# How the rest of the rest of the world could help fix the Middle East?



## Takayuki Yagami (Jan 15, 2017)

What could the West, Russia, who-the-fuck-ever do to actually make the Middle East less of a shithole? I doubt balkanizing the place would fix anything, the only secular state there had to have the military purge the government twice a generation(and the Erdogen coup indicates they can't donit anymore), and the only thing that seems to bind any of the people there is that most of them hate the Jews. It's a crap intro, but I'm curious what you all would say that doesn't involve a reconquista or nukes.


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## Cheap Sandals (Jan 16, 2017)

There isn't much the West can do via material means to help the working class of the Middle East. From what I understand, this is for a number of reasons. I am ready and happy to be corrected if I am misunderstanding. These opinions are based on my own background, my own religious upbringing, and my current observations.

First,  because any material aid such as food or building supplies going in are distributed by the local government  which feeds itself and its army before the population get a taste, and thus the status quo is preserved.

Second, cultural input is also distributed by local governments. The Middle East is insular, xenophobic and paranoid. They absolutely reject overt cultural interactions between itself and what it perceives as the Great Corrupter of Morals, or what we refer to as 'the West'. Covert cultural interaction happens, of course, but the language barrier and lack of common literacy restricts this to the intelligentsia/bourgeoisie of their respective countries (basically the rich bitches who  live in cities, can afford internet and have free time to read).

Although atheist and progressive texts translated (badly) into Egyptian Arabic (the lingua franca of the Middle East) are the hottest torrents around right now (each new text drops like a bombshell), the inability of these modern concepts to penetrate the stone-wall illiteracy of the Middle Eastern blue collar means tribalism rules the roost. And the ruling ethos of this 'tribe' is Salafist Islam and its lesser strains. It does not jibe well with post-Enlightenment  thought which even the hardcore conservative Westerners believe.  They are alien to each other.

So both material and cultural input are going to be altered (perverted) by the local governments where the governments exist.  It's going to be difficult to establish an authentic and helpful relationship with the local populace when they think you're an invading Satan who preaches Free Love and Materialism to Destroy their Eternal Souls.

But what if the government doesn't exist? Because the government doesn't exist once you leave town. Then you get to deal with local warlord. Warlords are much worse than anything you think. They're the toughest sonofabitch who rose to the top of a pile of sonofabitches, and this guy is in control because no one else can take it from him. They do things like sell slaves, force children to become soldiers (and THEN sell them as slaves) and also keep women as slaves. They like slaves, because God said they can have slaves. They also consume a lot of drugs, because if you get your soldiers high on meth they don't feel fear or pain and they'll kill a lot. So just be aware that the kickback money you pay your local warlord to leave you alone is going towards methamphetamines.

Say you want to do a public works project like a hydro-electric dam to provide power to your wartorn city. Let's say you pay off the local militias and you also have support of the local government. Well, the countryside warlords would definitely oppose you and kill your workers/scientists because that threatens their control. Good luck developing the country outside cities, you stupid idiot. The Russians did it at the expense of a lot of soldiers and money, and the past few decades have been spent blowing up all their efforts. Marvelous.

All of these are just general problems that can be generalized to a lot of disparate regions. The specific problems of specific regions (Iran vs Afghanistan vs Pakistan vs Egypt) are too numerous to list. I'm just trying to make the average webzone browser be kinda aware of the enormous obstacles facing efforts to engage with the Middle East.

edit: TL;DR: The best thing the West could possibly do for the Middle East is to stop needing oil.


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## millais (Jan 16, 2017)

Trump and Putin could turn it into radioactive glass overnight. Everyone goes home happy except the petroleum companies, because fuck them.


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## Somsnosa (Jan 16, 2017)

We won't help the middle-east, otherwise it'd hurt our modern lifestyle. All we can do is stop terrorism attacks in the west and let them kill eachother over there


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## Malodorous Merkin (Jan 16, 2017)

Nuke Abdul, he's uncool.


