If you want to see the true nightmare, just go back to The End Times for Fantasy. Holy Shit bro.
But even then, they managed to turn sigmar around from its 1st ed and people are genuinely happy with it for the most part. Even watching learning games in the local shop, its a really engaging game. As for the lore, dont really care to throw myself into the sigmar stuff, but I've been reading my soulblight codex and the fluff is pretty solid.
I'm just sick of this narrative youtuber fags have been pushing since the start of 8th ish that everything coming from GW is garbage and we have to screech and cry every Sunday when they announce something new. Yea the company fucks us on a lot of shit, but you have to choose your battles. If youre a fire alarm that goes off every night, people would rather just fucking rip you off the wall then listen to the potential warning.
Its especially when we are in a world now where Heresy is about to get a big boost, sigmar is good, and 9th is.... mostly okay. Then if you dont want any GW shit, you have a gorriolion options from there(lol, the lore tubers never want to do that though.)
So I will just continue to exist and wait for bandai to make a gunpla war game and just completely dab on everyone else in a year.
I mean arch has been of the mindset "GW can do nothing right" for years (he's kinda like some SW fans who would refuse to acknowledge few if anything past the 2000s as good)
He also gets a lot of stuff wrong, specifically with primaris
1. Tech prests have already tried fucking with marines prior with the best example being everyone's favorite (overrated) punching bag the lamenters
2. Marines were far from perfect (think recent lore has a woman names astartes as their main creator along with the thunder warriors), Arch almost always equates the creation of SM to that of the primarchs when the former is still as crude as the thunder warriors when compared to the custodes (I'd even argue the golden boys are more stable gene wise then some of the primarchs)
3. Arch has been saying primaris will be the standard and firstborns are just a few months away from being scraped for almost 4-5 years now, or more recently has been saying GW is on the verge of bankruptcy or is on the edge of pulling out of the tabletop sphere. (at least someone like doomcock claims to have insider "sources" when he talks bullshit about how Kennedy is about to be fired)
"The marinlets are getting squated" he cries, as twin Volkaite contemptors, white scars vanguard vets, and attack bikes meme across the board, and they are releasing a box set for a game that does not have primaris with brand new plastic kits.
@Love_Machine011 GW was already open about the fact that the lore isn't canon. They can change it at any time. Shit, they did change it, since past editions of 40K even had half-Eldar bastards becoming members of Space Marine chapters, something that would never happen in the post-3rd Edition 40K. This is why I pretty much wasn't that upset over the Primaris-sure, they piss off the lore nerds, but the lore was never consistent to begin with, so this is just more of the usual.
I'd say that the older SW lore is more than capable of competing with 40K lore, especially since the latter doesn't even try to be consistent whereas the old Expanded Universe was mostly consistent so long as you steer clear of a few bad storylines. Just as how most 40K lore is decent so long as it's not written by Matt Ward. But for me, I find 40K novels and lore to be rather static, as if thousands upon thousands of pages of story barely even matter, because in the end, this 10K year-war will keep on going because GW needs to justify a status quo where everyone is shooting at everyone for 10K years without any major faction getting wiped out for good. It's hard to get me invested in a story that's practically static because of how horribly unrealistic it is, especially considering factors like war exhaustion and the financial cost of an eternal war. Sure, the characters come and go, but the factions remain. Why should I care that the Tyranids are about to devour a whole sector, when I know for a fact that there's no way this will cripple the Imperium, when GW NEEDS the Imperium to survive to keep selling more models?
In SWEU books, every faction from the Ancient Sith to the Rakatans, to even the New Republic and the Yuuzhan Vong, no matter how mighty, so long as they don't appear in the movies (or if the story takes place after the movies) they're fair game to be destroyed, giving the story more suspense. Of course the Republic is going to live all the way up until Episode III, but the factions they come into contact with might not. And the post-OT stories didn't need to hold back-shit, the New Republic which the OT heroes fought to establish FELL. It goes to show that the writers were willing to take risks, instead of letting the status quo remain mostly unchanged.
Part of the reason why the Maul/Mandalore arc in TCW was so fun and suspenseful is, aside from the power plays and brilliant duels, none of the major players or factions save for the Hutts appear in the original SW movies, so any of them could die. They could all wind up dead, which was why that story was so fascinating. Heck, most of them do wind up dead or exiled. Same with the post-OT content: it was suspenseful because the movie era was over, and any of our heroes or villains, or their factions, can die.
