# Is the United States the most free country?



## Slap47 (May 26, 2019)

*+* 1st amendment guarantees free expression and there isn't really many federal exceptions
*+* The USA is the world superpower and tells international organizations that want censorship to fuck off
*+*  2nd amendment lets people own guns
+ Americans have the right to organize in large groups

*+/-* Americans have freedom of religion but tax exemption also allows the government to define religion.

- Felonies deprive people of basically of their rights and felonies are handed out like candy
- Americans right to organize is nullified by required paperwork
*-* Zero tolerance policies allow teachers to call in the police to arrest 7 year old "super predators" for chewing gum
*- *CPS does insane shit like arrest parents for letting their kid play basketball in the backyard 
*-* Several US States ban Americans from boycotting Israel and even criticizing Israel
*- *Most US States lack anti-SLAP legislation and don't offer decent free representation so the crazy and wealthy can use lawsuits as a bludgeon 
*- *The police are supplied with military surplus and are not held accountable
*-* The US has worse obscenity laws than even Europe due to Puritanism and California.
*-* Supreme court justices just makes up stuff based on their mood and that is how law is made. 
*-* Electoral college leads to government that doesn't represent the people
*-* Dogshit states like Arkansas have elections that are literally rigged and nobody cares 
-US Academia had developed a culture where deplatforming (sometimes through violence) is celebrated. 
-Home owner associations dot the country making peoples lives a living hell
- Americans elect judges for some reason and plea bargaining is used for most cases
- The government allows racism against specific groups but not others (Asians and whites)
- Wealth inequality and poor healthcare lead to poverty and poverty means less freedom. 
- PATRIOT Act and other legislation strip people of basic right to privacy
- Commerce Claus and other legislation means states rights are null. 
- Human Rights Commissions at the state level 
- Hate speech laws in some states 
- Corporations are ruled by a clique of progressives that hate freedom 
- Americans aren't allowed to own "scary" guns.

America's got some obvious plus points but some of these negatives are pretty bad. Northern Europe might have more rape but at least you can chill out and mind your own business and the Swiss have basic freedoms like gun rights without the police state. Canada has hate speech laws and human rights commissions but so does the USA at the state level so thats hardly a point. 

Dunno, Null had to flee to Russia to utilize his right to free expression. Sure you gotta be careful when it comes to criticizing Putin or liking analingus but you can say most of whatever you want.


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## byuu (May 26, 2019)

+ Doesn't have retarded laws against insults, blasphemy, etc.
+ Strong state rights
+ No retardedly high sales tax/VAT
- Spies more on its citizens than the Gestapo and Stasi put together
- Agencies force their private companies to install backdoors for them
- Agencies can order a private entity to hand over their data in secret without an actual court involved
- Deeply entrenched two party system (If I had to choose between our big center-right and center-left party I'd kill myself instead)


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## Not an_ime g_irl (May 26, 2019)

Africa is has a lot of freedom if that's your thing, it's basically anarchy in some places you can do whatever you want just like everyone else.
Too much freedom compromises safety, too much safety compromises freedom.


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## RetardedCat (May 26, 2019)

+ I can say nigger
- I'm not allowed to own a nuclear submarine or an ICBM.


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## Clop (May 26, 2019)

Any nation with a tobacco tax can eat my ass, 0/10 Freedom Eagles.


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## Takodachi (May 26, 2019)

Are you allowed to dress as Hitler, stand outside a synagogue and recite the 14 words without being thrown in jail for hate speech?
No? Then you arent as free as you think you are.

But hey, at least you arent yuropoo or require a loicense to wank.


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## RG 448 (May 26, 2019)

Before I retired I couldn’t get naked for free without my employer docking my pay for misuse of company property so you tell me.


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## MG 620 (May 26, 2019)

Somalia is the more free. Somalia doesn't even a working government, or anything for that matter.


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## TerribleIdeas™ (May 26, 2019)

Northern Mexico is pretty free, but less free than anarchic African states, because the cartels definitely impose rules, in their territories.


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## Gustav Schuchardt (May 26, 2019)

It's a shitload better off than the UK, EU countries, Canada etc. Though you need to stay out of the liberal, coastal states.


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## Terminus Est (May 26, 2019)

If there is taxes and regulations then no. America is then not free at all.


