# On The State of Israel



## Iwasamwillbe (Jan 19, 2019)

The State of Israel is a country with an extensive history and much more extensive controversy surrounding it.

In this thread, I intend to discuss the modern controversies surrounding the State of Israel. Some of them are religious in nature, some of them political, and some a mixture of both.

Quite frankly, I find it disturbing that a relatively small Middle Eastern/Western Asian nation is the cause, whether direct or indirect, of so much trouble and strife within the region.

My current personal position on Israel is what I would consider to be a "Practical Zionist": I support the right of the State of Israel to exist, since it is basically a sanctuary nation for Jews post-World War II, and it is a US ally, but there do exist problems in it that need to be fixed.

I do not support any two-state solution or Free Palestine political movements, since two-state solutions have already been rejected by prominent Arab statesmen, and Free Palestine movements* seem far too militaristic and even terroristic to warrant serious negotiations with.

Both certain prominent Arab statesmen and members of Free Palestine have desired a massive culling and even genocide of Jews in the past and even present.

I also do not much care for the apparent and undue influence it has on United States policy, because any foreign nation, even an ally, having too much an effect on US policy is dangerous in my view.

*defined as any movement that support or favor Palestine in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, not just the movement with that exact name.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Jan 19, 2019)

It should join the 21st Century by having open borders.


----------



## spurger king (Jan 19, 2019)

I'm cool with it existing I suppose, but my country needs to stop giving them billions of dollars a year. Also I find the idea of dual citizenship to be retarded. I agree with you that Israel has far too much control over US foreign policy as well. It's basically a parasite nation at this point. 

Oh yeah and if they wanted peace they should have just bought a chunk of South America or something.


----------



## Queen Elizabeth II (Jan 19, 2019)

One State solution. Israel's taking the rest of the kicking Europe would be if the Arabs weren't too busy raging about Israel.

I'd much rather they fight over sand there than look further afield.


----------



## WW 635 (Jan 20, 2019)

Iwasamwillbe said:


> Quite frankly, I find it disturbing that a relatively small Middle Eastern/Western Asian nation is the cause, whether direct or indirect, of so much trouble and strife within the region.


The entire region causes strife within the region.


----------



## Piss Clam (Jan 20, 2019)

I suppose in my view that depends on if you think that places such as Iraq/Lebanon/Syria should exist as drawn by western empires otherwise known as the partition of the Ottoman Empire.


----------



## soy_king (Jan 20, 2019)

Overall a decent country. Not great, but it's almost on the level of a developed country. My personal belief would be a Dayton Agreement-style one state solution, but I think that's practically infeasible.

OT but I still find it amazing how people still believe European colonialists were irresponsible and drew arbitrary lines in the sand when they colonized places. It's pretty obvious they drew borders with geographic and economic considerations in mind, and felt the presence of native peoples to be entirely besides the point.


----------



## millais (Jan 20, 2019)

They need to denuclearise. As long as they have nukes, Iran will want nukes, and if Iran gets nukes, Saudi Arabia will want nukes. The last thing we need is for the country that spawned the September 11 hijackers to have nukes.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Jan 20, 2019)

millais said:


> They need to denuclearise. As long as they have nukes, Iran will want nukes, and if Iran gets nukes, Saudi Arabia will want nukes. The last thing we need is for the country that spawned the September 11 hijackers to have nukes.


But the logical progression of that would be literally everyone having nukes.

I want my McDonalds Nukes.


----------



## millais (Jan 20, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> But the logical progression of that would be literally everyone having nukes.
> 
> I want my McDonalds Nukes.


No, I think it ends with Saudi Arabia. No one else in the region would want or be able to afford nukes. Maybe Qatar if the blockade is still around by the time Saudi gets nukes. Everyone else is either on good enough terms with Saudi or too poor to develop nukes.


----------



## Datiko (Jan 20, 2019)

Israel provides advancements in technology across all sectors. It's a largely free society that protects the rights of it's minorites.  

The countries around Israel produce jihad and Sharia. They do not protect their minorities and are cesspools.  Hamas is particularly terrible. It uses the fertilizer and sugar sent for it's "citizens" by people who believe the organizations propaganda as fuel for rockets used to bomb Israeli civilians.


----------



## Lysol (Jan 20, 2019)

Just how much I think Israel should have a right to exist is directly proportional to how much fuckery they're doing in other countries. If they'd stop funding _certain_ ideologies and lobbyists for them, I'd see no problem with it. As it stands, fuck em.


----------



## soy_king (Jan 20, 2019)

Lysol said:


> Just how much I think Israel should have a right to exist is directly proportional to how much fuckery they're doing in other countries. If they'd stop funding _certain_ ideologies and lobbyists for them, I'd see no problem with it. As it stands, fuck em.


What ideologies are they funding? Israel and Jews aren't the same thing. If anything, Soros and other left-wing American Jews hate Netanyahu and are actively attempting to remove him from power.



millais said:


> No, I think it ends with Saudi Arabia. No one else in the region would want or be able to afford nukes. Maybe Qatar if the blockade is still around by the time Saudi gets nukes. Everyone else is either on good enough terms with Saudi or too poor to develop nukes.



Strangely enough, it's surprising how the Western MSM has turned on Saudi Arabia and is becoming more sympathetic to Iran, despite the fact that MBS is doing a lot to reform Saudi. It's almost as if the media has become so deranged at the prospect of Drumpf that they're willing to piss on those lovely Muslims if he happens to support them.


----------



## Clem Fandango (Jan 20, 2019)

One side draws the border. Other side chooses which half they get.


----------



## guccigash (Jan 20, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> But the logical progression of that would be literally everyone having nukes.
> 
> I want my McDonalds Nukes.


Domino's are the nukes you seek

http://theloosenukes.blogspot.com/2013/10/pizza-delivery-blamed-for-nuclear.html


----------



## Smug Chuckler (Jan 20, 2019)

I stand by Israel and I'm proud of it and I'm totally not saying it because I don't want to be on ADL's watchlist.

Seriously: D. It can do whatever, get the US out of it.


----------



## Chiang Kai-shek (Jan 20, 2019)

Generally, I support Israel as they are one of the few countries in the middle east that isn't a theocratic shithole. However, they are far from perfect. Such as when they pull shit like randomly bombing Syria despite not being in a fucking war, which might explain why neocons like them so much. Personally I'd wish they stop with the settlements and striking other countries without declarations of war. It would be much better PR for them to be honest. Despite that, I'll take Israel over any other islamic shithole out there. I doubt any of the groups fighting against Israel (Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, etc.) would do anything useful with the land and turn it into another Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Queen Elizabeth II (Jan 20, 2019)

For the American's objecting to supporting Israel, is the funding not worth it?

If Israel was not there, it would probably be you guys being drawn into fights across Southern Europe. If there's one thing we should have learned about the Middle East by now; if they're not fighting among themselves, they're trying to invade Europe. That has been consistent, and remains more true today than ever.

And if Europe's being trashed, we're not able to buy your stuff. Israel seems to be a pretty good investment really.


----------



## Deadwaste (Jan 20, 2019)

delete israel. replace it with anime. surely that'll make it better


----------



## ICametoLurk (Jan 20, 2019)

Smug Chuckler said:


> I stand by Israel and I'm proud of it and I'm totally not saying it because I don't want to be on ADL's watchlist.


There's actually a worse list they put you on.
https://canarymission.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Mission


----------



## Stoneheart (Jan 20, 2019)

Just deport all of them to israel.


----------



## soy_king (Jan 20, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> There's actually a worse list they put you on.
> https://canarymission.org
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Mission


Eh probably for the best. I mean what exactly is the justification for not having a watchlist for denying people entry into a country? It's not like Mossad is being sent to murder these people.


----------



## Toucan (Jan 21, 2019)

We wouldnt tolerate it if any other country in the world became a theocratic ethnostate and began to occupy the territory of its neighbours. 
Why should Israel get a pass?


----------



## Malodorous Merkin (Jan 21, 2019)

Toucan said:


> We wouldnt tolerate it if any other country in the world became a theocratic ethnostate and began to occupy the territory of its neighbours.
> Why should Israel get a pass?



Because Palestine is a theocratic death cult state.

And isn't the situation you described above pretty much what Boko Haram has been doing since 2014? We seem to be tolerating that just fine.


----------



## Queen Elizabeth II (Jan 21, 2019)

Toucan said:


> We wouldnt tolerate it if any other country in the world became a theocratic ethnostate and began to occupy the territory of its neighbours.
> Why should Israel get a pass?



It's shooting missiles at the people who want to kill us rather than at us.


----------



## Donald Trump's Neck Vag (Jan 23, 2019)

Malodorous Merkin said:


> Because Palestine is a theocratic death cult state.
> 
> And isn't the situation you described above pretty much what Boko Haram has been doing since 2014? We seem to be tolerating that just fine.





Fagatron said:


> It's shooting missiles at the people who want to kill us rather than at us.



It's interesting that Israel-firsters and other cucks always try to equate Palestinians with ISIS and other groups who want to 'kill us' and conveniently ignore the fact that literally every political persuasion and religion in the MENA opposes Israel. Christians were among the first to take up arms against the Zionists. The main Palestinian group - the PLO is wholly secular. Even Hamas's rhetoric is still pretty mild compared to the rhetoric that comes from the mainstream Israeli right-wing lmao. 

It's not too surprising, to be honest. Israelis and American Jews spend tens of millions every year on propaganda to make you believe that Israel is a bastion of progressive values, and not some shithole ethnostate with a rapidly growing percentage of Orthodox Jews who want to be a Jewish version of Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Queen Elizabeth II (Jan 23, 2019)

Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> It's interesting that Israel-firsters and other cucks always try to equate Palestinians with ISIS and other groups who want to 'kill us' and conveniently ignore the fact that literally every political persuasion and religion in the MENA opposes Israel. Christians were among the first to take up arms against the Zionists. The main Palestinian group - the PLO is wholly secular. Even Hamas's rhetoric is still pretty mild compared to the rhetoric that comes from the mainstream Israeli right-wing lmao.
> 
> It's not too surprising, to be honest. Israelis and American Jews spend tens of millions every year on propaganda to make you believe that Israel is a bastion of progressive values and not some shithole ethnostate with a rapidly growing percentage of Orthodox Jews who want to be a Jewish version of Saudi Arabia.



Israel isn't progressive by a long shot. The Orthodox Rabbinate granted absolute power across areas like marriage is hated even by the majority of the secular Jews who form the bulk of the population (even the majority of heterosexual reform jews can't get married there if they're not in the minority authority that wields power).

This is an area where I'd actually say religion is a big part but isn't the be all and end all of the sources of conflict. It's a West vs East thing, and even if you go all the way back before the Abrahamic religions Persia and even before then, something from the East kept coming forth to try and murderstomp Europe. 

It doesn't matter what creed they ascribe to, Palestine (or more correctly, its allies) are a threat to the west. Israel has never attacked the US, whereas the rest of the Middle East have long and colorful histories of aggressive rhetoric and often several atrocities waged by them against you. 

Israel has been at war since its inception, it's going to be far more aggressive than a nation that doesn't have a very high probability of their neighbor deciding to declare jihad on any religious date of significance like the Yom Kippur war. Israel does not deserve to be judged by the same standards as other western nations for that reason, it wouldn't be there if it didn't do what it does. 

But even if we do, and even if Israel is viewed as a hostile power, I'd much rather have the middle east waging war against itself rather than turning its eyes elsewhere, which it always does without exception in history when it isn't.

If you weren't pumping money into Israel, you'd be pumping troops into Eastern Europe and the Meditterenian because the Arabs won't buy your stuff.


----------



## Malodorous Merkin (Jan 23, 2019)

Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> It's interesting that Israel-firsters and other cucks always try to equate Palestinians with ISIS and other groups who want to 'kill us' and conveniently ignore the fact that literally every political persuasion and religion in the MENA opposes Israel. Christians were among the first to take up arms against the Zionists. The main Palestinian group - the PLO is wholly secular. Even Hamas's rhetoric is still pretty mild compared to the rhetoric that comes from the mainstream Israeli right-wing lmao.
> 
> It's not too surprising, to be honest. Israelis and American Jews spend tens of millions every year on propaganda to make you believe that Israel is a bastion of progressive values, and not some shithole ethnostate with a rapidly growing percentage of Orthodox Jews who want to be a Jewish version of Saudi Arabia.



"Mild"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

They're a death cult that worships suicide bombers like they're rock stars.

Is that seriously your idea of "mild"?


----------



## Donald Trump's Neck Vag (Jan 23, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> Israel isn't progressive by a long shot. The Orthodox Rabbinate granted absolute power across areas like marriage is hated even by the majority of the secular Jews who form the bulk of the population (even the majority of heterosexual reform jews can't get married there if they're not in the minority authority that wields power).
> 
> This is an area where I'd actually say religion is a big part but isn't the be all and end all of the sources of conflict. It's a West vs East thing, and even if you go all the way back before the Abrahamic religions Persia and even before then, something from the East kept coming forth to try and murderstomp Europe.
> 
> ...



Israel's been at war since it's inception because they decided to establish a country in land that people were already living in. If a bunch of Jews decided they wanted to establish Montana as their mythical homeland, do you think Americans would let me?

No, we'd beat the shit out of them so bad the holocaust would look like a walk in the park. 

Palestine is *no threat* to us whatsoever. Palestinian terrorist groups are entirely localized - with a few exceptions - to the Levant. With the exception of Iran, all of Palestine's allies are also US allies. So I'm not sure what you mean by this. Meanwhile, Israel exerts a ridiculous amount of influence on our government. 

