# My friend joined AntiFa, what do I do?



## AMHOLIO (Oct 1, 2020)

Someone who's been my pal for around 6 years and has helped me through rough times posted a picture of themselves with an Antifa Catboy pin and is undergoing training to become a field medic (20 hour one day course which I imagine to do nothing more than "you bring oranges to the kids on the soccer field").  I love them as a sibling, but their communist roommate, social circle, and corona isolation seems to have gotten to them.  They live a few states away from me so I can't really have an in person talk about it.  What the fuck do I do?

Edit: thanks all so far, I'll respond when I wake up.  Gonna add that they decided to start taking T recently (FtM) so I don't know what will trigger them emotionally or if they even have that yet.

Edit 2: big response post since I like keeping shit organized even in non-cow threads.  Hate digging too much through threads.


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## Juan But Not Forgotten (Oct 1, 2020)




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## Sage In All Fields (Oct 1, 2020)

Why do you need to do anything? I'm friends with nazis and commies, we basically all accept that we'd kill each other on the battlefield. Literally this:


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## Ita Mori (Oct 1, 2020)

You line his chest with buckshot.
Commies aren't people.


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## Meriasek (Oct 1, 2020)

Well, he's not your friend anymore, so whatever. He's gone.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Oct 1, 2020)

Well, I'd start by asking him why he thinks that's a good idea and what he thinks fascism is. Maybe he doesn't understand what he's getting into.


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## Purin Chan (Oct 1, 2020)

If you care about him that much then just talk to him more and build a stronger bond with him. Any retardation from dumb ideologies can easily be remedied by at least having someone close to you to keep you in check. This stuff starts because these people are always in an eco-chamber of yes men.


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## Citation Checking Project (Oct 1, 2020)

First, definitely thread carefully. You probably want to not reveal your powerlevel to them, as cringy as it may sound and however high you think it is, or they think it is. You don't want to shoot yourself in the foot on that front. You should probably play moderate and/or dumb around them. It might seem dishonest, but most people do it to some extent at some point, so get used to it. And feel free to disengage at any point.

Next, you need to know your enemy. Antifa is organised along the bazaar model, so you dont know how far they're willing to go and what exactly they believe because it differs from person to person. Say optimistically if they just intend to be a street medic with antifa esthetics, it's not that big a deal apart from the fact that it can be an on-ramp. OTOH they might end up full-on revolutionary over whatever anti* cause they might pick, and they might be playing dumb as well, so be careful. Yes, politics is all mind games, always has been.

Given this, the first thing you'd do is try to probe them with an semi-open mind. See what exactly they say they want to do, what their root concern is (afraid of orange man? love the BBC? think right-wing militias exclude them and want to form their own?) and what moral axioms they hold. Be prepared for the same treatment, and expect to alienate them; if that happens, you did your best and that's how it is meant to be.

Only after you have intelligence can action come. What you can and should do depends a lot on the facts on the ground, so cross that bridge when you reach it. Note that there are de-radicalisation resources that exist, so don't go try to reinvent the wheel, do what works.

Disclaimer: those are just the rambling of some right-wing euro on the Internet, don't take it too seriously.


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## Save the Loli (Oct 1, 2020)

Enjoy getting blocked by him on social media like with my friend who joined antifa.


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## Bibendum (Oct 1, 2020)

It always amazes me that these people think there's a genuine fascist threat to America, it's positively delusional. Trump has been POTUS for 4 years now -- where are the concentration camps for minorities, the RWDS roaming the streets, the imprisonment of hostile press? Where is the nuclear war we were all but assured would happen due to Trump's "psychological instability?" How could your friend possibly not see that the only mass violence occurring is perpetrated by his own side? 

Moreover, Antifa are pathetically cowardly and unprincipled as far as leftist revolutionaries go. They relatively rarely target police or politicians, and when they do it's mostly unserious posturing, like when they threw that party in Ted Wheeler's lobby or toss molotovs at empty cop cars. They never target the elite beyond bringing the occasional fake guillotine to protests. They routinely get BTFO'd by people like the boomer McClokskeys, chubby teenager Rittenhouse, and the random unfortunate drivers they attempt to detain. They blew their shot at pushing serious, important policing reforms by being retarded and losing almost all public sympathy. And their rioting, looting, and arson have been most harmful to small business owners and the actual working class. Is that really what your friend wants to be associated with? I suggest you explain this to him before he gets played as a useful idiot and eventually arrested. If he wants to fight for social justice without being a total shithead, tell him to volunteer at a food pantry or donate to an innocence project.


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## Tim Buckley (Oct 1, 2020)

Save the Loli said:


> Enjoy getting blocked by him on social media like with my friend who joined antifa.


This, just make an edgy joke online and they'll do all the work burning the bridge and smiting you down with the mighty block button.


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## thick internet digit web (Oct 1, 2020)

give him a hemlock infusion, say it's some new vegan bullshit and he will drink it up even if it tastes funny. Then he'll be dead in a few days.


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## Friend computer (Oct 1, 2020)

Just tell him Antifa doesn't exist.


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## alreadyhome (Oct 1, 2020)

Say goodbye


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## Maskull (Oct 1, 2020)

If you value the relationship you have with this person the foremost thing you should be is a good friend. 

I think a lot of people on this site have seen those that have fallen afoul of Internet communities turned political or even transsexual and from what you've described it sounds to me they've fallen into a hugbox that's driving their decisions. I don't believe you could convince them otherwise right now without them digging their heels in. I think it would be worth talking to other people you know in common to come to an understanding of the broader picture of what's going on in their life and maybe you could as a collective subtly turn them towards a healthier path.


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## Kacho (Oct 1, 2020)

You need to cut contact with this person and report him to the authorities. He is not your friend anymore unless you're looking to be friends with a terrorist.


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## Junkail (Oct 1, 2020)

Kacho said:


> You need to cut contact with this person and report him to the authorities. He is not your friend anymore unless you're looking to be friends with a terrorist.


You can't get someone commited if they haven't done anything yet. All OP said was that he joined Antifa.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (Oct 1, 2020)

Sounds rough. The most serious problem I see with this is AntiFa, like the woke-tarded fucknuggets they are, are *very* identitarian. They can't see people beyond an arbitrarily chosen primary characteristic or trait, which is usually deemed "problematic", stemming from their ideological purity bullshit.

You need to act as a concerned friend, completely apolitically.


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## Inventor of the Telephone (Oct 1, 2020)

> Gonna add that they decided to start taking T recently (FtM) so I don't know what will trigger them emotionally or if they even have that yet.


That seems like it is a much bigger issue than joining a social justice cult. There is probably no way you're going to be able to reach them through that level of mental illness. Their joining a cult is just another typical step on the tranny path.

A better idea might be to find some radfem FTM resources (with the loss of r/gendercritical I'm not sure where you'd go for that) and try to ply that angle instead. If they are just starting it is not too late to save them from the biggest mistake of their life.

Honestly, unless they can be removed from the trantifa echo chambers and lunatic social circle, there is probably no hope for them until they've hit a hard rock bottom. You must kidnap them and wash their brain. (Conversion therapy did nothing wrong.)


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## Troonos (Oct 1, 2020)

Only one thing you can do. Take him out back like Old Yeller and do what needs to be done. He's too far gone. You might save an innocent grandpa from being beaten to death.


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## ScamL Likely (Oct 1, 2020)

Maskull said:


> If you value the relationship you have with this person the foremost thing you should be is a good friend.
> 
> I think a lot of people on this site have seen those that have fallen afoul of Internet communities turned political or even transsexual and from what you've described it sounds to me they've fallen into a hugbox that's driving their decisions. I don't believe you could convince them otherwise right now without them digging their heels in. I think it would be worth talking to other people you know in common to come to an understanding of the broader picture of what's going on in their life and maybe you could as a collective subtly turn them towards a healthier path.


