Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Vyse Inglebard]

Butter Battle Book

Wait....HE MADE THAT?! THAT WAS ONE OF MY CHILDHOOD FAVES!

*looks it up*

There was an animated TV special by animator and filmmaker Ralph Bakshi, narrated by Charles Durning and produced by and aired on TNT on November 13, 1989.[1] The special followed the book closely, notably in its preservation of its original cliffhanger ending, with the title card "The end... maybe" at the conclusion of the story. Seuss himself called the short the most faithful adaptation of his work.

Well, I'll be damned....make that 3 good things, then.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Wait....HE MADE THAT?! THAT WAS ONE OF MY CHILDHOOD FAVES!

*looks it up*


Well, I'll be damned....make that 3 good things, then.

Ever heard about how Bakshi fired Dr. Seuss off his own special?

 

[Dark Emporer Dood]

Ever heard about how Bakshi fired Dr. Seuss off his own special?

Cant be as bad when Jones and Kelly tried to make a Pogo adaptation, only for Jones to constantly alter it behind Kellys back.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Cant be as bad when Jones and Kelly tried to make a Pogo adaptation, only for Jones to constantly alter it behind Kellys back.

Well, Bakshi was kind of like that. He fired Eddie Fitzgerald one day on Mighty Mouse, hired him back when Eddie said he had a family to support, and when he came in the next day Ralph said "Didn't I fire you? Get the hell out!"

But Walt Kelly wasn't pleased with the Chuck Jones Pogo special. He said it was full of things "that Chuck thinks is Disney, but isn't" - and he would know. He worked there.

 

[Yamma Damma]

I'm just glad they didn't make her a bloated fat dangerhair, or give her the "Ms. Keene treatmeant" and double mastectoming her bust. it looks like she still has something of chest and isn't being made into a girl power/body positivity symbol.

and i say this as someone sick of seeing character designs like these
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get touted as "The future of western animation" (whether we like it or not)

I want to believe this version of "the future of western animation" has came and went. It's the start of a new decade and society as a whole was forced to change (for better and worse) so almost every single cartoon coming soon or next year will be dated and more eye-rolling than ever. In my opinion (if the ratings for Nick/CN/Disney Channel are any indication), the future of animation is indie shit. And expect a few more reboots to fall on their collective asses (though I hope the He-Man reboot won't be that bad).

I hate what the magical girl genre has done to western animation, or rather how the magical girl genre is poorly aped by western animators.

Between these two pictures, among other examples, modern art styles have gotten more incestuous than an Alabama family reunion.

"Animated Inbreeding" is more appropriate now than it was with the Disney clones of old. Shit makes me miss the Goodtimes/Jetlag movies.

Don't blame the magic girls, any monkey with a typewriter and pencil can make the next Madoka. Blame the true stereotype that Americans are lazy shits who need tragedy to make anything good of themselves. Why else would they banshee scream about pointless repREEEsentation and DIEversity that's always been there while ignoring real problems like burnout and investors having too much power? They NEED to suffer to make "good" art, even if it's self-inflicted or imaginary.

I get that some of this style is used on TV for practicality reasons (easy to draw and animate in Toonboom), but theres no excuse as to why the indie comic scene uses this style so much, let alone an identical color palette of blues, purples, and that off-pink color. It used to be that we mocked anime for all looking the same, now look at what we produce!

It's the same reason as animation: it's cheaper and faster.

Comics is also where reject cartoon pilots go to survive in some way shape or form. That way only people who read can know how good or bad your idea was.

 

[Dark Emporer Dood]

Blame the true stereotype that Americans are lazy shits who need tragedy to make anything good of themselves. Why else would they banshee scream about pointless repREEEsentation and DIEversity that's always been there while ignoring real problems like burnout and investors having too much power? They NEED to suffer to make "good" art, even if it's self-inflicted or imaginary.

Back in ye old racist and sexist 40's there was a strike at Disney in part because Uncle Walt grossly underpaid and overworked women artists.
If anything I'd argue that animations more gated than ever.

I do enjoy the artificial "suffering", like trying to make cartoons "art" (which they've always been), extremely sanitary and kid friendly (because we gave up on parenting at that point), but you do raise a good point on the issues that everyone ignores (investors, organizations, companies gobbling each other up left and right)

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Back in ye old racist and sexist 40's there was a strike at Disney in part because Uncle Walt grossly underpaid and overworked women artists.
If anything I'd argue that animations more gated than ever.

