# Were incels avoidable?



## cybertoaster (Nov 26, 2022)

Casual convo with coworkers, one mentioned his brother was essentially a wizard (not those words, these are all normies) and described him as _loveshy_.

Thought that term was a meme/copout, turns out its a real psychological term, love-shyness, and entire studies about it were made back in the 1970s, the participants were all what we would currently call incels.

But here's the thing: this new condition wasn't accepted by the WHO or the American Psychiatric Association. They all ignored this and let it fester.

Lets say the opposite happened and therapy was targeted at this, would incels still exist today?


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## Just A Butt (Nov 26, 2022)

yes they would exist and will always exist
there will always be unfuckable people, be it caused by being horrifically ugly or just being a complete retard.


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## Monkey Pink (Nov 26, 2022)

Incels and femcels are usually people with rejection trauma, which society doesn't seem to acknowledge or recognize so they don't find a proper way to work through it and instead fall into echo chambers that make it worse.

So it's a split issue between 50% mental healthcare sucking, and 50% the Internet sucking.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Nov 26, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> yes they would exist and will always exist
> there will always be unfuckable people, be it caused by being horrifically ugly or just being a complete retard.


But what if we start having state-mandated gfs for autistic virgins?


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## Divine right to rule (Nov 26, 2022)

The muslims had incels for hundreds of years.
A society with polygamy automatically has.
Middle and high class men have multiple wives, a substantial part of the lower class none at all.

It is different now though, because it is not like polygamous couplings form around a single man.
Chads continue to fuck 20-40 year olds all their life, while many normal men pair up, but a SIGNIFICANT amount of normal women, normal men, and an even bigger percentage of below average men and women don't pair up and stay alone in their middle age and age.

We humans are not able to manage sexuality without a guiding culture, it seems.
Western "dating" and relations between the sexes is broken, and society is declining rapidly in stability because of it.
It is simple, a society with stable families is a stable society. The family is the smallest building block of civilization, not the individual.


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## Just A Butt (Nov 26, 2022)

they are all embarrassing and should just kill themselves if they want to solve the problem


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## Dergint (Nov 26, 2022)

Define incel, both in terms of qualifications and behaviors.

This dude theoretically got to fuck Tory Ojeda on a regular basis, but in practice he's done more damage than most people who get called incels online.


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## Sperghetti (Nov 26, 2022)

Yeah, we’d still have them. Just like I’m sure we always have, considering that unrequited love has long been a common theme for literature, songs, and poetry.

Even if it had become a targeted issue by the medical/psych establishment, I think there would still be a lot of patients who ultimately couldn’t be treated because, like certain personality disorders, they’d resist the idea that the core problem with their relationships is _them_ and the solution is working on themselves.

IMO, incels have only become something that normal people have noticed recently because the internet allowed them to find each other, and it also allowed us outsiders to watch them. Before that, I think they just went ignored for the most part purely because they _are_ so terrible with interpersonal relationships.


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## Breadbassket (Nov 26, 2022)

"Incels" have been around since the dawn of mankind even though they haven't always gone by that name. As others have like @Sperghetti have said I think they have only really come to the forefront since the power of the Internet has allowed them to establish communities of like-minded individuals. There is an article I read called The New Superfluous Men on the subject. Some may find it interesting to look at, here is an excerpt from it:


> It thus seems all the more curious that today’s incels would suddenly elicit such shock and cultural soul-searching, and have their predicament treated as a bizarre and recent aberration in all corners of the media. In 2018, alarms began sounding about a “sex recession,” with men reporting having had no sex in the past year at nearly double the rate of their female peers. For incels, this was a vindication of their theory that female “hypergamy,” unleashed by feminism and the sexual revolution, had created a situation where women unconstrained by social mores flock to a minority of wealthy or attractive men while leaving the rest in the dust. Others were quick to blame dating apps for enabling women to be selective like never before. But both of these narratives contain some rather inconvenient gaps. For one thing, no matter how many successful Tinder matches “Chad” gets, it’s hard to imagine him competing with the likes of Moulay Ismail ibn Sharif, who fathered over a thousand children with over five hundred different women without the help of either dating apps or feminism. And for all that incels stew over lurid accounts of youthful promiscuity, the most common guarantor of sex for men throughout history has not been some more fairly regulated dating culture but the far less exciting reality of marriage.
> 
> The picture becomes clearer if we recognize that both the incels and the journalists who puzzle over them are defining their expectations by the standards of a very particular period—the second half of the twentieth century. When incels talk about the “traditional norms” supposedly eroded by feminism, they are actually referring to a brief historical window in which a number of political and economic currents converged to create an incredible wave of stability and shared prosperity in much of the developed world, giving millions of relatively unskilled and unremarkable men the means to sustain a nuclear household on a single income and reap the rewards of patriarchy. That this was in fact an unprecedented social arrangement, or that people in preceding decades had actually attended church less often, married later, and done so in lower numbers was quickly forgotten as the world of _Leave It to Beaver_ established itself as the perpetual “good old days” in our collective imaginary. This was also, incidentally, the same period in which “dating” came to be seen as a quintessential stage of youth. And so powerful is the gravitational pull of this golden age that it still anchors the political imaginations of both Left and Right. As if to illustrate Brink Lindsey’s quip that liberals want to work in the 1950s while conservatives want to go home there, Donald Trump promises to “make America great again” at the same time that Bernie Sanders waxes nostalgic about marginal tax rates under Eisenhower.
> 
> ...


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## Megatardingo (Nov 26, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> yes they would exist and will always exist
> there will always be unfuckable people, be it caused by being horrifically ugly or just being a complete retard.


Can confirm this is now a peer reviewed study.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Nov 26, 2022)

From what I've read of the loveshy syndrome it isn't the same as the incels. The distinctive thing about incels is their system of belief where they basically view women as all being promiscuous sociopaths driven entirely by appearance, they believe society owes them women and women are the center of their world, and they usually prioritize specific male attractiveness standards, focused on height and facial structure, which they fixate on obsessively. The first two of those are fundamental to the incel identity; someone who doesn't believe that shit isn't an incel. This "incel" word was a label they put on themselves. The last one isn't necessary, but I've noticed it's a pattern with them. Half of them seem to suffer from extreme body dysmorphia, and their beliefs about women's behavior is delusional.

The loveshy guys tend to fit a specific pattern of being extremely passive guys who only hang out with women, are extreme romantics/sit around listening to love songs and watching romance movies, no friends or at least no male friends, "melancholic," spiritual, unexpressive and serious, dominated by possessive mothers with few sisters, and hateful of men.

The two are not only not the same thing, but they're in some significant ways very opposite. The incels hate women, the loveshies hate men. The loveshies seem more reclusive, the incels more resentful.

Men who are scared to interact with women are universal and probably were much more common back when gender segregation was strictly enforced (see: Middle East and India). Incels, on the other hand, are a uniquely modern thing that exists from specific isolated people linking up and indoctrinating each other on the Internet.


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## Chaos Theorist (Nov 26, 2022)

The rise in incels correlates with the rise of single mothers


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## cybertoaster (Nov 26, 2022)

> The New Superfluous Men


That article its one of those_ "things always sucked LOL go back to work" _neolibs like to throw around to justify the unrelenting socioeconomic decay.


> “if things were so great, they never would’ve changed.”


Dumb, good things never last, the circumstances that led to the 1950's economic boom had nothing to do with culture and everything to do with postwar Europe being in the dumps and we being the only remaining major industrial power.

When you're the only business in town you get to set the prices and make bank, simple as that. 20 years later Japan went into high gear with their industry and they were destroying us, what are the odds?


Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> The loveshy guys tend to fit a specific pattern of being extremely passive guys who only hang out with women, are extreme romantics/sit around listening to love songs and watching romance movies, no friends or at least no male friends, "melancholic," spiritual, unexpressive and serious, dominated by possessive mothers with few sisters, and hateful of men.


Seems to me most incels are just these loveshy's after stewing in years of rejection, that study I mentioned said this:


> Gilmartin's love-shy men were poorly-adjusted and high in rates of mental illness. He found that the* love-shy men had considerably more violent fantasies*, were much more likely to believe that nobody cared about them, and were much more likely to have difficulties concentrating. He also found a *tendency in some of the love-shy men to stare compulsively at women with whom they were infatuated or even stalk them*, but without being able to talk to them, which *sometimes got them in trouble with school authorities because of the perceived threat*. Most of the love-shy men reported *experiencing frequent feelings of depression*.


That sounds incel-ish to me, and the current online echochamber does not help but TBH that applies to other loony groups that are far more socially accepted like troons.


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## Drkinferno72 (Nov 26, 2022)

Why don't we just hookup the incels together?


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Nov 26, 2022)

cybertoaster said:


> That article its one of those_ "things always sucked LOL go back to work" _neolibs like to throw around to justify the unrelenting socioeconomic decay.
> 
> Dumb, good things never last, the circumstances that led to the 1950's economic boom had nothing to do with culture and everything to do with postwar Europe being in the dumps and we being the only remaining major industrial power.
> 
> ...


I agree to the extent that the loveshy and incels both tend to be creeps, I think what's going on inside their heads is different. Similarly both types are both generally shut-ins, NEETs. From what I read I just picture a different sort of person as the loveshy. They seem much more pathological and hung up in fear, the incels more of a "learned" problem, might say?


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## Kel1 shi1 (Nov 26, 2022)

Drkinferno72 said:


> Why don't we just hookup the incels together?



A lot of them are actually closeted gays. They Analise male beauty way too much.


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## Hyro (Nov 26, 2022)

Kel1 shi1 said:


> A lot of them are actually closeted gays. They Analise male beauty way too much.


A lot of it feels more like an air crash investigation on their own plight rather than a lust for men tbh


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## Kel1 shi1 (Nov 26, 2022)

Hyro said:


> A lot of it feels more like an air crash investigation on their own plight rather than a lust for men tbh



In part I agree, but many of them troon out so it's not "Gay". Just gay with extra steps.


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## AbyssGazer (Nov 26, 2022)

Some people, especially men, are genetic dead ends. This has been the case since the dawn of complex life and will be until we enforce strict eugenics or become something non-biological. 

I really can't blame the incels for going insane over realising this fact. On the other hand, if they really understand that the situation is completely hopeless, why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it? Seems like they did so more in the past.


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## Aero the Alcoholic Bat (Nov 26, 2022)

While "incels" have always existed, the increasing numbers of men who fail to score or form healthy relationships with the opposite sex...yes, it could have been avoided.

Neither boys or girls are given direction in life, both are taught that guys and girls are interchangeable.

Neither are taught how to properly treat each other.

Both are engaged in a retarded, unnecessary battle of the sexes.

and both are taught unhealthy, untrue ideas about romance and sexuality from a very young age by popular media, and more recently by LGBTQ ideologues.


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## murph (Nov 26, 2022)

Funny that "incel" attaches to men when it was a woman who came up with the term.

There are lots of unfuckable people. Making it a feedback loop into an inescapable neurosis is a modern thing. Emily Dickinson was an "incel".


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## Big Al's Famous Pork (Nov 26, 2022)

If you can make a woman laugh, you can get laid.
If you want to sit around and cry about how life is unfair on Discord, you won't,


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## PaleTay (Nov 27, 2022)

I think you needed to get rid of cars to get rid of incels.

There's a big difference between being lonely in a bikable city in Europe or one where you're all on the beach or at the boardwalk and one where you're stuck in hours upon hours of traffic a day and don't know your neighbors because no one exists near their home.


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## cybertoaster (Nov 27, 2022)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> I agree to the extent that the loveshy and incels both tend to be creeps, I think what's going on inside their heads is different. Similarly both types are both generally shut-ins, NEETs. From what I read I just picture a different sort of person as the loveshy. They seem much more pathological and hung up in fear, the incels more of a "learned" problem, might say?


I think loveshy is a precondition to become an incel. Like I wouldn't be surprised if most incels today were the loveshys from a decade ago posting those foreveralone memes trying to cope thinking it was just a matter of time for things to change. Then those memes changed to more cynical ones, and then to outright anger and hate at the realization this wasnt a bad moment, this is the way life is gonna be for most of them.

Loveshys still have hope, incels are loveshys that have gazed into the abyss, see what I mean?


Kel1 shi1 said:


> In part I agree, but many of them troon out so it's not "Gay". Just gay with extra steps.


Aren't most incels that do this transbians tho?


404 said:


> why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it?


Isn't that what they are doing? most incels don't seem to be contributing anything to society, many say they're unemployed living off neetbux.

Then there's MGTOW but that's more about doing the bare minimum. I know tons of normies who're basically doing that but have never heard of that movement.


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## AbyssGazer (Nov 27, 2022)

cybertoaster said:


> I think loveshy is a precondition to become an incel. Like I wouldn't be surprised if most incels today were the loveshys from a decade ago posting those foreveralone memes trying to cope thinking it was just a matter of time for things to change. Then those memes changed to more cynical ones, and then to outright anger and hate at the realization this wasnt a bad moment, this is the way life is gonna be for most of them.
> 
> Loveshys still have hope, incels are loveshys that have gazed into the abyss, see what I mean?
> 
> ...


Not talking about work and finances only. Let's say I woke up one day and realised that women and society as a whole shunned me and that it wasn't going to change. I'd probably be upset at first, but that would be a pointless feeling. When the realisation settled I'd become a complete hermit somewhere, or maybe a monk. The motivation to escape the society that hated me would be enormous. 

The incels hate women and normie society as they can't have it. Yet they must subconsciously believe that if they just obsess enough over their plight they'll find a way out. 

Sounds ironic, but if incels _really_ gave up and understood their situation, they probably would become happier.


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## Claude Sigma (Nov 27, 2022)

Genetic data on X and Y haplogroups tell us that a huge chunk of the males never reproduce, and that's the case since forever, even when state-enforced monogamy became a thing.
It used to be the "village idiot/weirdo", commonly called a geek that would end up alone forever and maybe have sex with prostitutes, but the difference is that nowadays those isolated individuals find a way through the Internet to become some sort of a collective, which is something that never happened before.

This coupled with the issue that women pretty much always choose in their close circles for a mate, there wasn't that much choice so it didn't felt unfair even to the males, but nowadays where the majority of couples are formed over online dating women have access to a much greater pool and can afford to be a lot more selective about their mates.

This makes a difficult situation, but there is no easy solution to it. A part of the population of males will never reproduce or have access to significant opposite sex attention, as it has always been. That's sad but that's how it is.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Nov 27, 2022)

404 said:


> On the other hand, if they really understand that the situation is completely hopeless, why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it? Seems like they did so more in the past.


There was more not-society to escape to, in the past. Nowadays, everyone is oversocialized


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## Chaos Theorist (Nov 27, 2022)

404 said:


> Some people, especially men, are genetic dead ends. This has been the case since the dawn of complex life and will be until we enforce strict eugenics or become something non-biological.
> 
> I really can't blame the incels for going insane over realising this fact. On the other hand, if they really understand that the situation is completely hopeless, why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it? Seems like they did so more in the past.


The amount of women who get a free pass from society because they have children is staggering


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## Ridley (Nov 27, 2022)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> The distinctive thing about incels is their system of belief where they basically view women as all being promiscuous sociopaths driven entirely by appearance, they believe society owes them women and women are the center of their world, and they usually prioritize specific male attractiveness standards, focused on height and facial structure, which they fixate on obsessively.


If this is the case then the incel phenomenon really is unique to the times. The incels didn't decide to believe all of those things at random. You probably have a phone & can use it right now to download a popular app & see shallow women engage in sociopathic behavior while demonstrating stupid values like not dating anyone whose height begins with a 5. The concept of Chad isn't new either & his perpetual pump-n'-dumping of porkulent women on dating sites is probably why they all have such a princess syndrome. He's not without blame despite incel culture seeming to insist otherwise.

But more than anything western culture is completely diseased & equates virginity with every theoretical "lack of" shallow retards can possibly extrapolate. Worshiping at the altars of increasingly deranged kinds of sex or sexuality while punching down at people who simply haven't experienced it (out of choice or because they haven't figured out dating yet) is what created the incel phenomenon. If you participate in this bullying then that's fine because it's really funny but I'm going to laugh at you, too, when the incel you bullied decides to Nikolas Cruz you & your friends.

tl;dr pick a church and go to it fags


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Nov 27, 2022)

Some of usthem are just born so socially inept that there would never be a chance in any era, but I do think society has made it worse.

Men were sold a narrative. Go to college, get a good job, take halfway decent care of yourself, and the ladies will flock to you. When that didn't happen, is there any surprise that a lot of young men were confused and angry? And when they question it, they were told it still must be their fault somehow. It just HAS to be, because otherwise we'd have to admit that they were lied to.

We can't let them drop out of society either, because it turns out that horny young men are actually the backbone of the economy. So we use the carrot and stick. The carrot is that if they work just a LITTLE bit harder, if they just "put themselves out there" a LITTLE bit more, they'll finally find a lady. The stick is that, if they don't, we'll call them maladjusted anti-social mass murderers waiting to happen.

What are the perpetually maidenless SUPPOSED to think? I'm not saying that the full incel weirdos who want to chain women in their parents' basement are thinking in a healthy way, but how SHOULD they react? You can't win, you can't break even, you can't leave the game. What exactly did society expect would happen?


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## PipTheAlchemist (Nov 27, 2022)

Ridley said:


> tl;dr pick a church and go to it fags


Just for that faggot quip, I'm becoming a Scientologist. You can't get pissed at me, since The Church of Scientology is still a church


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## FILTH Tourist (Nov 27, 2022)

If we are going to tackle the incel problem we need to break up the term incel into more specific categories. People are incel for many reasons and unless we can better diagnose what is stopping someone from having sex we will never make progress helping people.


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## cybertoaster (Nov 27, 2022)

Claude Sigma said:


> Genetic data on X and Y haplogroups tell us that a huge chunk of the males never reproduce, and that's the case since forever, even when state-enforced monogamy became a thing.


You have to go really far back to get those numbers, not being an optimist or anything its just state/religious-enforced monogamy really changed things a lot which might be partially the reason why so many people joined since who wants to live in a society where you are condemned to inceldom because some old fat cunt in a ziggurat/pyramid/palace decided to have 200 wives?


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Nov 27, 2022)

Something to keep in mind is that society, in my view, used to be much more friendly to spergs, perhaps to the detriment of normalfags.

Even outside of societies where you just buy a wife, elaborate social rituals gave a playbook to men of how to act. Often spergs are people who need formality to function well but appreciate formality when offered to them. Something like the Victorian Era had strict rules about what you say and do, but clear ones.

I think when we loosened everything up it liberated the guys who didn't have trouble socializing naturally, but it wrecked the ones who do.


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## NeoGAF Lurker (Nov 27, 2022)

There are a lot of factors that go into it. One that is the least comfortable to bring up is that society in general has hundreds of millions of “excess men.” Back in the day, men worked dangerous jobs and then got to fight in nonstop wars. A good chunk of those guys died or were maimed. This resulted in men having an easier time finding a woman to marry. Women are social creatures so not landing a man meant she was SOL so she had to be more pleasant, not be a feminist, etc. The women who lost out were the spinsters and crazy cat ladies. Generations before that they just went into a convent.

So back then there were excess women but they tended to be uglier, bad attitudes, etc. So both men and women had various eugenics that were in place to filter out the undesirables. Now those women are still in the picture and get 100 swipes right on dating apps. So the excess men are left behind but not the excess women. It’s leading into the current shit show of today. I don’t see a solution unless we go back to seeing nonstop wars and dangerous jobs culling the excess, which I don’t see happening. There might just be a chunk of the male population that will just have to go without.


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## Big Al's Famous Pork (Nov 27, 2022)

There aren't a lot of factors involved.
If you can't get laid its your own fault.
It isn't society's fault. Feminism didn't cause it.
You did.
Grow up.


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## A Pale Shadow (Nov 28, 2022)

Drkinferno72 said:


> Why don't we just hookup the incels together?


Because the defining feature of most incels is a lack of self awareness. They won't marry down if they're unattractive and want a Stacey to magic all their mental illness away.


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## beet644 (Nov 28, 2022)

A Pale Shadow said:


> Because the defining feature of most incels is a lack of self awareness. They won't marry down if they're unattractive and want a Stacey to magic all their mental illness away.


I know a Incel he would not consider dating a fat or an ugly  also wont date a a girl that drinks or smokes ( he not religious but says the smell makes him sick). But yet wants a Stacy.  I told him in this day and age a girl like that is not real. Also wont find a girl if you spend both your off days playing D&D from, 1 pm to 2 AM


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## DankSmoker (Nov 28, 2022)

How could they be incel if they weren't avoidable?


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## PipTheAlchemist (Nov 28, 2022)

NeoGAF Lurker said:


> There might just be a chunk of the male population that will just have to go without.


Question is, what do we do with these men? Most men are not going to be okay with the fact that they'll never get laid. Whether they deserve it, or not. They're still going to be pissed-off, and this could be disastrous for society. Young, fighting-age sexually-frustrated males are the demographic group you'd least want to piss-off, when running a society
Obviously, many of these incels have no hope in Hell of getting a gf, but they're still going to exist. Meaning we need to do something about them. Only things I can think of which could quell some kind of Beta Uprising is authoritarian bullshits like forced sterilization and mandatory conscription


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## A Pale Shadow (Nov 28, 2022)

beet644 said:


> I know a Incel he would not consider dating a fat or an ugly  also wont date a a girl that drinks or smokes ( he not religious but says the smell makes him sick). But yet wants a Stacy.  I told him in this day and age a girl like that is not real. Also wont find a girl if you spend both your off days playing D&D from, 1 pm to 2 AM


D&D is a social game, so at least he's getting that amount of interaction. Better than nothing.


