# How to save the western world



## mr.moon1488 (Aug 22, 2022)

Pretty much thread title.  I know that's not really a deep thot, but I'm curious to hear what people think should be the course of action for the person living in the nu-west who wants to restore things to at least some semblance of normalcy. 


Personally, I don't really see anything outside of a hard collapse and restart actually breaking the status quo.  Obviously, Democracies and Republics aren't the answer.  The state of the modern west is sufficiently self-evident to this end.  Probably the biggest Jewish scam in history has been to brainwash the general population into thinking that they can overthrow their oppressors, or resist hostile invasion by simply putting a blot of ink on a piece of paper and calling it a vote.  Of course, this will never accomplish anything, but the allure of having your will be done without having to put in any real sacrifice into fulfilling your will is simply too seductive of a lie for any man to resist it fully.  One could very shallowly digress into theology and find the self-apparent Luciferian parallels between the sinful side of human nature and democracy.  That aside, however, it is abundantly clear that most people won't actually change their collectively self-destructive ways in the west until they've been forced to do so by some cataclysmic event that all at once, puts them between the binary choices of either being wiped off the face of the Earth or rejecting the current western dogma and returning to a state at which the west had at least some degree of homeostasis.


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

Embrace the end of all things. It is out of nothing we came, and into nothing we shall go. Mankind's twilight years have nearly passed, and the reckoning awaits.

Its only once you've lost everything that you are truly free.


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## mr.moon1488 (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> Embrace the end all things. It is out of nothing we came, and into nothing we shall go. Mankind's twilight years have nearly passed, and the reckoning awaits.
> 
> Its only once you've lost everything that you are truly free.


I'd agree with the idea that there will be an end to all things on this Earth, but I reject the idea that one should accept this end.  The lord spent his last moments on the cross preaching salvation.  It does in my opinion come directly back to "De die autem illa et hora nemo scit, neque angeli caelorum, nisi solus Pater" ( But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only).  One should prepare for it, but one should never simply give in.


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## Sad Crusader (Aug 22, 2022)

You let it die, so you can grow a new tree from the same tree. There's no saving this shit show nor the people who allowed it.


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## byuu (Aug 22, 2022)

Imagine being so mad about retarded trannies or whatever that you want your whole country to burn down.


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## The Mass Shooter Ron Soye (Aug 22, 2022)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_and_hold


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## Otterly (Aug 22, 2022)

The only positive way out will be space travel and exploration. We need a new frontier as a species. 
 -  The third world will continue to breed like rabbits, and cause untold ecological destruction as they eat their way out of their own ecosystems and move into Europe. I have no idea how you solve that humanely. Education was supposed to be the answer but that hasn’t worked.
- we are polluting our water land and air with things that may takes tens of thousands of years to break down
-this hideous anti human _thing_ of a trans humanist movement has taken root.  
   I do t know what we do. Things won’t magically go back to good, it’s either some amazing new thing that happens or a very bad one.


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

1. Log out of kiwi farms dot net
2. Never return
3. Clean your damn room
4. Take a shower, wash your benis
5. Get a haircut
6. And a job application
7. You damn hippie

Western civilization will take care of itself from there

Also consider picking up a history book or three so you can recognize that societies as materially and culturally as productive as the West is are not the ones that collapse

When a third of the population is NEETs dependent on the State for bread like the people who ramble on about the imminent, inevitable collapse of our dead nigger society are, then we can talk


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## Kermit Jizz (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> When a third of the population is NEETs dependent on the State for bread


Well we're already up to 13%


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

mr.moon1488 said:


> I'd agree with the idea that there will be an end to all things on this Earth, but I reject the idea that one should accept this end.  The lord spent his last moments on the cross preaching salvation.  It does in my opinion come directly back to "De die autem illa et hora nemo scit, neque angeli caelorum, nisi solus Pater" ( But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only).  One should prepare for it, but one should never simply give in.


Acceptance to some extent or another is part of the preparation process, though I suppose there's a fine line between the kind of "lay down and die" acceptance and the "there's just nothing that can be done in this situation" kind of acceptance.

The thing with society, and especially modern day society, is that its not actually a real, tangible thing. It doesn't actually exist, its just a series of written, verbal, or unspoken agreements. It requires people to have a lot of presumptions in order for it to function at all. People have to believe in it. Even if they believe society is corrupt and shitty and evil, they still believe the system works to some extent, because its still operating and able to accomplish some of its objectives. Apathy is the best and most capable weapon available to the common populace. No system, no matter how corrupt, evil or automated, can survive without the confidence of its subjects. When people stop believing that a society will be able to impose order, on a wide scale, that is the exact point that it dies at.

The people in charge want you to give up, yes, but they want you to give up and obey. Not give up and fall away from them and do your own thing damn the consequences. When I say to embrace the end, its the latter I mean. People should not be afraid to see it all fall apart. Its a natural process, and fully necessary for something better to come along after that (however slim the chances of such a thing may be). The more people who peel off, and especially the more capable people who do so, the weaker the whole thing becomes, and the closer that end draws. Attrition is the name of the game, and there are many more of us than there are of them. It should be encouraged at every opportunity.


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## Shpongoolio Trismegistus (Aug 22, 2022)

We're doing fine.

Go read a history of political philosophy, and you'll see we're doing fine. None of this is abnormal, it's all happened before, it'll happen again.


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

Kermit Jizz said:


> Well we're already up to 13%


But do they take 52% of the bread


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## White_N (Aug 22, 2022)

I know it's hard and scary, but you need to have sex with wh*te w*men.


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## Uriah (Aug 22, 2022)

Western civilization is only a vassal for the Holy Ghost; it will not always exist, and that's fine.


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

Shpongoolio Trismegistus said:


> We're doing fine.
> 
> Go read a history of political philosophy, and you'll see we're doing fine. None of this is abnormal, it's all happened before, it'll happen again.


While I wouldn't call the current _state_ of things fine, I agree. The United States in particular is entering the trough of a 10 year financial, 50 year economic, and 80 year cultural cycle. Things are going to break colossally, and we will have to face disaster in the form of specific crises. Some of these crises are in the offing, and some of them are right in front of us and seem unsolvable (like our current political polarization).