At some point the friendship isn't worth maintaining. Trooning out and joining antifa is roughly equivalent to becoming a full blown crackhead in terms of shit you don't want to deal with, even secondhand. I'd say just cut your losses and remember them as they were rather than as what they've become.


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## Cold Root Beer (Oct 1, 2020)

I'm gonna assume that you've already weighed the options of cutting them out of your life, but for personal reasons have decided against it or it's not a moral option you can choose, so I won't open with the advice of 'walk away'.

Instead, I'll say that you shouldn't argue with them or try to change what they're doing unless they specifically ask you for advice. They're doing this crazy shit of their own choice, and as a friend you have to either accept that or walk away. If you want to keep the relationship between the two of you civil, focus your conversations on not discussing politics or current news. Put it on yourself, like "with all the crazy stress in the world, I don't want to talk about that stuff", or shit, be honest with them (to an extent) and say "I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this stuff, and you're an important friend to me, so I'd rather not talk about that sort of stuff".

If they value you as a friend, they'll respect your wishes, and if not they're either so over the cliff that you can't save them or they don't have nearly as much invested in the relationship as you do.


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## Reverend (Oct 1, 2020)

How can someone join an Idea? I'm very confused at how this works. Can someone tell Jill it's  choo-choo time?


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Oct 1, 2020)

Do nothing, because it's nearly impossible to change somebody else's mind once they made it up.

I guess just maintain your multiple state distance and keep up with him over the phone or whatever.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Oct 1, 2020)

I'd like to be the optimist and say you could talk them out of it, but just based on the fact that you two are states apart and they're living with her commie friends means that it would take an extraordinary amount of work to convert them back to sanity. You would have to neglect yourself and things you need to do in order to get that done, which isn't prudent at all. Just cut your losses and focus on making new friends that won't become LARPing anarchist revolutionaries and remember the friendship (and your friend)for what it was rather than what it is (and who they are now).


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## Kosher Dill (Oct 1, 2020)

I would say just be the bridge to sanity. Be the one person in their life who talks about normal things like their job (does this friend have a job?), family, the movie you just watched - you know something other than LARP nonsense.

But you really have an uphill battle if their entire social circle is full of weirdos.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Oct 1, 2020)

Kill him, bro


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## BingBong (Oct 1, 2020)

fuck the faggot till he loves you.


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## D̥̜̖͗͆̿E̼̰VÔ̦Ȗ̟̹̮͊͋R͊̒ (Oct 1, 2020)

alreadyhome said:


> Say goodbye


Bye


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## ConfederateIrishman (Oct 1, 2020)

If you want to remain his friend just hide your powerlevel and keep up communication with him; Hope for the best but still keep in mind things might go south.
If you have a true friendship it should be able to endure this; Let him be the one to break things off it comes to that, otherwise be his line outside of his bubble and maintain that friendship.
Agreeing to disagree is a very useful tool as well.

t. have a few politically opposed friends that I have still kept over the years

Edit: Also, having ears in completely politically opposed bubbles can be a very useful source of information as well; Comparing what political bubbles all agree on and analyzing what exactly they disagree on is a great way to quickly get the objective gist of a current event.

Oh wait.... he is going MtF? Honestly be far more worried about that, I've seen people pretty much mentally die from that.


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## Wes Bluemarine (Oct 1, 2020)

antifa isn't real how tf did he join it


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## Exigent Circumcisions (Oct 1, 2020)

A little corrective rape never hurt anyone.


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## alreadyhome (Oct 1, 2020)

(______) said:


> Bye



Bye


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## Zero Day Defense (Oct 1, 2020)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> Kill him, bro





BingBong said:


> fuck the faggot till he loves you.


Marry >him, man.

The best you can do for her is let her accidentally give cause to someone's leg amputation because they applied a tourniquet to a leg abrasion like a moron. It'll probably stop her uterus cold so it isn't starting beef with the rest of her organs anymore.

Half-jokes aside, I don't have much faith in the efficacy of logical arguments against strong convictions, especially when it comes to women-- in particular, women who would go as far as to join a group that has quite literally razed cities and brought harm to people while taking HRT. Sensible people don't get involved in either of those things. She's probably trying to fit in the social group she's spending the most time with, and if that's the case, you'd have to exert at least equal social counter-pressure (through another friend group or through escalated intimacy with her) over a comparable amount of time, and you probably can't.


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## bluegenius8585 (Oct 1, 2020)

Inventor of the Telephone said:


> That seems like it is a much bigger issue than joining a social justice cult. There is probably no way you're going to be able to reach them through that level of mental illness. Their joining a cult is just another typical step on the tranny path.
> 
> A better idea might be to find some radfem FTM resources (with the loss of r/gendercritical I'm not sure where you'd go for that) and try to ply that angle instead. If they are just starting it is not too late to save them from the biggest mistake of their life.
> 
> Honestly, unless they can be removed from the trantifa echo chambers and lunatic social circle, there is probably no hope for them until they've hit a hard rock bottom. You must kidnap them and wash their brain. (Conversion therapy did nothing wrong.)



There is r/detrans/ which is meant for actual ex-trans identifying people, and they do have a policy of not allowing soapboxing from radfems to use the members to prove their own points. 

I am sure they could advise you. 

Your friend reminds me a bit of my idiotic younger years


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## Freedom Fries (Oct 1, 2020)

> 20 hour 1 day class
oh that seems like a fantastic learning environment. I know I learn best when I have been cramming for 15 hours on 0 hours of sleep.
The larp is so strong.



ConfederateIrishman said:


> If you want to remain his friend just hide your powerlevel and keep up communication with him; Hope for the best but still keep in mind things might go south.
> If you have a true friendship it should be able to endure this; Let him be the one to break things off it comes to that, otherwise be his line outside of his bubble and maintain that friendship.
> Agreeing to disagree is a very useful tool as well.
> 
> ...


Having a friend who has gone to Antifa indoctrination camp is different than having a friend who has gone to a few of the "mostly peaceful protests"


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## Sperghetti (Oct 1, 2020)

PururinSenpai said:


> If you care about him that much then just talk to him more and build a stronger bond with him. Any retardation from dumb ideologies can easily be remedied by at least having someone close to you to keep you in check. This stuff starts because these people are always in an eco-chamber of yes men.



This is prescisely why both cults and abusive relationships will try to cut you off from your existing social network and immerse you in theirs. When you have connections to people outside the system, especially ones who care about you, you're _much _more likely to start questioning the bullshit at some point and leave.

In regards to the friend, I have to echo @FreeYourDoodies. Don't try to change them, and try to keep topics off current events or politics if you can. Discussing that stuff in-depth with them right now will probably just make them defensive and angry, and reassure them in their mind that you're One Of Them.

People who leave cults and such usually do so because there's a tiny thread of something that they can't rationalize away that nags at them, and when they start pulling on it, the whole thing eventually unravels. Let your friendship be one of those threads.


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## MemeGrey (Oct 1, 2020)

Dox them and laugh at them with us.


Also:
>FtM
>catboy pin

your friend read too much BL and is paying the price.


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## Freedom Fries (Oct 1, 2020)

@Aaa0aaa0 
forgot the most important part, try to steal their T for a cycle for epic gainz


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## Jonah Hill poster (Oct 1, 2020)

It’s the same thing with me, but it’s close friends supporting BLM.
Sure you can’t force them or destroy their life over it, but I’ve noticed most people that join them or Antifa are usually doing this to either look trendy or they’re the type to be undereducated.

Also, don’t believe them when they’re saying “We’re speaking truth to power!” Most of the time, they’re taught to manipulate people by coercing people to accept the truth, no matter how ridiculous it is.


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## Dante Alighieri (Oct 1, 2020)

Pretend to be his friend and gather intelligence to post on the internet, about who is in charge and where they get money from and what their plans are.


