What are some of your "warning sign" bands? - When you hear someone says they like X band then it's time to ask for the check.

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It just means that they're not metal
What is metal then?
I understand this isn't metal? Why? Which musical element in it makes it not metal? And if it's not metal, what is it? Nu metal? What makes it nu metal exactly? And is this something that other bands in the nu metal genre share with Slipknot? And if other nu metal bands don't share it, what genre are they?

You can't treat a genre label as something to label the bands you don't like as something pejorative, because then your bazillion of different subgenres of metal are as meaningless as the "nu metal" label. Either all genre labels hold a meaning genre labels are supposed to hold, or none of them do.

By the end of the day, this snobby dismissal of songs and bands over genres is all down to listeners who use music as a replacement for a personality. Ozzy Osbourne, the granddaddy of metal, had no issue with nu metal and liked a lot of the bands from that time, including Slipknot, who he helped to promote with Ozzfest. And he still considered those bands metal. Not something special or new, but he considered them as metal and liked them.

Unless, of course, Ozzy's words are now meaningless and he's also not metal, because he liked the wrong thing, and he was never anyone important and yadda yadda. ;)
 
Muse, Depeche Mode, and Infected Mushroom are okay by themselves to me, and I like a few of their songs. But if they like all three I'm banking on it being a Fat Genderspecial Autist girl who role plays on tumblr and goes off about how "Kweer" she and her characters are.
 
I enjoy jam music. I grew up loving Phish, Grateful Dead, String Cheese Incident, you get the idea. But man do I hate some jamband fans. I'm almost reluctant to call them fans, because they can be such a mixed bag. While I've met some great people and made lifelong friends on tour, I've ran into my fair share of shysters, ne'er-do-wells, and assholes. But the absolute worst are the gatekeepers. You've got people who gatekeep the music like it is their sworn duty to defend. I've seen so many younger people come out to jam shows in recent years that get turned off from going back because of the old heads that scoff, mock, and often times lecture "newbies" on how to behave and react. I'll share some examples:

1. In 2012, I was 17 and on my yearly summer tour to see Phish. I was going to start in Cincinnati, OH on June 22nd and work my way all the way up to Saratoga Springs, NY where the band was playing July 4th weekend. In between, I had stops in Pittsburgh, Cuyahoga Falls, Noblesville, East Troy, and Wantagh. In Noblesville, they played one of my favorite songs called "Waves". At that point, it wasn't really a new song, but it wasn't particularly old either. I was up in the lawn and started chatting it up with some older fans who had some great weed. They were talking about seeing the group back in the 90s and telling old tour stories. They were nice, but I could tell they weren't fans of anything the band did after the 90s. So when "Waves" starts, I get excited and let out a little "Woo!" out of excitement. I'll never forget these two guys looking back at me with such disgust and anger like they were staring into my soul. After the show ended, I was feeling pretty good and said to them "Great show, huh?" and got the biggest scoff in response. Telling me to not go to anymore shows if I was going to cheer for shitty songs instead of "the good old stuff".

2. My first Grateful Dead show was in March 2010 in Chicago. My dad, despite not liking the Dead, took me to see Furthur. I was super excited to see them and ended up getting a ton of merch. I was all decked out and enjoying life. Anyone who knows the Grateful Dead or any of its offshoots knows it attracts a mixed age crowd, but you'll often find wrinkles and grey hair. Most of them are super chill and love to talk to their fellow show goers. Not this old bastard who was sitting next to me, though. He couldn't stand having a 15 year old kid who was experiencing his first show. A lot of the typical Deadhead gatekeeper comments like "It was better with Jerry" and "They played better back in the 70s when I first saw them". I eventually told him to just chill out and enjoy it, but he ended up shoving his way past my father and I to leave. His loss, he ended up missing a killer second set.

