# 9/11 conspiracy, your thoughts?



## Picklepower (Aug 13, 2013)

If discussing conspiracy theories is against the rules, I apologize, and I don't want a flame war. My question is, what are your thoughts on 9/11, do you think there was any government foul play, and if so why?

Me, I lean towards believing it wasn't a false flag. I went through a conspiracy phase myself.


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## Globe (Aug 13, 2013)

No. Crazy Jihadists flew planes into the North and South towers of the WTC and the debris that flew off the north tower caused building 7 to catch fire and go down as well. End of story. No demolitions, no shadow government CIA-affiliated cover-ups, no _nothing_. The US Government does plenty of shady stuff, be it starting internationally illegal wars, funding oppressive military juntas or what have you, but it has very little to gain from killing thousands of its own citizens.


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## Hyperion (Aug 13, 2013)

I think the endless commercialization of 9/11 is a conspiracy.


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## The Hunter (Aug 13, 2013)

Here's the REAL conspiracy!

[youtube]28T1ILTjolg[/youtube]


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## CatParty (Aug 13, 2013)

Aliens


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## Picklepower (Aug 13, 2013)

I started thinking about this subject again cuz in a podcast I listen to, one of the hosts kinda out of nowhere during his rant, said he believes 9/11 was a false flag and that Osama was not killed by Seal Team 6. This brought down the hosts credibility in my mind, well that and the fact that he clearly wrote the only good Imdb review for his own horror movie.


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## Trombonista (Aug 13, 2013)

I'll let Maddox explain my thoughts on 9/11 conspiracies.


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## Picklepower (Aug 13, 2013)

I love that ^ lol


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## Some JERK (Aug 13, 2013)

The theory that requires the least amount of assumptions is that violently militant people who hate western culture and have a long history of dramatic and destructive violence (including the attempted destruction of the very same target only years earlier) hijacked and flew planes full of people into the largest and most public targets available.

I'm not saying that a false flag is impossible, but it's pretty unlikely.


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## Male (Aug 13, 2013)

The 9/11 conspiracy is a goverment conspiracy


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## random_pickle (Aug 16, 2013)

I hate the 9/11 conspiracy nutjobs so much. It feels so insulting to the people that died that day. It pisses me off even more how they call themselves "truthers".

There's nothing funnier than watching one of them get their ass handed to them. For example:

[youtube]jVV9ZByg2M8[/youtube]


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## Hyperion (Aug 16, 2013)

It's fairly obvious that Bush and co knew it was coming and let it happen.


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## TastyWoodenBadge (Aug 16, 2013)

CatParty said:
			
		

> Aliens



This came to mind almost instantly


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## cypocraphy (Aug 16, 2013)

Let's fake a terrorist attack by flying planes into buildings, but blow up the buildings anyway as soon as the planes hit. Then let's blow up WTC7 just for the hell of it.   

When the most powerful and wealthiest government in the world plans a super, top-secret, fake terrorist attack...they sure do leave a lot clues behind.


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## Picklepower (Aug 16, 2013)

bungholio said:
			
		

> Let's fake a terrorist attack by flying planes into buildings, but blow up the buildings anyway as soon as the planes hit. Then let's blow up WTC7 just for the hell of it.
> 
> When the most powerful and wealthiest government in the world plans a super, top-secret, fake terrorist attack...they sure do leave a lot clues behind.



Yeah, I was like, "Why would they blow up building 7 ?"


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## Caddchef (Aug 16, 2013)

The real conspiracy about the wtc attacks were that the buildings themselves weren't built to spec and corners were cut in construction and materials for no reason other than save a little cash.


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## BT 075 (Aug 16, 2013)

For a time I believed in it. I was fifteen and anti-American sentiments were hip. Uncle Sam just wasn't our man. But I realized deep down that it was too far fetched. CIA, meh. Mossad? Fat chance. I remember how Osama never expected the towers to go down, apparantly. 9\11 was a lucky shot for al-Qaida, one they never managed to outdo. And I do genuinely believe they did it. None of the conspiracy-theories I've heard so far have sounded satisfactory, or even remotely believable. It's fun I guess blaming things on "da evil Murricans" but you'd just be lying to yourself to believe Americans blew up the Twin Towers. 

