# NUll's post in the roderick thread discussion



## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

> So, we're going to try this again.
> 
> For the uninitiated, I've deleted 330+ replies to this thread. All of them were shit. Every single reply was shit. Most of it was shitposting about how there was shitposting in the thread.
> 
> ...



This is what I have to say: lol


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK said:


> This is what I have to say: lol


maybe i should just adopt the edf policy and let every thread be shit ~


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## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

We just harass every bad member into never coming back. Funnier than a ban, imo.


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK said:


> We just harass every bad member into never coming back. Funnier than a ban, imo.


unregulated harassment isn't an effective form of moderation. it encourages everyone to be a dick and to trollshield. i'd rather be the only unlikable person on the forum than to have an entire forum of unlikable people.


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## Ariel (Jun 7, 2015)




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## MerriedManJr (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK confirmed for Null sock account.


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## Ariel (Jun 7, 2015)

MerriedManJr said:


> DNJACK confirmed for Null sock account.


yep


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

Luvs2Sperg789 said:


> So this thread was supposed to be infused with a less concentrated dose of autism this time, right?


Not gonna happen, since its been decided by nearly everyone that Cox is not a lolcow, that OP is bigoted, and that this thread should be locked

Null got strangely butt hurt and deleted  all the old comments and restarted  the thread, but he has shown to be fairly transphobic  in the past, so dont color me surprised.

The poor woman (Cox) just wants her real identity to be what people find when they search for her. And who knows if it was even her editing  her name? Anyone could have done it. I havent seen evidence either way 

Anyways, I still think, in all my creamy and fanta-y  power (aka none) that this thread is bad and I would not have sex with it.


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## DuskEngine (Jun 7, 2015)

Here's the thing though



Null said:


> Don't bring tranny shit into every thread. Take it to Deep Thoughts. If you can't access off-topic and/or don't want to be formally challenged on what you think, don't bring it up.
> 
> This includes
> Gender versus Sex
> "Chris isn't a *LEGIT* tranny" whining





introman said:


> When Kevin Williamson of the National Review wrote the article "Laverne Cox isn't a Woman", ee created a shit storm for something that is undeniably true. He didn't talk about moon crystals curing cancer or peddle Lupron to Autistic children. The outpouring negative response from the mainstream media, can be googled for those who want to read the "rebuttals".



mods r feg


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

DawnMachine said:


> Here's the thing though


intro probably could have been more neutral but chromosomes is chromosomes.

nb4/ people quote this and cite CAT scans or some gay shit proving _!!_ that trannies are women stuck in men's bodies because people literally cannot avoid disputing this every single time it is brought up even offhandedly.


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## Lucricities (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> intro probably could have been more neutral but chromosomes is chromosomes.
> 
> nb4/ people quote this and cite CAT scans or some gay shit proving _!!_ that trannies are women stuck in men's bodies because people literally cannot avoid disputing this every single time it is brought up even offhandedly.


It's driving me crazy. Your post felt so legitimate, it touched on all the right points to feel salty as all hell, but it has to be troll. You mods could have handled this in pretty much any other way if you weren't actually encouraging sperging. A shitpost to end all shitposts in an unfunny and slightly offensive thread, followed by leaving it open? No way you have to be more competent than that. In that case I applaud you for some of the most convincing trolling I've ever seen.


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

Lucricities said:


> It's driving me crazy. Your post felt so legitimate, it touched on all the right points to feel salty as all hell, but it has to be troll. You mods could have handled this in pretty much any other way if you weren't actually encouraging sperging. A shitpost to end all shitposts in an unfunny and slightly offensive thread, followed by leaving it open? No way you have to be more competent than that. In that case I applaud you for some of the most convincing trolling I've ever seen.


I'm actually pretty pissed that people are so easily offended on the site. If that's salt, whatever, who gives a shit. Put it on my ED page.

As I said in the post, non-cows get posted all the time.
https://kiwifarms.net/forums/lolcows.16/?order=reply_count&direction=asc

Just look. Look at all the threads that people posted that got zero fucking replies. Not a single one. There's a bunch you can't even see because they're deleted.

There are two reasons why this caught so much attention:
1. It's about a tranny.
2. Introman posted it and he wrote OP like Introman writes everything.

If it was about anything else or by anyone else it'd of gone unnoticed.

The problem here isn't that someone not funny or pertinent got a thread. The issue is that the whiners on the board cannot go without bringing up trans shit all the time. It's absolutely impossible. Trans people are like 0.1% of the entire population and they make up 50% of the fucking whining on this site.

I left the thread open like I leave the door open. I want people to feel uncomfortable. If that thread makes you uncomfortable, leave. Go. I don't care. I'm never going to remove content because it offends someone.

The point isn't to put out the fire, it's to control the burn.


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## KatsuKitty (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> I'm actually pretty pissed that people are so easily offended on the site. If that's salt, whatever, who gives a shit. Put it on my ED page.
> 
> As I said in the post, non-cows get posted all the time.
> https://kiwifarms.net/forums/lolcows.16/?order=reply_count&direction=asc
> ...



Introman is staff and thereby indirectly represents "official" site opinion in his words and actions.

People may be upset because his OP comes across as staff and site position/opinion. That's what I draw from this, anyway.


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## Lucricities (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> I'm actually pretty pissed that people are so easily offended on the site. If that's salt, whatever, who gives a shit. Put it on my ED page.
> 
> As I said in the post, non-cows get posted all the time.
> https://kiwifarms.net/forums/lolcows.16/?order=reply_count&direction=asc
> ...


Alright you've convinced me. I apologize for the accusation. From my perspective the thread as worded was begging for derailment and that's all there was to it. There's a certain base autism you can expect from any community and this feels safely within those limits. From the perspective of watching these little shitstorm fires starting I see your point. This felt like it was more of an issue of picking pretty well received celebrity as a target, but bringing up the National Review and a harsh stance on trans people in general probably was what really got it going.


