YABookgate

[SnarkySperg]

I had cause to mention this on another thread earlier today, but the "writer community" on social media is, to put it politely, batshit crazy. You never saw such a collection of censorious, self-appointed Grand Inquisitors. Fuck writing, these people are roaming the libraries of the internet with flamethrowers in hand. I may have to start documenting the lunacy that scrolls by my Twitter feed in a continuous stream of madness. Personal favorite is a freelance editor who is constantly calling people out for violating "their" ever more arcane code of conduct when it comes to representation and various sorts of -phobias.

I recently saw a post pop up on Twitter (I have an account where I focus on my writing and also follow other writers almost exclusively) asking 'do you all use the Bechdel Test in your writing?' No, because the Bechdel Test is bullshit and is not at all indicative of a strong female lead. You could literally have two girls sitting around talking about their hair and nails and nothing else and pass, but it's such a shallow subject it doesn't prove anything.

I looked at this writer's Twitter and it turns out she's big into shaming 'colonizers', big into BLM, believes silence is violence, and actually is pretty SJWy, so her writing YA makes complete sense. I'll leave the original Tweet here, you all are welcome to poke around her Twitter for yourself.

This is a super reasonable response that I respected.

The Twitter Writing Community is so weird because they're actually quite supportive of each other...but once they find you guilty of wrongthink, boom, canceled.

Also worth noting I see way less of this from the people who write more mature genres. It really is the YA writers who are like this.

 

[Mola Ram]

Also worth noting I see way less of this from the people who write more mature genres. It really is the YA writers who are like this.

YA is a goddamn snakepit. I think it's because it's dominated by incredibly immature writers, of the sort who not only don't like having their beliefs and ideas challenged, but literally do not know how to process such a challenge. You want fragility? Look no further.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

I recently saw a post pop up on Twitter (I have an account where I focus on my writing and also follow other writers almost exclusively) asking 'do you all use the Bechdel Test in your writing?' No, because the Bechdel Test is bullshit and is not at all indicative of a strong female lead. You could literally have two girls sitting around talking about their hair and nails and nothing else and pass, but it's such a shallow subject it doesn't prove anything.

Fifty Shades of Grey passes the Bechdel Test, and I can't imagine many people would consider that "feminist literature".

I want to go on a mini-rant, because that Hollywood High book reminded me of something.

Back in the mid-2000s, 'Mean Girl' was a popular genre for books. There was Pretty Little Liars, Gossip Girl, and some lesser known books. I'm going to talk about The Clique. This is the one I read. This is about a group of girls living in Westchester, New York, who are 7th graders who act like high schoolers. They're rich and snotty and hate each other, but they're also best friends. I have no idea how, but I managed to read the entire series, including the final book, which came out when I was a freshman in high school. It was very odd to think these girls are middle schoolers because they acted much older. It adds a bit of a creep factor to some aspects too.

Recently, I started getting into watching Booktubers out of boredom. Well, one in particular took serious issue with this series. She didn't have a problem with the lying, or backstabbing, or the way the girls acted, oh no. She took issue with the girl who ate a salad for lunch. She called it fatphobic. Here's where I stopped watching this person's channel completely. The girl in question had severe body dysmorphia and had an eating disorder because she thought she was fat. Her friends all told her she looked fine, but because her sisters bullied her for not being skinny enough, she decided she was fat and thus decided that going on a diet was a good idea. This (very skinny) Booktuber took personal offense to this, claiming it was fat shaming. For starters, fuck you, she had an eating disorder. Two, the girls weren't supposed to be nice. The whole point of the story was that they're shallow, vapid bitches who care more about appearances and material possessions than about being a good person. But yes, let's make it about how they're fat shaming and how horrible of a message it is for young girls. Teaching to backstab your best friends and lie to them? That's fine. Teaching that having a $400 purse is the most important thing? That's cool. Talking about a 16yo making out with a 12yo? Great! But talking about a girl having an eating disorder because her sisters bullied her into it? FATPHOBIA, DO NOT READ.

Has this person ever heard of the game Telephone? There's a reason we don't just pass stories down verbally.

I have seen some "fat activists" sperg that literal, real-life Anorexics are fat-shaming them by existing, so I'm not too shocked this extends to fictional characters with eating disorders too.

 

[SnarkySperg]

Fifty Shades of Grey passes the Bechdel Test, and I can't imagine many people would consider that "feminist literature".

