# Why do you lean left?



## Dave. (Jan 12, 2021)

If there's any left leaning users on this site, I'm curious to know why you lean this way. No hatred from me and no I'm not accusing you of any of the actions that have happened recently in America, I'm curious what policies you agree with and why.


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## Peter Ballons (Jan 12, 2021)

I like blue better than red thats why


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## Syaoran Li (Jan 12, 2021)

I'm not left-leaning anymore, but I am liberal and used to vote Dem and it's because the Right generally fucking sucks, especially the social conservatives, the "traditionalist" edgelords who sperg about "hurr durr what r we conserving?" and LARP as an autistic Catholic recolor of the Protestant fundie rednecks of yesteryear, and the neocons who bankrolled said fundie rednecks of yesteryear.

I've jokingly referred to myself as a centrist, but that's mainly because I don't fit in with either right or left or even the center as they currently exist. At most, I'd be a centrist by default but I'd say the proper term would be "politically homeless"

The Yahwehists, neocons, Q Tards, unironic incels, and wignats on the Right are a total embarassment and are just the equally stupid and malevolent but more impotent and less powerful counterpart to the atheists, communists, anarchists, socialists, radfems, femcel dykes, troons, Injun savages, Wiccans, urban bugmen, beardos, dangerhairs, woke punks, and black supremacists on the Left.

I'm not even fond of the center either, to be honest.


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## starborn427614 (Jan 12, 2021)

I don't really care what others are doing with their lives so long as it's not hurting anybody, so it's the one that makes the most sense to me. I'm center-left though so I can't really agree with those too far left on a number of issues.


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## L50LasPak (Jan 12, 2021)

Before I gave up on trying to have a recognizable political position altogether, I "leaned" left because it seemed to me, for the most part, being conservative required you to uphold a certain set of values and uphold all of them. This was before the days where having any one random conservative opinion made you an evil Nazi who wants to repeal abortion. Even if you had say, 2/3rds conservative opinions, actual conservatives still wouldn't give you the time of day because you had to really tow the line if you wanted to fit in. 

This dynamic led a lot of people (including myself) to identify as liberal or left-leaning. I don't think a lot of people have really re-examined that stance, and for a lot of younger people like millenials you're bound to find something you disagree with in the oldschool conservative rhetoric that is still going to turn you off all of these years later.


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## Subtle (Jan 12, 2021)

I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else. Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive. It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.


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## Kenya Jones (Jan 12, 2021)

Dave. said:


> If there's any left leaning users on this site, I'm curious to know why you lean this way. No hatred from me and no I'm not accusing you of any of the actions that have happened recently in America, I'm curious what policies you agree with and why.


All of them left when the IP leaks happened.
Posts in the lolcow.farms thread on KF almost 3 years ago.


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## Reverend (Jan 12, 2021)

The left is full of insane people who want the gov't to run everything for them because they can't think for themselves.

The right is full of insane people who want Lord God Jesus to run everything for them because they can't think for themselves.

Introspection is lost on fanatics.


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## Dave. (Jan 12, 2021)

Subtle said:


> I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else. Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive. It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.


The concern I have with Socialism is how do you address the big elephant in the room being 'human behavior'? Humans naturally want to accrue as much resources as possible and more and they hunt for incentives that will benefit them and them alone. Do you try to rewire human nature? Because I don't know if that's possible unless you're talking the eastern countries which base themselves on religion like Confucianism (and even then).


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

To add what @Syaoran Li said: 

Remember when the Religious Right took over every aspect of life in the 70s and 80s? The 90s were a counterculture to that control. Not even "left-leaning" per se, just people were tired of being told what and how to act.

Bush mainly inspired me that the GOP were war-mongering criminals and the DNC were sane. Not to mention that many right-leaning people are older White people where "conservatism" meant "keep other races at a distance."

Having said that, the Left now is damn near unrecognizable from the 2000s. Corporate bootlicking, social justice, de facto segregation of race and sex, political censorship, outright cancel culture dictating who is "good" or "evil."

I considered myself left-leaning as a counterculture AND equal opportunities for all. My principles still remain more or less the same, but they don't universally fit in one box anymore. 

So what AM I?


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## Rorschach Test (Jan 12, 2021)

I identify with the left, far outside of the spectrum acceptable within US politics. I hold elected Democrats in as much (if not more) contempt than Republicans. 

The primary “logical” reason I identify with the left is because capitalism is an insanely bad system. It’s sending us into climate catastrophe, it’s insanely wasteful, and it has most people squandering their talents working 40-hour weeks to make some rich asshole even richer. The “emotional” reason is probably a deep-seeded, visceral dislike of unfairness. Injustice pisses me off. 

I think everyone has a mix of “logical” and “emotional” reasons for their political leanings. We may not always have a comprehensive understanding of what the major reasons are, but we can probably make a decent guess.


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## Dave. (Jan 12, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> To add what @Syaoran Li said:
> 
> Remember when the Religious Right took over every aspect of life in the 70s and 80s? The 90s were a counterculture to that control. Not even "left-leaning" per se, just people were tired of being told what and how to act.
> 
> ...


One thing I find interesting is the left of yesterday is the right of today. Right leaning people (at least the ones on YouTube) are equal opportunity and equity and anti-censorship and the far left of today are pro-censorship and more equality for others. It's odd how people throw away principles of old and instead adopt the more 'popular'. Adaptive politics, is that a real term?


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

Dave. said:


> One thing I find interesting is the left of yesterday is the right of today. Right leaning people (at least the ones on YouTube) are equal opportunity and equity and anti-censorship and the far left of today are pro-censorship and more equality for others. It's odd how people throw away principles of old and instead adopt the more 'popular'. Adaptive politics, is that a real term?


Here's another reason that makes more sense. I wanted to make friends and make a tangible difference. So I just went along with it.


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## Subtle (Jan 12, 2021)

Dave. said:


> The concern I have with Socialism is how do you address the big elephant in the room being 'human behavior'? Humans naturally want to accrue as much resources as possible and more and they hunt for incentives that will benefit them and them alone. Do you try to rewire human nature? Because I don't know if that's possible unless you're talking the eastern countries which base themselves on religion like Confucianism (and even then).


The entire shtick of market-oriented policies is that they pre-suppose what human nature is and incentivize certain behaviors (e.g. cupidity.) to the detriment of  other human traits. I don't believe everyone is predisposed to accumulating wealth, nor that anyone has to "re-wire" their so-called "human nature" considering that a lot of their behavior is socially conditioned, not innate.


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## OfficerBagget (Jan 12, 2021)

Weve gotten to a point where anyone considered centrist is considered left leaning.

I'm all for guns right.
And I'm all for pro choice.
I'm open for gays and trannies to go through legally binding marriage. 
And I'm open for the right of anyone to express their opinion about it.

Theres a picture painted about the left as hyper screeching and canceling but when it comes to policy they can be more willing to make compromises when you break down each individual on the left.


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## Sperghetti (Jan 12, 2021)

Dave. said:


> One thing I find interesting is the left of yesterday is the right of today. Right leaning people (at least the ones on YouTube) are equal opportunity and equity and anti-censorship and the far left of today are pro-censorship and more equality for others. It's odd how people throw away principles of old and instead adopt the more 'popular'. Adaptive politics, is that a real term?


It’s lead me to realize that many people didn’t sincerely hold those principles in the first place, at least not in any real capacity. They _claimed_ to hold them, but in reality, they weren’t actually concerned about the meaning of those principles as much as they were concerned about being seen as “a good person” to others. When the criteria for “good person” changed, so did their principles.


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## Clown Baby (Jan 12, 2021)

Because gays should be allowed to get married and women should be allowed to have abortions. But I'm also pro-gun, against government handouts for insert oppressive reason, and think about 3/4 of trans people are just mentally ill. People on both sides would say I'm a "fence sitter," which really means I'm someone who can think for myself.


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## Shield Breaker (Jan 12, 2021)

I don't know what I am anymore. I used to be able to say I was a southern democrat, and it was clear: socially conservative on a personal level, but liberal on an economical and interpersonal level. Now I'm told I am a right-wing chud because I think the left has shit the bed. They've become what we hated back in the 90s: pro-war, pro-corporations, and pro-censorship. I'm also a bigot because the idea of a huge dude sharing the bathroom with me or my daughter freaks me out.



Clown Baby said:


> women should be allowed to have abortions


Abortion is like a microcosm of the modern left. It used to be understood you supported the right to do it, but it was a necessary evil, so to speak. Now, they're fucking giddy about doing it.


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## LargeChoonger (Jan 12, 2021)

I don't know. It just kind of hangs that way when it's flaccid and I can't do anything about it


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

I was considered anti-gun for a time. That failed Texas church shooting some time ago changed my mind.


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## Reverend (Jan 12, 2021)

OfficerBagget said:


> Weve gotten to a point where anyone considered centrist is considered left leaning.
> 
> I'm all for guns right.
> And I'm all for pro choice.
> ...



You are now considering a right wing nazi for all those views.

amazing how that works.


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## Rorschach Test (Jan 12, 2021)

Reverend said:


> You are now considering a right wing nazi for all those views.
> 
> amazing how that works.


Am I misreading you, or are you saying there are a lot of pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage nazis?


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## Wayneright (Jan 12, 2021)

People need to remind themselves more frequently that "left" and "right" are a false dichotomy perpetuated by a meddling, colluding uni-party comprised exclusively of banking family minions.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jan 12, 2021)

Wayneright said:


> People need to remind themselves more frequently that "left" and "right" are a false dichotomy perpetuated by a meddling, colluding uni-party comprised exclusively of banking family minions.


reject partisanship
embrace nazbol


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## starborn427614 (Jan 12, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> I was considered anti-gun for a time. That failed Texas church shooting some time ago changed my mind.


As a bong gun stuff is alien to me anyway, but it's still a deadly weapon and should be treated with respect. There should be more checks at a base level (especially on the mental health side of things) if only help stem the tide if nothing else. Banning guns entirely would never work, nor does it need to happen if people in general are smarter about how they handle their weapons.


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

starborn427614 said:


> As a bong gun stuff is alien to me anyway, but it's still a deadly weapon and should be treated with respect. There should be more checks at a base level (especially on the mental health side of things) if only help stem the tide if nothing else. Banning guns entirely would never work, nor does it need to happen if people in general are smarter about how they handle their weapons.


Mental health has been an issue often ignored in America for decades. Pills and such are used as a band-aid to a bigger problem.


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## The Curmudgeon (Jan 12, 2021)

I used to be a leftist. There were many things that disillusioned me over the years. One of those things was identity politics. They abandoned egalitarianism, then decided that racism, bigotry, and xenophobia are only bad when white people do it. Straight white men in particular became public enemy number one. So now the left fully endorses hate as long as it's the right people doing the hating. They also replaced the idea of equality with equity. Equal opportunity and equality before the law were no longer good enough. White guilt and privileges for white women, minorities, and immigrants became the new mantra of the left. The biggest, and saddest, irony is that while the left claims to hate what they perceive as "white male privilege," they also hypocritically push for privileges for everyone else. What makes it worse is that none of these aforementioned people are held to any of these lofty left-liberal standards. For example, they don't care if blacks are racist to Latinos and Asians. Likewise, it's no big deal that black churchs and Muslims are religious fundamentalists because at least they're not white men! This is even more insiduous with their whole "cultural appropriation" bullshit. Never mind that cultural diffusion is a normal part of human society and history. Never mind that in a multicultural society that people are bound to share and borrow their customs, traditions, and ideas. Everyone must keep to their own kind no matter what though, because, according to the left, it's colonialism or whatever nonsense they're spewing.

In addition to the above, they use identity politics as an excuse to do other authoritarian actions such as censorship, personality cults, doublethink, thought policing, historical negationism, collective punishment, and anti-intellectualism. They have their own excuses, but they're now doing the same shit they claimed they hated the right for doing. It's not okay and it never will be. What made this worse is that it wasn't just a far left thing. The so-called center left, which the Democrats claim to be, also promote this bullshit. The whole goddamn liberal-left spectrum is awful. Everything is offensive and problematic to these people. I've said this before and I'll say it again, they want to turn our society into a sterile totalitarian hugbox. They want totalitarian control over popular culture and people's private lives. They want to erase history too. One thing they share in common with the right is their aversion to individuality too by the way. You must conform and be a part of the collective! How dare you ask questions, disagree, or think in any capacity!

Then there's the structural matters, such as economics. They unironically believe that going full socialist/communist is a panacea to all our problems. Most of them really do want to take away any type of private ownership. Personally, I still think some very limited forms of common ownership can be okay, but these people want to collectivize or nationalize nearly everything and that's ridiculous. This is just as awful as them micromanaging people's thoughts and popular culture. It's like Frank Zappa said, people want to own things!

To be fair, I don't consider myself  a conservative or rightist. There are still things I disagree with the right about. For instance, I'm staunchly atheist and support science and technology. Despite that, I love religious studies, including Christianity, and support freedom of religion.  I know science and technology aren't perfect and can be politicized like anything else. Also, I'm aware that big business can be a corrupting influence on those too. I'm also a civil libertarian, so naturally I don't like it when the right pushes for authoritarianism. On the same note, I find so-called white collectivism just as cringey and stupid as socialism and communism. Another thing both sides share in common is their hatred for dissent. Neither want you to question authority, whether it's tradtional or revolutionary authority. The right doesn't want you to question tradition, but on the same note the left doesn't want you to question change. I know the left generally likes to claim that change is inherently good, but history shows that change is not always good or necessary. Likewise, tradition isn't always bad or unnecessary.

These days I consider myself an independent. I feel awkward calling myself a centrist only because it has the connotation of being a fence-sitter which I am not. I very much have strong beliefs. I just have a hodgepodge of beliefs that can fall under either category.

*TLDR: The left became the regressive left and alienated me. I am an independent with a mix of beliefs. Thank you for reading my long sperg-out if you did. It could have been longer, but I'm not going to bore you guys with a quasi-manifesto.*


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## Reverend (Jan 12, 2021)

Rorschach Test said:


> Am I misreading you, or are you saying there are a lot of pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage nazis?


Nope.  If you have any "Right wing" thoughts you are therefore a nazi regardless .

Pro-choice and Pro-Gay are accepted in some circles of the conservative circles and/or modern day Republican party (Gays yes for sure).  The irony is that both of these were so ingrained into the Democratic Party (Liberal/Left) that it was a given that if you believed in either you were considered a Liberal Democrat.


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## All Cops Are Based (Jan 12, 2021)

Kenya Jones said:


> All of them left when the IP leaks happened.
> Posts in the lolcow.farms thread on KF almost 3 years ago.
> View attachment 1843401
> View attachment 1843403


triple H is probably sweating a little about you posting this screencap


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## Kenya Jones (Jan 12, 2021)

All Cops Are Based said:


> triple H is probably sweating a little about you posting this screencap


Why do you say this?


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## Yuuichirou Kumada (Jan 12, 2021)

Scoliosis does that when left untreated.


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## Dom Cruise (Jan 12, 2021)

Because I still the think the core tenet of treating everyone with dignity and respect regardless of their differences has value.

The trouble is the left today has abandoned that and are hardcore hypocrites, it's ok to treat people like absolute fucking garbage so long as they have the "wrong" opinions, then they can be just as racist, sexist and bigoted as they want.

It's so on it's face wrong and yet almost the entirety of the left has fallen prey to it, you're treated like the bad guy for calling out this hypocrisy, it really makes me feel pessimistic sometimes and wonder if mankind is basically doomed, that it's only a matter of time before we destroy ourselves in some apocalyptic scale war because we simply do not know how to treat each other right.


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## Sperghetti (Jan 12, 2021)

Reverend said:


> The irony is that both of these were so ingrained into the Democratic Party (Liberal/Left) that it was a given that if you believed in either you were considered a Liberal Democrat.


And many people who are mentally stuck in the Bush administration _still_ believe this.

Hell, I think this thought pattern is exactly how some people get bullied into accepting (or at the very least, not outright rejecting) idpol shit:
1. If you're pro-choice and have no problem with homosexuality, then you must be a liberal.
2. If you're a liberal, you must _also_ accept identity politics, critical race theory, etc.
3. If you _don't_ accept these things, you're one of those evil conservatives.
4. If you're a conservative, then you hate women and gay people.
5. If you don't hate women and gay people, see Point 1.

Point 1 is so deeply embedded into their skulls that they can't break away from the rest of it.


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## Drag-on Knight 91873 (Jan 12, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Because I still the think the core tenet of treating everyone with dignity and respect regardless of their differences has value.
> 
> The trouble is the left today has abandoned that and are hardcore hypocrites, it's ok to treat people like absolute fucking garbage so long as they have the "wrong" opinions, then they can be just as racist, sexist and bigoted as they want.
> 
> It's so on it's face wrong and yet almost the entirety of the left has fallen prey to it, you're treated like the bad guy for calling out this hypocrisy, it really makes me feel pessimistic sometimes and wonder if mankind is basically doomed, that it's only a matter of time before we destroy ourselves in some apocalyptic scale war because we simply do not know how to treat each other right.


That's just the Left. Regular people will nope out and lol at their insanity. I'd rather check their insanity, but we have to make do unless you're talking about illegal means.


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## Dom Cruise (Jan 12, 2021)

Sperghetti said:


> And many people who are mentally stuck in the Bush administration _still_ believe this.
> 
> Hell, I think this thought pattern is exactly how some people get bullied into accepting (or at the very least, not outright rejecting) idpol shit:
> 1. If you're pro-choice and have no problem with homosexuality, then you must be a liberal.
> ...


I've seen that phenomena with a lot of older liberals, people who are stuck in the Dubya years.

They've seen conservatives as the bad guys for so long and made opposition to them such a core part of their identity that they can't even begin to comprehend that the "bad guys" were maybe not as bad as they thought or they don't have the guts to admit it, so they're forced to accept whatever crazy bullshit the modern left pushes without question.



Drag-on Knight 91873 said:


> That's just the Left. Regular people will nope out and lol at their insanity. I'd rather check their insanity, but we have to make do unless you're talking about illegal means.


I was making a wider statement about the human condition in general, since we seen now just how fallible human nature in general truly is.


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## Prophetic Spirit (Jan 12, 2021)

Well, first of all; i not born with a nice economic situation in my country, i'm not too poor either, more like the "low-to-middle class" or something like that.

I'm not too fondle with ideologies thought, i always see Blue & Red, Left & Right, East & West (whatever you call those concepts) more like the same shit but with different approaches, and either way always fuck up the society.

But... probably i can share more inclination in the Left rather than the Right only for not being conservative in my thoughts, but i don't have identification either.


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

I cannot stress this enough. Sexualization needs to be moderated within reason. 

I don't care of you like the same sex, don't be flamboyant about it.


