Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Oilspill Battery]

>creatives can make their characters look however they want and the purpose of stories are to be interesting and well written

>some American writers will make their stories racially diverse to reflect the area they were raised in (i.e NY or LA or whatever)

These american writers make their stories racially diverse in settings where it doesn't make sense or there's no explenation for it.

If your character is a black man in the middle of imperial japan with no explenation then by definition its not well writen.

The fact that so many writers are unable to write worlds that don't resemble american coastal cities is part of the reason why fiction is so shit today.

>writers who live in more homogenous countries like Japan, Russia, or Nigeria will not feel obligated to due so because of said homogeny
>people are individuals and can have any personality and varied outlooks on life and the characters people write should reflect this
>"this oppression of the white man will not stand!"

You've yet to explain why white men being the main characters of western fiction is a problem but black men and asian men being the main characters of african and asian fiction isn't.

Okay
We have female cops and female soldiers in real life so why can't they be in fiction?

Both female cops and female soldiers are pitty hires at best and jokes at worst. Female cops get manhandled by criminals all the time and female soldiers are a straight up liability for any unit they're in.

Which hey, if you want to make a story about a completely mismanaged and incompetent coutry run by idiots, that's actually a great thing to focus on!

But if you wanna make a story about a massive imperialist authoritarian fearsome empire? That's a big nono.

There are logical reasons for why women aren't on the front lines. Men are stronger than women, obviously and are needed to maintain the homefront, but women would excel in stealth offensive roles like assassins or snipers.

Stealth roles and extended deployments still require strength, agility and endurance all of which they lack compared to men making still a far worse choice than men. Is a woman assassin less stupid than a woman in a shield wall? Sure. Is it still insanely stupid? Yes.

Of course there are scenarios where a female assassin can work and does make sense, but this falls into the "men with tits" problem. Agent 47 does not make sense as a woman.

If you want a female assasin you need to actually write a story for a female assassin (focused more on social infiltration) insead of writing a generic assassin story and putting a woman in the lead lore.

I never understood the "men with tits" thing. Unless she's a troon, then she is a woman. She may be brash, arrogant, aggressive and have short hair, but she is still a woman.

Men and women are different both physically and mentally. A well writen character should not be able to be gender swapped with no effect on the story. You cannot gender swap james bond without making the story severly shittier because a large part of his story are his character traits primarily excibited by and assosicated with men.

 

[AnOminous]

Herge actually traveled to the places Tintin went to (except for the moon obviously) and crafted stories around them. Ignoring the few stories' outdated stereotypes, the landscapes, the action (albeit looney tune as hell) and human interactions in general were all engaging and exciting!

There were only a couple seriously racist ones (early ones like the Congo one), and nothing really worse than some of the early Looney Tunes.

If your character is a black man in the middle of imperial japan with no explenation then by definition its not well writen.

If you're writing about another country and for some reason need to use a racial minority, why not use one they actually have, like the Uyghurs? But nooo, it has to be blacks every damn time.

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

Both female cops and female soldiers are pitty hires at best and jokes at worst. Female cops get manhandled by criminals all the time and female soldiers are a straight up liability for any unit they're in.

Depends how you use them. Female police officers that bust down criminals ridiculous, female officers that do investigation related work like interviews, crime scenes, lab and note taking much less so. I mean this both IRL and fiction. Police work is more than the on street stuff and females are perfectly capable excelling some of it. Not all of it but some of it and in fictional story that can really add to tensions and mood.

In most wars female solders have mainly been in a base supporting role like a nurse, a cook or a secretary. Their jobs being those that free men to do more crucial aspects of war and more often than not somewhat care takery. More fighting orientated placements have been moral boosting special units not really ment to fight or the situation on a home truff is so dire that the less capable have to join into battle from women, children to the lame.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Depends how you use them. Female police officers that bust down criminals ridiculous, female officers that do investigation related work like interviews, crime scenes, lab and note taking much less so. I mean this both IRL and fiction. Police work is more than the on street stuff and females are perfectly capable excelling some of it. Not all of it but some of it and in fictional story that can really add to tensions and mood.

