# Libertarians will gain ideological wins from the Corona Virus shutdown.



## Turnip_Head (Apr 29, 2020)

By the end of this lolbergs will probably get a big win in the argument department.

A lot of progressive/socialist people turn to FDR’s “new deal” as a good thing. Libertarians will look at it as a bad thing and say the recession was caused and prolonged by government.
Same argument dichotomy kind of repeats itself for the 2008 recession.

Now, we do get a recession entirely government caused. Not tied to banks as a capitalist scapegoat.
Fully documented too, in excruciating digital detail.
We’ll also get to see the results of what other countries who didn’t take action will have happen to them.
Will Statists on the left be forced to support Trump’s stimulus spending in-order to keep the reputations of stimulus by other presidents intact? Or will they call Trump’s stimulus, “not-real-Stimulism”?

Am I wrong in this analysis? Discuss.


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (Apr 29, 2020)

Libertarians will make gains when we stop putting up silly joke candidates and actually try to buck the two-party dichotomy in a manner that appeals to the average American, rather than just in a pure ideological format.

Also pretty  for expecting that socialistfags wont blame capitalism for COVID crisis.
Remember half of them still blame Venezuela's failure on teh ebul free market.


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## Turnip_Head (Apr 29, 2020)

Fanatical Pragmatist said:


> Libertarians will make gains when we stop putting up silly joke candidates and actually try to buck the two-party dichotomy in a manner that appeals to the average American, rather than just in a pure ideological format.
> 
> Also pretty  for expecting that socialistfags wont blame capitalism for COVID crisis.
> Remember half of them still blame Venezuela's failure on teh ebul free market.


Well put yourself in their shoes.
How _would_ you go about blaming this on private companies?

It’s seems pretty hard. The closest I could come up with is that the “capitalist Chinese wetmarket” is the cause. But if one argued that they’ll just look stupid because China is authoritarian government incarnate. It just shows that regulations never work.

The reason why most people tie capitalism to the depression and 2008 is because the banks are an easy scapegoat. To find any government causes of those recessions would take a lot of financial backtracing and then a ton of financial explanations to prove an argument on the cause of it.

For this recession, backtracking the cause of this recession won’t require math. Just an understanding that governments like USA and UK decided to go full shut it down and the results were as follows.

This is the game changer.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (Apr 29, 2020)

The corporate welfare queen lolbergs at the top will get their gains, no doubt. Massive bail-outs are probably in the works already.
Most governments are also ruled by corporations and lobbyists, make of that what you will.

Small fry lolbergs like Cletus "taxation is theft" Cousinfucker will just get shit on harder than ever.


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (Apr 29, 2020)

Turnip_Head said:


> Well put yourself in their shoes.
> How _would_ you go about blaming this on private companies?
> 
> It’s seems pretty hard. The closest I could come up with is that the “capitalist Chinese wetmarket” is the cause. But if one argued that they’ll just look stupid because China is authoritarian government incarnate. It just shows that regulations never work.
> ...


They are already blaming "muh capitalist healthcare system" and "muh social inequality" for the death tolls.

Shit, half of the anti-opening back up crowd thinks we can just live off unemployment & UBI forever and ever.

You thoroughly underestimate the ability of socialists to blame any and every problem on capitalism.


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## mr.moon1488 (Apr 29, 2020)

Whether lolbergs get political points for this or not, global capitalists and global socialists should get the rope for this.


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## Smug Chuckler (Apr 29, 2020)

Even though Libertarians are right here, I'm not holding my breath for the formation of Ancapistan soon.


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## Cum Guzzler (Apr 29, 2020)

Turnip_Head said:


> Well put yourself in their shoes.
> How _would_ you go about blaming this on private companies?


Private companies are politically influential, and liberal governments tend to act in their best interests by prioritising profit and growth. This comes at a cost of human life during a pandemic. 



> It’s seems pretty hard. The closest I could come up with is that the “capitalist Chinese wetmarket” is the cause. But if one argued that they’ll just look stupid because China is authoritarian government incarnate. It just shows that regulations never work.


The criticism of Chinese wet markets and wildlife consumption is centred around the previous lack of regulation. The problem is precisely that these practices are unregulated.


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## Aurora (Apr 29, 2020)

This seems betterr suited to the political board.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Apr 29, 2020)

Libertarians really don't pick their battles well and are pretty easy to manipulate tbh. People will want another FDR if this gets worse, not the opposite.


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## The Pink Panther (Apr 29, 2020)

Libertarians aren't going to win.

In fact, they're losing right now because it seems like most governments want to shift authoritarian-left.


