# Communsim vs facism



## DICKPICSRUS (May 16, 2017)

These ideologies are both pretty terrible in their own right.
If I had to choice I'll have to pick communism mostly because the figure of fascism were lunetics in their own right.


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## millais (May 16, 2017)

fascism bc if i'm going to have to live under an authoritarian regime that denies me basic civil liberties and human rights, I better at least be able to keep most of my stuff


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## Elwood P. Dowd (May 16, 2017)

Depends upon the sort of fascism you're talking about, or how you define it. F'rinstance I've seen Singapore under Lee Kwan Yew described as fascist. Assuming his regime meets the definition (and I'm not fully sure if it does) I think I'd rather live there, or in a regime like it, than in any of the state-socialist regimes that ever existed. Hungary under Admiral Horthy also comes to mind.


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## TrannyLindsayLohan (May 16, 2017)

Fascism. Actually within shouting distance of economic sanity and usually has awesome uniforms.


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## Woodcutting bot (May 16, 2017)

I don't like starving, so probably fash


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## DuskEngine (May 16, 2017)

Elwood P. Dowd said:


> F'rinstance I've seen Singapore under Lee Kwan Yew described as fascist.



You've been talking to some real dumbasses then


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## Sperglord Dante (May 16, 2017)

It's all the same shit. Communism, fascism, national socialism or whatever is just oppressive demagoguery with slightly different flavors of bullshit ideology.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (May 16, 2017)

Communism.


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## Grog (May 16, 2017)

There have been many types of communism and fascism depending on the country where they were applied, for example Germany's National Socialism differed from Francisco Franco's version of fascism: the first sought to slowly replace the existing vales and religion of Germany for a more nationalistic, unified culture, while in Spain fascism took an ultra-catholic form and catholicism was inseparable from the state.

Communism is mostly anti-religious but in Cuba religious organization were at the very least allowed to exist (although they couldn't join the communist party). There's also the difference between what is the "internationalist" vision of communism and other, more nationalistic approaches (North Korea).

Fascism and old communism weren't all that different from a modern perspective, but if I had to choose between the modern version of communism, which is chicken shit that just mutates into Sharia law over time, or fascism, I would choose fascism in a heartbeat.


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## KillaClown1488 (May 16, 2017)

The trouble with this discussion is how poorly "fascism" is defined in modern political discourse. Many people use it to describe politicians who use force to accomplish goals that they personally find disagreeable (Bush is Hitler, Obama's Hitler, Trump is Hitler, etc.). People call Antifa's tactics fascist when, in fact, using political violence to silence your opposition isn't a tactic specific to fascism- communists have also used it quite a lot. In fact, political movements who were neither communist nor fascist have also used violence to disrupt the gatherings of political opponents.

If on the other extreme, you could make the argument that Fascism per se only ever exited in Mussolini's Italy, in the sense that it was the only political party explicitly identifying as Fascist (or _Fascismo) _to actually be in control of government. 

To the end of answering this question in a meaningful way, let's get a more useful definition of what fascism is and how it fits into a greater political picture.

Fascism should be understood as a non-Liberal (notice the capital L there) reaction to leftist social agitation. Leftism (as such) pushes social reorganization from a whiggist moral framework, that is to say, a linear view of social progress, wherein 

fuck it im bored


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## cumrobbery (May 16, 2017)

Probably fascism but they're both shit imo


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## Elwood P. Dowd (May 16, 2017)

DuskEngine said:


> You've been talking to some real dumbasses then



Why? I don't think it meets all the criteria (hell I'll freely admit I'm not 100% sure what all the criteria to call a state fascist would even be), but it meets a great many. As in:

Supreme leader idolized to the point of a personality cult: Check
Means of production remain largely in private hands: Check
Criticism of the state and its leader dealt with harshly: Check

Fails:

Idolization of the military/Military ideals: So far as I know, no
Some bizarre fetishization of an idealized past: Probably not, but Lee did push some sort of neo-Confucianism, IIRC

Note that stuff like racial purity isn't inherent to fascism. It wasn't a factor for the first decade of fascism  in Italy (there were even Jewish fascists elected to Parliament at one point, Mussolini essentially did a complete about-face on this) , and never was in places like Spain under Franco and Portugal under Salazar. It was in Hungary, but only after Horthy was overthrown in 1944 and the Arrow Cross loons came to power. Croatia was basically doing what they always do: hating Serbs, not sure how racial they got beyond that.

The inevitability of territorial expansion pushed by National Socialism, Italian fascism and Japan under Tojo is also unique to those regimes. They were certainly the three largest regimes, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that this is a fundamental characteristic of whatever it is you'd call fascism.


