# why shouldn't I be a leftist?



## Farmer Dave (Dec 7, 2019)

I'm someone who describes themselves as a leftist, mostly because I support unions, single-payer healthcare, worker empowerment, removing corporate subsidies, etc. and to my knowledge this forum is right-wing one, so I wanted to see if any one where could make a convincing argument as to why someone shouldn't support the left. so, why shouldn't be a leftist?


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## Oskar Dirlewanger (Dec 7, 2019)

You can't say the word nigger if you're a leftist


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Dec 7, 2019)

Because unless you live in the US what you describe isn't really a left wing stance, but more a centrist one.

Even the right wing parties in Europe generally favour things like universal healthcare and some degree of union rights. It's just that the US is so far out of wack they consider things like Bernie (someone who is further right than most European right wing politicians) to be some crackpot commie when he really isn't.

As for why as a socially conservative but economically left wing person such as myself doesn't vote for a left wing party; it's because I'm neither pro-Islam, a third/fourth wave feminist or woke; and the left-wing parties today have no grasp on economics or reality these days with how they intend to keep rich people staying in their home countries to pay mega taxes or cover all the free gibs that go beyond universal healthcare.


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## The Pink Panther (Dec 7, 2019)

>right-wing Kiwifarms

Mythology is a great study.


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## Marco Fucko (Dec 7, 2019)

It's absolutely fine to support policies that would help out common people. The "branding" of leftism is kind of weird in my opinion, although the far right is just as weird to be fair. I've been watching Vaush videos in the background and I burst out laughing when he said "I'm a cuck" very casually. I feel like people get caught up in these brandings and start blindly following things that are tangentially related to them.


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## ProgKing of the North (Dec 7, 2019)

To my mind, neither the left or the right actually gives a shit about individual liberty when it's for stuff they don't like, so you gotta just pick the side that's gonna fuck you and the people you care about over less, and if that happens to change, just switch sides. It's not like either group of cunts deserves your loyalty.


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## The Pink Panther (Dec 7, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> To my mind, neither the left or the right actually gives a shit about individual liberty when it's for stuff they don't like, so you gotta just pick the side that's gonna fuck you and the people you care about over less, and if that happens to change, just switch sides. It's not like either group of cunts deserves your loyalty.


Why would anyone support a side that will fuck them over less? If I want individual liberty, I just sit back and watch the madness.


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## ProgKing of the North (Dec 7, 2019)

The Pink Panther said:


> Why would anyone support a side that will fuck them over less? If I want individual liberty, I just sit back and watch the madness.


Fair point 

Replace "support" with "be marginally less upset when they win"


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## Pop-Tart (Dec 7, 2019)

Something something libtards r bad something something. Commies r libturds etc.

Don't rely on shitty memes or youtubers like retards. Just read actual philosophy and come to your own conclusions.


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## Yaniv’s Hairy Balls (Dec 7, 2019)

Why on earth would literally anyone care what politics you hold? You can be a commie and still point and laugh at spergs.


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## Consenticles (Dec 7, 2019)

Not here to change your views, but I would like to educate this forum on unions (if you dont already know)....

Unions were a good thing, once when working conditions in auto factories were deplorable. Now there are legal protections in working environments. Unionization is used as a tool to group workers up, providing them with access to benefits they already have, or could have without the formation of the union.

Unions are a way to cripple everyone. They take a % of every paycheck and dont give a shit about you. UAW in Michigan (or perhaps it was Ohio) refused to allow car companies to send direct deposits instead of the actual physical paycheck. Switching to this would save around a dollar per paycheck. But no, the Union gashed upper management for this.

If you do not believe the unions to be as corrupt, or even more corrupt than they were back in the Hoffa days, then you should look into it. 

My own experience is within the auto industry, so I dont want to give examples outside of this... but the idea of a union existing in a first world country is awful. 

Imagine you are excited for your Christmas bonus. You're going to buy little Johnny a PC, because hes been a console peasant and it's time to show him the ways of the master race. Your wife can finally get that Hitachi "massager" she has been bitching  about all year, because your dick isn't enough to please her.

Now imagine Billy, the union rep in your auto plant, does not like the wages the company is paying. What is fine for you is not fine for Billy, and he's found a hundred other employees who want to also make more cash!

Billy and friends force your entire factory to go on strike. That means you, even if you have all your ducks in a row. You are now part of this strike, you will not be receiving pay during this time. 

