Why Is It So Hard to Imagine Something Better Than Capitalism?

I mostly agreed with you but what about the shit that happened with the 2008 housing market crash? There were a shitton of banks handing out risky loans left and right and when it was all said and done they just got bailed out anyway.
Well, I would say that that's not exactly capitalist. But if I make that case you could argue I ought to except the argument that [insert Communist failure] isn't real communism. It's inconsistent with free market capitalism, by intervening like that you are actively making your capitalism less capitalist. But it's also a standard feature of a capitalist system and wealthy elites will always try to subvert the government to corporatism, and that's something that capitalists have to figure out a way to deal with.

There's a quote to the effect that "capitalism without failure is like religion without Hell."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lords Greatsword
Ironically, true capitalism of the sort libertarians and ancaps speak of is one of these too. It can't exist because it inevitably welds itself to the government. This has been true since the days of the East India Company spendingn a fortune lobbying the British Parliament and of course outright taking over the Indian states in which it operated for the sake of doing business.
I didn't bring it up because my shit was already way to long but yeah, big-L Libertarianism is just as pie-in-the-sky nonsensical as communism. We know what happens when governments are extremely weak or nonexistent. 'The government big enough to do everything for you is big enough to do anything to you' has a corollary of 'The government too small to do anything to you is too small to do anything for you (So you better get on well with your local warlord, mob boss, or militia leader)'.

The problem is that you need to define "better." We don't need a better system than capitalism like the mythical automated luxury gay space communism, because it's a disgusting, perverted system that would make people even more degenerate. Capitalism is already good at turning people into degenerates, hence the porn industry, Big Pharma/psychiatry/plastic surgery industry pushing transgenderism, and sex toy entrepreneurs like the people who invented the balldo. The line going up forever, societal progress, all of that isn't a good thing, quite the opposite in fact when you realize where it will take us. Remember that communist countries are generally very conservative, because communism doesn't believe in pushing diversity in hopes of selling things to minorities.

So that's why we don't need a replacement for capitalism (because it would be even worse) and we need to hit the breaks on capitalism and abandon the idea that "muh free market" is some sort of virtue. Capitalism is not good. Capitalism isn't bad, but it isn't good either.

I'm sure the majority of the people living in Europe or the Americas in the 18th century didn't think that they needed a different economic system either, but capitalism ended up raising the floor of poverty in the next hundred years, as well as the ceiling of wealth.

'Better' is easy to define: higher standards of living and longer lifespan. The poor of today live longer - and better - than the poor of yesterday. As do the middle class, as do the wealthy. There is no time in history where any particular economic class was better off than they are right now.

Those improvements have been progressing for a very long time, and they're not strictly related to any economic system. The life of the average person got better over time before capitalism, it got better over time after capitalism became the dominant economic system of the world, and when capitalism stops delivering and starts to backslide and the average person's life starts getting worse - another economic system will emerge to make sure that Line Go Up on lifespans and living standards.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: Whatevermancer
I'm sure the majority of the people living in Europe or the Americas in the 18th century didn't think that they needed a different economic system either, but capitalism ended up raising the floor of poverty in the next hundred years, as well as the ceiling of wealth.
That's a bad example since enough people in the 18th century wanted another economic system so badly the French king lost his head for it. Classical liberalism in general was popular in Europe since getting rid of church property and reducing the ability of the crown and high nobles to do what they want was good for the merchant class. But it was indeed very bad for the peasants. Liberal reforms in some countries like Spain and Portugal reduced the literacy rate and wealth among peasants in many areas for almost a century. France really only avoided the same from liberalism because Napoleon's wars killed an entire generation.
'Better' is easy to define: higher standards of living and longer lifespan. The poor of today live longer - and better - than the poor of yesterday. As do the middle class, as do the wealthy. There is no time in history where any particular economic class was better off than they are right now.
That's not really true. I recall an article on some poor, depressed Appalachian county (Boone County, Kentucky, at the time had the highest proportion of people on welfare in the country) where a guy the journo interviewed claimed it was easier to be poor decades ago. Minimum wage peaked in the early 70s, which most people didn't make because they had a union. Average wages have been fairly stagnant since 1973, despite an enormous increase in productivity of the average American worker. Despite all the tech and benefits capitalism brings us, somehow cars and especially houses are more expensive than ever. The truly poor are still living in shitty projects/Section 8 junk built 50 years ago, sometimes the same places their parents and grandparents lived. And this isn't just America, this is the entire West.
Those improvements have been progressing for a very long time, and they're not strictly related to any economic system. The life of the average person got better over time before capitalism, it got better over time after capitalism became the dominant economic system of the world, and when capitalism stops delivering and starts to backslide and the average person's life starts getting worse - another economic system will emerge to make sure that Line Go Up on lifespans and living standards.
Capitalism wasn't the only solution for that. For instance, the Indian state of Kerala, routinely governed by socialists and communists, is toward the bottom in India in terms of illiteracy, malnutrition, etc. and has consistently high education and a disproportionate amount of doctors. Cuba is famously like that too, even if Western commies routinely overstate how good Cuba is, the stats are more or less accurate and even the shitty doctors poor rural Cubans get are better than what they got back in the 50s and earlier. Both are definitely poor places, and are unlikely to progress much further due to the limitations of socialism compared to capitalism, but in certain fields communism can produce beneficial results.

