# US Women's Soccer Team sues for equal pay



## Diabeetus (Mar 14, 2019)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/...suit-gender-discrimination.html?module=inline


			
				The Article said:
			
		

> _More than two dozen members of the United States women’s national team sued U.S. Soccer in federal court on Friday.
> 
> Twenty-eight members of the world champion United States women’s soccer team significantly escalated their long-running fight with the country’s soccer federation over pay equity and working conditions, filing a gender discrimination lawsuit on Friday.
> 
> ...



Well, uh...okay? I don't think they'll win, because if this case was realistic, then every women's group and every woman worker would have some gender inequality suit tied to their name. I could be wrong, I'm only sorta familiar with United States legalese, so my opinion is not the most trustable.


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## TowinKarz (Mar 14, 2019)

Color me surprised, I was sure the WNBA was going to go the self-destructive lawsuit route first on account of their POC multiplier making it a greater crime they don't make as much as the men and the slow burn they've been doing on ESPN for the last year or so about how the fact they're an unpopular sport that can't fill a community college gym on a good night and would fold tomorrow if the NBA shut off the revenue tap isn't the problem.


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## Red Hood (Mar 14, 2019)

You don't get paid for a leisure activity while your husband does the cooking.


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## Draza (Mar 14, 2019)

Become more watchable than the men's team then you'll earn your equal pay,otherwise stop crying.


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## Datiko (Mar 14, 2019)

Generate equal revenue if you want equal pay.  WNT should actually be deducted money due to how subsidized women's sport is.


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## Ido (Mar 14, 2019)

Male sports are much more popular than women sports, just in general, of course you're going to make a lot less.


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## Salubrious (Mar 14, 2019)

Ratko_Falco said:


> Become more watchable than the men's team then you'll earn your equal pay,otherwise stop crying.



I actually think the women's team has been more watchable then the men's team the last several years.  The men's team didn't even qualify for the World Cup last year because of an embarrassing loss.  Most of the good men's players are aging out now and other than Christian Pulisic there's not much exciting in the near future on the men's side.


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## Stab You in the Back (Mar 14, 2019)

Diabeetus said:


> Well, uh...okay? I don't think they'll win, because if this case was realistic, then every women's group and every woman worker would have some gender inequality suit tied to their name. I could be wrong, I'm only sorta familiar with United States legalese, so my opinion is not the most trustable.



I don't think they'll win either because they seem to be basing their suit on the premise that male and female soccer players hold equivalent positions even though they're represented by different unions and play in different leagues.


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## Butter (Mar 14, 2019)

Salubrious said:


> I actually think the women's team has been more watchable then the men's team the last several years.  The men's team didn't even qualify for the World Cup last year because of an embarrassing loss.  Most of the good men's players are aging out now and other than Christian Pulisic there's not much exciting in the near future on the men's side.


The US lady's team has always been more successful/better than the men's team. A few years back, they and Germany were the two best teams in the world for years. 

Still, if the men's team generates more fans, interest, tv quotes and therefore more sponsorships, advertising and so on (income), the women have 0 rights to get paid more. 

This is such a blatant cash grab, if the political Zeitgeist were any different, they'd be laughed out of court.


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## Capsaicin Addict (Mar 14, 2019)

Compete against the guys and win, and I'll happily help increase the pay out of my own pocket.


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## Salubrious (Mar 14, 2019)

Butter said:


> The US lady's team has always been more successful/better than the men's team. A few years back, they and Germany were the two best teams in the world for years.
> 
> Still, if the men's team generates more fans, interest, tv quotes and therefore more sponsorships, advertising and so on (income), the women have 0 rights to get paid more.
> 
> This is such a blatant cash grab, if the political Zeitgeist were any different, they'd be laughed out of court.



I guess that's the question: how much money do the men and women each generate?

I know the WNBA loses money for example, but if someone told me that the women and men in US soccer generated the same revenue, I would believe it.

Outside of the FIFA World Cup numbers, which this year would actually favor the women because the men didn't even qualify, what are the numbers?


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## MasterDisaster (Mar 14, 2019)

They should try playing naked.  Viewership would at least increase...1.5%?


