# Have we always lived in clownworld?



## Randall Fragg (Apr 9, 2021)

I have a proposal to make. 
Look at the news and you'll see see evidence that we are living in Clownworld. A world where every bizarre, fucked up meme is slowly coming true. 
Some people point to the beginning of Clownworld as 2016. That seems to be the point where everything really started going wrong. However, I have another suggestion. 
We've always been in Clownworld. We just didn't noticed it until recently. 
Take a brief look into historical events over the last few hundred years and you find some really fucking stupid shit. 
For example:

The War of Jenkins Ear, a major conflict between England and Spain that started in 1739, where the excuse was that a British captain got his ear cut off in 1731. 
The War of the Golden Stool, a conflict between the Ashanti people and the British, which started because a colonial administrator wanted to sit on the Ashanti's magic chair. 
The Tokyo War Crimes trial, in which one of the defendants, Shumei Okawa, arrived dressed in pajamas and slapped Hideki Tojo's head. There is video footage of this. 
The fact that one of the bloodiest wars in human history was started by a guy claiming to be Jesus's brother. 
Pretty much everything about World War 1, from the murder of Archduke Ferdinand being due to the driver fucking up, to the 12 battles of the Isonzo, to Germany using a British-held telegram cable to try to get the (civil war ravaged) Mexico to attack the United States because they might join the war (and then go 'yeah, come at me bro' when it got leaked). 
Tulip Mania. An economic bubble caused by fucking Tulips. 
We've always been living in Clownworld. It's just that only recently have we had the technology to archive and disseminate the stupidity. In previous ages stupid shit would be written out or downplayed, because it wasn't 'dignified'.


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## BScCollateral (Apr 9, 2021)

The stupid of the past is forgotten, as will the stupid of the present.


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## Citizen Lain (Apr 9, 2021)

> Have we always been living in clown world?


Yes. It's just gotten even clownier as time's gone on.


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## ClownBrew (Apr 9, 2021)

As a non-millennial (and I thank the gods for it daily) I've seen both the  old world and the new. I can tell you firsthand that Clown World began around 1990. Came on gradually but grew worse and worse with each passing year.The world was a far-- and I mean FAR-- saner and happier place in every way before that decade reared its ugly head.

I could rant about this subject all night but will spare you the powerlevelling.


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## Odnovo (Apr 9, 2021)

ClownBrew said:


> As a non-millennial (and I thank the gods for it daily) I've seen both the  old world and the new. I can tell you firsthand that Clown World began around 1990. Came on gradually but grew worse and worse with each passing year.The world was a far-- and I mean FAR-- saner and happier place in every way before that decade reared its ugly head.
> 
> I could rant about this subject all night but will spare you the powerlevelling.


No, go ahead. It would be interesting to hear about it. This is interesting to me because I'm old enough to remember 1990, albeit barely.


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## The Last Stand (Apr 9, 2021)

Humans are predictably unpredictable.


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## PaleTay (Apr 9, 2021)

I noticed around 2014 is when women started to go completely clown world, a lot of guys my age have commented on that irl. That seems to coincide with the start of the "everything in games and media is sexist" movement becoming mainstream and the Tumblrisms bleeding out into the world.


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## ArnoldPalmer (Apr 10, 2021)

That's both true and untrue. Crazy shit has happened in the past, but we're about to near-literally stupid ourselves to extinction. Current Year Clown World isn't just "Oh look this country went to war with a bunch of giant birds and lost". It's an attempt at inverting an entire hemisphere's culture, value systems, and way of life into a near-complete generation of poisoned from birth, dysgenic, Low-T mutants who are rightfully ashamed to exist and likely will not breed due to all of the self-loathing, or cock-cutting. I still stand by the common sentiment that Idiocracy was just a documentary from the future, but that future came much sooner than anticipated.

Combine that with all of the technology we have, and all of the tech we have to look forward to, and you realize that there was always somewhere on earth to run, until now. There's no escaping the lunacy. It's all over every format of media, in the public dialogue, people don't shut the fuck up about it ever. Even innawoods isn't going to save you from the technology, now that SpaceX alone has enough satellites in orbit to have a real-time map of the entire globe at once. We're fucking _boned_, man. It would take the deaths of billions and the loss of decades of technology to recover from what our careless hands have wrought.

Wars have started over one stupid thing, but they generally aren't caused simply because of that one stupid thing. It takes a decent push to get a whole group of people to start killing another group of people, and that usually involves a great deal of time spent with a seething hatred of the other. WWI started because of a sandwich, but that's only tangentially true. Due to all of the country and world-scope events at play, something like WWI would have been almost destined to happen. My point is, crazy shit has always happened, but absolutely nothing that's ever happened on the face of the planet quite compares to this inescapable globohomonculus hell-realm we have created for ourselves. War isn't as bad as this, especially from the angle of humanity's dignity.


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## Yinci (Apr 10, 2021)

Yeah Clown World Always


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## L50LasPak (Apr 10, 2021)

I agree with this mostly but there's a caveat. The post-WW2 period and subsequent Cold war saw a reduction in the general craziness that was going on because things were generally more stable. Of course, there are plenty of Clownwolrd-worthy events that took place during the Cold War, but they were fewer and far between. Peace lulled us into a false sense of security for sixty years, and now that things are destabilizing Clownworld is back in full force.


