# A Final Solution to the Proving Grounds Problem



## Null (Dec 7, 2019)

Proving Grounds is shit and has been shit for years. It actively stagnates the entire site, bottlenecks up and coming content behind a gate, and the keyholders are anyone who feels like dealing with it with no real set of standards. It was originally set up to stop lazy, shitty personal army threads, but the daunting task of writing what essentially amounts to a full biography and the de facto requisite of a full dox (even though I have never, ever officiated the requirement for personally identifying information to make a thread) puts off basically everyone except people who just don't even bother to try and pump out whatever they feel like.

The way I see it, there are two things we can do for PG.

1. Promote 2 or 3 hyper-autistics willing to format OPs for people to meet some sort of real standard that can be empirically met and easily understood.
2. Remove it and just delete the worst of the new threads that get made.

I've wanted to make all on-topic threads wiki articles that anyone can edit and which keeps history, but I have some concerns with that and I quite frankly just don't feel like putting all the effort required to create the feature as it's more complicated than it looks like at a glance.


There are serious problems in that the only mod who really looks at PG is Ride and Zed, who have very narrow definitions of what is a valid thread. I'm not trying to call them out, imagine if any one or two people were responsible for deciding what would be a valid topic here. It would immediately, necessarily rule out about 98% of the content of the site.

A lot of people we talk about on the forum would never, ever get a thread today because the OP standards are so tight so needlessly. The idea of just letting a thread through and seeing what happens was something that was around for years until we tightened the belt that almost nothing gets through until after something big happens. In the old days, we just let threads that seemed boring get zero posts and die naturally.

If this thread doesn't find a way to make #1 work I am just going to go with #2 in a week or so. I feel this is the biggest problem with the site at the moment. There are a lot of threads just decaying in the bowels of PG which could have been funny, could have had some life to it, could have attracted new users, and could have sparked the drama that would have made it a popular thread.


Edit: Something I forgot to mention is that PG is dark to everyone except senior users. This was because we had an issue of shit OPs posting threads on trannies who would then immediately DFE because someone would tip them off to the new thread before we had any chance to archive everything. This also doesn't help threads get through (especially since first time posters will see an empty forum which is daunting).


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## Trombonista (Dec 7, 2019)

I support Option 2.


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## Bitch Kitten (Dec 7, 2019)

Maybe pick a couple of the most active users making thread suggestions in PG to be supervisors. Otherwise, on a forum of 30k users, the mods are still going to be deleting and cleaning up threads and those threads would probably just get deleted instead of the opportunity for the OP to be fixed.

Currently, the standards aren't very explicit and the examples for a "good" OP are old and outdated. If you go by 2016 and earlier standards, of course they're going to be shit threads compared to what there is today.


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## JektheDumbass (Dec 7, 2019)

Burn it all, let God sort it out.


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## Aria (Dec 7, 2019)

option 2.


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## Ann Berlin (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2 and have the turbo-autists prune the other boards instead?


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## zyclonPD (Dec 7, 2019)

I'd like to make a suggestion. Take Op away from the masses and turn new threads into a mod thing. Make a thread topic a sales pitch in PG where instead of them trying to formulate a thread they give a convincing argument as to why person needs thread. The community can research the person as a whole and the mod is the one who basically copy pastes info from the various posts into the Op of a new thread once it reaches a satisfactory level in the PG.

Lot of threads have dead OP's who never update anything even ones like Comicsgate started by Neural. Maybe RandomJoe9935 shouldn't be the one making Ops in the first place anymore.

Edit: also give some basic instructions on formatting info updates to be added to the op. So posters in the thread can formulate an addition and tag the Op mod to copy paste the info as necessary and add to it. At least in the way a thread may actually be updated to the point of getting a basic rundown on a cow doesn't involve reading 300+ pages to even get accurate or relevant info on the cow itself. In it's current state most OP's of a thread are so outdated it might as well be a different person.


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## The Un-Clit (Dec 7, 2019)

Yeah. Ride absolutely comes off as a bit of a narrow-focus hardass, and currently the Proving Grounds are stuffed full of fail with some potentially good cow threads just petering out.  

I would agree with nuking it, and just make sure there are enough moderators in Lolcows so that there will always be at least one on who can quickly vet any new cow threads to filter out obvious trolling and spergery, and maybe offer some tips to improve the opening post if needed.


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## Tetra (Dec 7, 2019)

I liked the way the old system worked. I'd go with option 2 but mix in option 1 if new/better information comes out.

For instance I've seen a few old OPs have a mod edit at the top linking you to some other post later on in the thread that has a better would-be OP


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## Double Dee (Dec 7, 2019)

Nuke it and make a new one, possibly with a new mod? I second zyclonPD's idea of making it a pitch thing, or maybe making it like the TTS board, where a few turbo-autists could help people formulate a decent OP in quiet before throwing it to the fire.


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## Gordon Cole (Dec 7, 2019)

>PG is the problem
>Not A&H


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## ProgKing of the North (Dec 7, 2019)

I look at it this way: even if the OP is shit, we can still have fun dunking on OP instead of the thread subject


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## AnOminous (Dec 7, 2019)

Ride and Zed both have a very good grasp on what makes a good thread and a good OP, but some good threads have shitty OPs.  Option 2 (delete the worst) would be fine.  Maybe they could slightly lower their standards if they're not approving threads but simply deleting the worst ones.


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## Doctor of Autism (Dec 7, 2019)

I agree @zyclonPD's idea of pitching cows and seeing who'd be worthy of a thread as a way to filter out proposed cows that are in line with: "OOH THIS GUY WAS MEAN TO ME ONLINE/IRL THIS IS WHY HE'S THE WORST!"


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## Angry Shoes (Dec 7, 2019)

To me it seems like having PG as one shitty board is better than playing wack-a-mole all over the site deleting shitty new threads.


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## Ellesse_warrior (Dec 7, 2019)

We already have a thread on updating OPs so it could probably just be utilised more if the proving grounds goes. Adding more mods to the proving grounds and maybe update the guidelines for OPs might help too if you decide to keep it. Proving grounds kind of keeps all the shit in one place. Maybe potential cows should be pitched before a thread can be started in the proving grounds to weed out the worst ones.


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## Coelacanth (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2 sounds good if you've got a good quality control squad imo.


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## L. Ron Hubbard's Cat (Dec 7, 2019)

It seems like the biggest problem is just defining a "good" OP. There's a lot of ways to handle the actual creation -- @zyclonPD 's sales pitch idea, for instance, or making up some kind of template/checklist that a person would have to match before submitting a new thread for mod revision/approval  -- but the question really seems to be communicating what the standards _are. _Option 1 would only really work if the autists in question had the data to format in the first place, and collecting that seems like the job of the person proposing the thread.

It's really not hard to come up with a process (if that's what you want) provided people know what the input needs to be and what the outcome is meant to look like.


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## BrunoMattei (Dec 7, 2019)

I always thought the Proving Grounds sub-forum was a stupid idea. I go with Option 2 and if fuckfaces keep posting garbage just revoke thread starting privileges for them. They can still reply to threads but not make their own.



GargoyleGorl said:


> It seems like the biggest problem is just defining a "good" OP. There's a lot of ways to handle the actual creation -- @zyclonPD 's sales pitch idea, for instance, or making up some kind of template/checklist that a person would have to match before submitting a new thread for mod revision/approval  -- but the question really seems to be communicating what the standards _are. _Option 1 would only really work if the autists in question had the data to format in the first place, and collecting that seems like the job of the person proposing the thread.
> 
> It's really not hard to come up with a process (if that's what you want) provided people know what the input needs to be and what the outcome is meant to look like.



