# FBI releases "Finders" Document on CIA connected child sex trafficking cult



## AnOminous (Oct 26, 2019)

This is legit.  It's actually on the FBI site.









						The Finders Part 01 of 03
					






					vault.fbi.gov
				




This is a document about a bizarre sex cult that was (briefly) investigated and got news coverage way back.  Two well dressed white men associated with the cult were arrested with six small children all under the age of six acting like animals, who didn't recognize items like telephones or typewriters and were filthy and partly unclothed.

Other stuff turning up were pictures of children in blood rituals sacrificing animals, as well as naked in pornographic situations.

Some of the people were associated with the CIA.

And then for some reason this entire investigation was just shut down and the news stories went away, even with claims that the cult's behavior was only "eccentric" but not "illegal," even though running international pedophile rings is, I'm pretty sure, a bit more than "eccentric."

Anyway, this is pretty fucked up and is seriously Pizzagate level depravity.


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## Glitched_Humanity (Oct 26, 2019)

Nothing surprises me anymore.


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## Rice Is Ready (Oct 26, 2019)

Learned about this and the McMartin Preschool case from the good ol boys on Last Podcast on The Left a while back. They also covered this evil bastard.


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## AgriDrThunder (Oct 26, 2019)

Of course this happened in Florida. Where else would it happen.


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## Niggernerd (Oct 26, 2019)

Rice Is Ready said:


> Learned about this and the McMartin Preschool case from the good ol boys on Last Podcast on The Left a while back. They also covered this evil bastard.View attachment 985648


fucking villain eye brows


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## Rice Is Ready (Oct 26, 2019)

Agricola said:


> Of course this happened in Florida. Where else would it happen.



The Hill House in Nethers Virginia


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## Dom Cruise (Oct 26, 2019)

What the fuuuuuuuuck?


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## AnOminous (Oct 26, 2019)

Rice Is Ready said:


> Learned about this and the McMartin Preschool case from the good ol boys on Last Podcast on The Left a while back. They also covered this evil bastard.View attachment 985648



It looks like this case got the discrediting of the McMartin preschool case used as a way of sweeping it under the rug by portraying it as just more of the same kind of "Satanic Panic" shit going on at the same time even though this looks very much like it actually happened.



Niggernerd said:


> fucking villain eye brows



Also imagine being able to be in full military uniform and still look Satanic as fuck just by those fucked up villain eyebrows.


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## Where Do You Find Them? (Oct 26, 2019)

This is a CIA internal matter, nothing to see here citizen. Seriously, that's why the investigation was shut down.

The FBI seemed to think this was a cult that was used by the CIA for their purposes. It might be that the child abuse angle was just overblown satanic panic, or the CIA was prostituting them for bribery/blackmail purposes. 

I find this type of shit very hard to read with all the retractions. I only got about half way through, I'll read the rest later. Defo some very weird shit going on there though, if not child sexual abuse then neglect at least. You've got 6 year olds who don't know what a toilet is.


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## nagant 1895 (Oct 26, 2019)

I don't want to ride this train any more. 
 
The less crazy I look and sound to those around me the more worried it makes me.


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## millais (Oct 26, 2019)

If the glow-in-the-darks are determined to depose Trump with a soft-coup anyway, he should just have the Air Force glass Langley.


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## Jewthulhu (Oct 26, 2019)

Why is it always the people in government who are into this weird pedophile satanic shit?


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## UnKillShredDur (Oct 26, 2019)

Finders keepers~

Seriously though... fuck these people.


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## millais (Oct 26, 2019)

Jewthulhu said:


> Why is it always the people in government who are into this weird pedophile satanic shit?


There's probably some level of weird insular, institutional desensitization to common societal norms and morality, but also the type of career ladder-climbers who succeed and thrive in that kind of work environment and culture are psychologically abnormal from the get go


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## Krokodil Overdose (Oct 26, 2019)

Where Do You Find Them? said:


> This is a CIA internal matter, nothing to see here citizen. Seriously, that's why the investigation was shut down.
> 
> The FBI seemed to think this was a cult that was used by the CIA for their purposes. It might be that the child abuse angle was just overblown satanic panic, or the CIA was prostituting them for bribery/blackmail purposes.
> 
> I find this type of shit very hard to read with all the retractions. I only got about half way through, I'll read the rest later. Defo some very weird shit going on there though, if not child sexual abuse then neglect at least. You've got 6 year olds who don't know what a toilet is.



It occurs to me that the best outcome is them performing some sort of horribly unethical experiment on feral children.

That's the BEST outcome.


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## Pocket Dragoon (Oct 26, 2019)

Remember this guy? 
Yeah, overturned.

They protect their own



Spoiler






> ADAM MILLER/U.S. MARINE CORPS
> 
> 
> By MATTHEW M. BURKE | STARS AND STRIPES
> ...






He never quit, either


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## SiccDicc (Oct 26, 2019)

Krokodil Overdose said:


> It occurs to me that the best outcome is them performing some sort of horribly unethical experiment on feral children.
> 
> That's the BEST outcome.


My money is on Wild Child Fights™ and they were gonna pitch it to Spike TV before the FBI busted them.


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## Kamov Ka-52 (Oct 26, 2019)

Can this timeline stop being completely bizarre for five goddamn minutes?


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## Kari Kamiya (Oct 26, 2019)

Holy shit, Terry tried to warn us about the CIA and their pedophile cult. That's why the glow-in-the-darks got him.


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## Judge Holden (Oct 26, 2019)

Well the MKUltra shit that was declassified indicates that KGB style "film politicians/businessmen having sex with underage girls and blackmail them" operations were being run for a longass time

Given the batshit stupid and nightmarishly evil shit various intelligence agencies throughout the past 150 years have gotten up to, I wonder whether the CIA as a whole or some part of it is operating under the belief that having pedophiles as assets and operatives results in not only absolute loyalty for fear of being exposed and destroyed, but that these assets will be psychologically driven to go above and beyond the impossible to carry out a mission to their operator's satisfaction so long as they get a generous payment of hardcore CP, or perhaps access to "disposable" kids to abuse should they really rack up the good boy points.

This would explain why CP and child abuse keeps cropping up around various shady intel agency doings, and could also help explain the whole "establishment run/operated child sex rings" thing that we have been seeing pop its head out the shadows more and more these days. Hell given the links between the CIA and MI6 and the well documented child fuckery in the UK political sphere coupled with the inexplicable lengths various UK leaders have gone to in trying to make allegations go away and the accused untouchable until they die, maybe this shit is NATO wide.

Ofcourse like so many such conspiracy theories, a major issue would be the lack of exposure from enemy governments and agencies who would have little to fear and could gain enormously from how much this would fuck the western establishment up, which is why I suspect if this shit is close to the truth, its only an "unofficial" and unspoken policy by segments of intel agencies who use their proverbial and literal badge to get the wider agencies/governments to cover for them without poking around too much

If this all sounds too fucking stupid to be possible, I would agree 100% but would remind yall that intel agencies have a really long history of some jawdroppingly stupid shit being done solely because some idiot in the agency was pushing it through and nobody around them thought to question it. Hell just last night I was reading about the OG Imperial Russian Okhrana who in their infinite wisdom sought to stem the tides of revolution and dissent by actively sponsering and funding revolution and dissent, right up until Lenin kicked down the palace doors, showing that stupid ass hijinks have long found themselves a home in the spooknigger agencies of the world


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## heathercho (Oct 26, 2019)

Why is anyone surprised after the Dolphin Square debacle? 
The metpolice just pretended to look into it and then claimed he - a pedo himself now - made it all up for shits and giggles and put him in prison.
Yet plenty of others have come out about related things. But don't think of it too hard, goy. It's all a crazzzzy conspiracy.
Pizzagate wasn't real, Epstein killed himself and it was perfectly normal, this isn't important either.

The CIA is without a doubt the enemy of the people. Terry was right.


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## Spl00gies (Oct 26, 2019)

The documents relating to the underground tunnels and the floor plan description of McMartin preschool are particularly horrifying. 

The wikipedia article on the Mc Martin Preschool is apparently having an edit fight over whether the tunnels exist or not.









There's a whole lot of wtf in this dump.


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## heathercho (Oct 26, 2019)

skullomania said:


> The documents relating to the underground tunnels and the floor plan description of McMartin preschool are particularly horrifying.
> 
> The wikipedia article on the Mc Martin Preschool is apparently having an edit fight over whether the tunnels exist or not.
> 
> ...



Wikipedia 

If you read the wiki article about the McMartin case - like ALL the other daycare sex abuse cases, they'll have you believe that no cases of child sex abuse have ever happened in history. Really makes you think.


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## Imperialist #348 (Oct 26, 2019)

so does this mean that pizzagaters were right but got the wrong place?


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## Arcturus (Oct 26, 2019)

Rice Is Ready said:


> Learned about this and the McMartin Preschool case from the good ol boys on Last Podcast on The Left a while back. They also covered this evil bastard.View attachment 985648




Do you know where to find that particular one? There was some sperg not too long ago that kept making socks and spamming about someone being a pedophile while also talking about himself being a follower of Michael and the Temple of Set.  I've been curious about Michael Aquino since then but he's hard to find much info on.


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## Easterling (Oct 26, 2019)

Man I recall hearing about this one before, maybe that satanic panic back in the 1990s wasn't just bullshit after all eh?


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## heyilikeyourmom (Oct 26, 2019)

“I feel like this real news about the exploitation of children is distracting us from the true enemy that is fake news about the political views of the adults who openly exploit children.  No, the government isn’t taking away your guns, and if they happen to plow a couple of pre-schoolers in their free time, that’s their business.  Please take this survey on whether or not you would vote for Hillary Clinton in 2020 if it turned out Joe Biden was secretly her being digitally de-aged.” -Public Relations predictive text


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## Jeffrey Epstein (Oct 26, 2019)

Should I be scared to download this?  I feel like I should be, and gross.


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## YourMommasBackstory (Oct 26, 2019)

Jeffrey Epstein said:


> Should I be scared to download this?  I feel like I should be, and gross.


There's text document scans only


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## TokiBun (Oct 26, 2019)

If the CIA is making these rings as a honey pot for pedos why not just use adult midgets instead of actual children?


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## Denmark Mafia (Oct 26, 2019)

Saw this on Twitter. This guy has done some SERIOUS digging on The Finders and I am liking it so far:

Investigation:








						The Finders: An Investigation #1
					

Our next documentary is focused on The Finders cult. Derrick Broze breaks down the basics of the story. Stay tuned for more videos. The Conscious Resistance ...




					www.youtube.com
				




Documentary:








						Who Will Find What The Finders Hide? (Full Documentary)
					

The Conscious Resistance Network presents: Who Will Find What The Finders Hide? Researched, Written, and Narrated by Derrick Broze Produced and Edited by Jer...




					www.youtube.com


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## Exigent Circumcisions (Oct 26, 2019)

AnxiousRobin said:


> If the CIA is making these rings as a honey pot for pedos why not just use adult midgets instead of actual children?


Midgets don't actually look like children up close; they're stocky and sexually developed.


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## Rice Is Ready (Oct 26, 2019)

Tryphaena said:


> Do you know where to find that particular one? There was some sperg not too long ago that kept making socks and spamming about someone being a pedophile while also talking about himself being a follower of Michael and the Temple of Set.  I've been curious about Michael Aquino since then but he's hard to find much info on.




It's in this episode









						EPISODE 118: SATANISM IN THE GOVERNMENT PART I – HELLFIRE
					

In this, the first of a three-part series, we blow the lid off the Satanic (child pedophile ring) elements of the United States government starting with the ...




					youtu.be
				






Easterling said:


> Man I recall hearing about this one before, maybe that satanic panic back in the 1990s wasn't just bullshit after all eh?



In 20 years Epstein will be swept under the rug and just remembered as part of that crazy "Me-Too Movement"


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## Botchy Galoop (Oct 26, 2019)

You want a real conspiracy?

The children were not human.


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## AgriDrThunder (Oct 26, 2019)

Botchy Galoop said:


> You want a real conspiracy?
> 
> The children were not human.



Blackeyed children breeding program?


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## Stasi (Oct 26, 2019)

What the actual fuck is this glow in the dark shit 

So they find ironclad evidence of child abuse and fuck knows what else and the CIA basically said nah nothing to see here guys, just move along and the entire investigation is just dropped? Kill me now.


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## MagneticTowels (Oct 26, 2019)

FBI, CIA, and NSA investigating child sex trafficking



Spoiler


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## Smug Cat (Oct 26, 2019)

Well my fucking apologies to the conspiracy theorists who were apparently right all along. 

I used to know someone a while back who worked with child sex abuse victims and at one point they said to me that the "satanic panic" child sex abuse wasn't actually completely fake and that people would tell you it was but it wasn't. This was a very smart person who was very competent and on the money with most things, and I never really knew what to make of that. I feel kind of stupid for doubting them now. They apparently knew something the rest of us didn't.


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## saralovesjuicyfruit (Oct 26, 2019)

I dug into these people pretty deep a couple years ago. Almost all of them are on Facebook (or they were at the time) and they're mostly all friends with each other. Most of them look like Jews and the majority of them had pictures with a bunch of kids.

Edit: Here's one of them. I remember they were building some kind of farm commune thing called The Open Circle (I got an error message when I tried to archive that, if someone else wants to give it a shot go ahead). It's an offshoot of this commune started back in 1967 called the Twin Oaks Community.

Some of the other members' names: Ronald L. Alleman, Stanley Berns, Christian (Kris) Herbst, Kristin Knauth, Theodore G. Reiss, Allen Schoen, Stuart Miles Silverstone, Randolph Winn, and Steve Usdin.

Kris Herbst, Kristin Knauth (as Kristin Nauth), and Randolph Winn (as Rannie Winn) are all on her friend list.

Also, the main base of The Finders wasn't Florida, though they had activities there; it was Culpeper, VA and also some activity in D.C. proper.


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## Exigent Circumcisions (Oct 26, 2019)

Rice Is Ready said:


> It's in this episode
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a pack of insufferable cunts. I'm tempted to believe they're intentionally trying to turn people off of looking into these things with their lame jokes. Blech.


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## Spooky Bones (Oct 26, 2019)

skullomania said:


> The documents relating to the underground tunnels and the floor plan description of McMartin preschool are particularly horrifying.
> 
> The wikipedia article on the Mc Martin Preschool is apparently having an edit fight over whether the tunnels exist or not.
> 
> ...


And the MacMartin Preschool is pretty much a byword for "fake child sexual abuse claims that are outlandish and bizarre and absolutely did not happen and lead to witch hunts because fundies are dumb and psychologists employed questionable techniques." (The latter assertion is true but psychology is inherently not an exact science, much to the chagrin of psychologists, and that there is a prominently questionable quantum of evidence for something is not the same as the sum of the evidence for it being questionable.)

When you consider that something may actually have happened, that's pretty disturbing. The "fact" that the "Satanic panic" nonsense was nonsense is in the category of climate change and WWII war crimes where people are expected to just as an epistemological first assumption realize that claims to the contrary are categorically wrong and made by delusional/bad/foolish people. This isn't to say that there probably isn't plenty of nonsense but whenever these nexuses of "of course no rational person would believe X" with potential evidence of "X" it really will get you wondering about the "rational people" who dismiss it as categoric nonsense. The world is a lot more disturbing than we want to admit as well as simultaneously being less complex (yes capital E objective metaphysical Evil is real as a certain meme put it: look no further than child troons for it to be blatantly advocated) and more complex (the situations that create this sort of thing aren't "just" the fact that there are very wicked people in the world but in fact they cross with all sorts of power structures and ideologies and general ugliness.)


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## post (Oct 26, 2019)

i remember someone integrating it into an elsagate ARG, spooky shit when you can disregard all the ARG fluff, but not the finders case


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## Denmark Mafia (Oct 26, 2019)

Denmark Mafia said:


> Saw this on Twitter. This guy has done some SERIOUS digging on The Finders and I am liking it so far:
> 
> Investigation:
> 
> ...



Big brain takes are now coming in. It's time for the real questions to asked.


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## Syaoran Li (Oct 26, 2019)

Smug Cat said:


> Well my fucking apologies to the conspiracy theorists who were apparently right all along.
> 
> I used to know someone a while back who worked with child sex abuse victims and at one point they said to me that the "satanic panic" child sex abuse wasn't actually completely fake and that people would tell you it was but it wasn't. This was a very smart person who was very competent and on the money with most things, and I never really knew what to make of that. I feel kind of stupid for doubting them now. They apparently knew something the rest of us didn't.



I've heard that too from two friends of my family, one of whom is a police officer and a level-headed competent guy, and the other had worked for CPS for years.

Given that I grew up in a very "Bible Belt" region, I always kind of dismissed it as either misinterpretation or a few sickos pulling a Richard Ramirez and using Satanism as a way to prey on local fears (the Chicago Rippers also did this in the 80's during the peak of the Satanic Panic) but now I'm not so sure...

Personally, I still think the Satanic Panic of the 80's and 90's was mostly bullshit. Or to be more accurate, I think the way that events are seen by the fundie party line of the Satanic Panic was utter bullshit. A lot of the main peddlers of the Satanic Panic hysteria have been decisively discredited, with John Todd and Rebecca Brown being the most egregious and horrifying examples while Jack Chick and Bill Schnoebelen having the most lolcow-tier takes on it.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if there were elites who are pulling the Richard Ramirez/Chicago Rippers ploy but on a more organized level with greater scope, and then using the historic idiocies of the Religious Right to discredit anyone that tries to blow the whistle on it.

Then again, we have seen Millennial SJW's go above and beyond to act like villains in a Chick Tract, complete with trying to make "green enviornmentalism" into a cult of sorts.

For all we know, this could be the end results of some elites discussing the Satanic Panic aboard the Lolita Express and one of them saying "Hmm, you think we could try this out but in real life?" and another replying with "I don't know, but we can give it the old college try!"


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## Smug Cat (Oct 26, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> I've heard that too from two friends of my family, one of whom is a police officer and a level-headed competent guy, and the other had worked for CPS for years.
> 
> Given that I grew up in a very "Bible Belt" region, I always kind of dismissed it as either misinterpretation or a few sickos pulling a Richard Ramirez and using Satanism as a way to prey on local fears (the Chicago Rippers also did this in the 80's during the peak of the Satanic Panic) but now I'm not so sure...
> 
> ...


I think that's a pretty spot-on analysis. I would be very surprised if there are or were any actual people unironically worshipping Satan and doing this shit. I imagine any connection would either be for deniability/taking advantage of the panic, a general love of the aesthetic/transgressiveness of the ritualistic aspects, or the perpetrators are just into some really fucked up shit and when you show fucked-up shit to a fundie they think Satanism. Like a sadist might force a child to kill an animal just out of sadism, and then a fundie goes "GASP! animal sacrifice to the devil!" or whatever. 

I'm sure a whole lot of the rhetoric is bullshit. But there were tunnels under the McMartin preschool, when everyone told us there weren't. Who even knows what's real anymore.


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## Where Do You Find Them? (Oct 26, 2019)

"Two children were confirmed cases of sexual abuse."

Well there we are, they found bite marks on one of the kids as well. Aside from this one part it's never mentioned again though and even contradicted plenty of times. It seems the HRS thought there was child abuse but the FBI "found no evidence" of it.

"<redacted> said that the contact told him that <redacted> put the word out to members to flee and hide. <redacted>
stated that <redacted> himself would probably go to Andrews Air Force Base and get a military plane flight to china"

So either someone's full of shit or their leader (I presume) has some serious connections.

It seems one of the initial two suspects (the men with the six kids in the van) had two copies of a signed miranda rights document with two different names and statements one starting "I have nothing to hide" and the other "I have something to hide." It says full copies of the documents are in the "case file." Is that something we have access to? I couldn't find it in the PDF. There was also mention of a poem called "the ballad of ballads" found in the van but again it's in the case file.

There's quite a few suspicious redactions. I don't know what the norm is for this shit but 99% of them are names and then 1% are big blocks of testimony. Weirdly the only name that wasn't redacted was "Christine Isabell Pettie" who apparently worked for the CIA.

Does anyone know what "this matter is considered RUC" means?

There's a whole bunch of other dodgy shit in there. I'm gonna have to go through those videos posted and then maybe do some of my own digging and try to piece it all together.


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## heathercho (Oct 26, 2019)

Spooky Bones said:


> And the MacMartin Preschool is pretty much a byword for "fake child sexual abuse claims that are outlandish and bizarre and absolutely did not happen and lead to witch hunts because fundies are dumb and psychologists employed questionable techniques." (The latter assertion is true but psychology is inherently not an exact science, much to the chagrin of psychologists, and that there is a prominently questionable quantum of evidence for something is not the same as the sum of the evidence for it being questionable.)
> 
> When you consider that something may actually have happened, that's pretty disturbing. The "fact" that the "Satanic panic" nonsense was nonsense is in the category of climate change and WWII war crimes where people are expected to just as an epistemological first assumption realize that claims to the contrary are categorically wrong and made by delusional/bad/foolish people. This isn't to say that there probably isn't plenty of nonsense but whenever these nexuses of "of course no rational person would believe X" with potential evidence of "X" it really will get you wondering about the "rational people" who dismiss it as categoric nonsense. The world is a lot more disturbing than we want to admit as well as simultaneously being less complex (yes capital E objective metaphysical Evil is real as a certain meme put it: look no further than child troons for it to be blatantly advocated) and more complex (the situations that create this sort of thing aren't "just" the fact that there are very wicked people in the world but in fact they cross with all sorts of power structures and ideologies and general ugliness.)



The McMartin Preschool case was insane.
The original mother-accuser, Judy Johnson, just so happened to "die" before the prelim hearing was finished.
She was "mentally ill" and an "alcoholic". It's always so amazing how in so many of these case, people just drop dead.
The tunnels were confirmed at the time by an archeologist, yet you had people handwaiving that away.
The children had testimony that accurately described the tunnels.
My personal theory is that the satanic connection isn't satanic, more that it falls inline with other declassified techniques on meditation, brainwashing and altered states.
It just took the form to the kids as "satanic".

Either way, anyone who thinks the CIA are just a bunch of friendly, glow in the darks who care about the US and who don't obfuscate other agencies from the truth are idiots.


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## Distant Stare (Oct 26, 2019)

It is an open secret. This surprises no one who pays attention anymore, especially after Epstein. Nothing will happen, as per usual


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## AnOminous (Oct 26, 2019)

Where Do You Find Them? said:


> Does anyone know what "this matter is considered RUC" means?








						12. Abbreviations Used In FBI Reports
					






					www.justice.gov
				



"RUC - Referred upon completion to office of origin"


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## Not an NSA Plant 69 (Oct 26, 2019)

Where Do You Find Them? said:


> Does anyone know what "this matter is considered RUC" means?



This is an FBI investigation document, so RUC in this context is Referred Upon Completion (to office of origin).

It is typically used when Head Quarters or a Field Office requests another Field Office to investigate something. When the investigating Field Office is finished they will send the completed investigation back to the originating office and will respond with something like the cited text which is FBI-speak for "Okay, here's the stuff you asked for.  We're done with this unless you tell us differently."

Edit: Sniped by seconds lol


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## Save Goober (Oct 27, 2019)

This sounds a little crazy, but since most people here seem to agree that there's definitely some weird satanic pedo thing going on with the elite class, and now that intelligence agencies tried to keep information about these practices hidden, I'm just going to put it out there.

I've wondered for awhile if there's some secret reason that they're doing these rituals and fucking kids that us normal people aren't aware of. I don't really know what that could be, except maybe they think it gives them powers or something? I don't believe in magic or the devil fwiw so I have a hard time reconciling what the reason could be, but I can't help but think there's some specific purpose for mixing satanic worship and kiddie diddling that is not publicly known but is believed to be true in certain circles.

I can accept "they're just pedo degenerates" for why they're fucking kids, but the Satan shit mixed in just doesn't make sense to me. All the people I've known who unironically believed in satanic rituals were white trash fundies. Smarter people who are still Christian seem to believe in Satan as more of an otherwordly concept and not something you can actually conjure with rituals.



heathercho said:


> My personal theory is that the satanic connection isn't satanic, more that it falls inline with other declassified techniques on meditation, brainwashing and altered states.


This could make sense, but I dunno. I keep thinking back to the "spirit cooking" and more overt satanic symbolism coming out of pizzagate.
I'm kind of assuming that all the satanic kiddie diddlers are reading from the same playbook and it's all connected, but I don't really know what to think.


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## Denmark Mafia (Oct 27, 2019)

melty said:


> This sounds a little crazy, but since most people here seem to agree that there's definitely some weird satanic pedo thing going on with the elite class, and now that intelligence agencies tried to keep information about these practices hidden, I'm just going to put it out there.
> 
> I've wondered for awhile if there's some secret reason that they're doing these rituals and fucking kids that us normal people aren't aware of. I don't really know what that could be, except maybe they think it gives them powers or something? I don't believe in magic or the devil fwiw so I have a hard time reconciling what the reason could be, but I can't help but think there's some specific purpose for mixing satanic worship and kiddie diddling that is not publicly known but is believed to be true in certain circles.
> 
> ...



I think Kubrick was trying to say some things about this in Eyes Wide Shut. It's still worth a watch but if I remember correctly there is some mystery about the final cut... And Kubrick's sudden death.


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## .Woody (Oct 27, 2019)

With all the fucked up shit some people have to look at and/or do in both the FBI and the CIA, especially with all the information they have know, I can't say I'm surprised. If these guys are having to trawl through actual child pornography and animal rape on a daily basis,a few of them might just snap and start getting into it, like some sort of insane coping mechanism.


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## Where Do You Find Them? (Oct 27, 2019)

heathercho said:


> The children had testimony that accurately described the tunnels.


They did, but the child also described the uses of the tunnels as a food room and tool store etc. Only the eldest child actually spoke at first, but she did say that the others didn't speak because they were told not to. I think some of the other children ended up speaking but it's hard to tell who's who with all the redactions.

What is very dodgy is that during the raid (which was just 2 days after the arrests) they found lots of children's clothing, diapers and toys, but no kids. Apparently the group was communicating via a BBS. A computer with copies of the BBS messages was found just lying around outside a library near a telephone that could have been used to dial into the BBS. Presumably hastily abandoned to avoid incrimination. Another similar computer was found during a raid. Some of the messages talked about the arrests "in detail" and that they were now "scared and hiding." One of the messages had instructions to move the children through different jurisdictions and how to avoid police detection.

Other messages included stuff on how to procure children through impregnating their female members, buying them and kidnapping them. Again, full copies are in the case file. 

They did the usual cult tactics of isolating members from friends and family. If the families got pushy they would send them detailed accounts of sexually explicit encounters featuring their family members complete with photos until they went away. 

It should be possible to match up some of the redactions with publicly available names. We know that the leader is Marion Pettie, it was reported in newspapers at the time, which has the right length to be the person taking a military plane to China.

The US customs report is here: http://tedgunderson.info/index_htm_files/US Customs Service Report of Investigation FINDERS.pdf

It has more grizzly details that I couldn't find in the FBI report. "One such telex specifically ordered the purchase of two children in Hong Kong to be arranged through a contact at a Chinese embassy there." I have to imagine this is in one of the redacted blocks in the FBI document.

They were collecting a lot of information on any families that put out adverts for nannys etc and on child care organizations.



melty said:


> if there's some secret reason that they're doing these rituals


The psychological effect of ritual is well studied. Almost all cults use them in some form. It binds the members together. Even better if the rituals involve doing something considered immoral such as satanic shit.


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## rooblue (Oct 27, 2019)

Reading through all this, and knowing about Epstein, what is it going to take for the common people to rise up? 
A fleeting thought I had was that only if video-graphic evidence of a politician/celebrity engaged in these horrific acts was leaked and spread, maybe then, but it’s illegal to even possess and the last thing any sane human wants to expose themselves to.


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## Stasi (Oct 27, 2019)

A little off topic - Someone already mentioned Eyes Wide Shut. I'd also recommend checking out Enemy of the State. Less about degenerate cult stuff and more about abuse of power by intelligence agencies. 

As this kind of shit is revealed it looks less like a stupid action movie and more like a documentary expose.


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## Spl00gies (Oct 27, 2019)

Handy dandy US Customs Service Report of Investigation on the Finders, just so happens to contain a bunch of redacted names.

Also found a google drive link to the police reports without redacted information Finders Police Reports

Archive of US Customs Report
Archive of Police Reports


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## dirtydeanna96 (Oct 27, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> Given that I grew up in a very "Bible Belt" region, I always kind of dismissed it as either misinterpretation or a few sickos pulling a Richard Ramirez and using Satanism as a way to prey on local fears (the Chicago Rippers also did this in the 80's during the peak of the Satanic Panic)



Likewise, but even if they are not Satanists per se, lots of people are into demonolotry, performing magick and giving some kind of sacrifice to what they believe to be malevolent spirit.


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## Easterling (Oct 27, 2019)

TalmudSperg said:


> Likewise, but even if they are not Satanists per say, lots of people are into demonolotry, performing magick and giving some kind of sacrifice to what they believe to be malevolent spirit.


Welcome to real /x/ hours, tune in next week for sex tulpas.


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## Denmark Mafia (Oct 27, 2019)

That is today


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## Stasi (Oct 27, 2019)

Maybe unsurprising but media seems to have absolutely no interest in this. Google news search brings up links to twitter and reddit threads and a bunch of links to the original 1987 articles. No recent write ups. Nothing to see here guys, just move along.


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## heathercho (Oct 27, 2019)

melty said:


> This could make sense, but I dunno. I keep thinking back to the "spirit cooking" and more overt satanic symbolism coming out of pizzagate.
> I'm kind of assuming that all the satanic kiddie diddlers are reading from the same playbook and it's all connected, but I don't really know what to think.



That could very well be the case. I think like... when the kids at McMartin talked about the "strange" things like ;



> A 10-year-old boy testified Wednesday that he and fellow preschool students were taken to a cemetery where they were forced to dig up dead bodies, then watch them be “hacked to pieces” in a grisly warning not to divulge their sex secrets.



Or people flying etc, I think that whilst they didn't actually participate in things like that, this was more guided meditation stuff, visualisation to install fear in these children.