Whereas it doesn't matter whether you've read every book in the Black Library or only have a minute's worth of reading the Lexicanum, all you need to know is that there's a faction of humans called the Imperium and they're constantly waging wars against aliens, daemons, and heretics, and that status quo has gone on unchanged for 10K years. That's why this whole "grimdark" thing really doesn't strike me as a story that can surpass the SWEU, since a good story is dynamic. Factions rise and fall alongside the heroes, which gives the story suspense. Whereas no amount of military porn or emotional appeal will get me interested in a story that would barely matter in the big picture; especially when they've been crying wolf for 10K years.......and the wolf has yet to even show its face, let alone take a shit in the nearby woods.
But I do agree with you that the 40K loretubers are just worrywarts. GW is a tabletop company, first and foremost. The lore comes second to the tabletop game, not the other way around. Even if the lore falls apart and gets remodeled to appeal to the Marvel/Fortnite crowd, it will just be one of many changes to 40K that has already happened in the past. I'm sure the people who fell in love with 1st and 2nd Edition 40K's campy style of parody felt alienated when 3rd Edition came in and took the whole thing super-seriously.
And yes, Bandai's Gundam series can give even the best of 40K some really serious competition. Especially on how brutal they can be towards the main characters. Zeta Gundam, anybody? A gunpla war game is bound to use stat cards to highlight the strength or weaknesses of each mobile suit/mobile armor, although I wouldn't be surprised if they let players use different mobile suits from different factions and eras in their armies, like say, have the Sinanju backed up by Gundam Physalis and the Qubeley, one will be the speedster, the other has the nuke, and the third deploys drones with beam weapons.
"The marinlets are getting squated" he cries, as twin Volkaite contemptors, white scars vanguard vets, and attack bikes meme across the board, and they are releasing a box set for a game that does not have primaris with brand new plastic kits.
@CryoRevival #SJ-112 I would have preferred it if the 40K story ended years ago. Even the SWEU had a definite ending several years ago with the end of the Legacy Era comic series. But comparing the pre-8th Edition 40K and the post-8th Edition 40K, I'd rather prefer this change of pace to a more dynamic, Marvel-esque story, than endless stories in a sandbox where the narrative has been crying wolf for 10K years with nary a sign of the damned beast. The older fans like Arch don't like it because they want to keep on making up stories in that endlessly grimdark world for their own content, but GW sees dollar signs among the Marvel/Fortnite crowd, so it's not that surprising that they'd go for a more modern take rather than remain edgelord bait forever.
Grimdark was popular in the 90s and early 2000s when all that edgy shit was in contrast to all the safe and child-friendly stuff that the mainstream culture bombarded you with during those days, but now? It's no longer unique, nor is it the most profitable, so I can see why GW ditched the grimdark crowd for the kiddie crowd. After all, Marvel and Fortnite were far more profitable than Game of Thrones ever was, and if GRRM's delays for his novels and D&D's slapdash Game of Thrones ending is anything to consider, grimdark stuff can rarely manage endings well.
@vern Last I checked, GW's profits are rising, not falling, so any talk of them going bankrupt because a bunch of grognards walked away and caused a scene is laughable. They've been raking in record profits since 2017. Why would they stop what they're doing now?
And yes, Arch is becoming oddly similar to the Prequel-bashers in the SW fandom, always whining at something new despite the merits or flaws of them. Just like the former, who were so in love with the OT that they couldn't accept the prequels, Arch just can't accept anything that isn't peddling the ETERNAL GRIMDARK that he wants 40K to keep on going with.
I am still think that they will move towards a monetization model primarily based on their IP rather than the models themselves. 3d printers are too much of a threat to their whale market.
That said however, institutional culture is not insignificant, they will be thinking like a tabletop company with those values for a long time which will get them through my theorised transition without changing the stuff people like too radically while its new role as media company hopefully sands down some of their rougher edges.
Have you guys ever seen any in person hate for Primaris? At most I get they have boring lore but thats it nothing on the scale of THEY RUINED 40K THEY ARE MARVEL SHIT 40K IS DEAD AND MADE FOR SJWS NOW!
I am still think that they will move towards a monetization model primarily based on their IP rather than the models themselves. 3d printers are too much of a threat to their whale market.
That said however, institutional culture is not insignificant, they will be thinking like a tabletop company with those values for a long time which will get them through my theorised transition without changing the stuff people like too radically while its new role as media company hopefully sands down some of their rougher edges.
They're probably going to sanitize 40K of its more grimdark elements to make it feasible for public consumption. Especially since they're breaking into the toy market as well. I'm surprised it took them this long. Even Blizzard was selling action figures of its heroes years ago. 40K has a lot of toyetic things that would make for good toy sales aside from the Space Marines which already have toys. Things like tanks, titans, Daemon Princes, Ork Warbosses and the like would make for good action figure bait. If anything else, once they lose out to the 3D printers in the miniature market, they can always turn to marketing cheap $20 figures for profit a la Transformers and GI Joe.