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## nad7155 (May 16, 2017)

DICKPICSRUS said:


> These ideologies are both pretty terrible in their own right.
> If I had to choice I'll have to pick communism mostly because the figure of fascism were lunetics in their own right.



I would pick death.


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## DuskEngine (May 17, 2017)

Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Criticism of the state and its leader dealt with harshly: Check


Singapore suppresses freedom of speech, but not nearly to the extent that more authoritarian states do. It's a multi-party democracy (albeit one where the opposition has the deck stacked against it) and while the press is stifled, it is possible to publish critical articles in major papers, though it does take some measure of balls to do so. So authoritarian but not nearly totalitarian.



Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Means of production remain largely in private hands: Check


It's more social democratic than capitalist per se (80% of Singaporeans live in public housing built by the government) but yeah. Then again the Nazis also expanded public welfare programs.

That being said another feature of fascism seems to be a desire for autarky and that's quite unthinkable in tiny, resource-starved Singapore.



Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Idolization of the military/Military ideals: So far as I know, no



They actually do have mandatory military service and an emphasis on maintaining a strong force but that's more pragmatic survivalism considering the neighbourhood they're in than jingoism.



Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Some bizarre fetishization of an idealized past: Probably not, but Lee did push some sort of neo-Confucianism, IIRC



China also has the whole Confucian thing going on and it's not nearly fascist. What fascism has is reactionary nationalism and, again, as a multi-ethnic breakaway state whose entire prior history consisted of being a backwater fishing village, that's not really viable for them.



Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Note that stuff like racial purity isn't inherent to fascism.



It's possible to be fascist without being as rabidly ethnonationalist as the Nazis yeah, but I doubt any fascist government would willingly abet mass immigration and make racial harmony and freedom of religion core values. It goes against the whole idea of organic nationalism that fascists like.


EDIT: besides all that a hitler youth cut wouldn't really be a good look for @OtterParty anyway


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## ZeCommissar (May 17, 2017)

It depends on the brand of fascism, if it's like nazism where there is a superior race and all the others are second-class citizens or dead, then I would NOT live under it.

If it's just a centralized totalitarian government, then fascism.


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## Vocaloid Ruby (May 17, 2017)

Well If I pick Facism I get sexy military uniforms and torture devices. On the other hand if I pick Communism I just get those things but I don't _own _them. Facism is win, win.


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## feedtheoctopus (May 31, 2017)

Guess.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 31, 2017)

This is a weird question because our site observes hundreds of crazy people who think they are communist, actually behave fascist, and would be annihilated by either group if our society achieved such a miserable extreme.


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## Un Platano (May 31, 2017)

Fascism is better because it's the more balanced of socially oppressive governments. Communism is in the top left of the political compass meme, while fascism is close to top center if not slightly right of it. Medieval deus vult governments are what occupies the top right. Extremes are always bad on that chart, and fascism at least avoids one of them compared to communism.


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## TowinKarz (Jun 1, 2017)

Fascism, at least it bills itself upfront as a brutal way to move forward.

Communism does the same thing, but, adds the insanity of insisting that it isn't and is, in fact, only a temporary phase that would be done away with if only the "subversives" hiding in the populace could be weeded out......


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## AnOminous (Jun 1, 2017)

Communism because there's no such fucking thing as "facism" you illiterate moron.


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## El Garbage (Jun 1, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Communism because there's no such fucking thing as "facism" you illiterate moron.


If a facistic government ranked people based on their face, I'd have to choose communism.

Between fascism and communism on the other hand... it depends on the style of death camp you want.

Fascist generally lived in European climates, so the death camp would be at least tolerably warm in the summer. 
GULAG was spread widely across the Soviet Union, so there's the chance of getting stuck in permafrost.
Nazi camps were extremely deadly, so your suffering would be pretty short. Getting gassed instantly was a possibility.
Commie camps had also a pretty high mortality rate, but the people were supposed to do actual work until they kicked the bucket. It could take years or even decades. On the other hand, many people were actually released after their sentence was over, allowing them to continue their miserable, starved lifestyle under the repressive communist boot.
So I really don't know. Probably fascism, at least the secret policemen beating you to death would have stylish uniforms.


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## AnOminous (Jun 1, 2017)

El Garbage said:


> If a facistic government



I would never trust a government so literally retarded it couldn't even spell its own name correctly.


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## Alec Benson Leary (Jun 1, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> I would never trust a government so literally exceptional it couldn't even spell its own name correctly.


Did you know from 1831 to 1834 we were technically the United Stotes of America? I won't bore you with the details here but basically it was fallout from Napoleon's expansionism.


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## cold (Jun 1, 2017)

Fascism. Communist countries are shitholes. At least people under fascist governments had a good quality of life if they didn't slip up.

If I can choose, however, I choose anarcho-capitalism or libertarianism.


