# Does the actual "Left" even exist anymore?



## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 19, 2021)

I'm sure that those who've noticed it can attest that, for the past few years now, those claiming to be left leaning and the avowed enemy of capitalism still consoom and suck millionaire dongs if they happen to be hot enough, or happen to hold the right opinion. 

You can do blatant human rights violations so long as the one doing them is a transgender woman of color, otherwise, it's not the "right" person doing it. Therefore, it's like the greatest sin ever committed, but when a diversity hire is the one holding the whip, it's suddenly empowering, revolutionary and the greatest thing ever. 

I feel ridiculous just typing that, but that's literally what's happening these days. The Right has its share of retards, but heaven forbid that they're not always getting tarred and feathered.

These people don't actually care about human rights, equality, or any of those worthless buzzwords that they toss around so long as it makes them feel powerful.


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## milk (Feb 19, 2021)

I'm not sure agreeing with the status quo and installing ideology from mainstream figure heads is "edgy" at all.


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## axfaxf (Feb 19, 2021)

I didn´t leave The Left, The Left left me. And I suspect a lot of people feel the same way, since it was a meme some time ago.
And it will all come crushing down on their sorry asses, I´m afraid. As spoken by a great white supremacist :
“You can fool all of the people some of time; you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.” 

TL;DR: Learn to code.


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## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 19, 2021)

milk said:


> I'm not sure agreeing with the status quo and installing ideology from mainstream figure heads is "edgy" at all.


To them, it is, and that's what's alarming.


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## TFT-A9 (Feb 19, 2021)

The simplifications of "left" and "right" have been unhelpful for a while now really.

Edgelords gonna edgelord, they'll take whatever excuse is most appealing or convenient for them


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## Pimpleking55 (Feb 19, 2021)

Yes and no, in my opinion the "left"has split in 2 groups:
1. The traditional left who uphold those values and seek improvement through humanism and compassion.

2.The insane woke left who mistake fascism and oppression with progressiveness and have created nothing more than a new religion,
and are guilty of al the things they are saying to be against.

For some insane reason number 2 has become the norm....


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 19, 2021)

If you mean Class-oriented leftism, its scattered to the winds once Occupy Wall Street was destroyed by identity politics.  Professors, Press, and Politicians now push Race-oriented politics each for their own selfish reasons and to the worsening of social conditions.

Democrats want grievance-based voting blocs for the ease of rounding them up and sending them to the polls.
The press are named after the thing the internet replaced, the printing press, and as such are dinosaurs looking for any way to persist and for them that is getting eyeballs through yellow journalism.  Only delegitimization via the conditions of the great depression sobered the public masses against idiot journalists and rewarded smart insight again. So it will be again.
Academics likewise enjoy the fame that comes from presenting a solution, correct or not, to the public and raking in the social credit score.
This process is now far too escalated to be solved by simple easy solutions but the economic and political cost of internationalist capitalism unquestioned and embraced in the 90s by leftist traitors like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair (if they even ever believed) has not yet fallen on the heads of enough people. Nor are there loud enough voices doomsaying in exact enough detail so that the continuing decline cannot be ignored and the true leftists reluctantly given the political capital to solve the Neoliberal Question.


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## Megaroad 2012 (Feb 19, 2021)

Im right here, faggot


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## Brigada (Feb 19, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> I'm sure that those who've noticed it can attest that, for the past few years now, those claiming to be left leaning and the avowed enemy of capitalism still consoom and suck millionaire dongs if they happen to be hot enough, or happen to hold the right opinion.
> 
> You can do blatant human rights violations so long as the one doing them is a transgender woman of color, otherwise, it's not the "right" person doing it. Therefore, it's like the greatest sin ever committed, but when a diversity hire is the one holding the whip, it's suddenly empowering, revolutionary and the greatest thing ever.
> 
> ...


depends on what ''left'' youre talking about. since you said enemies of capitalism im not sure who you exactly mean. do you mean liberals like the democratic party or straight up marxists? all the commie and anarkiddy hangouts ive visited regularly make fun of liberals with phrases like ''MORETRANSWARCRIMINALS'' then again the very same people all celebrate when a celebrity says trans rights so theyre still hopeless consoomers.

a big problem with the anti-capitalist left in america is that they dont properly read the original theory that their ideology is based on instead they supplement their ''revolutionary workers movement'' with queer theory and academic feminism both of which are more of a middle to high class thing and not something the actual working class has any investment in. thats why they seem so insane when their views on class and progressivism clash (some examples being them wanting no borders despite that being incredibly bad for the american physical labourer or hating the rich while having to praise them since rich people are most likely to be pro whatever progressive movement the commies currently support). on the outside they play the big communist revolutionary and have a worker focused aesthetic on the inside theyre nothing more than radical neoliberals who larp about hating the rich.


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## kadoink (Feb 19, 2021)

I think the left got so out of control they split up into groups and the traditional left that most of us got used too in the 90s and 2000s has been replaced by a circus  and the DNC has been enabling them as much as possible.  They've ruined their own party with identity politics and have gotten a free pass to act as retarded as they want and because they got every braindead retard who supported them that Trump was the second coming of Hitler instead of the generic opportunistic crook he is, everyone was ok with them acting like clowns. 

Its gonna come crashing down on them, pretty soon if we're lucky. Should be an interesting show.


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## Save the Loli (Feb 19, 2021)

Left vs right is almost entirely obsolete now, politics are now basically "closed" (nationalists, etc.) vs "open" (neoliberals, multicult stuff, etc). We keep _thinking_, there are still conservatives and liberals or a right-wing and left-wing but there really aren't because all of those groups fractured into a million pieces and reoriented with the "closed" or "open" system.

Look at the "European far right" for instance. Barely any of those politicians or their supporters are actually "far-right" and are a mix of people disillusioned by how modern social democracy is all about the rapefugees and troons and conservatives actually wanting to conserve something. In most of Europe the "far-right" party is usually one of the furthest left economically (although they're usually just centrist, but the "socialists" are all about neoliberalism in Europe now so they're centrist too).

Your anti-globalists will include Trump-style conservatives, the "European far-right", the actual far-right i.e. neo-Nazis, some black supremacists, some extreme Zionists, but also all sorts of communists and anarchists. Now yes, many communists and anarchists are deep into identity politics but there's still plenty who aren't, mostly outside of the US and Western Europe. There's also a few groups in the West who aren't idpol infested like the Trotskyist group that publishes the World Socialist Website.

Examples where you see this include the WTO protests (Antifa and white nationalists were on the same side) or recently during the GME pump and dump where /pol/tards and Antifa were laughing at hedgefund assholes losing money and the finance media like CNBC or Fox Business simping for said hedgefund managers. You also saw the subversion present in the left when a few Antifa accounts all but praise the hedgefund goons and complain about "fascists" and "alt-right Nazis". Regardless, the fact is your average "fascist" or "commie" has more common cause than they think.

There's a healthy dose of populism vs elitism in this too. Neoliberal ideology doesn't promise much for most people so in a democratic society it has to use identity politics to gain wedge appeal. I'd compare it to classical reactionaries aka the ORIGINAL conservatives. They were the party of the aristocracy and nobles but to truly get their way in an increasingly democratic Europe they needed to ally with the Church against everyone else (and rig elections through rotten boroughs, gerrymandering, and backchannels with the king). They have to establish themselves as the only possible ideology you could support even if you don't like it hence their reliance on what "science" and "trusted sources" say. And just like the original conservatives were opposed by the bourgeois, nationalists, other liberals, and early socialists, the coalition arranged against the neoliberals is pretty diverse.


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## Lone MacReady (Feb 19, 2021)

Not really, sure some classical fruits are still around, but the left killing God has forced them to adopt Regressive marxism as their new religion against the "demon" of White America.


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## Sexy Senior Citizen (Feb 19, 2021)

milk said:


> I'm not sure agreeing with the status quo and installing ideology from mainstream figure heads is "edgy" at all.






kadoink said:


> I think the left got so out of control they split up into groups and the traditional left that most of us got used too in the 90s and 2000s has been replaced by a circus  and the DNC has been enabling them as much as possible.  They've ruined their own party with identity politics and have gotten a free pass to act as retarded as they want and because they got every braindead retard who supported them that Trump was the second coming of Hitler instead of the generic opportunistic crook he is, everyone was ok with them acting like clowns.
> 
> Its gonna come crashing down on them, pretty soon if we're lucky. Should be an interesting show.


Part of the problem with the Left (and what's quickly becoming a problem with the Right) is the balkanization of the ideology. In ye olde days of yore, each party was united around a set of ideals, and if you didn't like them, you went and started your own party (the Bull Moose Party being a notable example.) However, at some point the Left decided to bring different groups under its umbrella to expand its political power. These groups often have wildly differing ideologies and beliefs, and can turn against each other without a single enemy to unite against (to borrow the Orange Man as an example: troons and terfs could hold their noses and work together against the Orange Man because he was Literally Hitler who would murder troons and grab terfs by the pussy- but even with that common enemy, there was still sniping between the two camps. Look for the conflict to grow now that the Orange Man is no longer in office.)

This has led to what some call "the Oppression Olympics," where each group competes to see who is the most oppressed by the Evil White Man. The most oppressed gets all the goodies: government handouts, fawning media adoration, and the coveted Likes and Retweets on Twitter.



Effluvium said:


> I'm sure that those who've noticed it can attest that, for the past few years now, those claiming to be left leaning and the avowed enemy of capitalism still consoom and suck millionaire dongs if they happen to be hot enough, or happen to hold the right opinion.
> 
> You can do blatant human rights violations so long as the one doing them is a transgender woman of color, otherwise, it's not the "right" person doing it. Therefore, it's like the greatest sin ever committed, but when a diversity hire is the one holding the whip, it's suddenly empowering, revolutionary and the greatest thing ever.
> 
> ...


It hasn't been about human rights in many years. It is only about saying or doing whatever it takes to obtain and maintain power. BLM helped Joe Biden get elected, and expected the keys to the kingdom in return; they were shocked to learn they had been used as pawns. Similarly, illegal immigrants are now being used as pawns in this game of thrones, with the ultimate end being power. We can argue about whether they are Left or Right, but at the end of the day they only want to rule.


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## Stoneheart (Feb 19, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> If you mean Class-oriented leftism, its scattered to the winds once Occupy Wall Street was destroyed by identity politics. Professors, Press, and Politicians now push Race-oriented politics each for their own selfish reasons and to the worsening of social conditions.


Its like history, it rhymes... same happened in Weimar, than the winning leftist faction started to work in the night of long knives.


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## NormieCasual (Feb 19, 2021)

I think there is a strong faction of the actual left that is hidden amongst the modern left. These are people who have always been left or at least left-leaning. I've met quite a few who hates identity politics but they hate the right more. Thus, they will always find an argument as to why they must continue to vote for the left.


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## Not Really Here (Feb 19, 2021)

You know there's more than one axis right?
If you think the 'real left' is only left and down on the political compass I don't know what to tell you.


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## Dwight Frye (Feb 19, 2021)

It’s very difficult anymore to find a sane and rational left leaning person. Hell, even JFK these days is being denounced as an alt right Nazi by most leftists. I used to be left leaning as well up to about my mid 20s, but the moment I started questioning all the identity politics, the language fabrications and policing, the altering of history to suit an agenda, etc... I was immediately turned on, called every -ist and -phobe they could think of and treated as “just another inbred stupid republican” 

the right wing can be spergy dumbasses at times, but the left has turned into a literal cult that Jim Jones would be proud of.


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## Drain Todger (Feb 19, 2021)

I used to be an anarchist. Not the cunty Antifa kind, but more the Mikhail Bakunin “rich bankers are the problem” kind. Money and stonks didn’t make sense to me. During the crash of ‘08, I saw rich people gambling with derivatives and fiat funny money. Ordinary people were losing their jobs over it while the hedge funds got rewarded with bailouts. Imagine going to Vegas, and you lose everything, and yet, you’re given fat wads of other people’s money so you can keep gambling. That’s Wall Street. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. I was justifiably angry about this, and still am. The liberals have absolutely no program to punish the people responsible. On the contrary, they protect and shield them. 