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## DuskEngine (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> intro probably could have been more neutral but chromosomes is chromosomes.



I don't disagree but you can't really pitch a rock into that hornet's nest and get mad when you hear buzzing.



Null said:


> I'm actually pretty pissed that people are so easily offended on the site. If that's salt, whatever, who gives a shit. Put it on my ED page.



The only thing that's offended me about this is the way it's been handled. Seeing a staff member openly disregard so many of the rules and post stuff that is (for better or for worse) bound to stir up shit is pretty disheartening.



Null said:


> The problem here isn't that someone not funny or pertinent got a thread. The issue is that the whiners on the board cannot go without bringing up trans shit all the time.



Bullshit. At least a quarter of the cows on this site are trans and most of them manage to get by with little to no gender politics sperging.


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

DawnMachine said:


> Bullshit. At least a quarter of the cows on this site are trans and most of them manage to get by with little to no gender politics sperging.


What, people like ADF? That's because it's easy not to support them.

Diagnosed trannies are _extremely_ quick to disown people like Chris, ADF, RWS, etc. They are what Tumblr calls "truscum", meaning they require a medical diagnosis before acknowledging someone as trans. People like the ones I've mentioned are either too poor or dysfunctional to go to the doc' for therapy, so they never get their papers. It's a great and easy way to separate people who shame the transgender community.

Trannies go "oh ADF isn't a _legit_ trans, therefore it's OK to call him a _he_ and disrespect him". Same with Chris. Trannies flipped out over Chris coming out as trans because they don't want to be in the same category as him, even though Chris is definitely someone who despises his male genitals and quite obviously wants to become a woman and has for some time. Even when he was in his late teens, he was playing with ancient My Little Pony toys and encouraging other men his age to do the same.

It's a matter of semantics. It's a prudish, cheap way of cutting a line between icky gross trannies like ADF and prim proper trannies like Jenner. I stand by what I say on those grounds.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

Interesting that any post disagreeing with OP gets bawwwleted.


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> Not gonna happen, since its been decided by nearly everyone that Cox is not a lolcow, that OP is bigoted, and that this thread should be locked
> 
> Null got strangely butt hurt and deleted  all the old comments and restarted  the thread, but he has shown to be fairly transphobic  in the past, so dont color me surprised.
> 
> ...





creamyfanta said:


> Interesting that any post disagreeing with OP gets bawwwleted.


I specifically directed you to this thread when I deleted your posts and you're too fucking stupid to figure it out so I've moved it for you.

Feel free to bitch and whine here. The issue was topic pertinence, not what you've said. Since you can't piece that together I've done it on your behalf.


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## SpessCaptain (Jun 7, 2015)

Spoiler: This thread


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## A Ghost (Jun 7, 2015)

wait people care about the roderick thread? i thought it was decide it was a stupid thread and it was to be ignored


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## SpessCaptain (Jun 7, 2015)

geekboy400 said:


> wait people care about the roderick thread? i thought it was decide it was a stupid thread and it was to be ignored


Because people want to be upstarting moralfags and say "OH THEY'RE NOT A LOLCOW."


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## A Ghost (Jun 7, 2015)

Valiant said:


> Because people want to be upstarting moralfags and say "OH THEY'RE NOT A LOLCOW."


well to be fair she isnt really a lolcow in a normal sense (or atlest she isn't in my option) but yeah alot of people lose the right to be a moralfag when they post on this form


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## DuskEngine (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> What, people like ADF? That's because it's easy not to support them.
> 
> Diagnosed trannies are _extremely_ quick to disown people like Chris, ADF, RWS, etc. They are what Tumblr calls "truscum", meaning they require a medical diagnosis before acknowledging someone as trans. People like the ones I've mentioned are either too poor or dysfunctional to go to the doc' for therapy, so they never get their papers. It's a great and easy way to separate people who shame the transgender community.
> 
> ...



Fair point, and one I hadn't considered. It would be interesting to see if that thread would have gone down differently if Cox was another obviously unstable, mentally ill tranny

Why did the celebrity rule not get applied in this case? Is that just something that's being ignored? What's to stop someone from doing something exceptional like starting an Obama lolcow thread tomorrow?


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## OtterParty (Jun 7, 2015)

geekboy400 said:


> well to be fair she isnt really a lolcow in a normal sense (or atlest she isn't in my option) but yeah alot of people lose the right to be a moralfag when they post on this form


>she


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## Clown Doll (Jun 7, 2015)

DawnMachine said:


> What's to stop someone from doing something exceptional like starting an Obama lolcow thread tomorrow?


We had a Ronald Reagan thread some time ago(that was swiftly locked because there isn't much lolcow-ery).


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## Bronchitis that Lingers (Jun 7, 2015)

I feel like people who get vehemently angry over things regarding gender/sexuality have had something in their past that's the opposite of their current views, most likely out of guilt. Like how some guys in the closet will fly off the handle at a gay joke, certain trans supporters who aren't trans will foam at the mouth over the rights of others because at some point in their life, they viewed trans people as "wrong". This was quite common ten years ago when gay acceptance started becoming a hot button, people who made gay jokes or said "fag" outside of the derogatory term suddenly felt bad, and had to put everyone else down around them who made these jokes to prove to themselves that they weren't awful people.

There was no reason why that thread needed to have 300 replies and people defending Cox, a celebrity, other than people wanted to prove that they weren't trans phobic.


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

DawnMachine said:


> Why did the celebrity rule not get applied in this case? Is that just something that's being ignored? What's to stop someone from doing something exceptional like starting an Obama lolcow thread tomorrow?