It will not destroy the West. The strength of America (currently the strongest Western power, likely to remain so) lies in our peculiar bipolar nature. We are almost always societally split to the breaking point on some issue, and we ignore all advice and do the most idiotic thing in the end, which works


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> Also consider picking up a history book or three so you can recognize that societies as materially and culturally as productive as the West is are not the ones that collapse





Shpongoolio Trismegistus said:


> We're doing fine.
> 
> Go read a history of political philosophy, and you'll see we're doing fine. None of this is abnormal, it's all happened before, it'll happen again.





the fall of man said:


> It will not destroy the West. The strength of America (currently the strongest Western power, likely to remain so) lies in our peculiar bipolar nature. We are almost always societally split to the breaking point on some issue, and we ignore all advice and do the most idiotic thing in the end, which works


This is pretty much identical to the common drug addict asserting that, since they have yet to overdose, there is no danger in their habit. 



draggs said:


> When a third of the population is NEETs dependent on the State for bread like the people who ramble on about the imminent, inevitable collapse of our dead nigger society are, then we can talk


The presence of these people at all, and the system's inability to remove them, is an indicator that its health is failing. Even many so-called productive people work jobs that are useless and produce nothing of value. Large swathes of society are simply not beneficial in any way, even you yourself admit this. There's a word for that phenomena: cancer.


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## gang weeder (Aug 22, 2022)

> Personally, I don't really see anything outside of a hard collapse and restart actually breaking the status quo. Obviously, Democracies and Republics aren't the answer.



You pretty much answered the question here. These trends are pretty much forces of nature outside of anyone's control. All we can do is ride it out and hope that something better comes after.


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## Certified_Autist (Aug 22, 2022)

I am aware that all of the below is MUCH easier said than done, but this is the short list of what I think is neccesary to fix the West.


Current financial system is a clusterfuck.
>End fractional reserve banking, end fiat currency. Return to financial system based on actual physical assets.

Modern Prussian-derived education system designed to churn out midwit drones.
>Reform education systems so that they actually educate people. Teach students "how" to think crtitically, not merely "what" to think. 

Rates of depression, loneliness, mental illness, etc, are skyrocketing
>This may sound weird, but I think some degree of religiousity/spirituality should be officially encouraged, both for social cohesion and for individual mental health. 

Declining birthrates combined with growing epidemic of lonely single adults
>Complete cultural reset- discourage male/female hypergamy, fix male/female gender relations, discourage LGBT, and encourage stable relationships that lead to reproduction.

People have no pride in their nation's history, either out of ignorance of said history or outright hatred of said history
>In line with the cultural reset, promote western culture postively in mass media, to give people a sense of pride in their heritage.

High-trust communities increasingly becoming thing of the past, IQ is falling and crime is increasing
>A country is the sum of its people. So stop importing retarded 3rd worlders, and if possible, incentivize the ones already here to leave.

Labor shortage combined with shortage of good jobs
>In line with ending migration/immigration, make it impossible to import foreign workers so that companies must hire Westerners, or train Westerners if there aren't enough qualified workers. This will increase wages due to laws of supply and demand. 

Merely attempting to implement all of the above isn't going to happen without major political reform. So I unfortunately agree with the doomers that positive change will not happen until the current system collapses or is severely weakened.


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## Wuornos (Aug 22, 2022)

Nothing can be done. It's too late. White "men" have spent half a century scapegoating and vilifying women and mothers. Now you're dying out because women hate you and are going asexual, gay or screwing non-white men.

You get what you deserve...


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> This is pretty much identical to the common drug addict asserting that, since they have yet to overdose, there is no danger in their habit.


It's not possible to overdose on mary jane 


> The presence of these people at all, and the system's inability to remove them, is an indicator that its health is failing. Even many so-called productive people work jobs that are useless and produce nothing of value. Large swathes of society are simply not beneficial in any way, even you yourself admit this. There's a word for that phenomena: cancer.


I admit no such thing of course

I dont recognize any correlation between reality and your opinions when I venture out into this dead nigger world


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> It's not possible to overdose on mary jane


I beg to differ, I've seen a lot of stoners troon out. Seems to me there's a correlation.



draggs said:


> I admit no such thing of course


I would think your contempt for these people admits that you'd at least rather they not be a part of the society you'd prefer to live in. Most people feel this way, I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that.



draggs said:


> I dont recognize any correlation between reality and your opinions when I venture out into this dead nigger world


The feeling is very strongly mutual.


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> I beg to differ, I've seen a lot of stoners troon out. Seems to me there's a correlation.


Cutting off your dick isnt overdosing 


> I would think your contempt for these people admits that you'd at least rather they not be a part of the society you'd prefer to live in. Most people feel this way, I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that.


I dont have preconditions for living in muh society 

Except commies they can get the fuck out 

Indulging in such contempt and projecting it onto others as a defense mechanism is a luxury only members of a not dead nigger society can afford


> The feeling is very strongly mutual.


Im right and youre wrong doe


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> I dont have preconditions for living in muh society


A society with no preconditions is inherently doomed, I'd go as far to argue it doesn't even really fit the conventional definition of a society at all. And besides this is nonsense anyway, everyone has at least some set of standards. You don't strike me as one of those defund the police types.



draggs said:


> Indulging in such contempt and projecting it onto others as a defense mechanism is a luxury only members of a not dead nigger society can afford





draggs said:


> *When a third of the population is NEETs dependent on the State for bread like the people who ramble on about the imminent, inevitable collapse of our dead nigger society are, then we can talk*


I don't even really understand how you can claim there's no contempt there. You will have to elaborate on this.


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> A society with no preconditions is inherently doomed, I'd go as far to argue it doesn't even really fit the conventional definition of a society at all. And besides this is nonsense anyway, everyone has at least some set of standards. You don't strike me as one of those defund the police types.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even really understand how you can claim there's no contempt there. You will have to elaborate on this.


I gave my precondition for draggstopia

No Reds

You misapprehend amusement for contempt


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> You misapprehend amusement for contempt


So then, you, as a productive person in society, bear no ill will whatsoever towards those who are not, yet receive comfortable enough lives despite contributing nothing?


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> This is pretty much identical to the common drug addict asserting that, since they have yet to overdose, there is no danger in their habit.
> 
> 
> The presence of these people at all, and the system's inability to remove them, is an indicator that its health is failing. Even many so-called productive people work jobs that are useless and produce nothing of value. Large swathes of society are simply not beneficial in any way, even you yourself admit this. There's a word for that phenomena: cancer.


Perhaps the same could be said of all civilizations. Mankind ill needs a critic such as you



> So then, you, as a productive person in society, bear no ill will whatsoever towards those who are not, yet receive comfortable enough lives despite contributing nothing?



I guess I could afford a lot more if I didn't subsidize the homeless but then what would I spend it on if there were no more bumfights


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

the fall of man said:


> Perhaps the same could be said of all civilizations. Mankind ill needs a critic such as you


Apparently it does, because here we are.



the fall of man said:


> I guess I could afford a lot more if I didn't subsidize the homeless but then what would I spend it on if there were no more bumfights


I fully agree with having contempt for people like that, I just think its disingenuous at best to pretend it doesn't remotely bother you.

