# Why does fascism/white nationalism always include anti-Semitism?



## Joan Nyan (Aug 18, 2017)

Really, I don't see why there's such a strong connection between believing things like black people being inferior and believing in Zionist conspiracies. They talk about wanting to protect Western culture but the 2 most important figures in the history of Western society are probably (((Jesus))) the rabbi and Socrates the flaming faggot, the two types of people they hate the most. Is there any good reason for this besides autism?


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## WeaponsGradeAutism (Aug 18, 2017)

The Jewish people were always seen as the scapegoat throughout history. For example, during the Black Plague, the traditional unleavened bread during Passover involved cleaning out the stores from the previous year. This didn't give the German rats any sort of food.

The Jewish acknowledgment of cleanliness saved them, but it got them the tag as the cause by a very unclean and uneducated Dark Age gentile populace.


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## CrunkLord420 (Aug 18, 2017)

I think it's because they're stupid.

_They can't get over the idea that Jews consistently come out on top in basically every intelligence test, be it IQ tests or real world accomplishments in the sciences. Jews also don't accept conversions and culturally avoid interracial marriages. [MASTER RACE ENVY INTENSIFIES]_


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## Joan Nyan (Aug 18, 2017)

CrunkLord420 said:


> They can't get over the idea that Jews consistently come out on top in basically every intelligence test, be it IQ tests or real world accomplishments in the sciences.



White supremacists believe that they are superior to blacks and other races and therefore they should remove/exterminate them. Considering Jews are superior to White people, I guess it only makes sense for them to assume Jews want to destroy Whites, after all it's what they'd do in the same situation.


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## Foltest (Aug 18, 2017)

Nazis has always hated the jews, as they saw them as outsiders. However, fascism was not antisemtic in the beginning. In fact, in Italy there were a number of jews in the party and Mussolini didn't care so much about Judaism. It was only with the rise of Hitler that fascism become more antisemetic. With the introduktion of the Italian Racial laws in 1938, that Italian jews lost their right as citizen. Some prominent members of the Italian facsist party such as Italo Balbo, was against this, as he saw no reason to discriminate against Italian Jews (he was also against the allaiance with Hitler). Even Mussolini later in his life, said that was stupid to have those racial laws.


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## Crisseh (Aug 18, 2017)

As was talked about somewhat above, Jews make scapegoats. They are usually a minority in a group but unusually have more power due to a culture of industriousness and finance.

As white nationalism thrives on being a identitarian struggle. Enemies need to be through out and in their midst always trying to undermine their cause. The far left does it and so does the far right. They are both the different sides of them same coin. If you ask a leftist activist who is pushing the racism in America, its always the boogieman specter of white institutionalized racism, and white male privilege. They can never point out individuals. Because they need the specter to advance their agenda. Nazi's use the specter of white genocide, jews, or the words of SJWs in the same sense.

It's a lot easier to blame someone than to actually take responsibility for shitty actions. And the current culture of SJWism has empowered them and made them grow. They use the words of the identitarian left to amplify their recruitment. When you hear a SJW talk about how whites need to just die out, it pushes more people into the arms of White Nationalists.

If you listen to them a lot of times, it's not even the Jews they even bring up anymore, as much as latching onto American sentiment about political correctness, multiculturalism, and intersectionality power dynamics.

tl;dr: Easier to blame others than yourself.


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## ICametoLurk (Aug 18, 2017)

Foltest said:


> However, fascism was not antisemtic in the beginning. In fact, in Italy there were a number of jews in the party and Mussolini didn't care so much about Judaism. It was only with the rise of Hitler that fascism become more antisemetic. With the introduktion of the Italian Racial laws in 1938, that Italian jews lost their right as citizen. Some prominent members of the Italian facsist party such as Italo Balbo, was against this, as he saw no reason to discriminate against Italian Jews (he was also against the allaiance with Hitler). Even Mussolini later in his life, said that was stupid to have those racial laws.


The British Union of Fascists was similar.

What killed it was Nazi Sympathizers got onto the BUF because they were growing. Some of these men got powerful positions within the party, and tried to change it into a Jew-hating  party (like the Imperial Fascist League) at which point it fell to below 8,000 members as people didn't like it and Mosley condemned those who did it as Traitors but it was too late.

Admittedly before their death they didn't want Jews to be in Europe. They wanted to send all the Jews in Europe to the British Mandate of Palestine and they would've had to deal with the Arabs themselves.


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## Beaniebon (Aug 18, 2017)

Spoiler



:autism:


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## DrGayHitler (Aug 18, 2017)

Anti-Semitism has a long and ugly legacy which is deeply ingrained in European, and thus Euro-American, culture. In an era which saw centuries of Catholic/Christian cultural hegemony, it was a group which one could pockets of in almost any part of europe which would have linguistic and cultural qualities that where distinct from the surrounding population. Also due to Catholic-cultural taboos on usury/finance, Jewish people often became overrepresented in early finance and trade.  These and other factors made them easy marks for out-grouping and superstitious hatred as well as opportunistic scapegoating on behalf of ruling elites.

