Warhammer 40k

[Love Machine]

This isn't a good example to give for a game that has "professional" and competitive play that is facilitated by the creators of the game. Between friends sure I can call you a dick for pressing the i win button and shame you but if money is on the line in a competitive setting it's going to come down to who presses the I win button first. Don't care about 10th problems because I only have 20 dusty suits of armor.

Spoiler: Fighting game cringe

Fighting game youtuber Core-A gaming made a video initially about the effects of getting tilted or "salt" in game but it quickly moves into a sort of breakdown of what fosters a competitive environment for something. Very reddit but his heavy hitters are very informative and succinct for newcomers to the genre. He directly mentions the idea of an I win button. While technically "fair", it betrays the veteran player who've acquired knowledge and skills over time and hinders creative innovation within the game itself.
Screen Recording 2025-09-05 141637.mp4

Magnus is BANNED from my table, buddy.

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

Dante being written as an /r9k/ sadboy is pretty funny.

Dante is Firstborn rather than Primaris which means that it's only a matter of time before he gets put in a Dreadnought that won't completely burn him out over a few mercifully short years

 

[Love Machine]

Dante is Firstborn rather than Primaris which means that it's only a matter of time before he gets put in a Dreadnought that won't completely burn him out over a few mercifully short years

He has been primaris for a bit now. He was planning on doing it in Darkness In the Blood and since has undergone the surgery.

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

He has been primaris for a bit now. He was planning on doing it in Darkness In the Blood and since has undergone the surgery.

I guess it sucks for him that he's a main character with 100% survival rate for the Rubicon Primaris

 

[Love Machine]

I guess it sucks for him that he's a main character with 100% survival rate for the Rubicon Primaris

From how he was talking about it in Darkness in the blood, he probably is in a better mood since he feels less old.

 

[daniel day]

There is a difference someone picking between terminators over some sort of better elite because you think theyre more fluffy for your list. Then to lobotomizing themselves because they have a fundamental problem with list building. Its not really an "i win button" its the basic theory behind list building this edition. If youre going to make up arbitrary list building rules then youre probably just better off playing an older edition. The idea of having a standardized set of rules is so you can actually play the game without having to argue amongst each other which house rules are legitimate and which one are tripe garbage. Its not the same as seeing a Knight army and knowing your army has no AP. Ofc its a none issue playing with friends because we can make up whatever rules we want. "Just play with your friends" has always been a lame excuse and really doesnt suit a game thats supposed to be social. Its essentially the design philosophy of 2 different game clashing, and my assumption is that they dont want it to be AOS with guns. I know they dont want force org anymore, but the road to fixing this would be restricting HQs based on detachment in my mind.

nigga just talk to the people you play with. Its not that fucking hard. I would not play a 3+ hour game with someone I hated talking to for 30 minutes. Autists would rather change an entire game state than have a regular group of friends smdh.

This isn't a good example to give for a game that has "professional" and competitive play that is facilitated by the creators of the game. Between friends sure I can call you a dick for pressing the i win button and shame you but if money is on the line in a competitive setting it's going to come down to who presses the I win button first. Don't care about 10th problems because I only have 20 dusty suits of armor.

Spoiler: Fighting game cringe

Fighting game youtuber Core-A gaming made a video initially about the effects of getting tilted or "salt" in game but it quickly moves into a sort of breakdown of what fosters a competitive environment for something. Very reddit but his heavy hitters are very informative and succinct for newcomers to the genre. He directly mentions the idea of an I win button. While technically "fair", it betrays the veteran player who've acquired knowledge and skills over time and hinders creative innovation within the game itself.
Screen Recording 2025-09-05 141637.mp4

Comp and the people that play it are gay and cringe. Tournament play also accounts for a tiny fraction of 40k players anyway.

By the "I win" button thing Im talking about your own personal choices, not what someone else can do to you. If you're making the game unfun for yourself then stop playing like that. If someone else wont stop using the "I win" button, then stop playing with that guy.

 

[Love Machine]

nigga just talk to the people you play with. Its not that fucking hard. I would not play a 3+ hour game with someone I hated talking to for 30 minutes. Autists would rather change an entire game state than have a regular group of friends smdh.

You can not talk someone into owning 1000 extra points of none hq models so we can not play hero hammer. Again, poison for pick up games.

 

[p1138]

nigga just talk to the people you play with. Its not that fucking hard. I would not play a 3+ hour game with someone I hated talking to for 30 minutes. Autists would rather change an entire game state than have a regular group of friends smdh.

Comp and the people that play it are gay and cringe. Tournament play also accounts for a tiny fraction of 40k players anyway.

By the "I win" button thing Im talking about your own personal choices, not what someone else can do to you. If you're making the game unfun for yourself then stop playing like that. If someone else wont stop using the "I win" button, then stop playing with that guy.