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## Ntwadumela (Jan 16, 2017)

-Put in competent rulers for the majority of nations
-Increase education of foreign cultures as well as human rights
-Destroy the extremist groups.
 I know but this is what should be done IMO


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## i_love_kiwifarms (Jan 16, 2017)

it's hard to say
i'm a muslim by blood and while i don't think islam is particularly bad or good, i still think the reason that christianity (the west) was able to reform and not islam was because of the specific anti-reformation laws in islam and the fact that education/wealth is much more accessible and distributed in the west

someone needs to come along, something needs to happen to make muslims seek widespread reformation despite the quran telling them not to do so

most american muslims who have lived here for decades have already begun doing this subconsciously thru being mixed into the american melting pot, but the ones back in islamic countries don't have any reformed melting pot society to kinda...sink into

it's much more complicated than many ppl make it out to be. there's no good or bad religion or region or anything. human behavior is all predictable when given different resources and rules to live by


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## Vitriol (Jan 16, 2017)

Ignore the meiddle east, quarantine it and eventually a despot or collections of despots will bring order to the region. Then with say 150years of stability they might be ready for civilisation.


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## Antipathy (Jan 16, 2017)

Just let them kill each other until an agreement is reached. Or try and educate and de-radicalize them, but that's expensive.


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## Julius Evola (Jan 16, 2017)

Turn the whole region into glass


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## AA 102 (Jan 16, 2017)

The fact that countries feel the need to "fix" other countries is the problem. Just leave them alone. Let them kill each other. Hell, maybe they'll figure shit out on their own after a few hundred years.


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## Some JERK (Jan 16, 2017)

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.


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## Bassomatic (Jan 16, 2017)

dannyfrickenp said:


> The fact that countries feel the need to "fix" other countries is the problem. Just leave them alone. Let them kill each other. Hell, maybe they'll figure shit out on their own after a few hundred years.


Pretty much pre 1900, we've done that. It causes a lot less deaths in the west but around same barbaric behavior in the ME, for around 5000 years.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Jan 16, 2017)

Step 1: Kill Islam


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## Arse Biscuit (Jan 17, 2017)

Stop selling them food.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Jan 17, 2017)

Help Russia support the Syrian Army in fighting ISIS. Stop helping Israel and taking Saudi bribes then hypocritically complaining about other Islamic theocracies like Iran which happen to not totally suck US cock or at least didn't. Stop undermining and/or destroying the independence of many countries such as Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. Just generally stop the imperialism or else anything that happens to Americans and especially their military is justified.


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## Cuck Norris (Jan 17, 2017)




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## WireSponge (Jan 17, 2017)

Short term solutions are pretty much nil. There are some ways to theoretically fix it in the long run, but any reasonable solution would be a slow, painful process that would likely take hundreds of years to complete. That being said, this is more than enough of a problem that a long term solution is worth the time.

The best way to help the middle-east as I see it is to take a more discreet method that doesn't require helping the existing, backwards governments within the middle-east. My personal theory is that Europe should look to the more moderate parts (stay with me here) of the Muslim world outside of the Middle East and support them to lead by example for the rest. While no parts of the Muslim world would be considered progressive by western standards, there are countries in the Muslim world that seem open to westernization and more progressive change. Morocco is one of the only self-sufficient nations in West Africa, fond of the West, (many Moroccans like to call themselves "Southern Europeans" and Morocco has been historical friends with America) and their government has been steadily democratizing and westernizing, showing at least some openness to change. To skip to the top option, Indonesia is probably the best choice for a nation to help lead the Muslim world by example.

*Attention: The parentheses are where I'm giving examples and occasionally explaining the complex issues in Indonesia that I touch upon, so if you don't care about that stuff ignore those parts. There is a lot of extra information and if you aren't interested it's probably tl;dr.
*
 Indonesia:

- Is objectively already one of the most advanced Muslim countries both technologically and economically (from a technological standpoint they're practically modern. The only thing holding them back from being caught up there is that the country has industrialized/modernized so recently that that some rural parts of the country haven't gone through the process yet, which is why the country that at one time had the most Facebook users in the world also has people who still wipe their ass with their hand.)