Now take centuries of this xenophobic cultural tradition and add the industrial revolution and the emergence of capitalism, then eventually mass-culture and global imperialism in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Deeply unequal imperial states and the new bourgeoisie (capitalist) ruling classes take up the tradition of anti-semitic scapegoating as a tool, despite the existence of individual jews within the bourgeoisie (thanks in part to the historical association with finance).  So now this anti-semitic cultural meme is continued and amplified by print news, expanding literacy, telegraph, radio, and eventually film. Likewise you also have the Jewish diaspora, found all over Europe and Euro-America, forging international cultural links through new transportation and communications technology -- just as many groups did who where bound by culture, religion, interest or ideology.

In a time of emerging international powers, with international ruling classes and massive amounts of money, so to must anti-semitic narratives become internationalized. A reductive caricature of the Jew, operating a vast international conspiracy, supplants the more complex and abstract machinations of international capitalism as the figure-head in charge of the system which immiserated the European proletariat and peasantry.

**I want to make a not here that individual powerful industrialists and political leaders could easily believe in the anti-semitic propaganda they spread, even as it served the systemic purpose of misdirecting popular anger away from the capitalist system and its rulers**

It is in this period, specifically Russia in 1903, that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is published. A hack job bit of anti-semitic propaganda posing as the minutes of a meeting between high ranking Jewish figures, articulating a global conspiracy. Much of it's contents are actually ripped from a French political satire from decades earlier called: "_Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu".  _The book spread from Russia along with defeated 'White Russian (anti-communists)' who left or where exiled from Russia after the revolution and subsequent civil war.  Naturally, being right next door, a lot of them ended up in Germany. Here they published and spread the book, and attempted to link the Bolsheviks to the international Jewish conspiracy, creating 'Jewish Bolshevism'.

Thus anti-communism and anti-semitic conspiracies become tied together. Not just the Nazis, but reactionary capitalists everywhere embraced this narrative as a propaganda tool or personal belief, not just Nazi Germany. For example: Henry Ford, a dogshit fascist person, had hundreds of thousands of copies published and distributed. And so anti-semitic conspiracies became part of the memetic makeup of fascist/reactionary/hard-right/anti-socialist ideology. You see it now with alt-righters, with the old John Birch society, with European Neo-Nazis, and (quietly) even many elements of more mainstream conservative culture and politics. You can still see it dog whistled in oblique references to 'international financiers/bankers' which appear in various right-wing media.

tl;dr Anti-semitism is a very old European cultural meme and a useful scapegoating tool for power. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hoax is published in Russia in 1903, then incorporated into anti-communist propaganda after the Russian Revolution. This causes it to spread all over Europe/America and become deeply ingrained in right-wing ideology.

Hopefully this helped. I'm just posting off the top of my head so I encourage the curious to research the matter more thoroughly. As with any major cultural phenomenon the factors involved are enormously complex.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 18, 2017)

CrunkLord420 said:


> I think it's because they're stupid.
> 
> _They can't get over the idea that Jews consistently come out on top in basically every intelligence test, be it IQ tests or real world accomplishments in the sciences. Jews also don't accept conversions and culturally avoid interracial marriages. [MASTER RACE ENVY INTENSIFIES]_





Jon-Kacho said:


> White supremacists believe that they are superior to blacks and other races and therefore they should remove/exterminate them. Considering Jews are superior to White people, I guess it only makes sense for them to assume Jews want to destroy Whites, after all it's what they'd do in the same situation.


But they're more inclined to be accepting of Asians (at least not utterly loathing them like the Jews) who are smartypants.

Jews are just easy to hate because they all wear funny hats and take too many holidays.


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## Jeff Heaney (Aug 18, 2017)

Autism


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## escapegoat (Aug 18, 2017)

Everyone already hit on the white part, but there's also the nationalism part: these people think that Jews, no matter where they are, are more loyal to their ethnic tribe than their nation. The same sort of thing is held against Catholics, because they're supposedly more loyal to Rome than country.


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## Salt Water Taffy (Aug 18, 2017)

Another thing is that our modern definition of "white" in America is the broadest its ever been - as little as 100 years ago "white" was really only people of Anglo-Saxon (hence the modern "WASP"), French, German, and Scandinavian & Northern European ancestry. Along with the Jews, people of Irish, Polish, Slavic/Eastern European, Spanish, Italian, and Greek were also thought of as "others" (You'll notice all of these countries are predominantly either Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, that's not a coincidence; there's always been an oft-overlooked religious prejudice in most white supremacy groups because they're not using the same definition of white that we do.)


