# I want to Open My Own Store and I have No Capital. Advice?



## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 16, 2021)

I am a loser with 7 years of retail experience but no experience with supply chain or inventory purchasing. I am full of rage at my current position and want to quit and open my own quiet little store where I am the sole employee. I have $2000.00 in capital. With inflation so high, I figure it's a great time to get a low interest loan and get my small business off the ground, then pay the money back with the worthless 100k bucks that we are going to get in the coming years before the Fed raises interest rates.

Any advice? Should I just get a credit card and max it out to pay for the opening expenses like maintenance and inventory? Or is a loan an option? I am obviously expecting to operate on a loss for a while, but I figure if I am the only employee I save a ton on labor costs so it should work out in the long run assuming I can actually sell things.

To be clear: I do not want to make money with this endeavor. I am unmarried with no kids or pets and my expenses are fairly low. I would just like to earn enough to eat and pay rent and keep the store open. I have no interest in expanding, opening other stores, or hiring other employees.


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## KittyGremlin (Dec 16, 2021)

What do you want to sell? Might be a good idea to start off as an e-shop.


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## stupid frog (Dec 16, 2021)

get capital


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## RainwaterDrop (Dec 16, 2021)

KittyGremlin said:


> What do you want to sell? Might be a good idea to start off as an e-shop.


Precisely, easier as you just need some capital to get your stock going on and for advertising. Not needing a venue helps lower your expenses, no need to burn thousands in rent and you just limit your expenses to stock, advertising, shipping and taxes. Less risk that way!


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 16, 2021)

RainwaterDrop said:


> Precisely, easier as you just need some capital to get your stock going on and for advertising. Not needing a venue helps lower your expenses, no need to burn thousands in rent and you just limit your expenses to stock, advertising, shipping and taxes. Less risk that way!


Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.


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## Shig O'nella (Dec 16, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.


Is there a demand for that in your area? What's the competition like?
If there is demand, why isn't it already being filled and is there room for another store? Check around - any local games shops gone out of business recently? Why?
What is your hook? How you going to develop a loyal clientele? More importantly, how you going to keep them? Game nights and tournaments are great fun, but they can get somewhat heated. Pains to organise, too.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

Shig O'nella said:


> Is there a demand for that in your area? What's the competition like?
> If there is demand, why isn't it already being filled and is there room for another store? Check around - any local games shops gone out of business recently? Why?
> What is your hook? How you going to develop a loyal clientele? More importantly, how you going to keep them? Game nights and tournaments are great fun, but they can get somewhat heated. Pains to organise, too.


There's plenty of competition. I can think of at least two other game shops in the area, but it's a pretty urban area. I don't believe any of the local shops have gone out of business even during the pandemic. 

As for a hook or loyal clientele, the only unique thing I have to offer so far is that I do tarot readings, which I think might help me appeal to the female audience a bit more than the average game shop since that's very similar to astrology.


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## Snakebottom (Dec 17, 2021)

Do a tarot on yourself and let the cards tell you how to set up a gaming store then


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## Genichiro (Dec 17, 2021)

As you mentioned, building a client base is more, more important than getting capital. Forget loans at this point, you don't want that debt stuck together with the acrid taste of a failed business. The torment of having idle, still stock on credit is no joke.

Tarot sounds ok, but it be preferable and advantageous if you are willing to develop skills and patience to paint miniatures for example. Develop paint skills, customers come, income and capital for stock.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

Genichiro said:


> As you mentioned, building a client base is more, more important than getting capital. Forget loans at this point, you don't want that debt stuck together with the acrid taste of a failed business. The torment of having idle, still stock on credit is no joke.
> 
> Tarot sounds ok, but it be preferable and advantageous if you are willing to develop skills and patience to paint miniatures for example. Develop paint skills, customers come, income and capital for stock.


Hey that's an interesting idea, thanks!


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## Grub (Dec 17, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.











						So You Want to Start a Game Store? Recommended Resources and Advice | BGG
					

Seeing a number of threads from time to time in which people ask for ideas, tips, and advice for starting a FLGS (Friendly Local Game Store), [url=http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/50560/tales-of-a-former-game-store-manager]having managed one myself and delighting BGGers with my tales[/url],




					boardgamegeek.com


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

Grub said:


> So You Want to Start a Game Store? Recommended Resources and Advice | BGG
> 
> 
> Seeing a number of threads from time to time in which people ask for ideas, tips, and advice for starting a FLGS (Friendly Local Game Store), [url=http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/50560/tales-of-a-former-game-store-manager]having managed one myself and delighting BGGers with my tales[/url],
> ...


Oh , thank you.


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## byuu (Dec 17, 2021)

Why the fuck would you open up a new store in the middle of all the Corona shit?


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

byuu said:


> Why the fuck would you open up a new store in the middle of all the Corona shit?


The middle? It's the tail end now, the only people who care about Rona are the news.


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## byuu (Dec 17, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> The middle? It's the tail end now, the only people who care about Rona are the news.


Maybe it's different where you live but they're really ramping up the restrictions where I live.


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## Dyn (Dec 17, 2021)

You should flush your $2000 down the toilet for all the good it'll do you and then go on welfare lmao.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

Dyn said:


> You should flush your $2000 down the toilet for all the good it'll do you and then go on welfare lmao.


Hey I would rather do that then try and get another job working for someone else at this point.


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## Hippopatumus (Dec 17, 2021)

First thing you do is due dilligence on your business idea, in which you would discover that you are only likely to net $20 per sale of a premium board game, and you're unlikely to sell more than one or two a day. 40 * 30 = $1200.

Lease on a strip mall type location in a shitty area runs 2-3k a month.

Cards are a better business model, but even then you are looking at huge up-front costs to get started with inventory. Most people that get into the game already have a huge collection to bootstrap with.

It seems like most of the people that run stores like this do it because they inherited some cash and get a little bit of a ego boost from running a shop in their particular nerd community. It seems like a really bad idea for someone who doesn't already have a successful revenue stream from something else.


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## Dyn (Dec 17, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hey I would rather do that then try and get another job working for someone else at this point.


Buy one .44 semiwadcutter and then put the rest of your $2,000 on Black 17, you'll have a better chance of making money than your retard shop idea and a plan B for when you lose everything.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

Hippopatumus said:


> Cards are a better business model, but even then you are looking at huge up-front costs to get started with inventory. Most people that get into the game already have a huge collection to bootstrap with.


Alright, that makes sense, so if I specialize more I can be successful with organizing and providing a space for gamers, I would just need to eat a lot of upfront cost and work hard to advertise and get people in the door as soon as possible.


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## Massa's Little Buckie (Dec 17, 2021)

Why do you wanna hang around fat, smelly, autistic nerds lol? 

Oh wait...


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## BlueSpark (Dec 17, 2021)

You're better off selling stuff through Ebay or other such sites than trying to set up a physical location. Look at the stuff that people are buying at stupid prices due to the pandemic and try to build a cheap inventory by buying cheap stuff and selling it high to retards. For example, get some cheap used office PC and put the components in a nicer case and sell it for 150% markup, or see if you can find weight plates, dumbells etc at a local flea market and sell them for 250% what you bought them for.

