Were incels avoidable?

[KID NAMED SCHWARMAPUNK]

We should've just sacrificed these turbo-virgins to Moloch when we had the chance.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

All is fair in love and war. And the first thing to die with war is the truth.

People try to give their generalized advice, but if this worked easy then autists wouldn't have so much trouble dating. Truth is we have imperfect but sophisticated ways how we choose our partners and no matter what they do, some will never make it, because they came out of the box too broken to function. Who will tell eliott that he was a retard with self image trouble? If he could listen to feedback, would he have been a retard?

There are fundamentally three things that have changed. "There are many men that live lives of quiet desperation". This is not new.

The first change is the pill. This puts market pressure on women to go on the pill to have sex with the most desirable of men. Because if she doesn't, another will. This destroys the bargaining position of "marriage first".

The second change is the destruction of marriage. A number of causes, including the above, gay marriage, "friends" (the show), feminism, no fault divorce and more.

The third change is self publishing media of youtube videos / internet forums. This allows the quiet desperation men to find each other and talk with each other and verbalize their raw deal. Listen to the videos. They all have weird voices. Like annoying ones. Almost none show their face and those that do usually look weird. Even their succesful grifters aren't the charismatic leaders that are typically are at the top of any social group.

---

You've got a short window of time when you meet a woman in real life (Not bars or dating apps) where you get put in a pending box whether she might date you. But like fresh fruit you go rotten quickly in that box so you've got to ask her out quickly before that happens.

I think in general it's just good strategy for 90% of men to shoot your shot early if you think someone is attractive. It's a waste of your time to continue being attracted from afar. But knowing someone longer isn't necessarily an impediment either. At the core the only relevant 2 questions are: do 2 people find each other attractive and is the timing right?

 

[Celestial Peace]

Assuming an incel has enough will and means to go see a female shrink: Does anyone think they can actually help them by precisely tapping into their problem? Or will they offer some meaningless roundabout advice about women?

 

[Monuklear]

A lot of incel-ish arguments in this thread.

From what I've seen, the #1 problem for the overwhelming majority of incels (besides the terrible self-sabotaging attitude aka their "redpill") is just the fact they don't even interact with women. They have no female friends and none of their friends (if they even have any) have female friends either. They just exist in a hermetic social bubble that consists entirely of fellow male nerds. They're so inexperienced at talking to women that even when they do get to talk to a girl, they get nervous and either spill their spaghetti or act like absolute creeps and spergs.
And because they are so alienated from women and are stuck in these self-selecting crab bucket communities, their idea of what women are like becomes distorted through the internet, either through their loveshy support groups or by only being exposed to dating app thots. They end up develop an entire universe of pseudo-scientific mumbojumbo for cope or fall for PUA scams, and all that shit just ends up hampering them even more.

This is not to hate on incels, or to put all or even most of the blame on them. First world societies are insanely lonely places. People have less friends than ever, attend less social events than ever and talk to each other in person less than ever. The internet has exacerbated this problem immensely. Loneliness is an unspoken epidemic. So yes, in this sort of environment, I think that incels are an inevitability.

 

[Celestial Peace]

First world societies are insanely lonely places. People have less friends than ever, attend less social events than ever and talk to each other in person less than ever.

Third world citizen here and things here aren't much different.

Obviously people here communicate more but that's it: You're not exactly forming a connection when you interact with people here because it's just a cultural habit but people here do it mostly to save face. Being introverted only makes you stand out.

Meanwhile before COVID-19 happened my country was already ranking first in anxiety and fifth in depression. Needless to say this likely worsened after COVID-19. You could take into account other issues such as violence, corruption, unemployment or unstable economy but that's up for another debate.

My point is an incel would have even more serious social problems here because people here are culturally self-righteous and insincere. The feeling of loneliness would hit way harder.

 

[anustart76]

A lot of incel-ish arguments in this thread.

From what I've seen, the #1 problem for the overwhelming majority of incels (besides the terrible self-sabotaging attitude aka their "redpill") is just the fact they don't even interact with women. They have no female friends and none of their friends (if they even have any) have female friends either. They just exist in a hermetic social bubble that consists entirely of fellow male nerds. They're so inexperienced at talking to women that even when they do get to talk to a girl, they get nervous and either spill their spaghetti or act like absolute creeps and spergs.
And because they are so alienated from women and are stuck in these self-selecting crab bucket communities, their idea of what women are like becomes distorted through the internet, either through their loveshy support groups or by only being exposed to dating app thots. They end up develop an entire universe of pseudo-scientific mumbojumbo for cope or fall for PUA scams, and all that shit just ends up hampering them even more.