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## Reverend (Jan 12, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> I cannot stress this enough. Sexualization needs to be moderated within reason.
> 
> I don't care of you like the same sex, don't be flamboyant about it.



If I can't proclaim how much dick I suck and/or take it up the ass loud and proud while dilating I am being discriminated and/or persecuted against by nazi racist homophobes. --  Twitter User

I miss the days where everyone kept their shit to themselves instead of declaring to the world who they sleep with and why they are a special and everyone who disagrees with them is the epidemy of the devil.


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

Reverend said:


> If I can't proclaim how much dick I suck and/or take it up the ass loud and proud while dilating I am being discriminated and/or persecuted against by nazi racist homophobes. --  Twitter User
> 
> I miss the days where everyone kept their shit to themselves instead of declaring to the world who they sleep with and why they are a special and everyone who disagrees with them is the epidemy of the devil.


Remember that Playboy's are considered misogynistic. Those handled sex with more respect compared to say the "body positivity" movement.


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## Reverend (Jan 12, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> Remember that Playboy's are considered misogynistic. Those handled sex with more respect compared to say the "body positivity" movement.



You can't even look at beautiful women these days without being hated on for appreciating a gorgeous body.   

I'm shocked Hooters is still around.


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## The Last Stand (Jan 12, 2021)

Reverend said:


> You can't even look at beautiful women these days without being hated on for appreciating a gorgeous body.
> 
> I'm shocked Hooters is still around.


Hey, I like a nice pack of abs as much as a curved figure.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 12, 2021)

Subtle said:


> I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else. Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive. It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.


You could just live outside those cities or get a degree aiming for a specific high paying job. Being highly educated is meaningless if your major was gender theory or something like that.



The Last Stand said:


> I was considered anti-gun for a time. That failed Texas church shooting some time ago changed my mind.


Me too, I used to hate guns. The riots this summer are what changed my mind, now I'm a ghoul who thinks it should be legal to kill people if you catch them trying to vandalize your property.



Reverend said:


> You are now considering a right wing nazi for all those views.
> 
> amazing how that works.


Clown world.


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## Milkis (Jan 12, 2021)

I fell the corner of a table in 2nd grade, and some tendon or muscle on the left side of my dick healed funny. Maybe scar tissue? I have to turn slightly to the right to line the stream up at urinals.


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## Pee Cola (Jan 12, 2021)

Reverend said:


> Pro-choice and Pro-Gay are accepted in some circles of the conservative circles and/or modern day Republican party (Gays yes for sure).  The irony is that both of these were so ingrained into the Democratic Party (Liberal/Left) that it was a given that if you believed in either you were considered a Liberal Democrat.


Fun fact: In the 2017 Australian Same-Sex Marriage Plebiscite, the 8 higest "No" voting electorates were held by Labor.  This is significant because Labor is considered the more progressive party of the Australian two-party system.  Meanwhile, around half of the top 10 "Yes" voting electorates were Liberal; which - despite its name - is part of the conservative LNP Coalition that's been in power since 2013.

Whilst the media down here has done its best to try and introduce the same partisanship that's infected the USA (gg Rupert), outside of a few loudmouths on each side of the fence, not that many people down here are buying into it. Most people down here generally don't tell others who they vote for, and - in a lot of cases - won't stick with one party for their entire voting life.



Spoiler: Example of a swinging voter.  Contains UnAustralian behaviour



I find the LNP pretty ordinary (though less bad than they were pre-pandemic, when they were fucking abysmal) at a Federal level, and have only voted for them once (1996).  At state level, it's Liberal all the way for me.  In my state, Labor is controlled by its hard right faction.  Said faction is made up of conservative Catholics and the state branch of Australia's shittiest union, and are the pack of world-class cockheads one can imagine.



As for me, I'll put it the same way that an older gentleman I know once described it.  This chap, who is one of the nicest people I've ever met, is a paid-up member of the Liberal Party, yet we agree on many things relating to current and future social and economic challenges faced by Australia.  He sees the political spectrum as a clock, with 12 o'clock being dead centre.  He describes me as "5 to 12", whereas he's "5 past 12".  A simple but effective metaphor that all but the biggest autist can easily visualise, and a very fair call IMO.


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## Ridge Racer (Jan 12, 2021)

I did use to be Democrat. I supported gay marriage, was okay with people owning guns, and was pretty neutral on abortion (didn't know if I was morally okay with it, but felt how I felt about the issue shouldn't affect if people are allowed to do it). I didn't like Republicans (and still don't like Repub. politicans- in fact, I may hate them more now than ever. Not necessarily their voters.) 

However, the Democratic Party and a fair amount of their voting base has lost their minds. Now they support war, censorship, "unpersoning" others for holding the "wrong" opinions. It's sickening. Not even mentioning recently their support for the so-called "peaceful protesters" of Antifa burning down their cities and those strong people of color looting stores, while calling the rioters at Capitol "terrorists" and planning to censor anyone with a right-leaning political view. Don't get me wrong, the "Right" would likely do the same thing if they were the ones with power (much like the Religious Right of the '90s), but Republicans seem to be more interested in being the "graceful losers" (emphasis on the words "losers") if it means maintaining the status quo and lining up their own pockets with tax payer money. It's people's distaste for the "status quo" that enabled Trump to be president in the first place, but people don't seem to see that (or perhaps they refuse to see that). 

Sorry for my rant. Thank you.


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## Subtle (Jan 12, 2021)

💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> You could just live outside those cities or get a degree aiming for a specific high paying job. Being highly educated is meaningless if your major was gender theory or something like that.


Many Americans (about eighty percent) live in urban areas out of economic necessities and not by choice.  Having degrees for a specific high salary job is no longer a given. STEM, Law, Business degrees are all entwined by their outrageous costs and elitism. They're exclusionary, not inclusionary and are often not a guarantee for attaining a high paying job, both because they're oversaturated and because you will require extracellular activities (a so-called "job experience" that really means fuck-all) in your resume to be accepted into a high paying job. TL;DR here is that Neo-Liberalism will probably fuck you over by design.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 12, 2021)

Subtle said:


> Many Americans (about eighty percent) live in urban areas out of economic necessities and not by choice.  Having degrees for a specific high salary job is no longer a given. STEM, Law, Business degrees are all entwined by their outrageous costs and elitism. They're exclusionary, not inclusionary and are often not a guarantee for attaining a high paying job, both because they're oversaturated and because you will require extracellular activities (a so-called "job experience" that really means fuck-all) in your resume to be accepted into a high paying job. TL;DR here is that Neo-Liberalism will probably fuck you over by design.


Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess people who live below a certain level of income are pretty screwed when it comes to social mobility. One solution would be for them to band together and use their combined income to benefit their group as a whole. Make a tribe and work hard to better your group's situation over the course of decades.

I don't think socialism the answer. Giving the poor money doesn't mean they'll actually do anything with it-- in some socialist countries, many people choose not to work because they can leech off the taxes of those who do work. They're content staying poor.


Not to mention that government officials like to skim off people's taxes. It's a system in which the ruling class and the lazy benefit and people who work need to work twice as hard to move up in the world.


----------



## AMHOLIO (Jan 12, 2021)

I'm a bleeding heart like my blue parents.  Traditional right wing views are fine as long as someone isn't yelling everyone should live like them - its the same principle a lot of rightwingers have towards the left.  

I still lean left, but by questioning a narrative in some circles I cannot be called left.  I have a feeling that a lot of people on all sides of the political spectrum here might feel the same: you don't come to this site because you go with the grain, you come for sherlock holmes autism, TRUE and HONEST content, and the chance to insult people and get it out of your system rather than to fester and be passive aggressive mad.  Whether your family wonders why you can't accept all tenants of god or why you won't donate to the cause(tm) of whatever lives mattering, it sucks when people don't think you're on the team/tribe when you wonder something aloud.


----------



## Massa's Little Buckie (Jan 12, 2021)

The stupid political compass tests put me in the center-left, but I have no idea where I stand. I'm not well versed in politics.

Like most people that posted, most of the things I believe in will make me literally Hitler in the eyes of the left, but at the same time, I don't fit in with the right.


----------



## Subtle (Jan 12, 2021)

💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I guess people who live below a certain level of income are pretty screwed when it comes to social mobility. One solution would be for them to band together and use their combined income to benefit their group as a whole. Make a tribe and work hard to better your group's situation over the course of decades.
> 
> I don't think socialism the answer. Giving the poor money doesn't mean they'll actually do anything with it-- in some socialist countries, many people choose not to work because they can leech off the taxes of those who do work. They're content staying poor.
> 
> View attachment 1844462


We have had such tribes in history, namely the Jews and look how they've being treated for being a well-off minority. I can concede that someone will likely abuse of socialism (or welfare systems) while staying unemployed. However, in the case of Nordic countries (or even Anglo-Saxons for that matter) having social nets aimed at lifting people from abject poverty hasn't resulted in higher unemployment, so I believe that most people do want to work and have a purposeful life. 

With that being said, I am happy to agree to disagree. Thank you for the conversation!


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 12, 2021)

Subtle said:


> We have had such tribes in history, namely the Jews and look how they've being treated for being a well-off minority. I can concede that someone will likely abuse of socialism (or welfare systems) while staying unemployed. However, in the case of Nordic countries (or even Anglo-Saxons for that matter) having social nets aimed at lifting people from abject poverty hasn't resulted in higher unemployment, so I believe that most people do want to work and have a purposeful life.
> 
> With that being said, I am happy to agree to disagree. Thank you for the conversation!



Yep. Hatred of Jews is really just anger at the ruling class. What the left calls the bourgeoisie being corrupt, the right calls the Jews engaging in Jewry. If some other tribe took over no doubt they'd be at the receiving end of the same kind of salt. 



I don't know much about socialism in Nordic countries, it's possible they've done something to actually make it work.


----------



## Rorschach Test (Jan 12, 2021)

Daddy's Little Kitten said:


> Like most people that posted, most of the things I believe in will make me literally Hitler in the eyes of the left, but at the same time, I don't fit in with the right.



The exaggerated version of “leftism” (to the limited extent it retains any of the fundamentals) that is displayed by so many of the exceptional individuals who are documented here does not correspond very closely to leftism-in-fact. I mean just imagine MovieBob attending a meeting with community activists, let alone linking up with Naxalites or other hardened third-world badasses.

Commitment to an egalitarian distribution of resources and worker self-determination predates the performative anti-gamergate movement. God willing, it will outlast it, as well.

edit to avoid double-posting:



💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> I don't know much about socialism in Nordic countries, it's possible they've done something to actually make it work.



To me, part of the Nordic approach is that they’re not quite as socialist as either their supporters or detractors would like to believe. Norway took their oil profits and put a fuckton of money into the state’s sovereign wealth fund. They’re basically making smart bets on the global stock market and using the investment income to fund their social safety net. So despite having those genuine commitments to taking care of their poor citizens, their success is linked to the capitalist global market. Same way China (post-Deng) is more pragmatic and tolerates private market functions to an extent, letting billionaires accrue lots of wealth, etc., so long as they keep from being too strong.


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## X Prime (Jan 12, 2021)

Please define "left leaning" for the purposes of this topic, if you would.

If it's socially liberal but economically conservative, then that marks one as one of the false left, the neoliberal who has caused so much disaster in the world.

If it's economically liberal, and manages to be so based on class without a whiff of anything else resembling identity politics, than that is legitimate left. Social issues are a smokescreen.


----------



## OrionBalls (Jan 12, 2021)

Because my left leg is shorter.

But in reality, I lean a little to the left because while I'm not the biggest fan of paying higher taxes to support people who can't be arsed to get a job, I understand what it is like to feel like you won't ever get ahead, especially when it comes to medical debt and education costs. Everyone deserves an honest shot, and I think that some of the more liberal ideas like basic medical insurance being affordable to slightly over minimum wage workers and education not costing as much as a house make that a lot more possible.


----------



## The Curmudgeon (Jan 12, 2021)

Sometimes, I feel like maybe the old definitions of left and right are becoming irrelevant if they're not already. Horseshoe theory feels a lot like a fact these days. I wish I had the wisdom to think of new terms and designations, but I'll leave that someone who cares about it more than I do.


----------



## CreamyHerman’s (Jan 12, 2021)

I used to be more liberal up until seeing how Obama took a dump on the Iranian election crisis in 2009 and now I just want to see the federal guv’ment dissolved


----------



## X Prime (Jan 12, 2021)

SuudsuAddict said:


> Sometimes, I feel like maybe the old definitions of left and right are becoming irrelevant if they're not already. Horseshoe theory feels a lot like a fact these days. I wish I had the wisdom to think of new terms and designations, but I'll leave that someone who cares about it more than I do.


It's already been done: the two axes of social issues and economic issues.

Most people who claim to be left-wing are only social left, which means things like pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQ, pro-identity politics, etc.

Somehow, however, most people who fall into social leftism tend to be economically conservative, very FYGM, don't want to hang around poor people, et cetera. Often-cited example is someone like Samantha Bee who didn't want her kids' school integrated yet is somehow considered left-wing.

Economic liberals, who honestly believe in programs that actually lift every citizen (instead of special interest groups and only when it doesn't actually hurt themselves) out of poverty are extremely rare.

Both parties in US politics are economic conservatives, not true leftists. They only differ on social wedge issues as described above.


----------



## Ralph from Chicago (Jan 13, 2021)

Unions. Republicans actively work against the labor movement. Democrats do not.

Unions are the best institution we have to address societal problems without government. Low wages is the obvious one. Want health insurance? Unions. Upward mobility for low-wage non-college educated white? unions. Want to do something about the black unemployment rate? Opioid epidemic? Low marriage rates? Organized working class participation in electoral politics? Unions solve everything.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Jan 13, 2021)

Peter Ballons said:


> I like blue better than red thats why


blue is the conservative colour


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## kittyfucker (Jan 13, 2021)

The weird thing is is that I agree with a fuckton of liberal politics - anti-military, anti-religion, pro-choice, pro-LGB... but modern liberalism is just so unbelievably fucking aggravating. No, I don't want to hear about how your OnlyFans is empowering (it isn't) or how trannyism is progressive (it isn't) or how we need to dismantle the random-shit-that-you-just-decided-exists-suddenly among other bullshit, but I also don't want to hear about how we're all entitled to guns and being all anti-divorce pro-traditionalism and how The Niggers suck ETC 
grain of salt, however, i'm canadian and gun violence is essentially unheard of
I _prefer_ liberalism because. between choosing one of two mounds of manure, I think I'd just barely prefer the one that caters more to me because EVERYTHING IS MEANT TO BE MADE FOR ME SPECIFICALLY AND CATERED TO MY PERSONAL LIKES AND DISLIKES


Spoiler



Also something something the delusion of free choice so nothing ever changes


----------



## Frostnipped Todger (Jan 13, 2021)

Left and right are two ends of the same dog turd.


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 13, 2021)

Rorschach Test said:


> The exaggerated version of “leftism” (to the limited extent it retains any of the fundamentals) that is displayed by so many of the exceptional individuals who are documented here does not correspond very closely to leftism-in-fact. I mean just imagine MovieBob attending a meeting with community activists, let alone linking up with Naxalites or other hardened third-world badasses.
> 
> Commitment to an egalitarian distribution of resources and worker self-determination predates the performative anti-gamergate movement. God willing, it will outlast it, as well.


Aren't Naxalites Maoists? Please educate me, because any ideology that glorifies Mao's reign sounds like it would be completely retarded. Mao is responsible for the death of millions of his countrymen, Hitler was a total joke compared to him. I'm pretty sure living under a MovieBob dictatorship would be safer than having anything to do with Mao.


----------



## The Notorious RGB (Jan 13, 2021)

Cancellation is bad for my health.

The older I get, the more I turn conservative. I was conservative to begin with, but I just get stauncher. Unfortunately no politicians worthy of my vote, so...


----------



## Gorillad Cheese (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm a tree-hugging environmentalist and I'm gay. Those are the main reasons. I'm not even that far left, I would probably have voted for a moderate Republican like Kasich over Hillary if he had won the Republican nomination in 2016. It's too late for that anymore though, Trump is an absolute buffoon who has permanently stained the Republican Party.


----------



## The Perplexing Ms. Escape (Jan 13, 2021)

Because there aren’t any right leaning policies I agree with.


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## pussy raptor (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm left leaning but I really dont like radicalised politics on either side. In politics I value rational, nuanced discussion the most and I have both more conservative and liberal friends, we somehow get along without bashing each other's heads in. Mostly because we respect each other and don't turn our political views into personal identity.

Also selfishly because I'm gay and want to get married and have children with my trad wife, but in my neck of the woods that isn't really all that possible. I strongly value family over politics, sadly current politics limit my ability to have said family so I support progressive, left-leaning and liberal politics.


----------



## Getwhatyou (Jan 13, 2021)

I believe everyone deserves a chance to be better. And if my taxes help that then I'm happy.


----------



## Stoneheart (Jan 13, 2021)

Subtle said:


> I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else.


Yes! Very good!



Subtle said:


> Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive.


Let the Hate grow! We all know who has made all those decision.. Everybody know who flooded the west with hordes of criminal scum. 


Subtle said:


> It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.


Yes, thats why "they" have to go and their hordes of minions have to be put to work, for a thousand years....




💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> I don't know much about socialism in Nordic countries, it's possible they've done something to actually make it work.


What Socialism? Nordic countries are Hyper Capitalistic, they only use Taxpayer money more efficient and well they like to work.  
But that system is gone, some idiots opened the gates for all the sub 80 iq migrants---


----------



## Rorschach Test (Jan 13, 2021)

💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> Aren't Naxalites Maoists? Please educate me, because any ideology that glorifies Mao's reign sounds like it would be completely retarded. Mao is responsible for the death of millions of his countrymen, Hitler was a total joke compared to him. I'm pretty sure living under a MovieBob dictatorship would be safer than having anything to do with Mao.


The famine associated with the Great Leap Forward sucked. Nobody can argue against that. It was also the last famine that China had. India still has cyclical famines and crushing poverty. So it’s like India suffers a new Great Leap Forward every decade. 

Economist Amartya Sen describes it as follows: “Despite the gigantic size of excess mortality in the Chinese famine, the extra mortality in India from regular deprivation in normal times vastly overshadows the former. [...] India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame.”

Living in China might seem shitty to us, but it’s a relative paradise to these guys growing up in starving villages. 

In contrast, Hitler went out of his way to kill (all memes aside) six million Jews and others through direct extermination.  Through war, 20 million Soviets, and got about 20 million Germans killed. Memes aside, he’s the worst.


----------



## Poppavalyim Andropoff (Jan 13, 2021)

Left leg is 2” shorter ..


