Trashfire WPATH Medical Documents Leak

Does "clean your room" sound like "talk to troon"? I'm trying to say that violence against LGBT is what the media (or whoever?) wants. The pendulum swinging back is the rallying cry for all the useful idiots on our side to act in exactly the way the media wants them to. It is a desired reaction. Dispelling LGBT doesn't require violence, and our time is better spent working locally instead of waiting for the first brick to be thrown like cowards.


They share the same worldview with most Americans, of personal liberty and pursuit of happiness, taken to an end that is extreme but coherent. We've been lied to and have all been worshipping the wrong gods.
Meme of a tranny 41%ing and acronym TTD is murderposting now?(lol, lmao even)
Where did I advocate for killing all alphabet faggots? I don't really care if you love to suck dick/munch carpets in the private of your home, as long as you do it in the parameters of legality. These doctors and activist troons on WPATH are pure evil and deserve the worst faiths imaginable though.

As an Father I could give less about what media thinks of my comments about an organisation that's actively harming children year after year.
Ps. To your Pillhead-Peterson punchline about cleaning rooms: I don't need to, that's my wifes job.
 
Not defending troonery, but the murder-talk isn't helpful. You're being goaded into a controlled dialectic by whoever wants their to be tension between LGBT and some other group (probably Christians).
Now obviously I’m not encouraging violence but as a thought experiment, it’s interesting to think that these people have had their perversions kept firmly in the closet for millennia. They weren’t there for fear of a stern talking to.
I think it's just the information control problem, where you aren't allowed to talk about these things anywhere but Kiwi Farms, a couple of corners of reddit, and the comments of certain youtube videos. Pretty crazy when you think about it? The ability to discuss a massive cultural issue has been driven virtually totally underground. Millions and millions of people in the West have strong opinions against this stuff (polling tells us that this stuff is not as popular as the system wants you to assume) but you can't talk about it unless you're a weirdo who hangs out in weird spaces.
For sure. When I first started talking to family about this they thought I was nuts. Now they don’t. They talk to people in real life about it now. Ditto when the Troon menace tried to shut down mumsnet . Women just started talking offline, and that meant getting face to face time with people who have degrees of influence. Outside of the hug boxes, nobody likes this stuff. Everyone thinks it’s awful, they just don’t realise the sheer depth of the depravity.
The best inoculation against troons is exposure to them. The more visible they are, the more people are revolted.
This ain’t going to bust it all wide open and stop it, but it’s one drip in a series that will eventually revolt people so much, there will be action.
Either that or the impending caliphate will throw them all off cliffs.
 
"Waiting seems to increase the risks of suicide attempts."

I'm sorry, call me heartless, but threatening suicide is a manipulation tactic. I'm so sick to death of troons threatening to kill themselves all the time. Maybe it's apathy or empathy exhaustion, but if someone kills themselves because someone didn't let them cut their tits or dick off, they weren't going to function as a living being anyway. Something sooner or later would have made them 41% and most of the time it's after they transition or get surgery. I honestly hope the kids ruined by the troon movement get help, but I understand that it's too late for many of them. At that point, we can only blame the people that pushed them into it.
quotes.net/mquote/1191666
 
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Does "clean your room" sound like "talk to troon"? I'm trying to say that violence against LGBT is what the media (or whoever?) wants. The pendulum swinging back is the rallying cry for all the useful idiots on our side to act in exactly the way the media wants them to. It is a desired reaction. Dispelling LGBT doesn't require violence, and our time is better spent working locally instead of waiting for the first brick to be thrown like cowards.


They share the same worldview with most Americans, of personal liberty and pursuit of happiness, taken to an end that is extreme but coherent. We've been lied to and have all been worshipping the wrong gods.
"Nooooo don't you understand, people wanting to see justice done to child rapists is what (((they))) want - just let the people who ran child rape organizations get on with their lives and we can all be friends, they didn't mean any harm."

Nice try, Shlomo. We owe it to our children to return to a time where even mentioning any of this degenerate shit around the average person leads to a one way ticket to the asylum - actually doing it to someone, especially children, should carry an automatic death sentence.
 
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Probably the only way this is will stop is the various NHSs/health insurances losing money over this, or hospitals and clinics sued for damages. Give me the rainbows, but if I were to manage a health insurance company, I would be pissed about losing money covering sham therapies and surgeries that will need to be revised, costing other money. Patients with chronic ailments are good just for Big Pharma.