It probably would've been locked or ignored had it not been made by Introman. He set me a PM a few days before making it asking for permission and I OK'd it out of apathy.


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## HG 400 (Jun 7, 2015)

Can I make a thread for obama?


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## Darwin Watterson (Jun 7, 2015)

I like the new "pronouns" section, which I can only assume has resulted from this thread. However, I'm wondering if it's possible to change the pronouns, and if so, where I could go to do that. I've noticed that some people have different pronouns than others, and I'm not sure if it's randomly set or if they changed them themselves. If the former, I'm deeply offended. Being a fish who evolved to grow legs, my pronouns are "fish/fish/fishself." This site is oppressing me by assuming that I am a white, human woman apparently. You all need to check your privilege! DOWN WITH THE CIS-TEM!!! (Inb4 someone takes this seriously: Obviously, I'm joking, but I do wonder about the mechanics of this new pronoun thing).


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## Ruin (Jun 7, 2015)

Why prune the thread? Why not move it into the Tumblr subforum and let morons scream about pronouns all they want? It's a win win, idiots can have their social justice circle jerk and the rest of us can laugh at the caged monkeys without infecting the rest of the site with shit.


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## Figgus (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> It probably would've been locked or ignored had it not been made by Introman. He set me a PM a few days before making it asking for permission and I OK'd it out of apathy.


So if you usually delete that kind of thread, you really didn't have a baseline to know what would happen if a shit tier thread were allowed to survive and got popular against the odds. Surprise, it was a clusterfuck. Nobody could have ever seen this coming. Another surprise: a forum about autism is full of autism. Haven't you been around long enough to know that, especially considering yourself as the prime example?


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> So if you usually delete that kind of thread, you really didn't have a baseline to know what would happen if a shit tier thread were allowed to survive and got popular against the odds. Surprise, it was a clusterfuck. Nobody could have ever seen this coming. Another surprise: a forum about autism is full of autism. Haven't you been around long enough to know that, especially considering yourself as the prime example?


Your post has no coherent point and comes off as a whine. I think you're trying to say "the forum (especially you _!!_) is autistic, so shitty threads are expected". If that's the case, you're dumb and I don't even know why you're here.

Introman made a thread about a person of interest to him, as many people have. Some easily offended users didn't like the thread, and since moderation was not bending to their whim, they decided to post nonsense and be disruptive. I've seen this on my own in a different community. I made a thread to complain about something and people jumped on me. I decided to ignore them, but they began to spam pictures of defective toys and shit they saw on reddit to try and stifle discussion by just loading the thread up with bullshit.

That's why I called it de facto moderation. It's an attempt to regulate the board by just diminishing the quality of the conversation to the point where it's not worth having.

There is no measuring stick applied to what stays in Lolcow threads. We play by ear. It's a mod decision. Introman is a mod and he said his topic was worth having so I took his word on it. That's the entirety of our process to approving threads.


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## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

Stop shitposting my thread.

In other news,

Null is a cow.


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## Null (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK said:


> Stop shitposting my thread.
> 
> In other news,
> 
> Null is a cow.


i am a fly over cow moooooooooooo


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## niggers (Jun 7, 2015)

> I will burn it out of the forum before I let it control every discussion.



write this out on a post-it note and slap it above your monitor.

i would be legit crestfallen if this place turned into something awful. don't let that happen null baby.


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## Figgus (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> Your post has no coherent point and comes off as a whine. I think you're trying to say "the forum (especially you _!!_) is autistic, so shitty threads are expected".


My point is that the thread really should have been deleted when it got to 8 pages and 90% of the posts were just saying "This thread is boring and should be deleted." Not because they were asking for deletion (obvoiusly if there's lulz to be had then keep it alive by all means), but because that in itself makes it a shitty thread. My point about there being a lot of autism here is that when there's nothing of interest in a thread, on a site like this it can only die or get autistic.


Null said:


> If that's the case, you're dumb and I don't even know why you're here.


For all the dank memes of course. I can't even tell if the rest of your post is directed at me or what, so I'm just gonna end it here.


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## dabluearmedbandit (Jun 7, 2015)

KatsuKitty said:


> Introman is staff and thereby indirectly represents "official" site opinion in his words and actions.
> 
> People may be upset because his OP comes across as staff and site position/opinion. That's what I draw from this, anyway.



But why does that matter? He represents the staff of a website dedicated to watching a retarded manchild collapse in on himself like a dying sun. This website isn't some big huge hub of all kinds of people, it's a very niche market that only assholes enjoy. People shouldn't go to an asshole website and then get picky about what everyone is allowed to be assholes about.


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## HG 400 (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> Not because they were asking for deletion (obvoiusly if there's lulz to be had then keep it alive by all means), but because that in itself makes it a shitty thread.



That's kind of his point. People were deliberately making the thread shitty because they wanted it deleted. When some asshole kid keeps shitting in the sandbox because he doesn't like making sandcastles, do you ban everyone from using the sandbox or do you just send that asshole kid to a special school for retards?


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## Figgus (Jun 7, 2015)

Dynastia said:


> That's kind of his point. People were deliberately making the thread shitty because they wanted it deleted. When some asshole kid keeps shitting in the sandbox because he doesn't like making sandcastles, do you ban everyone from using the sandbox or do you just send that asshole kid to a special school for retards?


You have a point, but what happened here is that all the normal kids left the sandbox when that asshole kid started shitting in it, and all the other tards came over and joined in until there was nothing but shit in the sandbox. And at that point, yes, you should probably ban all the kids from using it, if only to prevent them from getting covered in shit.


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## Eponine (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> You have a point, but what happened here is that all the normal kids left the sandbox when that asshole kid started shitting in it, and all the other tards came over and joined in until there was nothing but shit in the sandbox. And at that point, yes, you should probably ban all the kids from using it, if only to prevent them from getting covered in shit.