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## CrunkLord420 (Aug 18, 2017)

Y2K Baby said:


> But they're more inclined to be accepting of Asians (at least not utterly loathing them like the Jews) who are smartypants.
> 
> Jews are just easy to hate because they all wear funny hats and take too many holidays.


I wasn't being serious, just trolling anti-semites who might be reading. Those metrics didn't historically exist, outside of literacy rates which have always been high.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 18, 2017)

CrunkLord420 said:


> I wasn't being serious


M-Me too...


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## Emperor Julian (Aug 20, 2017)

interestingly anti-semitism seems to be toned down in british white nationalists as off late and favour of anti-islamic sentiment. I suspect that the fairly congenial and integrated jewish communities of the UK and britains  zeigeist about ww2 means it's a lot easier to other the still fairly distinct muslims and their othernesss (this is before we throw terrorism into the mix).


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## AnOminous (Aug 20, 2017)

Jon-Kacho said:


> Really, I don't see why there's such a strong connection between believing things like black people being inferior and believing in Zionist conspiracies. They talk about wanting to protect Western culture but the 2 most important figures in the history of Western society are probably (((Jesus))) the rabbi and Socrates the flaming faggot, the two types of people they hate the most. Is there any good reason for this besides autism?



Because white nationalists are always sad failures and cunts who are upset by the actual Jewish master race that really does control everything.


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## Emperor Julian (Aug 20, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Because white nationalists are always sad failures and cunts who are upset by the actual Jewish master race that really does control everything.



 That always bugged me about them: their survival of the fittest strong will rule, jews are inferior bullshit really doesnt mesh well with the sort of power and influence they accuse jews of having.


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## AnOminous (Aug 20, 2017)

Emperor Julian said:


> That always bugged me about them: their survival of the fittest strong will rule, jews are inferior perspective really doesnt mesh well with the sort of power and influence they accuse jews of having.



It's an invariable facet of every single supremacist or extremist group.  They always have an enemy that is simultaneously the most inferior, pathetic group in the world but somehow controls everything.

If you had a Build-a-Bear to make extremist ideologies, having some group with ridiculously contradictory characteristics like this would be an absolute necessity.

Ideologies like this are Chinese finger-traps for the mind, in that it takes a very specific kind of stupidity to believe them.


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## Emperor Julian (Aug 20, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> It's an invariable facet of every single supremacist or extremist group.  They always have an enemy that is simultaneously the most inferior, pathetic group in the world but somehow controls everything.
> 
> If you had a Build-a-Bear to make extremist ideologies, having some group with ridiculously contradictory characteristics like this would be an absolute necessity.
> 
> Ideologies like this are Chinese finger-traps for the mind, in that it takes a very specific kind of stupidity to believe them.



 That also explains the suprisingly large number of neo-nazi Slavs considering Hitler considered them sub-human, I suppose radical Islamic  organizations have the same bullshit going on-the west is both decadent and weak but also the reason why everything sucks. I often find myself thinking if you really did believe all this shite then the logical thing to do would be to bolester your own people's strength within legal and productive boundries as opposed to engaging on random but ultimatly pointless attacks on 'the enemy'.


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## Shokew (Aug 20, 2017)

I know I'm not the smartest person to be saying anything on this matter, but I know this fucking much: we gotta blame someone for everything wrong with the world today. Why not blame the most successful of our world - which the Jews happen to be, according to world history, of course.


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## Caesare (Aug 20, 2017)

The creators of fascism, the Italians, had no anti-semetic facet to their brand of fascism.


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## Emperor Julian (Aug 20, 2017)

Coleman Francis said:


> The creators of fascism, the Italians, had no anti-semetic facet to their brand of fascism.



 That actually makes them just as bad because it implies they'll throw anyone under the bus for advantage when the going gets tough.


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## Clownfish (Sep 15, 2017)

Jews are associated with the two things fascists hate. Socialism and capitalism. Marx had Jewish blood and George Soros was born to a Jewish family.


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## ES 148 (Sep 15, 2017)

If we're talking about the alt-right I'm tempted to say it's because Hitler did it and they want to be as edgy as possible.

As for a legitimate reason for the trend, I really couldn't say.


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## AnOminous (Sep 15, 2017)

Clownfish said:


> Jews are associated with the two things fascists hate. Socialism and capitalism. Marx had Jewish blood and George Soros was born to a Jewish family.



Jews generally have an IQ at least 1 standard deviation above the norm in any population.

This pisses off the usually retarded, incredibly stupid people who hate Jews.


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## ZeCommissar (Sep 19, 2017)

Why be orginal when you can hate Jews like everyone else has throughout history?


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## Euphues Evenlede (Sep 20, 2017)

In the words of Jared Taylor, I hate the Jews because they made it rain on my birthday.