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## Positron (Mar 14, 2019)

Butter said:


> Still, if the men's team generates more fans, interest, tv quotes and therefore more sponsorships, advertising and so on (income), the women have 0 rights to get paid more.


In other words, they are not doing equal work, so it is beyond ridiculous that they demand equal pay.  It is like the CEO of a fly-by-night demanding equal pay as Tim Cook, because they're both CEOs.


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## Smaug's Smokey Hole (Mar 14, 2019)

Stab You in the Back said:


> I don't think they'll win either because they seem to be basing their suit on the premise that male and female soccer players hold equivalent positions even though they're represented by different unions and play in different leagues.



Proposal: merge the leagues and pay them based on performance, if one of them consistently outplays Lionel Messi they should get Messi money. On the other hand, if they get blown out by 16 year olds then give them 15 year old money(what's the average allowance these days?).


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## Reactionary Rhetoric (Mar 14, 2019)

IIRC women's soccer is played at the level of 14 to 16 year old boys. I believe there was at least one exhibition match wherein a women's Olympic team lost to a male juniors squad.

Edit: found it.








						Matildas lose 7-0 to under-15s boys side
					

Australian women soccer team the Matildas have had a shock 7-0 loss to a Newcastle Jets under-15 boys team in Newcastle on Wednesday in a disastrous preparation for the Rio Olympics.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## TowinKarz (Mar 14, 2019)

Salubrious said:


> I guess that's the question: how much money do the men and women each generate?
> 
> I know the WNBA loses money for example, but if someone told me that the women and men in US soccer generated the same revenue, I would believe it.
> 
> Outside of the FIFA World Cup numbers, which this year would actually favor the women because the men didn't even qualify, what are the numbers?



Matt Christiansen crunched some numbers because his latest podcast was about this suit (filed on International Women's Day, that's not a blatant tell is it?)

I can't remember the concrete figures he cited, but, even when they made it to the Championship, the Women didn't gross more than the Men's team, and they had to win it all even to get close.  (And in further hypocrisy, the women took home a bigger % of the total as personal winnings than the men did, it's ALREADY biased in their favor)

The sport simply doesn't make enough money for the pay rates to be equal, even when women get a BIGGER SHARE OF THE PURSE.   

They seem to be suing the world for sexism because they aren't popular (with said unpoularity clearly being the fault of SOMEONE), and merely using the league as a proxy since you can serve it papers.


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## Polyboros2 (Mar 14, 2019)

If this gets any traction, I hope the lawyers on US Soccer does the math and finds that the female players actually make a larger percentage of the total income for their sport versus the men. Just by the virtue of the men's making so much more money. Probably more likely in the WNBA vs NBA, but still, I'd find it funny.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Mar 14, 2019)

I am a worker. Bill Gates was a worker. Where's my 3 billion?


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## NN 401 (Mar 14, 2019)

Tennis and MMA in recent memory have their athletes draw equal compensation regardless of sex.

That’s largely due to the fact that people turn out equally for male and female competitors.

I think gymnastics is another one and rock climbing is coming into its own. 

Male and female athletes are not entitled to each other’s profits.

However, you _do_ have to pay people to win championships. 
Make of that what you will.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Mar 14, 2019)

There's a women's soccer league?


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## MuuMuu Bunnylips (Mar 14, 2019)

Ratko_Falco said:


> Become more watchable than the men's team then you'll earn your equal pay,otherwise stop crying.


Maybe if the played naked. And were relatively good looking, obviously.


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## Lucas Silva #4903141 (Mar 14, 2019)

Datiko said:


> Generate equal revenue if you want equal pay.  WNT should actually be deducted money due to how subsidized women's sport is.


Yeah, someone look up how the National Women's League doing in the US, I've heard its finances are hopeless.
Some might get the idea that women's soccer is popular because goddamn, look at how many people go to see the US women's national team, right? The reality is that they do that just for a chance to chant USA USA USA for the olympics/women's world cup, else the local women's league would do well instead of having empty stadiums for so many matches. Not many people care about women's soccer, that's just reality.