That bonus? Company cannot afford it after the strike lasted 3 weeks, losing hundreds of millions of dollars. I am not exaggerating this number. If anything, it is small. And what's more - your plant has to lay off a handful of workers in order to meet company demands and fit within the budget.

You didn't want to strike, but it's you who is being laid off. It is your children who are stuck playing games on a fucking outdated xbox. It is your wife who is both physically and mentally unsatisfied with you.

But Billy's brother who is the Union President doesn't care. That cut you've been taking out of your paycheck each month? He's pocketing that no matter what. And it's nothing compared to what you made.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Dec 7, 2019)

The Pink Panther said:


> Why would anyone support a side that will fuck them over less? If I want individual liberty, I just sit back and watch the madness.



It's better than the other one getting in.

The next general election I get to vote in the "choice" is between a super woke left wing candidate who is convinced that looking at a woman is sexual assault and should be a prosecutable offence and a right wing candidate who wants to cut taxes for big business but isn't going to require me to take "how not to rape" classes at work. 

I think they're both assholes but I know which one I'm voting for.


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## Diabeetus (Dec 7, 2019)

> and to my knowledge this forum is right-wing one



It is not. There are plenty of leftists on here that post on the site like everyone else. As long as you don't start saying that people have 'gold fish brains' for not wanting to watch a 2-hour video debunking a graph, you should be fine.


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## Farmer Dave (Dec 7, 2019)

Consenticles said:


> Not here to change your views, but I would like to educate this forum on unions (if you dont already know)....
> 
> Unions were a good thing, once when working conditions in auto factories were deplorable. Now there are legal protections in working environments. Unionization is used as a tool to group workers up, providing them with access to benefits they already have, or could have without the formation of the union.
> 
> ...


unions only fuction when everyone is willing to support them, scabs do nothing but benefit from unions while doing nothing to help them. generally speaking countries with stronger unions (germany, france, etc.) have shorter working hours and better benefits because their unions are able to negotiate from a stronger position. if your entire argument against unions is "well i can't afford an x box now" that's...stupid.


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## crocodilian (Dec 7, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> Even the right wing parties in Europe generally favour things like universal healthcare and some degree of union rights. It's just that the US is so far out of wack they consider things like Bernie (someone who is further right than most European right wing politicians) to be some crackpot commie when he really isn't.



Bernie's just a crackpot in general. He's also a paid establishment crony and cites meaningless platitudes to appeal to a miseducated base.


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## Otterly (Dec 7, 2019)

Your politics are your own, and no one should be telling you what to think, 

I previously considered myself left of centre, in the sense of protections for workers, fairness for the working man, the NHS etc. Now there’s no real sensible left wing or centrist option to vote for in my country (the UK.) the left have abandoned the country’s workers and are just pushing massive social change.
One thing I do think the left suffers from more than the right just now is an authoritarian desire to control what other people believe and think, and an odd stance that anything they do is ‘correct’ simply because they are left. The right tend more to individual autonomy.
 I’ve never been someone who wants to be labelled as belong to a certain group or club or tribe. No group has ever been in the right all the time and I don’t like being told what to think. Right now i wouldn’t describe myself as a leftist or right wing and I will vote for whomever I think is least bad at that current time and whose policies will have the least bad short and long term impacts. Right now in the UK that’s the Tories, but I’m not going to describe myself as a Tory. 
what I do believe very sincerely is that *nobody who wants power should be allowed anywhere near it. *


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## Lemmingwise (Dec 7, 2019)

Farmer Dave said:


> generally speaking countries with stronger unions (germany, france, etc.) have shorter working hours and better benefits because their unions are able to negotiate from a stronger position



Doubtful. They also had shorter working days compared to other countries before they got unions.



> I support unions, single-payer healthcare, worker empowerment, removing corporate subsidies, etc. and to my knowledge this forum is right-wing one, so I wanted to see if any one where could make a convincing argument as to why someone shouldn't support the left. so, why shouldn't be a leftist?



Why would a government in an oligarchy remove corporate subsidies or empower workers? Doesn't really matter if you vote/support left or right, neither is going to do that. Same thing with mass migration. Doesn't matter whether you vote right, you're still going to get it, because it's in the interest of oligarchs and they run the country.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Dec 7, 2019)

Farmer Dave said:


> unions only fuction when everyone is willing to support them, scabs do nothing but benefit from unions while doing nothing to help them. generally speaking countries with stronger unions (germany, france, etc.) have shorter working hours and better benefits because their unions are able to negotiate from a stronger position. if your entire argument against unions is "well i can't afford an x box now" that's...stupid.



