# Ethical slaughter



## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

How can it be ethical to kill something that doesn't want to die when it's unnecessary? Someone might say that if you stun an animal before slaughter, then they won't know what hit them and that's more ethical than killing them without stunning them first. It doesn't make it ethical though because they have a will to live still. Even farms that let cattle roam around and graze peacefully before being slaughtered one day still don't want to die in the end, therefore it is not ethical. I think 'ethical slaughter' is an oxymoron. Things can't be more ethical or less ethical. The way you treat something either is or isn't. Some idiot in the Destiny thread thinks that kids in CP can be treated more or less harshly. I'm sure nobody in their right mind agrees that CP can be more or less ethical. Both CP and animal slaughter involve a victim that suffers needlessly. Before someone says that people need to eat animals to survive, millions of people live long healthy lives without doing it. If humans needed to eat other animals to survive, I would've been dead a long, long time ago. Please don't dogpile, I just want to hear other's thoughts on this subject.

Edit: I meant to say humane instead of ethical..long day at work. I'm sorry. This thread should be bulldozed but I know that doesn't happen here...laugh at me


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

1864897514651 said:


> An easier question to answer is why we kill men.


Because they’re also delicious.


YourUnclesDad said:


> I think 'ethical slaughter' is an oxymoron. Things can't be more ethical or less ethical.


At the end of the day, life consumes life to survive.  It’s unavoidable.  Whether you’re consuming the living organism that absorbed the sun’s rays or a critter who consumed it first, there’s no way around that.  Most living things don’t want to die, but we all do.  And we didn’t create the natural order we’re bound to.   So is it better to humanely slaughter an animal than to make it suffer?  Well, yes.  Just because it has to die doesn’t mean it deserves to suffer.  There’s absolutely an ethical valley there.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

I believe that we are all equal. Sure, humans are superior as far as survival goes but I don't need or want animals to serve me in any way. It's why I'm also not reproducing and taking the risk that I will be responsible for another person existing who eats animals. Every living thing has its advantages and disadvantages so I don't see one better than the other. I used to eat bacon and enjoyed it but I can hold back on that if it means that I won't be participating in an animal dying. I don't think my tastes are worth the suffering and death of another living thing. What I'm getting at is, causing needless suffering is unethical. To me it's wrong.



Testaclese Maximus said:


> Because they’re also delicious.
> 
> At the end of the day, life consumes life to survive.  It’s unavoidable.  Whether you’re consuming the living organism that absorbed the sun’s rays or a critter who consumed it first, there’s no way around that.  Most living things don’t want to die, but we all do.  And we didn’t create the natural order we’re bound to.   So is it better to humanely slaughter an animal than to make it suffer?  Well, yes.  Just because it has to die doesn’t mean it deserves to suffer.  There’s absolutely an ethical valley there.


I only consume plants because they lack a central nervous system and don't feel pain. Try cutting up a live carrot and a pig side by side and you'll see what I mean.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I only consume plants because they lack a central nervous system and don't feel pain. Try cutting up a live carrot and a pig side by side and you'll see what I mean.


I just finished.  It was noisy and messy as shit.  Also pointless, since carrots don’t have mouths to scream.  Still fun though.  But the mere fact that you cite one living thing’s lack of pain as justification for killing it over another means that you do prioritize suffering, thus contradicting your earlier argument that you don’t.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I believe that we are all equal.


Then what's the point of asking, if your belief boils down to the fact you hold human and animal life in the same regard then I don't think there's much that can be said since most arguments would say humans are more important than animals so their lives aren't as valued as a human's. I mean you said that a child being raped is the same as killing an animal because they both cause needless suffering, which I think is a pretty silly comparison.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> I just finished.  It was noisy and messy as shit.  Also pointless, since carrots don’t have mouths to scream.  Still fun though.  But the mere fact that you cite one living thing’s lack of pain as justification for killing it over another means that you do prioritize suffering, thus contradicting your earlier argument.


