# Healthy Sleep General



## Rusty Crab (Feb 12, 2021)

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For the past few weeks I've desperately been trying various 'self improvement' methods to deal with a noticeable decline in concentration and work performance I'm suffering from. The TL;DR of it all is that poor sleep seems to be the main factor contributing to it. The "obvious solution" would be "lmao just go to bed earlier bro", and that's true but it's easier said than done for most people. When you get tired, you have reduced judgement, so snappy and responsible decisions become harder to make.

I wanted to list some observations, quirks and oddities that I personally struggle with, and I wanted to know if others experienced these same things in the same way. The covid lockdowns over the past year have hit me hard, and I think elevated anxiety has certainly contributed to my screwed up schedule, but that's a much larger demon that I'm not sure I can fix.


As it gets later into the night, if I'm working or messing around online, there's a tendency to lose track of time much easier than in the middle of the day. Two or three hours can easily slip by and it feels like 30 minutes. It doesn't help that as I get tired, my judgement reduces so it's harder to 'check myself' even if I set a timer.


We're all familiar with going to bed earlier being more difficult due to your circadian rhythm, but I find there's an additional problem with me needing to fulfill a "ritual" of some sort before bed. For instance, no matter if I'm sticking with my schedule or not, if I don't talk to my friends before bed I find I have a much harder time sleeping. This further complicates the above point because if I get into a conversation, I don't just want to drop it, but at the same time that's when I'm in the 'danger zone' of hours flying by.


This is less 'sleep' related per-say, but I have fairly severe problems getting out of bed in the morning. If I have my phone by me, I dick around on my phone in a zombie like state with reduced judgement for an hour. If I don't have my phone by me, I sit there and contemplate getting out of bed for an hour in a zombie state but don't actually do it. If I put my alarm clock across the room, I get up in a zombie state, turn it off, then go back to bed in said zombie state. This is definitely some kind of willpower issue but it's like I'm still half dreaming and I'm not sure what to do beyond getting shocked with a taser.

Do you suffer from stuff like this? What stupid tricks have you done to overcome them, if you have? I'd prefer to *not* make this about chemical assistance such as melatonin or klonopin. I'd rather stick to methodical ways of fixing the issues if possible. However, if you did have to use a chemical to solve your sleep issues, that's worth a mention as well.


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## Massa's Little Buckie (Feb 12, 2021)

Smoke weed.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (Feb 12, 2021)

Trying and failing to stick to a rigid schedule of "go to sleep lmao" might increase your anxiety even more. Get yourself checked for sleep apnea even if you aren't a fat fuck. Stop "messing around online".

I have a dram of whisk(e)y on every weekday before going to sleep, if you count that as a chemical. Other sleep aids include having a decent bed, turning down heating a bit, and having jazz play while I sleep. However, you definitely seem to have a circadian rhythm issue.


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## Jonah Hill poster (Feb 12, 2021)

I always like to think that 7 to 8 hours of sleep for adults ages 25-64 was the ideal to at least remain stable and healthy. Sometimes, even 6 1/2 hours of sleep can be OK, as long as you don’t overload on sweets or have strong excessive exercise that can disrupt your sleep.


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## oldTireWater (Feb 12, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> if I don't talk to my friends before bed I find I have a much harder time sleeping.


I get the pre-bed ritual, but this sounds like one you need to try and change. If someone else is part of the "ritual", then you give up a lot of control.



Rusty Crab said:


> I dick around on my phone in a zombie like state with reduced judgement for an hour.


Good lord. What can I say? Have you considered NOT being a millennial?


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## Agarathium1066 (Feb 12, 2021)

Being able to get steady sleep was always a pretty difficult for me until I spoke to my doctor during a check-up. Getting a fairly gentle medication for it was a big help for me, another was using f.lux on my PC to hit me with less blue light towards the latter half of my "day" which has not only made my eyes feel notably better but I think has aided in it. I never take a phone to bed as I just don't care for smart phones, but I know it keeps you awake by keeping your brain engaged and your eyes strained.