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## Lemmingwise (Apr 10, 2021)

Randall Fragg said:


> The War of Jenkins Ear, a major conflict between England and Spain that started in 1739, where the excuse was that a British captain got his ear cut off in 1731.
> The War of the Golden Stool, a conflict between the Ashanti people and the British, which started because a colonial administrator wanted to sit on the Ashanti's magic chair.
> The Tokyo War Crimes trial, in which one of the defendants, Shumei Okawa, arrived dressed in pajamas and slapped Hideki Tojo's head. There is video footage of this.
> The fact that one of the bloodiest wars in human history was started by a guy claiming to be Jesus's brother.
> ...



These examples aren't that convincing. Some wars have poor justifications, just like some fights between people have poor justifications. You can't just hit your brother in the head and tell your parents "I wanted to hit him" or "he had a toy that I wanted to play with." You need something like "He took it out of my hands first!"

People lying is not really indicative of clown world in the way people are asked to accept vaccine passports and such, while also remaining afraid (and angry) towards unvaccinated people (then what is the vaccine protecting you from!?). 

Or that we need to help women, because men and women are the same and equal.

Besides, the clown world meme has always been a cope anyways; an attempt to laugh and deal with the horror that is descending on us.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Apr 11, 2021)

_"Frivolity is the frequent companion of pessimism. Let us eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. The resemblance between various declining nations in this respect is truly surprising. The Roman mob, we have seen, demanded free meals and public games. Gladiatorial shows, chariot races and athletic events were their passion. In the Byzantine Empire the rivalries of the Greens and the Blues in the hippodrome attained the importance of a major crisis. Judging by the time and space allotted to them in the Press and television, football and baseball are the activities which today chiefly interest the public in Britain and the United States respectively. The heroes of declining nations are always the same—the athlete, the singer or the actor. The word ‘celebrity’ today is used to designate a comedian or a football player, not a statesman, a general, or a literary genius." _
- The fate of empires and Search for survival; John Bagot Glubb Sir, 1897-1986.

Its not that silly things may or might happen.  Its that silly things will be predicted, mocked, and then happen with a surety over and over again with increasing speed.  Clownworld is noticing the slippery slope and praising it, and mocking those who go down it gleefully expecting not to fly off the cliff at the end.



Randall Fragg said:


> The War of Jenkins Ear, a major conflict between England and Spain that started in 1739, where the excuse was that a British captain got his ear cut off in 1731.
> The War of the Golden Stool, a conflict between the Ashanti people and the British, which started because a colonial administrator wanted to sit on the Ashanti's magic chair.
> The Tokyo War Crimes trial, in which one of the defendants, Shumei Okawa, arrived dressed in pajamas and slapped Hideki Tojo's head. There is video footage of this.
> The fact that one of the bloodiest wars in human history was started by a guy claiming to be Jesus's brother.
> ...


None of these were predicted, mocked as just the moronic thing we would do, and then done before us as if prophesied.

Most of these were honor driven and so completely silly to the modern honorless western man, but hardly silly to the colonial gentleman who thought he was tough shit and others should recognize it.  Maybe tulip mania, but Gamestonk will get to the moon right?  People have always gotten rich doing stupid novel shit and afterwards people cargo-cult the shit out of it and sometimes lightning strikes again and again in the same spot.

I think things like BLM Rioters Awarded Nobel Peace Prize and then Black Lives Matter movement nominated for Nobel peace prize is unique to our era (which some call the 'Spenglerian Winter' period), we used to stupidly misunderstand the world but today we stupidly misunderstand ourselves.


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## Inspector Rex (Apr 15, 2021)

Clown world is a spectrum, as dumb shit have always existed and will always exist   

However, we've started go into "red territory" in 2012-2016, and I blame a widespread adoption of political and corporate bots.
In 2014 I've witnessed Russian internet going in complete retard mode during Crimea/Ukraine events, when posting a cat gif could lead to 100s of people wishing genocide to each other out of nowhere.
In 2016-2017 I've witnessed the same shit on global scale during Trump's campaign and Brexit.

Politicians and big businesses noticed an effect the internet has on real world and started to abuse it, and it's going to get worse. Nobody will ever convince me that *any* political shitshows on social media websites like reddit aren't artificial.


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## TFT-A9 (Apr 15, 2021)

Randall Fragg said:


> We've always been living in Clownworld. It's just that only recently have we had the technology to archive and disseminate the stupidity. In previous ages stupid shit would be written out or downplayed, because it wasn't 'dignified'.


I've actually been thinking about the effects of the Internet and mass media on how people take in and process information, in what quantities, and the knock-on effects of this.

I'm torn because I'm someone who thinks knowing the truth is always better than not knowing the truth, but the transmission of information does not necessarily factor veracity into anything and what I'm seeing emerge with people and just society in general reminds me of a child being barraged with tons of information, at least some of it conflicting, and proceeding to have the world's loudest tard-rage about it.


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## Scolopendra Dramatica (Apr 15, 2021)

My grandmother swore things have been going downhill since the 70's, she died in the early 2000's but I've yet to meet someone more based and clown pilled. I believe her. 