Why should I feel guilty eating a carrot when the carrot doesn't feel pain or try to survive? If it's self-defense from an attacking animal then sure, but if it's because "beef and bacon is delicious" then that's just selfish.



Spicy Hog said:


> Then what's the point of asking, if your belief boils down to the fact you hold human and animal life in the same regard then I don't think there's much that can be said since most arguments would say humans are more important than animals so their lives aren't as valued as a human's. I mean you said that a child being raped is the same as killing an animal because they both cause needless suffering, which I think is a pretty silly comparison.


I do get you on what's the point of even asking. But can you explain how at the core these two scenarios are very different? Each has a victim, both don't want to be a victim, and both are unneccesary. I guess this ties into me believing all animals are equal. I could see why someone who doesn't think that could call this silly.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I do get you on what's the point of even asking. But can you explain how at the core these two scenarios are very different? Each has a victim, both don't want to be a victim, and both are unneccesary.


A human life is more valuable than an animal's life, if you understood the point of asking then why did you ask me to explain the difference of the two scenarios. If a man is fucking a pig people would call him a weirdo and arrest him, if a man was fucking a kid he would be beaten and raped for the rest of his life in prison.
Also you can just quote two people and reply in a single post you don't have to post twice.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> Why should I feel guilty eating a carrot when the carrot doesn't feel pain or try to survive? If it's self-defense from an attacking animal then sure, but if it's because "beef and bacon is delicious" then that's just selfish.


Did the carrot give you permision to eat it?  No, therefore you don’t have its consent.  Just because it can’t fight or run doesn’t mean it’s any more cool with being eaten than a cow is.  Hell, some plants develope natural defenses against being eaten.  And, again, you’ve already contradicted your own original argument that it isn’t more ethical to kill something that feels less pain, because that’s twice now that you’ve cited a lack of pain as justification for consuming one thing over another.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Spicy Hog said:


> A human life is more valuable than an animal's life, if you understood the point of asking then why did you ask me to explain the difference of the two scenarios. If a man is fucking a pig people would call him a weirdo and arrest him, if a man was fucking a kid he would be beaten and raped for the rest of his life in prison.
> Also you can just quote two people and reply in a single post you don't have to post twice.


The multi quote isn't working on my phone. You saying a human life is more valuable than an animal's is your opinion. It's really not a fact or truth, just your subjective opinion. That's why I asked.


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## Nekromantik (Mar 27, 2018)

I've hunted, cleaned and slaughtered animals that I helped raised. I can say that we kill them as quick as possible so suffering is short. I couldn't tell you how bad the suffering before death is, as I'm not in that steers place, but I wouldn't compare the seconds between a bolt gun going off and death to repeatedly raping a child for maybe years.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> The multi quote isn't working on my phone. You saying a human life is more valuable than an animal's is your opinion. It's really not a fact or truth, just your subjective opinion. That's why I asked.


I mean I dunno about subjective, a pig will grow up eat and shit and then die one day. A kid will grow up eat and shit and maybe he'll invent the hyper warp drive that leads humanity into the future. I think human life holds more potential than an animal's so I can't agree with the notion that human life is more valuable than an animal's is subjective.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> Did the carrot give you permision to eat it?  No, therefore you don’t have its consent.  And, again, you’ve already contradicted your own original argument that it isn’t more ethical to kill something that feels less pain, because that’s twice now that you’ve cited a lack of pain as justification for consuming one thing over another.


So you're saying that it's just as bad to eat a carrot as it is to eat a cow?


Nekromantik said:


> I've hunted, cleaned and slaughtered animals that I helped raised. I can say that we kill them as quick as possible so suffering is short. I couldn't tell you how bad the suffering before death is, as I'm not in that steers place, but I wouldn't compare the seconds between a bolt gun going off and death to repeatedly raping a child for maybe years.


Sometimes the animal doesn't die right away and goes through agony for a very long time.



Spicy Hog said:


> I mean I dunno about subjective, a pig will grow up eat and shit and then die one day. A kid will grow up eat and shit and maybe he'll invent the hyper warp drive that leads humanity into the future. I think human life holds more potential than an animal's so I can't agree with the notion that human life is more valuable than an animal's is subjective.