This right here proves that it's absolute bullshit.

My book would not pass, but the female characters have their own personalities, and do great things. Sorry that their boyfriends help them, I guess?

I have seen some "fat activists" sperg that literal, real-life Anorexics are fat-shaming them by existing, so I'm not too shocked this extends to fictional characters with eating disorders too.

Yeah, it honestly pissed me off. She didn't even mention it being an eating disorder, so my guess is she sees this 12yo eats salad at lunch and doesn't think about it beyond 'OMG that's fat-shaming!'. Yeah, maybe there is a grain of truth to that claim (being fat is often seen as bad by those with eating disorders), but when they're to that point, telling them 'HOW DARE YOU THINK BEING FAT IS BAD! YOU SUCK!' is going to be less than effective.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

Kind of a stray thought I had on visiting Awfullibrarybooks.net. Once upon a time YA had a boatload of morality play type books about drug and alcohol use/abuse. Wonder if those days are gone forever, or if there's a chance they'll return? Probably before we see more books featuring white males playing hockey and drinking too much, at any rate.

The Boy Who Drank Too Much


Made into a TV special, back in the day...

Such drama.

Interestingly, GoodReads has the book listed but with what appears to be a 1990s cover, rather than the 1970s one shown here. So I guess somebody thought there was an audience for books like this to a later generation?

Thanks for indulging me in my brief ramble.

 

[Kari Kamiya]

This right here proves that it's absolute bullshit.

My book would not pass, but the female characters have their own personalities, and do great things. Sorry that their boyfriends help them, I guess?

More proof it's bullshit: Sailor Moon is lauded by feminists, but the girls talk about and gush over boys quite often and Usagi's boyfriend helps her out in a pinch (although that typically happened before they started dating). This is in the manga, too. So basically, anyone who loves Sailor Moon but then still pushes the extremely-outdated Bechdel Test have no belief system of their own and needs to be told by an algorithm how to write humans since they can't act like humans.

 

[Mola Ram]

More proof it's bullshit: Sailor Moon is lauded by feminists, but the girls talk about and gush over boys quite often and Usagi's boyfriend helps her out in a pinch (although that typically happened before they started dating). This is in the manga, too. So basically, anyone who loves Sailor Moon but then still pushes the extremely-outdated Bechdel Test have no belief system of their own and needs to be told by an algorithm how to write humans since they can't act like humans.

Strictly speaking, most pornos set in a women's prison or a sorority house probably pass the Bechdel test.

 

[SnarkySperg]

Strictly speaking, most pornos set in a women's prison or a sorority house probably pass the Bechdel test.

I think any sort of lesbian relationship would. To me, I don't think that being dependent on a woman is any better than being dependent on a man, a la Fifty Shades. If you pass the Bechdel Test because the women will just talk about their girlfriends instead of their boyfriends, I don't see much of a difference.

But of course failing means your characters suck and you're a misogynist (even if you're a woman).

The Bechdel Test is just feminists letting their narcissism cloud their common sense.

 

[Mola Ram]

I think any sort of lesbian relationship would. To me, I don't think that being dependent on a woman is any better than being dependent on a man, a la Fifty Shades. If you pass the Bechdel Test because the women will just talk about their girlfriends instead of their boyfriends, I don't see much of a difference.

But of course failing means your characters suck and you're a misogynist (even if you're a woman).

The Bechdel Test is just feminists letting their narcissism cloud their common sense.

I'm pretty sure Showgirls passes the Bechdel Test. It's complete horseshit, and that anyone treats it seriously is a symptom of how far the criticism and evaluation of writing has fallen in the last few decades.

 

[SnarkySperg]

I'm pretty sure Showgirls passes the Bechdel Test. It's complete horseshit, and that anyone treats it seriously is a symptom of how far the criticism and evaluation of writing has fallen in the last few decades.

I remember seeing a reply to the tweet I posted where it was seemingly some guy apologizing for not using it, like it's some huge failure on his part.

Also, there was an alarming number of replies agreeing with her and acting like it's important. As a writer, I'm honestly kinda freaked out that people are so pissy about female representation. If the characters are relatable, they're relatable. If they're not, they're not. I don't give a fuck what the gender of the main character is.

