# F.A.Qs about Jail, State Hospital, and Court



## Pointless Sperg (Feb 13, 2022)

*The situation is still in flux, and this FAQ is out of date. It will be updated, however events are moving so quickly at the moment that any changes will be rendered obsolete. It will be updated once we have more information about what happened, schedule of court proceedings, etc.

A few quick answers though.:

1) Chris is now charged with a felony. He was going to be indicted, but has waived the indictment and proceeded straight to circuit court. 

2) There will still probably not be a trial. It's starting to look like a deal has been made.

3) Chris' attorney has requested deferred disposition due to autism, this is already discussed in the FAQ below, about Chris using his autism/retardation to get out of the charges. The information is still accurate, other than being out of date since this is now looking like a very likely possibility. 

4) Since people ask a lot, Chris is not going to federal prison. Chris is charged with a state crime, not a federal one.  

5) Chris is still not charged with rape. We now can see the summary of his case, and there is only one charge, that of incest. *


OK. Here's my first attempt at a Jail Saga FAQ. While it's not as eloquent as what @Alexander Hamilton wrote at the start of the Legal Issues thread (and he is a prosecutor so he is definitely more qualified than me), he hasn't been around for a while to update it, and more importantly I tried to be more thorough and address a lot of the stupid questions. Ideally this would be given its own stickied, highlighted thread to encourage people to read it first before asking stupid questions, and so they can be easily referred to it.

I'm also a retard so I'm sure I've made a few mistakes, it would be fine if others contributed. I also don't know xenforo super well so I may have made some dumb formatting mistakes. It's also fine if people copy this and post this somewhere else if they have their own problems with people asking if Chris is getting raped in prison, etc.

Chris Chan Jail Saga/Jailchu/Nuthouse FAQ v 0.06

Hi folks! There's been a lot of confusion about what has been happening in the Jailchu/Incest Saga. There's been talk of putting together a FAQ for fast answers to questions, so they don't get asked over and over. Now, with the most recent continuance all but guaranteeing that there will be little change in the situation over the next six months, I decided it's time to finally bite the bullet and write something rather than face another six months of the same questions. I've tried to limit this mostly to facts, and cited legal code where needed. I have tried to keep speculation to a minimum and noted it where there is some.

*Generic disclaimer: I am not your attorney and this is not legal advice. I am not a practicing attorney, paralegal, or any other officer of the court in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I have no legal experience in Virginia. Any observations I make here are based on my general knowledge of Common Law as practiced in the United States, as well as time spent reading Virginia code and case law in relation to Chris-related events. These are not expert observations, and anyone with actual legal experience in Virginia may find inaccuracies in what I've written.*

With that out of the way, let's go.

Background



> This is a summary of the events that began the current saga. It is not extensive and not a history of the activity of the trolls involved, or the Everfree Northwest travel plans, just a brief list of events leading to Chris' incarceration. This is a first draft and there may be errors.
> 
> Chris, in a recorded phone call with Bella, in addition to less-specific writings over various text based services to various people, including Null, admitted to performing sexual activities with his mother Barbara. He did not go into great detail about the nature of his activities, but did specifically mention genital massages and cunnilingus. He did not specifically admit to vaginal intercourse, but did mention the use of a condom, so it can be inferred that this probably also occurred.
> 
> ...



When is Chris' next court date?



> July 28th, 2022.



So Chris is going to trial on July 28th?



> Probably not, for numerous reasons, explained below. It is probably another procedural hearing. We currently do not know the nature of the hearing as the court clerk has not informed anyone here who has contacted them so far.
> 
> It is speculated that, based on the Virginia procedure for individuals deemed incompetent to stand trial, this a review hearing to determine if Chris is restored to competency, or if he needs to be kept for another six months in mental health treatment, or declared permanently unrestorable and left in medical care indefinitely. It's speculated that if he deemed competent, this will also be when Chris enters a guilty plea as part of a plea agreement. Read further to understand why.
> 
> This section will be updated if new information becomes available.



Is Chris in prison now?



> Chris is not in prison. Chris is in jail.
> 
> After his February hearing, he was temporarily moved to an unspecified facility.  This has more or less been confirmed to be Western State Hospital (formerly Western State Lunatic Asylum) in Staunton, Virginia.
> 
> Chris has since been returned to Central Virginia Regional Jail, where he will most likely remain until his July hearing.



Why was Chris in a state hospital?



> The reason is unknown, but there are a couple of potential reasons, which of them we are not certain.
> 
> Chris could have attempted self-harm/suicide. This would result in a temporary hold, something that all people in Virginia are subject to, under Virginia Code § 37.2-817
> 
> ...



If Chris was in a state hospital because of incompetence to assist in his own defense, how did he get out? What did he have to do?



> They most likely had specified reviewed periods to determine if he was ready to be ruled as restored to competence. There would have been reviews by Chris' assigned psychiatrist in the facility, as well as a court review (which is possibly what the July 28th court date is) to determine if he has been restored to competence.
> 
> Since Chris is back in jail, it's likely that he has been deemed restored by the hospital, but he will not be officially restored until a hearing takes place.
> 
> @JanuaryViolet wrote an excellent post about how this process works in their state.  Virginia is most likely similar.



How do we know that he was in a state hospital?



> The initial suspicions were due to a lack of letters and phone calls received after Chris' February 3rd 2022 court date. This indicated that some change may have occurred in Chris' status that prevented him from communicating with the outside world. Furthermore, the six month continuance until his next hearing would be very unusual under normal circumstances, but would be typical for a review date if the defendant was sent to a mental health facility to restore competence.
> 
> Chris' status in VINElink (the victims' notification network that doubles as Central Virginia Regional Jail's online booking info since it does not have its own system on its website) was updated to show that he was transferred from CVRJ. No specific destination facility was stated, instead the field simply contained "another facility". Ordinarily, when a transfer occurs, the destination facility is specified.
> 
> ...



Aren't jail and prison the same thing? Are they different?



> Generally in the United States, and similar countries, jail and prison, while both incarcerating people, have different purposes.
> 
> Prisons are (usually) large statewide facilities designed to contain convicted inmates for a long period of time, usually greater than one year. Generally this means you are only sent to prison once you are convicted of a felony. Since prisons must house people for long periods of time, they usually have lots of amenities to keep prisoners distracted. This can be simple entertainment, a library, workshops where they can learn skills, gyms, outdoor recreation areas, etc. Prisoners often form social groups because they interact with the same prisoners for a long period of time. These can be benign, or violent. This is mostly due to the fact that different prisons have different security levels for housing prisoners with different levels of violent tendencies.
> 
> ...



So why is Chris in jail instead of prison? I thought he was facing serious charges?


> Chris is not yet convicted of anything. Chris is being held without bail, waiting for a resolution to his case. No matter what you are charged with, if you are not out on bail, you will be held in jail until you are actually convicted, at which point you could be released, sent to finish a sentence in jail, or finish it in prison.



Why is Chris being held in jail without bail? Do they think he's a great danger to the community?



> While we don't know all the details, a journalist documented the prosecutor as specifically citing weens as being a danger to Chris and the community, and thus Chris is being kept in jail mostly for his own protection, and probably for the sanity of the community.
> 
> When one is released on bail, part of the agreement is some form of guarantee that you will be available to return to court at the next date you are to appear. Part of that guarantee is a place of residence that you can be contacted at. Chris has no place to go, so his homeless situation is also probably part of the reason he is still in jail. While sometimes homeless defendants are released, they are usually required to still provide the address of a homeless shelter that they can be found at.
> 
> ...



I heard that because Chris is a transwoman, he was placed in a women's jail. Will he molest other inmates?



> Virginia places inmates based on their genitalia, not their gender identification. While Chris is treated as a woman in legal proceedings outside of jail, he is booked in jail as a man.
> 
> Small communities usually can't afford a separate men's and women's jail. Central Virginia Regional Jail does have a small women's unit, but Chris is not in it.
> 
> ...



Was Chris placed with women at Western State Hospital?



> This is unknown. On intake, however, patients are normally held separately. It may be possible that if Chris were eventually assigned a roommate, it would be another MtF transgender individual. Based on the scant descriptions we've heard from Chris, it is likely that he was held separately the whole time.



Will Chris get free sex reassignment in jail on the taxpayer's dime?



> No. Not in jail. They don't provide major health care in jail unless the inmate's life is in immediate danger.
> 
> In the unlikely event that Chris is sent to prison for a long time, it is possible, but not likely in the near future. There is current debate in Virginia over whether this should happen, as it is not currently allowed. With the new administration in the Governor's office, this does not look like this will change anytime soon.
> 
> ...



Is Chris receiving Hormone Replacement Therapy while in custody?



> Inmates in jail, and patients in a mental facility in Virginia are entitled to receive medication that they have been prescribed. If Chris can document a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, he can receive HRT medication while in custody. Whether he asks or even thinks to do this is up to speculation, as it seems he has not really kept up to date with HRT treatment in the past, preferring instead to use Barb's estrogen cream on his nipples.



I heard Chris said he had a "standard bidet" in his cell. Does he? What about when he was at Western State Hospital?



> Bidets are not normal for a jail cell. What is common, however, are extremely sturdy steel toilet/sink combination units, where the sink is built into the top of the toilet tank assembly.
> 
> It is speculated that this means that Chris is sitting on top of the sink and using it to wash his anus and buttocks after defecating, thus effectively repurposing it as a bidet.
> 
> In a state hospital, bathroom facilities can vary. This ranges from a private bathroom in normal accomodations, to a cell-type toilet in the more restrictive ones. Chris still did not have a bidet.



Is Chris going to be beaten/raped/murdered by other inmates while in jail?



> Almost certainly not. Inmates who are at risk for various reasons are usually kept separated from others. In Chris' case, his claims of transgender identity, obvious mental illness, and irrational behavior more or less guaranteed that he would be recognized as needing such protection. From Chris' own letters, this is what is happening, and he does not have much contact with other people other than the jail staff. Chris does not have a cellmate.



Was beaten/raped/murdered by other patients while in a state hospital?



> Very unlikely. While Chris might have been allowed around other patients at some point, group areas are almost constantly monitored. At worst, Chris received a quick beating before hospital staff broke it up. This is still unlikely and Chris has not written about this occurring during his stay.
> 
> Chris did indicate that staff at the hospital restrained him and held him to the ground, which he likened to an event where he had to be restrained in elementary school due to throwing a tantrum. The accuracy of his description of the events is in doubt.



Chris was abnormally quiet after his February hearing, was he not allowed to contact the outside world while he was at Western State Hospital?



> Apparently not. No mail or phone calls were received while Chris was in the hospital. Chris has yet to describe why this was the case.



I've seen some crazy letters. So Chris can send and receive mail when he is in jail?



> Inmates generally have the right to communicate with whoever they want, unless it's a danger to the facility or used to commit a crime. Chris is a low risk.
> 
> Chris can write as many letters as he can afford paper supplies and stamps for. He receives a couple of free letters per week, but must pay for the rest.
> 
> ...



So I can send Chris mail when he is in jail? Will he reply?



> This is not a good idea, especially if you don't practice opsec with your name and return address. Chris is keeping a logbook of everyone he corresponds with, including their addresses and any phone numbers he's received, and he intends to publish these. i.e. Chris intends to dox everyone who talks to him.
> 
> As writing physical letters takes effort, Chris is currently mostly only replying to people who are stroking his ego. If he deems you "toxic", he will not reply. He will still dox you though.
> 
> That said, the letters can be entertaining. Thus, it is not encouraged or endorsed to write Chris, but any letters posted to the forums are appreciated.



Doesn't the jail read Chris' letters?



> Chris still has a nominal right to privacy in his mail, especially as he has not been convicted yet. Virginia's policy for inmate mail is that it should not be read except for practical, security reasons to keep the facility and inmates safe.
> 
> To protect the security of the facility, the addresses on the outside of the envelopes are all recorded, as metadata has no protection.
> 
> ...



Can Chris make phone calls in jail?



> Yes, however they are expensive, thus Chris does not make many of them as they rapidly drain his commissary account. A few have been recorded by the recipients.
> 
> All calls, except to his attorney, are recorded in the event that they need to be examined to protect the security of the facility. That said, they are probably not being actively listened to by authorities.
> 
> ...



Does Chris have TV/Video Games when in jail?



> Chris has a small FM radio. There is a TV in the common area, but Chris is generally not allowed access to that area for his own protection.
> 
> Jails, being short-term facilities, usually don't allow inmates to have larger personal electronics since that would cause logistical issues. Thus personal televisions and video game consoles are mostly the domain of prison.
> 
> In recent years many jails have started issuing tablets running a heavily locked-down version of Android to inmates, both to allow them to purchase games, and send expensive emails through a limited mail gateway. CVRJ apparently has not implemented such a program yet, so Chris does not have a tablet.



How is Chris affording these things when he is in jail?



> Weens are sending money to his commissary account, so he can purchase ramen, Fanta, prayer rugs, art supplies, etc.
> 
> It is possible that he is having money transferred from his tugboat, and Chris is just begging for more, but that would still be a lot of money for commissary, so it is speculated that his only source of money right now is weens.



Can I send Chris money when he is in jail?



> Don't send Chris money.
> 
> That said, weens who want to can only send it via USPS postal money order (no other kind) to the jail, or via the JailATM service. I'm not going to post instructions as I don't want to encourage feeding Chris junk food.



Could Chris buy or possess personal items when in a state hospital?



> Probably not. Chris has not confirmed much information about his stay. Most likely, he only had access to what was provided. It is unknown if he was able to keep his belongings from jail, or if the jail saved and returned them when Chris was transferred back to jail.



Chris is in the big house! Is he going to come out buff/ripped?



> Almost certainly not.
> 
> First of all, as Chris so far, has only been to  jail, not prison, so there's not much in the way of exercise facilities. The "big house" is prison, which often has such facilities.
> 
> ...



What court is Chris' case in? Why am I being stopped from going in to watch? Can I at least read the transcripts to find out what crazy stuff Chris said?



> Chris' case is in Greene County Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court, or J&DR court for short. A J&DR court handles crimes committed by juveniles (unless they are tried as an adult), and misdemeanor crimes committed between adult family members/cohabitants.
> 
> Because juvenile and family affairs are often considered private matters, case data is not published like it is with other courts. Juvenile case files are not available to anyone other than the relevant parties. While theoretically some of the information about adult cases is still publicly available, it must be requested from the clerk of the court. Similarly, while the public can be allowed to be present for adult cases, they can also be barred for privacy reasons.
> 
> ...



I heard Chris stamped his feet and shouted in court. Will he be freaking out all the time? I wish I could see it.



> Chris did indeed make a bit of a show as his arraignment, the only hearing of his in J&DR that was open to the public. He demanded that he be allowed to go retrieve his toys (presumably the newly purchased ones he left in his hotel room). He also shouted about how he was famous on the internet.
> 
> Fortunately for the court's sanity, Chris does not actually have to be present as most hearings. It is speculation, but they are likely not including him there for most of them. Technically, on a misdemeanor in Virginia, Chris does not have to be present at all in court. That said, plea agreements often require the guilty plea be entered in person to ensure that the defendant is confirming his understanding of the agreement to the judge. Chris will thus probably be present for his final hearing.
> 
> Either way, we will probably never see his behavior, and it will not be transcribed or recorded as J&DR court does not do that.



Why would Chris be in a court that, for adults, only normally handles small crimes?



> This can only be speculated as we have no information on the reason for the transfer.
> 
> That said, a Class 5 felony, prosecuted as a misdemeanor, is at the absolute top fringe of what J&DR court is allowed to handle. As it can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor, and was between family, it still qualifies for domestic relations court.
> 
> ...



I heard that Incest is a Class 5 felony. Doesn't that mean Chris is charged with a felony?



> Incest with your own parent is indeed a Class 5 felony, under Virginia Code § 18.2-366(B). However it's important to understand what a Class 5 felony is.
> 
> In many jurisdictions, including Virginia, crimes and their respective punishments are classified under a shorthand system where instead of having to assign individual penalties for each crime, they can assign it a classification instead, and all crimes with that classification carry the same penalties. Different states use letters, numbers, etc., and some don't use a classification system at all.
> 
> ...



Does that mean that Chris can't be charged with felony incest?



> Chris can still be charged with a felony. This could happen at any time. There is no blanket statute of limitations on felonies in Virginia. All that is required is a probable cause hearing, which if successful would then send Chris to Circuit Court where, after the charges were reviewed by a grand jury, he would be indicted with a felony.
> 
> There is a statute of limitations on a felony after charges are brought. Five months if the defendant is held in jail, or nine months if free on bail. This timer, however, is paused during any continuance that is requested by the defense. Since, to the best of our knowledge, all current continuances have been requested by Chris' lawyer, this timer is not moving.
> 
> The only thing that would prevent Chris from having his charges upgraded to a felony would be a non-prosecution agreement from the Commonwealth's Attorney as part of a plea deal, or if he is found guilty on the charges as a misdemeanor, thus preventing him from being tried again for the same charge.



I heard that Chris raped Barb! Isn't rape always a felony?



> Rape is a felony, but Chris is not charged with rape, at least not yet. This is for two reasons.
> 
> First, rape is a lot harder to prove than incest. For incest, the prosecution must only prove that the event occurred. To prosecute rape, they must prove that Barb refused consent. Chris has admitted that Barb at one point refused consent, but he did not clarify that any intercourse occurred at the time she refused. Chris also indicated that Barb eventually consented. Since he did not provide a time frame for when the activity occurred in relation to the denial and granting of consent, it is in no way evidence that Chris had sex with Barb when consent was refused.
> 
> ...



But isn't Barb senile? Doesn't that make it rape, because she can't consent?



> For an adult to be considered unable to consent, they must be considered physically or mentally incapacitated.
> 
> Physical incapacitation would be if Barb was unconscious, or so paralyzed that she had no vocal or physical means to refuse consent. We know of no evidence of this.
> 
> ...



This is taking forever, why are there so many continuances? Doesn't Chris have the right to a speedy trial?



> Chris has the right to a speedy trial, but he does not have to exercise that right. The continuances are at the request of the defense, thus the right to a speedy trial does not apply.
> 
> As for the reason for the continuances, we do not know. We know that the first continuance was to arrange for a psychological evaluation of Chris, but beyond that the hearings were closed, so it's uncertain, and anything beyond this is speculation.
> 
> ...



Isn't it weird that there are so many continuances? Is Chris getting special treatment with this?



> Not at all. Plenty of cases take up to a year to complete, for a variety of reasons. Cases usually only end quickly when the stakes are so low that there is no point in dragging it out, or when the prosecution has made a critical error and the defense wishes to end the situation in their favor as fast as possible.High-stakes cases where a person's life is on the line can take multiple years to complete.
> 
> The right to a speedy trial exists to prevent the prosecution from abusing pre-trial detention as a way to punish an innocent person without having to convict them. Since the right is there, there is less incentive for that abuse to happen, thus there is less need for a speedy trial.



Are they spending this time having Chris demonstrate his insanity, so he can be found Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity?



> Almost certainly not. Hollywood pop culture loves the insanity defense for some reason, but in reality it is extraordinarily difficult to use effectively, and has been for around half a century. Most states strongly tightened the rules around how one could be considered insane with tough-on-crime legislation in the mid-late 20th century, and on the federal level they were notably tightened to be almost impossible with the 1984 Insanity Defense Reform Act, after Ronald Reagan's attempted assassin, John Hinckley Jr., was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
> 
> For one to be considered legally insane, they must not understand what they were doing, or were incapable of understanding the concept that what they were doing was a crime. Chris knew he was having sexual relations with Barb, and he was capable of understanding that incest is a crime.



But he was sent to a psychiatric hospital, doesn't that mean he's been found to be insane?



> No. It means that he was found to be either a present danger to himself, or that he was incompetent to assist in his own defense. If he was incompetent, it was a limited form of impairment, and his treatment was meant to restore competence. If he was a danger to himself, he was held until he was no longer a danger to himself.
> 
> Since Chris is incarcerated waiting for trial, he is already not at liberty, thus they can force him into treatment if he is incompetent. Meanwhile, if he is convicted and released having completed his sentence, he must be found *incapacitated*, and the bar for this is much higher, meaning he is deemed to be utterly incapable of functioning in his own care.
> 
> Neither of these situations are a Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity verdict, which would absolve him of responsibility for his crime. This outcome is *extremely* unlikely, though given his current status it is not impossible.



Can't Chris still use the fact that he is autistic/retarded in his defense?



> Yes. Due to a VERY recent statute ( § 19.2-271.6 ), Chris's attorney is allowed to present his conditions as a mitigating factor. This overrules a particularly harsh law passed in 1980 that banned the use of mental health conditions as evidence. This evidence, however, might not be helpful in determining guilt in a case where intent is not an issue. It would still definitely help in presenting a more sympathetic viewpoint to the court, and that could carry over into sentencing instead of having to be introduced at the last minute for a diminshed capacity determination.
> 
> In addition, another recent statute ( § 19.2-303.6 ) would actually allow Chris to be let off entirely with a deferred disposition, though the fact that Chris has been in jail this long indicates that this may not be in the cards. (In addition, certain sexual crimes are not eligible for this. Sexual intercourse with your mother is not one of them, but cunnilingus with your mother is. The way it's worded, however, seems like it only applies on a second offense. Someone with actual Virginia legal chops could clarify this.)
> 
> ...



Does Chris get credit for all the time he's spending in jail? What about his time in a state hospital? How much does it count for?



> A day in jail is a day in jail. Every day Chris spends in jail pre-conviction counts against time in his potential final sentence, whether that be in jail or prison.
> 
> In addition, good behavior credit counts, so if he's behaving well then he's earning extra time off. You are allowed to transfer this good behavior credit from time spent in remand as per ( § 53.1-187 ). In Virginia, good behavior credit in jail counts for 50% off, good behavior in prison counts as 15% off. Someone who is an actual lawyer in Virginia should clarify if you get to keep your 50% good behavior credit from jail, even if you wind up in prison, or if it gets converted to 15% credit.
> 
> ...



But if at his next hearing if he just gets off on time served, doesn't that mean he got off scot-free?



> Only if you consider spending a year in jail, losing your home, and possibly never seeing your mother again "scot-free".
> 
> Even if he gets all the charges dropped, he will still have spent more time in jail than most people do in their lives.



So if Chris gets the charges dropped via deferred judgement, or if they just drop the charges, or if he's found not guilty, does the state have to pay Chris because they kept an innocent man in jail?


> No. They had probable cause for his crime. The burden of proof for keeping someone in jail on suspicion of a crime is not as high as actually convicting them of a crime. Furthermore, the long time in jail was the result of the defense requesting continuances, while not requesting Chris' release.



Chris wants to be pardoned by Biden. Could he play the troon card and make that happen?



