Warhammer 40k

[Edward "Caesar" Sallow]

GW should copy WotC and MTG: Arena with an online game that copies the gameplay of the tabletop. Because that's another barrier of play, having to build and paint the models.

As much as a 1-to-1 Warhammer game would be a good way to get people into the hobby, it would probably cut into sales. Programs like Tabletop Sim and Battlescribe are niche extensions of the game that really don't hurt sales.
If they made this, it would either be a decent $60 simulator that could take away from sales as why play IRL when you could play for a fraction of the cost on your computer, or a freemium hellscape that would probably make them little money compared to what they invested into it.

The reason why card games work so well online is because it is a direct copy of the IRL experience. You get the randomness of the card packs with the experience of deck building and competitve gameplay. It's a low risk design model that works well.

With basic infantry for any army being ~$60, it's not worth it to Geedubs to hurt their own buisiness model when they can charge for models, books, paints, and paint/game supplies.

 

[The tired cat]

And back to my previous point about the idiots they unintentionally drew into the space refusing to touch anything else, their game systems Daggerheart and Candela Obscura both bombed because they weren't D&D 5th edition.

Well that and from what I looked up both systems are kinda "meh", specially Candela Obscura which was like Blades in the Dark, but they cut out lots of good stuff from it.

 

[Failed Lurker]

The Battlesector game is pretty much tabletop for pc/console if anyone is looking for one. Campaign is set at the end of the Devestation of Baal and a conquest style mode where you battle two other factions. Blood Angels, Tyranids, Imp Guard, Sisters, Necrons, Khorne daemons, Orks and Tau available but not sure which ones are free/paid for as was gifted them.

 

[AncientPhosphur]

GW should copy WotC and MTG: Arena with an online game that copies the gameplay of the tabletop. Because that's another barrier of play, having to build and paint the models.

I want this hobby to be difficult for the normies to access. I don’t want easy access. That leads to BS like a demand for female space marines… which we are probably getting anyway in a few months

 

[p1138]

Well that and from what I looked up both systems are kinda "meh", specially Candela Obscura which was like Blades in the Dark, but they cut out lots of good stuff from it.

Sure, but you'd think with such a massive built in fanbase that would have taken off to some extent and it isn't like BitD is hard to play either. The fans I'm talking about that CR introduced are like people who want an Apple product because they want to be seen with an Apple product and not something from Lenovo, Samsung, etc. and would rather go without than even attempt something different even if they might get a better experience from it(especially when it comes to TTRPGs because games can fit different niches)

As much as a 1-to-1 Warhammer game would be a good way to get people into the hobby, it would probably cut into sales. Programs like Tabletop Sim and Battlescribe are niche extensions of the game that really don't hurt sales.
If they made this, it would either be a decent $60 simulator that could take away from sales as why play IRL when you could play for a fraction of the cost on your computer, or a freemium hellscape that would probably make them little money compared to what they invested into it.

The reason why card games work so well online is because it is a direct copy of the IRL experience. You get the randomness of the card packs with the experience of deck building and competitve gameplay. It's a low risk design model that works well.

With basic infantry for any army being ~$60, it's not worth it to Geedubs to hurt their own buisiness model when they can charge for models, books, paints, and paint/game supplies.

It's also a much easier ask to sell packs for a couple bucks each online or lead people along with rewards for extended playtime when they're already used to that experience in person as being a base part of the game. GW couldn't get away with charging for individual units in an online game and make the kind of money they do off of the hobby as it currently exists(we're also talking about a company afraid of free rules and overcharging for books still).

I want this hobby to be difficult for the normies to access. I don’t want easy access. That leads to BS like a demand for female space marines… which we are probably getting anyway in a few months

Also this. People can play 40k or any other GW game for free on tabletop sim right now if they wanted to, but it takes a minor amount of effort so they don't. My concern isn't the cost coming down and letting the poors in, it's not wanting to deal with people putting no effort into their army on the table(I'm not a paint snob either but keep the gray or primer'd shit at home till you get a couple colors on it). It's not difficult to access as it is, but there's no instant gratification and that's a good thing. Finding people new to 40k and throwing tantrums because they don't have a 50% win rate by their 10th game is annoying already, don't want more of that and all of the political shit they'd drag into it.

