# Is There a God?



## AnOminous (May 5, 2017)

This is the obvious example of a Deep Thought and yet there is not a thread about it.

My motives in starting this thread are malicious, and I want to see people get mad and fight each other.

Personally, I am a hard agnostic.  I don't know whether there is a God or not, and neither do you.  Fuck you.  You have no idea.  

I also disbelieve my own personal experiences, even though I've experienced situations where it seemed like something communicated with me and told me things, like God might, but I was on a lot of psychedelic drugs at the time and therefore do not trust my own recollection.

Let's talk about God, though.  Why not?


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## Cato (May 5, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Personally, I am a hard agnostic.  I don't know whether there is a God or not, and neither do you.  Fuck you.  You have no idea.



I thought that according to @Mikemikev, you were a Jew.


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## AnOminous (May 5, 2017)

Cato said:


> I thought that according to @Mikemikev, you were a Jew.



I will point out that @Mikemikev is not a reliable narrator.


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## Cato (May 5, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> I will point out that @Mikemikev is not a reliable narrator.



I'm shocked. He has so much integrity that he admitted to being attracted to 15-year-olds.


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## AnOminous (May 5, 2017)

Cato said:


> I'm shocked. He has so much integrity that he admitted to being attracted to 15-year-olds.



He's so attracted to 15 year olds he can't deny it.  He is compelled to say it every chance he gets.  Also what does this have to do with the existence of God you fucking faggot?


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## Woodcutting bot (May 5, 2017)

I not sure there is a god *right now*, but I'm certain that there will be.

If the way I suspect the universe works is correct (big bang+expansion --> big crunch --> big bang+expansion-->big crunch--> ad infinitum), then I believe that the cascading complexity of life across the universe will eventually lead to a single being that effectively knows how everything works in the universe, and with a big enough brain, it could essentially predict everything thereafter.

Having such immense knowledge and powers of prediction, it will have reduced its likelihood of dying to 0%, making it immortal by definition. What it does with this power is anyones guess, but it likely wouldn't care about you or your problems.  What would it look like? Fuck knows, but it would probably have to be absolutely gargantuan in size to account for the immense processing power needed to truly reach "omniscience". 

If it can't survive the big crunch, then it will die like everything else in the galaxy, and things will start from the absolute beginning and continue in the exact same fashion forevermore. If it could somehow survive the big crunch by somehow transitioning outside the physical dimension, then it would likely linger on forever where we couldn't see it (IE literal skydaddy).

:autism:


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## ZeCommissar (May 5, 2017)

I am agnostic about the universe as a whole. But I am atheist when it comes to the man-made religions.

 I do not believe humanity has the means or the ability to know there is a god, and it shows our extreme hubris that we think he made us in his image. The modern religions are just like the religions of old, ways for people to cope with the unknown, and explain what is known. The universe is vast and ever-expanding, how could we know what created it? We are limited to our small blue speck and haven't even landed on a different planet yet. (The moon is not a planet lol)

However in the infinite expanse that is our universe people argue that in it's beauty a god HAD to have made it. Ok, but why would it be the Christian god, or the Muslim god or the Greek Gods? It could be some being that we cannot even fathom, a being that doesn't even know we exist in the universe.

I am a pantheist, which believes the universe is god. The physical universe is everything, it is your wife, it is me, you, your car, and the cosmos. If the universe is everything, then it is all-powerful, which to me is a god. It's what I believe, but I am open if there is anything that can possibly prove i'm wrong. HOWEVER it's honestly the only thinking that could make sense to me.

Would you pray to the universe? No, because you might as well pray to the trees or the grass in your lawn. Hell you might as well pray to yourself, since you are apart of the universe.

But I do understand why people pray, and why they believe. So while I might chuckle and think it's silly that people talk about Adam & Eve and a talking snake like it's a historical fact, I understand why they believe.


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## Hui (May 5, 2017)

Goddess


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## Overcast (May 5, 2017)

Well considering that there are still many things we have yet to discover or figure out, (like what is beyond our solar system, what's down in the deepest parts of the earth's waters, how to cure stuff like cancer), I'd say there's some possibility of a higher being somewhere. Whether or not it considers itself "God" I can't really say.

Also, considering how out of the many many many different species there are on this planet alone, we're the only ones to gain full sentience and practically bend the planet to our will. Kinda makes you wonder why that is or how.

I guess I consider myself agnostic, but at the same time, it seems like a fairly long series of coincidences for us as a species to get to the point we are now.

I'm not sure if we'll ever really find the answer though.


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## ICametoLurk (May 5, 2017)

>worshipping demiurge

shamefur


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## Autistic-No-Yari (May 5, 2017)

I see it as transparently as possible the reasons why people NEED to believe in "God", so no, I think it's just people needing to find meaning behind everything, even when there is none.

I'm perfectly content believing life was coincidence, luck, and a lot of fucking time, and that one day I won't exist. In my mind, that only makes my life, and life in general, far more interesting and makes me appreciate it more.


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## BadaBadaBoom (May 5, 2017)

EDIT: Just now realized this was in Deep Thoughts so I should probably post something more substantial.

I don't believe humans are the chosen species of the universe; I believe in evolution from beings incapable of believing in a god. Therefore any notion or idea that there is a god would be a human invention or impossible to confirm either way. There may be a god, but I sincerely doubt humans have a rule book about it. The belief that we do is a human invention and one that has been altered by many different other humans since its creation.

Also, the fact that there are multiple religions that are no longer around that predated the origins of all current religions kinda makes the notion that humans aren't behind it pretty iffy.

I will say though, Revelations is the single most brutally awesome thing ever written.


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## Hui (May 5, 2017)

ICametoLurk said:


> >worshipping demiurge
> 
> shamefur


spoilers!


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## DuskEngine (May 5, 2017)

I don't understand the question


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## UnderwaterUnderworld (May 5, 2017)

Are @Sailor_Jupiter and I the only religious people on here


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## The Man With No Name (May 5, 2017)

I do hope there is a god or at least an afterlife. Even if it's somewhere to be judged, it's more comforting of a thought than every single experience and every single thought you've ever had abruptly ending. Death angst is the best motivator for believing a higher power.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (May 6, 2017)

Yes.


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## Ravelord (May 6, 2017)

We can't know, but if he does he probably doesn't care of our actions because he has eternity to judge us. So I think he is irrelevant.

I understand the need of "him" to cope with death, though. Everyone has their own mechanisms. God/Religion is just another one.


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## DangerousGas (May 6, 2017)

Entertainingly divisive question.

I don't refute the possibility of God, but I don't bother trying to prove it, either. It's not like any amount of philosophising on my part is going to change the outcome, so meh. By dint of the very concept, God is utterly inscrutable, so it's not like the scientific method will ever have anything much to say about it either given that it's an approach that's specifically there for the sake of empirical analysis. Any omniscient/-potent/-present entity isn't likely to let themselves be tripped up by enquiring yet finite minds to the point of forming a proof of their existence or non-existence without intending to. Philosophy and religion are too wooly and individually interpretive a means of explanation, so short of God deliberately making themself/selves incontrovertibly known to us, there's no means of definitive proof.


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## Elwood P. Dowd (May 6, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Personally, I am a hard agnostic.  I don't know whether there is a God or not, and neither do you.  Fuck you.  You have no idea.



I guess I'm a "weak atheist," which as a practical matter amounts to the same thing. Having said that, I could probably be argued into some sort of belief in an Aristotelian Unmoved/Prime/First Mover if I gave a shit about the topic.  But I also see no way that any sort of personal and loving Deity exists, nor that there is any part of a human being that survives the death of their material body. (e.g. souls aren't real.)


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## AnOminous (May 6, 2017)

Woodcutting bot said:


> Having such immense knowledge and powers of prediction, it will have reduced its likelihood of dying to 0%, making it immortal by definition. What it does with this power is anyones guess, but it likely wouldn't care about you or your problems.  What would it look like? Fuck knows, but it would probably have to be absolutely gargantuan in size to account for the immense processing power needed to truly reach "omniscience".



The problem with this is the same with any other computing device, though, and that's there are hard limits to the possible information density of objects.  There's also the serious problem of entropy in the form of waste heat, as well as speed of light issues related to the size of the object (the so-called Jupiter brain problem).  The more computation it does, the more entropy you get and the sooner you run into the heat death of the universe.


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## Xenomorph (May 6, 2017)

If there was, he left a long time ago.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (May 6, 2017)

Honestly, as far as I can tell, the vast majority of KF is going to be agnostics and atheists. Most religious people wouldn't frequent a place like this (sorry, God.) Maybe you could do a poll, though? Religious people tend to be very reluctant to voice their belief these days, especially on a forum, but a poll might get us a more accurate reading, which I think could be interesting?


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## Nacho Man Randy Salsa (May 6, 2017)

The single one percent chance of there being a God frightens me.


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## Kaiser Wilhelm II. (May 6, 2017)

Im not sure, but if there is one im sure he'll give me a high five when im in heaven for what i did in life


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## Beaniebon (May 6, 2017)

I'm an agonsitic atheist. I don't think theres a way to know for sure whether there's a god or not, but I don't think there is.


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## Cthulu (May 6, 2017)

I'm god you niggers


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## Morose_Obesity (May 6, 2017)

We're in a Sims game run by a immature 8 year old


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## Autistic-No-Yari (May 6, 2017)

Nacho Man Randy Salsa said:


> The single one percent chance of there being a God frightens me.



I'm curious where you got something as high as 1%.


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## TheImportantFart (May 6, 2017)

I consider myself a strong atheist. For those who don't know what the distinction between a strong and weak atheist is, a weak atheist doesn't believe in God. A strong atheist doesn't believe there is a God. For the record, I don't like the terminology being "weak" and "strong", I basically see it as neckbeards trying to one-up each other on how much they don't believe in God. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have an active belief in God, you're an atheist. Strong also implies you're willing to be a strident douche about it, but as long as religion leaves my rights and the rights of others alone I don't kick up a fuss. But since "strong" and "weak" is the widely-used terminology I guess I'm stuck using it. 

That said, even strong atheism allows for the possibility of there being a God or something equating to a deity, but it's a very, _very_ small possibility. I personally don't believe there's a God because I've never seen any evidence of one, or anything supernatural and nobody else has either.

If there is a higher power, I strongly doubt it's one described in any of the holy books on Earth. There are thousands of religions worldwide, all of which believe in a different deity (and some which don't have a deity). That's not even getting into all the extinct deities like the Greek, Egyptian and Viking Gods (although at least those religions realised their Gods were raving douchebags). They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong and I lean far more heavily towards them all being wrong.


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## Cthulu (May 6, 2017)

TheImportantFart said:


> I consider myself a strong atheist. For those who don't know what the distinction between a strong and weak atheist is, a weak atheist doesn't believe in God. A strong atheist doesn't believe there is a God. For the record, I don't like the terminology being "weak" and "strong", I basically see it as neckbeards trying to one-up each other on how much they don't believe in God. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have an active belief in God, you're an atheist. Strong also implies you're willing to be a strident douche about it, but as long as religion leaves my rights and the rights of others alone I don't kick up a fuss. But since "strong" and "weak" is the widely-used terminology I guess I'm stuck using it.
> 
> That said, even strong atheism allows for the possibility of there being a God or something equating to a deity, but it's a very, _very_ small possibility. I personally don't believe there's a God because I've never seen any evidence of one, or anything supernatural and nobody else has either.
> 
> If there is a higher power, I strongly doubt it's one described in any of the holy books on Earth. There are thousands of religions worldwide, all of which believe in a different deity (and some which don't have a deity). That's not even getting into all the extinct deities like the Greek, Egyptian and Viking Gods (although at least those religions realised their Gods were raving douchebags). They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong and I lean far more heavily towards them all being wrong.


Lmao


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## Ravelord (May 6, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> Honestly, as far as I can tell, the vast majority of KF is going to be agnostics and atheists. Most religious people wouldn't frequent a place like this (sorry, God.) Maybe you could do a poll, though? Religious people tend to be very reluctant to voice their belief these days, especially on a forum, but a poll might get us a more accurate reading, which I think could be interesting?



Nah, chill. I don't mind that other people believe in a superior being. If that helps you find meaning in life or cope with loss/death, be my guest. It's still better than the lack of resolve our lolcows have.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (May 6, 2017)

Ravelord said:


> Nah, chill. I don't mind that other people believe in a superior being. If that helps you find meaning in life or cope with loss/death, be my guest. It's still better than the lack of resolve our lolcows have.



Indeed, you do? Very well, and? Perhaps you quoted the wrong post?


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## Black Waltz (May 6, 2017)

I don't know, nor do I really care.


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## HaremGorilla (May 6, 2017)

Woodcutting bot said:


> I not sure there is a god *right now*, but I'm certain that there will be.
> 
> If the way I suspect the universe works is correct (big bang+expansion --> big crunch --> big bang+expansion-->big crunch--> ad infinitum), then I believe that the cascading complexity of life across the universe will eventually lead to a single being that effectively knows how everything works in the universe, and with a big enough brain, it could essentially predict everything thereafter.
> 
> ...


Implying that hasn't already happened in the infinite universe cycle


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## The Iconoclast (May 6, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Personally, I am a hard agnostic. I don't know whether there is a God or not, and neither do you. Fuck you. You have no idea.


I can relate a lot to this, but whenever God is brought up in my mind, I always consider the Problem of Evil (if God is all-good and all-powerful, then why does evil exist), and how it typically knocks the possibility of a God existing into the floor.

And besides, _is God even good_? The guy committed genocide/caused someone to commit some kind of mass-killing like at least four different times (probably more), and the Bible says in Revelations that he's planning another mass torturing/genocide of people after he gets all the "believers" out of the earth. And let's not forget that if someone decides not to believe in him, he'll just throw them into a fiery pit for the rest of eternity. How benevolent.

As for churches and religious groups, I have enough experience in both of them to never want to associate with any of them. Ever.


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## Ravelord (May 6, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> Indeed, you do? Very well, and? Perhaps you quoted the wrong post?



