# Moral responsibility when a friend troons out



## Slowboat to China (Dec 29, 2017)

Sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.

The TL;DR is that a dear friend of mine, a woman my age, is transitioning into a man. Unfortunately, she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," and if even a quarter of the life story she told me is true then her childhood was one long uninterrupted rape, I could believe it's a desire to escape from trauma--but I'm concerned about her future. She's already on testosterone, and if she doesn't have dysphoria now, she could well be heading towards it. 

I've tried to talk to her and suggest that maybe she's just gender-nonconforming (part of her argument for her trans status rests on the idea that she doesn't fit female stereotypes), but she's convinced she's genuinely trans. I don't want to be labeled a "hater" or cut off from her, and of course I can't know what's going on inside her head, so I'm keeping my peace for now. But I'm worried about her.

Furthermore, I may bear some responsibility for this. This is going to sound incredibly spergy, but I introduced her to anime back in high school. She latched onto the whole pretty-boy idea and I indulged it with the usual teen girl stupid text roleplay. Unfortunately, she never let go of it. If her yaoi boi obsession turns into medical transition, I'm partially responsible for what happens to her.

What should I do, kiwis? Should I hold my peace? Speak up? Is this none of my goddamn business and I should STFU and stop moralfagging? How do you handle it when a friend may be making a dangerous life choice?


----------



## Black Waltz (Dec 29, 2017)

put her out of her misery


----------



## WW 635 (Dec 29, 2017)

Get a new friend


----------



## POWER IN MISERY (Dec 29, 2017)

stop making friends on deviantart


----------



## AnOminous (Dec 29, 2017)

Slowboat to China said:


> What should I do, kiwis? Should I hold my peace? Speak up? Is this none of my goddamn business and I should STFU and stop moralfagging? How do you handle it when a friend may be making a dangerous life choice?



As much as I talk shit here, friends are friends.  You support them.

You can't force them to do anything or change.  At most, you can tell them you think they're headed for a fall, and you can't even be all that forceful about that.  They'll probably ignore you, just like they ignored you when you told them the latest relationship they were getting into with some psycho was doomed and obviously a bad idea.

If none of it affects you directly, keep in touch.  And even if it does, let them know you'll still be around for them if they need you.

No matter how much you care, you can not stop people from doing dumb things.

Don't just disconnect, though.  That's always a mistake.


----------



## Sperglord Dante (Dec 29, 2017)

Slowboat to China said:


> she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," [...]
> What should I do, kiwis?


Start a thread on her, duh.

Seriously though, there isn't much if anything you can do for her. If you try to dictate her life she'll only grow farther from you and double down on gender special ideology out of spite.


----------



## RG 448 (Dec 29, 2017)

Dink Smallwood said:


> put her out of her misery


This.  It’s your responsibility as a friend to put her down clean.

For real though just listen to @AnOminous.


----------



## Green Room (Dec 29, 2017)

I feel like you should definitely speak up, even if she isn't going to listen to you. I think when someone makes a destructive decision its the job of a true friend to hold them accountable. When, not if, they get pissy, walk away and let the chips fall as they may. You did your part and gave them the truth they needed to hear. If you try to _make_ them listen, thats when things become detrimental for you, and you need to look out for yourself first. 

Some people (and maybe your friend isn't this way) do this kind of thing specifically because they want people to worry over them and if you become too engaged in caring about your friend's poor decision, you risk giving them exactly what they want and encouraging them. Don't waste time trying to fix someone who wants to break themselves because if you take care of yourself and do right in life, you can easily make lots of new friends.


----------



## Pickle Inspector (Dec 29, 2017)

Suggest she go to a trained psychiatrist to diagnose her with gender dysphoria and help her transition? (Hopefully then they'd tell her it's just a phase)


----------



## AnOminous (Dec 29, 2017)

rappaport said:


> I feel like you should definitely speak up, even if she isn't going to listen to you. I think when someone makes a destructive decision its the job of a true friend to hold them accountable. When, not if, they get pissy, walk away and let the chips fall as they may.



Speak up to a minimal extent, and back the fuck off when it becomes incredibly obvious the dumb idiot isn't going to listen to you.

You actually can't force people to agree with you.  

