# Social Alienation



## Classist. (Jun 12, 2019)

So I was thinking that with the proliferation of technology and social media in recent years, combined with an increasingly factionalized and cliquish mentality in society at large, there has been an unprecedented surge in the atomitization and alienation of an increasingly large swath of people. I think that (largely) because of the internet an increasingly high number of people have become socially underdeveloped or poorly adjusted; and that we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how lonely, bitter, and spergy people will get when deprived of face to face interactions and a real life community. I mean you have kids these days being raised on their parents ipads and cell phone, and I really worry about what kind of social skills and attitudes kids in the next 10-20 years will have. I think that there might even be a bit of a Luddite backlash against this stuff when they grow up but maybe that's optimistic.

I know that societies have gone through far worse trauma in the past (like Weimar Germany for example), but I'm legitimately worried about the direction things seem to be going in right now. I'm not sure to what extent my worries are valid, but anecdotally it seems like things aren't getting better.


----------



## Rumpled Foreskin (Jun 12, 2019)

The internet, and the connectivity it gives people to others, makes it almost a reflex for one to alienate others.


----------



## Classist. (Jun 12, 2019)

Rumpled Foreskin said:


> The internet, and the connectivity it gives people to others, makes it almost a reflex for one to alienate others.


I wish there was a sad reaction I could use for posts like this.


----------



## Rumpled Foreskin (Jun 12, 2019)

Sorry, fam.


----------



## Exigent Circumcisions (Jun 12, 2019)

Just worry about yourself and do what you can to foster community. These socially stunted types deserve our pity but what can we do other than try to show a better path?

Learn to do things that other people can enjoy and will break them out of their shell. I play guitar and sing in parks and other public spaces with a sign that says "Don't need money: relax and enjoy!" and I end up talking to lots of people who I never would have otherwise.

That's really all that can be done; individuals getting off their asses and making small changes to their local milieu. Everything else would dissolve into tyranny or be artificial and lifeless.

Least, that's what I reckon. -spits-

Oh and check out some churches, find one with decent people and maybe listen to a sermon or two.


----------



## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 12, 2019)

Lol, just raise some kids on books and talking and they'll be like superman to the next generation. Barely even joking tbh.


----------



## oldTireWater (Jun 12, 2019)

Eh, plenty of people were socially and physically isolated before the internet. A lot of people are learning bad behaviors because of social media nurture, but the basement dwellers have always had it in their nature.


----------



## Eryngium (Jun 12, 2019)

I know it sounds stupid and never will happen due to how entwined technology has gotten with out daily lives, but I think it would be a good thing to ban the internet for like a day or two a week to encourage social interactions or something, It always makes me sad when i'm somewhere, looking around, but can't make eye contact with anyone cause they are all on their phones.


----------



## bev (Jun 12, 2019)

A lot of people don't realize just how drastically different communicating online versus offline is. While yes, texting someone or posting on forums satisfy the same basic intimacy needs (and does provide significant perks), online communication lacks the benefits that offline communication has. 

Talking to people offline provide opportunities for conflict to arise (like yes-butting, interruptions, tone-shift, body language, etc.), and we learn how to cope with the conflicts and develop strategies to mitigate future conflicts. Those strategies are only maintained through practice. Since we cut off nearly all nonverbal cues when we're online, we don't develop those strategies. Talking to people offline becomes more intimidating and frustrating since less people understand how to respond appropriately in the moment. At the same time, due to our current style of livelihood (of working to live), we're inevitably isolated more often than not. For a lot of people, engaging in social activity isn't a possibility or a convenience.

That's why we're starting to see so many couples online. It's just easier since there's less of a chance of conflict and you can do it from home. You can literally shop for your next boyfriend/girlfriend if you're lonely by going on any dating site. And once you do develop a relationship, thanks to the accessibility of tech, you can be physically isolated without jeopardizing your relationship since all you need to do is send a text. There's also less of a need to be totally vulnerable, which is already bringing me to another tangent.

Anyway, it's online communication is efficient, lazy, and less nerve-wracking, but we absolutely do lose a lot because of it. If you're interested, here's an article by Finkel et. al about the benefits and repercussions to online communication (through the scope of romantic relationships, though). It's long but worth a read.


