# Paypal to charge $2500 or more for “bad speech”



## reptile baht spaniard rid (Oct 2, 2022)

https://www.paypalobjects.com/marketing/ua/pdf/US/en/acceptableuse-full-110322.pdf
		


You are independently responsible for complying with all applicable laws in all of your actions related to your use of PayPal's services, regardless of the purpose of the use. In addition, you must adhere to the terms of this Acceptable Use Policy. Violation of this Acceptable Use Policy constitutes a violation of the PayPal User Agreement and may subject you to damages, including liquidated damages of $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation, which may be debited directly from your PayPal account(s) as outlined in the User Agreement (see “Restricted Activities and Holds” section of the PayPal User Agreement).

5. involve the sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials that, in PayPal’s sole discretion, (a) are harmful, obscene, harassing, or objectionable, (b) depict or appear to depict nudity, sexual or other intimate activities, (c) depict or promote illegal drug use, (d) depict or promote violence,  criminal activity, cruelty, or self-harm (e) depict, promote, or incite hatred or discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics (e.g. race, religion, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, etc.) (f) present a risk to user safety or wellbeing, (g) are fraudulent, promote misinformation, or are unlawful, (h) infringe the privacy, intellectual property rights, or other proprietary rights of any party, or (i) are otherwise unfit for publication.

Wowzers this is a fun one hah!


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## Colon capital V (Oct 2, 2022)

Yknow, maybe crypto isn't such a bad idea after all.


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## Car Won't Crank (Oct 2, 2022)

Youngrippa59 from the comicsgate thread better find an alternative payment processor soon.


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## eDove (Oct 2, 2022)

And I just deleted my PayPal account last month. Null's right about this company.


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## Stabmaster Arson II (Oct 2, 2022)

What the fuck, they mean forum owners with PayPal donate buttons, or just end users with random PayPal accounts? What the fuck?


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Oct 2, 2022)

Charging people for violating an EULA? Is that even legal? Has anyone ever had the audacity to TRY something like this?


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## reptile baht spaniard rid (Oct 2, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> What the fuck, they mean forum owners with PayPal donate buttons, or just end users with random PayPal accounts? What the fuck?


I think it’s for sellers/businesses - basically if Null were using PayPal they would be able to say “er no” and just take everything.


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## Postal_Rat (Oct 2, 2022)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Charging people for violating an EULA? Is that even legal? Has anyone ever had the audacity to TRY something like this?


Even if it isn't legal good luck suing PayPal you might be right but I'm sure it will cost more than you will ever collect


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## Save the Loli (Oct 2, 2022)

> involve the sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials that, in PayPal’s sole discretion, (a) are harmful, obscene, harassing, or objectionable[...](b) depict or appear to *depict nudity, sexual or other intimate activities*


This is gonna wreck so many furry porn artists lmao. Like imagine getting a $2,500 fine every time someone pays you over Paypal for a picture of anthro foxes having buttsex.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Oct 2, 2022)

Save the Loli said:


> This is gonna wreck so many furry porn artists lmao. Like imagine getting a $2,500 fine every time someone pays you over Paypal for a picture of anthro foxes having buttsex.


Whatever else is going on here, banning porn is usually a suicide note. It happened to Tumblr. It happened to Betamax. It can happen to Paypal.

Let's give it a minute to see who's willing to take all that sweet, degenerate money.


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## Agent Abe Caprine (Oct 3, 2022)

Colon capital V said:


> Yknow, maybe crypto isn't such a bad idea after all.


Paypal accepts crypto.


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## Fuzzy Sweetheart (Oct 3, 2022)

Stabmaster Arson II said:


> What the fuck, they mean forum owners with PayPal donate buttons, or just end users with random PayPal accounts? What the fuck?


If you’ve ever said nigger online you owe them money.


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## Brickleberry NationalPark (Oct 3, 2022)

Car Won't Crank said:


> Youngrippa59 from the comicsgate thread better find an alternative payment processor soon.