I have two ways of dealing with idiots.  My favorite one is just to abuse them and insult them and enjoy their angry responses.

Then there are people I like.  You have to treat them kindly.  You have to understand why they think what they do, and treat their viewpoints with respect.  They're not going to change their minds because you bully them.  This actually just strengthens their views.  This is actually why it's really fun to bully the really dumb ones so they get radicalized enough that they end up representing the viewpoint you hate.

People only change their minds when they think that they thought out their new ideas themselves.


----------



## jewelry investor (Dec 29, 2017)

I had this shit happen to me in highschool. I wish I knew more and was less of coward. Of course he was into nerd shit, and that's a staple of troonism. I'm not sure about reversal, but there are precautions you should take to encourage friends to not consider transitioning at all. Do L.A.D. (which I just invented):

ENCOURAGE *L*IFTING: lifting increases testosterone, fixes hormonal problems and makes you think clearer.

*A*NTAGONIZE: Casually show some troon lowcows, it makes people not even want to imagine being a troon.

ENCOURAGE GOOD *D*IET: No sugar. No carbs. No soy. Also fixes hormonal problems.


----------



## Slowboat to China (Dec 29, 2017)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I have a lot of thinking to do. I did try speaking to her earlier today, asking about getting a proper psychiatric diagnosis and mentioning the gender-nonconforming thing, but she's pretty much set down a wall: getting T makes her happy, so she's sure she's trans, end of discussion. My fear is that if I push the issue, she'll shut me out now, and I won't be able to help her if it falls apart later.

She did tell me that her GP suggested she might be trans. Do GPs generally provide diagnoses like that? 



Dink Smallwood said:


> put her out of her misery





Cricket said:


> Get a new friend





timecop said:


> stop making friends on deviantart



Never change, KF. <3


----------



## Zarkov (Dec 29, 2017)

Slowboat to China said:


> Furthermore, I may bear some responsibility for this. This is going to sound incredibly spergy, but I introduced her to anime back in high school. She latched onto the whole pretty-boy idea and I indulged it with the usual teen girl stupid text roleplay.


You absolute_ madman._


----------



## m0rnutz (Dec 29, 2017)

Your friend is a tard, and from the sounds of it still young. She's going through what I call Arthoe Syndrome, which is basically a girl that takes testosterone, cuts her hair short or does a jew perm, and has an obnoxious fetish for making everything GAY(tm).

As such, I don't see these kinds of people as trans, if anything the line between fiction and reality is blurred, and they begin to live their alternate online persona offline in person.

And more common than not, it's always the insecure ones who normally would have jumped a cliff in history.

So what can you do? Nothing. You can ask them questions on occasion, you can continue to be their friend, but you can't intervene in their choices right now. They have to learn from their mistakes, and learn to decide if what they are doing is the right thing to do. It's not up to you to be their guardian any longer.

If she goes down the rat king rabbit hole, though, just subtly and silently drop her. Don't say anything, just gradually slow communication to a halt until you are just passing acquaintances.


----------



## drtoboggan (Dec 29, 2017)

What @AnOminous said.


----------



## Yellow Yam Scam (Dec 29, 2017)

@AnOminous is right as usual.

The best thing to do is what you should_ always_ be doing with your friends and family, which is supporting and lifting them up. If they're going to troon, they're going to troon, but the best way to prevent it is probably to enrich their life as it is currently.


----------



## OhGoy (Dec 29, 2017)

Jewed Hunter said:


> I had this shit happen to me in highschool. I wish I knew more and was less of coward. Of course he was into nerd shit, and that's a staple of troonism. I'm not sure about reversal, but there are precautions you should take to encourage friends to not consider transitioning at all. Do L.A.D. (which I just invented):
> 
> ENCOURAGE *L*IFTING: lifting increases testosterone, fixes hormonal problems and makes you think clearer.
> 
> ...


This is more suitable to males, to be honest.


----------



## jewelry investor (Dec 29, 2017)

OhGoy said:


> This is more suitable to males, to be honest.


FtM is an entirely different set of psychological issues.
It's like trying to compare lesbians to gay men.


----------



## HQumn (Dec 29, 2017)

Lol it’s like all of you have never seen a normal non Lolcow transition.


