# Lack of self improvement in people.



## ZeCommissar (Jun 27, 2019)

Alright so one thing that kinda bugs me is that they are many many people in the world and society at large that just don't do anything to improve themselves in any way, shape, or form at all.  Honestly just click on the Lolcows subforum and you already get all the examples you ever need, but i'm going to give a few anyway. 

The fat acceptance movement is a pretty prominent one. While shaming people so harshly that they literally become anorexic isn't the way to go, but just letting 300 pound Jane do nothing all day because people are "healthy at any size" is perhaps even worse. Now Jane thinks she's the one that's in the right with staying fat, the doctors that warn her are just being bigots, and now Jane just gained 50 more pounds and died of a heart attack a few years later. 

Incels are yet another example of this. "Chad is literally living life on easy mode. If I just had a few millimeters of bone in my Jaw I too could live a perfect life. What's the point of anything now?" 

There are also those that just stay on welfare for years using other peoples money instead of being on their own two feet with a stable job, house, and employment. I do not believe welfare in itself is a bad thing, but people that game the system do exist. Most of us also know plenty of people who have been stuck in a "rut" in life for the past.......few decades that they don't try to get out of. 

To be honest these extreme examples aren't the only ones. More minor examples do exist like everyone on this planet including you and me. Everyone has something they want to improve but don't for some reason or another. Maybe you are procrastinating, maybe you have low self-esteem and don't think it will work. We all have something we want but just don't have. 

Why? If you know what you want, and the steps you probably need to take to get started then what's stopping you? What about the more extreme examples listed above? Is it something more natural like instant gratification at work, or something more sinister like the way our society is run?


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## Rand /pol/ (Jun 27, 2019)

'cause self improvement is for gays and I like sleeping in and not having a job.


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## Bugs_Galore (Jun 27, 2019)

Because self-improvement requires you to look in the mirror and admit you have flaws, and that those flaws are nobodies fault except your own. That's no easy task, especially when those faults are deeply ingrained in your behaviors and actions. It is infinitely easier both physically and mentally to cast blame for your problems onto someone or something else.

Are you fat? Well, it's not YOUR fault you eat like shit, it's societies fault for not loving your big beautiful body!

Do you have acne? Why waste time buying expensive creams and taking the time out of your day to develop a regimen to cure your acne when you could blame women for not liking your disgusting greasy face!

Did you flunk out of college? Don't worry, you're not dumb. The institution is just bigoted and racist!

You can play the game a million different ways. But at the end of the day, the simple fact is that casting blame onto others is always easier than taking personal responsibility for your faults.


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## Classist. (Jun 27, 2019)

Well I think that most of the issues you just listed are coping mechanisms or self justifications. It's really sad to see someone, especially a friend or family member, succumb to whatever mental or physical issues they have instead of trying to overcome them. I sometimes think that the defining characteristic of  a Lolcow is in the delusional way that they react to the realities of their lives, instead of confronting them or even slowly chipping away at them. I don't think that it's 100% the individuals fault, I've seen first hand that parents/role models/friends/culture can have a dramatic effect on whether someone seeks help or decends deeper into the pit of autistic despair and delusion.


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## Red Hood (Jun 27, 2019)

The funny thing is, self improvement feels fantastic. Noticing newly developed and toned muscle? Being able to paint a nice landscape, or play a song on the guitar that you couldn't play before? Accomplishment feels great. You're setting yourself up for a bland life if you never make an improvement. And I'm not saying with any of those examples you need to become a legendary athlete or painter or musician- just do it for yourself, to give yourself something to be proud of. 

Part of the problem is the insane "it's everyone's fault but mine" mentality. It's like drowning yourself just because no one is jumping in to save you.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 27, 2019)

Self-improvement is hard and often involves out of the box thinking you might not get from anybody. Plus, being a loser and going up from there is hard even without the internet. Most of the people you meet will be utterly dismissive of you, the ones you want to keep talking with never stay and for when you're dragging yourself through muck in an attempt but not really advancing, the failure sticks with you in your mind and theirs forever. Hell, most people dont even know why they should bother. Society is a barely improvised crapshoot, the funniest communities are constantly shuffling (military, LEO, trades, government, big cities, etc.) the bread and butter ones are usually just bread and butter and your family is likely a den of resentment. You could say for your sake but as much as like myself the guy can last without dealing with too much so why bother?


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## Clop (Jun 27, 2019)

It's not just people who need to admit they have faults, it's the people who see nothing but fault in themselves. You get a dad who hits you and a mom who calls you a tard and you just so happen to get also teachers who call you a satanist for listening to music to ease the pain for five minutes, and you've got yourself a kid who's set up to think for life that everyone hates them and if you just die in a hole somewhere bothering nobody it'll be worth the money to everyone.


