# Why should I be Catholic?



## Blobby's Murder Knife (Jul 12, 2022)

This is a partially serious partially funposting thread. But I am considering converting to RC. I have already been baptized as a protestant. 

RICA normally starts in the fall and I am considering taking the classes. My main issue is with the current Pope. I have never seen such a globohomo puppet in action. How do trad caths reckon with that?


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## PipTheAlchemist (Jul 12, 2022)

You shouldn't be a christcuck in the first place, let alone a Cucktholic. Still, I suppose it's better than being a Proshitant


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## Grinrow (Jul 12, 2022)

Lol you fell for the new "trad" meme trend at least you're not retarded enough to become an orthodox Christcuck


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## Mega Negroid Gyroid (Jul 12, 2022)

Transubstantiation. Pretty cool imo.


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## Cringe newfag (Jul 12, 2022)

What do you mean "should I" convert. It's either real or it's not, correct or it's not. It's a religion, not a fashion trend. Do you believe in their specific version of doctrines? Does your gut say it makes more sense?

If so, do. If not, don't.

The fact that you are thinking that the current pope is an unchristian globohomo agent implies that Catholic ideas that the Pope can be trusted to convey the infallible word of god (even if he very rarely exercises this) are untrue. So you disagree with at least one significant aspect of doctrine (the ability to declare Dogma).


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 12, 2022)

Catholicism is retarded and is more about ritual than the Bible.  I don't know why right wingers are thinking that being Catholic is cool either when most DNC politicians are Catholic.  There's a reason behind that.


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## ICametoLurk (Jul 12, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Catholicism is retarded and is more about ritual than the Bible.  I don't know why right wingers are thinking that being Catholic is cool either when most DNC politicians are Catholic.  There's a reason behind that.


Castro was a Catholic


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## Simony (Jul 12, 2022)

Why are you considering becoming a Roman Catholic? Which Protestant church were you baptized under?


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## Caddchef (Jul 12, 2022)

Secret long held pining  for spiritual structure and sexual assult by skeezy old priests.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 12, 2022)

Why would you ask a question of such gravity on this site and expect insightful or intelligent answers? Ask you nearest priest or do research yourself unironically. This is a not an intellectually oriented site. Don't expect answers that aren't shitposts or blantantly uniformed bullshit.

That being said, if you are really serious about being Catholic, then the best reason for it is that it unironically is the most historically accurate version of Christianity that's also not bound to any particular ethnicity or race. There's a book called the 4 Witnesses: The Early Church in Her Own Words and it goes over pretty much all the dogmas of the Early Church and how they are fundamentally unchanged from the times of the early Church. Which makes sense becuase Protestantism is and always was an overreaction to the corruption of the Church of the 1500s (which was real and denying it is kinda retarded), which made efforts that would have been better used to reform the corruption in the Church into splinter religious groups that preach something entirely different with very little to no historical basis in Tradition. This is where the general tendency of these groups to be ignorant of the medival period, the late and middle Roman Empire and the various tendencies and beliefs within the Church come from which is funny because dogmas like the Trinity and the Divinity of Christ were formalized within this period. It's generally good to be on top of your history, especially in some area where it is important to you on a personal or technical level.

Orthodoxy is fine, my only problem with it is that it tends to be extremely ethnocentric. If you are outsider in Orthodoxy, you will never truly be like the rest of your congregation since you don't share the ethnic or linguistic history with everyone else, which can be a bit alienating. Sure there is the Antiochian Rite, but those aren't common churches in the West IIRC. I'd rather not deal with that.

As for Pope Francis, unironically I don't think he's the greatest Pope ever but there have been bad Popes before him and probably after him. He's not all that special really. At least he's orthodox in his beliefs if generally ineffective.

Also for the trad Catholic thing, don't. If you are going to become Catholic, just go to Mass (even traditional Latin Mass or any other of the more historied liturgies), obey the Church and Savred Tradition and recive the sacraments. Don't do this trad/lib/Tex-Mex etc. Catholic. That's kind of an arbitrary distinction where there needs to be none. Also, if you don't want to be Catholic at the end of the day, that's fine too. Just make an informed decision and don't trust random shitposters for actual answers.



Mothra1988 said:


> Catholicism is retarded and is more about ritual than the Bible.  I don't know why right wingers are thinking that being Catholic is cool either when most DNC politicians are Catholic.  There's a reason behind that.


Because the people in the DNC that are Catholic come from traditionally working class, Catholic ethnic groups that moved to America like the Irish, Italians, various Hispanic groups, etc. Now, they are basically the equivalient of cafeteria Protestants, that are culturally Protestant but don't care much about their religion. That's the same reson why the GOP is full of Christians that love Jews and Israel now even though that level of love for Israel is not only not in the Bible but actively unChristian: no politician is actually religious and uses their religion for brownie points. Or very few of them are.


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## ICametoLurk (Jul 12, 2022)

As long as you follow the One and True Pope, I am okay with you becoming one.


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## Carlos Weston Chantor (Jul 12, 2022)

Being Catholic is the only socially acceptable way to hear Latin spoken and speak some Latin once a week


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jul 12, 2022)

As a "corrupt" Pope, depending on your view of course, Francis is relatively tame.

Other Popes have kept barely legal male consorts, held near daily orgies, sold the Holy office more than once within their own lifetime, proclaimed genocides on entire cities which while Catholic they just didn't particuarly like, stole children from parents and kept them hostage for decades, presided over the world's largest international pedophile ring cover up and infinitely more.

Francis is baby tier. They've had bigger shit to worry about and they usually do with the same mental gymnastics as everyone else; crucially however is that the Pope is only infallible while speaking with "teaching authority" to the Church or Ex Cathedra but crucially....Nobody can know for sure when that is, they can only tell you when he wasn't when another Pope contradicts them.

There's bigger hurdles for most Catholics than that, but it just makes sense if you do the rituals over and over usually.


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## Mayor Adam West (Jul 12, 2022)

As a Catholic my best advice is to really dive deep into the theology of the Church. If you agree with what it teaches, then your dislike for Francis is no reason to remain outside of the Church. However if you don’t agree with what the Church teaches, then you need to really reconsider what you believe before you ever think about joining the Church. Hope this helps and God bless.

Also, we have funny hats.


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## Stabmaster Arson (Jul 12, 2022)

> My main issue is with the current Pope. I have never seen such a globohomo puppet in action





			https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism#:~:text=Sedevacantism%20is%20a%20doctrinal%20position,See%20of%20Rome%20is%20vacant.


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## NeoGAF Lurker (Jul 12, 2022)

I come from a yuge and bigly family of Catholics and most of them have no idea who Francis is. Most Catholics have little or no idea what papal infallibility is either. The downside is that I see every pope being unrepentant globalists from here on out, more concerned about what the World Economic Forum thinks than what Catholics think and has been the case with every pope post-Vatican II. It is what it is.

Why? The church is worth trillions of dollars in terms of money, various riches, and real estate that they don’t want to lose. They don’t want to be on the wrong end of the globalists and again, this did not start with Francis but Vatican II sixty years ago. You will have to realize there will be no baste pope as the whole idea of a pendulum is retarded cope at best. So if you want to be a Catholic, just realize it will be done in spite of the church rather than because of it, which makes you wonder why even bother with it in the first place.

So my advice is to a deep research on the theology and see if it’s worth it because the church is irreparably pozzed and that is how it’s going to be in our lifetimes. So your desire to be Catholic must be with that in mind. Catholicism has a lot to it but tradcaths have no real grasp of the religion and modern Catholicism is dying. So understand that your faith must be strong enough to navigate through all that bullshit. It can be done if you go in both eyes wide open. Good luck.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 12, 2022)

Mayor Adam West said:


> As a Catholic my best advice is to really dive deep into the theology of the Church. If you agree with what it teaches, then your dislike for Francis is no reason to remain outside of the Church. However if you don’t agree with what the Church teaches, then you need to really reconsider what you believe before you ever think about joining the Church. Hope this helps and God bless.
> 
> Also, we have funny hats.


The theology is just plain wrong in many ways regardless.  They like developed their own narratives, such as Mary's perpetual virginity, and that ended up retconning Jesus's brothers even though they are in the historical record.  It's all so stupid.  Orthodox is similar, but at least they aren't handcuffed to the papal hierarchy nonsense.  According to my gf, she mostly learned about "the sacraments" as opposed to the content of the Bible in Catholic school, etc.  The main appeal to internet users over other denominations appears to be aesthetics, something literally inherited from the pagans.  I like the art, but I can't really conceive that as being a reason why the theology could be superior.


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## Blobby's Murder Knife (Jul 12, 2022)

Tomboy Respecter said:


> Why would you ask a question of such gravity on this site and expect insightful or intelligent answers? Ask you nearest priest or do research yourself unironically. This is a not an intellectually oriented site. Don't expect answers that aren't shitposts or blantantly uniformed bullshit.


I didn't, which is why I said it was half funposting. I am actually considering it but have some reservations. I just wanted some different viewpoints, maybe some people would bring up some things I hadn't thought of, particularly from RCs themselves.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 12, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> The theology is just plain wrong in many ways regardless.  They like developed their own narratives, such as Mary's perpetual virginity, and that ended up retconning Jesus's brothers even though they are in the historical record.  It's all so stupid.  Orthodox is similar, but at least they aren't handcuffed to the papal hierarchy nonsense.  According to my gf, she mostly learned about "the sacraments" as opposed to the content of the Bible in Catholic school, etc.  The main appeal to internet users over other denominations appears to be aesthetics, something literally inherited from the pagans.  I like the art, but I can't really conceive that as being a reason why the theology could be superior.


Even Luther and Muslims (which are a splinter group derived from Christian, Jewish and spastic Arab paganism beliefs) belived in Mary's perpetual virginity. It's only within the last 200 years that has been questioned becaue like everything Protestant, it is a protest against established tradition. The word for brothers (adelphoi) in Greek is also translated as cousins or close kin and it is used in other places in the Greek Bible specifically to mention cousins. If they wanted to say blood brothers, they would say philia. This is why I don't like Protestantism: it's low info Christianity that makes any idiots opinon as valid as any others because religion becomes a purely personal deal, not a communal nor cosmic matter. It's why trannies can think they are the opposite gender when they clearly aren't by any other metric and we are forced to agree with them and why #MeToo type shit is running rampant: there is no way to sort the bullshit from the actual fact of the matter. Idiots also deserve to be saved but their opinions should not matter because they are uninformed. This is why democracy is a retarded idea unless you make sure only the people with something to lose can vote.

This is why hierarchy exists not only in liturgy but also in nature and especially in the fucking Bible: God loves mankind but He knows how haughty and prideful they can make themselves and their opinions out to be. Hierarchy basically sorts that shit out and gives an actual litmus test for testing bullshit.


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## PittyKitty (Jul 12, 2022)

In all fairness, despite everything everything else, Jesus teachings are"if you believe in me, you will live in my kingdom ". 

Catholic church, protestants or any other branch tries to capitalise on this without making this a point. 
Im not religious myself, but if i wanted Christian salvation i d just take it and run with it. At the end of the day, the rest is just cosmetic.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 12, 2022)

Tomboy Respecter said:


> Even Luther and Muslims (which are a splinter group derived from Christian, Jewish and spastic Arab paganism beliefs) belived in Mary's perpetual virginity. It's only within the last 200 years that has been questioned becaue like everything Protestant, it is a protest against established tradition. The word for brothers (adelphoi) in Greek is also translated as cousins or close kin and it is used in other places in the Greek Bible specifically to mention cousins. If they wanted to say blood brothers, they would say philia. This is why I don't like Protestantism: it's low info Christianity that makes any idiots opinon as valid as any others because religion becomes a purely personal deal, not a communal nor cosmic matter. It's why trannies can think they are the opposite gender when they clearly aren't by any other metric and we are forced to agree with them and why #MeToo type shit is running rampant: there is no way to sort the bullshit from the actual fact of the matter. Idiots also deserve to be saved but their opinions should not matter because they are uninformed. This is why democracy is a retarded idea unless you make sure only the people with something to lose can vote.
> 
> This is why hierarchy exists not only in liturgy but also in nature and especially in the fucking Bible: God loves mankind but He knows how haughty and prideful they can make themselves and their opinions out to be. Hierarchy basically sorts that shit out and gives an actual litmus test for testing bullshit.


Martin Luther also thought that Revelation should be in the apocrypha.  Martin Luther can be right on some things and wrong in others.  James the Just is Jesus's brother period as per Josephus and Paul and the gospels. Adelphoi clearly means brother in this context.  Your tradition is a lie and ahistorical, and  I'm tired of Catholic mental gymnastics trying to change history.  There's a blood line of Jesus's family through Jude as well that survived multiple generations.

