YABookgate

[Tragon Dirtle]

This was really good. If you publish it as an article some where let me know, I'd love to share it with others.

(Or maybe see if @Fandom Pulse would put it out)

I won't be doing that (because there are still Cecils and Coghills and they could sue me) but if that guy is not based in the UK and wants to look into it he's welcome to.

 

[Mellorine]

Also the yaoification of Moby Dick is from Ishmael and Queequeg sharing a bed

Lots of 19th century books have bed sharing. They don't have the narrator going along with a pagan pseudo-marriage to another man just 'cause they're such great bros :

 

[JJLiautaud]

Considering who the audience is(big name SFF writers, editors and publishers) I'd argue that this had a fairly significant impact, also note how well written this piece is.

 

[Accept Only Substitutes]

Nanowrimo just put out a statement about AI.

Not allowing AI is ableist and classist. Because racism, I guess.

Spoiler: Full statement

NaNoWriMo does not explicitly support any specific approach to writing, nor does it explicitly condemn any approach, including the use of AI. NaNoWriMo's mission is to "provide the structure, community, and encouragement to help people use their voices, achieve creative goals, and build new worlds—on and off the page." We fulfill our mission by supporting the humans doing the writing. Please see this related post that speaks to our overall position on nondiscrimination with respect to approaches to creativity, writer's resources, and personal choice.

Note: we have edited this post by adding this paragraph to reflect our acknowledgment that there are bad actors in the AI space who are doing harm to writers and who are acting unethically. We want to make clear that, though we find the categorical condemnation for AI to be problematic for the reasons stated below, we are troubled by situational abuse of AI, and that certain situational abuses clearly conflict with our values. We also want to make clear that AI is a large umbrella technology and that the size and complexity of that category (which includes both non-generative and generative AI, among other uses) contributes to our belief that it is simply too big to categorically endorse or not endorse.

We believe that to categorically condemn AI would be to ignore classist and ableist issues surrounding the use of the technology, and that questions around the use of AI tie to questions around privilege.

• Classism. Not all writers have the financial ability to hire humans to help at certain phases of their writing. For some writers, the decision to use AI is a practical, not an ideological, one. The financial ability to engage a human for feedback and review assumes a level of privilege that not all community members possess.
• Ableism. Not all brains have same abilities and not all writers function at the same level of education or proficiency in the language in which they are writing. Some brains and ability levels require outside help or accommodations to achieve certain goals. The notion that all writers “should“ be able to perform certain functions independently or is a position that we disagree with wholeheartedly. There is a wealth of reasons why individuals can't "see" the issues in their writing without help.
• General Access Issues. All of these considerations exist within a larger system in which writers don't always have equal access to resources along the chain. For example, underrepresented minorities are less likely to be offered traditional publishing contracts, which places some, by default, into the indie author space, which inequitably creates upfront cost burdens that authors who do not suffer from systemic discrimination may have to incur.

Beyond that, we see value in sharing resources and information about AI and any emerging technology, issue, or discussion that is relevant to the writing community as a whole. It's healthy for writers to be curious about what's new and forthcoming, and what might impact their career space or their pursuit of the craft. Our events with a connection to AI have been extremely well-attended, further-proof that this programming is serving Wrimos who want to know more.

For all of those reasons, we absolutely do not condemn AI, and we recognize and respect writers who believe that AI tools are right for them. We recognize that some members of our community stand staunchly against AI for themselves, and that's perfectly fine. As individuals, we have the freedom to make our own decisions.

Edit: reactions




Clearly, this is going over well.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

God, that's so funny. First they get exposed for shielding pedos, then their acting director starts throwing her weight around and acting like a cut-rate Mussolini, then they decide to put all legal liability for potential future incidents on their volunteers instead of themselves, and now this. If they actually manage to survive to this November, let alone next one, it'll be a miracle.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Nanowrimo just put out a statement about AI.