No, it won't be the moral outrage, the kids with their life ruined, the damaging emotional and psychological weight gender ideology had on culture, academy and society that will end this. It will be a matter of money.
 
Several message threads suggest that WPATH members are allowing mentally unstable people to consent to hormones and surgeries. In an undated post, a nurse practitioner from Halifax, NS, described a patient with very complex mental health issues, including PTSD, major depressive disorder (MDD), observed dissociations, and schizoid typical traits. The nurse told the group that the patient is eager to start hormones, but psychiatry is recommending holding off. “My practice is based fully on the informed consent model however this case has me perplexed; struggling internally as to what is the right thing to do,” said the nurse.

Dr. Dan Karasic of the University of California San Francisco (UCSF), the lead author of the mental health chapter of WPATH’s SOC8, was baffled by the nurse’s perplexity. “I’m missing why you are perplexed,” said Karasic. “The mere presence of psychiatric illness should not block a person’s ability to start hormones if they have persistent gender dysphoria, capacity to consent, and the benefits of starting hormones outweigh the risks.”

This one is interesting because it absolutely should, in some cases. I'm unsure of the exact laws within the USA, but most modern countries have legal systems where certain mental disorders effectively revoke some of a person's legal responsibilities, as well as ability to consent. They basically get marked as having limited legal responsibility, and as a result, someone else has their power of attorney and makes decisions on their behalf. This is going to be commonplace in any legal system, really, because we need a way to approach scenarios such as a child who cannot legally consent making a purchase at a store, and the approach for mentally unstable individuals is similar.

I can't help but read this and wonder if Canada has personnel trained to be aware of such systems and USA does not, though it's hard to imagine any country not second-guessing the requests of a mentally unstable person. The fact that the psychiatrist is the one telling them to hold off should be alarming. The psychiatrist is the very individual that would be able to declare that person as mentally unstable, so if they're saying to hold off, there's good odds the psychiatrist themselves is debating such a diagnosis and everyone else should wait.

This is like if a nurse said one of their patients wanted to enter a building with an alleged bomb in it to retrieve their favorite purse, the bomb defusal team said to wait as they comb the area for bombs, and this pompous doctor said "a bomb defusal team doesn't have the legal right to hinder you from entering an area until a bomb is found." Yeah jackass, and they're currently looking for one. Let them do their job first.
 
Probably the only way this is will stop is the various NHSs/health insurances losing money over this, or hospitals and clinics sued for damages.

It really is, sadly. I'm assuming it'd fall under malpractice, their insurance covers it, their rates get jacked up to a certain point until they're either not covered or btfo'd.

Always comes down to money in order for something to change.
 
Aram Fingal was minutes away from this fate in Overdrawn at the Memory Bank.
So was the dude in Ice Pirates.

icepirates.gif
 
Tony Reed made a "fact check". I have not yet read it.
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Gave it a shot, and either I'm stupid or the critic is just so lost in their own bubble that they're difficult to understand at times.

Couple points, listed as spoiler to hide the text length:

-Opens with a claim that they found 216 inaccuracies, that "affect every section." It seems like if that's the case, just neatly list the 216 inaccuracies off. They don't though, and instead the document seems far too short for 216 inaccuracies. The number seems like little more than something meant to make people go "hurrdurr o wow 216, dats uh lot."

Hilariously, they cite that the Files use the Gish Gallop tactic, where they try to overwhelm people with a sheer amount of errors so that they have difficulty responding to everything, while this critique itself is immediately trying to use volume of errors to dismiss the file.

-Critiques that the Files mention a petition against the current methodology of trans treatments as though the petition was composed of 2000 signatures from medical staff. In reality, the petition was open to the public, and most of the signatures seem to be by family members of kids and teens that were treated. However, the critique does nothing to touch on how if the petition were open to the public, then yes, the majority of the public are not employed as medical staff, so it's inevitable that most will not be from medical staff. Did medical staff sign though...? This is left unanswered. It also approaches the signatures of family members with a dismissive attitude.

Opening the petition myself, I'm immediately met with people marked as psychiatrists, psychologists and pediatricians, right at the top. In that sense, while it's true the petition isn't purely composed of medical staff, it's clear it also includes medical staff and informed individuals who would directly deal with the subject matter on the regular. Psychologists in particular seem supportive of this petition.