Catholics just want to excuse their Mary worship which is another component of paganism passed down into their theology.  Catholics also thought Mary Magdalene was a whore and that unicorns were in the Bible.  Gnosticism was also a tradition for hundreds of years.  Something being a tradition does not mean it's right, or there would be three heads of John the Baptist instead of one, because of the existence of multiple relics with a tradition.  Catholics even believe in figures like Veronica that were created out of the confusion of what words mean.  The existence of tradition is not an argument.  There are plenty of examples of Catholic tradition beyond that one that are just silly or wrong.

Also I like how "tradcaths" start screeching about stuff like trannies when that's what their Catholic political representatives support, and then in the same breath they condemn "evangelicals" because they are aligned with right wing politics.  Huge cognitive dissonance going on.  The only thing they can do is try to lump in weird mainline denominations into "protestants" as a generic all encomapassing category, trying to erase what the actual evangelicals think that they hate so much.


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## Stabmaster Arson (Jul 12, 2022)

Catholics: Hey bro
Orthodox: How's it going dude
Protestants: HERF DERF FUCK CATHOLICS RARARARA

Every thread like this.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 12, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Martin Luther also thought that Revelation should be in the apocrypha.  Martin Luther can be right on some things and wrong in others.


Okay, but if people that disagree on multiple things concur on one thing for millenia, it gives it more credence than something that was only invented in the 1800s to sperg about how Catholics worship Mary. I give more credence to history than a random sperg when it comes to my religion becuase it there is really no logical reason Catholics would want to ""worship"" Mary for no reason and keep it as tradition for multiple ecumenical councils when multiple heresies, some even more trivial and confounding, were stamped out like Arianism or Monophysim.



Mothra1988 said:


> James the Just is Jesus's brother period as per Josephus and Paul and the gospels. Adelphoi clearly means brother in this context.


Nigger learn Koine Greek. Philia is "blood brother". Adelphoi is "closely related kinsman (which ranges from cousin to half-brother to step-brother depending on the context). No competent writer of Greek would confuse the two. They are entirely different concepts. What you are saying is like saying "They meant erotic love, even though the word they used was not that". And then there's the issue of the fucking Aramaic, the OG language of the Bible disagreeing with you. If James the Younger was Jesus's blood brother, the Aramaic for it would be something like James, son of Mary. Instead we see Jesus's brother, James, which again indicates a non-blood brother relationship. Stop your retarded ass from embarrassing yourself. I read books upon books about this. You literally read the translatipn of a translation of a translation and cane to your uninformed opinion, forgetting naturally, translastions are imperfect ccopies of the original.

On a theological level, it's extra retarded to say Mary wasn't a perpetual virgin since she's the New Ark of The Covenant (since she did carry God in the form of Christ in her womb). The last time people touched the Ark with unclean hands and/or thoughts, they fucking died. Joseph dies in the 30 years between the Advent narrative and Jesus's calling, but based on the fact that he's still alive during the Incident in the Temple when Jesus was 13 and frankly the fact that it isn't in the Bible, you can tell that he died a death that wasn't literal Divine Punishment from God.


Mothra1988 said:


> UNINFORMED  SPERGING ABOUT SHIT YOU CLEARLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT





Mothra1988 said:


> The existence of tradition is not an argument.  There are plenty of examples of Catholic tradition beyond that one that are just silly or wrong.


Please point to me where the Trinity is explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Because that is not there. It's hinted at, but groups like the Arians denied it and it was onlt through Ecumenical Councils that became the basis of Christendom that we have such dogmas. Basically, Protestants rely on Tradition yet disparage it at the same time because they literally have no historical understanding of how Christian doctrine was formed over the milenia.



Mothra1988 said:


> Also I like how "tradcaths" start screeching about stuff like trannies when that's what their Catholic political representatives support


I'm  not really talking about trannies so much as the mindset both Protestants and far leftists have where reality is subject to my interpretation and objective facts and traditions don't matter: they are to be destroyed and replaced with what I feel. This tendency in both camps is eerily similar and really I feel like Protesant groups are some of the most prone to far left thought specifically because is an outgrowth of Protestantism itself. Fundamentally, Protestantism was, is and always wil be a meme. The only debate should be whether to join an Ortodox church or The Catholic Chuch or do neither and become a nonbeliver. Protestantism is basically just nihilism dressed up as Christianty.


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## Alex Krycek (Jul 12, 2022)

I’m not Catholic, I’m a convert to Orthodoxy (raised Agnostic and dabbled in Theravada Buddhism) however most of my dads family is still Catholic and most of the women I’ve dated have been Catholic, so I know a bit more than others and I’m not Hyperdox at all - there are a few Catholics here who can vouch for me on this.

If you’re interested in Catholicism the best place to start is going to Church. There you will meet people far better equipped than random internet people to guide you to the faith or you can decide it isn’t for you. I take issue with certain parts of Catholicism so I chose Orthodoxy but that does not diminish my respect for it and while the office of the Papacy itself doesn’t bother me, it’s how far reaching its powers are that I do not support. This is not to say there are no corrupt Orthodox Bishops either. I just see less potential for their abuses or more scrutiny. That said if you enjoy the community, believe in the sacraments, and believe in enough of the doctrines you should put aside your issues with a current Pope and embrace the faith. It is a big decision to convert trust me. I’d attend regular services for at least a year before I committed to being a catechumen if I were you. I attended Orthodox services for longer than that before becoming a Catechumen.

Someone here said Orthodox don’t treat converts the same. That really depends on the parish and who oversees it. There’s this stereotype that Antiochans are very embracing of converts and Serbs basically ignore them but I’ve seen those positions reversed depending on the community. My Church is more convert than cradle for example.


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## The-Patriarchy (Jul 12, 2022)

Catholics give out free wine at mass.


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 12, 2022)

Religion is for childish and confused people. That is why it is so similar to the LGBT movement. Your cult is stupid, grow up. Find your own way in life and stop trying to use ancient smoothbrain philosophy as a crutch.

Also stop larping. You aren't a medieval knight. You aren't Luke Skywalker. Religion is the highest order of cringe.

The surest mark of maturity and intelligence I respect in a man is that they aren't part of a cult. You christfags are literally just troons of a different color.

Now watch as the spergs rate this dumb and power level etc. because you guys are just as easy to trigger as dumb leftist troons. You cult fanatics are the crackiest of crackwhores.

More pedophiles in Christianity than anywhere else on the planet. You dip naked toddlers in water. You make children drink wine as part of your larp. Degen beyond all belief. 98.7% of pedophiles are Christian. That is a higher rate than the troons.

You're automatically a pedo if you're into this cultist bullshit. Jew on a stick worshipping kiddy diddlers.

If you need a "faith" to guide you in life or some such bullshit then you're simply a weak person. Holy hell even CWC believes in god that should hint at how religion is one big mental illness larp.

You guys really are just troons holding a cross and a bible.

To the OP: if you have even 1/8th of a brain in your skull, you'll get out of cultism and run far away. I know life is confusing and weird and difficult sometimes but being a cultist ain't it homie.

Hell at the very least you could use your mental gymnastics and use something more interesting to pretend is real. Might as well start believing all the Harry Potter books are real or something.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 12, 2022)

Tomboy Respecter said:


> Nigger learn Koine Greek. Philia is "blood brother". Adelphoi is "closely related kinsman (which ranges from cousin to half-brother to step-brother depending on the context). No competent writer of Greek would confuse the two. They are entirely different concepts. What you are saying is like saying "They meant erotic love, even though the word they used was not that". And then there's the issue of the fucking Aramaic, the OG language of the Bible disagreeing with you. If James the Younger was Jesus's blood brother, the Aramaic for it would be something like James, son of Mary. Instead we see Jesus's brother, James, which again indicates a non-blood brother relationship. Stop your retarded ass from embarrassing yourself. I read books upon books about this. You literally read the translatipn of a translation of a translation and cane to your uninformed opinion, forgetting naturally, translastions are imperfect ccopies of the original.


Nah, what you read was a bunch of Catholic apologia and then took it verbatim. No independent Biblical scholar who is not a Catholic apologist believes that the references to Jesus's brothers in the Bible referred to cousins.  It's pure garbage that came later far after the brothers were martyred or dead.  There are examples in the Bible that contradict your premise in regards to how the word was used.  Example:


Matthew 4:18As he was walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers (adelphous | ἀδελφούς | acc pl masc), Simon who was called Peter and Andrew his brother (adelphon | ἀδελφόν | acc sg masc), casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen.

Are you going to suggest Peter and Andrew were not siblings now?



Tomboy Respecter said:


> If James the Younger was Jesus's blood brother, the Aramaic



You're screeching about me being uniformed but you don't even know what James we are talking about apparently.  LOL.  Seriously, how did you make this mistake?



Tomboy Respecter said:


> On a theological level, it's extra retarded to say Mary wasn't a perpetual virgin since she's the New Ark of The Covenant (since she did carry God in the form of Christ in her womb). The last time people touched the Ark with unclean hands and/or thoughts, they fucking died. Joseph dies in the 30 years between the Advent narrative and Jesus's calling, but based on the fact that he's still alive during the Incident in the Temple when Jesus was 13 and frankly the fact that it isn't in the Bible, you can tell that he died a death that wasn't literal Divine Punishment from God.



That's some great Sonichu level fanfiction you got there.  lol



Tomboy Respecter said:


> Please point to me where the Trinity is explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Because that is not there. It's hinted at, but groups like the Arians denied it and it was onlt through Ecumenical Councils that became the basis of Christendom that we have such dogmas. Basically, Protestants rely on Tradition yet disparage it at the same time because they literally have no historical understanding of how Christian doctrine was formed over the milenia.



Well, it is alluded to in additions to John that may not be in the original text.  I will not argue that things that are not in the Bible are neccesarily canonical, but there are examples where Catholic tradition is farcical.  Do you think Veronica was a real person?  Was Mary Magdelene a whore?  You just skipped over those I notice.  lol



Tomboy Respecter said:


> I'm not really talking about trannies so much as the mindset both Protestants and far leftists have where reality is subject to my interpretation and objective facts and traditions don't matter: they are to be destroyed and replaced with what I feel. This tendency in both camps is eerily similar and really I feel like Protesant groups are some of the most prone to far left thought specifically because is an outgrowth of Protestantism itself. Fundamentally, Protestantism was, is and always wil be a meme. The only debate should be whether to join an Ortodox church or The Catholic Chuch or do neither and become a nonbeliver. Protestantism is basically just nihilism dressed up as Christianty.



Catholics produce politicians like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden.  Evangelicals produce politicians that are right wing and are against the things you suggest protestants are for.  No way around this really other than through your reality bending LARPing as a tradcath.



Tomboy Respecter said:


> Fundamentally, Protestantism was, is and always wil be a meme.



Yeah, one of the largest religions in the world is a meme.  Some strong cope there.  The church in Rome, freaking Rome, was never supposed to have supremacy over all other churches.  You had to LARP another non-Biblical history that did not occur to justify that, but it still doesn't make it true.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 12, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> Religion is for childish and confused people. That is why it is so similar to the LGBT movement. Your cult is stupid, grow up. Find your own way in life and stop trying to use ancient smoothbrain philosophy as a crutch.
> 
> Also stop larping. You aren't a medieval knight. You aren't Luke Skywalker. Religion is the highest order of cringe.
> 
> ...


You sound really mad at your parents.  lol


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## Alex Krycek (Jul 12, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> Religion is for childish and confused people. That is why it is so similar to the LGBT movement. Your cult is stupid, grow up. Find your own way in life and stop trying to use ancient smoothbrain philosophy as a crutch.
> 
> Also stop larping. You aren't a medieval knight. You aren't Luke Skywalker. Religion is the highest order of cringe.
> 
> ...


Fedora Tipping and High Horsery. Feels like 2010 all over again.


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## byuu (Jul 12, 2022)

Because it's the hip new thing on /pol/ and friends.
Don't think. Just follow the memes.


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## Freshly Baked Socks (Jul 12, 2022)

The pope is rich, and he owns many things. Not many jobs these days offer lifetime employment, with a built in social safety net. If I was a young lad wondering the value of pledging fealty to Amazon, Google, or The Army... I might take a long and hard look at the benefits of a peaceful and settled life in the employ of the literal physical embodiment of Jesus Christ Himself.


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## Simony (Jul 12, 2022)

Tomboy Respecter said:


> This is why I don't like Protestantism: it's low info Christianity that makes any idiots opinon as valid as any others because religion becomes a purely personal deal, not a communal nor cosmic matter. It's why trannies can think they are the opposite gender when they clearly aren't by any other metric and we are forced to agree with them and why #MeToo type shit is running rampant: there is no way to sort the bullshit from the actual fact of the matter.


