# Boy how times have changed...



## Pickle Dick (Nov 24, 2020)

I've been looking through every old posts on the Kiwi Farms from when it was first created, and man has the board culture changed _a lot_. 

The very first thread on the Farms is evident of this change. Wouldn't you believe that @Hollywood Hulk Hogan was once beloved by many and him joining the site on launch date was revered by all?




Nowadays, it seems he gets dragged into political threads and, rather than just simply ignore the threads, always gets into arguments with the right-wing members of the site

Man, it seemed this place used to be bright and optimistic. What ever happened here?


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## Battlecruiser3000ad (Nov 24, 2020)

Wrestling Arena brain damage, don't be a disablephobe


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## themasterlurker (Nov 24, 2020)

> Man, it seemed this place used to be bright and optimistic. What ever happened here?


When Null added the optimistic rating, things went to shit


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## L50LasPak (Nov 24, 2020)

He let the outcome of Bollea v Gawker go to his head.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

The forum wasn't political back then. As the scope expanded to cover political lolcows, politics and related arguments became increasingly widespread on the forum.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Nov 24, 2020)

It was because of ((Them)).


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## Some JERK (Nov 24, 2020)

@CompyRex

Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time...

... a _long time._


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

As a person who only started using this site after the IBS Apocalypse I can tell you that Jawsh appearing on IBS and attracting chan refugees like me fucked this site irreparably. Welcome to the new retard order, sorry about how retarded we are.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

Erischan said:


> As a person who only started using this site after the IBS Apocalypse I can tell you that Jawsh appearing on IBS and attracting chan refugees like me fucked this site irreparably. Welcome to the new retard order, sorry about how retarded we are.


At least you admit it.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> At least you admit it.


PLEASE STOP TROLLING BRITBONG, HIS PARENTS ARE BEATING HIM AND HE WON'T STOP SCREAMING AT US IN DISCORD


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## Marissa Moira (Nov 24, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> The forum wasn't political back then. As the scope expanded to cover political lolcows, politics and related arguments became increasingly widespread on the forum.


That and social media has shoah'd right wingers so they wind up here and other places.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

Marissa Moira said:


> That and social media has shoah'd right wingers so they wind up here and other places.


I don't think this site is big enough to get many of the people coming from social media. They tend to go to Parler or 4chan. I'd more blame Null's flirting with the far right a few years back and the Christchurch incident.


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## Marissa Moira (Nov 24, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> I don't think this site is big enough to get many of the people coming from social media. They tend to go to Parler or 4chan. I'd more blame Null's flirting with the far right a few years back and the Christchurch incident.


There's crossover between here and 4chan.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

Marissa Moira said:


> There's crossover between here and 4chan.


There is, but 4chan is much bigger. This site isn't even in the top 40,000 sites by Alexa rank, whereas 4chan is in the top 1,000.


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## Sir Bartleby Montclair (Nov 24, 2020)

Right wingers started coming here en masse because they think any website that allows free speech is going to be their echo chamber. Then they dogpile Hulk any time he gives an opinion left of center, and they _always_ take Dynastia's bait. Always. They drive me crazy. 

Reading old tranny threads is interesting too. Seems most people here now believe that trannyism is BS. Very old threads about troons have people saying things like "He's not a REAL transwoman" and there were a lot more posts from openly tranmy members.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> There is, but 4chan is much bigger. This site isn't even in the top 40,000 sites by Alexa rank, whereas 4chan is in the top 1,000.


80% of that is perpetual reposts on porn boards. 19% is shills shilling shills on pol. 1% is actual user traffic.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

Sir Bartleby Montclair said:


> Right wingers started coming here en masse because they think any website that allows free speech is going to be their echo chamber. Then they dogpile Hulk any time he gives an opinion left of center, and they _always_ take Dynastia's bait. Always. They drive me crazy.
> 
> Reading old tranny threads is interesting too. Seems most people here now believe that trannyism is BS. Very old threads about troons have people saying things like "He's not a REAL transwoman" and there were a lot more posts from openly tranmy members.


I'm a relatively right leaning user but since I've been around for a few years I know who HHH and Dyn are and don't get into arguments with them. This is a free speech website, so that includes liberal speech too, regardless of whether the A&H crowd accept that or not. I also agree that troonery is BS, but not from a "RAA DEGENERACY" far right perspective, just a biological one. Many of the most vocal opponents of troonery in real life are women, because they know there are biological differences between them and men, as we also do.


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## L50LasPak (Nov 24, 2020)

Even a few years ago when I started lurking this site wasn't as politically charged as it is currently. I think its just the unholy trinity of The Varus, the Spedsidential Election and the riots all happening in the same relatively short period of time that has people pissed off and riled up. 

The irony is that the Christchurch shooting seemed to give a lot of the more xenophobic people pause since it was pretty unnerving to watch a bunch of unarmed people just get wasted like that by such an obvious lunatic. But now all you hear from some people is niggersnigersniggersniggersniggers burnt down my neighborhood/stole my mail/raped my dog/rated my post autistic/etc, especially once the riots started up.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> I'm a relatively right leaning user but since I've been around for a few years I know who HHH and Dyn are and don't get into arguments with them. This is a free speech website, so that includes liberal speech too, regardless of whether the A&H crowd accept that or not. I also agree that troonery is BS, but not from a "RAA DEGENERACY" far right perspective, just a biological one. Many of the most vocal opponents of troonery in real life are women, because they know there are biological differences between them and men, as we also do.