The liberal centrists are pressured from both sides; from the left, who want actual communism and can only be stalled by false promises of welfare, and from the right, who are reviled by the center as “angry, selfish, racist nativists”, but are really working-class people who are justly afraid of losing their jobs and their basic human dignity to outsourcing, immigration, and the gig economy. This isn’t a two-way battle, but a three-way one, with the centthird-way corpocrat trash playing the left against the right in the hopes that they can delay them long enough to establish a totalitarian centrist neoliberal state full of technocrats and bean-counters, which is the most unspeakably disgusting thing I can imagine.

The late David Graeber, one of the architects of the Occupy Wall Street movement, had this to say about the matter, in his book, _The Utopia of Rules_, where he rails against bureaucracy.



> What is presented as the “moderate” Left solution to any social problems—and radical left solutions are, almost everywhere now ruled out tout court—has invariably come to be some nightmare fusion of the worst elements of bureaucracy and the worst elements of capitalism. It’s as if someone had consciously tried to create the least appealing possible political position. It is a testimony to the genuine lingering power of leftists ideals that anyone would even consider voting for a party that promoted this sort of things—because surely, if they do, it’s not because they actually think these are good policies, but because these are the only policies anyone identifies themselves as left-of-center is allowed to set forth.
> 
> Is there any wonder, then, that every time there is a social crisis, it is the Right, rather than the Left, which becomes the venue for the expression of popular anger?
> 
> The Right, at least, has a critique of bureaucracy. It’s not a very good one. But at least it exists. The Left has none. As a result, when those who identify with the Left do have anything negative to say about bureaucracy, they are usually forced to adopt a watered-down version of the right-wing critique.



Back when I was a kid, the Left had their heads mostly screwed on straight. Corporatism and warmongering were the problems of the day. Corporate colonialism, in particular, was an actual thing. Look at where the coltan in our smartphones comes from. Look at the sordid history of Rio Tinto and how they treated villagers around their mines. When I was a kid, the Left railed against the bureaucrats. It was in our fucking music. Radiohead immortalized left-wing alt-globalism in _Electioneering. _Remember? _Riot shields, Voodoo economics, Cattle prods and the IMF. _Rage Against the Machine protested police brutality and System of a Down criticized the incarceration of non-violent drug offenders. These were all rational positions to take. Yes, America incarcerates too many druggies. Yes, our cops are too militarized. Yes, our economic policies favor neoliberal consoomerism and debt slavery. Yes, the IMF impoverishes people with structural adjustment policies that allow them to dictate austerity measures to third-world countries and lock them into years of usury and decrepitude. This should be plainly evident to anyone with a functioning pair of eyes.

Then, around the early 2010s, a funny thing happened. All of a sudden, class no longer mattered. The real problem was “whiteness” and “toxic masculinity”. Apparently, straight white men are manifestly awful and responsible for all of the evil in the world. You see how this shit works? The moment you gang up on rich cocksuckers, they reorient the conversation away from them and their unearned wealth using race and gender bugbears. For ten fucking years, the left has swallowed this shit hook, line and sinker, spewing out incomprehensible nonsense regurgitated from their college professors. They claim to be revolutionaries, but they do nothing at all to fight the system. Instead, they are its slaves. Now, if you criticize Wall Street, or the IMF, or the way George Soros funds color revolutions in the Middle East to soften them up for neoliberal invasion and tyranny, they can unironically call you Antisemitic. 

Leftists vote neoliberal despots into power. The right-wing, isolationist policy of America First saved thousands of Syrian children from being bombed into fish food. So, who are the real leftists anymore? Politics in America are like those old cartoons where one critter is chasing another and after a while of this, they switch sides so that the chaser becomes the chased. If I told you I was anti-globalist, which side would you even say I was on?

Anyway, I have a brokerage account, now. Fuck it. Give me the loot, too.


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## Meat Target (Feb 19, 2021)

The modern Left has taken Marx's class dichotomy of Bougies vs. Proletariat, and retconned a whole host of "marginalized" vs "privileged" groups onto it.

Thus, a camwhore sex worker or a blogger Journalist who lives in luxury that 99% of the planet would kill to have is "oppressed", while an out-of-work white guy is an "oppressor".

It's a sleight of hand that stacks the deck in their favor; they are always right and good, you are always a racist sexist fascist poopyhead meanie for merely existing.

In addition to this, their recent embrace of corporatism is just using what they did not create to their advantage. Hypocrisy is not a vice to the Left; to them, the ends (acquiring power) justify the means. As MovieBob said, "no bad tactics, only bad targets".


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 19, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> I used to be an anarchist. Not the cunty Antifa kind, but more the Mikhail Bakunin “rich bankers are the problem” kind. Money and stonks didn’t make sense to me. During the crash of ‘08, I saw rich people gambling with derivatives and fiat funny money. Ordinary people were losing their jobs over it while the hedge funds got rewarded with bailouts. Imagine going to Vegas, and you lose everything, and yet, you’re given fat wads of other people’s money so you can keep gambling. That’s Wall Street. Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. I was justifiably angry about this, and still am. The liberals have absolutely no program to punish the people responsible. On the contrary, they protect and shield them.


Used to be an anarchist as well, still am.

Hate modern "anarchists". I get called all sorts of things and even anarcho-pacifist has become a dirty word in todays context- and the thing is, I'm not even that, but once I point out "dude, chucking shit at cars, burning down your cities, etc, is fucking stupid" its screams of "pacifism never gets you anywhere, traitor, etc".

I participated in Occupy and found the thing to be a joke, ie, people literally voted on whether we should be democratic where I was- what the fuck? There was also a "free stuff, take one" booth, with a bunch of cds and other shit. You can guess what happened with that and these people's reactions.

Even then, Id say that, while naïve and misguided, these people at least had some of what the old left used to be about, were oriented around class politics, reasonable stuff like opposition to the exclusive bailout for bankers, etc 

Now- while I disliked a lot of the lulzy parts of that, with the stuff thats happened over the past few years and especially with idpol, BLM, the troon issues, etc, its just gotten so much worse. Its no longer about anything reasonable, decentralizing power structures, gutting destructive policies, trying to organize food drives horizontally, etc. Its about screeching as loud as possible to pressure public bureaucrats to virtue signal to your crowd. Id argue with people that no, not all cops are bastards, people laughing when that UK cop was paralyzed from falling from her horse were retarded, you can't just try to burn down city hall in Portland and then go "but why da po-leece be arresting us" and get called all sorts of names. 

I've just basically given up on the "left" at this point. I actually still do volunteer in a number of things, the main thing I do is help with a food bank for the homeless, but unless I'm talking with some old head who hasn't been infected with this shit, I tend to just completely ignore anyone who is a zoomer and into leftism. The other thing is, left wingers almost never, never, never actually organize anything other than protests where they can yell at people. What happened to filling in potholes and helping out your community? All modern leftists want to do is scream and march in the streets, not actually build anything or help people out. 

One revelation that did come to me at the gym a few years back, was that really the stuff I liked doing the Christians often did themselves (organize food drives, charity walks to raise money, soup kitchens, money to send to Haiti, etc), didn't come with half the baggage of the modern left, shut the fuck up about political shite largely focused on the charity aspects (might have a quick prayer at the start), and seemed to keep it on the down low. Of course, there are still evangelicals, to a degree- but I don't think theyre as much the mainstream anymore as the regressive left seems to have taken over the left wing narrative. The Christian demographic, I have grown to appreciate, because while it is full of a lot of normie soccer moms or dads, etc- at least when they get together its somehow considerably much more constructive than a majority of what the left has to offer.


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## Syaoran Li (Feb 19, 2021)

I really think a lot of the Woke Left's views and how they simp for the same corporations they claim to nominally oppose is because they're all still on some level rebelling against the old Religious Right of their childhoods, particularly its final form it took in the Bush years.

They still view the Right as theocrats, which are largely extinct outside of a few Boomer and early Gen X incumbents in the South and some of the edgelord "traditionalist" /pol/ fags like Nick Fuentes, The Distributist, Thomas777, Vox Day, and several forum members on here.

The thing is that the Yahwehists, as horrible as they may be, are largely defanged but the Woke Left is still acting as if they're still relevant, even if it's only on a subconscious level.

The traditionalists failed precisely because they did their damndest to conserve, but they sought to conserve all the wrong things and it ended up boomeranging on them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If the Woke Left ever does experience a backlash, it'll be like that but on an even more intense scale.

I know a lot of edgy tradcel retards say "hurr durr, the pendulum doesn't exist hurr durr muh enlightened centrist strawman" but the pendulum effect is a thing in American culture and history and it's been there since the mid-19th Century at the earliest and definitely has been a thing since the 20th Century.

The Woke Left became more powerful than ever in 2020 solely due to the grace of the corporations that actually run this country. If the corporations no longer view the Woke Left as useful, they will throw them to the dirt just like they did to the fundies in the mid-2000's.

I don't know if the corporations will stop viewing the Woke Left as useful in our lifetimes, but the real issue is the corporations. BLM, Antifa, and the Woke Left as a whole are merely their unwitting attack dogs and shock troops.

Contrary to what the Woke Left and the traditionalists will tell you, America was never a Christian theocracy outside of colonial New England's Puritans or the de facto regional theocracy in Appalachia.

We're a nation founded as a social experiment by educated liberals and libertines.

Unfortunately, the corporations destroyed this country decades ago

The current "culture war" is all due to corporations exploiting two broken generations and trying to preserve the old "Left vs. Right" dynamic.


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## Drain Todger (Feb 19, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> centthird-way corpocrat trash


I’m so sick of that. Xenforo’s WYSIWYG editor has a bug with phone keyboards where when you insert a line break, it _undoes something_. What the hell?


DiscoRodeo said:


> Used to be an anarchist as well, still am.
> 
> Hate modern "anarchists". I get called all sorts of things and even anarcho-pacifist has become a dirty word in todays context- and the thing is, I'm not even that, but once I point out "dude, chucking shit at cars, burning down your cities, etc, is fucking stupid" its screams of "pacifism never gets you anywhere, traitor, etc".
> 
> ...


The rich injected racialism, gender issues, and sexuality into leftism, signal-boosting them as much as possible over the class struggle. Now, nobody sane wants to be associated with the left, which now consists of affluent college kids who suffer from white guilt and preach radical ideologies of no substance or practicality to ordinary working people. The threat to the upper classes is neutralized. Mission accomplished.

Follow the paper trail. Left-wing activism in the US is not organic. It’s controlled by NGOs and charities, and the levers of those NGOs and charities are held by extremely wealthy people. Leftism didn’t fade away. It was bought.



Syaoran Li said:


> I really think a lot of the Woke Left's views and how they simp for the same corporations they claim to nominally oppose is because they're all still on some level rebelling against the old Religious Right of their childhoods, particularly its final form it took in the Bush years.
> 
> They still view the Right as theocrats, which are largely extinct outside of a few Boomer and early Gen X incumbents in the South and some of the edgelord "traditionalist" /pol/ fags like Nick Fuentes, The Distributist, Thomas777, Vox Day, and several forum members on here.
> 
> ...


The Woke Left are _exactly_ like nutty Evangelicals. Their chief business is finding books to burn and things to declare taboo. Instead of think of the poor impressionable children, it’s think of the poor sensitive thin-skinned rainbow-haired queers. It’s the exact same sentiment, only updated and repackaged for a new generation. Straight white men are the new Satan. Trauma triggers, the new bread of the Eucharist.