You're expecting social skills out of 40k nerds.

You can not talk someone into owning 1000 extra points of none hq models so we can not play hero hammer. Again, poison for pick up games.

Who the hell only has 1000 points worth of characters and then only 1000 points of non characters/HQs? Even ignoring the ratio of characters to other units, who the hell isn't new and only has 2000 points for an army? A lot of people, including people who play comp would be more than happy to find out their next opponent for a game at the local store isn't going to be playing some all comers do everything tournament list so they can actually see some other models they've painted on the table that may not be the most optimal thing ever, or even just a list with a different playstyle focus.

Sounds like more excuses to not play.

 

[Love Machine]

Who the hell only has 1000 points worth of characters and then only 1000 points of non characters/HQs? Even ignoring the ratio of characters to other units, who the hell isn't new and only has 2000 points for an army? A lot of people, including people who play comp would be more than happy to find out their next opponent for a game at the local store isn't going to be playing some all comers do everything tournament list so they can actually see some other models they've painted on the table that may not be the most optimal thing ever, or even just a list with a different playstyle focus.

I dont know about the people in your area but people usually just bring tjr list theyre gonna play for the day. Not their entire collection to create a bespoke list on the spot.

 

[Rimanah]

Where are you even finding people running 1k+ points of heroes these days? Even the most Hero heavy lists thats are popular right now rarely break 600-700. I think only a Magnus-Coven list will regularly break 900. Maybe pre-nerf variants of knights and Morty-DG, but the latter wasn’t too popular compared to more tanks afaik
Going too hard on heroes just screws you over in OC and action doers in most armies, meaning you tend to lose the mission.

 

[p1138]

I dont know about the people in your area but people usually just bring tjr list theyre gonna play for the day. Not their entire collection to create a bespoke list on the spot.

So talk to people before showing up at the store? Fuck, I almost never just randomly show up to the store with a list just hoping to get in a game that may or may not happen. Do it regularly enough and as @daniel day said you can even make friends in the process.

Where are you even finding people running 1k+ points of heroes these days? Even the most Hero heavy lists thats are popular right now rarely break 600-700. I think only a Magnus-Coven list will regularly break 900. Maybe pre-nerf variants of knights and Morty-DG, but the latter wasn’t too popular compared to more tanks afaik
Going too hard on heroes just screws you over in OC and action doers in most armies, meaning you tend to lose the mission.

Also this. Who the hell wants to be wasting a bunch of 150+ point characters just to do a secondary? Also the example even given of Lemartes, Mephiston, Dante, captain, and 2 jump pack captains in a list isn't even 600 points either while already being incredibly character heavy.

 

[daniel day]

Maybe Im the exception, but if Im playing a 3+ hour game with someone with an entire fucking brick of rules to follow, then Ive got their number or their socials or something. Why would you play with some complete rando. Nah, if someones touching models Ive spent hours and hours painting and building or whatever I want to make sure they're not a complete asshole.

You're expecting social skills out of 40k nerds.

My bad apparently. God forbid I expect a level of decorem out of people that rises to the standard of a 3rd grader making friends.

 

[Rimanah]

Maybe Im the exception, but if Im playing a 3+ hour game with someone with an entire fucking brick of rules to follow, then Ive got their number or their socials or something. Why would you play with some complete rando. Nah, if someones touching models Ive spent hours and hours painting and building or whatever I want to make sure they're not a complete asshole.

Eh, I understand their point on this. A ton of FLGS have open nights where people show up with a list hoping to get a game. Not my personal preference tbh, but it is a thing.

Tournies fit that bill too obviously, but after a little while you tend to know the people in your local scene/on the same circuit.

 

[Humble Architect]

This is literally me btw. Its fucking over

Looks mean nothing, all you need is confidence (and a warband) but confidence is key bro.

Real Traitor-lifters don’t let looks bother them. This ugly son of a bitch is slamming. Curze’s dick may not work (canon lol) but that’s because he was willing it not to. Retain semen to hone your psyker-potential to reshape reality.

 

[Love Machine]

So talk to people before showing up at the store? Fuck, I almost never just randomly show up to the store with a list just hoping to get in a game that may or may not happen. Do it regularly enough and as @daniel day said you can even make friends in the process.

My local shop does a lot of pick up games on friday nights and sats. Guess its just a difference of area.

Why would you play with some complete rando.

Its fun to meet new people?

Also this. Who the hell wants to be wasting a bunch of 150+ point characters just to do a secondary? Also the example even given of Lemartes, Mephiston, Dante, captain, and 2 jump pack captains in a list isn't even 600 points either while already being incredibly character heavy.