I'm more inclined to argue with trolls like HHH or Dyn than people who genuinely believe what they're saying because unlike the people who genuinely believe it I want HHH and Dyn to shut the fuck up and kill themselves.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

L50LasPak said:


> Even a few years ago when I started lurking this site wasn't as politically charged as it is currently. I think its just the unholy trinity of The Varus, the Spedsidential Election and the riots all happening in the same relatively short period of time that has people pissed off and riled up.
> 
> The irony is that the Christchurch shooting seemed to give a lot of the more xenophobic people pause since it was pretty unnerving to watch a bunch of unarmed people just get wasted like that by such an obvious lunatic. But now all you hear from some people is niggersnigersniggersniggersniggers burnt down my neighborhood/stole my mail/raped my dog/rated my post autistic/etc, especially once the riots started up.


A&H has definitely been like that for a while. It was in 2019 before the virus and riots. You just hear that sort of commentary about those issues now.


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## L50LasPak (Nov 24, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> A&H has definitely been like that for a while. It was in 2019 before the virus and riots. You just hear that sort of commentary about those issues now.



A&H has always had shades of that but speaking as someone who spends the majority of my time on this site in those threads, its definitely gotten worse recently.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

L50LasPak said:


> The irony is that the Christchurch shooting seemed to give a lot of the more xenophobic people pause since it was pretty unnerving to watch a bunch of unarmed people just get wasted like that by such an obvious lunatic.


It baffles me that there are actually human beings who think Brenton Tarrant did anything wrong.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 24, 2020)

L50LasPak said:


> A&H has always had shades of that but speaking as someone who spends the majority of my time on this site in those threads, its definitely gotten worse recently.


I remember a lot of Jewspiracy stuff as far back as 2017, but it may have got worse with more 4chan users coming in.


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## Rebel Wilson (Nov 24, 2020)

Just lol at keeping the same post history and ID for 7 years.


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## Sped Xing (Nov 24, 2020)

I'm just a newbie.  I didn't realize how likeable @Hollywood Hulk Hogan was.  Nobody told me.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Nov 24, 2020)

Erischan said:


> I'm more inclined to argue with trolls like HHH or Dyn than people who genuinely believe what they're saying because unlike the people who genuinely believe it I want HHH and Dyn to shut the fuck up and kill themselves.


"Everyone who disagrees with my autistic worldview is a troll"


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## Marissa Moira (Nov 24, 2020)

Erischan said:


> It baffles me that there are actually human beings who think Brenton Tarrant did anything wrong.


The video shows him fumbling and dropping his ammo.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:


> "Everyone who disagrees with my autistic worldview is a troll"


Me: I like people who actually disagree with me but disingenuousness annoys the fuck out of me
HHH's disingenuous brain: You don't think anyone can disagree with you!!!1

Thanks for proving my point.


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## Doctor Placebo (Nov 24, 2020)

Sped Xing said:


> I'm just a newbie.  I didn't realize how likeable @Hollywood Hulk Hogan was.  Nobody told me.


Now all he does is spam low effort Trump a-logging.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Doctor Placebo said:


> Now all he does is spam low effort Trump a-logging.


"Look at this fucking retard saying fucking retarded shit, I'm gonna- Oh. It's just facetious bullshit. There's no substance."
The HHH experience.


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## Pickle Dick (Nov 24, 2020)

haha, aw man

how naive everyone was back then


this is small potatoes compared to what goes on in the farms now


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## KateHikes14 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sir Bartleby Montclair said:


> Right wingers started coming here en masse because they think any website that allows free speech is going to be their echo chamber. Then they dogpile Hulk any time he gives an opinion left of center, and they _always_ take Dynastia's bait. Always. They drive me crazy.
> 
> Reading old tranny threads is interesting too. Seems most people here now believe that trannyism is BS. Very old threads about troons have people saying things like "He's not a REAL transwoman" and there were a lot more posts from openly tranmy members.


I'm confused what that second paragraph is supposed to mean, should the main lolcow threads constantly be going over whatever version of gender theory is in at the moment? It seems rather dumb, we don't have threads on people like Iron Liz because she's not a lolcow, discussing the rare non-lolcow tranny is inherently not lolcow discussion. Do you miss the "no-troo-troon" posts? There is the general transgender discussion thread where you can post till the cows come home about how you shouldn't call ADF a transsexual because it makes trannies look bad whatever your excuse is.


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## Sperghetti (Nov 24, 2020)

Sir Bartleby Montclair said:


> Reading old tranny threads is interesting too. Seems most people here now believe that trannyism is BS. Very old threads about troons have people saying things like "He's not a REAL transwoman" and there were a lot more posts from openly tranmy members.



I have to admit, I'd enjoy tranny lolcow threads a whole lot more of they didn't regularly descend into the same old MOTI ree-ing about giving kids hormone blockers and cutting off dicks and 41%, and just stuck to laughing at what all-around freaks the subjects are.


