# Cam girls are choosing sex streaming as a long-term career path



## CatParty (Jun 8, 2015)

http://mashable.com/2015/06/07/cam-girl-career



> Camming is quickly becoming a a lucrative and relatively stable job option





> the entire cam girl industry is currently valued at more than $1 billion





> “In this technological age, human beings are starving for authentic connections, and that is the great paradox about camming,” observes Phillips of sexyjobs.com. “Even though it is made possible by technology, it also solves the loneliness that has been created by it.”


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## Blueberry (Jun 8, 2015)

It is nice to know that there is a billion dollar industry out there completely funded by millions of desperate men feverishly fapping to lazy cam whores. God bless America.


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## YI 457 (Jun 8, 2015)

> “In this *technological age*, human beings are starving for *authentic connections*, and that is the great paradox about camming,” observes Phillips of sexyjobs.com. “Even though it is made possible by technology, it also solves the loneliness that has been created by it.”



This article looks like it has been written in 2002.


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## AnOminous (Jun 8, 2015)

Abilene said:


> This article looks like it has been written in 2002.



It does read like that kind of article written back then where dumb dead tree media guys wrote a bunch of ", there's this thing called the Internet" back in the 90s.

It makes a lot of sense for camwhores to make a career of it instead of becoming actual whores.  There's a lot more potential for money but more importantly, like phone sex, it's safe money without dealing with degenerate, diseased, desperate Johns in person.  Not to mention serial killers and the like.


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## Red (Jun 8, 2015)

It doesn't seem that much different than people who choose to be strippers or poledancers. Lonely men will give them lots of money. A good club stripper can make a very very nice living if she so chooses. 

So long as these are adults who are choosing this path, I don't care. The viewers will be happy and the girls will make their money.


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## KatsuKitty (Jun 8, 2015)

Sounds like a win-win to me. Hell, I'd shake my arse on camera if losers would pay me money for it and get absolutely nothing left in return.


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## Le Bateleur (Jun 8, 2015)

KatsuKitty said:


> Sounds like a win-win to me. Hell, I'd shake my arse on camera if losers would pay me money for it and get absolutely nothing left in return.


Make a Patreon


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## Bronchitis that Lingers (Jun 8, 2015)

While I can't find it in myself to say this is wrong, it still saddens me that a lot of potentially successful and intelligent young women are getting roped into this because they have no prior job experience or solid education. Once they get a taste of that money, it'll be hard to leave it behind and work minimum wage, causing them to fall right back into it.


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## Sweet and Savoury (Jun 9, 2015)

Can't be lifelong..after 30 women don't hold up so well.

Whats it called...hitting the wall?

sucks for them


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## Ariel (Jun 9, 2015)

I had a friend who was a stripper. She made amazing money, but ended up spending it all on shoes and cocaine. A lot of people seem to think they will be able to do it for a few years, buy a house in cash & quit. I don't think it happens often IRL. I'm guessing camgirls have the same problem....



Sweet and Savoury said:


> Can't be lifelong..after 30 women don't hold up so well.
> 
> Whats it called...hitting the wall?
> 
> sucks for them



& men hold up so much better!


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## Flowers For Sonichu (Jun 9, 2015)

You don't even need to get naked to make a shitload of money


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## AnOminous (Jun 9, 2015)

chimpchan said:


> I had a friend who was a stripper. She made amazing money, but ended up spending it all on shoes and cocaine. A lot of people seem to think they will be able to do it for a few years, buy a house in cash & quit. I don't think it happens often IRL. I'm guessing camgirls have the same problem....



The problem is that kind of thing is actually pretty stressful.  People doing it are at higher risk for drug abuse, which they start to cope with their work.  Then it eventually becomes an expense they need to keep working to pay for.  Like the guy who takes speed to work more, so that he can afford to buy more speed.

But all that is compounded when people go into actual sex work and have to deal with actual dangerous clients and pimps and outright criminal activity.  The "easy" money is still there as a temptation, but there isn't a guy with a knife.


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## YI 457 (Jun 9, 2015)

chimpchan said:


> I had a friend who was a stripper. She made amazing money, but ended up spending it all on shoes and cocaine. [...] I'm guessing camgirls have the same problem....



And escorts, and porn actresses, and so on. Their lives usually are a funny, variant and dysfunctional clusterfuck. Easy money for unstable people.