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## HG 400 (Jun 1, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Communism because there's no such fucking thing as "facism" you illiterate moron.



What exactly do you have against finding a final solution to the inferior maxilla problem?


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## TheImportantFart (Jun 1, 2017)

Can't we just throw them _both_ off a helicopter?

That said, I think this thread makes several excellent points about how fascism can be good sometimes


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## aidshaver9111 (Jun 1, 2017)

TheImportantFart said:


> Can't we just throw them _both_ off a helicopter?
> 
> That said, I think this thread makes several excellent points about how fascism can be good sometimes



hey man non of those things are good but if u want to live under a fascist state fuck off back to syria


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## Sperglord Dante (Jun 1, 2017)

cold said:


> Fascism. Communist countries are shitholes. At least people under fascist governments had a good quality of life if they didn't slip up.


Not really. Sometimes even good fascists get thrown under the bus.


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## Randall Fragg (Jun 1, 2017)

aidshaver9111 said:


> hey man non of those things are good but if u want to live under a fascist state fuck off back to syria


Lol, you're a fag.


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## DangerousGas (Jun 1, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Communism because there's no such fucking thing as "facism" you illiterate moron.


There's no such thing as communsim, either, so bollocks thread is bollocks.


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## aidshaver9111 (Jun 1, 2017)

Randall Fragg said:


> Lol, you're a fag.



and whats wrong with that boy


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## Randall Fragg (Jun 1, 2017)

aidshaver9111 said:


> and whats wrong with that boy


Lol, you'll burn in hell with the other sodomites ya limp-wristed nignog.


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## Shokew (Jun 1, 2017)

Neither. Fascism is only slightly better, due to promise of real progress, but that's it. Both still suck, regardless.


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## Broseph Stalin (Jun 1, 2017)

Fascism, since it's either that or communism. But I guess it wouldn't be too bad if the founders studied Evola a bit and implemented a plan based on a lot of the principles of fascism that he highlighted, with some libertarian shit thrown into the mix because lelkek this timeline is awesome.


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## Lensherr (Jun 2, 2017)

Fascism, for sure. For all its flaws, at least it aspires to greatness; great advances in science, technology, and engineering were made under fascism. Plus, it expects greatness from its citizenry and fosters a strong uniform culture. Communism, on the other hand, is nothing more than shared mediocrity. Just a bunch of failures who've never achieved anything in their lives trying to drag everyone else down to their level.


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## Alphonse_Constant (Jun 3, 2017)

Sperglord Dante said:


> Not really. Sometimes even good fascists get thrown under the bus.


>Strasserists/Brownshirts
>Fascists
They followed Marxism. And they wouldn't have gotten BTFO if they didn't chimp out and loot/burn shit. 
Funfact, they were the people who burned down and looted Jewish businesses on the night of broken glass.


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## Camarque (Jun 3, 2017)

I think Fascism is way more liberating. Why? Because it doesn't demand loyalty to anyone but the national ingroup. That's actually a point Zizek made I believe.

I don't care if I'm obligated by law to reproduce and not be a 'degenerate' if at the same time I can(and indeed am encouraged to) go on raping and pillaging raids to neighboring countries for fun and profit. The benefits WAY outweigh the costs.


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## Lensherr (Jun 14, 2017)

Here's a video that sorta relates to the topic:


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## Kyria the Great (Jun 20, 2017)

In this scenario I would have to choose Fascism. The reason being is even if it would mean basic civil liberties would be quashed, at least I could enjoy my things, go to the theater, and various other activities. Not to mention if things go south on my front, I can always flee to South America where for the most part my crimes will be forgiven.


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## Somsnosa (Jun 21, 2017)

This thread is filled with the most spergy shit I've seen in years
Fascism has economically ruined Italy in its strongest points: tourism and agriculture. Closed gates, disgusting new buildings covering ancient art that wasn't classical; burned down tons of wine farms to force cereal production.
Not to mention that disaster that was entering in war. Light improver clothes, dated weapons remained from the 1st war, barely functioning machines. Many soldiers died just because of the broken weaponry or for the cold when barely entered russia. During the last phases both Mussolini and Hitler sent children to fight americans.
And the south Italy, oh the south! It was used as a trash bin to throw all criminals from the north (Mussolini believed Milan should have been the capital), never got support for technology, lived under extremely poor sanitary conditions, and suffered the agriculture reforms the most.
Your entire life was planned and programmed, from your education to your free time, which all revolved around war and love for the Duce, from your birth to your death.
Anyone who had a place of political or economic relevancy could have accused you of communism, and you would get beat up, tortured and inprisoned.

Once you start telling yourself "maybe fascism was not that bad" it's probably time to stop reading /pol/, or one day you'll too get a thread here for being a skitzofascist.