> Biden is the President of the United States. He can only pardon people on federal crimes. Chris is charged with a crime by the Commonwealth of Virginia. For criminal cases brought by the state of Virginia, only the Governor can pardon someone.
> 
> Governor Youngkin's campaign was notable in that included an incident involving sexual assault by a M2F transgender person. The optics would not be good if he pardoned a M2F transgender person accused of sexual assault.
> 
> Even then, unlike the US constitution, the constitution of Virginia only allows pardons *after* conviction.



Still, Chris' case has received so many continuances, how long can they continue the case, legally?



> As long as the defense doesn't demand a speedy trial, forever. They can continue the case until Chris is dead. Continuances, however, must be approved by the judge. The reason the case has taken this long is because the judge has agreed to it, and neither the defense nor the prosecution has complained about how long it is taking.



So they can just keep Chris in jail forever?



> No. They can only keep Chris in jail up to the length of the maximum sentence of the crime Chris is charged with. Presently, to the best of our knowledge, he has one charge of incest in J&DR court. Since the J&DR court can only hand down a sentence of up to 12 months, the longest they can keep Chris in jail on his current charge is one year. After one year, Chris can demand his immediate release. It's possible that he could voluntarily stay in jail longer, but the judge and administrator of the jail might be unhappy with that.
> 
> This would not end his case, or his charges. He would still have to show up for court dates, and could be jailed again on the crime of Failure to Appear if he didn't.
> 
> ...



When Chris is in a state hospital, can they keep him there forever?


> Yes, they can. However he has since been returned to jail.
> 
> However if he is returned in the future to a state hospital, the following rules would apply:
> 
> ...



When Chris was first arrested, they mentioned potential further charges. What would they be? Has he received further charges?


> To the best of our knowledge, Chris has only been charged with incest in J&DR court. He could have been arraigned on further charges in the closed hearings, but we can only speculate about that.
> 
> However, based on what we do know, these are the charges that Chris could potentially be facing:
> 
> ...



So in the event that Chris gets mutiple charges, does that mean he has to spend multiple years in prison with the charges stacked?



> Probably not. Courts generally operate on the principle of making sentences served concurrently when they are related to the same act. For instance, if he was convicted of both intercourse and cunnilingus, the sentences would almost certainly be served concurrently -- i.e.they would both be served simultaneously rather than one after the other.
> 
> They could try to use the idea of "every three days" to bring multiple charges for multiple acts, but then they would have to prove the number of times that each individual act happened, rather than if they happened at all. This would be difficult to do. Even then, they would probably still be served concurrently.
> 
> ...



Couldn't Chris be charged with elder financial abuse?


> Only if Barb were ruled incapacitated, which is unlikely. As far as we know, Barb willingly and consciously gave Chris access to her bank account.



So what charges will Chris be found guilty of?



> All we have to work on are Chris' own words, so this is entirely speculative. Chris is an unreliable narrator, and his words are not exactly proof by themselves.
> 
> Much of Chris' discussions of what happened were described vaguely. It's important to note that Chris masturbating Barb or inserting sex toys in her is not actually illegal by Virginia law. The only sexual activity that is illegal between adult, consenting mother and son involve copulation between penis and vagina in the case of persons forbidden to marry, or mouth/anus with penis, or mouth with vagina in the case of crimes against nature.
> 
> ...



Isn't it enough that Chris did sex stuff with Barb? Doesn't the incest law ban sexual intercourse with your mom?


> "Sexual Intercourse" has no definition in Virginia code. In Virginia case law, sexual intercourse is defined as strictly meaning penis in vagina, as per Desper v. Commonwealth of Virginia (2011).
> 
> Anal intercourse, fellatio, cunnilingus, and anallingus are the only other prohibited sexual activities with your mother, as specifically defined in § 18.2-361(B)
> 
> ...



Don't Chris' admissions count as a confession?



> Chris saying shit is not a formal confession unless he gave it in sworn testimony or deposition. While it can still be used against him in court, it is not complete evidence on its own. We don't know what happened after he was mirandized, before he had access to an attorney.
> 
> Even then, with a decent attorney, it's still arguable if there's no other evidence. Prosecuting Chris will depend on what other evidence the authorities have found, and what Barb has told them.
> 
> ...



Could Chris be found not guilty because Bella encouraged the sex?


> Probably not. Chris still made the decision to do the act. It could play into a mental handicap defense, meaning Chris was influenced, but so far we've seen no evidence that Bella did anything more than talk about how great incest was.



Could Bella be prosecuted for conspiring with Chris about the incest?



> No. She would have to have directly contributed to it through action, coercion or material support for that to happen. There is no evidence that anything like this has occurred.
> 
> There is no requirement for her to report the crime in Virginia. There is a law in Texas for crimes against the elderly to be reported, but that would be an incredible stretch, and speculation about that is not within the scope of this FAQ, as it is about Chris.



So if Barb consented, doesn't that mean she has to be charged with incest too? Isn't the fact that she hasn't been charged proof that she didn't consent?



> No. Prosecutors decide who to charge and what to charge with them. They are free to ignore all crime if they want. They are free to ignore murder if they wish.
> 
> The counterbalance against this is that if a prosecutor does a terrible job, the public is free to elect their opponent in the next election. In some jurisdictions they can force a recall election to remove them (this is currently happening in San Francisco). The legislature may remove them by impeachment. The legislature may also appoint a special prosecutor to bring a case that the normal prosecutor refused to.
> 
> The prosecutor in this case has chosen not to prosecute Barb. The reason is entirely up for speculation, but it doesn't really matter with regard to how Chris is prosecuted.



**CHARACTER LIMIT REACHED, FAQ CONTINUES IN LATER POST**


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Feb 23, 2022)

Having to split due to character limit.

---

This is taking a long time. When will the trial be?



> There will probably never be a trial. In the US, approximately 95% of criminal convictions result from plea deals rather than a trial.
> 
> This is because trials are expensive and time consuming, and prosecutor's offices have limited time, budget, and manpower. In tiny Greene County, the prosecutor's office consists of the prosecutor and his secretary.
> 
> ...



But I want a trial where the jury has to watch the GenoSamuel documentary, or read CWCki articles!



> Even in the extremely unlikely event that the case goes to trial, this will still not happen for two reasons.
> 
> First, J&DR court does not do jury trials. All trials in J&DR are bench trials, where you only have to convince the judge, not a jury. For there to be a jury trial, Chris would have to be charged with a felony and have it brought to Circuit Court, or Chris would have to lose his bench trial and then request on appeal a second trial in Circuit Court with a jury.
> 
> ...



So is Chris going to be committed to an insane asylum/psychiatric hospital?



> Most likely not. Following the deinstitutionalization reforms of the 1960's-1980's, civil commitment became almost impossible for more than a brief period. Being mentally deficient is no longer grounds to be involuntarily committed to a facility. This situation was achieved by an alliance of voters who compassionately did not want to control people against their will, and people who did not want to fund the state hospitals that housed those who were committed.
> 
> You can now only be committed if you are ruled an immediate mortal danger to yourself or others, or so incapacitated that you are completely unable to care for yourself on a basic level. Making bad decisions that will eventually kill you does not count. The issue is that most people who fit this mold instead wind up committing a crime and are sent to prison instead of a hospital.
> 
> ...



But he was in a state hospital! Doesn't that mean he was committed?



> He has not received civil commitment. When he was in a state hospital, he was only in this status while he is in custody awaiting resolution to his court case. While this can continue for up to 5 years, his status to continue with his case will be dependent on him not being a danger to himself, or him being able to assist in his defense. This is a lower bar than being incapacitated. Once his court case is resolved, either though a plea agreement or through trial, and his sentence has been deemed completed, he would have to receive civil commitment. The bar for this is much higher, though if he is convicted on a sexually violent felony then there are lowered standards for civil commitment.
> 
> It is unlikely, but they can also seek civil commitment while he is in custody, convict him with only time served, or simply drop the charges altogether. In the extremely unlikely event the verdict is NGRI, he will likely also receive civil commitment.



So does this mean that the Homeless Saga will begin once Chris is released?



> Not immediately. A new statute in Virginia, § 53.1-68(C), ironically authored by Chris' former attorney Rob Bell, requires that mentally ill inmates have a discharge plan provided that ensures they receive ongoing care and services. The state is only responsible for this for up to 30 days, but it must be something that is planned to be ongoing.
> 
> It has been speculated that Chris will be placed in some sort of assisted living program, but this is all behind closed doors so nothing is publicly known.
> 
> How good a plan Chris would get, and how badly he could mess it up are up to speculation. He could still wind up homeless if the state drops the ball or (more likely) Chris does something to mess it all up.



Will Chris be allowed to move back to 14 Branchland Court?



> Probably not. As long as Barb lives there, he will probably be banned from all but supervised visits.
> 
> There is currently speculation that Barb is being moved out of 14BC, but no confirmation.
> 
> ...



But can't Chris just inherit 14BC and return there?



> (EDIT: Leavng, but fixing a completely retarded mistake I made about homestead exemption here so nobody else includes it in an updated FAQ.)
> 
> Yes, possibly, but this is unlikely as Chris lacks the management skills to make this happen. The following is speculation, and is what I understand to the best of my knowledge:
> 
> ...



When Chris is convicted, will he be forced to register as a sex offender?



> (Edited to correct errors: There are no residency restrictions for sex crimes that are not with minors, and no loitering restrictions except for rape-by-incapacitation)
> 
> Possibly, but probably not. Incestuous intercourse, or oral/anal, with a non-incapacitated adult, does not result in a requirement to register. A second violation, after incarceration, of oral/anal with your mother (but NOT penis-in-vagina sexual intercourse), is an offense against a two strikes statute, requiring a maximum sentence, but it does not put you on the sex offender registry.
> 
> ...



Will Chris get the death penalty or be put away for life?



> No. And the fact that this question keeps coming up is utterly retarded.
> 
> By SCOTUS ruling, you can't be given the death penalty unless your actions resulted in someone's death. This is usually taken to mean intentional murder. Furthermore, Virginia has abolished the death penalty.
> 
> ...



What about Chris' tugboat? Is it taken away now? Will it be taken away if he's convicted? What if he has to register as a sex offender?



> Chris is on SSDI. When he was in jail, as he was not yet convicted, federal regulations state that he should still have been receiving it. It has been pointed out that some facilities mistakenly report pre-conviction inmates to the Social Security Administration as convicted ones. If this is the case, then his tugboat would have been mistakenly suspended, but he could have been unsuspended and receive back pay by notifying the SSA of his status.
> 
> However, if his stay in the state hospital was for being incompetent to stand trial, his tugboat would have been suspended after 30 days in the hospital. He will have to get it restarted now that he has returned to jail awaiting trial, or if upon release he is convicted and released with time served. If Chris was sent to the hospital for some other reason, then theoretically his tugboat was not suspended.
> 
> ...



Can Chris still qualify for Section 8/Housing Choice Vouchers to pay for his future housing? What if he's a registered sex offender?


> Chris qualifies for HCVs. There is a waiting list for them in various housing authorities, and the waiting list can vary based on availability of housing and nature of the applicant. Chris' condition may allow him to jump the line somewhat, and if they can locate housing specifically for him this may also make it possible to get vouchers sooner.
> 
> Chris is still eligible for HCVs if he is a Tier 1 sex offender.
> 
> In the extremely unlikely event he is convicted of rape, as a Tier 3 lifetime sex offender he would be denied HCVs.



Will Chris' case affect future law?



> Probably not.
> 
> If something completely insane and newsworthy happens with Chris' case, then it could create pressure for changes from the government, but thus far there has been little interest in the mass media other than some salacious pieces from tabloid sites like the Daily Mail, and a brief segment by Tucker Carlson on Fox News. News sources in the Charlottesville area are covering it, but not extensively.
> 
> ...



How do I look at the records of how Chris' court case is proceeding?



> Online, you can't. As mentioned before, J&DR court does not publish court information online. Updates will only be available by contacting the court clerk.
> 
> Any releaseable information will be public record, and that information will be very sparse unless you are a party to the case (law enforcement, attorney, victim or witness, family member). You will be most likely to succeed in getting the information from the clerk by visiting them in person. Calling the clerk and asking directly is the next most likely way. You can also write the clerk with a request by mail, but that has a high chance of being rejected.
> 
> ...


----------



## The American Hedgehog (Mar 1, 2022)

Opening thread.

Please keep replies on-topic to improving the FAQ. General speculation should go in other threads.


----------



## Smleman303 (Mar 1, 2022)

The American Hedgehog said:


> Opening thread.
> 
> Please keep replies on-topic to improving the FAQ. General speculation should go in other threads.


First question, what if Chris does not improve in his sixth month hospital stay?


----------



## Second-Hand Boat Supplies (Mar 1, 2022)

Smleman303 said:


> First question, what if Chris does not improve in his sixth month hospital stay?



Addressing this and providing a link to a general overview of the topic. Here is a slide deck from the state of Virginia summarizing the process with the relevant legal citations.



			https://dbhds.virginia.gov/assets/document-library/archive/library/forensics/ofo-legal%20training%20module%203.pdf
		


If it does not improve, they simply reassess Chris's competency and go in front of a judge again to say as such, (there are other possible outcomes, but they seem far less likely.) This assessment, as well as whatever assessment has already been performed, is required to do more than just say "Chris is crazy" or not. The forensic psychologist who conducts it must give specific ways that the defendant's mental state prevents them from understanding their situation as well as the ways these may be remedied.

For the sake of the FAQ, are there any other plausible explanations for the transfer? Although it's reasonable and likely based on Chris's behavior, the transfer, and the six month delay, it is still a bit of an assumption on our part that this was due to incompetency to stand trial


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 1, 2022)

Second-Hand Boat Supplies said:


> For the sake of the FAQ, are there any other plausible explanations for the transfer? Although it's reasonable and likely based on Chris's behavior, the transfer, and the six month delay, it is still a bit of an assumption on our part that this was due to incompetency to stand trial



You're correct, there are multiple reasons he could be sent for treatment (which, based on personal experience, is still the most likely explanation for transfer without listing the name of the facility). Please continue to discuss this in the facility transfer thread -- I'm following it closely for new information and plausible explanations.

I'm trying to put together something to summarize all possibilities, based on the information that is coming out now. Spamton's most recently received letter was very concerning. I'm trying to get this updated today once I have something I'm comfortable that is accurate and not too speculative.

Any other questions -- with answers even if you feel confident, are welcome. Questions should not be too unique -- this is more for questions that are or will probably be frequently asked, as it's a FAQ.


----------



## JAKL II (Mar 1, 2022)

How is Chris affording this?



> It is possible that he is having money transferred from his tugboat



No, No its not. Once he went inside all of his disability payments stopped, they do not collect/bank up either and will only continue if and when he is released to the public. The Government is already paying to house him in the Jail, they are not paying him to stay there.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 1, 2022)

JAKL II said:


> How is Chris affording this?
> 
> 
> 
> No, No its not. Once he went inside all of his disability payments stopped, they do not collect/bank up either and will only continue if and when he is released to the public. The Government is already paying to house him in the Jail, they are not paying him to stay there.



This has already been discussed a lot in various threads, but Chris is still entitled to his payments while in jail *until he is convicted*. This is explicitly stated in the Social Security Administration's policies and operations manuals. Payments may have stopped if the jail he's in erroneously reports him in a way that does not differentiate his status from convicted, but he is still entitled to back pay if this happened. I may need to include a link to this in the FAQ. If you want to discuss this further please put it in another thread.


----------



## Level 43 (Mar 2, 2022)

If Chris is being involuntarily committed for being incompetent to stand trial, does that time count as time served (e.g., for the one year max for misdemeanor incest), or is it dead time? If he's just in a hospital for treatment would that count as time served, as you're just there because you need the treatment?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 2, 2022)

Level 43 said:


> If Chris is being involuntarily committed for being incompetent to stand trial, does that time count as time served (e.g., for the one year max for misdemeanor incest), or is it dead time? If he's just in a hospital for treatment would that count as time served, as you're just there because you need the treatment?


Yes, if it is a state hospital: § 53.1-187


----------



## Uncle Meat (Mar 2, 2022)

If Chris has been remanded to a mental hospital, a FAQ for jail is going to become largely obsolete, isn't it?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 2, 2022)

Uncle Meat said:


> If Chris has been remanded to a mental hospital, a FAQ for jail is going to become largely obsolete, isn't it?



Yes. I'm trying to figure out the changes now. I think I'll leave the jail content in though, as it's still entirely possible that Chris goes back to jail, and possibly prison. Probably less likely now, but still possible.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 3, 2022)

Faq updated. Please move second post upward to below first post @The American Hedgehog


----------



## Islamic Taylor Swift (Mar 3, 2022)

How will it work when Chris is released eventually? I’m not familiar with jail release, only prison. I don’t think he’ll have his car, wherever he’s released from - does VA do some sort of public bus thing from county, or Greyhound, orrrrr?


----------



## normankrasner (Mar 3, 2022)

do the mental hospitals in VA have cable TV and vidya for their patients?

how is mental hospital food?


----------



## FinnSven (Mar 3, 2022)

Maybe here is the best place to ask?

Is it possible someone qualified  at the hospital can tell the judge that Chris is too much of a risk to be released into society, now, in six months and for at least a number of years? 

Could Chris find himself in a long term stay in a secure hospital? 

I know Pointless Sperg has said that the point is that they are trying to get him well enough to stand trial, but surely medical professionals would have a moral duty if they really think Chris is unfit for prison, release or even a tard home?


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 3, 2022)

Informative thank you


----------



## A Grey Cat (Mar 4, 2022)

> Probably not. As long as Barb lives there, he will probably be banned from all but supervised visits.


Unless a restraining order is put in place as part of Chris's plea deal. As it is there's nothing keeping Chris from simply going back to 14 branchland court aside the obvious "he's in jail/the nut house and serving time while awaiting a verdict."


> Possibly, but probably not. Incestuous intercourse, or cunnilingus, on a first offense, with an adult, does not result in a requirement to register,


Slightly off topic but in some states not even being a necrophile and violating dead bodies or human remains sexually requires any sor registration. It still can result in serious charges including loss of any licenses depending on your profession if it was tied to the act (coroner, mortician even a hearse driver) but since some places let necrophiles off easy who knows what they'll do to Chris.

 Really he's only lucky it wasn't a minor or child he got busted with. Despite clown world society (for some ungodly reason) trying to get people to accept it, Chris would have been chewed up and spit out for being a chomo. By both the court and the jail.



normankrasner said:


> do the mental hospitals in VA have cable TV and vidya for their patients?
> 
> how is mental hospital food?


They might have a TV with crappy over the air free broadcast tv (since state funding is shit, nobody's gonna wanna stretch an already thin budget for cable tv or streaming) which means Chris's options for TV will be limited to local news pbs, bbc, and network tv (fox cbs nbc abc)  and even that's a big IF. Usually mental institutes will keep a tv with a DVD player and some videos of cheap bland inoffensive material for the patients to watch, usually children's programs ironically enough. Usually compilations of things like Looney tunes, Scooby Doo, the Smurfs, the Flintstones, the Jetsons, ect.


----------



## Ophelia (Mar 4, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> As it is there's nothing keeping Chris from simply going back to 14 branchland court


Changing the locks plus calling the cops might do it. He doesn’t have a legal right to be there, does he?


----------



## A Grey Cat (Mar 4, 2022)

Ophelia said:


> Changing the locks plus calling the cops might do it. He doesn’t have a legal right to be there, does he?


There's no legal precident currently keeping Chris from returning.(aside his incarceration) If one isn't applied when they eventually do sentence him (a court ordered restraining order or even another epo)  then he can just as easily knock on the door or walk back in. Of course if Barb is still living there and still living when Chris gets out she herself can tell Chris to piss off and go away. Wether he listens and does so is another story entirely.


----------



## Optimus Prime (Mar 4, 2022)

Ophelia said:


> Changing the locks plus calling the cops might do it. He doesn’t have a legal right to be there, does he?


That's not going to stop him from standing around the house or attempting to break in by throwing a rock at a window to get access to the lock on the inside.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 4, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> There's no legal precident currently keeping Chris from returning.(aside his incarnation) If one isn't applied when they eventually do sentence him (a court ordered restraining order or even another epo)  then he can just as easily knock on the door or walk back in. Of course if Barb is still living there and still living when Chris gets out she herself can tell Chris to piss off and go away. Wether he listens and does so is another story entirely.


You have to look at if Barb actually spilled the beans on Chris herself...

She did not.

This either indicates that she was unwilling to turn her son in (out to fear or love I can't say) or because she's just that too far gone.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 4, 2022)

Please keep this thread for discussion of the FAQ or suggestions of questions that need to be added. e,g, talking about 14BC can go in "Future of the House". Staff okayed stickying this thread for the FAQ but wanted to keep it locked so it didn't turn into a big discussion thread.


----------



## WolfGurl69 (Mar 4, 2022)

Would anyone watch his trial/case on TV? or that just me?


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 4, 2022)

WolfGurl69 said:


> Would anyone watch his trial/case on TV? or that just me?


I don't know but we better keep it off topic I mean on on!!!!


----------



## A New Kiwi (Mar 4, 2022)

@WolfGurl69 I would definitely watch the trial, yeah.

I dunno if this is considered an appropriate question for the thread, but to get a clearer picture of how senile someone has to be in order to be considered incapacitated, or be considered unable to consent or viewed as a rational person in general: on the 7-stage scale of Alzheimer's, where would one have to fall before they'd be considered incapacitated? https://www.alzheimers.net/stages-of-alzheimers-disease

I would imagine that Stage 4 patients would be treated just as normal adults. Stage 7 would obviously be incapcitated. 5 and 6 I don't know about. 5's especially blurry.


----------



## WolfGurl69 (Mar 4, 2022)

A New Kiwi said:


> @WolfGurl69 I would definitely watch the trial, yeah.
> 
> I dunno if this is considered an appropriate question for the thread, but to get a clearer picture of how senile someone has to be in order to be considered incapacitated, or be considered unable to consent or viewed as a rational person in general: on the 7-stage scale of Alzheimer's, where would one have to fall before they'd be considered incapacitated? https://www.alzheimers.net/stages-of-alzheimers-disease
> 
> I would imagine that Stage 4 patients would be treated just as normal adults. Stage 7 would obviously be incapcitated. 5 and 6 I don't know about. 5's especially blurry.


Barb is stage Seven correct?


----------



## A New Kiwi (Mar 4, 2022)

WolfGurl69 said:


> Barb is stage Seven correct?


Is this bait? Assuming that she does have dementia and wasn't just acting for the camera (I'm very curious what the state determined regarding her mental status the past half a year), she would be around Stage 5. There is a world of difference between 5 and 7.


----------



## WolfGurl69 (Mar 4, 2022)

A New Kiwi said:


> Is this bait? Assuming that she does have dementia and wasn't just acting for the camera (I'm very curious what the state determined regarding her mental status the past half a year), she would be around Stage 5. There is a world of difference between 5 and 7.


