KR What is the 4B feminist movement from S Korea that’s taking off in the US? - Trump’s win has led some US women to want to swear off men completely, following sexist remarks he has made in the past, a sexual abuse case against him and his stance on abortion.

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What is the 4B feminist movement from S Korea that’s taking off in the US? (archive)
Trump’s win has led some US women to want to swear off men completely, following sexist remarks he has made in the past, a sexual abuse case against him and his stance on abortion.

By: Sarah Shamim; Al Jazeera
Published: November 9th, 2024


A feminist movement sweeping South Korea, in which women are saying “No” to any form of intimate relationships with men, is taking hold in the United States following former President Donald Trump’s resounding victory in the presidential election.

So what is the 4B movement and why are American women turning to it now?

What is the 4B movement?
The 4B movement originally emerged from the fringes of the South Korean feminist movement.

It developed in South Korean feminist circles and on social media in the mid-to-late 2010s during a wave of violence against women in the country, and in protest over other manifestations of sexism and inequality in South Korean society.

4B is shorthand for four words that start with “bi”, which means “no” in Korean.

The movement calls for:
  • Bihon, which means no heterosexual marriage.
  • Bichulsan, no childbirth.
  • Biyeonae, no dating.
  • Bisekseu, no heterosexual sexual relationships.

Why did this movement emerge in South Korea?
Women are fed up with the scale of male violence in South Korean society.

A report published in 2018 showed that in the previous nine years, at least 824 women in South Korea had been killed and a further 602 were put at risk of death by violence at the hands of their intimate partners.

But there are also economic factors.

According to data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), South Korean men earn 31.2 percent more, on average, than women.

South Korean society also tends to be fairly conservative when it comes to families.

Ayo Wahlberg, a professor in the anthropology department at the University of Copenhagen, told Al Jazeera that the responsibility for the bulk of childcare and household chores, as well as taking care of the elderly, generally falls on the shoulders of women. But, with rising inflation, women also have little choice but to work outside of the home, meaning their responsibilities are doubled.

This has led to more women forgoing the prospect of having children while also making less money than their male spouses – a situation many say they find disheartening.

Meanwhile, the birthrate in South Korea continues to drop rapidly. In recent years, the country has had one of the lowest birthrates in the world. In February this year, Statistics Korea published data showing that the overall birthrate had dropped by 8 percent in 2023 to 0.72 children per woman in their lifetime compared with 0.78 in 2022. The low birthrate has been declared a national emergency.

‘Your body, my choice’: Why is the movement gathering interest in the US now?
Soon after it had become apparent that Trump had won the US presidential election this week, young women in the US took to social media platforms such as TikTok and X, encouraging other women to take inspiration from the 4B movement.

jungsooyawning.png

(Tweet / Nitter / archive)

While CNN’s exit poll suggested that Trump won 46 percent of the women’s vote and Harris won 54 percent, it also showed that Harris had won just 43.5 percent of the male vote compared with Trump’s 56.5 percent.

Young women on social media said they were disappointed that young men had voted for a candidate who they say does not respect their bodily autonomy.

To make matters worse, some Trump supporters, such as far-right political activist Nick Fuentes, started posting misogynistic messages on X such as the statement, “Your body, my choice.”

The message is a co-optation of “my body, my choice” a slogan used historically by feminists rallying for autonomy and reproductive rights.


How significant a role did women’s rights play in the US election?
The right to abortion was a major talking point in the lead-up to the election.

While the Democratic candidate, Kamala Harris, was banking on abortion being a big issue, it turned out to be much less of a decisive issue for voters than economic issues such as inflation, unemployment and the cost of living.

The election was the first presidential vote since the landmark 1973 Roe v Wade court ruling was overturned by the Supreme Court in 2022, ending women’s federal right to an abortion in the US. The decision on laws regarding abortion was reverted to individual states instead.

Trump claimed credit for the overturning of Roe v Wade, which was made possible by his appointments of three conservative judges to the top court.

Democrats campaigned in the belief that this would bring women out to vote for Harris. That position did not pay off entirely, however.

On Tuesday this week, as the election was in full swing, 10 states also voted on whether or not to enshrine the right to abortion in their constitutions. Of these, seven states passed the measures and three states did not.

What could happen to abortion once Trump is in power?
Trump has said that he would veto a federal abortion bill, preferring to leave the question of laws regarding the right to abortion down to individual states to decide.