Also strong seconding @Boris Blank's glass eye on both considering a check for sleep apnea and not getting too strict with sleep. Trying to make a huge change to your sleep schedule is like a hard-turn on a ship's wheel, you may change course but your body and mind will be reeling from it. Do your best to not get too tight with when you do or do not sleep, just try to be more mindful of when you are edging towards being tired. Even if it's just an hour or two earlier than before it's an improvement. Success on that will naturally vary due to level of broke-brain.


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## Rusty Crab (Feb 12, 2021)

oldTireWater said:


> I get the pre-bed ritual, but this sounds like one you need to try and change. If someone else is part of the "ritual", then you give up a lot of control.


I get that, though it's a challenge because these days I don't have any other free time to contact them. I can't just self isolate forever. Maybe reworking the afternoon schedule is in order, or trying to shift my schedule so that spending time with them doesn't eat into my sleep start time. I didn't want to do that, but unless I force them to change their schedules (not happening) I don't think I have much choice.



oldTireWater said:


> Good lord. What can I say? Have you considered NOT being a millennial?


Believe me, I'm not proud of it. However the phone itself seems to be less of a problem than just getting out of bed in general. 



Agarathium1066 said:


> Being able to get steady sleep was always a pretty difficult for me until I spoke to my doctor during a check-up. Getting a fairly gentle medication for it was a big help for me, another was using f.lux on my PC to hit me with less blue light towards the latter half of my "day" which has not only made my eyes feel notably better but I think has aided in it. I never take a phone to bed as I just don't care for smart phones, but I know it keeps you awake by keeping your brain engaged and your eyes strained.
> 
> Also strong seconding @Boris Blank's glass eye on both considering a check for sleep apnea and not getting too strict with sleep. Trying to make a huge change to your sleep schedule is like a hard-turn on a ship's wheel, you may change course but your body and mind will be reeling from it. Do your best to not get too tight with when you do or do not sleep, just try to be more mindful of when you are edging towards being tired. Even if it's just an hour or two earlier than before it's an improvement. Success on that will naturally vary due to level of broke-brain.


Already doing flux, and it does help. I'm spending less time with my phone now-days, though as I mentioned the problem is more just getting out of bed in general. I guess the phone is more of an "excuse"... if that makes sense.

I didn't think about an apnea check. I'm not fat, but I do snore (seems to be genetic) so I wonder if that's an indication of a problem.


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## Spasticus Autisticus (Feb 12, 2021)

I was (well, still am) having similar sleep problems, for most of my adult life in fact. A few years ago I went in for a sleep study. The study definitively ruled out apnea, which I highly doubted was the problem anyway. The doctor diagnosed me with "delayed sleep phase disorder" which basically has no treatment other than melatonin to get my circadian clock temporarily back in order, which does work fairly well. Working from home has actually been a benefit to this as I can pretty much just wake up half an hour before my first meeting of the day, instead of having to account for 45 minutes to an hour for the commute.

f.lux/redshift is definitely a good thing to add. I bought some Gunnar glasses with the full amber tint which also seems to help. Some have recommended alcohol but I've found it often has the opposite effect on me.


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## Rusty Crab (Feb 12, 2021)

Spasticus Autisticus said:


> Some have recommended alcohol but I've found it often has the opposite effect on me.


Alcohol has horrible effects on me for sleep. What happens is I go to sleep quickly, but then I wake up a few hours later and stay up for the rest of the night. What's worse is that for the next few nights, I can't sleep at all unless I drink. This problem is so severe that I haven't had a drop of alcohol since I turned 21. It's a genuinely awful experience.


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (Feb 13, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> I didn't think about an apnea check. I'm not fat, but I do snore (seems to be genetic) so I wonder if that's an indication of a problem.


People mainly associate sleep apnea with being fat, and that's indeed a risk factor. However, there are other risk factors with obstructive sleep apnea - smoking, allergic rhinitis (hay fever), and genetic predisposition - since it's essentially a blockage of the upper airways. Yes, half a ton of fat definitely restricts your windpipe, but so could floppy soft palate tissue, inflamed tonsils, or even your tongue.
Then there's central sleep apnea, which is more of a central nervous system condition.