Remember when GWAR went up on stage, and Oderus had the Cuttlefish of Cthulhu hanging off his crotch, and they sang obscene metal anthems against the first Gulf War? That was the leftism I remember. There isn’t a trace of it left any longer. It’s dead. Anywhere dirtbag leftists may briefly congregate, the woke left will move in and dust everything with rainbow sprinkles and demand that you take down the titty posters on your locker doors and take that CD with offensive lyrics out of the disc changer. 

The Right are the new counterculture. It’s crazy.


Syaoran Li said:


> I know a lot of edgy tradcel retards say "hurr durr, the pendulum doesn't exist hurr durr muh enlightened centrist strawman" but the pendulum effect is a thing in American culture and history and it's been there since the mid-19th Century at the earliest and definitely has been a thing since the 20th Century.
> 
> The Woke Left became more powerful than ever in 2020 solely due to the grace of the corporations that actually run this country. If the corporations no longer view the Woke Left as useful, they will throw them to the dirt just like they did to the fundies in the mid-2000's.
> 
> ...


The corporations know that if they let the left and right unite into a single Nazbol bloc over labor and class issues, we will crush them.

America’s history throughout the 20th and early 21st century is one long string of bullshit military interventions that did nothing to make Americans safer and more secure and served realpolitik goals. Panama, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria? Complete shitshows. The second Gulf War killed over 100,000 Iraqi civilians and made millions more homeless, permanently making Iraq poorer and more susceptible to the rise of ISIS. The US and French intervention in Libya destroyed crucial civilian infrastructure and turned Libya into a hellhole with open-air slave markets. The CIA funneling thousands of tons of weapons into Syria and stoking the flames of the civil war there ended up making millions upon millions of Syrians into refugees. 

They staged false flag attacks on civilians. The White Helmets were a fake propaganda psyop; they caught them staging “rescues” on tape for propaganda value, and many of their members were Islamic radicals who were also caught on camera beheading people and toting their severed heads around. The so-called gas attacks in Douma in 2018 were completely staged. The OPCW falsified their reports, and even tried quashing a contradictory report, as revealed by Wikileaks. The concentration of chlorine they discovered was in the parts per billion. That’s not a gas attack. That’s the amount of chlorine you’d find in someone’s house from them using bleach on their laundry. Bashar al-Assad didn’t do a fucking thing wrong.

American livelihoods are vanishing beneath the crushing mass of neoliberal corporatism, which insists on making us work longer days doing soul-destroying tasks while paying people peanuts for it, or, alternately, on hiring us on a contractual basis for minutes at a time and not giving us any benefits at all. Thanks to globalization, American workers now have to compete with actual fucking slave labor. Chinese factory workers spend about two years working in prison-like conditions before they’re completely used up and burnt out and replaced by fresh young blood. They stick feet on computer mice for sixteen hours a day and fall asleep on an assembly line halfway through their shift, and when they’re done and have to go back to their cockroach-infested dormitories, they have a sponge bath with a bucket before going to bed. 

Thanks to the end of the Bretton-Woods system and the rise of the neolib corpocrats, we have to compete with people who live like human fucking livestock. If we protest, we’re told that we’re racist for complaining about their newfound prosperity. We are expected to hold multiple contradictory opinions. We are told that excessive economic growth is destroying the environment, but also that it’s good for poor rice-picking Chinese to make more money in sweatshops instead of picking rice. The word sweatshop has actually fallen into disuse among the left because it now has a racist connotation. PRC propagandists step up on the stage doing TED talks about how wonderful and liberating it is to be treated like human livestock and be paid fifty cents an hour to stick feet on computer mice for sixteen hours a day, and braindead neolibs in the audience wave their sweatshop-made iPhones in the air and eat it up.






_“You’re arrogant and parochial to think it’s about you and your habits as a consoomer. We wanted this for ourselves. We’re masochist insectoid people and will do anything for money. Many of us would bend in the middle and straight suck a *dick* for a Franklin. That’s like a year’s pay.”_

And meanwhile, the American dream of a nuclear family and a three-bedroom house with a garage on a single-earner income has fucking vanished, replaced with debt, debt, and more debt. I find myself agreeing with the Right more and more. Instead of colonizing space and preserving the future of the species, we give welfare to the undeserving and favors to the unappreciative. 

_“Fuck NASA. Going to space? That’s white honkey stuff, like mountain climbing. Gimme more gibs.” _

We used to do cutting-edge aerospace and engineering shit here in America. We’re allowing our STEM know-how to dissolve into nothing. When kids unearth one of the Rocketdyne F-1s that sent us to the Moon, they cannot conceive of how it was built, because they can’t imagine making all those welds by hand. They’d get carpal tunnel and then they’d have to go to a wellness center and do Yoga for hours under the watchful eye of a fat lesbian with Troll doll hair if they had to do even a quarter of that work. Everyone wants to learn the humanities, and everyone wants to be some variety of dick-puffer. We have a glut of unnecessary journalists, lawyers, managers, and bureaucrats who are wastes of space and really should not even be alive. Any time someone like Elon Musk tries to revive some vestige of the old America, some useless dick-puffers in government whine that he’s not hiring enough illegals and metrosexuals to build rockets, as if that has any relevance at all to their performance at the task.

If you say any of this to a woke leftist or the average liberal, you will be given a blank stare of non-recognition at the least, or be accused of peddling conspiracy theories and vile bigotry at the worst. Frankness and obscenity are the domain of the Right. Comforting delusions are courted by the new Left.


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## Erika Furudo (Feb 19, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> Used to be an anarchist as well, still am.


But why? You even gave an example with OWS and people being offered free things, and how that was exploited. 
Anarchists just won't work, ancap, ancom it doesn't matter. Most people absolutely need rules and a crime and punishment system to keep them behaving a cerain way. Even if that were not the case, you're just asking to be taken over by that other group who does organize and work as a collective. 

I just don't get anarchists, I don't view the system as sustainable, and if internal disputes don't ruin everything, external forces will. 


Syaoran Li said:


> They still view the Right as theocrats, which are largely extinct outside of a few Boomer and early Gen X incumbents in the South and some of the edgelord "traditionalist" /pol/ fags like Nick Fuentes.


How happy will you be if it turns out he's actually gay?


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## Syaoran Li (Feb 19, 2021)

Erika Furudo said:


> But why? You even gave an example with OWS and people being offered free things, and how that was exploited.
> Anarchists just won't work, ancap, ancom it doesn't matter. Most people absolutely need rules and a crime and punishment system to keep them behaving a cerain way. Even if that were not the case, you're just asking to be taken over by that other group who does organize and work as a collective.
> 
> I just don't get anarchists, I don't view the system as sustainable, and if internal disputes don't ruin everything, external forces will.
> ...



Agreed completely on anarchism. Fuck anarchy.

And to answer your question, Fuentes isn't really my type.


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## Meat Target (Feb 19, 2021)

Erika Furudo said:


> I just don't get anarchists, I don't view the system as sustainable, and if internal disputes don't ruin everything, external forces will.


It's more of a "perfect world" idea. JRR Tolkien put it this way: "the worst job of any man, even saints, is to boss others around. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity".

Alas, you are correct: power vacuums are never a good thing. Tearing down a corrupt system can easily lead to something worse taking its place.


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## Erika Furudo (Feb 19, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> Agreed completely on anarchism. Fuck anarchy.
> 
> And to answer your question, Fuentes isn't really my type.


I just imagined you would find it amusing if the tradcath zoomer was actually a closeted gay guy. Especially given you cited him as one of the individualls attempting to bring back "traditional" morality, and your issues with Abrahamic religions imo seem mostly related to their views on sex.

The funny thing is I'm socially conservative, yet I still hate the trad movement. It just comes off as a larp/grift, if someone is actually X they don't need to tell everyone, and they don't make it their entire lifestyle/personality. For traditionalist people in particular, they don't live on social media of all places. 



Meat Target said:


> It's more of a "perfect world" idea. JRR Tolkien put it this way: "the worst job of any man, even saints, is to boss others around. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity".
> 
> Alas, you are correct: power vacuums are never a good thing. Tearing down a corrupt system can easily lead to something worse taking its place.


Tolkien was a huge fan of the Catholic Church though, so I can't see him as much of an anarchist, he just hated the industrial revoloution more than anything imo.


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## Absurdist Laughter (Feb 19, 2021)

I think the lines between liberalism and leftism have eroded into this mess we see today. I still consider myself liberal but the "liberals" I interact with are actually far leftists.


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## Syaoran Li (Feb 19, 2021)

Erika Furudo said:


> I just imagined you would find it amusing if the tradcath zoomer was actually a closeted gay guy. Especially given you cited him as one of the individualls attempting to bring back "traditional" morality, and your issues with Abrahamic religions imo seem mostly related to their views on sex.
> 
> The funny thing is I'm socially conservative, yet I still hate the trad movement. It just comes off as a larp/grift, if someone is actually X they don't need to tell everyone, and they don't make it their entire lifestyle/personality. For traditionalist people in particular, they don't live on social media of all places.



It's pretty obvious that Fuentes is so deep in the closet he might as well be in Narnia.


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 19, 2021)

Erika Furudo said:


> But why? You even gave an example with OWS and people being offered free things, and how that was exploited.
> Anarchists just won't work, ancap, ancom it doesn't matter. Most people absolutely need rules and a crime and punishment system to keep them behaving a cerain way. Even if that were not the case, you're just asking to be taken over by that other group who does organize and work as a collective.
> 
> I just don't get anarchists, I don't view the system as sustainable, and if internal disputes don't ruin everything, external forces will.
> ...



Honestly, its hard to look internally and figure out why I became an anarchist. I think the reasons why people do now, versus why people did in the 2000s are very different. I can remember in the 2000s, there were a lot of cultural forces like the evangelicals or neocons being prominant that made people, especially youth, want to rebel against that. 

A part of why anarchism may have become prominent is just because there also seemed to be a lot of distrust towards political institutions and systems. I think thats just itensified as of late. Its pretty obvious that the university system is just a ponzi scheme sold to people to get them further into debt when there are no jobs. Its pretty obvious that the war on drugs failed, it was mostly non-violent drug offenders who were paying the price and the way arresting people over marijuana and jailing them disrupted communities (especially black ones) just wasn't worth the cost. The way the government at that time lied to us about the Iraq war, how they bailed out the bankers and all that just disillusioned people considerably further. 

You add in that people at the time just saw the democrat-republican thing as a blatant duopoly captured by neoliberals and saw the arguments from state oriented communists or liberals of "just vote for us this time, 20 elections down the line, well reform the system the way you want" and I just don't think there was any way to really justify faith within the electoral system or our institutions. You also have the corruption, the bureaucratic backlog, and the inefficiency of centralized control and the way it was all just sloshing around, it wasn't something I could put any faith in.

What was different in the culture is that left-wing politics were more seemingly class oriented, and the racialist stuff was only really a minor issue. I do remember knowing people at the time who were into things like Food not Bombs, filling in pot holes, mutual aid projects, and the likes. Even had an internship with a company called "trade bank" that created its own internal system to help organize barter trades for goods or services, kind of like craigslist or ebay. The entire approach was, government has failed us, government centralization often just results in even more inefficiencies, corruptions, or the like, but we still have to do something- we can't really wait. Lets actually do "direct action" and not just whine about things. That was the sort of thing I could get behind. Its why, on one level- I get community policing, but on another level, with BLM and Ferguson & with my own experiences in food drives, I knew these things didn't just magically appear over night and it would take a lot of work to actually get any sort of community policing going. I'd point this out, say that people were just creating a void, and random zoomers would just literally, and I mean literally, yell at me.

The entire approach of anarchism should be based around gradually transitioning away from the state. Its horizontal organization, as much as you can do so. Its not an absense of rules or anything like that, it should have more to do with the Nietzschean, Hellenic, or even stoic view of freedom. Freedom and responsibility have to go hand in hand. You can't simply be ruled by your passions or whims, the stoics seemed to actually argue that no man was free until they had mastered their own inhibitions and could act rationally. I think the end goal of anarchism is less and less realistic, because I don't think most people can handle freedom, but I still don't trust the state, and see most cases where power is being centralized as rarely turning out good. Sure, maybe every once in awhile you have a genuinely good and charismatic leader, but people are better off taking care of themselves at the end of the day and being more self reliant, and less reliant on the gubment.