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## soft kitty (Apr 29, 2020)

Libertarians will never win because government will always get bigger; the opposite of what we want.

I'm no ancap but I'd rather have no government than a tyrannical one.


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## The best and greatest (Apr 29, 2020)

If Vaush were Rightwing he'd be a Lolbertarian. I think he even called himself one once or twice. Libertarianism is a fake political association that has long since been subsumed by the wider conservative movement. But even though as a political school of thought Libertarianism is on a continual downslide into irrelevance the label still sounds nice to normie america which is why people like Vaush will selectively apply it to themselves; its an easy sell.


dinoman said:


> I'm no ancap but I'd rather have no government than a tyrannical one.


LOL the former will very quickly devolve into the latter. That's no choice at all.


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## MaleTears (Apr 29, 2020)

Last I checked libertarians have been winning for the past 2 decades.  The American government hasn't arrested anyone for having wrong opinions in a while, so free speech must be stronger than ever now.


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## soft kitty (Apr 29, 2020)

MaleTears said:


> Last I checked libertarians have been winning for the past 2 decades.  The American government hasn't arrested anyone for having wrong opinions in a while, so free speech must be stronger than ever now.


Not good enough. Let me know when we repeal 99% of the laws.


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## RichardMongler (Apr 29, 2020)

The Libertarian movement couldn't gain power in the Carter, Clinton and Obama years. What makes anyone think they'll be able to gain clout now?


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## The Pink Panther (Apr 29, 2020)

MaleTears said:


> Last I checked libertarians have been winning for the past 2 decades.  The American government hasn't arrested anyone for having wrong opinions in a while, so free speech must be stronger than ever now.


That's not libertarianism.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Apr 29, 2020)

I identify with left-libertarianism and yeah, technically, that's the ideology to which many contemporary leftist activists, as well as most of Antifa and some SJWs, pay lip service.


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## The Pink Panther (Apr 29, 2020)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> I identify with left-libertarianism and yeah, technically, that's the ideology to which many contemporary leftist activists, as well as most of Antifa and some SJWs, pay lip service.


So you're a fucking faggot, is that what you're telling us?


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## soft kitty (Apr 29, 2020)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> I identify with left-libertarianism and yeah, technically, that's the ideology to which many contemporary leftist activists, as well as most of Antifa and some SJWs, pay lip service.


What? That doesn't make any sense. SJWs and Antifa are nowhere near libertarian. SJWs are enforced equality and Antifa are just straight up fascists, you literally can't get any farther away from libertarianism than that.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Apr 29, 2020)

dinoman said:


> SJWs and Antifa are nowhere near libertarian.


I know, but technically, they claim to be it.


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## Syaoran Li (Apr 29, 2020)

I've often mentioned that the demise of the Religious Right played a major role in the rise of the SJW Left, but I also think it helped kill the Libertarian movement in America and led to a party of lolbertarians, ancaps, and other assorted lolcows.

Since the early 80's, the Republican Party was almost exclusively the purview of neocons, fundies/traditionalists, Zionists, and corporatists (the last of which are also in the Democrat ranks) and the Libertarian Party was the biggest of the third party groups since it was the default option of classical liberals and anyone else who was socially liberal or moderate but otherwise fiscally conservative. In the late 2000's, things began to change.

Enter Ron Paul.

Ron Paul was a meme candidate and was one of the OG meme candidates alongside Dennis Kucinich and Ross Perot, but he did get a major following online in the late 2000's and the early 2010's. This was all just before the "Current Year" round of the culture war began.

Ron Paul lost badly twice, but he had enough of a following and he didn't cuck out to the establishment Republicans quite to the degree Bernie did to the DNC.

Ron Paul's following also had an unusual amount of younger people who had spent most of their childhoods viewing the Republicans as the party of church ladies, neocons wanting endless wars, and ornery rednecks.

This scared the shit out of the Left since the neocons and fundies were an easy boogeyman that every sane person hated for the most part, and I'd wager that the Left's fear over losing their old enemy played a role in how the SJW culture wars eventually took shape.

It took a while for the GOP to catch on, but I'd say it really began with the rise of Trump in 2015-2016. He was a populist who took a page or two out of the Ron Paul playbook, and he got a following.

Meanwhile, the neocons and fundies like Jeb and Cruz all crashed and burned so the GOP decided to run Trump as a Hail Mary play since they figured Hillary Clinton was going to win anyway.

Against all odds, Trump won in 2016.

After Trump won and the polarization between right and left began to escalate rapidly, a lot of people who would have been libertarians in the 90's and 2000's went to the Republicans instead.