No, I know nothing about Barb's illness.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 4, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> I don't know but we better keep it off topic I mean on on!!!!



I mean I'm just saying what I was told was needed as a condition for having it stickied.



A New Kiwi said:


> @WolfGurl69   I dunno if this is considered an appropriate question for the thread, but to get a clearer picture of how senile someone has to be in order to be considered incapacitated, or be considered unable to consent or viewed as a rational person in general: on the 7-stage scale of Alzheimer's, where would one have to fall before they'd be considered incapacitated?



From exact Virginia code (which I should add a link to):

"Mental incapacity" means that condition of the complaining witness existing at the time of an offense under this article which prevents the complaining witness from understanding the nature or consequences of the sexual act involved in such offense and about which the accused knew or should have known.

i.e. Barb was not incapacitated if she a) knew she was having sexual contact with Chris, and b) She knew that it was illegal.


----------



## normankrasner (Mar 4, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> Usually mental institutes will keep a tv with a DVD player and some videos of cheap bland inoffensive material for the patients to watch, usually children's programs ironically enough. Usually compilations of things like Looney tunes, Scooby Doo, the Smurfs, the Flintstones, the Jetsons, ect.


like Good Burger or those bargain bin tapes Barb bought with old public domain toons?


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 4, 2022)

1/10. Needs more blacks.


----------



## Elaine Benes (Mar 6, 2022)

Reading this in the club lmao

If Barb passes before Chris is released, she'd be able to return to 14BC, correct?


----------



## Optimus Prime (Mar 6, 2022)

Elaine Benes said:


> Reading this in the club lmao
> 
> If Barb passes before Chris is released, he'd be able to return to 14BC, correct?


I don't think so.

The house still has a mortgage on it and since Chris is in a mental ward, it would pass to the next of kin who I believe would be the people who stepped in after Chris was arrested.

That house is _gone _as far as Chris should be concerned.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 6, 2022)

Optimus Prime said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> The house still has a mortgage on it and since Chris is in a mental ward, it would pass to the next of kin who I believe would be the people who stepped in after Chris was arrested.
> 
> That house is _gone _as far as Chris should be concerned.



Chris is the next of kin, followed by Cole, followed by David and Carol. Since Bob died first, Chris and Cole have the strongest claim to the inheritance, with Chris taking priority. If Barb dies with a will giving it all to Chris, then Cole is out of the picture.

If Barb is no longer there, Chris can certainly move back to the house with Barb's permission, but payments on the mortgage must continue. If Barb dies, Chris is free to inherit the house as long as he continues mortgage payments, which could be low enough that his tugboat could cover them, however Barb's other creditors, at least previously, had ~20k in debt that Chris would also be responsible for if he inherited the house. He would also have to make good on those payments to keep the house.

If Chris could secure a HCV, combined with his tugboat it could make mortgage payments and pay off the remaining debts on Barb's estate. Also, it looks like the homestead exemption in Virginia is now $25,000, so if they managed to get their outstanding mortgage debt to under $25k (VERY doubtful has they had closer to $75k last I heard), Barb's estate could declare bankruptcy and discharge all of her other debts, leaving Chris only responsible for the mortgage.

Of course all of this would require financial management that Chris does not possess, so someone else would have to set him up with it, and he would also have to not fuck it up. Realistically unless someone is seriously managing Chris, he will no longer be able to live at 14BC.

EDIT: Of course if Barb sells the house at Aunt Harriet's instruction, or if Aunt Harriet gets power of attorney, then Chris' wishes are completely null and void.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 8, 2022)

Some minor updates added. Larger ones to come later.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Mar 9, 2022)

How likely is it that some ween could get 14 BLC and turn it into a "Museum of Fail"?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 9, 2022)

ToroidalBoat said:


> How likely is it that some ween could get 14 BLC and turn it into a "Museum of Fail"?



Very unlikely and I don't think that will go into the FAQ unless I see it appear more often as more than "What If" humor. (I still like my idea of turning 14BC into a scary Chris dark ride)


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 9, 2022)

Elaine Benes said:


> Reading this in the club lmao
> 
> If Barb passes before Chris is released, he'd be able to return to 14BC, correct?


Not if he's cut out of the will.  And not for long even then, because it's almost certainly getting foreclosed on.  Assuming Barb even has a will.  If she dies intestate, I believe her heirs are Chris and Cole.  It's questionable whether there's even any equity to salvage.  We don't really know.  For all we know they stopped paying months ago.

Yes, this seems pretty clear:


> § 64.2-200. Course of descents generally; right of Commonwealth if no other heir.​A. The real estate of any decedent not effectively disposed of by will descends and passes by intestate succession in the following course:
> 
> 1. To the surviving spouse of the decedent, unless the decedent is survived by children or their descendants, one or more of whom are not children or their descendants of the surviving spouse, in which case, two-thirds of the estate descends and passes to the decedent's children and their descendants, and one-third of the estate descends and passes to the surviving spouse.
> 
> 2. If there is no surviving spouse, then the estate descends and passes to the decedent's children and their descendants.


It goes on for quite a while after that but this seems to have the situation covered if we're looking at intestate succession.


Pointless Sperg said:


> Very unlikely and I don't think that will go into the FAQ unless I see it appear more often as more than "What If" humor. (I still like my idea of turning 14BC into a scary Chris dark ride)


Would it have the rape chamber where audio-animatronic Chris forever rams his bent duck into audio-animatronic Barb late at night, while Moon River plays softly in the background?


----------



## draggs (Mar 9, 2022)

I wonder if the TRO that sent Chris off to the hotel was made permanent or is still in effect; that would ostensibly keep him from returning to 14 BC.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 9, 2022)

draggs said:


> I wonder if the TRO that sent Chris off to the hotel was made permanent or is still in effect; that would ostensibly keep him from returning to 14 BC.



I very much doubt it. You generally don't renew EPOs over and over, and Barb, at least before the accident, was talking to Chris willingly. Aunt Harriet may have convinced Barb to get a restraining order finally, but we don't know for sure. I may clarify this better in the FAQ although I do mention it already.


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 9, 2022)

draggs said:


> I wonder if the TRO that sent Chris off to the hotel was made permanent or is still in effect; that would ostensibly keep him from returning to 14 BC.


No, the emergency protective order would have gone away in 72 hours (or shortly thereafter) unless replaced with a preliminary protective order after a hearing.  We don't really know whether or not that happened.  It's kind of a moot point as he's locked up anyway.  A permanent protective order could be part of the final judgment.


----------



## Ecto-1A (Mar 10, 2022)

How strict is the diet in a state hospital compared to jail?


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 10, 2022)

Ecto-1A said:


> How strict is the diet in a state hospital compared to jail?


It's institutional food fed to people who don't want to be there.  So it goes to the lowest bidder.  It ranges from surprisingly good to barely keep you alive.  Baloney sandwich type shit.


----------



## WolfGurl69 (Mar 10, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> It's institutional food fed to people who don't want to be there.  So it goes to the lowest bidder.  It ranges from surprisingly good to barely keep you alive.  Baloney sandwich type shit.


like public school food?


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Mar 10, 2022)

Is Chris' next hearing still on Julay 28th?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 11, 2022)

ToroidalBoat said:


> Is Chris' next hearing still on Julay 28th?



Very good question. It would be good if somebody checked.


----------



## Shovel Mech Pilot (Mar 11, 2022)

WolfGurl69 said:


> like public school food?


If it can be easily made in large batches, then it's on the menu. Very similar logic to public school food - they need to feed a lot of people for the lowest possible cost. It's definitely enough calories - I looked it up once, and the State of VA shoots for over 2500 calories per day. It is definitely not a bowl of gruel and a slice of bread as some people expect. Think hot dogs, meatloaf, sandwiches, that sort of thing along with fruit and chips.


----------



## Stephanie Bustcakes (Mar 11, 2022)

Shovel Mech Pilot said:


> If it can be easily made in large batches, then it's on the menu. Very similar logic to public school food - they need to feed a lot of people for the lowest possible cost. It's definitely enough calories - I looked it up once, and the State of VA shoots for over 2500 calories per day. It is definitely not a bowl of gruel and a slice of bread as some people expect. Think hot dogs, meatloaf, sandwiches, that sort of thing along with fruit and chips.



In that case I'd expect them to serve things like bread, rice, and beans, or some combo of those fairly often.


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 11, 2022)

Stephanie Bustcakes said:


> In that case I'd expect them to serve things like bread, rice, and beans, or some combo of those fairly often.


A lot more typical would be industrial sized cans and containers of stuff, like that shit pizza they had in public school, or the "they call this lasagna" pasta, or the creamed corn, or other high carb, low protein crap that keeps you alive but doesn't let you bulk up like a roid monster.

Think Aramark.  Which is actually one of the major providers.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 11, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> A lot more typical would be industrial sized cans and containers of stuff, like that shit pizza they had in public school, or the "they call this lasagna" pasta, or the creamed corn, or other high carb, low protein crap that keeps you alive but doesn't let you bulk up like a roid monster.
> 
> Think Aramark.  Which is actually one of the major providers.



Well, specifically Sysco food, which provides a lot of the stuff Aramark uses.


----------



## oramge cat (Mar 12, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Very unlikely and I don't think that will go into the FAQ unless I see it appear more often as more than "What If" humor. (I still like my idea of turning 14BC into a scary Chris dark ride)


I've said it before but the problem with trying to monetize 14BC is that the target demographic (weens) doesn't have enough money to make it worthwhile. Plus if the toys and most of the hoard are gone, what's the point? An aspiring investor would need to lovingly recreate all of Chris's bullshit and some of his toys would be hard and expensive to replace. If the rumors of the house being cleaned out are true, all his OC like the wall of originals, the Sonichu OC's and everything else that might be of value to somebody are gone.

Also who's dick do I have to suck to get a ween to go out to the house and give us an update? Please don't do this, no trolling plans, yada yada, but why hasn't it happened yet? They were out in force when he first got arrested.


----------



## Stephanie Bustcakes (Mar 12, 2022)

oramge cat said:


> Also who's dick do I have to suck to get a *ween* to go out to the house and give us an update? Please don't do this, no trolling plans, yada yada, but why hasn't it happened yet? They were out in force when he first got arrested.


You people keep using this word incorrectly. Don't make Null bring back the word filter again.


----------



## oramge cat (Mar 12, 2022)

Stephanie Bustcakes said:


> You people keep using this word incorrectly. Don't make Null bring back the word filter again.


What would the proper term be? Always irritates me when someone is like "ur wrong" and doesn't say why I'm wrong.


----------



## Stephanie Bustcakes (Mar 12, 2022)

oramge cat said:


> What would the proper term be? Always irritates me when someone is like "ur wrong" and doesn't say why I'm wrong.


 This is what the cwcki is for. https://sonichu.com/cwcki/Weening


----------



## kiwi farms killed my dog (Mar 12, 2022)

oramge cat said:


> What would the proper term be? Always irritates me when someone is like "ur wrong" and doesn't say why I'm wrong.


i believe you'd call them a nigger


----------



## The Fabian Strategy (Mar 12, 2022)

Shovel Mech Pilot said:


> If it can be easily made in large batches, then it's on the menu. Very similar logic to public school food - they need to feed a lot of people for the lowest possible cost. It's definitely enough calories - I looked it up once, and the State of VA shoots for over 2500 calories per day. It is definitely not a bowl of gruel and a slice of bread as some people expect. Think hot dogs, meatloaf, sandwiches, that sort of thing along with fruit and chips.


Guess I can't commit any crimes. Public school food makes me sick by just smelling it. I'm not even that picky, either- I just can't stand that shit in particular.


----------



## TayandYou (Mar 13, 2022)

oramge cat said:


> What would the proper term be? Always irritates me when someone is like "ur wrong" and doesn't say why I'm wrong.


The term you're looking for is field agent

People will only give you shit if you start digging through his trash or something


----------



## DeeCeeBees (Mar 13, 2022)

WolfGurl69 said:


> like public school food?


Prisons usually adhere to something close to the military diet. One meat, one starch, one vegetable. A lot of the time it gets mixed together like chilimac with corn so you get one big sloppy spoonful on a plate.


----------



## TurdFondler (Mar 13, 2022)

Anyone that wants to know what institutional food looks like should just hop on over to the Lucas Werner thread. Usually pretty palatable, nutritionally balanced if ugly and boring food.


----------



## James Q Wilson (Mar 14, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Well, specifically Sysco food, which provides a lot of the stuff Aramark uses.


Don't forget the classic staple of public schools and hospitals everywhere, Gordon's.


----------



## Cedric_Eff (Mar 14, 2022)

TurdFondler said:


> Anyone that wants to know what institutional food looks like should just hop on over to the Lucas Werner thread. Usually pretty palatable, nutritionally balanced if ugly and boring food.


Im guessing Chris’s gonna come out lookin like skin and bones I presume?


----------



## TurdFondler (Mar 14, 2022)

Cedric_Eff said:


> Im guessing Chris’s gonna come out lookin like skin and bones I presume?


Either same or fatter. The portions are usually fairly generous and he will probably be put on meds that will make/keep him fat. 

Werner went into the nuthut at like 400lbs and came out a year or so later just shy of 300? If you went in at a healthy BMI you'd probably leave with saddlebags but if you're obese you'll be less so, usually.


----------



## A Grey Cat (Mar 14, 2022)

Could Chris be kept institutionalized via court hearings for the rest of his life? Going by what I've read, so long as the prosecution meets after every continence and declares him incompetent every time it's theoretically possible. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if that was Greene county's plan all along.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 14, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> Could Chris be kept institutionalized via court hearings for the rest of his life? Going by what I've read, so long as the prosecution meets after every continence and declares him incompetent every time it's theoretically possible. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if that was Greene county's plan all along.



They can, but after enough times they can also declare him unrestoreable, and he essentially stays in permanently until the hospital declares him to be better. If it lasts 5 years (or 1 year on certain misdemeanors, but not on this kind I think since it's still a potential felony), the charges are automatically dropped, and they have to decide whether to keep him forever or not. To keep him forever though they have to declare him certified, not just incompetent.

I forgot to include the dropped charges in the FAQ. The rules for this are REALLY complicated and I could be mistaken on the limits on this particular charge.

EDIT: If anyone else wants to take a stab at it:



			https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/19.2-169.3/


----------



## thegooddoctor (Mar 14, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> They can, but after enough times they can also declare him unrestoreable, and he essentially stays in permanently until the hospital declares him to be better. If it lasts 5 years (or 1 year on certain misdemeanors, but not on this kind I think since it's still a potential felony), the charges are automatically dropped, and they have to decide whether to keep him forever or not. To keep him forever though they have to declare him certified, not just incompetent.
> 
> I forgot to include the dropped charges in the FAQ. The rules for this are REALLY complicated and I could be mistaken on the limits on this particular charge.


Wait, that’s allowed, forgive me if I’m missing something but I thought you said that Chris hasn’t committed  a crime worth being locked up that long, nor has he been officially declared incompetent or mentally ill enough to be properly institutionalised against how will. Even if he declared mentally unfit to integrate with society wouldn’t commuting him be a  strong case of human rights violation?

Chris has proven himself to be at least moderately functioning, living independently to a degree and being able to drive, work a paid job once, but basic food and travel out of his home without supervision. Even with his insane fantasies he was still capable of doing all this, is it really honestly that likely  that he’ll be declared unrestorable and be taken in by a hospital? I personally don’t think so. Chris is  simply not on the level of  a complete low functioning intellectually disabled person, nor screaming lunatic schitzo murderer that would have legitimate reasons to be protected by The US health system.

However, if he is declared incompetent, what would normally be the breaking point after a particular number of court continuances, after how many courts sessions  would they eventually conclude he’s too incompetent to be held accountable and he’ll be taken in by medical faculties. Roughly speaking how long would it take  estimation wise?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 14, 2022)

thegooddoctor said:


> Wait, that’s allowed, forgive me if I’m missing something but I thought you said that Chris hasn’t committed  a crime worth being locked up that long, nor has he been officially declared incompetent or mentally ill enough to be properly institutionalised against how will. Even if he declared mentally unfit to integrate with society wouldn’t commuting him be a  strong case of human rights violation?



Oh I doubt he'd get 5 years on a felony conviction, but that's not what's important. If he were in jail, he could ask to be let go after a year (i.e. prosecutor has to decide whether to get a felony indictment). If he's incompetent though, I don't know if they need to bother with the indictment -- it doesn't look like it from my reading. They can just indict him when he gets out of the hospital. The hospital stay is to return him to competency -- it's not a sentence. As soon as he's competent, they'll have to make a decision. 

If he's still incompetent after 5 years, they have to decide what to do with him. They can let him go, determine him to be incapacitated and send him to hospital, or determine him to be incapacitated and send him to a tard training center. 

The thing is, even though the charges are dropped, they can bring the charges up again if he ever gets better (subsection G). So basically all that changes is if he's committed after 5 years, he doesn't have the restrictions of being incarcerated, and just becomes a normal looney toons (still locked up). Of course if they charged him again he'd have 5 years of time served banked up (time in civil commitment after the 5 years wouldn't count as time served), so they might not bother unless they REALLY wanted to try to get more than that.



thegooddoctor said:


> Chris has proven himself to be at least moderately functioning, living independently to a degree and being able to drive, work a paid job once, but basic food and travel out of his home without supervision. Even with his insane fantasies he was still capable of doing all this, is it really honestly that likely  that he’ll be declared unrestorable and be taken in by a hospital? I personally don’t think so. Chris is  simply not on the level of  a complete low functioning intellectually disabled person, nor screaming lunatic schitzo murderer that would have legitimate reasons to be protected by The US health system.
> 
> However, if he is declared incompetent, what would normally be the breaking point after a particular number of court continuances, after how many courts sessions  would they eventually conclude he’s too incompetent to be held accountable and he’ll be taken in by medical faculties. Roughly speaking how long would it take  estimation wise?



He can easily be declared unrestorably incompetent. All the unrestorable status means is they don't have to do the 6 month court dates over and over. The hospital can still contact the court and say "he's good now" and they can set a new court date. 

After the 5 years he would have to be declared incapacitated (except for murder and sexually violent crimes -- he would have to be charged with rape, basically), and that would be harder to do for the reasons you mentioned. They might have to let him go. Subsection G says if he's found competent, he can be charged again, but if they let him go while unrestorable, that would mean he hadn't been found competent. It's a really weirdly-written statute. I suppose if you voluntarily went to a doctor and were declared competent they could charge you.

Incompetence doesn't mean you can't be held accountable, it just means you can't stand trial. Incapacitated means you can't be held accountable, but only if you were incapacitated at the time of the crime. However since incapacitated also implies incompetent, you still can't go to trial (but you go to the looney bin).

If I'm reading this right, if Chris is never restored to competency, but isn't ruled incapacitated, then he just gets to walk after 5 years.  

Still, on release, as a mentally ill homeless inmate, they're still required to set him up with some sort of care upon release. And really, he was never going to get more than 5 years anyway. So tard home is still the most likely outcome.


----------



## Lancelot (Mar 15, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Oh I doubt he'd get 5 years on a felony conviction, but that's not what's important. If he were in jail, he could ask to be let go after a year (i.e. prosecutor has to decide whether to get a felony indictment). If he's incompetent though, I don't know if they need to bother with the indictment -- it doesn't look like it from my reading. They can just indict him when he gets out of the hospital. The hospital stay is to return him to competency -- it's not a sentence. As soon as he's competent, they'll have to make a decision.
> 
> If he's still incompetent after 5 years, they have to decide what to do with him. They can let him go, determine him to be incapacitated and send him to hospital, or determine him to be incapacitated and send him to a tard training center.
> 
> ...


This kinda reminds me of the canadian case of the schizophrenic who chewed a dudes face off on the bus.   The dude chose to stop taking his meds,  went nuts and then murdered a dude and ate his face on a greyhound bus. 

Despite choosing to end his medication and apparently planning out his actions ahead of time; the courts declared him not guilty for reason of insanity ( well the canadian equivalent)  and he ultimately only served five years in  a mental institution. Pretty sure he had supervised release within 2 as well .


----------



## A Grey Cat (Mar 15, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> they can also declare him unrestoreable,


They really should just save everyone the trouble and do that here and now. He'll never be normal or a fully functional member of society ever. He's too set in his ways and nothing short of a lobotomy (no longer practiced except under VERY rare circumstances) or shock therapy (also controversial but less so than a lobotomy) will make him even remotely salvageable as a person.


ok ok all joke takes aside, I doubt Greene county will drag this out for 5 years without reaching a decision. Despite being a small town with almost nothing better to do they don't have the money or time to drag this out that long. Nor do they wanna waste money babysitting Chis by kepping him in the system. Hehe heh money that's what this all ultimately boils down to in the end.


----------



## Ophelia (Mar 15, 2022)

Lancelot said:


> This kinda reminds me of the canadian case of the schizophrenic who chewed a dudes face off on the bus.   The dude chose to stop taking his meds,  went nuts and then murdered a dude and ate his face on a greyhound bus.
> 
> Despite choosing to end his medication and apparently planning out his actions ahead of time; the courts declared him not guilty for reason of insanity ( well the canadian equivalent)  and he ultimately only served five years in  a mental institution. Pretty sure he had supervised release within 2 as well .


On the other hand, it doesn’t seem like he’s reoffended. As long as his crazy ass stays in Canada, shine on you crazy diamond. But we should stay on topic.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 15, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> They really should just save everyone the trouble and do that here and now. He'll never be normal or a fully functional member of society ever. He's too set in his ways and nothing short of a lobotomy (no longer practiced except under VERY rare circumstances) or shock therapy (also controversial but less so than a lobotomy) will make him even remotely salvageable as a person.



There's a difference between incompetent and incapacitated though. For them to hold him forever they have to find him incapacitated. Although the probability of that finding might be more likely after 5 years in a mental hospital.



A Grey Cat said:


> ok ok all joke takes aside, I doubt Greene county will drag this out for 5 years without reaching a decision. Despite being a small town with almost nothing better to do they don't have the money or time to drag this out that long. Nor do they wanna waste money babysitting Chis by kepping him in the system. Hehe heh money that's what this all ultimately boils down to in the end.



Well, it's not even up to Greene County to decide if he's competent or not. That's up to the doctors (the judge has to approve it, but he'll go based on the evidence the doctors provide). Greene County could decide to drop the charges and let him go, which would just force the incapacitated decision sooner. I'm curious about the training center option though, as I'm not really familiar with it. It seems to be halfway between a mental hospital and a tard home.

On searching, it seems Virginia has closed four of its five training centers, because the supreme court ruled that you can't certify someone involuntarily. You can only be sent to one voluntarily, or as an option if you're deemed incapacitated but they still think you'll do better there than in a mental hospital.