Agreed. My thread for Low Tier God wasn't the greatest formatted thread (It was my first when I was still somewhat new around here) but then that took off with @Dragoonism leading the charge.


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## Jaded Optimist (Dec 7, 2019)

Delete it, plenty of good threads have shitty o.ps.  I also think it's stopping potentially interesting threads because people don't think to put threads that aren't about someone in proving grounds (like B.P's plastic surgery thread for example).


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## Trollita (Dec 7, 2019)

I lurk. (Finally squatted my favorite screenname because I’m being spoofed and figured I’d plant a flag here.)

I know no system is perfect, but I’m inclined to believe PG functions as a containment area. Just lending my perspective as a humble lurker here.


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## Jack Awful (Dec 7, 2019)

Combine the two.

Delete the board and have the promoted autists format the threads that have potential, but have shitty OPs.


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## Mushroom Soup (Dec 7, 2019)

Turn PG into a section for inactive/uninteresting cow threads. New threads are made in the Lolcow section, if they are inactive they get moved to the Aborted Lolcow section. If they become active again they get moved back into the regular Lolcow section, etc.


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## mindlessobserver (Dec 7, 2019)

Rather then nuking proving grounds, perhaps turn it less into a development hell and more into an entry forum. All new threads go in and after 48 hours a mod will move it to the relevant forum or delete it if it's objectively terrible. Make the standards more realistic as well. If a thread doesnt have enough material to sustain itself it will fall to the bottom of the forum and be forgotten about anyway.


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## Clockwork_PurBle (Dec 7, 2019)

I tend to agree with Trollita: it's shit but I think it's probably better in the long run to have a containment area for the shit.

However, there are also plenty of active threads out of proving grounds that have shit OPs, or at least OPs that haven't been updated in forever and are missing a good 70% of the cow's "story" or current state (like the Onision one).


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## Zvantastika (Dec 7, 2019)

I don't think that mods need to format OPs thread for it to work, instead just make some sort of a list that mods can check and let OP know what it lacks for the thread to work. A simple list should do, like:

Title with cow most used username(s), no real name required.
When did the cow started being exceptionally relevant.
How did it got found out.
WHAT makes it a cow.
Why is it still funny.
2 examples of most recent meltdowns or shenanigans.
We don't need a full bio of the cow, we don't need to know every single thing the cow has done since its birth, we don't need a million screenshots of the cow face or reuploads of its content, we just need a very quick summary of why it is funny, the rest will come after it catch people interest.

Anyway, I guess having a better guideline on how to properly make a thread and making it more simple for the OP instead of manually correcting them is the way to go. 

Purge the old threads tho, nobody cared then, nobody will care now.


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## whatever I feel like (Dec 7, 2019)

Glad to see it go, it really has led to stagnation.


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## ThinkThankThunk (Dec 7, 2019)

From my admittedly little time on the site, I don't think I've seen any noteworthy threads come from the Proving Grounds in the last year or so. If anything the opposite is true - most of the high volume threads I've seen lately are made in Multimedia or General Discusssion to sidestep PG, with little or no information added to the OP at first. ProJared and the Weeb Wars shit come to mind - they're high traffic and have very dedicated readers, but I don't think for a second most of what those threads started out with would have made it out of PG in time for them to take off.

I have a small anecdote that while irrelevant to most other users experiences, I think it highlights my problems with PG. My only attempt at trying to write an OP for Proving Grounds was making a Mumkey OP before any of the big drama hit. I had a chronology of his fuck-ups and friends written, but it didn't have any doxes and it seemed poorly written so I just shitcanned it. A week or two later someone made a thread on him in Multimedia circumventing PG and only had an embedded video and only wrote something along the lines of "this is Mumkey, here's a video about him". It soured me on the idea of the Proving Grounds because even with a very blah start, the thread and OP turned out great; almost certainly better than mine would have been because it gave other users a chance to add their own understanding of events to the discussion. If better and more popular threads can be made without PG's restrictions, why bother with it? I say get rid of Proving Grounds, and if it floods other boards with low quality shit too much just reinstate it as is.


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## Twinkie (Dec 7, 2019)

OPs can always be improved later. The chantal thread has one of the worst OPs on this site and it might hit 2000 pages before 2020  someone is working on an OP right now and it's gon b gud


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## Zebedee (Dec 7, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> Rather then nuking proving grounds, perhaps turn it less into a development hell and more into an entry forum. All new threads go in and after 48 hours a mod will move it to the relevant forum or delete it if it's objectively terrible. Make the standards more realistic as well. If a thread doesnt have enough material to sustain itself it will fall to the bottom of the forum and be forgotten about anyway.



Seconded, only the strong threads survive.


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## Burning Fanatic (Dec 7, 2019)

Honestly, I don't think PG is in such a terrible spot. I've seen a number of users, myself included, offer feedback toward improving OPs. Sometimes the Original Posters listen and try to improve it right away, while other times they ignore it and do nothing. In which case, I think it's best as to promote OPs that have potential (in terms of substantive subject matter) and throw out ones that go nowhere.

Ultimately, I'd like to help out, though would rather not have to reformat or rewrite for other people entirely via Option 1.


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## Freya (Dec 7, 2019)

It's lame to put in work making a new thread only for it to be deleted along with a mod barking at you about how you're 
 butthurt and nobody will find your thread interesting. 
If you build it, autistics will come


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## The Cunting Death (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2 Electric Boogaloo
Also happy early birthday null


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## StrawberryDouche (Dec 7, 2019)

I think whatever you decide, there needs to be standards, or there needs to be no standards at all.

For example: is archiving videos and SM accounts a standard or not?

If there are no minimum standards to be met, then it's just going to be an exceptional free-for-all of vengeance threads and low effort unfunny shit. It sounds like that would be making work for yourself and your mods and no one needs more work.

I really like the idea of The Pitch. If the pitch is good, then there can be a group effort (if need be) at writing and gathering and archiving info. Then, someone who is good at formatting can post it. Maybe put the pitch up for a vote first to see if it moves forward into writing and compiling?

For example: that Molly Woodward thread has a damn good cow just languishing because the OP is absolutely unreadable rage wanking SHIT, BUT, there is a poster there who seems to be open to doing some work.


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## BrunoMattei (Dec 7, 2019)

Senor Cardgage Mortgage said:


> Option 2 Electric Boogaloo
> Also happy early birthday null



Option 2: The Legend of Curly's Gold.

FFS man.


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## Lesbian Sleepover (Dec 7, 2019)

Leave it intact with refreshed guidelines.


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## Horus (Dec 7, 2019)

I am leaning towards keeping PG, however, have some clearly defined rules for a post there.   These new hypothetical rules don't have to be super strict, but it also needs to be more then just a screenshot and a link to a social media account of some kind.
Basically some info on the person in question, and a basic argument on why said person is a lolcow should be enough to "prove" the thread and move it to the appropriate area of the site.
This can be followed up with some sort of inactivity timer.  If a newly moved thread is not getting traction, it can be moved to an archive dump.


