# Why do peeps want socialism/communism?



## The Pink Panther (Aug 23, 2020)

I see so many peeps on social media sites or whatever, young and ignorant calling themselves unironic communists or whatnot or even socialist. I even have friends who call themselves Marxist-Leninists or Anarcho-communists. Do they not realize that communist systems don't work in practice over the dozens of countries that have tried it and thus through trying failed? Why are they so deluded as to think that it'll actually work one day?


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## A Cardboard Box (Aug 23, 2020)

They're fucking miserable losers and will amount to nothing if it isn't literally given to them for free at the expense of others.


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## Aidan (Aug 23, 2020)

I think it's a combination of many things but primarily, it's trendy. You will not be destroyed online in most places for praising communism and since it's also "cool" it's free upvotes/likes/dopamine-icon.
If you ask them what communism is they will probably tell you it's equality for all, free healthcare, free education, public transportation, a fair government, and then some. ALL positive traits. Ask them to name one problem with communism or whatever flavor they've decided to champion and they won't be able to.

They don't look into history nor do they care what you have to say. When they say communism is cool they get dopamine-icons and that's that.


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## AirdropShitposts (Aug 23, 2020)

> Why are they so deluded as to think that it'll actually work one day?


Because Marx promised.


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## TraumaTeam2020 (Aug 23, 2020)

I think the KGB defective Yuri Bezmenov talked about 'useful idiots' and how they become said 'useful idiots'. I'm not too sure, thought I do know that communism seems cool and radical, as it is seen the enemy of big bad america. Or something I'm not a histologist.


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## JamusActimus (Aug 23, 2020)

A healthy dose of socialism can make the general living conditions of peoples way better.


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## Aidan (Aug 23, 2020)

TraumaTeam2020 said:


> I think the KGB defective Yuri Bezmenov talked about 'useful idiots' and how they become said 'useful idiots'. I'm not too sure, thought I do know that communism seems cool and radical, as it is seen the enemy of big bad america. Or something I'm not a histologist.


It's really nuts how people think it's counter-culture to be commies or better yet "socialists" in today's America. You have the public support of many elites, political and otherwise, and companies will pretend to agree. Academia will give you tons of resources to help spread the good word and those who are against you are silenced and demeaned at every turn.

What gets me is how all of the elites are so invested in stepping towards communism.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Aug 23, 2020)

They want control.


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## A Cardboard Box (Aug 23, 2020)

REGENDarySumanai said:


> They want control.


The Jews ready have control. Reminder 60% of the original Pulitburo were Jews.


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## JEB! (Aug 23, 2020)

Why wouldn't you want communism? Everything is free and everyone is gay.

At least that's what someone on twitter told me


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## Sothis (Aug 23, 2020)

Because they want everything for free and don't want to work


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## Jimmy Durante's Ballsack (Aug 23, 2020)

REGENDarySumanai said:


> They want control.


To expand on this a bit, several of the young people I know that consider themselves Communists are also coming from wealthy families with parents that spoiled them and more or less gave them everything they wanted. They expect to get what they want with minimal effort and expect to be treated like royalty. I'm not about to say they are bad people, they're just very confused about how the world works. And some of them have severe self-esteem issues and are probably trying to make up for some perceived sin they have committed.

Many of them are definitely narcissists, hence the feeling that they could solve all of these problems if only they were given complete control.


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## SugarSnot (Aug 23, 2020)

They have convinced themselves that they are restoring fairness to society because the income and wealth disparity between the richest and the poorest is so vast that it is impossible to conceptualize. Now. There are obvious problems that arise from this imbalance of resources and it makes many people ripe for abuse. That's why, if you are short sighted, the obvious thing to do is to just take from the ones that have the most and redistribute their wealth to the poorest ones among us. They want an easy solution to a very complex problem.


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## Pickle Inspector (Aug 23, 2020)

Aidan said:


> What gets me is how all of the elites are so invested in stepping towards communism.


It seems to be more globalism and hyper-consumerism.

Like the corperations don't want open borders because they are pro equality, they just want cheap labour.


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## Aidan (Aug 23, 2020)

Pickle Inspector said:


> It seems to be more globalism and hyper-consumerism.


Yeah I guess I should say why they pretend to support it. "Globalism" is probably the most succinct answer, though it opens up more questions. My guess is they're told what opinions to have publicly.


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## Hypnopedosnake2 (Aug 23, 2020)

Most of these people have nothing that they're good at, so they think they get shit for free from a communist goverment. But a communist goverment actually wants to use everyone as labour, no matter how pointless or unfullfilling that labour is supposed to be.

That's why east germany had almost no unemployment, but was constantly bleeding money.


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## JohnLenin (Aug 23, 2020)

Tbh? Autism.
But seriously they buy into most ideologies 100% when it's socially acceptable in their circles or social media+enablers/yesman. They really think communism means little to no labor because it's a community effort or some gay shit. Mfs who make posts like this are always the mfs expecting to ride off of other people's labor when and if these "communities" ever form despite how much they preach about equality they don't give or have anything of value, just take what others have built upon for themselves. And yes of course they're mostly Americans <3.






Spoiler: Bonus: Sanriocore <3


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## Aidan (Aug 23, 2020)

LordOfTheBleach said:


> Tbh? Autism.
> But seriously they buy into most ideologies 100% when it's socially acceptable in their circles or social media+enablers/yesman. They really think communism means little to no labor because it's a community effort or some gay shit. Mfs who make posts like this are always the mfs expecting to ride off of other people's labor when and if these "communities" ever form despite how much they preach about equality they don't give or have anything of value, just take what others have built upon for themselves. And yes of course they're mostly Americans <3.
> View attachment 1541221
> 
> ...


Was Drake not good enough? They had to use Geordi out of no where and also make it worse somehow?
However, with Star Trek in mind, I'm surprised it's not referenced more as to how that's what communism/socialism is or something. Everyone gets what they want, they all work jobs they want, human advancement is at unprecedented levels both technologically and culturally.
I guess commies aren't watching Star Trek or something because I could see them referencing it as the go-to fiction instead of Harry Potter if they had a mind to. Granted it wouldn't make sense because Picard speeches aside that isn't even how the Trek universe works, but I can see people arguing it.


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 23, 2020)

Free stuff.


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## JohnLenin (Aug 23, 2020)

Aidan said:


> Was Drake not good enough? They had to use Geordi out of no where and also make it worse somehow?


It's  because he can be considered problematic, he invited a 17 yr old on stage once and kissed her, and the whole being friends with Millie Bobby Brown stuff so that's more than likely why.


Aidan said:


> However, with Star Trek in mind, I'm surprised it's not referenced more as to how that's what communism/socialism is or something. Everyone gets what they want, they all work jobs they want, human advancement is at unprecedented levels both technologically and culturally.
> I guess commies aren't watching Star Trek or something because I could see them referencing it as the go-to fiction instead of Harry Potter if they had a mind to. Granted it wouldn't make sense because Picard speeches aside that isn't even how the Trek universe works, but I can see people arguing it.





Sorry I don't know anything about Star trek so I wouldn't know or if social media communists do enough to argue about it other than it's a quirky reaction image.


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## No Exit (Aug 23, 2020)

Because all they've ever heard of communism is that it sounds perfect. They're just naive, sheltered kids who think the world is black and white and that evil can just be quashed so the real, perfect leader can come in and bring equality. They also seem to think that everyone works equally hard, probably thinking their the epitome of the hard worker getting fucked over by the man.

So basically, they're just sheltered retards who think they know better cause their sheltered retarded friends agree with them.


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## Some JERK (Aug 23, 2020)

Ignorance of the realities of human nature combined with the optimism of a person privileged enough to not have seen much shit go wrong. It leads them to believe in the fairy-tale of a fully equitable society where life can be fair if you just believe hard enough. Their worldview is largely based on what other people tell them rather than direct experience, which is a handy and useful type of person to have around if you're trying to further a goal that won't bear much scrutiny before it's exposed as a terrible plan.


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## Less Nasty Old Person (Aug 23, 2020)

Paraphrasing the great William F. Buckley Jr.



> What would happen if the Communists occupied the Sahara? Answer: Nothing—for 50 years. Then there would be a shortage of sand.



Nowadays Buckley would be considered moderate. Hell, even Barry Goldwater would be barely right of center in today's climate. 

Zoomers want to be rewarded for their bourgeois laziness and think socialism is the answer. They only need to learn about the "Cultural Revolution" in China to see how that went -- an entire generation of intellectual elite "re-educated" and replaced with superstitious thugs. Not to mention the Gulags of Soviet Russia.

"Reeeeee but that's not real communism" they'll say. Well, the commies I hung out with in college said the same thing 50 years ago. With their parents' money, they went to Cuba in the summers to help with the sugar cane harvest. They're all working for the government now btw so I guess college commies actually have a viable career path.


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## Robert James (Aug 23, 2020)

I really want to say it's do to a hatred of mega corporations and a demand for our government to real in the power of Amazon, google, twitter, etc. but to be honest it's free shit and what the media tells them to want. I honestly get your confusion cause 9/10 times the communist larpers are some of the biggest consumers on the planet *cough* movie bob *cough*. It's also confusing cause they'll screech about eating the rich but ignore that their overlords, Bernie no refunds Sanders, are the 1% and the giant corporations that are legally distinct entities. 

I'd blame the education system and the media that have been ragging on America and capatalism for the past 30+ years for making them hate our current system and wanting to look into alternatives. This leads them to listening to rich socialist that make their living off entertainment telling them they will make their living doing whatever they are best at. Since most are too young to develop a skill they think they could be like the people who taught them about socialism and be entertainers. After that they are sold on it, I mean wouldn't you want to live in a society where all you had to do was livestream, write, star in movies, draw and get paid the same amount as a man doing heart surgery.


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## idosometimes (Aug 23, 2020)

Because they are stupid.  They have no idea what socialism is.  They think that it means that life is exactly the same, only they get lots of free stuff.  That is not how it works.  Socialism is "social" control over the economy.  The "workers" (or their much smarter elite representative who assist with actual labor) decide what to make and how much and how it should be exchanged.  The people who support socialism is western countries actually think that eliminating private property will somehow give people more and make stuff more available.

I actually hope that they are able to get it.  They would be poor as heck very soon and the US would have no foreign investment.  The heads of socialist "leaders" would end up on pikes as quality of life declined for everyone.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Aug 23, 2020)

You know how pro-capitalists are accused of thinking of themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires? Well, pro-communists think of themselves as future political commissars, even though they'd actually be working in the shit mines for the rest of their lives.


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## Happopotamus (Aug 23, 2020)

Stability. Guaranteed work. Extremely strong government safety nets meaning if you get supremely fucked in life, you won't die in the streets. Here in the nordics we're halfway there, almost everyone are middle class, government guarantees you (shitty)housing and a livable amount of money so you don't starve, education is free. Homelessness is non-existent.


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## Aidan (Aug 23, 2020)

Happopotamus said:


> Stability. Guaranteed work. Extremely strong government safety nets meaning if you get supremely fucked in life, you won't die in the streets. Here in the nordics we're halfway there, almost everyone are middle class, government guarantees you (shitty)housing and a livable amount of money so you don't starve, education is free. Homelessness is non-existent.


Hard mode is trying it with the US population and systems. 
Admittedly we could also take a severe cut to military budget but that's off the table because uh... reasons.


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## soft kitty (Aug 23, 2020)

Lack of proper education. You needn't look no further than our failed public school systems and our marxist universities as well.


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## Jewthulhu (Aug 23, 2020)

Because "post-scarcity" and "economic equality" sound nice. It doesn't matter that both are impossible, our prophet Marx has seen into the future and says that its totally going to happen.


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## El Sátiro Sordo (Aug 23, 2020)

There is a plethora of reasons, mainly: internet culture is changing.

Remember that the Internet ethos used to be very libertarian. There was this idea that the reason there were so many libertarians was that we internet denizens were better informed and were smarter than the general public. The truth is: it was all demographics. Same reason feminism went from being laughed at ten years ago to now being ubiquitous on the internet.

The Internet used to be inhabited by a very special kind of people (many of them exceptional individuals) that leaned towards libertarianism, atheism and antifeminism. This has changed: social media colonized the bad lands that were the internet, and this means that a sample of all society layers can be regularly found here. The reason communism and marxism were never popular here is that it's exponents in the cyberspace were 18 y/o freshmen, or academics that didn't really engaged in discussions on internet forums.

Since we now have educated people coming from college using the internet, who have  read a whole century of apologists and who are articulated enough to express their ideas and form debate, it's easy to see how young people might see all the far left stuff as the trendy and smart thing to follow.

The disaster that was the Peterson/Zizek debate also helped. That showed everybody that Marx's critics had became too lazy to actually read and understand Marx.