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## Dr. Plussy Pounder (Nov 28, 2022)

Individuals who are just tabula rasa dipshits, or broken by trauma and experience? Of course. Same as kids getting cancer, some low rate of natural evil will just exist.

A disturbingly large swath of young people having no social skills whatsofuckingever, abandoned by a rapidly changing society, blamed for being ill prepared for the world they were originally born into, nevermind the one we're now in, pressured to join the oppression olympics? No.

The lack of social support, community, structure, belonging, and meaning facing a lot of zoomers and even younger millennials is on society for not providing it to young people, or the adults who were adolescents not that long ago. In a final sense, yes, you're accountable to yourself, but we don't just pile kids into zoos to Lord Of The Flies themselves, we raise them.

Well, we _did_. Now we give them tablets and laptops to distract them, let them find other kids on such devices - and of course the newly uplifted groomer class - and increasingly pressure them to keep their mouths shut irl because any misstep turns into a lecture or a tap dance through a mine field.

_*We've pushed kids into the same internet that made us farmers and the cows we milk to be brought up.* 
No fucking wonder they're so fucked up. Jesus Christ._

Social media was a mistake that the west will struggle to correct. The only way to fix this besides extensive therapy is almost certainly to keep kids off the internet in a very serious way that I don't see happening.



PipTheAlchemist said:


> Question is, what do we do with these men? Most men are not going to be okay with the fact that they'll never get laid. Whether they deserve it, or not. They're still going to be pissed-off, and this could be disastrous for society. Young, fighting-age sexually-frustrated males are the demographic group you'd least want to piss-off, when running a society
> Obviously, many of these incels have no hope in Hell of getting a gf, but they're still going to exist. Meaning we need to do something about them. Only things I can think of which could quell some kind of Beta Uprising is authoritarian bullshits like forced sterilization and mandatory conscription



If only the enlightened, woke authorities and arbiters of morality would actually figure out some way to manage them besides antagonism, marginalization, insult, and "have you considered becoming the gf?"

The first successful American Fascist is going to lead an army of these people and we all know it.


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## RMQualtrough (Nov 29, 2022)

Therapy is a longcon. There's only medication. An incel on MDMA may become a social butterfly with 10000 friends within an hour.

Alter the mind and you discover an entirely different human being.

Now it is worse though because of mass narcissism. EVERYONE is a narcissist, thanks to Instagram and beauty standards etc. The entire modern culture is built around being good looking. In the past an ugly man would wife an ugly woman and have ugly kids. Now the ugly people are disgusted by each other and would rather stay alone and fantasize over people way out of their league.

By 2022 standards, having an unattractive partner is considered failure and to many people makes you less valuable as a person.


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## cybertoaster (Nov 30, 2022)

This thread has been derailed, the point is not the incels now but the incels then, 50 years ago when out communities weren't falling apart, neoliberalism wasn't a thing, nearly nobody had a computer at home and the internet was an experiment at DARPA, but these proto-incels already existed and some shrinks were sounding the alarm at the problem. 

Did ignoring this problem made it worse? or even if the authorities did something it would've made no difference?

Lets asume this kind of behavior had been considered a mental disorder back then, would it have been fixed? would incels even exist anymore? would society consider being an incel like being a schizo or psychotic? or would the same attitudes we see today remain in place?


Plussy Pounder said:


> The first successful American Fascist is going to lead an army of these people and we all know it.


Tradcons don't like incels either.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Nov 30, 2022)

cybertoaster said:


> Tradcons don't like incels either.


Doesn't mean they can't be useful idiots


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## Iapetus (Nov 30, 2022)

I think that "inceldom" is a symptom of a greater problem, which is the destruction of basically any kind of social community within our (Western, and for me specifically American) world. The problem, which may go back to the Internet and Social Media or may not, is that there are none for the most part. Where once the Internet and Social Media were things that were fully separated from the "real world" and existed more or less as a parallel construct or an "observation platform," they have become increasingly tied to and interlinked with the "real world." And with that, you've seen a gradual loss of intermingling on a social level between people. I'm not fully sure what the cause is, chicken or the egg, but the consequences are clear and you'll see people - here, Reddit, Facebook, IRL, anywhere - lamenting about this:

Neighbors are increasingly atomized from each other. I knew basically everyone on my block, to a certain extent, but from what I gather these days that's a rarity. Let alone getting together with them for a block party or a barbecue. 

Communities and "social clubs" have been reduced to internet phenomena, of people gathering in Facebook groups or Discord chatrooms, far-removed from their local area, and totally removed from the real-world-space. People aren't going to search out like-minded interested people when they can just join an online community.

The dating market, I would say, has shrunk up considerably for someone who isn't in a position of "easy-social-networking" (school, for instance.) Dating apps are more ubiquitous, far more prevalent than at any other point, and I would say that for a lot of people the idea of just going out somewhere and striking up a conversation with a woman comes off as "just something someone doesn't do."

So we're left with situations where the only real places where people get together for the direct aim of socialization - clubs, parties, bars - place those who simply aren't that good at the social game at a disadvantage. It's no wonder someone grows resentful over this. I can't relate to the incel mindset, because I'm a bit of a extroverted social animal, but I can definitely see how that kind of atmosphere isn't good for them and "doesn't make sense." And I can see why they become frustrated, resentful, and then angry over it.

But I don't have an answer to solve it. I don't think there is one.


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## Dr. Plussy Pounder (Nov 30, 2022)

cybertoaster said:


> Tradcons don't like incels either.


Are Fascists Tradcons?


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## PipTheAlchemist (Nov 30, 2022)

Plussy Pounder said:


> Are Fascists Tradcons?


Facists are just ethno-leftists


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## Dr. Plussy Pounder (Nov 30, 2022)

Does it matter? People with nothing to lose by definition have no reason not to take big risks, and plenty of reasons to roll the dice. People alienated from a society will resent it anyway. 

The second an outlet is provided, what do you think they'll do? It's not like anything is being offered in exchange for accepting the status quo.


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## Secret Messages (Nov 30, 2022)

The problem with the current definition of incels as a group and the indiscriminate hatred of them is that you take loveshy shut-ins that could probably integrate into society with some guidance and immediately lump them together with the most bitter misogynists. The latter are probably beyond help from festering for so long but the current status quo tells the former that they are destined to become the latter and abandons them prematurely.


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## Star Platinum (Nov 30, 2022)

therapy isn't real and makes faggots more gay. so actually if the WHO or APA decided to recognize incels the problem would be worse, not better


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## The Grognard (Nov 30, 2022)

Secret Messages said:


> The problem with the current definition of incels as a group and the indiscriminate hatred of them is that you take loveshy shut-ins that could probably integrate into society with some guidance and immediately lump them together with the most bitter misogynists. The latter are probably beyond help from festering for so long but the current status quo tells the former that they are destined to become the latter and abandons them prematurely.


There's also little incentive for them to really talk about it to anyone due to the modern stigma surrounding men who haven't formed sexual/romantic relationships with the opposite gender by the time they've reached adulthood. Opening up on this to those who aren't sympathetic to their plight leads to them being seen as lesser beings by their socially capable peers. Thus, they go to those who will not shit on them for something they see as an aspect they can't control for whatever reason. Thus, the feedback loop of resentment and bitterness.


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## cybertoaster (Dec 2, 2022)

PipTheAlchemist said:


> Doesn't mean they can't be useful idiots


Useful for what? they can't even muster the courage to ask several women out until one says 'yes' and you want to do what, become an army?


Iapetus said:


> I think that "inceldom" is a symptom of a greater problem, which is the destruction of basically any kind of social community within our (Western, and for me specifically American) world.


But what about these protoincels from half a century ago? sure you had things like the sexual revolution back then which people like that french author houllenbecq says simply created a new class of haves and haves-not but for sex, like reaganomics, but those were the early days of said revolution and being loose was still taboo in most communities. Seems like those loveshy protoincels were too fast of a change.  


Iapetus said:


> Neighbors are increasingly atomized from each other. I knew basically everyone on my block, to a certain extent, but from what I gather these days that's a rarity. Let alone getting together with them for a block party or a barbecue.


Weird, I thought I was the one not doing that ever since I left the burbs, so its completely gone? that sucks...


Iapetus said:


> People aren't going to search out like-minded interested people when they can just join an online community.


I get your point but frankly I dont miss the days when I was the only guy around who was into X band/game/movie, or at best could find 2 or 3 guys that at least knew about it so we could discuss it.

I do miss get-togethers like LAN parties, but those were killed by broadband making it practically pointless to lug around your PC to a friend's house. Ironically you can get some really good gaming laptops for less than a grand today so doing a LAN would not be as much of a pain as back then.


Iapetus said:


> for a lot of people the idea of just going out somewhere and striking up a conversation with a woman comes off as "just something someone doesn't do."


The problem is actually women in this case, they really don't like that anymore, they think you might be some weirdo or try to rape them, because thats what they been told. Of course its all bullshit, but they believe and will act accordingly. Wouldn't be surprised if dating apps are partly behind this since they do promote that as the safe option for women, despite the fact that they do zero vetting on the users.



Secret Messages said:


> The problem with the current definition of incels as a group and the indiscriminate hatred of them is that you take loveshy shut-ins that could probably integrate into society with some guidance and immediately lump them together with the most bitter misogynists. The latter are probably beyond help from festering for so long but the current status quo tells the former that they are destined to become the latter and abandons them prematurely.


Incels are sort of heresy to the current ideological system because their situation cannot be explained by the ideology's dogma, they are a wrench into the gears of feminism much like saying the earth went around the sun and not the opposite was heresy for the church. If there's a patriarchy, if men truly have it easier, then incels shouldn't exist, you simply can't be an incel in such a system.


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## Sugriva (Dec 2, 2022)

The rise of dating apps has given traditionally low-value women a superiority complex, Why would they settle for the ugly incel when they get so many matches on their apps? But of course, they don't realize that most dudes are just swiping right on everybody because matches are so infrequent.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Dec 2, 2022)

Sugriva said:


> The rise of dating apps has given traditionally low-value women a superiority complex, Why would they settle for the ugly incel when they get so many matches on their apps? But of course, they don't realize that most dudes are just swiping right on everybody because matches are so infrequent.


At least dating apps have finally taught low-value men where they belong


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## Jeff_the_Thriller (Dec 3, 2022)

I'm going to say no unless technology quit advancing in 1992.  There's two sides to this. Coombrains are overloaded with porn and have unrealistic expectations of their ideal woman. The problem with the male coombrain is instant gratification. Why would you work to improve yourself when you could go on a whackathon? It fucks up their social skills talking to women and it's more convenient and comfortable to watch a video of lesbians 69ing.

And the other side, what would be an incel rant talking about THOSE FUCKING WHORES?!  I see this a lot on dating sites like bumble and tinder being fat girls with unrealistic standards. It's almost like incel levels on high standards. They want a high income, tall, well endowed dude bro. First find someone who can stand to see you naked and go from there.

I think being constantly barraged by media constantly has created unrealistic expectations as well as cop outs. Before the prevalence of social media and Internet hug boxes deluding everyone, both sexes had to work to improve themselves and make selves desirable.


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## ABE LINN COHN (Dec 5, 2022)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> From what I've read of the loveshy syndrome it isn't the same as the incels. The distinctive thing about incels is their system of belief where they basically view women as all being promiscuous sociopaths driven entirely by appearance, they believe society owes them women and women are the center of their world, and they usually prioritize specific male attractiveness standards, focused on height and facial structure, which they fixate on obsessively. The first two of those are fundamental to the incel identity; someone who doesn't believe that shit isn't an incel. This "incel" word was a label they put on themselves. The last one isn't necessary, but I've noticed it's a pattern with them. Half of them seem to suffer from extreme body dysmorphia, and their beliefs about women's behavior is delusional.
> 
> The loveshy guys tend to fit a specific pattern of being extremely passive guys who only hang out with women, are extreme romantics/sit around listening to love songs and watching romance movies, no friends or at least no male friends, "melancholic," spiritual, unexpressive and serious, dominated by possessive mothers with few sisters, and hateful of men.
> 
> ...


So to sum up: loveshy means Chris Chan, incel means Elliot Rodger


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Dec 5, 2022)

ABE LINN COHN said:


> So to sum up: loveshy means Chris Chan


Not hardly, Chris Chan wandered around in public very actively advertising his romantic desires.

Just picture an old-fashioned sensitive mamas boy.


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## Dr. Plussy Pounder (Dec 5, 2022)

cybertoaster said:


> Useful for what? they can't even muster the courage to ask several women out until one says 'yes' and you want to do what, become an army?



Ever seen a raw recruit? They're basically useless. An army need not be trained professionals that can make their own decisions, an army need only do as told. Directionless young people falling for a cult of personality are potentially quite dangerous. Instead of grappling with "we're not offering alienated people shit" we just call them 'radicalized' and wash our hands until shit goes sideways.


cybertoaster said:


> But what about these protoincels from half a century ago? sure you had things like the sexual revolution back then which people like that french author houllenbecq says simply created a new class of haves and haves-not but for sex, like reaganomics, but those were the early days of said revolution and being loose was still taboo in most communities. Seems like those loveshy protoincels were too fast of a change.



The issue is how many of them there are, not if they existed or not. Particularly, if a lot of people have nothing to live for they tend to make it everyone else's problem. If you have no social future and you're miserable, why are you any less likely to take big risks than if you had no economic future and you're miserable? 


cybertoaster said:


> Weird, I thought I was the one not doing that ever since I left the burbs, so its completely gone? that sucks...



Social atomization is part of this problem, and many others, too.



cybertoaster said:


> I get your point but frankly I dont miss the days when I was the only guy around who was into X band/game/movie, or at best could find 2 or 3 guys that at least knew about it so we could discuss it.



I'd rather have diverse friends and a milieu where people don't need to be in lockstep with outlook, politics, and interests, _in real life_, than find echo chambers online. Right now we seem to find the latter.



cybertoaster said:


> I do miss get-togethers like LAN parties, but those were killed by broadband making it practically pointless to lug around your PC to a friend's house. Ironically you can get some really good gaming laptops for less than a grand today so doing a LAN would not be as much of a pain as back then.



You're also likely less toxic IRL than on a mic.



cybertoaster said:


> The problem is actually women in this case, they really don't like that anymore, they think you might be some weirdo or try to rape them, because thats what they been told. Of course its all bullshit, but they believe and will act accordingly. Wouldn't be surprised if dating apps are partly behind this since they do promote that as the safe option for women, despite the fact that they do zero vetting on the users.



That's a big part of it, but there's also "I have time, I can keep fucking around or rolling the dice until I find the perfect partner" running until you're in your mid 30s and OH SHIT. People aren't encouraged to form a real social fabric, and this is the result. 



cybertoaster said:


> Incels are sort of heresy to the current ideological system because their situation cannot be explained by the ideology's dogma, they are a wrench into the gears of feminism much like saying the earth went around the sun and not the opposite was heresy for the church. If there's a patriarchy, if men truly have it easier, then incels shouldn't exist, you simply can't be an incel in such a system.



_Au contraire_, the system says they need to be medicalized and put in institutions for wrong think, or made to troon out.


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## NickGer (Dec 6, 2022)

There always been a man, who had no purpose in life or struggled to live in society. Modern times and society just makes this issue much more worse. Some people need guidance, help or mentor but it's easier to paint man as weirdos or creeps instead of actually granting them help. I know plenty of man, who are just broken by life or past events but are still great to talk to or hang around but they were and are alone for their entire life. The issue is not as simple as "lol just to talk to the girls" or some other dumb shit as some of comments in this thread imply(if may be the case for some people maybe). Incel is really broad and vague term of much more complex issue.


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## Drag-on Knight 91873 (Dec 6, 2022)

Drkinferno72 said:


> Why don't we just hookup the incels together?


We used to call it arranged marriage. It was deemed sexist and TBF, it did infringe upon individual freedom of association in favor of the parents' ambitions. 


Big Al's Famous Pork said:


> There aren't a lot of factors involved.
> If you can't get laid its your own fault.
> It isn't society's fault. Feminism didn't cause it.
> You did.
> Grow up


If we're counting rape as a legitimate means, then yes, it is the incels' faults. It's not? Well, it looks like there's more factors than you thought of.


Plussy Pounder said:


> Individuals who are just tabula rasa dipshits, or broken by trauma and experience? Of course. Same as kids getting cancer, some low rate of natural evil will just exist.
> 
> A disturbingly large swath of young people having no social skills whatsofuckingever, abandoned by a rapidly changing society, blamed for being ill prepared for the world they were originally born into, nevermind the one we're now in, pressured to join the oppression olympics? No.
> 
> ...


Which is why I've said the next Hitler will be Muslim. Islam is the anti-feminist, anti-Liberal philosophy that happens to have all the answers that incels want to hear. Sharia Law demands women to have a higher burden of proof, which prevents people like Amber Heard from exploiting the legal system. It demands that those men uphold their provider status to maintain a harem. It happens to be a religion that is worshipped by brown people, but is not explicitly for Arabs, despite Arabs asserting doctrinal superiority. Finally, when push comes to shove, they are violent and are not paralyzed by optics. Trucks of Peace are pretty hard to stop when they can happen at any time with little organization.


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## anustart76 (Dec 6, 2022)

"Incels" in their current form are a result of the destruction of western society and its general breakdown of the relationship between men and women. I'm not going to type an essay going into all the details, but it could have been stopped if not for the Federal Reserve causing the inflation we have today and women being forced into the labor market. In short, women were forced into the labor market for economic reasons (they have to work so the family can make what the man's salary alone was worth historically), then sold the lie that they could "have it all" all the while being told to act like men. All this results in women with massively inflated self-worth (they won't marry down in terms of income, and thanks to dating apps they all expect a perfect man following the 6666 rule) gravitating to the few male "winners" in society while the rest are left to pick up the leftovers. Incels are only a part of the wider problem, which is that male-female relations have been absolutely destroyed in the west. In fact, there's a female counterpart to the "incel," the used-up middle-aged career woman who can't find a suitable man for herself. The "wine aunt" more or less.


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## MagneticTowels (Dec 6, 2022)

Absolutely. Incels are the byproduct of decades of relentless narcissistic abuse from women.


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## Narutard (Dec 6, 2022)

Incels are boring. Simple as.
Dress it up however you want, call them insecure, clingy, unattractive or whatever; at the end of the day they’re nothing but a bore.
Blame whatever you want, women, glowies, chemicals in the water… The world around you changing won’t make you any less of a bore.


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## Dr. Plussy Pounder (Dec 6, 2022)

Drag-on Knight 91873 said:


> Which is why I've said the next Hitler will be Muslim. Islam is the anti-feminist, anti-Liberal philosophy that happens to have all the answers that incels want to hear. Sharia Law demands women to have a higher burden of proof, which prevents people like Amber Heard from exploiting the legal system. It demands that those men uphold their provider status to maintain a harem. It happens to be a religion that is worshipped by brown people, but is not explicitly for Arabs, despite Arabs asserting doctrinal superiority. Finally, when push comes to shove, they are violent and are not paralyzed by optics. Trucks of Peace are pretty hard to stop when they can happen at any time with little organization.


In Europe? Absolutely.

I wouldn't count out a Christian revival entirely, though. There's also that recent plot to reinstate the Prussian nobility. 

The next 20 years are going to be interesting. So many useful idiots to dispose of and make fun history along the way, huh?


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## Ingmar Aspergman (Dec 6, 2022)

Narutard said:


> Incels are boring. Simple as.
> Dress it up however you want, call them insecure, clingy, unattractive or whatever; at the end of the day they’re nothing but a bore.
> Blame whatever you want, women, glowies, chemicals in the water… The world around you changing won’t make you any less of a bore.


Implying conversely that women are interesting


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## Happy Fish (Dec 6, 2022)

Incel is the postmodernist way of flipping "slut shaming" on its head. You don't like vapid whores? Well, I guess you are an incel.

Complete retards latched onto this as an identity for reasons.


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## Catler (Dec 6, 2022)

Incels were not avoidable because they've always existed. Are there more these days? I don't know.

The only time I really feel bad for them is the fact that their life prospects are much worse. Renting as a single person is much harder these days and buying a house on a single salary is basically not possible. There are definite limits on how far they can progress without a partner if things keep going the way they are in terms of afforability.


Ingmar Aspergman said:


> Implying conversely that women are interesting


Women don't have to be interesting, men largely don't care so long as they put out.


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## RussianParasite (Dec 6, 2022)

Drag-on Knight 91873 said:


> We used to call it arranged marriage. It was deemed sexist and TBF, it did infringe upon individual freedom of association in favor of the parents' ambitions.


I know a few people that are in arranged marriages and they seem to be quite happy with it. A lot of arranged marriages are really two sets of parents introducing their kids and suggesting (and highly encouraging) that they get married if they at least kind of like each other— at least that is the way the ones I know of work. I don’t get it at all how it is sexist.

There should probably be a distinction between “forced” marriages and “arranged” marriages, because the former is kind of shitty and the latter might actually not be the worst for society.