When the CIA declassified the Gateway Experience stuff, it wasn't dismissed. It had hard science related to it.
I truly believe that these satanic panic cases were connected in that they were experiments on using that technique of "mind control" etc, whatever you want to call it.
I assume that the kids in the Finders case would have undergone similar things. Like this ;



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> The psychological effect of ritual is well studied. Almost all cults use them in some form. It binds the members together. Even better if the rituals involve doing something considered immoral such as satanic shit.





Where Do You Find Them? said:


> They did, but the child also described the uses of the tunnels as a food room and tool store etc. Only the eldest child actually spoke at first, but she did say that the others didn't speak because they were told not to. I think some of the other children ended up speaking but it's hard to tell who's who with all the redactions.



Sorry, I meant specifically the McMartin Preschool testimony, not the Finder kids.

I find it interesting that the McMartin tunnel stuff was inserted into this Finders case file though, I don't quite understand why it would be in there, but I'm glad it is.

The more "crazy conspiracy" stuff related to this Finders case, is its pseudo connection to Sandy Hook.
When Sandy Hook happened, this idea of children being "loaned" out was something that was explored by
civilians and journalists looking into the whole situation.
There was a lot wrong with Sandy Hook and a lot wrong with the connection between the children, their families, the town, the school and their existence in the narrative. I understand that people will dismiss that, as they will dismiss this Finders stuff and will dismiss every previous cult-esque sex abuse ring, but I find the parallels interesting.


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## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 27, 2019)

melty said:


> This sounds a little crazy, but since most people here seem to agree that there's definitely some weird satanic pedo thing going on with the elite class, and now that intelligence agencies tried to keep information about these practices hidden, I'm just going to put it out there.
> 
> I've wondered for awhile if there's some secret reason that they're doing these rituals and fucking kids that us normal people aren't aware of. I don't really know what that could be, except maybe they think it gives them powers or something? I don't believe in magic or the devil fwiw so I have a hard time reconciling what the reason could be, but I can't help but think there's some specific purpose for mixing satanic worship and kiddie diddling that is not publicly known but is believed to be true in certain circles.
> 
> ...


I think theres an element of being made to do something so abhorrent that there's no turning back. That's something that comes up a lot, it was the same with Boystown. Paul Bonacci talked about it in his deposition and it seemed to bleed over to the victims too. He was kidnapped and raped and in turn was forced to kidnap and rape  other kids in particular he admitted to kidnapping Johnny Gosch.


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## Spergichu (Oct 27, 2019)

Wait, weren't the Finders active in Peltzer, SC? I don't remember there being anything about them in DC?


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## XYZpdq (Oct 27, 2019)

I wonder if there's any links to draw between this and Dozier School


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## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 27, 2019)

Spergichu said:


> Wait, weren't the Finders active in Peltzer, SC? I don't remember there being anything about them in DC?


It's in the PDF. The two men arrested with the 6 children in Tallahassee were originally from Washington.


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## Opiophile (Oct 28, 2019)

I feel like it's very telling how the media seems to have zero interest in this story. You'd think they'd be all over this, but I'm guessing there's a reason this was only reported on for a week back in '87 when the FL shit first happened.

Jim made a nice connection during his stream today when he said how interesting it was at how similar the news cycle treated the Epstein "suicide" as they did this Finders shit back in '87. Really gets the noggin joggin. Makes me wonder what other fucked up shit is being done under our noses?


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## Perspicacity (Oct 28, 2019)

Ok so I read about half the report and here's what I can extrapolate. I will attempt to fill information but will label REDACTED so you know it's my conjecture.

4/3/92 CIA handwritten letter to FBI
-----------------------------------

FBI investigation of Finders examining links of employment by CIA and media leaks from the organization. Difficult to read. Talks about examining CIA protecting Finders in 1987, written by CIA agent. Refutes FBI, MPD, and TPD accussations of CIA interferance, says CIA only used Finders for low level operations. Claims it was blown up by media.  Likely included in the report as a fuck you to CIA. I will examine and translate this letter last because I need more information on what he's talking about in the letter, plus it's fucking hard to read.

I will examine the pre-school thing later as I think once I read the entire case file it be included will make more sense.


Who are Finders? (WMFO to FBI Miami 11/3/93)
---------------------------------------------

According REDACTED(Some informant) Finders a group REDACTED (Founded by the CIA)  in 1972 with the idea of responding to people in emergencies. Group gathers information for people or companies. Group founder mysterious and often in unknown locations. All members claim the group consists of an alternate lifestyle, communal-type association made of up of intellectuals who have chosen to live the way they do.

All mothers and *three *fathers deny all charges, agreed to be polygraphed.

4/13/87 MPD Investigated Final Report (Classified Secret by CIA)
-------------------------------------------------------------

12/18/86 Finders Satanic Rituals Reported.
Summary: Maryland woman contacts PD out of fear of Finder's group strange rituals, calling them satanic, and members trying to introduce her to the cult . Detective declines to investigate in December but then decides to investigate after the woman contacts him again in Jan 89. Detective contacted for information of Finders.

2/5/87 Six children taken into police custody
Customs contacts MPD about six children located in Florida were in the custody of two men. The children were dirty, unkept, insect bitten, underfed, and possibly sexually abused. U.S Customs trying to identify children and parents. Tallahassee Police contacted. TPD was responded to call about 6 children in poor condition, children taken into the police custody.

2/5/87-2/6/87 D.C. Raid on Founders HQ and Warehouse.
Warrants executed. No children found. Files on and documents dealing with child rearing and shaping, manuals for "master plans", and "dirty tricks" for enemies of the Finders group. Information turned over to FL authorities.

Interviews: February-April, 87
Interviews 21 former members of the group. They all state that group started as alternative life style in 1960s, they became disenchanted with the quasi-military order under the direct supervision of REDACTED. Many former members feared retribution from the group. One former member recounts contacting the police to stop their harassment. In another case related to the Finders REDACTED was burned down and remains an open arson.  In yet another case members of the Finders  attempted to infiltrate REDACTED REDACTED in the United States. All members feared harm would come to them if they spoke out against REDACTED or his organization.

All stated that REDACTED had brainwashed their children and prevented contact with their grandchildren. Would stop all contact by describing explicit sexual acts including members, including photographs and drawings.

10/7/92  Extortion Case which was also dropped.


> That he and several others of the "Finders" group, REDACTED adviced that he and his colleagues realized that REDACTED. REDACTED and the others, at the time, were in a custody battle of the group's property assets. REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED Purportedly resided at REDACTED Virginia



Feb-April, 87 Search Warrant: Finders Farm, Madison County Virginia
Searched warrants executed, group appears to be survivalist organization with attempts to take over city government of Culpepper Virginia. Information given about bodies being buried on farm, none were found. Cages were discovered on premises, witnesses testified it they were used to keep children during their visits to the farm.

Background Info on FBI involvement: FBI in contact with Finders since 1971, recent reports indication CIA directly involved with Finders member passing information about activities of the CIA overseas. FBI seems have been called off any investigations by CIA.

Background info on CIA involvement.
Although the CIA claims their only involvement was that REDACTED was a former employee of the agency. They stated that they were monitoring this investigation from the beginning.

Just read the PDF of the investigators summary and his inclusion of the the organizations links to the CIA, putting here for those too lazy to download. Sorry about markings, I'm too lazy to delete them.










My First Hot Take
-----------------


Educated individuals were targeted during the 60s to form "alternate lifestyle" communes.
People were encouraged to have children in the commune and likely young families.
Organization begins to become militant in the 70s, members are encouraged to engage in strange rituals.
Likely they are being being exposed to various forms of mind control, those resistant to suggestion leave the organization in the 70s.
All members that leave are ex-communicated.
Main population are children of original members. Probably now estranged from their parents who left.
Most of members are now born into or indoctrinated at a young age.
By late 70s early 80s these members are now having their own children.
Time for the real experiment to begin.
Children of cult are now raised/trained in an entirely militant environment.
Now the experimentation of the children begins.
Expose the children to various forms of hypnosis and suggestion
Children are forced to kill animals "a game to teach them where food comes from"
Children are forced to "play games" in dark basements where "men in black robes make monster noises"
Children and adults must all obey the "game caller"
Sleeper agent program

It's all really quite terrifying and sickening. Desensitizing children to blood and violence, forcing them to survive outside, confining them to cramped spaces and darkness....... These children are clearly being trained and experimented on.  I've read about half of the case files and at least 5 of the members are active CIA agents as of 1987, including the leader. This would also explain the extensive documentation of the children, their anatomy, exposure to mind control, etc. That the group get out of control and started trafficking the children for money is also a very real possibility. The MPD agent who wrote this report was really quite bold, he tried his best to call out the CIA for abusing these children which is likely why this entire document was classified as secret to prevent any further interference from law enforcement. He literally outlines exactly what they did, then includes the reports that he knows that members are CIA agents and Finders is likely funded by the CIA.

I want to address specifically this mysterious disc at the end of this report, I would assume this disc was seized during the raids in D.C. contains information from the CIA . It was likely confiscated  from the CIA to be distributed by their agent  in Findings, this would explain where all the evidence they seized actually went. . Whatever agent they were protecting accidentally gave to a "Source" of the MPD, who returned it to their office ironically. If you read between the lines here the MPD knew full well that the CIA not only covered for these guys but gave them back all the evidence they collected from their headquarters. That they turned it over to the FBI was just a giant fuck you to the CIA. I wish we knew what was on that disc.

This is just the first part, investigations of the MPD. I will cover the Florida investigations next.


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## heathercho (Oct 28, 2019)

Metokur did a stream and watched the main documentary





Also, a playlist that someone has made has a few more, they're interesting





						- YouTube
					






					www.youtube.com


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## saralovesjuicyfruit (Oct 28, 2019)

Spergichu said:


> Wait, weren't the Finders active in Peltzer, SC? I don't remember there being anything about them in DC?



The Pelzer, SC stuff was part of an ARG. Whether there’s anything to this supposed connection or not, I haven’t seen anything that would indicate that, and I did spend time looking at it. The Finders had property in DC, one which was investigated and found to contain a lot of computer equipment that was pretty advanced for the time. Here is a 1987 Washington Post article about that.


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## I am my own judge (Oct 28, 2019)

What's the endgame behind all the the child sex trafficing: money, pleasures, power trip ,the thrill of doing something forbidden ?
I'm not sure if I get why was this spewt under the rug this forcefully?


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## heathercho (Oct 28, 2019)

I am my own judge said:


> What's the endgame behind all the the child sex trafficing: money, pleasures, power trip ,the thrill of doing something forbidden ?
> I'm not sure if I get why was this spewt under the rug this forcefully?



It depends on how "crazy" you want to go.

The Finders are CIA connected. That's fact. Epstein's Pedo Island was fact. It's likely some of the "Satanic Daycare Abuse" things were fact.

The FBI had to hold back information in the McMartin Preschool case. The Police were told to BTFO on the Finders case by the CIA. Epstein first got a slap on the wrist and then did a 360 no rope "suicide".

Why the Satanic shit? Why the "loaning" them out? Is it all sex related? I doubt it. The Finders were used for "disinformation" according to the FBI. What type of disinformation? Are they being used in false flags or psy ops?
Are they like the children used in the MKUltra experiments or the Kinsey sex studies? Or are they being used in shit like Sandy Hook?
Why does anyone who looks into this stuff (Issac Kappy, Tracy Twyman, Judy Johnson etc) end up dead?

I think it's important to consider at the time when it was all happening though, they couldn't have released it without public outcry. Aside from the mere curiosity of it, the MSM and people in general today, seem pretty blase about all this information coming out. They didn't care too much about Epstein, they certainly don't give a shit about this. Everyone is raging about Trump, they legit don't care about this information. They could literally release "JFK KILLED BY CIA" and people would shrug atm and continue on about Orange Man Bad.


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## Spl00gies (Oct 28, 2019)

I swear, if I hear 'redacted' one more time... The files without redactions aren't exactly hard to find.


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## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 28, 2019)

skullomania said:


> I swear, if I hear 'redacted' one more time... The files without redactions aren't exactly hard to find.


Can you post them then?


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## Spl00gies (Oct 28, 2019)

skullomania said:


> Handy dandy US Customs Service Report of Investigation on the Finders, just so happens to contain a bunch of redacted names.
> 
> Also found a google drive link to the police reports without redacted information Finders Police Reports
> 
> ...





Ellesse_warrior said:


> Can you post them then?



Back a page or two, links to archived reports without the redactions. You should be able to easily view/download either.


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## tim cook official (Oct 28, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> Ok so I read about half the report and here's what I can extrapolate. I will attempt to fill information but will label REDACTED so you know it's my conjecture.
> 
> 4/3/92 CIA handwritten letter to FBI
> -----------------------------------
> ...



And why? The CIA doesn't need to traffic children for money. The repo man isn't coming. No forwarding address.

Something as mundane as a system of control seems parallel but incorrect, and needing this degree of effort to fuck kids is discountable. Designing the universe just to create a paperclip. A document like the Gateway Project (previously linked in this thread) is impossible to conceptualize - imagine the vast machinery required; not only the capital behind a clandestine organization needed to produce a paycheck for the agent but an entire cosmology and world necessary to conceptualize the shape and form of the universe.

Similarly, the Finders cannot exist without a depth. A guiding and maybe incidental process. Why the ritual, the sacrifices? To account an international child-trafficking group as merely deranged or pedophilic is poor (I am not accusing @*Perspicacity *of having done that). You don't dress up in robes and have children castrate a goat because it gets a real estate mogul in Shenzhen or Riyadh hard. Or to make them better placed as eventual assets. They could be moulded without these accouterments. 

Did the Finders find what they were seeking?

I don't think so. Remember that multiple children are now grown and exist as lesser, variable qlippoth of an abandoned design.


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## Where Do You Find Them? (Oct 28, 2019)

The CIA admitted/downplayed their involvement with the finders. "CIA made one contact and admitted to owning the Finders organization as a front for a domestic computer training operation, but that it had gone bad."

When journalists interviewed the CEO of the company that was officially training the CIA guys he claimed that the only connection to the finders was that unbeknownst to them one of their accountants was a finder and he was immediately fired. This doesn't exactly mesh well with the CIA statement, or their other claim that their only involvement was one former CIA member coincidentally became a finder shortly after leaving the CIA.

There's evidence to suggest they were still operating in 2003. https://web.archive.org/web/20030207104005/http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=257 Notice that the name of the author is very similar to the name of one of the "mothers" who came forwards and the subjects surname, Pettie, was the name of their leader. The article was also written around the time that Pettie died. https://web.archive.org/web/20191028123912/https://rehold.com/Culpeper+VA/MACOY+AVE/409 suggests that the house was owned by them, but I'm not sure if that's actual title records. Also note it's Culpeper Virginia, the town they tried to take over.



I am my own judge said:


> What's the endgame behind all the the child sex trafficing: money, pleasures, power trip ,the thrill of doing something forbidden ?
> I'm not sure if I get why was this spewt under the rug this forcefully?


Pleasure is where it all starts. Rich assholes who aren't used to hearing no want coke fueled parties where they get to diddle a few kids, just having a bit of fun you know? Look at how many hollywood (i.e. rich but not that powerful) types have been caught in the past few decades, not to mention everyone who took a quick flight on Epstein's plane. It's endemic. They got money and power to throw around and so they get what they want and they don't get caught. It's great business for the CIA. Lots of cash involved and lots of tasty blackmail material. 

Well, that's one side anyway. The finders were clearly at the procurement end of the chain. I'm almost certain at least some of their kids ended up at those parties, but others could have ended up in whatever MKUltra, deep state, super soldier, alien hybrid business you think goes on.

However, just because they were at the procurement end doesn't mean there was no abuse happening there either. They'll have probably required it of their "in the know" members for similar reasons to gang initiations. Ain't no turning back after you've done something like that. 



skullomania said:


> The files without redactions aren't exactly hard to find.


Afaik no non-redacted version of the FBI report is public. 

Wild speculation time: 
Marion Pettie is either told by the CIA to go start a cult around 1971 or recruited because he already has started one. They have no particular purpose in mind at this point (i.e. sleepers) but a cult is always a useful thing to have.

Cults generally have layers of inner and outer circles. A lot of the interviews with ex-members will have been from further out circles. They describe a pretty typical cult where the leader, in response to the death of a member, decided to get the women to have as many children as possible that would be raised communally by the cult, including deliberately "weaning" them from their mothers at an early age, in order to ensure the cult's future. They then didn't look after those kids that well, viewing it as a chore. 

I'm not so sure he was being honest about his reasons, I think the CIA asked for it. Within a few years, he created an environment where it's easy for a few van loads of kids to go missing without anyone noticing. The kids are routinely neglected which provides a nice medium circle to normalize the actions of the inner circle and the only people looking out for specific kids, the mothers, don't expect to see them anyway. The vast majority of the members won't have been aware of any abuse and most of the kids will have simply grown up into new members rather than been sold off. Gotta make sure you keep enough stock to breed the next generation after all.

Everything is running real smooth for a decade or so until they decide to induct Ammerman and Houlihan into their inner circle. They give them 6 kids (ordered from the catalogue of photos that were found in a raid) to take to Mexico but first they have them take them to the farm to do the initiation ritual that involves the usual weird shit and cumulates in their "blood in" child abuse (note that only the 8 people in that van were in the "satanic" photos and only 2 were abused, one with presumably recent bite marks). 

Ammerman and Houlihan turn out to be truly exceptional and take the kids to the park. They get pinched. It hits the news and shit hits the fan. The finders rush to clean up. They evacuate all the kids from their main location in DC, send in their best "mothers" to get back the potential witnesses that the FBI already has. The CIA cuts ties with them, they have more eggs in more baskets and these guys aren't worth the attention. The cult goes on but they keep their noses relatively clean. 

Maybe anyway, maybe they were worth the attention. It's not like the CIA has actually been raked over the coals for this. Or maybe it was something else entirely, this is just speculation. What isn't is the catalogue of their kids naked, the two confirmed cases of abuse, the order from the Chinese embassy and the CIA involvement. Something very fishy was going on.


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## Perspicacity (Oct 28, 2019)

tim cook official said:


> Similarly, the Finders cannot exist without a depth. A guiding and maybe incidental process. Why the ritual, the sacrifices? To account an international child-trafficking group as merely deranged or pedophilic is poor (I am not accusing @*Perspicacity *of having done that). You don't dress up in robes and have children castrate a goat because it gets a real estate mogul in Shenzhen or Riyadh hard. Or to make them better placed as eventual assets. They could be moulded without these accouterments.


I don't believe this was a pedophile ring, I don't believe they were satanists either. You read ritual sacrifice, I read that this children were being trained to kill and maim from a young age. The photos described are the children dissecting a male and female goat piece by piece. Mysticism has been used since the dawn of time to mask actual science and keep people ignorant. Satanist rituals are a great way to brainwash people and program them. These ritual sacrifices and mutilations are a great way to show the children how to kill and also desensitize them to blood and empathy. In actuality it's a great cover for a black op programming toddlers and young children, what these children were being programmed for I have no idea. Given the advanced computer equipment that they were lugging around in that van alone, I would have to say that they were definitely being supplied and funded by the CIA. These children wherever they are, are likely still assets of the CIA. As far as I can tell there are at least 5 people with links to the CIA in Finders.

Does anyone know where to find an non-redacted version of the MPD report?


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## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 28, 2019)

I found these short videos of Ted Gunderson speaking about the two pages in those documents referring to the McMartin case. 

In the first video he goes through the documents and in the second video he goes through the images relating to those pages which were not included in this file. 


Spoiler: VIDEOS







Your browser is not able to display this video.








Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## AnOminous (Oct 28, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> I don't believe this was a pedophile ring, I don't believe they were satanists either. You read ritual sacrifice, I read that this children were being trained to kill and maim from a young age.



And these kind of projects do that by completely breaking someone.  Sexual abuse is one crude but effective way to do that, and most of these groups do just that, much like the Family ("Children of God") of David Berg, another organization that glowed hard.


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## Pina Colada (Oct 28, 2019)

_Absolutely horrifying_. I don't know what's scarier- the MSM being more concerned with correct pronouns and other libtard bullshit, or the very people who look out for our country's safety doing such vile acts behind closed doors. May they receive the death penalty.


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## Spastic Colon (Oct 28, 2019)

I can actually believe that there is an occult angle to a lot of what they are doing.  I know it is hard to believe that successful people could be into that kind of stuff, but some of them are.  Just look at Jack Parsons (the guy who founded JPL) and his interest in Thelema and his attempt to do rituals called the Babylon working.  Even some smart people can get involved in some crazy shit.


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## No Exit (Oct 28, 2019)

Spastic Colon said:


> I can actually believe that there is an occult angle to a lot of what they are doing.  I know it is hard to believe that successful people could be into that kind of stuff, but some of them are.  Just look at Jack Parsons (the guy who founded JPL) and his interest in Thelema and his attempt to do rituals called the Babylon working.  Even some smart people can get involved in some crazy shit.


I agree. There's also groups like Scientology, where maybe not everyone believes it but one or two powerful people who do can act on it if they want. Or to be that guy, think of how many rich, powerful fundamentalist Jews there are. Or just powerful religious people in general. Then put them above 99% of the population and anything they believe about their religion becomes correct to them due to how much "greater/smarter/whatever" more than the masses they are. The ego these people may have coupled with whatever entitlement and paranoia that comes with the territory of being one of the most powerful people on the planet, I can believe they'd believe just about anything.

My biggest question for this though is what's going on behind the scenes that's caused the FBI to release this? This coming out so close to Epstein's death just sounds like shadow politics and power struggles.


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## Autocrat (Oct 28, 2019)

Spastic Colon said:


> I can actually believe that there is an occult angle to a lot of what they are doing.  I know it is hard to believe that successful people could be into that kind of stuff, but some of them are.  Just look at Jack Parsons (the guy who founded JPL) and his interest in Thelema and his attempt to do rituals called the Babylon working.  Even some smart people can get involved in some crazy shit.







Not necessarily occult, but Mark Zuckerberg apparently has a fascination with Augustus Cesar. He also named his daughter August. 
I looked into Libra just because I was curious about the naming of his crypto stablecoin.
>The sign of Libra is symbolized by the scales and is associated with the Roman deity _Iustitia_ 
>The origin of Lady Justice was Iustitia, the goddess of Justice within Roman mythology. Iustitia was introduced by emperor Augustus

I thought that was interesting. Plenty of people are fascinated with historical and mythological personifications of power, and these people are probably very represented in the highly successful, who in turn have the means to organize weird shit. When asked about Bohemian Grove, Bill Clinton said 'isn't that where the republicans gather together and get naked? They're probably more happy than you' (the guy asking the question was an accusatory conspiracy theorist). Alex Jones also infiltrated Bohemian Grove on video and they do indeed have some weird shit going on there. 

Maybe there's something to it? Maybe it's more of a boomer thing that is no longer popular among the elite? Maybe the elite are still doing it and it's just some random shit? Who knows.


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## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 28, 2019)

I found a list of sources for finders info on reddit








						r/conspiracy - The Finders Cult - A large collection of information covering the Finders and closely related topics
					

369 votes and 43 comments so far on Reddit




					www.reddit.com
				




I took a look at the linked articles from EIR and found this

Linking the finders to the Franklin cover up. It came from these articles in the attached pdf. (They're short, 1-2 pages each). former FBI chief Bill Colby (who drowned under mysterious circumstances after) point to these pedo rings being linked to project monarch (MK ultra).


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## Perspicacity (Oct 28, 2019)

Tallahassee Responding Officer Reports 2/4/87
---------------------------------------------

*Suspect #1 Douglas Edward Ammerman (28 yo)
Well dressed suit, jacket, tie. Should be noted men are exact same weight (150), height (5'9), and hair color (brown). 
States they are teachers enroute to Mexico to take children to set up school for brilliant children. States parent are in Washington D.C. Becomes highly evasive when asked more questions. 

Suspect # 2 John Doe/Michael J. Houlihan/James Michael Holwell (28 yo)
Well dressed coat and tie. Should be noted men are exact same weight (150), height (5'9), and hair color (brown). Stays silent the entire time refusing to answer any questions. When told he was arrested man purposely falls down face first on ground pretending to faint (officer wasn't buying it). He refuses to speak or comply with officers, becomes rigid on ground. Is picked up by officers and placed in patrol car. Has no valid form of ID.*

Children (The younger children appear to have code names)
All found on a playground in Myers Park. All are found incredibly dirty, extremely hungry, no underwear, mis-matched socks, and covered in bug bites. Had only been fed raw fruit and vegetables. Children state they saw their mothers before Christmas, they also state "they have no Chirstmas" then stated they don't see their mothers much as they are being "weaned from their mothers". Children don't go to school, say two men teach them games and how to read. State if they work they get food as a reward.  Claim adults have to do what "Game Caller" tells them. Claim to eat only raw vegetables and fruit, last ate an orange that morning.

*Mary Errico Houlihan 6 yo (oldest)
States doesn't know if last name is Errico or Houlihan. States Michael J. Houlihan is her father to police, states John Paul Pope is her brother and is also 2 years old. She goes on to state who all the other children are. Gives the address in Washington D.C. and phone number. States family is in DC. States "they were just going different places"  and says they've been staying at camp grounds in the van or in tents. *

Max Livingston 6 yo
Also provided most of the information in children section, unspecificed as to what.

Ben Franklin 4 yo

Honey Bee 3 yo (f)

John Paul Pope 2 yo

Bee Bee 2 yo (m)

Property Report/Search of Van 2/4/87
------------------------------------
Things of note

Various clothing, blankets, sheets, and foodstuffs.
1 pack of condoms
*200 rolls of stamps 
20 compact floppy discs
$16 in quarters*
Books + Pamphlets + Office supplies
*Doug Ammeran's Passport
Minolta camera flash
AIWA Micro Cassette Recorder w/ tape
Brown bag containing various photos of children, some nude*
Ammerman's personal papers
*TRS 80 Computer Keyboard
Chinese to English Dictionary*
2 radios

TPD Report 2/4/87
------------------

Interview with Mary 2/4/78

States father is Michael and mother is Paula Arico, states John Paul is brother. Gives same home address in D.C. and phone number. States trip is to have younger children "weaned" from mothers, left around Christmas.

Mary states Mr. Pettie told the adults to put children in the van. Mary states kids are not allowed to go inside house of "W" street because the "game caller"  said they couldn't. *Identifies "game caller" as Marion Pettie*. States they communicate with *Mr. Pettie using a TRS-80 *in the van, and were instructed what to do. Investigator doesn't understand, Mary stays they were "different". States they have a man on the roof, the game caller, who tells them what to do. They read bulletin boards and write on notepads.

They would also go to peoples houses and babysit.
First identifies* Doug Ammerman as "Kenny Rogers", also calls him "Earnest Angel"*
Became evasion and uncomfortable when asked about sexual abuse, denied any "bad touches"
Spoke of a fight between Grandma and Kristen in a big house for children.

Interview with Max & Mary 2/4/87

*Max identifies mother as Pat Livingston.*
*Max has a poor understanding of the concepts of time*.
*Max doesn't seem to know what many things in the office are including a stapler and typewriter.*
Max describes a game where they take off the *mens cloths, putting them on, and searching their clothes for money. Clarified later as their jackets.*
Max + Mary describe another game where they *take a shirt with holes in it, run away with it, then tear it up.*
Max + Mary describe the woman coming downstairs nude at Christmastime, they thought it was funny and a game.
*Mary sees van registration on investigators pad identifies it as "the warehouse"*
Other happenings 2/4/87

Other children too small to interview, none of the children were potty trained. They either deficated/urinated on the floor or in their clothes. Wanted to go outside to use the bathroom.

Suspect #1 Douglas Edward Ammerman Aliases Kenny Rogers, Earnest Angel (28 yo)
Attempted to interview only responded by asking what the charges are and refused to speak further.

*Suspect # 2 John Doe/Michael J. Houlihan/James Michael Holwell (28 yo)
Laid on floor and jerked body, refused to open eyes or interact with investigators in any way.*

"W" street phone number called. State it has a "weird" message on the answering machine hook-up. (Likely code words to go into hiding). Later stated to be some kind of bible verse but never elaborated on further in the reports.


----------



## SmileyTimeDayCare (Oct 28, 2019)

@Stasi You don't say? The media isn't going to give a lot of attention to either their complicity in CIA child trafficking or their incompetence in failing to uncover CIA child trafficking? It also wouldn't do for them to change course at this point you know since they've spent the last three years telling us the FBI and CIA are beyond reproach every other day. My question is why the fuck did the document get released?

Moving on:



heathercho said:


> The McMartin Preschool case was insane.
> The original mother-accuser, Judy Johnson, just so happened to "die" before the prelim hearing was finished.
> She was "mentally ill" and an "alcoholic". It's always so amazing how in so many of these case, people just drop dead.
> The tunnels were confirmed at the time by an archeologist, yet you had people handwaiving that away.
> ...



The McMartin issue was a real fucking mess. I often reference it as an example of the prosecution and their _experts_ blowing up a case. Now I almost wonder if it was intentional. That map being in these files make me wonder if the McMartins were part of the CIA's little grooming factory OR if the McMartins were targeted to cover up the Finders Op OR if the McMartins were being used to create such a disaster that people would dismiss legitimate claims with the false ones.

One of the key reasons the McMartin case went the way it did was people found out how the children were interviewed. When you see adults leading kids to saying they were being molested it gets very difficult to keep reasonable doubt out of the picture and that most definitely went on here.

This video does a fair job of explaining the techniques I'm referencing. You could get those kids to admit they shot JFK if you were given enough sessions:


----------



## Spastic Colon (Oct 28, 2019)

SmileyTimeDayCare said:


> @Stasi You don't say? The media isn't going to give a lot of attention to either their complicity in CIA child trafficking or their incompetence in failing to uncover CIA child trafficking? It also wouldn't do for them to change course at this point you know since they've spent the last three years telling us the FBI and CIA are beyond reproach every other day. My question is why the fuck did the document get released?
> 
> Moving on:
> 
> ...


True, but that doesn't discount the fact that there was some medical evidence that showed genital and anal scarring.  In fact, one of the parents became suspicious when her child came home with rectal bleeding.  Not every victim who came forward was a child, either.  There were some in their teens and early twenties, but they weren't allowed to testify because the statute of limitations had run out.  It also doesn't explain the existence of those tunnels.

There's no doubt the prosecution majorly screwed up.  Whether they did it deliberately or out of sheer incompetence is something we will probably never know.