----------



## Subtle (Jan 13, 2021)

Stoneheart said:


> Yes! Very good!
> 
> Let the Hate grow! We all know who has made all those decision.. Everybody know who flooded the west with hordes of criminal scum.
> 
> Yes, thats why "they" have to go and their hordes of minions have to be put to work, for a thousand years....


It's all I can think about!

Oy Vey! Oh Fuck! Every time I read a news article, every time I get an unwonted TikTok notification, every time I find a thread about politics, I see, THE JEW! Every time I read about economic forecasts, I see asymmetric cryptosystems notifying me of a New World Order. Every time I spot an interracial couple, I see their baby's Zionistic godfather telling me of welfare opportunities that I can't refuse!  Judaism has taken hold deep inside of me and I am not sure that I want it out! BRAVO YAHWEH! You have circumcised my IQ with SOCIALISM and I shall never rest until the spirits of nationalism and capitalism are expunged from the face of the earth!

אינשאללה!


----------



## brentkanaris (Jan 13, 2021)

Subtle said:


> I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else. Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive. It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.



Just about anyone who aren't the ideologues or benefactors of neoliberalism will tell you that this was a mistake long term. Not to really blame them when it started since the Keynesian consensus broke down horribly for the first world by the 70s and with the relative economic improvements of the 80s and the defeat of the second world in the 90s, neoliberalism looked like the wave of the future.

What you need to explain is why and how socialism or your brand of socialism will make things better. Giving it's track record, I doubt it.



💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> Yep. Hatred of Jews is really just anger at the ruling class.



Antisemitism goes beyond class. People hated Jews when they were barred from the ruling class. That's like saying people hate blacks or Arabs because they're poor. 



Ralph from Chicago said:


> Unions. Republicans actively work against the labor movement. Democrats do not.


1980 called. They want their outdated takes on the American left and right back.


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## Stoneheart (Jan 13, 2021)

Subtle said:


> Oy Vey! Oh Fuck! Every time I read a news article, every time I get an unwonted TikTok notification, every time I find a thread about politics, I see, THE JEW! Every time I read about economic forecasts, I see asymmetric cryptosystems notifying me of a New World Order. Every time I spot an interracial couple, I see their baby's Zionistic godfather telling me of welfare opportunities that I can't refuse! Judaism has taken hold deep inside of me and I am not sure that I want it out! BRAVO YAHWEH! You have circumcised my IQ with SOCIALISM and I shall never rest until the spirits of nationalism and capitalism are expunged from the face of the earth!


Thats Antisemitic Mate! there is nothing wrong with Zionism and the Jews in Israel arent the problem. they hate those globalist jews with a passion...
They also hate what "they" are doing to israel, they are starting to open up the floodgates in Israel too. 
Beitar Jerusalem is the most based group of people you can find, they go out and hunt invaders about once a week.

You either stand with Israel and its People or with "them".  Israel cant exist if they let in all the negro "jews" and arabs...


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## Subtle (Jan 13, 2021)

brentkanaris said:


> Just about anyone who aren't the ideologues or benefactors of neoliberalism will tell you that this was a mistake long term. Not to really blame them when it started since the Keynesian consensus broke down horribly for the first world by the 70s and with the relative economic improvements of the 80s and the defeat of the second world in the 90s, neoliberalism looked like the wave of the future.
> 
> What you need to explain is why and how socialism or your brand of socialism will make things better. Giving it's track record, I doubt it.


I'm not an ideologue and am content with compromises such as James Yunker's ‘pragmatic market socialism’ that curbs  inequality while preserving the prevailing consumer culture. I will not deny that capitalists, providing entrepreneurship roles, possess a legitimate right to a profit as a reward for their effort. But *really large* capital fortunes are a consequence of inheritance, not to mention illegitimate rewards for speculation in financial capital markets. Such income is neither economically necessary nor is its receipt morally equitable. So I would support the public ownership of every large, established business corporation while having all other enterprises stay under private ownership.


Stoneheart said:


> Thats Antisemitic Mate! there is nothing wrong with Zionism and the Jews in Israel arent the problem. they hate those globalist jews with a passion...
> They also hate what "they" are doing to israel, they are starting to open up the floodgates in Israel too.
> Beitar Jerusalem is the most based group of people you can find, they go out and hunt invaders about once a week.
> 
> You either stand with Israel and its People or with "them".  Israel cant exist if they let in all the negro "jews" and arabs...


Do you even Black Israelites, cracka?


----------



## CreamyHerman’s (Jan 13, 2021)

Ralph from Chicago said:


> Unions. Republicans actively work against the labor movement. Democrats do not.
> 
> Unions are the best institution we have to address societal problems without government. Low wages is the obvious one. Want health insurance? Unions. Upward mobility for low-wage non-college educated white? unions. Want to do something about the black unemployment rate? Opioid epidemic? Low marriage rates? Organized working class participation in electoral politics? Unions solve everything.


Unionization doesn't work when you can just deport jobs to other countries. I work in Telecomm and almost 3/4th's of the employee's are Indians.


----------



## Ihavetinyweewee (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm left of center, but I despise the current incarnation of the democratic party.

I do believe we need a proper progressive movement in this country.  Something to counter the corporatist controlled dems and repubs..

But, current progressives seem more concered with bullshit social justice issues than realistic reform..

We desperatly need to enforce anti-trust laws and corporate regulation.

Even Sanders, the poster boy, ended up being a complete tool.


----------



## Henry Wyatt (Jan 13, 2021)

mostly because i have more left wing views than right wing views, i support trannies and faggots, I feel the police system needs reform(not defunding though, im not that retarded) i feel healthcare should be more affordable and i think workers should have more power.
the only "right wing" view i have is supporting gun rights


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## Stormy Daniel's Lawyer (Jan 13, 2021)

The left is run by Oligarchs and corporations now. The left are the new book burners, word-Nazis, and free loaders. However, It will lead to their unfortunate demise in the end. They will cancel and censor to the point that ultimately the right will bow no more, and then there will be piles of dead bodies lying around the country. I do find it ironic that the left are now hiding behind the same cops they villainized just a few months ago...They can't protect you all...


----------



## Ihavetinyweewee (Jan 13, 2021)

Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> The left is run by Oligarchs and corporations now. The left are the new book burners, word-Nazis, and free loaders. However, It will lead to their unfortunate demise in the end. They will cancel and censor to the point that ultimately the right will bow no more, and then there will be piles of dead bodies lying around the country. I do find it ironic that the left are now hiding behind the same cops they villainized just a few months ago...They can't protect you all...


Honestly, i think the left/right dichotomy is starting to become antiquated and fake.

The real struggle is corporation/establishment vs middle america..


----------



## Stormy Daniel's Lawyer (Jan 13, 2021)

Ihavetinyweewee said:


> Honestly, i think the left/right dichotomy is starting to become antiquated and fake.
> 
> The real struggle is corporation/establishment vs middle america..


I agree. I could have said Marixst/Socialist/Corporatist vs middle America.


----------



## Guardian G.I. (Jan 13, 2021)

My political orientation is "liberal scum", in both American ("communist") and Russian ("anti-communist") sense of the word, while in reality I'm more of a social liberal. Market economy with reasonable government regulations and civil oversight (capitalists can and will screw everyone over for profit if given the opportunity, just look at 19th century Western countries or 1990s Russia), with progressive and egalitarian social policies, without giving in to xenophobic bloodthirsty far-right nuttery or catastrophically inept and often similarly xenophobic bloodthirsty far-left nuttery (looking at you, Stalinists). Eastern Europe has had enough suffering from both.

I've pretty much given up on posting on KF because ever since the Farms have got overrun by rightoid political refugees from Reddit, the dominant ideological positions here piss me off way too much, and I don't feel like arguing with everyone only to get mad, receive negative ratings and ruin my free time.


Spoiler



I particularly dislike the Farms' stupid circlejerk over incredibly horrible evil transes that apparently have an agenda similar to this. Most of the talking points are in reality either rehashed anti-gay bullshit from three decades ago like "trannies are gonna brainwash the kids and rape them" (except this time it's totally real, guys, info 100% true), or people being mad because trans people can be ugly and repulsive. Being ugly and repulsive is not a crime! Also, treating horrible people on a case-by-case basis without putting the blame on the whole social group isn't possible, of course.

From a very cynical Darwinist viewpoint, if you are weak-minded enough to have your hardwired biological imperatives overwritten by someone's persuasion, you probably wouldn't have made a good contribution to the gene pool anyway.

And, of course, the Jews and "Marxist" influence everywhere. Marx and Engels are probably generating enough energy in their graves to power half of Eurasia because of everything right wingers in the SJW threads are always associating with them, like capitalist corporations putting gay scenes into video games.


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 13, 2021)

brentkanaris said:


> Antisemitism goes beyond class. People hated Jews when they were barred from the ruling class. That's like saying people hate blacks or Arabs because they're poor.


In the modern West it seems to be mostly a class thing. Lower class gentiles don't like the way things are going, they see there's a bunch of Jews in positions of power so they blame them for what's going on. Ruling class gentiles who are Zionists, friendly with Jews or progressive get called Jew-adjacent or "good goys".

Some gentiles also fear that the Jewish people may be racist supremacist anti-racemixing ethnostatist eugenicists who engage in racial nepotism. That's my conclusion from peeking into the world of antisemites. The biggest issue is that they often treat Jews like a hivemind and attribute the wrongdoings of one to the whole group-- people should really be taught not to do that from a young age, it's crucial to fighting true racism and bigotry.



Rorschach Test said:


> The famine associated with the Great Leap Forward sucked. Nobody can argue against that. It was also the last famine that China had. India still has cyclical famines and crushing poverty. So it’s like India suffers a new Great Leap Forward every decade.
> 
> Economist Amartya Sen describes it as follows: “Despite the gigantic size of excess mortality in the Chinese famine, the extra mortality in India from regular deprivation in normal times vastly overshadows the former. [...] India seems to manage to fill its cupboard with more skeletons every eight years than China put there in its years of shame.”
> 
> ...



Mao went out of his way to kill nearly as many of his own people. India is a mess, but I'm not sure Maoism is the answer.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/
		



			https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2012/feb/24/cultural-revolution-portraits-xu-weixin
		



			https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong
		




> Mao himself claimed that a total of 700,000 people were killed in attacks on "counter-revolutionaries" during the years 1950–1952. However, because there was a policy to select "at least one landlord, and usually several, in virtually every village for public execution", the number of deaths range between 2 million and 5 million. In addition, at least 1.5 million people, perhaps as many as 4 to 6 million, were sent to "reform through labour" camps where many perished. Mao played a personal role in organizing the mass repressions and established a system of execution quotas, which were often exceeded.





> It is not merely the extent of the catastrophe that dwarfs earlier estimates, but also the manner in which many people died: between two and three million victims were tortured to death or summarily killed, often for the slightest infraction. When a boy stole a handful of grain in a Hunan village, local boss Xiong Dechang forced his father to bury him alive. The father died of grief a few days later. The case of Wang Ziyou was reported to the central leadership: one of his ears was chopped off, his legs were tied with iron wire, a ten kilogram stone was dropped on his back and then he was branded with a sizzling tool – punishment for digging up a potato.



I'll take Hitler over Mao, although both are bad. If Mao had been European, millions of Jews would have suffered under him because he hated intellectuals, landlords and the upper class in general.


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## furūtsu (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't know where on the spectrum I am, honestly.

Anti-censorship, pro-choice (in cases of incest, rape, stillbirths, teen pregnancy, severe congenital defects and nonviable pregnancies), pro-religion, Christian, pro-gun, pro death penalty, anti-transgenders fucking with everything, pro gay marriage, anti (illegal) immigration, anti corporations, pro decriminalization of all drugs, anti prostitution and sex work, anti porn (but pro hentai).

My beliefs are generally shaped around "Is X thing more beneficial or detrimental to society, and can it be prevented or merely substituted with a more palatable alternative?" I'm also human, and selfish, and support policies that personally benefit myself and my family.

I'm also very much live and let live, but I also realistically understand that laws and regulations need to exist for a reason and that they'll inevitably fuck over some minority, but no perfect compromise can be made.


----------



## Steely Dan (Jan 13, 2021)

I generally consider myself a pretty progressive guy, it's just that the left in America has gone so far left that they've become conservative witch hunters. Corporations and unfettered capitalism need to be controlled and regulated, and when it comes to social issues generally I don't care as long as someone doesn't make their sexuality or their one deviant thing their sole defining characteristic of their personality, because those people are generally annoying narcissists. 

One thing that might diverge me from the left a ittle bit although I don't think it should; is that I think the biggest problem the country, and maybe the west at large faces, is that it has lost its soul. What I mean is that during the 20th century after the industrial revolution, and going through two world wars, I think a lot of people gave up on God, or any kind of faith or spirituality. I think within the last couple generations you're really seeing the results of that, with tribalism being at an all-time high, and people picking their political team that they can gather with, have faith in, and worship, and that being politics. This is further exacerbated by social media, which holes you into a hugbox where you can increase your zealotry and religious fervor for your political party. This also has come about in time when NAFTA, and many other pieces of legislation have been passed that put Americans out of jobs, giving them time to be bored, cynical, and sink further into political identity. (See: people LARPing as revolutionaries on the capital). I think gaining some sort of spirituality and laying down your personal ego is a very progressive thing to do these days when it feels like the entire world is being put under the vise of cynical hyper-capitalism, and globalization.  That doesn't mean go to church on Sunday, as I kinda pick and choose from all different religions of what their key components are, then base that as my spirituality.  

Overall, I think people should stay informed, however getting jammed up to the point where you lose friends or become estranged to relatives is also killing the country, and people should focus on caring about themselves and their family.


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## Bunny Tracks (Jan 13, 2021)

Because I'm pro-choice (within reason), pro-gay marriage, support women's rights, think police brutality is a problem that needs to be addressed, think diversity is usually a good thing, don't hate minorities and want to get rid of them, think corporations needed to be regulated, think healthcare needs to be reformed, support a higher minimum wage, and worker's rights, support environmentalism, and animal rights (within reason), pro-pornography (again, within reason), think mental health is a serious problem, believe we should decriminalize drugs, or at the very least, reform our laws about them, think some sort of welfare should be provided for those that need it,  and believe there should be a strong, and distinct separation between church and state.

However, I am also pro-gun (_again,_ within reason), think identity politics are fucking bullshit, think the T in LGBT has gotten way out of control, don't think all men are evil, and should apologize and repent for being born with a dick, think that being a woman, or minority shouldn't absolve you from consequences, am very proud and grateful to be an American and think that you should actually have to work for your money if you are able to.


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## El Sátiro Sordo (Jan 13, 2021)

I don't know if I  count as a leftist.

I believe in worker's rights as well as welfare; free College and Healthcare, and affordable housing. I also believe in the regulation of key industries, especially when it comes to the protection of the environment. Unregulated capitalism is utterly unequipped to deal with climate change. If we don't do something this entire world is going to hell.

The main reason I don't identify myself as a leftist, at least openly, has to do with the left itself. I am a catholic. I have no problems with LGBT people, but it seems that my lifestyle is constantly ridiculed and demonized by Twitter LARPers. It's weird to be in company of  people so weary of you when it comes to basic human decency.

Let's say I don't feel welcomed.


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Jan 13, 2021)

I lean left because I read. Reading is the cure for fascism


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## Rich Evans Apologist (Jan 13, 2021)

I make fun of whoever is the most rump-ravaged at any given point, which means oscillating to take the form of their natural posterior predators.


Spoiler: Do you really want this autism? Do you REALLY?



I have never really gone with the flow on just about anything, and I flirt with almost every political perspective on some point because I enjoy debate and screaming like an autistic retard. I have never really felt the sort of peer pressure that other people have to adhere to certain political lines, as I broadly have no problems with being a loner and don't anyways want to waste my time around people that can't tolerate fundamental differences of opinion in their peers. (Of course, I am also not retarded enough to try to force this to work in professional settings, where adopting a persona to go with the flow is necessary for survival and not uncommon for any age.) I tend to prefer as a result whoever comes up with the best arguments on-average, since everyone is a retard sometimes: and this has meant that I prefer the sort of policies and perspectives prescribed by outlets like the Economist, authors/thinkers like Jonathan Haidt, and monotone rambling fedoras like Sam Harris.

As all young and dumb children are, I was more vehemently progressive when young. Then I kept losing arguments and finding myself rubbing shoulders with the most obviously manipulative and detestable people, and so I turned more towards a libertarian bent thanks to a friend/mentor funneling me that perspective. Yet ideological libertarianism gets wrapped up in completely unrealistic expectations about the way that the world should-be could-be may-be, and it fails on a fundamental level to offer succor to anyone that gets dealt a rough hand; a pragmatic sort of libertarianism is much more attractive to me, which broadly finds itself stapled more to the center, to people who actually aim to influence policy rather than offering "lol just move" as advice.

As I am now, I oscillate between preferring a weak central government if it is to be written with feeble checks & balances and staffed by complete shitheads, but a strong and commanding central government if its institutions are ironclad and it is staffed by technocrats and ideologues of true color -- oscillation being necessary because neither of those are realistically attainable, especially in the united states. At times I can come off as sympathetic to Marxist ideas and arguments, but at others I'll espouse a Schumpeterian critique of capitalism which still fundamentally affirms its use and practicality. I would describe myself as postmodern in the way that Nick Gillespie is - having beliefs, but not really believing them to be an accurate or realistic thing, preferring to try to view the world bereft of its grand narratives. Disco Elysium's writing gave me big cummies for this reason.

While I am put off by the ideologues on the left and find them to be utterly insufferable because they really, really damage any chance of what I want to realize occurring, I never belonged to that group of people and as such don't feel particularly spurned by them. Class animus does infuse me, even if I regard most unions in the modern-day as compromised, self-serving, and an ultimately outdated model that has failed to keep up with the times. That being the case, seeing these bourgie progtard sociopaths clamboring all over each other to pozz the labor and progressive movement on the whole is deeply frustrating, and yet something which simply affirms my stance rather than sends me veering off into nationalistic frenzy.

And all of this could pretty easily point to one landing center-right or center-left; I prefer left simply because the right's pillars of interest have never held much appeal to me. I can regard them as important and inoffensive and even necessary for society to exist and in the same breath prefer the sorts of experiences, life, and belief which comes from hewing closer to the left. A cautious and realist (that is, cynical) approach to idealism most accurately grabs what I desire: use the bounds and limits of today to search for a better tomorrow; don't act as if you're already in a better tomorrow and just hope that everything magically works out.





Bunny Tracks said:


> don't hate minorities, and want to get rid of them,


Watch that comma placement!


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## Occam's Spork (Jan 14, 2021)

Eh. I'm just an old school liberal. Free speech, right to free assembly and protest, all the stuff in the constitution about keeping the govt in check by the people. 