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## Marissa Moira (Jun 27, 2019)

Clop said:


> It's not just people who need to admit they have faults, it's the people who see nothing but fault in themselves. You get a dad who hits you and a mom who calls you a tard and you just so happen to get also teachers who call you a satanist for listening to music to ease the pain for five minutes, and you've got yourself a kid who's set up to think for life that everyone hates them and if you just die in a hole somewhere bothering nobody it'll be worth the money to everyone.


Have you seen the rent prices for holes recently?

They're through the roof, fucking boomers bought them all for an investment.


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## Clop (Jun 27, 2019)

Marissa Moira said:


> Have you seen the rent prices for holes recently?
> 
> They're through the roof, fucking boomers bought them all for an investment.


Nonsense. What kind of a hole has a roof? The US must be made of money.


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## Marissa Moira (Jun 27, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Self-improvement is hard and often involves out of the box thinking you might not get from anybody. Plus, being a loser and going up from there is hard even without the internet. Most of the people you meet will be utterly dismissive of you, the ones you want to keep talking with never stay and for when you're dragging yourself through muck in an attempt but not really advancing, the failure sticks with you in your mind and theirs forever. Hell, most people dont even know why they should bother. Society is a barely improvised crapshoot, the funniest communities are constantly shuffling (military, LEO, trades, government, big cities, etc.) the bread and butter ones are usually just bread and butter and your family is likely a den of resentment. You could say for your sake but as much as like myself the guy can last without dealing with too much so why bother?


There's a specific mentality you need to have in order to function as a loner, but it basically boils down to you can hate yourself all you want but you must never give up.


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## Sīn the Moon Daddy (Jun 27, 2019)

Marissa Moira said:


> There's a specific mentality you need to have in order to function as a loner, but it basically boils down to you can hate yourself all you want but you must never give up.


Very well said. I'm a big fan of yours.


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## NN 401 (Jun 27, 2019)

Many people get very comfortable with their misery.
Just ask beaten house wives/husbands.

The problem is that self improvement is a grind and most people aren’t taught how to deal with failure and be persistent in the face of it.

Here’s another factoid sometimes improving your situation and making a real change to your life can make things _worse _in the short term. People anticipate this subconsciously.

Confronted your abusive parents who beat you every night?

Great! But now they kicked you out of the house and you have to go live in a group home until you can find your own place. 

Oh and they threw away all your stuff. Emptied your bank account etc.

In hindsight enduring extreme discomfort to end up in better situation is totally worth it.


However...At the time all this shit is happening you literally have no idea how it’s going to work out.

So... laziness combined with fear.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 27, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> Many people get very comfortable with their misery.
> Just ask beaten house wives/husbands.
> 
> The problem is that self improvement is a grind and most people aren’t taught how to deal with failure and be persistent in the face of it.
> ...


Even then, society has a literal reset button for you: military and buttbusting for a bullshit work job with a trade opportunity might honestly be waiting around the corner. Lie about your autism and asthma and the military will basically drag you into a job slot to recoup the investment. Bitch work in a warehouse can lead to you becoming a mechanic and if you have the smarts AND work ethic (very important you have both) a free ride can get you cloistered in an ivory tower or bitching over the first two options.


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## Vorhtbame (Jun 27, 2019)

On the whole, it's because people who naturally take a long view of time, and the potential impacts of their decisions over the long term, are an extreme minority.  Most have to be taught, by direct teaching or by screwing up.

*For example*: Investing thirty minutes a day, most days, into exercise is thirty minutes you can't play Candy Crush or watch Game of Porns or gossip.  _But_ it means your active time is more energetic and productive, your active time is longer (because you sleep more deeply, your body becomes more efficient at repair, less repair to be done, etc.), and the number of years you'll be energetic and productive increases.

But people don't think that far out, and they don't think in terms of nuance; they just tend to think "Oh, I _should_ exercise because 'it's good for me'.  But...no, I already work _so hard_ and I'm just stressed out, and eating a pound of chocolate while I watch Game of Porns makes me feel immediately better, so I'm going for that."

If you can't convince someone that there will be lasting consequences, much less that they should be concerned about those consequences, then they will do what they naturally do.  And most people are averse to change anyway, which is a _whole_ 'nother can of worms.


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## Piss Clam (Jun 27, 2019)

> Do you have acne? Why waste time buying expensive creams and taking the time out of your day to develop a regimen to cure your acne when you could blame women for not liking your disgusting greasy face!



This bothers me. Just go to a dermatologist. They will prescribe medications that will actually help you instead of the over the counter crap.

When I was a teenager I was subscribed accutane. Cleared the shit up in a few weeks and lasts your lifetime.









						Isotretinoin - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## NN 401 (Jun 27, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Even then, society has a literal reset button for you: military and buttbusting for a bullshit work job with a trade opportunity might honestly be waiting around the corner. Lie about your autism and asthma and the military will basically drag you into a job slot to recoup the investment. Bitch work in a warehouse can lead to you becoming a mechanic and if you have the smarts AND work ethic (very important you have both) a free ride can get you cloistered in an ivory tower or bitching over the first two options.




You are not wrong.

I was speaking more to a mindset or learned helplessness.

