# Border-Line Personality Disorder



## Heimdallr (Jan 12, 2017)

Of all the personality disorders, this one scares  and saddens me the most: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml


The people who suffer from it seem truly sad and pathetic. They are very lonely and they don't really have a "sense of self" to fall back on if they are rejected by other people. They have little to no developed sense of identity. In order to feel "whole" or even human they tend to latch onto other people. If they are rejected, they react with terrible anger and hatred.

Here is a perfect example of borderline: 




I think most stalkers are BPD. Any thoughts on this disorder or those who suffer (or are enjoying) it?


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## Anime Dad (Jan 12, 2017)

It's one of the most intense and destructive personality disorders to live with; so it's often the most self diagnosed on tumblr dot com because it offers an instant excuse for negative attention seeking and abusive behaviors. Take a stroll in the tumblr forum and tally up just how many of these shining examples will have BPD in their usernames or sidebars. It's almost always teens who mistake their evolving sense of identity, self absorption and teenage melodrama for a personality disorder that isn't diagnosed until adulthood.

Real BPD sufferers are both horrifying and sad. They tend to be ticking time bombs and the fallout is always nuclear. There are some great sites that talk about having / living with someone who has BPD that are excellent reads. Not sure if linking to them is kosher, but I have some resources to drop if there's interest. You can also checkout the /BPDlovedones on reddit for some first hand accounts that tend to be a little heartbreaking.

Edit: There's also a huge overlap between BPD and Otherkin which is fascinating and not surprising when you consider the lack of identity issue. But using otherkin as a 'coping mechanism' is the exact opposite of healthy in this instance.


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## Vitriol (Jan 13, 2017)

Anime Dad said:


> It's one of the most intense and destructive personality disorders to live with; so it's often the most self diagnosed on tumblr dot com because it offers an instant excuse for negative attention seeking and abusive behaviors. Take a stroll in the tumblr forum and tally up just how many of these shining examples will have BPD in their usernames or sidebars. It's almost always teens who mistake their evolving sense of identity, self absorption and teenage melodrama for a personality disorder that isn't diagnosed until adulthood.
> 
> Real BPD sufferers are both horrifying and sad. They tend to be ticking time bombs and the fallout is always nuclear. There are some great sites that talk about having / living with someone who has BPD that are excellent reads. Not sure if linking to them is kosher, but I have some resources to drop if there's interest. You can also checkout the /BPDlovedones on reddit for some first hand accounts that tend to be a little heartbreaking.
> 
> Edit: There's also a huge overlap between BPD and Otherkin which is fascinating and not surprising when you consider the lack of identity issue. But using otherkin as a 'coping mechanism' is the exact opposite of healthy in this instance.


Linking is fine.


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## glass_houses (May 13, 2017)

_NOTE: The following comes from a combination of a blog post and a highly detailed and lengthy email to a friend. It's extremely tl;dr and while I've cut a fair amount of detail out of it there's still a huge amount of :autism: in here. Read at your own frustration or leisure. As I do indeed have the diagnosed :autism: and other mental issues on top of an interesting life with 'interesting' people, please take me at my word when I say that I don't actively seek out or tolerate the company of predators. I'm just really, really bad at knowing when I'm in trouble and need to start running, when even Blind Freddy is long gone. _


I'm living with one. She's very likely to be the third I've had the misfortune to live with, although she seems to be the only one with a formal diagnosis. I'd read online that there are some BPD who have insight into their own disorder and that while they can't control that little switch in their head, when it flicks back they can objectively see the damage they've caused and they do their best to clean it up and make amends. I'd thought that she might be one of this minority, but even when her switch is turned off, she's still a fucking nightmare. Switch on, she's highly aggressive and unpredictable. Switch off, she stops screaming and becomes sneaky and incredibly manipulative.



Spoiler: general observations



I've lost hundreds of dollars to her, either stolen or freely lent, and she fucking lies about _everything._ There are gifts that I've freely given her- some small, cheap pieces of furniture, a blanket, many small sundry items- that I was happy to part with because I believe that if someone is missing small necessities and you have extra, then giving what you can spare is a combination of both personal integrity and paying it forward (and I have _a lot_ to pay forward for). With everything that she's 'borrowed' or made disappear, what I gave her because it was right to give has become a sore point. What's the point of giving things to a habitual thief? And when I front her about the latest disappearances, usually cleaning or kitchen ware, she throws up a word salad of bizarre and contradictory denial, and smirks when I give up and go away. I'm not sure whether she's smirking because she genuinely thinks I've bought into her crap or just likes to see my face. It's probably irrelevant either way, given the circumstances.





Spoiler: small thefts add up to massive amounts



I've been out of work for a year, and I've some spectacular medical problems that stop me from going back even though Centrelink is convinced that I'm _still_ employable and that I _won't_ get marched offsite by a quite rightfully irate safety officer on the grounds that I'm dangerous to have around. The things she steals on a regular basis are cleaning supplies. I clear $106 a week after rent- _just_ after rent- and by the time you factor in absolutely _everything_, having to replace even a bottle of the cheapest generic cleaner a fortnight can mean the difference between catching a bus or walking twenty minutes to the discount supermarket and back. I mean, it's good exercise in general, but when the subtropical sun is blazing and UV is bouncing off concrete, buildings and asphalt, or it's pissing down rain, or the four lane road I have to walk along is bumper to bumper with cars spewing exhaust everywhere, it's downright unhealthy. The cleaning supplies, however, are by no means the end of it.

She's stolen a lot of kitchen shit, which is mine but is supposed to be for the entire house to use. Baking tins, plates, plastic containers. Mixing bowls. For some weird reason she keeps taking my casserole dishes, but I won't let her get away with those. She's stolen makeup from me, taken a hell of a lot of shit that I put in the bathroom cabinet for various minor medical issues for all of us, but refuses to replace or even acknowledge that she's the one who's used it. A ways back she asked for some emergency tampons. I had five boxes of the things so I told her she could help herself. A couple weeks later I discovered the hard way that she'd completely cleaned me out- there's no way she could have used them all, so the vast majority probably ended up in her bedroom- and was genuinely surprised that I was pissed off.





Spoiler: why yes, I am indeed an idiot!



When she first moved in, I did another stupid, trusting thing. I've a ton of DVDs, courtesy of me being in my mid thirties, without children, a partner, or a mortgage, or a disposition towards fashion and things like alcohol and smoking. I've tried to sell the bulk of them, but everyone's in the same financial boat right now, so no one wanted them, not even for two dollars when they can just pirate it for free. So, I put most of them in the tv cabinet for everyone to borrow. There are a great many that, I suspect, will never be seen again. I lent her a fuckton of old CDs with the understanding that she'd pick out the ones she'd like and give me $2 for every five she wanted to keep. A week later she tried to gaslight me and convince me that I'd given them all to her as a gift. She eventually backed down, and told me that she was- is- still deciding what ones she wants. Meanwhile, a ton of inserts and posters from them have been blue tacked to her bedroom wall.

Last week I made a terrible, terrible mistake. She asked if I had a padlock to borrow, and I stupidly said yes. But I really fucked up when I made the mistake of opening my tool crate in front of her. Her eyes lit up and that's when I realised that along with various other items, I am going to have to pick out the most expensive ones and hide them somewhere. Also, I know damn well that it's a good quality lock I'll never see again.



The third house mate holds our lease, handles the house bills and negotiates with the landlords. When BPD and I frequently fuck up our finances, it's her who pays the bills due until we scratch up the money. I don't expect her to buy anything that isn't urgent and extremely expensive, because she's the one keeping a roof over our heads. When I finally, finally go back to work and end my period of scabbing off others, that will change. But right now, because she is coping the brunt of the parasitic life that BPD and I "enjoy", I do not expect her to contribute to the consumables.



Spoiler: Massive tl;dr autism on my part



She damaged a book I lent her. I'm not religious in general, but when it comes to books I come very close to. I've even set up a community bookshelf for everyone in the dining room, with shit I've bought $2 for a shopping bag, a couple free boxes full from Gumtree, shit like that. It's a very eclectic collection, most I didn't even have to pay for, but a house without books isn't a house, even if there's not much of anything targeted to a general audience. I have no attachment to any of them, I just like seeing them there. There are a decent amount that are from my personal library and that I have tried to sell at one point, but let's just say that there is a reason people are giving away entire boxes of them on Gumtree. My own books, that I don't want people to borrow willy nilly are stashed away in my bedroom, same as the DVDs I'm attached to. The first week she moved in I made the mistake of lending a book very, very important to me. Twenty one years old, immaculate condition, first Australian edition and, given that my memory is pretty fucked up, is a signifier for me. I've had it for fifteen years, and I got it at a very important time in my life. Some people use photographs or tourist trinkets to jog their memory; the only thing that works for me personally are books. Makes it hard to move house, I must admit.

She had it for weeks. I tried to get it back off her every couple of days, but she fobbed me off. Finally I put my foot down and she grudgingly gave it back.

The dust jacket had been torn. And when she handed it back to me, she dropped it. Because this was in the laundry, which isn't screened in, and it'd been pissing down rain, it landed in a puddle and was instantly covered in mud. _I freaked the fuck out_. Aside from the fact that it is ridiculously difficult replace, as a memory signifier it felt intensely like she'd damaged that memory. And it's not a signifier for one occasion, it's for the best two years of my entire life, the friends I'd had, the time I'd spent with them, the places I had been.

I know... :autism:

I pitched a massive fit. It wasn't completely ruined and it couldn't be replaced anyway, but I felt- feel- intensely like she should make a token gesture of apology, especially because even back then things were going missing. If it had been a good friend who'd done the same thing I've have been mollified by a heartfelt apology, a hug and maybe being shouted a beverage when we next went out, all with the acknowledgment that the memories associated with this book are powerful and very important. But since she wasn't and isn't a friend, she has to do something a lot better than the vague contempt and irritation she showed me when she saw my initial reaction. For about five hours straight I leaned on her, telling her that she was going to have to buy another copy for me. Different edition from overseas, which pissed me off because mine is in Australian English, and the only two Australian editions that are up on eBay are shredded. First she rolled her eyes, then she got annoyed that I was making such a huge stink about it, then she got pissed off because I wouldn't shut up, then, when I told her the exact edition she was going to get, she tried to pay me off with a handful of shrapnel for the book alone without postage. Finally she backed down and told me she'd bought the volume and since I received a notice the next day telling me it was unavailable I had thought she'd bought it.

Silly me.

Long story short, two months later and me getting more and more impatient for it to arrive and she saying vague things like nothing she'd bought for herself at the same time had arrived either, I finally went online to the old listing and discovered that by co-incidence, it'd ended because the seller hadn't relisted it straight away after the listing period had ended. She said that she'd buy it when she got paid. I know that I will never, ever see it.

(Incidentally, after drama over some very important letter of mine that disappeared into her room under the heading of, "Grabbed everything and forgot to sort it, not sorry, not my fault", I'm beginning to suspect that it's not the international postal system that's eaten a recent eBay purchase of my own.)






Spoiler: money, money, money



That was a week ago. I finally got to the point where I told her that for $150, everything that I was pissed off at having to replace, everything that she was renting to buy, everything that she'd flat out stolen either admitted or denied, everything that had been for the house and was lent to her on the grounds that she'd just moved in and couldn't afford to buy her own right now but is now utterly refusing to give back or even acknowledge that it was given to her in the first place, everything of mine that she'd cleaned out entirely when I told her she could she could have some to tide her over, shit she'd nicked randomly... $150 to shut me up and give her some peace and quiet. All tallied properly it's actually closer to $600, a month's worth of rent, but I just want to forget it and move on.

She said she'd give me that this week, but on Sunday night I got a text from her telling me that she couldn't afford it. Apparently, she hadn't paid last fortnight's rent and she now had to pay that on top of _this_ fortnight's rent. Jesus fucking Christ. I ended up having to contact the health worker who is assigned to my case to pay my fucking medication. I ended up having to borrow $10 from the third housemate for bread and milk, even though I still owe her for my share of the electricity bill. I'm shy on food. It's ridiculous. Stupid me for taking BPD her at her word, and thinking that I could have luxuries like mobile phone credit, yet more cleaning supplies, various sundries for the pet rats that make me get up of a morning and whom I've been spending long periods of time scrubbing clean my vet's hospital cages in payment for their incessant hypochondria, and various bills both personal and house.

And when I spoke to third housemate, third housemate said that BPD had told her that I was trying to _borrow money off of her_. Fuck's sake.



I'm such a bloody mug.

Shall I discuss her social life and miscellaneous idiosyncrasies?

The third house mate and I are both in our mid thirties. She works bloody hard with insane hours, and when she's home she basically holes up in her room and sleeps. BPD, however, has recently turned twenty and I don't think she's ever had a job. It took me eighteen months and moving to another state to get my first one after finishing my diploma, and that's with working harder to find work than I did after finally getting work. I don't think she's ever had a job interview in her life. But again, given how long I've been out of work right now it's very much a pot and kettle thing.



Spoiler: enjoying life with good company is one thing...



She smokes vast quantities of pot and drinks vast quantities of alcohol. And then there are her friends. Ah yes, her friends, her 'not-boyfriends' as third housemate and I call them. An endless parade of males, all of them her friends. We're quite certain that she's taking money off of at least _some_ of them, although whether she realises it's prostitution is another matter. I'm on the autism spectrum so it takes me a very long time to be able to see someone's face, but even with that I'm pretty certain that many of them have only visited once or twice. As a general rule, if we hear her having noisy sex then she's definitely into it. If she disappears into her room for vast amounts of time and knocking on her bedroom door gets a yell of, "Don't come in, I'm naked!" we're pretty certain that the man/s in there for her are bringing with them cash or property for the privilege. The house is a very old Queenslander up on pillars, high enough to make it effectively two stories, although the only areas sealed underneath are her bedroom and the laundry just in front of that. Separating her room and the rest of the house are very thin floorboards, in an important area just in front of the only bathroom, and right under where I keep my rat cage. The noisy sex is awkward as hell, especially when I'm trying to cuddle my girls goodnight before I go to bed. The screaming fits, however, can be quite alarming and they're happening more and more often.

