# Do people really hate Christ?



## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 14, 2019)

Do people really hate the pretty simple and all loving teachings and methods of Jesus Christ or do people just hate how members of Christianity  and  other religions have warped it for their own needs? 

How can somebody hate love another and feeding 5, 000 people fish?  Am I missing something?


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## saisegeha (Jul 14, 2019)

People who hate Christ are either edgy teens or atheists who went through an "enlightenment" phase or got bullied at Christian Sunday school. 
I'm not Christian but I also don't hate Christ, I can respect the moral teachings even though I don't agree with all of it and it's hard to say how much of it was in the original Bible these days anyway, given how much time and edits it passed through since then.


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## Star Stuff (Jul 14, 2019)

saisegeha said:


> People who hate Christ are either edgy teens or atheists who went through an "enlightenment" phase or got bullied at Christian Sunday school.
> I'm not Christian but I also don't hate Christ, I can respect the moral teachings even though I don't agree with all of it and it's hard to say how much of it was in the original Bible these days anyway, given how much time and edits it passed through since then.


Anger takes effort and being angry at something that has no bearing on you is often not worth it for most people. As Sai mentioned here, most hatred of Christ or any divine entity comes from teenagers who need something to stand against or people who need to flex some self-conceived sense of intelligence. Most people of other beliefs or none at all are more than happy to coexist with Christianity as well as other systems as long as they don't inherently clash. CoughIslamCough.

It's also possible that Christianity is often bundled with Republicans and since it's becoming incredibly hip to have a worrying rageboner over the latter, it just extends to the former. I'm just spitballing now, though.


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## Autistsforuganda2 (Jul 14, 2019)

I am agnostic and am not a christian. But i can respect Christs moral teachings that he gave to this world.


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## Rice Is Ready (Jul 14, 2019)

I think that people just get annoyed when they're told that God and Jeebus are the solution to all of our earthly problems.


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## Exigent Circumcisions (Jul 14, 2019)

Some people will physically recoil if you mention Him. Take from that what you will.


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## Damn Near (Jul 14, 2019)

Jews absolutely despise Christ and Christians. Christians are fucking lame, but Jews....well, you know


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## Providence (Jul 14, 2019)

I loved Christ before your beefy mom ruined Him for me.  

She ruins everything.


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## PL 001 (Jul 14, 2019)

Not at all. I'm an agnostic, but there's quite a bit of good advice one can take from Jesus' teachings to live their life by, whether or not you happen to be religious. 

I don't hate most Christians either. Evangelical holy roller fundamentalists being the outlier group/schism that I can't stand


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## ES 148 (Jul 14, 2019)

I find it hilarious that some people argue that Jesus never existed, divine or no. As soon as someone says that you can pretty much just shut out all the ensuing inane rambling.


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## AF 802 (Jul 14, 2019)

Sofonda Cox said:


> I loved Christ before your beefy mom ruined Him for me.
> 
> She ruins everything.



How wide was Jésus's dick? I hear he had the biggest one in all of Mexico.

Before he hopped the fence, that is.


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## HoneyBadgersOfOats (Jul 14, 2019)

I don't hate Christ myself, the man has been dead for over 2000 years and it would really be silly to hate someone that's been gone that long. I'm just not to fond of modern day Christians. My main problem with them is most modern Christians don't live up to what they preach and barely even know their religion's own history, the bible it's self has been bastardized over the centuries and originally Romans came together decide on a proper version of it.

I was raised in a very extreme protestant household, very hypocritical one. Once I was old enough to decide for myself if I wanted to go to Church or not I ultimately decided to leave. I never felt anything spiritual through Christianity. I'm not really an atheist, and that's another thing if you admit you lean towards the theist side when your a former christian they scream that your just angry with god and you'll come back to your christian faith. I never really had faith in the first place with the Church nor in Christ.

Christianity seems like today a religion who's followers consist of convicts, ex-cons, single moms, dead beat dads, drug addicts, and former drug addicts. It's the jail get out of free card and the "who are you to judge me" religion. Least with Islam they take their shit seriously, usually. In Christianity they just slap people on the wrist if they stray from teachings and I feel most Christians don't actually take their religion as seriously as they say they do.

They just want something to make them feel better that they fucked up their lives and an explanation as to why they fucked up their lives rather than taking more responsibility for their own actions in life.


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## Providence (Jul 14, 2019)

Give Her The D said:


> How wide was Jésus's dick? I hear he had the biggest one in all of Mexico.
> 
> Before he hopped the fence, that is.


 It was the size of a goddamn Pringles can, OP's mom has been in hospital for six days.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 14, 2019)

Sofonda Cox said:


> I loved Christ before your beefy mom ruined Him for me.
> 
> She ruins everything.


Edgy as a butter knife


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## hambeerlyingnreed (Jul 14, 2019)

I think what most people hate are the people who act or speak on Jesus' behalf, like the people who say "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, hurhrr" or stand outside abortion clinics harassing people trying to access health care, all the while voting against social programs that help kids born in poverty. Or people who commit heinous acts and then act like it's okay because Jesus forgives them.

Personally, I don't hate Jesus any more than I do Allah or some other most likely mythical figurehead that promotes homophobia, sexism and racism more so than love and charity.


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## Sprig of Parsley (Jul 14, 2019)

More the fanclub than the man, in my case.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 14, 2019)

So without powerleveling here... I'm a Catholic and had periods where I didn't like it because of the bs and hypocrisy involved in the church. None of my friends from church stuck with it and became agnostic or SJWs with age.   I stuck with it and fully love it, yeah there is a lot that can be updated and even more that needs to reread the Four Gospels, but I never thought poorly of Christ.  Turning water into wine and feeding 5k people was just awesome to me. He even said to pay taxes and beat people in a synagogue. Dude was pretty tight 

I understand a lot of you for maturing out of your respected childhood religions with the state of things but respect you even more for your honesty. It does seem like most of the haters are retarded teenagers and edgelords and I do associate neckbeards/ dorky losers with hating religion without any form of justification 


Hey, better than Islam or Evangelicals       Thank you all for your input


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## Sped Xing (Jul 14, 2019)

It's my favorite curse word.


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## The best and greatest (Jul 14, 2019)

His name is Jesus not Christ. You only call him Christ if you believe him to be the son of god and savior of mankind.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 14, 2019)

Give Her The D said:


> How wide was Jésus's dick? I hear he had the biggest one in all of Mexico.
> 
> Before he hopped the fence, that is.


Which ICE center is he in?


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 14, 2019)

The best and greatest said:


> His name is Jesus not Christ. You only call him Christ if you believe him to be the son of god and savior of mankind.


I am Catholic if that explains anything


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## AF 802 (Jul 14, 2019)

Seregios (Att. at Law) said:


> Which ICE center is he in?



The concentration camp one.


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## The best and greatest (Jul 14, 2019)

Seregios (Att. at Law) said:


> I am Catholic if that explains anything


Fair enough.


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## ProgKing of the North (Jul 14, 2019)

He was a good dude who had some good teachings that have genuinely helped people. I just don't think he was the son of God or that his teachings are inherently better than anyone else's if they help somebody's life in a positive way.


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## Maltninja (Jul 14, 2019)

Terrible things have been done in his name. Sad, I suspect actual Jesus was a force for good. That rarest of types, kind and selfless.


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## FitBitch (Jul 14, 2019)

After all the mental abuse inflicted on me personally and the harassment my family faced from the Pentacostal Church growing up (crazy pastor, long story, it's not that interesting, just sad) it never occurred to me to be mad at Jesus, even as I was struggling between my fledgling atheism and my faltering Christianity. Christ didn't do anything to me, Christians did.


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## Slap47 (Jul 14, 2019)

It's kinda hard to hate a guy that I barely know anything about.

We know very little about Jesus despite all of the documentation. Most of that stuff was made after his death by people who never met him.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 14, 2019)

Apoth42 said:


> It's kinda hard to hate a guy that I barely know anything about.
> 
> We know very little about Jesus despite all of the documentation. Most of that stuff was made after his death by people who never met him.


That's true but I bet he was that cool guy with the long hair who was chill with everyone


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## UntimelyDhelmise (Jul 14, 2019)

Willing to bet a lot of Jesus/Christianity haters, at least in the West, were born and raised under the religion, were scorned one way or another (sexually abusive pastor, overly controlling/protective parents, ect.) and turned their backs the second they got the chance and blamed it on the Big Man.

I myself am one of those "loose" Christians where I still hold to the beliefs deep down, but outwardly I really just don't care anymore. Too much stupid shit happened in my past to still want anything to do with the matter, I just have a different kind of "beef" per se where I don't actively lash out and blame God or whatever (though I did for a time when I was younger and went though an edgy phase). It's more plain old apathy these days than anything else.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 15, 2019)

hambeerlyingnreed said:


> I think what most people hate are the people who act or speak on Jesus' behalf, like the people who say "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, hurhrr" or stand outside abortion clinics harassing people trying to access health care, all the while voting against social programs that help kids born in poverty. Or people who commit heinous acts and then act like it's okay because Jesus forgives them.
> 
> Personally, I don't hate Jesus any more than I do Allah or some other most likely mythical figurehead that promotes homophobia, sexism and racism more so than love and charity.