Once we passed the line where an average working man couldn't pay for a home for his family without help the great cuckoning started. The stranglehold on the historically sacred family unit started there and we've been spiralling since.

However it did get significantly more brazen in the nineties so I wouldn't necessarily disagree with anyone that thinks it really started there. It depends on how you define clown world I suppose.


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## Syaoran Li (Apr 15, 2021)

In retrospect, the malaise of Current Year started with the Great Recession and Obama here in America. 

Although it wasn't as obvious until after Occupy crashed and burned and the Woke Left became increasingly prevalent both online and in real life.


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## polyqueerandrosensual (Apr 15, 2021)

The 90s also had tons of niggerdom not previously seen, so it really did begin there. Rap and ghettoness became mainstream, faggots managed to outlive AIDS, degenerate weeb shit took over, and of course the internet began and we all know how that went.


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## Sweetpeaa (May 6, 2021)

After the recession. No financial certainty, no mental restraint. That's why people play the blame game more than ever, team up with all these retarded political movements and can no longer behave decently to each other. They should be ashamed of themselves but they can't because the behavior has become socially acceptable.


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## Blobby's Murder Knife (May 7, 2021)

Yes, imagine that Michigan and Ohio went to war at one point. In WWI there were generals that refused to believe modern weaponry changed the face of war.


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## DeadFish (May 7, 2021)

What you call clown world is you wittnessing a process as old as history it self.
The process is:
A bunch of crazy tards make up crazy tard bullshit
They gather enough power to force their bullshit to become "common sense"
Any one who isnt retarded, isnt crazy, isnt full of shit and has actual good sense gets labeled as crazy, full of shit and dumb.

The sane, honest, smart people get weeded out.
The genetic rejects gain power.

The result over time humanity gets sicker, dumber and more delusional.


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## TFT-A9 (May 7, 2021)

COCl₂ said:


> Yes, imagine that Michigan and Ohio went to war at one point. In WWI there were generals that refused to believe modern weaponry changed the face of war.


French generals, who would order bayonet charges at German machine gun emplacements.  The fact that some French soldiers apparently did this proves that they had more balls than brains.


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## Blobby's Murder Knife (May 7, 2021)

TFT-A9 said:


> French generals, who would order bayonet charges at German machine gun emplacements.  The fact that some French soldiers apparently did this proves that they had more balls than brains.


It was so massively fucked from the Battle of Liege on down.


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## TFT-A9 (May 7, 2021)

COCl₂ said:


> It was so massively fucked from the Battle of Liege on down.


Also the obsession with _cran_ and wearing those red pants.  The French really, REALLY wanted to look like the biggest hardasses on the continent.


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## Billy Beer (May 7, 2021)

I thought that the order to fix bayonettes and walk across no man's land, was to waste the ammo of the Germans?


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## Taylor Swift's Ghostwrite (May 7, 2021)

Real answer: as boomer as it sounds, the reason things seem so crazy now is social media has both allowed people to reach each other easily and block one another. It creates niche echo chambers, as well as groups that normally couldn't organize because of distance.

It also lets us see things quicker, which of course is going to cause faster reactions with less thought behind them.

Conspiracy answer: 2013 (I think, didn't bother checking the year again so I might be remembering wrong) the Higgs-boson particle was observed and quantum fuckery happened. We crossed into a different timeline.


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## literal autist (May 7, 2021)

Sometimes I feel like the conspiracy theorists were right and the world really did end in 2012. Things really went full circus mode in 2017 or so, but 2012 was when the seeds were planted.


COCl₂ said:


> It was so massively fucked from the Battle of Liege on down.


Not related to anything but the album in your profile pic is good. You ever listen to Kekht Arakh?


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## Captain Wetbeard (Aug 29, 2021)

Clownworld is the realization of Poe's Law, it's a product of post-modernism.
Irony has poisoned sincerity, and it has been common practice to LARP as one's political opponents to strawman them for quite some time.
The problem is that people see the strawman and agree with it, adopting the strawman's arguments and turning parody into reality.
This is one of the major causes of all political groups becoming nonsensical and radicalizing at an exponentially increasing speed.
Poe's Law is now in effect, parody and sincerity are indistinguishable and there really isn't any way back from that.
TLDR: Irony has doomed us all to clownworld.


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## PaleTay (Aug 29, 2021)

It's interesting, if you go back even a few years to 2017/2018 you'll see people like JR Smith get a lot of hate for killing his friend driving drunk and continuing to drive drunk/recklessly whenever he was brought up, part of it is censorship but there's a ideological shift that happened in the past few years that judges people who are offensive far more harshly than criminals.


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## ReturnedHermit (Aug 29, 2021)

Ooh a Necro thread. I'll avoid quoting.

ArnoldPalmer - good post, if a little defeatist. Captures that dejected, yet thoughtful, Iraq war vet angle in a pleasant way.
Haim - nearly writes my posts for me, but in this case I think the point was lost in the prose. Definitely "gets" clown world.
TFT-A9 - The lvl 1 rookie with their whole life ahead of them.
Taylor Swift's Ghostwriter - I expected more of a blogpost.
Wetbeard - Based, and DFW-pilled. I envy how concise you were able to make all that. A little 'bottom-up' for my tastes, but maybe that is the sign of a fresh academic.

