# Discussione generale sulle lolcows italiane



## nya001 (Oct 23, 2020)

In Italia ci sono numerosissime lolcows di tutti i tipi. Mi sembra bene avere qui avere dove archiviare il materiale e mantenerlo fuori dalle restrizioni italiane.

English: in Italy there are very many lolcows of all kinds. It seems a good idea to me to be able to archive material here and keep it away from Italian restrictions.


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## Fascist Ferret (Oct 23, 2020)

This isnt good enough?






						Internationale Clique
					

Do you speak multiple languages and know about people who'd only appeal to speakers of your language? Read this, and make your contribution to the Internationale Clique today !!




					kiwifarms.net
				




Edit, I'm an idiot, looks like there are threads similar to this one for other countries....

Tbh I would recommend fleshing out the OP. 

Give examples. Who is a funny lolcow in italy?


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## SIGSEGV (Oct 23, 2020)

ravioli macaroni linguine alfredo Fiat fettuccine Maserati


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## Papa Adolfo's Take'n'Bake (Oct 23, 2020)

Serious question: What is meant by "Italian restrictions"? Is there actually a series of laws on the Italian books about archiving social media stupidity?


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## Null (Oct 23, 2020)

You can write OPs in Italian and I will move them to the International Clique when ready.


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## Fascist Ferret (Oct 23, 2020)

Papa Adolfo's Take'n'Bake said:


> Serious question: What is meant by "Italian restrictions"? Is there actually a series of laws on the Italian books about archiving social media stupidity?


Many people consider a site like this to be harassment or stalking... I wouldnt be surprised if there are restrictions in Italy that would make this legally questionable. I mean, are we still banned in New Zealand? And of course the French cant help but sperg at poor Null every once in a while.


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## Massa's Little Buckie (Oct 23, 2020)

Ravioli ravioli, give me the formuloni.


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## nya001 (Oct 23, 2020)

Papa Adolfo's Take'n'Bake said:


> Serious question: What is meant by "Italian restrictions"? Is there actually a series of laws on the Italian books about archiving social media stupidity?



Serious answer: yes, Italy doesn't have freedom of speech protection like in the United States. Saying anything that smells of "fascism is good" is a crime (6 months to 2 years prison + fine), being in favour of something illegal (not criminal, illegal) is a crime (up to five years with 2/3 increased sentence if committed through a computer) and damaging someone's reputation is a crime (6 months to 3 years when done through a public medium) unless what is stated is proved true. And there's no such thing as transformative use, fair use etc. And if they try to kill themselves it's 1 to 5 years, should they succeed 5 to 12.

So in Italy writing "lol this is a fat stupid cow" there means 6 months to 3 years unless you can prove they are fat, stupid with a doctor's certificate and an actual animal cow, plus the crime of suggesting to others they commit the crime of damaging someone's reputation (because posting here means other people will make fun of the cow).

Now "offending the reputation" needs someone to press charges, but "being in favour of something illegal" and "incitement to suicide (or attempt" do not, both are automatically prosecuted.

Even a mother-in-law offending a parent in front of the children commits the crime of damaging the reputation in public.

Oh and offending the "prestige" of a "public servant" (anyone from garbagemen to teachers to policemen) gets up to 3 years, so if the lolcow happens to work in a public library it's more trouble.

And a bunch of other "opinion crimes". Then consider it's EU/Schengen, make fun of an Italian lolcow, they take two aspirins, tell the police you offended them and they tried to kill themselves, you don't even know about it, go for a holiday in Belgium a year later and there's a nice warrant waiting for you whatever nationality you have. Maybe you get out of it eventually but you still paid for an expensive Italian lawyer.

Incidentally in Italy if someone burns the US flag they commit the crime of "offending the flag or the national symbol of a foreign country" and of course suggesting people do that is the additional crime of being in favour of something illegal.

And offending someone online is not a weird crime that is not prosecuted, the Italian equivalent of the Supreme Court reaffirmed it just last year, someone offended someone on FB and they were sentenced for it, getting the extra for committing it through a computer in public but not the double-augmentation for committing it in print.

So yes, many restrictions in Italy.