You could also look into buying old games consoles and videogames at flea markets or Goodwill or whatever and selling them for several times what you bought them for to the literal retards that waste money on that shit.

And do research by searching for common goods like clothing, shampoo and stuff on Ebay and see what the people that are doing well are pricing those things at, and if you see a local store selling those things below that price then buy some up and start selling them at a markup.

Make sure you take decent-looking photos of the stuff you're selling - use nice lighting and make sure the spelling and grammar in your items' descriptions are ok: a lot of sellers don't bother with presentation and making the effort will set you apart.


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## Bad Gateway (Dec 17, 2021)

Amazing how everything in this plan is the opposite of the way you should do it.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

Bad Gateway said:


> Amazing how everything in this plan is the opposite of the way you should do it.


Indeed, but the resources that were shared are helping me develop an idea of how to proceed better.


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## redcent (Dec 17, 2021)

There is no job where you don't work for someone else in some capacity, even in this store you'd have to cater to customers and deal with them and the closer to any sales position the more you have to deal with customers. 

A better idea would be to find a job with a good boss where you can sit at the back and do your own thing without being bothered


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 17, 2021)

redcent said:


> There is no job where you don't work for someone else in some capacity, even in this store you'd have to cater to customers and deal with them and the closer to any sales position the more you have to deal with customers.
> 
> A better idea would be to find a job with a good boss where you can sit at the back and do your own thing without being bothered


I love dealing with customers! Customers are great.


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## redcent (Dec 17, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I love dealing with customers! Customers are great.


Eh. To each their own.


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## Dyn (Dec 17, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Indeed, but the resources that were shared are helping me develop an idea of how to proceed better.


If you really want to run a nerd store and not go immediately bankrupt you'd better go find some drug dealers with a warehouse full of cash they need washed.


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## Kosher Dill (Dec 18, 2021)

BlueSpark said:


> You could also look into buying old games consoles and videogames at flea markets or Goodwill or whatever


Flea markets have already been picked over decades ago. The next frontier is the dead.
The local retro games store around here does a brisk trade in rare games pulled out of estates. Stuff owned by people who died, or left their childhood junk in their parents' attic and then the parents died. They've got a whole rack of Nintendo magazines from the same doomed soul.


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## Freya (Dec 19, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Alright, that makes sense, so if I specialize more I can be successful with organizing and providing a space for gamers, I would just need to eat a lot of upfront cost and work hard to advertise and get people in the door as soon as possible.


How are you going to "eat a lot of upfront cost" with only 2000?


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 19, 2021)

Freya said:


> How are you going to "eat a lot of upfront cost" with only 2000?


As I have been reading things from people and working on my business plan I have decided to try to wait and accrue more starting capital and accept that I can't take advantage of inflation right now.


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## mindlessobserver (Dec 19, 2021)

Just say you need a college loan.

For some reason banks won't give you a small business loan of 20,000 dollars if you are young, broke, and have no income. But say you are going to college and they will give you 100,000 dollars no questions asked.




I am being sarcastic btw. But not really.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 21, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> As for a hook or loyal clientele, the only unique thing I have to offer so far is that I do tarot readings, which I think might help me appeal to the female audience a bit more than the average game shop since that's very similar to astrology.


how is that supposed to help?



byuu said:


> Why the fuck would you open up a new store in the middle of all the Corona shit?


game shops are booming right now  


Hippopatumus said:


> First thing you do is due dilligence on your business idea, in which you would discover that you are only likely to net $20 per sale of a premium board game, and you're unlikely to sell more than one or two a day. 40 * 30 = $1200.


what?  Premium boardgames have a pretty decent margin.  30% are no problem even for a small store, with loyalty bonus for your big spenders.  
they also get pretty expensive once you go for the real nerd shit.  you will also sell alot of them.  
People will also buy them localy if they can look at them before buying.

there are also less premium games people buy all the time as small gifts. thats the bread and butter for most game shops.
also kids games...



Hippopatumus said:


> Cards are a better business model, but even then you are looking at huge up-front costs to get started with inventory. Most people that get into the game already have a huge collection to bootstrap with.


Cards are HORRIBLE.  big spenders are mostly online and there is a crushing race to the bottom most of the time.  Rudy is selling at cost to his Patreons.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> As I have been reading things from people and working on my business plan I have decided to try to wait and accrue more starting capital and accept that I can't take advantage of inflation right now.


well you could start a small webstore as your sidehustle, build contacts, test if games is realy something for you, etc.
You are pretty safe to not lose money if most of your capital is sunk into  high quality nerd games, the only way their prices go is up.
you also should start a blog with the webstore, people want information about stuff they buy AND you need to get to know all those games.

How many of the more premium games have you played? do you like playing those games? what kind of games do you like the most?
You can sell Dune, Terraforming Mars, Gloomhaven and others all day long, but is your heart in it?


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 21, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> How many of the more premium games have you played? do you like playing those games? what kind of games do you like the most?
> You can sell Dune, Terraforming Mars, Gloomhaven and others all day long, but is your heart in it?


I have played Betrayal at the House on the Hill, Resistance, a super long Scooby Doo board game, Arkham Horror, and I love all of it. I really do enjoy sitting down and playing games with other people for like five hours, it's the best.

Haven't tried any of the games you have listed.


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## Niggernerd (Dec 21, 2021)

Pull a Lupin and start stealing valuables


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## MAPK phosphatase (Dec 21, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I love dealing with customers! Customers are great.


I'm glad people like you exist in the world so I don't have to be the one to deal with customers.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 21, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I have played Betrayal at the House on the Hill, Resistance, a super long Scooby Doo board game, Arkham Horror, and I love all of it. I really do enjoy sitting down and playing games with other people for like five hours, it's the best.


Well thats not alot. there are alot of games coming out every year that you need to know in addition to the evergreens and their expansions.
you need mutliple groups if you want to learn whats needed every year.
there is also the issue that the big money is done with autistic stuff that will make a normal persons brain bleed.


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## Flea Man Marbles (Dec 24, 2021)

Don't open a store


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## Miss Misery (Dec 24, 2021)

1. Write business plan.
2. Decide if you still want to do it.
3. Shop business plan around to potential investors.
4. Decide if you still want to do it.
5. Nothing, because you won't want to do it anymore.


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## Psychotron (Dec 24, 2021)

Kosher Dill said:


> Flea markets have already been picked over decades ago. The next frontier is the dead.
> The local retro games store around here does a brisk trade in rare games pulled out of estates. Stuff owned by people who died, or left their childhood junk in their parents' attic and then the parents died. They've got a whole rack of Nintendo magazines from the same doomed soul.


Flea markets are a good way to dip your toes into sales. Different markets will have different demographics, but if you can find one where your the only nerd shit in town, get a cheap folding table, and hawk all the bored nerds who's mother's drug them there to attempt her dream of selling homeopathic water or whatever, you may be able to make some dosh and get some clients.