Its probably not a healthy sign either that these kinds of discussions inevitably degenerate into two or more people competing with each other to show how uncaring and nihilistic they are. In any decently run society, that sort of thing isn't supposed to be encouraged at all, let alone made into a contest. Again I say, the fact that it has appeared at all is proof positive that the whole structure has already been compromised, severely.


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> I fully agree with having contempt for people like that, I just think its disingenuous at best to pretend it doesn't remotely bother you.
> 
> Its probably not a healthy sign either that these kinds of discussions inevitably degenerate into two or more people competing with each other to show how uncaring and nihilistic they are. In any decently run society, that sort of thing isn't supposed to be encouraged at all, let alone made into a contest. Again I say, the fact that it has appeared at all is proof positive that the whole structure has already been compromised, severely.


Their lives suck though. Here's how it goes:

- I go to work and make money
- I pay taxes so the government doesn't terrorize me and entertains itself fighting foreign wars and raping foreign kids
- A pittance of that goes towards the care and feeding of future lolcows
- I pay the church a tithe to try and prevent people who aren't deadset on lolcowdom from descending into it (personal responsibility to my fellow man also matters here but it's irrelevant to the conversation, insert charity or whatever else here)
- I pay a corporation way too much for a house to live in, another one for food to eat, another for electricity, another for internet
- I go online to the Kiwi Farms
- I read about the lolcows and laugh and sometimes get into slapfights about politics or video games

Am I supposed to want something better? Am I broken if I don't


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## mickey339 (Aug 22, 2022)

Europe is waking up and will be fit within a few decades.
USA? Don’t know, neither care.


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

mickey339 said:


> Europe is waking up and will be fit within a few decades.
> USA? Don’t know, neither care.


i assure you, we'll be fine. shit may go down, but we'll then be in a completely different kind of trouble than we are in currently and it will be the worst thing ever

the only real civilizational risks we face are dangerously miscalculating our own competence and that of our geopolitical rivals, or being lax on our guard and allowing the retards to take over. on the first point, we're worse than we think, but they're WAY worse than we think; and on the second, a lot of people are gonna get burned on the current wave of "progress", but it ain't gonna be me or many of the people i know.

i wish i could say "most"


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

the fall of man said:


> Their lives suck though. Here's how it goes:
> 
> - I go to work and make money
> - I pay taxes so the government doesn't terrorize me and entertains itself fighting foreign wars and raping foreign kids
> ...


I think it makes sense to want something better, modern society has a great deal of flaws and while a lot of them are endemic a whole lot of them are just poor planning and open corruption. I don't believe in the gay communist robot utopia concept but there are a number of things that could be improved upon with surprisingly little effort.

I think it also makes sense to resent the government (or even other institutions) for catering to the useless, especially if you claim to  value your time and your own sense of self worth. When your time and money is taken and handed to the useless, that is more or less broadcasting the message that your time and money aren't worth very much at all. You can claim its morally justified in some way to do that to people, but to the average person the message being sent to them is that they are simply not as highly valued; that they are disposable. That does things to people, even if they claim they're okay with it. Its even worse when the useless people fed and supplied by your own hard work are walking, talking, everpresent, and are allowed to actively influence both local and state politics, making them an inescapable daily reminder. They don't just get hidden away like they used to in the past, and their numbers are always increasing.

If that sort of thing just doesn't bother you, somehow, I don't know if broken is the word I would use but it would make you something of a doormat. Its the wrong kind of apathy, and you shouldn't allow anyone to walk all over you like that.


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> So then, you, as a productive person in society, bear no ill will whatsoever towards those who are not, yet receive comfortable enough lives despite contributing nothing?


Life is too short to turn into a bitter dwarf 

That's what Marx did and like I said

NO REDS


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> Life is too short to turn into a bitter dwarf


ok doormat

you wont mind if i wipe my feet right


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> ok doormat
> 
> you wont mind if i wipe my feet right


Dry drunks arent allowed in my domicile


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## L50LasPak (Aug 22, 2022)

draggs said:


> Dry drunks arent allowed in my domicile


That's okay, it just reeks like stale weed and cheap incense anyway.


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## draggs (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> That's okay, it just reeks like stale weed and cheap incense anyway.


It smells like sassafras and ergot tyvm 

The MDMA and LSD dont cook themselves you know


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## AgendaPoster (Aug 22, 2022)

There is no homeostasis for whole nations or even less for something as ambiguous as the "West", there are only endless waves of balkanization and empire creation/consolidation.
Nothing lasts forever. Pray we'll die before we get conquered, after us the flood. 
Democracy is not an issue, diversity is an issue as it results in endless petty ethnic conflicts. Democracy can and should be illiberal and inside a mostly cohesive ethnic state, like Hungary or Poland, as it results in some stability and consensus, and if social problems are muted, a society can focus on trade and research/development, innovation, industry,


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

L50LasPak said:


> I think it makes sense to want something better, modern society has a great deal of flaws and while a lot of them are endemic a whole lot of them are just poor planning and open corruption. I don't believe in the gay communist robot utopia concept but there are a number of things that could be improved upon with surprisingly little effort.
> 
> I think it also makes sense to resent the government (or even other institutions) for catering to the useless, especially if you claim to  value your time and your own sense of self worth. When your time and money is taken and handed to the useless, that is more or less broadcasting the message that your time and money aren't worth very much at all. You can claim its morally justified in some way to do that to people, but to the average person the message being sent to them is that they are simply not as highly valued; that they are disposable. That does things to people, even if they claim they're okay with it. Its even worse when the useless people fed and supplied by your own hard work are walking, talking, everpresent, and are allowed to actively influence both local and state politics, making them an inescapable daily reminder. They don't just get hidden away like they used to in the past, and their numbers are always increasing.
> 
> If that sort of thing just doesn't bother you, somehow, I don't know if broken is the word I would use but it would make you something of a doormat. Its the wrong kind of apathy, and you shouldn't allow anyone to walk all over you like that.


They take _some_ of my money and use it for whatever retard stuff they do, so in that sense perhaps I'm not better off than a serf. Could things be better? Sure. I've seen lots of societal conveniences or systemic improvements in other countries I would bring back to America if I could.

Do I resent the government? Somewhat. They're corrupt retards. Every government on Earth is, to varying extents. I do not have a good solution, they are a necessary evil.