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## Step Away From The Melon (Nov 24, 2020)

Crossover with all the different sections of the forum isn't overbearing it's always healthy to have different views represented, anyone who's here to do anything other than laugh or shake they're head at all the lunacy is a loon.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Sperghetti said:


> I have to admit, I'd enjoy tranny lolcow threads a whole lot more of they didn't regualrly descend into the same old MOTI ree-ing about giving kids hormone blockers and cutting off dicks and 41%, and just stuck to laughing at what all-around freaks the subjects are.


It's hard to laugh at things that have horrific, far reaching, and lasting consequences. Nobody really laughs at the zoo shit either. I think most people have realized that there's something a bit more insidious to trannies than just a retard in a dress. Remember Chandler's dad the tranny on friends? Haha, that was funny. Real trannies aren't that funny. They rape kids and have fistulas and try to foment communist revolutions with mixed success.


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## Syaoran Li (Nov 24, 2020)

L50LasPak said:


> Even a few years ago when I started lurking this site wasn't as politically charged as it is currently. I think its just the unholy trinity of The Varus, the Spedsidential Election and the riots all happening in the same relatively short period of time that has people pissed off and riled up.
> 
> The irony is that the Christchurch shooting seemed to give a lot of the more xenophobic people pause since it was pretty unnerving to watch a bunch of unarmed people just get wasted like that by such an obvious lunatic. But now all you hear from some people is niggersnigersniggersniggersniggers burnt down my neighborhood/stole my mail/raped my dog/rated my post autistic/etc, especially once the riots started up.



I've been lurking on and off here since 2014 and I officially joined in 2017, right after the site came back up after seemingly been taken down forever for like a month. There has been a distinct shift in the culture over the years

I'd say part of it has to do with Null's brief love affair with the far right during the peak IBS years and then the fact that everything just became more politically charged in general since 2016. Before 2019, the right-wing spergs were largely confined to A&H and to a lesser extent, Deep Thoughts as well as a few specific threads in Community Watch or for specific political lolcows like ADF and Brianna Wu.

Then the Christchurch tragedy changed a lot of it, part of it would be due to 8chan's demise having opened the floodgates.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> I've been lurking on and off here since 2014 and I officially joined in 2017, right after the site came back up after seemingly been taken down forever for like a month. There has been a distinct shift in the culture over the years
> 
> I'd say part of it has to do with Null's brief love affair with the far right during the peak IBS years and then the fact that everything just became more politically charged in general since 2016. Before 2019, the right-wing spergs were largely confined to A&H and to a lesser extent, Deep Thoughts as well as a few specific threads in Community Watch or for specific political lolcows like ADF and Brianna Wu.
> 
> Then the Christchurch tragedy changed a lot of it, part of it would be due to 8chan's demise having opened the floodgates.


Generally my rule of thumb is that I'll shit up any thread I want as long as it's not in lolcows in which case I will only try to post relevant and substantial posts.
Not because I'm scared of jannies (fuck jannies ban me you wont no balls) but because they're good threads that serve a function.


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## Syaoran Li (Nov 24, 2020)

Erischan said:


> Generally my rule of thumb is that I'll shit up any thread I want as long as it's not in lolcows in which case I will only try to post relevant and substantial posts.



It's kind of weird because I've always seen myself as a "90's/early 2000's liberal but pro-gun" type politically speaking and I still identified as a liberal when I first signed up but then I started semi-jokingly identifying as a centrist as the Woke Left became more insane and the neolibs totally backed all their moves.

Now as we see more far right spergs and "traditionalist" social conservatives who think Pat Buchanan was too morally lenient, I've gone back to proudly identifying as a liberal.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> It's kind of weird because I've always seen myself as a "90's/early 2000's liberal but pro-gun" type politically speaking and I still identified as a liberal when I first signed up but then I started semi-jokingly identifying as a centrist as the Woke Left became more insane and the neolibs totally backed all their moves.
> 
> Now as we see more far right spergs and "traditionalist" social conservatives who think Pat Buchanan was too morally lenient, I've gone back to proudly identifying as a liberal.


Everyone I talk to who is vaguely right wing has this same sort of story where they started out left wing and drifted right for some reason.
I've never been able to relate. I hated jews when I was born. I knew 9/11 was an inside job when I watched it live. I've always seen the 'conspiracy theories' plain as day, without prompting, and never had a "my eyes are open now," moment.
I was never not this way. I'm some sort of racism indigo child.


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## Doctor Placebo (Nov 24, 2020)

Erischan said:


> It's hard to laugh at things that have horrific, far reaching, and lasting consequences. Nobody really laughs at the zoo shit either. I think most people have realized that there's something a bit more insidious to trannies than just a retard in a dress. Remember Chandler's dad the tranny on friends? Haha, that was funny. Real trannies aren't that funny. They rape kids and have fistulas and try to *foment communist revolutions with mixed success.*


Name a single successful troon-led communist revolution, because I think I missed that in history class.