Nah, just intended to imply that it shouldn't be a problem to have that kind of poll. Although it may get hijacked with full :islamic: voting


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## Deadwaste (May 6, 2017)

there is one god and he's the only god, and his name is kek. #PraiseKek


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## Johnny Bravo (May 6, 2017)

No.


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## Hen in a tie (May 7, 2017)

Die and find out for yourself, that's my plan in life.


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## AnOminous (May 7, 2017)

1911JD said:


> I can relate a lot to this, but whenever God is brought up in my mind, I always consider the Problem of Evil (if God is all-good and all-powerful, then why does evil exist), and how it typically knocks the possibility of a God existing into the floor.



This is called theodicy and yes, it's the main problem that emerges if you consider the existence of God.  One "solution" is to assume the existence of an evil version of God as well, Satan, the Devil, whatever.  And then one wonders why the fuck does this bitch exist if there really is a God?

And then you get into dumb fanfics about God like the shit Dante wrote, where you get to put people you don't like into Hell, as if nobody will ever notice you did this and how gay it was.


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## Jan_Hus (May 7, 2017)

Maybe, maybe not.

Dunno. Don't care


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## Calooby (May 7, 2017)

Francis E. Dec Esquire is the one and only God I don't know what the fuck you guys are sperging about.


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## ICametoLurk (May 7, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> This is called theodicy and yes, it's the main problem that emerges if you consider the existence of God.  One "solution" is to assume the existence of an evil version of God as well, Satan, the Devil, whatever.  And then one wonders why the fuck does this bitch exist if there really is a God?
> 
> And then you get into dumb fanfics about God like the shit Dante wrote, where you get to put people you don't like into Hell, as if nobody will ever notice you did this and how gay it was.


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## The Iconoclast (May 7, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> This is called theodicy and yes, it's the main problem that emerges if you consider the existence of God.  One "solution" is to assume the existence of an evil version of God as well, Satan, the Devil, whatever.  And then one wonders why the fuck does this bitch exist if there really is a God?
> 
> And then you get into dumb fanfics about God like the shit Dante wrote, where you get to put people you don't like into Hell, as if nobody will ever notice you did this and how gay it was.



God is all-powerful, and can create and destroy anything or anyone... except when it fits the narrative (excuse my rhetoric) of religious people.

"Is God really all-powerful?"
"Yes! He created the world as we know it!"
"If your God is all powerful, why didn't he stop X/why did he cause Y?"
"B- Because he was punishing them!"
"But doesn't that conflict with the notion that he's all-good?"
"Sh- Shut up!"


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## AnOminous (May 7, 2017)

There's a reason this is an icon here.


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## Vocaloid Ruby (May 7, 2017)

TheImportantFart said:


> FUCK YOU DAD I TOLD YOU I DON'T WANT TO GO TO CHURCH!



Translated for ease of other users.


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## TheImportantFart (May 7, 2017)

Vocaloid Ruby said:


> Translated for ease of other users.


I was actually raised in a secular family but yeah, in hindsight that post was practically begging for the :autism: ratings.


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## The Iconoclast (May 7, 2017)

Nacho Man Randy Salsa said:


> The single one percent chance of there being a God frightens me.









Spoiler



Apologies for the autistic movie reference.


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## Antipathy (May 7, 2017)

Ultimately, I fall into the camp of "I have no freaking idea". The only thing I think is that, if there _is _a God, it had no hand in humanity, and basically sits around crapping out universes or something more entertaining than watching a bunch of hairless apes get into slap fights.


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## Organic Fapcup (May 7, 2017)

Honestly, the only reason this question is even still asked is because religion's been a thing for a very long time.
That said, no.


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## friedshrimp (May 8, 2017)

Yes, his name is Superman.


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## Meat_Puppet (May 8, 2017)

Growing up both of my parents were Christian and raised us to be the same way. And even at a young age the bible or these rules the church had in place didn't seem fair. I've always had a rebellious mindset and feel like worship and devoting your life to something that could be real or not is simply stupid. I'm only going to be alive once, to be 28 for 12 months out of my life and would rather be out making life experiences than to spend it restricting myself.


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## AnOminous (May 8, 2017)

Vocaloid Ruby said:


> Translated for ease of other users.



I rate both this and all the ratings of the post you're responding to as REEE REEE REEE atheism REEE REEE.  There's not a button for it, though.

Is it really that hard to grasp that some people seriously believe in the nonexistence of God and that this isn't automatically insane?  I phrased that with those exact words for a very specific reason, that there are certain  out there who actually do specifically believe in the nonexistence of God, rather than merely not believing God exists.

What did the post you were quoting say whatever you're mad about, though?  I didn't read that there.  Your "translation" was just "ME MAD HULK SMASH" and making up some shit that you wish he'd said.


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## HG 400 (May 8, 2017)

God exists (and Mohammad is His prophet)


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## Lackadaisy (May 8, 2017)

Probably. He's busy fucking around with the rest of the universe though.


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## Vocaloid Ruby (May 8, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> I rate both this and all the ratings of the post you're responding to as REEE REEE REEE atheism REEE REEE.  There's not a button for it, though.
> 
> Is it really that hard to grasp that some people seriously believe in the nonexistence of God and that this isn't automatically insane?  I phrased that with those exact words for a very specific reason, that there are certain  out there who actually do specifically believe in the nonexistence of God, rather than merely not believing God exists.
> 
> What did the post you were quoting say whatever you're mad about, though?  I didn't read that there.  Your "translation" was just "ME MAD HULK SMASH" and making up some shit that you wish he'd said.



 Lol calm down it was a joke.


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## Metropolis Reigns (May 8, 2017)

To me, He is real but He's got a lot of shit to handle. We were given free will to do what we want. Ultimately, if we do meet God, we met Him. If not, yolk's on me. It appears that everyone has a different experience in life and I feel that finding out whether or not God is a personal journey that one chooses to take. I view God as an artist. With one stroke of the brush a universe was created and with another it could be destroyed. Whatever the case may be, His presence whether you believe or not exists does exist because you continuously ponder His existence which gives way to God being real. Personally, I think it's better just to follow your gut and live life to the fullest while doing good unto others which is ironic because I'm posting on a farm of debauchery.


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## m0rnutz (May 8, 2017)

What if God is just an image in the mind? A reflection of our will?


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## UptownRuckus (May 8, 2017)

Interesting conversation. But here is what I really want to know...What goes on after because...100 years is not enough time to ween at people... This is a serious problem


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## bbpoison (May 12, 2017)

Ray Kurzweil is my god and he says by the year 2045 we will be faster than light and one with the ephemeral tapestry.


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## Laughs_Under_Lucricities (May 13, 2017)

Sorry, I don't buy it.

I think my biggest beef is "God" taking credit for everything that happens. By that definition, *we're* God.
Since only we control our lives.
I know I do.


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## Ntwadumela (May 14, 2017)

According to my religion and what I believe yes there is a God and an afterlife. However if you're of a different belief I won't judge you.


UnderwaterUnderworld said:


> Are @Sailor_Jupiter and I the only religious people on here


You're not alone
I'm an Islam


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## AnOminous (May 14, 2017)

bbpoison said:


> Ray Kurzweil is my god and he says by the year 2045 we will be faster than light and one with the ephemeral tapestry.



I like Kurzweil's ideas to some degree, but that is about as likely as God existing.  Possibly less.


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## Eldritch (May 14, 2017)

Why does the conversation have to be "one god or zero?"








TheImportantFart said:


> That's not even getting into all the extinct deities like the Greek, Egyptian and Viking Gods (although at least those religions realised their Gods were raving douchebags).


>Extinct
>Implying


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## GethN7 (May 14, 2017)

Ntwadumela said:


> According to my religion and what I believe yes there is a God and an afterlife. However if you're of a different belief I won't judge you.
> 
> You're not alone
> I'm an Islam



Same, I'm just Christian.



Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> Sorry, I don't buy it.
> 
> I think my biggest beef is "God" taking credit for everything that happens. By that definition, *we're* God.
> Since only we control our lives.
> I know I do.



Well, according to Christianity, it's a limited form of omniscience. We have the free will to choose between good or evil or anything else, just God wants us to do things a certain way or consequences will suck pretty bad, according to Him.

And compared to Judaism or even Islam the bar for Christians is pretty low, probably the lowest without God just handing you eternal life for free in the next world if you please Him in this one.

And yes, while he claims omniscience, our lives are deliberately left for us to conduct as we see fit in this world, he just says the next world being harder than this one is up to him if he wasn't a fan of your choices, and what he wants is pretty straightforward and rather simple in practice.

Otherwise, if he does like your choices, your next life is super easy mode by comparison.


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## Cheap Sandals (May 14, 2017)

There is no God in the sense of an omnipotent, omniscient being that exists and which we ought to worship. Doesn't exist. Maybe there are strong Things out there that our puny brains can't cognate, but there's nothing omniscient and nothing omnipotent. That's like saying a square circle exists. It's self contradictory if you examine it closely. Sounds pretty, makes people feel wonder, but ultimately nonsense.

If God did exist I wouldn't worship it. Worship is myopic and demeaning. If there is some stronger force that wants my obeisance it can talk to me directly. I am a self respecting adult. I see no reason why I should believe  with no actual evidence present, or why I would want to worship something inhuman. 

So for me, effectively, there is no God, and I firmly reject any being that claims inherent superiority.


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## Laughs_Under_Lucricities (May 14, 2017)

GethN7 said:


> Same, I'm just Christian.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Never applied to the ones I've known. They give "God" (or whoever) credit for literally everything. Even one time I merely left the house a little earlier and ran into them, who said, "Oh, thank Jesus he brought you here."
Clearly annoyed, but not wanting to be rude, I say, "No... it was me. I just got up early."
"Well, he made it so."

And other such things really left a negative impression on me.


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## GethN7 (May 14, 2017)

Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> Never applied to the ones I've known. They give "God" (or whoever) credit for literally everything. Even one time I merely left the house a little earlier and ran into them, who said, "Oh, thank Jesus he brought you here."
> Clearly annoyed, but not wanting to be rude, I say, "No... it was me. I just got up early."
> "Well, he made it so."
> 
> And other such things really left a negative impression on me.



Don't take it personally is my advice, it's merely an expression of goodwill.

As Christians believe, yes, God made the world and everything in it, but he also gave us free will, so it's meant to show gratitude by others concerning you that are another creation of His and thus is a blessing on their lives, not an implication you're a mindless robot who should be taking His orders simply for existing.

And it's considered proper respect to God to thank Him for the good in your life, and for some, even the bad is worthy of thanks, as some see adversity and trial as a test of faith.

So, that said, I thank God you are here and that I got to meet you, and while you may not believe in Him, I hope that I at least prove a better example of his virtues than what has disenchanted you before.



Cheap Sandals said:


> There is no God in the sense of an omnipotent, omniscient being that exists and which we ought to worship. Doesn't exist. Maybe there are strong Things out there that our puny brains can't cognate, but there's nothing omniscient and nothing omnipotent. That's like saying a square circle exists. It's self contradictory if you examine it closely. Sounds pretty, makes people feel wonder, but ultimately nonsense.
> 
> If God did exist I wouldn't worship it. Worship is myopic and demeaning. If there is some stronger force that wants my obeisance it can talk to me directly. I am a self respecting adult. I see no reason why I should believe  with no actual evidence present, or why I would want to worship something inhuman.
> 
> So for me, effectively, there is no God, and I firmly reject any being that claims inherent superiority.



Well, Christianity actually addressed that topic you mention, because God went to the extraordinary step of being born as a human, living like one, and even dying like one so He could be more relatable.

As for the whole belief part, it's called faith. I consider myself a rational person who believes in science and physical laws, but I also believe that these things were arranged by a higher power beyond my full comprehension, and while I don't have absolute proof of His existence
that is tangible in the present day, that's why they call it faith, and at the very least there is no harm in simply putting faith something is real even if you can't prove it.

And worship has many forms. Some worship by prayer and solemn reading of scripture. Some worship by joyful music and dance. Some worship by caring for the needy and bringing hope to the hopeless. Yes, it's all for the glory of God, who is considered the Christian creator of all things, but there is nothing about the concept that demands you treat worship like a solemn ritual of submission, and I often pray by having a conversation with God like I would with someone IRL.

As for the very last part, well, that's the clincher, really. Unless you're willing to accept he's the creator of all things and only through him is salvation in this life and the world beyond this one, then you probably won't buy what he's selling.


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## Laughs_Under_Lucricities (May 14, 2017)

GethN7 said:


> Don't take it personally is my advice, it's merely an expression of goodwill.
> 
> As Christians believe, yes, God made the world and everything in it, but he also gave us free will, so it's meant to show gratitude by others concerning you that are another creation of His and thus is a blessing on their lives, not an implication you're a mindless robot who should be taking His orders simply for existing.
> 
> ...



Yeeeah... we're going to have to agree to disagree. I do not share that notion at all. 
I don't go around forcing my Atheism on anyone like they do with theirs, even when no one asks for it.


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## GethN7 (May 14, 2017)

Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> Yeeeah... we're going to have to agree to disagree. I do not share that notion at all.
> I don't go around forcing my Atheism on anyone like they do with theirs, even when no one asks for it.



That's fair enough. I'm at least glad we got to know where we both stand, thanks for sharing.


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## Un Platano (May 15, 2017)

All hope abandon, ye who enter here. Let ye be warned that no response to this thread exists but to not respond at all, lest ye beget :dumb:, :autism:, :powerlevel:,  and :islamic:, and that shalt make thee an agnostic to this thread.


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## Arse Biscuit (May 15, 2017)

GethN7 said:


> As Christians believe, yes, God made the world and everything in it, but he also gave us free will, so it's meant to show gratitude by others concerning you that are another creation of His and thus is a blessing on their lives, not an implication you're a mindless robot who should be taking His orders simply for existing.



So an omniscient god gave primates free will and didn't see the horrible violence that would be the overwhelming majority of the behavior of those primates?


