# Is gender a social construct?



## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

TL;DR: yes but with some stipulations

Let me start by saying that, just because something's a social construct, that does not mean that you can identify as "whatever-the-fuck" and call that valid. Social constructs are constructed by society; hence the name. "Civilization" is a social construct and we all have a general idea of what that means. Even if our particular idea of the concept may differ, we know what it generally looks like. Gender is much the same way.
If you see someone who looks like a woman, talks like a woman, acts like a woman, etc. you would treat it as a woman. That is: up until you discover that they have a dick under their skirt. At that point, there is some contention. But prior to this discovery you would treat this individual as if they were the sex they portrayed themselves as. And there's the bottom line.
If you would treat an individual as one thing even though they are another, you are dealing with a contrast between socially constructed values and biology. Obviously, if a dude in a dress calls himself a woman, he's not a woman. But if they were sufficiently passing so that you wouldn't even question which gender they were, they are effectively that gender. So gender and sex are really two different things: sex being how your biology works and gender being how society perceives you. This doesn't mean, to any degree, that you can just decide you're a girl or a boy and expect everyone else to respect that. But it does mean that masculinity and femininity are not quite as cut-and-dry as we might often think.


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## soft kitty (May 6, 2020)

The idea of gender, sure. But to claim that gender is socially determined (which is the point of saying that it is a social construct) and not biological is wrong.

Just flat out wrong. You can no more change your sex than you can change your age. Sure, you can pretend to, if you want, but that's all it is: pretending.

This is what sane people believe; you won't find a lot of social constructionists on here. Calling gender a social construct does not change the biological realities of sex and gender (which are really the same thing).


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

dinoman said:


> The idea of gender, sure. But to claim that gender is socially determined (which is the point of saying that it is a social construct) and not biological is wrong.
> 
> Just flat out wrong. You can no more change your sex than you can change your age. Sure, you can pretend to, if you want, but that's all it is: pretending.
> 
> This is what sane people believe; you won't find a lot of social constructionists on here. Calling gender a social construct does not change the biological realities of sex and gender (which are really the same thing).


Again: "sex" and "gender" are two different things in this discussion. There is no changing your biology; that is something I think we can all agree on. But you CAN change how society perceives you. If society perceives you as a woman despite your biology saying otherwise, you are treated as a woman up until the point when people find out the truth. But if you treated an individual for so long as a woman, did anything really change about them the moment you learned they have a dingly dangle under their skirt?


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## soft kitty (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> Again: "sex" and "gender" are two different things in this discussion. There is no changing your biology; that is something I think we can all agree on. But you CAN change how society perceives you. If society perceives you as a woman despite your biology saying otherwise, you are treated as a woman up until the point when people find out the truth. But if you treated an individual for so long as a woman, did anything really change about them the moment you learned they have a dingly dangle under their skirt?


It doesn't matter. And sex and gender are not different.


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (May 6, 2020)

No such thing as "Gender".

There is only biological sex.


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## TheImportantFart (May 6, 2020)

Aspects are, like boys liking blue and girls liking pink, but not the whole package. There are biological realities that you can't just write off as being a result of society's mores.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

dinoman said:


> It doesn't matter. And sex and gender are not different.


By saying that you are not addressing the argument at hand. You're only contradicting and not actually arguing. You and I both understand that one's biological sex is immutable. I'm saying that society's impression is certainly mutable. There's trannys out there that are hotter than most women. If you see those individuals, without knowing they're men, and consider them attractive: does that make you gay?
furthermore: does it suddenly make you gay the moment you realize they're dudes?


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## soft kitty (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> By saying that you are not addressing the argument at hand. You're only contradicting and not actually arguing. You and I both understand that one's biological sex is immutable. I'm saying that society's impression is certainly mutable. There's trannys out there that are hotter than most women. If you see those individuals, without knowing they're men, and consider them attractive: does that make you gay?
> furthermore: does it suddenly make you gay the moment you realize they're dudes?


Blah blah blah

I don't need to make an argument. Sex is biological. The question of gayness is a simple one, are you attracted to your own sex? No? Then you're not gay.