Generally, I've done my level best to stay out of the not-boyfriend thing, but when she first arrived she brought with her a good 'friend': _a forty five year old man._ At that point she hadn't even turned twenty and this deviant was spending hours here every day. I quickly banned the creepy fucker from coming upstairs and made it clear that the whole situation was fucked up by any standard. Apparently she'd been in another sharehouse with him before here. Sometimes he seemed okay. Others, I looked at his eyes and saw that he was either on drugs or having an intense period of mental illness. Either way I wanted him out of the fucking house, both upstairs and down, and I told her that even if she wasn't sleeping with him, forty five year old men should not spend large qualities of time hanging around a teenager that they're not related to, even one only just shy of their 20th birthday. The third housemate didn't really give a shit who she had over at the beginning, but eventually third housemate and I put our combined foot down about him coming over and staying over night, even if he just stayed in her bedroom for most of it, emerging only for a furtive urination under one of the trees. Creepy deviant ephebophile and BPD eventually had a falling out, much screaming that I freaked the fuck out of over and ran downstairs in my dressing gown to come to her rescue. Turned out she was just on her phone. She also told me that when he came over, he was always trying to drop MDA with her.

She's also told me on a number of occasions that she only finds older men attractive- although oddly enough none of the regular not-boyfriends is over twenty five- and that her first boyfriend was twenty years old to her thirteen. It wasn't a relationship, it was a molestation. You could put it under the inevitable "sexual abuse tales", but weirdly she doesn't repeat the story to beat you over the head with how much more of a victim she is than she looks, so there's a very high chance that this one is real. Remarkable.





Spoiler: ...but there's getting buzzed on a night in the town, and there's getting smashed every single day



I made it very clear to her at that point, and so did third housemate, that while pot and alcohol are indeed highly enjoyable, any form of powder or pills are not to be brought into the premises unless she wants to be kicked out so fast and hard that she'll need surgery to remove the boot wedged into her sphincter. We also tried to put a cap on visitor numbers and visiting hours. It's partially worked in that it's a bit quieter. People are coming and going at 10pm, 12am, 1am, 3am. They try to be quiet but I hear them anyway. BPD keeps weird hours. She sleeps around the mid morning to early afternoons, and without guests will nap in the wee hours after smoking vast quantities of pot, which isn't often because she's terrified of being alone.

The vast quantities of pot are great in the short term. She's stoned out of her brain downstairs, I get to chill out and relax. Then I started getting knocks on my door very late at night. I'm nocturnal so I was still awake. It turned out that someone was "stalking" BPD. The first time I took it moderately seriously, but eventually I worked out that if she spent three full days stoned, I'd get the knock on the door on the third night. So far there's been a number of ex boyfriends, weird people who suddenly decided to start following her around, oh, and there was that car full of Africans (we have a sizable refugee community here) who were by all indications just finishing their alcohol before hitting the 24hr takeaway restaurant a block away. That one she mumbled about for a while. For a couple weeks afterwards she kept telling me that they were sneaking into the front yard at night to rattle the door to under the house and terrorise her. Considering that I can hear people sneaking in and out and trying to open and shut that door quietly, I knew that one to be a load of shit.





Spoiler: holier than thou, or understandable? you decide



Another person we saw quite a bit of when BPD first arrived was a rather lovely middle aged lady (we'll call her 'L') who came over often, bringing everything from a washing machine to various bits of kit, to BPD's groceries. L took BDP's dog for walks and to the groomers and back, and I ended up having to open some of the kitchen cupboards to convince her that we had everything we needed and that no, she didn't need to buy more. For a period after BPD first moved in she dabbled in agrophobia, so that lovely L was pretty much doing everything for BPD, up to and including taking her washing home and doing it before the washing machine arrived. Because BPD called her by her first name, and BPD is tall and Caucasian and L is Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander with a radically different bone structure to BPD's, let alone the skin or hair, and without any form of identification other than L's name and L's obvious love for BPD, I arrived at the conclusion that L was BPD's aunt or cousin. When I attempted to get some emergency contact numbers off of BPD I received an angry rant about how no one would come for her anyway if she had to go to hospital. If nothing else we needed to know where to send her dog, and I ended up sending a text pointing out that L obviously loved her.

I got a text back saying, and I quote, "I'd watch your bloody opinions mate". I opted to apologise and dropped the subject, deciding that BPD's dog would be best sent to the pound.

Not long after that I managed to corner L for an emergency contact number. In the process, I discovered that she was BPD's Mum.

Mum.

I come from a blended family, and I can tell you exactly what you call the woman who raises you: _Mum_. That's when my moral outrage kicked in.

Smoking weed should be legal. Drinking is legal. Casual sex is legal. Having many friends is legal. Having an easy life is legal. And that's the way it should be. Too much of any of those things is incredibly unhealthy at best, at worst downright dangerous to both yourself and unwitting bystanders. But I am not going to stand over you with a pinched mouth and a sour expression, passing moral judgement. If any of these things is ever under threat of being made illegal under law or religion, I'll march side by side with the most STD ridden, strung out prostitutes, enthusiastically cheering on the bluest shades of danger hair, chanting chants led by gendertrender hairy six foot men in skirts, mingling with the creepy fucks in fetish gear, otherkin, furries, people dragging Realdolls and Reborns like they're humans and not dolls, hell, even the most foul smelling of corprophiles. And even normal looking people, who invariably cover up some incredibly weird shit by blending in with everyone else. It's not right for me, but it's still my right to have it, and the right of everyone else.

BPD wants to have ridiculous amounts of casual sex? Spend days upon days on end stoned out of her tiny mind? Drink vast quantities of alcohol? She's a legal adult and so long as all involved are fully consenting and aware, it's entirely her own right and business to do whatever the hell she wants to do. From where I stand, the major problems are these:

1.) She's leading a lifestyle that brings her into contact with and makes her incredibly vulnerable to predators
2.) She's bringing them into a _house_ shared by others who _don't_ share her inclinations, and who are old enough to know just how monstrous monsters can be.
3.) Can't she keep the noise down? Christ. Fuck or fight, it's up to you, but I'm sure as hell not a voyeur and being forced into one makes my skin crawl.
_4.) Stop fucking stealing and lying_

So. With all of this, even I was surprised at how shocked and disgusted I am at BPD's treatment of her mother. I flat out told L that the way she was treated by BPD was beyond disrespectful, and that if L raised BPD, then BPD should either break ties entirely or else treat L with the respect she deserves. L told me that their relationship was difficult and shrugged.

That was the second last time I saw her. The last was when BPD had demanded that L come over and wash the dog... without BPD even being home. And L? L finished with the dog and went home. I was upstairs and saw her walking back to her car by chance. I was too far away to see if she was actually crying, but even where I was I could see that she was one of the saddest people I've ever met.

The way my eldest siblings treat our mother, who raised them even though they're not biologically hers, is pretty much on par to this kind of shit. Seeing it from both the inside and outside makes me want to pick up a two-by-four, and start swinging at the entitled little shit who pisses on the one who stepped in to care for them with nothing but love and respect, and whose worst disciplinary action is to take their gaming console. L raised her, took her after whatever BPD's trauma was, put up with the lying, the stealing, the complete contempt... it's foul.





Spoiler: I'm over this shit



BPD's soul mandatory house chore is cleaning the bathroom we share. Needless to say she doesn't. Which is weird because she is obsessive about her room, steals cleaning shit all the fucking time, freaks the fuck out if one of her visitors touch so much as the tv remote without her telling them they can. It's happened quite a few times: I walk from my room to the bathroom, she's happy and talking a mile a minute. I turn around and start to walk back and as suddenly as that she starts screaming that her hapless victim is a fucking cunt for touching something over and over again, which usually lasts for five or ten minutes until she flicks her switch and she's happy again, fast as that.

The screaming bouts are getting worse, unfortunately. Several of the not-boyfriends have turned out to be actual boyfriends, which have either opted to run in the opposite direction or, having decided that they were too vanilla (i.e, had a regular job, smoked weed as a recreation and not as a religion, and weren't obviously dangerous), BPD runs them off herself. It can be quite frightening, to the point I've seriously considered going downstairs once or twice to make sure she wasn't about to knife the poor bastard. There's been a couple that were around often enough that I could see their faces and have a quick chat with. The most recent one was here a couple of nights ago, and it was... disturbing.

This particular lad comes across as shy and maybe even nice, and usually talks about my pitiful collection of geraniums in the front garden or the cabinet I'm allegedly restoring. I got a text late saying that he was coming up to use the shower. All good. But the second part of the text made my skin crawl: "He's shy please don't start any convos with him". I've seen it before, both as a close witness and once as a victim. The BPDs do _not_ want their object of affection to have any relationships other than with them. They will go to obscene and bizarre lengths to end friendships and estrange families, and on one occasion, living in another sharehouse with a young couple who seemed normal the first couple of weeks, I had misfortune to be below their bedroom, they fucked like rabbits until she started going after his job. It paid well enough that they could start saving to buy their own house, and she decided it had to go because her partner genuinely enjoyed his job and was very good at it. A BPD will go to insane lengths to make sure that there's nothing in their victim's life but them. They will publicly mutilate themselves, destroy their victim's reputation, and also the victim's family and friends, to the point where years after the BPD is gone, their former victim is still the town villain, even though no one can tell you exactly what it was they did. This woman relied on him to pay the fucking bills, but she still wanted him to change jobs because while he was working, he wasn't thinking about her.

I lasted about six weeks at that place. I was only there that long because I got hammered with glandular fever two weeks in.

I've not seen the isolation and destruction process quite as openly though, but then BPD's just starting out. She's got plenty of years to hone her skills.





Spoiler: aesthetics



And when I've had friends and family over and I introduce them to her for the first time, they always look a bit taken aback. BPD is, from a purely aesthetic point of view, a rather striking lass. She is very tall, very thin, the type of complexion that always looks fashionably tanned, and has very long hair. She wears a fuckton of makeup even to sleep, so I've never really seen her face properly. She likes to do weird designs on her cheekbones. The thing that takes people aback is her fashion style. It took third housemate and I a week or so to get used to it. It's normal to us, not for others. I'm not fucked up enough to find kids attractive, but as she's twenty she actually isn't one regardless of how I see her. So I don't know what third housemate's opinion is, especially given that third housemate bats for the other side.

Clothes in general: BPD's not a fan. Less is definitely more. She wears bras as shirts, so there's a lot of skin showing, long skirts with surprise slits or hiked up high on one side. She takes random cloth and garments and ties them creatively into knots and lumps. She told me that she wants to have her own fashion style. I think she's trying to go for the bohemian "I just don't care" style, and sometimes she does make it, but usually not. It's a good thing she has such a flat chest, so the bras look purely decorative as opposed to come hither. I don't give much of a shit what she wears and doesn't wear providing I don't have to see nips or maps, but when visitors come over I get reminded that walking around in front of random strangers in a lacy strapless and a token drape as a skirt, completely blase, isn't usually done.





Spoiler: I really didn't know any better even though I should have



When she first arrived in the house, she quickly established that she has simultaneous and contradictory fears about being around people and not being alone. For a while she refused to leave the house at all, and said that it took her ages to build up the courage to come upstairs to use the bathroom. I don't tend to leave the house much so she quickly got used to me never being gone for more than a few hours at a time. So the first time I was away the full day and didn't come back until the evening, I finally checked my phone to see that she'd sent texts to both myself and third housemate begging to know when we were coming home. I went downstairs to talk, and found her working on... something, she builds weird shit that is supposed to be useful but can't tell you what it's for, and then takes it to pieces again and forgets about it... in a mood best described as "angry terror", and asking where I'd been. There was a large pocket knife open beside her. I asked her if she was using it to make whatever it was that she was making, and she said no, it was there in case she needed to protect herself from being attacked.

All of you who have enjoyed good mental health aside from inevitable bouts of depression are very likely horrified that I didn't have her pack up her stuff then and there and kick her out, and quite reasonably so. However, when you're someone who suffers from complex mental illness and knows others who do as well, the intense need for weapons is part of the fight or flight reflex that never completely turns off like it's supposed to do. Not to put too fine a point on it, this is something that you never understand unless you've been there. And it's something I've discussed many, many times with others who also have mental illnesses.

Admittedly, this was the first time I'd had this conversation with someone who really was sitting next to a knife. I basically rattled off how a knife is incredibly dangerous to the woman who's trying to use it, and went through a couple of other options with her. (A short, heavy club is probably better than anything else when handguns are illegal and hard to come by. You don't go straight for the head, you instantly drop down and crack the fucker in the knees or feet. It'll either buy you enough time to run while he's trying to get his legs to work again, or else take advantage of the instinctual reflex to protect part of you that's been hurt, and crack him over the head as he doubles down.)

Overall, in terms of personal experience, seeing her with the knife was disturbing, but given all of the other shit that came afterwards I should have been flat out terrified.






Spoiler: what she thought of my friends, and what my friends think of her



The first few weeks after BPD moved in were great. We'd established that we enjoyed each other's company, and I'd discovered that she's an amazing conversationalist after a durry or four. Two of my friends coming over resulted in a couple of odd moments. The first friend that I introduced to BPD resulted in BPD mumbling something hospitable and excusing herself. Since it was bloody hot my friend and I sat downstairs in the relative coolness of the laundry and talked. Note that the laundry is just in front of BPD's room.

When my friend left, BPD said some really weird shit: that my friend obviously had a very set and limited way that she saw me in, that she'd never see me as anything else... I said "wat" a few times and asked for clarification but that was it. My friend, for the record, is one of those disgustingly decent human beings who work hard and care deeply for others, one of those nauseating types who, once you come to the horrifying realisation that they are a genuinely good person, make you feel guilty as hell for being a misanthrope. BPD could have still been mildly stoned from the night before, but given the way BPDs tend to fixate on someone as their own personal property, I wouldn't be surprised if she was making a feeble attempt to start the brain washing process on me.

The second friend of mine, who's met BPD a few times, took one look at her and has remained quietly horrified ever since. I'd actually been gratified to see it, as my friend is another unbelievably good person, a bizarrely liberal devout Catholic who goes to mass every Sunday but manages to be one of the most generous, least judgemental people I've ever met. I'd stupidly believed that the quiet horror was about BPD's being a bra and a tea towel away from nudity, but today she finally told me what that horror of hers really was. She said, "As soon as I took one look at her, I saw that there was nothing capable of love or caring in her, dead, dark and cold inside, and the only thing that brings her joy is hurting others."

