Purple fur Pomeranian
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So Games workshop just got caught using AI according to Spikey bits.
Warhammer 40k
- Thread starter Great Unclean Chris
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Yeah even if it cost more to do so, they could pass that onto the consumer and people would still be happier about it.
Could also do 'em random and just call them freeblades since that's a thing among knights. Outside of a couple of houses, knight lore is so thin it's kind of irrelevant.
You've got more text in the tracker link than your entire post. I'll help you out since a: that's a tracker b: it's fucking spikeybits
They're claiming the double goggles is evidence of using AI art, and that may be so. But it's some seasonal marketing bullshit on their marketing website, I doubt anyone actually cares. This is like the people screeching about coca-cola doing the AI christmas commercials 2 years in a row, basically giving coca-cola free exposure for the sake of complaining about them.
Mr Clark
kiwifarms.net
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- Mar 7, 2022
They do it with models (pissed at myself for not getting 3 of the old school Noise Marines) every so often, nothing stopping thek doing it with books.
Pure speculation: theyve fucked up rights with the authors and lack the right to republish them. Its always the same 12-15 books in HH they reprint and typically by the normal authors.
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- Aug 23, 2018
There's also more potentially damning stuff in the article, but no proof. The lack of an editor and their proof of AI is stilted sentences and the overuse of dashes. They also showed a photoshop (not AI imo) of a space marine model with the head swapped out for a female head.
The dumbest part is complaining about using AI to build an optimized list. The idea that AI lists should be banned seems retarded because how can you prove that? Also, last I checked, 40k was a war game, meaning there should be more to a game than the list. I don't know how heavy 40k is based on list building.
A rant I've made about DnD that might not extend to 40k, but it should and most likely does.
Theory crafting fails in DnD because it assumes a single optimized build, and assumes straight combat in open terrain. My go to example is the claim that druids are OP because they can turn into a t-rex and trivialize any encounter. Except they can't. A t-rex doesn't work for a murder mystery, or a stealth mission, or in a confined space, or if the enemy has a wizard.
I don't follow 40k META and tournaments at all, and yet even I've heard a few. Knights are OP, but I also hear they are trash if the player brings any kind of anti-tank. I remember my infantry guard army I was casually building was considered stupid, until there was some big tournament win, and suddenly there was a bunch of comments saying how they're selling their army and going inf guard.
These might not be the best examples as they're both skew lists, but the point is that using AI to build a list optimized on paper might give you a leg up, but that's no different than someone taking a list from Reddit.
Not to hype K47 too much, but I keep hearing how, at least right now, there isn't really a meta. The game hasn't been "solved" yet, and even fluffy lists are working because a lot of the game comes down to dice, and how the units are played at the table.
I keep hearing on YT they're going to do a special anniversary re-release of 5th, but I find that to be wishful thinking.
Small hobby update. Got the armature mostly built. Just the arms to go. I've made the key parts, (legs, hips, torso) but not glued them together to avoid obvious painting traps, like painting behind the head or behind the crotch sheild. But I'm going to build and finish 1 first to see if there's any trouble stops that are less obvious. The ability to swap the arms and top weapon out without gluing is neat. I assumed GW would force you to make a choice or faff around with magnats.
I also love the fit and finish of the kit. No obvious seams and panels go together like a dream.
Tempted to go blue, white, and gold as a colour scheme, as I like it but never get to use it. Bolt action is a bit drab. K47 I could but doesn't fit the weird war 2 aesthetic, and SM it's just Ultramarines.
That works. As said, will likely call them imperial renegades and make them a heavy in my proxy guard headcanon. The short version being there was a successful coup, but the imperium leaves them mostly alone as they're out of the way they pay their tithes on time. But I can run them against imperial players with an obvious excuse.
There was a big tournament a little while back where some guy showed up with 200 guard models and won, because nobody had enough of anything to deal with it since no one had been running hordes for basically the entire edition.
Considering most AI hallucinates random shit and regarding 40k usually mixes up editions as well, I wouldn't bother trying to have an AI come up with a list. And yeah, it'll have the exact some issue as copying someone else's tournament list, you've got the units doesn't mean you know how to run the list.
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- Oct 2, 2017
"Using AI", I always think of writing up something quickly with the right pointers and having AI fill out the holes. What actually using AI is to these people, clearly, is to go "write an article about x and y" and just posting it. Like, it can take 5 mins to 2 hours to write and prepare an article. Using a total of 35 mins with AI and covering your tracks is still better. You're not meant to go from 2 hours on average to 5 mins with AI. It's a tool. It's the fact people think you can do this that is the most offensive; not the fact they use AI at all.
