# Do we as a nation still dwell too much on 9/11?



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 11, 2019)

9/11 was an absolutely tragic event, nobody's denying it that's worth listening to. But it feels like 18 years later we still haven't really moved on from it and it's still being used to justify our foreign policy and a whole bunch of other bullshit from the TSA to the NSA. I get that it was an awful thing, and Omar probably shouldn't have said what she said, but if somebody described, say, the Las Vegas shooting as "a guy did something" would anybody freak out?

I'm just saying that an event from 18 years ago shouldn't still define the country, but I'll admit that I was in grade school when it happened and have never been to New York, so I don't bear the full brunt of it.

edit: obviously this was a post by Amerifags for Amerifags, but I'd still be interested in seeing outsiders' perspectives


----------



## eldri (Apr 11, 2019)

Do jews dwell too much on the holocaust?


----------



## JB 236 (Apr 11, 2019)

No, we do not give a fuck about 9/11 in this nation


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 11, 2019)

eldri said:


> Do jews dwell too much on the holocaust?


When they use it as a cudgel to avoid any criticism for Israel, yeah, they do

I don't think I've heard any of the Jews I actually know ever mention the Holocaust outside of a classroom setting.


----------



## eldri (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> When they use it as a cudgel to avoid any criticism for Israel, yeah, they do


You forget that the liberal jewish diaspora use it to discredit political opponents, specifically with the word nazi.

But, to answer your question, the people have moved on and the government has moved on. 9/11 is more or less used as a tool. The users of said tool only care that it gets them what they want.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 11, 2019)

eldri said:


> You forget that the liberal jewish diaspora use it to discredit political opponents, specifically with the word nazi.


And conservatives use 9/11 to ree every time a Muslim looks at them cross-eyed, what's your point?

Also for fuck's sake can we have one thread in Deep Thoughts that doesn't turn into bitching about the Jews?


----------



## eldri (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> And conservatives use 9/11 to ree every time a Muslim looks at them cross-eyed, what's your point?


Nothing really. My first post was akin to the saying "Does a bear shit in the woods?"


----------



## KeyserBroze (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> edit: obviously this was a post by Amerifags for Amerifags, but I'd still be interested in seeing outsiders' perspectives




I think the over-simplified answer is that for several generations of Americans 9/11 was for lack of a better term, a wake up call, they weren't alone in this as the last generation in Europe to be decisively attacked in such a manner have all but passed away.

It's testament to the average quality of life in America that for many their introduction to geopolitics was 9/11. Prior to that, due to the size and variety of climates available in the US, most Americans did not travel outside of the US and it's why today only 47% of Americans hold a passport.

Off topic, i think theres something lost here as whilst travel does broaden the mind traveling within one's own borders tends to reinforce it. Credit where it's due in the last decade the number of Americans with passports has almost doubled, although i suspect a disproportionate amount of which are from those who were in the Teen age range during 9/11 .


----------



## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Apr 11, 2019)

9/11 was used as a justification to push through some of the worst legislation possible.
People should be dwelling on that.


----------



## Jeanne d'Arc (Apr 11, 2019)

It hurt New York, bad.

The Twin Towers were iconic, and they were just taken down in an instant by a radical group for ideological purposes. The Twin Towers could definitely be seen as a symbol of commerce and prosperity and capitalism and what have you, but they were also where thousands of people who wanted fuck-all to do with anything ideological just made their livings, and for them to have their lives snatched away like that.. it is unfair and cruel.

But do I think it dictate policy 18 years later? No. It should be a reminder that even titans/superpowers can be vulnerable. We should've used 9/11 not as an excuse to retaliate (although Osama Bin Laden can suck horsecock in hell), but to think through policy BETTER and stop making dumb decisions on certain fronts. 9/11 was the end product of years of conflict (we technically trained Bin Laden), and few people seem to realize that.

We need to remind people like Illhan Omar that it's insensitive to dismiss it as "some people did a thing" (it was a very, very calculated thing at best lmfao), but we need to be reasonable and look at it for what it was.


----------



## Piss Clam (Apr 11, 2019)

I think we have killed enough muslims and had them kill each other to avenge 9/11 many times over.

Of course 9/11 wasn't even the start of this and it will be a long time before muslims stop killing each other and other people.


----------



## Rumpled Foreskin (Apr 11, 2019)

The Vietnam War was wrong.


