# When did normies become "woke"?



## Erich Honecker (Oct 22, 2021)

I can't pinpoint when it started. What I do remember is that around 2016, maybe even as late as 2017, it felt like SJWism (as it was called then) was a widely unpopular ideology. There were several memes against it which were reposted on Facebook, Twitter and Youtube to the point of being overplayed. Eg. The triggered feminist, "Did you just assume my gender?", "I identify as an Apache attack helicopter", "Making a joke in 2016" with the image being a guy dodging multiple lasers, various things restating there being only two genders, etc. Edgy humour in general also seemed to be making a resurgence at the time, after having waned somewhat in the early 10s.

All this coupled with the political events of that year seemed to lead a lot of people to proclaim that SJWism had lost, that the vast majority of normies were clearly against it, and that the true believers would simply recede into the background and seethe. There are a few threads and posts on this board from circa 2016 that seem to make arguments to that effect, that SJWism was dead and buried and would become irrelevant.

But none of that came to pass. Instead, the opposite happened. I personally know several people IRL who went as far as being outright Trump sympathisers (though not American), and who were absolutely the types to make edgy anti-trans and racially tinged jokes in 2016ish, but who have done something of an about-face and now renounce their "problematic" pasts. When I was still active on Twitter in 2020, there was also a wider trend of very left-wing progressive people who talked about how they used to be anti-SJWs, but look back on that period of their life as "cringe" and of course now embrace all the pro-trans and pro-BLM talking points. What was the widely mocked trend of SJWism in 2014-2017 became the all-pervasive suffocating culture of "woke" that exists now, and it's weird because I can't really identify when - or why - that shift took place.

On a deeper level, it's scary to look back on things that were popular just a few short years ago and think "yeah, that couldn't happen now". I remember the first beginnings of the current transgender movement being ridiculed across social media and in certain parts of the mainstream news around 2014. Now, we have news outlets and politicians alike pussyfooting around it and seeming scared to call the bullshit out even if you know they disagree. The most ridiculous are supposedly "Conservative" politicians who are now nominally pro-trans, that would have been utterly unthinkable even a few short years ago. And normies who used to scoff at the pronoun nonsense are now mass adopting the trend of putting their he/him and she/her pronouns into all their social media profiles. Just when did this stuff all become mainstreamed exactly, and how did it happen even despite of the right's supposed culture war "victories" of 2016?


----------



## Red Hood (Oct 22, 2021)

A lot of it's fear. Normies fear having their lives ruined by the woke so they won't say what they really think, they'll support the globohomo agenda publicly while being disgusted by it privately.

They fear rioters on their front doorsteps, they fear losing their jobs to cancel culture, they fear losing everything for a slip of the tongue.


----------



## Dom Cruise (Oct 22, 2021)

Normies buy into the narrative that Trump and his followers are Nazis.

They might have found some aspects of SJWs weird but as soon as it was framed "but the other guys are Nazis" they picked the side of Woke.


----------



## Jonah Hill poster (Oct 22, 2021)

It’s trendy to be a doormat for an ideology that’s not even popular outside of America.


----------



## Lee Crabb (Oct 22, 2021)

Are you sure you aren't mixing up normies and left of center grifters?


----------



## Erich Honecker (Oct 22, 2021)

Lee Crabb said:


> Are you sure you aren't mixing up normies and left of center grifters?


It might just be my age group (young millennial/old zoomer boundary) but there's a scary amount of overlap now. Like I said, I have some friends and people I know from university etc who were absolutely not in the "SJW" camp a few years back and several even mocked it, but in 2021 they are mostly in line with the "woke" opinion on cultural/gender/race issues.

Where there seems to still be a lot of backlash is in issues of censorship. Take the Blizzard sexual harassment allegations for instance. Most people I know who know about them believe the allegations wholeheartedly, and so is the general consensus on Reddit and other normie nerd sites. The allegations if you read into them are mostly bogus and overblown shit that I think would have never got so much traction, say, 10 years ago. So I'd class their widespread acceptance as being a sign of how the old SJWs mostly ended up winning the argument on sexual issues. But then you have the slew of content in WoW and Overwatch getting censored or removed because of those allegations, and on that topic, most people I know seem to be completely against it, and even the subreddits are outraged and calling it a hysterical overreaction. So, while people seem to be a lot more "woke" here in the sense of willing to believe wishy-washy #MeToo type accusations and condemn the people involved instantly, they aren't yet in agreement with the "ban everything that offends me" extremists.


----------



## Billy Beer (Oct 22, 2021)

Never, they're just fickle downie spastics who will go with whatever is socially relevant and culturally popular. It's why they're normies.


----------



## UzumakiLeaf (Oct 23, 2021)

I think alot of it is fear as well and wanting to fit in and be on the "right side of history". Most people want to be and do good and be respected by their community. When the good thing seems to be supporting the narrative and anyone who disagrees is a bad person Most will give in.

Hell, when I tried to give Trump credit for something to a lefty friend I got my head bitten off. I don't want to derail this thread into being about Trump so I won't go into the details. What I learned from this interaction is you don't try with these people and my lefty friends would likely throw my ass under the bus to the PC police. So I shut up, give generic answers, and try to change the topic away from anything political.

Then you have all the censorship, calls for more censorship, and the fucking algorithms controlling what you see. It is hard to not get blackpilled. Most people do not even want to break out of their bubble or hear other perspectives. Then they go down the rabbit hole and get further radicalized to the point where acknowledging biological reality is bigoted (transphobe). 

I think people being terminally online is fucking them up as well. You say something the community "agrees", you get a bunch of likes, then you double down to get more likes whether you agree or disagree with what you actually said. If you say the wrong thing and get assblasted, well you don't post the wrongthink anymore and then you bend to the will of the mob. Few people are willing to standby their controversial views.

Then there is the fear the mob could come for you or you want to show how virtuous you are so you change your avatar to whatever the symbol of the flavor of the month "oppressed" community is and make the stunning and brave statement about how you support them.

I think the worst of the normies embracing clown world is an illusion but I think some of it is sinking in which scares me.


----------



## Rusty Crab (Oct 23, 2021)

Do not mistake twitter for normies. Twitter users are legitimately the top worst 5% of people on the entire planet. When I get a resume on my desk and it has a twitter account, I immediately knock off points regardless of what's even on it.


----------



## Stormy Daniel's Lawyer (Oct 23, 2021)

Normies were pushed to support BLM and Troonish bullshit due to fear and nothing else. Everyone sees what happens when you take a stand against these online mobs of nobodies. They come calling with doxing, online harassment, and censorship tactics. 

People who value online peace and quiet simply go along to get along with the mouth-foamers.


----------



## I Love Beef (Oct 23, 2021)

Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> Everyone sees what happens when you take a stand against these online mobs of nobodies. They come calling with doxing, online harassment, and censorship tactics.


And they call this place "alt right nazi land full of evil." 

At least when I do it, I know I'm going after the scum of the earth.


----------



## Lee Crabb (Oct 23, 2021)

Erich Honecker said:


> It might just be my age group (young millennial/old zoomer boundary) but there's a scary amount of overlap now. Like I said, I have some friends and people I know from university etc who were absolutely not in the "SJW" camp a few years back and several even mocked it, but in 2021 they are mostly in line with the "woke" opinion on cultural/gender/race issues.
> 
> Where there seems to still be a lot of backlash is in issues of censorship. Take the Blizzard sexual harassment allegations for instance. Most people I know who know about them believe the allegations wholeheartedly, and so is the general consensus on Reddit and other normie nerd sites. The allegations if you read into them are mostly bogus and overblown shit that I think would have never got so much traction, say, 10 years ago. So I'd class their widespread acceptance as being a sign of how the old SJWs mostly ended up winning the argument on sexual issues. But then you have the slew of content in WoW and Overwatch getting censored or removed because of those allegations, and on that topic, most people I know seem to be completely against it, and even the subreddits are outraged and calling it a hysterical overreaction. So, while people seem to be a lot more "woke" here in the sense of willing to believe wishy-washy #MeToo type accusations and condemn the people involved instantly, they aren't yet in agreement with the "ban everything that offends me" extremists.