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- Jan 3, 2023
assembled a 2nd box of space cops, cranked this out, i'm full scatterbrain mode and only painting on whimsy
Mr Clark
kiwifarms.net
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- Mar 7, 2022
I love skew lists because its incredibly anti-meta which means games arent based on who min-maxed a list but skill.
Plus, skew lists usually result in the user having a good time win, lose or draw.
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- Jan 13, 2018
Skew lists are the opposite of fun because they're decided before the game even starts. Either you've got enough anti-whatever to deal with the skew and you win or you don't and you lose; there's very little fun to be had on either side playing out the foregone conclusion. It's Knights' perennial problem as a gatekeeper just as much as it applies to hordes.
Yeah, I hate to tell you this but skew lists basically are "min-maxing" taking 200 guard, 200 nids, that's a skew. Taking all t12+ vehicles is a skew. For the horde you're counting on your opponent not having enough attacks to deal with it(not necessarily kill it, but at least control objectives). And high toughness, you're just hoping your opponent can't wound with much of anything on other than a 6+ besides their dedicated anti tank. Taking multiple bricks of those black templar units that can output 100+ melee attacks hitting on 3s is another form of skew but that's offensive rather than defensive.
Meanwhile a normal "meta" list will usually have a couple of screening units, a couple of action monkeys, something to sit on an objective in no man's land, a little anti tank, something that can clear a big unit of chaff, etc. or be focused on a hammer and anvil type of situation but still needs things to hold a home objective, maybe screen, etc.
The guy even admits the only opponent he was actually afraid of having the volume of fire to do something about his horde, was the thousand sons player he had to play twice in rounds 6 and then a shadowround for the 7th game. If you look at the lists this guy played against, you'll see what I mean about basically being all-rounder any comer type of lists that are a generalist army that can deal with most things besides horde armies. The only reason the guy won vs the thousand sons player, which he had even played that same matchup the previous week, was by not engaging to get overwatched and annihilated with flamer shots as well as reactive fire.
The idea that people are taking "min max" lists as some kind of regular meta, which would usually be considered a skew(hence maximizing something) regularly to big tournaments is absurd. Especially for a horde skew as these tournaments use clocks are generally only allow 2.5-3 hours per game split evenly between players, and even with movement trays a lot of people can't play quickly enough for that to work just due to having 90 minutes alone without clocking themselves.
Knights are certainly a skew, but generally speaking most normal lists do have some units that can take out 1-2 a turn, which can very quickly mean that knight player is losing 400 point models and after a couple rounds of that their board presence is basically destroyed due to not having enough models remaining to do anything(custodes are in a similar boat with all of their t6+ nonsense that ends up being 340-380 point 6 man units).
edit: I suppose you could call a jailer army like blood angels with jump packs a skew in a way, as they're tough-ish while being fast and the initial objective is to trap your opponent on their side of the board preferably in their DZ, but that's a gamble and if it doesn't work or they manage to break out you kinda screw yourself.
Also, taking horde or tough vehicle(like knights) skew lists to a casual game is kinda bad too unless you know the opponent is actually pretty decent. It's still possible with a horde that they just may not have enough volume of attacks to do anything about it, and a high toughness list a newer player even if they have some anti tank may not understand target prioritization and simply committing to killing things to actually make a dent in it. Plus if you're not quick about playing your horde list, now your opponent that may not have the volume of fire is sitting around doing nothing for most of a 5 hour game(unless you're also using a clock, which some people do as it's simply good practice but still).
Also there's guard vehicle skew, but you also run the risk of traffic jamming yourself with that, so at least it has a tradeoff.
edit again: To make it even more clear why a skew like this sucks to play against. It's guard, lets assume 200 1w models. So you need 200 wounds to go through. Because of their rules most of those will be saving on a 3+. So you need 266 wounds before saves. To even get that 266 wounds, assuming you wound on a 3+ that's 353 successful hits needed. To get 353 successful hits assuming you hit on a 3+ that's 470 attacks required assuming there's no terrain so everything is in LoS the entire time(because this horde army can still shoot back, but your own units still need full LoS), your models are all in range to shoot, your units can even shoot or charge because they aren't doing secondaries or any additional actions for mission requirements, and since that's just an average of hitting and wounding on 3s you could still roll badly for hits and wounds while they roll hot for saves, and they don't have any kind of FNP or other defensive boosts(like a -1 to hit), and we're assuming there's no multi wound models for that main pile of models, and you don't lose any of your own units when this horde shoots at you because it'll make trying to kill them all even more difficult. and even that's still ignoring 26 models in the list because it was just easier to start at 200.