Um.

Wow.



So. If you're still with me, you are doubtless here only because you want to hear BPD's "How I got so fucked up" story. She's told me a couple times. It was hard to make out, torrents of word salad, but surprisingly consistent.



Spoiler: wait, what?



Apparently there are two sides of her family, the decent human being side, and the drug addicts and psychotics on the other. From what I could make out, her father beat the shit out of all her family, and one of her sisters grew up weird and terrifying. Apparently, it's academic if she was psychopathic before or during her schizophrenia kicked in while she was still in single figures. She got heavily into Satanisim and started sacrificing animals, and periodically attacked BPD and the third sister, doing a lot of physical damage and sadistically enjoying the pain and fear. Being deaf and being raised in a family that was already violent, apparently no one noticed or took her seriously. She got worse and worse, and while BPD was able to pull away, the third sister instead tried to help and forgive. BPD muttered a few things about the violent sister telling everyone flat out that she wanted to kill people, writing on all the walls that she was going to sacrifice someone to Satan. Which she ended up doing, or so BPD told me, murdering the third sister and spending the next five years in a mental hospital.

The deaf sister got out a few years ago, and BPD's Jehovah's Witness family took her back in and told BPD that she should learn to forgive.

Obviously this is some premium bullshit, but thing is, I've had personal experience in fucked up, and I'm very well aware that some things are so fucked up that no one will ever believe you. And to her credit, BPD has been rather consistent in that area. She's convinced that ghosts are real, and hearing me scream one night in a mild night terror, freaked the fuck out and ended up sending a flurry of text messages that made me regret sleeping with my mobile next to my bed. It was annoying but it could have been a hell of a lot worse for her; for one thing I'd explained to her about my terrors and not to panic too much if she hears screaming nearby, and for another I haven't done anything _really_ interesting for nearly an entire year.





Spoiler: seriously?



Just last week she came to me with the bewildering and wtf question of "Are you a Satanist?" No lead up, no good morning, "Are you a Satanist?". Okay then. I answered in the negative, and from there she moved onto asking me if I was into a number of things in the general ballpark. Finally she reminded me of what her sister had done, mentioned something about her "birth giver" being into the new age stuff and how disturbing it was, and then told me about how her grandmother, who was a devout Jehovah's Witness, telling her over and over again that "worldy" things like that are very dangerous, and how seeing many of the DVDs I had on various forms of supernatural and horror, was disturbing to her.

What had sparked this weird conversation?

I went through a few years where I bought the magazine _Fortean Times_ on a regular basis. I found it incredibly entertaining. I'd tried to sell the box I had of them a couple times, but ultimately I'd shrugged and kept them. I'd decided to put the stack on one of the shelves of the communal bookshelf, where they're coming in great handy for combination placemats and reading material. And when she'd seen a cover with an Ouija on it, she was instantly in fear.

jfc.

I ended up taking the Ouija issue into my bedroom so it wasn't near her, and because I'm nice I even re shelved the communal bookshelf so that the fantasy and horror were all below eye height.



Now, finally things have come to a head. It turns out that BPD's telling third housemate porkies about me on a regular basis, to the point where third housemate genuinely doesn't know who is lying. Third housemate wouldn't go into details, but from what I gather BPD has been sending her many texts re: me from nearly the first day she moved in. You remember how above I spoke about how BPD as a species get off on fucking up any form of relationship for nothing other than the joy of it? Or how mind blowing brilliant they can be at destroying your entire reputation without actually accusing you of anything?

If I could, I'd just walk away and find another house. But between finances and needing an understanding landlord to keep animals for my mental health, and being in a place where I can keep the furniture I still have, not to mention the way my books multiply at an alarming rate and getting rid of an entire kitchen of gear makes me grind my teeth, this is probably the absolute best house I could ever hope to get with my circumstances. I've dug my heels in. Third housemate is confused as hell. She's very smart and is a manager at one of the largest Maccas in Brisbane. Awesome with people in a formal structure, but outside of it she has a rather strong case of social anxiety. She's been telling me on a semi regular basis that BPD is wearing thin for quite some time now, but BPD has kicked it up by a huge number of notches, and manipulation is one of the things that make the nature of the beast.

And here's me looking back at the beginning, shaking my head at my pathetic belief that this time, with this BPD, history wouldn't repeat itself.

Some people never learn. And given the way one of the BPDs I lived with latched onto me years back, and how she utterly decimated my entire life, I bloody well should have.


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## Wraith (May 18, 2017)

I'm not afraid of a lot of things, but I am scared of women with BPD. My last ex-gf had this without knowing it. I just thought she had ADHD, which she was diagnosed with. She was a little tiring through this, but handlable. However the BPD which I didn't recognize back then was horrifying. When I got away from her, it literally felt like the weight of an entire earth was removed off of my person. She does know now she has BPD, and is quite open about it. In a sense I feel bad for her until... she started drawing furry pron and has a fursona and went downhill. 

I avoid her like I do a salad bar without a sneeze guard. I'm not exactly sure she knows if I am alive right now, and I prefer it that way.


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## bbpoison (May 19, 2017)

Can someone test me to see if I have BPD ? Or am I too biased now?


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## Some JERK (May 19, 2017)

Breaking up with a BPD is the 2nd most soul-draining thing you can possibly do in life. (#1 of course being staying with a BPD.) Everyone thinks schizophrenics and sociopaths are the true faces of crazy, but they're wrong. It's borderlines.


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## Laughs_Under_Lucricities (May 19, 2017)

Some JERK said:


> Breaking up with a BPD is the 2nd most soul-draining thing you can possibly do in life. (#1 of course being staying with a BPD.)



You could've just phrased it as, "Avoid them at all costs."


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## Some JERK (May 19, 2017)

Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> You could've just phrased it as, "Avoid them at all costs."


I'll use smaller words next time.


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## Anti Fanta (May 19, 2017)

bbpoison said:


> Can someone test me to see if I have BPD ? Or am I too biased now?



_You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?_


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## bbpoison (May 19, 2017)

Anti Fanta said:


> You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?



gottagoogle


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## Zebedee (May 19, 2017)

BPD is generally used as a catch-phrase even in the psychological and professional community, very much like a blanket condition. You would be legitimately surprised at how many special needs professionals and how many mental health workers would diagnose a person with ADHD and BPD respectively because it is all they know.

It is a very overused term in diagnostic stages to the point that it could mean anything nowadays, and that is in part thanks to Tumblr, they should honestly be ashamed of themselves for doing such a thing. Among several other factors, it is one of the reasons that a legitimate crisis within the mental health sector exists to this day.
There really should be a fine for claiming/falsifying such a condition, it would certainly stop the idiots that do not have it from trying to get sheckles/sympathy that they don't deserve, yet it may stop the genuine cases from getting the treatment they need.

Tis' a frustrating conundrum.


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## Gloomydoom (May 19, 2017)

Zebedee said:


> You would be legitimately surprised at how many special needs professionals and how many mental health workers would diagnose a person with ADHD and BPD respectively because it is all they know.



Are people with BPD are any different than people with ADHD? I've met someone whose diagnose with ADHD and there not as hyperactive as everyone made out to be.


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## Zebedee (May 20, 2017)

Gloomydoom said:


> Are people with BPD are any different than people with ADHD? I've met someone whose diagnose with ADHD and there not as hyperactive as everyone made out to be.



ADHD is usually medicated, also think of their behaviour as a spectrum like obesity on the BMI. Anyone getting near to the line of extreme is fine until their behaviour goes over it.

People with ADHD cannot concentrate and require medication for it, otherwise they become assholes no matter their background. People with BPD are assholes because they were brought up that way and don't know any different.


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## cuddle striker (May 20, 2017)

BPD attracts NPD; threads about them attract both in swarms of self defensive garbage posting.

BPD: wants everyone to love them at all times
NPD: wants everyone to pay attention to them at all times
ASPD: wants money and possibly to get laid and fuck what anyone else wants
HPD: wants everyone to worry about them at all times

etc etc. the entire cluster B section is jacked up and this thread will be infected like a boil about to pop eventually.

great honeypot.

oh yeah, content.
BPD wants NPD to really, really like her, NPD wants BPD to shut up and follow complicated directions and read everything they've ever written:

http://queenbeeing.com/how-self-proclaimed-narcissist-sam-vaknin-gaslighted-me-on-facebook/


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## Zebedee (May 20, 2017)

resonancer said:


> BPD attracts NPD; threads about them attract both in swarms of self defensive garbage posting.
> 
> BPD: wants everyone to love them at all times
> NPD: wants everyone to pay attention to them at all times
> ...




I'm not sure whether I want to laugh at this comment or die a little inside over how brutally honest and true this is, I've seen it enough times.


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## cuddle striker (May 20, 2017)

I work with living people at one of my two jobs. I've gotten up close and personal with thousands of em. you can smell this common combination a mile away. 
if you find a BPD chances are they are right behind a NPD, and vice versa. if someone is making accusations online that someone is one of these, they likely have the other.

shit's crazy and fascinating.



Zebedee said:


> I'm not sure whether I want to laugh at this comment or die a little inside over how brutally honest and true this is, I've seen it enough times.


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## Zebedee (May 20, 2017)

resonancer said:


> I work with living people at one of my two jobs. I've gotten up close and personal with thousands of em. you can smell this common combination a mile away.
> if you find a BPD chances are they are right behind a NPD, and vice versa. if someone is making accusations online that someone is one of these, they likely have the other.
> 
> shit's crazy and fascinating.



I can relate, been on a ward enough times to see this happen, BPD peeps also tend to get a little follower where they can find one, usually the timid type of person with depression or social anxiety. Easy to exploit I suppose.


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## glass_houses (May 20, 2017)

Zebedee said:


> ADHD is usually medicated, also think of their behaviour as a spectrum like obesity on the BMI. Anyone getting near to the line of extreme is fine until their behaviour goes over it.
> 
> People with ADHD cannot concentrate and require medication for it, otherwise they become assholes no matter their background. People with BPD are assholes because they were brought up that way and don't know any different.



That's really not the way it works. (Or doesn't work.) They're very different and you can have both at the same time. ADHD is cognitive, meaning that it's an information processing disorder. It's caused by a chemical imbalance and/or malfunctioning chemical receptors, and will usually respond to medications. BPD is a personality disorder. It's effectively a structural problem. You can drug people with BPD but all you can do is dope them up with something like Valium, basically sedating them so that the worst of the swings are moderately less destructive.

BTW, update on my very own BPD:

 Last week she had a twenty minute screaming match. The next day she was winding herself up for another argument on her mobile with some unidentified victim, _right in front of my bedroom window_. I snapped and told her to go elsewhere and that I was sick of hearing hearing her arguing with people, she told me that she _never_ argues _anyone_ ever, I called her a liar and a thief, she stormed back to her room and then... the text messages started coming. And they're nothing shy of _beautiful_.

Have a squiz:


     


So that one subsided until last night, when I attempted yet again to call in some debts. A rather long read, but worth it. Highlights include her threatening to sue me and claiming she has asbestosis.


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## Zebedee (May 21, 2017)

glass_houses said:


> That's really not the way it works. (Or doesn't work.) They're very different and you can have both at the same time. ADHD is cognitive, meaning that it's an information processing disorder. It's caused by a chemical imbalance and/or malfunctioning chemical receptors, and will usually respond to medications. BPD is a personality disorder. It's effectively a structural problem. You can drug people with BPD but all you can do is dope them up with something like Valium, basically sedating them so that the worst of the swings are moderately less destructive.
> 
> BTW, update on my very own BPD:
> 
> ...



I was not saying that they werent very different, however the behaviour patterns (depending on the severity) can be very similar, hence people diagnose both carelessly and without proper analysis.

And yes ADHD is very much a scaleling checklist, as is BPD. Despite them having entirely different causes. The difference however is ADHD does not result in manipulative behaviour, unlike BPD.

TL:dr

BPD is commonly mistaken as ADHD and vice versa, its why the people that you referenced have to state this constantly. Hence the frustration.


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## cuddle striker (May 22, 2017)

ADHD is on a completely different scale in diagnostics. it's not related to personality disorders. especially because it can be treated and managed.


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## Zebedee (May 22, 2017)

resonancer said:


> ADHD is on a completely different scale in diagnostics. it's not related to personality disorders. especially because it can be treated and managed.



Again I'm not saying that they are the same, at all, people just mistake it as such. If you get one mental health and one learning needs professional each on the same case, they will come up with different diagnosis despite being provided with the exact same evidence.

That's one of the reasons why this presents as a problem, because now they will have a particular diagnosis when it should be the other. Imagine if someone with BPD has been told they have ADHD and get given meds for it and is not given CBT (a therapy that works for BPD) instead.

*Edit
The ethical implications alone would be terrible, imagine if someone did this in a life and death scenario. Let's set this up as a person you know who experienced a stroke, but instead was misdiagnosed with dementia, then they got the wrong treatment for it because of the incorrect diagnosis.

Medical professionals (doctors are a big one) should know better than to slap a condition onto a patient before going through all the possibilities. They are supposed to be the best of the best, they should start acting like it.


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## Darwin Watterson (May 22, 2017)

I've dated at least one girl whom I now suspect to have had borderline. It was a horrible experience.

The funny thing is that one of my other friends liked her too, but she ended up liking me instead of him. He resented me for a while after that, but after the relationship was over and done with, I told him he ought to thank me for essentially taking a bullet for him.

He's a much more emotionally fragile person than me, and I honestly believe he'd have come away from that far worse than I did. And I had quite a big mental scar from her, so that's really saying a lot.


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## Lackadaisy (May 22, 2017)

Some JERK said:


> Breaking up with a BPD is the 2nd most soul-draining thing you can possibly do in life. (#1 of course being staying with a BPD.) Everyone thinks schizophrenics and sociopaths are the true faces of crazy, but they're wrong. It's borderlines.



Schizos at the very least are usually truly apologetic for their behavior and know it's a mental illness.


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## Some JERK (May 22, 2017)

Lackadaisy said:


> Schizos at the very least are usually truly apologetic for their behavior and know it's a mental illness.


I feel sorry for them the most. Their reality is totally broken. That must be terrifying and heartbreaking.