In most wars female solders have mainly been in a base supporting role like a nurse, a cook or a secretary. Their jobs being those that free men to do more crucial aspects of war and more often than not somewhat care takery. More fighting orientated placements have been moral boosting special units not really ment to fight or the situation on a home truff is so dire that the less capable have to join into battle from women, children to the lame.

Most of the stories that are guilty of this trope tend to literally just put women on the frontline and have them beat up men because the writers either lack the mental capacity or foresight to try and figure out how to properly implement women in a plausible scenario in the setting they've made.

The idea of having women performers act as a morale boost for troops is a very neat one, however, most stories just give them a battle axe/blaster and sic 'em on the battlefield alongside the men.

 

[Yeshuash]

Most of the stories that are guilty of this trope tend to literally just put women on the frontline and have them beat up men because the writers either lack the mental capacity or foresight to try and figure out how to properly implement women in a plausible scenario in the setting they've made.

The idea of having women performers act as a morale boost for troops is a very neat one, however, most stories just give them a battle axe/blaster and sic 'em on the battlefield alongside the men.

Riza Hawkeye from Full Metal Alchemist is a good example of a female soldier. She is a Sniper. Her thing is to provide support and she's good at that. Anytime she gets involved in up close combat her first instinct is to run away and get to a better position.

 

[Life is Hell...]

Who is she talking about? Paging @Steamboat_Bill and any others who frequent John K's thread.

I'm assuming she's just referring to anyone who worked on Ren and Stimpy in general, and how they're all just a bunch of Sexist Male Gazing Creeps. And trust me... that's not the only stupid thing she's tweeted in the past...

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[A Grey Cat]

I'm assuming she's just referring to anyone who worked on Ren and Stimpy in general, and how they're all just a bunch of Sexist Male Gazing Creeps. And trust me... that's not the only stupid thing she's tweeted in the past...

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And despite all that she must wonder every night why her only "boyfriend" runs on AA's and there's not a man alive who wants to even look at her. I "coined" the term Weimar girls of animation...but let it be said that it applies to both the creations and creator.

Were the flappers and their equivalents in Deutschland really happy with all the so called "liberation." they had?..who knows ask one of the few 140 year olds still kicking around or just ask people like Kristen Gish or Sam Maggs.

 

[TVB]

“Manatees man” to be fair I hate both of those shows.

I mean, American Dad is still way better than Family Guy, all things considered.

But yea, fuck BoJack Horseman.

 

[A Grey Cat]

yea, fuck BoJack Horseman.

Bojack inspired maybe only one imitator and that was tucca and bertie. And calling that show an imitator is dubious at best the only comparison you can make is that it's a slice of life adult cartoon. Only instead of a washed up Hollywood has been the show focuses on a single girl in her 30s (again projection much?) Trying to get her life on order.

Conversely after Rick and morty took off, how many adult cartoons have tried to be simplistic sci fi comedies that try to be more than just "silly sci-fi cartoons. " often by trying to cram in what the writers think is intellectual or insightful writing.
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[Sinner's Sandwich]

Their jobs being those that free men to do more crucial aspects of war

like dying in a fiery explosion & getting trench foot

 

[Yamma Damma]

Bojack inspired maybe only one imitator and that was tucca and bertie. And calling that show an imitator is dubious at best the only comparison you can make is that it's a slice of life adult cartoon. Only instead of a washed up Hollywood has been the show focuses on a single girl in her 30s (again projection much?) Trying to get her life on order.

Tuca & Birdie was made by Lisa Hanawalt, one of the producers and the production designer for BoJack Horseman. Was also animated by the same studio so it's no wonder they look the same but have different vibes. T&B can better be described as 20-something to 30-something bird women being emotionally-challenged nymphomaniacs in a trippy world. For once netflix was right to only give it one season. [AS] was noble but stupid to renew it.

Conversely after Rick and morty took off, how many adult cartoons have tried to be simplistic sci fi comedies that try to be more than just "silly sci-fi cartoons. " often by trying to cram in what the writers think is intellectual or insightful writing.
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After Rick & Morty? Damn near all of them.
Before them though? "Bravest Warriors" maybe???? It was like a hybrid of both points. I know "Tripping the Rift" tried but was bogged down by too much frat humor to be good (and was on SciFi Network which hardly anyone watched).

