# Forbidden Knowledge



## ASU (Jun 14, 2016)

This is a thread about the concept of "forbidden knowledge", that is to say, forbidden and restricted (non-military) books and teachings. There are many kinds of forbidden knowledge, the most famous would probably be the (likely mythical) Necronomicon, a book supposedly created by an insane Arab prophet, written in blood and bound in human skin. If it ever existed it was likely destroyed long ago, but scammers have printed fakes that can be found still in most bookshops.

Another type of forbidden knowledge are widely banned books such as Hitlers "Mein Kampf". But there's a third type, a type that is about books and teachings that a person must be initiated into a belief system to legitimately obtain. I'm aware of at least three of these.

The first, which most Kiwis will have at least heard of, are the Masons, or Freemasons. I'm not very knowledgeable about them, but their "secret" books are widely available online, and they are not considered "dangerous" for non-initiates to read. That doesn't apply to the next two groups, however.

The first of these are Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhists. Before I list some of their forbidden books, I'd like to start out by explaining what "secret knowledge" traditionally means to them by referring to a quote from the 1967 book, "The Secret Oral Teachings of Tibetan Buddhist Sects":


> The attainment of transcendent insight is the real object of the training advocated in the traditional Oral Teachings, which do not consist, as so many imagine, in teaching certain things to the pupil, in revealing to him certain secrets, but rather in showing him the means to learn them and discover them for himself.
> 
> The Masters of the secret teachings say that the truth learned from another is of no value, and that the only truth which is living and effective, which is of value, is the truth which we ourselves discover.
> 
> ...


So their secrets are only secret if you lack the ability and patience to discover them within yourself. However, if you attempt to purchase their books you will find some are forbidden to be sold to the general public. You must have an officially recognized teacher approve of your purchasing the book. Why is this? I'll let "The Guyagarbha Tantra -
Secret Essence Definitive Nature Just as It Is" explain:


> ...anyone wishing to enter the path of Secret Mantra who does not first receive empowerment prior to listening to or reading the teaching will not only fail to reap the benefit of the blessings, but will
> actually bring unwanted harm and even ruin upon themselves. This is mentioned in the tenth chapter of the root tantra:
> 
> "Failing to please the vajra master and not receiving empowerment-
> ...


This book runs $150, and on its publishers website is posted:


> Restricted text: Anyone interested in purchasing or reading this text must have received the empowerment of Vajrasattva's Magical Manifestation Matrix for the peaceful and wrathful deities from either the kama or the terma tradition and must have received the reading transmission.


There are many of these forbidden Vajrayana texts that I can name, another is called "The Roar of Thunder - Yamantaka Practice and Commentary". What is Yamantaka, and why is it forbidden to teach it to the public?


> Yamantaka is a wrathful, buffalo-headed meditational deity (Tib: yi-dam) of the Highest Yoga Tantra class... he is always depicted as fear-inducing, scary, and intimidating. Not only is he terrifying to look at but - according to the Vajrabhairava Tantra - he also has conquered all evil spirits, including the Lord of Death, Yama. That's why he is also called "Yamantaka", the Slayer of Death. The Vajrabhairava Tantra belongs to the father tantra using negative emotions such as anger and hatred as the path. Vajrabhairava is powerful enough to overcome and subdue even the most powerful negative emotions. Visualizing oneself in this highly energetic form of the yidam is said to help conquer and transform such negative emotions:
> 
> "Like other wrathful deities, Yamantaka gives the forces of the Shadow [in the Jungian sense] a symbol that hooks their energy and provides a channel and direction for their expression and transformation" (Preece, p. 187).


Yamantaka is the act of channeling anger until you transcend normal understandings of reality. Heavy shit, right? Where did this teaching come from?


> The origin of the bull-head is ascribed to the tradition which speaks of a holy man who lived in a cave, practicing meditation. As he was about to achieve his objective and enter nirvana, two thieves with a stolen bull entered the cave and slaughtered it. When they saw the ascetic, a witness to their crime, they beheaded him too. But to their astonishment, the victim lifted the head of the bull and replacing his own severed head with it, became the ferocious form of Yama. He then not only devoured the two thieves, but his insatiable thirst for human blood threatened the whole population. The followers of the Vajrayana, therefore, appealed to Manjusri who, then assuming the fierce bull-headed form of Yamantaka, defeated Yama in a fearful struggle.