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## The Shed (Jun 1, 2017)

BPD is a bitch. I think it deserves more research, but since patients with BPD are notoriously uncooperative and unresponsive to traditional therapy, the psych community is reluctant to delve further into it.



Spoiler: POWERLEVEL



i have comorbid Bipolar disorder and BPD, so i'm fun.
it took years and years for me to recognize my issues as illness, and not just 'i'm special and amazing because i'm so different!'. it breaks my heart to see tumblr bastardize BPD the way they do, because it's serious and it's awful and there is little to no cure. i'm on heavy meds but i'm still in no way 'normal'. i've put my family through utter hell and all i can do now is apologize.


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## Takayuki Yagami (Jun 1, 2017)

glass_houses said:


> That's really not the way it works. (Or doesn't work.) They're very different and you can have both at the same time. ADHD is cognitive, meaning that it's an information processing disorder. It's caused by a chemical imbalance and/or malfunctioning chemical receptors, and will usually respond to medications. BPD is a personality disorder. It's effectively a structural problem. You can drug people with BPD but all you can do is dope them up with something like Valium, basically sedating them so that the worst of the swings are moderately less destructive.
> 
> BTW, update on my very own BPD:
> 
> ...


Use that thing with her mistreating her mother as part of an argument.


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## Voltekka (Jun 13, 2017)

This disease is a fucking nightmare



Spoiler: Powerlevel



I have that, and I can say for sure; we are cunts. We take the identity of other people to cope with our lack of one, and we are very impulsive. Don't relate with these people.

BPD is basically, a mixture of autism and psychopathy. No joke.


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## beansntoast (Jun 22, 2017)

I've read that BPD is basically the same as CPTSD (complex post traumatic stress disorder), because the symptoms overlap heavily, the only difference is in in the cause:
when the pychiatrist/psychologists can't make out a trauma that causes this damage the patient gets diagnosed with BPD
when there is trauma in the patient's history, they get diagnosed with (C)PTSD

I've only ever interacted with BPD diagnosed people who had some kinda trauma (of course it's dependant on the therapist what they diagnose, after all...) and they all where more scared and meek, desperate for love/attention the trauma destroyed in them (my assumption) so this made them clingy and easy to frighten/overreactive when it comes to relationships. so from my experience there may be overlap, but yeah as said, never interacted with a no trauma BPD before. 

anyone read something similiar and can add in/debunk that? (may edit when I read up on the thread)


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## escapegoat (Jun 22, 2017)

cPTSD isn't a "real" diagnosis yet; it's not in the DSM. 

I do actually agree that Borderline is usually what they are calling cPTSD, though. I think Borderline itself is sort of analogous to "hysteria." It very often just seems to indicated some psych said, "She's a crazy woman, and fuck if i know." I have occasionally wondered how many women were diagnosed with BPD in the past, when psychs didn't see childhood sexual abuse or rape or DV as all that big a deal in terms of causing trauma responses.


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## beansntoast (Jun 22, 2017)

escapegoat said:


> cPTSD isn't a "real" diagnosis yet; it's not in the DSM.
> 
> I do actually agree that Borderline is usually what they are calling cPTSD, though. I think Borderline itself is sort of analogous to "hysteria." It very often just seems to indicated some psych said, "She's a crazy woman, and fuck if i know." I have occasionally wondered how many women were diagnosed with BPD in the past, when psychs didn't see childhood sexual abuse or rape or DV as all that big a deal in terms of causing trauma responses.



oh thanks! and yeah I agree, the borderline label gets thrown at girls who behave weird in some way rather often, I believe women are way more likely to be diagnosed with it than men, which is weird, because as far as I know the other PDs are relatively even

oh I read that psychiatrist back then didn't believe CSA victims, they made the children out to be liars and secretly in love with their dad/mom/whatever relative had raped them and that's how the concept of the "oedipus and elektra complex" came by

reading glass_houses story actually reminded me of one BPD guy I have/had absolutely no sympathy for, the ex boyfriend of a friend of mine. he was an absolutely vile and disgusting creature, completely addicted to the admiration of others (saying that, he might've been a narcissist actually, but he was diagnosed with BPD), lying about absouletly everything, he even lied to my friend that he had cancer in attempt to force her to marry him "before he dies", he hurt her big time and I'm glad she saw through his manipulation and broke up... though "to be fair" he did come from a very fucked up family, he said one of his uncles raped him and the others family members abused him and covered for his uncle, though don't know if I believe that, he was a pathological liar and would say about anything if he thought it would gain sympathy or admiration, like the cancer thing... or another example he boasted all the time abt his past one-night stands and that he was basically a male prostitute.... even though the dude was downright ugly. women rarely go to prostitutes in the first place, why would they go to some ugly unkept (he rarely showered!! he stank so terribly) psycho dude? I told him to his face that his storys are boring and repetitive and I have no interest in hearing them - he did not like that at all, though my friend was thankful for shutting him up.
BUT there was some proof that his family was fucked up, his brother actually murdered someone over a very benign thing and ended up in prison, that at least was true bc it was in the news


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## AnOminous (Jun 22, 2017)

escapegoat said:


> cPTSD isn't a "real" diagnosis yet; it's not in the DSM.



I've never known anyone with that diagnosis.  The only people I've ever seen claiming to have it are self-diagnosed tumblrinas who got sprayed with a squirt gun or someone disagreed with them on Twitter.


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## escapegoat (Jun 22, 2017)

Yeah, I honestly don't know if there's a need for the c. I mean... It's not totally wrong-sounding to think there might be a difference between "I endured this particular short blast of terrible shit" and "I endured terrible shit for really long periods of time." However, that "might" needs to be sussed out in clinical settings, and not on Tumblr.


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## Morose_Obesity (Jun 22, 2017)

Heimdallr said:


> Of all the personality disorders, this one scares  and saddens me the most: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml
> 
> 
> The people who suffer from it seem truly sad and pathetic. They are very lonely and they don't really have a "sense of self" to fall back on if they are rejected by other people. They have little to no developed sense of identity. In order to feel "whole" or even human they tend to latch onto other people. If they are rejected, they react with terrible anger and hatred.
> ...


Got a few in my bloodline, needless to say I don't talk to them anymore. They are lolcows themselves if they'd only post more online.


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## beansntoast (Jun 22, 2017)

not to :powerlevel: too much, but I have (actual  diagnosed) ptsd and I found the complex concept rather interesting and more specific as from my experience the overlap with BPD symptoms does apply, not only from my own symptoms, diagnoses and treatment but also from those of people I know and their overall behaviours and mindsets

it would be interesting to see some more research on long term trauma and treatment for it, and maybe it would help people who were originally diagnosed with BPD, too


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## Dual Rectifier (Jun 22, 2017)

To the people with BPD here, consider Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). It's been recently developed and it's proven to help individuals suffering from BPD and help them gain rational and reasonable worldviews instead of black and white thinking.


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## pickledance (Jun 22, 2017)

I've been open on this form in talking about my own experience with bpd so here it goes



Spoiler: insight that's tl;dr arguably relevant but also arguable powerlevel



There are over 730 combinations of symptoms that can net a person with the diagnosis of bpd, some combinations are worse than others but for the sake of this I can only really talk from my own experience as someone who has a formal diagnosis as BPD and some co-morbids for 12 years.

BPD lays on the fine line of neurotic disorders (anxiety, depression, ADHD) and psychotic disorder (schizophrenia) in that individuals do not experience full out delusion but are not without some form of delusional thought combined with neurosis. I know when people think of BPD they often think of the aggressive ones who lash out at others but there are just as many of use semi stealth bpds who never lash out at others or have major interpersonal issues but still maintain the diagnosis for other symptoms.

Bpd often stems from deeply ingrained child abuse. I'm not talking about being molested once or twice but a whole and systematic destruction of the sense of worth and value as an individual, often by parents or care givers. 

Now I'm not dropping this as a pity ploy or boo-hoo, it's what it is and it's done so I try not to get hung up over it, but that kind of abuse causes actual malformation of the brain. BPDs have smaller amigdalas, higher grey matter content in the fear hub of the deep brain and less where this interfaces with regulators to balance fear. The base emotion of BPD is a pretty constant state of “fight or flight” and that gets really old really fucking fast. Essentially when someone is forced to grow up in fear daily that becomes how the brain settles when it stops growing.

This is where the cutting and shit comes in. Cutting releases endorphins, same shit that heroine activates, so it can be very habit forming. The main function seems to be that physical pain can for a time quiet emotional pain and that underlying fear. We all need a break at times, it's a shit way to get one but it does work. I don't cut anymore.

BPD is only really treatable with a combo of some pretty intense meds and DBT based therapy that allows a person to learn to talk themselves down. I'm a huge practitioner of DBT and cognitive behavioral techniques to calm things down. I might also use the farms to let my inner cunt out when shit isn't working out too great.

I won't defend bpds who refuse to get treatment or drop the meds they need instead of talking to their doctor to adjust them when needed. Bpd people are often the worst examples of humanity, I accept this. Learning to re-write your brain takes time and effort and is difficult and doing destructive things is easy. I'm not joking about when I say becoming functional with BPD on a basic level is a full time job. Most people don't have to talk themselves down from being impulsive to deal with fear or delusions of malice or black and white thinking patterns multiple times a day while also getting enough exposure to the things that set you off for a brain to rewire to healthy skills. Recovery takes years when someone tries and never when they don't. Either way, those fear levels cut 5-25 years of a bpd person's life expectancy from cortisol fucking up your heart.

If I would want a person with out bpd to know anything about it than it's the notion that the person with bpd you're struggling with is a cornered animal, you can't see the wall, but they feel it on their back every day. A fox will bite off a foot to escape a trap, a human will too.


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## bbpoison (Jun 23, 2017)

I feel like I resemble the symptoms of BPD but the only trama I can think of is that my parents were very strict, believing there are proper ways of doing everything and my mom always is yelling and complaining. I have felt trapped because of her personality She always has this negative aura. Even when she appears to be calm. I feel like she's can only produce negative thoughts. Even though she gave me physical attention I feel like I dont relate to her or my father at all. I feel like an alien with a lot of people. I want to say I have BPD but I really don't believe BPD is actually like a disease. BPD may cover a certain behavioural tendency but I just don't see as something that you can have. I don't know. I just don't feel like there's something wrong with me. That why I kinda hate the word disorder. Sure, I'm atypical but I just feel like that's the way it is. There's nothing to "fix". Even though I am isolated right now.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Jun 23, 2017)

Gloomydoom said:


> Are people with BPD are any different than people with ADHD? I've met someone whose diagnose with ADHD and there not as hyperactive as everyone made out to be.


I was diagnosed with ADHD, and I am in no way hyper. There are different causes and types of this disorder, if you meet someone with hyperactivity, they're usually male, and they have "theory of mind" difficulties, not as bad as OPL, but they still get into a lot of trouble socially.


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## Medea23 (Jun 24, 2017)

BPD is on a continuum and also changes over time. Some people get better at dealing with their thoughts and behaviours as they mature and gain more experience. The level of insight and willingness to engage with therapy is a major factor in how BPD is expressed and experienced.
It is essential to recognise that while BPD has a set of common characteristics (hence its diagnostic use) how they are manifest and in what combination is highy individual.
By the way, upthread someone said that CBT is very helpful for those with BPD. Actually it is DBT (Dailectic Behaviour Therapy) which is most helpful. There is plenty of empirical evidence supporting DBT and it should be standard therapy. Of course it isn't because of lack of training and cost. Long term it makes economic sense but most decisions are made short term.


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## pickledance (Jun 24, 2017)

bbpoison said:


> I feel like I resemble the symptoms of BPD but the only trama I can think of is that my parents were very strict, believing there are proper ways of doing everything and my mom always is yelling and complaining. I have felt trapped because of her personality She always has this negative aura. Even when she appears to be calm. I feel like she's can only produce negative thoughts. Even though she gave me physical attention I feel like I dont relate to her or my father at all. I feel like an alien with a lot of people. I want to say I have BPD but I really don't believe BPD is actually like a disease. BPD may cover a certain behavioural tendency but I just don't see as something that you can have. I don't know. I just don't feel like there's something wrong with me. That why I kinda hate the word disorder. Sure, I'm atypical but I just feel like that's the way it is. There's nothing to "fix". Even though I am isolated right now.


If your impulsive issues are not effecting you on a daily basis than you probably don't have it. My mom was extremely controlling so that can cause part of the issue. I personally think you sound like you have some form of trauma and should maybe see a therapist and talk out you mom stuff and how to deal with it.


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## Morose_Obesity (Jun 24, 2017)

I grew up in a super-violent crack ghetto, plus white trash family bullshit I can't post about or I'd powerlevel, hard.

 So far I'm diagnosed bipolar, Ptsd and Ocd. In real life I'm sort of a crankier version of Bukowski who doesn't gamble. I exhibit traits of Bpd but it's mostly because I grew up with a few peeps like that.and it rubbed off on me, I do dbt and it helps. I used to get in lots of fistfights.

 Two people I'm related to have fucked up so bad with their bpd they've moved states a few times to start fresh but then they nuke everything again. Like, death threats bad. Haven't seen them in over 12 years and will only go to their funeral to make sure they really aren't a threat anymore. Won't shed a tear otherwise. Didn't when my asshole parents died.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Jun 24, 2017)

The Shed said:


> BPD is a bitch. I think it deserves more research, but since patients with BPD are notoriously uncooperative and unresponsive to traditional therapy, the psych community is reluctant to delve further into it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it could be cured with DBT.


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## pickledance (Jun 24, 2017)

Daughter of Pomona said:


> I thought it could be cured with DBT.


recovery is hard and rare for full recovery. So not always, it depends on how hard the person wants it vs using destructive coping like drugs, cutting and eating disorders. Saying it's a cure is kind of an over statement, you can't cure a broken brain, just manage it.


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## Medea23 (Jun 25, 2017)

pickledance said:


> If your impulsive issues are not effecting you on a daily basis than you probably don't have it.


This is not true. The presence of particular behaviours and feelings dating from early adulthood are used for diagnosis, and there is no frequency specified in the diagnostic criteria. 



pickledance said:


> recovery is hard and rare for full recovery. So not always, it depends on how hard the person wants it vs using destructive coping... you can't cure a broken brain, just manage it.