I believe he only is using/accepting paypal for international orders at the moment. He was shifting away from them after they tried to seize his money, not allowing it to be available to him despite it being legal and directed to him in exchange for a product. Welp, he'll need to expedite that move for international for sure.


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## Retink Retunk (Oct 3, 2022)

Ok, paypal as a company needs to not exist.



Postal_Rat said:


> Even if it isn't legal good luck suing PayPal you might be right but I'm sure it will cost more than you will ever collect


Class actions might actually be enough to bankrupt them if they're too retarded with their money seizing.


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## Colonel Slanders (Oct 3, 2022)

The problem is that most people never read the EULA or use terms. This will just be a nasty little weapon in the back pocket of trannies, lefties and BLM types. "in PayPal’s sole discretion" is a very dangerous term indeed. Anything from "Dude weed lmao" to "I dont want trannies sending my child bathtub troonshine and cat collars in the post" is on the table. In a world where whatever manic troon shouts loudest wins... Dangerous.


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## Fascist Frederick (Oct 3, 2022)

@SandyCat I now owe paypal $300,000 because you're a nigger and I pointed it out a few times. Thanks a lot.

EDIT: Goddamn it, it just went up again, now I owe $302,500.


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## WULULULULU (Oct 3, 2022)

Retink Retunk said:


> Class actions might actually be enough to bankrupt them if they're too retarded with their money seizing.


It's literally run by Elon Musk, you really think it will be bankrupted to oblivion?


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## PaulBearer (Oct 3, 2022)

WULULULULU said:


> It's literally run by Elon Musk, you really think it will be bankrupted to oblivion?


I'm not sure that's entirely true you know?


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## Retink Retunk (Oct 3, 2022)

WULULULULU said:


> It's literally run by Elon Musk, you really think it will be bankrupted to oblivion?


I don't think Musk has any involvement with Paypal at this point and even if he did he doesn't actually have as much money and power as people think. 





Though if you want to know how badly a lawsuit can go for a company, look up 3M who might potentially actually have to pay out 82 billion dollars because of faulty ear plugs, and they're trying to break up the company by making a spinoff literally called SpinCo in case they actually lose that class action.


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## Agent Abe Caprine (Oct 3, 2022)

Colonel Slanders said:


> The problem is that most people never read the EULA or use terms. This will just be a nasty little weapon in the back pocket of trannies, lefties and BLM types. "in PayPal’s sole discretion" is a very dangerous term indeed. Anything from "Dude weed lmao" to "I dont want trannies sending my child bathtub troonshine and cat collars in the post" is on the table. In a world where whatever manic troon shouts loudest wins... Dangerous.


No one has time to read a legalese novel. I have more important things to do.


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## Neurotypical Mantis (Oct 3, 2022)

now i know why all the egirls and grifters went to cashapp and venmo


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## Trout P (Oct 3, 2022)

Neurotypical Mantis said:


> now i know why all the egirls and grifters went to cashapp and venmo


Somebody better check the Venmo EULA since they're owned by PayPal.


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## Hunter Diego (Oct 3, 2022)

Shit, I already pay the government to let me say Nigger, now I have to pay the Payment Processors too. Literally 1984


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## GiveMeTheMoney (Oct 3, 2022)

1984 is approaching faster than I can keep track.


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## YachieKicchou (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Whatever else is going on here, banning porn is usually a suicide note. It happened to Tumblr. It happened to Betamax. It can happen to Paypal.


Paypal has had porn banned since forever. I think at least a decade if not more. It's why when you go to pay for goods and services anyone engaging with it will explicitly tell you to NEVER use the notes system because Paypal has an algorithim that tries to figure out what it is you purchased based on what you put in there.