Syaoran Li said:


> It's kind of weird because I've always seen myself as a "90's/early 2000's liberal but pro-gun" type politically speaking and I still identified as a liberal when I first signed up but then I started semi-jokingly identifying as a centrist as the Woke Left became more insane and the neolibs totally backed all their moves.
> 
> Now as we see more far right spergs and "traditionalist" social conservatives who think Pat Buchanan was too morally lenient, I've gone back to proudly identifying as a liberal.


Meanwhile, the behavior of the American left over the past few years has brought me closer to right wing radicalism than anything the right could do in a lifetime.



When it comes to how I think society should be run, I probably still fall fairly center-right, but the methods I'm willing to defend and the people I'm willing to at least consider allying with have definitely broadened thanks to how widespread the witch hunts, censorship, violence, and general societal insanity has become, along with how protected and reinforced it is by the rich and powerful.


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Doctor Placebo said:


> Name a single successful troon-led communist revolution, because I think I missed that in history class.


I said mixed success, which is actually far worse than actual success because the horrors that result are unpredictable even to their creators. Insert picture of building burning down with a BLM sign out front here.


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## Bunny Tracks (Nov 24, 2020)

While I do agree things started getting hectic after Christchuch, things really started going downhill after the riots started. The border really should've been closed once those started kicking off.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Nov 24, 2020)

Erischan said:


> "Look at this fucking retard saying fucking retarded shit, I'm gonna- Oh. It's just facetious bullshit. There's no substance."
> The HHH experience.


Says the literal autist who can't see anything from besides their worldview, which was formed living in his mom's basement


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## Eris! (Nov 24, 2020)

Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:


> Says the literal autist who can't see anything from besides their worldview, which was formed living in his mom's basement


>having a worldview


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## Curt Sibling (Nov 24, 2020)

Simple answer: The current site has tons more faggots than before.
(Myself excluded, naturally. I'm simply a retard.)


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## Sir Bartleby Montclair (Nov 24, 2020)

KateHikes14 said:


> I'm confused what that second paragraph is supposed to mean, should the main lolcow threads constantly be going over whatever version of gender theory is in at the moment? It seems rather dumb, we don't have threads on people like Iron Liz because she's not a lolcow, discussing the rare non-lolcow tranny is inherently not lolcow discussion. Do you miss the "no-troo-troon" posts? There is the general transgender discussion thread where you can post till the cows come home about how you shouldn't call ADF a transsexual because it makes trannies look bad whatever your excuse is.


What? I'm just pointing out that the attitude surrounding trannies has changed. A few years ago, there was a lot more sympathy. Now there isn't.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not saying I miss it. It's just another example of how the site overall has shifted politically over the years.


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## KateHikes14 (Nov 24, 2020)

Sir Bartleby Montclair said:


> What? I'm just pointing out that the attitude surrounding trannies has changed. *A few years ago, there was a lot more sympathy. Now there isn't.*
> 
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not saying I miss it. It's just another example of how the site overall has shifted politically over the years.


Huh. Really makes you


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 25, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> It's kind of weird because I've always seen myself as a "90's/early 2000's liberal but pro-gun" type politically speaking and I still identified as a liberal when I first signed up but then I started semi-jokingly identifying as a centrist as the Woke Left became more insane and the neolibs totally backed all their moves.
> 
> Now as we see more far right spergs and "traditionalist" social conservatives who think Pat Buchanan was too morally lenient, I've gone back to proudly identifying as a liberal.


I'm sort of the opposite in that I call myself a national conservative in real life and would absolutely vote for parties like Reform UK/AFD/Sweden Democrats etc but compared to some of the people on here I'm a liberal. I was once mistaken for being a Labour Party supporter even though I never endorsed them and thought Corbyn was useless. The issue is that the extreme moralists (and right wing cows like Carl Benjamin/Nick Fuentes etc) are so far outside the Overton window that almost everyone looks liberal to them. I recall someone moaning about "degenerate music" at one point, which even the tradcath Hungarian government doesn't care about. No one actually thinks rap music is dangerous except for old boomers and people scared of their own shadows.

People need to understand that edgelords like Benjamin and Fuentes are never getting anywhere near public office, because practically everyone hates them if they even know they exist.


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## Daisymae (Nov 25, 2020)

real talk, the kf legacy woulda been a lot better if @Null shut things down and walked away in 2017.


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## Cyclonus (Nov 25, 2020)

I can't believe you all respected Vade's pronouns.


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## Pickle Dick (Nov 25, 2020)

Daisymae said:


> real talk, the kf legacy woulda been a lot better if @Null shut things down and walked away in 2017.


January 20, 2017 (Donald Trump's inauguration day) seemed to pretty much be Kiwi Farms' 9/11

I remember the day the Farms came back up, and Null posted his "Life After Death", and everyone seemed quite happy that their favorite site was back up. You don't see that kind of joy among users of the Farms today.

(btw, that thread was the first thread i ever posted in, as i joined the farms the day it came back up)


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## CheezzyMach (Nov 26, 2020)

Sir Bartleby Montclair said:


> What? I'm just pointing out that the attitude surrounding trannies has changed. A few years ago, there was a lot more sympathy. Now there isn't.
> 
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not saying I miss it. It's just another example of how the site overall has shifted politically over the years.