----------



## Kamov Ka-52 (Apr 11, 2019)

I've heard people talk about it _maybe _a handful of times over the last ten years or so. I'd argue that 9/11 has basically become a historical footnote to the Bush presidency and, more specfically, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Those two wars and the subsequent ripple effect from them on the regional balance of power has had far, far greater implications for American domestic and foreign policy than 9/11 itself did.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Apr 11, 2019)

Not really. 9/11 is rarely brought up outside of the occasional people still dwelling on "conspiracy"/"Theories." of the event. Outside of that I don't see people really bringing it up. Years ago, sure. Now. Not really.


----------



## SmileyTimeDayCare (Apr 11, 2019)

As a nation probably not but there are definitely a lot of people who dwell on 9/11. I lived in NY for a long time and watched 1 WTC be constructed but I don't dwell on it. I lament the legislation and wars that resulted from it but that's about it.

That said the real offense committed by Omar as far as I'm concerned is that she tried to whitewash the attack. It wasn't some _lone wolf_ in a van of peace or disturbed mass shooter(We ever going to get to know what you found FBI...). It was a bunch of well funded muslims who essentially bombed us. Coming from anyone else I might have a different take but Omar has been transparent about what she is and I believe she's been given enough slack. She knew what she was doing and she should hang by her words.

Also a more apt example might be a Japanese-American politician referring to Pearl Harbor as _some people did something_ but it only works if Japan was still an empire randomly attacking other countries.


----------



## Gustav Schuchardt (Apr 11, 2019)

I think with any tragedy it's important we all come together over what They did to us and how we'll stop Them from doing it again.


----------



## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Apr 11, 2019)

Rumpled Foreskin said:


> The Vietnam War was wrong.


The way it was described to the public was to prevent the spread of communism.
Sounded good enough.


----------



## pomme (Apr 11, 2019)

Maybe I'll sound like an amerimutt bootlicker by saying this, but I think that Americans have every right to still be enraged by it and by all means should _still _be enraged. 18 years isn't a long time and 3000 deaths on your own turf shouldn't be so easily forgotten. If something like that happened so recently in my own country I don't think I could ever forget. 

That being said, 9/11 jokes are still funny and Americans are far too passive about how it was used as a justification to stifle civil liberties. I think people in general are too quick to forget in a sort of "out of sight out of mind" kind of way.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 11, 2019)

Sword Fighter Super said:


> The way it was described to the public was to prevent the spread of communism.
> Sounded good enough.


The public should've realized it doesn't fucking matter if Vietnam is communist or not (especially because it's not like South Vietnam was some bastion of freedom)


----------



## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> The public should've realized it doesn't fucking matter if Vietnam is communist or not (especially because it's not like South Vietnam was some bastion of freedom)


Well, to be fair the public isn't always the smartest group of people.  They're the same people who still watch broadcast TV today.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Apr 11, 2019)

pomme said:


> Maybe I'll sound like an amerimutt bootlicker by saying this, but I think that Americans have every right to still be enraged by it and by all means should _still _be enraged. 18 years isn't a long time and 3000 deaths on your own turf shouldn't be so easily forgotten. If something like that happened so recently in my own country I don't think I could ever forget.
> 
> That being said, 9/11 jokes are still funny and Americans are far too passive about how it was used as a justification to stifle civil liberties. I think people in general are too quick to forget in a sort of "out of sight out of mind" kind of way.



These days especially in America most people have the attention span of goldfish, so it's not too surprising how quickly everything falls into the memory hole.


----------



## Ghost of Wesley Willis (Apr 11, 2019)

The only ones who still obsessively dwell on 9/11 are baby boomers or basic vanilla republican gen-Xers/Millennials that watch Ben Shapiro and/or Steven Crowder.


----------



## Gustav Schuchardt (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> The public should've realized it doesn't fucking matter if Vietnam is communist or not (especially because it's not like South Vietnam was some bastion of freedom)



North Vietnam was far worse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Huế

Many more people killed than at My Lai and in the case of Hueh the killing was done by government death squads with a list of names approved by the regime and ideologically inspired by Lenin's Hanging Order.

That was the reason the 'Boat People' left Vietnam after the commies took over. South Vietnam was a somewhat chaotic authoritarian regime but if you stayed out of politics the government was probably too incompetent to take much notice of you. North Vietnam was a full on totalitarian regime that might decide your class or ethnic group needed to go for the greater good of the revolution. It also had a Leninist tactic of murdering anyone it thought might oppose it in new territory it captured. Which is what happened an Hueh and presumably what the Boat People were sufficiently scared off that leaving in a crappy boat seemed like a better bet. 

