# Should taxation be reformed into something else?



## Kiwi & Cow (Apr 9, 2022)

Taxation doesn't work, it is intended to help the poor and take money from the millionaires, but it doesn't really do any of that.

In Canada for example, promotions and large wages are rare from bosses because they're using your hypothetical revenue to pay their own taxes, so due to that you'll lose any amount you could make in the US if you live in Canada, but you'll also be hit with taxes on your own because whatever organisation deals with taxes in Canada still wants your money, so not only you're hit harder with taxes, but you also make less. That's why I'm very supportive of lower taxations because the lesser the better.
Basically taxation hurts the middle class who basically are trying their best to survive.

I live somewhere in Europe and it's basically like Canada. Out of any country in the EU, France is the worst one involving taxation with France being so fucked with taxation that people have to do illegal shit there like undeclared work just to survive. France is basically Detroit if you're American.
Article | Archive

Americans have it bad too with the IRS taking very long to register taxation payments.
Article | Archive
Excerpt:


> Last year, taxpayers experienced long processing and refund delays, and it was almost impossible to get the IRS on the phone (only one in nine calls was answered, with an average wait time of 23 minutes). Correspondence with the agency also went unprocessed for many months, collection notices were issued while taxpayers waited for their letters to be answered, and at times, there was limited or no information on the online tool, Where’s My Refund?



Leftists get angry at the mere suggestion of trickle down politics because they have very little foresight, but as I said it seems to be a more effective way of helping out the middle class and the workers in spite of also making Bill Gates richer, but an issue with that is that those people are still getting all the money and partly the cause of inflation in America, that's why they ask for more taxation instead of less.

And basically what amounts to what I said in my opening paragraph, countries with stricter taxation still have an equal amount of homelessness compared to countries with more conservative taxation. I don't know why, they just do.

I think that one thing that could done would be to simply change the way taxes work instead of taking x% of money based on a person's wealth.

See also this: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/taxefect.htm

Discuss.


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## Smug Chuckler (Apr 9, 2022)

It's working as intended as a form of control.


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## Apotheosis of the Liver (Apr 9, 2022)

> Taxation doesn't work, it is intended to help the poor and take money from the millionaires


Citation needed.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (Apr 9, 2022)

Reduce taxation by family unit size. Max rates for singles and low rates for 3+ children.


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## Celebrate Nite (Apr 9, 2022)




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## CreamyHerman’s (Apr 9, 2022)

I think a simple to understand flat tax rate would be great


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## Kacho (Apr 9, 2022)

Taxation should be replaced by a long march to the gallows for all IRS employees.


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## Mnutu (Apr 9, 2022)

>muh “Taxation is theft” meme
Neck yourself you literal mongoloid


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## XMassAllYearRound (Apr 9, 2022)

I would be happy with a transparent bill that is sent to your home each month tbh.
One that indicates clearly where everything is going in a district:

X is going to public ilumination
X is going to road maintenence
X is going to garbage handling
etc.
Other services outside your district like highways could be charged on a per use basis.


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## Retink (Apr 9, 2022)

Taxation should be reformed into nonexistence.


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## Kiwi & Cow (Apr 10, 2022)

Retink said:


> Taxation should be reformed into nonexistence.


That's very optimistic of you, unless everything is privatised (healthcare, roads, homes) then it won't ever happen unfortunately.


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## Retink (Apr 10, 2022)

Kiwi & Cow said:


> That's very optimistic of you, unless everything is privatised (healthcare, roads, homes) then it won't ever happen unfortunately.


I'd be all for that. Lacking that, I'd settle for being able to directly denote what my taxes pay for, as in I can go online and say I want 50% to go to utilities, 25% to roads, and 25% to something. Then 0% to schools, nigger monuments, etc. You could easily automate that in this day and age.


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## The Wicked Mitch (Apr 10, 2022)

Taxation should be abolished to defund the only criminals, bullies, thugs and terrorists that have ever bothered me as an adult: government employees.