This is not to hate on incels, or to put all or even most of the blame on them. First world societies are insanely lonely places. People have less friends than ever, attend less social events than ever and talk to each other in person less than ever. The internet has exacerbated this problem immensely. Loneliness is an unspoken epidemic. So yes, in this sort of environment, I think that incels are an inevitability.

They have no idea where to even begin with women, and there isn't any way for them to learn. It doesn't help that figuring out the appropriate place to speak to women in an interested fashion is like herding cats.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Everytime I see this thread, I misread the title.

Were incels available?
Were incels adorable?
Were incels affordable?

 

[Iron Jaguar]

You can make a woman laugh by acting like a fool. Though it'll make her see you as a laughing stock instead of a potential fucktoy

IDK. Seems to work for niggers.

 

[Fate Fan]

Not to the extent. alot of incels seems to have deep anxiety or insecurities that they channel into a variety of things.

Incels will always exist as there will be ugly people or just people who are retards but I think it would be less prevalent

 

[Just A Butt]

i feel like i solved this like a year ago

 

[Harbinger of Kali Yuga]

I think incels are a product of social media and dating apps excluding most men from dating moreso in the past, and the increasingly toxic ways women reject men to protect their perceived social value and because being a "bitch" is seen as a good thing among most women. You have the proliferation of "role models" such as Cardi B and tiktok influencers encouraging these trends.

A lot of incel-ish arguments in this thread.

From what I've seen, the #1 problem for the overwhelming majority of incels (besides the terrible self-sabotaging attitude aka their "redpill") is just the fact they don't even interact with women. They have no female friends and none of their friends (if they even have any) have female friends either. They just exist in a hermetic social bubble that consists entirely of fellow male nerds. They're so inexperienced at talking to women that even when they do get to talk to a girl, they get nervous and either spill their spaghetti or act like absolute creeps and spergs.
And because they are so alienated from women and are stuck in these self-selecting crab bucket communities, their idea of what women are like becomes distorted through the internet, either through their loveshy support groups or by only being exposed to dating app thots. They end up develop an entire universe of pseudo-scientific mumbojumbo for cope or fall for PUA scams, and all that shit just ends up hampering them even more.

This is not to hate on incels, or to put all or even most of the blame on them. First world societies are insanely lonely places. People have less friends than ever, attend less social events than ever and talk to each other in person less than ever. The internet has exacerbated this problem immensely. Loneliness is an unspoken epidemic. So yes, in this sort of environment, I think that incels are an inevitability.

I think there's a lot of truth here, but women are taught to be toxic and abusive to men they perceive as low value, especially shy. It creates a feedback loop too, and women really do get off and enjoy messing with men they view as weak. Part of the incel phenomenon is a reaction to lonely young men being treated like they're less than dog shit by women that want to inflate their perceived social status.

 

[Just A Butt]

really?

 

[Android raptor]

Yeah if gross dudes would better themselves to not be creepy, entitled assholes women instinctively avoid b/c they don't want to get rapemurdered

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Incels will always exist as there will be ugly people or just people who are retards but I think it would be less prevalent

Incels were an inevitably. I think it's important to make a distinction. A lot of people on this forum seem to think incels are the same Chris-Chan looking mother fuckers from 2010. That's just not the reality anymore unless you're going to change the term Incel from involuntary celibates. Today's involuntary celibates look more like your average guy who just didn't get lucky due to women's increasingly unreasonable demands. They get lumped in with retarded untouchables by default and I'm sorry, but that's just not fair or reasonable. Dating apps, bad parenting, and modern day feminism has created a world where women have unrealistic standards and it's turned average men into sacrificial lambs as a result. The world still shits on them even though they did nothing different than their parents before them. They're just 5'8 instead of 6'.

 

[Odd Opossum]

i feel like i solved this like a year ago

You didn't.

