YABookgate

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The genres have at least been around in modern form since the 1920s, which coincides (roughly) with the rise of Sword & Sorcery (Robert E. Howard) and the beginnings of modern western fantasy (Merritt and Dunsany)
Yeah, the guy I'm most familiar with is Jin Yong. I've read a few of his novellas and his stuff really does remind me of old-school sword and sorcery.

I feel like 20th century Hong Kong really was the peak for modern Chinese literature.
 
Some IL customers are cancelling because of too many M/F romances, some are cancelling because of too many F/F romances (the books this year seem to be about 50/50 split) and now neither will have the ability to skip that box while still retaining their space on the subscription list so they are just cancelling overall (- the obvious decision is to split the genres FF and MF but whatever, romantasy is definitely more of a 'self insert' genre, so it makes sense that fags will want fag shit, and housewives will want some buff shadow daddy to read about.)
Only problem with splitting is F/F isn't popular enough to stand on its own. Whereas F/M can, and will sell with few skips except illumicrate will get cancelled for heteronormative blah blah blah bullshit. Ought to just offer an alternative book every month so that way the five sapphics can have their titty on titty, and the majority can have their bad boy romance or whatever they're calling nowadays.
 
Women don't want real gay romances. They want fluffy feel good wholesome chungus gay stories with men who might as well be women for how they act.

There's two types of gay romance in contemporary lit right now.

Wholesome chungus meet-cute romcom tropes safe-horny (for women) gay

and

bent over the back of a dumpster in (insert big city here) with thinly veiled author whining about how DomTop 29 blocked him on Grindr "ugh im so tired of hookup culture 🙄" while actively engaging in it gay

Note that all flavors of nonbinary and genderblobbery go in the first category
 
Don't Chinese people tend to be very enthusiastic when it comes to their own culture though? Especially when it comes to ancient China. I see the labels wuxia and xianxia in a lot of online spaces now and even though I only have a surface level knowledge of it, from what I can tell it seems to be spreading a lot.
The Cultural Revolution destroyed huge amounts of actual Chinese culture, what exists now is a mostly artificial construct. Wuxia and Xianxia are a sort of... Disney? Renfest? version of what once existed. As others said, most native Chinese are total bugmen who don't really care that their culture was murdered.
 
I'm not that much knowledgeable about Wuxia stuff, because where I'm from (and in my time) the people who read that are mostly either Chinese or old people. They're often repetitive and full of asspull, owing to their pulpy nature

Most of the current works nowadays are self-insert power fantasy bullshit or dicks on dicks homo stuff. The latter keeps getting cracked down by Beijing lately though
 
This whole video is good but the timestamp around 16:13 is what stood out to me. The depression reaction despite never reading smut actually freaked me out. I know almost nothing about any of the books listed but I'm a bit scared to.
It's emotional manipulation because the main characters (love interest(s) included) are written to be such non-characters that the reader can self-insert herself into the role to "experience" it. That's the "female power fantasy", and that's why BookTok will only talk about the sex.

I think most of them are "slow burn", too, which is surprisingly popular but only works well when the characters act like real characters. Been reading ACOTAR for the psych study (I swear it) and the main characters have of yet to boink halfway into the book, of which you swear based on reviews and talk of it that that's all the characters ever do. The modern woman doesn't care about story, they just want the illusion of having the "perfect" man—the one who's sexy, protective, and provides for everything no matter what even if you're a stupid defiant brat who deserves the terrible consequences that comes with disobedience.
 
It's emotional manipulation because the main characters (love interest(s) included) are written to be such non-characters that the reader can self-insert herself into the role to "experience" it. That's the "female power fantasy", and that's why BookTok will only talk about the sex.