----------



## Perspicacity (Oct 28, 2019)

Contiued TPD Investigation 2/5/87
---------------------------------

*Max and Mary believed to be sexually abused after being examined.*
*John Paul is discovered to have bite marks but unsure if adult or child bite marks.*
*"The Ballad of Ballads" references warehouse, a house in the mountains, Miami, Hawaii, San Diego, and China. Ballad of Ballads direct reference to Song of Songs or Song of Solomon. I will explore aspects of this later.*
*Discs are programs not data bases.*
Raids on warehouse/"W" house begins.
MPD investigator communicates findings to TPD investigator.

*Large amount of computer goods seized*
Hot tub
Sauna
*Large tv room*
*Library of books including mind control, child rearing,, etc.*
*Satellite disc of roof*
*Various stage-like settings of rooms that were roped off*
Van identified as being made in Canada.

Contiued TPD Investigation 2/6/87
---------------------------------

Suspect #1 Douglas Edward Ammerman Aliases Kenny Rogers, Earnest Angel (26 yo)

David Ammerman contacts investigation, claims to be suspects brother. Describes brother as being a loner. Claims Doug Ammerman s*howed up at parents house in Gainesville 2 weeks ago with a young boy named B.B. Tells parents B.B. is his son. Told them he was heading to Miami.*

Provides letter with two pieces of paper to investigation

*Handwritten by Stuart Silverstone that Doug Ammerman was enroute to China via Hawaii. Letterhead of GUNG-HO TRADERS.*
Other paper addressed to his mother, graphically describes Ammerman's genitals and thanks her for having such a stud for a son. Signed *"wives of the Gung-ho".* Dated 5/19/86
Ammerman refuses to speak to anyone.

*Suspect # 2 James Michael Holwell/Michael J. Houlihan(28 yo)
(Now referred to as Holwell, no longer a Joe Doe) *
Holwell finally speaks but only gives basic information. Asks about the status of the children, asks if a doctor had examined the children. Was told the children were in protective custody and not in need of any immediate medical attention. Requests attorney by the name of Steve Usdin.  Attorney answers phone and says Steve Usdin is not attorney but worked for him, he doesn't not recognize the name Finders. Says he will try to contact Steve Usdin. Says members of the group worked for him in doing research in the past.

Holwell's father contacts investigation.

Contiued TPD Investigation 2/7/87
---------------------------------

*Bomb threat telephoned to the Tree House (Mary, Honey Bee, John Paul there). It's evacuated and checked. Children moved back with increased plain clothed security.

Grandfather of Ben Franklin* (4 yo) calls in and said the child actually name was *Gaylon Knauth*. Claims mother is *Kristen Knauth (likely the Kristen brought up by Mary)* , last seen 5 years ago in Gainesville at a womans support cooperative. Met other women Judy and *Paula (likely Mary's mother), *stayed for two says only to fee*l "very well manipulated" Admitted he knew very little about his daughters life after leaving. *Visited D.C. residence a year ago, no answer first day. Second day he was let in but was given no information about Kristen. Kristen sends a letter stating she was in *Miami. *Claims father has been talking to her husband. Claims Kristen and Paula were kicked out of his ex-wifes house for squatting. (Explaining Mary's earlier story)

Corty Knauth gets in contact with MPD and then TPD. Claims to be the grandmother of Ben Franklin. Claims daughter joined the cult in D.C. two years ago. Describes other children including Honeybee (3 yo). Claims to not know where daughter is. MPD confirms mail was found for *Kristin Knauth and Paula Arico* addressed to Miami was found during raid.

Ammerman identified by local woman as a farmhand. Saw Ammerman with 10 children. Children were staying in a watermelon field.

Individual named Desmond puts out ad for an odd job. Unidentified individual answers ad on 2/4/87. Says he wants no pay but wants his children to be able to bath in Desmond's apartment. Individual states he's in transit from D.C to Mexico. *Stranger leaves 2/4 and returns 2/6 to work again. Requests check be made out to Stan Berns. (Stated this is Ben's father)

Suspect # 2 John Doe/Michael J. Houlihan/James Michael Holwell (28 yo) MPD* identfied as James Michael Holwell. Holwell was employed by Kelly Temporary Services and had recently been *working with the* *US Department of Agriculture in Washington. Also relays found bulletin board message that the "group in Tallahasse has been caught, we are scared and hiding".  

Max makes a statement to the foster parents he's living with after seeing house he recognized on the news. States children are made to sleep outside but moms sleep in the house. Mr. Pettie makes them sleep outside. Men come and visit moms and also sleep inside.*

*Describes Pettie as a fat, white man, white haired, beard, and mustache, with glasses. *
*Pettie owns Steve.*
*Pettie made moms work wearing lots of jewelry and lipstick*
*Only Pettie has a car*
*States everything belonged to Mr. Reagan*
Children name parents
Honeybee- Mother: Judy Evans Father: Tom Vandose
Mary and John Paul- Mother: *Paula Arrico Father: Michael Houlihan*
Max- Mother: Pat Livingston *Father: Stanley Berns*
Ben- Mother: Christan Franklin Father: Allen Shoen
B.B.- Mother: Caroyln Saie, Father: Jeffrey Vbose

Medical examination for sexual assault


Spoiler: Hard to read



Max lacks sphincter control consistent with sodomy.
Mary is missing the right half of her hymen, orifice appears enlarged consistent was penetration of some kind.
John Paul has bite marks on his arm that are roughly a week old. Unknown if child or adult in origin.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 28, 2019)

Alright first my little take and I'll share some weird shit i found to add to the pile of other weird shit. The McMartin preschool is something I deeply remember and a major source of contention were those tunnels, I remember there was some crazy lady I knew back then that I thought was some conspiracy wing nut but she spoke alot about this case and of highly organized sex trafficking rings run by Intelligence agencies...after seeing this shit, I'm starting to think she was ahead of her time.

So this got me thinking. Of course we jave this _newer_ info, but what about all those wing nuts who may have been pretty good investigators/journalists a bit ahead of their times, what about the info that was shared awhile back before FBI confirmed.

I did some rooting around and found a weird site that I guess does reviews for alternative living/ "spiritual communities" and what did I find, our ole buddy finders

Website





						The Finders - SpiritualTeachers.org
					

The Finders were a relatively obscure spiritual group based in Washington, D.C. I was originally led to them by John Wren-Lewis.




					www.spiritualteachers.org
				




Archive

http://archive.md/sER8d
Here is the text without the comments (though two comments I will focus on in a minute and you'll see why)


Spoiler



The Finders were a relatively obscure spiritual group based in Washington, D.C. I was originally led to them when I asked John Wren-Lewis‘ (archive: http://archive.md/2cjne ) opinion on spiritual groups worth visiting in the United States. The Finders originated in the early 1970s (known as The Seekers in those days) under the direction of Marion Pettie. A search of the web turned up a handful of reports that Pettie and The Finders were a front for CIA operations, plus some suspicions of child abuse and pornography — all and all, not very encouraging.
I called the phone number given by Wren-Lewis and got an answering machine message. What I heard was a rambling, non-sensical message interspersed with electronic tones. Apparently, it was a coded message. I left my name and number and mentioned Wren-Lewis as my referral. As soon as I mentioned Wren-Lewis, someone picked up the phone.
The Finder I spoke with was a pleasant enough fellow, just rather vague. He said people came to the group for various reasons, such as needing work, and that they traveled all over the world on business. Pettie was not a guru, but he did organize things. When I asked if Pettie was enlightened, he said Pettie predicted his date of “entrance into knowledge” to be 2004. I was invited to stop by their location in D.C. “Go inside, ring the gong, and someone will let you in.” Yeah, sure thing buddy, and I’ll probably never be seen again, either.
By this point, I just wanted off the phone. Needless to say, I didn’t take The Finders up on their invitation to visit. I don’t know what they are up to, but there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. My theory is that Pettie iss a rogue CIA agent who infiltrated the guru movement of the 1970s. Eventually, he convinced himself he really was a guru. Now, he and his students travel the world as spies for hire. It would make a good movie, wouldn’t it?
If anyone out there has the inside scoop on The Finders, please let me know. I found their secrecy worrisome and do not recommend them. One of these days, I’m going to ask John Wren-Lewis why he recommended them to me.
*2004 Update:* I heard from John Wren-Lewis that Pettie truly predicted his date of “entrance into knowledge.” He said Pettie died in June 2004. I found a newspaper article, though, that says Pettie died in 2003.
*2016 Update:* As near as I can tell, The Finders are finished. Whatever was left of the group dispersed with Pettie’s death.
If you insist on investigating this strangeness for your self, here are a few links, updated as of 2016:
An interview with Marion Pettie (archive:
http://archive.md/szzIV )

Finders Keepers (can't get newer archive for some reason so this is outdated by two years http://archive.md/U5pIG )

A Free thinkers haven ( archive: http://archive.md/PXkQa )
*Related Posts*

John Wren-Lewis: the Skeptics mystic (archive: http://archive.md/2cjne)
John Wren-Lewis lent a fresh perspective to contemporary spirituality because, for many years, he viewed…
John de Ruiter  (archive: http://archive.md/QHgMv )
"Another wonderful spiritual teacher of extremely high integrity and great impact."-Quote from the web about…






Author ShawnPosted onAugust 19, 2016Categories1 Star



So this brings me to some unintentional comedy in the comment section:


And the only reply:

Oof there BullshitBuster looks like our lady Jas here might have been on to something with her good ole bud Ted after all

So this brings me to the links she shared. The first one looks like it was ripped off a site and I have no clue what the fuck I wrong with it, it is barely legible but is LOOONG and appears to have possible unredacted names and who knows maybe even some juicy years old Doxes or something



			Full text of "The CIA "Finders" File"
		


She linked an archive but I took an archive of the archive...just in case 

http://archive.md/sO7oW
(I downloaded the files on this site but can't figure how to upload or archive might be ninja'd already)






						The Finders cult
					

Joseph Lloyd made this request to Federal Bureau of Investigation of the United States of America.




					www.muckrock.com
				




http://archive.md/7E96I
Happy Hunting's Kiwi Spooks

Edit: FUCKING BROOO Ted Gunderson was on this shit and no one would help his ass, this makes home boys cynaide poisoning story seem more legit

Quotes taken from archived document in Jas' post


> filed Formal complaints on six occasions with the FBI
> demanding an investigation of the FINDERS and the international
> trafficking of children who have been kidnapped or obtained
> through subterfuge (orphanages; and on occasion the agency
> known as the Child Protective Services) but the FBI refused to contact me.



What In the fuck!

Edit 2:




Ted Gunderson was a national fucking treasure


----------



## Ebonic Tutor (Oct 28, 2019)

Imperialist #348 said:


> so does this mean that pizzagaters were right but got the wrong place?



PG 52 mentions a group in DC in possession of maps to the tunnels under DC that they shouldn't have had access to.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 28, 2019)

Stranger Neighbors said:


> Alright first my little take and I'll share some weird shit i found to add to the pile of other weird shit. The McMartin preschool is something I deeply remember and a major source of contention were those tunnels, I remember there was some crazy lady I knew back then that I thought was some conspiracy wing nut but she spoke alot about this case and of highly organized sex trafficking rings run by Intelligence agencies...after seeing this shit, I'm starting to think she was ahead of her time.
> 
> So this got me thinking. Of course we jave this _newer_ info, but what about all those wing nuts who may have been pretty good investigators/journalists a bit ahead of their times, what about the info that was shared awhile back before FBI confirmed.
> 
> ...


That archive looks more like it was Gunderson's notes for one of his talks than an unredacted file. The introduction about the numbers of missing children, the tips for keeping children safe and examples of missing children cases is why I think this  but I don't doubt that his information was legitimate. 
Here's some pieces that stick out 

From the investigation of the warehouse:


Spoiler: QUOTE



'Further inspection of the premises disclosed numerous files 
relating to' activities of the organization in different pacts 
of the world. Locations I observed are as follows: London, 
Germany, the Bahamas, Japan, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Africa, Costa 
Rica, and •Europe." There was also a file identified as 

'project" name. The ?rojects_ appearing to-be operated for _ 
commercial purposes under front names foe the Finders. There 
was' one file entitled -pentagon Break-In," and others which 
referred to members operating in foreign countries. Not 
observed by me but related by an HPD officer, were intelligence 
files on orivate families not related to the Finders. The 
process undertaken appears to have been a systmatic response to 
local newspaper advertisements for babysitters, tutors, etc. A 
member of the Finders would respond' and gather as much 
information as possible about the habits, identity, occupation, 
etc of the family. The use to which this information was to 
be put is still unknown. There was also a large amount oE data 
collected on various child care organizations. '


After the paragraph where he states he filed 6 complaints with the FBI:


Spoiler: QUOTE



't have received two complaints from airline employees that 
airplane! containing several hundred children were flown to 
Paris , France from Denver Colorado and Los Angeles 
California. Two hundred and ten children were reportedly on 
the manifest of the Denver plane. In addition Paul Bonacci 
Sid me about children who were auctioned off in the early 
?980's outside Las Vegas , Nevada and Toronto, Canada. These 
^h 8 iLren U were auctioned off in their und ^-^njjter on 
a card around their necks, some for $50,000. each (see tne 
Franklin Cover up Investigation) .'



Holy shit!


----------



## Perspicacity (Oct 28, 2019)

Group interview MPD, TPD, HRS with Mary 2/8/87
---------------------------------

Just gonna bullet these


*Asked who "the boss" was Mary names Mr. Pettie*
Mary recounts story of her mother Paula getting in trouble for taking them out to a restaurant.
Mary reluctantly answers questions about games they played on W street
Says they played in a porch closet
*Stated they put on black clothes and made monster noises and she was scared sometimes*
Said she was also scared when she went into the basement with no lights on
*Mary states she knows a Mr. Lucky who has lots of medicine (FBI states this Ronald Alleman ex-Green Beret)*
*Mary talks about staying at in Virginia saying there were goats and cats. She states she ate the goats and the "cats went away".*
*Mary describes the trip as D.C. to Virginia to Kentucky to Gainesville to Tallahassee. *
*Mary again describes the game where they rip up the holey shirts.*
Investigators are concerned that house on W street has a mysterious hole dug into the wall. *Mary describes the basement as 4 separate rooms. One for food (hole is located in this room). One for tools. One for laundry. and later says that the last room is for "junk". The whole in the wall is used to "store things that aren't used".

The FBI took a TRS-80 Micro-computer from the van. Contained one message that was copied by the TPD.

A part-time TPD employee and F.S.U student brought in another TRS-80. Stating he found it outside a phone booth on 2/5/87. Stated he figured out how to work it and found messages that had of the names of the TPD investigators and therefore brought it to the TPD. Messages sent via phones lines to a central computer system where member of the group exchange messages. It seems they were waiting for messages back from the group in Tallahassee. One message asks why they haven't responded. Another message says the men were in arrested in Tallahassee. TRS-80 was left by a seperate group (likely Stanley Berns group).

Suspect # 2 John Doe/Michael J. Houlihan/James Michael Holwell (28 yo)
Had two Miranda rights forms one indicating his name is Holwell one indicating his name is Houlihan. One of the forms began " I have something to hide" the other began "I have nothing to hide". *

Mother of one of the children call, discussed possibility of meeting with investigators when they reached Tallahassee. Were concerned about the new blitz portraying them as a satanic cult. Wanted to be assured that that would be treated fairly. They were assured they would be.

TPD contiuned investigation 2/9/87
----------------------------------

*Culpeper Virginia PD contact TPD 
Lt. of Culpeper communicates with investigator of TPD communicates he learned from a past investigation that Steve Berns was from Ocala, FL. He also stated that he was familar with the Finders cult Pettie and had a contact inside the cult. He was told that Pettie put out a message for members to flee and hide. He goes on to state that Pettie would probably go to Andrews Air Force Base and get a military plane flight to China. *

TPD continued investigation 2/10/87
-----------------------------------
*It now becomes apparent to me that huge pieces of the investigation are still being withheld. I can find no hand drawn map or records of some of things they start to talk about here. I will continue to search for this info. *

Mary interviewed again and shown various pictures.


Identifies Hill House. (Nethers, Virginia farm where the goats were)
Identifies "High Fields". (Refers to Ammerman as Kenny Rogers as building some structure) Refers to hand drawn map, this area is labeled OP.
Identifies an area "the white cabin" (Also present on hand drawn map)
Describes a place called red cabin where Marion Pettie, Jeff Iboise, Ranee Yynn, and Bob Meyers stay.
Identifies a place called "paradise" as where the children camp and play. It's located on a trail that leads from the white cabin.
"Camp Core" is identified as a place Mr. Lucky has a big fireplace and well.


Mary was allowed to listen to a tape of a phone call to the National Center for Exploited Children. On the tape an anonymous male caller gave information on the children to the operator. Mary was extremely interested and stated it sounded like *Stuart Silverstone. State Stuart "covers the phones" *at the W street address.
*Mary stated that the reason why Ammerman and Michael won't talk is because they were instructed to by Mr. Pettie.*
*Mary also demonstrated the ability to count to 10 in Chinese from a Chinese man who "guested" at the W street house.*

TPD contiuned investigation 2/11/87

Mothers call and say they are heading to Tallahassee.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 28, 2019)

Ellesse_warrior said:


> SNIP
> Holy shit!


HOLYSHIT INDEED!
I'm not sure If the person wants to be credited/named but a Kiwi hero told me that what i posted Is actually Gundersons book


Spoiler: Pdf






			https://www.worldwidetargeting.com/uploads/1/2/5/9/125930484/ted_gunderson_-_the_finders_report.pdf
		






I found something else an old blog of some tripped out person who's talking about this, had to find it using the wayback machine though



Spoiler: GeminiWalker



THE FINDERS
geminiwalk_ink (c)2002 all rights reserved

On February 7th of 1987, the _Washington Post_ ran an interesting story that did not at first seem to have any particularly national significance. The article concerned a case of possible kidnapping and child abuse, and material discovered in the Washington area that they say points to a 1960s style commune called the Finders, described in a court document as a "cult" that conducted "brainwashing" and used children "in rituals." DC police who searched the Northeast Washington warehouse linked to the group removed large plastic bags filled with color slides, photographs and photographic contact sheets. Some showed naked children involved in what appeared to be "cult rituals," bloodletting ceremonies of animals and one photograph of a child in chains.
Customs officials said their links to the DC area led authorities into a far-reaching investigation that includes The Finders -- a group of about 40 people that court documents allege is led by a man named Marion Pettie -- and their various homes, including the duplex apartment in Glover Park, the Northeast Washington warehouse and a 90 acre farm in rural Madison County, VA.

It was the _US News and World Report_ that would ultimately provide the follow-up to the Finders story, noting that there is a certain Customs Service memorandum that was written at the time of the original investigation, written by Ramon J. Martinez, Special Agent, United States Customs Service, describing two adult white males and six minor children ages 7 years to 2 years. The adult males were Michael Houlihan and Douglas Ammerman, both of Washington, DC who had been arrested the previous day on charges of child abuse.The children were covered with insect bites, were very dirty, most of the children were not wearing underpants and all of the children had not been bathed in many days. The men were somewhat evasive under questioning and stated only that they were the children's _teachers_ and were en route to _Mexico_ to establish a school for brilliant children. The children were unaware of the functions of telephones, television and toilets, and stated that they were not allowed to live indoors and were only given food as a reward.

A Detective Bradley had initiated an investigation on the two addresses provided by the Tallahassee Police Department during December of 1986. An informant had given him information regarding the cult, known as the "Finders," operating various businesses out of a warehouse located at 1307 4th Street, N.E., and were supposed to be housing children at 3918/3920 W St., N.W.

The information was specific in describing "blood rituals" and sexual orgies involving children, and an as yet unsolved murder in which the Finders might be involved.

Cursory examination of documents revealed detailed instructions for optaining children for unspecified purposes. The instructions included the impregnation of female members of the community, purchasing children, trading and kidnapping. There were telex messages using MCI account numbers between a computer terminal believed to be in the same room, and others located across the country and in foreign locations.

There were pictures of nude children and adult Finders, as well as evidence of high-tech money transfers. There was a file called "Pentagon Break-in," and references to activities in Moscow, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia, North Vietnam, North Korea, Africa, London, Germany, "Europe" and the Bahamas.

There was also a file labeled "Palestinian."

One such telex specifically ordered the purchase of two children in Hong Kong to be arranged through a contact in the Chinese Embassy there. Other documents identified interests in high-tech transfers to the United Kingdom, numerous properties under the control of the Finders, a keen interest in _terrorism_, explosives, and the evasion of law enforcement.

There was also a set of instructions that appeared to broadcast via computer an advisory to the participants to keep the children moving through different jurisdictions and instructions on how to avoid police detection.

A photo album contained a series of photos of adults and children dressed in white sheets participating in a blood ritual. The ritual centered around the execution of at least two goats. The photos portrayed the execution, disembowelment, skinning and dismemberment of the goats at the hands of the children. This included the removal of the testes of a male goat, the discovery of a female goat's "womb" and the "baby goats" inside the womb, and the presentation of the goat's head to one of the children.

There was also a large amount of data collected on various child care organizations.

The warehouse contained a large library, two kitchens, a sauna, hot tub and a 'video room.' The video room seemed to be set up as an indoctrination center. The organization had the ability to produce its own videos. There appeared to be training areas for the children and what appeared to be an altar set up in a residential area of the warehouse. Many jars of urine and feces were located in this area.

Group leader Marion Pettie spoke in an interview in Steamshovel Press in 1998, noting that in World War II he kept house maintly to intelligence people in Washington and OSS people passing through.

Official US Customs investigation reports which have been completely authenticated by the investigating officers who wrote them and by a well respected investigator who personally knows these Customs officials are irrefutable evidence that:



A case of obvious child neglect/abuse involving child pedophile sexual abuse/child pornography/Satanic cult ritualistic abuse wherein the perpetrators were caught directly in the act by law enforcement, arrested on the basis of irrefutable evidence at the scene, and faced serious charges which typically bring sentences of decades in prison.
Search warrants were obtained for the "Finders" cult office in Washington, DC and a complete search was enacted by law enforcement which provided irrefutable pictures, movies and documents of such abuse/neglect evidence and access to the confidential arrest reports on the "Finders" cult from the arrests in Tallahassee which occurred only a day earlier (suggesting very high level connections to US intelligence in and of itself.)
All investigation of the "Finders" cult by the FBI, US Customs and local law enforcement _was ordered stopped by the US Justice Department_ on the grounds of "national security" and the matter of the "Finders" cult was turned over to the Central Intelligence Agency as an "internal security matter," since the "Finders" is and has been a domestic and international covert operation of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Any and all investigation of the "Finders" was immediately stopped, all evidence was supressed and denied, and the abused children were released back to the adult perpetrators who had been arrested "in the act" and the CIA resumed its ongoing covert operation of the "Finders" cult which is used to procure and produce.


The story of the Finders cult is the story of the development of child/assets to be used to entrap politicians, diplomats; corporate and law enforcement officials; to sell child/victims to wealthy perverts to raise money for covert operations, to train some of the child/victims to be professional operatives and assassins of a totally cold, multiple personality, mind control nature.

To date only one media outlet has dared publish anything about this (US News).

In the last few years there have been more "smoking guns" proving that US intelligence agencies traffic in children, sell them and abuse them. Some of these covert operations have been tied to long term and massive importation, and distribution of narcotics into the US by the same iintelligence agencies.


A cool thing here is that they drop some addresses (maybe ninja'd not sure)


> A Detective Bradley had initiated an investigation on the two addresses provided by the Tallahassee Police Department during December of 1986. An informant had given him information regarding the cult, known as the "Finders," operating various businesses out of a warehouse located at 1307 4th Street, N.E., and were supposed to be housing children at 3918/3920 W St., N.W.





			The Finders
		


http://archive.md/2gy8X
Will continue to dig

Edit: what do you wanna bet this is one of the warehouses listed, it's ambiguous on what Gemini wrote but that address lines up perfect in *Washington D Fuckin C *








						FOR LEASE: 1307 4th St NE DC Union Market warehouse - Industrious Realty
					

Two floors in the heart of Union Market. Perfect warehouse/retail/flex space for lease.




					www.industriousrealty.com
				




Archive: http://archive.md/tis1H

Edit 2:
*3920 West St NW
Washington, DC 20007*








						3920 West St NW, Washington, DC 20007
					

(MRIS) 3200 sq. ft. multi-family (2-4 unit) located at 3920 West St NW, Washington, DC 20007 sold for $1,350,000 on Mar 1, 2017. MLS# DC9874227.




					www.redfin.com
				




*3918 W St NW #3
Washington, DC 20007*









						3918 W St NW #3, Washington, DC 20007 | MLS# 1000273566 | Redfin
					

2 beds, 2 baths, 964 sq. ft. condo located at 3918 W St NW #3, Washington, DC 20007 sold for $600,000 on Apr 23, 2018. MLS# 1000273566.



					www.redfin.com


----------



## SmileyTimeDayCare (Oct 28, 2019)

Spastic Colon said:


> True, but that doesn't discount the fact that there was some medical evidence that showed genital and anal scarring.  In fact, one of the parents became suspicious when her child came home with rectal bleeding.  Not every victim who came forward was a child, either.  There were some in their teens and early twenties, but they weren't allowed to testify because the statute of limitations had run out.  It also doesn't explain the existence of those tunnels.
> 
> There's no doubt the prosecution majorly screwed up.  Whether they did it deliberately or out of sheer incompetence is something we will probably never know.



I wasn't trying to discount any of that evidence. I mostly wanted to paint a picture of why what happened with the case happened. It feels very off after reading this document. What better way to silence all the voices demanding answers for the scattered reports of child abuse and strange rituals that you are behind than setting up a trial that you've built to fall apart so you can feed your assets in the MSM juicy bits and they can show that it was all a dream! The public forgets all about it and you can clean up the mess or at least move it.

_Puts on tin foil hat _Or at least that is what I would have said before I read that document.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 28, 2019)

Stranger Neighbors said:


> HOLYSHIT INDEED!
> I'm not sure I the person wants to be credited/named but a Kiwi hero told me that what i posted I actually Gunderson book
> 
> 
> ...


I googled this address 3918/3920 W St., N.W. and some weird stuff happened. 

Autofilled 3918/3920 w st. n.w. washington dc 20001. 

This house shows up: 


On the actual search image page a whole load of finders stuff pops up to so I'm guessing someone has already linked this house to them


But the page wouldn't archive (I archived Google search homepages for a different thread during the week and they showed up the same as what was on my search screen). This is what archived when I tried to archive the page from the second screenshot








						3918/3920 w st. n.w. washington dc 20001 - Google Search
					

archived 29 Oct 2019 00:04:57 UTC




					archive.ph


----------



## tim cook official (Oct 28, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> I don't believe this was a pedophile ring, I don't believe they were satanists either. You read ritual sacrifice, I read that this children were being trained to kill and maim from a young age. The photos described are the children dissecting a male and female goat piece by piece. Mysticism has been used since the dawn of time to mask actual science and keep people ignorant. Satanist rituals are a great way to brainwash people and program them. These ritual sacrifices and mutilations are a great way to show the children how to kill and also desensitize them to blood and empathy. In actuality it's a great cover for a black op programming toddlers and young children, what these children were being programmed for I have no idea. Given the advanced computer equipment that they were lugging around in that van alone, I would have to say that they were definitely being supplied and funded by the CIA. These children wherever they are, are likely still assets of the CIA. As far as I can tell there are at least 5 people with links to the CIA in Finders.
> 
> Does anyone know where to find an non-redacted version of the MPD report?



There are elements of segmentation here vis-à-vis exposure to ritual and sexual abuse. But this kind of CV is hardly necessary in CIA wetwork. A major in overthrowing Latin American governments with a minor in Satanic Ritualism?

And, unfortunately, your best bet for access to unredacted reports is to attend a job fair at your local Ivy League and approach a recruiting officer. Someone was kind enough to link the United States Customs Service report on this story which contains multiple paragraphs otherwise redacted as well as personal information and passport ID for involved parties. Outside of of obtaining access to a cracked LexisNexis account that may be where the trail ends.

RE: the acquisition and training of children, here follows a massive schizo-post.

The CIA was in a period of recovery during its covert actions in foreign countries. The CIA, in attempting to perform higher level informatic attacks, in conjunction with developments in noosphere adventurism by civilian parties within the time period, actively engaged in research on higher consciousnesses. The Gateway Project I referenced is the clearest example. A manifest which explicitly describes - with no safety measures or guidance - the potential contact of intelligences which reside in a sort of blank space outside the Planck-length. Idea-forms which can be interacted with through intense meditation or lifelong indoctrination.

We're hardly going to find an indictment of the CIA in this text. The CIA recruited children into a cult? Possibly the least harmful thing this organization has done. 

I think the CIA may have made contact. And a small department immediately dedicated itself to intense segmentation as to avoid eventual exposure and to train children. Please consider the departmental entropy and funding issues which have to be overcome - difficult to conceptualize if you've never been part of a major corporation. You need both reason and purpose; the idea of "train abducted or brainwashed children to assassinate someone" is a very, very hard sell. You could always convince a foreign asset with a much shorter carrot//stick. 

So alternative methods had to be devised which require alternative goals. The CIA made contact with the occult idea of an egregore. An informatic demiurge, matching their use of Satanic Ritual (or Ritual in general) necessary to introduce a terrestrial party to the intelligence. 

The value of a cult asset is overstated, especially within the domestic United States. Thought-forms have evolved within the country which no longer support such a crude method. Hence why I believe the method has been abandoned alongside the assets, outside their value as easily directed parties. The entire thing has gone to ground.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Oct 28, 2019)

I think that something is definitely going on here with the Finders and their ties to the CIA. I still don't that think the wider Satanic Panic of the 1980's and 1990's was tied to this directly and was mostly bunk, although I would not be surprised if the McMartin case had some ties to it, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

If I was more tinfoil-inclined, I'd say that the McMartin case was a setup by whichever CIA agents were involved with the Finders to help dispel any potential blow back from the Tallahassee incident, sort of a false flag.

But in all seriousness, I'm not sure if the CIA would be able to pull that off without making the whole thing glow brighter than Dennis Rodman in a plutonium reactor.

I'd wager that the McMartin case was a lucky break for the Finders and their glow-in-the-dark patrons in Langley. It was a clusterfuck from beginning to end and the hysterics of the Religious Right during the McMartin investigations tainted any accusations of occult crime by association. My best guess is that the CIA took advantage of that failure to basically get the FBI and any other law enforcement agencies to drop the Finders case.