We might be pushing this sandbox analogy a bit far. At this rate, we'll have a good source of fertiliser to grow our own cows. Sustainability!


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## SpessCaptain (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> You have a point, but what happened here is that all the normal kids left the sandbox when that asshole kid started shitting in it, and all the other tards came over and joined in until there was nothing but shit in the sandbox. And at that point, yes, you should probably ban all the kids from using it, if only to prevent them from getting covered in shit.




Did you really fucking post about kids shitting into a sandpit until it became a shitpit?


Holy fuck.


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## Cuck Norris (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> You have a point, but what happened here is that all the normal kids left the sandbox when that asshole kid started shitting in it, and all the other tards came over and joined in until there was nothing but shit in the sandbox. And at that point, yes, you should probably ban all the kids from using it, if only to prevent them from getting covered in shit.


Except we aren't children. The forum is 18+. People are supposed to be adults. If a thread topic isn't funny or rustles your jimmies, logic would dictate you should just not read or post in it. I don't give two fucks about ForeverKailyn but I don't go shitting up her thread about how she is or isn't a real cosmetologist. I simply don't bother with the thread.


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## Figgus (Jun 7, 2015)

PurpleMonkeyDishwasher said:


> Except we aren't children. The forum is 18+. People are supposed to be adults. If a thread topic isn't funny or rustles your jimmies, logic would dictate you should just not read or post in it. I don't give two fucks about ForeverKailyn but I don't go shitting up her thread about how she is or isn't a real cosmetologist. I simply don't bother with the thread.


I think you're expecting  little much from the kinds of autists who shit up a thread like that. Remember, they are literally autistic. Not an insult, not a meme, actual autism. Not bothering with a thread you're not interested in is a given for adults assuming those adults are fully functioning, but that's not an assumption you can make on kiwifarms, unfortunately.


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## SpessCaptain (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> I think you're expecting  little much from the kinds of autists who shit up a thread like that. Remember, they are literally autistic. Not an insult, not a meme, actual autism. Not bothering with a thread you're not interested in is a given for adults assuming those adults are fully functioning, but that's not an assumption you can make on kiwifarms, unfortunately.


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## dabluearmedbandit (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> I think you're expecting  little much from the kinds of autists who shit up a thread like that. Remember, they are literally autistic. Not an insult, not a meme, actual autism. Not bothering with a thread you're not interested in is a given for adults assuming those adults are fully functioning, but that's not an assumption you can make on kiwifarms, unfortunately.


 This isn't tumblr, we shouldn't have to child-proof everything just because there are literal tards here.


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## Eponine (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> I think you're expecting  little much from the kinds of autists who shit up a thread like that. Remember, they are literally autistic. Not an insult, not a meme, actual autism. Not bothering with a thread you're not interested in is a given for adults assuming those adults are fully functioning, but that's not an assumption you can make on kiwifarms, unfortunately.


If autism is the metric by which we define people who can't help but argue on the internet over something they took offence to, I'd be worried about the state of humanity.


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## Figgus (Jun 7, 2015)

dabluearmedbandit said:


> This isn't tumblr, we shouldn't have to child-proof everything just because there are literal tards here.


Sure, but it also means there's no reason to get salty about a thread going off the rails with autism like that. It's just going to happen by the nature of the forum. It's that very saltiness ('waahhh, my site about autism has autism in it') that made Null unwilling to just kill the shitty thread for so long.


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## CatParty (Jun 7, 2015)

Null said:


> I'm actually pretty pissed that people are so easily offended on the site.





CatParty said:


> if you are coming here from tumblr, you should probably go back


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## Yellow Yam Scam (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> I think you're expecting  little much from the kinds of autists who shit up a thread like that. Remember, they are literally autistic. Not an insult, not a meme, actual autism. Not bothering with a thread you're not interested in is a given for adults assuming those adults are fully functioning, but that's not an assumption you can make on kiwifarms, unfortunately.



You're over here acting like a thread title is a legal decree about it's content. Sometimes it's just fun to talk shit, man.


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## Le Bateleur (Jun 7, 2015)

Valiant said:


> Did you really fucking post about kids shitting into a sandpit until it became a shitpit?
> 
> 
> Holy fuck.


They do say it's best to write about what you know...


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## Zvantastika (Jun 7, 2015)

Yellow Yam Scam said:


> Sometimes it's just fun to talk shit, man.


Problem is, not everyone thinks it's "fun" to read 20+ pages of shit when you're actually trying to make a point in that thread or trying to understand what the fuck is going on.


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## Alex Krycek (Jun 7, 2015)

How about this, suggestion for a new rule:
*If you care too strongly about a topic or issue, don't post in a thread discussing that topic or issue.*

I have no problem with Cox and yet I think there is legitimacy in the stereotype of the 'crazy tranny'. Sure it isn't fair to every trans person out there and not all trans people are crazy, but the stereotype exists for a reason. I see a thread I have no input in or don't care to comment on? I say nothing about it, maybe give out a few ratings and move on. Nobody should get so worked up over a thread that they froth at the mouth and get a hate-boner for staff. It's dumb and defeats the purpose of these boards. Said my piece about it.


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## Red_Rager (Jun 7, 2015)

Have you heard about this great place called the outdoors? If you are finding yourself suffering a severe case of butthurt, please shutdown your computer and go outside.


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## The Jumping Dwarf (Jun 7, 2015)

Lucricities said:


> That is legitemately amusing coming from one of the most butthurt spergs in that forum. You were salty as fuck my friend. Null has a community to keep together what's your excuse?



For fuck's sake stop creating drama you sped. What we don't need is infighting between forum members. What the hell made you think this comment was pertinent in any way?


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## Lucricities (Jun 7, 2015)

The Jumping Dwarf said:


> For fuck's sake stop creating drama you sped. What we don't need is infighting between forum members. What the hell made you think this comment was pertinent in any way?