Some thoughts (I'm tired, so there might be inconsistencies):

1) I think "normies" are by their very nature not all that political and that most of them don't even know what "woke" or SJW even mean. And when they DO get political, its tends to be in a pretty surface level non-confrontational and non-committal way. Racism and crooked cops bad? Yeah BLM! Rape bad? Yeah #me too! It doesn't necessarily mean kill whitey and all men like political animals.
2) I'd say its  important not to put too much emphasis on personal experiences to make a society wide observations.
3) People change in both directions. I mean, in the last 10 years I went from a center right wishy washy universalist "everyone goes to Heaven" Christian to unironic Deus lo vult "the French Revolution and its consequences  have been a disaster for the human race" monarchist.  I might change in another 10 years. I might not.
4) As an addendum to #3, I don't know what the future holds for certain, but the political pendulum is undoubtedly a real thing. Its clear as day when you look at history.  Victorian sensibilities were a direct response to the sheer dresses and religious irreverence of the Regency era/French Revolution.  The "everything goes" zeitgeist of the Roaring 20s gave way to the 1950s ultra trad housewife. Wokism will die. It might take another 10-20 years, but its going to wear out its welcome eventually like the last Progressive era.


----------



## Stormy Daniel's Lawyer (Oct 23, 2021)

I Love Beef said:


> And they call this place "alt right nazi land full of evil."
> 
> At least when I do it, I know I'm going after the scum of the earth.


If you disagree with the online mob over the thickness of ketchup, you are a racist, homophobic, blah, blah, blah cis white Nazi..


----------



## RSOD (Oct 23, 2021)

Started noticing this with youtubers that i used to watch slowly becoming full blown lefties like h3h3 and NFKRZ that were against the sjw bs  and the comments in some of the youtubers i watch becoming leftist orgies 


MF ALBERT said:


> It’s trendy to be a doormat for an ideology that’s not even popular outside of America.


Go tell that to the lefties in the white house who will either sanction your ass or coincidentally your country has DEMOCARCY


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

The earliest I saw SJW shit being pushed was in the 1990's near the end (start of early 2000's) first time I saw it was on forums like Game Faqs which ironically had some of the most left wing (by yesterday's standards) tos rules of it's time. People followed it to keep in line. Around 2005 is when I began seeing pushes of "including gay characters and minorities because representation" this was before hearing of it popping up on campus which I didn't hear about until 2010-2014.  2011 was my first argument with what we now call the SJW mindset, and the problem is they were good at manipulating the conversation with good intentions which used debate magic and pseudo intellectual argument and that swooned normies over.

It wasn't until around 2015 (late) and 2016 I saw youtubers start adopting SJW mindset to their fanbases, and those fearful of it (Thoughty-Two for instance)

The reason the SJW's took over normies is because they took it over with violence and force and since the right sat by like a good little boy normies adopted it in fear of facing violenc and these people would attack and force it on their own families.. The SJW ideas had begun to bleed into movies for decades. I sometimes rewatch old movies that I never noticed politics in and notice they have them in it. Subtle but they reinforced it to effect those with weak minds to push it on them so they would adopt those values. Since normies adopt things they see such as subliminally it wasn't hard to brainwash them over time. We're talking 1960-1970 movies here.

By 2018-2020 Normies had become part of the woke crowd or protecting it or "not noticing any SJW politics" because it became normal for them.

The problem when people claimed SJW's lost is those people were blind. Since 2011 I warned people of the left myself, when I first became aware of their insanity (around the first time I began debating them) The others were people who wanted to believe "oh it was just a temporary thing and it would fade." Now we have kids being trooned out on average and child abuse has become common or the sexualization of children.

The big issue many will have to realize is some ideologies should NEVER be allowed in society and even violence may not be out of question to stop it or gate keep it from taking hold, because now even normies are SJW-lites. Until the after effects hurt them and then they fall right back in line again regardless of ramifications. Many Boomers still just see the left as just "gayer and more diverse" instead of genocidal and nuts as they are.

A lot of people will realize they've changed from their initial position too but that is because of the overton window shifting largely over time to the left, and as a counter to how far the left is.


----------



## TheBallPit (Oct 23, 2021)

I'm not entirely sure how to tie this into the whole "when did normies become woke" despair, but no matter the year, it was generally considered a wise idea to not talk about PSR(S) amongst friends, even immediate relatives, for fear of starting a hellish rucks. PSR(S) = Politics (fairly obvious), Sex, Religion, and sometimes Sports, as some people elevate their favorite football or baseball team to evangelical status (e.g., soccer hooligans). Unfortunately, given the rise of social media, people became more relaxed about broaching these topics to strangers, which then inevitably spilled-over into IRL acquaintances via emboldening online "likes". After all, if you got 1000 hearts and retweets from said electronic strangers over a politically charged topic, surely your parents and friends agree, too, right?

This eventually led to the tribalism you see today.  As others have written, many people were dragged into SJW lunacy not because of its inherent appeal or faux virtue, but due to the fear of being ostracized and not being "good".  It doesn't take much for an obviously insane ideology to become mainstream, particularly if it can be monetized in some fashion and/or lead to more favorable power dynamics.  It also greatly helps when those viewpoints are warmly embraced by age-old institutions that should know better, like universities.

I also personally think the political right hasn't done itself many favors by deifying the rich and belittling or outright vilifying the poor.  People who've been kicked to the curb time and time again will eventually latch onto anything, no matter how outrageous, to regain some social power and validation.  However, that's another story for another time.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Oct 23, 2021)

It started with new axis of evil. Macron, Merkel, Obama, and most of Northern Europe. I had a feeling when major news outlets began trying to force immigrants down our throats. They've been doing it for a long time, but this just seemed completely radical and unhinged.


----------



## BlueSpark (Oct 23, 2021)

Being "woke" is just conforming to leftist ideology, so basically for hundreds of years at this point. But it started picking up momentum in the west from the 1920s onward.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

I would argue most people haven't changed their views since 2015/2016 but what did occur is the far left and the corporate media began to work together.  The far left unironically believing that they could effect corporate change. So the consent of individuals got manufactured. Basically non binary and trans rights got pushed to the forefront on twitter and Reddit via mass censorship and mass promotion.
Most Americans on the issues agree. But the reality is well the media has manufactured consent to make people believe that all normies are social justice warriors. Because of the dishonest framing by the media as our opponents are dangerous far right extremists people will natrually side with the insane left if the other side are literal Nazis as the media proclaims. But there is a catch a double edged sword so to speak. Because if the left says let us rape and turn your kids trans or else you're Nazis. Well I hate to break it to you but people will eventually break the conditioning and when they do ohh boy oh boy people can go from left wing liberal to far right reactionary very very quickly. Remember Weimar Germany had legalized homosexuality and was on the forefront of transgender research at that time.


----------



## Knight of the Rope (Oct 23, 2021)

Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> Normies were pushed to support BLM and Troonish bullshit due to fear and nothing else. Everyone sees what happens when you take a stand against these online mobs of nobodies.


A lot of them are just pretending, too; they know that they'll be left alone if they _appear_ to be supporting the mob's nonsense, but behind closed doors it's a different story. They just maintain the facade because a lot of them have actual stakes in society (like jobs, a family, a reputation, etc) that they're not willing to risk with political bullshit, which is understandable.

One of my favorite personal examples: there's a guy at work that seems like the soyest leftie cuck you'd ever meet, until you get him on a night out in safe company and a few beers down. It was almost heartwarming to realize that he wasn't the damned soul that I thought he was, and that a lot of his apparent beliefs were deliberate slight-of-hand to distract the crazies away from fucking his shit up.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> The earliest I saw SJW shit being pushed was in the 1990's near the end (start of early 2000's) first time I saw it was on forums like Game Faqs which ironically had some of the most left wing (by yesterday's standards) tos rules of it's time. People followed it to keep in line. Around 2005 is when I began seeing pushes of "including gay characters and minorities because representation" this was before hearing of it popping up on campus which I didn't hear about until 2010-2014.  2011 was my first argument with what we now call the SJW mindset, and the problem is they were good at manipulating the conversation with good intentions which used debate magic and pseudo intellectual argument and that swooned normies over.
> 
> It wasn't until around 2015 (late) and 2016 I saw youtubers start adopting SJW mindset to their fanbases, and those fearful of it (Thoughty-Two for instance)
> 
> ...