Probably has to do with that movement becoming more authoritarian and insane in the last couple of years.



Pointless Pedant said:


> I'm sort of the opposite in that I call myself a national conservative in real life and would absolutely vote for parties like Reform UK/AFD/Sweden Democrats etc but compared to some of the people on here I'm a liberal. I was once mistaken for being a Labour Party supporter even though I never endorsed them and thought Corbyn was useless. The issue is that the extreme moralists (and right wing cows like Carl Benjamin/Nick Fuentes etc) are so far outside the Overton window that almost everyone looks liberal to them. I recall someone moaning about "degenerate music" at one point, which even the tradcath Hungarian government doesn't care about. No one actually thinks rap music is dangerous except for old boomers and people scared of their own shadows.
> 
> People need to understand that edgelords like Benjamin and Fuentes are never getting anywhere near public office, because practically everyone hates them if they even know they exist.


Meh, I still identify as a Leftist I just hate troon shit and the anti-sex attitude of the current mainstream Left.


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## Dom Cruise (Nov 26, 2020)

I mean, it was 2013, it was far more mellow days for the world.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Dom Cruise said:


> I mean, it was 2013, it was far more mellow days for the world.


Not if you were middle eastern or north African. That was the height of the Arab spring revolutions. Egypt was mental back then.


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## Dom Cruise (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Not if you were middle eastern or north African. That was the height of the Arab spring revolutions. Egypt was mental back then.


And then that kind of insanity started to spread elsewhere.


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## Eris! (Nov 27, 2020)

Dom Cruise said:


> And then that kind of insanity started to spread elsewhere.


White countries were good and nonwhite countries were shitholes. Now everywhere is a shithole. We're equal!


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Dom Cruise said:


> And then that kind of insanity started to spread elsewhere.


Islamic terrorism in Europe had already started by the (the London and Madrid bombings were back in the 2000s), and I'm pretty sure 9/11 _probably _counted as Islamist insanity spreading elsewhere.


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## Dom Cruise (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Islamic terrorism in Europe had already started by the (the London and Madrid bombings were back in the 2000s), and I'm pretty sure 9/11 _probably _counted as Islamist insanity spreading elsewhere.


What I meant was social upheaval fueled by social media, wasn't that what caused the Arab Spring? Arabs got to talking on social media, decided they didn't like the state of things and decided to tear shit up.

Meanwhile the same exact thing happened with blacks in America, the Arab spring was giving the world an early preview of the destructive power of social media.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Dom Cruise said:


> What I meant was social upheaval fueled by social media, wasn't that what caused the Arab Spring? Arabs got to talking on social media, decided they didn't like the state of things and decided to tear shit up.
> 
> Meanwhile the same exact thing happened with blacks in America, the Arab spring was giving the world an early preview of the destructive power of social media.


Social media helped organise the demonstrations a bit but it certainly didn't cause them. Syria had an Islamic uprising in 1982 too, but that was crushed quickly with the Hama massacre.


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## Eris! (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Social media helped organise the demonstrations a bit but it certainly didn't cause them. Syria had an Islamic uprising in 1982 too, but that was crushed quickly with the Hama massacre.


Your account name is very accurate. Why does every thread have some skeptic idiot who needs to provide a counterpoint to the most obvious and banal common sense?


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Erischan said:


> Your account name is very accurate. Why does every thread have some skeptic idiot who needs to provide a counterpoint to the most obvious and banal common sense?


"The middle east was violent and unstable before social media" is not a hot or even lukewarm take outside of sites like this.


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## Eris! (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> "The middle east was violent and unstable before social media" is not a hot or even lukewarm take outside of sites like this.


"Things have gotten worse since 2000" isn't either and yet here you are with muh devils advocacy against it.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Erischan said:


> "Things have gotten worse since 2000" isn't either and yet here you are with muh devils advocacy against it.


Depends on the country. That would be a common view in the USA (and I would agree that there has been an American decline since 9/11 too), but a very unpopular one in most of Asia.


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## Eris! (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Depends on the country. That would be a common view in the USA (and I would agree that there has been an American decline since 9/11 too), but a very unpopular one in most of Asia.


No one you are talking to is from Asia and no one gives a shit about a counterperspective. You are not deep for saying "ackshually..."


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Erischan said:


> No one you are talking to is from Asia and no one gives a shit about a counterperspective. You are not deep for saying "ackshually..."


We do have a few Asian users on the farms. Most people here are Americans, but not everyone.


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## Eris! (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> We do have a few Asian users on the farms. Most people here are Americans, but not everyone.


Not a single person cares.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Erischan said:


> Not a single person cares.


You seem to care _a lot_, to the point of getting Mad at the Internet over it.


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## Bunny Tracks (Nov 27, 2020)

Erischan said:


> Not a single person cares.


Apparently, you do, though.

*Edit:* Ninja'd.


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## Eris! (Nov 27, 2020)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Apparently, you do, though.





Pointless Pedant said:


> You seem to care _a lot_, to the point of getting Mad at the Internet over it.


Telling you to stop is the exact opposite of caring.