3. This one actually happened a few years ago when concerts were starting to come back after the pandemic. I had gotten my wife and I tickets to see Phish in Noblesville for their 2020 summer tour. Well, that got postponed by a year. By the time 2021 came around, I hadn't seen Phish in 4 years. Last time I saw them as in 2017 at Madison Square Garden for their 13 show residency that summer. At this point, I was just happy concerts were back and I was chomping at the bit to get back. There were a lot of younger people, much more than normal. A lot of them were very early teenagers but there was a couple of 11 or 12 year olds too. I thought awesome, the music is being shared by the parents and their kids are into it. Again, we're in the lawn and sitting next to a family of 4. Mom and dad were big fans and their fandom transferred to their two girls. We exchanged pleasantries and after a while, the band came out to start the show. Well, the girls were very excited and were squealing with joy. Annoying? A little, but they're kids who have probably dealt with a lot of shit over the last year and I'm not gonna be a dick. Halfway through the opening number, someone behind the family tapped the dad on his shoulder and said "If you don't shut your kids up, I'll do it for you. Your kids don't belong at a Phish show". Boy was that the WRONG dad to fuck with. Dude got sucker punched and the immediate group around the family (myself and wife included) gathered around them for protection. We ended up being friends for the weekend and their girls would often bump into me while dancing. They were awesome, can't say the same for the dude who wanted to lay his hands on little kids.
 
But the absolute worst are the gatekeepers. You've got people who gatekeep the music like it is their sworn duty to defend.
While gatekeeping is fine, jam music seems like the weirdest yet makes the most sense, considering it lends itself to a more pretentious crowd like jazz does.
 
While gatekeeping is fine, jam music seems like the weirdest yet makes the most sense, considering it lends itself to a more pretentious crowd like jazz does.

I suppose it depends on your definition of gatekeeping. For a community that often prides itself on inclusivity and acceptance, there’s an awful lot of people that want to exclude and reject based on random parameters.

I agree with your assessment about pretentiousness. It gets annoying after a while, especially if you’re just there to enjoy a band and have fun.
 
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I suppose it depends on your definition of gatekeeping. For a community that often prides itself on inclusivity and acceptance, there’s an awful lot of people that want to exclude and reject based on random parameters.

I agree with your assessment about pretentiousness. It gets annoying after a while, especially if you’re just there to enjoy a band and have fun.
The "inclusive and acceptance" in a community is like the "we're a family" type business. Both end up having an obscene amount of drama and illegal activities going on.

And yeah, it does get annoying.
 
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For me their attitude will matter a lot. They can like the worst garbage, like numetal, but if they're the "safe edgy" type then I'm ditching the moment something like this happens (which is usually a matter of when, not if):
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Sorry that this one band didn't say trans lives matter or whatever, no I won't stop listening to them because I'm not retarded
RABM is, quite bluntly, a forced meme.
It's surprising to me that there isn't a community lolcow thread about RABM, as niche as it is it's genuinely almost always cringe inducing (especially with how much reddit loves them for sticking it to chuds)
 
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For me their attitude will matter a lot. They can like the worst garbage, like numetal, but if they're the "safe edgy" type then I'm ditching the moment something like this happens (which is usually a matter of when, not if):
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Sorry that this one band didn't say trans lives matter or whatever, no I won't stop listening to them because I'm not retarded

It's surprising to me that there isn't a community lolcow thread about RABM, as niche as it is it's genuinely almost always cringe inducing (especially with how much reddit loves them for sticking it to chuds)
Why do they autistically care about whether or not an extreme metal band has extreme views on politics? There's bands who have members who are pedophiles, yet for some reason some dude in his bedroom recording an album is where these folks draw the line.

Also RABM is cringe, and only a reactionary genre to NSBM.
 
I have listened to many classical composers and attended a symphony performance of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, which is a masterpiece and a testament to human achievement.

Django Reinhardt is another personal favorite.
Though I like all kinds of music from Metal to Western swing. If got a beat for my feet to tap to. I'll listen to it.
 