 

[The tired cat]

That leads to BS like a demand for female space marines… which we are probably getting anyway in a few months

Wankers been saying that since last year. May wanna finally change that vinyl to a new one.

 

[Mr Clark]

Quoting multiple posts on phone is ass so I'll try and respond to a few tppics all at once.

30k
Thanks for some of the info. If I had a lot more money I might dabble since they have very different units (10k years of difference) but it seems a bit too marine heavy for me, even if IF get Warders, who need a 40k version. Seriously GW, big tower shields with built in rifles? Made for the yellow boys. Id field as many as I could and never move off the objective.

Barrier to entry and casuals
Ehhhh the cost is a big enough barrier for normies. I know femstodes made an appearance (which hasnt had a model effect) and everyone jokes about female space marines but that will just be new units for sisters, not real marines imo.
Cawl will concoct something that makes the process (or similar process) work on women and to make it 'safe' for the fandom, they will give it to sisters. Theyll be what Retributors should be, the heavy weapon team. Which I will buy. Hell yeah lets stop making sisters a horde army.

Cost
I'm gonna sound like a bit of a dickhead but cost is kinda fine to me. Besides the aforementioned barrier to entry to stop normies, i think its just a mental block. I was put off 40k (and historical tabletop, which im desperate to do at some point) as a kid because my pocket money couldnt handle the cost. For the longest time that stuck with me. But im in my 30s and earn big boy money. Over time, yeah the cost looks big, but its something you do over time.

 

[MG-34]

GW should copy WotC and MTG: Arena with an online game that copies the gameplay of the tabletop. Because that's another barrier of play, having to build and paint the models.

I think RTS games are the best way to break 40k into the digital space. Something like the orginal Dawn of War but on a larger scale, and do Aircraft right instead of that really half assed measure they did in Soulstorm. The video games should allow fans to do what they can't do on table top, like have a 20,000 point game take place in real time and not in two days like an Apocalypse match.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

I really don't see why there can't be room for both a direct tabletop clone and RTS games. I really don't believe there is much crossover between video game players and hobbyists. Someone who is just interested in the game and wants a convenient want to get right into the action isn't going to convert to building and painting models just to do it. And yes, Tabletop Sim is definitely an option and requires minimal effort now compared to how it used to be. But it's also reliant on a lot of good will from fans and not official support from a large company like GW. If ForceOrg, FTC, New Recruit, Yellowscribe, BSData, or even Tabletop Sim shut down you have to wait for someone to come along and replace them, or try to take it on yourself. That's assuming GW lawyers never get involved and shut the whole thing down for good.

Obviously it'll never be as monetized as selling paints, but if you whisper the magic words "live service" into their ear I promise they'll listen. It could be "free to play" but only give you a Space Marine and Leviathan Combat Patrol just to get you started. If you want to play an army maybe you need to buy the codex and that code gives you access. In a game like 40k where customization is everything you could make a fortune depending on how scummy you want to cut up every little cosmetic for your units. Different skins, poses, colors, emblems, bases, effects, you name it. And although it would be perfect to steal the model painter from Moonbreaker to let you paint your own 3D models, even I don't believe that would ever happen. Battle passes would keep players engaged to grind out dumb shit like avatars, profile banners, dice skins or whatever. They're basically free to make and whales love that shit. They'll pay at least $5+ just to have a stupid title next to their name.

If the argument is just that we can do it and we can monetize it but we need to gatekeep retards, I don't believe pricing them out is going to do it. You don't want to play with people who don't prime their models, and they think you're too stuck up. Let's just make separate play spaces then where GW can milk retards for money and the rest can be happy playing with plastic. They already have major influence over the hobby despite not playing the game or owning any models. That battle is already lost so I don't believe making the game more accessible is going to have any real impact on tourism or gay shit. The only way you protect your hobby is with a strong community that doesn't tolerate it. Even if someone can buy in, if you make it clear they aren't welcome in any spaces they'll leave. It's what they've been doing for over a decade now and it provably works.

