# The Friendzone does it exist?



## Steve Mayers (Aug 28, 2018)

The term "friendzone" is where one party desires a romantic relationship that isn't reciprocated by the other party. However some say that it doesn't actually exist and is a term used by people who believe they are entitled to relationships. I'm wondering what fellow Kiwi's think of the "friendzone" and what it means or if it's even real in the first place.


----------



## Dick Dastardly Richard (Aug 28, 2018)

Not the friendzone if you want to have friends.


----------



## RG 448 (Aug 28, 2018)

Steve Mayers said:


> a term used by people who believe they are entitled to relationships.


That’s exactly what it is.  Be upfront with your intentions and move on if the other party isn’t interested.  Believe me, I’ve... well I’ve at least _heard _of rejection, and can imagine what it must feel like, but continuing to obsess or lament that rejection isn’t healthy.


----------



## Draza (Aug 28, 2018)

Yes it does exist and you can even see everywhere around you. You may even experience it yourself. In cases where a couple- dozens will orbit around around one girl hoping to form a romatic or sexual relationship. But are stonewalled with the girl denying them the oppurtunity.


----------



## RG 448 (Aug 28, 2018)

Ratko_falco said:


> Yes it does exist and you can even see everywhere around you. You may even experience it yourself. In cases where a couple- dozens will orbit around around one girl hoping to form a romatic or sexual relationship. But are stonewalled with the girl denying them the oppurtunity.


Yeah but that doesn’t make the friendzone real, it just makes beta cuck orbiters real.


----------



## Steve Mayers (Aug 28, 2018)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> Yeah but that doesn’t make the friendzone real, it just makes beta cuck orbiters real.


It's perfectly normal to be upset if someone doesn't reciprocate romantic feelings. However it seems the guys who screech and whine about the "friendzone" act like it's the worst thing to ever happen to them. They act like it's a character flaw in the person rejecting them instead of that person just not liking them sexually/romantically. Normal people accept it and move on.


----------



## BeanBidan (Aug 28, 2018)

I've been pretty bummed since I was kinda thrown to the curb but eh i use games to deal with it. Not as bummed since I've been playing Granblue Fantasy and actually have friends now via from the game.


----------



## Tales of Discord (Aug 28, 2018)

Okay, I'm going to go full :autism: trying to answer this one, but you asked, I merely deliver.
Oxford Dictionary defines friend zone as «a situation in which a friendship exists between two people, one of whom has an unreciprocated romantic or sexual interest in the other». So, if we go by this definition friend zone does indeed exist.


----------



## Eryngium (Aug 28, 2018)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> That’s exactly what it is.  Be upfront with your intentions and move on if the other party isn’t interested.  Believe me, I’ve... well I’ve at least _heard _of rejection, and can imagine what it must feel like, but continuing to obsess or lament that rejection isn’t healthy.


Exactly just ask them flat out and simply shrug it off if they say no, makes your balls bigger if you take a rejection well.


----------



## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Aug 28, 2018)

Yes.

It's usually a space inhabited by "male feminists"  for a while before they realize that being friends with a girl is no way to get pussy, and start to get all #metooesque grabby, instead of dropping the beta-orbiter shit and start being a real man.


----------



## Tales of Discord (Aug 28, 2018)

Btw, even though friend zone exists, one doesn't have to stick around. Literally the best thing to do whenever you face rejection is to just move on with your life. Nobody is entitled to a relationship with anyone, no matter how much of a *nice guy/girl* they think they are.


----------



## The Man From G.R.I.D.S. (Aug 28, 2018)

The friendzone is alt right incel rapist bullshit. Totally unrelated, but its transphobic when a cisgendered lesbian refuses to sleep with a lesbian transwoman.

Trannies arent just incels with minds as devious as their fetishes are deviant.


----------



## Steve Mayers (Aug 28, 2018)

Tales of Discord said:


> Btw, even though friend zone exists, one doesn't have to stick around. Literally the best thing to do whenever you face rejection is to just move on with your life. Nobody is entitled to a relationship with anyone, no matter how much of a *nice guy/girl* they think they are.


One thing I've noticed is so many of the "nice guys" who whine about the friendzone never even ask the girl out in the first place.


----------



## Red Hood (Aug 28, 2018)

Only as long as you leave your fedora on.


----------



## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Aug 28, 2018)

Tales of Discord said:


> Btw, even though friend zone exists, one doesn't have to stick around. Literally the best thing to do whenever you face rejection is to just move on with your life. Nobody is entitled to a relationship with anyone, no matter how much of a *nice guy/girl* they think they are.


Great advice that a large number of Hollywood should probably take to heart.


----------



## IV 445 (Aug 28, 2018)

I hope so. A place where everyone is friendly to you? Show me the way!


----------



## Bassomatic (Aug 28, 2018)

God invented booze and rom coms to take platonic friendships to hook ups you feel weird about and one party wants to keep going with.

Platonic friendships are very much a thing, sometimes even FWB can be friend zones.

I've been on both sides of it but it's not real if that makes sense.

you need to step back be happy you are a friend. friends are great. be it partner fwb or platonic friend no one should rub it in or tease you romantically/sexually. What we tend to see online is weak men trying to win a girl and being stone walled by the fact she's not even their friend let alone a possible partner. Like most things if you see it online it's an extreme of it.

The friend zone summed up most simply, is when one person is upset the other person has a right to boundaries and doesn't want to respect that  deflecting their poor behavior onto the person they have hope for.


----------



## ConcernedAnon (Aug 28, 2018)

tfw you held the door open and didn't even get a quicky for your efforts 







To be real for a sec though, the true answer to the friendzone is to approach new friendships or acquaintances with no expectations; and merely let them evolve as they will. I think this is likely the source of angst for many who consider themselves friendzoned; they approached the friendship with the expectation of a relationship.


----------



## QU 734 (Aug 28, 2018)

The friendzone is real and completely normal. If you're not re tar ded, its not even a big deal. 

The friendzone is only really a problem for shitty people who have to blame anyyhing but themselves for their unfuckability.


----------



## Nekromantik (Aug 28, 2018)

What about the girl/boyfriend zone. I just met you, and this is crazy, but lets fuck. Also I have this diagram detailing our future life together.


----------



## ZeCommissar (Aug 28, 2018)

If you are in the 8th grade and complain about the friend zone all i can say is good luck kid, a lot of us have been there.