We have The Nicene Creed, The Athanasian Creed, The Apostles Creed, The Augsburg Confession, The Bible, and the Small and Large Catechisms to separate heresies from actual doctrine. And Pastors to uphold those texts, bear The Office of  The Keys, administer The Lord's Supper and lead congregations during Mass.

Yes, Protestants do allow for individual interpretation of the Bible, because we believe that our Confessions of Faith are congruent with Scripture and that faithful Christians will uncover Biblical truth through the work of the Holy Ghost. If they don't agree with our interpretation, then that's fine; they can do as they like. But, we won't recognize them as faithful Lutherans. Of course, they are still Christians (if it's as something as minor as Sacramental Union V.S. Transubstantiation and, not essential doctrine like the Bodily Resurrection or the Trinity).

Yes, we do believe in One Holy Christian and Apostolic Church. But that it is completely invisible, and composed of all Believers. Congregations, sects and denominations cannot be the One Holy Christian and Apostolic Church as they are composed of adherent Christians and apostates alike. Questioning the visible church is a constant within Lutheranism, and helps maintain orthodoxy. I seek guidance from my elders and pastors, but my only true authority is my Bible. They are fallible, as men are, and it's my duty as a Christian to rebuke anyone that is speaking against true Doctrine. No matter if they are a layman, or a man in high esteem.

_"Unless you understand these words in this way, you will never understand either this letter of St. Paul or any book of the Scriptures. Be on guard, therefore against any teacher who uses these words differently, no matter who he be, whether Jerome, Augustine, Ambrose, Origen or anyone else as great as or greater than they. Now let us turn to the letter itself."_
-Martin Luther, Preface to Romans


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## Alex Krycek (Jul 12, 2022)

byuu said:


> Because it's the hip new thing on /pol/ and friends.
> Don't think. Just follow the memes.


While I know this is a sarcastic response I did muse about something like this to a friend the other day and while it was over voice I’ll try to paraphrase what I said. For context this is a guy I’ve known for years who is thinking of being Orthodox but isn’t well versed in the faith he just likes the aesthetics and I told him.

“You really shouldn’t do something or commit to something just because it looks cool. If I were doing that I’d be a Tibetan Buddhist for example. Orthodoxy has a very rich theology that can definitely bring immense joy and truth into someone’s life but keep in mind it requires a lot of understanding and prayer as well. You don’t just approach the Priest after Liturgy and ask ‘So when do I get Baptized?’ There are people who spend years as Catechumens. Go to your local Church (preferably not a Greek or Russian one) and attend a few services. The community will likely approach you first and you can join it in time. Again though keep in mind there’s a lot more to this than aesthetics.”

That’s not exactly what I said and the conversation was a lot longer and did involve me explaining aspects of Orthodox theology and dietary practices but that is the spark notes version.

And keep in mind, I’m Orthodox and I’m not trying to convert him, I’m being up front about how there are some things in this faith he isn’t going to expect.


----------



## Terrorist (Jul 12, 2022)

Let’s not forget that Jorge Bergoglio runs cover for pedophiles, something I find to be a far more significant grievance than his politics.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 12, 2022)

byuu said:


> Because it's the hip new thing on /pol/ and friends.
> Don't think. Just follow the memes.


Maybe in the greater "alt-right" or whatever the fuck that nonsense that Nick Fuentes came out of should be called, but /pol/ is non-stop butt hurt about Chrristianity.  The traditional /pol/ ideology is to call Jesus "a kike on a stick" and then drool at nude statues of Jupiter or Thor because very dead and lost pagan traditions that were also imported from the east are supposedly more native than what the people in Europe have actually practiced for 2,000 years.  Overall, /pol/ is retarded and I think this stance is one the things that is greatly alienating people and pushing them even further to the fringes since Christianity is traditional white culture.


----------



## Queen Elizabeth II (Jul 12, 2022)

If you fuckers are spending this much time agonising over the finer points of ehat a dead language means it suggests to me the ultimate and final revelation for all ages was a bit of a failure.

Seeing as nobody actually has a definitive verdict or proof as to what the TROOFPH is.


----------



## Stabmaster Arson (Jul 12, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> You aren't a medieval knight. You aren't Luke Skywalker


Next you're going to be telling me I'm not really black. 

Lol calm down.


----------



## Butterschmalz (Jul 12, 2022)

Cause otherwise you end up in hell. Sandwiched between Adolf and Joseph.


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## kartofel (Jul 12, 2022)

I was raised Catholic and by fairly traditionalist parents. I no longer believe in it, but I know slightly moar about the theological autism involved than a lot of people. Serious answer to OP's question, look into sedevacantism and Vatican II. If you want a full explanation of why the Vatican II is bullshit and the current pope is illegitimate, here is decent site explaining it.

The short answer is that most of the bs in the modern day Church stems from Vatican II. If you walk into most Catholic churches, you won't find a word of Latin, and there is also a lot of fuckery with the physical design of the churches as well.  Try to find a congregation that celebrates the Tridentine Mass. That is the old Latin mass that people have done since the early Church. The sedevacantists essentially believe that the current pope is illegitimate and that there is no valid pope. Tbh, at this point, I'd say that the old joke of "Is the Pope Catholic?", is no longer a joke, but a serious question, because he is doing shit that no valid Pope should ever do, like participate in and encourage idol worship on Church property.

EDIT: I suck at spelling.


----------



## Larry David's Crypto Fund (Jul 12, 2022)

> I applied my mind to seek and to search out by wisdom all that is done under heaven; it is an unhappy business that God has given to the sons of men to be busy with. I have seen everything that is done under the sun; and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind.
> 
> What is crooked cannot be made straight,
> and what is lacking cannot be numbered.
> ...


----------



## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 12, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Nah, what you read was a bunch of Catholic apologia and then took it verbatim. No independent Biblical scholar who is not a Catholic apologist believes that the references to Jesus's brothers in the Bible referred to cousins. It's pure garbage that came later far after the brothers were martyred or dead. There are examples in the Bible that contradict your premise in regards to how the word was used. Example:
> 
> 
> Matthew 4:18As he was walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers (adelphous | ἀδελφούς | acc pl masc), Simon who was called Peter and Andrew his brother (adelphon | ἀδελφόν | acc sg masc), casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen.
> ...





			https://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Did%20Jesus%20have%20Brothers%20and%20Sisters.htm
		

Specifically,


> There is no separate word for cousin, half-brothers/sisters, or step-brothers/sisters in Hebrew or Aramaic.


So the same word that describes cousins, step-brothers and half-brothers describes siblings. And the Bible was originally written in Aramaic so that sense was immediately lost in a language like Greek which had those distinctions, which the Sepatuigaint is a direct calque of the  Aramaic.


Mothra1988 said:


> You're screeching about me being uniformed but you don't even know what James we are talking about apparently. LOL. Seriously, how did you make this mistake?


Are you unironically questioning how Aramiac works? YOu call me an uninformed Catholic but you are unironically too dumb to know how translations don't preserve senses and to get the best translation, you have to go back to the original language. Even fucking Muslims know that. That's why they are so anal retentive about translating the Quran into any other language (although they take that to a new level of autism).



> The only way to designate a "cousin" was to indicate that a certain person was the son of your mother's brother, etc. In Hebrew and Aramaic any kinsman or a countryman was a "brother." This peculiarity of the Hebrew language is evident in other passages in the New Testament that are clearly not speaking of blood relationships. In Acts 1:14 and 16 Peter addresses the 120 disciples [men and women] praying and waiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit in the Upper Room of Jerusalem and calls them _adelphoi._ In Peter's great homily at the Feast of Pentecost he preaches the risen Christ to the Jewish crowds and calls them _adelphoi_ (Acts 2:29, 37). Later when Peter preaches to the Jew at the Temple, he also calls them _adelphoi._ _Adelphoi _(meaning, "from the womb") is the only word used for "brothers" in the entire Greek New Testament. Jesus did not have brothers and sisters, but He did have step-brothers, sisters, and cousins. There is no separate word for cousin, half-brothers/sisters, or step-brothers/sisters in Hebrew or Aramaic. The only way to designate a "cousin" was to indicate that a certain person was the son of your mother's brother, etc. In Hebrew and Aramaic any kinsman or a countryman was a "brother." This peculiarity of the Hebrew language is evident in other passages in the New Testament that are clearly not speaking of blood relationships. In Acts 1:14 and 16 Peter addresses the 120 disciples [men and women] praying and waiting for the coming of the Holy Spirit in the Upper Room of Jerusalem and calls them _adelphoi._ In Peter's great homily at the Feast of Pentecost he preaches the risen Christ to the Jewish crowds and calls them _adelphoi_ (Acts 2:29, 37). Later when Peter preaches to the Jew at the Temple, he also calls them _adelphoi._ _Adelphoi _(meaning, "from the womb") is the only word used for "brothers" in the entire Greek New Testament.



And there's the basic fact that if Mary had other son's why did Jesus put her in the care of John his disciple when he was crucified? It makes zero sense to assume that John would take care of a woman who had other sons to take care of her in Ancient Israelite culture. So even the Bible implicitly is saying that Jesus has no siblings (if he had sisters, then Mary would just got to their husband's house when he was crucified). Your lack of knowledge of how the actual culture that shaped how the Bible is written is so obvious by your lack of basic deduction skills regarding the cultural customs and norms of that society and the language they use. You unironically think Jesus and the Jews of his time were  individuals who acted, spoke and ate like the average person nowadays. This is why I consider Protestantism a meme for the most part: it's ahistorical bullshit that tries to call other more historied traditions "ahistorical". It's a fucking farce.


Mothra1988 said:


> That's some great Sonichu level fanfiction you got there. lol


Nice logical response retard. Surely, your vapid response is more reasonable than centuries of tradition and basic fucking inferences from the Bible.


Mothra1988 said:


> Well, it is alluded to in additions to John that may not be in the original text. I will not argue that things that are not in the Bible are neccesarily canonical, but there are examples where Catholic tradition is farcical. Do you think Veronica was a real person? Was Mary Magdelene a whore? You just skipped over those I notice. lol


Mary Magdalene was never said to be a whore. She was said to be a woman in a state of sin, which means she could be anything from an ardent gambler to a drunkard to a prostitute to a demon possessed lady. It's basically common folklore that she was a prostitute and you can just not believe that if you wish. and St. Veronica is another part of tradition from the Early Church. Cope and sneed. You still haven't shown me where the Trinity is explicitly expressed in the Bible.


Mothra1988 said:


> Catholics produce politicians like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden. Evangelicals produce politicians that are right wing and are against the things you suggest protestants are for. No way around this really other than through your reality bending LARPing as a tradcath.


Ah yes. Because freaks like Jerry Swallwell Jr. and Josh Duggar and Jim Bob are so much better than than Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, especially when they all have a penchant for being sexual deviants and freaks. Retards like you fall for anything and anyone that appeals to their sensibilities yet don't realize they are swindling you for money. These people use religion as a means to get money. They are mostly godless and only invoke Him for a grift and to use the people that actually somewhat believe in God to do their dirty work. Look at the how the Religious Right worships Israel, is fine with faggots like the Log Cabin Republicans in their party so long as they win, doesn't care about the poor and actively swindle them and generally act in an un-Christian manner and tell me they are really better than the Democrats. Sure, they aren't spearheaded by crazy transgenders and women who want to kill their babies, but frankly no major party in the US is centered around Christianity. It's kayfabe to get queers like you to vote for them so they can spend it on hookers and blow.


Mothra1988 said:


> Yeah, one of the largest religions in the world is a meme. Some strong cope there. The church in Rome, freaking Rome, was never supposed to have supremacy over all other churches. You had to LARP another non-Biblical history that did not occur to justify that, but it still doesn't make it true.


1) Catholicism is the largest branch of Christianity today
2) Islam has more followers than pretty much all branches of Protestantism so I don't think you want to appeal to the argument by population
3) Catholicism has 2 milenia of history. Protestantism has 500 years of history and pretends it has more despite archeological, linguistic, cultural and even genetic history denying that. Yes it's a meme, even moreso than a religion like Buddhism or Islam. At least they flat out don't accept the tenets of Christianity instead of pretending they do and denying the most important parts of it with each iteration of it.


----------



## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

@Tomboy Respecter



> So the same word that describes cousins, step-brothers and half-brothers describes siblings. And the Bible was originally written in Aramaic so that sense was immediately lost in a language like Greek which had those distinctions, which the Sepatuigaint is a direct calque of the Aramaic.



WTF are you even talking about now?  lol  The New Testament was written in Greek.  Jesus spoke Aramaic, but unless you are just talking about an original source for his sayings (logia), the language is Greek for the New Testament.  The Septuagint only covers the Old Testament, which we are not talking about at all.