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 12, 2019)

Real life doesn't have a Block function.  I don't think it's surprising in any sense that people are fleeing into their phones, onto Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and so on.  Give people a choice between the right way and the easy way, they choose easy 9 times out of 10... with a 10 percent margin of error there.


----------



## Exigent Circumcisions (Jun 12, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Lol, just raise some kids on books and talking and they'll be like superman to the next generation. Barely even joking tbh.


For real, my kids are going to be the uber mensch to these pale, frail and frightened little turds they're turning out right now.


----------



## Clop (Jun 12, 2019)

Internet's easy, fam. It's also at least something.

Imagine someone sitting at home with the only skills to their name being indoor activities and no interest in alcohol and then imagine the little sad fuck can't even have an Internet connection. People in mental institutions at least have someone to talk to.


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 12, 2019)

Clop said:


> Internet's easy, fam. It's also at least something.
> 
> Imagine someone sitting at home with the only skills to their name being indoor activities and no interest in alcohol and then imagine the little sad fuck can't even have an Internet connection. People in mental institutions at least have someone to talk to.



...What, the voices in their head? Orderlies and doctors aren't great for conversation and other patients? Hooboy.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 12, 2019)

It'll lead to some cool media, I bet. More schizoids = more cool shit.


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 12, 2019)

Y2KKK Baby said:


> It'll lead to some cool media, I bet. More schizoids = more cool shit.


More Wesley Willises can only be a good thing.


----------



## Clop (Jun 12, 2019)

Sprig of Parsley said:


> ...What, the voices in their head? Orderlies and doctors aren't great for conversation and other patients? Hooboy.


Come on man, I think you're great company.


----------



## Crunchy Leaf (Jun 12, 2019)

There seem to be way more people with really severe anxiety, too. Like, people who can't call anyone or can't email anyone without breaking down. And then they justify it by saying they're an introvert, but that's not what introversion is. 

Video games play a role in this too. Everyone's heard stories of guys who do nothing but play League all day. Not good.


----------



## дядя Боря (Jun 12, 2019)

as sucky Internet may seem, I remember the days when long distance calls used to be few dollars a minute and dollar was worth more. Calling another city, never mind country was budget breaking.

I also remember first time signing on IIRC and spending two fucking days straight talking to people all over the world about everything. It was fucking awesome.


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 12, 2019)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> There seem to be way more people with really severe anxiety, too. Like, people who can't call anyone or can't email anyone without breaking down. And then they justify it by saying they're an introvert, but that's not what introversion is.
> 
> Video games play a role in this too. Everyone's heard stories of guys who do nothing but play League all day. Not good.


Anyone who plays LoL all day is going to turn into a homicidal maniac.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 12, 2019)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> There seem to be way more people with really severe anxiety, too. Like, people who can't call anyone or can't email anyone without breaking down. And then they justify it by saying they're an introvert, but that's not what introversion is.
> 
> Video games play a role in this too. Everyone's heard stories of guys who do nothing but play League all day. Not good.





Sprig of Parsley said:


> Anyone who plays LoL all day is going to turn into a homicidal maniac.


I play LoL all day. I'm just South Korean.


----------



## Exigent Circumcisions (Jun 13, 2019)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> There seem to be way more people with really severe anxiety, too. Like, people who can't call anyone or can't email anyone without breaking down. And then they justify it by saying they're an introvert, but that's not what introversion is.
> 
> Video games play a role in this too. Everyone's heard stories of guys who do nothing but play League all day. Not good.



There's a lot of people who _claim _to have anxiety because it can excuse their laziness, but would they have a breakdown that required a trip to the E.R.? Probably not, I'd say. They're only anxious about things they don't _want_ to do which is, of course, very convenient for them. It's just fashionable to be disabled now; look over the Munchausen's threads for more details. Hell, Tumblr threads, SJW threads... you get the point.

The fact that they claim introversion to try to cover for their ineptitude pretty much seals it; most of these people are social media whores and will not be left alone (whether IRL or online) lest they have a thought that might make them feel uncomfortable.