Yeah the issue with the right and it's biggest failure is the fact the right wing consistently caves into the far left. Like the stonetoss meme in 15 years Republicans are going to call the neo leninists the real transphobes. Gay marriage went from being universally opposed on the right wing in 2001 to 2021 if you misgender someone at a conservative Inc conference you'll get ostracized from the republican party structure. Look at Nick fuentes, and how scared con inc is of groypers despite them being nothing more the edgy kids ultimately. It starts by this con inc guy will stand proudly against transgender menace and protect our kids. Then the con inc guy will try to control the narrative by saying. "Hey troons are bad but we can't be transphobic, eventually they will begin to barter with them saying okay trans sports are fine but trans bathrooms is our limit. To finally we have always been for trans rights to begin with. For progressives they constantly see history as a line of continual progress in their eyes humans have never technologically or scientifically regressed. They see dark ages as simply stagnation periods. It's unironically because of this worldview they can justify trans kids as it's the next step to transhumanism and ending all of our issues as a species. The woke shit in the way it's being pushed will lead to something seen during the french revolution. It will create a power vacum and a self styled Napoleon or Hitler of the day will take over. History has gone through constant cycles of this.


----------



## TitusOvid (Oct 23, 2021)

When corporations largely adopted it and teamed up with leftists to harass and belittle anyone who didn't agree with it.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> Yeah the issue with the right and it's biggest failure is the fact the right wing consistently caves into the far left. Like the stonetoss meme in 15 years Republicans are going to call the neo leninists the real transphobes. Gay marriage went from being universally opposed on the right wing in 2001 to 2021 if you misgender someone at a conservative Inc conference you'll get ostracized from the republican party structure. Look at Nick fuentes, and how scared con inc is of groypers despite them being nothing more the edgy kids ultimately. It starts by this con inc guy will stand proudly against transgender menace and protect our kids. Then the con inc guy will try to control the narrative by saying. "Hey troons are bad but we can't be transphobic, eventually they will begin to barter with them saying okay trans sports are fine but trans bathrooms is our limit. To finally we have always been for trans rights to begin with. For progressives they constantly see history as a line of continual progress in their eyes humans have never technologically or scientifically regressed. They see dark ages as simply stagnation periods. It's unironically because of this worldview they can justify trans kids as it's the next step to transhumanism and ending all of our issues as a species. The woke shit in the way it's being pushed will lead to something seen during the french revolution. It will create a power vacum and a self styled Napoleon or Hitler of the day will take over. History has gone through constant cycles of this.


Yep. It's why the right wing constantly loses non-right allies, because those who are trying to point out the insanity are branded "extremist" for daring to say these people are grooming children and the right acts like nothing is wrong while the whole cafe is on fire. The whole trying to ally themselves with democrat voting minorities (But they'll be Christians, they'll vote right in a few years ) nonsense is also infuriating.

Like when they go to hug Hispanics and forget Hispanics had no problem stealing from the middle class for free gibs or the Black conservative groups voted for Biden over getting a potential free gib set.

It's less that they can't see the reality of the situation they are afraid if they admit the truth bad things will come from it while they ignore that ignoring those inherent truths (such as race different) has only led to more prolonged suffering and misery and potential genocide. The right's greatest failing is thinking acting in good intentions is a solid plan. It never was and never will be.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> Yep. It's why the right wing constantly loses non-right allies, because those who are trying to point out the insanity are branded "extremist" for daring to say these people are grooming children and the right acts like nothing is wrong while the whole cafe is on fire. The whole trying to ally themselves with democrat voting minorities (But they'll be Christians, they'll vote right in a few years ) nonsense is also infuriating.
> 
> Like when they go to hug Hispanics and forget Hispanics had no problem stealing from the middle class for free gibs or the Black conservative groups voted for Biden over getting a potential free gib set.
> 
> It's less that they can't see the reality of the situation they are afraid if they admit the truth bad things will come from it while they ignore that ignoring those inherent truths (such as race different) has only led to more prolonged suffering and misery and potential genocide. The right's greatest failing is thinking acting in good intentions is a solid plan. It never was and never will be.


It's like this the right wing needs to go to the issues. Trump won in 2016 because of economic populism. The Obama recovery made most of middle america poor/poorer while the coastal cities got richer. I mean the whole gibs plan ignores the fact their base is white Americans and most white Americans feel underrepresented. Dems take minorty voters for granted but the gops outreach helps no one. They would do better to stick towards their guns and attack the left for being pedophiles and groomers. But at the end of the day the pricinpled conservatives are going to be the downfall of the right. It's like the libertarians who said but Facebook, Google and Twitter are private companies. Then they got their accounts banned and alternatives quashed. If the right wins it won't be because the rights winning. It's going to be because the left will become increasingly more deranged and out of touch with the average person.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> It's like this the right wing needs to go to the issues. Trump won in 2016 because of economic populism. The Obama recovery made most of middle america poor/poorer while the coastal cities got richer. I mean the whole gibs plan ignores the fact their base is white Americans and most white Americans feel underrepresented. Dems take minorty voters for granted but the gops outreach helps no one. _*They would do better to stick towards their guns and attack the left for being pedophiles and groomers.*_ But at the end of the day the pricinpled conservatives are going to be the downfall of the right. It's like the libertarians who said but Facebook, Google and Twitter are private companies. Then they got their accounts banned and alternatives quashed. If the right wins it won't be because the rights winning. It's going to be because the left will become increasingly more deranged and out of touch with the average person.


Exactly. They need to realize the reason most of these other groups don't care about that selective sentence, is those groups come from countries or partake in those groups on average. So of course they don't care and right wingers need to realize this. "B-B-But I need more allies."   Well if the right wins it will because those who could be potential allies will have enough and finally have extremist purges in this country. The only issue is those on the right might get a bullet too if and or when that time comes, can't have that same mistake repeat in the face of new potential enemies. The problem with the average person is normies will never stand against those forcing power. The right or those who ally with them have to take that power grasp or lose everything.  There is no peaceful solution and them being insane as shown in history won't sway the ignorant masses who will say or do anything to continue their rat race.

The right also needs to start calling out their cowards. You wouldn't believe the amount of modern right wingers who tell me they fled from authoritarian  countries and then advocate for basically losing because "They'd rather die than  violate the constitution." Although the left stripping their rights seems a-ok to them. Cowards, morons, and stiff wrists.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> Exactly. They need to realize the reason most of these other groups don't care about that selective sentence, is those groups come from countries or partake in those groups on average. So of course they don't care and right wingers need to realize this. "B-B-But I need more allies."   Well if the right wins it will because those who could be potential allies will have enough and finally have extremist purges in this country. The only issue is those on the right might get a bullet too if and or when that time comes, can't have that same mistake repeat in the face of new potential enemies. The problem with the average person is normies will never stand against those forcing power. The right or those who ally with them have to take that power grasp or lose everything.  There is no peaceful solution and them being insane as shown in history won't sway the ignorant masses who will say or do anything to continue their rat race.
> 
> The right also needs to start calling out their cowards. You wouldn't believe the amount of modern right wingers who tell me they fled from authoritarian  countries and then advocate for basically losing because "They'd rather die than  violate the constitution." Although the left stripping their rights seems a-ok to them. Cowards, morons, and stiff wrists.


That is the problem is the cowardly nature of the right wing but then again normies are like that too. People are to scared to say how they feel because of years of propaganda and you don't want to be seen as lowclass. There is also an element of snobbery within the right especially conservative Inc that hates the people who support them. They would rather be social justice warriors but because they're religious, white and male are pushed into the right instead.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> That is the problem is the cowardly nature of the right wing but then again normies are like that too. People are to scared to say how they feel because of years of propaganda and you don't want to be seen as lowclass. There is also an element of snobbery within the right especially conservative Inc that hates the people who support them. They would rather be social justice warriors but because they're religious, white and male are pushed into the right instead.


I've had a theory about this for a long time. If you look pre WW1, and pre WW2 the right wing used to be more resilient and courageous. I honestly believe that after those two wars most of the strong men died, and thanks to the weak (or bad) men and genes in society reproducing over their dead bodies it left the right merely existing as weak cowardly men with a few strong men in between. The problem is them being strong doesn't mean the strong remainders are intelligent.

