YIIK: A Post Modern RPG / Ackk Studios / Andrew Allanson - "I wanted to make a game with a protagonist who was very unlikeable" - From Someone who is equally unlikeable. Currently developing Version I.V (1.5)

That's what makes it a bummer. Hipster Goony Beardman: Earthbound Style seems like a fun idea. I don't know how old Nes was(10-12) but having Hipster Goony Beardman venture out into the world with a similar understanding of the world as a kid in the 80's would have could make a good game. Especially if its framed from his perspective. His dad still sends him money.

I agree, there is a lot of potential with the premise and if handled competently than it probably could have been pretty fun in the right hands. Unfortunately it would need to lose the writer (I can never remember which brother it is so they're just "the writer" to me) because honestly that's the problem here and unfortunately I think he's embedded in too deep for any of this to be salvageable.

That said the idea HAS been done well with Scott Pilgrim, although that was less Earthbound focused and more just general retro games.
Scott essentially lives in the same type of world as Alex Yiik (thanks to Oney I will never call him anything else) where video game tropes are part of their everyday life and very random and surreal occurrences intertwine with genuine attempts to enter adulthood while struggling with letting go of childhood comforts and habits.
The problem is that the writer has decided that entire book series can also live inside Persona 4's supernatural murder mystery, complete with going into people's subconscious and (sometimes) helping them through their personal turmoil to solve a supernatural murder mystery. Ah you know what? Still not enough, why don't we also have the same group walk through a bunch of the story beats from Kafka on the Shore.

And to finish it all off, why don't we take all those big experiences and ideas and shove them into a 35 hour (max) game that somehow still feels too long.

If the writer wasn't so focused on convincing us that he's a big smart boy who reads big smart books maybe he could have made his version of Scott Pilgrim, or Persona.

An alternative to the outright theft as well could have had the characters actually go through some of the plotlines from the stories he stole, or meet some of the actual characters, and use their knowledge of them to "win" the scenarios. Alex is supposed to be fresh out of college, right? Maybe their world is colliding with that of some literary greats.
You'd have to tiptop through some things legally since it's not like Earthbound or Murakami are in the public domain like Fables or Kill Shakespeare but a good writer could make it work.

I'm rambling again. This subject really makes me ramble,
 
I agree, there is a lot of potential with the premise and if handled competently than it probably could have been pretty fun in the right hands. Unfortunately it would need to lose the writer (I can never remember which brother it is so they're just "the writer" to me) because honestly that's the problem here and unfortunately I think he's embedded in too deep for any of this to be salvageable.

That said the idea HAS been done well with Scott Pilgrim, although that was less Earthbound focused and more just general retro games.
Scott essentially lives in the same type of world as Alex Yiik (thanks to Oney I will never call him anything else) where video game tropes are part of their everyday life and very random and surreal occurrences intertwine with genuine attempts to enter adulthood while struggling with letting go of childhood comforts and habits.
The problem is that the writer has decided that entire book series can also live inside Persona 4's supernatural murder mystery, complete with going into people's subconscious and (sometimes) helping them through their personal turmoil to solve a supernatural murder mystery. Ah you know what? Still not enough, why don't we also have the same group walk through a bunch of the story beats from Kafka on the Shore.

And to finish it all off, why don't we take all those big experiences and ideas and shove them into a 35 hour (max) game that somehow still feels too long.

If the writer wasn't so focused on convincing us that he's a big smart boy who reads big smart books maybe he could have made his version of Scott Pilgrim, or Persona.

An alternative to the outright theft as well could have had the characters actually go through some of the plotlines from the stories he stole, or meet some of the actual characters, and use their knowledge of them to "win" the scenarios. Alex is supposed to be fresh out of college, right? Maybe their world is colliding with that of some literary greats.
You'd have to tiptop through some things legally since it's not like Earthbound or Murakami are in the public domain like Fables or Kill Shakespeare but a good writer could make it work.

I'm rambling again. This subject really makes me ramble,
Persona uses mythological characters and Sherlock Holmes is also public domain, but they might have to scour which ones are.
 