So Yamantaka can be considered the Deity of "Getting So Angry You Forget To Be Dead".

But still these books are purchasable. What of those that have no price?

Most people are at least vaguely familiar with Satanists. What most don't know is that the Church of Satan split, many decades ago, and those that departed splintered into what became known as The Temple of Set.

The ToS is an Esoteric Setian Order devoted to darkness, "Utterances" that create "Aeons", and personal development (no, really, lol). Their knowledge and teachings have been written in a number of books, the majority of which are only available to certain ranks within the Temple. Their highest-ranking book is called "The Sapphire Tablet of Set", and it is only given to those who earn the position of High Priest. The "Crystal Tablet of Set", given to those who pass their year(s)-long initiation period, is over 1300 pages in length (although I'm not quoting it here because I don't care to piss off Satanic Cults).

Do any other Kiwis know the names of any more forbidden instructions belonging to groups like these?


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## ActualKiwi (Jun 14, 2016)

I heard there was such a thing as the Necrosonichon, but that may have just been a rumour.
On-topic, truly forbidden texts are hard to find because knowledge of them is just that-forbidden. So they get lost and nature does the rest.


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## Mark Corrigan (Jun 14, 2016)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum


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## ASU (Jun 14, 2016)

Finding them, in the internet age, is actually easy. I have all the books I've mentioned.

Finding their names in order to track them down is the hard part. This sort of knowledge is something that only those that bother to look for it realize exists, which is why I'm asking; I'm sure there are schools of thought I'm ignorant of.

I doubt I'll get much in the way of real responses but I like posting things people don't expect to see here.


Mark Corrigan said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_Librorum_Prohibitorum


Thanks, but that's just books historically banned by the Catholic Church.


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## ActualKiwi (Jun 14, 2016)

Ahh but how can you guarantee that what you have is in fact the real deal, rather than just some shyster's knockoff of it? That's the problem with collecting any such items.


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## ASU (Jun 14, 2016)

ActualKiwi said:


> Ahh but how can you guarantee that what you have is in fact the real deal, rather than just some shyster's knockoff of it? That's the problem with collecting any such items.


Because:


> The attainment of transcendent insight is the real object of the training advocated in the traditional Oral Teachings, which do not consist, as so many imagine, in teaching certain things to the pupil, in revealing to him certain secrets, but rather in showing him the means to learn them and discover them for himself.
> 
> The Masters of the secret teachings say that the truth learned from another is of no value, and that the only truth which is living and effective, which is of value, is the truth which we ourselves discover.
> 
> If this were not the case, it would be enough for us to read the innumerable works in which philosophers, savants and doctors of the different religions have explained their views and to choose from among them one which agrees with our own ideas and to which we can cleave.


Or, to put that another way, these books are not books of answers like some great cosmic cheat sheet. They are self-help manuals that allow you to explore your consciousness without drugs. They either work, and you feel it when you practice their lessons, or they don't. There is no middle ground. This is not simply religion. It is psychology combined with posture and breathing exercises and trance states, etc. 

This is in addition to noting that there are plenty of former members of these groups that can verify authenticity.


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## XYZpdq (Jun 14, 2016)

ASU said:


> There are many of these forbidden Vajrayana texts that I can name, another is called "The Roar of Thunder - Yamantaka Practice and Commentary". What is Yamantaka, and why is it forbidden to teach it to the public?
> Yamantaka is the act of channeling anger until you transcend normal understandings of reality. Heavy shit, right? Where did this teaching come from?
> So Yamantaka can be considered the Deity of "Getting So Angry You Forget To Be Dead".





Spoiler: That sounds totally fucking awesome.


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## ASU (Jun 14, 2016)

XYZpdq said:


> Spoiler: That sounds totally fucking awesome.


Ha, yeah. I was thinking last night that it's very likely the religious inspiration for the idea of going super-saiyan. There's a lot of pop culture references that suddenly make a weird amount of sense when you realize they were all mostly stolen from earlier cultures. The Force from Star Wars is heavily based on Zen, for instance.


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## millais (Jun 14, 2016)

You can get all those Scientology texts for free online due to the leaks over the years, but back in the day those cultists had to pay many thousands of dollars to the organization to get access to them.