-Has industrialized rapidly and effectively (see above point)

- Was founded with racial/religious diversity and acceptance as a central theme (the nation is the unifying of numerous local ethnicities, the calendar has holidays from several religions, the national motto is "Unity in diversity.")

-Are projected to likely be one of Asia's leading powers in the future. (This link goes over the basics of why)

-Are the most Muslim country in the world.

-Are already a Democracy (with presidents and everything)

-Have a highly anti-terrorist government and one of the most brutally effective anti-terrorist units in the world. (This deserves a long explanation because the answer is really interesting. Basically, the reason why everyone hates terrorism is because Indonesian anarchists and seperatists will join terrorist groups to commit anti-government crimes. Indonesian terrorism is a very domestic problem similar to American gang violence, and many Muslim Indonesians have had family or friends killed by terrorists. This has massively backfired on terrorists, as Indonesia is a Democracy and the people have now voted in staunchly anti-terrorist politicians into power. They treat terrorists and terrorist-sympathizers how Duterte treats drug addicts.
Wiki link on the subject again for the basics on terrorism in Indonesia)

-Are extremely progressive for a Muslim country, to the point where LGBT rights are currently the most hot-button issue in Indonesia. (I'm not going to paint it like Indonesia is a safe haven for gay people. Gay rights are an intensely controversial issue in the country and violence against LBGT people by conservative extremists is common. Many government officials, including the president's spokesman, have expressed anti-LGBT views and attempted to push anti-LGBT laws, and the vast majority of the population still does not find being gay acceptable.
However, organizations and movements to one day have full rights for LGBT people in Indonesia have already taken root, and the president has come out in support for the rights of LGBT citizens, stating he wants himself and other famous Indonesians to come out in support of LGBT rights and set an example for the rest of the country. It should be noted that being reelected in Indonesia is very difficult, and the president has most likely killed his chances of being in a government office ever again by taking such a controversial stance. While LGBT rights are far from good in the country, the fact that improvement of LGBT rights is being discussed at all, much less to the point where the president is risking his political career for it, is a huge step forward from the rest of the Islamic world and speaks volumes about how open Indonesia is towards change.)


If we focused our efforts on improving rights on countries that have actually shown a willingness to change, countries like Morocco and Indonesia, they could influence the Islamic world far better than Westerners are doing right now by focusing on improving countries at the heart of the problem where things are already too far gone to change without just taking everything over.


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## Aquinas (Jan 17, 2017)

With a crusade


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## El Garbage (Jan 17, 2017)

Support only secular leaders and slander the worst islamists with a vicious fake news campaign, treat the whole thing like a US presidential election. Also airdrop millions of tablet computers with internet connections, porn collections and Kiwi Farms accounts to the poor, that'll turn them into apathetic, useless individuals.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Jan 18, 2017)

Bassomatic said:


> Pretty much pre 1900, we've done that. It causes a lot less deaths in the west but around same barbaric behavior in the ME, for around 5000 years.



Yeah, but there's nothing wrong with us doing that. Although perhaps you were merely pointing out that it does nothing to resolve the question of the thread?


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## TiggerNits (Jan 19, 2017)

Same way you fix the West, buddy.




Kill all the poors.


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## neverendingmidi (Jan 19, 2017)

P.J. O'Rouke went over to Somalia and asked one of the UN guys how he'd fix the place. His answer? "Give them better arms and ammunition and build a wall around it."

As shown in the Palestinian situation, there will never be peace until everyone who disagrees with them is dead. And unfortunately Islam is the religion of "You and Me, and I'm Not So Sure About You." Even if the whole world was Islamic, there'd still be Sunni/Shia/Wahabbist divide, and after that the tribal divide.


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## Arse Biscuit (Jan 19, 2017)

neverendingmidi said:


> P.J. O'Rouke went over to Somalia and asked one of the UN guys how he'd fix the place. His answer? "Give them better arms and ammunition and build a wall around it."



Also webcams everywhere.  PPV can pay for the expenses.


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## ADN_VIII (Jan 19, 2017)

I don't think anything can fix the middle east for as long as Islam holds a dominant position in society. 