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## The Fuck's Going On Here (Dec 6, 2022)

Not really. Incels could be minimised but you can never get completely rid of them, simply cause in any society there will ALWAYS be some amount of low worth men, just like there will always be some of low worth women. Especially because a lot of 'value' is nebulous to say the least, especially once you get beyond the "fulfills basic biological and psychological needs" bit.
Thing is though it's slightly easier for women because the whole biological "they control rate of reproduction" bit. But even then, there's a reason cat ladies and wine aunts exist.
That being said, i imagine most of the reason inceldom/femceldom has become so big is basically a mix of the following reasons
1) growth of the net to the level it has, plus the rise of social media and online communities
2) loss of purpose for a lot of men, that is assuaged (though not fixed) with the internet and other retarded shit that's basically a dopamine hit, but not really fulfilling or capable of causing growth.
3) an environment which not only is slowly eroding the value of responsibility and growth, but at times, actively speaking out against it in favor of gibs
4) the same environment putting way too much pressure on getting a relationship (or , more accurately, getting laid), that it starts causing a natural desperation in a lot of people for that to the detriment of their focusing on growth.
5) A lack of perspective on options, priorities and long term vs short term growth. Nowadays everyone wants their partner to be 'all there and steady from the get-go', rather than thinking of both as a 'work in progress' who will work with one another to grow with time.
6)  A metric fuckton of porn. Arguments can be had on whether it's causing it, or if it's simply feeding the fire, but shit like onlyfans is giving the dopamine hit without fulfilling any of the other requisite requirements of a relationship. And worse than just the regular porn is the "relationship porn" i.e. the titty streamers and the like who're giving the 'girlfriend experience' without actually being the girlfriend (or even actually having sex with them). It makes the guys simp, and once they realised she's never gonna actually be their girlfriend, many of them go dooming into inceldom.
There's also other stuff there (political, economic, societal) that is also feeding into the lack of growth which leads to inceldom.

As for what to do about it, getting back to local communities and focusing on personal growth and responsibility first and all the other shit Jordan Peterson talks about are necessary.
But on a 'big step' level, I'd very much want to see a carpet bombing of all social media headquarters. Flatten it all.


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## urr13 account (Dec 6, 2022)

"Incels" have been a fact of humanity since the early days, 8000 years ago 17 women reproduced for every 1 man so 1 guys knocked up 17 women and 16 guys never scored.

Supposedly 1 in 3 men in the U.S. reported having no sexual activity in the last year (2020).

So up to 33% of men would be incels, that number seems high but basically, monogamy/marriage culture was designed in part to give each man a reason to be invested in society. Now we have a growing portion of men who have zero investment in society and have basically been cast out.

There is said to be an epidemic of loneliness right now, and incels are part of that, unfortunately for them as they are young men society is completely comfortable bullying and belittling them for not being able to develop relationships. The dehumanization of young men for the crime of not being able to get a girlfriend likely worsens the issue.

I suppose you could say it was avoidable if we had a society that culturally enforced monogamy, but those societies have their own downsides.


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## Biden's Chosen (Dec 6, 2022)

murph said:


> Funny that "incel" attaches to men when it was a woman who came up with the term.
> 
> There are lots of unfuckable people. Making it a feedback loop into an inescapable neurosis is a modern thing. Emily Dickinson was an "incel".


There aren't a lot of unfuckable women but there are a lot of unfuckable men.

There are a lot of unlovable women, though.






This is the reason femcel is more accurate and common, but since it doesn't get under the skin the same way things like cat lady /wine aunt are more common insults.


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## Drag-on Knight 91873 (Dec 6, 2022)

RussianParasite said:


> I know a few people that are in arranged marriages and they seem to be quite happy with it. A lot of arranged marriages are really two sets of parents introducing their kids and suggesting (and highly encouraging) that they get married if they at least kind of like each other— at least that is the way the ones I know of work. I don’t get it at all how it is sexist.
> 
> There should probably be a distinction between “forced” marriages and “arranged” marriages, because the former is kind of shitty and the latter might actually not be the worst for society.


Today it's mostly a suggestion when in the past, "highly encouraged" could also be a soft power euphemism for coercion such as getting removed from the will or being disowned by the family. There's also the problem of the lost opportunity when meeting someone who's way more compatible than the current spouse and the temptation that affair offers.

There are flaws to arranged marriages. I just think the flaws aren't as bad as the benefits. Especially when the practice of marrying for love between two individuals has not worked out well for society. Our current practice of no-fault divorce is just retarded and has created at least one generation of people cynical towards romance, if not every successive one.


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## Haint (Dec 6, 2022)

Yes, late abortion at 25. Get laid, or die trying.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Dec 6, 2022)

RMQualtrough said:


> Therapy is a longcon.


If I had to pay for it myself I doubt I would, but therapy through the university has helped me, but mainly because I don't want to exasperate the therapist (even though I know he's paid to be nice and positive), so I will myself to greater efforts - doing things I don't want to do/are scared to do - than I could for other people in my life who are negative.


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## Drag-on Knight 91873 (Dec 7, 2022)

Plussy Pounder said:


> In Europe? Absolutely.
> 
> I wouldn't count out a Christian revival entirely, though. There's also that recent plot to reinstate the Prussian nobility.
> 
> The next 20 years are going to be interesting. So many useful idiots to dispose of and make fun history along the way, huh?


I would. Christianity as a religion is so cucked these days.


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## Narutard (Dec 7, 2022)

Ingmar Aspergman said:


> Implying conversely that women are interesting


Women are the least of their problems. How many friends do they have? What do they do for a living? What do they do in their spare time?
Answer: None; dead-end job; nothing.


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## AMHOLIO (Dec 7, 2022)

So throughout time, you have people who believe they are owed something even if they provide nothing and actively make things worse for others.  Make no mistake, this goes for both genders.  Even with dating classes or positive reinforcement & good culture, these douchebags would be the ones to slip through the cracks no matter how much they were taught otherwise.  They would also find a group of like minded people on the internet merely by existing. 

An incel/femcel in an arranged marriage likely will be paired up with a woman/man he sees as below him, and will still have the incel mentality of being owed good pussy/top tier dick, even if she's a nice wo/man, just not much of a looker.   They'll resent, ignore, or take out their anger on said spouse and abuse them.

I go on the loveshy incel dichotomy Ughuhu said earlier in the thread.  Loveshies can become incels or they can even hide out among incels, but usually they reform.  Incel


I say we don't see many violent female incels because it isn't how women play the game: most awful women who feel they are owed something and take it out on the other gender tend to be better at manipulating other people, even if it's just enough to fool men and women with super low self confidence they can use and abuse.  That and the male commodity (pump and dump then society telling you lol if you die in war vs 9 months to have baby) feeling breeds a different kind of shitty entitled person.  There's definite femcels out there, most men just don't look in the places they gather because they're usually places filled with socially awkward women with women hobbies in niche spaces online.  They're still bitter, resentful, mean, and entitled, they just aren't as likely to make the news since they don't take action and brood silently.


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## anustart76 (Dec 7, 2022)

Ingmar Aspergman said:


> Implying conversely that women are interesting





Catler said:


> Incels were not avoidable because they've always existed. Are there more these days? I don't know.
> 
> The only time I really feel bad for them is the fact that their life prospects are much worse. Renting as a single person is much harder these days and buying a house on a single salary is basically not possible. There are definite limits on how far they can progress without a partner if things keep going the way they are in terms of afforability.
> 
> Women don't have to be interesting, men largely don't care so long as they put out.


And as a result women are even more boring than incels. They don't have to develop a personality, so most of them don't. At least incels usually have some kind of hobby or other interest.


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## AMHOLIO (Dec 7, 2022)

anustart76 said:


> And as a result women are even more boring than incels. They don't have to develop a personality, so most of them don't. At least incels usually have some kind of hobby or other interest.


Why marry a woman if she's boring?  What's the solution to that?


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Dec 7, 2022)

Is she helpful? Useful? Loyal?
There's more to a person than having them alleviate boredom. Strippers and whores can do that for you. If that's what you desire from the people in your life then there's no need for anything which isn't shallow. But if you're looking for a partner of use to you and understand that utility inherent in someones support then you can truly understand not only marriage then anything to do with people.


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## ToroidalBoat (Dec 7, 2022)

Incels seem to have become a thing after "social media" took off, so maybe there's a connection?


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## anustart76 (Dec 8, 2022)

AMHOLIO said:


> Why marry a woman if she's boring?  What's the solution to that?


Their personalities usually don't matter that much, that's the point. You marry her for your future children.


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## AMHOLIO (Dec 8, 2022)

anustart76 said:


> Their personalities usually don't matter that much, that's the point. You marry her for your future children.


Why do you marry her and stay around then?  Why don't you have sex, make sure she's pregnant, then leave?

And what if she has a personality you don't like that's passed to your children?


----------



## 56 others (Dec 8, 2022)

It has never been easier to reach adulthood as a completely disfunctional person. There have always been incels, but now there are more of them due to a surplus of males, ease of life not forcing people to become "strong", hoeflation, unrealistic standards set by social media, the mental health crisis (itself caused by many of these factors), and much much more. Im sure a lot of these issues could have been avoided, if we had any idea what the information age would bring us beyond what scifi authors wrote.


----------



## Wesley Willis (Dec 8, 2022)

There were always worthless people. We now possess the technology to broadcast it all and the voyeuristic attitude to consume it.


----------



## The Foxtrot (Dec 11, 2022)

AMHOLIO said:


> Why do you marry her and stay around then?  Why don't you have sex, make sure she's pregnant, then leave?
> 
> And what if she has a personality you don't like that's passed to your children?


I have no idea where dudes got the idea that a woman's personality doesn't matter. Let me tell you, from watching older family members in unhappy marriages bicker, you do _*NOT*_ want to marry a woman who you're incompatible with. Both of you are going to either grow old and become bitter, angry, petty assholes towards each other, or you're going to get a messy divorce that nobody will benefit from. God help any children who get caught up in the middle of it all.


Wesley Willis said:


> There were always worthless people. We now possess the technology to broadcast it all and the voyeuristic attitude to consume it.


The very fact that _Keeping Up With The Kardashians_ even got as much viewership as it did (and still does?) is disturbing. The common culture of today _encourages_ being a trashy, crass idiot who doesn't contribute jack shit.


----------



## AMHOLIO (Dec 12, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> I have no idea where dudes got the idea that a woman's personality doesn't matter. Let me tell you, from watching older family members in unhappy marriages bicker, you do _*NOT*_ want to marry a woman who you're incompatible with. Both of you are going to either grow old and become bitter, angry, petty assholes towards each other, or you're going to get a messy divorce that nobody will benefit from. God help any children who get caught up in the middle of it all.


This is a man who will marry a woman, have kids, then abandon them.  If fate felt extra ironic, he'd have a boy and that boy would say and do the same thing his theoretical father did, continuing to abandon children but blame it on mom because daddy didn't marry right and it's her fault for not pleasing him when all he wanted was to pass his genes down.


I wracked my brain for a whole day after reading "women don't have personalities" to understand what life circumstances he had that caused him to come up with that, and my only theory now is that he's too goddamn autistic to see most people as human beings and his theory of mind is shit.


----------



## I Love Beef (Dec 12, 2022)

To start, let me start that I have no sympathy for incels. They are more fucking crazy than schizos. I believe the lot of them should be put down.

And I don't know if this counts as powerleveling, but there's a lot of common things that I've noticed that lolcows and I have in common, yet, brings to mind "why am I not a deluded sadsack" like them? Which I'd like to make my first point off of: being an incel is done out of choice.

I'm not going to entirely blame society. I'm not going to entirely blame the current progress of technology. Incels have fucked up priorities and made incredibly shitty choices. There's plenty of shit to blame society and technology for, but if it's for incels, that's all on them.

I agree with a lot of things other farmers have said. Vapid shit is common place nowadays, twisted extremes of beauty and aesthetic are venerated to an unhealthy, materialistic degree, "romance" has been bastardized by overt materialistic possessions, there is little love of what is "natural". At the same time, have any incels rebelled or thought to not participate in this shit?

That's what cracks me up. "Involuntarily Celibate". Maybe the fact is that they're "incels" because they're competing in horseshit that doesn't really fucking matter in the first place, and that if something's values/priorities are fucked up, then maybe you shouldn't participate in them in the first place.

IF there's something I'd like to blame about society, it's the fact that society or their families or whatever fed into them the shit they bought, like "the ideal life" or the "true American way" or whatever fucky normalfaggoty conformist horseshit they've been eating the last years of their lives, and thought they'd get a prize at the end of the tunnel. But at the same time, they're the ones who never realized the first sign of shit going south and never thought to get out while they could.

And I agree, people do need spirituality and religion in their lives. This fake construct of a world of instant gratification makes it one of overt unhealthy competition for a wider reality where life doesn't work like that. And I'm not a guy for doomposting or being some fucktard prophet on the street corner, but do not hang out with the so-called powerful or those chosen to be in charge, because if they can't pin the blame you if you're near, they'll sure be happy to use you to cushion the blows when everyone has had enough of their fuckery. They always make their beds, and they always get to sleep in them.

tl;dr incels are stupid dumbass motherfuckers. If "survival of the fittest" is in play, they're all weak ass meat.


----------



## Wesley Willis (Dec 12, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> The very fact that _Keeping Up With The Kardashians_ even got as much viewership as it did (and still does?) is disturbing. The common culture of today _encourages_ being a trashy, crass idiot who doesn't contribute jack shit.


The first run of show ended two years ago amid the pandemic and cable TV dying. It got no streams on Peacock (Comcast owns E!), so they recently revived the show on Hulu, which has 3 million less subscribers than Peacock at this point. No one cares about the show, it's a vanity project for mentally ill celebutards at this point. If the Kardashians weren't influencers, their careers would have ended a long time ago. That's why they are still around.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

There is an inherent imbalance in power between male and female relationships in a society that does not permit rape. Women are choosy with men to increase their evolutionary success. And men are powerful and capable of raping and killing women to increase their evolutionary success.

I am not saying that we should legalize or tolerate rape, but I am saying that men are in a lose-lose situation and there is no hope.


----------



## SSj_Ness (Dec 12, 2022)

"Let it fester"? It's not like schizophrenia, or meth heads, or something. Back in my day, guys who couldn't get laid were just called losers/virgins, laughed at, and forgotten. 

It's not like society has a vested interest in whether or not everyone gets laid.


----------



## Uberpenguin (Dec 12, 2022)

The problem is that "incel" is a pretty nebulous term.
How much effort does a person have to put in without getting any to be considered an incel?

I know for sure there are a lot of guys out there who aren't getting laid not because there's no women anywhere who'd sleep with them, but simply because they're incapable of maintaining a serious relationship and don't like the idea of pursuing casual sex with people they have little or no emotional attachment to.

Even most angry, self-identified incels could probably scrape together enough money to afford a prostitute once in a while, but they don't for a variety of reasons. Are they still incels then, or are they "volcels"?

There are people who are nominally in relationships, but they have a dissatisfying and almost non-existent sex life. Do they count as incels?

There are a lot of issues surrounding forming relationships and families, but ultimately the entire concept of the incel thing is just pretty dumb and usually has remarkably little to do with sex, which is stupid to treat as a binary entity to begin with.



AMHOLIO said:


> I wracked my brain for a whole day after reading "women don't have personalities" to understand what life circumstances he had that caused him to come up with that, and my only theory now is that he's too goddamn autistic to see most people as human beings and his theory of mind is shit.


Well women can often be less aggressive about exerting their personality, and they tend to be more socially suggestible meaning they can often wind up going along with what other people are saying and doing which can read as them not having an independent personality.

Obviously not all women and that can apply to men and all that, but I think every dude's dealt with those women who have the personality of skim milk who just defer to you any time you say anything and have no interests or opinions of their own. To me that's a fairly unattractive feature, but I'm sure a lot of internet retards probably think that's trad and desirable or some shit.


----------



## AMHOLIO (Dec 12, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> Even most angry, self-identified incels could probably scrape together enough money to afford a prostitute once in a while, but they don't for a variety of reasons. Are they still incels then, or are they "volcels"?


I think incels will classify themselves as incels based on this, where some will say it's voluntary and others will say it doesn't matter, no one will sleep with prostitutes willingly for the most part since they're undesirables.  I think Wizards are much harsher on no touching women ever, while incels seems to be a combination of hatred of more successful men, women that never meet their standards, and society who won't hand them high status on a platter.  

People who just call any man frustrated with dating an incel has oversimplified things.  It's better to call the men/women who say they are incels incels, and maybe the rest are just frustrated/depressed about dating, or are virgins with rage.



Uberpenguin said:


> There are people who are nominally in relationships, but they have a dissatisfying and almost non-existent sex life. Do they count as incels?


I'm laughing at this possible scenario: "My bf/gf says we can't have sex yet until we hit the right time but they will sleep with the rest of the polycule just fine, wish it was my turn.  But they said the rest of our polycule isn't special enough for anything but casual sex so it's actually a win guys!"



Uberpenguin said:


> Obviously not all women and that can apply to men and all that, but I think every dude's dealt with those women who have the personality of skim milk who just defer to you any time you say anything and have no interests or opinions of their own. To me that's a fairly unattractive feature, but I'm sure a lot of internet retards probab


Yeah that's my other thought: wahmen do be more socially susceptible and it can really mute a person to always go with the flow or be a part of the group (then develop resentment for it and take it out on others like an asshat).  It's totally understandable to not like that portion.


----------



## Kel1 shi1 (Dec 12, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> The problem is that "incel" is a pretty nebulous term.
> How much effort does a person have to put in without getting any to be considered an incel?



Incels have become a convenient scapegoat for the failure of something relating to women by journalists. Of course without any supporting evidence. Incel to them is just an insult that I read as "Turbo virgins LOL" from those smug fucks.

Every man on this planet was an incel by definition because they couldn't lose their virginity as soon as they wanted too.


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> I have no idea where dudes got the idea that a woman's personality doesn't matter. Let me tell you, from watching older family members in unhappy marriages bicker, you do _*NOT*_ want to marry a woman who you're incompatible with. Both of you are going to either grow old and become bitter, angry, petty assholes towards each other, or you're going to get a messy divorce that nobody will benefit from. God help any children who get caught up in the middle of it all.


It's shocking how there are people, some on this very site, who think compatibility means nothing.

Yes, they are also self-confessed incels, and misogynists.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> There is an inherent imbalance in power between male and female relationships in a society that does not permit rape. Women are choosy with men to increase their evolutionary success. And men are powerful and capable of raping and killing women to increase their evolutionary success.
> 
> I am not saying that we should legalize or tolerate rape, but I am saying that men are in a lose-lose situation and there is no hope.


This is one of them.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> It's shocking how there are people, some on this very site, who think compatibility means nothing.
> 
> Yes, they are also self-confessed incels, and misogynists.





Bunny Tracks said:


> This is one of them.



Indeed. I do hate women. And women deserve it.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> There is an inherent imbalance in power between male and female relationships in a society that does not permit rape.


There's also an inherent imbalance in power between male and female relationships in a society that *does*.

Maybe it has to do with men and women not being equal beyond ontology.

Maybe it's a feature of relationships in general being unequal because of the priorities, assets, and deficits of each party involved.


SSj_Ness said:


> It's not like society has a vested interest in whether or not everyone gets laid.


They do when it's time to shit on you when you're not doing what they want.


----------



## The Foxtrot (Dec 12, 2022)

I Love Beef said:


> To start, let me start that I have no sympathy for incels. They are more fucking crazy than schizos. I believe the lot of them should be put down.
> 
> And I don't know if this counts as powerleveling, but there's a lot of common things that I've noticed that lolcows and I have in common, yet, brings to mind "why am I not a deluded sadsack" like them? Which I'd like to make my first point off of: being an incel is done out of choice.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. Most "incels" are just idiots who are mad at the world that they weren't born into status/wealth, resenting the system they think failed them, while not realizing they don't have to play this shitty game in the first place. 
That, and they completely lack self-awareness when it comes to desirability. They never think to themselves "Gee, why _would_ a woman want to date me or let me fuck her? I smell like I've never bathed in my life, I have no job, I dress like a child/crackhead, I have no social skills, and I live with my parents.", but they have these insanely unrealistic standards for what they profess to be their "perfect woman".


Wesley Willis said:


> The first run of show ended two years ago amid the pandemic and cable TV dying. It got no streams on Peacock (Comcast owns E!), so they recently revived the show on Hulu, which has 3 million less subscribers than Peacock at this point. No one cares about the show, it's a vanity project for mentally ill celebutards at this point. If the Kardashians weren't influencers, their careers would have ended a long time ago. That's why they are still around.


I was just using that as an example of the sort of shit society these days holds up on a pedestal.


Uberpenguin said:


> The problem is that "incel" is a pretty nebulous term.
> How much effort does a person have to put in without getting any to be considered an incel?
> 
> I know for sure there are a lot of guys out there who aren't getting laid not because there's no women anywhere who'd sleep with them, but simply because they're incapable of maintaining a serious relationship and don't like the idea of pursuing casual sex with people they have little or no emotional attachment to.
> ...


At this point, I personally take the term "incel" as merely a gutter-level insult. Someone calling you an "incel" has the same meaning as "racist" in my mind's eye ; it's a meaningless insult usually thrown out as a complete diversion from the original conversation.

