# I have a theory on the downfall of the West



## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

I was watching Adam Curtis' series The Trap today, and it hit me right on the title card: Humanity cannot be trusted, only the numbers can.  What a shit idea, even if the masses lie they are the point, right?  But what if you are trying to better the world and become myopic?  Numbers do lie considerably less as people feel their day-to-day choices are less scrutinized then when they are explicitly asked their opinion.  Of course that's true.  So how do you know if you are helping Americans or just hammering nails because being a hammer is what you are hired to be?  What happens when, across generations, policies become ideological lodestone rather than temporary measures?  If you are just running the numbers and analyzing your opponent using game theory, at what point does America stop overthrowing other governments?  It doesn't, the math always suggested they carry out their stupidity at the intelligence agencies, that is why we are in this mess.

In 1903, the U.S. aided the secession of Panama from the Republic of Colombia, engineered by a Panamanian faction backed by the Panama Canal Company, a French–US corporation whose aim was the construction of a waterway across the Isthmus of Panama thus connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
The Banana Wars occupations, police actions, and interventions on the part of the United States in Central America and the Caribbean between the end of the Spanish–American War in 1898 and the inception of the Good Neighbor Policy in 1934.
Occupations of Cuba by United States military forces, lasting from 1898–1902 & from 1906 to 1909.
The United States occupation of Veracruz began with the Battle of Veracruz and lasted for seven months, as a response to nine American sailors arrested by the Mexican government for entering off-limit areas in Tampico, Tamaulipas on April 9, 1914.
The U.S. occupied Haiti from 1915 to 1934.
U.S. marines invaded the Dominican Republic and occupied it from 1916 to 1924.
On September 8, 1945, the United States government landed forces in Korea and thereafter established the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGK) to govern Korea south of the 38th parallel north. The USAMGK outlawed the USSR approved Korean-led government in their respective half north of the 38th parallel. The military governor Lieutenant-General John R. Hodge later said that "one of our missions was to break down this Communist government".
*Project SHAMROCK*, the sister project for Project MINARET, was an espionage exercise started in August 1945, which involved the accumulation of all telegraphic data entering into or exiting from the United States. The Armed Forces Security Agency (AFSA) and its successor, the National Security Agency (NSA), were given direct access to daily microfilm copies of all incoming, outgoing, and transiting telegrams via the Western Union and its associates RCA and ITT. NSA did the operational interception, and, if there was information that would be of interest to other intelligence agencies, the material was passed to them. Intercepted messages were disseminated to the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs (BNDD), and the Department of Defense. No court authorized the operation and there were no warrants.
The democratically elected government of Shukri al-Quwatli was overthrown by a junta led by the Syrian Army chief of staff at the time, Husni al-Za'im, who became President of Syria on April 11, 1949. Za'im had extensive connections to CIA operatives, although the exact nature of U.S. involvement in the coup remains highly controversial. The construction of the Trans-Arabian Pipeline, which had been held up in the Syrian parliament, was approved by Za'im, the new president, just over a month after the coup.
In Operation Paper, which began in early 1951, secret flights from Thailand to Burma,  Civil Air Transport  aircraft (CAT, later named Air America), an airline co-owned and operated by the CIA and the Kuomintang in Taiwan, flown by pilots hired by the CIA brought American weapons and other supplies to the Kuomintang. To secretly finance the Kuomintang in Burma, on return flights the CAT aircraft transported opium from the Kuomintang to Chinese organized crime drug traffickers in Bangkok, Thailand.
CIA officer Kermit Roosevelt Jr. was dispatched by the State Department to meet with Farouk I of the Kingdom of Egypt. American policy at that time was to convince Farouk to introduce reforms that would weaken the appeal of Egyptian radicals and stabilize Farouk's grip on power. The U.S. was notified in advance of the successful July coup led by nationalist and anti-communist Egyptian military officers (the "Free Officers") that replaced the Egyptian monarchy with the Republic of Egypt under the leadership of Mohamed Naguib and Gamal Abdel Nasser. CIA officer Miles Copeland Jr. recounted in his memoirs that Roosevelt helped coordinate the coup during three prior meetings with the plotters (including Nasser, the future Egyptian president); this has not been confirmed by declassified documents but is partially supported by circumstantial evidence.
The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the *28 Mordad coup d'état*, was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953. It was orchestrated by the United States (under the name *TPAJAX Project* or "*Operation Ajax*") and the United Kingdom (under the name "*Operation Boot*").
In a CIA operation code named Operation PBSuccess, the U.S. government executed a coup that was successful in overthrowing the democratically elected government of President Jacobo Árbenz and installed Carlos Castillo Armas.
*HTLINGUAL* (also *HGLINGUAL*), a secret project of the United States of America's Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to intercept mail destined for the Soviet Union and China, operated from 1952 until 1973. Originally known under the codename *SRPOINTER* (also *SGPOINTER*), the project authority was changed in 1955 and renamed. Early on, the CIA collected only the names and addresses appearing on the exterior of mailed items, but they were later opened at CIA facilities in Los Angeles and in New York. The program had the stated purpose of obtaining foreign intelligence, but it targeted domestic peace and civil-rights activists as well. Mail to and from prominent individuals such as Bella Abzug, Bobby Fischer, Linus Pauling, John Steinbeck, Martin Luther King Jr., Edward Albee, and Hubert Humphrey was opened during the course of the operation. A total of 28 million letters were examined, and 215,000 were opened.
*COINTELPRO* (syllabic abbreviation derived from COunter INTELligence PROgram)  was a series of covert and illegal projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic American political organizations.
Starting in 1962, the NSA had a "watch list" of Americans travelling to Cuba, expanded to include narcotic traffickers. Then, from 1967 onwards, President Lyndon B. Johnson included the names of activists in the anti-war movement. President Richard Nixon further expanded the list to include civil rights leaders, journalists and two senators. The NSA included David Kahn.
During the summer of 1962 Kennedy took steps, using the CIA, to spy on Hanson Baldwin, the national security reporter for _The New York Times_.
From mid-1963, the Kennedy administration became increasingly frustrated with South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem's corrupt and repressive rule and his persecution of the Buddhist majority. In light of Diem's refusal to adopt reforms, American officials debated whether they should support efforts to replace him. These debates crystallized after the ARVN Special Forces, which took their orders directly from the palace, raided Buddhist temples across the country, leaving a death toll estimated in the hundreds, and resulted in the dispatch of Cable 243 on August 24, 1963, which instructed United States Ambassador to South Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., to "examine all possible alternative leadership and make detailed plans as to how we might bring about Diem's replacement if this should become necessary". Lodge and his liaison officer, Lucien Conein, contacted discontented Army of the Republic of Vietnam officers and gave assurances that the US would not oppose a coup or respond with aid cuts. These efforts culminated in a coup d'état on November 2, 1963, during which Diem and his brother were assassinated.
Operation Brother Sam was the codename given to Kennedy's plan to "prevent Brazil from becoming another China or Cuba". Kennedy believed Goulart was getting too friendly with anti-American radicals in the Brazilian government.
From 1967 to 1973 under Project RESISTANCE, many local police departments, college campus staff members, and other independent informants collaborated with the CIA to keep track of student radical groups that opposed the U.S. government's foreign policies on Vietnam.
*Project MERRIMAC* was a sister domestic espionage operation to Project RESISTANCE coordinated under the Office of Security of the CIA. It involved information gathering procedures via infiltration and surveillance on Washington-based anti-war groups that might pose potential threats to the CIA.
The role of the CIA in Gladio—the extent of its activities during the Cold War era and any responsibility for terrorist attacks perpetrated in Italy during the "Years of Lead" (late 1960s to early 1980s)—are the subject of debate.
Syndicated columnist Jack Anderson published a series of classified documents indicating the Nixon administration, contrary to its public pronouncements, had favored Pakistan during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. After the revelations, Anderson and his staff, including Hume and his family, were briefly surveilled by the Central Intelligence Agency in 1972.
In November 2005, _Business Week_ reported that the FBI had issued tens of thousands of "national security letters" and had obtained one million financial records from the customers of targeted Las Vegas businesses. Selected businesses included casinos, storage warehouses and car rental agencies. An anonymous Justice official claimed that such requests were permitted under section 215 of the USA PATRIOT Act and despite the volume of requests insisted "We are not inclined to ask courts to endorse fishing expeditions". This didn't just include financial records, but credit records, employment records, and in some cases, health records.
Bank of America, the second-largest bank in the country, is coordinating with the government to search people who might have been in the Washington, D.C., area around the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol
TL;DR: Once you are in power; do you correct your policies according to the rioters, the mathematical measured outcomes, or your ideology? Or do you commit to not doing a thing, no matter how bad things get? Our politicians are using abstractions and models to decide what becomes horrible messes time and again.  They will keep doing this.


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## Dom Cruise (Feb 18, 2021)

Everything is building up to The Last War, the biggest war in human history that will dwarf the World Wars and will either render the human race extinct or usher in a utopia where there's never another war.


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## Beautiful Border (Feb 18, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Everything is building up to The Last War, the biggest war in human history that will dwarf the World Wars and will either render the human race extinct or usher in a utopia where there's never another war.


I wish. These days I'm more of the opinion that humanity will go out in a whimper rather than a bang.


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## Dom Cruise (Feb 18, 2021)

Beautiful Border said:


> I wish. These days I'm more of the opinion that humanity will go out in a whimper rather than a bang.


Nah, I feel there's no way we're not going to go out with a bang.

We probably can't even comprehend the levels of violence there's going to be in the future, it's going to be brutality on a level that can only be described as "alien"


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## Un Platano (Feb 18, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Everything is building up to The Last War, the biggest war in human history that will dwarf the World Wars and will either render the human race extinct or usher in a utopia where there's never another war.


I know it might be hard to imagine that you're wrong and that you are not in fact a prophet, but there were people who believed the exact same thing in 1914 about the first world war, with much the same conviction, and now we think of the phrase "The War to End All Wars" as a funny joke. Either scenario, total human extinction or neverending utopia, are fantasies.


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## Lemmingwise (Feb 18, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> Humanity cannot be trusted, only the numbers can


Ok but who recorded the numbers? Who stored them? Who interprets them? Who decides what interpretations are broadcast?