One could argue however that in funding the Taliban and Osama in Afghanistan fighting the Soviets, America indirectly funded the people who later turned their backs on them. Obama is doing the same thing in Syria now funding Al-Qaida backed rebels. I can see history repeating itself in the decades to come.


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## Judge Holden (Aug 16, 2013)

I have heard from reputable sources that individuals of a Semitic extraction may be eminently culpable for the events on September the eleventh


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## Blue Max (Aug 17, 2013)

Picklepower said:
			
		

> If discussing conspiracy theories is against the rules, I apologize, and I don't want a flame war. My question is, what are your thoughts on 9/11, do you think there was any government foul play, and if so why?
> 
> Me, I lean towards believing it wasn't a false flag. I went through a conspiracy phase myself.



There is was very real, very true and honest conspiracy regarding 9-11:
That of the Competency of George W. Bush and his government.

This is why he tried prevent the 9-11 commission in the first place, before reversing himself.
He tried to find links between Iraq and 9-11.
He didn't wind up taking out Bin Laden either (thank you Obama)
Torture rules, really?
Rebuilding Afghanistan...how is it possible that we're still there and remarkably little has been done?

This is a great, across the board conspiracy.  I think we all know the story is blown wide open now, but after 9-11, George W. had to BE in charge.  He had to REACT to Al-Qaeda, and he did so in moronic ways that didn't improve US security at all.  Now, 10+ years afterward, we can say he didn't have any idea what he was doing and was totally over his head, but we didn't know that then.

That's the conspiracy.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Aug 17, 2013)

Brother, just know that it was NOT the Hulkster, despite what Bobby "The Brain" Heenan claims. He paid The Genius to photoshop this image, man


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## Hasharin (Aug 22, 2013)

It's more likely that U.S. government started all that conspiracy theory shit in order to appear more powerful than it really is.


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## CatParty (Aug 22, 2013)

conspiracy theories are stupid


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## TastyWoodenBadge (Aug 22, 2013)

CatParty said:
			
		

> conspiracy theories are stupid



I agree with this statement, and conspiracy theorists need to shut the hell up.


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## QI 541 (Aug 22, 2013)

Hulk Hogan said:
			
		

> Brother, just know that it was NOT the Hulkster, despite what Bobby "The Brain" Heenan claims. He paid The Genius to photoshop this image, man



I'm sooo going to hell for laughing at this.


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## Caddchef (Aug 23, 2013)

raymond said:
			
		

> Hulk Hogan said:
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I'll see you there buddy, the bottom right one got me.


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## Pikimon (Aug 23, 2013)

My boyfriend unfortunatly believes in them...and just like his religious beliefs Im not allowed to poke fun at them...at least not openly


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## Judge Holden (Aug 23, 2013)

Caddchef said:
			
		

> raymond said:
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and me, jesus christ  am in man love with the hulk


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## Pikonic (Aug 23, 2013)

Can't find a video clip so forgive me.

To quote South Park, "All the 9/11 conspiracy websites are run by the government, the 9/11 conspiracy… is a government conspiracy."


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## Bugaboo (Aug 24, 2013)

I thik 9/11 conspiracies are disrespectful to the people who died in the towers and in the aftermath of it all. I think we should all just agree that it happened and it was pretty bad.


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## Picklepower (Aug 24, 2013)

If this exists please show me, but I would be curious to see a survey of 9/11 conspiracy theory acceptance world wide. From what I've heard these conspiracies have some following in Asia, and well obviously the Middle East. I don't quite remember, but didn't a pretty well known Japanese politician say he thought it was government conspiracy?


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## Pikonic (Aug 25, 2013)

Picklepower said:
			
		

> If this exists please show me, but I would be curious to see a survey of 9/11 conspiracy theory acceptance world wide. From what I've heard these conspiracies have some following in Asia, and well obviously the Middle East. I don't quite remember, but didn't a pretty well known Japanese politician say he thought it was government conspiracy?


I got dragged to a Conspiricy Theroy Convention here in CT. It was a bunch of tin foil hats (figuratively) hissing whenever this guy brought up Bush (literally). The big argument was the whole steel melting argument. When we got a chance to privately speak to this guy, I mentioned the building could still collapse with jet fuel softening the steel at that temp and not melting it. He patted me on the head and told me to seek out the truth. I never felt so stupid in my life until I realized who I with.