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## BSV (Dec 7, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> Rather then nuking proving grounds, perhaps turn it less into a development hell and more into an entry forum. All new threads go in and after 48 hours a mod will move it to the relevant forum or delete it if it's objectively terrible. Make the standards more realistic as well. If a thread doesnt have enough material to sustain itself it will fall to the bottom of the forum and be forgotten about anyway.


this right here, I think it wise to have at least a small buffer.


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## Freddy Freaker (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2. Besides, we might get some nice milk from idiots who think we're the alt-right doxxxxxxxxxx squad or something


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## lightswitchdoll (Dec 7, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> Rather then nuking proving grounds, perhaps turn it less into a development hell and more into an entry forum. All new threads go in and after 48 hours a mod will move it to the relevant forum or delete it if it's objectively terrible. Make the standards more realistic as well. If a thread doesnt have enough material to sustain itself it will fall to the bottom of the forum and be forgotten about anyway.


I voted option 2 before I read the rest of the thread but I actually think this is a better idea. And if it stays dark then it still gives people 48hrs to archive everything before the cow nukes their shit.


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## Syaoran Li (Dec 7, 2019)

I'd go with Option 2.

Proving Grounds was an idea that was a good concept in theory but was horribly executed and I think it ended up doing a lot more harm than good.

Usagi Kou has recently been confirmed to be active once more, going from Web 1.0 lolcow to Web 2.0 horrorcow and she'd be perfect for a Beauty Parlor thread, but her thread in Proving Grounds got locked because of formatting issues with the OP and I think that thread is a prime example of Proving Grounds being a failure.

If a thread shows potential, it will grow organically as long as there's material worth discussing and if the lolcow turns out to be a boring nothingburger, then the thread will die out eventually and languish in obscurity.

The really crappy threads that are obvious personal army requests will get deleted, of course.


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## Big Nasty (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2.

Proving Grounds may be the reason why the last major person of interest was Yaniv, and that was over a year ago.


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## Christ Cried (Dec 7, 2019)

This might be a stupid point, but I've noticed many great threads only become great once the cow in question takes notice of it and starts engaging. That is less likely to happen if the thread is gated. Option 2 seems good.


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## Pina Colada (Dec 7, 2019)

Both aren't bad options, but I'm leaning towards the second one. Just focus on the threads with more activity, but aren't centered on weéning or off-topic debates.


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## Duncan Hills Coffee (Dec 7, 2019)

I voted option 2. To be frank, the standards are absurdly high.

A while back I wanted to make a thread on Bam Margera because the guy's been in a huge downward spiral that's both funny and sad to watch. The only thread that kept up with it was that A&H thread about the Jackass crew but I thought it needed its own thread.

At the same time though, the sheer effort that would have to go into it like all the archived material and basically explain Bam's life up until that point killed the drive I had to make the thread. I have time to shitpost but I don't really have the time to make a writing project that might not even take off.

I get the reasoning for it since a shitty OP can easily kill an interesting topic and there are a lot of spergs out there who wouldn't think twice about making personal army threads, but in practice I think it prevents people from really exploring interesting lolcows because in some cases there just isn't much to say.


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## Critically Correct (Dec 7, 2019)

I’m making it work you newb


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## mindlessobserver (Dec 7, 2019)

Horus said:


> I am leaning towards keeping PG, however, have some clearly defined rules for a post there.   These new hypothetical rules don't have to be super strict, but it also needs to be more then just a screenshot and a link to a social media account of some kind.
> Basically some info on the person in question, and a basic argument on why said person is a lolcow should be enough to "prove" the thread and move it to the appropriate area of the site.
> This can be followed up with some sort of inactivity timer.  If a newly moved thread is not getting traction, it can be moved to an archive dump.



The 5 Ws are IMO the gold standard for anything you write about, not just a kiwifarms thread.

Who
What
When
Where
Why

All good threads should answer each.

Who is this person?
What do they do?
When have they done or are going to do it?
Where are they doing it?
Why should anyone else care?

You dont need a crap ton of materials or archives to answer each. Just enough to establish things.


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## xX_rAcE_wAr_420_Xx (Dec 7, 2019)

It's probably a more efficient use of moderator effort to just monitor newer / slower threads and make sure they're not total garbage. Plenty of OPs start out with less information, but after a while the thread amasses a ton of stuff - as long as the OP gets updated enough, it's totally golden. 

Also, having arbitrary and autistic rules for starting threads is Reddit-tier.


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## FramerGirl420 (Dec 7, 2019)

I vote option two. When I go cruising for new cows I ignore PG entirely. Those threads either stagnate immediately or are just full of ppl debating over where the OP is good or not. Just allow new threads and what is shit will die on its own and those that are interesting will grow on their own. 
PG was a good idea in theory but in practice it’s a failure.


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## Ruin (Dec 7, 2019)

Can someone explain to me why a site that thrives on user generated needs garbage like this at all? Even on Turbo shitholes like Something Awful and Resetera users can make threads on the main site without mod approval.


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## Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth (Dec 7, 2019)

>imagine if any one or two people were responsible for deciding what would be a valid topic here. It would immediately, necessarily rule out about 98% of the content of the site.



zyclonPD said:


> I'd like to make a suggestion. Take Op away from the masses and turn new threads into a mod thing.



How does that help a few users making the choice?




Gordon Cole said:


> >PG is the problem
> >Not A&H



Stay mad deep thot.


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## Unog (Dec 7, 2019)

Null said:


> This was because we had an issue of shit OPs posting threads on trannies who would then immediately DFE because someone would tip them off to the new thread before we had any chance to archive everything.



My problem with #2 is how do you fix this potential problem without PG?

Also I vote for @zyclonPD 's idea, I think it sounds pretty neat.


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## Ghostse (Dec 7, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> Rather then nuking proving grounds, perhaps turn it less into a development hell and more into an entry forum. All new threads go in and after 48 hours a mod will move it to the relevant forum or delete it if it's objectively terrible. Make the standards more realistic as well. If a thread doesnt have enough material to sustain itself it will fall to the bottom of the forum and be forgotten about anyway.



I was going to suggest the same thing. PG stays as a solid waste filter for new threads. Mods have 48 hours to nuke the cringiest of the personal army threads, and the rest auto-approve where the userbase can decide if they are worth discussion.


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## beautiful person (Dec 7, 2019)

I like the idea of PG as kind of a hidden drafting forum, where you can start the work on an OP and archiving (and maybe get help from more experienced users), without the cow seeing and deleting everything. But I'm not sure of the ettiquette of posting a half-finished OP there, and it feels like if I don't have all the "automatic failure" requirements filled before posting, that it would get rejected before I'm actually done. So the pressure to get the OP "right" the first time is still there, and makes the effort seem more hassle than it's worth.


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## Superman93 (Dec 7, 2019)

I completely disagree with Zed and Ride having narrow standards and @Burning Fanatic can attest to this because he too also frequently watches for good new threads. Faggots complaining about 'muh gatekeeping' are just upset because they refuse to put any effort into creating a proper OP.  Just look at this recent example:





						Kevin/Davies/Alexander/Whiteoak
					

So I know a guy locally who is an unbelievable sight. His real name is Kevin, but he goes by the fake name Alexander Whiteoak (for reasons no one can decifer)  He is currently running for president with zero supporters. His platform is a bunch of neo-scientific jargon no one understands. He...




					kiwifarms.net
				



No archives, the way the title is formatted is dogshit and he doesn't even try to make the post funny. I think PG is a good idea filtering out shit threads. 