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I agree, there is a lot of potential with the premise and if handled competently than it probably could have been pretty fun in the right hands. Unfortunately it would need to lose the writer (I can never remember which brother it is so they're just "the writer" to me) because honestly that's the problem here and unfortunately I think he's embedded in too deep for any of this to be salvageable.

That said the idea HAS been done well with Scott Pilgrim, although that was less Earthbound focused and more just general retro games.
Scott essentially lives in the same type of world as Alex Yiik (thanks to Oney I will never call him anything else) where video game tropes are part of their everyday life and very random and surreal occurrences intertwine with genuine attempts to enter adulthood while struggling with letting go of childhood comforts and habits.
The problem is that the writer has decided that entire book series can also live inside Persona 4's supernatural murder mystery, complete with going into people's subconscious and (sometimes) helping them through their personal turmoil to solve a supernatural murder mystery. Ah you know what? Still not enough, why don't we also have the same group walk through a bunch of the story beats from Kafka on the Shore.

And to finish it all off, why don't we take all those big experiences and ideas and shove them into a 35 hour (max) game that somehow still feels too long.

If the writer wasn't so focused on convincing us that he's a big smart boy who reads big smart books maybe he could have made his version of Scott Pilgrim, or Persona.

An alternative to the outright theft as well could have had the characters actually go through some of the plotlines from the stories he stole, or meet some of the actual characters, and use their knowledge of them to "win" the scenarios. Alex is supposed to be fresh out of college, right? Maybe their world is colliding with that of some literary greats.
You'd have to tiptop through some things legally since it's not like Earthbound or Murakami are in the public domain like Fables or Kill Shakespeare but a good writer could make it work.

I'm rambling again. This subject really makes me ramble,
If anything, YIIK encourages a lot of discussion.
 
If that example didn't ring with you, let me try a different one: You ever pay a horror game? One that really shook you up but in a way you loved? Try talking about that same game with someone who has only watched an LP of it. Sure, they'll have all the plot points, puzzles and characters but they can't relate to how those moments made you feel.
And I'm not saying that's a bad way to experience something, but it's probably going to rub you the wrong way if they then declare themselves an authority on said horror game and start arguing interpretations with you when they themselves only experienced a 2nd hand (and therefore much more shallow) version.

That's what YIIK's writer has done to the bits he lifted straight from Kafka on the Shore (and probably others but I'm going to stick with what I've read here. I think I've recognized a few Palahniuk bits too but he doesn't list any in the "credits" so I won't just assume at the moment). He took things like finding the love interest's record, copied it (and turned it into a boring fetch quest), and tacked on the shallowest interpretation of the whole thing ("She wrote the song for the man she loved and lost, who was another version of our Protagonist. Our version finds the song, connects with it because it's "for him" and they fall in love because of it") rather than maybe looking at the record and its importance to the story as a whole (I won't go too deep but I always looked at it more like a gateway, or a physical manifestation of a crack in reality) and how it relates to the deeper themes of music, fate and slipping between realities.
It also reminds me of the movie Birdemic: Shock And Terror. The reason the movie was made was because the director saw Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds" and AL Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and they inspired him to become a director. So he...stole the plots of both movies and jammed them together into one nonsensical movie, like what a machine learning algorithm would do.
 
If anything, YIIK encourages a lot of discussion.

If it seems like I'm just shitting up the thread with pretencious whining though you guys can can tell me to stfu through ratings or replies. I mean, I can't promise I won't drink a bottle of wine and be back with more "BUT AKTSHWELLY...."s but it may discourage me if all these rants feel tedious.

It also reminds me of the movie Birdemic: Shock And Terror. The reason the movie was made was because the director saw Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds" and AL Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and they inspired him to become a director. So he...stole the plots of both movies and jammed them together into one nonsensical movie, like what a machine learning algorithm would do.

Yes! That's also a really good example, although I will say at the very least Birdemic was so bad it was good in my opinion. There was fun to be had there, and some genuine heart to it along with all the unintentional humour. From Birdemic I got a "This was a good movie and a good message and I'm going to take both those to a new audience" kind of feel whereas YiiK (and this may be because of what the writer said later but it is my impression of it) felt more like it was saying "these are smart books by smart writers, I'm going to show those idiots I'm smart too!"