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## Judge Holden (Aug 26, 2013)

To be honest, the recent epidemic of syria conspiracy theories (i.e. "theres NO WAY Assad has done anything wrong, its all the evil imperialistic capitalistic neo liberal west, or them damn dirty je..Israelis somehow doing the gas attacks") among the far left in the UK  make me pine for the days of 9/11 conspiracy theories because at least 9/11 conspiracy theorists pretended to have proof


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## The Dude (Sep 14, 2013)

The government couldn't even keep the fact that President Bubba got a blow job by a fat ugly intern in the oval office under wraps, so how does a False Flag op involving disappearing several air liners and the people on those airliners, and hundreds if not a few thousand government employees , including military personnel, killing thousands of their countrymen under wraps?


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## c-no (Sep 16, 2013)

Like some the people on this forum have said, I too find these 9/11 conspiracies to be completely stupid and disrespectful to those who died. The only good they brought was seeing it get mocked on South Park. I do wonder why these truthers believe these theories. Perhaps they believe in it because they hate Bush and the U.S. government or perhaps they just want attention and believe themselves to be special people who aren't "sheep" like the rest of the masses.


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## Holdek (Sep 21, 2013)

Blue Max said:
			
		

> Now, 10+ years afterward, we can say he didn't have any idea what he was doing and was totally over his head, but we didn't know that then.



I did.  Anyone paying attention to his presidential campaign could tell pretty quickly that he was   .  What we didn't realize was that 9-11 could happen and we would desperately need a non  president to steer the course.



			
				Pikimon said:
			
		

> My boyfriend unfortunatly believes in them...and just like his religious beliefs Im not allowed to poke fun at them...at least not openly



Why not?



			
				Picklepower said:
			
		

> If this exists please show me, but I would be curious to see a survey of 9/11 conspiracy theory acceptance world wide. From what I've heard these conspiracies have some following in Asia, and well obviously the Middle East. I don't quite remember, but didn't a pretty well known Japanese politician say he thought it was government conspiracy?



I saw some polls on it recently...it was pretty even across the board except for some unusual spikes.  The exception was the middle east where pluralities, and in a couple of cases majorities, think Israel did it.



			
				c-no said:
			
		

> Like some the people on this forum have said, I too find these 9/11 conspiracies to be completely stupid and disrespectful to those who died. The only good they brought was seeing it get mocked on South Park. I do wonder why these truthers believe these theories. Perhaps they believe in it because they hate Bush and the U.S. government or perhaps they just want attention and believe themselves to be special people who aren't "sheep" like the rest of the masses.



9-11 was unexpected and traumatic.  For many it becomes easier to live with if they can find easy "answers" that lie in the sophisticated machinations of a well understood conspiracy than it is to face the fact, and live with the resulting anxiety, that dudes with box cutters and a few flight lessons can kill thousands of people and fuck up the country you call home, in one shot.  If they know the "real truth" then it at least gives them some feeling of understanding, and thus control, about what is in reality an inherently chaotic and often indifferent world.


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## Some JERK (Sep 21, 2013)

Holdek said:
			
		

> 9-11 was unexpected and traumatic.  For many it becomes easier to live with if they can find easy "answers" that lie in the sophisticated machinations of a well understood conspiracy than it is to face the fact, and live with the resulting anxiety, that dudes with box cutters and a few flight lessons can kill thousands of people and fuck up the country you call home in one shot.  If they know the "real truth" then it at least gives them some feeling of understanding, and thus control, about what is in reality an inherently chaotic and often indifferent world.


I think that's it exactly. For a lot of people it's easier to believe that two massive buildings were intentionally demolished than it is for them to wrap their heads around the physics/weights involved or to understand just how _fragile_ those towering monstrosities truly can be, especially given that they may live or work in one.


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## Globe (Sep 21, 2013)

c-no said:
			
		

> I do wonder why these truthers believe these theories. Perhaps they believe in it because they hate Bush and the U.S. government or perhaps they just want attention and believe themselves to be special people who aren't "sheep" like the rest of the masses.


 I'm sure I'm going to rustle at least a few jimmies by saying this, but 9/11 truthers, and conspiracy theories in general, always struck me as being just another article of faith. I'm not trying to say the two are completely analogous and I don't doubt that there's such a thing as 150% genuine religious belief, but I know plenty of people who accept whatever religion they were raised on (mostly southern Baptism where I live) because they're _really_ desperate to believe in an almighty, all-powerful god that loves them and looks out for them, and they'll take the argument over evidence and interpretation of doctrine and all the other conundrums of religious belief with complete indifference because that _one_need is fulfilled. Like those folks, conspiracy theorists are really desperate to believe in an ultra-secret, global illuminati-orchestrated conspiracy that only _they_ are smart enough to understand. They're so desperate, in fact, that they'll gladly ignore anything that contradicts it.