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## Mender Bug (May 26, 2019)

It honestly depends on the state. Judging the US as a whole is a bit like judging Europe as a whole. Although I'll agree that the federal government is pretty crap.


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## Slap47 (May 26, 2019)

Promestein said:


> Are you allowed to dress as Hitler, stand outside a synagogue and recite the 14 words without being thrown in jail for hate speech?
> No? Then you arent as free as you think you are.
> 
> But hey, at least you arent yuropoo or require a loicense to wank.



No, obscenity laws and "fighting words" doctrine, etc.


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## Marco Fucko (May 26, 2019)

Promestein said:


> Are you allowed to dress as Hitler, stand outside a synagogue and recite the 14 words without being thrown in jail for hate speech?
> No? Then you arent as free as you think you are.
> 
> But hey, at least you arent yuropoo or require a loicense to wank.



Someone could probably theoretically do that. Virginia let Charlottesville happen and that lasted overnight, and the KKK is also protected under free speech.


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## Black Waltz (May 26, 2019)

I can own a glock and say the n-word like some of my neighbors, so I would say this country is pretty free


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## The Pink Panther (May 26, 2019)

Freedom is based on perception and your own definition of what it means to be free.

Any government limits certain freedoms.


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## Sprig of Parsley (May 26, 2019)

Most free? Depends on what exact part of the freedom package, and what exact state and city you're in to some extent.  As an overall, generalized measure I would guess probably not because I'm sure there are other governments out there that are more hands-off (but they might not have certain things codified like we do, so there's that to consider)


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## Slap47 (May 26, 2019)

garakfan69 said:


> + Doesn't have exceptional laws against insults, blasphemy, etc.
> + Strong state rights
> + No retardedly high sales tax/VAT
> - Spies more on its citizens than the Gestapo and Stasi put together
> ...



- Several US States have blasphemy laws
- Commerce claus and other federal powers undermine state rights, several states are more than 50% federal land
- Several US States have higher taxes than European countries and US cities have incredibly high taxes


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## Rand /pol/ (May 26, 2019)

It's incredibly hard to organize or run a union in the US compared to some parts of the world, which is the "least free" part of the country in my opinion. That, and the fact the super-wealthy and large corporations are taxed far, far below what they should be.


garakfan69 said:


> + Strong state rights





Apoth42 said:


> - Commerce claus and other federal powers undermine state rights, several states are more than 50% federal land


State's rights are overrated and the amount of de-centralization can make large infastructure projects in the current year downright impossible.


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## Slap47 (May 26, 2019)

Ron /pol/ said:


> It's incredibly hard to organize or run a union in the US compared to some parts of the world, which is the "least free" part of the country in my opinion. That, and the fact the super-wealthy and large corporations are taxed far, far below what they should be.
> 
> 
> State's rights are overrated and the amount of de-centralization can make large infastructure projects in the current year downright impossible.



States rights increase accountability and local interest groups having a say which means less displaced  people from major projects and better quality things like dams.


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## ICametoLurk (May 26, 2019)

Apoth42 said:


> States rights increase accountability and local interest groups having a say which means less displaced  people from major projects and better quality things like dams.


States should be their own nations.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (May 26, 2019)

Interesting topic.

In general? Probably. Let's say you have roughly four types of freedom: Economic, Political, Lifestyle, and Social. These could be summarize this way:

Economic: The freedom to practice unregulated capitalsm
Political: The freedom to criticize public figures and politic
Lifestyle: Freedom from a nanny state; you can buy big sodas and let your child climb trees
Social: Freedom from societal convention. You can stick things in your butt if you want.

The US is one of few countries that really secures Political freedom, and it has high marks in all other four.

Now, European countries tend to have more Social Freedom, and there's a handful of small states (like Switzerland and Singapore) that have higher Economic Freedom. However, they suffer in other categories, mostly Economic/Lifestyle/Political for Europeans (Europe is a shithole) and Political for Asians.

One thing that you can't rely on anymore is the Freedom Index, though. As far as I'm aware, it doesn't really accurately account for Current Year. If you can get fined for your pug saluting or get threatened by cops for saying trannies are gay, you are not in a free country.