I completely agree.


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## cuddle striker (Jun 25, 2017)

cptsd is used only in description of symptoms right now and is not a diagnosis. it's used because people who are subjected to prolonged trauma have different symptoms than those with a single event as cause.


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## pickledance (Jun 25, 2017)

Medea23 said:


> This is not true. The presence of particular behaviours and feelings dating from early adulthood are used for diagnosis, and there is no frequency specified in the diagnostic criteria.
> 
> 
> I completely agree.


But those behaviors all revolve around being impulsive due to the amygdala abnormalities present in BPD, whether impulsively lashing out, or impulsively self medicating/cutting, being suicidal or engaging in risky behavior, it's all linked to impulse due to fear reaction. If there is no impulse in your actions then you're more likely to be diagnosed as something like narcissistic or skitzoid depending on if you have dissociation qualities. The diagnosis requires _rapid_ mood instability as opposed to slow cycling that can separate it from Bipolar, meaning if your moods aren't flipping or making you impulsive than it's probably something else.


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## Medea23 (Jun 25, 2017)

pickledance said:


> The diagnosis requires _rapid_ mood instability as opposed to slow cycling that can separate it from Bipolar, meaning if your moods aren't flipping or making you impulsive than it's probably something else.


I was referring to your statement that the behaviours should be 'occurring everyday'. That is simply not true. The rapid cycling does indeed occur quickly; and that can mean within a 24 hour period; but it hasn't got to occur everyday to lead to a diagnosis of BPD.
The rest of your post is irrelevant to my comment.


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## Tlazolli (Jun 25, 2017)

I got misdiagnosed with BPD as a preteen, turns out I was just a hyperactive verbally abused child


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## Medea23 (Jun 25, 2017)

Tlazolli said:


> I got misdiagnosed with BPD



There's a lot misdiagnosis around. Several factors contribute: the internet, catching fleas, attention seeking and Drs that are shit scared of being sued if they miss something. This helps explain the mushrooming population of the wrongly diagnosed.

Plus in the US the Drs and therapists want paying and the pharmaceutical companies want to sell their products.

So many snakes and so much snake oil.


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## pickledance (Jun 25, 2017)

Medea23 said:


> I was referring to your statement that the behaviours should be 'occurring everyday'. That is simply not true. The rapid cycling does indeed occur quickly; and that can mean within a 24 hour period; but it hasn't got to occur everyday to lead to a diagnosis of BPD.
> The rest of your post is irrelevant to my comment.


It is, the diagnosis calls for a "The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations." as DSM5 (top of the page on what constitutes a personality disorder), it's what marks it as a personality disorder and not just "oops I guess today is a bad day". Persuasive is the key word there and what links it to destructive coping, people don't jump on the ED, cutting and meth bandwagon unless what they are feeling is generally shit to the point that they just don't care about consequence.


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## Medea23 (Jun 26, 2017)

An enduring pattern does not mean daily, neither does pervasive. Many characteristics of disorders are enduring and pervasive but are not exhibited daily.

I do not know why you cannot grasp the difference between the concept of everyday and enduring.

I am bored with explaining that traits do not have to be exhibited daily to be recognised as part of a personality disorder.

It is not that hard.

It is pointless to explain why and how I know what I am talking about and am off now to waste my time with other less boring, pointless discussion and threads. I do this for fun not validation.

I watch a lot of Columbo, so 'one more thing' that you might have missed in your internet searching. Diagnosis is highly subjective as are the terms 'persuasive', 'enduring' and 'pervasive'. That's one reason some people don't regard psychiatric diagnosis as particularly reliable or valid.
And now I really am going to fuck off.


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## beansntoast (Jun 26, 2017)

Tlazolli said:


> I got misdiagnosed with BPD as a preteen, turns out I was just a hyperactive verbally abused child



I thought psychiatrists/psychologists weren't allowed to diagnose children and teenagers with personality disorders or that it was frowned upon at least, as "weird" behaviour ist quite normal when you're still in development bc your brain can't really deal with all the hormones and sensory overload + it's still highly plastic until your teens so you might very well "outgrow" them, and many children do

talking about brain plasticity: I don't believe you can ever fully cure prolonged childhood trauma or personality disorders and the likes, at least not if you start therapy after the critical phase. ater that brain plasticity drops extremely and you're basically stuck with all the shit you've endured as a kid forever. it's very hard to rewire an adult brain and it takes a lot of time, but it can never change to such a degree as a chid's brain can.
though I obviously believe you can do some rewiring and learn to deal with your shit in a non destructive fashion.


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## cuddle striker (Jun 26, 2017)

they don't diagnose personality disorders in minors. ODD or ADHD or RAD or the like, but personality disorders are fixed; teenagers are not fixed in their personality yet.

nobody is diagnosed with these until they're eighteen.

edited to add: it's in the diagnostic criteria and has been for decades.


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## Darwin Watterson (Jul 12, 2017)

Darwin Watterson said:


> I've dated at least one girl whom I now suspect to have had borderline. It was a horrible experience.
> 
> The funny thing is that one of my other friends liked her too, but she ended up liking me instead of him. He resented me for a while after that, but after the relationship was over and done with, I told him he ought to thank me for essentially taking a bullet for him.
> 
> He's a much more emotionally fragile person than me, and I honestly believe he'd have come away from that far worse than I did. And I had quite a big mental scar from her, so that's really saying a lot.


This bears a bit of elaboration. I won't go into too much detail because doing so would be powerleveling, though I can at least talk a little about her.

Like how innocuous comments would cause her to completely lose her shit and yell for hours. Or how she initially made a point out of being "the cool girlfriend" who didn't try to monopolize my time or push me away from my friends, but later decided that my friends were losers and she hated them, and tried to get me to stop talking to them. Or how she chimped out at me and accused me of not trying in the relationship when I didn't immediately make a Facebook status announcing our one-year anniversary. Or how after we'd already broken up, she chimped out again when she found out I was talking to a female friend (she'd always hated this girl and thought she was trying to steal me; she wasn't, and I wasn't even "talking to her" in that way).

There was worse stuff that she did which I won't get into, but this was just to give you an idea of what I had to deal with. We dated for about a year and a half. And yes, I DID have a good reason for putting up with her for that long. She lived in a nice area, and her family was very well-off. What started as a genuine fondness for her (because of course she wasn't like this initially) eventually turned into "okay, just endure this for a little while longer and you'll be set for life." Say what you want, but I was thinking about my future.

Oh, and to add a layer of irony, her mother was a child psychologist. During one of her more stable periods, she actually acknowledged that she probably had something wrong with her, but that she was never given any sort of help as a child because it would make her mother look bad to be a child psychologist with a child of her own getting psychological help.


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## cuddle striker (Jul 12, 2017)

Darwin Watterson said:


> it would make her mother look bad to be a child psychologist with a child of her own getting psychological help.



narcissists create, and are drawn to, BPD. It's like hand in glove.


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## Darwin Watterson (Jul 12, 2017)

She was never diagnosed with BPD (or anything, for that matter), but in my non-professional opinion she either had that or narcissism. She had symptoms of both, but I lean towards BPD because her ego was very fragile and she didn't really try to hide that fact unlike a narcissist. I didn't really have much contact with her parents so I can't say whether or not they had anything. Though her mother _was_ very controlling.


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## cuddle striker (Jul 12, 2017)

I'm very carefully not saying anything about kiwis who have been involved with BPD people.  You either see the mayhem coming and escape asap, or you've got some reason to enjoy it and stay for more.


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## glass_houses (Jul 13, 2017)

resonancer said:


> I'm very carefully not saying anything about kiwis who have been involved with BPD people.  You either see the mayhem coming and escape asap, or you've got some reason to enjoy it and stay for more.


In theory this is true, in practice, no. All Cluster B personality disorders have a significant tendency to both seek out vulnerable people and then latch on like a tick. They are incredibly manipulative. I worked with a man for two years, and I'm dead certain the freak was a narcissist. He was charming and all of management were convinced that the mountain of complaints about him were racism and jealousy. Cluster Bs will sniff out mental illness and intellectual and. social impairments like a trained dog will sniff out narcotics. People whose families were dysfunctional can have a hell of a time learning that who and what they grew with isn't normal, and that's how domestic abuse is an endlessly perpetual cycle. And then you have people who are genuinely caring, who need.to have their own debts paid forward, who buy into the love thy neighbour crap, the misery lit genre, who have managed to help others whose behaviour is superficially similar to a Cluster B. Things like PTSD and bipolar can be confused with BPD even by a trained eye, so people who have their own complex mental conditions will feel affinity for BPD. And even when the Cluster B target is shrewd, knowledgeable, and has a well developed sense of self preservation, there are going to be times where their judgement is impaired and they are suddenly extremely vulnerable. That's why there's endless accounts from people who were grieving a loss of some kind and found themselves victims of an obvious scam that even they themselves can't figure out why they didn't see it coming.

There are many reasons why someone will buy into a BPD nightmare. And given that BPD tend to be sexually freaky and seemingly vulnerable by turns, it's easy for them to trap others who are prone to thinking with their joy department. And even when someone suddenly realises that they've been taken for a while, it can be incredibly difficult to extract themselves, because the first thing a BPD does after latching on is to destroy their target's reputation and relationships with others, leaving them isolated and without the resources to get the fuck out of there.

BPDs are the human equivalent of a Great White tasting blood in the water, and unlike a Great White, their hunting techniques are infinitely flexible and complex. If you've never been hit by one, believe me when I say that it's not entirely due to your social skills and honed bullshit detecting abilities; you've had more luck than you realise because there wasn't a Cluster B Disorder close enough to track you down before you stopped bleeding into the water.


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## cuddle striker (Jul 13, 2017)

glass_houses said:


> In theory this is true, in practice, no. All Cluster B personality disorders have a significant tendency to both seek out vulnerable people and then latch on like a tick. They are incredibly manipulative. I worked with a man for two years, and I'm dead certain the freak was a narcissist. He was charming and all of management were convinced that the mountain of complaints about him were racism and jealousy. Cluster Bs will sniff out mental illness and intellectual and. social impairments like a trained dog will sniff out narcotics. People whose families were dysfunctional can have a hell of a time learning that who and what they grew with isn't normal, and that's how domestic abuse is an endlessly perpetual cycle. And then you have people who are genuinely caring, who need.to have their own debts paid forward, who buy into the love thy neighbour crap, the misery lit genre, who have managed to help others whose behaviour is superficially similar to a Cluster B. Things like PTSD and bipolar can be confused with BPD even by a trained eye, so people who have their own complex mental conditions will feel affinity for BPD. And even when the Cluster B target is shrewd, knowledgeable, and has a well developed sense of self preservation, there are going to be times where their judgement is impaired and they are suddenly extremely vulnerable. That's why there's endless accounts from people who were grieving a loss of some kind and found themselves victims of an obvious scam that even they themselves can't figure out why they didn't see it coming.
> 
> There are many reasons why someone will buy into a BPD nightmare. And given that BPD tend to be sexually freaky and seemingly vulnerable by turns, it's easy for them to trap others who are prone to thinking with their joy department. And even when someone suddenly realises that they've been taken for a while, it can be incredibly difficult to extract themselves, because the first thing a BPD does after latching on is to destroy their target's reputation and relationships with others, leaving them isolated and without the resources to get the fuck out of there.
> 
> BPDs are the human equivalent of a Great White tasting blood in the water, and unlike a Great White, their hunting techniques are infinitely flexible and complex. If you've never been hit by one, believe me when I say that it's not entirely due to your social skills and honed bullshit detecting abilities; you've had more luck than you realise because there wasn't a Cluster B Disorder close enough to track you down before you stopped bleeding into the water.


oh, don't get me wrong. I'm talking more about the high level of autism here


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## glass_houses (Jul 13, 2017)

resonancer said:


> oh, don't get me wrong. I'm talking more about the high level of autism here


Oh yes, autistics are definitely one of their favourite foods.


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## Dovahshit (Jul 20, 2017)

glass_houses said:


> Oh yes, autistics are definitely one of their favourite foods.


_see: amberlynn and krystle/destiny_


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## Jack Haywood (Aug 1, 2020)

NECRO:

A psychoanalyst called Otto Kernberg developed the STIPO-R test specifically to classify and identify borderlines. The dimensions are scored from 1 to 5 and the three most important ones for BPD are: identity, (ability to define yourself and others) object relations (ability to maintain relationships) and morality.

If most of these 3 dimensions are at scores 3 to 5, that's when BPD is diagnosed.



			https://www.borderlinedisorders.com/structured-interview-of-personality-organization.php


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## mr.moon1488 (Aug 1, 2020)

Thread got necroed, but if people are interested, here's the DSM-V PDF.


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## cuddle striker (Aug 1, 2020)

mr.moon1488 said:


> Thread got necroed, but if people are interested, here's the DSM-V PDF.


interesting, thanks for this.


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## A Grey Cat (Aug 2, 2020)

BPD and ecstasy is a dangerous combo, like psychos and guns.


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## mr.moon1488 (Aug 2, 2020)

cuddle striker said:


> interesting, thanks for this.


No problem


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## whitepumpkin (Aug 2, 2020)

If you suspect someone of having BPD, definitely get them to go see a psychiatrist and get a proper diagnosis. A lot of psychiatrists won't touch BPD with a ten-foot pole but will direct individuals to programs full of people that are trained to deal with them and use behaviour therapy. Like, actual therapies that have success, not the quack ones like rubbing essential oils on your forehead.

Also some BPD'ers can be normal and have lapses (definitely should still be told to go to therapy) so they can survive relatively well, but when you meet the real crazy ones, even when diagnosed and on pills... Holy shit. It's a fucking wonder how some people survive.


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## Jack Haywood (Oct 21, 2020)

Also, there's some interesting info from a manual on that site I linked. According to it, borderlines tend to have a warped sense of sexuality where they get off on being paraphiliacs and/or aggressively violating others, which definitely describes Nick Bates and Zoosadists down to a tee. That's on page 29.


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## King Daddy Telomerase (Oct 23, 2020)

I'm recovering from a recent relationship with a BPD woman and all I can say is my heart goes out to those who have suffered through similar. She always knew the right things to say to me. She memorized damn near everything I ever told her in confidence. She reached out to me more than anyone ever has emotionally, sexually, and wanted to please my socially retarded autistic brain every second. She sopped up every drop of autistic vulnerability I threw at her with love and compassion.

