# Would the world be better if Germany won WWI?



## ZeCommissar (Oct 29, 2017)

When Germany lost WWI the treaty of Versailles tanked the German dollar and made it one of the hardest nations hit during the Depression. This made groups like Nazism and Communism popular in the country  and the rest is history.

But what if they won the first world war? Would the Germans and Austria-Hungary  (if it didnt break apart) pull a treaty of Versailles on the allies and wreck Frances economy or would there be other terms of peace?

I'm going to assume with Germany being the hegemonic power after winning, Germany wasnt hit as hard during the depression, and that Hitler and Nazism never took root. I also believe fascism would have taken root in Italy regardless (maybe even more so if they surrendered with the rest of the allies). Would the Holocaust happen? 

There are just so many questions and alternate routes, but do you think that the world would be better or worse with a Kaiser victory?


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## Paralethal (Oct 29, 2017)

If my grandmother'd had balls, would she have been a better grandfather?


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## ES 148 (Oct 29, 2017)

Probably worse. I'm not sure why but it's a gut feeling, which I understand is a terrible way to argue but it's all I've got so that's that.


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## Hui (Oct 29, 2017)

No


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## ICametoLurk (Oct 29, 2017)

It would be if the tard who invented fire got burned alive instead.


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## BILLY MAYS (Oct 29, 2017)

The world would be better if Hitler created art about hedgehog rodent hybrids that can shoot lightning.


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## From The Uncanny Valley (Oct 29, 2017)

Would the world be better if it was just a lifeless rock?


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## Black Waltz (Oct 29, 2017)

Uncanny Valley said:


> Would the world be better if it was just a lifeless rock?


maybe


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## NIGGO KILLA (Oct 29, 2017)

Anime from Japan would suck if we didnt nuke japan and take over its culture transforming it


so deferentially no


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## BILLY MAYS (Oct 30, 2017)

NIGGO KILLA said:


> Anime from Japan would suck if we didnt nuke japan and take over its culture transforming it
> 
> 
> so deferentially no


i have an idea on how to improve japanese anime

drop a colony on them


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## Foltest (Oct 30, 2017)

It may have been or it may have not. The possibilities is endless. Europe may had seen another world war that would have been far more destructive then the one we had, or we would have gotten an organisation like EU earlier. We certainly wouldn't have the holocaust and the mass extermination of slavs, gypsies and other "undesirable". 
 know however, that the world would have been better if not some autistic serb shot the archduke.


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## millais (Oct 30, 2017)

It depends on what other mods you're running with HOI's Kaiserreich.


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## Deadwaste (Oct 31, 2017)

wenn das der Fall wäre, würde ich jetzt Deutsch sprechen


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## Ponderous Pillock (Nov 2, 2017)

An interesting question.

The big issue with Germany is, and was, that she's too big for Europe, but too small for the world. I actually suspect the Germans would've gone more for a way of getting tax free goods across borders, which considering their dominance before WW1 of electronics and chemicals would've been a staggeringly huge long term benefit. The German film industry, and it's subsequent cultural impact, would've continued as well.

I don't see them taking massive chunks of territory, mostly because Germany would've actively struggled to control colonies if they'd taken large bites out of the French and British Empires. 

Concessions, or even a revival of Anglo-Germanic relations would've probably been quite swift as fighting Germany was most certainly a major historic and strategic mistake from the British Perspective with hindsight. 

Mostly because it committed huge amounts of blood and treasure to a grinding ground war on one large front, rather than what the Empire was used to which was mostly nicking colonies off of its rivals and more lightly fought wars that the professionals, or zerg rush of Indian Sepoys could normally handle.

So, instead we'd probably see trade concessions and other things forced through with the peace, some colonies conceded or divided giving the Germans some more turf and reparations but not enough to cripple anyone with intent. The British would be forced to drop protecting Belgium as well, the only reason we wound up fighting alongside the French in the first place.

France would be the bigger loser, seeing Alsace Lorraine go once again back to Germany (a sore point of over 40 years by the time of WW1 already) as well as a general loss of prestige, its industry wrecked (most of its initial heavy factories were in the region invaded by Germany first) and paying money towards the Germans as well would be yet another humiliation for the Republic. Revolution would not be far behind as we see in Kaiserreich. 

Indeed, a revived Napoleon coming from the ranks of the frontline could easily rise up. Either with a socialist tinged bent, or hyper nationalism a la Bonaparte. France and the resources she could still command would become rather dangerous again very very quickly.


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## Bum Driller (Nov 20, 2017)

If the Germans had won the WWI and brought the restrictions of Versailles treaty upon France, we would have just gotten Nazi France. Just think how evil that would have been.