Why is humanity more important than any other animal?


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## QB 290 (Mar 27, 2018)

Think about it this way.

Billions upon Billions of animals have lived and died before we were born and Billions upon Billions of animals will die after we're gone. The same applies to humans, we live and die and the world will keep spinning regardless of whether we're there to see it.
Everyone and everything dies. We're generally lucky enough to die in humane ways, sometimes painless, sometimes surrounded by friends and family, often with enough time to reflect on our life. Animals don't have that natural privilege. The butchers cleaver sounds gruesome, sure. But when you compare it to infection or disease, or being hit by a car or attacked by a dog and bleeding out, or starvation or even dying in the million stupid ways animals have done and continue to do because life is unfair, it doesn't sound so bad.
Trust me when i say that the cleaver is usually the best way out for them, because if it won't be the cleaver then it'll be something much worse.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> So you're saying that it's just as bad to eat a carrot as it is to eat a cow?


I’m saying neither is inherently bad in and of itself.


YourUnclesDad said:


> Why is humanity more important than any other animal?


Someday the sun is going to expand and engulf the Earth, and all life on it will cease to be, unless we colonize other worlds outside of that radius before it happens.  There’s only one species on Earth making breakthroughs in space travel right now: Americans.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Alpha Loves You said:


> Think about it this way.
> 
> Billions upon Billions of animals have lived and died before we were born and Billions upon Billions of animals will die after we're gone. The same applies to humans, we live and die and the world will keep spinning regardless of whether we're there to see it.
> Everyone and everything dies. We're generally lucky enough to die in humane ways, sometimes painless, sometimes surrounded by friends and family, often with enough time to reflect on our life. Animals don't have that natural privilege. The butchers cleaver sounds gruesome, sure. But when you compare it to infection or disease, or being hit by a car or attacked by a dog and bleeding out, or starvation or even dying in the million stupid ways animals have done and continue to do because life is unfair, it doesn't sound so bad.
> Trust me when i say that the cleaver is usually the best way out for them, because if it won't be the cleaver then it'll be something much worse.


They don't have to die by the butcher's cleaver at all and they wouldn't exist to die of infection or disease if we didn't raise them by the billions each year. 

I get what you are all saying. I guess it just comes down to one's personal beliefs and how they want to live. Thanks for not freaking out on me though. This is quite unusual.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> Why is humanity more important than any other animal?


We lived long, we're on top of the food chain, we're so advanced we make up bullshit to entertain ourselves. I don't think a chicken created videogames or the internet, I would believe a monkey made the kwiwfarms forum though. I think animal life is important, but not more important than us, if we stopped eating meat then all those cows, pigs, and chickens raised in those farms would die off. Their sole existence is to feed us, and they have the ability to continue to reproduce and make the babies to ensure that their genes will continue on as long as we find them tasty.


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## Nekromantik (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> Sometimes the animal doesn't die right away and goes through agony for a very long time.


I still say a child getting raped is far worse. That animal will die in minutes, a child getting sexually abused will suffer for the rest of their live with mental scars. It's far easier for me to understand the child's suffering because we are the same, even if it's a kid that speaks another language I'm going to find it far easier to empathize with them then a pig. I can understand an animal being afraid on a basic level, but they are still animals and I don't know how they will react no matter how domesticated. I understand how a human will react to something because I am human.

I'm not telling you this to change you mind, it's just how I see things. I'm going to have a greater connection with my own species.


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## QB 290 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> They don't have to die by the butcher's cleaver at all and they wouldn't exist to die of infection or disease if we didn't raise them by the billions each year.
> 
> I get what you are all saying. I guess it just comes down to one's personal beliefs and how they want to live. Thanks for not freaking out on me though. This is quite unusual.


Tbf, you're not entirely wrong, nobody enjoys eating meat knowing animals had to die to make it and nobody eats meat* because* animals are dead for it.
But with populations rising and with less and less room for crop growing all the time, sacrifices have to be made. Everyone's gotta eat.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

Nekromantik said:


> I still say a child getting raped is far worse.