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## DuskEngine (Jun 9, 2015)

Sweet and Savoury said:


> Can't be lifelong..after 30 women don't hold up so well.
> 
> Whats it called...hitting the wall?
> 
> sucks for them



Eh. Same thing happens to athletes and models and shit.



AnOminous said:


> The problem is that kind of thing is actually pretty stressful. People doing it are at higher risk for drug abuse, which they start to cope with their work. Then it eventually becomes an expense they need to keep working to pay for. Like the guy who takes speed to work more, so that he can afford to buy more speed.



I want to say that camwhoring sounds like a pretty low-stress occupation, but spending your entire career dealing with internet drama will probably knock a few years out of you.


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## Blueberry (Jun 9, 2015)

I would do it quite honestly


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## Dudeofteenage (Jun 9, 2015)

Abilene said:


> And escorts, and porn actresses, and so on. Their lives usually are a funny, variant and dysfunctional clusterfuck. Easy money for unstable people.



I think it's a bit unfair to assume cam models are unstable.


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## BentDuck (Jun 9, 2015)

CatParty said:


> http://mashable.com/2015/06/07/cam-girl-career


Good for them I guess. I think it's a better option than stripping and trying to break into the porn industry, but I wonder how long of a career you can have as a camwoman? Just like any shorter term careers (like professional sports), as long as you're smart with you money, you should be pretty set. I heard of these girls making about $50-100k a year doing this, and I'm sure there are some "big-time" cam girls who make even more than that.


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## Red_Rager (Jun 9, 2015)

Bronchitis that Lingers said:


> While I can't find it in myself to say this is wrong, it still saddens me that a lot of potentially successful and intelligent young women are getting roped into this because they have no prior job experience or solid education. Once they get a taste of that money, it'll be hard to leave it behind and work minimum wage, causing them to fall right back into it.


I can imagine it would be hard for them to change career paths when employers decide to do background checks and ask questions about what your prior occupation was. 

As long as the lady is at the age of consent, of sound mind, and doing this of her own free will then fine. Her body her choice.


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## Dudeofteenage (Jun 10, 2015)

Red_Rager said:


> I can imagine it would be hard for them to change career paths when employers decide to do background checks and ask questions about what your prior occupation was.



All of the Camgirls I know do it under assumed names, so it's not that likely to come up on a background check.  You'd need some kind of story for what you were doing during that time, but given how cruddy the economy is just saying you were out of work for your camgirl-ing years would probably fly.


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## Save Goober (Jun 11, 2015)

This kinda sucks. As others have mentioned once you are 35+ (being generous) there's not much you can do. I guess there's a small market for older women/MILFs but you gotta age kind of well and if all these young cam girls are going to be aging into it and competing I don't see that working out very well.
I have thought in the past that if you were a well paid stripper/cam girl and smart enough to save your money you could probably retire at 35 and not be bad off at all. The problem is most of these girls don't seem to be doing that.
This idea gets bandied around in /cgl/ a lot, along with selling panties and other low bar to entry prostitution-lite type schemes. Some people say it doesn't make much money, or you have to work hard to build up an audience. The other problem is I've actually seen a lot of people get doxxed. People who think they're anonymous are delusional, I've seen it so many times. In one case a girl wasn't even a cam girl or doing anything online, but she was a stripper in another town, and privately bragged about it to friends, and /cgl/got ahold of it and doxxed her and she started crying on tumblr about how her parents were going to be disappointed. Making it into a career just seems really really dumb, unless you are really earning a lot and have a retirement plan that takes into account an early retirement, then seriously, good for you.


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## Red_Rager (Jun 11, 2015)

meltychocolate said:


> This kinda sucks. As others have mentioned once you are 35+ (being generous) there's not much you can do. I guess there's a small market for older women/MILFs but you gotta age kind of well and if all these young cam girls are going to be aging into it and competing I don't see that working out very well.
> I have thought in the past that if you were a well paid stripper/cam girl and smart enough to save your money you could probably retire at 35 and not be bad off at all. The problem is most of these girls don't seem to be doing that.
> This idea gets bandied around in /cgl/ a lot, along with selling panties and other low bar to entry prostitution-lite type schemes. Some people say it doesn't make much money, or you have to work hard to build up an audience. The other problem is I've actually seen a lot of people get doxxed. People who think they're anonymous are delusional, I've seen it so many times. In one case a girl wasn't even a cam girl or doing anything online, but she was a stripper in another town, and privately bragged about it to friends, and /cgl/got ahold of it and doxxed her and she started crying on tumblr about how her parents were going to be disappointed. Making it into a career just seems really really dumb, unless you are really earning a lot and have a retirement plan that takes into account an early retirement, then seriously, good for you.