Two main forces dominated the internet in this pasts years (2014-2020). These are: the liberals (your average sjw) and conservative/nazi larpers. A lot of the people in the first group were introduced to anarchocommunism by breadtube, using LGBTQ+ topics in order to lure them in; the second group was castrated by silicon valley and their brand friendly policies. There is definitely a pipeline between  /pol/ and Stalin for that reason, which explains why so many kekistani refugees flocked to bunkerchan.

The last piece of the puzzle is millenial/zoomer education. Millenials and Zoomers have come into contact with activities that used to be dilettante pleasures for the elite, particularly philosophy, and want to live their lives off it instead of having a shitty unfulfilling job.  Having an university degree isn't a privilege anymore, and not having one is a disgrace. What this means is that we have a surplus of people that envisioned their lives as part of the elite, but have to cope with the fact that they will have to spend the rest of their lives working an alienating job. Take that, the current crisis, and you'll see how it is no surprise for communism to become popular.

One last thing: it is true that you can quote multiple times in which socialism/communism/anarchism  failed, but our generation has faith that this time there is a new factor in the equation, and that is the Internet and AI: hence the gag "fully automated luxury communism." This, they believe, makes all past failures irrelevant.

I believe they are too optimistic and that the current crisis will only see capitalism rise stronger than ever with chinese-like regimes becoming the norm in western societies.

TL;DR: normies turned the internet into a college campus.


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## Son of Odin (Aug 23, 2020)

They're right that the working class are treated like garbage by globalist corporate oligarchs, but wrong that it won't be the same thing under a communist or socialist system and that the commissars/politburo won't just be the new oligarchs. They're also wrong that they will be within the politburo and not lowly factory workers under even worse conditions than they were before because communist shitholes like China don't care about the environment or workplace safety.


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## Syaoran Li (Aug 23, 2020)

Aidan said:


> What gets me is how all of the elites are so invested in stepping towards communism.



They're not, the communists are just useful idiots. Twenty years ago, the Religious Right were the useful idiots and the neocon corporate elites still didn't want a theocracy.

As for why so many Millennials and Early Zoomers flocked to communism, it's a mix of college indoctrination, resentment towards the old Religious Right and Bush-era America, and the Great Recession making capitalism be seen as this grand villain in their eyes. 

SJW's are every bit as atheistic as internet libertarians, since nearly all of the communist leaders and thinkers were also militant anti-theists who actively persecuted religious people. Both the SJW's and the Skeptics had their primary roots in the New Atheism movement of the 1990's and 2000's.

Recently, they've also become more far amenable to Wicca and other types of "witchcraft" solely because it's against Christianity and many of them still think it's 2004 and the Religious Right aren't irrelevant and powerless (and because only evil fedora men are atheists)

TLDR-They support communism because they want free shit and they're still pissed at Dad for making them go to church that one time.


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## Pee Wee Herman (Aug 23, 2020)

A Cardboard Box said:


> They're fucking miserable losers and will amount to nothing if it isn't literally given to them for free at the expense of others.


/thread


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Aug 23, 2020)

It depends on if we're talking commies/socialists that are employed, or commies/socialists that aren't employed.

For the commies that aren't employed, it's probably sheer inexperience with the world at large. They've most likely never worked a day in their lives, and just see communism or socialism as "free shit" with no downside. Pretty much everything about these types of commies that can be said has already been said by others in this thread.

Meanwhile, for those in work at least, I'd presume that it's because a lot of them work unfulfilling jobs that lead to them feeling bitter or resentful. Most of them work in service sector positions like retail, leisure and low-level admin, which are notorious for being absolutely terrible positions. And even if they decide to try and make the most of a bad situation and put 110% in, it's rare they'll get a raise or a promotion in these fields, which can naturally feed into a feeling of "why should I bother?". So you can understand why some of these people may begin to despise the current situation, and begin looking at alternatives.

You might say that they should just "get a better job", and if this was 40 years ago, I'd 100% agree with you - but since our corporate overlords decided to ship a metric fuck-ton of skilled labour abroad, what little remains has absurdly high levels of competition compared to the actual skill requirement of the job. Degrees are basically a requirement for most anything that isn't either low-level minimum-wage trash or a trade. I mention trades, as they don't usually require degrees, but are much more fulfilling and offer potential for raises/promotions or self-employment that other non-degree jobs lack, so I felt the need to distinguish them.

I guarantee that very few people working in trades or jobs they enjoy/are passionate about are communists or socialists - I bet you that almost every employed communist works low-level, service-sector trash that they despise.


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## Pentex (Aug 23, 2020)

> I see so many peeps on social media sites or whatever, young and ignorant calling themselves unironic communists or whatnot or even socialist. I even have friends who call themselves Marxist-Leninists or Anarcho-communists. Do they not realize that communist systems don't work in practice over the dozens of countries that have tried it and thus through trying failed? Why are they so deluded as to think that it'll actually work one day?


For the simple reason that they think that they will be the ones running Failed Communist Utopia #500, and they are, to their own thinking, smarter, better, and morally superior to all of those 'failures' who came before them.


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## Hylics (Aug 23, 2020)

They think it sounds fair. They don't realize that "fair" communism is just an oversimplified explanation of communism. Just like "fair" capitalism is an oversimplified explanation of capitalism. Economic systems tend to stratify the populace into the powerful and powerless no matter the name. Someone is always going to get fucked over in some way.


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## Xerxes IX (Aug 23, 2020)

I've noticed they talk a lot about eating the rich but they mostly seem to direct their hate onto two billionaire Acceptable Targets, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk.

This was very noticeable during the [BRAND] supports Black Lives Matter fest where people were going full Soyjak over their favorite vidya game company donating to BLM while (correctly, but they're missing the big picture that all the companies are doing it) denouncing Jeff Bezos as a hollow virtue signaler for donating money because he isn't redistributing his wealth or ending the pandemic/ending police brutality.


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## nekrataal (Aug 23, 2020)

All of them are born in capitalist societies, but familiarity breeds contempt. They’re a collective of useless jealous losers.


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## Mrs Paul (Aug 23, 2020)

I think SOME people (at least younger ones) when they think of "socialism" don't really associate it with communism or Marxism.  They hear the word, and think of it more of like, social security, Medicare/Medicaid, and various government programs to help those in need.  I think that's what people mean by "social democracy/democratic socialism".   They're not actual "socialist-socialists", just ignorant.
OR, it could be just a case of language evolving.  That happens too.  Like the word "liberal", for example.  What people called "liberals" in the past we now call "libertarians".  Maybe that's what it is?  I'm guessing someone who studied linguistics would know better.  

As for those who call themselves communists, they're fucking idiots, plus many of them didn't grow up during the Cold War -- to them it's an event that happened "Ago", and you had the whole Red Scare bullshit, McCarthyism, etc.  Nowadays, most communist countries aren't really the BIG THREAT that the Soviets were.  China's fucked up, but it's not the same. Also, Vietnam had a lot to do with it as well -- let's face it our government DID fuck things up when it come to "fighting communism".  We certainly weren't innocent, at least when it came to foreign policy.  (And this isn't a "liberal vs. conservative", since both sides were doing it)
But for the most part, once again, it's ignorance.  And they haven't actually LIVED in a communist country, or known anyone who has.  

And for those who do know all of this, but still consider themselves socialists and/or communists?  Well, there are neo-Nazis around, what's so weird about neo-commies?   People are assholes.  

(BTW, anyone here actually read Marx?  Dude was a total crackpot, but as one of my professors said, his solution was fucked up, but he did indentify the problem correctly, at least for that particular time period)


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## Thiletonomics (Aug 23, 2020)

Does people wanting those have any thing to do with how charismatic some of those leaders were? As in Castro, Chavez, Mao, Tito, Stalin, the Kims, etc?


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## Sperghetti (Aug 23, 2020)

Obreon said:


> The last piece of the puzzle is millenial/zoomer education. Millenials and Zoomers have come into contact with activities that used to be dilettante pleasures for the elite, particularly philosophy, and want to live their lives off it instead of having a shitty unfulfilling job.  Having an university degree isn't a privilege anymore, and not having one is a disgrace. What this means is that we have a surplus of people that envisioned their lives as part of the elite, but have to cope with the fact that they will have to spend the rest of their lives working an alienating job. Take that, the current crisis, and you'll see how it is no surprise for communism to become popular.



This is my theory exactly.

A lot of people under 40 bought into this idea that if they got a college degree in _anything_, they'd be set for life career-wise, and boring menial jobs were for people who didn't bother with an education. Unfortunately, when they got out in the world, they were confronted with the fact that not only were college degrees nothing special anymore, there weren't really any jobs that would pay a decent wage right off the bat. (Which is what they expected.) Thus, we get a whole bunch of young adults who are over-educated and bitter about the fact that they aren't immediately making an upper-middle-class wage and able to afford a house and regular vacations like they thought they would be.

Instead of thinking about the intricacies of _why_ this was the case (too many people getting degrees, too easy to get college loans, manufacturing jobs being outsourced leaving only service jobs, etc.), a lot of them just decided to blame capitalism in general for the fact that they had to work some boring job they didn't love in order to afford rent and groceries. IMO, the main reason they support socialism and communism is not because they really understand the logistics of either, but because they're _not_ capitalism, which is what they blame for their frustration with their adult lives.

Note how common it is for these people to beg on Patreon and such for money to "support" them drawing, filming themselves, or pursuing other artistic endeavors. They don't do this stuff simply because they love it, nor are most of them attempting to build a portfolio or gain recognition to get a real job. They just believe that other people ought to give them money so they can spend their time doing a hobby, because that was their initial life plan all along.


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## Idiotron (Aug 23, 2020)

That depends on what socialist ideas they support.
For example, when people say that they're Christians, they usually don't mean that they condone the parts when Jesus tells slaves how to behave themselves in relation to their masters.

Think about this:
Public roads are socialist. The government takes money fro all of us and then redistributes it in the form of roads which we can all use for free.
Imagine if corporations owned the roads and you had to buy monthly passes to use them, different passes for different roads owned by different companies. It would be a nightmare, no working class person could afford them.
Public roads need to be a thing for a modern society to function.
Tax funded police and firefighters are also socialist.

You need to ask further questions when someone say that they're socialist.


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## Mrs Paul (Aug 23, 2020)

Thiletonomics said:


> Does people wanting those have any thing to do with how charismatic some of those leaders were? As in Castro, Chavez, Mao, Tito, Stalin, the Kims, etc?



That's true with any totalitarian system, left or right.


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## El Sátiro Sordo (Aug 23, 2020)

Mrs Paul said:


> That's true with any totalitarian system, left or right.


Yep. South America is a good example. If you study the history of this place it will become obvious that ideology never mattered.


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## Hellbound Hellhound (Aug 23, 2020)

Asking why people support socialism is a bit like asking why people in past centuries went searching for the Fountain of Youth. The answer is very straightforward: the idea that workers should own the means of production is clearly an attractive idea, just as never aging is an attractive idea. That past attempts to reach such goals have failed doesn't make the goals themselves any less attractive.


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## Aidan (Aug 24, 2020)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> Asking why people support socialism is a bit like asking why people in past centuries went searching for the Fountain of Youth. The answer is very straightforward: the idea that workers should own the means of production is clearly an attractive idea, just as never aging is an attractive idea. That past attempts to reach such goals have failed doesn't make the goals themselves any less attractive.


Do you think back in the day people were meeting up in an actual forum and asking why peeps actually search for a fountain of youth?


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## queerape (Aug 24, 2020)

Wealth inequality is an actual problem that keeps people from progressing in life so they become frustrated. There are ways to balance things out to give Joe Q Public a chance at a decent life with livable wages that aren’t full on communism though. The US did just fine with it for most of the 20th century.


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## c-no (Aug 24, 2020)

Mrs Paul said:


> I think SOME people (at least younger ones) when they think of "socialism" don't really associate it with communism or Marxism.  They hear the word, and think of it more of like, social security, Medicare/Medicaid, and various government programs to help those in need.  I think that's what people mean by "social democracy/democratic socialism".   They're not actual "socialist-socialists", just ignorant.
> OR, it could be just a case of language evolving.  That happens too.  Like the word "liberal", for example.  What people called "liberals" in the past we now call "libertarians".  Maybe that's what it is?  I'm guessing someone who studied linguistics would know better.
> 
> As for those who call themselves communists, they're fucking idiots, plus many of them didn't grow up during the Cold War -- to them it's an event that happened "Ago", and you had the whole Red Scare bullshit, McCarthyism, etc.  Nowadays, most communist countries aren't really the BIG THREAT that the Soviets were.  China's fucked up, but it's not the same. Also, Vietnam had a lot to do with it as well -- let's face it our government DID fuck things up when it come to "fighting communism".  We certainly weren't innocent, at least when it came to foreign policy.  (And this isn't a "liberal vs. conservative", since both sides were doing it)
> ...