Not sure where you're going with the 'East vs West' thing either. Virtually every great power has tried to conquer vast swathes of land. The Greeks, Macedonians, Romans, and Byzantines all tried to conquer large parts of the Middle East. The Persians weren't trying to conquer Europe (which was largely an economic, social, and cultural backwater) they were trying to conquer the Greeks just as they'd conquered countless other civilizations. Same thing with the Ottomans. Before they even set eyes on Europe, they had spent centuries conquering the east. 

Not to mention the fact that the ancient Greeks and the other great Mediterranean civilizations of Europe would've seen themselves as being far closer in terms of culture, belief, and stature to the people of the Middle East and North Africa than to the rest of 'the West.' 

As for the 'Arabs won't buy your stuff', I don't know what you mean by this. Pretty much all the Arab states are huge trading partners with Western countries. 



Malodorous Merkin said:


> "Mild"
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund
> 
> ...



Yes, pretty mild compared to what the Israelis do. Jewish terrorists are widely venerated. Baruch Goldstein (a foreign invader from Brooklyn, interesting enough) killed 29 and injured nearly 130 goys. The guy's grave is literally a pilgrimage site for Jews. Hundreds of thousands visited before it was demolished. 

Like I said, it's all propaganda. The slightest thing a Palestinian does wrong is immediately broadcast to the world, but mainstream Israeli politicians quoting the bible and preaching genocide are glossed over.


----------



## Malodorous Merkin (Jan 23, 2019)

Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> Israel's been at war since it's inception because they decided to establish a country in land that people were already living in. If a bunch of Jews decided they wanted to establish Montana as their mythical homeland, do you think Americans would let me?
> 
> No, we'd beat the shit out of them so bad the holocaust would look like a walk in the park.
> 
> ...



How much reward money was Baruch Goldstein's family awarded by the Israeli government? 

How much reward money does Israel pay the families of Jewish suicide bombers? What's the going rate?


----------



## Dreamland (Jan 23, 2019)

I miss the "I don't care about jooz and sandpeople fighting over a sandbox" option.


----------



## soy_king (Jan 23, 2019)

Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> Israel's been at war since it's inception because they decided to establish a country in land that people were already living in. If a bunch of Jews decided they wanted to establish Montana as their mythical homeland, do you think Americans would let me?
> 
> No, we'd beat the shit out of them so bad the holocaust would look like a walk in the park.



You do realize that Jewish presence in the area predates the Palestinian Arabs, right? I know the Waqf and PNA has been systematically attempting to erase Jewish archaeological evidence, but it doesn't make it any less true that Jews are the indigenous people of the area. 



Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> Palestine is *no threat* to us whatsoever. Palestinian terrorist groups are entirely localized - with a few exceptions - to the Levant. With the exception of Iran, all of Palestine's allies are also US allies. So I'm not sure what you mean by this. Meanwhile, Israel exerts a ridiculous amount of influence on our government.
> 
> Not sure where you're going with the 'East vs West' thing either. Virtually every great power has tried to conquer vast swathes of land. The Greeks, Macedonians, Romans, and Byzantines all tried to conquer large parts of the Middle East. The Persians weren't trying to conquer Europe (which was largely an economic, social, and cultural backwater) they were trying to conquer the Greeks just as they'd conquered countless other civilizations. Same thing with the Ottomans. Before they even set eyes on Europe, they had spent centuries conquering the east.



By focusing solely on Palestine, you neglect to mention the fact that Israel acts as a counterweight to Anti-American regimes in the region since at least 1956. They helped contain the advance of Pro-Soviet Pan Arabist regimes, destroyed Saddam's nuclear facilities, and are currently sabotaging Iranian attempts at nuclear proliferation and regional expansion. Also, the slew of terrorist acts committed by Palestinians on civilians should be reason enough not to support them.



Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> Yes, pretty mild compared to what the Israelis do. Jewish terrorists are widely venerated. Baruch Goldstein (a foreign invader from Brooklyn, interesting enough) killed 29 and injured nearly 130 goys. The guy's grave is literally a pilgrimage site for Jews. Hundreds of thousands visited before it was demolished.
> 
> Like I said, it's all propaganda. The slightest thing a Palestinian does wrong is immediately broadcast to the world, but mainstream Israeli politicians quoting the bible and preaching genocide are glossed over.


Foreign invaders? You were just talking about right of conquest, or is that only acceptable for brown people to do?

Also, would you consider the throwing of a disabled elderly Jewish man off a cruise liner into the ocean mild? What about the Islamization of the Gaza Strip, or the lynching of Israeli soldiers? What about the deliberate placement of military personnel in civilian areas, and then threatening civilians with death if they attempt to leave after being warned to evacuate? Where exactly are the tribunals by the PNA against Palestinians who commit war crimes against Jews?


----------



## Chiang Kai-shek (Jan 23, 2019)

Toucan said:


> We wouldnt tolerate it if any other country in the world became a theocratic ethnostate and began to occupy the territory of its neighbours.
> Why should Israel get a pass?


We do actually, it’s called Morocco and they’re one of our allies.


----------



## Donald Trump's Neck Vag (Jan 23, 2019)

soy_king said:


> You do realize that Jewish presence in the area predates the Palestinian Arabs, right? I know the Waqf and PNA has been systematically attempting to erase Jewish archaeological evidence, but it doesn't make it any less true that Jews are the indigenous people of the area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have an appropriate username, soy king.

Israel's a shithole. 'Palestinian Arabs' are the native people of the Levant. Just as with virtually every Arab group outside of Arabia, they are descended from native populations who adopted the religion/identity post-conquest. This is the reason why someone from Lebanon doesn't look the same as someone from Saudi Arabia.

Very few Israelis have any actual connection to the Levant. Their population is largely composed of European and North African Jews. Jews certainly have a place there, but not ALL jews. 

By your logic, Ethiopians deserve to live in Italy. After all, they're all Christians! And someone from Ethiopia might have an ancestor that was born in the Roman Empire!

America gains no benefit from Israel. If it did, they wouldn't spend billions trying to manipulate us into supporting them. They manipulate us and mock us. It's considered political suicide to even CONSIDER saying a bad word about Israel in America. They're not a 'counterweight' to anything. The vast majority of Israel's neighbors are backed and funded by America. Those that are anti-American are anti-American BECAUSE of the US's ludicrous support of the Jewish ethnostate. 

Let's not even touch on the fact that the Jewish religion itself is a horrible, supremacist death cult from which Islam derived its worst ideas. 

TL;DR Nuke the kikes


----------



## soy_king (Jan 23, 2019)

PortsideDave said:


> We do actually, it’s called Morocco and they’re one of our allies.


Also Turkey for that matter.

In any case, @Donald Trump's Neck Vag is overblowing the terror of theocracy. Theocratic states are no worse than any authoritarian/totalitarian regime, including Communism, Fascism, etc. Religion is simply an ideology with a supernatural component.



Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> You have an appropriate username, soy king.
> 
> Israel's a shithole. 'Palestinian Arabs' are the native people of the Levant. Just as with virtually every Arab group outside of Arabia, they are descended from native populations who adopted the religion/identity post-conquest. This is the reason why someone from Lebanon doesn't look the same as someone from Saudi Arabia.



As is yours.

Israel's a much better country than any of the Arab nations in terms of human rights, and is loads wealthier than any Arab nation without oil. Arabs aren't native to any area outside of the Arabian Peninsula, and the Arab populations of the rest of the Middle East are the descendants of the conquered people and the conquerors, so a significant portion of their origin is from the Arabian Peninsula.



Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> Very few Israelis have any actual connection to the Levant. Their population is largely composed of European and North African Jews. Jews certainly have a place there, but not ALL jews.
> 
> By your logic, Ethiopians deserve to live in Italy. After all, they're all Christians! And someone from Ethiopia might have an ancestor that was born in the Roman Empire!



You're conflating a religious group with an ethnoreligious group. Archaeogenetics and historical records clearly establish that the diaspora have a strong connection to the area. 



Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> America gains no benefit from Israel. If it did, they wouldn't spend billions trying to manipulate us into supporting them. They manipulate us and mock us. It's considered political suicide to even CONSIDER saying a bad word about Israel in America. They're not a 'counterweight' to anything. The vast majority of Israel's neighbors are backed and funded by America. Those that are anti-American are anti-American BECAUSE of the US's ludicrous support of the Jewish ethnostate.
> 
> Let's not even touch on the fact that the Jewish religion itself is a horrible, supremacist death cult from which Islam derived its worst ideas.
> 
> TL;DR Nuke the kikes


Besides the containment of Anti-American regimes, Israel provides a strong cooperative economy with a powerful service economy that has strong ties to America. The Arabs, on the other hand, provide Petroleum, radicalization, and that's about it.

Tell me, where in Judaism does it say that a man can have four wives, or that a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's? Also, no one here is talking about the religion, so including that in the discussion is irrelevant at best. Not all Jews are religious, and cumulatively, Jews have provided more for the world than Arabs (or Islam) ever have.


----------



## AF 802 (Jan 23, 2019)

I unironically support Israel, only to show liberals who support violent idiots (radical Islamists) who blow themselves up to troll Jewtards, ignoring actual things that happen. Plus Israel already has decent treatment of Arabs already in the country from what I understand.

Plus I don't want to be on the side of people who do autistic screeching any time a Western company wants to do business in that country. Who cares if they do business there?


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Jan 23, 2019)

Give Her The D said:


> I don't want to be on the side of people who do autistic screeching any time a Western company wants to do business in that country. Who cares if they do business there?


This is a valid point, but on the other hand the actual US government autistically screeches over people not wanting to do business there.


----------



## Hellbound Hellhound (Jan 25, 2019)

Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> America gains no benefit from Israel.



Israel is one of the world leaders in science and technology, with it's share of scientific publications far outweighing it's share of the world population. They spend more on research and development as a percentage of GDP than any other country in the world, have more scientists per 1000 employees than any other country, and boast one of the highest rates of new patents per capita (The WIPO's Global Innovation Index ranks Israel 17th place, which is pretty remarkable, considering the country only has a population of 8.7 million people).

Do you not think Americans benefit from that?


----------



## ArnoldPalmer (Jan 25, 2019)

While I don't outright hate the existence of Israel, as it's a nice containment area for the yids, I will say that the Gaza Strip would make for a nice glass parking lot.

I'm tired of my country being their bodyguard. I'm tired of giving them enough foreign aid PER YEAR to be able to pay for ten Beaner Walls, when they have their own Nuclear Arsenal. I'm tired of U.S. taxpayers giving more money to keep Israel alive, than Israeli taxpayers shell out.

I'm tired of 1/4 of the U.S. Senate being made up of Israeli-U.S. Dual Citizens, when they're 1.4% of the U.S. population. I'm tired of them deliberately destabilizing the rest of the Middle East, for instance, by funding ISIS, so that they have an excuse to expand their already ill-gotten landmass. I'm tired of Zionism. I'm tired of Globalism. I'm tired of them trying to influence the world. I'm tired of a new legislation being attempted every year to make it illegal, _as an American,_ to vocally boycott Israeli goods and services. NOPE NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST THERE YOU FILTHY ANTI-SEMITE.

And above all, I'm really fucking tired of the god damned Jews. I'll make no bones about my disdain for them. They should either stay in Israel, or bake for 350 degrees, on either side, or until golden brown. I know more about these fucking people than I've ever wanted to know, and the more I learn about them (from their own sources!), the more I grow to despise them. The Jews are like Jihadis if they were better at hiding their intentions behind genocide. I don't care if they have one of the best hospitals in the world. It's not my fucking hospital. Of course, not every Jew is this fucking shitty, but most of them are, and the ones from Israel tend to be, and boy howdy do they love coming to America for some fucking reason.



Oh and don't forget to press F to pay respects to the 600 billion dead yarmulkes. Lest we forget all about their storied history of usury and subversion.


----------



## soy_king (Jan 26, 2019)

ArnoldPalmer said:


> While I don't outright hate the existence of Israel, as it's a nice containment area for the yids, I will say that the Gaza Strip would make for a nice glass parking lot.
> 
> I'm tired of my country being their bodyguard. I'm tired of giving them enough foreign aid PER YEAR to be able to pay for ten Beaner Walls, when they have their own Nuclear Arsenal. I'm tired of U.S. taxpayers giving more money to keep Israel alive, than Israeli taxpayers shell out.
> 
> ...


You're not really doing anything for anti semites by showing how utterly dumb and uninformed they are if you're at all an average representation.

This isn't really for your exceptional ass, but here's what you got wrong:

We give $3 billion per year to Israel, which by treaty must be used to purchase US-made weapons. Trump has stated the Wall would cost $ 5 billion. In comparison, Afghanistan receives about $5.7 billion a year, and Iraq receives $3.6 billion a year.
Israel's budget for 2017 was about $300 billion. Considering that they only receive $3 billion, that would mean Israeli citizens pay 99% of their budget.
Being Jewish doesn't automatically make you an Israeli citizen. It makes you ELIGIBLE for Israeli citizenship, and nowhere has it been presented that EVERY Jewish member of Congress is a dual citizen.
Israel doesn't fund ISIS. If you're pissed about that, you should be more furious about the Gulf Arab and Saudi donors from whom ISIS receives funding, who also cower behind the American Shield. Wait, no outrage there? I'm absolutely shocked.
You should probably stop imbibing so much from the conspiracy well. Jews to White Supremacists are like the White Man to Black Supremacists. It's one of the lulziest things I've ever seen. Not every Jewish person (actually most) aren't overwhelmingly religious, and the point of the Talmud isn't that it all needs to be followed to the letter; it's a collection of rabbinical interpretations of religious texts, much like the way common law works in the US. Second, a lot of the "Talmudic tracts" lorded by persons like yourself are fake.