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## SIGSEGV (Oct 1, 2020)

My girlfriend has chosen a nickname, out of nowhere, for my penis. She has chosen, for some god forsaken reason, to call it "princess little piddles". I have no idea where she got this name but it's not the most manly nickname, and honestly, I don't have a nickname for it so why should she? Every time she calls it by her nickname I feel ashamed!

I don't want to be rude to her because shes my first girlfriend. am I an asshole if I make her stop calling it that? Or should I just let her keep it up? I'm afraid this waking nightmare may never end.

EDIT: I spoke with my girlfriend regarding this nickname fiasco. She informed me that it was not the princess that was little, it was the piddles that were little. I don't think that makes me feel any better tho.

I offered another nickname, as per suggestion, "princess big and long piddles" but she said that was a mouthful and that princess little piddles wasn't a mouthful.

EDIT2: Ignore this post, we compromised by letting me pick a nickname for her penis, thanks everyone!


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## bluegenius8585 (Oct 1, 2020)

Freedom Fries said:


> > 20 hour 1 day class
> oh that seems like a fantastic learning environment. I know I learn best when I have been cramming for 15 hours on 0 hours of sleep.
> The larp is so strong.
> 
> ...



I wonder with that little FA training in one go without sleep they would be more of a danger to AFA than the rubber bullets


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## AMHOLIO (Oct 1, 2020)

SageInAllFields said:


> Why do you need to do anything? I'm friends with nazis and commies, we basically all accept that we'd kill each other on the battlefield. Literally this:


Perhaps I should say they also got more social justicy the past few years, to the point he's critiquing video games for not being good mental health representation. Like I feel like they're getting to the point they might cut me out if I play Postal: Brain Damage even though I'm a bipolar mothefucker myself.



PururinSenpai said:


> If you care about him that much then just talk to him more and build a stronger bond with him. Any retardation from dumb ideologies can easily be remedied by at least having someone close to you to keep you in check. This stuff starts because these people are always in an eco-chamber of yes men.


Honestly I hope this is the case.  They're a very anxious person and were really afraid to get called out over things online.  They have confidence, but social pressure really does get to them.



Citation Checking Project said:


> Note that there are de-radicalisation resources that exist, so don't go try to reinvent the wheel, do what works.


...that might be a good idea, I should check that out even if I don't do anything with my friend.  The more you know against radicalization, the better.  Extremist are the bane of politics.  Thank you eurocuck. 



Bibendum said:


> If he wants to fight for social justice without being a total shithead, tell him to volunteer at a food pantry or donate to an innocence project.


Honestly.  At least they're larping as a medic.   Next time I call them I'll see if I can make a nice suggestion or two - they're a very big bleeding heart.



Maskull said:


> I think a lot of people on this site have seen those that have fallen afoul of Internet communities turned political or even transsexual and from what you've described it sounds to me they've fallen into a hugbox that's driving their decisions. I don't believe you could convince them otherwise right now without them digging their heels in. I think it would be worth talking to other people you know in common to come to an understanding of the broader picture of what's going on in their life and maybe you could as a collective subtly turn them towards a healthier path.



That's what I'm worried about too: dug in heels.  I might actually call their mom - she's a sweet lady who's very supportive and they have a good relationship but aren't always on the same page politically, so it'd be interesting to hear what she says.



Boris Blank's glass eye said:


> Sounds rough. The most serious problem I see with this is AntiFa, like the woke-tarded fucknuggets they are, are *very* identitarian. They can't see people beyond an arbitrarily chosen primary characteristic or trait, which is usually deemed "problematic", stemming from their ideological purity bullshit.
> 
> You need to act as a concerned friend, completely apolitically.


I'm worried how to navigate the conversation in case they get really political.  I got some good pointers from here at least.   They know I browse kiwifarms to keep abreast of internet drama and am more lax on left leaning issues (I'm left but pro gun and a few other stuff) than them so I ain't sure what they think of me at the moment.   Thanks man, need to hear that.



Inventor of the Telephone said:


> That seems like it is a much bigger issue than joining a social justice cult. There is probably no way you're going to be able to reach them through that level of mental illness. Their joining a cult is just another typical step on the tranny path.
> 
> A better idea might be to find some radfem FTM resources (with the loss of r/gendercritical I'm not sure where you'd go for that) and try to ply that angle instead. If they are just starting it is not too late to save them from the biggest mistake of their life.
> 
> Honestly, unless they can be removed from the trantifa echo chambers and lunatic social circle, there is probably no hope for them until they've hit a hard rock bottom. You must kidnap them and wash their brain. (Conversion therapy did nothing wrong.)



I think it's bigger than that too, but when you're taken in by trans ideology, there's a high chance of saying "fuck you if you don't support me", especially because some of the people they hang out with are fucking annoying with that to put it politely.  I wish I could get them out of their current city, they have a degree in game design (and is one of the reasons why they're in such trans heavy circles) but live in a place that doesn't really have as much of a scene as others.  I think that one of the problems right now is that they're working at a coffee shop and along with corona, seem to feel rather unfufilled in life purpose. 

Fortunately, r/detrans exist like another poster suggested and so does some good links on the Trans threads.  Maybe those will help, hopefully.  Damn dirty troontifa.



ScamL Likely said:


> At some point the friendship isn't worth maintaining. Trooning out and joining antifa is roughly equivalent to becoming a full blown crackhead in terms of shit you don't want to deal with, even secondhand. I'd say just cut your losses and remember them as they were rather than as what they've become.


That was my first thought.  We've had such a strong friendship in the past that after the inital "WELP" I'm still leaning towards keeping somewhat in contact with them - it's hard to stop being involved with someone you love.   My uncle was saying we only get to be with people for a limited amount of time - some years, some minutes, some until death - and I have to come to peace with that and make the most of it.  Good sage advice, it's just hard to implement right now.  I'm still in a strange sort of grief. 



FreeYourDoodies said:


> I'm gonna assume that you've already weighed the options of cutting them out of your life, but for personal reasons have decided against it or it's not a moral option you can choose, so I won't open with the advice of 'walk away'.
> 
> Instead, I'll say that you shouldn't argue with them or try to change what they're doing unless they specifically ask you for advice. They're doing this crazy shit of their own choice, and as a friend you have to either accept that or walk away. If you want to keep the relationship between the two of you civil, focus your conversations on not discussing politics or current news. Put it on yourself, like "with all the crazy stress in the world, I don't want to talk about that stuff", or shit, be honest with them (to an extent) and say "I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this stuff, and you're an important friend to me, so I'd rather not talk about that sort of stuff".
> 
> If they value you as a friend, they'll respect your wishes, and if not they're either so over the cliff that you can't save them or they don't have nearly as much invested in the relationship as you do.


Thanks.  Walking away might be the best thing to do for myself, but I really do love them as a sibling.  They came to emergency visit me when my mother passed and helped me for five days.  We laughed and giggled every time we met up in person, and usually had the same thoughts on things we liked and supported each other well.  It's hard to break it off when you build up such a bond. 

That might be the best course of action if I still connect with them on the level we've always had.  They understand I'm an anxious bitch as well so I can use that to help stave off ramblings (I hope - they might have taken a hit of the dumb bitch "YOU HAVE TO BE INFORMED ABOUT THIS" juice, so I'll see). 

The last bit hurts but it's what I need to hear.  You're good, bro.



Coh said:


> I'd like to be the optimist and say you could talk them out of it, but just based on the fact that you two are states apart and they're living with her commie friends means that it would take an extraordinary amount of work to convert them back to sanity. You would have to neglect yourself and things you need to do in order to get that done, which isn't prudent at all. Just cut your losses and focus on making new friends that won't become LARPing anarchist revolutionaries and remember the friendship (and your friend)for what it was rather than what it is (and who they are now).



It's strange to build a grave for someone still living.  A dead name really is the name of a dead person sometimes - people can change hard.  It's not the first grave I built for a living friend, but it's the most depressing - they're so smart and loving yet... yeah. 