On a subconscious level you have to want to get better more than you want things to stay the same



Also, recognizing that you suck at something and having to give authority over to an institution like the military means having a level of self assessment most people haven’t been inculcated with.

There’s also ignorance.
There are people drowning in student loan debt right now who don’t know that enlisting in the military can drop a fat ass signing bonus in your lap. 20k to 30k.

Bye bye student loans.

All they’ve ever heard are condescending screeds from Hollywood about ptsd and killing brown people.

Their peers and parents are ignorant and discourage them.


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## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 27, 2019)

It's going to vary wildly from person to person, but I'm sure it's very easy for some to resign themselves to mediocrity or worse if they're surrounded by people who have already done so.  Breaking out of that becomes even harder when all those peers go crabs-in-a-bucket on anyone who attempts to improve in ways the peers disapprove of.  Misery loves company.


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## SmileyTimeDayCare (Jun 27, 2019)

There are a lot of right answers in here but I'm going to throw out another one and that is that people are conditioned to be complacent when it comes to personal growth.

You are taught to excel in school, land that dream job or at least one that gives you some money, healthcare, and a 401k/pension and you're all set. Buy that new car, buy another house, buy that new phone--that's your improvement! You don't need to better yourself.


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## ProgKing of the North (Jun 27, 2019)

Besides the level of comfortably complacency there can be in misery, truly depressed people honestly sometimes feel like it’s never gonna get any better anyway so expending the effort is just a waste of time. It can be hard to shake that mindset.


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## Gordon Cole (Jun 27, 2019)

As people in this thread have said before, Step 1 is acknowledging your own flaws which is already uncomfortable at best and all but impossible at worst for many people. Secondly, people are more willing to live in their own mediocre bubbles rather than enjoy life and try new things, which the enduring popularity of Marvel movies and Applebee's can attest to.

Coming from my own personal experience, looking at the cows here who ree at even mild criticism and blew it at life (Dobson, Spoony, etc.) spurred some change in me in a cautionary, "Oh shit, I don't wanna be that guy" kind of way. But for normies who don't frequent neo-nazi harassment doxing stalker cyberbowling fourms and/or don't have a personal trainwreck, the change usually has to come from within, which again, is much more difficult.


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## Vampirella (Jun 27, 2019)

I remember growing up us kids got bombarded with commercials, and people coming to our schools to talk to us about how much we rule. You're the future, you can be what ever you want to be if you try, KIDS RULE, silly adults don't get us. Really all those commercials were made to sell toys and junk food but kids don't know that. I really wonder if see and hearing that every day affected people. You get told you're going to get the world, and when you get there it's not the best thing. There's a lot of things you're not told about or how to deal with like bills, budgets, taxes, getting your own place, getting a car, ect. It can feel very over whelming because we're not prepared.

I see a big divide in old friends I had as a kid. There are those that all whine about how much better it was when we were kids, and those that just go on with life. I see so many post of "I wish I could go back and watch cartoons on Saturday morning eating cereal." No, you can eat cereal and watch cartoons right now, what you miss is not having to worry about everything. 

And I know it's hard. I know it can feel like an up hill battle with a big rock strapped to your back. I've been there, I've let the rock crush me more times then I like. But you have to look at yourself and fix whats wrong. I've had people say How do you do it, and I say I don't know I just make myself. But they get mad and this new thing I here is "Don't tell depressed people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we just can't!" And I say You can, I can. There are days I don't want to get out of bed, but I do. Not for the kids, or my husband, or the pets, but for me. Because if I make my reason to get out of bed someone else and something happens to them, that rock is going to crush me again.

Now instead of seeing YOU RULE and YOU CAN DO ANYTHING, all the memes are lol depressed, lol give up, lol suicide. And boy have I seen people get mad when you tell them these kind of  memes suck, just look at Reddit and Imgur. Maybe I'm just a rebel at heart, but I feel like I have to spit in the face of depressed memes. Fuck I'm rambling and not making sense again.


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## DoofComoose (Jun 27, 2019)

Bugs_Galore said:


> Because self-improvement requires you to look in the mirror and admit you have flaws, and that *those flaws are nobodies fault except your own*. That's no easy task, especially when those faults are deeply ingrained in your behaviors and actions. It is infinitely easier both physically and mentally to cast blame for your problems onto someone or something else.
> 
> Are you fat? Well, it's not YOUR fault you eat like shit, it's societies fault for not loving your big beautiful body!
> 
> ...


In bold is where I always have problem with that kind of talk. It's like the transexuals who become transexuals as kids just because their parents find it a good idea to do that before they mature and are able to make decisions for themselves. Or the parents who feed their kids shit, or the parents who don't control their kids. Those kids also end up suffering as adults. Your problems do NOT have to be your fault, *but nonetheless you can't depend on anyone but yourself* to fix those problems whether you're the cause or someone else is.


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## Violence Jack (Jun 27, 2019)

I think people are just afraid of being happy.