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P!nk: If they’re men, they’re balding gays in their 30s. If they’re women, they’re usually always 40 year old wine-guzzling soccer moms who have kids named Kaleigh and Brandon that they pick up from soccer practice in their Toyota Camry, either work in HR or are stay-at-home moms who watch The View, say “I don’t see color!” when the topic of black people comes up, frequently use THC gummies or carts for stress but too embarrassed to openly admit it, very much pick-me with internalized misogyny (like P!nk), definitely went to a Fifty Shades book club in 2012, and probably have undiagnosed Munchausen by Proxy. They also all identify as liberal but many would cry if their kid came out as gay and would instead troon them out to look progressive.
 
What about the Sex Pistols? I can't imagine anyone currently liking their edgelord antics.
"No Feelings" is a great song and I will die on that hill.

Was punk and the Sex Pistols specifically always silly nihilistic posturing? Sure. But a whole lot of fun music is some kind of silly posturing - Kerry King of Slayer doesn't wear his nail-studded wrists bands in the shower.
 
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Imagine walking into a thread about negative things about genres/bands and then complaining that people judge genres/bands. Fuck that pussy ass positivity shit.
"No Feelings" is a great song and I will die on that hill.

Was punk and the Sex Pistols specifically always silly nihilistic posturing? Sure. But a whole lot of fun music is some kind of silly posturing - Kerry King of Slayer doesn't wear his nail-studded wrists bands in the shower.
I do enjoy the Pistols a lot more now actually, they had some potential in them apart from the image.
 
Bright Eyes.
Forgive the tangent. That one song of theirs that is really popular is (blatantly) about using an emotionally damaged girl for sex then dropping her.

If you go to the comment sections for this song, the fangirls are like: "omg this so saaadd i love it <3" seemingly oblivious to fuckboy message that they'd scoff at if it was in a pop song. It's like how most people think The Plain White T's "Rhythm of Love" is a romantic song when it's about banging a woman and never seeing her again.

Bright Eyes appeals to girls who think they're complex and analytical, but aren't yet. They hate vapid mainstream music, so they choose to listen to the same exact shit with a different sound. So as long as you have a singer sounding sad and some Indie-tier guitar, the average female retard will think it's a deeply heartfelt ballad… even though it's about humpin'n'dumpin a bitch, or trying to sleep with a rape victin.

I've enjoyed the couple of songs I've heard from Bright Eyes just for how unapologetically fucked up they are. There again, their lyrics should be unnerving and disgusting to the fans rather than innately appealing.
 
And speaking of narrow minded labels, nu metal. People hate it, people say it's not metal, and a shitton of bands from the 90's and 2000's got lumped under that name. But I want someone to tell me, between Slipknot, Mudvayne, Static-X, Disturbed, Korn and Linkin Park, what is the one musical element they all have in common that makes them nu metal? Because each of those bands has a very distinct sound to them.
Mentioning all the nu-metal buttrocks classics, but refusing to mention Mushroomhead. The true king of late 90's-early 2000's nu-metal buttrock. Shame.
 
Pop country: You're a basic suburban country girl who shops at Target, buys Stanley cups and probably has a BF who's blue collar and drives a lifted pavement queen truck with punisher decals on it.

Taylor Swift: 25+ years old with the emotional maturity of a 15 year old. Still not over your first breakup from high school.

Kpop stan: You've been completely brainrotted by Twitter. That is all.

Shinedown/Five Finger Death Punch/ other modern numetal acts: Your name is Kyle and there's a good chance you're dating the pop country fan. Basic bros attract basic bitches.

Tejano/Ranchero/whateverthefuck the accordian-bass Mexican music is called: You barely know English and there's a 50-50 chance you're not even a US citizen.

Tiktok meme music: You can't put your phone down for 5 seconds and the TikTok algorithm controls your mind. Not one original thought can be found in your head.

Sabaton: You're Chudjak IRL. If you're under 18, you're always getting into arguments with equally ill informed leftists and listening to you argue kills brain cells.