I don't see shit where Jesus promotes hate of any kind.  Do you have a set reference for this? I get what you're saying but Jesus Christ seems like a love all kinda guy


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## The best and greatest (Jul 15, 2019)

Seregios (Att. at Law) said:


> I don't see shit where Jesus promotes hate of any kind.  Do you have a set reference for this? I get what you're saying but Jesus Christ seems like a love all kinda guy


If I remember right there's some bit about killing those of other tribes or some such. Might clash with the traditionally peaceful/pacifistic view of Jesus but then this was also a time when Dynastic Empire was the go-to political paradigm, so if true I think it could be forgiven.


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## Niggernerd (Jul 15, 2019)

I'm not into religion but Christianity is the lesser of evils of Abrahamic religions. I don't hate it to say the least.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 15, 2019)

The best and greatest said:


> If I remember right there's some bit about killing those of other tribes or some such. Might clash with the traditionally peaceful/pacifistic view of Jesus but then this was also a time when Dynastic Empire was the go-to political paradigm, so if true I think it could be forgiven.


I would agree that it is just a reflection of Roman Empire era tribalism


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## hambeerlyingnreed (Jul 15, 2019)

Seregios (Att. at Law) said:


> I don't see shit where Jesus promotes hate of any kind.  Do you have a set reference for this? I get what you're saying but Jesus Christ seems like a love all kinda guy



I'm thinking more of things that God has said or done, but if you believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost all being one being versus seperate entities, there really is no difference.


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## Seregios (Att. at Law) (Jul 15, 2019)

hambeerlyingnreed said:


> I'm thinking more of things that God has said or done, but if you believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost all being one being versus seperate entities, there really is no difference.


I get what you're saying. I really wish that Book of Levititcus was cut out in the New Testament. Would have prevented so many problems


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## The Reaper (Jul 15, 2019)

I hope people who “hate Christ” don’t actually hate Him, rather those who might follow him or the cultural impact He caused. It’s silly to imagine some edgy atheist having some bad luck and muttering under his breath “fuck you Jesus.” That would be levels of exceptionalism I can’t fathom.


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## X-Shaped Weeaboo (Jul 15, 2019)

Streetlight Stranger said:


> It’s silly to imagine some edgy atheist having some bad luck and muttering under his breath “fuck you Jesus.” That would be levels of exceptionalism I can’t fathom.



Oh do I have some unfortunate stories for you and no, I'm not grinning about it either. I genuinely get upset whenever people blame God or Jesus for their misfortunes in life as I truly believe there is no greater sense of victimhood than to blame your woes on a being you don't even believe exists. 

I participate in a lot of community work and that puts me within earshot of a lot of stories regarding Christianity and Catholicism. I have my opinions on both, but as far as a "general consensus" kind of thing, from my experience, the people who hate Jesus and God are typically people with a chip on their shoulder. Most people who aren't believers are indifferent to religion as a whole, and it usually takes some type of resentment or sense of superiority for people to develop an active negative reaction to him.


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## Zaryiu (Jul 24, 2019)

HoneyBadgersOfOats said:


> I don't hate Christ myself, the man has been dead for over 2000 years and it would really be silly to hate someone that's been gone that long. I'm just not to fond of modern day Christians. My main problem with them is most modern Christians don't live up to what they preach and barely even know their religion's own history, the bible it's self has been bastardized over the centuries and originally Romans came together decide on a proper version of it.
> 
> I was raised in a very extreme protestant household, very hypocritical one. Once I was old enough to decide for myself if I wanted to go to Church or not I ultimately decided to leave. I never felt anything spiritual through Christianity. I'm not really an atheist, and that's another thing if you admit you lean towards the theist side when your a former christian they scream that your just angry with god and you'll come back to your christian faith. I never really had faith in the first place with the Church nor in Christ.
> 
> ...


Well that's not entirely fair, there are many Christians who take the religion seriously (i don't mean fundamentalists or similar groups) who try their hardest to live a decent live according to the teachings while not shoving it down others faces and religious authorities reactions to people committing what is defined as sins vary from branch (i mean like Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Coptic etc) to branch, inside every branch and priest to priest (someone i know had a grandfather who was excommunicated from the whole church he was a member of (i refer to the branch stuff i mentionned earlier when i say this) for cheating on his wife for quite a while among other things while for example in the Catholic church he might have only got a slap on his wrist


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jul 25, 2019)

Nobody hates "christ" because you have to believe he's literally the son of god to call Jesus 'Christ'. If you believe that you probably don't hate him.

Its hard to believe anyone really hates a 2000 year old dude who was basically a proto-hippie.  His anti-wealth stuff was kinda weird, but the whole be nice to everyone is hard to be mad at.

I will say I recoil at hearing His name, or even just the capital H in His, because that means I'm talking to a true believer who is going to lecture me on some really stale and poorly thought out 'proofs' that their religion is real.

I also recoil at hearing Mohammed, Allah, "The good news", or "Would you sign my petition?". It means someone is trying to preach some nonsense at me.


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## AF 802 (Jul 25, 2019)

I'd say a good amount of Kiwis are probably atheist cause lolfairytale, anyway.


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## ApatheticViewer (Jul 26, 2019)

As an Atheist I've always admired the whole myth. I love all the cool symbols and the mythology. I dig the art and the architectural beauty of cathedrals and Latin sermons are so pleasant.


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## Emperor Julian (Jul 26, 2019)

It's very hard to actually pin anything down on him due to the difficulties with where his actual life and thoughts begin and where Paul's/ ancient bishops start. It gets worse when we consider what might be misatributed or just plain made up. He only really exists as an abstract to project onto. Anything you hate about him is something which is articulated by someone else or is projected onto him by yourself.
You may as well skip the bullshit and just resent parental/authority figures you actually interact with.


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## UQ 770 (Jul 26, 2019)

I'm stealing from comedians again but I have to question if even the edgiest fedora atheist hates Christ as much as the people _who use the device he died horrifically on as their main fucking symbol of peace_. 

You think that's why he hasn't come back?
"No Dad, I'm not goin' down there again, look at all the crosses they didn't get it!"


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## Basil II (Jul 26, 2019)

HoneyBadgersOfOats said:


> I don't hate Christ myself, the man has been dead for over 2000 years and it would really be silly to hate someone that's been gone that long. I'm just not to fond of modern day Christians. My main problem with them is most modern Christians don't live up to what they preach and barely even know their religion's own history, the bible it's self has been bastardized over the centuries and originally Romans came together decide on a proper version of it.
> 
> I was raised in a very extreme protestant household, very hypocritical one. Once I was old enough to decide for myself if I wanted to go to Church or not I ultimately decided to leave. I never felt anything spiritual through Christianity. I'm not really an atheist, and that's another thing if you admit you lean towards the theist side when your a former christian they scream that your just angry with god and you'll come back to your christian faith. I never really had faith in the first place with the Church nor in Christ.
> 
> ...


>least in Islam they take their shit seriously
 like muslims give a shit about Ramadan or not drinking alcohol.


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## DDBCAE CBAADCBE (Jul 26, 2019)

I'm an anti-theist personally. I don't hate religion or anything, in fact a lot of my friends are some denomination of Christian but I definitely think religion in it's many forms is ultimately harmful to the world. Ironically I actually really love religious history and can get pretty obsessive about reading the original translations over the newer bastardizations.

That is to say that while I don't necessarily believe that the figure and feats commonly associated with Jesus was a single person and thereby don't believe in Jesus, I'm sure that if I did believe he had existed at some point that I wouldn't hate him.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jul 26, 2019)

You say this was a man of peace but he still felt it was just and right that he should roast babies eternally for the sin of having been born and not having had water poured over their head in his name. Or that consensual sex deserves again, unending and eternal torture. You have no logically consistent ground to criticize the freaks like the zoosadists while likewise claiming this is justice.

I have no respect for death cults of any flavour;they're all false, their proponents are at best deluded and at worst charlatans and all preach doctrine that at the core despite the claims of moral superiority are nothing short of fucking depraved. They deserve scorn and ridicule.

Tl;dr: I view you the same way I view dog fuckers and their white knights. Depraved and barbaric.


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## Basil II (Jul 26, 2019)

ITT: Theologically illiterate fedoralords.


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## Bum Driller (Jul 26, 2019)

I certainly don't hate the witch-king of Jews, although I haven't been baptized in his name. In contrary, I do recognize his skill in understanding the truth, however hamfistedly he might have communicated it to his disciples. And overall I can't help but wonder at what he must have thought, when he set those disciples on their quest to conquer the world.


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## UQ 770 (Jul 26, 2019)

I made a joke about this earlier but you do really have to view this sort of thing psychologically sometimes. When you create a movement where the Lord and Savior died in total agony and misery and then make the image of a human being suffering in torment on a ratty piece of wood your symbol people are going to be averse to it. I'm fully aware of the metaphors involved. I'm fully aware of the logic involved. I know all of the ways its been attributed to the human condition and all of the ways its been interpreted over the years. 

