# Should We Crash China's Economy?



## Secret Asshole (Oct 10, 2019)

So, China has been in the news a lot lately. A 5% ownership in Blizzard was enough to severely restrict speech and withdraw an award. The NBA is getting sponsors pulled because of people badmouthing China. We've got Google working with China to establish an authoritarian search engine before people walked out. We've got our entertainment being censored, written and directed differently to appeal to the Chinese market. Tencent owns a huge portion of the gaming industry, which will affect creativity, monetization and what games get made for decades to come. Not to mention selling your information for billions. Hollywood is continually trying to appeal to the Chinese market. Forget banks and credit card companies. They're in balls deep, along with manufacturing. Next, the most authoritarian of our so-called moral tech companies wants in on China too.

This wouldn't be so bad. Except China is a big giant fucking reactionary baby. Its not just about their control over our economy, our entertainment and such. If these were just businesses, fine. But in China, politics is business. So the CCP maintains an iron hold on its businesses and will enforce even the most milquetoast criticisms. The main problem is this: You can't boycott all these companies. And their strangle-hold is only getting bigger. 

Chinese values are starting to infringe on our rights. Me, being a former socialist and all, believes the government should kick down the doors of these faggots and preform defenestration on all the executives.

The mantra of 'private company' no longer applies in the age of gigantic, multinational conglomerates who are richer and more influential than some governments. What we are effectively allowing are stateless, monolithic entities to control our rights in the name of profit. People say political speech should be a protected right. I don't think that goes far enough. I don't want Chinese influence on our culture. I don't want companies surrendering American values of freedom, freedom of expression and a right to protest just because they want a Chinese dollar. To do that, moving companies out of America isn't enough.

I know this idea is pretty insane, but nobody said I was mentally stable but....lets burn the Chinese Paper Tiger Economy to the ground. Lets just fucking take a bat to its wobbling fucking jenga-block of an economy and knock it the fuck down. Sure, it'd fuck over the world, but the reds would be completely fucked and the CCP would be forced to release its stranglehold. We laugh and joke about China and its knockoffs and its authoritarianism but its starting to not get funny anymore. 

What about China buying into media companies? Russia isn't the worry. China is too dominant a force in our business. If we can't or won't knock the Chinese economy down, we have to fuck over American business betraying our values for cash. Personally I'd rather crash this son of a bitch, because China is currently the most dangerous entity on the world stage. It is incredibly thin skinned, reactionary, paranoid and desperate to hold onto power despite any cost. And its pushing all of that on us. Companies only see the population. But I see an economy constantly built on lies upon lies, which will only cause them to become even more authoritarian. So I say lets cut the shit and get right to it.

The rich fuck us enough. But now we're being forced to give up our rights by a foreign power due to 'muh private business'. Something needs to be done. Obviously, this is the most extreme option. But I'm not fucking willing to accept a foreign power infringing on my fucking rights.


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## Revan (Oct 10, 2019)

Hell no, fucking China's economy will fuck us right back.


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## A Useless Fish (Oct 10, 2019)

If the Chinese economy was brought to its knees, could the Communist party maintain power? They'd be relying on the army, but if they couldn't pay for their services, anymore? Would we get another Chang Kai Shek in power? Would that make things better, or worse, since the new government would also likely be a gang of authoritarian assholes with the same grip in private companies over here?


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## TFT-A9 (Oct 10, 2019)

I want it to happen but I don't think it will, at least not by our hands.  I anticipate China trying some serious hijinks when their paper tiger finishes burning, and I'm pretty sure it's going to hit us too.


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## Questionable Ceviche (Oct 10, 2019)

They're doing a pretty good job of hobbling their own economy without our help.


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## DumbDude42 (Oct 10, 2019)

it's not so much a question of "should" but one of "could"

leftists control all major western powers, and all of them will gladly lick the boots of their new beijing overlords as long as it allows them to virtue signal about sticking it to drumpf

and while america is indeed powerful, it's not powerful enough to single-handedly force the rest of the world into submission in an actual trade war


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## Marco Fucko (Oct 10, 2019)

I say two nukes wasn't enough low cost of manufacturing can always be moved to other countries and quite frankly China is all too eager to be buy western property but also demand kowtowing. Maybe a modicum of economic warfare will teach them respect.


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## Manwithn0n0men (Oct 10, 2019)

A Useless Fish said:


> If the Chinese economy was brought to its knees, could the Communist party maintain power? They'd be relying on the army, but if they couldn't pay for their services, anymore? Would we get another Chang Kai Shek in power? Would that make things better, or worse, since the new government would also likely be a gang of authoritarian assholes with the same grip in private companies over here?


Why do you think they have been stock piling raw materials (and gold)


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## Secret Asshole (Oct 10, 2019)

Revan said:


> Hell no, fucking China's economy will fuck us right back.



Shit's gonna drop with or without us. Better for us to control that drop than let China go apeshit.



A Useless Fish said:


> If the Chinese economy was brought to its knees, could the Communist party maintain power? They'd be relying on the army, but if they couldn't pay for their services, anymore? Would we get another Chang Kai Shek in power? Would that make things better, or worse, since the new government would also likely be a gang of authoritarian assholes with the same grip in private companies over here?



Don't think so. Winnie the Poo acted like Valdimir Putin and consolidated all power. Economy goes, he goes, and then its junta time. 



Homoerotic Cougar-kun said:


> I want it to happen but I don't think it will, at least not by our hands.  I anticipate China trying some serious hijinks when their paper tiger finishes burning, and I'm pretty sure it's going to hit us too.



Its just, the paper tiger is going to burn us too thanks to our faggot execs. I'm just proposing we control how it burns us rather than just letting China play pretend with its stock market and everything being ok.


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## A Useless Fish (Oct 10, 2019)

How much investment does China have in Africa now, anyways? Say that you wanted to cripple them immediately, would blockading access to all of the resources they're getting control of throughout the continent there do it?


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## Manwithn0n0men (Oct 10, 2019)

A Useless Fish said:


> How much investment does China have in Africa now, anyways? Say that you wanted to cripple them immediately, would blockading access to all of the resources they're getting control of throughout the continent there do it?


that would be a world war (and we would need the frenchies on board)


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## Secret Asshole (Oct 10, 2019)

Yeah, you can't just cut off China's access to Africa. China is extraordinarily reactionary like I said. Just look at the South China Sea. Despite having 'China' in the name, its claimed by multiple countries who are very close to it. Even that has to be with a tender touch. If we crater their shit into the ground, Africa will be the least of their worries.