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## Dom Cruise (Nov 27, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Social media helped organise the demonstrations a bit but it certainly didn't cause them. Syria had an Islamic uprising in 1982 too, but that was crushed quickly with the Hama massacre.





Pointless Pedant said:


> "The middle east was violent and unstable before social media" is not a hot or even lukewarm take outside of sites like this.


And social media was like pouring gasoline on the fire, the 2011 Arab Spring revolts were absolutely a result of the social media age.


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## Pointless Pedant (Nov 27, 2020)

Dom Cruise said:


> And social media was like pouring gasoline on the fire, the 2011 Arab Spring revolts were absolutely a result of the social media age.


Given the long history of Islamist unrest going back to the Ikhwan during the formation of Saudi Arabia, I really doubt it. They just used the media of their generation rather than rallying everyone through the mosques like in the old days.


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## Pickle Dick (Dec 1, 2020)

@Hollywood Hulk Hogan circa March 2014







@Judge Holden circa April 2014


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## Judge Holden (Dec 1, 2020)

Pickle Dick said:


> @Hollywood Hulk Hogan circa March 2014
> View attachment 1760388
> View attachment 1760389
> @Judge Holden circa April 2014
> ...


Well, my anus is definitely still bleeding


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## Syaoran Li (Dec 2, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Given the long history of Islamist unrest going back to the Ikhwan during the formation of Saudi Arabia, I really doubt it. They just used the media of their generation rather than rallying everyone through the mosques like in the old days.



Disagree with you on this and I'm gonna have to agree with @Dom Cruise on the fact that social media added a whole new dimension to the Arab Spring since it spread so far and so fast.

It started in Tunisia close to the start of 2011 and by the autumn of that same year, Egypt had a full-circle revolution, Libya was in ruins and Gaddafi was gang-raped and murdered by a mob of his own former subjects, while Syria was rapidly dissolving into a civil war that rages on to this very day.

Social media is also why Occupy Wall Street sprang up as a nationwide phenomenon overnight.

If it weren't for social media, I doubt it would've spread as far or as effectively as it did. Part of why it was so effective was because everything happened nearly all at once as opposed to the "slow burn" timeframe of previous revolutions. IIRC, Syria was one of the last major countries to be plunged into the Arab Spring chaos and that's part of why Al-Assad is still alive and in power (that and he has Russian and Iranian support)

It can be argued that preexisting conflicts made the Arab Spring a lot worse but social media is what made it an Arab Spring and not just a Tunisian Spring or an Egyptian Spring


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## Mexican_Wizard_711 (Dec 2, 2020)




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## Pointless Pedant (Dec 2, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> Disagree with you on this and I'm gonna have to agree with @Dom Cruise on the fact that social media added a whole new dimension to the Arab Spring since it spread so far and so fast.
> 
> It started in Tunisia close to the start of 2011 and by the autumn of that same year, Egypt had a full-circle revolution, Libya was in ruins and Gaddafi was gang-raped and murdered by a mob of his own former subjects, while Syria was rapidly dissolving into a civil war that rages on to this very day.
> 
> ...


The 1989 Autumn of Nations and the revolutions of 1848 suggest otherwise. Also it didn't happen that quickly. The protests in Tunisia started in 2010 and the full circle revolution in Egypt took 3 years. Sisi didn't seize power until 2013.

I wouldn't say Syria was one of the last either, they were just lucky to have allies supporting them. Subsequently, there were revolutions in Algeria and Sudan in 2019. Algeria just swapped Bouteflika out for Tabbun and carried on, while Sudan was completely overthrown with Al Bashir replaced by a more moderate military junta that dismantled some of the excesses of Islamic law.


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## Syaoran Li (Dec 2, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> The 1989 Autumn of Nations and the revolutions of 1848 suggest otherwise. Also it didn't happen that quickly. The protests in Tunisia started in 2010 and the full circle revolution in Egypt took 3 years. Sisi didn't seize power until 2013.
> 
> I wouldn't say Syria was one of the last either, they were just lucky to have allies supporting them. Subsequently, there were revolutions in Algeria and Sudan in 2019. Algeria just swapped Bouteflika out for Tabbun and carried on, while Sudan was completely overthrown with Al Bashir replaced by a more moderate military junta that dismantled some of the excesses of Islamic law.



The Revolutions of 1848 were one of those perfect storm occurrences and the 1989 Autumn of Nations hinged on a domino effect that resulted from the Soviet Union's terminal decline. 

When you think about it, 1989 and 2011's sweeping waves of revolutions were both freak perfect storms that usually hinged on a specific X-factor or black swan event such as the decline of a superpower or the rise of social media.

Tunisia started in 2010 but IIRC, it was late into the year and the bulk of the Arab Spring was in 2011 and 2012 and during Occupy, people pointed out the direct parallels between OWS and the Arab Spring because of social media. 

I've kind of got a pet theory about the Woke Left becoming as powerful as they are because the corporate establishment was worried enough about Occupy that they decided to coopt it and have a whole new stable of useful idiots. 

Obviously, I don't think the bigwigs felt Occupy would get as bloody as the Arab Spring did but they did see it as a threat when it first emerged.