Not allowing AI is ableist and classist. Because racism, I guess.

Not that I support NaNoWriMo here, but I swear the people screeching the loudest about this aren't as butt-hurt about AI as they are about their language, their victimization racket being turned back on them.

Imagine an SJW saying that about virtually anything else, on any topic in particular you can think of.

'Course NaNoWriMo currently also has a sponsor (ProWritingAid) that is explicitly an AI product, which does very little to bolster NaNoWriMo's case as standing forthrightly with the downtrodden.

If they actually manage to survive to this November, let alone next one, it'll be a miracle.

Could be, depends how well funded they are. If they've got a big war chest they'll probably be some sort of palace coup where San Francisco muppet naive lefties are replaced with the bat-shit insane motivated by social justice variety.

edit: to answer my own question, I went and looked up their charity returns. (Since 2017 they're supposed to be publicly available on the IRS website. The 2023 return isn't due until November 15, so we don't have that yet, alas. )

Spoiler: autism, now with screenshots

2021 to 2022 took a Yuuggggeeee hit with contributions, dropping by just under a quarter. Still, nothing to sneeze at.

(As an aside, and kind of a pain in the ass, the 2022 return doesn't show on the IRS website, but I was able to get a copy from the California charity site, link here. I'm gonna assume this is an IRS error with posting it and not NaNoWriMo's fault.)
To go back to 2020, use the prior year on this screenie (2021 return):

As of the end of 2022, they have $500,000-ish in cash and cash equivalents...

And two board members pulling in six figures...

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

View attachment 6364239
Considering who the audience is(big name SFF writers, editors and publishers) I'd argue that this had a fairly significant impact,

Interesting find! And thanks. Like I said, definitely maybe. Just that things didn't move as fast in the pre-internet era, and the link at Wikipedia is to the biography of Anne McCaffrey, who was hardly a disinterested party to the organization's growth.

also note how well written this piece is.

Damon Knight was a filthy huwite man, though, so he gets no credit. (I'm assuming he wrote this, since I think he was pretty much a one man show at organization's beginning.)

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Interesting find! And thanks. Like I said, definitely maybe. Just that things didn't move as fast in the pre-internet era, and the link at Wikipedia is to the biography of Anne McCaffrey, who was hardly a disinterested party to the organization's growth.

Damon Knight was a filthy huwite man, though, so he gets no credit. (I'm assuming he wrote this, since I think he was pretty much a one man show at organization's beginning.)

Damon Knight feels like an underrated writer and I kinda want to see if I can't find more of his work.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

The NaNoWriMo ouroboros will never not be funny. This is what happens when you take it seriously, you stress the fuck out and then make bad decisions during your breaking point.

I'm all the more grateful I never got involved with that community, it sounds so insufferable.

 

[Commissar Fuklaw]

It's why I'm not involved with any creative community.

 

[Flexo]

Imagine an SJW saying that about virtually anything else, on any topic in particular you can think of.

Yes.... yes!!!!! Inject it directly it into my hydraulic tubes! The irony is delicious!

 

[Gnillik Yot]

NaNoWriMo out there trying to contribute to cancel culture by adding more isms, eh? Notice how they failed to put out a statement about their pedophilia grooming mod. What pieces of shit, trying to distract from their grooming controversy by manufacturing "woke" discourse on whether it's "ableist" or "classist" to oppose AI.

But let me answer the question this bitch raised. Is it ableist to oppose AI writing? Yes, because it keeps retards from being able to publish books. No, I don't mean down syndrome people, I mean moron retards who masturbate all day and don't know the difference between their and there. But I don't want this kind of person publishing books! So, no, it's not "ableist" in the way that woke people use the word to oppose AI writing, but AI does allow more illiterate morons to flood the market with crap.

 

[Vecr]

and don't know the difference between their and there

You think that stops people from selling books? Maybe you'll have an editor to fix it but probably not with all the self-publishing going around.