Mediocrity is safe you know what the grind brings. Just enough comfort, maybe a girlfriend to sex act you once a week. Carve out a comfy niche for yourself and live within the boundaries that everyone else does. Look at them. They're happy, aren't they? Why is generalized dread a la mode? Are people afraid to look inside themselves? Or has society deemed that you aren't happy until you have the new car, the new fucking patio furniture you don't need, or the new steam cleaner that'll really impress the guys at the office? A sliding scale with no upper limit.

Open your insight a bit. See what you're afraid of when you close your eyes. It's that stillness. The lack of anything else. Stuck with yourself. Deny yourself and maybe it'll stop. Buy the car and maybe it'll stop. Buy the hooker and maybe it'll stop.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 27, 2019)

Nekromantik2 said:


> And I know it's hard. I know it can feel like an up hill battle with a big rock strapped to your back. I've been there, I've let the rock crush me more times then I like. But you have to look at yourself and fix whats wrong. I've had people say How do you do it, and I say I don't know I just make myself. But they get mad and this new thing I here is "Don't tell depressed people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we just can't!" And I say You can, I can. There are days I don't want to get out of bed, but I do. Not for the kids, or my husband, or the pets, but for me. Because if I make my reason to get out of bed someone else and something happens to them, that rock is going to crush me again.


You may not know it, but this is very motivational. I've known too many times how hard it is to keep moving forward with the horrible and unending sadness gnawing at the back of your mind. It was like that for a long time and i was very hard pressed to find a motive on why i kept going forward aside from "Bad things will happen to me". But i finally made it and left it behind for good, even if it comes back up, i'm far better now than i was a couple of years ago and the solution was easy: get away from my family. And i can't stress how great i feel now even if i'm not 100% good. In retrospective, the bad moments make this quite better IMO.

As you say, never do something for someone else, do it for yourself. Because if you fail, you will feel worse than ever and many will crumble under that terrible weight. If you need motivation think that life is just a one way trip and you can never stop to smell the roses. Never lose heart and never look back, because there is only one way and you will have to take it. As for self improvement, i will say that many times in my life i wished i could have been a much worse person than i am. Why? I always saw myself as a monster and i though that everything in me had to hit rock bottom to truly reflect how i am. I finally found some guidance on self improvement because you have to give the best of yourself both to others and to you. But you always gotta remember improvement is a hard way with great results. Be ready to do some sacrifices and to find yourself sad or pathetic. But be steady and don't give up. Perseverance is something inmensely valuable.

I gotta say i never expected to find so much positivity here compared to the unending tirades of depression and bitternes i found in social media while i had it. I gotta thank you because even if it's not much, it's still something very valuable.


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## From The Uncanny Valley (Jun 27, 2019)

I'm happy with being horrible because I'm horrible at being happy


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## Vampirella (Jun 27, 2019)

Malagor the dank omen said:


> I gotta say i never expected to find so much positivity here compared to the unending tirades of depression and bitternes i found in social media while i had it. I gotta thank you because even if it's not much, it's still something very valuable.


That depression and bitterness shit on social media is all crabs in a bucket. It's one thing to have a dark sense of humor (I totally get that given Mr. Nekro's and my line of work), but it's another thing to just constantly post, "Guess I'll just die", and "LOL I'm dead inside" memes over and over. That shit isn't healthy, and it's not healthy to get pissed at people that are happy for the crime of being happy. "You can't be happy about something because others are sad" is a stupid way to live. You can't set the bar of what is "happy", you can only set the bar of what makes you happy, and don't you dare let others influence you on where that bar should be. 

When I say pull yourself up by your bootstraps it's not the same as get over it. Some one once told me I'm aggressively happy when I want to be. It's out of spite, to spite depression, and anyone that make it their sole defining trait. I left that shit back in high school when I was a moody little goth.


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## QI 541 (Jun 27, 2019)

Because trying and failing repeatedly hurts more than never trying.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 27, 2019)

Nekromantik2 said:


> It's one thing to have a dark sense of humor (I totally get that given Mr. Nekro's and my line of work), but it's another thing to just constantly post, "Guess I'll just die", and "LOL I'm dead inside" memes over and over. That shit isn't healthy, and it's not healthy to get pissed at people that are happy for the crime of being happy


I get what you mean, but what i'm telling is totally different. For me it wasn't about depressed memes or all that shit, because i have a pretty dark sense of humor too. For me it was constantly having politics shoved in my face, news about whatever catastrophe happened, nuclear takes everywhere and nobody pointing and laughing at the idiot... But one thing that truly got me down were artists. I constantly saw their amazing works and how far they got and how i will never get there not only because inspiration and will to produce something like that is fickle, but also because of my own thoughts of inadequacy. Nothing is good enough for me and if it's not good enough for me, it's not good enough for anyone. I went down that alleway and the things i did stayed with me. I'm not capable of improving without criticism and getting pointers on how to make my stuff better, and it hurts quite a lot in the long run because i'm stuck in square 1 all the time.

