Warhammer 40k

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I found one of the best quotes of Slaanesh.

One day this uneasy brotherhood may break. Should it happen, it is likely the intensely diametrical opposition between these two powers is the cause. Khorne, perhaps, his bloodstained fur bristling with the final insulting innuendo, rises from the Brass Throne, and axe in hand, leads his forces against his hated rival. Slaanesh, raptured that his foe has given into his desires, welcomes delights of the clash that follows. Even if Khorne should throttle the Lord of Pleasure until Slaanesh teeters on the brink of oblivion, the final satisfaction would be the Dark Prince’s, for what could surpass the ultimate sensation of a god feeling his own last breath pass through his wicked, smiling lips?
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Black Crusade - Tome of Excess
 
Kantreal_pattern_lasgun said:
For what its worth, I live in an area with 6 FLGS and 2 actual warhammer stores. 2 of the FLGS are so large that only new fish go to the warhammer store as the other shops have better selection. No one at any of the shops plays Age of Smegma, one stopped carrying it and replaced that shelf space with the *warmachine* reboot. Another carries more ToW than AoS.

I never hear anyone ever talk about AoS beyond "why can't 40k models be that nice"

I know "local anecdote" and all that but again, not exactly hodunk nowhere. I'm in one of the larger east coast areas.



Beyond that, the setting is just.......meh? I dunno how to describe it but there's no draw or pull at all. And some of the high fantasy stuff is fucking stupid. 40k and Fantasy benefited from feeling grounded, so the stakes feel more personal and real. Wheras in AoS if your stormcast dies it doesnt even matter they respawn. No stakes is not interesting.
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The local GW here desperately wants people to play AOS, it's a tiny store and you're not even allowed to play games in there but they set up tables with terrain and models so you can look at them. All of them were AOS. On the other front of stores it's not as big as 40k by a long shot but consistently gets players because the rules are actually very good and playable spearhead makes it very accessible. Also they've consistently had better models for years.

The problem the game has is like everyone else has said, it has no cultural weight, no memes, no unique characters people actually care about and an setting with even less narrative weight than Magic The Gathering. As far as people who actually play this game, I think I'm not alone in that I play "the army that's also in Warhammer Fantasy but with cool new models".
 
I know Im late to the party but what does kiwifarms think of the new Imperial Guard transport? I like it and think it looks miles better than that peice of shit Taurox

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(I don't think I ran into a single person that liked how this thing looks. I also never saw anyone use it without changing the tracks into tires or using a proxy model)
 
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MG-34 said:
I know Im late to the party but what does kiwifarms think of the new Imperial Guard transport? I like it and think it looks miles better than that peice of shit Taurox

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(I don't think I ran into a single person that liked how this thing looks. I also never saw anyone use it without changing the tracks into tires or using a proxy model)
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i enjoyed the redditor seething when people pointed out the halftrack looked more like a Sd Kfz 251 than an american M3 like some tried to cope
40k being so pandered to yet still having alot of people seething about the amount of chuds in the hobby like that tranny that got viral on xitter is still pretty funny, even when they "win" they lose, some hide it better than others
 
Sunflower Samurai said:
i enjoyed the redditor seething when people pointed out the halftrack looked more like a Sd Kfz 251 than an american M3 like some tried to cope
40k being so pandered to yet still having alot of people seething about the amount of chuds in the hobby like that tranny that got viral on xitter is still pretty funny, even when they "win" they lose, some hide it better than others
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It's so bizarre (but not surprising) reddit niggers have to do their best to deny any German inspiration in 40k models. Such as the faggots who insist the Death Korps of Kreig are totally French and not based off German WW1 stormtroopers.
 
spagandhi said:
The problem the game has is like everyone else has said, it has no cultural weight, no memes, no unique characters people actually care about and an setting with even less narrative weight than Magic The Gathering. As far as people who actually play this game, I think I'm not alone in that I play "the army that's also in Warhammer Fantasy but with cool new models".
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Isn't an issue also that the background story ultimately is pointless because the bad guy wins and resets the world or some shit?
MG-34 said:
I know Im late to the party but what does kiwifarms think of the new Imperial Guard transport? I like it and think it looks miles better than that peice of shit Taurox
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I think it looks pretty dope and would add it to my army.

Speaking of transports, last week I was mortified to learn that Space Marine rhinos don't accept half of their own infantry. I hope that isn't the case in 11th.
 
31 Black said:
Isn't an issue also that the background story ultimately is pointless because the bad guy wins and resets the world or some shit?
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That's kind of what happened to WHFB and is why AoS is where it is now.

The problem with the current iteration is that it's all a bunch of infinite and completely separate planes of existence, so unless you're some kind of race that needs to eat souls or whatever, you've got no reason to go through the effort of invading anywhere else.