If you are savvy enough, you could go into the porn field. The porn industry is surprisingly high tech and progressive.  
http://www.enterprisefeatures.com/ten-indispensable-technologies-built-by-the-pornography-industry/
http://www.ibtimes.com/women-porn-t...ir-careers-more-progressive-hollywood-1793950
You could also get into animating porn too

The trick is that you need to be pretty damn savvy how you play your cards in this. Doing this might be good to show on a resume if you are going into the porn field to show initiative. It is also a good idea to develop skills outside of fashion to fall back on and still be relevant to the field.


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## DiamondInTheRough (Jun 12, 2015)

If you're an attractive girl in your late teens to your mid-late 20's, it's pretty hard to pass something like this up if you're looking for cash. It's porn/prostitution/stripping without getting your hands dirty and with the added convenience of doing everything from home. There's a pretty pervasive stereotype of these girls being lazy, stupid, and degenerate but it doesn't really hold up if you talk to one of them. The most successful ones tend to be pretty intelligent considering the fact that they need to find the best ways of squeezing money out of the most guys possible, which can be a bit harder than simply "shake your ass on camera"(though that's usually a winning strategy).

I have some experience as a male cammer, and it really is a rush if you're narcisstic and validation-seeking enough. And the extra cash is a plus, though I make nowhere near the amount that the top female streamers do. I rarely show my face on camera, and if I do I disguise it, but it does interest me to see the future prospects of a lot of these girls in their early 20's who have their identities on full display. As many here have said, this type of thing isn't sustainable much past age 30 for most women, and I don't think most companies react very kindly to things like this if they find out about it. Some girls can easily make a 6 figure salary in a year, but almost none of them can make enough to retire in their 30's. 

I think most guys who get really butthurt about girls doing this have no actual moral qualms with it but are simply jealous that somebody could do this little and make so much money off of it. Hell, I'm jealous of how much money they can make. I will never understand how some guys can pay this much to watch a girl(or guy) do shit naked, or even clothed, but I figure most of them are pretty lonely and desperate. But I think if it's two adults making a legal exchange of services, I can't really say anything against it. I just think most girls who go into it are not thinking of the long-term consequences, but who in their early 20's does, especially when there's a potential for a large sum of money in front of them?


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## Dudeofteenage (Jun 12, 2015)

meltychocolate said:


> I have thought in the past that if you were a well paid stripper/cam girl and smart enough to save your money you could probably retire at 35 and not be bad off at all. The problem is most of these girls don't seem to be doing that.



How would we know if they were doing that?  Most cam girls don't talk about their 401ks.


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## EI 903 (Jun 12, 2015)

Dudeofteenage said:


> All of the Camgirls I know do it under assumed names, so it's not that likely to come up on a background check.  You'd need some kind of story for what you were doing during that time, but given how cruddy the economy is just saying you were out of work for your camgirl-ing years would probably fly.



A lot of them have part-time jobs as well, so it's rare that camming is the only thing they are doing with their time.


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## Holdek (Jun 30, 2015)

99% of them will regret it.  



Spoiler



You know it's true.


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## Bork Laser (Jul 4, 2015)

This is a big thing on tumblr. Every once in awhile I'll come across a reblog of a cam girl or something selling videos and etc. Its kinda werid though. On tumblr alot of these camgirls are hardcore SJWs or radfems. Its not uncommon for them reblog posts about saying fuck men or that all men suck and then in the next post advertise a service thats almost exclusive for males. I guess if you have a dedicated userbase that will pay no matter what you really think of them you can get away with it.

Some of them are also very stupid with what they want as gifts. Most camgirls have like a amazon gift list or something you can buy and get some sort of deal. Smart ones will list stuff they need, like supplies, gift cards to grocery stores and other essential items. Stupid ones are alot like Chirs, listing shit like hi-def tvs, video games/consoles, useless junk that if this ever fell through would be useless.