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## Kosher Dill (Oct 3, 2022)

Well, they're not policing off-service activity (_yet_) but "activities that involve sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials" is still a pretty broad brush.
In particular, the part about "depict or promote violence, criminal activity, cruelty, or self-harm". In Paypal's sole discretion, they can fine you $2500 a pop for buying action movies on DVD. Of course they won't do that most of the time, but sometimes you need to use _discretion_. 

If you _must_ use Paypal, it's probably safest not to buy or sell anything that has artistic content of any kind.


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## Nick Gars (Oct 3, 2022)

Ya know, being a payment processor should be the easiest job in the world. You take money from one jackoff, and give it to the other jackoff he wants it to go to for a small fee. Easy fucking money.


But noooooooo, it's _ so_ fucking smart to literally just say "fuck being a middleman"  and steal the money outright because "he dun said sum bad words I dunt like" or "I dunt like his politics".

God damnit, I need to buy more rope.


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## Secret Asshole (Oct 3, 2022)

Nick Gars said:


> Ya know, being a payment processor should be the easiest job in the world. You take money from one jackoff, and give it to the other jackoff he wants it to go to for a small fee. Easy fucking money.
> 
> 
> But noooooooo, it's _ so_ fucking smart to literally just say "fuck being a middleman"  and steal the money outright because "he dun said sum bad words I dunt like" or "I dunt like his politics".
> ...


Its more about control. And making your own payment processor is almost borderline impossible. You need at least a hundred million, have to apply internationally and have to abide by mandated rules. Yes, you need all of that just to make sure one asshole gets money from another asshole.

The only good part about crypto is cutting these fucking cunts out of the picture. Middle-management has been humanity's biggest mistake. There's nothing more useless than a middle manager.


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## The Last Stand (Oct 3, 2022)

Who defines "bad speech" and what is considered "bad speech?"


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## Doppelmonger (Oct 3, 2022)

You know what? The idea of a Kiwi Bank as Null has pitched on some streams must happen at this point.

_Powered by Sneedcard™_


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## wtfNeedSignUp (Oct 3, 2022)

Why not go full South Park and give Paypal the right to surgically graft your mouth into another person's ass for identifying as right wing?


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## WhatIsThePunchline (Oct 3, 2022)

Recently Paypal blocked all accounts of Toby Young, his private account, his publishing account, and the account he used for the _*Free Speech Union*_, an activist organization giving support to people being targeted for supression. No explanation, just some vague mumbling about terms of service. 

That last one became a bit to much even for normies, people started talking, politicians started talking, and Paypal walked the fuck back. Not that the Free Speech Union is going to continue using them after that shit. 

However it's not the first organization they've banned. It seems to be pretty common for them as a matter of fact. I gather the paypal CEO is very much into strangling peoples ability to express themselves.


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## byuu (Oct 3, 2022)

The future is now.


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## AgendaPoster (Oct 3, 2022)

Colon capital V said:


> Yknow, maybe crypto isn't such a bad idea after all.


All you have to do is use a different persona and email for Paypal.
However, for their misdeeds, the corporation should be nationalized and the leadership (and HR department) tar&feathered.


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## WolfeTone (Oct 3, 2022)

Gee, I wonder what's happening with PayPal in the year 2022- DEAR LORD!!!


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## TakeSoma (Oct 3, 2022)

PayPal has always been a greedy piece of shit corporation that blocks and keeps money at their own discretion. At this stage they should just use the happy merchant as their logo, since it's the full embodiment of their ethic values.

But this is not just about PayPal, you can get booted from pretty much every payment processor or bank for not following their 'accepted usage policy', i.e., doing only what they deem acceptable and how they allow you to do so. It's really all about control. He who controls your money controls you.


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## RainwaterDrop (Oct 3, 2022)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Whatever else is going on here, banning porn is usually a suicide note. It happened to Tumblr. It happened to Betamax. It can happen to Paypal.
> 
> Let's give it a minute to see who's willing to take all that sweet, degenerate money.