Also, good to know you became big tiddy goth gf.


raymond said:


> Because trying and failing repeatedly hurts more than never trying.


Very true, but without failing we would never to learn and improve. As much as joy is a part of life, so it is suffering. And as much as we might suffer, do it for something that matters.


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## Vampirella (Jun 27, 2019)

Malagor the dank omen said:


> Nothing is good enough for me and if it's not good enough for me, it's not good enough for anyone. I went down that alleway and the things i did stayed with me. I'm not capable of improving without criticism and getting pointers on how to make my stuff better, and it hurts quite a lot in the long run because i'm stuck in square 1 all the time.


I totally understand how hard that is, putting stuff out there is scary. Will everyone hate it, will they just ignore it, if they say it's nice are they lying? At least that's what I worry about. It's also hard to find real criticism that isn't just "That sucks" or "That's the best", it kind of makes you feel like what's the point. Again, that's how I've felt about it. That's why I love the Farms though. You have people here that are more then happy to help you get better.

And the media doesn't help, or politics and the pressure of picking a side. You did good though, sometimes you need to cut off the bad stuff in your life to get better and focus on you. And I hope you keep getting better.


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## Red Hood (Jun 27, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> You are not wrong.
> 
> I was speaking more to a mindset or learned helplessness.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that the military is selective and probably doesn't want a bunch of whiny headcases that can't do a push up. 

A friend was a recruiter for the Navy and what he told me is tons of people show up looking for that as an easy way out of loan debt but are rejected on health grounds, physical or mental. There are a lot of instant rejection conditions as I understand it.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 27, 2019)

The Shadow said:


> Keep in mind that the military is selective and probably doesn't want a bunch of whiny headcases that can't do a push up.
> 
> A friend was a recruiter for the Navy and what he told me is tons of people show up looking for that as an easy way out of loan debt but are rejected on health grounds, physical or mental. There are a lot of instant rejection conditions as I understand it.


Keyword there is lie. Get a high enough ASVAB, don't blab too much and don't fuck everyone over too much and you could literally get dragged through the pipeline.


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## Red Hood (Jun 27, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Keyword there is lie. Get a high enough ASVAB, don't blab too much and don't fuck everyone over too much and you could literally get dragged through the pipeline.


Fooling a recruiter is one thing, getting past MEPS and finishing basic is another.


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## Vampirella (Jun 27, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Keyword there is lie. Get a high enough ASVAB, don't blab too much and don't fuck everyone over too much and you could literally get dragged through the pipeline.


That's how we get ex marines that troon out in diapers.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 27, 2019)

The Shadow said:


> Fooling a recruiter is one thing, getting past MEPS and finishing basic is another.


Not just recruiting. People generally feel sorry for you more than resent you. If you're an idiot you might even delude yourself into believing you deserve it. If not, you start to understand your faults and maybe your better angels but now were getting derailed. The point is there are numerous options in life and my main sticking point is many people dont really want to for a plethora of reasons, one key thing being that you just might be fine with contentment over anything else, especially if you develop genuine humility.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 27, 2019)

Nekromantik2 said:


> I totally understand how hard that is, putting stuff out there is scary. Will everyone hate it, will they just ignore it, if they say it's nice are they lying? At least that's what I worry about. It's also hard to find real criticism that isn't just "That sucks" or "That's the best", it kind of makes you feel like what's the point. Again, that's how I've felt about it. That's why I love the Farms though. You have people here that are more then happy to help you get better.
> 
> And the media doesn't help, or politics and the pressure of picking a side. You did good though, sometimes you need to cut off the bad stuff in your life to get better and focus on you. And I hope you keep getting better.


Yeah, i made the right decision deleting everything a couple of years ago. Since then, i'm honestly in a much better mood. That paired up with something else and finding a job finally made me realize that i could still do some things, even if it wasn't much, to finally do something i like. I felt truthfully happy since a very long time and i even started exercising, which improved my mood even more.

Of course i go back to being negative from time to time and i can't avoid it. Some days the fall is harder than others but i know i have to push through no matter what. That's how life is and as much as any doesn't want to acknowledge it, sometimes we have to do things out of pure necessity. I'm still alone for the most part, but i've already made peace with the fact that i will be until the very end. And there is also the problem with everything i do not being good enough. 

It's almost as you say: i don't care if people hate what i do or tell me it's a pile of garbage because i already expect it. The truth is that many people have told me my stuff is ok and even pretty good, but i always have the suspicion that they tell me that out of pity more tha anything, which in the end makes me trust them even less. And even when i ask "what's good" or "what's bad" they sometimes cannot elaborate much on it, which makes me think they didn't even read what i make and i start to think if it would be better if i knew how to draw in order to make a comic, but it would be a fruitless endeavor since i tried drawing a long time ago and i wasn't cut for it as much as i tried.

Overall, i know i might have potential and many other things, no matter how meagre they are. But will i be able to bring it out? Will i be able to stay on track? Will i be capable of doing something worthy? Even at my age i have lots of doubts and i got plenty to find out. But will i be able to? That's what scares me. That i will not be able to bring out my potential to do something i love and that makes me happy, even if i gain nothing from it aside from my own satisfaction.