Its def a profitable business in a time where someone can just type boobs in Google and get off that but its time limited business as someone pointed out. Eventually you'll either need a fall back plan or find a niche of users that won't stop buying.


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## AnOminous (Jul 4, 2015)

Bork Laser said:


> This is a big thing on tumblr. Every once in awhile I'll come across a reblog of a cam girl or something selling videos and etc. Its kinda werid though. On tumblr alot of these camgirls are hardcore SJWs or radfems. Its not uncommon for them reblog posts about saying fuck men or that all men suck and then in the next post advertise a service thats almost exclusive for males. I guess if you have a dedicated userbase that will pay no matter what you really think of them you can get away with it.



Like Doug Stanhope said, who cares if your lap dancer is a Communist?  If the tits are out that's all you care about.


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## Bork Laser (Jul 4, 2015)

AnOminous said:


> Like Doug Stanhope said, who cares if your lap dancer is a Communist?  If the tits are out that's all you care about.


Of course. Theres just something inherently funny about seeing someone say "THE PAITRACHY IS ABUSING, OPRESSING AND KILLING WOMEN!" and all that typical tumblr shit and then the same breath say " ...but don't forget to buy my new vid for 19.99!" Again its like they know your gonna buy this shit anyways no matter what they say so might as well go full throttle.


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## Dudeofteenage (Jul 4, 2015)

Bork Laser said:


> Of course. Theres just something inherently funny about seeing someone say "THE PAITRACHY IS ABUSING, OPRESSING AND KILLING WOMEN!" and all that typical tumblr shit and then the same breath say " ...but don't forget to buy my new vid for 19.99!" Again its like they know your gonna buy this shit anyways no matter what they say so might as well go full throttle.



Well, it's not that weird if you don't think paying somebody for sex is oppressive or abusive.


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## SU 390 (Jul 4, 2015)

Bork Laser said:


> This is a big thing on tumblr. Every once in awhile I'll come across a reblog of a cam girl or something selling videos and etc. Its kinda werid though. On tumblr alot of these camgirls are hardcore SJWs or radfems. Its not uncommon for them reblog posts about saying fuck men or that all men suck and then in the next post advertise a service thats almost exclusive for males. I guess if you have a dedicated userbase that will pay no matter what you really think of them you can get away with it.
> 
> Some of them are also very stupid with what they want as gifts. Most camgirls have like a amazon gift list or something you can buy and get some sort of deal. Smart ones will list stuff they need, like supplies, gift cards to grocery stores and other essential items. Stupid ones are alot like Chirs, listing shit like hi-def tvs, video games/consoles, useless junk that if this ever fell through would be useless.
> 
> Its def a profitable business in a time where someone can just type boobs in Google and get off that but its time limited business as someone pointed out. Eventually you'll either need a fall back plan or find a niche of users that won't stop buying.



This to a fucking T. I've seen some of these camgirls on Tumblr. For the most part they are very attractive but fucking stuck up. What amuses me the most is that a bulk of them have boyfriends while saying some anti-male shit. I'm sure they're boyfriends are in it for bragging rights and knowing these cam models are good at what they do. I don't know no self-respecting man who would maintain a relationship with an anti-male tumblrina, cam model for two reasons: a) Her head game is mindblowning and/or b) Her life outside her camming and tumblr is rough and she only says that stuff just to rant and there's more to her than meets the eye. Other than that, fuck that noise for being anti-male and wanting the same men you hate buy your fucking videos for $20 or more in exchange of them exploding their testicles onto their computer screens because 'teehee, you'll never fuck me, so watch these short videos you spent so much money on you oppressor". Their shtick about equality goes out the window with their words.

Some of them are cool and decent to talk to, I just hate the anti male ones because they're such a contradiction.  In the end it's still porn regardless. I don't see holding on to these videos will matter in the long run. They're good for a quick wank. It's just a waste of hard drive space.



Bork Laser said:


> Of course. Theres just something inherently funny about seeing someone say "THE PAITRACHY IS ABUSING, OPRESSING AND KILLING WOMEN!" and all that typical tumblr shit and then the same breath say " ...but don't forget to buy my new vid for 19.99!" Again its like they know your gonna buy this shit anyways no matter what they say so might as well go full throttle.



Basically what I said above. Some don't care and just want something to masturbate to other than the other major porn sites. 