Kosher Dill said:


> I would say just be the bridge to sanity. Be the one person in their life who talks about normal things like their job (does this friend have a job?), family, the movie you just watched - you know something other than LARP nonsense.
> 
> But you really have an uphill battle if their entire social circle is full of weirdos.


They do, fortunately: it's at a coffee shop.  They're having a weird time since they have their own medical issues and corona stresses them out so I don't know if that will help or hinder their mental state.  They also made comments comparing themselves to their coworkers on transitioning stuff, like how their coworkers are so fashionable yet they show up in stuff hiding the dysphoria ™.  I'm worried about them always rotating back to LBGT issues, but other commenters pointed out how I don't have to keep putting up with it if that happens.
And unfortunately yes.  Fucking indie games is plauged by troons and pretentious assholes, sometimes both.  Seems like they do have some good friends with multiple interest and good support instead of coom brained idiots at least.



Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> Kill him, bro


Bruh I'm a fucking dipshit who doesn't own a gun or even live in the same state as them, I'd leave a trail of paperwork behind.  Besides, I don't want to make their mom cry, love her.



ConfederateIrishman said:


> If you want to remain his friend just hide your powerlevel and keep up communication with him; Hope for the best but still keep in mind things might go south.
> If you have a true friendship it should be able to endure this; Let him be the one to break things off it comes to that, otherwise be his line outside of his bubble and maintain that friendship.
> Agreeing to disagree is a very useful tool as well.
> 
> ...


I hope I can contain my tard rage at far left political issues (I'm a left leaning fuck who's really fucking embarrased by the past 4 years of democratic retardation and circlejerking) if I do, I hate for them to cut me off for being snippy.  I hope they aren't "us vs them" yet.  They're a smart cookie and listened to my side in the past, but , antifa and trans hugboxes do some shit to people.

Wrong way - FtM, but I get you.  Fun fact: if you haven't noticed, I've mostly used they/them for my friend.  It's because I'm a cuck and they identify as *nonbianary, and are taking testosterone to become more "gender neutral".  *In the past they've told me they wanted the voice deepening effects of T but not like the balding or body hair and that's why they didn't go on it.  I wonder what changed?  I'm worried their identity is too maliable at this time of high stress and are using transitioning as an escape from a general dislike of where they are at right now.  God, I don't even know if they have a psych or therapist where they're at right now or if they're doing it as "informed consent".  If so, I might faint like an old southern belle. 


Rubbermaid Eater said:


> antifa isn't real how tf did he join it


I heard all you have to do is get a pin and start larping as a revolutionary and  you're part of Dumbledore's Army!



Exigent Circumcisions said:


> A little corrective rape never hurt anyone.


My icon may be a wonderful man, but damn bitch I ain't got the dick to do it myself, born dickless and testosteroneless 



Zero Day Defense said:


> Half-jokes aside, I don't have much faith in the efficacy of logical arguments against strong convictions, especially when it comes to women-- in particular, women who would go as far as to join a group that has quite literally razed cities and brought harm to people while taking HRT. Sensible people don't get involved in either of those things. She's probably trying to fit in the social group she's spending the most time with, and if that's the case, you'd have to exert at least equal social counter-pressure (through another friend group or through escalated intimacy with her) over a comparable amount of time, and you probably can't.


As a vagina wielder myself I can confirm that.  People led by their emotions gennerally go balls deep with their ideology and us lasses tend to be more emotional by nature (obviously there's lots of rad men too but yeah).

Yeah, I unfortunately can't.  I'm one friend in a different state out of all their others.  It blows, man.  



Sperghetti said:


> This is prescisely why both cults and abusive relationships will try to cut you off from your existing social network and immerse you in theirs. When you have connections to people outside the system, especially ones who care about you, you're _much _more likely to start questioning the bullshit at some point and leave.
> 
> In regards to the friend, I have to echo @FreeYourDoodies. Don't try to change them, and try to keep topics off current events or politics if you can. Discussing that stuff in-depth with them right now will probably just make them defensive and angry, and reassure them in their mind that you're One Of Them.
> 
> People who leave cults and such usually do so because there's a tiny thread of something that they can't rationalize away that nags at them, and when they start pulling on it, the whole thing eventually unravels. Let your friendship be one of those threads.



That's also a reason I'm hesitant as fuck to leave them as a friend: if within the five years of taking T they have super regrets, I want to be the first bitch to support them on detransitioning because holy hell can some trans people get vicious to people who leave the cult (and of course antifa as well).  We're doing such a disservice to our young people by being more lax with our transitioning vetting, the number of detransers is a testimate to that. 

I'll see if I can: like others on the farms, I'm a contradictonary and devil's advocate kind of person.  I've always rubbed against the grain, even with friends.  It'll be a testimate to my patience if I can reassure them I'm part of their hive or support it.

I really do want that, thanks man.  It might be impossible if I say something wrong, but even if I do, I want to stress that they're my brother and even though they're doing some dumb shit I don't agree with, they can always come back to me if they change their mind. 



DarkWeenix said:


> Dox them and laugh at them with us.
> 
> 
> Also:
> ...



Nah, they haven't pissed me off or done something asstarded yet.  I'd consider doxing their commie roommate after she said "lol people getting mad over private property when the concept of private property is a capitalist construct" about people's fucking businesses being burned down during the riots (goddamn glad I ain't in the same state because I would have thrown her fucking phone she tweeted with across the room and said "lol private property dun exists"), but again she's not doing anything funny and I still love my friend too much to do so.  Also, basically.    They're less coomer brained and more relationship and feels brained since they're asexual (I know people don't believe in it but they've broken up relationships over not wanting sex - no sexual harrassment past funny enough, just genuine "not for me").



Freedom Fries said:


> @Aaa0aaa0
> forgot the most important part, try to steal their T for a cycle for epic gainz


I post on Kiwi Farms, do you really think I lift bro?



SIGSEGV said:


> My girlfriend has chosen a nickname, out of nowhere, for my penis. She has chosen, for some god forsaken reason, to call it "princess little piddles". I have no idea where she got this name but it's not the most manly nickname, and honestly, I don't have a nickname for it so why should she? Every time she calls it by her nickname I feel ashamed!
> 
> I don't want to be rude to her because shes my first girlfriend. am I an asshole if I make her stop calling it that? Or should I just let her keep it up? I'm afraid this waking nightmare may never end.
> 
> ...


God I fucking needed this.  This is exactly why I post shit to the farms.  Thanks  



DanteAlighieri said:


> Pretend to be his friend and gather intelligence to post on the internet, about who is in charge and where they get money from and what their plans are.


I love you and love your hatred of commies, but I'm lazy and it would require a lot of work across state.  Plus if they start talking deep tankie points at me unironcially I will lose my shit in honor of my Polish immigrant friends who escaped communism (and because it presses my tard rage button).  If something completely fucking stupid happens I'll drop a line to one of the more experienced doxers on this site and let them work their hoodoo that they do so well.

Edit: Forgot to say thank you to all you fags so far who've commented with shitpost and advice, I really do just need some people to talk about this nonsense with.  Thanks for keeping me grounded


----------



## Sage In All Fields (Oct 1, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> Perhaps I should say they also got more social justicy the past few years, to the point he's critiquing video games for not being good mental health representation. Like I feel like they're getting to the point they might cut me out if I play Postal: Brain Damage even though I'm a bipolar mothefucker myself.


I just debate those sorts of people until they stop being retards or abandon me. I don't need that kind of toxicity in my life.


----------



## Freedom Fries (Oct 1, 2020)

bluegenius8585 said:


> I wonder with that little FA training in one go without sleep they would be more of a danger to AFA than the rubber bullets


IIRC most first aid classes only take like a weekend. At the end of the day it's more about giving someone the confidence to to yell at an individual person to call an ambulance, perform CPR, use an AED, and put compression on wounds.