Alot of lack of self awareness with these posts, but I'll include myself and apologize for shitting things up. Deleted.


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## MrTroll (Jun 7, 2015)

Figgus said:


> My point is that the thread really should have been deleted when it got to 8 pages and 90% of the posts were just saying "This thread is boring and should be deleted." Not because they were asking for deletion (obvoiusly if there's lulz to be had then keep it alive by all means), but because that in itself makes it a shitty thread. My point about there being a lot of autism here is that when there's nothing of interest in a thread, on a site like this it can only die or get autistic.



Deleting or locking threads when they get bad or have outlived their usefulness is a sensible moderation policy, but if it's the result of sabotage (as in the case of Introman's thread), you're essentially surrendering to the heckler's veto, and the last thing a site like this needs is a group of uber-sensitive tumblristas going around, shitposting in every thread that offends them because they know they can easily scuttle it that way.


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## AnOminous (Jun 7, 2015)

MrTroll said:


> Deleting or locking threads when they get bad or have outlived their usefulness is a sensible moderation policy, but if it's the result of sabotage (as in the case of Introman's thread), you're essentially surrendering to the heckler's veto, and the last thing a site like this needs is a group of uber-sensitive tumblristas going around, shitposting in every thread that offends them because they know they can easily scuttle it that way.



I didn't see anyone deliberately shitposting just to get the thread trashed, any more than they did in the ludicrous thread about that nut who killed/mutilated that dog.


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## A Ghost (Jun 7, 2015)

MrTroll said:


> Deleting or locking threads when they get bad or have outlived their usefulness is a sensible moderation policy, but if it's the result of sabotage (as in the case of Introman's thread),.


see i dont see it as sabotage when the thread didn't have a chance to begin with but i dont think people should have reported it instead of shit posting in it and making it into cancer


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## MrTroll (Jun 7, 2015)

AnOminous said:


> I didn't see anyone deliberately shitposting just to get the thread trashed, any more than they did in the ludicrous thread about that nut who killed/mutilated that dog.



The first few pages were almost entirely devoted to people whining about transphobia or the no celebrities rule. I'm pretty sure moral nagging and backseat moderating (in a thread posted by a moderator, no less) count as shit-posting. Obviously they had no intention of actually meaningfully contributing to the discussion, and as Null pointed out, the cow forums are filled with threads that never received a single reply, so what drew so many people out of the woodwork to that particular thread if not to derail it?


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## XYZpdq (Jun 7, 2015)

I think part of it is the shift from focusing less on "lolcow" and more on "moral outrage cow". It encourages people to be judgemental dumbfucks.


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## bawwwtism (Jun 7, 2015)

MrTroll said:


> so what drew so many people out of the woodwork to that particular thread if not to derail it?


Probably the fact that it was Featured thread. That's exactly how Fanta's thread ballooned to over 20 pages.


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## MrTroll (Jun 7, 2015)

bawwwtism said:


> Probably the fact that it was Featured thread. That's exactly how Fanta's thread ballooned to over 20 pages.



Well, the thing is, for a thread to be featured, it has to get something like 50 posts in the space of 6 hours (it's an automatic process from what I understand). So it was already pretty active with the kind of posts I'm talking about long before it became featured.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

My issues were that
1. The thread really didnt follow any of the rules all the rest of us non staff are expected to follow and wasnt immediately locked.

2. It seemed more like people wanted to rag on transexuals rather than actually talk about a lolcow. I can accept (but dislike and disagree with) the fact that we dont all agree what is a "woman" and what is a "man," but if we are being mean about someone (with Cox it just seemed mean rather than humorous) solely because we are uncomfortable with the fact they have a different gender than the sex they were born with then I see no reason for it to be in the lolcow section of the forum. ADF and the other funny transexuals  on here are funny for reasons other than the mere fact they are transexuals.

Also, it does make me uncomfortable that there is so much apparent hate for transexuals throughout  the members on this site. But whatever, as stated I accept that we can disagree. 

Haters, bring on the autistic and dumb ratings, whatevs.


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## Delicious Stickmeat (Jun 7, 2015)

I don't care if people hate on trannys. If that's how you feel, so be it.  

If you're going to do shit like misgendering and such, own it.  Don't try to rationalize and justify your hate with things like "But teh chromosomes!". Just fucking stand up and say "I hate trannys, and I'm gonna do shit to bother them."


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## AnOminous (Jun 7, 2015)

MrTroll said:


> Obviously they had no intention of actually meaningfully contributing to the discussion, and as Null pointed out, the cow forums are filled with threads that never received a single reply, so what drew so many people out of the woodwork to that particular thread if not to derail it?



Maybe they just felt like saying something about it.  I really doubt anyone was rubbing their hands together in glee saying "Let's shitpost until this thread gets closed."  Then people got inordinately assblasted on both sides and that's when the thread really went to shit.


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## Ification (Jun 7, 2015)

Maybe we should just ban discussions of important matters in the lolcow threads. That way we can lessen the drama and focus on why people focus on lolcows in the first place: look at the funny situations they get themselves into. Save the stuff that gets everyone pissed off for the deep thoughts forum.


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## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

My nice threads brings all the whiny bitches to the yard.


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## MrTroll (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> My issues were that
> 1. The thread really didnt follow any of the rules all the rest of us non staff are expected to follow and wasnt immediately locked.
> 
> 2. It seemed more like people wanted to rag on transexuals rather than actually talk about a lolcow. I can accept (but dislike and disagree with) the fact that we dont all agree what is a "woman" and what is a "man," but if we are being mean about someone (with Cox it just seemed mean rather than humorous) solely because we are uncomfortable with the fact they have a different gender than the sex they were born with then I see no reason for it to be in the lolcow section of the forum. ADF and the other funny transexuals  on here are funny for reasons other than the mere fact they are transexuals.
> ...