So a tard home is probably more likely, but the one remaining training center still seems like a good environment for Chris. He'd be around other slow-in-the-minds but not around the shrieking crazies. Maybe if they can find a bed there somehow he could voluntarily go there, or everyone just agrees to declare him incapacitated and he goes there instead of staying in looney bin. It's unlikely though as it only has 85 beds.



			https://sevtc.dbhds.virginia.gov/


----------



## A Grey Cat (Mar 15, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> There's a difference between incompetent and incapacitated though. For them to hold him forever they have to find him incapacitated. Although the probability of that finding might be more likely after 5 years in a mental hospital.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From the website:


> learning opportunities in areas such as employment, communication, language, self-care, independent living, socialization, recreation, leisure, music, academic skills and motor development.



Which are all things Chris has utterly failed at all through his life. So yeah I agree this might be a good place to send him, almost too good. Then of course you have to remember places like this aren't Chris's ideal vision of a "soup hotel." A community like this isn't gonna take him in and let him laze around in his little cottage all day turning it into a second 14 Branchland complete with hoard. Chris is gonna be expected to actually learn to be self sufficient and leave one day, move out of the community or at least support it in some way and pull his weight.

Well Pointless, depending on what happens if they ever do reach a verdict with Chris this FAQ may have to be updated to include a tard home/Tard community FAQ


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Mar 15, 2022)

Even the way Chris is getting prosecuted and held in custody seems like a lolcow.

Endless continuances, banned from the jail rec room, protective custody, vanishes to who-knows-where...


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 15, 2022)

Cedric_Eff said:


> Im guessing Chris’s gonna come out lookin like skin and bones I presume?


It isn't fucking Auschwitz.  He'll come out looking more or less like he went in looking unless he seriously exerts himself to do otherwise.


----------



## The Un-Clit (Mar 15, 2022)

oramge cat said:


> What would the proper term be? Always irritates me when someone is like "ur wrong" and doesn't say why I'm wrong.


A ween is quite simply a low-effort failtroll trying to get a reaction out of Chris for as little effort as possible. I don't understand why this is hard.


----------



## Ophelia (Mar 15, 2022)

The Un-Clit said:


> A ween is quite simply a low-effort failtroll trying to get a reaction out of Chris for as little effort as possible. I don't understand why this is hard.


Because since too many people misused the term it became confusing, even for the well-meaning. Especially for people who are still learning the lingo.


----------



## Gnarly Sharpie (Mar 16, 2022)

Because the FAQ mentions ‘speedy trial’ sometimes, one should note that Chris could not exercise his right to a speedy trial now if he (or rather, his lawyer) wished. Since the pneumonia outbreak began two years ago, Virginia has declared ‘judicial emergency’ and tolled all deadlines for speedy trials every month: <https://vacourts.gov/news/items/covid/scv_emergency_orders.pdf>. None of his time so far in gaol counts for this. Any demand for a speedy trial must come six months after this indefinite delay ends.


----------



## Q_Anon1001 (Mar 16, 2022)

This might be the wrong place to ask this question but @Pointless Sperg youve mentioned how Chris was planning on making his address book public. Is this his way of maliciously doxxing the trolls who have sent him letter. Or Is this him doing something that he in his 'tard way thinks is good?


----------



## Mary Jane (Mar 16, 2022)

Q_Anon1001 said:


> This might be the wrong place to ask this question but @Pointless Sperg youve mentioned how Chris was planning on making his address book public. Is this his way of maliciously doxxing the trolls who have sent him letter. Or Is this him doing something that he in his 'tard way thinks is good?


I'm interested to see what PS says, but my imagined scenario would be Chris doing something like posting photos of the Tard Rolodex on twitter to show off his "fame"/"popularity".


----------



## 185405 (Mar 17, 2022)

Does Chris gets HRT at the jail/facility thing? Does anyone know if he was still taking them or if he can request it?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 17, 2022)

Q_Anon1001 said:


> This might be the wrong place to ask this question but @Pointless Sperg youve mentioned how Chris was planning on making his address book public. Is this his way of maliciously doxxing the trolls who have sent him letter. Or Is this him doing something that he in his 'tard way thinks is good?



I have absolutely no idea why, only that he said he intended to. The reasoning behind it we can only speculate about. I suppose he considers the "good ones" will be promoted and exalted so people can send them gifts, and the "toxic minority" will be trolled back.

But that's just me pulling stuff out of my ass. I didn't want to speculate on the reasons in the FAQ. I try to limit speculation to stuff where we have some idea of why things might happen but we're not sure (for instance the reason for Chris being in a mental hospital -- we don't know if it was for incompetence or because of self harm, but the six month delay would be in line with waiting for an incompetence hearing, so I'm leaning that direction.)



185405 said:


> Does Chris gets HRT at the jail/facility thing? Does anyone know if he was still taking them or if he can request it?



Possibly, if he had a prescription going in, he could still fill it there probably. I don't have any experience with jails/mental hospitals in Virginia. If he'd quit taking them he might not even think to try to get a new prescription. But from what I've read, inmates in Virginia are indeed entitled to HRT if they are diagnosed with gender dysphoria. 

Might add this to the FAQ.


----------



## Sho'nuff (Mar 17, 2022)

Ophelia said:


> Because since too many people misused the term it became confusing, even for the well-meaning. Especially for people who are still learning the lingo.



Just catching up on Chris at this stage is like watching GoT for the first time in S8.


----------



## Individualism Incarnate (Mar 17, 2022)

WolfGurl69 said:


> like public school food?


Its either on par with prison food or actually really good for cafeteria shit.


----------



## Doomguy246 (Mar 20, 2022)

https://reviews.birdeye.com/western-state-hospital-148143749145019
		


Did anybody ever see these reviews? Some of these are 'scary' sounding and over a month old. (So no weeens.)


----------



## Skitterways (Mar 20, 2022)

Doomguy246 said:


> https://reviews.birdeye.com/western-state-hospital-148143749145019
> 
> 
> 
> Did anybody ever see these reviews? Some of these are 'scary' sounding and over a month old. (So no weeens.)


Okay, Kevin D. has 8 reviews on page 1 and 2 combined. Kevin Davis the Jehovah's Witness has 5 reviews on page 1 and 2 combined and there is another review on page 2 by just plain old Kevin Davis. My guess is they are all the same person who needs to stay on their psych meds and learn punctuation.


----------



## Philosophy Phil (Mar 20, 2022)

Skitterways said:


> Okay, Kevin D. has 8 reviews on page 1 and 2 combined. Kevin Davis the Jehovah's Witness has 5 reviews on page 1 and 2 combined and there is another review on page 2 by just plain old Kevin Davis. My guess is they are all the same person who needs to stay on their psych meds and learn punctuation.


New thread on Kevin D when?


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 20, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Possibly, if he had a prescription going in, he could still fill it there probably. I don't have any experience with jails/mental hospitals in Virginia. If he'd quit taking them he might not even think to try to get a new prescription. But from what I've read, inmates in Virginia are indeed entitled to HRT if they are diagnosed with gender dysphoria.


What if he tries to demand a cock chop to make him sane enough to stand trial?


----------



## ANobody (Mar 20, 2022)

Philosophy Phil said:


> New thread on Kevin D when?


Paranoid Schizo Jehova's Witness sounds like a cow ready for milking.


AnOminous said:


> What if he tries to demand a cock chop to make him sane enough to stand trial?


Legal incapacity and mental illness are not the same thing. I dont think theres any precedent of body dismorphia as incapacitating.


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 20, 2022)

ANobody said:


> Legal incapacity and mental illness are not the same thing. I dont think theres any precedent of body dismorphia as incapacitating.


I don't think anyone's tried it yet.


----------



## Pickle Inspector (Mar 20, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> I don't think anyone's tried it yet.


It’d be interesting with the old idea of gender dysphoria versus the new definition of trans where before Chris would almost certainly be declared too mentally unfit to decide he was trans compared to now where there’s increasing demand there be no barrier and gender is entirely up to the individual to self declare no matter what.

Being in a mental health facility I’m guessing they’ll take a hardball approach and let Chris know he’s in no position to make demands.


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 21, 2022)

Pickle Inspector said:


> Being in a mental health facility I’m guessing they’ll take a hardball approach and let Chris know he’s in no position to make demands.


I don't think it would work in Virginia but there are probably Clown States where it would.


----------



## ANobody (Mar 21, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> I don't think it would work in Virginia but there are probably Clown States where it would.


I dont think any doctor would be willing to make life altering surgery on a person who's being declared incapable. Chris is also uninterested in losing his cock. He needs it to fuck all those lesbians he'll totally nail one day.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 21, 2022)

My thoughts on Chris being held  for the rest of his days in Western are this:

It ain't happenin'.

They're not going to feed and shelter a man who could literally drive, feed himself, dress himself and "think for himself".

Chris is a mindless nut, to be sure, but he's not a braindead potato.

...

At least not yet.


----------



## ANobody (Mar 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> My thoughts on Chris being held  for the rest of his days in Western are this:
> 
> It ain't happenin'.
> 
> ...


Chris seems stuck in an awkward position where he's too much of a grating, soft pussyboy to go to prison and just capable enough that permanent internment isn't possible either


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 21, 2022)

ANobody said:


> Chris seems stuck in an awkward position where he's too much of a grating, soft pussyboy to go to prison and just capable enough that permanent internment isn't possible either


I guess we won't know until the cuckoo flies the nest...

That is if we ever hear from him again.

I'm not sure but I wonder if it's possible Chris has been placed in witness protection due to all the harassment and infamy around him.

It isn't too unfeasible to see that Chris's a danger to himself and others and might be spirited away to some permanent halfway house outside of Virginia where he'll have very restricted internet access and could even be encouraged to change his name and appearance.

I know it seems kind of extreme but due to all the trolls and just backlash he received on Facebook and Twitter in general, it could be perceived that Chris would be enemy number one if he resurfaced out in the open.

Chris has plenty of enemies, former allies and people who just detest him in general.

If people recognize Chris it could be disastrous, and people will recognize him, so the idea that he goes onto a new life with a new identity is not that unlikely.

I'm going to go with either this theory or the one where he's institutionalized for the rest of his days if let's say by Halloween we don't hear from him.


----------



## ANobody (Mar 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> I guess we won't know until the cuckoo flies the nest...
> 
> That is if we ever hear from him again.
> 
> I'm not sure but I wonder if it's possible Chris has been placed in witness protection due to all the harassment and infamy around him.


Impossible, witness protection by neccesity requires you to be a threathened judicial witness testifying against someone. Considering Chris is only witness to  the crime of him viciously buggering his mom he cannot qualify for that shit.

 I dont believe psych treatment can legally encourage you to literally change identities either, that seems super unethical.


----------



## Exceptional Chimp (Mar 21, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> If Chris could secure a HCV, combined with his tugboat it could make mortgage payments and pay off the remaining debts on Barb's estate. Also, it looks like the homestead exemption in Virginia is now $25,000, so if they managed to get their outstanding mortgage debt to under $25k (VERY doubtful has they had closer to $75k last I heard), Barb's estate could declare bankruptcy and discharge all of her other debts, leaving Chris only responsible for the mortgage.
> 
> Of course all of this would require financial management that Chris does not possess, so someone else would have to set him up with it, and he would also have to not fuck it up. Realistically unless someone is seriously managing Chris, he will no longer be able to live at 14BC.


So basically the house is gone unless Null repents and becomes Chris's financial tard wrangler as well?

Realisticly, what are the odds the tugboat can be taken by whatever institution he's sent to post conviction/declaration of incompetence? I know private lenders can't touch it but can the state help itself to care for Chris with federal benefits, which is what they're supposed to be for (instead of some Lego).


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 21, 2022)

Exceptional Chimp said:


> So basically the house is gone unless Null repents and becomes Chris's financial tard wrangler as well?



Or a social worker. There would be a benefit to the state of Virginia in this case as Chris would not be taking up limited section 8 housing stock, and he'd be entirely funded by the federal government, not Virginia. 

That said I doubt they'd go to so much trouble, and Chris could still fuck it up anyway.


----------



## JanuaryViolet (Mar 21, 2022)

Doomguy246 said:


> https://reviews.birdeye.com/western-state-hospital-148143749145019
> 
> 
> 
> Did anybody ever see these reviews? Some of these are 'scary' sounding and over a month old. (So no weeens.)


Did you *read* them?  The writers of the bad ones are obviously batshit insane,


----------



## Bent_Duck (Mar 21, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> It isn't fucking Auschwitz.  He'll come out looking more or less like he went in looking unless he seriously exerts himself to do otherwise.



In terms of vitamins and minerals and such, Chris is probably getting what his body needs, assuming he cleans his plate.

I definitely agree that he'll still be a fatass when this saga is done, but this is probably the healthiest that Chris has been, as far as nutrition is concerned, since the spaghetti incident that made Barb stop cooking.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 21, 2022)

ANobody said:


> Impossible, witness protection by neccesity requires you to be a threathened judicial witness testifying against someone. Considering Chris is only witness to  the crime of him viciously buggering his mom he cannot qualify for that shit.
> 
> I dont believe psych treatment can legally encourage you to literally change identities either, that seems super unethical.


We don't know that he's not in witness protection.

He could be a magic genie by now for all we know...

And we don't know anything other than he's been transferred.


----------



## ANobody (Mar 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> We don't know that he's not in witness protection.
> 
> He could be a magic genie by now for all we know...
> 
> And we don't know anything other than he's been transferred.



Fair. Im just saying he ain't witness to shit, Jack. So being in witness protection without a person to testify against would be highly unusual.


----------



## Ophelia (Mar 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> We don't know that he's not in witness protection.


What did he witness? The powers that be don’t just give witness protection status to every tard who commits a crime after being bullied on the internet. There aren’t scores of dummies who used to go by different names and have different faces roaming around our great country. 

Chris is not that special. He’s special to us as OPL, but in the grand scheme of things he’s nobody. A brief mention on a Fox show with a host who gets his name wrong isn’t fame. 

If courts took meanies on the internet seriously, Patrick wouldn’t owe Quasi money for his stupid lawsuit.


----------



## Sope Roap (Mar 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> My thoughts on Chris being held  for the rest of his days in Western are this:
> 
> It ain't happenin'.
> 
> ...


Hospitals typically have a review process for patients after a period of time to determine if they are well enough to be removed from inpatient care and can be let out on an outpatient treatment plan, but the patients have to adhere to that or they can be legally committed again depending on their severity when they came in. In criminal cases, they will hold a patient until they are deemed suitable to stand trial, but very rarely do they transfer them back to jail as to prevent any mishaps thanks to culture shock or more lenient observation. When Chris is deemed competent he’ll still be at Western State until he gets whatever penalty the judge hands down.

What will very likely happen is Chris will be held until he is viewed competent, but mental hospitals need open beds so they won’t treat him to “normal” levels, just enough that he can can participate in his defense without throwing a temper tantrum or delivering a sermon about the Merge. If his sentencing is time served, he’ll likely be let out on a strict outpatient care plan that he will have to adhere to or he can be legally detained and committed.

Knowing Chris, I give him two weeks before he goes back in.


----------



## Dr. Silvestrechu (Mar 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> You have to look at if Barb actually spilled the beans on Chris herself...
> 
> She did not.
> 
> This either indicates that she was unwilling to turn her son in (out to fear or love I can't say) or because she's just that too far gone.


Barb craves that CWCsicle


----------



## A Grey Cat (Mar 24, 2022)

Sope Roap said:


> participate in his defense without throwing a temper tantrum or delivering a sermon about the Merge


Ha! Good luck with that one western State.  Tantrums maybe they can correct his behavior enough to avoid them but the merge? Chris would rather die than have his only method of coping with how miserable his life had become stripped away from him.


----------



## Bent_Duck (Mar 24, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> We don't know that he's not in witness protection.
> 
> He could be a magic genie by now for all we know...
> 
> And we don't know anything other than he's been transferred.





ANobody said:


> Fair. Im just saying he ain't witness to shit, Jack. So being in witness protection without a person to testify against would be highly unusual.





Ophelia said:


> What did he witness? The powers that be don’t just give witness protection status to every tard who commits a crime after being bullied on the internet. There aren’t scores of dummies who used to go by different names and have different faces roaming around our great country.
> 
> Chris is not that special. He’s special to us as OPL, but in the grand scheme of things he’s nobody. A brief mention on a Fox show with a host who gets his name wrong isn’t fame.
> 
> If courts took meanies on the internet seriously, Patrick wouldn’t owe Quasi money for his stupid lawsuit.



He witnessed Sonichu and Jesus giving Barb the D and needs protection from their wrath before testifying against them.


----------



## Ophelia (Mar 25, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> Ha! Good luck with that one western State.  Tantrums maybe they can correct his behavior enough to avoid them but the merge? Chris would rather die than have his only method of coping with how miserable his life had become stripped away from him.


He can keep his cope, he just can’t go on about it during the Court’s time.


----------



## Ghost Got Double Dipped (Mar 25, 2022)

Forgive my slow in the mindedness about this but didnt some people in trucks come remove a bunch of Chris's stuff from the house awhile back?


----------



## Carlton Smith (Mar 25, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> Ha! Good luck with that one western State.  Tantrums maybe they can correct his behavior enough to avoid them but the merge? Chris would rather die than have his only method of coping with how miserable his life had become stripped away from him.


Two words. Liquid. Cosh.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Mar 25, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> Chris would rather die than have his only method of coping with how miserable his life had become stripped away from him.


The Teflon Tard 3: Chris Breaks the System.


----------



## Ophelia (Mar 25, 2022)

Ghost Got Double Dipped said:


> Forgive my slow in the mindedness about this but didnt some people in trucks come remove a bunch of Chris's stuff from the house awhile back?


We don’t know. No one witnessed this iirc, it was a rumor.


----------



## Optimus Prime (Mar 25, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> We don't know that he's not in witness protection.


Oh, we know.

I mean, think about it - we're talking Christian Weston Chandler, who was oh so _very_ proud of his initials "CWC" that he plastered it all over everything, the whole "Ian Brandon Anderson" debacle over Liquid Chris, and of course still retaining it in his however long name with Sonichu and Jesus thrown in.

Witness protection would require him to _change his name_. He wouldn't like that, nor would he like this immediately meaning he could no longer claim to be the original CWC (which would mean he'd ironically become a fake Chris himself - Solidus Chris? Venom/Punished Chris?). So he'd take to the internet and try to be cagey about it, giving 'hints' or something. Much the same way how he claimed to be in a relationship with an older girlfriend (Who turned out to be Barb).

And Chris fucking sucks at subtlety (I mean...JenkinsJinkies happened ) so he'd immediately give himself away.

As such, because nobody has seen anybody claim to be the originator of Sonichu lately, Chris isn't in witness protection.


----------



## Casual Garbage (Mar 26, 2022)

Optimus Prime said:


> Oh, we know.
> 
> I mean, think about it - we're talking Christian Weston Chandler, who was oh so _very_ proud of his initials "CWC" that he plastered it all over everything, the whole "Ian Brandon Anderson" debacle over Liquid Chris, and of course still retaining it in his however long name with Sonichu and Jesus thrown in.
> 
> ...


I remember how he tried to stay on the downlow on the Tomboy/Tomgirl Forum, but just couldnt keep his mouth shut.


----------



## Ken_Penders69 (Mar 30, 2022)

As far as I know it's still yet to be given official confirmation whether chris is in a mental institution.  So I'd like to weigh in on a theory I have.  Christian is an internet celebrity (a shitty z list one but an internet celebrity regardless) He gets busted and sent to jail.  Due to the nature of his offense he's placed into protective custody to avoid death by vigilante justice.  All this happens while the problem of jail/prison overcrowding is in full swing. More and more weens, white knights, enablers and orbiters created unprecedented extra work for staff as they had to process gifts like money, Quarans and various letters.  The traffic to the jails website shut it down.  With all this chris' lawyer saw this as an opertunity to strike a deal to get Chris to stop incriminating him self in letters/phone calls.  As a result chris was transfered to another jail with a lower population and better methods for dealing with "fans" (where idk). My theory isn't flawless I think its more likely the picture of the transfer page lacked the new facilities name was due to hippa.  But I think its possible there was a document that just didn't get leaked for what ever reason


----------



## Skitterways (Mar 30, 2022)

Ken_Penders69 said:


> As far as I know it's still yet to be given official confirmation whether chris is in a mental institution.  So I'd like to weigh in on a theory I have.  Christian is an internet celebrity (a shitty z list one but an internet celebrity regardless) He gets busted and sent to jail.  Due to the nature of his offense he's placed into protective custody to avoid death by vigilante justice.  All this happens while the problem of jail/prison overcrowding is in full swing. More and more weens, white knights, enablers and orbiters created unprecedented extra work for staff as they had to process gifts like money, Quarans and various letters.  The traffic to the jails website shut it down.  With all this chris' lawyer saw this as an opertunity to strike a deal to get Chris to stop incriminating him self in letters/phone calls.  As a result chris was transfered to another jail with a lower population and better methods for dealing with "fans" (where idk). My theory isn't flawless I think its more likely the picture of the transfer page lacked the new facilities name was due to hippa.  But I think its possible there was a document that just didn't get leaked for what ever reason


Getting transferred from a jail to another jail/prison isn't covered under HIPAA. Getting transferred from a jail to a medical facility (psych ward) is protected information under HIPAA. Just FYI.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Mar 30, 2022)

Skitterways said:


> Getting transferred from a jail to another jail/prison isn't covered under HIPAA. Getting transferred from a jail to a medical facility (psych ward) is protected information under HIPAA. Just FYI.



I think he was saying that he was under some sort of identity protection program, which does NOT happen in the US. They do this in some other countries, but only after the person has completed their sentence. Some countries do not release the name and facility of the defendant, but in the US this is only done if the defendant is a minor.

No place in the US is going to keep this stuff secret, unless the person is acting as a witness against some bigger fish. In Chris' case, HIPAA is the only plausible explanation.

(Also why do people keep calling it "hippa"? The only explanation I can come up with is that it sounds like "hippo" or something.)


----------



## Bent_Duck (Mar 31, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> I think he was saying that he was under some sort of identity protection program, which does NOT happen in the US. They do this in some other countries, but only after the person has completed their sentence. Some countries do not release the name and facility of the defendant, but in the US this is only done if the defendant is a minor.
> 
> No place in the US is going to keep this stuff secret, unless the person is acting as a witness against some bigger fish. In Chris' case, HIPAA is the only plausible explanation.
> 
> (Also why do people keep calling it "hippa"? The only explanation I can come up with is that it sounds like "hippo" or something.)


In the name of the Commodor, and of the Godbear, and of the Hippo-spirit, amen.


----------



## Sharkbait (Apr 1, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> (Also why do people keep calling it "hippa"? The only explanation I can come up with is that it sounds like "hippo" or something.)