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## Overly Serious (Dec 28, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:
			
		

> Any advice? Should I just get a credit card and max it out to pay for the opening expenses like maintenance and inventory?


Don't do this. Keep your personal and business finances clearly separated. You should open a separate bank account for your business. If you are using your own money then you can transfer it into the new account as seed capital. If you were in the UK you would be looking to operate as a Sole Trader (by far the simplest way to start a business) or potentially a Limited Company (more hassle and you may need to pay an accountant but if you're smart and patient you could manage it yourself). I'm not sure what the US equivalents would be but the advantage of a Limited Company would be that any loans or lawsuits your business incurred, they'd be attributed to the company not you. However for your set up unless you're taking out a big loan to start the business you could just not bother with that to start. But keeping financials separate is strongly recommended in all circumstances. A business bank account is not expensive.

Proceed incrementally with your business. There's no reason you need to put this off until you have more capital. In fact, I'd advise you not to. Get a URL for your business - a professional domain name is cheap. Start building a presence - Facebook or whatever and make it clear you can order in games for people. This will get you some experience with how to deal with the game companies and let you dip your toe in the water. Worst case scenario the losses you'll be facing will be the cost of a few board games. Etc. What you don't want to be doing is renting a store and starting from nothing. Build your business in every way you can and then when you do find a home for it or have the capital to really get going, you're not starting from no presence and hoping - you're focusing on just setting up the physical presence. Hell, you can rent temporary rooms for gaming events. That should be fairly cheap. Take along a supply of snacks to sell. Again, worst case scenario you're out by $40 of snack food (which you can eat yourself over the next few months). If you can get this stuff off the ground as a local activity then again you are in the situation that you're not renting a place and hoping but renting a place because you need a home for your growing business.

Starting a business is like starting a fire. You don't go from nothing to a big roaring blaze of big logs. You get together some wood shavings and small kindling and you carefully get that growing. And every little flame helps. Once you have those small pieces going you can add the big logs ("rented store, ordering in bulk, etc.").

I don't know your personal circumstances but if you're not in danger of losing where you live or not being able to provide for kids or something, then now absolutely is the time to start working on this stuff. You don't want to start the business and deal with a hundred little things at once. Start doing those little things now - the business bank account, the Facebook page, the email address, your first time ordering games or comics from the manufacturer. Hell, look at what the costs for a stall are at your local market (if you have one) and if you can sink a couple of hundred novels into buying some stock (graphic novels, board games, whatever) without risk maybe a good way to get a feel for things and meet some people and introduce your name and Facebook page and get people aware and interested in an event. Get the small flames burning consistently then USE them to build to a point you can do the big fire.

It takes a long time to get a business going. Whether that's a shop, a restaurant, a service like plumbing. It takes time for word of mouth to spread, interest to grow, cash flow to build. You can start all of that now: *Name, bank account, getting yourself known, small low-risk events or stock buying. *Do these things. Don't use your credit card for this. Look into an actual small loan *if you need to*. You can find ones that defer the start of payback which is good because then you have a nice clear goal of "I must be making $80 a month profit by six months time" or similar. If it's small enough, and if you have family that might be able to stop you getting into a debt spiral over a $1,000 loan (whom you will pay back of course if they do have to bail you out!) then even better. But basically you should be able to take initial steps for less than $100 right now. Then you can dip your toe in the water for the more costly ideas progressively over the next few months (buying stock in the hopes you can sell it, renting a place for gaming nights, whatever).

Good luck. You can start now if you want to.


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## TurdFondler (Dec 28, 2021)

A really good, solid business plan with clear milestones is absolutely necessary. You have to know when to pull the plug or realign a venture. If you're not hitting your sales goals by 4 months, it might make sense to just scuttle the business, sell what you can and pay down the loans so you're not stuck having to file for bankruptcy. 
My biggest concern would be the overhead. Buying stock is one thing, but your reoccurring costs like rent and insurance are another. How much would you have to make a month to keep the lights on? What's the cheapest rent you can find? You'll need to spend money on the space you rent, even if its stupid shit like paint and shelves it still costs money. A brick and mortar store needs a shit ton of capital, you'll need enough to cover your stock, rental down payment and probably rent and loan interest for at least 6 months.

With limited capital I'd focus on online sales of niche products and then have a popup stall at local cons and events.


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## Mister Mint (Dec 28, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.


Unless you live in a particularly large city that can support it and isn't already saturated with competitors - don't do it. Even then, I wouldn't.

Without powerleveling too much, I speak from years of experience here.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> There's plenty of competition. I can think of at least two other game shops in the area, but it's a pretty urban area. I don't believe any of the local shops have gone out of business even during the pandemic.


There we go. Unless you're in a huge metropolis, you're done. More than 2 of these stores aren't needed in most cities and if these stores didn't go under when covid hit then they already have a strong backing and clientele.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> As for a hook or loyal clientele, the only unique thing I have to offer so far is that I do tarot readings


Honestly, opening up a little tarot booth or tarot hotline has a way higher likelihood of success. I looked into doing that after my game store closed.


Some bits of info for you:

If it's just you then you probably won't be open as much as other local stores so you'll have less customers willing to screw around with your possibly weird or short hours. You'll also have less events going on, which will be a turn-off. You're talking about monthly tournaments. Your customers want tournaments several times weekly. Friday Night Magic, Pokemon Saturdays, Yu-Gi-Oh Thursday, I don't know, Cardfight Vanguard Tuesdays? Your tournaments should be happening almost constantly.

The prices you get from your distributors for board/tabletop games will be roughly the same as the prices Amazon sells for either all the time or during frequent sales. The only thing you might make money on is the cards. You're just the place people go to get ideas on what to buy from Amazon for the rest. In fact, your clientele will be so autistic they'll even tell you that.

Even if you don't have 100 other competitors now, you could. People open up these kinds of stores in markets saturated with other stores just like them because they're passionate and autistic. My town has probably 3x more stores than it can feasibly support for this reason.

The companies you do business with are slowly trying to get away from you. Even Cards Against Humanity, who started up a distribution platform claiming to care about local game stores and independent game designers and promised to never sell to big box stores _IMMEDIATELY_ sold out to Target and cut out the little guys once they didn't feel like supporting them anymore. You think you're going to do any better with Wizards of the fucking Coast?

Your goal of having just enough for food and rent is modest, but I can't stress enough how hard it is to ever sell enough product to just pay the rent, utilities, brick & mortar upkeep, marketing, stock replenishment, etc etc let alone your own food, rent, and minimal expenses on top of that.

If you want some advice on suppliers, events, tips & tricks or whatever, shoot me a message, I did this stuff for years so I'll point you in the right direction. Ultimately though, the best advice I can give is to walk away, the FLGS is dead.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 28, 2021)

Mister Mint said:


> Unless you live in a particularly large city that can support it and isn't already saturated with competitors - don't do it. Even then, I wouldn't.
> 
> Without powerleveling too much, I speak from years of experience here.
> 
> ...


I'll take your advice. If you think the area is saturated, I wont do it.