I think most of them are "slow burn", too, which is surprisingly popular but only works well when the characters act like real characters. Been reading ACOTAR for the psych study (I swear it) and the main characters have of yet to boink halfway into the book, of which you swear based on reviews and talk of it that that's all the characters ever do. The modern woman doesn't care about story, they just want the illusion of having the "perfect" man—the one who's sexy, protective, and provides for everything no matter what even if you're a stupid defiant brat who deserves the terrible consequences that comes with disobedience.
So, it's just a different kind of power fantasy, but they're all taking over mainstream SFF with this
 
I see the labels wuxia and xianxia in a lot of online spaces now and even though I only have a surface level knowledge of it, from what I can tell it seems to be spreading a lot.
Wuxia reminds me of litRPG. But instead of leveling up and having classes you have various cultivation power levels and paths.

EDIT:
they just want the illusion of having the "perfect" man—the one who's sexy, protective, and provides for everything no matter what
So it's just the female equivalent of a manic pixie dream girl?

even if you're a stupid defiant brat who deserves the terrible consequences that comes with disobedience.
What? Is that some kind of BDSM thing?
 
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So, it's just a different kind of power fantasy, but they're all taking over mainstream SFF with this
I mean, say what you will about horny women but they show up and actually buy books. Not just the normal releases but they'll preorder the super special collector's edition that smells like jasmine or some shit.

Wuxia reminds me of litRPG. But instead of leveling up and having classes you have various cultivation power levels and paths.
That's Xianxia. More specifically, a modern subgenre/sidegenre of xianxia called 'cultivation.' There's some elements of cultivation in conventional Xianxia stories but it's not really the focus.

The difference (this is an oversimplification obv) between Wuxia and Xianxia is that the latter puts far more focus on supernatural elements to the point where the main character is usually some kind of trasncendent being whereas the former is about adventure. You can have supernatural shit in wuxia but your main dude is more likely to just rely on traditional martial arts.
 
I mean, say what you will about horny women but they show up and actually buy books. Not just the normal releases but they'll preorder the super special collector's edition that smells like jasmine or some shit.
to be fair, special editions that get enough advertisement will often get bought up. But I do know mainstream sci-fi/fantasy/horror special editions can be hit or miss. Some outfits do them great and advertise the print run well. Others don't.

What I do notice is that, often, it's special editions for older established authors (Dan Simmons, Connie WIllis, Arthur C. Clarke), limited-access authors that have scarcely been reprinted (R. A. Lafferty, Karl Edward Wagner), or mainstream successes (Andy Weir).

That being said, I fucking hate the collectable book market because there's too many retards who think "popular older author" means money.
 
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So it's just the female equivalent of a manic pixie dream girl?
It's just like with Bella but smuttier.

What? Is that some kind of BDSM thing?
No, they think getting hostile towards the love interest and being a disobedient brat still keeps you a man willing to put up with your dumbass behavior. Far as I know, it's not BDSM-related.
 
It's just like with Bella but smuttier.
That's why I compared it to a magic pixie dream girl. The fantasy of this magical girl that appears and takes you away from your boring life and is all over you and also is pretty and kind.
I never read any shlicklit but from cultural osmosis I would say that the "perfect" man you describe is a similar concept but targeted at women.
Some emotionally inaccessible man that is rich and successful and he for some reason falls in love with the blank slate female MC and takes her into his castle, where he then pushes past her boundaries but only in ways that makes her feel good and desired instead of violated and abused. And in the end she fixes him.

No, they think getting hostile towards the love interest and being a disobedient brat still keeps you a man willing to put up with your dumbass behavior. Far as I know, it's not BDSM-related.
But what are the "terrible consequences"? And why does she have to be "obedient"? You make it sound like there is more going on than the guy just dumping the MC because he's sick of her shitstirring.Disobedient brat reminds me of tsunderes. I wonder if there is a group of female anime enjoyers that enjoy tsunderes for that reason.
 
Hodgson was part of that pre-Lovecraft/post-Poe stage of horror where things got weird. Machen, Blackwood, Hodgson, and Chambers were all pretty good.

I'll also mention A. Merritt. He was another big influence on Lovecraft and was the big fantasy guy before Tolkein. He was big enough to have gotten his own pulp magazine too! Guy was also a legitimate literary figure of his time. Merritt influenced and inspired tons of stuff, from Lovecraft and many Weird Tales writers, to the creation of DC's Dr. Fate (read Ship of Ishtar), and even got to meet Lovecraft. (It didn't go well)
Thanks! I'll need to look some of those names up.