EDIT:
Oh and the last time the French got involved in Africa it caused the migrant crisis by convincing us to obliterate Libiya. Lets not let the frogs in on anything where they can fuck it up.


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## Syaoran Li (Oct 10, 2019)

If I were President Trump, I'd wait until the 2020 Election cycle is over. In the event of re-election, escalate the trade war with a full-scale embargo like we did to Cuba. Freeze all Chinese assets in the United States and issue an ultimatum to the Silicon Valley commissars: Cease all business with the PRC or face the possibility of treason charges. 

That ultimatum will send a message to Hollywood and the manufacturing companies. 

Admittedly, the American economy will be hurting badly in the short-term and Trump will get a lot of flak from it but if the policy is kept in place for the entirety of a second term, that should deal some major damage to Xi Jinping's regime and even if the winner of the 2024 Election immediately overturns all those sanctions and embargoes, China will be in a bigger world of hurt than us.

We'll be able to recover from a post-China recession and our government is not at risk of collapse in a major recession while the Chinese government is.

*Beijing Delenda Est*


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## Manwithn0n0men (Oct 10, 2019)

Secret Asshole said:


> Yeah, you can't just cut off China's access to Africa. China is extraordinarily reactionary like I said. Just look at the South China Sea. Despite having 'China' in the name, its claimed by multiple countries who are very close to it. Even that has to be with a tender touch. If we crater their shit into the ground, Africa will be the least of their worries.


And a lot of those African countries want an excuse to nationalize the chicom investments



Syaoran Li said:


> If I were President Trump, I'd wait until the 2020 Election cycle is over. In the event of re-election, escalate the trade war with a full-scale embargo like we did to Cuba. Freeze all Chinese assets in the United States and issue an ultimatum to the Silicon Valley commissars: Cease all business with the PRC or face the possibility of treason charges.
> 
> That ultimatum will send a message to Hollywood and the manufacturing companies.
> 
> ...



China is bleeding out now.....you dont need to cut deeper


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## Nobunaga (Oct 10, 2019)

We should had let the japs exterminate the chinese before we provoked them into attacking pearl harbor.


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## Bunny Tracks (Oct 10, 2019)

I'm all for this. I'll be blunt here; Communist China should've been burnt to the ground after what happened at Tienanmen Square. In all honesty, it should've never gotten that far to begin with, but if there was ever a straw that broke the camel's back, that should've been it. 

Crashing their economy will undoubtedly hurt us, but it will utterly _*destroy*_ them. I'd say it's more than worth it. I would gladly sit through another recession if it meant the CCP gets completely annihilated in the process.


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## Vlinny-kun (Oct 10, 2019)

I'm all for it, but how are we going to do that?

I'd personally would like to drop a nuke down on each of their costal cities, including Beijing, even if it didn't put a dent in there economy.


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## HarveyMC (Oct 10, 2019)

Revan said:


> Hell no, fucking China's economy will fuck us right back.



You misunderstand. China has a POTENTIAL economy (I.E: There are huge profits to be made in the future), they have the economy of a paper tiger right now. They have 5x the population and less than have the GDP. They might have large numbers, but they can't bring those numbers to bear.


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## FA 855 (Oct 10, 2019)

The way I would do this is by getting American intelligence to use more money to weed out Chinese agents attempting to steal US intellectual property, we need to be willing to steal their IPs. Trumps moves on China are good but we need to increase pressure, personally I think the biggest mistake NATO made was when it refused Russia admission, they might've been a good third wheel against these Chinese fucks by now. America should pressure European nations to stop using Chinese state owned 'companies' for their crucial infrastructure, this is what your intelligence agencies keep saying and no one fucking listens because all they care about in Europe is money. Next steps: Fund Hong Kong protesters, strengthen Taiwan, undermine two systems one country concept and promote separatism among-st the Tibetans and Uighurs get arms over the borders.

Often, wars are costly because we don't understand our enemy, like Vietnam, or the Taliban, we need to know how the CCP thinks and how the populations their think, we should take the advice of Chinese Americans who know a thing or two about the culture and how we might use that as leverage. 

Put more funding into cyber security, the Chinese are formidable as the hacker 4chan and we need to up our game. Increase penalties for politicians taking bribes from Chinese state owned 'companies' (like what happened in Australia labour party, it will happen in the US if something isn't done) as something like life in prison or death sentence for treason. Prevent China buying any further shares in western companies, compete better against China for influence in Africa.


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## TenMilesWide (Oct 10, 2019)

RedRightHand said:


> we need to be willing to steal their IPs.


Do they have any to steal?


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## Idiotron (Oct 10, 2019)

From what I understand, the Chinese allow their government to do what it wants because of the economic boom.
Chinese baby boomers and gen x still remember times when there was no money anywhere and they want their kids to have better lives than they did, even at the cost of their freedom.
If the economy falls, the support for the party will disappear and a civil war will be on the horizon.
Imagine the yellow vest riots but with 300 million rioters.

What would be the global consequence of that? Who knows but it would be very entertaining.


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## Varg Did Nothing Wrong (Oct 10, 2019)

China actively props up the Dollar to keep it's own internal currency undervalued in order to be able to undercut every other country for manufacturing. If you took a bat to China's economy, then the US and world economy would instantly shit the bed because the Chinese wouldn't be stabilizing the dollar anymore.


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## FA 855 (Oct 10, 2019)

TenMilesWide said:


> Do they have any to steal?


To my knowledge not yet, but they are getting quite far with AI technologies and cloning, anything productive that comes of that, we should steal.


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## Manwithn0n0men (Oct 10, 2019)

HeyItsHarveyMacClout said:


> You misunderstand. China has a POTENTIAL economy (I.E: There are huge profits to be made in the future), they have the economy of a paper tiger right now. They have 5x the population and less than have the GDP. They might have large numbers, but they can't bring those numbers to bear.