Oh yes, that hatred might be from a place of envy, weak people hate the strong. Many right wing "followers" are more courageous than their leaders and middle men and speakers thus they loathe them and are willing to toss them under the bus or fight on behalf of other groups (black conservatives who betrayed them recently for instance)... I used to believe it was merely controlled opposition and that commies and socialist wormed their way into the system for long periods, but it honestly looks like they didn't have to sabotage them when they were planning it all on their own. Sure the aforementioned thought probably still happened, but it's baffling.

Honestly, I'm starting to believe the left has scared the people who are cowards to the right. The problem is the right was never a majority and the few strong men are either dumb and falling for propaganda, or  hoping not to lose face and numbers so trying to capitulate to normies thus the shifting Overton window. Either way it won't work and the sooner the right or even centrist (who aren't all left-leaning >.>) learn this the better. Otherwise conspiracy theories people have that are coming true are going to look like sweet dreams in place of the nightmares about to descend.


----------



## mr.moon1488 (Oct 23, 2021)

Since this became the will of the ruling class.  People like to think that they have free will.  People who have actual power love for people to think that they have free will.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> I've had a theory about this for a long time. If you look pre WW1, and pre WW2 the right wing used to be more resilient and courageous. I honestly believe that after those two wars most of the strong men died, and thanks to the weak (or bad) men and genes in society reproducing over their dead bodies it left the right merely existing as weak cowardly men with a few strong men in between. The problem is them being strong doesn't mean the strong remainders are intelligent.
> 
> Oh yes, that hatred might be from a place of envy, weak people hate the strong. Many right wing "followers" are more courageous than their leaders and middle men and speakers thus they loathe them and are willing to toss them under the bus or fight on behalf of other groups (black conservatives who betrayed them recently for instance)... I used to believe it was merely controlled opposition and that commies and socialist wormed their way into the system for long periods, but it honestly looks like they didn't have to sabotage them when they were planning it all on their own. Sure the aforementioned thought probably still happened, but it's baffling.
> 
> Honestly, I'm starting to believe the left has scared the people who are cowards to the right. The problem is the right was never a majority and the few strong men are either dumb and falling for propaganda, or  hoping not to lose face and numbers so trying to capitulate to normies thus the shifting Overton window. Either way it won't work and the sooner the right or even centrist (who aren't all left-leaning >.>) learn this the better. Otherwise conspiracy theories people have that are coming true are going to look like sweet dreams in place of the nightmares about to descend.


Where we are headed for is a very very dark place. The left doesn't want to heal, they want revenge. Antifa wants to export their anti fascism to the world. At some point islamists and theocratic Christan conservatives are going to find themselves on the same page. 
meanwhile if you look at the right wing they just want to grift or are cowardly. But the right needs to understand the left does not see them as equal. The left regularly dehumanizes the right wing. It is because of this the right wing will either have to become far right reactionaries or perish. Anyways take a look at the videos comments.

https://youtu.be/rYMIozCKxGE the video itself isn't a problem it's just vice "exposing" grifting preachers trying to be relevant. But if you look and read the comments they're very frightening. These people in the comment section are real people and the things they say and wish if they got power should frighten anyone. Because you have bitter angry bugmen that would happily throw religious people into reeducation camps and commit atrocities to win.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> Where we are headed for is a very very dark place. The left doesn't want to heal, they want revenge. Antifa wants to export their anti fascism to the world. At some point islamists and theocratic Christan conservatives are going to find themselves on the same page.
> meanwhile if you look at the right wing they just want to grift or are cowardly. But the right needs to understand the left does not see them as equal. The left regularly dehumanizes the right wing. It is because of this the right wing will either have to become far right reactionaries or perish. Anyways take a look at the videos comments.
> 
> https://youtu.be/rYMIozCKxGE the video itself isn't a problem it's just vice "exposing" grifting preachers trying to be relevant. But if you look and read the comments they're very frightening. These people in the comment section are real people and the things they say and wish if they got power should frighten anyone. Because you have bitter angry bugmen that would happily throw religious people into reeducation camps and commit atrocities to win.


The problem is where we are heading, the left won't be the only fear we have. We are importing a group of people who are majorly in with drug cartels that are seeing an increase of sex trafficking. They may side with the right for a time but sooner or later, they will betray the right too for their own power grasp, and they have some who are White within the Latino community but down the road you mgiht see them go "My fellow whites" routine similar to another tribe. They'll have targets on the left and journalist, and others for a time, but merely that.

It's why we either wait for that eventual communist take over, a race war that doesn't favor those of us fighting for liberty, or we stop it now. Sadly too many whites are demotivated, nad have given up on themselves that we're better off hoping for a new Hitler figure or face extinction long term. 

The bugmen fucked up by allowing the Hispanics into the country who are mass populating it now, and even Commie Jews won't have enough time to stop the spread, and when or if they advocate for killing religious people the new population replacements will probably rise up against them and slaughter them. Unlike the older white fools, the Hispanic communities don't see Israel and Jews as a holy cow that can't be chastised. 

Honestly, we have enemies on all sides, and people still want to deny it which is only going to get worse, I still believe it can be solved it won't be the good ending everyone wants no matter what, there aren't going to be a "everyone wins" solution, but for the sake of the future of the west I hope we can prevent this take over or it will be over long term.


----------



## Dom Cruise (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> Where we are headed for is a very very dark place. The left doesn't want to heal, they want revenge.


Revenge is exactly it, they went from being mad Trump is President to being mad he was ever allowed to be President to begin with and wanting payback for it.

Here we are almost a year after the 2020 election and yet nothing's changed, almost a year without Orange Man in the white house but the left hasn't calmed down, people haven't become any less deranged, they're still just as pissed off as when he was actually still President.

And they want to ensure nothing like that could ever happen again and are increasingly stepping on our freedom to do so.

The whole thing really revealed a very deep divide in the US that can probably only be sorted out with a war, a genie has been let out of the bottle.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> The problem is where we are heading, the left won't be the only fear we have. We are importing a group of people who are majorly in with drug cartels that are seeing an increase of sex trafficking. They may side with the right for a time but sooner or later, they will betray the right too for their own power grasp, and they have some who are White within the Latino community but down the road you mgiht see them go "My fellow whites" routine similar to another tribe. They'll have targets on the left and journalist, and others for a time, but merely that.
> 
> It's why we either wait for that eventual communist take over, a race war that doesn't favor those of us fighting for liberty, or we stop it now. Sadly too many whites are demotivated, nad have given up on themselves that we're better off hoping for a new Hitler figure or face extinction long term.
> 
> ...


Realistically speaking we should give up on the idea of a united america. Republics only Last about a quarter of a millenia. It would be better instead to take local control and foment secessionist movements to preserve Liberty. Sometimes in order to preserve Liberty and the Spirt of democracy and freedom one must abandon the nation founded on those ideals when the nation itself can no longer regulate itself. That's why as a right winger I am actively pushing for the breakup of the United States. Sure I will miss the old united states and what it stood for but I also would be foolish to want this system to continue for another hundred years. It would be impossible for it to do so. doing so would require an imperial system and that America no matter how much wealth it might have and how big it is on the map it would make the Russian Federation seem like the epitome of liberal democracy.


----------



## Hoi Polloi (Oct 23, 2021)

People are generally decent, not saints but certainly not monsters, and wokism latched on to that. Most people don't hate other races just because they look different, or think there's anything wrong with normie gays who just want quiet lives with their husbands, or think women don't deserve the same rights as men, or feel like an extremely effeminate gay man who feels more comfortable dressing like a woman is a threat to them. So they shrugged an went along with it because they're good people and, in theory, they agreed with a lot of the things wokesters claimed to want.

Now that it's become more extreme people know something is wrong but wokesters have become so loud and gained so much institutional power, regular people are afraid of having their lives ruined and losing their livelihoods if the speak out.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Revenge is exactly it, they went from being mad Trump is President to being mad he was ever allowed to be President to begin with and wanting payback for it.
> 
> Here we are almost a year after the 2020 election and yet nothing's changed, almost a year without Orange Man in the white house but the left hasn't calmed down, people haven't become any less deranged, they're still just as pissed off as when he was actually still President.
> 
> ...