Another thing thats great about PG is that is makes people think twice about rather a thread should continue to be created or not. It also distinguishes this website from other shit lolcow observing forums/sites because content is properly curated.  


The new threads people have been creating are just shit. Pure and Simple and people need to get better.


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## Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth (Dec 7, 2019)

No, seriously. Could someone please explain how making new threads even less likely to be made by giving only mods the ability to make them will cause an explosion of new content that doesn't get kneecapped early?


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## Samoyed (Dec 7, 2019)

PG is bad. kill it. if I wanted to write a whole paper I'd do it somewhere else. Just let people post threads and let the shitty ones die.


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## Pissmaster (Dec 7, 2019)

Duncan Hills Coffee said:


> I voted option 2. To be frank, the standards are absurdly high.
> 
> A while back I wanted to make a thread on Bam Margera because the guy's been in a huge downward spiral that's both funny and sad to watch. The only thread that kept up with it was that A&H thread about the Jackass crew but I thought it needed its own thread.
> 
> ...





beautiful person said:


> I like the idea of PG as kind of a hidden drafting forum, where you can start the work on an OP and archiving (and maybe get help from more experienced users), without the cow seeing and deleting everything. But I'm not sure of the ettiquette of posting a half-finished OP there, and it feels like if I don't have all the "automatic failure" requirements filled before posting, that it would get rejected before I'm actually done. So the pressure to get the OP "right" the first time is still there, and makes the effort seem more hassle than it's worth.



Yeah, basically these.  I've got a guy locked and loaded who hasn't even been mentioned on the farms that's perfect for a thread, but he's a schizo/horrorcow and I really don't want to gaze too deep into that abyss.  I really don't wanna watch hours and hours of videos from this guy screaming his lunacy into his camera in order to find enough intimate details to post a thread.

I'd love to just post "here's this guy and here's what I've found, look at what he's been up to" instead, and if he piques anyone's interest, they're welcome to keep the thread going.


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## Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth (Dec 7, 2019)

Pissmaster General said:


> Yeah, basically these.  I've got a guy locked and loaded who hasn't even been mentioned on the farms that's perfect for a thread, but he's a schizo/horrorcow and I really don't want to gaze too deep into that abyss.  I really don't wanna watch hours and hours of videos from this guy screaming his lunacy into his camera in order to find enough intimate details to post a thread.
> 
> I'd love to just post "here's this guy and here's what I've found, look at what he's been up to" instead, and if he piques anyone's interest, they're welcome to keep the thread going.



Right, I agree that it's sometimes nice to have that time for the bomb to gain speed before it hits but at the same time there's threads in PG that have been there for months that are in better shape than some of the live threads. There's going to be shitty threads, you can't escape that, but the idea of making it some kind of Democratic effort to build threads just sounds like herding fucking cats. 

The spicethreads must flow and we prune as needed.


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## Yaniv’s Hairy Balls (Dec 7, 2019)

I personally like the idea of hyper autistics. When You have a forum it usually doesn’t do well with out good and consistent moderation, but they’d have to know the difference between that and *over moderation*. 

I’m far from a senior member, but I’m a long time lurker who’s willing to put forth some effort if someone can point me in the right direction. To be honest, I’m probably not one you’d want moderating an entire board (I’ve never modded and I’m really new to the site) but I’ll chip in where I can. I enjoy the site and will help foster good content.


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## The Pink Panther (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 1 sounds delicious, but I know most faggots are voting Option 2.


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## Null (Dec 7, 2019)

Given the immediate community consensus, I am lifting new thread restrictions on all on-topic boards. Proving Grounds remains up because it is the only board where there is no edit time restrictions on OPs or posts for all users. I will think about how I want to deal with its existing content and how we're going to move new threads from PG out.


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## Deadpool (Dec 7, 2019)

Why not have all new threads have a poll open for a couple weeks to a month with "keep open" or "close" and let users decide on content. That way if an OP sucks there is still time for other users to dig and make it interesting and to save it and if it sucks then the users reading it can decide for themselves and vote to close it.


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## The Reaper (Dec 7, 2019)

I like the idea of making PG dark to newbies, in the sense that you cannot just run in after an account is made and go posting.  I remember making one earlier in my forum browsing experience, and while it wasn't bad Ride was correct about enough funny not being present and some formatting issues.  The thread naturally died because I couldn't find anymore and it did not generate enough interest to others on the site, so now its sitting somewhere in a locked state.  While it gave me a better idea about what a cow and thread were supposed to be there are a lot of people who burst in, make a mess of introducing a cow, and then sperg about people trying to help them correct it.  Having newbies locked out and encouraging them to look at good threads or even introduce potential cows to a more experienced forum user to help make the thread would be a benefit to me.  I like the idea of getting to the point where it is a group effort and the op is written more like a Wiki article, but in order to get that curation you'd have to start with basic introductions to garner interest.


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## SherlockMexicano (Dec 7, 2019)

Speaking of that @Null I have a complaint about internatinal threads there.

It seems like only brazilian threads get aproved  in a day or even in the same day, but other langaugues get stuck, so much of the international board is mostly portuguese while everyone else hardly ever gets something new.

My last attemp was stuck in a month, until you intervened (thanks for that).

We got a lot of people in spanish and we even discussed them, but I bet this slowness discourages everyone.


----------



## Null (Dec 7, 2019)

Well go apeshit and make all the threads you please.


----------



## war has changed (Dec 7, 2019)

The Reaper said:


> I like the idea of making PG dark to newbies, in the sense that you cannot just run in after an account is made and go posting.  I remember making one earlier in my forum browsing experience, and while it wasn't bad Ride was correct about enough funny not being present and some formatting issues.  The thread naturally died because I couldn't find anymore and it did not generate enough interest to others on the site, so now its sitting somewhere in a locked state.  While it gave me a better idea about what a cow and thread were supposed to be there are a lot of people who burst in, make a mess of introducing a cow, and then sperg about people trying to help them correct it.  Having newbies locked out and encouraging them to look at good threads or even introduce potential cows to a more experienced forum user to help make the thread would be a benefit to me.  I like the idea of getting to the point where it is a group effort and the op is written more like a Wiki article, but in order to get that curation you'd have to start with basic introductions to garner interest.



I agree with this! Since any new user is permitted to make a thread in PG, they overlook literally lurking more and seeing how things are done. 99% of the time they get chased off for not knowing etiquette and getting salty, and the cow they bring in gets discarded entirely.


----------



## BrainProlapse (Dec 7, 2019)

Deadpool said:


> Why not have all new threads have a poll open for a couple weeks to a month with "keep open" or "close" and let users decide on content. That way if an OP sucks there is still time for other users to dig and make it interesting and to save it and if it sucks then the users reading it can decide for themselves and vote to close it.


I like polls but I can see this being abused, some furry thread pops up and they get their entire discord server to try and get rid of it. 

I don't know if mods can impose a minimum participation level to vote, but that would be good.


----------



## Near (Dec 7, 2019)

I do look forward to the more leniency on threads. Sure, it's potential for absolute uninformative garbage, but a lot of the threads on here that are still ongoing, have started from less than two sentences. Of course, i'm all for providing background information and all the good stuff, and I hope to see some good shit come out of this. But when someone out there's just interesting enough, at the end of the day, barely anyone can be assed to look up a lolcow's social security number and shoe size to not get shitcanned


----------



## Deadpool (Dec 7, 2019)

BrainProlapse said:


> I like polls but I can see this being abused, some furry thread pops up and they get their entire discord server to try and get rid of it.
> 
> I don't know if mods can impose a minimum participation level to vote, but that would be good.


