Why does the holocaust get special importance over other genocides

Two reasons.

1. The people who allegedly committed it lost the war.

2. The people it was allegedly committed against have institutional power.
 
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The Holocaust was the primary cudgel used against the Germans during "denazification." It was utilized as a psychological warfare mechanism to shift public consensus away from the ideology of The War's losers and closer to the ideology of the winners. The sacrosanct nature of the narrative that we see today is more or less a holdover from how effective it was in swaying an entire nation of defeated people to align with the values of the victorious party.

In other words: The Holocaust matters so much more than any other genocide specifically because its perpetrators lost and the victors wanted to make sure they didn't have another major war to look forward to.
 
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HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS said:
I wish Hitler didn't kill the jews. Should've just enslaved them or something like forced labour. Because of his dumbass actions, we have to suffer Jews screaming holocaust 80 years straight.
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He did.

Huh what? said:
A kid in my 7th grade class almost got expelled for asking this exact question. He wasn't trying to be malicious either. We all agreed with him, but he was the only one brave enough to say something about it.
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It does indicate the pervasive weakness in Jewish propaganda. It's omnipresent, unquestioning existence itself become worthy of suspicion and the propaganda slowly loses its power as it's used to justify increasingly authoritarian practices. Jews also have a looser relationship with the truth than other ancient societies,* so sensationalized myths and real events get mixed up into each other, like in the recent war where Hamas shoved babies into ovens or however it goes. A lot of people say it's fake news, but the context is during the Oct. 7 murder spree when Hamas went full Islam and killed families in their homes. So even if it's technically an urban legend, the real events surrounding it are objective reality.

*Japanese myth asserts that the Imperial Family is descended from Japan's gods, but their history does not go about asserting the reality of Japanese gods. Nor does Roman History bother asserting that Romulus and Remus were real people or the true founders of Rome. Jews and Christians are the ones that assert that the Bible is what literally happened in ancient times. Talking burning bushes and the Red Sea dividing itself were real guys!
 
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Because it was attached to World War 2. World War 2 has been a defining narrative for the western world, to the point it reflects in western media and political rhetoric. If Hitler merely killed the jews in Germany and left the rest of the world alone, people wouldn't remember the holocaust much more than any other genocide.

World War 2 has been seen as a mythical struggle of good and evil since it happened, you can see this in media, there's a reason that so many bad guys in fiction take design cues from the Nazis. A big part of that I think is trauma, a lot of people did suffer, however I think a large part of it is that it has elements people love in fiction, such as:

  • The underdog narrative
  • The decisive moment (D-Day)
  • The defined, undeniable evil (The Holocaust)
I think the most important element is that defined undeniable evil, a lot of liberals need that, they can't cope with gray areas. You can see this echoed in the Israel-Palestine conflict, because of the underdog narrative and inability to see Israel as completely pure, they imagine the Palestinians as morally pure victims of Holocaust 2.

An Underdog narrative is tremendously powerful, just look at liberals they're completely stuck to the narrative that they are the underdogs even when Bidens in the white house.
 
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A different approach of understanding; look at the horror of WW1. Everyone knew that was a fucking nightmare, but in the end the Triple Entente beat the Triple Alliance and effectively castrated them to prevent anymore wars (like they’d done time and time again prior; see Crimea, Napoleon, or the long line of “Peace ofs” that ended with Westphalia). Of course this backfired horribly, and now the Entente look really, really bad.

Now the Allied Forces (Great Britain, having just fucked up big time and suffered an embarassing retreat, the Soviet Union sending millions of men to grind themselves in the German thresher to gum it up, and the US freshly radicalized by an attack on home soil) go on to commit and experience hell on earth all around; The Air Raids of London, The Eastern Front, The Campaign in Norrh Africa, D-Day, The Island Hopping Campaign, Dresden, the Firebombing of Japan, and of course Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This was a brutal and awful all out war, with everyone getting real nice and dirty and desperate, that every man of their generation had to get sucked into. After 8 long years (3 for those who mattered), it’s all over, and the unspoken word on the lips of everyone was “this wasn’t worth it”. Patton got in deep shit for saying they fought the wrong enemy.