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## Holdek (Sep 21, 2013)

I think it also gives people a sense of empowerment.  Like, most people can't get involved in the fight against Al Qaeda.  But if you're "spreading the truth" against a conspiratorial government you feel like it's an us vs. them battle that you can at least participate in on your own terms.  Also there's comradere with fellow "truthers" which increases that feeling.


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## Pine Tar (Sep 22, 2013)

Judge Holden said:
			
		

> To be honest, the recent epidemic of syria conspiracy theories (i.e. "theres NO WAY Assad has done anything wrong, its all the evil imperialistic capitalistic neo liberal west, or them damn dirty je..Israelis somehow doing the gas attacks") among the far left in the UK  make me pine for the days of 9/11 conspiracy theories because at least 9/11 conspiracy theorists pretended to have proof



Oh, God, one of the people I'm friends with on FB believes that tripe.


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## Kamen Rider Black RX (Oct 23, 2013)

I believe that the United States purposely chose not to act despite having the intel to know about the attack. However, I also believe that they thought that the attack would not cause so many casualties. They just wanted a minor terror attack so they could go to war. It just was more effective than people would have believed.

Afterwords, the republicans used it as justification for war in the Middle East and Bush purposely directed the assault towards Iraq on behalf of the oil industry and some ties to Saudi Arabia. Reports show that after they got there, there was no intent to find Osama.

That sound about right guys?


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## Oglooger (Oct 23, 2013)




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## Niachu (Oct 23, 2013)

Oglooger said:
			
		

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Get out.


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## PvtRichardCranium (Oct 23, 2013)

There are some people who say that the people on the planes aren't really dead and are being paid by the government to stay in hiding.

Fuck you in the neck.


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## The Hunter (Oct 23, 2013)

Niachu said:
			
		

> Oglooger said:
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Look into your heart, you know it to be true.


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## Picklepower (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm not a truther anymore, but I do gotta say one thing that may be controversial. Many of the people that believe it was any kind of inside job, or some alternate explanation, are not actually bad people, and they aren't actually trying to offend the victims families, (for the most part, remember there are various alternate conspiracy narratives) They are wrong, (I believe) but they don't have an evil motive, they believe they are exposing the real truth, so I would attack the arguments and not the person making them. If you believed the government committed terrorism against its own people, and are surrounded by people that share your view, then of course you would be vocal, in your head it would be the right thing to do.

Well I wasn't active in the official, truther community or anything, I just believed it was an inside job. I didn't believe the anti-Semitic version of the conspiracy though, like the retarded claim that, no Jews were in the buildings that day. I believed the Loose Change narrative. Even my mother bought into the conspiracy kinda, which was a surprise to me, cause I never even talked to her about it.


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## Marvin (Oct 23, 2013)

Picklepower said:
			
		

> I'm not a truther anymore, but I do gotta say one thing that may be controversial. Many of the people that believe it was any kind of inside job, or some alternate explanation, are not actually bad people, and they aren't actually trying to offend the victims families, (for the most part, remember there are various alternate conspiracy narratives) They are wrong, (I believe) but they don't have an evil motive, they believe they are exposing the real truth, so I would attack the arguments and not the person making them. If you believed the government committed terrorism against its own people, and are surrounded by people that share your view, then of course you would be vocal, in your head it would be the right thing to do.
> 
> Well I wasn't active in the official, truther community or anything, I just believed it was an inside job. I didn't believe the anti-Semitic version of the conspiracy though, like the retarded claim that, no Jews were in the buildings that day. I believed the Loose Change narrative. Even my mother bought into the conspiracy kinda, which was a surprise to me, cause I never even talked to her about it.


They're not bad people, they're people with extremely stupid ideas.

I know I'm not always going to agree with people. And usually, even if I don't agree with someone, most of the time, I can still respect their opinion. But there are limits to that. Sometimes, you just reach the nutjob level. And I don't feel bad shaming nutjobs for their crazy beliefs. Remember, nutjobs can still vote.