Earlier in the thread, I mentioned that the few confirmed cases of Satanic crimes in the United States were usually sadists using Satanic imagery and ritual for the purpose of fear and intimidation. Richard Ramirez and the Chicago Rippers are the most notable examples of this, and it's possible that the Finders cult is basically the Chicago Rippers writ large. But why would the CIA and FBI be so interested in protecting a sadistic cult? What is there to gain?

I think @AnOminous and @Perspicacity both mentioned the possibility of the Finders being a front for the CIA to train potential personnel for black ops, using cult tactics to isolate them and mold their minds from a young age to be killers. The goat sacrifices would be a way to desensitize the children to the notion of killing, with the Satanism and sexual abuse being a way to break them mentally for the purposes of thought reform.

The pedophilia rings could be done as a way of weeding out the kids who weren't able to meet whatever standards the Finders had for them while making some extra money off of it via the black market.

The weirdest part about all of this is that this shit happened in 1987, with a brief follow-up investigation in 1992 that went nowhere quickly and a redacted FBI report was made available in 2014.

Why is this just now starting to get discussed online?

The whole Epstein debacle is definitely related to this in some form. The MSM has just finished memory-holing the case and then this case starts to get talked about all of a sudden while still being ignored by the MSM and the clickbait mills....


----------



## Jeffrey Epstein (Oct 28, 2019)

Do we think that the David Koresh thing was a glowing, bizarre operation as well?


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 28, 2019)

Jeffrey Epstein said:


> Do we think that the David Koresh thing was a glowing, bizarre operation as well?


Why not ask him yourself?  @Koresh


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 28, 2019)

Ellesse_warrior said:


> I googled this address 3918/3920 W St., N.W. and some weird stuff happened.
> 
> Autofilled 3918/3920 w st. n.w. washington dc 20001.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah cats been out of the bag with Boomer web sleuths for awhile now. Most of my archives were already archived some from like 2 days ago


----------



## Koresh (Oct 28, 2019)

Ellesse_warrior said:


> Why not ask him yourself?  @Koresh



Listen, the whole Mt. Carmel incident was clearly a government plot to silence people who had done nothing wrong. The whole "sex with 11 year olds" thing, the "beating children with wooden sticks and having them call only me their daddy" stuff and all that other minor shit is _completely _unrelated. 

Ahem. Anyways. 

Don't coverups like this happen frequently? I swear, most places I've lived, I heard stories about those odd folks over there who were definitely doing something fucked up with kids or guns or drugs and yet nothing ever came of it. Or some dude out of the blue takes the fall with random evidence and is killed when taken in for questioning. Maybe I've been spending too much time around conspiratards, but it makes sense that this stuff happens. Throughout history, people have climbed ranks to get power in order to safely indulge in their depravities. Just look at the Nazis and the Catholic Church back when it reigned supreme. No reason it'd be any different now. Maybe they were always scum and that's why they sought power, or maybe they turned into sick pedofucks because of power.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Oct 28, 2019)

Koresh said:


> Listen, the whole Mt. Carmel incident was clearly a government plot to silence people who had done nothing wrong. The whole "sex with 11 year olds" thing, the "beating children with wooden sticks and having them call only me their daddy" stuff and all that other minor shit is _completely _unrelated.
> 
> Ahem. Anyways.
> 
> Don't coverups like this happen frequently? I swear, most places I've lived, I heard stories about those odd folks over there who were definitely doing something fucked up with kids or guns or drugs and yet nothing ever came of it. Or some dude out of the blue takes the fall with random evidence and is killed when taken in for questioning. Maybe I've been spending too much time around conspiratards, but it makes sense that this stuff happens. Throughout history, people have climbed ranks to get power in order to safely indulge in their depravities. Just look at the Nazis and the Catholic Church back when it reigned supreme. No reason it'd be any different now. Maybe they were always scum and that's why they sought power, or maybe they turned into sick pedofucks because of power.



Given the whole trope of the pedophile priest and the sheer number of sick fucks in high positions of authority in both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, I would not be surprised if that were the case.


----------



## Ralph Barnhardt (Oct 28, 2019)

I've read through this thread and I didn't see anyone ask what I think is the real question:

Why release this and why now?

I'll level with you all, I'm 50-50 on whether any of this is actually legit.  I'm fairly certain that no one here trusts anything a glow in the dark has to say.  I'm so jaded at this point that I even question the validity of this whole report.  Granted, I know there's other things to corroborate this which is why I'm 50-50.  It's also possible that I can't, or refuse to, grasp the full scope of this.  If we're to believe that this all happened as stated, and it may very well be, then I have to ask again why release this and why now?  There's no real happening happening that I'm aware of to distract the masses.  As best as I can tell it doesn't lead back to Trump in any way so that kinda deflates any coup plans.  Did someone at the FBI just got fed up with the goings on and released it in a last act of defiance?  

What happened in the docs already happened and we cannot change that.  Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the players involved with this are more or less out of the game?  The silence around this is deafening and I don't know if that's because the media's to wrapped up getting rid of Trump, they don't care about a story 30 odd years old, or they're implicated in some way. I'll repeat myself this last time because I'm so baffled by it:

Why release this and why now?


----------



## Jeffrey Epstein (Oct 28, 2019)

Also, these and other related events further support that many people of power or wealth think of children, or certain parts of the population as property, tools, cattle, disposable, organ donors, or all of the above.  So, the thought process of engineering and cultivating children, molding them from the start to be what you require is just another day to these people to obtain a desired result. (why wouldn't you think that every major government develops kinds of super soldiers or agents?)


----------



## W00K #17 (Oct 28, 2019)

Supposedly this is a book written by a longtime former member.









						The Gamecaller- Tobe Terrell : Tobe Terrell : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
					

The Gamecaller- a unique name for a unique occupation given by aunique character himself. M.D. Pettie was the gamecaller, callinggames for a group of...



					archive.org
				




Apologies if already posted.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 28, 2019)

W00K #17 said:


> Supposedly this is a book written by a longtime former member.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The author says his name is Tobe Terrell
And describes himself as one of this guy's "players" maybe he is a Finder as well?


Spoiler: Tobe Terrell
















						Zen Hostel Offers Tranquility To Travelers And Residents
					

Gainesville's Zen Hostel offers spiritual and physical refuge for travelers and residents during its busiest months.




					www.wuft.org
				




http://archive.md/OXSXD
This "Zen Hostel" appears to be shut down now










						The Zen Hostel -  Reviews - Hostelz.com
					






					www.hostelz.com
				




http://archive.md/xWOe5


----------



## Spastic Colon (Oct 28, 2019)

If you've never seen the documentary "Boys For Sale", you should check it out.  Most of the people buying kids are wealthy, well connected, well respected individuals (judges, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.).  They do it for the power trip, sadism, but also because it is "exotic".  Your average pedo has to molest kids he knows in real life which carries a risk of getting caught.  Wealthy people can afford to buy kids (even back in '81 when this documentary was made -- it was $400 and up a night and required a credit card which wasn't as common back then) and there is little likelihood of them reporting or telling anyone.  And if they threatened to do so, it is easy to make them disappear.

I don't know if this is the greatest copy of it, but it is available on archive.org:  Boys For Sale Documentary


----------



## LatinasAreTheFuture (Oct 28, 2019)

Easterling said:


> Welcome to real /x/ hours, tune in next week for sex tulpas.


You guys are really spooking me the fuck out. If I have nightmares tonight I’m blaming all of you


----------



## Perspicacity (Oct 28, 2019)

tim cook official said:


> I think the CIA may have made contact. And a small department immediately dedicated itself to intense segmentation as to avoid eventual exposure and to train children. Please consider the departmental entropy and funding issues which have to be overcome - difficult to conceptualize if you've never been part of a major corporation. You need both reason and purpose; the idea of "train abducted or brainwashed children to assassinate someone" is a very, very hard sell. You could always convince a foreign asset with a much shorter carrot//stick.


I'm currently formulating multiple theories as to what exactly this was. The last 5 pages of the final TPD report is highly suspicious. Actually there are a number of glaring consistencies across the TPD reports that could be for multiple reasons.... incompetence, miscommunication, withholding some of the report, tampering, CIA interference, etc. The most glaring being the evidence collected. Basically all of the evidence disappeared. There multiple references to a hand drawn map, catalogs of pictures, messages, letters, paperwork, none of it described despite references parts of reports it's supposed to be in. Basically what I'm saying is the TPD reports start to become highly suspect after the first 3 days.

The MPD reports are complete, surprisingly thorough, and concise. That in his summary he would so boldly attack the CIA for obstruction does give me pause however. It seems whoever this detective was he had multiple dealings with CIA obstruction. He seems to also heavily imply that the CIA made all the evidence disappear and redistributed at least part of the evidence back to Finders. This is implied with a disc, it seems Finders was directly involved in corporate espionage for the CIA, like through low level intelligence gathering.  Now this is mostly speculative. It seems evidence from that was collected (a disc) somehow made it back through an informant in London for the MPD. He surrendered to the FBI Counter-intelligence stating, "we have not been appraised of the results of the analysis, nor do we expect to be". He also implies that even though the children will were placed back with their "mothers", he intends to address the situation in the Family Division, Superior Court. I would be curious to see if there were any cases pursued as far as the well being of these children since documents for minors are usually sealed I'm unsure if we can ever find out. Either way the report is scathing of both the FBI and CIA.

There are a few people who immediately started to make this glow in dark. That and the inquiries in 1993 are so redacted I can't even say with a 1/5 chance that I can fill in the blanks with any accuracy. It's confirmed that Finders were involved in low level espionage such as fake leaks and gathering information.

Mr. Lucky aka Ronald Alleman ex-Green Bere*t* The FBI seems to know exactly who he is and his involvement with the Finders.  "Has lots of medicine"
Stuart Silverstone (seems to have connections to the CIA, leaves his TRS-80 at a pay phone which mysteriously falls in a TPD officers hands, suspicious call to National Center for Exploited Children unfortunately no transcript.) Somehow able to identify all detectives investigating the case,
Isabelle Pettie (Confirmed CIA agent from 52-61 allegedly deceased at the time)
Marion Pettie/ "Game Caller" Traveling to prohibited countries, seems his connections are well known in Culpeper. (seemingly in the employ of the CIA)
Michael J. Houlihan/James Michael Holwell  (Worked for the Department of Agriculture as well as technology firms in DC, has mysterious Miranda papers with his two identities says I have something to hide, I have nothing to hide. Never verifies which is which unfortunately) He literally plays dead when he's told they are going to be arrested
Doug Ammerman/"Kenny Rogers"/"Earnest Angel" (Myserious letter to parents that he's going to China from Hawaii, drew mysterious map, possible architect?)
REDACTED ex-member- Allegely former NSA, CIA, "other government agencies"
REDACTED ex-member- Former CIA

I am 95% sure the name redacted here is Marion Pettie.



The question is are they talking about him here or someone else...... having read the report I would say they are. However the way this was formatted really confused me. Why would this be first?




As far as the children go, I have no doubts that this was some kind of bizarre experiment likely black op. The children were definitely researched and cataloged, this research was seized during the raids, it then went missing ala the CIA. Also the young girl Mary that was being interviewed seemed incredibly bright and revealed some highly disturbing things. I'm gonna mull a lot of this over and come back to it in a few days. 

*Also there seems to be a lot of connections to China and the Finders as well.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 28, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> The MPD reports are complete and surprising thorough and concise. That in his summary he would so boldly attack the CIA for obstruction does give me pause however. It seems whoever this detective was he had multiple dealings with CIA obstruction.



It seems like he knew this shit was going to happen and he resented it and wanted to make sure at least something came out of his work.  For whatever reason he wasn't willing to go full "crazy" like Ted Gunderson.  He probably anticipated at least his report being public at some point but the evidence itself probably being destroyed by that time.


----------



## ElAbominacion (Oct 29, 2019)

I probably should add that the CIA frequently uses U.S. Government departments as covers and fronts for their agents.

Like, say, the 'U.S. Department of Agriculture'. And USAID.


----------



## XYZpdq (Oct 29, 2019)

Trash 80s? Jesus this really is horrifying!


----------



## tim cook official (Oct 29, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> I don't believe this was a pedophile ring, I don't believe they were satanists either. You read ritual sacrifice, I read that this children were being trained to kill and maim from a young age. The photos described are the children dissecting a male and female goat piece by piece. Mysticism has been used since the dawn of time to mask actual science and keep people ignorant. Satanist rituals are a great way to brainwash people and program them. These ritual sacrifices and mutilations are a great way to show the children how to kill and also desensitize them to blood and empathy. In actuality it's a great cover for a black op programming toddlers and young children, what these children were being programmed for I have no idea. Given the advanced computer equipment that they were lugging around in that van alone, I would have to say that they were definitely being supplied and funded by the CIA. These children wherever they are, are likely still assets of the CIA. As far as I can tell there are at least 5 people with links to the CIA in Finders.
> 
> Does anyone know where to find an non-redacted version of the MPD report?





Perspicacity said:


> I'm currently formulating multiple theories as to what exactly this was. The last 5 pages of the final TPD report is highly suspicious. Actually there are a number of glaring consistencies across the TPD reports that could be for multiple reasons.... incompetence, miscommunication, withholding some of the report, tampering, CIA interference, etc. The most glaring being the evidence collected. Basically all of the evidence disappeared. There multiple references to a hand drawn map, catalogs of pictures, messages, letters, paperwork, none of it described despite references parts of reports it's supposed to be in. Basically what I'm saying is the TPD reports start to become highly suspect after the first 3 days.
> 
> The MPD reports are complete, surprisingly thorough, and concise. That in his summary he would so boldly attack the CIA for obstruction does give me pause however. It seems whoever this detective was he had multiple dealings with CIA obstruction. He seems to also heavily imply that the CIA made all the evidence disappear and redistributed at least part of the evidence back to Finders. This is implied with a disc, it seems Finders was directly involved in corporate espionage for the CIA, like through low level intelligence gathering.  Now this is mostly speculative. It seems evidence from that was collected (a disc) somehow made it back through an informant in London for the MPD. He surrendered to the FBI Counter-intelligence stating, "we have not been appraised of the results of the analysis, nor do we expect to be". He also implies that even though the children will were placed back with their "mothers", he intends to address the situation in the Family Division, Superior Court. I would be curious to see if there were any cases pursued as far as the well being of these children since documents for minors are usually sealed I'm unsure if we can ever find out. Either way the report is scathing of both the FBI and CIA.
> 
> ...



E: deleted. thanks for the deep dive.


----------



## tampax pearl (Oct 29, 2019)

Dunno if this is related to Project Monarch or anything like that, but the goal of Monarch (supposedly, if it exists) is to traumatize the kids to the extent that their personalities fracture and they develop DID so they can be used for government operations. I have no idea if Project Monarch is real but it is a possible explanation.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 29, 2019)

tampax pearl said:


> Dunno if this is related to Project Monarch or anything like that, but the goal of Monarch (supposedly, if it exists) is to traumatize the kids to the extent that their personalities fracture and they develop DID so they can be used for government operations. I have no idea if Project Monarch is real but it is a possible explanation.



Most of the MK-ULTRA style projects intending to create some kind of "super agent" involve intense brainwashing, and children are obviously the best target.  The goal is inherently abusive and involved destroying the personality of the individual first.

One of my theories is that after the CIA got caught in MK-ULTRA and the PR was too bad to keep doing it directly, they started observing and influencing cult type organizations they were already infiltrating, since there's a legitimate excuse to keep track of such organizations and they were already engaging in such activities for their own purposes.

While they were never able to get their pure "Manchurian candidate" type of dream agent, since minds don't actually work that way, they were successful in really fucking up a lot of people badly and some of the organizations they influenced went rogue, sometimes with spectacular results.

I think the People's Temple at Jonestown may have been such an organization.


----------



## Jamila (Oct 29, 2019)

I think the artist Kim Noble, who claims to have DID, said she was part of  Project Monarch, or thinks she was, which if I recall correctly was what she said was the catalyst for her DID due to mind control experiments and child sexual abuse.



Spastic Colon said:


> I can actually believe that there is an occult angle to a lot of what they are doing.  I know it is hard to believe that successful people could be into that kind of stuff, but some of them are.  Just look at Jack Parsons (the guy who founded JPL) and his interest in Thelema and his attempt to do rituals called the Babylon working.  Even some smart people can get involved in some crazy shit.


One thing interesting to note is that L. Ron Hubbard, the creator of Scientology, was very close with Jack Parsons when he was involved with Aleister Crowley, Thelema and the related rituals including the Babalon Working. Parsons sent letters to Crowley and wrote about his relationship with Hubbard and the magick rituals they performed together. L. Ron ended up running off with Sara Northrup, who was Jack's wife's sister, who he was also having an affair with. L. Ron developed Dianetics with Sara and worked with her until he kidnapped their daughter and attempted to flee with her to Cuba. And the rest, including his harem of young girls that he employed on his ship in the Sea Org, is history that the Church of Scientology tries desperately to erase.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 29, 2019)

Paul Bonacci claimed to be part of project Monarch and suffered from multiple personality disorder. So I think there's something there. Ted gunderson and bill Colby (both former FBI) also claimed the child pedo rings were part of mk ultra. I reckon all the big pedo rings are linked and part of mk ultra (but I may have listened to one too many episodes of Coast to Coast am)


----------



## Freddy Freaker (Oct 29, 2019)

I'd say something about how horrifying this is and the poor children, but nothing fucking surprises me anymore. Project blue beam could be exposed as real tomorrow and that "god"/"aliens" were going to tell us all to immediately adopt agenda 21, abolish age of consent, and give kids free troon drugs/surgery next thursday. Wouldn't even bat an eye.

I want off this ride.


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Oct 29, 2019)

skullomania said:


> The documents relating to the underground tunnels and the floor plan description of McMartin preschool are particularly horrifying.
> 
> The wikipedia article on the Mc Martin Preschool is apparently having an edit fight over whether the tunnels exist or not.
> 
> ...


I don't know. this isn't new and being placed out of context makes me skeptical in general. pages 48-49 of this dump are from page 3 and 14 of this 194 page report from 1993, which is already referenced in this part of the wiki article. why include just 2 pages of the report, and why redact the name of a previously released, unredacted document? the tl:dr about 8 years after the original trial some parents hired an archeologist to use ground penetrating radar and check for tunnels. the archeologist made very certain claims you see listed in this doc dump, but method had an ambiguity that had others providing counterpoints.

I don't say this out of love for wiki editors. the editor locking the article is nblund, who was one of the people who got the yaniv article scrubbed. I just don't see grounds to disagree here since it isn't new. I can't speak to the rest of the documents, they seem real fucked up.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 29, 2019)

Kaede Did Nothing Wrong said:


> I don't know. this isn't new and being placed out of context makes me skeptical in general. pages 48-49 of this dump are from page 3 and 14 of this 194 page report from 1993, which is already referenced in this part of the wiki article. why include just 2 pages of the report, and why redact the name of a previously released, unredacted document?



Not to split hairs my friend but the map in the FBI file is different than in the report you referenced
The FBI one just released


Page 3 you referenced. 


There appears to be additional info on the FBI Files

Also page 49 of the FBI file


Page 14 you referenced




The pages and info seem to be from different reports not sure what it means tho


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Oct 29, 2019)

Stranger Neighbors said:


> Not to split hairs my friend but the map in the FBI file is different than in the report you referenced
> The FBI one just released
> View attachment 989525
> Page 3 you referenced.
> ...


this is the page 3 summary of the gunderson document

this is page 49 in the FBI dump

the school maps are different though, you're right about that.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 29, 2019)

Kaede Did Nothing Wrong said:


> this is the page 3 summary of the gunderson document
> View attachment 989579
> this is page 49 in the FBI dump
> View attachment 989578
> the school maps are different though, you're right about that.


This is puzzling. The map appears to also have a pen marking of an arrow. Pointing to the tunnel entrance it looks like

Why would they have this in the finders report is a good question. Either they are sending a message or it was by accident. Is there anything about the map we didn't already know?


----------



## FromaCorvairSix (Oct 29, 2019)

What if the Finders was a CIA program to raise and train a generation of future covert operatives from early childhood, and the reason that this file has dropped now is that the Barr/Durham investigation has uncovered that a few of  those kids from 1987 are now some of the CIA operatives involved in the Russia collusion setup/ attempted  deep state coup against Trump? It’s just a crazy thought that popped into my head.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 29, 2019)

Found this article:
http://archive.md/HLiRq


Possible reason why the documents were released now. I haven't seen the name Robert g Terrell come up before though.

Edit: Robert Gardner Terrell was the owner of the house the mothers were staying at. 

http://archive.md/DjPtI


----------



## ConcernedAnon (Oct 29, 2019)

saralovesjuicyfruit said:


> I dug into these people pretty deep a couple years ago. Almost all of them are on Facebook (or they were at the time) and they're mostly all friends with each other. Most of them look like Jews and the majority of them had pictures with a bunch of kids.
> 
> Edit: Here's one of them. I remember they were building some kind of farm commune thing called The Open Circle (I got an error message when I tried to archive that, if someone else wants to give it a shot go ahead). It's an offshoot of this commune started back in 1967 called the Twin Oaks Community.
> 
> ...


Looks like they have some scripts or something that detects tampering and blanks the page, but I have been able to get around this. Just note most of the buttons won't work, as I stripped out all the script elements.




Stranger Neighbors said:


> Full text of "The CIA "Finders" File"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You should be able to upload it to the site as a txt or zip file by dragging and dropping, but I've gone ahead and uploaded it and the source pdf.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 29, 2019)

ConcernedAnon said:


> Looks like they have some scripts or something that detects tampering and blanks the page, but I have been able to get around this. Just note most of the buttons won't work, as I stripped out all the script elements.
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to upload it to the site as a txt or zip file by dragging and dropping, but I've gone ahead and uploaded it and the source pdf.


I am eternal mobile fag


A supposed picture of the two Men arrested in Tallahassee





Found the picture on this Reddit post:










						r/UnresolvedMysteries - Who Will Find What The Finders Hide?
					

277 votes and 82 comments so far on Reddit




					www.reddit.com


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 29, 2019)

Finders (Cult) | Central Intelligence Agency | Father
					

Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site.




					www.scribd.com
				




There's an interview with Marian Pettite in those documents. Tl:dr finders were just a group of intellectuals living an alternative lifestyle. People came and went, his house was open to everyone, maybe some people were glowing but he didn't know. 

Following the pages with the interview is a file that starts with this and has a lot of background info on pettite. 

Chiang could be the Chinese person referenced in the documents.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 29, 2019)

Ellesse_warrior said:


> Found this article:
> http://archive.md/HLiRq
> View attachment 989996
> 
> Possible reason why the documents were released now. I haven't seen the name Robert g Terrell come up before though.



Interesting remark and interesting timing.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 29, 2019)

Robert Gardner Terrell is Tobe Terrell (the guy who wrote the game caller, posted earlier in the thread) 









						FBI releases 'Finders' files after 3 decades; Declassified investigation linked to Tallahassee child abuse case
					

The FBI released a 324-page file on the 'Finders' commune, subject of a 1987 investigation and 1993 conspiracy theory.



					www.tallahassee.com
				



(Won't archive for some reason)

This is the only recent article I've seen on the finders other than conspiracy type news sites. Contains photos of 'Robert' Terrell though


Article from 2014 about the hostel he was running. 

http://archive.md/OXSXDNo mention that he was part of a satanic pedo cult .


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Oct 29, 2019)

Ellesse_warrior said:


> Robert Gardner Terrell is Tobe Terrell (the guy who wrote the game caller, posted earlier in the thread)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Archived








						FBI releases 'Finders' files after 3 decades; Declassified investigation linked to Tallahassee child abuse case
					

The FBI released a 324-page file on the 'Finders' commune, subject of a 1987 investigation and 1993 conspiracy theory.




					web.archive.org
				




Edit: I also archived the archive
http://archive.md/5YnxL



*Edit 2: found the book! *

Robert "Tobe" Terrell wrote a book about the gamecaller leader










						The Gamecaller
					

The "Gamecaller"- a unique name for a unique occupation given by a unique character himself. M.D. Pettie was the gamecaller, "calling games" for a group of dropout professionals who roamed the world playing a series of consciousness-expanding games... Zen master... cult leader..a CIA...



					books.google.com
				



Archives:
http://archive.md/VidKO








						The Gamecaller
					

The "Gamecaller"- a unique name for a unique occupation given by a unique character himself. M.D. Pettie was the gamecaller, "calling games" for a group of dropout professionals who roamed the world playing a series of consciousness-expanding games... Zen master... cult leader..a CIA...



					web.archive.org


----------



## Male Idiot (Oct 29, 2019)

This shit glows harder than the Elephant's foot did after Chernobyl blew up. This is spooky as hell.

As to why, the most logical reason would be as many pointed out, training children to be disposable, brainwashed agents. They would be "cultists" and thus the CIA could deny any connection, and a supply of mindless, disposable assassins would make any alphabet agency drool.

They could take out targets, conveniently take a reward "happy pill" afterward and have a satan tattoo to throw off any rival agency.


----------



## Agent of Z.O.G. (Oct 29, 2019)

Every time I grow bored of Alex Jones something like this happens.


edit: weird how he didn't talk about this until a caller informed him on Monday


----------



## ⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ (Oct 29, 2019)

Male Idiot said:


> As to why, the most logical reason would be as many pointed out, training children to be disposable, brainwashed agents. They would be "cultists" and thus the CIA could deny any connection, and a supply of mindless, disposable assassins would make any alphabet agency drool.
> 
> They could take out targets, conveniently take a reward "happy pill" afterward and have a satan tattoo to throw off any rival agency.


It's also entirely possible that the children could be mainly coincidental to the plot. I mean, on the face of it, this is a group where overeducated but intelligent faggots in their mid-20s from Ivy Leagues were being tricked into being intelligence operatives for the power elites, and developing computer training programmes for their official spy organizations, under the explanation that they were playing a 'game'.

Basically, tricking unsympathetic dupes into incredibly dangerous spy operations in North Korea, while telling them that they were just playing a big game of Carmen Sandiego.

If this was their main purpose, taking the children away from their parents would just have been a way of making sure those dopey Harvard weirdos don't recognize that they shouldn't actually try to infiltrate Pyongyang, because their children will grow up without parents, by compromising their attachment to their parents. They might lose a few kids along the way, but the goal would not be child exploitation as such- it would just be the same evil that the CIA and FBI have always engaged in.

EDIT:


Ralph Barnhardt said:


> I've read through this thread and I didn't see anyone ask what I think is the real question:
> 
> Why release this and why now?


I tend to assume the reason this is released now is that someone made a specific request major enough in scope to trigger the FBI to publish it on their 'vault' site. I've been browsing through various sites that have covered this in the past and some, like this one, seem to have covered most of the significant points based on previous FOIA requests and news articles already.

I would tend to think that the most pragmatic explanation for the McMartin maps being included is that some moron employed by the FBI back in the day put the 'FINDERS' tag on it by accident, and the moron tasked with clearing these documents included it because they didn't know better. It's definately not for any QAnon esque reason- everyone who works for the FBI is a subhuman agent of evil, they are not 'trying to reveal the truth' or even engaging in a 'controlled limited hangout'. They're just stupid, lazy, and evil.

EDIT2: Another comment, in regarding the description that some commentators have made of the computer equipment that was recovered from the crew in Florida for example as being particularly sophisticated; while I don't have personal experience of that time or place, a TRS-80 ('lovingly' nicknamed the 'Trash-80') is the opposite of sophisticated. When they came to market, in 1977 (the same year as the Commodore PET and the Apple II), the base price was somewhere between a third and a half of the price of the Apple II, depending on the particular features you needed. And they only got cheaper.

Depending on what exactly they were using, I suspect they could have had a setup with a flash floppy drive for their software and a cheap modem they could interface to a payphone to dial into a private 'Finders BBS' in DC (BBS's were becoming thoroughly mainstream for computer enthusiasts by that time) to report back/get instructions for under a grand in 1986 dollars *. Unusual equipment for a regular citizen, and unfamiliar to Florida police? Absolutely. A little suspicious? Maybe. If you're a CIA-funded cult, it seems like it would be better to just eat the long-distance charges and talk on the phone, unless you're doing something suspect. But.. these guys are smart weirdos from a demographic of rich pricks, so maybe they just liked using computers.

That all assumes that the purpose of the computer was for communication with Finders HQ, which is not certain. They might just have been calling up local BBS's to call the sysop a faggot in the text chat.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 30, 2019)

Agent of Z.O.G. said:


> Every time I grow bored of Alex Jones something like this happens.
> 
> 
> edit: weird how he didn't talk about this until a caller informed him on Monday



Jones seems to be too busy sperging about trannys lately to have bothered looking into this. 






						FBI Releases Classified
					

Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!




					www.infowars.com
				




Link to the video clip. (It wouldn't download for me) 

Tl:dr he flips through some of the documents and pulls up the 1st Ted Gunderson  video I posted earlier in this thread from YouTube. He intends to do a show dedicated to it some time this week. (Looking forward to it) 

Also, Metokur is doing his part 2 finders stream tomorrow night. Happy Halloween!


----------



## Coldgrip (Oct 30, 2019)

Forgive my dumbass as I've only been skimming this thread, but a few pages back something was mentioned about the satanic panic back in the 90's and something about it being real? Was there some validity to the accusations?


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 30, 2019)

Coldgrip said:


> Forgive my dumbass as I've only been skimming this thread, but a few pages back something was mentioned about the satanic panic back in the 90's and something about it being real? Was there some validity to the accusations?


The documents refer to Satanic rituals and photos of men in robes slaughtering goats. They also contain pages from the McMartin case which had plates with pentagrams etc. listed in the evidence.


----------



## Denmark Mafia (Oct 30, 2019)

Ellesse_warrior said:


> Robert Gardner Terrell is Tobe Terrell (the guy who wrote the game caller, posted earlier in the thread)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Terrell even looks like what you would imagine your stereotypical satanist to look like. Also look at him squirm at some of those questions:








						Who Will Find What The Finders Hide? (Full Documentary)
					

The Conscious Resistance Network presents: Who Will Find What The Finders Hide? Researched, Written, and Narrated by Derrick Broze Produced and Edited by Jer...




					www.youtube.com


----------



## Perspicacity (Oct 31, 2019)

> Attempts to interview the Finders for this article were met
> with bizarre responses.  At one point the Finders reproduced my
> business card with the name of *Ronald L. Alleman*.  Complete with
> the original logo, the card stated that Alleman was the author of
> ...