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## Gimmick Account (Apr 11, 2022)

i think the romans were able to abolish taxes a couple times after successful military campaigns
just start invading rich niggas and steal they jewels instead of going after sand people. raid the vatican vault or nintendo or something


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## Unarmed Gunman (Apr 11, 2022)

1913 was the beginning of the end in the US.


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## The Ugly One (Apr 11, 2022)

The point of taxation is to punish things the ruling class dislikes and reward the things they do like. It's overall pretty good at that.


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## Kiwi & Cow (Apr 12, 2022)

The Ugly One said:


> The point of taxation is to punish things the ruling class dislikes and reward the things they do like. It's overall pretty good at that.


They must hate everybody except themselves then. Only the very wealthy as far as I know is regularly found to be exempt from taxation.


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## topsikrets (Apr 12, 2022)

something something single land tax whatever something georgism something


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## Manul Otocolobus (Apr 12, 2022)

I favor a progressive VAT to replace all other tax. Extraction of raw materials, you tax the value of it. Someone refines it to make it more valuable, you only tax the difference in the added value. etc... up the chain of production. Once it gets to retail, once again, the tax is on the portion that is the value added above wholesale.


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## Mayor Adam West (Apr 12, 2022)

We need punitive taxes on the uber wealthy and lower them for everyone else.


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## The Wicked Mitch (Apr 12, 2022)

Kiwi & Cow said:


> They must hate everybody except themselves then. Only the very wealthy as far as I know is regularly found to be exempt from taxation.


They do, anyone existing within the system of needing to exchange their time for, well, anything really is considered subhuman cattle by those in charge.


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## libRT (Apr 12, 2022)

While anarchy objectively is the best simply because all forms of government have a cost and they all aim to control human behaviour, if everyone behaved there would be no need for government and so no cost. Theoretically the idea is nice but practically we're no way near any chance of that happening, even if we were its unrealistic to think it would be maintained for very long. Maybe when capitalism is nearing its end game.

Having said that though, would be nice to have localised government, so the people it affects have control over it, same with taxes, maybe with the option to flip to other nearby districts every year, or create a new one.


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## Barry McKockner (Apr 12, 2022)

At $500k, mandatory minimum payments start and progress as income goes up. No more people paying no taxes.


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## murph (Apr 12, 2022)

I hate taxation in general, but it's made way more complicated in the US than it needs to be. Every year I file a tax return. Every year the IRS challenges it and assigns penalties and interest. So I am paying someone to do my taxes, and the IRS is also doing my taxes. The difference isn't worth the legal fees to challenge, so I end up paying it. 

I wish they'd just send me a bill, and I could say "fair enough" and pay it, or challenge it if I think it's absurd. But if I pay it, I never want to hear about it ever again.


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## Save the Loli (Apr 17, 2022)

I think the government will be reforming taxation for us, since--tinfoil hat time--in the future, they could make taxation "voluntary", but if you don't pay (spend your FEDcoin on it), they will take away your access to society. For instance, if you don't pay the road tax to drive on the roads and the carbon tax for the electricity in the car you and the other people in your pod share, "your" car won't stop when you put your key in and you'll probably have your food rations slashed (because the Tesla Cybertrucks need to use the road too). If you don't pay the healthcare tax, you won't be allowed to buy medicine or see a doctor.

Not paying some taxes will mean you will starve, like if you don't pay the environment tax, you are banned from buying food or receiving free water, because that means you aren't helping offset carbon with the bugsteaks and soy you're eating. I could see a "social justice tax" existing too to help "marginalized people", and not paying that means you have to pay more on all your other taxes or maybe even go straight to not-prison (an even smaller pod for wrongthinkers).

All of this will be enforced by a digital ID you will show which includes everything about you on it (i.e. name, vaccination status, etc.).