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## GethN7 (May 15, 2017)

Arse Biscuit said:


> So an omniscient god gave primates free will and didn't see the horrible violence that would be the overwhelming majority of the behavior of those primates?



I'm afraid I don't subcribe to the theory we descended from primates, but yes, we were given free will, with all that implies, by God.

And actually, if you read Genesis, he DID see that in advance, hence why he told Adam and Eve "don't eat from a certain tree" if you don't want to die. Made that quite clear.

They did it anyway, learned about evil and good and what the differences are, sin entered the world as a result, so a bunch of humans would wind up killing each other as a result of now having the desire and temptation to do so now being available to them.

And before you ask why he simply refused to NOT provide the tree, it would be like asking "why did he not prevent us from screwing up if he meant for us to have free will", to which the point is obvious, because even then humanity was given a simple choice, and he intended from the beginning to let us make up our own minds to do what He wanted or not.

We chose poorly.

Violence and death to each other by our own hand is the direct descendant of that choice.


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## Johnny Bravo (May 15, 2017)

Eldritch said:


> Why does the conversation have to be "one god or zero?"



Polytheism always made more sense to me. There's no evidence for polytheism either, but a bunch of drunken gods fucking about like the universe is their plaything makes a hell of a lot more sense than one supreme dude who has our best interest at heart. The universe is too chaotic and cold to be the product of a merciful god.


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## TheImportantFart (May 15, 2017)

GethN7 said:


> I consider myself a rational person who believes in science and physical laws





GethN7 said:


> I'm afraid I don't subcribe to the theory we descended from primates


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## Cheap Sandals (May 15, 2017)

GethN7 said:


> Well, Christianity actually addressed that topic you mention, because God went to the extraordinary step of being born as a human, living like one, and even dying like one so He could be more relatable.



I reject the Christan atempt because upon examination the concept of a god made flesh falls apart. It's another one of those things that sounds pretty until you actually think about it. The only way you can accept the concept of something both fully human and fully divine is if you make a special category in your brain for "stuff that doesn't make sense but I'll treat as true because it pleases me". 

You know, a place for lies.



> As for the whole belief part, it's called faith. I consider myself a rational person who believes in science and physical laws, but I also believe that these things were arranged by a higher power beyond my full comprehension, and while I don't have absolute proof of His existence
> that is tangible in the present day, that's why they call it faith, and at the very least there is no harm in simply putting faith something is real even if you can't prove it.



The complexity of the universe in no way implies a creator.  Faith isn't a virtue, it's a drug you use because you find the universe scary and you'd feel better if Daddy were in charge.



> but there is nothing about the concept that demands you treat worship like a solemn ritual of submission,



Worship means the acknowledgement of one's dependence on a greater power.  It can be done in an infinite number of ways, but it is what it is and it remains degrading for a self respecting sapient.]


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## GethN7 (May 15, 2017)

Cheap Sandals said:


> I reject the Christan atempt because upon examination the concept of a god made flesh falls apart. It's another one of those things that sounds pretty until you actually think about it. The only way you can accept the concept of something both fully human and fully divine is if you make a special category in your brain for "stuff that doesn't make sense but I'll treat as true because it pleases me".
> 
> You know, a place for lies.
> 
> ...



I see. That said, I totally respect your opinion on this, thank you for letting me know your position on this.



TheImportantFart said:


>



I'm well aware of the various similarities, but even a totally secular reading of history and science show the human species was far more capable of learning, evolution into what he is today, and there are so many divergent traits between the two lifeforms most similarities appear to be casual coincidence at best.

And yes, I generally believe evolution does occur at some level and has in most species throughout history.

I'm also sensing that my current stance is rather unpopular here, so I shall take this opportunity to gracefully take my leave, but I do want to thank everyone here for hearing me out at least, and I do appreciate your feedback.


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## Arse Biscuit (May 15, 2017)

GethN7 said:


> I'm afraid I don't subcribe to the theory we descended from primates,



Doesn't matter where we came from; we _are_ primates.


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## Oh Long Johnson (May 18, 2017)

Cheap Sandals said:


> I reject the Christan atempt because upon examination the concept of a god made flesh falls apart. It's another one of those things that sounds pretty until you actually think about it. The only way you can accept the concept of something both fully human and fully divine is if you make a special category in your brain for "stuff that doesn't make sense but I'll treat as true because it pleases me".
> 
> You know, a place for lies.


See now, you say that but is it simply because it pleases the Christians? Is that the only option available?

I have no religious beliefs and like nearly everyone on the internet, I put a lot of faith in science to inform me of what the fuck is going on. So, if a Christian came up to me and asked, "You know, this whole quantum entanglement thing is kind of fucked up. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light, but two entangled bits of matter can be a galaxy apart and if you measure one and fix its state, the other one changes its state? You niggers even took a paper Einstein wrote intending to disprove this shit and added it to your own papers proving the phenomenon. How is that information being transmitted? Over what medium? How is it faster than c? Are you treating this as true because it pleases you?" I'd mumble something about everything related to quantum mechanics being insane but somehow it just works that way.

There are mysteries and contradictions involved in nearly every human endeavor because humans have an intellectual limit, along with all the other nonsense we bring to the table. So, if there was a divine, arguably a more important phenomenon than two particles talking to one another, I would imagine most information regarding it would be incomplete, contradictory or wrong simply given the limitations of the big-brained monkeys trying to interpret it.


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## Florence (May 18, 2017)

All is one in Yog-Sothoth.


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## D.Va (May 18, 2017)

1864897514651 said:


> There is only one God, and He sacrificed Himself in the form of His begotten Son, Jesus Christ. He is Triune: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.



how the hell did you complete account registration


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## Picklepower (May 18, 2017)

So my problem is, if there was, which denomination, or religion would the correct one even be? and how would anyone know objectivley? You would have to do years and years of study to even get an idea, and even then, that conclusion could be wrong. I swear I'm not trying to be a fedora tipper here. I would say I'm agnostic.


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## AnOminous (May 18, 2017)

Why Pascal's Wager is retarded is it doesn't even consider the possibility that God is actually a huge troll and just for the fuck of it sends you to Hell for believing in Him.


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## TheFinalBoss (May 18, 2017)

I think it's absurd how us humans find ourselves so special as a species that we insist our 'gods' are both in our shape and created us in their image. We're basically primates who developed larger brains, and looking at other animals' anatomy shows tons of similarities to ours. Why can't we just see the greatness in the constant struggle of nature and it's organisms? How awesome it was that we won the chain of evolution through millions of years of battling for resources/growth? There's lots of proof for it.

But no, a few mysterious beings no one's ever seen plopped us down on here. Because humans are _the shit_. I just don't know man. If there was a god, they definitely don't give a fuck about us and aren't worth worshiping anyway, since I doubt there's benefits.

I'd rather just sit back and admire the brutality of the universe as it unfolds. Or pick up Buddhism. Buddhism is chill af.


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## AnOminous (May 18, 2017)

My favorite quote about God is probably J.B.S. Haldane's possibly made-up quote that if there is one, He has an "inordinate fondness for beetles."

The vast majority of the biomass on the planet is not human, and there are absurd numbers of insect species, compared to anything else.

Most of these other nearly mindless species will probably outlast us when we use our cleverness to obliterate ourselves.


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## Cheap Sandals (May 19, 2017)

Oh Long Johnson said:


> See now, you say that but is it simply because it pleases the Christians? Is that the only option available?
> 
> I have no religious beliefs and like nearly everyone on the internet, I put a lot of faith in science to inform me of what the fuck is going on. So, if a Christian came up to me and asked, "You know, this whole quantum entanglement thing is kind of fucked up. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light, but two entangled bits of matter can be a galaxy apart and if you measure one and fix its state, the other one changes its state? You niggers even took a paper Einstein wrote intending to disprove this shit and added it to your own papers proving the phenomenon. How is that information being transmitted? Over what medium? How is it faster than c? Are you treating this as true because it pleases you?" I'd mumble something about everything related to quantum mechanics being insane but somehow it just works that way.
> 
> There are mysteries and contradictions involved in nearly every human endeavor because humans have an intellectual limit, along with all the other nonsense we bring to the table. So, if there was a divine, arguably a more important phenomenon than two particles talking to one another, I would imagine most information regarding it would be incomplete, contradictory or wrong simply given the limitations of the big-brained monkeys trying to interpret it.



I'll be frank and say I don't fully understand your meaning here. I don't understand why "I can't explain particle mechanics" and "there's a theoretical limit to human consciousness" equates to "there's a creator-god and the incoherence is a feature not a bug". 

I kindly disagree. Incoherence is not a feature to me. If there's some magickal, super-amazing, terrific, ultra-powerful, ultra-brainy creature watching me, it's going to have to stoop a little and talk to me in a coherent, normal fashion if it wants my attention. If I'm just so unworthy and disgusting to the point where that's impossible, then obviously this supposedly allpowerful creature is not as skillful, powerful, or effective as claimed. Or I guess I'm so wonderfully powerful in all my stinky glory that its supposed holiness withers before its own creation like a total puss puss. Come on. Show yourself. It'll never happen. Because there is no omniscient, omnipotent being. I'm talking to Nothing.

Are there perhaps being out there that are brainier than us? I would imagine so! Are there beings out there kinder than us? Most certainly! Are there beings out there stronger than humans? Possibly! But is there a being alive that is fundamentally, basically, foundationally _Better-_With-a-Capital-B than us? No. And any being that approaches me, bodied or disembodied, and says "Hey, I'm Better than you, you loathsome turd, and you better acknowledge that on the daily if you know what's good for you." then I know straight away this being doesn't actually have my best interests at heart. I'd have to be a real self-hater to agree to those terms.


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## Darndirty (May 19, 2017)

One thing I've never understood is the idea of god as almost a person, go look at the old testament it's filled with a God that has distinctly human emotions, jealousy, greed, vengence. If there is a God, I imagine it's so far removed from what we imagine it is is that we wouldn't even recognize it. This is why I'm agnostic, human religions are just too human centric for me to give them any credence. Hell we even made a human equal to God out of our own arrogance.


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## AnOminous (May 19, 2017)

Darndirty said:


> One thing I've never understood is the idea of god as almost a person, go look at the old testament it's filled with a God that has distinctly human emotions, jealousy, greed, vengence. If there is a God, I imagine it's so far removed from what we imagine it is is that we wouldn't even recognize it. This is why I'm agnostic, human religions are just too human centric for me to give them any credence. Hell we even made a human equal to God out of our own arrogance.



This is why, while I am unsure about the existence of some kind of creator, I am pretty damn sure the sky daddy of Islam, Christianity and Judaism just plain doesn't exist.


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## ZeCommissar (May 21, 2017)

Another reason why Pascal's wager is exceptional is because of the fact that you could believe in the wrong god.

Also if it's the Christian God, i'm pretty sure he can see through you just acting like you believe just so you can get into heaven. That's like someone waiting the last 5 seconds to accept Jesus on their deathbed, it would be morally unjust for god to send them to heaven.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 26, 2017)

The biblical God had his beloved Israelites committing racial genocide long before the nazis made it cool. I've even seen legitimate arguments that the ten commandments only applied to the chosen people, so little gems like "don't murder" simply didn't count when non-jews were the victims. Enough so to make me believe the torah is not especially less violent than the koran.

But racism and war weren't God's only hobbies, he loved endorsing rape and sexual slavery too.


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## AnOminous (May 26, 2017)

One of the bigger reasons scriptural literalism is stupid as hell is that even Jesus often spoke figuratively and in parables.


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## Pickle Inspector (May 27, 2017)

Picklepower said:


> So my problem is, if there was, which denomination, or religion would the correct one even be? and how would anyone know objectivley? You would have to do years and years of study to even get an idea, and even then, that conclusion could be wrong. I swear I'm not trying to be a fedora tipper here. I would say I'm agnostic.


How would studying religions even help?

Some people seem to get into the mindset that just because something is old it's inherently more valuable or just because some religions have things in common then there must be some truth in it.



TheFinalBoss said:


> I'd rather just sit back and admire the brutality of the universe as it unfolds. Or pick up Buddhism. Buddhism is chill af.


Well an issue I have with Buddhism is the idea of karma and that people born into rich families or have unusually good looks or whatever must have been great people in a previous life but people born into poverty, warn torn countries or with deformities and illness must have done terrible things and deserve it.


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## ES 148 (May 27, 2017)

Personally, I quite enjoy thinking there is a giant supernatural eldritch creature manipulating all of us. Not trying to be funny or making a 'lel god is manipulative evil dood lel' joke, it's just a fun thing to think about.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (May 27, 2017)

Who needs a god when you have Kiwifarms?


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## Abethedemon (May 27, 2017)

I believe in a god. However, I'm skeptical to it existing. If one reads William James, he says that religion is real because it produces real results, and because people are changed and affected by religious motivations, that validates the existence for a god. My god, however, is very panentheistic, somewhat of an all consuming figure that both exists and doesn't exist, both good and bad emanate from it and everyone is somehow reacting to it in some way shape or form. My beliefs are very similar to Kabbalistic interpretations of Judaism interspersed with the occasional reverence for Odin and Freja. I think that since people believed in gods, they become legitimate channels to a greater reality. Even if that reality is false, it is still one constructed by humankind, and I believe humankind to be essentially good.


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## Save Goober (May 27, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Pascal's Wager is exceptional


You could have just stopped there.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 27, 2017)

Abethedemon said:


> If one reads William James, he says that religion is real because it produces real results, and because people are changed and affected by religious motivations, that validates the existence for a god.


I'm not sure I follow his idea. The story of Santa Claus is used to elicit good behavior from children on the threat of losing their christmas presents if they don't pay heed to it. So Santa Claus can be a useful myth and have "real" power if it succeeds at giving children motivation to be good. But the fact that it works does not validate the existence of Santa Claus. Fictional stories don't become real just because they have the intended effect.


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## Abethedemon (May 27, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> Fictional stories don't become real just because they have the intended effect.