The rules are more guidelines than iron-clad posting requirements in most cases. The no celebrities rule, for example. Right now, there are threads (from non-moderators) on famous "historical" lolcows, former celebrities, Jack Chick, and I think there's one about the Duggar family floating around somewhere. Arguably the subjects of these threads are for the most part at least as famous as Laverne Cox. And I'm pretty sure moderators have always had the authority to allow an exception to one of the rules if asked in advance (i.e. no threads about current/former Kiwi Farms members). So really I'm just not seeing the big deal about supposed differential treatment of threads from staff versus non-staff. Introman did mention that he asked Null personally for permission to post the Cox thread. Anyone, staff or not could have made a similar pitch and I'm guessing he would have signed off on it all the same. You can't say that the thread was badly-written or researched. He cited plenty of examples of Cox's bizarre behavior (i.e. the Wikipedia edit war).

I also don't remember much "ragging" on transsexuals in that thread. A lot of people got huffy because the original post didn't use the "right" pronouns for Cox, but I sure don't recall any hate-filled rants against trannies.


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## Dudeofteenage (Jun 7, 2015)

Ification said:


> Maybe we should just ban discussions of important matters in the lolcow threads. That way we can lessen the drama and focus on why people focus on lolcows in the first place: look at the funny situations they get themselves into. Save the stuff that gets everyone pissed off for the deep thoughts forum.



It's not really possible to totally divorce the two, though.  You'll often have people saying "This isn't funny to me because [moral consideration]".


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

[QUOTE="MrTroll, post: 758712, member:]

I also don't remember much "ragging" on transsexuals in that thread. A lot of people got huffy because the original post didn't use the "right" pronouns for Cox, but I sure don't recall any hate-filled rants against trannies.[/QUOTE]
To someone who has had a sex transition (as annoying as it sounds) misusing  a pronoun is super insulting  and totally degrading for them. It questions their entire identity. So I think at the very least for people who have fully had the transition, such as Cox, it is hateful  to use the wrong pronoun. You are essentially telling them that their entire person is incorrect. It is belittling. Thats my problem with it.

Ps. Sorry I broke the quote  idk how to fix it


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## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

If you need to define if you are male or female to define your identity, you pretty much havent much going on for you. And in my mind trans will never be male or female, no matter how much you want it to be different. it doesn't mean I hate you. A couple of hormones and an imagination just doesn't make it true. People use pronouns to reflet how they perceive you, and people can't change their percepetions because you can't handle it.



creamyfanta said:


> MrTroll said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AnOminous (Jun 7, 2015)

MrTroll said:


> He cited plenty of examples of Cox's bizarre behavior (i.e. the Wikipedia edit war).



There wasn't even an edit war, though.  Just a few edits nearly a year ago that resulted in little to nothing.

That's the entirety of the "edit war" as far as Cox was involved.

Then the rest of the edit policy discussion continued without Lavernecox3000, and was a completely pedestrian argument about BLP and the names policy and reliable source policy.  Here's the entirety of the edits made to the article.  You can just search through that for Lavernecox3000 to get to where the argument happened (and effectively upheld the original edits).

It's mildly cowish to make edits to your own Wikipedia article, especially while using your real name in the username and yet referring to yourself in the third person.  But seriously, doing it once and then going away and actually winning the "edit war?"  How many cows win edit wars?


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## I AM STRAIGHT!!!! (Jun 7, 2015)

What's wrong with infighting? Is this supposed to be a community (seriously?) or are we here to be our asshole selves? The best part of the thread was when someone said "Don't do this guys! Think of how this will look to /cow/!"

What is more likely: Hundreds of literal SJWs have come here, of all places? Or troll safe-space has been invaded by relatively-normal people who are now the majority and feel free to complain about and shit up the dumber, more trollish OPs?

Some kiwis are shut-ins who think normal people are all SJWs because they take tumblr seriously and don't see the irony in this. And there are some who don't dig troll-culture so much and don't want to yield to the worst impulses without complaining.

Neither group is going to leave. Ergo infighting. That should be ok and fair. What is this, tumblr? We could have a "before you follow" that comes up before new kiwis register that says, "complaining about what someone posted is hate speech backseat moderation and it triggers us" etc.

Without assumptions about who got offended first, and what defines "taking offense", nothing actually makes Null's chimp-out and bawleetion less lulzy or blameworthy than any other lulzy act. Clearly his prerogative is to keep thousands of members along with a veteran troll crowd satisfied, and his only choices are ban people or scold people en masse while calling "backseat moderation". I don't envy this dilemma, don't have a real criticism here.

At the same time nothing about how this went down was consistent with some kind of troll ideal. My point is that if you really think your troll space is being invaded by SJWs, show them your best troll behavior, not your best imitation of SJW behavior.


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## ln18 (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm still surprised to see all this earnest genuine consciousness raising for the trans on the farms. Gonna make kiwifarms sunshine and rainbows of safe space through persuasive argument.

Where are the die hard autism reps to take the bravestand! and let everyone know it's actually kind of mean to yknow hold up autistics as objects of ridicule?


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## MrTroll (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> To someone who has had a sex transition (as annoying as it sounds) misusing  a pronoun is super insulting  and totally degrading for them. It questions their entire identity. So I think at the very least for people who have fully had the transition, such as Cox, it is hateful  to use the wrong pronoun. You are essentially telling them that their entire person is incorrect. It is belittling. Thats my problem with it.
> 
> Ps. Sorry I broke the quote  idk how to fix it



I really think you need some perspective here. This is a forum devoted to making fun of people, most of whom have serious mental or psychological problems. It would be pretty silly to make a thread about someone (or post in such a thread) for the express purpose of laughing at and ridiculing them and at the same time worry about "degrading" them with the wrong pronoun.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

If it walks and talks and looks like a woman, then I see no reason its not a woman. Or viceversa versa. Why are people so hung up on continuing  to use pronouns that are no longer accurate  descriptors? To anyone who sees Cox, she is female. Even a hot female. So by calling her a man it really is just confusing and inherently  incorrect, except for her past. Its just misleading.