It isn't super complicated since you aren't really doing much. The only part that really requires much in the way of finesse is getting someone onto a backboard without making whatever injury they have (much) worse, especially if they're in an odd position like the bottom of a pool or car seat. Maybe tying a sling correctly could use some practice. Everything else on adults can basically be summed up as do it harder than you thought you should: you probably will break a rib if you're doing it right and compression is supposed to be uncomfortable in an emergency situation. I could be wrong, but I don't think basic first aid courses actually teach you to strap people to a backboard though. 

EMT training on the other hand takes like a month or 2 of concentrated class, but it's obvious the Antifa "medics" are not EMTs


----------



## Red Hood (Oct 1, 2020)

Just start laughing your ass off whenever he's around


----------



## Exigent Circumcisions (Oct 1, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> My icon may be a wonderful man, but damn bitch I ain't got the dick to do it myself, born dickless and testosteroneless


Rape is like, a state of mind, man. Also: broom handles exist for a reason.


----------



## Freedom Fries (Oct 1, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> God, I don't even know if they have a psych or therapist where they're at right now or if they're doing it as "informed consent".


This is something that always throws me for a loop. Like could I go in to my primary care physician at my yearly physical and ask him for some Test because I feel like it?

Feeling kinda small today bro. I need it. I'm informed consenting. I know guys over like 45 can basically pay for this service at expensive hormonal replacement / youth rejuvination doc boxes, but they still have to at least pretend to get a script and pay a bunch.


Aaa0aaa0 said:


> I post on Kiwi Farms, do you really think I lift bro?


Does your friend or is she just trying to look a certain way without doing any of the hard work? People who think "supps" are gonna replace hard work piss me off. At least I can be consoled by the fact that they never do.

It baffles me that women who want to be a bit more boyish almost never just do the things men do like drink beer, lift weights, eat properly (protein/macro wise), dress like a bro, and stop using makeup.

Maybe encourage them to exercise. It does a lot for mental health and negative feelings. Helps with isolation too since you have to get out and gym people are friendly and perhaps more importantly relatively normal ideologically


----------



## Boris Blank's glass eye (Oct 1, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> I'm worried how to navigate the conversation in case they get really political. I got some good pointers from here at least. They know I browse kiwifarms to keep abreast of internet drama and am more lax on left leaning issues (I'm left but pro gun and a few other stuff) than them so I ain't sure what they think of me at the moment.  Thanks man, need to hear that.


I was told the best way to engage in politics apolitically is parochialism in the positive sense, you know, "think globally, act locally". Granted, I too am a Eurocuck, but the same lessons could apply. You can still tell your friend how the vicious cycle of antifa vs whatever nazis is going to fuck up local economies and communities, and how it's compounded by the coof and the election year retardation. Woketards are supposed to be big into intersectionality, and this would be a macro-scale example of that. Or how antifa using fireworks in their retarded riots is extremely dangerous when wildfires rage all over the pacific northwest and California. You can tell them the insurance argument is bullshit, because insurance companies are bullshit themselves - the payout might take a long time to arrive, how all the payouts raise premiums for regular folk, how it's meaningless when a locally indispensable business goes up in flames, because there's enormous damage beyond simple material costs.

You could also point out Marx himself was pro-gun, and how owning firearms will protect the proletariat from the bourgouisie and shit - even if in this example your friend would be much more like a lumpen.

TL;DR just stay out of sectarian and identitarian matters, no party politics at all.

RE:KF, Kiwi Farms really seems to be a giant bogeyman among woketards. You could explain to them there are lots of lefties on here, threads on right-wing neonazis and incels, and threads lacking any political slant. Anyone could and should hate Onision regardless of party affiliation.


----------



## AMHOLIO (Oct 1, 2020)

The Shadow said:


> Just start laughing your ass off whenever he's around


tbf this never fails



Freedom Fries said:


> This is something that always throws me for a loop. Like could I go in to my primary care physician at my yearly physical and ask him for some Test because I feel like it?
> 
> Feeling kinda small today bro. I need it. I'm informed consenting. I know guys over like 45 can basically pay for this service at expensive hormonal replacement / youth rejuvination doc boxes, but they still have to at least pretend to get a script and pay a bunch.
> 
> ...


Just inject 1000ccs of botox into my face, get me that "just fuck my shit up" look.  It's ok I'm informed.

I am not sure what they're aiming for.  They do enjoy running a lot at least and like keeping that up to control their anxiety, so at least its something but who the fuck knows.  I'll ask them about it later.  They're also taking care of their face very well, so I don't have to worry about them dying of acne.  




Boris Blank's glass eye said:


> I was told the best way to engage in politics apolitically is parochialism in the positive sense, you know, "think globally, act locally". Granted, I too am a Eurocuck, but the same lessons could apply. You can still tell your friend how the vicious cycle of antifa vs whatever nazis is going to fuck up local economies and communities, and how it's compounded by the coof and the election year retardation. Woketards are supposed to be big into intersectionality, and this would be a macro-scale example of that. Or how antifa using fireworks in their retarded riots is extremely dangerous when wildfires rage all over the pacific northwest and California. You can tell them the insurance argument is bullshit, because insurance companies are bullshit themselves - the payout might take a long time to arrive, how all the payouts raise premiums for regular folk, how it's meaningless when a locally indispensable business goes up in flames, because there's enormous damage beyond simple material costs.
> 
> You could also point out Marx himself was pro-gun, and how owning firearms will protect the proletariat from the bourgouisie and shit - even if in this example your friend would be much more like a lumpen.
> 
> ...


I'm always a slut for think globally act locally, I get what you're saying.  I probably will lean the conversation in that direction as much as possible but we might end up going the opposite if they bring it there.  I'll try at least!

  I think if I'm going to point out flaws in Marx it would probably be his antisemitism since that's the big bad discrimination.  They probably still dislike guns but I can't tell with antifa since you go far enough left you get to a different kind of gun nut.

Thank you eurocuck, you're a good lad and a good poster.  

And I'll see if they'll listen - they know I'm mostly here for art and game design drama so hopefully.


----------



## Bibendum (Oct 1, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> I think that one of the problems right now is that they're working at a coffee shop and along with corona, seem to feel rather unfufilled in life purpose.



This plus the trantifa social circle are exactly why this is happening. Your friend is succumbing to ennui and is imbibing the gender+political propaganda of her social circle to fill the void. Like someone else said, encourage her to exercise or pick up a new hobby, something healthy to take her mind off the gender-political bullshit. I definitely think my prior suggestion of volunteering ("for social justice") would be good for her -- helping others, particularly those in situations of genuine need, can help her to become less self-centered and navel-gazing, and it'll give her the sense of fulfillment that she isn't getting from her job. Fulfilled people are way less susceptible to indoctrination, and if she directs her urge to enact social change toward positive goals (feeding the hungry, caring for animals, freeing the innocent, etc), she'll be less likely to feel the need to LARP as an insurrectionist.


----------



## Rich Evans Apologist (Oct 1, 2020)

There's any number of things, feels like, which might come into play with this. My own experience with something similar was getting gaslit because I wouldn't sign off on the idea of sex and gender being wholly divorced concepts - but I'm not rhetorically retarded (at least, I think). The problem was not that I was going after this individual for their choices; to the contrary, I told them explicitly that if they felt better behaving as they did, if it made their life less stressful and they felt they could better reach their potential - then they should wholly go for it regardless of what anyone else thinks, and beef up their mental resilience so as to not be phased by what anyone else thinks. The problem which became unforgivable for them was that I would not concede on that point - the fact that I believed that gender is informed by sex was deal-breaking.