I had to read Marx as an entire subject for a whole semester to graduate. I can't even say much about him other than I could get what his beef was back then because of how Bongland was and how we didn't have shit like workers comp and OSHA compliances and the like for workers. That said aside from reading the Manifesto, everything else felt like a slog like other books because I just wanted to get to the point. I can only imagine that he'd be spinning in his grave simply in seeing what his ideology managed to evolve into and with seeing how it all played out, down to tankies thinking the USSR did no wrong and anything the USSR did is either justified or a complete gay op from the CIA.


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## Hellbound Hellhound (Aug 24, 2020)

Aidan said:


> Do you think back in the day people were meeting up in an actual forum and asking why peeps actually search for a fountain of youth?


I don't know, but the point here is that the goal of finding a Fountain of Youth was clearly very attractive to the people who pursued it, which is why they did, no matter how many times prior attempts had failed, nor how unrealistic it may seem in retrospect. Apply the same logic to socialism, and you will understand why the idea is still compelling to a lot of people.


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## BOONES (Aug 24, 2020)

They don't, they're brainwashed. They're puppets of the common regime. Or "Useful Idiots" as Yuri Bezminov calls them.


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## Emperor Julian (Aug 24, 2020)

Self congratulatory circle jerking aside. The current system is reliant on being barely tolerable to just enough people as to not degenerate into a total shit show as the only other economic model which isnt total gibberish in town it's the logical go to when you notice how bad things are. Maybe it's a statement about our limitations as a species that we can't do better than this nightmare.


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## Tismguide (Aug 24, 2020)

K. V. Bones said:


> They don't, they're brainwashed. They're puppets of the common regime. Or "Useful Idiots" as Yuri Bezminov calls them.


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## Iwasamwillbe (Aug 29, 2020)

Idiotron said:


> That depends on what socialist ideas they support.
> For example, when people say that they're Christians, they usually don't mean that they condone the parts when Jesus tells slaves how to behave themselves in relation to their masters.
> 
> Think about this:
> ...


"Socialism" isn't the same as "taxes for public things". It's primarily about wealth redistribution from the _bourgeois_ to the _proletariat_.


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## Gorefield (Aug 29, 2020)

Obreon said:


> Yep. South America is a good example. If you study the history of this place it will become obvious that ideology never mattered.



Juan Domingo Peron is the best example of this.


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## Made In China (Aug 30, 2020)

Because American capitalists are absolutely retarded and borderline anarcho-capitalists and one of Newton's laws states that for every force there's an equal and opposite force.


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## Syaoran Li (Aug 30, 2020)

Made In China said:


> Because American capitalists are absolutely retarded and borderline anarcho-capitalists and one of Newton's laws states that for every force there's an equal and opposite force.



The only people more retarded than American capitalists are Chinese communists, and the only ones who are more retarded than either one of them are Americans who simp for China and wish they were ChiComs.

Keep fellating the People's Republic of China all you want, but you'll still be up against the wall if your dream of a Chinese communist takeover comes true. Maybe you can be executed on the same wall as Bob Chipman and Jason Unruhe


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## MAPK phosphatase (Aug 30, 2020)

A lot of people, including people in this thread, seem to misunderstand what socialism and communism is, as well as the philosophy of Marx that informed those systems.
The core of Marx's ideas is the dialectic. This is an extension of Hegel's Dialectics, in what I find to be an honestly pretty strange direction. To over-simplify, this an interpretation of the world through the lens of conflict between two opposed groups. For Marx those two opposed groups are the bourgeois, wealthy oppressors with the power, and the proletariat, poor oppressed without the power. The bourgeois create a world in which the proletariat are ignorant to their suffering. The proletariat don't actually know how bad they have it and must be woken up, or will eventually wake up on their own when it gets bad enough. This awakening leads the world "naturally" into socialism and then communism.
Social programs and safety nets like welfare and universal healthcare _are not socialism or communism_. They only serve to keep the proletariat ignorant to their suffering because it never gets so bad that they are forced to wake up and violently revolt against the bourgeois. Of course you have to remember that so long as capitalism exists, the proletariat exists and is suffering, no matter how much they think they are not. Actual socialism and communism is where the workers own the means of production and private property is abolished.

If you want to be caught up with the modern developments of the Marxian Dialectic, just draw the lines racially as well as economically. If you've been paying attention you should know where in this model to put white people and where to put black people.



Happopotamus said:


> Stability. Guaranteed work. Extremely strong government safety nets meaning if you get supremely fucked in life, you won't die in the streets. Here in the nordics we're halfway there, almost everyone are middle class, government guarantees you (shitty)housing and a livable amount of money so you don't starve, education is free. Homelessness is non-existent.


Nordic countries are
1.) Ethnically and culturally homogeneous. This results in a high-trust society where people are much less likely to take advantage of the system. Multiculturalism leads to a malaise that prevents high-trust communities from forming as easily.
2.) Free from the burden of a lot of military spending because the U.S. exists.
3.) Not socialist or communist. They run on The Nordic Model which is free market capitalism with a bunch of social programs and safety nets. The workers do not own the means of production. Private property still exists.

Education isn't free. Things paid for with taxes are only free if you never do anything that creates taxable economic value.


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## Made In China (Aug 30, 2020)

It probably doesn't help that a lot of these people had to work in customer-facing jobs after the 2008 recession, where they had to deal with psychopathic conservative boomers and karens all the time.  Nothing brings a bigger smile than knowing these boomers and karens are now in the process of watching everything they love burn to the ground.


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## Mrs Paul (Aug 30, 2020)

c-no said:


> I had to read Marx as an entire subject for a whole semester to graduate. I can't even say much about him other than I could get what his beef was back then because of how Bongland was and how we didn't have shit like workers comp and OSHA compliances and the like for workers. That said aside from reading the Manifesto, everything else felt like a slog like other books because I just wanted to get to the point. I can only imagine that he'd be spinning in his grave simply in seeing what his ideology managed to evolve into and with seeing how it all played out, down to tankies thinking the USSR did no wrong and anything the USSR did is either justified or a complete gay op from the CIA.



This was for a class in political philosophy, and we were warned in advance how tiring Marx would be to read.  We also read Plato and Aristotle (duh), Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, John Locke, etc.  The usual.

The funny thing is Marx did NOT believe his system would ever work in Russia.  He was imagining it in Britian, or Germany.  Russia was barely industrialized when he was coming up with his theories.

Of course, you have the idiots who think _any_ concession to the working class is "Marxist", which is amusing.  I mean, look at that raging commie who came up with the idea of government healthcare, Otto von Bismarck! 

If you make people too miserable on one side or another, they end up revolting.  And you had people like Lenin, or Mao taking advantage of that.  


(Fascists usually take advantage of a weak system, generally, but it's all the same -- your life sucks)


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## Homer J. Fong (Aug 30, 2020)

Because it's very easy to convince anyone who has to closely manage their money that they are the poor and are thus the "have-nots." A great example of this can be found on Twitter by writer Jess McHugh.




For the record according to various websites the actress who plays Flo is not obscenely rich. The point is jealously is contagious among all classes from the working class to those connected to the higher society like this woman obviously is. And those who are jealous and don't see a quick way to improve their situation want to kneecap the competition. Where Jess McHugh sees herself as apart of a proletariat every nobody in high school and college sees her as the bourgeois.


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## c-no (Aug 31, 2020)

Cardenio said:


> Because it's very easy to convince anyone who has to closely manage their money that they are the poor and are thus the "have-nots." A great example of this can be found on Twitter by writer Jess McHugh.
> View attachment 1560382
> For the record according to various websites the actress who plays Flo is not obscenely rich. The point is jealously is contagious among all classes from the working class to those connected to the higher society like this woman obviously is. And those who are jealous and don't see a quick way to improve their situation want to kneecap the competition. Where Jess McHugh sees herself as apart of a proletariat every nobody in high school and college sees her as the bourgeois.


If they mean't a fictional character, that would of been understandable. On that same note though it'd also be stupid because then you'd just be comparing a fictional character to real life people.


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## PaleTay (Aug 31, 2020)

I think the main reason is that the service economy has failed miserably. People need some sort of project or goal to work towards as a collective, especially since the family structure has been damaged.

Companies are importing millions of immigrants to lower wages and raise the cost of living, and instead of innovating and providing something better for employees and customers there's a race to the bottom and lowering of standards.


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## Merried Senior Comic (Aug 31, 2020)

The only good communist is a dead communist.


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## Gravityqueen4life (Aug 31, 2020)

gibs gibs and MORE GIBS!


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## LazarusOwenhart (Aug 31, 2020)

I think people confuse socialism and communism. Socialism at its core is merely a capitalist society that recognizes that certain public services, particularly pertaining to health and welfare, should be free for all and funded by taxation. Here in the UK I only ever pay what called a prescription charge, which is like £9.20 or something for medication, other than that all my healthcare is free. Even then, people are forelock tugging because you only pay that charge if you fall into a category that can afford it and its per med so some people get slapped with ENORMOUS healthcare bills of like, £27. Socialism also recognizes that in an ideal world, public services, like transport, power, water, telecoms etc should be state run, in theory to prevent price gouging by large corporations and also prevent the kind of competitive backbiting you get when an essential service like power is in private hands. Publicly owned industries actually worked very well in the UK until the trade unions decided to wreck them. The government wanted to modernize the railways but the unions didn't want 1 man diesel locomotives replacing 3 man steam locos because of job losses. We labored on with steam whilst parts of the continent were electrifying. Our state run steel industry died because the unions resisted automation because again, job losses. When the French ran a full fiber network in the 80's, our unions were worried that exchange operators would be out of work. State run industries are inherently more fragile than private ones and eventually the government decided to privatize them, and since then they've been frankly shit (or vanished). Ultimately, democratic socialism done right could be a really nice way to live, but it requires governments and citizens advocacy groups like trade unions to work together on creating it.

Communism is a fucking joke. Planned economies are always doomed to fail and communism can only work if every person placed in a position of authority is 100% incorruptible and scrupulously honest.


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## 5t3n0g0ph3r (Sep 1, 2020)

Robert James said:


> I'd blame the education system and the media that have been ragging on America and capatalism for the past 30+ years for making them hate our current system and wanting to look into alternatives.



THIS.
And it keeps perpetuating itself.
Almost as if by design.


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## Jan Ciągwa (Sep 2, 2020)

Because of "US vs. them" effect. Also because history is cyclical (poetic name for forgetting what you did 100 years ago and repeating it like a dumbass). Communism is pretty much a fashion statement, hippies were communist and teenagers think hippies were radical and cool like bikers/criminals/greasers and others that make your tummy tingle with excitement (girl) or make you feel like a badass for knowing them or acting like them (boy).

During the "Golden" age of capitalism, workers really had it bad. I'm talking about throwing your machine-mutilated factory worker on the street with no notice or pay, reading hate-mail from your workers for fun or forcing your workers to accept your pay in form of "chips" that can only be cashed in your shop for overpriced necessity goods - I mean, they have nowhere else to go, what's going to stop you fucking them over?

Socialism was a good idea then and we wouldn't have most of our current quality control or worker's rights without it. Problem of socialism is glacial adaptation pace and inflexibility, so if you have a multiethnic, high-income-disparity, diverse society it's one of the worst forms of government. Plus, robots and automation in general will become BIG in this century so, uh, this whole "worker" shtick will be obsolete at best and laughable at worst. Workers will become useless, because nobody needs human labor when you can have Semper Fi robots shoveling snow off your yard, which won't sue your ass when they break on the job. I _guess_ socialism will be attractive then, because there will be no need for forced human labor + lots of useless people who, if not placated by (now cost-free) bread and circuses, will feel frustrated and humilated and will burn everything to the ground because they have nothing else to do with their lives.


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## LazarusOwenhart (Sep 2, 2020)

kuniqsX said:


> Because of "US vs. them" effect. Also because history is cyclical (poetic name for forgetting what you did 100 years ago and repeating it like a dumbass). Communism is pretty much a fashion statement, hippies were communist and teenagers think hippies were radical and cool like bikers/criminals/greasers and others that make your tummy tingle with excitement (girl) or make you feel like a badass for knowing them or acting like them (boy).
> 
> During the "Golden" age of capitalism, workers really had it bad. I'm talking about throwing your machine-mutilated factory worker on the street with no notice or pay, reading hate-mail from your workers for fun or forcing your workers to accept your pay in form of "chips" that can only be cashed in your shop for overpriced necessity goods - I mean, they have nowhere else to go, what's going to stop you fucking them over?
> 
> Socialism was a good idea then and we wouldn't have most of our current quality control or worker's rights without it. Problem of socialism is glacial adaptation pace and inflexibility, so if you have a multiethnic, high-income-disparity, diverse society it's one of the worst forms of government. Plus, robots and automation in general will become BIG in this century so, uh, this whole "worker" shtick will be obsolete at best and laughable at worst. Workers will become useless, because nobody needs human labor when you can have Semper Fi robots shoveling snow off your yard, which won't sue your ass when they break on the job. I _guess_ socialism will be attractive then, because there will be no need for forced human labor + lots of useless people who, if not placated by (now cost-free) bread and circuses, will feel frustrated and humilated and will burn everything to the ground because they have nothing else to do with their lives.