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

And despite all that she must wonder every night why her only "boyfriend" runs on AA's and there's not a man alive who wants to even look at her. I "coined" the term Weimar girls of animation...but let it be said that it applies to both the creations and creator.

Sometimes I wonder, do men and women like Kristen Gish ever stop and take a good, long look at themselves?

Like, do they ever stop and ponder why people think they’re losers?

 

[A Grey Cat]

You know, sometimes I wonder do men and women like Kristen Gish ever stop and take a good, long look at themselves?

Like, do they stop and wonder why people call them losers? Dorks, ect.

They don't need to wonder. If you legit would rather have a highly exaggerated and distorted version of reality. (As she so colorfully pointed out) you're already fucked up beyond all belief.


Hey Kristen your little comic about preferfering fantasy men over the real thing? It's no different than guys who want lolis, catgirls, vampire and monster girls over real women because real women are supposedly lying, manipulative, naggy, and other assumptions about them based on dubious claims at best.

So go ahead keep waiting for your scaly fishman Adonis or Edward in sparkly armor to come along and protect you from the Cosbys and wienstiens of the world...I just hope you stocked up on batteries.

 

[AnOminous]

Who is she talking about? Paging @Steamboat_Bill and any others who frequent John K's thread.

John K is a giant pedophile. Most of the details are in the OP.

I'm assuming she's just referring to anyone who worked on Ren and Stimpy in general, and how they're all just a bunch of Sexist Male Gazing Creeps.

Hasn't John K done caricatures at conventions? It may just specifically be him. He's the main one with a reputation like that.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Speaking of johnny boy, you know his infamous ren and stimpy adult party cartoon? While that show has a lot material that was cut before it ever say the ink and paint process. One unproduced segment was something along the lines of The succubus.


Going by the pitched name and the plot of it being about a cartoonist trying to work only for a titular succubus to distract him by constantly slutting up on him begging to screw. It was basically gonna be John's side of the whole Robyn Byrd story.


I mean... wow johnny boy. I know there's two sides to every story but you not only had the balls to victim blame someone but victim blame them on national television and in the most childish and petty ways...I mean that's Chris Chan levels of "they started it!" Crying.


Guess that's another good reason we can add spike canceling Apc to the list.

 

[AnOminous]

Going by the pitched name and the plot of it being about a cartoonist trying to work only for a titular succubus to distract him by constantly slutting up on him begging to screw. It was basically gonna be John's side of the whole Robyn Byrd story.

And this is Robyn Byrd.

The thing pretty much speaks for itself. He started grooming her when she was 13.

 

[TVB]

And this is Robyn Byrd.
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The thing pretty much speaks for itself. He started grooming her when she was 13.

Don't forget to add Katie Rice as John met Katie at her age of 12, and she worked with him in a couple music videos by Weird Al and Tenacious D before her big break in Adult Party Cartoon, especially the Naked Beach Frenzy episode. She also confessed that John was also grooming her.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Whenever people talk about the creator of Ren and Stimpy I'm reminded of the creator of Invader Zim, who also did edgy shit but, at least as far as I'm aware, wasn't a creep.

 

[TVB]

Whenever people talk about the creator of Ren and Stimpy I'm reminded of the creator of Invader Zim, who also did edgy shit but, at least as far as I'm aware, wasn't a creep.

Well yea, Jhonen Vazquez appears to be a very chill, very polite guy. Even the cast and crew, and especially Nick, love the guy so much, so you can't really blame him.

While John K., Dan Schneider and Butch Hartman both had skeletons in their respective closets, only two of the three are complete groomers while Hartman became a snake and an evangelical schizo, as shown in his failed Oaxis Kickstarter stream five years ago. My god, Nick is full of mentally ill people, which isn't surprising.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Say what you want about butch and trust me WE have. He may be arrogant, an idiot, a liar, and a grifter but at least he's not a sexual deviant. And to some extent he was kinda right in saying he made your childhood. Which makes me hope being a zealot that loves Jesus a little TOO much is the worst of his negative personality traits.