It could be the same seniority level as proving grounds already is.


----------



## Stranger Neighbors (Dec 7, 2019)

Null said:
			
		

> Well go apeshit and make all the threads you please.


Get ready all my niggas.
The farms is returning to the wild west era


----------



## zyclonPD (Dec 7, 2019)

I for one will follow our Supreme Feeder into the Harrowing of Hell.


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## tuscangarder (Dec 7, 2019)

Just let people make threads and if they suck they die. Proving grounds is dumb, no one goes there.


----------



## Sparky Lurker (Dec 7, 2019)

SherlockMexicano said:


> Speaking of that @Null I have a complaint about internatinal threads there.
> 
> It seems like only brazilian threads get aproved  in a day or even in the same day, but other langaugues get stuck, so much of the international board is mostly portuguese while everyone else hardly ever gets something new.
> 
> ...


The only reason Internationale Clique has so many brazilian threads is because I have the willpower of an autist, otherwise it would be D.O.A. (considering there was even a botched attempt on the past), if you check most of the BR threads they  barely leave the first page, you folks on IC just have to quit the misconception of brazilian bias, we lose in numbers here for both the germans, spanish and even the french.

I also believe your thread only got stuck on PG for such a long time is because you ended downplaying your lolcow by stating he was the spanish Yaniv, it is quite an amateurish mistake to quickly rather describe a lolcow by comparing him to a popular one, most people does that with the "Next Chris Chan"  but after a certain time you will learn that tactic is not  worthwhile at all.


----------



## Clockwork_PurBle (Dec 7, 2019)

BrainProlapse said:


> I like polls but I can see this being abused, some furry thread pops up and they get their entire discord server to try and get rid of it.
> 
> I don't know if mods can impose a minimum participation level to vote, but that would be good.


I also like the idea of polls and perhaps this could serve to fix the issue you mentioned.

So let's say I make a thread on Pedo Furry #57938214. After a day or two, open a poll. Poll lasts for one-two weeks. Make the minimum requirement to be able to vote be something like "have active membership for at least a month prior to voting." That way when furries try to make sock accounts to vote down the thread, they won't be able to. Afterwards mods can go through and check for any obvious socks/trolls that got through the system.


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## Mr. Manchester (Dec 7, 2019)

I think of all the retarded ideas ive had and how the proving grounds has stopped me.  But if its causing a probelm get rid of it.  Ill be retarded one way or another.


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## A Pox (Dec 7, 2019)

Here's my idea.

- Make Proving Grounds open to all registered members. 
- Assign hyperautists to move quality threads from Proving Grounds to the appropriate forum.
- Keep a senior user subforum for new thread creators that request help on writing a OP or finding additional information or situations where the cow can get spooked before everything can be archived.


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## Homer J. Fong (Dec 7, 2019)

As the writer of the Stuttering John Melendez thread I'd just greatly appreciate it if you freeze the thread in carbonite in the event John spergs out more as I anticipated.

Also Owen Benjamin most certainly deserves to be in the Internet Famous section for running a cult and managing to force Porsalin into an early retirement.


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## The Jumping Dwarf (Dec 7, 2019)

Kill it. It's been shit, sluggish and ineffective since Day 1. Go back to the way it was done before with everyone being free to make lolcow threads.


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## YourUnclesDad (Dec 7, 2019)

I've seen a lot of good cows be turned away because of the super high standard OP that's expected. Look at Robert McKim's thread. The OP is the laziest crap I've ever seen but it turned into one of my favorite threads here. In fact, I'd rather the OP be short and to the point. I don't want a long fucking story like I'm reading an article or a book. It makes me turn away when there's an overwhelming amount of shit to read. I bet it turns people off from showing good cows they know of in fear of it being a "shitty OP."






						Evangelist Dr. Robert McKim, Sr.
					

came across this guy having a meltdown over the past couple days on youtube concerning trolls and people he believes are trying to take over his ministry. trying to find more info on the drama, but his videos are really funny to say the least




					kiwifarms.net


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## Trig.Point (Dec 7, 2019)

If the OP is perfect and includes all relevant information from the get go, then what's the point of the thread. Shouldn't an OP be about selling the the individual as a lolcow to other users, so that they can offer their own contributions? As long as the OP ticks that one box, in addition to meeting the other forum rules, it should be allowed to go ahead. If it doesn't gain any traction it will get buried soon enough anyway. 

If proving grounds was just that, a way for a thread to be refined, through engaged criticism, with the OP incorporating in suggestions made,  that would be great. However that's not what's happening at the minute.

I think what's really missing in many threads, is the constant evolution of the original Post akin to what the lolcow WIKI was intended to do. However that's not an issue that can be identified in Proving grounds.


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## thismanlies (Dec 7, 2019)

Trig.Point said:


> If proving grounds was just that, a way for a thread to be refined, through engaged criticism, with the OP incorporating in suggestions made, that would be great. However that's not what's happening at the minute.


There could be ways to improve the board. For example, if someone writes a shitty OP (I know I have) and someone else helps that user write a better one, they can get some reward like a tag that says "Resident Tard Wrangler" or something.


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## No Exit (Dec 7, 2019)

I'd have voted option one and just try and get the mods to not be such hard asses or at least get a few with different tastes. A lot of the cows, at least in WW and AC, feel very same-y and I think it's good to have just a few select trusted people forcing some quality control. At least then someone can fast track PG threads into their respective forums instead of letting them sit there until someone feels it's good enough.


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## WeWuzFinns (Dec 7, 2019)

Option two with one or two strikes to reformat, posting excessive amounts of shit that gets deleted should result in a temporary ban


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## L50LasPak (Dec 7, 2019)

The entire point of Proving Grounds was for newbies to cut their teeth making horrendous threads in a containment zone where everyone could point and laugh at their ineptitude.

If you are not entertained, then yeah, lop its head off.


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## Strange Rope Hero (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2. 

I just like like chaos. Let the horde of worthless threads roll in and we can laugh at exceptional OPs.


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## unit2013 (Dec 7, 2019)

I say go with option 2 and move deleted threads to some type of graveyard section where new replies are disabled. This would give people the chance to see these threads and take a better whack at it.


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## The Un-Clit (Dec 7, 2019)

unit2013 said:


> I say go with option 2 and move deleted threads to some type of graveyard section where new replies are disabled. This would give people the chance to see these threads and take a better whack at it.



Now that's an interesting thought. Sort of a Purgatory Spergatory where threads rejected as shit can be reviewed to see if anything is salvagable, then after a week or two if there's no hope, auto-deleted.  I like the concept. Dunno if Null wants to bother with the effort of that or not though.  

Straight up letting natural selection go where good cow threads grow regardless of OP if the cow is viable, or shit cow threads dying on the vine and sinking below page 1 with moderators to catch the trollposts and other Internet trash that somehow made it through the registration filter to be nuked seems much simpler.


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## Weeb Slinger (Dec 7, 2019)

The heart of the problem is the failure of the natural sciences to formally recognise lolcows as an evolutionary dead-end in the taxonomic hierarchy, and come up with an appropriate nomenclature that sounds like it might be in Latin. It would make these exceptional individuals so much more easy to identify and would put an end to a lot of guesswork and speculation.  