However, fears now loom among women’s rights groups that he will be pressured by Republicans, who now control the Senate and the Supreme Court – and are close to controlling the House of Representatives as well – into making a federal abortion ban across the US a reality.

There are also fears that Trump’s administration could have the power to enforce an interpretation of the 1873 Comstock Act, which makes it a federal crime to sell and receive abortion-related medication or other materials. The law has not been enforced for decades.

Why are women so angry about Trump’s attitude towards them?
Many say Trump reveals a great deal about his general view of women through the comments he has made over the years.

Sexual abuse allegations
In May 2023, a US jury found Trump liable for sexually abusing journalist and author E Jean Carroll in the 1990s. Carroll had detailed the abuse in a memoir in 2019, after which Trump branded her a liar and called her story a “con job”. The court also found that he had defamed her and ordered him to pay damages of more than $83m.

In 2018, veteran journalist Bob Woodward wrote in his book, Fear: Trump in the White House, about a conversation between Trump and an unnamed friend of his, acknowledging bad behaviour towards women.

Trump was quoted saying: “You’ve got to deny, deny, deny and push back on these women. If you admit to anything and any culpability, then you’re dead … You’ve got to be strong. You’ve got to be aggressive. You’ve got to push back hard. You’ve got to deny anything that’s said about you. Never admit.”

Disparaging comments about Kamala Harris
Trump has made many controversial remarks about women, including his Democrat challenger and Vice President Kamala Harris.

After Harris inherited the Democrat presidential candidate ticket from Joe Biden earlier this year, Trump told Fox News, “[Harris] somehow – a woman – somehow she’s doing better than [President Joe Biden] did.”

He repeatedly attacked Harris’s intelligence, calling her “stupid” and “dumb” on various occasions.

Other controversial remarks
In June 2004, he said about his daughter, Ivanka Trump, “She does have a very nice figure … if [she] weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.” Ivanka was 23 or 24 at the time.

Earlier, soon after Princess Diana’s death in 1997, Trump told television personality Howard Stern in a radio interview that Diana was “beautiful” but “crazy”.

Stern asked Trump if he could have had a sexual relationship with Diana.

“I think I could have,” Trump replied, the Huffington Post reported.

And according to tapes that The Washington Post said it obtained from 2005, Trump admitted to sexual assault in a conversation with TV host Billy Bush, about women in general: “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful – I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.”

‘Childless cat lady’ comments
His Republican aides, including running mate JD Vance, have also made remarks deemed sexist. In July, comments Vance made about leaders in the Democratic Party in 2021 resurfaced. He said that the leaders of the party did not have children and were “a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they’ve made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable, too”.
 
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Saying a movement that encourages women to be bi or homosexual isn't sex positive is like saying the earth revolves around the sun isn't a heliocentric view of the solar system.
Sex-positive as in encouraging frequent, extreme and casual sex. Being in a monogamous, committed lesbian relationship is only disturbing to the most pearl-clutching conservitard.
John Money's concept of gender is the exact same as GCF's. Lmao. Both think gender identify isn't innate but malleable/cultural. As Simone said "“One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman," and she said that way before Money was abusing children.
Find me a single gender critical feminist who believes that a man can become a woman or vice-versa. Some gender critical perspectives view gender solely in regards to what expectations are placed on men and women. As for de Beauvoir herself, that quote is widely misattributed. In context, she isn't referring to the difference between a man and a woman, but a girl and a woman. A girl becomes a woman in the act of maturity and self-realisation. But sure, base your understanding of second-wave feminism on PhilosophyTube.
A radical feminist website has nothing to do with a movement that was spawned in American higher education. :story:
I hate to break it to you, but this isn't Metal Gear Solid. Things which you categorise together out of laziness don't all share a single point of origin, and feminism is not a monolith.
 
Right... And you replied to a post specifically about Korean gender politics and a Korean website for no reason?
This is a post about left/liberal-minded American women adopting a Korean feminist mindset that either spawned out of, or was heavily influenced by a Korean website. There is nothing for me to explain. I don't even know what answer you're looking for.
 
This is a post about left/liberal-minded American women adopting a Korean feminist mindset that either spawned out of, or was heavily influenced by a Korean website. There is nothing for me to explain. I don't even know what answer you're looking for.
You're on a forum, its time you learned the difference between a post and a thread.
 