I feel like a concept of "deep play" could be a facet here. This very forum is evidence that there are people far too invested in works of fiction. To someone like CWC, Sonic is very much real, and the difference between fiction and reality for him is blurred. An interesting read is the ethnography by Clifford Geertz known as "Deep Play: notes on the Balinese Cockfight" where he states how the symbol of chickens fighting enters into a greater mythos of the phallus and of the island resisting change. The factor of playing a game such as cockfighting becomes such an intense emotion that stakes become ludicrously raised. So fictional characters aren't necsicarily real, but to the people who are so obsessed with them that it causes them to create ludicrous fanart, it is essentially a real force they tap into.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 27, 2017)

Abethedemon said:


> So fictional characters aren't necsicarily real, but to the people who are so obsessed with them that it causes them to create ludicrous fanart, it is essentially a real force they tap into.


But... this is a very _bad _thing. Tuning out reality in favor of an easy fantasy is damaging on multiple levels.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (May 27, 2017)

When the people here who question or (do not believe) began their questioning, what was it that first caused it?

Oftentimes I think it is emotional before it is rational. This isn't to say that opposition to divinities or religions, be they polytheistic, monotheistic, anthropomorphic deities, etc. is unreasonable- in fact it is often quite reasonable- simply that much like with religionists the first inkling tends to come from the heart rather than the head, something I think a lot of atheists are more skittish about. I find things like "no being can rightfully consider itself above me" to be common in skeptical circles, for instance, which is not necessarily an exercise in empiricism since definitions of "above" and "below" or "better" and "worse" are often so subjectively defined by all human beings. It seems like a purely emotional appeal. "I reject this Jesus fella because he thinks he is better than me and my American values taught me that no one is better than me." This isn't _wrong _outright of course, emotional appeals do have value in discussion if only because of philosophical pragmatism ("I believe the things which it is best to believe.") Just something to note.

I suppose what all of this autism is trying to get at is "what first made you doubt?" I find most began to question things early. I don't meet a lot of adult converts to atheism or agnosticism. People have usually decided one way or the other by then. Of course most still continue to question individual things, or change belief systems, and so on. I don't mean to question that.


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## Abethedemon (May 27, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> But... this is a very _bad _thing. Tuning out reality in favor of an easy fantasy is damaging on multiple levels.


This is true, and I feel like this forum is a good example of that.
However, what separates fandom from religion is that religion has funded science, art, music, architecture and literature that reflect on reality and contribute to a greater good. This conversation has made me wonder what William James would think if he was knowledgable about fandom.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 27, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> When the people here who question or (do not believe) began their questioning, what was it that first caused it?


I can give a specific answer for this, actually.

My family was never religious, but they sent me to 12 years of catholic school just because they figured it was a better education than public school. I was in 1st grade and class for the day was about the Genesis creation story, the whole "in the beginning 6 days of work and then on the 7th the Lord rested" thing. Now, like any 6-year-old boy, I was obsessed with dinosaurs, and I knew that dinosaur fossils were many millions of years older than humanity. So I asked the teacher "if God made the earth in 7 days and humanity was there from the beginning, what about the dinosaurs?"

Teacher was quick on her feet. She said "oh, well, God actually made a practice Earth first, and that Earth had the dinosaurs. When He was done he blew that world up and used the debris to make the Earth we live on, and that's why we can find dinosaur bones buried everywhere."

I was young but it immediately didn't sit right with me. Didn't take me a whole lot of time to start asking myself: if God is perfect then why would he need to "practice" anything? If that's the true origin of Earth how come Genesis just omits all of it without a word? I can't find any evidence that this is taught anywhere in Christianity - oh wait, teacher was making up a bullshit lie to placate a child because these religious leaders just want my blind obedience, apparently this righteous and moral religion is perfectly okay acquiring followers using lies and deception.

Combine that with my early distrust of any party that wants me to bend the knee and divulge my sins/secrets to a guy with a white collar who claims to represent the Almighty but is really just a man like me... I decided I was just going to walk away from what I perceived was an obvious manmade con game.



Abethedemon said:


> This is true, and I feel like this forum is a good example of that.


Can you clarify what you mean?


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## Yellow Shirt Guy (May 28, 2017)

@Alec Benson Leary Most catholic school theology is mediocre  that doesn't apply to a child's faith where it teaches that  you have like a jesus high. This type of theology surfaced in late 60s-early 70s after vatican II  when the mass was changed. it's shoved down the students throat in a way they do not understand what it all means..A lot of times the kids  see going to church as a force, not understanding what the purpose of mass is.In my church's youth group, we weren't taught how to apply the faith to our own lives, after I got out of that when I graduated high school I didn't know squat about what being catholic meant Until I searched for things on my own 2 years later after I researched other religions. I think 3/4th's of the kids from my youth group I graduated with aren't practicing catholic's anymore, one who is an atheist told me he only went cause his parents forced him.


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## OwO What's This? (May 28, 2017)

our loving god gave us the greatest gift of all: tendies


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## TheImportantFart (May 28, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> When the people here who question or (do not believe) began their questioning, what was it that first caused it?


It was a slow process for me. Like @Alec Benson Leary my family isn't religious, but I went to a Jesuit prep school. To be fair to them, I never felt I was shunned despite being the only kid in the school who wasn't baptised, I just felt a bit left out during communion. So while I wasn't religious, I didn't feel any ill will towards it as a result of my schooling. I just didn't buy into it. And further credit to them, they actually taught evolution in science class. Crazy right?

The closest I came to being religious was when a friend of mine persuaded me to come to a church he was part of during uni. That was the point in my life when I could most confidently say I believed in God. However, my housemates at the time were atheists and they would often challenge me on my belief. I never felt I could give satisfactory answers, so I began to look into Christian apologetics and the works of great theologians like John Lennox, Alister McGrath, William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias, etc.

The more I thought about it, the more unconvincing I found the whole thing and matters worsened when I began watching debates between atheists and Christian apologists, only to watch the apologists get trounced every single time. I'd watch the atheist come in with a set of rational arguments and the apologist come back with special pleading, faulty logic and Olympic-standard mental gymnastics, but nothing that convinced me God was real or the claims of Christianity were true. I slowly went from being a liberal theist to being an agnostic and finally an atheist over the course of about a year. I never felt any ill will towards religion (although there are aspects of it I don't like), I just concluded it wasn't convincing and wasn't for me anymore.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 28, 2017)

Yellow Shirt Guy said:


> @Alec Benson Leary Most catholic school theology is mediocre  that doesn't apply to a child's faith where it teaches that of you have like a jesus high. This type of theology surfaced in late 60s-early 70s after vatican II  when the mass was changed. it's shoved down the students throat in a way they do not understand what it all means..A lot of times the kids  see going to church as a force, not understanding what the purpose of mass is.In my church's youth group, we weren't taught how to apply the faith to our own lives, after I got out of that when I graduated high school I didn't know squat about what being catholic meant Until I searched for things on my own 2 years later after I researched other religions. I think 3/4th's of the kids from my youth group I graduated with aren't practicing catholic's anymore, one who is an atheist told me he only went cause his parents forced him.


Well, if they didn't want to teach their faith to me in a way that actually appealed to me, then that's their loss.

It's the same position I would later take with Social Justice. If some self-righteous movement wants to tell me I'm living life the wrong way and that there's a better way, but 1) they can't prove it and I have to have blind faith and 2) it's my job to educate myself because they can't even be bothered to understand that _they _want _me _and not the other way around, then I'm just not interested.


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## AnOminous (May 28, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> Teacher was quick on her feet. She said "oh, well, God actually made a practice Earth first, and that Earth had the dinosaurs. When He was done he blew that world up and used the debris to make the Earth we live on, and that's why we can find dinosaur bones buried everywhere."



That's not the Vatican position on evolution.  Nor has it been for some time.


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## Yellow Shirt Guy (May 28, 2017)

TheImportantFart said:


> It was a slow process for me. Like @Alec Benson Leary my family isn't religious, but I went to a Jesuit prep school. To be fair to them, I never felt I was shunned despite being the only kid in the school who wasn't baptised, I just felt a bit left out during communion. So while I wasn't religious, I didn't feel any ill will towards it as a result of my schooling. I just didn't buy into it. And further credit to them, they actually taught evolution in science class. Crazy right?
> 
> The closest I came to being religious was when a friend of mine persuaded me to come to a church he was part of during uni. That was the point in my life when I could most confidently say I believed in God. However, my housemates at the time were atheists and they would often challenge me on my belief. I never felt I could give satisfactory answers, so I began to look into Christian apologetics and the works of great theologians like John Lennox, Alister McGrath, William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias, etc.
> 
> The more I thought about it, the more unconvincing I found the whole thing and matters worsened when I began watching debates between atheists and Christian apologists, only to watch the apologists get trounced every single time. I'd watch the atheist come in with a set of rational arguments and the apologist come back with special pleading, faulty logic and Olympic-standard mental gymnastics, but nothing that convinced me God was real or the claims of Christianity were true. I slowly went from being a liberal theist to being an agnostic and finally an atheist over the course of about a year. I never felt any ill will towards religion (although there are aspects of it I don't like), I just concluded it wasn't convincing and wasn't for me anymore.


The Jesuit's are pretty liberal compared to the rest of catholicism, along with the vincentians, those groups had the most influence when Catholicism changed in the late 60's when the mass changed, priests and nuns dressed less conservative (wore habits and cassock the long gown) and they argued the church didn't outwardly symbols like those, and the mass wasn't modern and that people can interpret the church by how they feel and it will be alright. One Jesuit priest in the Vatican Fr James Martin influences this theology there, his views border on heresy compared to the rest of catholic scholars.


----------



## Abethedemon (May 28, 2017)

@Alec Benson Leary
What I mean by the forum being a good example is that countless Lolcows here are affected by fiction in such a drastic matter that it makes their lives radically different than if they had outside interests. Religion actively encourages outside interests, whereas someone like OPL has none, and has been completely consumed by fandom.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 28, 2017)

Abethedemon said:


> @Alec Benson Leary
> What I mean by the forum being a good example is that countless Lolcows here are affected by fiction in such a drastic matter that it makes their lives radically different than if they had outside interests. Religion actively encourages outside interests, whereas someone like OPL has none, and has been completely consumed by fandom.


I don't know if I agree that religion in general encourages outside interests (some do I'm sure), but I get what you're saying now, thanks.


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## Ol' Slag (Jun 1, 2017)

Yes.


----------



## Lokamayadon (Jun 1, 2017)

Ol' Slag said:


> Yes.


I respectfully disagree.


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## Ol' Slag (Jun 2, 2017)

Lokamayadon said:


> I respectfully disagree.



As do I.


----------



## Tootsie Bear (Jun 2, 2017)

In my opinion the concept could mean almost anything to anyone or any believer.


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## feedtheoctopus (Jun 2, 2017)

The vikings believed that the oceans are made from the blood of the primordial giant Ymir. Once, because I am a strange man, I went to the beach, sat down on a rock, and dwelt on that while overlooking the waves. The sky, they thought, was the skull of Ymir, held up by 4 dwarfs. It seems utterly ridiculous, but of course from their perspective this made total sense. And if you sit on the beach and try hard to imagine it you can almost kind of see where they were coming from. 
The universe is so utterly vast that human beings naturally try to fit it into some sort of pattern that makes sense to them, some sort of chain of events. I don't think we're built to handle the concept of infinity, and the complexity and size of the natural universe is such that it is almost incomprehensible and even somewhat terrifying. Something that seems to have a power beyond anything man can fathom. God, or the idea of god, is something that puts that into context for people. 

Is there actually a god? Weirdly I don't think it matters. If there is or isn't, you're still here, on earth, and it is only how you act that defines you. You are tiny and insignificant in the face of the universe. You live a finite existence. There is no point in trying to comprehend the incomprehensible. That you are alive at all is enough of a miracle. You don't need any more.


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## PerishableDryGoods (Jun 2, 2017)

I think there's a god but the Bible is a tool to  get humans to be moral on their own without the need for a rigid belief system, and  I still think evolution and science are correct. Essentially I see God as having created the conditions that created the universe.  I think he  influences it every now and again and finds practical ways to guide humans to be better.


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## Yellow Shirt Guy (Jun 3, 2017)

PerishableDryGoods said:


> I think there's a god but the Bible is a tool to  get humans to be moral on their own without the need for a rigid belief system, and  I still think evolution and science are correct. Essentially I see God as having created the conditions that created the universe.  I think he  influences it every now and again and finds practical ways to guide humans to be better.


So your like a deist.


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## PerishableDryGoods (Jun 4, 2017)

Yellow Shirt Guy said:


> So your like a deist.



yeah its not really rational guess its just a mental nightlight or baby blanket


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## Camarque (Jun 4, 2017)

According to the simulation argument, there's at least a 33% chance of having something comparable to a diety. Actually, there could be a whole hierarchy of 'gods',  depending on how many realities we are away from the original.


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## Bob's Fries (Jun 13, 2017)




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## Zarkov (Jun 25, 2017)

There's a simple way to check if there really is a God.

Make a God thread in the lolcow board and wait for Him to sperg at us.


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## RADICALGOBLIN (Jul 2, 2017)

There are too much beautiful mistakes for there to be a god.
like all of you!


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## Andrew Noel Schaefer (Jul 2, 2017)

No, there's only us.



RADICALGOBLIN said:


> There are too much beautiful mistakes for there to be a god.
> like all of you!


----------



## TwinkleSnort (Jul 5, 2017)

Since you asked........"Is there a God?"

My answer?

Yes. I believe there is.

YMMV.

I've really enjoyed reading all the replies in this topic.


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## Virus (Jul 5, 2017)

Not really. If there is a God, I don't think it's going to be the all-loving merciful old dude that modern religions worship.
The 'problem of evil' was already discussed a few pages back and I've seen people use the rebuttal of how humans have free will, which caused evil and is therefore not God's fault. Free will does explain 'moral evil', but what about 'natural evil' such as earthquakes, tsunamis, and natural disasters in general? The evil that can cause mass devastation through the environment is not the consequence of human free will, and if God is meant to be omnibenevolent and omniscient then there is really no excuse for allowing the environment of the world to do this to humans. If there is a God, he absolutely cannot be omnibenevolent, omnipotent and omniscient, and therefore not the God that people worship today. Like really, what kind of nice God would deliberately put edges of tectonic plates underneath major countries to cause earthquakes every few years? 