 

[Gnillik Yot]

You think that stops people from selling books? Maybe you'll have an editor to fix it but probably not with all the self-publishing going around.

Most of the people pumping out AI novellas on Amazon wouldn't have hired an editor either way. It's about discipline, and, yes, money. AI lowers the talent bar even more than it already is, destroying the last, weak gatekeeper that existed. It is indeed classist to oppose stuff like AI writing instead of hiring editors, but since when do I accept the framing that classism is always bad? I don't believe publishing a book is a "human right" because I'm not a communist. Of course, communists who oppose AI art are in a hypocrisy pretzel. How can they justify gatekeeping a poor retard from India from using AI to make his financial dreams come true?

 

[World Famous Quasi Payer]

Most of the people pumping out AI novellas on Amazon

That's already a thing? Christ, I'd hoped we'd have a little while longer before the flood of AI sewage. Gonna be even harder now for good writers to break out of obscurity.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

That's already a thing? Christ, I'd hoped we'd have a little while longer before the flood of AI sewage. Gonna be even harder now for good writers to break out of obscurity.

The rules for submitting stuff like Romance novels practically begs for AI.

Think about it. 60 to 80 k words, a happily ever after ending, a cute and endearing yet also totally her own woman protagonist, an understanding male feminist yet totally ripped 6'4" hottie love interest, a sex scene at around 20%, some sort of silly drama at 50% a reconciliation at around 75% a (minor) bit of drama quickly ironed out at 80%, a multipage sex scene shortly after and a happily ever after ending, possibly as a flashback. Optional bits to mix it up like (pets), (sex with the WRONG dude, oh no!) , (disapproving parents) and (gay best friends to go shopping with [since we're totally progressive, maybe that could be trans nowadays]) all of which can be shifted in and out via some sort of random number generator.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

Written sex is already bad enough as it is, AI-generated sex scenes are going to sound stilted and clinical as fuck.

 

[TapewormSalesman]

The rules for submitting stuff like Romance novels practically begs for AI.

Think about it. 60 to 80 k words, a happily ever after ending, a cute and endearing yet also totally her own woman protagonist, an understanding male feminist yet totally ripped 6'4" hottie love interest, a sex scene at around 20%, some sort of silly drama at 50% a reconciliation at around 75% a (minor) bit of drama quickly ironed out at 80%, a multipage sex scene shortly after and a happily ever after ending, possibly as a flashback. Optional bits to mix it up like (pets), (sex with the WRONG dude, oh no!) , (disapproving parents) and (gay best friends to go shopping with [since we're totally progressive, maybe that could be trans nowadays]) all of which can be shifted in and out via some sort of random number generator.

Don't forget the unnecessary very important paragraph somewhere in the first chapter reminiscing about the fact that the MC is NOT a virgin, and has fucked a man she had no feelings for. Even in a setting where this goes against the heavily emphasized rules of the world.
Nah but seriously, why do all these authors hate virgins so much?

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Nah but seriously, why do all these authors hate virgins so much?

Well, in contemporary romance the female main characters tend to be around 30 these days, so intact hymens might be pushing it a bit. But you could simply imply that she's been around the block more times than a school bus without making it some sort of statement of feminine power, so I guess I agree to a point.

It also might be something agents and publishers want to see because of the hive mind of current day publishing, though I think the vast majority of romance novels sold are actually self-published, and have been for years now, so that idea may or may not hold water.

 

[World Famous Quasi Payer]

Nah but seriously, why do all these authors hate virgins so much?

The actual authors, who are majority female, jumped on the first bit of dick they found hot in high school or college instead of waiting. Now instead of admitting with hindsight that waiting would have been the right move, they degrade the idea of purity or saving yourself for the right man. Or the idea the right man might want a pure woman.

If we changed as a culture to be less sex obsessed you'd see the opposite where the self-insert main character saves herself and the main plot is about who mister right really is. Then they get married and then you have the sex scenes in the later half of the book.