Would a demon actually cheat a human in a deal? - A schizo post

[AnsemSoD1]

Honestly I just don't want to ever witness anything with multiple limbs, eyes, claws, or any other kind of abomination ever pop up in or around my home.

 

[Overly Serious]

You lose at the moment you are willing to make the deal. When you agree to do something wrong for some gain it doesn't matter if the demon reneges on their half or not. You have already tarnished your soul.

 

[Otterly]

The point of the trope that they don’t enjoy it is to show that the deal is hollow from the start. Hollywood tends not to be subtle.

The Screwtape Letters is one of the most brilliant pieces of black comedy ever written.

A book worth reading IMo

He is peddling in basic apologetics with little depth and more often then not no basis in scripture.

Well I’m a simple gal, and I thought it was a very insightful book.

The devil or demos are fake, they aren't their own separate beings outside of the human mind and there are no "incorporeal entities" out there (in the context of this life or rather in this current state of consciousness, but this would be a massive tangent I will not go into)

I would disagree, but the first part of this sentence does seem to contradict the second. I think that looking around us right now at the state of the world shows you that evil is a thing.

Yes there are rare cases of "possessed" or rather mentally ill people that got "healed" by becoming a monk or something, but it's always just the pure exercising of will in regards of ignoring intrusive thoughts or hallucinations that those people still see/hear on a daily basis

Have you ever heard of a chap called Jerry Marzinsky?

 

[Meat Target]

The "screwtape letters" by C.S. Lewis are a fun read but you really shouldn't take his writing seriously. He is peddling in basic apologetics with little depth and more often then not no basis in scripture.

I know, it's not gospel. That's not what I said. I said its relatability makes it darkly funny.

 

[I'm Retarded?]

a roughly Biblical answer would be that demons in general, and Lucifer especially, are nothing more than exiled angels filled with hatred and resentment at their fate, towards God for inflicting it and towards humanity for being the object of God's favor. they don't have any actual authority over human souls, but Lucifer at least has some kind of presence in the form of "temptation" towards evil. he cannot force humans to act the way he wants but he can offer the option, and nothing gives him greater pleasure than helping a human damn themselves, both as an insult to God and to deny him another eternal worshipper. but the calculating aspect of it doesn't seem to be nearly as important as just the pure Schadenfreude of the act, as Lucifer and the fallen angels all exist in a state of constant torment due to their separation from God, and are desperate for any kind of relief from it (which is implied to be the impetus behind demonic possession - occupying a vessel on earth is a break from their otherwise nonstop suffering). so demons tend to be kind of capricious in this regard. Lucifer himself is often depicted as the slow, calculating evil (such as in the book of Job, or the temptation of Jesus), while his followers are more the instant gratification type. of course this picks up a gorillion caveats depending on which books you're reading and how deep you're dipping into the apocrypha.

A short answer:

this dude has fucking experienced shit in life. thank you for your post, based kiwifriend.

 

[Newfag14]

On the topic of Theosis, how can you become a God or a Demon through Theosis if neither of them exist? I'm not going to sperg out about Theosis itself because it's an extremely difficult concept to properly explain and I can't even hope of accomplish that, but the core tenets rely on Demons and God both being real, as Theosis loosely means to become 'as God', which implies that God is real, which follows that Demons must also be real. Consistency in stance is important when you're talking about subjects like this.

I used theosis, demon, god, etc... linked to words like "like" "similar to", "or something"
I argued that concepts like god and demons are just that, Concepts, Figments of your imagination or rather the "collective imagination, as in the common thoughts and ideas also floating around in peoples head because they share a similar culture + genetics.
They are of course very powerful concepts that float around your mind that will manifest in your dreams and altered states of consciousness, having a great influence on ones behavior, depending on how you deal with such stuff, as i already wrote in my first post.
Also theosis does not require or imply "god" being real, it just requires the concept of "god" to be a thing and then you just try to strive to become more like it through different practices.