At least with 40k, there's technically a finite number of planets, travel time is a problem even with the warp, and so is having the logistics to get shit from A to B, rather than just having your army walk through a portal. Even the factions that can do that like Eldar/Drukhari with their webway gates, Necrons with their dolmen gates, and so on, even they usually don't do that because they can't generally make them appear wherever they want them to be that is convenient. There is something about the realms being wildly magical if you stray too far from the center, but why not focus resources on dealing with that instead?

edit: I've said this before but I think their likely justification for their idiotic realms and invasions was that with WHFB for the most part armies had to cross land, so it wouldn't really be one army suddenly appears to fight another, they'd have needed to cross half the world and a bunch of territories to get there which sometimes would make sense to be a campaign on its own. The problem with this is that magic portal tech(or whatever the fuck) could have been passed around from the gods without needing this multi dimensional bullshit justification of how one army got from here to there. And even still with having to travel the long way, fine the army started out with 10,000 points worth of troops and was down to 2,000 or whatever by the time they get to their destination. Why would the defending force also only have 2,000 points of troops? Because they too sent their forces elsewhere, or it's some kind of skirmish between expeditions. Basically they were too braindead to come up with a reason for armies to clash.
 
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p1138 said:
edit: I've said this before but I think their likely justification for their idiotic realms and invasions was that with WHFB for the most part armies had to cross land, so it wouldn't really be one army suddenly appears to fight another, they'd have needed to cross half the world and a bunch of territories to get there which sometimes would make sense to be a campaign on its own. The problem with this is that magic portal tech(or whatever the fuck) could have been passed around from the gods without needing this multi dimensional bullshit justification of how one army got from here to there. And even still with having to travel the long way, fine the army started out with 10,000 points worth of troops and was down to 2,000 or whatever by the time they get to their destination. Why would the defending force also only have 2,000 points of troops? Because they too sent their forces elsewhere, or it's some kind of skirmish between expeditions. Basically they were too braindead to come up with a reason for armies to clash.
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Isnt Warhammer (both Fantasy, now Sigmar and 40k) just a buncha dudes throwing hands for whatever reason at the end of the day? The players are there to see their minis table the other guys, who even gives a fuck why they're fighting to begin with? It would be extremely retarded if this is why GW chose to do Sigmar to begin with. (I know the official reason is that WHFB had been long in the tooth and they needed to refresh the line but man The End Times really feels spiteful in how they treated some legacy characters.)
 
Kane Lives said:
Isnt Warhammer (both Fantasy, now Sigmar and 40k) just a buncha dudes throwing hands for whatever reason at the end of the day? The players are there to see their minis table the other guys, who even gives a fuck why they're fighting to begin with? It would be extremely retarded if this is why GW chose to do Sigmar to begin with. (I know the official reason is that WHFB had been long in the tooth and they needed to refresh the line but man The End Times really feels spiteful in how they treated some legacy characters.)
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Yes and no. Most people don't really care. But what differentiates GW products from many other Wargames is "the Lore", and therefore all the media products surrounding it.

You have a reason to stay engaged with the IP outside of playing games. They reinforce each other. If you read a cool book about a faction (or get hyped by some Sloptube video), then you might buy into it or stay interested in it.

Many IPs just fade away, because if you have played it enough there isn't much left, but there is always a "new thing" around every corner.

In that sense I thing it is comparable to historic wargames. You have much more to the game than just the game session. And it all flows together and hypes people more to stay invested (the extremes to it is for example 30k and it's authism to create very specific units).
 
Kane Lives said:
Isnt Warhammer (both Fantasy, now Sigmar and 40k) just a buncha dudes throwing hands for whatever reason at the end of the day? The players are there to see their minis table the other guys, who even gives a fuck why they're fighting to begin with? It would be extremely retarded if this is why GW chose to do Sigmar to begin with. (I know the official reason is that WHFB had been long in the tooth and they needed to refresh the line but man The End Times really feels spiteful in how they treated some legacy characters.)
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Yes, it is just a bunch of guys throwing hands for the sake of it. And yes, we know the official(but un-stated) reason is because WHFB wasn't selling worth a crap. I'm talking strictly about the narrative reasoning for why they made it the stupid split up realms the way they did.

But the topic is about people not engaging with AoS anywhere close to what they do with 40k outside of the tabletop, and shitty lore(which it is) could be a very good reason for that. The videogame side of things... well the games have been shit. A crappy RTS and a mobile game TCG thing is about it as I recall. But with regard to the world itself, their world building has been a mess because they started with it being an uninteresting mess.

edit: Seems there's finally official art for Perturabo in 40k now.
40k_perturabolore-apr02-art1-yfxmdlefym.jpg
 