I think of Nietzsches infamous line; “God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? [..] Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?” If we committed horrible war crimes, made our men go through hell and back, how can we really ensure they know they won against evil? WW1 nearly destroyed their generation from existential despair; how do we prevent that?

It’s very interesting that the only war in recent memory that had their soldiers welcomed home as heroes required a fucking Holocaust to justify it. Not WW1, not Korea, not Vietnam, not Kuwait, Iraq, nor Afghanistan. Shit, even years before, the Civil War vets at best got a small parade and at worst a completely destroyed life. Military romanticism in the modern era relies heavy on the justification of WWII, and the Holocaust was real good.
 
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SaltyFanta said:
If Hitler merely killed the jews in Germany and left the rest of the world alone, people wouldn't remember the holocaust much more than any other genocide.
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There weren't even that many Jews in Germany itself, they were all in Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe. It's one thing to kill your own people, it's another to invade other countries to kill their people.
 
Because it victimized White people and that particular group of White people also had control of the media to where they could cry about it until the end of time.

I truly believe racism is one of the reasons people care so much about the Holocaust and Ukraine and so little about things like Armenia and the Uyghurs. Both of whom are basically White too, but they're not European so the average American idiot writes them off as weird ethnic people. Your average American just doesn't give a shit about anyone unless they're White or there is some concerted propaganda effort to make them obsess about it. This is true regardless of what they say.

Edit: Also, as some said, the mechanization. I don't think that's near as important as them being White (again, being White means that coddled suburbanites can picture it happening to themselves, or to their pleasant Jewish neighbors), but it adds to the sense that this is somehow some unique kind of evil.

It's based on a retarded assumption that civilization SHOULD go hand in hand with moral virtue, when the dark, depressing reality of it is that civilization and moral virtue have no relationship to each other at all and deranged, evil cultures can thrive and dominate (see the Aztecs until Cortez, the Japanese until MacArthur, and Muslims).

Devout Muslim said:
People often talk about the Holocaust in an anachronistic sense. “We” (the Anglosphere) didn’t fight against the Holocaust as is frequently suggested.

We only fought to protect France, England, America, and Russia from German imperialism. The Holocaust was mostly a post-war revelation (or fabrication, if you don’t trust the Soviets). It is said that we fought the Nazis, which is true but it is framed somewhat disingenuously. We fought the Nazis in the same sense that we fought the Japanese, the Prussians or even the French once upon a time. It was simply a military conflict. It was not a moral crusade like Vietnam, to free the world from the tyranny of fascism or save the Jews.
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I avoid Holocaust denialism, both because it feels like some eldritch lore that would drive me mad if it turned out to be true and when I have poked around in it it falls apart really fast. Citations to books that don't exist, citations to other material that cites it back, lot of fuckery with sources that are phony. A lot of it also depends on taking some ridiculous tall tale some random Jew told and making it out like that one thing discredits the eyewitness testimony of literally millions of people.

But I do recall a map that all the extermination camps were in Soviet-occupied territory and all of the concentration camps were in WAlly-occupied territory. Do you know the story behind that one? I figure you've seen it. I understand the Nuremberg Trials to have also been complete corrupt bullshit with a Soviet prosecution, to the point that the US should hang its head in shame for its involvement in it rather than beat its chest about it.

That's true of war crimes trials in general, though. They're gross little kangaroo courts, propaganda for the victors. I'd prefer the honesty of hanging people because they're the enemy and you won and you can.
 
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Because the "jews" (some of them hated being called a jew like Trotsky) created communism and then WW2 happened. This is the most OT story ever, if you ask me.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
But I do recall a map that all the extermination camps were in Soviet-occupied territory and all of the concentration camps were in WAlly-occupied territory. Do you know the story behind that one? I figure you've seen it. I understand the Nuremberg Trials to have also been complete corrupt bullshit with a Soviet prosecution, to the point that the US should hang its head in shame for its involvement in it rather than beat its chest about it.
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There’s a whole autism hole thread about denialism, but I had to double check the extermination camp thing. I remembered it too, but couldn’t find it again. But yes, there were 6 extermination camps, all mostly in Poland and each liberated (or in the case of Belzec, “rediscovered”) by the Soviets. Says nothing about its veracity, as you could make the case that it’s easier to kill the people in the country with camps in the country and it’s just bad luck the Russkies got their first. It’s important to note that of all the extermination camps, only Auschwitz is remembered, Buchenwald and Dachau are concentration camps.

