# When it it "suicide"



## Bassomatic (Feb 17, 2018)

Sorry for the morbid topic, but oddly I find this is a wonderful place to find a literal, diverse open minded group of people to talk with. 

I find when I'm in the dumps, thinking helps a lot and sadly a few family members passed away, so I guess the whole mortality thing is running in my mind. Forgive the blog post, I just wanted a bit of a preface I'm not an emo kid over all depressed or a risk to myself or in bad health.

So, I was thinking, it's clearly a question I'm asking that has no "right" reply but more just where you stand. We all know how awful cancer is, and it's cures are almost as bad. We all know part of being alive, we will die. That's not a debate. But we have programs like hospice, some nations allow a taking of life under terminal conditions (varying from place to place). That's my question.

If you choose to not fight a .0001% chance of life, is that still same as losing a job and blasting yourself? Sure the reasons and direness are different and we both know the post results will be different, one you get a new job and life goes on the other, your body was shredded your health will never be good etc and depending only extend a short time in poor quality.

Personally, I don't think any adult has to go on, if you can prove you are mentally well and you feel depression,  a loss, health etc. I strongly disagree with your choice over something as trivial in the big picture as a break up to self terminate, but I stand for a right of it.

So while I think it's always suicide, I don't try to judge anyone be it 86 and Alzheimer's is setting in and you don't want to be a zombie or 22 and PTSD is just tearing you apart.

Is it always selfish to end your life? If not at what point  is  it "ok" in your eyes? At what point is it surrender vs self destructive. I mean if you don't take a med you very well may die, and I understand that's different than an active rope tying in action but in moral. How many cases do we hear you have to stop sugar, booze or you will die and people don't stop, it's a slower acting active destruction, than saying no thanks to a treatment.

I know there's no wrong way to view this, but I guess right now I think it would be oddly calming if some people can chime in with how they feel about where the line is, if they see one.


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## Fascist Frederick (Feb 17, 2018)

I don't know about suicide, but your thread title was dead on arrival.


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## ICametoLurk (Feb 17, 2018)

When it it happens.


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## ES 148 (Feb 17, 2018)

It's all suicide until someone loses an eye


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## WW 635 (Feb 17, 2018)

It's more of a Western thing to view suicide as selfish or wrong. Other cultures have varying opinions on it, including support for the decision in certain circumstances.


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## m0rnutz (Feb 17, 2018)

Unless you're going to die within the next six months and those six months are going to be the most intense hell ever faced for you, suicide is usually selfish.


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## WW 635 (Feb 17, 2018)

m0rnutz said:


> Unless you're going to die within the next six months and those six months are going to be the most intense hell ever faced for you, suicide is usually selfish.


It's more selfish to keep someone alive in pain because you'll "miss them"


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## Flustercuck (Feb 17, 2018)

it's not suicide unless the balls touch


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## Dirt McGirt (Feb 17, 2018)

kys?


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## Carcinogenesis (Feb 17, 2018)

I'm against the notion of committing suicide under most circumstances.  Most of the time, there is something worth living for when life gives you a tough time.  That being said, when nothing is left, I wouldn't blame anyone for ending it all.  I support euthanasia as well if the person is terminally ill and in serious pain.


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## Bassomatic (Feb 17, 2018)

Cricket said:


> It's more selfish to keep someone alive in pain because you'll "miss them"


For sure, but at what point do we have to go on if unhappy/healthy to live for other people?

I've known a few people who still wound up taking their own life but the last few months of their life were even more hurting because they didn't end it to prevent pain of loved ones, whom they grew to hate as it prolonged suffering akin to not pulling the plug on a coma victim.

Sorry I'm a debbie downer on this topic.


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## Crunchy Leaf (Feb 17, 2018)

I'm fine with doctor-assisted suicide for the cancer patient or the other terminally ill individual who would die anyway. I'm not fine with doctor-assisted suicide for the depressed.