Though to take a serious tone for a moment, there are much more practical reasons why White Nationalism and Antisemitism have remained intertwined within movements like the Alt-Right.

At the risk of revealing my power-level (both in the Kiwi and Alt-Right senses of the word) and in the interest of transparency, I’ll make mention first that I am a former White Nationalist. I can only speak for myself and of those whom I’ve read, listened to, or met. While looking at an issue from the inside provides greater clarity, it also limits one's scope of awareness.

The chief source of Antisemitism on the Alt-Right results directly from Jewish opposition to White Nationalism. Jews don’t like White Nationalism, so White Nationalists don’t like Jews. You could examine the roots of that mutual antipathy and argue forever about who threw the first stone. I don’t have time to delve into such a subject at length. Suffice it to say that the cycle will not stop any time soon.

The second source of Antisemitism on the Alt-Right results from a perceived sense of Jewish ethnic solidarity. Though that solidarity might not be as solid as some might have you believe, it certainly surpasses White ethnic solidarity in America. As a crude analogy, imagine two Football teams competing with one another. Both teams are deleterious and self-defeating, but one team can shape up enough to score a goal (like the establishment of a Jewish ethnostate in the Middle East). 

The third source of Antisemitism on the Alt-Right results from a disproportionate Jewish influence in media, politics, and finance.

The fourth source of Antisemitism on the Alt-Right results from the Jew’s tendency to embrace or betray their own Whiteness depending upon which would be most convenient for them at the moment. Since White Nationalists cannot trust Jews to maintain ethnic solidarity with them, they simply exclude them entirely.  

There are other smaller tributaries of Antisemitic influence, like Friedrich Nietzsche, traditional Christian opposition to Jews, the NSDAP’s treatment of Jews, etc. Naturally individuals on the Alt-Right come to Antisemitism by their own confluence of factors, but these are the main ones that I have recognized.


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## AnOminous (Sep 20, 2017)

Also this song explains it pretty much.






"Well, the Protestants hate the Catholics.
And the Catholics hate the Protestants.
And the Hindus hate the Muslims.
And everybody hates the Jews."


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## ICametoLurk (Sep 21, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> everybody hates the Jews.


_Everyone.
_

https://samtub.net/video/ULF-Debates-an-AntiSemitic-AnarchoPrimitivist/IerHpr7eTcI.html


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## ArnoldPalmer (Oct 6, 2017)

Ready to read a messy text wall, rife with half-drunk rambling? I literally have no idea if this will end up coherent.

I checked this thread with the hope of seeing honest to god discussion, and instead I find half the posters in here acting like the Jews are some kind of master-race because they "hire from within" when it comes to the industries they dominate.

Is this Bizarro World? I sincerely hope that you aren't conflating Hollywood tribalism with actual merit-based success. "In order to get into Hollywood, you'll have to suck a Jew's cock eventually" isn't a meme for no reason.

Honestly, I do see some reason to hate "The Jews" (mostly in how they like to assume hegemony over the media, and fuck with U.S. Foreign Policy to benefit the Gaza strip), but on the flipside of that, I also think that "The Jews" is far too nebulous and ambiguous a term to actually be an accurate label for the brand of people that these folks hate. It's like "White People", when that can now refer to essentially anyone who has ancestral lineage to Europe.

If I were a betting boy, I'd say that their ire towards "The Jews" is really just an inarticulate hatred of Zionists and Zionism, and/or Israel itself, which usually depends on who you talk to, because Israel and Zionism are at odds with one another. There are ethnic Jews, religious Jews, secular Jews, Christians who think they're Jews, and the list goes on. Fuck Zionists, though. Gas them all. They're like the Westboro Baptist Church of Judaism, only with money and power.

My personal feelings on "The Jews" are about identical to my feelings on "The Muslims". I think both groups are chock full of supremacists and shitbirds, but there are probably some good ones. I also think that "Anti-Semitism" is just as much of a scapegoat as blaming the Jews for everything. Terms like that and Islamophobia are used for only one purpose, and it's to absolve entire swathes of people of any wrongdoing. Anti-Semitism on its own should not be a crime. That's only giving special victim status to Jews for bigotry that can be applied to any other group based on their features.


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## Feline Darkmage (Oct 8, 2017)

Clownfish said:


> Jews are associated with the two things fascists hate. Socialism and capitalism. Marx had Jewish blood and George Soros was born to a Jewish family.



Funnily enough I stumbled on something that was called an anti-Semitic piece of literature written by none other than Karl Marx while I was trying to find some article calling Communism racist among some other political research. He wrote a paper called "On the Jewish Question" (wikipedia article, too lazy to find the actual other articles I was looking at that referenced this)

these are the quote people use to paint him that way


> Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.
> 
> Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.
> 
> ...


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