I do enjoy the artificial "suffering", like trying to make cartoons "art" (which they've always been), extremely sanitary and kid friendly (because we gave up on parenting at that point), but you do raise a good point on the issues that everyone ignores (investors, organizations, companies gobbling each other up left and right)

The very few women artists there were in those days. Most women in animation's golden age did the ink and paint.

 

[Kulee Baba]

I want to believe this version of "the future of western animation" has came and went. It's the start of a new decade and society as a whole was forced to change (for better and worse) so almost every single cartoon coming soon or next year will be dated and more eye-rolling than ever. In my opinion (if the ratings for Nick/CN/Disney Channel are any indication), the future of animation is indie shit. And expect a few more reboots to fall on their collective asses (though I hope the He-Man reboot won't be that bad).



"Animated Inbreeding" is more appropriate now than it was with the Disney clones of old. Shit makes me miss the Goodtimes/Jetlag movies.

Don't blame the magic girls, any monkey with a typewriter and pencil can make the next Madoka. Blame the true stereotype that Americans are lazy shits who need tragedy to make anything good of themselves. Why else would they banshee scream about pointless repREEEsentation and DIEversity that's always been there while ignoring real problems like burnout and investors having too much power? They NEED to suffer to make "good" art, even if it's self-inflicted or imaginary.



It's the same reason as animation: it's cheaper and faster.

Comics is also where reject cartoon pilots go to survive in some way shape or form. That way only people who read can know how good or bad your idea was.

Personally I blame the decade prior for the downturn of Western Animation, I particularly blame Adventure Time. Now I have to admit I am totally pulling a John K here (as in being an ignorant grumpy nerd critic, not a rapist predator) because I've hardly watched Adventure Time. But what little I saw hardly impressed me and it definitely didn't inspire me to watch more than a single episode. I think the art designs in Adventure Time were crude and ugly (okay the sentient Gameboy was cute) and I wasn't impressed by any writing.

Adventure Time did well with the kid demographic because the truth any parent knows is that children will watch any stupid fucking cartoon the TV Broadcasts. It's the reason I would happily watch the painfully boring Garfield cartoon and why generations prior would sit thru the worst of Hannah-Barbera's catalog or Clutch Cargo. A little kid really doesn't have much taste for quality, my favorite cartoon character growing up was Bugs Bunny and I would happily watch the worst Bugs Bunny cartoons made in the 60s and 70s with no regard for how bad the animation was or how Mel Blanc's Bugs voice was clearly shot to hell.

The big problem was Adventure Time was also extremely well received by an adult audience, showing that a major portion of grownup viewership doesn't particularly care for quality either. As long as a cartoon is style over substance it will entertain a decent adult populace. Adventure Time in its heyday was very big in terms of internet memes, screencaps of goofy faces and gifs of the characters moving wildly with their noodle limbs made it very popular on 4chan & Reddit. Memes demonstrate a basic appeal, but they hardly demonstrate quality. Just look at the 90s "Memes" of Simpsonmania where Bart Simpson was printed on countless T-Shirts. The Simpsons wasn't a great cartoon because Bart Simpson was a cute boy with a bratty attitude, The Simpsons was great because it had well written social satire and characters with pathos.

But I digress, Adventure Time was the spawning ground of the most toxic kids cartoon, the LGBTBBQ suckfest propaganda of Rebecca Sugar's Stephen Universe. Kiwifarms user Oddguy has done multiple brilliant lampoonings of how poorly made that show is. I also think Adventure Time was used as a primary inspiration for Cartoon Network's derivative Teen Titans Go at least in terms of art design.

I don't think I'm naively optimistic in thinking that there will be great artists in the future who will be given the freedom and budget to make some good entertainment. It will require a network head to be willing to put their neck on the line and produce a product that will be too expensive to produce unless it's an overnight sensation. There surely are some young people in the industry who want to make something great. I think it's more a question of "When?" than "If?"

One thing I hope really happens though is the death of "4th wall" breaking metahumor. I think Dan Harmon has made me utterly loathe that type of comedy as he clearly thinks it's a substitute for well written comedy. "Community" and "Rick & Morty" were both solid TV Shows and then he just covers a thin premise by relying excessively on 4th Wall Breaks. Personally I think it breaks immersion and relatability to the characters when you just keep pointing out how your TV Show is just a TV Show.