Really, this just left the lolbergs and ancaps in the Libertarian Party.

Hell, I'm a 90's/early 2000's liberal in my views and I'm voting for Trump.

As for whether or not the wider concept of libertarian politics can catch on in the long run? I'm honestly not sure.

If anything, this could very well further strengthen the economic left in the same way that the Great Recession did.

I do think that this pandemic may also slowly decouple the IdPol woke leftism from economic leftism in the long run since the SJW's, obnoxious champagne socialists, and pretentious punk commies like Destiny and Vaush are extremely toxic for the Democrats and fiscal liberals the same way that the fundies were for the Republican Party and fiscal conservatives.

However, at the same time, if we don't go too much further into authoritarian leftism because of this pandemic, then it could be a case of "what doesn't kill us will make us stronger" for the libertarians and classical liberals.

Either way, we're due for yet another party realignment, and in many ways, it was already starting to happen even before the pandemic.


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## soft kitty (Apr 29, 2020)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> I know, but technically, they claim to be it.


I have never heard of SJWs or Antifa claiming to be libertarian. The people that do that clearly don't understand their own ideology enough to even know where on the political spectrum they are.


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## Dwight Frye (Apr 29, 2020)

dinoman said:


> I have never heard of SJWs or Antifa claiming to be libertarian.



Exactly. Every single one I've spoken with has this exaggerated view of libertarians as Ayn Rand worshipping cultists who are basically neocons (???) but don't want to admit it. 

In other words, basically how Reddit, and quite a few people unfortunately here view them.


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## The Crow (Apr 29, 2020)

Yeah, the folks pulling the strings here will never allow a Libertarian to become president.


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## Wallace (Apr 30, 2020)

The SJW left isn't libertarian at all. I'd say they're strongly anti-libertarian, in that they have a disregard for economic freedom. They are against property rights and the freedom to trade, contract, and invest, and in favor of a controlled system where the state owns everything. (It's communist in the sense that they've deluded themselves into thinking that they are the proletariat, and naturally they would be the state in their dream scenario.)


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## Terrorist (Apr 30, 2020)

Lolbergs may have some decent negative criticisms of the shutdown, but they don't have positive solutions to the virus or the Chyna problem. Punishing Chyna (by sanctioning them, restricting outsourcing, etc.) and doing preventative action against pandemics requires state action.

Deregulating the market would mean more outsourcing to communist China, not less. Under libertarianism, the American government has no right to tell corporations who they can or can't deal with, and big biz is very cool with the Chicoms. There isn't some law of the free market where you can only do business with people who also believe in the free market or else you disintegrate. Boycotts don't work for that either because consumers can often only choose from shit that's Made in China (or some other godless shithole).



Wallace said:


> The SJW left isn't libertarian at all. I'd say they're strongly anti-libertarian, in that they have a disregard for economic freedom. They are against property rights and the freedom to trade, contract, and invest, and in favor of a controlled system where the state owns everything. (It's communist in the sense that they've deluded themselves into thinking that they are the proletariat, and naturally they would be the state in their dream scenario.)



The SJW left is very socially libertarian. They believe the freedom to be trans and smoke weed everyday is of utmost importance, hate collectivism along identitarian lines by whites/males/both, and see nothing wrong with hedonism or the cult of self. Much like libertarians do. Where they differ is whether or not govt should get involved.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (Apr 30, 2020)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> I know, but technically, they claim to be it.





dinoman said:


> I have never heard of SJWs or Antifa claiming to be libertarian. The people that do that clearly don't understand their own ideology enough to even know where on the political spectrum they are.


AnComs, which many of these confused lefty authoritarians claim to be, are _technically_ libertarians. Their flavour of "state-enforced *social* libertarianism", however, is obviously not very libertarian.


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## Slap47 (Apr 30, 2020)

This pandemic will be a disaster for libertarianism. It isn't true but the media is straight up praising China for its authoritarian disease policy. People will believe that. This is not helped by retarded people in the US "protesting the disease". Some of their concerns are valid but these protests are really really retarded.


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## polyester (Apr 30, 2020)

dinoman said:


> What? That doesn't make any sense. SJWs and Antifa are nowhere near libertarian. SJWs are enforced equality and Antifa are just straight up fascists, you literally can't get any farther away from libertarianism than that.



Left-libertarianism does exist as a movement, but it's mostly a bunch of think tanks (Niskanen Center etc.) and academic blogs.
From what I can tell, they're leftist SJWs who believe that free markets would be good for society, but in all other regards follow the standard leftist SJW script.