----------



## ArnoldPalmer (Jan 26, 2019)

soy_king said:


> We give $3 billion per year to Israel, which by treaty must be used to purchase US-made weapons. Trump has stated the Wall would cost $ 5 billion. In comparison, Afghanistan receives about $5.7 billion a year, and Iraq receives $3.6 billion a year.



https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/sen...tary-aid-package-to-israel-into-law-1.6340748

Oh  look you're wrong. Using their own sources.



> Israel doesn't fund ISIS. If you're pissed about that, you should be more furious about the Gulf Arab and Saudi donors from whom ISIS receives funding, who also cower behind the American Shield. Wait, no outrage there? I'm absolutely shocked.


Then how is it that ISIS repeatedly wind up with crates upon crates of arms in hebrew text? Do you think the kikes are really just that bad at holding onto their things?

And there's plenty of outrage there, but we're talking about Israel right now. Why would you want to change the subject, if not to downplay?



> Being Jewish doesn't automatically make you an Israeli citizen. It makes you ELIGIBLE for Israeli citizenship, and nowhere has it been presented that EVERY Jewish member of Congress is a dual citizen.



Currently 89% of the Jewish members of the senate are Israeli dual citizens.


Do you need a second yarmulke for your nose? I don't know how that works.


----------



## Iwasamwillbe (Jan 26, 2019)

ArnoldPalmer said:


> Using their own sources.


I just want to state that the Jews are not some sort of hivemind, that there is no unitary and singular authoritative news source for the Jewish people, and that not every Jew believes or even reads the Haaretz.


----------



## ArnoldPalmer (Jan 26, 2019)

I'll talk about them as a group in the same way I'll talk about muslims or mormons as a group. They still have common enough goals. Still, That $38b didn't come from nowhere. I'm still right.


----------



## BeanBidan (Jan 26, 2019)

Could use some nuclear fixing


----------



## byuu (Jan 26, 2019)

I want the King of Jordan to expand his Star Trek theme park and turn Israel into Nazi planet episode land.


----------



## Iwasamwillbe (Jan 26, 2019)

ArnoldPalmer said:


> They still have common enough goals.


Says who?

On what basis do you argue that of all the millions of Jews in the world, the majority of them desire some sort of conspiracy to aid Jews or Israel, and not just a good and moderately successful life?


----------



## ArnoldPalmer (Jan 26, 2019)

There's a fair bit of both columns, but I know that ingroup preference exists within EVERY group, and you'd have to be blind not to see their nepotism. Like I said before, I don't see many American or Secular Jews this way.

Ben Shapiro may be a pro-israel zionist, but he's still a beautiful little boy, pwning libtards epicstyle all day and night. I can't really find it in me to hate him.


----------



## soy_king (Jan 26, 2019)

ArnoldPalmer said:


> https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/sen...tary-aid-package-to-israel-into-law-1.6340748
> 
> Oh  look you're wrong. Using their own sources.



LOL I love how you can't read. Tell me, what do you get when you divide 38 billion by 10? I know goyim are terrible at math, but bear with me.



ArnoldPalmer said:


> Then how is it that ISIS repeatedly wind up with crates upon crates of arms in hebrew text? Do you think the kikes are really just that bad at holding onto their things?
> 
> And there's plenty of outrage there, but we're talking about Israel right now. Why would you want to change the subject, if not to downplay?



Citation. Needed. The closest source I got was Haaretz, the most pinko liberal Israeli newspaper you can find, and even they only said Israel funded 12 rebel groups to fight Assad and ISIS. That's O for 2 there bud.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...ly-armed-and-funded-12-rebel-groups-1.6462729



ArnoldPalmer said:


> Currently 89% of the Jewish members of the senate are Israeli dual citizens.
> 
> 
> Do you need a second yarmulke for your nose? I don't know how that works.



I'll say this again. Citation. Needed. My ethnic background has nothing to do with this argument, unless you need some convenient reason not to listen to facts.


----------



## tomthehusky (Feb 10, 2019)

Israel shouldn't have been created but its not going away.  The alternatives are less appealing.  Deal with it.


----------



## Kerr Avon (Feb 11, 2019)

From the river to the sea , Palestine is feces


----------



## 1864897514651 (Feb 11, 2019)

Well, I am a Jew, and my Messiah has come and established His Church. I do not believe our Lord told His faithful diaspora to emigrate to some physical space on earth. As far as I am aware, the Temple is in our midst if we love Him and keep His Law. Zionists are mentally insane racists that worship DNA above God, and there is no holocaust that they can offer for that egregious sin on some stupid pagan altar in a desert. The desire for a facsimile of a zionist "third temple" is misguided because we already have the Most Holy Eucharist—our Messiah's Sacrifice on Calvary made present.

Christians seriously need to take this name away from these moronic niggers. We are, first and foremost, Jews. If we want to be more specific, we can ascertain that we are neo-Jews bound in the New Covenant as instituted by the Messiah, Jesus, and that our covenant is made by a circumcision of the heart. It is really super simple. Early Roman martyrology had tons of Jewish "conversions" because these Jew martyrs learned about the coming of the Messiah and believed. But really, they were not conversions; just a continuation of Jewish religion into the New Covenant. Christians are very much Jews, and I have no idea when this concept became lost to us.


----------



## Providence (Feb 11, 2019)

Donald Trump's Neck Vag said:


> Israel's been at war since it's inception because they decided to establish a country in land that people were already living in. If a bunch of Jews decided they wanted to establish Montana as their mythical homeland, do you think Americans would let me?
> 
> No, we'd beat the shit out of them so bad the holocaust would look like a walk in the park.
> 
> ...



Israel isn't perfect, to be sure.  

Out of curiosity,  if America shared a border with suicide bombing rock throwers,  how do you think they'd handle it? I think they'd glass them. Israel has been downright gentle in their handling of the Palestinian menace compared to how I'd handle my neighbor behaving in a similar fashion.


----------



## soy_king (Feb 11, 2019)

1864897514651 said:


> Well, I am a Jew, and my Messiah has come and established His Church. I do not believe our Lord told His faithful diaspora to emigrate to some physical space on earth. As far as I am aware, the Temple is in our midst if we love Him and keep His Law. Zionists are mentally insane racists that worship DNA above God, and there is no holocaust that they can offer for that egregious sin on some stupid pagan altar in a desert. The desire for a facsimile of a zionist "third temple" is misguided because we already have the Most Holy Eucharist—our Messiah's Sacrifice on Calvary made present.
> 
> Christians seriously need to take this name away from these moronic niggers. We are, first and foremost, Jews. If we want to be more specific, we can ascertain that we are neo-Jews bound in the New Covenant as instituted by the Messiah, Jesus, and that our covenant is made by a circumcision of the heart. It is really super simple. Early Roman martyrology had tons of Jewish "conversions" because these Jew martyrs learned about the coming of the Messiah and believed. But really, they were not conversions; just a continuation of Jewish religion into the New Covenant. Christians are very much Jews, and I have no idea when this concept became lost to us.


Have you by any chance hired Mexicans and dressed them in Hasidic clothing to protest the Israel Parade I'm NY?

https://goo.gl/images/bi7vxT

This is fairly common practice
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nst-New-York-City-gay-pride-parade-Sunda.html


----------



## murgatroid (Sep 27, 2019)

My thoughts on the matter can be summed up in "Vae victis". If anything Israel is overly sympathetic when they can turn their neighbors to glass if they want to. You're beat Palestine.

Don't know why I'm stepping foot (finger?) in this thread. Only bad things can come of this.


----------



## NeroRisotto (Sep 27, 2019)

I think the Jews deserve at least one state, and the Palestinians should ether calm their tits or fuck off to the dozens of other kebab countries.


----------



## Homer J. Fong (Sep 27, 2019)

I think the most important thing is they get off the US's tit in terms of financial support along with the rest of the nations that just get giant tugboats.

Beyond that I don't care, After spending time with foreigners I've realized that pampered entitled westerners arrogantly think they can impose their morality onto the rest of the world. It's a continuation of Imperialism but now we're too cowardly to force them to change with might.


----------



## I Love Beef (Sep 28, 2019)

I personally think all of the zealots who think they're above the Separation of Church and State and want the US to be "God's Kingdom" should go the way of Waco and Jonestown and go all out to see if the Rapture, the Tribulation, the Day of Judgement, and the Second Coming will happen if they start gas light triggering Palestinians to eventually bomb the shit out of major Israeli state institutions into another major Middle East war.

I've always thought that the Christian world's obsession of Israel was immensely backass and even hypocritical to anything Jesus taught. Yes, it's where Jesus lived and died and came back to life, but I don't see the world fighting over Stonehenge or Buddha's Eagle's Peak in India.


----------



## Dom Cruise (Sep 28, 2019)

I Love Beef said:


> I personally think all of the zealots who think they're above the Separation of Church and State and want the US to be "God's Kingdom" should go the way of Waco and Jonestown and go all out to see if the Rapture, the Tribulation, the Day of Judgement, and the Second Coming will happen if they start gas light triggering Palestinians to eventually bomb the shit out of major Israeli state institutions into another major Middle East war.
> 
> I've always thought that the Christian world's obsession of Israel was immensely backass and even hypocritical to anything Jesus taught. Yes, it's where Jesus lived and died and came back to life, but I don't see the world fighting over Stonehenge or Buddha's Eagle's Peak in India.



The interest in Israel stems from Bible prophecy, it's stated in the book of Revelations that the first sign of the "End Times" is Israel becoming a state again.


----------



## Krokodil Overdose (Sep 28, 2019)

Honestly, with fracking making the Middle East a lot less relevant to global stability, I vote that the United States forget that place exists and lets nature take it's course.


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Sep 28, 2019)

Iwasamwillbe said:


> I just want to state that the Jews are not some sort of hivemind, that there is no unitary and singular authoritative news source for the Jewish people, and that not every Jew believes or even reads the Haaretz.



Alt-Right types (I'm not saying the dude you replied to is one, you just made me think of this is all) tend to be real idiots because they don't internalize this. There's not so much a world Jewish conspiracy to destroy the White Man so much as there's three big groups of Jews, two of whom are practically locked in a proxy war with each other using the US Government. You've got the Virgin Leftist Ashkenazim, based in NYC and LA, and the Chad Neocon Israelis, based in small-town USA and Israel. They both suck but for different reasons, and the Israelis suck a lot less than the Israelis. Then there's the real religious ones (Orthodox and the like) who basically just cling to themselves like Amish.

All three groups are vile and will occasionally close ranks to protect themselves (as any rational group would), but they have very different aspirations.

Alt-Right fags also tend to read malice into Leftist/Secular Jewish stuff when the most likely explanation is that they believe their own bullshit and are self-destructing.


----------



## ⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ (Sep 28, 2019)

I Love Beef said:


> I've always thought that the Christian world's obsession of Israel was immensely backass and even hypocritical to anything Jesus taught. Yes, it's where Jesus lived and died and came back to life, but I don't see the world fighting over Stonehenge or Buddha's Eagle's Peak in India.


True Christians do not support the Zionist entity. You will not find a loyal Syrian Orthodox Christian or an Armenian Christian in Iran who supports the Zionist entity. True Christians will do things like booing Ted Cruz off stage for supporting that Zionist crap.

Support for Zionism is a heresy within Christianity. If Martin Luther- or any Pope before the Catholics, too, were subverted by infiltration- could see these strange, deluded people with their heretic Scofield Bibles he would whip them in the streets.


----------



## Iwasamwillbe (Sep 28, 2019)

3119967d0c said:


> True Christians do not support the Zionist entity. You will not find a loyal Syrian Orthodox Christian or an Armenian Christian in Iran who supports the Zionist entity. True Christians will do things like booing Ted Cruz off stage for supporting that Zionist crap.
> 
> Support for Zionism is a heresy within Christianity. If Martin Luther- or any Pope before the Catholics, too, were subverted by infiltration- could see these strange, deluded people with their heretic Scofield Bibles he would whip them in the streets.


This No True Scotsmanning about "True Christians" is amazing.


----------



## Manwithn0n0men (Sep 28, 2019)

As a Zionist here I am getting a kick out of these replies

The State of Israel exists because the rest of the world has been [and in the region still is] Violently persecuting Jews.

The Balfour declaration was never 100% committed to by the British [and thats part of the problems we have now]

The Turks (in the pre-british era) started playing Jews vs Arabs [and thats part of the problem we have now]

The State of Israel came online during the cold war ((and the Palestinian Nationalist Identity was a creation of the KGB)) [And that and its fall out are part of the problems we have today]

Adolph Hitler and WWII allowed europe to not address their historical anti-Semitic conduct [and thats part of the problems we have now] 

The state of Israel was made by secular atheist jews, for secular atheist jews.....and then (due to the above) had to take in Religious Jews. Israel has never developed structures to adequately integrate Israel [and thats part of the problems we have now]


----------



## TaimuRadiu (Sep 30, 2019)

The Jews basically won the land of Palestine just like how the Americans conquered the West: by genocide and outbreeding. That is why Israel is America's most natural ally.

I hope to see the Jews reconquer the Sinai and conquer Jordan as well.


----------



## TFT-A9 (Sep 30, 2019)

Can the Israelis just fucking flatten Palestine and quit fucking around already? I don't have a dog in that fight but god damn.


----------



## Shoggoth (Sep 30, 2019)

Homoerotic Cougar-kun said:


> Can the Israelis just fucking flatten Palestine and quit fucking around already? I don't have a dog in that fight but god damn.