Haim Arlosoroff said:


> Once you are in power; do you correct your policies according to the rioters, the statistics, your ideology?


You do whatever the kennedy assassins tell you to do, or they'll release their epstein pics of you.




> I think the elites are making a very simple Mistake​



I feel like I clicked on clickbait. What mistake?


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## m4sk (Feb 18, 2021)

This is probably all true


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## Dom Cruise (Feb 18, 2021)

Un Platano said:


> I know it might be hard to imagine that you're wrong and that you are not in fact a prophet, but there were people who believed the exact same thing in 1914 about the first world war, with much the same conviction, and now we think of the phrase "The War to End All Wars" as a funny joke. Either scenario, total human extinction or neverending utopia, are fantasies.


WW1 was only a little over a hundred years ago, which isn't that long a span of time in the grand scheme of human history.

And to some degree what I'm talking about started with WW1, that was the first technological war, the first war where our destructive ability really started to get out of control.

And it's been a slow downward spiral to some degree ever since, WW1 set the stage for WW2 and WW2, although it's taking a long time, set the stage for WW3.

Maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic (who me?) and it won't lead to either human extinction or never ending utopia, but look at the situation in the west (and beyond it too) and tell me that isn't going to lead to another major war.

We had a golden opportunity after WW2 to get something close to a utopia, but we sure pissed that away.


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## Large (Feb 18, 2021)

why the long list of random stuff?


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## Foghot (Feb 18, 2021)

I expected femboy discussion.

Gay thread.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Ok but who recorded the numbers? Who stored them? Who interprets them? Who decides what interpretations are broadcast?


Statistics like GDP and unemployment are gathered by third parties, and broadcast by the media, universities, and idiots like myself on the internet.  During a war or the neverending domestic spying, the statistics are gathered by entry-level employees hoping for advancement or the very people advocating for federal policy.



Lemmingwise said:


> You do whatever the kennedy assassins tell you to do, or they'll release their epstein pics of you.


The mob, Israelis, and ex-pat Cubans walk into a dark room..



Lemmingwise said:


> I feel like I clicked on clickbait. What mistake?


The RAND corporation, Hayek, and the "Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust" have convinced British and American politicians to decide all their policies by statistics because they assume people lie about themselves so often you cannot base any policies on that.  The result is the deep state always acts according to their worst paranoia, which is why America keeps couping countries dispute all feedback and social result from the last time they tried that.



Large said:


> why the long list of random stuff?


I'm trying to show America keeps making the same mistake, game theory and statistics suggest spying and couping governments are great ideas despite all evidence to the contrary after the fact.


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## Un Platano (Feb 18, 2021)

Large said:


> why the long list of random stuff?


Normally I would say autism but this time I'm going with schizophrenia. It's a common writing style among legitimate schizophrenics: drop a whole bunch of unrelated statements (Wikipedia links are a favorite among those on the internet) and expect you to figure out how they all the puzzle pieces fit together, because it makes so much sense in their perfectly sound mind that it shouldn't need explaining.

 If OP is somehow neither of these then he is merely an awful writer who needs to learn how to structure a long essay and get to the point instead of writing giant incoherent walls of text.

I'm sticking to schizo though.


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## Beautiful Border (Feb 18, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Nah, I feel there's no way we're not going to go out with a bang.
> 
> We probably can't even comprehend the levels of violence there's going to be in the future, it's going to be brutality on a level that can only be described as "alien"


IMO it's a fool's errand to try and predict the future in any long-term sense. Hell, just look at how off-the-mark most of the predictions of what the world would be like today from ten years ago are. The world moves at such a fast pace these days that you can't really reliably predict any more than a few months into the future, and even that's questionable.

People have been predicting the imminent end of civilisation since it began. Just look at the Millerites who predicted the end of the world in 1844, leading to the  "Great Disappointment". The Jehovah's Witnesses have held firm that the end is imminent for over a century now. Even Jesus himself said to his apostles that they would live to see the apocalypse (one of the many things he said that theologians either conveniently ignore or perform Morshu beatboxing-esque mental gymnastics to try and explain away).

The only difference is that we now live in a post-religious society, so instead of using religion as the vehicle of the apocalypse we instead say that we'll wipe ourselves out with nuclear war or climate change. Apocalypticism has a two thousand year plus track record of being wrong, and I think as a concept it keeps appearing throughout history because people find it difficult to accept the fact that the world will continue to exist long after they themselves have gone, and in that sense it's quite a childish worldview.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

Un Platano said:


> Normally I would say autism but this time I'm going with schizophrenia. If OP is somehow neither of these then he is merely an awful writer who needs to learn how to structure a long essay and get to the point instead of writing giant incoherent walls of text.
> 
> I'm sticking to schizo though.


I am no _mere_ awful writer, I am a truly awful writer who needs to learn how to structure a long essay and get to the point instead of writing giant incoherent walls of text.

..although I sometimes hear male voices which were often unclear, but which seemed to pronounce the words "empty", "hollow", or "thud", and nothing else. I'm also paranoid about mRNA vaccines which seem to do nothing, and I quickly (_relatively_) typed out a long list of black ops American won't stop doing before going to the movie I mentioned .

Do you think its Sluggish schizophrenia?  I don't feel sluggish.


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## Dom Cruise (Feb 18, 2021)

Honestly, I need to lay off the doomerposting and lighten up a bit.


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## Un Platano (Feb 18, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> I am no _mere_ awful writer, I am a truly awful writer who needs to learn how to structure a long essay and get to the point instead of writing giant incoherent walls of text.
> 
> ..although I sometimes hear male voices which were often unclear, but which seemed to pronounce the words "empty", "hollow", or "thud", and nothing else. I'm also paranoid about mRNA vaccines which seem to do nothing, and I quickly (_relatively_) typed out a long list of black ops American won't stop doing before going to the movie I mentioned .
> 
> Do you think its Sluggish schizophrenia?  I don't feel sluggish.


No, I think it's regular schizophrenia. Please get help.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Honestly, I need to lay off the doomerposting and lighten up a bit.


Worse, what if your ideas are sound but they take decades to play out?  I think the 2020s, once this covid nonsense blows over, should be enjoyed because the internet and society at large will never be the same or as nice as they are now.  The worst that is going to play out in the timespan of the 20s is Venezuela might be invaded, but until the rising energy usage of the Saudis push them into a net importer of oil (25% and rising of their domestic production is domestically consumed) I don't foresee any natural reason to be worried in the short-term.

All things end though, that isn't absurd to assume.


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## Dom Cruise (Feb 18, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> Worse, what if your ideas are sound but they take decades to play out?  I think the 2020s, once this covid nonsense blows over, should be enjoyed because the internet and society at large will never be the same or as nice as they are now.  The worst that is going to play out in the timespan of the 20s is Venezuela might be invaded, but until the rising energy usage of the Saudis push them into a net importer of oil (25% and rising of their domestic production is domestically consumed) I don't foresee any natural reason to be worried in the short-term.
> 
> All things end though, that isn't absurd to assume.


What I was talking about I wasn't trying to imply will necessarily happen tomorrow but at some point in human history.

And yeah, in theory nothing lasts forever, right?


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> What I was talking about I wasn't trying to imply will necessarily happen tomorrow but at some point in human history.
> 
> And yeah, in theory nothing lasts forever, right?


I find the idea that the west is doomed causes me to engage with it more, that something could be lost forever makes it beautiful in a way.  We will never be here again, we will never be the same again.

I just wish the powers that be would stop using mathematical modeling and incentive structures to govern everything, the Vietnam war was lost to focusing on Loss exchange ratios rather than what could be done politically to deescalate the war, the NHS fell to Margret Thatcher's incentive scheme and "patient as consumer" myopia.  The morality and ethos of the West is dying to modeling and centralizing.  We are running out of ideas, and are content to dream smaller and smaller year after year.


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## Lemmingwise (Feb 18, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> Statistics like GDP and unemployment are gathered by third parties, and broadcast by the media, universities, and idiots like myself on the internet. During a war or the neverending domestic spying, the statistics are gathered by entry-level employees hoping for advancement or the very people advocating for federal policy.


So, humans.



Haim Arlosoroff said:


> I find the idea that the west is doomed causes me to engage with it more, that something could be lost forever makes it beautiful in a way.  We will never be here again, we will never be the same again.
> 
> I just wish the powers that be would stop using mathematical modeling and incentive structures to govern everything, the Vietnam war was lost to focusing on Loss exchange ratios rather than what could be done politically to deescalate the war, the NHS fell to Margret Thatcher's incentive scheme and "patient as consumer" myopia.  The morality and ethos of the West is dying to modeling and centralizing.  We are running out of ideas, and are content to dream smaller and smaller year after year.


Look politicians are doing that to escape blame and deep state is organising it this way so they can more easily control international affairs independant of current government. It's a way that politicians can get re-elected more easily.

Yes the centralizing is eroding all our freedoms and the semblance of democracy.

I guess what I'm surprised by is that you somehow think it is blundering or mistakes


Haim Arlosoroff said:


> 'Im trying to show America keeps making the same mistake, game theory and statistics suggest spying and couping governments are great ideas despite all evidence to the contrary after the fact.


Why the fuck do you think your long list are mistakes? The US managed to build and control their panama canal for as long as it was strategically valuable, for example.

Do you think the centralizing force that is squeezing the life out of middleclass is failing? Having people believe it is incompetence is one of the prime ways to keep people in the dark. "Ich habe es nicht gewusst".


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## lurk_moar (Feb 18, 2021)

I blame the fall of western civilization on the citizenry.

I mean look at all of the single moms and dysfunctional families.

Look at the way most parents are these days, lazy and unresponsive, not teaching their kids a god damn thing.

We as a society glory instant gratification and the easy way out instead of hard work and perseverance.

We are materialistic and hedonistic.

Look at how bad the education system is. They only teach outdated facts and obedience, not life skills, decision-making skills, or critical thinking skills. Just look at my clinical chemistry class unit on vitamins. Teaching the same old, same old myths about vitamins instead of the true facts.

We should be glorying education, not idiocracy.