There may have been a bit of a rise in actual anxiety disorders in the last few years but they'd be easily solved if people would just go outside and find other people to talk to. "Oh it's so hard now! Everyone's on their phone!" says literally everyone, while they stare at their phones, and then hey what do you know? It just gets harder and harder.

As for video games; why blame the vice when you can blame the person indulging in it? Without vidya these guys would probably be down at the arcade playing pinball or in the speakeasy shooting pool... or just getting pissed-drunk at the bar. That's not anybody's fault except for that person and it's not helping anybody to blame inanimate objects for our personal vices.

Also LoL is the shit and I can't wait for the next update!


----------



## Sped Xing (Jun 13, 2019)

Close friendship is extremely overrated.  Don't let movies and TV make you feel like you need a supportive cloud of people who don't even touch your genitals.  Mind your business, save your money, and enjoy life.


----------



## Classist. (Jun 13, 2019)

Ped Xing said:


> Close friendship is extremely overrated.  Don't let movies and TV make you feel like you need a supportive cloud of people who don't even touch your genitals.  Mind your business, save your money, and enjoy life.


I disagree. I don't have any problem with minding your own business, saving money, and enjoying life. However, I  think that close friends are wonderful and should be cherished and loved as if they were family. In my case life without my two best friends would be significantly more hollow feeling, cold, and boring. I think that it's just fine and in fact admirable to find meaning and solace in yourself and your lifestyle but that doesn't mean that you cant derive meaning from external sources too.


----------



## TerribleIdeas™ (Jun 13, 2019)

Exigent Circumcisions said:


> For real, my kids are going to be the uber mensch to these pale, frail and frightened little turds they're turning out right now.



You're sounding like John Krese in the 1st episode of the 2nd season of Cobra Kai, talking about how it's Cobra Kai's job to stiffen the spines of some pussies.
And it isn't actually wrong, the way it's put, in the episode.


----------



## Sped Xing (Jun 13, 2019)

I haven't had a "best friend" since grade school.  Childhood has to end sometime.


----------



## Super Color Up (Jun 13, 2019)

TerribleIdeas™ said:


> You're sounding like John Krese in the 1st episode of the 2nd season of Cobra Kai, talking about how it's Cobra Kai's job to stiffen the spines of some pussies.
> And it isn't actually wrong, the way it's put, in the episode.


Kreese's idea of making people tougher isn't wrong in concept, but he's going about it wrong. Johnny almost had it right, but he didn't bother to check the ramifications of going too hard. 

William Zabka has no fucking right being that hot that old.

Anyway, I wouldn't consider myself tough, but I look damn near gladitorial in comparison to my friends. They almost sound envious by how I'm apparently "assertive" and "confident."
Bitch, being able to talk to the clerk at the store and buy something when you can't isn't a skill. I get social nerves can be fraying, but at what point do you become a frail flower and not normal, functioning person?


----------



## TerribleIdeas™ (Jun 13, 2019)

Super Color Up said:


> Kreese's idea of making people tougher isn't wrong in concept, but he's going about it wrong. Johnny almost had it right, but he didn't bother to check the ramifications of going too hard.
> 
> William Zabka has no fucking right being that hot that old.
> 
> ...



I'm about to start ep3, and I can see the foreshadowing about Hawk and Miguel, and the conflict that'll create between Krese and Lawrence. And you're right Johnny has the right idea, and is clearly fumbling the right way, but he's been fucked by life repeatedly, so when Krese says the right things, he feels like the beginning of his redemption is something he might be able to share.

Larusso is an asshole an awful lot, but the show is surprisingly deep.


----------



## Classist. (Jun 13, 2019)

Ped Xing said:


> I haven't had a "best friend" since grade school.  Childhood has to end sometime.


You can still be an adult and have best friends. Polibius and Scipio were best friends, JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis were also really close for a while (though they grew distant due largely to literary/religious disagreements if I remember right). These are just some famous historical examples, in fact there are plenty of functional productive adults who have close friends right now. Humans are generally very social and I think that having at least 1 good friend is both very normal and very healthy.