This isn't complicated stuff here, folks. You learn about this in 6th grade biology.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

dinoman said:


> I'm a faggot who can't engage in a rational debate in a forum dedicated to rational debate.


u r gay


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## snailslime (May 6, 2020)

no, because most of the time people who transition half-ass it


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## soft kitty (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> u r gay


fuck off retard


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## Marche (May 6, 2020)

Gender is a meme and John Money wanted to fuck kids. 

The problem is we often say Gender when we mean sex.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

dinoman said:


> fuck off


c'mon, man. It's perfectly normal to find Bailey Jay attractive. Just accept that she's a woman and you won't have to wonder whether or not you're gay.


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## soft kitty (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> c'mon, man. It's perfectly normal to find Bailey Jay attractive. Just accept that she's a woman and you won't have to wonder whether or not you're gay.


nobody cares.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Marche said:


> Gender is a meme and John Money wanted to fuck kids.
> 
> The problem is we often say Gender when we mean sex.


Money was a weirdo who ruined childrens' lives. But that doesn't change the validity of the point. 
He thought gender was 100% socially constructed. That's wrong, of course. But a minority of people would be better off acting as one gender than another. Even so: that's not even the point.
The point is that your perception of an individual might be at contrast with their biological sex. That alone shows that "sex" and "gender" are entirely different things.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

dinoman said:


> nobody cares.


Well there's plenty of people who do. So obviously you're wrong, fag.


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## soft kitty (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> Well there's plenty of people who do. So obviously you're wrong, fag.


kill yourself faggot


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (May 6, 2020)

OP felt the need to make a thread on KiwiFarms to validate his thirst for lady cock.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

dinoman said:


> kill yourself faggot


no u


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## inexplicable ethos (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> c'mon, man. It's perfectly normal to find Bailey Jay attractive



Maybe, but it's also _not_ perfectly normal to still find "her" attractive after seeing "her" penis.

THAT MAKES YOU GAY NIGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Fanatical Pragmatist said:


> OP felt the need to make a thread on KiwiFarms to validate his thirst for lady cock.


never had any ladydick. but I'm sure it's better than mancock.


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

Would there be a difference, in your opinion, between a person being born as a biological male and then later wishing to be treated as a female, and a person born caucasian and then later wishing to be treated as black?


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

inexplicable ethos said:


> Maybe, but it's also _not_ perfectly normal to still find "her" attractive after seeing "her" penis.
> 
> THAT MAKES YOU GAY NIGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


NIGGER ends with an "r" dipshit. There's not even an "a" in there. Are you on drugs?


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## inexplicable ethos (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> nigga ends with an "r" dipshit. There's not even an "a" in there. Are you on drugs?



Oh man, the wordfilter makes this post SO much funnier than it would have been otherwise.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Murmur said:


> Would there be a difference, in your opinion, between a person being born as a biological male and then later wishing to be treated as a female, and a person born caucasian and then later wishing to be treated as black?


If others around them treated them as such, it doe not matter how they were born. If you look like a lady: your'e a lady. If you look like a nigger: you're a nigger


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

inexplicable ethos said:


> Oh man, the wordfilter makes this post SO much funnier than it would have been otherwise.


well shit. newfag detected I guess.


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> If others around them treated them as such, it doe not matter how they were born. If you look like a lady: your'e a lady. If you look like a nigga: you're a nigga



But what if you don't look like a lady but still want to be one?


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Murmur said:


> But what if you don't look like a lady but still want to be one?


then obviously you're not a lady. did you even read the OP?


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> then obviously you're not a lady. did you even read the OP?



Then it's not so much a social construct as an audio/visual one.


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## Occam's Spork (May 6, 2020)

This thread is complete faggotry, has no purpose, and is currently in the wrong subforum. 

Go back to reddit, OP. Or halfchan. Anywhere but here would be fine.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Murmur said:


> Then it's not so much a social construct as an audio/visual one.


SOCIETY decides these things. What "society" is depends on perspective, of course. But the main idea is that: if the general consensus is that you are a lady; you're a lady. 
Most trannies don't pass and must rely on the minority of SJW's for support. But that just further reflects the truth that the few that do pass would be treated like women until the truth of their situation is discovered.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Occam's Spork said:


> WAAAH! ideas I don't like are being expressed in a forum dedicated to spreading new ideas!


get fucked, queer.