By that logic though a form of socialism is going to have to become the norm. If the 'worker' becomes obsolete then no government can simply say "Hey guess what guys, 75% of you are now obsolete equipment, enjoy starving kthnxbye." Not just workers either, the people who form the structure that supports them, HR, Occupational Health, some legal professionals. If we assume in this society a 'useless' person can be assured of housing, healthcare, food and a steady ration of consumer goods the interesting question is how you create what will be effectively be a two tiered, non aspiration based society. If you're of the 'useless' class is there any point educating you if you don't show any promise? Is there then, an argument for pouring extra money in to education to make sure the very best and brightest get the education they need to form that top tier of "useful" people. If you effectively have a glass ceiling over the whole of society that isn't based on race or gender but simply the arbitrary measurement of a persons worth at the age of say, 16 as well as what will likely be an exceptionally competitive job market what sort of anger will the lower class feel? At the moment we have an aspiration based society. When you are born, there are few limits on what you might eventually be. You can be born into poverty and end up a billionaire. Most people aspire to make the next year better than the last, to improve their homes and lives. If you set a bar on 'goods for all, for free' vs 'goods for money, for the privileged' then logically, everyone in the lower class will be living the best life they can by the time they move out, if they even bother to do so. Presumably government provided housing won't be in the 'nice' neighborhoods reserved for the useful class. Suddenly we're back to the old class distinctions and all the problems it brings.


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## Jan Ciągwa (Sep 2, 2020)

Read "Manna" by Marshall Brain. He told it better than I ever could.


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## Knojkamarangasan_#4 (Sep 3, 2020)

Spoiled brats wants free shit and not have to work and put effort in stuff simple as that.


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## LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] (Sep 4, 2020)

They think they will still have the exact same life they have in capitalist first world, with all the commodities and amenities except they won't have to work and can just play videogames and smoke subsidized weed all day. They truly think it will all be the same but with free gibs, free stuff and things would just keep getting better with no drawbacks or anything, and with the plus that they get to expropriate and steal from the rich people they envy. 

That mentality is why populist politicians always do better on their second term than on their first, they buy massive amounts of support during their first run at it because they give away free money and can maintain the illusion of the economy booming by printing more money, paying for nonstop propaganda and going into debts, by the time the consequences happen and hyperinflation explodes the government is already totalitarian and the support of the people wont matter, thats when useful idiots are told to go fuck themselves if they suddenly start getting sassy and commies abroad start damage control saying it was all an international plot or that it wasn't real socialism.


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## Secret Asshole (Sep 5, 2020)

Socialism is different from Communism. We have to hit that distinction first. Socialism is a humanitarian ideal where the government regulates the means of production. You CAN have a Socialist-Capitalist system, to varying degrees. This is because Socialism is not inherently incompatible with Capitalism, and Socialism done right can prevent crony capitalism, monopolies and banking oligarchies. Its pretty much never done right, but I digress.

Communism itself is where the state controls the means of production entirely. Meaning, no entertainment, no food, no products are produced without the permission of the state itself. They feel they can eliminate 'injustice' by making everyone equal if the state controlled everything. The problem is that these economies always fail. China is always teetering on the brink and has to do massive manipulation to keep its economy going, and it isn't really 100% Communist anymore. They believe that in this system, everyone will be equal and that they, because they are so smart, will just be members of the party. They won't be the workers or laborers dying in factories and mines because the government cuts costs to the bone, because a planned economy is ridiculously inefficient. The cold reality is that most of these people would be the first up against the wall.

In a Communist society, the strongest, most corrupt and most brutal rule. Someone who can forcefully cow the state to his will. The revolutionaries who created the communist government typically don't last long. There's been a long standing suspicion that Stalin killed Lenin. Also Trotsky, one of the architects of the USSR, got rewarded for his creation of the communist state by getting an ice pick to the head by a Mexican Communist Assassin. 

There's also this complete disillusion and lack of planning for the future. They get worthless degrees and think they're entitled to something. They go to the day-care center known as college, get coddled and doted on and catered to their every whim in the safest of spaces, and then when they go out into the world, they find the walls aren't padded, they're lined with spikes and people are all-too happy to push your face right into them. They don't go for higher STEM degrees, because the higher up you go, the less you are coddled and the harder you are beaten down. It takes a lot of willpower and inner strength to get higher degrees in STEM. Which a lot of these people do not have. So instead of bettering themselves or contributing, they lament that they can't do anything with these degrees that their university said were so amazing. They look to what everyone else has and get arrogant and angry. They want their entire lives to be a safe padded room, and Communism (they think) will offer them maximum comfort and minimal effort, since the state will 'take care' of them.

The main problem is Communist societies are notoriously violent and corrupt. They would be completely unprepared for the abject poverty they would experience, while the strongest beat them down. In a communist society, where the workers are valued over intellectuals, they will be fodder. They will be reviled. They have no concept of the real world and view communism as an out to all their problems, another way they can be coddled by the state. They can also control the media and entertainment, shaping it to what they want without any of that pesky 'vote with your wallet'. Again, the things that would happen would be all entertainment would be propaganda. Foreign entertainment is banned or heavily regulated. They won't be dictating anything. They will at best live in poverty and at worst be laid low by a strongman who comes in and beats them down, executes them and forces the entire society into poverty so you have to suck on a party member's cock just so you can get an extra bread ration.


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## Alba gu brath (Sep 5, 2020)

Oh dinnae get me wrong here, commie myself, or hell, socialist. But I'm coming at it from a European standing point, didn't hae the red scare as badly as the yanks. Need to take it from the historical perspective, sae, what pushed socialism here in Britain was the second world war, sae you hae the blitz and the ltieral crumbling ae the cities, London and shit. Technically, we could have gone back as things were, but the people pushed ol' Winston out of office, big surprise there aye, but they voted in probably one of the most radical - by that time period - governments you could have had in Britain. Sae, rather than people wanting it generally, it's events, life conditions and sae on that'll push the wee zoomers towards it.

You're getting it in America mostly because of social mobility, health care being an utter shite heap in terms of equality and all the other lefty/general issues you poor buggers hae at the moment. Take away, or fix those issues and you'll find the desire will slowly deflate if not drastically deflate. Why push tae the left, if the middle ground you're standing on is holding nice n'firm, ken? Sae, the wee zoomers are seeing these perceived, or real reasons to be angry, worried and sae on. Even more sae now, you hae the internet, sae issues that are more local, are now being broadcast nationally, sae everyin thinks every wee shitty cop is now in their district, and they need to get out and protest and all ae that pish. What could be smaller issues in the wider scale, are being magnified tae the breaking point. Just happens when information is sae widely available. 

But aye, like I said, give folk a livable wage, deal with the rent issues and you'll see the need/desire bugger of nearly entirely. Fail to do that, and it's just going to expand. 

But to just give an idea, selfishness could/is pushing me towards ye auld lefty shit. Show me a disabled bugger like myself demanding laissez faire styled government, and I'll point to someone who clearly is getting money somewhere else to fluff their life along. Your uncle Toms of the fecked lot, if ya will.


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## JoseRaulChupacabra (Sep 7, 2020)

Secret Asshole said:


> There's also this complete disillusion and lack of planning for the future. They get worthless degrees and think they're entitled to something. They go to the day-care center known as college, get coddled and doted on and catered to their every whim in the safest of spaces, and then when they go out into the world, they find the walls aren't padded, they're lined with spikes and people are all-too happy to push your face right into them.


I think part of it is also the LARP.  In fact, I'm almost certain that's a big appeal for some of them, consciously or not.  Why have normal views when that entails being a nobody IRL, when joining the party allows you to feel like a revolutionary - indulge in self righteous anger, hear the sound of your own voice, trigger and own the neo-libs and ask them if they ever read LockeKapital.


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## Driftwood (Sep 7, 2020)

I think LARP and they want an excuse for deviency. I don't necessarily hate the idea of communism, rather I know people are shit and it would never work in reality. I accept that.


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## Pickle Dick (Sep 7, 2020)

but muh anarcho-communism

communism is always meant to be stateless!!111!one11


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## Cybertonian (Sep 10, 2020)

A lot of pro-communism sentiment as of recent probably also grew out of the "intellectual outsider" doctrine of tumblr from the early-mid 2010s: basically, teenagers and twenty-somethings who see themselves as being part of an enlightened group of people (need to fit in due to real life failure of social affiliation) and their other peers in school as being ignorant, corrupt, and in need of education. Basically, a dopamine rush from being morally superior as well as "unique". Of course, they fail to recognize the lack of nuance inherent in their own views (the fact that many things are emergent phenomenon, so it's often hard to dissect isuses simply, and that because of this, their ideologies aren't much more than a bunch of token phrases they repeat) because their ~quirky and intelligent~ peers told them they're right.


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## MrJokerRager (Sep 10, 2020)

A question I have though is that a lot of antifa and woketards work at high paying jobs with silicon valley and other places. And yet they love communism as well. The neoliberals these days are working with them.


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## Jan Ciągwa (Sep 10, 2020)

Just because they earn a lot in Silicon Valley doesn't mean they actually do any useful, requested work. All those workplace standards, requirements, quotas etc. create an environment where the creative and industrious feel suffocated while the grifters feel at home.

I never met a self-employed, tax-paying person who liked anything about communism; what they want is to pay 0 tax and spend 0 time on things that earn them 0 money like doing the Taxman's job for free (i.e. bookkeeping/invoices).


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## Bungus Scrungus (Sep 10, 2020)

An ideology created by a hypocritical bastard who was rightfully seen as a crazy piece of garbage in his time is truly only destined for failure. People should have stopped longing for it as soon as the elections held after the dissolution of the Soviet Union showed that no one. Fucking *NO ONE* on the Eastern Bloc wanted that shit back. Poland voted 99 to 1. *99 to 1.* But no, if there's one thing the freedom bestowed to America allows, it's idiotic people who know nothing of anything being allowed to say whatever, and somehow get support for it. It's no surprise any actually decently educated people or those who lived through this shit who ironically weren't the 1% whom the system didn't suck massive dick for; immediately disavow and tell Communism to fuck off.


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## DukeOfNimonia (Sep 10, 2020)

Aidan said:


> I think it's a combination of many things but primarily, it's trendy. You will not be destroyed online in most places for praising communism and since it's also "cool" it's free upvotes/likes/dopamine-icon.
> If you ask them what communism is they will probably tell you it's equality for all, free healthcare, free education, public transportation, a fair government, and then some. ALL positive traits. Ask them to name one problem with communism or whatever flavor they've decided to champion and they won't be able to.
> 
> They don't look into history nor do they care what you have to say. When they say communism is cool they get dopamine-icons and that's that.


These people aren't talking about the Soviet Union or DPR Korea.  They mean something more like the UK or EU, where healthcare is either cheap or free, and people are free to start families and get higher education without crippling debt.  Places where a two-week hospital stay won't lead to a six-figure medical bill.  Places where they get paid sick leave, paid maternity leave, and paid vacation.

A place where human need comes ahead of corporate greed.

Yeah...that's much better than the utter shitshow called the American system.


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## Discord (Sep 10, 2020)

They are only _promises_ of free stuff and better everything, who in the world doesn't want free stuff? It's an inherent appeal to most people but in reality how often has it really worked? Who is going to pay for it?

Younger audiences aren't usually the ones who think about long term consequences, and that's an easy exploit to get votes, favors, support, and power from the young and ignorant.


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## Hux (Sep 10, 2020)

Pickle Dick said:


> but muh anarcho-communism
> 
> communism is always meant to be stateless!!111!one11


Anytime you ever come across anyone who ever refers to themselves as an Anarcho-Anything, let alone -Communist, you can very safely deduct that there is nothing that person will say that will add any value to your life

_*Especially*_ if the first digit of that person's age is greater than 1


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## Aidan (Sep 10, 2020)

DukeOfNimonia said:


> These people aren't talking about the Soviet Union or DPR Korea.  They mean something more like the UK or EU, where healthcare is either cheap or free, and people are free to start families and get higher education without crippling debt.  Places where a two-week hospital stay won't lead to a six-figure medical bill.  Places where they get paid sick leave, paid maternity leave, and paid vacation.
> 
> A place where human need comes ahead of corporate greed.
> 
> Yeah...that's much better than the utter shitshow called the American system.


These people don't know what they're talking about even if they say "I'm talking about..." and the few who are able to stand behind a podium to preach to the followers tend to be more extreme than just wanting a few socialized programs instituted. There's no "just" with these people which is part of the problem.
Interestingly, it's corporations in the US that tend to publicly back these people more than anything.