This will be done because it makes more sense than current taxation when most of the money will just go to UBI and it goes along with some of the WEF's goals in terms of "flexibility." It also gives everyone a "choice" in paying taxes (people love having choices after all) and fools people into thinking their tax money is being directed to something useful. I don't know if the government will ever do this but all it really takes is one "intellectual" billionaire hanging out with the WEF and Bilderberg and it becomes "sound policy" just like when Blackrock's Larry Fink helped create ESG social credit scores.


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## eternal dog mongler (Apr 22, 2022)

murph said:


> I hate taxation in general, but it's made way more complicated in the US than it needs to be. Every year I file a tax return. Every year the IRS challenges it and assigns penalties and interest. So I am paying someone to do my taxes, and the IRS is also doing my taxes. The difference isn't worth the legal fees to challenge, so I end up paying it.


Don't forget that most workers in the US are withholding and then getting a refund during tax time, which is...basically giving the IRS an interest-free loan from your paycheck throughout the year.

Whoever designed this whole system was on crack.


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## Skitarii (Apr 22, 2022)

Tax business operations rather than income like they do in UAE. As much as I'd clamor for a tax on unmarried and childless couples, all it would do is drive young, talented labor out of the country. The only place where I see it working is Ireland, where the sunk costs of moving out outweigh those of paying a little extra tax for not having kids


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## Michael Pemulis (Apr 22, 2022)

The only states that have not had taxation (and I mean ever, going back until the dawn of civilization) instead had a stranglehold on some lucrative industry that made them so much money they didn't need to bother with taxes, they're called 'rentier states'. Some of these states still exist today, mostly (entirely?) in the Middle East with oil. The ruling oligarchs are so attached to their oil profits that the risk of a popular uprising taking it away isn't worth how ever much money they could get from them with taxation. Enlightened self-interest causes these governments to maintain infrastructure and peace and reasonable prosperity, because the system needs to work to keep lining their pockets. These governments actively simp for the public, rather than demanding to be simped for like every other government. 

Of course, this has some downsides. First, it's not viable unless you have an industry that could work like that. Second, it takes the opportunity to hold that industry away from the public. And finally, these are pretty much always dictatorships run by a ruling group that basically constitutes a mafia.


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## Retink (Apr 22, 2022)

Kiwi & Cow said:


> They must hate everybody except themselves then. Only the very wealthy as far as I know is regularly found to be exempt from taxation.


Politicians are extreme narcissists, so it checks out.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Apr 24, 2022)

Some thoughts

Income taxation is nice in how it can allow you to use progressive taxation, but some people argue that tax policy has never been effective in the long run at preventing concentration of wealth (The Great Leveler). A single uniform value-added tax, on the other hand, would generally be the easiest tax to levy and difficult to evade.

Property taxes are rather nice because property is pretty inelastic, so you don't get much of a welfare loss from it. Henry George (Georgism) argued that we should use it. It's not viable for running a government of the current size, but many municipalities already depend on them, and it could be relied on more.

Government monopolies/state-run industries can be used as an alternative to taxation, but are also dangerous in terms of giving the government the ability to manipulate behavior.

Tariffs have the benefit of being like a sales tax while also encouraging your own manufacturing. Barriers to trade aren't good in general, but you need revenue SOMEHOW, and that seems preferable to a lot of alternatives.


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## MySonDavid (Apr 25, 2022)

I would be fine with taxes if our government weren't run by corrupt scum and squandered on bullshit.


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## Save the Loli (Apr 25, 2022)

MySonDavid said:


> I would be fine with taxes if our government weren't run by corrupt scum and squandered on bullshit.


I think taxation itself is mostly fair now, but what they're going to is often absolutely worthless. A lot of "experts" talk about how we need more taxes, and maybe we do, but first they should prove they can actually use the tax money they already get.


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## zuG (Apr 26, 2022)

You are taxed by inflation. Inflation encourages you not to hold money because your money is increasingly worthless over time.

Only focusing on the domestic, we could theoretically dispose of income tax entirely and just use inflation, but the government likes to train obedience and so much inflation would cause issues with the USD as a reserve currency. The rapid rate of inflation recently is causing problems internationally.


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