If you are a grown ass man and still complain about the friendzone, then grow the fuck up and learn how to act near women you like.

If you want a romantic relationship with someone then go for it, dont sit there for weeks, months, *YEARS *hoping she will ask you out.

It does exist, and yes women can get friendzoned too. It is not something to whine about, however.


----------



## This+ (Aug 28, 2018)

Just ask the person out, if they give you the "let's just still be friends" just still be friends, no need to shun them forever from your existence, you know. Doing that lets that person know you're a stable adult who can actually deal with rejection and probably lead you to different relationships with their friends.


----------



## SiccDicc (Aug 28, 2018)

A lot of posts I agree with, but I'll put my two cents in...

Basically the Friend Zone does exist, but it's largely built upon the insecurities and apprehensiveness of the individual involved. They never take a chance, they miss opportunities no matter how blatant and in general tend to be afraid of losing what they already have. All of these are pretty normal as far as these things go, so long as they accept it and move on the best they can... sometimes even learning from it and getting fed up with their loser self as they begin to take initiative the next time. The problem is that the Friend Zone has become known as this master plan that women use to get free shit - and there absolutely are women and men like that, so it doesn't help the narrative - but those women/men are pretty few and even then you gotta learn to man up and fuck off with this bullshit. Stand up for yourself, get outta there, find you a decent woman/man.

I just dislike the idea that feminists and incels think it's an abusive term. It's really more something you can educate guys - or girls even - on how to avoid making the same mistakes and letting their intentions known, hopefully while keeping the friendship should the feelings not be returned. Instead for some reason they prefer to keep it a toxic term and that only makes it worse when people look it up to see why they aren't getting through to the girl/guy they like. Either with feminists keeping the kid a beta orbiter or the incels turning him into a weasel -- a vicious tiny predator that'll snap at a moment's notice.


----------



## Basketball Jones (Aug 28, 2018)

I always thought the term “friendzone” came about as sort of an all-too-relatable internet joke about being rejected. I’m pretty sure I heard it walking around in high school. I even used it around my girlfriends as something we shrugged and laughed at when we got rejected by our crushes. I know over the last few years it’s used in a more negative light by more socially exceptional people that treat it like it’s a physical plain where they are exiled away from all prospects of virginity loss...but I don’t recall it starting out that way. I could be super wrong though. 

Regardless. Here’s a cute short (and insightful ) video about le Friendzone


----------



## AbraCadaver (Aug 28, 2018)

The friendzone is where I put my friends. If you’re doing nice things for me because you think eventually those will add up to one free sex voucher, you’re not my fucking friend.


----------



## ArnoldPalmer (Aug 28, 2018)

Look. The friendzone exists. What really matters is how people react to it. The angrier and more entitled, the better.


----------



## gREEEEEEEEEr (Aug 29, 2018)

The friendzone is the result of men/boys

- feeling that all the pressure is on them to initiate a relationship (which is usually how it works)
- feeling shy and insecure (some are more naturally confident than others), and
- fearing failure (some men are risk-takers, while others like to play it safe)

The result is that some men are so intimidated by the pressure of beginning a relationship and the risk of a painful failure that they almost have to ease their way into it by getting to know a potential partner first in a platonic way. Their logic goes, if you can't be friends with someone platonically, then how could you consider them as a life partner? For these men, the idea of approaching someone that you don't know and randomly trying to strike up a romantic engagement with them is literally paralyzing. They're looking for more than just attraction at that physical level, because they're considering a long-term relationship. It takes a lot more investment for them to feel an attraction to someone that they wish to actually take a chance at pursuing.

Meanwhile, women typically have the luxury of sitting back and letting men approach them, and strangely enough, the above traits are not really ones that women, most women at least, find attractive in would-be suitors. Also, women's risk-aversion tends to work in the opposite direction: since so many of the men who they run into seem mainly just to be interested in sex, when they do find that they are good platonic friends with someone of the opposite sex, they don't want to risk ruining that friendship.

So the friendzone is basically a perfect storm where you've got a specific type of man who's interested in a specific type of woman, but his attraction develops as he puts quite a lot of time into getting to know them. Both of them may see the relationship as a potentially long-lasting friendship, but the guy feels like that long-lasting friendship is a solid foundation on which they could perhaps build a romantic relationship (which he hopes to last a long time, because the idea of it failing or having to start over is terrifying), while she feels that doing so would possibly ruin everything. As they spend more time together, his romantic attraction toward her increases, while at the same time hers decreases, and by the time the guy realizes that she's not willing to turn that corner, it's a crushing blow because it means that he has to start all over from square zero; he also might feel hurt because he probably assumed that she _must_ feel something similar toward him (which clearly wasn't true at all). And then the woman's impression is often going to be that his friendship wasn't genuine and all along he really just wanted to screw her (which also may not be true at all).

tl;dr: the friendzone happens when men are afraid of building romantic relationships on shaky footing of barely even knowing someone, and women are afraid of building them on solid friendships that may be ruined.


----------



## Vocaloid Ruby (Aug 29, 2018)

gREEEEEEEEEr said:


> The friendzone is the result of men/boys
> 
> - feeling that all the pressure is on them to initiate a relationship (which is usually how it works)
> - feeling shy and insecure (some are more naturally confident than others), and
> ...



What the fuck kind of word mess is this? Stuff like this where you box woman and men into doing the exact same thing and thinking the exact same way, is mind boggling.

Woman think X, Men think Y, is the reason your in the friend zone chump.


----------



## trashbat (Aug 30, 2018)

there are a lot of different situations that get lumped together as "friend zones," i think. @gREEEEEEEEEr is on point about a particular subset of people. the men he describes are wrong to treat the early stages of a relationship as a kind of project imo



Steve Mayers said:


> One thing I've noticed is so many of the "nice guys" who whine about the friendzone never even ask the girl out in the first place.



the friend zone can be real when the people involved are too confrontation-averse to make their feelings known. person A is too chickenshit to openly signal romantic intent, person B knows what's going on but is too uncomfortable to give a firm "no." it's a shitty experience for both parties because both parties are kind of shitty


----------



## Steve Mayers (Aug 30, 2018)

trashbat said:


> there are a lot of different situations that get lumped together as "friend zones," i think. @gREEEEEEEEEr is on point about a particular subset of people. the men he describes are wrong to treat the early stages of a relationship as a kind of project imo
> 
> 
> 
> the friend zone can be real when the people involved are too confrontation-averse to make their feelings known. person A is too chickenshit to openly signal romantic intent, person B knows what's going on but is too uncomfortable to give a firm "no." it's a shitty experience for both parties because both parties are kind of shitty


Usually person b is too uncomfortable to give a "no" because person a is the type of person who has a meltdown when rejected.