Also a lot of their GDP is tied up in real estate scams


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## Comicsgeist (Oct 10, 2019)

People forget the 'historical context' around how this all came about.
The West is largely responsible for China's rise, it's about time it got busy with it's fall.
China rose in the wake of all that post 1989 optimism that came with the fall of the Berlin Wall ,which Francis Fukuyama described in his infamous article 'The End of History'.

Fukuyama argued that with the imminent collapse of the Soviet  Union, the last ideological alternative to liberalism had been  eliminated. Fascism had been killed off in the Second World War, aparthied in S.A had been dismantled and now Communism was imploding. States like China, that called themselves  Communist, were seeing political and economic reforms that were 'inevitably' heading in the direction  of a liberal order. 
History had reached it's goal and representative government, free markets, and consumerist culture would dominate the world!
Simply put, there was a lot of sunny optimism and utopian thinking going on in those heady days and a rather niave belief emerged that capitalism and democracy would trump ideology. Once there was a McDonald's in Red Square and Tiananmen square all would be right with the world and the attitude was that all China needed to become part of this liberal new world order ....was access to the international market.

Well those that forget their history are doomed to repeat it. 
History didn't stop in the easy living 90's-2000's, instead the party did.
9/11 proved once and for that the West's sunny optimism was about to face some harsh realities and ideology might just be a tougher nut to crack then we thought. 
Now people are beginning to question the value of rampant globalism and recognize it as the threat to democracy that it really is. 
If the fightback is to start anywhere, it must start where it began. By kicking the corporate interests whose greed  sold our manufacturing sectors to China in exchange for cheap DVD players and iPhones for all (and a healthy profit for them of course), thus making them a global economic superpower.
It's no coincidence that Trump and Brexit happened all at once. Economic nationalism is popular right now beause it's a manefestion of the unease people are feeling about how much control over our lives we have sold to globalist interests and the shady nations they do business in.


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## JosephStalin (Oct 10, 2019)

Folks, China has problems we should be very glad not to have.  Have listed all of them in previous posts here.

China's getting old before it is getting rich.  The "one-child policy" is biting China with fangs or steel.  The country is by no means evenly developed.  Environmental problems due to rapid industrialization.  Huge shortage of marriageable women in the 20-40 year age group.  Lots of men who will never be able to find a wife.  Other countries starting to supplant China as the low-cost producer.   

Here's the biggest problem, as I see it.  As people's economic situations improve, the more they want their political situation to improve.  South Korea and Taiwan made the difficult, and not entirely bloodless, transition from authoritarian states to democracies.  The Xi regime is utterly terrified of that happening.  They are terrified of the growing Muslim problem in their west.  They are scared shitless over what's been happening in Hong Kong.  This is a regime that expends enormous amounts of resources (people, equipment, money) on suppressing dissent and dissenters.  And I'd go so far as to say the Xi regime is no monolith.  Someone inside the regime, maybe even Xi himself, knows of all these problems and more.  

What to do?  I don't believe the Xi regime really knows for sure.  For now, they can get by doing what they are doing to their Muslims.  Far as various social media goes, for every measure there's a countermeasure, and people are endlessly inventive.  Looking at Hong Kong, they have no good choices as they see them, only bad and worse.

President Trump is doing the right thing re trade with China.  Finally have a President who will stand up to those people.  The next recession is key, I believe.  We will sneeze and get a cold.  China may start off with pneumonia.  Should massive unemployment occur, there is likely to be widespread rioting.  China doesn't have unemployment insurance like we do in the USA.  

On the military side, China's got some new ships, new planes, lots of troops and tanks.  China's last real combat experience was forty years ago.  And I don't believe they have any combined-arms combat experience at all.   With a deficient power-projection capability, unless they can drive or march across the border, the PLA's gonna have to swim.  

Bottom line here...believe China is more a house of cards than many think.    Anything can happen there, and when it does it can happen very quickly.  You could be shocked, but don't be surprised at anything that happens re China.



Manwithn0n0men said:


> Also a lot of their GDP is tied up in real estate scams



Yup, got a real estate bubble, a credit bubble, and a debt bubble.   Just a matter of when, not if, any or all these bubbles burst.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Oct 10, 2019)

Calling the Chinese Communist progressives "reactionary" is insane and an insult to reactionaries like monarchists, who hate them for them obvious reasons. China is _the _inevitable result of left-wing politics- it is the opposite of a reactionary state. That said:

Tank their economy. We can take the hit.


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## Slowpoke Sonic (Oct 10, 2019)

The Chinese are almost like an Asian version of stereotypical Jews, since they are technically capitalist and how they make and control almost every media. The problem is that China is trying to become a Communist superpower, though they have a developed economy and also pretty corrupt.

If we try to destroy it’s economy, the entire country and the American companies they control will be even more fucked than usual. The thing with capitalism is that if it fails in a country, it will fall into literal anarchy.

It’s also pretty ironic that China has a communist political party, yet they’re so close to becoming a capitalist nation. Almost every company from that country are pretty successful (i.e Tencent, Lenovo, ByteDance). Then again, if we crash their economy there won’t be any more shit from them.


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## Scandinadian Bacon (Oct 10, 2019)

Absolutely yes. The sooner the better. The sooner we do it the less painful it will be.

Crash China 2019.


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## JosephStalin (Oct 10, 2019)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> Calling the Chinese Communist progressives "reactionary" is insane and an insult to reactionaries like monarchists, who hate them for them obvious reasons. China is _the _inevitable result of left-wing politics- it is the opposite of a reactionary state. That said:
> 
> Tank their economy. We can take the hit.



Truth is, even though the Xi regime is ostensibly Communist, they have turned into a nationalist authoritarian state.  They know their ideology is not exportable.  And China relies a good deal on exports.  Could be said that China of the 2010's-2020's is the Japan of the 1980's-1990's, and we all know what happened with Japan.


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## Idiotron (Oct 10, 2019)

TenMilesWide said:


> Do they have any to steal?


They don't but Hong Kong does so we need to buy everything from HK studios before they get completely swallowed by the mainland.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Oct 10, 2019)

Just turn Mao Zedong's corpse into a zombie and let him do the rest.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Oct 10, 2019)

If you are going to do it, you better do it soon; The West is running out of time for this. 