As far as what I think actually constitutes an "involuntary celibate", I think of someone like Elliot Roger. He had the looks, he had money and status (which incels worship), but not even that was enough to compensate for the fact that he was an entitled little shithead who didn't know how to treat other people. He wanted a woman as a status symbol, not as a partner or even easy sex. For him (and actual incels), not being married or in a relationship with a woman is seen as a "fail state" in their lives. For them, I think, it's the simple state of being a "boyfriend" or "husband" to a woman that they're chasing, mixed in with some sexual frustration. And when they can't get their _deserved!_ status symbol wife/girlfriend, they lash out at the people around them and Society(TM) for not giving it to them.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Indeed. I do hate women. And women deserve it.


I'm going to waste my time and give you some advice. 

You say most women don't meet your standard these days (not prepared to commit to raising a family). That still means not all. There are some. You might even meet one, stranger things have happened. 

When you do, if you are in this "I hate women" mindset, this woman is going to smell that on you. She isn't going to like it. It might well chase her off. 

I think the best thing to do is just not focus on women, for now. Don't let those thoughts poison your mind, because even if what you think is true, it's unhealthy to fixate on it.


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## Poop Shoot (Dec 12, 2022)

Yeah, why wouldn’t a beautiful woman want to trade the best years of her life in for a mediocre man who expects her to regularly have disappointing sex after being poked at with filthy nails - clitoris completely ignored, be the maid, the caregiver, raise your shitty autistic children, be your therapist, and somehow also bring in a full time income?

A mystery, it is.

Men benefit from marriage more than woman.  In fact, woman statistically are happier without marriage, it actually shortens their lives.  If you want women and marriage and a life together - Be a better option than being her alone.  Because you have no idea the resentment that builds up when a wife knows she’d have a happier life without a big man baby to cater to.

And then these man act like they have no idea why their wives divorce them.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> I'm going to waste my time and give you some advice.
> 
> You say most women don't meet your standard these days (not prepared to commit to raising a family). That still means not all. There are some. You might even meet one, stranger things have happened.
> 
> ...


Absolutely not but thanks for the gesture. 

I would rather just raise a child on my own.


----------



## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Absolutely not but thanks for the gesture.
> 
> I would rather just raise a child on my own.


That's not healthy for the child either. It's not the end of the world, and many fine people have come from single parent homes, but men and women are different and fulfil different roles a child needs. It's selfish to set out to deprive a child of its mother.


----------



## SSj_Ness (Dec 12, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> The problem is that "incel" is a pretty nebulous term.
> How much effort does a person have to put in without getting any to be considered an incel?
> 
> I know for sure there are a lot of guys out there who aren't getting laid not because there's no women anywhere who'd sleep with them, but simply because they're incapable of maintaining a serious relationship and don't like the idea of pursuing casual sex with people they have little or no emotional attachment to.
> ...


Well, it's not a nebulous term but people seem to use it beyond its literal meaning. Involuntary celibate simply means people who cannot manage to engage in consensual sex with another person. They're celibate...involuntarily.

It's used to refer to people who are in situations you described but that shouldn't be the case. If someone just isn't putting any effort into getting laid then that's not involuntary. By that logic all straight men are "involuntary non-fags" for not trying to fuck men, it's a bit nonsensical.


----------



## The Last Stand (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Absolutely not but thanks for the gesture.
> 
> I would rather just raise a child on my own.


Destroy a family dynamic to own the feminists!


----------



## Wesley Willis (Dec 12, 2022)

The tradcuck incels are the worst. Want to go straight from not bathing for days to raising a family. Good thing you won't reproduce anyway. Just wish natural selection applied to more people than a bunch of fucking weebz.


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> That's not healthy for the child either. It's not the end of the world, and many fine people have come from single parent homes, but men and women are different and fulfil different roles a child needs. It's selfish to set out to deprive a child of its mother.


Not to mention being raised by a self-admitted misogynist, and rape apologist (and let's face it, probable actual rapist at this point. If not now, then eventual given his attitude) is way worse than being raised by a single mother.


----------



## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Not to mention being raised by a self-admitted misogynist, and rape apologist (and let's face it, probable actual rapist) is way worse than being raised by a single mother.


I didn't think bringing that up would sway him so I avoided that argument.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> That's not healthy for the child either. It's not the end of the world, and many fine people have come from single parent homes, but men and women are different and fulfil different roles a child needs. It's selfish to set out to deprive a child of its mother.


Everyone in this thread can say that a woman will be willing to stay in a man and a child's life for the entirety of what is necessary. That doesn't make it true. Women will always leave. Without a doubt, without exception. And starting a family knowing that it is going to be broken apart is worse than raising a child in a broken family to start.

And by the way, only an idiot isn't selfish. No one is going to look out for you but you. 


The Last Stand said:


> Destroy a family dynamic to own the feminists!


It is not about owning feminists. It is about protecting myself and my child from the woman who would steal from and then abandon us.


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> I didn't think bringing that up would sway him so I avoided that argument.


It's best to just address it head-on instead of ignoring it. Judging by what he's said here, and in other threads, not calling it out immediately is a disservice.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Everyone in this thread can say that a woman will be willing to stay in a man and a child's life for the entirety of what is necessary. That doesn't make it true. Women will always leave. Without a doubt, without exception. And starting a family knowing that it is going to be broken apart is worse than raising a child in a broken family to start.
> 
> And by the way, only an idiot isn't selfish. No one is going to look out for you but you.
> 
> It is not about owning feminists. It is about protecting myself and my child from the woman who would steal from and then abandon us.


You mention women leaving a lot. Did your mother do that? 

Also, what happens if your child happens to be a girl? Will you view her the same as you do other women?


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> You mention women leaving a lot. Did your mother do that?
> 
> Also, what happens if your child happens to be a girl? Will you view her the same as you do other women?


She did. So did my stepmother. So did basically every other woman my father dated when I was growing up. And people call me selfish. No way. I could never hurt someone the way they hurt other people. Every article online is just women looking for some excuse to dump a guy, to leave a guy, to cheat. It's sickening.

And hey, fuck you. I was just having a discussion, and you turn around and say that I'm going to commit crimes? Based on what, that I don't like women? You can't harm someone if you're never around them. Do you understand what hatred means? It means I don't want to look at women. It means I don't want to be anywhere near them. I deal with women enough at work, I avoid them like the plague when I'm outside it.

As far as what happens if my child is a girl, I will raise her to be respectful, loyal and polite, just like my father did for me. Family is completely different. I don't have any problems with my aunt or my female cousin or my grandmother.


----------



## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> She did. So did my stepmother. So did basically every other woman my father dated when I was growing up.


Maybe he was an asshole.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> . I don't have any problems with my aunt or my female cousin or my grandmother.


I'm guessing you are in more of a rural community where family tends to matter more.

How do you deal with women at work if you don't even want to look at them? Do you have to speak to them?


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> And hey, fuck you. I was just having a discussion, and you turn around and say that I'm going to commit crimes? Based on what, that I don't like women? You can't harm someone if you're never around them. Do you understand what hatred means? It means I don't want to look at women. It means I don't want to be anywhere near them. I deal with women enough at work, I avoid them like the plague when I'm outside it.


Dude, all I'm saying is that anyone who says this:-

_*"There is an inherent imbalance in power between male and female relationships in a society that does not permit rape. Women are choosy with men to increase their evolutionary success. And men are powerful and capable of raping and killing women to increase their evolutionary success.*_

_*I am not saying that we should legalize or tolerate rape, but I am saying that men are in a lose-lose situation and there is no hope."*_

-has either already hurt someone, or is pretty damn close to actually doing so, and should not be near any children, let alone actually raising some themselves.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> Maybe he was an asshole.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you are in more of a rural community where family tends to matter more.
> ...


You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Of course I have to look at women, speak to them. It's work. You deal with all the shit you don't want to, collect your paycheck and go home. I'm sure there are plenty of aspects of your job that you don't like too.


Bunny Tracks said:


> Dude, all I'm saying is that anyone who says this:-
> 
> _*"There is an inherent imbalance in power between male and female relationships in a society that does not permit rape. Women are choosy with men to increase their evolutionary success. And men are powerful and capable of raping and killing women to increase their evolutionary success.
> 
> ...


And you are absolutely incorrect. I can speak frankly and honestly about human nature without ever getting violent. You called me a rape apologist and I absolutely am. I do not give a single shit about women being raped because I am not a woman in the same way that I do not give a single shit about other men being robbed because those men are not me. I have enough problems in my life without worrying about people I don't know and have never met. Being apathetic is not the same as wishing harm upon others. There is no hidden meaning behind anything I'm saying, if I wanted to harm or rape women I would admit to it freely.


----------



## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.


About what, you being rural or your dad being an asshole?



Don't Tread on Me said:


> . I do not give a single shit about women being raped because I am not a woman in the same way that I do not give a single shit about other men being robbed because those men are not me


I'd actually say this makes you not a misogynist, in some twisted sort of way. You're just a fucking psychopath/sociopath who doesn't care about anything that isn't useful to you. Can you get a reservation at the Dorsia?


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> And you are absolutely incorrect. I can speak frankly and honestly about human nature without ever getting violent. You called me a rape apologist and I absolutely am. I do not give a single shit about women being raped because I am not a woman in the same way that I do not give a single shit about other men being robbed because those men are not me. I have enough problems in my life without worrying about people I don't know and have never met. Being apathetic is not the same as wishing harm upon others. There is no hidden meaning behind anything I'm saying, if I wanted to harm or rape women I would admit to it freely.





Don't Tread on Me said:


> I will raise her to be respectful, loyal and polite, *just like my father did for me.*


Lmao.

Does your dad know about this btw? Like about your views on women? Are they the same as his?


Stabmaster Arson II said:


> About what, you being rural or your dad being an asshole?
> 
> 
> I'd actually say this makes you not a misogynist, in some twisted sort of way. You're just a fucking psychopath/sociopath who doesn't care about anything that isn't useful to you. Can you get a reservation at the Dorsia?


Well, you know what they say.

 Daddy issues make you a people-pleaser.

Mommy issues make you a sociopath.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Dec 12, 2022)

The notion of "involuntary celibacy" doesn't make sense, anyhow, since celibacy is intrinsically voluntary.

It's not as if the complex that "incel" refers to isn't real, it's just that the term is dumb.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> About what, you being rural or your dad being an asshole?


My father.


Stabmaster Arson II said:


> I'd actually say this makes you not a misogynist, in some twisted sort of way. You're just a fucking psychopath/sociopath who doesn't care about anything that isn't useful to you. Can you get a reservation at the Dorsia?


What the hell is a Dorsia? Some restaurant for rich people? No lol. 

But that's weird that you would admit that family matters to me and then immediately say I'm a sociopath, that sounds like it contradicts a bit. 

I call myself a misogynist because women make me angry in ways that men do not.


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Lmao.
> 
> Does your dad know about this btw? Like about your views on women? Are they the same as his?


He does know and it makes him cringe and he chastises me every time I bring it up, but he respects me enough to have a discussion about things he disagrees with. We don't talk about women too much though, too busy dealing with my grandmother's health and work and other things in life.


Bunny Tracks said:


> Well, you know what they say.
> 
> Daddy issues make you a people-pleaser.
> 
> Mommy issues make you a sociopath.


And whose fault is that, exactly? You act as though I haven't been wronged by women. I notice you went out of your way to ask me if my mother had left and then when I said she had you didn't have any follow-up.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> But that's weird that you would admit that family matters to me and then immediately say I'm a sociopath, that sounds like it contradicts a bit


I said you only care about things that are useful to you. I assume your family is. 



Don't Tread on Me said:


> My father.


At least we know you've talked to him about this. 

I don't want to sound patronising, but are there any social type places you can go in your town or are you just insulated among your family? Outside of work I mean. Any bars at least? Or swimming pools,  fuck I don't know paintball? I think you need to live a bit more out in the world mate, it would do you good.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> I don't want to sound patronising, but are there any social type places you can go in your town or are you just insulated among your family? Outside of work I mean. Any bars at least? Or swimming pools,  fuck I don't know paintball? I think you need to live a bit more out in the world mate, it would do you good.


Are you trying to get me banned for power leveling or something?

At this point, no. I tried making friends a few times and each time I ended up driving people off. I am entirely insulated and really my family only tolerates me out of pity.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> At this point, no. I tried making friends a few times and each time I ended up driving people off. I am entirely insulated and really my family only tolerates me out of pity.


Ever think maybe the problem is you?


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> He does know and it makes him cringe and he chastises me every time I bring it up, but he respects me enough to have a discussion about things he disagrees with. We don't talk about women too much though, too busy dealing with my grandmother's health and work and other things in life.
> 
> And whose fault is that, exactly? You act as though I haven't been wronged by women. I notice you went out of your way to ask me if my mother had left and then when I said she had you didn't have any follow-up.


So, you know he wouldn't be happy with you being like this? What about your grandmother? I know you said you don't mind the women in your family outside your mother, and stepmother, but holy shit, imagine finding out your grandson is a rape apologist.

I'm not saying you haven't been wronged by women, but it's not like every woman in the entire world hurt you. I'd say the same thing if this the genders were reversed too.


Stabmaster Arson II said:


> I don't want to sound patronising, but are there any social type places you can go in your town or are you just insulated among your family? Outside of work I mean. Any bars at least? Or swimming pools, fuck I don't know paintball? I think you need to live a bit more out in the world mate, it would do you good.


He likes Yugioh. Maybe there's a local game shop that holds tournaments, or whatever, and he could meet someone there? 

Yeah, I know it's a stretch, but it'd be something. They'd even have something in common. Not that that would actually matter to him, though.


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## based.1488 (Dec 12, 2022)

Incels are considered freak by nature and there little that can be changed. Incels is 50% genetics and 50% caused my modern feminism.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 12, 2022)

post cum carpet


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> Ever think maybe the problem is you?


Oh, most certainly, I have plenty of issues. That doesn't mean that women aren't also disgusting, disloyal, materialist cunts. 

But this is who I am. I can't be anyone else. I already hide my true nature when I'm at work, why the hell would I want to hide it when I'm out of work? If I have to lie to make friends, then when they find out the truth they will just not accept it. What benefit is there to trying to make fake friendships?


Bunny Tracks said:


> So, you know he wouldn't be happy with you being like this? What about your grandmother? I know you said you don't mind the women in your family outside your mother, and stepmother, but holy shit, imagine finding out your grandson is a rape apologist.
> 
> I'm not saying you haven't been wronged by women, but it's not like every woman in the entire world hurt you. I'd say the same thing if this the genders were reversed too.


Hah, my grandmother thinks I'm a Democrat and I'll let her think that until her grave. Poor woman. I've had it up to here with her talking about how important it is to defend women's rights to kill their kids, but I just smile and let her talk. I'm happy to let her enjoy her last years with me as best she can.


Bunny Tracks said:


> He likes Yugioh. Maybe there's a local game shop that holds tournaments, or whatever, and he could meet someone there?
> 
> Yeah, I know it's a stretch, but it'd be something. They'd even have something in common. Not that that would actually matter to him, though.


I'm not going to waste money on paper cards and maintaining them, all the Yugioh I play is digital.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I would rather just raise a child on my own.


you won't have to worry about this because you will never have sex


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> you won't have to worry about this because you will never have sex


Thankfully I got a job at a company that helps you pay to adopt kids and even gives you paid leave to settle in to a new family when you adopt.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 12, 2022)

so are you like a diddler or something? 
why do you want to fiddle with kids so bad?


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> If I have to lie to make friends, then when they find out the truth they will just not accept it. What benefit is there to trying to make fake friendships?


Now you've said you're not used to friendships, so I'm going to blow your mind here.

Not all friends agree on all things. You can have friends  who disagree about certain things. I have subjects that my friends know not to bring up, because we discussed them and disagreed, like the Jews. Especially my Jewish friends lol. Even views others can find heinous, sprinkle a little comedy on it and don't be so serious and you can get out of it and go back to talking about something you both like.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> Now you've said you're not used to friendships, so I'm going to blow your mind here.
> 
> Not all friends agree on all things. You can have friends  who disagree about certain things. I have subjects that my friends know not to bring up, because we discussed them and disagreed, like the Jews.Especially my Jewish friends lol. Even views others can fund heinous, sprinkle a little comedy on it and don't be so serious and you can get out of it and go back to talking about something you both like.


I can avoid certain subjects, but I can't hide how much of an asshole I am. That's just my default nature lol. Doesn't matter what I'm talking about, I always sound like a prick because I am a prick, and people think it's insufferable.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 12, 2022)

answer me, damnit


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hah, my grandmother thinks I'm a Democrat and I'll let her think that until her grave. Poor woman. I've had it up to here with her talking about how important it is to defend women's rights to kill their kids, but I just smile and let her talk. I'm happy to let her enjoy her last years with me as best she can.


Okay, now you're just sounding like a cartoon villain, dude. You do seem to like your grandmother enough to be nice to her, though. Why? Was she nice to you growing up?


Don't Tread on Me said:


> I'm not going to waste money on paper cards and maintaining them, all the Yugioh I play is digital.


Same tbh. I used to play irl, but that was years ago. I just play Duel Links, and Master Duel now. What archetypes do you main? I use Infernity, and Darklords.

Anyways, what do you actually do for fun then? You know, outside Yugioh.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Thankfully I got a job at a company that helps you pay to adopt kids and even gives you paid leave to settle in to a new family when you adopt.


What place would even let you adopt, though? Forget the job, adoption agencies usually don't give kids to single men, let alone ones like you.


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## Uberpenguin (Dec 12, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> As far as what I think actually constitutes an "involuntary celibate", I think of someone like Elliot Roger. He had the looks, he had money and status (which incels worship), but not even that was enough to compensate for the fact that he was an entitled little shithead who didn't know how to treat other people. He wanted a woman as a status symbol, not as a partner or even easy sex. For him (and actual incels), not being married or in a relationship with a woman is seen as a "fail state" in their lives. For them, I think, it's the simple state of being a "boyfriend" or "husband" to a woman that they're chasing, mixed in with some sexual frustration. And when they can't get their _deserved!_ status symbol wife/girlfriend, they lash out at the people around them and Society(TM) for not giving it to them.


For sure, that's generally my idea of what an "incel" is, although that's also what I mean about it not truly being about sex. He had the money to pay for a prostitute, but he didn't. So if incels' problem is literally just that they can't get laid that would make no sense. If a prostitute isn't good enough, then it isn't purely about sex, so what's it about and why does anyone bother to make their dry dick the focal point?

So I guess that's my point in respect to the thread, is that there's a confusion in terminology here.
People who cannot obtain sex might be avoidable, but "incels" in the sense we're talking about here probably aren't because their problems have very little to do with sex. It's usually more about stuff like self image issues and lack of role fulfillment.



Bunny Tracks said:


> Not that that would actually matter to him, though.


Eh, he just sounds bitter. Weird thing is that he's complaining about women but he reminds me a lot of the feminist types who endlessly go on about how awful men are, and yet the second they meet one who's even somewhat affectionate towards them they're immediately smitten.

I like dishing on women as much as the next guy but when you interact with the ones who really care about you even when it seems like it doesn't make any sense, there's no way you can hate them.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> Thankfully I got a job at a company that helps you pay to adopt kids and even gives you paid leave to settle in to a new family when you adopt.


Maybe I'm ignorant here, but no adoption agency I've ever heard of would adopt a kid out to a single male. I don't think they do to single people in general.

PS: this is looking like it's ready to get split off into a debate thread.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 12, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> split off into a debate thread.


not everything has to be a new thread


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Okay, now you're just sounding like a cartoon villain, dude. You do seem to like your grandmother enough to be nice to her, though. Why? Was she nice to you growing up?


Nice? I don't know. About as nice as someone could be when you only see them once a year. But she's family. That's all that matters. Hell, I even make an effort to have a civil relationship with my mother, even though she literally makes me so angry that I actually crashed my car just _thinking _about going to visit her in person again after she asked me to earlier this year. 


Bunny Tracks said:


> Same tbh. I used to play irl, but that was years ago. I just play Duel Links, and Master Duel now. What archetypes do you main? I use Infernity, and Darklords.


I don't really have a specific deck that I stick with, I play a little bit of everything. In Duel Links, I just got Paradox, so I was working on Malefics, and I have Phantom Knights, Dark Magician, Gimmick Puppets, Abyss Actors, Superheavy Samurai, Harpies, Sharks, Gouki, World Chalice, Code Talkers, Salamangreats, etc. 

In Master Duel I mostly focus on Tri-Brigade and Lyrilusc, though I don't really play MD. 


Bunny Tracks said:


> Anyways, what do you actually do for fun then? You know, outside Yugioh.


Follow lolcows.

Is that a serious question? You do remember where you are, right?


Bunny Tracks said:


> What place would even let you adopt, though? Forget the job, adoption agencies usually don't give kids to single men, let alone ones like you.


I won't know until I try.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Nice? I don't know. About as nice as someone could be when you only see them once a year. But she's family. That's all that matters. Hell, I even make an effort to have a civil relationship with my mother, even though she literally makes me so angry that *I actually crashed my car just thinking about going to visit her in person again* after she asked me to earlier this year.


Well, that escalated quickly.

Were you hurt? Crashing your car can really fuck you up. How'd your family take it?


Don't Tread on Me said:


> I don't really have a specific deck that I stick with, I play a little bit of everything. In Duel Links, I just got Paradox, so I was working on Malefics, and I have Phantom Knights, Dark Magician, Gimmick Puppets, Abyss Actors, Superheavy Samurai, Harpies, Sharks, Gouki, World Chalice, Code Talkers, Salamangreats, etc.
> 
> In Master Duel I mostly focus on Tri-Brigade and Lyrilusc, though I don't really play MD.