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## Mister Mint (Dec 28, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> I'll take your advice. If you think the area is saturated, I wont do it.


I'd say unless the population in your city is 200000 or more, 2 stores is the limit unless you're doing something wildly different.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 28, 2021)

Mister Mint said:


> I'd say unless the population in your city is 200000 or more, 2 stores is the limit unless you're doing something wildly different.


Without PLing too much, the population of my area is near or greater than 1 million.


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## Mister Mint (Dec 28, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Without PLing too much, the population of my area is near or greater than 1 million.


oh. Well then you probably have more wiggle room as far as competitors then. Maybe do some recon, go play at an existing store and see if you can weasel some info out of the players on how much they spend or just look around and see how busy it is.
The rest still stands though, it's unfortunately a dying business.


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## TurdFondler (Dec 28, 2021)

The only hobby store in my area that's opened in the last few years is one that operates mostly online, has a small bit of space in an industrial building and imports shit that you literally cannot get unless you speak Japanese. Unless you've got either an incredible line on goods and can undercut everyone or sell stuff no one else can get, I wouldn't bother.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 28, 2021)

You can get a resin 3D printer and print miniatures for people.You can try to advertise at the current card shops. They can send you the 3D file to print so you can avoid getting caught in IP issues. You can tell them were to look, though. There are so many tabletop 3D files online.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Dec 28, 2021)

Lol, just make some NFTS and sell them. I'll probably make my rent money selling a fancy triangle over and over again.


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## TurdFondler (Dec 28, 2021)

Neigh said:


> You can get a resin 3D printer and print miniatures for people.You can try to advertise at the current card shops. They can send you the 3D file to print so you can avoid getting caught in IP issues. You can tell them were to look, though. There are so many tabletop 3D files online.


Terrain, DM screens and ttrpg boards might be a niche to look into


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## TheTrumanShow (Dec 28, 2021)

Likely not gonna happen. Try renting a strawberry wagon/local specialty thing and aim for a recreational area newly built or that does not have such a thing yet. Seasonal work  can make some money. Or get involved in the festival business and selling food in them. Or places like burning man, what ever. At least for someone with low capital.



> Alright, that makes sense, so if I specialize more I can be successful with organizing and providing a space for gamers, I would just need to eat a lot of upfront cost and work hard to advertise and get people in the door as soon as possible.



Don't people already have those kind of spaces, and they are free or membership based?
Maybe you can get a local business grant or get support from the local government culture department or what ever? Create a non-profit and look for grants?

Also mixing board game café with tarot reading just seems like "this is my personal space here, come and enjoy it if youre like me".  Nobody would invest in this. Im still confused at if your focus is a community space with boardgames that sells some boardgames but is more of a service provider or if your place is a shop with some hangout space.

I have limited knowledge of these places but the boardgame/gaming cafés I know of had huge capital investments and are mostly bars or cafés appealing to nerds but where the nerding is secondary. The ones that aren´t are non-profit or have someone with a very good hook into a specific community.

The shops that sell the stuff have been in it since before the dawn of the internet, or at least it feels like it. They tend to sell but also buy and trade, have large inventories and look really impressive even for someone like me who isnt interested that much.



Overly Serious had some good advice at the level where you should pay him royalty.
The only thing I might disagree with (but I dont know enough to dip into this really) is that you could possibly compete as a rando-mini store online selling boardgames that are available on the market in general. Agian youd have to have a hook in with a creator, artist, community to start that way, IMO.


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## JaneThough (Dec 28, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> There's plenty of competition. I can think of at least two other game shops in the area, but it's a pretty urban area. I don't believe any of the local shops have gone out of business even during the pandemic.
> 
> As for a hook or loyal clientele, the only unique thing I have to offer so far is that I do tarot readings, which I think might help me appeal to the female audience a bit more than the average game shop since that's very similar to astrology.


"I am going to open a store and the only demographic research I have done is on the chans"


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## Manul Otocolobus (Dec 28, 2021)

Kosher Dill said:


> Flea markets have already been picked over decades ago. The next frontier is the dead.
> The local retro games store around here does a brisk trade in rare games pulled out of estates. Stuff owned by people who died, or left their childhood junk in their parents' attic and then the parents died. They've got a whole rack of Nintendo magazines from the same doomed soul


Until I read down further I thought you were seriously advocating grave robbing.


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## Kosher Dill (Dec 28, 2021)

Manul Otocolobus said:


> Until I read down further I thought you were seriously advocating grave robbing.


That's known to be a bad idea, the pyramid of Tutankhansoomer is riddled with traps. (and yes, they're gay.)


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## libRT (Dec 28, 2021)

The problem with getting a loan to start a business during high inflation is that your business will not just have to survive but also thrive. you're picking a venture that will be one of the first that people decide to cut spending on when costs do increase. Thinking that just because the value of goods rise during inflation, it'll be easier to pay off is dumb, the people who you want to part your money with will be more frugal especially on products/services that are not necessary.
You want a brick and mortar store, during covid times, thinking this is the end of covid (lol yeah sure). Even without covid, brick and mortar stores were suffering. Maybe if it doubled as a bar/cafe or providing necessary goods/services alongside but that will push cost/price up.
Somehow you're gonna have to be able to compete with online stores even though you're not shifting nearly as much stock.

TL;DR A brick and mortar games shop is a retarded idea even without covid. Doubly so with a loan during high inflation. I doubt you'll get accepted for a loan you require, Your business plan might give them a chuckle though.


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## murdered meat bag (Dec 28, 2021)

do you have wholesalers lined up? do you know their inventory levels?


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## Overly Serious (Dec 29, 2021)

@Mister Mint sounds like he has some very relevant experience and good advice. You should listen to him OP. But, and this is my own opinion, you should not necessarily stop. For one, there's a big difference between gambling your livelihood and bankruptcy and risking something you can afford to lose. So @libRT is correct about taking out a loan and having to stay on top of it at a time when people may be cutting back on luxury spending. But lets assume you have followed my advice and you've done preliminary work in setting up the business legally, email address, facebook, etc. All low-cost stuff. Now two scenarios. (a) you take out a loan of $500 to buy boardgame or graphic novel inventory or such. (b) you take out $20,000 loan to pay rent on a new store for six months. I'm fairly confident libRT's advice is more leaning towards assuming the latter scenario (and is therefore *very* good advice) rather than the former. Because the former is a situation where you should be able to recover from a $500 loss It's an affordable risk. To build a business you usually have to take affordable risks (unless you have the luxury of some guaranteed income stream and are starting the business to take advantage of that). The trick is to work iteratively.

Also note another important difference between the two scenarios. Buying in a small stock provides you with assets. You may lose money but hopefully it wont be all of it even it you have to sell at a slight loss. But the store rent provides you no way to recoup the money - it's not an asset.