I'm pro 2nd, couldn't give a fuck less about abortion, I'm ambivalent on gay rights, and I think transgender people are 99% in need of psychological care. 

Any other wedge issues are just fodder for the political machine. Push my button, not theirs, etc. 

What concerns me the most is how insidious tribalism has gotten in the last 8 years. It's not so much the left/right dichotomy, it's how the two sides are being groomed into visceral hatred of anyone who so much as questions the narrative or doctrines that have been put forth. I used to be able to have a simple debate over contentious issues, and maybe we don't agree, but you know, that's fine, but now it's simply insane the sheer amount of loathing that seems to be out there from people who cloister themselves in one camp and set their pikes.

I'm not smart enough to even venture a thought as to what the best path forward for the US is, but I can say with absolute certainty that what we have right now is the opposite of what we actually need.

The last thing we need is the civil war that some, here and elsewhere, seem to pine for. Violence will only beget more violence. We need to work the problem, not make more.


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## The Last Stand (Jan 14, 2021)

The key term I'm hearing with this thread is "WITHIN REASON." 

Nobody wants to reason with each other any more. Just go off one side and hope for the best.


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## RMQualtrough (Jan 15, 2021)

I thought I was a Nazi because I kept seeing crazy "liberals". Then I saw what true liberals are (e.g. Christopher Hitchens) and realized I agree with them the most.

SJWs made me vote right wing because I figured that's what I am based on their nonsense. But really it's just that the self-centred virtue signalling freaks skewed my perception.

I think I'm considered libertarian in ideals albeit I don't think it could work irl. People IDEALLY should be allowed to do anything to themselves responsibly or use guns responsibly etc. but people simply AREN'T responsible. Most people are in fact retards and would for example drop some Shrooms and sprint off nude with knives yelling about demons.


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## GHTD (Jan 15, 2021)

I used to be more on the right-wing side but I ended up completely breaking myself by doing that. So, I ended up looking at what the right had turned into with a close eye instead of blindly parroting whatever some right wing pundit had to say, and I noticed it's a bunch of people arguing about whether meager shit normal people would find OK is "unconstitutional" or not and shit along those lines. I didn't want to be part of that cancer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm left but I fucking _hate _our fringes to the core. Bernie bros are some of the most IQ-less people on this planet that totally aren't stuck in some cult world. Fuck them.


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## TylerDurden11 (Jan 15, 2021)

All the religious crap is probably scaring many away from the right. The right is too conservative and left is too liberal and many people dont fit in anywhere


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 16, 2021)

RMQualtrough said:


> I thought I was a Nazi because I kept seeing crazy "liberals". Then I saw what true liberals are (e.g. Christopher Hitchens) and realized I agree with them the most.
> 
> SJWs made me vote right wing because I figured that's what I am based on their nonsense. But really it's just that the self-centred virtue signalling freaks skewed my perception.
> 
> I think I'm considered libertarian in ideals albeit I don't think it could work irl. People IDEALLY should be allowed to do anything to themselves responsibly or use guns responsibly etc. but people simply AREN'T responsible. Most people are in fact retards and would for example drop some Shrooms and sprint off nude with knives yelling about demons.


The issue is that the lunatic fringe of the left is leaking into the government, the school system, the media and even some workplaces. Biden said he has nothing against 8 year olds transitioning and his team has racebaited and encouraged riots all summer. They shielded antifa as they attacked fellow Americans. It was probably just virtue signaling to get elected, but it's still horrific imo.

There's even some left wing politicians who incited violence against right wingers. I'd probably lean left if it wasn't for all that.


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## kiwi-identified cow (Jan 16, 2021)

Respectfully, I'll go into why I left the left, as well as some things I do still agree with them about.

I was raised by people who leaned right and I went leftward after high school, probably out of teen angst against family. I spent a few years in a liberal online community and got the ideology ingrained in my head, which actually seemed to build a negative worldview because of how I bought into social justice culture: I began to truly believe that 'less fortunate' people were entitled to resources attained through others' hard work because 'the system' would stop them if they tried to work for themselves, or that western economic and social systems just automatically crush anyone who isn't middle-class, white, straight, cisgender, _and_ 100% free of mental and physical disabilities (in reality most people aren't, as almost everyone has a physical or mental barrier to deal with at some point in their lives).



Spoiler: more paragraphs



Seeing the world as a dangerous place that would oppress and harm me if I didn't find 'safe' spaces and people to surround myself with was a deconstructive, isolating mindset. Almost all people have experienced suffering and trauma of some sort, each person in a way that is unique to them. There is often no 'worse' set of circumstances than another, but when everyone has a victim complex and we all think we got dealt one of the worst hands in life, we subconsciously compete with each other to see who makes the cut to be considered truly oppressed. And once we're there, then what? You're considered by your peers to be one of the Most Oppressed, yet you are still going nowhere in life -- and due to this ideology, you think it's because of who you are (non-white, not straight, whatever) instead of the choices you've made (education, time management and work ethic, passions and interests).

Go out into the world, and defend yourself if you have to -- but spend enough time in the (civilized) world and you'll see that it's actually uncommon to have to. Better-yet, potentially having to defend yourself from something is worth being free. Best-yet is the fact that spending time around people who disagree with you challenges the mind, broadens emotional capacity, and generally brings positivity and balance to your life if you let it; conversely, the concept of 'thought crime' teaches that it's unethical to want to be around people who hold radically different views at all.

While for most of 2020 I felt libertarian, I'm now moving more and more toward the 'libertarian right' every time I see a new side of the western left. As other have said in this thread and elsewhere, the modern 'woke' left truly does not seem to care about oppression unless it fits specific patterns and narratives. All of their 'protect black/queer/etc. people uwu' rhetoric means nothing as soon as the black/whatever person doesn't agree with the narrative at hand. Just take a look at r/asablackman for examples; it's a subreddit originally meant to mock powerleveling and obvious lying, but it's often used to just say "look, this person says he's black, but he doesn't agree with what black people SHOULD agree with" (in the opinions of white liberals, for the most part).

In reading this thread, I'm glad to see that some people who identify as left-wing differentiate between leftism and 'woke culture' -- what I'm describing is probably best defined as the latter as opposed to just 'leftism.' I'm okay with approaches that are considered left-wing when it comes to many social issues, like LGBT+ rights, but I wish we could look at it all through the lense of Constitutional rights to self-expression and privacy as opposed to identity politics. (Along those lines, I truly wish that the woke left would take trans issues more seriously. It's objectively an _issue_ to have a mismatch between one's identity and body -- as traditional transsexual people will tell you -- and whether a person views it as a delusion or not, the answer is not to put all our energy into trans acceptance and no energy into maintaining a consistent, logical definition for what being trans means to begin with. The woke movement is starting to alienate some of the most educated, successful trans people just for acknowledging biology and questioning social trends.)

Then there's the mental health. The average young wokester seems to think that whatever three-letter diagnosis they got -- often from some institution chasing insurance payouts with 'doctors' who 'diagnose' multiple strangers every day before never interacting with the same 'patients' again -- _has_ to control their sense of identity, ability to work, _and_ social standing. They firmly believe that not only are they not physically/mentally capable, but that they're going to be actively stopped by mysterious 'oppressive' forces if they try.

So it's overall a miserable philosophical stance: basically "I can't get anywhere because I'm too retarded/weird to integrate with society" when it's just not true. Woke culture is a philosophy of brainwashing yourself to think you're not capable on your own, that society absolutely must rise up to meet you in some way if you are to succeed at all, that you must measure how much 'privilege' you have and compare yourself to your fellow human beings constantly, and that all the quirks of your brain must be due to Your Assigned Acronyms and not just the fact that each person is a unique individual with a unique past and unique emotions. Combine this with the immense social pressure to behave as the group does in woke circles, and the result is IMO pure stress and instability.



While I've been trying to make a consistent effort not to disrespect people who still have this philosophy (especially if they truly seem happy), I'm very thankful that I was able to move past it personally and I hope others can do the same if it feels right for them.


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## kelfa (Jan 16, 2021)

I just think worker unions and workplace democracy would be better than the corpocratic Hellworld we currently live in. Don't see society achieving any of that in my lifetime, but I can be . The way I see it idpol from either side only serves to distract the masses from the real oppressors. You can fuck whoever can consent and do whatever the hell you want to your own body, just act normal, imo.


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## The Lizard Queen (Jan 16, 2021)

In college I leaned so far left that I had to wear special shoes to keep me from falling over. I went full SJW, with blue hair streeks and boots and everything, and hung out with a bunch of wannabes and genderspecials. God, so thought I was so important. I was gonna go change the world and bring down the system.
Once I got into the workforce and started interacting with people outside of school, I realized just how ridiculously out of touch with reality I had been, and veered right. Now I see the value of moderation in all things, and understand why things are the way they are. I still want to change things, but now I think financially instead of socially.


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## CreamyHerman’s (Jan 18, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> I lean left because I read. Reading is the cure for fascism


Lol you do realize Mussolini surrounded himself with brainlets right?


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## Slap47 (Jan 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> I was considered anti-gun for a time. That failed Texas church shooting some time ago changed my mind.



The left used to be the main force for gun rights in the country. Some prominent American leftist who's name escapes me cited the gun on the family mantle as the source of America's greatness.



Dave. said:


> If there's any left leaning users on this site, I'm curious to know why you lean this way. No hatred from me and no I'm not accusing you of any of the actions that have happened recently in America, I'm curious what policies you agree with and why.



*Public healthcare: *Works better than America's network of private insurance companies. This will lead to govt regulation of things like the amount of sugar in pop/soda, but it is worth the cost.  Insurance companies and/or the lack of a safety net already effectively restricts liberties so these types of unnoticed regulations should be less of an issue. 

*Inequality: *Markets are a good idea, but having all of the wealth funneling to the top is dangerous. The left is dominated by the part of the elite that have a paternal mindset and savior complex, but that does not change the fact that they come from the system championed by the right. 

*Social issues:* The Right hate to hear this but they are still dominated by the religious moral majority. American, Canadian and British conservatives would probably ban weed if they could (In the USA they still do). They're anti-gay, anti-trans, and want to regulate areas such as free expression. I'm not hyped about the LGBT subculture, but they should have the right to do their own thing. 

*Discourse:* The left does this but its worth mentioning. The Right are knowingly misinforming people and allying themselves with questionable people. Paul Joseph Watson, Sargon, Ian Miles Cheong, Epoch Times, Falun Gong, the Moonies,  OANN, and all that lie or are just simply morally dubious. I know many of them should know better. Some like Cheong admit to lying to further an idea, and others like Sargon should know better than to call Biden a communist. I know that Sargon is aware of the differences between Marxism, Marxist-Leninism, and various types of early socialism.  They know better, but yet lie. They embrace anti-intellectualism on issues like climate change, COVID, and race just to support arguments that honestly don't need anti-intellectualism to stand.  The rampant conspirism and lying is simply not healthy. 

*Militarism:* Max Boot ("We should patrol the world like we patrolled the wild west") became a Democrat because of Trump, but Trump still greatly increased spending on the military-industrial complex. Conservatives in most every country generally support unnecessary military spending and conflict. In the case of the USA/Canada/Britain this is driven by cultish evangelicals who think supporting Israel will bring on the apocalypse and questionable big business interests. 

*Racism: *


			https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8E3ENrKrQ
		


Racist Republicans exist and have had racist agendas. Aspiring for equality and meritocracy requires rejecting such ideas. The poster of this video mistakenly frame this as the parties switching on racism. I see it more as the Republicans embracing small government southern whites to finally become a national party as the Dems become more big government. The Dems did not stop being racist, but the Reps sure as hell did become more racist. 





Subtle said:


> I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else. Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive. It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.



My biggest gripe with the mainstream left and self-described socialists is that they are effectively neoliberals.

Their rhetoric is about neoliberalism being a great evil but yet they support neoliberals. Globohomo is a conspiracy buzzword, but it is an apt description of the mainstream left. 






Their rejection of free speech and sudden love for giant corporations is the final nail in the coffin for me ever supporting them again.


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## Dave. (Jan 18, 2021)

Slap47 said:


> The left used to be the main force for gun rights in the country. Some prominent American leftist who's name escapes me cited the gun on the family mantle as the source of America's greatness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I mostly align with you, but what about education? Are you for a blend of privatized and public education with more money put towards them? That's how I am and, in response to the corruption of college campuses, they'd also be regulated in terms of infrastructure so they don't intentionally inflate their budgets to ridiculous degrees.


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## Subtle (Jan 19, 2021)

Slap47 said:


> My biggest gripe with the mainstream left and self-described socialists is that they are effectively neoliberals.
> 
> Their rhetoric is about neoliberalism being a great evil but yet they support neoliberals. Globohomo is a conspiracy buzzword, but it is an apt description of the mainstream left.
> 
> ...


Champagne socialists, those bastards. When media presents these people, they’re not sending our best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing cringe. They’re bringing cancel culture. They’re dropouts. And some, I assume, are useful idiots.


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## Extreme Aneurysm (Jan 19, 2021)

You all are fags and unironically state your fag opinions. Everyone in this thread sound like a person who was forced to take an AAA meeting by a court and have to regurgitate everything they are told or risk going to jail.
This isn't deep thoughts, these are fag takes.
Anyone who want more governmental control like the left should kill themselves! You will never be a woman.


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## Lil' Misogynist (Jan 19, 2021)

Slap47 said:


> The left used to be the main force for gun rights in the country. Some prominent American leftist who's name escapes me cited the gun on the family mantle as the source of America's greatness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Though I’m definitely not a leftist, with a few exceptions, this is a very spot-on summary of my own issues with the American right-wing. Especially the bit about intentional anti-intellectualism. The science denial and culture of proud ignorance is a worrying trend. We need to stop acting like Republicans, conservatives, etc. aren’t majorly contributing to political tribalism. Also, their view of the world tends to be as bleak, angry, and soul-crushing as what I see from hardcore social justice advocates.



Guardian G.I. said:


> I've pretty much given up on posting on KF because ever since the Farms have got overrun by rightoid political refugees from Reddit, the dominant ideological positions here piss me off way too much, and I don't feel like arguing with everyone only to get mad, receive negative ratings and ruin my free time.



I’ve kinda had a similar issue. I can enjoy and appreciate dark/edgy humor. I don’t want to feel like I’m back on the middle school playground.


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## Rorschach Test (Jan 20, 2021)

Extreme Aneurysm said:


> (lots of shit i didn’t read)



You might be in the wrong thread, friendo. 

The fundamentals of leftism remain strong. The history of hitherto existing society is one of class struggle. This dynamic has plainly managed to survive every upheaval that may have promised to end it ‘naturally’: industrialization, the digital revolution, theinternet.  The ruling class still owns the means of production. Everyone else is forced to sell their labor to survive. The ruling class uses all sorts of distractions to divide and weaken the working class - racism, culture war issues - so they can continue to keep their power. You can try to reduce this to “you just want the government to have more control :’( “ but right now the gov has plenty of control, and it’s also a puppet of the ultra-wealthy. That’s why your life sucks, not because of blue-haired college students.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jan 20, 2021)

Thread topic: "why do you lean left"
Most of the responses: "why i am no longer left"



Slap47 said:


> Max Boot ("We should patrol the world like we patrolled the wild west") became a Democrat because of Trump, but Trump still greatly increased spending on the military-industrial complex.


The MIC grows principally by virtue of stoking global conflict that necessitates the production that fuels the complex-- that's why we're supposed to be wary of it. That's distinct from spending money to make sure your military is up-to-date.


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## Slap47 (Jan 20, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Thread topic: "why do you lean left"
> Most of the responses: "why i am no longer left"
> 
> 
> The MIC grows principally by virtue of stoking global conflict that necessitates the production that fuels the complex-- that's why we're supposed to be wary of it. That's distinct from spending money to make sure your military is up-to-date.



Despising the current parties and movements does not make you no longer left/left leaning.



Dave. said:


> I mostly align with you, but what about education? Are you for a blend of privatized and public education with more money put towards them? That's how I am and, in response to the corruption of college campuses, they'd also be regulated in terms of infrastructure so they don't intentionally inflate their budgets to ridiculous degrees.



Its very difficult to answer to this question because its more than just less government or more government. New York has strong teachers unions and lots of govt, but the schools they have for normal kids are shit. Arkansas and West Virginia have their schools on starvation spending and this results in the worst test scores.  Michigan tried widespread charter schools and it made everything worse.

New York has a crisis of shitty teachers and poorly allocated spending. Teachers are actively harming students both through denying them funds through the massive amount of money they demand and rape (with no consequences).


			https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reassignment_centers
		


Arkansas/West Virginian teachers are paid little and have to buy their students basic supplies. Not surprisingly, the students are vegetables.

Michigan tried widespread Charter schools. Charter schools are usually good because they're started up by passionate people who want an alternative to the public system. In Michigan corporations made charter schools and ran them worse than public schools following the ethos of profit maximization. They would accept more kids than they could handle to get subsidies but then reject kids just before the school year to handle a lower yield. These kids would go to a public system unprepared to handle them. Michigan schools would regularly close randomly forcing kids to get GEDs. They were often found to be utterly corrupt and ripe with abuse. 

As far as the USA goes, they should follow the example of Canada's western provinces


			https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/HermanCanadaReport.pdf
		

The province/state funds the schools directly, and demand degrees from teachers. Spending on students is actually limited in the name of equality, but this results in institutional changes that benefit all. There are two competing systems (public and Catholic)  and this results in a healthy dialogue on education. 



			https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuition_freeze
		

The Canadian example also solves the College issue. The best way to reduce costs is to limit spending and the best way to limit spending is to directly reduce the amount of money paid to schools.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jan 20, 2021)

Slap47 said:


> Despising the current parties and movements does not make you no longer left/left leaning.


It necessarily does. Specifically, it means that the entire world has shifted around you, meaning that you changed your position without actually moving.

That aside, I was specifically referring to a seemingly common refrain of "I _used_ to be left-leaning, and here's why" instead of "here's why I lean left" or even "I consider myself left-leaning but the mainstream left is fucking bonkers".


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## DDBCAE CBAADCBE (Jan 20, 2021)

You all just sound like a bunch of loud bitchy faggots to me regardless of what side you’re on.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jan 20, 2021)

DDBCAE CBAADCBE said:


> You all just sound like a bunch of loud bitchy faggots to me regardless of what side you’re on.


Sounds like centrist projection to me!


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## Muh Vagina (Jan 20, 2021)

Because facts over feelings. Despite cries to the contrary, it's the conservatives who value feels over reals. They think that zygotes scream in agony during abortion, believe that two guys fucking is the sign of end times, and think that the values of our nation should be dictated by a magical sky being.