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## Papa Adolfo's Take'n'Bake (Oct 23, 2020)

nya001 said:


> Serious answer: yes, Italy doesn't have freedom of speech protection like in the United States. Saying anything that smells of "fascism is good" is a crime (6 months to 2 years prison + fine), being in favour of something illegal (not criminal, illegal) is a crime (up to five years with 2/3 increased sentence if committed through a computer) and damaging someone's reputation is a crime (6 months to 3 years when done through a public medium) unless what is stated is proved true. And there's no such thing as transformative use, fair use etc. And if they try to kill themselves it's 1 to 5 years, should they succeed 5 to 12.
> 
> So in Italy writing "lol this is a fat stupid cow" there means 6 months to 3 years unless you can prove they are fat, stupid with a doctor's certificate and an actual animal cow, plus the crime of suggesting to others they commit the crime of damaging someone's reputation (because posting here means other people will make fun of the cow).
> 
> ...


Holy shit, that's straight up dystopian. I knew it was bad in the EU, but had no idea it went to that kind of extreme.


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## Quioui (Oct 24, 2020)

Fascist Ferret said:


> of course the French cant help but sperg at poor Null every once in a while.


The CNIL have been bothering you guys? Can you cite an exemple please? I'm curious about it.


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## nya001 (Oct 24, 2020)

Papa Adolfo's Take'n'Bake said:


> Holy shit, that's straight up dystopian. I knew it was bad in the EU, but had no idea it went to that kind of extreme.



Well I don't know if it's EU-wide, but still in Italy before it was even worse, until 2006 it was a crime for an Italian citizen to say bad things about Italy abroad and to voice opinions in Italy that would "depress the national sentiment".

But consider that if someone is born there and grew up there, it's "normal", so for them "of course" you can't do all kinds of things, in the same way that for an American "of course" you can do them.

On the other hand anyone who says in Italy "ISIS good" commits the crime of promoting an organisation that "could" (note "which could", not which "does") "violently subvert" a State entity and that's 5 to 10 years.

Until 2006 this applied only to "socialist, communist or anarchic organisations", after 2006 to any.

And in fact, the Italian Penal Code would even punish rabid American left-wingers if they decided to meet in Italy and create trouble for Americans: terrorism includes "behaviour that could (note again "could") damage a country or an international entity and is done with the goal of intimidating the population or inducing authorities to commit or abstain from committing any act". Very broad definition and always possible to use.

Luckily in Italy they change governments as often as bedsheets so if they started to use these laws too broadly against each other everyone would be in prison but if they said in Italy "fuck the police" that's a few years in prison.

Actually in Italy BLM would also be illegal - committing "acts that can provoke (note again: "can") violence on racial grounds" are punished with six months to four years, while just promoting ideas that refer to these acts give up 18 months prison and being a member of an organisation that promotes these ideas, even not doing anything, carries the same penalty as committing the acts (6 months to 4 years).

Also since 1975, covering the face in public or doing anything that renders identification difficult *without a justified reason* carries 1 to 2 years prison.

Italy had lots of terrorism in the 1970s and freedom of expression was sacrificed for security, but for someone born after these laws were passed, it seems "obvious and normal" that these things are not allowed, that the police carry routinely submachine guns and that the military police also patrols streets (and they have separate emergency numbers).

So when in the US they complain about militarising the police, in Italy they don't need to do that, it's been done since forever.

(sources for what I said: just search for the current - 2020 - Italian penal code, the law of 1975 against covering the face and the law of 1993 against discrimination, these are not opinions, it's the plain text of the law)


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Oct 24, 2020)

How many Italians are actually on kiwi farms? there's nothing wrong with having an archive, but not much discussion is gonna happen if there's like 2 Italian-Kiwis out of 50k people. Hopefully the creation of the Italian section will make the site more popular in Italy so more Italians have the freedom to make fun of people online.


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## Fascist Ferret (Oct 24, 2020)

Quioui said:


> The CNIL have been bothering you guys? Can you cite an exemple please? I'm curious about it.


I'm not sure which French legal body harasses him, but Null mentions the french on the podcast "mad at the internet" every once in a while.