I do not get the feeling that I'm disposable and useless  because my taxes go towards the care and feeding of bureaucrats and poors. Render unto Caesar, perhaps; but I honestly enjoy my work, try to do good in my community, and mostly ignore the enraged messaging and shock horror "baby given sex change in uterus then aborted because it is a clump of cells" shit we are constantly bombarded with, because the people who publish that want me to be angry, or demoralized. I am neither. I am growing food, I am learning new skills, I am making friends with my neighbors, and I am finding many people with similar values in surprising places, very close to me. Yes, 40% of my money goes to useless government programs. But they have to pass laws to do that, and I read those laws, and then I move money around in some accounts, and get most of my money back (to either tax shelter or to pay them again next year, another quarter in the slot machine).

I really don't feel beaten down. The world is a giant, intricate puzzle. A mystery with infinite depth in every direction. I feel interested, mostly - so interested I don't even mess with video games much anymore.

You seem very blackpilled, friend. I know I am perhaps very fortunate to live the life I do. I am aware of the injustices in society. I am aware that the current direction of the country will end in chaos, and some people will be angry, and some people (perhaps even me) may die.

My duty here is to do as much as I can for the people I can. I can't change society, or the government. Maybe someone else can. Maybe they will. Empires rise and fall, but the farmer is in his field; for who can feed armies?

I may be wrong. But I don't think so


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 22, 2022)

> That aside, however, it is abundantly clear that most people won't actually change their collectively self-destructive ways in the west until they've been forced to do so by some cataclysmic event that all at once, puts them between the binary choices of either being wiped off the face of the Earth or rejecting the current western dogma and returning to a state at which the west had at least some degree of homeostasis.



If you play chess, which is very close to be a computer solved game, then the computer can tell you the precise value of each move. As a result, one move may be worth 0.1 pawns and another 0.15 pawns. The latter is always the better move out of the two.

In that sense everything is binary.

Getting fat is another example that will reduce your lifespan and health. When you zoom in enough, these decisions do become binary.

Let's introduce some things with chances. The chance of natal circumcision giving a baby complications, is nearly nonexistant. Circumcision helps prevent phimosis. But the chance of phimosis is also nearly nonexistant (phimosis is slightly less likely).

Even though there's chances involved, much like a casino's roulette table, you always want to be on the side where the chances are, on average, in your favor. You would rather be the casino than a player at the casino.

Everything does become binary when you look at the chances and outcomes closely enough. We are already at the apex or even past it.

You can't grow a garden if it's infested with snails and rabbits. And the enemies of the type of change that you or I would want are few, but so unspeakably powerful and entrenched that most people look away in fear and denial when encountering it. Amidst such cowardice, we don't deserve change and we certainly aren't earning or achieving it.

Saving the west? What west? It is already dead and gone. Best make plans that take this into account. Nobody is coming to save you and most aren't willing to save even themselves. It's a time where people building arks are seen as madman and they'll be the only to have a chance at escaping the fallout.


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## Feline Supremacist (Aug 22, 2022)

Certified_Autist said:


> I am aware that all of the below is MUCH easier said than done, but this is the short list of what I think is neccesary to fix the West.
> 
> 
> Current financial system is a clusterfuck.
> >End fractional reserve banking, end fiat currency. Return to financial system based on actual physical assets.


The current banking system is together by baling wire, kite string and spit. It is nearing total collapse. We should be be thinking how to replace it.


Certified_Autist said:


> Modern Prussian-derived education system designed to churn out midwit drones.
> >Reform education systems so that they actually educate people. Teach students "how" to think crtitically, not merely "what" to think.


Agreed, but any restorative or otherwise woke garbage should be discarded.


Certified_Autist said:


> Rates of depression, loneliness, mental illness, etc, are skyrocketing
> >This may sound weird, but I think some degree of religiousity/spirituality should be officially encouraged, both for social cohesion and for individual mental health.


The current system is causing this. It's how humans respond to an insane society.


Certified_Autist said:


> Declining birthrates combined with growing epidemic of lonely single adults
> >Complete cultural reset- discourage male/female hypergamy, fix male/female gender relations, discourage LGBT, and encourage stable relationships that lead to reproduction.


Agreed.


Certified_Autist said:


> People have no pride in their nation's history, either out of ignorance of said history or outright hatred of said history
> >In line with the cultural reset, promote western culture postively in mass media, to give people a sense of pride in their heritage.


Agreed, but the current iteration of the "media" should be dismantled. How is another discussion altogether.


Certified_Autist said:


> High-trust communities increasingly becoming thing of the past, IQ is falling and crime is increasing
> >A country is the sum of its people. So stop importing retarded 3rd worlders, and if possible, incentivize the ones already here to leave.


That would solve a good deal of it, but religion should be encouraged. It instills a moral framework in the young and its leaders reinforce it. Of course this excludes the mainline Roman Catholic Church/Protestant/Jewish faiths as they stand now. Removing their tax exempt status and government sinecures would change this.


Certified_Autist said:


> Labor shortage combined with shortage of good jobs
> >In line with ending migration/immigration, make it impossible to import foreign workers so that companies must hire Westerners, or train Westerners if there aren't enough qualified workers. This will increase wages due to laws of supply and demand.


Agreed.


Certified_Autist said:


> Merely attempting to implement all of the above isn't going to happen without major political reform. So I unfortunately agree with the doomers that positive change will not happen until the current system collapses or is severely weakened.


Agreed. Violence would be inevitably ensue.


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

Lemmingwise said:


> If you play chess, which is very close to be a computer solved game, then the computer can tell you the precise value of each move. As a result, one move may be worth 0.1 pawns and another 0.15 pawns. The latter is always the better move out of the two.
> 
> In that sense everything is binary.
> 
> ...


I agree with your take in general, except the part about it being binary. If you have perfect knowledge, choice ceases to exist. If there is still a random element (you can score all the moves but there's still a theoretical perfect game against you), then choices are deliberate, but ranked. And there are always complicating factors that make easy decisions into (not really) hard decisions (I don't want my baby to have phimosis but 4chan said that foreskin removal makes you jewish and I trust anonymous strangers on the internet implicitly so etc).

I guess what I'm saying is, there are cases where a decision is objectively correct, and there are situations where you'd really like to move where arks are cheaper, but your wife doesn't want to go, so you instead decide the only way out is to build an expensive and massively reinforced ark where you are and set up a contingency plan just in case


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 22, 2022)

the fall of man said:


> I guess what I'm saying is, there are cases where a decision is objectively correct, and there are situations where you'd really like to move where arks are cheaper, but your wife doesn't want to go, so you instead decide the only way out is to build an expensive and massively reinforced ark where you are and set up a contingency plan just in case


This is just the result of an earlier mistake, where you have a wife and you are not the leader of the relationship, but fell for the equality meme.