Its sort of like how null was talking about how retards wanting to post childporn on 8chan or scream about nazi shit basically damned internet forums. I want to get to a point where people are smart enough on internet forums not to do this, so we can enjoy freedom responsibly. I'd like to see a society less centralized and with people much more self-reliant and not dependent upon the gubment. Will it happen? Probably not. People do also forget that there was a time when the internet was largely deregulated, and people didn't fling shit constantly because that would be a retarded thing to do with your freedom that would bring the entire thing crashing down, and it has many, many times.

Most people turn libertarian, and I did have elements of that. I just didn't drink the kool aid and believe that the only reason monopolies like wal mart of amazon existed was because the government gave them kickbacks. I also don't buy all the anarcho-communist arguments either. I don't think money is evil (retarded view that a lot have, tbh). I don't really buy mutualism because I have seen how most co-ops work, and theyre basically train wrecks. I also think that on some level, some people really do need some hierarchy. 

My entire view at this point is, I think we need to be less reliant on the government. I believe an ideal society is probably going to have numerous corporations running around. I think that corporations that are more horizontal have a better chance of addressing the needs of their workers, but I don't believe in absolute horizontalism and "everyone should be paid the same" is stupid. I just think that society could be a lot more free ultimately. How I would define anarchism is that every ideology believes that they can maximize freedom, anarchism just takes it to a level past liberalism. 

Stuff like being able to yell fire in a movie theater is obviously stupid, so noone believes in total freedom. Do I believe that a society where the state is shriveled up and noone is occupying the throne could be better? I do. Is it inherently better? Hell no, youre going to get a void filled in by something worse or RAZ like 9/10. To reach the point where your group of people, society, or whatever can function without a centralized lynchpin dictating everything, that takes a lot of work and a very, very responsible population. Thats really my goal, organization as horizontal and responsible as possible, and away from the state. Something more akin to the amish I guess.


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## Erika Furudo (Feb 19, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> *anarchist stuff*


Ok, but how exactly can you be doing all of that? Even people like Null still need people to host his content, create teh hardware, etc. You say people should have more individual power, and sure. But given how complex everything is, that just isn't going to happen. You may know about cars, but I doubt you know how to build one from scratch, or design a new one, make the alloy, etc. We are at the level where people have to be specialized, and we have to rely on others to do things we don't understand. Medicine, infrastructure, etc. It's just impossible, even if you wanted to go fully independent, chances are it will be using solar pannels built in a chinese sweatshop and and maybe some computer stuff made by another corporation in Vietnam. 

Most people don't know how it works, so we can't really be that independent, it's the price we pay for advanced technology, and you can't garuntee that those corporations aren't putting in spyware or backdoors. I think it's pretty much impossible to be truly independent in this world, and it will be increasingly impossible as time goes on.


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 19, 2021)

Fully agree, I'm not touting being a luddite or anarcho primitivism or anything like that.

Diversification is great, I fully embrace that. I probably side more with the libertarians view on that one. I don't mind corporations, my preference is for ones that are more socially conscious, tied to local communities, and if possible maybe a bit more horizontal with decision making- especially on decisions affecting workers livelihoods. Syndicalism, in a way.

I think that we used to have more horizontal decision making in practice when we had more unions, not on everything, but the really important things- ie, if you wanted to make a decision to fire 20% of the workforce due to bad revenue, you'd first need to talk to the union to do that, in the past. I don't think unions are ever going to come back, and they also had their own problems, but I do think having corporations or organizations that are more horizontal on major things like that, and do have decent enough worker input entrenched somewhere for decisions directly affecting employment, should be more of a thing. Like the entire way amazon or uber are, how workers have basically no say in anything and don't even have rights as actual workers (theyre just temps) disturbs me.

Capitalism isn't inherently evil. People who work harder deserve a bigger piece of the pie.

By independent, I don't mean that you should be a jack of all trades, Im more for society continues on, people organize and return to a more civic and community organization orientation, and when it comes to taxes- I either think situations in small towns with more direct democracy are a lot better to ensure that taxes arent wasted, or within bigger cities, we really, really, really need to curb the power we give to the state. Where I currently live, a few years ago our local municipal government increased taxes and dolled out millions to build light rail that noone actually used, took several years to build, simply just replaced 2 bus routes, and also put our entire downtown/uptown out of business for years during construction.

And they were able to do this without a referendum, without a plebicite, and it was essentially just gambling.

I just don't inherently like or trust authority or centralization, its often times very unjustified and those who occupy the throne often create situations where were more worse off than we were before.

I'm not saying abolish the state in any immediate fashion. We may not be able to, ever- but I def want to lessen the power and reliance we have on the state, and move away from centralization, not towards. In places where people are more rural, where they are more self reliant, yeah- I def think you have a higher chance of being able to do that and to a greater degree


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## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 19, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> The word sweatshop has actually fallen into disuse among the left because it now has a racist connotation.


The key reason as to why political correctness was even conceived. By making a word or meaning less "triggering" or offensive, it becomes vague, confusing and muddies the actual context behind what is actually being described. 

Sooner or later, "pedophilia" or "pedophile" will be replaced with something less "judging". Not understanding that long term effects are always going to be disastrous. 

This utopian, hyper idealistic framework they're running on can only be achieved by totalitarian means. The frightening thing is that nihilistic kids think it's cool and "in" to want people to be completely compliant with the establishment. They've been completely brainwashed by sellouts and cowards who either grew out of their principles or were always opportunistic cunts riding a long con.


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## Drain Todger (Feb 19, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> The key reason as to why political correctness was even conceived. By making a word or meaning less "triggering" or offensive, it becomes vague, confusing and muddies the actual context behind what is actually being described.
> 
> Sooner or later, "pedophilia" or "pedophile" will be replaced with something less "judging". Not understanding that long term effects are always going to be disastrous.
> 
> This utopian, hyper idealistic framework they're running on can only be achieved by totalitarian means. The frightening thing is that nihilistic kids think it's cool and "in" to want people to be completely compliant with the establishment. They've been completely brainwashed by sellouts and cowards who either grew out of their principles or were always opportunistic cunts riding a long con.


They’ve already invented a less judgmental term for pedophiles. MAP, or minor-attracted person. I shit you not.

The euphemism treadmill is all about concealing ugliness, and in so doing, removing any of the emotional impact that the words may have had on the listener. George Carlin had a good bit on that. I wish he was still alive. He would have ripped the Wokesters a new asshole or two.






The establishment is trash. It’s always been trash. The alliance between liberals and progressives to “protect democracy” against the right is one of the most appalling things I’ve ever seen. What democracy? The democracy of Amazon and Walmart? The democracy of extraordinary rendition, rectal feeding, and spooks smuggling cocaine on turboprops? What is there to preserve? What is there to defend?

You know, I frequently see right-wingers being accused of being in a cult, but I think that’s backwards. Liberals are in a cult. They’ve turned finance and bureaucracy into religions with a priestly caste and inviolable places of worship. You can criticize phony elected officials and the fake political theater they put on all you want, but raise a word of protest against civil servants and oligarchs and shady government contractors and the NGOs they use to control and manipulate people, and whoops. Now you’re outside the Overton Window. Now you’re a crank. After all, what manner of awful misanthrope would lambaste philanthropists and learned men of character?






Who, indeed?


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## Dom Cruise (Feb 19, 2021)

It's gone, it was entirely subverted by corporations, they turned their worst enemies into their greatest allies, stop and think how creepy that is that they have that level of power with brainwashing.

But it didn't even take that much hard work to do it, all they had to was slap a rainbow on their logo, Tweet #BlackLivesMatter and be sure to frame who is the bad guy ("you don't want to be like GAMERGATE/CHARLOTTESVILLE/CAPITAL RIOT now do you?") and suddenly you can't even imagine a world where leftists would riot in protest of something like the WTO anymore, it's funny how that works.

What is going on the 21st century is Marxism and Capitalism is combining together, as insane as that is, as contradictory as it sounds, it's literally what's happening.

And it's already happened in China, China is the blueprint for America and the rest of the world in the 21st century, where it's a socialist government but with tons of corporations and capitalism, but a cultural climate akin to Soviet Russia with how you can be punished for wrong think.

It's the worst of both worlds, think the mindless consumerism of Idiocracy but where you can get your face busted in for daring to criticize it, "there's that problematic talk again, bro"


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## DeadFish (Feb 20, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> Fully agree, I'm not touting being a luddite or anarcho primitivism or anything like that.
> 
> Diversification is great, I fully embrace that. I probably side more with the libertarians view on that one. I don't mind corporations, my preference is for ones that are more socially conscious, tied to local communities, and if possible maybe a bit more horizontal with decision making- especially on decisions affecting workers livelihoods. Syndicalism, in a way.
> 
> ...


Don't worry. The state will abolish itself.
Over time the resources to sustain it will run out. We will go back to primitivism.

Eventually we will lose the ability to understand the concept of a state or property as well.

Why? The resources to sustain our current intelligence will dwindle and our intellect will reflect these new material conditions

We will return to banging rocks.
We will return to monkey eventually.

It will all work out in the end


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## Aldeland (Feb 20, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> Sooner or later, "pedophilia" or "pedophile" will be replaced with something less "judging". Not understanding that long term effects are always going to be disastrous.


When this happens, and it will happen with the direction we are going in, I'm going to go live in a cabin in the middle of the woods. My daily outfit will consist of a grey hooded sweatshirt and sunglasses.


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## Niggernerd (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes, Tim the fool pool always lets us know he is a true and honest liberal.


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## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 20, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> They’ve already invented a less judgmental term for pedophiles. MAP, or minor-attracted person. I shit you not.


I'm aware.


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 20, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> You know, I frequently see right-wingers being accused of being in a cult, but I think that’s backwards. Liberals are in a cult. They’ve turned finance and bureaucracy into religions with a priestly caste and inviolable places of worship. You can criticize phony elected officials and the fake political theater they put on all you want, but raise a word of protest against civil servants and oligarchs and shady government contractors and the NGOs they use to control and manipulate people, and whoops. Now you’re outside the Overton Window. Now you’re a crank. After all, what manner of awful misanthrope would lambaste philanthropists and learned men of character?



Its a cult and its byzantine in nature, I genuinely think politics today resembles the Byzantine chariot teams based political clubs more and more. Really our electoral system can be summed up as it being such a team sport that its more about the other side losing than it is about yours winning, aka Joe Biden.

Theres just so much virtue signaling and so many emotional responses that pillow the cult, on both sides but especially the left now, that you don't really get any meaningful discourse.

Ie: With BLM there probably were some legitimate issues we should have addressed with judicial reform. Something that should be pretty obvious is that our justice system doesn't function well with regards to public defenders. Public defenders are often the bottom of the barrel in terms of lawyers and can often be people who have nowhere else to go within their law career. Our system seems to have tons of people who relied on public defenders and who went to jail for crimes that people who could afford a better lawyer got off on. You have the money to afford a better lawyer? The chances that youll get a lesser sentence just increase by that much. At its core, it should be a class issue, an issue of wealth versus poverty- but no, we can never have that. Something that should be obvious that we need to reform.

What does BLM do? They declare the basic emotional response of "Da reeson why black people in jail is cause judges is racist, this white person got off on similar charges because racis, it has nothing ta do with them having a competent lawyer". This just gets further reinforced with cult like behavior, hugboxes, and an inability to take criticism. You try and say "hold up a moment, it has less to do with racism more to do with" and they just freak out over the wrong think. I don't think Ive seen anyone able to actually address any actual systemic issues in any concrete way because everything has to be about race. People are so caught up in race and using race to explain every systemic problem, that they are unable to actually get to the real root of anything and actually address it. Ive seen people say that black people need more leniency for crimes to address "systemic racism" and its mind blowingly infuriating.