----------



## jewelry investor (Dec 29, 2017)

HQumn said:


> Lol it’s like all of you have never seen a normal non Lolcow transition.


There's a difference between a tard cumable troon and a troon who may have some insignificant twitter account, considering suicide all the time.


----------



## The Fool (Dec 29, 2017)

You think you're guilty for showing them anime? You think fucking chink cartoons destroyed their psyche and judgement?

You didn't do anything, even without your help, they were an inherently broken person. They would have just as easily discovered Boku no Pico and found people to roleplay with without you.
I know, it's hard to deal with. You feel like you're losing your friend, you're experiencing stress and guilt. It's not even your guilt, you just don't know how to process this, your friend is destroying their identity, the very person you knew and loved, and you don't know who to blame and who to feel sorry for. I've been through the same thing, I've dealt with this too, which is why I sympathize with you. You gotta face the truth, this person is psychotic.
They can only be fixed if they realize they have a problem. They aren't going to. You need to cut your losses and begin the emotional journey of emotionally disassociating with this person. Keep them as a distant stranger. Otherwise they're going to take you down the tracks of the crazy train with them, cuz believe me this is going to get a whole lot worse.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Dec 30, 2017)

This could've been avoided by not having friends.


----------



## The Fool (Dec 30, 2017)

ICametoLurk said:


> This could've been avoided by not having friends.



This is totally why I don't have any


----------



## AnOminous (Dec 30, 2017)

HQumn said:


> Lol it’s like all of you have never seen a normal non Lolcow transition.



Not a single person in my entire life who transitioned did it in the trooning out way we see in these lolcow threads.


----------



## HQumn (Dec 30, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Not a single person in my entire life who transitioned did it in the trooning out way we see in these lolcow threads.


Nor did my friends. Before joining this site I didn’t know what many of the words you guys use meant, troon especially. Every time I see these fucken loser wannabe fattie mcpatties (fave Russ Greer insult) I want to punch them in their dumb fake tranny faces. First of all, calling yourself a tranny while wearing girl clothes and a wig doesn’t make you a tranny. Begging for people to refer to you as female while constantly talking about being trans doesn’t make you trans. In fact it does the fucken opposite. My trans friends don’t have a single trace of being trans left in their history because the whole fucking point of transitioning IS TO BE THE GENDER YOU CHANGE TO! Not to be a “tranny” you fucken attention seeking merkin wearing fags. 
Ok I’m done... sorry


----------



## Slowboat to China (Dec 30, 2017)

The Fool said:


> You think you're guilty for showing them anime? You think fucking chink cartoons destroyed their psyche and judgement?
> 
> You didn't do anything, even without your help, they were an inherently broken person. They would have just as easily discovered Boku no Pico and found people to roleplay with without you.



I know, it's an exceptional thing to think. She could've found that cancer on her own. But we were both at pretty vulnerable places--high school girls with mental issues, talk about a fucking minefield of shit that can go wrong--and I can't help wishing I'd steered her towards something else. Hindsight is 20/20, amirite?



WhatNemesisMeans said:


> You absolute_ madman._



Slowboat worse than Hitler confirmed. 



AnOminous said:


> Not a single person in my entire life who transitioned did it in the trooning out way we see in these lolcow threads.



Which is why I put "troon" in my thread header. Not to be a stereotypical shit, but I do know a couple of other transgender folks, and as a rule they just want to live as the sex they want to be. It's weird to me, but c'est la vie, live and let live, etc. With this friend, I'm worried because she shows all the signs of the transtrender/yaoi fixation type, and I'm concerned about her doing something she'll regret.

But OTOH, I can't run her life, and I can't know what's going on inside her head. So right now I'm just trying to be a good friend and let her know she can talk to me if she needs anything.


----------



## AnOminous (Dec 30, 2017)

HQumn said:


> Nor did my friends. Before joining this site I didn’t know what many of the words you guys use meant, troon especially.



"Troon" originated on Something Awful as a portmanteau of "trans" and "goon."  But because of the bizarre subculture there, it became associated with incredibly masculine men who claim to be trans despite not doing a single damn thing to look feminine, and it sort of moved here as a term, where it means that kind of bizarre creature.

I generally view a troon as someone who insults your intelligence by trying to force you to pretend they're what they're obviously not, and to put more effort into pretending that than they do.  This is why they can go fuck themselves.