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## inexplicable ethos (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> get fucked, queer.



"Traps-aren't-gay" calling someone else a queer is a bit ironic, isn't it?


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> SOCIETY decides these things. What "society" is depends on perspective, of course. But the main idea is that: if the general consensus is that you are a lady; you're a lady.
> Most trannies don't pass and must rely on the minority of SJW's for support. But that just further reflects the truth that the few that do pass would be treated like women until the truth of their situation is discovered.



But if I went out into public looking super gay, it doesn't make me gay. Sucking dick would make me gay.

A man going out into public looking like a woman doesn't make him a woman.


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## Occam's Spork (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> get fucked, queer.


Your thoughts are neither deep, thought provoking, or novel. This is bad bait on the level of summerfag 4chan bullshit from 2012 and you need to up your game, get a brain ideally, or simply suckstart a shotgun, because nobody cares about your half baked opinions on trannies.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (May 6, 2020)

> If you see someone who looks like a woman, talks like a woman, acts like a woman, etc. you would treat it as a woman. That is: up until you discover that they have a dick under their skirt. At that point, there is some contention. But prior to this discovery you would treat this individual as if they were the sex they portrayed themselves as. And there's the bottom line.


That's like saying if there's cereal box that looks and feels legit, but in actuality filled with horseshit, then that means cereal are a social construct.

The whole idea that sex != gender is pure newspeak. Especially since 20 years ago the idea of women having the same interest as men was popular, while now liking something seen as girlish is proof that you need to get your dick chopped off.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

inexplicable ethos said:


> "Traps-aren't-gay" calling someone else a queer is a bit ironic, isn't it?


yeah. this is a throwaway account made just to make this thread. You're a gay anyways.


Murmur said:


> But if I went out into public looking super gay, it doesn't make me gay. Sucking dick would make me gay.
> 
> A man going out into public looking like a woman doesn't make him a woman.


There is a bit of a disconnect between how you are perceived and who you are. That is actually MY point. If people perceive you as gay, you are socially gay. That doesn't make you personally gay though.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> That's like saying if there's cereal box that looks and feels legit, but in actuality filled with horseshit, then that means cereal are a social construct.
> 
> The whole idea that sex != gender is pure newspeak. Especially since 20 years ago the idea of women having the same interest as men was popular, while now liking something seen as girlish is proof that you need to get your dick chopped off.


you do realize that successful M2F surgeries have been conducted at least since the Wiemar republic, right?


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## inexplicable ethos (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> you do realize that successful M2F surgeries have been conducted at least since the Wiemar republic, right?



I have yet to see a single successful sexual reassignment surgery even today.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> you do realize that successful M2F surgeries have been conducted at least since the Wiemar republic, right?


Did they still have 42% mortality rate back then? Also, having the push to rewrite the definition of gender be a century old doesn't mean that it's not newspeak.


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> There is a bit of a disconnect between how you are perceived and who you are. That is actually MY point. If people perceive you as gay, you are socially gay. That doesn't make you personally gay though.



And MY point is there is no social anything. Gay (in this instance) means a dude having sex with a dude. How can you socially have sex with other dudes but at the same time not have sex with other dudes personally?


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## Recoil (May 6, 2020)

If you do enough mental gymnastics, you'll grow a vagina. Keep trying, OP!


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

inexplicable ethos said:


> I have yet to see a single successful sexual reassignment surgery even today.





wtfNeedSignUp said:


> Did they still have 42% mortality rate back then? Also, having the push to rewrite the definition of gender be a century old doesn't mean that it's not newspeak.


Well back then there was nothing but "turn your dick inside out and dilate for the rest of your life." Surgery has a long way to go before we reach "legit pussy" levels. The best we have now is "we're gonna take a piece of your asshole and put it where your dick used to be" (yes: that's a thing). But the surgical aspect is beyond the point. If people perceive you as a woman, they will treat you as a woman, and at that point: you might as well be a woman.