Clown world is:
1.) Infinite Jest, if you want a masterclass.
2.) Trying and failing (for years) to give a bathroom mirror pep talk before work.
3.) The recent Jerma985 Sims performance piece. Highly recommend.
4. The opposite of To Kill A Mockingbird, but playing out every day.
5. The individual being made part of something without a way to make it a part of themself.
And so on, and so on.

To compare historical events to Clownworld is a little dishonest, if you ask me. Maybe Randall is just coping, maybe they're just testing a hypothesis. To take a list of history's "Don't Make These Mistakes Again" level events and compare that list to today's events generally-speaking for the purpose of saying: nothing much has changed, is obviously flawed. The virtual world is a safe haven for countless Tulip Crises, each engineered and modeled to data-driven perfection. 

With regard to WW1, Taiping Rebellion, and the other wars mentioned I don't see the comparison. Where is the blood being spilled these days? How does an industrial revolution resulting in the rapid obsolescence of 50-90% of your population's primary skill-set compare? The Taiping situation was a series of rebellions against an ancient moral order during a period they themselves refer to as the Century of Humiliation. I think we are well on our way to a similar situation here in the west. Clownworld might be the individual's experience of a global Century of Humiliation, but that's not the point you've made. If a guy wants to call himself a divine being and propose solutions to present problems, I'm willing to listen so long as they have good ideas. Having faith and believing in a cause to the point you would sacrifice your life for it (or do genocide for it) is not Clownworld at all. 

We have always been flawed. The problem with the world today is we see our flaws in excruciating detail, but the solutions remain as difficult as ever to reach. In some cases, we are compelled to celebrate a flaw and told that it is the best solution. In other cases, the solution is forbidden for fear of doing harm. We have always been flawed, but we have always drawn inspiration and strength from the journeys we experience to correct those flaws. Clownworld is the denial of this process, and we all wonder why that is. The harder you look, the more obvious it becomes that there is no good reason. In fact, the only reasons I've ever found were completely fucking retarded.


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## Tree (Aug 30, 2021)

ReturnedHermit said:


> Ooh a Necro thread. I'll avoid quoting.
> 
> ArnoldPalmer - good post, if a little defeatist. Captures that dejected, yet thoughtful, Iraq war vet angle in a pleasant way.
> Haim - nearly writes my posts for me, but in this case I think the point was lost in the prose. Definitely "gets" clown world.
> ...



It only takes a willingness to consider the taboo and a little digging to start finding (((reasons))). I don't mean to sound like all the problems of the world are caused by them, but clown world in particular is explained by intentional disintegration of cultural sensibilities, individualization, and commodification which, even if not explicitly coordinated, would not be taking place at the pace or scale it has if it weren't for the power this natural outsider was able to command towards their own self interest in this last century. I think they are also deliberately malicious, but that isn't even necessary to accept to see that the natural incentives of rootless cosmopolitans align with what has induced clown world.


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## Troonologist PhD (Aug 30, 2021)

Tree said:


> It only takes a willingness to consider the taboo and a little digging to start finding (((reasons))). I don't mean to sound like all the problems of the world are caused by them, but clown world in particular is explained by intentional disintegration of cultural sensibilities, individualization, and commodification which, even if not explicitly coordinated, would not be taking place at the pace or scale it has if it weren't for the power this natural outsider was able to command towards their own self interest in this last century. I think cultural organisms, and individuals in them, are also deliberately malicious, but that isn't even necessary to accept to see that the natural incentives of rootless cosmopolitans align with what has induced clown world.


Something to remember is that (((They))) are not the only rootless cosmopolitans that crush us underfoot and they never have been. The upper crust has always been a nation onto itself. Our greatest enemies are our own ruling class and the insects who would be overseers. Before they were limited by the fear of being damned to Hellfire and lack of technology but now there's literally nothing in this world stopping them from doing whatever they want.


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## Strong Tomato (Aug 30, 2021)

I blame Gamergate.


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## PetrifiedTom (Aug 30, 2021)

Since butlers stopped ironing the newspaper it went downhill.


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## Ishtar (Aug 30, 2021)

I honestly wonder if mass consumerism combined with the decline of any sort of stable rooted identity has led to people feeling empty and confused and thus embracing all sorts of madness to give their own existence meaning.

To put it in more personalized terms, everyone asks “who am I?” “To whom or what do I belong?”

Well the church is declining, local identity is gone, provincial identity is gone and national identity is not strong among the most connected.

So people need some sort of consumer identity-whether that be a fandom, or even a political party(mass party politics of the early 20th century is no more).

Transgenderism I think in particular comes from a lack of a stable identity-and the ongoing dissolution of stable gender roles.*

*This might sound a little SJW but I do think that high standards of masculinity, and feminity-the James Bond/Arnold Schwarzenegger/Gigachad meme and the Kim Kardashian/Super model/10 out of ten sexy ideal is somewhat responsible. Because most people will never measure up to these media promoted ideals. They find themselves miserable and depressed and so can no longer identity as a sex that simply doesn’t reflect what society tells them what that means that they themselves don’t reflect.