If western civilization were to survive, we need a well-educated, questioning, able to think for themselves citizenry.


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## Syaoran Li (Feb 18, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> WW1 was only a little over a hundred years ago, which isn't that long a span of time in the grand scheme of human history.
> 
> And to some degree what I'm talking about started with WW1, that was the first technological war, the first war where our destructive ability really started to get out of control.
> 
> ...



Really, most of the geopolitical situations of the last 100 years can be traced back to World War I.

World War II, the Cold War, the endemic fuckery in the Middle East, and the Great Depression are all directly tied to World War I and its aftermath. Most of the other major situations like China, the War on Terror, the Antifa and BLM coups, the EU, et cetera, are all tied to the aftermath of World War II and the Cold War.

Really, World War I is to historical events what Kevin Bacon is to Hollywood movie stars.



Beautiful Border said:


> IMO it's a fool's errand to try and predict the future in any long-term sense. Hell, just look at how off-the-mark most of the predictions of what the world would be like today from ten years ago are. The world moves at such a fast pace these days that you can't really reliably predict any more than a few months into the future, and even that's questionable.
> 
> People have been predicting the imminent end of civilisation since it began. Just look at the Millerites who predicted the end of the world in 1844, leading to the  "Great Disappointment". The Jehovah's Witnesses have held firm that the end is imminent for over a century now. Even Jesus himself said to his apostles that they would live to see the apocalypse (one of the many things he said that theologians either conveniently ignore or perform Morshu beatboxing-esque mental gymnastics to try and explain away).
> 
> The only difference is that we now live in a post-religious society, so instead of using religion as the vehicle of the apocalypse we instead say that we'll wipe ourselves out with nuclear war or climate change. Apocalypticism has a two thousand year plus track record of being wrong, and I think as a concept it keeps appearing throughout history because people find it difficult to accept the fact that the world will continue to exist long after they themselves have gone, and in that sense it's quite a childish worldview.



I mean, even better, just take a look at the 2020's prediction threads from 2019 and how wrong most of these calls were. 

From where we were in December 2019 and even as late as early February 2020, it looked like Trump would win against Biden while COVID-19 would probably blow over and the Woke Left would die out since a Trump win would've caused the corporations to drop the Woke Left like they did with the Religious Right in the 2000's.

Then the virus went full pandemic and the neverending lockdowns set in, tanking the economy and sparking the George Floyd riots in the summer and eventually Biden being elected under dubious circumstances and the Woke Left along with their corporate masters stronger than ever.

2020 proved a lot can change in the course of a single year and black swan events are a thing.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Look politicians are doing that to escape blame and deep state is organising it this way so they can more easily control international affairs independant of current government. It's a way that politicians can get re-elected more easily.
> 
> Yes the centralizing is eroding all our freedoms and the semblance of democracy.
> 
> I guess what I'm surprised by is that you somehow think it is blundering or mistakes


I think our disagreement is that you believe there is just a single malicious layer to this sociopolitical mess.

My interpretation that it is a hierarchy of 

Malice at the top in very small numbers who all know each other
Followed by yes-men who follow the models and counting rather than the human element in abject stupidity
Career-men who clock in-and-out not caring if their work is anything other than paid for 
I am describing the second layer of sincere idiots, not the first layer which I agree exist.  I think they party on Little Saint James Island and believe they are gods among men, not subject to common morality.  They also know how to blend into the second layer and so the second layer must be refuted as well.  So long as the deep state is fought back, I don't care what attack or weapon is used.



Lemmingwise said:


> Why the fuck do you think your long list are mistakes?


I think they are a pattern of behavior which is sometimes subject to blowback, I only wish more often.


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## Lemmingwise (Feb 18, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> I think our disagreement is that you believe there is just a single malicious layer to this sociopolitical mess


I just think it's not worth the effort to look at the myrmidons with their varied motivations compared to the puppetmasters and leaders.

A good 85% of people will obey whomever is in charge, so they are shock troops for the sitting power, but if deposed, become shock troops for the next one.

I don't see the value in focusing on those you define as the second layer. There is no way to tell whether they truly are idiots or knowing obedient meatpuppets.

The first layer doesn't need to blend in with the second. The second layer learns to blend in with the first, and the better they do, the better they rise.

I am frustrated and don't see the point of taking them at face value. Yes they must be fought, but developing an understanding of the first layer creates a clear picture of how irrelevant the second layer is.




Haim Arlosoroff said:


> I think they are a pattern of behavior which is sometimes subject to blowback, I only wish more often


Anything worth doing receives blowback. Going to the moon received blowback too.

Yes there should be more blowback. I just still fail to see how these are mistakes, because they have a goal, then they reach their goal. Mission accomplished. Yes they may be evil goals, but if that is their goal anyways, it is not a failure.


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## Screamer (Feb 18, 2021)

Adam Curtis has a new documentary which came out a few days ago. It is depressing as being held down and having shit smeared on your face. Everything that is happening now, is a cycle repeating, yet the counter to that is now aligned. Instead of stupid woke rebellion vs managing dumb masses. Now they want to manage the stupid woke rebellion in transforming society. While keeping themselves on top as the elite.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

ScreamFace said:


> Adam Curtis has a new documentary which came out a few days ago. It is depressing as being held down and having shit smeared on your face. Everything that is happening now, is a cycle repeating, yet the counter to that is now aligned. Instead of stupid woke rebellion vs managing dumb masses. Now they want to manage the stupid woke rebellion in transforming society. While keeping themselves on top as the elite.


'HyperNormalisation' or 'Can't Get You Out of My Head'?

The ultimate failure of the west is that the power structures are allowed to take successful tactics against our current problems socially, economically, and geopolitically and shelve them if they hurt current wealthy and powerful people.  This means that only certain paths to supposed salvation are allowed, and if you, I, or Grandma die under those conditions then they are prepared to make that sacrifice.  The lie of democracy, when you have to search for the counter-argument to the widely promoted official narrative, is apparent.  It is mere window dressing, and I wish more people woke up to the fact that the professors, press, and politicians act like democracy is a lie and the people have to be managed.  They control the dialogue, they worry about us having the freedom to make up our mind, and they are funded to act like this by the very problems facing us.

Of course they are selling the ropes the communists will hang them with, the commodification of the rebellion makes them money in the short term and they think their system is invincible when they successfully captivate us with product.  They may even be right.


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## Drain Todger (Feb 18, 2021)

I know a few people who are deep state, or have law degrees and aspirations of becoming deep state. You know what I think? I think these people are in love with the smell of their own farts. I think, every now and then, they lift their leg and let a wet one rip, and then, they can’t help but bend over a bit and sample their own rich bouquet of odors. 

The ivory-tower assholes who sit around talking about Nash Equilibria and game theory are a bunch of brainwashed fart-sniffers. You tell them people live in extreme poverty and debt servitude. They don’t care. You tell them our democracies have morphed into oligarchies where the wealthy set policies according to their own whims. They don’t care. You tell them that war is racketeering writ large and the government and the perpetual Security State engage in acts that anyone would rightly call the work of a criminal cartel, that alphabet agencies torture suspected terrorists, violate our privacy, and smuggle drugs and other contraband. They don’t care.

Bureaucrats are literal non-player characters, OP. They don’t have a grip on the common man’s practical concerns. They all attend the same TED talks. They all watch the same PowerPoints. They are a homogenous pack of dullards. Most of them have never done an honest day’s work in their lives, having been raised from birth to believe in the prosperity gospel and neoliberal dogma, which is why they don’t think blue-collar people are even real or have any actual stake in the way we are ruled. They don’t think you deserve any transparency in the matter. In their own inflated heads, you are too simple, too stupid, to even understand what they do and why they do it. 

If people knew how we were actually governed, they would demand that all civil servants be placed in stocks so we could hurl cow pies at their faces.


----------



## Haim Arlosoroff (Feb 18, 2021)

Drain Todger said:


> I know a few people who are deep state, or have law degrees and aspirations of becoming deep state. You know what I think? I think these people are in love with the smell of their own farts. I think, every now and then, they lift their leg and let a wet one rip, and then, they can’t help but bend over a bit and sample their own rich bouquet of odors.
> 
> The ivory-tower assholes who sit around talking about Nash Equilibria and game theory are a bunch of brainwashed fart-sniffers. You tell them people live in extreme poverty and debt servitude. They don’t care. You tell them our democracies have morphed into oligarchies where the wealthy set policies according to their own whims. They don’t care. You tell them that war is racketeering writ large and the government and the perpetual Security State engage in acts that anyone would rightly call the work of a criminal cartel, that alphabet agencies torture suspected terrorists, violate our privacy, and smuggle drugs and other contraband. They don’t care.
> 
> ...


This is why I really enjoyed the documentary, it just lays that all out.  They believe this NAND corp nonsense that people are psychopaths who need incentives and anyone with any morality is just plain lying.  Its really eye opening to just see them say it on camera.

Its so obvious that they are the people who think like that, and anyone with a shred of decency should avoid these people entirely.  Their ideas by their government-paid theoretician-without-experience Nash spread by memorization without understanding and are regurgitated by their social-climbers.  Their plans will not be allowed to be altered by us, for we are thought too small to contribute and not strong enough to matter defying.  They have to be removed and, if necessary, democracy must be willingly sacrificed to do it.  They begin coups, assassinations, and wars without hesitation.  They are bringing their practices home, and normalizing them for domestic use.  They will end democracy anyway, by careful management and control, if we do nothing.

In Santa Monica, California, in 1954, while in his twenties, Nash's sexual issues got him arrested for indecent exposure in a sting operation targeting gay men. Although the charges were dropped, he was stripped of his top-secret security clearance and fired from RAND Corporation, where he had worked as a consultant. Nash's psychological issues crossed into his professional life when he gave an American Mathematical Society lecture at Columbia University in early 1959. Originally intended to present proof of the Riemann hypothesis, the lecture was incomprehensible. Colleagues in the audience immediately realized that something was wrong and he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.  Like with John Money and transgenderism, the inmates run the asylum. We are their captives and anything we do is said to be the aggression and never their mania.