It literally depends on what the unions interests are.

Contrast a German union based around securing and defending certain standards of working conditions and hours vs the British unions who back Corbyn and ever increasingly identity/ethnic positive discrimination allowances and have demonstrated exactly zero interest in the past twenty years in stopping things like zero hour contracts in which people are often _losing_ money going to work some days.

Some unions are good at defending worker rights, others are little more than a lobbying group.


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## ThePurpleProse (Dec 7, 2019)

@Farmer Dave motherfucker, you're a true leftard, the first thing you did is classify an entire forum with a label due some prejudice conviction that I bet not even you know where the fuck you picked it up, if that doesn't tell you that the path you're choosing is the wrong one then this post is pointless because you didn't created this to be convinced, you already made up your mind.


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## Y2K Baby (Dec 7, 2019)

Having political convictions is for genuine morons.


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## Farmer Dave (Dec 7, 2019)

ThePurpleProse said:


> @Farmer Dave motherfucker, you're a true leftard, the first thing you did is classify an entire forum with a label due some prejudice conviction that I bet not even you know where the fuck you picked it up, if that doesn't tell you that the path you're choosing is the wrong one then this post is pointless because you didn't created this to be convinced, you already made up your mind.


lol ur mad


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Dec 7, 2019)

Farmer Dave said:


> lol ur mad



OMG sick burn. Slay kween.


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## JosephStalin (Dec 7, 2019)

Despite my moniker here, I'm more of a centrist, probably a little right on the centrist continuum.  For example, I want Constitutional carry of concealed weapons, but far as abortion goes am staunchly pro-choice.  I look at the issue and take my stand, and so should everyone.

I don't care for unions, either.  In some unions, if you aren't "in" with the union local leadership, you don't get sent out on too many jobs, at least good ones.  

In my opinion anyone who deems themselves a "leftist" or a "rightist", or even worse, a "far-leftist" or a "far-rightist"  hasn't really taken the time to consider the issues and determine their stance on the issues.   If you do this, believe you end up somewhere in the large mass comprising the center.

On a side note, the Democratic Party is really fucking themselves as they tack further and further left.  Not enough leftists of their ilk to win an election.  If they could run someone who wasn't batshit crazy and had a bunch of centrist positions that person might have a chance against President Trump in 2020.  But the Dems have cut off their nose to spite their face and they are going to lose again in November.   Too many in the center will turn away from the Dems and vote for Trump, even if holding their noses.


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## qt farmer :) (Dec 7, 2019)

despite what people say about centrism, I think a well-rounded & sane individual resides mostly somewhere in the center. extreme leanings also change and morph with the times, and right now we are in the middle of a cultural slump, so in today's political climate, if you go too far left, you have dangerhair troons and their ilk screaming about oppression that doesn't exist any chance they get. if you go too far right, you have people who have "Deus Vult" written everywhere, hate Jews, and who know a little too much about WW2, while being afraid to wash their own ass because it's gay.

basically; being an acolyte of either is mostly a product of adhering a little too closely to biased media. if you want to be a lefty or a righty, it's up to you. I'm not going to convince you to not be a leftist, but just know that if you go too far down on either end, the only thing you're going to be is a colossal faggot.


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## Dom Cruise (Dec 7, 2019)

The big problem with the left as far as I can see is they don't know how to police themselves and distance themselves from the crackpots, the left has the attitude that if something is left leaning, it must be true, if a left leaning person say something (especially they're "a woman or person of color") then it must be taken seriously.

Meanwhile on the right there's no obligation to take the radial right seriously, plenty of conservatives are not down with Neo Nazis or whatever, if you don't agree with the radical right then you are not attacked by almost every conservative for not being a "real" conservative.

There are far too many toxic, wrongheaded ideas that have cropped on the left side and you're not allowed to disagree with them without everyone on the left attacking and claiming you aren't a "real" liberal.

Said ideas are far too dangerous and evil to tolerate, so if moderate liberals can't learn to distance themselves from it the left as a whole is fucked.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Dec 7, 2019)

> and to my knowledge this forum is right-wing one


The Farms are neutral on politics. We're here to laugh at people, 'cause that's fun, debating politics is not so much, it brings out the worst in people.

Yet I wonder, where does this meme "Kiwi Farms = right-wing" come from? I mean, we're not /pol/ or 8chan.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Dec 7, 2019)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> Yet I wonder, where does this meme "Kiwi Farms = right-wing" come from? I mean, we're not /pol/ or 8chan.