Israel is autistically concerned with world public opinion. It might not look like that but pick the brains of a few Israelis, they're all constantly factoring it in, for different reasons.
Basically, for each type of military operation, Israeli leadership knows they're on a clock before they get the not so subtle hint from the US to stop. If you ask yourself why all the last military operations in Gaza just stopped seemingly in the middle without achieving anything, that's that.
They think they narrowed public opinion down to a science, including how extensive you can make your operation as a function of the initial casus belli (dead grandma? kidnapped soldiers?), how long it can be, acceptable casualties as a function of the importance of the target, etc.
Which is all fucking gay. Just do what you need to once and face the consequences.
On the other hand, there are quite a bit of lefties in israel which will be incensed if something like that happened.
So they're mostly standing there with their finger in their ass eating rockets and breaches of sovereignty.


----------



## Foltest (Sep 30, 2019)

I support Israel over Palestinian as they have managed to create a state. The Palestinian need to get into their head that they have lost.


----------



## ⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ (Sep 30, 2019)

Manwithn0n0men said:


> the Palestinian Nationalist Identity was a creation of the KGB


Of course the Zionist lies so blatantly as to suggest that Palestinians, who deserve to live in their ancestral homeland in which they have lived for millenia, while the Zionists have proved themselves unworthy to live on this Earth, were 'invented' by an intelligence agency that didn't even exist at the time of the Nakba.

Keep lying, Zionist. Even Americans are waking up to your crimes against their own nation- from your murders of their sailors on the USS Liberty, to your owning of their politicians, to your foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, to your promotion of pedophilia and other sexual perversions to their children. I look forward to the day that all the free peoples of the Earth join hands in friendship and make it 257 and never again.


----------



## Manwithn0n0men (Sep 30, 2019)

3119967d0c said:


> Of course the Zionist lies so blatantly as to suggest that Palestinians, who deserve to live in their ancestral homeland in which they have lived for millenia, while the Zionists have proved themselves unworthy to live on this Earth, were 'invented' by an intelligence agency that didn't even exist at the time of the Nakba.
> 
> Keep lying, Zionist. Even Americans are waking up to your crimes against their own nation- from your murders of their sailors on the USS Liberty, to your owning of their politicians, to your foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, to your promotion of pedophilia and other sexual perversions to their children. I look forward to the day that all the free peoples of the Earth join hands in friendship and make it 257 and never again.


Then why in the 1920s did the "Palestinian Arab" Nationalists want to be part of Syria?
Why did they accept their occupation by the Jordanians and Egyptians until 67 (when they all of a sudden started to demand to be an independent nation)


----------



## Shoggoth (Sep 30, 2019)

Manwithn0n0men said:


> Then why in the 1920s did the "Palestinian Arab" Nationalists want to be part of Syria?
> Why did they accept their occupation by the Jordanians and Egyptians until 67 (when they all of a sudden started to demand to be an independent nation)


The history of Palestinian nationalism is a bit more complex than that. I wouldn't doubt the KGB might have helped along the way, but in general the entire concept of national identity in the Arab world is a bit iffy. The short version is that there is no developed concept of nationalism in the Arab world, due to several factors: familial and tribal ties taking precedence, the tension between Islam (Dar Al Islam, Al Uma) and the Nation, the tensions between Arabism (See Nesser's Pan Arabism), and the Nation, Communist and Socialists movements (Baath, Afghanistan), Shia, Suna and Alawi, and probably five more I didn't think about, this was just OTOH.
Moreover, actual nationalistic ideas only started in the Arab world around the mandate era after WW1, while they were pretty mature by then in Europe.
I reckon the first nationslistic figure for Palestinians would have been Haj Amin Al Husseiny, Jerusalem's grand Mufti, who had a beautiful friendship with uncle Adolf.


----------



## Manwithn0n0men (Sep 30, 2019)

Shoggoth said:


> I reckon the first nationslistic figure for Palestinians would have been Haj Amin Al Husseiny, Jerusalem's grand Mufti, who had a beautiful friendship with uncle Adolf.



Who advocated for a Nation of Syria-Palestine (Syria, Jordan, Mandate Palestine, and Lebanon)


----------



## Syaoran Li (Sep 30, 2019)

I support Israel simply because they're a lot better than the alternative and anything that is so virulently hated by both the hard right and the hard left has to have something good going for it. I do find their disproportionate influence over US policy to be concerning, but it's a lot more preferable to the inevitable Sharia Law-dominated shithole that would be in place if the Palestinians got their way.

Israel is the only thing that can make both Antifa and Stormfront shit themselves with impotent rage, I've gotta give some props to them on that alone.

A lot of Israel's policies are worth criticizing, such as the issue of the settlements in the West Bank. But trying to pin Soros or the ADL on Israel is autistic and stupid as fuck. Guys like the ADL and Soros are left-wing atheists who generally hate Israel and guys like Netanyahu. The ADL are a bunch of secular Jews from the American coastal cities who have a lot more in common with spoiled college leftist WASP's than with any other Jewish communities.

George Soros is just a sociopath with more dollars than sense, just like the Koch Brothers. If Soros loves the Jews so much, then why did he go out of his way to rat out Jewish civilians to the Nazis (and later on, the Soviets) in his native Hungary?

I have to admit, I am enjoying the idiocy of the /pol/ tards having autistic bitch fits over Israel in this thread.


----------



## Dial M for Misgender (Sep 30, 2019)

Should America exist? That is not a good question. A good question is "can anyone possibly come and take it"? The answer is "no".


----------



## mindlessobserver (Oct 1, 2019)

The issue I have with hypothetical "should Israel exist" questions is that they studiously ignore the fact that it DOES exist.


----------



## Oskar Dirlewanger (Oct 1, 2019)

The biggest problem with Israel and kikes in general is the recruitment procces. I'd love to be a rich jewish banker like Jeffrey Epstein but I'm not willing to cut off a piece of my penis in an offering to an ancient middle eastern demon.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Oct 1, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> The issue I have with hypothetical "should Israel exist" questions is that they studiously ignore the fact that it DOES exist.



True. 

Israel exists whether anyone likes it or not, and there's nothing any of us can do about it except sit back, grab a bag of popcorn, and enjoy the tard rage and sperg outs over its existence from Alt-Right /pol/ tards and SJW/Antifa tards.

Personally, I support the State of Israel's existence. They're the closest thing the Middle East has to a Western democratic republic now that Turkey's gone to shit and seeing how much both the far right and far left love to chimp out over Israel's mere existence is hilarious enough.


----------



## Sicklick (Sep 18, 2020)

The Jews massacred and ethnically cleansed the Palestinians on their own land, with the massacre of Deir Yassin and the King David Hotel bombing. But yet Palestinians are the aggressors because they are lobbing bottle rockets over the border which has killed how many people since the last 10 or 12 years now? Compared to Israel's arsenal, including their ballistic missiles, they are absolutely pathetic. The Israelis killed over 2,000 Palestinians during Operation Protective Edge alone. And that's not counting the maimed, the displaced, etc. They target hospitals and refugee camps in their air raids deliberately. The Israelis are cowards.


----------



## TitanWest (Sep 18, 2020)

Fuck Israel. It's the home base of the people who gave us political correctness and open borders because "Oy vey antisemitism! You have to be tolerant of minorities (Like us) goyim!". Then they act like total shit heads to the Palestinians. Talk about a predominantly white ethnostate in The West and these fucking Zionists will cancel you, but you better not dare criticize them! Zionists know that once The West wakes up and becomes Nationalistic that we'll kick the parasitic kikes out and the parasitic state of Israel will be fucked.



Spoiler: Several redpills


----------



## Basil II (Sep 18, 2020)

Due to the autism of every side it's hard to really get to the truth of the matter but as @3119967d0c mentioned it says a lot how the actual Christians living in the Middle East (as opposed to Americans LARPing as Christian every sunday at their local McChurch) despise Israel.  How shit does your state have to be that the durkas are the better option? There's also the issue with the Israeli influence in American politics that's verboten to even mention, and the amount of money siphoned by them while they literally attack our own ships.

The whole "only western democracy in middle east" thing is incredibly gay because the state of the middle east is a direct consequence of Israel's existence, their purposeful attempts at destabilization only adding fuel to the fire. The Middle East was actually decent during the interwar period before Israel provoked it into going full turboautism. This view is also incredibly disingenous considering how Israel is buddies with theocratic shitholes like Saudi Arabia.

Israel is full of the most hypocritical snakes who guilt trip others for political support (REMEMBER DA HOLOCAUST GOYIM) while refusing to recognise the Armenian Genocide, you even see it in this thread with @Manwithn0n0men ablooblooing about Jews being oppressed everywhere while actively ignoring that the Holocaust also targeted Slavs (More of them actually died in the war btw) Gays, and Gypsies (who have just as much claim to being oppressed wanderers).


----------



## Unyielding Stupidity (Sep 21, 2020)

The Arabs are just butthurt that someone else did to them what they've been doing to others for the past dozen centuries - they tried to wipe the Jews out of Arabia, so the Jews are now trying to wipe them out of Palestine.


----------



## Penrowe (Sep 24, 2020)

I LOVE ISRAEL AND THE JEWS


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Dec 5, 2020)

Penrowe said:


> I LOVE ISRAEL AND THE JEWS


why


----------



## cybertoaster (Jan 20, 2021)

They can exist but only if they surrender their khazar milkers


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Jan 20, 2021)

Depending on how unsafe those anti-Corona vaccines, Pfizer might cause the second holocaust with the 25% vaccination (as of this writing).


----------



## Rorschach Test (Jan 20, 2021)

Current Israel is dumb; Netanyahu is a dumb cuck.

It’s gotta be the one-state solution for me. Ethnic European Jews, Palestinians, all the rest should be living together with equal rights and guaranteed protection of religious and civil liberties. These kinds of institutions would make sure that even if Jews (religious or ethnic) become a minority, the majority doesn’t have a means of oppressing them. 

Call it “Palsrael” if you must. or “Israel 2” if you like sequels. I’m pretty sure the Palestinians would even accept just plain old “Israel” if it means they’re not getting bulldozed any more.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Jan 21, 2021)

cybertoaster said:


> They can exist but only if they surrender their khazar milkers


I've negotiated the surrender of their khazar milkers and they sent you this as a peace offering:


Spoiler: khazar milkers


----------



## cybertoaster (Jan 21, 2021)

Rorschach Test said:


> Current Israel is dumb; Netanyahu is a dumb cuck.
> 
> It’s gotta be the one-state solution for me. Ethnic European Jews, Palestinians, all the rest should be living together with equal rights and guaranteed protection of religious and civil liberties. These kinds of institutions would make sure that even if Jews (religious or ethnic) become a minority, the majority doesn’t have a means of oppressing them.
> 
> Call it “Palsrael” if you must. or “Israel 2” if you like sequels. I’m pretty sure the Palestinians would even accept just plain old “Israel” if it means they’re not getting bulldozed any more.


Look at europe and tell me muslims even care about muhinstitutions 


Lemmingwise said:


> I've negotiated the surrender of their khazar milkers and they sent you this as a peace offering:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: khazar milkers
> ...


So on top of being a manlet, bitchtits

All thats left for him is going bald and his daughter becoming a superwhore like jennifer white (also jewish btw)


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Jan 25, 2021)

I was wondering where the thread for discussing Israel was.

In an ideal world the Kingdom of Jerusalem would never have fallen and there'd still be a Christian government ruling over the Holy Land. However, this isn't an ideal world and so we have to deal with the consequences of that.

I'm a nationalist, and I believe that all peoples have a right to a homeland, and that this applies to the Jews as much as it does to anyone else. However, because the Jews have been in a diaspora ever since Simon bar Kokhba's revolt, it's hard to point to a specific point on the map and say ”this is a Jewish homeland” because there was no one region on Earth where Jews outnumbered Gentiles until very recently. However, given that the land administered by Israel has been Muslim since the fall of Acre in 1291, it's hard to say that the Jews have a claim to it any more than the Greeks (through the Byzantine Empire), the French (through Jerusalem) or the Turks (through the Ottoman Empire) do. What I do believe is that:
• we should never have written the Balfour declaration and effectively created Israel.
• we should have supported the Palestinian Arabs during the _Nakba.
• _Israel being one of the few liberal democracies in the region does not mean we in the West should suck it off constantly or that it should be excused from criticism when it fucks the Palestinians over.
• the borders of Israel are artificial, and as I have previously mentioned, Jews do not have any more right to Israel's territory than Greeks, Frenchmen or Turks.
• it is not anti-Semitic to say any of these things and using anti-Semitism as a tool to beat anti-Zionists with diminishes the very real anti-Semitism that Jews have faced and continue to face throughout their history.


----------



## Doctor Placebo (Jan 25, 2021)

I forget the name of the former US military officer who said, "I don't hate Israel. I hope Israel prospers. But not at the cost of one American life or one American dollar."

Of course this is a rather optimistic and currently unrealistic view. Many powerful people in our government and heads of corporations are too closely tied to Israel for us to disentangle with the nation, and it may not be desirable to completely do so. But the fact is that right now we are in an unequal relationship. Israel puts its own interests first and foremost, which is perfectly natural, but in the US, a majority of politicians seem take it for granted that what's best for Israel is automatically best for America. This isn't always the case, and neocons in particular are notorious for pushing for military intervention in the Middle East with the goal of making Israel more secure and prosperous, despite how America suffers the consequences for it. Even more alarming is the push at home to marginalize and ban any voices of criticism towards Israel. Most recently were the notorious measures enacted against any company that boycotted Israel, laws that don't apply to boycotting any other country. 

While there are arguments that can be made for supporting Israel in general, the often mindless, and frequently authoritarian nature of support of Israel by the US government is a very real and serious problem.