That is objectively correct.


Alpha Loves You said:


> nobody enjoys eating meat knowing animals had to die to make it and nobody eats meat* because* animals are dead for it.


I do.  I usually take a picture of the animal so I can stare at it while I eat and laugh.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> Why should I feel guilty eating a carrot when the carrot doesn't feel pain or try to survive? If it's self-defense from an attacking animal then sure, but if it's because "beef and bacon is delicious" then that's just selfish.


It wasn't directed at me and I assume the naughty sticker implies you're done with that conversation so I wanted to address this one. I'm pretty sure plants try to survive, they grow and adapt to their environments, flowers grow towards the sun in order to adsorb it's light so saying that carrots don't try to survive is a very wrong statement. I don't think you should feel guilty for eating a carrot just like how I don't think you should feel guilty for eating a pig.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Nekromantik said:


> I still say a child getting raped is far worse. That animal will die in minutes, a child getting sexually abused will suffer for the rest of their live with mental scars. It's far easier for me to understand the child's suffering because we are the same, even if it's a kid that speaks another language I'm going to find it far easier to empathize with them then a pig. I can understand an animal being afraid on a basic level, but they are still animals and I don't know how they will react no matter how domesticated. I understand how a human will react to something because I am human.
> 
> I'm not telling you this to change you mind, it's just how I see things. I'm going to have a greater connection with my own species.


I understand you. If something greater than ourselves dominated us and basically owned us, I would hope they would consider how we feel and show us mercy.



Testaclese Maximus said:


> That is objectively correct.


How do you know?
Were you molested as a child? 
Were you, a pig, killed for slaughter? How can you say that and mean it?


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I understand you. If something greater than ourselves dominated us and basically owned us, I would hope they would consider how we feel and show us mercy.


Vegan gains is that you? Don't start with the aliens again.


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## Joan Nyan (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> The multi quote isn't working on my phone. You saying a human life is more valuable than an animal's is your opinion. It's really not a fact or truth, just your subjective opinion. That's why I asked.


Nope, it's objectively true. 


> Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> How can you say that and mean it?


Because it’s raping a child vs. humanely slaughtering a pig.  The fuck is wrong with you?


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

I should've replaced ethical with humane in my OP. I was a little hyped up, whoops. You really can't say say that's an objective truth though. I understand both are horrible btw.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> You really can't say say that's an objective truth though


lmao yes I can.


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> lmao yes I can.


Yeah..you can. Doesn't make it an objective truth though.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> Yeah..you can. Doesn't make it an objective truth though.


So you’re saying raping a child is not objectively worse than humanely slaughtering a pig.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

So because it's okay to kill animals in society you think society shouldn't be so hard on pedophiles?


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## YourUnclesDad (Mar 27, 2018)

Spicy Hog said:


> So because it's okay to kill animals in society you think society shouldn't be so hard on pedophiles?


I dont think neither are okay.


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## RG 448 (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I dont think neither are okay.


Okay but child rape is obviously much worse.


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## Spicy Hog (Mar 27, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I dont think neither are okay.


But one is clearly worse than the other, I don't know if you think human life is that worthless or you just hold animals in way to high regard. Are you going to try and force human morality on animals next because you think they're equal to humans?


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## Nekromantik (Mar 27, 2018)

Spicy Hog said:


> But one is clearly worse than the other, I don't know if you think human life is that worthless or you just hold animals in way to high regard. Are you going to try and force human morality on animals next because you think they're equal to humans?



My cat spent half an hour play killing a beetle than he brought it to me to play fetch, it was only mostly dead. If he was human I'd say, that boy ain't right, but he's a cat so I give him a pass on being an asshole. I can't see most animals thinking outside themselves. That's one of the things the separates us from them.


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## Red Hood (Mar 27, 2018)

Speaking as a hunter, the better a shot you are, the less legwork you have to do tracking a dying animal and packing it out. It's in your best interest to put it down clean and quick with a minimum of pain on their part. 