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## kcbbq (Mar 14, 2019)

Polyboros2 said:


> If this gets any traction, I hope the lawyers on US Soccer does the math and finds that the female players actually make a larger percentage of the total income for their sport versus the men. Just by the virtue of the men's making so much more money. Probably more likely in the WNBA vs NBA, but still, I'd find it funny.


The WNBA would also be skewed by a couple franchises that do OK overall (MN and LA). The talent pool is improving, but it might be a little too late. Trading for Lindsey Whalen made a lot of money in MN, and she sells a relatively large amount of tickets coaching at UofMN now that she's retired. It'll never be the NBA, but it's kind of fun if you're a fan of old-fashioned basketball instead of a game where the players are more skilled than the court is designed for.

Tennis equals out better, because short skirts are worth an extra 20mph on a serve.


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## W00K #17 (Mar 14, 2019)

MasterDisaster said:


> They should try playing naked.  Viewership would at least increase...1.5%?


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## Polyboros2 (Mar 14, 2019)

MuuMuu Bunnylips said:


> Maybe if the played naked. And were relatively good looking, obviously.



Honestly, the most women's soccer I've ever watched is when the one chick took off her shirt and ran around in a sports bra after winning something.


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## RumblyTumbly (Mar 14, 2019)

Instead of just suing your way into equality, why not find ways to rebrand and grow awareness for the sport to get the women to draw the same revenue as the men?


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## Tasty Tatty (Mar 14, 2019)

The final of the World Cup, not the whole thing, but only the final match, was watched by 1.12 billion people. China isn't even a football-crazy country and about 50 million people watched the final match live (sources wiki and official fifa website). 

When you manage that kind of interest, you can demand any payment you want.


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## Cyberw33n (Mar 14, 2019)

What do they want next?
Maybe a kitchen behind the goal?


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## TowinKarz (Mar 14, 2019)

RumblyTumbly said:


> Instead of just suing your way into equality, why not find ways to rebrand and grow awareness for the sport to get the women to draw the same revenue as the men?



I haven't read the complaint word-for-word, but, apparently, the go-to excuse for that obvious counterpoint is "It's not our JOB to make the league popular! That's for the governing body to do!  it's CURRENT YEAR! There's no reason it can't be just as popular if not moreso, the fact it isn't is just further proof of how misogynist they are.  We just want our EQUAL PAY NOW!  Don't cloud the issue with these pointless economic arguments.... it's about WOMEN!!!!"

i.e. - Not my job to educate you shitlord, gimmie gimmie gimmie cuz' muh feels.


This is getting dangerously close to the cast of_ Ghostbusters_ suing Sony for not promoting the movie properly because, obviously, if they had, it'd have made trillions, which is what I think we'll inevitably see if trends continue.   They are honestly going to try and sue the public, via content publishers, when they can't force people to watch their socjus garbage, by claiming discrimination.   "It would have succeeded if it had been a WHITE GUY writing it!!!! So gimmie!" 

Marvel and Disney are going to jettison these deadweights when they try and turn on them and sue the hand that feeds for similar "equality" reasons.


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## Ali della Fenice (Mar 14, 2019)

As usual, strong independent wymen go cry cry, when they dont get their way.


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## Smaug's Smokey Hole (Mar 14, 2019)

kcbbq said:


> The WNBA would also be skewed by a couple franchises that do OK overall (MN and LA). The talent pool is improving, but it might be a little too late. Trading for Lindsey Whalen made a lot of money in MN, and she sells a relatively large amount of tickets coaching at UofMN now that she's retired. It'll never be the NBA, but it's kind of fun if you're a fan of old-fashioned basketball instead of a game where the players are more skilled than the court is designed for.
> 
> Tennis equals out better, because short skirts are worth an extra 20mph on a serve.



Yeah, women's sports can be more fun to watch in some instances because the men are just too good while the women are good enough to play on a high level. Sounds a bit stupid, but tennis is a good example of where women can be more fun to watch and it ties into your NBA example. Women in tennis can't cover pretty much the entire court at all times, they can't explode into any direction in a split second, they're not as fast, they have to play the game of strategy and work towards setting things up in a way that is more noticeable to the viewer. That makes it more interesting in my opinion, but I'm just a casual viewer. Women in tennis makes a ton of money? Great, they earned that money. Women's soccer(and hockey) shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth though.