This may be because I didn't sleep all that much and I'm dead fucking tired, but I had this mental image of a hippo sitting on a pile of medical records snarling at everyone who comes to close, and the image just fucking cracked me up way too hard.


----------



## A Grey Cat (Apr 2, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> I think he was saying that he was under some sort of identity protection program, which does NOT happen in the US. They do this in some other countries, but only after the person has completed their sentence. Some countries do not release the name and facility of the defendant, but in the US this is only done if the defendant is a minor.
> 
> No place in the US is going to keep this stuff secret, unless the person is acting as a witness against some bigger fish. In Chris' case, HIPAA is the only plausible explanation.
> 
> (Also why do people keep calling it "hippa"? The only explanation I can come up with is that it sounds like "hippo" or something.)


People,  It's actually an acronym for 
Health 
Insurance
Portability
 and 
Accountability Act

Hipaa not hippa. Though a lifetime ago I did some volunteer work at a hospital and yes they did think it was cute to have a cartoon hippo in a doctors outfit in the header of any hipaa documents.


----------



## Mesh Gear Fox (Apr 2, 2022)

A Grey Cat said:


> Hipaa not hippa. Though a lifetime ago I did some volunteer work at a hospital and yes they did think it was cute to have a cartoon hippo in a doctors outfit in the header of any hipaa documents.


The hospital I was working at when HIPAA was enacted gave us all these pens shaped like hippos.  Kinda wish I kept one.


----------



## Kitty Kow (Apr 10, 2022)

If he really is at Western State, woah. Staunton is my go to town, and my Mother owns a business five minutes away form Western State. If he is actually there it's crazy to think of how close he is to where I go.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Apr 11, 2022)

Kitty Kow said:


> If he really is at Western State, woah. Staunton is my go to town, and my Mother owns a business five minutes away form Western State. If he is actually there it's crazy to think of how close he is to where I go.


In my fantasies that would involve wandering around the outer fence with a megaphone claiming to be Sonichu, seeing who puts their face up against the window.


----------



## Therealhomor (Apr 17, 2022)

It's crazy to think about, but this is the first time in 15 years that Chris' exact location and status weren't known to the internet at large. He's had quiet periods and dry spells, but we've always known where he was living, and had a general idea of how things were going to for him. This is the first time he's been truly off the radar in a long while.


----------



## ANobody (Apr 18, 2022)

Therealhomor said:


> It's crazy to think about, but this is the first time in 15 years that Chris' exact location and status weren't known to the internet at large. He's had quiet periods and dry spells, but we've always known where he was living, and had a general idea of how things were going to for him. This is the first time he's been truly off the radar in a long while.


To be fair Chris isnt exactly Anthony Bourdain. The answer to "where in the world is chris chan" is usually "where he's been his whole miserable life"


----------



## Hexbox (Apr 20, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> In my fantasies that would involve wandering around the outer fence with a megaphone claiming to be Sonichu, seeing who puts their face up against the window.


*FATHER, WHERE ARE YOU?!*


----------



## AnOminous (Apr 20, 2022)

Hexbox said:


> *FATHER, WHERE ARE YOU?!*


My Brother Where Art Thou.


----------



## Michael Janke (Apr 25, 2022)

this is an interesting question related to the amount of time chris has served in prison thus far. counting good behavior accumulated in jail, hasn't chris served something like 10 months or more?
if he's only being charged with 12 months. the fact they haven't moved on it yet could indicate that Chris lawyer suspects a good chance of chris being charged with something else that could extend the amount of time he serves beyond 12 months.








						How is my jail time determined in Virginia?
					

In Virginia, some crimes carry mandatory minimum prison sentences in which a judge must sentence you to. See rules for calculating jail time in Virginia.




					www.greenspunlaw.com
				



im not sure, but i think chris can get early release at 10.2 months or 85 percent of what he's being charged with, though it's not guaranteed and could come with probationary conditions, which chris would have a high chance of violating. i guess we have to wait another 2 months when he hits 12 and see what happens.

now you might ask, "didn't chris get a bunch of continuances when he hit Micheal Snyder, what's the difference?"
well, the main difference is that chris wasn't sitting in jail the whole time. why would you keep the person you're defending in jail for so long if the amount of time they are serving is longer then the sentence itself? some reasons could be if you're sure your defendant is innocent and you can get them off. or if they aren't innocent and you can get them off anyway. maybe you can arrange a damn good plea deal, though if he wants to help chris, maybe he can stick around and get his record expunged. most misdemeanors can get expunged, though incest might be excluded. i think chris does have his next hearing in june. lining up exactly the amount of time served. we'll just have to see if he ends up in jail longer than that.

can someone calculate how much time he served plus jail time bonuses? i think the FAQ said 50% bonus, hosptal time has no bonus, but still counts towards overall time. chris ended up in jail in august, then in february he went to the state hospital. that's 6 months, plus 3 for the 50% bonus, plus 2 more months up to april. so assuming he gets the entire bonus, that's 11 months. can someone correct that.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Apr 25, 2022)

Michael Janke said:


> this is an interesting question related to the amount of time chris has served in prison thus far. counting good behavior accumulated in jail, hasn't chris served something like 10 months or more?
> if he's only being charged with 12 months. the fact they haven't moved on it yet could indicate that Chris lawyer suspects a good chance of chris being charged with something else that could extend the amount of time he serves beyond 12 months.
> 
> 
> ...



Good conduct bonuses wouldn't be counted until there's an actual sentence. When you're convicted and sentenced, they factor in the bonuses you earned previously in jail. I suppose an attorney could argue this, but it's kind of moot since Chris is now most likely in a state hospital, and the law for this situation is fairly clear that the deadline for final determination is based on the time since arrest vs. maximum sentence, not some sort of time served calculation.

And, again, Chris can be charged with a felony while in J&DR court, he just can't be indicted or convicted. Ordinarily there'd be a shit-or-get-off-the-pot moment (this is the case in most states, including Virginia, but apparently not in Mississippi), but while Chris' case is on hold because of the mental hospital saga, a charge might be able to just sit. We'll find out in July.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Apr 30, 2022)

Kitty Kow said:


> If he really is at Western State, woah. Staunton is my go to town, and my Mother owns a business five minutes away form Western State. If he is actually there it's crazy to think of how close he is to where I go.


Then you know what you must do.

 The exact opposite of what you're doing.


----------



## A Traveler (May 5, 2022)

I jsut have one Question. Mainly about Chris' lawyer. Did he accept the case, or was he appointed by the court in this instance?


----------



## Ass Johnson (May 5, 2022)

A Traveler said:


> I jsut have one Question. Mainly about Chris' lawyer. Did he accept the case, or was he appointed by the court in this instance?


Fairly sure he was appointed.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (May 6, 2022)

Ass Johnson said:


> Fairly sure he was appointed.



Yes, he was appointed. It's in the background section. Also, FAQ will be updated again soon.


----------



## Hepativore (May 9, 2022)

I have a question... if Chris does go to prison, what type of facility would he be looking at? Since incest is a "wobbler" charge...if he is sentenced to prison, would he be going to a minimum security facility, or do sex crimes automatically result in going to something like a medium security prison? I know that Chris is not necessarily violent, but I know that sex offenses often have rather strange sentencing guidelines compared to other crimes.


----------



## Xarpho (May 9, 2022)

Do we know why Chris went to the prison hospital? I don’t think they put people in there for a month or two simply on delusions of godhood, I’m not sure Chris was on suicide watch, and his new pictures didn’t suggest he was on the receiving end of a beating.


----------



## A Grey Cat (May 10, 2022)

Xarpho said:


> his new pictures didn’t suggest he was on the receiving end of a beating.


They know to always go for the ribs and belly when you beat someone in jail,  so it doesn't show on the mugshots.


----------



## AnOminous (May 10, 2022)

Xarpho said:


> Do we know why Chris went to the prison hospital? I don’t think they put people in there for a month or two simply on delusions of godhood, I’m not sure Chris was on suicide watch, and his new pictures didn’t suggest he was on the receiving end of a beating.


It wasn't a prison hospital, because a) he wasn't in prison; b) it was a state-run independent institution.  We're assuming this was to evaluate whether he was fit to stand trial (that part may have occurred in jail), and if not, to see if he could be rendered fit to stand trial.

Otherwise they can't try him.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (May 10, 2022)

Hepativore said:


> I have a question... if Chris does go to prison, what type of facility would he be looking at? Since incest is a "wobbler" charge...if he is sentenced to prison, would he be going to a minimum security facility, or do sex crimes automatically result in going to something like a medium security prison? I know that Chris is not necessarily violent, but I know that sex offenses often have rather strange sentencing guidelines compared to other crimes.



I am not certain, and someone more familiar with Virginia's courts and penal system would be able to give a better answer, but here's my best guess.

As I understand it, Virginia has been reducing its number of minimum-security prisons (Security Level 1), so just finding a slot might be difficult. Low security would *probably* suit a tard like Chris better than the big house. I believe Chris would qualify for these as long as he is only convicted of felony incest. People guilty of a "violent sex offense" are not allowed in Security Level 1. There is no definiton of "violent sex offense" in Virginia code, though I assume they mean "sexually violent offense", which is defined in 37.2-900, and incest isn't in it.

The biggest wildcard would be Chris' mental health issues, and possible need of protective custody.

Here's the full operating procedures for determining what security level an inmate qualifies for:



			https://vadoc.virginia.gov/files/operating-procedures/800/vadoc-op-830-2.pdf


----------



## Glassshardballpit (May 10, 2022)

Why do people get their Laffy in a Taffy if people get jail and prison wrong?

Simply come to the appropriate thread and find out for yourself.

No need to have conniption fits, guys.


----------



## Sparkletor 2.0 (May 10, 2022)

From my understanding, you can't take stuff from jail to the mental hospital and vice versa, Does this mean Chris lost everything he had? Does he need money for a new prayer rug?


----------



## AnOminous (May 10, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> Why do people get their Laffy in a Taffy if people get jail and prison wrong?
> 
> Simply come to the appropriate thread and find out for yourself.
> 
> No need to have conniption fits, guys.


If someone is asking about something, why would you let them go away with the wrong information?


----------



## trickyzerg23 (May 10, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> Why do people get their Laffy in a Taffy if people get jail and prison wrong?
> 
> Simply come to the appropriate thread and find out for yourself.
> 
> No need to have conniption fits, guys.


Because most Farmers have done hard time, and we understand the difference between the clink and the shank, newfag.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (May 10, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> If someone is asking about something, why would you let them go away with the wrong information?


You should not, you should direct them to this pinned thread.



trickyzerg23 said:


> Because most Farmers have done hard time, and we understand the difference between the clink and the shank, newfag.


I'm sorry, I didn't realize that.

I only meant that people got so mad over the two that I didn't realize the significance of what I was saying.

There is a major difference, I see your point.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (May 11, 2022)

Sparkletor 2.0 said:


> From my understanding, you can't take stuff from jail to the mental hospital and vice versa, Does this mean Chris lost everything he had? Does he need money for a new prayer rug?



I have absolutely no idea in Virginia. They are *supposed* to preserve your property.

In some jails and most prisons most "inside" inmate property is "inherited", in exchange for favors/protection. "Help me out and you get my stuff when I leave".  Chris, however, was not interacting with other inmates.


----------



## Bluescreenedmind (May 12, 2022)

trickyzerg23 said:


> Because most Farmers have done hard time, and we understand the difference between the clink and the shank, newfag.


Imagine getting arrested in this day and age.


----------



## I am vomit (May 12, 2022)

Bluescreenedmind said:


> Imagine getting arrested in this day and age.


Imagine not having at least 3 felonies on your record.


----------



## Lance Private Drop Off (May 13, 2022)

I am vomit said:


> Imagine not having at least 3 felonies on your record.


Outside the US it does seem much easier to keep out of the way of the police and justice system.  Private prisons need filling yes?*

/sneed I know that this a very crude take,  but those living in the land of the free, seem to have far more interactions with the law.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (May 13, 2022)

I am vomit said:


> Imagine not having at least 3 felonies on your record.


Imagine knowing your mom in the biblical sense....and you're not even a Whittacker.

Imagine knowing the taste of your own mother, knowing she tastes like piss and luden's cough drops and being aroused by that taste.


----------



## Merried Seinor Coomer (May 13, 2022)

> 1) Barb knew she was fucking Chris.
> 2) Barb knew Chris was her son.
> 3) Barb knew it was illegal. (Basically, did she know the potential consequences)
> 4) Barb had the capacity to either vocalize or physically indicate lack of consent, and did not refuse.


This concise information, courtesy of our fantastic researcher, should probably be in the "Chris raped Barb?" section.


----------



## SpergioLeonne (May 13, 2022)

Lance Private Drop Off said:


> Outside the US it does seem much easier to keep out of the way of the police and justice system.  Private prisons need filling yes?*
> 
> /sneed I know that this a very crude take,  but those living in the land of the free, seem to have far more interactions with the law.


It’s still pretty easy to avoid getting arrested. Just don’t send a kid to school with painfully obvious signs of neglect, drive around drunk or with guns or drugs, and don’t have window-breaking, naked people running around outside fights if you live near other people. Also don’t do shit to get people to call and file a report on you.


----------



## Cotton Puddings (May 22, 2022)

SpergioLeonne said:


> It’s still pretty easy to avoid getting arrested. Just don’t send a kid to school with painfully obvious signs of neglect, drive around drunk or with guns or drugs, and don’t have window-breaking, naked people running around outside fights if you live near other people. Also don’t do shit to get people to call and file a report on you.


don't drive like a cunt, don't get high/drunk in public, don't get in fistfights in public, don't pull guns on people, don't scream at waitresses, don't stalk your ex, don't shoplift...

cops are assholes and i'll never trust them, but sometimes people are stupid fuckers who do stupid fucker shit, and then act surprised when they run afoul of the law. it is really easy to live your life in such a way that you almost never encounter cops


----------



## AnOminous (May 22, 2022)

Cotton Puddings said:


> cops are assholes and i'll never trust them, but sometimes people are stupid fuckers who do stupid fucker shit, and then act surprised when they run afoul of the law. it is really easy to live your life in such a way that you almost never encounter cops


Cops are mostly normal people and not particularly belligerent.


----------



## ANobody (May 26, 2022)

Merried Seinor Coomer said:


> This concise information, courtesy of our fantastic researcher, should probably be in the "Chris raped Barb?" section.


I mean all we have to go on as far as Barb's state of mind is Chris. Hell even assuming barb is capable of consent why are we jumping to the conclusion she did? Isn't it much likelier Chris lying through his teeth a usual?

Maybe barb didnt report it because of the same reason a lot of sexual abuse goes unreported. Telling someone that you're being raped every three days like clockwork by your fat autistic tranny son is mortifying.


----------



## Got Milk! (May 28, 2022)

Can we get the first post updated to reflect Chris's return to jail from the facility he was in.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (May 28, 2022)

Got Milk! said:


> Can we get the first post updated to reflect Chris's return to jail from the facility he was in.



Yeah, I will update. Sorry, took a break from the farms for a bit, unlazying now. =)


----------



## Phalanges Mycologist (May 31, 2022)

Is the judgement Chris receives going to be a matter of public record or will it be concealed in some way due to the sexual nature of the crime?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (May 31, 2022)

Phalanges Mycologist said:


> Is the judgement Chris receives going to be a matter of public record or will it be concealed in some way due to the sexual nature of the crime?



That's addressed in the FAQ already somewhat, but I can update it a bit to be clearer. J&DR does not post information about cases online. As to whether it's on public record, by default it's not sealed and you can get the info from the court clerk.

The one thing you can do online is typically you can see what they were convicted of by checking the court fees/fines system. It won't have much information, just what they were convicted of and how much they owe. It doesn't tell you details about the sentence, etc.

EDIT: To see what it looks like, you can try it out with some generic name like SMITH.


----------



## The American Hedgehog (May 31, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> The one thing you can do online is typically you can see what they were convicted of by checking the court fees/fines system. It won't have much information, just what they were convicted of and how much they owe. It doesn't tell you details about the sentence, etc.
> 
> EDIT: To see what it looks like, you can try it out with some generic name like SMITH.


Will that work in Chris's case? Greene County J&DR doesn't appear to be in the Payment page list.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (May 31, 2022)

The American Hedgehog said:


> Will that work in Chris's case? Greene County J&DR doesn't appear to be in the Payment page list.



Select "Combined Courts" on the left. General District and J&DR are handled by one facility in Greene County since it's a small county. (They have different judges though)


----------



## TruthSeekingDaimon (Jun 3, 2022)

He has been admitting that he had sex with barb.
So what is he getting at minimum?


----------



## AnOminous (Jun 3, 2022)

TruthSeekingDaimon said:


> He has been admitting that he had sex with barb.
> So what is he getting at minimum?


Let out at the next hearing.


----------



## Calefactorite (Jun 3, 2022)

TruthSeekingDaimon said:


> He has been admitting that he had sex with barb.
> So what is he getting at minimum?


Crabs


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 3, 2022)

TruthSeekingDaimon said:


> He has been admitting that he had sex with barb.
> So what is he getting at minimum?



1 year minimum -- because he'll have already served 1 year and there's not point sentencing him to anything less.

If it stays in J&DR court, it's also 1 year *maximum*. So as things currently stand it's pretty much guaranteed to be 1 year. Anything more and he has to be indicted on a felony. This can still happen, but it'd be really weird for them to wait a year to do it if they didn't have another outcome in mind.


----------



## thegooddoctor (Jun 8, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> 1 year minimum -- because he'll have already served 1 year and there's not point sentencing him to anything less.
> 
> If it stays in J&DR court, it's also 1 year *maximum*. So as things currently stand it's pretty much guaranteed to be 1 year. Anything more and he has to be indicted on a felony. This can still happen, but it'd be really weird for them to wait a year to do it if they didn't have another outcome in mind.


I know the maximum of which he'll be sentenced is exactly a decade if a plea bargain is attempted and Chris basically goes apeshit and acts antisocial in the courtroom leading to further charges if he truly screw himself. But what about you, how long do you really think Chris  deserves  sentence wise based on personal bias rather than what he may receive. What would do him any sort of good?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 8, 2022)

thegooddoctor said:


> I know the maximum of which he'll be sentenced is exactly a decade if a plea bargain is attempted and Chris basically goes apeshit and acts antisocial in the courtroom leading to further charges if he truly screw himself. But what about you, how long do you really think Chris  deserves  sentence wise based on personal bias rather than what he may receive. What would do him any sort of good?



What would do him good is not the length of his sentence but what the nature of the sentence is. Just sitting in a cell has done nothing to improve him. What he really needs is to be trained, much the same way you'd train a misbehaving dog. 

Chris will almost certainly not receive a ten year sentence. Maximum sentences are normally reserved for people who are mentally sound and break the law with complete mental faculties, or people who are repeat offenders. Chris is not a repeat offender and he is definitely not mentally sound. 

And until he's indicted it's not even possible for him to receive a ten year sentence.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 8, 2022)

OK, I stopped being a lazy retard and updated the FAQ to reflect current information.


----------



## TruthSeekingDaimon (Jun 16, 2022)

So he is getting out soon.
And did prison did anything to change him?
I am guessing no.


----------



## Kanada cilla choo (Jun 18, 2022)

TruthSeekingDaimon said:


> So he is getting out soon.
> And did prison did anything to change him?
> I am guessing no.


He's getting released? Really?
Also, I figure he's probably gonna regain his weight really fast and end up living with some enablers/some kind of protected housing, or homeless, we'll see. Though personally I bet he's probably gonna get rearrested, figure he's gonna try and go back to his house and get access to Barb again.


----------



## AnOminous (Jun 18, 2022)

Kanada cilla choo said:


> He's getting released? Really?


That's speculation.  Very soon they either have to release him or actually charge him with a felony like rape.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 18, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> That's speculation.  Very soon they either have to release him or actually charge him with a felony like rape.



I don't see a rape charge happening, they'll just do felony incest, or felony cunnilingus. Until they have a deal with a no-prosecute clause, they have a lot of options because there's no statute of limitations on felonies in Virginia.


----------



## 俺たちファームズでノッテる (Jun 19, 2022)

Aight so let's say this trial happens and he's found guilty of incest and possibly rape, and has to spend 2+ years in real prison, due to the fact that he is disabled what accomodations will the prison system give to Cwc?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 19, 2022)

俺たちファームズでノッテる said:


> Aight so let's say this trial happens and he's found guilty of incest and possibly rape, and has to spend 2+ years in real prison, due to the fact that he is disabled what accomodations will the prison system give to Cwc?



Basically the same as he has in jail. He'll be kept separate. He might go into a unit with other sexual deviants, but my bet would be on him not having contact with other prisoners at all.


----------



## anti SJW (Jun 21, 2022)

Not sure this is happening, but it could be because it's Chris.  

If Chris is continually going against the advice of His lawyer, can His lawyer step down from the case and Chris be appointed another lawyer?  

I'm not sure how VA law is with appointed defense lawyers. I know if it happens the case would get delayed again. But I can see the lawyer getting fed up with Chris'  actions.  Especially if it screws up what the lawyer is working on.


----------



## Sweet and Savoury (Jun 21, 2022)

I think if they were going to toss a felony at him they would have done it by now.

He's spent almost a year in jail, he won't be able to go back home to "the temple",his most precious toys are forfeit for the immediate future and he can't see Barb without supervision.

That enough punishment to satiate the Federals. He'll get a misdemeanor and time served is my bet.


----------



## FinnSven (Jun 21, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Basically the same as he has in jail. He'll be kept separate. He might go into a unit with other sexual deviants, but my bet would be on him not having contact with other prisoners at all.


Is that allowed? 

I read about the maximum security prison which people told me to look up. 
It seems the intention of solitary and the bare minimum of existence conditions is as a way to force prisoners to behave in general population. 

Chris will tard out from time to time if faced with living with criminals and certainly men who won’t be tolerant of his delusions and “differences” but recently it seems that he shuts down and curls up rather than gets violent. 
The only time he got really violent was in his car or with pepper spray. Both methods of violence that don’t require muscle. 

Surely if he is the one curled up on the floor getting kicked, he will be the one going to the infirmary and the kickers will be the ones going to solitary. 

I get that he will probably be segregated if he keeps getting beaten up. 
But won’t a prison have a wing or unit more suited for keeping the mentally unsound but not especially violent prisoners? 
Keeping them totally isolated would probably do them much more harm than good.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 21, 2022)

anti SJW said:


> If Chris is continually going against the advice of His lawyer, can His lawyer step down from the case and Chris be appointed another lawyer?
> 
> I'm not sure how VA law is with appointed defense lawyers. I know if it happens the case would get delayed again. But I can see the lawyer getting fed up with Chris'  actions.  Especially if it screws up what the lawyer is working on.