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## Occam's Spork (May 6, 2020)

The actual answer to your question is no, fag.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Murmur said:


> And MY point is there is no social anything. Gay (in this instance) means a dude having sex with a dude. How can you socially have sex with other dudes but at the same time not have sex with other dudes personally?


If society treats them as women, it is not gay.


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> If society treats them as women, it is not gay.



That's not what I mean. You said if society treats you gay then you are socially gay, but not personally gay. But if gay means that I have sex with other men, then how can I be socially gay but not personally gay? I would have to exist in a superposition of simultaneously fucking and not fucking men.

My point was that there is no social vs. personal. You are what you are.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> Well back then there was nothing but "turn your dick inside out and dilate for the rest of your life." Surgery has a long way to go before we reach "legit pussy" levels. The best we have now is "we're gonna take a piece of your asshole and put it where your dick used to be" (yes: that's a thing). But the surgical aspect is beyond the point. If people perceive you as a woman, they will treat you as a woman, and at that point: you might as well be a woman.


And I gave you a direct response why that's overly broad and autistic. Here's another: If I camouflage myself as a tree so well people who are far away will think I'm a tree, does that mean trees are a social construct?


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## muh_moobs (May 6, 2020)

lol no.

Gender =/= "gender roles". Trannies and lefties need to accept that.


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> If society treats them as women, it is not gay.


"ITS NOT GAY IF HE WEARS A DRESS, DAD!"


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Murmur said:


> That's not what I mean. You said if society treats you gay then you are socially gay, but not personally gay. But if gay means that I have sex with other men, then how can I be socially gay but not personally gay? I would have to exist in a superposition of simultaneously fucking and not fucking men.
> 
> My point was that there is no social vs. personal. You are what you are.


How society perceives you is separate from what you are. This is something most people realize in grade school. People have a general idea of who you are without knowing "you" at the most deepest levels. 


wtfNeedSignUp said:


> And I gave you a direct response why that's overly broad and autistic. Here's another: If I camouflage myself as a tree so well people who are far away will think I'm a tree, does that mean trees are a social construct?


To an extent: yes. Read some nietzsche


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

muh_moobs said:


> lol no.
> 
> Gender =/= "gender roles". Trannies and lefties need to accept that.


What you think of "gender" is actually biological sex. The roles these sexes are assumed to play is "gender."


Fanatical Pragmatist said:


> "ITS NOT GAY IF HE WEARS A DRESS, DAD!"


If it looks like a dude, it's a dude. How hard is this to get across?


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## muh_moobs (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> What you think of "gender" is actually biological sex. The roles these sexes are assumed to play is "gender."



"Gender" and "sex" are synonyms, dumdum.



traps-aren't-gay said:


> If it looks like a dude, it's a dude. How hard is this to get across?



If it has a dick it's a dude.


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## Fascist Frederick (May 6, 2020)

muh_moobs said:


> If it has a dick it's a dude.



XY Chromosomes = Dude. Getting into a tragic boating accident would not turn you into a woman any more than surgery or putting on a dress.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> To an extent: yes. Read some nietzsche


That just proves my point that the definition is broad to being completely pointless.


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## Occam's Spork (May 6, 2020)

Everyone give a warm welcome back to Tuscantarder, who has clearly learned exactly jack shit. Same posting style, same arrogance and dismissive attitude, same worthless bait threads.


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (May 6, 2020)

muh_moobs said:


> "Gender" and "sex" are synonyms, dumdum.


TBF the modern idea of "gender" comes from a mega pedophile faggot named John Money, who thought that if society treated a boy like a woman he would be a woman.

He made some poor kid with a botched circumcision dress as a girl and act like a girl.
Then he made his brother mount the poor kid to teach him how women are to be taken.
They both later killed themselves.

Meanwhile Money's pedophile faggot idea that how society treats someone is more important than what they biologically are has become mainstream and we have demons of Slaanesh _inspiring drag queens_ reading it to children.

My point being biological sex = real; gender = fake & gay


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

muh_moobs said:


> "Gender" and "sex" are synonyms, dumdum.


Contradiction=/=argumentation


muh_moobs said:


> If it has a dick it's a dude.


Until you realize there's a dick there, how could you tell? That's my point.