To me, I just think most of them want free stuff. A lot of #berniebros were banking on their student debt being forgiven. The rest was just icing on the cake, as long as Bernie basically signed a check for their overpriced education they voluntarily entered into. The horror stories of US education being cruelly expensive are based in truth but most student don't end up with even 40k in debt, let alone 100k. Poor people most of all are the least likely to be in such extreme debt, so the ones who "go broke" from that debt were their own enemies all along and it is not my job as a taxpayer to solve their problems.
The loudest in support of socialized healthcare are usually also broken in some way, often at fault of their own. See: Fat

That isn't to say college and university isn't an overpriced racket that's taking advantage of ignorant young adults or that US healthcare is flawless or fairly priced, it's saying that these people just want it to be free and don't care to address the actual systemic problems that led to the current disasters. Fuck them.


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## DukeOfNimonia (Sep 10, 2020)

Discord said:


> They are only _promises_ of free stuff and better everything, who in the world doesn't want free stuff? It's an inherent appeal to most people but in reality how often has it really worked? Who is going to pay for it?



It's not free stuff; it's government-financed stuff that our taxes pay for.  Just like K-12 school, the libraries, the police, fire department, and seemingly 69,105 other things that our taxes finance.  If you want some ideas?  Try luxury taxes, sin taxes, or taxes on assets that exceed so many millions of dollars.  This is a challenge that every civilized nation on Earth has succeeded.  What's wrong with us?



> Younger audiences aren't usually the ones who think about long term consequences, and that's an easy exploit to get votes, favors, support, and power from the young and ignorant.


That's rich, when we consider that it's the boomer generation which fucked us with their short-sightedness.  The younger ones see the long-term consequences of these boomers' actions all too well - unemployment, debt, and financial ruin.  Just ask any millennial - they don't want to be _Lumpenproleteriat_ - they just want to make their way in the world without being financially assraped at every turn.

The boomers and capitalist overclass are the villains here.  Not the millennials.


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## Dread First (Sep 10, 2020)

I don't want socialism or communism. All I want is the following:

A proper network of safety that isn't liable to be gutted whenever the USA wants to fund the war machine. UBI/Negative income tax was supported by Milton Friedman, the man that the USA based their monetary policy off of. I don't think that's a controversial opinion to have.
A healthcare system where pharmaceutical companies and insurance providers aren't working together to bleed citizens dry of every last shekel they have
Total transparency with the way that tax dollars on a municipal, state, and federal level are spent made easily accessible to anyone who wants to know such information.


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## Sage In All Fields (Sep 10, 2020)

1. They lack meaning, but traditional religion is 'cringe' so they made one up where everything their heart desires is allowed and the only people who are bad are the ones who don't let them have it and that in turn gives them something to fight for.
2. Liberal capitalism has utterly failed our generation, all sorts of very avoidable social maladies are prevalent, then here comes along communism which promises them the world. No matter how uncertain they are of the benefits of communism, they are more certain about the damage liberal capitalism has done. Why wouldn't they be communists?



Hux said:


> Anytime you ever come across anyone who ever refers to themselves as an Anarcho-Anything, let alone -Communist, you can very safely deduct that there is nothing that person will say that will add any value to your life


I disagree, I think that every atheist should read The Ego and it's Own if they're unwilling to seriously consider reading any religious text.



Bungus Scrungus said:


> But no, if there's one thing the freedom bestowed to America allows, it's idiotic people who know nothing of anything being allowed to say whatever, and somehow get support for it.


It's almost like systems seek order and all 'freedom' does is leave a massive power vaccum to be filled by the next thing that comes along. It's literally why anarchism doesn't works but lolbertarians for some reason thinks that stops applying once you have some kind of state.


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## GuntPunt (Sep 10, 2020)

They have never experienced hardship in their lives, typically. They were brainwashed by whatever influencer, be it education or social media or even their parents, to romanticize it. It always starts with the students and then it catches on to the useful idiots until the implementers get into the governments.

I can give you a recent example. Nicaragua is currently going through a Cold Civil War. Ironically, it started when engineering students in Managua protested for fair elections at the University. Over 50 students were executed by the state, which pissed everyone off. The government realized that the Internet was showing their actions beyond the censor, but acclimated to the situation too late. What's the point of all this? Free speech and freedom to protest are the things Antifa and the champaign socialists use to express their message and they are the first things to go under Communism. They don't know what it is like to live under these conditions, and believe they won't be lined up against the wall like everyone else. They can't piece together that Communism is tool where REAL fascists use to get into power and control with an iron grip.

I just find it horrific that students can preach the joys of Communism undisturbed due to the freedoms in one country, and south of the border that students are shot for wanting a free country under a Communist dictatorship.


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## DukeOfNimonia (Sep 10, 2020)

GuntPunt said:


> They have never experienced hardship in their lives, typically. They were brainwashed by whatever influencer, be it education or social media or even their parents, to romanticize it. It always starts with the students and then it catches on to the useful idiots until the implementers get into the governments.



Are you fucking joking?  The ones who are rising up are the ones suffocated by student loan debt, a dying economy, and an inability to see much of a future under the current system.  The ones doing the brainwashing are the overclass who preach about bootstraps and elbow grease, oblivious to the fact that these things can only overcome so much.  They're working hard, yet not getting anywhere.  Start with this:  https://medium.com/@umairh



> I can give you a recent example. Nicaragua is currently going through a Cold Civil War. Ironically, it started when engineering students in Managua protested for fair elections at the University. Over 50 students were executed by the state, which pissed everyone off. The government realized that the Internet was showing their actions beyond the censor, but acclimated to the situation too late. What's the point of all this? Free speech and freedom to protest are the things Antifa and the champaign socialists use to express their message and they are the first things to go under Communism. They don't know what it is like to live under these conditions, and believe they won't be lined up against the wall like everyone else. They can't piece together that Communism is tool where REAL fascists use to get into power and control with an iron grip.



That's Marxism, which is just one branch of Communism.  As I wrote before, these Bernie Bros are more like Social Democrats.  I agree with you about Soviet-style Communism.  I don't think that's what these Millenials want, though.



> I just find it horrific that students can preach the joys of Communism undisturbed due to the freedoms in one country, and south of the border that students are shot for wanting a free country under a Communist dictatorship.


Agreed.


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 10, 2020)

DukeOfNimonia said:


> It's not free stuff; it's government-financed stuff that our taxes pay for.  Just like K-12 school, the libraries, the police, fire department, and seemingly 69,105 other things that our taxes finance.  If you want some ideas?  Try luxury taxes, sin taxes, or taxes on assets that exceed so many millions of dollars.  This is a challenge that every civilized nation on Earth has succeeded.  What's wrong with us?
> 
> 
> That's rich, when we consider that it's the boomer generation which fucked us with their short-sightedness.  The younger ones see the long-term consequences of these boomers' actions all too well - unemployment, debt, and financial ruin.  Just ask any millennial - they don't want to be _Lumpenproleteriat_ - they just want to make their way in the world without being financially assraped at every turn.
> ...



As someone who was born in the early 90's, let me say that the Baby Boomers are unironically the greatest generation that ever lived. Boomers are our cultural and intellectual superiors in all ways imaginable..

The Millennials are the worst generation, especially the Late Millennials and the Early Zoomers too.

Millennials hating on the Boomers is just a mix of troll-shielding and trying to absolve any of the blame they may have for their own failures and shortcomings. Blaming Boomers for all of the big problems faced by Millennials is the generational equivalent of Anthony "A-Log" LoGatto hating on Chris-Chan for being a sperg and "giving autistic people a bad name" or similar bullshit along those lines.

Quit getting your political beliefs from punk culture and Marvel capeshit and while you're at it, close your goddamn mouth and shave your goddamn fucking beard.

(inb4 the tired "OK Boomer" meme)


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## The Pink Panther (Sep 10, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> As someone who was born in the early 90's, let me say that the Baby Boomers are unironically the greatest generation that ever lived. Boomers are our cultural and intellectual superiors in all ways imaginable..
> 
> The Millennials are the worst generation, especially the Late Millennials and the Early Zoomers too.
> 
> ...


What about Generation X?


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 10, 2020)

The Pink Panther said:


> What about Generation X?



Generation X is actually pretty based. I like them


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## The Pink Panther (Sep 10, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> Generation X is actually pretty based. I like them


But they parented the ones you hate so dearly.

Via the late millenials and the zoomers.


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 10, 2020)

The Pink Panther said:


> But they parented the ones you hate so dearly.
> 
> Via the late millenials and the zoomers.



I'm well aware.


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## The Pink Panther (Sep 10, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> I'm well aware.


So don't you think it's because of their sort of lack of good parenting that resulted in that sorta....you know.


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 10, 2020)

The Pink Panther said:


> So don't you think it's because of their sort of lack of good parenting that resulted in that sorta....you know.



Partly, but I'd say more of it had to do with a broken education system, the over-emphasis of the college degree, and the general awfulness of the Religious Right and the Bush Administration in the childhood and teen years of the Millennials and Early Zoomers. The combination of all those factors were a perfect storm that warped the minds of a generation.


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## Eris! (Sep 10, 2020)

For every mouth to feed there are already two hands to feed it.


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## Anti Fun Aktion (Sep 10, 2020)

GuntPunt said:


> They can't piece together that Communism is tool where REAL fascists use to get into power and control with an iron grip.


And they don't understand that fascism was influenced by Hegel and Georges Sorel. Or that it's also anti capitalist in nature using corporatism or syndicalism instead. I also see hammer and sickle avatars in Cultured Thugs comment section from time to time or current third positionists say they were formerly marxists.


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## abacussedout (Sep 11, 2020)

A lot of this talk of kids thinking times are tough now and the future is bleak...do you have parents? Did they have parents? How do the hardships of your grandparents compare to yours?

The berniebros whining about paying their student loans typically spent more money than they should have on things that weren't directly tied to their education, but used their student loans for it (no one is forcing you to buy video games, eat out, travel on vacations). I volunteer with an exchange student organization and it's always amazing to see the contrast between people that come to the states to actually study on a limited budget, and entitled american students who spend like there's no tomorrow. It's not surprising to hear berniebros don't want to have to manage their post college budget enough to pay back debts. They also aren't setting aside money for retirement and expect taxpayers to fund that too.

There are income based payment plans and deferments for financial hardship, programs abound for refinancing, etc.. Education is an investment in your future. It's going to cost you something. If you choose to live frugally during your time at college, including having a part time job, you can come out with very little debt even in today's fucked up pricing. You can reduce this further by going to a community college for the first half of the degree. A lot of high school systems also partner with community colleges so you can start earning credit, even to the point of finishing high school with an associates degree. Or you don't even have to go to school full time. Work full time and take night classes and pay your way through. Our system is amazingly accommodating for all walks of life. All of these things require extra time and effort, however.

But if you agree people should not face the consequences of their spending and want a college degree to become the new lowest common denominator, you don't need to wait until the government forces you via taxes. You can donate to scholarship programs, or just go to any of these riots and offer a random kid money for their education. I'm sure they'll use it wisely.


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## Dom Cruise (Sep 11, 2020)

We've had it drilled into our heads for years that the top 1% have so much more money than everyone else that I think people basically assume they have close to infinite money and that if you just "spread that around" everyone could live comfortably.


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## queerape (Sep 12, 2020)

abacussedout said:


> There are income based payment plans and deferments for financial hardship, programs abound for refinancing, etc.. Education is an investment in your future. It's going to cost you something. If you choose to live frugally during your time at college, including having a part time job, you can come out with very little debt even in today's fucked up pricing. You can reduce this further by going to a community college for the first half of the degree. A lot of high school systems also partner with community colleges so you can start earning credit, even to the point of finishing high school with an associates degree. Or you don't even have to go to school full time. Work full time and take night classes and pay your way through. Our system is amazingly accommodating for all walks of life. All of these things require extra time and effort, however.
> 
> But if you agree people should not face the consequences of their spending and want a college degree to become the new lowest common denominator, you don't need to wait until the government forces you via taxes. You can donate to scholarship programs, or just go to any of these riots and offer a random kid money for their education. I'm sure they'll use it wisely.


A lot of these people don't understand basic finacial planning. I feel bad for a lot of actually disadvantaged people, but if you wasted your time on a bachelors in feminist dance theory, live off off maxed out credit cards, and call anyone who dares invest in assests like stocks and real estate a capitalist pig while refusing to understand how any of that works then you brought it upon yourself. Millenials aren't uniquely screwed, a whole ton of them just made shitty choices and tried to copypaste their parents strategies instead of finding one for themselves and then tried to blame everything but themselves. There's a viable path for the middle class person if you aren't a fucking brainlet. They have a totally irrational hate for real estate investing too, even for private investor landlords. Not everyone wants to be an owner, the more possible arrangements the better.


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## [Redacted]-san (Sep 12, 2020)

I wonder why I want America to become Socialist as well, which wouldn't really happen tbh. And most individuals who want communism in America they hate money that much and want the government to take care of them. I'm just spit balling here at this point. This is a millennial saying this, I'm dissapointed in myself for having Social views.