Yes, an attorney can quit with cause, and the client being impossible to work with is cause. It's considered bad form though. What usually happens instead is the attorney clashes with the client until the client fires the attorney and asks for a new one or asks to represent themselves.



Sweet and Savoury said:


> That enough punishment to satiate the Federals. He'll get a misdemeanor and time served is my bet.



The feds have zero involvement. Chris hasn't done anything to warrant federal prosecution. If he trafficked Barb across state lines to fuck her in a state it's legal to fuck your mother, they might be able to hit him with the Mann Act, but that would be a stretch.

(There are three states where Chris could legally fuck Barb. Rhode Island, New Jersey, and Ohio. It's totally legal in Rhode Island and New Jersey. In Ohio it's illegal to fuck your offspring but legal to fuck your parents -- only the parent is committing a crime in that case.)



FinnSven said:


> I read about the maximum security prison which people told me to look up.
> It seems the intention of solitary and the bare minimum of existence conditions is as a way to force prisoners to behave in general population.



Protective custody is not solitary. In PC you can still talk to the guards, get stuff from the commissary, watch TV or play vidya if the prison has it (most do), etc. It's like a normal cell, you just don't get to go into the common areas with other people. 

Chris is in PC now in jail but jails have less amenities so he doesn't get TV or vidya, just an FM radio.

In solitary you are cut off from the world, get fed through a slot in the door, don't get a radio/TV, etc.



FinnSven said:


> I get that he will probably be segregated if he keeps getting beaten up.
> But won’t a prison have a wing or unit more suited for keeping the mentally unsound but not especially violent prisoners?
> Keeping them totally isolated would probably do them much more harm than good.



Yes, some prisons have a sex offender wing, but sometimes prisoners cause such disruption by their mere presence that they have to be kept entirely separate. I can see Chris causing loads of trouble in a chomo pod due to him thinking himself to be superior because he fucked his elderly brainwormed mother instead of those dirty pedoforks who fucked a horny 14-year-old. 

Chris latches on to anything to belittle other people. I could see him getting the shit beaten out of him by a normally mild-mannered prisoner with a perfect good behavior record.
The reason Chris has never had his shit pushed in is because, while he pisses people off, in normal life nobody has had to live with him (except Borb), and in the worst cases he gets banned from the place he's being disruptive at. 

In a prison pod there'd be no escaping him and it could send someone over the edge.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 21, 2022)

Glassshardballpit said:


> So since the time of Chris's trial is coming up, what exactly is everyone going to do if Chris gets released?
> 
> I'd say shit and do whatever, but there's a lot of people that don't like Chris.
> 
> ...



That goes in the "Life After Prison" thread, though it's doubtful Chris will go to prison.


----------



## themarchivist2 (Jun 21, 2022)

If Chris takes a plea deal of one year with time served on the 28th, will they still require him to stay in jail for the few days until the 2nd, or will they likely just let him out immediately?


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Jun 21, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> That goes in the "Life After Prison" thread,


Whoops.


----------



## anti SJW (Jun 21, 2022)

themarchivist2 said:


> If Chris takes a plea deal of one year with time served on the 28th, will they still require him to stay in jail for the few days until the 2nd, or will they likely just let him out immediately?


I think with Chris' case, it will depend on if Chris has housing/ a place to live set up since He can't go back to 14BC.  

I think the other reason for the delay besides time served is the system was looking for a place to put Him.


----------



## themarchivist2 (Jun 21, 2022)

anti SJW said:


> I think with Chris' case, it will depend on if Chris has housing/ a place to live set up since He can't go back to 14BC.
> 
> I think the other reason for the delay besides time served is the system was looking for a place to put Him.


I don't think there was any confirmation that he can't go back to 14BC? I figured since Barb isn't living there and the house has been paid for for the next 6 months it was likely he _would_ be able to briefly return there.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jun 21, 2022)

themarchivist2 said:


> If Chris takes a plea deal of one year with time served on the 28th, will they still require him to stay in jail for the few days until the 2nd, or will they likely just let him out immediately?



It's up to what the deal is and the court. They could theoretically suspend the last few days of the sentence, and use that as leverage for a plea agreement, but it's pretty crappy leverage as the penalty for Chris breaking probation would be going back to jail for a weekend, and then he'd be done with it. 

If I were in Chris' shoes, I would actively try NOT to get the last few days suspended and just finish off the entire sentence. 

To really offer something meaningful to Chris they'd have to offer him a better outcome if he behaves, because once they make the deal they're locked into it. One example would be if they have evidence that Barb was incapacitated, thus making Chris a registered sex offender if convicted, then offer Chris deferred disposition with charges dropped if he completes probation. 

They can't threaten him with more jail time post-deal because he's already done the jail time, so any deal in J&DR with just time served would be toothless. If they want to control Chris' behavior after the deal, there has to be something more. The only thing they can really wield in J&DR now is deferred dispostion with the SOR and/or a suspended $2,500 fine.

They could make a deal with more restrictions if they bumped it up to a felony, made the deal in Circuit Court, and give Chris say a 2-3 year sentence with 1 year served and the rest suspended, meaning Chris only goes to prison if he breaks probation.



anti SJW said:


> I think with Chris' case, it will depend on if Chris has housing/ a place to live set up since He can't go back to 14BC.
> 
> I think the other reason for the delay besides time served is the system was looking for a place to put Him.



Quite possible, though I suspect it had more to do with Chris getting offered 6 months served and 6 months suspended, but Chris chimped out in court at whatever the probation requirements were, or tried to make some grand statement about how he did nothing wrong.

The judge, evaluation in hand, then decided to send Chris off to competence restoration instead.



themarchivist2 said:


> I don't think there was any confirmation that he can't go back to 14BC? I figured since Barb isn't living there and the house has been paid for for the next 6 months it was likely he _would_ be able to briefly return there.



As long as Barb is okay with it there's nothing stopping him from going back there. It can't be part of a guilty plea agreement if he's already done the full sentence, as I discussed above. 

Whether or not he could *stay* there, given his lack of financial acumen, is another matter.


----------



## TruthSeekingDaimon (Jul 1, 2022)

Its been how long? hes already served his sentence.


----------



## PsychoNerd054 (Jul 1, 2022)

TruthSeekingDaimon said:


> Its been how long? hes already served his sentence.


Not quite yet, we still got until the end of the month until his next hearing.


----------



## Ophelia (Jul 1, 2022)

TruthSeekingDaimon said:


> Its been how long? hes already served his sentence.





> When is Chris' next court date?
> 
> 
> 
> > July 28th, 2022.


----------



## Glassshardballpit (Jul 5, 2022)

PsychoNerd054 said:


> Not quite yet, we still got until the end of the month until his next hearing.


And then what?

Quasifucko is thrown to the justice-starved public?



On second thought let him out early.


----------



## themarchivist2 (Jul 5, 2022)

How will Chris get home when he gets out? He has no transportation, nobody to ask for a favor, I presume not enough money to arrange for a taxi, and his phone will definitely be deactivated by then.


----------



## Random Troll (Jul 6, 2022)

Tugboat question. He's in jail (not prison) and not convicted yet, I know.
So he's now receiving his tugboat. However, if he gets convicted to the time spent in jail, does he have to pay some back? Let's say he is in jail for 12 months, and also gets convicted to 12 months, wasn't he then illegally receiving his tugboat during that time? Or does it not work that way?


----------



## ScaliasGhost (Jul 6, 2022)

Random Troll said:


> Tugboat question. He's in jail (not prison) and not convicted yet, I know.
> So he's now receiving his tugboat. However, if he gets convicted to the time spent in jail, does he have to pay some back? Let's say he is in jail for 12 months, and also gets convicted to 12 months, wasn't he then illegally receiving his tugboat during that time? Or does it not work that way?


Without reading the relevant laws, I would assume that the principal you are legally innocent until proven guilty would prevent this situation.


----------



## Undersideofcwcspillow (Jul 6, 2022)

ScaliasGhost said:


> Without reading the relevant laws, I would assume that the principal you are legally innocent until proven guilty would prevent this situation.


Yeah it isn't as if he's been guilty this entire last year. If he's proven guilty, he's guilty from that point forward, right?


----------



## Cold Root Beer (Jul 6, 2022)

Random Troll said:


> Tugboat question. He's in jail (not prison) and not convicted yet, I know.
> So he's now receiving his tugboat. However, if he gets convicted to the time spent in jail, does he have to pay some back? Let's say he is in jail for 12 months, and also gets convicted to 12 months, wasn't he then illegally receiving his tugboat during that time? Or does it not work that way?


SSDI stops once you've been incarcerated for 30 days _after _being convicted of a crime. That means it can't be retroactive. The only way the tugboat would get cut off is if he's convicted and then sentenced to be incarcerated for 30 days or more after the trial (in addition to the time served). 

Given the max sentencing of the current charges and the amount of time he's spent in pre-trial jail coming up to be time served, it basically means that it's impossible for the SSDI to get cut off unless the charges get bumped up at the 11th hour.


----------



## Random Troll (Jul 6, 2022)

Cold Root Beer said:


> SSDI stops once you've been incarcerated for 30 days _after _being convicted of a crime. That means it can't be retroactive. The only way the tugboat would get cut off is if he's convicted and then sentenced to be incarcerated for 30 days or more after the trial (in addition to the time served).


So getting as much time as possible in jail before a conviction actually makes financial sense in this situation? (Not that Chris would know of course)


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 6, 2022)

Random Troll said:


> Tugboat question. He's in jail (not prison) and not convicted yet, I know.
> So he's now receiving his tugboat. However, if he gets convicted to the time spent in jail, does he have to pay some back? Let's say he is in jail for 12 months, and also gets convicted to 12 months, wasn't he then illegally receiving his tugboat during that time? Or does it not work that way?





ScaliasGhost said:


> Without reading the relevant laws, I would assume that the principal you are legally innocent until proven guilty would prevent this situation.





Cold Root Beer said:


> SSDI stops once you've been incarcerated for 30 days _after _being convicted of a crime. That means it can't be retroactive. The only way the tugboat would get cut off is if he's convicted and then sentenced to be incarcerated for 30 days or more after the trial (in addition to the time served).
> 
> Given the max sentencing of the current charges and the amount of time he's spent in pre-trial jail coming up to be time served, it basically means that it's impossible for the SSDI to get cut off unless the charges get bumped up at the 11th hour.





Random Troll said:


> So getting as much time as possible in jail before a conviction actually makes financial sense in this situation? (Not that Chris would know of course)



Responding to all of these in bulk. Read the FAQ entry. I covered this:

"What about Chris' tugboat? Is it taken away now? Will it be taken away if he's convicted? What if he has to register as a sex offender?"

Chris should've ostensibly been still receiving his tugboat while he was in jail awaiting trial, since he had not been convicted yet.

However there is another provision for SSDI to be suspended if you are in a state hospital for more than 30 days due to being incompetent to stand trial. From Chris' statements, he was at WSH to be restored to competence. Therefore his tugboat should have been suspended 30 days after his transfer.

Now that he is no longer in a state hospital, he should be able to get his tugboat restarted, but good luck getting Chris to figure out the paperwork, especially from jail.

Regarding while waiting for trial:






						SSA - POMS: GN 02607.200 - Special Legal Considerations For Prisoner Suspensions
					

Special Legal Considerations For Prisoner Suspensions




					secure.ssa.gov
				




Regarding while incompetent to stand trial:



			https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202607330
		


Regarding reinstating benefits after being released from the state hospital and sent  back to jail, but before being convicted:



			https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202607852


----------



## Random Troll (Jul 7, 2022)

Yeah, sorry, of course I read the FAQ. I wasn't asking about the stuff with the hospital, but in the case that hadn't happened, to keep it simple.
I was just curious about whether it would change anything retroactively, if convicted. Because, where I live (non-USA) you can be sure as hell they will come after you in such a situation.
But thanks, your first link had a good example. Then it dawned on me that SSDI is federal, and it would probably be more clear than the laws in bumfuck nowhere.


----------



## Norman B. Normal (Jul 7, 2022)

themarchivist2 said:


> How will Chris get home when he gets out? He has no transportation, nobody to ask for a favor, I presume not enough money to arrange for a taxi, and his phone will definitely be deactivated by then.


Ethan Ralph will probably be waiting for him outside the jail with the motor running.


----------



## FamicomGorby (Jul 7, 2022)

Norman B. Normal said:


> Ethan Ralph will probably be waiting for him outside the jail with the motor running.


I definitely believe Ethan Ralph will be there. He was a complete pussy about approaching Chris when he went to him the day he got arrested, but that video is the biggest thing that he has ever done so of course he'll do it again. He's gotta talk to Chris to get the inside scoop on that PEDO-FILE JOE-SHEW-A NULL MOON and what he done did to Chris.


----------



## Cherenkovblue (Jul 8, 2022)

FamicomGorby said:


> I definitely believe Ethan Ralph will be there. He was a complete pussy about approaching Chris when he went to him the day he got arrested, but that video is the biggest thing that he has ever done so of course he'll do it again. He's gotta talk to Chris to get the inside scoop on that PEDO-FILE JOE-SHEW-A NULL MOON and what he done did to Chris.


Let it be so if only so one of the weens can start fucking with Ralph causing him to chimp out in front of a police station and get arrested for battery.


----------



## I raped a dog 2day (Jul 14, 2022)

Cherenkovblue said:


> Let it be so if only so one of the weens can start fucking with Ralph causing him to chimp out in front of a police station and get arrested for battery.


Don’t worry.  I’m sure Ethan will do something ridiculous even without prodding by weens.


----------



## AnOminous (Jul 15, 2022)

Random Troll said:


> I was just curious about whether it would change anything retroactively, if convicted. Because, where I live (non-USA) you can be sure as hell they will come after you in such a situation.


Generally the only time they go after you retroactively is if you were overpaid.  If this was accidental, such as by a clerical error, they are generally lenient about repayment and will work something out that doesn't leave you immediately homeless (because obviously in these situations the money is almost always already spent).  If it's for fraud, they will go after it aggressively and without mercy, and may criminally prosecute you as well.

So far as I know, Chris is not in such a situation.


----------



## sbarromuncher (Jul 18, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Now that he is no longer in a state hospital, he should be able to get his tugboat restarted, but good luck getting Chris to figure out the paperwork, especially from jail.


Presumably this would be something his legal team would be able to advise him on?

If not, some kind of citizens/legal advice service?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 18, 2022)

sbarromuncher said:


> Presumably this would be something his legal team would be able to advise him on?



Not their job, but probably his only hope.



sbarromuncher said:


> If not, some kind of citizens/legal advice service?



Not while he's in jail, and not unless he tracks one down. His social worker that he will probably be assigned might be able to help steer him when he gets out. There's no standardized system for this, and most people don't know about them, so it would probably require some initiative from Chris.

It's not like the UK with Citizens' Advice (which while not a government program per se, is still basically a national institution).


----------



## AnOminous (Jul 18, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Not their job, but probably his only hope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He'd probably end up homeless before panicking hard enough to try to get help, by which time it will probably take months to get the ball rolling.  Remember how he stole from Barb because he couldn't stand the thought of sleeping in a van even one night?


----------



## FinnSven (Jul 19, 2022)

I raped a dog 2day said:


> Don’t worry.  I’m sure Ethan will do something ridiculous even without prodding by weens.


I hope he manages to get beaten up by Chris.


----------



## amateur professional lurk (Jul 27, 2022)

thank you for making this thread. i came back to the farms after months of hiatus for info on the upcoming hearing and this thread covered a lot of what i was looking for without having to sort through many threads of retards making retarded speculation.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 27, 2022)

amateur professional lurk said:


> thank you for making this thread. i came back to the farms after months of hiatus for info on the upcoming hearing and this thread covered a lot of what i was looking for without having to sort through many threads of retards making retarded speculation.



Thanks.

It's probably going to be obsolete next week, if not tomorrow, or at least need major updates. Probably want to keep it stickied for a while, if nothing else for a post at the top explaining the outcome (and any potential further legal ramifications).


----------



## AnOminous (Jul 27, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It's probably going to be obsolete next week, if not tomorrow, or at least need major updates. Probably want to keep it stickied for a while, if nothing else for a post at the top explaining the outcome (and any potential further legal ramifications).


Will we actually know what happened as soon as tomorrow if Chris doesn't immediately tweet or something the instant he gets out of jail?


----------



## Mudkipcorn (Jul 27, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> Will we actually know what happened as soon as tomorrow if Chris doesn't immediately tweet or something the instant he gets out of jail?


Surely there will be field agents and maybe even milk if Ethan Ralph or someone of similar intellectual powers goes to the courthouse. Even if Chris isn't released I would assume that anyone asking at the courthouse would at least be given some information about the day's proceedings (whether there was another continuance or a reschedule or whatever). But that might not be the case.


----------



## Norman B. Normal (Jul 27, 2022)

I and others have speculated that all these continuances have been engineered by Heilberg to ensure that Chris spends his year of confinement at the local jail instead of someplace worse. Would this be an ethical thing for a defense attorney to do? If Heilberg believes the prosecution has Chris dead to rights and he has no reasonable defense he can offer, I can see him determining that the best thing he can do for Chris is to keep him out of the state prison system. Then again, there's always a tiny possibility that Chris could have skated on a technicality, like an improperly obtained confession or an evidentiary screwup or something. Would it be ethical for an attorney to prolong his nutball client's pretrial confinement for the client's own good?


----------



## ScaliasGhost (Jul 27, 2022)

Norman B. Normal said:


> all these continuances have been engineered by Heilberg to ensure that Chris spends his year of confinement at the local jail instead of someplace worse.



Probably, but also in these cases the Prosecution is usually fine continuing, they have a ton of other shit to deal with too.




Norman B. Normal said:


> Would this be an ethical thing for a defense attorney to do?


If the client is okay with it, sure. Counsel would have to take the client's wishes into account, and explain asking for a continuance waives the right to a speedy trial, but again, this happens a lot. Especially if there is no chance of bail for whatever reason. It all counts as time served anyways.




Norman B. Normal said:


> Then again, there's always a tiny possibility that Chris could have skated on a technicality, like an improperly obtained confession or an evidentiary screwup or something


An improperly obtained confession is a constitutional violation, not a "technicality." (Not making a dig at you, it's a common usage of the word to the public, but just irks me when constitutional protections are called "technicalities"). Evidentiary screw ups could be either, depending on the circumstances. Chris's attorney would have definitely looked into both. And in general, it's really hard for a true "technicality" to impair the prosecution's case.


Norman B. Normal said:


> Would it be ethical for an attorney to prolong his nutball client's pretrial confinement for the client's own good?


Yes, especially here where additional mental health investigations may be beneficial to the ultimate defense strategy.


----------



## AnOminous (Jul 27, 2022)

Norman B. Normal said:


> I and others have speculated that all these continuances have been engineered by Heilberg to ensure that Chris spends his year of confinement at the local jail instead of someplace worse. Would this be an ethical thing for a defense attorney to do?


Yes, entirely.  It's his job to get the best outcome for his client and it breaks no laws to do so.  Failing to do so would be unethical.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 27, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> Will we actually know what happened as soon as tomorrow if Chris doesn't immediately tweet or something the instant he gets out of jail?



He might not get out that day, and if either the hearing is closed or for some reason nobody is there, we won't know at all. If he *is* getting out we might find out that there's another hearing on Friday or Monday, rather than just walking out the door tomorrow.



Norman B. Normal said:


> I and others have speculated that all these continuances have been engineered by Heilberg to ensure that Chris spends his year of confinement at the local jail instead of someplace worse.



He'd serve his sentence in that jail regardless. Misdemeanors are punished by jail time, not prison. Virginia code is very clear about that. Even if they stacked multiple consecutive sentences to over a year (something I've been trying to find information on at the district level in Virginia, but seems to be extremely rare), they would still all be spent in jail. 

Courts in Virginia at the district level cannot send you to prison.


----------



## Norman B. Normal (Jul 27, 2022)

ScaliasGhost said:


> An improperly obtained confession is a constitutional violation, not a "technicality." (Not making a dig at you, it's a common usage of the word to the public, but just irks me when constitutional protections are called "technicalities"). Evidentiary screw ups could be either, depending on the circumstances. Chris's attorney would have definitely looked into both. And in general, it's really hard for a true "technicality" to impair the prosecution's case.


Absolutely true, and I did think about that, before going with "technicality" for economy of expression. Thanks for making that clear.



AnOminous said:


> Yes, entirely.  It's his job to get the best outcome for his client and it breaks no laws to do so.  Failing to do so would be unethical.


My issue with this is that it's hard to imagine Chris agreeing to go along with it. Could Heilberg have concocted such a plan behind Chris's back?

_edit:_ Per @Pointless Sperg, Chris could not have been sentenced to pound-me-in-the-ass prison, so this is all mooted.


----------



## Mudkipcorn (Jul 27, 2022)

Chris' situation gives me a question about the US legal system. From what our valued lawfags have posted, I understand the situation. Chris will in all likelihood walk tomorrow or shortly thereafter because he will have served the maximum sentence given his charges. But does this require him to enter a guilty (or equivalent) plea? What if he refused to cooperate with that? Could they hold him longer or will he just be let go? If he doesn't cooperate but still is let go, on paper he served a year in jail without ever having been tried or convicted. Seems a bit wrong. He obviously is guilty but one could imagine other situations where someone innocent (or at least someone who isn't obviously guilty) serves a year, gets let out and has no recourse. Under other circumstances I know that people get bonded so there is no issue of incarceration without conviction, but it still seems odd to me. I guess the legal system could never be completely fair.


----------



## ScaliasGhost (Jul 27, 2022)

Norman B. Normal said:


> Could Heilberg have concocted such a plan behind Chris's back


No, he would need to consult with Chris and explain the options and trade offs or risks associated with any given course of action. When it comes to actual litigation tactics, like what specific questions to ask witnesses, attorneys have more leeway to disregard clients (since that is their profession and the whole reason they are appointed basically). General "strategy" stuff however, must be done in consultation with the client.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 27, 2022)

Mudkipcorn said:


> Chris' situation gives me a question about the US legal system. From what our valued lawfags have posted, I understand the situation. Chris will in all likelihood walk tomorrow or shortly thereafter because he will have served the maximum sentence given his charges. But does this require him to enter a guilty (or equivalent) plea? What if he refused to cooperate with that? Could they hold him longer or will he just be let go? If he doesn't cooperate but still is let go, on paper he served a year in jail without ever having been tried or convicted. Seems a bit wrong. He obviously is guilty but one could imagine other situations where someone innocent (or at least someone who isn't obviously guilty) serves a year, gets let out and has no recourse. Under other circumstances I know that people get bonded so there is no issue of incarceration without conviction, but it still seems odd to me. I guess the legal system could never be completely fair.