I get the general argument against choices being binary, because the world is complex and information is never perfect or complete. Yet, there is always enough information to make a best guess on and that is objectively the right choice.

And yes, it's still a choice. People choose the wrong choice all the time despite knowing better.


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## Sithis (Aug 22, 2022)

Embrace the end. Death is only the beginning.


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## JambledUpWords (Aug 22, 2022)

Things are bad, but they aren’t as bad as people are making it out to be. Of course it’s easy to doom if you only focus on what corporate journos and the federal government do or say, but it ignores the stuff right in front of you. Even though inflation is an issue, things are still getting done at local levels by people you don’t care to notice that often. Mail can arrive on time, food is still available even if it is more expensive, and you’re still able to enjoy some leisure. If you have a good network of people to help you when things get tough, gain some humility and use it. This is why community is so important and a reason why being part of any church would help give you that stability. Focus on what is in front of you and what you can change there to make society better, it’s a lot less stressful and more useful than dooming. The strength of a society is dependent on the strength of the individuals, and you can do your part by becoming a productive member of society. No need to make fan theories of what you think might happen, so long as you have a good network and prepare where you are able to, you will be fine.


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## the fall of man (Aug 22, 2022)

Lemmingwise said:


> This is just the result of an earlier mistake, where you have a wife and you are not the leader of the relationship, but fell for the equality meme.


"As Christ loves the church", goes the commandment. Sometimes that involves allowing a poor decision to bear fruit (but probably not the pointing and laughing and rubbing it in part)


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 22, 2022)

JambledUpWords said:


> Of course it’s easy to doom if you only focus on what corporate journos and the federal government do or say, but it ignores the stuff right in front of you.





JambledUpWords said:


> If you have a good network of people to help you when things get tough, gain some humility and use it. This is why community is so important and a reason why being part of any church would help give you that stability.



I'm not concerned with the inflation or the recession. Have been seeing that coming from a mile away.

Thanks for the womanly advice of relying on other people, but the men are talking. If we get past it, it will be because of the actions of men. Women will just be passengers. Valued passengers, sure.


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## JambledUpWords (Aug 22, 2022)

Lemmingwise said:


> I'm not concerned with the inflation or the recession. Have been seeing that coming from a mile away.
> 
> Thanks for the womanly advice of relying on other people, but the men are talking. If we get past it, it will be because of the actions of men. Women will just be passengers. Valued passengers, sure.


Unless you think you can survive the wilderness alone, you need a network, and societies need social circles as a method of survival.


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 22, 2022)

JambledUpWords said:


> Unless you think you can survive the wilderness alone, you need a network, and societies need social circles as a method of survival.


To use your computer you need to turn it on.

Very important advice.


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## gang weeder (Aug 22, 2022)

JambledUpWords said:


> Things are bad, but they aren’t as bad as people are making it out to be. Of course it’s easy to doom if you only focus on what corporate journos and the federal government do or say, but it ignores the stuff right in front of you. Even though inflation is an issue, things are still getting done at local levels by people you don’t care to notice that often. Mail can arrive on time, food is still available even if it is more expensive, and you’re still able to enjoy some leisure. If you have a good network of people to help you when things get tough, gain some humility and use it. This is why community is so important and a reason why being part of any church would help give you that stability. Focus on what is in front of you and what you can change there to make society better, it’s a lot less stressful and more useful than dooming. The strength of a society is dependent on the strength of the individuals, and you can do your part by becoming a productive member of society. No need to make fan theories of what you think might happen, so long as you have a good network and prepare where you are able to, you will be fine.



This is actually a doom pill.

I don't think you understand. The bad ending is if things continue largely unchanged. The good ending requires things to get worse, so that they can get better.


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## Wesley Willis (Aug 22, 2022)

There is no "west" to be saved.


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## Sweetpeaa (Aug 23, 2022)

Wuornos said:


> Nothing can be done. It's too late. White "men" have spent half a century scapegoating and vilifying women and mothers. Now you're dying out because women hate you and are going asexual, gay or screwing non-white men.
> 
> You get what you deserve...



In Canada there was a campaign in my province as a child to crack down on those ''welfare cheating'' single mothers. This lead to an almost total reduction in financial support to them. Back then there was swaths of white single Mother's with two to three children living on government aid in government housing. The public got on the band wagon to dismantle their supports and the ''witch hunt'' started. But little did the politicians or the public know where this would lead.

 To their shock the white population took a serious nose dive. Single white women no longer have children.. they abort. So who now supports the population growth and lives in that public housing if not white women and their kids? Muslim and black immigrants and refugee's.

And now the right of center politician's in Canada and their supporters howl about white genocide and rarely seeing white children anymore. I remember seeing this man raging on youtube that his child ''was the only white kid in the class'' in a Toronto school and how ''my son is picked on for being white''.

What did they expect? This was as self inflicted wound based on a stupid campaign of ''war on the poor''. Britain is in much of the same boat since Thatcher kicked the white brits out of council housing and fucked their unions and jobs. Other political parties just continued the same shit. Now it's Muzzieland over there with the most popular baby name in the U.K being ''Muhammad''.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Aug 23, 2022)

byuu said:


> Imagine being so mad about retarded trannies or whatever that you want your whole country to burn down.


Shutting the world down for two years, persecuting me and insulting my people in our homeland, chopping dicks off kids, subjecting me to an unlawful government, and making life a tangle of tyrannical laws while throwing away huge chunks of our money on worthless people are why I want to burn the country down.


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## byuu (Aug 23, 2022)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> Shutting the world down for two years, persecuting me and insulting my people in our homeland, chopping dicks off kids, subjecting me to an unlawful government, and making life a tangle of tyrannical laws while throwing away huge chunks of our money on worthless people are why I want to burn the country down.


So you're butthurt about COVID measures that are already lifted, don't like people saying mean things to you, don't like what other parents think is best for their children, can't get over your candidate losing like a bitch, and don't like taxes.


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## thrasymachus (Aug 23, 2022)

byuu said:


> Imagine being so mad about retarded trannies or whatever that you want your whole country to burn down.



I unironically think it's kind of a continuation of Soviet propaganda, but now done by Russia and some online nazis. "Your country is degenerate anon, you should welcome its demise at our hands." It's what Bezmenov said, except now it's right wingers who are the useful idiots.


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## Rubber Soul (Aug 23, 2022)

thrasymachus said:


> I unironically think it's kind of a continuation of Soviet propaganda, but now done by Russia and some online nazis. "Your country is degenerate anon, you should welcome its demise at our hands." It's what Bezmenov said, except now it's right wingers who are the useful idiots.