It would be pretty rad to have a whole pantheon of Gods that are just dicking around though. Makes sense considering how shitty the world can be, but there's still some nice stuff happening here and there.


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## Morose_Obesity (Jul 5, 2017)

This reality is kind of a simulation and there definitely may be something on the outside observing it and randomly empowering people (Jesus, etc) to affect our development. It may be a pointless as our reality just being a Sims game for some bored superbeing.


----------



## Lackadaisy (Jul 5, 2017)

Who else can we simultaneously praise/blame for everything?



Spoiler



The Jews


----------



## Tragi-Chan (Jul 5, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> When the people here who question or (do not believe) began their questioning, what was it that first caused it?
> 
> Oftentimes I think it is emotional before it is rational. This isn't to say that opposition to divinities or religions, be they polytheistic, monotheistic, anthropomorphic deities, etc. is unreasonable- in fact it is often quite reasonable- simply that much like with religionists the first inkling tends to come from the heart rather than the head, something I think a lot of atheists are more skittish about. I find things like "no being can rightfully consider itself above me" to be common in skeptical circles, for instance, which is not necessarily an exercise in empiricism since definitions of "above" and "below" or "better" and "worse" are often so subjectively defined by all human beings. It seems like a purely emotional appeal. "I reject this Jesus fella because he thinks he is better than me and my American values taught me that no one is better than me." This isn't _wrong _outright of course, emotional appeals do have value in discussion if only because of philosophical pragmatism ("I believe the things which it is best to believe.") Just something to note.
> 
> I suppose what all of this autism is trying to get at is "what first made you doubt?" I find most began to question things early. I don't meet a lot of adult converts to atheism or agnosticism. People have usually decided one way or the other by then. Of course most still continue to question individual things, or change belief systems, and so on. I don't mean to question that.


For me, it was rationality that caused me to stop believing, and I didn't fully "convert" to atheism until I was 20. For years I'd gone along with the idea that the earth was hundreds of billions of years old and everything has a scientific explanation while simultaneously believing in the concept of Jesus as a divine figure who died for our sins. The problem was that the more I learned about objectively provable reality, the harder it was to believe in God as depicted in the Bible. I was trying to come up with all sorts of explanations as to how they could both be correct, and meanwhile there was this logical part of me in the background pointing out that they couldn't, and meanwhile one had concrete evidence and the other didn't.

I think these days that if there is a God, it can't be anything remotely like the one in any major religion, because it's just not scientifically possible. If there is one, it's probably so inhuman as to be incomprehensible to us.


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## Alec Benson Leary (Jul 6, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> When the people here who question or (do not believe) began their questioning, what was it that first caused it?


I think it's oversimplifying to refer to nonbelievers by when they "began" questioning, because that makes it sound like we all started as believers. I never began, I simply didn't buy what I was being told to begin with.


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## Zebedee (Jul 6, 2017)

I have had an insane theory, probably because I'm high as shit.

But whatever, here goes.

Scientists have actually proven the existence of a force that does indeed permeate everything, thus being omni-present and additionally is a prime candidate for being responsible for quite literally everything, making it all powerful. It cannot be created or destroyed by any means that we know of, only be changed from one form to another, but it does have a singular source. 

This is most commonly known as either the EM spectrum (electromagnetic spectrum), radiation or just plain energy.

Think about it for a minute, even things made of matter possess a half life and break back down into radiation eventually, thus creating the idea of an eternal afterlife that we as humans cannot truly perceive.

The only questions that remain are whether:

A) If it is alive?
B) If it is sentient?
C) Is it aware that it made us?
D) Does it even care?


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## Lensherr (Jul 8, 2017)

My belief is that there is a God who didn't outright create the universe, but merely guided it along the path that he wanted it to. The Big Bang happened, evolution happened, but they were both subject to divine intervention at certain points when things looked like they were going to go crashing off the rails. This ties into my belief that there is a scientific, rational explanation for God, likely in the form of higher beings living in a far off universe that visited our planet several times throughout human history in order to provide us with the guidance that we needed. 

Also, Dennis Prager and Michael Shermer recently had a conversation on the Rubin Report about belief vs non-belief that was really interesting:


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## TaterBot (Jul 8, 2017)

It is my belief there is.


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## Zebedee (Jul 16, 2017)

TaterBot said:


> It is my belief there is.



Descriptive and in-depth, akin to my own previous comment.


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## Zeorus (Jul 16, 2017)

I think there is but I don't buy into the idea that some Protestants have latched onto that one can prove God's existence. If God exists, I think it would be a matter of self-interest to ensure that his existence can't be empirically proven or disproven.


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## Bob's Fries (Jul 16, 2017)

I dunno about you guys, but in this timeline I think if a God exists, he'd be a bored morally questionable shitposter like all of us.


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## Zebedee (Jul 16, 2017)

Bob's Fries said:


> I dunno about you guys, but in this timeline I think if a God exists, he'd be a bored morally questionable shitposter like all of us.



Shit, looks like the game is up, time to sockpuppet another account.


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## c-no (Jul 16, 2017)

Personally I believe there is a god though on that same note, it's just my own view. Beyond my own thoughts, I could be dead wrong. Maybe there is no god, maybe there is a pantheon of gods. Or maybe that god turns out to be Sonichu who decides to smite us for mocking his prophet CWC with this forum. Whatever there is in belief in a higher power, that shit is gonna vary among individuals. Some of us believe there may be a god, some of us don't. Either way, we all have different reasons, be it we believe in a god working in mysterious ways or we simply are egocentric and want to think we're special in a vast universe that most likely gives no shit about us.


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## jukaboksi (Jul 16, 2017)

God does not exist, if he does he's a pussy for not having an account on KF.


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## Lackadaisy (Jul 21, 2017)

Bob's Fries said:


> I dunno about you guys, but in this timeline I think if a God exists, he'd be a bored morally questionable shitposter like all of us.



God essentially shitposted the universe into existence and is now watching it burn.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Jul 21, 2017)

I don't like the question, it sets monotheism to default but I believe that there are many Gods, many pantheons, many spirits from many cultures and lands throughout time. There is a great multiplicity of the Divine in our universe that people in the West have stopped appreciating in the last couple millennia and we're worse off for it. 

As for "God", I believe the Abrahamic God is a false and corrupt distortion of a Semitic God which would have existed within a pantheon. Perhaps the God got selfish and wanted all the worship to Himself, hence Abrahamic religion obsession with muh one gawd.


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## AnOminous (Jul 21, 2017)

Daughter of Pomona said:


> As for "God", I believe the Abrahamic God is a false and corrupt distortion of a Semitic God which would have existed within a pantheon. Perhaps the God got selfish and wanted all the worship to Himself, hence Abrahamic religion obsession with muh one gawd.



The Old Testament certainly has vestiges of polytheism in it, even naming some of the particularly detested rival gods, such as Moloch.  And never mind the Song of Solomon, by the crafty devil who got his pagan love song right in the Bible.


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## DuskEngine (Jul 21, 2017)

There is no God but God and Muhammad is His Prophet


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## TwinkleSnort (Jul 21, 2017)

Jesus is my God. YMMV.


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## Gooseunderscore (Jul 31, 2017)

Jesus is my city.


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## KickyerArsene (Sep 23, 2017)

Back in my fedora tipping teens, I would say things like "Fuck God lol" but as times have changed, especially with this ultra-leftist SJW crap in the last decade, I've found myself favoring a more conservative mindset. I don't side with either extreme, but the "alt-right" I feel are closer to sane human beings than anything the left is about these days.

Now I feel if religion works for someone, cool. I have some good friends actually, and have known some great people, who are that way because they were way religious. Do I think you need to be religious to be a cool person? Not exactly, but if I chose between either of the extremes today, it would be the right every time. The people I couldn't stand when I was a teen, ironically enough.

So to answer the thread, no I don't believe in a God, but I'd rather people believe in that than all the PC shit that's catching momentum online.


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## El Porko Fako (Sep 30, 2017)

Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> Sorry, I don't buy it.
> 
> I think my biggest beef is "God" taking credit for everything that happens. By that definition, *we're* God.
> Since only we control our lives.
> I know I do.





Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> Never applied to the ones I've known. They give "God" (or whoever) credit for literally everything. Even one time I merely left the house a little earlier and ran into them, who said, "Oh, thank Jesus he brought you here."
> Clearly annoyed, but not wanting to be rude, I say, "No... it was me. I just got up early."
> "Well, he made it so."
> 
> And other such things really left a negative impression on me.





Laughs_Under_Lucricities said:


> Yeeeah... we're going to have to agree to disagree. I do not share that notion at all.
> I don't go around forcing my Atheism on anyone like they do with theirs, even when no one asks for it.



4 months later.....



KickyerArsene said:


> Back in my fedora tipping teens, I would say things like "Fuck God lol" but as times have changed, especially with this ultra-leftist SJW crap in the last decade, I've found myself favoring a more conservative mindset. I don't side with either extreme, but the "alt-right" I feel are closer to sane human beings than anything the left is about these days.
> 
> Now I feel if religion works for someone, cool. I have some good friends actually, and have known some great people, who are that way because they were way religious. Do I think you need to be religious to be a cool person? Not exactly, but if I chose between either of the extremes today, it would be the right every time. The people I couldn't stand when I was a teen, ironically enough.
> 
> So to answer the thread, no I don't believe in a God, but I'd rather people believe in that than all the PC shit that's catching momentum online.



Well, glad to see you've changed your tune on religious people just a little bit there pal. Now if only you could stop thirsting after those female kiwis and not out your own sock, you'd be set.

Not quite out of M'lady woods yet, but I think you can get there. If you come back with a 4th sock with even better behavior, I'll be sure to thank Jesus for helping you become a better person.


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## AnOminous (Sep 30, 2017)

There is no God.

It's a proven fact.


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## ForgottenAcct (Sep 30, 2017)

I'd consider myself an agnostic; I think that by virtue of something existing rather than nothing -- in a universe that favors nothing over something on a long enough timescale -- that there must have been a sort of prime mover. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean said mover is a God in any contemporary religious sense, or that it's even a sentient entity, but anything that heaves forth all of creation gets a lowercase g god status in my book, at least. That says nothing for features people tend to tack onto belief in a god like an afterlife or souls. I think it's a bit dishonest to deny the possibility entirely; ontology is a tricky subject and becomes difficult to hold any solid explanation to.

Either there are some real things exempt from logic or logic itself ceases to exist at a certain point, otherwise there wouldn't be a start to a finite universe. Without any causal logic to operate on prior to "the beginning", a mundane and supernatural cause are equally (un)likely.


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## BoingBoingBoi (Sep 30, 2017)

http://selfpace.uconn.edu/class/percep/DescartesMeditations.pdf


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## Shokew (Sep 30, 2017)

I believe there is (just like there is an antithesis to it)... Unlike my family, I don't make a big deal out of it, however.


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## Joan Nyan (Sep 30, 2017)

Is there some kind of first cause that created the universe in the first place? Sure, and I guess you can call that God, but that's really stretching the definition of God to the point where you're basically just personifying the Big Bang. Is there anything that a religious person would recognize as "God"? lol no


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## Shokew (Sep 30, 2017)

TBH, I just wish people would stop making stories about the Book of Revelation - it's all scare - mongering BS that's more of a turnoff than anything...
Also, these people's obsession with the world ending because God said so? Both annoying and embarrassing. Even better, it shows how little they care about reality, society, and in worse cases, themselves, their friends/family, as well as maintaining common sense.


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## bbpoison (Oct 2, 2017)

God is waiting...


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## Puppet Pal Clem (Oct 3, 2017)

Gods exist as memes.
You can interact with them, talk to them, they bend and change over time, grow as people, they can influence your life and decisions.
They are as real as any other mental construct, so yes.

A similar question would be: Is math real? Is English real?
Is there such a thing as [an objective order the universe]?

Gods are archetypal structures that allow humans to communicate understanding of natural order through storytelling.
Each God is a word that acts as a representation of some literal or objective natural concept.
It plays a role in the setting, and we learn their behavior, and what to anticipate from the world from their example.

Is there *a* God?
There's the lameass answer of simply the fact that you can conceive of a being that represents the totality of existence, being yes.
And the vacuous, it really doesn't matter either way.
There's no functional distinction between the supernatural understanding of the Christian YHWH, and the interpretation of it as a fictional being.
You can still pray to it, and have your prayers answered.

Atheism's great hurdle in the coming century will be in whether it can come to terms with the memetic structure of religion and its undeniability.
There is inherent value in have fantastical and optimistic models of the world in that they can explain much more profound associations with less time and effort.
It's easier and more efficient to explain the generalized relationship of the Sun and Moon and the Earth through romantic stories, than it is to elaborate on scientific notions of gravity and mass.
These two means of communication can coexist simultaneously, and both have their own value.
Beyond that we're naturally designed to learn and communicate in this way.
We don't have bits and bytes, we have backpropagated networks of classifying neurons that can only appreciate within certain confidences. 
We have no ultimate objective understanding of reality.
Even something as simple as having confidence or hope in the face of future rather than cold objective indifference can profoundly influence the behavior and outcomes that we achieve.

God I'm such a huge fucking faggot.


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## Clownfish (Oct 3, 2017)

I don't believe there is a God but I believe everything comes from Chaos.

It's pantheism but with some distinct differences

Pantheism is the idea God is in everything and that all it is expression of The Source.

With Chaos it same except it allows for the idea that there can be multiple sources, we can exist and not exist as same time and so on.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Oct 10, 2017)

It depends on your definition of god. There's people in Vanuatu who worship Prince Philip, and I'm pretty damn sure Prince Philip is real.