I also think there is a high likelyhood this sort of thinking could lead to a more general kind of conflict, it reminds me of the sort of desperate mentality before WW1 (Russia has to be taken out *NOW,* if we don't invade them in the next 5 years our military capabilties will not be strong enough to stop them); Not that I don't understand where you all are coming from, doing nothing is a poison in of itself.


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## Niggernerd (Oct 10, 2019)

should of just let Japan conquer China during the Second sino-japanese war.


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## Clop (Oct 10, 2019)

> A 5% ownership in Blizzard was enough to severely restrict speech and withdraw an award.


I really have to disagree with this statement. It's not any amount of ownership that is making Blizzard shrivel, it's that China is Blizzard's main market. Video game market economy 101: China loves microtransactions and it has whales by the absolute fuckton. It is a dream marketplace for a piecemeal shitty company like Activision-Blizzy to milk on. The rest of the free world combined can suck dick in their bank books, they're more than happy to sacrifice the rest of the market if they can sell solely to China. Pissing off the Chinese government would mean losing rights to selling their shit to the Chinese playerbase so they will always come first.

Sorry, slightly rant-y over something minor. It's just a detail that really gets in my craw. Even if there was 0% ownership, Blizzard would still bend over.


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## Irrational Exuberance (Oct 10, 2019)

Even if you want to just punish the government, you end up punishing the common people, as well. If the US wants to wage economic warfare, they had better think hard about how they can convince the Chinese people that they aren't just trying to destroy them, because the government will certainly be blasting the opposite at full volume.

Do the Chinese still give any credence to the "Mandate of Heaven" philosophy?


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## I Love Beef (Oct 10, 2019)

Irrational Exuberance said:


> Even if you want to just punish the government, you end up punishing the common people, as well. If the US wants to wage economic warfare, they had better think hard about how they can convince the Chinese people that they aren't just trying to destroy them, because the government will certainly be blasting the opposite at full volume.
> 
> Do the Chinese still give any credence to the "Mandate of Heaven" philosophy?


No, they don't. They threw out their emperor system ages ago.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Oct 10, 2019)

Clop said:


> I really have to disagree with this statement. It's not any amount of ownership that is making Blizzard shrivel, it's that China is Blizzard's main market. Video game market economy 101: China loves microtransactions and it has whales by the absolute fuckton. It is a dream marketplace for a piecemeal shitty company like Activision-Blizzy to tard cum on. The rest of the free world combined can suck dick in their bank books, they're more than happy to sacrifice the rest of the market if they can sell solely to China. Pissing off the Chinese government would mean losing rights to selling their shit to the Chinese playerbase so they will always come first.
> 
> Sorry, slightly rant-y over something minor. It's just a detail that really gets in my craw. Even if there was 0% ownership, Blizzard would still bend over.


Just let Mao steal all food in exchange for crap in vidyagames.


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## GrandmotherDeathsed (Oct 10, 2019)

HeyItsHarveyMacClout said:


> You misunderstand. China has a POTENTIAL economy (I.E: There are huge profits to be made in the future), they have the economy of a paper tiger right now. They have 5x the population and less than have the GDP. They might have large numbers, but they can't bring those numbers to bear.



Yeah their economy can't fuck us all right back, they're what harvey said. A paper tiger. Huge numbers don't mean huge success


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## Crabbo (Oct 10, 2019)

I think we should crash it.
Heading over to delete their system 32 now.


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## BILLY MAYS (Oct 10, 2019)

> *Should We Crash China's Economy? *



Can we accomplish this by shitposting in an autism forum?


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## Coke Pope (Oct 10, 2019)

Considering that the US wasn't even able to destroy Cuba's economy and Cuba thrived despite the embargo, how is the US going to destroy China's economy exactly?
If you think that the US is powerful enough to do so I think you may be an Amerimutt with delusional dreams of grandeur.

Oh, also, the Chinese government owns 10% of the American debt, so if you destroy the chink economy you will destroy you economy as well.
So good luck at that Amerimutts.


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## millais (Oct 10, 2019)

I get that the Thucydides Trap is a tricky one, but surely the answer is not to voluntarily blunder straight into it.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Oct 10, 2019)

millais said:


> I get that the Thucydides Trap is a tricky one, but surely the answer is not to voluntarily blunder straight into it.


Too late, we've larped too hard as the neo-Athenian Empire, now we *will* reap the whirlwind of our actions.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (Oct 10, 2019)

Coke Pope said:


> Considering that the US wasn't even able to destroy Cuba's economy and Cuba thrived despite the embargo, how is the US going to destroy China's economy exactly?
> If you think that the US is powerful enough to do so I think you may be an Amerimutt with delusional dreams of grandeur.
> 
> Oh, also, the Chinese government owns 10% of the American debt, so if you destroy the chink economy you will destroy you economy as well.
> So good luck at that Amerimutts.


The US ties with Cuba were never quite this deep and involved a different kind of trade based on gambling, hookers, sugar and booze. As long as Cuba shakes their ass to that tune, they can make money forever especially since they're providing a real good, everyone wants a slice and it's just a small island.

China is leveraged to all hell though and so much of it was put together through financial fuckery. Leveraging debt, using tax benefits, huge amounts of state intervention to specifically undermine global markets and IP theft are all put together to support a massive population and state economy. They have so many more moving parts that they have to specifically calibrate so it doesn't fall apart while Cuba just doesn't.


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## Pixy (Oct 10, 2019)

Irrational Exuberance said:


> Even if you want to just punish the government, you end up punishing the common people, as well. If the US wants to wage economic warfare, they had better think hard about how they can convince the Chinese people that they aren't just trying to destroy them, because the government will certainly be blasting the opposite at full volume.
> 
> Do the Chinese still give any credence to the "Mandate of Heaven" philosophy?


We've already failed on that front with the Iranians - I doubt it'd work on the middle-class Chinese who would experience a drastic decline in their QOL. A foreign government's propaganda won't put bread on the table.


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## Notgoodwithusernames (Oct 10, 2019)

I think we should set up armed insurgent groups all across China


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## Recoil (Oct 10, 2019)

RedRightHand said:


> To my knowledge not yet, but they are getting quite far with AI technologies and cloning, anything productive that comes of that, we should steal.


That would enable us to grab the knowhow without engaging in the inhuman degeneracy required to get it firsthand.