I prefer Infernity in Duel Links because the skills, deck size, combos, and lack of cards on the banlist actually make it pretty good, and easy to use so long as you don't brick.

I tend to branch off in Master Duel because there's just so much variety. I run mostly Darklord-Despia, and Swordsoul, though. I tried Traptrix, but I usually just bricked. I think I'm gonna hold off until the new support gets added, if ever actually is.

I don't really play MD that much either tbh. It's so fucking slow. The last event was absolute torture.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> I won't know until I try.


Even then, I can't even think of a single place that would, even with the company benefits. You must make a lot of money then. That's the only way I can see you being allowed to adopt in your current situation.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Well, that escalated quickly.
> 
> Were you hurt? Crashing your car can really fuck you up. How'd your family take it?


Nah, it wasn't a big deal. I sideswiped someone because I didn't completely change lanes before passing them. Completely destroyed my side mirror, but nothing else was hurt. 


Bunny Tracks said:


> I prefer Infernity in Duel Links because the skills, deck size, combos and lack of cards on the banlist actually make it pretty good, and easy to use so long as you don't brick.
> 
> I tend to branch off in Master Duel because there's just so much variety. I run mostly Darklord-Despia, and Swordsoul, though. I tried Traptrix, but I usually just bricked. I think I'm gonna hold off until the new support gets added, if ever actually is.
> 
> I don't really play MD that much either tbh. It's so fucking slow. The last event was absolute torture.


It's pretty cool that they gave Kallin a voice line for Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier. The turn 1 combo that they've been pulling off lately where they use Puzzlomino the Drop-n-Deleter to combine Trishula with Coral Dragon for Stardust Warrior is pretty damn entertaining to watch.


Bunny Tracks said:


> Even then, I can't even think of a single place that would, even with the company benefits. You must make a lot of money then. That's the only way I can see you being allowed to adopt in your current situation.


Not at all. So I guess I'm just shit out of luck then.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> It is not about owning feminists. It is about protecting myself and my child from the woman who would steal from and then abandon us.


What woman would want to procreate with YOU? Like, cmon.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Nah, it wasn't a big deal. I sideswiped someone because I didn't completely change lanes before passing them. Completely destroyed my side mirror, but nothing else was hurt.


So it wasn't much of a crash just as brush, I guess? Well, that's good. I'm guessing you didn't go to your mom's, or anything, right?


Don't Tread on Me said:


> It's pretty cool that they gave Kallin a voice line for Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier. The turn 1 combo that they've been pulling off lately where they use Puzzlomino the Drop-n-Deleter to combine Trishula with Coral Dragon for Stardust Warrior is pretty damn entertaining to watch.


Can we talk about how they blatantly kept in him saying he wanted to die? Like, Yami Marik can't say he's going to kill us, but Kalin can openly say he wants to neck himself? What the actual hell?

That's what got me to play Infernity in the first place. I never watched 5ds so when his Dark Signer self first rolled up I just thought he was some rando crazy henchman. 

Then his emo gunslinger-reaper self showed up with a deck that's literally called "Please Help Me Suffer" and I'm was like what the actual fuck is happening lmao. I was just so baffled I decided to learn the archetype and found out it was really good in DL.

The Trishula line is really cool, though. I wish more characters had stuff like that. Mokuba was rumored to have a unique line for Shinato, but that was proven to be false. That really sucks imo because Noah would be perfect for a game like DL, considering it takes place in a virtual world.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Not at all. So I guess I'm just shit out of luck then.


So how do you plan on getting a kid then? Why do you even want one? I know you said the only goal for men nowadays is to reproduce, but why? Would having a kid even make you happy?


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## SSj_Ness (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
> 
> Of course I have to look at women, speak to them. It's work. You deal with all the shit you don't want to, collect your paycheck and go home. I'm sure there are plenty of aspects of your job that you don't like too.
> 
> And you are absolutely incorrect. I can speak frankly and honestly about human nature without ever getting violent. You called me a rape apologist and I absolutely am. I do not give a single shit about women being raped because I am not a woman in the same way that I do not give a single shit about other men being robbed because those men are not me. I have enough problems in my life without worrying about people I don't know and have never met. Being apathetic is not the same as wishing harm upon others. There is no hidden meaning behind anything I'm saying, if I wanted to harm or rape women I would admit to it freely.


I think you've been driven mad and hateful by a lack of meaningful relationships with women, at a glance. Get a hold of yourself faggot.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> So it wasn't much of a crash just as brush, I guess? Well, that's good. I'm guessing you didn't go to your mom's, or anything, right?


Yeah, pretty lucky. 

I didn't, and I decided that I would try and go see her next year. Hopefully she won't ruin that by acting how she usually does.


SSj_Ness said:


> I think you've been driven mad and hateful by a lack of meaningful relationships with women, at a glance. Get a hold of yourself faggot.


On the contrary, I've been engaged to two different women in my life. Lived with both of them for 3 years each.

I am hateful because of what women have done to me, not because of what they have not done to me. 


Bunny Tracks said:


> Can we talk about how they blatantly kept in him saying he wanted to die? Like, Yami Marik can't say he's going to kill us, but Kalin can openly say he wants to neck himself? What the actual hell?
> 
> That's what got me to play Infernity in the first place. I never watched 5ds so when his Dark Signer self first rolled up I just thought he was some rando crazy henchman.


Ah, you didn't watch 5Ds.

The Dark Signers were created by people actually dying.

Sayer killed Carly by throwing her out the window of a fourteen story building.

Misty was so shocked at seeing her brother's dead body that she lost control of her vehicle while driving and drove her car into the ocean.

Kallin held off the police trying to arrest Team Satisfaction (Kallin, Jack, Crow and Yusei), allowing the others to escape. They locked him up in solitary and forgot about him. He died of starvation in prison. (This is why Dark Signer Kallin says that a duel is not enough to slake his "hunger").

Greiger was eager for revenge against Rex Goodwin, so Roman told him to give up his life for that revenge, and Greiger willingly hung himself to become a Dark Signer.


Bunny Tracks said:


> So how do you plan on getting a kid then? Why do you even want one? I know you said the only goal for men nowadays is to reproduce, but why? Would having a kid even make you happy?


Well the plan was adoption. I genuinely wasn't aware that adoption agencies were leery of giving out kids based on family size, I figured there were so many in the system that they would welcome anyone who could afford it.

As far as why I want one, family is very important to me. I want to raise a child. I like kids. I even have names picked out already. Does it really surprise you to learn that a man wants to be a father? It's not like I'm some teenager fresh out of middle school.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 12, 2022)

When @SSj_Ness tells you off about women, you know you fucked up. 

No offense.


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## SSj_Ness (Dec 12, 2022)

The Last Stand said:


> When @SSj_Ness tells you off about women, you know you fucked up.
> 
> No offense.


That makes me sound sexist.

...Well, I do hold conservative views which, I guess is sexist in current year. But it's a bit unhinged for him to seriously declare himself self a rape apologist.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

SSj_Ness said:


> declare himself self a rape apologist.


For some reason this just gives me a mental image of someone raping while saying "Sorry! Whoops! My bad!".


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Yeah, pretty lucky.
> 
> I didn't, and I decided that I would try and go see her next year. Hopefully she won't ruin that by acting how she usually does.


Well, that's good. Hopefully it goes well. Though judging from what you've said, she probably will, unfortunately. 

How so btw, if I'm allowed to ask? Me, and my mom don't always see eye to eye, but that's mostly because she's stingy, nearly deaf, and rambles a lot.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Ah, you didn't watch 5Ds.
> 
> The Dark Signers were created by people actually dying.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I didn't. I was too attached to the OG show, and just couldn't get into the new ones, as weird as that is to say.  Which is honestly a shame tbh since the other ones are actually good. 

I knew about Carly's and Kalin's backstories, and ngl, they kinda made me laugh. Kalin's was just so over-the-top dark, and Carly getting yeeted out a window was just so funny to me. Wasn't her voice actress also in a cult, or something? I remember hearing something about that. And didn't Kalin kill someone and that's partially why he was arrested?

I will say this, though. Kalin is one of my favorite characters in the entire franchise now. Right next to Kaiba, and Marik.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Well the plan was adoption. I genuinely wasn't aware that adoption agencies were leery of giving out kids based on family size, I figured there were so many in the system that they would welcome anyone who could afford it.
> 
> As far as why I want one, family is very important to me. I want to raise a child. I like kids. I even have names picked out already. Does it really surprise you to learn that a man wants to be a father? It's not like I'm some teenager fresh out of middle school.


True, but you have to admit, most single men don't want kids so badly they actively go out of their way to adopt them. It's not that it's surprising that a man would want kids. That's it, really. 

Tbh, I want a family too someday, and I also have names already picked out. I like kids too. I have a good job, and stable living situation as well. I just don't think I'd be a great single parent. I don't think I have the personality for it, and besides, what if something happens to me, you know? It's a scary thought.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 12, 2022)

SSj_Ness said:


> That makes me sound sexist.
> 
> ...Well, I do hold conservative views which, I guess is sexist in current year. But it's a bit unhinged for him to seriously declare himself self a rape apologist.


I'd rather deal with you than him. At least it comes with some modicum of respect of women.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Well, that's good. Hopefully it goes well. Though judging from what you've said, she probably will, unfortunately.
> 
> How so btw, if I'm allowed to ask? Me, and my mom don't always see eye to eye, but that's mostly because she's stingy, nearly deaf, and rambles a lot.


She doesn't treat me like an adult. Any time I do something she doesn't like she screams at me like I'm four years old again, despite her being a senior vice president at a major company and knowing exactly how to handle coaching and other people. 


The Last Stand said:


> I'd rather deal with you than him. At least it comes with some modicum of respect of women.


Last I checked, respect had to be earned. I completely disagree with the idea of giving respect to people on a general basis.


Bunny Tracks said:


> Yeah, I didn't. I was too attached to the OG show, and just couldn't get into the new ones, as weird as that is to say.  Which is honestly a shame tbh since the other ones are actually good.
> 
> I knew about Carly's and Kalin's backstories, and ngl, they kinda made me laugh. Kalin's was just so over-the-top dark, and Carly getting yeeted out a window was just so funny to me. Wasn't her voice actress also in a cult, or something? I remember hearing something about that. And didn't Kalin kill someone and that's partially why he was arrested?
> 
> I will say this, though. Kalin is one of my favorite characters in the entire franchise now. Right next to Kaiba, and Marik.


Kill someone? I don't recall that. I think...he dropped someone that he was trying to save? It's been years.


Bunny Tracks said:


> True, but you have to admit, most single men don't want kids so badly they actively go out of their way to adopt them. It's not that it's surprising that a man would want kids. That's it, really.
> 
> Tbh, I want a family too someday, and I also have names already picked out. I like kids too. I have a good job, and stable living situation as well. I just don't think I'd be a great single parent. I don't think I have the personality for it, and besides, what if something happens to me, you know? It's a scary thought.


I do agree with that, but I think that's because most men are willing to try and find a woman to raise their kids even though it hurts them down the line. 

I agree. Single parenting is tough, but my father did it.


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## Ingmar Aspergman (Dec 12, 2022)

Poop Shoot said:


> and somehow also bring in a full time income?


This wasn’t always the case and still isn’t in most cases, Goober


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## The Last Stand (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Last I checked, respect had to be earned. I completely disagree with the idea of giving respect to people on a general basis.


You're right. Anybody who is a rape apologist doesn't deserve respect. You bring shame to your mom and grandma.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> She doesn't treat me like an adult. Any time I do something she doesn't like she screams at me like I'm four years old again, despite her being a senior vice president at a major company and knowing exactly how to handle coaching and other people.


Ever thought about hitting her up for some nepotism? If you aren't making much, maybe she can help you get a job somewhere at her place.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> Ever thought about hitting her up for some nepotism? If you aren't making much, maybe she can help you get a job somewhere at her place.


She's offered. I've applied twice for jobs she recommended within her own company, they never called me for a second interview.


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## Swordsman (Dec 12, 2022)

Most of them would've had to join the draft before it was no longer mandatory.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> She's offered. I've applied twice for jobs she recommended within her own company, they never called me for a second interview.


A shame. Hey, at least a woman is trying to help you. 
Was it jobs that required specialist skills or training? Maybe that's what held you back.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> A shame. Hey, at least a woman is trying to help you.
> Was it jobs that required specialist skills or training? Maybe that's what held you back.


Probably. I have no sales experience, I'm all service and technical, so that's probably it.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 12, 2022)

Mods, rename this thread Debate @Don't Tread on Me, the rape apologist.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Probably. I have no sales experience, I'm all service and technical, so that's probably it.


Sales is a soul destroying market. You have to be already missing a part of your soul to do well in it.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> She doesn't treat me like an adult. Any time I do something she doesn't like she screams at me like I'm four years old again, despite her being a senior vice president at a major company and knowing exactly how to handle coaching and other people.


Eh, you'd think. As someone who's worked in management for a long time, you'd be surprised by how little the people in charge actually know how to behave, and stuff like that. I once had a manager berate a new employee for not knowing how to use the PA system even though it was their first job.

Like with most things, the ones in charge are usually as terrible at their jobs as they are terrible people.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Kill someone? I don't recall that. I think...he dropped someone that he was trying to save? It's been years.


I thought he did? I remember watching a clip with Yusei saying he went too far, and then a scene of Kalin just standing in an alley with some obscured motionless figure lying on the ground in the dark.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> I do agree with that, but I think that's because most men are willing to try and find a woman to raise their kids even though it hurts them down the line.
> 
> I agree. Single parenting is tough, but my father did it.


Even so, part of me can't help, but think it's a bad idea. If it's bad for single mothers, I can't see how single fathers would be any better. Especially if you're adopting. What if you adopt a kid who previously had a mom, and wanted another one? What would you do?


Stabmaster Arson II said:


> Sales is a soul destroying market. You have to be already missing a part of your soul to do well in it.


I resent that remark, even if it is true.


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## AnOminous (Dec 12, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> She doesn't treat me like an adult.


I can't imagine why.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 12, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> I can't imagine why.


And that's what irks me about women. Any time a woman mistreats a man, the man deserves it. Every single time. I am a perfectly capable and mature individual, I am not a literal four year old who needs to be screamed at because I am watching a video on YouTube or because I missed a turn driving.



Bunny Tracks said:


> Even so, part of me can't help, but think it's a bad idea. If it's bad for single mothers, I can't see how single fathers would be any better. Especially if you're adopting. What if you adopt a kid who previously had a mom, and wanted another one? What would you do?


It is an equally bad idea to marry a woman and then have her leave. In that case, the kid would still be in a single parent household, it just might not be mine.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> And that's what irks me about women. Any time a woman mistreats a man, the man deserves it. Every single time. I am a perfectly capable and mature individual, I am not a literal four year old who needs to be screamed at because I am watching a video on YouTube or because I missed a turn driving.


Look, I'm just gonna say it. Why do you keep trying to see your mother if she's hurt you so much? Why don't you just leave her like she left you?


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Look, I'm just gonna say it. Why do you keep trying to see your mother if she's hurt you so much? Why don't you just leave her like she left you?


I tried to. After I grazed that car, I told her I wasn't going to speak to her ever again. I blocked her number. I was ready to shut her out of my life.

I even ignored her on her birthday.

But a few months later she sent me a letter in the mail, a real postal letter because it was the only way she could reach me. 

My dad gets ignored by my two brothers. He reaches out to them as much as he can. I have no issues ignoring both of them, they're drug addicts and criminals. But I see how it hurts my dad that his own sons, who he worked hard to raise and provide for for eighteen years, just cut him entirely out of their lives. And I can't do the same to my mother. I just can't. I don't have it in me to be mean to anyone.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I tried to. After I grazed that car, I told her I wasn't going to speak to her ever again. I blocked her number. I was ready to shut her out of my life.
> 
> I even ignored her on her birthday.
> 
> ...


My brother in Christ, I gotta point out how your past statements about being a rape apologist and misogynist contradict that last statement, not to mention the rest of this entire post.


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## AnOminous (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I tried to. After I grazed that car, I told her I wasn't going to speak to her ever again. I blocked her number. I was ready to shut her out of my life.


So you can't even drive without hitting shit?  Are you sure you're even a man?  Because I'm picking up serious troon vibes off you.  The only people I've ever seen who talk like you all end up trooning out.  Might as well get it over with.


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## Uberpenguin (Dec 13, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> My brother in Christ, I gotta point out how your past statements about being a rape apologist and misogynist contradict that last statement, not to mention the rest of this entire post.


Like I said before, this homey doesn't read like someone who actually hates women, actual misogynists/misandrists aren't usually that upfront about it. He's clearly just a frustrated and probably lonely weirdo.

Welcome to the club I guess.



AnOminous said:


> Because I'm picking up serious troon vibes off you.


Man, that would be a twist.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> My brother in Christ, I gotta point out how your past statements about being a rape apologist and misogynist contradict that last statement, not to mention the rest of this entire post.


I disagree. I stated to you, quite plainly, that I would never harm a woman. Just because I hate women, including my mother, does not mean I want to hurt them. I don't care if they are raped by other people, and I will not defend them or argue on their behalf in those instances. But I can't hurt anyone.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I disagree. I stated to you, quite plainly, that I would never harm a woman. Just because I hate women, including my mother, does not mean I want to hurt them. I don't care if they are raped by other people, and I will not defend them or argue on their behalf in those instances. But I can't hurt anyone.


You do realize you not wanting to personally hurt them, but not caring if they do get hurt counts as being mean, right?

Doubling-back on the values you'd teach your hypothetical child for a sec, I noticed how you said "polite, loyal, and respectful", but nothing about love, kindness, empathy, and shit like that.

Why?


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> You do realize you not wanting to personally hurt them, but not caring if they do get hurt counts as being mean, right?


No. Apathy is just apathy. It's not mean to not care. It's neutral. Mean would be teasing or laughing at their suffering. Or inflicting it. Like I said, I just have my own life to live and I'm not interested in worrying about other people.


Bunny Tracks said:


> Doubling-back on the values you'd teach your hypothetical child, I noticed how you said "polite, loyal, and respectful", but nothing about kindness, empathy, and shit like that.
> 
> Why?


I have a negative opinion of empathy, I think empathy is overused. And I think it's mostly fake. You don't know what it's like to be someone else, no matter how similar of a situation you have been in to theirs. You also don't know all their extenuating circumstances. So you're never right when you try and empathize with anyone, and it's an empty gesture anyway. It's a waste of time and it encourages the sort of virtue signaling we see all the time these days. Too many people trying to pretend they're good people by crying about causes they have nothing to do with, not enough actual good people.

Kindness is fine but it's not something I would focus on. If the kid wants to be kind to others, let her. If it's not something that comes naturally to her, I'm not going to force it. She needs to learn to stand up straight, to look people in the eye when she's talking to them, and to say "sir" and "ma'am" a lot.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I disagree. I stated to you, quite plainly, that I would never harm a woman. Just because I hate women, including my mother, does not mean I want to hurt them. I don't care if they are raped by other people, and I will not defend them or argue on their behalf in those instances. But I can't hurt anyone.


I get that some parents aren't the best,  but good God. What is wrong with you?


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## AnOminous (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I disagree. I stated to you, quite plainly, that I would never harm a woman. Just because I hate women, including my mother, does not mean I want to hurt them. I don't care if they are raped by other people, and I will not defend them or argue on their behalf in those instances. But I can't hurt anyone.


So you're not just a hateful asshole, but a complete pussy too.

Definite troon material.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I have a negative opinion of empathy, I think empathy is overused. And I think it's mostly fake. You don't know what it's like to be someone else, no matter how similar of a situation you have been in to theirs. You also don't know all their extenuating circumstances. So you're never right when you try and empathize with anyone, and it's an empty gesture anyway. It's a waste of time and it encourages the sort of virtue signaling we see all the time these days. Too many people trying to pretend they're good people by crying about causes they have nothing to do with, not enough actual good people.
> 
> Kindness is fine but it's not something I would focus on. If the kid wants to be kind to others, let her. If it's not something that comes naturally to her, I'm not going to force it. She needs to learn to stand up straight, to look people in the eye when she's talking to them, and to say "sir" and "ma'am" a lot.


Okay, so the statement about people with mommy issues being sociopaths was true then. Good to know.

Jokes aside, you feel wronged by women, and get mad when people don't empathize with you, and yet you yourself think empathy is overrated, and pointless. Seems pretty telling, not to mention hypocritical.

And judging from your comments about you hypothetical children again, I don't think you want an actual child. I think you just want someone to control.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Jokes aside, you feel wronged by women, and get mad when people don't empathize with you, and yet you yourself think empathy is overrated, and pointless. Seems pretty telling, not to mention hypocritical.


Yes, I am a hypocrite, as is pretty much every other human in existence. If people aren't willing to empathize with me, why should I bother with them?


Bunny Tracks said:


> And judging from your comments about you hypothetical children again, I don't think you want an actual child. I think you just want someone to control.


Then I suppose it's a good thing I'm not going to have one.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Yes, I am a hypocrite, as is pretty much every other human in existence. If people aren't willing to empathize with me, why should I bother with them?


Dude, just get a dog. All you have to do is feed it walk it, and don't beat it and they think you're the best thing ever. If you're too much of a sped for women the animal kingdom (well dogs at least) will welcome you.

Cats will be able to smell the loser on you and leave. Get a dog. It's the safest way to live out your control issue.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Yes, I am a hypocrite, as is pretty much every other human in existence. If people aren't willing to empathize with me, why should I bother with them?