They act like democracy is their permanent hostage, and threaten us with more surveillance and debanking if we don't give them their ease and excess. They who dream themselves our masters cannot be bargained with, we march over them or they over us.  They will never understand us, for they believe they know deeper truths and that we are their playthings. No quarter can be given against people like this, they are the definition of sociopaths and they currently have power over us.  There will be no society when they are finished playing.


----------



## Large (Feb 19, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> This is why I really enjoyed the documentary, it just lays that all out.  They believe this NAND corp nonsense that people are psychopaths who need incentives and anyone with any morality is just plain lying.  Its really eye opening to just see them say it on camera.
> 
> Its so obvious that they are the people who think like that, and anyone with a shred of decency should avoid these people entirely.  Their ideas by their government-paid theoretician-without-experience Nash spread by memorization without understanding and are regurgitated by their social-climbers.  Their plans will not be allowed to be altered by us, for we are thought too small to contribute and not strong enough to matter defying.  They have to be removed and, if necessary, democracy must be willingly sacrificed to do it.  They begin coups, assassinations, and wars without hesitation.  They are bringing their practices home, and normalizing them for domestic use.  They will end democracy anyway, by careful management and control, if we do nothing.
> 
> ...


carbon monoxide


----------



## dirtydeanna96 (Mar 16, 2021)

The fall of the west can be traced to copernicus. He took earth (and mankind) out of its rightful place. Everything has been downhill since 1543.


----------



## Lurk McDurk (Mar 16, 2021)

Americans are not “the west.”

Americans are being forced to accept the fact that their post ww2 boom was a very specific era with very specific circumstances that cannot be repeated, no matter how many war murals you paint or how many football game fighter jet flyovers you watch on tv.

Now what?


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## Never Scored (Mar 17, 2021)

Read 1984. It's explained perfectly. The upper class gets to comfortable and loses its will to lead. The middle class exploits the working class to overtake the upper class, promising the lower class a better life, then once they're in power they do not give the lower class a better life. Then the cycle resets. A university educated middle class, people like AOC, that have sprung up over the last 50 years is pushing to displace the previous upper class by promising the lower class, primarily African Americans and immigrants a better life. The current upper class is either ancient and about to die(Biden, Pelosi, Schumer) or they're the kids of those people who are so pampered they don't know how to wipe their own ass and are not mentally capable of leveraging their position for power. Once AOC & company have power they will forget all about giving the lower class a better life, some other change to the paradigm will lead to the creation of a new middle class, a new technology, a big war, a the economy tanking, whatever, and eventually in 50 years time they will oust AOCs generation.


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## Shovel Mech Pilot (Mar 17, 2021)

The USA is seeing the fate of all democracies. Eventually, politics in a democracy becomes nothing more than voters saying "which party will use their armed thugs to steal more money for me?" The design of the republic was supposed to avoid this but, of course, we threw all that out the window piecemeal until we are at where we are today.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> Really, most of the geopolitical situations of the last 100 years can be traced back to World War I.


So true. WW1 doesn't get talked about enough on Joe Rogan's experience.


Syaoran Li said:


> Woke Left would die out since a Trump win would've caused the corporations to drop the Woke Left like they did with the Religious Right in the 2000's.


lmao no. Democracy has been going in one direction ever since its foundation. It always move left. You talk about the pendulum when in reality there's a name for it: reaction. A swing in the pendulum doesn't matter (and doesn't exist) unless there's a large change in public opinion leading to politicians with the public's views getting elected. A reaction is when the establishment fights back against public opinion. rn there's no one in the establishment who opposes the radical left agenda and moreover the new generation is even more left wing than before. Well, they're not entirely left wing, there's a large amount of polarization. This was covered by Joe Rogan, but we know that people are becoming more radical


----------



## Syaoran Li (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> So true. WW1 doesn't get talked about enough on Joe Rogan's experience.
> 
> lmao no. Democracy has been going in one direction ever since its foundation. It always move left. You talk about the pendulum when in reality there's a name for it: reaction. A swing in the pendulum doesn't matter (and doesn't exist) unless there's a large change in public opinion leading to politicians with the public's views getting elected. A reaction is when the establishment fights back against public opinion. rn there's no one in the establishment who opposes the radical left agenda and moreover the new generation is even more left wing than before. Well, they're not entirely left wing, there's a large amount of polarization. This was covered by Joe Rogan, but we know that people are becoming more radical



Contrary to what traditionalist neo-reactionary retards think, the pendulum does in fact exist (or at least did) in the United States.

And unlike you, I don't watch Joe Rogan and don't care for him so I don't pay any attention to what his opinions are on WWI or the pendulum effect.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> Contrary to what traditionalist neo-reactionary retards think, the pendulum does in fact exist (or at least did) in the United States.
> 
> And unlike you, I don't watch Joe Rogan and don't care for him so I don't pay any attention to what his opinions are on WWI or the pendulum effect.


when's the last time there has been a major shift in public opinion to the right?


----------



## Syaoran Li (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> when's the last time there has been a major shift in public opinion to the right?



The 1980's and early 1990's with Reagan and the Religious Right, even if that ultimately boomeranged on the right in the long run and led to the neocons.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> The 1980's and early 1990's with Reagan and the Religious Right, even if that ultimately boomeranged on the right in the long run and led to the neocons.


Reagan was libertarian free market bullshit. not true conservative. and neocons are not conservative either, they're libertarian. 


And looking at this chart there was no religious resurgence in the 80s and 90s


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## RussianParasite (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> And looking at this chart there was no religious resurgence in the 80s and 90s


Hard to have a “resurgence” when you are 95% of the population or more, lol. For real, were you not around to see the sway the religious right had up through the mid 2000s?

Also, in what world are the hawkish, military -loving, drug-war making neocons libertarians?


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

RussianParasite said:


> Hard to have a “resurgence” when you are 95% of the population or more, lol. For real, were you not around to see the sway the religious right had up through the mid 2000s?


and maybe they did have power. that doesn't factor into whether there was a swing in pendulum. If mao zedong had ultimate power over the US that wouldn't mean popular opinion changes


RussianParasite said:


> Also, in what world are the hawkish, military -loving


being pro or anti military has nothing to do with being right wing. was Joseph Stalin right wing because he spending lots of money on his military?


RussianParasite said:


> drug-war


the drug war was justified on morals but was done for profit. And everyone today knows that it's for profit not for "the good of society." I don't disagree


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> Reagan was libertarian free market bullshit. not true conservative. and neocons are not conservative either, they're libertarian.
> View attachment 2005074
> And looking at this chart there was no religious resurgence in the 80s and 90s



So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?

Also, the neocons like Reagan were only able to get as far as they did by riding the coattails of the Religious Right, which got its start as the pendulum swinging back against the New Left of the 1960's and 1970's.

Ironically, the neocons couldn't have gained power without the backing of the fundies in the early 80's but by the 90's and 2000's, the Religious Right couldn't have any actual influence without the neocons propping them up.


----------



## RussianParasite (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?


Get out of here with the Feudalism shit, libtard. Everyone knows small tribal and nomadic societies are the real conservatives.

Farming and animal husbandry will lead to the moral decay of mankind.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?
> 
> Also, the neocons like Reagan were only able to get as far as they did by riding the coattails of the Religious Right, which got its start as the pendulum swinging back against the New Left of the 1960's and 1970's.
> 
> Ironically, the neocons couldn't have gained power without the backing of the fundies in the early 80's but by the 90's and 2000's, the Religious Right couldn't have any actual influence without the neocons propping them up.


If the people who were elected make no attempt to conserve anything are they conservative? conservatives believe in security, the free market is the most unstable and liberal force to exist. if you believe in free trade or the free market you have to be really far right on other issues to make up for it
edit:

 Here are the stats for Reagan's 1980 victory. I don't know why Reagan won in a landslide, but even if religious fundamentalists did make a plurality of the country (~30%)and they all supported him it wouldn't explain Reagan's landslide. Also, young people supported Reagan in what looks like record numbers. Does that mean young people came out as religious zealots in the 80s?


----------



## Syaoran Li (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> If the people who were elected make no attempt to conserve anything are they conservative? conservatives believe in security, the free market is the most unstable and liberal force to exist. if you believe in free trade or the free market you have to be really far right on other issues to make up for it
> edit:
> View attachment 2005427 Here are the stats for Reagan's 1980 victory. I don't know why Reagan won in a landslide, but even if religious fundamentalists did make a plurality of the country (~30%)and they all supported him it wouldn't explain Reagan's landslide. Also, young people supported Reagan in what looks like record numbers. Does that mean young people came out as religious zealots in the 80s?



And here comes the "hurr durr what r we conserving?" mantra. That is like the traditionalist equivalent of "That wasn't real socialism!" cope from the Antifa crowd.

Some things are not worth conserving and even then, a lot of these leaders tried to conserve but failed miserably.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> And here comes the "hurr durr what r we conserving?" mantra. That is like the traditionalist equivalent of "That wasn't real socialism!" cope from the Antifa crowd.
> 
> Some things are not worth conserving and even then, a lot of these leaders tried to conserve but failed miserably.


people are not ants. tradition exists to increase happiness. libertarians get rid of traditions because it messes with their bottom line. Explain why so many people 18-21 voted for Reagan. Joe Rogan has a nice work life balance


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> people are not ants. tradition exists to increase happiness. libertarians get rid of traditions because it messes with their bottom line. Explain why so many people 18-21 voted for Reagan. Joe Rogan has a nice work life balance



"Tradition" does not increase happiness, that is a traditionalist cope

Contrary to what The Distributist or Nick Fuentes will tell you, the vast majority of people were extremely miserable in the heyday of your traditionalism and were often poor, but the misery manifested differently and was far less well-documented due to technological differences.

I guarantee you the majority of people were probably miserable in medieval Europe and Puritan New England and they were definitely miserable in Appalachia during the 1980's and 1990's. And yet all of these are morally conservative traditionalist societies.