Korean men are a wonderful cocktail of misogynist pricks who are completely railroaded by their harpy mothers who never want to cut the apron strings.

Attempting to imitate a cultural reaction when you're just a dumb whore in Nowhere City, USA who splurges on Taylor Swift tickets is peak Americentrism. They'll also call other Americans stupid and self centered with zero hint of irony.

Also, I love that we're ignoring almost half of Voting women picking Trump. Can't even hold other women accountable unless you're being neurotic about white women specifically. Great job.
 
The genetic dead ends will remove themselves from the dating pool. This can only be good for society, and the species at large. Please, if you are a woman who seriously thinks 4B is a good idea, do so. Remove yourself.
Homosexuals are under the misguided impression that women are under some sort of obligation to risk our lives and health in pregnancy and childbirth in order to supply you with children.

We're not.

If White men wanted women to have children, so White men don't go extinct, then White men shouldn't have spent the last thirty years or so scapegoating, denigrating and vilifying women and mothers or proclaiming yourselves to be the only parent of importance. After all. pregnancy, excruciating life-risking childbirth, breastfeeding, round the clock childcare, stitches, postnatal depression and mastitis, etc., is considerably more difficult and significantly more dangerous than ejaculating. So being utterly fucking vile towards women and mothers was a pretty stupid thing to do.

The 4B movement is nothing new.

Women were already choosing not to be mothers, in response to the toxicity towards mothers, long before the American election.

This is the chickens coming home to roost.
 
I dunno, women have complained that those MAGAchuds are just big racist, transphobic, meanie-heads but still voted for Trump.

Further, isn't this just admitting that women are ruled by their emotions?

What he posted was true. A lot of women, when you call them out or argue with them just resort name calling because they can't back up their arguments. Some can, but most can't.
The image literally refers to women as inferior holes, he could be right all he wants about women making those arguments, but it's not going to win anyone over. I've personally never had a woman make any of these arguments to me.

I think quite a lot of people would reasonably not want to be in the same political party as people who hate them, and refer to them as stupid holes.
 
Homosexuals are under the misguided impression that women are under some sort of obligation to risk our lives and health in pregnancy and childbirth in order to supply you with children.
No, no, dear, you misunderstand me. I don't want YOU to have children. Please, don't have any.

Women were already choosing not to be mothers, in response to the toxicity towards mothers, long before the American election.

This is the chickens coming home to roost.
I'm sure the Amish, the Mormons, and the general socially conservative whites, who are having children, care. Oh wait we don't. Do what you think you need to do, just don't be loud about it, and do it in the corner were we don't have to watch. Thank you!
 
I believe there is a concerted effort in the West from many sources, but especially the “Deep State”, to pit young men and women against each other so as to sow division and hatred among young White Americans and in turn gain more control by milking the radicals, radicals that have been produced from said manufactured division, for more intense forms of controlling laws therefore limiting freedoms and increased profits.
Porn, radical feminism, Andrew Tate, Nick and the catboys, Hollywood propaganda, the abortion industry, LGBTQIAPP+, all of these things and more pit young White men and women against each other only in service of destroying themselves.
 
The image literally refers to women as inferior holes, he could be right all he wants about women making those arguments, but it's not going to win anyone over. I've personally never had a woman make any of these arguments to me.

I think quite a lot of people would reasonably not want to be in the same political party as people who hate them, and refer to them as stupid holes.
Not all women are holes, holes are holes. I've seen holes make those excuses in arguments.

I think people need to learn the differences between loud minority, what a political party is actually about, and what does and doesn't apply to them (the individual).
 
Sex-positive as in encouraging frequent, extreme and casual sex. Being in a monogamous, committed lesbian relationship is only disturbing to the most pearl-clutching conservitard.
Problem with this is homosexual women are the mostly likely to not be in a monogamous, committed relationship. Lowest rate of marriage, highest rate of divorce. Even homosexual men are better at this than y'all. Like I said, sex positive.

Find me a single gender critical feminist who believes that a man can become a woman or vice-versa. Some gender critical perspectives view gender solely in regards to what expectations are placed on men and women. As for de Beauvoir herself, that quote is widely misattributed. In context, she isn't referring to the difference between a man and a woman, but a girl and a woman. A girl becomes a woman in the act of maturity and self-realisation. But sure, base your understanding of second-wave feminism on PhilosophyTube.
The basis view of gender is the same. The disagreement comes from the possibility changing of sex. Which is why you have tirfs and terfs. Oh, and Simone literally meant biological sex. Lmao, but nice try tarring me with troons like tube.