Some kids just respond badly to the image of a man who's been nailed up and had a bunch of spearholes punched into his guts is all I'm saying.


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## 2hufag (Jul 26, 2019)

Catholic turned atheist here.  I never hated Jesus at any point, though I don't think he's important anymore and I'll roll my eyes if somebody insists to me that he is.

Now God I used to be really mad at in my angry teenage years breaking away from the church, but that was a result of being forced by my parents to kiss his non-existent ass.  Now that I don't go to church and don't need to think about him constantly, I can treat him as the distant fictional figure I believe him to be instead of somebody to blame.

Maybe those that are pissed at Christ/God are just being pressure cooked by their peers or parents like I used to be.  For me they're irrelevant now, and so I don't feel anything at all.

Sorry if this is too high of a powerlevel.  I'm fresh so I can't tell where the boundaries are sometimes.


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## JimmyHill'sBlarms (Jul 26, 2019)

I don't think people hate Jesus so much as they hate the crazy motherfuckers who do stupid shit in his name.


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## Aumis Graham (Jul 26, 2019)

Of course people truthfully hate him, all the way on the long journey down to hell they probably especially hate him.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jul 27, 2019)

Basil II said:


> ITT: Theologically illiterate fedoralords.



Do you deny that Jesus/God created a place of eternal torment, continues to sustain it and endorses its use in the torture of anyone who did not have water poured over their head in his name as well as the vast majority who did for a random list of "offenses"?

Do you believe that this is a good man to be idolized and praised?


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## Basil II (Jul 27, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> Do you deny that Jesus/God created a place of eternal torment, continues to sustain it and endorses its use in the torture of anyone who did not have water poured over their head in his name as well as the vast majority who did for a random list of "offenses"?
> 
> Do you believe that this is a good man to be idolized and praised?


No because that's Dante's fanfiction that got popularized as actual theology despite having nothing to do with it, Heaven and Hell are the same place, where one experiences the full presence of God. This presence is experienced as either suffering or paradise depending on the spiritual alignment of the person with God. Someone who rejects God experiences it as torment. Hell wasn't made by God, it's simply a possible spiritual state of someone after death.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jul 27, 2019)

Basil II said:


> No because that's Dante's fanfiction that got popularized as actual theology despite having nothing to do with it, Heaven and Hell are the same place, where one experiences the full presence of God. This presence is experienced as either suffering or paradise depending on the spiritual alignment of the person with God. Someone who rejects God experiences it as torment. Hell wasn't made by God, it's simply a possible spiritual state of someone after death.



I can see this becoming quite a lengthy conversation, and perhaps one not best suited for this thread; you Orthodox are fairly unusual in beliving in all being in the presence of God despite passages such as 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Matthew 13:50, Mark 9:43 Revelation 21:8 among others that describes an entirely separate world of fire in which those present do not partake in the Beatific vision. Though it's one I am open to having elsewhere.

Perhaps I should focus more on the actions and words and beliefs we ascribe to Jesus of Nazareth; to describe a small list of his beliefs and doings.....

-Killing plants for not blooming out of the season they were created by him to bloom in. It's consistent at least, considering he punishes and witholds graces from those whom he creates with traits and predilections that displease him (such as gays, women with a desire for leadership etc)
-Casting evil spirits into animals and then driving them off cliffs. Why is violence against humans including children (such as the divine bear attack within 2 Kings 2:23-5) and animals necessary for a man with the unlimited divine/supernatural powers who can bend and reshape all existence as he desires?
-Despite all the things Jesus found time to condemn, he never once found it to condemn slavery and the men who followed him all fully endorsed it.
-Jesus openly admits he wants to cause disorder and violence as well as turn families against each other (Matthew 10:34-36)
-Jesus frequently told lies


Spoiler: A sample



*1) * _And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen.  “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” _ (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)


*2) *_ Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened._ (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)


*3) * _Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst._ (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)


*4) * _ Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours._ (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)


*5) * _ And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened._ (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)


*6) * _And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. _ (John 14:13-14 NAB)


*7) * _If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. _(John 15:7 NAB)


** _It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you._ (John 15:16 NAB)


*9) * _ On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. _(John 16:23-24 NAB)


I'm sure by the standards of the day he was possibly not the worst man around, perhaps even rather enlightened in comparison; however one thing he did remain constant if the four accepted gospels are to be believed at face value; Jesus aspired to be a tyrant in the truest sense of the word. His orders no matter how contradictory, nonsensical or dangerous were to be followed lest unending wrath and violence be poured upon you not merely in the next world, but this one as well.

Yes. He healed people; of diseases which if he is to be believed as being a deity he created because  your indescribably distant great x99999999 grandmother ate an apple and afflicted people with, and healed as a piece of staged theater so he could show what an awesome man he was. Missing the fact he could have stopped leprosy, epilepsy, blindness etc eons ago if not never created in the first place.

I don't see a man, regardless of his claims being real or not, who either way believed he was the tyrant of tyrants and both the source and cure of what amounts in the hands of a creator horrific biological weapons of being someone to like.

Fear certainly if he was what he claimed, but like or love? Hardly. I don't hate the popular imagining of Jesus in the same way I don't hate other characters of historical fiction, but even just picking out a handful of his other attributes he's hard to find likeable_._

Would most people post apostolic age have liked Jesus if a large majority didn't believe he or his devotees were going to go full 13 year old Sims player and burn them and their loved ones if they thought otherwise?


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## NoBully (Jul 27, 2019)

People not liking a Jew? When did this start happening!? Oy Vey.


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## Incompetent (Jul 27, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> words


so the tl;dr version of this is: "i don't like god because he does things i don't like and i know better than him"?


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Jul 27, 2019)

People don't usually have the decency to hate Christianity for what it actually is, but it's possible to do it. Nietzsche did. He said that Christians held a slave morality, something that glorified weakness rather than strength, so people start to strive after weakness. This ends in the weak tearing down the strong and the world becoming sad and pathetic.

That's an oversimplification of a complex issue, but he's not entirely wrong. The Farms documents enough victim culture to show that.

But most people who hate Jesus are just fedora tippers.


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## c-no (Jul 27, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> You say this was a man of peace but he still felt it was just and right that he should roast babies eternally for the sin of having been born and not having had water poured over their head in his name. Or that consensual sex deserves again, unending and eternal torture. You have no logically consistent ground to criticize the freaks like the zoosadists while likewise claiming this is justice.
> 
> I have no respect for death cults of any flavour;they're all false, their proponents are at best deluded and at worst charlatans and all preach doctrine that at the core despite the claims of moral superiority are nothing short of fucking depraved. They deserve scorn and ridicule.
> 
> Tl;dr: I view you the same way I view dog fuckers and their white knights. Depraved and barbaric.


So you view the Kiwis that believe GodJesus to be depraved barbarians? On one hand, okay that'll get a euphoric fedora but on the other had, that sounds pretty damn metal.



Emperor Julian said:


> It's very hard to actually pin anything down on him due to the difficulties with where his actual life and thoughts begin and where Paul's/ ancient bishops start. It gets worse when we consider what might be misatributed or just plain made up. He only really exists as an abstract to project onto. Anything you hate about him is something which is articulated by someone else or is projected onto him by yourself.
> You may as well skip the bullshit and just resent parental/authority figures you actually interact with.


The system itself began very differently from what it was today and without a doubt, much of the early believers would differ as well. If anything, the hatred would be more on authority figures and parents. One can't really be made at God and Jesus so much as the concept or perception of them in relation to how one responds to the text, and the text itself can be fucked when considering translations and what they really mean. And this all comes from a guy that unironically believes in a Jewish man who died on a piece of wood and rose back from the dead.



Lord of the Large Pants said:


> People don't usually have the decency to hate Christianity for what it actually is, but it's possible to do it. Nietzsche did. He said that Christians held a slave morality, something that glorified weakness rather than strength, so people start to strive after weakness. This ends in the weak tearing down the strong and the world becoming sad and pathetic.
> 
> That's an oversimplification of a complex issue, but he's not entirely wrong. The Farms documents enough victim culture to show that.
> 
> But most people who hate Jesus are just fedora tippers.


In regards to Nietzsche, it wouldn't be much of just the stories or ideology so much as well as how it could give one a certain life style. Then again, there are other systems Nietzsche could take problems with if they also looked down on the concept of revenge. All that said, the kind that would sperg hard in how they hate Jesus would be fedora tippers, especially those that try to argue that they are more logical when logic doesn't mean you're free of being raging tard who can be as irrational as others in how they respond.


----------



## GarthMarenghisDankplace (Jul 27, 2019)

I feel the same about Jesus as I do Rick and Morty. Dude himself had some cool ideas but the rabbid stans in the cringey fandom kind of put me off.


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## ProgKing of the North (Jul 27, 2019)

I feel like to actually hate Christ you'd have to both believe the Bible/Christianity that He is the Son of God and all that entails, but still reject his teachings. I don't feel like that's particularly common except maybe among a handful of edgy wannabe Satanists.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jul 27, 2019)

Incompetent said:


> so the tl;dr version of this is: "i don't like god because he does things i don't like and i know better than him"?