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## Hui (Oct 10, 2017)

Daughter of Pomona said:


> As for "God", I believe the Abrahamic God is a false and corrupt distortion of a Semitic God which would have existed within a pantheon. Perhaps the God got selfish and wanted all the worship to Himself, hence Abrahamic religion obsession with muh one gawd.


Nigga SMT is not real.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Oct 10, 2017)

Hui said:


> Nigga SMT is not real.


I don't know what SMT is.


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## Hui (Oct 10, 2017)

I just spoiled for you an entire gaming franchise then.


----------



## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Oct 10, 2017)

Daughter of Pomona said:


> I don't know what SMT is.


 Shin Megami Tensei. It's a series of games like pokemon except instead of pikachu you have literally satan. You should check it out, the games are pretty great.

There's one game where you can even catch this demonic dick chariot:


Spoiler


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Oct 10, 2017)

That's okay I don't play games but I'll read about it since it has themes similar to my own theological beliefs.


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## Hui (Oct 10, 2017)

Last game was essentially that.


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## Todesfurcht (Oct 13, 2017)

I wish.


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## Surtur (Oct 15, 2017)

No


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## Burgers in the ass (Oct 15, 2017)

I don't know, I mean there's problably a chance of there not being a god, but still, I don't know.


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## a doot skel (Oct 15, 2017)

I'm an agnostic deist.

Basically, I'd like to believe there's a benevolent higher power out there, but that is my one and only religious belief and the details run no deeper.

So for me, the answer is: I hope so.


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## UncleFezziesPantsPuppet (Oct 15, 2017)

If there is a God, then he's the first troll. I mean, look at humanity


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## UptownRuckus (Nov 16, 2017)

For me, I call it a God, but that's simply just another way of saying a creator. The way I think of it...it's really rough to say that we just existed from nothing. It's like saying that a book filled with pictures and color, and paper, just kinda fell from nothing. I kinda believe someone made us. While I don't know who that someone is, I at least believe in a creator who made us for some purpose to which I don't know yet. 
What does this do for me? For me it just makes me want to be a good person. Good is however you wanna define it...I have my own, and everyone has theirs. I'd say believing in a God, or creator, or being who made us, makes me want to do good. I don't know. I just hope I can figure the puzzle out. Only being alive for 100~ years is very short.
#DeepElf


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## SregginKcuf (Nov 25, 2017)

Of course there is God. Only one God.

You Atheists don't believe in him? You only believe what you see?

Well..

...has one of you seen electricity?


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## AnOminous (Nov 25, 2017)

SregginKcuf said:


> Of course there is God. Only one God.
> 
> You Atheists don't believe in him? You only believe what you see?
> 
> ...



Yes.


----------



## Florence (Nov 25, 2017)

SregginKcuf said:


> Of course there is God. Only one God.
> 
> You Atheists don't believe in him? You only believe what you see?
> 
> ...


----------



## Doug_Hitzel (Nov 25, 2017)

SregginKcuf said:


> Of course there is God. Only one God.
> 
> You Atheists don't believe in him? You only believe what you see?
> 
> ...


Have you seen Jesus lately? I need him to mow my lawn.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Nov 25, 2017)

Unfortunately, no.


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## Hiragana (Nov 28, 2017)

SregginKcuf said:


> Of course there is God. Only one God.
> 
> You Atheists don't believe in him? You only believe what you see?
> 
> ...


Bitch, please. I can create electricity.

Humanity also invented these things called power plants. Currently, one of them is allowing you to use the internet.


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## Kyria the Great (Nov 28, 2017)

I believe that there is probably a higher power, but I am trying to figure out what form it takes as I soul search for myself.


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## Sure Thing Idiot (Dec 2, 2017)

I think there is a god, or some inexplicable thing, that in all facets of comprehension transcends human understanding. Not some bearded man in the sky, or a giant multi-colored eye, but something that is fully incomprehensible and cannot be understood. Like if it showed itself to you right now, you still wouldn't get it. I don't think it's a thing in any physical way either. It just is. My personal take on it is that all people are trying to reach it in some way, actively or subconsciously, whether through atheism or religion, by embracing, loving, hating, questioning or denying it.


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## Secret Asshole (Dec 2, 2017)

I'm an agnostic misanthrope: Humanity is far too fucking stupid to ever figure out if there is a higher power or not.


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## Dooly Tilly (Dec 3, 2017)

God is a fantasy creation, of course, with the development of philosophy/science, we can logically exclude the god concepts from our consciousness.

All forms of theism are irrational/lies, but all forms of agnosticism are also irrational.


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## Dooly Tilly (Dec 4, 2017)

I'm surprised the agnostics didn't shit the bed when I stated that agnosticism is irrational.


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## SregginKcuf (Dec 8, 2017)

The big bang is a lie. How could that have happened?


----------



## Dooly Tilly (Dec 9, 2017)

SregginKcuf said:


> The big bang is a lie. How could that have happened?


It didn't, more irrational something from nothing fantasy. 
We can't even visualise infinite density, ie, it's strictly mathematical, meaning we have no physical reference point.


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## SregginKcuf (Dec 14, 2017)

Nevermind, what I wrote was unbiblical too.

It is a trinity. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

God is the Holy Father in heaven.

Jesus is god too. He became a human over 2,000 years ago and died for our sins.

And the Holy Spirit is not symbolic. He is a part of us when we call Jesus into our lives.


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## flock of doves (Dec 14, 2017)

i am open to a god existing. i am open to being convinced that //insert religion here// is the way. but not until i can get cold, hard evidence to suggest so. currently i identify as a laveyan satanist (which, before all y'all religious folks pounce on me for, this branch of satanism is basically just atheism with a dogma. no satan honey) and i am open to discussing things civilly with all of you. this should be fun.

currently, my stance on at least christianity is... well if we're going off the bible here, it's completely false. so many contradicting statements and weird scriptures and... when you look at it with pure logic and scientific evidence that directly opposes the christian church's teachings, the whole religion crumbles apart. for instance, why did god sacrifice himself, to himself... to appease himself? i don't understand. if someone would like to talk with me about this, i'm open to doing so on this thread.


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## DNJACK (Dec 14, 2017)

I believe in a god. However, I'm skeptical to it existing. If one reads William James, he says that religion is real because it produces real results, and because people are changed and affected by religious motivations, that validates the existence for a god. My god, however, is very panentheistic, somewhat of an all consuming figure that both exists and doesn't exist, both good and bad emanate from it and everyone is somehow reacting to it in some way shape or form. My beliefs are very similar to Kabbalistic interpretations of Judaism interspersed with the occasional reverence for Odin and Freja. I think that since people believed in gods, they become legitimate channels to a greater reality. Even if that reality is false, it is still one constructed by humankind, and I believe humankind to be essentially good.


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## Y.V. (Dec 14, 2017)

I do think that if there is a God, it must be above all religions. Always got the sense it wouldn't care whether one religion or the other was correct, just that it would only ultimately care about people, or something. In the end, everyone is free to interpret reality in their own way with their own religions, and so forth. Personally I don't believe in there being a God.


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## DNJACK (Nov 4, 2018)

I kinda miss the roman times when people thought gods were evil rapists.

I kinda like the idea hat there is an all-powerful god and that he doesn't give a flying fuck about you. Except the sexy ladies, where he faps to you when you think you are alone, and that's the whole extent of his caring.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Nov 4, 2018)

I don't believe in the biblical god. But I guess there has to be something.
There are so many unanswered questions regarding how and why the universe came to be. How does nothing become something?


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## Flying_with_the_Penguins (Nov 4, 2018)

I am the beast I worship.


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## Teri-Teri (Nov 5, 2018)

Is there a floating teacup in outer space?


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## PorcupineTree (Nov 5, 2018)

Weird consistencies like the golden ratio and other recurring fractal patterns give me the impression of some underlying structure to the universe. I could see some concept of god being a reality because of this. However, I’m defining God here as an abstract foundation that reality is built upon- something that our brains  have no chance of comprehending. 

The idea of a sentient, omnipotent God with human characteristics and morals seems very unlikely to me.


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## WorldsSmartestManRonOTool (Nov 5, 2018)

I am 100% committed, beyond any doubt,  to my personal belief that there is no god, heaven, hell etc.  That being said, I do respect people who have faith.


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## LN 910 (Nov 5, 2018)

WorldsSmartestManRonOTool said:


> I am 100% committed, beyond any doubt,  to my personal belief that there is no god, heaven, hell etc.  That being said, I do respect people who have faith.


Thanks m9. I guess we'll never know until we pass on.


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## WorldsSmartestManRonOTool (Nov 5, 2018)

2odastream said:


> Thanks m9. I guess we'll never know until we pass on.



I've known some really sincere, genuine people who were firm believers and active in church etc and I would never think anything negatively about them due to having different beliefs.


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## PorcupineTree (Nov 5, 2018)

WorldsSmartestManRonOTool said:


> I've known some really sincere, genuine people who were firm believers and active in church etc and I would never think anything negatively about them due to having different beliefs.



Genuine christians are some of the nicest people to hang around because they stucture their lives on the desire to be decent people.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 6, 2018)

Nope. Or at least.... we have no reason to think there is.  Definitely not the bible god, I bet 1 billion space bux that shit did not happen.

No matter what belief you subscribe to you've still got the same problem as everyone else.  Where did the universe come from? OK, where did the thing that made it come from? OK, now where did the thing that made that come from? Etc.  You haven't solved the problem by refusing to keep asking the question.  Fine, god made everything. So where did he come from then? OK everything started with the big bang. How did that happen? How did all that stuff get there?


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## Guts Gets Some (Nov 9, 2018)

If there is a God, he's a severe shithead, I think that much is a given.

So by my rationale, fuck him either way.


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## DNJACK (Nov 10, 2018)

Guts Gets Some said:


> If there is a God, he's a severe shithead, I think that much is a given.
> 
> So by my rationale, fuck him either way.



As I've said, seeing defaults and holding a god accountable for bad stuff happening used to be widespread and is certainly an interesting idea.

The only other sensible view would be to see him as a force of nature where he is also not thanked for good things happening, just like you don't thank your wood for burning in your fireplace. Not that I know if god would make a good fire if placed in the fireplace anyway. 

Hmm.


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## User names must be unique (Nov 11, 2018)

If there is a god he's some sort of omnipresent kiwi laughing at all the exceptionalism big and small, fuana and flora alike.


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## Emperor Julian (Nov 14, 2018)

Their is too much poetry for life for me to reject the idea but benign sky dad/mum is unlikely. Maybe some detached prime mover or such.


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## MiyaEL (Nov 25, 2018)

SregginKcuf said:


> Nevermind, what I wrote was unbiblical too.
> 
> It is a trinity. The father, the son and the Holy Spirit.
> 
> ...



Tell me if you pay your rent on a Friday afternoon by check and then go into the office Monday morning and your check is still sitting there on the desk so you pick it back up and put it in your pocket and the lady that works there says hey that's your rent check we have to deposit that and you say I paid my rent I'm pretty sure they would argue with you that it doesn't count if you take it back wouldn't you say? So in that same since why would God let his son die and in three days say just kidding and bring him back to life with that not knowing void the very Act of sacrifice to begin with? Because the whole purpose of sacrificing an animal is once something's dead you can't take it back it's permanent however Jesus dying on the cross was not permanent. Furthermore if we were hypothetically kicked out of this Garden for doing what we were told not to do and then Jesus paying that debt off why are we not back in the garden?. And another thing the Bible says that God is the same today and forever never changing and he supposedly cannot contradict himself however he specifically States to only worship him no other gods yet then the Bible says the only way to be saved is through the son which is clearly not the father because he's the son you can call my kids "me" all you want but my kids are not me there my kids.  so then all of a sudden we're supposed to worship two gods? And another thing if I donate sperm to a sperm bank and sign all the proper paperwork I'm legally not bound by child support however there could be a hundred kids running around that are technically mine it's called artificial insemination so then the spirit of God came down into a virgin and took her virginity so to speak which violates Jewish social dogmas and then left her pregnant with an unknown child which in that day and age would have gotten her most likely Stone to death so it was an Unholy consummation so then why would he have to make a body the Bible says Were Made In His Image will if he didn't have a body and had to make one how are we made in His image?


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## jewelry investor (Nov 25, 2018)

If it's something I can't be thankful to a person for, I thank God.


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## Vyxenn (Nov 25, 2018)

There's a god if you believe.


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## Wurstbrot (Nov 26, 2018)

All these lolcows and I should expect there is a god? Maybe if some higher being proved without a doubt they were made for "us" to laugh at.
But for realz, I'll "believe" in a god of any kind as soon as there is any empirical proof and not just earthly words created by mankind. Then it wouldn't be believe anymore, but a fact, knowledge. Following or worshipping is a very different topic.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 26, 2018)

MiyaEL said:


> Tell me if you pay your rent on a Friday afternoon by check and then go into the office Monday morning and your check is still sitting there on the desk so you pick it back up and put it in your pocket and the lady that works there says hey that's your rent check we have to deposit that and you say I paid my rent I'm pretty sure they would argue with you that it doesn't count if you take it back wouldn't you say? So in that same since why would God let his son die and in three days say just kidding and bring him back to life with that not knowing void the very Act of sacrifice to begin with? Because the whole purpose of sacrificing an animal is once something's dead you can't take it back it's permanent however Jesus dying on the cross was not permanent. Furthermore if we were hypothetically kicked out of this Garden for doing what we were told not to do and then Jesus paying that debt off why are we not back in the garden?. And another thing the Bible says that God is the same today and forever never changing and he supposedly cannot contradict himself however he specifically States to only worship him no other gods yet then the Bible says the only way to be saved is through the son which is clearly not the father because he's the son you can call my kids "me" all you want but my kids are not me there my kids.  so then all of a sudden we're supposed to worship two gods? And another thing if I donate sperm to a sperm bank and sign all the proper paperwork I'm legally not bound by child support however there could be a hundred kids running around that are technically mine it's called artificial insemination so then the spirit of God came down into a virgin and took her virginity so to speak which violates Jewish social dogmas and then left her pregnant with an unknown child which in that day and age would have gotten her most likely Stone to death so it was an Unholy consummation so then why would he have to make a body the Bible says Were Made In His Image will if he didn't have a body and had to make one how are we made in His image?