See, I don't think you actually can empathize.

 I think you can hold a conversation with someone if it's about something you like just as we did briefly with Yugioh, but the moment you get bored, the mask slips.


Don't Tread on Me said:


> Then I suppose it's a good thing I'm not going to have one.


Yeah, probably. Thank god btw, because a child raised by a low-functioning sociopath wouldn't turn out very well.


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## Begemot (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I disagree. I stated to you, quite plainly, that I would never harm a woman. Just because I hate women, including my mother, does not mean I want to hurt them. I don't care if they are raped by other people, and I will not defend them or argue on their behalf in those instances. But I can't hurt anyone.


What if this hatred of women would be helped if you became a woman through transitioning?


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## PeggieBigCock (Dec 13, 2022)

What the fuck is going on in here


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## Dude Christmas (Dec 13, 2022)

I missread the thread as Are Incels Adorable? lol.


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## Ferryman (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> No. Apathy is just apathy. It's not mean to not care. It's neutral. Mean would be teasing or laughing at their suffering. Or inflicting it. Like I said, I just have my own life to live and I'm not interested in worrying about other people.
> 
> I have a negative opinion of empathy, I think empathy is overused. And I think it's mostly fake. You don't know what it's like to be someone else, no matter how similar of a situation you have been in to theirs. You also don't know all their extenuating circumstances. So you're never right when you try and empathize with anyone, and it's an empty gesture anyway. It's a waste of time and it encourages the sort of virtue signaling we see all the time these days. Too many people trying to pretend they're good people by crying about causes they have nothing to do with, not enough actual good people.
> 
> Kindness is fine but it's not something I would focus on. If the kid wants to be kind to others, let her. If it's not something that comes naturally to her, I'm not going to force it. She needs to learn to stand up straight, to look people in the eye when she's talking to them, and to say "sir" and "ma'am" a lot.


That's a seriously maligned view of how empathy and human interactions work. Its not about being 'right' or knowing precisely how someone feels, its about being able to view the world from their perspective and understand how they *may* feel based on what you can glean from their behavior. While I will agree that too much empathy is definitely a bad thing, being unable to empathise with others is just as bad, if not worse. One mindfucks you, the other makes you seem like a detached weirdo / sociopath.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Dec 13, 2022)

Dude Christmas said:


> I missread the thread as Are Incels Adorable? lol.


The answer to such a question being yes, of course


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## Just A Butt (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I genuinely wasn't aware that adoption agencies were leery of giving out kids based on family size, I figured there were so many in the system that they would welcome anyone who could afford it.


calm down, Epstein


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

Ferryman said:


> That's a seriously maligned view of how empathy and human interactions work. Its not about being 'right' or knowing precisely how someone feels, its about being able to view the world from their perspective and understand how they *may* feel based on what you can glean from their behavior. While I will agree that too much empathy is definitely a bad thing, being unable to empathise with others is just as bad, if not worse. One mindfucks you, the other makes you seem like a detached weirdo / sociopath.


I am able to empathize with other people, it is a requirement of working in customer service. I just choose not to when I'm off work because I don't care.


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## Sniperwoof (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I am able to empathize with other people, it is a requirement of working in customer service. I just choose not to when I'm off work because I don't care.


If a girl you found completely hideous physically offered you bobs and vagene would you accept the offer and lose your sperginity?


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

Sniperwoof said:


> If a girl you found completely hideous physically offered you bobs and vagene would you accept the offer and lose your sperginity?


Lol no. I am not an incel. I've had sex plenty of times. I just hate women.


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## Illuminati Order Official (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Lol no. I am not an incel. I've had sex plenty of times. I just hate women.


Since sex with your own hand doesn't count, I really hope those males were adult, consenting, alive and human.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I am able to empathize with other people, it is a requirement of working in customer service. I just choose not to when I'm off work because I don't care.


I hope for your sake you're on the phones rather than at a counter somewhere.


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## urr13 account (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I am able to empathize with other people, it is a requirement of *working in customer service*. I just choose not to when I'm off work because I don't care.


Working in customer service is enough to rot anyone's soul. Is is possible your hatred of women is caused by needing an outlet for your frustrations with work and your lot in life?


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## PeggieBigCock (Dec 13, 2022)

A lot of men don’t understand why women don’t want to fuck a 28 year old virgin if they aren’t at least moderately successful, most men suck at sex. Why guarantee yourself bad sex for any amount of time when you can find a man who might be better at sex with more practice? Yes, sometimes it really is that simple. Hookers are everywhere, trust me, if you are 20+ and still haven’t gotten laid a woman of the night should not be beneath your delusional narcissistic standards.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 13, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Lol no. I am not an incel. I've had sex plenty of times. I just hate women.


Why work with people if you hate people?


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## Cpt. Stud Beefpile (Dec 13, 2022)

The minute that the first dedicated dating app went online, inceldom was as inevitable as the sunrise.

/thread.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 13, 2022)

The Last Stand said:


> Why work with people if you hate people?


To pay rent.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 13, 2022)

Cpt. Stud Beefpile said:


> The minute that the first dedicated dating app went online


no i'm pretty sure there was unfuckable people in the bible days, and probably before that too


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## Kel1 shi1 (Dec 13, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> no i'm pretty sure there was unfuckable people in the bible days, and probably before that too



Even before the internet you could accurately ID the guys that gave off virgin energy. If anything the apps showed guys that could get laid that they were actually not that hot shit and thier inboxes remained match-lite.


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## FudgeFish (Dec 13, 2022)

They were really only avoidable in the sense that two World Wars could've been avoided if Gravilo Princip had opened a bakery or something.


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## Biden's Chosen (Dec 14, 2022)

PeggieBigCock said:


> A lot of men don’t understand why women don’t want to fuck a 28 year old virgin if they aren’t at least moderately successful, most men suck at sex. Why guarantee yourself bad sex for any amount of time when you can find a man who might be better at sex with more practice? Yes, sometimes it really is that simple. Hookers are everywhere, trust me, if you are 20+ and still haven’t gotten laid a woman of the night should not be beneath your delusional narcissistic standards.


It's funny how women always admit to being whores. They'll fuck you and have bad sex, but you have to at least be "moderately succesful".

I agree with the advice that incels should accept that they have to pay for it (one way or another), but women lecturing incels about narcissism never stops being funny. Because they match the prototypical incel in that narcissism. As if it's hard to understand the pain of missing sincere affection, that incels must accept.


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## PeggieBigCock (Dec 14, 2022)

Biden's Chosen said:


> It's funny how women always admit to being whores. They'll fuck you and have bad sex, but you have to at least be "moderately succesful".
> 
> I agree with the advice that incels should accept that they have to pay for it (one way or amother), but women lecturing incels about narcissism never stops being funny. Because they match the prototypical incel in that narcissism. As if it's hard to understand the pain of missing sincere affection, that incels must accept.


 There’s nothing wrong with paying for sex to practice pleasing women, women are inherently hard to please, like sure you can bust a quick nut in a girl, will that make he stick around and stay with you? No, not when other men will do more to gratify her.  You can call all women whores but it’s such a butthurt cope. No normal woman is a virgin past 20, that’s a delusional internet fantasy. The women that are “pure” and “fertile” virgins that most incels dream of “pair bonding” with are either 300lbs or irreparably fucking insane. Take your pick.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 14, 2022)

PeggieBigCock said:


> There’s nothing wrong with paying for sex to practice pleasing women,






Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Biden's Chosen (Dec 14, 2022)

PeggieBigCock said:


> There’s nothing wrong with paying for sex to practice pleasing women, women are inherently hard to please, like sure you can bust a quick nut in a girl, will that make he stick around and stay with you? No, not when other men will do more to gratify her. You can call all women whores but it’s such a butthurt cope. No normal woman is a virgin past 20, that’s a delusional internet fantasy. The women that are “pure” and “fertile” virgins that most incels dream of “pair bonding” with are either 300lbs or irreparably fucking insane. Take your pick.


No incel is worried about getting a girl to stick around after sex, dumb woman. A skateboarder that can't jump doesn't have to worry about sticking the landing.

Lmao, you're the one who called women whores. Don't get mad now.


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## Aussie_Autizzy (Dec 14, 2022)

I would say there is definitely some congruency between your garden variety KiwiFarms poster and an Incel.


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## Deanco (Dec 14, 2022)

Incels will always exist - whether it be a Twitch moderator or someone with no social skills, that's something that they've done to themselves. They've made themselves unfuckable! For 99% of people, if you work on your social skills and treat women as actual humans instead of sex robots, you'll be able to fins a girlfriend.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Dec 14, 2022)

PeggieBigCock said:


> either 300lbs or irreparably fucking insane. Take your pick


I'll take the insane one please.


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## PeggieBigCock (Dec 14, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> I'll take the insane one please.


In & Out Burger or In & Out Psychwards


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## NickGer (Dec 15, 2022)

It really shows you guys never knew any incel or you simply don't understand their issues. Sure there are some that hate women but there are people with variety of other issues. Some have social skill issues because they simply didn't have a chance to develop them. It's like raiding a bike but you never had a bike, they never had a chance to practice that skill, because they were simply very shy(or any other similar issue). Let's be real nobody not even incels, want to fuck prostitutes, it's not as simple "lmao just have sex". People naturally seek or desire what they never had or experienced, in incels case its their first youth love experience, emotional bond and first sexual experience. Dating is very, very hostile world for man, especially those with some issues because women by default, have expectation they will find a man who's "ready" and comes with no issues and if they encounter any, thanks to online dating, they have much more wider choice then man. "Incels are boring so no women wants to know them", that's the most laughable take i ever heard. Sure some are but you are oversimplifing things, I've know few incels for years and I can tell you, most of them aren't boring. They just didn't had luck or chance to shine. They aren't that much different then you or me, at least those who don't blame their circumstances on women. It's very complex issue that can't be oversimplified and every case of inceldom is very different.


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## Lemmingwiser (Dec 15, 2022)

NickGer said:


> It really shows you guys never knew any incel or you simply don't understand their issues. Sure there are some that hate women but there are people with variety of other issues. Some have social skill issues because they simply didn't have a chance to develop them. It's like raiding a bike but you never had a bike, they never had a chance to practice that skill, because they were simply very shy(or any other similar issue). Let's be real nobody not even incels, want to fuck prostitutes, it's not as simple "lmao just have sex". People naturally seek or desire what they never had or experienced, in incels case its their first youth love experience, emotional bond and first sexual experience. Dating is very, very hostile world for man, especially those with some issues because women by default, have expectation they will find a man who's "ready" and comes with no issues and if they encounter any, thanks to online dating, they have much more wider choice then man. "Incels are boring so no women wants to know them", that's the most laughable take i ever heard. Sure some are but you are oversimplifing things, I've know few incels for years and I can tell you, most of them aren't boring. They just didn't had luck or chance to shine. They aren't that much different then you or me, at least those who don't blame their circumstances on women. It's very complex issue that can't be oversimplified and every case of inceldom is very different.


This is true. But I also think it specifically is an internet problem, but not for the reason most would think. I'll explain.

For the vast majority of human history about 80% of women procreate and about 40% of men do. We know this by studying the Y and X chromosomes. We all have many more maternal parentage than paternal.

The concept of one man one woman marriage is a roman, greek, chinese and indian custom.
Japan didn't practice it until losing the 2nd WW. I'm pretty sure native americans didnt practice monogamy. Africa still doesn't. Middle east still doesn't.

These worthless men, as judged by women, are mostly invisible. They're men of no import. Sexually their only historic outlet was prostitution. They could not have a woman, but they could rent one. Before women get their feels hurt, I just mean that a husband and wife have each other.

So the existence of incels is a human universal, because even in these structurally monogamous societies our biology results in a far smaller amount of men procreating than women. More than just war deaths and infertility would account for. So even socially monogamous societies in practice culled more men from the gene pool than women.

But these invisible men, the least powerful and meaningful men, can now find each other online. Or more importantly, they are a huge customer base for people to grift to. Even more so because anything besides onlyfans/porn that gets offered to incels receives massive scorn. So only those who manage to weather the scorn can succeed, meaning they get to control even more of that market than if it was less controversial.

Incel men are a human universal. Yes, women are to blame, because they rather share a succesful man than have an unsuccesful one for themselves. But women are only to blame in the regard that their biology is laid out their way in the same way men are to blame for women obsessing over their looks and gettinf plastic surgery. Men would rather have a good looking woman than a good personality one.

And of all the men I speak to, they are generally quite aware of all the issues that women face, sometimes overly so. And all the women I speak to, practically none understand the male experience and least of all that of incels. They don't want to hear it. They don't care. It's hard to think of woman as empathic if you talk about this issue.

Most women base their understanding of men of what men that they chase after. The average advice a woman gives if a man asks for advice on how to get woman is to "tell her how you feel". Decent advice for women, dumb advice for men. 

I have an incel adjecant friend who is a little autistic. He's buff, smart, but nonambitious and has difficulty with unfamiliar territory or how you have to communicate with women. He has had one brief relationship with a woman of terrible character that was about to be booted from their dnd group and she tried using him to be able to stay in it.
It was heartbreaking to see him fall in love and try to do anything for her, when it was obvious she was toying with him.

He isn't a terminally online person (like myself and I assume, most people here). He comes off as fairly normal and he has a good group of friends. But if he were a little more isolated, and more online, he could ewsily be mobilised toward pretty much any goal by having some kind of incel podcast that managed to reach him. Muslims promised their incels any women they could capture from the infidels. Give a weapon or two and use them to help spread islam.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 15, 2022)

that's a lot of words for "i'm hideously ugly and no one will touch my penis"


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## AnOminous (Dec 15, 2022)

For the vast majority of history, a huge proportion of males died before reproducing whether in war or otherwise.  You didn't have loser incels whining about their virginity because they'd have already been dead or sent to a monastery by now.


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## The Ugly One (Dec 15, 2022)

Incels are just the mirror to eggless cat ladies. We evolved to pair up and reproduce, and failing at both tends to make people go crazy.


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## UERISIMILITUDO (Dec 15, 2022)

Sure the entire issue is avoidable, but that would require women to do something they don't want to do, so it won't happen.  A lot of these people are a little upset at how men are treated as disposable tools while women get all of the pity.  It's a saying of mine: _Men suffer, and women complain._


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## Just A Butt (Dec 15, 2022)

UERISIMILITUDO said:


> It's a saying of mine: _Men suffer, and women complain._


you should workshop that a little, it's a terrible catchphrase


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## Uberpenguin (Dec 16, 2022)

NickGer said:


> It really shows you guys never knew any incel or you simply don't understand their issues. Sure there are some that hate women but there are people with variety of other issues. Some have social skill issues because they simply didn't have a chance to develop them. It's like raiding a bike but you never had a bike, they never had a chance to practice that skill, because they were simply very shy(or any other similar issue). Let's be real nobody not even incels, want to fuck prostitutes, it's not as simple "lmao just have sex". People naturally seek or desire what they never had or experienced, in incels case its their first youth love experience, emotional bond and first sexual experience. Dating is very, very hostile world for man, especially those with some issues because women by default, have expectation they will find a man who's "ready" and comes with no issues and if they encounter any, thanks to online dating, they have much more wider choice then man. "Incels are boring so no women wants to know them", that's the most laughable take i ever heard. Sure some are but you are oversimplifing things, I've know few incels for years and I can tell you, most of them aren't boring. They just didn't had luck or chance to shine. They aren't that much different then you or me, at least those who don't blame their circumstances on women. It's very complex issue that can't be oversimplified and every case of inceldom is very different.


Yeah, but that's also why this thread and most discourse surrounding "incels" is dumb, because like I said previously in this thread, it's a completely arbitrary term.

The cultural definition of an incel is usually a very specific type of guy, one whose dick is dry and they're really angry about it, and who see women/sex as trophies (plenty of messed up insecure women do that with men too, it just serves as less of a barrier).

But then those guys wind up getting lumped in with people who aren't getting laid because of a whole litany of other, much less abrasive causes, exclusively over their one unifying trait that they aren't getting it in.
There's a tremendous difference between your Elliot Roger and your Jason Whoever the intelligent and respectful but somewhat awkward and shy dude.

To an extent I think that demonstrates how much culture fuels all this silly bullshit. People are desperate to treat everything in black and white so they have another device to use to act like faggots and draw dividers between us vs. them.
It's a great way for shitty redditor types who are awful in bed and are in terrible, unsatisfying relationships to act like they're superior.
Entire crowds of fat disgusting slobs, low-class trash, emotionally vacant sociopaths, degenerates and retards, but they technically stick it in once in a while so they're better than the _chuds_.

And it's a great way for a bunch of privileged guys to act like a downtrodden victim class because people won't worship the ground they walk on just for existing, like they so clearly deserve.

You can even see it in threads like these, it's so often a magnet for negativity, cynicism, and finger pointing when the reality is that for the most part, outside that relatively small demographic of complete assholes who very much belong alone, the issue is yet another depressing indication of a fragmented and very troubled society.


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## UERISIMILITUDO (Dec 16, 2022)

It looks a bit better if I use this version of it: _Men suffer; women complain._

Still, I'll keep that in mind.


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## Lemmingwiser (Dec 16, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> The cultural definition of an incel is usually a very specific type of guy, one whose dick is dry and they're really angry about it, and who see women/sex as trophies (plenty of messed up insecure women do that with men too, it just serves as less of a barrier).


I think it just means involuntary celibate. The "cultural definition" as you describe it is just this weird definition with added on stuff the same way conspiracy theory has a cultural definition of meaning "kooky wrong idea", when it literally is just a theory about some collusion that might have taken place.

I agree with the general gist of your post. I'm not sure you're aware of how big the incel thing is though. I haven't seen a very good study on the subject yet, but it seems to be quite a significant number, like something like 20%.

I think it's because these same men are typically also the least likely to have many friends so you look around yourself and you don't see many of them.



UERISIMILITUDO said:


> It looks a bit better if I use this version of it: _Men suffer; women complain._
> 
> Still, I'll keep that in mind.


I don't even think it's poignant. If men didn't complain, we wouldn't think about the fact that there are (so many) incels. And it's not like women don't suffer either. Your quote itself is a kind of complaining. 

There is a Thoreau quote that captures the sentiment better. "The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation.... and go to the grave with the song still in them."


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## AnOminous (Dec 16, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> The cultural definition of an incel is usually a very specific type of guy, one whose dick is dry and they're really angry about it, and who see women/sex as trophies (plenty of messed up insecure women do that with men too, it just serves as less of a barrier).


I've never seen anyone who actually calls themselves an incel who isn't either that or worse.  Someone who just hasn't had sex is a virgin, and could be that for any number of reasons from religious to other.  And not everyone who hasn't gotten laid but wants to is a completely bitter homicidal loser advocating rape and child molestation.


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## ♂CANAM productions♂ (Dec 17, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> For the vast majority of history, a huge proportion of males died before reproducing whether in war or otherwise.  You didn't have loser incels whining about their virginity because they'd have already been dead or sent to a monastery by now.


The thing is that political and scientific advancements have moved away from the original paradigm. Wars are less frequent, people live longer, and believe that death should be avoided whenever possible.

So now there is  dilemma in the west. There is a large contingent of "incels" who are socially pressured into "getting a woman", can't get any, but prostitution is banned (By the state) and being celibate is somewhat shunned (By women and men). However, they can't just send off these people to die or just murder them yet, because according to most people (Mostly women) all life is precious. 

It remains to be seen if this will cause the collapse of the west. I for one do think there is a chance, but not high. Not until something like 95% of men can't find women. But Rome thought it was an eternal empire for the ages, and every Chinese dynasty thought they would exist ten thousand years.



AnOminous said:


> I've never seen anyone who actually calls themselves an incel who isn't either that or worse. Someone who just hasn't had sex is a virgin


That doesn't mean that literally everyone else will call them an incel, and eventually, most will start believing it too. Then you get the feedback loop into school shooter territory.

Hostility can be temporary soothed over, but the lingering hatred still festers. Can the the root of this  festering illness be cured without getting a woman for most of these types? I do not know.
I do know that truth is not pleasant. What is pleasant is often untruthful. It remains on the person to act and not contemplate for themselves. But they are misled to believe a fundamental mis-truth.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Dec 17, 2022)

I always hear this war thing brought up, do you all think life back then was a neverending For Honor match or something?


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## AnOminous (Dec 17, 2022)

♂CANAM productions♂ said:


> I do know that truth is not pleasant.


Being a completely useless retard isn't pleasant either and you're that.


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## The Foxtrot (Dec 17, 2022)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> I always hear this war thing brought up, do you all think life back then was a neverending For Honor match or something?


No, but conflicts were a hell of a lot more common before the World Wars. And even without the warfare, life in general was just shittier for the average joe/jane citizen. You didn't get to live long enough to actually contemplate issues like we do today, especially not when the vast majority of your time was spent working (usually farming).


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## Just A Butt (Dec 17, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> You didn't get to live long enough to actually contemplate issues like we do today


what kind of issues do you contemplate?


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## Chiliarch (Dec 17, 2022)

I feel like most incels only complain cause they cannot get the same amount of 9/10 pussy that actual chads get. And like of course, if you are shy, do not have very good conversational skills and are not particularly attractive then you won't get hordes of women. How many incels would be willing to settle for a 3/10 radfem who would rather browse instagram all day than do anything? That's the female equivalent. 

As a man you have to force yourself to be self-confident, talkative etc. If you won't be then women won't be attracted to you. You are too scared? Too bad, force yourself and overcome those issues.