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## Strelok (Nov 21, 2017)

Excluding the Schlieffen plan somehow working (youd have to change so many variables for this that you might as well be fight a different war) and knocking France out of the war early, the most logical way for Germany to win would be the us not entering the war or blockading Germany. This would likely result in the war dragging out for another year or two, leaving Europe in even worse shape than it was post WW1. (It should be noted this still isn't a guaranteed win for Germany, just a fighting chance) Austria Hungary and the Ottomans still would have collapsed, as all losing ww1 did was accelerate the failure of their states.

Brittain would likely focus even harder on colonialism without a presence in Europe anymore, and France would be licking their wounds much in the way weimar Germany was.

The real problem is no matter who wins WW1 the fundamental problem remains. That is an increasingly modern military being incompatible with the concept of a balance of power system of regional stability.


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## Male Idiot (Nov 23, 2017)

Anything that cancelled the treaty of Versalilles would have been an improvement. Even siding with Hitler was (and partly is) considered a lesser evil for us huns.


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## Broseph Stalin (Nov 27, 2017)

Yes.


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## Diplowave (Nov 27, 2017)

They would of atleast permabanned gypsies. So thats one benefit.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Nov 27, 2017)

Yes, in short. Europe would have remained largely monarchical, Russia could have been better handled, America could have avoided some of Woodrow Wilson's political entrenchment, etc. The problem comes from the fact that we're taught to think of Germany as the "bad guys" in WW I because they were in the sequel, but in reality while no one's arguments were more justified than any other argument in the Great War a German victory would have curtailed European democracy, the European Union, communism, and more. This is a _good thing. _ America should never have been involved.


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## Morose_Obesity (Nov 27, 2017)

if only Hitler had discovered niggers


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## escapegoat (Nov 27, 2017)

Post Dreyfus and all, I bet you are looking at something _like _Nazi France in an alternate timeline.

I mean, really, what happens with Russia, if WW2 never happens to Russia?


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## Bum Driller (Nov 28, 2017)

escapegoat said:


> Post Dreyfus and all, I bet you are looking at something _like _Nazi France in an alternate timeline.
> 
> I mean, really, what happens with Russia, if WW2 never happens to Russia?



Just guessing, but I'm quite sure that the communism in Russia would've collapsed to infighting between the party elites if they wouldn't have had to fight against common enemy. But it's just a hunch.


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## Shit Waifu (Nov 29, 2017)

no, because my family would be dead for not being preshus aryans


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## Dooly Tilly (Dec 3, 2017)

I say yes as they would've removed the Zionists.


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## ICametoLurk (Dec 4, 2017)

Shit Waifu said:


> no, because my family would be dead for not being preshus aryans


So it would be better then is what you are saying.


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## Kurtzko (Dec 8, 2017)

The :autism: prussia-boo in me screams YES.
Realistically its a massive crapshoot, For example, I doubt there wouldnt be a second world war cause france would be butthurt over still not having alsace lorraine, and I can see a jingoistic france going for round two.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Dec 8, 2017)

Morose_Obesity said:


> if only Hitler had discovered niggers


They all new about blacks, but Himmler had a permanent erection for Jews.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Dec 9, 2017)

Shit Waifu said:


> no, because my family would be dead for not being preshus aryans



Wrong war. Imperial Germany loved everyone but Catholics and republicans.


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## Zarkov (Dec 9, 2017)

Yes because that godless beached whale Merkel would never have been put in a position of power.


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## Sable (Dec 10, 2017)

Sort of, but that depends on how long the war goes on for.

If Germany wins WW1 fast enough then there would be less justification for harsher terms, perhaps leading to less lingering resentment. Conversely, a longer war might see worse reperations. 

I think that Germany had a better chance of defeating France quickly than France Germany, and the shorter the war is the better for Europe and the world in general. 

Trade didn't increase back to 1914 levels until the mid 60's for example, and even without millions dying and industry being fucked, the debts caused by the first world war basically lead to the Great Depression. 

The thing is, WW1 as it happened occured at maybe the only time it could have as it did- Imperial Russia was becoming stronger at an alarming rate, a few more years and the balance of power pendulum (at least in the case of Britain) would tend less towards 'Contain Germany' and more towards 'Oh shit, contain Russia'.

So yeah, a quick IG victory is better for the world, everything else is fuck.


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## Dooly Tilly (Dec 10, 2017)

Has anyone read "bad war"?...it was banned from Amazon but now it's available again with a 2nd edition update.

Bad war exonerates the Hitler regime by using source documents and appropriate excerpts.