Yep we're doomed for another civil war. The civil war we get won't be nice or pretty in fact anyone who says you can't win against an army that has tanks bombs and jets doesn't seem to understand asymmetrical warfare even in the age of drone technology there are plenty of counter measures and small drones are cheap enough that some autist in his or her basement/garage can easily create drone bombs and use it on the government as well.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> Realistically speaking we should give up on the idea of a united america. Republics only Last about a quarter of a millenia. It would be better instead to take local control and foment secessionist movements to preserve Liberty. Sometimes in order to preserve Liberty and the Spirt of democracy and freedom one must abandon the nation founded on those ideals when the nation itself can no longer regulate itself. That's why as a right winger I am actively pushing for the breakup of the United States. Sure I will miss the old united states and what it stood for but I also would be foolish to want this system to continue for another hundred years. It would be impossible for it to do so. doing so would require an imperial system and that America no matter how much wealth it might have and how big it is on the map it would make the Russian Federation seem like the epitome of liberal democracy.


The only problem I have the same that Young Rippah (Youtuber has proposed) is currently the left is never going to give up that power, and even if you did secede they would just infiltrate by bidding their time and pull the same thing again. They would blend in and wait until you don't notice and do the same brainwashing of children and leftist uprising. That's without bringing in ally armies to help them destroy those who secede and or what have you. In the long run, sooner or later violence will break out. This kicking the can down the road will lead to many causalities. Best pray they aren't your family or you yourself having your dreams cut short in the coming conflict.

The other issue is most of the groups will power struggle (race/ethnicity/etc.) even if you did remove the left from the equation. Just imagine a repeat of the Alamo or something similar to reclaim land to take it from our hands. It could happen, and no one would stop it. UN at best would condemn it  and the left might aid those who would seek to claim it. I hate to quash such ideas, but no peaceful solution is outing us of this scenario. I wish it was feasible, I  just do not have that faith in humanity alone let alone the pieces on our current chess board of it ever working out like that.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> The only problem I have the same that Young Rippah (Youtuber has proposed) is currently the left is never going to give up that power, and even if you did secede they would just infiltrate by bidding their time and pull the same thing again. They would blend in and wait until you don't notice and do the same brainwashing of children and leftist uprising. That's without bringing in ally armies to help them destroy those who secede and or what have you. In the long run, sooner or later violence will break out. This kicking the can down the road will lead to many causalities. Best pray they aren't your family or you yourself having your dreams cut short in the coming conflict.
> 
> The other issue is most of the groups will power struggle (race/ethnicity/etc.) even if you did remove the left from the equation. Just imagine a repeat of the Alamo or something similar to reclaim land to take it from our hands. It could happen, and no one would stop it. UN at best would condemn it  and the left might aid those who would seek to claim it. I hate to quash such ideas, but no peaceful solution is outing us of this scenario. I wish it was feasible, I  just do not have that faith in humanity alone let alone the pieces on our current chess board of it ever working out like that.


Seperation or death is the only solution and realistically speaking the only way to survive is that way. Sure the left will do what they do best infiltrate and try to quash it. This is why we can't afford to lose we have to essentially realize seperation is the only way forward.

It's a zero sum game the left has made but the reason I say seperation is a way forward is it can buy us a couple of generations give us a chance to regroup, reorganize and rework things. But here is the thing the left has to destroy something but once something is completely destroyed by the left there seems to be very little incentive to go back that way. This is why eastern Europe is going the route of hard right democracies. Russia for all it's corruption and ineptitude won't ever let the communists gain a majority in the Dumas. People like young rippa get blackpilled because they fail to realize ultimately democracies aren't meant to last forever. Breaking up america to preserve the liberty will save it for perhaps a generation or two. But sometimes that's all you need to do. Because the left forgets times change on the global scale. The leftist movements of the turn of the century would be destroyed by neoliberalism in the later half. Now neoliberalism looks like it's going to be destroyed by intersectional multi culturalism. But alas intersectional multi culturalism won't last. 

For me the break-up of the US seems like the only way we can save the ideals of the US at this point.


----------



## GoingGrink (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> Yeah the issue with the right and it's biggest failure is the fact the right wing consistently caves into the far left. Like the stonetoss meme in 15 years Republicans are going to call the neo leninists the real transphobes..


----------



## SSj_Ness (Oct 23, 2021)

Constant brainwashing of everyone. Also they target the youth, so most young people are indoctrinated. Conservatives tend to be older, and so therefore are literally dying out.

In with the woke, out with the sane. Simple as that. Import illegal Democrats to really stack the deck, and bonus points if you can convince non-Whites that conservatives are racist.


----------



## Truman the Jewman (Oct 23, 2021)

Personally I believe Hoover and Harding ruined the good name of the Republican Party prior to WWII ever even starting, and all the Right has been RINO ever since, starting with Eisenhower as president--weak on civil rights, ineffectual and willing to give everything over to globalist interests just because of "muh WWII" and licking the asses of the newly Holocoastered (((interests))) of the world. This is where people like Soros got their start, mind.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Oct 23, 2021)

I don't think woke is too normal. Powers that shouldn't be use woke to run the mainstream media and at least leftist politics, but as the recent election and "go woke go broke" show, about every other person doesn't like it. But they can't say much without being "cancelled".


----------



## Erich Honecker (Oct 23, 2021)

ToroidalBoat said:


> I don't think woke is too normal. Powers that shouldn't be use woke to run the mainstream media and at least leftist politics, but as the recent election and "go woke go broke" show, about every other person doesn't like it. But they can't say much without being "cancelled".


I suppose the problem is that, with how much discourse takes place online these days, and with how much the online is controlled by these monopolistic mega-corporations, that astroturfing of previously unpopular opinions can gradually make them popular. If you're going online now and you barely see any criticism of these progressive cultural topics, and you see anyone who does question it being shouted down as "racist" "bigoted" "transphobic", then you're going to feel alone if you don't agree with those views. A lot of people just fall in line with the "consensus" (even if the consensus is manipulated to appear a certain way) because they feel it's futile to resist it.

There's probably a hell of a lot of people out there who hate the woke "consensus" but have nowhere to go to voice it, because the platforms where such views used to be allowed started to crack down on them harshly post-2017. See subreddits like GenderCritical, The_Donald and NoNewNormal being banned. A minority of the users move on to alternative platforms, but they inevitably seem to descend into schizo-tier shit so the appeal to normies is lost, as well as them being difficult to find. I absolutely think a motivation behind the brutal censorship policies on Reddit, Facebook, Twitter etc in the past few years is to get the large mass of people who don't agree on certain topics to just give up and embrace the consensus. They want people to feel totally alone and therefore to just "go with the flow" for the sake of their own social and mental wellbeing.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Oct 23, 2021)

Erich Honecker said:


> I suppose the problem is that, with how much discourse takes place online these days, and with how much the online is controlled by these monopolistic mega-corporations, that astroturfing of previously unpopular opinions can gradually make them popular.


That's what the powers that shouldn't be seem to want: they think that by censoring "wrongthink" and shoving propaganda, they can force people to be woke. Woke is "toxic" and anti-human, and it's useful in keeping the "little people" submissive. For example, "individualism" is being looked down on as "white supremacy". It's also useful to keep people divided with endless racial and "gender" politics, instead of united against the tyrants. And it's been that way since Occupy was derailed with woke.

What the tyrants seem to really want is the "little people" living in a cybernetic hive of isolated yet hiveminded "serfs" they have absolute power over. And woke seems to be very useful in breaking down what's left of "society" to rebuild it. Like I said, and it may sound "doomer", but we really do live in a "cyberpunk dystopia". A cyberpunk dystopia that I hope can end without a collapse.


----------



## Cat Menagerie (Oct 23, 2021)

They haven't and some are pushing back now. Most people ignore or are unaware of the insidious creep of shit like this. When it becomes apparent or starts interfering with their lives too much, then it becomes a problem to them.


----------



## celebrityskin (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> It's like the libertarians who said but Facebook, Google and Twitter are private companies. Then they got their accounts banned and alternatives quashed.