That's why despite Mr Mint evidently knowing a whole Hell of a lot more about this market than I do, I think you may have drawn the wrong conclusion from it (and not necessarily what he intended you to draw). Look at ways you can build up a presence and get the business side of things all understood and out of the way. Be open to partnering. libRT mentioned about gaming cafes - that's again pushing you into the bigger loan/bigger risk category but maybe there's a local cafe already there that would be open to you partnering with them for regular game nights if they're not normally open late, or putting up a bookshelf of games that can be used for a fee or give the cafe a cut of sales. I love the ideas @Neigh and @TurdFondler had about 3D printing or terrain. My point is that you need to develop a businessman mindset and that's all about seeking opportunities.

Mindset #1: "I have this one big idea and I will invest heavily in it." << Big risk. Quite probably fail.
Mindset #2: "There's an opportunity. Here's another one. This idea might work. That's worth a try at least." << Smaller risk. Likely get a mix of successes and failures.

If you were a bong and of a certain generation, I'd give you a role model of:


But I don't think you're either so this will mean nothing to you. Point is you need to approach building a business like climbing rock face - look for as many handholds and crevices as possible, choose the most promising and if you're over-extending yourself be mindful of risk. Opportunistic. Every small success will teach you things and provide you contacts. You mentioned tarot readings - throw them in there.

Two more role models that you will have heard of:

Remember, when Johnny only had one student and had already rented out the dojo space and then started wandering around town handing out flyers? Johnny was an idiot. Don't copy that. But Johnny also learned from his mistakes and was persistent. Do be like that. Johnny is a badass.

Finally, Joker - another businessman.



Joker sets fire to his money. Don't copy that. But Joker also knows how to negotiate  - do be like that. Be very clear that you're in business. That doesn't mean being unfriendly. And it doesn't mean you can never do a favour for someone. And it doesn't mean you can't do some kind of free event / publicity if you want to. But as a general rule, "never do it for free" is very valuable advice. People's expectations that you'll just run off that 3D model at cost for them, that they don't need to pay for the club, or whatever can and will sink you. Gaming circles are especially prone to moochers. You love what you do but it's okay to be in it for the money, too.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 30, 2021)

Mister Mint said:


> The prices you get from your distributors for board/tabletop games will be roughly the same as the prices Amazon sells for either all the time or during frequent sales. The only thing you might make money on is the cards. You're just the place people go to get ideas on what to buy from Amazon for the rest. In fact, your clientele will be so autistic they'll even tell you that.


Boardgames have a good margin, unlike Cards. 
the cards are sold on the internet for cheap and one of the biggest Seller is a youtuber thats pretty open with his costs and prices, there is no money to make and even rudy makes his money from selling old boxes(hoarding them needs alot of capital) and his patreon fees.

only yugioh people buy in shops, they are mostly lower class with some brain damage and every single one of them got scammed on the net by some sellers.



Mister Mint said:


> The companies you do business with are slowly trying to get away from you. Even Cards Against Humanity, who started up a distribution platform claiming to care about local game stores and independent game designers and promised to never sell to big box stores _IMMEDIATELY_ sold out to Target and cut out the little guys once they didn't feel like supporting them anymore. You think you're going to do any better with Wizards of the fucking Coast?


what big box store is willing to pick up any more special boardgames? 




libRT said:


> you're picking a venture that will be one of the first that people decide to cut spending on when costs do increase.


The Target audience for boardgames is people in their late 20s or above with much disposable income and no kids..



Neigh said:


> You can get a resin 3D printer and print miniatures for people.You can try to advertise at the current card shops. They can send you the 3D file to print so you can avoid getting caught in IP issues. You can tell them were to look, though. There are so many tabletop 3D files online.


building your business on using 200$ equipment for the easy part of make the models is not a good idea.


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## Doc Cassidy (Dec 30, 2021)

Your best bet would be to open a game store but use it as a front to sell shitty drugs and child porn. People that play tabletop games love shitty drugs and child porn so it will be a rousing success and you'll be rich in no time.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> building your business on using 200$ equipment for the easy part of make the models is not a good idea.


$300 for the cheap Elegoo model. Realistically you're looking at $1000 minimum. FDM and SLA are very different and a $200 Ender 3 won't cut it.  Making the models isn't easy and there is demand for them, especially custom models. People were resin printing Warhammer figurines due to cost and Games Workshop was on a warpath getting the files removed from the internet.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 30, 2021)

Neigh said:


> $300 for the cheap Elegoo model. Realistically you're looking at $1000 minimum. FDM and SLA are very different and a $200 Ender 3 won't cut it. Making the models isn't easy and there is demand for them, especially custom models. People were resin printing Warhammer figurines due to cost and Games Workshop was on a warpath getting the files removed from the internet.


Is there a market for local for profit 3d printing shops? also how does the business model behind it looks like? you need a well ventilated room that you have to rent if you dont have one already and its alot of work to get the print ready to sell.   you cant make much profit per model and you will not build a  loyal customerbase because the more people get into it, the more likely they are to buy a printer. 

you can maybe feed your face with designing custom models, but you need alot of skill for that, just making generic ones will force you into competition with indians on fivr.


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## Mr. Pestilence (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> Is there a market for local for profit 3d printing shops? also how does the business model behind it looks like? you need a well ventilated room that you have to rent if you dont have one already and its alot of work to get the print ready to sell.   you cant make much profit per model and you will not build a  loyal customerbase because the more people get into it, the more likely they are to buy a printer.
> 
> you can maybe feed your face with designing custom models, but you need alot of skill for that, just making generic ones will force you into competition with indians on fivr.


If you’re not a retard about it, yeah. I wouldn’t recommend putting your printers into producing miniatures though and  expect profits. Way too many other people are doing it and probably better than you ever could with budget machines. 
You’re much better off pitching your 3D printing services to local body shops, esp ones that do restoration. You can make serious bank reproducing out of production and custom parts.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> Is there a market for local for profit 3d printing shops? also how does the business model behind it looks like? you need a well ventilated room that you have to rent if you dont have one already and its alot of work to get the print ready to sell.   you cant make much profit per model and you will not build a  loyal customerbase because the more people get into it, the more likely they are to buy a printer.
> 
> you can maybe feed your face with designing custom models, but you need alot of skill for that, just making generic ones will force you into competition with indians on fivr.


I think a printer would work if you had a potential local customer base. Printing the models the customer provides along with a selection you have obtained can work. The important part is not checking if the models they provide are pirated. They can save a lot of money having warhammer models printed. You can pay someone like shapeways to print it but I dont know the price or quality. A resin printer at a physical card shop would probably have a better return on investment.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 30, 2021)

Mr. Pestilence said:


> You’re much better off pitching your 3D printing services to local body shops, esp ones that do restoration. You can make serious bank reproducing out of production and custom parts.


you sir are a smart guy. but, dont they already have supplier? i already have some 3d printed parts in my card, its half the price as original VW parts and cant be worse quality.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> you sir are a smart guy. but, dont they already have supplier? i already have some 3d printed parts in my card, its half the price as original VW parts and cant be worse quality.


There are some parts too niche for a manufacturer to bother designing. The issue is designing a compatible part. I was offered money to design and print a exhaust cover for a motorcycle that was no longer produced. The issue is the part is a strange shape so I would need the actual part and a lot of time in fusion 360 to reproduce just for one customer. I'd have to make a storefront for them and upgrade my printer to nylon if I wanted to capitalize on it. You need to be a designer with a printer to attract workshops.
3D printed parts are usually weaker as well.