From this article https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/news/article/13010819/finders-keeper
Interestingly Ronald L Alleman is our Mr. Lucky aka ex-Green Beret.  Global Press comes up with interesting results, though the current company I can't haven't seen any obvious links to the Finders yet. The book doesn't exist. If I were to guess it's some kind of allusion to Max Stirner.

I find myself wondering if this is an anagram, reference, or fart huffing. Either way I find these people repugnant.


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Oct 31, 2019)

Coldgrip said:


> Forgive my dumbass as I've only been skimming this thread, but a few pages back something was mentioned about the satanic panic back in the 90's and something about it being real? Was there some validity to the accusations?


see my comment at the top of this page. the stuff here about the mcmartin preschool isn't new. the list of evidence is from the already widely discussed report by ted gunderson. I provided a link to the whole thing, but you should also look into the criticisms people have for the claims it makes.


----------



## Perspicacity (Oct 31, 2019)

The only actual link I can find between McMartin and this Finders case is. How can convenient that a white plastic plate that had pentagrams painted on bright green paint were found. Sounds like it was meant to be incredibly visible, odd that you would be build elaborate secret underground tunnels but conveniently have that appear down there. The 100 animal bones are insignificant as far I'm concerned, 1000s of artifacts is also deliberately very vague. I would say that McMartin map is likely a red herring of sorts, it seems most people didn't make it past the map in the report so it was highly effective. I see zero connection between satanism and the Finders. The McMartin preschool also looks bullshit as far is satanism is concerned as well.

View attachment Preschool Case.jpg

I have come up with 5 of the most probable scenarios each with some variability on the minor details.

1. Finders was an alternate lifestyle organization established by the CIA in the 1960s that turned into a full fledged cult by the 70s. They experimented on it's members with a variety of methods, like as part of MKUltra and Monarch. They then used said members to collect information on political dissidents, technology industries, foreign affairs, etc. They were also used as a tool to spread false information. Members are educated anti-establishment, most aren't aware of cult's true intentions, tricked into doing things under pretense of it being a game. Children likely used as foreign sleeper agents, particularly in China, out of Hong Kong.  Finders actually leak information to media under direction of CIA, now becomes a media circus about satanic panic. When the arrests and warrants happened 1987, CIA and Counterintelligence covered up the entire affair, wiping all evidence and ending all investigations.

2. Marian Pettie is an ego maniac who gained notoriety by having a wife in CIA. People buy the hype, guy is a sick fuck. CIA linked to Finder's through his wife, who probably helped the group establish many work connections in D.C. Begins not only doing black market research on his members but also uses them to collect information for CIA (likely through Hong Kong) as well as other entities. Experimentation on members/children include mind control, diet, and drug use. Also establishes a porn and prostitution ring with adult members. Children may or may not be part of it, though it's likely that the child sexual abuse was incidental looking at the medial reports. Huge money making enterprises, all likely cash and hard to trace. Ladies are out of town likely prostituting themselves in CA, the children already treated as a burden have no caretakers. Pettie kicks kids off his compound, tells members to figure it while playing a "game", Ammerman goes to Gainesville to visit his parents, is left waiting in FL. They get caught because they act like retards in a local park. Arrests and warrant search happens. Media frenzy ensues after leakers likely see photographs seized, ex-members contact media, previous whistleblowers call,  and the story becomes about sensationalized devil worshipers doing blood rituals with white babies. CIA intervenes fearing bad press, leaked government secrets, among other things. The entire affair is covered up and handled behind the scenes.

3. Finders was an alternate lifestyle organization established by the CIA in the 1960s that turned into a full fledged cult by the 70s. Like Air America the organization acted as a CIA front to gather intelligence and transport of goods be that weapons, drugs, technologies, and even people. The Finders were preparing for a mission in China under the guise of child trafficking (real or otherwise), in trying to leave no paper trail and waiting for transport in Florida to overseas shit got botched. When the arrests and warrants happened 1987, CIA and Counterintelligence covered up the entire affair, wiping all evidence and ending all investigations.

4.  Finders were working for unknown organization/country. Finders attracts members with anti-government message, further radicalized in the cult. Organization able to infiltrate major organizations and in intelligence agencies in government. Members are educated anti-establishment but most aren't aware of cult's true intentions, tricked into doing things under pretense of it being a game. CIA probably thinks they are using Finders, Finders really using them. Collection of mass amounts of data discovered during warrant search, high ups in government flip their shit.  CIA and Counterintelligence declare risk of national security and confiscate all evidence, entire affair is deleted and lumped into satanic panic. Many members either made a deal or are sitting in a foreign prison.

5. Marian Pettie is an ego maniac who gained notoriety by having a wife in CIA. People buy the hype, guy is a sick fuck. CIA linked to Finder's through his wife, who probably helped the group establish many work connections in D.C. Shit hits the fan when the arrests happen in 1987, fearing bad press and irreparably damage to the CIA's image they cover up the whole affair, put Finders under strict supervision. I say this because Pettie openly brags about his wife's involvement for the CIA, brags about his son working for Air America, brags about being in contact with intelligence officials, thinks he's the greatest mind on earth. and is generally an obnoxious fart huffing megalomaniac. It's great that he's dead and the Finders no longer exist.


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 31, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> The only actual link I can find between McMartin and this Finders case is. How can convenient that a white plastic plate that had pentagrams painted on bright green paint were found. Sounds like it was meant to be incredibly visible, odd that you would be build elaborate secret underground tunnels but conveniently have that appear down there. The 100 animal bones are insignificant as far I'm concerned, 1000s of artifacts is also deliberately very vague. I would say that McMartin map is likely a red herring of sorts, it seems most people didn't make it past the map in the report so it was highly effective. I see zero connection between satanism and the Finders. The McMartin preschool also looks bullshit as far is satanism is concerned as well.
> 
> View attachment 992086
> 
> ...


I'm going with MK ultra CIA group used to get information/ leverage on political people and other people of interest. 
http://archive.md/mHiEo
Time for Metokurs finders stream this evening. Happy Halloween kiwis


----------



## Hawaiian Lunchmeat (Oct 31, 2019)

You guys do know the fucking Finders Cult was defended by none other than Patch "Goddam" Adams, right? So yeah, I only watched that movie once but now I can't even think about that child raping clown without getting sick to my stomach.

"Marion Pettie [is a] very intelligent, extremely well-read, a perceptive thinker
who gathered around him over-educated people who find current society, as I do,
not very interesting. They dropped out of whatever it was they were doing to play
games under Pettie's direction. The anthropological, psychological, sociological
game of life with each other. Never to my knowledge have they done drugs of any
kind. They like playing games, more in their heads than in their hearts. This is
not Scientology. I know lots of Finders who have left. We get together. We laugh
and joke about it. They're probably laughing about all this right now. Marion
Pettie is not an angel. He's not a devil. He's a regular person, unless a regular
person is someone who is bored with his job, his life and is dissatisfied with his
life. If that's the definition, then I guess he's not a regular person."
Adams concluded that "Their way of child-rearing isn't mine. Yes, they're
strange. Yes, they're maybe misguided, but there are a lot of other kinds of
neglect out there. If their children have been neglected, it wasn't meant to be
neglect. They mean to give their children enriching experiences. This could be a
lesson of survival. If you wanted to show our society it is messed up, this
certainly will do it. "











						The Finders Cult - The Franklin Files
					

The Finders Cult



					thefranklinfiles.activeboard.com


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 31, 2019)

Hawaiian Lunchmeat said:


> You guys do know the fucking Finders Cult was defended by none other than Patch "Goddam" Adams, right? So yeah, I only watched that movie once but now I can't even think about that child raping clown without getting sick to my stomach.



He isn't the only malevolent cult leader with big connections.  Jim Jones was very popular in the Democratic Party in California before he went off to Guyana, and in particular San Francisco's Democrats.






Why it's Jerry Brown!


----------



## Ellesse_warrior (Oct 31, 2019)

Found this pastebin of 4chan posts by John Brisson on 4chan https://pastebin.com/nUJvAapE (Journalist, writing a book on the finders and from a quick search he's been researching the finders for 3 years, lots of podcast appearances speaking about it). He's put in some interesting links too that he's used as part of his research, I haven't had a chance to read through everything yet though.

The things that stuck out for me were the links between the finders and the McMartin case:


Spoiler:  QUOTE



Tobe Terrell on McMartin Preschool and “Satanic Panic:”

“This is the era of the McMartin Preschool madness in Manhattan Beach, California, and many other child abuse witch-hunts that swept across America during the 1980s. Dozens of innocent people were sentenced to long jail terms, some of more than 100 years, based on stories told by children. The stories are so fantastic they could not possibly be believed. But, they were believed by juries. Most of those convicted have been released after careful study of the children’s interrogation made it clear the fantastic stories were planted in the minds of the children by the way the interrogators asked their questions. That is the fearful mindset of many Americans in 1987. Millions of dollars are spent by government agencies aimed at making people aware of child abuse. Some people see a child abuser lurking outside of every playground. No doubt, the woman who called the police in Tallahassee is proud that she did her duty as a citizen.”

Tobe Terrell in the Gamecaller mentioned that during Goatgate he left to San Diego and went to Manhattan Beach and visited McMartin as well? Why, when they are being investigated?

Dr. Nahman H. Greenberg was flown in from the Chicago area to interview the children. Greenberg charged Florida Health and Rehabilitative Services $168,000 and was offered nine contracts for his work on the Finders case for consulting to improve Florida’s response and training to handle child sexual abuse. HRS secretary Gregory L. Coler who was from Illinois was friends with Greenberg and contacted the Tallahassee police department to recommend his services in the investigation. An early champion for the defense in the McMartin Preschool case was the late Dr. Nahman H. Greenberg, a prominent psychiatric consultant on child abuse and neglect.

With a grant from the National Institute of Mental Health in 1971, Dr. Greenberg once designed a psychological profile to identify the personality characteristics of abused children. For twenty years, while still an associate professor at the University of Illinois's psychiatry department, he was director of child development in the clinical and research unit. In 1975 he founded CAUSES (Child Abuse Unit for Studies, Education, and Services) at Illinois Masonic Hospital. His office glittered with numerous honors from federal and state government agencies.

Nahman Greenberg was brought in to make sense of the McMartin children's allegations. He studied the questioning techniques of Kee MacFarlane and generally behaved as though he agreed with her findings. But in public pronouncements Greenberg later stated that MacFarlane coerced accusations of abuse from the children, goaded them into making slanderous allegations. The argument, endlessly repeated, has since cast a pall on McFarlane's credibility. His subsequent career is revealing. Dr. Greenberg's next ritual abuse case came shortly after his consultation on McMartin.


It could be a possible explanation for why the two McMartin pages were in the finders file.

Edit: more links
Links to search warrants posted on 4chan https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/231591761



			https://is2.4chan.org/pol/1572466336807.png
		



			https://is2.4chan.org/pol/1572467167864.png


----------



## Burd Turglar (Oct 31, 2019)

Don't know if anyone looked into this person mentioned earlier as I'm only on page 5 but did a quick FB look up and.....well just see for yourselves.



			https://www.facebook.com/paula.feraci
		


Here's a couple interesting snipits,


----------



## Sam Losco (Nov 1, 2019)

Crossposting from Metokur's thread...

I briefly looked into that map of tunnels under the preschool.

Wikipedia is not allowing any of this document drop onto articles about these issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:McMartin_preschool_trial#Relevance_of_Finders_Report(19/10/25)
They want news articles as sources, not FBI documents.
Concerning the preschool thing, they say that those were originally part of the document published by the archaeologist (true) and that the tunnel thing was "debunked" as being sewer lines and that all the artifacts were because the site was used a rubbish site before the preschool was built. They used ground penetrating radar and then dug in certain areas. So it doesn't appear that they actually found and explored tunnels as in they were crawling through them, as the "tunnels" had been filled. http://tedgunderson.info/index_htm_files/McMartin Scientific Report.pdf

Those couple of pages were included in the FBI document because it was info they were given, I guess, as part of their investigation.

I dunno. I skimmed through the old report and some of it seems like a stretch (the pentagram plate thing on page 58 for example), some it seems like it could be legit.


----------



## Solomon (Nov 1, 2019)

Look at this fuckin map and tell me Culpeper, Virginia isn't suspect as fuck. 
How many roads in/out of town do you need?


----------



## Hawaiian Lunchmeat (Nov 1, 2019)

Solomon said:


> Look at this fuckin map and tell me Culpeper, Virginia isn't suspect as fuck.
> How many roads in/out of town do you need?


Plus centrally located... it's really close to Charlottesville which is smack dab an hour or two from about a half a dozen HQs of alphabet agencies...

Also FYI, one of the folks who was a member of Finders was a Mary Grogan. There is a Mary Grogan who is a Ph.D and "educational consultant" and another who works as like a therapist (unless they are one and the same which I doubt because one appears to be Canuck and the other Antipodean). Both of those jobs seem liek the kind of thing that an MK-Ultra handler specializing in SRA/trauma training/sexual & psychological abuse of children to create alters might be into...






						Security Verification | LinkedIn
					






					www.linkedin.com


----------



## tampax pearl (Nov 1, 2019)

Hm. You guys know how there's the NOMAP movement? What if that was started to normalize pedophilia so people would be less likely to hold politicians accountable? Feel free to rate me as autistic, it just seems weird to me how the NOMAP movement got popularized and then the documents get leaked.


----------



## thx1138 (Nov 1, 2019)

Did I miss something or did Jim not actually read through the rest of the document last night?  I came in late, but only by like 30-40 minutes.


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Nov 1, 2019)

just remembered I have a pdf copy of a book about the franklin scandal in my wrongthink folder. very relevant if you want to know the extent of the accusations in that case.


----------



## Solomon (Nov 1, 2019)

Stranger Neighbors said:


> The author says his name is Tobe Terrell
> And describes himself as one of this guy's "players" maybe he is a Finder as well?
> 
> 
> ...



I'm in the middle of reading his book and have a few notes:

- It's not as hippy dippy as you would think

- It's still super hippy dippy 

- The 60's created a legion of retarded young adults that were perfectly moldable to the whims of charismatic leaders

_ It's actually quite a good read, this Tobe Terrell guy glows a little, but the story is believable.

-The cult is like The Manson Family but less-dysfunctional

- This guy M.D Pettie seems like a real Certified Incandescent African-American



I really suggest giving the book a read, it's quite a compelling narrative.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Nov 1, 2019)

Solomon said:


> I'm in the middle of reading his book and have a few notes:
> 
> - It's not as hippy dippy as you would think
> 
> ...


Thank you sir. The guest metokur had on his stream the second part of his finders series confirmed this dude glows in the freaking dark. He connected some dots apparently this dude used to work for the IRS and did alot of financial fuckery and moving shit around. Definitely a weirdo


----------



## Solomon (Nov 2, 2019)

Stranger Neighbors said:


> Thank you sir. The guest metokur had on his stream the second part of his finders series confirmed this dude glows in the freaking dark. He connected some dots apparently this dude used to work for the IRS and did alot of financial fuckery and moving shit around. Definitely a weirdo



The fact that M.D. Pettie had disciples with access to wealth and power isn't a unique feature of him as a cult leader. It's the fact that he straight up disappears for months at a time. That and the fact that nothing really popped off until 1987, it was a very Controlled Group.


----------



## heathercho (Nov 2, 2019)

Sam Losco said:


> Crossposting from Metokur's thread...
> 
> I briefly looked into that map of tunnels under the preschool.
> 
> ...



In regards to McMartin, the person who was responsible for pushing the "Satanic Panic" angle was Debbie Nathan.
She's quote in that Ted Gunderson report. Debbie wrote a book about the situation and was basically lauded as a hero for quelling the "hysteria" around the sex abuse cases.

Debbie Nathan is an _insane_ "feminist" leftist nutjob. The association she runs, The National Center for Reason and Justice, basically exists to defend "wrongly accused" pedos/rapists or "wrongly convicted" ones.

She has an absolutely typically perverse ideology on "consent" - there was one case in Glen Ridge, NJ, where a retarded woman had sex with a bunch of footballers. The woman was a tard who couldn't board a bus, but according to Debbie, that doesn't mean that she can't enjoy a good gang banging. She was on the side of the "rapists".

Needless to say, Debbie has written a book on Pornography, how it's great and how it has no link to criminal activity whatsoever.

She's also pro-kid sex. Children have sexual bodies too, you know. She even wrote a book on it.
She's pals with "being mad about pedos is right wing hysteria" Judith Levine. Judith Levine also co-runs the above National Center for Reason and Justice.

Overall, she's in the same league as Camille Paglia - a "feminist" woman who also says she's trans (butch dyke) but is against transgenders somehow, and is VERY pro "Man-boy love" and pedophilia.

Here's a taste of what Debbie had to say about McMartin. As you can see, Debbie doesn't give a shit about truth.
You'll also note the language Debbie uses to shut down the "hysteria". Sound familiar? Sounds identical to anyone who pushes the trooning of kids/Troons in general.



> As for the children who sat in the light, their parents have invested years believing in demonic conspiracies and underground nursery tunnels. (until recently, the parents were still digging. They came up with Indian artifacts.) They have spoken unremittingly of such things, to the world and to their sons and daughters. They have told their children, over and over again, that they were abused, then rewarded them for acting traumatized. They have put them in therapy with adult fanatics who have done the same, and enrolled them as guinea pigs in the “research” projects of zealots.
> 
> The McMartin kids, and hundreds of others in ritual abuse spin-offs across the country, have spent years trapped in clans now extended to include psychologists, social workers and prosecutors –– clans whose identity derives from a tent-revival belief in their children’s imagined victimization. Right wing devil-mongers may find the subculture to their liking, but the rest of us ought to recognize the harm it is wreaking, not only on civil liberties and the falsely accused, but also on day-care, on women’s rights, and especially on children. Because the kids involved in this hysteria have indeed suffered, but not at the hands of their teachers. And the abuse perpetrated against them by the child-protection movement gone mad are every bit as awful as the tyranny of incest.





> The McMartin School was painstakingly probed for tunnels. None were found. Neither was child pornography, nor witnesses from the traffic-filled freeways, nor any other evidence. Doctors’ findings of physical abuse were later debunked by medical researchers. Child protection experts have since criticized the prosecution’s social workers for using leading, suggestive interviewing methods that resembled brainwashing. Judy Johnson was hospitalized for psychosis in early 1985 (she later died of an alcoholism-related liver disease.) An assistant D.A., who quit the case and then helped the defense told the press over three years ago that the woman had been mentally ill when she made her first charges – information the McMartin jurors were never allowed to hear.



This is the same kind of rhetoric used when talking about troons. "Doctors can say what they LIKE about biology, but OUR medical research says they're wrong". It's all twisted double logic from these people.
Also note how she doesn't mind tearing another woman down, just because she has a mental illness. Such a feminist!

My point is that when you look at the people involved, especially in quelling the "hysteria", it's never ever as simple as just random people involved.

Evil fucks like Debbie Nathan have an agenda.

As we know now, there were tunnels at McMartin. That matters not to people like Debbie, because even if there are tunnels, so what? Sex Abuse isn't abuse, kids can consent. Pedophilia is A.OK. No harm no foul.


----------



## Hawaiian Lunchmeat (Nov 2, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> He isn't the only malevolent cult leader with big connections.  Jim Jones was very popular in the Democratic Party in California before he went off to Guyana, and in particular San Francisco's Democrats.
> 
> View attachment 992337
> 
> Why it's Jerry Brown!


Don't forget that Bundy was a well-connected Republican, Gacy (pic related, him with Jimmeh's wife Rosalyn Carter) was tight with cops and local Democrat bigwigs, Bob Berdella (hoo boy, that's a deep one, I'll have to find my McGowan and touch on that later) for some reason mentions Oliver North.

North in addition to being the guy who got away scot-free after trading guns for cocaine to the Nicaraguans during the Iran-Contra Affair. Oh, don't forget, North is a buddy of arch-Satanist and perpetual debunker of "Satanic Panic" Michael Aquino who was of course connected to Presidio. Presidio was strikingly similar to both Finders and McMartin right down to the creepy blood sacrifice rituals, robes and hidden tunnels.

But yeah, don't worry guys, pedo-apologist creep and former MRA esteemed male feminist David Fatroll of We Hungry Likea Mammoth debunked that Satanic Panic stuff. Yup in notorious pedo shielding publication Salon he wrote an article about kids probably shouldn't be believed so often. So remember: believe all wahmen, but the kids are just hysterical and lying.









						David Futrelle - Encyclopedia Dramatica
					






					encyclopediadramatica.rs


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Nov 2, 2019)

heathercho said:


> In regards to McMartin, the person who was responsible for pushing the "Satanic Panic" angle was Debbie Nathan.
> She's quote in that Ted Gunderson report. Debbie wrote a book about the situation and was basically lauded as a hero for quelling the "hysteria" around the sex abuse cases.
> 
> Debbie Nathan is an _insane_ "feminist" leftist nutjob. The association she runs, The National Center for Reason and Justice, basically exists to defend "wrongly accused" pedos/rapists or "wrongly convicted" ones.
> ...


on the subject of expert testimony, it's also worth noting that early 90's was also the time that the idea of implanted false memory was heavily promoted by media, primarily through the work of the false memory syndrome foundation. the FMSF is "a nonprofit organization founded in 1992 by Pamela and Peter Freyd, after their adult daughter Jennifer Freyd accused Peter Freyd of sexual abuse when she was a child." 

columbia journalism review noted a sudden sea change in media coverage.


			
				Columbia journalism review said:
			
		

> Rarely has such a strange and little-understood organization had such a profound effect on media coverage of such a controversial matter. A study showed that in 1991 prior to the group's foundation, of the stories about abuse in several popular press outlets "more than 80 percent of the coverage was weighted toward stories of survivors, with recovered memory taken for granted and questionable therapy virtually ignored" but that three years later "more than 80 percent of the coverage focused on false accusations, often involving supposedly false memory


whenever the topic of systematic/ritual child abuse comes up on a forum like reddit, posters rush to be the big brained one who explains how it's a been debunked by science like it's flat earth. meanwhile, there is virtually zero actual scientific literature to support any of their assertions.


			
				wikipedia said:
			
		

> The claims made by the FMSF for the incidence and prevalence of false memories have been criticized as lacking evidence and disseminating alleged inaccurate statistics about the problem.[2] Despite claiming to offer scientific evidence for the existence of FMS, the FMSF has no criteria for one of the primary features of the proposed syndrome – how to determine whether the accusation is true or false. Most of the reports by the FMSF are anecdotal, and the studies cited to support the contention that false memories can be easily created are often based on experiments that bear little resemblance to memories of actual sexual abuse. In addition, though the FMSF claims false memories are due to dubious therapeutic practices, the organization presents no data to demonstrate these practices are widespread or form an organized treatment modality.[23][24] Within the anecdotes used by the FMSF to support their contention that faulty therapy causes false memories, some include examples of people who recovered their memories outside of therapy.


imo this concept is used to gaslight kids in a formal legal process.


----------



## Thank Fuck For Evil Otto (Nov 2, 2019)

Kaede Did Nothing Wrong said:


> on the subject of expert testimony, it's also worth noting that early 90's was also the time that the idea of implanted false memory was heavily promoted by media, primarily through the work of the false memory syndrome foundation. the FMSF is "a nonprofit organization founded in 1992 by Pamela and Peter Freyd, after their adult daughter Jennifer Freyd accused Peter Freyd of sexual abuse when she was a child."
> 
> columbia journalism review noted a sudden sea change in media coverage.
> 
> ...











						If memory serves
					

After a meditation workshop, a young woman underwent therapy and related that her mother's partner had sexually abused her during her childhood. The case was closed for lack of evidence and the statute of limitations, but the partner decided to go public in order to clear his name. Some don't...




					www.haaretz.com
				





> In response, her father, a mathematics professor, and her mother, who holds a Ph.D. in education and is an expert in the storage and reconstruction of words in the memory, founded the Philadelphia-based False Memory Syndrome Foundation in 1992


The mother was an expert "in the storage and reconstruction of words in the memory". What a fascinating coincidence.






						False Memory Syndrome Foundation: Questionable Board Members
					

The FMSF has been controversial since its founding not just due to its stance on child abuse, but also for the CIA MKULTRA ties of some of its board members.



					isgp-studies.com
				





> On December 11, 1996, in [an internet posting] Dr. Peter Freyd, husband of the Executive Director of the False Memory Syndrome Foundation, wrote: Since we all want to be open about any money we might have received from military-related sources, let me confess; I too must go on record. Starting in 1988, I’ve been getting a lot of money from the U.S. Office of Naval Research.


Experts with an affinity for fucking memory were funded by military sources starting  at least 4 years prior to when they started their False Memory organization. Interesting stuff.



> FMSF former board member Ralph Underwager interview in pro-pedophilia magazine, Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia. In response to, "Is choosing paedophilia for you a responsible choice for the individual?", he said, “Certainly it is responsible. What I have been struck by as I have come to know more about and understand people who choose paedophilia is that they let themselves be too much defined by other people... rest is at the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Underwager
> 
> FMSF board member Martin Orne, M.D., Ph.D. received CIA money through MKULTRA Subproject 84 in 1958; Subproject documents indicate that he received TOP SECRET clearance from the CIA in 1960. Ross, C. M.D. (2006). The CIA doctors: Human rights violations by American psychiatrists. (Ross’s source: 15,000 CIA FOIA documents). Other source, victim congressional testimony, 1995.
> 
> FMSF former board member Louis Jolyon West, M.D. received Top Secret clearance from the CIA as the contractor on MKULTRA Subproject 43; CIA documents show that grants were given to Louis Jolyon West for studies on, “Psychophysiological Studies of Hypnosis and Suggestibility” and “Studies of Dissociative States”. Interesting note: West also treated Jack Ruby, the guy who shot Lee Harvey Oswald.



*funny sidenote: *all mentioned above are jewish - the Freyds, the board members, the organization - a kosher jubilee.


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Nov 2, 2019)

Thank Fuck For Evil Otto said:


> If memory serves
> 
> 
> After a meditation workshop, a young woman underwent therapy and related that her mother's partner had sexually abused her during her childhood. The case was closed for lack of evidence and the statute of limitations, but the partner decided to go public in order to clear his name. Some don't...
> ...


lmfao well I wasn't aware of the state funding aspect. jesus christ.

rereading that book on franklin, what striking about all this shit is how fucking cowardly people act when provided an alternative of material comfort. a few people risking their neck in a society that doesn't care just get their heads lopped off. boomers put their head in the sand and now we are royally fucked.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Nov 2, 2019)

Eh, I still think the Satanic Panic as it was espoused by the Religious Right was still a crock of bullshit.

Don't get me wrong, this Finders stuff proves that there probably was a fuckton of shady shit going down but I doubt it was the work of nefarious Satanic pagan death cults that used rock albums, Halloween costumes, Dungeons & Dragons, and slasher movies to recruit new people.

In my personal opinion, there probably were illegal government programs disguised as cults and secret societies and they likely would have used pedophile rings as a means to fund these programs alongside drug trafficking and gun running.

But the fundies shat the bed and blamed Satan for it, and a lot of innocent people got fucked over in the hysteria because a bunch of redneck Evangelical Boomers were convinced there were Satanists and witches everywhere, much like how SJW's nowadays are convinced there are evil Nazi incels lurking in every corner.

*TL;DR*-The Religious Right ruined this for everyone. SJW's rose as a backlash against them, and their idiocy during the Satanic Panic ended up being the perfect deflection to cover for actual fucked-up shit that was going on at the time.


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Nov 2, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> Eh, I still think the Satanic Panic as it was espoused by the Religious Right was still a crock of bullshit.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, this Finders stuff proves that there probably was a fuckton of shady shit going down but I doubt it was the work of nefarious Satanic pagan death cults that used rock albums, Halloween costumes, Dungeons & Dragons, and slasher movies to recruit new people.
> 
> ...


I think it was intentional that media gave press time to dipshit christians bitching about pokemon over social workers and parents with substantiated and frightening accusations of child abuse.

as counterpoint, here's one example of how social workers would hear a story like this. nobody involved is a retarded fundamentalist and the events are recorded in part by institutional paper trail.


> Kirstin Hallberg was a close friend of Kathleen Sorenson, and she’d been present
> while Eulice Washington made her initial confessions to Julie Walters about Larry
> King in March 1986. Two months later, in May 1986, Hallberg went back to work
> for Uta Halee, a residential psychiatric facility in Omaha for adolescent girls. She
> ...


we can't know more of the real truth here because law enforcement stubbornly and repeatedly resisted doing the most basic aspects of their job.

anyway I'm gonna go get some fresh air instead of spamming this thread.


----------



## heathercho (Nov 2, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> Eh, I still think the Satanic Panic as it was espoused by the Religious Right was still a crock of bullshit.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, this Finders stuff proves that there probably was a fuckton of shady shit going down but I doubt it was the work of nefarious Satanic pagan death cults that used rock albums, Halloween costumes, Dungeons & Dragons, and slasher movies to recruit new people.
> 
> ...



As I said earlier, I think that the "Satanic" aspect was constructed purposefully to muddy the waters. 
I think it's logical that they used hypnosis/deep meditation techniques on children to keep them in fear - in some cases. In the case of the Finders, I think it was a case of inducting the children into a lifestyle that doesn't value life.
It was keeping the children in a position of abuse.

But when you have pro-pedos as the opposition to children who claim pedophilia and you have a system that's covering it up, that's not really "right wing hysteria". That's a system on both sides, left and right, that have opposing values that can be easily lead in various directions.
The religious nuts _of course _are a problem but they aren't the only problem.
Debbie Nathan's reporting was the be all to end all on the matter and she's pro sexual abuse. 
Remove the Satanic narrative, which I think has no place and it doesn't change the fact that she's pro-pedo.

People are brushing off this Finders stuff as "well it was probably just an alternative lifestyle, as if the CIA were involved." or "It's debatable if sex abuse took place, therefore it doesn't matter". 
When those arguments fail, you get Debbie Nathan esque arguments of "Children are sexual beings, sex abuse isn't abuse" shit or alternatively, you get "It's all false memories".