Of course I'm totally not a fan of any of the red flag bands listed here and neither is my gf. Nope, no hypocrisy here.
 
I enjoy jam music. I grew up loving Phish, Grateful Dead, String Cheese Incident, you get the idea. But man do I hate some jamband fans. I'm almost reluctant to call them fans, because they can be such a mixed bag. While I've met some great people and made lifelong friends on tour, I've ran into my fair share of shysters, ne'er-do-wells, and assholes. But the absolute worst are the gatekeepers.
I made a post in reference to jam band types about a year back, and I found your experiences very interesting, as mine have been almost the inverse of yours. (Though, it might be because I'm mostly talking about musicians here.)

Across the board, non-musician fans I've met are pretty chill, maybe a little basic bitch and/or hipstery at absolute worst.

All of the older musician fans I've met are super solid people. Maybe not the most skilled, talented, or cool, but always go out of their way to be helpful to others. The kind of guys who have a regular day job, play in local bands, host open mic nights at bars around town, actually work at venues or teach instrument classes, etc.


The younger ones, however, are some of the most pretentious, insufferable, unwarrantedly egotistical people I've ever met in my life. They're the opposite of gatekeepers though, more like evangelicals. They come in three flavors:

A.) Impotent Elitist Dickhead. A guy I know who falls into this category once went on an fuming angry tirade to me about how all people who aren't into jam band music are like that because all they care about is instant gratification and are literally too intellectually inferior to grasp how good bands like Phish are.

Lazy, thoroughly mediocre bordering on complete shit players whose entire musical mentality is literal coping and seething about the reality that people who put more time and effort in are better than them, even if their tastes might not be considered artsy and high-brow. Usually a stereotypical Redditor in terms of tastes in everything else. Basically, guys who took up acoustic guitar to get pussy in college then fell for their own bullshit over the years.

B.) Stoned Retard. Much nicer on the whole, but borderline useless. I've met people who have been playing their instruments for years who can't even begin to tell you what keys are where, and constantly have some kind of reference sheet in front of them. Music to them is basically just getting high as balls on various substances and fucking around with effects and whatnot. Generally cool and fun to hang out with, but immediately 180° and get really pissed if you have any expectations that they learn anything and/or not get completely wasted halfway though a jam session.

C.) Music Theory Autist. Actually talented, but has the mirror opposite problem of the first two. The kind of person who legit has a degree from Berklee or Juilliard, but expects everyone else to be on that level. Super aloof and difficult to work with, massive superiority complex. Basically the epitome of why people online give advice about "It doesn't matter how good or smart you are, you have to learn to be likeable to get anywhere".

Generally ends up going nowhere after years of work and shit-tons of money spent, because they refuse to accept that music isn't a math problem, and that having perfect pitch and knowing how to play every esoteric chord combination on every instrument is never going to magically make them not a weird, awkward autistic asshole that doesn't belong anywhere near a stage or a paying audience.


My overall theory with the elitism and abrasiveness we've both experienced is because of the improvisational nature of the jam band genre. Music (and performing arts in general) boils down to obsessively practicing something difficult to the point that you can do it in a way that seems effortlessly natural.

Most people realize that, but with bands like Phish and Grateful Dead, there's an emphasis on going off-the-cuff and just exploring where the music and the rest of the band takes you. Now, doing that well takes incredible musical knowledge and knowing your band mates extremely well, by way of shit-loads of practice. But, the fact that they are improvising makes this the wet dream of every drug-addled narcissistic hippie retard in the world, fantasizing that all there is to it is: These guys just get up on stage and just like, let the music just flow through them, maaaaaan.

The rest are people who understand the level of work and talent involved, but use that to ego-trip that this is the highest level of musical skill. More straightforward jazz-type elitism.

Basically all the examples that you gave were druggie hedonists and stuck-up pricks getting assmad that filthy casuals showed up to their super secret cool kids club.
 
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