Sadly it's true. The "culture war" was just a psyop


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## ConfederateIrishman (Aug 24, 2022)

JambledUpWords said:


> Things are bad, but they aren’t as bad as people are making it out to be. Of course it’s easy to doom if you only focus on what corporate journos and the federal government do or say, but it ignores the stuff right in front of you. Even though inflation is an issue, things are still getting done at local levels by people you don’t care to notice that often. Mail can arrive on time, food is still available even if it is more expensive, and you’re still able to enjoy some leisure. If you have a good network of people to help you when things get tough, gain some humility and use it. This is why community is so important and a reason why being part of any church would help give you that stability. Focus on what is in front of you and what you can change there to make society better, it’s a lot less stressful and more useful than dooming. The strength of a society is dependent on the strength of the individuals, and you can do your part by becoming a productive member of society. No need to make fan theories of what you think might happen, so long as you have a good network and prepare where you are able to, you will be fine.


You might want to define society and community at this point. I would not, for example, recommend people invest all their resources into a declining church or urban community that will be on fire 15 years down the road -- but you are absolutely correct about having a good social network to carry you through crises. And ideally you would want to live in a community you know will still be 'fine' 15 years down the line, in which case you absolutely should invest all your resources into it.

Edit: To answer your question @mr.moon1488, I think Sad Crusader gave you the most honest answer -- that your best bet will be growing a new tree out of the stump of the old. Realize that most of this is out of your control, but don't completely surrender to doomer/american passivity on it either. Look for where you can make little 'nudges' realistically and ensure you have a good _real _social network to keep yourself safe.
Also ignore all the nihilism in this thread, it is just coping.


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## Save the Loli (Aug 24, 2022)

As Mussolini, Lenin, and the Iranian ayatollahs proved, a relatively small but active movement with parallel institutions can easily co-opt and overthrow a decaying society and enforce a seemingly radical vision. Strangle and behead the hydra that rules us. That would be the bankers and their deep-rooted institutions. This would be done through radical protest movements that react violently to their every move (like the Canadian truckers, Dutch farmers, and some of the anti-lockdown/antivaxx mandate protests) and political activism through broadly allied politicians or useful idiots (like the SRs were for the Bolsheviks) who shift the Overton Window back to sanity. The latter already exists in the form of the MAGA movement, Tucker Carlson, etc. Interact with institutions like banking, education system, and anything government/megacorp owned and operated as little as possible. Do not pay for media you enjoy (pirate everything) and never subscribe to a streaming service, but do pay for media you enjoy made by likeminded people.

What YOU can do personally? Prepare yourself for the shitshow that happens when the order is overthrown by a clique of radicals. Own lots of gold and silver, own guns and your own land, connect with likeminded people in your area (even if they're much less understanding of the situation than you), educate and improve yourself in fitness, diet, firearms, survival skills, etc. At this point, overthrowing the current order is tantamount to starting both World War III and the Second American Civil War. You possibly will not survive.


Otterly said:


> -this hideous anti human _thing_ of a trans humanist movement has taken root.


That's one of the greatest problems, but space colonization will actually only damn us further in that regards. An O'Neill cylinder would realistically be nothing but a giant bugman pod in space since they're so expensive even for a spacefaring civilization you wouldn't keep it at a low population density (like, say, a small city surrounded by a rural landscape totalling 200K people, that would be comfy but they don't want that). Worse, space colonization would let degenerate societies leave to remote reaches of the solar system where they could do something retarded like turn themselves into the Borg. People either shouldn't be allowed to live in space or should be only allowed to live within a few million miles of earth where they can be watched. Although yes, we do need to mine the resources in space.


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## Speakeasy Electric (Aug 24, 2022)

I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' So I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 24, 2022)

Sweetpeaa said:


> In Canada there was a campaign in my province as a child to crack down on those ''welfare cheating'' single mothers. This lead to an almost total reduction in financial support to them. Back then there was swaths of white single Mother's with two to three children living on government aid in government housing. The public got on the band wagon to dismantle their supports and the ''witch hunt'' started. But little did the politicians or the public know where this would lead.
> 
> To their shock the white population took a serious nose dive. Single white women no longer have children.. they abort. So who now supports the population growth and lives in that public housing if not white women and their kids? Muslim and black immigrants and refugee's.
> 
> ...


Yes, with mass immigration many policies that would have had net positive outcomes (reduction of single motherhood) become net negatives (population replacement by other cultures/races).

You can't create balance in your garden if it constantly has invasive species that you're not allowed to control.


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## Male Idiot (Aug 24, 2022)

Trying to save the west is like trying to come up with a way the 3rd Reich can still win WW2.

That ship has already sailed, nothing to be done. The cancer is terminal. All empires die eventually.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Aug 24, 2022)

Save the Loli said:


> That's one of the greatest problems, but space colonization will actually only damn us further in that regards. An O'Neill cylinder would realistically be nothing but a giant bugman pod in space since they're so expensive even for a spacefaring civilization you wouldn't keep it at a low population density (like, say, a small city surrounded by a rural landscape totalling 200K people, that would be comfy but they don't want that). Worse, space colonization would let degenerate societies leave to remote reaches of the solar system where they could do something retarded like turn themselves into the Borg. *People either shouldn't be allowed to live in space or should be only allowed to live within a few million miles of earth where they can be watched*. Although yes, we do need to mine the resources in space.


I agree mostly with the rest of your points but you kind of lost me at this part. Space logistics by themselves aside to even make colonization viable, if it ever does get off the ground humans will naturally splinter over time - I'd even argue schisming and splintering and breaking off into your own empire that eventually splinters and repeats the cycle is a fundamental common trait in humans. 

Trying to enforce some permanent unity of humanity birthed from the fever dreams of 1970s to 1990s Sci-Fi American Universalist propaganda on what the future would look like is... beyond autistic. If civilizations ever do become viable in space I would wish them the best and be content knowing that humans live on more places than just earth.


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## Butterschmalz (Aug 24, 2022)

Male Idiot said:


> Trying to save the west is like trying to come up with a way the 3rd Reich can still win WW2.


Beautifully said. Besides, "saving" something means it failed in the first place. Why would you hold on to something that doesnt work? That would be a negative attitude! The positive attitude would be to create something new! Lets see what that would be...


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## Bored Gamer (Aug 25, 2022)

I don't know how but I'm pretty sure the first few steps involve building a time machine to travel back to the 1990s, round up all the libertarians, and drop them out of helicopters


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## Love Thug's Hate (Aug 25, 2022)

byuu said:


> Imagine being so mad about retarded trannies or whatever that you want your whole country to burn down.


Literally yes.


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## Boyd McVoid (Aug 25, 2022)

It's a slow and personal change, everyone can do their jobs while trying to become more sensitive.
The military is useful, and can be strong and sensitive at the same time.