I'd consider the 2019 revolutions in Algeria and Sudan to be separate from the Arab Spring but that's just me


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## Pointless Pedant (Dec 2, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> The Revolutions of 1848 were one of those perfect storm occurrences and the 1989 Autumn of Nations hinged on a domino effect that resulted from the Soviet Union's terminal decline.
> 
> When you think about it, 1989 and 2011's sweeping waves of revolutions were both freak perfect storms that usually hinged on a specific X-factor or black swan event such as the decline of a superpower or the rise of social media.
> 
> ...


Occupy and the Arab Spring were coincidences. Occupy was a reaction to the 2008 recession, while the Arab Spring was a combination of decades of economic stagnation and bad weather. A drought in Syria had driven angry rural people into the cities, where they gathered to rebel in 2011. Given a lot of the revolutionaries were trying to introduce Islamist governments rather than socialist ones, it's safe to say the motivations were very different.

Notably, Yemen, an extremely poor country with little internet access, also had revolutions in 2011 and then 2015, the latter of which led to the civil war they're stuck in now. The unrest in the middle east never ended and carries on to this day. Libya's civil war is ongoing and while Syria's is over the country is left in ruins.


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## Syaoran Li (Dec 2, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> Occupy and the Arab Spring were coincidences. Occupy was a reaction to the 2008 recession, while the Arab Spring was a combination of decades of economic stagnation and bad weather. A drought in Syria had driven angry rural people into the cities, where they gathered to rebel in 2011. Given a lot of the revolutionaries were trying to introduce Islamist governments rather than socialist ones, it's safe to say the motivations were very different.
> 
> Notably, Yemen, an extremely poor country with little internet access, also had revolutions in 2011 and then 2015, the latter of which led to the civil war they're stuck in now. The unrest in the middle east never ended and carries on to this day. Libya's civil war is ongoing and while Syria's is over the country is left in ruins.



I think you're missing the point, I never said Occupy was connected to the Arab Spring. What I said was they both spread rapidly because of social media (barring the Yemen example but that's because the Middle Easy is notoriously unstable as you've said)

Occupy was a direct result of the Great Recession but what was interesting is that it coincided with the Arab Spring and the parallels the two otherwise unrelated and dissimilar protests did have in common were all because of social media and the role it played in organizing it.

That's why the corporations made sure that Occupy was snuffed out. Social media as a tool of activism was still a fairly new concept in 2011.


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## Pointless Pedant (Dec 2, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> I think you're missing the point, I never said Occupy was connected to the Arab Spring. What I said was they both spread rapidly because of social media (barring the Yemen example but that's because the Middle Easy is notoriously unstable as you've said)
> 
> Occupy was a direct result of the Great Recession but what was interesting is that it coincided with the Arab Spring and the parallels the two otherwise unrelated and dissimilar protests did have in common were all because of social media and the role it played in organizing it.
> 
> That's why the corporations made sure that Occupy was snuffed out. Social media as a tool of activism was still a fairly new concept in 2011.


The bigger problem with Occupy is that it didn't have any clear and specific demands. No Democratic congress critter could run on Occupy platform, because there wasn't really one other than a general desire for increased banking regulation. People like Sanders and AOC did run on similar platforms a few years later, but only once organisations like the DSA had actually made a formal platform for these proposals.


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## Syaoran Li (Dec 2, 2020)

Pointless Pedant said:


> The bigger problem with Occupy is that it didn't have any clear and specific demands. No Democratic congress critter could run on Occupy platform, because there wasn't really one other than a general desire for increased banking regulation. People like Sanders and AOC did run on similar platforms a few years later, but only once organisations like the DSA had actually made a formal platform for these proposals.



True, Occupy was too decentralized because it started out very "big tent" and nobody had a clear and specific goal, which is why it collapsed so quickly and why I think it was quickly infiltrated and coopted into the wider Woke Left of today. The AOC and DSA platforms is the same as the OWS one in its final moments after most of the actual working and middle class jumped ship and moved on


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## Pointless Pedant (Dec 2, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> True, Occupy was too decentralized because it started out very "big tent" and nobody had a clear and specific goal, which is why it collapsed so quickly and why I think it was quickly infiltrated and coopted into the wider Woke Left of today. The AOC and DSA platforms is the same as the OWS one in its final moments after most of the actual working and middle class jumped ship and moved on


The whole "Democrats would be right-wing in Europe!" nonsense started because back in the 2000s there weren't many far-left Democrats in Congress and the party was represented by centrists like Obama. The momentum from Occupy carried on to getting "The Squad" and Sanders to be household names, at which point saying that they're actually centrists became untenable. Biden, at the centrist end of the party, will end up deeply at odds with them.


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## Basil II (Dec 2, 2020)

Everyone who bitches about A&H is just salty about people disagreeing with them, I never see you fags talk about zoosadist threads in your arguments despite that also not being most people's idea of comedy.