----------



## AlephOne2Many (Dec 30, 2017)

Friends and family are not yours to throw away over a major change that friends and family are made to help you see through to a compromise. If you can't at least compromise, take a break and cool down for a while, don't put the burden of soiled sheets on someone you consider(ed) your best friend or are your close relatives. It leads to a toxic environment that becomes increasingly difficult to be around them.

In other words, if they stuck out their neck for you try to do your part back for them.


----------



## Wallace (Dec 30, 2017)

Your friend sounds like she has other problems besides being a genderhispter. I agree that this may be a maladaptive response to coping with trauma. Regrettably, you cannot save someone from themselves.


----------



## Some JERK (Dec 30, 2017)

People have to live their own lives. You can offer your opinion, which you've done. If you're truly friends then your words are bouncing around in her head somewhere. Beyond that there isn't much you can do. You're going through the same shit that all people do when they feel a good friend is going down a destructive road.

If she's not open to external input on it then continuing with unsolicited criticism is just going to push her away. If she was open to being talked out of it then you'd know, because she'd probably be asking for your opinion. The best thing you can do is be ready for that moment if it comes, but until then just listen.



Slowboat to China said:


> But OTOH, I can't run her life, and I can't know what's going on inside her head. So right now I'm just trying to be a good friend and let her know she can talk to me if she needs anything.


Sometimes the only thing you can do is hang back with the fire extinguisher.


----------



## The Fool (Dec 31, 2017)

NumberingYourState said:


> Friends and family are not yours to throw away over a major change that friends and family are made to help you see through to a compromise. If you can't at least compromise, take a break and cool down for a while, don't put the burden of soiled sheets on someone you consider(ed) your best friend or are your close relatives. It leads to a toxic environment that becomes increasingly difficult to be around them.
> 
> In other words, if they stuck out their neck for you try to do your part back for them.



This person is an emotional wreck that is going to drag down everyone in their lives with them. Slowboat needs to live for themselves and not ruin their livelihood over someone willingly and actively fucking themselves over. They didn't get a limb cut off, they're basically acting like a shameless drug addict.
Slowboat disassociating with this person will show them that you can't just fuck over associates for your own selfish delusions without driving people away, and if they don't see that, then they can go ahead and bask in their harmful delusions, alone.
Live for yourself Slowboat, don't throw your life away for people who only care about themselves.


----------



## QI 541 (Dec 31, 2017)

I have a friend who hates me now because I put him off transitioning forever by showing him Chris-chan


----------



## Yandere Science (Jan 3, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> Sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.
> 
> The TL;DR is that a dear friend of mine, a woman my age, is transitioning into a man. Unfortunately, she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," and if even a quarter of the life story she told me is true then her childhood was one long uninterrupted rape, I could believe it's a desire to escape from trauma--but I'm concerned about her future. She's already on testosterone, and if she doesn't have dysphoria now, she could well be heading towards it.
> 
> ...


Tell her to go to a mental health professional to get an actual diagnosis. Self-diagnosing mental health issues is stupid, beyond not being a professional and self-serving bias, if you have actual mental health issues then by definition your judgement can't be trusted to diagnose them.

Alternatively, rape her with your strap-on while dressed as a dude until she likes it. Show her how being fucked by a real man feels like, use your glorious dicking skills to make her feel like a woman. (Do not actually do this.)


----------



## Caesare (Jan 3, 2018)

HQumn said:


> Lol it’s like all of you have never seen a normal non Lolcow transition.



That's true, I haven't.


----------



## Lurk King (Jan 3, 2018)

There is nothing you could have done. With the internet being as ubiquitous as it is, they would have found this path in one way or another. 

There is nothing you can do. An unreasonable person cannot be reasoned with. The only thing you will succeed in doing by trying is to push them away.  Even by suggesting they seek outside help, they will only translate that as you disagreeing with their choice and trying to undermine it. 

All choice is out of your hands now. Attempt to be accepting of their choice and try to make friends with whatever kind of person they become.


----------



## Varg Did Nothing Wrong (Jan 3, 2018)

It's not too late to give her a present for Orthodox Christmas (or the Chinese New Year) that consists of a rope and a bar of soap.