Also, another reason for Reagan's landslide victories in addition to the Religious Right were the fact Carter and Mondale were seen as weak candidates and Carter presided over both a massive recession and the Iranian Revolution.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 17, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> "Tradition" does not increase happiness, that is a traditionalist cope
> 
> Contrary to what The Distributist or Nick Fuentes will tell you, the vast majority of people were extremely miserable in the heyday of your traditionalism and were often poor, but the misery manifested differently and was far less well-documented due to technological differences.
> 
> ...


ok, you're pretty entrenched in your position. I can't convince, take a look at this video and maybe it will give you a little perspective: 



I don't agree with Joe Rogan on this particular issue anyways


----------



## Syaoran Li (Mar 17, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> ok, you're pretty entrenched in your position. I can't convince, take a look at this video and maybe it will give you a little perspective:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Joe Rogan on this particular issue anyways



What is it with you and Joe Rogan? I honestly don't get it.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Mar 17, 2021)

The typical modern American city really is like a machine. From the air, it looks like a circuit board. The cheap corporate-built buildings look like electronic components, and the roads look like circuit pathways. Down on the ground, there's no real society. Everyone is isolated in their homes, mechanized transport, or at places of business (remember that SpongeBob clip?).

Only technology and mechanistic routine - with an over-reliance on the vendor system - keeps things going. Even food is distributed by vendors in bullshit portions at bullshit prices from industrial processing. And to keep things running, the modern world has to have excessive rules. Many live the same.

All most people can do is work and consume, or go to school to work and consume. Modern work itself is often enough driven by "scientific management", which often enough takes place in ugly and depressing fluorescent-lit factory-like environments - or actual factories. Gone are the days where one could more or less easily make a living on their own.

What little culture is left seems to be eroding away - especially with this "New Normal". Consumerism and politics - especially now - seem to be replacing it.

Socialization normally only happens in cliques. Technology is increasingly eroding that away, with "real life" increasingly being replaced with tech.

Not everything modern is bad of course, and the past wasn't exactly pleasant. But the combination that is the modern world is a miserable hell - although media and a social life can help one cope.

And power-hungry elite who run the show want it this way. A cybernetic hive of consumer serfs. A cyberpunk dystopia.


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## Captain Syrup (Mar 18, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?


That's the long and short of it, yeah.

After all, paleocons started the country, and Cotton Mather is more central to their beliefs than anybody on Mount Rushmore.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Mar 18, 2021)

jennifermist said:


> That's the long and short of it, yeah.
> 
> After all, paleocons started the country, and Cotton Mather is more central to their beliefs than anybody on Mount Rushmore.



It's eerie and rather ironic that the modern Northern blue states were founded by Calvinist zealots while the Southern red states were founded by well-educated classically liberal rum-swilling libertines. 

Prior to 1865, the Northeast was socially conservative and Bible-thumping while the South was socially liberal. Slavery was seen as more of an economic issue than a civil rights issue until 1863 with the Emancipation Proclamation, 

Really, it wasn't until the destruction of the Civil War and the mess that was Reconstruction that the script was flipped. In the old days, Boston was seen as a hive of traditionalists and stuffy church ladies who were fun-hating prudes even by Puritan standards.

Hell, up until the early 20th Century, Boston was seen as a very right wing city thanks to both the old guard Anglo Puritans and the waves of hardliner trad Catholics from Ireland and Italy.

Even M*A*S*H was cracking jokes about how even Disney movies could wind up "Banned in Boston" as late as the 1970's (granted, the show was a period piece set in the early 1950's but still)


----------



## DeadFish (Mar 18, 2021)

RussianParasite said:


> Get out of here with the Feudalism shit, libtard. Everyone knows small tribal and nomadic societies are the real conservatives.
> 
> Farming and animal husbandry will lead to the moral decay of mankind.


I un ironically believe in this. Small societies have less systemic flaws then large ones.

Take crime for example. In current day america there is a very expensive justice system. Which barely functions or is abused.

In a tribe? Exile them. They fuck up? Show them the door.

Telling people to leave and don't come back is cheaper, more morally sound and isn't going to get gamed.


----------



## RussianParasite (Mar 18, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> I un ironically believe in this. Small societies have less systemic flaws then large ones.
> 
> Take crime for example. In current day america there is a very expensive justice system. Which barely functions or is abused.
> 
> ...


Literally all modern things that people take for granted require a large amount of people/ complex supply chains to get done. People in small tribal societies would not, and do not, have access to running water, reliable food supplies, weather forecasts, automobiles, guns, phones, electricity (imagine not posting on Kiwi Farms!), medical supplies, etc. 

Even the simple solution of exiling someone if they fuck up is more complicated as who gets to determine who did something wrong? You’d hope you, but maybe your tribal leader just doesn’t like you all that much and thinks you’re worthless or simply wants to fuck your spouse and get rid of you. 

Life isn’t fair in any society. 

If you truly believe it is then go join an existing nomadic/tribal culture (they absolutely exist) or make one of your own. No one is stopping you from dropping out of our oh-so-terrible society.


----------



## DeadFish (Mar 18, 2021)

RussianParasite said:


> Literally all modern things that people take for granted require a large amount of people/ complex supply chains to get done. People in small tribal societies would not, and do not, have access to running water, reliable food supplies, weather forecasts, automobiles, guns, phones, electricity (imagine not posting on Kiwi Farms!), medical supplies, etc.
> 
> Even the simple solution of exiling someone if they fuck up is more complicated as who gets to determine who did something wrong? You’d hope you, but maybe your tribal leader just doesn’t like you all that much and thinks you’re worthless or simply wants to fuck your spouse and get rid of you.
> 
> ...


A "tribe" is any small group where everyone knows each other via a personal basis (and not via an abstract system). The scientific limit of individuals for this is 150.

So 150 billionaires who grew up with each other counts as a tribe. 

Jews count as a tribe and they live in modern society.

Five people living as roomates could count as a tribe. 

It's easier to create a small group within a large society for a specific purpose vs trying change a large one such as ours.

Yes getting exiled can happen because of a bullshit reason the leader doesn't like me. Yes the tribal justice might be flawed. So what? The costs to the evicted individual and tribe of a mistrial are minimal compared to the american justice system. Got snagged due to being framed? That time isn't time you're getting back and it will change you. For the worse.

Also the snark about running water? Got news for you. We're not going to mars. The fully gay space communism isn't going to happen. We're stuck here, america is in decline and resources to sustain technology is running out. We will eventually return to smaler societies.. don't ya worrry.


----------



## RussianParasite (Mar 18, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> It's easier to create a small group within a large society for a specific purpose vs trying change a large one such as ours.


So you mean we could be together with a circle of friends and family to interact with within the a larger society? That’s literally how things are right now. However, those 150 people on their own are incapable of building things like a computer. Current life requires the existence of a larger society.



DeadFish said:


> The costs to the evicted individual and tribe of a mistrial are minimal compared to the american justice system.



Lol, yes being sent away forever from all of your friends and loved ones, never to see or speak to them again, is better than some jail time. 



DeadFish said:


> Also the snark about running water? Got news for you. We're not going to mars. The fully gay space communism isn't going to happen. We're stuck here, america is in decline and resources to sustain technology is running out. We will eventually return to smaler societies.. don't ya worrry.


I’m sorry my facts made you mad at the internet. I’d also like to inform you that gas doesn’t come from the gas pump and food doesn’t come from the grocery store. 

America isn’t perfect but it isn’t bad either— go to a none western country and tell me it’s better. I don’t think we are going to Mars and I do think that Communism is awful. People have been raving about resources running out for centuries. Tell me, exactly which of these resources are we running low on? Your insight on a potential shortage could land me a fuck ton of money (no joke). 

It is always the end of the world for doomposters.


----------



## Carlos Weston Chantor (Mar 18, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> TL;DR: Once you are in power; do you correct your policies according to the rioters, the mathematical measured outcomes, or your ideology? Or do you commit to not doing a thing, no matter how bad things get? Our politicians are using abstractions and models to decide what becomes horrible messes time and again. They will keep doing this.



The Law of God as expressed in Deuteronomy should be the only foundation of the legal system (non-Abrahamic traditional societies had very similar systems because it's all just Natural Law, but the Bible does a good job at codifying it nicely)

Removing godless laws and introducing the Law of God would introduce some immediate chaos because of how extremely "libertarian" the Law of God is compared to the slave-owning society we live in now (God allows Free Men to do anything they want, Man is like a God in his own family, free Men can travel the world as they want, buy and sell anything they want while paying in gold and silver, own any weapons they want, grow any plants they want on their land and so on. They are also free to put down any godless nerd who thinks he could come up with a better way to rule the society)

Every society ruled by godless nerds is doomed to failure because the only way to prosperity is the organic growth of mankind in accordance to the natural law. Pol Pot had a good idea when he wanted to kill all the nerds to be honest


----------



## DeadFish (Mar 18, 2021)

RussianParasite said:


> S).
> 
> It is always the end of the world for doomposters.


See this is why everything is so fucked up in america. When someone says things may not turn out rosy (or by design) then they're being "negative".

The unwillingness to embrace unpleasantness is why people are going cray cray.

I didn't pick my ideas cause they'll lead to utopia or are perfect 
I choose them because they are the least imperfect, most likely to arise of own accord, easy to implement and as a counter to prog ideas. As you said life isn't fair. My ideas are the best the world will allow

It's easier for me to create a gang of 150 and try to drop out of society then try to force a nation of 300 million to bend to my will.

 If all the regular posters here got 150 to 300 people for a micro society and managed to break away that would affect the cathedral in no small way. it's low risk too.


----------



## Haim Arlosoroff (Mar 18, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> Also the snark about running water? Got news for you. We're not going to mars. The fully gay space communism isn't going to happen. We're stuck here, america is in decline and resources to sustain technology is running out. We will eventually return to smaler societies.. don't ya worrry.