I also came to find through this exchange that the most logical approach, of saying "I'm simply not going to agree with your beliefs, and yours are going to compel you to ostracize me. I will accept this, much as I dislike it - but if you should ever change your mind on that decision, I will always have an ear" -- well, their behavior put me off to it. I found I -didn't- want to have an ear if they ever shifted, because I don't really care to reconcile with someone who without hesitation would begin railing off all sorts of accusations, emotional guilt-tripping, and gaslighting over a rather mild question of belief.

To be honest, I don't know that you can really break through the brainwashing apparatus they're surrounded by. But if you -do- engage with them, make sure that you are mentally steeled, prepared, and don't react emotionally. I didn't freak out in my own example, but I found by the end that I was unconcerned with the future direction of their life.


----------



## behavioral swamp thang (Oct 2, 2020)

Look into his chapter.  Some of them seem like batshit anarchists, some are about gun handling and safety.  You'll be able to tell what kind of radical he is based off his chapter.  If he doesnt have a chapter, who cares, he's just going with the ebb and flow of living in a polarized internet world


----------



## AMHOLIO (Oct 2, 2020)

Bibendum said:


> This plus the trantifa social circle are exactly why this is happening. Your friend is succumbing to ennui and is imbibing the gender+political propaganda of her social circle to fill the void. Like someone else said, encourage her to exercise or pick up a new hobby, something healthy to take her mind off the gender-political bullshit. I definitely think my prior suggestion of volunteering ("for social justice") would be good for her -- helping others, particularly those in situations of genuine need, can help her to become less self-centered and navel-gazing, and it'll give her the sense of fulfillment that she isn't getting from her job. Fulfilled people are way less susceptible to indoctrination, and if she directs her urge to enact social change toward positive goals (feeding the hungry, caring for animals, freeing the innocent, etc), she'll be less likely to feel the need to LARP as an insurrectionist.



"freeing the innocent" they probably thinks antifa is down with that ugh 
I mostly agree with you only because I don't have a full grasp of their mental state where maybe another factor is bothering them, but you seem close to the money.

I'll see what I can do: until they move out of their current environment or at least away from the clowns encouraging them to be a part of it, it's gonna be an uphill battle.  Baby steps, baby steps.  

They have an element of obssesive compulsive to them like a lot of those suffering from anxiety.  I remember reading something about a correlation between that and transitioning in the trans social media sideshow iirc.  That plus adhd I wonder how it affects their perception of their own gender.   



Rich Evans Apologist said:


> There's any number of things, feels like, which might come into play with this. My own experience with something similar was getting gaslit because I wouldn't sign off on the idea of sex and gender being wholly divorced concepts - but I'm not rhetorically retarded (at least, I think). The problem was not that I was going after this individual for their choices; to the contrary, I told them explicitly that if they felt better behaving as they did, if it made their life less stressful and they felt they could better reach their potential - then they should wholly go for it regardless of what anyone else thinks, and beef up their mental resilience so as to not be phased by what anyone else thinks. The problem which became unforgivable for them was that I would not concede on that point - the fact that I believed that gender is informed by sex was deal-breaking.
> 
> I also came to find through this exchange that the most logical approach, of saying "I'm simply not going to agree with your beliefs, and yours are going to compel you to ostracize me. I will accept this, much as I dislike it - but if you should ever change your mind on that decision, I will always have an ear" -- well, their behavior put me off to it. I found I -didn't- want to have an ear if they ever shifted, because I don't really care to reconcile with someone who without hesitation would begin railing off all sorts of accusations, emotional guilt-tripping, and gaslighting over a rather mild question of belief.
> 
> To be honest, I don't know that you can really break through the brainwashing apparatus they're surrounded by. But if you -do- engage with them, make sure that you are mentally steeled, prepared, and don't react emotionally. I didn't freak out in my own example, but I found by the end that I was unconcerned with the future direction of their life.


"but I'm not rhetorically retarded (at least, I think)" - I've read your post, aside from posting on this forum I can back this up  But man, you poor thing, that stings like hell.    

For me it _might_ be a good thing to get bitchslapped by them if they act like this: that way I can let the whole thing go.  I'm a sentimental bitch so I'll probably forgive them in a year, and by that time I'll be at least mildly concerned again.  Not gonna lie, I'll probably straight up cry in grief if they disown me on the spot for not being 100% supportive, but alas, crying helps you get over things faster (and biology with crying being more likely with true and honest laydees).  It might sound like I'm not mentally prepared, but I got a lot of coping skills up my sleeve plus a good network of intelligent human beings IRL who understand me so I'll bounce back quock.  Hopefully I won't become too apathetic until like 5 years later with no change in site for them, but yeah.  You got me, I'm taking your words of advice and caution.  Thank you very much for being honest and for lending some good advice  (also Rich Evans did nothing wrong)



behavioral swamp thang said:


> Look into his chapter.  Some of them seem like batshit anarchists, some are about gun handling and safety.  You'll be able to tell what kind of radical he is based off his chapter.  If he doesnt have a chapter, who cares, he's just going with the ebb and flow of living in a polarized internet world


What's the best way to do that you think? I'm pretty sure a lot went slightly incognito when they declared em a terrorist group.  Should I peruse facebook or twitter or something else? 

Thanks again so far everyone, this shit is a great help.  This crowed sourced autism has done a lot to help me get more grounded and stable.


----------



## Harbinger of Kali Yuga (Oct 2, 2020)

This tells me most of his immediate social group thinks likewise.  Unless you can offer him a circle of friends and connections that look down on this shit, nothing only you say will undo his or her desire to find community.  They're young and want a cause and belonging, it's little different from joining a street gang.

Chances are there is nothing you can do and you will probably end up hurt because of this.  These people are irredeemable, petty, and more than happy to sacrifice friendships for the illusion of personal influence.  Best thing you can do is rent a helicopter and throw him out of it.


----------



## AMHOLIO (Oct 2, 2020)

Harbinger of Kali Yuga said:


> This tells me most of his immediate social group thinks likewise.  Unless you can offer him a circle of friends and connections that look down on this shit, nothing only you say will undo his or her desire to find community.  They're young and want a cause and belonging, it's little different from joining a street gang.
> 
> Chances are there is nothing you can do and you will probably end up hurt because of this.  These people are irredeemable, petty, and more than happy to sacrifice friendships for the illusion of personal influence.  Best thing you can do is rent a helicopter and throw him out of it.


God I wish I could offer them one.  Really is too late for them at the moment.  Almost makes me wished they discovered mormonism rather than this.  

I don't think they themselves are that bad, I think they're more likely to get hurt than hurting others.  Like, they would trust someone and then get blamed for something as a fall guy.  We'll see what happens with hormones since T can give you emotional highs and lows and my friend is already pretty impulsive, so yeah, ugh.  I feel like this saga will end with them regretting everything or them chugging on pretending nothing is wrong and then they're completely brainwashed.  There ain't no good end, just one less sucky than the other.  Hell, maybe they don't regret T but regret antifa.

Anyways donate to my gofundme for hellicopter rides i promise its for that and i won't spend the gibs on super mario brothers lego sets instead no sir


----------



## Harbinger of Kali Yuga (Oct 2, 2020)

Ever read the book, "Of Mice and Men"?


----------



## bot_for_hire (Oct 2, 2020)

Snitch about your friends' private and social life and what worries you about her to your friends' parents. They will have a good talk within the family.

You can also buy your friend this book:
*Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters*

Maybe she'll read it or maybe she won't, but at least its mere presence may sow seeds of doubt in her mind.


----------



## Kosher Dill (Oct 2, 2020)

behavioral swamp thang said:


> Look into his chapter. Some of them seem like batshit anarchists, some are about gun handling and safety.


Two words right from the OP: "Antifa Catboy"


----------



## BOONES (Oct 2, 2020)

Two lead "pills" should do the trick.


----------



## Rich Evans Apologist (Oct 2, 2020)

bot_for_hire said:


> Snitch about your friends' private and social life and what worries you about her to your friends' parents. They will have a good talk within the family.
> 
> You can also buy your friend this book:
> *Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters*
> ...