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## mario if smoke weed (Jan 20, 2021)

The left might be fucking stupid sometimes, but at least some of their ideas make sense. Switching to renewable energy sources and curbing climate change is cool. Being able to come home to a decent-quality house after an honest day's work should be the norm, not a pipe dream. Two people should be able to love, fuck and marry regardless of what's in their pants, as long as it's a mutually consensual and healthy relationship.

That, and the right gave us religious nutjobs, QAnon followers, and George W. Bush.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jan 20, 2021)

Muh Vagina said:


> Because facts over feelings. Despite cries to the contrary, it's the conservatives who value feels over reals. They think that zygotes scream in agony during abortion, believe that two guys fucking is the sign of end times, and think that the values of our nation should be dictated by a magical sky being.


Go back to 2006.


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## Muh Vagina (Jan 20, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Go back to 2006.


Don't you have an abortion clinic to bomb?


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## TFT-A9 (Jan 20, 2021)

Muh Vagina said:


> Because facts over feelings. Despite cries to the contrary, it's the conservatives who value feels over reals. They think that zygotes scream in agony during abortion, believe that two guys fucking is the sign of end times, and think that the values of our nation should be dictated by a magical sky being.


Kill yourself.  Spare yourself the agony of continuing to exist alongside these people.


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## Zero Day Defense (Jan 20, 2021)

Muh Vagina said:


> Don't you have an abortion clinic to bomb?


Why would I kill people?


----------



## FugginBawls (Jan 21, 2021)

I simply don't care about fags, trannies or abortions as much as the right do. I'm not full on lefty as I think poor people are poor a lot of the time because of their own decisions, certain 'oppressed' minorities should fix their own communities and not expect society to bend to their whims and I love my guns and the right to defend myself. 

Can't be fucked to care about religion and I also think billionaires deserve nothing but the worst. Taxes are fucking gay but they serve a purpose and that's just the way it is.


----------



## Prince of Crows (Jan 21, 2021)

I'm in a funny spot where lefties often consider me a rightie and righties often consider me a leftie. Without power levelling I'll say this comes from a European perspective rather than American. 

I support a social safety net, minimum wage and universal medical care for citizens. I've been a  member of a union since I was 18 & have always been class conscious to a degree. I'm also against foreign intervention unless there is a genuine, imminent threat.

On the other hand I despise wokeism and tokenism. I don't believe opening the borders to the world will benefit my country, the LGBT agenda is a joke, there are definitely differences between genders & races in a very general sense and I have a strong sense of patriotism.

I'm mixed race person that usually passes for white I've worked in hard, labouring jobs with members of just about every race and they've had my back and I've had theirs, so I won't ever judge anyone based on that, but I also know if I walked through a black or Pakistani area I'd be way more likely to be robbed or beaten up than if I walked through a white area. I don't really know or care why this is how things are, but I know they are that way without having to bring up autistic studies to justify to some sperg online. But that also doesn't affect how I'll treat individuals as long as they're decent.

I don't know if this makes me a leftie but I'm not definitely not on board with the right wing race war shit because that's as stupid as the trans shit woke people try to normalise.


----------



## stares at error messages (Jan 21, 2021)

Kenya Jones said:


> All of them left when the IP leaks happened.
> Posts in the lolcow.farms thread on KF almost 3 years ago.
> View attachment 1843401
> View attachment 1843403


Well, the righties get banned everywhere else except for here. What would you expect? People's politics are actually genetic, so getting rid of righties means genocide (in minecraft). Lefties just breed too much because they don't mind being a burden on others.


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## Gog & Magog (Jan 21, 2021)

I grew tired of trying to make others act the way I believe they ought to.


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## TFT-A9 (Jan 21, 2021)

Gog & Magog said:


> I grew tired of trying to make others act the way I believe they ought to.


This is at odds with "being left" right now in the same way it was at odds with "being right" 20 years ago.


----------



## CheezzyMach (Jan 21, 2021)

Because I believe in "Live and Let Live" and don't see gays and blacks as harbingers of the end times.

Also support green energy and don't think people should have to live in poverty because of "MUH TAXES".


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 22, 2021)

CheezzyMach said:


> Because I believe in "Live and Let Live" and don't see gays and blacks as harbingers of the end times.


Is that really a left wing thing anymore? I know tons of right wingers who believe in live and let live.


----------



## Dysnomia (Jan 22, 2021)

I consider myself a left leaning moderate. I usually stay away from politics though. I'm the kind that pretends to agree with anything in person as long as it's not extremist just so I don't get into an argument with an idiot.

I don't like the extreme left or right. I can't stand the SJWs or the Qtards or any of the insanity on both sides. But I am definitely not a right leaner for the most part. I don't like the idea of trannies in my bathroom or people pouring in from other countries unchecked. But I think that those are pretty understandable concerns.



The Last Stand said:


> I was considered anti-gun for a time. That failed Texas church shooting some time ago changed my mind.



Where I live there are a loot of shootings. Most of the victims are not my demographic but that doesn't mean I won't get caught in a crossfire or shot in a robbery. Sirens all night. In fact I can hear them right now. If you hear gunshots you just go back to sleep. It's amazing how desensitized you get while also being scared your number might be up. So I am not a fan of guns. I understand why people want to protect themselves. But I am more afraid of the damage others can do and quite frankly think that America's lambada with guns is a little too much.

Where I am you worry less about mass shootings by lunatics and more about Shaqondre.

It's just that neither side wants to come together and find a solution because they are both scared of losing any ground they have made. I don't believe much can be done about gun violence unless you go back in time and prevent guns from being invented. And then we would all be complaining about rocks and sticks. It's human nature that's the problem and I am not optimistic we will evolve past it into better people in my lifetime or even five lifetimes beyond.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 22, 2021)

Dysnomia said:


> Where I live there are a loot of shootings. Most of the victims are not my demographic but that doesn't mean I won't get caught in a crossfire or shot in a robbery. Sirens all night. In fact I can hear them right now. If you hear gunshots you just go back to sleep. It's amazing how desensitized you get while also being scared your number might be up. So I am not a fan of guns. I understand why people want to protect themselves. But I am more afraid of the damage others can do and quite frankly think that America's lambada with guns is a little too much.


Mexico has very strict gun laws and they still have violent drug cartels running the show. At least with a gun, you can legally defend yourself from Shaqondre if he decides to try something.



stares at error messages said:


> Well, the righties get banned everywhere else except for here. What would you expect? People's politics are actually genetic, so getting rid of righties means genocide (in minecraft). Lefties just breed too much because they don't mind being a burden on others.


People tend to vote for whatever they think is best for them. For instance, immigrants and minorities generally vote blue because the Dems pander to them and the media (which generally leans left) amplifies that message.

Yeah, there's likely a genetic component to how people vote, but assuming votes are purely biological is beyond dumb. If genes alone decided everything people do, there would be no need for marketing and propaganda.



Muh Vagina said:


> Because facts over feelings. Despite cries to the contrary, it's the conservatives who value feels over reals. They think that zygotes scream in agony during abortion, believe that two guys fucking is the sign of end times, and think that the values of our nation should be dictated by a magical sky being.


Lol, you're actually right. Both sides have delusional factions but the religious right probably takes the cake when it comes to denying reality.


----------



## The Last Stand (Jan 22, 2021)

💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> Mexico has very strict gun laws and they still have violent drug cartels running the show. At least with a gun, you can legally defend yourself from Shaqondre if he decides to try something.


Considering the cartel strongholds the Mexican government through bribery or intimidation, this makes sense.



💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> People tend to vote for whatever they think is best for them. For instance, immigrants and minorities generally vote blue because the Dems pander to them and the media (which generally leans left) amplifies that message.


They're actually losing the immigrant vote because of their open border policy with unregulated immigration.


----------



## Slap47 (Jan 28, 2021)

CheezzyMach said:


> Because I believe in "Live and Let Live" and don't see gays and blacks as harbingers of the end times.
> 
> Also support green energy and don't think people should have to live in poverty because of "MUH TAXES".





💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> Is that really a left wing thing anymore? I know tons of right wingers who believe in live and let live.



This is an example of the right wing shooting themselves in the foot.

Right wing libertarians have always existed, but right wingers who are not libertarians have embraced the label and basically ruined it.



Lil' Misogynist said:


> Though I’m definitely not a leftist, with a few exceptions, this is a very spot-on summary of my own issues with the American right-wing. Especially the bit about intentional anti-intellectualism. The science denial and culture of proud ignorance is a worrying trend. We need to stop acting like Republicans, conservatives, etc. aren’t majorly contributing to political tribalism. Also, their view of the world tends to be as bleak, angry, and soul-crushing as what I see from hardcore social justice advocates.



Priming laypeople with conspiracy theories is a great way to create loyalists. This train is not stopping. 

This is how Pinochets happen. Conspiracy theories commonly lead to people thinking the ends justifies the means and the embracing  of an extreme program.


----------



## DDBCAE CBAADCBE (Jan 28, 2021)

I think the areas were I align and differ with the left really all boil down to what I would call common sense issues. For instance I am 100% in favor of moving toward greener energy solutions, however I am also aware that many of the existing solutions are simply not cost effective or sustainable. Another good example would be the subject of abortion. While I personally think that it should be a matter of the individual’s choice I find myself also wishing that they would have to suffer the consequences of their foolish actions. Immigration is another fun one. I feel that it’s fine if you want to come and live in our country and be a productive member of society but I ask that you do it legally. This nation was built on the sweat and tears of hard working immigrants and every man woman and child should have the opportunity to come herE LEGALLY and chase the American Dream.


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## Donker (Jan 28, 2021)

Because Capitalism is a completely retarded, incoherent system (Someone explain to me how Tesla is worth more than BYD in the EV space alone, while it's valued more than the entire auto market) that is destroying the planet, has massive class contradictions and Post Embedded Liberalism, in the west has basically become a Zombie system trapping us in a state of hyper-normalisation.

Neoliberal stage of Capitalism is also extremely cancerous to society on every level. It destroys the social bonds of communities and between people, reducing everything to a market transaction (Just look at Tinder ffs), it turns the citizen into a consumer, it shifts religion away from the local community to the Corporation and product, it shifts power away from the state to the corporation, it destroys all sense of collective responsibility, it destroys the Politician and States ability to effectively manage society, the outlet of control democratically chosen by the people.

This shit cannot last. Humans_ are collective social animals_, not "individuals". Neoliberal Capitalism exists because the material nature of capitalism requires it to exist. It is a completely inhuman system and if you think we can just return to Embedded Liberalism, understand that base is a framework of the superstructure, Embedded Liberalism is never, ever returning.

If it was the 1950s, I would be a fucking Capitalist. Now, after 40 years of Neoliberal Zombie capitalism. No. There has to be something better than this shit.


----------



## Doctor Placebo (Jan 29, 2021)

Dysnomia said:


> Where I live there are a loot of shootings. Most of the victims are not my demographic but that doesn't mean I won't get caught in a crossfire or shot in a robbery. Sirens all night. In fact I can hear them right now. If you hear gunshots you just go back to sleep. It's amazing how desensitized you get while also being scared your number might be up. So I am not a fan of guns. I understand why people want to protect themselves. But I am more afraid of the damage others can do and quite frankly think that America's lambada with guns is a little too much.
> 
> Where I am you worry less about mass shootings by lunatics and more about Shaqondre.


And what are the gun control laws like in the city you live in? Most places with rampant gun violence aren't exactly big on the 2nd Amendment.



Donker said:


> If it was the 1950s, I would be a fucking Capitalist. Now, after 40 years of Neoliberal Zombie capitalism. No. There has to be something better than this shit.


So what is the "better than this shit" system? Because as shitty as the current situation is, every leftist, collectivist proposal I've seen seems guaranteed to make it exponentially worse. Especially when you look at the sort of people who would be _running_ the new collective system.

When the oligarchs are saying "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy", the people waving signs saying "abolish private property" (AKA- we'll own nothing and we'll be happy) are not the ones I'm looking to for relief. It's essentially, "They're slowly working towards making us all slaves, let's skip the middleman and make everyone slaves _right now_." Or some retarded, non-functional ancom land, where you're constantly stripped of everything you own possess by roaming druggies, as was a daily occurrence in CHAZ.

This is basically the far left's answer to censorship as well. "Mad that big tech is censoring you? LOL, should've stopped supporting capitalism and given us, the most censor-happy political movement around, control of all media platforms, you evil Nazi scum."


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Jan 29, 2021)

Slap47 said:


> Priming laypeople with conspiracy theories is a great way to create loyalists. This train is not stopping.
> 
> This is how Pinochets happen. Conspiracy theories commonly lead to people thinking the ends justifies the means and the embracing  of an extreme program.


Sadly, the left is not immune to that. They started fearmongering about Nazis, the Klan and the alt-right years ago back when those guys were mostly an irrelevant laughingstock. In 2016, it reached a point where some people believed even Republican normies were a danger.

This is where we're at now:


We have people who think a MAGA hat is a SS uniform and Pepe is a swastika. This trend is going to continue because the Democrats/big tech/the media think comparing their opponents to boogeymen is their winning ticket.



Doctor Placebo said:


> So what is the "better than this shit" system? Because as shitty as the current situation is, every leftist, collectivist proposal I've seen seems guaranteed to make it exponentially worse. Especially when you look at the sort of people who would be _running_ the new collective system.


Exactly. Capitalism is very much flawed,  but the systems lefties come up with generally seem significantly more flawed. What's the solution?


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## Penis Drager (Jan 29, 2021)

Why do I lean left? Because this chart says I do:





I'm registered Republican and am kinda a pseudo-race realist
But I also hate big corporations so there's that I guess... I wonder how Sir Oswald Mosley would place on the Political Compass


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## mr.moon1488 (Jan 29, 2021)

💗Bitchstopher Columbitch💗 said:


> Sadly, the left is not immune to that. They started fearmongering about Nazis, the Klan and the alt-right years ago back when those guys were mostly an irrelevant laughingstock. In 2016, it reached a point where some people believed even Republican normies were a danger.
> 
> This is where we're at now:
> View attachment 1879992
> ...


This is the most optimistic political cartoon I've seen in a while.


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## Pee Cola (Jan 29, 2021)

My favourite thing from the whole GME short squeeze thing is that it's become much clearer that there are two lefts: there's the Woke Left who are a bunch of privileged little shitheads to whom "struggle" is just something they read about in a textbook once, and then there's the traditional left who are cheering those wonderful WSB autists on as they smash the system from within.

If you take idpol and neo-prefixes out of the equation, traditional left and traditional right folks can get along just fine somewhere in the middle.


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## niqlo (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm not from the US so I don't really have much of an opinion about democrat/republican party there, but I would think I'm probably considered "left-leaning" because I'm not really religious at all and think that people should have the freedom to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. I support personal freedom, equal rights, legalization of marijuana, freedom of speech, gun ownership etc ( i guess I would call myself "libertarian" if I had to pick any label). If I lived in the US I wouldn't even vote, democrat or republican the same number of kids are going to get killed in drone strikes in the middle east all the same so what's even the difference?

To me there's not much point of the concept of "left-wing" and "right-wing". like, what's even the difference objectively? many people who identify as "right-wing" have pretty similar beliefs as someone on the left, they just refer to themselves as something different. In somewhere like the US politics is so polarized and you have to be one or the other, but where I live most people are pretty apolitical and laid-back. 

what's even the point of politics, really? It just makes people angry and creates conflict and argument where it's not needed. People just need to shut up and relax


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## Penis Drager (Jan 29, 2021)

Pee Cola said:


> My favourite thing from the whole GME short squeeze thing is that it's become much clearer that there are two lefts: there's the Woke Left who are a bunch of privileged little shitheads to whom "struggle" is just something they read about in a textbook once, and then there's the traditional left who are cheering those wonderful WSB autists on as they smash the system from within.
> 
> If you take idpol and neo-prefixes out of the equation, traditional left and traditional right folks can get along just fine somewhere in the middle.


I have said before that the _modern _right and the _old-school _left are actually quite similar apart from the retards they have to pander to to get elected.
The right _has to _bible thump and the left _has to _woke-thump. But the old left and the modern right actually do share a lot of common ground. This was spoken about extensively in Mencius Mouldbug's (Curtis Yarvin's) _an open letter to an open minded progressive._ It's a pretty decent essay if you want some new perspective, but he takes the whole "reactionary" thing way too far and basically advocates for a corporate autocracy. But aside from his shit solution, he does lay down the problem pretty well: that everything is shifting more "progressive" as time goes on. And "conservatives" are essentially doing nothing but slowing down the inevitable demise of [whatever it is that they're fighting to protect]. 
So perhaps this is the way it's always been: the "modern" right (for whatever time period) always gets along with the "old" left (for that very time period) precisely because the overton window is always migrating left. 
Of course, here comes Stonetoss to say what I attempted to say in a thousand words both more eloquently and succinctly:


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## Governor Jeb Bush (Jan 29, 2021)

I am more center-right-ish. But that is by the British standards... when translated to USA terms - i would be seen as left wing...

Europe is generally more 'left' overall, not overbearing left wing shit though.

overall i just want everyone to do what they'd like, and just relax really. Less working hours, more free time, etc.


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## Doctor Placebo (Jan 29, 2021)

Pee Cola said:


> My favourite thing from the whole GME short squeeze thing is that it's become much clearer that there are two lefts: there's the Woke Left who are a bunch of privileged little shitheads to whom "struggle" is just something they read about in a textbook once, and then there's the traditional left who are cheering those wonderful WSB autists on as they smash the system from within.
> 
> If you take idpol and neo-prefixes out of the equation, traditional left and traditional right folks can get along just fine somewhere in the middle.


That's the trick though isn't it? The current left is _defined_ by idpol and neoprefixes. Sure, there are a lot of lefties who say they're not into those things, but they're the portion of the left that doesn't matter. The idpol crowd runs the government, the schools, the media, everything, and the rest of the left just lets them, because to speak out against it would mean being labelled a racist Nazi.

Meanwhile on the right, it's the reverse. The white identitarians are the people who have no real power whatsoever (as far as _anyone_ on the right has any power anymore). Yet the mainstream press pretends it's the opposite, because the anti-white idpol people need a boogieman to fight.


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## TFT-A9 (Jan 29, 2021)

niqlo said:


> what's even the point of politics, really? It just makes people angry and creates conflict and argument where it's not needed. People just need to shut up and relax


Asked and answered in the same post

I can't think of a single positive thing that has ever come out of a political discussion in the past fucking 20 years or so.


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## Emperor Julian (Jan 29, 2021)

The current system is slowly sliding into oblivion if we're lucky or dystopia if not and pretty much all attempts of the right to justify or defend it are genuinly pathetic.