 

[Humble Architect]

I want this hobby to be difficult for the normies to access. I don’t want easy access. That leads to BS like a demand for female space marines… which we are probably getting anyway in a few months

(Laughs in based half-breed)

It ain’t gonna happen, marines are the money. They can fuck with the other factions because their base is smaller. Plus even if they did, it’d be loyalist (cucks) getting enriched. Further proving that Horus did nothing wrong.

What we’ll get in a few months is the new version of the yiffers.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

There was a FOMO section. "Get it before it's gone!" Felt a bit scummy. The Horus Heresy box set was there. I don't know if that means it's being dropped as a game. Also there was a Blood Bowl set in there. I had no idea that existed. I through GW dropped their specialist games a while ago.

Supposedly HH3 is coming sometime in the nearish future. That would be why the HH2 boxed set is in FOMO.

 

[Humble Architect]

Supposedly HH3 is coming sometime in the nearish future.

This, 3.0 is nigh. It’s why there’s a new pack-in transfer sheet for all plastic kits with Iron Warriors and Salamander transfers.

Like how the IF and SoH got the push in 2.0, the Ultras and WB during the Calth box era and the SW and TS during Prospero. They even did the command squad up in IW colours for the product shots.

MKII and Saturine Termies is the rumour. MKII has been teased since 2.0 (vehicle gunner), the 40k Dark Angel update and Argel Tal’s model.

 

[Catboi]

I'm still annoyed at how much GW has been pushing Genestealers recently. It's only finally slowed down but I have not met a single person who actually plays who gives a shit about them. (And also making one of the new named characters for the faction an ugly black woman lmfao. It's like they WANT people to ignore that faction.)

 

[TheJelqster]

What we’ll get in a few months is the new version of the yiffers.

Yiffers being Space Wolves, correct?

 

[p1138]

Yiffers being Space Wolves, correct?

Yes, the space yiffers.

 

[TheJelqster]

View attachment 7101205
Yes, the space yiffers.

About fucking time, I've been waiting for the new models

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

Last time I was in one, I mentioned I was an EC adherent, we talked about the then upcoming range and I casually mentioned that “I hope they don’t pull a World Eaters and gimp the army” which that bootlicker immediately took offence that I considered the WE incomplete and half-assed.

I was a little crabby when I saw the EC leaks, and going through the codex I'm still baffled that they ripped out so much stuff. No Preds, Vindicators, Helbrutes, cultists, bikes, Possessed, Raptors/Talons, or Havocs, only two daemon engines and five daemons available...I was really excited about getting to mess around with stuff like Venomcrawlers and Possessed in my army, too.

 

[Humble Architect]

I was a little crabby when I saw the EC leaks, and going through the codex I'm still baffled that they ripped out so much stuff. No Preds, Vindicators, Helbrutes, cultists, bikes, Possessed, Raptors/Talons, or Havocs, only two daemon engines and five daemons available...I was really excited about getting to mess around with stuff like Venomcrawlers and Possessed in my army, too.

Raptors is the most egregious, outside of being my favorite (lore-wise) unit, there’s no reason the WE and EC would not have assault marines, both legions are known for being fast and fighty. An EC book that got reprinted has a fucking Slaanesh/EC Raptor Cult for fuck’s sake.

Love these guys, I get the TS and DG not having them, fatasses and Rubrics aren’t conducive to getting high off rocket fumes while diving into battle face-first.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Doesn't everyone hate Critical Role though.
At least each single instance I hear that gets brought up, it's followed by nothing but cursing and gnashing of teeth. I do not say this like a scuffaw who is indignant that his personal hobby (read: fiefdom) has become popular because of stuff like Stranger Things.
The other side are the Dungeon Meshi fans who assume I want to hear about trivia over an episode.

No.