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## Super-Chevy454 (Sep 12, 2020)

That would be good question to ask to that guy nicknamed Party9999999 then I mentionned once in the Antifa thread. 

One Youtuber posted that point on Styx's vlog. 


> Blue Falcons Suck
> Marxism is just Feudalism without God's approval... They have the money, they want the authority, and set themselves up as Kings without accountability, but just by a different name.


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## YandereDev_ (Sep 12, 2020)

Alot of them probably don't honestly, I bet alot of the pro-socialist rhetoric would go away once these people were pacified by a politician that could actually get them free healthcare/college/sex doll/whatever the fuck


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## Dandelion Eyes (Sep 13, 2020)

Cause they're disillusioned with capitalism?


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 13, 2020)

Dandelion Eyes said:


> Cause they're disillusioned with capitalism?



Except communism is worse in every way for them and a lot of them are delusional and naive in their adherence to the cult. 

Trying to address the flaws of crony capitalism by going full-tilt into communism or anarchism is like getting severe radiation poisoning because you didn't like your haircut and wanted to shave it completely.

Capitalism has its flaws, but communism is hell on earth and it doesn't exactly have the best track record, even when compared to the admittedly shitty corporatism.


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## Eris! (Sep 13, 2020)

Qajinima022 said:


> I wonder why I want America to become Socialist as well, which wouldn't really happen tbh. And most individuals who want communism in America they hate money that much and want the government to take care of them. I'm just spit balling here at this point. This is a millennial saying this, I'm dissapointed in myself for having Social views.


You can fix that by killing yourself.


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## Dandelion Eyes (Sep 13, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> Except communism is worse in every way for them and a lot of them are delusional and naive in their adherence to the cult.
> 
> Trying to address the flaws of crony capitalism by going full-tilt into communism or anarchism is like getting severe radiation poisoning because you didn't like your haircut and wanted to shave it completely.
> 
> Capitalism has its flaws, but communism is hell on earth and it doesn't exactly have the best track record, even when compared to the admittedly shitty corporatism.


Well, I'm pretty sure a lot of them would be glad to live in a social democracy(aka capitalism with regulations and welfare), but it often gets referred to as "socialism" by both sides of the discourse, that it muddies the water.


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## [Redacted]-san (Sep 14, 2020)

Erischan said:


> You can fix that by killing yourself.


No thank you, I rather keep living and just accept that I live in a capitalist society, and stop wanting Socialism/Communism to be a thing in America.


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## Save Goober (Sep 18, 2020)

Why does communism have such a predictable search trend over time?


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## Drain Todger (Sep 18, 2020)

As multiple posters have already said, what we have in modern American society is a problem with kids going to college, being essentially indoctrinated in left-wing philosophy by their professors, getting a degree, and then getting out into the workforce only to find out that they’re in the hole for tens of thousands in college debt, and they can barely find a job making $36k to start. Half of their wage is going into their housing, and most of the other half is going into food, bills, Netflix, whatever. These kids are getting degrees in Communications, Business Administration, Law, and so on, and they’re finding that there aren’t any jobs available for these easy degrees that don’t involve difficult math or using your brain too hard (watch them screech when you suggest that the liberal arts are of limited practical value in a society where technical management is usurping social management). 

All of the decent-paying factory jobs have been outsourced. A lot of the trades involve navigating a complex maze of credentialing and closed union shops and whatnot, and in the end, you’re stuck in a sausage party with a bunch of abrasive macho men that would make most of these college kids wilt with just one look, doing jobs that involve power tools, loud noise, and grease under your fingernails every single day. What they imagined would happen, of course, was that they’d land a cozy office job making $60k, maybe $80k a year straight out of college and be able to pay off their tuition fees in a reasonable timeframe. Instead, they usually end up flipping burgers or serving espresso for the people who do those jobs. 

This leads to a whole lot of resentment, and most of that resentment isn’t even exactly of the unreasonable sort. They paid for a product; their education and their degree. They expected to receive a return on their investment, and yet, they did not. Right out of the starting gate, they are swindled out of a substantial sum of money and forced into debt servitude by over-education and under-employment. This is why many millennials still live with their parents and haven’t really started families of their own. That, in turn, leads to all kinds of emotional troubles.

But the attraction of communism runs deeper than mere practical concerns of this nature. A lot of people are increasingly skeptical of the general manner in which capitalist society is structured. Consider, for a moment, the average office job. A typical office worker spends a considerable amount of time, every workday, commuting and getting ready for work. So much of their time is occupied, they turn to fast food and other services to fulfill tasks that they don’t have enough free time to do on their own. When they get to their cubicle, about 3 hours of the time spent behind their computer, on average, is actual work. The other 5 hours is spent merely passing the time. Ritualized self-imprisonment for a wage. Not to mention, most of what they do could easily be done by telecommuting instead, given how ubiquitous internet access is in most first-world nations, so technically, their commute and all the services between them and their workplace are unnecessary frivolities. 

David Graeber, who recently passed away, was an anthropologist and one of the leading figures in the Occupy Wall Street movement. He wrote a book called _Bullshit Jobs _where he described people relating anecdotes to him about how useless their jobs were.



			https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
		




> The author contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs:
> 
> flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants
> goons, who oppose other goons hired by other companies, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists
> ...




His argument was that these jobs take an emotional toll on the people who perform them, when those people realize that what they do for a living is essentially useless and their job does not need to exist. He also argued that this form of compulsory employment is actually a hallmark of socialist societies; pointless and Sisyphean tasks akin to digging a ditch and filling it in over and over again, just like in a gulag.

Another factor is the increasing influence of the FIRE industry on society’s affairs; Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate, in other words. Finance and insurance, in particular, are not actually real goods of any physical substance or use-value, but are “virtual” goods represented by the wholly imaginary value of money and debt. The larger the share of the market occupied by finance (i.e. paper-shuffling and making money with money), the less of it is occupied by other things (i.e. real industries that produce real goods that people can use and enjoy), however, this is relative. In most instances, Finance serves to increase growth and liquidity of the overall market, insurance acts as a hedge against risk, and real estate offers investors the opportunity to invest in, and reap the rewards from, rents on properties. 

When people have no assets and they rely entirely on wages to make their money, they grow resentful towards people who have assets, of course. This is because, as Thomas Piketty put it, R > G. The return on capital investment is inevitably higher than the growth of wages. What this means is that capitalist societies are inevitably unequal, in the sense that those with no assets are at a strict disadvantage compared to those who have them. A lot of people don’t understand how finance works. A lot of these people have never invested in their lives, and recoil in horror at the idea of owning stock. I’ve owned stock. It’s not a big deal. When these college kids hear that Jeff Bezos is worth $131 billion dollars, they imagine a literal Scrooge McDuck swimming pool of money, filled with that exact sum. Many of them don’t understand that his wealth is locked up in his assets, and if he were to sell his Amazon stock, the value of the company would shit itself and he’d be taxed on the proceeds, so basically, he has every incentive to keep holding stock in his own company. The more clever communists note that Jeffy B. can basically use his stock as collateral in a very low-interest loan of any size, so he could technically buy, oh, I dunno, a private submarine and an underground sub pen, or whatever the hell he wanted.

Another thing is that people with a high net worth do indeed have an outsized level of influence on politics, through their many charitable organizations, think tanks, and lobbying groups. In other words, they can use their financial power as a lever to nudge society in the direction they wish, usually in the direction that nets them more profit and minimizes the wages and labor protections of their employees.

Furthermore, it is arguable that a lot of what capitalism promotes is essentially wasteful consumerism. Past a certain point, there is such a thing as uneconomic growth. Capitalism is stuck in a cycle of endless growth. Under capitalism, economic contraction of any kind, even the kind required to lessen the burden on the environment, is a failure mode. There is such a large web of debts and obligations and contracts under capitalism, all it takes to bring the whole thing to a screeching halt is a large number of people suddenly defaulting on a bunch of loans. Growth is necessary, because it feeds back into the cycle of parasitical usury that underpins much of our financial system. If someone says they want to save the environment with an alternative energy source or material, usually, what they really want is to sell you a fancy new product.

Our society also happens to discard tons and tons of its wealth in the trash. Planned obsolescence means that people buy things that were designed to expire, become unfashionable, or break after a short while, guaranteeing their re-purchase and a constant stream of revenue. Unfortunately, this means everyone has to work like dogs to keep re-creating the wealth that was lost, for if they were to hoard that wealth instead and stop buying and trading things, the resultant illiquidity would destroy the markets. As a rule, capitalism discourages frugality and encourages extravagant spending, hence consumerism. Of course, many of these young millennials are fooled into becoming quite consumerist themselves, mainly to fill the void left by their unfulfilling and pointless jobs; in this schema, luxuries like streaming subscription services are merely there to make the moral and spiritual bankruptcy of their existences more tolerable.

So, in a sense, there are a number of reasonable anti-capitalist arguments out there that lure people into communism’s arms. Unfortunately, none of these solve the essential problem of socialism; it transfers the unearned influence and power of an unaccountable and shady army of businessmen to an equally unaccountable and shady political party, one who has no real competitors and may torment the citizenry at their leisure. 

At least businessmen are occasionally divided against one another, and make no mistake, the only guarantor of liberty for the plebeian masses in a functioning society is an upper class divided against itself. That’s why we have anti-trust laws. That’s why we have government as a check against corporate power. Unfortunately, our government doesn’t always hold up its end of the bargain; once the rich get rich enough, they simply pay government to let them get away with murder.



			https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/01/21/if-worker-pay-had-kept-pace-productivity-gains-1968-todays-minimum-wage-would-be-24
		


If the minimum wage in the US had kept up with our increase in productivity, it would be $24 an hour right now. If the minimum wage was actually $24 an hour, companies would be employing half as many people to try and balance their books, and any wage surplus would soon be eaten up by the increased price of goods and the increased cost of living, as the ones selling those goods would detect that their customers have the ability to pay more.

Most millennials who are attracted to communism don’t actually want to work like a dog, like people did in old Soviet Russia. They envision a society with more or less the same amount of wealth, but less laboring overall and more time for leisure (a.k.a. ”please gimme Patreonbux for my shitty art”), either due to automation or the elimination of unnecessary, environmentally destructive, and emotionally taxing work. The goal isn’t to “have free things”. The goal is to get rid of work, which is the one thing standing between them and a permanent childhood.


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## Mexican_Wizard_711 (Sep 18, 2020)

What do the economic kiwis think of Joseph Schumpeter?


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## Pickle Dick (Sep 18, 2020)

Drain Todger said:


> As multiple posters have already said, what we have in modern American society is a problem with kids going to college, being essentially indoctrinated in left-wing philosophy by their professors, getting a degree, and then getting out into the workforce only to find out that they’re in the hole for tens of thousands in college debt, and they can barely find a job making $36k to start. Half of their wage is going into their housing, and most of the other half is going into food, bills, Netflix, whatever. These kids are getting degrees in Communications, Business Administration, Law, and so on, and they’re finding that there aren’t any jobs available for these easy degrees that don’t involve difficult math or using your brain too hard (watch them screech when you suggest that the liberal arts are of limited practical value in a society where technical management is usurping social management).
> 
> All of the decent-paying factory jobs have been outsourced. A lot of the trades involve navigating a complex maze of credentialing and closed union shops and whatnot, and in the end, you’re stuck in a sausage party with a bunch of abrasive macho men that would make most of these college kids wilt with just one look, doing jobs that involve power tools, loud noise, and grease under your fingernails every single day. What they imagined would happen, of course, was that they’d land a cozy office job making $60k, maybe $80k a year straight out of college and be able to pay off their tuition fees in a reasonable timeframe. Instead, they usually end up flipping burgers or serving espresso for the people who do those jobs.
> 
> ...


so in short, there are legitimate criticisms to be had with capitalism, but most of the people that are criticising it are lazy bums that dont actually want to work at all and instead want free stuff from the government? that seems about right.


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## Xerxes IX (Sep 18, 2020)

Pickle Dick said:


> so in short, there are legitimate criticisms to be had with capitalism, but most of the people that are criticising it are lazy bums that dont actually want to work at all and instead want free stuff from the government? that seems about right.


Especially when these capitalism critics see no problem with wasteful consumerism and planned obsolecense. They keep buying into those things while shaking their fists and cursing capitalism. Some use the "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" meme line to mean basically the same thing as a religious person going "well I WOULDN'T be committing sin if the temptation didn't exist" If one of the reasons you hate capitalism is it costs too much to replace your old iphone with the new one, you have officially lost the plot.


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## ImBatman (Sep 20, 2020)

Pickle Dick said:


> so in short, there are legitimate criticisms to be had with capitalism, but most of the people that are criticising it are lazy bums that dont actually want to work at all and instead want free stuff from the government? that seems about right.