----------



## Donker (Jan 25, 2021)

The most positive outcome of Israel Palestine is a Federalised Secular state of Israel and Palestine, that ensures a certain amount of seats federally to ethnic minorities and has a "two state solution" one state being Palestine the other being Israel (or even four, Israel, Gaza, Jerusalem, West Bank) underneath a Federal state.

That I think would be the most positive outcome. It would allow still Jews and Arabs to have some self-autonomy in the regions they control while working together under a larger unified secular civic project. Honestly right now Israel could end a lot of the strife by actually working with Palestinians to help the Palestinian economy develop and engage in cultural exchange (Palestinians are just into Israeli Psytrance as much as Israelis) and create some mutual good will.

The most obvious outcome of Israel and Palestine though as we all know that's coming is just the pushing of Palestinians into Syria, Jordan and Egypt and wholly annexing the West Bank while making life in Gaza intolerable. Israel holds all the cards and Likud has shown repeatedly (and how they came to power through assassinating Rabin) that they have no intention of acting in good faith towards Palestine.

The more annoying thing to me personally with Israel/Palestine, is especially how Israel totally interferes massively with the Democracy of the Anglosphere. What they did to Labour/Corbyn was fucking astonishing and should have been a massive wake up call to foreign interference in domestic Anglosphere politics, along with Australia's former Foreign Minister's expose into the Israeli Lobby claiming they had more access to the Prime Minister on Australian Middle Eastern foreign policy than even he did and we've all seen how US politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, will pretty much openly say they will sell out America and Americans for Israel.
Personally as been involved with campaigns, activism and canvassing and politics for pretty much 20 years now, Western Zionists, are easily the single most disingenuous smearing political actors I've ever, EVER come across.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Jan 25, 2021)

Donker said:


> The most positive outcome of Israel Palestine is a Federalised Secular state of Israel and Palestine, that ensures a certain amount of seats federally to ethnic minorities and has a "two state solution" one state being Palestine the other being Israel (or even four, Israel, Gaza, Jerusalem, West Bank) underneath a Federal state.
> 
> That I think would be the most positive outcome. It would allow still Jews and Arabs to have some self-autonomy in the regions they control while working together under a larger unified secular civic project. Honestly right now Israel could end a lot of the strife by actually working with Palestinians to help the Palestinian economy develop and engage in cultural exchange (Palestinians are just into Israeli Psytrance as much as Israelis) and create some mutual good will.
> 
> ...


A secular state is basically impossible because it requires Israel to repeal the Law of Return and the one thing almost all Israeli Jews can agree on is that the Law of Return should stay. It would also require Palestine to take a pragmatic approach to Israel and recognise that a Palestinian state ”from the river to the sea” ain't gonna happen.

As you said, the most likely option is another Nakba and more Israeli totally-not-war-crimes while Palestinians get screwed over both by Likudniks and by their own government which is more concerned about shooting rockets at civilians in Ascalon and Sderot than it is about securing peace and feeding its people.


----------



## Donker (Jan 25, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> A secular state is basically impossible because it requires Israel to repeal the Law of Return and the one thing almost all Israeli Jews can agree on is that the Law of Return should stay. It would also require Palestine to take a pragmatic approach to Israel and recognise that a Palestinian state ”from the river to the sea” ain't gonna happen.


Perhaps they could extend right to return to Palestinians, Druze and other ethnic minorities of the region as well. Yeah it gets in the way of "Secularism" but it doesn't have to be black and white. Again ain't happening though so no real point talking about it. I wish the Pro-Palestine side though came to the reality a two state solution is never happening and the West Bank for all intents and purposes is Gonzo.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Jan 25, 2021)

Donker said:


> Perhaps they could extend right to return to Palestinians, Druze and other ethnic minorities of the region as well. Yeah it gets in the way of "Secularism" but it doesn't have to be black and white. Again ain't happening though so no real point talking about it. I wish the Pro-Palestine side though came to the reality a two state solution is never happening and the West Bank for all intents and purposes is Gonzo.


The sad thing is that Palestine's only in the state it's in because its government refused to behave pragmatically. Israel offered the Pallies several peace plans and they declined, and as a result of people refusing to accept that ”from the river...” ain't happening, we effectively have a one-state solution and more oppression of Palestinians.


----------



## DJ Grelle (Jan 25, 2021)

Gaza should be annexed by Egypt, and the Westbank re-attached to Jordan. Syria should be allowed to annex Lebanon in return for giving up all claims to the Golan. Jerusalem should become an open city. In return, Israel should expel all non-jewish minorities (Druze, Arab Christians) who live in Ethnostate Israel. It should accept all Israeli settlers living in the Westbank (and work on a constitution). All Palestinians should gain the citizenship of the Arab nation they are currently a refugee in. The UN recognizes those borders.  For the rest just a tabula rasa.

Its an extremely insulting and rough solution, but I think this is one of the few solutions that will work long term. Because there are no solutions that are polite. The region is mired in perfidiousness and backstabbing. The bad blood runs too deep on both sides.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Jan 25, 2021)

DJ Grelle said:


> Syria should be allowed to annex Lebanon


*cries in Maronite*


----------



## DJ Grelle (Jan 25, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> *cries in Maronite*


Maronite-Alawite coalition against the sunni Arabs in a decidedly secular baathist syrian state would not be too bad.
It's not  _perfect_ but I think it would work.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Jan 25, 2021)

Oh boy, been a while since I started autistic arguments about Israel.


Marshal Mannerheim said:


> I was wondering where the thread for discussing Israel was.
> 
> In an ideal world the Kingdom of Jerusalem would never have fallen and there'd still be a Christian government ruling over the Holy Land. However, this isn't an ideal world and so we have to deal with the consequences of that.
> 
> ...


First of all, I don't get the point of "I'm a nationalist, but...", I doubt there are a lot of countries that weren't taken by force or were created through machinations of larger empires. There is no real reason to single out Israel.
* The idea of Zionism existed since the end of the 19th century. The Balfour decleration might have given some legitimacy to the idea of a jewish country but its roots were already put in place through massive amount of manpower and money invested in the land. Israel would have been created without British support (whatever support that is since the British were notorious for usually siding with the Muslims).
* I could have understood why you'd argue that countries shouldn't have interfered in the 1948 war for independence but arguing that the arabs should have gotten help from other world powers is completely hypocritical. Considering the Israelis approved of the UN's idea to splitting the country, which left them mainly a desert and completely indefensible borders, while the arabs had a temper tantrum and attacked, they got what they fucking deserved for refusing. 
* I agree, the problem is when people just ignore the Palestinians actions that just perpetuate their situation. Another annoying thing is organizations like the UN routinely ignore human rights infractions and single out Israel.
* First of all, all borders are artificial, barring some mountain or body of water, there is no clear line that singles the border of neighboring countries. Second of all, there is a massive fallacy here: Until Jews came to Israel it was


> “ ...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”


The jews made Israel habitable, unlike the previous occupants of the country. So they do have far more right to a territory than anyone else. Not to mention that the idea of legitimacy is 70+ years old by this point. You might as well argue about the USA stealing land from Indians.
* Yes people overuse the argument of anti-semitism as shield for criticism, but there are cases when there are clear double standards against Israel or arguments that are motivated by anti-semitic idea.

Also, the idea of a "Palestinian nationalism" is made-up. Pre-Israel the palestinians wanted to unite the country with Syria as "southern Syria". They failed and created the myth that they have a unique cultural identity and thus deserve their own country.


DJ Grelle said:


> Gaza should be annexed by Egypt


Israel tried that, Egypt refused because they know the Palestinians are trouble.


----------



## Doctor Placebo (Jan 25, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> The jews made Israel habitable, unlike the previous occupants of the country. So they do have far more right to a territory than anyone else. Not to mention that the idea of legitimacy is 70+ years old by this point.
> * Yes people overuse the argument of anti-semitism as shield for criticism, but there are cases when there are clear double standards against Israel or arguments that are motivated by anti-semitic idea.



Tell that to the Rhodesians and Afrikaners. Especially the Afrikaners. 400+ years on that continent. Still forced to abandon majority rule by international sanctions. And still considered "illegitimate" people who have no right to anything there by huge portions of the both the black population and western liberals to this day.

Overall, I think the Israelis have gotten along into the 21st century amazingly well for any supposed double standards against them.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Jan 27, 2021)

Doctor Placebo said:


> Tell that to the Rhodesians and Afrikaners. Especially the Afrikaners. 400+ years on that continent. Still forced to abandon majority rule by international sanctions. And still considered "illegitimate" people who have no right to anything there by huge portions of the both the black population and western liberals to this day.
> 
> Overall, I think the Israelis have gotten along into the 21st century amazingly well for any supposed double standards against them.


Indeed. If it's acceptable for Israelis to settle an Arab country then why shouldn't it be acceptable for South Africa to pull all the shit they pulled?

Put simply, what's the difference between the idea that Afrikaners are entitled to rule over South Africa and put ”the kaffir in his place” as the National Party said, and the idea that Israel should exist as a Jewish ethno nation-state and only allow Palestine to exist as a bunch of discontinuous enclaves, in the same way the South Africans set up bantustans?


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Jan 27, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> Indeed. If it's acceptable for Israelis to settle an Arab country then why shouldn't it be acceptable for South Africa to pull all the shit they pulled?
> 
> Put simply, what's the difference between the idea that Afrikaners are entitled to rule over South Africa and put ”the kaffir in his place” as the National Party said, and the idea that Israel should exist as a Jewish ethno nation-state and only allow Palestine to exist as a bunch of discontinuous enclaves, in the same way the South Africans set up bantustans?


The big difference is that the Afrikaners fucked up and lost the ability to rule their country. The world doesn't work with participation trophies where you get awarded a country for really deserving it. No, you need to take it away from others, usually bloodily. I don't know a lot of the history of the Afrikaners, but if they are the majority yet despite it they surrendered their autonomy then they are responsible for the state they are in.


----------



## Doctor Placebo (Jan 27, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> The big difference is that the Afrikaners fucked up and lost the ability to rule their country. The world doesn't work with participation trophies where you get awarded a country for really deserving it. No, you need to take it away from others, usually bloodily. I don't know a lot of the history of the Afrikaners, but if they are the majority yet despite it they surrendered their autonomy then they are responsible for the state they are in.


They aren't and weren't the majority, but in both cases international embargoes and external pressure were major factors in them losing control of their governments. Rhodesia in particular kept trying to negotiate a power sharing deal between the black majority and white minority, and the international forces backed by both the Soviet bloc AND the British commonwealth kept nixing their proposals for supposedly giving the white minority too much power, even though blacks still would've had the majority of representation in both the executive and legislative branches. The USA under Carter gave them the cold shoulder. Despite Rhodesia having a rich economy, they struggled against a universal trade embargo from day one, that only a few nations violated. After the Carnation Revolution in Portugal and South Africa agreed to embargo them in an act of feeding their friends to the alligator in hopes of being eaten last, Rhodesia lost their only sources of military supplies.

The Rhodesians were winning the Bush War before their supply lines dried up. That wasn't due to the actions of ZANU, ZAPU, or even the Soviets or red Chinese. It was because of western liberals, the same group that refused to accept any compromise the Rhodies put forward. Of course, instead of everyone locking arms and singing Kumbaya, the final result was genocide, not just against the white minority, but of the black minority political opposition to Mugabe too.

As for South Africa, their situation went similarly except that there was no all out war and the majority political party under the apartheid government decided to opt for appeasement of the international community pretty quickly once sanctions were threatened.

Western liberals have not treated Israel remotely the same. The US gives Israel boatloads of aid and supplies, often free of charge. Any country that wants to can trade and make economic agreements with Israel. Israel is in almost the opposite situation internationally as Rhodesia was. That it's _illegal_ for companies to boycott Israel in the US is testament to that. If they literally had to go up against the entire world, not just their home grown insurgents and hostile neighboring countries, but also full military support of their enemies by the communist bloc at its peak, and complete trade embargo by the bulk of NATO, the Israelis might find it a bit more difficult to maintain "their ability to rule their country" than it has been.


----------



## Gapernaper Rifle (Jan 28, 2021)

I don't get why anyone who doesn't live in the region gives a single fuck. Whether or not Israel exists or not has no impact on my life, or the life of most people in America. If they want to fight it out in the Middle East, great, just keep it over there. We shouldn't send anyone aid (especially since we basically fund both sides of the conflict) or boots for any reason. 


Fagatron said:


> If Israel was not there, it would probably be you guys being drawn into fights across Southern Europe. If there's one thing we should have learned about the Middle East by now; if they're not fighting among themselves, they're trying to invade Europe.


I couldn't give a fuck about Europe either.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Jan 28, 2021)

Doctor Placebo said:


> They aren't and weren't the majority, but in both cases international embargoes and external pressure were major factors in them losing control of their governments. Rhodesia in particular kept trying to negotiate a power sharing deal between the black majority and white minority, and the international forces backed by both the Soviet bloc AND the British commonwealth kept nixing their proposals for supposedly giving the white minority too much power, even though blacks still would've had the majority of representation in both the executive and legislative branches. The USA under Carter gave them the cold shoulder. Despite Rhodesia having a rich economy, they struggled against a universal trade embargo from day one, that only a few nations violated. After the Carnation Revolution in Portugal and South Africa agreed to embargo them in an act of feeding their friends to the alligator in hopes of being eaten last, Rhodesia lost their only sources of military supplies.
> 
> The Rhodesians were winning the Bush War before their supply lines dried up. That wasn't due to the actions of ZANU, ZAPU, or even the Soviets or red Chinese. It was because of western liberals, the same group that refused to accept any compromise the Rhodies put forward. Of course, instead of everyone locking arms and singing Kumbaya, the final result was genocide, not just against the white minority, but of the black minority political opposition to Mugabe too.
> 
> ...