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## Duncan Hills Coffee (Jun 28, 2019)

The Shadow said:


> Keep in mind that the military is selective and probably doesn't want a bunch of whiny headcases that can't do a push up.
> 
> A friend was a recruiter for the Navy and what he told me is tons of people show up looking for that as an easy way out of loan debt but are rejected on health grounds, physical or mental. There are a lot of instant rejection conditions as I understand it.


I recall reading a story about some guy in high school being approached by a recruiter but was ultimately rejected because he was pre-diabetic. Not even full-blown and if I remember right not something he has anymore, but it was still grounds to prevent his entry.


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## NN 401 (Jun 28, 2019)

Baldur's Gait said:


> I recall reading a story about some guy in high school being approached by a recruiter but was ultimately rejected because he was pre-diabetic. Not even full-blown and if I remember right not something he has anymore, but it was still grounds to prevent his entry.




Waiver waiver waiver.

Almost anything can be waivered.


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## Caesare (Jun 28, 2019)

Violence Jack said:


> or the new steam cleaner that'll really impress the guys at the office?



Idk but I doubt the guys down at the office are using new vacuum cleaners to become the envy of their coworkers.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 28, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> one key thing being that you just might be fine with contentment over anything else, especially if you develop genuine humility.


I will tell ya that genuine humility is a double edge sword that can be terrible. On one part, you will be content with many things, no matter how small, it's yours. You have your small yet good place to live, you job that pays the bills and keeps you fed and your small social group. You don't need anything else as long as you have that. And as long as you have it, you're happy.

But you will also lack ambition in order to move higher. You will see more successful people and think you're not cut for it. You will see happy couples and year for a better half yet at the same time tell yourself you're good as you are. You will resent yourself for not pushing you to reach higher and that will slowly make you think some times that there is something wrong with you.

I don't want to go full powerlevel on this, but it's something a bit personal for me. All i gotta say, like everyhting else in this life, it's not absolute good. Be humble at your own risk.


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## nonvir_1984 (Jun 29, 2019)

'Cause they do not want to kill someone they (secretly) love.


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## Sīn the Moon Daddy (Jun 29, 2019)

nonvir_1984 said:


> 'Cause they do not want to kill someone they (secretly) love.


Nah she's legitimately disgusting. I don't know what I ever saw in that little Sea Mexican.


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## Stock Image Photographer (Jun 29, 2019)

I think the two types of people who avoid self-improvement are those who have convinced themselves that their flaws are actually positive traits, and people who believe that they cannot improve their circumstances. The former is usually narcissistic in some fashion, believing that they don't have flaws and that, since they're the best, the conditions they live in must already be the best. The latter generally has a lot of learned helplessness. They are aware that they have flaws and that their situation could be better, but they don't believe they have the power or agency to do anything about it because they don't feel like they have any power at all. Success is a positive feedback loop, and if you've never felt it, or it's been a very long time since you've succeeded in something, you might believe that you can no longer succeed at anything.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 29, 2019)

Stock Image Photographer said:


> The latter generally has a lot of learned helplessness. They are aware that they have flaws and that their situation could be better, but they don't believe they have the power or agency to do anything about it because they don't feel like they have any power at all


Not only that, but some of us believe there is nothing to improve to begin with. We think we are defective, that there is something inheritly wrong with us and therefore we think we cannot get out of our holes and get better.

You have a point too when it comes to the sucess, since if you never felt it you believe that you are a permanent failure. And some even go as far as accepting their place as failures because, after all, life is a game and there have to be losers and winners. And some have to be losers.


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## Stock Image Photographer (Jun 29, 2019)

Malagor the dank omen said:


> You have a point too when it comes to the success, since if you never felt it you believe that you are a permanent failure. And some even go as far as accepting their place as failures because, after all, life is a game and there have to be losers and winners. And some have to be losers.


To add on to that, something I often see when people who aren't familiar with success try to get into that positive feedback loop is that they either start way too ambitious or not ambitious enough. If the first goal you want to accomplish is to make a statue on par with the works of Michelangelo, then of course you're going to look at yourself as a failure because that's going to take decades. On the other hand, people who set their goals as something too easy won't feel a sense of satisfaction when they've completed the goal because they know there was no actual challenge involved. Alternatively, even if they pick a goal that is appropriately challenging for their level, they might think, "Only a loser would get excited about completing something so small, therefore I'm a loser." I still struggle with the last one; anytime I do something that I was initially really excited about accomplishing my mind immediately tries to twist it into something like, "Since you were able to do it, that means anyone could have done it, so you shouldn't be proud of yourself." I've since mostly learned how to consciously rebut those automatic thoughts, but they still creep in.


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## KiwiKritter (Jun 29, 2019)

Because many people resist the idea of change, they don’t want to leave their comfort zone. Saying one doesn’t need to change makes someone feel better about their own life choices and makes them feel more secure (ex. Obese people crying “fatphobia!!”)