Well, basically. I find it very difficult to find people who are 100% satisfied with capitalism. The problem is that communism is a nuclear solution that doesn't make things better - but it's propagandized as a magical, silver spoon solution that will fix everything. Anyone who buys into something like that isn't thinking too hard about it and is thus most likely lacking in the willpower to truly educate themselves, and that lack of willpower is also apparent in their desire to do virtually anything else.

I hate the way the world is right now. I would do anything in my power to change it for the better if I could. But I can't, and because of that, I'm fine with just accepting the way things are and working hard to ensure my own personal success. I imagine that many people who dislike communism would agree with the sentiment. No one wants to work, no one wants to abandon their hobbies or passions for something that they find to be useless or soul-crushing, and yet it's only through conceding to that you can ever find some happiness in life. And yet, it's like the mere idea of admitting that a perfect world is a pipe dream and trying to adjust to our own, imperfect society is sinful to them.


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## PaleTay (Sep 22, 2020)

Drain Todger said:


> As multiple posters have already said, what we have in modern American society is a problem with kids going to college, being essentially indoctrinated in left-wing philosophy by their professors, getting a degree, and then getting out into the workforce only to find out that they’re in the hole for tens of thousands in college debt, and they can barely find a job making $36k to start. Half of their wage is going into their housing, and most of the other half is going into food, bills, Netflix, whatever. These kids are getting degrees in Communications, Business Administration, Law, and so on, and they’re finding that there aren’t any jobs available for these easy degrees that don’t involve difficult math or using your brain too hard (watch them screech when you suggest that the liberal arts are of limited practical value in a society where technical management is usurping social management).
> 
> All of the decent-paying factory jobs have been outsourced. A lot of the trades involve navigating a complex maze of credentialing and closed union shops and whatnot, and in the end, you’re stuck in a sausage party with a bunch of abrasive macho men that would make most of these college kids wilt with just one look, doing jobs that involve power tools, loud noise, and grease under your fingernails every single day. What they imagined would happen, of course, was that they’d land a cozy office job making $60k, maybe $80k a year straight out of college and be able to pay off their tuition fees in a reasonable timeframe. Instead, they usually end up flipping burgers or serving espresso for the people who do those jobs.
> 
> ...



I'd take Graeber's argument further and Buckminister Fuller actually made many of the thoughts I've had about society decades ago. Fuller believed that there's no merit to the idea that people had to earn a living, as technology should evolve to make that idea obsolete and people should focus on human advancement in one way or another. I think many jobs' existence in one form or another stand in the way of progress. A secondary point of the bullshit jobs is to prevent the intelligent people from revolutionizing humanity to various degrees as jobs need to exist and they need to be simple enough that the masses can do them.

I think it goes beyond the cage of time that you're trapped in, in say an office job, but there's also a chaining of skill that restricts talent or personal growth. There's no reward for finishing your work in an hour, in fact there may be a punishment. I will say university graduates deserve better in many solely for having intermediate computer skills, it's unacceptable that so many people still struggle with basic computer tasks and refuse to improve.

There's not a lot of point in hiring most middle class jobs, but sometimes you are forced to for practical or legal reasons. A lot of jobs do not provide the individual with much value. I cannot simply hire a tradesman/mover, someone in real estate or finance, or someone in IT and expect them to be competent and charge me a fair price, I have to know enough about their job to ensure they're competent and acting in my interest.

I do consider restaurants wasteful consumerism and constitute a large chunk of the economy, yet many simply appeal to those who cannot cook.


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## Wilhelm Bittrich (Sep 22, 2020)

Mrs Paul said:


> Of course, you have the idiots who think _any_ concession to the working class is "Marxist", which is amusing.  I mean, look at that raging commie who came up with the idea of government healthcare, Otto von Bismarck!


Tbh, it was Bismarck with great support of the then Kaiser Wilhelm I. 
_*". . .those who are disabled from work by age and invalidity have a well-grounded claim to care from the state." - *_*Emperor Wilhelm I.*
The invention of the German social security net was a classic "revolution from above".

Timeline of the development of the German Social Security System:
1883: Sickness Insurance Law (Health insurance)
1884: Accident Insurance Law
1889:  Old age, widow's/widower's, orphans and disability pension insurance law
1927: Unemployment insurance law
The first three insurance laws were mandatory for people with an yearly income of less than 2,000 Reichsmarks and by 1925 two thirds of the labor force were covered. 
White collar workers added by 1911. 
100% coverage of workforce by 1957.
1971 University students are covered too.


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## Drain Todger (Sep 22, 2020)

PaleTay said:


> I'd take Graeber's argument further and Buckminister Fuller actually made many of the thoughts I've had about society decades ago. Fuller believed that there's no merit to the idea that people had to earn a living, as technology should evolve to make that idea obsolete and people should focus on human advancement in one way or another. I think many jobs' existence in one form or another stand in the way of progress. A secondary point of the bullshit jobs is to prevent the intelligent people from revolutionizing humanity to various degrees as jobs need to exist and they need to be simple enough that the masses can do them.
> 
> I think it goes beyond the cage of time that you're trapped in, in say an office job, but there's also a chaining of skill that restricts talent or personal growth. There's no reward for finishing your work in an hour, in fact there may be a punishment. I will say university graduates deserve better in many solely for having intermediate computer skills, it's unacceptable that so many people still struggle with basic computer tasks and refuse to improve.
> 
> ...



That's the way I've always seen it, too. The abolition of work - especially of meaningless make-work variety - should be seen as a way to free up labor for other, more productive things. If people are toiling unnecessarily at an assembly line, doing a job that a robot could do, or if they're busy bean-counting, I can tell you what they're not doing; writing a book, or learning the guitar, or painting a picture, or doing valuable research. It is a waste of mankind's vast potential to employ us doing pointless, rehashed tasks over and over again. If we want to be frugal, then we need an economy that can withstand people purchasing more durable goods that last a long time and not purchasing them again for a good ten or twenty years. For that, we must eliminate planned obsolescence. One of my favorite analogies for this is the razor. Back in the day, a straight razor was an heirloom item. It took skill to use without cutting oneself, but always afforded the user the cleanest possible shave. If properly maintained, it could last basically forever. People collect and use restored straight razors that are easily a century old. Compare and contrast with the modern disposable razor. Safe and easy to use, sure, but it rusts and dulls after only a few weeks of steady usage. Which would you rather have? A $1.32 razor that lasts 3 weeks before you throw it away, or a $150 razor that lasts 5,200 weeks and which you can pass down to your children? There are a lot of things in society that have become disposable like this. Eliminating consumerism and the throw-away society is about more than just protecting the environment and achieving degrowth. It's about eliminating uneconomic growth and keeping mankind's wealth and congealed labor from being unjustly discarded.

There is a text from the 1930s by a man named Bernard London, a Freemason, that directly opposed this point of view and advocated for more planned obsolescence to end the Great Depression.



			https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/London_(1932)_Ending_the_depression_through_planned_obsolescence.pdf
		




> People everywhere are today disobeying the law of obsolescence. They are using their old cars, their old tires, their old radios and their old clothing much longer than statisticians had expected on the basis of earlier experience.
> 
> The question before the American people is whether they want to risk their future on such continued planless, haphazard, fickle attitudes of owners of ships and shoes and sealing wax.
> 
> ...



He advocated literally rounding up all the "junk" that people were keeping past its prime and destroying it, just to ensure that people would work and grow the economy. Though it seemed a somewhat fanciful idea at the time, in many ways, this resembles our current economic system. People buy new smartphones once every year or two, and the old phone ends up in a landfill. I know people who lease a new car every year because they need that kind of constant novelty and have grown bored with what they already have.









						Thorstein Veblen - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Thorstein Veblen was one of my favorite writers. He was the one who coined the term "conspicuous consumption". That's when someone buys something just to keep up with the Joneses, and not because they actually need it; the token of wealth is valuable to them simply because it demonstrates their wealth to others, socially. If you buy a Rolex and flash it to people, that's conspicuous consumption.

What I argue is that conspicuous consumption and planned obsolescence form a vicious cycle that depletes natural resources and destroys our wealth, forcing us to work to replace the lost wealth, when we could be working to advance the sciences and our culture instead. The throw-away society is essentially an empty ritual that serves nothing. It's basically a collective, planetary-scale engagement in absurd performance art, and all it really does is enrich a tiny handful of already very rich bankers.


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## Soulless4510 (Sep 23, 2020)

Drain Todger said:


> What I argue is that conspicuous consumption and planned obsolescence form a vicious cycle that depletes natural resources and destroys our wealth, forcing us to work to replace the lost wealth, when we could be working to advance the sciences and our culture instead. The throw-away society is essentially an empty ritual that serves nothing. It's basically a collective, planetary-scale engagement in absurd performance art, and all it really does is enrich a tiny handful of already very rich bankers.



The problem with that is it would take at least 2-3 generations IMHO to unlearn conspicuous consumption as it is so ingrained in all of us so deeply that people would lose their minds if this system were to fade away right now


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Sep 23, 2020)

Comrades, it is a great fact that the misery of the working masses has not diminished from 1836 to 2020, and yet this period is unrivaled in the development of its industry and the growth of its commerce. Capital is dead labour, that, vampire-like, only lives by sucking living labour, and live the more, the more labour it sucks. The time during which the labourer works, is the time during which the capitalist consumes the labour-power he has purchased of him.

As time passes, all social rules and all relations between individuals are eroded by a crash economy, avarice drags Pluto himself out of the bowels of the earth. In light of this, we want, no, we NEED a free society, where no one is considered to be superior, no one is left behind and where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity. We need a society without a government, without class divisions and where the workers control the means of production.

The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. Let the ruling classes tremble at the Communist revolution.


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## Violent Ken Apologist (Sep 23, 2020)

Not this shit again. You guys are brainwashed. No significant amount of people want it, the media just censor anyone who doesn't and it's like playing a 9-1 matchup in a game with the 1 being the dude piloting capitalism. The second all the conditional shackles on dissenters come off or start to loosen even one bit we'd overrun the world and we more or less have at least controlled politics using just the limited freedom we have left: literally just to vote. Free healthcare is a good idea and possible but beyond that no one except mad people agree with the concept of losing our privacy or rights and being killed as collateral or for being simply related to people they dislike.

Fact is, 'bigotry' is marketable, if you could popularise a lot of those views without governmental blowback corporations would lean into and happily bank from it.

edit: What I'm trying to say is, and please let this double post sit as a pleading exception, (I just decided to add it.) you'll never beat us. Freedom will win every time because we know humans are naturally kind and can work things out without hating each other in the end. And you can't force them to be better without letting them figure it out first. You have everyone up to their eyeballs in propaganda and lies and it's working about as well as saying Kim Jong can make wine out of water would to his disenfranchised and famine laden population. If they don't believe any of his bullshit under threat of death what makes you think we'll believe your lies ever, period? Like, whatever you do?


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## Bum Driller (Sep 24, 2020)

JeanActimel said:


> A healthy dose of socialism can make the general living conditions of peoples way better.



Rather a healthy dose of social democracy, to be precise. This is undoubtedly so, and you can see the effects in any Scandinavian country. Sure, this is not a paradise, but I'm quite ready to claim that nowhere else and in no other period of time has there existed as equal, in terms of living conditions between the poor and the rich, societies as currently are in Scandinavian countries.


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## Lou’s Biggest Fan (Sep 24, 2020)

Socialism and Communism are not the same thing nor is one a slippery slope to the other, just as Capitalism and Corporatocracy is not the same thing nor is on a slippery slope to the other.

Socialism, more specifically Democratic Socialism, is simply the government being force to do its job: use it’s tax funds and other income to care for the citizens that allow it to exist by providing free services to all citizens as a perk of being a tax paying citizen of that country, such as universal healthcare, nationalized transportation systems, national postal services, a government funded ISP that provides basic internet access to all, and in more extreme cases a basic universal income that covers simple living expenses for those who can’t work for whatever reason. As well as any other systems like that.

People want systems like that because it’s better use of the tax money the government already steals from us that the dumb shit they do with it for other crap, and raises the standard of living across the board for all residents, which means the population is happier, healthier, and more able to spend money on luxuries and benefit the economy by having more people able to spend more money on more things.

As for why people want communism, because Counter Culture.

That’s it. Because it’s trendy to hate capitalism and communism is the opposite of capitalism. So people declare themselves to be communists to seem edgy and woke.


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## Driftwood (Sep 24, 2020)

Why is communism given such a pass for atrocities committed in the name of may be the real question. So many people either do not know what Communists did or say well yeah but Nazis and you have to admit Commies are more desirable over them. Um, no, not really. Not after you spent more than five minutes reading about it. Shit is easily just as bad as what the Nazis did. But this is part of why people feel more comfortable with far leftist extremism running riot today. They really do believe it is not as oppressive or dangerous as far right ideologies despite the fact it absolutely is.