Women don't want real gay romances. They want fluffy feel good wholesome chungus gay stories with men who might as well be women for how they act.
I remember hearing a story, I think it was on here, about some of the pooners (women who trans into men) being very disappointed and grossed out by how actual guys behave in actual locker rooms. It wasn't any of that "uwu will they/won't they" flirtatious stuff.

So, it's just a different kind of power fantasy, but they're all taking over mainstream SFF with this
Say what you will, at least guy porn never took over a genre or pushed out other stuff. (though comics may just become only that)

No, they think getting hostile towards the love interest and being a disobedient brat still keeps you a man willing to put up with your dumbass behavior. Far as I know, it's not BDSM-related.
Which is really funny because in real life (when it hits them), a guy like that will have so many options for women he typically wouldn't bother with that kind of girl.

But what are the "terrible consequences"? And why does she have to be "obedient"? You make it sound like there is more going on than the guy just dumping the MC because he's sick of her shitstirring.Disobedient brat reminds me of tsunderes. I wonder if there is a group of female anime enjoyers that enjoy tsunderes for that reason.
Depends on the story but probably something that puts her in danger. We talked about the Night Lands earlier in this thread, and it's not bad but there are scenes like the rescuing guy is telling the girl "please don't make noise" and the girl shouts "why?" thus drawing predators and dangers to their location.

At least in my experience, rarely is the guy giving orders like, "you shall wake up at 7:34am and eat a single slice of dry white toast." and the girl's being disobedient to that. It's more stuff like, "don't talk to that guy, he's my main rival and would hurt you to get to me" and then she goes and talks to the rival and ends up kidnapped or hurt.

Remember the whole "bear vs man" meme? Stuff like that. Being "disobedient" in the manner of thinking a bear is better company than another human being.
 
Long drawn out theory - A lot of the 'bad boy romances' that are super popular nowadays are because the authors and readers have vaguely shitty/inattentive boyfriends and it's a way for them to reframe it as Super Romantic.
In ACOTAR Rhysand tells her what to and controls what she wears in one scene- because he's protecting her. When he's cold and callous it's because he can't let his true feelings show; when other love interest Tamlin does it he's the wrongun but Rhysand doing it is because of TRUE LOVE and their are Fated Mates. Its very similiar to that one white trash couple you know where he beats her and she keeps babytrapping him posting about being 'twin flames' on Facebook; cope because they can't/don't want to break up. They are MEANT to be together.
There are many other bookboyfriends like this - Xaden (Xayden?) in fourth wing is bit sexually pushy but it's okay because he just wants to bring out the 'darkness' in Violet (or Violence as he calls her) and he can't control himself around her. If the love interest is part of some evil organisation/enemies to lovers trope, she fixes him and all his previous shitty behaviours are redeemed by their love and he's a Good Man (even if his actions in the narrative are still questionable). Again if he's the distant, unemotional type, its really because she makes him feel all these confusing, overwhelming emotions, and his love for her scares him but together they can make it work and when he's brooding and moody and bad tempered, he still loves her.
When you look at the authors (Fourth Wing for example) they often have military boyfriends or husbands or are surprisingly Mormon/Fundie adjacent. No shade to the military but your average Joe or average Utah man is not boyfriend of the century imho (I've posted about Willow Winters the 'spicy' writer before and her and her co-authors boyfriends all seem the fairly inattentive husband type, there's actually a few discussions about how writing the novels they do 'brought back their relationship').
Writing (and reading) these books where your shitty, uncaring boyfriend who is rude, jealous, controlling, or just a not great guy to be in a relationship with all, imho turns it into 'he really does care' and then you don't have to worry about him or your relationship anymore. There's a lot of small scenes in these books of the MMC taking care of the FMC (literally 'i bought you soup for your period cramps' scenes) or very very in Touch with his emotions after a big revelation that all his terrible behaviour to her was not him not-caring but him caring tooooo much (think Mr Darcy but in every single book without a shred of the self-reflection of Darcy and Elizabeth imho). There are definitely other things going on like the obedience stuff and a lot of romance is obviously just female fantasising about 'Man taking care of you/Man ordering you around' but the overwhelming presence of it in booktok/modern contemporary imho is not a great indicator.
There's a genuine argument you see sometimes in bookish circles that these new book boyfriends are incredibly unhealthy because authors and readers present them as PERFECT BOYFRIENDS true love (there's also something to be said about how the other love interests (Tamlin) will be immediately presented as mega abusive as well, very bpdemon imho), and the age of girls getting into bookish circles is getting lower and lower, while smut scenes in YA are near unchecked and the behaviour of some of these men is pretty awful. Controlling, rude, demanding, doesn't care for her opinions, questionable age gaps, locking her up, 'I know what's good for you', etc. It's not a great example to spread unchecked in modern lit and in almost every fuckin book.
Sorry if long and rambling, it's a theory ive had for a while looking at how popular it is and some of the authors relationships (I love to snoop) and some authors/readers posts. I think it just makes them feel better about their dating choices or lack of choices and being unable to speak up for themselves or something.