And to top it all off even if you didn't get murdered when the regime captured your village and didn't die in a reeducation camp the delightful communist regime might mark you down for shitty jobs for life because one of your relatives had a job with the old government. 

If you look at Asia now it's pretty striking that the places the US defended - South Korea and Taiwan - are pretty free and increasingly rich. And the places the US let the commies grab are not free and and most of the people living there do so in pretty grim poverty. Sure you can argue that in China the Commies abandoned Maoism and the country is developing. But it's a very uneven kind of development. People connected to the regime can become very rich but the average GDP per capita is still many times lower than in Taiwan. Taiwan also didn't go through the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap forward. It's hard to give the commies in China credit for the post Deng development when they'd wrecked the economy and killed millions under Mao's rule. And even if China does end up rich, there's no real sign it will ever be free. Or give up on it's long stated and bonkers claim that it should rule Taiwan or big chunks of territory currently run by some other, and frankly far better government like the Senkaku/ Diaoyutai islands. All the signs are the CCP will use the wealth of China to take back those territories with absolutely disastrous consequences. 

Jean J Kirkpatrick put the the difference between authoritarian and totalitarian regimes thus

https://archive.md/os6uw
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/dictatorships-double-standards/



> The former deputy chairman of Vietnam’s National Assembly from 1976 to his defection early in August 1979, Hoang Van Hoan, described recently the impact of Vietnam’s ongoing revolution on that country’s more than one million Chinese inhabitants:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The US wasn't wrong to try to stop North Vietnam invading South Vietnam. 

Look at her list 'At the moment there is a far greater likelihood of progressive liberalization and democratization in the governments of Brazil, Argentina, and Chile than in the government of Cuba; in Taiwan than in the People’s Republic of China; in South Korea than in North Korea; in Zaire than in Angola; and so forth."

Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Taiwan and South Korea are all democracies now. Cuba, the PRC and North Korea are all totalitarian hellholes. Both the DRC, the successor to Zaire and Angola are classified as 'Not Free'. Still her prediction worked pretty well elsewhere. And she made it in 1979.


----------



## crocodilian (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> And conservatives use 9/11 to ree every time a Muslim looks at them cross-eyed, what's your point?
> 
> Also for fuck's sake can we have one thread in Deep Thoughts that doesn't turn into bitching about the Jews?



If anyone references a historical tragedy too frequently and for blatant political or personal gain, it's Jews and the Holocaust. And unlike 9/11 I'm not even sure that shit really happened.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 11, 2019)

crocodilian said:


> If anyone references a historical tragedy too frequently and for blatant political or personal gain, it's Jews and the Holocaust. And unlike 9/11 I'm not even sure that shit really happened.


Whatever, just sperg about it in one of the thousands of threads dedicated to bitching about Jews


----------



## crocodilian (Apr 11, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> Whatever, just sperg about it in one of the thousands of threads dedicated to bitching about Jews



Make me, faggot.

But to be on topic: I rarely see 9/11 referenced anywhere anymore. The actual rubble has been paved over and built on, television and radio stations no longer seem to hold memorials on the annual date, it's seldom referenced in politics and the only mention of it I see online is asking whether or not Israel did it and/or photos of Hulk Hogan actually doing it.


----------



## ColtWalker1847 (Apr 11, 2019)

Annie said:


> (we technically trained Bin Laden), and few people seem to realize that.


No "we" technically didn't. Few people seem to realize it because it isn't true. Just because he was a muj (and I use that term loosely) does not mean he was US trained or supported. In fact, the US didn't train any of the muj. The ISI and Pakistani Army did.

The deal was that the US and Saudi Arabia provided the money and weapons to the mujaheddin. The Pakistanis provided the training and distributed the US supplied money/weapons/ammo/donkeys because they were using NWFP as a safe haven. It is also why once the Soviets left the ISI's favorite group, the Taliban, became kings of shit mountain.

Now, Bin Laden was independently wealthy and funded his own operation that used the Soviet-Afghan War as a recruiting tool. During the war he had very little to do with the US or the Saudis which he loathed. He did have ties to Pakistan though, obviously.

If you want to blame anyone blame Pakistan, the ISI, and Hamid Gul.