I favour the second option, simply because you never know what information the community will have to offer on a given cow. Let the cows roam free on the boards. Arm the mods with lassos to rein-in any interlopers that don't belong in the herd.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Dec 7, 2019)

Everytime someone posts that OP is a phaggot video, I know someone’s potential is about to be buried beneath shame and trollshielding residue.  As someone who joined in the summer of 2019 and has been a member here for years (look at my kiwi dating profile if you wanna unravel that fucking riddle), i’ve seen it time and again.  I saw it with an old chat buddy, who told me to fuck off when I’d tried to participate in conversations in the earlier days when I was new.  Only one of us retarded assholes is still here today, think about that shit.

Temp-ban people who aren’t mods that shit on new threads non-constructively.  I see too many people get punished for trying to contribute to the site but not doing it in a way that meets a set of unofficial community standards you have to be here for years to even know about.


AnOminous said:


> Ride and Zed


fucking this.  People like Ride, Zed, and you are the gold standard when it comes to actual constructive behavior.


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## Odie Esty (Dec 7, 2019)

I don't really know how you'd implement it, but having the ability for multiple users to contribute and edit the OP would do a lot. every major thread opened has two or three dudes in the first dozen pages who knew the subject from high school or the home owners association or something equally retarded, but they don't ever think about making an OP themselves. Having those people able to add to the OP manually would make keeping OPs up to date a lot easier. that would help fix the farms' biggest problem: thread bloat. there's a lot of information on dudes like DSP and moviebob no one will ever see because a logs cram the threads with their inane reactions to tweets.

other than that codifying and lowering the requirements of OPs would fix most of the issues. The only real definition of lolcow is someone who can be milked continuously. an OP doesn't need to be an autobiography, just prove this person is an on going source of ridicule.


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## Coolio55 (Dec 7, 2019)

I have an idea. Option 2 with a catch. 
We have a pseudo proving grounds system on the relevant boards that hides new threads to non users (or possibly even only senior members and the OP if needed) for a certain period of time. This means that these threads are visible to the masses of users and can get quick critisism in while at the same time preventing tipping off trannies who'll insta nuke.
I'm interested in what you guys think.


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## SmileyTimeDayCare (Dec 7, 2019)

I don't care because I don't click on threads I don't want to read so...go for it.


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## mr.moon1488 (Dec 7, 2019)

Maybe make to to where posted threads are visible only to mods, and supervisors until feedback is given, and then the thread goes public.  It would be a bit of a cumbersome solution, but it would most likely improve quality.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Dec 7, 2019)

SmileyTimeDayCare said:


> I don't care because I don't click on threads I don't want to read so...go for it.


This is another outstanding attitude.  If you don’t like a thread, and don’t feel like reporting it, just don’t read the shit.  We need more people thinking like this.


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## Tasty Tatty (Dec 7, 2019)

Add a tag for new threads saying "PROVING GROUND" or some shit like that so we can help updating OP. It's not that hard, tbh.


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## Mage (Dec 7, 2019)

Its all fucked. I'll vote Option 2 to help improve the site's quality.


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## Critically Correct (Dec 7, 2019)

When there’s a mob waiting to click autistic to better their momentary perceptual reality.. Null, we have a problem.


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## A Hot Potato (Dec 7, 2019)

Critically Correct said:


> When there’s a mob waiting to click autistic to better their momentary perceptual reality.. Null, we have a problem.


lol kill yourself

Also, option 2.


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## Critically Correct (Dec 7, 2019)

At what point, Null.. do you make your difference?


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## LOWERCASE LETTERS (Dec 7, 2019)

Just shitcan it. Good threads will naturally rise to the top of whatever forum they're in and shit ones will sink into obscurity.


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## RetroCrab (Dec 7, 2019)

When I signed up I didn't understand the place and my first PG thread was shit and poisoned the well on a good cow.
What made him special was his chimping out over any criticism. A million bucks says he would've signed up here day one.

My second attempt I thought was fine but I guess they wanted a life story on the guy.
If one spends 100 hours researching a cow to get it PG approved are they really any better than the cow itself?
You have to be autistic yourself to get your posts out of PG.

A great target that died in PG _twice_ was Hushy 4lung and I warned he locked his account and would likely DFE 40K tweets soon hiding all his evidence. And he did. I wasn't going to waste my time a third time. Now you've got a popular predator out there with no evidence of their degeneracy.

Option 2 from me. Delete shit OPs like my first one. But you don't want the cows to outnumber the farmers, as these are high maintenance animals. Maybe also move dead threads (say two years with no posts) to registered users only so you don't fuck up our search engine crawl rate by filling the board with garbage.


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## A shitty ass clover (Dec 7, 2019)

I mean, i have some ideas for threads in IC but most of the times either can't make a decent OP or it stagnates in the generals, kinda like a bystander effect. Or sometimes it goes to the wrong audience, like the guy that made a DayoScript thread in english when no one really cares about him on anglo countries.

I'd say Option 1 since a nice OP can be a really pleasant read and a good summary of a lolcow.


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## crocodilian (Dec 7, 2019)

Outside of literal spam and moving threads to Main Discussion, I don't understand why Proving Grounds needs any adjustment.

•  Subject is well-documented and amusing = thread receives attention, thrives. *Will be moved to Main Discussion.*
•  Subject is well-documented but becomes inactive = thread dies, but the info is still there and chronicled. *Will be moved to Main Discussion.*
•  Subject is badly documented but amusing = OP is declared a fag, interested users pick up the slack and post info. *Could be moved, if it ends up good.*
•  Subject is badly documented and fucking boring = OP is declared a fag, thread is left to rot. *Thread doesn't move, dies.*

Isn't this how it's supposed to work? What am I missing here? 



> In the old days, we just let threads that seemed boring get zero posts and die naturally.



Why did this stop?


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## la mort (Dec 7, 2019)

IMO option 2 is better. I think we need to improve the OPs of the international clique, sometimes grammar and spelling mistakes are a disaster, but we can certainly do better. I have read some threads in Spanish and Portuguese that have a lot of potential.


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## Turd Burglar (Dec 7, 2019)

@Critically Correct, do you, by any chance, shit your pants on the regular?

On-topic, nuke it from space.


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## Hamplanet Fitness (Dec 7, 2019)

I like the proving grounds system. Ensures quality, though the standards for what makes it out seem a bit nebulous; not sure why my Saira Rao thread, for example, didn't make it out but Robin Delphine Warren did?


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## 4str4staleatherbelt (Dec 7, 2019)

I feel like allowing option 2 would result in an influx of threads by people who are  mad at the internet and make threads on people whom the OP has some personal beef with instead of finding a legit cow. Sure shit threads will be relatively dead but I imagine exceptional OPs being the ones who post the most in their own creations. This is why I voted for option 1.


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## Mapo Tofu 2 (Dec 7, 2019)

4str4staleatherbelt said:


> I feel like allowing option 2 would result in an influx of threads by people who are  mad at the internet and make threads on people whom the OP has some personal beef with instead of finding a legit cow. Sure shit threads will be relatively dead but I imagine exceptional OPs being the ones who post the most in their own creations. This is why I voted for option 1.


I thought shit threads get deleted quickly?


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## Jester69 (Dec 7, 2019)

Maybe a category where people can post whatever threads they like about whoever they want, and threads that gain a lot of traction about specific individuals get their own lolcow thread, with the OP including the details provided in the original thread.