Murmur said:


> XY Chromosomes = Dude. Getting into a tragic boating accident would not turn you into a woman any more than surgery or putting on a dress.


I don't want to bring up Kleinfelters, but Kleinfelters.



Fanatical Pragmatist said:


> TBF the modern idea of "gender" comes from a mega pedophile faggot named John Money, who thought that if society treated a boy like a woman he would be a woman.
> 
> He made some poor kid with a botched circumcision dress as a girl and act like a girl.
> Then he made his brother mount the poor kid to teach him how women are to be taken.
> ...


money's a pedo. Fuc him.


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## Computer Guardian (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> Until you realize there's a dick there, how could you tell? That's my point.


what about all the other tell tale signs like the semi muscular looking frame, the mannish looking face, the lack of boobs, the effeminate sounding voice and the effort to hide the dick that shows that the trap is a dude?


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## Positron (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> nigga ends with an "r" dipshit. There's not even an "a" in there. Are you on drugs?


Here at Kiwifarms we treat the word "nigga" as the equivalent of "nigger".  If you believe in your version of Social Constructionism you'll do likewise.



wtfNeedSignUp said:


> And I gave you a direct response why that's overly broad and autistic. Here's another: If I camouflage myself as a tree so well people who are far away will think I'm a tree, does that mean trees are a social construct?





traps-aren't-gay said:


> To an extent: yes. Read some nietzsche


Educate me.  I'm interested in Nietzsche but don't know much.  Tell me which of his book or passage expressed this idea please?


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

TuxedGieco said:


> what about all the other tell tale signs like the semi muscular looking frame, the mannish looking face, the lack of boobs, the effeminate sounding voice and the effort to hide the dick that shows that the trap is a dude?


That brings me back to the basic litmus test:
If it's obviously a dude; it's obviously a dude
If it's obviously a chick; it's obviously a chick
If you're not sure; treat it how it presents itself.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Positron said:


> Here at Kiwifarms we treat the word "nigga" as the equivalent of "nigger".  If you believe in your version of Social Constructionism you'll do likewise.


Noted.


Positron said:


> Educate me.  I'm interested in Nietzsche but don't know much.  Tell me which of his book or passage expressed this idea please?


Here's a good primer:





						The Nietzsche Channel: On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense
					

On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral Sense.



					oregonstate.edu


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## Boris Blank's glass eye (May 6, 2020)

OP, you're a faggot so flaming you should GTFO before you immolate this damn planet. A homo so raging you need a dick every 10 minutes or else you turn into a homo-Hulk.

I'll take the bait, and that makes me a raytard, however.

I've taken more than one Sociology courses (in Central Europe, mind you), and the accepted stance, in a nutshell, was "sex is your biological reality and gender is what it means for you in your society", making the particularities of gender a social construct. That doesn't mean it's a social construct in the way modern "progressives" want it to be - sex and gender are inseparable from one another, resulting in biological essentialism.


Spoiler: some sperging



As far as I understand, the progressive stance can be reduced to "society made it up on a whim", while the stance I was taught can be reduced to "society made it up, but *not* on a whim". For example, women are not the primary caretakers of their children because The Patriarchy wants to keep them down, but because they're the most fit for *biological reasons*, even if the father is a "Papa Bear" type, and would be perfectly capable of taking care of the child after weaning. There's also the point that gender roles change with every society. For example, according to old  Gypsy (Romani) traditions in CE, the women are supposed to be the breadwinners by having them steal  food - at least in some tribes. Or, how Italian families AFAIK usually have their matriarchs which is completely absent in Northern Europe. Or there are the people who took "being single" as a lifestyle, and made their "own gender roles". Sure, there were old maid cat ladies before, but those didn't have the connotations of "fucks around, eats full tubs of ice cream, cries herself to sleep after drinking whole boxes of shitty rosé wine".


TL;DR sex and gender are inseparable, but particularities of the latter change with the place and time.