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## Mr. Pestilence (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> you sir are a smart guy. but, dont they already have supplier? i already have some 3d printed parts in my card, its half the price as original VW parts and cant be worse quality.


That’s why I said out of supply parts. You’ve got over 100 years of different makes and models that no one supplies parts for anymore. Take for instance someone needs an interior piece for their 1952 Stude Starlight. You’re  gonna be hard pressed to find that interior piece nowadays NOS or repopped. While it doesn’t make sense to produce and model everything, its more viable to model stuff out when you get an order. Afterwards you can throw that part up on a webstore and make passive income thru printing on demand.

Also, never ever let go of your STLs


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## Stoneheart (Dec 30, 2021)

Neigh said:


> There are some parts too niche for a manufacturer to bother designing. The issue is designing a compatible part. I was offered money to design and print a exhaust cover for a motorcycle that was no longer produced. The issue is the part is a strange shape so I would need the actual part and a lot of time in fusion 360 to reproduce just for one customer. I'd have to make a storefront for them and upgrade my printer to nylon if I wanted to capitalize on it. You need to be a designer with a printer to attract workshops.
> 3D printed parts are usually weaker as well.


yeah, but thats some major investment for somebody who never did any 3d design.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 30, 2021)

Thats why you stick with them providing pirated figurines or sending them to a designer.


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## Mister Mint (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> Boardgames have a good margin, unlike Cards.


This is true in theory.

A good example of the problem is D&D books. MSRP on most of the full-sized books is $49.95. If I remember right, I think my price was around $25-30. As far as margins go that's downright hefty, more than most board games.

The problem is the old maxim that "things are only worth what people will pay for them." Amazon consistently sells these for $22 - $35. Only the most ardent FLGS dickriders are going to cuck themselves out of $25 for no reason. My options are either that I keep it at MSRP and nobody buys it, except maybe rarely out of convenience if they want to play that particular scenario in-store at that particular moment, or I match Amazon's prices and use them as a loss leader, or I don't carry them at all and make my store look shitty not carrying a flagship item.

Cards have an okay margin, but their real value lies in:
a. Community building. People will go to your store for the cards and hang out in order to keep playing cards. They'll keep buying shit (hopefully) while they're there.
b. Resale. Sell the packs at retail, buy back the cards they don't want at 30% or less of value, sell the cards to people that want them at market value.
c. Whales. People will buy cases and spend north of $1k on every release they think will benefit them (which then gets largely sold back to you for a song and bought again)

A lot of the money a game store makes is less selling games and more being an autism casino.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 30, 2021)

Mister Mint said:


> Cards have an okay margin, but their real value lies in:
> a. Community building. People will go to your store for the cards and hang out in order to keep playing cards. They'll keep buying shit (hopefully) while they're there.
> b. Resale. Sell the packs at retail, buy back the cards they don't want at 30% or less of value, sell the cards to people that want them at market value.
> c. Whales. People will buy cases and spend north of $1k on every release they think will benefit them (which then gets largely sold back to you for a song and bought again)
> ...


What about memberships? I've seem a few places offer those.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 30, 2021)

Neigh said:


> Thats why you stick with them providing pirated figurines or sending them to a designer.


like i said, those guys have their own printer or acces to one.



Mister Mint said:


> A good example of the problem is D&D books. MSRP on most of the full-sized books is $49.95. If I remember right, I think my price was around $25-30. As far as margins go that's downright hefty, more than most board games.


thats to mainstream. people will buy it online or just pirate it like normal people.



Mister Mint said:


> The problem is the old maxim that "things are only worth what people will pay for them." Amazon consistently sells these for $22 - $35. My options are either that I keep it at MSRP and nobody buys it, except maybe rarely out of convenience if they want to play that particular scenario in-store at that particular moment, or I match Amazon's prices and use them as a loss leader, or I don't carry them at all and make my store look shitty not carrying a flagship item.


the problem with dnd and pathfinder is that only low information people and total nerds buy them. both groups will use the internet to buy if you dont provide something else.
my local store makes more with dice than with dnd books, they only sell to new people and nerds that want the book right now and dont realy care about the price.



Mister Mint said:


> a. Community building. People will go to your store for the cards and hang out in order to keep playing cards. They'll keep buying shit (hopefully) while they're there.
> b. Resale. Sell the packs at retail, buy back the cards they don't want at 30% or less of value, sell the cards to people that want them at market value.
> c. Whales. People will buy cases and spend north of $1k on every release they think will benefit them (which then gets largely sold back to you for a song and bought again)


Resale? thats alot of capital you need for that. and whales, they have to be real stupid to not buy from rudy.
selling single packs is the real deal, but you only can do that if you have kids with rich parents around. everyone else buys a case or box and wants cheap prices from you.



Mister Mint said:


> A lot of the money a game store makes is less selling games and more being an autism casino.


just cultivate a bunch of autists hooked on german style boardgames.  Kosmos will sell you most of their european releases in the Us, and you can catch alot of nerds with their games. 
I dont know if you still are in the business, but buy red cathedral when it goes out of print, it will be a classic,  its a very good game, selling very well and the price is a joke.


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## Kendall Motor Oil (Dec 30, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> like i said, those guys have their own printer or acces to one.


They do not. Not many 3D designers have expensive resin printers. They design 3D objects for other digital or mass market uses. 
Having a printer at a physical location increases the appeal. 3D printing in general isn't as easy as it's made out to be and an individual can't justify buying a $1000+ printer to print just several figurines.


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## Stoneheart (Dec 30, 2021)

Neigh said:


> 3D printing in general isn't as easy as it's made out to be and an individual can't justify buying a $1000+ printer to print just several figurines.


yeah but a 300§ printer is good enough for that and you get your moneys worth from it with just one army.


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## Coleslaw (Dec 31, 2021)

Mister Mint said:


> I'd say unless the population in your city is 200000 or more, 2 stores is the limit unless you're doing something wildly different.


Is the 2020 census data out yet?


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## Overly Serious (Dec 31, 2021)

One big risk with the 3D printing miniatures which wasn't mentioned but I consider real, is the possibility of a well-off kid just doing it for free or cost. Much like how when DeviantArt and all its ilk came along professional artists suddenly found themselves competing with NEETS and college kids and people living with their parents who didn't have to make a living at all but just thought it was neat that someone would pay them $10 for their drawing. Queered the whole market.

3D printers are cheap enough that some kid is going to buy one (or get given one) and then just say "hey, yeah, I'll print off that Space Marine for you" or whatever. Meanwhile, you're trying to do it for money.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Jan 1, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.


I believe there is a place in Charlottesville, VA, available that used to be owned by a jew named Michael Snyder.