----------



## queue-anon (Apr 11, 2019)

It seems like most Americans don't really care anymore, and I'm grateful for that. My everyday/run-of-the-mill American family members were obsessed for years, which grated on my nerves since I actually was living in New York at the time. They were on the opposite side of the country. Some of them wanted to make 9/11 a national holiday, and I was adamantly against it. A national tragedy should not be a federal holiday. Save that for honoring people (such as veterans and important leaders) and important, nontragic events in our national history. Dedicating a day to a tragedy means an annual pity party.



KeyserBroze said:


> As someone who isn't an Amerifag (add to dictionary ), feel free to correct me:
> 
> I think the simplified answer is that for several generations of Americans 9/11 was for lack of a better term, a wake up call, they weren't alone in this as the last generation in Europe to be decisively attacked in such a manner have all but passed away.
> 
> ...



In addition to generational differences, more Americans likely have passports because you now need them to travel to Mexico and Canada.


----------



## Piss Clam (Apr 11, 2019)

ColtWalker1847 said:


> No "we" technically didn't. Few people seem to realize it because it isn't true. Just because he was a muj (and I use that term loosely) does not mean he was US trained or supported. In fact, the US didn't train any of the muj. The ISI and Pakistani Army did.
> 
> The deal was that the US and Saudi Arabia provided the money and weapons to the mujaheddin. The Pakistanis provided the training and distributed the US supplied money/weapons/ammo/donkeys because they were using NWFP as a safe haven. It is also why once the Soviets left the ISI's favorite group, the Taliban, became kings of shit mountain.
> 
> ...



There were instances of afghan mujaheddin killing Arab foreign fighters because of the Arabs strict interpretation of Islam which pissed them off due to tribal customs.

You are also spot on. I wish more people actually knew the history of the soviet afghan war.


----------



## nonvir_1984 (Apr 11, 2019)

In my convos with seppos, I find they are more wound up with the American revolution in what was it, 1776. Now, if they had just behaved themselves and acted like adults and not petulant children, they could have still been part of the UK and be enjoying BREXIT now. See what you are missing?
9/11 was a blip for most folks; but holy shit, it was a pay day many times over for arms manufacturers and just the excuse a bunch of totalitarians round the world needed to create a global surveillance state. 
And yes, my best friends are American.


----------



## ColtWalker1847 (Apr 11, 2019)

Piss Clam said:


> There were instances of afghan mujaheddin killing Arab foreign fighters because of the Arabs strict interpretation of Islam which pissed them off due to tribal customs.
> 
> You are also spot on. I wish more people actually knew the history of the soviet afghan war.


Just read Charlie Wilson's War. It does a good enough job explaining it.

It is the dumb conspiracy theory that just won't die and has been championed by morons since at least the USS Cole bombing. Some people just want to believe that they US created Bin Laden and it is usually more trouble than it's worth to talk them out of it because they are usually conspiratards.


----------



## Shibaru (Apr 11, 2019)

only thing about 9/11 i deeply think about now are the people that were trapped in the mall below the towers, It's quite terrifying to think that someone died trapped in a RadioShack or an Express and not be discovered until the next year.


----------



## cuddle striker (Apr 11, 2019)

the only time I've heard it really discussed seriously is when I'm working in NYC. so... yeah it's the wars and shitty laws passed right after it that are still a real topic.


----------



## Red Hood (Apr 11, 2019)

We'll start to forgive it when they create tue equivalent to a Godzilla movie or a Porsche 356, which is when we forgave Japanland and Krautistan, respectively.


----------



## Tookie (Apr 11, 2019)

KeyserBroze said:


> Credit where it's due in the last decade the number of Americans with passports has almost doubled, although i suspect a disproportionate amount of which are from those who were in the Teen age range during 9/11 .


The reason they doubled is mostly because of stricter ID requirements that kicked in around 10 years ago. Americans used to be able to get away with visiting Canada and Mexico without a passport. I think most Caribbean countries didn't require them either if you were entering by sea.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 11, 2019)

SkeletonBias420 said:


> The reason they doubled is mostly because of stricter ID requirements that kicked in around 10 years ago. Americans used to be able to get away with visiting Canada and Mexico over land crossings without a passport. I think most Caribbean countries didn't require them either if you were entering by sea.