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## thrasymachus (Aug 25, 2022)

I think for many people who say they would like to "save the West",  the West is something different than what it has been since say the Treaty of Westphalia of 1648. For me the West mainly represents liberalism, the scientific method, democracy and human rights. Indeed the "globohomo" many who think the West needs saving oppose.

However there is also the ethnos. I have grown up here in my home country in Europe seeing it get inundated by foreigners with skin colours different from mine. Is that something we need to save the West from? I am not quite sure. It is a conflict between ethnos and polis.


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## Save the Loli (Aug 26, 2022)

ConfederateIrishman said:


> I agree mostly with the rest of your points but you kind of lost me at this part. Space logistics by themselves aside to even make colonization viable, if it ever does get off the ground humans will naturally splinter over time - I'd even argue schisming and splintering and breaking off into your own empire that eventually splinters and repeats the cycle is a fundamental common trait in humans.
> 
> Trying to enforce some permanent unity of humanity birthed from the fever dreams of 1970s to 1990s Sci-Fi American Universalist propaganda on what the future would look like is... beyond autistic. If civilizations ever do become viable in space I would wish them the best and be content knowing that humans live on more places than just earth.


Yes, and it's incredibly dangerous. Like forget the destruction of the West, it would mean the destruction of humanity because all it would take is one crazy society, say, a light year away running off of deuterium fusion reactors in comets and everything mined from them, to turn themselves into the Borg out of efficiency and give us all the gift. Or people turning themselves and their kids into actual anthro animals and then decide to spread airborne AIDS and kill every human. You can laugh and think that's all a science fiction scenario, but that's _exactly what the WEF types want you to think_. Transgenderism is just the tip of the iceberg of man-made body horror we can do and the elites will push (and they already are, otherkin and transspecies are getting some press lately).

Science, and in particular space colonization will be the death of humanity. The only way to save the human race, and in particular Western civilization, is to outlaw and restrict it to the point automated lasers and drones should shoot down anything more intelligent than a dumb, highly-limited AI probe trying to leave our solar system.


thrasymachus said:


> I think for many people who say they would like to "save the West",  the West is something different than what it has been since say the Treaty of Westphalia of 1648. For me the West mainly represents liberalism, the scientific method, democracy and human rights. Indeed the "globohomo" many who think the West needs saving oppose.


Ironically, every single one of those ideas post-dates the Treaty of Westphalia, even if you can vaguely link it back to prior concepts like Athenian democracy or the Magna Carta. I would agree with you that equating "the West" as the product of the Enlightenment is a bad idea, and indeed it's an inaccurate one given opinions of the pre-Westphalian era which distinguished the Catholic (and later Protestant) parts of Europe from the Orthodox parts.

I think the essence of "Westernness" would be the Roman Republic, which is why practically all thinkers since the Renaissance have looked back fondly toward it. We obviously can't be a bunch of Roman larpers because we are not Romans nor is our tech akin to that of the Iron Age, but evolving a new ideology to "save the West" that captures that Romanness would be possible and ideal.


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## FlamingPie (Aug 26, 2022)

Save the Loli said:


> Science, and in particular space colonization will be the death of humanity. The only way to save the human race, and in particular Western civilization, is to outlaw and restrict it to the point automated lasers and drones should shoot down anything more intelligent than a dumb, highly-limited AI probe trying to leave our solar system.


Nah, science isn't to blame, it's the retards who misuse it. You know, the nutcases who want to chop off everyone's boobs and dicks and turn everything into blob people.


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## ArnoldPalmer (Aug 26, 2022)

People are too pussy to do anything about it, OP. Nobody wants to be the first, because everyone knows that there already was a first to die to change the state of X country or "the west", long ago. I'm not going to be specific about who that is because you could pick virtually anyone from Timothy MacVeigh to Martin Luther from a hat and say it's that guy. Point is, we're completely gonna go out with a whimper, and no group is willing to form to fix anything because those guys either get murdered or were already federal agents. Why risk it all when you could be eating Kid Cuisine and making $10 an hour at Wal-Mart. It ain't much, but it's something, right?

This corpse of a country is finely-tuned mediocre, deliberately calibrated to produce the most ineffective people possible. The Political/Financial/Social elites who did that have been around for so long that they knew there was nothing to do with all of these fucking people in the middle class. No jobs for the graduates, no social security for Gen Y and Z, no economic prospects because they sold all of the industries to china for a quick short term buck. Put the middle class into a very comfy poverty, and they'll kill themselves off. That takes care of the eaters, and whittles down their numbers back to a sustainable working class, tailored to the service industry, which truly is nothing more than a daycare for adults.

We are all tired, demoralized, exposed to manmade horrors that defy the natural order of things for exclusively evil purposes, every single day. It desensitizes you over time and eventually you'll just let things slide like everyone else does. No normal person has the mental fortitude required to tolerate this mess, articulate the problem, find a solution, and then fight for it. They just want to get their paycheck, so they can get back home and fall asleep to netflix until it's time to go back to work. You can't claim to be any better because you're not interned at a CIA Blacksite enough to be unable to read this.


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## Save the Loli (Aug 26, 2022)

FlamingPie said:


> Nah, science isn't to blame, it's the retards who misuse it. You know, the nutcases who want to chop off everyone's boobs and dicks and turn everything into blob people.


That wouldn't be possible without science. Think of the big picture here. Troons are literally the tip of the iceberg, just look into morphological freedom. What we see in the troon movement will be repeated countless times since again, they're already trying to start an "Otherkin Rights" movement and technology will exist to modify people (or their unborn children) into anthro animals. Or how about turning people into hive mind cyborgs? Funding this research is all part of the WEF plan to achieve biological (or digital) immortality, which is the logical conclusion of the bankers who rule society who HATE not being able to take their money to the grave, so they will live forever.


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## NeoGAF Lurker (Aug 26, 2022)

Forming local communities/networks is how everyone survived after civilizational collapse in the past and it’s no different here. People don’t like hearing it because it means they have to get off their fat asses and do something. Better to just hope for a deus ex machina to save you, be a multidimensional chessmaster, or vote harder for Republicans instead.


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## Balr0g (Aug 26, 2022)

You know how the West will be saved: we get another Führer who will do the dirty work (putting the woke in concentration camps wage war which will eliminate even more) until the West unites and eliminate said Führer. then the rebuilding will begin and it will be good and shiny until 80 years are over and baam rinse and repeat. Why do you think Hitler's words are so fitting for our time? Just an example "It is a small international rootless clique who goads us to tear each other apart who doesn't let us live in peace!"(paraphrasing) Replace Jew with World Economic forum and we are right there. Sorry for the sperging


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## Butcher Pete (Aug 26, 2022)

Leave the West behind. Let them have their niggers and faggots and other assorted mystery meats. Let go of that meaningless national identity and go and do.