Carlos Weston Chantor said:


> The Law of God as expressed in Deuteronomy should be the only foundation of the legal system (non-Abrahamic traditional societies had very similar systems because it's all just Natural Law, but the Bible does a good job at codifying it nicely)
> 
> Removing godless laws and introducing the Law of God would introduce some immediate chaos because of how extremely "libertarian" the Law of God is compared to the slave-owning society we live in now (God allows Free Men to do anything they want, Man is like a God in his own family, free Men can travel the world as they want, buy and sell anything they want while paying in gold and silver, own any weapons they want, grow any plants they want on their land and so on. They are also free to put down any godless nerd who thinks he could come up with a better way to rule the society)
> 
> Every society ruled by godless nerds is doomed to failure because the only way to prosperity is the organic growth of mankind in accordance to the natural law. Pol Pot had a good idea when he wanted to kill all the nerds to be honest


Is the Codex Justinianus good enough, or are we allowing debt-slavery by default of not banning it?  If there is one freak per hundred miles, the laws can just rely on legal gun ownership and let the honest man live his life.  If there are one hundred freaks per one mile, the laws can never hope to regulate us all to the same page yet bureaucrats (and their utopian thinking) will try and fail a thousand times.  The real problem is the population density, there are just too many people and no one in government will even admit to understanding the problem of raising GDP at the cost of GDP per capita.  If there were 100 million people (randomly, not by some elite's picking) the world would be far more sustainable.  The number of wind farms and level of automation just become so much easier to manage.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Mar 18, 2021)

Carlos Weston Chantor said:


> The Law of God as expressed in Deuteronomy should be the only foundation of the legal system (non-Abrahamic traditional societies had very similar systems because it's all just Natural Law, but the Bible does a good job at codifying it nicely)
> 
> Removing godless laws and introducing the Law of God would introduce some immediate chaos because of how extremely "libertarian" the Law of God is compared to the slave-owning society we live in now (God allows Free Men to do anything they want, Man is like a God in his own family, free Men can travel the world as they want, buy and sell anything they want while paying in gold and silver, own any weapons they want, grow any plants they want on their land and so on. They are also free to put down any godless nerd who thinks he could come up with a better way to rule the society)
> 
> Every society ruled by godless nerds is doomed to failure because the only way to prosperity is the organic growth of mankind in accordance to the natural law. Pol Pot had a good idea when he wanted to kill all the nerds to be honest



There are only two kinds people who want America to become a theocracy founded on the Law of God: Hillbillies and edgy LARP'er nerds. 

Something tells me you're not a hillbilly and are probably just a self-hating nerd who's trying to A-Log his fellow geeks and probably has played way too much Crusader Kings II for his own good.

I'd be willing to bet ten dollars and some beers that you're probably a burned out ex-euphoric atheist who traded his fedora and trench coat for a capotain and a cassock.

Non-Abrahamic "traditional" societies did NOT have the same laws as the hook-nosed Abrahamic societies.

"Natural Law" is a crock of hook-nosed bullshit and trust me, people were actually more miserable under traditional morality, but their misery manifested differently. 

And before you try, I'm not an atheist and I hate atheists even more than I hate trads.


----------



## Un Platano (Mar 18, 2021)

You can thank this generation for ruining everything: 


As soon as hominids developed an upright posture it's all been downhill from there. The average chimp eats more termites and rapes more macaques than the average man in modern western society, and is far happier because of it. Meanwhile mankind has made worthless stone tools and fire under the guise of "progress," that only serve to distract him from the downfall from the glories of the society of monkey. Every time you start a fire, le happy proboscis monkey cackles and rubs his hands knowing that the _Homo_ are doing exactly what he wants.


----------



## Cool Dog (Mar 21, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Everything is building up to The Last War, the biggest war in human history that will dwarf the World Wars and will either render the human race extinct or usher in a utopia where there's never another war.


There wont be any big wars, the reason the cold war never went hot is because neither side's elite wanted to die, specially the soviets: they couldnt give less of a fuck about the people who they constantly killed with famines and gulags, and when not doing that they worked them to death. The problem is that they knew the majority of the nukes were pointed at moscow and the ussr was ridiculously centralized because every party apparatchik wanted to be in moscow and not some backwater town like norilsk. Thats also the reason why moscow was the only city with proper SAM defenses and huge-ass spherical bunkers that could take a direct hit, and on top of that a huge subway network that doubles as fallout shelter. Still they knew they were fucked, that most of ussr would survive WWIII but moscow would become the world's biggest crater

You got an even more ridiculous situation with china: their armed forces are literally owned by the party, their objective is not to protect the nation but the party. Needless to say when SHTF many chinese are not gonna die for some ccp fuckhead, and the party knows this which is why they will limit themselves to another cold war and let the average chinese get fucked by global warming and other shit, after all they already killed nearly 100 million of them during the 20th century so whats 100 million more?


----------



## Dom Cruise (Mar 21, 2021)

Cool Dog said:


> There wont be any big wars, the reason the cold war never went hot is because neither side's elite wanted to die, specially the soviets: they couldnt give less of a fuck about the people who they constantly killed with famines and gulags, and when not doing that they worked them to death. The problem is that they knew the majority of the nukes were pointed at moscow and the ussr was ridiculously centralized because every party apparatchik wanted to be in moscow and not some backwater town like norilsk. Thats also the reason why moscow was the only city with proper SAM defenses and huge-ass spherical bunkers that could take a direct hit, and on top of that a huge subway network that doubles as fallout shelter. Still they knew they were fucked, that most of ussr would survive WWIII but moscow would become the world's biggest crater
> 
> You got an even more ridiculous situation with china: their armed forces are literally owned by the party, their objective is not to protect the nation but the party. Needless to say when SHTF many chinese are not gonna die for some ccp fuckhead, and the party knows this which is why they will limit themselves to another cold war and let the average chinese get fucked by global warming and other shit, after all they already killed nearly 100 million of them during the 20th century so whats 100 million more?


The last war doesn't necessarily have to be some great, grand nuclear conflict or massive conflict between superpower nations, it could be something a lot more intimate, what's that poem quote, "this is the way world ends, not with a bang, but with a whimper"

As a matter of fact what I picture is what happened in the "Arab spring" ten years ago happening everywhere in the world, every society splintering into factions fighting it our for whatever ideology they want to fight for, something akin to the short story "All the Last Wars at Once"

You're right that government bureaucrats only care about saving their own skin at the end of the day, but average people can be gripped by passions that can explode into shocking acts of violence.

It all depends on whether more people turn away from anger and hate and turns towards love and empathy than those that don't if we're going to avoid some large scale outbreak of violence, I don't know about you though but it seems like the world really lacking in empathy when so many people grab a gun and kill strangers so often.

But I really do hope that cooler heads will prevail and in the long run we'll be ok and I really do think that can happen.


----------



## Malagor the dank omen (Mar 21, 2021)

Cool Dog said:


> You got an even more ridiculous situation with china: their armed forces are literally owned by the party, their objective is not to protect the nation but the party. Needless to say when SHTF many chinese are not gonna die for some ccp fuckhead, and the party knows this which is why they will limit themselves to another cold war and let the average chinese get fucked by global warming and other shit, after all they already killed nearly 100 million of them during the 20th century so whats 100 million more?


Plus, China in all its wisdom and history has a story of "winning without fighting". If a conflict arises in the horizon, the chinks will rather bribe, hookwind or fool anyone they can before there is no other option. In all their history, it has followed that formula of avoiding conflict until you can't run away from it anymore. Because in the modern sense, war is an enormous waste of resources and manpower and if we all know one thing, is that China doesn't like to waste things that can be in the pocket of the CCP.


Dom Cruise said:


> But I really do hope that cooler heads will prevail and in the long run we'll be ok and I really do think that can happen.


On this matter i'm really jaded after so many years of political dissapointment and seeing how things go.

Things stand oddly like the years before the Spanish civil war: Everyone hates each other's guts and they want to kill each other, but they are waiting for anyone else to throw the first stone so they have a justification for their atrocities. God knows where the boiling point is, but it's there and some idiot sperg will be stupid enough to reach it at this rate.

Right now, we can only hope that reason prevails over idiots thinking that their ideology or way of living is the only right one, because i honestly think we might as well ditch society while we can and do our best to not become bugmen.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Mar 21, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> As a matter of fact what I picture is what happened in the "Arab spring" ten years ago happening everywhere in the world, every society splintering into factions fighting it our for whatever ideology they want to fight for, something akin to the short story "All the Last Wars at Once"


I used to think along the terms that like the West and East Roman Empire, either America or Europe's Republicanism would end and then the other would correct the issue as they couldn't pretend that the issues of our time were non-issues any longer.  Then I thought the model was the Spanish Civil War of 1936, electoral fraud led to minority governments forcing grand schemes onto a divided nation in an effort of securing their positions on things.  All the while in the background I thought from time to time about the Weimar Republic and Brazil's death of social mobility and societal jungle, although those while possible directions America could go down do not seem the likeliest.

Now, I think the one thing Trump taught America unequivocally is the power of a leader to act as a rallying point for dissatisfied peoples.  I think the factions will be hugely limited more than you do, because they will lack the organization of leadership to at least give a feeling of in-group/out-group.  Leftists are going to infight themselves to death the moment things get truly bad, whenever that is.  The Washington Elite are too wrapped up in their statistical lies of misreporting and ambiguity-of-meaning, they would cause a Holodomor if they had but had the power swearing the truth to be just about anything but what it is.

The real leaders, the washington elite and rising populism, will determine the factions and the causes.  We may all be startled by the sides' combination of positions and resulting populations when it happens.  Economic populism or non-interventionism.  Racial segregation or integration.  Neoliberal avocation or Social Democrat condemnation of Israel.  Washington will be quite varied once the bad times bring seriousness too late, and leadership will shape the sides by permitting or denying power blocs within teams.  For power alone fights civil wars, leaderless groups are just declared to be banditry and destroyed when the fighting starts.

I think the sides will be at most three, and only if there is a withdrawal of states into neutral blocs once the other two sides start fighting.  I would read up on the sides of the Spanish Civil War if I were you, it began like you said, many factions.  Then they coalesced together on the Right, and failed to on the Left.  That fact alone determined the war.  Join up or die will be the motto of the American States for a second time.


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## Cool Dog (Mar 21, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> The last war doesn't necessarily have to be some great, grand nuclear conflict or massive conflict between superpower nations, it could be something a lot more intimate, what's that poem quote, "this is the way world ends, not with a bang, but with a whimper"
> 
> As a matter of fact what I picture is what happened in the "Arab spring" ten years ago happening everywhere in the world, every society splintering into factions fighting it our for whatever ideology they want to fight for, something akin to the short story "All the Last Wars at Once"
> 
> ...