I hate to break it to you, but this isn't Metal Gear Solid. Things which you categorise together out of laziness don't all share a single point of origin, and feminism is not a monolith.
That isn't laziness, that simple accepted fact that radical feminism traces its origins to second wave feminists movements in higher education, and even before in the case of Simone. Tell if that isn't the case how the direct links don't exist.
 
Not all women are holes, holes are holes. I've seen holes make those excuses in arguments.

I think people need to learn the differences between loud minority, what a political party is actually about, and what does and doesn't apply to them (the individual).
I don't think that makes anything better. Most people would assume you are referring to all women as holes. Nick Fuentes, and his ilk would probably use it to refer to all women. It doesn't really matter the intent behind it, all that matters is that you are driving people away.

Imagine if the term 'moid' somehow broke out of its containment on this forum, and we had women on Twitter talking about how much they hate moids, you would reasonably assume that they are referring to most, if not all men. You would probably also not want to be associated with anything they do, ever.
 
The basis view of gender is the same. The disagreement comes from the possibility changing of sex.
Which is a vast difference. A TRA insists that men can become mothers, bring a child to term, nourish it with artificial breastmilk. Be considered, by all respects, female. The distinction made between "womanhood" and being female by second-wave feminists was simply that society enforced strict restrictions on what a woman could and could not be. Nothing biological prevents a woman from certain fields of employment, nothing innate to human women makes them subserviant to a husband. Those things are quite literally social constructs in a way that most TRA talking points simply aren't, without stretching the meaning of "social construct" beyond all use.
That isn't laziness, that simple accepted fact that radical feminism traces its origins to second wave feminists movements in higher education, and even before in the case of Simone. Tell if that isn't the case how the direct links don't exist.
Except my point was that the 4B movement is in no way descended from the likes of Dr Kinsey, but by all means move the goalposts if you think that makes me look stupid.
What will the gender crits do to prevent people from trying to transition to the opposite sex
The laws of nature prevent people from transitioning to the opposite sex. GCFs rally against trans identified males using female restrooms, participating in women's sports, being allowed within female prisons. You have the whole Internet at your disposal, why don't you try a cursory Google search?
 
Find me a single gender critical feminist who believes that a man can become a woman or vice-versa. Some gender critical perspectives view gender solely in regards to what expectations are placed on men and women. As for de Beauvoir herself, that quote is widely misattributed. In context, she isn't referring to the difference between a man and a woman, but a girl and a woman. A girl becomes a woman in the act of maturity and self-realisation. But sure, base your understanding of second-wave feminism on PhilosophyTube.

Beauvoir had a lot of other weird ideas. Like many french intellectuals in the 70'ies she was a pedo apologist, and campaigned to have the age of consent abolished. As in down to zero.

But contemporary terfs includes some very smart and very likeable people, thats undenible.

I don't think that makes anything better. Most people would assume you are referring to all women as holes. Nick Fuentes, and his ilk would probably use it to refer to all women. It doesn't really matter the intent behind it, all that matters is that you are driving people away.

Spic Fuentes should be kept away from children, and young men should watch their drinks closely in his presence.
 
Challenge accepted. Many men are already living life as if women never existed. So makes no difference if they decided to go this route. If anything, it will drive men quicker into the hands of porn and dolls. Which eventually will give way to robo-girls.

Crazy that topics on women replacement /pol/ was discussing has made its way to the mainstream.
 
I don't think that makes anything better. Most people would assume you are referring to all women as holes. Nick Fuentes, and his ilk would probably use it to refer to all women. It doesn't really matter the intent behind it, all that matters is that you are driving people away.
Not everybody is Nick Fuentes, thank god. Most people need to learn to stop taking offense when people talk about the ruinous actions of a small minority.

For all the talk of driving people away, they're still here with several new women joining. As if they didn't care what some people on the internet were saying, and were more concerned with their day to day life and the lives of their family.

Imagine if the term 'moid' somehow broke out of its containment on this forum, and we had women on Twitter talking about how much they hate moids, you would reasonably assume that they are referring to most, if not all men. You would probably also not want to be associated with anything they do, ever.
The term 'moid' predates this forum by decades IIRC.

Real life isn't twitter, and I don't care about what people who I've never met and have no concern for me are saying.
 
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