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## The Foxtrot (Dec 17, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> what kind of issues do you contemplate?


Me, personally? That's irrelevant.

And there's no need for the trashcan, you know I'm right. Life today is easier and safer than life 150 years ago was.


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## AnOminous (Dec 17, 2022)

♂CANAM productions♂ said:


> That doesn't mean that literally everyone else will call them an incel, and eventually, most will start believing it too. Then you get the feedback loop into school shooter territory.


Only if you're a retard.  And if you are maybe we really should rev up Aktion T4 again to get rid of you wastes of oxygen.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 17, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> And there's no need for the trashcan


bitching about stickers is incel behavior


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## The Foxtrot (Dec 17, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> bitching about stickers is incel behavior


Bitching about bitching about stickers is the TRUE AND HONEST incel behavior

or something idk blyat


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## Just A Butt (Dec 17, 2022)

my point originally was that like, people had plenty of time to think and "contemplate" back in the olden days. unless you are incapable of deep thinking while you work, perhaps? it's ok you're among friends we won't make fun of you
in fact, they didn't have fuck all else to do, since most of them couldn't read and shit.

meanwhile you can't give me one measly example, cause you're addicted to xbox and mtv and skateboards and whatnot.


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## Ridley (Dec 17, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> I've never seen anyone who actually calls themselves an incel who isn't either that or worse.  Someone who just hasn't had sex is a virgin, and could be that for any number of reasons from religious to other.  And not everyone who hasn't gotten laid but wants to is a completely bitter homicidal loser advocating rape and child molestation.


Incel & virgin as descriptors are synonymous so I don't see the point in differentiating them. Society says if you don't fuck you will be declared a pariah. Clearly there is something wrong with you. No it cannot be fixed & we will remind you of that inherent worthlessness at every opportunity. We will use it to discredit all thoughts or feelings you may ever have on the matter or any matter. Also if this drives you crazy it's your fault. tl;dr every nation gets the incel caste it deserves. Expect a drastic increase in violence & rape over time.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 17, 2022)

Literally no one irl outside of retarded fundies, and tradfags gives a shit if you're a virgin.

Making such a big deal out of it only happens online because it's a very easy, and effective way to get a rise out of people.


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## UERISIMILITUDO (Dec 17, 2022)

Everyone arguing how _actually, most men died before reproducing, so this is okay_ had better get ready for the increasingly angry mass violence at places like schools.

Don't worry, men killing others' children was actually natural for most of human history, to varying degrees, so it will be okay.


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## Ridley (Dec 17, 2022)

The incel label is the logical evolution of the virgin label. Both are the same thing: you don't have sex because something is wrong with you. Insisting a stupid trend will somehow magically stay confined to the internet in the year 2022 is so fagtarded I'm not even going to give you a sticker.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 17, 2022)

UERISIMILITUDO said:


> get ready


calm down and have sex, lol


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## CuzinEd (Dec 17, 2022)

I will start off by saying what I always say about "incels". There is no such thing as an incel. The only determining factor in getting laid is you. Nothing is stopping you from getting sex except you. It's a self-inflicted problem. This goes for the female version as well. 

Now let's look at the origin of the term incel. It is an insult used by leftists to suppress anything males might have to say about feminism and modern-day women. Specifically white males. Calling yourself an incel is cringey. Especially since most of these guys calling themselves incels are in their 20's and 30's. I have yet to see any Gen X people call themselves incels. It seems to be a Millennial and Gen Z thing. But keep in mind they are a small number. But people, especially the left make it seem like there are more incels than there are. This isn't helped by the fact that these incel types tend to make a lot of noise. By that I mean they are constantly whining. Where a normal guy doesn't, even if he isn't getting laid. Normal guys have hobbies, they masturbate to porn and some will go out and basically have sex with any woman they can find, even if they have to pay for it. 

These incel types don't do that. They sit around online whining raging and seething incessantly about their lack of sex and whatever they believe is the cause of it. Usually, it's multiple things. Feminism being the most popular excuse but there are others. With some incel types they blame Jew and niggers. Black guys took all the white women. They also blame what they call "chads" with things like chads took all my Stacey's. I have even heard retarded shit like OnlyFans took all the women. Though only 3% of the female population gets involved in the sex industry. Another popular one is that 80-90% of women are going to the top 20% of men which isn't true at all. Incels don't seem to think about these excuses before they start spouting them or they aren't very smart. I suspect it's a combination of both. They say things that are often contradictory. Like all women are sluts. So, if all women are sluts then why are you claiming you can't get laid? 

I don't think being shy is their problem. Even the most shy guys eventually get sex. Maybe they encounter a socially aggressive female or they find one they are comfortable with. The first possibility is poor hygiene. Considering some of the guys I have seen some women with some of these incel types must have horrendously poor hygiene. I mean really bad. I am sure everyone has heard the stories about the smelly people at conventions and so on. Everyone knows that joke. They might also be unattractive but again considering some of the guys I have seen with girlfriends they would have to be Quasimodo levels of ugly. But combine poor hygiene with not being that good looking and I can see it hurting their chances with the opposite sex. I think the biggest issue is their behavior though. From what I have seen from these people calling themselves incels tells me these aren't very nice people. They have a lot of attitude problems and are just all around not very nice. With talk of locking women in cages beating and raping women. They just seem to be very negative people and they also seem to have a real hatred for women. Not just the women they had problems with, but it seems to be women in general. 

Another reason is they have their standards set way too high. this applies as well to those women you see in those incel and MGTOW videos on YouTube whining about how they are X age and still single or they have been single for X number of years. I think a lot of these people have their standards set way too high and they have unrealistic expectations for what can be found in the modern world. For both incels and the female equivalent I believe many of them just choose terrible people to form relationships with. In the incel and MGTOW videos the incels usually go on and on about how these women were with Chads and Tyrones (the black equivalent of a Chad) and the Chads and Tyrones dumped them for other women. That they should choose the average regular guys. This a very good point. But the same applies for the incels. They should stop chasing after certain women and just go for the average woman. I think some of the incel types are a product of bad choices when it comes to women. Like some women like the bad boys there are men who are drawn to bad girls or troubled women. They had some bad experiences with women, and they have now blame all women for that and have developed bad attitudes and ways of thinking because of it. Instead of finding a way to recover and move on they let this take over their lives. 


Do I think incels are avoidable? No. But what they can do is engage in some self-improvement. develop a personal hygiene routine. Learn to socialize with women. Get used to talking to them. Get some better clothes or dress better. I don't mean $1,000 suits but if you spend your time looking like a slob it isn't going to help. Don't walk around in clothes with stains and that sort of thing. Lose some weight would be a good way. Like I said above learn to compromise and get used to the fact that you have may just have to settle for someone like the rest of the population. Make better choices in the women you choose to try and have a relationship with. 

You could also just ignore all of that and just keep going down the path you are on. No one really cares. Just stop whining. As usual this applies to incels and the female equivalent. No one wants to hear or see you whining raging and seething all the time. It's a major turnoff. 

This all applies to incels and the female equivalent. 

Incels: All women are sluts now

Also incels: QQ can't get laid forever alone

Incels: Lets beat and rape all the women

Also incels: I can't get laid. 

Gee, I wonder why. lol


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## ♂CANAM productions♂ (Dec 18, 2022)

The Foxtrot said:


> No, but conflicts were a hell of a lot more common before the World Wars. And even without the warfare, life in general was just shittier for the average joe/jane citizen. You didn't get to live long enough to actually contemplate issues like we do today, especially not when the vast majority of your time was spent working (usually farming).


The frequency of the major wars and their intensity has decreased. You must remember campaings lasted longer because winter was basically  the end of the fighting season, and sustained logistics (and sustained treasury printing like today) were not really a thing.


AnOminous said:


> Only if you're a retard.  And if you are maybe we really should rev up Aktion T4 again to get rid of you wastes of oxygen.


AnOminous likes to be on bottom and I would _not _wrestle his ass.


Bunny Tracks said:


> Literally no one irl outside of retarded fundies, and tradfags gives a shit if you're a virgin.


I'd argue the majority of society still sees it as a bad thing for men.
Honestly I don't care if dude's a virgin or not unless they're going out raping children or murdering me. Even then I'm still going to care indefinitely more on the "this nigga trying to kill me" than the "he's a virgin"! I don't really care if you either bang women faster than rockstars bang 10 gram rocks _or_ you wanna lock yourself up in a room and cry.

I _will_ judge someone who cries about not getting women when they are fat and a slob (If you were born disfigured I can sympathize). Wings has a fucking wife so....
Hell, DSP has a wife technically.


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## AnOminous (Dec 18, 2022)

Ridley said:


> Incel & virgin as descriptors are synonymous so I don't see the point in differentiating them.


No, they're not remotely.  Incel specifically means "involuntary celibate."  Not all incels are even virgins.  That's retarded.


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## Cool Dude 69 (Dec 19, 2022)

While I'm sure there have always been guys who couldn't get laid and are mad about it for all eternity -- the modern problem, where they all pile into online hugboxes and come up with scientific theories on why they're unfuckable and what-not is totally an internet thing.
Its not a character flaw to be a little frustrated that you can't find someone to give you a kiss and touch peepee's with. Being frustrated about that is normal, but hyper-fixating on it and basing communities over the issue is probably not healthy.

That being said, I personally picture an Elliot Roger type when I think "Incel." A good-natured ugly guy will eventually get laid on his own merits unless he's not a complete fuck up.

I assume most incels are Teens-Early Twenties, and when I look back at being that young, and the men I knew: Some guys are very very wrapped up in "Success" and the things that project "success," and that also included the kind of partner they should have. Because we're talking about young men, that was predominately based in shallow things and I think guys who get stuck in the incel-hole are wrapped up in that too.
Now that I am older, people's tastes changed. I know guys who married women I'd not believe they'd choose when we were younger because thats what getting older does -- you reprioritize and you change your definition of success sometimes.
Edit: Forgot to add: I feel like incels get stuck in their ideas of SUCCESS milestones and just completely fixated on the Partner, and like stick themselves in a hole and become monsters.


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## Backinpogform (Dec 19, 2022)

It baffles me how blind incels are to how extreme their projection is regarding attractiveness. Its so extreme I sometimes wonder if these blokes have some kind of personality disorder. It’s completely crazy to be this obsessed with the idea that it’s women who are the shallow ones when about 90% of their schtick is about critiquing women’s appearance to the extent they do. Let’s not beat around the bush, everyone knows it is women who are the ones who suffer far more from having the entire sum of their value attributed to their looks. Of course it happens to men too but it is so removed from reality and tone deaf. They’re like the guy who walks into a discussion about female genital mutilation to claim circumcision is on the same level.

 They are incapable of seeing how stupid they sound to complain women are shallow and in the very next breath say she had no right to reject him because she didn’t meet model standards.

You gotta admit they do provide a lot of entertainment though. The nitpicking makes for a great deal of milk. I love seeing them in their delusion tear apart famous women for having big feet or an outie bellybutton or something equally innocuous. i hope incels never go away because their tantrums are so entertaining,


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## PipTheAlchemist (Dec 19, 2022)

Cool Dude 69 said:


> A good-natured ugly guy will eventually get laid on his own merits unless he's not a complete fuck up.


Ugly guys have to be complete fuck-ups to get laid?


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## CuzinEd (Dec 19, 2022)

Cool Dude 69 said:


> While I'm sure there have always been guys who couldn't get laid and are mad about it for all eternity -- the modern problem, where they all pile into online hugboxes and come up with scientific theories on why they're unfuckable and what-not is totally an internet thing.
> Its not a character flaw to be a little frustrated that you can't find someone to give you a kiss and touch peepee's with. Being frustrated about that is normal, but hyper-fixating on it and basing communities over the issue is probably not healthy.
> 
> That being said, I personally picture an Elliot Roger type when I think "Incel." A good-natured ugly guy will eventually get laid on his own merits unless he's not a complete fuck up.
> ...


No, try 20's and 30's. I know because I have been on forums with guys calling themselves incels and they were in their 20's and 30's. Go watch the incel and "MGTOW" videos on YouTube which are just incel videos because incels hijacked the term MGTOW years ago. You will notice that they sound like guys in their 20's 30's and possibly 40's.


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## Trog of the dump (Dec 20, 2022)

I think as society has modernised its led to a greater choice in the dating pool. For most of history you only really had your immediate surroundings. You had maybe 3-4 villages to pick from so standards were a lot lower. If you were rich/noble that was usually enough to get laid as most people lived in relative poverty. Now the dating pool is a lot wider. You can realistically meet anyone from anywhere at any time. Ultimately that leaves a certain amount of people to fall lower and lower down the sexual pecking order. I still think the majority of incels can get laid but theres usually other factors preventing it.


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## CuzinEd (Dec 20, 2022)

Another funny thing I noticed about incels is a lot of them seem to be racist and hate niggers but they use a lot of nigger street slang. Like THOT and captain save a ho. It's really stupid. 



Trog of the dump said:


> I think as society has modernised its led to a greater choice in the dating pool. For most of history you only really had your immediate surroundings. You had maybe 3-4 villages to pick from so standards were a lot lower. If you were rich/noble that was usually enough to get laid as most people lived in relative poverty. Now the dating pool is a lot wider. You can realistically meet anyone from anywhere at any time. Ultimately that leaves a certain amount of people to fall lower and lower down the sexual pecking order. I still think the majority of incels can get laid but theres usually other factors preventing it.


While the ability to meet more people has increased thanks to the ease of travel. The number of places you have to meet people is shrinking. Bars and clubs are not a good place to meet people. Unless you are looking for casual sex or one night stands as the Boomers called it. I think Millennials called it "hooking up". All you are going to find in those places is drama and disease. 

With people complaining about how you can't hit on people in grocery stores and so on. Which is dumb because you can do it anywhere. Young people used to go to malls and socialize but all the malls are closed closing or dead. That's just one less social gathering spot for people outside bars and clubs. I don't think Tinder had helped by turning everyone into a picture.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 20, 2022)

CuzinEd said:


> captain save a ho


since when is this exclusively a black saying?


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## CuzinEd (Dec 20, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> since when is this exclusively a black saying?


Since it was the title of some nigger rap from the 90's.


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## CuzinEd (Dec 22, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> No, they're not remotely.  Incel specifically means "involuntary celibate."  Not all incels are even virgins.  That's retarded.


If they aren't virgins, then I imagine they know what they need to do to get sex so they can just do it again. While not all incels might not be virgins I imagine many of them are.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 22, 2022)

CuzinEd said:


> then I imagine they know what they need to do to get sex so they can just do it again.






Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## AnOminous (Dec 22, 2022)

CuzinEd said:


> If they aren't virgins, then I imagine they know what they need to do to get sex so they can just do it again. While not all incels might not be virgins I imagine many of them are.


It's not part of the definition though, whether or not there's a huge overlap.  And there are virgins who have religious reasons for it, or just don't believe casual sex is a prudent or moral practice, and only want to have sex with a partner for life, or for whatever reason just don't want to have sex ever.

It's almost definitional about incels that they're the vilest people you could possibly imagine and you wouldn't want to spend time with them no matter what sex you are.


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## Timmy Jolsen (Dec 22, 2022)

I think there are some men who are too ugly to ever be able to pull off a one-night stand. However, I think most men, provided they've got a good personality and a plan for life beyond sitting around all day and playing vidya, are capable of getting into a long-term relationship and finding a wife. What attracts someone for casual sex and what attracts for a long-term relationship are two different things.

So no, I don't think everyone can have casual sex. But I think nearly everyone can have sex within a real relationship.


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## jertzog (Dec 22, 2022)

Casual sex incidentally is a major reason this has gotten so bad. When the line between dating and sex blurred to become a cultural statement that if you're dating than you must surely be fucking, dating prospects for lower-echelon guys simply evaporated when being seen with them was effectively stigmatized.
Marital status aside, it used to be that you simply didn't have sex unless you were in a committed relationship. "Going steady" is what they used to call it. This allowed people to date simply to socialize. 
There'd be no social shaming for dating below your status because you weren't seen by all as also hooking up. Whole groups of casual couples could go out and have fun someplace. If two people dated long enough for it to develop into a long-term relationship, they might then be seen as a serious couple who have progressed to sex or maybe engagement with time.
I realize that the mid-20th century dating culture isn't the natural order of things either, but it was probably a pretty good system if you were a guy with low self-esteem who was terrified of rejection.


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## Timmy Jolsen (Dec 22, 2022)

jertzog said:


> I realize that the mid-20th century dating culture isn't the natural order of things either, but it was probably a pretty good system if you were a guy with low self-esteem who was terrified of rejection.





Spoiler: Off topic



I think it was also better for women with lower sex drives, religious, cautious about STDs/pregnancy, or who are a bit bashful. Being able to date without an expectation of  'putting out' makes women more willing to date.


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## PaleTay (Dec 22, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> It's not part of the definition though, whether or not there's a huge overlap.  And there are virgins who have religious reasons for it, or just don't believe casual sex is a prudent or moral practice, and only want to have sex with a partner for life, or for whatever reason just don't want to have sex ever.
> 
> It's almost definitional about incels that they're the vilest people you could possibly imagine and you wouldn't want to spend time with them no matter what sex you are.


Isn't that most of the population at this point? Sure there are levels to being a bad person and some just aren't good people, but a lot of the men and women who are lonely at times are good people who want to spend time with other good people, or basically want to have real friends instead of company.

I really think we're reaching a point where being a good or interesting person makes you a social outcast in many situations.


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## CuzinEd (Dec 22, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> It's not part of the definition though, whether or not there's a huge overlap.  And there are virgins who have religious reasons for it, or just don't believe casual sex is a prudent or moral practice, and only want to have sex with a partner for life, or for whatever reason just don't want to have sex ever.
> 
> It's almost definitional about incels that they're the vilest people you could possibly imagine and you wouldn't want to spend time with them no matter what sex you are.


It doesn't really matter what's part of the definition because it's not a real word anyway. There is no such thing as an incel. No one is stopping these people from getting laid except themselves. If they don't want too then that's fine. They just need to stop sitting around whining raging and seething all day about it. It's not healthy. That or just admit they celibate which is actually a thing. If they refuse to have sex outside of marriage for religious reasons, then that would make them celibate. Not "incels". Like I said before that is an actual thing. 


Timmy Jolsen said:


> I think there are some men who are too ugly to ever be able to pull off a one-night stand. However, I think most men, provided they've got a good personality and a plan for life beyond sitting around all day and playing vidya, are capable of getting into a long-term relationship and finding a wife. What attracts someone for casual sex and what attracts for a long-term relationship are two different things.
> 
> So no, I don't think everyone can have casual sex. But I think nearly everyone can have sex within a real relationship.


Not really. Unless they are so ugly, they wouldn't need a mask on Halloween. Women need to stop being so Boomer tier. It's the 21st century. Video games are a popular hobby for men. Especially young men. More men are playing video games these days than ever. Also considering the economic conditions in the US more men are unemployed or under employed. Some just have more free time to play video games.


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## Timmy Jolsen (Dec 22, 2022)

CuzinEd said:


> Women need to stop being so Boomer tier. It's the 21st century. Video games are a popular hobby for men. Especially young men. More men are playing video games these days than ever. Also considering the economic conditions in the US more men are unemployed or under employed. Some just have more free time to play video games.


I was simply using excessive gaming as an example. It could as easily be replaced with watching too much TV or smoking pot all day every day. There's no problem with playing video games in and of itself, I wasn't trying to say that.


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## Kel1 shi1 (Dec 23, 2022)

jertzog said:


> Casual sex incidentally is a major reason this has gotten so bad. When the line between dating and sex blurred to become a cultural statement that if you're dating than you must surely be fucking, dating prospects for lower-echelon guys simply evaporated when being seen with them was effectively stigmatized.
> Marital status aside, it used to be that you simply didn't have sex unless you were in a committed relationship. "Going steady" is what they used to call it. This allowed people to date simply to socialize.
> There'd be no social shaming for dating below your status because you weren't seen by all as also hooking up. Whole groups of casual couples could go out and have fun someplace. If two people dated long enough for it to develop into a long-term relationship, they might then be seen as a serious couple who have progressed to sex or maybe engagement with time.
> I realize that the mid-20th century dating culture isn't the natural order of things either, but it was probably a pretty good system if you were a guy with low self-esteem who was terrified of rejection.



It's definitely something along those lines. Last time I was looking for a long term relationship I'd have women speed running to get to the bedroom. I was after something serious, but without any promoting from me  if she's throwing the pussy at me (When I'm single) I'm going to take it. She's also removed herself from the running as a potential serious partner, "Thanks for sex, now bye". 

There's no social shaming for these women, neither of you are in the same social circles and you both know nobody you know will know. They'll continue until they hit the wall.


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## Fougaro (Dec 23, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I do not give a single shit about women being raped (...)


Fucking based!

Anyways, incels - in every meaning of the word - are unavoidable.

Men who are SOL and never get their dick wet for whatever reason will always be the norm. That's pretty much the reason why women have a higher genetic diversity than men.

"Incels", as in what "nerds" were back in the 80s and 90s aka men that women find undesirable aka the bottom 80%, will also always be a thing.

"Incels", referring to men that think that feminism has been nothing but a net disaster for society or are otherwise not on board with it, will naturally be inevitable as well as long as feminism exists.

"Incels", as in terminal spergs that snap go on shooting sprees, will also always be unavoidable because the reasons for men going postal are way more complex and deep seated than simply angsting over being maidenless.