And line going up is not necessarily good, especially when it deals with technological progress. Transhumanism will obsolete humanity and turn us over to the global cyborg elite. You can laugh at that, but that's what Yuval Noah Harari, Ray Kurzweil, etc. believe and advocate and these guys have the ear of the most powerful people in the world.
 
The government big enough to do everything for you is big enough to do anything to you' has a corollary of 'The government too small to do anything to you is too small to do anything for you (So you better get on well with your local warlord, mob boss, or militia leader)'.
Afghanistan as an example. Outside of the main cities, it's pretty much all tribes run by local warlords who have no connection to any sort of Afghan identity.

(The quotes I mean, not libertarianism)
 
Inb4 Africa is a shit hole. Yeah well at least the oppressors have faces and names. There's no warlord inc. or J.P marauder Stanley.
I am sure the child slaves in Congo or Liberia were overjoyed they knew the names and faces of their overseers, especially when a gang rape was involved.

Come on.
 
Ah yes, the "Capitalism is when the government/private companies does things I like, communism/not real capitalism is when they do things I don't like"
pulling an ackshually and saying it was the government doesn't make any sense because
america's government has always been capitalist. china's government had transitioned slowly from communism to capitalism while retaining the majority of their authority. large companies arise to form incestuous relationships with the government regardless of the economic system. I said nothing about anything being true/fake capitalism/communism, that was a complete non sequitur. you are a retard nigger dunning kruger. don't bother replying.
 
didn't bring it up because my shit was already way to long but yeah, big-L Libertarianism is just as pie-in-the-sky nonsensical as communism. We know what happens when governments are extremely weak or nonexistent. 'The government big enough to do everything for you is big enough to do anything to you' has a corollary of 'The government too small to do anything to you is too small to do anything for you (So you better get on well with your local warlord, mob boss, or militia leader)'.
Classical liberal early America and Britain being known for their extreme political instability and warlords, after all.
 
Each sphere of influence believes Capitalism or Communism were the only way. The west believes that communist countries are poor because of communism. The other side believes western sanctions prohibit their countries to flourish and sees capitalism as the dumbing down of society. That's my theory.
 
I am sure the child slaves in Congo or Liberia were overjoyed they knew the names and faces of their overseers, especially when a gang rape was involved.

Come on.
I'm sure that the well equipped players who make up the majority of Minecraft's userbase are okay with being unable to seek justice against the other players who grief them because they have no idea who they are.

Come on.

Edit:There are many types of environments which use a free market system for trade and services. I'm not saying Africa is better than the any Modern Civilized country. It's not. I'm just saying that there are actors who act inside of economic systems to the needless detriment of others. In this regard, accountability is crucial in nations where justice can be implemented against individuals who act in such a manner. Via the government's monopoly on violence and the laws derived from it. This of course implies such a government exists though. Corporatism is the main thing I think most people hate today about modern markets. As a corporation's primary use today is to insolate their original owners or employees from the consequences of their actions. So long as they get out before the consequences against the corp come knocking.
 
Last edited:
I'm sure that the well equipped players who make up the majority of Minecraft's userbase are okay with being unable to seek justice against the other players who grief them because they have no idea who they are.

Come on.
That's a retarded analogy and you know it.
 
Classical liberal early America and Britain being known for their extreme political instability and warlords, after all.
Britain wasn't a small government country lol. They had all sorts of taxes to fund their empire or even private corporations like the East India Company and their lobbyists in Parliament and were famous for being the execution capital of Europe, of which one way to avoid execution was to get deported to Australia (or America before the 1770s) to help make corporations money. America wasn't either. State and local governments had very well-enforced laws, and there was lots of extrajudicial punishment. Someone powerful could easily make shit up about you and chase you out of town.
 
It's called a community it used to exist before the atomization of society people taking care of one another for no other reason that you are the same ways you are the same religion based on Christian moral practices we call this philosophy communalism and it is the most based philosophy because it is not something that requires any engineering it is just a natural evolution of the human spirit that God gave us
 
It's not hard to imagine something better than a capitalist economy, it is hard to actually create it though. This is why most communist nations collapsed eventually.
 
Because it’s wired into us. Even animals exchange things for other things. That creates a sense of a fair deal - and even animals have that. Chimps know when you’re cheating them. Other animals do too. So that barter thing is wired in at a deep level.
The problem is that it was fine when it was small scale trading, because we are built to operate on a small society scale. Nowadays the manifestation of capitalism Is this grim globalist stuff, predatory corporate stuff and that’s created a beast that doesn’t operate at a human scale at all.

The best system is probably like the scandi countries had in the 70-80s. Capitalism with good production, in a small homogenous highly intelligent society, with a decent safety net. You can only do that in a partially closed and homogenous society though. We need to go back a bit. Not quite to monke, just to ‘I have stuff, you buy stuff.’
 
Back