 

[OmnipotentStupidity]

The very few women artists there were in those days. Most women in animation's golden age did the ink and paint.

"Reminder to never stick your paintbrush into the ink and paint."
- Uncle Walt

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Comics is also where reject cartoon pilots go to survive in some way shape or form. That way only people who read can know how good or bad your idea was.

I guess it's too much to ask to see a comic adaptation of rejected cartoon pilots like Constant Panye and the Modifyers.

 

[Coolio55]

I guess it's too much to ask to see a comic adaptation of rejected cartoon pilots like Constant Panye and the Modifyers.

Constant Payne is locked up in network politics and Modifyers can never happen because Chris Reccardi is actually fucking dead. (Died last year, was a true gut-punch)

 

[Dark Emporer Dood]

I don't think I'm naively optimistic in thinking that there will be great artists in the future who will be given the freedom and budget to make some good entertainment. It will require a network head to be willing to put their neck on the line and produce a product that will be too expensive to produce...

One thing I hope really happens though is the death of "4th wall" breaking metahumor. Personally I think it breaks immersion and relatability to the characters when you just keep pointing out how your TV Show is just a TV Show.

I think the next great artist will be someone who works outside of the networks (or at least outside of the US), theres plenty of artists that want to do good work, they just don't all "fit in" the work environment, they haven't paid $100k+ to some expensive art school owned by a woman with several fancy mansions, they haven't learned Adobe CS9, they haven't paid tribute to a black organization, they haven't dyed their hair or formed a manbun, they haven't slept with enough employees yet. Only THEN, do you get your foot in the door and deal with the networks!

4th Wall humor is just the next form of fart jokes, the only difference is that it makes people feel smart.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Western Animators took all the wrong lessons from the magical girl genre and sailor moon in particular. The first incorrect lesson they took was that it was written by a dude bro animating his fantasies. It's not. It was actually done by a woman who was looking to animate various facets of femininity as exemplified by the various Senshi. Sailor Moon herself needed all these facets to win as she was dumb as a box of rocks, absolutely sucked at romance, was a coward, and hated fighting. Of course this is what made the series interesting, as the main protagonist was interesting and needed to explore all these things to unlock her full potential. Usagi started out as your average preteen girl all hormonal and silly. You know, like EVERY preteen girl on the planet.

Girls could actually identify with Usagi because she presented a far more realistic depiction of what life is like, and what girl doesnt want to go from bland and boring to sparkling and attractive. The boys could get on board because there was decent action, the art was nice too look at, and the show didnt spend every episode shitting on them. Quite the opposite in fact, another major theme of the show is that women NEED the masculine force in their lives as personified by the Tuxedo Mask character.

It's a very far cry from the shoveled shit that is strong independent wahmen who need no man and are good at everything. Which comes across as the propaganda it is rather then a compelling narrative.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Western Animators took all the wrong lessons from the magical girl genre and sailor moon in particular. The first incorrect lesson they took was that it was written by a dude bro animating his fantasies. It's not. It was actually done by a woman who was looking to animate various facets of femininity as exemplified by the various Senshi. Sailor Moon herself needed all these facets to win as she was dumb as a box of rocks, absolutely sucked at romance, was a coward, and hated fighting. Of course this is what made the series interesting, as the main protagonist was interesting and needed to explore all these things to unlock her full potential. Usagi started out as your average preteen girl all hormonal and silly. You know, like EVERY preteen girl on the planet.

Girls could actually identify with Usagi because she presented a far more realistic depiction of what life is like, and what girl doesnt want to go from bland and boring to sparkling and attractive. The boys could get on board because there was decent action, the art was nice too look at, and the show didnt spend every episode shitting on them. Quite the opposite in fact, another major theme of the show is that women NEED the masculine force in their lives as personified by the Tuxedo Mask character.

It's a very far cry from the shoveled shit that is strong independent wahmen who need no man and are good at everything. Which comes across as the propaganda it is rather then a compelling narrative.

Try explaining this to any of these western "animators" and watch their brain short-circuit as they "correct" you about how PROBLEMATIC and OUTDATED all of the stuff that you said is.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Constant Payne is locked up in network politics and Modifyers can never happen because Chris Reccardi is actually fucking dead. (Died last year, was a true gut-punch)

Well, Lynne Naylor finally got her own show, so that's something.