 

[gangweedfan]

YA is shit except for graphic novels which are fun and got me into more adult indie comics. the problem is that YA is all they have in high school (at least when I went it was almost all they had) and was invented to get kids into reading but fucks things up by being worse than any other genre because most YA books try to hard to be like a movie.

im not surprised SJWs are in YA now. personally I blame the dystopian novel trend which was ok but I guess set the way for more politics in YA.

 

[Mola Ram]

I remember seeing a reply to the tweet I posted where it was seemingly some guy apologizing for not using it, like it's some huge failure on his part.

Also, there was an alarming number of replies agreeing with her and acting like it's important. As a writer, I'm honestly kinda freaked out that people are so pissy about female representation. If the characters are relatable, they're relatable. If they're not, they're not. I don't give a fuck what the gender of the main character is.

The obsession with representation is frankly appalling. Nowhere is it worse than the "ownvoices" movement, which the writing world insists is about making the writing of underrepresented groups more visible and which I suspect is really about keeping the goddamn darkies and faggots in their own ghettoes.

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

The obsession with representation is frankly appalling. Nowhere is it worse than the "ownvoices" movement, which the writing world insists is about making the writing of underrepresented groups more visible and which I suspect is really about keeping the goddamn darkies and faggots in their own ghettoes.

I’m always surprised they don’t realize that forcing someone to out themselves to prove they “deserve” to write a piece of fiction is shitty. Trans and homosexual people shouldn’t be required to either tell the whole world about their personal lives or endure a bunch of shrieking harpies accusing them of bigotry and “talking over marginalized voices”. If I write a book with a gay character, it’s nobody’s damn business if I am also gay myself or not, but if you don’t list your minority-points for these people, the OwnVoices idiots will shit on you.

I have seen this happen before, in a review sperging out that John Boyne shouldn’t write a gay romance because they assumed he was straight. Suddenly, after being informed Boyne is in fact gay, they flip flopped and said it was a fantastic book. So, for these alleged “queer allies”, unless you out yourself and talk about being gay and nothing else, you deserve scorn.

 

[Dirty Mug]

The obsession with representation is frankly appalling. Nowhere is it worse than the "ownvoices" movement, which the writing world insists is about making the writing of underrepresented groups more visible and which I suspect is really about keeping the goddamn darkies and faggots in their own ghettoes.

I think it also pigeonholes minority writers into writing only their own kind. The insistence that only certain minorities can write about the experiences of their group also means they can't write about anything else except maybe whitey because whitey doesn't have their own culture (so they say), simply because other cultures aren't part of their "lived experience." I remember that one black sensitivity reader getting shredded over writing about gay Albanians.

Even if you do write about your own culture these #ownvoices fags would wilfully misinterpret it anyway as racist because it hurts black people or something.

 

[GeorgiaGuidestones]

I think it also pigeonholes minority writers into writing only their own kind. The insistence that only certain minorities can write about the experiences of their group also means they can't write about anything else except maybe whitey because whitey doesn't have their own culture (so they say), simply because other cultures aren't part of their "lived experience." I remember that one black sensitivity reader getting shredded over writing about gay Albanians.

Even if you do write about your own culture these #ownvoices fags would wilfully misinterpret it anyway as racist because it hurts black people or something.

Which will also limit their writing skills and they’ll never advance and never expand and never learn to be a better writer. Which can be construed as racist itself.

There’s only so many takes in books like “The Hate U Give” before regular readers say fuck this and take their money elsewhere.

I know a graphic designer who designs book covers on the side. After the George Floyd mess this person freaked and wasted money to design book covers for POCs for fear of being labeled a wassist. She’s really good at design, especially fantasy.

She has sold $0 and got a I told you so from me.

 

[Furina]

Kind of a stray thought I had on visiting Awfullibrarybooks.net. Once upon a time YA had a boatload of morality play type books about drug and alcohol use/abuse. Wonder if those days are gone forever, or if there's a chance they'll return? Probably before we see more books featuring white males playing hockey and drinking too much, at any rate.

The Boy Who Drank Too Much
View attachment 1380226

Made into a TV special, back in the day...

Such drama.

Interestingly, GoodReads has the book listed but with what appears to be a 1990s cover, rather than the 1970s one shown here. So I guess somebody thought there was an audience for books like this to a later generation?

Thanks for indulging me in my brief ramble.