Now you have actual politicians embracing this rhetoric, which because its cultlike theyre beyond the pale and if you question their logic youre decried a pariah. If I was more conspiratorial, Id say its a push by liberal politicians to distract people from addressing real issues within class, but I think theyre just grifters who see something they can successfully use, nothing more cynical than that. Really sucks, because a lot of the left wing is effectively very dead because of the racialist cult.


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## Drain Todger (Feb 20, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> Its a cult and its byzantine in nature, I genuinely think politics today resembles the Byzantine chariot teams based political clubs more and more. Really our electoral system can be summed up as it being such a team sport that its more about the other side losing than it is about yours winning, aka Joe Biden.
> 
> Theres just so much virtue signaling and so many emotional responses that pillow the cult, on both sides but especially the left now, that you don't really get any meaningful discourse.
> 
> ...


The thing about the racism argument is that it can be twisted and contorted to fit just about any scenario. For instance, in your example there about the difference between getting a public defender and hiring a competent lawyer, one might argue that the reason why black people can’t afford decent lawyers is because employers are racist and won’t hire them for high-paying jobs so they could have money to afford one. It’s a self-sealing argument. 

Never mind that employers nowadays are obsessed with affirmative action, diversity training, and implicit bias bullshit. Never mind that everyone’s resumes are rejected and _nobody_ can get a fucking job, regardless of the color of their skin. We are told over and over again that there’s nothing wrong with the economy, and that racism is the real problem.

It’s cynical, shortsighted, and divisive, and it does nothing but benefit the rich and the powerful and excuse their abuses towards _all _working-class people by framing it as a completely different issue.






We are living in an increasingly virtualized and automated society that is less and less reliant on our individual labor. If they raise the minimum wage, then McDonalds will be staffed by voice-activated ordering systems and automated burger conveyor belts.






This should be a good thing. I mean, we’ve saved labor and can redistribute that labor elsewhere, right? However, in practice, what we are seeing is the elimination of thousands and thousands of unskilled (and even some skilled) jobs, coupled with a rising population. Because of how capitalism works, you have to prove to others that you’re worthy of food, clothing, and shelter by standing in a cubicle and ritually moving your limbs. If someone doesn’t let you do that, you starve in the street. What gives?






Work is not intrinsically valuable. If you have a way to obtain the same wealth with less effort, then there’s no reason why people should have to slave away at unfulfilling, pointless tasks to enjoy the benefits of that technology. A lot of conservatives these days are stuck in that whole Mike Rowe work ethic thing and shun any talk of basic income as communism. They don’t understand that we‘ve created a society where you literally cannot be a Paul Bunyan type and raise a family on a menial laborer’s wage even if you voluntarily wanted to, as strange as that may sound.

Even welfare has its drawbacks. The wealthy want it because it’s a government subsidy. There is some truth in that one StoneToss comic. Why do you think a deep state lackey like Andrew Yang wants UBI so badly? Imagine you’re a billionaire, and the government comes up to you and says “We’re going to pay a portion of your workers’ wages using tax money so you don’t have to pay them so much”. You would be fucking delighted. Now, paying people a living wage is somebody else’s problem.




What happened during the GameStop short squeeze debacle was fucking grotesque. A bunch of hedge fund managers whined about awful poors hating rich people. The White House put pressure on brokerages, and brokerages sold their customers’ stock without their permission. Imagine that. Imagine being a maid in a hotel, cleaning up after people’s one-night stands and their filth, and being paid $7 an hour for the privilege, and then, imagine being some fucking worthless fucking hedge fund manager cunt who contributes absolutely fucking nothing to society whatsoever, who profited to the tune of billions of dollars from short-selling failing businesses during a pandemic, and yet, the one single time you lose the game, you can get the fucking government to change the rules for you so you’re winning again. Imagine being so wealthy and powerful, you cannot fail no matter what you do. There will always be someone ready to stand you back up and fill your pockets with the money you lost.

That’s what real oppression looks like.


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## Syntaxion (Feb 20, 2021)

This has been the case for a while.

I think it was Gramsci, who, many many years ago started pondering why Marxism failed to capture the hearts of people. He and his ilk came to the conclusion that it wasn't Marxism that was wrong, but the people. Their culture promoted the oppression that was seen throughout Europe. Thus, the solution wasn't to promote equality and Marxist ideals through economical changes - but through cultural changes. Hence you got identity politics (although in itself, identity politics is far older but it wasn't cememted as a belief system I think)

Either way, it was fairly unknown and for long, most leftists continued preaching economic change and equality. It kept brewing for a while though, feminism is centered on women, it's identity politics itself - and feminists and leftism tend to overlap.

Personally, I think this all started, or technically ended, with Occupy Wall-Street. People were pissed, and rigteously so, by the bank bailouts and everyone else getting fucked over. It was mostly economical, but according to anecdotes, it started to push for more identity politics, more women, more non-whites, less men, less whites, etc etc etc and over time, the movement collapsed unto itself and it was left a failure.

Consider it coincidence, consider it done on purpose by the FBI or whatever, but OWS made it obvious - actual leftist, anti-rich movements can be killed and neutered with identity politics.

And thus:



Spoiler: some info


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 20, 2021)

I just got blackpilled on a lot of things tbh, and am trying to be more whitepilled now. 

Aye though, our economies are in shambles and neoliberalism has basically damned a lot of jobs and communities. Its part of why I did somewhat appreciate seeing Trump of all people add some tariffs, even though there wasn't much you could do to actually bring back jobs (foxconn, aka the Chinese suicide net company, coming to the US and hiring temp workers was not a long term solution for the midwest, as much as he'd like to parade it as such).

Either or, I lost faith in a lot of the lefts ability to think even remotely rationally with the BLM events this summer. 

Remember when Rand Paul was trying to pass legislation to bar no knock raids, and people still screamed at him because they wanted him or what he was doing to be racist in some way? Utter lunacy.


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## DeadFish (Feb 20, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> I just got blackpilled on a lot of things tbh, and am trying to be more whitepilled now.
> 
> Aye though, our economies are in shambles and neoliberalism has basically damned a lot of jobs and communities. Its part of why I did somewhat appreciate seeing Trump of all people add some tariffs, even though there wasn't much you could do to actually bring back jobs (foxconn, aka the Chinese suicide net company, coming to the US and hiring temp workers was not a long term solution for the midwest, as much as he'd like to parade it as such).
> 
> ...


Ok so left right stuff seems be falling apart.

I had to make up my own idea.
Tell me if you like this or it's retarded.

The current issue with america is the left has been hi jacked by the very forces it was meant to counter. It's no longer about class but a tool of the rich to opress the working class under the guise of liberating them.

The american right is about libertarian values, conserving culture and free market capitalism. Due to technology, efforts of the left and capitalism those values have been destroyed. 

So what there for someone concerned about class?

What about replacing the left right dictomany with a new one?

What about big versus small society?

The reasons I propose a change out of the left vs right dictomany with big versus small is:
The uniparty uses left vs right dictomany as a means to control. It a propaganda meme. Despite the shit show of recent election people will vote republican out of the illusion they have no choice. The thing is the plutocrats who hate the everyday american own both parties. It's like choosing between a wolf and a fox. The working class gets burned.

By switching out left right dictomany with big vs small you destroy one big of the unipartys means of controlling the masses.

The second reason for small vs big is due to practical reasons. It's far easier to create a 25 person group for a small business (or whatever reason it's formed) and live within a bigger society then it is to change a larger society. It's easier to take over a city block no one's cares about versus an entire city.

Draws less attention. A small group can work longer without being in the spot light. Why did o w s fail? Because the movement became well known. Once a movement is well known it gets hijacked by other factions, agents both government and private, gets shaped by a hostile media, attention seekers and other disruptive elements. So keeping a low profile helps. Staying small helps.

Flexibility. The goal of a big small dictomanist is change the world to be more fitting for small and more personal (this meaningful) societies. This allows for idealogical and orginazaintion flexibility. As long the found can gather up and lead a group of 150 people then it can be anything they want. A gay commune of 150 sharing the same house as room mates to reduce cost? Fine. It a small gun meet every week in the woods between five skin heads? That's fine. 10 people at Google decided to embezzle funds. Fine. As long the group is working towards changing the world where small societies thrive and large scale ones don't then it's good to go.

It fits the average normies mindset. Beckie at work might be clueless about what's going on in the senate. Yet she's a genius at office politics. She knows who fucking who. Whose getting a raise. Whose getting fired. People on average find the impersonal and large scale intimating and incomprehensible. Yet the same skills needed to be a d.c activist are the same skills they apply for everyday life. It's just they Excell on a smaller and more personal scale.

A small vs big dictomanist realizes the modern project for universalism has failed. We see this all the time in current politics. Right wing can't say why crime is so high among blacks but antifa can burn down black owned businesses.
Rules for thee not for me.

Why fight it? 
Least with a small group the only people you have to care about is those in your group and treat outsiders as you please. This what the every day person wants. Everyone deep down inside want to be the pimp and make everyone else their bitch. 

It's more sustainable for a small group to fund positive rights for themselves then it is for a large group.

Choosing leadership is easy. Either you have the chops to get 150 peeps to follow you or you don't.

Crime and punishment is easy. Someone making sexist remarks? Exile them. Got a thief? Force them to steal from outsiders for group benefit and not from group members. Leadership shitty? Walk away or strangle them in their sleep.


A small group can have socialist programs funded by leeching off the larger society. 

So what do you think? I'm being a spergy dumbass or something worth considering?


----------



## DiscoRodeo (Feb 20, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> What about replacing the left right dictomany with a new one?
> 
> What about big versus small society?


I agree with the left vs right dichotomy being outdated on a lot of things and not even particularly descriptive. I try and avoid it, though if I am going into the four quadrants thing- I'd gravitate more towards a dichotomy of freedom versus authority being more important. People talk about left unity between anarchists and marxists, but I see libertarians as having a lot more in common with anarchists interests than I see the Marxists as having. Also, anarchists basically no longer exist in the left. "Anarchists" now are just people who fetishize the ideology, while wanting to shove their views down people's throats. Isn't the point of anarchism to let people choose themselves? I think thats a lot safer, considering I'm the first to admit that my views may not work for everyone and I may even be wrong on certain things. While I think I may be right on others- we're a lot safer when we have the options to choose instead of having things forced on us. Its why libertarians and a more freedom oriented axis better speaks to that, because the big problem I can see today is, yeah- there are class issues, but people wanting more authority and more centralizing in order to address these things are just setting themselves up for disaster, corruption, bureaucracy, or grifters.


DeadFish said:


> Draws less attention. A small group can work longer without being in the spot light. Why did o w s fail? Because the movement became well known. Once a movement is well known it gets hijacked by other factions, agents both government and private, gets shaped by a hostile media, attention seekers and other disruptive elements. So keeping a low profile helps. Staying small helps.


Thats sort of why I try and stay out of mass movements and why I've grown to like the Christians and how they do help their community/have an appreciation for them now. I think ironically, they did a full 180 in the 2010s and their soup kitchens, drives for haiti or cancer, etc are really wholesome and I havn't really seen much virtue signaling there and it does help ensure that the people who are there volunteering, are doing it for more genuine reasons and not because its hip. 

The funny thing about organizations like salvation army as well is, while the modern left likes to scream about discrimination and all that jazz, at the end of the day- Salvation army is actually out there helping homeless people and are pretty successful at it regardless of how much the left hates them. The left? You get some good volunteer initiatives in small groups sometimes, but as a whole their altruism only goes as far as what conveniences them, which is usually just buying fair trade coffee at best, and then trying to shame people on twitter. 