----------



## trashbat (Aug 30, 2018)

Steve Mayers said:


> Usually person b is too uncomfortable to give a "no" because person a is the type of person who has a meltdown when rejected.



i don't think that's true. it's a pretty straightforward desire to avoid hurting another person's feelings


----------



## Bassomatic (Aug 30, 2018)

trashbat said:


> i don't think that's true. it's a pretty straightforward desire to avoid hurting another person's feelings


Sometimes you have to, and a lot of people aren't brave enough to do it, or aware you can do it with love and tactfully. Often these hand held gut checks are wonderful life changing events but they hurt like no other.

While I won't ramble on too long about how honesty effects this and so many other subjects in day to day life, it's part of it. We are so scared to hurt people, even for the right reasons we don't and let some toxins eat away at wonderful things like friendships.

If people keep being such pussies we are gonna move this to the medical community, and to make that analogy, picture this, your doc says... chemo sucks but you should have it, but let's got watch that new Marvel movie instead?


----------



## White bubblegum (Aug 30, 2018)

If you're too pussy to confess your feelings to your friend, that's not friendzone. That's called being nonconfrontational.
  If you confess your feelings to your friend and they reject you by saying something like "i only like you as a friend" or "im not ready for a relationship", it can be friendzone depending on how you react to it.
  If you just walk away and stop being friends with them because they rejected you, that shows you never really felt friendship for them, only lust. So no friendzone.
But if you keep being friends with them, albeit with disappointment, because you value the friendship you have together, then that's friendzone. You'll always want to be something more, but you're just happy to have the privilege of being friends with that one person.

   But that's just me. Clearly, the issue of friendzone is a nuanced one.


----------



## wellthathappened (Aug 30, 2018)

Sometimes people of the opposite gender want to be friends rather than fucking. If the situation is too awkward for you to bring romance into a friendship perhaps doing it isn't some "friend zone" thing so much as a bad choice.


----------



## Ido (Aug 31, 2018)

Just saying, if you don't really know a girl, ask her our randomly, and she says either "let's just be friends first" or "You seem nice but..." then she isn't interested in you at all and is only saying it to get you to leave her alone. It's an attempt to let them down gently, but doesn't really go as planned in most cases.

If you go up to a friend you know really well and she says it would be AWK then sure, it sucks but just deal with it, plenty other people out there.

Either way, it's way too over blown and the only people who care about it are people who are just looking for pussy. Girls can smell that shit from a mile away and will turn you down.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Aug 31, 2018)

No.  

Healthy well-adjusted adults call it rejection.  The friend zone is an imaginary status which Nice Guys say they occupy because they think it elevates them just above the other men a woman isn't interested in.


----------



## Monika H. (Sep 5, 2018)

Honestly?
I don't believe in friendzone crap.
As OP said, it's a term used by people who feel entitled to relationships.
I do believe in unrequited feelings and misunderstandings, as any sufficiently mature person does.


----------



## Commander Keen (Sep 5, 2018)

The friend zone exists, but not in the way people talk about it. I’ve been friend zoned by tons of women, but...we still fucked. 

Women and men fuck their friends all the time. Pretty much constantly. If you’re into a girl and she says “I just think of you as a friend” but she still turns you down when you’re both drunk and you ask her to trade oral sex...she doesn’t really like you. Same thing with women, if you’re into a dude and he friend zoned you and also turns you down when you offer to slob his knob then he doesn’t really like you. 

It’s either that or you’re ugly/fat/small dicked/smell weird.


----------



## HazamA (Sep 5, 2018)

Crybabieszone exist.. yes? yes!


----------



## 4000saladplates (Oct 2, 2018)

The friend-zone is for nice guys/incels who think that if you're nice to a girl for 6 months she'll date you and if she doesn't she's a friend zoning bitch. Most normal adults just accept that when someone says "let's just be friends" it's a nice way of saying no. 
Side note: if you want to date someone, don't try to be their friend first, just be up front with your intentions. Otherwise, it can come off like you only wanted sex and were never really friends.


----------



## Khayyam (Oct 2, 2018)

I think it exists.

I've got a freind who I do get along very well with, who has attempted more than once on nights out to make a pass but who I'm just not interested in that way to put it without going into detail. There are deal breakers and there's just not finding someone attractive in that way. You can admire someone or like them without wanting to bang them being in the equation, and in some cases that's just what it is. 

Would everyone be happy to be in the freindzone? I can't comment on that, but I can confirm it does exist. I use it.


----------



## 2al (Dec 2, 2018)

Bump because I don't know where else to dump this question. Also, trust me, I am not asking for dating advice and I'm not talking about myself. I'm just confused because somebody in some social circle I'm in called out someone else for asking random women if they're single as a way to find dates. Of course that's not effective, but the way he was called out on it was so blunt that I feel strangely affected despite not being able to relate at all and the advice-giving party just trying to be helpful in a blunt manner. Something about him not respecting women and thinking men and women can't be friends and how women are still people and how you've got to know a woman first and with lots of all caps to boot. TBH, I felt that the woman who said that was putting words in the guy's mouth. But uh, if you were to befriend a woman for the sake of dating her later, that would feel sleazy too, right? Haven't nice guys been called out over here for doing such things, only to be friendzoned because of not acting like anything other than a friend and somehow getting all mad and surprised despite never giving proof of wanting to be more than a friend? Uh, don't you suppose he'd be better off in somewhere where a significant amount of people is looking for the same thing, like a dating site or a singles club?