We don't faun over and tell trans women of colour how stunning and brave they are; we've got to be Neo-Nazi's right?


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## crocodilian (Dec 7, 2019)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> The Farms are neutral on politics. We're here to laugh at people, 'cause that's fun, debating politics is not so much, it brings out the worst in people.
> 
> Yet I wonder, where does this meme "Kiwi Farms = right-wing" come from? I mean, we're not /pol/ or 8chan.



Kiwifarms is casually deemed right-wing because people aren't casually censored here. Compare to Reddit, Resetera or NeoGaf, which is often called left-leaning and moderates in a very heavyhanded way.


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## Tism the Return (Dec 7, 2019)

You lose your meme card


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## Mrs Paul (Dec 7, 2019)

I've made no secret that my politics lean left, but I also don't think that being on the right automatically makes you evil.  I think that's a problem with politics.  (And no, it's not necessarily anything new)  

It's that you don't want to look like a Tumblr leftist.    In fact, there's a tumblr page that someone made about that very problem. (I think I've linked to it before, but it's a good read)

So don't worry about it.  Eventually you learn not to give a shit what people think.  


Plus, a lot of the cows we make fun of are leftists (such as Riley Dennis).  That doesn't help.

And let's face it:  there are a lot of people on the left who seem to fit the stereotype of being so open-minded their brains fall out.


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## Y2K Baby (Dec 7, 2019)

JosephStalin said:


> goes am staunchly pro-choice


Kill yourself, my dude.


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## DtoDab (Dec 7, 2019)

I don't like politics that much

I generally favour policies where the taxpayer money goes back to the population in the form of public services.

I'm not left because I grew up with conservative family, and share conservative values, that and reading about socialism and communism soured me about collectivist ideologies, the good intentions never outweighs the disastrous results in trying to control human nature.

While I hope I'm not making some sort of unfair generalization, I feel the modern left is too incompatible if not vocally hostile towards values that I feel deserve if not agreement, deserve at least polite respect, it's not a culture I feel welcoming or even sincere, it seems dominated not by consistent inner values of freedom or equality, but rather reenforced by fear and enforced social punishment, hard pass for me.

An example of what is seen as culturally and socially acceptable was the attacks to the Covington Catholic kid, where you had journalists openly wishing harm on the child, This for me is a culture too fucked up to be taken seriously.

I don't like thought policing and orwellian social control, if the right was pushing this shit I would be equally against it.

I understand and appreciate the roles of both progressive and conservative mindsets in a functioning society, but I mostly separate what is conservative/progressive from what is right/left, but for me individualism and freedom of expression will always be values under a counterculture, only depending on what is the side dominating the current cultural climate, sometimes the right is being controlling, this decade, I feel it's what you call the left that is doing it.

In the end, the labels don't matter so much.


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## Overcast (Dec 7, 2019)

*Why shouldn't I be a leftist*

Why should you be anything in this false dichotomy we call the political spectrum?


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## Longjack Attack (Dec 7, 2019)

The labels of leftist and right-winger are overrated. There is nothing wrong with being multifaceted within your beliefs and how you view and interpret your experiences. Once you start devoting yourself to these labels, anything you say that's outside the belief spectrum will probably get you shamed and ostracized within those said groups. Just ditch the label and stick to your own guts.


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## Chive Turkey (Dec 7, 2019)

Because you're enough of a faggot as it is.



Fagatron said:


> Even the right wing parties in Europe generally favour things like universal healthcare and some degree of union rights. It's just that the US is so far out of wack they consider things like Bernie (someone who is further right than most European right wing politicians) to be some crackpot commie when he really isn't.


This is an utter meme that American leftists seem to perpetuate to make their ideas seem more palatable, even though actual old school Socialist parties in the EU would find many of his ideas a bit far-fetched. You'd have to be drinking lead-based paint to think he's more right-wing than Euro right-wingers. Let's review some of his proposed policies:

-a child's idea of a wealth tax (when nearly all Euro countries have largely abandoned even their far more sensible ones, or are all planning to)
-force corporations to sell stocks to their employees until a certain percentage is met
-_Double _the minimum wage (even the unions here are asking for it to be raised by half at most)
-opposed austerity measures in Greece (political suicide anywhere in the EU outside of Greece)
-opposed military intervention against ISIS (unpopular even here)
-abolish tuition fees and student debt entirely (only the Nordic countries really do this)
-supports Green New Deal (excessive eco-activism has proven very divisive here)
-single-player healthcare (most euro countries actually have a mixed system, completely socializing it isn't that popular among the centre-left)
-the race and gender pandering (generally not as big a deal here)