What caused Europe to go from Dark Ages to the modern version? Secular society, education, and the separation of church and state. What caused those? Gradual erosion of the church's power base. That happened because people realized they didn't need religion to contribute to society and the parallel realization that a book from iron age Palestine didn't hold as much value as it was purported to. 

When we look at the middle east, we see a culture dominated by a religion that holds itself as being the total solution to all human ills and totally infallible. Middle East now is almost the same as it was centuries ago because the single thing that unifies them is explicitly static. If we wound the clock forward, I'd be willing to bet money nothing would change.


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## WW 635 (Feb 10, 2017)

I have a really great idea that hasn't been tried before:

Leave them alone.


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## Mick92 (Feb 10, 2017)

Extort them and their mother to take Islam down.


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## ADN_VIII (Feb 11, 2017)

CricketVonChirp said:


> I have a really great idea that hasn't been tried before:
> 
> Leave them alone.



That would be best, but only as long as they keep busy with each other and not look outwards. Islam, and the rest of the Abrahamic religions, are inherently expansionist. They need to spread, and the justifications for it are in their scriptures. If one branch of Islam came out as dominant, I'd bet my last dollar that the adherents would try to spread it to others.


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## AnOminous (Feb 11, 2017)

Thermonuclear weapons could solve every problem there.


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## Closet Sorcerer (Feb 11, 2017)

There's no need to help them because they're almost certainly doomed to fall.

Radical islamism is a relatively recent concept (60-70 years IIRC), but IMO it "tainted" the Middle East by painting it in a retrograde light and is slowly gaining ground, not with their ideology, but because they claim that the West is responsible for all their troubles. Considering a lot of the current conflicts their can be traced to the Cold War...

Currently,
- A lot of countries that have at best a decent level of life, at worst are shitholes due to harsh conditions and conflict.
- A few "topdogs" that got here due to a lot of help from a superpower due to strategic importance (Israel) or petrodollars (Emirates, Saudi Arabia).
I don't include Turkey in the mix because they're the "wild card" and play on all sides of the game, what with being NATO and at the same time supposedly dealing with ISIS to get their stolen oil.

Once oil runs dry, all bets are off. The US has the whole region as buddies save for Syria, but as soon as oil is taken out, they will take their ball home and act as if they never knew anyone around these parts save for Israel due to their military power and their nuclear capacity. You don't leave a guy with nukes alone.
This will rile up more extremists who will target then the closest money supply : the oil nations. Sure, they will fight back, but without US support and prefering death over asking the local powerhouse (Israel) for help, they will at best turn into ruthless theocracies, at worst fall down unless Russia or China decides to help them in exchange for some sweet money. My money's more on Russia, China still doesn't dare do more than saber rattling out of fear of getting NATO involved.

Qatar got clever by starting to put their money in something else than oil in order to not be SOL when the wells will run dry, but they are seen as sellouts to the greedy Occidentals.

An Arab Enlightenment to shove away their current Dark Ages and become a powerful civilization (because yes, they were quite ahead in terms of culture and science in the Middle Ages) is possible, but in the current state of things, only by wiping the slate clean.


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## Piss Clam (Feb 11, 2017)

It took 35 years of the UN, US, various western countries collectively babysitting South Korea until it became what I consider a functional democracy.

Nobody has the patience to do that anymore.

I would dump more money into fusion research and materials science. 

Keep the dealings with the Middle East to a minimum.


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## ICametoLurk (Feb 12, 2017)

Give the land to Israel.


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## Mason Verger (Feb 13, 2017)

End all dependence on oil. They can keep the strangle hold market on figs and humus. 
Also, dirty bomb the holy land. Not to kill anyone, just so nobody can have it for a few hundred years.


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## Piss Clam (Feb 15, 2017)

Just a further note on the wisdom of trying to democratize a nation.

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/184219.html

Looking at Jong-chul’s photo hanging on the wall, I asked the father if he still harbored some hatred. "I have wished over and over that the incident had not occurred, but if not for my son, I would have lived without knowing about democracy, like a fool. Because of the incident, I was able to feel a kind of happiness, for I was able to realize the true meaning of democracy.* But I have heard that young people in South Korea these days are not much interested in such things*," he replied.