Even when you take out the Satanic Panic aspect, which was stupid, it doesn't matter to voices like Debbie Nathan and Judith Levine. It's unfortunate that their opinion is seen as the "logical" one because it's just as motivated by agenda as the religious right. But that's how it is - Leftist voices are authorities, Right voices are hysteria.


----------



## Perspicacity (Nov 2, 2019)

Kaede Did Nothing Wrong said:


> I think it was intentional that media gave press time to dipshit christians bitching about pokemon over social workers and parents with substantiated and frightening accusations of child abuse.
> 
> as counterpoint, here's one example of how social workers would hear a story like this. nobody involved is a exceptional fundamentalist and the events are recorded in part by institutional paper trail
> we can't know more of the real truth here because law enforcement stubbornly and repeatedly resisted doing the most basic aspects of their job.



The child abuse was very obvious with this Finders stuff, the children were literally treated like animals and test subjects. The parents were guilty of serious neglect and down right abuse however I don't believe child pornography or a pedophile ring was involved here. The satanism is a very obvious red herring. When you think about this era and the whole satanic panic movement logically it becomes obvious. The CIA/US government were researching ways to control people, this much is obvious. The main goal of MKUltra was to control people in the most passive and unnoticeable ways. Their main goal and focus was of a very simple and insidious design. To control people through subtle programming to create anxiety, apathy, and fear through  a particular symbol or stimulus. When you see that pentagram, what do you feel? When they talk about this satanic ritualism, I'm sure you have a particular reaction to it. A reaction that you don't have to many other things. What I am telling you is the experiment is right there. The programming is subtly hidden right in plain sight.



heathercho said:


> As I said earlier, I think that the "Satanic" aspect was constructed purposefully to muddy the waters.
> I think it's logical that they used hypnosis/deep meditation techniques on children to keep them in fear - in some cases. In the case of the Finders, I think it was a case of inducting the children into a lifestyle that doesn't value life.
> It was keeping the children in a position of abuse.
> 
> ...


There are a ton of wild theories on this one in particular, Debbie Nathan is quite the interesting character indeed (makes for interesting reading but hardly scientific). I'm not gonna touch the pro pedophile shit, I think everyone agrees here fucking kids is wrong and reprehensible. However the false memories thing is incredibly interesting because he has in fact been proven possible to easy rewrite peoples memory as frightening as that is. Let's see there was an experiment that went wrong, a pretty benign one where it was to create an association (lets say nostalgia) for a particular stimulus. Let;s say this was all some kind of subtle programming/hypnotism that went wrong (possibly theta wave induction), the people in the experiment actually recall a childhood memory but the stimulus creates a feeling of fear not nostalgia. This is the inherit problem with inducing people in a state vulnerable to suggestion. Memory is not linear, it's actually quite fluid. Accessing data in your brain permanently edits it, in a state vulnerable to suggestion you can create memories that aren't real to begin with. People often do it to themselves, eye witnesses very often claim to see things that they couldn't possibly have seen.

The thing with the Finders kids is, it's very difficult to look at the information provided and see pedophile ring/CP ring. The children weren't cared for at all, they weren't even allowed to live inside. The medical report though scary is not damning for a few reasons. Constant diarrhea and poor to no bathroom facilities can cause a young child to become incontinent, it would explain poor sphincter control as much as penetration through sexual abuse. As far as a hymen partially missing.... well basically anything could have caused that, these poor kids were living in tents in the middle of nowhere. The sexual abuse is certainly a possibility, but really quite circumstantial. That's not to say these children weren't abused, they were obviously abused. The abuse was just horrible, who could in any kind of good conscious let these poor babies live in such conditions.... I just will never understand. These parents obviously weren't fit to take care of a rock, let alone toddlers and young children. It's sad because we see even worse abuses going on today right out in public and people do nothing. When a 5 year old boy is dressed in drag and put on a stage to strip for adult men as they throw dollar bills at him (they fucking taped it too). PEOPLE DO NOTHING. The government does NOTHING. And so when you look at this through a lens of reality, you realize that in the scope of things that it's not surprising at all. The welfare of these children was just entirely ignored. So this falls further from conspiracy and closer to reality in that regard.


----------



## AnOminous (Nov 2, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> The child abuse was very obvious with this Finders stuff, the children were literally treat like animals and test subjects. The parents were guilty of serious neglect and down right abuse however I don't believe child pornography or a pedophile ring was involved here. The satanism is a very obvious red herring. When you think about this era and the whole satanic panic movement logically it becomes obvious. The CIA/US government were researching ways to control people, this much is obvious. The main goal of MKUltra was to control people in the most passive and unnoticeable ways.



Children so out of it that they don't even recognize telephones and ordinary household objects and are half naked and filthy are not exactly noticeable and can't even be made socially palatable.  If you treat children like this and bring them out in public you will nearly immediately be arrested.  There is no way adults raised like this would turn out normal.  MK-ULTRA whatever its actual purposes was as scientific as Mengele's shit and was basically the psychiatric equivalent of it.


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## GhostButt (Nov 2, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> If you treat children like this and bring them out in public you will nearly immediately be arrested. There is no way adults raised like this would turn out normal.


Perfect time for an "autism" epidemic to be pushed in the mainstream


----------



## Hawaiian Lunchmeat (Nov 3, 2019)

Kaede Did Nothing Wrong said:


> on the subject of expert testimony, it's also worth noting that early 90's was also the time that the idea of implanted false memory was heavily promoted by media, primarily through the work of the false memory syndrome foundation. the FMSF is "a nonprofit organization founded in 1992 by Pamela and Peter Freyd, after their adult daughter Jennifer Freyd accused Peter Freyd of sexual abuse when she was a child."
> 
> columbia journalism review noted a sudden sea change in media coverage.
> 
> ...


Ralph Underwager, one of the bigwigs at False Memory Foundation has been accused for years of being a pedophile. In part due to some of the things he said when being interviewed by Paidika: the journal of pedophilia. Go fig, a guy who gets everybody convinced that a kid who is raped shouldn't be believed rapes kids. The interview transcript is below "Pedophiles can boldy and courageously affirm what they choose. They can say that what they want is the best way to find love" is just one of the smoking gun quotes. 

Kind of ironic that despite all the talk of Satanic Panic, a lot of the folks who convinced everybody the stories were bunk were fucking chomos. To be fair, I was a kid in the 80's so I know there was a panic. D&D and heavy metal doesn't make you sacrifice animals or get demon possessed, but yeah, there was definitely some organized shit going on. The fact that Finders got away for so long and when they did get busted big they were just let go shows you how easy it is for that to happen. 

I mean cripes though, look at Epstein. Dude was still banging kids while "in jail" (he only had to check into his Club Med for a few hours a day, got out for "work" apparently his "work" was fucking dozens of 8 to 15 year olds. Slightly off topic but notice how the news tries to make it sound like they were all 15 to 17 year old girls or something. That's bad enough, but if you dig you'll hear about the 8-13 year old kids like the 12 year old French twins delivered to Epstein as a "birthday present." 

Ugh, now I'm sick to my stomach and pissed. Instead of morning coffee I'm heading out to grab some beer... feels like a daydrinking day. 









						Ralph Underwager: The Paidika Interview
					

Ralph Underwager was a prolific defence expert for people accused of child sexual abuse, and helped countless abusers walk free. By the late 1980s, he had appeared in court on behalf of defendants …




					spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com


----------



## Denmark Mafia (Nov 5, 2019)

Hey look, another obvious child trafficking ring that has free reign and will be ignored:






						Today's Blind Items - Investments
					

The pedophile was attracted to them for the name they used for their fund. He loved it and wanted to be a part of it. What he was really af...




					www.crazydaysandnights.net
				






















						PEDOPHILE FOUNDATION FOUND
					

http://www.liddlekidz.com/Liddle' Bob CorkerLiddle' Adam SchiffApostrophe after LiddleMayo Clinic…. Shriners… Hmmmm.Tina Allen's Touch based therapyPDF alert - https://www.amtamassage.org/uploads/cms/documents/allen_t_autism_handout_150.pdfLiddle' Bob CorkerLiddle' Adam SchiffApostrophe after...




					zigforums.com
				



http://archive.md/6Z3Mo
There is A LOT more info in that forum thread but I'm just gonna post one screencap:


----------



## Ebonic Tutor (Nov 5, 2019)

Denmark Mafia said:


> Hey look, another obvious child trafficking ring that has free reign and will be ignored:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All of a sudden the Little Adam Schiff tweet of Trumps is looking like him pointing his finger at something.


----------



## Perspicacity (Nov 5, 2019)

Denmark Mafia said:


> Hey look, another obvious child trafficking ring that has free reign and will be ignored:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While I don't know anything about this foundation there is actually such a thing as an infant massage. I've seen it employed in NICU's as a regular course of treatment by nurses. It's been shown that infants being touched and massaged by their caregivers makes them less stressed, healthier physically, mentally, etc. It's actually been studied intensively with animals, just look up  the fucked up Harlow Monkey Experiments and the Mouse Utopia Experiments to name a few. It is quite frightening that this kind of thing may used as a front for pedophiles to get close to children however....... if that's the case this is some nightmare fuel.

Update: Never mind I remember all this now, from a long time ago. Nothing has really flagged about this organization for me besides big links to Hollywood......


----------



## bippu_as_fuck_ls400 (Nov 16, 2019)

Oh, you wacky conspiracy theorists, proclaims Vice:



*This Cult From the 80s Was Patient Zero for Epstein and Pizzagate Conspiracies*

_The FBI just released new documents about 'The Finders', which conspiracy theorists think was a CIA-linked child abuse cult. But were The Finders just misunderstood?_

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/...t-zero-for-epstein-and-pizzagate-conspiracies (http://archive.vn/rMHso)

On February 4, 1987, a woman in Tallahassee, Florida called the cops on a man playing in a park with six “unkempt” children. In doing so, she unwittingly sparked a long-lasting conspiracy theory about the government’s involvement in child sex abuse that—thanks in part to recent theories surrounding Comet Ping Pong or the Jeffery Epstein’s death—still enjoys life to this day, centered around a mysterious group called The Finders.

Late last month, after years of demand from conspiracy theorists, the FBI released over 300 pages of documents related to The Finders—a D.C.-based organization whose origins date back before WWII but didn’t become known to the general public until that phone call in Tallahassee swept them up in the Satanic Panic of the late 80s. The police reports, memos, and archival press clippings—particularly related to the arrest of two members in 1987 on misdemeanor child-abuse charges that were dropped a few weeks later—have recaptured the attention of conspiracy theorists around the Internet.

The release of the Finders documents, after years of requests, is as good a time as any to look back at an incident that set the stage for several modern child trafficking conspiracy theories. These were among the most heavily requested documents from the FBI due to the lingering, decades-old allegation that the group was some kind of front for the CIA, which led to a coverup of the Finders’ most heinous and abusive activities. Anyone looking for a smoking gun in the docs will come away disappointed. But even just the agreed-upon facts around The Finders, and the mysteries those facts create, make for a compelling yarn in their own right.

By their own account, The Finders were a kind of alternative lifestyle commune based in the Washington, D.C. area, made up of 20 adults and 7 children around the time of the 1987 arrest. Whether they’re more Manson Family or Merry Pranksters—abusive Satanists or whimsical followers of a charismatic leader named Marion Pettie—depends on how much you’d like to read between the lines on the official reports, and which side of the conspiracy theory you fall. Whether they were evil or harmless, the existence of The Finders seemed to revolve entirely around Pettie, a high-school dropout who said later in life that the group began in the 1930s, when he rented two apartments in D.C. and “opened them up for anybody that wanted to come in, and the idea in my head was that they were going to teach me something about power, money, or sex.”

Pettie, who died in 2004, eventually evolved his group so that he was giving orders, and the Finders who obeyed would be forced to experiment with their lives in unconventional ways. To _Washington City Paper _in 1996, Pettie described his life’s work as a “topsy-turvy university” where he learns from the “fools” who come and follow him. Here’s the Finders experience as described by former member Robert Terrell, who met Pettie in 1971:

“Pettie used the term ‘pressure cooker,’” he says. “The idea was to explore your own person and discover your own true nature. You can’t do that just sitting at a desk or on a couch in a routine way. You have to have some experiences, so Pettie was good at structuring experiences from which you could learn. He called himself the ‘game caller,’ and what that meant was that he’d call a game for you to do something where you’d gain experience.”

For Terrell, game playing ranged from working a temp accounting job in a downtown D.C. law firm to catching a flight to Japan on two hours’ notice to gather information on Japanese companies and report back to Pettie. It was a subculture built on whimsy and intrigue, undergirded by a sense of tribal affiliation.

The Finders eschewed private property, taught their kids through “hands-on” experience, and were essentially invisible to the outside world until Feb. 4, 1987. When police responded to the aforementioned 911 call, they found two men in their 20s with six kids aged two to seven, all six of whom were dirty, bug-bitten, underfed, and living in a smelly van, according to police reports. The men were identified as Michael Holwell and Douglas Ammerman, and their conduct when questioned, as described in a handwritten report, was certainly suspicious:

“This writer spoke to Suspect #1, who stated that he and Suspect #2 were teachers from Washington D.C., and they were enroute to Mexico with the children. Suspect #1 stated that they were going to Mexico to set up a school for brilliant children. When asked about the parents of the children, Suspect #1 became very evasive and stated that the children’s parents were in Washington D.C. Suspect #2 refused to give this writer any information, and he pretended to faint when told he was under arrest for child abuse. Suspect #2 fell face down on the ground and refused to stand up. He was carried by this writer and two other law enforcement officers and placed into a patrol vehicle.”

When an officer talked to the oldest of the children, named Mary, the answers weren’t any more reassuring:

The strange reference to “the game-caller”—Pettie—was incomprehensible to investigators, and made them believe the children may have been brainwashed. The report adds that the investigator asked Mary about sexual abuse, and “she became very evasive. She denied any ‘bad touches’ or any inappropriate behavior by the adults, became very fidgety, and wanted to end the interview.”

When Tallahassee police contacted D.C. police, the story got weirder. When D.C. police found out the Florida cops had arrested Finders, “Their response was, ‘Holy shit! We’ve been looking at these freaks!’” according to Tallahassee officer Scott Hunt in a 1988 _Washington City Paper _article reprinted in the document dump. D.C. Police believed at the time that The Finders were satanists and/or survivalists, though not necessarily criminals. Just a few months earlier in December 1986, as noted in the February search warrant, a D.C. detective found the following in the rear of the house whose address Mary had given investigators:

A clearing approximately seventy yards behind the house and several stumps surrounding the open area. Several round stones had been gathered near the circle, this practice is sometimes used in Satanic rituals, and evidence that several persons had gathered in the clearing recently. The rear of the residence is covered from the alley by heavy bamboo growth, save a small entrance to the rear yard. In the rear yard was a small very ornate gravestone propped up against the support pillar for the porch.

The timing was perfect for the national media to descend on the case. The country was in the midst of a moral panic over satanic rituals, stoked by books like the discredited bestseller _Michelle Remembers_, media-circus trials like the McMartin Preschool case, and completely unfounded worries that heavy bands pledged allegiance to the devil. (If you’re interested in this ridiculous chapter of American conservatism, I highly recommend this 1988 Geraldo Rivera NBC special, “Devil Worship: Exposing Satan's Underground.”)

Further developments in the Finders investigation only increased the hysteria. Along with personal documents and then-uncommon computers, which featured esoteric communication between members over an early version of email, a search warrant on the Finders house in D.C. found photos of children with slaughtered goats. And in Florida, a doctor’s examination of the children did not rule out sexual abuse in two of them, but didn’t confirm it either.

Somehow, this led Officer Hunt to say in a press conference that “physical examinations showed sexual abuse to one of the children.” As _City Paper_ describes in a retrospective article from 1988, the media coverage only got nuttier:

Mike Buchanan (of D.C.’s CBS affiliate), citing police sources, reported that the Finders had “worldwide connections,” used “sex and children to obtain power and money,” and had two bank accounts with over $100,000 in each one. The Glover Park residence was “a breeding house where women exercise great control.” The children in custody were “like shells, zombie-like.”

Officer Hunt of the Tallahassee PD didn’t calm anyone down. He told the _Miami Herald_, “It is our belief these kids were not kidnapped but that their parents gave them away, because one of the rites of passage into this satanic organization is that you have to give up your rights to you children, and that the leaders of this organization can do what they want to with your children.”

And he told the _Tallahassee Democrat_, “As far as we’re concerned, this goes from coast to coast and from Canada to Mexico … There is no doubt in our mind that this will have at least national, if not international, repercussions.”

But quickly, The Finders—specifically the biological mothers of the children found in Florida, who traveled to speak with investigators—gave explanations that apparently satisfied law enforcement. According to police reports, the mothers said that in late December the men in the group took the children to Kentucky, where they would work a construction job, while the women went to California for temporary work. When the men arrived for the project, however, they found that it was at a standstill, and instead told the women that they would take the children on an “adventure” to Florida.

According to the documents, the mothers understood why the police would be asking questions, and agreed that the men had handled the situation poorly by lying about Mexico. But they also insisted they had nothing to hide. They denied being Satanists—the photo of the slaughtered goat, they said, was similar to a biology class, and was part of a lesson for the children on where meat comes from. They insisted that they children were well fed, and they completely disbelieved any allegations that the men with their children could have committed sexual abuse.

These interviews seemingly convinced investigators that The Finders were abnormal, but not criminal. “Probably the two men-caretakers could have provided a better atmosphere for the children and been more open during interviewing by police at the scene,” the Tallahassee report allowed, before closing the case on a note of relative open-mindedness:

This hoopla would have all been forgotten, and certainly these documents would not have been so heavily requested from the FBI, if not for a report written by a junior Customs Service agent in 1987 that became public in 1993 and noted that the D.C. Police’s investigation of The Finders was dropped because it became “a CIA internal matter” and classified as secret. That revelation prompted a Department of Justice investigation to discover if there was some sort of cover-up at work, which found no evidence and was closed in 1994.

The CIA itself, of course, has maintained that this is a non-story, and says that there are only two connections between the organization and The Finders: Isabelle Pettie, Marion’s wife who died in 1984, was employed by the agency from 1952-1961; and in the 80s, the CIA used a company for its officers’ computer training that happened to employ members of The Finders. In the released documents, the belief that there’s some connection between the CIA and The Finders is most prominent in some April 1987 speculation from a D.C. police officer, written up in a bizarre official report:

Because of the assumption that there must be something bigger behind Marion Pettie’s band of weirdos, rumors about The Finders have outlived the group itself, which is believed to have died out with Pettie. But the most damning point against the CIA conspiracy comes from a 1993 FBI memo from their reopened investigation into the handling of the Finders case, which revealed no CIA interference in Florida when the child-abuse investigation would have been taking place.

The lingering doubt about the truth behind The Finders can maybe best be explained by the question, “Why the hell else would two men in their 20s take a bunch of kids who aren’t theirs down to Florida just to hang out and explore?” In the search for an answer, and in light of the many other conspiracies theories that implicate high government figures in sexual abuse—i.e. Pizzagate or Jeffery Epstein’s so-called suicide—The Finders become a sort of Patient Zero. If these documents had provided some kind of proof that U.S. Intelligence was covering up sexual abuse in the ’80s, the thinking in some corners of the internet goes, it wouldn’t have just shed light on an injustice from decades ago. It also would have provided much-needed support for the FBI/CIA conspiracies of today.

Of course, that the FBI’s documents don’t include a smoking gun for a CIA coverup probably isn’t going to change the minds of many conspiracy theorists. Motherboard has found many tweets and blog posts saying as much, and a page about the Finders on a conspiracy theory website notes that there is “clear evidence of suppression of an investigation into a child trafficking ring with blatantly obvious ties to US military and intelligence organizations.”

But in the absence of anything but old allegations, the theory that The Finders were somehow a part of the CIA looks more like an effort to impose some sense onto a mostly nonsensical group. Providing support for that logic is Wendell Minnick, an author and researcher of the group who said this to _City Paper _in 1996, as the group was disintegrating:

“The Finders would love you to think they’re a CIA front, but I would say they’re really nothing,” says Minnick. “You’re going to hear a lot of bullshit on the Finders, because they lie. These are dysfunctional adults, but they’re all working their asses off. They’re constantly working on some project. If you have a cult, the best way to control people is to keep them busy, to keep their minds occupied—if you have people standing around doing nothing, then they start thinking.”

You can poke holes in either side of this conspiracy theory if you set your mind to it, and maybe that’s just how Marion Pettie would have liked it. With its key figure long since passed, and the FBI's dossier now available for public consumption, it's unlikely that anyone searching for a satisfying conclusion to the saga of this strange cult will ever find it.


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## AnOminous (Nov 17, 2019)

Wow, that's a bold move.  Claim an actual case of real cult sex abuse is somehow proof that other cases of cult sexual abuse are made up conspiracies.

Brave move, Vice!  

As for me this moves Vice permanently into the realm of media outlets that glow in the dark so hard you go blind if you look at them too much.


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## Denmark Mafia (Nov 17, 2019)

We need to edit Wikipedia asap so this can be classified as a "debunked conspiracy theory". Good work Vice.


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## Ellesse_warrior (Nov 17, 2019)

Does anyone actually take vice seriously though at this point? The last thing I'd seen by vice prior to the above Epstein article was the video of the guy who fucks bugs.


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## AnOminous (Nov 17, 2019)

Denmark Mafia said:


> We need to edit Wikipedia asap so this can be classified as a "debunked conspiracy theory". Good work Vice.



Remember the Wikipedo policy of using sites like Vice as sources because they're "reliable."  Even though they're generally populated by Wikipedos in the first place.


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## XYZpdq (Nov 17, 2019)

greengrilledcheese said:


> Oh, you wacky conspiracy theorists, proclaims Vice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gosh who would have imagined Vice writing a piece sticking up for pedos!


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## Napalm Pissbaby (Nov 17, 2019)

Judge Holden said:


> Well the MKUltra shit that was declassified indicates that KGB style "film politicians/businessmen having sex with underage girls and blackmail them" operations were being run for a longass time
> 
> Given the batshit stupid and nightmarishly evil shit various intelligence agencies throughout the past 150 years have gotten up to, I wonder whether the CIA as a whole or some part of it is operating under the belief that having pedophiles as assets and operatives results in not only absolute loyalty for fear of being exposed and destroyed, but that these assets will be psychologically driven to go above and beyond the impossible to carry out a mission to their operator's satisfaction so long as they get a generous payment of hardcore CP, or perhaps access to "disposable" kids to abuse should they really rack up the good boy points.
> 
> ...



Nobody here seems to understand what’s actually going on. Let me explain.

Thousands of years ago, the Canaanites founded a colony named Carthage. This particular ethnic group was also referred to as the Phoenicians or Punics. They had a very advanced culture for the time. They invented coinage. They had sophisticated trade networks and a powerful military that would eventually go toe-to-toe in a stalemate with Rome.

One day, their fortunes turned for the worse. Hannibal Barca, though a strategic genius, failed to turn the Roman tide. Carthage was sacked and razed by Rome. The Romans discovered that the Carthaginians (who were not Jews or believers in the Talmud of any kind) were heavily engaged in ritual child sacrifice, to please Moloch and Baal Hammon, among others. They were polytheists and had brought Canaanite religious practices with them.

When Carthage was destroyed, the survivors headed far to the east and were scattered all over the Caucasus. They interbred with the local Turkic ethnic groups. This is where you get the Khazars, occupying what is basically the same region as modern-day Kazakhstan. Have you ever even heard of Khazaria in history class? It gets weirder. Much, much weirder.

From 1000 to 1400, the Khazars migrated west and insinuated themselves among Italian nobility. This is where you get the so-called Black Nobility. They’re in the Vatican. They’re in Switzerland. They’re in Italy. They’re in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, the UK.

All the major financial centers of Europe are under Canaanite control and have been for centuries.



			The Black Nobility
		




> The old-line ruling families who believe that they have the right to rule the world because they are descended from the emperors of the ancient Roman and so-called 'holy' Roman Empires consist of 13-15 'blue blood' families. Which include: Rothschild; Kuhn; Loeb; Lehman; Rockefeller; Sach; Warburg; Lazard; Seaf; Goldman; Schiff; Morgan; Schroeder; Bush and Harriman . . . Others that have not been mentioned are more 'powerful' than others. But these names will get you started if you wish to track down the present-day inner core of the conspiracy. The history of the Bilderberg group itself, a cover for the Bavarian Illuminati, and its Nazi conections, would probably be the best place to start.











						THE EUROPEAN BLACK NOBILITY
					

THE EUROPEAN BLACK NOBILITY THE BEGINNING OF THE SATANIC ELITE BLOODLINES pre-flood ⬇ 3500-3000 Bf.C ⬇ • ASSYRIANS ⬇ • EGYPTIANS ⬇ • BABYLONIANS ⬇ • PERSIANS ⬇ • GREEKS ⬇ • ROMANS ⬇ = THE ILLUMINAT…




					exposingpedovore.wordpress.com
				






> The “black nobility” of Europe is made up of the following Royal “Bloodlines”:
> 
> House of Guelph (Great Britain)
> House of Wettin (Belgium)
> ...











						the Venetian Black Nobility – A History
					

The Black Nobility – From: the Neuschwabenland Times (Posted at illuminati-news.com Jan.23,2004 by Wes Penre) These people earned the title of “Black” nobility from their ruthless…




					sembrouthes.wordpress.com
				






> In 1815 the Jesuits and their Freemason allies among the crowned heads of Europe held the Congress of Vienna, whereby Swiss neutrality (already sanctioned by the Peace of Westphalia in 164 was forever guaranteed; and no matter how many wars are provoked in which the common man has to do the fighting, the money of the Nobility in Switzerland should always be free from plunder. It’s part of Rothschild’s meticulous long-range planning, and why Switzerland exists to this day. But that doesn’t mean to say your money would be safe. Some US$280 billion p.a. in flight capital and drug money flows into the Swiss accounts of the Black Nobility.



All the most powerful families in the world today, with the most wealth and the most influence, descend from these groups. The names Rothschild and Luzzato have actually appeared in the Pizzagate investigations.

James Alefantis attended Rothschild-held private functions and was thought by /pol/ to be a Rothschild himself. A Rothschild running a pizza parlor.

Tamera Luzzato pimped out children to John Podesta, with pool parties where the kids were brought along as “entertainment”.

The key points are this:


These people are not Jews. They do not practice Judaism. They are polytheists, believe in the old Canaanite pantheon, and practice child sacrifice and have done so for millennia. If any of them claims to be an Israelite, they are merely wearing their claims of Jewish ancestry as a mask to deflect criticism.
They have been carefully engineering their revenge against Rome for the destruction of Carthage for literally thousands of years. They actually pretty much already achieved that goal, having murdered and replaced Italian nobility with their own stock.
They control all the central banking in the world, and all of your money. They _invented_ money. They’re the damn Punics.
All the world’s major Alphabet Agencies are under the control of the Black Nobility. Everything that they practice, up to and including using children for pedo-blackmail, is in accordance with Canaanite custom.
The CIA was created by the Black Nobility to recover Nazi gold, which was both the property of the Black Nobility and the true source of the Nazis’ prosperity.
Project MKUltra isn’t just about creating mind-controlled agents and assassins, but also compliant sacrifices and victims for occult practices. They discovered that if you vigorously rape children, it induces personality splitting and aids in hypnosis through the use of drugs. The process to create an MKUltra Alter is not nearly as effective on adults.
The Jack the Ripper murders were an occult ritual. The Beltway DC Sniper murders were also an occult ritual, and were perpetrated by a pair of MKUltra victims who were found asleep in a truck stop after receiving a hypnotic trigger message on live television. It is also arguable that 9/11 was an act of human sacrifice for occult purposes, among many other things, like the destruction of SEC documents on Black Nobility activity.
If you investigate too deeply into any of this, you will go insane. H.P. Lovecraft is tame compared to the horrors I’ve unearthed.


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## It's HK-47 (Nov 18, 2019)

Why take drugs when you can just read this thread?


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## Orange Rhymer (Nov 18, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> Wow, that's a bold move.  Claim an actual case of real cult sex abuse is somehow proof that other cases of cult sexual abuse are made up conspiracies.
> 
> Brave move, Vice!
> 
> As for me this moves Vice permanently into the realm of media outlets that glow in the dark so hard you go blind if you look at them too much.


Sounds like gaslighting. But gaslighting seems to be the game plan for this stuff..

Satanic Panic obvious fraud -> hides the actual Finders conspiracies
Pizzagate conspiracy and it's MSM mocking -> hiding Epstein and the child trafficking for the power elite

Our intel community defaults to gaslighting and social ridicule (The CIA invented the term 'conspiracy theory'). The USSR/China flat out eliminates or reeducates 'trouble makers'. Euros throw people in prison for 'hate crimes' and lets the muzzies eat them.

Belgium had a pizzagate problem in the 90s (Dutroux Affair of 1996), resulted in citizen riots. They controlled it by sacking the investigation team. It was memory-holed by a swelling of manufactured national pride due to some wins in sportsball and a nationalist song that made the Euro charts.

such is life on the plantation.


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## Napalm Pissbaby (Nov 18, 2019)

Orange Rhymer said:


> Sounds like gaslighting. But gaslighting seems to be the game plan for this stuff..
> 
> Satanic Panic obvious fraud -> hides the actual Finders conspiracies
> Pizzagate conspiracy and it's MSM mocking -> hiding Epstein and the child trafficking for the power elite
> ...



James Alefantis is suspicious as fuck, and any talk about him on Reddit will trigger automatic Shareblue brigading/shilling attacks that try and redirect the blame and suspicion upon Donald Trump.

Comet Ping Pong was discovered in John Podesta’s leaked emails as a frequent haunt of his. The emails were full of weird codewords, all sorts of references to “pizza”, and even suggestions that Obama spent tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money to fly “pizza and hot dogs” from Chicago to DC. Who the fuck flies food from one city to another when they can call a local catering service? The thing is, they’re not talking about food. 

John Podesta is a friend of Dennis Hastert (who is a convicted child rapist) and Marina Abramovic, a performance artist slash occultist who did a documentary on Joao Teixeira de Faria, a faith healer in Brazil whose clients included Bill Clinton, Paul Simon, and Naomi Campbell. 