They could do two things to keep him in jail longer. They could stack additional charges (I really wish someone would've called the clerk to get at least that information), or they could indict him on a felony. They mentioned additional charges at his arrest but we have no idea if they ever followed through on that, or what those charges could be. 

I've mentioned before that there is a slim, unlikely possibility that Heilberg has been actively stalling an indictment, and that he could continue to stall it after a year, but that would be incredibly unusual. If that were the case, then Chris could remain in jail since it was the defense's doing. I can't find any information on that ever happening in Virginia, but it's certainly possible. 

Stalling a prelim for over a year in district court would really annoy the judge.


----------



## AnOminous (Jul 27, 2022)

Norman B. Normal said:


> My issue with this is that it's hard to imagine Chris agreeing to go along with it. Could Heilberg have concocted such a plan behind Chris's back?


_That_ would be unethical.  The client, the saying goes, is "the captain of the case."  The attorney is obligated to give sound legal advice, but cannot overrule the client's idiotic decisions, and must do what the client says unless that is illegal, against the rules (procedural or bar rules) or entirely unacceptable to counsel, who must in that case file to withdraw for cause.


Pointless Sperg said:


> Stalling a prelim for over a year in district court would really annoy the judge.


It also raises issues that are straight up jurisdictional, i.e. if the judge decides the court lacks further jurisdiction, the only thing to do is dismiss.


----------



## Pickle Inspector (Jul 27, 2022)

Norman B. Normal said:


> I and others have speculated that all these continuances have been engineered by Heilberg to ensure that Chris spends his year of confinement at the local jail instead of someplace worse. Would this be an ethical thing for a defense attorney to do? If Heilberg believes the prosecution has Chris dead to rights and he has no reasonable defense he can offer, I can see him determining that the best thing he can do for Chris is to keep him out of the state prison system.


While I agree it was likely so Chris would avoid federal prison maybe it could be because of all the covid related backlogs?

This kind of thing: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/14/san-francisco-jails-trial-delays-dates


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 27, 2022)

Pickle Inspector said:


> While I agree it was likely so Chris would avoid federal prison maybe it could be because of all the covid related backlogs?
> 
> This kind of thing: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/14/san-francisco-jails-trial-delays-dates



Chris hasn't committed any federal crimes (that the federal government cares about anyway), so there's zero chance of him going to federal prison. The only thing they could maybe go after him for is drawing on his tugboat on months where he made over the limit on ebay sales of his art (e.g. the Sonic Totem). 

Fucking Barb, even murdering her, in 14BC is not a federal crime.

It has nothing to do with COVID. Greene County is not a hotbed of criminal activity.


----------



## A Grey Cat (Jul 28, 2022)

Dear @Pointless Sperg Thank you for this faq and being helpful during this whole debacle. Your services are appreciated semper fi 
I wish i had a medal to pin on you.


----------



## Sissyagamben (Jul 28, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Stalling a prelim for over a year in district court would really annoy the judge.


do you think he could’ve stalled it to the maximum sentence served to minimize attention? after all, the kind of attention chris can attract could be rather, you know


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Sissyagamben said:


> do you think he could’ve stalled it to the maximum sentence served to minimize attention? after all, the kind of attention chris can attract could be rather, you know



Not really, Chris would've been in jail writing retarded Jesus letters either way. 

By "stalling", I mean stalling an indictment. A year is a really long delay for an indictment. We don't know if the prosecution even wanted an indictment, and it's quite possible they didn't, or were only keeping the option in their back pocket as leverage.

Taking a year to get a *verdict* isn't stalling. A year is a perfectly normal time for a non-trivial case.


----------



## Pyra (Jul 28, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> He'd probably end up homeless before panicking hard enough to try to get help, by which time it will probably take months to get the ball rolling.  Remember how he stole from Barb because he couldn't stand the thought of sleeping in a van even one night?


it's going to take months for him to get any kind of help anyways. His SSA benefits got cut off from him going to jail, so now he has to reapply. It's going to take at least 6 months, if not longer to get those reinstated. 

So he effectively has no money unless he was still getting any kind of patreon payments, etc. while in jail.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Pyra said:


> it's going to take months for him to get any kind of help anyways. His SSA benefits got cut off from him going to jail, so now he has to reapply.



Do you have any proof of this? (Though his benefits should have been cut off after 30 days in the state hospital.)


----------



## Pyra (Jul 28, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Do you have any proof of this? (Though his benefits should have been cut off after 30 days in the state hospital.)


it's literally on their website, though I _was_ under the impression it was less than a year before you had to file a new application. He still has one day, *maybe two* (assuming he does actually get out today) before they'll make him file an entire new application. 

In terms of the timeline for applications, without going into too much, i do kind of have my hands in this realm between my own personal family as well as employment.

SSA Prisoner information


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Pyra said:


> it's literally on their website, though I _was_ under the impression it was less than a year before you had to file a new application. He still has one day, *maybe two* (assuming he does actually get out today) before they'll make him file an entire new application.
> 
> In terms of the timeline for applications, without going into too much, i do kind of have my hands in this realm between my own personal family as well as employment.
> 
> SSA Prisoner information



Please read the FAQ at the beginning of this thread, and it's even in that pamphlet you linked to. You lose benefits *after you have been convicted* and spend 30 days incarcerated. Chris has not been convicted yet this entire year. 

After a year's suspension, SSI requires reapplication. Chris has SSDI, which does not require reapplication.  

I'll copy and paste (again) the relevant procedures from the SSA's operations manual for its employees:

Regarding while being in jail waiting for trial (no suspension):
 SSA - POMS: GN 02607.200 - Special Legal Considerations For Prisoner Suspensions ​
Regarding while in state hospital while incompetent to stand trial (suspension):

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202607330

Regarding reinstating benefits after being released from the state hospital and sent back to jail, but before being convicted (suspension ends):

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202607852


----------



## Stupidface (Jul 28, 2022)

My heart goes out to you for the inevitable barrage of grand jury questions incoming. Good luck with any upcoming FAQ updates.


----------



## 90theguy (Jul 28, 2022)

How long will the Grand jury trial likely last?


----------



## dankeybong (Jul 28, 2022)

I heard this is going to a grand jury. Does that mean Chris is getting the death penalty?


----------



## Sissyagamben (Jul 28, 2022)

dankeybong said:


> I heard this is going to a grand jury. Does that mean Chris is getting the death penalty?


Grand jury only decide whether to indict, it’s not the jury of your peers at trial who’ll decide whether guilty or not. The sentencing will also be in the discretion of the judge


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

If it's going to a grand jury, that means Chris is about to be charged with a felony.

It does not mean he is going to trial -- that's a TRIAL jury. It just means that they're going to indict him on a felony and send him to Circuit Court.


----------



## Norman B. Normal (Jul 28, 2022)

If the grand jury does not indict Chris before his year is up for the misdemeanor charge, will he be released temporarily?


----------



## Nicest Person on a Honda (Jul 28, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> If it's going to a grand jury, that means Chris is about to be charged with a felony.


Please correct me if I am wrong, but I read that Virginia has misdemeanor grand juries. They are extremely rare, but they do exist. Is it possible (not likely, but possible) that Chris could be facing multiple misdemeanors at a grand jury?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Nicest Person on a Honda said:


> Please correct me if I am wrong, but I read that Virginia has misdemeanor grand juries. They are extremely rare, but they do exist. Is it possible (not likely, but possible) that Chris could be facing multiple misdemeanors at a grand jury?



You *could* go to a grand jury for a misdemeanor charge but there'd be no point as their approval is not needed to charge someone for a misdemeanor.

I'm not an expert on Virginia but the process should be the same. It would be dumb to make the jury consider every small violation, it would be way too big a workload.

They have plenty of felonies to sift through and approve as it is. Since most crimes are misdemeanor, they'd have to work the grand jury much, much longer, or form more grand juries. The courts would grind to a halt.


----------



## Spergichu (Jul 28, 2022)

When will we know the specific felony(ies) Chris could be charged with?


----------



## FinnSven (Jul 28, 2022)

It’s clear that the GRAND jury will most likely consider this a felony and it will go to trial. 
It could be pled out, sure, but the likelihood is that Chris will drive it one way or the other to trial. 

Will Chris be able to request a TRIAL jury in this case, or is it not up to him?


----------



## AnOminous (Jul 28, 2022)

Stupidface said:


> My heart goes out to you for the inevitable barrage of grand jury questions incoming. Good luck with any upcoming FAQ updates.


Preemptive answer to any question about grand juries:  they return a true bill every time.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Spergichu said:


> When will we know the specific felony(ies) Chris could be charged with?



As soon as the indictment is returned from the grand jury. He'll appear on a public docket for Greene County Circuit Court, and it will show us the exact charges. This can be viewed on the Virginia courts website.



FinnSven said:


> It’s clear that the GRAND jury will most likely consider this a felony and it will go to trial.
> It could be pled out, sure, but the likelihood is that Chris will drive it one way or the other to trial.
> 
> Will Chris be able to request a TRIAL jury in this case, or is it not up to him?



Chris is guaranteed the right to a jury trial, if it goes to trial. He can also request a bench trial. Also he can request jury trial but bench sentencing (you used to not be able to do this in Virginia, but as I understand it, you can now).


----------



## Breadbear (Jul 28, 2022)

How do we know this is going to grand jury?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Breadbear said:


> How do we know this is going to grand jury?



Someone posted a recording that sounds pretty authentic. I mean it could all be bullshit, but I find it credible. 

We'll know for certain if it appears in the public record.


----------



## themarchivist2 (Jul 28, 2022)

If this _does_ go to trial, who in Christory would actually be most likely to be subpoenaed?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

themarchivist2 said:


> If this _does_ go to trial, who in Christory would actually be most likely to be subpoenaed?



Barb, obviously. Anyone who was there during the wellness check. Anyone who examined any forensic evidence. Any doctors who evaluated Barb. Any doctors who evaluated Chris. (Sometimes they don't bother with a subpoena with people who will obviously be there willingly, but they usually do it as a formality, since then your boss has to give you the time off from work without firing you, etc.)

Anyone who was involved with any evidence that they use. For instance, if they use the Bella call in court, they will subpoena Bella to testify as to the authenticity of the call. She'd probably enjoy the fuck out of that.

If they want to use any of the email or text confessions, then anyone who received that email or text. It will only be people who still have the original email still in their inbox, or the text still on their phones. I imagine they will mostly not bother with this, using only one or two at maximum, as proving the authenticity of these things is a pain in the ass.

Again, Chris' confessions aren't for proving that he DID it. They're for proving that HE did it. They still have to prove that it actually happened, and that will be the meat of the evidence. In many cases, the hard part is proving who did it, since there's ample evidence that the crime happened (a body with multiple stab wounds, for instance)

In this case proving that _Chris _did it is the easy part.  The hard part is proving that it happened at all.

EDIT: Plus for the email/texts they will subpoena for his email account for sent mail. Since they have his phone, they will verify any confessions he sent on that -- those would be the most damning.


----------



## Chazzed Up (Jul 28, 2022)

I have a very simple question. How much longer is Chris allowed to be confined given this latest development? Does it allow for him to be held longer? I'm assuming he isn't allowed to not be in jail while he awaits trial. Do they legally have a timeframe they need to finish this up by versus the year of continuances where nothing much happened?


----------



## DDBCAE CBAADCBE (Jul 28, 2022)

What would it take to legally and irreversibly change Chris’ name to Ian Brandon Anderson without his consent?


----------



## PsychoNerd054 (Jul 28, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> EDIT: Plus for the email/texts they will subpoena for his email account for sent mail. Since they have his phone, they will verify any confessions he sent on that -- those would be the most damning.


So pretty much everyone that contacted Chris by that point will have some 'splaining to do. Sounds like a mega infodump, to me.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 28, 2022)

Chazzed Up said:


> I have a very simple question. How much longer is Chris allowed to be confined given this latest development? Does it allow for him to be held longer? I'm assuming he isn't allowed to not be in jail while he awaits trial. Do they legally have a timeframe they need to finish this up by versus the year of continuances where nothing much happened?



For now? Until the grand jury reviews it. If by some miracle they say no, then he gets released. So basically a week and a half.

Once he's indicted, they can keep him as long as it takes for a verdict and sentencing. Theoretically at least ten years, but it will be resolved long before then. If they tried to put off the trial for that long, eventually a judge would say "No, we're going to trial now, or we're letting him go."



PsychoNerd054 said:


> So pretty much everyone that contacted Chris by that point will have some 'splaining to do. Sounds like a mega infodump, to me.



No. Pretty much everyone is fine. They'd just pick one or two examples that were most damning for Chris. 

And this is assuming it even goes to trial, which is unlikely.


----------



## ScaliasGhost (Jul 28, 2022)

PsychoNerd054 said:


> So pretty much everyone that contacted Chris by that point will have some 'splaining to


Really, at most they would likely just be verifying the contents of text messages or audio recordings are true. True in the sense that they understood they were talking with Chris and had the discussion in question and the evidence reflects that conversation accurately. All the damning stuff is from Chris himself. They aren't on trial, Chris is.


----------



## A New Kiwi (Jul 29, 2022)

If you think it's unlikely that this will end up going to trial, then what do you think is going to happen? Things will end without Chris serving a long prison sentence?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 29, 2022)

A New Kiwi said:


> If you think it's unlikely that this will end up going to trial, then what do you think is going to happen? Things will end without Chris serving a long prison sentence?



Nobody knows, it's just that normally either the evidence is bad, in which case the case is dropped, or the evidence is good and it's in the best interests of the defendant to take the best deal they can get, rather than go to trial where they will get something worse. 

Trials are a final resort when either party is unwilling to budge for whatever reason. Usually people who have nothing to lose (serial killers, people who raped toddlers, etc.), or when the prosecutor feels like he has to grandstand. While Chris might, given the right prosecutor, be a candidate for this, we haven't seen an indication of this here. (Prosecution has intentionally kept the case low-visibility, rather than giving updates about it).

The other type of person who gets close to or actually does go to trial is a retard who won't listen to the advice of his attorney. Chris definitely qualifies here, but Chris also usually relents eventually. 

This could end with Chris not going to prison at all, or with Chris spending years in prison. We're just not sure. We *will* learn a lot more once it gets to circuit court. Hang tight, we'll know what the charges are in a couple of weeks, maybe sooner.


----------



## Plague Dog (Jul 29, 2022)

@Pointless Sperg First, thank you for the post, it's incredibly helpful! May I make a small request? Would you mind including the latest update date next to the version number in your faq when/if you update it again? I would find that extremely helpful with the progression of chris's legal proceedings, but I'm not a mod or anything so feel free to disregard.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 29, 2022)

Plague Dog said:


> @Pointless Sperg First, thank you for the post, it's incredibly helpful! May I make a small request? Would you mind including the latest update date next to the version number in your faq when/if you update it again? I would find that extremely helpful with the progression of chris's legal proceedings, but I'm not a mod or anything so feel free to disregard.



Good idea, noted.


----------



## Philosophy Phil (Jul 30, 2022)

What are the implications of the latest bribe letters and trying to orchestrate third party persons to harass/influence the victim?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 30, 2022)

Philosophy Phil said:


> What are the implications of the latest bribe letters and trying to orchestrate third party persons to harass/influence the victim?



I'm still catching up on stuff, but if he isn't trying to influence things directly (i.e. either directly contacting Barb, or getting other people to contact her on his behalf), not really.

Attempting to raise money to buy out the house is not harassing her, and even if he could raise the money in some retarded motherfucker CPU goddess universe, he couldn't actually execute on his plans without her consent.


----------



## Hepativore (Jul 30, 2022)

Does anybody have any idea what level of prison Chris would be going to if he does get prison time? Is something like a medium security prison out of the question? He is not a hardened criminal, but he can throw violent temper tantrums.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Jul 30, 2022)

Hepativore said:


> Does anybody have any idea what level of prison Chris would be going to if he does get prison time? Is something like a medium security prison out of the question? He is not a hardened criminal, but he can throw violent temper tantrums.



That would have to be answered by someone more familiar with the Virginia penal system. In general, though, I expect he'll be placed somewhere with enough security to ensure his safety but not so much that it's meant to house violent murderers. 

He's not going to Red Onion (Farms) State Prison.


----------



## Homofascism (Jul 30, 2022)

themarchivist2 said:


> If this _does_ go to trial, who in Christory would actually be most likely to be subpoenaed?


The only one I reckon who is a strong contender is Bella. She’s on the record talking to Chris about fucking Barb so they might ask her to testify. The thought of her telling her glowie dad she has to testify in an incest case is hilarious.


----------



## Vinluv Handesbukia (Jul 31, 2022)

POV: you’re Chris Duckworth and the cancer patient you’re treating is a ween asking you about the trial.


----------



## A Grey Cat (Jul 31, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> For now? Until the grand jury reviews it. If by some miracle they say no, then he gets released. So basically a week and a half.
> 
> Once he's indicted, they can keep him as long as it takes for a verdict and sentencing. Theoretically at least ten years, but it will be resolved long before then. If they tried to put off the trial for that long, eventually a judge would say "No, we're going to trial now, or we're letting him go."


I think either way it'll be a week and a half, maybe slightly longer by like a day or two. Either because by said miracle (here's hoping god forgives the retarded for heresy) they vote no (most likely it'll be a 40 foot pole type thing where they won't want to even touch this one) or if they vote yes the judge and prosecution already know exactly what they wanna do with Chris. It wouldn't surprise me if they have a sentence already to go. It just requires the jury's vote. It's been a year and Chris has been a burden on the system. They don't want him to be a burden on them anymore, but at the same time can't just shrug and handle him with kid gloves this time.


----------



## Monuklear (Aug 3, 2022)

Just wanted to say thank you for the extremely informative thread


----------



## prolapsed_cranium (Aug 3, 2022)

Hepativore said:


> Does anybody have any idea what level of prison Chris would be going to if he does get prison time? Is something like a medium security prison out of the question? He is not a hardened criminal, but he can throw violent temper tantrums.


Prison systems do evaluations and classifications of new inmates. They go through physical health, mental health, criminal history, gang affiliation, convicted offense, etc. in order to make the proper placements and keep the overall system stable.

He'll be in a farily stable situation, and not paying rent on a tier somewhere in the Virginia DOC. And we won't see drawings of Sonichu with a Reichsadler blasted across his chest and singing "Erika"


----------



## Whaler (Aug 3, 2022)

prolapsed_cranium said:


> Prison systems do evaluations and classifications of new inmates. They go through physical health, mental health, criminal history, gang affiliation, convicted offense, etc. in order to make the proper placements and keep the overall system stable.
> 
> He'll be in a farily stable situation, and not paying rent on a tier somewhere in the Virginia DOC. And we won't see drawings of Sonichu with a Reichsadler blasted across his chest and singing "Erika"


To explain this process better, it's called intake.  While the routines and procedures are different between state, the process is basically all the same.  You'll be explained the rules and procedures, these will include things like health checks, safety checks, room checks.  What your visitation rights are, and how the commissary works.  They'll also explain what items you're allowed to receive from people on the outside.  After this, staff will begin doing routine tests for medical reasons, these are both physical and mental, so that inmates can have their medical needs met.  After all this is said and done, you'll be led to your new room in the prison depending on where staff feels you'll best be suited so you don't end up being shanked during meal time or a shower.  This whole process could take hours or days, depending on the inmate, before they are fully incorporated in the system.

In my opinion, and I can't stress this enough, Chris will probably end up in the low security range, but that doesn't mean he will stay there.  Actions have consequences even in prison, and that could and can result in you being moved to a higher or lower level.


----------



## Bent_Duck (Aug 3, 2022)

dankeybong said:


> I heard this is going to a grand jury. Does that mean Chris is getting the death penalty?



Yes.


----------



## Ken_Penders69 (Aug 4, 2022)

What's with chris' protective custody situation.  What I mean is if chris goes to prison I understand he wouldn't be allowed in with the general population.  He'd be with other sex offenders.  But I was also told protective custody is supposed to be temporary and not indefinite.  If chris has autism can they extend his protective custody forever? They seem to have given him infinite protective custody in jail but I wager that changes once he's in prison.


----------



## Whaler (Aug 4, 2022)

Ken_Penders69 said:


> What's with chris' protective custody situation.  What I mean is if chris goes to prison I understand he wouldn't be allowed in with the general population.  He'd be with other sex offenders.  But I was also told protective custody is supposed to be temporary and not indefinite.  If chris has autism can they extend his protective custody forever? They seem to have given him infinite protective custody in jail but I wager that changes once he's in prison.


They'll keep him in protective custody for as long as they need to.  It's not some kind of special treatment, it's a place where prisoners who could be attacked, killed, or rape go.  We're talking like gang members, child rapist, even police officers.  Since Chris doesn't care whatsoever for the wellbeing or sanity of others, only himself, he would absolutely be at the end of an assault with the stupid shit that comes out of his mouth, or the literal shit he does and doesn't bother to clean up because of his fecal incontinence.


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 4, 2022)

Whaler said:


> They'll keep him in protective custody for as long as they need to.  It's not some kind of special treatment, it's a place where prisoners who could be attacked, killed, or rape go.  We're talking like gang members, child rapist, even police officers.  Since Chris doesn't care whatsoever for the wellbeing or sanity of others, only himself, he would absolutely be at the end of an assault with the stupid shit that comes out of his mouth, or the literal shit he does and doesn't bother to clean up because of his fecal incontinence.


One thing prison YouTuber Larry Lawton points out is the cause of ass kickings in prison (and the main cause he delivered one himself) is bad hygiene.  If he is in a cell with someone and he tries using up more than his fair share of space, leaves things filthy, or just gets smelly from not showering, he'll get his ass kicked.

Someone might let it slide once but the second time he's getting a beatdown.

They'll probably tell pretty early on that he's a soft bitch who would be in danger, though, assuming they don't already have it in his file.


----------



## troon patrol (Aug 4, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> One thing prison YouTuber Larry Lawton points out is the cause of ass kickings in prison (and the main cause he delivered one himself) is bad hygiene.  If he is in a cell with someone and he tries using up more than his fair share of space, leaves things filthy, or just gets smelly from not showering, he'll get his ass kicked.
> 
> Someone might let it slide once but the second time he's getting a beatdown.
> 
> They'll probably tell pretty early on that he's a soft bitch who would be in danger, though, assuming they don't already have it in his file.


I knew a guy who did a few years federal, real big guy, 6'5" if I recall correctly.  They put him in a cell with a couple of Somalis or Nigerians or some sub-saharan nations, anyway they stunk. They stunk so bad other innmates outside his cell told him he had to regulate them as he was the person who could get to them the easiest.


----------



## Whaler (Aug 4, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> One thing prison YouTuber Larry Lawton points out is the cause of ass kickings in prison (and the main cause he delivered one himself) is bad hygiene.  If he is in a cell with someone and he tries using up more than his fair share of space, leaves things filthy, or just gets smelly from not showering, he'll get his ass kicked.
> 
> Someone might let it slide once but the second time he's getting a beatdown.
> 
> They'll probably tell pretty early on that he's a soft bitch who would be in danger, though, assuming they don't already have it in his file.