All in all, he'd be a pretty staunchly Far Left candidate in most European countries. Quite a few of his central policies would make him more extreme than a few actual Socialist parties. I don't think there's anything wrong with supporting him, but the dude is just quite radical. Pretending that Hard Left viewpoints are the Centre won't do anyone any favours.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 8, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> Even the right wing parties in Europe generally favour things like universal healthcare and some degree of union rights. It's just that the US is so far out of wack they consider things like Bernie (someone who is further right than most European right wing politicians) to be some crackpot commie when he really isn't.


The US system is shit, thats the problem. forced unions are a Nazi tactic and you cant pay for universal healthcare in an antiwork society.
Bernie would be considered far left in europe, and also very racist. but not a socialist or Commie.



Consenticles said:


> My own experience is within the auto industry, so I dont want to give examples outside of this... but the idea of a union existing in a first world country is awful.


The biggest Car company is controlled by unions and the local government and it beats every Us company in every field, while paying better for less hours.



Webby's Boyfriend said:


> Yet I wonder, where does this meme "Kiwi Farms = right-wing" come from? I mean, we're not /pol/ or 8chan.


Yes, where does that come from?



Chive Turkey said:


> This is an utter meme that American leftists seem to perpetuate to make their ideas seem more palatable, even though actual old school Socialist parties in the EU would find many of his ideas a bit far-fetched.


American leftiest are the Scum of the earth...




Chive Turkey said:


> -force corporations to sell stocks to their employees until a certain percentage is met


Well the UK has the same Idea.
Germany doesnt, the unions and the Industry talked to the government, Its less taxes so big companies can pay a small amount in stocks if they want.
The unions and local reps have also alot of power inside the company leadership
stuff like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitbestimmungsgesetz 



Chive Turkey said:


> -opposed austerity measures in Greece (political suicide anywhere in the EU outside of Greece)


Well he wasnt wrong about that. a haircut for better laws would have been the better solution.
Greece had a problem with corruption, not with to much welfare for people who need it.



Chive Turkey said:


> -single-player healthcare (most euro countries actually have a mixed system, completely socializing it isn't that popular among the centre-left)


thats because everybody but the brits like their system. im also not sure if there are many mixed countrys, i think its only germany with a real mix.



Chive Turkey said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with supporting him, but the dude is just quite radical.


He is very stupid and old.


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## Y2K Baby (Dec 8, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> Bernie (someone who is further right than most European right wing politicians)


Utter moron.


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## Consenticles (Dec 8, 2019)

@Stoneheart 

Absolutely agree it is a broken system as a whole. Just airing out personal grievances I have experienced second hand.

It's not about all the wasted money going into a few union officials pockets. Though this is a big factor as to why I am against them. It is the fact that people who want to work and not strike get punished. In some cases they lose their jobs.

I fully endorse the benefits of unions where they are needed, but once labor hits a certain bench line all you are doing is accelerating the automatic process that will eventually take over your job. Machines do not strike. They do not make demands on their employers. 

 Plus general rule of thumb is that crippling the company that pays you is hardly ever a good idea.... especially if your end goal is to be paid more.


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## Hal (Dec 8, 2019)

This thread is for libtards!!!!!!


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## El Porko Fako (Dec 8, 2019)

Because all the big bullies on A&H will make fun of your small peepee and call you a lib.


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## annoyingfuck (Dec 8, 2019)

There is one single reason you shouldn't be a leftist.

They eat their own.


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## Chive Turkey (Dec 8, 2019)

Stoneheart said:


> American leftiest are the Scum of the earth...


They definitely come across as particularly vindictive, delusional and dangerous, but this could just be a case of 'the grass is browner on the other side', considering many Yanks think the same about ours.


> Well the UK has the same Idea.


The UK also has had the worst industrial and labour relations track record in Europe because they pull shit like this. They're lucky as fuck they managed to jump ship to services effectively, because they would be ex-Soviet tier if they hadn't.