Libertarians will never be the face of the GOP or American right-wing politics. Ever.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Oct 23, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> If the right wins it won't be because the rights winning.


IF the right wins. 2020 showed us the Democrats may "not lose" a major election again.

Especially when mainstream media covers up accusations of fraud with "it's just a conspiracy theory bro".


----------



## Grub (Oct 23, 2021)

Depends on what class of people you're talking about. I don't think I've ever met an actual woke middle class or even lower-lower middle class blue collar worker type person. Construction workers, contractors, tradespeople, people like that and even in specialized retail businesses servicing people like that. There's no fucking around with current year fuckery. There's no diversity quotas, or language police or worrying about people's speshul identities and feelings. 

Where you do see a lot of the woke shit coming from is middle-upper class white collar people, poor retail and service workers and academia.

The funny thing is, having spent much of the last 10 years working with and being around blue collar type folks, I've probably worked in more 'diverse' environments than any corporation with diversity mandates or whatever. I've worked with people of all kinds from all of over the world, there was only one thing that ever mattered, were they retards? If not all good, people mostly got along, there isn't time for that kinda shit, there's work to be done. Otherwise well, there's the McDonalds around the corner bud.


----------



## Dom Cruise (Oct 23, 2021)

Hoi Polloi said:


> People are generally decent, not saints but certainly not monsters, and wokism latched on to that. Most people don't hate other races just because they look different, or think there's anything wrong with normie gays who just want quiet lives with their husbands, or think women don't deserve the same rights as men, or feel like an extremely effeminate gay man who feels more comfortable dressing like a woman is a threat to them. So they shrugged an went along with it because they're good people and, in theory, they agreed with a lot of the things wokesters claimed to want.
> 
> Now that it's become more extreme people know something is wrong but wokesters have become so loud and gained so much institutional power, regular people are afraid of having their lives ruined and losing their livelihoods if the speak out.


They preyed on people's better nature, they literally weaponized empathy and the desire to do good, think about how evil that is.

They weaponized people's fear of one form of extremism in order to normalize the opposite form of extremism.



LeChampion1992 said:


> Yep we're doomed for another civil war. The civil war we get won't be nice or pretty in fact anyone who says you can't win against an army that has tanks bombs and jets doesn't seem to understand asymmetrical warfare even in the age of drone technology there are plenty of counter measures and small drones are cheap enough that some autist in his or her basement/garage can easily create drone bombs and use it on the government as well.


Or all it would take is putting down the most extreme Antifa types in Minecraft and it would be over with in a matter of days.

I don't know if it would be as dramatic as what you're saying, but it is clear that there's people on the left who aren't going to be happy until they can enact violence on their political enemies.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 23, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Or all it would take is putting down the most extreme Antifa types in Minecraft and it would be over with in a matter of days.
> 
> I don't know if it would be as dramatic as what you're saying, but it is clear that there's people on the left who aren't going to be happy until they can enact violence on their political enemies.


They would sit waiting until another chance arrives to start this whole issue up again. Nazi's in Germany killed many Antifa types, so they hid underground made their way to the USA and then started up their operation again. Now however, you don't just have Antifa, you have BLM and other organizations the left has empowered. (La Raza )


----------



## DejaThoris (Oct 23, 2021)

This woke ideology is built on a house of sand, it can't last indefinitely. My only concerns are how long it takes before it finally dies and what kind of damage it does before it's death.

The Soviet Union lasted something like 80 years. Sometimes bad things last a long time. This woke shit could possibly outlive us all. I hate to think what the USA would look like after 80 years of woke culture. 

If the pendulum finally swings back to the right in the year 2101 then who knows what that swing will look like or what social weirdness will have evolved by then. Will the new right wing be Neo libertarian Quetzalcoatl worshippers fighting to establish the capitalist United States of Aztlan? Something stranger that we can't even imagine now?


----------



## UzumakiLeaf (Oct 23, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> They preyed on people's better nature, they literally weaponized empathy and the desire to do good, think about how evil that is.
> 
> They weaponized people's fear of one form of extremism in order to normalize the opposite form of extremism.


That is what makes it so hard to argue against, you just sound like an asshole and they argue that you are. 

It really doesn't help that the biggest advocates against SJWs do tend to come across as assholes. "Facts do not care about your feelings" or "You just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps". It all sounds so cold and when you are in a tough place. Saying fuck your feelings or you just need to work harder just adds salt to the wound.

Then you have these other people that say yes we understand and want to help you. Here we will add more representation for you in media  (insert REES from the likes of Quaerter Pounder) and what we need is more equity because society is so bigoted that equality is not enough. We need an upheaval to level the playing field.

I do see the appeal of this. However, with the current projectory the end result is just going to be more pain and suffering. What people forget is there is a very fine line between justice and revenge. In the end, two wrongs do not make a right. It is very easy to become the monster you seek to fight.


----------



## Choc (Oct 23, 2021)

UzumakiLeaf said:


> That is what makes it so hard to argue against, you just sound like an asshole and they argue that you are.
> 
> It really doesn't help that the biggest advocates against SJWs do tend to come across as assholes. "Facts do not care about your feelings" or "You just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps". It all sounds so cold and when you are in a tough place. Saying fuck your feelings or you just need to work harder just adds salt to the wound.
> 
> ...



Asshole ≠ Invalid Argument.

The Effect of Genes on the Black-White IQ Gap makes a lot of people emotional, doesn’t mean bringing it up is bad.


----------



## The Curmudgeon (Oct 24, 2021)

UzumakiLeaf said:


> I think the worst of the normies embracing clown world is an illusion but I think some of it is sinking in which scares me.


That scares me too. The normies are the ones who effectively normalize things that shouldn't be normal. In a way, they're living up to their well-deserved label. Fear, stupidity, complacency, apathy, guilt, and conformity, among other reasons, lay the foundation of what passes for normie logic. At least, that's how I see it these days.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 24, 2021)

celebrityskin said:


> Libertarians will never be the face of the GOP or American right-wing politics. Ever.


Nope the closest chance we had was 1992 with Ross Perot and 2012 with the Ron Paul movement. Hell libertarians either are hosting a bunch of definitely  not corporate media plants who jump on political bandwagons then infiltrate and destroy them so they can benefit the establishment. Or you have left wing ANTIFA plants who already distrust libertarians because of muh reactionary issues who infiltrate such groups and start coming up with oxymoronic terms like libertarian socialist to purposefully muddy the waters. Remember the 2016 libertarian conference the fat guy in question turned out to be some libertarian socialist communist.


----------



## Ser Prize (Oct 24, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> Yep. It's why the right wing constantly loses non-right allies, because those who are trying to point out the insanity are branded "extremist" for daring to say these people are grooming children and the right acts like nothing is wrong while the whole cafe is on fire. The whole trying to ally themselves with democrat voting minorities (But they'll be Christians, they'll vote right in a few years ) nonsense is also infuriating.
> 
> Like when they go to hug Hispanics and forget Hispanics had no problem stealing from the middle class for free gibs or the Black conservative groups voted for Biden over getting a potential free gib set.
> 
> It's less that they can't see the reality of the situation they are afraid if they admit the truth bad things will come from it while they ignore that ignoring those inherent truths (such as race different) has only led to more prolonged suffering and misery and potential genocide. The right's greatest failing is thinking acting in good intentions is a solid plan. It never was and never will be.


I'd say it goes deeper than that. I'd say the issue is that many people with right leaning politics are still victims of the left's moralizing brainwashing. Admitting that 'POC'  members almost uniformly unite against whitey triggers the thought virus that "BUT THAT'S RACIST! RACIST=BADBADBAD".


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 24, 2021)

Ser Prize said:


> I'd say it goes deeper than that. I'd say the issue is that many people with right leaning politics are still victims of the left's moralizing brainwashing. Admitting that 'POC'  members almost uniformly unite against whitey triggers the thought virus that "BUT THAT'S RACIST! RACIST=BADBADBAD".


I agree, it does it goes far deeper, I'd even argue it goes into tinfoil (but true) depth. It reminds me of the time I debated a black Republican about how not admitting the truth about race is desroying society and they then argued "Well if the truth were to get out then racist would use it to their advantage." To what? Undo the damage is far worse than letting them destroy society by lies and omissions?