(And yes, they absolutely hate 'normal' libertarians.)


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## Wallace (Apr 30, 2020)

Terrorist said:


> The SJW left is very socially libertarian. They believe the freedom to be trans and smoke weed everyday is of utmost importance, hate collectivism along identitarian lines by whites/males/both, and see nothing wrong with hedonism or the cult of self. Much like libertarians do. Where they differ is whether or not govt should get involved.



What you're describing in terms of freedom to be trans and smoke weed is more of a classically liberal society, not libertarian. The SJW left wants their view points enforced by the state, and their lifestyles subsidized by the state, which is not at all libertarian.


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## Marco Fucko (Apr 30, 2020)

OP are your parents siblings?


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## Terrorist (Apr 30, 2020)

Wallace said:


> What you're describing in terms of freedom to be trans and smoke weed is more of a classically liberal society, not libertarian. The SJW left wants their view points enforced by the state, and their lifestyles subsidized by the state, which is not at all libertarian.



That was my point. They both support the right to degeneracy, it’s just that the SJW left wants it state-sponsored. I agree 100%.


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## Emperor Julian (Apr 30, 2020)

libertarianism is a weak ideology drawing  in weak people so maybe since this whole thing has proved how much of a bunch of fuck ups Americans and britsbongs are.


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## hello FBI (May 7, 2020)

Covid makes me wet


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## The Pink Panther (May 7, 2020)

Emperor Julian said:


> libertarianism is a weak ideology drawing  in weak people so maybe since this whole thing has proved how much of a bunch of fuck ups Americans and britsbongs are.


but why are they weak


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## Emperor Julian (May 7, 2020)

The Pink Panther said:


> but why are they weak




I've yet to to see one I wouldnt describe as such.


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## The Pink Panther (May 7, 2020)

Emperor Julian said:


> I've yet to to see one I wouldnt describe as such.


I would call myself a libertarian.


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## Emperor Julian (May 7, 2020)

The Pink Panther said:


> I would call myself a libertarian.



I've yet to meet you, which unless you dox yourself I'm not really going to.

Although doxxing yourself would endorse my perspective I suppose.


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## Watermelanin (May 7, 2020)

Well given that the governments that had the quickest/strongest government response are recovering the fastest and those who tried to hold out for as long as possible without government intervention have seen the worst effects of it, lolbergs BTFO as far as I'm concerned. But if we (the US) open shit up now, the virus will go back to its wild spread and all the lockdowns and stimulus packages will be rendered absolutely pointless. This could make for a new talking point for libertarians as it could be portrayed to show the ineffectivity of government intervention. But it's very easy to debunk. 

If anything: this will only result in greater polarization as lolbergs bunker up in their hugboxes decrying the pointlessness of the government response and the left sits in their hugboxes decrying the reopening of the country.


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## Slap47 (May 13, 2020)

Libertarians are going to come out of this looking like privileged unsymathetic assholes.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (May 13, 2020)

Slap47 said:


> View attachment 1290229
> 
> Libertarians are going to come out of this looking like privileged unsymathetic assholes.


Wouldn't being forced to provide free housing violate the NAP?


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## Slap47 (May 13, 2020)

Boris Blank's glass eye said:


> Wouldn't being forced to provide free housing violate the NAP?



Libertarians are hyper focused on normal people paying rent instead of big bailouts that enforce diversity quotas. It's pretty obvious that the corporate money is influencing them.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (May 13, 2020)

Slap47 said:


> Libertarians are hyper focused on normal people paying rent instead of big bailouts that enforce diversity quotas. It's pretty obvious that the corporate money is influencing them.


Too bad most lolbergs I know are "normal people" themselves, being trampled on by megacorps and fucked over by the housing market, but they'd "totally be making billions if not for those stupid laws and regulations!".

Really makes me think: most of the modern commies are upper middle-upper class twats, who'd be among the first to be shot in a Red Revolution, and similarly, most of the modern lolbergs are borderline sovcit fucknuggets who'd be among the first to be taken as slaves for the new corporate overlords. Honk.


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## FuckedUp (May 13, 2020)

Watermelanin said:


> Well given that the governments that had the quickest/strongest government response are recovering the fastest and those who tried to hold out for as long as possible without government intervention have seen the worst effects of it, lolbergs BTFO as far as I'm concerned.


Not gonna lie, that post-apocalyptic Stockholm footage was some depressing shit.


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## Hellbound Hellhound (May 20, 2020)

Libertarians aren't going to do well out of this pandemic at all. If there is one thing that this present crisis has highlighted, both painfully and undeniably, it's the importance of social safety nets in times of need. Libertarian arguments to the contrary are easily going to be made to look foolish and unsympathetic, because let's face it, they are.