Wish it was still like that. No real reason for the US and Canada not to have a schengen-type arrangement tbh


----------



## Rev (Apr 11, 2019)

Theory 1:
well some people believe the Iraq war was just an excuse to drill for oil and 9/11 was a convenient excuse to go to war
If that where true, the media would wanna over hype it to make American citizens believe 9/11 was the only reason to go to war and oil played no part. The news would probably ignore other issues because Americans tend to think domestic problems are the only ones worth caring about anyway.
They would also probably create a holiday of it to remind the people every year in the name of patriotism 

Theory 2:


Spoiler: Or maybe they had something to do with it


----------



## millais (Apr 11, 2019)

People used to wear those ?-shaped remembrance ribbons to mark the date, but I haven't seen those in a long time outside of the occasional faded bumper sticker version that 9 times out of 10 says "support the troops" rather than "remember September 11".


----------



## SigSauer (Apr 12, 2019)




----------



## Clop (Apr 12, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> obviously this was a post by Amerifags for Amerifags, but I'd still be interested in seeing outsiders' perspectives


The Twin Towers had a lot of people from around the world, it was a tragedy for everyone with a hint of empathy. I don't blow a casket at people giving respects, but be fair, the people who mostly keep talking about it have zero respect and are only trying to sell their own idea on the backs of corpses.

"Some people did something" is how Japan tried to spin the sacking of Nanjing, China had every right to be offended of that as well.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Apr 12, 2019)

9/11 was at the very start where I started to understand how propaganda works.

I used to work in film & theatre, and a lot of projects are funded by grants. You learn inductively over time, what you should put in a request to have a good chance of being greenlighted for a grant.

And of course, you share these tips with people you trust and like.

During an international project, while we were waiting on set, we talked to see if europe is different from US. They were sure: the best way to get greenlit, is if you say it takes place in a "post-9/11 world". One film that clearly got granted on that is shortbus.

In Europe the surest way was and is to have a multicultural theme or lgbtq theme. Persian Hamlet. Raceflipped Othello. Genderflipped taming of the shrew. All female romea & julliette. Yes, I've worked on each of these.

I got to to thinking at one point when a director cynically said he wanted to do the hamlet, but made it persian to get it greenlit. Nobody is telling him he has to make it persian. But he learned over time the requirements of being greenlit. People that did not bend, simply had to fund everything themselves and then try to compete with those that get all costs covered funding.

It got me to understand how many makers like journalists or academics are unaware of being used for propaganda. If they were the wrong type, they would have been filtered out.

I don't think people could really dwell too much on historic events. There's a lot we can learn from them. But don't be lazy and try to contend with each of the different views of a subject and try to use primary sources. Certainly, the official story of 9/11 doesn't look like it could be accurate.


----------



## Slappy McGherkin (Apr 12, 2019)

I haven't forgotten, but then again, I'm of that older generation mentioned a time or two in this thread. I put my flag out on 9/11. I also do on Dec. 7, 4th of July, Flag Day, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, etc. I take a moment to reflect on what happened and why it means something, even today, as well as paying respect to those who paid the ultimate price. 

The attitude of dear little Somali Congress twat of "Some people did something" offends me deeply and personally and should be an affront to all Americans, but time has indeed passed and certain segments of the population couldn't give a fuck about it one way or the other. I find that sad. 

As far as the Jews -- As a kid growing up, I was the neighborhood paper boy. I knew several Jewish men and women that had numbers tattooed on their arms. They were the lucky ones, they survived. 

If any of this makes me an Amerifag, so be it.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Apr 12, 2019)

Generally, not really, we don't have mandated moments of silence over it or anything. It was and is used as an excuse for the government to grab any authority it could get its grubby little hands on, of course.

But since we see the mainstream response to a muslim woman with known sympathies to people who join isis trying to downplay it is about a 30/70 outrage to outrage at the outraged ratio.

So the fact that we are more likely to yell "Not all muslims" over "Remember 9/11" as a nation tells me, no, we don't dwell on it too much.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Apr 12, 2019)

I'm not asking if you think it that 9/11 was two holographs going into buildings that never existed in the first place....

but are there people who genuinely believe that the official story is 100% accurate?


----------



## ConfederateIrishman (Apr 12, 2019)

I get the impression that America never really recovered from 9/11
In the long term it seems that for better or worse Terrorism works: sure the US wins these wars directly caused by it but does it ever win the peace afterwards?