Honestly, I start to suspect many minority groups formed an anti-White group many eons ago and peppered it to their children to get revenge on White civilizations. Some unspoken rules that they know about  similar to how one of my black friends used to inform me that his family acted way different around white people and when they weren't around. A deep hatred they would release once whitey was nowhere in sight. Even my arab friend told me that Hispanics and Blacks are doing this to White's because it's a battle of dominance. So the other groups are aware of this and do acknowledge it being a thing.

Whites have had their self-preservation destroyed due to propoganda during 1930-1990s to the point I'm not sure enough will wake up to the truth before whites are nearly erased from existence with no help from white women and self hating white men.


----------



## dirtydeanna96 (Oct 24, 2021)

2011, the Arab spring and occupy.
a number of my friends started back then, i thought eventually they would see how nuts it all was.

but.. it's been a decade now guys.


----------



## Ser Prize (Oct 25, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> I agree, it does it goes far deeper, I'd even argue it goes into tinfoil (but true) depth. It reminds me of the time I debated a black Republican about how not admitting the truth about race is desroying society and they then argued "Well if the truth were to get out then racist would use it to their advantage." To what? Undo the damage is far worse than letting them destroy society by lies and omissions?
> 
> Honestly, I start to suspect many minority groups formed an anti-White group many eons ago and peppered it to their children to get revenge on White civilizations. Some unspoken rules that they know about  similar to how one of my black friends used to inform me that his family acted way different around white people and when they weren't around. A deep hatred they would release once whitey was nowhere in sight. Even my arab friend told me that Hispanics and Blacks are doing this to White's because it's a battle of dominance. So the other groups are aware of this and do acknowledge it being a thing.
> 
> Whites have had their self-preservation destroyed due to propoganda during 1930-1990s to the point I'm not sure enough will wake up to the truth before whites are nearly erased from existence with no help from white women and self hating white men.


I don't think there was any nefarious secret meeting to disseminate anti-white feelings to the children of minorities. I think, as your arab friend said, it's merely a species-old case of tribalism and dominance. Different groups who inherently realize they're different acting in service solely of themselves against the host. Once such a sizable population has amassed as to make this a problem I fear it is terminal.

What was mainstream thought in the early 1900's is radical extremist hate nowadays, such notions of ethnic self preservation had to be carved from the minds of at least three generations so that they may quietly march towards their death. What better weapon than WW2 to cut a new wound when the one slavery cut had healed.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Oct 25, 2021)

Ser Prize said:


> I don't think there was any nefarious secret meeting to disseminate anti-white feelings to the children of minorities. I think, as your arab friend said, it's merely a species-old case of tribalism and dominance. Different groups who inherently realize they're different acting in service solely of themselves against the host. Once such a sizable population has amassed as to make this a problem I fear it is terminal.
> 
> What was mainstream thought in the early 1900's is radical extremist hate nowadays, such notions of ethnic self preservation had to be carved from the minds of at least three generations so that they may quietly march towards their death. What better weapon than WW2 to cut a new wound when the one slavery cut had healed.


Well to be more specific I don't think they literally sat by a campfire and formed an agreement pact, but I wouldn't be surprised if different tribes began to resent the one tribe that went further than their own and began to find ways to try to undermine that which had dominated them.

You look at society currently and how blacks and hispanics hate each other, blacks and hispanics don't have the nicest view of asians, and yet all three of them vote democrat, and even call the republican party "the White man's party." Yet the democrat party screws asians, and blacks. Even the Jews vote primarily D. Yet, they get screwed too. It seems odd to see it play out despite there being ample evidence that it hurts their children and group too, unless damaging whites despite taking the blowback seems worth it. It raises my suspicions a bit to say the least.


----------



## Ser Prize (Oct 25, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> Well to be more specific I don't think they literally sat by a campfire and formed an agreement pact, but I wouldn't be surprised if different tribes began to resent the one tribe that went further than their own and began to find ways to try to undermine that which had dominated them.
> 
> You look at society currently and how blacks and hispanics hate each other, blacks and hispanics don't have the nicest view of asians, and yet all three of them vote democrat, and even call the republican party "the White man's party." Yet the democrat party screws asians, and blacks. Even the Jews vote primarily D. Yet, they get screwed too. It seems odd to see it play out despite there being ample evidence that it hurts their children and group too, unless damaging whites despite taking the blowback seems worth it. It raises my suspicions a bit to say the least.


In that example it's one tribe using the others as a weapon, all to advocate self interest at the harm of the host tribe. Which they can only accomplish via a century of constant guilt and brainwashing, demonizing the mere concept of white people trying to protect their continued existence.


----------



## Retired Junta Member (Oct 25, 2021)

Chronologically, i would say around 2015. 
Emotionally, when they started to be scared of activists who could ruin their life calling them racists in public. 

Something something the result of 7 decades collectively spent reading every  single social issues through the anachronistic lens of nazism/not nazism.


----------



## 4STA (Oct 25, 2021)

It is a simple answer really. When the flow of information became much more centralized and began guiding people to "woke" content and filtering out any "non-woke" content. Then quickly over time most people are programmed to agree to the only type of opinion they're allowed to see or state.

I said exactly this would happen when Big Tech began their information control, but for some reason this wasn't the obvious outcome to even most of the people noting the control was taking place, as in they thought most people would just remain independent thinking and 2016 2.0 will come again soon! (lol, the delusion) 

Look, how is a kid today supposed to be anything but woke for example? They literally never see anything else, it is just the norm for them.  It is like asking boomer's to be race realists. It is Verbotem.


----------



## celebrityskin (Oct 25, 2021)

dirtydeanna96 said:


> 2011, the Arab spring


There are wokes in the Arab world sure, but they're either extremely online or very pick-and-choose with their activism.
How would this impact the West?


----------



## dirtydeanna96 (Oct 28, 2021)

celebrityskin said:


> There are wokes in the Arab world sure, but they're either extremely online or very pick-and-choose with their activism.
> How would this impact the West?


it was a  direct precursor to the occupy movement in 2011, and the use of the "progressive stack", letting gay, black, poor, trans people speak first, and giving their voice more weight than a non-minority. it was the beginning of the end.


----------



## LillWeeb (Oct 29, 2021)

I dont think, normies even know that anything changed in the last decade or so. To them its just politics as usual and nothing culturally changed since 2010 or so. They dont know what a SJW let alone that their ideology is even a thing. The never heard of intersectionality,  think feminism is just woman wanting to go work as an example.  Normies have no concept of LGBTSJNHAKJSXNAKNSXA+ is and that troons are just gay men men who want to wear dresses.


----------



## Moe Szylak (Oct 29, 2021)

Knight of the Rope said:


> A lot of them are just pretending, too; they know that they'll be left alone if they _appear_ to be supporting the mob's nonsense, but behind closed doors it's a different story. They just maintain the facade because a lot of them have actual stakes in society (like jobs, a family, a reputation, etc) that they're not willing to risk with political bullshit, which is understandable.
> 
> One of my favorite personal examples: there's a guy at work that seems like the soyest leftie cuck you'd ever meet, until you get him on a night out in safe company and a few beers down. It was almost heartwarming to realize that he wasn't the damned soul that I thought he was, and that a lot of his apparent beliefs were deliberate slight-of-hand to distract the crazies away from fucking his shit up.



I couldn't work in that kind of environment. I understand that you have to keep right wing opinions to yourself in many work places, but pretending to be a woke soy-sipper just to fit in and be left alone? Fuck that shit.


----------



## Fastest Hand In The East (Oct 29, 2021)

It all begun after this idiot Hitler made "white" and "nationalism" curse words and jews the perpetual victims.


----------



## Moe Szylak (Oct 30, 2021)

Fastest Hand In The East said:


> It all begun after this idiot Hitler made "white" and "nationalism" curse words and jews the perpetual victims.



Even if Hitler had never been born, Jews would have found another way to play the eternal victim. It would most likely have been something referring to their 109 expulsions over the centuries.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Oct 30, 2021)

It started somewhat after atheism+. I think the media op for caitlin jenner is as good a point as any where mainstream wokeness really started. But elements of this kind of wokeness goes all the way back to the late seventies, with all of the anti-white, anti-male, anti-heterosexual rhetoric already established.