As you can see, whatever your definition of incels is, they were never avoidable and are a fact of life. However, the term itself might go way in the near future as the incel has now officially become a dead meme, especially since Henry Cavill of all people has been called one simply for preferring to spend his free time sperging about _Warhammer 40K_ rather than dealing with emotionally stunted nutcases that is the average modern westoid woman and the #MeToo nonsense. But that in itself might be another tale for another time.


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## Just A Butt (Dec 23, 2022)

Fougaro said:


> That's pretty much the reason why women have a higher genetic diversity than men.


what?


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## Fougaro (Dec 23, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> what?











						More women than men have added their DNA to the human gene pool
					

Counterintuitive effect may be the result of relatively few men mating with multiple women




					www.theguardian.com
				



Archive


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## Just A Butt (Dec 23, 2022)

that doesn't mean what you said tho


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## Chaos Theorist (Dec 23, 2022)

Legalise prostitution and the incels go away
simple as


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## Fougaro (Dec 23, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> that doesn't mean what you said tho


Let me rephrase it then: Men that never got to reproduce (or literally die as virgins) existed since time immemorial and always will. Hope that clears things up.


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## (((I am NOT a jew))) (Dec 23, 2022)

No, incels are unavoidable.
What was avoidable was the stigmatization around being one.
The word incel in the last 4 years became so broad in definition it became essentially purpose.
The unapologetic spree-shooter type who idolized Elliot Rodger became synonymous with the average nerd who occasionally bitched about the shitshow that was modern gender interaction.
I think the problem is how much importance modern society has placed on being an incel. I think in most other time-periods autistic men would feel less shame in finding validation through a nerdy hobby or becoming good at a craft and would excel quite well in it. You used to be the equivalent of "the train kid" or otaku without their being an underlying pressure outside of social exclusion within your immediate local area. But with the modern internet it's hard to be even the voluntary celibate for most men, who will feel a sense of societal pressure to be an extrovert not only with women, but in most social situations.
I think with the post-2012 internet we gave up the age where you can have the true unabashed nerd without there being some political/ideological correlation between them.


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## AnOminous (Dec 23, 2022)

Fougaro said:


> Fucking based!
> 
> Anyways, incels - in every meaning of the word - are unavoidable.
> 
> ...


Calm down incel!


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## Kel1 shi1 (Dec 23, 2022)

Chaos Theorist said:


> Legalise prostitution and the incels go away
> simple as



You can legalise it as it has been in some places, but the stigma won't go away. 

"Chad" doesn't "Have to" pay for it so they'll still be the underclass, but one that's being "exploited" for money. Or something, something like that.


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## starborn427614 (Dec 23, 2022)

As long as there's sex to be had and some people aren't getting any, there will always be some level of bitterness there.


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## Fougaro (Dec 24, 2022)

Kel1 shi1 said:


> You can legalise it as it has been in some places, but the stigma won't go away.
> 
> "Chad" doesn't "Have to" pay for it so they'll still be the underclass, but one that's being "exploited" for money. Or something, something like that.


Incels - as in the more traditional definition - are hung up on validation and insist that the women they desire choose them. From how I understood it it isn't really the lack of sex they're oy veying about - which theoretically you could fix with a hooker (or even a sex doll if you're into that sort of thing...), but the lack of companionship. If I'm not mistaken they used to be called "Forever Alone" not too long ago, which I believe makes more sense.


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## Gender: Xenomorph (Dec 24, 2022)

Fougaro said:


> Incels - as in the more traditional definition - are hung up on validation and insist that the women they desire choose them. From how I understood it it isn't really the lack of sex they're oy veying about - which theoretically you could fix with a hooker (or even a sex doll if you're into that sort of thing...), but the lack of companionship. If I'm not mistaken they used to be called "Forever Alone" not too long ago, which I believe makes more sense.


Nah forever alone meant no friends or social interaction. Nothing to do with sex or gfs.


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## LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] (Dec 24, 2022)

It really just depends if you consider incelism as straightforward "involuntary celibate" or as a whole ideology that spawned from that term.

In an older generation they would just be people like Henry Dagger that no one really thought off and lived and died alone with their closeted loli fetish fanfictions. No one was even aware enough to give them a name but every extended family had a uncle or aunt who just was a little off and never married. 

I think the phenomenom now is literal kids who really aren't even in a normal age to be complaining about their sex lives and are being gaslighted into incelism as a mindset.  There really are 13 year olds posting on those communities, even teens admitting as much on places like wizardchan. This is a purely internet made social contagion, is unavoidable because there is no compartmentalization on the internet on what reaches kids and what doesn't.


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## JackoVerde (Dec 24, 2022)

LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] said:


> I think the phenomenom now is literal kids who really aren't even in a normal age to be complaining about their sex lives and are being gaslighted into incelism as a mindset. There really are 13 year olds posting on those communities, even teens admitting as much on places like wizardchan. This is a purely internet made social contagion, is unavoidable because there is no compartmentalization on the internet on what reaches kids and what doesn't.


dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels, at first i thought that couldnt possibly be true, but with this weird social media gaslighting of young men. there could be at least a lot of self proclaimed young incels and this could be a growing problem

do i think its anywhere near 25% of young men, no way in hell thats too many. now could it be something like 5% of younge men, maybe. now if you include, MGTOW and Redpilled and shit, that number could climb up to 15% or more. since those 2 others are more palatable to the average person.


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## LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] (Dec 24, 2022)

JackoVerde said:


> dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels, at first i thought that couldnt possibly be true, but with this weird social media gaslighting of young men. there could be at least a lot of self proclaimed young incels and this could be a growing problem
> 
> do i think its anywhere near 25% of young men, no way in hell thats too many. now could it be something like 5% of younge men, maybe. now if you include, MGTOW and Redpilled and shit, that number could climb up to 15% or more. since those 2 others are more palatable to the average person.


Theres  a lot of 14 year olds calling themselves incels, thats for sure. 

Kids are getting this idea that if their middle school experience is not Animal House something is wrong, they are subhuman, society is unfair to them and life is over, forever. Of course if you are a developing with this mindset from browsing incel boards from a young age its only going to become a self fulfilled prophecy and doubtful you'll move on , mature at a normal pace and make things better for yourself


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## AnOminous (Dec 24, 2022)

Kel1 shi1 said:


> You can legalise it as it has been in some places, but the stigma won't go away.


Also say what you like about incels, a lot of them outright refuse to have sex with a prostitute.  While incels are often accused of being excessively choosy (often with merit), refusing to be a whoremonger is actually a good trait.


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## JackoVerde (Dec 24, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> Also say what you like about incels, a lot of them outright refuse to have sex with a prostitute. While incels are often accused of being excessively choosy (often with merit), refusing to be a whoremonger is actually a good trait.


maybe they should save their money and have sex with a high class call girl in a hotel, or 10/10 instagram thot.
do they think the model level women they want are for free?
that they are entitled to them or something


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## LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] (Dec 24, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> Also say what you like about incels, a lot of them outright refuse to have sex with a prostitute.  While incels are often accused of being excessively choosy (often with merit), refusing to be a whoremonger is actually a good trait.


They say they don't want whores because whores rode the cock carousel and only a 12 yr old virgin loli would suit them. A whoremonger is better really.


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## Gender: Xenomorph (Dec 26, 2022)

From what I see incels don't know how to approach women because the closest thing they have to a father figure is pickup artists, Hollywood shows or grifters like Andrew Tate. They follow their advice and fail over and over again, and then they get reassured it's the women's fault for being empty and shallow whores.


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## Arianne Chan (Dec 28, 2022)

No, there has always been a large number of people who for one reason or another cannot have love, like mental disorders, shyness, inexperience, ugliness, etc

Even if there were some method of treating it, there would still be people who would not work for this treatment. 

Just look at CWC, he was an incel even before the term itself was coined


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## PaleTay (Dec 28, 2022)

JackoVerde said:


> dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels, at first i thought that couldnt possibly be true, but with this weird social media gaslighting of young men. there could be at least a lot of self proclaimed young incels and this could be a growing problem
> 
> do i think its anywhere near 25% of young men, no way in hell thats too many. now could it be something like 5% of younge men, maybe. now if you include, MGTOW and Redpilled and shit, that number could climb up to 15% or more. since those 2 others are more palatable to the average person.


I do think suburbia and traffic congestion might make the 25% seem reasonable. Not in the sense that you're thinking, but in the sense that human connection is deeply lacking, especially with young people working more to pay for mass immigration, lockdowns, and forever wars. 

A lot of life is work, gym, commute, sleep.


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## AnOminous (Dec 30, 2022)

PaleTay said:


> I do think suburbia and traffic congestion might make the 25% seem reasonable. Not in the sense that you're thinking, but in the sense that human connection is deeply lacking, especially with young people working more to pay for mass immigration, lockdowns, and forever wars.


Also a lot of the previous means of socialization have been deemed "problematic" so people grow up gigantic man/womanbabies completely incapable of living in a society.


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## WolfeTone (Dec 30, 2022)

imo, it all boils down to who you blame for your problems. Every proud incel I've ever seen takes to blaming everything before himself, even if he does get to self-deprecating at the end of the day, he still hates the outside world so very much more. He still thinks that he should be entitled, not earn, entitled to the fruit of harvests who's seeds he had no part in planting, that is the underlying issue here. Incel mindset expects the world to be handed to it or it's a nihilistic wasteland full of darkness and judgement, which it is, but that's only a small part of the big picture, not something to focus your entire life around. Going back to who do you blame, do you lambast the world for not giving you a higher position, or do you first count your blessings and recognize all that you're above right now, grab on to your tools, and get to work sewing the field for YOUR harvest?


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## William Tyndale (Dec 30, 2022)

I think incel culture has been amplified by the anti-social behavior that has resulted from internet and phone addiction.  Girls are able to get attention from hundreds of guys at the click of a mouse instead of the few guys who are standing in front of her in person. It also allows guys to chase dozens of girl at the same time with no real emotional connection created, while also allowing the girl to dodge the guy via text or private message by simply ghosting them.  We also have a generation of men getting their dopamine rush by playing call of duty for 8 hours a day. It’s all a perfect storm that has created a generation of girls who value themselves by the amount of likes they get on social media, and a generation of guys who would rather literally twiddle their thumbs (vidya) than go out and be social.


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## PaleTay (Dec 30, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> Also a lot of the previous means of socialization have been deemed "problematic" so people grow up gigantic man/womanbabies completely incapable of living in a society.


I've found it really depends on the area, most of those people tend to congregate in certain parts of cities and it becomes a generational cycle. 


William Tyndale said:


> I think incel culture has been amplified by the anti-social behavior that has resulted from internet and phone addiction.  Girls are able to get attention from hundreds of guys at the click of a mouse instead of the few guys who are standing in front of her in person. It also allows guys to chase dozens of girl at the same time with no real emotional connection created, while also allowing the girl to dodge the guy via text or private message by simply ghosting them.  We also have a generation of men getting their dopamine rush by playing call of duty for 8 hours a day. It’s all a perfect storm that has created a generation of girls who value themselves by the amount of likes they get on social media, and a generation of guys who would rather literally twiddle their thumbs (vidya) than go out and be social.


I think that's mostly time and energy, it's easier in real life because you have focus. I think that's a problem created by long commutes and long work hours mostly. I know a lot of girls with 10k+ followers, they're mostly lonely but some of the influencers have an ego. I try not to fault someone working two jobs for missing a text and apologizing sometimes when we do stuff in real life.


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## xXx: State of the Union (Dec 30, 2022)

Probably not.  

Incels biggest problems tend to be an avoidance of social situations and a sense of entitlement, from what I've seen.  If they actually went and did things and tried to meet people, they'd probably meet someone willing to fuck them.  Instead they stick to apps and online shit that lacks so much personality that everything relies on looks.

Then there are the ones that feel entitled to some perfect woman or have strict/niche criteria. 

Basically to avoid it you would have had to have society completely go a different direction in like...the early 90s?  Probably even earlier tbqh


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## anustart76 (Jan 3, 2023)

William Tyndale said:


> I think incel culture has been amplified by the anti-social behavior that has resulted from internet and phone addiction.  Girls are able to get attention from hundreds of guys at the click of a mouse instead of the few guys who are standing in front of her in person. It also allows guys to chase dozens of girl at the same time with no real emotional connection created, while also allowing the girl to dodge the guy via text or private message by simply ghosting them.  We also have a generation of men getting their dopamine rush by playing call of duty for 8 hours a day. It’s all a perfect storm that has created a generation of girls who value themselves by the amount of likes they get on social media, and a generation of guys who would rather literally twiddle their thumbs (vidya) than go out and be social.





xXx: State of the Union said:


> Probably not.
> 
> Incels biggest problems tend to be an avoidance of social situations and a sense of entitlement, from what I've seen.  If they actually went and did things and tried to meet people, they'd probably meet someone willing to fuck them.  Instead they stick to apps and online shit that lacks so much personality that everything relies on looks.
> 
> ...


I think it goes deeper than that; I don't think they know _how_ to go out and be social or meet people. There aren't a lot of avenues for it these days once you're out of school, and even if they do manage to go out, they're so lost they don't see any value in it because they have no idea how to take advantage of it.


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## Ridley (Jan 3, 2023)

>"just go out and meet people bro"
>"but also let me explain how men & women now are all socially-malformed retards who have been trained wrong by the internet"
Half of you sound like pic related with some of this "advice":


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Jan 3, 2023)

Incels were an avoidable problem, and are a fixable problem; but no society with such a problem would want to fix it. Because fixing it would require changes from both the incels and the rest of society, and a considerable chunk of the rest of society actively benefits from the issues that created the incel dilemma. 
Specifically, the sexual revolution combined with the vastly increased dating pools enabled by dating apps and social media has obliterated the modern dating scene, for many reasons. Here's just a few of them:

Sex has gone from an act reserved for committed, long term relationships to something that happens frequently on the first date. Which incentivizes less honest "Chads" into getting this first-date sex (often by pressuring the woman into it by implying that it's normal, and that she's a prude and he won't date her if she doesn't), and then immediately ghosting said woman and jumping to the next woman (which thanks to the widened dating pool is super easy). Once this happens a few times, the woman becomes jaded and bitter, and drops out of the dating scene entirely.
The widened dating pools means that you now have a lot more competition when trying to find a partner. When you're competing with the most attractive men in a several mile radius, it's hard to compete unless you're at their level, which most people aren't. Especially when those men are the sort who, as mentioned above, have no intention of long term relationships, who will date well below their own level for some quick once-and-done sex. It's like comparing competing at a countywide sports tournament to competing at a nationwide one.
Dating apps prioritize appearances over everything else. When was the last time you (man or woman alike) ever read a person's description on one of those apps? Most people go purely off the first few pictures to decide whether it's a yes or a no. It's just more noticeable with women since there's a lot more men that'll say yes to basically anyone with a pulse. This is great for people who look good but are noxious people otherwise, but terrible for people who are fantastic in everything BUT looks.
Social media blasts extremely attractive people in your face whenever you use it, and young people use it a lot. When the people you and others are compared to are the top percentages of people, naturally you're going to look bad in comparison.
More and more relationships are starting via the internet. Current statistics suggest around 40% of relationships start on the internet (not specifically dating apps, mind you, but most other places on the internet have similar issues to the ones mentioned above). As previously mentioned, dating in this way sucks if you aren't gifted in the looks department.

Incels are just a weird side-effect caused by this situation. Contrary to popular belief, not all "involuntary celibates" are violent rampaging misogynists (thought those that choose to wear the 'incel' label with pride probably are), and a good chunk of them aren't even ugly. 

A good chunk of them are just very lonely men with body dysmorphia (and often other mental illnesses as well), who've internalized the idea that if they don't meet the stereotype of the 'perfect man', they're doomed to remain single for the rest of their days. It's the same mental issue that drives women to starve themselves because they constantly see themselves as 'too fat', or men to spend every waking minute in the gym and taking steroids because they're 'not strong enough'. Only it's arguably worse because many of the things they see as the issues causing this (height, skeletal structure, penis size, hair loss, certain medical conditions, etc) are things that either cannot be changed, or can only be changed with prohibitively expensive surgery. Naturally when people _feel_ that they're doomed to a life of loneliness due to factors out of their control, they're going to grow anxious, depressed, and oftentimes resentful to society as a whole.
Just like how girls and women were developing body dysmorphia (and eating disorders) from the skinny, heavily airbrushed models in magazines back in the 2000's, boys and men are developing body dysmorphia from social media and the 10/10 men that are plastered all over it. However, unlike what happened with women, where these magazines were called out and frowned upon for the mental illnesses they were arguably causing (over in the UK at least, we had a ton of documentaries on this subject), there's no real pushback from society in this modern male case; the masses are perfectly fine with this state of affairs. 

If we treated the women that suffered from body dysmorphia back then the same way we treat the men suffering from it today, the health issues caused by it would be so much worse. Imagine if making fun of the weight of women dealing with anorexia was seen as perfectly acceptable, and the women that called out this behaviour were mocked themselves. That'd make their mental health a lot worse, correct? As that's basically what we do with unattractive men right now. Laughing at dudes for being under 6 foot or having weak chins/jaws and saying they'll die alone because of it is seen as the absolute peak of comedy by many people, which is probably why these features that commonly get mocked are such sticking points with men suffering from body dysmorphia.
Like it or not, unattractive men are a socially-acceptable punching bag. You can mock them for their appearance, and unlike mocking that of a woman (where you'd be called a vile, misogynistic incel for doing so), you can get away with it. Hell, you'll occasionally be cheered on for doing it. Even when you're not the direct target of this mockery, seeing someone else get mocked for a feature you yourself have will likely make you feel like shit as well. It doesn't matter how many people tell you that those things "don't matter", seeing the mockery of those things be so widespread paints a much stronger picture.  And even then, many of those that claim they don't matter will jump on the opportunity to make fun of those same things when it's trendy to do so.

The masses claim that your appearances "don't matter" while mocking them indirectly or directly, bluepillers tell you the same while also saying that it's actually YOUR fault that you're like this, redpill grifters claim that you just need to "self-improve bro" and develop a different type of body dysmorphia to solve your issues (just lift bro); no group actually points out the elephant in the room of male mental health issues, as pointing it out would make them look bad. However, there is one group that actually points out this issue in society with how men are treated; incels. The issue is they sandwich their ideas with a load of absolute batshit insanity, but when they're the only group talking about your issue, the only group that seemingly supports you, many people will take what they can get.
To point at a similar example, it's not that different from the Hindus and Sikhs who supported the EDL (a group that they'd otherwise completely disagree with) purely because they were the only group talking about the grooming gangs rife in North England back during the 90s and 2000s.


Unfortunately, there is no law that can be passed to truly 'fix' it, the only way it could be fixed is a change in society as a whole, a change in how men are treated both by women and by other men. But such a change won't happen, the ones who aren't negatively impacted by it either don't care, or actively enjoy having a socially acceptable punching bag to take their own insecurities out on. C'est la vie.

TL;DR:


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## cybertoaster (Jan 3, 2023)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Literally no one irl outside of retarded fundies, and tradfags gives a shit if you're a virgin.


Bro where the fuck did you live? if we knew a guy was a virgin in senior year HS the entire school wouldnt stop making fun of him, and fundies will start doubting about your "compromise to marriage and chastity" if you're reaching your late 20's and still don't have a steady gf. They will likely think you're a closeted homo, tho now that's way better than being thought of an incel.


jertzog said:


> There'd be no social shaming for dating below your status


Yeah there was, and dating below your class was a major faux pass too.


PaleTay said:


> I really think we're reaching a point where being a good or interesting person makes you a social outcast in many situations.


Agree, that's because people think you're either a sort of conman trying to pull a trick on them or you're a simpleton since we are approaching zero-trust as a society.

I been to some third world countries and all the societies there were zero-trust, everybody assumed other people were out to harm/rob them so communities were atomized af. I was told only in very small towns did any sort of trust still remain but they were very wary of outsiders and dirt poor.


Fougaro said:


> Let me rephrase it then: Men that never got to reproduce (or literally die as virgins) existed since time immemorial and always will. Hope that clears things up.


Not only that but countries like france had to ban paternity tests because a ridiculously high number of men were raising other men's kids, and the french state didn't want to foot the bill of child support.


JackoVerde said:


> dont incels proclaim the like 25% of young men are incels


There's a study that says one third of all men aged 18-27 are virgins or didn't get sex in the last 3 years.


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## gigatard (Jan 3, 2023)

Incels as in men who hate women because they can't get laid have always existed, even when young men died in higher numbers than today.

Incels as a community only exist because of social media and porn addiction. The modern "incel" is your typical bog-standard sexually frustrated misogynist who have always existed, except now that man gets hopelessly lost in the ever-intensifying cycle of dopamine stimulation that is the modern internet. Jerk off to porn, cry because it'll never be real life, commiserate with other incels about it, jerk off to feel better, rinse lather repeat. Plus, the interaction with fellow incels they have on their little forums is probably the most meaningful socializing they ever partake it--they have literally no reason to give any of that up.

Anyway, incels are funny as hell to watch and I agree with the poster who said he hopes they never go away. Every post on their forums reads like those r/atheism copypastas from 2011, except instead of everyone clapping it's Stacy screaming and running away after OP calls her a slut. Although to be fair, pretty women running away from ugly autistic losers is a lot more likely to have actually happened than everyone at the bookstore clapping for someone who gets caught moving Bibles to the Fiction section.


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