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 12, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> I'm not asking if you think it that 9/11 was two holographs going into buildings that never existed in the first place....
> 
> but are there people who genuinely believe that the official story is 100% accurate?


I doubt we'll ever know the full story.

Basically, do I believe the government knew something was up, could've taken steps to prevent it, and capitalized on it in the worst way possible? Absolutely. Do I believe they knew specifically that commercial airliners were gonna slam into the Twin Towers on the morning of 9/11/01? No.


----------



## nonvir_1984 (Apr 12, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> I doubt we'll ever know the full story.
> 
> Basically, do I believe the government knew something was up, could've taken steps to prevent it, and capitalized on it in the worst way possible? Absolutely. Do I believe they knew specifically that commercial airliners were gonna slam into the Twin Towers on the morning of 9/11/01? No.


You are right - the various commission reports found that and released documents. 
= There was a memo saying that bin liner wanted to attack the US using planes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US); 
= There was the FBI memo from its Phoenix office - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Memo; https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-sep-25-na-intel25-story.html
= Other reports of men of middle eastern appearance hanging round flying schools: https://publicintegrity.org/federal...ed-to-share-intelligence-on-9-11-terrorists/; https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-was-warned-about-flight-schools/ 
= I think his name was Moussoui or something like that - who was arrested a few weeks before but the FBI supervisor would not give permission to seek a warrant to investigate his lap top. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui - see section: Capture; https://famous-trials.com/moussaoui/1816-preventable
That would have revealed heaps of stuff. 
The FBI shit came down to personalities - people not doing stuff because they hated other people. So, while they did not know anything specific, they had enough info that if they had acted like adults would have enabled them to find the fuckers and arrest them. 
And the Christchurch attack is showing the same thing - lots of clues ignored by clueless fuckers who think they are the absolute ducks guts when in fact they are a bunch of cretins.
Fuck!


----------



## Julias_Seizure (Apr 13, 2019)

Not denying that 9/11 was a tragedy or anything but the US killed a lot more innocent people nuking hiroshima and have no remorse for it but all of the sudden when its a bunch of innocent americans getting killed then all of the sudden mass murder becomes wrong.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Apr 13, 2019)

Julias_Seizure said:


> Not denying that 9/11 was a tragedy or anything but the US killed a lot more innocent people nuking hiroshima and have no remorse for it but all of the sudden when its a bunch of innocent americans getting killed then all of the sudden mass murder becomes wrong.


The problem I have with this equivalency is Hiroshima was a war conflict which means if the battles over in Japan hadn't stopped there have been estimate after estimate there would have been more combatants and innocence killed than if we used the nuke. Doesn't make it the greatest thing ever but this is different from  terrorist just randomly killing innocence because they could. Also it's pretty untrue that some in the US (including the government) didn't have remorse,  but you also have to take into account the innocence that were killed were not directly part of the same government that enacted the nuke in Hiroshima as well.


----------



## DDBCAE CBAADCBE (Apr 13, 2019)

I was a little kid when 9/11 happened. I remember there was this curly haired red head with a chubby face and glasses. I didn't like him much because he was a massive asshole. Anyways his grandma apparently was in one of the towers when they collapsed. I recall feeling no sympathy for him. He stole my flip head power ranger toy like a few days later. Fucking douche.


----------



## Julias_Seizure (Apr 13, 2019)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> The problem I have with this equivalency is Hiroshima was a war conflict which means if the battles over in Japan hadn't stopped there have been estimate after estimate there would have been more combatants and innocence killed than if we used the nuke. Doesn't make it the greatest thing ever but this is different from  terrorist just randomly killing innocence because they could. Also it's pretty untrue that some in the US (including the government) didn't have remorse,  but you also have to take into account the innocence that were killed were not directly part of the same government that enacted the nuke in Hiroshima as well.


Fair point that more people would have died if they hadnt dropped the nuke so yeah it was necessary but in the terrorists minds 9/11 was probably considered necessary too. May have been a slight exxageration to say they had 0 remorse for it but theyll use the justification that they had to do it but then when the nazis use the "was just following orders" justification that one isnt considered valid despite the fact theyd have been executed for not following orders. Not trying to defend the nazis here just saying the US have done awful things too and only seem to care about the tragedies that happen to them


----------



## byuu (Apr 13, 2019)

Julias_Seizure said:


> Not trying to defend the nazis here just saying the US have done awful things too and only seem to care about the tragedies that happen to them


Nothing wrong with destroying whole cities with firebombing and nukes.
But Pearl Harbour was the worst attack in all of WW2.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Apr 13, 2019)

garakfan69 said:


> But Pearl Harbour was the worst attack in all of WW2.