Notice how you didn't address my point about a version of the same Greek word being used to refer to Andrew and Peter, who are brothers.  It only became an issue when Catholics decided to do a retcon to back up Mariaology, but too bad James the Brother of the Lord has too much of a historical footprint to cover up the fact Mary had children with Joseph after Christ.



> Are you unironically questioning how Aramiac works? YOu call me an uninformed Catholic but you are unironically too dumb to know how translations don't preserve senses and to get the best translation, you have to go back to the original language. Even fucking Muslims know that. That's why they are so anal retentive about translating the Quran into any other language (although they take that to a new level of autism).



Well, so far you didn't know James the Younger and James the Just were separate people or that the New Testament was originally in Greek.  So I think I'm winning her as far as knowledge goes.  Like I said before, Catholics don't focus enough on the Bible.



> Mary Magdalene was never said to be a whore. She was said to be a woman in a state of sin, which means she could be anything from an ardent gambler to a drunkard to a prostitute to a demon possessed lady. It's basically common folklore that she was a prostitute and you can just not believe that if you wish. and St. Veronica is another part of tradition from the Early Church. Cope and sneed. You still haven't shown me where the Trinity is explicitly expressed in the Bible.



I'm referring to the mistake Catholics made for over a thousand years conflating Mary Magdalene with Mary of Bethany and yet another woman.  You're apparently so knowledgeable I guess that you don't even know that the Pope admitted that was a mistake 1,400 years later, yet you are still repeating the error here. LOL!  Here, read up, you shmuck lol:



> The portrayal of Mary Magdalene as a prostitute began in 591, when Pope Gregory I conflated Mary Magdalene, who was introduced in Luke 8:2,[6] with Mary of Bethany (Luke 10:39)[7] and the unnamed "sinful woman" who anointed Jesus's feet in Luke 7:36–50.[8] Pope Gregory's Easter sermon resulted in a widespread belief that Mary Magdalene was a repentant prostitute or promiscuous woman.[9][1] Elaborate medieval legends from Western Europe then emerged, which told exaggerated tales of Mary Magdalene's wealth and beauty, as well as of her alleged journey to southern Gaul (modern-day France). The identification of Mary Magdalene with Mary of Bethany and the unnamed "sinful woman" was still a major controversy in the years leading up to the Reformation, and some Protestant leaders rejected it. During the Counter-Reformation, the Catholic Church emphasized Mary Magdalene as a symbol of penance. In 1969, Pope Paul VI removed the identification of Mary Magdalene with Mary of Bethany and the "sinful woman" from the General Roman Calendar, but the view of her as a former prostitute has persisted in popular culture.



Wow a Pope admitting that "Catholic tradition" is full of shit.  Didn't see that coming, did you?  It's almost like un-Biblical "traditions" can be based on fallacies or something.



> and St. Veronica is another part of tradition from the Early Church. Cope and sneed.



Saint Veronica never existed and was literally created due to a misunderstanding of the term Vera Icon referring to the name of a relic.  My point is Catholic tradition can definitely be dead wrong.  She isn't the only mythical, never existing saint either.



> You still haven't shown me where the Trinity is explicitly expressed in the Bible.



Yes, I did.  I referenced the famous and controversial verse in John that's not present in all manuscripts.  I assumed you would know what I was talking about, but apparently not:



> (16) 1 John 5:7–8​*KJV:* 7 _For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost, and these three are one._
> 8 _And there are three that bear witness in earth, .._





> Ah yes. Because freaks like Jerry Swallwell Jr. and Josh Duggar and Jim Bob are so much better than than Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, especially when they all have a penchant for being sexual deviants and freaks. Retards like you fall for anything and anyone that appeals to their sensibilities yet don't realize they are swindling you for money. These people use religion as a means to get money. They are mostly godless and only invoke Him for a grift and to use the people that actually somewhat believe in God to do their dirty work. Look at the how the Religious Right worships Israel, is fine with faggots like the Log Cabin Republicans in their party so long as they win, doesn't care about the poor and actively swindle them and generally act in an un-Christian manner and tell me they are really better than the Democrats. Sure, they aren't spearheaded by crazy transgenders and women who want to kill their babies, but frankly no major party in the US is centered around Christianity. It's kayfabe to get queers like you to vote for them so they can spend it on hookers and blow.



A Catholic trying to accuse protestants of sexual deviation? Are you serious?  LOL.  Call me back when your corrupt church hierarchy stops protecting literal child molesters of the worst possible kind.  You'll never live that shit down.

It's obvious you have never been inside a Baptist church in your entire life and are just going off of eastcoast liberal stereotypes.  You have literally no idea what you're talking about.  At least my criticisms are actually substantive points about theology instead of some bullshit you gleaned form the Daily Show or whatever nonsense that fills your head.



> 1) Catholicism is the largest branch of Christianity today
> 2) Islam has more followers than pretty much all branches of Protestantism so I don't think you want to appeal to the argument by population
> 3) Catholicism has 2 milenia of history. Protestantism has 500 years of history and pretends it has more despite archeological, linguistic, cultural and even genetic history denying that. Yes it's a meme, even moreso than a religion like Buddhism or Islam. At least they flat out don't accept the tenets of Christianity instead of pretending they do and denying the most important parts of it with each iteration of it.



Jesus never said that the Church in Rome, again freaking Rome, was to be the only church.  That's not how apostles operated originally.  There's been non-Catholic churches forever as far as freaking India the pope has had nothing to do with.  I will agree that the church in Rome, home of the pagans that took part in killing Christ, is a church, but the Pope is fraudulent and has no authority, neither does non-Biblical tradition that can easily be fraudulent.  You can be wrong for a thousand years.  Good grief, I already gave you one example above.  LOL.

Also learn what the word meme means, you goof, and stop misusing it.  1 billion protestants is not a "meme."


----------



## Johnny Eastwood cash (Jul 13, 2022)

byuu said:


> Because it's the hip new thing on /pol/ and friends.


If someone wants to become Catholic or orthodox they need to do some research on the beliefs of the two religions before they join their churches  so they can understand there religion otherwise you will look foolish if your going  with your only knowledge of Catholicism or orthodoxy comes from memes on the internet because it will come cross as if you think there religion is only a trend to you


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

Clint Eastwood fan said:


> If someone wants to become Catholic or orthodox they need to do some research on the beliefs of the two religions before they join their churches  so they can understand there religion otherwise you will look foolish if your going  with your only knowledge of Catholicism or orthodoxy comes from memes on the internet because it will come cross as if you think there religion is only a trend to you


Alternatively, you could go to a protestant church where the biggest requirement is walking through a door and sitting in a pew.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 13, 2022)

@Mothra1988 



> WTF are you even talking about now? lol The New Testament was written in Greek. Jesus spoke Aramaic, but unless you are just talking about an original source for his sayings (logia), the language is Greek for the New Testament. The Septuagint only covers the Old Testament, which we are not talking about at all.


It was written by Ancient Jews like St. Paul, so no doubt there are going to be some translations that don't carry over from their native Aramaic to the Greek of the audiences they are converting. 



> Notice how you didn't address my point about a version of the same Greek word being used to refer to Andrew and Peter, who are brothers.


I fucking did and I posted a source. Just because you didn't read how the Aramaic uses the same word for all familial relations and has a linguistic construct that signifies cousinhoodd doesn't I didn't answer it.



> It only became an issue when Catholics decided to do a retcon to back up Mariaology, but too bad James the Brother of the Lord has too much of a historical footprint to cover up the fact Mary had children with Joseph after Christ.


That only problem with that theory (again) is that Catholics, the Orthodox and even Muslims all agree on their Mariology, which points to a more archaic and frankly historied dogma of Mary being a virgin for her entire life and this has been believed since the 2nd century AD at least (so like the 2 or 3rd generation of Christians who may have had near direct access to the Apostles or their disciples). It's especially strange when most of the Protestant Reformers and even major protestant figures like John Wesely of the Methodist Church all agree with this archaic dogma, but somehow Catholics retconned all of it despite it being believed for the entirity of the history of Christianity until the 1800s due to the teachings of one man who isn't even of the same culture let alone linguistic milieu of the original Christians. Ignoring inconvenient facts doesn't make them untrue. You can chant this mantra all you want, it doesn't make it true. In fact, to spite your ignorance, I will cite this book where it talks about Justin Martyr and Iraneus, 2nd century bishops, who talk about the perpetual virginity of Mary. But of course, it was retconned by Catholics. That's why all the evidence disagrees with what I'm saying. 



> Well, so far you didn't know James the Younger and James the Just were separate people or that the New Testament was originally in Greek. So I think I'm winning her as far as knowledge goes. Like I said before, Catholics don't focus enough on the Bible.


Nigger, Catholics originally compiled the Bible. it was basically the work of people like St Augustine, St Jerome and Origen who formally made the Biblical canon we have today (which Martin Luther later cut 7 books out arbitrarily).  If anything, Protestants are ignorant and traditionless, with some exceptions of the high church variety. They don't understand how people from Biblical times thought and acted and fill in the gaps with people that thought and acted like themselves. It's why you heard 5 or 6 years ago shit like "Jesus was a refugee" or the entire existence of the Prosperity Gospel. It's rootless and it's unashamedly so, since the same people that don't understand that every book has a context think that the group of people that compiled the Bible are wrong for reasons that rely ultimately on THEIR OWN cultural viewpoints rather than the ones of the people of biblical times. Muslims can get away with this because they have their retarded fanfiction book and even established their own traditions from it. You can't really do the same thing when you rely on the translations and the work of Catholic/Orthodox bishops from the 4th century AD.



> Wow a Pope admitting that "Catholic tradition" is full of shit. Didn't see that coming, did you? It's almost like un-Biblical "traditions" can be based on fallacies or something.


Wow, So Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute and that was a case of obfuscation? That doesn't matter at the end of the day. She was a sinful woman and the whole point of her discipleship was to show Christ's mercy, no to scrutinize her for what she did in her life. Like I said before, it never mattered what she was or did before she was forgiven. Also, you know there are also multiple Marys in the Bible (just due to it being a popular name at the time). This probably the biggest reason why people believe Jesus had siblings and you just brought up how easy it is to mix up characters within the Bible without any sort of tradition to guide you to see which is which. 



> (16) 1 John 5:7–8​*KJV:* 7 _For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost, and these three are one._
> 8 _And there are three that bear witness in earth, .._


A Nontrinitarian could easily just say they aren't one in substance, but one in purpose. Like the Arians did in the 3rd century AD. And they even use Mark 13:32  to justify this as well:


> Mark 13:32​32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father.


So is Jesus saying that he doesn't know as much as God the Father and thus strictly subservient to Him? These are the type of passages Nontrinitarians used to build up the argument that Jesus Christ is either the adopted Son of God or some sort of avatar for the Son of God. It was Nicea that set the record straight and made it clear that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God in both flesh and spirit. This is why quoting individual passages of the Bible is the mark of a retard: you can justify just about anything by doing that. Fedora tippers make the Bible seem extra brutal that way, shitlibs make it seem super progressive that way, cucksevatives justify their equally dumb beliefs that way. It's a sacred book in addition to a cultural record. The human writers wrote it for human of their times and in that is embedded the eternal word of God. Without some fucking context however, you have free room to justify any thing.


> A Catholic trying to accuse protestants of sexual deviation? Are you serious?


Yes. Yes I am.
It's like there's no magic bullet for protecting your religion against pedos and sexual abuse, considering the massive shitshow that the SBC sexual molestation allegations have shown. I'm not even holding this against Protestantism in particular, since I have seen this shit in Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu clergy. It just seems funny you think being Protestant makes you somehow immune to what you think are Catholic only problems. 



> Jesus never said that the Church in Rome, again freaking Rome, was to be the only church.


Of course. St Thomas went to India like you said and there are other main churches in the Levant. However, Peter was specifically told by Christ that he was the rock that was the foundation of His Church and Peter went to Rome and started the Church there. so unless you think Christ is a liar, then the main Church is in Rome, even if there are other churches. 


> I will agree that the church in Rome, home of the pagans that took part in killing Christ


>pagans
>killed Christ
Tell me how I know you are a Jew simp that doesn't know shit about how Jews have been trying to undermine Christianity for fucking 2 milenia. As if there was any more of a reason to ignore your opinions. Get fucked and read a history book about the early Church or two or three before you sperg like a mindless cuckservative about how you love Israel and circumcisions (even thought that is blatantly unbiblical according to  Acts).



Mothra1988 said:


> Alternatively, you could go to a protestant church where the biggest requirement is walking through a door and sitting in a pew.