Ron /pol/ said:


> It's incredibly hard to organize or run a union in the US compared to some parts of the world, which is the "least free" part of the country in my opinion. That, and the fact the super-wealthy and large corporations are taxed far, far below what they should be.
> 
> 
> State's rights are overrated and the amount of de-centralization can make large infastructure projects in the current year downright impossible.



Corporations not being taxed much has nothing to do with freedom, and nothing's stopping people from making unions, faggot.


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## Red Hood (May 26, 2019)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> Interesting topic.
> 
> In general? Probably. Let's say you have roughly four types of freedom: Economic, Political, Lifestyle, and Social. These could be summarize this way:
> 
> ...


Breaking it down into different facets of freedom is probably the best way to look at it. We're gonna be better in some ways, worse in others.

And obviously we need to find a way to factor out the rogue states like People's Republic of Cali.


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## Lemmingwise (May 26, 2019)

Apoth42 said:


> the Swiss have basic freedoms like gun rights without the police state.



No, the swiss have begun to walk back on this. The EU put pressure on Switzerland and threatened removal from Schengen zone if they did not tighten their gun laws, and they agreed.

If the US wasn't such a bitch to Israel, I would have moved there for sure. But states putting in laws equating criticism of israel with antisemitism? Criticizing dual loyalty of dual nationality citizens as antisemitism? Criticizing aipac and other pro-israel lobbies as antisemitism?

No thanks. I recognize the value of the US and it is better in a number of ways than my country, but y'all are no less born in chains and debt, with an illusory freedom.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (May 26, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> No, the swiss have begun to walk back on this. The EU put pressure on Switzerland and threatened removal from Schengen zone if they did not tighten their gun laws, and they agreed.
> 
> If the US wasn't such a bitch to Israel, I would have moved there for sure. But states putting in laws equating criticism of israel with antisemitism? Criticizing dual loyalty of dual nationality citizens as antisemitism? Criticizing aipac and other pro-israel lobbies as antisemitism?
> 
> No thanks. I recognize the value of the US and it is better in a number of ways than my country, but y'all are no less born in chains and debt, with an illusory freedom.



Israel isn't that good of a reason not to move here. It has very little impact on citizen's day-to-day lives (which is probably why it goes on). Those state laws are mostly directed towards which companies the government are allowed to contract with, not banning citizens from saying what they want, or private companies who aren't working with the government from boycotting.


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## Marissa Moira (May 26, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> No, the swiss have begun to walk back on this. The EU put pressure on Switzerland and threatened removal from Schengen zone if they did not tighten their gun laws, and they agreed.
> 
> If the US wasn't such a bitch to Israel, I would have moved there for sure. But states putting in laws equating criticism of israel with antisemitism? Criticizing dual loyalty of dual nationality citizens as antisemitism? Criticizing aipac and other pro-israel lobbies as antisemitism?
> 
> No thanks. I recognize the value of the US and it is better in a number of ways than my country, but y'all are no less born in chains and debt, with an illusory freedom.


Are you that retarded in thinking a law like that can be enforced? There are thousands of fucking laws on the books that get made and ignored.

This is america, laws are for faggots.


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## ConfederateIrishman (May 26, 2019)

No, America is too big and relevant to be the most free country. My bet is the most free country is some tiny microstate that no one has heard about much that flys under the radar mostly


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## Slap47 (May 26, 2019)

Marissa Moira said:


> Are you that exceptional in thinking a law like that can be enforced? There are thousands of fucking laws on the books that get made and ignored.
> 
> This is america, laws are for faggots.



Plenty of Americans have been punished for blasphemy and hate speech so its hard to say.


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## Libtard-Wrecking Krogoth (May 26, 2019)

tocqueville was right


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## Marissa Moira (May 26, 2019)

ConfederateIrishman said:


> No, America is too big and relevant to be the most free country. My bet is the most free country is some tiny microstate that no one has heard about much that flys under the radar mostly


So Carbombya it is then.


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## CheezzyMach (May 26, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> No, the swiss have begun to walk back on this. The EU put pressure on Switzerland and threatened removal from Schengen zone if they did not tighten their gun laws, and they agreed.
> 
> If the US wasn't such a bitch to Israel, I would have moved there for sure. *But states putting in laws equating criticism of israel with antisemitism? Criticizing dual loyalty of dual nationality citizens as antisemitism? Criticizing aipac and other pro-israel lobbies as antisemitism?*
> 
> No thanks. I recognize the value of the US and it is better in a number of ways than my country, but y'all are no less born in chains and debt, with an illusory freedom.