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## Dr. Meme (Jun 14, 2016)

not supposed to share this one but mcdonalds secret sauce? yeah thats just thousand island dressing.


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## Pepsi-Cola (Jun 14, 2016)

I forget the name of it, but iirc that Japanese death cult that did nerve gas attacks in Tokyo had a written bible or some other kind of theological text that was lost or forbidden. 

Again, if I'm remembering this right, parts of it were leaked and it's batshit insane. It includes stuff about how the British Royal Family are the heads of the Illuminati, how the group's founder was the Buddhist Reincarnation of Jesus, how the USA is Satan as described in the bible, how the Dutch are planning nuclear war, etc.


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## Vitriol (Jun 14, 2016)

there is a sovcit movement called Rusa that keeps its constitution secret as it technically brings the groups from legal fraud to domestic terrorists. If someone was to get me a copy i would be ever so grateful.


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## millais (Jun 14, 2016)

Also Mormons won't share their "original" untranslated copy of the Book of Mormon that is supposedly written in an unknown language only Joseph Smith was able to decode and translate.


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## Save Goober (Jun 14, 2016)

KFC'S eleven herbs and spices are forbidden knowledge

More seriously, I think the coke recipe is secret. Not quite forbidden religious knowledge, but overall an interesting topic.


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## ASU (Jun 14, 2016)

Vitriol said:


> there is a sovcit movement called Rusa that keeps its constitution secret as it technically brings the groups from legal fraud to domestic terrorists. If someone was to get me a copy i would be ever so grateful.


Unfortunately, in addition for being the basis for several acronyms, "rusa" is a common word in multiple languages. If you have the formal title of the text it might be possible, although political/military texts are probably out of my league, and such a text would run into the problem of being nigh-impossible to verify the accuracy of unless it was verified by "rusans" or whatever they call themselves.


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## Vitriol (Jun 14, 2016)

ASU said:


> Unfortunately, in addition for being the basis for several acronyms, "rusa" is a common word in multiple languages. If you have the formal title of the text it might be possible, although political/military texts are probably out of my league, and such a text would run into the problem of being nigh-impossible to verify the accuracy of unless it was verified by "rusans" or whatever they call themselves.


The constitution of the Republic for the United States of America (restoration) 2008/1865/1777 Standing Under GOD and OATH. ab initio bona fide ceritiorari. Consensus facit legem. non plc non corporate.

Aka 'the Utah Document'

I could verify it- i've read extracts before but never found the full thing.


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## autisticdragonkin (Jun 14, 2016)

The Doctrine of Fascism
Industrial Society and its Future
Value theory could be considered forbidden knowledge because the contemporary economy depends on people acting in an individualistic hedonistic manner instead of critically looking at what
The possible effects of intellectual property law may also be forbidden knowledge as people knowing them would likely cause large outrage at technological stagnation that occurs from them (but maybe with good reason as this could cause a societal collapse if people knew about it)


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## ASU (Jun 14, 2016)

> RuSA's "Utah Document", the Declaration of Sovereign Intent ("DSI"), of which only about 8 to 10 sentences have been publicly revealed so far. It is so exceedingly secret that even members of the RuSA Congress cannot have copies, and probably haven't even seen a copy, yet they are punished for not complying with it.


Sounds like a clusterfuck.


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## Zeorus (Jun 15, 2016)

millais said:


> Also Mormons won't share their "original" untranslated copy of the Book of Mormon that is supposedly written in an unknown language only Joseph Smith was able to decode and translate.



This actually isn't the case. The Church's teaching on the matter is that the plates were taken up to heaven by the angel who had visited Joseph Smith originally. As for what language they were in - Smith said that they were in a variant of Hebrew written using Egyptian characters (usually called "Reformed Egyptian" by scholars of Mormonism).

Whether or not one chooses to believe this (belief and non-belief are both entirely reasonable), it's not being "hidden" _per se_ (at least, not hidden in the same sense as other knowledge mentioned in this thread).