----------



## Ido (Dec 2, 2018)

2al said:


> Bump because I don't know where else to dump this question. Also, trust me, I am not asking for dating advice and I'm not talking about myself. I'm just confused because somebody in some social circle I'm in called out someone else for asking random women if they're single as a way to find dates. Of course that's not effective, but the way he was called out on it was so blunt that I feel strangely affected despite not being able to relate at all and the advice-giving party just trying to be helpful in a blunt manner. Something about him not respecting women and thinking men and women can't be friends and how women are still people and how you've got to know a woman first and with lots of all caps to boot. TBH, I felt that the woman who said that was putting words in the guy's mouth. But uh, if you were to befriend a woman for the sake of dating her later, that would feel sleazy too, right? Haven't nice guys been called out over here for doing such things, only to be friendzoned because of not acting like anything other than a friend and somehow getting all mad and surprised despite never giving proof of wanting to be more than a friend? Uh, don't you suppose he'd be better off in somewhere where a significant amount of people is looking for the same thing, like a dating site or a singles club?



If he's going around asking a bunch of different women if he's single then that's absolutely creep material, its shopping for a girlfriend and that's disrespectful af. Actions speak louder than words, and his say a lot without them being verbal so she isn't putting words in his mouth, she's just putting words to his actions. On the "men and women can't be friends" thing, they can but it's obvious when a guy comes along with no intentions of just being friends.  

Saying you only like someone as a friend usually means that you're just trying to let someone down easily, every girl I know uses it, I've used it, my guy friends have used, my gay friends have used it. Getting turned down sucks, people know it as they've been turned down as well, so they try to alleviate the turn down a little bit by saying "you're nice but unfortunately we can only be friends". Some times actual friends turn into a creep and I believe they get one solid "we're only friends" before they get the chopping block should they pursue it. Saying "I only got friendzoned because of not acting like anything other than a friend and somehow getting all mad and surprised despite never giving proof of wanting to be more than a friend? " is a huge cop out that usually isn't true. I've turned down massive creeps by telling them they seemed nice but I was in a relationship or whatever, just so they didn't get pissed off at me, just a lie to get them to leave me alone.

I doubt the kinds of people who can actually get dates in clubs irl are going to be the kind of people who have to resort to stalking all the women on facebook on the off chance someone says they're single and interested.

Either way if you don't get it I have bad news for you, Niceguy.


----------



## Crunchy Leaf (Dec 2, 2018)

2al said:


> Bump because I don't know where else to dump this question. Also, trust me, I am not asking for dating advice and I'm not talking about myself. I'm just confused because somebody in some social circle I'm in called out someone else for asking random women if they're single as a way to find dates. Of course that's not effective, but the way he was called out on it was so blunt that I feel strangely affected despite not being able to relate at all and the advice-giving party just trying to be helpful in a blunt manner. Something about him not respecting women and thinking men and women can't be friends and how women are still people and how you've got to know a woman first and with lots of all caps to boot. TBH, I felt that the woman who said that was putting words in the guy's mouth. But uh, if you were to befriend a woman for the sake of dating her later, that would feel sleazy too, right? Haven't nice guys been called out over here for doing such things, only to be friendzoned because of not acting like anything other than a friend and somehow getting all mad and surprised despite never giving proof of wanting to be more than a friend? Uh, don't you suppose he'd be better off in somewhere where a significant amount of people is looking for the same thing, like a dating site or a singles club?


there's probably more to this story than you're aware of
i don't think there's a problem with asking out random women as long as you don't have a meltdown if they say no


----------



## Fresh froosh (Dec 2, 2018)

Of course it's just another way of saying unrequited love/attraction, only that wording makes it sound nicer and people won't be mad if you mention it.


----------



## Guts Gets Some (Dec 2, 2018)

To me the Friend zone is not an absolute definable thing, but a more vague process that generally happens between men and women.

Simply put, if someone (generally the guy) waits too long to let someone they like know they like them like _that_ (even if it's mutual), chances are it'll never happen out of fear of what-ifs or it changing the dynamic.

That's been what I've always seen, anyway. As I said, it varies, but that's my gist of it.


----------



## Ido (Dec 2, 2018)

Guts Gets Some said:


> To me the Friend zone is not an absolute definable thing, but a more vague process that generally happens between men and women.
> 
> Simply put, if someone (generally the guy) waits too long to let someone they like know they like them like _that_ (even if it's mutual), chances are it'll never happen out of fear of what-ifs or it changing the dynamic.
> 
> That's been what I've always seen, anyway. As I said, it varies, but that's my gist of it.


This is very true, you have to make your intentions known. Way back when, at least up until early college everyone would to test the waters, so to speak. They'd never come right out with telling someone they liked them, I get that part is scary but I've never liked that part. Fess up and get it over with, I'll respect you a whole lot more and hopefully put those feelings to rest.


----------



## Crunchy Leaf (Dec 2, 2018)

I'm in the 'friendzone' with a girl--I asked her out, she said no, but I kept hanging out with her, and she kept letting me go a little further than 'just friends' (not sexually, but still more touching than would be normal), and sometimes she does it back, like the time she sat on my lap and told me she loved me. I know she does this because she likes the attention, and I don't say anything because subconsciously I'm still hoping she's into me. You could say she's manipulative, but I see it as my fault for allowing myself to be in the 'friendzone'. 

Anyway, I recently asked out another girl, she said no, so I'm going to stop asking her to hang out one-on-one with me, partly because I don't want her to think I'm trying to take her on a date, but also because I'm aware that's a way to breed resentment and feeling friendzoned.


----------



## Guts Gets Some (Dec 2, 2018)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> I'm in the 'friendzone' with a girl--I asked her out, she said no, but I kept hanging out with her, and she kept letting me go a little further than 'just friends' (not sexually, but still more touching than would be normal), and sometimes she does it back, like the time she sat on my lap and told me she loved me. I know she does this because she likes the attention, and I don't say anything because subconsciously I'm still hoping she's into me. You could say she's manipulative, but I see it as my fault for allowing myself to be in the 'friendzone'.
> 
> Anyway, I recently asked out another girl, she said no, so I'm going to stop asking her to hang out one-on-one with me, partly because I don't want her to think I'm trying to take her on a date, but also because I'm aware that's a way to breed resentment and feeling friendzoned.



I would never stay around someone who is doing anything because they "like the attention."
I don't think what you're hoping to happen is ever going to happen with someone like her, buddy. At best, more of the same (friendship with very casual perks) and at worse, you're just going to become her bottom bitch.