You do realize the Supreme Court just bitch slapped Texas down for pulling that stunt right?

Yes individual States will pass exceptional laws sometimes but our Supreme Court has a very good track record of striking down egregious horseshit that violates the Constitution even if it occasionally takes a while.


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## Rand /pol/ (May 26, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> States should be their own nations.


t. Russian/Chink shill
Seriously though most of the states with people advocating balkanization are total shitholes over-reliant on the Federal government for anything.


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## shartshooter (May 26, 2019)

Ron /pol/ said:


> Seriously though most of the states with people advocating balkanization are total shitholes over-reliant on the Federal government for anything.


t. Actual unemployed welfare queen

Though it is funny when liberals cite the Wall Street and big business revenue of their states because most of those people hate you.


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## Rand /pol/ (May 27, 2019)

shartshooter said:


> t. Actual unemployed welfare queen


Jokes on you I got a part time job now.


shartshooter said:


> Though it is funny when liberals cite the Wall Street and big business revenue of their states because most of those people hate you.


Don't act like the south wouldn't be in deep shit without the Federal government.


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## The Estatist (May 27, 2019)

In their defense, the South has plenty of Niggers and Beaners. The Whites might be lower quality too.

Anyway, until Amerifats shopkeepers are allowed to openly bar undesirables like Kunta Kinte from shops and towns then no you don't get to yap about muh freedumb. How can you be proud of your country enforcing non-segregation (to the point of warring on its populace seeing as how White America by large accepted segregation and see didn't non-Whites as their kin) enough that it impacts towns and business?


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## ProgKing of the North (May 27, 2019)

I find it amusing that a lot of people seem to equate freedom or lack there of  with how racist you can get away with being.


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## Beautiful Border (May 27, 2019)

It would depend on what your priorities are. If your view of freedom is being able to own as many guns as you want and drive a big gas-guzzling SUV, then the US is better. If your view of freedom is not having to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills and not being forced to own a car to get to places because there is decent public transport infrastructure, then Europe and Japan are better.

It's honestly really odd when I see Americans try to shit-talk Europe, because none of the things they bring up have ever had any bearing on my life. Yeah, I'd be arrested and fined if I racially abused someone in the street.... uh, okay? Can't say I was planning to do that anytime soon.


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## I Love Beef (May 27, 2019)

To a fellow anime nerd:









						Mike Diana - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




This is kind of why I am usually afraid of making art and comics, and this is one of the subtle reasons why the Comics Crash of 1996 happened.

Granted though, today while I'll be mobbed by SJWs and REEEEEEEE Whores, and probably make a lolcow out of myself in the process of defending myself, art and the USA are like orange juice and milk, respectively: the citric acid curdles the basey milk, and while it's safe to drink or mix into cake after the chemical process, downing it immediately gives you the shits for days on end. TL;DR, art is only capable after causing much asshurt to Americans who can't process objections and challenges to their worldviews, and they'll still hate you for making it and art just for existing.



ICametoLurk said:


> States should be their own nations.



Wasn't this how the game Biofreaks got started? As soon as the States divided themselves into 50 nations, everything went to hell. Biological experimentation and augmentation, endless wars on former American soil....


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## Red Hood (May 27, 2019)

That feel when you realize this is a lowkey sperg about why you don't like America thread


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## I Love Beef (May 27, 2019)

The Shadow said:


> That feel when you realize this is a lowkey sperg about why you don't like America thread



Heavens forbid when any nation in this world, let alone one of the most self proclaimed and developed nations in the world have their flaws. "lol suck up n deal with it faggot" ain't gonna cut it.


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## Otterly (May 27, 2019)

Yes the USA is probably the freest civilised place. There are freer places but do you really want to live near Mogadishu? Probably not. I suppose it’s a balancing act between enough regulation to allow humans to live at certain densities and the minimum regulation needed to ensure freedoms. V isolated areas within civilised counties are probably the freest in that context, simply because you have more space. 