Idk if you maybe misread stuff i wrote or if I just suck at expressing myself in a foreign language.
I think the main problem is that you got hung up on some things and terms I mentioned that don't mean anything to me anymore so I don't care to use them carefully. In contrast I went the opposite route and gave up on adressing every single point you made because I don't care to discuss the details of different aspects of some christian denomination.
I stand by my post, although i should have worded things better

Btw:
There is the boots on the ground reality that the "i want to be closer to god" bit is just a larp and the impulse and true motivation to go down such a path is always just to cope with something very personal like disease, death of close ones, or even mental illness etc...
Monks are just human beings. They may be capable of some impressive feats, but they still can't fully escape human faults and desires.

 

[Newfag14]

I know, it's not gospel. That's not what I said. I said its relatability makes it darkly funny.

Well it was just a side note that wasn't adressed to anyone, i just knew that someone would bring up the screwtape letters because it's pretty much the most popular book adressing the nature of demons.

Also very nice choice of name + profile picture, paul harrell is great.

 

[Newfag14]

The point of the trope that they don’t enjoy it is to show that the deal is hollow from the start. Hollywood tends not to be subtle.

A book worth reading IMo

Well I’m a simple gal, and I thought it was a very insightful book.

I would disagree, but the first part of this sentence does seem to contradict the second. I think that looking around us right now at the state of the world shows you that evil is a thing.

Have you ever heard of a chap called Jerry Marzinsky?

Well I think that the world is (functionally) a 100% material place but that there might be some strange stuff going on with the consciousness of a person because there might be, for example, legit cases of deja-vu going on and that there might be at least something like a solipsistic afterlife due to the fact that one can spend a lifetime within a strong drug trip. Death seems to trigger all kinds of chemical reactions in the brain and it might very well cause a seemingly never ending dream.
The evil stuff going on all around us is just part human nature tbh, though some groups of people need way less of a push to do evil stuff then others...
Modern technology also amplifies all that evil ...

I am very careful with all "spiritual" explanations of things because I see how easy it is to cope away all kinds of things with it and how there never seems to be definite proof of a "spiritual" realm or something.

Yep, I know that Jerry Marzinsky guy and binged some of his content many years ago.
I am still very skeptical when it comes to cases where stuff akin to remote viewing is going on. I think he also mentioned shamans doing rituals with drinking and surviving inhuman amounts of alcohol, entering a "possessed" state, and returning as sober. Also pretty fishy stuff that might be just made up.
He is 100% correct when it comes to drugs changing a person into a horrible being that commits brutal crimes due to low impulse control.
When I did coke once I felt my inhibitions dropping and my willingness to take massive risk sharply rising, among other things...
Speed had a kinda similar effect tho less intense.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

Lucifer is a being of pure intellect;

The reduction of the spiritual/ immaterial realm to just intellect is an enlightenment basterdization and flattening of the meaning of the non-material.

has all eternity to torture your soul afterwards, you'd think it would be better to let the guy enjoy his wish so others might be tempted to do the same.

These stories are parables about making sacrifices where you debase yourself, like sucking harvey weinstein cock for a role. And the betrayal where they squeeze you for every legalistic opportunity is about how bad bedfellows act. Your question is easily answered: Why would they be kind and fenerous and let you enjoy more than strictly necessary?

 

[skykiii]

Don't talk to demons, it's not worf it.

I have to agree, all the Data suggests as much. As human beings, we can LaForge our own path. I was a Riker in the woods for several years and I know, humans are stronger than they know. If we want, we can make it so.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

I have to agree, all the Data suggests as much. As human beings, we can LaForge our own path. I was a Riker in the woods for several years and I know, humans are stronger than they know. If we want, we can make it so.

All the puns. Make it go.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

These stories are parables about making sacrifices where you debase yourself, like sucking harvey weinstein cock for a role. And the betrayal where they squeeze you for every legalistic opportunity is about how bad bedfellows act. Your question is easily answered: Why would they be kind and fenerous and let you enjoy more than strictly necessary?