Looking around at the world around me, all the disease, famine, violence and strife that this omnipotent God simply doesn't stop but custom-designed by his own all seeing will....Could I do better if I had that power?

Yes. Yes I could. I could design a world in which rape was not possible. That alone would make it better.

Your deity is a douche.



c-no said:


> So you view the Kiwis that believe GodJesus to be depraved barbarians? On one hand, okay that'll get a euphoric fedora but on the other had, that sounds pretty damn metal.



I view them as ignorant at best, not knowing or understanding the dogma they follow. Those who do I view as either mentally incompetent or malicious if they follow any of the Abrahamic religions (as well as others, my distaste is not limited to them).

That does not mean I hate believers, but it does make me more wary of them. There is no other context in which belief in the justness of roasting people for not having water poured over their head in the name of one man is socially acceptable historically let alone today.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jul 31, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> Looking around at the world around me, all the disease, famine, violence and strife that this omnipotent God simply doesn't stop but custom-designed by his own all seeing will....Could I do better if I had that power?
> 
> Yes. Yes I could. I could design a world in which rape was not possible. That alone would make it better.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the true believers don't seem to believe in their own claims of an omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient god.  He knows everything, but still punishes the humans he created for doing what he knew they'd do. Oh but wait, it's their fault because they were tricked by an evil angel god created...

"The problem of evil" is extremely basic, but also completely guts any claim that the Judaeo-christian god exists and is all powerful, all knowing, and all good. At the very least, one has to redefine "good" to include things that human beings generally consider "not good", like pain, suffering, etc.

At least the old timey polytheistic religions just said "Oh yeah, the gods are fucking huge dicks. But they're bigger and stronger than us, so we have to avoid pissing them off too much".


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## Autocrat (Jul 31, 2019)

It seems Jesus is a false Christ.


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## joseantonio (Aug 1, 2019)

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."


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## Slap47 (Aug 1, 2019)

Basil II said:


> No because that's Dante's fanfiction that got popularized as actual theology despite having nothing to do with it, Heaven and Hell are the same place, where one experiences the full presence of God. This presence is experienced as either suffering or paradise depending on the spiritual alignment of the person with God. Someone who rejects God experiences it as torment. Hell wasn't made by God, it's simply a possible spiritual state of someone after death.



The largest sects of Christianity include:

The Catholics
The Jehovas/7th day Adventists
The Mormons
The Communist Party of China's official Protestant Church
The Anglicans

They all believe in that stuff to some extent so I don't see how its wrong to recognize that clusterfuck of circles as Christian.


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## Red Hood (Aug 1, 2019)

Maltninja said:


> Terrible things have been done in his name. Sad, I suspect actual Jesus was a force for good. That rarest of types, kind and selfless.


The same can be said of all religions.

But enough talk, have at you!


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## Michael Wade (Apr 29, 2021)

Dildo said:


> Looking around at the world around me, all the disease, famine, violence and strife that this omnipotent God simply doesn't stop but custom-designed by his own all seeing will....Could I do better if I had that power?
> 
> Yes. Yes I could. I could design a world in which rape was not possible. That alone would make it better.
> 
> ...


Im sorry to give this late a reply, but I couldn't help but be moved to talk after reading it.

The thing that most people dont understand about god and by extension Jesus, is why suffering exists.    And the truth  is that without suffering, without giving people the choice to do evil over good.   There would be no free will. 

Free will is the most important part of our lives.  Without it, there would be no reason to live  and we would not be able to define ourselves.   You take away rape completely and you either take away the ability to have sex or people's free will.    Happiness and good would have no meaning. We would be robots little better then angels.  

God can soften or harden our hearts. He can bring out the best or worst in what's already in our hearts, but he will not "make" us do anything.  There are rules to the universe, rules we cannot see and understand that are for our long term benefit.


I read something recently that changed my entire perspective of sin and heaven.   Where sin was described as a Virus that gets stronger the more we do it, corrupting our very body's and souls..... Ive seen enough things on this site to know that is the truth.   Sin is a natural consequence of free will, and you simply cannot have one without the other. 

God wants us all in heaven, but heaven cannot exist with sin in it.  Sin would perish in the presence of god.   With all that in mind, old testement god seems less like wrathful god and more like a parent who is trying to scare his children straight, but in the long run that didn't work.   So he sent Jesus as an anchor to protect our souls from sin.  Its simply up to us to believe and trust in him.  




I think the question most people should ask themselves is why did god create us and by extension the universe?  

And another equally wonderful question is if god can see and know everything, can he close his eyes on the future we will pick? Can he choose not to know what we will finally do to preserve our free will?


----------



## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Apr 29, 2021)

I don't think anyone really hates him but they do hate a lot of his followers who do the exact opposite of what he said to do


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## Just Another Apocalypse (Apr 29, 2021)

Seregios (Att. at Law) said:


> Do people really hate the pretty simple and all loving teachings and methods of Jesus Christ or do people just hate how members of Christianity  and  other religions have warped it for their own needs?
> 
> How can somebody hate love another and feeding 5, 000 people fish?  Am I missing something?


the last sentence is confusing.

However, do i personally hate Christ? No, do i love him? Nope. Jesus is just alright with me...

Jesus died for somebody's sins... But not mine.

He's inspired a fuck load of great art, tho. Any Islamic rock bands as great as the greatest Christ rock band of all time Black Sabbath?


----------



## Queen Elizabeth II (Apr 29, 2021)

Michael Wade said:


> Im sorry to give this late a reply, but I couldn't help but be moved to talk after reading it.
> 
> The thing that most people dont understand about god and by extension Jesus, is why suffering exists.    And the truth  is that without suffering, without giving people the choice to do evil over good.   There would be no free will.




Not too late at all don't worry. It's a topic I enjoy talking about. I probably should wait till I'm more rested to answer this but a few ramblings while I'm half asleep.

There's three basic problems with this premise of free will not existing (among others, but I'll lead with these three).

The first being that a God, who is all powerful has created a world in which a binary of good and evil exists at all. God, who is all good, has created either directly or indirectly something wholly anthetical to his whole being.

There's also the other side of this that if he is all good, every single day things occur that God doesn't intervene in to mitigate or stop. If we accept your premise that suffering is necessary to allow people to do good (ignoring the idea that good can be done via improvement or ascension, not necessarily stopping immanent bad things), some people don't get a chance to do either. The man who his stabbed for his walet, the child who is ran over by a hit and run driver. These people don't get a chance to do good, they just get to be a victim.

There's also the problem with "Free will" itself. To make a free choice, surely a choice must be made without coercion or threat right? Can it be said humans have a choice when they are posed with a choice to follow the dictates of a religion or be roasted to death forever and ever? If they are, we must accept that the Americans were truely free under the British who insisted they pay exhorbitant tax or face the wrath of his majesties armies.



Michael Wade said:


> Free will is the most important part of our lives.  Without it, there would be no reason to live  and we would not be able to define ourselves.   You take away rape completely and you either take away the ability to have sex or people's free will.    Happiness and good would have no meaning. We would be robots little better then angels.



It's funny you say that, because isn't that what happens when a human successfully obtains salvation, beholds the beatific vision or is enraptured. The lingo may vary, but the ideal is the same isn't it? Being reunited with God in heaven.

Thomas Aquinas explained in the summa why the saints don't care for the damned, and why saints don't mourn for their relatives who are in hell. Once in heaven, the will of a human is in total alignment with God. They feel exactly the same way as he does about heaven. There is no sadness in heaven, there is no rebellion, there's also no questioning or indeed ability to change. There are no choices at all actually, the saved are wholly reprogammed into robots. Worse than angels actually, because apparently one particuarly infamous angel did rebel with his cronies to quite dramatic effect!

The highest ideal in the abrahamic faith is to shed ones ego and free will, so that ones own will is perfectly aligned with that of God is it not? Free will doesn't seem very highly prized at all, and seems more a temptation into damnation than anything else from this standpoint.



Michael Wade said:


> God can soften or harden our hearts. He can bring out the best or worst in what's already in our hearts, but he will not "make" us do anything.  There are rules to the universe, rules we cannot see and understand that are for our long term benefit.



But he does. He threatens us directly with his unending wrath for failing to do what he wants.

He also creates a world in which his creations are tortured on a daily basis, and for some the only promise of relief in death is merely a gateway to a whole new level of suffering or in the very best case scenario as mentioned above; oblivion via the total loss of self in heaven.

Can God make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it? Is God bound to certain laws of the universe? If there is something, anything at all, that God cannot do; he can't possibly be omnipotent. If there's something God could do to help humanity, but he choses not to then he isn't omnibenevolent. Is he neither able, nor is he willing? Then is he divine at all?

This isn't a problem the Abrahamic God alone has, Epicurus' riddle was problematic for devotees of Neoplatonism and Imperial era Mystery Cult deities long before Yahweh took centre stage.


Michael Wade said:


> I read something recently that changed my entire perspective of sin and heaven.   Where sin was described as a Virus that gets stronger the more we do it, corrupting our very body's and souls..... Ive seen enough things on this site to know that is the truth.   Sin is a natural consequence of free will, and you simply cannot have one without the other.