> Germany doesnt, the unions and the Industry talked to the government, Its less taxes so big companies can pay a small amount in stocks if they want.
> The unions and local reps have also alot of power inside the company leadership
> stuff like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitbestimmungsgesetz


 Throughout the continent, it ranges from cooperation like that, to just people doing their jobs without much involvement in the company. Semi-socializing all corporations is unnecessary and frankly unwanted, even traditional Socialist parties realize its bad optics to argue for nationalisation of non-essential industries in current year.


> Well he wasnt wrong about that. a haircut for better laws would have been the better solution.
> Greece had a problem with corruption, not with to much welfare for people who need it.


 The point is more that this issue split the Left in most European countries: moderates strongly advocating Greek austerity to save the Eurobux, and hardliners opposing any notion of it. The austerity option was also by far the most popular among non-Greeks. Had he been a European politician, Bernie's stance on the issue would've alienated him from the Centre-Left and definitely made him unpopular with a huge percentage of the population of nearly any given EU country.


> thats because everybody but the brits like their system. im also not sure if there are many mixed countrys, i think its only germany with a real mix.


Mixed systems are pretty much the norm outside of the Nordic ones, I think. Even the Brits and French have private options for people who pay/care more for them. Like with the Greek question, fully socializing healthcare in most countries is a defining issue which seperates the Centre- from the Far Left.


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## JosephStalin (Dec 8, 2019)

crocodilian said:


> Kiwifarms is casually deemed right-wing because people aren't casually censored here. Compare to Reddit, Resetera or NeoGaf, which is often called left-leaning and moderates in a very heavyhanded way.



Same with Alternatehistory.com.   Very left-leaning.   Mods/board owner can be very heavy-handed.  If you aren't pretty far left you really have to watch your comments, to the various stories, the topics in their political "chat" and your "private" messages.  Mods/board owner can and do look at those, too.  Kicks and bans aplenty there, some merited, some not.


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## Lemmingwise (Dec 8, 2019)

Y2K Baby said:


> Kill yourself, my dude.


Revenge of the unborn child.


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## Y2K Baby (Dec 8, 2019)

annoyingfuck said:


> There is one single reason you shouldn't be a leftist.
> 
> They eat their own.


Everyone does.


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## Terrorist (Dec 10, 2019)

All the reasons why you want to be a leftist, and all the reasons you shouldn't be what we call "leftist" these days, are both the reasons to become a nazbol.


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## A Welsh Cake (Dec 10, 2019)

this world is biased towards right handed people, or rightists as you would say.


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## MrJokerRager (Dec 10, 2019)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> The Farms are neutral on politics. We're here to laugh at people, 'cause that's fun, debating politics is not so much, it brings out the worst in people.
> 
> Yet I wonder, where does this meme "Kiwi Farms = right-wing" come from? I mean, we're not /pol/ or 8chan.


Rational wiki told me so it must be true and ED really doesn't like this site looking at their article on this site.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Dec 10, 2019)

MrJokerRager said:


> Rational wiki told me so it must be true and ED really doesn't like this site looking at their article on this site.


Rational Wiki was infiltrated by SJWs long ago, and ED hates _everybody_.


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## Manwithn0n0men (Dec 10, 2019)

> I'm someone who describes themselves as a leftist, mostly because I support unions, single-payer healthcare, worker empowerment, removing corporate subsidies, etc. and to my knowledge this forum is right-wing one, so I wanted to see if any one where could make a convincing argument as to why someone shouldn't support the left. so, why shouldn't be a leftist?



@Farmer Dave This isnt a left or right wing sight


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## FuckedUp (Dec 10, 2019)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> Rational Wiki was infiltrated by SJWs long ago, and ED hates _everybody_.


Wasn't Rational Wiki _started_ by SJWs?


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## HeyYou (Dec 10, 2019)

FuckedUp said:


> Wasn't Rational Wiki _started_ by SJWs?


It was started by fedora-tier YouTube skeptics, if I remember correctly. But it was started in response to conservapedia (mainly its hilariously unscientific articles on creationism and such), so I guess you could say it was doomed from the start.


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## Spunt (Dec 10, 2019)

To re-iterate what a few others have said, there is American "leftism" and proper European hardcore leftism. My politics (at least on economic issues) would be closer to the former, but a very long way from the latter. To quote your examples from the OP:



> I support unions



The idea of a union is good. Having organised labour as a collective counterweight to management should ensure nobody gets screwed. However, what you will often find is that under leftist European administrations, unions (particularly public sector unions or other monopolies) will use their power to effectively extort money from the taxpayer. London Underground tube drivers get £50k a year and ridiculous holiday allowances and time off. They get paid nearly three times what a bus driver gets, work barely half the hours, despite bus driving being a much harder and more stressful job than driving a tube train (that these days literally drive themselves from stop to stop with the push of one button). Why? Because every time the tube drivers feel like getting even more money or longer holidays they hold London hostage until they get it. Because London's buses are run by a variety of different companies, if one company's drivers go on strike it doesn't bring the nation's economic heart to a complete halt.