----------



## AnOminous (Jan 3, 2018)

Coleman Francis said:


> That's true, I haven't.



Many people haven't.  They're rare.  I've encountered them, though.  Not one of them has a thread here or is connected to any Rat King I know of.


----------



## Caesare (Jan 3, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> Many people haven't.  They're rare.  I've encountered them, though.  Not one of them has a thread here or is connected to any Rat King I know of.



Oh I've encountered them my whole life. You see them out all the time in some of the seedier parts of town and sometimes you can't even tell until you really start to look close, but I've never known a friend or even an acquaintance who decided to become one.


----------



## Gym Leader Elesa (Jan 4, 2018)

HQumn said:


> Lol it’s like all of you have never seen a normal non Lolcow transition.



There's no such thing as a non-lolcow trans. Only ones with an offline presence.


----------



## Dilligaff (Jan 4, 2018)

Everyone else has given you great advice about trying to be supportive  as best you can but not letting your friend drag you into places you can't go (figuratively speaking) . I just want to reiterate that some people have to learn the hard way and there is nothing you can do to change it. You can only advise them.


----------



## Slowboat to China (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks again, everyone. I've been trying to hang back, be supportive of her happiness but not encouraging her to do anything drastic, etc. She's talking happily about getting a hysterectomy this year, and while I'm not one of those "If you get your uterus pulled out/don't have kids YOU'RE NOT A REAL WOMAN" types, the idea of getting major surgery so soon in the process makes me a little more worried. I've been (gently) pushing for professional diagnosis. Hopefully the surgery is just pie-in-the-sky talk.

Obviously, I can't run her life But it's nice to have you awful, trans-doxing, life-ruining shitlords to remind me of that. 



Yandere Science said:


> Tell her to go to a mental health professional to get an actual diagnosis. Self-diagnosing mental health issues is stupid, beyond not being a professional and self-serving bias, if you have actual mental health issues then by definition your judgement can't be trusted to diagnose them.



She says she's been diagnosed by her GP, which I'm skeptical of. Is that even a thing ordinary medical doctors do? I've been trying to read up on the procedures and standards of care, but I admit I get a little lost in all of it. Generally, with trans friends my response is "Okay, you're trans." This is the first time I've felt any worry about the transition, given my knowledge of my friend's previous life and behaviors.


----------



## Yandere Science (Jan 4, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> She says she's been diagnosed by her GP, which I'm skeptical of. Is that even a thing ordinary medical doctors do?


If by "GP" you mean "General Practitioner" then no, no they can't. You need a psychologist or psychiatrist to diagnose you, in order to rule out the issue being caused some other condition. What a GP could do is identify it as a possibility and recommend a specialist, like they do with any other medical condition requiring specialist care.


----------



## AnOminous (Jan 4, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> She says she's been diagnosed by her GP, which I'm skeptical of. Is that even a thing ordinary medical doctors do?



Generally, medical doctors can, but it's not best practice in the least.  Doctors can do what doctors can do.  Still, you're not going to get brain surgery from the dude you go to for your sniffles.  And doctors are not supposed to act outside of their field of competence.

Unless she's been actually referred to a specialist of some sort with experience in the field in question, this just sounds like bullshit to me, and like the GP simply didn't rule out gender dysphoria.

Nutjob troons, as we've seen on numerous threads here, usually take that as the doctor completely agreeing with them and giving them the diagnosis they wanted.  A smart doctor in this situation puts it down in their notes that they gave a non-committal answer to a potentially deranged patient.


----------



## Slowboat to China (Jan 4, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> Generally, medical doctors can, but it's not best practice in the least. Doctors can do what doctors can do. Still, you're not going to get brain surgery from the dude you go to for your sniffles. And doctors are not supposed to act outside of their field of competence.



She's referring to her PCP, which I understand as Primary Care Provider. And she's only been on T for a month and is already planning her hysterectomy. If this IS trooning out and not just a sudden case of 25+ years of gender dysphoria coming to a head at once, I'm afraid she's about to do something really drastic. 

Shit, this is all coming on a lot faster than I thought. Even Nady Stewart wasn't planning surgical intervention after only a month on testosterone.