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## cjöcker (May 6, 2020)

Gender to me has always been stupid, I don't care if you have bollocks or not, what matters is how you think and act and say, not whatever you have down there. Although it feels like a bit more than a coincidence that people who treat gender as a social construct and identify as the opposite sex that they were born as make great lolcows, almost as if they're mentally ill.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Boris Blank's glass eye said:


> OP, you're a faggot so flaming you should GTFO before you immolate this damn planet. A homo so raging you need a dick every 10 minutes or else you turn into a homo-Hulk.
> 
> I'll take the bait, and that makes me a raytard, however.
> 
> ...


Bottom line is that you're missing the goddamn point. 
When we exclude reproduction from sexuality, we find that sexuality varies from the basic "xx/xy" model. People are attracted to whoever they are attracted to. A man who is attracted to a "man" which displays nothing but feminine characteristics cannot be called "gay" in any greater a sence that a man attracted to a woman can.  If they both look equally like women, none is more "gay" than the other.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (May 6, 2020)

You are mistaking aberrations as being a normal and/or natural category of behavior. 

Uncanny valley/trans panic defenses are/were a thing because once people realize their expectations on this front have been accidentally or purposefully subverted it makes them deeply uneasy and distressed. 

That's not because they're bigots, it's because we're internally programmed to fear, find threatening or likely more strongly in this scenario find this a sign of sickness/lack of health. 

The man who likes a trap and then turns off when he discovers he found a trap sexually attractive is not gay, he had been purposefully deceived and his perspective changed once he had more information.

There is nothing natural in nature to compare genderbenders/trannies to; there are androgenous and intersex people but these can usually still be picked out as leaning very strongly one way. The Baliey Jay-type is an aberration from which a fair inference cannot be drawn.


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## Easterling (May 6, 2020)

OP you've come on here to cope pretty hard to a bunch of indivduals who's minds your really not going to change on the matter. Im open to people beliving 'gender is a social construct' since I belive people are entitled to belive what they want. Its when people try to enact that shit and start fucking with the lives of childern, to that I say, you know what, you can fuck right off with that shit. All I will say is this though, as others have pointed out, the entire basis for the theory on gender is based off the work of a man who's research and the truma it induced resulted in the suicides of the two unfortunate people it was carried out on.


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## Stoneheart (May 6, 2020)

Well, depends on how ugly you are.  a manlet with a tiny dick is just a male in theorie...


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## WhoBusTank69 (May 6, 2020)

Societal communication is based upon the sharing information as accurately as humanly possible, so the differentiating of gender from sex, hijacking a synonymous word for the purpose of deceit or exemption of information, is clearly not society's doing. For trannies it's used without ill intent; they want to fit in, after all, but a man is no substitute for woman just as woman is no substitute for man and that would be in any sense of the word or meaning of sex.
If we ever do get to the point of viable and complete sexual reassignment surgery, we will see men giving birth to children they do not know how nor are expected to raise. To do so would require thousands of years of instinct, and to endure those years of experience is not without risk. That extends to your biological makeup as well, as that will surely warp and twist when there are two legitimately male parents as an origin with dominant genes tangling and competing.

Sex is not only boiled down to dick and vagina but the wiring and chemical makeup that drives one's existence. You cannot reprogram instinct - thousands of years of inherited know-how trumps a doctor with a pair of scissors.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Easterling said:


> OP you've come on here to cope pretty hard to a bunch of indivduals who's minds your really not going to change on the matter. Im open to people beliving 'gender is a social construct' since I belive people are entitled to belive what they want. Its when people try to enact that shit and start fucking with the lives of childern, to that I say, you know what, you can fuck right off with that shit. All I will say is this though, as others have pointed out, the entire basis for the theory on gender is based off the work of a man who's research and the truma it induced resulted in the suicides of the two unfortunate people it was carried out on.


I already said pushing this shit on children is child abuse. What more do you want?


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## WannabeDictator (May 6, 2020)

Let me simplyfy this thread for you OP, your shitty disney princesses outfit will never make men want to have anal sex with your sweaty morbidly obese ass. It is biologically sane to not be attracted by you whether or not you wear the dress and wig your creepy rapey ass clown wearing fag.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

WannabeDictator said:


> Let me simplyfy this thread for you OP, your shitty disney princesses outfit will never make men want to have anal sex with your sweaty morbidly obese ass. It is biologically sane to not be attracted by you whether or not you wear the dress and wig your creepy rapey ass clown wearing fag.