I lean to exaggerationism; that it’s more likely that during the war they started executing prisoners because of poor supplies (remember; this is Nazi occupied Poland, not the motherland) and they amped it up and started dipping out as the Soviets marched in.
 
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Mnutu said:
There’s a whole autism hole thread about denialism, but I had to double check the extermination camp thing. I remembered it too, but couldn’t find it again. But yes, there were 6 extermination camps, all mostly in Poland and each liberated (or in the case of Belzec, “rediscovered”) by the Soviets. Says nothing about its veracity, as you could make the case that it’s easier to kill the people in the country with camps in the country and it’s just bad luck the Russkies got their first. It’s important to note that of all the extermination camps, only Auschwitz is remembered, Buchenwald and Dachau are concentration camps.

I lean to exaggerationism; that it’s more likely that during the war they started executing prisoners because of poor supplies (remember; this is Nazi occupied Poland, not the motherland) and they amped it up and started dipping out as the Soviets marched in.
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As I understand it's established fact, if maybe not well known, that Hitler didn't have any clear agenda on what to do with the Jews (besides remove them). He initially had desires to voluntarily resettle them, then forcedly resettle them, finally at Wannsee it turned into extermination.

There's also been a sort of revisionism-by-omission that "concentration camp" has been branded in the public mind as meaning death camp when the WAllies had, in WW2, WW1, Spanish Cuba, Boer South Africa and even in Vietnam (!) used concentration of civilians. Always with a high cost to people.

Was also, just due to the Hollywood Version of History not choosing to care about it, a great forgetting in America of all the nuance in Eastern Europe. That Ukraine had a nationalist uprising that fought BOTH Germany and the Soviet Union. That Germany had more or less willing allies besides Italy. That Poland was essentially a fascist government itself. That the Yugoslav Resistance was in reality everything the French Resistance was in Hollywood, times ten. That masses of people in Eastern Europe eagerly collaborated because anti-Semitism was the dominant viewpoint in every single country in the world. That the Wehrmacht and even SS was multiethnic. That Hitler meant to genocide Slavs, which would have dwarfed the Holocaust death toll if successful (was pretty effective at mass murdering people as was), with the Soviets being put in the position of a fight to the literal death for their civilization.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
I avoid Holocaust denialism, both because it feels like some eldritch lore that would drive me mad if it turned out to be true and when I have poked around in it it falls apart really fast. Citations to books that don't exist, citations to other material that cites it back, lot of fuckery with sources that are phony. A lot of it also depends on taking some ridiculous tall tale some random Jew told and making it out like that one thing discredits the eyewitness testimony of literally millions of people.
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To be clear, my post was not denying the holocaust. I’m simply pointing out that we didn’t fight the German’s because they were racist anti-Semites, we fought them because we didn’t trust them to not attack us later on. It was not about good versus evil, it was just us versus them.

Nowadays, modern commentators act as if we fought the Germans to liberate the Jews. In fact, most civilians had no clue about the Holocaust until well after the war. It only became a focal point of how WW2 is mythologised decades after the fact. If you don’t believe me, just ask anybody (non-Jewish) who lived through the war. Jews only entered the zeitgeist after the war was won.

This is irrespective of the historicity of the Holocaust.
 
Devout Muslim said:
To be clear, my post was not denying the holocaust. I’m simply pointing out that we didn’t fight the German’s because they were racist anti-Semites, we fought them because we didn’t trust them to not attack us later on. It was not about good versus evil, it was just us versus them.

Nowadays, modern commentators act as if we fought the Germans to liberate the Jews. In fact, most civilians had no clue about the Holocaust until well after the war. It only became a focal point of how WW2 is mythologised decades after the fact. If you don’t believe me, just ask anybody (non-Jewish) who lived through the war. Jews only entered the zeitgeist after the war was won.

This is irrespective of the historicity of the Holocaust.
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Didn’t mean to imply you did. Would have to reread my post, see if I spoke poorly.

Totally agree. You read/watch stuff from the period, it’s about stopping foreign aggression (meaning, really, the aggression of Bad People and not Good People). Similar to the Union having really waged war over the Union and abolition being a byproduct.
 
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