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## Y2K Baby (Feb 17, 2018)

Cricket said:


> It's more of a Western thing to view suicide as selfish or wrong. Other cultures have varying opinions on it, including support for the decision in certain circumstances.


Why are the Eastie boys so much better than white "my life is so importies"?


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## WW 635 (Feb 17, 2018)

Y2K Baby said:


> Why are the Eastie boys so much better than white "my life is so importies"?


It's the ideal of individualism and the belief that everyone is "special" in western culture. Whereas in some other places the contribution of the individual to society and the health of the collective is considered the priority.


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## Y2K Baby (Feb 17, 2018)

Cricket said:


> It's the ideal of individualism and the belief that everyone is "special" in western culture. Whereas in some other places the contribution of the individual to society and the health of the collective is considered the priority.


OK, thanks for repeating what I said, just less intelligently.


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## AnOminous (Feb 17, 2018)

Suicide is when a human being willingly walks into the infinite darkness because of the entire meaninglessness of existence.

Also lol niggers.


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## Somsnosa (Feb 17, 2018)

A person has the right to choose of their own life as they please, point blank period. And once you die, you don't regret it. Also you seem like you need a friendly pat in the back, you ok?



Cricket said:


> It's the ideal of individualism and the belief that everyone is "special" in western culture. Whereas in some other places the contribution of the individual to society and the health of the collective is considered the priority.


Yeah! It works so well in Japan. Everyone is so happy and filled with honor, unlike us scummy depressed individualists


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## AnOminous (Feb 17, 2018)

Somsnosa said:


> Yeah! It works so well in Japan. Everyone is so happy and filled with honor, unlike us scummy depressed individualists



I think it's pretty cool they literally have an entire forest just for committing suicide in it.

Good job Japan!  Great society you have going on there.


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## Bassomatic (Feb 17, 2018)

1864897514651 said:


> Hell no. We are not doing this crap again. Do we seriously not remember less than a hundred years ago when we first blurred the lines between free will and moral obligation? The bastard fucking Nazi Party used this propaganda to murder AT LEAST *100,000* human beings with Aktion T4. Including at least 5,000 children. LIVING CHILDREN.
> 
> When you start saying that people can execute their free will to end their own God-given lives, you initiate a stance that suicide can NOT ONLY become a false moral obligation, but that it is imperative to 'euthanize' (I prefer the term murder) certain people whether they want to die or not. Let us look at the Aktion T4 propaganda from just Wikipedia.
> 
> ...


I wasn't talking about making people end a life, that's an entire new can of worms. As you listed and I agree it's a crazy slippery slope.

I was talking about people whom are of able mind to choose to do it vs round 4 of chemo or face losing limbs or mind etc.

In my question, the ending of the life would be "free will" only in that regard.

The at what point do we pull the plug or stop helping should be it's own thread and I'm sure it won't be any more cheery than this one lol.

With your thoughts I am leaning towards, you feel a terminally ill person should not opt for hospice even, am I incorrect?


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## Gay Kenshiro (Feb 17, 2018)

It's literally the biggest commitment a person can make in their lives. As pussy as this sounds, I do think its a case by case basis. If a person loses their spouse and kids in a taumatic event, and it leaves a huge mental scar that they never recover from, can they try and seek support from friends and family and start again? If your mind deteriorates to the point where you need others to do everything for you, do you stay alive so you don't be remembered by people who know you as a person who chose to end their own lives? There's just no easy answer.

Unless you kill yourself because your husbando died. In which case fuck you.


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## WW 635 (Feb 18, 2018)

Y2K Baby said:


> OK, thanks for repeating what I said, just less intelligently.


You are welcome


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## WW 635 (Feb 18, 2018)

Somsnosa said:


> Yeah! It works so well in Japan. Everyone is so happy and filled with honor, unlike us scummy depressed individualists


Spoken like a scummy depressed individualist


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## AnOminous (Feb 18, 2018)

1864897514651 said:


> Hell no. We are not doing this crap again. Do we seriously not remember less than a hundred years ago when we first blurred the lines between free will and moral obligation? The bastard fucking Nazi Party used this propaganda to murder AT LEAST *100,000* human beings with Aktion T4. Including at least 5,000 children. LIVING CHILDREN.