Dudeofteenage said:


> Well, it's not that weird if you don't think paying somebody for sex is oppressive or abusive.



Not really. What other reason would there be having sex with someone you're not emotionally and romantically linked to? Men pay for sex to satisfy a need. Women receive the money for survival and well money.


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## Dudeofteenage (Jul 4, 2015)

WanderingVagabond said:


> Not really. What other reason would there be having sex with someone you're not emotionally and romantically linked to? Men pay for sex to satisfy a need. Women receive the money for survival and well money.



Which part of that seems abusive and/or oppressive to you?


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## SU 390 (Jul 4, 2015)

Dudeofteenage said:


> Which part of that seems abusive and/or oppressive to you?



None of it. Some may think it is, but I don't. Nothing wrong with consensual adults making a service for sex to suit their needs.


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## Dudeofteenage (Jul 4, 2015)

WanderingVagabond said:


> None of it. Some may think it is, but I don't. Nothing wrong with consensual adults making a service for sex to suit their needs.



Well there you are then


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## Yellow Yam Scam (Jul 4, 2015)

I do a sort of sex work to make money on the side and it involves having to deal with camgirls (and guys) all the time. That being said, I cannot explain how strongly I believe that doing this shit "long-term" is a bad idea. It's easy money, but the problem is that for most people it's just enough money to make you say "Nah, I don't need a 'real' job." but not enough money to actually get ahead in life and and build up a savings for emergencies or large purchases.

If you're doing it to pay for college or for short-term expenses, great...but if you don't have a plan to elevate yourself using the money you make then you are probably fucking your life up.

It's the same situation when people are on SSID or unemployment and they figure that a real job would play only slightly more but require a lot more work. It's a dangerous mindset to have.


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## DiamondInTheRough (Jul 4, 2015)

WanderingVagabond said:


> This to a fucking T. I've seen some of these camgirls on Tumblr. For the most part they are very attractive but fucking stuck up. What amuses me the most is that a bulk of them have boyfriends while saying some anti-male shit. I'm sure they're boyfriends are in it for bragging rights and knowing these cam models are good at what they do. I don't know no self-respecting man who would maintain a relationship with an anti-male tumblrina, cam model for two reasons: a) Her head game is mindblowning and/or b) Her life outside her camming and tumblr is rough and she only says that stuff just to rant and there's more to her than meets the eye. Other than that, fuck that noise for being anti-male and wanting the same men you hate buy your fucking videos for $20 or more in exchange of them exploding their testicles onto their computer screens because 'teehee, you'll never fuck me, so watch these short videos you spent so much money on you oppressor". Their shtick about equality goes out the window with their words.
> 
> Some of them are cool and decent to talk to, I just hate the anti male ones because they're such a contradiction.  In the end it's still porn regardless. I don't see holding on to these videos will matter in the long run. They're good for a quick wank. It's just a waste of hard drive space.
> 
> ...



I don't browse tumblr at all so I wouldn't know, but it makes sense that a lot of girls in this line of work would also have feminist tendencies, due to the sex positive nature of a large subset of feminists. Of course they will align their beliefs with the ideology that says "sex positivity! it's your body, do what you want, there is literally nothing wrong with anything you're doing and there should never be repercussions!" Now, it depends what you take as "anti-male shit". If it's anything remotely pro-feminist, than maybe you're being too uptight. If it's actually "I hate men. They're all bad" then maybe I just haven't seen any of these girls. And since when are people supposed to be against making money off of groups of people they dislike? See: blaxploitation films, like any professional sports league, etc.


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## MACH-IV (Jul 5, 2015)

WanderingVagabond said:


> This to a fucking T. I've seen some of these camgirls on Tumblr. For the most part they are very attractive but fucking stuck up. What amuses me the most is that a bulk of them have boyfriends while saying some anti-male shit. I'm sure they're boyfriends are in it for bragging rights and knowing these cam models are good at what they do. I don't know no self-respecting man who would maintain a relationship with an anti-male tumblrina, cam model for two reasons: a) Her head game is mindblowning and/or b) Her life outside her camming and tumblr is rough and she only says that stuff just to rant and there's more to her than meets the eye. Other than that, fuck that noise for being anti-male and wanting the same men you hate buy your fucking videos for $20 or more in exchange of them exploding their testicles onto their computer screens because 'teehee, you'll never fuck me, so watch these short videos you spent so much money on you oppressor". Their shtick about equality goes out the window with their words.
> 
> Some of them are cool and decent to talk to, I just hate the anti male ones because they're such a contradiction.  In the end it's still porn regardless. I don't see holding on to these videos will matter in the long run. They're good for a quick wank. It's just a waste of hard drive space.
> 
> ...