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## HG 400 (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> If it walks and talks and looks like a woman, then I see no reason its not a woman.



I walk, talk and look like I'm not a white supremacist child-rapist in a death cult. Are you going to accept my self-appointed identity of normal-dude-who-totally-isn't-a-suicidal-nazi-child-molester and let me babysit your vulnerable mixed-race kids?


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## dabluearmedbandit (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> If it walks and talks and looks like a woman, then I see no reason its not a woman. Or viceversa versa. Why are people so hung up on continuing  to use pronouns that are no longer accurate  descriptors? To anyone who sees Cox, she is female. Even a hot female. So by calling her a man it really is just confusing and inherently  incorrect, except for her past. Its just misleading.


Because this website is supposed to be funny and no one gives a shit. I could give a fuck about anyone's opinions, this site exists for funny.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

Laughing at lolcows for being spergs is very different than being intolerant of people who are only trying to be true to themselves and not doing anything wrong or spergalicious.

Like, lol that black guy is funny cuz he black vs. Lol that black guy funny cuz he masturbates  to MLP and makes rage videos when people criticize his fetish.

Im happy to poke fun at spergs, but just because you got a sex change doesn't mean you are inherently a sperg. That kinda hate belongs  in a different forum, imo.


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## HG 400 (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> but just because you got a sex change doesn't mean you are inherently a sperg



Yes it does.


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## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

Gender is not just look&feel. DrFanta.


creamyfanta said:


> If it walks and talks and looks like a woman, then I see no reason its not a woman. Or viceversa versa. Why are people so hung up on continuing  to use pronouns that are no longer accurate  descriptors? To anyone who sees Cox, she is female. Even a hot female. So by calling her a man it really is just confusing and inherently  incorrect, except for her past. Its just misleading.


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## ln18 (Jun 7, 2015)

creamyfanta said:


> Laughing at lolcows for being spergs is very different than being intolerant of people who are only trying to be true to themselves and not doing anything wrong or spergalicious.
> 
> Like, lol that black guy is funny cuz he black vs. Lol that black guy funny cuz he masturbates  to MLP and makes rage videos when people criticize his fetish.
> 
> Im happy to poke fun at spergs, but just because you got a sex change doesn't mean you are inherently a sperg. That kinda hate belongs  in a different forum, imo.



I just like how this discussion is inevitably... we need lines here! (draws chalkline around transself) 

This whole thing is inherently crossing the line of what's moral. It's not right to laugh at people.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK said:


> Gender is not just look&feel. DrFanta.



Im not DrFanta  but we do share a last name!


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## AnOminous (Jun 7, 2015)

Dynastia said:


> Yes it does.



Oh yeah?  Well, just because you're autistic doesn't mean you're a bad person who should be beaten up.


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## DNJACK (Jun 7, 2015)

Back on topic people.

Null is fat.


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## HG 400 (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK said:


> Back on topic people.
> 
> Null is fat.



He's fat and he's being a dick.


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## AnOminous (Jun 7, 2015)

ln18 said:


> It's not right to laugh at people.



u wot m8?  ill ook u in the gabber i swear on me mum.


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## BOLDYSPICY! (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm as left-leaning as they come, but I think getting all butthurt over this shit is kinda like getting your knickers in a twist because people throw around "nigger" & "faggot" on imageboards. It used to really rustle my jimmies, but I learned to just roll my eyes & move on. While I don't think that Cox is a lolcow, that could always change. After all, we've had countless people who've had threads made about them that didn't seem like they'd be lolcow material, & then they chimped out & proved everyone wrong.

I wish all the infighting would stop, though. But it's just one of those things that'll happen anywhere.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

I liked writing stupid limericks  about lolcows instead of fighting. Can we just do that and agree to disagree? 


I can make one about pixy next


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## Raroo (Jun 7, 2015)

Here's the deal. At least once every day someone types up some edgy try hard story about how they would love to see whichever lolcow they hate get what's coming to them. They talk about how Nick Bate deserves to get butt fucked to death, or how Chris needs to go to prison for 20 years for using pepper spray, or how Vade needs to cut herself/himself/itself/whofuckingcaresself too deep during a self harm episode. Entire threads revolve around engaging with cows in conversation and laughing at them when they respond by saying they are the smartest "&/or" the funniest.

In other words, this forum isn't about being nice to people. It's about laughing at people who are different. More importantly people who are different and funny because of it. If you don't think that disrespecting pronouns is funny then don't participate. No one cares. 

I personally didn't see anything funny about the person, and as a consequence, I didn't post in the thread. The ensuing madness, however, was funny, if only because it was confusing and honestly very telling. People think that this is some safe harbor where everyone agrees and we all get along and no one hates anything or anyone. But that's stupid, and anyone over twelve knows that.


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## CatParty (Jun 7, 2015)

The Jumping Dwarf said:


> For fuck's sake stop creating drama you sped. What we don't need is infighting between forum members. What the hell made you think this comment was pertinent in any way?