Both people who go into antifa and people who transition don't tend to have the best relationships with their family, and the overt goal of these cells is to snip off one's connections to their old self wholesale. The idea of getting their folks involved only obliquely has a chance if they've yet to be fully indoctrinated, and it runs the risk of speeding up the process. So soon as they have a single struggle session or intense self-critique (I forget the exact name of the ritual), they're already being re-programmed in a mental sense. This practice is pretty well-established and well-rehearsed, which is part of why these trends exist.

Offering up anything that is overtly anti-trans will get them immediately on the defense. You can really only bring something like that up if they themselves are already having doubt, as you might otherwise steel their resolve - "if even my good friend doesn't understand, then this society really is rotten." By contrast, learning the talking points -personally- of a book like that, and figuring out how to lead the question -- that is, figuring out how to get them to ask the question on their own, that can be worthwhile. They'll obviously ask it of their fairweather confidants - but the best answers the radicals can provide to some of these questions don't tend to be very satisfying in the long-run. 

The complete shock and awe that I can recall from my college days, when some yuppie bi chick I knew realized that a guy who was bi and crossdressed was sexually harassing, mentally berating, and all around just a cunt -- she had trouble reconciling "they are LGBT" with "they are not a good person." I believe they were 21 at the time, too - 21, and their worldview was so complicated as "LGBT = GOOD," and that's all it took to crack it. This one, of course, had volunteered at the local anarchist bookstore/staging ground. The radicals go out of their way to target impressionable, inexperienced people who have just never had to ask any questions.


----------



## bot_for_hire (Oct 2, 2020)

Rich Evans Apologist said:


> Offering up anything that is overtly anti-trans will get them immediately on the defense. You can really only bring something like that up if they themselves are already having doubt, as you might otherwise steel their resolve - "if even my good friend doesn't understand, then this society really is rotten." By contrast, learning the talking points -personally- of a book like that, and figuring out how to lead the question -- that is, figuring out how to get them to ask the question on their own, that can be worthwhile. They'll obviously ask it of their fairweather confidants - but the best answers the radicals can provide to some of these questions don't tend to be very satisfying in the long-run.


 → I would also like to add that former trans people, like this user, could offer advice on how to approach such a person. ←


Spoiler: highlight






bluegenius8585 said:


> I used to identify as trans, I realise now what a complete load of nonsense it really is and how others took advantage of my vulnerability. I've gone from troon to gender critical






'Trans' is a cult and the same methods as when 'de-culting' someone should probably be used. That is, not confronting them directly, but pointing out small idiocies, inconsistencies in the 'doctrine'.


----------



## AMHOLIO (Oct 2, 2020)

Harbinger of Kali Yuga said:


> Ever read the book, "Of Mice and Men"?


*RDR2 Voice* LENNY....
Please, I can't mercy kill or call the police on her until they do something, like in the book.  The best I can do is mercy kill my attachment to her.


bot_for_hire said:


> Snitch about your friends' private and social life and what worries you about her to your friends' parents. They will have a good talk within the family.
> 
> You can also buy your friend this book:
> *Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters*
> ...


I'll probably order that book for myself instead of my friend for what Rich Evans Apologist outlined below.  I think their parents took her coming out well, but I'm not sure if they know her Antifa activites.  It would be a good idea to call them anyway for the sake of it, see what their thoughts are on their child.  They're liberal Californians, but old concerned parents first and foremost.

I could imagine the bitchfit and panic attack she'd have over twitter if I did order it for her lol.  Probably the best way to get yeeted from her life right now aside from calling her a tranny (as I said I love her as my brother and cant do that to her).



Kosher Dill said:


> Two words right from the OP: "Antifa Catboy"


Muthafucker I wish I could unsee them myself.  



Rich Evans Apologist said:


> Both people who go into antifa and people who transition don't tend to have the best relationships with their family, and the overt goal of these cells is to snip off one's connections to their old self wholesale. The idea of getting their folks involved only obliquely has a chance if they've yet to be fully indoctrinated, and it runs the risk of speeding up the process. So soon as they have a single struggle session or intense self-critique (I forget the exact name of the ritual), they're already being re-programmed in a mental sense. This practice is pretty well-established and well-rehearsed, which is part of why these trends exist.
> 
> Offering up anything that is overtly anti-trans will get them immediately on the defense. You can really only bring something like that up if they themselves are already having doubt, as you might otherwise steel their resolve - "if even my good friend doesn't understand, then this society really is rotten." By contrast, learning the talking points -personally- of a book like that, and figuring out how to lead the question -- that is, figuring out how to get them to ask the question on their own, that can be worthwhile. They'll obviously ask it of their fairweather confidants - but the best answers the radicals can provide to some of these questions don't tend to be very satisfying in the long-run.
> 
> The complete shock and awe that I can recall from my college days, when some yuppie bi chick I knew realized that a guy who was bi and crossdressed was sexually harassing, mentally berating, and all around just a cunt -- she had trouble reconciling "they are LGBT" with "they are not a good person." I believe they were 21 at the time, too - 21, and their worldview was so complicated as "LGBT = GOOD," and that's all it took to crack it. This one, of course, had volunteered at the local anarchist bookstore/staging ground. The radicals go out of their way to target impressionable, inexperienced people who have just never had to ask any questions.


Basically.  Their parents are in another state too so they can't even administer more hands on care, nor would they because they respect that my friend is over 18.

The best part of cults is when they undo themselves with unsatisfactory answers.  Wish more people didn't have the sunk cost fallacy towards them but cults are effective for a reason.   I like the idea of learning the talking points, even if I don't talk her out of anything that will probably help someone else peak trans IRL in my area.  

It's a shame that "LBGT = GOOD" is so prevaliant.  Even my old ass gay uncle will tell you there are some rotten sons of bitches out there and not to use it as a morality compass, but he's an old breed slowly being replaced by the youth with more black and white views fueled by pain.  Perhaps one day we'll get a balance, but until then, sigh.



bot_for_hire said:


> → I would also like to add that former trans people, like this user, could offer advice on how to approach such a person. ←
> 
> 'Trans' is a cult and the same methods as when 'de-culting' someone should probably be used. That is, not confronting them directly, but pointing out small idiocies, inconsistencies in the 'doctrine'.


This I'll definitely be looking into and putting into practice.  Bless our poor detrans users, they're fabulous.  Thanks man, and thanks for the book rec!


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## bot_for_hire (Oct 7, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> I'll probably order that book for myself instead of my friend for what Rich Evans Apologist outlined below.  I think their parents took her coming out well, but I'm not sure if they know her Antifa activites.  It would be a good idea to call them anyway for the sake of it, see what their thoughts are on their child.  They're liberal Californians, but old concerned parents first and foremost.
> 
> I could imagine the bitchfit and panic attack she'd have over twitter if I did order it for her lol.  Probably the best way to get yeeted from her life right now aside from calling her a tranny (as I said I love her as my brother and cant do that to her).


Her parents are your only ally in getting your friend out of the cult. Maybe share the book with them? Or send them these videos:


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## AMHOLIO (Oct 7, 2020)

bot_for_hire said:


> Her parents are your only ally in getting your friend out of the cult. Maybe share the book with them? Or send them these videos:


Nope, her parents accept her using her grandpa's name as her own.  I'm up the creek without a paddle friend.


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## 5t3n0g0ph3r (Oct 7, 2020)

Ask them after the election, "Are you winning, yet?" then laugh at their response.


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## AMHOLIO (Oct 7, 2020)

5t3n0g0ph3r said:


> Ask them after the election, "Are you winning, yet?" then laugh at their response.


Sounds like a good way to make them want to an hero.  Ain't disliking them that much yet.
This also implies I am not a libcuck, but unfortunately I am (Trump getting reelected isn't a big deal for me though, if just because some things I'm fine with and others can hopefully be mitigated later or might surprise me with benefits).