This so-called “John of God” also ran baby farms for the elite, where teenagers were kept imprisoned in sex dungeons and repeatedly raped and their offspring sold off, until they were deemed too old for breeding purposes and then murdered.

John Podesta has creepy pedophile art of small half-naked children all over his house. Andrew Breitbart accused him, in 2011, of covering up a sex slavery ring.

But anyway, James Alefantis’ instagram was full of weird pedo shit, and Comet Ping Pong hosted bands with lyrics about pedophilia and billed itself as an all-ages venue while also serving liquor and beer. People started digging up and finding some very weird shit about him and his restaurant. They found a secret section of CPP’s website with password-protected archives named with MD5 hashes. People suspected this might be child pornography. Why would a pizza parlor have a hidden section of their site with passworded archives with scrambled names? The trail led investigators to strange hard drives on eBay and a suspected child porn trading hub in Hawaii.

The CPP weirdness was hardly over, however. An IMDB-listed actor grabbed a rifle and shot up CPP. One of the bullets went _right into one of CPP‘s computers_, which was confiscated by investigators, apparently. How convenient. Further investigation turned up James Alefantis’ connection to a front company called Castellum Achilles, which apparently managed a property called the Pegasus Museum. This property is a very strange house sandwiched between a few other buildings, accessible from a back alleyway in DC. 

This house has a practically windowless first floor, with tiny little barred privacy windows. It also has an upper floor with a moving platform that can be pushed away from the stairs, disconnecting the upper floor from the ground floor entirely, in the manner of an airlock. Imagine if firefighters, police, or EMTs had to reach the second floor. Someone on the upper floor would have all the time in the world to melt their hard drives with thermite or whatever the hell they needed to do to destroy any evidence before the authorities could get their hands on it.

The Pegasus Museum is also located just a block away from a children’s playground. Some suspected that this structure linked into tunnel networks stretching underneath DC. The investigator looking into this building was sent death threats by James Alefantis. Someone else also came forward with CPP pay stubs and claimed that James Alefantis had raped him while he worked at Comet Ping Pong. This person was also directly threatened by James Alefantis himself, who went as far as to get a Reddit account and go absolutely apeshit all over him.

These people are involved in the DC modern art scene, and the whole thing is all about fucking money laundering. That’s all it is. It’s about moving money around. When someone pays a million dollars for a shitty Jackson Pollock-tier painting, they’re not paying for a painting. They’re paying for drugs, guns, humans, and human organs.

The fucking US State Department under Madeleine Albright paid a mercenary company called DynCorp huge sums of money to provide security details in Bosnia and Kosovo in the late 1990s. DynCorp was accused of trafficking children in Bosnia. There was a whole documentary on it called _The Whistleblower_. They were also accused by Ben Johnston, an airplane mechanic in Texas, of passing around girls as young as 12 as rewards to their mercenary employees, and he said he’d witnessed 300-pound steroidal merc nutcases carting around little girls one-quarter their size with intent to molest them. DynCorp is thought to be a supplier of the child trafficking network in the US. They continued to receive US Government contracts and were involved heavily in coca eradication in Colombia. The US State Department leased them OV-10 Bronco aircraft modified into crop dusters and filled to the brim with glyphosate—the disgusting, carcinogenic weed killer also known as RoundUp—and had them spray half the Colombian countryside to kill coca plants.

The tail number of one of these OV-10 Broncos appears in Jeff Epstein’s flight logs, as a forged record (I bet the FAA would love to know about this) to cover the identity of a totally unrelated Bell 206L-3 LongRanger helicopter that was being used to ferry him to and from his mansion near Albuquerque, NM, where he planned on becoming genetically-immortal like Genghis Khan by impregnating a bunch of women and spreading his genes far and wide.

Jeffrey Epstein was, no doubt, a spy of some sort. Acosta was told hands off of Epstein, that he “belonged to Intelligence”. He had to be either Mossad or CIA, or connected to both. He had a forged Saudi passport and diamonds in his safe. He had connections to everyone. Back in the 1980s, he also did work for Adnan Khashoggi, the uncle of Jamal Khashoggi. Adnan Khashoggi was a pimp and a gun-runner, and his name appears in the Dutroux X-Dossiers as potentially linked to the Belgian elites who were supplied children by thugs like Marc Dutroux. Jamal Khashoggi knew the Saudi intelligence chief on a personal basis. When the Saudis butchered Jamal in a Saudi consulate, that wasn’t because he was a journalist. It was because he was a fucking spy.

The CIA is a fucking rogue organization. The first head of the CIA was Allen Dulles, brother of John Foster Dulles, and they had ties to the goddamn Rockefellers and Standard Oil. The Rockefeller Foundation, in turn, helped fund the research of Alfred Kinsey, a child-raping pervert who billed himself as a sexologist. The Nazis were a fucking investment of the Black Nobility, and the CIA—rather than being a true military intelligence organization like their predecessors, the OSS—were the repo men sent in to recover that investment, including all the Nazi gold and Project Paperclip and all the Nazi scientists they brought over. It wasn’t just rocket scientists. It was people who engaged in human experimentation, primarily chemical warfare, biological warfare, drugging, mind control, et cetera, and yes, they experimented on children, too. 

They murdered JFK because he was planning on dissolving the CIA for their incompetence in Cuba. The whole reason why they wanted Castro out of the way in the first place was because the Harriman-Bush family had a CIA front company in Cuba called Zapata Petroleum, and Castro was making their infrastructure inaccessible to them. When JFK looked like he might smash the CIA to dust, they hired hitmen to kill him.

These sick motherfuckers have embezzled trillions of dollars of the American tax-paying public’s money. They’ve amassed slush funds large enough to pay for private armies. They’ve used NGOs as propaganda arms and embezzled from charities. They’re trafficking in drugs, guns, organs, and people. Wherever there’s a natural disaster or a border rendered porous by war, they are gathering people up for the fucking chopping block, so they can take their livers, their kidneys, their corneas, and sell them to their elite friends. They’re stealing children for rape and ritual murder.

What we have stumbled across is the largest criminal syndicate in existence, and it is basically the _true_ government behind the fake governments that we are accustomed to.


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## Dante Alighieri (Nov 18, 2019)

@Napalm Pissbaby do you have a blog I can subscribe to?


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## Syaoran Li (Nov 18, 2019)

Napalm Pissbaby said:


> James Alefantis is suspicious as fuck, and any talk about him on Reddit will trigger automatic Shareblue brigading/shilling attacks that try and redirect the blame and suspicion upon Donald Trump.
> 
> Comet Ping Pong was discovered in John Podesta’s leaked emails as a frequent haunt of his. The emails were full of weird codewords, all sorts of references to “pizza”, and even suggestions that Obama spent tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money to fly “pizza and hot dogs” from Chicago to DC. Who the fuck flies food from one city to another when they can call a local catering service? The thing is, they’re not talking about food.
> 
> ...



Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Seriously, I don't know how deep the Epstein rabbit hole goes, but I do know that the CIA is shady and corrupt as fuck and that JFK was not killed by a lone gunman.

If Lee Harvey Oswald was involved in the assassination, it was either as the fall guy, part of a hit squad, or both.

Don't know who killed JFK or why, because like Epstein, JFK had a fuckton of people who would benefit from his death.

My best guess is that J. Edgar Hoover was involved somehow. Hoover was FBI and not CIA, but he was a shady paranoid fucker, and was a known bisexual transvestite and suspected pedophile who abused his position of power to an insane and blatant degree.

There's a reason why the FBI became clean-cut and relatively apolitical compared to other federal agencies after Hoover died in 1972. Then Obama undid a lot of that and put in his guys, which is part of why things have been so fucked up in the 2010's.

I think Pizzagate/QAnon is mostly bullshit with a few kernels of truth hidden in a sea of nonsense.


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## Dante Alighieri (Nov 18, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> I think Pizzagate/QAnon is mostly bullshit with a few kernels of truth hidden in a sea of nonsense.


I think Pizzagate got hijacked and turned into something to discredit the "pedo ring" suspicious people, but Q-Anon is definitely a psyop.


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## Syaoran Li (Nov 18, 2019)

DanteAlighieri said:


> I think Pizzagate got hijacked and turned into something to discredit the "pedo ring" suspicious people, but Q-Anon is definitely a shitpost that got turned into a psyop.



Fixed that for you.


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## Count groudon (Nov 18, 2019)

Maybe they’re using the satanic imagery as a way obfuscate everything? Like maybe it’s some sort of surreal camouflage they use because they know that “satanic pedo ring” is something that’s so off the wall that most people would have a hard time believing it, so it allows them to hide this shit in plain sight. I dunno man, things in this world are just getting too fucking insane for me anymore. Those poor kids.


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## Easterling (Nov 18, 2019)

Count groudon said:


> Maybe they’re using the satanic imagery as a way obfuscate everything? Like maybe it’s some sort of surreal camouflage they use because they know that “satanic pedo ring” is something that’s so off the wall that most people would have a hard time believing it, so it allows them to hide this shit in plain sight. I dunno man, things in this world are just getting too fucking insane for me anymore. Those poor kids.


The way I understand things like this, is just becuase you belive Satanic imagery is silly and doesn't have any tangible effect on anything, doesn't mean the people responsible for this stuff do. It might be the realm of conspiracy but maybe these people actually think this shit actually works? Plenty of the elite seem to belive in what would seem to the average person, as asinine esoteric nonesense, shit like spirit cooking and other types of so-called 'performance art'. No matter what they get up, be it autisitc rituals involving bodily fuilds or outright child abuse, what matters is not if we think it works, but rather that the perpetrators do and therefore will contiune to carry on doing it.


----------



## Denmark Mafia (Nov 18, 2019)

Napalm Pissbaby said:


> James Alefantis is suspicious as fuck, and any talk about him on Reddit will trigger automatic Shareblue brigading/shilling attacks that try and redirect the blame and suspicion upon Donald Trump.
> 
> Comet Ping Pong was discovered in John Podesta’s leaked emails as a frequent haunt of his. The emails were full of weird codewords, all sorts of references to “pizza”, and even suggestions that Obama spent tens of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money to fly “pizza and hot dogs” from Chicago to DC. Who the fuck flies food from one city to another when they can call a local catering service? The thing is, they’re not talking about food.
> 
> ...



I am not saying that all of this is true... But these days it's getting harder and harder to ignore certain things in the world that are not right. 
It would be great to have this completely sourced because "normies" will never believe this shit. It destroys their world view and people are naturally adamant to leave known thinking patterns. 

There is a German documentary on Youtube about the aftermath of the Dutroux murders and it's horrifying. As you said in another post, the witnesses have been murdered and the whole thing got memory holed.
This is from MSM. A time where real journalism still existed: 

Dutroux and the dead witnesses:








						Marc Dutroux und die toten Zeugen (Doku) Handlanger der Elite
					

Marc Dutroux und die toten Zeugen (Doku) Handlanger der Elite GERMAN Dokumentation Deutsch For English subtitles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPkoGGm_xQ ...




					www.youtube.com
				




Just this year there has been another huge scandal in Germany with an insane amount of inexplicable "coincidences". Among them police losing a shit ton of evidence:








						Child sex abuse case: German police lose suitcase of evidence | DW | 22.02.2019
					

Almost a terabyte of evidence in a child pornography case went missing while in police custody in the town of Detmold. Local officers are under investigation, with one official describing the situation as a "disaster."




					www.dw.com
				




This shit is everywhere. Money laundering, massive tax fraud and pedophilia. It's hard to keep a positive attitude when it's so easy to see how the world is getting fucked by evil people. 

On a side note, I recommend Fargo Season 3. That shit is massively dark and eye opening.


----------



## Where Do You Find Them? (Nov 18, 2019)

Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Nobody here seems to understand what’s actually going on. Let me explain.
> 
> Thousands of years ago, the Canaanites founded a colony named Carthage. This particular ethnic group was also referred to as the Phoenicians or Punics. They had a very advanced culture for the time. They invented coinage. They had sophisticated trade networks and a powerful military that would eventually go toe-to-toe in a stalemate with Rome.
> 
> ...



What you've said is intriguing but there's some real gaps regarding evidence. I can't speak much for the modern stuff but the all the way back to ancient Carthage stuff has some serious gaps if not just outright errors. We don't know exactly who invented the first coinage, but the suspects are a fairly short list (Greek, Turkish or Egyptian) and we know for sure there were people doing it a hundred years before the Carthage was.

There's no evidence of the Freemasons being involved in the Congress of Vienna and they are not allies of the Jesuits. Quite the opposite.

There's no evidence that the Rothschilds are descended from the Carthaginians. Their family didn't become important until the early 18th century anyway. I find it very hard to believe that anyone knows their ancestry too far past that. When I tried to find evidence the best I got is they apparently took DNA tests ( http://archive.ph/KI85t ) that put them in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-M172 . Long story short, close but not Carthage.

The sources you provide don't do any better for attempting to provide evidence and also make a bunch of claims that clearly aren't true. Grote did not donate £6000 to "mental health" he donated it to philosophy of mind. That's not the same thing at all, mental health wasn't a thing until after his death. 

Nobody but nobody has ever claimed to be descended from Jesus and it's most certainly not a Gnostic teaching. I've some small familiarity with Gnostic teachings and the idea makes no sense, even if it were true that they were descended from Jesus that wouldn't mean anything to the Gnostics.

More than anything these grand historical narratives never pan out. Usually they rely on ignoring evidence but in this case they seem to have just invented it. The only grand narrative that ever works is that history is big and complicated and nobody has been in control of it.

We've got a lot of very interesting stuff going on in the modern day. Between Epstein, these finders documents, the Dutroux affair etc there's plenty that we can actually show evidence for. Definitely people are lying and trying to cover things up but that doesn't mean you can just believe whatever you read without evidence. I'm gonna go through the modern things you've talked about over the next few days and see what I can collect primary sources for.


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## Thank Fuck For Evil Otto (Nov 18, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> Your ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
> 
> Seriously, I don't know how deep the Epstein rabbit hole goes, but I do know that the CIA is shady and corrupt as fuck and that JFK was not killed by a lone gunman.
> 
> ...


JFK's plans to force Israel to comply with nuclear facility inspections surely earned him the ire of the most ruthless, violent gangsters around. Anyone standing in the way of israel's nuclear arsenal was going to have a bad time. False flags were their bread and butter - read up on how many brits they killed by their false falgs in order to take control of Palestine (not to mention their frequent usage of the tactic before and since).

Certainly JFK was the last president who dared to think that taking that job meant he had any real power or independence.


----------



## Niggernerd (Nov 18, 2019)

everytime I see the word "finders" this is all I can think of




obligatory thread theme


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## Syaoran Li (Nov 18, 2019)

Thank Fuck For Evil Otto said:


> JFK's plans to force Israel to comply with nuclear facility inspections surely earned him the ire of the most ruthless, violent gangsters around. Anyone standing in the way of israel's nuclear arsenal was going to have a bad time. False flags were their bread and butter - read up on how many brits they killed by their false falgs in order to take control of Palestine (not to mention their frequent usage of the tactic before and since).
> 
> Certainly JFK was the last president who dared to think that taking that job meant he had any real power or independence.



I do agree that JFK was killed for stepping on the toes of too many powerful people, but I don't think the Israelis were involved in it. Israel was very small-time in 1963 and extremely reliant on the aid of France, England, and the United States, and unlike today, most of their support was from the French rather than the Americans (the situation would reverse after 1967) and they would not bite the hands that feed them, especially back then.

Not saying that the Mossad didn't hate Kennedy, but they wouldn't have had the strength nor the reach to be involved in his demise. It really wouldn't be until after the Six-Day War that the Mossad became an intel powerhouse.

Don't get me wrong, the Mossad does a lot of shady shit, but too often people think they're omnipotent and the claims of accusation rapidly shift from "reasonable criticism of Israel" to "The Jews invented AstroTurf!"


----------



## Thank Fuck For Evil Otto (Nov 18, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> I do agree that JFK was killed for stepping on the toes of too many powerful people, but I don't think the Israelis were involved in it. Israel was very small-time in 1963 and extremely reliant on the aid of France, England, and the United States, and unlike today, most of their support was from the French rather than the Americans (the situation would reverse after 1967) and they would not bite the hands that feed them, especially back then.
> 
> Not saying that the Mossad didn't hate Kennedy, but they wouldn't have had the strength nor the reach to be involved in his demise. It really wouldn't be until after the Six-Day War that the Mossad became an intel powerhouse.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the Mossad does a lot of shady shit, but too often people think they're omnipotent and the claims of accusation rapidly shift from "reasonable criticism of Israel" to "The Jews invented AstroTurf!"


You're saying that in the '60s world jewry was... not powerful enough to handle that kind of execution? Seriously? They controlled the bulk of the media in the western world and commanded financial powers that dwarfed much of the rest of planet; they were instrumental in the architecture of the two world wars, of which they were, as now seen in retrospect, the sole victors. But they were not powerful enough to handle the elimination of a political figure of a government they already had significant control over? They who had already successfully funded and executed the revolution in Russia, taking over one of the largest nations of on the planet? Where they killed how many tens of millions  of Russians?

Dude, that is the hottest of takes. If you were to make that claim in say 1910 or even 1920, maybe you could get away with it, but by the '60s they were already one of the dominant global powers, explicitly and systematically transforming the western nations to the pissearth clown world we now enjoy.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Nov 18, 2019)

Thank Fuck For Evil Otto said:


> You're saying that in the '60s world jewry was... not powerful enough to handle that kind of execution? Seriously? They controlled the bulk of the media in the western world and commanded financial powers that dwarfed much of the rest of planet; they were instrumental in the architecture of the two world wars, of which they were, as now seen in retrospect, the sole victors. But they were not powerful enough to handle the elimination of a political figure of a government they already had significant control over? They who had already successfully funded and executed the revolution in Russia, taking over one of the largest nations of on the planet? Where they killed how many tens of millions  of Russians?
> 
> Dude, that is the hottest of takes. If you were to make that claim in say 1910 or even 1920, maybe you could get away with it, but by the '60s they were already one of the dominant global powers, explicitly and systematically transforming the western nations to the pissearth clown world we now enjoy.



And you lost me on the "World Jewry" part.

Also, the Russian Revolution killed more Jews than it saved, the Bolsheviks were comprised mostly of militant atheists and the ethnically Jewish Bolsheviks such as Trotsky were self-hating Jews who openly purged anyone who was culturally Jewish or practiced Judaism, same as they purged the kulaks, the nobility, the Orthodox Christians, and the Muslim groups such as the Basmachi rebels.

The idea of "World Jewry" is some Dale Gribble-tier insanity and keep in mind that the ADL, George Soros, and the Rothschilds are essentially wealthy secularists who actively despise Israel.


----------



## Kaede Did Nothing Wrong (Nov 18, 2019)

to move thread back to finders, that Vice article is disturbingly biased.

here is how journalist describes the execution of a search warrant on 2 finders warehouses in Washington DC.


> When Tallahassee police contacted D.C. police, the story got weirder. When D.C. police found out the Florida cops had arrested Finders, “Their response was, ‘Holy shit! We’ve been looking at these freaks!’” according to Tallahassee officer Scott Hunt in a 1988 _Washington City Paper _article reprinted in the document dump. D.C. Police believed at the time that The Finders were satanists and/or survivalists, though not necessarily criminals. Just a few months earlier in December 1986, as noted in the February search warrant, a D.C. detective found the following in the rear of the house whose address Mary had given investigators:
> 
> A clearing approximately seventy yards behind the house and several stumps surrounding the open area. Several round stones had been gathered near the circle, this practice is sometimes used in Satanic rituals, and evidence that several persons had gathered in the clearing recently. The rear of the residence is covered from the alley by heavy bamboo growth, save a small entrance to the rear yard. In the rear yard was a small very ornate gravestone propped up against the support pillar for the porch.
> 
> ...


the author gives a paragraph about some trivial gravestone found earlier, then a paragraph about the state of national media and moral panic, then a three sentence paragraph mention of a search warrant. we are left wondering
-what was the probable cause for a search warrant?
-why would DC police execute a search if they did not suspect criminal activity?
-what was in the emails? what does "esoteric" mean? what were the "personal documents" police siezed?
-the fuck is this about a goat?

the book I posted earlier sources its information directly from USCS special agent Ramon Martinez's reports. it fills in those details.


> The Tallahassee police suspected child pornography; they contacted the US Customs Service (USCS), which has a Child Pornography and Protection Unit. Shortly thereafter, Detective James Bradley of the Washington, DC Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) contacted Special Agent Ramon Martinez of the USCS. Detective Bradley indicated that the Tallahassee arrests were probably linked to a case that he was investigating in the DC area, involving a “cult” called the Finders. An informant had told Bradley that the Finders operated various businesses out of a warehouse in DC and housed children at a second warehouse.
> 
> “The information was specific in describing ‘blood rituals’ and sexual orgies involving children, and an as yet unsolved murder in which the Finders may be involved,” wrote Martinez in his report.
> 
> ...


- according to document, the finders were implicated in an open murder case
- DC police had informants telling them children were abused at this location, hence the probable cause with Tallahasse PD's arrests
- the "esoteric communication between members over an early version of email" was "telex specifically ordered the purchase of two children in Hong Kong to be arranged through a contact in the Chinese Embassy." "personal documents" were "detailed instructions for obtaining children for unspecified purposes"
- the photos included children in sexually exploitative poses

this is author btw, a trans sportswriter for deadspin.


----------



## America's Giggling Gigolo (Nov 18, 2019)

Early in the thread someone mentioned Colonel Michael Aquino and he is quite the interesting person to look into. He was one of the early pioneers of psychological warfare, and wrote a book on it, MindWar, that had a new edition printed as recently as 2016. He's made a ton of tv appearances in the 80s (Check out "Devil Worship - Exposing Satan's Underground" on youtube, its Geraldo's satanic panic special) as well as a lot of podcast appearances in recent years.

Some info on Mindwar


----------



## saralovesjuicyfruit (Nov 18, 2019)

Napalm Pissbaby said:


> James Alefantis is suspicious as fuck, and any talk about him on Reddit will trigger automatic Shareblue brigading/shilling attacks that try and redirect the blame and suspicion upon Donald Trump.



Fun fact: Alefantis dated David Brock for many years. David Brock is the owner and founder of Media Matters, Correct the Record, and Shareblue.


----------



## America's Giggling Gigolo (Nov 18, 2019)

I'm having trouble finding the photo now, but on Alefantis' old Instagram there was a photo of a book party hosted at Tony Podesta's place (Tony, not John, is the one that collects all the dark, pedo child torture artwork), and there Brock is standing on the stairs, next to one of the Rothschild women (Lynn I think?).


----------



## saralovesjuicyfruit (Nov 18, 2019)

America's Giggling Gigolo said:


> I'm having trouble finding the photo now, but on Alefantis' old Instagram there was a photo of a book party hosted at Tony Podesta's place (Tony, not John, is the one that collects all the dark, pedo child torture artwork), and there Brock is standing on the stairs, next to one of the Rothschild women (Lynn I think?).



Yeah, it's Lynn. Got it right here.


----------



## Where Do You Find Them? (Nov 19, 2019)

Ok, keeping my promise of looking through all the modern day stuff.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> any talk about him on Reddit will trigger automatic Shareblue brigading/shilling attacks that try and redirect the blame and suspicion upon Donald Trump.


It's Reddit. I could shit myself and they'd be there to tell me it was Trump's fault.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> The thing is, they’re not talking about food.


I think they are. The whole Obama flying food thing was a joke around the "Chicago" hot dogs (clearly just Chicago style rather than actually from there) they were eating. It even gets a joke response that makes sexual innuendo about hoping they get the same "waitresses" as Obama does. Why do that if you're already talking in sexual innuendo? Moreover there's about a 20 minute gap between the emails saying come and get the hot-dogs and the emails saying thank you and how delicious it was. That's one fast child murder orgy.

In general the whole "It's a secret code" thing doesn't hold up for me. Nothing that's said seems that weird in context and there's tons of times when they're clearly talking about actual pizza like here: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/55930 . That's Podesta and his brother so they'd both be in the know for the sekrit code and the address and subject fits: https://www.martamanhattan.com . It's just pizza and hot dogs.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> John Podesta is a friend of Dennis Hastert


John's brother Tony was part of the same foreign exchange student program as Hastert and maintained touch with him. I wouldn't say John and Hastert were necessarily friends, but there's still a pretty strong connection there. Elite circles are often small.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Marina Abramovic, a performance artist slash occultist who did a documentary on Joao Teixeira de Faria


This is true, but then so did Oprah Winfrey. Abramovic and Joao were both very big names in new age circles.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> whose clients included Bill Clinton


We only have his word for this mind.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> John Podesta has creepy pedophile art of small half-naked children all over his house.


He has not quite so creepy art by an artist who has also made seriously creepy art hanging in his house. He does seem to have a fondness for such creepy art and certainly owns some pieces. Not sure if he hangs them in his house though. Note that the art is considered legitimate fine art by experts.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Andrew Breitbart accused him, in 2011, of covering up a sex slavery ring.


This was because of him working with ACORN (which I'll presume people are familiar with). Specifically John Podesta was part of the advisory committee that was busy pointing out that Breitbart had been less than totally honest in his investigations. There's no evidence Breitbart knew anything beyond that.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> They found a secret section of CPP’s website with password-protected archives


Their website was hosted at Jimdo at the time. The Jimdo CMS includes a /protected/ page on all their sites (You're meant to rename it but they neglected to). The archives are a normal part of the CMS (they're backups). This only makes sense. Why distribute CP through your corporate website when there are a million better ways? It would just be incredibly sloppy.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> The trail led investigators to strange hard drives on eBay and a suspected child porn trading hub in Hawaii.


There was no trail from those archives to the strange hard drives. There isn't even evidence of the strange hard drives at all. People say it was the cheesybay ebay account but no archives or anything. As for the child porn trading hub, one guy on reddit claimed to find a concrete slab that gave off 30 wifi ssids that kept randomly changing. This same guy also started talking about an ebay account with hard drives (this was the first mention of it I believe). Then we get some very tenuous links to some guy who apparently got his email hacked. 

In short, looks like it was a ruse by the wifi guy and even if it wasn't the evidence is very thin on the ground. They're supposedly following the /pol/ threads well enough that they can immediately lock down the ebay account before anyone can archive it but not well enough that they can get away with a million password reset attempts on the email account while posting screen shots of them doing it to the thread?



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> One of the bullets went _right into one of CPP‘s computers_, which was confiscated by investigators, apparently. How convenient.


There seems to be some sort of implication that they decided to get rid of a computer by having a gunman shoot it? I mean why the fuck would you do that? Just burn the damn thing. This is the least convenient thing I can think of.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> It also has an upper floor with a moving platform that can be pushed away from the stairs


I can find no evidence for this. It was not like this the last time it was sold ( http://archive.ph/jVw3r ) and they have not applied for a permit for this sort of work ( http://archive.ph/H7kKZ ). Also as you can see from the first link (or google street maps) the windows are pretty normal.

And that's it for the pizzagate stuff. I'll look into the DynCorp Epstein stuff tomorrow.

Big thing to note: I went through every sentence and checked it. If I didn't include something here then I found evidence for it, Alefantis does own that house through the company named etc. Of course I haven't bothered with stuff that can't possibly be verified. For instance, somebody sent death threats to that investigator, no way to know who (perhaps even to himself), same with the reddit posts etc. It's clear that Alefantis was following the investigation mind as he would make flippant comments online about it.

So yeah, Podesta and co certainly look weird, but that doesn't mean every time anyone mentions pizza or hotdogs they're raping kids. They are elites and I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find they were in on this sort of shit, but they also need to eat and are of Italian heritage.


----------



## Deodar (Nov 19, 2019)

What has me hung up about all of this is the timing of the release. Why release it at all? What's the point of releasing the pdf (given it makes their CIA buttbuddies look real bad), and why _now? _ i just don't get the significance, (or lack thereof) of the date that they did. Sorry if this has already been talked about but I had to jot this down before I forgot


----------



## Nobunaga (Nov 19, 2019)

Deodar said:


> What has me hung up about all of this is the timing of the release. Why release it at all? What's the point of releasing the pdf (given it makes their CIA buttbuddies look real bad), and why _now? _ i just don't get the significance, (or lack thereof) of the date that they did. Sorry if this has already been talked about but I had to jot this down before I forgot


Because the fbi and the glow niggers have hated each other ever since one got more funding for their stupid shit than the other


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## AnOminous (Nov 19, 2019)

Deodar said:


> What has me hung up about all of this is the timing of the release. Why release it at all? What's the point of releasing the pdf (given it makes their CIA buttbuddies look real bad), and why _now? _ i just don't get the significance, (or lack thereof) of the date that they did. Sorry if this has already been talked about but I had to jot this down before I forgot



I think it's possible Trump personally just said make this happen.  He fucking hates the CIA and they hate him.  If not him personally then someone who supports him and also hates the CIA.  It could even be a liberal who hates the CIA.  The CIA is very fucking hatable.

Also remember all this stuff has been subject to release under the FOIA for years and years and they've obfuscated and pretended to have lost it and rolled out all the usual excuses.  At least procedurally it looks "normal" to release it.  They're legally supposed to have done it a long time ago.


----------



## Deodar (Nov 19, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> I think it's possible Trump personally just said make this happen.  He fucking hates the CIA and they hate him.  If not him personally then someone who supports him and also hates the CIA.  It could even be a liberal who hates the CIA.  The CIA is very fucking hatable.
> 
> Also remember all this stuff has been subject to release under the FOIA for years and years and they've obfuscated and pretended to have lost it and rolled out all the usual excuses.  At least procedurally it looks "normal" to release it.  They're legally supposed to have done it a long time ago.



I suppose that would make sense, but if it was Trump, wouldn't he be all over it on twitter? Admittedly, I haven't checked his in a while, but I'm certain I would see article after article covering it if so. He's not exactly the subtle type. As for associates of him, or people against it, that would make more sense. 
Even then though, if the intent was to make the CIA look like shit, wouldn't it have made more of a splash? The way it was released pretty much ensures no normie will see or care about it.
This whole thing is fucking weird


----------



## Napalm Pissbaby (Nov 20, 2019)

Where Do You Find Them? said:


> Ok, keeping my promise of looking through all the modern day stuff.
> 
> It's Reddit. I could shit myself and they'd be there to tell me it was Trump's fault.