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## Doctor Placebo (Dec 2, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> True, Occupy was too decentralized because it started out very "big tent" and nobody had a clear and specific goal, which is why it collapsed so quickly and why I think it was quickly infiltrated and coopted into the wider Woke Left of today. The AOC and DSA platforms is the same as the OWS one in its final moments after most of the actual working and middle class jumped ship and moved on


The Tea Party had the same problem on the right, and the alt right after them. The Tea Party, which started as an effort to unite everyone who opposed Obamacare, turned into a group for boomers to American Revolution LARP and share conspiracy theories before they moved on to Q-anon, while the alt right eventually got co-opted entirely by its white nationalist wing, just like OWS did with ancoms.

Grassroots movements have had a unity vs broad appeal problem for forever. They work best when focused on a single, highly specific goal that lots of different people can agree on. That's sort of the reason for Donald Trump's success. "Elect the candidate who will upset the Republican status quo, or the political status quo in general" was the goal in this case.


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## Pickle Dick (Dec 17, 2020)

Early snapshot of kiwifar ms (November 20, 2014):








'member jace?


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## Superman93's Bitch (Dec 17, 2020)

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the change happened because null was wanting to grow the site back in 2018 and started to interacted with those who are now 'internet famous' cows, particularly rekieta, ralph, and dick. Their fanbases are like a bad fungal infection. During the stream.me era, null was always happy about the site growing and would talk about how there were constantly records being broken regarding active users and site traffic. He doesn't talk about that anymore and I think he realized this was a mistake.

Also, the christchurch shooting being hosted is a huge factor in the culture shift. It was a dog whistle for every free speech absolutist that you could possibly shake a stick at.

That's really the only explanation for the political spergery rising up and infesting other areas of the site.


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## Dark Edea (Dec 17, 2020)

PESTPOOM said:


> I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that the change happened because null was wanting to grow the site back in 2018 and started to interacted with those who are now 'internet famous' cows, particularly rekieta, ralph, and dick. Their fanbases are like a bad fungal infection. During the stream.me era, null was always happy about the site growing and would talk about how there were constantly records being broken regarding active users and site traffic. He doesn't talk about that anymore and I think he realized this was a mistake.
> 
> Also, the christchurch shooting being hosted is a huge factor in the culture shift. It was a dog whistle for every free speech absolutist that you could possibly shake a stick at.
> 
> That's really the only explanation for the political spergery rising up and infesting other areas of the site.


I blame Jim.

Him getting cancer is proof.


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## DeadFish (Dec 17, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> The Revolutions of 1848 were one of those perfect storm occurrences and the 1989 Autumn of Nations hinged on a domino effect that resulted from the Soviet Union's terminal decline.
> 
> When you think about it, 1989 and 2011's sweeping waves of revolutions were both freak perfect storms that usually hinged on a specific X-factor or black swan event such as the decline of a superpower or the rise of social media.
> 
> ...


I and many others here agree with the occupy bit.

You said youre liberal again. Well to explain my view is I think the current situation requires new ways of thinking. Any ideal you can think of is an outdated solution. Ever seen idiotacrcy? Where the main guy tried to get people to water crops? And all they did was respond was "but thats what plants crave?" 

Thats the situation right now. People need to be shook up so that new and unprecedented ways of thinking can seep in. Cause what we got now aint working


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## Pickle Dick (Dec 29, 2020)

when @Nattō was known as Alan Pardew (and global mods were apparently purple instead of blue) (circa December 2016)


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## Pina Colada (Dec 30, 2020)

I blame A&H for turning the site into the dinner table at Thanksgiving and Christmas.


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## Overcast (Dec 30, 2020)

I miss when this site was a smaller and more tightly knit community. It was probably one of the very few sites where I didn't feel out of place.

Past few years things have been declining a bit. And now we have a bunch of doom posters and conspiracy theorists worrying about things that may or may not even happen. Not that I entirely blame how they feel, but it just gets kinda exhausting, especially with everything else going on right now.

Now with talks of the site potentially shutting down, I don't know what to feel. I just look back and remember most of the users that used to frequent here and how things have changed since they left.  Hope they're doing okay.


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## Pickle Dick (Mar 21, 2021)

Bumping this to go back to the CWCki Forums days in 2012, a year before the establishment of the current Kiwi Farms website



Spoiler: February 13 2012 (earliest accessible website version on Web Archive)











Spoiler: October 19 2012 (latest)








Of note, there are very few users I recognize on these two dates, including @DykesDykesChina (RIP) and @Invisible Crane.


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## Banditotron (Mar 21, 2021)

@Hollywood Hulk Hogan  used to be really cool and I thought he was fun but then trump gave him brain damage and now he's convinced that he's arguing with cultists online or something


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 21, 2021)

Really, the hyper-politicization of damn near everything in the past few years is what killed the culture of the Farms.

I joined at the start of 2017 right after the site reopened following the Vordrak shutdown incident and had lurked on and off for a few years before then to mostly follow Chris and Deagle Nation.

Keep in mind that "Current Year" was in full swing in 2017 and that it was arguably the peak year for the Woke Left until 2020 upped the ante massively.

Even then, the change between the site's culture then and now is still massive.

2017 KF was a lot more centrist/center-right or "chaotic neutral shitposter" in its overall mindset and a lot less polarized. You still had a lot of right-wingers but there were a lot fewer hardline /pol/ tards and unironic traditionalists compared to now.


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