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## Lemmingwise (Oct 10, 2019)

I can't believe all this dissident talk I'm hearing. Calling for boycotts on China should be as illegal as calling for boycotts on Israel.

Though on the plus side my social credit increased 10 points for reporting you. Sorry, it won't be good for your social credit rating.


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## Secret Asshole (Oct 10, 2019)

Irrational Exuberance said:


> Even if you want to just punish the government, you end up punishing the common people, as well. If the US wants to wage economic warfare, they had better think hard about how they can convince the Chinese people that they aren't just trying to destroy them, because the government will certainly be blasting the opposite at full volume.
> 
> Do the Chinese still give any credence to the "Mandate of Heaven" philosophy?



It'd be a lot better than a real war would be. It'd force a change in government. Besides, this isn't about hearts and minds. This is about our people, our sovereignty. I get the common guy on the street is going to get hurt. So is basically the rest of the world. But this shit has to stop. I'm not unsympathetic to the average Chinese citizen. 

But unless we can convince somebody to go hari-kari on Xi or give him the good old Soviet treatment of an icepick to the skull or two behind the ear, I don't know what else is there except to massively punish any interest that invests with them. 



millais said:


> I get that the Thucydides Trap is a tricky one, but surely the answer is not to voluntarily blunder straight into it.



I mean, what do you think is going to happen when inevitably Xi's power starts to wane and China exercises so much unilateral control over the South China sea, the countries there are going to get into armed conflict with him? I mean, this is a guy so concerned about projecting his strength, he's willing to scrub the entire internet of a cartoon character on the off chance it might be used to lampoon him.

Obviously, I posed a question, not a statement. I don't believe we'll blunder into war. I believe the damage would be so extensive, that a war would not be cost-effective or undo what we did or that the damage would be so rapid, and so sudden, mobilization would be pointless. I do think if Xi believes his power is slipping, he'll start one. 

Also with the Thucydides Trap, we've got hindsight on a lot of it. We don't know if China is rising or waning. It seems to depend on the day of the week, because I remember books 10 years ago predicting that they'd be super dominant. And its far from that. So we might fall into the trap anyway with China wanting to correct internal weakness with an external show of force. 

In the coming years, they might also lose the rare earth market as Japan has found a near infinite bed of them off of their coast. So they're looking at trouble from multiple directions. 



BILLY MAYS said:


> Can we accomplish this by shitposting in an autism forum?



You know what I meant.

Besides, shitposting got a US President elected. 



Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> The US ties with Cuba were never quite this deep and involved a different kind of trade based on gambling, hookers, sugar and booze. As long as Cuba shakes their ass to that tune, they can make money forever especially since they're providing a real good, everyone wants a slice and it's just a small island.
> 
> China is leveraged to all hell though and so much of it was put together through financial fuckery. Leveraging debt, using tax benefits, huge amounts of state intervention to specifically undermine global markets and IP theft are all put together to support a massive population and state economy. They have so many more moving parts that they have to specifically calibrate so it doesn't fall apart while Cuba just doesn't.



Exactly this. China's stock market nearly collapsed until China, literally, put people at gunpoint to make it not. China's economic strength is a very big '?' because we really don't know what goes on because the CCP is extremely secretive. But its a lot weaker than it looks. 

They're building ghost cities with concrete so bad that the building won't last five years. China has to exercise a massive amount of control over a system built on popsicle sticks and elmer's glue. Throw a little bit of chaos and they're scrambling to pick it up.


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## los pepes (Oct 10, 2019)

Coke Pope said:


> Considering that the US wasn't even able to destroy Cuba's economy and Cuba thrived despite the embargo, how is the US going to destroy China's economy exactly?
> If you think that the US is powerful enough to do so I think you may be an Amerimutt with delusional dreams of grandeur.
> 
> Oh, also, the Chinese government owns 10% of the American debt, so if you destroy the chink economy you will destroy you economy as well.
> So good luck at that Amerimutts.


Which is like 1.5 trillion dollars. We piss away that much on air conditioning for our misadventures in the shitbox.


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## mr.moon1488 (Oct 10, 2019)

Imperial Japan did nothing wrong.



Secret Asshole said:


> Yeah, you can't just cut off China's access to Africa. China is extraordinarily reactionary like I said. Just look at the South China Sea. Despite having 'China' in the name, its claimed by multiple countries who are very close to it. Even that has to be with a tender touch. If we crater their shit into the ground, Africa will be the least of their worries.
> 
> EDIT:
> Oh and the last time the French got involved in Africa it caused the migrant crisis by convincing us to obliterate Libiya. Lets not let the frogs in on anything where they can fuck it up.


With the Africa thing, it might be possible to force Chinese apologists in the media to pick between China, and their own political interests.  Bellow is a picture of anti-suicide nets at Chinese factories.  They basically treat their own people as slave labor, so I can't imagine they treat Africans at their holdings there much better.  If information could be found on this, and put out everywhere, it could force the apologists to tell the truth about China.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Oct 11, 2019)

I say we just confiscate all their women. 
It'll hurt China, and also solve our incel issue.
Two birds and all.


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## AnOminous (Oct 11, 2019)

It could ultimately lead to a nuclear war or the end of the world but if it's that or end up overrun and controlled by this vile, insect-like culture, with no freedom or rights, I'd say fuck it, go for it.


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## mr.moon1488 (Oct 11, 2019)

NOT Sword Fighter Super said:


> I say we just confiscate all their women.
> It'll hurt China, and also solve our incel issue.
> Two birds and all.


Mao actually offered to send the US 10 million women at one point.


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## BR55 (Oct 11, 2019)

Comicsgeist said:


> People forget the 'historical context' around how this all came about.
> The West is largely responsible for China's rise, it's about time it got busy with it's fall.
> China rose in the wake of all that post 1989 optimism that came with the fall of the Berlin Wall ,which Francis Fukuyama described in his infamous article 'The End of History'.
> 
> ...


If there is any justice left in our world then NeoLiberalism will be remembered as one of the most destructive and evil ideologies to ever exist.
Although it's devastation has been wrought not by war, not the majority of it anyway but there has been plenty of conflict caused by it, but instead by credulous morons with delusions of utopia selling out their rights and freedoms for a few extra bucks.
Fukuyama and his managerial state buddies deserve to go down as the biggest group of retards in history.