----------



## Wallace (Jan 4, 2018)

Since the OP makes it sound like she has a lot of comorbidities, I would not trust a PCP to diagnose them with gender dysphoria, especially in light of the many identity issues she has. I'd agree and say it's a way of coping with trauma. This is something that happens fairly often; when people have feelings that they can't express, they release them in different ways. One way is by having a surrogate or alter ego express that feeling, and give some emotional distance.


----------



## Sure Thing Idiot (Jan 4, 2018)

I'm not a shrink but I think anyone who makes a rash, life-altering decision out of the clear blue sky with no prior indication of doing it probably isn't mentally or emotionally stable to be making that kind of decision. You don't owe a person like that anything but if you care you can confront it for what it might possibly be - craziness. Like people don't just hop out of their beds one morning before work and decide they're gonna get a tattoo. Yea that's a poor example but the sentiment remains, especially for something so small and at least reversible compared to something so hugely visible and dedicated, like changing your gender. A stable person I believe at least puts some thought into a life-altering decision, and then challenges it, questions the positive and negative, like getting a tattoo or quitting your job, before doing it.

At the end of the day you can't choose anything for anyone or even help them truly. You can speak out about the suddenness and challenge why this person feels doing this is beneficial, but you can't decide what they do. If you care about this person and consider them a friend I'd suggest speaking to them in a non-aggressive way, confront them with your perspective and suggest they engage in some type of legwork. Like if you're actually gonna be a man, or whatever, and this isn't suppressed crisis-related bullshit, have you educated yourself on the side effects of hormones and getting a hysterectomy or surgery. Have you thought about how your life with change beyond surface level - socially, hormonally, romantically, professionally, etc. Essentially you have no solution. In my opinion your friend sounds confused and a little manic, but again, I'm not a head doctor.


----------



## Good Father (Jan 5, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> She's referring to her PCP, which I understand as Primary Care Provider. And she's only been on T for a month and is already planning her hysterectomy. If this IS trooning out and not just a sudden case of 25+ years of gender dysphoria coming to a head at once, I'm afraid she's about to do something really drastic.
> 
> Shit, this is all coming on a lot faster than I thought. Even Nady Stewart wasn't planning surgical intervention after only a month on testosterone.


Shit sucks.  Just remember that you didn't make this happen, faggy Japanese cartoons were around for decades without the trannymania.  That's a new thing in the last year, a product of incessant advertisement of how _new _and _amazing_ and _progressive _these cutting-edge gender warriors are, coupled with trannie-cult love bombing and an environment that permits would-be trannies to coerce those around them into supporting them with accusations of transphobia.

Take a stand and lovingly, kindly, warn her as hard as you fucking can that the outcomes for trannies are bad and she has tremendous potential to live a happy life as a woman, even if it doesn't seem like it today.  Find some stories of women who transitioned and de-transitioned, how it fucked up their voice, how they suffered organ damage from the hormones, how their trans communities rejected them when they started doubting, and pass them on to her.  Point out that she's had real troubles in her life, real grief, and that changing genders might seem like it will fix everything but that it's a terrible idea to gamble with irreversible surgery.

Also, see if you can find out the names of whoever does the cutting and publicize them.  Fucking bonesaw profiteers.


----------



## Slowboat to China (Jan 5, 2018)

Sure Thing Idiot said:


> I'm not a shrink but I think anyone who makes a rash, life-altering decision out of the clear blue sky with no prior indication of doing it probably isn't mentally or emotionally stable to be making that kind of decision. You don't owe a person like that anything but if you care you can confront it for what it might possibly be - craziness. Like people don't just hop out of their beds one morning before work and decide they're gonna get a tattoo. Yea that's a poor example but the sentiment remains, especially for something so small and at least reversible compared to something so hugely visible and dedicated, like changing your gender. A stable person I believe at least puts some thought into a life-altering decision, and then challenges it, questions the positive and negative, like getting a tattoo or quitting your job, before doing it.



Well, she tells me it's been bubbling up underneath for a while. Apparently she had lesbian tendencies in high school (including a crush on yours truly. Awkward), so that may play into it. But OTOH, she recently acquired a transman boyfriend, so I can't help wonder ... 