If we're going to play Opression Olympics I can point to examples such as the UN decision that equates Zionism with Racism and the 1973 oil crisis as pretty decisive events. While I'm not so sure about how much the USA left went with its anti-Israel stance (though there are modern examples like the Somali congresswoman), the European left is very anti-Israel, especially the more radical commie factions. There is a lot of bad takes the Labour party in the UK did against Israel, or, a more radical example, the Baader Meinhof gang. Online it was easy to find armchair commies who go with: Israel = USA influence = Capitalism mindset around 10 years ago. 
Also usually when something happens with the palestinians you can be sure the "Jewish" old media will take the position against Israel. Such as arguing that getting rockets shot on civilian populace is acceptable and not a big deal. Or that the violent protest on the border are just "peaceful protests".

The relative stability Israel has now in regards to the Palestinians is mainly due to bad orange man becoming the focus of the media in the west, which also caused a peace with Muslim countries. Also I didn't include past wars with surrounding arabs countries, which had the Israelis routinely having a disadvantage in the number of troops.

Basically, it's not sunshine and roses for Israel and only the last decade had the left give up on taking it down (in the meantime at least).


----------



## Existential MD (Feb 1, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> If we're going to play Opression Olympics I can point to examples such as the UN decision that equates Zionism with Racism and the 1973 oil crisis as pretty decisive events. While I'm not so sure about how much the USA left went with its anti-Israel stance (though there are modern examples like the Somali congresswoman), the European left is very anti-Israel, especially the more radical commie factions. There is a lot of bad takes the Labour party in the UK did against Israel, or, a more radical example, the Baader Meinhof gang. Online it was easy to find armchair commies who go with: Israel = USA influence = Capitalism mindset around 10 years ago.
> Also usually when something happens with the palestinians you can be sure the "Jewish" old media will take the position against Israel. Such as arguing that getting rockets shot on civilian populace is acceptable and not a big deal. Or that the violent protest on the border are just "peaceful protests".
> 
> The relative stability Israel has now in regards to the Palestinians is mainly due to bad orange man becoming the focus of the media in the west, which also caused a peace with Muslim countries. Also I didn't include past wars with surrounding arabs countries, which had the Israelis routinely having a disadvantage in the number of troops.
> ...


Omar is right. Why, exactly, should the US subsidize israel with billions of dollars and a huge hit to our international standing? America is an outlier w/r/t Israel and it's not a good position.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 2, 2021)

ExistentialMedicine said:


> Omar is right. Why, exactly, should the US subsidize israel with billions of dollars and a huge hit to our international standing? America is an outlier w/r/t Israel and it's not a good position.


Indeed.

On the subject of Omar - and this is a pretty controversial view especially from a conservative - I think she got massively screwed over by the press. Israel and its lobby have a _lot_ of influence on how we in the West run things, which we would not accept from any other country. Heck, I don't think any other country, at any other point in time, has subsidised a foreign power which has the tools it needs to defend itself (Israeli nukes) and has previously attacked that country (USS _Liberty_). The fact that Ilhan Omar is a completely pants-on-head, tax-and-spend leftist doesn't mean we shouldn't defend her when she's obviously being attacked under false pretences.

Edit - don't politisperg before you have your coffee.


----------



## Miles (Feb 2, 2021)

Fuck the Middle East, they're a bunch of blip blops propagating destructive ideologies like some sort of parasite—acting like they are living in 600 CE.

It's a shame these kinds of people still exist in the 21ST CENTURY.


----------



## Elwood P. Dowd (Feb 2, 2021)

The Zionists have already lost in one sense. The old-school Zionists were all European (including Russia), though the Germans and Austrians predominated. But the Ashnekazi Jews are rapidly being outbred by the Sephardim, or the Jews from North Africa and the Middle East. This shift will be complete long before you need to worry about any sort of Muslim majority by births.

It is kind of like Anglicans setting up a Protestant homeland and being outbred by Baptists.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 2, 2021)

Siamon said:


> Fuck the Middle East, they're a bunch of blip blops propagating destructive ideologies like some sort of parasite—acting like they are living in 600 CE.
> 
> It's a shame these kinds of people still exist in the 21ST CENTURY.


You are Moviebob and I claim my 5 superior future credits.


----------



## Dread First (Feb 2, 2021)

I object to the formation of any state on purely religious grounds. Therefore, I fundamentally object to the existence of Israel and Pakistan.


----------



## Biden's Chosen (Feb 2, 2021)

Elwood P. Dowd said:


> The Zionists have already lost in one sense. The old-school Zionists were all European (including Russia), though the Germans and Austrians predominated. But the Ashnekazi Jews are rapidly being outbred by the Sephardim, or the Jews from North Africa and the Middle East. This shift will be complete long before you need to worry about any sort of Muslim majority by births.
> 
> It is kind of like Anglicans setting up a Protestant homeland and being outbred by Baptists.


It's not a big deal. We have no overbearing need to have genuine and honest democracy so as long as we maintain rule and get to sit and eat like effendi, it is alright if we're not the ones breeding like rabbits or other pests.


----------



## Elwood P. Dowd (Feb 2, 2021)

Biden's Chosen said:


> It's not a big deal. We have no overbearing need to have genuine and honest democracy so as long as we maintain rule and get to sit and eat like effendi, it is alright if we're not the ones breeding like rabbits or other pests.


As best I can tell Bibi is in power largely due to the voting power of the Sephardim-descended. (Maybe with second generation Russian Jews in there somewhere too. The ones who left the USSR and their their children.) Maybe I'm wrong, since data of this sort seems close to impossible to find, but it makes at least intuitive sense. The Muslims sure as hell aren't voting him in, and I doubt the Christians and Druze are, either.

Possibly this is why the largely Ashnekazi-descended Jews of the USA and Europe loathe him? And IIRC he just ignores them.

Hell, Jews from places like Yemen often arrived in Israel as late as the 1960s with a wifey # 2 in tow. Much to the horror of the then Asknekazi majority. They're basically ethnic and cultural Arabs who happen to have practiced Judaism (to their credit, stubbornly and in the face of some serious persecution) since time out of mind. But I can't imagine they're what Theordore Herzl or Ben-Gurion or Max Brod or whoever the others were had in mind as the majority population of this Zionist paradise, full of Kibbutzim or whatever nowadays extinct other nonsense they promulgated at the First Zionist Congress in 1897.


----------



## Biden's Chosen (Feb 2, 2021)

Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Hell, Jews from places like Yemen often arrived in Israel as late as the 1960s with a wifey # 2 in tow. Much to the horror of the then Asknekazi majority.





			https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/Does-Jewish-Law-Forbid-Polygamy.htm
		


It's more a problem of ashkenazi being cultural christians.


----------



## Super-Chevy454 (Feb 2, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> If we're going to play Opression Olympics I can point to examples such as the UN decision that equates Zionism with Racism and the 1973 oil crisis as pretty decisive events. While I'm not so sure about how much the USA left went with its anti-Israel stance (though there are modern examples like the Somali congresswoman), the European left is very anti-Israel, especially the more radical commie factions. There is a lot of bad takes the Labour party in the UK did against Israel, or, a more radical example, the Baader Meinhof gang. Online it was easy to find armchair commies who go with: Israel = USA influence = Capitalism mindset around 10 years ago.
> Also usually when something happens with the palestinians you can be sure the "Jewish" old media will take the position against Israel. Such as arguing that getting rockets shot on civilian populace is acceptable and not a big deal. Or that the violent protest on the border are just "peaceful protests".


And to think then Lenin and Trotsky had Jewish ancestry, I wonder what would have been their stances about Israel?


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Feb 2, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> Indeed.
> 
> On the subject of Omar - and this is a pretty controversial view especially from a conservative - I think she got massively screwed over by the press. Israel and its lobby have a _lot_ of influence on how we in the West run things, which we would not accept from any other country. Heck, I don't think any other country, at any other point in time, has subsidised a foreign power which has the tools it needs to defend itself (Israeli nukes) and has previously attacked that country (USS _Liberty_). The fact that Ilhan Omar is a completely pants-on-head, tax-and-spend leftist doesn't mean we shouldn't defend her when she's obviously being attacked under false pretences.
> 
> Edit - don't politisperg before you have your coffee.


I mentioned Omar due to her twits about Israel having "hypnotized the world" and other autistic remarks that's probably more beneficial to Israel since it removes the validity any legitimate criticisms. As for USA giving money to Israel, while there is some questionably legitimate use for things like joint research and Israel buying military supplies from the USA (thus having the money flow into the USA economy), I can't really fathom why the USA citizens don't do shit about their government giving free money to other countries and footing the bill for defence of European countries (which people keep forgetting).
I will argue that you don't use nukes to defend yourself from anything besides other countries genociding you (so terrorist organisations are still a threat), and that the USS Liberty is almost assuredly one of the many cases of friendly fires in history that happens in every war (particularly due to the non-existance of any sane justification for the act).



Super-Chevy454 said:


> And to think then Lenin and Trotsky had Jewish ancestry, I wonder what would have been their stances about Israel?


Probably go against it due to going against the end goal of global communism.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 2, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> I mentioned Omar due to her twits about Israel having "hypnotized the world" and other autistic remarks that's probably more beneficial to Israel since it removes the validity any legitimate criticisms. As for USA giving money to Israel, while there is some questionably legitimate use for things like joint research and Israel buying military supplies from the USA (thus having the money flow into the USA economy), I can't really fathom why the USA citizens don't do shit about their government giving free money to other countries and footing the bill for defence of European countries (which people keep forgetting).
> I will argue that you don't use nukes to defend yourself from anything besides other countries genociding you (so terrorist organisations are still a threat), and that the USS Liberty is almost assuredly one of the many cases of friendly fires in history that happens in every war (particularly due to the non-existance of any sane justification for the act).


1) while that's not the best way for Omar to phrase it I wouldn't say that Israel doesn't exert influence on the West.
2) yeah, and the argument for American support of Israel is that otherwise every Arab country would try and beat Israel's arse. The fact the Samson option exists means that that won't happen.
3) the Liberty was very obviously an American ship.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Feb 2, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> 1) while that's not the best way for Omar to phrase it I wouldn't say that Israel doesn't exert influence on the West.
> 2) yeah, and the argument for American support of Israel is that otherwise every Arab country would try and beat Israel's arse. The fact the Samson option exists means that that won't happen.
> 3) the Liberty was very obviously an American ship.


1) "Hypnotize" is some comic book villain shit, and every country exerts influence on other countries, whether it's the USA intervention in weaker countries or the EU/China forcing its will to change USA policies.
2) Wasn't it the evangelical thinking Israel needs to exist for the rapture? Anyways this idea is pretty old and it's more logical to support Israel as one of the more stable countries in the region.
3) That's true for every case of friendly fire. War isn't orderly and it's enough for a single misunderstanding to cause an incident. You need a logical explanation of why it wasn't a friendly fire since the risk of attacking the USA is fucking massive.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 2, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> Wasn't it the evangelical thinking Israel needs to exist for the rapture?


What


----------



## Hellbound Hellhound (Feb 2, 2021)

ExistentialMedicine said:


> Omar is right. Why, exactly, should the US subsidize israel with billions of dollars and a huge hit to our international standing? America is an outlier w/r/t Israel and it's not a good position.


The US hardly subsidizes Israel. The aid that the US gives to Israel accounts for about 1% of Israel's overall GDP, and most of the money (by treaty, if I recall) goes back into the US economy and helps to subsidize American industry. The US definitely benefits from the arrangement, as Israel boasts one of the most innovative economies per capita in the world, and fostering close economic/diplomatic ties with the country has made the US it's biggest customer.

If you really want to complain about wasteful US aid, it would be far more productive to look in the direction of Iraq and Afghanistan, both of whom receive more US aid than Israel does, yet unlike Israel, provide just about nothing in return.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 2, 2021)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> If you really want to complain about wasteful US aid, it would be far more productive to look in the direction of Iraq and Afghanistan, both of whom receive more US aid than Israel does, yet unlike Israel, provide just about nothing in return.


I don't see why the West should help Israel or Afghanistan when we have our own problems to look after.

Let them all beat each other to death over whether the Rashidun Caliphs were divinely guided by Allah or not, but we shouldn't be propping up Ba'athists or sheiks for the sake of oil money.


----------



## Imperial Citizen (Feb 2, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> I don't see why the West should help Israel or Afghanistan when we have our own problems to look after.
> 
> Let them all beat each other to death over whether the Rashidun Caliphs were divinely guided by Allah or not, but we shouldn't be propping up Ba'athists or sheiks for the sake of oil money.


Geopolitics: because another power will gladly step in. If there's some civil strife in a country, China would be more than happy to loan weapons/resources to a government, that government then fails to pay back and China gains more influence by gaining access to that country's resources. 

You are right that there are plenty of domestic problems to take care of, but major powers have to pay attention to their sphere of influence, which for the U.S. happens to be the entire world. It is in the best interest of the U.S. to contain any rising powers, because a loss of international power may make it impossible to handle domestic problems due to lack of trade, investment in military development. Basically, the power of the U.S. comes from its strong international dominance, that the game of international relations is often in the U.S.'s favor.

Therefore, what is the best way to maintain dominance? As a democracy, difficult to persuade mass mobilization of the military to voters. But get the local powers to do the fighting? And make it so that they have to buy U.S. manufactured weapons? That's been the win-win solution for the last 30 years. But now we are seeing that long-term funding and vast sums of funding is becoming unpopular with voters. So what could be the next strategy, exclusive drone warfare? Information warfare?