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## SoldierOfClerici2 (Jun 16, 2020)

All humans want, by nature, to know. A sign of this is our esteem of the senses; for in addition to their usefulness we love them for themselves, and, more than any other, the sense of sight. Not only in the face of action, but even when we are not going to act, we generally prefer sight to all other senses. The reason for this is that in all senses sight helps us better know things, and shows us many distinctions. Animals are born by nature with the ability to feel, and from this some develop memory, while d others do not. And because of this, the former are smarter and more able to learn than those who are unable to remember. Those who cannot hear noises (such as bees and other kinds of similar animals) are intelligent, but cannot learn. Only those who have this sense in addition to memory are able to learn. Other animals live by impressions and memories, and have little experience. On the other hand, the human race also lives by art and reasoning. From memory comes experience to humans, because the many memories of the same action produce the effect of a single experience. Experience seems very similar to science and art, but it is actually through experience that humans acquire art and science.


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## Troonologist PhD (Jun 16, 2020)

The FBI keeps all kinds of statistics on race and crime.


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## Antipathy (Jun 17, 2020)

Troonologist PhD said:


> The FBI keeps all kinds of statistics on race and crime.


Whatever ancient fucking tome of necromancy you cracked open to post here is absolutely the dark arts.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jun 18, 2020)

Not a Buddhist, but I've got a theory why their books could be restricted. 

The earliest forms of Buddhism within India, particularly the Therevada today, are non-theistic. That's not to say they deny the existence of deities, they just don't really have much to say on them either way beyond "Yeah maybe you could be re-incarnated as a God, but even Gods die and it'll be harder to achieve _Moshka_ as a God than a human" (No, seriously, that's a thing). 

As Buddhism spread out, Mahayana Buddhism came to become more popular because like Christianity it began to incorporate and include previously existing or currently standing religions into their practice; the most famous and strange example of this is actually Pure-Land Buddhism, whereupon encounters with Christianity the movement created a literal Heaven and a Messiah you only have to believe in to end up there rather than be reborn on Earth.

That said...While the laity believes and makes offerings to these folk deities and practice magic, if you go a little higher up the food chain to the Monastics or the educated classes these people don't really tend to espouse this as much; if actually at all.  

I can see why something like Tibetan Buddhism which places great respect upon Mahayana theistic works like the _Lotus_ and _Crystal Sutras_ wouldn't be handing out copies of textbooks interpreting the Buddah's own personal Atheism; or at very least would make sure it only was discussed between people who understood a _Bohdisattva _and a western concept of divinity were very different things and could articulate the nuanced differences.

Scientology is a prime example of this. When we heard about Xenu we just laughed at the bullshit, to the mind that has been carefully groomed to be ready to interpret Xenu through a specific viewpoint and perspective I'm sure he makes a lot more sense to them.


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## betterbullocks (Jun 23, 2020)

millais said:


> Also Mormons won't share their "original" untranslated copy of the Book of Mormon that is supposedly written in an unknown language only Joseph Smith was able to decode and translate.


I might be wrong about this because I learnt it years ago in church before I deconverted, but iirc, some allegedly holy tablets in Mormonism were translated by an archaelogist and who found it was actually an instructional text on proper burial rituals, zero relation to Abraham or anything. I could be entirely wrong though, I was told a lot of nutty things by the church


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## Lemmingwise (Jun 24, 2020)

I remember when wu-tang clan made an album and then decided to only sell it once to the highest bidder. Practically the reverse that happens with any other music. This creates mystery and perceived value by exclusivity and obscurity. But it probably sounds pretty much the same as the rest of their grunting and shouting laid over pretty okay beats.

With that said, E Michael Jones books just got banned of amazon yesterday. If there is one thing we're drawn more to over closely guarded books, it's books that other people don't want you to read. Even though there too they're probably the same as his other work; plenty of interesting research with non sequitor conclusions.

When you open up to books that got recently banned, I could compile a list, when I get off work. I also still have a copy of a turkish cult that I used to belong to. We had to translate it by hand into different languages. I probably am the only person that digitized it (this was forbidden). I could share the english one if anyone gives a fuck.



Pepsi-Cola said:


> It includes stuff about how the British Royal Family are the heads of the Illuminati,



This doesn't sound that wrong,



Pepsi-Cola said:


> how the USA is Satan



This is also true, why are you saying he's insane... oh wait...



Pepsi-Cola said:


> how the Dutch are planning nuclear war,



WE SO ARE NOT. PLEASE DON'T INSPECT OUR WINDMILLS.