Or, see France, and what happens whenever someone suggests that workers there ought to, you know, work once in a while or not get pensions that are so over-generous they are bankrupting the state.



> single-payer healthcare



Single-payer healthcare good. Massive state health monolith bad. Take a look at the NHS and its awful patient outcomes, filthy, mismanged, debt-ridden hospitals and overworked staff. This is the model most European leftists want, for some reason. And in the UK it's such a political sacred cow that rather than reform it to a more functional mixed-market (but still single-payer) model like those in Portugal, Singapore or Australia (which thrash the NHS in almost every statistic, from fairness to value for money to death rates) politicians here just promise to throw more money at it, which just disappears into a black hole.



> worker empowerment



An excellent idea, and in Europe a fundamentally right-wing one. Employee share ownership was a core Thatcher policy, and "continuous improvement" was imported from the (decidedly Conservative) Japan. Ask workers in properly left-wing places like China, the USSR or Venezuela how "empowered" they are. For a leftist party to represent "the working class" they have a vested interest in keeping the "working class" as large as possible and not getting ideas above their station. The proles should know their place, no Kulaks here, comrade,



> removing corporate subsidies



Are you kidding? The Left on both sides of the Atlantic is ALL ABOUT corporate subsidies. In Europe, those subsidies are paid particularly to loss-making primary industries whose employees tend to vote Socialist. See: France (agriculture) and Germany (mining, where the state subsidy for each miner works out at about three times their annual wages, it would be cheaper just to send them home on double pay). In the US, it's through pork-barrel spending and bloated government (especially military) contracts.

In addition, there is an effective subsidy to large corporations in the West because they can cope with regulations better than small companies. Mandatory diversity officers and labrynthine pension and tax regulations are no problem to megacorps with HR, Finance and Legal departments, but a real struggle for two guys trying to run a small auto garage. In France, taking on an employee is so difficult in terms of mandatory pension contributions, working time regulations, Union registration and the fact that you essentially can't fire anyone once you hire them, that it is contributing to unemployment because small businesses can't afford to take on staff. Any attempt to relax these regulations of course leads to strikes, riots etc. that screw over the country's youth by condemning them to either working for a massive, subsidied corporation, the government, or benefits.


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## Mrs Paul (Dec 10, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> It was started by fedora-tier YouTube skeptics, if I remember correctly. But it was started in response to conservapedia (mainly its hilariously unscientific articles on creationism and such), so I guess you could say it was doomed from the start.



Its science articles are still decent, at least (like debunking medical woo and and shit like that).  The political stuff, I try to avoid.


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## ApatheticViewer (Dec 11, 2019)

As someone who's philosophically on the Left but still appreciates Right Wing faggotry let me just say.. being the bad guy is just cooler. Fuck social programs, fuck the immigrants, fuck women's rights.

I want an ethno state where I'm in charge and I'm allowed to beat people in the streets. I want my own SS uniform. Fuck everyone. I want the US to enslave the world with military strength.

So there ya go. The left is correct but at a primal destructive sadistic way Far Right rhetoric might be appealing.

That's the best argument anyone here could make.


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## Hitagi Senjougahara (Dec 11, 2019)

ApatheticViewer said:


> As someone who's philosophically on the Left but still appreciates Right Wing facism let me just say.. being the bad guy is just cooler. Fuck social programs, fuck the immigrants, fuck women's rights.
> 
> I want an ethno state where I'm in charge and I'm allowed to beat people in the streets. I want my own SS uniform. Fuck everyone. I want the US to enslave the world with military strength.
> 
> ...



Tho it's funny how the National Socialist German Workers' Party of Germany didn't see themselves neither as left-winged or right-winged but declared themselves to be spectral-syncretic.

And to answer OP's question, be whatever the fuck you want. Unless you're a politician who's aiming to join a political party and get into government it honestly doesn't matter what idiology you support.