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## gnomo porcello (Nov 10, 2020)

as a fellow pastanigga i feel the need to add a little somthing


nya001 said:


> So yes, many restrictions in Italy.


we have so many laws and buerocracy for basically anything. creating almost an inescapable maze. thing is, this is italy, law is enforced _like a fucking circus_.
for example, if they can't manage to jail mafia leaders or extremely corrupt politicians, immagine how important is someone saying mean things.

of course there have been cases of people who actually got jailed/fined. usually only after a massive scandal or outcry in the media.
but here not even who makes the law takes it seriously.
take for example after fascism fell, new laws made it illegal to do the nazi/fascist salute in public, publicly advertise fascism and go around with fascist symbols. ( i described it very generally)
and yet its not the first time they find nazi flags in carabinieri station (similar to cops but a branch of the army) and casapound (a neonazist - fascist group) is a legit political party (a very minor one)

basically we are both extremely militarized and authoritarian and at the same time we have the organization of 2 blind rats in a box.
if you are unlucky, you get fucked, if you are lucky (and have a lot of true italian spirit) you can do whatever the fuck you want

poi il vernacoliere, che sorprendentemente ancora esiste, sarebbe estirpato immediatamente.


> In Italia ci sono numerosissime lolcows di tutti i tipi


beh, il profeta Matteo Montesi può essere un inizio. ma già ad esempio persone come Enrico Pratticò sono più meme che muoiono in un paio di mesi. per essere un lolcow devi almeno avere una presenza un po' più consistente? un intervista con Andrea Diprè non conta, diocan. ma anche lui potenziale lolcow???


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## Beluga (Nov 11, 2020)

Ah perché, abbiamo delle vere e proprie lolcow in Italia? La civiltà si avvicina sempre di più anche da noi.

Comunque se qualcuno apre un thread sarebbe figo, anche se abbiamo poche lolcow e durano poco.


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## gnomo porcello (Nov 12, 2020)

Beluga said:


> abbiamo delle vere e proprie lolcow in Italia?


mah in realtà non me ne viene in mente una davvero come quelle che hanno in america. in realtà probabilmente ne siamo pieni, solo poco convenzionali. meno lolcow, molti tipi strambi

me ne vengono in mente un paio anche in politica come il berlu e le sue puttane minorenni. ecc ecc


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## nya001 (Nov 12, 2020)

snuff sniffer said:


> mah in realtà non me ne viene in mente una davvero come quelle che hanno in america. in realtà probabilmente ne siamo pieni, solo poco convenzionali. meno lolcow, molti tipi strambi
> 
> me ne vengono in mente un paio anche in politica come il berlu e le sue puttane minorenni. ecc ecc


Quello sì, però non c'era Twitter etc. Cioè l'igienista dentale che poi gli fa a fare la troia in casa, la nomina alla regione e dice che una signorina, colta, di madrelingua inglese.

Poi ci sono vari grillini estremisti... ogni tanto ne vedo, però per fare una OP come si deve degna da prima della serie non ho tanto tempo adesso...


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## Uncle Warren (Nov 13, 2020)

The description of Italian defamation laws sounds very VERY similar to Germany's. Especially the part about the fascism.

*I wonder why.*


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## nya001 (Nov 15, 2020)

snuff sniffer said:


> as a fellow pastanigga i feel the need to add a little somthing
> 
> we have so many laws and buerocracy for basically anything. creating almost an inescapable maze. thing is, this is italy, law is enforced _like a fucking circus_.
> for example, if they can't manage to jail mafia leaders or extremely corrupt politicians, immagine how important is someone saying mean things.
> ...



This is interesting for non-Italians:

note how the post in Italian writes "diocan." - the poster self-censored "dio cane" (god dog) avoiding therefore to commit the offence of "insulting the divinity" (article 724 of the penal code, since 1999 not a crime, just an offence) carrying a fine of up to 309 euro.

@Cuddly Pirate :

Italian anti-fascist laws are actually laxer than German: in Italy it is possible to order 3 beers by raising the hand and using the three middle fingers (forbidden in Germany) as well as to say "with Italian greetings" while in Germany "with German greetings" is a crime.