 If the West destroys itself in your absence, why should you care? You can’t stop them from destroying themselves. They’ll fight you tooth and nail and destroy you if you try. They’ll only drag you down with them.

Just an idea from an ex-American.


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## Homophobic white dog (Aug 29, 2022)

Don't, let it die. Nothing lasts forever and nothing should last forever, especially not all this.

Create within you what will succeed it.


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## Akumaten (Aug 29, 2022)

Simple, make sodomy a federal/national offense. Only America and Western European nations would defend the not honor of sodomites.


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## thrasymachus (Aug 30, 2022)

But sodomy is a Western sacrament! We have to preserve it if we want to save the West.

Seriously, "Western culture" is such a jumble of contradictory stuff, there just isn't any sense in trying to defend it as a whole. Stopping the swarthy hordes from flooding our countries, sure that's another thing.


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 30, 2022)

thrasymachus said:


> It is a conflict between ethnos and polis.


I don't think there is a significant enough difference. It's true that when you really boil down what is valuable, it's culture, which is a mix of behaviour and values. However, we are not blank slates. Twin studies show that behaviour is predicted for roughly 60-70% by genes and about 5-10% by adoptive parents+environment (with the rest unaccounted for. Possibly epigenetic, or chance).

So we have a very poor track record of getting results by parental or environmental inculcation. And then you start to discover that genes are the root and culture is the flower. What flower a plant grows depends on its species. And the significant difference in behaviour between human races is sufficient to be different species. Certainly as it relates to behaviour. Hear a Polish communist speaking and an english conservatice aristocrat will have more in common with him than either do with a chinese man born in Germany.



thrasymachus said:


> But sodomy is a Western sacrament! We have to preserve it if we want to save the West.
> 
> Seriously, "Western culture" is such a jumble of contradictory stuff, there just isn't any sense in trying to defend it as a whole. Stopping the swarthy hordes from flooding our countries, sure that's another thing.



You need a flag to rally behind that feels worth dying for. You can't rally behind a void.


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## SwanSwanson (Aug 30, 2022)

This question already presumes that there is anything about modern western civilization worth saving. What is there to save? Its values? Any good values it may have once had are gone and any current values which replaced it are corrupt moral values. Its beaurocratic order?


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## Tree (Aug 31, 2022)

Wuornos said:


> Nothing can be done. It's too late. White "men" have spent half a century scapegoating and vilifying women and mothers. Now you're dying out because women hate you and are going asexual, gay or screwing non-white men.
> 
> You get what you deserve...


We must physically remove these people.

Quite literally our elites hate us. We must form power blocks ourselves and whether there be collapse or not, stand against the sort of sordid creature who only say things like this because they never cared about our well being to begin with.



thrasymachus said:


> I think for many people who say they would like to "save the West", the West is something different than what it has been since say the Treaty of Westphalia of 1648. For me the West mainly represents liberalism, the scientific method, democracy and human rights. Indeed the "globohomo" many who think the West needs saving oppose.
> 
> However there is also the ethnos. I have grown up here in my home country in Europe seeing it get inundated by foreigners with skin colours different from mine. Is that something we need to save the West from? I am not quite sure. It is a conflict between ethnos and polis.


Most Americans or Brits properly informed would have sided with the Germans. As larpy as it sounds, the Reich had a viable way forward for The West. Hitler was not fighting for Germany alone. He knew he couldn't form the power block he needed without smashing some uncooperative, parasite addled heads, but he never intended to go to war with England or the United States. His purpose was to form a block with which he could maintain European sovereignty and oppose the emerging blatantly anti-Western force of international finance which armed itself with the shape-shifting ideological hammer of parasitism (bolshevism, communism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy); a subversion of The West which continues to this day.

Hitler was right, and he truly believed in what he put forward; he and his men were the greatest heroes of our era, and their defeat it's greatest tragedy. They are uniquely vilified for this reason alone.

Point being, the fundamental problem has not changed since then. Given that, the solution, by whoever's hand it is delivered, is one which will necessarily reflects theirs, albeit adapted to the times. That is to say, The West has a way forward, and a part of it begun down it but faltered against the sheer weight of the rest weaponized against it. As dimly as it is lit, that path remains yet open, for those willing to see it.

Practically speaking, any effort begins by joining, in person, with others working to kindle this spirit. First ensure you're a person worth having around, then literally move to where they are. What's next depends on circumstance, but the more people who can organize in a contiguous place the more can be done. Rely on each other over outsiders, and grow your numbers thoughtfully. Ignore naysayers as by their apathy they show they are not of the west to begin with, or are a part of it which should be lost. These organized groups having started their own institutions, communities, and centers of human action will serve to arm the broader sphere as its ideas evolve and resolve to take physical form.


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## Save the Loli (Sep 1, 2022)

Tree said:


> Most Americans or Brits properly informed would have sided with the Germans. As larpy as it sounds, the Reich had a viable way forward for The West. Hitler was not fighting for Germany alone. He knew he couldn't form the power block he needed without smashing some uncooperative, parasite addled heads, but he never intended to go to war with England or the United States. His purpose was to form a block with which he could maintain European sovereignty and oppose the emerging blatantly anti-Western force of international finance which armed itself with the shape-shifting ideological hammer of parasitism (bolshevism, communism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy); a subversion of The West which continues to this day.


Hitler's regime operated for nothing but the aggrandizement of Germany. That's why the Nazis couldn't make up a coherent policy on the Slavs and let a few warlords operate freely (very few of them Russian with the exception of Vlasov and one other guy's project I can't recall now) while shot others (like some Polish fascists who wanted to collaborate). While there were some Nazis who wanted a true anti-Bolshevik crusade, plenty of others just wanted German/"Aryan" supremacy or thought they were doing WWI all over again but with more shooting people. If Hitler had wanted nothing but a revision of Eastern Europe to the Brest-Litovsk borders and pro-German states of 1918, he would have won because partisan activity would have been radically reduced and he'd have much better logistics to overrun the last viable Soviet lines of defense along the Volga.


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## Homophobic white dog (Sep 1, 2022)

Tree said:


> View attachment 3664543



1492 is when America was discovered, and Spain got rich off of colonizing the place. By 1659, when the golden age was over, the Jews (at least those who didn't convert, because plenty honestly did and stayed) were still verboten, Spain had fucked itself by pursuing an inflationary policy regarding its gold and silver reserves.

It has nothing to do with Jews.


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