But we don't have free will at all in the current set up. If I put a big cake in front of you, and tell you I'm going to stab one of your relatives to death if you eat the cake, have you really had a "free" choice to eat the cake or not?

This is before we even get into contexts and scenarios; i.e: "Murder is always wrong but if I'd killed Hitler I could save millions" etc.



Michael Wade said:


> God wants us all in heaven, but heaven cannot exist with sin in it.  Sin would perish in the presence of god.   With all that in mind, old testement god seems less like wrathful god and more like a parent who is trying to scare his children straight, but in the long run that didn't work.   So he sent Jesus as an anchor to protect our souls from sin.  Its simply up to us to believe and trust in him.



I don't know if you're a parent or not, but are you in the habit of murdering your children if they do something you don't like? Floods, Israelite armies, plagues....How can the children learn anything when they're dead? Moreover, what about all the goyim peoples who didn't even ever learn why they were being slaughtered because they'd never even heard of the God of Israel or what he wanted?

Also, sin can't exist in heaven yeah? Whose choice was that? God has decided what sin is, and has invented sin as a concept. If he's all powerful, he could make sin cease to exist but he chooses not to, and chooses to keep it cast out and infecting his flock at the same time.

Unless he didn't create sin, and he isn't able to stop it...At which point, he isn't omnipotent?

This is something from what we can glean from late antiquity the last of the pagans, such as the Academy at Athens or Hypatia in Alexandria, used to debate about and why many of them couldn't accept the Abrahamic deity. It's very, very hard to be monotheistic and rationalise this being as being always good all the time when so much evil is around; you either need a lesser deity of darkness like Satan or the Demiurge of the Gnostics to be an antagonist, or multiple deities of which some may be good, others bad or a bit of both at different times.

Hence why the problem of evil just didn't really exist for Polytheists and is a uniquely monotheist issue.



Michael Wade said:


> I think the question most people should ask themselves is why did god create us and by extension the universe?



Who knows? Why did I burn so many hours in my younger years on The Sims making rooms full of fireplaces on rugs to roast my pixel doillies to death?

Twisted amusement in my case. Mileage may vary.



Michael Wade said:


> And another equally wonderful question is if god can see and know everything, can he close his eyes on the future we will pick? Can he choose not to know what we will finally do to preserve our free will?



If he is omniscient then no, because an omniscient being by necessity must know all things. If there is something, anything at all, they don't know they can't by definition be all seeing.

If he is omnibenevolent then no, because if I saw my child outside playing with a gun and didn't intervene that would be criminal negligence. For a higher being like a deity, to sit back and not intervene when their "child" is in immanent danger of unending torment or very real immediate pain...Why do we hold ourselves to a higher standard than deities?

If he is omnipotent then probably, because it's immaterial if we obey or not. His seat is secure and there is no risk whatsoever of being ejected from it. His other qualities could impinge on this freedom however, as if he was omnibenevolent he would be forced to remain focused on it to prevent evil being done and his power would be required to enforce it.


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## Michael Wade (Apr 30, 2021)

Dildo said:


> Not too late at all don't worry. It's a topic I enjoy talking about. I probably should wait till I'm more rested to answer this but a few ramblings while I'm half asleep.
> 
> There's three basic problems with this premise of free will not existing (among others, but I'll lead with these three).
> 
> ...


I appreciate how you've come at me with interesting points of consideration.

I believe first off, that while god is good,  he's created a universe with rules. and that everything that develops in that universe is shaped by  its experiences under those rules.   You assume that god has created sin intentionally to wound, but Adam and Eve ate that apple.  It's either the truth or a metaphor, but God did not originally want us to have sin. Unfortunately it comes with free will. It's a package deal and to change it would be to change the very rules and fabric of the universe.  I believe those rules were put in place for an unfathomable but logical long term reason.   

And your also assuming that innocent victims who die dont get  the ultimate reward for their suffering.  That they dont get to go to heaven for having their lives interrupted and ended.  I believe the biggest hurdle to be had is from death is simply accepting it in our lives.

As I understand and believe,  It's not that god wants or forces us to suffer.  It's that a person who is permeated with sin cannot enter heaven.  Sin is just.... automatically devoured in god and heaven's presence.   If a person has sinned and truly repented then there is hope. We can argue about if god would let Hitler in to heaven if he repented, but that kind of person could never accept or take responsibility for their actions.  The first step to god and heaven is admitting we've done and were wrong. 


As I understand it, to free us of pain our memory's of the dammed are erased when we go up to heaven.  You can debate that this is immoral, but all of our baggage has to be taken off us when we get up there.  And the truth is we have no  idea what heaven is like, but I believe its a place where you see all that is unseen, were you get to be productive in making and viewing  all the arts of the mind and have the choice of what to enjoy and who to converse with everyday.  Heaven is everything good that can and cannot be found on earth.   I heard you can still have arguments up there and as long as that is true there is nothing to be afraid of losing.

Yeah, he did threaten us a lot. In the old testament, when humanity was first developing and barbarism was the norm.  "God's laws where written on stone by man, but god's laws are a living thing".  People look at the words of god and see them as completely inflexible, but if that is so then why did he send Jesus to lighten our burdens?  To me, It feels less like god puts down these laws and commandments to punish us, and more like god put them down so that in following them we may lead a truly happy life.    look at most of the people followed on the farms.  They lead lives of sin. And as time as showed us again and again, it has not brought them beauty or lasting happiness.   Who are those who are the most happy and satisfied with themselves?  The rich man who lives off physical substance is always missing something.


When a people.. when all a people in those olden times knows is the value of violence. you have to speak to them in the language of violence.  And when a people, knows the value of peace as they did in the Pax Romana. You speak to them of peace.    There is the old testament, and there is the new.  There is a sense of progression in gods tone with his children.  And this is something many seem to miss.
​It's interesting to talk about, but I firmly believe that god is something and someone we cannot fully understand and define by human terms.


I admit that I am no great debater or theologist, but Im glad I can talk about how I understand my faith with you.


Dennis Prager had quite possibly the most wonderful interpretation and understanding of old testament Genesis and Exodus ive ever seen.  It influenced a lot about how I see god.  The rational bible he called it.


----------



## SouthernBitchBob (Apr 30, 2021)

There was something that nagged me about Christianity. For all his faults, listening to talks from Big Bad Hitchens finally clicked it for me: I don't believe scapegoating is moral. I'm not personally relieved by the idea of Jesus offering to "take my sins", because they're mine. You can't make it not my fault; you can't say I didn't do it. The person (or persons) I've wronged get to choose whether to forgive me or not, _even if that person is me_. I don't get to say "nope, God gets to step in and make it his job to offer forgiveness here". Nobody gets to torture and murder an innocent person and claim it pays for all their wrongdoing. Scapegoating is the ultimate negation of responsibility. Now, I'm capable of fully understanding the religious reason _why_ God is an exception to this rule and just fundamentally disagreeing with it.


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## murdered meat bag (Apr 30, 2021)

SouthernBitchBob said:


> There was something that nagged me about Christianity. For all his faults, listening to talks from Big Bad Hitchens finally clicked it for me: I don't believe scapegoating is moral. I'm not personally relieved by the idea of Jesus offering to "take my sins", because they're mine. You can't make it not my fault; you can't say I didn't do it. The person (or persons) I've wronged get to choose whether to forgive me or not, _even if that person is me_. I don't get to say "nope, God gets to step in and make it his job to offer forgiveness here". Nobody gets to torture and murder an innocent person and claim it pays for all their wrongdoing. Scapegoating is the ultimate negation of responsibility. Now, I'm capable of fully understanding the religious reason _why_ God is an exception to this rule and just fundamentally disagreeing with it.


Your sins are still your own, as well as your penence. That doesnt magically go away. 

Instead of offering sacrificing at the temple at various points every trangression, asking the priest to mediate atonement and doing almsgiving, a permanent sacrifice has been made, so you can go seek atonement and almsgiving. 

If you grew up a "faith not works" prot, the necessity of the old testament sacrfice is skipped that leads to the "scapegoat is abandonment of responsibility".


----------



## murdered meat bag (Apr 30, 2021)

Dildo said:


> Not too late at all don't worry. It's a topic I enjoy talking about. I probably should wait till I'm more rested to answer this but a few ramblings while I'm half asleep.
> 
> There's three basic problems with this premise of free will not existing (among others, but I'll lead with these three).
> 
> ...


if you assume the premise " you can either follow the dictates of a religion or be roasted to death" is true,  you see that people still choose to be roasted to death and ignore the dictates. so the choice is undetermined.  that said, If god (not specifically the Christian God) exists, then there's already a binary: god and not god. If god created the notion of goodness then there's a binary of oodness and not goodness. if you accept the premise that god is uncreated, then not god is also uncreated. in the same manner you can that  not goodness is also uncreated. 

As for the man who was stabbed and the child who was run over, they still had chances to do good before they died. their fate as a victim doesn't preclude that fact.
in Christian terms, you wait for the bridegroom with your lantern and oil prepared because you don't know when He will come.