Hunted with a guy in Colorado that shot an elk we had to track for half a day into a canyon. Most miserable hunting trip of my life AND his shot hit the guts, so he ruined a lot of meat we had to run ourselves ragged getting to. Never went hunting with that clown again.


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## Nekromantik (Mar 27, 2018)

The Shadow said:


> AND his shot hit the guts


That shit just wrong on so many levels.


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## Sure Thing Idiot (Mar 27, 2018)

You're not really asking about the ethics or the humane method of killing animals you're just sort of shoehorning your personal opinion into the common topic of debate "is it right to kill animals?" which isn't the same thing.

The answer to THAT question is your decision and yours alone. It's a question  that doesn't have a concrete yes or no because it has to be asked on an individual basis and you're not allowed to take it away from anyone else because it's personal.

Is it _ethical_ to kill animals as _humanely _as possible? Yes. If I go fishing would you rather me let the fish flop around on the ground and die slowly or kill it quickly and end any stress as swiftly as I can? Your argument is getting into the territory of "should I be allowed to fish at all?". I don't eat certain meats because of how they're kept as livestock, or maybe I just like the animal, but that's a personal choice. If someone wants to eat veal or goat all the power to them. I wouldn't, but not because it's right or wrong, but because I personally dont want to. It's like asking should you adopt a puppy or buy one from a puppy mill? The ethical answer is already obvious.


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## swiv (Mar 28, 2018)

YourUnclesDad said:


> I understand you. If something greater than ourselves dominated us and basically owned us, I would hope they would consider how we feel and show us mercy.



They probably wouldn't care, but it would be in their best interests to keep us well-fed and entertained enough that we don't start misbehaving. Hypothetically of course.


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## ICametoLurk (Mar 28, 2018)

Is it ethical to slaughter lolcows?

Discuss.


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## Joan Nyan (Mar 28, 2018)

Sure Thing Idiot said:


> You're not really asking about the ethics or the humane method of killing animals you're just sort of shoehorning your personal opinion into the common topic of debate "is it right to kill animals?" which isn't the same thing.
> 
> The answer to THAT question is your decision and yours alone. It's a question that doesn't have a concrete yes or no because it has to be asked on an individual basis and you're not allowed to take it away from anyone else because it's personal.


While OP is autistic, that doesn't make ethics or morals a matter of personal opinion. I can't kill people or own slaves just because it's my opinion that it's okay. If ethics are to mean anything then they have to apply to everyone.


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## Sure Thing Idiot (Mar 28, 2018)

Jon-Kacho said:


> While OP is autistic, that doesn't make ethics or morals a matter of personal opinion. I can't kill people or own slaves just because it's my opinion that it's okay. If ethics are to mean anything then they have to apply to everyone.



Right. I said asking a question which is diverse and has no universal answer is a matter of personal opinion, like, is killing animals so as to eat the meat right or wrong? That's up to you. Your ethics can be skewed. I'm not talking about owning slaves or raping kids I'm saying that if you humanely slaughter an animal as opposed to slowly letting it die that's leaning on the side of good, humane ethic in terms of slaughter. I'd rather someone shoot me in the head than hang me upside down and kill me by a thousand cuts.

The topic seemed to be humane slaughter and devolved into the discussion of whether or not it's right to take the life of anything then turned into existential debate about the value of life.


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## DNJACK (Dec 30, 2018)

it's better to cook the animal alive. The screams keep the meat tender.


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## Indrid Cold (Dec 30, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> it's better to cook the animal alive. The screams keep the meat tender.


Adrenaline released before death actually sours the meat. 
*PRO TIP:* I find, distracting your prey with a well chosen card-trick or riddle befuddles most beasts long enough for you to sneak around and snap their neck, killing them instantly. No sour meat and seconds before their death, you actually made a friend. win/win!


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## DNJACK (Dec 30, 2018)

Indrid Cold said:


> Adrenaline released before death actually sours the meat.


I have actually grown to like it.


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