Protestant churches are literally just country clubs and social halls. I'm not even saying most Catholic churches aren't  but Protestant churches especially, since if the religion basically puts zero effort into actually inducting you into it, there's no real reason to go to a church compared to say a bar or to any other social outing. That's why all religions worth their weight have some sort of process of ritual and initiation: because it's more than just a social outing. It's fucking communicating with God.


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## WingsOfTarkov (Jul 13, 2022)

You shouldn’t submit to any religion, if you do you’re a fucking retard.


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## Simony (Jul 13, 2022)

@Mothra1988

It's our duty to pray for everyone, including Catholics. They need our prayers especially.

Despite heresies, some of them are still our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I'm very glad that you've accepted Christ, and chosen to preach his Gospel. We need pious men, especially now. Just try to be understanding, haven't we all shameful things which we formerly accounted to righteousness?


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## Simony (Jul 13, 2022)

@Tomboy Respecter 


> Protestant churches are literally just country clubs and social halls. I'm not even saying most Catholic churches aren't  but Protestant churches especially, since if the religion basically puts zero effort into actually inducting you into it, there's no real reason to go to a church compared to say a bar or to any other social outing. That's why all religions worth their weight have some sort of process of ritual and initiation: because it's more than just a social outing. It's fucking communicating with God.


Many Protestants still practice Communion, Confession and Absolution, Baptism, Confirmation, Liturgical worship.

And no, not as ordinances either. It's the literal body and blood of Christ. Sins are forgiven during Confession, by God and through the pastor. Baptism works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the word's and promises of God declare. Confirmation is definitely an ordinance, though.

You'd be surprised if you entered an observant Anglican or Lutheran Church at how identifiably Catholic much of it is. Because we didn't destroy the church, we just purified it.


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

WingsOfTarkov said:


> You shouldn’t submit to any religion, if you do you’re a fucking retard.


True.

Lol at tomboy writing multiple fucking libraries worth of his tardsperging about skydaddy lore. 

Look at all the dumb shit he spammed in the thread and tell me that isn't exactly like how Harry Potter and Star Wars faggots act on reddit.

Good grief religionfags are hilarious and thin skinned monkeys. Just like troons. Any attempt to break their childish delusions is met with autistic cult-like rage.

In b4 "hurr but this one scientist believed in god" 

All religion is false and "believers" ALL know this in the deepest part of their mind. But having been literally groomed and brainwashed into it since childhood, they can't break away. It is honestly very sad from a psychological standpoint. Brainwashing and grooming children is super effective, apparently.

Christfags are 24/7 mati. You guys definitely own chainmail tunics and buy swords online.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 13, 2022)

Simony said:


> @Tomboy Respecter
> 
> Many Protestants still practice Communion, Confession and Absolution, Baptism, Confirmation, Liturgical worship.
> 
> ...


You mean how Anglicans and Lutherans are the source of most of the degeneracy (like gay marriage, abortion, transexuality,etc) and the countries where they are the main state churches, they are mostly irreligious doe to the overbearing and under-delivering tone of a church that's literally state-sponsored?  Or how Low Church Protestants like the Baptists, Presbyterians or Anabaptists are so fundamentally religiously illiterate they don't even understand the traditions of the any church past the Reformation to the point that they have watered down their churches into essentially country clubs with very few actual rituals and a minimal set of beliefs that eventually lead to 15,000+ different churches that split from one another over trivial shit? Nice "purification". It's so pure, it's barely even a religion any more. No wonder globohomo takes a lot of their play book from the Protestant mindset.


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

I would say your gods are dead, but they never existed in the first place. 

You folks got childgroomed into brain rot. Tomboy Respecter was definitely fiddled and diddled by a priest.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

@Tomboy Respecter


> It was written by Ancient Jews like St. Paul, so no doubt there are going to be some translations that don't carry over from their native Aramaic to the Greek of the audiences they are converting.



This is just wrong.  Paul wrote in Greek.  Every learned Jew during that period wrote in Greek.  It's like what English is now in regards to communication.  You conflated the translation of the Old Testament into Greek during Jesus's time with the New Testament which was always in Greek.  There was no translation to conflate.  It's originally in Greek.



> I fucking did and I posted a source. Just because you didn't read how the Aramaic uses the same word for all familial relations and has a linguistic construct that signifies cousinhoodd doesn't I didn't answer it.



I thought we just went over this.  lol  The New Testament was never in Aramaic.  The Greek word in this case refers to literal brothers like it does for Peter and Andrew.



> That only problem with that theory (again) is that Catholics, the Orthodox and even Muslims all agree on their Mariology, which points to a more archaic and frankly historied dogma of Mary being a virgin for her entire life and this has been believed since the 2nd century AD at least (so like the 2 or 3rd generation of Christians who may have had near direct access to the Apostles or their disciples). It's especially strange when most of the Protestant Reformers and even major protestant figures like John Wesely of the Methodist Church all agree with this archaic dogma, but somehow Catholics retconned all of it despite it being believed for the entirity of the history of Christianity until the 1800s due to the teachings of one man who isn't even of the same culture let alone linguistic milieu of the original Christians. Ignoring inconvenient facts doesn't make them untrue. You can chant this mantra all you want, it doesn't make it true. In fact, to spite your ignorance, I will cite this book where it talks about Justin Martyr and Iraneus, 2nd century bishops, who talk about the perpetual virginity of Mary. But of course, it was retconned by Catholics. That's why all the evidence disagrees with what I'm saying.



Mary being a virgin her entire life is wrong and contradicted by the fact Jesus had brothers and sisters as explained by the gospels, Paul and Josehpus (and others).  And honestly, I don't care who was wrong first about it.  It's still wrong.  The canon of Marialogy is a long list of fanficiton, including some made up by crazy nuns who never set foot in Judea.  Also LOL at invoking Muslims.  They also deny the crucifixion and think Jesus made clay birds come to life due to gnostic influence.  Overall, Mary worship is un-biblical.  Show me where Jesus says his mother is an important as he is.



> Wow, So Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute and that was a case of obfuscation? That doesn't matter at the end of the day. She was a sinful woman and the whole point of her discipleship was to show Christ's mercy, no to scrutinize her for what she did in her life. Like I said before, it never mattered what she was or did before she was forgiven. Also, you know there are also multiple Marys in the Bible (just due to it being a popular name at the time). This probably the biggest reason why people believe Jesus had siblings and you just brought up how easy it is to mix up characters within the Bible without any sort of tradition to guide you to see which is which.



"It doesn't matter that Catholic tradition was wrong for 1,500 years."  Wow, okay.  Also stop slandering Mary Magdalene.  Do you not retain things you read?  I just proved she wasn't the sinful woman you were referring to.  They were completely separate people, and you were repeating a debunked error made by a pope in the fifth century.  The only thing true about her was she was possessed by demons and Jesus cast them out.



> It's like there's no magic bullet for protecting your religion against pedos and sexual abuse, considering the massive shitshow that the SBC sexual molestation allegations have shown. I'm not even holding this against Protestantism in particular, since I have seen this shit in Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu clergy. It just seems funny you think being Protestant makes you somehow immune to what you think are Catholic only problems.



The Catholic priesthood is a male child molester factory.  I don't know if this is by design.  It's one of the things Martin Luther was completely correct about Catholics.  Regardless, throwing stones when your church is infamous for what you accuse others of is hilarious.  You may as well be a Nazi accusing other people of antisemitism.



> Of course. St Thomas went to India like you said and there are other main churches in the Levant. However, Peter was specifically told by Christ that he was the rock that was the foundation of His Church and Peter went to Rome and started the Church there. so unless you think Christ is a liar, then the main Church is in Rome, even if there are other churches.



There is no evidence that Peter started the church in Rome, like zero other than Catholic "tradition" of course, which we both know can be very wrong.  Second, Peter shared authority with John and James the Just.  James the Just made the decision at the Council of Jerusalem, not Peter.



> >pagans
> >killed Christ
> Tell me how I know you are a Jew simp that doesn't know shit about how Jews have been trying to undermine Christianity for fucking 2 milenia. As if there was any more of a reason to ignore your opinions. Get fucked and read a history book about the early Church or two or three before you sperg like a mindless cuckservative about how you love Israel and circumcisions (even thought that is blatantly unbiblical according to Acts).



And here comes the 4chan /pol/ faggotry.  Yeah, antisemtism is not compatible with Christianity, Christ is a jew, you dope.  Second point, I never said pagans were the only ones responsible, but you'd have to be an idiot to not think they share blame with the Sanhedrin considering they literally nailed him to the cross.



> Protestant churches are literally just country clubs and social halls. I'm not even saying most Catholic churches aren't but Protestant churches especially, since if the religion basically puts zero effort into actually inducting you into it, there's no real reason to go to a church compared to say a bar or to any other social outing. That's why all religions worth their weight have some sort of process of ritual and initiation: because it's more than just a social outing. It's fucking communicating with God.



And where exactly in Jesus's teachings does he say becoming a believer should have a high barrier for entry you can use to lord over others?  LOL.  The points Jesus was trying to make literally fly right over your head because you're mystified by 4chan memes about aesthetic and tradition.  The guy preached to randos outdoors, from boats, on the street and in their homes.  He even convernted a criminal on a cross next to him.  What about this is hard for you to understand?  This meme from a tract does a pretty good job of explaining your confusion:


----------



## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

lmao me and Tomboy teaming up to double Dumb on people for different reasons is fucking hilarious 

enemy of my enemy and shit

yall religifags still brainrot af tho


----------



## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> lmao me and Tomboy teaming up to double Dumb on people for different reasons is fucking hilarious
> 
> enemy of my enemy and shit
> 
> yall religifags still brainrot af tho


You've literally made zero points on anything other than angry sperging, and you type like you are functionally retarded.  What religion are your parents btw?  Gee, I wonder.


----------



## Cringe newfag (Jul 13, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> All religion is false


Explain how you know that. How do you have confidence in an unprovable negative.


----------



## Agent Abe Caprine (Jul 13, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Martin Luther also thought that Revelation should be in the apocrypha. Martin Luther can be right on some things and wrong in others.


He was right. Letting the plebs read Revelation was a mistake.


----------



## Freshly Baked Socks (Jul 13, 2022)

Cringe newfag said:


> Explain how you know that. How do you have confidence in an unprovable negative.


Watch monkeys fly out of my butt.


----------



## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

Agent Abe Caprine said:


> He was right. Letting the plebs read Revelation was a mistake.


It was still in his Bible, but moved to apocrypha.


----------



## Sparkling Yuzu (Jul 13, 2022)

You shouldn't, you should adopt the particular religion of your ancestors (animism and polytheism).


----------



## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 13, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> I would say your gods are dead, but they never existed in the first place.
> 
> You folks got childgroomed into brain rot. Tomboy Respecter was definitely fiddled and diddled by a priest.


It's like 2010 never ended and the fedora tipping was en vougue

@Mothra1988



> Mary being a virgin her entire life is wrong and contradicted by the fact Jesus had brothers and sisters as explained by the gospels, Paul and Josehpus (and others).


>It's fanfiction despite it literally being tradition for 2,000 years and more credible people than people on Kiwifarms pointing out how the intricacies of the Aramaic language and basic theology disagree with you
Okay sperg. keep on coping. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make not true.



> And honestly, I don't care who was wrong first about it. It's still wrong. The canon of Marialogy is a long list of fanficiton, including some made up by crazy nuns who never set foot in Judea.


Citation needed. Everything from your mouth is pretty worthless considering you are one of those super anti-Catholic Protestants. Even most Protestants I encounter on a day to day basis do not care about the Catholic Church that much. I literally think you just say half of this shit because you are zealous idiot and I don't trust true believer types that spout shit out of their ass with no sort of recourse to reason.



> Also LOL at invoking Muslims. They also deny the crucifixion and think Jesus made clay birds come to life due to gnostic influence.


Are you so retarded that you can't tell the difference between justifying Islam and saying that a belief is so ancient that even a group of heretics picked up beliefs about it? Legit, because this is pathetic argumentation on your part.


> Overall, Mary worship is un-biblical.


No shit. No one worships Mary you fucking faggot. She literally gave birth to God. She's pretty special among woman in that way and even in the Nativity narrative of Luke she's called "blessed among woman".



> Show me where Jesus says his mother is an important as he is.


I never said that faggot. Please don't put words in my mouth.


> "It doesn't matter that Catholic tradition was wrong for 1,500 years."


Folklore isn't tradition. There's also a folk saint that's a fucking dog and a female pope. You can ignore both of those if you want.



> Wow, okay. Also stop slandering Mary Magdalene. Do you not retain things you read? I just proved she wasn't the sinful woman you were referring to. They were completely separate people, and you were repeating a debunked error made by a pope in the fifth century. The only thing true about her was she was possessed by demons and Jesus cast them out.