In Germany it's very crazy, "foreigner" is a bad word, they are called "German citizens with a migration background".

Però tornando all'italiano, basta leggere un paio di giornali italiani per vedere come in Italia sono diventati scemi, cioè non è come in America che le lolcows si limitano a YouTube, in Italia sono elette e la gente si è abituata.

Loro hanno fatto Trump però in Italia quello del "ce l'ho duro" l'hanno fatto 20 anni prima. E il Berla è stato una specie di ante-Trump. In Italia sono già oltre, il Grillo GEOTUS che si fa i voti su internet quando vuole contati da chi vuole e dice decide la base e sempre zitti e abbozzano.

Forse per questo manca la thread italiana, in Italia le lolcows sono così comuni che nessuno ci fa caso. E poi se traduci cose italiane in inglese non ci credono:

The Italian Prime Minister appointed his Tax Lawyer as minister of the economy. As part of his anti-corruption drive, making fake balance sheets was no longer a crime and the investigation was dropped. Several laws were passed decriminalising the behaviour of the Prime Minister.

The Italian Prime Minister was filmed meeting a Mafia Boss and kissing him on the cheek. This was not a crime as the court took too long to decide and eventually said it happened too long ago.

The Italian Prime Minister hired a Mafia Boss as his horse-keeper and paid him large sums of money. He had a network of whores paid regularly. An underage whore had been caught by tbe police and was released after a phone call claimed she was the niece of the ruler of Egypt.

back to English, this what the "MSM" publish in Italy:









						Radio Maria: "Il coronavirus è un complotto sotto l'impulso di Satana"
					

Il direttore dell'emittente, don Livio Fanzaga: "Questa epidemia è un progetto del demonio che attraverso menti criminali prepara un colpo di S…




					www.repubblica.it
				




La Repubblica ( www.repubblica.it ) is a left-wingish very mainstream newspaper, and the director of a very big religious radio station says the virus is a conspiracy created by the devil. This is reported without any comment, as normal Italian news. The priest says that the Covid is a plan which he "always attributed to the devil which acts through criminal minds for a sanitary or media coup-d'Etat" to build the "world of Satan, in which we would be zombies".

Now this is not a small radio station, it's a very big national station which the clever pope (head of state of a country) could just order to retract. It's not like a weird pastor in a village. It's like a MSM Catholic radio station


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## Cavalier Cipolla (Feb 24, 2021)

Fascist Ferret said:


> This isnt good enough?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some people who get persistently prank called by Lo Zoo di 105 (an Italian radio show) could be lolcow material. The most intriguing one would be some dude from Treviso who calls himself Toni Spada (not sure if it's his real name, since there seem to be several people with that name) aka Bestemmiaman. So far what we (except the guy who gave his number) know, that he's a truck driver, satanist and likes to do coke. And he is from Treviso. He loses his temper REALLY quickly and starts yelling and swearing in his local dialect.


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## Beluga (Feb 24, 2021)

Cavalier Cipolla said:


> Some people who get persistently prank called by Lo Zoo di 105 (an Italian radio show) could be lolcow material. The most intriguing one would be some dude from Treviso who calls himself Toni Spada (not sure if it's his real name, since there seem to be several people with that name) aka Bestemmiaman. So far what we (except the guy who gave his number) know, that he's a truck driver, satanist and likes to do coke. And he is from Treviso. He loses his temper REALLY quickly and starts yelling and swearing in his local dialect.


Speaking of radio, La Zanzara di Cruciari seems to be a magnet for lolcows. Cruciari himself is lolcowish IMHO.


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## Cavalier Cipolla (Feb 24, 2021)

Beluga said:


> Speaking of radio, La Zanzara di Cruciari seems to be a magnet for lolcows. Cruciari himself is lolcowish IMHO.


Likewise, the Zoo di 105 parody of the show, La Zecca, is a similar magnet for lolcows as well. Some don't even realize they aren't talking to Cruciani. Nevertheless, Bestemmiaman is definitely something next level. I'm really curious about his backstory. He could be living in his truck, since nobody came out anywhere about some crazy neighbour yelling and cursing on the phone. They've been trolling him since 2011 apparently.


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