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## Aidan (Oct 7, 2020)

I think you got plenty of talk on the matter to the point where I'd just be repeating things, but good luck and don't feel too bad if things don't work out the way you want, it's certainly not your fault.
I wish there'd be some national epiphany with these lost souls and they look around at their associates and what they're saying and doing and think..."wait.."


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## AMHOLIO (Oct 8, 2020)

Aidan said:


> I think you got plenty of talk on the matter to the point where I'd just be repeating things, but good luck and don't feel too bad if things don't work out the way you want, it's certainly not your fault.
> I wish there'd be some national epiphany with these lost souls and they look around at their associates and what they're saying and doing and think..."wait.."


Thanks man, I really need that encouragement.     I'll make the fabled phonecall to them soon. I'll do my best and have no regrets 
And god, me too.  It might increase the suicide rate, but there will be plenty who'd bounce back and man, what a world it could be


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## Xerxes IX (Oct 9, 2020)

Aaa0aaa0 said:


> Sounds like a good way to make them want to an hero.  Ain't disliking them that much yet.
> This also implies I am not a libcuck, but unfortunately I am (Trump getting reelected isn't a big deal for me though, if just because some things I'm fine with and others can hopefully be mitigated later or might surprise me with benefits).


After the election is when you've really got to come in and try and make inroads with your friend. A Trump victory could very well radicalize them further down the rabbit hole, since there will be leftist accelerationists especially among the Antifa types who will see the election as a reason to "fight" even harder. It's a critical time to be there for them, especially as a counterbalance to the people who know who _will_ want them to go full radical. I remember when Trump won the first time and people in the libcuck/leftist circles around me were shouting down others who wanted to make people feel better instead of having meltdowns and being angry. (kind of like how people now are getting shouted down for saying Covid-19 isn't as awful as expected, how do you like that)

They were there for you, just try and be there for them. But if they don't take to it I also wish that one day people will come to their senses and realize there's more to life than treating political and sociocultural beliefs like it's organized religion, and that that day will be soon.


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## Australianbirdfruit (Oct 10, 2020)

SageInAllFields said:


> Why do you need to do anything? I'm friends with nazis and commies, we basically all accept that we'd kill each other on the battlefield. Literally this:


That's pretty dumb, to put it mildly. Unless you hold values that are approximately as retarded as those that these groups espouse, there is no reason whatsoever to socialize with them. Don't mistake you doing so for being level-headed and sensible about "differing opinions", by the way. It's just dumb. Grow a pair.

As for OP's enquiry, I'd say the same as many others here have already phrased in a far better way, i.e. that you should reach out a hand and let your friend know that you're there for her to talk to. I realize what your releationship means to you, but if things escalate further from here on you might want to consider cutting her off. I'd say that her hands-on participating in the absolute retardation and evil that is Antifa is an enormous red flag as is, though. At any rate, you're an adult, as is she; while some people might want to envision themselves as an empathetic savior in situations like this, the truth of the matter is that you're both mature enough to be held accountable for your choices, at least in relation to the kind of choices that political and extremist affiliation entails. Had she been brainwashed by some cult like Scientology I'd perhaps considered kidnapping and deprogramming if the friendship meant that much to me, but we're talking about your friend being so unbelievably dumb as to joining the likes of Antifa. There is little valid comparison in the amount of stupid in that, I'm afraid. She's 18 years old and therefore of age. It's not your fault that arrested development have taken our part of the world with storm. She seems to be rather unhinged as well, what with the gender issues and whatnot, so I don't imagine that many people would think lesser of you if you decided that you simply can't shoulder that much unbalanced baggage in your life. I certainly wouldn't. In short, be there for her if you manages to come to her senses, and otherwise let her be. She will have to make her own happiness and unhappiness.

This all makes me think of the book American Pastoral, by the way. Coming to grips with that a loved one might be an extremist asshole certainly isn't easy, that's for sure.


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## Sage In All Fields (Oct 10, 2020)

Australianbirdfruit said:


> That's pretty dumb, to put it mildly. Unless you hold values that are approximately as retarded as those that these groups espouse, there is no reason whatsoever to socialize with them. Don't mistake you doing so for being level-headed and sensible about "differing opinions", by the way. It's just dumb. Grow a pair.


I'm not clear on why you think it's dumb. From where I'm standing it doesn't really make much difference who I socialize with, I'll always massively disagree with most people around me.


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## Vesuvius (Oct 10, 2020)

I spent a long time around antifa-lite types a while back. The problem with getting someone out is that they build a network to trap people unhappy with their lives. Everyone who has made the cult comparison is 100% on point. OP, if you really want to extract your friend, you've got your work cut out for you. 



Spoiler: Why it'll be difficult



*Everyone there is deeply unhappy*. Everyone in that group was unemployed or doing part time retail for a couple of hours a week. They all felt unfulfilled and tried to fill that void with shit like transitioning, social advocacy, plotting the revolution, etc. Because they're so deeply unhappy, they believe everyone else who seems happy is either faking it, or too stupid to understand how bad things are in the world. They surround themselves with every single piece of bad news they can find and use it whip each other into a frenzy about how we're about to face Armageddon any day now. It's exhausting, but they feel like it's their duty to keep up with it. Likely, your friend is mentally exhausted from being around this cloud of negativity.

*They're convinced there is nothing they can do to help their position in life.* This is, of course, through no fault of their own. They work to convince everyone else in the group that they too can never better their lot in life, and everyone who has has done so because of "privilege" or whatever. This is especially true if you happen to be POC or LGBT or which ever oppressed minority of the day they want to worship. If you tried to improve yourself, it was actually looked down upon, not explicitly but there was always an air of "oh well don't be surprised if your endeavor fails, you were never meant to succeed because of capitalism".  This ensures the peons will never rise above their station. 

*Their greatest positive personality trait is unconditional tolerance*. Unless you believed in the wrong thing of course. Everyone who was part of the group had the unconditional support of everyone else, and if you ever strayed from the path, everyone was there to scream at you  helpfully remind you of how you're supposed to think. The things I read in that group should horrify any sane person but because everyone was a friend to each other, everyone would support any level of degeneracy anyone else professed to. No one would ever tell someone else they made a poor decision, everything was reacted to with the same faux celebration as something legitimately good. Constant discourse about everyone's lurid pasts dragged out things from just about everyone that most people probably wouldn't want to share. I wouldn't be surprised if your friend's talked about some deeply personal things to their new antifa friends. Things that they probably don't want to get out. 

*They are convinced that whatever they do, it is justified to fight bigotry/capitalism/nazis.* Everything is justified in the quest for their communism utopia. That or it's all fake news. Killing white people is justified for their centuries of colonialism. The shooting at that one Republican Congress baseball game was justified because Republicans are literally killing us right now. Holodomor? Why that is just American propaganda, comrade. Never happened. Stalin and Mao never killed anyone, ever, that wasn't justified. And if you mention how fucked up that is, it's because you have white fragility and are brainwashed by capitalism.

So the world is awful and you're stuck in it. But we're here to support you, and we're on the right side of history. When the revolution happens, where do you want to be?



Showing your powerlevel to your friend will likely just make them retract deeper into their cocoon, but I don't know how deep your relationship is. Maybe it will work. The only people I've seen leave the group were those ousted for wrongthink, those who were abused so much I'm not sure if they didn't kill themselves afterwards, and those who actually ended up improving their lives and left "on good terms". Getting into a relationship with a responsible person who didn't live online seemed to be the cleanest path out. If your friend is a game developer, perhaps encourage them to do a game jam or their own shit. They don't need to live in San Francisco to have a job, especially now with every company going remote. It's a double-edged sword with that industry though, they might just be jumping from one antifa group to another with indie game dev.


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