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## TFT-A9 (Jan 30, 2021)

Emperor Julian said:


> The current system is slowly sliding into oblivion if we're lucky or dystopia if not and pretty much all attempts of the right to justify or defend it are genuinly pathetic.


"muh law and order"

When the "law" orders you to be put against a wall do you still love that shit? This goes for EVERYONE to the right of Mao.


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## The Last Stand (Jan 30, 2021)

I considered switching to Republican after the SJW craze. But I'm lazy. And it won't make a blind bit of difference long term.


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## TFT-A9 (Jan 30, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> I considered switching to Republican after the SJW craze. But I'm lazy. And it won't make a blind bit of difference long term.


"Do you like to suck red dicks or blue dicks?"

"What the fuck I don't want to suck dicks at all you idiot."

"WE FOUND ANOTHER INCEL NAZI ALT-RIGHT WHITE SUPREMACIST!"


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## Emperor Julian (Jan 30, 2021)

Wasteland Ranger said:


> "muh law and order"
> 
> When the "law" orders you to be put against a wall do you still love that shit? This goes for EVERYONE to the right of Mao.



Thats actually my partly point, all you can do is point to worse things which can occur under left wing goverments. The current system is so pathetic you effectively have to pull an a-log: at least it's not chris=chan/maoism to defend it.  all you're really condeeding is you don't have anything to offer.


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## H3LLH4MM3R666 (Jan 31, 2021)

I used to be a republican.  In highschool I was a loner autistic edgelord that thought I was smarter than everyone else and I fantasized about swat teams coming into the school and curbstomping every stupid drug user and goth kid.  George Bush was in power and listened to the debates about the Iraq War to the best of my ability, and concluded that the mission was worth it.  Terrorists needed to be hunted down and a free state needed to be built out of Iraq.  I also somehow though that republicans were the party of big government, so I voted for Bush in 2004 because I felt that humanity needed to be saved from itself

As the years passed I saw how the wars Iraq in Afghanistan unfolded.  Katrina was a multilayered disaster and when the economy crashed in 2008 it became impossible to defend Bush anymore.  And it was only around that time that I realized that the democrats supported bigger government, but less foreign intervention.

I didn't know where to go.  I became a Ron Paul fan for a few weeks, and then realized libertarianism is dumb.  Over the years I came to support Obama more, if only because I saw more and more contradictions coming out of right-wing politicians and conservative pundits.  I listened to Rush and Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity to at least get their viewpoints.  But as time passed I kept noticing them making bad predictions, or contradicting themselves depending on who was president.  I could only conclude that they were entertainers, not providing genuine views but calculated outrage bait tailed to be what they thought they wanted their listeners to hear.

I was indifferent to the 2016 election and never thought that Trump would be a literal fascist, just really incompetent.  Which he was.  And I mocked SJWs for years but I still lean democrat on economic issues.

Another big shift- when I was in highschool I thought illegal immigrants were coming to this country to leech of welfare, as if they qualified.  And that they only did it because they were too lazy to fill out the paperwork for legal citizenship.  I became more left-wing when it come to immigration when I became more informed on the realities of our immigration system, and the fact that illegal immigrants are statistically less likely to commit violent crimes.


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## Sweetpeaa (Mar 19, 2021)

Ridge Racer said:


> However, the Democratic Party and a fair amount of their voting base has lost their minds. Now they support war, censorship, "unpersoning" others for holding the "wrong" opinions. It's sickening. Not even mentioning recently their support for the so-called "peaceful protesters" of Antifa burning down their cities and those strong people of color looting stores, while calling the rioters at Capitol "terrorists" and planning to censor anyone with a right-leaning political view. Don't get me wrong, the "Right" would likely do the same thing if they were the ones with power (much like the Religious Right of the '90s), but Republicans seem to be more interested in being the "graceful losers" (emphasis on the words "losers") if it means maintaining the status quo and lining up their own pockets with tax payer money. It's people's distaste for the "status quo" that enabled Trump to be president in the first place, but people don't seem to see that (or perhaps they refuse to see that).
> 
> Sorry for my rant. Thank you.



No. The Democratic party itself is still neoliberal and business oriented. They have not changed, they just pretend that they have in order to get votes from certain segments of the population. Republicans still use the old 'trickle down' as well but started getting more radical on abortion, anti-trans in order to appeal to single issue voters. Both parties economic policies are basically the same as they were in the 1980's.


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## Slap47 (Mar 19, 2021)

Sweetpeaa said:


> No. The Democratic party itself is still neoliberal and business oriented. They have not changed, they just pretend that they have in order to get votes from certain segments of the population. Republicans still use the old 'trickle down' as well but started getting more radical on abortion, anti-trans in order to appeal to single issue voters. Both parties economic policies are basically the same as they were in the 1980's.


Both parties are neoliberal, but also support government expansion The difference is that the Dems support more keynesian interventions in the economy and public/private partnerships, while the Republicans support believe this should be done more through the military-industrial complex. Both support austerity, deregulation, bailouts, and subsidized corporatism.


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## SITHRAK! (Mar 20, 2021)

When I lean and vote left, it's because the right has gone full retard/totally evil (case in point: Dubya's decision to lock the US into an endless war on multiple fronts in retaliation for 9/11).
When I lean and vote right, it's because the left has gone full retard/totally evil (case in point: supported Obama's first turn in the hope and belief he could heal the nation; switched right when he turned out to be a shitty meme president).
Won't switch back until the blue team stops putting corrupt, identitarian, white-hating assholes to the front of the line.


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## Zarael (Mar 20, 2021)

It's not that hard to understand why people are on the left. Progressivism has a very powerful narrative and idealistic vision for the future. The arc of history always trends towards progress and leftists really truly believe we're heading towards an inevitable humanity united as one without any barriers separating us by race, nation, religion or ideology. They think humans are all fundamentally good and it's only socioeconomic circumstances that cause people to do bad things, thus if you can change society and engineer the economy you can "solve" people committing crime by removing the only impetus for them to do so. They basically think we're destined for a Star Trek style future and a lot of them think it's their job to drag everyone kicking and screaming towards that future.

The issue is that it's superficial and doesn't mesh well with how things actually are. Will making people wealthier and giving them more opportunity lower crime? Probably but at the same time there are a lot of wealthy criminals. There's no real impetus for politicians to be so corrupt, they're certainly not forced into it by being in bad circumstances, it's just that they don't have the moral character to actually say no to all the grift and shady deals they can profit off. Ultimately people doing the right thing can't be solved by engineering society in the way the left thinks but has to come within each person, if you have a society of individuals who have a good sense of civil virtue and responsibility for themselves and others you'll probably have a good society.

It's super easy to get sucked into a vision where all humanity is united and we all drive Teslas around everywhere and nobody cares about language, skin color, ethnicity, religion or anything else and everyone treats everyone else with the highest degree of respect, but it's simply a fantasy and you can't get there with left wing policy. So they increasingly look for scapegoats to blame the frailties of the human condition on. Capitalism is the in vogue target of the day, it's capitalism that's corrupting our society. But again, while I dislike the corporate consumerism of modern day society as much as anyone else it cannot be denied that it would actually be working well if people actually had the moral conviction to be doing the right thing. The leftist will never realize that they're chasing around phantasms about why things suck when people had it figured out over 2000 years ago. It's humans, it's always been humans and you'll never create a perfect system where humans live in harmony because people are not inherently altruistic and they never will be.


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## Kornula (Mar 20, 2021)

Subtle said:


> I don't just lean left, I am a socialist. My reasons are simple. Neo-Liberalism is an autistic system that benefits the few through the sweat of the many. Recent events such as COVID-19 has simply exacerbated the growing divide between the ultra-rich and everyone else. Whole cities have become inhospitable or too expensive to live from policies going as far back as Reaganomics, with highly educated people having to two or three jobs just to survive. It's an immoral, unjust and impractical state of affairs that's vindicated only by lib-cucks or the highly privileged whose biggest issues usually revolve around not being able to date Alexa.


"Scratch the surface of a conservative and you'll get someone who wants to stay in the past.  Scratch the surface of a liberal and you'll find a closet aristocrat."

Socialism has always failed horribly every single time it's been implemented.  
Every.
Single.
Time.


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## Sweetpeaa (Mar 20, 2021)

Kornula said:


> "Scratch the surface of a conservative and you'll get someone who wants to stay in the past.  Scratch the surface of a liberal and you'll find a closet aristocrat."
> 
> Socialism has always failed horribly every single time it's been implemented.
> Every.
> ...



This last wave of Neoliberalism is a huge failure. Let's look back to the 1980's:  For the most part it was only low wage workers and high school drop outs affected by the change in social policies. Which is why there was never any middle class people rioting in Thatcher's Britain. And the American middle class loved having Ronald Reagan as a president, it was mainly blacks and factory workers who had a bone to pick with him.

Now things are very different. Highly educated people with full time jobs are struggling financially. Wages are depressed and housing costs have exploded in many cases. Only the inheritance class, CEO's, high up politicians and Chinese billionaires are enjoying the fruits of trickle down these days.


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## Jewelsmakerguy (Apr 15, 2021)

Being non-American (I think I've stated before I'm Canadian, the worst kind of North American next to America itself), I can safely say as someone looking in, The Left does have like one redeeming quality to them over the Right (at least in theory with regards to inclusivity towards other races and gender, in execution, they botch it up as bad as any right-winger does if not worse). But both sides, especially on the extremist ends of the spectrum, are the absolute worst of humanity when you get right down to it.

The main reason I can't get into the Right is all the crazy-ass shit they bring up and try to tie into QAnon; I'm still not certain what aliens, Jesus's return, or 5D transcension have to do with pedophile rings. But the reason I can't get into the Left is that they're literally just the Right, but swaps out the fucktarded conspiracies and replaces it with bullshit in-your-face preaching and unprovoked violence thanks to shit like the BLM riots. It's hard to root for either side when they're both flinging shit at one another and wind up affecting the rest of the world with it too. I mean we Canadians voted in a fucking cuck (I didn't, but you know what I mean) because he shared the last name of a mildly better, but more well-known PM, but instead has shit the bed on multiple occasions and the rest of the people in power are no better. And believe me, anyone who claims Any person in power is a god or the End-all-be-all when it comes to getting shit done, is fucking stupid. Look at America's presidents of the 21st Century-- Bush gave us the War on Terrorism, a money sink that's still going on to this day, Obama and Trump were literal Memes voted into office, with the former being beyond mediocre and the latter starting off promising with the North Korea talks and promises of getting the economy straightened out, but then shitting the bed harder than Cuckstin when it came out he was just an incompetent mid-70s manbaby who'd rather talk shit on Twitter like any of his detractors than actually do anything productive (and ruin it for the rest of the world with his whiny threats about censoring the internet). And Biden's proving himself to be a mix of both thanks to his age and very clear declining mental health.

On a personal level, I'm more the "I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me personally" kind of guy. I've questioned a lot about a lot of things, including politics and religion. And really, those are topics that I really don't like bringing up because I could rant on and on about it for hours on end. So it's less I lean left and more "I just like the right less" than anything else. Then again, I'm Canadian, so I just laugh or cringe at what both sides of the US political coin and their followers do, and bitch about what our literally-named Liberal or Progressive-Conservative governments do.


----------



## Dyn (Apr 15, 2021)

I just like doing crimes and claiming benefits, to be honest.


----------



## Yinci (Apr 15, 2021)

Economic intervention that favors the people over business

&

General humans rights as left wing (or center left) systems are non-discriminatory and law biding.

I began to Tolerate SJW's and BLM after learning about the worst the right wing has to offer such as the Turner Diaries Manifesto.
To me it seems like all Right Wing Theories other than unchained capitalism imediantly begin to revert to a primitive mentality of tribalism and colonialism with people who already live in our own county. It's pointless as fuck and I can't be a freak.

The Turner Dairies resonates weird with me. I guess you can say I worry for California. I do legitimately believe a bunch of Racist Horrocows will get together and trash California and kill a lot of people out of these poetical based antagonizations. I am happy to see BLM is armed to the teeth and seems to have a military cohesion of their own.


----------



## Bonesjones (Apr 15, 2021)

Left leg is shorter than the right


----------



## polyqueerandrosensual (Apr 15, 2021)

I'm an autistic queer sissy who can't afford the insane costs of education and healthcare in the USA.

That said, I still hate niggers, and love white men. Finding other leftists like me is damn near impossible.


----------



## TheRetardKing (Apr 15, 2021)

Because somebody put a knife in my head and I'm gonna fall down and die. Okay! Bye... 
**THUD!****


----------



## Flavius Claudius Julianus (Apr 15, 2021)

I held quasi-lefty, liberal views throughout my teens and much of my twenties. I was deeply involved in the arts at the time, so there were many people close to me who were anywhere on the spectrum of centre-left - to those who were more centrist in their beliefs, to downright near lunatic lefties (but nobody anywhere close to the woke idiots of today.)

Late twenties and onward, I started educating myself more and more where it concerned economic policy, the effects of migration, and identity politics. As of right now, I guess I'd be quote left leaning by the standards of the 1990s at its latest. Today, I'm a bigoted racist who hates minorities, not to mention a white supremacist. 

I think if you're a lefty by today's standards, you need to seriously educate yourself on what is going on in the world today. Because it's pure insanity what the left is pushing now, and very, very little stands up to even basic rigour and analysis.


----------



## Mnutu (Apr 15, 2021)

Why do I lean left? I don’t.


----------



## Sweetpeaa (Apr 15, 2021)

Jewelsmakerguy said:


> Being non-American (I think I've stated before I'm Canadian, the worst kind of North American next to America itself), I can safely say as someone looking in, The Left does have like one redeeming quality to them over the Right (at least in theory with regards to inclusivity towards other races and gender, in execution, they botch it up as bad as any right-winger does if not worse). But both sides, especially on the extremist ends of the spectrum, are the absolute worst of humanity when you get right down to it.
> 
> The main reason I can't get into the Right is all the crazy-ass shit they bring up and try to tie into QAnon; I'm still not certain what aliens, Jesus's return, or 5D transcension have to do with pedophile rings. But the reason I can't get into the Left is that they're literally just the Right, but swaps out the fucktarded conspiracies and replaces it with bullshit in-your-face preaching and unprovoked violence thanks to shit like the BLM riots. It's hard to root for either side when they're both flinging shit at one another and wind up affecting the rest of the world with it too. I mean we Canadians voted in a fucking cuck (I didn't, but you know what I mean) because he shared the last name of a mildly better, but more well-known PM, but instead has shit the bed on multiple occasions and the rest of the people in power are no better. And believe me, anyone who claims Any person in power is a god or the End-all-be-all when it comes to getting shit done, is fucking stupid. Look at America's presidents of the 21st Century-- Bush gave us the War on Terrorism, a money sink that's still going on to this day, Obama and Trump were literal Memes voted into office, with the former being beyond mediocre and the latter starting off promising with the North Korea talks and promises of getting the economy straightened out, but then shitting the bed harder than Cuckstin when it came out he was just an incompetent mid-70s manbaby who'd rather talk shit on Twitter like any of his detractors than actually do anything productive (and ruin it for the rest of the world with his whiny threats about censoring the internet). And Biden's proving himself to be a mix of both thanks to his age and very clear declining mental health.
> 
> On a personal level, I'm more the "I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me personally" kind of guy. I've questioned a lot about a lot of things, including politics and religion. And really, those are topics that I really don't like bringing up because I could rant on and on about it for hours on end. So it's less I lean left and more "I just like the right less" than anything else. Then again, I'm Canadian, so I just laugh or cringe at what both sides of the US political coin and their followers do, and bitch about what our literally-named Liberal or Progressive-Conservative governments do.



Canada is not liberal. Fiscally nor socially. Our immigration system is extremely selective, we spend less on social programs than any other country and abortion was nearly re-criminalised in this country less than 30 years ago and passed by a very narrow vote (I believe one vote) for this not to happen. Don't be fooled by ''peoplekind'' and ''I'm a feminist'' (Trudeau's assertion). It is just a ruse. Corrupt faux ''free market'' policies has caused half our real estate to be bought up be Chinese drug dealers in a money laundering scheme.


----------



## Jewelsmakerguy (Apr 15, 2021)

Sweetpeaa said:


> Canada is not liberal. Fiscally nor socially. Our immigration system is extremely selective, we spend less on social programs than any other country and abortion was nearly re-criminalised in this country less than 30 years ago and passed by a very narrow vote (I believe one vote) for this not to happen. Don't be fooled by ''peoplekind'' and ''I'm a feminist'' (Trudeau's assertion). It is just a ruse. Corrupt faux ''free market'' policies has caused half our real estate to be bought up be Chinese drug dealers in a money laundering scheme.


Can you tell I don't pay attention to a lot of this shit?


----------



## DeadFish (Apr 15, 2021)

Boating accident.


----------



## MarvelousMess (Apr 17, 2021)

Dave. said:


> If there's any left leaning users on this site, I'm curious to know why you lean this way. No hatred from me and no I'm not accusing you of any of the actions that have happened recently in America, I'm curious what policies you agree with and why.


Not putting myself in a box, but if you say one or the other I would be left. I do not agree with all left ideals though, I work in human services where left ideals tend to lean more to helping my clients which is part of why I often vote this way. Really though, why be cattle and be pushed into having to choose without knowing exact stances?  Going in  solid blue or solid red is just being blind.


----------



## ClownBrew (Apr 18, 2021)

polyqueerandrosensual said:


> I'm an autistic queer sissy who can't afford the insane costs of education and healthcare in the USA.
> 
> That said, I still hate niggers, and love white men. Finding other leftists like me is damn near impossible.



You might be surprised at how much company you actually have out there.  Leftos drove out the entire working class when they got blacked and also welcomed herds of Salvadoran gangsters into the construction industry. And there are plenty of fags who won't step foot in the ghetto because they know damn well where the real risk of hate beatings is most likely.


----------



## Dude Christmas (Apr 18, 2021)

I don't now but I was for years.


----------



## Rupert Bear (Apr 18, 2021)

If there's a single thing i agree with the left on, it's that suburbs are cancer, specially american style ones


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## Legoshi (May 22, 2021)

I don't agree with the modern-day left and their divisive identity politics, but I lean left because I don't agree with how the right handles everything and their views. While I believe in controlled immigration and national identity, I'm pro-choice, gun control, for taxes and pro-individualist.