I'm actually a skinny fuck. And btw: men love the way my hairy asshole tickles their weeny on the way out.


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## Jewthulhu (May 6, 2020)

No amount of "traps aren't gay" cope will change the fact that you want to fuck a dude. Just admit to being a fagot OP.


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## Syaoran Li (May 6, 2020)

OP is a faggot, but it really is okay to be gay.

If OP likes traps, that's his own personal prerogative. 

Just don't sperg about it on a public forum.


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## Lemmingwise (May 6, 2020)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> Did they still have 42% mortality rate back then? Also, having the push to rewrite the definition of gender be a century old doesn't mean that it's not newspeak.


Nah it was 100% because they tried to transplant the womb too.

It's okay, it wasn't nazi's or Mengele doing this experimentation, so it was progress.


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## traps-aren't-gay (May 6, 2020)

Syaoran Li said:


> OP is a faggot, but it really is okay to be gay.
> 
> If OP likes traps, that's his own personal prerogative.
> 
> Just don't sperg about it on a public forum.


My homosexuality has nothing to do with this. The matter at hand is whether thinking of sex and gender as two separate concepts is a useful means of describing the reality of the situation. And the fact that you would treat a sufficiently feminine male as if they were women (until you find out what they're packing) supports this idea.
If it helps you sleep better, forget that "gender" is the word being discussed here. It is USEFUL to have a word to denote the spectrum of masculinity to femininity as perceived by society. Whatever that word is, whatever your thoughts on trannies are, it is useful to speak in common terms when discussing any subject.


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## Heartmoth (May 6, 2020)

I think its fine if XYs wanna look like XXs and vice versa, but when it comes down to it you can't change your chromosomes  
Lets not make it about gender or misogyny or whether you have a dick or vagina, lets make it about the fashion, the personality, the interests. 
Sure, it's nice that people are allowed to go outside their prescribed social roles, but seriously, y'all ain't special or transcendent or superior or sum shit. Just act like human beings.


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## Shield Breaker (May 6, 2020)

traps-aren't-gay said:


> you do realize that successful M2F surgeries have been conducted at least since the Wiemar republic, right?



Are you one of those spergs who think the Nazis destroyed the super advanced dick cutting knowledge like the troons on reddit claim?


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## drain (May 6, 2020)

Tbh I don't give a single fuck if you want to present as someone from the opposite sex, you do you dude. Of course, biology is biology and your genetics can't be changed, but who gives a shit, honestly? It's the same thing you point to a fake blonde in the middle of the street and say ''oh  your genetics say you're actually a brunette!''

Personally, Idc how you present yourself, just don't be a giant asshat about it.


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## Longjack Attack (May 6, 2020)

OP is a faggot.

Males are gonna be males and females are gonna be females. I don't care if you get a sex change and cut your balls off, at the end of the day you're still gonna have bone structure and body features that of a man. Case closed.


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## nukes (May 7, 2020)

Idk, I don’t think men or women should be expected to act in any certain way. Feminine men and masculine women shouldn’t be shamed for not adhering to societal expectations, but they are. 

It doesn’t bother me if someone wants to look like the other sex. My issue comes in when they expect people to bend over backwards and coddle their delusions that they are actually meant to be the other sex. You can’t be born the ‘wrong sex’, that just does not happen. You may have dysphoria, and want to present as the other sex to make you more comfortable, but do not invade spaces that belong to that sex and do not force anyone to accept your gender identity. Thinking you were meant to be born the opposite sex is fucking weird. Do whatever you want but don’t think that you’re entitled to anyone’s validation or that rules need to be changed for you.


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## AsianChris (May 7, 2020)

I dress like a doctor, I tell everyone that I am a doctor. Everybody believes me untill they found I don't have a degree and never worked a day in my entire life.

"OMG GUYZ!! I WAS A DOCTOR UNTILL THAT POINT!!!!!"


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## Guts Gets Some (May 8, 2020)

I hate you for this poll. You think it's going to be "Is gender a construct", but you wind up voting for "A troon isn't gay". 

Asshole.


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