PayPal is a really big company, they're one of the key global ones in terms of transaction volumes and the like. It wouldn't be the end of them, but they would bleed a lot considering it isn't the first horseshit public decision they've taken this year. And frankly, it really fucking sucks when companies start acting like Speech Police. Bigotry isn't the way, but you have no recourse with decisions like that and you can get fucked over forged messages and the like, imagine if some guy gets mistaken with some other guy who did something like, say, go on a drunken bigoted rant. Some other guy gets misidentified as him, they lose thousands of dollars over this and might even lose their entire balance over a PR move, how does one get their money back without suing them? It's so fucking bonkers!


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## I Love Beef (Oct 3, 2022)

I find this all too suspicious after Null successfully fought back against the Farms shut down by Cloudflare. This and Fandom buying out Gamestop and all those other companies for 50 million.


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## LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] (Oct 9, 2022)

when a private company gets big enough they can behave like the state or even worse than the state. This is the distopya lolberts never see coming .


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## PointOfNoReturnPoint (Oct 9, 2022)

Agent Abe Caprine said:


> Paypal accepts crypto.


dont they accept it in a half ass way that you cant actually withdraw it into a wallet just like Robinhood?


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## ♦️ King of Diamonds ♦️ (Oct 11, 2022)

I'm willing to best this is a test run for when the IRS comes out with a new ruling saying they can add $2500 to how much taxes you owe in a given year for each case of  "misinformation"


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## Van Darkholme (Oct 11, 2022)

nigger
oh shit there goes my gas money


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## 1996 Toyota Camry (Oct 12, 2022)

Van Darkholme said:


> oh shit there goes my gas money


You must be driving the smallest car in the world if petrol is _only_ $2500 a tank


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## Airbrushed Van Art (Oct 12, 2022)

So apparently PayPal has backpedalled fucking HARD on this after lots if criticism:

https://www.reuters.com/business/fi...ers-misinformation-bloomberg-news-2022-10-10/

We’ll see…


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## Van Darkholme (Oct 12, 2022)

1996 Toyota Camry said:


> You must be driving the smallest car in the world if petrol is _only_ $2500 a tank


Actual Gas, not petrol.


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## Dean Pentel (Oct 12, 2022)

Airbrushed Van Art said:


> So apparently PayPal has backpedalled fucking HARD on this after lots if criticism:
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/business/fi...ers-misinformation-bloomberg-news-2022-10-10/
> 
> We’ll see…


_Only_ because their stock price dropped enough to make them do it. When dealing with the small hat wearing, kid fucking brigade it's only ever the change in shekels that get them to change direction.


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## Save the Loli (Oct 13, 2022)

♦️ King of Diamonds ♦️ said:


> I'm willing to best this is a test run for when the IRS comes out with a new ruling saying they can add $2500 to how much taxes you owe in a given year for each case of  "misinformation"


The IRS would never do this because that's a 1st Amendment problem. But your bank might, at the direction of the IRS or some other bunch of faggy feds. Don't like it? Make your own banking system!


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## Aqua Panda (Oct 13, 2022)

Hadn't touched my PayPal account in years but closed it nevertheless. 

This is 100% a trial run for the banks to introduce the same sort of penalty system for general banking accounts down the line.

It's fucked, but regulators might really have to deal with how political the banking system is getting. The deplatforming is getting to ludicrous levels and so much of the system now requires having a bank account.


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## PedoSec (Oct 14, 2022)

Under threat of US government investigation PayPal backs down on the "misinformation" AUP change:









						Consumer Financial Protection Bureau considers investigating PayPal over fining people for legal speech
					

PayPal says that it may fine users $2,500 for promoting "intolerance that is discriminatory."




					reclaimthenet.org
				




They can still take all your money and/or fine you $2,500 for AUP violations though so better learn crypto now. As a bonus you can contribute to the farms.


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## Toolbox (Oct 14, 2022)

Trout P said:


> Somebody better check the Venmo EULA since they're owned by PayPal.