Good Father said:


> Shit sucks. Just remember that you didn't make this happen, faggy Japanese cartoons were around for decades without the trannymania. That's a new thing in the last year, a product of incessant advertisement of how _new _and _amazing_ and _progressive _these cutting-edge gender warriors are, coupled with trannie-cult love bombing and an environment that permits would-be trannies to coerce those around them into supporting them with accusations of transphobia.
> 
> Take a stand and lovingly, kindly, warn her as hard as you fucking can that the outcomes for trannies are bad and she has tremendous potential to live a happy life as a woman, even if it doesn't seem like it today. Find some stories of women who transitioned and de-transitioned, how it fucked up their voice, how they suffered organ damage from the hormones, how their trans communities rejected them when they started doubting, and pass them on to her. Point out that she's had real troubles in her life, real grief, and that changing genders might seem like it will fix everything but that it's a terrible idea to gamble with irreversible surgery.
> 
> Also, see if you can find out the names of whoever does the cutting and publicize them. Fucking bonesaw profiteers.



I'm doing my best right now. It's a delicate business. But she knows I'm worried about her and want her to be safe, so at least there's no "fuck you transphobe" shutdown yet.


----------



## Medicated (Jan 6, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> so at least there's no "fuck you transphobe" shutdown yet.



Don't worry, it will come.  It's like watching a train crash at 10% speed playback.


----------



## Save Goober (Jan 6, 2018)

I'm going to agree with @The Fool on this. And I wonder why are you friends with this person? Do they really bring that many positive qualities to your life? They seem like a constant trainwreck. I know we're only seeing part of the story but there are so many red flags I find it hard to wrap my head around.
I have found in my life that it is very easy to friend emotionally needy people, if you choose. You can easily feel very close to them because they constantly tell you lots of very personal problems. Maybe they don't have any other friends and you feel bad for them. Nobody listens to them. People hurt them for no reason, and you want to comfort them. After awhile I realize the problems they cause aren't new, they aren't going through a rough patch, the problems are constant because THEY are the problem. And I never seem to enjoy myself around them, despite having some good moments here and there. When it's clear it's a constant trend I don't really want that persons negativity in my life any more.
That's my take. Maybe I'm not a good friend and run too fast from negativity. What does the rest of this persons life and relationships look like? Does it seem to be a constant dumpster fire? Are they quick to put people on the chopping block when they don't agree with them?
I'm making many assumptions and may not be a very good friend myself so take what you will, but that's my $.02


----------



## heathercho (Jan 8, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> Sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.
> 
> The TL;DR is that a dear friend of mine, a woman my age, is transitioning into a man. Unfortunately, she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," and if even a quarter of the life story she told me is true then her childhood was one long uninterrupted rape, I could believe it's a desire to escape from trauma--but I'm concerned about her future. She's already on testosterone, and if she doesn't have dysphoria now, she could well be heading towards it.
> 
> ...



1) 
Let her get her tubes tied. If she's that swayed by society's newest brainwashing whim, you don't want her to breed. I know she's your "friend" and all, but  she can be a friend that suffers the consequences of her mental instability.

2) 
Tell her to see a shrink first. Tell her she can't undo it, because you will forever refer to her as a man, if she transitions and even if she transitions back, she can never undo it. Also, she will never be a "yaoi boy" because she's not a boy and if a gay guy wanted to fuck a girl, they would. But they don't. They like penis.

I saw on a Japanese talk show once, when talking about Yaoi shit, that a lot of the women who are in to it, aren't attracted to gay men, but they want men who are "soft" ; enjoy displaying affection towards other men. It "means" they will also be a good father and kind to you.
Others were attracted to the idea of "weak" men (weak being visually affectionate towards the same sex), as a power thing and wanted to be the (female) dominant one in the relationship. 

But western society has dicked all that up with this trans shit, so "I like X" now always has to mean "I'm Trans".


----------



## DatBepisTho (Jan 26, 2018)

I get friends being cringy doofuses and wanting to moralfag over it, but I want to know-
Is this friend an emotional black hole that sucks the life out of you when you try to interact with them; you do carry out all the pleasantries of friendship while they're a moody little shit for no reason and bite your head off when you inevitably crush the eggshells you're treading on or express concerns?