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## AnOminous (Oct 11, 2019)

BR55 said:


> Fukuyama and his managerial state buddies deserve to go down as the biggest group of exceptional individuals in history.



I haven't heard the name Fukuyama in a while.  Somehow, his idiot idea of "The End of History" came crashing down along with the Twin Towers.  Nobody really took him seriously after that shit.

FUCK that guy and his bullshit.


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## Lemmingwise (Oct 11, 2019)

Comicsgeist said:


> aparthied in S.A had been dismantled



Apartheid in south africa had been dismantled by terrorist soviet-funded organisation (ANC) that routinely set people on fire, placed bombs and used re-education propaganda camps. It was more of a dismantlement of liberalism than it was the start of it. There were far bigger anti-colonialist/racial equality movements than the ANC, but they didn't have the financial and weapon support from the Soviets, like Nelson Mandela's ANC.

Honestly, I think your perspective is flawed. All those ideology ideas are in the end another type of kabuki shadowplay.

I don't think Brexit would have happened if schengen zone and mass migration wasn't an essential part one must accept to be part of the EU. Similarly, I don't think Trump would have gotten the republican nomination if he didn't go farther right on immigration than the others in the GOP, in the time before he campaigned against the democrats. And the fact that both these interests despite having popular support have been blocked, are a clear sign of what is to come and who is pulling the puppet's strings.

On the whole, it's nice to hear people are starting to feel a little threatened by China, but I think people are overestimating the capacity to mount any meaningful resistance, as people aren't even able to enact relatively simple and popular immigration restrictions.


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## Stoneheart (Oct 11, 2019)

Send them all the migrants and watch them explode.


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## Manwithn0n0men (Oct 11, 2019)

Clop said:


> I really have to disagree with this statement. It's not any amount of ownership that is making Blizzard shrivel, it's that China is Blizzard's main market. Video game market economy 101: China loves microtransactions and it has whales by the absolute fuckton. It is a dream marketplace for a piecemeal shitty company like Activision-Blizzy to tard cum on. The rest of the free world combined can suck dick in their bank books, they're more than happy to sacrifice the rest of the market if they can sell solely to China. Pissing off the Chinese government would mean losing rights to selling their shit to the Chinese playerbase so they will always come first.
> 
> Sorry, slightly rant-y over something minor. It's just a detail that really gets in my craw. Even if there was 0% ownership, Blizzard would still bend over.



Also Chinese lenders fund Blizzard's development


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Oct 11, 2019)

NOT Sword Fighter Super said:


> I say we just confiscate all their women.
> It'll hurt China, and also solve our incel issue.
> Two birds and all.


Most incels are also White supremacists.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Oct 11, 2019)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> Most incels are also White supremacists.


A lot of White supremacist also suffer massive cognitive dissonance over their yellow fever, so...


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Oct 11, 2019)

mr.moon1488 said:


> Mao actually offered to send the US 10 million women at one point.


I sure as hell hope we took him up on that.



Webby's Boyfriend said:


> Most incels are also White supremacists.


And a good amount of white supremacists also have an Asian fetish.


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## Never Scored (Oct 11, 2019)

NOT Sword Fighter Super said:


> I sure as hell hope we took him up on that.



They got sent back because their feet were all fucked up.


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## Lemmingwise (Oct 11, 2019)

Webby's Boyfriend said:


> Most incels are also White supremacists.


Wizard powers allow them to scry the true value of each type in the bestiary.


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## Syaoran Li (Oct 11, 2019)

Coke Pope said:


> Considering that the US wasn't even able to destroy Cuba's economy and Cuba thrived despite the embargo, how is the US going to destroy China's economy exactly?
> If you think that the US is powerful enough to do so I think you may be an Amerimutt with delusional dreams of grandeur.
> 
> Oh, also, the Chinese government owns 10% of the American debt, so if you destroy the chink economy you will destroy you economy as well.
> So good luck at that Amerimutts.



As others have said, Cuba's economy was smaller and less dependent on foreign trade with other large economies, unlike China, who needs to sell shoddy exports to North America, Europe, and Oceania to stay afloat. Cuba's main sector of the economy was agriculture, followed by blackjack and hookers. 

While the United States may have cut off Cuba, no one else did. Cuba is a small and unimportant country compared to China. When we put the embargo on them in the early 1960's, it meant nothing. Part of it was because the Soviets kept them propped up, but the more important part was that none of the other Western powers placed harsh sanctions on Cuba.

We put the embargo on Cuba mainly because the Castro Regime was an issue of border security since they're less than 100 miles from Miami. 

China is a global power and if we embargo the fuck out of them, it could motivate other countries to place sanctions on them.

The Chinese attempt to colonize Africa via the Belt and Road initiative always seemed to be more of a "Plan B" to prop up the economy via all those raw natural resources in Africa, either as a means to give their paper tiger actual claws or as a fall back in the unlikely event that the West gets pissed off enough to tell them to fuck off.


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## The best and greatest (Oct 11, 2019)

RedRightHand said:


> To my knowledge not yet, but they are getting quite far with AI technologies and cloning, anything productive that comes of that, we should steal.


This is America. We don't "Steal" we "Liberate"



Coke Pope said:


> Oh, also, the Chinese government owns 10% of the American debt, so if you destroy the chink economy you will destroy you economy as well.
> So good luck at that Amerimutts.


Which is why if you're going to go as far as tanking their economy you might as well just go to war. You don't owe debts to the PRC if the PRC don't exist no more.If America should learn anything from the last time we had a rival in the pacific its not to bother with half-measures.


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## Takayuki Yagami (Oct 11, 2019)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> Calling the Chinese Communist progressives "reactionary" is insane and an insult to reactionaries like monarchists, who hate them for them obvious reasons. China is _the _inevitable result of left-wing politics- it is the opposite of a reactionary state. That said:
> 
> Tank their economy. We can take the hit.


They’re reactionary in the non-political sense ie. paranoid, aggressive, and absurdly thin-skinned.


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## Recoil (Oct 11, 2019)

Their economy will tank itself, eventually. Keep building empty cities so's you can lie about your GDP, see how long that stays viable.