 

[Yamma Damma]

Try explaining this to any of these western "animators" and watch their brain short-circuit as they "correct" you about how PROBLEMATIC and OUTDATED all of the stuff that you said is.

And then watch their shitstains on paper they call "art" do nothing to change the culture for the better (or worst) and fail to be the next [insert household name here]. And then life goes on.

Well, Lynne Naylor finally got her own show, so that's something.

Yeah but if I had to pick between a wacky comedy with talking random objects acting goofy (again) and a secret agent girl saving a steampunk-styled world:

It's almost no contest. However in a fairer world, we could've had both.

 

[Steamboat_Bill]

Yeah but if I had to pick between a wacky comedy with talking random objects acting goofy (again) and a secret agent girl saving a steampunk-styled world:
View attachment 1800382View attachment 1800383
It's almost no contest. However in a fairer world, we could've had both.

Unfortunately we don't live in that world so you have to take what you can get. She should have had a show before now. Chris Reccardi should have had a show, period. But that's not how things worked out.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

I guess it's too much to ask to see a comic adaptation of rejected cartoon pilots like Constant Panye and the Modifyers.

“Huh, never heard of those, let’s look up the first one.”
“The first hit’s a Wikia page for it, and- what the fuck kind of fresh hell did I just stumble across?”

Literally, Google’s very first result for this is an absurd, autism-filled Wikia about “Mitchell Van Morgan”, a fan-made Nicktoon about some kid’s self-insert.

This is for the latest and greatest news of the Mitchell Van Morgan. This topic is all about Mitchell Van Morgan franchise. This story is about an autisic, epileptic & moderate African-American manga artist named Mitchell Van Morgan.

Mitchell Van Morgan is the main franchise created by Nickelodeon Japan, currently networked by it's original home channel "Nickelodeon" and is owned by Viacom. The franchise centers on nickelodeon worldwide. The Protagonist of the series is an autistic, epileptic, moderate, anti-epileptic, anticonvulsive, tough, cool, fair, careless, street-smart, sonic-fast, actually cool and i.e.-skilled African-American manga artist Mitchell Van Morgan, whose peaceful life is interrupted by the series' main antagonist, Marquessa. An african-american doctor who looks like a rapboy wannabe who plans to conquer the world are always foiled by Mitchell. Mitchell serves as Nickelodeon's Mascot, Nickelodeon flagship character and a nicktoon star along with his relatives.

Mitchell Van Morgan is a popular children's anime-influenced animated nicktoon and a 3D-action/adventure, fighting, platformer nickelodeon videogame series made by Nickelodeon Japan. This story takes place in Planet Earth, Mitchell's videogame never-never land world called "The Super Mitchell Land", North Carolina(United States) and this story is about an autistic, epileptic, moderate, anti-epileptic, anticonvulsive, careless, street-smart, peacefully tough, sophisticatedly fast and I.e.-skilled African-American teenage manga artist named Mitchell Van Morgan and his past, present and future.

This main artical is about the Mitchell Van Morgan series. This is only for the protagonist of the series, Mitchell Van Morgan(Who will use the power of gems called The Power Stones for good, bring peace to planet earth, his benevolent desires and his herioc purposes) and the antagonist of the series, Marquessa(Who will use the Power Stones for evil, to conquer the world, his malevolent desires and his villainous purposes).

While nickelodeon was seeking a flagship series to compete with nintendo's mario series, they're were several character designs are submitted by Nickelodeon Animation Studios' research and developement department. While nickelodeon was seeking a flagship series to compete with nintendo's mario series, they choose Mitchell Van Morgan to rival the nintendo's mario series

Most pages are just Sonic wiki pages with name-replacements at the start, then the author completely gives up and just keeps the Sonic names completely intact, they couldn’t even pay attention to their own ripoff bullshit.

 

[sasazuka]

@Crescent Fresh

Mitchell Van Morgan is a popular children's anime-influenced animated nicktoon and a 3D-action/adventure, fighting, platformer nickelodeon videogame series made by Nickelodeon Japan.

This was probably written in 2008, when the Wiki went online. Ironically, Nickelodeon Japan went off the air in 2009.

 

[Private Pyle]

Unfortunately we don't live in that world so you have to take what you can get. She should have had a show before now. Chris Reccardi should have had a show, period. But that's not how things worked out.

She should have had a show before but the sexism rampant in the industry made it impossible.
Just ask Rebecca Sugar or Dana Terrace.