An autistic nerdy guy who knows he will never be some sort of Casanova chad, sees messaging about how women can just snake confidently through life, while he stumbles and struggles to keep a job, maintain the barest social connections, and pay the bills on time. and asks implicitly or explicitly “maybe I’m just not a man, maybe, maybe I could have a happier more fulfilling life if I chopped my dick off”, or a woman who will never get the attention or respect of her male peers, sees the success and higher accolades men get, and says to herself “I’m never going to be an ideal woman, I don’t measure up to what E News and grocery store magazines are telling me women should be, maybe I should be a man, I played soccer in school and like the outdoors, so maybe I’m not really a woman”.

In that sense, tranny ism is a natural byproduct of social expectations that are not driven by local communitarian support or benediction but by atomization that interacts with media imagery and concepts. In a healthier traditional society-men and women have set roles, that they can see in their day to day lives, so they aren’t left with this crippling anxiety about their identity.**

**apologize for the ramble, that’s just my personal theory on troonism.

As for other aspects of clone world, a lot of it comes down to the fact that modern or postmodern society is as maddening as it is comfortable. People stew away online or in their own minds, losing any sense of what is real or healthy. Yet their base needs are met, food, shelter, and the like-so questions of identity and one’s value and meaning become unshakable.

Atomization, too much comfort, and a breakdown of what “should be” is responsible for a lot of it. That said, I think NGOs, academic and media activism, and also conscious government policy(directed by (((powers))) behind the scenes) also are crucial for the current state of the world today.


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## StarDreamer2002 (Aug 30, 2021)

Stupid people who do stupid things have always existed and never ever has something stopped them from becoming rich, famous and powerful. It's just that due to advances in information technology we get a better view of how dumb they are and due to nostalgia we view the past through rose-tinted glasses.

Though arguably it became much much worse during the past decade. I mean, like, 15 years ago, they'd laughed you out if you'd say something like e/em/erself are <<your pronouns>> and White people voicing Black videogame characters is racist while a man saying he's a woman is like totally legit.


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## DerKryptid (Aug 30, 2021)

Clownworld started when Adam thought pussy was better than eternal salvation


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## Ishtar (Aug 30, 2021)

DerKryptid said:


> Clownworld started when Adam thought pussy was better than eternal salvation


To be fair, unlike most of humanity he genuinely didn’t know any better,


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## Dom Cruise (Aug 30, 2021)

Taylor Swift's Ghostwrite said:


> Real answer: as boomer as it sounds, the reason things seem so crazy now is social media has both allowed people to reach each other easily and block one another. It creates niche echo chambers, as well as groups that normally couldn't organize because of distance.
> 
> It also lets us see things quicker, which of course is going to cause faster reactions with less thought behind them.
> 
> Conspiracy answer: 2013 (I think, didn't bother checking the year again so I might be remembering wrong) the Higgs-boson particle was observed and quantum fuckery happened. We crossed into a different timeline.





literal autist said:


> Sometimes I feel like the conspiracy theorists were right and the world really did end in 2012. Things really went full circus mode in 2017 or so, but 2012 was when the seeds were planted.
> 
> Not related to anything but the album in your profile pic is good. You ever listen to Kekht Arakh?


I take this shit very seriously, the whole Mayan 2012, Higgs Boson type thing.

It makes me uncomfortable, but it seems like too much to be a coincidence, it genuinely seems like something screwy happened with reality, how else do you explain just how bizarre people are these days?

And how do you explain that the date 2012 was significant to the Mayans and it does seem like 2012 is when all this started? It beggars belief to think it's just a coincidence, but what does it all really mean?

When you think back to the past it really does seem like it's an entirely different universe, all I know is the world of 2015 and below was a very different place and I miss it.


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## cummytummies (Aug 30, 2021)

For most of history people have lived in homogenous societies with shared common values. Maybe metropolitan city centers have always been clown world, that would make sense, but opening the floodgates of cultural exchange (i.e. blasting everyone with American propaganda for a century) has definitely made the world clownier for everybody.


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 1, 2021)

We've always lived in times of mass psychosis and collective stupidity but the forms change with the times.

"Current Year" is just a particularly harsh form of it because modern technology makes it more up front, more apparent, and louder than ever.

The fact that our corporate overlords benefit from this zeitgeist since it keeps us plebs divided and at each others throats does not help matters either.


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## Gender: Xenomorph (Sep 1, 2021)

Technology has advanced, but your average human is really no smarter than your average human 100 000 years ago.


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## Uncle Buck (Sep 1, 2021)

Shamash said:


> To be fair, unlike most of humanity he genuinely didn’t know any better,



But he _should _have.

According to that mythology,  the existence of "god" was a demonstrable and indisputable fact to Adam, who literally spoke to/with him.

It wasn't that Adam read the whole spiel about the tree of "life" from an ancient book that had been passed down from time indefinite and subject to thousands of years of study, scrutiny, commentary and debate among people who had never actually seen any tangible evidence that the miraculous claims contained therein were actually true; no, Adam heard it right from "god's" own lips.

Funny how in the bible there's no mention of him thinking to himself, "You know, I'm not sure this dingy broad knows the score; maybe I should check in with the Big Guy on this"...