Really, the big reason I don't discuss the 9/11 conspiracy theories that often is because I don't think truthers are a practical risk to anything important. They're like crazies on the sidewalk, I mostly ignore them because they're not worth my time.


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## Holdek (Oct 23, 2013)

Kamen Rider Black said:
			
		

> I believe that the United States purposely chose not to act despite having the intel to know about the attack. However, I also believe that they thought that the attack would not cause so many casualties. They just wanted a minor terror attack so they could go to war. It just was more effective than people would have believed.
> 
> Afterwords, the republicans used it as justification for war in the Middle East and Bush purposely directed the assault towards Iraq on behalf of the oil industry and some ties to Saudi Arabia. Reports show that after they got there, there was no intent to find Osama.
> 
> That sound about right guys?



No.


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## Holdek (Oct 23, 2013)

Picklepower said:
			
		

> I'm not a truther anymore, but I do gotta say one thing that may be controversial. Many of the people that believe it was any kind of inside job, or some alternate explanation, are not actually bad people, and they aren't actually trying to offend the victims families, (for the most part, remember there are various alternate conspiracy narratives) They are wrong, (I believe) but they don't have an evil motive, they believe they are exposing the real truth, so I would attack the arguments and not the person making them. If you believed the government committed terrorism against its own people, and are surrounded by people that share your view, then of course you would be vocal, in your head it would be the right thing to do.
> 
> Well I wasn't active in the official, truther community or anything, I just believed it was an inside job. I didn't believe the anti-Semitic version of the conspiracy though, like the retarded claim that, no Jews were in the buildings that day. I believed the Loose Change narrative. Even my mother bought into the conspiracy kinda, which was a surprise to me, cause I never even talked to her about it.



I just think it's inconsiderate to promote these theories because it trivializes the horror of what really happened into some kind of fantasy.


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## Picklepower (Oct 23, 2013)

Oh I can totally see it that way too, for example in that Popular Mechanic interview, the truther who if I remember right, was one of the Loose Change directors, came off as a pompous jackass, and not as someone spreading what he believes is the truth, because he actually cares. Funny, I heard one of the directors has now distanced himself from the movement, and his views have went to something like, "Bush just knew it was going to happen and let it", which while just as bad, is radically different then what they present in the movie, this Idea that the government actively caused the event.


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## Kamen Rider Black RX (Oct 23, 2013)

Holdek said:
			
		

> I just think it's inconsiderate to promote these theories because it trivializes the horror of what really happened into some kind of fantasy.



I'm going to disagree. There are a lot of questions about what happened leading up to the attack, and the States actions in the Middle-East raise the eyes of some. Not finding out the answers to these questions would be like if the police didn't investigate murders, except on a much larger scale.


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## Holdek (Oct 24, 2013)

Picklepower said:
			
		

> Oh I can totally see it that way too, for example in that Popular Mechanic interview, the truther who if I remember right, was one of the Loose Change directors, came off as a pompous jackass, and not as someone spreading what he believes is the truth, because he actually cares. Funny, I heard one of the directors has now distanced himself from the movement, and his views have went to something like, "Bush just knew it was going to happen and let it", which while just as bad, is radically different then what they present in the movie, this Idea that the government actively caused the event.



There's been like three different _Loose Change_ editions due to people pointing out flaws in the filmmakers' understanding of things like basic structural engineering and materials science.  



			
				Kamen Rider Black said:
			
		

> Holdek said:
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Except these issues _have_ been investigated.  And if people want to investigate further that's okay too.  But they should do it in an intelligent way and if they end up with outlandish conclusions they had better have the evidence to support them.  But they don't.


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## Picklepower (Oct 24, 2013)

I know, I think I saw the 3rd version. And that shitty Zeitgeist. Although I saw Zeitgeist after I stopped believing the conspiracy.


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## fuzzypickles (Dec 16, 2013)

As much as I feel that the government has taken advantage of the event too far, I feel that any conspiracy theory is plain retarded. None of them account for the fact that it would be impossible to pull them off without someone being suspicious. There would have been reports made months, if not years, before the attack detailing operations on the scale of 9/11. I also read that for some of the theories, entire rooms in the buildings would have to be gutted to make room for the thermite needed to take them down. In short, I refuse to listen to idiots who spew crap such as "de gub'mint dunnit".


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