If you really wanna see something go look at all the stuff about Pearl Harbor being a False-flag.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Apr 13, 2019)

_



_
I have only three questions for those that believe the official version of events of the 9/11 attacks.


How did building 7 collapse?
Why did the BBC report it as collapsed before it had?
Why did owner Larry Silverstein say they decided to pull it down in an interview?

For those that are not aware, building 7 was the third building to collapse and wasn't hit by a plane.


----------



## Ambidextype (Apr 13, 2019)

If the media reported the story with full transparency instead of omitting some sensitive information, I don't think US citizens would have dwelled on that event even to this day. Incidentally, the government and media keep fucking shit up still like what happened with Vegas massacre where there are multiple witnesses and media trying hard to bury those. I don't blame people that keep bringing those tragedies. They are never properly explained and how they could have been avoided.


----------



## Mewtwo_Rain (Apr 13, 2019)

Julias_Seizure said:


> Fair point that more people would have died if they hadnt dropped the nuke so yeah it was necessary but in the terrorists minds 9/11 was probably considered necessary too. May have been a slight exxageration to say they had 0 remorse for it but theyll use the justification that they had to do it but then when the nazis use the "was just following orders" justification that one isnt considered valid despite the fact theyd have been executed for not following orders. Not trying to defend the nazis here just saying the US have done awful things too and only seem to care about the tragedies that happen to them


To be fair again, it's more the US government. The governments of all nations are filled with nutjobs and psychopaths.  To the point our own government has used US citizens (innocence) for test experiments of radiation spreading, injecting with STD's purposely and more.  It's one of the reasons although I'm not right wing specifically I do not like large governments. There is no accountability and it leads to much more awful things going on behind the scenes.

But you have to kind of separate the government from innocence when explaining these events. The reason is they are not the same group of people and will obviously care more about their innocence as part of that in-group and weren't directly responsible for what the psychopaths in government chose to do.

IE: If a Chinese man rapes a Japanese woman because of historical grievance from the government. It's not really going to achieve revenge against the correct target, as the innocent woman in this case was not part of the initial event, and the innocent woman and more like her would have full right to be upset that they were targeted and weren't complacent with said historical event that originally occurred in a similar manner. They're then going to care more about their in-group than being sympathetic to the out-groups historical grievance because they're not related.


----------



## Kalishnakov (Apr 13, 2019)

Julias_Seizure said:


> Fair point that more people would have died if they hadnt dropped the nuke so yeah it was necessary but in the terrorists minds 9/11 was probably considered necessary too. May have been a slight exxageration to say they had 0 remorse for it but theyll use the justification that they had to do it but then when the nazis use the "was just following orders" justification that one isnt considered valid despite the fact theyd have been executed for not following orders. Not trying to defend the nazis here just saying the US have done awful things too and only seem to care about the tragedies that happen to them


Where  Islam is concerned, it is not a 'war' the West can win, because for some strange reason, the laws have been set up to muzzle and demonize their own people.
Was 9/11 a set up?
If it was, we'll never know, but if it wasn't, the powers that be certainly turned it to their advantage.


----------



## Normal_Guy (Apr 13, 2019)

Thats right Americans move on and forgive and forget, be more forward "progressive" its not like some radicals that fucking hate you'll destroyed a couple of towers killing hundreds of Americans in the process. I'm not American but id always  viewed America in a high standard don't fuck it.....plz.


----------



## AsbestosFlaygon (Apr 13, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> I have only three questions for those that believe the official version of events of the 9/11 attacks.
> 
> 
> How did building 7 collapse?
> ...


For question one this video explains it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LUDXpMhkNk

To summarize, what happened was that debris from the North Tower set it on fire and damaged the source of the sprinkler system. The firefighters underestimating the fire thought it was best to prioritize resources elsewhere which meant the fire was mostly unopposed. This on top of the length of time and Tube-frame construction of the building made it collapse.

For your other questions I'll use this video, while it has stupid background music and is very low production quality, explains it well enough. Although on a brief side note I'd certainly appreciate if anyone can link to alternative videos for either of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZNn0XcQNtk&feature=youtu.be&t=427
(I've skipped the beginning of point three as the relevant info is the same as the video I linked earlier, and in fact mentions and links that same video. Otherwise it's just him bashing 9/11 conspiracy theorists, which is irrelevant to this discussion.)