Dildo said:


> It's funny you say that, because isn't that what happens when a human successfully obtains salvation, beholds the beatific vision or is enraptured. The lingo may vary, but the ideal is the same isn't it? Being reunited with God in heaven.
> 
> Thomas Aquinas explained in the summa why the saints don't care for the damned, and why saints don't mourn for their relatives who are in hell. Once in heaven, the will of a human is in total alignment with God. They feel exactly the same way as he does about heaven. There is no sadness in heaven, there is no rebellion, there's also no questioning or indeed ability to change. There are no choices at all actually, the saved are wholly reprogammed into robots. Worse than angels actually, because apparently one particuarly infamous angel did rebel with his cronies to quite dramatic effect!
> 
> The highest ideal in the abrahamic faith is to shed ones ego and free will, so that ones own will is perfectly aligned with that of God is it not? Free will doesn't seem very highly prized at all, and seems more a temptation into damnation than anything else from this standpoint.


Question 92.3 Aquinas says people, being with God, will never see what God sees.  I would take this to mean that perfect alignment doesn't mean the person doesn't mean ego loss.


Dildo said:


> But he does. He threatens us directly with his unending wrath for failing to do what he wants.


God also gives you as many chances to do what he wants, he spared ninevah despite sending jonah to witness to their destruction. Same for Moses' pharaoh.


Dildo said:


> He also creates a world in which his creations are tortured on a daily basis, and for some the only promise of relief in death is merely a gateway to a whole new level of suffering or in the very best case scenario as mentioned above; oblivion via the total loss of self in heaven.


God flooded the world because this reason. Man chose to be


Dildo said:


> Can God make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it? Is God bound to certain laws of the universe? If there is something, anything at all, that God cannot do; he can't possibly be omnipotent. If there's something God could do to help humanity, but he choses not to then he isn't omnibenevolent. Is he neither able, nor is he willing? Then is he divine at all?
> 
> This isn't a problem the Abrahamic God alone has, Epicurus' riddle was problematic for devotees of Neoplatonism and Imperial era Mystery Cult deities long before Yahweh took centre stage.


Can god create impossible, illogical things in a world with defined physics.


Dildo said:


> But we don't have free will at all in the current set up. If I put a big cake in front of you, and tell you I'm going to stab one of your relatives to death if you eat the cake, have you really had a "free" choice to eat the cake or not?


of course you do. you have the choice and the acceptance of your responsibility. Even in your binary there are alternative choices: attack you, kill your family first, feed your family cake.

Man is undetermined and responsible for his choices.


Dildo said:


> This is before we even get into contexts and scenarios; i.e: "Murder is always wrong but if I'd killed Hitler I could save millions" etc.
> 
> I don't know if you're a parent or not, but are you in the habit of murdering your children if they do something you don't like? Floods, Israelite armies, plagues....How can the children learn anything when they're dead? Moreover, what about all the goyim peoples who didn't even ever learn why they were being slaughtered because they'd never even heard of the God of Israel or what he wanted?


Almost every time god kills people, hes offered the offender plenty of chances to repent.  Are you a fan of the darwin awards? 


Dildo said:


> Also, sin can't exist in heaven yeah? Whose choice was that? God has decided what sin is, and has invented sin as a concept. If he's all powerful, he could make sin cease to exist but he chooses not to, and chooses to keep it cast out and infecting his flock at the same time.


How can God make sin cease to exist if it exists because man freely disobeys? That choice would change humanity at its foundation, it would negate the image of God.



Dildo said:


> Unless he didn't create sin, and he isn't able to stop it...At which point, he isn't omnipotent?






Dildo said:


> This is something from what we can glean from late antiquity the last of the pagans, such as the Academy at Athens or Hypatia in Alexandria, used to debate about and why many of them couldn't accept the Abrahamic deity. It's very, very hard to be monotheistic and rationalise this being as being always good all the time when so much evil is around; you either need a lesser deity of darkness like Satan or the Demiurge of the Gnostics to be an antagonist, or multiple deities of which some may be good, others bad or a bit of both at different times.
> 
> Hence why the problem of evil just didn't really exist for Polytheists and is a uniquely monotheist issue.


Can you explain more? It seems you shifted evil from man to other things.


Dildo said:


> If he is omniscient then no, because an omniscient being by necessity must know all things. If there is something, anything at all, they don't know they can't by definition be all seeing.
> 
> If he is omnibenevolent then no, because if I saw my child outside playing with a gun and didn't intervene that would be criminal negligence. For a higher being like a deity, to sit back and not intervene when their "child" is in immanent danger of unending torment or very real immediate pain...Why do we hold ourselves to a higher standard than deities?


Child pulls the trigger and theres a misfire, misfeed, no bullets as can be the case.

Is that divine intervention. 


Dildo said:


> If he is omnipotent then probably, because it's immaterial if we obey or not. His seat is secure and there is no risk whatsoever of being ejected from it. His other qualities could impinge on this freedom however, as if he was omnibenevolent he would be forced to remain focused on it to prevent evil being done and his power would be required to enforce it.


 he prevented evil by flooding the world and this is held against him.


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## catholiclutheran (Apr 30, 2021)

Seregios (Att. at Law) said:


> I get what you're saying. I really wish that Book of Levititcus was cut out in the New Testament. Would have prevented so many problems


Leviticus is in the OT. It's pretty fucking important. Of course, since Christ fulfilled the old law, we are not beholden to it. The retards that still follow Leviticus are mostly Calvinists. Calvinism is retarded and I blame John Calvin for the existence of fedora tipping faggots like TJ Kirk.


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## murdered meat bag (Apr 30, 2021)

catholiclutheran said:


> Leviticus is in the OT. It's pretty fucking important. Of course, since Christ fulfilled the old law, we are not beholden to it. The retards that still follow Leviticus are mostly Calvinists.


this is wrong, calvinism is primarily focused on soteriology and lots of christians follow the moral laws in leviticus.


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## Niggernerd (Apr 30, 2021)

For all of Americas autism and faults
I love this country which was built with christian values in mind so i don't hate it. I'm no god fearing man but i can respect people who are.


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## catholiclutheran (Apr 30, 2021)

murdered meat bag said:


> this is wrong, calvinism is primarily focused on soteriology and lots of christians follow the moral laws in leviticus.


Yes, a lot of christians follow the moral laws of Leviticus, not all of them are stupid. But Calvin teaches a lot of heretical bullshit that normal human beings should find offensive. Like how all good things you accomplish are solely because of God's Grace, yet all bad things you do are 100% your fault. Or how true redemption is impossible because of predestination, nothing that we do in this life matters because God has already decided whether we go to Heaven or Hell. And the most common christfags that irritate people are Presbyterians, a bunch of Calvinists.


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## Android raptor (Apr 30, 2021)

Canon Jesus is all right but fundie fanon Jesus sucks ass.


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## knobslobbin (Apr 30, 2021)

Our ancestors, especially if you are German or Scandinavian, fought the Church for centuries. From their perspective it was the religion of the Roman oppressors being forced on them. The history of the Catholic church was one of abuse and allegiance to the ruling elites from the start, so it's not hard to understand why it was resisted for so long.

Even after Christianity "won" and became a part of European culture it was still so corrupt that many had to protest and break away, see the protestant reformation and all of the corruption they were fighting.

Our culture and ethnic identity survived the weird jew cult imported by the Romans and thrives in spite of it. I don't hate Christianity or Christ, but being ignorant of our history can give you a very false sense of what Christianity was to our ancestors. Big difference from what it has been turned into after centuries of resistance and reform vs the past.


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## SouthernBitchBob (Apr 30, 2021)

murdered meat bag said:


> Your sins are still your own, as well as your penence. That doesnt magically go away.
> 
> Instead of offering sacrificing at the temple at various points every trangression, asking the priest to mediate atonement and doing almsgiving, a permanent sacrifice has been made, so you can go seek atonement and almsgiving.
> 
> If you grew up a "faith not works" prot, the necessity of the old testament sacrfice is skipped that leads to the "scapegoat is abandonment of responsibility".


Yeah that whole "sacrificing at temple for transgressing" thing is where I disagree. Christianity didn't come along and say "hey guys, doing this thing that's unrelated to your bad behavior is kind of stupid, perhaps you should just do the remorse and making up for it part" and instead said "We'll just do a really big horrific human murder to pay it forward for all of them at once". I think that's an entirely nonsensical part of Judaism and Christianity. So God wasn't capable of saying "I'm over this whole sacrificing thing", he needed one last big dramatic one to get the spell to work?

I fail to see the connection between "murdering a dude" and "Now you don't need a priest to help forgive you for swearing!"


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## Cyclonus (Apr 30, 2021)

Jesus taught that anyone who didn't believe in him would burn in hell for all eternity. He talked about hell more than heaven. That sounds pretty brainwashy if you ask me.


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## murdered meat bag (Apr 30, 2021)

catholiclutheran said:


> . But Calvin teaches a lot of heretical bullshit that normal human beings should find offensive. Like how all good things you accomplish are solely because of God's Grace, yet all bad things you do are 100% your fault.