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## Frostnipped Todger (Dec 14, 2019)

I'm late to this discussion, but I would ask: what kind of "leftist" are you? I consider myself on the left, but I describe it as "old fashioned left", because I still hold the beliefs that I did as a younger man, and I came of age in the early 90s. 
I support free speech, anti-globalism (because globalisation screws over the working class), not judging people by their ethnicity (yes, there are broad differences across racial groups, but how many people will you ever know that it will affect you?), and oppose religious fundamentalism. These were all left wing values back in the day. The modern "white people are born racist", "you aren't allowed to say that", "special rights for X group", "islam is unquestionable" leftist thought isn't something that I understand (I skipped out on politics for 15 years, and everyone apparently went crazy in the meantime).


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## Rafal Gan Ganowicz (Dec 26, 2019)

Because  when the Leftists achieve what they've Laboured (see what I did there?) so diligently for, and Western civilization has fallen,  your islamist pet hyenas will turn on their leftist useful idiots and denegenerates and faggots who enabled will be stoned to death in stadiums or fired off of minarets .


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## Fools Idol (Dec 26, 2019)

Because a persons political opinions are typically more complex than just "Left or Right" and you do yourself a disservice by labelling yourself.


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## The Curmudgeon (Dec 26, 2019)

I used to be a leftist. Why am I not one anymore? Witnessing how reality contradicted my ideology was very disillusioning. I learned the hard way that reality doesn't have any type of ideological bias. Reality is more complicated than any ideologues care to admit.


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## HumanHive (Dec 26, 2019)

You shouldn't be an "ist" at all. No policy or ideology is universally applicable or the final solution for all time, and you shouldn't seek to "export the revolution" for the sake of some global utopia. Utopia is impossible, and goes against both the finite nature of the universe and human nature, which is intended to be always in conflict with itself for the purpose of individual and collective advancement. Person A builds something, person B tries to tear it down or think up a method to do so. Castles, nations, companies, ideologies. All are going to be eaten away at by the dissatisfied and oppertunistic. It's a "working as intended" part of humanity, and doesn't need fixing.

If you wish to improve a given aspect of human life, that's fine. But remember policies should fit circumstances, and when they don't work there's always a good reason why. And likewise a good reason why current policies were put in place. Fuedalism, for example, was the best system a post-Roman world could manage and was quite stable. If you were to go back in time and try to install democratic government, it'd utterly fail. Democracy, capitalism, and socialism were seen as "more advanced" systems by Marx, but his error was and still is that there is no "more evolved" in evolution. Everything is as circumstances permit. There is no "next stage of progress", only "next set of circumstances to adapt to". And this is what most "ists" never figure out.


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## Terrorist (Dec 27, 2019)

Here’s another one for you guys: Why shouldn’t I be a fascist?

Limited government and democracy were maybe decent ideas in theory, but they created a power vacuum that our enemies used to throttle us. We shouldn’t tie our own hands while getting throttled, in my opinion. Power must be met with greater power.

When the west rejected tradition for liberty, it started dying soon after. Coincidence?


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## MrJokerRager (Dec 27, 2019)

Why did leftists abandon gun rights for appeasing the neoliberals and old hippy cat ladies. The immigrants and the soymen came way later.

Also they keep using phrases like rightoids, chuds and I guess the hatred is mutual between leftists and rightist.


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## Flea Man Marbles (Dec 27, 2019)

For the same reason you shouldn't be right wing, centrist, or any other ideology - it's an inaccurate, limiting label. Subscribing to any political philosophy is adhering to guidelines that someone else has defined. And in today's clown world people hide behind labels; I've seen supposed 'right wing' people do supposedly leftist things, and vice versa. There's plenty other ways to see the world and the left/right dichotomy doesn't encompass even .01% of all the possibilities.
Humans are inherently drawn to labels and icons but that's the lazy way of thinking. Do the hard thing, fire up some neurons, and come up with your own conclusions and ideals about what's going on in the world and what you'd like to do about it. The label is just an unnecessary barrier between free thought and action.
Plus people get so damn pissed when they can't fit you into a neat little box.


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## FunPosting101 (Dec 29, 2019)

In the USA, the only electable left-wing party wants to put mentally ill men wearing dresses into your kids classroom, the left that was for labor unions, workers rights, more affordable health care, environmental protections, etc, is either dead, or dying.


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Dec 30, 2019)

Your average left-wing "worker's party" is fucking dead and buried, because most left-wing parties realized they could flood their countries with immigrants with high birth rates, and then pander to the immigrants and give them free shit for much easier votes. So voting for one is frankly quite stupid, unless you yourself are an immigrant.


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