----------



## Crunchy Leaf (Dec 2, 2018)

Guts Gets Some said:


> I would never stay around someone who is doing anything because they "like the attention."
> I don't think what you're hoping to happen is ever going to happen with someone like her, buddy. At best, more of the same (friendship with very casual perks) and at worse, you're just going to become her bottom bitch.


yeah i've mostly stopped hanging out with her but sometimes I do because well, nobody else will let me hold their hand, but I realize it's bad
she's taking a class at my school this semester and earlier in the year she saw me and I felt obligated to go have lunch with her and since then I've deliberately walked a different way because I know interacting with her is bad for me


----------



## AF 802 (Dec 2, 2018)

Unironically saying you're being friendzoned makes you an incel. Seriously, I think you're just a sweating retard autist if you claim that all the time, or just plain fuck-ugly. Just admit your lack of self-confidence and stop trying to hide.


----------



## Guts Gets Some (Dec 2, 2018)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> yeah i've mostly stopped hanging out with her but sometimes I do because well, nobody else will let me hold their hand, but I realize it's bad
> she's taking a class at my school this semester and earlier in the year she saw me and I felt obligated to go have lunch with her and since then I've deliberately walked a different way because I know interacting with her is bad for me



Hmm, personally I would cut ties, but maybe she is an okay friend to you. Don't want to suggest you lose that if you feel so lonely.

But yeah, I would start seriously keeping an eye out anywhere you can for better women to actually be _interested_ in. It'll happen so long as you stop focusing solely on her. Sometimes very unexpectedly too. (Speaking from experience here).


----------



## Ido (Dec 2, 2018)

Crunchy Leaf said:


> I know she does this because she likes the attention, and I don't say anything because subconsciously I'm still hoping she's into me





Guts Gets Some said:


> I would never stay around someone who is doing anything because they "like the attention."
> I don't think what you're hoping to happen is ever going to happen with someone like her, buddy. At best, more of the same (friendship with very casual perks) and at worse, you're just going to become her bottom bitch.


Was just going to comment this

@Crunchy Leaf bail, like now. If you dont want to "breed resentment in the friendzone" the first step is to un-niceguy yourself by remembering the friendzone doesn't exist, she's just a manipulating bitch and you're the niceguy who looks at every little thing as a sign.



Crunchy Leaf said:


> yeah i've mostly stopped hanging out with her but sometimes I do because well, nobody else will let me hold their hand, but I realize it's bad
> she's taking a class at my school this semester and earlier in the year she saw me and I felt obligated to go have lunch with her and since then I've deliberately walked a different way because I know interacting with her is bad for me


If even seeing her has that effect on you you you're fucked.


----------



## Crunchy Leaf (Dec 2, 2018)

Ido said:


> Was just going to comment this
> 
> @Crunchy Leaf bail, like now. If you dont want to "breed resentment in the friendzone" the first step is to un-niceguy yourself by remembering the friendzone doesn't exist, she's just a manipulating bitch and you're the niceguy who looks at every little thing as a sign.
> 
> ...


you are absolutely correct

i guess with girl i recently asked out who said no, i thought she was into me because i leaned against her and she didn't move away, and i put my head on her shoulder and she put her head on me, but also there was alcohol involved and some people are touch-ier than others


----------



## Bum Driller (Dec 3, 2018)

It certainly exists. It's actually quite common to see amongst younger males(and sometimes, rarely by younger women) to get friendzoned by women(or man, in case of woman) they lust after, but have zero changes at scoring with. Older males of our species just wisen up to it at some point and don't fall for it anymore.


----------



## Van Darkholme (Dec 3, 2018)

I managed to avoid getting into the zone a bit over a week ago. Dating ended (due too me being to honest) after the third and it was all just a waste of time and money.
Glad I got out before wasting more of the two on her.

Shame, because I actually liked her.


----------



## 2al (Dec 3, 2018)

Woah, that was out of nervousness and not out of rationality. I was really bracing for him to get cancelled like on Twitter. Although when he got shouted at, I thought, "::, that's simplistic AF, he never said anything about not thinking of women as friends." BTW, it was said like that because it was in a situation where everyone is friends anyway. But yeah, maybe he shouldn't be doing that because these are tense times where everybody is scared of being raped.


----------



## Julias_Seizure (Apr 18, 2019)

I used to use the term but not in the way that its usually used now. I used it to describe overly sugar coated rejections where the guy gets rejected with "i think of you more as a friend" but its totally disingenuous and in reality hes in the creepy aquaintence zone but legitimately thinks theyre friends


----------



## Terrorist (Apr 19, 2019)

Yeah, but most of the people who complain about it online probably deserved to be there anyway.


----------



## John Titor (Apr 20, 2019)

It does exist but it's so overhyped.


----------



## FadeIntoBolivian (Apr 23, 2019)

I think the thought of it as an action that's somehow intentionally inflicted on innocent guys, sometimes girls, is the biggest issue with it's stereotypical negative usage.

You can only be as deep in the "friendzone" as you put yourself. I think this can take time for people to learn, but by your mid 20's you should be at or near the end of placing yourself in situations like this. ESPECIALLY if you've never had any kind of romantic or sexual involvement with the person. In that case it's more like by the time you're done high school. On two occasions in my life I got dumped by girls who then told me that they really didn't want to lose me as a friend and that I was a great guy, etcetc. Obviously since it was a one-sided decision to not be intimate anymore, there was no realistic way (for me, anyways) that being around them wouldn't be agonizing, but I tried to convince myself that I could shift my feelings for them over time to a more platonic place. Again, obviously this was a horrible idea and I spent more time with them after the breakup in the most pointless exercise in masochism I can think of, save for that it taught a valuable lesson:

I can have coffee with a friend one afternoon, we'll chat for a couple hours, part ways, and I'll go right back to my day and it won't bother me if I don't see or hear from them for another week. That's a friend. I can try to "be friends" with someone I have serious unrequited feelings for, meet for coffee, spend the whole time with them with my blood pressure up, and have it be extremely painful when they casually return to the rest of their day, and I'm left wishing we spent the whole day together, etcetc.

Now, in that case there's at least a plausible way you can delude yourself into thinking that because there was intimacy before, if you're somehow charming enough, they'll find themselves smitten all over again, or whatever, even though you're just wasting both of your time because you're not having a honest interaction.

If you're putting yourself through this and you've never so much as kissed, it's been like 10 months, etc, you're either 13 years old or a re-tard.