Shit, if I owned Warhammer 40K, I'd turn it into GI Joe in space, complete with a cheesy cartoon that airs on prime time TV. It would break all sorts of lore, but we'd make a killing on toy sales alone, and I'm sure the suits would support that move.
The best critism I have ever seen of the primaris basic troops is that they are slightly bland looking especially in ornate chapters like blood angels and dark angels. I personally really like the majority of primaris infantry sculps and even the redemptor sculp, but the vehicles are certified ADHD retard magnets.
The best critism I have ever seen of the primaris basic troops is that they are slightly bland looking especially in ornate chapters like blood angels and dark angels. I personally really like the majority of primaris infantry sculps and even the redemptor sculp, but the vehicles are certified ADHD retard magnets.
Out of all the Primaris tanks and transports I personally like the Impulsor and Gladiator (they are based on the same chassis) and in the future id like to be a good little marine pig and make a second marine army that is my melee and armor focused compared to my Raptors.
However, with my custodes I feel like I am in a minority in that I hate their grav tanks and much rather buy a Custodes Land Raider even if it is the worst unit in their entire catalog.
Out of all the Primaris tanks and transports I personally like the Impulsor and Gladiator (they are based on the same chassis) and in the future id like to be a good little marine pig and make a second marine army that is my melee and armor focused compared to my Raptors.
However, with my custodes I feel like I am in a minority in that I hate their grav tanks and much rather buy a Custodes Land Raider even if it is the worst unit in their entire catalog.
I think Primaris was just GW raping Marine players for 2 wounds. They were designing 8th with the jump to 2 wound marines, then decided to make the largest played faction have to pay for that for an edition.
I think Primaris was just GW raping Marine players for 2 wounds. They were designing 8th with the jump to 2 wound marines, then decided to make the largest played faction have to pay for that for an edition.
I think it was mostly a "How do we redo marines but give people a reason to rebuy the armies" so you get this new lore, and 2 wounds as a way for GW to resell marines. Like I seen people say they should have just made MK.X and all the new shit just upgrades for marines without the primaris fluff. Reminder the marine releases before primaris outside of Death Watch were garbage so they needed to redo stuff entirely.
Also look at the new ork boyz even before we found out they were monopose I saw people going "im not rebuying 100 ork boyz" so this mindset does exist.
Agreed. Putting Space Marines in tanks kinda negates their advantage of being more mobile than tanks despite being heavily armored. If a tank explodes with Space Marines inside, the explosion will kill them as well, and they're harder to replace than IG forces. It makes more sense for the IG to hide inside tanks and use tanks, since they don't have power armor or advanced genetics, whereas the Space Marines, being a highly mobile corps of heavily-armored shocktroopers with the endurance of a tank and the mobility of an infantryman, would be better off not hiding inside a tank.
The best critism I have ever seen of the primaris basic troops is that they are slightly bland looking especially in ornate chapters like blood angels and dark angels. I personally really like the majority of primaris infantry sculps and even the redemptor sculp, but the vehicles are certified ADHD retard magnets.
The Primaris don't have the proper look for Space Marines or 40k. Space Marines have an Industrial Gothic look -- they look used, even the new ones. Even the most new, off the factory floor version of the Firstborn look old and used because the armor is piecemeal of like 4 different Marks. Mk4/6/7, rarely 5 and 8, namely. Things look a little bit outdated, a little bit less than futuretech. Most of the Imperium armies have something similar going on -- the AdMech are running around with woodstock rifles that happen to use futuretech barrels, for example, while the Sisters of Battle (at least before they started being retooled as Female Space Marines) were focusing more on a church-with-tank-treads scheme.
The Primaris screw this up by tossing that aside for Uniform Tacticool. Everything looks scifi and fancy and new. There's 3 versions of the armor and they are all the same (Tacticus, Gravis, Phobos) across those three versions, with only one or two models mixing and matching. There's a reason why, mind you -- doing it this way allows them to have 3 base rigs in their 3d modeling software, if they want to make a miniature they pick up that rig, pose it, and then add cruft like ornate bits or a tabbard or whatever. (This is why there's so many Primaris Lieutenants.) Doing the same thing with Mk4/5/6/7/8 armor would be significantly harder (I know, I've been trying to find a decent STL for Space Marine arms and legs for a while now).
How does this fit in with the vehicles? Well, if you have a bunch of only-ok modelers, giving them a well done rig to make infantry off of works great... but what happens when you ask them to make something from scratch?