And not a bit of that was genuine human emotion.


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## Jack Haywood (Jun 20, 2021)

ANOTHER NECRO:


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## Dyn (Jun 20, 2021)

I don't know what you softboys are crying about, bpd thots make the best partners.


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## Jack Haywood (Jun 20, 2021)

Dyn said:


> I don't know what you softboys are crying about, bpd thots make the best partners.


I'm not the least bit surprised that _you're_ saying this.


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## Dyn (Jun 20, 2021)

Jack Haywood said:


> I'm not the least bit surprised that _you're_ saying this.


Because you know I'm man enough to keep a bpd thot firmly in check?


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## Jack Haywood (Jun 20, 2021)

Dyn said:


> Because you know I'm man enough to keep a bpd thot firmly in check?


Because pointless shitposting is your MO.


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## Android raptor (Jun 20, 2021)

Damn cant believe theres a thread on me


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 21, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Damn cant believe theres a thread on me


Speak. We know you're waiting for the prompt.


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## Cabelaz (Jun 23, 2021)

glass_houses said:


> _NOTE: The following comes from a combination of a blog post and a highly detailed and lengthy email to a friend. It's extremely tl;dr and while I've cut a fair amount of detail out of it there's still a huge amount of :autism: in here. Read at your own frustration or leisure. As I do indeed have the diagnosed :autism: and other mental issues on top of an interesting life with 'interesting' people, please take me at my word when I say that I don't actively seek out or tolerate the company of predators. I'm just really, really bad at knowing when I'm in trouble and need to start running, when even Blind Freddy is long gone. _
> 
> 
> I'm living with one. She's very likely to be the third I've had the misfortune to live with, although she seems to be the only one with a formal diagnosis. I'd read online that there are some BPD who have insight into their own disorder and that while they can't control that little switch in their head, when it flicks back they can objectively see the damage they've caused and they do their best to clean it up and make amends. I'd thought that she might be one of this minority, but even when her switch is turned off, she's still a fucking nightmare. Switch on, she's highly aggressive and unpredictable. Switch off, she stops screaming and becomes sneaky and incredibly manipulative.
> ...


Woah.. uh, creepy read. If you don't mind me asking how'd it turn out? Is she still driving you insane?


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## glass_houses (Jun 24, 2021)

Cabelaz said:


> Woah.. uh, creepy read. If you don't mind me asking how'd it turn out? Is she still driving you insane?


We kicked her out. Good riddance.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jun 24, 2021)

Dyn said:


> Because you know I'm man enough to keep a bpd thot firmly in check?


No, I trust that. See, @Jack Haywood, what you're not getting is that @Dyn can just breathe fire and literally-- not figuratively, _literally_-- roast any BPD thot that crosses him. They know that. 

That's what keeps them in check.


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## Kornula (Jun 25, 2021)

I still do not get why the DSRM uses "borderline"  personality disorder..when it's clearly not at the borderline..or near it. They totally ignore most borders and boundaries.


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## Jack Haywood (Jun 25, 2021)

Kornula said:


> I still do not get why the DSRM uses "borderline"  personality disorder..when it's clearly not at the borderline..or near it. They totally ignore most borders and boundaries.


Borderline is a psychoanalytic term used for patients that fell between neurotic and psychotic that entered common usage to refer to a particular set of personality disorder traits.


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## Dyn (Jun 25, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> No, I trust that. See, @Jack Haywood, what you're not getting is that @Dyn can just breathe fire and literally-- not figuratively, _literally_-- roast any BPD thot that crosses him. They know that.
> 
> That's what keeps them in check.


I should write a guide on how to date BPD's you have to get the abuse just right.


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## Donker (Apr 18, 2022)

@glass_houses

Goddamn your post is almost identical to my current Roommate. This one is a dude and my fucking god, MY FUCKING GOD. 


Spoiler: Crazy ass BPD roommate psychopath.



The constant fucking lying, the constant trying to "borrow" money then gaslight you into that he never, ever "borrowed" anything, being an all round lazy entitled prick who uses his BPD diagnosis as a shield to do anything that involves him getting off his lazy ass and not watching the same fucking Marvel movies on repeat over and over and over again every fucking day in the Common area.

Motherfucker talks at *literally 80-105dB* and I've tested this with my sound meter hidden, so it's very likely it's even pushing 110dB and the fucker never has a "conversation" he just talks, at you, relentlessly, fucker will just talk at me through my door at like 6am while I'm still sleeping. 

The annoying thing is, he constantly lies and has to always be the center of attention, if you're having any conversation with him, say about I don't know, a T-Rex, he will make some up some bullshit "fact" about the T-Rex that is very obviously not real, and if you challenge him on it, he will then get really pissy, pretend to look it up online and then go "there see, fact, Wikipedia it says, *reads out something he clearly is making up*", so again, no real point having conversations with him. He also can't stand anyone else talking with someone that isn't him in the room, so I know as a fact BPDroomie, doesn't give a fucking shit about anime, he hates it actually, Marvel is the best thing ever, anime is overrated shit obviously, so me and mutual were talking about Evangelion, and suddenly, BPDroomie, pretends to be super interested in Evangelion and Anime "Oh tell me about this anime, its so cool, I've always loved anime" even though I know as fact he fucking despises Anime because he sees it as a "competitor" to Marvel.

On Money, when it comes to his money schemes, and ripping me and all his friends and anyone else off, the dude is a complete fucking psychopath. So anyway, sadly, he was the first person in this house, so he controls the bills, so we have to pay him to pay the bills, he uses this relentlessly to try scam the shit out of us. One of his usual scams is to pretend that he doesn't have enough money to cover the bills, so we need to pay him "early" or some shit, even if he knows, with me, for example, that paying bills 2 weeks early will absolutely fuck me over to the point I can't even eat, He will do it. One time, his scam literally left me eating out of the trash, that night, he literally ordered $60 worth of fast food and ate it in front of me. No remorse whatsoever. 

This is something I've noticed with BPDs, not only him, but ex girlfriend I had, other BPD roommates in the past (This guy is no.3 and by far the worst, the others were women, and much younger so couldn't wield BPD manipulation as effectively against me). They are constantly testing the limits, to wear you down, and force you into submission. He pushed and pushed and pushed for that money, _knowing _it would leave me without food money for 2 weeks, then the ordering $60 worth of fast food, was a power move, the whole point was "That's right, you're my fucking bitch". He then started doing this shit regularly, the thing is, it's hard not to just submit because not submitting, means you're dealing with a fucking manchild psychopath with a vendetta, it's often easier to just pay him than deal with the week long psychotic tantrum resisting will ensue. 

The thing is as well, this guy genuinely thinks he's a great friend to me, I honestly think he may love me or something, because he's fucking obsessed. I get text messages and phone calls when I'm out relentlessly, hundreds of phone calls and text messages a day. He will call my work, try make my manager "let me off early" so I can come be with him, he will sometimes threaten suicide. Even my manager, workmates are like "What, the, fuck!?!" and he doesn't give a fucking shit that it costs me a days wage every time he does this and it makes me look like a fucking bitch having to fucking submit to the insane whims of with this person in their mid-late 20s who has the mental constitution of a fucking clingy toddler. Motherfucker literally did this one, threatening suicide and all, so I could go pick up fucking fast food for him.

Oh and that's another point, he non stop brags about how fucking "hard" he is, and all the "badass" shit he did in the past, which I assume are all lies, because my god, I've literally raised children since I grew up in a multi-generational household, and I swear, he is more thin-skinned than _a fucking 5-year-old_. I've known literal toddlers with more independence and self-actualisation. A lot of his behavior makes sense when you view his actions through the lens of a clingy toddler, in both self-actualisation, control of his emotions, co-dependence and understanding of morality. The thing is, this toddler is a fucking adult so has all the baggage of that. You know those UK Nonce hunting videos where it's clear all the paedos have the mental age of a 7 year old, just with adult sexual urges? That's is pretty much this guy with his self-awareness and emotions.



I legitimately think he is well beyond BPD though, there is unrelenting NPD comorbidity there as well and I genuinely think any serious psych would put him in the Secondary Psychopathy category and surprised he hasn't been diagnosed a secondary psychopath already alongside BPD diagnosis. I'm his "Best friend" and he has literally no remorse making me eat out of the fucking trash and constantly stealing from me. He does this with all his other friends as well. What's worse, he "borrowed" money from a mutual friend he knew was suicidal, then when that person sent a message "Can you please pay me back? I need to pay my rent, I will get evicted" he turned to me and said "hahaha look at this loser, wah wah i am going to be evicted wah wah, hard lesson, never give money  to a hustler" this motherfucker said this to me, while he owes me $500 _easily_.

Could go on and on, that said, I'm almost out of this place, lease is coming to an end in the next couple weeks, and I'm on the hunt for a new place even if the rent means I can only afford baked beans.


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## Manul Otocolobus (Apr 19, 2022)

A number of groups, starting with the DSM-IV, wanted BPD to not be included because they believed it was sexist since the diagnosis is about 90% women. I always thought that was interesting.

It wasn't until the last 15 years or so that BPD was considered treatable, with a specific form of therapy called DBT (and some meds can help, in a minor way). Before that, it was considered a Class X disorder, which meant "Untreatable". Many people still think it is Class X just due to the fact that it was classified as non-treatable for so long. This, unfortunately, keeps many people from getting the help they need. Many people are equally skeptical that BPD can be treated. I know for a fact it can since I knew a clinical practitioner of DBT and she saw tremendous success with her BPD patients.

My general recommendation is to stay as far away as possible from anyone with BPD that isn't under active treatment.


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## Grand Omega (Apr 19, 2022)

One of my exes had BPD, a friend of mine who seemingly vanished off the earth had a wife who was borderline, and a ex coworker also displayed signs of it. Unless they are going through hardcore therapy on their emotional control and thought patterns, the best thing to do is to distance yourself as far as humanly possible and avoid a zero sum scenario.


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## Donker (Apr 19, 2022)

Manul Otocolobus said:


> It wasn't until the last 15 years or so that BPD was considered treatable, with a specific form of therapy called DBT (and some meds can help, in a minor way). Before that, it was considered a Class X disorder, which meant "Untreatable". Many people still think it is Class X just due to the fact that it was classified as non-treatable for so long. This, unfortunately, keeps many people from getting the help they need. Many people are equally skeptical that BPD can be treated. I know for a fact it can since I knew a clinical practitioner of DBT and she saw tremendous success with her BPD patients.


Does DBT actually work or does it just make the pwBPD high functioning? BPDs all seem to think they're raging successes (but that's typical with BPD, oh look I'm fine and a good person cope), but reading BPDlovedones, it seems most just seem to think it makes their partner less erratic and less emotionally unstable, while all the manipulative, amoral behavior remains. So like it just turns them from BPD into Psychopaths essentially.
I would think to really treat BPD, you first need to treat the underlying CPTSD trauma first.


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## Sailor Kim Jong Moon (Apr 19, 2022)

I’ve worked as a psych tech. I’ve met many Classic Borderlines. You can see em a mile away: the hyper sexuality, the self harm, the threats, the hypochondria, the Disney tattoos, the muh ANXIETY, the <talking loudly about being raped>, etc.

There’s also “Diagnosed” Borderline - who I suspect don’t have it or if they do, a mild form. They’re usually younger (sub 25/college aged) women who are more resilient in comparison & present normally at least on the unit. Typically, they just went through a shitty break up and tried to die. Besides that incident & outside of their romantic relationship, their work/family relationships are stable. They act appropriately. I suspect the identity crisis is tied with youthfulness + unstable childhood. I’ve not encountered anyone over 25 who presents with this “quiet” borderline behavior - making me think it’s not actually borderline or that age turns quiet borderlines into somewhat functioning middle aged women hence why we don’t have any quiet BPD 30y/olds on a hold.

I would take anything on Reddit with a grain of salt. It seems like every guy I’ve talked to has a “my crazy ex with BPD!!” story, making me think they actually don’t know what they’re talking about. ((PL: Plus I’ve known at least one guy who cheated on his fiancé repeatedly & when she became angry/depressed and left him, he accused her of being BPD. This guy accuses every single girl he has dated of being abusive, tbf.))

And also, I think encouraging patients with personality disorders or substance abuse disorder to study philosophy or some moral framework in therapy would be life changing. After all BPD was known as “moral insanity.” ((And I’ve known a few ‘normal’ junkies that behaved so callously it would blow your mind. Reminds me a bit of Casey Anthony, who also had a normal psych eval.))

And lastly, I think some “quiet” borderlines would benefit from not only moral/philosophical study and mindfulness/coping skill practice - but also from being connected to community. A lot of the “quiet” borderlines that are college aged females feel lonely and isolated most often because they are lonely and isolated. Getting them connected to community & hitting that hierarchy of needs can do wonders.

My 2 cents. I was a psych tech. I got paid 10 bucks to spit bags over peoples heads, alright?

Edit: Classic Borderlines you can’t help. Idk, toss them some anti psychotics & bill their insurance because there’s very little to work with.


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## BiggerChungus (Apr 20, 2022)

Minimal powerleveling, but I've got borderline, and truly having it can be life-ruining. It's not unbeatable though, for those of you with friends or partners with it. It's been about a decade since I first saw a psychiatrist and got diagnosed, and therapy and faith have gotten me to a point where I don't have the same kinds of "episodes" anymore. It's not something you ever completely get away from, but it can be managed and probably more easily than shit like bipolar disorder.


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## Osmosis Jones (Apr 20, 2022)

Donker said:


> Does DBT actually work or does it just make the pwBPD high functioning? BPDs all seem to think they're raging successes (but that's typical with BPD, oh look I'm fine and a good person cope), but reading BPDlovedones, it seems most just seem to think it makes their partner less erratic and less emotionally unstable, while all the manipulative, amoral behavior remains. So like it just turns them from BPD into Psychopaths essentially.
> I would think to really treat BPD, you first need to treat the underlying CPTSD trauma first.