The very signatures that the critic screencapped showcase the only two DJs on the entire petition, with the sceenshot conveniently cutting off just before two trainee Psychotherapists sign it. The critic is very clearly selecting which data to show us for their own benefit, trying to present it as though misinformed DJs and other low-education level professions make up the majority of the petition.

-A lot of the critique boils down to references to studies done before 2012, which the critic addresses as being old or since debunked. To quote:

These citations include a 2004 article from The Guardian, an article from a conservative site called "The New Atlantis," which self-describes not as an academic journal but as a "public journal of ideas," the frequently misquoted "Swedish Study" whose author has expressly corrected misinterpretations by anti-trans organizations, and a quality of life study that is 15 years old, evaluating surgeries performed 30 years ago, when social discrimination likely significantly influenced the outcomes.

The "frequently misquoted Swedish Study" hilariously links to the critic's own response as a citation. I've honestly never seen this before lol. Is it even considered a sound academic practice to cite yourself...?

At any rate, those links do not contest the abnormally high suicide rate amongst trans individuals, instead only contesting that transgender treatments do not increase suicide rates. This however begs the question: what happens to the argument that "we need to do this treatment ASAP for the patient's own well-being" if the treatment itself is statistically a wash that neither improves nor diminishes quality of life? We are rushing into these treatments off a false premise that clearly isn't true, and not even this critic provides anything to debunk that.

The quality of life study is dismissed as being old, effectively saying "well it was society's fault they're unhappy." I mean, if I were to mutilate my face and then cry "it's society's fault I'm unhappy and no one will date me," is it really so unorthodox to acknowledge society responses as part of one's own happiness...?

The critic also completely glosses over that the quality-of-life study broke things down into categories. Is it also society's fault that transgender individuals from that study were documented as having more health problems and more physical limitations than the control group...? The societal discrimination is simply an uncited theory of the critic that doesn't hold up against the actual study's findings, which measured metrics irrelevant to societal influence.

-This is the part I may not be understanding, but the critic lectures the Files for conflating gender and sex. This is where I tap out and say "who fucking cares," though maybe I'm stupid to. However, this same section does try to make a point by showing how outdated the Files' approach is by citing a change in the DSM-V...which I think for most people, backfires spectacularly.

Open the critique and scroll down, you will see a side-by-side of the DSM-V both before and after 2013. The difference...? The pre-2013 version showcases that a REQUIREMENT of gender identity disorder was that the child feels uncomfortable with their own gender role of their biological gender. Post-2013 however, this is no longer a requirement. The child only needs to desire to be the other gender while engaging in at least 5 out of 7 other criteria where they make-believe they're the other gender. This is exactly the kind of thing where I feel the critic is out-of-touch. We do not give a shit if the DSM-V's new requirements are the authority, the entire point is people are questioning that criteria.

All the critic is doing is calling for a blind adherence to the authority of the DSM-V, when no, people rightfully want to question why suddenly a little boy who states he wishes he was a girl and wears a dress, plays with dolls, has majority female friends, plays house and doesn't want to play monster trucks (5 criteria met) is suddenly being told he's trans instead of it just being a phase he may be experiencing because all of his friends are girls and he wants to fit in.

-The conclusion part includes an awkward ad hominem where it claims a certain person helped make this document and they once teased a little girl for being trans. I have no idea if this is even true because their own citation makes no mention of any teasing, nor of the person they named.

TL;DR - Seems bogus to me. The entire critique of the files is that the current authority on the matter isn't to be trusted. The critic very obviously engages in cherry-picking of information themselves, then cites the very authority that arose post 2012 (wonder wtf happened this year cause it was a wild one; maybe the Mayans predicted people losing their fucking minds?) that the Files themselves are criticizing. Any research from before 2012 is simply dismissed as "too old" by the critic, and some points raised by the Files are only partially contested. (AKA, it's untrue that suicide rates rose after gender affirming care. Instead, trans individuals have abnormally high suicide rates regardless of having been treated or not)
 
This one is interesting because it absolutely should, in some cases. I'm unsure of the exact laws within the USA, but most modern countries have legal systems where certain mental disorders effectively revoke some of a person's legal responsibilities, as well as ability to consent. They basically get marked as having limited legal responsibility, and as a result, someone else has their power of attorney and makes decisions on their behalf.
Sorry to be the bearer of rainbows, but what you have described is commonly know as a "Child", and they are defo A-OK with turning children's genitals into punched lasagne.
 
