Were incels avoidable?

[murph]

Funny that "incel" attaches to men when it was a woman who came up with the term.

There are lots of unfuckable people. Making it a feedback loop into an inescapable neurosis is a modern thing. Emily Dickinson was an "incel".

 

[Big Al's Famous Pork]

If you can make a woman laugh, you can get laid.
If you want to sit around and cry about how life is unfair on Discord, you won't,

 

[PaleTay]

I think you needed to get rid of cars to get rid of incels.

There's a big difference between being lonely in a bikable city in Europe or one where you're all on the beach or at the boardwalk and one where you're stuck in hours upon hours of traffic a day and don't know your neighbors because no one exists near their home.

 

[cybertoaster]

I agree to the extent that the loveshy and incels both tend to be creeps, I think what's going on inside their heads is different. Similarly both types are both generally shut-ins, NEETs. From what I read I just picture a different sort of person as the loveshy. They seem much more pathological and hung up in fear, the incels more of a "learned" problem, might say?

I think loveshy is a precondition to become an incel. Like I wouldn't be surprised if most incels today were the loveshys from a decade ago posting those foreveralone memes trying to cope thinking it was just a matter of time for things to change. Then those memes changed to more cynical ones, and then to outright anger and hate at the realization this wasnt a bad moment, this is the way life is gonna be for most of them.

Loveshys still have hope, incels are loveshys that have gazed into the abyss, see what I mean?

In part I agree, but many of them troon out so it's not "Gay". Just gay with extra steps.

Aren't most incels that do this transbians tho?

why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it?

Isn't that what they are doing? most incels don't seem to be contributing anything to society, many say they're unemployed living off neetbux.

Then there's MGTOW but that's more about doing the bare minimum. I know tons of normies who're basically doing that but have never heard of that movement.

 

[AbyssGazer]

I think loveshy is a precondition to become an incel. Like I wouldn't be surprised if most incels today were the loveshys from a decade ago posting those foreveralone memes trying to cope thinking it was just a matter of time for things to change. Then those memes changed to more cynical ones, and then to outright anger and hate at the realization this wasnt a bad moment, this is the way life is gonna be for most of them.

Loveshys still have hope, incels are loveshys that have gazed into the abyss, see what I mean?

Aren't most incels that do this transbians tho?

Isn't that what they are doing? most incels don't seem to be contributing anything to society, many say they're unemployed living off neetbux.

Then there's MGTOW but that's more about doing the bare minimum. I know tons of normies who're basically doing that but have never heard of that movement.

Not talking about work and finances only. Let's say I woke up one day and realised that women and society as a whole shunned me and that it wasn't going to change. I'd probably be upset at first, but that would be a pointless feeling. When the realisation settled I'd become a complete hermit somewhere, or maybe a monk. The motivation to escape the society that hated me would be enormous.

The incels hate women and normie society as they can't have it. Yet they must subconsciously believe that if they just obsess enough over their plight they'll find a way out.

Sounds ironic, but if incels really gave up and understood their situation, they probably would become happier.

 

[Claude Sigma]

Genetic data on X and Y haplogroups tell us that a huge chunk of the males never reproduce, and that's the case since forever, even when state-enforced monogamy became a thing.
It used to be the "village idiot/weirdo", commonly called a geek that would end up alone forever and maybe have sex with prostitutes, but the difference is that nowadays those isolated individuals find a way through the Internet to become some sort of a collective, which is something that never happened before.

This coupled with the issue that women pretty much always choose in their close circles for a mate, there wasn't that much choice so it didn't felt unfair even to the males, but nowadays where the majority of couples are formed over online dating women have access to a much greater pool and can afford to be a lot more selective about their mates.

This makes a difficult situation, but there is no easy solution to it. A part of the population of males will never reproduce or have access to significant opposite sex attention, as it has always been. That's sad but that's how it is.

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

On the other hand, if they really understand that the situation is completely hopeless, why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it? Seems like they did so more in the past.

There was more not-society to escape to, in the past. Nowadays, everyone is oversocialized

 

[Chaos Theorist]

Some people, especially men, are genetic dead ends. This has been the case since the dawn of complex life and will be until we enforce strict eugenics or become something non-biological.

I really can't blame the incels for going insane over realising this fact. On the other hand, if they really understand that the situation is completely hopeless, why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it? Seems like they did so more in the past.

The amount of women who get a free pass from society because they have children is staggering

 

[$80 Nude Haircut]

The distinctive thing about incels is their system of belief where they basically view women as all being promiscuous sociopaths driven entirely by appearance, they believe society owes them women and women are the center of their world, and they usually prioritize specific male attractiveness standards, focused on height and facial structure, which they fixate on obsessively.

If this is the case then the incel phenomenon really is unique to the times. The incels didn't decide to believe all of those things at random. You probably have a phone & can use it right now to download a popular app & see shallow women engage in sociopathic behavior while demonstrating stupid values like not dating anyone whose height begins with a 5. The concept of Chad isn't new either & his perpetual pump-n'-dumping of porkulent women on dating sites is probably why they all have such a princess syndrome. He's not without blame despite incel culture seeming to insist otherwise.