Sadly, very true. At this point, online discourse has basically been ruined by shilling and brigading in a lot of places. There was an actual word for this at one point; astroturfing. That is, feigning the appearance of a grassroots movement while actually belonging to a PR firm, hence fake grass, hence astroturf. Nobody seems to remember this coinage, in spite of the fact that astroturfing is like 90% of the communications on the modern internet.

It’s all trash. Burn it all down.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> I think they are. The whole Obama flying food thing was a joke around the "Chicago" hot dogs (clearly just Chicago style rather than actually from there) they were eating. It even gets a joke response that makes sexual innuendo about hoping they get the same "waitresses" as Obama does. Why do that if you're already talking in sexual innuendo? Moreover there's about a 20 minute gap between the emails saying come and get the hot-dogs and the emails saying thank you and how delicious it was. That's one fast child murder orgy.
> 
> In general the whole "It's a secret code" thing doesn't hold up for me. Nothing that's said seems that weird in context and there's tons of times when they're clearly talking about actual pizza like here: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/55930 . That's Podesta and his brother so they'd both be in the know for the sekrit code and the address and subject fits: https://www.martamanhattan.com . It's just pizza and hot dogs.



There is a LOT of weird phrasing in those emails, to be honest:



			The Global Intelligence Files - RE: Get ready for "Chicago Hot Dog Friday"
		




> I think Obama spent about $65,000 of the tax-payers money flying in
> pizza/dogs from Chicago for a private party at the White House not long
> ago, assume we are using the same channels?



The dining room in the White House can accommodate 140 guests for full dining service, or 1000 partygoers throughout the house and the grounds being served lighter fare. It’s not a very large building. Its total square footage is 54,900, and the largest ballroom is like 2800 square feet. Let’s say that 300 people were milling around at a private party. $65,000 is $216 per person. That’s a lot of pizza and hot dogs.

What the hell does “using the same channels” mean? Who needs special channels for catering services unless the thing being served is illicit?

This email between John Podesta and Herb Sandler is bizarre:









						Re: Cheese - WikiLeaks
					

From: john.podesta@gmail.com To: hms@sandlerfoundation.org Miss you Herb. Happy Holidays and see you in 2016.  On Thursday December 24 2015 Sandler Herbert hms sandlerfoundation.org  wrote    Mary and John    I think you should give notice when changing strategies which have been  long in place...




					wikileaks.org
				






> Mary and John
> 
> I think you should give notice when changing strategies which have been long in place.



This is not a normal response to someone giving you a gift. This is what someone sounds like when they’re whining that contraband has been delivered indiscreetly, outside their regular patterns, causing a change in itinerary or incurring unacceptable risks of discovery, or perhaps that they were sent something different from their usual fare without prior notice.



> I immediately realized something was different by the shape of the box and I contemplated who would be sending me something in the square shaped box.



“Square shaped box” sounds like code for something. Nobody talks like this.



> Lo and behold, instead of pasta and wonderful sauces, it was a lovely, tempting assortment of cheeses, Yummy. I am awaiting the return of my children and grandchildren from their holiday travels so that we can demolish them.



Herb Sandler has a net worth of $800+ million dollars. Who gives a nearly-billionaire a gift of _groceries?_









						Re: Our drive - WikiLeaks
					

From: john.podesta@gmail.com To: Tara_D_McGuinness@who.eop.gov Thx for coming out. Always happy to babysit.  JP  Sent from my iPad  john.podesta gmail.com For scheduling eryn.sepp gmail.com   On Mar 1 2015 at 6 12 PM McGuinness Tara Tara_D_McGuinness who.eop.gov wrote     En route. What is the...




					wikileaks.org
				






> On Mar 1, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Jennifer Palmier I <jennifer.m.palmieri@gmail.com> wrote: So that's our ice encased wiper and taste of the traffic we are in. Suffice to say we will not make it tonight, I am sad to say. Have to settle for the pasta john gave us at Christmas. Really sorry to miss.



If it’s cooked pasta, it’s been three months. If it’s uncooked pasta, again, why is Podesta handing out _groceries_ to his wealthy friends? Isn’t that kind of an insulting and chintzy gift?









						Did you leave a handkerchief - WikiLeaks
					

From: ses@sandlerfoundation.org To: john.podesta@gmail.com Hi John   The realtor found a handkerchief I think it has a map that seems pizza related. Is it yorus? They can send it if you want. I know you re busy so feel free not to respond if it s not yours or you don t want it.  Susaner  From...




					wikileaks.org
				






> Hi John, The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus? They can send it if you want. I know you're busy, so feel free not to respond if it's not yours or you don't want it. Susaner  From: Kathryn Tate [mailto:kathy@ktate.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 10:04 AM To: Sandler, Susan Cc: Sandler, Herbert Subject: You left something at the Field house Susan & Herb I just came from checking the Field house and I have a square cloth handkerchief (white w/ black) that was left on the kitchen island. Happy to send it via the mail if you let me know where I should send it. I also meant to inquire yesterday about the pillows you purchased. I can send them as well, if you let me know where they are in the house. Safe travels to all Kate



This is completely bizarre. Who would be so concerned about someone leaving a hanky behind? What the fuck does “a pizza-related map” mean? Even if we take it literally, that’s just completely odd. Imagine how strange and gaudy a handkerchief would be if it literally had a map of famous pizza parlors on it. This is obviously code for something else.

This shit from the Stratfor leaks is really, really weird:



			The Global Intelligence Files - RE: headcount for pizza
		




> Are you sure this might not be a Jim Jones Kool-Aid event? Teekell, pls eat
> my slice.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> ...



Only one slice of pizza? What the hell does that mean? Also, again with the “black and white” symbolism. What’s up with that?









						Re: Farmers L Update and Welcome Mat - WikiLeaks
					

From: drewlittman@gmail.com To: Ruth.Marcus@washpost.com I ve never had an affair so I pass the Walter Jones test.  On Thu Oct 8 2015 at 1 26 PM Marcus Ruth Ruth.Marcus washpost.com  wrote    Might as well. I ll live blog it.    From Drew Littman drewlittman gmail.com   Date Thursday October 8...




					wikileaks.org
				






> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Tamera Luzzatto <tluzzatto@pewtrusts.org> >> wrote: >> >> With enormous gratitude to Advance Man Extraordinaire Haber, I am popping >> up again to share our excitement about the Reprise of Our Gang’s visit to >> the farm in Lovettsville. And I thought I’d share a couple more notes: >> We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be >> Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and >> almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in >> that pool for sure. And with the forecast showing prospects of some sun, >> and a cooler temp of lower 60s, I suggest you bring sweaters of whatever >> attire will enable us to use our outdoor table with a pergola overhead so >> we dine al fresco (and ideally not al-CHILLo).



Who describes children as “some further entertainment”, eh? That’s weird stuff.

Tamera Luzzatto’s blog was even weirder:






						"Raw and Uncut" : Step-Grandmother (and chief of staff to popular politician) hawked granddaughter online via blog — Steemit
					

Kind Reader,   Permit me to take you on a journalistic journey into a topic many   choose   not to cover due to the… by mandireiserra




					steemit.com
				




“Raw and uncut”. Nobody refers to their own children that way. That’s bizarre.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> John's brother Tony was part of the same foreign exchange student program as Hastert and maintained touch with him. I wouldn't say John and Hastert were necessarily friends, but there's still a pretty strong connection there. Elite circles are often small.



That’s interesting. I wonder how close they are after his conviction?



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> This is true, but then so did Oprah Winfrey. Abramovic and Joao were both very big names in new age circles.



Sabrina Bittencourt was promptly suicided after she came out against Joao de Deus:









						Brazilian activist’s alleged suicide sparks coverage controversy
					

<p>On a Sunday in early February, Lilian Tahan, executive director of the Brazilian news website Metrópoles received a call from the morning editor. News was coming out that Sabrina Bittencourt—the activist behind the recent downfall of famous faith healer João Teixeira de Faria, also known as...




					www.cjr.org
				









						John Of God, The Mysterious Death Of Sabrina Bittencourt And An Alleged Baby Farm — Steemit
					

Trigger Warning:  Disturbing Content             Brazilian "faith-healer" João Teixeira de Faria, widely known as John… by whitedeer9217




					steemit.com
				




The whole thing stinks, honestly. Him and Abramovic both give me the creeps.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> He has not quite so creepy art by an artist who has also made seriously creepy art hanging in his house. He does seem to have a fondness for such creepy art and certainly owns some pieces. Not sure if he hangs them in his house though. Note that the art is considered legitimate fine art by experts.



I would not dispute that Biljana Djurdjevic’s art is of high quality, because it is, nor would I be philistine enough to complain about someone else’s taste in art. But the whole picture, with the artistic tastes and everything else taken together, points to something warped in the Podestas’ psyche.









						Tony Podesta: globetrotting art collector
					

What makes Tony Podesta travel thousands of miles just for a gallery opening? He tells all to John Hooper.




					www.theguardian.com
				






> They are known for purchasing "awkward" works, such as video installations, that many other private collectors will not consider. "It's easy to store them, but difficult to display them," says Podesta. To get round the problem, he and his wife have excavated a huge subterranean vault beneath their house outside Washington - a white space 5m square and 4m high in which it will be possible to show "very complicated video pieces" on all four walls.



Spirit Cooking. Marina Abramovic’s Spirit Cooking performance art piece (which dates to 1996) involves painting animal blood on the four interior walls of a room.








Where Do You Find Them? said:


> This was because of him working with ACORN (which I'll presume people are familiar with). Specifically John Podesta was part of the advisory committee that was busy pointing out that Breitbart had been less than totally honest in his investigations. There's no evidence Breitbart knew anything beyond that.













Breitbart was visibly distressed and behaving very erratically on camera. I have a hunch he knew more than he let on, but unfortunately, we’ll never know what was going through his head.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> Their website was hosted at Jimdo at the time. The Jimdo CMS includes a /protected/ page on all their sites (You're meant to rename it but they neglected to). The archives are a normal part of the CMS (they're backups). This only makes sense. Why distribute CP through your corporate website when there are a million better ways? It would just be incredibly sloppy.



Huh, that’s a new one on me. I didn’t know that one. Good find.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> There was no trail from those archives to the strange hard drives. There isn't even evidence of the strange hard drives at all. People say it was the cheesybay ebay account but no archives or anything. As for the child porn trading hub, one guy on reddit claimed to find a concrete slab that gave off 30 wifi ssids that kept randomly changing. This same guy also started talking about an ebay account with hard drives (this was the first mention of it I believe). Then we get some very tenuous links to some guy who apparently got his email hacked.
> 
> In short, looks like it was a ruse by the wifi guy and even if it wasn't the evidence is very thin on the ground. They're supposedly following the /pol/ threads well enough that they can immediately lock down the ebay account before anyone can archive it but not well enough that they can get away with a million password reset attempts on the email account while posting screen shots of them doing it to the thread?



That concrete slab with the 30 WiFi SSIDs was some creepy shit, though, honestly.

IIRC, they also found a mysterious bucket full of sludge that some conjectured was saponified fat. Very strange.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> There seems to be some sort of implication that they decided to get rid of a computer by having a gunman shoot it? I mean why the fuck would you do that? Just burn the damn thing. This is the least convenient thing I can think of.



It’s odd that it ended up being shot and then collected as evidence. There are, in fact, far more convenient ways to dispose of data, if that was the aim. I agree.



Where Do You Find Them? said:


> I can find no evidence for this. It was not like this the last time it was sold ( http://archive.ph/jVw3r ) and they have not applied for a permit for this sort of work ( http://archive.ph/H7kKZ ). Also as you can see from the first link (or google street maps) the windows are pretty normal.



That’s not the structure I was thinking of. That’s the house out on the street. The “Pegasus Museum” is a very strange windowless (on the ground floor at least) building located in the back alley behind it:






						Alefantis's Achilles Heel: Pegasus Museum — Steemit
					

James Alefantis   He  is the key player in the online investigation known as "Pizzagate". He is a business owner in… by abortionburger




					steemit.com
				






			BREAKING: PIZZAGATE BOMBSHELL – The Millennium Report
		




			https://i.imgur.com/kJFvhbB.png
		




			https://i.imgur.com/KQY3UmJ.png
		




			Alefantis Kill Room: Frame by frame analysis of the interior of Pegasus “Museum” | SOTN: Alternative News, Analysis & Commentary
		







These are high-res photos of the inside of the actual structure in question:






						Joe Wills Work
					

Joe Wills, Design, Furniture Design, Design Build, Interior Design, Object Design




					www.joewills.work
				




Notice how that first photo has the opening to the upper level clonebrushed out, but the second photo does not?

That “rolling mezzanine” acts as an airlock. Move it away from the stairs, and the upper story is cut off from the ground floor. If it’s rolled towards the stairs, anyone who is on the upper floor would be trapped there unless they shimmied on the rails to the rolling platform, or there is some unknown, alternative route to ground level. This should never pass muster in any building code, because the discontinuity of the floor prevents escape in case of fire.

The individual investigating this building—which is billed as a “museum” but is not open to the public—was allegedly sent death threats by Alefantis.

EDIT: Quick swing around in Google Earth. See the captions for details.



			https://i.imgur.com/qjvKcdu.jpg
		




			https://i.imgur.com/6Eab80Z.jpg
		




			https://i.imgur.com/yfso7gF.jpg
		




			https://i.imgur.com/kyXeI6k.jpg
		




			https://i.imgur.com/eMySkiB.jpg


----------



## Where Do You Find Them? (Nov 20, 2019)

Napalm Pissbaby said:


> The dining room in the White House can accommodate 140 guests for full dining service,


It's pretty clearly a joke. Trying to take it literally isn't going to work.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> This is not a normal response to someone giving you a gift.


John has a tradition of sending everyone pasta for Christmas every year, this year he sent cheese instead. They joked about it in their thank you email by calling it a "change in strategy" and saying they knew something was off when the box was different to usual.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Who gives a nearly-billionaire a gift of _groceries?_


Yeah you should get him something he can't afford instead... 

Giving gifts like cheeses or similar that really emphasize that it's the thought that counts is basically all you have left for billionaires. Anything they might actually want they already have.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Who would be so concerned about someone leaving a hanky behind? What the fuck does “a pizza-related map” mean?


The realtor was concerned they wanted it because a map was drawn on the hanky. It could have been a map of pizza places, it could have been a map of the places they'd just visited and that the hanky had pizza stains on it. It's quite the stretch to imagine that us not being able to tell what it means without context implies child rape.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Only one slice of pizza? What the hell does that mean?


It's a joke! Look at the bit right after "Simply send a single response, filed, color-coded, double-sided and appropriately labeled, signed in triplicate and set on fire." He's just trying to be wacky funny.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Also, again with the “black and white” symbolism. What’s up with that?


It's just reading into obvious jokes (this email will self destruct indeed) and innocuous things like Christmas gifts. The last time we saw that "symbolism" was from the realtor. That would imply that the realtor is in on the only used twice details of their secret child molestation code. It just doesn't hang together. 



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Who describes children as “some further entertainment”, eh? That’s weird stuff.


Yeah a bit but then playing with some kids in a pool can be entertaining. Also, they are an elite's kids so unless they're abusing their own...



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> “Raw and uncut”. Nobody refers to their own children that way. That’s bizarre.


If you're old and out of touch raw and uncut just means unedited and has no pornographic implications (e.g. https://excel.tv/visual-analytics-in-microsoft-excel-webinar-raw-and-uncut/ )



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> That’s not the structure I was thinking of. That’s the house out on the street. The “Pegasus Museum” is a very strange windowless (on the ground floor at least) building located in the back alley behind it:


It's just a garage. There are windows on the sides. Hell, those pictures you linked show windows on the ground floor but...



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> These are high-res photos of the inside of the actual structure in question:


That's a different building. It took some doing to prove this (almost as much as trying to find that bloody cheesybay crap that doesn't exist) but at least this time it paid off. That's the office of Square Form Design LLC that they left around October 2014. The evidence people give that it's that same building is that the layout is the same. That's thin on the ground in the first place, lots of buildings reuse layouts, but if we look here http://archive.md/eeAoJ we get a view out of the window, where we can see a red bricked building with a window directly opposite. The view from the same placed window on the garage is open space with some trees. 



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Notice how that first photo has the opening to the upper level clonebrushed out, but the second photo does not?


Alternatively it was bricked up between the two shots. You can see in the second photo that it's still being constructed with exposed brick and a wooden plank in the doorway that would prevent the thing from rolling. Consider if it was photoshopped he'd have to convince an unrelated company to put a photoshopped image on their site but not bother to photoshop the other image. Not that it matters as it's a different building. 

The astute will notice that there's a comment from Alefantis on that window image I just linked. The reason that anyone ever saw those images and tried to match them with that building in the first place is that the rolling thing was designed by the same people who designed Comet Ping Pong's interior and I wouldn't be surprised to find that Square Form Design did the actual building, it's certainly in their style.

People have tried really, really hard to make things fit where they just don't. Every joke or conversation that isn't obvious without context probably isn't a secret code that everyone under the sun is in on. He definitely didn't set up a crazy rolling platform to hide his "kill room" then pretend it was the offices of some other people for three months (that's from when he bought the house to when they posted the moving out image) when he could have just not posted pictures of the place online at all, then selectively photoshop some of the photos of this to try to cover it up but not all of them.


----------



## Haramburger (Nov 20, 2019)

Ralph Barnhardt said:


> I'll repeat myself this last time because I'm so baffled by it:
> 
> Why release this and why now?


You ever play Civ, any version, seriously? Simply put, this is a play, but it's not meant for you. Player A is doing this to threaten, provoke a response from or a move out of Player B. You, Player G may see it happening, but you are ignorant of the broader board state & which victory conditions everyone is going for. Maybe with deep analysis you might be able to suss out a reason or purpose behind the gesture, but it's probably futile and definitely a waste of your time if you're obsessed with countering someone else's strategy instead of furthering your own. 

This is incredibly reductive, since there isn't moral or ethical baggage with Civ and winning via military or cultural routes over banking or science. Honestly you should be offended by child abuse and human trafficking and active work to disarm it where you see it. But this story being leaked is definitely intentional, and you're just a bystander. We're probably all useful idiots for digging dangerously close to info and spreading it closer to the people that it's intended for, considering how many glow-in-the-darks lurk forums like this between coffee breaks.


----------



## GhostButt (Nov 20, 2019)

Where Do You Find Them? said:


> People have tried really, really hard to make things fit where they just don't. Every joke or conversation that isn't obvious without context probably isn't a secret code that everyone under the sun is in on.



At least half of the pizzagate "lingo" could be referring to _adult _prostitutes or cocaine. Easily.


----------



## Jamila (Nov 20, 2019)

GhostButt said:


> At least half of the pizzagate "lingo" could be referring to _adult _prostitutes or cocaine. Easily.


Or it could just be terrible boomer businessman humor. The shit reads like Roger Sterling emailing Don Draper.


----------



## Death Grip (Nov 20, 2019)

I have no idea if Comet Ping-pong is what it is made out to be but these posts from their Instagram definitely weird me out:


----------



## XYZpdq (Nov 20, 2019)

hey who doesn't say a bunch of weird crazy shit about pizza and map napkins and hot dogs
lots of people because we don't rape kids lol


----------



## Perspicacity (Nov 20, 2019)

XYZpdq said:


> hey who doesn't say a bunch of weird crazy shit about pizza and map napkins and hot dogs
> lots of people because we don't rape kids lol


Map handkerchiefs are a popular tourist thing, we talked about this a lot 3 years ago. Google souvenir handkerchief maps for a refresher.

Are we really going over Podesta and Pizzagate again? Does no one actually want to talk about the actual Finder's case files in this thread? SATAN RITUAL SACRIFICE OF CHILDREN!!!!! SATANIST PEDOPHILES!! I READ THE FIRST PAGE!!!! SATANIC PRESCHOOL! That's what that map was placed right in the front of these documents to do, it also has nothing to do with the Finder's case.


----------



## XYZpdq (Nov 20, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> Map handkerchiefs are a popular tourist thing, we talked about this a lot 3 years ago. Google souvenir handkerchief maps for a refresher.


I've lived in Florida my entire life and I've never heard of those lol
looking at google they appear to be from a hundred years ago and or Europe


----------



## Perspicacity (Nov 20, 2019)

XYZpdq said:


> I've lived in Florida my entire life and I've never heard of those lol
> looking at google they appear to be from a hundred years ago and or Europe


They were quite common in the 60s, still common overseas I think. My sister got me one as a souvenir years ago, it was a map of London. Also just another quick note here. Billionaires harvesting organs doesn't make a whole lot of sense, seeing that you can literally regrow your own organ from stem cells. The technology already exists to do this and if your a billionaire I don't see how that would be a problem getting your hands on it. This would also pose no risk of rejection. Also let's say your old, you can choose a young relative with a frozen umbilical cord to make the organ instead. With the technology we have now black market organs for billionaires doesn't make much sense to me.


----------



## AnOminous (Nov 20, 2019)

Perspicacity said:


> They were quite common in the 60s, still common overseas I think. My sister got me one as a souvenir years ago, it was a map of London.



Why do you rape kids for Satan?  I bet you eat pizza too you evil bastard.


----------



## tampax pearl (Nov 25, 2019)

Can speak from experience, intense childhood trauma will typically result in fragmentation of the personality of the child to allow the mind to survive.
Anyway, a NOMAP I used to be friends with tried to get me institutionalized for talking about shit like this. You mention the Finders, people will think you're bat-shit crazy, off your rocker. Said I threatened to kill him for "exposing it." Never did, ofc. Apologies for the thread derail but you might want to keep your eyes on Lecter the MAP and people like that. Kankri the Grubphile had a father working for the government; the father was a psychologist. Make of it what you will.


----------



## Oglooger (Jul 5, 2020)

Napalm Pissbaby said:


> Nobody here seems to understand what’s actually going on. Let me explain.
> 
> Thousands of years ago, the Canaanites founded a colony named Carthage. This particular ethnic group was also referred to as the Phoenicians or Punics. They had a very advanced culture for the time. They invented coinage. They had sophisticated trade networks and a powerful military that would eventually go toe-to-toe in a stalemate with Rome.
> 
> ...


So what you're saying is that Catrthage Delenda est


----------



## Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth (Jul 5, 2020)

Oglooger said:


> So what you're saying is that Catrthage Delenda est



 I believe it's actually Carthago delenda est. 

Plus there's the small fact that Hannibal died in 180-81 BC and the third punic war wasn't until 146 BC or so. So, you know, not a lot to do with the third war...pretty big name during the second though.


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jul 5, 2020)

Orange Rhymer said:


> Sounds like gaslighting. But gaslighting seems to be the game plan for this stuff..
> 
> Satanic Panic obvious fraud -> hides the actual Finders conspiracies
> Pizzagate conspiracy and it's MSM mocking -> hiding Epstein and the child trafficking for the power elite
> ...


I love how rational most people here are about this. When it comes to conspiracy theories, we're often dealing with grains of truth clouded by webs of lies.

Semper fi, kiwis.



Napalm Pissbaby said:


> The key points are this:
> 
> 
> These people are not Jews. They do not practice Judaism. They are polytheists, believe in the old Canaanite pantheon, and practice child sacrifice and have done so for millennia. If any of them claims to be an Israelite, they are merely wearing their claims of Jewish ancestry as a mask to deflect criticism.
> ...


I haven't looked at information on the black nobility yet, but I gotta say a lot of this sounds wrong.

- From the point of view of someone irreligious who doesn't think Jews or Canaanites are special, it seems unlikely that they'd still be practicing Canaanite religion. Some of their children who have left their clan would have spoken up. The Canaanite idea sounds engineered to appeal to Christians since they're biblical baddies.

-Over the course of thousands of years, cultures erode and change. No plan lasts that long.

-If the black nobility was ultra wealthy and already ruled the world, why would they need more gold? The idea of Nazi gold sounds engineered to appeal to us plebs because we've all grown up with stories of secret treasures.

-Alphabet agencies have different goals and their allegiances shift.

- Blaming all tragedies on occult rituals sounds naive. There are definitely government secrets surrounding 9/11 (probably unrelated to religion or human sacrifice, I might add) but lone wolf murderers seem like random psychos more often than not. There are fucked up people in this world. If victims of human sacrifice were needed, homeless third worlders would attract less attention than Westerners.

- "Mind control" isn't that reliable and anyways, raping kids wouldn't be the ideal way of doing it. If you want to know how mind control works, look at the way cults control their members. Look at propaganda and marketing tactics. Look at how religion has managed to brainwash people into thinking suicide is noble.

I'm sure there's more unlikely (and probably disprovable) claims in there but those are the things that stuck out to me at first glance.


----------



## Crankenstein (Aug 13, 2020)

And still nothing of substance has been done about this.


----------



## AnOminous (Aug 13, 2020)

Crankenstein said:


> And still nothing of substance has been done about this.



Probably anything in it short of murder is past statute of limitations that existed at the time.


----------



## Larry David's Crypto Fund (Mar 23, 2022)

Necroing this because the current SCOTUS pick is extremely relevant to the content of this thread.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Mar 23, 2022)

Kamov Ka-52 said:


> Can this timeline stop being completely bizarre


Current Year could finally go back to being "the present" again.


----------



## Existential MD (Mar 23, 2022)

Larry David's Opera Cape said:


> Necroing this because the current SCOTUS pick is extremely relevant to the content of this thread.
> 
> View attachment 3099498View attachment 3099499


Gonna have to agree with the Judge here, this is not actually a left-wing opinion.  Regardless of one's thoughts on the shady weirdness of Comic Pizza.  

You either aren't familiar with this guy's case or waay overestimate the judgment, honesty, and intelligence of your fellow citizens.  Not wise to absolve any rando who says the internet memes made him do an attempted murder


----------



## AnOminous (Mar 23, 2022)

Larry David's Opera Cape said:


> Necroing this because the current SCOTUS pick is extremely relevant to the content of this thread.
> 
> View attachment 3099498View attachment 3099499


That said, the sentence seems entirely reasonable to me.  While it's substantial enough in punishing the defendant's conduct, it does not seem to be some crazy SJW vengeful sentence.  That guy needed to go away.  You just don't go into restaurants because you read dumb shit on 4chan and start spraying bullets.


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Mar 24, 2022)

millais said:


> There's probably some level of weird insular, institutional desensitization to common societal norms and morality, but also the type of career ladder-climbers who succeed and thrive in that kind of work environment and culture are psychologically abnormal from the get go


Mate everything you write is always well thought out and as concise as it needs to be.


----------



## ⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ (May 21, 2022)

I was interested to see this getting some mention in basic-bitch left wing circles, with an interview with a reporter who'd looked closely into the Finders and Franklin Credit on Chapo Trap House.


			https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/628-real-detective-feat-nick-bryant-51622


----------



## Cpl. Long Dong Silver (May 21, 2022)

Man the elites really love fucking kids


----------



## namvata (Dec 19, 2022)

⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛ said:


> I was interested to see this getting some mention in basic-bitch left wing circles, with an interview with a reporter who'd looked closely into the Finders and Franklin Credit on Chapo Trap House.
> 
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/628-real-detective-feat-nick-bryant-51622


Necroing yet again to say Felix Biedermann's uncle Jerry laundered money for the Pritzkers (the same pritzkers that appeared on the epstein flight logs and are currently bankrolling the tranny agenda) at Castle Bank and Trust alongside Burton Kanter, and the chapo fag house members block you on twitter if you bring this up to them. It's really interesting how a lot of these "dirtbag left"/breadtube figures keep getting found out to have links to the CIA. Remember when it was revealed that socialism done left's grandfather was involved with the bay of pigs invasion? Pepperidge farm remembers


----------



## Wormy (Dec 20, 2022)

If only I could take this shit back to the early 2000's and show it to the conservatives who insisted we needed the CIA to tap all our phones or The Terrorists Win.


----------



## namvata (Dec 20, 2022)

Wormy said:


> If only I could take this shit back to the early 2000's and show it to the conservatives who insisted we needed the CIA to tap all our phones or The Terrorists Win.


If only the shitlibs who opposed these things at the time weren't currently singing the praises of the deep state and the war machine to protect them from the MAGAt boogeyman and putler. Almost as if those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Granted, it would be pretty swell if cuckservatives under Bush knew the national security state they supported to keep them safe from  ̶C̶I̶A̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶a̶l̶s̶e̶ ̶f̶l̶a̶g̶s terrorism would be turned against them


----------



## Orange Rhymer (Dec 24, 2022)

namvata said:


> If only the shitlibs who opposed these things at the time weren't currently singing the praises of the deep state and the war machine to protect them from the MAGAt boogeyman and putler. Almost as if those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Granted, it would be pretty swell if cuckservatives under Bush knew the national security state they supported to keep them safe from  ̶C̶I̶A̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶a̶l̶s̶e̶ ̶f̶l̶a̶g̶s terrorism would be turned against them


PL: I was telling people earlier that everything they say on the phone is recorded.
They wanted to lock me up.

Now: "Yeah, well, so what? If you aren't doing anything bad...."

you never can win with NPCs....


----------



## Ebonic Tutor (Dec 24, 2022)

namvata said:


> Necroing yet again to say Felix Biedermann's uncle Jerry laundered money for the Pritzkers (the same pritzkers that appeared on the epstein flight logs and are currently bankrolling the tranny agenda) at Castle Bank and Trust alongside Burton Kanter, and the chapo fag house members block you on twitter if you bring this up to them. It's really interesting how a lot of these "dirtbag left"/breadtube figures keep getting found out to have links to the CIA. Remember when it was revealed that socialism done left's grandfather was involved with the bay of pigs invasion? Pepperidge farm remembers



And a lot of bread-tube and chapo people come from Something Awful, which is notorious for having a similar culture as to KF til about 4-5 years into it's existence. I sorta think that place was a trial run for how the glowies planned on handling the greater internet. I remember most the things we hate today about the modern net started there.


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## namvata (Dec 24, 2022)

Orange Rhymer said:


> Now: "Yeah, well, so what? If you aren't doing anything bad...."


people still using the "you shouldn't care if you have nothing to hide" argument in 2022 is a testament to the effectiveness of the boiling frog effect on humans


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## AnOminous (Dec 24, 2022)

namvata said:


> people still using the "you shouldn't care if you have nothing to hide" argument in 2022 is a testament to the effectiveness of the boiling frog effect on humans


And suddenly, the very people saying that shit completely change their tone when you start doxing their own hidden nasties.


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