There's going to be a ton of "morality play" type stories in the works right now, most likely. But rather than tackling issues that could realistically affect anyone regardless of race or gender, they're going to tackle the biggest sins of the 21st Century: racism, sexism, and transphobia. Naturally, the only acceptable bad guys in these stories will be straight, white guys, because their only role nowadays is to be the villains. Likewise, the protagonists will always be the victims of outside forces, rather than brought low by their own poor life choices. It's not your fault people don't like you, it's their's. It's always their's.

Now, I do the virtue in making books that help young L and G people understand that sometimes there will be people who just hate you because they do and there's really nothing you can do about that, but once again, that seems like a message that all kids need to learn. There's no point wasting your life in the slavish pursuit of acceptance at the hands of people who will never give it. Maybe some of those self-flagellating white protesters could have used a lesson like that...

 

[Next Task]

Fifty Shades of Grey passes the Bechdel Test, and I can't imagine many people would consider that "feminist literature".

Meanwhile, all the slash fiction they undoubtedly fap to wouldn't pass the Bechdel Test, so I'd be pretty sure they're guilty of consuming a lot of 'problematic literature'. Gay men stuff in general is less likely to pass, but gay men, certainly white gay men, aren't oppressed enough for this type of crowd anymore anyway.

I think it also pigeonholes minority writers into writing only their own kind. The insistence that only certain minorities can write about the experiences of their group also means they can't write about anything else except maybe whitey because whitey doesn't have their own culture (so they say), simply because other cultures aren't part of their "lived experience." I remember that one black sensitivity reader getting shredded over writing about gay Albanians.

There was at least one black writer whose name escapes me - Duffie, maybe? - who had to fight to not get pigeon-holed as the writer for Black Panther at Marvel, because black = the main black superhero writer. Comics have seen time and time again this new approach, where the only credentials a writer has for working on something is that they match the idpol of the character. Unsurprisingly, it very rarely works even out to an even mediocre level.

I'm just sure they're all also furiously rubbing themselves over the chance to cancel such a big name as JK Rowling. Undoubtedly, they think that if they can get rid of Harry Potter somehow then there's all these sales that their books will pick up, forgetting that this is not in any way how it works, doubly so for things like the shit they're pumping out.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

There was at least one black writer whose name escapes me - Duffie, maybe? - who had to fight to not get pigeon-holed as the writer for Black Panther at Marvel, because black = the main black superhero writer. Comics have seen time and time again this new approach, where the only credentials a writer has for working on something is that they match the idpol of the character. Unsurprisingly, it very rarely works even out to an even mediocre level.

That was probably Christopher Priest. He was the first black writer to make it big in comics, and he wrote what is widely considered the definitive run of Black Panther back in the late 90s and early 2000s. He got frustrated and quit comics for a while because Marvel and DC were only offering him black superheroes to write. He came back in when they gave him Deathstroke to write during Rebirth, and then he got to work on Justice League and the Inhumans, so his career is still trucking along.

The guy you named, Dwayne McDuffie, didn't work on Black Panther, but he did write a sarcastic script called Teenage Negro Ninja Thrashers to make fun of Marvel's tendency to have one-note black characters who were indistinguishable from each other. He wound up founding his own imprint to do more interesting stories with minority characters because he was sick of watching them get pigeonholed into the "Token Black/Latino/Asian" role, and he also created Static Shock and wrote a lot of episodes of the Justice League animated series.

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

Idk if it's the right thread, but I think a lot of those "writers" can't (and shouldn't) write at all cause they don't even get what is what...when there are such hot takes as "homage is what white men call their fanfiction" doing rounds, idpol stuff is not even the biggest issue.

 

[Fandom Trash]

Seeing the disaster that is The Last of 2 and how it degraded its two beat characters to make room for one that is highly despicable and unlikable, I have a feeling all this sjw shit is going to seep into everything we know and care about.

Probably already did.

Ya books already got the brunt end of it, with most books nowadays catering to the middle class millenials moms who want to feel good that they are reading something so "cultured and woke."

And it sucks for minority writers who feel like they have to continue to cater to these types of people; constantly writing about their own culture to even be on the radar to get publish or even talked about.

A surprising amount of ya books now are mostly about asian girls (for some reason) fantasy with a 'strong female protaganist' or softcore yaoi books. And the dozen or so fairytale retellings that tend to be written every so month or so.

I don't know when this trend will end. We might be looking at a couple of years of this.