The arab spring was 100% orchestrated by outside agents, anyone telling you the opposite is ignorant or a shill, or both. The factors that led to this situation made little difference, the situation in most of the countries involved was far worse in the 80s and 90s than in the 00s. For example iran had been devastated by the war in iraq, entire generations lost due to ass-retarded islamic preachers larping as strategists, yet there was no revolt. In egypt you had far more extremist activity in those years, back in the 81 president sadat got shot, the muslim brotherhood was much bigger back then but then it actually lost public support after a series of terrorist bombings in the 90s and 00s wrecked the country's tourism industry which fucked over the population which depends on that source of income. In syria things were not bad at all, the oil boom of the 00s was a boon to them, same with libya and iran. The economic hardships in these countries had been far worse in previous years, same with repression specially in syria and iran during the 80s. Point is there was no reasonable trigger for the arab spring, it was a concerted effort by spooks and big data to game the population into toppling those regimes. Sure there were other parties like expats who wanted democracy or revenge against those regimes, but without the support of those benefactors I mentioned they wouldnt been able to pull this off

If the arab spring shows anything is that letting other countries own the means of communication and by extension the data of your citizens its a massive risk since now they can game your population against not just your interests (that is, the regime's) but even again their own interests by manipulating them into supporting shit thats going to fuck them over in the end, but it will be a massive win for the foreign interests pushing for this

Like it or not trump was right about tiktok because for all the bitching libtards did about russiagate the fact is no yanks use VK, but millions use tiktok, so what trump saw was the potential for the chinese to pull an arab spring on his country, which after looking at the 2020 riots maybe they did


Malagor the dank omen said:


> Plus, China in all its wisdom and history has a story of "winning without fighting". If a conflict arises in the horizon, the chinks will rather bribe, hookwind or fool anyone they can before there is no other option. In all their history, it has followed that formula of avoiding conflict until you can't run away from it anymore. Because in the modern sense, war is an enormous waste of resources and manpower and if we all know one thing, is that China doesn't like to waste things that can be in the pocket of the CCP.


The objective of the party is to accumulate wealth and hold on to power, no more no less. It has no interest on the wellbeing or progress of the chinese population, in fact it actively curtails it to avoid insurrections from happening like in tiannamen. Economic expansionism plays into that strategy, but going into total war against a superpower does not. Democracies under total war tend to become stronger and more focused. Dictatorships become weak because the dear leader has to fight the total war outside and an internal war to keep the peasants from revolting and other apparatchiks from using the situation to topple his ass. Consider how many assassination attempts hitler had, how stalin killed a bunch of his generals (which fucked him at the end when the germans invaded) and feared even his own doctors

The last thing someone like xi wants is to deal with that, he knows that if he went to war with the yanks odds are his own party is going to stab him in the back just for all the money and profits a war would cost them. The only thing keeping the ccp together is a mixture of fear and bribes, but the bribes are a much bigger factor. Many ccp fuckheads feared xi's anti-corruption campaign but at the end it turned out to be a fiasco and many say china is now even more corrupt than before. Dictators are terrible at stamping out corruption because they depend on corruption and bribes to keep their underlings from toppling them. The moment a dictator goes clean the underlings who see their bribes evaporate will topple him and put a new dictator that keeps the money flowing into their offshore bank accounts.


----------



## KimCoppolaAficionado (Mar 22, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> What is it with you and Joe Rogan? I honestly don't get it.


He borders on the archetypal neotrad drone and thinks Joe Rogan is a 1000 IQ turbogenius instead of a man who publicly admits to being "kind of retarded" and "basically a caveman".


DeadFish said:


> *See this is why everything is so fucked up in america. When someone says things may not turn out rosy (or by design) then they're being "negative".*
> 
> The unwillingness to embrace unpleasantness is why people are going cray cray.
> 
> ...


You've literally advocated for trying to trigger a race war, nuclear first strikes on nuke-EQ powers to start WWIII, attacking power grids, and engaging in autistic attempts to Butterfly Effect total societal collapse.  Pretending like you're just some friendly hippy now doesn't work.  Also, follow through on your promise about Biden.


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 23, 2021)

KimCoppolaAficionado said:


> He borders on the archetypal neotrad drone and thinks Joe Rogan is a 1000 IQ turbogenius instead of a man who publicly admits to being "kind of retarded" and "basically a caveman".


I may not agree with Joe Rogan on everything, but this is just wrong. I've spent a lot of time thinking about what Joe Rogan actually believes and I may not agree with him on everything but you have to realize that he is pretty smart. I don't agree with his decision to vote for marijuana legalization but it happened anyways and I respect his decision. I have great respect for Joe Rogan because he is smart and has high IQ conversations with Jordan Peterson and Kevin Smith on how to best preserve western civilization. And if Joe Rogan is on my side who is against me?


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Mar 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> I may not agree with Joe Rogan on everything, but this is just wrong. I've spent a lot of time thinking about what Joe Rogan actually believes and I may not agree with him on everything but you have to realize that he is pretty smart. I don't agree with his decision to vote for marijuana legalization but it happened anyways and I respect his decision. I have great respect for Joe Rogan because he is smart and has high IQ conversations with Jordan Peterson and Kevin Smith on how to best preserve western civilization. And if Joe Rogan is on my side who is against me?


  
They can take away my ratings, but they can't take away your shame.


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 23, 2021)

KimCoppolaAficionado said:


> They can take away my ratings, but they can't take away your shame.


No shame in telling the truth


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> No shame in telling the truth



>telling the truth
>Joe Rogan is an intellectual trying to save the West

Pick one, (((traditionalist)))


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Mar 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> No shame in telling the truth


Facebook-tier post.


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## zyclonPD (Apr 17, 2021)

I believe the only looking at numbers idea is correct. The ultimate goal from my point of view is everything you see in the west is aimed towards decreasing wages. Western countries are the only ones where wages have increased to their current level. The entire corporate world is in a love affair with countries like China and India where wages are lower and health and safety standards are so low that it allows for almost daily industrial accidents. 

The elites want the american worker to get to the point that either they make 25 cents an hour or so much of their paycheck flows immediately out if their hands that they might as well not be making money at all. Every year a new subscription service is added in a bid to part you with more money. Xbox now has the ability to buy their newest console in a payment plan because why not buy a $500 console in installments over 24 months? 

Flooding the labour force with immigrants at an alarming rate only has one definite outcome which is wage stagnation and decreasing wages. The one thing Democrats refuse to give their constituents is an increased federal minimum wage even at threat of antifa riots but keep pacifying them with the bread and circuses of hand outs and moral justice crusading to find the infamous nazis everywhere. I sincerely doubt that anybody in politics is actually going to increase minimum wage and may actually roll back the current federal laws on employment citing how socially concious corporations have become as a reason to trust them to "do the right thing" and set wages at a fair rate on their own.


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## mr.moon1488 (Apr 17, 2021)

lol, people go through some comical mental gymnastics to avoid simply admitting that "representative" forms of government were a disaster for the west.


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## Dyn (Apr 17, 2021)

"The West" is doing perfectly fine people are just mad that women and brown people have the same rights as them.


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## biozeminadae1 (Apr 17, 2021)

Dyn said:


> "The West" is doing perfectly fine people are just mad that women and brown people have the same rights as them.


Then how's it doing fine? That's terrible.


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## mr.moon1488 (Apr 17, 2021)

Dyn said:


> "The West" is doing perfectly fine people are just mad that women and brown people have the same rights as them.


>t.emu


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## Dyn (Apr 17, 2021)

biozeminadae1 said:


> Then how's it doing fine? That's terrible.


No it's not, women and brown people are a lot of fun when you get to know them.


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## mr.moon1488 (Apr 17, 2021)

Dyn said:


> No it's not, women and brown people are a lot of fun when you get to know them.


Only an emu would say this.  Go sit on an egg fag8


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## Dyn (Apr 17, 2021)

mr.moon1488 said:


> Only an emu would say this.  Go sit on an egg fag8


I am not an emu and Australia is a democratic sovereign nation completely free of any subversion or occupation by me or my people.


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## mr.moon1488 (Apr 17, 2021)

Dyn said:


> I am not an emu and Australia is a democratic sovereign nation completely free of any subversion or occupation by me or my people.


Silence emu.  We know of your ways.


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## biozeminadae1 (Apr 17, 2021)

Dyn said:


> No it's not, women and brown people are a lot of fun when you get to know them.


Nope.


----------



## Spermatozoa (Apr 19, 2021)




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## Whatsup bud? (Apr 19, 2021)

After seeing the 10th "west is dying" thread on here I'm starting to think some of y'all are _hoping_ it happens. I mean, I get the appeal but let's all calm down.


----------



## Just Another Apocalypse (Apr 19, 2021)

OP thinks that the larger picture isn't being looked at.

Proceeds to focus on one country... Failing to look at the larger picture.


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## Cabelaz (Apr 19, 2021)

And I have a theory on why OP is still a virgin


----------



## Sweetpeaa (Apr 22, 2021)

The U.S declined the moment it began to lose its middle class in the the late 2000's after the recession.


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## jje100010001 (Apr 25, 2021)

Sweetpeaa said:


> The U.S declined the moment it began to lose its middle class in the the late 2000's after the recession.


Overfinancialization of society + the funneling of monetary policy into non-productive capital (bubbles) + the pursuit of the almighty GDP as a measure of political success?

I suppose if the average American is being exorbitantly overcharged on their rent/mortgage and doctor's fees while their factory is being outsourced (they can learn to code though!), that might help push the GDP up by a fraction of a percentage, though one's perceptions of quality of life might beg to differ.


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## DeadFish (Apr 28, 2021)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxl_JrJVVjU
		

Ill just post this


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## Cool Dog (May 5, 2021)

Dyn said:


> "The West" is doing perfectly fine people are just mad that women and brown people have the same rights as them.