Uhh... what the fuck? Did you honestly type this, or is it some copypasta I've not had the misfortune to see before?  Because if you typed this yourself, you need to go to a psychiatrist immediately.  I don't know exactly what's wrong, but clearly something is broken.


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## BeanBidan (Nov 26, 2018)

ICameToplaY said:


> Is there a floating teacup in outer space?


Britain can't afford to go to space lol. Das silly.


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## DNJACK (Nov 26, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Uhh... what the fuck? Did you honestly type this, or is it some copypasta I've not had the misfortune to see before?  Because if you typed this yourself, you need to go to a psychiatrist immediately.  I don't know exactly what's wrong, but clearly something is broken.


no it's fairly reasonable.

and people write long texts about religion, nothing new here. Like have you seen the bible? it's long as fuck and not really well written either.


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## MiyaEL (Nov 27, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> no it's fairly reasonable.
> 
> and people write long texts about religion, nothing new here. Like have you seen the bible? it's long as fuck and not really well written either.


Haha ok now that was funny haha


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## MiyaEL (Nov 27, 2018)

And I used voice to text program so sometimes it's not that intelligent win converting what I say into a written sentence and then there's the dumbass Factor also.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 27, 2018)

MiyaEL said:


> And I used voice to text program so sometimes it's not that intelligent win converting what I say into a written sentence and then there's the dumbass Factor also.


Ah, that's an interesting piece of information.  Then I'll try to stop criticizing your hard to read posts, since you have an actual reason.

Do you have to do that for some reason, or do you simply prefer to? I can't imagine having to speak instead of type, it's so much slower and less accurate.


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## OhGoy (Nov 27, 2018)

yes,

and it's @Y2K Baby


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## AP1X (Nov 27, 2018)

We were created because a bunch of rocks smashed together.  Now you might be asking yourself, "Ap1x what created those rocks" and to your stupid question I would answer rocks.  Unless god is a rock there is no god.


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## ToroidalBoat (Nov 27, 2018)

I believe God exists, but I believe God (the Father) isn't some old dude with a beard like in the traditional "Sistine Chapel sense" -- instead He is an incomprehensible infinite Being and the source of existence.

And even if you don't believe in God, you could still say love/truth/wisdom/goodness itself is God, even if just as abstract concept.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 28, 2018)

ToroidalBoat said:


> And even if you don't believe in God, you could still say love/truth/wisdom/goodness itself is God, even if just as abstract concept.



I guess, if you really don't want to hurt religious people's feelings or something.  Or you could say the only thing that technically fits the definition of god is the universe itself, but the universe itself doesn't take form and speak to people through shrubbery conflagrations, so....

I'm gonna say it's the people taking about God that are wrong, and not do a bunch of mental gymnastics to make them somehow right.


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## pentylspacer2600 (Nov 29, 2018)

its likely that at some point given the whole big crunch big expansion deal which i also agree with there has been a being with the attributes we use to describe gods but organized religions have so many continuity errors and things un-testable then found today to be bullshit now so i don't think any mainstream religion today is doing much more than making people feel bad about themselves and lulling people into a false sense of security.


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## Mister Qwerty (Nov 29, 2018)

Excerpt From: "*The Western Lands" by Willam S. Burroughs*

 "Consider the One God Universe: OGU. The spirit recoils in horror from such a deadly impasse. He is all-powerful and all-knowing. Because He can do everything, He can do nothing, since the act of doing demands opposition. He knows everything so there is nothing for him to learn. He can't go anywhere since He is already fucking everywhere, like cowshit in Calcutta.  The OGU is a pre-recorded universe of which He is the recorder. It's a flat, thermodynamic universe, since it has no friction by definition. So he invents friction and conflict, pain, fear, sickness, famine, war, old age, Death. His OGU is running down like an old clock. Takes more and more and more to make fewer and fewer Energy Units of Sek, as we call it in the trade.  The Magical Universe, MU, is a universe of many gods, often in conflict. So the paradox of an all-powerful, all-knowing God who permits suffering, evil and death, does not arise."


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## Joan Nyan (Nov 29, 2018)

The argument for either religion or atheism is based on the assumption that humans are even capable of knowing where the universe came from, and thus, if there's a God.

Exodus 33:20
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

I think we're debating things far outside the realm of human comprehension. Like an ant trying to learn calculus.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Nov 29, 2018)

ToroidalBoat said:


> instead He is an incomprehensible infinite Being and the source of existence.



Also he/she/it is an asshole or so weak that it can't stop bad things from happening.



Jon-Kacho said:


> think we're debating things far outside the realm of human comprehension



If there is an actual answer why wouldn't it possible for mere humans to understand it?


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 29, 2018)

Jon-Kacho said:


> The argument for either religion or atheism is based on the assumption that humans are even capable of knowing where the universe came from, and thus, if there's a God.
> 
> Exodus 33:20
> And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
> ...


OK

Corbin Dallas Multipass: 30581:11

I said "Nope nobody knows where fire comes from it's probably magic don't bother"

My quote is as valid as yours. Perhaps more so, because my citation is definitely correct, whereas the bible often attributes the few factual things within it to the wrong people and time periods.

Yes, every investigation into a fact is an assumption that we can comprehend it.  So far, we keep comprehending more stuff. Why stop now?  But it's not "Can you possibly know" it's "Why should you believe its true".

How could you possibly know the number of Pokeballs buried in the core of mars?  So how can you say I'm probably wrong when I say there are exactly 355 pokeballs in the core of mars?

But before I accidentally start a new religion, I want to be clear, although I can't prove it, there's no reason to think any pokeballs exist anywhere, including mars.


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## ToroidalBoat (Nov 29, 2018)

Sinners Sandwich said:


> Also he/she/it is an asshole or so weak that it can't stop bad things from happening.


That's the gist of the Epicurus Paradox.

If God exists and is love, God's power in this world could be very limited as you suggest -- just like love as an abstract concept isn't bound by time and space, yet it can't exactly do much on its' own.

Or it could be that evil is allowed so we're not forced or compelled to be good, allowing us to choose.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Nov 29, 2018)

horsemeat69 said:


> make poor decisions and show yourself to struggle under pressure, and you are a reject from the exercise and go to the largest trashcan in the universe;



That's earth.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 30, 2018)

horsemeat69 said:


> I always liked the idea that this life is one big test; a simulation of sorts. People are put through different life situations to see how they react - make poor decisions and show yourself to struggle under pressure, and you are a reject from the exercise and go to the largest trashcan in the universe; show yourself to be able to think objectively and not fall for tricks and tempations - go on to serve some further purpose.
> 
> You could make a solid case that the God of Christianity is running some kind of operation along these lines. You even get to tie in a bit of 40K, as there is (very limited) Biblical evidence that some kind of eternal spiritual war is being waged, and that we are not God's first creation.


None of that fits with an all knowing god.  Why test your own creations acting within the framework of another of your creations when you already know the outcome? You knew the outcome before you did it. A rather pointless test, isn't it?

Now if you want to propose a less than all knowing god these sorts of things start to work (sorta) but that's not the bible god.  Then you're looking at something more like an advance form of life or something.

I mean, I can totally buy some extra intelligent human-like beings doing some dumb fucking shit like that, because I see the dumb fucking shit humans get up to.  We love creating unrealistic and unwinnable virtue tests.


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## horsemeat69 (Dec 2, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> None of that fits with an all knowing god.  Why test your own creations acting within the framework of another of your creations when you already know the outcome? You knew the outcome before you did it. A rather pointless test, isn't it?
> 
> Now if you want to propose a less than all knowing god these sorts of things start to work (sorta) but that's not the bible god.  Then you're looking at something more like an advance form of life or something.
> 
> I mean, I can totally buy some extra intelligent human-like beings doing some dumb fucking shit like that, because I see the dumb fucking shit humans get up to.  We love creating unrealistic and unwinnable virtue tests.



Its a challenging topic, because it essentially forces me/the opposing party to both define God's abilities, and then also their intentions - which is difficult to do given the limited amount of evidence we have to work with. But its a very interesting question nethertheless

Heres what we do know with at least some degree of certainty
1. Theres no evidence he is actively anticipating at the time that the Jews would prove to be lousy followers, and this only gradually became apparent as time went on
2. There is some evidence that he was open to the possibility of Job remaining faithful, or turning away during his trial
3. Theres some evidence he knew the OT plan would go to shit, as there are a few passages in the OT outlining Jesus coming in the far future - but these passages are written quite a bit later, so its difficult to say exactly where Jesus is an optional plan B, or whether he knew from the very start that Jesus would be required.

With these three points in mind, "all knowing" has always been a bit of a strawman. It looks like God's able to know/predict outcomes, but also open to the the possibility of things changing. From this ill conclude - what says he doesnt have different action plans for different outcomes? Different forks in the road open up different threads of fate, and you could make the case that God simply has a different action plan for different threads.


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## MiyaEL (Dec 5, 2018)

horsemeat69 said:


> Its a challenging topic, because it essentially forces me/the opposing party to both define God's abilities, and then also their intentions - which is difficult to do given the limited amount of evidence we have to work with. But its a very interesting question nethertheless
> 
> Heres what we do know with at least some degree of certainty
> 1. Theres no evidence he is actively anticipating at the time that the Jews would prove to be lousy followers, and this only gradually became apparent as time went on
> ...



The name Jesus is not the original name the original name was yeshua the Christ . yeshua in English means salvation and Christ means anointed one but different languages can be complicated it's anointed one yet in a sense hands towards an oil like anointing oil can like some languages have masculine and feminine words so when you fully translate it it would say that God is going to send his anointed oil of salvation to save man. With that said hopefully it'll be easier to understand when I say it was never a person it was a thing that happened in that thing was the sacred secretion the Christos oil that sits in your spine at the base for 3 days before Rising back up again to the pituitary gland ancient text were usually done in a metaphorical sense like a story where all the characters are just merely representing something else so you have to translate it even though it's in your language


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 5, 2018)

horsemeat69 said:


> Its a challenging topic, because it essentially forces me/the opposing party to both define God's abilities, and then also their intentions - which is difficult to do given the limited amount of evidence we have to work with. But its a very interesting question nethertheless
> 
> Heres what we do know with at least some degree of certainty
> 1. Theres no evidence he is actively anticipating at the time that the Jews would prove to be lousy followers, and this only gradually became apparent as time went on
> ...




Hey I'm not the one who wrote "Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent" in the bible.  That's judeo-christian god. If you're talking about a god with incomplete knowledge you're not talking about that one.  God can do ANYTHING can't he?

He made EVERYTHING.  How can he not know the outcome? The universe within which the outcome is occurring was created by him, the rules were defined by him. He's not a dude with a shitty meat computer in his head, he's outside of time and space, as he created those things.  

If god doesn't know everything why should we listen to his rules? What gives him any authority?


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## DNJACK (Dec 6, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Hey I'm not the one who wrote "Omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent" in the bible.  That's judeo-christian god. If you're talking about a god with incomplete knowledge you're not talking about that one.  God can do ANYTHING can't he?
> 
> He made EVERYTHING.  How can he not know the outcome? The universe within which the outcome is occurring was created by him, the rules were defined by him. He's not a dude with a shitty meat computer in his head, he's outside of time and space, as he created those things.
> 
> If god doesn't know everything why should we listen to his rules? What gives him any authority?



authority is not derived from knowledge, not matter how you look at it. Authority can come from:
1. Making people want to follow, for example with promises of an afterlife.
2. power to crush dissent, or making people believe you can crush dissent, by sending people to hell for example.
3 A mix of the two

None of those require any knowledge, or any real extraordinary power. See cult leader successes for reference.
I mean it's quite obvious the bible could just be propaganda for a lesser demon or whatever. How would we know?


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 7, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> authority is not derived from knowledge, not matter how you look at it. Authority can come from:
> 1. Making people want to follow, for example with promises of an afterlife.
> 2. power to crush dissent, or making people believe you can crush dissent, by sending people to hell for example.
> 3 A mix of the two
> ...



Uhh....

Yeah, the bible is not true.  I suppose it could be not true, but there is magical stuff, just different magical stuff than it says there is.  That's a fun theory I guess, like Satan is actually the good guy but god's got a better PR department.

But if you're talking from the point of view that the bible is the true account of god's will or whatever, then god knew exactly what he was doing, because the bible makes it clear he can't not know exactly what he's doing.


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## Hellbound Hellhound (Dec 8, 2018)

I've always seen God as a projection of what humans ultimately desire in themselves; most notably: the desire for ultimate power. I don't think it is a coincidence that the gods people worship always end up reflecting the preoccupations and the prejudices of the people who worship them, I see it as a simple manifestation of the human super-ego at work.


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## DNJACK (Dec 8, 2018)

some people just want to die, so they worship nothing?


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## Heckler1 (Dec 8, 2018)

The idea of any God being real should be terrifying, in a way that we as humans don't' really experience atm. The existence of a divine being immediately changes our place in the universe and our very identity. If any god is real, then we are probably somewhere between how we view a lesser animal that we are fond of(yet is obvious separate from us) or insects. If I may borrow from Lovecraft, chances are our perception of an actual deity might actually cause us to lose our minds or otherwise alter us. There's even a bit in the OT where Moses briefly views a portion of God, and it physically changes him for the rest of his life. 

I guess my main point is any God is scary because however benign they may be, what you think about fairness/right or wrong is largely inconsequential. At the end of it all, what they decide matter more then whatever grandiose machinations man concocts.


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## MiyaEL (Dec 9, 2018)

The "gods" originally it was a term for someone that had become enlightened having a god mind now any God that you will hear of that has rules and regulations is a man made God there is a all creator that created everything including the beginning but then Man created deities Good and Evil the concept of a fall and sin and Holiness in all those details that go with it. You can find the meaning to life in life you can find the purpose of Man by studying life you can find the goal to achieve by studying life and you can get a glimpse at the next chapter when you leave this world by studying life you just have to know how to look for The Echoes as I called them where it can be similar identical or complete opposite but still related what shows a resemblance in characteristics of the first happening. 