Your numbers suck.  Learn to math.


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## Recent Raven (Mar 10, 2018)

I remember years ago reading a case of euthanasia due to mental health problems, tried to google it and it turns out this is increasingly common:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...rp-increase-in-people-choosing-euthanasia-du/



> Whereas just two people had themselves euthanised in the country in 2010 due to an "insufferable" mental illness, 56 people did so [in 2015], a trend which sparked concern among ethicists .
> 
> In one controversial case, a sexual abuse victim in her 20s was allowed to go ahead with the procedure as she was suffering from "incurable" PTSD, according to the Dutch Euthanasia Commission.


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## AnOminous (Mar 10, 2018)

Recent Raven said:


> I remember years ago reading a case of euthanasia due to mental health problems, tried to google it and it turns out this is increasingly common:
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...rp-increase-in-people-choosing-euthanasia-du/



It's hard not to be incredibly leery of decisions like this.  It's still easy to imagine circumstances where mental illness, by itself, could be worse than death.  Imagine you have refractory, untreatable schizophrenia with hallucinatory content that means every waking moment of your life is a pure horror movie of fear and agony.  You have a moment of lucidity and a gun.  I could easily see a decision to check out as entirely rational.


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## Piss Clam (Mar 10, 2018)

I've never understood why it is selfish to take your own life. I don't remember having the consciousness to ask to be born. In fact I don't remember much of my life until maybe age five.

Yes I have a plan, had it since I was a teenager, but I'm still alive and have passed the 27 club...I'd find it more intersting for the people who have a plan in what it is.


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## :thinking: (Mar 10, 2018)

Consider civilization as a living organism and humans as its cells. 
Apoptosis or "cellular suicide" is a normal, programmed process of cellular self-destruction in our bodies. Even though it involves cell death, apoptosis serves a healthy and protective role in a living organism.
The cell dies, the body lives on.

to;dr people who kill themselves knew they were shit and useless to society as a whole.


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## Nekromantik (Mar 10, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> It's still easy to imagine circumstances where mental illness, by itself, could be worse than death. Imagine you have refractory, untreatable schizophrenia with hallucinatory content that means every waking moment of your life is a pure horror movie of fear and agony. You have a moment of lucidity and a gun. I could easily see a decision to check out as entirely rational.


Had a family member that lived this exact scenario. It was sad, he was only 17, but he had lived almost all his life like this talking to people that weren't there. It sucked, couldn't find a treatment that worked for long.

Now that I'm older I understand why he did it.


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## :thinking: (Mar 10, 2018)

Nekromantik said:


> Had a family member that lived this exact scenario. It was sad, he was only 17, but he had lived almost all his life like this talking to people that weren't there. It sucked, couldn't find a treatment that worked for long.
> 
> Now that I'm older I understand why he did it.


Or maybe the people he saw were real and part of an invasion force from a parallel universe. He was our last, best hope and he was murdered.


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## Nekromantik (Mar 10, 2018)

:thinking: said:


> Or maybe the people he saw were real and part of an invasion force from a parallel universe. He was our last, best hope and he was murdered.


What if by killing himself he passed to the other side to fight the evil. What an hero.


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## Bassomatic (Mar 10, 2018)

1864897514651 said:


> Hospice is a corporal work of Mercy. I am not sure what you meant unless you believe that hospice should eventually end at the 'pulling of the plug' at a certain point in time. Hospice is corporal care given to those who cannot care for themselves, until they die of natural causes.
> 
> Gerhard Kretschmar was a 6 month-old infant that was murdered upon the request of his parents to provide a 'mercy killing' for their son. This was done on July 25th, 1939.
> 
> ...


Ok, sorry I may have worded myself poorly but in regards to opting in hospice, clearly no matter this mortal shell dies one way or at one time.