What fucking difference doe it make if she is or isn't? This is such a retarded minuscule tangent to care about it makes you out to be faggot (which you are but even more than is typical for the likes of this site). That's not point. The point is that she was saved and became a disciple of Jesus Christ. It really doesn't matter what you identify Mary Magdalene as, so long as you see her for the saint that she became.



> here is no evidence that Peter started the church in Rome, like zero other than Catholic "tradition" of course, which we both know can be very wrong. Second, Peter shared authority with John and James the Just. James the Just made the decision at the Council of Jerusalem, not Peter.


Ignatius of Antioch, a man that lived between ~35 - 107 AD, said Peter and Paul gave admonisitons to the Romans. I trust a contemporary more than I trust some random faggot on the Internet 2000 years later who hasn't read any Christian writing of the Early Church outside the Bible.



> The Catholic priesthood is a male child molester factory. I don't know if this is by design. It's one of the things Martin Luther was completely correct about Catholics. Regardless, throwing stones when your church is infamous for what you accuse others of is hilarious. You may as well be a Nazi accusing other people of antisemitism.


Meanwhile, a bunch are still getting molested in the Southern Baptist Convention. You can talk a big game all you want, but make sure your house is clean before you talk shit. Again, I didn't even insult the SBC in that regard because I'm under no illusion that being part of a particular church makes you a better person nor does being a clergy in a particular church. It's fucking idiotic to assume there aren't going to be people that won't abuse their title and use it to their advantage. And Martin Luther was a man with a voracious sexual appetite. Of course he would project his degeneracy onto others.



> Yeah, antisemtism is not compatible with Christianity,


To a degree, it kind of is. I agree e shouldn't go on fucking pogroms killing Jews and the like. But, to be ignorant of the fact that Jews actively demanded Christ be crucified is very ignorant and almost comes off as historical revisionism.


> Christ is a jew, you dope.


No shit. I thought he was an Ayran Ubermesnch.


> Second point, I never said pagans were the only ones responsible, but you'd have to be an idiot to not think they share blame with the Sanhedrin considering they literally nailed him to the cross.


Pontius Pilate actually initially wanted to let Jesus go because he didn't do anything wrong. It was literally the Jews at the Temple that day that said they would rather have a literal murderer set free rather than Christ that makes it retarded to say its the Roman pagans fault for this. Sure, they did nail him to the cross and mock him. But, it was one of the cases where it was literally the Jews that did this and you can't deny that fact for better or for worse. Yeah, that was part of God's plan for salvation but at the same time those Jews could have easily not called for Christ to be crucified. Plus, the Jews probably would have nailed Christ to the Cross themselves if the pagans refused or probably done much worse seeing they were basically forming the Roman Palestinian equivalent of a "summer of love".

 I don't really see any meaningful friendship with the Jews because their religion is solely based on the rejection of Christ. Like why bother playing to their sensibilities? I'm not even really playing into "antisemitism" (which is a bullshit phrase since Semites encompass all the related ethnic groups of the Levant, some of which I don't mind like the Levant Arabs, Maltese people and Egyptians) so much as this is factually what happened. I guess that's the difference between my approach to religion and yours: you are super emotional and justify things after the fact meanwhile I am pretty rational and analyze every aspect of it before I really make a decision.



> The points Jesus was trying to make literally fly right over your head because you're mystified by 4chan memes about aesthetic and tradition.


Bruv, I'm not the one posting fucking anti-Catholic tracts from the 1800s that were literally made due to White Anglo Saxon Protestants being excessively racist to anyone that wasn't white, For fuck's sake there's tracts like these that propose Irish people are more closely related to chimpanzees than the phenotypically perfect Anglo-Saxon. Those are the type of low info pieces of propaganda that constitute literal memes. If anyone is doing that gay "RETVRN TO TRADITION" meme shit, it's you.

I think there's a bit of projection coming from you in that regard, and otherwise you just make a bunch of incoherent arguments based on your preference about about why you believe these seemingly objective facts about your faith is true. This is why I don't bother with idiotic types like you: you aren't curious, you aren't smart and you have no grasp of the sheer depth any topic past the basic level. You base your flawed opinion of "Mary not being a virgin" on what flawed translation. I pointed out why you are full of shit from not only textual evidence, but fucking linguistic evidence and the traditions of various groups that had contact with the ancient Church in one way or another. I admit I was being a bit harsh to all protestants when really I should be shitting on idiots like you, who have the gall to be argumentative but have zero knowledge past what you were told and aren't intelligent or wise enough to check your sources on top of being an over the top relic of 1800s anti-Catholicism. Your rants are hardly convincing to anyone with two braincells and they come across as a zealot trying to shill their retarded beliefs to others. Maybe you see me that way. That's fine, I don''t really care. Just have enough sense to shut up when you best arguments are "I don't believe it even though there's a modicum of evidence  because it's from a group I don't like" or just flat out name-calling. You look more like a pitiful fool than you probably already are.

I don't really care if you believe in something or not. But I do care if you are the type of person that is fundamentally irrational and incapable of debate yet think you have something meaningful to say. You really don't. You're fucking dumb. Just keep your idiocy to yourself so no one else has to be subject to it. if you want to bother me some more, I have a personal account you can DM so we can spare the rest of this fucking thread more autism.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

LOL @Tomboy Respecter being this butt hurt:




How is this wrong, you dumbass?  Anyways my favorite part of this entire thread was you claiming to have read volumes on Bible translation when you didn't even know the New Teatament was originally in Greek, exposing youurself as a liar. Enjoy your autism, I'm done responding because you have no idea what you are talking about.



Sparkling Yuzu said:


> You shouldn't, you should adopt the particular religion of your ancestors (animism and polytheism).



I think you mean the religion of trannies.  If you come from Europe, your ancestors were Christians.


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## Zarael (Jul 13, 2022)

In terms of religious traditions Catholicism is a good one, maybe even the best one. Certainly its theology and philosophy is some of the richest and it's liturgy and cult is theurgy at it's finest. Meditations on the Tarot is an excellent book to get you started on the correct path of Catholicism and not going straight into SSPX style trad larping.


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## Tomboy Respecter (Jul 13, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> LOL @Tomboy Respecter being this butt hurt:
> 
> View attachment 3487357
> 
> ...


Fuck off cunt. I can negrate you all I want. Are you such a bitch that you actually care about sticker? I posted my sources and where how I came to believe what I believe but all you do is sperg like an antiquated religious bigot from a bygone era. I don't really care if you don't interact with me. You're fucking dumb and don't know how to analytically come to any Truth. You're basically on the same level as a Muslim (I'm right because I'm right and this book says so): uncritical and unthinking. I don't like interacting with people like that. I've shit on fellow Catholics for the same thought process you have and gotten basically the same response. Idiots are not good company and your lack of interaction will not be missed.


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## Skitarii (Jul 13, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> I would say your gods are dead, but they never existed in the first place.


YOU'RE DED

POW


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## mr.moon1488 (Jul 13, 2022)

You shouldn't be.  The truest church which still exists is the orthodox church.


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## Ser Prize (Jul 13, 2022)

The current pope is a commie faggot who has undone all the work the last one did to root out pedo priests. Catholics ain't shit until they cast Francis the fuck up down.


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## Conan O'Barbarian (Jul 13, 2022)

All this talk of tradition.  Modern Christians have no way of knowing what traditions are truly from Jesus.  Many books of the New Testament were only written a century or more after his death, further corrupted by the book being translated back and forth between a dozen dialects of Greek, Latin, and Aramaic for several centuries.  And then the Germanics got hold of it.  This change of language from the (often apprentice) monks tasked with creating and translating new copies often resulted in things like unicorns and a simple word with multiple meanings being translated in a particular way and depending on the time period or the nation one particular meaning was treated like gospel over another.  Like the word "brother" or "kinsman" for instance, you spergs.

Other fallible men have been tweaking the Bible since at least the Middle Ages to place the church above God's people.  Adding and excluding books over time because they were on-message for the current priesthood, or they were icky.

Also some talk of Latin being essential when Jesus did not speak it.

Denomination doesn't matter.  The things that make religion "pretty" and desirable do not matter.  You either believe or you don't believe, but there are both Protestants and Catholics in this thread screeching like monkeys about aforementioned corrupted book.  Do you want to associate with either of them?  Read the Bible and absorb the major takeaways because that is the only thing that matters.


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## Zarael (Jul 13, 2022)

Conan O'Barbarian said:


> All this talk of tradition.  Modern Christians have no way of knowing what traditions are truly from Jesus.  Many books of the New Testament were only written a century or more after his death, further corrupted by the book being translated back and forth between Greek, Latin, and Aramaic for several centuries.  This change of language from the (often apprentice) monks tasked with creating and translating new copies often resulted in things like unicorns and a simple word with multiple meanings being translated in a particular way and depending on the time period or the nation one particular meaning was treated like gospel over another.  Like the word "brother" or "kinsman" for instance, you spergs.


This isn't true at all. We have Greek manuscripts dating back to the 2nd Century and they agree with what we have today. The Bible being a "game of telephone" is an atheist fallacy since the Bible was translated into Latin exactly once, by Jerome and then the Vulgate became the official translation of the Western Church and was simply transcribed Latin to Latin. On the other hand the Eastern Church maintained the Greek copies and the NT was never translated at all.

Also your dating of the gospels is way off. The earliest one was Mark written before the fall of Jerusalem dating it at 69 AD at the absolute latest, well within the lifetime of Peter.



> Also some talk of Latin being essential when Jesus did not speak it.


Kind of missing the point there. Jesus didn't speak Greek either and the NT was entirely written in Greek.


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## Conan O'Barbarian (Jul 13, 2022)

Zarael said:


> This isn't true at all. We have Greek manuscripts dating back to the 2nd Century and they agree with what we have today. The Bible being a "game of telephone" is an atheist fallacy since the Bible was translated into Latin exactly once, by Jerome and then the Vulgate became the official translation of the Western Church and was simply transcribed Latin to Latin. On the other hand the Eastern Church maintained the Greek copies and the NT was never translated at all.
> 
> Also your dating of the gospels is way off. The earliest one was Mark written before the fall of Jerusalem dating it at 69 AD at the absolute latest, well within the lifetime of Peter.
> 
> ...


Where do you suppose those Greek manuscripts written 200 years after Jesus died came from?

No.  Jerome compiled other people's translations, texts known as the Vetus Latina, written over a hundred years before he wrote the Vulgate, and in older forms of Latin.

I said "many" not "all."

No point missed at all.  It was brought up that if a church does not perform Latin Mass it's not a real church.  The point was to proliferate God's word to all people around the world in accessible ways was my point.  Keeping Latin Mass is one of those completely unnecessary traditions that serve no purpose other than to keep Mass "pretty."


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> You've literally made zero points on anything other than angry sperging, and you type like you are functionally retarded.  What religion are your parents btw?  Gee, I wonder.


this is the cult sperging im talking about. They think you need to make points against their literal invisible playmates. Mental illness. You definitely got fiddled and diddled by your pastor.

You are mentally ill and got brainwashed into thinking fiction is real as a kid. Waste of oxygen just like any other cultist. Your entire "faith" literally can't be argued against because it is based on fiction, it is unfalsifiable by design, so that's why you just get called out for being a mentally ill cultist who believes in invisible people.

Bahahahhahahahahhahahaha


----------



## EyeGuy (Jul 13, 2022)

Tomboy Respecter said:


> And then there's the issue of the fucking Aramaic, the OG language of the Bible disagreeing with you. If James the Younger was Jesus's blood brother, the Aramaic for it would be something like James, son of Mary.


This is not accurate. The fact that there is no specific term to designate cousins etc. in Hebrew and Aramaic does not mean that the word for brother does not refer to a literal brother when used in context of familial relations (it could refer to a half brother, though). If the Peshitta or the Talmud or any other Aramaic text wants to specify a cousin, they'd say something like בריה דאחוה דאימיה. If not, אחוה is always taken to mean an actual brother. AFAIK there is no case of the Hebrew Bible using אח to refer to a cousin, either, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

Tomboy Respecter said:


> Fuck off cunt. I can negrate you all I want. Are you such a bitch that you actually care about sticker? I posted my sources and where how I came to believe what I believe but all you do is sperg like an antiquated religious bigot from a bygone era. I don't really care if you don't interact with me. You're fucking dumb and don't know how to analytically come to any Truth. You're basically on the same level as a Muslim (I'm right because I'm right and this book says so): uncritical and unthinking. I don't like interacting with people like that. I've shit on fellow Catholics for the same thought process you have and gotten basically the same response. Idiots are not good company and your lack of interaction will not be missed.


This niggersperg is so mati and I love it. 