BiggerChungus said:


> Minimal powerleveling, but I've got borderline, and truly having it can be life-ruining. It's not unbeatable though, for those of you with friends or partners with it. It's been about a decade since I first saw a psychiatrist and got diagnosed, and therapy and faith have gotten me to a point where I don't have the same kinds of "episodes" anymore. It's not something you ever completely get away from, but it can be managed and probably more easily than shit like bipolar disorder.


Here's my insight, also with minimal plvl.

A psychiatrist told me that borderline isn't diagnosed in young people. Borderline requires many years of repetitive behaviour to be classified as such. The current "catch-all" in many psychiatric areas is "Cluster B Traits", used to encompass the very wide and varied symptoms of NPD, BPD, and other such disorders, and it's "safe" to use on adolescents and young adults with a focus on treating symptoms, not the disorder.

DBT acknowledges (indirectly) that one-on-one therapy only serves the disorder and provides little progress or development. DBT focuses on teaching real lessons and giving real tools and is most effective in a group setting. Cluster B Disorders can be heavily curbed if detected before or in early adulthood (under 30), in a period before unhealthy relationship habits are formed and a foundation of reactive behaviour and mismanaged emotions become concrete. Does DBT work? In a group setting with someone who is fully willing to work to improve, yes, nearly absolutely. Relapse is dependent on the individual and their willingness to use the information and tools given to them, as with all psychiatric disorders.

The refusal to improve is for the same reasons that schizophrenics don't want help, in a way. The disorder prevents them from getting it. There is an element of shame _or_ grandiosity that walls of the pathway of treatment, just as a schizo's paranoia would prevent them from seeing a doctor or taking meds. Some people are smart enough to pick up early on and get help and some need to be forced. The rest will suffer.

BPD is seriously fucked up in the delusions and habits it gives a person if not corrected. I also believe that current times have exacerbated the conditions under which the disorder festers and grows. With the destruction of the nuclear family, the rebuke of religion & faith, the isolation and lack of a local community, and the lack of personal development and purpose and self-discipline all make things worse. While I believe the disorder to be heavily based in physiology and neurology, there are far more instances of the disorder becoming prevalent because of a lack of the things listed. It's typical to take a long time to form a solid identity and set of values for a great many people. Life is very chaotic and ever-changing up until you reach your 30s where things begin to become more routine. The problem is people having _zero_ guidance once they leave highschool other than a social circle that will rapidly shrink and families that are often fractured. So they grow up with no values, no relationships, no development, and don't even have a simple foundation to grow from. I notice more and more that Gen X (or whatever is 1960-1980) parents took a hands-off parenting approach after having been one of the last generations heavily subjected to the church and Western tradition as a whole. Where their parents were very strict and specific about what they wanted for them and the core family values, they have chosen to lay off completely in the same areas. (Just look at the divorce rate since that time period)

So many cases of psychiatric disorder would up and vanish if the sufferer had:

Improved their lifestyle with diet and exercise
Obtained meaningful work (no, not part-time cashier and being so fat your legs don't work is not a disability that precludes working)
Removed toxic influences from their life (addictions, relationships, habits)
Replaced those influences with a healthy community or group such as a church, skate park, weekly game night, what have you.
Honestly recognized there's something wrong and they need improvement
If any future Minecraft genociders are listening, weed out every single cluster B sufferer and get rid of them. Humanity will be better for it, far better off than targeting any other group. Unmanageable sufferers of Cluster B Disorders are full dead weight on humanity.


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## Sailor Kim Jong Moon (Apr 20, 2022)

I’m too lazy to quote because there’s no reply button.

But I agree. I think most psychologists, therapists, and social workers are pretty dumb on their own & cant think outside the DSM to save their life.

But I have one half ass theory that “modern life” (break down of family, skewed social media, frequent moves/no roots, no church, etc) has made people with depression mimic the DSM criteria BPD.

Apparently people with shitty families, little to no friends, dead end job, little to no way to meet new people, no progression forward etc shouldn’t be so depressed like their human nature suggests - but instead should have the acceptance of a Buddhist monk.

—
Here’s a made up example I pulled together: Jane grows up in a tumultuous home and moves frequently with her military family. Her parents are emotionally abusive to her and physically abusive to each other. The frequent moves prevents her from assimilating to any school- in fact she’s been to 6 different high schools due to moving & family drama. When she graduates, she goes straight into a dead end job but works only with two 60 year old ladies. She is chronically lonely, despite having a good friendship with her co-workers. She knows absolutely no one her age and isn’t religious, so no church. (Plus the local church has a very aging congregation anyway.)

She meets one guy on a dating app - there isn’t anywhere else to meet people IRL, after all. They hit it off and date for ~2 years. They break up due to him cheating. The guy has no friends either except the girl he cheated on her with. She has no one now and has lost 100% of her close relationships. Losing 1 relationship hurts, but when that relationship makes up a huge proportion or all of your close support it’s incredibly painful.

So you have: isolation + dead end job + grief of break up + unstable childhood + financial difficulties. Is it really shocking when the 20 year old decides “fuck it, life isn’t worth living”?

After getting her stomach pumped, the psych doc says she has borderline. After all, she has no friends! And is clearly overly afraid of abandonment!
—

Sound far fetched? Not really.

I read somewhere that 1/4 Gen Z-ers don’t have a single confidant. And a huge chunk have never met there friends “in real life” - they’re all discord buddies.

So if having no friends is a Borderline trait, then a huge chunk of the population could fit that.

The truth is, a Classic Borderline can be spotted from a mile away. Maybe my experience has skewed my judgement, because I was in a psych ward that took in extremes. But either way, the minute these people start talking you can tell they have borderline. (Hint: they’re likely to hold hands with the schizo on the ward romantically, be incredibly inappropriate, and display aggression towards staff.)

It’s the normal, sad types that don’t make sense to me. Sure, they have no friends, their romantic relationships suck, and their self esteem is low - but their behavior is overwhelmingly typical in most situations and contexts.

To me, that’s grief, and situational/major depression.

Anyway, I expect a huge surge to continue of BPD. Because the formula is there to CREATE genuine borderlines and because the living conditions of 2022 mimic the symptoms in otherwise depressed patients.

2 cents.

Double edit:: Bianca Devins (the murder victim) most likely had borderline. She was a Classic and it’s pretty painful obvious from the chat logs. ((I just googled it & it’s confirmed. See how easy it is to spot? If you date a Classic borderline, you need to look in the mirror because you the crazy one.))


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## 20 Mule Team Lorax (Apr 23, 2022)

Sailor Kim Jong Moon said:


> The truth is, a Classic Borderline can be spotted from a mile away. Maybe my experience has skewed my judgement, because I was in a psych ward that took in extremes. But either way, the minute these people start talking you can tell they have borderline. (Hint: they’re likely to hold hands with the schizo on the ward romantically, be incredibly inappropriate, and display aggression towards staff.)
> 
> It’s the normal, sad types that don’t make sense to me. Sure, they have no friends, their romantic relationships suck, and their self esteem is low - but their behavior is overwhelmingly typical in most situations and contexts.
> 
> ...


I find there's a pretty easy way to distinguish between a "true" Cluster B personality and a person who is dysfunctional primarily from complex trauma. A borderline will exhibit antisocial behavior with absolutely everybody. Somebody with CPTSD will act in ways typical of Cluster Bs only when their historical traumas are triggered, usually from a real Narcissist or Borderline.

The APA appears to have no use for the CPTSD label, but the WHO has put it in the ICD-11. So I think you're quite right about the coming surge in BPD diagnoses, at least in the united states. We'll see a lot of BPD diagnoses for people who don't actually live their entire lives as an unstable false self and therefore don't really quality.

Here's an interesting story about a marriage to a woman who fits the Borderline criteria:





Most people's "crazy exes" aren't actually like this. They aren't literal prostitutes who lie about everything they possibly can. They're usually people who act like you might expect of a person who legitimately feels betrayed and abandoned by a loved one: traumatized.



Dyn said:


> I don't know what you softboys are crying about, bpd thots make the best partners.


Actual borderlines act an awful lot like malignant narcissists. They don't make great partners for anything, really. Now, sensitive people who exhibit some erratic behaviors from trauma can make great partners if they're in a stable situation.

Quora is chock full of information and hot takes on personality disorders. Psychologist and author Elinor Greenberg has written about them extensively both there and elsewhere.


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## Donker (Apr 24, 2022)

> also believe that current times have exacerbated the conditions under which the disorder festers and grows.


This is something I've been thinking as well a lot recently.
When I was back in my home country, very rich, never went through austerity, very stable, everyone is pretty wealthy. I met maybe 1 or 2 BPD people. I met plenty of Bipolar people, but Cluster Bs, maybe 1 or 2 thinking back on it, and they were mild cases at best. Their biggest issue was more that they were erratic and perpetual dramacows rather than being extremely toxic.

Moved countries, to here, decades of Austerity here, it's extremely expensive to live here, everyone is struggling, everything is run down, 2 generations have largely grown up entirely under Austerity and holy shit, the amount of machiavellian, backstabbing _nutcase _Cluster Bs I've met here is almost more than I can count. I think they honestly sniff me the fuck out because I'm very community-minded, like talking to randoms in parks, doing community charity work etc and they see a fucking mark. I've had to wisen up a lot since moving here because honestly, thanks to Cluster Bs manipulators, scammers, schemers who pretended to be friends, I've probably lost 20k-ish in the past 2 years and I'm now in an extremely frankly, dangerous, precarious position living in a house with a fucking narcissistic BPD control freak.

My theory is that Austerity here has led to much more mental health insanity among Gen Z and Y than appeared back in my rich ass home country. If I didn't have obligations here, I would be on the first plane back lol.


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## Osmosis Jones (Apr 25, 2022)

Donker said:


> This is something I've been thinking as well a lot recently.
> When I was back in my home country, very rich, never went through austerity, very stable, everyone is pretty wealthy. I met maybe 1 or 2 BPD people. I met plenty of Bipolar people, but Cluster Bs, maybe 1 or 2 thinking back on it, and they were mild cases at best. Their biggest issue was more that they were erratic and perpetual dramacows rather than being extremely toxic.
> 
> Moved countries, to here, decades of Austerity here, it's extremely expensive to live here, everyone is struggling, everything is run down, 2 generations have largely grown up entirely under Austerity and holy shit, the amount of machiavellian, backstabbing _nutcase _Cluster Bs I've met here is almost more than I can count. I think they honestly sniff me the fuck out because I'm very community-minded, like talking to randoms in parks, doing community charity work etc and they see a fucking mark. I've had to wisen up a lot since moving here because honestly, thanks to Cluster Bs manipulators, scammers, schemers who pretended to be friends, I've probably lost 20k-ish in the past 2 years and I'm now in an extremely frankly, dangerous, precarious position living in a house with a fucking narcissistic BPD control freak.
> ...


A lot of people who suffer from Cluster B literally can't form healthy or meaningful relationships. If you've run into Borderlines that tend to flake or move in and out of your life seemingly at random or at their convenience, it may not occur to them why this can be offensive or uncouth. When your entire childhood is spent with malformed or unhealthy relationships, you never quite learn how to connect with people. Just as you can't make someone who is illiterate read by showing them a book, you cannot teach someone who is borderline to love/have relationships (platonic or otherwise) by showing them love in kind. This is a hallmark factor in Cluster B Disorders and you'll find this issue across the board in all levels of severity. Some are just hopelessly lonely as a result, and some will fully take advantage of others with intent, but it's important to remember that this, at its core, is simply the way a Borderline sufferer's mind works. 

BPD sufferers are insanely difficult to have to live with. They are just as likely to dish out the abuse as they are to claim to be victim to it and often end up in mutually abusive relationships. The mind of a BPD sufferer is in constant emotional turmoil when not treated and every event is met with reactive or explosive emotional responses, making it challenging or impossible to have constructive conversations about anything. One minute something is acceptable, the next moment it's evil. They say something is okay, and next thing you know they're making offhand comments about how stupid it is. You can never quite pin them down. The trouble is they can't pin themselves down either, and they're tailspinning just as much as they're trying to gaslight you with their comments.


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## Larry David's Crypto Fund (May 18, 2022)

The reason you're seeing so much of borderline-type behavior is because of broken homes and broken society. It all starts with a chaotic or insecure attachment type as an infant. Being dumped in shitty daycare from 6 weeks of age is a great set up to allow that to happen. There are also certain inborn personality types that are going to take worse to being dumped in a shitty daycare no matter what the rest of their home life is like. It's going to damage them. Career whamehns don't like hearing that but it's a very obvious truth. Sure there are plenty of kids who do wall to wall daycare and turn out fine. And there are kids raised by a SAHM who turn out miserable and shitty. But overall, close bonding with one, consistent nurturing caregiver is how humans were built to be raised. And if you deviate from that norm, you're playing with psychiatric fire.

Then every single other thing about clown world just makes it worse. The anomie and alienation. The "identity" obsessing. The forcing of sexuality on young kids. It's like they're trying to create borderlines.


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## Sailor Kim Jong Moon (May 18, 2022)

Larry David's Opera Cape said:


> The reason you're seeing so much of borderline-type behavior is because of broken homes and broken society. It all starts with a chaotic or insecure attachment type as an infant. Being dumped in shitty daycare from 6 weeks of age is a great set up to allow that to happen. There are also certain inborn personality types that are going to take worse to being dumped in a shitty daycare no matter what the rest of their home life is like. It's going to damage them. Career whamehns don't like hearing that but it's a very obvious truth. Sure there are plenty of kids who do wall to wall daycare and turn out fine. And there are kids raised by a SAHM who turn out miserable and shitty. But overall, close bonding with one, consistent nurturing caregiver is how humans were built to be raised. And if you deviate from that norm, you're playing with psychiatric fire.
> 
> Then every single other thing about clown world just makes it worse. The anomie and alienation. The "identity" obsessing. The forcing of sexuality on young kids. It's like they're trying to create borderlines.


Great insight regarding daycare. I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, high cost of living & depressed wages means most women have little to no choice

All the working moms I’ve met feel incredibly shitty about using daycare and would rather be at home. Very, very few prefer to send their infant to daycare - that I’ve met IRL


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## Larry David's Crypto Fund (May 18, 2022)

Sailor Kim Jong Moon said:


> Great insight regarding daycare. I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, high cost of living & depressed wages means most women have little to no choice
> 
> All the working moms I’ve met feel incredibly shitty about using daycare and would rather be at home. Very, very few prefer to send their infant to daycare - that I’ve met IRL


It may have reached that point now. It certainly was NOT at that point in 1978, or 1991, or even 2002. But training women to put corporate wage slavery at the core of their self-worth sure helped the elites create a world where most people can't get off the crazy ride even if they want to.