----------



## Slappy McGherkin (Apr 23, 2019)

For me, the "friendzone" has always been a place women try to put you when they want to end a sexual relationship. It always goes something like "But I still want to be friends!"

Uh-huh. That means we don't fuck anymore, right? And you want me to hang around so that you have a shoulder to cry on and give you asspats whenever your new slice of meat is "being mean to you" and you don't get your way and makes you cry and shit, right? 

No thanks, I don't want you drunk dialing me at midnight to whine about him. We can't be friends anymore. Lose my number.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Apr 23, 2019)

Slappy McGherkin said:


> For me, the "friendzone" has always been a place women try to put you when they want to end a sexual relationship. It always goes something like "But I still want to be friends!"
> 
> Uh-huh. That means we don't fuck anymore, right? And you want me to hang around so that you have a shoulder to cry on and give you asspats whenever your new slice of meat is "being mean to you" and you don't get your way and makes you cry and shit, right?
> 
> No thanks, I don't want you drunk dialing me at midnight to whine about him. We can't be friends anymore. Lose my number.


Taken straight from the Nice Guy's playbook


----------



## Slappy McGherkin (Apr 23, 2019)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> Taken straight from the Nice Guy's playbook



Only took ONCE to learn that the hard way, amazingly enough!  ??


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Apr 23, 2019)

Slappy McGherkin said:


> For me, the "friendzone" has always been a place women try to put you when they want to end a sexual relationship. It always goes something like "But I still want to be friends!"
> 
> Uh-huh. That means we don't fuck anymore, right? And you want me to hang around so that you have a shoulder to cry on and give you asspats whenever your new slice of meat is "being mean to you" and you don't get your way and makes you cry and shit, right?
> 
> No thanks, I don't want you drunk dialing me at midnight to whine about him. We can't be friends anymore. Lose my number.


If you feel that way you were never friends in the first place, just fuck buddies. 

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don’t make it sound like she’s a bitch for wanting to try to be your friend after the fuck buddy thing didn’t work out.


----------



## Shadfan666xxx000 (Apr 23, 2019)

The friendzone is where you end up if a girl wants your money but doesn't want to put out.


----------



## Recoil (Apr 23, 2019)

In some situations, the woman (or man) DOES know what the deal is and is using their 'friend' as a emotional battery of some sort. That's a real thing and I think it's what we really mean when we say friend zone. It's deeper than unrequited affection and some people actively friendzone others so as to have a ready supply of false emotional energy. I've witnessed women AND men doing it _consciously_ on multiple occasions.
The payoff for the desired person is not minor by any means. Ready and willing emotional support, snuggles and gifts, recommendations and assistance in school or work, help with moving, the list goes on. The desired person gets to feel good about themselves while treating the other like a tissue, balled up and discarded when their purpose has been served. Their payment? An empty implication of something that doesn't exist.
Again, both sexes engage in this shit, no matter what the meme says about yon soy boys.


----------



## Slappy McGherkin (Apr 23, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don’t make it sound like she’s a bitch for wanting to try to be your friend after the fuck buddy thing didn’t work out.



Didn't say she was a "bitch" per se, just that what it boils down to is you end up being an emotional condom for her without any benefit of the sexual relationship that you once had as very close, intimate friends. I do have friends that are women and the reason we remain friends is that neither of us has sexual desire for the other. Never really been into the "fuckbuddy" scenario because that's its own fallacy, from my experience. It starts off as "we can just fuck and have fun," but after awhile, one party or the other starts to get romantically attached, feelings develop and get expressed, and that changes the whole nature of things. Playing the age card here a bit, but in all my years, I've had the pleasure of maybe two women that wanted sex strictly for the sake of having sex, could walk away afterwards with a kiss and I'll see ya when I see ya. So, it's not impossible to have a fuckbuddy, but the odds are it usually ends up as the first scenario I described if you're fucking on a regular basis. 

The other reason the fuckbuddy scenario never really worked for me is that I WANT TO be close to or at least feel something romantic about my sexual partners. I think most "normal" people (if their is such a thing) do. It makes for a stronger sexual experience. Prostitutes/one night stands only satisfy the immediate physical need, not the emotional need. 

But eh, what the hell do I know.


----------



## VIVIIXI (Apr 23, 2019)

Meh, I've been chewing on this.



Recon said:


> In some situations, the woman (or man) DOES know what the deal is and is using their 'friend' as a emotional battery of some sort. That's a real thing and I think it's what we really mean when we say friend zone. It's deeper than unrequited affection and some people actively friendzone others so as to have a ready supply of false emotional energy. I've witnessed women AND men doing it _consciously_ on multiple occasions.
> The payoff for the desired person is not minor by any means. Ready and willing emotional support, snuggles and gifts, recommendations and assistance in school or work, help with moving, the list goes on. The desired person gets to feel good about themselves while treating the other like a tissue, balled up and discarded when their purpose has been served. Their payment? An empty implication of something that doesn't exist.
> Again, both sexes engage in this shit, no matter what the meme says about yon soy boys.



Seems to me part of the reason it's called the Friendzone is because it's actually a pretty large area of emotional car wrecks that covers a myriad of crappy flavors of one way love.

Sometimes it's used to laugh off the pain "hur dur, I got friendzoned. Look at me laughing at what a stupid asshole I am," and sometimes it's "you could have had this, but you chose otherwise" cause bitter/upset. 
When someone is intentionally stringing you along in order to get something out of you, I would call that being used. Calling it friendzoned is kind of trivializing something very repugnant.

I've had plain old unrequited love. 

I've been used as an emotional tampon (and one time source of rent money). 

Very shortly after that I was forced to be the Zoner. There is nothing as awkward as addressing that particular elephant in the room because there is no way to do it without feeling vain and presumptuous if they haven't openly stated their feelings or smacked you in the face with red flags. Believe it or not, sometimes the person you're in love with can be just as self-concious as you.

"What if I'm just misreading them and I'm about to make a complete dick of myself?"

So I can understand why some people just can't bring themselves to do it. But, I would be damned if I were to turn around and inflict that same misery on someone else right after getting hurt so badly, so I decided that sometimes the best thing to do is let yourself be an awkwardly presumptuous dick. Cruel to be kind, as it were. And yes, the idea of potentially losing a friend makes it harder to get it over with, and you have to respect their decision as to whether or not they can tolerate being around you anymore.

Sometimes I still miss him.