I agree with you at the end of the day. Things should be on the down low and you do have a better chance of accomplishing something the more organized and consistent you are. Having a smaller group of people makes that a lot easier.


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## Vulva Gape (Feb 20, 2021)

It actually does. If you're basing your view on the left on lolcows and degenerates, you'll fail to see that most people on the left just want social equality and a better social safety net. The average Democrat voter doesn't want to put your 5 year old kid on puberty blockers. The woketards can go to hell though.


----------



## DeadFish (Feb 20, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> I agree with the left vs right dichotomy being outdated on a lot of things and not even particularly descriptive. I try and avoid it, though if I am going into the four quadrants thing- I'd gravitate more towards a dichotomy of freedom versus authority being more important. People talk about left unity between anarchists and marxists, but I see libertarians as having a lot more in common with anarchists interests than I see the Marxists as having. Also, anarchists basically no longer exist in the left. "Anarchists" now are just people who fetishize the ideology, while wanting to shove their views down people's throats. Isn't the point of anarchism to let people choose themselves? I think thats a lot safer, considering I'm the first to admit that my views may not work for everyone and I may even be wrong on certain things. While I think I may be right on others- we're a lot safer when we have the options to choose instead of having things forced on us. Its why libertarians and a more freedom oriented axis better speaks to that, because the big problem I can see today is, yeah- there are class issues, but people wanting more authority and more centralizing in order to address these things are just setting themselves up for disaster, corruption, bureaucracy, or grifters.
> 
> Thats sort of why I try and stay out of mass movements and why I've grown to like the Christians and how they do help their community/have an appreciation for them now. I think ironically, they did a full 180 in the 2010s and their soup kitchens, drives for haiti or cancer, etc are really wholesome and I havn't really seen much virtue signaling there and it does help ensure that the people who are there volunteering, are doing it for more genuine reasons and not because its hip.
> 
> ...


What I'm sayings replace current dichotomy with new one. I suggest big vs small. A green anarchist named le o pold wrote a book about it.

By constantly attacking big systems so small societies will be the only ones left might be the way to go and try


My sperging in previous post was an attempt to sell you on reasons why


150 seems be the scientific limit where a group can remain personal. Beyond that it gets abstract and systematic. Also exploitive and parasitical


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## teriyakiburns (Feb 20, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> The funny thing about organizations like salvation army as well is, while the modern left likes to scream about discrimination and all that jazz, at the end of the day- Salvation army is actually out there helping homeless people and are pretty successful at it regardless of how much the left hates them.


The antifa-aligned left spends a lot of time anguishing about how groups like the Salvation Army are out _recruiting the vulnerable_ with their charity, showing a kind face and making convincing people that _fascism is good_ with their kind acts (because they're obviously fascists, don't you know), but their response isn't to try and out-compete them with left-wing charity and social service. Nope. All they do is try and tear it all down. They don't want to help people, they just want to prove themselves righteous by destroying the works of their enemies.

I'm really not kidding. Any charity that isn't 100% in lockstep with their specific goals is literally evil in their eyes and has to be destroyed. If it means a few homless people starve, well that's just the price of revolution, comrade.


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## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 20, 2021)

Vulva Gape said:


> It actually does. If you're basing your view on the left on lolcows and degenerates, you'll fail to see that most people on the left just want social equality and a better social safety net. The average Democrat voter doesn't want to put your 5 year old kid on puberty blockers. The woketards can go to hell though.


I'd like to believe that the average Democrat doesn't want to see a kid be groomed into believing that they're a D&D OC and drugged up their asscrack with high grade aphrodisiacs and hallucinogens.


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## Vulva Gape (Feb 20, 2021)

You think the Demonrats are in bed with antifa and BLM and the troons but they really despise them. So no we aren't retarded, also the election wasn't stolen you qtards can seethe about it all you want.


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## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 20, 2021)

Vulva Gape said:


> You think the Demonrats are in bed with antifa and BLM and the troons but they really despise them. So no we aren't retarded, also the election wasn't stolen you qtards can seethe about it all you want.


I... never brought up the elections or Q.


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## Secret Asshole (Feb 20, 2021)

The 'left', just like the 'right' are conglomerates. Just like the right has Traditional Conservatives, Neo-Cons, Libertarians, Religious Right and Populists, the left has Progressives, Conservative Liberals, Socialists, Communists, Neo-Libs, Classist Liberals and populist.

I consider myself a left-wing populist. By what I mean by that, it is the government's function to serve the will of the people. I don't believe in any privilege except class privilege. I believe discrimination, racism, sexism and the like can be cured not through feel good legislation, but equal access to wealth. The police don't shoot down rich black men, do they? When we see those shootings, the news looks over one big point: It is always the poor who bear the brunt of police violence. Maybe there is still some discrimination left over, but I believe the equation is poverty. Its the same with white police shootings.

I believe the ultra-ultra wealthy are a criminal class who are determined to keep everyone down and their wealth needs to be reduced. Income inequality is the root of all evil, and debt is the boot they put around people's necks. 25% interest rates on credit cards, un-dischargable student loan debt at 9-10%, predatory lending practices, using the American people as their own personal bank when they fuck up. I believe, in all seriousness, that most should be executed or jailed. I believe in outlawing so-called 'vulture capatalists', those who prey on countries or businesses and use them as a function to line their own pockets, like Romney's Bain Capital. This faggot acts like a hero, but he's destroyed lives at the cost of the people. Again, criminal. 

I don't believe in critical theory or progressivism, which pushes me out of the so-called left. I would not be considered a leftist by modern standards.

The current modern left is controlled by the DNC. The DNC is a neo-liberal organization that crushes strong left-wing populists and makes them weak. Their support of the so-called progressives is fake. It is a move to empower useful idiots and spoiled, retarded children as their personal army. Critical theory is used as an exclusionary method to root out any intelligence that would challenge domination of the status-quo. Most neo-liberals who control the DNC are from prominent political families or sucked the right cocks to come up in it (Kamilia Harris, who isn't even a real person. If the DNC could be a human, it would be Harris. She has no will of her own. That and she's a fucking prosecutor, the definition of human trash). 

Critical theory, like Idpol, is meant to divide strong populists and strong candidates who aren't neo-liberal, out of the party. Neo-libs don't care its making people fucking retarded, its serving its purpose as recruitment and division. If you think the DNC actually gives a fuck about anti-fags and BLM....fucking lol. They're the idiots, instantly discarded once in power. And when questioned, the neo-libs smile and say "What are you going to do, vote for Trump?" 

So the left, who holds the keys to power, are the neo-liberals. You can thank both Clintons for this. They purged and transformed the DNC into neo-liberal fucking hell, much like George W. Bush transformed the RNC into a neo-con fucking lemon party. Both should fucking burn in hell.


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 20, 2021)

Vulva Gape said:


> also the election wasn't stolen you qtards can seethe about it all you want.


Seems pretty stolen, tbh. Not that it really matters. Its like Yarvin says, politics is like waterpolo. Theres a ref and if anything is caught above the surface, youre out- but under the water the ref cant see whats going on, so both sides have to cheat. Donald Trump just didn't play that part of the game that well.


Vulva Gape said:


> You think the Demonrats are in bed with antifa and BLM and the troons but they really despise them


They're all the same liberal vein if you get to it. Most of BLM doesnt want anything outside of the liberal order, theyre just under the delusion that black people are being disproportionately targeted by the police among other things. Their end game seems to be "we want a society where black people can enjoy all the same liberal institutions white people can enjoy, institutions they_ totally_ do not have access to right now!" Some of them seem to think you need affirmative action to help with historic injustices and give black people a boost, but thats really the end game- a liberal society. 

I do think dems are in bed with them because they can entertain their fantasies that cops are constantly murdering black people the same way Trump entertained Q's fantasies, and because their end game doesnt really challenge anything they actually care about. Its all about black celebrities being in more movies and higher admission rates in universities, and theyll give them that for w.e reason, regardless of the problems. 

Im sure ivory tower liberals actually do probably see BLM for what they are and think theyre stupid, if you actually look into the stats theyre talking about- not only are they wrong, but amusingly so (ie, you have a greater chance of being killed by the cops in most places if youre white, almost as if cops are extra careful, more oft than not, not to be accussed of racism), but meh. They're pretty good tools to rile people up against the republicans, and thats the definition of being in bed with them.


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## Vulva Gape (Feb 20, 2021)

DiscoRodeo said:


> They're pretty good tools to rile people up against the republicans, and thats the definition of being in bed with them.


You think Nancy Pelosi actually cares about George Floyd? It's all to hold power. The socialist fags are just to raise money and get them elected. So don't worry about Joe Biden going full commie because it never will happen.

That's why Trump's campaign was totally retarded and he deserved to lose, calling your opponent a socialist or a radical when he's the definition of a milquetoast liberal is willfully disingenuous.


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 20, 2021)

Vulva Gape said:


> You think Nancy Pelosi actually cares about George Floyd? It's all to hold power.


Yes, thats what being in bed with them is. They may not like that theyre sleeping together, but they are- because sure, one side wants to use the other.


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## DeadFish (Feb 20, 2021)

Secret Asshole said:


> The 'left', just like the 'right' are conglomerates. Just like the right has Traditional Conservatives, Neo-Cons, Libertarians, Religious Right and Populists, the left has Progressives, Conservative Liberals, Socialists, Communists, Neo-Libs, Classist Liberals and populist.
> 
> I consider myself a left-wing populist. By what I mean by that, it is the government's function to serve the will of the people. I don't believe in any privilege except class privilege. I believe discrimination, racism, sexism and the like can be cured not through feel good legislation, but equal access to wealth. The police don't shoot down rich black men, do they? When we see those shootings, the news looks over one big point: It is always the poor who bear the brunt of police violence. Maybe there is still some discrimination left over, but I believe the equation is poverty. Its the same with white police shootings.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think the solution is fragment society to the point large systems cease functioning and thus stripping the power from owners of such systems


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## Biden's Chosen (Feb 22, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> I really think a lot of the Woke Left's views and how they simp for the same corporations they claim to nominally oppose is because they're all still on some level rebelling against the old Religious Right of their childhoods, particularly its final form it took in the Bush years.
> 
> They still view the Right as theocrats, which are largely extinct outside of a few Boomer and early Gen X incumbents in the South and some of the edgelord "traditionalist" /pol/ fags like Nick Fuentes, The Distributist, Thomas777, Vox Day, and several forum members on here.
> 
> ...



The kiwifarms website said you mentioned me but it's nowhere in your post. Are you hiding your power level?


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## Drain Todger (Feb 22, 2021)

Secret Asshole said:


> The 'left', just like the 'right' are conglomerates. Just like the right has Traditional Conservatives, Neo-Cons, Libertarians, Religious Right and Populists, the left has Progressives, Conservative Liberals, Socialists, Communists, Neo-Libs, Classist Liberals and populist.
> 
> I consider myself a left-wing populist. By what I mean by that, it is the government's function to serve the will of the people. I don't believe in any privilege except class privilege. I believe discrimination, racism, sexism and the like can be cured not through feel good legislation, but equal access to wealth. The police don't shoot down rich black men, do they? When we see those shootings, the news looks over one big point: It is always the poor who bear the brunt of police violence. Maybe there is still some discrimination left over, but I believe the equation is poverty. Its the same with white police shootings.
> 
> ...


I had someone call me antisemitic once just because I used the term usury. Seriously.

How else do you describe the system of debts that we live under, if not a usurious system? Real industries have been hollowed out. Factory jobs have dried up, or been offshored. Steel mills have disappeared. Unless you want to become a unionized tradie and pocket a big salary as a welder, plumber, electrician, whatever, you either end up slaving away in some bullshit service industry job, or in a technical field that requires a degree. A degree that will put you very deep in debt.

The whims of an out-of-control financial system and its beneficiaries have taken over our country and taken over our lives. That’s not an exaggeration. That’s a fact. The FIRE industry doesn’t produce anything. The emperor has no clothes. We’re expected to pretend as if Wall Street is what makes America prosperous, as opposed to being economic parasites and looters who ruthlessly extract value from working people.