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## Foltest (Oct 11, 2019)

the only good red is a dead red. The west has been too nice to China for long time and how have they paid back? Kidnapping citzen of the west and putting them in prison back in China, massive IP theft and runing one of the worst police states in the world. I want their economy to crash so hard that I can hear it from europa. The leaders of the EU have been fucking pussies when it come to China.


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## AnOminous (Oct 11, 2019)

Foltest said:


> the only good red is a dead red. The west has been too nice to China for long time and how have they paid back? Kidnapping citzen of the west and putting them in prison back in China, massive IP theft and runing one of the worst police states in the world. I want their economy to crash so hard that I can hear it from europa. The leaders of the EU have been fucking pussies when it come to China.



So has the United States, giving it Most Favored Nation status for no reason but Wal-Mart's profits, a move that not only benefited China at the expense of American manufacturers, but basically killed the mom and pop store across the entire country as an engine of our GDP.  Now people who would have previously been working at or owning shops like that are forced into Wal-Mart slavery.


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## BillionBisonBucks (Oct 11, 2019)

America couldn't handle losing a few banks, tanking China would send us directly to Mad Max-Land


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## Manwithn0n0men (Oct 11, 2019)

BillionBisonBucks said:


> America couldn't handle losing a few banks, tanking China would send us directly to Mad Max-Land


We are China's bank however


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## BillionBisonBucks (Oct 11, 2019)

Manwithn0n0men said:


> We are China's bank however


Meaning they've hooked themselves directly into the keystone of our entire economy.


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## Slap47 (Oct 11, 2019)

Its better to let ideas fail on their own merit.

Here is a good example: Socialism in Latin America. 

The USA toppled left-leaning democracies and let kleptocractic feudal dictatorships take their place.  The fall of these regimes saw the rise of leftwing governments for decades as these left-leaning leaders became nationalist freedom fighters. 

.... Its been a few decades without dictatorships and most of Latin America is right leaning democracies dominated by social conservatives. The leftwing populism failed horribly due to their culture of patronage and they couldn't really blame America.

In Cuba and Venezuela the USA has attempted coups and undermined the regimes. The people blame America instead of their own governments and the failed policies chug on. 



BillionBisonBucks said:


> America couldn't handle losing a few banks, tanking China would send us directly to Mad Max-Land



And China would fall apart without access to the oceans and consumers to buy their stuff.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Oct 13, 2019)

I'm all for tanking China's economy and hope there is a famine that returns them to their humble cannibalistic origins (Like Albert Fish narrated) but if China falls many other countries would follow. Why? Because China has gotten its filthy hands into many other places.

The most affected would be African countries, where China is pretty much a colonial power but cannot enforce an organized and structured rule around like the colonial empires of old. They have been financing many infrastructure and housing projects, but the inefficiency, thievery and corruption of the average african person has made such projects nearly impossible, making China operate at a loss with many african nations. But that is of no concern since they want to put all of them in their debt to squeeze their natural resources at an advantage against other nations.

The second most affected would be Europe. Southern Europe to be more precise. In the last economic crisis, when the PIGS (Acronym used to refer to the countries of southern Europe) were about to crash because they were mired in debt, China moved in and bought as much debt as they could. If China goes under in the next 50 years it would inevitably drag most of southern Europe with them because they have around half the debt of the countries, probably causing the EU to shit their pants in the process for a second time.

As much as China is a blight on the planet and it would be nice to hold next to no power in international politics, at this point they are kind of a necessary evil for the time being.


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## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Oct 13, 2019)

@Secret Asshole 
I agree with you. The west should do more to dismantle China's global influence and any outside influence that can be exerted to create cultural change or more recently in the case of the US censorship. I think people forget the fact that China and the Chinese economy is not built on the idea of a free market industry in the same way Americans understand their corporatism. 

The opening of the Chinese economy was expressly done by the CCP as a means of creating more outward growth, having witnessed the fall of the Soviet Union in part due to small growth factors and lack of access to outside markets and western economies in general. All the while maintaining ties or influential controls, stake holdings, and other factors in these "Companies" in order to make sure that they stuck to the establishments business models. 

China in the Hong Kong negotiations didn't actually want Hong Kong back because of any re-unification bunk sold to the press at the time. They wanted it because Hong Kong had been built up by the British as being the major financial centre of Asia outside of Japan. The benefit of taking Hong Kong back was that it already had a financial and world trade infrastructure that the mainland didn't have. 

Had the British actually not handed over Hong Kong, China would not have made any military actions in order to reclaim it, because despite having a sizable army, the PLA is more of an enforcement army than one meant for military excursions, as well as it going against Chinese financial interests to risk war with a western nation. 

This is the main reason that anyone who says China will go to war with the US is talking out of their asses. China is an industrial parasitic economy, it needs the sale of Chinese good to outside interest in order to keep their economy afloat and war with any major western economy would mean not only the loss of any potential investments or funds within that economy, but also a complete default on any debt obligations to Chinese firms and lenders, as well as a massive blow to their manufacturers.

As for the CCP knowing it's economy is a paper tiger, you need only look at some of the more recent corruption scandals withing the CCP itself and also Chinese held firms. 

Any country whose wealthy citizens engage in aggressive land banking or buying holdings in foreign companies shows an internal lack of stability. You see this with Russian Oligarch, Saudi's and other Arabs, and more over the Chinese, who have been buying aggressively in Australia, American, Canada, and Britain. All stable western democracies that have a deep held tradition of respecting property rights, regardless of the owners national background. 

There is further evidence when you see private Chinese companies also buy stakeholdings in foreign firms, even those that could be considered direct competitors. These are the elites of China hedging their bets. Same goes for education, most of the mainland or Hong Kong Chinese you see come over as students in western universities are from wealthy families with direct ties to the CCP. 

Crashing it's economy wouldn't be difficult, if anything you could make the argument it would be better for the world economy in general, especially developing market in Africa and India as well as Western markets, but the major issue with that lies in the fact that people are so used to buying Chinese goods, that most western countries outside of America don't have the industrial capacity anymore, the outsourcing has been so savage, or the fact that the Joe Bloggs of those countries are going to have to get used to the idea, that you won't be able to buy your crap for rock bottom prices.


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## A_right_horrorshow (Oct 13, 2019)

How? Are we all going over there to personally liberate forced labour camps?cos I gotta say if you want to see what happens when you free slaves all willy nilly just look at Detroit and how much that improved the economy.