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## Stoneheart (Jan 4, 2022)

Overly Serious said:


> 3D printers are cheap enough that some kid is going to buy one (or get given one) and then just say "hey, yeah, I'll print off that Space Marine for you" or whatever. Meanwhile, you're trying to do it for money.


dont you have maker clubs or repair cafes in the us?  non profit with all kinds of cool stuff to build and repair, 3d printers have been a staple in those places for years now.


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## Retink (Mar 1, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.


I'm super late to this but, gaming stores are a massive money sink and you're almost always running a pseudo-pawn shop with them as you'll probably be doing a lot of buying and selling of collectables and old games. 

Check out the videos by this guy, especially this 3 parter, because while he's a bit gimmicky and goofy this series is very good at capturing what the business can be like for a lot of people. Don't take it as gospel, as he's often wrong, but it's a good general idea of what you're getting into.













One thing you can try is to contact some businesses in the area and see if they will sell you product for cheap, or just hunt online for big discounts on products, and then find a bar or something to let you host an event on a slow night for the bar, ideally having the bar offer some kind of incentive for the people in the event such as a slight discount on food or drinks as it's bringing in costumers on what's otherwise a slow night. 

Essentially you'd be looking at doing something like buying a few sealed boxes of Magic cards and holding drafts, where you can get a box for under 100$ that contains 36 packs, then sell a draft set of 3 packs for 10$ meaning that each box nets you 20$+ . The lower you can get the box cost, the higher profit you can make, but you're not really there to make money off of just the drafts, you're gaining a reputation and building a customer base. If you're getting enough interest you can start buying more product, thus getting your cost down, selling product directly to people as you might be able to get it to a good enough price for them to be happy to buy from you, and so forth. 

The nice thing about a lot of card product is that if you keep it sealed, it generally doesn't lose value and can actually gain substantial value so your inventory isn't dead as long as it's sealed and in some cases can actually be a boon down the road if a product sells out and then sees a price spike.  A good example of this is something like Battle Bond in MtG, as it was selling for 90$ or less on sale in a lot of big stores when it was first released but quickly jumped to 150$ after. Now a little under 4 years later it's 300-400$ a box off eBay. That won't always be the case, but generally product won't go too far bellow the 90$ a box mark and even if it does you can find creative ways of selling it with things like drafting as an option, because even if you do 4 packs for 10$, that's still 90$ for those 36 packs of Dragon's Maze which is a set that stayed as low as 74$ a sealed box for years after release. Or you can do chaos drafts where it's a mix of different packs, some expensive and some cheap to average out the cost of the different packs. 

It's a really grindy way of going about things, but it's very low risk as you're only really putting in a few hundred dollars for the initial product and skip all of the overhead. You do have to deal with inconsistent venues and low returns but it's something to keep in mind.


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## Stoneheart (Mar 1, 2022)

Retink said:


> Check out the videos by this guy,


Rudy buys massive amounts of boxes and sell them for cost for his patreon subs. 
the stuff he cant sell he holds for some time and selling it later for profit. you need very good credit and alot of money to front that kind of operation.




Retink said:


> One thing you can try is to contact some businesses in the area and see if they will sell you product for cheap, or just hunt online for big discounts on products, and then find a bar or something to let you host an event on a slow night for the bar, ideally having the bar offer some kind of incentive for the people in the event such as a slight discount on food or drinks as it's bringing in costumers on what's otherwise a slow night.


bars dont like nerds, they drink little and try to molest every woman around.




Retink said:


> Essentially you'd be looking at doing something like buying a few sealed boxes of Magic cards and holding drafts, where you can get a box for under 100$ that contains 36 packs, then sell a draft set of 3 packs for 10$ meaning that each box nets you 20$+ . The lower you can get the box cost, the higher profit you can make, but you're not really there to make money off of just the drafts, you're gaining a reputation and building a customer base. If you're getting enough interest you can start buying more product, thus getting your cost down, selling product directly to people as you might be able to get it to a good enough price for them to be happy to buy from you, and so forth.


they want you to have offical drafts and those arent cheap to run...




Retink said:


> It's a really grindy way of going about things, but it's very low risk as you're only really putting in a few hundred dollars for the initial product and skip all of the overhead. You do have to deal with inconsistent venues and low returns but it's something to keep in mind.


getting the cool new boardgames shipped in from germany and printing your own translated booklet is wy safer. half the games dont come to the us and nerds want the european first printing.


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## Retink (Mar 1, 2022)

Stoneheart said:


> Rudy buys massive amounts of boxes and sell them for cost for his patreon subs.
> the stuff he cant sell he holds for some time and selling it later for profit. you need very good credit and alot of money to front that kind of operation.


That is Rudy's business model, but he doesn't just discuss that and in the three part series I posted it's specifically about LGSes and their pitfalls. Though in either case you should never blindly follow a video, rather use it as a general suggestion.



Stoneheart said:


> bars dont like nerds, they drink little and try to molest every woman around.
> 
> 
> they want you to have offical drafts and those arent cheap to run...


The reason I mentioned the bar thing as several game stores I've been to had some kind of set up with a nearby bar to do drafts and drafts, some bars went as far as to make a few gimmicky drinks for the drafters. They generally don't want people playing there on a busy night like a Friday, but on a slower night they don't care one way or the other and will work with game stores like any other function or event.

Some people will want sanctioned events but some are just cool playing regardless. If you have enough interest you can set up sanctioned events as time goes on.



Stoneheart said:


> getting the cool new boardgames shipped in from germany and printing your own translated booklet is wy safer. half the games dont come to the us and nerds want the european first printing.


Great, do both. Pigeonholing yourself into one thing isn't particularly great, and the nice thing about not having a ton of overhead is that you can try out different things and see which ones work best for you. The nice thing about being the guy who makes events and things like that is that you get to make contacts with people who are probably interested in things outside of just the draft or whatever and would be more receptive to you pitching them some foreign game. You can even do a separate night to introduce them to some out of the way board games that you can sell to them if they enjoy them. Though don't spread yourself too thin or over invest too early on too many things. 

The most important thing isn't the product necessarily, it's having a customer base and having a good standing with them as they are the people who pay you as well as introduce you to others who are looking for products. A good product is very important as well, but there are tons of products out there and it's good to have some ability to pivot as you never know when there will be a draught of good board games or a run of MtG sets that suck and don't sell.


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## Cedric_Eff (Mar 2, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> The middle? It's the tail end now, the only people who care about Rona are the news.


It's never over homeboy.


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## BelUwUga (Mar 2, 2022)

The problem with loans is for any meaningful amount there must be collateral to borrow against. You can get some wiggle room by accepting conditions, but then you may as well be looking for an equity investor. The problem with that is they will eventually want to cash-out, and that almost always invariably leads to the kinds of problems you sound like you are trying to avoid. That doesn't mean there aren't options though. First and foremost a physical location now is asking for a BK. You can do e-commerce pretty much purely on variable cost (incurred when sales are made) to get some more money in the war chest before you go big. Drop shipping _can_ work but it is not as simple as it first appears and there are a lot of scams along these lines. In summary drop shipping means that while you broker the sale, the goods go directly from your supplier to the customer. There's a proper way to do it that you cannot afford that isn't without its own risks, but there's some hacky things you can do for boot strapping.