Almost. Tulip says even the good you do is evil unless youre a christiab



catholiclutheran said:


> Or how true redemption is impossible because of predestination, nothing that we do in this life matters because God has already decided whether we go to Heaven or Hell. And the most common christfags that irritate people are Presbyterians, a bunch of Calvinists.





SouthernBitchBob said:


> Yeah that whole "sacrificing at temple for transgressing" thing is where I disagree. Christianity didn't come along and say "hey guys, doing this thing that's unrelated to your bad behavior is kind of stupid, perhaps you should just do the remorse and making up for it part" and instead said "We'll just do a really big horrific human murder to pay it forward for all of them at once". I think that's an entirely nonsensical part of Judaism and Christianity. So God wasn't capable of saying "I'm over this whole sacrificing thing", he needed one last big dramatic one to get the spell to work?


The other part is the christus victor. The New adam died, came back to life, and conquered death. Not reincarnated, but came back in the body he died in. We celebrate that this saturday night.


SouthernBitchBob said:


> I fail to see the connection between "murdering a dude" and "Now you don't need a priest to help forgive you for swearing!"


You still the need priest. Unless youre a protestant.

Im not a protestant so if we disagree there, well have agree to disagree.


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## SouthernBitchBob (Apr 30, 2021)

I'm also not a Christian for a really long list of reasons that aren't material to the topic would derail into a personal blogpost. The sacrifice thing is one of my personal sticking points even if the rest of them didn't matter; if I were to humor Christianity and believe all the teachings are true, I don't believe God taking personal offense and requiring additional atonement to be paid to Him personally for everything bad one does is particularly moral. In fact, I think it's a trait commonly found among petty, vain Iron Age gods. Now, this feeds into that blogpost I'm not going to make -I think Yahweh's personality is very easily explained in the context of pretty much any other ancient mythical deity (lol edgy atheist)-. Point is, if I believed the teachings of Christianity were divinely mandated truth, there are some points of morality that I'd disagree with God on. I'm okay with most of Jesus's teachings, but some of 'em I don't see coming from a "perfectly loving" source. Eternal damnation is another one. Disproportionate punishment for crimes is yet another bitchy, cruel Greek god behavior.


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## mario if smoke weed (Apr 30, 2021)

Cyclonus said:


> Jesus taught that anyone who didn't believe in him would burn in hell for all eternity. He talked about hell more than heaven. That pretty brainwashy if you ask me.


Jesus did not write the bible; someone else did.


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## murdered meat bag (Apr 30, 2021)

SouthernBitchBob said:


> I'm also not a Christian for a really long list of reasons that aren't material to the topic would derail into a personal blogpost. The sacrifice thing is one of my personal sticking points even if the rest of them didn't matter; if I were to humor Christianity and believe all the teachings are true, I don't believe God taking personal offense and requiring additional atonement to be paid to Him personally for everything bad one does is particularly moral. In fact, I think it's a trait commonly found among petty, vain Iron Age gods. Now, this feeds into that blogpost I'm not going to make -I think Yahweh's personality is very easily explained in the context of pretty much any other ancient mythical deity (lol edgy atheist)-. Point is, if I believed the teachings of Christianity were divinely mandated truth, there are some points of morality that I'd disagree with God on. I'm okay with most of Jesus's teachings, but some of 'em I don't see coming from a "perfectly loving" source. Eternal damnation is another one. Disproportionate punishment for crimes is yet another bitchy, cruel Greek god behavior.



Heres another way to look at it. At the end of the world, we all go to church, we all sing the songs we all say the prayers and do the handshakes and hug. When the new world is created some of us get to leave and enjoy a nice garden. And everyone else will be in that church singing and worshiping a god they despise, powerless to leave and surrounded by narcissists who only care for their own misery.


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## Noir drag freak (May 1, 2021)

I'm mostly indifferent to Christ and Christianity.  I went to an Evangelical middle school. That place still gives me nightmares.  



catholiclutheran said:


> Yes, a lot of christians follow the moral laws of Leviticus, not all of them are stupid. But Calvin teaches a lot of heretical bullshit that normal human beings should find offensive. Like how all good things you accomplish are solely because of God's Grace, yet all bad things you do are 100% your fault. Or how true redemption is impossible because of predestination, nothing that we do in this life matters because God has already decided whether we go to Heaven or Hell. And the most common christfags that irritate people are Presbyterians, a bunch of Calvinists.





Personally, I like Calvinism. Not a Christian, but Calvinism makes sense to me.  I mean he did have a point that human nature is depraved and unrighteous before God's standards. And that due to human depravity, people will naturally shy away from God's grace.  Also Calvin and Luther produces some of the spectacular results due to the internalize of one's salvation.  One of the biggest misconception about Protestantism is that they only have to have faith to be saved.  But that's only part of the story, most Protestants say that works is proof of the Holy Spirit living in your life.  Although a Protestant is saved by faith, the ability to produce the fruits of the Holy Spirit is how you can tell if you're close to God or really saved. 

I don't know much about Catholicism.  But it seems that the shift in the idea of salvation caused a shift in Western psychology, particularly in Northern Europe.  I remembering a passage that compared Catholic Germany to Protestant Germany.  Protestant Germans tend to be work harder and had a stricter approach to life when compared to Catholic Germans.  From what I heard and read, Protestantism caused the expansion and dominance of the Western world.  Compare the countries that were colonized by Catholics and Protestants.  Although, Catholics did destory some of the host cultures. It didn't destroy it nearly as much when compared to Protestantism.


Side-note: I'm a homosexual and noticed that prominent ex-gays tend to be Catholic or into Calvinism.
Like Rasario Butterfield and Jackie Hill Perry.




SouthernBitchBob said:


> I'm also not a Christian for a really long list of reasons that aren't material to the topic would derail into a personal blogpost. The sacrifice thing is one of my personal sticking points even if the rest of them didn't matter; if I were to humor Christianity and believe all the teachings are true, I don't believe God taking personal offense and requiring additional atonement to be paid to Him personally for everything bad one does is particularly moral. In fact, I think it's a trait commonly found among petty, vain Iron Age gods. Now, this feeds into that blogpost I'm not going to make -I think Yahweh's personality is very easily explained in the context of pretty much any other ancient mythical deity (lol edgy atheist)-. Point is, if I believed the teachings of Christianity were divinely mandated truth, there are some points of morality that I'd disagree with God on. I'm okay with most of Jesus's teachings, but some of 'em I don't see coming from a "perfectly loving" source. Eternal damnation is another one. Disproportionate punishment for crimes is yet another bitchy, cruel Greek god behavior.



According to Evangelical doctrines, it's not the sin that causes you go to Hell. It's your unbelief  and sinful nature that causes you to go to Hell. The sins that you commit is proof that you that you're in need of a redeemer.  While atonement was one of the reasons why people were to sacrifice animals.  Another reason was so that the soul could be purified.  Most of the Laws in the Bible has to do with purification and ritual cleanness.


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## Noir drag freak (May 1, 2021)

murdered meat bag said:


> Heres another way to look at it. At the end of the world, we all go to church, we all sing the songs we all say the prayers and do the handshakes and hug. When the new world is created some of us get to leave and enjoy a nice garden. And everyone else will be in that church singing and worshiping a god they despise, powerless to leave and surrounded by narcissists who only care for their own misery.




I guess I'm too much of a Protestant. From my understanding, the final judgment is when God cuts you off completely.  He wants no more to do with unbelievers since they rejected him.  Due to their unbelief and sinful nature, God places them into the Lake of Fire described in Revelations.



> And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:23


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## murdered meat bag (May 1, 2021)

Noir drag freak said:


> I guess I'm too much of a Protestant. From my understanding, the final judgment is when God cuts you off completely.  He wants no more to do with unbelievers since they rejected him.  Due to their unbelief and sinful nature, God places them into the Lake of Fire described in Revelations.


Plenty of arguments to be made about hell being a place or state of being


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## Pokemonquistador2 (May 1, 2021)

Spoiler: A question for Atheistfags



Atheistfags, do you believe in equality? Do you believe that all humans have equal value and should have equal rights? Do you believe that there's a transcendental value system that all humans should live by? Can you call people who steal or live off of the wealth of others "evil" if said people can do so without collapsing the system? Aren't the moral people who unwittingly support them just suckers? If all people receive the same fate when they die, from the serial murderer to the Lutheran church granny, then why not pour your energy into being a clever sociopath who extracts resources from the less intelligent? If there's no transcendental arbiter of justice judging you for your sins or some force in the universe acting like a "karma meter" making you spiritually sicker whenever you commit an act of evil, then why would it matter if you became a predator, other than the worldly punishment you might receive from your fellow humans in this life?



I dunno. I just notice a lot of Lefty Fedoratippers flipping out about the morality of people's actions, acting like pearl-clutching Church Ladies. Although their definition of "evil" is "person who does something that would thwart my wishes or hurt me and my allies politically."  It's like they want the moral authority of the Spanish Inquisition, but they don't want a pesky God actually sitting in Heaven, granting them a source for their authority. Presumably because a Pesky God would actually demand that they get off of their fat asses, do some good works and stop jerking it to Furry Porn.