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## Red_Rager (Jun 7, 2015)

Raroo said:


> Here's the deal. At least once every day someone types up some edgy try hard story about how they would love to see whichever lolcow they hate get what's coming to them. They talk about how Nick Bate deserves to get butt fucked to death, or how Chris needs to go to prison for 20 years for using pepper spray, or how Vade needs to cut herself/himself/itself/whofuckingcaresself too deep during a self harm episode. Entire threads revolve around engaging with cows in conversation and laughing at them when they respond by saying they are the smartest "&/or" the funniest.
> 
> In other words, this forum isn't about being nice to people. It's about laughing at people who are different. More importantly people who are different and funny because of it. If you don't think that disrespecting pronouns is funny then don't participate. No one cares.
> 
> I personally didn't see anything funny about the person, and as a consequence, I didn't post in the thread. The ensuing madness, however, was funny, if only because it was confusing and honestly very telling. People think that this is some safe harbor where everyone agrees and we all get along and no one hates anything or anyone. But that's stupid, and anyone over twelve knows that.


It would be rather boring if everyone got a long. What matters is how dissenting opinions is handled. How dissent is handled is very reflective of a given community.


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## Dr. Meme (Jun 7, 2015)

Tumblr please go home


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## APerson (Jun 7, 2015)

I didn't post in the original thread because it was way too long, but I think 330 posts of "this should be closed" is way too many. I don't think that celebrities are lolcows, but that's my opinion. The thing that I really wanted to say as a Wikipedian with a few thousand edits is that Cox's edits to Wikipedia are not atypical. Most people start editing because they see that something that they're close to is wrong in their opinion. And I've seen much, MUCH worse promotional and/or angry edits, as a new article approver.


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## Luna (Jun 7, 2015)

DNJACK said:


> Null is fat.


And sassy


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## HG 400 (Jun 7, 2015)

Luna said:


> And sassy



_Now_ I get why he has n-word privileges.


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## Luna (Jun 7, 2015)

Dynastia said:


> _Now_ I get why he has n-word privileges.


Turns out Null was Cox the whole time.


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## PeteyCoffee (Jun 7, 2015)

dabluearmedbandit said:


> But why does that matter? He represents the staff of a website dedicated to watching a retarded manchild collapse in on himself like a dying sun. This website isn't some big huge hub of all kinds of people, it's a very niche market that only assholes enjoy. People shouldn't go to an asshole website and then get picky about what everyone is allowed to be assholes about.



This is how I see it.

From their point of view I'm an asshole - because they disapprove of my point of view. But actually I'm honest, I'm just, and I'm reasonable, so they're the assholes.

To agree with what someone has to say about you is to submit to that person's point of view. It can often be a good thing to submit to a person who is honest, just, and reasonable. But to ever submit to the dishonest, the unjust, the unreasonable is unhealthy. (Edit - I don't think you're an asshole, and I don't think this is an asshole website!)

On the other hand, if the act of candidly sharing how you feel about people makes you an asshole in some very general sense - then, everyone in the world is either an asshole or a bullshitter; the virtuous are among the assholes.


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## PeteyCoffee (Jun 7, 2015)

Zvantastika said:


> Problem is, not everyone thinks it's "fun" to read 20+ pages of shit when you're actually trying to make a point in that thread or trying to understand what the fuck is going on.


But the people who do think it's a riot.


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## Trombonista (Jun 7, 2015)

It took me less than a day to realize the Laverne Cox thread was bait to exploit the Featured system, so I just started bumping other threads. Does this make me the least autistic member of the forum, or the most autistic?


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## Luna (Jun 7, 2015)

trombonista said:


> It took me less than a day to realize the Laverne Cox thread was bait to exploit the Featured system, so I just started bumping other threads. Does this make me the least autistic member of the forum, or the most autistic?


You're the forum's true hero

and cwc chosen sweetheart


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## Sanic (Jun 7, 2015)

Is everything a shitpost thread now?  It's starting to get a bit crazy.


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## Luna (Jun 7, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Is everything a shitpost thread now?  It's starting to get a bit crazy.


Only the shitty threads.

 So yes.


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## creamyfanta (Jun 7, 2015)

PeteyCoffee said:


> But the people who do think it's a riot.


The shit posting in the original thread had some of my favorite posts ive read here in a long time


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## DuskEngine (Jun 8, 2015)

Raroo said:


> They talk about how Nick Bate deserves to get butt fucked to death, or how Chris needs to go to prison for 20 years for using pepper spray, or how Vade needs to cut herself/himself/itself/whofuckingcaresself too deep during a self harm episode



Those posts are also shit. Every post that describes some tryhard revenge fantasy is one less post that's actually _funny.
_
Every post that draws the board further into gender politics shit is one less post that's good.

If the end goal here was to be an asshole instead of mocking the cows in a way that was amusing, we might as well just get Catherine to convince Chris to shove another medallion up his ass and call it a day.


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## ln18 (Jun 8, 2015)

DawnMachine said:


> Those posts are also shit. Every post that describes some tryhard revenge fantasy is one less post that's actually _funny.
> _
> Every post that draws the board further into gender politics shit is one less post that's good.
> 
> If the end goal here was to be an asshole instead of mocking the cows in a way that was amusing, we might as well just get Catherine to convince Chris to shove another medallion up his ass and call it a day.



Being a relative newcomer, the Cox thread really kind of opened my mind to the realization that not everyone has the same idea of what's going on here, what should be going on here, what this is for, what it's not for. Couldn't believe there were these heartfelt pleas to persuade on issues when it's like.... so so so far from the point.

Also, fucking brilliant thread. I didn't get it until it brought out the crying.


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## Count groudon (Jun 8, 2015)

When I saw the Laverne Cox article I giggled at her last name. Thats about the extent of how much I cared about the matter.


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## I AM STRAIGHT!!!! (Jun 8, 2015)

The worst part about all of this is that introman is supposed to be the Corey Matthews of the kiwi forums



Spoiler: Corey Matthews really isn't like that at all


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## Pikimon (Jun 8, 2015)

I'm just glad everyone liked the pictures of the pretty flowers I posted up. We should all start gardening. Like right now.


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