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## Kyria the Great (Jun 23, 2017)

Somsnosa said:


> This thread is filled with the most spergy shit I've seen in years
> Fascism has economically ruined Italy in its strongest points: tourism and agriculture. Closed gates, disgusting new buildings covering ancient art that wasn't classical; burned down tons of wine farms to force cereal production.
> Not to mention that disaster that was entering in war. Light improver clothes, dated weapons remained from the 1st war, barely functioning machines. Many soldiers died just because of the broken weaponry or for the cold when barely entered russia. During the last phases both Mussolini and Hitler sent children to fight americans.
> And the south Italy, oh the south! It was used as a trash bin to throw all criminals from the north (Mussolini believed Milan should have been the capital), never got support for technology, lived under extremely poor sanitary conditions, and suffered the agriculture reforms the most.
> ...



My preference was mostly the "lesser" of two terrible evils. I hope this thread isn't going about railing on about the wonders of Fascism rather than a simple thought experiment. Both of these government systems are rather similar in operation with Fascism going to more prefer the "Strong Man" outright whereas communism gets the "strong man" into power. Also the problem when we go on about communism and fascism is what type of either ideology as we are talking about as Spanish Fascism isn't certainly the same as Finnish Fascism same with Soviet Communism isn't the same as Cuban Communism.


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## TrannyLindsayLohan (Jun 24, 2017)

Fascism. Plenty of degenerate sex and bespoke uniforms, and I suspect Black Lives Matter wouldn't go very far.


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## Mrs Paul (Jul 2, 2017)

Lensherr said:


> Fascism, for sure. For all its flaws, at least it aspires to greatness; great advances in science, technology, and engineering were made under fascism. Plus, it expects greatness from its citizenry and fosters a strong uniform culture. Communism, on the other hand, is nothing more than shared mediocrity. Just a bunch of failures who've never achieved anything in their lives trying to drag everyone else down to their level.



I wouldn't say that necessarily.  Look at what people in the Soviet Union managed to achieve -- they were ahead of us in the space race for the most part.  (Except for getting to the moon -- USA!  USA!  USA!).  A lot of great literature, art, music, sports, etc came from Russia during the communist period.  That being said, I wouldn't have wanted to live under such a regime, but you can't deny those accomplishments.

Neither of them emphasize individuality, or creativity.  Quite the opposite.


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## El Garbage (Jul 2, 2017)

All authoritarian forms of government are shit.


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## Andrew Noel Schaefer (Jul 2, 2017)

Same goddamn thing


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## Andrew Noel Schaefer (Jul 2, 2017)

El Garbage said:


> All authoritarian forms of government are shit.


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## Caesare (Jul 10, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Communism because there's no such fucking thing as "facism" you illiterate moron.



That's not a choice. Do you mean Communsim?


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## Feline Darkmage (Jul 12, 2017)

Gommunism xDD


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## Zeorus (Jul 13, 2017)

Assuming the "communism" intended in this question is a Stalinist/Juche authoritarian state (as opposed to a libertarian socialist or anarcho-communist society)....communism. If my human rights are going to be infringed upon in a huge way, I'd at least be more likely to have the necessities of life provided for in such a society (even if those provisions aren't of particularly luxurious quality).


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## Vex Overmind (Jul 17, 2017)

Fascism sounds far more livable if you aren't some minority that said fascist party has deemed undesirable. Sure everyone who isn't like is suffering in perpetual torment, but at least there is the opportunity of change and possibly being at the forefront of overthrowing said fascist governments. People in Hitler's circle grew tired of his tactical ineptitude which led to the likes of Clauss von Stauffenberg attempting Operation: Valkyrie.


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## Zeorus (Jul 18, 2017)

Vex Overmind said:


> Fascism sounds far more livable if you aren't some minority that said fascist party has deemed undesirable. Sure everyone who isn't like is suffering in perpetual torment, but at least there is the opportunity of change and possibly being at the forefront of overthrowing said fascist governments. People in Hitler's circle grew tired of his tactical ineptitude which led to the likes of Clauss von Stauffenberg attempting Operation: Valkyrie.



A Stalinist/Juche government could be overthrown too.


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## Terrorist (Jul 18, 2017)

Fascism. At least I could have a job, retain assets, and feed myself, since there would still be a market economy and limited property rights. I have ancestors/relatives that lived under both (distant cousins in Italy and grandparents in Poland) and from their stories fascism seemed preferable, if you were willing to set aside your morals.


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## FemalePresident (Jul 18, 2017)

Peronism


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## Mysterious Capitalist (Aug 8, 2017)

I value private property, so fascism


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## Jeff Heaney (Aug 9, 2017)

Both are shit, but I would have to say communism.


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