----------



## gooseberry-picker (May 22, 2021)

Fairytales are fun, biggit


----------



## Sargon's wife's son (May 22, 2021)

So I can hit the blacks with my car without having to drive on the sidewalk


----------



## Rupert Bear (May 22, 2021)

Actually, something non-meme, and more risque i agree with the left on:
The family unit is overrated. We shouldn't entirely erase it marxist conspiracy style, But no one should have any obligation to live by the rules of a shitty household and be tied to an abusive family for years just for being your family, like some sort of coin toss where it is determined from birth whether you're gonna have a shitty time growing up or not. Specially since everyone is eventually supposed to leave their family behind for some time to learn how to integrate into the outer world anyways. Any family that hinders this opportunity should be considered dysfunctional.
And no, i also don't mean replacing the nuclear family with the extended family either. If anything that kind only amplifies issues like privacy, housing, or having shitty relatives ten times more.


----------



## A Welsh Cake (May 22, 2021)

I don’t even know which political direction any of my values lean anymore. I’m a centrist because being nice to people is ideally both political directions


----------



## Kornula (May 23, 2021)

My testicles lean right.. thank you very much


----------



## Drain Todger (May 23, 2021)

I was quite left-wing throughout much of the 2000s. I didn't like the wars. I thought they were pointless. What the hell did Iraq and Afghanistan have to do with Osama Bin Laden? Nothing. Nothing at all. Our leaders threw trillions of dollars down the drain and squandered what little goodwill America had left on the world stage. We went from being respected to being despised, and we paid handsomely for the privilege. Meanwhile, our infrastructure is visibly decaying and our once-great cities are being overtaken by drug abuse, homelessness, and third-world poverty. Lording over this mess is a class of Rentier Capitalists who contribute absolutely nothing to society of any value whatsoever. They have monetized human behavior by tracking every little thing we do, online and off, and selling targeted advertisements at us. They sell us the same sweatshop-made gadgets year in, year out. The richest people on Wall Street profit immensely off of paper-shuffling exercises that border on fraud, and every time their gambling creates and then collapses a bubble and causes a depression, people lose their jobs, and some portion of those people who lose their jobs end up eating the barrel of a gun, slitting their wrists in a bathtub, or ODing on their couch. There are people from my generation who have been working full-time jobs for over a decade, and home ownership completely evades their grasp. Their futures have been strangled in the crib. Creeping censorship and COINTELPRO tactics are used to suppress dissent and hound people into an early grave if they question any of this.

I woke up one day, and none of these things mattered to the Left anymore. After being completely overtaken by identity politics, they now follow astroturfed movements openly sponsored by hundreds of big-name corporations. They parrot ideas fed to them by DC think tanks and other special interests that receive millions of dollars from fake philanthropists looking to exert political power with their filthy money. They sit around in a Starbucks, man bun and cashmere sweater and MacBook and all, congratulating each other for being revolutionaries, when at ten paces, you can't even tell any of 'em apart. They care more about the representation of minorities in novels, comic books, and TV shows than they do about average people being able to make ends meet.
















The psychopaths at the helm of our society with undeserved money and power have always been able to twist things so that they keep winning and the rest of us keep losing. _Divide et impera. _A working class split against itself by a media that amplifies frivolities until they become political flashpoints can never develop enough concentrated power to advocate for our interests. When we rise up together on matters of economic class, the powers-that-be viciously divide us by race, by gender, by sexuality, knowing full well that class issues will be swept under the rug as a result.


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## Kornula (Jun 1, 2021)

Drain Trodger:  I too used to be a screaming liberal.  Now, I'm just screaming at everyone.  I realized back in 2008, just after St. Obummer was elected that all the yelling and screaming in the streets for the past 50 years has accomplished... nothing.

What is even sadder today about every single liberal/Democrat today is that they still think screaming, shouting and name calling is going to help better the world.


----------



## jewelry investor (Jun 1, 2021)

I recline to the left to help with digestion


----------



## Don't Tread on Me (Jun 1, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> To add what @Syaoran Li said:
> 
> Remember when the Religious Right took over every aspect of life in the 70s and 80s? The 90s were a counterculture to that control. Not even "left-leaning" per se, just people were tired of being told what and how to act.
> 
> ...


Conservatism is the new counterculture. The right has no power anymore.


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## Stoneheart (Jun 1, 2021)

You can see that? well one of my legs is a tiny bit shorter...


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## Gig Bucking Fun (Jun 1, 2021)

Cuz my right leg is taller


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## SouthernBitchBob (Jun 1, 2021)

I did, until I figured out they were just as psycho as the religious moonbats on the right. They were just better at hiding it before they took the metaphorical throne(s).


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## Adolphin (Jun 6, 2021)

I accidently hit my left shoulder.


----------



## KiwiFuzz (Jun 8, 2021)

I don't currently align with any political party 100% in burgerland, but the dems get my vote most of the time and various further-left candidates and groups get it some of the time. Like in 2016 I wrote in Bernie because Hillary is gross. But here's a stab at where I am at:

*I think humans are evil little monkeys. Our natural instincts are base and selfish. *

The right wing sells this vision of a country where every man is a king on his own land and every businessman is this righteous provider of jobs and goods. If humans were all good and wise, this would be great. But this way of thinking leads to degraded land, horrible neighbors, no worker protections, and so forth. 

And my skepticism extends to shit like the right-wing antipathy towards social services and public school. I don't want to live next to a pack of feral kids who are hungry and ignorant. I don't want a shantytown in my neighborhood. 

I'm also deeply distrustful of the MIC, and the republicans insisting that we need to dump buckets of money into this enormous military while not being able to afford shit like basic healthcare for everyone is ridiculous. (I know the dems are just as bad about the MIC, but they at least pretend to be better.)

I look at the end game of republican thinking and it seems like a Latin American shithole where rich people live either behind walls or on grand country estates while everyone who isn't rich lives in a dump and fights over crumbs.

I have a long list of shit I don't like about the democrats. They give too many people the benefit of the doubt and there are too many institutions and ideologies that they are overly invested in protecting. But there are only a couple issues that I really have a parting of the ways with them over, troon shit being one.

Ultimately, we need to build a society that makes it easy for people to make good choices and be good citizens. I think the US, for the most part, is pretty good at threading the needle between personal freedom and government regulation and redistribution. But I think a lot of the history of how we got where we are today is a history of left-wing ideas prevailing against right-wing opposition. 

I hope this is what the OP is looking for.


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## Kornula (Jun 8, 2021)

H3LLH4MM3R666 said:


> I used to be a republican.  In highschool I was a loner autistic edgelord that thought I was smarter than everyone else and I fantasized about swat teams coming into the school and curbstomping every stupid drug user and goth kid.  George Bush was in power and listened to the debates about the Iraq War to the best of my ability, and concluded that the mission was worth it.  Terrorists needed to be hunted down and a free state needed to be built out of Iraq.  I also somehow though that republicans were the party of big government, so I voted for Bush in 2004 because I felt that humanity needed to be saved from itself
> 
> As the years passed I saw how the wars Iraq in Afghanistan unfolded.  Katrina was a multilayered disaster and when the economy crashed in 2008 it became impossible to defend Bush anymore.  And it was only around that time that I realized that the democrats supported bigger government, but less foreign intervention.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but President Trump was not a dictator.  He is a blowhard..but not once did he remove a single line from the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.   Please pull your head out of your ass


----------



## JektheDumbass (Jun 8, 2021)

I consider myself a left-leaning libertarian.  I feel that the government should only concern itself with national defense and keeping the strong from exploiting the small.  Otherwise, let me smoke dope and go to gay weddings and gift the happy couple engraved His and His AR-15s.


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## Tranimal Farm (Jun 9, 2021)

I'm a republican nationalist but I'm not american, in my country nationalist movements and republicanism have been historically left leaning.


----------



## Jeff Boomhauer (Jun 9, 2021)

I lean to the left until the song tells me to lean to the right.


----------



## Smug Chuckler (Jun 9, 2021)

I lean to the left because I want to fart quietly.


----------



## Jack Haywood (Jun 10, 2021)

"We build your houses, your castles, we pave your roads and still you walk all over us."

Back when I was a lad playing Super Mario 64, that's what the Whomp King said to Mario before he was fought. Why am I even mentioning this, might you ask? That seems pretty autistic, you might say.

Because when I saw this question, that quote came to mind. The logical flaw within capitalism is that not only does it involve holding down the very people who, if their money wasn't being gobbled up by fees and hikes from privatised utility and transport companies would have more leeway financially, but also work day after day in the most mind-numbingly dull jobs that don't hold a lot of prestige but are the very roles that, if nobody was performing them, the ones at the top would have no high-rise office towers to strut about in behaving as if they truly earned their way in life despite the fact that they would never have been able to get to those high places without the immense inheritances and connections they typically possess. Demeaning anyone ending up on benefits as needing to get a job despite any inability to, or denying the reality of their poverty just for having a mobile phone or a huge TV or smoking cigarettes, as if they don't deserve even the slightest distraction from their miserable lives.

In other words, capitalism rewards those already rewarded well and punishes those already punished well in life, especially those the upper classes wouldn't be at the top without.

I'm not denying that life in the West is still quite easy for people compared to a lot of other places in the world, but even then it's only like that because great powers are usually at play to keep the poorer nations 'in their place' as well. It's no surprise that most Middle Eastern nations, the ones usually ranted about as being shitholes by people in Western countries, are typically much poorer, same with African countries. Also, their economies are more primary sector dominant while the West in general is more tertiary sector dominant.

And again, that's not to say that there are other legitimate factors at play such as a lot of them being dictatorships with human rights issues, as well as seriously flawed religious/cultural traditions. I'm not pretending everything is as simple as "anyone poor is being deliberately oppressed by THE RICH!!!" but I still believe it is a primary factor in what is wrong with the world.

Another thing to mention: I don't think anyone is evil simply for being right wing. Everything has to cast an opposing shadow in human society, and political orientation happens just as naturally as sexuality or personality traits, so it would be irrational to do so. I don't think my subjective opinions are objective facts, I just happen to feel strongly about this, obviously.


----------



## Absurdist Laughter (Jun 10, 2021)

Kornula said:


> Sorry, but President Trump was not a dictator.  He is a blowhard..but not once did he remove a single line from the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.   Please pull your head out of your ass


Yeah, the sign of a dictator is the amount of Executive Orders according to President Biden...should we tell him?


----------



## cuddle striker (Jun 10, 2021)

I'm pretty far left-leaning. I've just seen a lot of people who died hard, people who've lived hard and for no reason. Life is not fair, of course, and there's no changing it- but there's no need to be an asshole about it. If we can afford to help people (and we can), being a spiteful asshole is the only reason not to, and I don't abide with that.

In addition we are not living in the past. I would prefer progress into the future over conserving past traditions. The religious right especially seems determined to shape humanity into a throwback to the dark ages.

I've nothing against everyday religious people, though, I can see that there's a need for many people to have that sense of community and comfort from it. Nothing wrong with that. Trying to control others and force them into following the structure of a religious belief through governance is repellent to me though, the USA and the middle eastern nations have that in common and it's one of the reasons I lean left.

I'd say I'm Democratic socialist but I like my guns and hunting far too much to fully jump in, there.

I don't give a damn about trump, if you're still talking about him you're in a cult at this point. (whether it's positive or negative talk).  He's not going to be in any position of power ever again, he's ancient and feeble-minded. In the 90s, he was sharp enough but that's long gone. He had the luck of the retarded on his side for a few years but it's over. Politicians fade from relevance, one day you'll realize that's all he was, another shitty politician.


----------



## Raisin Boy (Jun 10, 2021)

cuddle striker said:


> I'm pretty far left-leaning. I've just seen a lot of people who died hard, people who've lived hard and for no reason. Life is not fair, of course, and there's no changing it- but there's no need to be an asshole about it. If we can afford to help people (and we can), being a spiteful asshole is the only reason not to, and I don't abide with that.
> 
> In addition we are not living in the past. I would prefer progress into the future over conserving past traditions. The religious right especially seems determined to shape humanity into a throwback to the dark ages.
> 
> ...


There is a _very_ strong leftist precedent for gun ownership.  Believe it or not, genuine leftists don't want to take your guns away.  Even people like me only imagine a new paradigm for arming the general public.  Gun control is liberal garbage, a Band-Aid solution that doesn't address the root cause of gun violence, the same as all liberal policy.


----------



## cuddle striker (Jun 10, 2021)

ACTION said:


> There is a _very_ strong leftist precedent for gun ownership.  Believe it or not, genuine leftists don't want to take your guns away.  Even people like me only imagine a new paradigm for arming the general public.  Gun control is liberal garbage, a Band-Aid solution that doesn't address the root cause of gun violence, the same as all liberal policy.


well yes, but center-left does support gun control and all of that. it's why I'm left but not willing to peg myself to one of the center left parties. I'm just leaning left and the history of say, black panther gun activism, union battles, all of that, inform my stance. 

you don't need to speak to me as if I was not a genuine leftist. there are other people reading along who are probably unaware that many of us on the left are gun people.


----------



## Raisin Boy (Jun 10, 2021)

cuddle striker said:


> union battles


Oh shit, bet, we're on the same page then.  Sorry, I spend a lot of time talking to libs, so I'm too used to repeating more or less those exact same words.


----------



## Cyclonus (Jun 10, 2021)

Well I was going to say something about having one leg shorter than the other, but I'm not reading through ten pages to see if it's already been done. So I'll just say that a system where the richest 10 percent control 89 percent of the wealth is fucking bullshit. And I can understand right wingers concern about big government but I can't understand their blind faith in big buisness. Although big buisness would agree with me when it suits them, they're the first ones to go whining for government bailouts when things aren't going well for them. Privatise the gains and socialise the losses, that's their motto.


----------



## Drain Todger (Jun 13, 2021)

I'm against mindless consumerism and sweatshops, I'm against globalism, I'm against Wall Street pissing our lives away and paying us a pittance to live, and I'm against supranational institutions, glowies, governments, alphabet agencies, and shady NGOs stripping our personal freedoms and privacy away at the behest of an unaccountable power elite. What am I?

If you ask a leftist today, I'm a fascist, but this was actually the Left twenty years ago.


----------



## Slap47 (Jun 15, 2021)

I made a few long posts on this thread going issue by issue on why I lean left, but its stuff like this as why I can't support them despite all that. No socialist or progressive party in the world supports free speech. Whether that be comrades who hate kulaks, bourgeois comrades who hate racism, or Harvard elites that want some kind of technocratic dystopia where people will own nothing, have no freedoms, and be happy with it. 




Raisin Boy said:


> There is a _very_ strong leftist precedent for gun ownership.  Believe it or not, genuine leftists don't want to take your guns away.  Even people like me only imagine a new paradigm for arming the general public.  Gun control is liberal garbage, a Band-Aid solution that doesn't address the root cause of gun violence, the same as all liberal policy.


“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.” - George Orwell

A few socialists will say "hell yeah, arm the people", but if you corner them on a discussion regarding gun control they'll conform to the generic liberal position. Most socialism is a larp in developed countries.


----------



## Stormy Daniel's Lawyer (Jun 15, 2021)

I only lean left when I'm driving and I want to crop dust the passenger side of the car.

I remember when the left fought tooth and nail for privacy rights. Now they want the government to have access to our phones, email, texts, social media posts, medical records, etc..

I remember when the left used to stand up against tyranny, but now they have embraced it with open arms. The ACLU would fight for anyone, but now they have turned their backs on religious and conservative pleas for assistance. 

I remember when the left fought for equal justice for all. Now its Social Justice, Environmental Justice, blah, blah, blah..

The New Left is the Old Far Right. Fascism stirred in a big old stew of shit and Marxism.


----------



## Dial M for Misgender (Jun 15, 2021)

Just muscle memory. And abortion, I love abortion.


----------



## Raisin Boy (Jun 15, 2021)

Slap47 said:


> “That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.” - George Orwell
> 
> A few socialists will say "hell yeah, arm the people", but if you corner them on a discussion regarding gun control they'll conform to the generic liberal position. Most socialism is a larp in developed countries.


Frustratingly, it's always the anarchists that are the biggest allies on this, but anarchists are rarely (if ever) to be taken seriously.  Stupid anarchists, they ruined anarchy.

That being said, when you cut through the highly online, LARP'ing socialists and speak directly to unionized workers, you find that they're relatively firm on the second amendment.  It depends on where you are.  Sometimes you'll find a little wiggle room on gun control policy, often things like red flag laws.  That's about it.



Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> I remember when the left fought tooth and nail for privacy rights. Now they want the government to have access to our phones, email, texts, social media posts, medical records, etc..


I don't know which leftists aren't advocating for privacy rights.  We still carry the torch for the NSA leaks, the PATRIOT act, and we despise the alphabet agencies.  The progressive flank of leftism is sometimes retarded enough to compromise their (weak commitment to) beliefs and integrity to fuck over a reactionary, no matter the cost, though.  I don't doubt what you say, but I think I'd like to understand what you're referring to.


Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> I remember when the left used to stand up against tyranny, but now they have embraced it with open arms. The ACLU would fight for anyone, but now they have turned their backs on religious and conservative pleas for assistance.


You're making me feel old with these comments.  Maybe I'm thinking back far enough that I'm remembering the ACLU for coming to the defense of conservatives when appropriate, but unless they've stopped doing that, I don't know that they're some kind of particularly leftist organization.  We still talk about tyrants a lot though.  Leftist spaces platform way more talk about foreign tyrants and abusive states than the mainstream media does.  In my experience, anyway.


Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> I remember when the left fought for equal justice for all. Now its Social Justice, Environmental Justice, blah, blah, blah..


I mean you got me there, even my own friends spend way too much time on social justice.  I get called a "class reductionist" a lot these days.  Environmental justice is a mediocre but not totally worthless talking point, though.  It's fucked up when your tiny Pacific Island nation has like 50 cars but it's the first country that's going to get sunk off the map.


Stormy Daniel's Lawyer said:


> The New Left is the Old Far Right. Fascism stirred in a big old stew of shit and Marxism.


They're not fascist.  The people I think you intend to describe are something far, far worse: _liberal progressives._  They're like fascists, but instead of killing you, they email your boss because you said the "n-slur" back in 2014.


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## Maxxicus Callahan (Jun 15, 2021)

But seriously besides Soviet aesthetics, there needs to be some ambition to reach the stars and strive for the very best possible world in terms of human health, habitability of our planet for future generations and mutual cooperation amongst nations which is neither left nor right its more pro humanity and we all have our disagreements on how to get there naturally and how realistic that is is yet to be determined. But I'd rather space was a project for mankind not one reserved for rich elites like Musk and Bezos similar in the film Elysium. No billionaire needs to become a trillionaire, the richest can start paying their taxes and stop stashing their wealth in the Cayman Islands while the rest of us squabble for the crumbs and bones politicians throw us.