And let's not let Eve off the hook either... _She _was so gullible she got bamboozled by a talking snake... "Is it _really _so...?"; and she had no thought that _she _should have a one-on-one with "god" herself before acting on the talking snake's advice?


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## Troonologist PhD (Sep 1, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> We've always lived in times of mass psychosis and collective stupidity but the forms change with the times.
> 
> "Current Year" is just a *particularly harsh form of it because modern technology* makes it more up front, more apparent, and louder than ever.
> 
> The fact that our corporate overlords benefit from this zeitgeist since it keeps us plebs divided and at each others throats does not help matters either.


Technology and the modern helicopter parent state also stops people from having to face the consequences of their actions.


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## Ishtar (Sep 2, 2021)

I'd say regardless of your religious or political beliefs-we are living in an age of degeneration. What was is less than what came before, even degeneracy a century ago was of a higher quality, communists were tougher, feminists were as grating but willing to suffer hunger strikes, even rap in the eighties and nineties is better than rap today. 

Basically everything declines, and even elements of decline(i.e. feminism and Negro music) can themselves degenerate to lower states. 

Entropy seems to be inescapable, and we are heading to something terrible. 

I can't say when it wrong, but its clear something in our civilization is fundamentally broken. Some say the Enlightenment and its after effects, some say the Reformation, some blame Christianity itself, others still blame Plato and Socrates, and some blame hazy failings in the far mists of time. 

Whatever it may be, clearly this world is not _right. _It is fundamentally _wrong, _and should not be.


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## Lemmingwise (Sep 2, 2021)

You don't live in clown world until you see the makeup.


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## Ishtar (Sep 2, 2021)

TBH, we seem to be living in Hellworld now. It’s the age of pedos, faggotry unbound, and narcissistic stupidity without any social, religious, or moral restraint on people’s deviancy or animal urges

I can only pray that God destroys America, in fire and sulfur.

The people absolutely deserve to burn forever.


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## ReturnedHermit (Sep 2, 2021)

Shamash said:


> TBH, we seem to be living in Hellworld now. It’s the age of pedos, faggotry unbound, and narcissistic stupidity without any social, religious, or moral restraint on people’s deviancy or animal urges
> 
> I can only pray that God destroys America, in fire and sulfur.
> 
> The people absolutely deserve to burn forever.


People who say they can't escape clownworld or hellworld all tend to have one thing in common: they are incredibly online. If we take into account that people generally have free will online (which can be limited or subverted based on the person's age, devices used, ISP regulations, susceptibility to advertising or group-think, and many other things) it isn't hard to see a pattern. The people who "see" Clownworld and post at length about it are: roughly 80% male, aged 15-35 for the most part, lack the resources (monetary or social) needed to fully insulate themselves from despair, and are either generally low in agreeableness or specifically mistrusting of authority or institutions. Lists are my autistic crutch, so I will try to summarize. This group of people are loners with a lot of free-time living like slaves. Income doesn't really determine whether or not you are a slave. I have a friend making 160k who will barely make bills due to an expensive family and other factors I will not specify. His free will has become conditional to the point of near non-existence.

You can quickly become a slave when you attach too much of your power and money to obligations, especially when combined with that "unshakable commitment to principle" so many "very manly, very good men" tend to have. Consider these two phrases: "I will not fail to provide for my family" and "I will not fail to provide for myself". Now, apply that set of unshakable principles to each. The resulting sets of permissible activities are very different, aren't they? When those principles were at their most effective, I think a man's family was his property. Their success was his own. Nowadays, that's clearly not the case. You can sacrifice everything for your family and get no reward. You can also sacrifice others (complete strangers or family) for their own success and get no punishment.

So now we are at that crucial decision-making moment of "Is it the principles that have failed or is it the system in which those principles are applied?" Instead of always assuming it is the system that is Clownworld causing your principles to fail, try something else. I'm not recommending that you go full sigma, but maybe try different principles that are better adapted to the system. Recognize that absolutism is difficult to pull off and no longer an efficient way of organizing your entire life. Some things have absolute qualities, some absolutes are extremely important, but your brain is big enough to handle a reality in which not all things are absolute. Dumb cattle might even start to outperform you if you make enough bad assumptions.

Applying moral absolutist principles to the internet while actively obliging yourself to find examples of situations that violate your principles as a method of reinforcement is circular reasoning. If your principles aren't working, don't think you can redeem them by proxy, pun intended. You are living your own life and need to believe in things that work for you, not living in misery holding out hope that the stars will someday align such that you can finally just go with the flow. Loads of people are just going with the flow and doing just fine, they also significantly outnumber you. If you want to resolve this situation, you're probably going to end up with one of the 2 big bads: absolute control over the 'other' (turbo strawman commie) or absolute violence against the 'other' (turbo strawman fascism). Ideally, you would be able to convince people that you're right, but *let's face reality here: You're probably not the sort of person that is good at that sort of thing* (a la "waiting for Hitler 2.0," the return of Christ, the beta uprising, or simply The Cult of Moldbug).