Two of the worse things you can be in prison/jail.  Smelly and/or loud, and there isn't enough chocolate in Brussels to save you if you're both.  I've never been in the system, but I work with it.  One of the unwritten rules is basically, if you don't wash up, or forget to wash up, your fellow inmates will "help" remind you to keep up with it.  Nobody wants to be stuck in a room with somebody who's foul smelling, and you'd be surprised at how fast a shank can be made out of a tooth brush and battery.


----------



## Ken_Penders69 (Aug 5, 2022)

I guess I'm also curious what happens when chris inevitably gets out either by reduced time via a plea deal or after his max sentencing.  I'm gunna assuming he can't come up with barbs 150,000.00 "blackmail" money.  Would chris go to a half way house, a ward of the state program? Or is he just straight up homeless


----------



## Ophelia (Aug 6, 2022)

Ken_Penders69 said:


> I guess I'm also curious what happens when chris inevitably gets out either by reduced time via a plea deal or after his max sentencing.  I'm gunna assuming he can't come up with barbs 150,000.00 "blackmail" money.  Would chris go to a half way house, a ward of the state program? Or is he just straight up homeless


----------



## Ken_Penders69 (Aug 6, 2022)

Ophelia said:


>


, the irony rob bell might save chris in the end after all lol.  although knowing the autistic man child my money is on chris doing something stupid and getting kicked out of his program.


----------



## Hepativore (Aug 6, 2022)

How much information is going to be available after the 8th? I have heard from some people that the details of the Grand Jury proceedings might be closed until the end of the court case because they might be used for further investigation.

What can and cannot be released in this instance?


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 6, 2022)

Hepativore said:


> How much information is going to be available after the 8th? I have heard from some people that the details of the Grand Jury proceedings might be closed until the end of the court case because they might be used for further investigation.
> 
> What can and cannot be released in this instance?


The website should in a fairly timely fashion reflect whether or not a true bill issued, if previous Term Days (when the Grand Jury meets which in Greene is the second Monday of every even-numbered month) are any indication, and the publicly available online docket will be marginally more informative.  Someone may still have to physically go down to the clerk's office and access/purchase the actual documents at the public terminal, and some material of a sensitive nature (relating to the specific details of the rape) may be sealed.

Local newspapers seem to report some Grand Jury cases, but sometimes rather late, as in over a week afterwards, so that's another option.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 7, 2022)

Hepativore said:


> How much information is going to be available after the 8th? I have heard from some people that the details of the Grand Jury proceedings might be closed until the end of the court case because they might be used for further investigation.
> 
> What can and cannot be released in this instance?



We'll get the true bill, but the discussion and the evidence presented will be sealed. In other words we won't get much info other than the date of the next hearing and any (unlikely) modifications to the charges. 

Since most of the work has been done already, the next hearing date after the indictment is issued should be the one where a trial date is set. If there's going to be a plea deal, it will probably happen then. Of course, knowing that Chris is exceptional, there could be all manner of fuckery in the process. 

Were this a normal case though, basically after the grand jury is done, there will be one more preliminary hearing, and then a trial after that.


----------



## UncleTusky (Aug 7, 2022)

In Chris' most recent letter from jail he claims that Heilberg is frustrated that Region 10/Therapeutic Docket (a court diversion program for mentally ill inmates) is not doing more to help. So my questions are:

* Can Therapeutic Docket intervene on a defendant's behalf before s/he is sentenced?
* If it _can _intervene on Chris' behalf, why isn't it doing anything now? He may not be eligible for an insanity defense but he's still too loopy to function.
* What psych services will Chris get if he is not referred to Therapeutic Docket? Again, without some kind of intensive therapy he'll be non functional when he's released.


----------



## Lorne Armstrong (Aug 7, 2022)

UncleTusky said:


> In Chris' most recent letter from jail he claims that Heilberg is frustrated that Region 10/Therapeutic Docket (a court diversion program for mentally ill inmates) is not doing more to help. So my questions are:
> 
> * Can Therapeutic Docket intervene on a defendant's behalf before s/he is sentenced?
> * If it _can _intervene on Chris' behalf, why isn't it doing anything now? He may not be eligible for an insanity defense but he's still too loopy to function.
> * What psych services will Chris get if he is not referred to Therapeutic Docket? Again, without some kind of intensive therapy he'll be non functional when he's released.








						Therapeutic Docket - CWCki
					






					sonichu.com


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 7, 2022)

UncleTusky said:


> In Chris' most recent letter from jail he claims that Heilberg is frustrated that Region 10/Therapeutic Docket (a court diversion program for mentally ill inmates) is not doing more to help. So my questions are:


I seriously doubt they'll give it to him as he's already had it and instead of it working he went on to become a motherfucking rapist.  Also if you search for it they have a critical worker shortage and some of their operations are basically shut down.  I'm just going to take a wild guess that Chris somehow retardedly thinks raping his mom qualifies for a cush sentence like being given free movie tickets and Heilberg has said nope, that shit ain't happening this time.


----------



## Whaler (Aug 7, 2022)

UncleTusky said:


> In Chris' most recent letter from jail he claims that Heilberg is frustrated that Region 10/Therapeutic Docket (a court diversion program for mentally ill inmates) is not doing more to help. So my questions are:
> 
> * Can Therapeutic Docket intervene on a defendant's behalf before s/he is sentenced?
> * If it _can _intervene on Chris' behalf, why isn't it doing anything now? He may not be eligible for an insanity defense but he's still too loopy to function.
> * What psych services will Chris get if he is not referred to Therapeutic Docket? Again, without some kind of intensive therapy he'll be non functional when he's released.


Two key parts to the Therapeutic docket are "prior record" and "nature of the crime."  Chris has already been saved by the Docket once before (it was implemented a month before his case, lucky him) and from the sounds of time at WSH, they probably deemed him better in jail/prison than being out in the public.  Remember, when his bail was being set, the judge deemed him a public nuisance.  Chris has apparently lost all good will from the Court system in Virginia.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 7, 2022)

Added some quick notes to the top of the FAQ to tide it over for a few days, since I don't want to put in the effort to change out the whole thing until we get more information, as the situation won't be stabilized for a little bit.


----------



## Ophelia (Aug 7, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Added some quick notes to the top of the FAQ to tide it over for a few days, since I don't want to put in the effort to change out the whole thing until we get more information, as the situation won't be stabilized for a little bit.


Perhaps add a note about the “Is Heilberg quitting?” speculation? Too many people think it’s a fact.


----------



## Fiwi Karmer 69420 (Aug 7, 2022)

Is it possible that the letters chris has been sending can be admitted as evidence? Some of the stuff he's been writing recently has made things seem pretty open and shut.


----------



## troon patrol (Aug 7, 2022)

Fiwi Karmer 69420 said:


> Is it possible that the letters chris has been sending can be admitted as evidence? Some of the stuff he's been writing recently has made things seem pretty open and shut.


I wanna say yes, definitely. In some jails they actually have warnings that calls are recorded for evidence purposes, theres no such thing as 4th amendment violation from a 3rd party, if Kengle is posting Chris' shit he might be burning him.


----------



## Fiwi Karmer 69420 (Aug 7, 2022)

troon patrol said:


> I wanna say yes, definitely. In some jails they actually have warnings that calls are recorded for evidence purposes, theres no such thing as 4th amendment violation from a 3rd party, if Kengle is posting Chris' shit he might be burning him.


tomorrow could be very interesting then


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 7, 2022)

Fiwi Karmer 69420 said:


> tomorrow could be very interesting then


They are not going to have time to get into nonsense like that.  They will present the absolute minimum quantum of evidence sufficient for the grand jury to return a true bill.


----------



## Whaler (Aug 7, 2022)

Fiwi Karmer 69420 said:


> tomorrow could be very interesting then


It's a Grand Jury indictment, the prosecutor will lay out the framework of the evidence they have and if they (the jury) determines that, yes, the groundwork has been laid out, it'll go to court where the actual trial and all evidence will introduced.  That's when things will get interesting.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 7, 2022)

Fiwi Karmer 69420 said:


> Is it possible that the letters chris has been sending can be admitted as evidence? Some of the stuff he's been writing recently has made things seem pretty open and shut.



Yes, but no. Since the contents were never examined by the jail, the people who received them would pretty much have to be there to testify that it was in fact a letter they received in the mail from Chris.

And as I've answered before, there's really no point. There's zero doubt that -- if the crime occurred -- that Chris is the culprit. That's the easy part. The hard(ish) part is proving that the crime happened at all and it's not just Chris making it up, and no confessions from Chris, no matter how detailed, are proof of that in and of themselves.

Once there's proof that the crime occurred, it can be shown that Chris was the only one in a position to do it, and just one single confession (whichever is the most damning and/or easiest to verify) is all that they need. They don't need to go into ridiculous detail about what "soul bonding" is when they have Chris flat out saying "I had sex with Barb because I was horny."

Also any letter where he doesn't describe committing the crime is completely irrelevant. As odious as Chris' recent attitude toward Barb is, it's unrelated to anything that might have happened at the time of the crime.  This is not evidence at all.

The only way they would come into play is after a trial has concluded, at sentencing when they discuss the merits of attempting to redeem Chris, and how harshly he should be punished. (For instance to demonstrate that he has no remorse.)

EDIT: And if there's a plea bargain, then the prosecution will not bother presenting character evidence at sentencing since the sentence is already agreed upon and they're not asking the judge to make it any harsher.


----------



## Ophelia (Aug 7, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Yes, but no. Since the contents were never examined by the jail, the people who received them would pretty much have to be there to testify that it was in fact a letter they received in the mail from Chris.
> 
> And as I've answered before, there's really no point. There's zero doubt that -- if the crime occurred -- that Chris is the culprit. That's the easy part. The hard(ish) part is proving that the crime happened at all and it's not just Chris making it up, and no confessions from Chris, no matter how detailed, are proof of that in and of themselves.
> 
> ...


This info should be in the FAQ. I’m so tired of people cheering that Chris has fucked himself at trial and Heilberg must be begging him to stop writing.


----------



## PsychoNerd054 (Aug 7, 2022)

Ophelia said:


> This info should be in the FAQ. I’m so tired of people cheering that Chris has fucked himself at trial and Heilberg must be begging him to stop writing.


Nothing in these letters even implies that Heilberg was cutting ties with Chris, or that he was begging him to stop writing shit, the recent letter only says that he "hasn't reached out to him much",


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 8, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Yes, but no. Since the contents were never examined by the jail, the people who received them would pretty much have to be there to testify that it was in fact a letter they received in the mail from Chris.


Beyond the logistics of establishing a foundation for admission, Virginia, like nearly everywhere else, has a best evidence rule which more or less requires the original if it is in existence and available.  A lot of this stuff not only has no chain of custody worth a damn, but has been folded, spindled, mutilated, etc. by a series of autists.

To get anything less admitted, you need a reason for not having it available and a solid who what when where why as to what the document even is and why it should be considered authentic.

There are uniform laws for the interstate enforcements of subpoenas (and Virginia and Rhode Island both have enacted them), so it is possible, but it requires a fairly complex procedure, involving the requesting court filing a request to a court with personal jurisdiction over the third party, which then issues a subpoena against that party, which is as valid as if issued in a domestic case.

And all this to get some idiot like Kengle to authenticate a bunch of crazy blathering, much of which is inadmissible character evidence anyway.

Once you get past all that there's the question of whether it's more prejudicial than probative so even if all of the above is achieved, it could still be excluded anyway.

And the only thing that really jumped out as particularly useful was the recent admission of mental state, i.e. his knowledge of Barb's cognitive decline, which would generally be relevant only to a rape or other act where lack of consent is an issue.

Other than that, it would just be a lot of work to get cumulative evidence that Chris did in fact have sex with Barb and we wouldn't even be in front of a grand jury if they didn't have enough to be confident they can prove that.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 8, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> Once you get past all that there's the question of whether it's more prejudicial than probative so even if all of the above is achieved, it could still be excluded anyway.



Exactly. Most/all of them are just Chris effectively confessing to being a dipshit, not confessing to fucking Barb. They'd probably try to include the earlier "soul bonding" ones if that was *all they had* in terms of fingering Chris, but they wouldn't really need it since Chris was the only other person in the house. 

Though it would be amusing to see Heilberg mount a last ditch "unknown rapist broke into the house, took Chris' semen from the fridge, and smeared it on Barb to throw off the trail" defense.


----------



## Fiwi Karmer 69420 (Aug 8, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Yes, but no. Since the contents were never examined by the jail, the people who received them would pretty much have to be there to testify that it was in fact a letter they received in the mail from Chris.
> 
> And as I've answered before, there's really no point. There's zero doubt that -- if the crime occurred -- that Chris is the culprit. That's the easy part. The hard(ish) part is proving that the crime happened at all and it's not just Chris making it up, and no confessions from Chris, no matter how detailed, are proof of that in and of themselves.
> 
> ...


ah, I see, I just figured that since it was basically confessions and stuff they'd try to throw it in somewhere


----------



## purpleflurp (Aug 8, 2022)

PsychoNerd054 said:


> Nothing in these letters even implies that Heilberg was cutting ties with Chris, or that he was begging him to stop writing shit, the recent letter only says that he "hasn't reached out to him much",


We also don't know what Chris' definition of that is. It could be that Heilberg is only in contact once a month or every couple weeks, or Chris could just be sperging that Heilberg has other clients and isn't in the jail 9-5 every day.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 8, 2022)

Fiwi Karmer 69420 said:


> ah, I see, I just figured that since it was basically confessions and stuff they'd try to throw it in somewhere



They can't just throw the letters in as evidence. Every piece of evidence must have foundation established, for relevance, reliability, and authenticity. Most of these letters would fail the relevance test, and authenticating all the letters with all of the recipients would be a *lot* of extra work that is not necessary to obtain a conviction. Arguing reliability (it's Chris) would also take up time.

In absolute priority cases where the state is willing to go nuclear and throw all its resources at it (say, a terrorism case, or a serial killer), they'll go and build foundation for absolutely every scrap of evidence they can. This is not such a case, and they won't bother with crap that will likely just get shot down.


----------



## themarchivist2 (Aug 8, 2022)

Are pre-trials public or closed?


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 8, 2022)

themarchivist2 said:


> Are pre-trials public or closed?



For incest, closed, unless for some reason the court, the prosecution, and the defense all agree that it should be open -- § 18.2-67.8. Given that they've kept it closed in J&DR, I assume they'll still keep it closed. This is to prevent the public from seeing evidence that winds up not being needed at trial.

If/when it goes to trial, it will be open. Some other procedural hearings *might* be open if for some reason they're not discussing evidence, or information protected by HIPAA.

If any past sexual conduct of Barb's (either with others or with Chris) is presented in an evidentiary hearing, it *must* be closed -- § 18.2-67.7(C)


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 8, 2022)

Pointless Sperg said:


> Given that they've kept it closed in J&DR, I assume they'll still keep it closed.


It's pretty standard to do that in any family court with sensitive material.  Circuit Court is a court of record and the default is public access.


Pointless Sperg said:


> For incest, closed, unless for some reason the court, the prosecution, and the defense all agree that it should be open -- § 18.2-67.8. Given that they've kept it closed in J&DR, I assume they'll still keep it closed. This is to prevent the public from seeing evidence that winds up not being needed at trial.
> 
> If/when it goes to trial, it will be open. Some other procedural hearings *might* be open if for some reason they're not discussing evidence, or information protected by HIPAA.
> 
> If any past sexual conduct of Barb's (either with others or with Chris) is presented in an evidentiary hearing, it *must* be closed -- § 18.2-67.7(C)


Those seem to be permissive rules rather than mandatory.  I don't see why it's necessary that what happened in J&DR (not a court of record) would be the same in a court of record.  It also opens describing what it's talking about:

"A. In a criminal case in which the defendant is accused of a felony sexual offense involving a child victim, evidence of the defendant's conviction of another sexual offense or offenses is admissible and may be considered for its bearing on any matter to which it is relevant."

Chris isn't accused of any previous convictions of felony sexual offenses involving children, nor is this such a case.  And Barb isn't a defendant.

Then it goes on to specify that this pertains solely to the defendant's priors (of which Chris has none):

"B. The Commonwealth shall provide to the defendant 14 days prior to trial notice of its intention to introduce copies of final orders evidencing the defendant's qualifying prior criminal convictions. Such notice shall include (i) the date of each prior conviction, (ii) the name and jurisdiction of the court where each prior conviction was obtained, and (iii) each offense of which the defendant was convicted. Prior to commencement of the trial, the Commonwealth shall provide to the defendant photocopies of certified copies of the final orders that it intends to introduce."

How would it apply to anything related to Barb?

They'll probably seal the gory details if the Commonwealth moves for it, but not pursuant to this particular statute.


----------



## Ken_Penders69 (Aug 8, 2022)

Assuming chris plead not guilty on July 28th is chris able to retroactively change to a guilty plea on today's August 8th hearing or during future appearances?


----------



## Ass Johnson (Aug 8, 2022)

Ken_Penders69 said:


> Assuming chris plead not guilty on July 28th is chris able to retroactively change to a guilty plea on today's August 8th hearing or during future appearances?


Today is just a grand jury hearing. Chris won't be present, neither will Heilberg. This is solely for the Commonwealth to stamp the charges.

He can plead guilty/nolo at any time before a jury verdict.


----------



## brahsparagus (Aug 8, 2022)

Hypothetically speaking, how could we get this televised like the OJ trial?
`Retroactive edit: by 'televised' I of course mean 'recorded in high quality and broadcast on the internet'`
I assume that the following need to hold:

The trial allows public access
There needs to be enough demand from the viewing public to make it worthwhile to broadcast
The former, we can't control. The latter I'm sure could be organized somehow.
IIRC, the OJ trial had a viewership of about 60% of the USAs population at the time, which is nowhere near what we could get for CWC. Try 60% of the terminally online members of Gen Y/Z.

However, even if its not CNN or whoever, I'm sure there is at least one media company that would have the resources to  capture the proceedings in grorious HD for a reasonable sum that could be crowdfunded through one of the various CWC focused communities.


----------



## Ophelia (Aug 8, 2022)

brahsparagus said:


> Hypothetically speaking, how could we get this televised like the OJ trial?


Friend, Chris is not important. He matters to us here, and nowhere else. Much bigger fish than Chris aren’t televised when they go to trial.


----------



## Pointless Sperg (Aug 8, 2022)

AnOminous said:


> It's pretty standard to do that in any family court with sensitive material.  Circuit Court is a court of record and the default is public access.
> 
> Those seem to be permissive rules rather than mandatory.  I don't see why it's necessary that what happened in J&DR (not a court of record) would be the same in a court of record.  It also opens describing what it's talking about:
> 
> ...



That was 18.2-67.7:1 -- which is the section regarding kids. You need to look one entry up (no :1 at the end). It covers all of Article 7. That said, I did brain fart and it does not apply since Chris is not charged with sexual assault, and incest isn't even in crimes against the person, let alone article 7. 

I still think they're going to close it though, since any party can under 18.2-67.8 (and it specifically lists the incest statute).

§ 18.2-67.7. Admission of evidence (Supreme Court Rule 2:412 derived from this section).​A. In prosecutions under this article, or under clause (iii) or (iv) of § 18.2-48, 18.2-370, 18.2-370.01, or 18.2-370.1, general reputation or opinion evidence of the complaining witness's unchaste character or prior sexual conduct shall not be admitted. Unless the complaining witness voluntarily agrees otherwise, evidence of specific instances of his or her prior sexual conduct shall be admitted only if it is relevant and is:
1. Evidence offered to provide an alternative explanation for physical evidence of the offense charged which is introduced by the prosecution, limited to evidence designed to explain the presence of semen, pregnancy, disease, or physical injury to the complaining witness's intimate parts; or
2. Evidence of sexual conduct between the complaining witness and the accused offered to support a contention that the alleged offense was not accomplished by force, threat or intimidation or through the use of the complaining witness's mental incapacity or physical helplessness, provided that the sexual conduct occurred within a period of time reasonably proximate to the offense charged under the circumstances of this case; or
3. Evidence offered to rebut evidence of the complaining witness's prior sexual conduct introduced by the prosecution.
B. Nothing contained in this section shall prohibit the accused from presenting evidence relevant to show that the complaining witness had a motive to fabricate the charge against the accused. If such evidence relates to the past sexual conduct of the complaining witness with a person other than the accused, it shall not be admitted and may not be referred to at any preliminary hearing or trial unless the party offering same files a written notice generally describing the evidence prior to the introduction of any evidence, or the opening statement of either counsel, whichever first occurs, at the preliminary hearing or trial at which the admission of the evidence may be sought.
C. Evidence described in subsections A and B of this section shall not be admitted and may not be referred to at any preliminary hearing or trial until the court first determines the admissibility of that evidence at an evidentiary hearing to be held before the evidence is introduced at such preliminary hearing or trial. The court shall exclude from the evidentiary hearing all persons except the accused, the complaining witness, other necessary witnesses, and required court personnel. If the court determines that the evidence meets the requirements of subsections A and B of this section, it shall be admissible before the judge or jury trying the case in the ordinary course of the preliminary hearing or trial. If the court initially determines that the evidence is inadmissible, but new information is discovered during the course of the preliminary hearing or trial which may make such evidence admissible, the court shall determine in an evidentiary hearing whether such evidence is admissible.

§ 18.2-67.8. Closed preliminary hearings.​In preliminary hearings for offenses charged under this article or under §§ 18.2-361, 18.2-366, 18.2-370 or § 18.2-370.1, the court may, on its own motion or at the request of the Commonwealth, the complaining witness, the accused, or their counsel, exclude from the courtroom all persons except officers of the court and persons whose presence, in the judgment of the court, would be supportive of the complaining witness or the accused and would not impair the conduct of a fair hearing.


----------



## brahsparagus (Aug 8, 2022)

Ophelia said:


> Friend, Chris is not important. He matters to us here, and nowhere else. Much bigger fish than Chris aren’t televised when they go to trial.


Hence my qualification with a hypothetical. Consider the following list in decreasing order of likelihood of being present at the trial, should we get there:

Porcine ragemachine grunting into a cameraphone <--- Def gonna be there
Someone's buddy with a decent videocamera and a steady hand <--- not out of the question
A small time media company who would do it for $10K <--- also not out of the question
CNN with top end TV equipment <--- Def not gonna be there
I'm wondering, realistically, what is the best and most comprehensive footage we can hope to get, assuming a moderate amount of effort eg crowdfunding a bag and then contacting locals who are competent enough to capture courtroom proceedings and the aftermath.


----------