Secret Asshole said:


> The current modern left is controlled by the DNC. The DNC is a neo-liberal organization that crushes strong left-wing populists and makes them weak. Their support of the so-called progressives is fake. It is a move to empower useful idiots and spoiled, retarded children as their personal army. Critical theory is used as an exclusionary method to root out any intelligence that would challenge domination of the status-quo. Most neo-liberals who control the DNC are from prominent political families or sucked the right cocks to come up in it (Kamilia Harris, who isn't even a real person. If the DNC could be a human, it would be Harris. She has no will of her own. That and she's a fucking prosecutor, the definition of human trash).
> 
> Critical theory, like Idpol, is meant to divide strong populists and strong candidates who aren't neo-liberal, out of the party. Neo-libs don't care its making people fucking retarded, its serving its purpose as recruitment and division. If you think the DNC actually gives a fuck about anti-fags and BLM....fucking lol. They're the idiots, instantly discarded once in power. And when questioned, the neo-libs smile and say "What are you going to do, vote for Trump?"
> 
> So the left, who holds the keys to power, are the neo-liberals. You can thank both Clintons for this. They purged and transformed the DNC into neo-liberal fucking hell, much like George W. Bush transformed the RNC into a neo-con fucking lemon party. Both should fucking burn in hell.


The third-way neoliberals are ivory-tower technocrats. They are friends to the financial and managerial classes and enemies of working-class people. They don’t think that working-class people deserve to know what it is that they do, because they think that it’s beyond our ken. Or, more to the point, they are afraid that we’d get justifiably angry if we knew.



			https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/on-the-origins-of-the-professional-managerial-class-an-interview-with-barbara-ehrenreich
		


Literally all of the problems with the way society is run right now can be traced to the meddling of the Professional-Managerial Class. They are the enemies of both left-wing and right-wing populists, sneering down at us from their lofty perch as they rifle through their meaningless statistics. They love the left-right divide because it keeps a cohesive populist movement that reaches across party lines from forming. Both left-wing and right-wing working-class people have been fucked by the Professional-Managerial Class and the New Democrats who represent them in America. They’ve acted as Wall Street‘s shield, allowing financial looting to continue unabated and allowing our wages to stagnate.

I would love nothing more than to see Nazis and Commies set aside their differences and lay the smackdown on these people.


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## Rungle (Feb 22, 2021)

The left degraded itself by being rabid virtue signallers.
Its the constant berating of people with: "If you don't agree with me, you are a bad person, and I will make sure everyone knows you are too"
The left cannot discuss problems anymore without calling you evil if you disagree.
Unlike the right, they cannot acknowledge every side has its bad eggs (Such as ANTIFA and BLM) and call you racist if you call people out on it.
I used to be a pretty lefty lad, but then Trump became president, and I saw everyone who was left-wing go ballistic, that's when the left left me.
It's okay to have opposing opinions, but please, do have something to back up those opinions when questioned about them instead of screaming how someone disagrees with you.


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## Soulless4510 (Feb 23, 2021)

Honestly, this country was gone a long time ago thanks to the great work of Edward Bernays and his use of psychological techniques in public relations


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## potato fan (Feb 23, 2021)

In my youth years, like many people, I used to be a (milquetoast) leftist, but it was 90's kind of leftism- "no wars, healthcare, international help for impoverished third world, social safety net, progressive taxation, not judging people by their skin color or sexual orientation, workers rights, everyone deserves respect as a human bean, and a helping from society if one falls on hard times etc etc", basically your basic 90's european socialist democrat stuff. 
Unfortunately leftism has changed and turned into some kind of political feverish nightmare fueled by increaseangly schizophrenic race and gender politics  
half of those things I listed are now considered racist, fascist and/or homophobic- nowadays you MUST judge people by skin color, with whites being demonized at every opportunity, white males the most, helping blacks or poor countries is racist, but so is not helping them, we must considere every man accused of rape as guilty, but then leftist men of prominence get a pass and the accuser gets attacked instead, social services should be prioritized based on race not on need, wars are not mentioned if it's a Democrat us president starting it, social safety net is a forgotten thing, and replaced with demands for money for "marginalized" racial and sexual groups, because fuck poor straight white people amirite? and "tax the rich" demand has been put into a backburner, and became more of an empty slogan, a nostalgic throwback to old-school leftism. Same for fdemands for livable minimum wage, somehow the demands for tranny reading hour being obligatory in every school are more visible and amplified than demands to be paid enough to survive. 

And I'd be ok if all that was happening in the US only, but the worst part is that, ironically, it's the US that nowadays sets the tone for worldwide leftist movements. So all that schizo shit somehow gets exported to all other countries. Activist media talk less about workers safety laws and more about the need to teach men to sit while peeing. Even crap that is very specific to US social and historical realities, and doesn't translate well to other places. Due to that fuckers Floyd death, there were protests "against police brutality towards blacks" in countries that doesn't have sizeable black population nor police brutality problems, attracting people in thousands. Meanwhile protests against real societal problems, like lawless evictions of poor people, or failing healthcare attract tens of activists at best.


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## Juan's Sombrero (Feb 23, 2021)

I keep running into tankie and antifa spergs who keep yapping about bringing down or "reforming" (lol) state capitalism. Not understanding that it's literally communism, only less honest.

Can anyone make sense of this bullshit?


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## potato fan (Feb 23, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> I keep running into tankie and antifa spergs who keep yapping about bringing down or "reforming" (lol) state capitalism. Not understanding that it's literally communism, only less honest.
> 
> Can anyone make sense of this bullshit?


antifas are usually idealistic but naive and/or stupid, while tankies are always evil, sociopathic and stupid. I would not waste time on deciphering anything they say, as their actions always boil down to "beat up people who don't agree with us" for antifas and "let the Great Purge start!" for tankies anyways.


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## Super-Chevy454 (Feb 23, 2021)

potato fan said:


> antifas are usually idealistic but naive and/or stupid, while tankies are always evil, sociopathic and stupid. I would not waste time on deciphering anything they say, as their actions always boil down to "beat up people who don't agree with us" for antifas and "let the Great Purge start!" for tankies anyways.


At this rate, I could said they're both naive and stupid.  

I saw by luck, this opinion about what happened to the "left" in French and translated in English.  Some of his points fit right in this thread.



> *Do you know what movie I would show my students if I were a political science teacher? Sorry We Missed You , by Ken Loach.*
> 
> I would say to them: "You want to know what values the left defended before the advent of the Woke movement? Well, watch this movie.
> 
> ...


----------



## Xerxes IX (Feb 23, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> Literally all of the problems with the way society is run right now can be traced to the meddling of the Professional-Managerial Class. They are the enemies of both left-wing and right-wing populists, sneering down at us from their lofty perch as they rifle through their meaningless statistics. They love the left-right divide because it keeps a cohesive populist movement that reaches across party lines from forming. Both left-wing and right-wing working-class people have been fucked by the Professional-Managerial Class and the New Democrats who represent them in America. They’ve acted as Wall Street‘s shield, allowing financial looting to continue unabated and allowing our wages to stagnate.


Reminds me of the so called "leftist" useful idiots during the GME short squeeze who were crying about nooooooo you can't laugh at ultra rich people getting fucked for once, here's why that's BAD. And at the same time the MSM was of course taking Wall Street's side and blaming Trumpism of all things for what was hapoening to the stock market and not the vulture capitalists who shorted a stock so much people noticed.


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## IAmNotAlpharius (Feb 23, 2021)

It’s not a new thing...  I’ll try to dig up an article I read a few years back. Basically, it described how frequently socialist rebellions in the 19th and 20th centuries would start in the fringes of society, like border towns, the poor, rural communities, etc, but eventually they’d get coopted by urban centers, previous incarnations of bugmen, and bureaucrats.... To make matters worse. if the rebellion was succesful the new ruling class would fuck over the fringes even more.


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## Drain Todger (Feb 23, 2021)

Xerxes IX said:


> Reminds me of the so called "leftist" useful idiots during the GME short squeeze who were crying about nooooooo you can't laugh at ultra rich people getting fucked for once, here's why that's BAD. And at the same time the MSM was of course taking Wall Street's side and blaming Trumpism of all things for what was hapoening to the stock market and not the vulture capitalists who shorted a stock so much people noticed.


Forbes had this to say on the matter:









						Ignore The Populist GameStop Hype. Short Sellers Are Heroes
					

Short seller are price givers, and the economy couldn’t function without them.




					www.forbes.com
				






> Short sellers don’t drive down markets in vicious fashion as much as their presence as size sellers is a happy sign of growing buying power in size. Again, buying is an essential part of any short sell.
> 
> After which it’s time for everyone to get real. Prices are the way that market economies organize themselves. It’s through prices arrived at freely that retailers know which items to stock and which ones to not, plus it’s through share prices that those with precious capital to allocate know where investment is needed, where it isn’t, where it will be wasted (think mortgages back in 200, and where it will be rewarded. Without honest prices in the marketplace, the economy and stock market would plummet.
> 
> Please keep this in mind as pundits make their silly arguments about GameStop’s price action signaling a shift of power away from hedge funds, and back to the little guy. Such a view isn’t true, plus it ignores the heroics of short sellers. They’re in truth price givers, and the economy couldn’t function without them.











						If You Don’t Like Short Sellers, Then You Wish Blockbuster, NetZero And Circuit City Still Existed
					

Short sellers are corporate watchdogs. They protect consumers and shareholders alike from laziness inside the C-suite.




					www.forbes.com
				






> Really, does anyone think short sellers didn’t work their magic in helping put Blockbuster out to pasture, or Circuit City, or Borders Books? Barnes & Noble is privately owned now, but does anyone think short sellers weren’t short B&N BKS 0.0% shares as Amazon increasingly signaled its ability to run circles around what represented (and represents) the past?
> 
> It’s come out in recent days that short sellers are viewed negatively by many, but those who feel this way seemingly haven’t thought about what life and living standards would be like without the market regulation that short sellers bring to the marketplace. They quite simply keep businesses honest.
> 
> This is important when it’s remembered that short sellers aren’t just taking the biggest of big risks in selling shares short. What they’re doing is forcing businesses to either improve the customer experience, or be replaced by a business that will.



The Left I knew from before all this woke garbage would have taken Forbes to _pieces _for this bullshit. Wall Street hedge funds took beloved American brands that still employ thousands of people, and they looted them to fill their pockets while destroying those people’s jobs. In the middle of a goddamn pandemic. Now, I bet they’d be like, “Only gamer manchildren care about GameStop”, and then proceed to whine that /wsb/ are evil Nazis bullying those poor hedge funds.

Everyone loved being able to browse books in Barnes & Noble. Now, we pay Jeffy B, that bald fucking Lex Luthor, for our books, and we don’t get to sit down and read them beforehand and decide whether or not they belong on our bookshelves. Aside from a little tiny excerpt from the beginning, you basically have to buy them blind.

While America suffered, this rich, bald cunt in a giant robot made billions of dollars off of the purchases of millions of scared and isolated people.




The Left that I remember from back in the day would have had something to say about all this that isn’t intersectional drivel.


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## DiscoRodeo (Feb 24, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> I keep running into tankie and antifa spergs who keep yapping about bringing down or "reforming" (lol) state capitalism. Not understanding that it's literally communism, only less honest.
> 
> Can anyone make sense of this bullshit?


They imagine the equation suddenly becomes any different if industries are "nationalized and worker controlled".

Meanwhile, if you actually look at places like East Germany, Poland, etc during their communist era, just because factories were nationalized and state controlled didn't make people really any happier.