But more than anything western culture is completely diseased & equates virginity with every theoretical "lack of" shallow retards can possibly extrapolate. Worshiping at the altars of increasingly deranged kinds of sex or sexuality while punching down at people who simply haven't experienced it (out of choice or because they haven't figured out dating yet) is what created the incel phenomenon. If you participate in this bullying then that's fine because it's really funny but I'm going to laugh at you, too, when the incel you bullied decides to Nikolas Cruz you & your friends.

tl;dr pick a church and go to it fags

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Some of usthem are just born so socially inept that there would never be a chance in any era, but I do think society has made it worse.

Men were sold a narrative. Go to college, get a good job, take halfway decent care of yourself, and the ladies will flock to you. When that didn't happen, is there any surprise that a lot of young men were confused and angry? And when they question it, they were told it still must be their fault somehow. It just HAS to be, because otherwise we'd have to admit that they were lied to.

We can't let them drop out of society either, because it turns out that horny young men are actually the backbone of the economy. So we use the carrot and stick. The carrot is that if they work just a LITTLE bit harder, if they just "put themselves out there" a LITTLE bit more, they'll finally find a lady. The stick is that, if they don't, we'll call them maladjusted anti-social mass murderers waiting to happen.

What are the perpetually maidenless SUPPOSED to think? I'm not saying that the full incel weirdos who want to chain women in their parents' basement are thinking in a healthy way, but how SHOULD they react? You can't win, you can't break even, you can't leave the game. What exactly did society expect would happen?

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

tl;dr pick a church and go to it fags

Just for that faggot quip, I'm becoming a Scientologist. You can't get pissed at me, since The Church of Scientology is still a church

 

[FILTH Tourist]

If we are going to tackle the incel problem we need to break up the term incel into more specific categories. People are incel for many reasons and unless we can better diagnose what is stopping someone from having sex we will never make progress helping people.

 

[cybertoaster]

Genetic data on X and Y haplogroups tell us that a huge chunk of the males never reproduce, and that's the case since forever, even when state-enforced monogamy became a thing.

You have to go really far back to get those numbers, not being an optimist or anything its just state/religious-enforced monogamy really changed things a lot which might be partially the reason why so many people joined since who wants to live in a society where you are condemned to inceldom because some old fat cunt in a ziggurat/pyramid/palace decided to have 200 wives?

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Something to keep in mind is that society, in my view, used to be much more friendly to spergs, perhaps to the detriment of normalfags.

Even outside of societies where you just buy a wife, elaborate social rituals gave a playbook to men of how to act. Often spergs are people who need formality to function well but appreciate formality when offered to them. Something like the Victorian Era had strict rules about what you say and do, but clear ones.

I think when we loosened everything up it liberated the guys who didn't have trouble socializing naturally, but it wrecked the ones who do.

 

[George Floyd Sneed]

There are a lot of factors that go into it. One that is the least comfortable to bring up is that society in general has hundreds of millions of “excess men.” Back in the day, men worked dangerous jobs and then got to fight in nonstop wars. A good chunk of those guys died or were maimed. This resulted in men having an easier time finding a woman to marry. Women are social creatures so not landing a man meant she was SOL so she had to be more pleasant, not be a feminist, etc. The women who lost out were the spinsters and crazy cat ladies. Generations before that they just went into a convent.

So back then there were excess women but they tended to be uglier, bad attitudes, etc. So both men and women had various eugenics that were in place to filter out the undesirables. Now those women are still in the picture and get 100 swipes right on dating apps. So the excess men are left behind but not the excess women. It’s leading into the current shit show of today. I don’t see a solution unless we go back to seeing nonstop wars and dangerous jobs culling the excess, which I don’t see happening. There might just be a chunk of the male population that will just have to go without.

 

[Big Al's Famous Pork]

There aren't a lot of factors involved.
If you can't get laid its your own fault.
It isn't society's fault. Feminism didn't cause it.
You did.
Grow up.

 

[A Pale Shadow]

Why don't we just hookup the incels together?

Because the defining feature of most incels is a lack of self awareness. They won't marry down if they're unattractive and want a Stacey to magic all their mental illness away.

 

[beet644]

Because the defining feature of most incels is a lack of self awareness. They won't marry down if they're unattractive and want a Stacey to magic all their mental illness away.

I know a Incel he would not consider dating a fat or an ugly also wont date a a girl that drinks or smokes ( he not religious but says the smell makes him sick). But yet wants a Stacy. I told him in this day and age a girl like that is not real. Also wont find a girl if you spend both your off days playing D&D from, 1 pm to 2 AM

 

[DankSmoker]

How could they be incel if they weren't avoidable?

 

[PipTheAlchemist]

There might just be a chunk of the male population that will just have to go without.

Question is, what do we do with these men? Most men are not going to be okay with the fact that they'll never get laid. Whether they deserve it, or not. They're still going to be pissed-off, and this could be disastrous for society. Young, fighting-age sexually-frustrated males are the demographic group you'd least want to piss-off, when running a society
Obviously, many of these incels have no hope in Hell of getting a gf, but they're still going to exist. Meaning we need to do something about them. Only things I can think of which could quell some kind of Beta Uprising is authoritarian bullshits like forced sterilization and mandatory conscription