What are the actual decent alternatives? Go full no middleman, use credit cards and the risk that comes with that? I guess there's that privacy card site but the way you set it up is wonky.


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## Fireman Sam (Oct 14, 2022)

This is a little late (saw an article talking about the following roughly a week ago). But apparently this was walked back calling it a "misprint" of their updated terms.
They display this message on the FAQ page about deleting a Paypal account, go figure.

Assuming they're not just lying about why they're walking it back, it would be likely that someone in the company threw that detail in there as a last ditch attempt to stick it to those wrongthinkers, likely a person of Gender.

But let's be honest... This policy is most likely coming down the line. They are testing the waters, don't be a retard and don't use Paypal.


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## PedoSec (Oct 14, 2022)

Toolbox said:


> What are the actual decent alternatives? Go full no middleman, use credit cards and the risk that comes with that? I guess there's that privacy card site but the way you set it up is wonky.


I used to be a crypto skeptic. I made some money on speculation but thought it would never be useful for anything else. Well over the last few years more and more of the shit I buy online has started supporting crypto payments. Not even drugs, stuff like web hosting and my usenet indexer subscription. So now instead of using an intermediary like Coinbase to change bitcoin people paid me to USD right away, I leave some of it in there so I can buy stuff with it later. So almost without me even noticing, it's become real money, a parallel system of payment, at least for me.

I don't know how much farther it will go. It would be great if people could pay for necessities like food and housing with crypto. That would go a long way toward obsoleting parasites like PayPal.


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## Bundychu (Oct 14, 2022)

Airbrushed Van Art said:


> So apparently PayPal has backpedalled fucking HARD on this after lots if criticism:
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/business/fi...ers-misinformation-bloomberg-news-2022-10-10/
> 
> We’ll see…


PayPal cited “incorrect information”. You can’t make it up. I’ll be sending my $2,500 invoice for self-admitted misinformation tomorrow.


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## Dergint (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Charging people for violating an EULA? Is that even legal? Has anyone ever had the audacity to TRY something like this?


Does an email service charging you $1 per prohibited outgoing message count? I honestly don't really know the difference between all the different kinds of legalese and terms.


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## Save the Loli (Oct 15, 2022)

PedoSec said:


> I used to be a crypto skeptic. I made some money on speculation but thought it would never be useful for anything else. Well over the last few years more and more of the shit I buy online has started supporting crypto payments. Not even drugs, stuff like web hosting and my usenet indexer subscription. So now instead of using an intermediary like Coinbase to change bitcoin people paid me to USD right away, I leave some of it in there so I can buy stuff with it later. So almost without me even noticing, it's become real money, a parallel system of payment, at least for me.
> 
> I don't know how much farther it will go. It would be great if people could pay for necessities like food and housing with crypto. That would go a long way toward obsoleting parasites like PayPal.


Coinbase will probably become the new Paypal if crypto really took off (and it won't, since if it did, the government would just speed up rollout of their pseudo-crypto CBDCs i.e. Fedcoin). Look what happens to your Coinbase account if you try and donate to Kiwifarms for instance. You also get banned if you try and send crypto to Russia, which interferes with free trade and commerce the same way Paypal or a traditional bank would. The governments also watch everything on the blockchain, so they could still easily fuck over your bank account and keep you (or whoever you're sending it to) using only crypto.

Now sure, you could use a true privacy coin like Monero and keep your money off the big exchanges, but it's still pretty limiting and would probably stop it from being adopted by normies and thus truly building a parallel banking system.


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## anustart76 (Oct 15, 2022)

Well they stepped on their own dicks while backpedaling. They banned the account of a pro-democracy party in Hong Kong (ie anti-CCP).