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## dirtydeanna96 (Jun 24, 2020)

betterbullocks said:


> I might be wrong about this because I learnt it years ago in church before I deconverted, but iirc, some allegedly holy tablets in Mormonism were translated by an archaelogist and who found it was actually an instructional text on proper burial rituals, zero relation to Abraham or anything. I could be entirely wrong though, I was told a lot of nutty things by the church



That's the book of Abraham.
Brother Joseph didn't "translate" those, I think the story was... God told him the general meaning or something.
But yes. A few of the original papyrus from the book of Abraham were re-discovered. They are funerary texts (ie run of the mill for ancient Egypt)



millais said:


> Also Mormons won't share their "original" untranslated copy of the Book of Mormon



An "untranslated" book of mormon never existed. When it was being "translated" someone stole 100 pages, to see if Smith could reproduce them. He rewrote that part slightly differently, and the missing pages never turned up.
The closest that has ever existed to the "golden plates" is Oliver Cowdery's handwriting


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## betterbullocks (Jun 24, 2020)

TalmudSperg said:


> That's the book of Abraham.
> Brother Joseph didn't "translate" those, I think the story was... God told him the general meaning or something.
> But yes. A few of the original papyrus from the book of Abraham were re-discovered. They are funerary texts (ie run of the mill for ancient Egypt)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the fact check lad, had always wondered how right it was


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## Basil II (Jun 25, 2020)

Fagatron said:


> Not a Buddhist, but I've got a theory why their books could be restricted.
> 
> The earliest forms of Buddhism within India, particularly the Therevada today, are non-theistic. That's not to say they deny the existence of deities, they just don't really have much to say on them either way beyond "Yeah maybe you could be re-incarnated as a God, but even Gods die and it'll be harder to achieve _Moshka_ as a God than a human" (No, seriously, that's a thing).
> 
> ...


What are your thoughts on Transcendental Meditation? It's a weird celeb cult based off Hinduism and sort of led by David Lynch.

http://suggestibility.org/ dude here has about to say about it, whether you believe him is up to you.


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## Just Here for A and H (Jul 1, 2020)

You know, if occult shit is real, the reason it's treated as esoteric and not exoteric likely stems from the fact the average person is a functional retard (and 50% are even more retarded), not a malicious desire to hoard power. Imagine, for example, that Magic Missiles from various role playing games were real. Would you trust Karen, Lil W1gga, Tyrese or Sharkeitha with that? If any such forbidden knowledge in our world is forbidden, it is for everyone's well-being that it stays that way.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 1, 2020)

Just Here for A and H said:


> You know, if occult shit is real, the reason it's treated as esoteric and not exoteric likely stems from the fact the average person is a functional retard (and 50% are even more retarded), not a malicious desire to hoard power. Imagine, for example, that Magic Missiles from various role playing games were real. Would you trust Karen, Lil W1gga, Tyrese or Sharkeitha with that? If any such forbidden knowledge in our world is forbidden, it is for everyone's well-being that it stays that way.


We trust them with guns. It's not a huge difference. Well you americans do, anyways.


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## Just Here for A and H (Jul 1, 2020)

I'm Canadian, but we have a similar rate of gun ownership, so I'll allow it.


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## Johan Schmidt (Jul 1, 2020)

If magic were real we'd be using it. To think that magic is real, and somehow not being exploited like oil or gas is to misunderstand the capricious and greedy nature of humans. If crystals healed the sick then you'd be paying through the nose to use licences medicare ones.


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## TaimuRadiu (Jul 1, 2020)

"vonu" movement

it's something like a sovcit thing, the only stuff I can find is from scans of 1970s freeman on the land type zines

also some ancient forms of black magic that appear to have last been recorded as being practiced in the court of louis xiv


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 1, 2020)

Johan Schmidt said:


> If magic were real we'd be using it. To think that magic is real, and somehow not being exploited like oil or gas is to misunderstand the capricious and greedy nature of humans. If crystals healed the sick then you'd be paying through the nose to use licences medicare ones.



While I don't believe in magic this argumentation isn't complete. It's wholly possible for that greediness to express itself through secrecy. In that case it would be exploited, just not openly. Particularly if it was possible to use it as weapon or to curse with.
The assumption that all knowledge of technology (or magic) is public is false. Because there are incentives to keep certain advances confidential, it stands to reason that at least some percentage of it, no matter how tiny, exists outside of the public domain.


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