The big ones though - speech, thought, belief  etc, you have. And from those all others spring. I’m a native of the UK and Sweden and both those are infested with SJWs who will prosecute you for wrong think soon as blink. It feels like some weird orwellian nightmare right now. I’ve been threatened for very mildly pointing out that gender self ID is incompatible with the equality act (actually threatened, with violence and reporting to my employer  not ‘disagreed with on Twitter.’) 
   The way that reduction in freedom to speak been panning out over the last 5-10 years has made me pretty sad, and envious of your Constitution.


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## Y2K Baby (May 27, 2019)

What is the alternative, stupid


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## I Love Beef (May 27, 2019)

Y2KKK Baby said:


> What is the alternative, stupid



Then again, maybe I'm just not exercising my basic rights. Like basic rights to freedom of speech, and when Johnny Law comes knocking at my doors for "obscenity", a right to a lawyer and to mercilessly dissect the legal bullshit in a court of law with the amount of money I'll make. Then if the Morality In Media Squad and the SJW Crew decide to visit and openly harass me, I'll exercise my right to waive them off with open firepower and a claim for self defense.

Of course, that's because I know how I live.

I can't exactly say for everyone else.

I can also give the benefit of the doubt that I have the right to complain and be countered and counter back in this place, and that I can fight for my rights verbally and expressively. Maybe I'm just not fighting hard enough. The right to complain about how bullshit conditions are isn't wrong.


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## Red Hood (May 27, 2019)

I Love Beef said:


> Heavens forbid when any nation in this world, let alone one of the most self proclaimed and developed nations in the world have their flaws. "lol suck up n deal with it faggot" ain't gonna cut it.


It's more to me that OP phrased and titled it in a really milquetoast way is what i'm saying.


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## I Love Beef (May 27, 2019)

The Shadow said:


> It's more to me that OP phrased and titled it in a really milquetoast way is what i'm saying.





Apoth42 said:


> The government allows racism against specific groups but not others (Asians and whites)



Honestly The Shadow you're right. This is bullshit. I've seen more open displays of racist harassment on Asians than is ever documented, and that's not counting all of the enclaves of forums outside of Kiwifarms and their neckbeard nerds typing away at shit. You can pretty much get away with it. I know you can't touch white people. And progressives that hate freedom up in corporations? What the fuck kind of alternate timeline did I just walk into? Fuck the Clown Universe shit, I'm living in The Bizzaro Simpsons as far as I'm concerned.


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## Y2K Baby (May 27, 2019)

I Love Beef said:


> Then again, maybe I'm just not exercising my basic rights. Like basic rights to freedom of speech, and when Johnny Law comes knocking at my doors for "obscenity", a right to a lawyer and to mercilessly dissect the legal bullshit in a court of law with the amount of money I'll make. Then if the Morality In Media Squad and the SJW Crew decide to visit and openly harass me, I'll exercise my right to waive them off with open firepower and a claim for self defense.
> 
> Of course, that's because I know how I live.
> 
> ...


Who are you talking to


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## Red Hood (May 27, 2019)

I Love Beef said:


> Honestly The Shadow you're right. This is bullshit. I've seen more open displays of racist harassment on Asians than is ever documented, and that's not counting all of the enclaves of forums outside of Kiwifarms and their neckbeard nerds typing away at shit. You can pretty much get away with it. I know you can't touch white people. And progressives that hate freedom up in corporations? What the fuck kind of alternate timeline did I just walk into? Fuck the Clown Universe shit, I'm living in The Bizzaro Simpsons as far as I'm concerned.


lol calm down


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## Fek (May 27, 2019)

Short version:

Freest in an absolute sense? Not even remotely close.

Best compromise on individual liberty, technological advancement, financial opportunity, and relative safety? Probably.


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## CheezzyMach (May 28, 2019)

Otterly said:


> Yes the USA is probably the freest civilised place. There are freer places but do you really want to live near Mogadishu? Probably not. I suppose it’s a balancing act between enough regulation to allow humans to live at certain densities and the minimum regulation needed to ensure freedoms. V isolated areas within civilised counties are probably the freest in that context, simply because you have more space.
> 
> The big ones though - speech, thought, belief  etc, you have. And from those all others spring. I’m a native of the UK and Sweden and both those are infested with SJWs who will prosecute you for wrong think soon as blink. It feels like some weird orwellian nightmare right now. I’ve been threatened for very mildly pointing out that gender self ID is incompatible with the equality act (actually threatened, with violence and reporting to my employer  not ‘disagreed with on Twitter.’)
> The way that reduction in freedom to speak been panning out over the last 5-10 years has made me pretty sad, and envious of your Constitution.