I think you hit it with the description of "what a machine learning algorithm would do" for YiiK as well. I actually like that a lot when it comes to describing this because it's true; a machine wouldn't get metaphor or allegory, it would be just a smash up of all the data with none of the humanizing meaning. The only thing I would say is at least a machine would know to cut out half of the whining!
 
If it seems like I'm just shitting up the thread with pretencious whining though you guys can can tell me to stfu through ratings or replies. I mean, I can't promise I won't drink a bottle of wine and be back with more "BUT AKTSHWELLY...."s but it may discourage me if all these rants feel tedious.



Yes! That's also a really good example, although I will say at the very least Birdemic was so bad it was good in my opinion. There was fun to be had there, and some genuine heart to it along with all the unintentional humour. From Birdemic I got a "This was a good movie and a good message and I'm going to take both those to a new audience" kind of feel whereas YiiK (and this may be because of what the writer said later but it is my impression of it) felt more like it was saying "these are smart books by smart writers, I'm going to show those idiots I'm smart too!"

I think you hit it with the description of "what a machine learning algorithm would do" for YiiK as well. I actually like that a lot when it comes to describing this because it's true; a machine wouldn't get metaphor or allegory, it would be just a smash up of all the data with none of the humanizing meaning. The only thing I would say is at least a machine would know to cut out half of the whining!
No worries, dude. Rant and talk away. Hell, I went into a long spiel/theory about how Rory was originally meant to be an antagonist back when Oney was plying the game.

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Something about this image makes me think Rory(and maybe Chandra) were added in later as an afterthought. All the other characters are shown almost full body(save for Essentia(since she’s sort of the sought-after main focus of the game), but Rory is only seen from the shoulders up, much bigger than the rest of the cast, and is the only one not wielding a weapon(I know he doesn’t attack, but he does still have his sign). Hell, with the way he’s shaded and the expression on his face, he looks more like he’s an antagonist, as if he’s the one the party is raving to beat in finding Essentia. In fact, a story in which Rory is actively against the group and is after the Essentia in some doomed bid to get his sister back could probably work a lot better, story-wise. Still keep him as a pacifist, but he can use those pointless negotiation skills to have monsters fight for him. Hell, have him fuse with that Soul Survivor version of himself and let him tap into having more powers and abilities over said monsters, but gaining partial knowledge of an alternate life makes him go crazy, which would give him a reason to think Essentia could bring his sister back. He could also get some hint as to Alex being the destroyer of realities and see himself as the one fighting the actual bad guy, Alex. If you still need a “doesn’t attack, only blocks” character for the team, make it Panda. He and Rory essentially share the same purpose in battle, and he’s already on the advertisement for the game up there.

I don’t know how to feel about putting this much thought into YIIK of all things.

Only real reason I think Chandra looks added in latter is how she’s just shoved up in the corner all by herself, but maybe she was moved to add Rory in, which would add to the whole “last second addition”. Actually, come to think about it, everything about Rory’s gameplay mechanics is just copied from another character. He and Panda are basically the same, battle-wise, and the ability he gives Alex is the exact same as Vella: an obstacle remover. You even get both one right after the other.

Okay, seriously, know I’m thinking of a lot of other stuff you could do with “Rory as an antagonist”, and I need to stop for before I type another 5 paragraphs.
 
Oh interesting! The problem is your theory puts more thought into Rory than I think the writer ever did. I really like what you picked up on him from the art; a good game dev would have been thrilled to hear that these more subtle details were used to decipher their intensions. Instead I'm sure the writer for YiiK would have just had Rory scream "NOW I'M EVIL" every second line and had him wear a shirt that says "villain".

I actually really enjoy your thoughts on a kinda-pacifist villain too, using charisma to command opposing forces would be a great excuse to have your baddie flee at the end of each battle and come back with greater numbers. I honestly thought that same twist, with the party turning against Alex, would be great when Useless Photographer friend became enlightened (for no reason) but yep, just another wasted opportunity.