----------



## AF 802 (Jun 13, 2019)

I can't have friends because I'm too paranoid they'll either be a far left communist loonie or a Jew-hating far-righter.

Centrism is a rarity, and I don't like it. Can we just agree both sides are dumb, so I can talk to people again?


----------



## Malagor the dank omen (Jun 13, 2019)

Classist. said:


> You can still be an adult and have best friends


Damn right. I'm still in contact with a friend i made in school 13 years ago. We had our good and bad moments like any friends had, but we are still in contact and we consider each other best friends. Right now we pretty much want to meet since we haven't seen each other for nearly one year due to work.


Give Her The D said:


> Centrism is a rarity, and I don't like it. Can we just agree both sides are dumb, so I can talk to people again?


Surprisingly enough, i've met a lot of people who are centrist but sometimes behave as far right/left ironically just for shits and giggles. Thing is that they tend to live more in reality than in social media, which is also a big plus if you don't want to find deranged people whose live revolves solely around their political alignment.


----------



## UQ 770 (Jun 13, 2019)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> There seem to be way more people with really severe anxiety, too. Like, people who can't call anyone or can't email anyone without breaking down. And then they justify it by saying they're an introvert, but that's not what introversion is.



You're on to something here. Being socially stunted is not actually the same as social alienation. Some people are natrually socially stunted, and its either a skill you cultivate or just a mild inconveinience you just learn to live with. We can all relate to this, given where we are.

Social alienation is completely different. I didn't pay much attention to this difference until recently. I've learned firsthand that when something fucks you up sufficently, something gets smashed or broken in your head and suddenly you cannot deal with people anymore regardless of how hard you try or how much benefit it is to you personally. There are degrees of this of course, to the point where some people shut themselves off from all interaction even electronically. This issue is a massive disaster waiting to happen, because everywhere I see withdrawal and anxiety being attributed to social awkwardness, when in reality there is far more exstensive damage lurking beneath if the person really has become alienated with society. 

We're losing a lot of people to what is essentially a crippling mental disorder and if the experts can't figure this shit out, we're going to see an overall breakdown of social interaction altogether. Social alienation is far more dangerous than other problems because, hey, guess what, the person doesn't want to seek help because avoiding human contact as much as possible is the main symptom. At the same time, you can't just drag a social alien away from their computer or their smart phone because they'll be too panicked and crazed to properly interact with people and certainly too berserk to be treated with anything other than tranqs.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Jun 22, 2019)

Alienation is good. Murder should be viewed as a good thing.


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jun 22, 2019)

Ped Xing said:


> I haven't had a "best friend" since grade school.  Childhood has to end sometime.



Then just have a normal friend you sped.


----------



## mr.moon1488 (Jun 22, 2019)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> Then just have a normal friend you sped.


If you had any friend, then wouldn't the best one technically be the "best friend?"


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jun 22, 2019)

mr.moon1488 said:


> If you had any friend, then wouldn't the best one technically be the "best friend?"



Good point.

You know, it raises a question: what if you have a best friend, but you're nobody's best friend?


----------



## UW 411 (Jun 22, 2019)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> Good point.
> 
> You know, it raises a question: what if you have a best friend, but you're nobody's best friend?



Thunkful but it probably means you're dull as dishwater. Or you smell really _really_ rank.


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jun 22, 2019)

Spl00gies said:


> Thunkful but it probably means you're dull as dishwater. Or you smell really _really_ rank.



Maybe you’re a crazy motherfucker who’s entertaining but nobody thinks of as their main person.

This occurred to me several times over my life, and I suspect it’s a common occurrence. Just because somebody is the main person in your life, that doesn’t mean that you’re the main person in their life. The likelihood of that being the case goes up dramatically the less friends you have.


----------



## qu_rahn (Jun 22, 2019)

Ped Xing said:


> I haven't had a "best friend" since grade school.  Childhood has to end sometime.



Imagine giving up on brotherhood and friendship & having laughs with your mates because you've got a job and responsibilities.  Mental


----------



## Sped Xing (Jun 22, 2019)

qu_rahn said:


> Imagine giving up on brotherhood and friendship & having laughs with your mates because you've got a job and responsibilities.  Mental



I guess if you are too stunted to make your own family, you might feel the need to carouse with "mates" until you fossilize.