The Friendzone sucks, but like all emotional dramas and traumas only you can really get you out of it. Sometimes what can feel like the worst moments in life spring from nothing more than an awkward situation.


----------



## betterbullocks (Apr 23, 2019)

Work on having some irl friends before you take on the big leagues, champ


----------



## ZeCommissar (Apr 23, 2019)

Friendzone is just rejection plain and simple. They aren't putting you on the back burner (unless they are a manipulative bitch), they didn't lead you on, and they aren't lying to you.

Is it possible to be friends with someone that rejects you? Of course it is, I have been friends with ex's, people who have rejected me, and such.

If a woman/man romantically/sexually likes you they will accept going out with you if they can. They will not make excuses, including the "what if our friendship fails if our relationship fails?"

Do not wait for anyone to "change their mind" because that is desperate as fuck and even a autist could figure what you're doing. They won't, and if they do then I would be suspect as to why you weren't their first choice. They aren't the only person on the planet with their personality type. Go out there and find someone else. The "friendzone" only exists because dumbasses let themselves get there in the first place and they stay in it.

It's one thing to maybe hang out with someone for a bit (and I mean a bit) just to test their personality and then asking them out, but if you go into a friendship with "i'm going to act so cool and then she will totally fall for me" and then get mad when she rejects you then it's your own damn fault.  You shouldn't jump into friendships with ulterior motives anyway you asshole.

Make your attraction known from the start in a decent manner. "But now it feels awkward!" No you are making it that way. If they are making it that way then address it and compromise, and if you can't then the friendship wouldn't work out nevermind a romantic relationship. 

If you don't want to be friends with someone because they rejected you, then you weren't friends in the first place. The friendzone is just a light way to reject you, and if you can't be around someone because of your feelings then just don't be around them.

Yes it is entirely possible to like someone of the opposite sex as a friend and not feel any romantic attraction towards them. There are plenty of women I would fuck, but that doesn't mean I would even consider putting them into my romantic life. Same thing with friendship. They weren't leading you on, they actually thought of you as their friend

It boggles my mind that grown men (and women) have to be told this and they still don't get it.


----------



## Ali della Fenice (May 17, 2019)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> Taken straight from the Nice Guy's playbook



nice guys dont get to actuallty fuck their friends.


----------



## UE 558 (May 17, 2019)




----------



## Marissa Moira (May 17, 2019)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> The friendzone is where you end up if a girl wants your money but doesn't want to put out.


So Divorce is the ultimate form of Friendzoning?


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (May 17, 2019)

The friendzone exists.

What dumb fucking nice-guys conveniently forget is that it exists for everyone.  Now, if you wanted to get genuinely controversial about it, you could point out that women tend to handle friendzoning a LOT worse than men tend to, though if enough of these fedorajockey dipshits crop up they just might bring it all back into balance again.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (May 17, 2019)

Ali della Fenice said:


> nice guys dont get to actuallty fuck their friends.


That’s what body pillows are for


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 18, 2019)

I suddenly know what the friendzone is, precisely and completely.

The friendzone is an asymetrical relationship proposed by someone who wants to reject romantically, but not be rejected socially.


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 18, 2019)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> Taken straight from the Nice Guy's playbook


What he described is the opposite of either a nice guy or a Nice Guy tm handbook. It's brutal honesty with the situation. A Nice Guy tm is the reverse; accepting the friendzone and hoping or scheming to get more out of it anyways.


----------



## Alec Benson Leary (May 18, 2019)

I have friendzoned every single person on kiwi farms. 

Every single one.


----------



## *extremely mom voice* (May 19, 2019)

I knew a guy who quietly had a thing for another friend of mine. She wasn't interested at all, but they'd known each other for years. If you look at it one way, he was friendzoned hard bc she never reciprocated yet kept the friendship going.

_However,_ she has a lot of stylish and attractive female friends, and since he was part of her social circle, he got to know them. Because of the social connection, he had way more chances with hot women than he otherwise would have. He's gotten at least two different hookups (that I know of) and one relationship out of this arrangement. She doesn't really mind, because it means her friend stays around, but doesn't get too needy.


----------



## Russtard (May 19, 2019)

The friend zone exsists but it’s totally your fault for staying in it. To me, the friend zone is an incel invention to continuously bitch about women and keep themselves from bettering themselves. It’s exactly like telling themselves that no women will ever love them because they don’t have Chad chins so why even bother?

You have no responsibility to be friends with anyone. If you only want to fuck, that’s fine. But if she isn’t interested, it’s not healthy at all to stick around and torture yourself. She didn’t “do” anything to you except not want to fuck you—everyone has people they don’t want to fuck. Cut contact. Move on.


----------



## Fek (May 19, 2019)

Hoo boy, this shit. 

I think you're asking the wrong question entirely. You're already setting yourself up for failure even thinking like this.

Alright, let's just get to the root of the issue entirely:

_Dear younger fellas,_​​_Don't keep spending so much of your goddamn time around women if you aren't fucking them. Yeah even that one you think you're just bestest of friends with (you know damn well you just want to fuck her but can't/won't). _​​_Also, stop pissing yourself away worrying about the shit women say to you._​​_Take all that wasted energy and focus on your damn self. The more you become a healthy functional educated man with money in the bank, the less you'll act like a *boy* and get yourself stuck playing "the backup plan" to some woman who isn't yours._​​..and never waste another goddamn second on this ridiculous "friendzone" shit. All that ever means is that you're still somehow useful to her but not remotely desirable. Cut that shit out.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (May 19, 2019)

Are you literally fucking saying that men and women can’t be friends?


----------



## Fek (May 19, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> Are you literally fucking saying that men and women can’t be friends?



I don't know why you're asking me. You clearly read my post before responding..

..right?

To be frank: you should strongly consider knocking that fallacious shit off.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (May 19, 2019)

Okay, let me rephrase that then

If you think it's impossible to be friends with a woman you're a fucking retard autist


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (May 20, 2019)

You all are fucking retarded. "Friend zone" is a common term and I've heard it used by people of all circumstances, even the most alpha of Chads. 

Friend zone: You want to date someone but they don't, so they tell you they want to be friends.

Also, if a woman says she wants to just be friends, they probably don't actually want to be friends earlier.