Watching two brainbroke jesusfags go at each other's throats over fictional characters is some chef's kiss shit.

hurrrr Mary hurr crosses and romans durr magic miracles totally happened u guys derpadee


----------



## Zarael (Jul 13, 2022)

Conan O'Barbarian said:


> Where do you suppose those Greek manuscripts written 200 years after Jesus died came from?


From earlier Greek manuscripts going back to the first century.



> No. Jerome compiled other people's translations, texts known as the Vetus Latina, written over a hundred years before he wrote the Vulgate, and in older forms of Latin.


It may be surprising to you but modern translations also use earlier translations as the base. There are about 6 different modern english bible translations that use the KJV as the base translation with sporadic edits where needed. Regardless this doesn't support the argument that the translations contain errors, since Jerome knew Greek and corrected the NT translations where they diverged from the Greek.



> Keeping Latin Mass is one of those completely unnecessary traditions that serve no purpose other than to keep Mass "pretty."


The liturgy is the core of the Christian spiritual life. Everything hinges on it. If you think aesthetics are the only reason for aspects of the Latin mass you need to go back and reread your Church Fathers.


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## Cringe newfag (Jul 13, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> this is the cult sperging im talking about. They think you need to make points against their literal invisible playmates. Mental illness. You definitely got fiddled and diddled by your pastor.
> 
> You are mentally ill and got brainwashed into thinking fiction is real as a kid. Waste of oxygen just like any other cultist. Your entire "faith" literally can't be argued against because it is based on fiction, it is unfalsifiable by design, so that's why you just get called out for being a mentally ill cultist who believes in invisible people.
> 
> Bahahahhahahahahhahahaha


But you are a sped too though. Because then you say stuff like this:


Jace E. Denton said:


> All religion is false


Athiesm is as illogical as Theism. Agnosticism is the only objectively rational way to think about unknowable-but-hypothetically-possible things.

How do you know we _aren't _in some kind of simulation, and the Simulation Builders aren't actually completely schitzoid and capricious entities like the Abrahamic god? (plz don't be offended if you're real btw, not cursing u God). And that they haven't set up some kind of system by which people can graduate from the simulation if they do certain things? We, in our universe could do such a thing, which means it absolutely would be possible for someone higher up. If we can do it, they can, which means we could be in a simulation (and by extension, any religion could actually be true, with entities from a higher layer with unknowable laws running things according to whatever attitudes they want).

The fact that you are absolutely certain that this entirely possible thing is not real, in the deficit of any actual proof either way, is irrational. It ultimately comes down to just an act of faith.

The correct response to hearing a Christian talking about God is to shrug and go "eh, maybe, dude. I hope that's not true, he seems like a bit of a jerk." (again pls no hell if you actually are there, Yahweh my dude). Not "*I KNOW FOR A FACT IT'S NOT REAL!1!!"*


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## Kickster (Jul 13, 2022)

Best thing of this thread are the heretic cucks triggered by the pope knowing the bible


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

Cringe newfag said:


> But you are a sped too though. Because then you say stuff like this:
> 
> Athiesm is as illogical as Theism. Agnosticism is the only objectively rational way to think about unknowable-but-hypothetically-possible things.
> 
> ...


shut up you autistic nigger

i didnt read a word of your library lmao


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## Boyd McVoid (Jul 13, 2022)

Because it's good to know it's rituals and beliefs to perfection so you can invert them and make black masses


----------



## Conan O'Barbarian (Jul 13, 2022)

Jace E. Denton said:


> This niggersperg is so mati and I love it.
> 
> Watching two brainbroke jesusfags go at each other's throats over fictional characters is some chef's kiss shit.
> 
> hurrrr Mary hurr crosses and romans durr magic miracles totally happened u guys derpadee


You know, we may not agree on religious matters, but watching Prods and Pope-Worshippers argue over petty semantics like particular wording rather than actual doctrine, par for the course really, reminds me of why I rejected both.

Great, you've read up on the meanings of Greek and Aramaic words.  Whether James was Jesus' brother or not _does not change the message and is one of the many reasons the Bible is a man-made work, subject to man's imperfections_.


Zarael said:


> From earlier Greek manuscripts going back to the first century.
> 
> 
> It may be surprising to you but modern translations also use earlier translations as the base. There are about 6 different modern english bible translations that use the KJV as the base translation with sporadic edits where needed. Regardless this doesn't support the argument that the translations contain errors, since Jerome knew Greek and corrected the NT translations where they diverged from the Greek.
> ...


You said "the Bible was translated into Latin exactly once, by Jerome," which is false, and you think I'm the one who doesn't know about the evolution of the Bible?  The Vulgate has its own sordid past with edits long after the author's death, only after two popes dug their claws into it with edits and revisions did it become the official Latin translation in 1590, thrown out, re-edited and resurfaced again two years later (Jerome died in the 5th century).  Granted the second revision is believed to be closer to the original, but nonetheless proves my point that self-aggrandizing clergy have tampered with the Bible many times.

And it's completely necessary in Latin?  A dead language few people learn anymore, certainly not most laypeople? Because of tradition?  Vanity.  You can worship whatever way you like,  The Catholic church enjoys separating the people further from God any way it can.


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## Mayor Adam West (Jul 13, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Martin Luther also thought that Revelation should be in the apocrypha.  Martin Luther can be right on some things and wrong in others.  James the Just is Jesus's brother period as per Josephus and Paul and the gospels. Adelphoi clearly means brother in this context.  Your tradition is a lie and ahistorical, and  I'm tired of Catholic mental gymnastics trying to change history.  There's a blood line of Jesus's family through Jude as well that survived multiple generations.
> 
> Catholics just want to excuse their Mary worship which is another component of paganism passed down into their theology.  Catholics also thought Mary Magdalene was a whore and that unicorns were in the Bible.  Gnosticism was also a tradition for hundreds of years.  Something being a tradition does not mean it's right, or there would be three heads of John the Baptist instead of one, because of the existence of multiple relics with a tradition.  Catholics even believe in figures like Veronica that were created out of the confusion of what words mean.  The existence of tradition is not an argument.  There are plenty of examples of Catholic tradition beyond that one that are just silly or wrong.
> 
> Also I like how "tradcaths" start screeching about stuff like trannies when that's what their Catholic political representatives support, and then in the same breath they condemn "evangelicals" because they are aligned with right wing politics.  Huge cognitive dissonance going on.  The only thing they can do is try to lump in weird mainline denominations into "protestants" as a generic all encomapassing category, trying to erase what the actual evangelicals think that they hate so much.


Hey man. Congrats you won a new car. Why don't you go start it?


Mothra1988 said:


> Alternatively, you could go to a protestant church where the biggest requirement is walking through a door and sitting in a pew.


And how the fuck is that a religion then? I could walk into a church one day and then never show up again and I'd be a Prod.


Jace E. Denton said:


> lmao me and Tomboy teaming up to double Dumb on people for different reasons is fucking hilarious
> 
> enemy of my enemy and shit
> 
> yall religifags still brainrot af tho


What color do you want your car to be?


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## Jace E. Denton (Jul 13, 2022)

Conan O'Barbarian said:


> You know, we may not agree on religious matters, but watching Prods and Pope-Worshippers argue over petty semantics like particular wording rather than actual doctrine, par for the course really, reminds me of why I rejected both.


True. You're also unbaitable it seems but those other rejects both got mati and rage quit the thread which is funny to me. 

Tomboy is still floating around rating things dumb but he is scared to post and scared of me irl because he's a manlet who can't do a single pull-up.

And facts don't care about feelings. Majority of pedophiles are in Christianity in the West. Child molesting cult is all it is.


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## Isaac (Jul 13, 2022)

Christ bought our salvation, not with perishing gold, but with His precious blood. And that is the essence of Christianity; faith made perfect, by Christ, through the Holy Spirit, so that man may dwell with Him once again in his Eternal Kingdom for ever. 

That is essential Christian doctrine, and anything that distracts from it, is a parasite to the faith. 

If the continental reformers were wrong, let them be thrown into the lake of fire. Let God judge the hearts of men, while you labour as his servant and preform your Christian duties. 

Belonging to a particular church is not, and cannot be a spiritual work. Works cannot be communal or shared, and it is not accounted unto righteousness that you fell into the church with upright and sound doctrine. The judgement of God pertains exclusively to the individual believer, good and evil works also. 

Do not lie secure in denominationalism. You aren't doing any favors for yourself about being such sticklers about which nonessential doctrines you like or dislike.


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

Conan O'Barbarian said:


> All this talk of tradition.  Modern Christians have no way of knowing what traditions are truly from Jesus.  Many books of the New Testament were only written a century or more after his death, further corrupted by the book being translated back and forth between a dozen dialects of Greek, Latin, and Aramaic for several centuries.  And then the Germanics got hold of it.  This change of language from the (often apprentice) monks tasked with creating and translating new copies often resulted in things like unicorns and a simple word with multiple meanings being translated in a particular way and depending on the time period or the nation one particular meaning was treated like gospel over another.  Like the word "brother" or "kinsman" for instance, you spergs.
> 
> Other fallible men have been tweaking the Bible since at least the Middle Ages to place the church above God's people.  Adding and excluding books over time because they were on-message for the current priesthood, or they were icky.
> 
> ...


You could maybe make this argument 100 year ago, but there has been plenty of progress in Bible translation, discovery of better source manuscripts, etc. since then.  I think we have a pretty reliable idea of what most of the original versions of scripture actually said now.  There were a tiny amount fuck ups and changes in the Middle Ages discovered later, but nothing that major at all.  It was still pretty accurate to the source documents even back then, but newer translations remove some of the few scribe errors found, etc.


Mayor Adam West said:


> And how the fuck is that a religion then? I could walk into a church one day and then never show up again and I'd be a Prod.


How is the barrier of entry to new congregation being low not make it a religion?  lol  I didn't say you would be an expert at theology or whatever or shouldn't get baptized later, etc, I said you go in and listen to the sermon and try to take in what you are listening to.  And again, how do you think Jesus converted people?



Conan O'Barbarian said:


> Great, you've read up on the meanings of Greek and Aramaic words.  Whether James was Jesus' brother or not _does not change the message and is one of the many reasons the Bible is a man-made work, subject to man's imperfections_.



I didn't suggest it changes the message of Christ or the overall narratives of the Bible.  I just find it annoying, because he was a pretty important early leader of the church and the fact he's a brother is one of the few facts historians agree on because it was confirmed by Josephus.  The fact it was changed mostly for political reasons, imo, regarding the Catholic Church instead of just a mistake that was made makes it worse imo.


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## Stan (Jul 13, 2022)

Don’t be a virgin Catholic, be a Chad Episcopalian. Benefits:

1. Trusted to read Bible yourself and form your own questions, build meaningful relationship with God
Catholics: don’t/can’t read Bible, need Daddy Pope to tell them what it says and how to live their lives

2. Priests can marry ethically
Catholics: priests are pedos and closeted faggots

3. Women in the pulpit
Catholics: too homosexual to accept women’s receipt of the news of the resurrection, women’s devotion to Christ

4. Democratic governance
Catholic: gay empire of old fags in Italian shoes

5. Engaging and meaningful liturgy
Catholic: some guy mumbling in Latin

6. Created so Chad King Henry no longer had to bend the knee to Daddy Pope
Catholics: hurr durr y u no pay us n e mor??

7. Religion of American Presidents 
Catholics: religion of guidos


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## Mothra1988 (Jul 13, 2022)

Stan said:


> Don’t be a virgin Catholic, be a Chad Episcopalian. Benefits:
> 
> 1. Trusted to read Bible yourself and form your own questions, build meaningful relationship with God
> Catholics: don’t/can’t read Bible, need Daddy Pope to tell them what it says and how to live their lives
> ...



Catholic priests not being able to marry has to be the dumbest shit ever.  These people claim to be descended from a lineage going back to Peter (which is probably not completely true, but let's just pretend it is for this instance).  Peter was married and had children.  When Paul talks about his celibacy, it's in the context of him saying it was a choice and that God is happy with people that marry and have children as well.

However, then the Catholic Church suddenly demands all their priests be celibate and never enter into relationships with women even though Jesus, etc. said marriage was good.  What happens?  Well, you end up with a lot of socially-unadjusted males who accept the fact they can never have sexual relationships with adults and are fine with that.  Who does that leave as a bigger part of their population than should be?  A bunch of child touchers of coruse.  Luther was completely right about calling this practice stupid, and I think marrying a nun (the modern version of the Roman Vestal Virgin) was one of the cooler things he did.