What are some other options? Well, you could always band together in a tight-knit identity-based enclave that meticulously subverts your opposition while pushing a consistent agenda generation after generation, but that might hit too close to home for the pol crowd. How about a halal alternative to your kosher meddling? Reside in only the toughest climates where resources are scarce and experience genocidal foreign intervention every decade or two, proving yourself daily against the world's most powerful armies and nothing but the glory of the afterlife to look forward to. Sure, you can do that, but if the point is that Clownworld makes you suffer, I don't think that solution really mitigates suffering. Sure, there is the "internet islam" crowd, but they're just paid influencers when you get down to it. Suppose you go for the more traditional approach and try organizing. You will quickly find that it isn't easy, that many of the people attracted to your movement are uncomfortable (or dangerous) to be around, and you're always playing "who's the fed?" which gets old after a while. Before you even get started, remember that your enemies are most concerned with this sort of activity, and have made it a priority to see you fail. Not only that, but you will soon realize that the talent pool and overall numbers aren't quite what you had originally hoped. Your coordinated activities and far-reaching searches for quality members will begin to take on a *gasp* gang-like appearance.

That's sort of what it is, right? Any group of people who are miserably living, yet miserably outnumbered, will be led down the path of gang (or tribal) organization. So you think up some branding ideas. You also realize how fortunate the hispanic and black communities are. Imagine never having to advocate for "White" anything, just call yourselves the Crips or Bloods or Latin Kings. Come to think of it, the Yakuza operates with near impunity and controls supposedly billions of dollars through their financial institutions. Why can't westerners from white countries create effective gangs? Well, the paradoxical answer is that they create the most effective gangs. They're so good at it, in fact, they can force your parents to pay for institutions designed to cement their legitimacy via childhood indoctrination using bundled services we call Academic Education. To go back to principles for a moment, here's one: The best way to defeat a sociopath is to expose their nature to others. A gang concealing its nature will be referred to as an institution, agency, corporation, nonprofit, or maybe even just a group. Some are more gang-like than others, don't let your absolutism be exploited here, otherwise you are blind to an important truth.

*Silicon Valley Gang, Republican Gang, Democrat Gang, Woke Gang, Environmentalist Gang, etc etc etc. These gangs are so good at let's say "rival prevention" and have so much fucking money that the only way you beat them is by preventing interest from accumulating in their bank accounts. People figure that out and you have Crypto, GameStop stonks, cyber attacks, even some actions taken by antifa were motivated by a sort of blockbusting (its own convoluted 5 page story so please take my word on it), Cancel Culture, #MeToo, brand boycotts, and costly riots. Prior to covid, I would say that this was working and "we" were winning. How strange that covid consolidated wealth to an unprecedented degree, dumpstered small businesses, restricted people's movements, paved the way for fucking contact tracing, and has put bodily autonomy under fire in a way that makes the anti-abortion crowd salivate. If I hear another moron say that because the government is printing money like crazy that "we" are winning, I'll do a cartwheel. Its your money dumbass. The impact this has on "them" is minimal. They wanted a war and now they can't afford it. That's it, that's what you get out of the "government" losing. The enemy is MORE than the government. They have their own money and they have a hundred other ways to get more of your money aside from taxation. Cue Lucille's "Here's some money, go see a star war." *

If you want to be free from Clownworld, you have to weaken the gangs, maybe even defeat them in some cases, but assuming the necessity of "TOTAL VICTORY" is an absolutist trap. Some of these gangs do important things that make the world function, but most are just pretending. Believing that you can do anything at all to change the situation by calling people's attention to it or by doubling down on your own moral purity is like sitting in Plato's Cave telling the shadow puppet guy to show you a real dog. You're begging for a miracle at that point. *I genuinely want people, (especially salt of the earth internet people) to be happy, so here's what I consider to be the endpoint of the journey: give up on or reduce your daily intake of "noticing things," or change your principles such that you can start your own successful gang, or join one of the existing gangs, or drain the coffers of the gangs as an independent actor with remorseless cruelty, or accept that you are a moral masochist that just gets a dopamine kick out of calling attention to problems in a world full of problems. You can also mix and match these options to create a solution that is unique, you special little rebel, you. *