 

[(((I am NOT a jew)))]

I think it's also just a shift. A negative one, but that's what it is.
Having talks with boomer/gen-x women they talk about how there used to be guys that were "out of their reach" or that they were scared to ask out. Believe it or not, there was a point in time where women had to compete for men. I think people always get the idea from film/media that highschool life/dating was always a bunch of guys too nervous to ask the popular girl out when in reality it was a thing for both sexes.
Then we kind of entered a renaissance in the 90s/2000s where you could realistically date people outside of your "level" if you were bold enough and men/women just had an easier time interacting in regular friendships.
I think now we're just on the opposite side of it, but the degree to where it is is way worse than any other time. I think it will die out eventually but it will probably fuck up an entire generation of men/women. Even now the whole "incel" term is dying down and people are saying how reactionary and dumb it was considering a third of men could count as one now. And it definitely has peaked in the past three years because even pre-covid dating dating wasn't something that was almost off the table for men.
I would say the two best things men could do to avoid being incels right now is:
Work on a friendgroup (primarily men) before you chase after pussy. That's difficult but still within possibility. That's a big mistake of mine. I wasted a lot of years chasing after women when in reality I had opportunities to make friends with really great men, ones who could have probably introduced me to a lot more women. People are really weird now. They just will not approach if they see you are a lone/loner, especially in a sexual/romantic sense.
And just have actual interests. A lot of incels now seem to be boring as fuck. They don't have any real passion or interests that they bring up other than wanting women. I've literally gotten women by talking about fucking ANIME and art shit passionately. Women will take someone who's a bit of a sperg over a dead fish most of the time.
The next ten years are going to be very interesting to see the results of.

Also, just forget women for the most part. Like have you seen them recently? There's plenty of great women out there but a lot are not exactly the type you want to have company with for long periods of time. Not saying you gotta turn into a fag or sigma grind your way out of not wanting them. It's a biological need to feel validation, especially sexually and romantically. But I would say these guys need more male support and to be able to have passions/interests that help them. And those passions/interests does not equal doing shit people tell you will get you laid. If you like Star Wars, be that guy. If you want to draw, write, play chess, karate, assemble models or even like fucking Sanic, you'll do fine. Just do what you like without being severely fat and gay and you'll do fine. Either you'll get people interested in you for you or you'll be actually enjoying yourself while the majority of men trip over themselves trying to get validation without ever validating themselves. If you like going to the gym, like doing it because how it fulfills you and not because of the dating prospects you might get because of it. The real chads in the world play for the sheer love of the game.

 

[WE'RE ALL GONNA]

I've been seeing people who would usually be labeled incels as "asexuals". One person I know has plenty of talent but has never had a date and is more focused on problems with his family. I've known another who never had success in the dating sphere and called themselves asexual. Most of these people are shy, never had guidance, nor the confidence to talk to a women romantically. That's part of the programming though, it's been happening for decades and people are now starting to notice.

Male and female inceldom is inevitable, first world countries who have had a taste of the West's concoction of sexual liberalism will die out over centuries. They're being replaced with cultures that value family and herald sex as a tool for building a future. The population of religious groups like Catholics, especially Muslims will expand as everyone else tortures themselves to worship an economy.

 

[AnOminous]

The first change is the pill. This puts market pressure on women to go on the pill to have sex with the most desirable of men. Because if she doesn't, another will. This destroys the bargaining position of "marriage first".

There's a name for those. They are called sluts. Or whores. They should not be desirable. And there's social pressure to be that way but do you really want to be with someone who caves in to that kind of social pressure and whores around anyway? And a swinger/cuck who acts that way is just as pathetic btw even though it's more "natural" for a male to do that. Natural doesn't mean good.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

There's a name for those. They are called sluts. Or whores. They should not be desirable. And there's social pressure to be that way but do you really want to be with someone who caves in to that kind of social pressure and whores around anyway? And a swinger/cuck who acts that way is just as pathetic btw even though it's more "natural" for a male to do that. Natural doesn't mean good.

Look we're talking societal changes, so what I, you or that guy do personally is only a drop in the water. On the whole people do cave to social pressure, even if a couple of rocks stick out.

So take the right level of magnification and discuss what's happening on broad scale.

 

[AnOminous]

Look we're talking societal changes, so what I, you or that guy do personally is only a drop in the water.

And all we have control over is our own lives. I'm not getting with those whores. If that means being alone, fine. I'm not going to blame the entire species for the fact I'm more selective than retards I despise.