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## Speakeasy Electric (May 19, 2022)

Is Borderline Personality the only personality disorder that (tends to) get better with age?


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## Osmosis Jones (Jun 17, 2022)

Speakeasy Electric said:


> Is Borderline Personality the only personality disorder that (tends to) get better with age?


I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it gets better with age. Maybe the outbursts reduce and masking gets better but the underlying condition generally stays the same or worsens if not treated. A hormonal teenager showing traits of Cluster B will naturally be far more outrageous than your typical teenager, and as with all teenagers, emotions and hormones settle in early adulthood. This could be viewed as an improvement, but only in the sense that the person has matured and grown beyond emotional fits. The real troubles with BPD is the formation of healthy relationships (or at times any relationships), black-and-white views, emotions over rationality, and emotional management.  I can say with certainty that untreated BPD worsens with age/time. The habits become more engrained and unbreakable; habits like manipulation, leveraging emotions, and constant catastrophization. 

The underlying factor in all Cluster B Personalities is a lack of 'ego' or personal identity and a need to fill that void with something. I find Borderline to be the most difficult of all because they place all of their personal value on external factors outside of their control. If you never learn to build that sense of self and create a life that is healthy for your mind, you will continue to spiral out of control thinking that everything you're doing is just typical human behavior. 

This also makes a good point for my theory that Cluster B is the main issue plaguing youth today. It is widely known that many mental health disorders have a genetic or hereditary factor but more and more there is acceptance that this is only a piece of the puzzle, and perhaps a very small one at that. Environmental factors play a massive role in mental wellbeing and development. The way society has let the internet influence youth is how we've ended up with so many people with zero sense of identity in the real world.


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## Otterly (Jun 17, 2022)

beansntoast said:


> I've read that BPD is basically the same as CPTSD (complex post traumatic stress disorder), because the symptoms overlap heavily, the only difference is in in the cause:
> when the pychiatrist/psychologists can't make out a trauma that causes this damage the patient gets diagnosed with BPD
> when there is trauma in the patient's history, they get diagnosed with (C)PTSD
> 
> ...





AnOminous said:


> I've never known anyone with that diagnosis.  The only people I've ever seen claiming to have it are self-diagnosed tumblrinas who got sprayed with a squirt gun or someone disagreed with them on Twitter.


cPTSD is real, but it’s also used as a placeholder. Real cPTSD is stuff like children who have been abused for years, people living in war zones getting shelled for years, etc. becasue BPD has such a stigma attached to it and BPDd are prone to flouncing, some therapists use it as a diagnosis to bill and treat to keep someone in treatment. It’s also trendy to label yourself with. See: well, half the cows. 


Daughter of Cernunnos said:


> I thought it could be cured with DBT.


It can be greatly improved by it. I’m not sure it can be cured 


Kornula said:


> I still do not get why the DSRM uses "borderline"  personality disorder..when it's clearly not at the borderline..or near it. They totally ignore most borders and boundaries.


It’s becasue it was seen in the borderline of psychosis and neurosis - in the Freudian sense of the definitions I think? 


Larry David's Opera Cape said:


> The reason you're seeing so much of borderline-type behavior is because of broken homes and broken society. It all starts with a chaotic or insecure attachment type as an infant. Being dumped in shitty daycare from 6 weeks of age


I agree with this and it’s something I’ve thought for a long time. A six week old baby is utterly dependent on you and gets very distressed when separated from the mother.  Early daycare is traumatising children and leading to big societal problems. 


Speakeasy Electric said:


> Is Borderline Personality the only personality disorder that (tends to) get better with age?


I think many do. People mellow and learn coping strategies (some of them anyway.) schizophrenia can also improve with age  (obv not a personality disorder.) 
   BPDs can be a nightmare, as can narcs. My first encounter with real narc/BPD pairs was at a job I had in the 2000s. I had to work with this woman who literally tried to take my personality, while trying to run me down at every opportunity. It was bizarre. She claimed to speak a language I do (she doesn’t.) she claimed to have the same qualifications as me. She’d wear the same clothes, then her orbiter would try to attack and get me into trouble with management. It was extremely peculiar and made me very stressed at work - I left the workplace _*and she followed me. *_She then spent the next five years (I moved towns) trying to sneak into my life in various ways. It was really awful. 
   Kudos to anyone who has it, has insight and does the DBT work to treat it.


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## Clown Balls (Jun 17, 2022)

I reject the idea of "personality disorders" as medical illnesses. They are simply bad attitudes and bad behaviors people ended up with from either shitty childhoods or things like surviving in an unstable country etc. But they aren't diseases. They are feelings and actions that people can and do choose to change.

I have about as much respect for psychology in general as I do for Scientology.


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## K-Hole (Jun 17, 2022)

Otterly said:


> cPTSD is real, but it’s also used as a placeholder. Real cPTSD is stuff like children who have been abused for years, people living in war zones getting shelled for years, etc. becasue BPD has such a stigma attached to it and BPDd are prone to flouncing, some therapists use it as a diagnosis to bill and treat to keep someone in treatment. It’s also trendy to label yourself with. See: well, half the cows.
> 
> It can be greatly improved by it. I’m not sure it can be cured
> 
> ...




_cPTSD is real, but it’s also used as a placeholder. Real cPTSD is stuff like children who have been abused for years, people living in war zones getting shelled for years, etc. becasue BPD has such a stigma attached to it and BPDd are prone to flouncing, some therapists use it as a diagnosis to bill and treat to keep someone in treatment. It’s also trendy to label yourself with. See: well, half the cows._

Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is very real. It's also very very distinct from BPD. It's just that to a lazy or to a time-stressed Psych trying to figure a person out, it can get misdiagnosed. People who have PTSD usually have one or more short sharp events where they nearly die, or they see someone else die, perhaps both. Someone might get it from being in a car accident, someone else might get it from witnessing a car accident. Rape victims who are threatened with death so as they comply can get it, thinking they are about to be murdered.

People with Complex PTSD are hostage victims. Children that suffer low level abuse from an early age, probably better called 'neglect'. But then again 'neglected' children can often be well dressed, well fed, well spoken. The abuse is psychological, emotional. Very often when you deal with people who have been raped or beaten to a pulp, and people who have been emotionally or psychologically abused, those that have been emotionally/psych abused will say they wish the assaults were physical or even sexual, as that would denote a marker/boundary. There is no such marker with emotional/psych abuse. This is why they are so head-fucked, because they have been headfucked. A scar is proof of abuse taking place. A rape is proof of abuse taking place. Always being put down, always being told you will amount to nothing - well - there is no marker for that. Each incident is innocent enough. This is not to take away from the evil that physical abuse/rape presents.

Both CPTSD and BPD are distinct categories (even if one has not been taken up yet by the DSM/IV or the ICD). And CPTSD and PTSD are very distinct from each other as well. If you know what you're talking about. 

Remember, the map is not the territory. How many people can define what HPD is compared to BPD. Yes, they are both Cluster B, what makes one so, and the other, not so? And why is even ASPD defined as a Cluster B as well? Mmmm good question.


The fact is we are all grasping at straws. The map is not the territory. Psych shit is not a hard science. But it's surprising how well it does. There are certain fractures common to the human brain/consciousness. And when they do break, they tend to break along certain points. They tend to break along certain stress points that we all have. Then again, we are all different. 

Should Pyschiatry and Psychoanalyis be abandoned as a bad job? Hell no! It's all we've got. As imperfect a metric as it provides. The problem is knowing when contributors to these metrics act in bad faith. Many governments do. See the dissidents in the Russia of old, locked up for 'impure thoughts' just because they disagreed with the state taking everything they had and murdering their family. You'd probably have 'impure thoughts' about that too. Who will be the arbiter of the mind. 

Who will watch the watchers?

*Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*

Just because you have a lot of cop-outs from society self-diagnosing, and getting that diagnoses confused, does not mean that a diagnosis is not available. Hell, even fucking autism is fashionable once or twice a year, then falls out of fashion, then it's something else. 

On top of that you do have a lot of misdiagnoses, and yes, some malicious from professional practioners. Therapist abuse is a big thing. But most of it is over-stretched practioners and ill-informed and 'not-quite-ready-yet' psychologists/psychiatrists. Not everyone can be R.D. Laing. Not everyone can be Murray Bowen. 

Keep in mind that the fields of Psychiatry and Psychoanalysis and Psychology are all discrete and distinct enterprises. Couple that with the fact, that just like a Professor in the USA is very different to a Professor in the UK, well, a Psychiatrist in the States is very different to a Psychiatrist in Bongland.


Witnessing death or facing death, tends to give people PTSD. 

Being kidnapped, or abused consistently for decades (sometimes in to late adulthood) by family members, tends to give people CPTSD. 

Being abused in another very specific way from childhood, tends to give you BPD/EUPD. 


But it's how you turn out as an adult at the end of it, and present your fuckups to the wider world that really matters. Yes there are overlaps, but not really if you take the time to diagnose. Those with CPTSD are far more withdrawn and will have different comorbidities compared to someone with BPD, who will tend to be more aggressive and outgoing and conniving. Bi-Polar is not unheard of with those with BPD. And that complicates things by an order of magnititude again.

The map is not the territory.

It's almost impossible to say. Every unique individual provides a unique case to be studied. We can do nothing more than compare notes, and be compassionate. One thing these people all have is a history of trauma. Yes, BPD people tend to be more unpleasant (usually women, men get diagnosed less with this). They often are abusive towards their psychs: I DON'T FUCKING LIKE YOU. That sets the tone for the session doesn't it?

To be clear. I am not a professional. Just a layman. So _cum grano salis._

I have one girl in my therapy group I've done a lot of work with. And she hates being labeled a 'Borderline'. She prefers EUPD (Emotionally Unstable). And when we talked about the possible misdiagnosis of her condition, she said that she thought she really had CPTSD. It's a less offensive label. It offers up more support and more understanding and sympathy. BPD's are known for being manipulative fuckers. But CPTSD's are just 'misunderstood'. Everyone prefers being 'misunderstood' to just being called out for what they are: manipulative and abusive fuckers. See Amber fucking Turd. Thank fuck I'm not a professional.


The field of psychology/psychiatry/psychoanalysis runs deep and wide and muddy and murky. 

There are great truths that can be learned from Freud, and especially Jung. But you need to know when to chuck the baby out with the bathwater. Because even though they got some things very very right. They got even more things very very wrong. 

It's very difficult for Cluster B's to get meaningful treatment, because they never seek it, they always avoid it. And when they do get it, it's 90 percent of the time because they have got in trouble with the law, or have been forced in to it by a spouse. Cluster B's never see anything wrong with their _Weltanschauung, _their world view. It is always someone else's fault. In that regard, the BPD or NPD who provokes a partner to violence so they get locked up, has much in common with an ASPD (AntiSocial Personality Disorder), who sees their victims very much as 'victims' - deserving of their fate because they were either too weak or too dumb to see what was happening to them. It's a lack of empathy at a core level, that is shocking to those of us who can feel emotions, both in ourselves and for others in our care.

Personality disorders are personality disorders because they present not just a serious problem for the individual involved (who has the PD) but for those in their immediate environment/family. And by extension, they provide a greater problem for people in their community and wider society as a whole. If you believe the figures, something like 80 percent of ALL people in prison are Cluster B!

Then again, those with serious Cluster A personality disorders such as Schizoid PD, well, they never commit crimes. They never cheat people. They are always honest. They never make promises they won't keep. They keep themselves clean and tidy and their environment too. They tend to work jobs where they can indulge in their needed behaviour for seclusion and isolation (say Lighthouse keeper or Drone bomber in a bunker in Bumfuckistan). They are even warm to their very closest siblings and family members. But more than that? They want fuck all to do with humanity. At all. And who can blame them. Should they be labeled as having 'Personality Disorders' when they do not wreak havoc on society the way that Cluster B ASPD's do? 


People with CPTSD are closer to those in the Cluster C group of disorders - Obsessive, avoidant, dependant. 

People with BPD are closer to the histrionic and anti social and narcissistic types. That is why they are Cluster B.

People with PTSD do not have a personality disorder. They have a 'condition'. It was not put upon them from childhood, and they are generally not a threat to others. They tend to be much more disorganised as well. As are CPTSD.

Those with Cluster B PD's tend to be a lot more focused and organised and cognizant and manipulative. But even within these sub-groups there are sub-types. You can have a grand and malignant narcissist. Or you can have an inverse or covert narcissist. 

The map is not the territory. 

No one in the history of the human race has ever come close to figuring out the clusterfuck of the human mind. This is why we will never have AI in our lifetime. All we can do is compare notes. If we can admit our defeat in the face of such overwhelming odds, then mabye, just maybe, we can make a start to getting some real work done on how we need to start caring for each other, healing each other, and hopefully making this world a better place to live in. For future generations onward...

This is the Captain of The Starship Enterprise...

...logging the fuck out before they lock me up for another night!

(nurse really shouldn't have shared that wireless key)


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## Hotdogonaplate (Aug 18, 2022)

Zebedee said:


> I can relate, been on a ward enough times to see this happen, BPD peeps also tend to get a little follower where they can find one, usually the timid type of person with depression or social anxiety. Easy to exploit I suppose.


I hope this isn't too much of a PL, but I will admit that in my teen years I was this little follower to multiple borderlines. I don't really know why. I was always socially anxious and a literal autist, and these types would be the first to approach and befriend me, and by the time the abuse started I was already in too deep and was too horrible at standing up for myself. I think autists like me are an easy mark for borderlines, something I don't see talked about too much. We are easy to manipulate, even if we are of the high-functioning variety, mask well, and don't publicly voice that we are autistic.

I stay on high guard now and have learned to spot the symptoms of a borderline very early on. The classic, untreated ones tend to have this dark aura about them, like a seething tar pool of anger and resentment and jealousy, bubbling away just underneath the surface. Know the signs, especially if you have any sort of mental issue yourself that causes passivity or a high level of trust of others.


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