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## Black Waltz (Oct 13, 2019)

We're in too deep, it wouldn't be a good idea to try and fuck with them now


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## Secret Asshole (Oct 13, 2019)

BillionBisonBucks said:


> America couldn't handle losing a few banks, tanking China would send us directly to Mad Max-Land



If its either that or being owned by the reds, I chose the end of the world. Liberty or Death motherfuckers. Like @AnOminous said.



Malagor the dank omen said:


> As much as China is a blight on the planet and it would be nice to hold next to no power in international politics, at this point they are kind of a necessary evil for the time being.



I've loathed China for a long, long time. From massive outsourcing, to its strangle-hold on rare Earth mining, to its massive theft of IP and US secrets, from forging scientific studies, for making our sociopathic, traitorous corporations bend the knee, to slavery, to its absolute destruction of its own environment, to its stranglehold on cheap manufacturing creating our rust belt and destroying parts of the US, from basically owning Africa and ripping it apart so its enemies have to deal with the consequences, for being completely disingenuous and unscrupulous in pretty much every economic dealing, from its absolute arrogance and thin skin, to its fake fucking economy that is a disaster waiting to happen, to exporting cheap opioids ramping up our own epidemic....yeah, I haven't liked China for a long fucking time. But nobody gives a shit. And this is the straw that broke it for me. 

I don't care anymore. I'm tired of appeasing these arrogant, insect-hive minded fucks. Every fucking time, the world bends the knee. EVERY. TIME. Its all fucking talk when it comes to the Chinese. Nobody wants to move because its 'bad for business'. I am just tired of it. Time to take a blowtorch to them. Fucking appeasement, Jesus Christ. Worked so fucking well before. 



Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> @Secret Asshole
> I agree with you. The west should do more to dismantle China's global influence and any outside influence that can be exerted to create cultural change or more recently in the case of the US censorship. I think people forget the fact that China and the Chinese economy is not built on the idea of a free market industry in the same way Americans understand their corporatism.
> 
> The opening of the Chinese economy was expressly done by the CCP as a means of creating more outward growth, having witnessed the fall of the Soviet Union in part due to small growth factors and lack of access to outside markets and western economies in general. All the while maintaining ties or influential controls, stake holdings, and other factors in these "Companies" in order to make sure that they stuck to the establishments business models.
> ...



I have absolutely no doubts that the British should have held onto Hong Kong and never gave it over. Fucking idiots. If Hong Kong was owned by America, that shit never would have happened. 

Crashing its economy would hurt, a lot. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fucking moron. But if its going to crash, a controlled demolition is better than a free-fall and that's what I'm proposing. Because their economy is built on a house of absolute horseshit and nobody actually knows what the fuck is actually going on because China are serial liars who enforce that with a bullet. You're only going off information they give you, which is laughable. And the way Xi is projecting and how thin his skin is, I predict its not that fucking great. 

Yeah, China wouldn't go to war. If we crashed or were actually crashing its economy, it'd break and let us do what we want. The problem is there are too many US interests that want that sexy hive-mind money and want to sell our freedom for it. It'd definitely fuck them over, which I have absolutely NO problem with. I'd love for them to get fucked and their CEOs slitting their wrists. Problem is there's just no will to do this. It'd be a fuck ton better for the world economy. It'd enrich nations and we could use a democratic partner like India for our cheap manufacturing if that's what we really want. You know, one that values freedom and is our long-time ally. Just a fucking thought there. 

The problem is there's just no will to do it. There should be, as a world economy shouldn't be centered around a fucking communist authoritarian shit hole. Maybe it will collapse on its own. But it will be far more chaotic than if we just bite the bullet and just did it ourselves. It won't happen though. Too many globohomo interests love Chinese cock and our corporations would whine and pay off our politicians. So its just a thought experiment, yes. 

But we're just surrendering ourselves to them and only ensuring when that inevitable fall comes, it will hurt harder than anything I've proposed.


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## Unog (Oct 13, 2019)

Yes. Emphatically yes.



Coke Pope said:


> Oh, also, the Chinese government owns 10% of the American debt, so if you destroy the chink economy you will destroy you economy as well.
> So good luck at that Amerimutts.



...which in turn will fuck over all of the rest of you, crashing this shitheap with no survivors. I'm okay with that.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Oct 13, 2019)

Secret Asshole said:


> I don't care anymore. I'm tired of appeasing these arrogant, insect-hive minded fucks. Every fucking time, the world bends the knee. EVERY. TIME. Its all fucking talk when it comes to the Chinese. Nobody wants to move because its 'bad for business'. I am just tired of it. Time to take a blowtorch to them. Fucking appeasement, Jesus Christ. Worked so fucking well before.


We are in the same page, brudda. I'm also tired because China is but a sump in humanity. Nothing but a plague that needs to be purged from the planet and then the world would be better for once. The bad thing is that almost nobody in the planet would give up a single thing in order to do the inmesurable good that is sending China to ruin and never let them get back up. No one wants to give up their fancy computers, their brand sports clothes and their cheap home appliances, all produced in some unknown sweatshop by an enslaved woman that cannot kill herself because they put new anti suicide nets at the factory. Our corporations will continue to suck the dick of China for the obvious reason that it is the biggest market on earth. Are you going to give up those millions of people that will stroll like the mindless cattle they are to throw money at your subpar products? Of course not! Only an idiot would give up profits before morals because morals don't make investors happy. And this "Chinese marketing" mentality is extending to every single fucking type of good, even videogames. And it pisses me off to no end.

And those who don't bend the knee to China get buttfucked. You know that an European bus company got kicked out of China? And you know why? They didn't worked how the chinese wanted them to work. Instead of running buses on time, in China the driver waits for the bus to fill completely and then he leaves, making public transportation a complete and unreliable mess.

We gotta do like Germany and put money on goods made in our own countries. Because Germans may be a bunch of cucks, but at least they are willing to pay more just for something that says "Made in Germany".

Edit: Also, i found out that the fucking central commitee in China gets to elect the bishops with the approval of the fucking Pope after a deal was struck between the Vatican and the Chinese government. With this the Vatican can allow Catholics in China to have proper worship while the chinese government has a brand new organization to wash their image with.


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