The 2 games I played were against a DG player, who is a middling player (so maybe he just brought a schitzo list, but does regularly play 10th). Who had morty, a DP, and a handful of the random deathguard hqs adding up to about 800 points, rest was just a handful of deathshroud squads and bombards. Then I had an Eldar player (who cares enough to try and be good at the game) bring a list that included like every single phoenix lord and ulthran, Now granted eldar units are cheap enough that the rest of the army looked normal, and was a more engaging game. But still a too hero hammery for my taste. Which is mostly the sentiment I wanted to get across the most. in that list building seems like its about hero maxxing, combo'd with whatever units they need to be around it. Then you fill in with a couple of squads that actually do things by themselves. then you have something that chills on the back objective and/or exists to screen some deep strikes. I can only imagine what something like guard or tyranid lists look like now. If you guys like hero hammer thats one thing. I just think the list building is a little bland and having so many heros running around makes the games a little silly.

 

[p1138]

My local shop does a lot of pick up games on friday nights and sats. Guess its just a difference of area.

I never said my shop didn't. I simply said I don't show up randomly with a list. You can communicate with people ahead of time and schedule a game, as well as discuss expectations of the game. Even if you're showing up on those Friday and Saturday nights, you can still end up friends with people. If you just show up on the weekend without talking to anyone, of course they're likely to only have their current best list on them.

 

[Rimanah]

The 2 games I played were against a DG player, who is a middling player (so maybe he just brought a schitzo list, but does regularly play 10th). Who had morty, a DP, and a handful of the random deathguard hqs adding up to about 800 points, rest was just a handful of deathshroud squads and bombards. Then I had an Eldar player (who cares enough to try and be good at the game) bring a list that included like every single phoenix lord and ulthra

If the DG list was like what I think it likely was, a variant of the Morty-Champions of contagion list you see every so often, it’s among the most hero heavy lists you see these days. Knights and CK are really the only thing that regularly exceeds it in terms of points on characters vs points on troops ratio, but that’s obviously a very different beast.

Which is mostly the sentiment I wanted to get across the most. in that list building seems like its about hero maxxing, combo'd with whatever units they need to be around it

Not really. The way scoring and missions works this edition you need a good brick of scoring units, you’ll have far more success building a solid brick of say Rubrics or Necron Warriors and marching them up the table with proper support than trying to build some sort of 5th ed or late-7th ed type Death Star. Even the most hero heavy lists like 1k sons covens still invests heavily into rubrics, Tzangors and Mutaliths.

Honestly, this edition is more combined arms hammer than anything imo. Tons of lists rely upon a solid core of vehicles/monsters backed up by scoring infantry.

 

[Love Machine]

I never said my shop didn't. I simply said I don't show up randomly with a list. You can communicate with people ahead of time and schedule a game, as well as discuss expectations of the game. Even if you're showing up on those Friday and Saturday nights, you can still end up friends with people. If you just show up on the weekend without talking to anyone, of course they're likely to only have their current best list on them.

Yea bro that cool, all im saying is my scene is mostly pick up games with no scheduling. So making a list around house rules is not really realistic. I think the only people who actually do that around here is when we want to play heresy or when someone wants to play a knight list.

Not really. The way scoring and missions works this edition you need a good brick of scoring units, you’ll have far more success building a solid brick of say Rubrics or Necron Warriors and marching them up the table with proper support than trying to build some sort of 5th ed or late-7th ed type Death Star. Even the most hero heavy lists like 1k sons covens still invests heavily into rubrics, Tzangors and Mutaliths.

Honestly, this edition is more combined arms hammer than anything imo. Tons of lists rely upon a solid core of vehicles/monsters backed up by scoring infantry.

Well then hopefully my first impression is off the mark. We will see, thankfully there arent a ton of death guard armies flying around the local meta, a decent amount of TS though, will worry about that. The eldar did seem fun though so I might take few lists of them with my buddy's models though.

 

[Mr Clark]

Im not necessarily pro hero hammer, but I do think there should be a penalty for not attaching a leader to a unit, making leadership (or the concept of it) impactful.

Yeah you can have cheap scoring units, but they should suffer from lack of leadership. Less movement, worse save etc.

Also makes precision more impactful.

Anyway, talking out my arse but its a thought thats crossed my mind a few times.ĺ

 

[Love Machine]

Im not necessarily pro hero hammer, but I do think there should be a penalty for not attaching a leader to a unit, making leadership (or the concept of it) impactful.

Yeah you can have cheap scoring units, but they should suffer from lack of leadership. Less movement, worse save etc.

Also makes precision more impactful.

Anyway, talking out my arse but its a thought thats crossed my mind a few times.ĺ

Death to hero hammer!

My favorite use for the morale tests were always pinning tests. Always felt so fluffy to me. Especially in HH 1.0 with the Iron warrior's delicious shrapnel bolts.