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## Alex Krycek (Jul 13, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Catholic priests not being able to marry has to be the dumbest shit ever.  These people claim to be descended from a lineage going back to Peter (which is probably not completely true, but let's just pretend it is for this instance).  Peter was married and had children.  When Paul talks about his celibacy, it's in the context of him saying it was a choice and that God is happy with people that marry and have children as well.
> 
> However, then the Catholic Church suddenly demands all their priests be celibate and never enter into relationships with women even though Jesus, etc. said marriage was good.  What happens?  Well, you end up with a lot of socially-unadjusted males who accept the fact they can never have sexual relationships with adults and are fine with that.  Who does that leave as a bigger part of their population than should be?  A bunch of child touchers of coruse.  Luther was completely right about calling this practice stupid, and I think marrying a nun (the modern version of the Roman Vestal Virgin) was one of the cooler things he did.


There have always been a few married Latin Clergy but it is true that they are exceptions not the rule. In Orthodoxy we generally have Married Priests, the exception of course being Monastics however a Priest cannot marry after Ordination and may not remarry once he is a widower. It is generally expected that a widowed Priest will take Monastic vows after his children have grown up and he will leave all of his possessions to them. That’s not to say it’s a rule or even universally done but it does often happen. 

I do take issue with Catholics being more strict about clerical celibacy but not strongly so. A cousin of mine is a Catholic Priest and has basically been married to the same woman for almost 20 years. I don’t understand why they can’t just make it formal and he renounce his Priesthood while not being excommunicated.


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## Stan (Jul 14, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Catholic priests not being able to marry has to be the dumbest shit ever.


Historically the reasoning for this is to prevent the priest’s children from inheriting church property. There were plenty of priests who had children, who were then publicly recognized as that priests “nephew/niece”. I doubt that the Catholic Church will ever reverse opinion on priestly marriage though, since it’s been canon law since the 2nd century AD or so. 

Practically, the effect of preventing clergy from marrying was also to attract men who did not want to get married to the priesthood. Gay men (and pedos) in particular might have found this attractive if the alternative was to marry.

Episcopal religious orders (monks/nuns) still do  take vows of celibacy, but these people are generally not in the same position of power as a priest enjoys within their own parish.


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## WonderWino (Jul 14, 2022)

The-Patriarchy said:


> Catholics give out free wine at mass.


Plus gluten free, ethically sourced, fair trade, vegan communion wafers

and don't forget the free homeless shelter food that you don't even have to be catholic to get, just ask the wern, i'm sure he eats enough to feed 4 medieval cardinals during an easter feast at every meal

But the biggest reason to become a catholic is obvious - if you go all the way with it, become a priest and work your way up the ranks and get yourself elected pope you would literally have your own country to rule with an iron fist, right in the heart of sunny italy, and you could call for crusades against anyone who pisses you off and issue papal bulls with all kinds of crazy things in them to piss people off


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## Zarael (Jul 15, 2022)

The same people who say Catholic Priests being celibate is retarded are the ones who claim Buddhist monks being celibate is based. Maybe more people should reflect on why celibacy is a universal religious virtue rather than falling into Freudian frameworks about how sexual repression is bad. You'd think the modern world would be enough to convince people that Freud was completely wrong about sexual repression theory but we still have people claiming that keeping the most powerful biological urge under control of the rational mind is a bad thing.


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## Bass (Jul 16, 2022)

Alex Krycek said:


> . Go to your local Church (preferably not a Greek or Russian one)


As a man who is of an ethnicity that gets confused with Russians a lot, what's wrong with a Russian church?


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## Quiet Guy (Jul 17, 2022)

@Tomboy Respecter I don't want to restart any hostilities, but what about this verse?

Matthew 1:24-25 (ESV)
When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

It says Joseph "knew her not until she had given birth to a son," which seems to be referring to consummating their marriage, and I don't see any contradiction about this as far as the Greek goes after a brief search. I'm not missing any subtext in the Greek am I?



Tomboy Respecter said:


> Adelphoi is "closely related kinsman (which ranges from cousin to half-brother to step-brother depending on the context).


Wouldn't adelphoi still arguably be appropriate for any of Mary's other children, since those begotten by Joseph could be considered half-siblings?

Also, be careful not to go too far with traditions; remember that is one of the things Jesus condemned the Pharisees for...


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jul 21, 2022)

You shouldn't
End thread

Fuck the Pope
Gustav Adolf did nothing wrong


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jul 21, 2022)

Mothra1988 said:


> Catholic priests not being able to marry has to be the dumbest shit ever.  These people claim to be descended from a lineage going back to Peter (which is probably not completely true, but let's just pretend it is for this instance).  Peter was married and had children.  When Paul talks about his celibacy, it's in the context of him saying it was a choice and that God is happy with people that marry and have children as well.
> 
> However, then the Catholic Church suddenly demands all their priests be celibate and never enter into relationships with women even though Jesus, etc. said marriage was good.  What happens?  Well, you end up with a lot of socially-unadjusted males who accept the fact they can never have sexual relationships with adults and are fine with that.  Who does that leave as a bigger part of their population than should be?  A bunch of child touchers of coruse.  Luther was completely right about calling this practice stupid, and I think marrying a nun (the modern version of the Roman Vestal Virgin) was one of the cooler things he did.


Even leaving child touching aside (which to be honest is real overblown, it's not that Catholics did more of it, it's that God's business managers shuffled them around and tried to cover it up), a Pentecostal pastor once pointed out that a preacher has to give advice on all kinds of life subjects, including marriage and childraising, which is something the Bible promotes, so the preacher had better know what he's talking about.

Then you've got Catholicism, which outright bans people with that perspective because tHeIr CoNgReGaTiOn Is ThEiR fAmIlY (lol).


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## ICametoLurk (Jul 21, 2022)

Being a Catholic is only Special Brownie Points if you're British or in a Muslim nation. 

Long are the days when the KKK would burn crosses in front of your lawn. If anything being a Protestant is looked down upon because of how normal it is in the USA and Europe...like you get viewed as a Trump Supporter despite the fact that Born Agains voted for Obama and Atheists voted for Trump.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Jul 23, 2022)

ICametoLurk said:


> despite the fact that Born Agains voted for Obama and Atheists voted for Trump.


Evangelicals are blindly loyal to the Republican Party. No matter who's running. Despite not even pretending to be a Christian, unlike previous Republican candidates, Evangelicals still overwhelmingly voted for Trump


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## Blobby's Murder Knife (Jul 28, 2022)

ICametoLurk said:


> Being a Catholic is only Special Brownie Points if you're British or in a Muslim nation.
> 
> Long are the days when the KKK would burn crosses in front of your lawn. If anything being a Protestant is looked down upon because of how normal it is in the USA and Europe...like you get viewed as a Trump Supporter despite the fact that Born Agains voted for Obama and Atheists voted for Trump.


Something that always puzzled me is why many people I have known in life have claimed Catholics aren't Christians and visa versa. They all believe in the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity. They have some differing ideas on salvation, but at the end of the day, you average Methodist has more in common with a Catholic than with a Muslim or African Witch Doctor.


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## Passing Through Town (Jul 29, 2022)

I would advise against being Catholic on the basis that 1) It's an intensely flawed institution that many people would have to dedicate their lives to in order to fix, assuming it's even possible to do so, 2) The Catholic Church claims to be unchanging, but Vatican II clearly demonstrates that's not the case, and 3) Catholicism isn't an institution which can bring out any meaningful change in modern society unless its many problems are solved. But I suppose if you agree with them theologically then you may as well join up, since it'd be better than nothing.


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## Space_Dandy (Aug 1, 2022)

Kvervandi said:


> Something that always puzzled me is why many people I have known in life have claimed Catholics aren't Christians and visa versa. They all believe in the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity. They have some differing ideas on salvation, but at the end of the day, you average Methodist has more in common with a Catholic than with a Muslim or African Witch Doctor.


Its because of the role of the Church in Catholicism. Catholics believe in 'Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus', there is no salvation outside the Church. Whereas Protestants believe in a personal relationship with God not reliant upon any earthly institution: 'There is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.' 1 Timothy 2:5.


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## Uriah (Aug 1, 2022)

Space_Dandy said:


> Its because of the role of the Church in Catholicism. Catholics believe in 'Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus', there is no salvation outside the Church. Whereas Protestants believe in a personal relationship with God not reliant upon any earthly institution: 'There is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.' 1 Timothy 2:5.


The invisible church is comprised of believers, and is present wherever the gospel is administered. The Visible Church is comprised of believers, unbelievers and is a regular institution. There is only one church, the Invisible Church.

However, we must still observe the three Sacraments unwaveringly.


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## Space_Dandy (Aug 1, 2022)

Uriah said:


> The invisible church is comprised of believers, and is present wherever the gospel is administered. The Visible Church is comprised of believers, unbelievers and is a regular institution. There is only one church, the Invisible Church.
> 
> However, we must still observe the three Sacraments unwaveringly.


That's awful nice of you to say, and you are probably correct from a doctrine perspective. However, it doesn't change the fact that Catholics as a whole (probably moreso in the old days than today but the perception remains) looks upon protestants as unsaved heretics because of their non-membership. And also many protestants view the Catholic requirement of inserting functions of man as requisites for salvation, as being indicative of a lack of salvation.

Then there's Pope Francis' famous quote: "There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations." Its obvious what he really meant, and he wasn't talking about the 'invisible church.' He is saying that you can't simply read the Bible and serve God, you _need _the Catholic church's intercessions.


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## Mothra1988 (Aug 1, 2022)

PipTheAlchemist said:


> Evangelicals are blindly loyal to the Republican Party. No matter who's running. Despite not even pretending to be a Christian, unlike previous Republican candidates, Evangelicals still overwhelmingly voted for Trump


Did Trump deliver for Evangelicals or not?  Who delivered for Evangelicals more than Trump?  I don't think criticisms like this understand how those people think.  They vote for people who they think are actually going to do what they say in regards to their issues.

Also I like how alt-right types are moving towards Catholicism despite the fact that Catholics are pretty pro-Democrat, while simultaneously attacking Evangelicals/born-agains/fundies whatever they want to call them who are actually one of the few power bases for the right in the United States.  Really gets the noggin jogging.


Space_Dandy said:


> That's awful nice of you to say, and you are probably correct from a doctrine perspective. However, it doesn't change the fact that Catholics as a whole (probably moreso in the old days than today but the perception remains) looks upon protestants as unsaved heretics because of their non-membership. And also many protestants view the Catholic requirement of inserting functions of man as requisites for salvation, as being indicative of a lack of salvation.
> 
> Then there's Pope Francis' famous quote: "There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations." Its obvious what he really meant, and he wasn't talking about the 'invisible church.' He is saying that you can't simply read the Bible and serve God, you _need _the Catholic church's intercessions.


Jesus never went to Rome.  Pretty sure the people Jesus personally saved according to the gospels didn't need all that bureaucratic nonsense invented by an ex-Pagan regime.


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## Spamton G. Spamton (Aug 1, 2022)

There are many reasons, my friend, but perhaps the most pressing are the numerous miracles observed that point to The Church having authority. Those being Eucharistic Miracles and Our Lady of Fatima/the Miracle of the Sun. I'll link two good videos on these below. While there are many other miracles I could discuss (Our Lady of Akita, the miracles of St. Padre Pio, etc), these two are the most self evident. Eucharistic Miracles prove transubstantiation, while the Miracle of the Sun was seen by 30,000 people, believers and nonbelievers alike. Even if miracles are hard to believe in, these are the most well documented and well researched supernatural phenomenon to date. All Truth is revealed, so miracles are important for understanding God's will.

You'll also be in my prayers friend. Listen to what God is telling you to do above all else.



Spoiler: Miracles












Somewhat related


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Aug 1, 2022)

The other day I learned that Catholicism has a saint called Saint Expeditus, saint of getting things done (in bureaucracy) fast.

You can't make this shit up.


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## Raoul_Duke (Aug 2, 2022)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> The other day I learned that Catholicism has a saint called Saint Expeditus, saint of getting things done (in bureaucracy) fast.
> 
> You can't make this shit up.


Well, couldn't hurt to pray to St. Expeditus at the DMV, then. Or the tax office. Or any government building, business, ice cream stand...


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Aug 2, 2022)

Traincake said:


> Well, couldn't hurt to pray to St. Expeditus at the DMV, then. Or the tax office. Or any government building, business, ice cream stand...


Or in the middle of Mass.
I actually did go to a Mass, for the first time in my life, this Sunday.


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## Larry David's Crypto Fund (Aug 2, 2022)

Traincake said:


> Well, couldn't hurt to pray to St. Expeditus at the DMV, then. Or the tax office. Or any government building, business, ice cream stand...


Or while petitioning the church for an annulment after you've had 5 kids...


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## Table Country (Aug 14, 2022)

You shouldn't, you papist dog.


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