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## Mnutu (Feb 13, 2021)

I often find my rhythm shifts pretty regularly, I have a night owl tendency which interferes with any reasonable work schedule. Best trick I’ve found is to workout if I’m jittery about an hour or two before sleep. You’ll wake up for awhile, then the fatigue sets in and knocks you out. Failing that, lights off and closing your eyes and forcing yourself to sleep is the other alternative.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Feb 17, 2021)

Things that have helped me:


Melatonin
Kirkland Sleep Aid (not technically supposed to take it long term, but my doctor says low dose is okay, check with yours)
Weighted blanket
Flonase
Minor surgery to clear a bunch of excess scar tissue out of my nose (this helped the most)


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## Rusty Crab (Feb 17, 2021)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Things that have helped me:
> 
> 
> Melatonin
> ...


The weighted blanket is the easiest thing to try there. I have one gathering dust


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## Rusty Crab (Feb 20, 2021)

I've been trying some different stuff lately and I seem to have rolled back my sleep schedule pretty well. However, I think I'm waking up too soon. I know I function optimally at 8 hours but my body refuses to sleep past 7 and I don't feel completely rested when waking up. There are times when I have slept for 8 and I felt fine. I've blacked out my windows completely so light is not an issue.

Any tips for staying alseep for that full 8?


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## Ciscoipphone (Feb 22, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> I've been trying some different stuff lately and I seem to have rolled back my sleep schedule pretty well. However, I think I'm waking up too soon. I know I function optimally at 8 hours but my body refuses to sleep past 7 and I don't feel completely rested when waking up. There are times when I have slept for 8 and I felt fine. I've blacked out my windows completely so light is not an issue.
> 
> Any tips for staying alseep for that full 8?


that might just be your normal circadian rythm. Some people just need less sleep. For example


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## Rusty Crab (Feb 22, 2021)

Ciscoipphone said:


> that might just be your normal circadian rythm. Some people just need less sleep. For example
> 
> View attachment 1942484


That's cool and all but it reminds me of people saying "You don't need to finish college to get a good job because Bill Gates". I pay close attention to my body and there is a stark difference between me getting 6 and a full 8 hours. I do take mid day naps some time and they do help, but they also fairly disruptive to my work availability.


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## Fliddaroonie (Mar 8, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> View attachment 1916354
> 
> For the past few weeks I've desperately been trying various 'self improvement' methods to deal with a noticeable decline in concentration and work performance I'm suffering from. The TL;DR of it all is that poor sleep seems to be the main factor contributing to it. The "obvious solution" would be "lmao just go to bed earlier bro", and that's true but it's easier said than done for most people. When you get tired, you have reduced judgement, so snappy and responsible decisions become harder to make.
> 
> ...


Re getting up, buy an alarm clock and put it away from your bed.

And do  not ever use the snooze button. It does  not work. Get out of bed as soon as your alarm goes off.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Mar 8, 2021)

Close your eyes and focus on your breathing. Focus on each limb and then relax them one by one. Take all of them and simply sink. You might feel a jolt as you get into the abyss. That's normal and means it's working.  You should also use this website.


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## Fentanyl Floyd (Mar 18, 2021)

Anyone ever done 48 hour days, like Saint Terrence Andrew Davis?


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## TVStactic (Mar 21, 2021)

chiming in for my sperging.