-If not, you might be able to air your concerns like a normal person and not be reee'd at. If she/he still goes on with it I guess all you can do is keep in touch and hope for the best or cut them out of your life when they start tardraging about every little thing.


----------



## Black Waltz (Jan 31, 2018)

Seriously, there's nothing I can say that hasn't been said before. Just continue to be a supportive and caring friend to her, and if she cuts you out of her life anyway, well, you've done everything you could possibly do.


----------



## sperginity (Feb 10, 2018)

Ask her exactly what it is about her that makes her identify as a man, and then ask why women can't be/do/feel whatever the answer is. 

Also, get a copy of the book Fuck Feelings. You have to limit your responsibility for others in order to be happy and functional. It's not your problem when other people do stupid shot. It's sad, but you're never at fault.


----------



## Arse Biscuit (Feb 10, 2018)

Slowboat to China said:


> Sorry if this is in the wrong subforum, but I wasn't sure where else to put it.
> 
> The TL;DR is that a dear friend of mine, a woman my age, is transitioning into a man. Unfortunately, she has all the hallmarks of a transtrender a la Milo Stewart: yaoi boi fetishization, no stated dysphoria, no formal diagnosis, a prior record of adopting and dropping dramatic identities, etcetera. Given that the pair of us met in a "special school," and if even a quarter of the life story she told me is true then her childhood was one long uninterrupted rape, I could believe it's a desire to escape from trauma--but I'm concerned about her future. She's already on testosterone, and if she doesn't have dysphoria now, she could well be heading towards it.
> 
> ...



There's no helping the situation.  None whatsoever. Your friend has a head full of bad signal that will last for years, because she has painted herself into a corner and now cannot back off without admitting how silly she is being.  And the likelihood of her having the intestinal fortitude to do _that_ is somewhere between "zero" and "potato".  If she HAD that fortitude, she would have found an individual approach to her life, instead of buying into the tumblrverse.

So I'd advocate a hands-off policy, and just watch the whole burning mess careen down the staircase.


----------



## carltondanks (Feb 12, 2018)

best of luck i guess


----------



## DangerousGas (Feb 12, 2018)

Right. You're talking about GPs here, so I'm guessing that you/your friend are based in the UK or Ireland. In which case, no GP that wants to avoid being struck off is gonna go 'yup, you're trans, let's lose those internal organs now'. I've got a couple of friends who have transitioned over here, and it takes more time than this person believes. It also requires psychological assessments (multiple visits) as well as a surprisingly long regimen of therapy. 

Your friend sounds like she's either bullshitting or being fed misinformation by an unreliable source. Is her OH of the egghunting inclination, by any chance? Because that's the vibe I'm getting. 

No GP will just dish out a referral for a hysterectomy without viable medical justification either, so I'd be of a mind to just nod and smile and let her delusions roll on. If anything, I'm more concerned about the sudden availability of testosterone injections - wither they're not legit, of you've been unaware of this transition for a lot longer than you have been aware of it.

One of the criticisms people tend to have when it comes to transitioning on the NHS is how long it takes to do (ie years), so this high-speed 'give them the hormones and hand me my scalpel' approach sounds largely like fantasy to me.


----------



## gumboman (Feb 12, 2018)

I often see men who troon out do so because they have lost control over their life due to circumstances.
it fucks up their brain stew.

a friend when betrayed after 8 year relationship  thought he was gay , 1 year later , gets a new gf and tells me holy shit was he retarded that time.

help a friend in getting control over his life.

don't know about femtroons.


----------



## AfghanBlue (Mar 29, 2022)

@Slowboat to China 
So then, how did this end up playing  out?


----------



## Slowboat to China (Mar 30, 2022)

AfghanBlue said:


> @Slowboat to China
> So then, how did this end up playing  out?


She had a mastectomy, but not (to my knowledge) a hysterectomy. We still talk sometimes. I'm staying the course of "be a friendly voice of sanity/concern."


----------



## AfghanBlue (Mar 31, 2022)

Slowboat to China said:


> She had a mastectomy, but not (to my knowledge) a hysterectomy. We still talk sometimes. I'm staying the course of "be a friendly voice of sanity/concern."



That’s a shame, small mercies tho.
Maybe she’ll be alrigth, the tide is turning a bit now. She might make it out of it just missing some tit


----------