And since there's a lot of battleline in the list with OC2, even if you can't kill them and just have them swarm you at objectives their combined OC 20-40 per unit(plus characters) will mean you won't control the objectives either. Plus because of their really high model count, they can move block your units so while melee would have an easier time(due to ap -1 not just getting negated by cover) the horde player can wrap the melee units and limit how many of your models can actually engage during the fight phase as well unless you can fall back and charge again(which is usually only a unit or two at a time).
Also, because the guy is just spamming battleline, having a force org chart doesn't fix the situation either and could actually make it worse for other armies.
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- Feb 17, 2021
From what I recall this is not what happened, SODAZ himself had to clarify that it was the fans that drove him away from 40k content creation. I'm sure someone has the screencap, he addressed it personally on Discord or Twitter, one of his social medias, I don't recall exactly which.
It was linked in the community post
https://youtube.com/watch?v=31I90eL3sTA
Hi Arch. Please make an account and say hello. Trust us, they won't think you're any MORE of a nazi by joining us.
Also, this must have pissed someone off, cause someone at GW got ahold of SODAZ and he posted this in his community feed, in English:
Basically "GW contacted me recently and it was just a mistake. Also, Toxic fans are toxic!"
And apparently Valrak is doing damage control based on the latter?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWWOKBw_KVs
So yeah. Arch found out and poked the beehive, and GW went into full damage...
Hi Arch. Please make an account and say hello. Trust us, they won't think you're any MORE of a nazi by joining us.
Also, this must have pissed someone off, cause someone at GW got ahold of SODAZ and he posted this in his community feed, in English:
Basically "GW contacted me recently and it was just a mistake. Also, Toxic fans are toxic!"
And apparently Valrak is doing damage control based on the latter?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWWOKBw_KVs
So yeah. Arch found out and poked the beehive, and GW went into full damage...
Reactions:
x 6
x 6
GW wanted to hire him at the same time as the Astartes animation guy, GW slacked off for a bit, moron fans shit on SODAZ(death threats and shit) till he got fed up with it and fortunately didn't quit animation entirely. Had the fans not fucked up he'd have had a professional team helping him work on shit like the Astartes guy who did some work on the secret level episode, is working on another astartes series, and so on.
Mr Clark
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2022
Im going to respectfully disagree with the skew list hate.
Meta lists take a little of everything to counter everything. Points need to be efficient. Dont take x model because y does it slightly better.
Skew lists are fuck that, im running 1-3 things (usually horde) because its fun and I want to. I dont care if model is overcosted or inefficient.
I will always side with the fun argument and it forces the opponent to think on their feet rather than go through the motions. Yeah tank spam can be annoying but thats less models to score points with. Knights are knights, what can you do.
Meta lists take a little of everything to counter everything. Points need to be efficient. Dont take x model because y does it slightly better.
Skew lists are fuck that, im running 1-3 things (usually horde) because its fun and I want to. I dont care if model is overcosted or inefficient.
I will always side with the fun argument and it forces the opponent to think on their feet rather than go through the motions. Yeah tank spam can be annoying but thats less models to score points with. Knights are knights, what can you do.
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- Jan 13, 2018
This strikes me as conflating playing casually with skewing, when they're on separate axes. A takes-all-comers list can also be made casually - pre-10e, it was more or less explicitly encouraged by the rules in the form of FOCs/detachments suggesting you take a little bit of everything after paying the troop tax, which isn't generally going to make a spectacular army unless handled with care, and it's very easy for people to end up with a mixed assortment of units through a Start Collecting here and a Battleforce there without the focus or optimisation that a more competitive list would see. Meanwhile, a competitively-minded player going for a skew is deliberately making a counter-meta play, observing the state of the local (or expected tournament) meta and wagering that enough lists can be expected not to have sufficient answers to handle the skew - that's where you saw the 200 Guardsmen see quite a bit of success into a meta where even takes-all-comers lists were skewing towards anti-tank and away from high volume fire. It's a considered choice above the meta, or meta-meta if you will. Sometimes the gamble will be wrong and the player will face an extreme uphill battle every game, but there's always some meta theory behind it.
For all that this and my last post have implied that this moves the win or loss to the listbuilding and that is true with perfect play, I will admit that there's still a lot of execution to it in practice and that horde players that manage time pressure well in particular deserve significant kudos - it takes some confidence to decide correctly when the expected chip damage from firing off a round of lasguns isn't worth the precious seconds ticking down on your chess clock, for starters.