Sounds familiar...and the wheel turns.


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## Piss Clam (Feb 15, 2017)

Mason Verger said:


> End all dependence on oil.



The US has enough oil, coal, natural gas, and alternative energy sources to last us over 300 years.

US #1 in proven coal reserves.
US #5 in proven natural gas reserves. (we burn off a shit ton of natural gas every day because it wouldn't turn a profit)
US #14 in proven oil reserves. (without fracking).

At some point even the thickest person has to question why we are meddling over there.

We all know the answer and yet here we are.


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## Savryc (Feb 15, 2017)

Give Isreal a fuck ton of VX and close your eyes for a few years. Jew rats > sand niggers.


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## Piss Clam (Feb 15, 2017)

Savryc said:


> Give Isreal a fuck ton of VX and close your eyes for a few years. Jew rats > sand niggers.



Can we work out a deal where we save the Lebanese women?

The prevailing winds are also in Israels favor >>>


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## Savryc (Feb 15, 2017)

Piss Clam said:


> Can we work out a deal where we save the Lebanese women?
> 
> The prevailing winds are also in Israels favor >>>



We'd plunder the region for everything of worth beforehand, that goes without saying.


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## Florence (Feb 15, 2017)




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## Bob's Fries (Feb 21, 2017)

Piss Clam said:


> It took 35 years of the UN, US, various western countries collectively babysitting South Korea until it became what I consider a functional democracy.
> 
> Nobody has the patience to do that anymore.
> 
> ...



I'm pretty glad South Korea was the country that got to have that experience. Or otherwise I'll probably be in a camp by now. 35 years is a freakishly long time. No one will have the resources anymore for it.


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## Trilby (Feb 24, 2017)

Bob's Fries said:


> I'm pretty glad South Korea was the country that got to have that experience. Or otherwise I'll probably be in a camp by now. 35 years is a freakishly long time. No one will have the resources anymore for it.


That's why we no longer have a draft system in this country, every 18 year old would not want to dread going through this mess...


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## feedtheoctopus (Feb 25, 2017)

Only people who can help the middle east are people in the middle east. I think the past 100 years or so of history proves that much


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## Mariposa Electrique (Feb 25, 2017)

There are some okay parts of the Middle East, but most of the Middle East has serious problems due to 1,400 years of inbreeding. The best thing we can do in the West is to stop accommodating radical and violent mainstream Islam here in our home countries. It's better to set an example at home by the treatment of all of the women in our country. We can't let Muslims in the West continue to segregate their women from mainstream society while most of these men get to do whatever they want, which includes having flings with and raping kafirs.

Westerners think that it's their religion that is violent, while that is true, it's even more factual that violent people create violent religions and societies (Christians did it for a long time as well).
Also, help Muslims to understand that  their inbreeding is a contributing factor to their own troubles.





We are rewarding and encouraging them to bring more suffering human beings into the world by respecting their radical ideals because "compassion & sympathy".
The Middle East is the only part of the world that is proud of using reverse eugenics...WTF?

Western liberals are having this relationship with Muslims that a woman would have with a wife beater, in that an abused woman actually thinks she can change the a-hole who punches her, kicks her, mocks her,  and forcefully rapes her at night.
What do abuse experts tell women who are being abused? Pretend you're going out for a pack of smokes, call the cops to get him out, stay secluded until it blows over, and then deal with your urge to fix perennially broken people. It's that simple.

What do we need to do personally, as Westerners? We need to stop glorifying exorbitant acts of "charity". Like, how in the world can global leaders justify the murder, rapes, and forced Islamification of their own people. This is not real charity, this is the warped sublimation of entire countries due to residual guilt from WWII and slavery, and the horrifying thing is, it's actually putting them lower on the totem pole than people like Hitler. This is only helping the Middle East reach it's goal of distributing Islam like it distributes semen.
The truth is, if there is a God, I doubt he rewards complete shit shows like Angela Merkel for encouraging the murder and rape of German people and children.


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