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## Dooly Tilly (Dec 13, 2017)

Hitler invaded Poland in response to the Danzig massacre, but victors/zionists will have you believe otherwise.


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## gumboman (Feb 12, 2018)

ZeCommissar said:


> When Germany lost WWI the treaty of Versailles tanked the German dollar and made it one of the hardest nations hit during the Depression. This made groups like Nazism and Communism popular in the country  and the rest is history.
> 
> But what if they won the first world war? Would the Germans and Austria-Hungary  (if it didnt break apart) pull a treaty of Versailles on the allies and wreck Frances economy or would there be other terms of peace?
> 
> ...


define better


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## Slap47 (Feb 12, 2018)

We'd probably see Germany in following through with its Lebensraum in the east and a peaces with Britain and France after the blitz that would end in small exchanges of territory and reparations. 



Ponderous Pillock said:


> France would be the bigger loser, seeing Alsace Lorraine go once again back to Germany (a sore point of over 40 years by the time of WW1 already) as well as a general loss of prestige, its industry wrecked (most of its initial heavy factories were in the region invaded by Germany first) and paying money towards the Germans as well would be yet another humiliation for the Republic. Revolution would not be far behind as we see in Kaiserreich.
> 
> Indeed, a revived Napoleon coming from the ranks of the frontline could easily rise up. Either with a socialist tinged bent, or hyper nationalism a la Bonaparte. France and the resources she could still command would become rather dangerous again very very quickly.





Bum Driller said:


> If the Germans had won the WWI and brought the restrictions of Versailles treaty upon France, we would have just gotten Nazi France. Just think how evil that would have been.



French people didn't have the same desire for paternal dictators or the same economic power for such a regime for that to be a threat. France wasn't just bled white by ww1, it was in the midst of a population crisis that would continue on regardless of how the war went. 

France didn't actually care about losing Alsace Lorraine. The people in Paris and the countryside didn't care and the Alsatians themselves wanted their own country or at least semi-autonomy in either of the countries.


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## El Garbage (Feb 12, 2018)

Even if Germany won for some reason in 1918, everything would have been fucked up what with the war destroying our cultural heritage and crippling the entire continent. France might have fallen fascist and allied with Spain and Italy, forming a nasty southern block, and the UK could have become a communist state, allied with the Soviet Union.

A victory in 1914 for either side would have made the conflict just a footnote in history, like the Franco-Prussian war of 1870-71. However, the ensuing Great War of 1960 would have killed everyone with unrestricted chemical (and possibly nuclear, had it been invented) warfare.


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## Tallest Irk (Feb 13, 2018)

I don't think the world would be in a better shape if the germans had won.
There were too many political players following the partially insane zeitgeist and crude theories.

Just a few points:
Racial hate was the norm and scientifically backed while superstition was mainstream.
Churchill was a fan of using gas against "lesser races", the UK invented concentration camps for the second boer war.
Even Gandhi was a racist. Lenin and Stalin were homicidal maniacs all around.
The nobility in europe was more inbred than anything and fascism and communism was on the rise.


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## de_DEVIL_tails (Feb 13, 2018)

Oh, sweet summer child. The world would not be any better, or worse; It would merely *be*.


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## Overly Serious (Dec 13, 2021)

Morose_Obesity said:


> if only Hitler had discovered niggers


There were Black soldiers in the German army. Not many but some. They were mixed in with everyone else unlike the racist US army which segregated them into their own battalions.



Bum Driller said:


> Just guessing, but I'm quite sure that the communism in Russia would've collapsed to infighting between the party elites if they wouldn't have had to fight against common enemy. But it's just a hunch.


They'd have done what every other struggling elite does without a common enemy - create one.



Shit Waifu said:


> no, because my family would be dead for not being preshus aryans


WW1, not WW2. There wouldn't have _been_ a Hitler-type leader if Germany hadn't been subject to the Treaty of Verseille. _(probably)_


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## TheTrumanShow (Dec 13, 2021)

What you should be asking is "would it be better if a degenerate amalgation of nations under an aging emperor where nobody is happy with anybody, aka Austro-Hungary had won the war". 

And the answer is no, always no.