ETA: And, of course, it might require more active thought from an opponent than a more practised line, as you say, but that mostly just translates to being a gatekeeper - those who know how to handle the skew do so as best their lists can handle and those who don't either work it out on the fly or have a miserable time.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2021
Ah cool. Sorry, didn't have the attention span to go all the way back to check. Been in the hospital til earlier today so I appreciate the TL;DR.It was linked in the community post
https://youtube.com/watch?v=31I90eL3sTA
Hi Arch. Please make an account and say hello. Trust us, they won't think you're any MORE of a nazi by joining us.
Also, this must have pissed someone off, cause someone at GW got ahold of SODAZ and he posted this in his community feed, in English:
Basically "GW contacted me recently and it was just a mistake. Also, Toxic fans are toxic!"
And apparently Valrak is doing damage control based on the latter?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWWOKBw_KVs
So yeah. Arch found out and poked the beehive, and GW went into full damage...Reactions:
GW wanted to hire him at the same time as the Astartes animation guy, GW slacked off for a bit, moron fans shit on SODAZ(death threats and shit) till he got fed up with it and fortunately didn't quit animation entirely. Had the fans not fucked up he'd have had a professional team helping him work on shit like the Astartes guy who did some work on the secret level episode, is working on another astartes series, and so on.
A take all comers type of list is usually what the competitive people are taking yes. But that's also a perfectly reasonable list to take to a casual game, even if it's not entirely as points efficient.
Taking a skew list to a tournament or casual game like I said is going to have similar issues, especially for a horde skew. Your claim was that because someone takes a skew list the game isn't predetermined, yet with a horde skew list is basically is except in some rare scenarios. Even a high toughness vehicle skew list can predetermine the outcome of a game, again just by looking at what the opponent has and seeing if they even have an answer to it. That sort of list building will be more likely to predetermine a game before armies get deployed than anything else.
Sure I mentioned that there are a couple melee units that can output 80-100 attacks, but if those units can only engage a couple units of guardsmen at a time then having that many attacks isn't even relevant to dealing with the skew either.
The guys that do well at big events, sure they're more likely to be able to work around your horde skew. The guys who show up at the local RTT and end up going 1-2 or winning wooden spoons probably won't unless they were list tailoring against your horde in advance. And the randos who don't even do that will likely have an even worse time, unless again for some reason they're list tailoring. Now that's fine if you ask them to do so because you want a challenge, or warn them about it. But you're not going to be getting many pick up games if you're repeatedly showing up with an utterly miserable army to play against.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
The Rose In Anger: Danie Ware
This was a decent conclusion of the last books arc, but it's probably the weakest in terms of combat writing. The setup is great and it's a fun ride, but I feel like it was a bit bit clunky at certain parts. (The sisters not immediately opening fire on the big bad and letting him monologue for a bit.)
Our heroes are suspect for getting mind probed by a psyker, so of course the best way to prove loyalty is to survive a hopeless suicide mission. The big bad of the last book was cocky muscle for a heretical cogboy, who spent years building a makeshift servitor army using neglected resources on planet shithole.
The Rose order actually comes down in full force to take him out, so we get some cool convoy vehicle montages with preaching included
Cogboy has base with a protective shield, so the leads sneak in while the main force launches a distraction assault. I like that they emphasize they have to quickly take this place out before chaos ships arrive. They don't have air support beyond a handful of jump pack Soritas and a light cruiser in orbit.
The final fight could have a been a bit better but it was cool how the villain creatively used hordes of laser servo skulls like fin funnels. Imperial guard survivors also play a neat role in the story as well.
winderson_silva
kiwifarms.net
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- Feb 14, 2021
So I started replaying RDR 2 on PC during my break, and I think it shows how bad the load times in Space Marine 2 are. Sure, it is an older game, but it is clearly better optimized, even in private play or the campaign; the loadings in SM2 are really annoying, meanwhile, stuff like RDR2 or Doom Eternal loads much faster.
The recent news that Helldivers 2 went from 150gb to 23gb after they hired someone to do the optimization shows well the situation of modern gaming.
The recent news that Helldivers 2 went from 150gb to 23gb after they hired someone to do the optimization shows well the situation of modern gaming.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2024
Do you guys think this set would be enough for the Night Lords kill team (as far as what colors are included, I'm guessing the amount is way more than what I need)? I'm not trying to do anything fancy like the lightning on the armor.
I really would prefer to get everything in one set if possible.