Response to Tree specifically on the JQ: I think that notion needs to be put to bed. The problems created for Americans specifically as a result of Jews are often in response to problems created by Islam or by the American elite. You can find Jews everywhere, in every country today, and they have been doing this for what 2500 years or so now. There is a long list of civilizations and tribes they have fucked over and a smaller list of people they have vanished from history entirely. I say all that knowing that it will seem as though I am downplaying their power and effectiveness if I go with the usual response of "Bro, its not just them man, why are you so obsessed bro." The thing is, if the colossal fuckup of WW2 hadn't given that particular gang a powerful, potentially eternal, tool for leveraging the emotions of people the world over- their power would be a fraction of what it is. Tens of millions of Christians died and they are mourned as "Soldiers of the Allied Powers" or "Victims of War" or simply "Heroes" in some cases. When that history was written it was mostly national in character, think of how many times you've heard the term "Dead Americans" used by those opposed to Iraq or Afghanistan. These dead people are not honored or valued by anyone in any real sense. My fore-fathers and me have fought in American wars for 5 generations and I can tell you personally that the sacrifices made by soldiers in generations past have little weight to them. Sure, Antifa tearing down monuments gets air time and sure, sometimes someone shows up to yell at them while they're doing it, and sure- loads of people online are outraged. If we apply a grading scale, the hall of cost is the A+ "remembrance" effort for maintaining a gang's operational impunity. Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, and the rest are C- at best. Be angry that your "team" fucked up in the past and did not preserve their history or make much of an attempt to capitalize on it for your sake. Be angry that the Boomers had shortsighted ambitions and no imagination. Be angry that no one listened to Patton and fought for a more glorious empire if you want. At the end of the day we must accept that they played the long game, won, and won big. Try to realize that whatever you are, it's probably younger than Judaism. They've just been 'in the game' for longer than almost anyone. If you want to beat them, start by assessing their capabilities. If you want to blame them for everything, consider that your ancestors "lost" to them while they were weaker and dealing with the sort of reputation the far-right currently has of being universally disdained. All I'm saying is, your work is cut out for you. Other people cause problems and fuck up, roughly 8/10 people are willing to exploit others for their own gain, and limiting your knowledge of human nature to such a narrow scope is going to result in the failure of even modest goals. Being a sore loser because you were born at the height of their power and dealt a shit sandwich of a life isn't an excuse to do nothing. Yes, they like to deal in drugs, porn, law, politics, accounting, and junk science/medicine. That doesn't mean they can't deflect these accusations by reminding you that they "discovered" relativity, cured polio, and invented the laser. A big win can last more than a lifetime. Taking full credit for your wins in a way that allows you bog down an enemy pursuing justice for your victims WORKS VERY WELL APPARENTLY. So, yeah this unfortunately returns to pathological altruism. Maybe white people should stop allowing themselves to be defined by this trait. Anyways this is going kind of off the rails. Yes, they punch above their numbers, yes they do fucked up things to goys (and scorched earth, nightmare-fuel things to their enemies), and are responsible for authoring and/or pushing present day degeneracy in many forms. To put it simply, they short shell human decency wherever possible and rig the game once they find an exploit. I have played online video games against 13 year olds and seen the same behavior, its not anything special. What is special is how long they have been able to do it and how successful they are at it. I read (or heard idk) a post by a Muslim years ago, something like: "If Jesus was truly the Messiah would he not have led his followers to drive out the Pharisees in all corners of the world?" which I shared with a Jew sometime later. He said that sounds like what people thought Hitler would do, but it worked out completely opposite to that and gave that knowing look + shit-eating-grin combo. Only recently did I realize that all conquered peoples have similar hopes and dreams, sustaining broken hearts by believing one day that their enemies will be gone. Even more recently I put together a picture of who has successfully un-conquered themselves across history, not exhaustive, but a serviceable resolution for my purposes. My conclusion on the matter is that they didn't post on internet forums, without exception. Defeat consumerism, its rotten to the core. Focusing on the defeat of those who are best at exploiting consumers is a little too "fighting the enemy on their turf" for my tastes. It is the backs of hardworking Americans holding up the system and that's no time for a fight. Far-Right (broadly speaking) influencers like to suggest that if we focus on fighting just the "jewish menace" we can continue to hold up the rest of the system perfectly intact. My response to that is: fuck off boomer, stop telling me how to win a fight you lost by making it more difficult. I'm not saying you're a boomer, but the entire mindset of "America would be perfect again... if it weren't for X" is just so utterly wrong. The truth is that the country never stopped being a colony and was designed by its founders to attract investors and cheap labor. It also happens to sit on vast mineral and resource wealth that is unparalleled across the globe. America, working as intended, is a plantation where workers attend to the property of rich foreigners and local nobility. The workers were originally paid in land since it costs nothing for the elite, now they are paid in $ which similarly costs nothing for the elite. Accumulation of wealth is discouraged. Should a group identity form around a certain location in such a way that it harms production, new immigrants are imported to disrupt the community while inflation and taxes siphon away savings. The market then stabilizes, the labor pool grows, then its back to business as usual. Have you ever had a fish tank? Introducing new fish can be hard with certain species. Angel fish in particular are recommended to be added together so that they can face each other on even footing, otherwise one would kill the other and in some cases both die. Adding them simultaneously permits for the creation of boundaries, territory. America is like that, but immigrants are added periodically to prevent small fish Americans from posing a threat to the elites. These new immigrants take low-skill jobs resulting in more accumulation of wealth, resulting in more elite power, resulting in more immigrants. The levers of control are built in and it has been chugging away like this for a long time. Only now, when the elite have made a few too many enemies and invited a few too many immigrants do we see the cracks. It was always fucked yet many still celebrate it as the best system humanity has ever created, boomers especially. All of this is made possible by exploiting the Christian principle of being neighborly. America may have been first settled by Christians, but its government was also designed to exploit them. 


_Sorry for the length of this post, its my first non-phonepost and I am procrastinating. The abundance of highly online people coming from different ideological backgrounds results in an unfortunate amount of bloat when attempting to account for the knee-jerk reactions I am familiar with. Long diatribes are not much better, but at least I can train robots to talk like me whenever the forum is scraped for conversational AI data. Whether you read or don't, I will live on forever in the Big Data. 

Also why are there some posts where the reply button isn't there?_


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