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## Critically Correct (Dec 7, 2019)

You guys are so new at like


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## Critically Correct (Dec 7, 2019)

A poet    yungnhungrytnt @ Twitter


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## ClipBitch (Dec 7, 2019)

Digging the new direction. The site has felt kind of dead lately in regards to new content. This might help!


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## TiltdownDove (Dec 7, 2019)

What about maybe using a template for people to work from?

Have the template include in the fill boxes some of criteria to be met. This way it's formatted at least to a degree, and leaves unfilled criteria up to whoever the fuck wants to admin that shit for if a post sticks or not.

This way, you can see what the OP was going for in an easily read format for the mods, and not stomp down new ideas


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## Sam Losco (Dec 7, 2019)

If you go through with the OP as a wiki idea (which is a good one), I would suggest creating a group of users (not just mods) that you trust to be able to keep shit organized and on point, and give them the ability to edit and not just everyone on the site with an account. Make it so everyone can make a new OP/wiki page, but only this new group and above (mods/admins) can edit. The creator of the OP can edit as well, or not, and only give them edit abilities if they did a good job with the OP.

For fucks sake, if you can, restrict mobile users from starting threads (site wide) and from either: a) adding attachments, or b) putting attachments inline. Every time there is a massive screenshot, it's from a dipshit mobile user because the site scales the image down so it doesn't appear huge to them. Either that, or get a mod for Xenforo that restricts inline image size. I've seen that with other forum software, so I'm sure it's possible with Xenforo. I see these huge screenshots every where but I'm not going to flood the report feature with reports on them.

By the way, thanks for unbanning Bryan Dunn. It's great having that autistic faggot shitting up every thread he posts in again. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around the mental gymnastics you did to unban the one douchebag that you went so far as to send a C&D to.


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## BlancoMailo (Dec 7, 2019)

Null said:


> Given the immediate community consensus, I am lifting new thread restrictions on all on-topic boards. Proving Grounds remains up because it is the only board where there is no edit time restrictions on OPs or posts for all users. I will think about how I want to deal with its existing content and how we're going to move new threads from PG out.



I don't know if this function is within the coding of XenForo to easily do but is it possible to have maybe a 2-3 dark period on new cow threads, similar to how only senior users are able to see PG, in order to prevent premature OPs from causing a cow to DFE before proper archiving can be done?


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## Coke Pope (Dec 7, 2019)

Both are shit because they provide a huge potential for abuse by powerusers but I think that the option 2 is better than the option 1.


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## Dysnomia (Dec 7, 2019)

Option 2. OPs can be awful but the thread content makes up for it. If the thread goes nowhere or is full of autism just nuke it.


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## Iamthatis (Dec 7, 2019)

Clockwork_PurBle said:


> I also like the idea of polls and perhaps this could serve to fix the issue you mentioned.
> 
> So let's say I make a thread on Pedo Furry #57938214. After a day or two, open a poll. Poll lasts for one-two weeks. Make the minimum requirement to be able to vote be something like "have active membership for at least a month prior to voting." That way when furries try to make sock accounts to vote down the thread, they won't be able to. Afterwards mods can go through and check for any obvious socks/trolls that got through the system.


Would never work, all threads on alt right cows would get vote brigaded.


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## dreamworks face (Dec 7, 2019)

In October, I was thinking about starting a thread on Tracy Castro-Gill, but I did not think I could get the thread up to the standard, and it might've been fun.  That said, holy shit are there a lot of terrible threads in the proving grounds that deserved to be nuked.


----------



## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Dec 7, 2019)

The only thing I like about proving grounds is that it makes archiving things on a newly made thread easier because threads made there are only accessible to members so we can get working before the subject can DFE.

Otherwise I agree that it doesn't need to exist especially if the OP does their job properly.


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## Mr. Skeltal (Dec 7, 2019)

Never made a thread, but there seems to be a balance regarding OPs that dissuades many people from posting. 
Too little info and you're left to your own devices in the thread to figure out why some goober has a thread, too much and it becomes the autistic version of War and Peace about said goober. 

All the necessary info about who this person is, what their quirk is (why they have a thread), and major incidents should be catalogued in an OP, with the post being edited from time to time to maintain accurate info. 

To me it's perfectly reasonable for a thread on a potential lead to have sparse information; once info shows up, the OP should reflect that in a succinct manner. Canning PG may be good for finding new cows if only because it forces the thread's original poster to sink or swim and do more research if they want a good initial OP.


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## Elric of Melnibone (Dec 7, 2019)

What about splitting the proving grounds into each of the sub catagories of cows.  Animal control, beuty parlor, weeb wars, etc keeping the same general restrictions currently on it such as only vetren members being able to see it.  Then only the mods of that catagory of cow would be looking at it in order to decide if it has legs.  Im mostly going off the idea that if someone is already active enough to be amod of one catagory or another then they probably have more than a passing intrest in those types of cows.  Put a different way, if someone is an active user in only the animal control catagory (gods help them) they probably dont know much or care much about a beuty parlor cow.  Im just spit balling and this may have already been suggested or tried before.


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## DragoonSierra (Dec 7, 2019)

@Null How about a voting system on whether the Op is good enough and actively promote new proving ground threads that are ready to vote on on the front page


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## gh0stzero (Dec 7, 2019)

Stop all new threads, no new threads can ever be created starting Jan 1st 2020 and we just keep milking the same lolcows even after they are literally dead.


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## Next Task (Dec 8, 2019)

I voted option 2 but I do like the 48 hours of containment before coming out of PG idea. I've read a number of PG threads on promising cows where the OP puts their effort in, and there's some constructive criticism, OP updates the post to include more information and/or make the OP more readable ... and then it just stays in PG, never going anywhere. 

People like Adrian Harrop, Saira Rao, smug_legend, all with strong thread potential, the OPs went through the improvement process, but it didn't result in getting the thread moved out of PG. And they might not have been mega-threads, but there's lots of room in the site for smaller, niche lolcows. 

So to me, Proving Grounds is a good idea in theory, giving a thread the chance to get more relevant information in before a potential DFE and make sure it's not automatically terrible. But I'd lower the requirements for a thread to graduate onto the main boards drastically - and if it turns out the cow doesn't sustain the attention, then the thread just fades away unless they do something that gets attention, like shooting two cops.


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## Spergetti (Dec 8, 2019)

I voted option 2, but whatever you do make sure that you do it quickly. Making this announcement is going to have a chilling effect on people who want to make new threads, since they're more likely to hold off until the new process is announced and put in place.


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## Postal_Rat (Dec 8, 2019)

Personally I think we should keep the proving grounds and keep the seniority requirements to view them, but have threads move out of there after a week or so, my thinking here being that if nothing else it will make sure that things can be archived before the cow DFE


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## PlasticOwls (Dec 8, 2019)

I don't see the harm in making a big checklist listing out the criteria in what makes for a good lolcow.

After all, a good OP won't do anyone any good if the subject matter has no miIk


----------



## The Un-Clit (Dec 8, 2019)

Critically Correct said:


> You guys are so new at like



Hey pussnuts, there's a big difference between 'trolling' and 'posting stupid 1 sentence word salad and looking like the sped you are'. 

Fucking shoelace yourself.