There's this anecdote I remember hearing about that I'm going to butcher, on East Germany, where someone was visiting a well off friends family in the early 80s. The family were proud of their East German state and factories, proud of their role in the socialist utopia. They had some trad dinner,  and then the mother was like "I have a very special treat for you", and bitch just pulls out some shriveled looking orange and "Look at this proud product of socialism, from Crimean SSR" and the people actually seemed to think this was special.

Ultimately, tankie spergs hate to hear this, but people like having cheap and accessible commodities. Its like when soviet era politicians would come to the US in the late 80s, see a supermarket, and just realize that communism was over.

There are some things socialism does do better. In the USSR, homelessness was practically eradicated- and thats a very serious thing. But, on that note, you also had major problems, major abuses of liberties, lack of competition, increased costs to produce commodities, little to no commodities, etc. In East Germany, even if you were "rich" and in a high position, it could take years for the order for a new car to actually get processed.

You could probably reform state capitalism, its a lot better than "bringing it down", but the things proposed to "reform" it are rarely based in reality. I still volunteer with a co-op, most of them fail and utterly suck (the one I'm with actually does work pretty well). All the mutualist stuff, worker control, "direct democracy in the workplace", its all meme shit that almost always turns into a shitshow.

These activists also deny that people, as much as its unequal, really do enjoy the standard of life we have. Noone wants McDonalds to cost $40 a meal, noone wants having a shriveled orange to be a "special and rare treat". Almost everything these people propose would basically guarantee that.

Theres stuff you maybe could argue, in an age where unions are dead (and there was a fair amount of corruption in them), workers probably do need some form of collective bargaining (ie, if a workplace wants to layoff 20% of their staff, it used to be that they'd have to negotiate with a union and have a valid reason. Now, Activision can report increased earnings at a record high, and then they lay off half the blizzard staff and hire temps from Malaysia to make wc3: refunded). Temp/gig workers (amazon, uber, etc) should have better protections & contracts from their employers. Maybe we could reform things to make it so the proles paid less taxes than they are now.

Ultimately, the tankie/antifa sperging just occurs because these people are politically illiterate, economically illiterate, and just want some meme fantasy that actually has no place in reality. For every "worker progress" you have to be aware that you may have to sacrifice productivity, you may make commodities more expensive, etc. If you can figure out ways to better workers lives without making things expensive, thats what reforming capitalism should be about. To these people though, its not. Thats why their meme ideology is garbage and distracts from actual stuff that could make things suck just a bit less from happening, because actual realistic reform is never on the radar to these people jumping on literally the most sensational and cleaved from actual reality ideas.


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## Minionlover98 (Mar 3, 2021)

Sexy Senior Citizen said:


> View attachment 1932676


Expect they don't? 

I never understood the "corporations are in the side of the left!" 

When reality when if you actually see what they do there marginalized works or the shit they make, it's pretty obvious that they don't care about them / actively hate them 

If this was really the case, ViacomCBS should have banned South Park about now and McDonald's would have given every of there trans workers free days off or something

You only think Corporations are "woke" because Corporations are now understanding that liberals and progressives have money a slightly lounder then the right 

And even then, there are overwhelming amount of right leaning companies that are being made everyday to pander to the opposite


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## Sexy Senior Citizen (Mar 3, 2021)

Minionlover98 said:


> Expect they don't?
> 
> I never understood the "corporations are in the side of the left!"
> 
> ...


Not all of them, obviously. But big ones that dominate the culture- Disney, Apple, Coca-Cola, Google- lean noticeably to the Left.


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## Wormy (Mar 4, 2021)

Sexy Senior Citizen said:


> Not all of them, obviously. But big ones that dominate the culture- Disney, Apple, Coca-Cola, Google- lean noticeably to the Left.


But we leftists are supposedly out to destroy capitalism! Why would they side with that?


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## Juan's Sombrero (Mar 4, 2021)

RabidWombat said:


> But we leftists are supposedly out to destroy capitalism! Why would they side with that?


Subversion.


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## Sexy Senior Citizen (Mar 4, 2021)

RabidWombat said:


> But we leftists are supposedly out to destroy capitalism! Why would they side with that?


I'm going to risk committing a No True Scotsman fallacy here when I say this, but here goes.

There are currently two kinds of Leftists: normal Leftists, and corporate/woke Leftists.

Normal Leftists (or classical liberals, if you will) are the kind of Leftists you'd find using the Kiwi Farms. They tend to be progressive (e.g., support gay marriage) while not going to far overboard (e.g., supporting gay, child, and animal marriage.) Many hold a healthy distrust of large corporations, but otherwise support well-regulated capitalism. Normal Leftists usually are well read, thoughtful and intelligent, and even if you disagree with them they are generally people you'd like to hang around with.

Corporate/Woke Leftists are what right-wing pundits call "sheeple." They completely lack critical thinking skills of any sort. They can only vomit up whatever catchphrases someone else came up with, and blindly side with anyone (and any corporation) who vomits up those same catchphrases, no matter how corrupt or vile. They have pie-in-the-sky dreams (e.g., making a socialist paradise that will make everything better), and when those don't come true they blame the enemy _du jour _(white cishet Christian Anglo-American males in this case.)

Normal Leftists were some of history's greatest thinkers, philosophers, and statesmen. Corporate/Woke Leftists are useful idiots who exist simply to help an oligarchy obtain and maintain power.


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## Carlos Weston Chantor (Mar 4, 2021)

Stalin was the last cool leftist and the jews killed him


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## WolfeTone (Mar 4, 2021)

Not in America. Muh overton window.


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## Sexy Senior Citizen (Mar 4, 2021)

WolfeTone said:


> Not in America. Muh overton window.


But... but.... muh horseshoe theory!


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## WolfeTone (Mar 4, 2021)

Sexy Senior Citizen said:


> But... but.... muh horseshoe theory!


Doesn't really matter if things are looping back in on themselves if they're planted firmly on the bad side of the train tracks.


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## Pentex (Mar 4, 2021)

Left-Right is a stupid and useless political dichotomy that should have died with the rest of the Ancien Regime, but nevertheless, here we are.

What 'The Left' is in modern parlance, are people who can trace their political 'thinking' back to Rousseau, a failed elite and a living, breathing plague on the human race.

The original delusion of 'the Left' that it has inherited from Rousseau is the contrarian, single-minded devotion to upending the former Christian order of Europe.

The foremost upending being a revolt against 'original sin' by the declaration "'L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers" then proceeds to sing half-baked paeans to the innocent and noble savage, and how society, rather than individual failing or supernatural corruption, is responsible for our vices and shortcomings.

One can easily hear the echoes of Rousseau's bleatings in the whining of the current 'Left' that 'capitalism/white supremacy/patriarchy/heteronormativity makes me do what I don't want, but if society were destroyed everything would be wonderful.' How would it be wonderful? Don't know. Who would make it wonderful? Don't know. How long would it take between destruction and wonderfulness? Don't know.

Curiously, all of the moralist-materialist philosophes who call for the destruction of the world that so cruelly demands that they behave like rational, responsible adults (Rousseau, Marx, Fanon) are rather silent on the building of the new world.

Ironically, materialism is the contemporary Left's own 'original sin' inherited from Rousseau, that men are just lumps of clay to be molded by economic forces and institutions into whatever shape the directors of those forces and institutions desire, unless one receives the 'moralistic' revelation of socialism, which 'allows' the adherent to see and become fixated on the 'systems of his oppression.' This is why 'the Left' is obsessed with subverting, controlling, or destroying every institution in society.


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## TFT-A9 (Mar 5, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> I keep running into tankie and antifa spergs who keep yapping about bringing down or "reforming" (lol) state capitalism. Not understanding that it's literally communism, only less honest.
> 
> Can anyone make sense of this bullshit?


Tankies spewing any kind of reformist stuff is a contradiction in terms.

They're fucking retards.  They don't even know what their OWN political ideology entails.


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Mar 6, 2021)

The old-school left sold out their old supporter base of the working class, purely because it's simply easier to import masses of third-world citizens and then label your party as their only choice due to anything even remotely right-wing being labelled and vilified as "racist". Notice how in pretty much every "diverse" neighbourhood in the West, they always vote massively in favour of the main left-wing party of their respective country. Why deal with a bunch of union-supporting miners, farmers or factory workers that may not vote for you if you fail to provide tangible results to improve their economic position, when you can just import Ahmed and his extended family of 250 people who will vote for you no matter what?

It also helps that this mass importation also helps the corporations that make up the majority of funding for the right-wing, by providing them with an abundance of labour which means they don't have to offer competitive wages or better working conditions.


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## teriyakiburns (Mar 6, 2021)

Zippocat's Revenge said:


> Tankies spewing any kind of reformist stuff is a contradiction in terms.
> 
> They're fucking retards.  They don't even know what their OWN political ideology entails.


The rare ones that do are even worse, because they're insufferably smug on top of everything else and use their knowledge of marxist scripture as a club to browbeat their own side into obedience.


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## Emperor Julian (Mar 6, 2021)

On reflection barely but it exists more than the right does.


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## BipolarPon (Mar 7, 2021)

I truly believe most american politicians in charge hate their own country and want to slowly destroy it, that's why they invest in forever wars and don't give a damn about infrastructure.


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## N. Tensity (Mar 10, 2021)

Effluvium said:


> I'm sure that those who've noticed it can attest that, for the past few years now, those claiming to be left leaning and the avowed enemy of capitalism still consoom and suck millionaire dongs if they happen to be hot enough, or happen to hold the right opinion.
> 
> You can do blatant human rights violations so long as the one doing them is a transgender woman of color, otherwise, it's not the "right" person doing it. Therefore, it's like the greatest sin ever committed, but when a diversity hire is the one holding the whip, it's suddenly empowering, revolutionary and the greatest thing ever.
> 
> ...


You don't get it! The left is not supportive of censorship! We love equality and human rights! This is harassment against the left, to fuel your untrue and unwise agenda.


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## Unassuming Local Guy (Mar 10, 2021)

90% of people have no ideology beyond opportunism and appeal to popularity.  The left never really existed, nor did the right.  I would bet my house that virtually every troon-worshiping BLM-supporting corporatist would start hanging gay black atheists in the name of American Jesus tomorrow if it were beneficial for them to do so.  Self preservation is all an animal understands, and to call progressives animals is being charitable.

I'd be saying the same about the far right if it actually existed in this country.  But it doesn't.  Not like the far left.  Without establishment backing, you're not real any more.  Populism is dead.  Only totalitarianism remains.


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## Kornula (Mar 10, 2021)

N. Tensity said:


> You don't get it! The left is not supportive of censorship! We love equality and human rights! This is harassment against the left, to fuel your untrue and unwise agenda.


Really?  Libtards are pushing nothing but censorship left and right every day. Y'all want every single person that disagrees with you off  all media.  Look at the "Cancel Culture" years before Gina Carano, there were ordinary people who lost their jobs because of a joke they told...on on twitter, just before she flew off to Africa for a vacation.. by the time she landed, she was fired and blacklisted. There were two tech guys at a convention fucking whispered their joke to each other, while this angry, fat, ugly femminazi behind them over heard it, recorded it on her phone as "evidence". She found out where they worked, had them almost fired because she felt literally "oppressed" because of this "sexist" joke they told in semi private.  I've been put in facebook jail 10 times now... Once, I did call a "woman" a cunt... to be fair, she was a cunt... but I shouldn't be put in jail because I hurt your feelings.   

You are in fact, for censorship.   You now support the "community standards" of the big tech companies impose.. it's only a matter of days before you push for a Federal mandate on what words are and are not "offensive". No matter how many times you fucking femminazi libtard douchebags spint it; it's fucking censorship.  You're demanding we use "preferred pronouns" for faggots now.  We ain't gonna call you: Ze, Zim, Zir, they, them or even Apache attack helicopter.  

Yes, in fact, you are pushing for censorship when you are forcing what words we can and cannot use.


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## Fougaro (Mar 10, 2021)

> Does the actual "Left" even exist anymore?


Yes. Long story short:


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