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## Sweetpeaa (Apr 4, 2021)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> Libertarians aren't going to do well out of this pandemic at all. If there is one thing that this present crisis has highlighted, both painfully and undeniably, it's the importance of social safety nets in times of need. Libertarian arguments to the contrary are easily going to be made to look foolish and unsympathetic, because let's face it, they are.



Libertarians are largely made up of an early college aged demographic that think they're going to achieve massive economic freedom and get out of paying taxes by reducing safety nets. These kids just don't understand anything about the world or how the government functions. Governments almost never shrink. Even if you defund every social program the size of the government body doesn't change that much. And the will no matter how hard you try, how much you protest in the name of economic freedom they take a cut of your paycheck. Taxes don't just pay for ''social programs''. And tax evasion will never stop being a crime in the eyes of the government.


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## DeadFish (Apr 4, 2021)

The Pink Panther said:


> Libertarians aren't going to win.
> 
> In fact, they're losing right now because it seems like most governments want to shift authoritarian-left.


Which creates a demand for authoritarianism on the right. People demand authoritarianism as a response to threats


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## Demonslayer1776 (Apr 4, 2021)

Man, I remember seeing this thread a year ago, time sure flies. I'm glad it got bumped honestly, though I'm honestly surprised at how long its been, feels like it wasn't long ago I saw this thread. I feel like the sad reality is that the lolberts will lose on this issue, even if they were right. Loberts were correct that rona was an inflated issue, even before I agreed with them. But the sad reality of this world it that fear has more control than reality, and the media's portrayal will hurt them in the long run, even if they had a good point on this topic. Its pretty clear at this point that normies have bought into whatever the media says about rona, no matter how absurd it is. We aren't ruled by the reality we see around us, but rather the perception created by whatever the majority see on the news or their facebook feed. Lolberts are optimistic ideologues in a sense, I wish they could be more successful, but this world is too brutal and requires more power to attain any real action.


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## Sweetpeaa (Apr 5, 2021)

Demonslayer1776 said:


> Man, I remember seeing this thread a year ago, time sure flies. I'm glad it got bumped honestly, though I'm honestly surprised at how long its been, feels like it wasn't long ago I saw this thread. I feel like the sad reality is that the lolberts will lose on this issue, even if they were right. Loberts were correct that rona was an inflated issue, even before I agreed with them. But the sad reality of this world it that fear has more control than reality, and the media's portrayal will hurt them in the long run, even if they had a good point on this topic. Its pretty clear at this point that normies have bought into whatever the media says about rona, no matter how absurd it is. We aren't ruled by the reality we see around us, but rather the perception created by whatever the majority see on the news or their facebook feed. Lolberts are optimistic ideologues in a sense, I wish they could be more successful, but this world is too brutal and requires more power to attain any real action.



You underestimate how many baby boomers haven't left the workforce and are still in high office. Now, what age demographic fares the worst against Covid? it shouldn't be hard to figure out. They still (surprisingly I know) have control of the media too so of course they're gong to report on Covid in an apocalyptic sense because for them, it's a potential death sentence. Gen X and Millennials (who are in their 30's despite the media portraying them as no more than 21) should have more control of the media by now but sadly this isn't the case. Did you know the average age of a CNN viewer is 65?


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## L50LasPak (Apr 5, 2021)

I still disagree with the OP in this thread, but I am willing to admit that people by and large seem much more cynical and antisocial across the board since this was posted almost a year ago. Its not a difference of political opinion either, it seems to be spread pretty evenly between both left wing and right wing people. Even people in my personal life who used to never have time for my doomsaying are now agreeing with me more often than not.

Libertarianism itself may not have made any big gains in the midst of the lockdowns and riots, but its pretty clear that people, even regular people, are very disillusioned with the idea of a collective society right now. The people still clinging on to it are the ones who feel the vaccine is their salvation and that everything will return to normal after its deployed. How long that dynamic will last is up for debate, but its a pretty damn precarious thing to lean on.


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## Carlos Weston Chantor (Apr 5, 2021)

Who cares about libertarianism, it's just another misguided modernist ideology trying to use "reason" to come up with some universal moral truths and insights regarding how the society should look like (which is exactly what marxists do). Jews had their divine link severed when they murdered Christ so now they spend time making up dumb ideologies in their filthy perfidious brains. Marx, Trotsky, Lenin, Rothbard, von Mises, Ayn Rand - all just dumb jews with their dumb theories


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