----------



## SpergPatrol (May 20, 2019)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> You all are fucking exceptional. "Friend zone" is a common term and I've heard it used by people of all circumstances, even the most alpha of Chads.
> 
> Friend zone: You want to date someone but they don't, so they tell you they want to be friends.
> 
> Also, if a woman says she wants to just be friends, they probably don't actually want to be friends earlier.


Found the incel


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (May 20, 2019)

SpergPatrol said:


> Found the incel



I'm just reporting what I've seen. I was at a wedding once (guy was getting married shortly after his college graduation), physically fit, going into the military as an officer, pretty girlfriend, student athlete, student government, etc. All of his equally-successful friends were making jokes about him having been in the "friend zone."

Have heard numerous other social, fit people use it too.

If you never leave the house and spend all your time on the Internet, you might think it's just a term for "nice guys." Those of us who live in the real world have a bit more nuanced take on it.


----------



## Guts Gets Some (May 20, 2019)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> I'm just reporting what I've seen. I was at a wedding once (guy was getting married shortly after his college graduation), physically fit, going into the military as an officer, pretty girlfriend, student athlete, student government, etc. All of his equally-successful friends were making jokes about him having been in the "friend zone."
> 
> Have heard numerous other social, fit people use it too.
> 
> If you never leave the house and spend all your time on the Internet, you might think it's just a term for "nice guys." Those of us who live in the real world have a bit more nuanced take on it.



I've been waiting for another @Tfw_sid to join.


----------



## Grotesque Bushes (May 20, 2019)

Russtard said:


> The friend zone exsists but it’s totally your fault for staying in it. To me, the friend zone is an incel invention to continuously bitch about women and keep themselves from bettering themselves. It’s exactly like telling themselves that no women will ever love them because they don’t have Chad chins so why even bother?
> 
> You have no responsibility to be friends with anyone. If you only want to fuck, that’s fine. But if she isn’t interested, it’s not healthy at all to stick around and torture yourself. She didn’t “do” anything to you except not want to fuck you—everyone has people they don’t want to fuck. Cut contact. Move on.


This nigga is *correct.*

I was put into the friendzone once, and that was the exact term used by the woman in question. She liked spending time with me, but wouldn't get to know me biblically for her own reasons. Solution? Go out with a different woman once or thrice, don't be a lapdog. Either she'll come back to you herself, or she won't, but there's no point to wasting your time on such shit.


----------



## Fek (May 20, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> Okay, let me rephrase that then
> 
> If you think it's impossible to be friends with a woman you're a fucking exceptional individual autist








You should be a magician for how easily you pull shit out of thin air. 

This bullshit seems habitual from you, too. No one enjoys humoring strawman after strawman.

This part here:



Fek said:


> _Don't keep spending so much of your goddamn time around women if you aren't fucking them. Yeah even that one you think you're just bestest of friends with (you know damn well you just want to fuck her but can't/won't)._



Does not once mention _either_ of the things you seem to read from it. If you require clarification/affirmation from both sides of a statement in order to not read so far into something you end up bent over with your head lodged up your ass, then you probably shouldn't internet. 

I'm not about to clarify my statement with faggoty shit like "b-b-b-b-but that doesn't mean you should _never_ be friends with women! I have plenty of female friends myself! See I'm not a bad guy!" because it's unnecessary basic bitch behavior.

I want to humor everyone's posts on this site and I fully expect many of those posts to not be gems of wisdom (mine included). That being said - for the love of kiwifarms (or failing that: _yourself_), try to work on how quickly you jump to conclusions.

This finishes my hand in derailing shit any further by humoring you. If you really want to continue, PM away.


----------



## Nadeko (May 20, 2019)

Fek said:


> Hoo boy, this shit.
> 
> I think you're asking the wrong question entirely. You're already setting yourself up for failure even thinking like this.
> 
> ...


I think I kind of understand what you mean? Like implying there is a friendzone then it means that you're automatically just being used, if I'm understanding right. Which is true, if you say you're in the "friendzone", you probably don't mean that you're friends but that whoever is using you and there's no mutual feelings, even friendly ones. But if people simply didn't focus on things like that and worked on themselves, the friendzone wouldn't exist, and you could find a woman who cares about them. 

Sorry if I'm reading too deeply btw


----------



## edibleBulimia (May 20, 2019)

It doesn’t exist. You need to make your intentions clear from the start or, if you develop these feelings when you’re already friends with the person, you gotta tell them somehow. 
If you treat me like a friend, I’ll obviously think we’re friends. Confess your feelings, ask them out, I dunno. If you get rejected, shrug it off, it may even deepen your friendship with that person. 
Most of the times friendzone is a term used by people who feel entitled to a relationship just because they’re friendly with someone.


----------



## Medicated (May 20, 2019)

Russtard said:


> The friend zone exsists but it’s totally your fault for staying in it. To me, the friend zone is an incel invention to continuously bitch about women and keep themselves from bettering themselves. It’s exactly like telling themselves that no women will ever love them because they don’t have Chad chins so why even bother?
> 
> You have no responsibility to be friends with anyone. If you only want to fuck, that’s fine. But if she isn’t interested, it’s not healthy at all to stick around and torture yourself. She didn’t “do” anything to you except not want to fuck you—everyone has people they don’t want to fuck. Cut contact. Move on.



I agree with this.  The friendzone is something that you say you are in when the only motivation you tried to get close to someone, is sex.  By saying you've been friendzoned, you make your intentions clear that you never intended to be friends and are only sticking around at some chance to get some.  But that would require that you be honest with yourself, and I doubt these people are.


----------



## Info Neutral Agency (May 21, 2019)

A concept created by men who have the prince syndrome thinking that they are the almighty of people even though they are horribe assholes that the person they are talking (for example) wants to bash their head into the curve.


----------



## Smaug's Smokey Hole (May 21, 2019)

Everyone here has friends and I assume everyone has many friends or coworkers they don't think of sexually, don't want to sleep with or want to be in a relationship with because it would be weird, they are your friend. Congratulations, you have created a friend zone, it is perfectly natural and rational and I don't see why it is controversial. This is not Dragon Age where every party member can be romanced if the player puts in enough time in the dialogue tree.

If your response is "I would absolutely fuck/date anyone of my friends if they just let me but they don't", congratulations, you're likely to complain about the friend zone while failing to understand basic human relationships.

So it absolutely exists but complaining about it is something incels do and that includes women of that variety as well.


----------