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## Yuusha-sama (Mar 14, 2019)

MasterDisaster said:


> They should try playing naked.  Viewership would at least increase...1.5%?


In Berlin they organize an open-air event called "SexySoccer"
that takes place every two years parallel with the Football World Cup or European Championship.
At the event, a football game from the current game plan is replayed.








Spoiler: Body Painting Boobs etc.


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## Kiwi Lime Pie (Mar 14, 2019)

Salubrious said:


> I actually think the women's team has been more watchable then the men's team the last several years.



As others have stated, the women's team has been far more successful on the international and Olympic level. What I think the team fails to grasp, however, that women's leagues in general aren't as popular as their male counterparts. Anecdotally, girls teams starting from elementary school age on up have had fewer individuals trying out for teams compared to boys and fewer teams resulting from those lower numbers.

Also, women's sports weren't too popular prior to Title IX in the US. Before then, most women desiring athletic competition had limited options that included intramural play and single-day or weekend play dates/festivals featuring multiple women's teams from a particular area. As such, they've had a shorter time - relatively speaking - to establish a base of fans and supporting sponsors. Further, women's soccer is an exception and not the rule. While it's true women's sports might have aspects involving teamwork and team play that are more enjoyable than their male counterparts, the fact remains that women's leagues still face a perception - whether real or perceived - that their teams simply aren't on par with or better than men's teams even when it's true.



TowinKarz said:


> i.e. - Not my job to educate you shitlord, gimmie gimmie gimmie cuz' muh feels.



This new lawsuit is puzzling. I believe within the last year or two the women's national soccer team threatened some sort of walkout unless they got better pay and working conditions. I *thought* a last-second deal was made to prevent the walkout. So, the new lawsuit and its timing is head-scratching to me ?. Did the terms of the previous agreement not get followed? Or is this a matter of, as @TowinKarz stated, "we want more, more, and even more"? Also, the timing of the suit to be filed on International Women's Day can't be political at all, right ??

Suits such as this one that focus on strict equality without looking at the larger picture make me wonder if the people desiring this forced equality have ever read the short story _Harrison Bergeron_ where the successful and able people are physically hindered or even handicapped to make them equal with those that aren't as able as everyone else. Instead of penalizing men's teams for their higher revenue streams and monetary support, the women would be better off asking "How can we take our own successes and parlay that into more support to eventually match that of our male counterparts?"

And yes, I know it's too  to expect that last part to happen any time soon. It's far easier to sue someone than it is to work for the results one wants.

Edit: Fixed a wrong word


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## Munchingonfish (Mar 16, 2019)

If you want equal pay, why keep separate leagues? If you're demanding the same wages you must be of the same skill level. Just make it co-ed. It's current year! Maybe the 10 women that land a spot on a roster (most either benched, or signed for woke points/publicity on bottom ranked teams) can split their earnings across the entire sisterhood. I'm sure that'll definitely be more than their current take in a soccer crazed patriarchy like the United States.



> One of the biggest differences in compensation is the multimillion-dollar bonuses the teams receive for participating in the World Cup, but those bonuses — a pool of $400 million for 32 men’s teams versus $30 million for 24 women’s teams — are determined by FIFA, world soccer’s governing body, not U.S. Soccer.



NYT throws those numbers out there without any context:



> The men's World Cup in Russia generated over $6 billion in revenue, with the participating teams sharing $400 million, less than 7% of revenue. Meanwhile, the Women's World Cup is expected to earn $131 million for the full four-year cycle 2019-22 and dole out $30 million to the participating teams.











						Revenue Disparity Explains Pay Disparity Between Soccer World Cup's Men And Women
					

Women's soccer players earn more than men as a proportion of the revenue they generate.



					www.forbes.com
				




Women get an extremely disproportionate purse from FIFA compared to men. If they weren't already highly paid and wouldn't suffer woke boycotts, the men would likely win a discrimination lawsuit.