I don't understand the party in the game at all. I liked the idea of everyone bringing something personal to the adventure (their "tool" I guess, like Panda or the cat but even that wasn't done well, as you mentioned several tools even have the same effect so what's the point?) but like, no one was The Tank or The Healer so you couldn't choose characters based on your playstyle or even what you wanted to achieve in a certain battle; everyone was just kind of the same with different animations UNTIL an OP move was unlocked and then everyone else was just useless.
If you don't care about balancing your combat, just don't make a game with combat in it.
I dunno, to me that seems pretty simple. You can have a narrative based puzzle game, why not do that instead? Or if you do insist on combat to complete your "homage" then take some time to learn how to balance it all. This kind of carelessness towards gameplay just smacks of an egotistical "Turn based combat normally sucks but I'm smart enough to make it COOL" attitude rather than any sort of affection for the systems or even respect for your players (If you're more worried about being better than you are about being fun, you're in the wrong industry).
 
although I will say at the very least Birdemic was so bad it was good in my opinion
I'd compare YIIK to something like Manos: Hands of Fate. The MST3K of Manos is enjoyable but still at times really drags on from how bad it is, just as the Oneyplays is a good time even if you will need to take some breaks for how boring the game is. Yet in both cases, the source material is simply joyless if you try to suffer through it on your own.
 
I'd compare YIIK to something like Manos: Hands of Fate. The MST3K of Manos is enjoyable but still at times really drags on from how bad it is, just as the Oneyplays is a good time even if you will need to take some breaks for how boring the game is. Yet in both cases, the source material is simply joyless if you try to suffer through it on your own.
Yeah, the only way you’re gonna get any real fun out of playing YIIK is if it’s with some friends nearby to mock it with you.
 
Yeah, the only way you’re gonna get any real fun out of playing YIIK is if it’s with some friends nearby to mock it with you.
As somebody who played it with friends over the span of its release, the game is a fucking slog to get through in almost every aspect, even making jokes along the way. The movement is slow enough (until you get the skateboard which takes you in one direction lol) that everything takes for fucking ever to get anywhere. The combat is so tedious and boring that there are fights that took half a fucking hour not because of difficulty, but because of the overly large amount of shit that has to be done in a single turn (4 slow minigames that take 10+ seconds each at a minimum, the attack animations which take about 5 seconds on average, the enemy's attack animations, the stupid ass dodge minigames for each fucking party member) which adds up and kills the flow for fights. It almost punishes you for using anything other than the basic attack due to the sheer amount of time wasted for each spell. The worst example of this is the dialogue though. The game thinks its a verbose book instead of an RPG and puts too much detail on things that don't matter and too little on things that do. The only saving grace is how graceless and hilariously bad the plot and dialogue is as a whole. It really is the most joyless game to go through, even with friends. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, there really isn't anything anybody can say about YIIK that hasn't been said before.
 
Honestly, I think one of the biggest fuckups with the game overall is how the game handles Rory. They make the big deal about how you can cause Rory to commit suicide(literally the only character with a “choose your response” to them), but almost every single story beat regarding him and his shot life is heavily offset by a “lol so random joke”.

You get his confession about how his sister killed hersefl and he thinks it’s his fault, seeing essentially a “what if” Soul Survivor version of himself and finding out just how fucked up he is…which immediately leads into a random boss fight with a golden alpacha.

You go back to see Rory after the events of the previous chapter, both setting the stage for what’s supposed to be Alex trying to be a better person and knowing more about the life Rory leads….and then he has a giant leg for a mom.

Rory asks to speak with you, and how you respond and what plays out is a major factor in if he mills himself or not, where he essentially pours his heart out to Alex and admits he’s lost on life and doesn’t know what to do, and Alex finally managing to show some real humanity and comfort the guy…which ends with a joke scene option of “Kiss Rory”.

And then if he does survive, you get him saying “lol suicide is not cool, I would never do that” as some kind of wink wink nudge nudge moment.