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## murgatroid (Sep 24, 2020)

I think a large number think it will somehow correct social "injustices" that go on in capitalist countries. While in reality it will be more corrupt and unjust. Economic systems won't correct human nature.

Also, as @Lou’s Biggest Fan posted above, socialism and communism are not the same things despite seemingly being used interchangeably by people on all sides of the political spectrum.


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## Gun Safety (Sep 24, 2020)

People are communists/socialists because its easier to get laid when you ID as one of them because its fashionable


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Sep 25, 2020)

Lou’s Biggest Fan said:


> a basic universal income that covers simple living expenses for those who can’t work for whatever reason.


A universal basic income is a terrible idea - in pretty much every scenario where it's been trialed, it's led to the majority of people just refusing to work. If you're already getting enough money to live without having to work, there's a lot of jobs that a lot of people just wouldn't want to work.  You wouldn't have issues getting high-paid/high-skill workers or workers that are really passionate about the field they're entering. You'd have issues getting workers for the shitty wagie jobs.

Working in Amazon to pay the bills is something many people would do. If you need to do it to put a roof over your head and food in your mouth, people will just sigh and bear it.
Now, working in Amazon to get more money than you currently do? That's something a lot less people would do. Most people would rather have the hours that they'd use working a shit job to do something they're more passionate about.
This applies to the vast majority of low-skill, low-pay jobs. Would many people really want to be retail workers, janitors (not the internet kind), baristas, or labourers if they didn't need to do so to pay the bills?

The only way to really solve this would be to have people pay higher wages to these low-skill jobs to make them much more tempting to people and outweigh the negative of, you know, having to work a job you don't like when you don't need to. This is a cost that many smaller businesses couldn't afford, larger businesses wouldn't want to pay (and would lobby against), and would make high-skill workers demand higher pay themselves.


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## Mr. Bung (Sep 25, 2020)

A Cardboard Box said:


> The Jews ready have control. Reminder 60% of the original Pulitburo were Jews.


I always thought it weird that Jews frequently support communism when they also love money and making money so much. Unless it's that under communism they wouldn't expect the rules to apply to them as well.


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## A Cardboard Box (Sep 25, 2020)

Approx. 59 Robins said:


> A universal basic income is a terrible idea - in pretty much every scenario where it's been trialed, it's led to the majority of people just refusing to work. If you're already getting enough money to live without having to work, there's a lot of jobs that a lot of people just wouldn't want to work.  You wouldn't have issues getting high-paid/high-skill workers or workers that are really passionate about the field they're entering. You'd have issues getting workers for the shitty wagie jobs.
> 
> Working in Amazon to pay the bills is something many people would do. If you need to do it to put a roof over your head and food in your mouth, people will just sigh and bear it.
> Now, working in Amazon to get more money than you currently do? That's something a lot less people would do. Most people would rather have the hours that they'd use working a shit job to do something they're more passionate about.
> ...


Companies should just pay living wages. Easy fix.


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## Mr. Bung (Sep 25, 2020)

A Cardboard Box said:


> Companies should just pay living wages. Easy fix.


Do not underestimate the incredible power of greed. I'm sure CEOs and other higher ups have a visceral reaction to thoughts of sacrificing some of their money to give their employees better wages. If they didn't they would have already been doing it a long time ago.


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## A Cardboard Box (Sep 25, 2020)

Mr. Bung said:


> Do not underestimate the incredible power of greed. I'm sure CEOs and other higher ups have a visceral reaction to thoughts of sacrificing some of their money to give their employees better wages. If they didn't they would have already been doing it a long time ago.


Yes, which requires government intervention.


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## The best and greatest (Sep 26, 2020)

It's not that I "Want"  socialism, its that capitalism (An economic system predicated on the relationship between labor and capital) has a finite shelf-life in a world where human labor is growing increasingly redundant. A world where  the generation of material wealth is near-totally divorced from human labor inputs  is a world  that doesn't need capitalism (Or more correctly, a world where the capitalist doesn't need YOU.)  From then on its either socialism or feudalism, probably a mix of both.  Not a huge fan of either, but if I had to pick...


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## House Rules (Sep 26, 2020)

Pickle Inspector said:


> It seems to be more globalism and hyper-consumerism.
> 
> Like the corperations don't want open borders because they are pro equality, they just want cheap labour.


Yes the right wing are actually very very very keen on mass excessive immigration from the third world to first world countries and people who vote for right wing parties are really fooling themselves a lot that the right doesn't want all that cheap labour for corporations and so they can pay bottom dollar for govt jobs too. The left have been sold the lie that it's for diversity and equality. And that's not me being anti immigrants from anywhere at all it's just the excessiveness of it and how the mass flooding in of people to keep wages and salaries low either way sucks.
As for communism it's a different thing from socialism. And mostly capitalist but social democrat countries such as Norway have nothing in common with communism. Americans have been sold a ridiculous lie that getting anything at all for their tax dollars other than a military and some roads is best because anything else is the bogeyman of socialism/communism. That's why the USA only comes in at 15 in quality of life index ranking compared to countries with social democracy like Denmark, Switzerland and Finland. The idea that people getting anything for their tax dollars means the government has total control over you is a handy myth so the US government can give you very little back for your tax dollars in the USA.


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## LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV] (Sep 26, 2020)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> Comrades, it is a great fact that the misery of the working masses has not diminished from 1836 to 2020, and yet this period is unrivaled in the development of its industry and the growth of its commerce. Capital is dead labour, that, vampire-like, only lives by sucking living labour, and live the more, the more labour it sucks. The time during which the labourer works, is the time during which the capitalist consumes the labour-power he has purchased of him.
> 
> As time passes, all social rules and all relations between individuals are eroded by a crash economy, avarice drags Pluto himself out of the bowels of the earth. In light of this, we want, no, we NEED a free society, where no one is considered to be superior, no one is left behind and where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity. We need a society without a government, without class divisions and where the workers control the means of production.
> 
> The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. Let the ruling classes tremble at the Communist revolution.


The proletariat have all to loose, like food, medicine, the value of their work, etc as proven by everytime "not true socialism " has been tried


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## Cedric_Eff (Sep 26, 2020)

Bum Driller said:


> Rather a healthy dose of social democracy, to be precise. This is undoubtedly so, and you can see the effects in any Scandinavian country. Sure, this is not a paradise, but I'm quite ready to claim that nowhere else and in no other period of time has there existed as equal, in terms of living conditions between the poor and the rich, societies as currently are in Scandinavian countries.


Or Japan.


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## PaleTay (Sep 26, 2020)

Approx. 59 Robins said:


> A universal basic income is a terrible idea - in pretty much every scenario where it's been trialed, it's led to the majority of people just refusing to work. If you're already getting enough money to live without having to work, there's a lot of jobs that a lot of people just wouldn't want to work.  You wouldn't have issues getting high-paid/high-skill workers or workers that are really passionate about the field they're entering. You'd have issues getting workers for the shitty wagie jobs.
> 
> Working in Amazon to pay the bills is something many people would do. If you need to do it to put a roof over your head and food in your mouth, people will just sigh and bear it.
> Now, working in Amazon to get more money than you currently do? That's something a lot less people would do. Most people would rather have the hours that they'd use working a shit job to do something they're more passionate about.
> ...


But why though? 

Shitty wagie jobs (largely) shouldn't exist as they can be replaced with technology relatively quickly. Most people don't enjoy them, they don't do a good job, and they don't provide a benefit to their clients/customers. It's the same problem that slavery had, the need to employ massive amounts of people led to technology stagnating and resentment of the elite.

I don't think we need a million restaurants, and coffee shops on every block. It's also trivial for me to mow my own lawn and shovel my own driveway, yet it's extremely difficult to live somewhere where I'm able to do those things myself. There's a major lack of high-skill workers and some people would get an opportunity to either improve themselves or chase a high skill job that they otherwise wouldn't. 

I don't think their passions would have to be that fulfilling or they'd have to be that talented for it to be an overall benefit. If you replace a cashier with a self-checkout and they decide to make a shitty Youtube channel, that's still a positive outcome.


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## Fromtheblackdepths (Sep 27, 2020)

PaleTay said:


> But why though?
> 
> Shitty wagie jobs (largely) shouldn't exist as they can be replaced with technology relatively quickly. Most people don't enjoy them, they don't do a good job, and they don't provide a benefit to their clients/customers. It's the same problem that slavery had, the need to employ massive amounts of people led to technology stagnating and resentment of the elite.
> 
> ...


Okay few things.
1. What if people wanted to own their own restaurants or coffee shops and they needed their own workers? Go spend on expensive machines to help with that?
2. Besides school,how else will you give people job experience?
3.So then whose going to fix all that automation if everything is automated.
4. God,are literally saying shitty Youtube channels are a _positive_? For who?


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## PaleTay (Sep 27, 2020)

Fromtheblackdepths said:


> Okay few things.
> 1. What if people wanted to own their own restaurants or coffee shops and they needed their own workers? Go spend on expensive machines to help with that?
> 2. Besides school,how else will you give people job experience?
> 3.So then whose going to fix all that automation if everything is automated.
> 4. God,are literally saying shitty Youtube channels are a _positive_? For who?


1. They'd have to pool or save money the same as they do now. Ideally, they'd have to offer something special in uniqueness or extremely high quality to survive as everyone would learn how to cook. 

Things like gaming cafes would probably do really well as passion projects where people would work there because they enjoyed it, and the high quality restaurants would still be able to profit.

2. Ideally, you'd judge based on talent and not experience. You'd expand school, have independent projects, and have further development of high skill industries throughout the world.

3. Some of it will be self-sustaining, some of it will be low-maintenance. An ever-shrinking workforce of medium-high skill workers would handle the rest.

4. For their 3 fans. They're relatively harmless, whereas in the real world they could be harmful and/or annoying. Even with the people who do horrible things, like Onision, there's a level of containment and consequences you rarely see in the real world which makes it harder for them to continue their actions.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Sep 27, 2020)

This isn't purely a zoomer delusion. It's a delusion that's been around for decades in America, we're just seeing a flare-up of the old infection. Case in point: these songs are from the 1960's.


			https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpetD9Cp6b0w1-vU0f2HDg


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## Eris! (Oct 1, 2020)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> Comrades, it is a great fact that the misery of the working masses has not diminished from 1836 to 2020, and yet this period is unrivaled in the development of its industry and the growth of its commerce. Capital is dead labour, that, vampire-like, only lives by sucking living labour, and live the more, the more labour it sucks. The time during which the labourer works, is the time during which the capitalist consumes the labour-power he has purchased of him.
> 
> As time passes, all social rules and all relations between individuals are eroded by a crash economy, avarice drags Pluto himself out of the bowels of the earth. In light of this, we want, no, we NEED a free society, where no one is considered to be superior, no one is left behind and where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity. We need a society without a government, without class divisions and where the workers control the means of production.
> 
> The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. Let the ruling classes tremble at the Communist revolution.


If you just replaced "Capitalism" with "Industrial Society" you'd sound less like a fag.


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## Milkis (Oct 1, 2020)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> Comrades, it is a great fact that the misery of the working masses has not diminished from 1836 to 2020, and yet this period is unrivaled in the development of its industry and the growth of its commerce. Capital is dead labour, that, vampire-like, only lives by sucking living labour, and live the more, the more labour it sucks. The time during which the labourer works, is the time during which the capitalist consumes the labour-power he has purchased of him.
> 
> As time passes, all social rules and all relations between individuals are eroded by a crash economy, avarice drags Pluto himself out of the bowels of the earth. In light of this, we want, no, we NEED a free society, where no one is considered to be superior, no one is left behind and where mankind is free from oppression and scarcity. We need a society without a government, without class divisions and where the workers control the means of production.
> 
> The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. Let the ruling classes tremble at the Communist revolution.


The Secret Police reports


> *Rebellion!*



The American Communists
have risen.
Reports are coming in of rebel forces in
Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, New York, Baltimore, and Atlanta.

We must rally our force to deal with this.​
Goto​OK​


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## Harbinger of Kali Yuga (Oct 1, 2020)

Capitalism is great if you can live beneath your means for a long time, save up money, start some investments, and take care of your important shit first instead of immediately spending it all on weed, movie tickets for the latest superhero flick, video games, the latesst iPhone, and Funko Pops!.  Most millennials, however, are not capable of this level of discipline, which is why communism appeals to them.  That's why these people allude and refer to corporate intellectual property  all the time including when describing their political philosophy; they are wholly consumerist and, unable to handle their addictions, blame the system instead of themselves.

"Oh but I need to live in this house in the forest that I can't afford by myself because of my mental health you see!  And I can't have a roommate, I have social anxiety!  Fight the system!  Fuck landlords!"


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## Dandelion Eyes (Oct 1, 2020)

Harbinger of Kali Yuga said:


> Most millennials <...>


Are they, though?


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