I apologize if I offend but as an American the Commonwealth's* or atleast Canada's * farce of a Bill of Rights/Constitution pisses me the fuck off. Freedom of Speech should never be considered a "privilege".


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## Otterly (May 28, 2019)

CheezzyMach said:


> I apologize if I offend but as an American the Commonwealth's* or atleast Canada's * farce of a Bill of Rights/Constitution pisses me the fuck off. Freedom of Speech should never be considered a "privilege".



No offence whatsoever taken - you are absolutely right. Almost all freedoms spring from freedom of thought, speech and belief. Europe is seeing what happens when those freedoms don’t exist and it isn’t pretty. It’s worth saying that until recently we had far more freedom even under the same laws because the social climate was freer. So look at comedy for example. You simply could not make Life Of Brian, or Brass Eye now. 

  The aggressive social policing of thought and speech is new, and being done by fellow citizens. And they find that the state backs them - the laws have always been there, some new ones on hate speech and malicious comms have made it worse, because hate speech is couched in terms of perception of offence and malicious comms can be anything. That’s why we are seeing people arrested for saying humans can’t change sex, or that it might not be a great idea to trans kids. It’s quite frightening. 

I have said for a few years now that we are headed towards somewhere very dark, socially over here.


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## CheezzyMach (May 28, 2019)

Otterly said:


> No offence whatsoever taken - you are absolutely right. Almost all freedoms spring from freedom of thought, speech and belief. Europe is seeing what happens when those freedoms don’t exist and it isn’t pretty. It’s worth saying that until recently we had far more freedom even under the same laws because the social climate was freer. So look at comedy for example. You simply could not make Life Of Brian, or Brass Eye now.
> 
> The aggressive social policing of thought and speech is new, and being done by fellow citizens. And they find that the state backs them - the laws have always been there, some new ones on hate speech and malicious comms have made it worse, because hate speech is couched in terms of perception of offence and malicious comms can be anything. That’s why we are seeing people arrested for saying humans can’t change sex, or that it might not be a great idea to trans kids. It’s quite frightening.
> 
> I have said for a few years now that we are headed towards somewhere very dark, socially over here.


Not much consolation but I'm pretty damn sure the people applauding this shit are going to pay when a political party they don't like comes into power and turns it on them.

As our resident nutjobs try to destroy the country in Burger Land I keep getting amazed at how our Founding Fathers managed to make the Constitution relatively idiot proof.


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## The Estatist (May 28, 2019)

Your Founding Fathers waged war on uppity debtors and in Lincoln's day his posse waged one over states quitting the Union so they could still have Niggers as slaves.

Anyway, you will never find a country better run than the likes of Singapore and Dubai.


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## ProgKing of the North (May 28, 2019)

The Estatist said:


> Your Founding Fathers waged war on uppity debtors and in Lincoln's day his posse waged one over states quitting the Union so they could still have Niggers as slaves.
> 
> Anyway, you will never find a country better run than the likes of Singapore and Dubai.


So you’re willing to give up freedom just so the races you have an irrational hatred towards don’t have freedom either?

Cause Singapore and especially Dubai are both shit for freedom


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## The Estatist (May 28, 2019)

There is plenty you can do in both. You not being allowed to chimpout and sell opioids doesn't change that.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (May 31, 2019)

The Estatist said:


> Your Founding Fathers waged war on uppity debtors and in Lincoln's day his posse waged one over states quitting the Union so they could still have Niggers as slaves.
> 
> Anyway, you will never find a country better run than the likes of Singapore and Dubai.


What's your feelings on the Tienamen square massacre though? Also, doesn't the leader of china look just like winnie the pooh? How extra free are you feeling now that wikipedia is banned?


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## AF 802 (Jun 1, 2019)

Not as a puppet nation of Israel.


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