This picture sums it up:






To whom it may concern,
I'm not implying anything, or judging anybody with this post so cool your autism. Downvoting this post is strictly prohibited.


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## SU 390 (Jul 5, 2015)

MACH-IV said:


> This picture sums it up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She's seems reasonable enough. My previous post wasn't a sweeping generalization of the tumblrina cam girl crowd. As aforementioned, some are decent and some are harpies.


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## MACH-IV (Jul 5, 2015)

WanderingVagabond said:


> She's seems reasonable enough. My previous post wasn't a sweeping generalization of the tumblrina cam girl crowd. As aforementioned, some are decent and some are harpies.


That seems reasonable to you?


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## Queen of Tarts (Jul 5, 2015)

Cam whoring will only work until their tits and vag get saggy.  Most of porn involves really young looking girls with shaved vags, so what if you're old and wrinkly and your tits trail the ground and your ass is like cottage cheese?

Is there a long-term career goal for this?


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## SU 390 (Jul 5, 2015)

MACH-IV said:


> That seems reasonable to you?



The post she made? Well yeah. Would you want to date an anti-male feminist? I sure as fuck wouldn't.


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## MACH-IV (Jul 5, 2015)

WanderingVagabond said:


> The post she made? Well yeah. Would you want to date an anti-male feminist? I sure as fuck wouldn't.


I already do. It's just a character she plays online. I'm not going to judge that shit because everyone can be whoever they want to be online, including me.

I get what you're saying though. I could theorize and give my personal thoughts on what it all means, but autistic downvotes trigger me. The answer is to just not take that stuff seriously. There are a lot of guys in her life and most of them take her shit way too seriously. She'll never admit it but I think she thinks less of them for it.


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## Flowers For Sonichu (Jul 6, 2015)

It's almost like men who hate women don't fuck women


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## Lefty's Revenge (Jul 6, 2015)

What exactly is the appeal of watching a cam girl? I don't really understand it. If you're gonna shell out money to get her to do sexual things you might as well just take a girl out on a few dates. You might actually get laid and the worst case scenario is you have an excuse to hang out with an attractive woman.


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## deeman (Jul 6, 2015)

Camwhoring? Is that still a thing? I get that the fetishists may get something out of it, but, like, vanilla-camwhoring?

Oh, and a totally related picture:


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## Flowers For Sonichu (Jul 6, 2015)

Lefty's Revenge said:


> What exactly is the appeal of watching a cam girl? I don't really understand it. If you're gonna shell out money to get her to do sexual things you might as well just take a girl out on a few dates. You might actually get laid and the worst case scenario is you have an excuse to hang out with an attractive woman.



The same reason why phone sex was so profitable in the 80s/90s

Lonely ass spergs who never get attention from women pay money to women to pay attention to them.


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## Holdek (Jul 6, 2015)

Queen of Tarts said:


> Is there a long-term career goal for this?



No.  But you're overthinking it.  Most women who do this have a significant piece missing from the puzzle, so they aren't really thinking about "long-term career goals."


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## AnOminous (Jul 6, 2015)

hurrhurrhurr said:


> It's almost like men who hate women don't fuck women



And conversely, men who fuck women don't hate women.


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## Dudeofteenage (Jul 6, 2015)

MACH-IV said:


> That seems reasonable to you?



She has low standards for men she has casual sex with, and higher standards for the man she aspires to marry.  Seems reasonable to me.  You might disagree with the kinds of standards she's applying, but the way she's applying them seems fairly intuitive.



hurrhurrhurr said:


> Lonely ass spergs who never get attention from women pay money to women to pay attention to them.



Good thing everybody here is a top-rank alpha dog pussy destroyer mowing down bitches left and right.


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## MACH-IV (Jul 6, 2015)

Dudeofteenage said:


> She has low standards for men she has casual sex with, and higher standards for the man she aspires to marry.  Seems reasonable to me.  You might disagree with the kinds of standards she's applying, but the way she's applying them seems fairly intuitive.


I don't disagree with it though...


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