I think CS Lewis mentioned Hell being a place where the locks were bolted on the inside. Meaning that people choose to be there. After the apocalypse, it will be the only place in the Universe where lies can exist. Imagine being a narcissist, nurtured by the lie that you are a smarter, better than average person and everyone around you is jealous of you. Or that nothing in life that happened to you was ever your fault - it was always someone else standing in your way. The only way you could get to Heaven would be to throw away that lie and realize that you were the source of most of your problems all along, but could a narcissist actually do that? Wouldn't some people choose to burn and suffer, as long as they could keep those comforting lies close to them? This is the interpretation of Hell that I would prefer to be true - that it's a place that you could choose to walk out of as long as you accepted the truth about yourself and loved others, and didn't cling to lies and hatred.

Another interpretation of Hell is that it's a place where all that's perishable gets purged and burned away. For the saved person who did good works, the fire is a cleansing, purifying fire leaving their immortal self free to move onto the next world. But for the wicked person who devoted their life to greed and love of wealth and material things, the fire would simply destroy them, because that's all they were in the end - an appetite without any kind of higher, spiritual existence.


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## ArnoldPalmer (May 1, 2021)

It's more of a "fuck you, dad" thing. The people who "hate" Jesus literally have no good reason to do so. The only three kinds of people who would hate him are Reddit Atheist Faggots, Angry Faggot Jews and Faggot Satanists who haven't realized that Satanism is Kabbalah yet.


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## Noir drag freak (May 1, 2021)

Pokemonquistador2 said:


> Spoiler: A question for Atheistfags
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not a fedora type of person. But I do love a good discussion. Is that okay?  Not trying to change to anyone's beliefs or values, just trying to extract more information from the world around me. Btw, are you Catholic?

Anyway, belief is an action, not a feeling. That's why Jordan Peterson is close to the biblical definition of belief.  People have to actively choose faith. Now for the question of human equality. Most people know and acknowledge that people aren't equal in terms of intelligence, attractiveness, and wealth. But they act as if people have equal worth most of the time.  Most of the time being the key phrase in the statement. When it comes time to put active belief behind one's actions most people usually fail. See how people act in terms of picking marriage partners.  

I also get feeling that people really don't like the idea of equality.  Especially in WEIRD countries where you have to differentiate yourself to make a living. If you constantly have to work and prove yourself, you would have a cynical approach to equality.  You'll probably believe equality for your own benefit but you would have a constant urge to show that you're making progress.

Also I don't think the 95% of people don't have the capability of being a clever sociopath. So for one thing, the majority of people would fail and it wouldn't be to there benefit.  At most those type people would end in jail, a mental institution or sitting in their mother's basements.  




> I think CS Lewis mentioned Hell being a place where the locks were bolted on the inside. Meaning that people choose to be there. After the apocalypse, it will be the only place in the Universe where lies can exist. Imagine being a narcissist, nurtured by the lie that you are a smarter, better than average person and everyone around you is jealous of you. Or that nothing in life that happened to you was ever your fault - it was always someone else standing in your way. The only way you could get to Heaven would be to throw away that lie and realize that you were the source of most of your problems all along, but could a narcissist actually do that? Wouldn't some people choose to burn and suffer, as long as they could keep those comforting lies close to them? This is the interpretation of Hell that I would prefer to be true - that it's a place that you could choose to walk out of as long as you accepted the truth about youAnother interpretation of Hell is that it's a place where all that's perishable gets purged and burned away. For the saved person who did good works, the fire is a cleansing, purifying fire leaving their immortal self free to move onto the next world. But for the wicked person who devoted their life to greed and love of wealth and material things, the fire would simply destroy them, because that's all they were in the end - an appetite without any kind of higher, spiritual existence.rself and loved others, and didn't cling to lies and hatred.



This reminds me of a convert who injured or killed his father.  He thought he was evolved being and better than anyone but had nothing to show for it.  This is where self-awareness and control of one's thoughts is key. If you read the biographies of great leaders regardless of their personal morality, the majority realized that they needed to constantly evolve and were aware of cause and effect.  I think that the successful people in any field succeed because they want to make up for a perceived lack.  Even high-profile successful criminals work with that logic.  

 Couldn't you argue that it's not love of worldly thing destroy them?  But the fact, they would sacrifice parts of themselves that would survive  to the fire?  

Some lady on twitter made an interesting statement about how the earth belongs to the meek.  The meek realized that their lives are justified by faith in God, while others try to justify their lives by their works or success.  Maybe that's why Jesus said that we have to be like little children.  What are your thoughts?


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## Deadly Nightshade (May 1, 2021)

No, he keeps the demons haunting me in my sleep when I call for him.

Source: am a Christian, just not a perfect one.


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## Mnutu (May 3, 2021)

SouthernBitchBob said:


> I'm also not a Christian for a really long list of reasons that aren't material to the topic would derail into a personal blogpost. The sacrifice thing is one of my personal sticking points even if the rest of them didn't matter; if I were to humor Christianity and believe all the teachings are true, I don't believe God taking personal offense and requiring additional atonement to be paid to Him personally for everything bad one does is particularly moral. In fact, I think it's a trait commonly found among petty, vain Iron Age gods. Now, this feeds into that blogpost I'm not going to make -I think Yahweh's personality is very easily explained in the context of pretty much any other ancient mythical deity (lol edgy atheist)-. Point is, if I believed the teachings of Christianity were divinely mandated truth, there are some points of morality that I'd disagree with God on. I'm okay with most of Jesus's teachings, but some of 'em I don't see coming from a "perfectly loving" source. Eternal damnation is another one. Disproportionate punishment for crimes is yet another bitchy, cruel Greek god behavior.


Christianity is interesting. God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent; all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-present. There’s theological implications that can be derived from that. First, everything that happens anywhere is by the Will of God, especially the things that demons do. This is one of the lessons to be learned from Job. Second, God exists everywhere beyond the limits of time. All the sacrifices and rules were established by God to preconfigure the sacrifice of Christ. Third, God can break rules He made without breaking them. An immortal being cannot be mortal, yet God himself died and still lived, and in doing so made it that mortals can become immortal themselves.


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## Pokemonquistador2 (May 4, 2021)

Here are a couple of good vids on Divine Omnipotence and Omniscience, and how you have to be careful in letting Atheists define the definitions of these terms.


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## Merried Senior Comic (May 4, 2021)

I like how every contrarian is a christfag now because being non-christian means your a reddit atheist.


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## Lemmingwise (May 4, 2021)

Mnutu said:


> God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent; all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-present. There's theological implications that can be derived from that. First, everything that happens anywhere is by the Will of God, especially the things that demons do.


This is not exactly right. If we were in a war and you were part of a unit that surrendered, you would now be in my care. At that point I would have tremendous power over you. But I would not control your actions. I could ask you as commander to get your men to obey my rules, but the degree and manner ad to which you police them would be in your hands, even if I had enough intel to keep up with what you are doing.

After all free moral will is also part of christian theology.




Merried Senior Comic said:


> I like how every contrarian is a christfag now because being non-christian means your a reddit atheist.


You don't have to be christian to be contrarian. But if you are christian you arr considered contrarian by default.


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## L50LasPak (May 4, 2021)

I can't think of any interpretation of the Bible where God isn't a horrific monster at worst and severely incompetent at best, but there's really nothing in there to suggest Jesus was anywhere near as bad. Of course there is that whole thing where Jesus is also God at the same time so I guess if you hate God you're logically required to hate Jesus as well, I suppose?

Of course the question this thread poses really has nothing to do with anyone's personal interpretation of the scripture and everything to do with the dumb shit people will spout for political clout.


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## draggs (May 4, 2021)

People are commonly jealous and hateful of perfection


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## Mnutu (May 4, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> This is not exactly right. If we were in a war and you were part of a unit that surrendered, you would now be in my care. At that point I would have tremendous power over you. But I would not control your actions. I could ask you as commander to get your men to obey my rules, but the degree and manner ad to which you police them would be in your hands, even if I had enough intel to keep up with what you are doing.
> 
> After all free moral will is also part of christian theology.
> 
> ...


Demons and angels are much different than humans. They don’t possess free will in the same way humans do, if at all. Further, everything exists because God wills it to be so, and the Lord can choose to harden or soften the hearts of men. Ultimately, mankind does possess free will and can choose against God, but we also have free will because God wills it. It’s a challenging belief.


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## Lemmingwise (May 4, 2021)

Mnutu said:


> Further, everything exists because God wills it to be so


Omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence does not also require complete determinism.


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## Mnutu (May 4, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence does not also require complete determinism.


It isn’t. Man can react in any way he wants to, and the Lord respects free will. But because He is Omniscient and Omnipresent, He knows everything that was, is, and shall be. The struggle isn’t to defeat Satan (he is already defeated), it is to reconcile with God, a choice that you the individual, aided or hindered, must ultimately choose.


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## 1864897514651 (May 4, 2021)

Null hates Jesus Christ and His Holy Church.


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## Just Another Apocalypse (May 4, 2021)

1864897514651 said:


> Null hates Jesus Christ and His Holy Church.


Did the Velvet Under ground record a song called Null? I don't think so. So there you go. You're Welcome.


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