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## attractive_pneumonia (Dec 13, 2021)

I'd consider this from the perspective of Germany somehow pulling off some sort of major victory out of the 1918 Ludendorff Offensive. Germany had on multiple occasions offered terms of status quo ante bellum to France and Britain during the war and was rebuked, I wouldn't expect Germany to annex any land directly in Europe beyond the Brest-Litovsk treaty. With France and Britain losing the war I doubt you get _any_ support for the Whites in Russia, so they still turn Communist; A-H and the Ottomans wouldn't be able to pop the genie of nationalism back into the lamp so likely you get some real heavy civil wars in both countries with secessionist movements all over. France, likely subject to some sort of war indemnity would buckle, I would expect some sort of civil war similar to Russia or the Spanish Civil War, communist vs a cabal of Generals trying to maintain order by any means possible. Britain, I think would have Ireland go full retard for independence and likely the white colonies, Rhodesia, South Africa, Canada, Australia and New Zealand would be so absolutely indignant over the waste of lives that they would start overt movements towards independence. India would have moved towards independence 20 years earlier and likely the resulting Muslim-Hindu civil war would have caused the Raj to split the sub-continent up into multiple states, beyond that of what we got in reality. The US would probably be the least effected by a collapse of the war, but I suspect it would lead to a more extreme version of isolationism than what we experienced in reality. In the land carved out from Brest-Litovsk I would expect Germany to place various small puppet states  that were easy to control but they would be absolute dogshit and full of communist uprisings fostered by Soviet Russia. Germany would survive intact but have a real bad recession/depression post war as the various economy around them collapsed, France probably defaulting on its loans to the US snarling global investment enthusiasm as well. 

tl;dr Way more anarchy as the various nationalist movements forced what was structured independence movements in the real world. Probably no WW2 but high levels of civil war and smaller wars


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## HullDown (Dec 13, 2021)

As others have mentioned, a German victory in WWI would have ensured them very little in the way of annexed provinces and would have maintained their essential national problem of being surrounded on both sides by foreign powers with comparable military powers. 

What could make the alternative history more spicy is to look at France and Russia after a WWI defeat. The Third French Empire had fallen after the 1870 war, and the Republic bringing back no results whatsoever after the horrors of Verdun would likely have meant the end of the Republic as well. There were still monarchists, especially in the Army, so that could have led to a French restoration after a coup, meaning essentially a military junta with a nominal king. Russia would have had a tougher beginning as the USSR, but I don't think the whites would have been able to capitalize on a German victory much. At most, if Germany was willing, a White Poland as a puppet state/insurance against Russia. 
The 1918 Finnish Civil War would then have been shorter and less impactful on geopolitics, since if Russia is still licking his wounds and won't intervene, the Finns won't call for German intervention either. This means that Germany loses an ally against Russia, at least until they decide to attempt an invasion. 

The geopolitical problem of Germany remains. They can't both have a navy that can compete with England and an army that can face Russia and France. Their only possible allies are Austria, Italy, Romania, and other non-powers that are more likely to hinder than to help. And now they possibly face a military-led France and a USSR that they offended by offering support to whites, meaning no Molotov-Ribbentrop. 

So WWII in 1930 and a return to a Europe much like today's?

I'll take my puzzle pieces with pride.


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## Cool Dog (Dec 17, 2021)

Question: had germany gone with a defensive strategy in the border with france, like just making a fortification line full of artillery like the paris gun and basically bomb any french troops trying to get near it, would france have invaded belgium instead to go around and attack germany? and if that happened would the brits have entered the war against france given their treaty with belgium?


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## capitalBBustard (Dec 21, 2021)

Mothra88 said:


> Anyone who says yes is a complete retard.  And the fiction that a Nazi controlled world would have been good for white people is an idiotic concept contradicted by the fact Hitler was such an autist he was planning to genocide Slavs and wouldn't have stopped there either.  The world would be unironically better if Hitter was never born.  You wouldn't have had all that death and murder, and then you wouldn't have had the over-reaction by academia that created post-modernism that lead to woke stuff.  Best of both worlds.


World War One You Sped​


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## Mothra1988 (Dec 21, 2021)

capitalBBustard said:


> World War One You Sped​


Good point.  LOL.  I admit I fucked up.  I was so used to the same question about WWII, I must have just scanned the OP on auto-pilot.


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## Male Idiot (Dec 22, 2021)

Tallest Irk said:


> I don't think the world would be in a better shape if the germans had won.
> There were too many political players following the partially insane zeitgeist and crude theories.
> 
> Just a few points:
> ...



So it would be perfect world? You listed virtues.
Racism is science. But like chromosomes, not Ethical True and Feel Good Virtue Science. Enjoy girldick. You deserve it.


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## Lord Neeba (Dec 22, 2021)

TheTrumanShow said:


> What you should be asking is "would it be better if a degenerate amalgation of nations under an aging emperor where nobody is happy with anybody, aka Austro-Hungary had won the war".
> 
> And the answer is no, always no.


The idea that everyone wanted out of Austria-Hungary is mostly just post-war propaganda. Most nationalist groups only wanted increased local autonomy within the framework of the Habsburg empire, not outright independence.


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