It’s just really odd to make your most tragic character also the one with the most random jokes and gags attached to him.

Doesn’t help that it looks like his art looks like he was originally wearing a hoodie and they just changed it to his hair.
 
As somebody who played it with friends over the span of its release, the game is a fucking slog to get through in almost every aspect, even making jokes along the way. The movement is slow enough (until you get the skateboard which takes you in one direction lol) that everything takes for fucking ever to get anywhere. The combat is so tedious and boring that there are fights that took half a fucking hour not because of difficulty, but because of the overly large amount of shit that has to be done in a single turn (4 slow minigames that take 10+ seconds each at a minimum, the attack animations which take about 5 seconds on average, the enemy's attack animations, the stupid ass dodge minigames for each fucking party member) which adds up and kills the flow for fights. It almost punishes you for using anything other than the basic attack due to the sheer amount of time wasted for each spell. The worst example of this is the dialogue though. The game thinks its a verbose book instead of an RPG and puts too much detail on things that don't matter and too little on things that do. The only saving grace is how graceless and hilariously bad the plot and dialogue is as a whole. It really is the most joyless game to go through, even with friends. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, there really isn't anything anybody can say about YIIK that hasn't been said before.

You're right on the combat and the dialogue being a slog, and I think bringing them up together shows another contradiction in YiiK itself; Now I've only seen the Oney plays version, which was after the release and when the devs were already tweaking things, but they tried to speed up the combat by having the in combat dialogue boxed go so fast they can't be read.
This says a couple things to me, and I could just be reading too far into this but first off by doing this, you're telling your audience none of that is important (same with the "turn off monolouges" option) so why have them at all? Your battles already take 8 years to load, so why not speed things up by optimizing them and trimming the fat completely rather than keep the broken, bloated system and insult your players intelligence by fast forwarding all your flavour text?

There's really only two reasons to make something "optional" in your game; accessibility and playstyle. Accessibility would be like, being able to speed up or slow down how quickly text appears in dialogue boxes, or having subtitles on or off. Play style would be things like easy mode, or having side quests be optional (the idea there being "hey if you want to hang out in our world with these characters more and enjoy exploring, here ya go" or "Do you enjoy an extra challenge? Here's a big baddie to test your skills but you more chill players can move on"). What shouldn't be optional are large swathes of your protagonists dialogue. If that is something considered optional than you're saying it adds nothing to the game (same message as the flavour text in combat) and if entire chunks of your story add nothing to your game by your own admission than you should not have them in there in the first place.

Both in the story and the guts of the game itself nothing is optimized, everything is just a bloated mess and I think it says a lot that the game devs aren't just cutting it all out but instead trying to work around it. I'm torn though, I don't know if it's because they just know nothing about writing and making games or if they're so far up their own ass that they won't allow any of their masterpiece to be discarded, but in a spiteful little "fuck you" to their detractors they go "Oh combat is too slow? Well lets speed it up. Is that better, you Neanderthals? now no one gets to have fun!" and "Oh you don't want to enjoy our deep, emotional story rife with monolouges? Here, you can turn them off for your wittle baby brain. The story won't make sense but you weren't going to make sense of it anyway."

I might be projecting some of the writers knee-jerk defensiveness on to the whole process there though.


Honestly, I think one of the biggest fuckups with the game overall is how the game handles Rory. They make the big deal about how you can cause Rory to commit suicide(literally the only character with a “choose your response” to them), but almost every single story beat regarding him and his shot life is heavily offset by a “lol so random joke”.

You get his confession about how his sister killed hersefl and he thinks it’s his fault, seeing essentially a “what if” Soul Survivor version of himself and finding out just how fucked up he is…which immediately leads into a random boss fight with a golden alpacha.

You go back to see Rory after the events of the previous chapter, both setting the stage for what’s supposed to be Alex trying to be a better person and knowing more about the life Rory leads….and then he has a giant leg for a mom.