UzumakiLeaf said:


> That is what makes it so hard to argue against, you just sound like an asshole and they argue that you are.


*It really isn't hard at all.*

It's just about morality. Each side claiming moral highground. But lemmings aren't well versed in defending their ideas, so all you gotta do is lob a few rhetorical molotovs and they're scrambling for safety. Once you accept that their nice adherence to evil ideology makes their actions evil, it becomes righteous to divorce them from that ideology. Yes, this means you have to hurt nice and sweet people's feelings by saying that they are acting in an evil way and why.

It literally is just hundred sides trying to terrorize each other and whichever gang can extend an umbrella of protection over the most people to safely be in their ideology. At its root that's all culture wars are.


----------



## El Gato Grande (Oct 30, 2021)

Normies became woke post 2015 when the domination of the social and cosmopolitan elite by leftist identity politics reached a critical mass, giving the ideology enough power to dominate mainstream media and wield sufficient cultural authority to pressure most people to do what it wants (either support it or shut up).

It’s the latest stage in the culture war that started in the 60s between right wingers who base their morality on practicality and Christian -based virtues such as temperance and working hard to support one’s family and leftists who base their morality on avoiding harm/pain and personal indulgence.

The right rarely fought the left as hard as the left fought it because modern western right-wingers almost always have a more complex set of principles based on objective fairness and a sense of self preservation/preference which they place before collective politics, while leftists agitate as much as possible without a second thought. Most conservatives are terrified of losing their white collar jobs or offending people in public whereas leftists idolize people who insult their managers before quitting or engage in disruptive/violent protests. This allowed leftists to steadily gain power in institutions, as they were more uncompromising and brave than people on the right.

In addition, modern society makes wokism viable in the first place. If you think about it most conservative virtues (such as in group preference,  supremacy of the family and appreciation for practical capability) are based on practicality in a world without the peace and material abundance we see today, which is why almost every society pre 1960 would be seen as “far-right Nazi evil!”. Use it or lose it.

This leads us to the present day where leftists have taken enough power in academia, the media and the elite at large to usher in their revolution in pop culture. As always right wingers get dopamine highs by screaming their disapproval at each other on increasingly marginalized forums while leftists continue to unapologetically seize power.


----------



## Raoul_Duke (Oct 31, 2021)

El Gato Grande said:


> Normies became woke post 2015 when the domination of the social and cosmopolitan elite by leftist identity politics reached a critical mass, giving the ideology enough power to dominate mainstream media and wield sufficient cultural authority to pressure most people to do what it wants (either support it or shut up).
> 
> It’s the latest stage in the culture war that started in the 60s between right wingers who base their morality on practicality and Christian -based virtues such as temperance and working hard to support one’s family and leftists who base their morality on avoiding harm/pain and personal indulgence.
> 
> ...


Jesus, that expresses so many of my frustrations with today's politics that I really shouldn't have posted, but yet I do.


----------



## David Brown (Oct 31, 2021)

El Gato Grande said:


> Most conservatives are terrified of losing their white collar jobs or offending people in public whereas leftists idolize people who insult their managers before quitting or engage in disruptive/violent protests. This allowed leftists to steadily gain power in institutions, as they were more uncompromising and brave than people on the right.


I think it's less that "leftists" (I mean here the Kaczynskian meaning of leftist) are more "brave" but rather they have institutional and legal support but they also don't have families or decent jobs or property they have to lose. Ironically their status as degenerate deadbeats means they are more willing to engage in risky behavior because the worst thing that will happen to them is maybe a beating and getting throw in a cage with free food, lodging, drugs (prisons have drugs too) while some hook nosed lawyer helps them get parole or probation.


----------



## X Prime (Oct 31, 2021)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> It seems odd to see it play out despite there being ample evidence that it hurts their children and group too, unless damaging whites despite taking the blowback seems worth it. It raises my suspicions a bit to say the least.


There's a simple answer to this: the handouts and social services.

That's what all groups that vote Democrat have in common, the desire for increased government social services.


----------



## LeChampion1992 (Oct 31, 2021)

El Gato Grande said:


> Normies became woke post 2015 when the domination of the social and cosmopolitan elite by leftist identity politics reached a critical mass, giving the ideology enough power to dominate mainstream media and wield sufficient cultural authority to pressure most people to do what it wants (either support it or shut up).
> 
> It’s the latest stage in the culture war that started in the 60s between right wingers who base their morality on practicality and Christian -based virtues such as temperance and working hard to support one’s family and leftists who base their morality on avoiding harm/pain and personal indulgence.
> 
> ...


There is one thing I fear about that. Leftists if they continue to seize power and continue to cross's lines my question is what line causes people to snap if there is one. If the right can't get their word out and no peaceful revolution can occur because the forums right-wingers express their grievences become more and more marginalized and censored isn't the only outcome to s situation like this a violent revolution?


----------



## FunPosting101 (Oct 31, 2021)

I disagree with the central premise of this thread, the average normalfag isn't woke, at most they pretend to be in order to avoid trouble.


----------



## draggs (Oct 31, 2021)

When they learned that acquiescing to woke shit is the path of least resistance for their lives


----------



## El Gato Grande (Oct 31, 2021)

David Brown said:


> I think it's less that "leftists" (I mean here the Kaczynskian meaning of leftist) are more "brave" but rather they have institutional and legal support but they also don't have families or decent jobs or property they have to lose. Ironically their status as degenerate deadbeats means they are more willing to engage in risky behavior because the worst thing that will happen to them is maybe a beating and getting throw in a cage with free food, lodging, drugs (prisons have drugs too) while some hook nosed lawyer helps them get parole or probation.


I agree. Leftism appeals the most to people who have nothing to lose (or think they have nothing to lose) because tearing down society means nothing to them and since they have no personal wealth to be redistributed they only stand to gain. You can see this throughout history where all successful communist revolutions happened in countries with an enormous peasant class that didn’t even own the land they worked on (China, Tsarist Russia, Latin America) while countries with a substantial middle class which had an investment in the current system (America, Western Europe) defeated any attempted communist revolutions and go right-wing when they go authoritarian.

I think a lot of it ties back to hedonism. American (and a lot of western) culture holds the overall belief that you should be allowed to pursue pleasure in any way you desire unless it hurts someone else. This has been the case since before Bunker Hill, but in the contemporary era the goal of harm avoidance (and therefore maximization of hedonism) has expanded to erode traditional values, and finally to impose social taboos (or even laws) designed to prevent harm. What have been the biggest causes of harm in America in recent memory? We’ve never been invaded. We didn’t lose 1/3 of our population to plague rats. All the wars we fought since 1865 have been in far away lands with minimal casualties compared to the other belligerents. The two sources of public duress progressives have to fall back on are historic social justice issues such as racism and gay rights which were serious social conflicts well into the 20th century, and the downsides of modern western economies such as competition and rising costs of living, which they also complain a lot about.

hedonism/pain avoidance also leads them to reject ideas regarding merit and self improvement, as judgement and criticism are painful. Therefore they see inequality as being due to external factors instead of internal ones. If black people are poor, it means society is systematically treating them worse than people who are doing fine, so therefore society must be forced to be nicer to them. Sex is great, so we have to go above and beyond to make sure everyone feels good doing it. I’m not working at McDicks and popping antidepressants like Lifesavers at 30 because I lack self control and self reflection, it’s because I deserve Elon Musk’s money. My pleasure is valid! If nobody was racist everyone would get along!


----------



## Ser Prize (Oct 31, 2021)

LeChampion1992 said:


> There is one thing I fear about that. Leftists if they continue to seize power and continue to cross's lines my question is what line causes people to snap if there is one. If the right can't get their word out and no peaceful revolution can occur because the forums right-wingers express their grievences become more and more marginalized and censored isn't the only outcome to s situation like this a violent revolution?


I'm of the opinion that peaceful revolution is impossible, if only because leftists are so drunk on power.


----------



## Super-Chevy454 (Nov 2, 2021)

It might not be directly linked with that thread but I saw this clip of Carl Sagan who predicted this whole woke mess 25 years ago posted last Summer.


----------