Also,



> I voted option 2, but whatever you do make sure that you do it quickly. Making this announcement is going to have a chilling effect on people who want to make new threads, since they're more likely to hold off until the new process is announced and put in place.



As per "Update 1" Null has already lifted all thread restrictions, so new thread cows can be made in Lolcow general any time you like.


----------



## Hal (Dec 8, 2019)

Dysnomia said:


> Option 2. OPs can be awful but the thread content makes up for it. If the thread goes nowhere or is full of autism just nuke it.


I like this one


----------



## Imago (Dec 8, 2019)

Like any joke if you have to explain the lolcow, they aren't funny. If the cow is good then the OP isn't needed. Most of the threads I follow have terrible out of date OP's but the content makes up for it since they are consistently producing milk. 

My ideal OP would cover everything so if a new reader is confused about something, they can find the info in the OP, rather then asking in the thread. 

I'd choose option 1 if I thought it would get done, but we could end up with the same problem we have now, with too many tards and not enough wranglers.  I think option 2 is more realistic. But, limit thread creation to senior users. If someone has a good lead they can just TTS or PM someone. That should reduce the personal army posts.


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## Token Weeaboo (Dec 8, 2019)

Just so I understand what's going on here; when proving grounds gets removed we can make a thread on any of the places where we believe the lolcow is appropriate (lolcow genera, internetfamous, animal watch) to be at?


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## Null (Dec 8, 2019)

Token Weaboo said:


> Just so I understand what's going on here; when proving grounds gets removed we can make a thread on any of the places where we believe the lolcow is appropriate (lolcow genera, internetfamous, animal watch) to be at?


I've already made it so you can post new threads immediately to the board.

The big concern is a lack of archiving but I don't really know what to do about that beyond the education I've already put out there.


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## Quetzalcoatl (Dec 8, 2019)

Christ Cried said:


> but I've noticed many great threads only become great once the cow in question takes notice of it and starts engaging



Yes and no, a lot of the lolcows are up to defend themselves until they die. Whenever be wildly reacting to it by arguing everyone here or on other sites, trying to prove a point when there's no need, or causing random dmca/lolsuits which usually won't ever hold up properly.

But a small portion are more self-aware of what is happening and keep themselves massively on the downlow to avoid calling unwanted eyes and ears or attention on them. This is them either wanting to be alone or keeping on their same predatory behavior (hell, could be both). Depends on what they're currently doing.

Not every great thread will be a goldmine if your lolcow is basically hiding and giving nothing of value.

Also, option 2.


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## Cryonic Haunted Bullets (Dec 8, 2019)

I think that we ought to keep PG in a limited form for doing initial research on cows without them being aware.


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## Pop-Tart (Dec 8, 2019)

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/sarah-louise-helen-rolls.63920/

Maybe limit thread creation to threads atleast 1 month old or something.


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## queerape (Dec 8, 2019)

I agree it's unfair to the users of the site that if a threat makes it past PG is dependent on one or two people's opinions. Not that Ride and Zed were doing a bad job of it, but they have preferences on what makes a good thread; as something highly subjective I would expect plenty of other users have other equally tenable ideas. A lot of good posts never made it past PG for this reason, and PG keeps a lot of cows that make a lot of content fast get left behind because by the time the thread is approved it's already out of date.

I think we should let users post on the threads, and if the commentators don't think a cow is lulzy enough to warrant a thread or OP needs to provide more info, they can make that known, and if a thread is really shittier then they can make that known and the mods can delete it.  A good meet-in-the middle could be to have people submit threads to the forums directly, but have the moderators of that particular board approve the thread based on if it's obvious shitpost or not. That way it weeds out shitposts and spam but there isn't the backlog of one PG for all the forums.


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## jenffer a jay (Dec 8, 2019)

is everthing ok with with my page


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## j666 (Dec 8, 2019)

jenffer a jay said:


> is everthing ok with with my page


your thread is fine babe


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## NoFeline (Dec 8, 2019)

Pray for us.


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## Rōjin (Dec 8, 2019)

Option 2


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## Null (Dec 9, 2019)

Cryonic Haunted Bullets said:


> I think that we ought to keep PG in a limited form for doing initial research on cows without them being aware.


I think it's easier to have a reactive system than a proactive system. Expecting someone from a team of people not paid to vet and fix threads at all is just not going to work.


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## Prof. Loco (Dec 9, 2019)

Make it available to newbies to lurk only with a twist, if they enter the PG, they will have a phrase stating they are a newfag for every message they post on the site.


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## Sissy (Dec 9, 2019)

ur sites toast dood, RIP


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## awoo (Dec 10, 2019)

For individuals with extensive history (online footprint) an OP can't be as good as a wiki article, which is why I was a proponent for the lolcow wiki. An OP can only be edited by it's author or mods, and posting replies is a good way to get info out quick for discussion but poor for organization and managing topics (see CwCki for a good model). My understanding is that the Lolcow Wiki died because no one was updating it so it suffers the same issue as no one updating the OP.


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## Cheerlead-in-Chief (Dec 10, 2019)

Who??
He ugly and crazy Jewish Tust fund wizard


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## MarinaAnnDanzig (Dec 12, 2019)

Prof. Loco said:


> Make it available to newbies to lurk only with a twist, if they enter the PG, they will have a phrase stating they are a newfag for every message they post on the site.


This is how I run mine. I have a few options actually. I can set a post count, allow them to view the thread but not be able to reply, replies are posted pending approval by a set mod of the thread, global moderator or myself (admin) or even set a time frame. Newbies can only post once every 30 mins helps when spammers wanna shit up the site. I'm unsure about this platform but must be something close. I run SMF, which is old, dated but still has a lot ways to customize the forum. It was my first forum software and it grew on me and now I can't seem to quite let it go....lol


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## Xarpho (Dec 12, 2019)

So you're actually deleting-deleting Proving Grounds? I thought the policy was not deleting anything unless it relates to a set of ground rules (subject is obvious minor, etc.)


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## SamSalamander34 (Dec 12, 2019)

I think i need today somthing idk

Wtf


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## Bitch Kitten (Dec 12, 2019)

SamSalamander34 said:


> I think i need today somthing idk





SamSalamander34 said:


> Wtf


Are you ok?


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## Trig.Point (Dec 12, 2019)

One thing that's been mentioned several times, is the value of having a hidden subforum, where people can post potential threads without giving the lolcow warning.

I was the second member to try and start a thread on Adrian Harrop, an individual who keeps tabs on the Kiwi Farms. Both I and the member that had posted previously were able to make edits and adjustments, without him being able to view. Much of the feedback we got was useful, relating to formatting archiving etc. 

However in both cases the amendments we made didn't result in the threads being moved out of PG. IMO the initial decision seemed to have been the final one. 

Anyway I think there's a case to be made for a restricted subforum where OP's can be developed before going public. However any thread should automatically have a chance to migrate onto a main board.


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## The1ThatStartsWithD (Dec 17, 2019)

OPTION 2.


Null said:


> I think it's easier to have a reactive system than a proactive system. Expecting someone from a team of people not paid to vet and fix threads at all is just not going to work.


I'm quasi-late, but what if we assign a mod (or multiple mods?) to work specifically in the Proving Grounds? Would that work? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but aren't our mods already contributing in a volunteer capacity? Otherwise, I think Option 2 is best.


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## SamSalamander34 (Dec 29, 2019)

Bitch Kitten said:


> Are you ok?


Yup just posting random shit by mistake


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