TL:DR 's no longer just bored housewives dreaming of Big Buff Italian men or Jamie from Outlander who will whisk them away for steamy sex and love confessions, but average Becky trying to justify that Brayden who ignores her for 23 hours a day and yells at her for interrupting his Fifa time is actually just like Rhysaden from Court of Fabulous Jems and Moths.
 
But what are the "terrible consequences"? And why does she have to be "obedient"? You make it sound like there is more going on than the guy just dumping the MC because he's sick of her shitstirring.
The "terrible consequences" I mentioned were either being literally killed by the lesser faeries, or getting assaulted/raped. She has been given perfectly-reasonable instructions and advice such as "Don't trust your senses here" or "Don't leave your room tonight and don't open the door no matter what", and every single time she does the exact opposite and nearly dies or get hurt. First go-round, I get it, she doesn't want to trust whom she assumes are her captors even though they tell her she's free to go where she pleases, but she legit believed a púca's illusion of her crippled father had hobbled after them for at least two days to get her and could've gotten herself eaten. Some weeks later, everyone's telling her to stay in her room that night and to not attend some faerie festival, and she leaves the manor anyway to go to check the festival out and almost got herself sexually assaulted by faeries--twice.

She's a legit stupid woman who defiantly chooses to just not listen to the locals who fucking know what they're talking about (though I mean, why the fuck would they give her the intricate details as to what goes on in the land when she has literal faerie blood on her hands?).

Disobedient brat reminds me of tsunderes. I wonder if there is a group of female anime enjoyers that enjoy tsunderes for that reason.
Tsunderes just have a hard time of accepting their personal feelings to a certain someone, and quality is all over the place. ACOTAR, as far as I can tell, has no tsunderes, just cardboard cut-out characters.

Depends on the story but probably something that puts her in danger. We talked about the Night Lands earlier in this thread, and it's not bad but there are scenes like the rescuing guy is telling the girl "please don't make noise" and the girl shouts "why?" thus drawing predators and dangers to their location.
Yeah, pretty much this, though Night Lands chick sounds more retarded.
 
Sheltered, not retarded - important distinction.
She's both.

When she realizes just how deep the shit they're in is, she locks in and even bags a few monsters of her own while her boyfriend is hurt.
I don't believe I've hit this part yet (unless you're talking about the naga scene? Lol, lmao even), and even then, based on what I'm seeing right now leading up to that point, it's not a natural progression. For someone who had to learn how to hunt to support her family, she is shit at thinking ahead. It's not instinct or self-discipline, it's literal dumb luck that comes out of nowhere.
 
She's both.


I don't believe I've hit this part yet (unless you're talking about the naga scene? Lol, lmao even), and even then, based on what I'm seeing right now leading up to that point, it's not a natural progression. For someone who had to learn how to hunt to support her family, she is shit at thinking ahead. It's not instinct or self-discipline, it's literal dumb luck that comes out of nowhere.
Are you talking about the Night Lands? I don't recall Naga in that (they're too vanilla) nor Naani being a hunter.
 
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