Maybe people would start caring more about women's soccer if they had more trannies.


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## Colonel J (Mar 16, 2019)

I remember them pulling this stunt a few years ago during the last World Cup.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Mar 18, 2019)

This just fucking sums up the stupidity of the "equal pay" bullshit.

I don't understand economics. Therefore give me all the money.


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## pwnest injun (Mar 18, 2019)

I hope they win and the result is an integrated league, aka no more women playing soccer professionally.


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## Ineedahero (Mar 18, 2019)

So what's their solution? Force people to watch them play their dumb gay sport? Are we going full blown coupon the movie? 








						Who Greenlighted "Coupon: the Movie"? / the Trial / the Trailer
					

from Mr. Show 2x06 The Velveteen Touch of a Dandy Flop http://www.bobanddavid.com




					m.youtube.com


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Mar 20, 2019)

Ineedahero said:


> So what's their solution? Force people to watch them play their dumb gay sport? Are we going full blown coupon the movie?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, come on, they wouldn't be that cruel.  They'll just have the government subsidize it from our taxes, they wouldn't make us actually watch it.


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## UF 404 (Mar 20, 2019)

As others have mentioned, they earn less because less people are interested in watching them. Professional sports are basically a business, and when one business is much more successful than another, the people employed there often get paid more. 

I'm not really qualified to give advice on how they can get more people watching them and thus grow the business, but I'm pretty sure suing probably isn't going to do it.


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## The Penultimate Warrior (Mar 21, 2019)

If we're going to follow their logic, shouldn't all football players be paid the same wage? Someone who plays for Manchester United still does the same job as someone who plays for Macclesfield Town, so why aren't they paid the same?


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Mar 21, 2019)

The_Penultimate_Warrior said:


> If we're going to follow their logic, shouldn't all football players be paid the same wage? Someone who plays for Manchester United still does the same job as someone who plays for Macclesfield Town, so why aren't they paid the same?


I'm confused.  You talk about football, a good and fun sport, then say Manchester United, which sounds like some silly soccer club. 

The women are paid a higher percentage of the overall take, so in a sense, they're overpaid compared to male athletes.

Of course, in another, saner sense, they're paid exactly enough to get them to play without preventing women's soccer from being profitable. Just like the men.


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## дядя Боря (Mar 21, 2019)

Munchingonfish said:


> If you want equal pay, why keep separate leagues?



that's not a bad idea, they should get some experts from US military on integration. So if a goal is scored by a woman, it's counted as 1.2 and if goal scored against a female goalie by a man, it's only 0.8 point.

I lol at all the uproar at thannies dominating women athletics. May be that's the solution. Wymen football needs more trannies hopped up on drugs.


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## Mrtrollenski (Mar 23, 2019)

I’ve now watched German Sexy Soccer more than I’ve watched actual women’s soccer


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## ⋖ cørdion ⋗ (Apr 5, 2019)

We had this debate (far more professionally handled) recently about the female national team being paid less than the male ones; consequently playing less for less spectators. Thankfully the sensible women figured it was a supply/demand issue, but the national soccer union kept pushing it on 50 other fronts for brownie points. Some of the national team players basically lost money flying from their real team in the US back home, play, and then back again. 

The general consensus for facebook grannies was "you don't play for the money but the pride and nationalism!". They literally paid money to represent our country in a low-viewer sport. Can't remember the outcome but it's not a first for the US.


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## дядя Боря (Apr 5, 2019)

Cactus Wings said:


> We had this debate (far more professionally handled) recently about the female national team being paid less than the male ones; consequently playing less for less spectators. Thankfully the sensible women figured it was a supply/demand issue, but the national soccer union kept pushing it on 50 other fronts for brownie points. Some of the national team players basically lost money flying from their real team in the US back home, play, and then back again.
> 
> The general consensus for facebook grannies was "you don't play for the money but the pride and nationalism!". They literally paid money to represent our country in a low-viewer sport. Can't remember the outcome but it's not a first for the US.



I wish US men's football did not suck hard. It's practically unwatchable. When a Euro club comes for a friendly game, it's a huge event.


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