----------



## The best and greatest (Feb 2, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> I don't see why the West should help Israel or Afghanistan when we have our own problems to look after.
> 
> Let them all beat each other to death over whether the Rashidun Caliphs were divinely guided by Allah or not, but we shouldn't be propping up Ba'athists or sheiks for the sake of oil money.


Afghanistan is a strategically important place on the world map. Its central location within the Eurasian continent makes it an excellent staging point for American Incursions into its rivals territories(China, Iran) should it ever come to that. This is without considering whatever earthly wealth is tucked away in them there hills, boi!

Also Opium I guess?


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 2, 2021)

The best and greatest said:


> Also Opium I guess?


You are Queen Victoria and I claim my £5.


----------



## Jah Hates Kaffirs (Feb 2, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> I don't see why the West should help Israel or Afghanistan when we have our own problems to look after.
> 
> Let them all beat each other to death over whether the Rashidun Caliphs were divinely guided by Allah or not, but we shouldn't be propping up Ba'athists or sheiks for the sake of oil money.


Gas and precious metals speak louder then domestic problems to leaders.
No exceptions.


----------



## Hellbound Hellhound (Feb 2, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> I don't see why the West should help Israel or Afghanistan when we have our own problems to look after.


Problems that will only get worse if the West decides to become isolationist; especially with an expanding China and an increasingly desperate Russia. The West needs allies around the world, and the geographic position of Israel coupled with it's overall political ethos make it more than worth the cost of a relatively paltry sum of aid and a few treaties here and there.

We're not talking about a boots on the ground "nation building" scenario here (a la Afghanistan), because Israel is already an industrious nation that can more than support itself. The same cannot be said for most of it's neighbors, so the question then becomes one of which option you would prefer: a Middle East that more resembles Israel, or an Israel which more resembles the rest of the Middle East?


Marshal Mannerheim said:


> Let them all beat each other to death over whether the Rashidun Caliphs were divinely guided by Allah or not, but we shouldn't be propping up Ba'athists or sheiks for the sake of oil money.


I agree that the West shouldn't be supporting despotic, medieval theocracies which have no place in the 21st century, but the reality is that most of these countries are going to end up being proxies in a larger global struggle one way or another if efforts are not made to create the conditions where that cannot happen.

I'm not arguing that it should be the West which shoulders the burden of that effort, but at the same time I don't think we can afford to be indifferent to it. The fact remains that a prosperous and democratic Middle East would be a huge boon to the West, while a despotic and unstable Middle East can only serve to enable rogue powers like China.


----------



## Imperial Citizen (Feb 2, 2021)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> I'm not arguing that it should be the West which shoulders the burden of that effort, but at the same time I don't think we can afford to be indifferent to it. The fact remains that a prosperous and democratic Middle East would be a huge boon to the West, while a despotic and unstable Middle East can only serve to enable rogue powers like China.


The issue is how do you get a democratic Middle East? The Iranian Revolution and the Arab Spring show that there is a massive pushback to democratization/secularization. We know that the young Middle Easterners want to be connected with the world and be more secular, but how long will it be until they take power and will those in power allow them to take the reigns?


----------



## biggest big boy (Feb 2, 2021)

go israel. all my homies love israel


----------



## Protistology (Feb 2, 2021)

A "Jewish" state is a contradiction. G-d commands no Jewish state in Israel or elsewhere until the Mashiach comes and ends the Exile (Galut).



			https://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm
		







						Ten Questions to the Zionists
					

Ten Questions to the Zionists by Rabbi Weissmandl, Dean of Nitra Yeshiva



					www.nkusa.org
				












						Ketubot 111a
					

“They shall be taken to Babylonia and there they shall remain until the day that I recall them, said the Lord” (Jeremiah 27:22). Based on that verse, Rav...




					www.sefaria.org
				




How else do you explain that Israel hasn't known peace for even a single year since it's creation? Israel is a rebellion against G-d's will.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Feb 3, 2021)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> Israel is already an industrious nation that can more than support itself.


Then why does America need to pay it $3.8 billion a year?


----------



## FUTUREMAN (May 11, 2021)

Nigger, i just wanna grill.....
Like i hold little love for Israel, But by god is Palestine(not palestin*IANS *mind you) psychotic. Every time i bring this up in my place, people just chimp out and starts calling me a sympathiser or whatever the fuck. Even though i said absolutely nothing negative about the people(who're the true victims here).
Like Goddamn i don't wanna care about the antics of some pissy fags bitching over some useless land and old-ass buildings, but every time smth happens there everyone starts shoving it in my face, and give me shocked looks and smug mugs when i say smth slightly outside the norm.
Doesn't help that most people here would've hanged me for 'apostasy', so i'm just neutral over this subject.
My verdict is to just have a meteor slam onto Temple Mount already.


----------



## Cat Phuckers (May 11, 2021)

To preface this, people might consider me both a bit of a judeophile and an antisemite. I find Jewish culture quite interesting, but I see the Jewish people as a morally bankrupt and predatory group that others need to be careful around, though not a boogeyman or "root of all the world's problems" group that needs to be completely erased like many seem to think they are. These arguments aren't meant to be logistical, but an ideal that would likely only ever occur in a fantasy world.

I believe that the state of Israel is a very flawed nation that unnecessarily victimizes Palestinians, Arabs, and even other Jews. It's a mindless system that seems to have a very strong basis on fear of another Holocaust, yet its actions appear to fuel antisemitism and create reasons for people to vouch for another shoah. My opinion is it might be too late for the state of Israel to do what it needs to do to protect itself while also surrendering unnecessary and vile policies. The Israeli government should also protect religious and ethnic minorities (Jewish and other indigenous peoples), as well as recently-arriving Jewish olim who are discriminated against. There are far too many ethnic conflicts between Jewish groups that have yet to be reconciled. I worry that the Jewish people are intrinsically predispositioned towards victimizing others, so a good way to prevent them from doing so would be to weaken them so they are perpetually conscious of the potential consequences of any bold actions they may feel an urge to take. The Israeli government should surrender much of the land it has taken from surrounding nations, such as any political administration of majority Arab areas within Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, Mount Sinai. They should take a stand against Israeli settlements and destroy them by any means necessary, as they did with settlements in Gaza in 2005. It should be up to the people who currently live in these areas legally whether Jews should be welcomed.

The only concern I have with the policy I've proposed is that the Israelis have done so much wrong that they truly do face an existential threat, where even if they did attempt to enact a policy of coexistence with surrounding nations, said nations wouldn't be convinced and would simply destroy Israel. I sympathize with this concern, but I honestly couldn't blame the Arabs if they did decide to take the path of destroying Israel, and in the event they did do so I could hardly even be mad at them, even though the implications of them doing so would unfortunately almost certainly lead to an erasure of so much Jewish history and culture. The land of Israel has historically had a significant Jewish presence, and even though they've taken it back for the time being, I don't know if I see that as enough reason to warrant an overwhelmingly Jewish state in a historically multiethnic area. Israel was never entirely Jewish from what I understand, and if the Jewish people could coexist with the other peoples in the past, then I'm hoping they could go back to doing that.

TL;DR I think Israel should surrender their disproportionate power, cede their illegal and legal possession of land, and give ethnic and religious minorities more rights, and whatever happens to them as a result is probably justified, though I prefer the Jewish people aren't completely erased. Perhaps an Arab nation with a Constitutionally-protected Jewish minority could be ideal.

P.S. On a side note, outside the main scope of my post, which mainly pertains to Israel's relationship with non-Jewish peoples and surrounding nations, I also think that Israel should be more focused on getting golus to make aliyah to assure that if the nation of Israel ever does lose political power, the Jewish people who remain in the area of Israel still retain power in numbers, though I couldn't blame a Canadian Jew for instance for not wanting to move to a nation like Israel, where political, religious, ethnic, and inter-Jewish ethnic/religious conflict is quite a big problem.

EDIT: Reformatted because somehow people can't tell one paragraph apart from the next unless I put two spaces between them instead of just one, bad habit of mine.


----------



## Maurice Caine (May 11, 2021)

Cat Phuckers said:


> To preface this, people might consider me both a bit of a judeophile and an antisemite. I find Jewish culture quite interesting, but I see the Jewish people as a morally bankrupt and predatory group that others need to be careful around, though not a boogeyman or "root of all the world's problems" group that needs to be completely erased like many seem to think they are. These arguments aren't meant to be logistical, but an ideal that would likely only ever occur in a fantasy world.
> I believe that the state of Israel is a very flawed nation that unnecessarily victimizes Palestinians, Arabs, and even other Jews. It's a mindless system that seems to have a very strong basis on fear of another Holocaust, yet its actions appear to fuel antisemitism and create reasons for people to vouch for another shoah. My opinion is it might be too late for the state of Israel to do what it needs to do to protect itself while also surrendering unnecessary and vile policies. The Israeli government should also protect religious and ethnic minorities (Jewish and other indigenous peoples), as well as recently-arriving Jewish olim who are discriminated against. There are far too many ethnic conflicts between Jewish groups that have yet to be reconciled. I worry that the Jewish people are intrinsically predispositioned towards victimizing others, so a good way to prevent them from doing so would be to weaken them so they are perpetually conscious of the potential consequences of any bold actions they may feel an urge to take. The Israeli government should surrender much of the land it has taken from surrounding nations, such as any political administration of majority Arab areas within Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, Mount Sinai. They should take a stand against Israeli settlements and destroy them by any means necessary, as they did with settlements in Gaza in 2005. It should be up to the people who currently live in these areas legally whether Jews should be welcomed.
> The only concern I have with the policy I've proposed is that the Israelis have done so much wrong that they truly do face an existential threat, where even if they did attempt to enact a policy of coexistence with surrounding nations, said nations wouldn't be convinced and would simply destroy Israel. I sympathize with this concern, but I honestly couldn't blame the Arabs if they did decide to take the path of destroying Israel, and in the event they did do so I could hardly even be mad at them, even though the implications of them doing so would unfortunately almost certainly lead to an erasure of so much Jewish history and culture. The land of Israel has historically had a significant Jewish presence, and even though they've taken it back for the time being, I don't know if I see that as enough reason to warrant an overwhelmingly Jewish state in a historically multiethnic area. Israel was never entirely Jewish from what I understand, and if the Jewish people could coexist with the other peoples in the past, then I'm hoping they could go back to doing that.
> TL;DR I think Israel should surrender their disproportionate power, cede their illegal and legal possession of land, and give ethnic and religious minorities more rights, and whatever happens to them as a result is probably justified, though I prefer the Jewish people aren't completely erased. Perhaps an Arab nation with a Constitutionally-protected Jewish minority could be ideal.
> P.S. On a side note, outside the main scope of my post, which mainly pertains to Israel's relationship with non-Jewish peoples and surrounding nations, I also think that Israel should be more focused on getting golus to make aliyah to assure that if the nation of Israel ever does lose political power, the Jewish people who remain in the area of Israel still retain power in numbers, though I couldn't blame a Canadian Jew for instance for not wanting to move to a nation like Israel, where political, religious, ethnic, and inter-Jewish ethnic/religious conflict is quite a big problem.


----------



## Cat Phuckers (May 11, 2021)

Maurice Caine said:


> View attachment 2161656


Yes. I write le politigram-tier essays all the time, and I think the prompt in the thread's OP warrants my unrelenting spergery.


----------



## Maurice Caine (May 11, 2021)

Cat Phuckers said:


> Yes. I write le politigram-tier essays all the time, and I think the prompt in the thread's OP warrants my unrelenting spergery.


Learn how to format, your text reads like Google's terms of service


----------



## Cabelaz (May 11, 2021)

SandLand will remain uncivilized for all eternity, how can you expect them to form democratic governments and prosperous industry if they can't even get clean water?

Let the Jews have their little slice of hell. They gave us Adam Sandler after all.


----------



## Seminal Ointments Lain (May 18, 2021)

How many of these threads do we need?


----------



## Kosher Snake (Aug 18, 2021)

Cat Phuckers said:


> TL;DR I think Israel should surrender their disproportionate power, cede their illegal and legal possession of land, and give ethnic and religious minorities more rights, and whatever happens to them as a result is probably justified, though I prefer the Jewish people aren't completely erased. Perhaps an Arab nation with a Constitutionally-protected Jewish minority could be ideal.


An Arab nation that respects non-Muslims and non-Arabs? That's never gonna happen.

Islam was always about this delusion about taking over the world, that's why the Caliiphate conquests happened. Also, Palestinians are just Arabs claiming to descend from the same people as Goliath(which they don't)


Protistology said:


> A "Jewish" state is a contradiction. G-d commands no Jewish state in Israel or elsewhere until the Mashiach comes and ends the Exile (Galut).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


your entire point is moot for using VICE as a source


----------



## Cat Phuckers (Aug 18, 2021)

Kosher Snake said:


> An Arab nation that respects non-Muslims and non-Arabs? That's never gonna happen.


Look at the history of the Maghreb, especially Morocco. Moroccan Jews lived in their own communities within Arab cities, but worked as bankers and money changers, oftentimes accumulating quite a bit of wealth through charging interest. El Glaoui, the Pasha of Marrakesh, had a well-respected Jewish secretary. The same sort of history played out in countries in the Middle East like Syria, where Jews enjoyed a privileged life right up until the foundation of the state of Israel. Ironically, these nations that were you claim had no respect for Jews served as a refuge from the Reconquista for the longest time and allowed Jews to live wealthy lives. Since the establishment of Israel, most Jews in the Arab world were ejected or chose to make aliyah, and I don't know if things could ever go back to the way they were, but there was a very long and well-documented period in which Jews and Arabs got along.
P.S. Arab Muslims also have a long history of respecting Christians, especially in Levantine nations like Syria, Palestine, and Lebanon, and both Syria and Lebanon still have well-established, and very wealthy Christian populations, whereas everybody in Palestine is equally disadvantaged due to the occupation. If you think making religious minorities pay jizya and occasionally barring them from civil service and government positions is oppression, then you're simply deluded.