They have had the same rights for decades now, it means fuck all what color your skin is anymore, what does matter is where you are born, namely nationality and class. If you're a rich third worlder you're still a third worlder even if you're blond and blue eyed, thats why E1 and E2 visas exists, and even thats not the same than the free citizenship every single one of these black faggots from blm are born with and bitch about

Fact is a black woman born in burgerland is a 100 times better off than a white latino born in a latino country by the mere fact that she was born on the other side of an "imaginary line" that changes everything. That same black woman would be fucked if she was born in africa, the land of black people where theres no whitey keeping her down but everybody is poor as fuck because black dictators have stolen trillions from their countries for the past 60 years. Also some other tribe might decide she's the devil and cut her arms and legs off then put a tire around her neck and set her on fire, but again its not racism because racism is power+prejudice, also black people cant be racist


Whatsup bud? said:


> After seeing the 10th "west is dying" thread on here I'm starting to think some of y'all are _hoping_ it happens. I mean, I get the appeal but let's all calm down.


Not really, not a fan of the west but the alternative is a chink-dominated world so I rather stick with the status quo


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## Dyn (May 5, 2021)

Cool Dog said:


> Fact is a black woman born in burgerland is a 100 times better off than a white latino born in a latino country by the mere fact that she was born on the other side of an "imaginary line" that changes everything.


America is a shithole county with no health care, she'd be 20% better off at best.


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## Cool Dog (May 5, 2021)

Dyn said:


> America is a shithole county with no health care, she'd be 20% better off at best.


I'll trade you my "free" healthcare for your citizenship any day, no returns BTW

Enjoy my taxes gringo


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## Dyn (May 5, 2021)

Cool Dog said:


> I'll trade you my "free" healthcare for your citizenship any day, no returns BTW
> 
> Enjoy my taxes gringo


I live in a civilised country and already enjoy the benefits of free healthcare, thank you.


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## Cool Dog (May 5, 2021)

Dyn said:


> I live in a civilised country and already enjoy the benefits of free healthcare, thank you.


The offer still stands, dont go shitting yourself at the prospect of living in a more diverse country, or are you racist?


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## Dyn (May 5, 2021)

Cool Dog said:


> The offer still stands, dont go shitting yourself at the prospect of living in a more diverse country, or are you racist?


What exactly are you offering?


----------



## Kornula (May 5, 2021)

Cabelaz said:


> And I have a theory on why OP is still a virgin


I don't think it is a theory at all.. .. if you know what I mean.


----------



## cornycat (Jul 21, 2021)

The west may be doomed, but I dont suppose the solution is to go back to "traditions". I would more so support that we all have manual labor, and more so support a system of those to work under specific classes. Maybe regulated capitalism? Unironically, I believe most of us indulge into ethical egoism.

I think the whole issue with trannies is that people don't realize we are perpetuating the whole "if someone acts as a stereotype for a man/woman, they are that gender." Which supports the idea that someone should transition if they merely act like a woman/man. This supports pharmacists and whatnot, as well as old scientists which made up the concept of malebrain and ladybrain. If we use an imaginary boogeyman and a scapegoat of "oh, it's women's and brownie's faults" instead of flat out admitting that it's ethical egoism and powerups using liberalism to cater to, while using it to pander to cover up their whole artificiality and their experiments on us, surely you must admit that they've done this back then as well?

We can play semantics and go on and on on how we shouldn't have given these people rights, however, that doesn't change the fact that even in male dominated countries, it's still a shithole, though you may use the excuse that it's because they're colored and are genetically wrong, shouldn't we admit that both genders are using each other that's causing the doom of this artificial society?

What solution do we have here? To continue using propaganda of "traditions must return!"? It seems like a cope. Most of the women who fall into that entrapment are just lazy women who dont wan't to work or have education, and don't even know how to have any life skills. The same men who believes this are either neets or men who work dead end jobs, and either coom themselves to death or use religion/etc as scapegoats for their morality. "Male brains" are the cause of sexual entitlement, degeneracy, and rape (If we continue using old biology). I think it has little to do with their dicks because these limp-cocked or inverted-cocked trannies are even more sex obsessed than your average male. Why do you think most men who are against porn are merely against it for the fact that it causes issues to their dick, instead of the fact that it exploits women?

Meanwhile, women fall for the entrapment of sexualization and pander to political agenda and are guilty of being enablers. They're coddled and use their vaginas as an excuse to use victim complexes. They are looked at as more emotional, so they use that for their own advantage. They compete with other women and constantly strive to be #1 female. They either become tradwomen who are just fucking lazy, or liberal feminists who perpetuate materialistic systems, such as makeup and whatnot.

I don't believe in using groups as imaginary boogeymans, though, surely, you have to realize a lot of the so proclaimed 
"trad cath" males on these sites of media (be it twitter, insta, etc) also tell women who are working that they're useless as well. I think we all should work under specific classes. Classes that are aligned to our ability.  I think we all should learn the same life skills.  I think we should stop coddling women, or more so, stop using them for beauty and whatnot, while they should stop using men for status and finances.

Tl;dr: The west is doomed by everyone. Even back in traditions; we believed the government and allowed them to treat us in any way. I don't think that's a solution either. I believe it's also superficiality of both genders. We have gone to needing to be relished by self gratifications, that we all became desenitized and just don't know how to appreciate things anymore. Maybe go back to spartan days, to where we all worked in labor? Soz for the schizo tangent.


----------



## The Rabbit Holes (Jul 25, 2021)

nekomadi said:


> The west may be doomed, but I dont suppose the solution is to go back to "traditions". I would more so support that we all have manual labor, and more so support a system of those to work under specific classes. Maybe regulated capitalism? Unironically, I believe most of us indulge into ethical egoism.
> 
> I think the whole issue with trannies is that people don't realize we are perpetuating the whole "if someone acts as a stereotype for a man/woman, they are that gender." Which supports the idea that someone should transition if they merely act like a woman/man. This supports pharmacists and whatnot, as well as old scientists which made up the concept of malebrain and ladybrain. If we use an imaginary boogeyman and a scapegoat of "oh, it's women's and brownie's faults" instead of flat out admitting that it's ethical egoism and powerups using liberalism to cater to, while using it to pander to cover up their whole artificiality and their experiments on us, surely you must admit that they've done this back then as well?
> 
> ...


nod nod nod nod

the solution is to stop trying to push transhumanism and ais/automation as humanitys "hope".  stop using numbers, metrics, and algorithms for everything.
stop trying to "increase productivity" which just leads to everyone burning out.

 you dont need 3 people to shit out rapidly the exact same carbon copies according to a policy and make hand over fist cash which ends up hoarded. you need 9 people doing equal work and bringing different skills and ideas for living wages and working at a healthy pace for body, mind, and soul.

i wish we could return as close as we can to a barter system with apprenticeships and trades. 
focus on the present and resource creation in small chunks (think tribes, small town style), and away from single-fulfillment centers/factories like beezo's wagie camps.

of course, its a pipe dream, so i just cope by going to renaissance larps on the weekends and refusing to install anything work related on my personal phone.


----------



## Large (Jul 25, 2021)

The Rabbit Holes said:


> the solution is to stop trying to push transhumanism and ais/automation as humanitys "hope". stop using numbers, metrics, and algorithms for everything.


STOP DOING MATH
NUMBERS WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN NAMES


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## biozeminadae1 (Jul 25, 2021)

Dyn said:


> I live in a civilised country and already enjoy the benefits of free healthcare, thank you.


Is it a country defended by the USA, by any chance?


----------



## The Rabbit Holes (Jul 25, 2021)

Large said:


> STOP DOING MATH
> NUMBERS WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN NAMES


lol

math is cool. metrics are a neat way to identify things like disease vectors, poverty rates, or just how many patrons a library gets, or what type of bagels sell best on what days of the week.

but when smucks with a startups and those holding the reigns of the mega-american-corperations start using it....
they think just plugging numbers in and dumping funds into "analyzing" their low-level workers will magically produce the perfect answer to get more profit for less and fix all their issues that stem from undervaluing labor. it's a spiral of delusion and blame shifting.

recently had a CEO tell me their company struggles with communication, turnover, and maximizing efficiency and is paying out the ass to an analytics firm over it.



Spoiler: powerleveling, who let these idiots have capital



i do pretty mundane but numbers heavy work (inventory control/management with a focus on perishable goods)

the issue that thebworkers voice is that they are expected to use 3-4 different apps/platforms to log every. single. action they take/report each other for fuckups on, and in exchange, the bosses are supposed to use these apps to message/send out instructions and updates.

the reasons are to "track productivity" and "cut back on time wasted talking verbally".

but the bosses flat out don't bother to use it for communication (they all traditionally email each other/text) and dont view or engage with their direct reports at ALL on it, and then on top of it all, consistently blame those direct reports for not knowing exactly what was expected and put them on "performance improvement plans" (PIPS).

things could have been a 30 second exchange for a low-rung employee like taking out the trash is now:

>still have to ask verbally to do thing 
>now have to wait for boss to make task in app
>actually do it
>now complete it in app
>if not logged, get written up for insubordination

 instead of being present and engaged with their employees and the physical work/world these retards want to isolate themselves on their laptops in a conference room and waste money trying to figure out why nothing gets done and why people keep quitting.

of course, when i said this in a professional way, i got "oh ive been starting companies for x and y years, if you really had a solution, youd be somewhere else making more money"...

then why the fuck am i here in a meeting with you?



anyways i think math is neat and useful  but also maybe we should give numbers new names just for fun. i propose that three, four, and five should be relabeled one number called "a few". y'know, for productivity!


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## Cuck Shack (Jul 25, 2021)

biozeminadae1 said:


> Is it a country defended by the USA, by any chance?


He's an Aussie. Most people think they're chill Chads who drink Foster's, wrestle crocs, and shoot at giant spiders for target practice, but most are libtard cucks. He's a nigger though, so he's in it for the gibs and not the white guilt. Blacks are based by default.


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## Red Mask (Jul 25, 2021)

I don’t think the west is necessarily doomed at all. People who say that are usually angry that they no longer have all the power/privlage to themselves and can no longer get away with say, ruining a gay person’s life or forcing  black people to remain “the help.”  However, if it is doomed, it will be because of income inequality and too much bootlicking of “betters” more than anything. 

As for solutions, I think it’s a mix of everything. Numbers, humanity, all of it as many problems are complex ad will require complex solutions to fix the,.


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## Large (Jul 25, 2021)

Red Mask said:


> ad will require complex solutions to fix the,.


se nuts in your mouth


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