----------



## qu_rahn (Jun 22, 2019)

Yeah, I mean it's one thing when your kids are young but eventually you are going to want to interact with people who don't share your DNA


----------



## UF6 (Jul 5, 2019)

I highly recommend reading _Amusing Ourselves to Death_ by Neil Postman. This is a very short book, but it places empathizes on many points of society since the 1980s with the deregulation of entertainment/news/ etc. in the United States of America under president Roland Ragen. Postman draws comparisons between Orwell and Huxley about where people would be in a society and it is pointing towards _Brave New World. _That aside, the book talks about how citizens' rights are exchanged for consumers' rights, where the only point is a cradle-to-grave outlook for the individual. Postman also talks about 24-hour news, and how it became a service to a commodity, where the quality of the information becomes lesser, and the extent of advertisements over the progression of the news has increased.

Now, I know what you might be thinking, "How does this relate to today?" Well, in some discernment it does, but for many of us on this website or elsewhere it can be felt today. I do not use the television or watch anything on it, as it is utter twaddle from some of the commentaries made earlier. But, with further power being put into companies to how the content quality has decreased in our politics, health, wealth, and environment, it is not shocking that a succinctly around half of the country votes in elections (voter suppression aside). To the individual who sees the hopelessness of the world, that they inhabit, they may feel no obligation that they can change the trajectory of where society is heading by voting alone.

The rise of prescription medicine does have a correspondence between social separation and the effects of internet usage. For teenagers that are influenced by the internet and how they see themselves to their peers, it is not unexpected that spike in juvenile anorexia correlates to viewing time on cellphones.



			An Exploration of Social Circles and Prescription Drug Abuse Through Twitter
		


Now, the OP talked about social isolation and I am sure there are hermits in various parts of the world, but we are not talking about them. From what I have read on social isolation it boils to usage to the time it takes out of many other activities. As the world becomes more-and-more connected the interactions of human-to-human contact is far less. Social media also reflects a perfect world to an onlooker if they use Facebook that they self-reflect onto themselves from how imperfect they are, even when the people they are interacting with are their friends or co-workers.  






						Researchers link use of Internet, social isolation
					

The Internet has revolutionized the way Americans live and communicate, but at a steep social cost, according to researchers at the Stanford Institute for the Quantitative Study of Society (SIQSS). Compared to those who do not use the Internet frequently, those who do—31 percent of the U.S...



					news.stanford.edu
				




I am going to stop here since it is early in the morning and continue it later.


----------



## JektheDumbass (Jul 5, 2019)

I've lost too many friends to make new ones.  Especially since I cyber-bullied most of them to death.


----------



## Raging Capybara (Jul 6, 2019)

Locomotive Derangement said:


> You're on to something here. Being socially stunted is not actually the same as social alienation. Some people are natrually socially stunted, and its either a skill you cultivate or just a mild inconveinience you just learn to live with. We can all relate to this, given where we are.
> 
> Social alienation is completely different. I didn't pay much attention to this difference until recently. I've learned firsthand that when something fucks you up sufficently, something gets smashed or broken in your head and suddenly you cannot deal with people anymore regardless of how hard you try or how much benefit it is to you personally. There are degrees of this of course, to the point where some people shut themselves off from all interaction even electronically. This issue is a massive disaster waiting to happen, because everywhere I see withdrawal and anxiety being attributed to social awkwardness, when in reality there is far more exstensive damage lurking beneath if the person really has become alienated with society.
> 
> We're losing a lot of people to what is essentially a crippling mental disorder and if the experts can't figure this shit out, we're going to see an overall breakdown of social interaction altogether. Social alienation is far more dangerous than other problems because, hey, guess what, the person doesn't want to seek help because avoiding human contact as much as possible is the main symptom. At the same time, you can't just drag a social alien away from their computer or their smart phone because they'll be too panicked and crazed to properly interact with people and certainly too berserk to be treated with anything other than tranqs.



But what's the problem? Dude is just a lone wolf.


----------