Rory asks to speak with you, and how you respond and what plays out is a major factor in if he mills himself or not, where he essentially pours his heart out to Alex and admits he’s lost on life and doesn’t know what to do, and Alex finally managing to show some real humanity and comfort the guy…which ends with a joke scene option of “Kiss Rory”.

And then if he does survive, you get him saying “lol suicide is not cool, I would never do that” as some kind of wink wink nudge nudge moment.

It’s just really odd to make your most tragic character also the one with the most random jokes and gags attached to him.

Doesn’t help that it looks like his art looks like he was originally wearing a hoodie and they just changed it to his hair.

That's actually a really good point, I was too distracted by the tonal shifts themselves to realize they were all kind of attached to one character's plot like that.
It's also not something I can really even take a guess at, to be honest. All the source material for YiiK is stuff that is very character centric and yet the writer of YiiK could not give less of a shit about any of his except God-King Alex and his haram of Elisa Lams. Like your example with Rory, or how Michael just kind of becomes a mute meat puppet that may as well be carted around in a wagon. Claudio and Chandra could be interesting but if memory serves they're never used to any great effect; they don't have their own subplot, they never save the day and aside from Claudio pointing them towards the LP, they don't even have an effect on the main story.

To get a bit snobby about this shit again, let's look at something like Lord of the Rings, where you have a full RPG party's worth of character running around at once, some which disappear for extended periods of time but they're still all absolutely vital to the good guys winning in the end.
A quick example would be Merry and Pippin who, at a glance, seem like the easiest of the crew to dismiss (they're not a unique race (being 2/4 hobbits rather than, say the sole dwarf or elf) so they're not going to have any hidden knowledge or skills that Frodo or Sam don't also possess, they're not connected to any factions, they're not particularly skilled and if anything come off as a liability) but as the story progresses their actions have bigger and bigger effects; from getting the ents to battle with them, to Merry helping take down the Nazgul leader to even leading an entire hobbit rebellion.
There's more, obviously those books and movies are overflowing with content, but my point is that guys were not just there to talk about food the way Claudio talks about anime; they have roles and reasons that impact the entire outcome of not only wars but the fate of their entire world. That's big stuff!


Meanwhile nothing Michael does solves the over-arching mystery of what happened to Sammy Semi Park Pak, he just tags along to the location Alex Yiik already found. Nothing Rory does gets them closer to solving the mystery, his whole segment just serves as an info dump. Nothing Claudio does progresses the plot or digs up new clues; he isn't even the one to tell Alex about the record or anything, he just points them in the direction to find it (and the whole record arc doesn't progress the Sammy Lam mystery either) and Chandra just holahoops. I don't think she even gives a reason why she's tagging along.

I hate to circle back around to my own previous posts but its another example I think of the writer only understanding these sources (hell, I'm actually willing to say "all media" at this point) on the shallowest level. He knows a story needs characters but treats them as props to pull out whenever he needs to fill time or to further highlight something about Alex, who is clearly the only "character" he actually cares about.

All this being a big, dumb way of me saying that I think you've made a really interesting observation about his use of Rory, and the only reason I can think for it is that Rory is just an in-game item to try and add emotional depth to a shallow experience and the writer heard the Joss Whedon quote "Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then for the love of God, tell a joke." and didn't know how to use it effectively.
 
I came across this thread randomly, read about how both of their games are raging dumpster fires, and just sorta dismissed it. However, after reading the discussion an commentary here, and finding out that the two brothers are actually still trying to put said dumpster fire out (in their own way...) I'm genuinely intrigued. Now I am interested to see this version 1.V, and if Chromophore - Two Brothers DC ever gets done.

The one thing I found most legitimately intriguing in the OP for this thread was the very last frame for the trailer of Chromophore:

Untitled - Copy.png

The motif on that shield is an accurate depiction of the organic molecule phenolphthalein in its basic conformation. The one under the name Chromophore is another legit organic molecule, conjugate beta-carotene. I think this has to be the first time I've ever seen an accurate depictions of organic molecules in a video game. For that alone I give them credit.
 
I saw a text Let’s Play of Two Brothers somewhere. The plot was very….well, let’s just say the pretentiousness carried over.
 
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