Like I said, it would incline more people to have deals for the short term gain. A lot of the stories have the demons cheat the human as a moral that they can't even get the short term enjoyment, due to obviously people being retarded.

 

[Not a bee]

No. Make sure you know what you're getting into.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

Like I said, it would incline more people to have deals for the short term gain. A lot of the stories have the demons cheat the human as a moral that they can't even get the short term enjoyment, due to obviously people being retarded.

But they don't need to. People's ambition, pride, lust, the temptation stretches into the infinite. Look at lolcows, there is no shortage of bad temptation. It only needs a good promise, not a good return on investment.

Alternatively look at the black freighter story in watchmen, or the cop in true detective season 2. Some people are just waiting for an opportunity to destroy themselves for perceived gains. Shortcuts that aren't worth taking. The way to push people towards them don't need honest rewards, they just need to push them into ever more desperate straits until they willingly break themselves.

 

[Male Idiot]

The media portrays it because it is more dramatic to get a bad deal and fight Mr Horny than to just do coke all your life on Eipstein island until you die of an OD.

That said, I am sure demons are fictional, but were based on jews and the greek mythical creature the satyr. Thus the deals they give out in stories is the deal of the Happy Merchant, screwing you over.

 

[St.Davis]

The Screwtape Letters is one of the most brilliant pieces of black comedy ever written. Like when he's telling Wormwood to make the human think everyone around him is being annoying on purpose. I struggle with that one these days.

I should see about reading those, as soon as I find a PDF.

 

[Meat Target]

I should see about reading those, as soon as I find a PDF.

I'm your Huckleberry.

 

[Str8Bustah]

Also theosis does not require or imply "god" being real, it just requires the concept of "god" to be a thing and then you just try to strive to become more like it through different practices.

That misses the point of Theosis completely. It's not about 'striving' to become as god, it's about 'becoming' as God, it's about repentance and killing your ego so that you can receive the reward that Christ wants to give to you, which is eternal life and a seat in the kingdom of heaven as someone who shares in the divinity of the Holy Trinity. What you're doing is reducing it to some kind of moral principle that gives you a guide to be a better person in life, which is heretical and incorrect.

Monks don't give up their life just for the sake of personal improvement, no matter how flawed they are as people or how many mistakes that they make, and no amount of imperfection that they have or sin that they commit will change that fact; they aren't trying to become god-like on earth, they're trying to live out Christ's commandments to the letter as a demonstration of love as they feel it's the only way they could possibly be seen as worthy of being given a seat in heaven.

I am very careful with all "spiritual" explanations of things because I see how easy it is to cope away all kinds of things with it and how there never seems to be definite proof of a "spiritual" realm or something.

You either hear the voice of Christ and the Holy Spirit, or you don't. That doesn't mean that something exists or not, it's just a reflection of where you are in your faith. That and you should never be looking for proof of something that's outside of the scope of material reality from inside that material reality because it's a complete waste of time and a trick by the demons to get you to run in circles. Even from a base, skeptical, logical standpoint that makes zero sense; how can a drawing with no capacity to understand the artist that drew it prove the existence of the artist?

In the end it all comes down to a question of belief, and anything else is just an excuse that we make for ourselves in our weakness; you either have faith in the Lord and his plan, or you lack faith in the Lord and his plan. It's honestly that simple, and Jesus mentions it constantly in the gospels, granted you can also change how much or how little faith you have by your actions in the here and now.

 

[Daddy's Angry Juice]

No, but they would have enough loopholes that it wouldnt matter

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Of course Israeli hands would type up a thread like this.

There's actually no concept of demons in Judaism, at least not in the Christian sense. Witchcraft and divination are still serious sins in both religions though.

No, but they would have enough loopholes that it wouldnt matter

Likely not. They need your free consent, and deception prevents you from exercising the total freedom of will to accept their offer. More likely they'll wear you down to give in instead through ongoing infestation/oppression phenomena, or provide you with preternatural abilities and knowledge as an "incentive".