Let's say you have super turbo cancer, you could get chemo and have say just for sake of ease 1% chance of making it or go to hospice, is that suicide.

I do enjoy your posts even though I can't say I agree with a lot you write


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## MG 620 (Mar 10, 2018)

it's probably not suicide if you make 100 tweets about being homeless in Chicago and then post about a video game the next day.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Mar 10, 2018)

I am pro-choice on abortion and the MAID (Medical Assistance In Dying aka assisted suicide aka euthanasia) activists like to say MAID and abortion/birth control are all the same issue based on bodily autonomy but I'm not so sure. We have MAID in Canada now yet we also have a shortage of palliative care specialists, not nearly enough residential hospices and access to hospice care in home- a patchy less than ideal system in general for end of life care. If someone is dying and in severe pain, is it really an autonomous choice if they don't have the option to live with proper pain management? We're forcing people to live in pain so much that they want to die. 

In Europe they kill too many people for treatable reasons like mental illness. In an ideal world with proper social supports and equal healthcare access to choose freely between life and death with no financial pressure either way I can see the point of letting terminally ill people kill themselves. MAID on the other hand for the mental ill and disabled is too dangerous for both vulnerable groups. Disability rights activists like Not Dead Yet make good arguments from a non-religious view if you want to learn about progressive reasons why people oppose MAID. 

http://notdeadyet.org/assisted-suicide-talking-points

https://www.theirisproject.net/uplo...rogressive_case_against_pas_by_dredf_1_15.pdf

There have been instances where health insurance companies deny treatment but approve assisted suicide drugs in the US:

https://nypost.com/2016/10/24/termi...ent-coverage-but-gets-suicide-drugs-approved/


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## Elwood P. Dowd (Mar 10, 2018)

Daughter of Pomona said:


> In Europe they kill too many people for treatable reasons like mental illness.



I disagree. My general belief is that your life is your own. After all, who else's could it possibly be?


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## polonium (Mar 11, 2018)

My take on it is, it's _your_ life. You shouldn't be forced to live it for other people.
It's harsh on those you leave behind and it's not a decision to take lightly at all given that it's permanent and has a long lasting, possibly devastating effect on people around you, but the idea that it's "selfish" to commit suicide is silly. It's exactly as selfish to demand someone _doesn't_ commit suicide. Forcing someone to stay alive because it hurts your feelings if they die is very self-centred.

I think anyone, even healthy people, should be allowed to suicide if they want to, but the problem is making sure they're doing it for the right reasons. I feel like people should at least have tried to sort out whatever is wrong in their lives before they pull the pin, but it's really hard to police that. There's a huge subjective element too, because someone quite stoic might be able to endure a lot of hardship that would utterly break someone else.


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## sperginity (Mar 11, 2018)

It's selfish if you have children (even grown ones) and you aren't terminally ill. The moment you have kids the option is off the table, it doesn't matter if you wanted them or not because they didn't ask to be born and you aren't replaceable in their lives. Other than that, you can do whatever you want with your life, including ending it. I was rather peeved at someone I knew who an heroed, never sought treatment for depression beforehand, even at the urging of many people. I realized that it was selfish of me to expect anyone to live because I wanted them to. I still think their choice was stupid, but it was theirs to make. RIP you fuckin dumbass.


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## Zebedee (Mar 13, 2018)

There's not really an excuse in most circumstances that modern therapy won't fix, (depression, schizophrenia etc).

For those who actively follow the treatment program it actually works, and for those that it "failed to work on", the majority of them are lying as people with mental illness are notorious for being non compliant with medication. It comes up in tox screens all the time, yet they think we never notice.

However for the extremely small minority that have no way out and their condition and cannot be treated or fixed then yes it is OK. However those people are few and far between even in the mental health community, and in most cases cannot be stopped from committing suicide anyways as they will simply do it regardless of what others think.


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## grumbleBum (Mar 14, 2018)

Suicide sounds fucking grand compared to rotting slowly away in a nursing home with dementia, or slowly drowning over months with COPD.


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