						PayPal Terminates Hong Kong Account of Pro-Democracy Group
					

The League of Social Democrats, a Hong Kong activist group that depends on donations, said the termination of PayPal’s services came unexpectedly




					www.voanews.com
				











						PayPal Terminates Hong Kong Account of Pro-Democracy Group
					

archived 15 Oct 2022 08:08:51 UTC




					archive.ph
				






Save the Loli said:


> Coinbase will probably become the new Paypal if crypto really took off (and it won't, since if it did, the government would just speed up their pseudo-crypt CBDCs i.e. Fedcoin). Look what happens to your Coinbase account if you try and donate to Kiwifarms for instance. You also get banned if you try and send crypto to Russia, which interferes with free trade and commerce the same way Paypal or a traditional bank would. The governments also watch everything on the blockchain, so they could still easily fuck over your bank account and keep you (or whoever you're sending it to) using only crypto.
> 
> Now sure, you could use a true privacy coin like Monero and keep your money off the big exchanges, but it's still pretty limiting and would probably stop it from being adopted by normies and thus truly building a parallel banking system.


This is my concern over crypto, that the major businesses will just force you to go through something like Coinbase or Paypal to pay in crypto, centralizing everything that way. Even so, that's a reason to support small businesses. I do hope Monero grows, it's the best crypto I've seen for privacy.


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## PedoSec (Oct 15, 2022)

Save the Loli said:


> Coinbase will probably become the new Paypal if crypto really took off (and it won't, since if it did, the government would just speed up their pseudo-crypt CBDCs i.e. Fedcoin). Look what happens to your Coinbase account if you try and donate to Kiwifarms for instance. You also get banned if you try and send crypto to Russia, which interferes with free trade and commerce the same way Paypal or a traditional bank would. The governments also watch everything on the blockchain, so they could still easily fuck over your bank account and keep you (or whoever you're sending it to) using only crypto.
> 
> Now sure, you could use a true privacy coin like Monero and keep your money off the big exchanges, but it's still pretty limiting and would probably stop it from being adopted by normies and thus truly building a parallel banking system.


Good post. I'm interested to see what happens with FedNow. To be totally clear, I'm not interested in illegal stuff. I'm not sure whether it's a good thing that the US federal government monitors all financial transactions. In other words I could see myself becoming a libertarian if we could somehow "try out" out financial transactions being private for a year and nothing bad happened. More pedophiles running around maybe. I wonder if anyone really knows.

I *am* interested in the farms getting shut down for no reason. When it happened, Matthew Prince went on Hacker News and said "think of it in terms of rule of law" or lack thereof. In other words he was implying that illegal stuff should be reported to the government and investigated by them, not him, but something forced his hand in this case. I've seen speculation that it was Mastercard threatening to terminate their contract with Cloudflare. But as you point out, it's not about replacing Mastercard, which is relatively easy, it's about what replaces Mastercard. Is it Coinbase? Because as you point out, Coinbase shuts down people's accounts if they send crypto to the farms' address. BTW, I've sent crypto to the farms using Coinbase just by asking null for a one-time-use address. But I realize that's not a real solution to the problem.

Right now I'm thinking about how I pay people and get paid using crypto. Most of the bills I pay go through one of two providers. One is called CoinPayments. So there would have to be a way to quickly replace CoinPayments as your payment provider if someone mobs or blackmails them into dropping you. I think it would be good for sites like OnlyFans to have a list of payment providers the performer could pick from. Also, that way the mob-resistant providers would have a competitive advantage, since more and more people would start using them after the weaker ones punked out.

I guess it's relatively expensive to set up a payment provider, since you (perhaps rightly) have to deal with regulatory compliance. But maybe the process could be automated to some extent. A LegalZoom type thing.


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## Wesley Willis (Oct 18, 2022)

Close your accounts.

PayPal Partners with ADL to Fight Extremism and Protect Marginalized Communities​


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## Tisiphone (Nov 25, 2022)

A hive of scum and villainy.


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## Lunar Eclipse Paradox (Jan 2, 2023)

It's a good thing I never opened a PayPal account, there are some listing that want me to open one and my response is not buying the item.


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