Critical Role fans are hated on the internet, but my experience with them has been fine. It's a large disconnect between IRL/discord discourse, and what you see on public forums and YouTube. In the same way that, according to online 40k discourse, every other player is "that guy" who throws a tantrum when one of his custodes dies or having a tournament spec list is vital to even bother playing.

That said, the DnD fad with normies has past, and WotC has burned all the old fans chasing short term gains and pandering to the "modern audience". So much so that the game about exploring dungeons and killing dragons is about gay dwarf baristas and mexican orcs going to prom.

GW should copy WotC and MTG: Arena with an online game that copies the gameplay of the tabletop. Because that's another barrier of play, having to build and paint the models.

Fuck no.

First, there have been tabletop accurate games. Blood Bowl, Space Hulk, and I'm sure more. They don't really work that well as a tabletop accurate version is not the best way to present the material.

Second, WotC is doing the online games thing to try and milk franchises they killed. The MtG Xbox 360 game was fantastic. Baldurs Gate 3 was fantastic I'm told. WotC going all in on "virtual tabletop" is killing what little remains of the game. The idea is they want to have micro transactions and other crap. Can you imagine if GW could charge an extra 3.99 per guy to upgrade a guardsman to Krieg?

Cost
I'm gonna sound like a bit of a dickhead but cost is kinda fine to me. Besides the aforementioned barrier to entry to stop normies, i think its just a mental block. I was put off 40k (and historical tabletop, which im desperate to do at some point) as a kid because my pocket money couldnt handle the cost. For the longest time that stuck with me. But im in my 30s and earn big boy money. Over time, yeah the cost looks big, but its something you do over time.

It's hard for me to judge. PL, but I was hemming and hawing over buying something hobby related. I was told I'm being too tight fisted with my money when it comes to hobby. Though at the same time, people say I'm too loose with cash when I pay the hobby tax instead of buying online, or buy a bunch of stuff at once.

It's like the whole "You've gotta buy an airbrush" and "you gotta get a 3D printer" debates. "You'd save money if you just bought at airbrush. You can get a good one for £150, just get that, a fan, and some thinners and you'll save loads of money!". A rattlecan is £10. I need, what, 3 or 4 colours of spraypaint. A single rattlecan can do a whole army with paint to spare. I live in Britain where it rains half the time, and rains the other half, and even I can wait for clear weather to do some spraying. The cost just isn't worth it.

I've been buying a bunch of arts and crafts supplies for terrain building. PVA glue, stanley knife, that kind of thing. At this point I might have better off buying a bunch of MDF terrain and some wood glue. But at the same time, me paying for some cardboard buildings makes me seem like a mug because "it's only cardboard, what are you paying £40 for it for?". At the end of the day, the end result is kind of the same.

Point is, I find GW prices extortionate and hard to swollow. £45 for 5 terminators? £50 for a dreadnaught? Rip off. At the same time, someone spending almost £90 on 3 Tornado plane kits seems stupid to me.

View attachment 7101205
Yes, the space yiffers.

That's kind of sick. I had no idea these were a thing. They even have little ear vents. Then again, I was the kind of guy that liked the idea of those 3D printed "cat-achan" catgirl heads for guard so I guess I have no taste. I wonder if they do dinosaur helmets for Salamanders and Raptors (yes, I know Raptors are birds but shush).

 

[kalma]

Raptors is the most egregious, outside of being my favorite (lore-wise) unit, there’s no reason the WE and EC would not have assault marines, both legions are known for being fast and fighty. An EC book that got reprinted has a fucking Slaanesh/EC Raptor Cult for fuck’s sake.
View attachment 7101453
Love these guys, I get the TS and DG not having them, fatasses and Rubrics aren’t conducive to getting high off rocket fumes while diving into battle face-first.

we had a bunch of people interested once the word came out and subsequent preorder announcement.... until the codex leak.... think we lost two holds as people wanted to "think about it" first.

i'm newer to actually playing vs. just painting and collecting piles of sprues so haven't paid as much attention until more recent. what are the chances of a change to those decisions or addendum of units?