The critic very obviously engages in cherry-picking of information themselves, then cites the very authority that arose post 2012 (wonder wtf happened this year cause it was a wild one; maybe the Mayans predicted people losing their fucking minds?) that the Files themselves are criticizing. Any research from before 2012 is simply dismissed as "too old" by the critic, and some points raised by the Files are only partially contested. (AKA, it's untrue that suicide rates rose after gender affirming care. Instead, trans individuals have abnormally high suicide rates regardless of having been treated or not)
I envy you going through that article, I felt like I was having a brain bleed trying to get through it.
 
This one is interesting because it absolutely should, in some cases. I'm unsure of the exact laws within the USA, but most modern countries have legal systems where certain mental disorders effectively revoke some of a person's legal responsibilities, as well as ability to consent. They basically get marked as having limited legal responsibility, and as a result, someone else has their power of attorney and makes decisions on their behalf.
It is a legal nightmare to have someone declared insane in America.
Over time, several court cases have further defined the legal requirements for admission to or retention in a hospital setting. In Lake v. Cameron, a 1966 D.C. Court of Appeals case, the concept of “least restrictive setting” was introduced, requiring hospitals to discharge patients to an environment less restrictive than a hospital if at all possible [11]. In the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that a person had to be a danger to him- or herself or to others for confinement to be constitutional [12]. The 1999 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Olmstead v. L.C. stated that mental illness was a disability and covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. All governmental agencies, not just the state hospitals, were be required thereafter to make “reasonable accommodations” to move people with mental illness into community-based treatment to end unnecessary institutionalization [13].
Deinstitutionalization of People with Mental Illness: Causes and Consequences
 
If you don't mind me asking, how did you get through the whole article without having a brain hemorrhage? The rhetoric people employ can be so frustrating and biased that I often find myself giving up on critically thinking through it all.
Used to read through contracts and legal documents professionally. Got the fuck out of there because yeah, as you said, you'd probably get a brain hemorrhage doing that shit long-term, but I can still read through a long-form document like this when needed.

In general I also think we're seeing an increasing trend where media relies on people being lazy about reading, so a lot of misinformation happens in headlines and headers while the actual content is more truthful or lacking in evidence for the initial claims.

For anyone short on time, try this link from the critic's document:
Stella O'Malley from Genspect, an organization which has previously teased a young trans girl testifying in front of a school board, played a role in its development.
Be careful about reading this one and read it word for word, because it's actually upfront about how indirect this "tease" is while also being written in a way others might easily misinterpret it and think it's worse than it is. Had to read this again to even realize what they were talking about.

The "teasing a young trans girl" appears to be little more than the fact that Genspect wrote "Alison" and "daughter" in quotations within the tweet linked. So no, neither Stella O'Malley nor Genspect directly teased nor interacted with this 11-year-old, nor did they engage with her while she was testifying in front of a school board. The two have never directly interacted with that kid period. Her crime the critic is crying about is that an organization she runs made a tweet that was critical of the idea that this kid is a girl or should be treated as trans. This is not even Stella O'Malley's personal twitter account, as the citation directly preceding this one shows, so this is all a stretch and an attempt at guilt-by-association for something as minor as quotation marks.

I actually only caught this because I didn't even realize the quotes were supposed to be teasing, so I dug deeper trying to find a story with both Stella/Genspect and the kid in the same room or interacting with each other. Only after I dug deeper did I realize those stupid quotes are probably the tease, as this makes sense of why the fuck the critic used that tweet as a source.

Technically speaking, the sentence I quoted above is more or less truthful. However, I think most read that and 1) conflate if Stella O'Malley engaged in this behavior personally or the organization did, ask 2) if the teasing happened directly during the testimony the kid made before the school board, as well as 3) fill in the blanks themselves on what the "teasing" entailed, and it's good odds they'll imagine something far more severe than some stupid quotation marks.

Always gotta be careful with this kinda shit, unfortunately.
 
The "fact check" doc was pushed out as quickly as possible so TRAs can start circulating their "the WPATH files are deboonked transphobic hate propaganda!!!". Most will never read through any of it, and wokies will take their word on it. Like how they believe JKR is the trans genocide leader without reading a word of what she wrote.
 
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