----------



## celebrityskin (Aug 18, 2021)

Protistology said:


> A "Jewish" state is a contradiction. G-d commands no Jewish state in Israel or elsewhere until the Mashiach comes and ends the Exile (Galut).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you ever met a religious Orthodox Jew living in Israel? They're the most nationalistic *by FAR *lol


----------



## Angry Canadian (Aug 18, 2021)

No, Israel doesn't deserve to exist, for the same reason Poland doesn't deserve to exist, for the same reason it's insane for a bunch of Mexicans to demand Texas back, for the same reason it's insane to have a "decolonize" movement here in Canada.  It's insane.  The physical land of Israel was conquered and taken. I don't need any other reason than this (even if plenty exist) to have this opinion.
Being able to kvetch and oy vey for 2000 years until the First European civil war, and being able to puppetmaster Woodrow Wilson into the Balfour Declaration (The same Woodrow Wilson who gave women the right to vote and called the "Christmas Congress" to "vote" on the ratification of the federal reserve... essentially giving the Rothschild's executive control over the American economy...) do the Jews claim Israel.

Palestine was under British control prior to the conclusion of the 1st world war, and it was only through scheming and prolonging the first world war, did the covetous jew finally get his chilly fingers on the land.   Losers shouldn't be able to take back what no longer belongs to them, unless it's by force. 

Israel hasn't belonged to the jews since Hadrian decimated Judea.  Imagine making enemies of practically the entire oil rich middle east to simp for jews who have basically no oil in Israel compared to the rest of the region.  Well that's just quacking crazy.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 18, 2021)

Angry Canadian said:


> No, Israel doesn't deserve to exist, for the same reason Poland doesn't deserve to exist, for the same reason it's insane for a bunch of Mexicans to demand Texas back, for the same reason it's insane to have a "decolonize" movement here in Canada.  It's insane.  The physical land of Israel was conquered and taken. I don't need any other reason than this (even if plenty exist) to have this opinion.
> Being able to kvetch and oy vey for 2000 years until the First European civil war, and being able to puppetmaster Woodrow Wilson into the Balfour Declaration (The same Woodrow Wilson who gave women the right to vote and called the "Christmas Congress" to "vote" on the ratification of the federal reserve... essentially giving the Rothschild's executive control over the American economy...) do the Jews claim Israel.
> 
> Palestine was under British control prior to the conclusion of the 1st world war, and it was only through scheming and prolonging the first world war, did the covetous jew finally get his chilly fingers on the land.   Losers shouldn't be able to take back what no longer belongs to them, unless it's by force.
> ...


The problem with your argument that there was no one actually living in Israel when the Jews came besides few cities and resident goat fuckers. Only after the Jews actually created something resembling a country suddenly arabs "remembere" that this was their land all along.
Besides that Israelis actually fought to keep their country, as opposed to modern western countries whose citizens would rather let niggers/arabs fuck their daugher than actually fight back against the invasion.


----------



## Angry Canadian (Aug 18, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> The problem with your argument that there was no one actually living in Israel when the Jews came besides few cities and resident goat fuckers. Only after the Jews actually created something resembling a country suddenly arabs "remembere" that this was their land all along.
> Besides that Israelis actually fought to keep their country, as opposed to modern western countries whose citizens would rather let niggers/arabs fuck their daugher than actually fight back against the invasion.


If "no one was really living there" why has it taken 70 years for Palestinian territory to shrink to the levels it is today from the 40s when Israel was refounded?




Surely if there was nothing but a few scattered goatfuckers, expansion and colonization wouldn't have taken so long and there wouldn't have been nearly as many purges.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 18, 2021)

Angry Canadian said:


> If "no one was really living there" why has it taken 70 years for Palestinian territory to shrink to the levels it is today from the 40s when Israel was refounded?
> View attachment 2456724
> Surely if there was nothing but a few scattered goatfuckers, expansion and colonization wouldn't have taken so long and there wouldn't have been nearly as many purges.


Because this image was made by the people who use wikipedia as source. Jews bought/took over a fucktone of land before the UN decleration and were only really limited by numbers, while the innumerable palestinian bedouins who arrived in Israel just squatted in random places and spun tales about their families living there for 1000 years. 
Palestinians losing land afterwards is what you fucking get for trying to conquer a country and failing.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Aug 19, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> there was no one actually living in Israel when the Jews came


The British government would disagree with you. From their 1920 report:


> There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants. *The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.* In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil.


----------



## Faket0Fake (Aug 19, 2021)

Angry Canadian said:


> If "no one was really living there" why has it taken 70 years for Palestinian territory to shrink to the levels it is today from the 40s when Israel was refounded?
> View attachment 2456724
> Surely if there was nothing but a few scattered goatfuckers, expansion and colonization wouldn't have taken so long and there wouldn't have been nearly as many purges.



In 1946 it was still British Palestine as it had been since the 1920's during the post World War I carving up of Ottoman territory creating new states full of tribes that hate each other while awarding most of it to the Arabs...Also other Arabs who took over from the first Arabs the British and French put there in the case of Saudi Arabia. Also the southern part of the map is almost entirely a desert with nothing in it so to call that much of a population is an exaggeration, from most sources in the British forces occupying it at the time and consequently the UN when the British gave up fighting paramilitaries and told the UN to deal with it, Jews made up about 30% of the population. !949 shows what people regard as borders but are actually ceasefire lines created when several new Arab countries plus Egypt intervened in a civil war between Jewish and Arab militia after Israel declared independence. No border for an independent Palestine has ever existed, there are no leaders of any independent Palestine before or after 1946. The Arabs were offered more land than they claim now as we see on the UN partition plan, the Israeli side actually signed it as they were desperate for the state of Israel to be recognized but the Arab side refused backed by several new Arab countries and Egypt. They promised to turn the land into a "river of blood" in their message to the UN. 


When the ceasefire happened in 1949 what we call the West Bank was occupied by Jordanian forces who claimed it as their territory and Egypt occupied Gaza, this was the case until the Six Day War in 1967 when Jordan was pushed out the West Bank and Egypt lost Gaza and much of the Sinai desert (later regained Sinai in a peace agreement). Between 1949 and 1967 no attempt was ever made to create a Palestinian state in any of these territories in fact most of the Arabs who lived in those areas ended up in refugee camps in Jordan that were run much like concentration camps and replaced by Jordanians in the West Bank. The Palestinian Charter calling for the establishment of an independent Palestine didn't even include either the West Bank or Gaza in their claims as they do now. They only laid claim to the lands Jews occupied as Gaza was Egypt and the West Bank Jordan according to them. If it was Palestine then why did these other countries occupy it until pushed out and not give it to a Palestinian people who apparently existed? Maybe it was because it was all about kicking the Jews back out and creating more land for the Arabs even though they already got 97% of the land from the former Ottoman land, why is this tiny slither of land that is mostly an empty desert so important to Arabs? If it is important then why didn't they make attempts to establish a state when they had control of it? Why did they choose war when peace was on the table with a land split? If anything they could have destroyed the Jewish paramilitaries there and then, they had Soviet Support for the most part and the US was not supplying them at this point, they got most of their weapons bought via Eastern European countries sympathetic to their cause and disillusioned with Communism and the Soviets. One big reason why they didn't go on and occupy all the land before a ceasefire is lots of political arguments on how to carve that land up between them. 

Israel later agreed to move out of Gaza only keeping a border force in a shared border with Egypt at the former's request. During the time they had occupied Gaza they built a lot of infrastructure and economy in the area including a number of plantations and greenhouses that they hoped would have Gaza get a good start and allow the markets to keep running. The first thing that happened when Israel pulled out was they burned down all the things left by Israel for them, rioted and fired hundreds of rockets into Israel. They do not want peace or a stable state by any stretch of the imagination. They have never once tried to attain it except when trying to gain territory from Israel itself. It's just territorial gains changed over the years. 

The chance for an independent Palestine is long gone and they need to accept it. Stop funding the two feuding terrorist groups in Gaza and the West Bank and make peace. Stop trying to gain the one piece of territory that wasn't handed over to you in return for all your oil and helping to break down the Ottoman Empire for the British. The main reason they go with politics, sympathy grabbing and terrorist insurgencies is they lost the ability to win militarily long ago. If you still believe this fairy tale of this super army of Jews with tanks appearing as is from nowhere after WWII and rolling through the country while kicking people out their homes then you're really dumb and unaware of history. All this #FreePalestine propaganda funded by Arab oil money need to stop. 

Just be good little Americans and support your fellow circumsized Jew as the covenant commands, a land of genital mutilation perfection free of Arabs who in less than 80 years have managed to fuck up every country they were given except maybe Saudi Arabia that exists as a rich land of primitive Sharia law. But the Sauds did kick the original Arabians out who the British installed so maybe they wasn't a bunch of brainless puppets like the rest.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 19, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> The British government would disagree with you. From their 1920 report:


How exactly? The report itself agrees with what I said that the land was desolate and that was just about the time when Zionism kicked off as and ideology and a large amount of people immigrated. And at least from a cursory search it just so happens that Muslim population exploded around the same time Zionism became popular.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Aug 19, 2021)

In any case, 700,000 people can make up a nation - there were only 200,000 more Estonians at the time and nobody denies that Estonians are a nation with a right to their own nation state.


wtfNeedSignUp said:


> a large amount of [Jewish] people immigrated


Which proves that they have no right to a state there.

Jews have as much of a right to a state in Palestine as Pakistanis have a right to a state in Bradford.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 19, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> In any case, 700,000 people can make up a nation - there were only 200,000 more Estonians at the time and nobody denies that Estonians are a nation with a right to their own nation state.


Maybe if they actually consider themselves as a single ethnic identity, but the arabs that actually resided in Israel at that time were content with the Ottoman/British boot on their back, and once release from the british regime was possible they immeditely called for Palestine to be joined with Syria (rather than have their own country).


Marshal Mannerheim said:


> Which proves that they have no right to a state there.
> 
> Jews have as much of a right to a state in Palestine as Pakistanis have a right to a state in Bradford.


Besides the question of when exactly is this kind of nation building (especially when the nation being built is a barren wasteland) ceased to be legitimate (or do you consider the USA as also illegitimate?), by your own logic the Palestinians also doesn't deserve to live in Israel since it was ruled by other parties. Though if we're talking getting a nation by the right of conquest then Israel earned it.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Aug 19, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> the Palestinians also doesn't deserve to live in Israel since it was ruled by other parties


Palestinian Arabs have been in Israel a lot longer than Jews have.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 20, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> Palestinian Arabs have been in Israel a lot longer than Jews have.


And they got their own UN borders, if they didn't attack Israel they'd have kept their land. Especially that if you actually know the local geography the Jews got a fucking desert, while the Palestinians got the actual fertile land.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Aug 20, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> the Jews got a fucking desert


And why should they have got that?

Ashkenazi Jews have _no right_ to Palestine. They immigrated to Palestine. They are not indigenous to it. They have _no right_ to a state there in the same way Pakistanis have no right to a state in the UK.


----------



## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 20, 2021)

Marshal Mannerheim said:


> And why should they have got that?
> 
> Ashkenazi Jews have _no right_ to Palestine. They immigrated to Palestine. They are not indigenous to it. They have _no right_ to a state there in the same way Pakistanis have no right to a state in the UK.


The only people who use the newspeak term "indigenous" are faggots who don't know their history. Do you consider every American to be a hostile entity in the USA because they also emigrated there after the "indigenous" indians, or is there some sort of magic amount of time which afterwards a population become indigenous? And why should arabs have the right to the country if there is an "indigenous" jewish and christian populations who also lived there and didn't expand or cultivate their living area, just because they were a relative minority? Is every unclaimed piece of land around you in 100 miles belongs to you just because you said so, and what if you sell this piece of land?

Also you keep bringing up Pakis in bongland, maybe do something about fixing your shitty country rather than divert your aggressions towards a different country in a great fashion of right winged cucks.


----------



## Marshal Mannerheim (Aug 20, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> Also you keep bringing up Pakis in bongland, maybe do something about fixing your shitty country rather than divert your aggressions towards a different country in a great fashion of right winged cucks.


They are in the UK, but aren't native to the UK, have no right to a state in the UK and ideally wouldn't be in the UK. The same is true about Zionist settlers in Palestine.


----------



## its hip to fuck bees (Aug 20, 2021)

Jesus is cool and all, and it would be a shame for all the history there, but it'd probably be better to turn it into a glass parking lot with the rest of the middle east


----------



## chris driver (Aug 22, 2021)

as one of the voting options state: It can stay, but it needs some serious changes.
no more oppression to palestine, no more (extreme) xenophobia and isolationism, and a more well-rounded, progressive system must be implemented to it, both politically, socially and culturally.

they should really come up to the 21st century, and to have some basic rights and qualities established as a modern (open) democratic nation, because they NEED to behave like a modern democratic nation, and not as an isolated kingdom from the 1500's...

other than that, we're good.


----------



## Internet War Criminal (Aug 22, 2021)

Angry Canadian said:


> If "no one was really living there" why has it taken 70 years for Palestinian territory to shrink to the levels it is today from the 40s when Israel was refounded?


That's a bullshit map. Stop using infographics and think you learned something from them. 



wtfNeedSignUp said:


> The only people who use the newspeak term "indigenous" are faggots who don't know their history.


Exactly

and then they complain that Jews are not "indigenous" the region when sandniggers only go out of Saudi Arabia and swarmed the Middle-East and North Africa after Islam came out. 

All Arabs back to Saudi Arabia.


----------