Edit: we should dream more on our lost futures and seek out new paths to get there, without the upheaval and bloodshed of the last century. We still inhabit the world of Francis Fukuyama's end of history in a way, the war of ideologies is over global capitalism is the predominant ruling ideology and it is easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism. It is really a time to start thinking of possibilities outside of market forces. If anyone had told you before the pandemic  that Trump would nationalize production of masks under war time measures acts you would have been written off as some pie in the sky socialist but even him and Theresa May amongst others were enacting protocols for taking some action to mobilize society so certain actions can be taken outside of capitalism and indicators of GDP to solve major societal problems that won't lead to a gulag at the end of the road. Automation can free up more time for us to work on other problems and also give us leisure time for family life and yet rather than celebrate that fact we fear losing jobs. Our predecessors in the early twentieth century would have thought that technological innovation and overproduction by now would have granted us such an existence but it hasn't in fact we are working longer hours for lower pay generally speaking, why is that.

Take it from Jesse Ventura


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## Jaimas (Jun 17, 2021)

I have always been an oldschool Dem. Classic left, not the crazy kind, able to find common cause with virtually anyone.

I grew up with a mom who was a real firebrand leftie who genuinely fought for causes she believed in - getting hit by water cannons during a civil rights protest when she was a teenager, exposing the Town Parks Department for flagrant breaches of the law well into her sixties, and pushing to keep art uncensored, even when her position wasn't popular. She used to tell me, all the time, that when you see an outrage mob starting in over "obscenity," usually a saucy book or art piece, you need to push back on it because no matter what side the outrage is coming from, "it will never stop at tits."

She was right, and throughout my developmental years, I got to see _both sides _do this shit, over and over and over. Throughout all of it, if there was anything about the whole thing that made me angry enough that I could longpost on it, it was the fact that there was no tangible difference between the parties at the level that mattered. Dubya gets in? Business as usual. Obama gets in with a supermajority in all three braches of government? That's some fine shitting your pants and doing nothing, Dems, way to go. Triangulation and failure was the watchword of the Democrats and I got to watch, over and over again, as the Dems not only failed to deliver on basically even the most zero-effort legislation on shit that should have been an up-or-down vote, but then danced a jig over how they intended to keep doing it.

Needless to say, I left in 2010 and I will never return, knowing what I do now.


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## skjora (Jun 18, 2021)

Guess I'm left from an American perspective, though I count among the right where I'm at. I'm a nationalist, and I think that a sensible amount of collectivism strengthens the nation and its people to such an extent that it's worth the cost in individual liberty. Unity beats fragmentation, but of course too much collectivism (the amount of which varies with country and culture) leads to the latter the same way too little does.


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## stupid orc (Jun 18, 2021)

to get pussy, no it didn't work.


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## H3LLH4MM3R666 (Jun 26, 2021)

Kornula said:


> Sorry, but President Trump was not a dictator.  He is a blowhard..but not once did he remove a single line from the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.   Please pull your head out of your ass


You misunderstand, I said that trump isn't a fascist.  He's just an incompetent president


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## Kornula (Jun 26, 2021)

H3LLH4MM3R666 said:


> You misunderstand, I said that trump isn't a fascist.  He's just an incompetent president


Nope


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## Truman the Jewman (Jun 26, 2021)

H3LLH4MM3R666 said:


> You misunderstand, I said that trump isn't a fascist.  He's just an incompetent president


Franklin Pierce was an incompetent president. Trump just hurt people's fee-fees because he's an old man. You think he's bad? You should have heard my great grandpa talk about the Japanese after fighting them in the Pacific. That was some un-PC shit


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## Indefinite_Ordered_Sets (Jun 26, 2021)

I've grown too fast, so now having some problem with posture, but its almost unnoticeable.


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## Soulless4510 (Jun 26, 2021)

Because of how I was raised and I obviously lean left, I do see the value of conservatism, but the problem is I've seen conservatism morph into one of the biggest grifts this side of the Mason Dixie.

Now don't get me wrong the left has its share of grifters and most of them are low cows on this site but it seems to me many people have forgotten how just unrelentingly hypocritical the right has been over the past 40 years.

And now it seems the only people who have any common sense left are The ones getting drowned out by social media by Facebook, Google, Twitter, and et cetera and et cetera. I have no idea how you can get out of it because everything else has become just so combative. But maybe it always has been this way and now we just have it in 4K so who knows.


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## MrJokerRager (Jun 26, 2021)

I am an independent these days for the most part who supported Bernie in 2016 and shifted to Trump in 2020 since he supported old school left wing policies like tariffs, reducing immigration, making a serious attempt to end the forever wars and trying to bring some sense of nationalism back that old school progressives supported in the early 1900s. Many of Trump's positions are former Democrat positions before Neoliberalism and Reagan happened.


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## Nigger Respecter (Jun 27, 2021)

I want workers to get paid more and I want no one to ever have to worry about their healthcare. Also I think the defense budget could be a hell of a lot smaller. Beyond that though, I don't care too much if people have guns or whatever. I also think most of the identity politic shit on the left has no goal in mind beyond some neverending search for "inclusivity." I'm sitting in the unfortunate position of finding most people on the far right to be amoral monsters but pretty chill to interact with, while the people that are on the far left (where I am "supposed" to be) are some of the most pathetic fucking weasels on the planet and I hate pretty much everything they do, even if we are on the same page about some things. Fuck


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## H3LLH4MM3R666 (Jun 27, 2021)

Hermann the German said:


> Franklin Pierce was an incompetent president. Trump just hurt people's fee-fees because he's an old man. You think he's bad? You should have heard my great grandpa talk about the Japanese after fighting them in the Pacific. That was some un-PC shit


Trump saying offensive things is at the bottom of my list of concerns.  He's not as bad as Bush was, but still not good.


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## My world my rules (Jul 25, 2021)

I consider myself slightly left leaning because i tend to agree with the general left's politics more than the right's general ideals. But in recent time it's all become so fuzzy with radical leftists growing louder and louder. But that doesn't change my core values. I won't judge you if you do not hold the same ideals as me, just don't be a scumbag about it, nothing is perfect at it's core.


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## Hepativore (Dec 4, 2021)

This is going to be relatively long as I just found this thread and it is hard to cram all of my opinions into one post.

I am an American, so I do not know how things are in other countries, but I consider myself a progressive leftist. While the SJWs and "wokeness" have left a bad taste in many people's mouths, in terms of how people perceive the "left" in my country, I think that the biggest threat to individual freedom and liberty is wealth inequality and how much power private corporations have in regards to control over the political system as well as the rise of corporate censorship.

As many have pointed out, when people refer to the political left, that can mean being socially liberal but economically conservative, or socially conservative but economically liberal or both. There is a lot of confusion about what being on the political left actually means, especially in my country. This is because while the Republican party is generally conservative in both the social and economic sense, the Democratic party is largely center-right when it comes to economic issues and foreign policy and masquerades as a left-leaning party by cloaking itself in woke language and intent while doing little to nothing to help people who are poor and reducing the income gap. They also get just as much money for their electoral campaigns as the Republicans do, albeit from different industries. The modern Democratic party is not the party of FDR anymore as it has been taken over by Third Way Democrats since the late-1980's and has since been "liberal" in the neoliberal sense. Overall, while I think the political left has largely won and has dominated American social and cultural narratives since the 1960's, the political right has largely won when it comes to things like economic issues, foreign policy, law enforcement, labor issues, etc. 

Regardless of which of the two parties are in charge, we have let corporations basically erode labor rights, wasted huge amounts of money and lives on pointless military adventures, ignored the fourth amendment because of warrantless surveillance from both public and private institutions, increased income inequality, gave massive tax breaks to the wealthy and allowed corporate tax havens overseas, allowed healthcare to be legalized corporate fraud, and let housing costs skyrocket. I consider myself a leftist because I disagree with all of the above, and while I hate how SJWs and the woke have jumped on the censorship bandwagon, I am all for civil rights and free speech. However, unlike SJWs, I do not think that anybody should be bullied, harassed, or canceled for their personal opinions no matter how offensive I might find them to be as long as nobody is directly threatened with harm or violence.

Finally, here are some older videos that explain the dichotomy between SJWs and true leftists. It is somewhat confusing because while "left" and "liberal" are used interchangeably by many people in my country, they have come to mean different things for reasons I talked about above.


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## Niggernerd (Dec 4, 2021)

I have severe brain damage and get easily flustered by facts, criticism and people not giving me praise for shit i didn't do.


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## Anonymus Fluhre (Dec 4, 2021)

Because I wish to be a cholo?


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## The-Patriarchy (Dec 4, 2021)

Once upon a time I would've been considered a left-leaning centrist who leaned right on some issues. Over time I've seen the overton window shift so far left that I'm considered to be basically Hitler without changing a single position. 

Now I've shifted "Down" more towards libertarian. (left is... left, right irght, up is authoritarian, down is libertarian.

I'm also only moderately leaning libertarian- I support reasonable "fair" regulation- if it is the minimally impacting regulation to encourage fairness. I think there is room for some liberal positions, and some conservative positions, if personal freedom is respected above all- I am all for gun rights (outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!), I am actually pro-choice (mostly- abortions get really disturbing the longer a pregancy is allowed to go but I recognize there are medical situations, or even rape/incest scenarios that make me unwilling to ban choice), I am mostly fiscally conservative, I would like to see a viable universal healthcare- but one that actually works cant pop into existence out of nowhere and would have to gradually evolve as we move closer to post-scarcity. I would be more open to the more moderate left positions if we were in a post-scarcity society, but when resources are limited, there are realities that are better addressed through fair competitive practices. I'd like to see poverty go away, but it will never go away by arbitrarily wishing more money into existence and handing it out or mandating higher minimum wages. The path I see that works is improving education, creating more opportunities, and giving more guidance to finding viable opportunities. Some people will still fail, but our current educational system and the way we hire and train for jobs is somewhat dysfunctional ad convinces many people that they can't succeed- meanwhile people who are really not competent can still succeed- not because of systemic racism like some would preach, but because the system is dysfunctional in general and can be intentionally or unintentionally gamed. An educational system that spends more effort on helping people find their niche and get their careers off the ground would have more value than the sink or swim system we have now.

I also fully recognize that the more idealistic things I'd like to see are not things that can be instantly willed into existence and have any expectation of working. Most of the left these days seems to have developed the idea that you can make any system you want in the blink of an eye by just wishing it to be so, which is a gross oversimplification of reality, bordering on delusion.


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## YourFriendlyLurker (Dec 5, 2021)

Since in 2021 the words lost all meaning idk who I am anymore.

1) I am pro-choice
2) I am pro speech, even if we have Taliban on one side and tranny fag on the other
2) I am pro LGB's rights to form unions and adopt kids
3) I am totally against prides and other public degeneracy. Want to get fisted in public - get your 100 lashes.
4) I am pro-gun (sadly in my shithole country we don't have that)
5)  Laissez-faire for middle and small business, and antimonopoly regulations for large (Apple and Google, get fucked)

I'd day it make me a libertarian, but in a modern twatter terms I'm probably a nazi.


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## Duke Nukem (Dec 5, 2021)

stupid orc said:


> to get pussy, no it didn't work.


Why would you want pussy from leftists? Democrat and Communist (yeah yeah same thing now, I know) women are fucking ugly.



Hepativore said:


> This is going to be relatively long as I just found this thread and it is hard to cram all of my opinions into one post.
> 
> I am an American, so I do not know how things are in other countries, but I consider myself a progressive leftist. While the SJWs and "wokeness" have left a bad taste in many people's mouths, in terms of how people perceive the "left" in my country, I think that the biggest threat to individual freedom and liberty is wealth inequality and how much power private corporations have in regards to control over the political system as well as the rise of corporate censorship.
> 
> ...


SJWs and progressives in general aren't actual liberals, they are authoritarians who have stolen and perverted the word for their own ends.

I used to be leftist, maybe somewhat Communist, because my parents were leftists (and tragically still are). Being born and raised in that stuff tragically skews your sense of morality. 

I bought into the whole spiel about combating poverty, racism, inequality, corporate influence in society, etc., but as time went on I realized that Obama was in fact NOT going to repeal the Patriot Act or other bullshit that 9/11 spawned. This whole grab for emergency powers is what made me side with the Democrats in the first place, at least in the hope that all that shit would be retracted. 

But no, Obama didn't do jackshit except bask in adoration and not get on pulling us out of Iraq and Afghanistan (in an orderly manner of course). Oh, and the extrajudicial killings of American citizens overseas (which would, regardless of what the accused had done, open up a new can of worms and create a bad precedent). 

The final nail in the coffin for me was the rise of the woke shit and the abandonment of Occupy Wall Street types to schmooze with global megacorporations. I thought lefties were supposed to be against corporate fuckery, not endorsing it. You can dump toxic waste, exterminate entire villages, and endorse third world slave labor all you want, but God damnit if you don't pledge allegiance to whatever version of the rainbow flag or worship whichever "disadvantaged" group we fucking tell you to, we will fucking END YOU! AND YOUR CAREER!

And God forbid you use a previous year's rainbow flag because it's not inclusive enough! It's never enough stripes!

To be serious again, the government and politicians here in America have largely been kept in check for over 200 years of tradition, and now the Left wants to get rid of that because they've turned into a bunch of MovieBobs on crack.

And please, don't get me started on their hypocrisy regarding the coronavirus.


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## CreamyHerman’s (Dec 5, 2021)

H3LLH4MM3R666 said:


> Trump saying offensive things is at the bottom of my list of concerns.  He's not as bad as Bush was, but still not good.


So what policies you didn't like?


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## H3LLH4MM3R666 (Dec 10, 2021)

CreamyHerman’s said:


> So what policies you didn't like?


His tax cuts, sloppy deregulation, and catastrophic military withdrawals.  He pardoned some war criminals, caused our current inflation crisis with his trade war and tax cuts, and was extremely counter-productive in securing the border.  He also blew up the deficit and tanked America's global approval rating.  When we were set to give a death sentence to the Chinese tech giant ZTE, Trump got a phonecall from Xi.  That was all it took for him to intervene and cancel the sanctions that would have deprived ZTE of chip components, instead giving them a slap on the wrist.  He talks tough on China but always capitulates to them when it really matters.

I've also turned around on the issue of illegal immigration after Bush, as I became more educated on the realities of how the legal immigration system actually works, and the net impact that immigrants have on the country.


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## Karras Rising (Dec 10, 2021)

I hate liberal multiculturalism and authoritative one-party totalitarianism all the same, no matter which side of the political spectrum they’re coming from. I think the human species is generally selfish because a human is always out for its own survival. I also think the most self-serving thing we can all do is act co-operatively and consensually as a society. By working together, we preserve the species as a whole. We can only foster a culture of co-operation through individual liberty, free debate, and self-policing.

I have always been more sympathetic to true left-wing politicians (not clout-chasing sycophants), because I think the social body (the species as a whole) is the most important thing. To propagate the species, All Must Bear The Torch.


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## NoonmanR (Dec 10, 2021)

The Republican party is beyond useless, and only seems to exist to give people the illusion of option. Also don't want to support either extreme, especially not communism, so here i sit, every so slightly left of center.


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## theshep (Dec 10, 2021)

Arthritis in the right hip.


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## Butcher Pete (Dec 10, 2021)

Because I want to push those precious diverse Pee-oh-Cees and faggots out of my neighborhood/city/kids’ school, but I don’t want anyone to hurt my feelings by calling me a bigot.


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## The Lawgiver (Dec 11, 2021)

I literally do not follow standard political gridline faction shit yet people keep saying I "lean left" or they call me some sort of secret nazi. This is society now and I hate it.


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## TruthSeekingDaimon (Dec 11, 2021)

My sexuality is rapefluid.
My gender is pedophille.
My race is eating children's fried brains.
My religion is to have anyone that does not like me dissolved in vats of acid. Peacefully.
Thats why I lean left.
I am the discriminated offended protected minority. White people bad. Capitalism bad.


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## Strawberry Mirky Brend (Dec 11, 2021)

I lean left economically because workers need to be protected from exploitation by corporations and unregulated capitalism is a fucking shitshow for everyone but the elites. 

I don't lean to the left socially because I'm not a retard with a victim complex that thinks skin color or sexual orientation is the most important thing about a person. 

But there isn't an actual economically left wing party in America. There hasn't been for at least a decade after Obama fucked up recovering from the recession and they shifted to socially left identity politics as the brand to change the narrative and because Occupy Wall Street was too close to the truth.


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## RMQualtrough (Dec 11, 2021)

I'm Libertarian. The existence of retards makes Libertarianism impossible in practice, but I still lean left to freedom, autonomy, and independence. Naturally I would, as I am a hermit and don't even vote.

Libertarianism is impossible because I would like literally everything to be legal if you don't harm others, but most people are genuinely semi Downs tier so would do something like swallow acid then chop people up shrieking about Jesus and demons.

Just to add I'm worth half a mil and own a business. Theoretically you'd expect me to lean right. But logically I just cannot say it is fair to have motherfuckers rolling around in Bugattis while some poor motherfuckers literally live diseased in mold in the same country. A balance is preferable. The right to life is fundamental, free healthcare is a must.


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## GHTD (Dec 11, 2021)

Because three-letter agents glow so hard real right-wingers don't exist anymore.


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## PlumSyrup (Dec 14, 2021)

Because social programs change lives. For example, I know someone whose husband fell off of the back of a truck while working and he became disabled as a result. Disability is barely any money, so his wife used a pell grant to go get a welding degree for free and now has a good job. She used to be a barista. Ironically, since the pandemic caused a lot of jobs to become remote, he's been able to actually find jobs he can do from home, and he now works at a call center, because it's better money than disability and he can do it without having to try to get to work. Thanks to programs like disability and food stamps and college grants for the poor, they're both gainfully employed in a way they wouldn't have otherwise been.

Users of this site are VERY familiar with the sort who abuse these programs, but living on welfare actually fucking sucks, and most people just need it to keep their lives stable for a little while. Few people WANT to live in section 8 housing or trying to live off of like $800/month in some cases. Or they need it because they actually can't work and will never able to, and they don't deserve to be homeless. It's really only the lolcows who can manage to be happy watching anime all day and living in grinding poverty. Everyone else either has no other option or it's just temporary while they get something else in place. And that's good for them and good for society imo.

I really don't care as much about all the social/interpersonal shit that makes its way into politics, I really don't care about rallying and protesting because a dude said "retarded" or something. I disagree with leftists on a LOT. I'm very pro-gun and anti-censorship. but I also can't bring myself to vote for someone who would make abortion illegal or cut WIC programs or try to teach kids about immaculate conception in school.

I used to be more of a leftist because I really care about civil rights, but, let's be honest, leftists don't actually care about hate crimes or anything like that, they care about having more bisexual black female characters on tv.


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## Lemmingwise (Dec 14, 2021)

I lean populist right, because I've mostly always leaned in favor of the underdogs and the downthrodden. I leaned left when I still thought they were the underdogs.


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