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Kane Lives said:
Isnt Warhammer (both Fantasy, now Sigmar and 40k) just a buncha dudes throwing hands for whatever reason at the end of the day? The players are there to see their minis table the other guys, who even gives a fuck why they're fighting to begin with? It would be extremely retarded if this is why GW chose to do Sigmar to begin with. (I know the official reason is that WHFB had been long in the tooth and they needed to refresh the line but man The End Times really feels spiteful in how they treated some legacy characters.)
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I think its not really a big deal in a casual sense but to some, scenarios and the stakes behind "your dudes" when it comes to miniatures is a big deal to a lot. Even in Historical stuff it comes into play, maybe you're painting up a historical regiment who did something notable, so that little bit of emotional tism is very nice to have. Wargames do this by having bits of lore, and 40k was pretty good at it for the most part, especially with SMs, literal who's that aren't important like the Lamenters, ex-poster boys like the Crimson Fists, many "le glup shitto" Guard Regiments have many people be inspired to get them in the table thanks to lore.
30k was practically carried by this where some obscure subunit talked about in a book could be sold for a premium in FW resin.
Take a look at WHFB and you have a lot of cool /yourdudes/ potential like regiments who had last stands, protect a certain retarded piece of land or had obscured rivalries with either already bitter enemies or with something more novel. AoS either doesn't have this or hasn't gotten noticed by the vocal fry lore channels due to the lack of interest in it in a self fulfilling prophecy. I think the really disjointed nature of the setting and all the efforts done to uniquefy it for the sake of copyright really made this difficult, people like Dwarves, but I doubt many who do will buy specific steampunk ones or oops all slayers, people like Humies, but they're either knockoff space Marines or ugly fantasy militia men where half the minis are supposed to be somehow FAT or black womyn. Even Orcs and High Elves look radically different despite being mostly the same.

Tl;Dr Autism. AoS just fails to setup stakes or plot where /yourdudes/ can prosper and hasn't had youtubers AstroTurf its lore. And the copyright free terms are retarded.
 
spagandhi said:
The local GW here desperately wants people to play AOS, it's a tiny store and you're not even allowed to play games in there but they set up tables with terrain and models so you can look at them.
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Mine is currently obsessed with Blood Bowl, even though they don't sell it. I think it's the managers current pet game.

The "not playing games" part is something that annoys me. Said local manager is trying to do a work around the no games rule because they have to stay open Thursday until late, but there's zero customers around. They tried to bullshit them as demo games, but doesn't seem to be working.

I say this a lot, but they really need to get rid of this boomer/American logic of those who aren't spending are just wasting time and wearing out the carpets, because warhammer thrives on community. Even FLGS technically host games, but require too much faffing about to play.

MG-34 said:
I know Im late to the party but what does kiwifarms think of the new Imperial Guard transport?
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I like it. Always a fan of half tracks, but their rules in Bolt Action were retarded and they were expensive for such tiny models.

Bœuf Bourguignon said:
Most people don't really care. But what differentiates GW products from many other Wargames is "the Lore", and therefore all the media products surrounding it.
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Strong disagree. "The Lore" was static for a very long time and the constantly progressing lore killed off settings like Battletech and Star Wars. I'd add American comic books, but that's a whole other topic.

Bœuf Bourguignon said:
Many IPs just fade away, because if you have played it enough there isn't much left, but there is always a "new thing" around every corner.
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This doesn't require new lore though. New units were added all the time, and new factions occationally. This wasn't a problem until Tau came along, and then every new faction had to be a nostalgia reference.

Sunflower Samurai said:
Autism. AoS just fails to setup stakes or plot where /yourdudes/ can prosper and hasn't had youtubers AstroTurf its lore.
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It's not a failure to set up stakes. It's once again a nostalgia thing. Old World has old lore. I assume it's shit as no one ever talks about it aside from The End Times, and even then it's usually to say they hate it.

YouTubers can't astro turf the lore like 40k because the game is too new. They can't hold up some obscure leaflet that GW printed 30 of in the 90s and extrapolate the typo Ultramariines into a 90 minute video about the secret 21st primarch or some shit. If you pick up a 1e Stormcast codex and compare it to the current one, chances are the lore is going to be 99.9% the same.
 
Judge Dredd said:
It's not a failure to set up stakes. It's once again a nostalgia thing. Old World has old lore. I assume it's shit as no one ever talks about it aside from The End Times, and even then it's usually to say they hate it.

YouTubers can't astro turf the lore like 40k because the game is too new. They can't hold up some obscure leaflet that GW printed 30 of in the 90s and extrapolate the typo Ultramariines into a 90 minute video about the secret 21st primarch or some shit. If you pick up a 1e Stormcast codex and compare it to the current one, chances are the lore is going to be 99.9% the same.
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WHFB's loreslop got a tiny resurgance thanks to total war and to a much lesser extent Vermintide, the former made several more obscure characters like Balthazar Gelt get their fair amount of spotlights. Also if you look at the retarded shit people post about lore and SMs, there is a good chance it will be about Primaris shit or from books that aren't older than 10 years old, what AoS has had on the market. I don't think age is that big of a factor in this case
 
Judge Dredd said:
Strong disagree. "The Lore" was static for a very long time and the constantly progressing lore killed off settings like Battletech and Star Wars.
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I never said anything about progressing the storyline...and that it's a good thing. Having a bigger setting in place and material for it keeps it alive. Same as for historics. But nobody plays Hail Cesar and wants the setting to advance to Isonzo in WWI. But they have enough for that time period and setting besides just the game to be interested in, same as for most GW IPs.

So, I agree, that the progression of storylines was retarded. It killed FB off (literaly) and I think damaged 40k immensely (not in cashflow though...sadly). There was enough tho create stories and spin-offs in the established world without needing an outcome for it.
But people just always need some "big shit" happening. I would call it the Marvel-brain, but it has been like this long before too.
 
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