I'll summarize question three first since it's directly related to question one. The pull it comment is referring to a call he and the New York City Fire Department had where they decided to evacuate the area as they felt they wouldn't be able to contain the fire and it was just putting lives in danger should the building collapse.

Finally question two, what most likely happened was that the BBC heard the evacuation call that was being made due to Building 7 showing signs it was going to collapse soon. But somewhere down the pipeline it misinterpreted it as a message that Building 7 had already collapsed.

Hope that explains your question, if not hope you found it informative at least, and if neither all I ask is that you don't punch me in the face, and that you have a good day.


----------



## TaterBot (Apr 13, 2019)

Forget Pearl Harbor, forget Hitler, forget 9/11.
But slavery...REEEEE forever and a day.


----------



## Tasty Tatty (Apr 13, 2019)

My perspective as a foreigner is that no. Any country has the right to mourn any tragic event as long as they want, especially those who were directly involved. But, a discussion I've had with many other people (also not Americans) is that, despite this is probably the biggest tragedy in USA, sometimes it's treated like it was the worst tragedy in the world despite many countries have had it worst (relatively speaking) and they've already moved on.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Apr 14, 2019)

AsbestosFlaygon said:


> For your other questions I'll use this video, while it has stupid background music and is very low production quality, explains it well enough. Although on a brief side note I'd certainly appreciate if anyone can link to alternative videos for either of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZNn0XcQNtk&feature=youtu.be&t=427
> (I've skipped the beginning of point three as the relevant info is the same as the video I linked earlier, and in fact mentions and links that same video. Otherwise it's just him bashing 9/11 conspiracy theorists, which is irrelevant to this discussion.)
> 
> I'll summarize question three first since it's directly related to question one. The pull it comment is referring to a call he and the New York City Fire Department had where they decided to evacuate the area as they felt they wouldn't be able to contain the fire and it was just putting lives in danger should the building collapse.
> ...



Oh, why would I be violent in disagreement over something? I think it's healthy to talk about something like this and sift through the debris. Only people that have something to hide would benefit from poisoning the well with high emotion. As the old saying goes, truth does not fear investigation.

So the two videos together and your post end up giving these answers:

A. Building 7 collapsed due to fire
B. When the BBC reported it as collapsed 30 minutes before it had, that was because someone had told them that it had
C. When Silverstein says "pull it" that refers to evacuating the building.


It is quite lucky for the BBC to get it right by accident, isn't it? And with this precogniscent scoop, I'm sure they'd be proud of it too, but they've pulled the original upload and they've never given a correction about it.

They -have- said that they lost the tape by accident.

This too they've since deleted:

http://archive.md/Q75gT
Perhaps they didn't like the first comment








Both Jane Standley the reporter and the BBC have said that they were given misinformation which resulted in this report. But it wasn't really misinformation was it? It was correct information ahead of time.

Perhaps the more important question is, what source would the BBC trust so much and be unwilling to name at the same time?

The BBC answer actually requires them to both really trust a source and take direction strongly, if looking out the window proves it false and to keep that source secret even decades later.

---

Larry Silverstein said: I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said: you know we have such a terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing is to pull it. And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.









						9/11-WTC7 Larry Silverstein says 'PULL IT' (INSIDE JOB)
					

On September 11th 2001 there were 'terrorist attacks in NYC and in Washington D.C. One 'plane' hit the Pentagon and two other ones hit WTC1 & 2...so why did ...




					www.youtube.com
				




I don't think it's reasonable to suggest "pull it" refers to evacuation.

Perhaps if it stood alone, you could brush it off as a very strange turn of phrase, but the fact that he also had by his own words a dermatologist appointment that day and he didn't go to the dermatologist appointment that day and both his children were late to meetings that day and that the exactly the buildings that collapsed were each owned by larry silverstein.

Here's where he first said it:






Honest question. Does that sound and look to you like the answer of an honest man?

I think the more likely explanations are that building 7 was intentionally pulled down and that silverstein had prior knowledge of the attack.


Ps. There are more things demonstrably false in the first video you shared and covered by peer reviewed published papers, but I don't want to make this response too long. If people are interested after they watched your first link, they can ask me for it.


----------