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## Violence Jack (Jun 29, 2019)

Coleman Francis said:


> Idk but I doubt the guys down at the office are using new vacuum cleaners to become the envy of their coworkers.


lol turns out i meant a garment steamer for your shirts, but that's about as banal as the intent was.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 30, 2019)

TBH, I never felt that great about succeeding in the first place. I'm a laid back, content anc humble guy and I generally end up despised by or despising the opposite especially when I try to ape that act. Sure, it feels good when I make it, if I make it but then that high isnt strong enough for me to justify striving for it and falling down is always painful. I feel better just drinking caffeine and listening to music.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 30, 2019)

Stock Image Photographer said:


> To add on to that, something I often see when people who aren't familiar with success try to get into that positive feedback loop is that they either start way too ambitious or not ambitious enough. If the first goal you want to accomplish is to make a statue on par with the works of Michelangelo, then of course you're going to look at yourself as a failure because that's going to take decades. On the other hand, people who set their goals as something too easy won't feel a sense of satisfaction when they've completed the goal because they know there was no actual challenge involved. Alternatively, even if they pick a goal that is appropriately challenging for their level, they might think, "Only a loser would get excited about completing something so small, therefore I'm a loser." I still struggle with the last one; anytime I do something that I was initially really excited about accomplishing my mind immediately tries to twist it into something like, "Since you were able to do it, that means anyone could have done it, so you shouldn't be proud of yourself." I've since mostly learned how to consciously rebut those automatic thoughts, but they still creep in.


I feel ya on that. A lot of people start aiming too high and when they fail it aggravates their feeling of failure. It's something that happens way to often these days when a lot of people think that everything must be perfect on the first try and they must have a natural talent for whatever thing they want to do. Talent is a small part that will get you ahead faster, because you will pick up things much quicker than others. It's with experience that you truly improve, but it takes time and a lot of work to get there. Plus, failing you learn much important lessons than doing good, since you will learn how to not do it. You have to make the best out of every experience and learn from them.


Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> TBH, I never felt that great about succeeding in the first place. I'm a laid back, content anc humble guy and I generally end up despised by or despising the opposite especially when I try to ape that act. Sure, it feels good when I make it, if I make it but then that high isnt strong enough for me to justify striving for it and falling down is always painful. I feel better just drinking caffeine and listening to music.


I know that too well, bud. For me it's not that the high of sucess is not good, it's more like a "If it's not broken, don't try to fix it". I'm very happy as i am with my small things, so why would i aim higher where i would live with constant stress and worry? For me this is something a bit personal, but i don't want to go full powerlevel on this. The thing is that i'm not afraid of falling because i already know how it is. I am happy with what i have now and even if i plan on getting something else, it won't be much more than what i have now.
As i always say, my happiness has no price and i don't want to exchange it for anything.


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## Lemmingwise (Jun 30, 2019)

Stock Image Photographer said:


> Only a loser would get excited about completing something so small, therefore I'm a loser.



That's the sad thing about life though.

It's true that nobody knows what you (or anyone) is capable of before they try. The tragedy is that it could also mean that it is less than what everybody expected.


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## UW 411 (Jun 30, 2019)

An unhealthy mix of being comfortably stagnant, avoiding responsibility and not wanting to face up to flaws and shortcomings.

It is easier to pretend that everything is 'fine' in an insular bubble than to admit that you might need to improve certain aspects of your life and general behaviour.

Nobody's perfect but those that consider themselves to be are usually lacking those all important elements of self-reflection and humility.


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## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 30, 2019)

Malagor the dank omen said:


> I will tell ya that genuine humility is a double edge sword that can be terrible. On one part, you will be content with many things, no matter how small, it's yours. You have your small yet good place to live, you job that pays the bills and keeps you fed and your small social group. You don't need anything else as long as you have that. And as long as you have it, you're happy.
> 
> But you will also lack ambition in order to move higher. You will see more successful people and think you're not cut for it. You will see happy couples and year for a better half yet at the same time tell yourself you're good as you are. You will resent yourself for not pushing you to reach higher and that will slowly make you think some times that there is something wrong with you.
> 
> I don't want to go full powerlevel on this, but it's something a bit personal for me. All i gotta say, like everyhting else in this life, it's not absolute good. Be humble at your own risk.


Everything in moderation.  Humility and ambition are both nice to have, but right tool for right situation.  Know your limits, but don't be afraid to push envelopes a bit just so you know EXACTLY where those limits are.

Honestly, my biggest obstacle to self-improvement has been the fact that I can be discouraged surprisingly easily.  I'll usually still come back to it after a bit, because I'm also ridiculously persistent about things I care about, but the initial "fuck this, I can't do this" moment still causes a bit of a hangup/delay on progress.


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## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Jun 30, 2019)

The value of that the society has placed on self improvement has changed from a perspective of life long gradual character improvement to an overnight success story. I don't know why the self help movements grew out of this perspective, but they do not reflect the actual psychology of lifelong overall median happiness. 