To start with you're going to be somewhat agnostic on price and product. Nothing too weird. Price extremes on either end are problematic. If you're making %500 profit on a $0.01 item, you still need to find a lot of volume to live off of that. Likewise you don't want to drop $2K on one item you have no guarantee of selling. What you are looking for is unmet demand. A simple one is niche-y products sold through specialty shops/sites that do not have listings on Amazon/Ebay/Etsy. Way too many people only look for things on one site and you can push a 20-30% premium without absolutely killing sales. Understand when fees, taxes, and logistics add up you're going to be paying about %15 for the privilege. Add a few days buffer to your lead times and you're off to the races.

Customer places order through your listing.
You take the customer's information and place an order with the vendor you have found. Monitor tracking and proactively cancel/handle issues. Positive feedback and reputation is far more valuable than the margin from any one sale.
Bank the profits. (Never trust a marketplace to store any of your data/listings. I know of companies that have BK'd because Ebay borked their listings and they needed to start again from scratch/)
It is not the most efficient, or the most profitable, but it is virtually free and when you've got the hang of it you can make dozens of listings in a day. More importantly you can build a fairly robust catalog of these listings to provide some revenue quickly. You can then use that as life-support to find scripts/processes to automate, payment processors with lower fees, and vendors you're placing a lot of orders with who you may want to approach for a negotiated deal* in the near future. This should get you closer to 10% on fees or breaking into the single-digits while you are lucky.

When you can commit to spending more than $1500/yr on shipping open accounts with UPS/Fedex (kinda meaningless to do it beforehand now, AMZ/Ebay merchants get discounts consistent with base corporate rates). You won't get amazing discounts or VIP treatment but it lays the foundation for it and is an improvement. $5K-10K year is when you'll probably be hearing from account representatives that aren't just new-hires cold-calling. You don't need both at this point and negotiated discounts are based on volume. Since you're not a brand-new customer you can draw on your own experiences to choose who to go with (it really doesn't matter).

You want to preferably lock-in one of your higher-volume suppliers ASAP. It may require stocking certain items at certain levels, but that could be as simple as some wire shelves in your house. The sooner you can develop at least one good working relationship, the better. Small business general use "trade references" from other reputable companies in lieu of credit checks.

The end-goal is to eventually have your own website, logistics apparatus (avoid 3PLs like the plague), and payment processor accounts. The lack of expenses from a physical location will help you build out this infrastructure and start getting the money together to actually get a more favorable loan. A down payment, trade references, sales history, etc, is all going to go a very long way when it comes time to borrow. The interest will be a lot more affordable than having little more to assure them than an idea.

This is kind of complex, but if you don't have the gumption to self-teach I would suggest you reconsider. If you need clarification or have any questions just let me know and I'd be happy to help.


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## Mister Mint (Mar 2, 2022)

Be a trailblazer. Fuck game store/bar, be the first game store/strip club. You teach your girls to give those autists a little GFE and they'll keep coming back for more.


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## Retink (Mar 2, 2022)

Mister Mint said:


> Be a trailblazer. Fuck game store/bar, be the first game store/strip club. You teach your girls to give those autists a little GFE and they'll keep coming back for more.


So a maid cafe or host club with more scantly clad employees?


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## HOMO FOR LIFE (Mar 4, 2022)

Lmao ur fucked


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## Tuturesque (Mar 7, 2022)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Hm. Well, I want to open a game shop that involves selling board games, tabletop games and cards. Part of the appeal is having a space for people to gather together and play, and holding monthly tournaments for them.


This sounds very nice, and reminds me of the grandpa from yugioh. The pfp fits pretty well with that huh. 

Another person suggested selling NFTs, though I prefer to now call them digital collectibles, since everyone is so saturated with the term NFT. The way I view it, that will be a very interesting market over these next 5-10 years. They had been attempted before in the late 90s and early 2000s, and more recently with things like playstation trophies or TF2 hats, but what makes it interesting now is that it is so easy for anyone to create their own digital collectibles and its become a viable business for a lot more people. Most of the infrastructure is already built and its so easy to set up a website now.


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## Stoneheart (Mar 7, 2022)

BelUwUga said:


> Customer places order through your listing.
> You take the customer's information and place an order with the vendor you have found. Monitor tracking and proactively cancel/handle issues. Positive feedback and reputation is far more valuable than the margin from any one sale.
> Bank the profits. (Never trust a marketplace to store any of your data/listings. I know of companies that have BK'd because Ebay borked their listings and they needed to start again from scratch/)


Drop-shipping is stupid and you should kill yourself for suggesting it.


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## BelUwUga (Mar 7, 2022)

Stoneheart said:


> Drop-shipping is stupid and you should kill yourself for suggesting it.


Drop-shipping is stupid if you go through the traditional routes. Vendors simply want to externalize sales costs and they have fees/margins designed to eat you alive. I'd agree with necking myself if I was offering this as that "one secret" retailers don't want you to know. Except you'll notice that's not what I did. I pointed out how to actually use it to be profitable and bootstrap your way to affording other strategies. It is fast to establish, costs are low, and the biggest input is effort. That's usually what's in the most abundance for someone starting out.


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## Stoneheart (Mar 7, 2022)

BelUwUga said:


> I pointed out how to actually use it to be profitable and bootstrap your way to affording other strategies. It is fast to establish, costs are low, and the biggest input is effort. That's usually what's in the most abundance for someone starting out.


that doesnt work with items that are hard to get and only are sold to real shops.  thats the main reason why most good games are not cheap to get anywhere.


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## BelUwUga (Mar 7, 2022)

Stoneheart said:


> that doesnt work with items that are hard to get and only are sold to real shops.  thats the main reason why most good games are not cheap to get anywhere.


It's almost like I specifically mentioned it isn't universally applicable:


BelUwUga said:


> To start with you're going to be somewhat agnostic on price and product. Nothing too weird. Price extremes on either end are problematic. If you're making %500 profit on a $0.01 item, you still need to find a lot of volume to live off of that. Likewise you don't want to drop $2K on one item you have no guarantee of selling. What you are looking for is unmet demand. A simple one is niche-y products sold through specialty shops/sites that do not have listings on Amazon/Ebay/Etsy.


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## Sophisticated Simpleton (Mar 8, 2022)

Bulq.com
Purchase bulk boxes and even pallets of different stuff, from furniture to computers. You have to take into account the Regular shipping and the Freight shipping cost, but this can net you profits if you sell at retail or near.


> Unless you live in a particularly large city that can support it and isn't already saturated with competitors - don't do it. Even then, I wouldn't.


Would it be a good idea to open a game shop near a major college/university?  They're practically cities nowadays, and you can definitely attract a young millennial audience, advertise a few wifus or something. Many a nerd (especially with those federal aid funds) wont mind going using the university bus to go to your shop.


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## Cup Noodle (Mar 9, 2022)

If you have been working seven years in retail that tells me that you likely have no skills.  The last part tells me that you have no ambition.  The wage cage is the best place for you OP.  At least you aren't a NEET.


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