OP, have you checked yourself in the mirror lately? as in starting to take notes whenever whatever? being self aware is one huge step to help, go to a sleep doc and get tips from them.

circadian clocks can be altered no problems because world traveling so you shouldn't stick yourself that much to it, the whole routine of what you need to sleep is what is, depending on many other factors you can have positive and negative factors to help your sleeping.

being on the farms is the least place you should seek as a rule because each person here is different with different bodies and routines. for instance many farmers here need to be on the utter darkness and calmness to sleep but other farmers (myself included) can sleep/nap soundly with light and sounds while other farmers are usually mixes, i caught myself with my phone on my face after sleeping because i was browsing some dating apps and i can even sleep with my glasses on but it depends heavily. my alertness is what makes my sleep either ultra heavy or featherlight to a point of waking up for coin dropping sounds.

start to take notes about yourself when going to sleep and get help from the doctors and even consider psy help, i often concur with the kiwi theory that a healthy mind/body work in tandem, luck also plays a part, considering how sedentary i was i got ultra lucky to not develop terrible issues after the docs told me the myriad of issues that i should have, that sucks a bit since i developed dust allergy even though i had no allergies when i was younger, can still sleep without problems, only awakening to find one of my noses with that stuck sensation.

with the rona i think it'll be hard for you to get checkups at the doc and don't self med, docs hate that because in some countries a superbacteria often pops up because people selfmedded to give them resistance.


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## EnemyStand (Mar 21, 2021)

Super unhealthy because I'm on call 24/7/365 and have to go in if someone's unavailable. This week, for example, I worked four 16 hour days, usually only getting 6 hours or so in between. I may be getting used to a 6 hour schedule, though, but since it was so irregular with the shifts being at all hours who the fuck even knows.


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## wunhunglo (Mar 23, 2021)

Being drunk and fucking until dawn, waking up and getting 4 shots of espresso that do nothing for alertness and just make a pleasant body high feeling, going home and crashing out cold is a good way to sleep


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## Apis mellifera (Jun 28, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> View attachment 1916354
> 
> For the past few weeks I've desperately been trying various 'self improvement' methods to deal with a noticeable decline in concentration and work performance I'm suffering from. The TL;DR of it all is that poor sleep seems to be the main factor contributing to it. The "obvious solution" would be "lmao just go to bed earlier bro", and that's true but it's easier said than done for most people. When you get tired, you have reduced judgement, so snappy and responsible decisions become harder to make.
> 
> ...


I like to workout in the morning before hopping in the shower to wake myself up, try doing a personal best for pressups if you can, but any amount of exercise will suffice.  Also, if you're unopposed to leftover coffee, you can leave some black coffee next to your bed for the following morning to drink.  Don't put cream in it or anything, it'll go sour as you sleep.  

For sleep, I like to meditate and clear my mind before going to bed, really helps me to make the ol' racing thoughts shut up, and it improves my sleep quality.  Also, get yourself tested for ADHD and ASD if possible; while not a definitive symptom, a fucked up sleep schedule and a tendency hyper-focus at night seems to be a shared trait amongst me and my autist friends.


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## hundredpercent (Jul 3, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> View attachment 1916354
> 
> For the past few weeks I've desperately been trying various 'self improvement' methods to deal with a noticeable decline in concentration and work performance I'm suffering from. The TL;DR of it all is that poor sleep seems to be the main factor contributing to it. The "obvious solution" would be "lmao just go to bed earlier bro", and that's true but it's easier said than done for most people. When you get tired, you have reduced judgement, so snappy and responsible decisions become harder to make.
> 
> ...


There's a few tricks, but no silver bullets.
- Make sure everything's ready once it gets late. Once you've had dinner, you might as well brush your teeth. If you have problems with procrastinating your sleep schedule, getting rid of all the obstacles helps.
- Try just getting up in the morning, without "beginning the day". Set the alarm, then just get out of bed and stand there for 10 or 15 minutes until your body wakes up. Make sure not to sit down.
- Make sure to eat breakfast as soon as you can. Your body sets the sleep schedule based on when you eat, so it sort of re-centers your sleep schedule
- There's a certain heft to it - sleep schedule isn't just a matter of "went up later, got tired later". You have to keep at it.
- On the same note, drastic changes don't work that well. If you set an alarm really early one day, it's not likely to change anything long-term. You have to be consistent about it, and go for small long-term changes.
- If all else fails, pulling an all-nighter actually does reset it. However, you still need to keep at it to get it to stabilize at the new rhythm. If you go to bed at 6 PM, then you'll wake up at 2 AM or so. That will give you a few days to establish a good schedule, with some leeway since you're going to have a few hours to spare.