So here is a point of interest. That in our current society, barring the very poorest and least intelligent, a comfortable standard of living is possible. 

What I mean by comfort is, the ability to have shelter, food availability, and general entertainment, have been so secure now in the west for the last three to four generations, that overabundance has become an issue.  

The issues with this, aside from the health implications that it has led to, IE over weight populations, lack of daily exercise. Has been a glut of mental health issues that have manifested themselves in the population over a period of time. So much so that in the 1960's the average median age for someone who was likely to suffer depression, to have a first major depressive episode was 28, now it's 14 on average. 

Part of this is down to the fact that I feel people aren't challenged enough in their daily lives. (Day to day existence, barring horribly abusive situations, is a fairly easy process) And we as a society do not encourage failure as a learning mechanism. Rather people practice avoidance, because if they aren't actually challenging themselves and learning through the process of failure and assimilation, then they aren't having to face the psychological trap that fear of failure causes for them. They won't have to admit to it. 

Now what if you come from a horrible situation. Does that change things? Yes, and no. Yes in the fact that people who have to live under adversity usually learn skills of adaptation or avoidance. Those who have well established and concordant goals will usually be able to pull through the most traumatic of situations, because they aren't defined by that trauma, rather their self concordant goals. Also in some cases, the early adversity is a benefit, to the person involved because it motivates them to work harder in their goals. 

There are as many stories of successful people, as there are failures. The difference is that people remember those who were successful. How many stories have you ever seen where the individual came from a deprived background to become a millionaire, or had some other life challenge to overcome. In most cases, they did so because failure meant that they lost nothing except for the investment of time. 

Now the other issue that we run into as a society is that we do not value the process. Rather the results. 
You can find this endlessly. A new diet is marketed on the results. Not the process. 
Same with a lot of self help literature that exists out there. They are usually focused on quick fix, the fix your life in 30 days, rather than the process of working through actual self improvement. 

And the problem is, people aren't very smart. Your brain does not distinguish very well, between the actual deed, and the feeling of the deed. Which is why a lot of people will talk about the areas that they need to improve. They will read the literature. They will start the diet. But they won't carry it through and start implementing the changes required to see marked life improvements. 

Part of this is the happiness delusion. Happiness doesn't exist. It's a chemical reaction in the brain that is usually done through a reflective period, to associate periods of excitement and pleasure from a past memorable experience. You win the lottery, within 9 months you will be back to your base level of perceived happiness.  

Now that said, we owe it to ourselves to pursue what is describe as overall life quality, or long term happiness. Which is something that is gradient, and must be cultivated over a long period of time, through making concordant successful choices that add to overall life success and satisfaction. This over an applied period of time raises the base level, and allows the individual to withstand set backs better. 

TLDR; People want it now, and don't want to work for it. Most of their misery is their own making as a result.


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## Positron (Jun 30, 2019)

Bad parenting.  Why improve if daddy (fuck him!) and mommy provide all that you need?
And society ought to cater to me like dad and mom!  This is my fucking HUMAN RIGHTS!


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## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 30, 2019)

Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> TLDR; People want it now, and don't want to work for it. Most of their misery is their own making as a result.


In life, for most misfortunes that happen we can only blame ourselves for our choices and deeds. But only we can overcome them and make them right. And like you say, people care more about results than the process when the process is the most important thing when you do something.


Positron said:


> Bad parenting.  Why improve if daddy (fuck him!) and mommy provide all that you need?
> And society ought to cater to me like dad and mom!  This is my fucking HUMAN RIGHTS!


This is something that truly irks me from today's society: barely anybody wants to stand up for themselves and be independent when it's one fo the greatest things you can achieve. Sure, you can leech off mommy and daddy until their money dries up and you're forced to work flipping burgers. Oh, but that work is beneath you so you will not do it even if your life depended on you, that's why you cry to daddy state for handouts.


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## Positron (Jun 30, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> many people don't really want to for a plethora of reasons, one key thing being that you just might be fine with contentment over anything else, especially if you develop genuine humility.





Malagor the dank omen said:


> I will tell ya that genuine humility is a double edge sword that can be terrible...you will also lack ambition in order to move higher. You will see more successful people and think you're not cut for it.



The key word is _genuine_ humility and contentment, to be absolutely happy for your lot in life, not a mere suppression of desire.  Many people on one side say they're perfectly happy with what they have and claim there is no point striving for more, but on the other they shoot eye-daggers over someone's cars, wealth, etc, or demands that society give them more free stuff.  This is not genuine humility; it is an excuse for laziness.


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## AF 802 (Jul 2, 2019)

Positron said:


> Bad parenting.  Why improve if daddy (fuck him!) and mommy provide all that you need?
> And society ought to cater to me like dad and mom!  This is my fucking HUMAN RIGHTS!



Why improve when mommy and daddy won't have a threesome with you and be your fucktoys


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