Also, the usual about keeping your bedroom dark, but I'm sure you've heard all that.


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## Anonymus Fluhre (Jul 3, 2021)

I've had sleep apnea since I was a baby so I just work as much as possible until I'm exhausted and then get my three to fours of sleep. Usually after the third hour mark is when I start having issues. Once I'm up I can't fall back to sleep until I'm exhausted again. I also have low blood pressure and anemic so that also causes sleep issues.


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## Rusty Crab (Jul 3, 2021)

hundredpercent said:


> There's a few tricks, but no silver bullets.
> - Make sure everything's ready once it gets late. Once you've had dinner, you might as well brush your teeth. If you have problems with procrastinating your sleep schedule, getting rid of all the obstacles helps.
> - Try just getting up in the morning, without "beginning the day". Set the alarm, then just get out of bed and stand there for 10 or 15 minutes until your body wakes up. Make sure not to sit down.
> - Make sure to eat breakfast as soon as you can. Your body sets the sleep schedule based on when you eat, so it sort of re-centers your sleep schedule
> ...


Lately my allergies have started getting to me and coughing will often keep me from sleeping if I stay in bed trying to go to sleep for too long. And no, I typically do not react too well to decongestants. Vaporub works ok on me but there's only so much it can do after 2 hours of buildup. It doesn't _wake_ me up but it keeps me awake if I haven't fallen asleep.

I'm getting desperate enough that I think I may try the all-nighter. No time like the weekend, I suppose.


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## ⋖ cørdion ⋗ (Jul 3, 2021)

I've invested in a new pillow, a weighted blanket (15b), and a mask. I won't say I sleep any better, but it certainly is more of an activity than just laying down. Feeling the embrace of the blanket, living in complete darkness with the mask, and then going early to bed and without much thinking cause I've cut out a lot of negative mental impact in my life.

Yet I wake once or twice a night. No idea why. If not, I'd be a fucking superhuman. 7-8 hours of sleep a day, absolute unit. Alas, maybe one day it'll come.. I've tried it all. No screens, working out all day, going to bed "despite not being tired". I read a Leddit thread, and 4/5 posts about good sleep really just was an empty head. No mental debates or thinking. Baby mode.


> Close your eyes and focus on your breathing. Focus on each limb and then relax them one by one. Take all of them and simply sink. You might feel a jolt as you get into the abyss. That's normal and means it's working.  You should also use this website.


I remember doing something like this. Putting my tongue onto the roof of my mouth and breathing in a specific way? It gave you a real wave of severe tiredness, but it was more of a gimmick than anything. I really don't believe all these methods of sleeping immediately, cause rarely do they rival just being emptyheaded.


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## Spiny Rumples (Jul 3, 2021)

Cactus Wings said:


> I've invested in a new pillow, a weighted blanket (15b), and a mask. I won't say I sleep any better, but it certainly is more of an activity than just laying down. Feeling the embrace of the blanket, living in complete darkness with the mask, and then going early to bed and without much thinking cause I've cut out a lot of negative mental impact in my life.
> 
> Yet I wake once or twice a night. No idea why. If not, I'd be a fucking superhuman. 7-8 hours of sleep a day, absolute unit. Alas, maybe one day it'll come.. I've tried it all. No screens, working out all day, going to bed "despite not being tired". I read a Leddit thread, and 4/5 posts about good sleep really just was an empty head. No mental debates or thinking. Baby mode.
> 
> I remember doing something like this. Putting my tongue onto the roof of my mouth and breathing in a specific way? It gave you a real wave of severe tiredness, but it was more of a gimmick than anything. I really don't believe all these methods of sleeping immediately, cause rarely do they rival just being emptyheaded.


Heads up, weighed blankets can get uncomfortable if used every day. It weighs on the joints. I recommend cycling it on and off or using every now and then. 

I get a lot of benefit from white noise apps and earplugs due to living near traffic.


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