What people fail to realize is every terrible and great thing that was ever done in this world was done by the hands of a man

 Or men but either they were convinced their God wanted them to do it or they were trying to prevent somebody else's god from doing something 

either way at the end of the day it was just human hands and nothing else but we reason ourselves out of it with delusion and say it was a God that did it to take the blame off of us.


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## HG 400 (Dec 9, 2018)

MiyaEL said:


> What people fail to realize is every terrible and great thing that was ever done in this world was done by the hands of a man



A lot of great things in the world were done by women.


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## MiyaEL (Dec 9, 2018)

Dynastia said:


> A lot of great things in the world were done by women.


Omg really? Do you think I was talking about only humans with a penis ? I mean come on I'm talking in the way it was taken back then. And back then man ment all of human kind ... Don't worry I know vaginal efforts were put forth some more fishy then others.


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## HG 400 (Dec 9, 2018)

MiyaEL said:


> talking in the way it was taken back then



It's 2018. Nobody's fooled by clinging to archaic terminology as a dogwhistle for misogyny.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 10, 2018)

MiyaEL said:


> The "gods" originally it was a term for someone that had become enlightened having a god mind now any God that you will hear of that has rules and regulations is a man made God there is a all creator that created everything including the beginning but then Man created deities Good and Evil the concept of a fall and sin and Holiness in all those details that go with it. You can find the meaning to life in life you can find the purpose of Man by studying life you can find the goal to achieve by studying life and you can get a glimpse at the next chapter when you leave this world by studying life you just have to know how to look for The Echoes as I called them where it can be similar identical or complete opposite but still related what shows a resemblance in characteristics of the first happening.
> 
> What people fail to realize is every terrible and great thing that was ever done in this world was done by the hands of a man
> 
> ...


Holy motherfucking shit, look at that. Paragraph breaks!  Did you do that just for me?

That said, you've got to work on more clearly organizing your thoughts.  That first big block is a mess, and no matter how hard I try, it makes no sense at all.

I guess your final conclusion is god isn't real, just something humans invented to blame stuff on? Not a terribly unique take, but probably accurate.  But I don't know what all that shit about "The next chapter" is supposed to mean, or "The Echoes" as you call them..

For reals here, not even trying to troll you, some of your writing looks like that of a person with Schizophrenia.  You're taking grandiose importance on yourself on this matter, "you just have to know how to look for The Echoes as I called them where it can be similar identical or complete opposite but still related what shows a resemblance in characteristics of the first happening."

It sounds like you're searching for, and more worryingly, finding patterns in things which don't exist, and assigning importance to them.  Do you find yourself having repetitive and stressful thoughts like this often? Because, for real, if you are you would be doing yourself a favor by seeing a therapist and possibly getting some medication.

Or, perhaps I'm just reading too much into the hurried words of a teenager or something.  I hope so.


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## >DrunkenDevil555< (Dec 13, 2018)

Religion: It is for the naive, gullible and autistic. Tell a Japanese in 1945 that god existed and he will show you 3 balls and an extra breast. (Maybe this is where the tranny movement started)!


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 14, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> some people just want to die, so they worship nothing?


Some people think they should base what they believe based on what they want to be true.  Some other people would rather know the actual truth and work with it.


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## Iwasamwillbe (Dec 17, 2018)

The way I see it, all the supposed proofs for the existence of God are too weak to actually prove Its existence.

There are many ways to conceive of the universe as without the necessity of even a creator, such as the world being eternal or self-generated.

The multiverse, if it exists, would similarly obviate the need for a creator, as the overwhelming majority of multiverse models require it to be eternal in nature.

Then again, one could imagine a multiverse that is infinite, yet still created by a creator that exists above it.


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## ToroidalBoat (Dec 17, 2018)

Iwasamwillbe said:


> Then again, one could imagine a multiverse that is infinite, yet still created by a creator that exists above it.


You could say an infinite and eternal universe is a reflection of an infinite and eternal God.


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## Tim Buckley (Dec 17, 2018)

We cannot even grasp the definition of a deity, asking if one is real is pointless because of that.

This entire concept is the result of self-awarness, the idea of eternity/death and our egos combined in a generational memetic clusterfuck as old as our species.

The proper way to attempt to answer this question is by putting our ego aside by relizing we'll soon stop exisitng and then admitting we won't be part of anything bigger just because we wanna feel special.

Even if there was either an afterlife, reicarnation or "soul recycling" as some might believe (which by themselves are already a huge stretch), even then this wouldn't be "us" but segmented leftovers of whatehver our former selves were composed of  """""beyond matter""""" since the memories, experiences and character that define us as individuals and our beloved consciousness will rot away when we expire and there's more than enough scientific facts to know this certainly (Just read how memories work and brain funcion overall).

Then after we stop self-inserting ourselves on a divine fan-fiction, we can realize that even multiversal omnipotence is too low of a concept for divinity and still get trapped in an infinite conceptual vortex.

*
tl;dr: We can't even know what is a "god" so it's pointless to think if one exists but we still do like tards because of our ego. *


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 17, 2018)

Tim Buckley said:


> We cannot even grasp the definition of a deity, asking if one is real is pointless because of that.
> *...
> tl;dr: We can't even know what is a "god" so it's pointless to think if one exists but we still do like tards because of our ego. *


Why can't we grasp the definition of a thing we made up?  Of course we can. We made it up! We made up "god" and "diety", they mean a thing that is whatever it needs to be (or not be) to accomplish whatever thing (or prevent it) without standard human limitations.  It's a very flexible thing, so you can't nail it down, but at the same time it's pretty simple.  It's like "magic". By its very nature it's not understandable, but that's because we've defined it as such.  It's not real anyway.

It's kind of like the old riddle.  A person says "I am lying".  Are they lying or telling the truth?  It's impossible to answer, if they're lying then they're telling the truth, if they're telling the truth they're lying.  A deeper look would say the statement is invalid on its own, so of course you can't determine if it's true or false. Garbage in, garbage out.

That's god, God, and any other diety.  By definition they don't make sense, so of course we can't make sense of them. We fully grasp these concepts, they mean whatever we want them to mean. Part of their definition is "Incomprehensible". It's like saying something is a 5 sided square, then declaring it divine because such a thing doesn't make sense.


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## queerape (Dec 17, 2018)

I personally believe in God, because I feel that's what's best for me and my life experience is conducive to there being a God. I don't think this is true for everyone though, and some people can get by ok without it, and I respect that.


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## Tim Buckley (Dec 17, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> That's god, God, and any other diety.  By definition they don't make sense, so of course we can't make sense of them. We fully grasp these concepts, they mean whatever we want them to mean. Part of their definition is "Incomprehensible". It's like saying something is a 5 sided square, then declaring it divine because such a thing doesn't make sense.



The issue with the ontological definition of God is the fact that we use it to define something that by nature is infinitely beyond our potential and capabilties to understand (unlike a 5 sided square in which you could get around with quantum physics), this is interesting in a way of recognizing there is knowledge and facts that we're (and will always be) too limited to understand (worse than goldfish facing nuclear science) but at the same time being unable to properly conceptualize it for the same reason.

While it's genesis seams rather simple (multi-millenia old tribal manifestations on all cultures) due the fact it comes from our insatiable thirst of causal definitions and the human exclusive sense of eternity, it's meaning was created to surpass all possible levels of philosphical or scientific grasp, just out of the eariest less polished human brains.

The difference between true divinity and magic is that one can have a stable set of rules (no matter how crazy they are) for example, all the gods in religion, mythology and fiction are arguable "magical beings" while a true deity cannot be conceptualized or defined in any human way possible, it is the imaginary example of reaching the end of our imaginary potential which is overwhelming and facisnating at the same time.

Could a game depelover be consider a God of a video game they have absolute control over? If God is real could they believe in another more powerful God themselves? Is divinity nothing more than power tiers and thus a dimentional superior being should be considered a deity? What could be so big, that it's composed of units of infinity?

The definition of a true deity is a paradox on itself, and it's humanly impossible to solve, that's why I think it's pointless to even consider the existance of "God" unless you limit it with several arbitrary "magical" conditions for "practical" objectives as people have been doing since ever. But then you're an easily disproved fool.


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## AnOminous (Dec 18, 2018)

Tim Buckley said:


> Could a game depelover be consider a God of a video game they have absolute control over? If God is real could they believe in another more powerful God themselves? Is divinity nothing more than power tiers and thus a dimentional superior being should be considered a deity? What could be so big, that it's composed of units of infinity?



I'd say no, although if the inhabitants of that game were complex enough to be conscious, it might look that way superficially.  The game developer may have created the game world, but he didn't do it from scratch.  He's doing it with a computer he didn't create, probably using tools he didn't create, and even if he had created both of those, he created them both from matter that already existed, bound by laws of physics he didn't create either.

Any true "god" in the sense usually meant when people use that word would start from zero and be the cause before which no other existed.


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## LofaSofa (Dec 18, 2018)

God is real and he lives under my bed.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 18, 2018)

Tim Buckley said:


> The issue with the ontological definition of God is the fact that we use it to define something that by nature is infinitely beyond our potential and capabilties to understand (unlike a 5 sided square in which you could get around with quantum physics), this is interesting in a way of recognizing there is knowledge and facts that we're (and will always be) too limited to understand (worse than goldfish facing nuclear science) but at the same time being unable to properly conceptualize it for the same reason.
> 
> While it's genesis seams rather simple (multi-millenia old tribal manifestations on all cultures) due the fact it comes from our insatiable thirst of causal definitions and the human exclusive sense of eternity, it's meaning was created to surpass all possible levels of philosphical or scientific grasp, just out of the eariest less polished human brains.
> 
> ...


Look, if you don't want to think about it just say you don't want to think about it.  God is a human invention, so by definition he's only as mysterious and incomprehensible as we say he is.

A 5 sided square can't exist, that's the point, it's not a square at that point.  But people don't act like I've uncovered something deeply mystical and incomprehensible when I say "5 sided square".  

God is the 5 sided square because someone's parents got sick of them asking "Why?"  

"Some things just aren't explainable you little shit now go to bed".


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## Vlad the Inhaler (Dec 18, 2018)

Okay, if you don't know what Wide Right, Wide Right 2, and Wide Right 3 are, you're gonna need to look that up before going any further.

Okay, so, what those three things prove is that God exists. There is no possibility that Bobby Bowden could have been fucked that hard the exact same way *three* times except by divine intervention. God exists, and it is not right to be a Seminoles fan.


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## Snuckening (Dec 19, 2018)

If there is a god, he's deliberately set up the world in a way where there's no overt, undeniable proof of existance- in fact, the best scientific evidence points to him probably not existing (or at least to him not needing to exist to explain the universe)

He's god- so he could have easily made a world where his presence was obvious and undeniable. But we don't have that, so logically it's either (1) there's no god. Or (2) there is a god, but he wants us to think he doesn't exist, so either I'm right in claiming god deoesn't exist, or I'm obeying His will by not believing in him.


Spoiler



rule 63 Pascals wager ftw



The standard religious argument about the lack of overt proof- that God wants us to have faith in His existance... for some reason... makes no sense to me. Why would he do that? He wants us to not believe the scientific evidence that _He_ created, which basically says there's no need to assume a god- that the universe can be explained without one?

 The Christian bible says God is all about truth, and that Satan is the deciever. But the evidence says that if the bible is true and the Christian God exists, He _must be _a deciever (He's either lying in the bible saying "young Earth, Earth-centric universe, etc", or He's deceptively set up fake fossils made to seem millions of years old, somehow faked the non-Earth-centric universe we see through telescopes, satellites,etc).

And from what I've seen, the same is true for all major religions (they all say stuff that science later contradicted, and they all claim their god is all about being virtuous and honest), so while I'm still kinda-sorta agnostic about the general concept of god, the specific claims of specific religions make them much easier for me to discount, personally.

(Not to shit on anyone else's beliefs. Thats just my personal thought process. I don't usually talk about this shit because i respect other peoples right to believe what they want- tbh i kinda envy people with real religious faith. And also i don't want to sound like a neckbeard atheist redditor :late

[JFC re-reading the morning after, and DAMN. This is 100% the mostly deeply autistic of all the vast swathes of deeply autistic shit i ever wrote. But tbh this whole thread is pure autism so whatever. Enjoy, faggots.]


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## ArnoldPalmer (Dec 19, 2018)

I haven't had sleep in three days, so this may come off as completely inarticulate.
To make it short and sweet; Personally, I believe there is a god, or godlike intelligence responsible for making the ingredients for this universe fall into place. I don't necessarily think that this 'god' is any one god from any one religion, nor do I see it as an old man living in the clouds who poofed everything into existence in a week, before having a nap. I know that I could easily be wrong, but there are certain elements to what we refer to as corporeal existence, that just do not compute if you look at them with stoic rationality and logic.

Science can only provide the answers to so many questions, and of course, by science, I mean actual science, and not the many variations of what I like to call "Reddit Science", "Pop Science", or "Science as a Religion (Esoteric Fedoraism)". At the end of the day, there are some things that we can simply never know, never quantify or qualify, and many of those things fall under the category of the stuff humanity wants to know the most.

I think, therefore I am, but that's only part of it. _Why_ am I? Why do I know that I am? Why am I, me? I could have been born as a sea cucumber or a moth or some shit, but instead I was born as a human being, the apex predator of intelligence on earth. Even being born a human, why do I experience my existence? For all anyone cares, every human being alive (and by extension, all life) could have just been, for lack of a better phrase, "software-driven". We could have all been on autopilot, and still react to stimuli the same as we do now, but without experiencing anything in the first-person, much like a computer with AI. AI does not feel, have a sense of self, or experience anything, it's just a dynamic means of input and output. If we were nothing more than accidental cosmic happenstance, then why and how would that generate something that can be here in both 'spirit' and mind? We can't know if other forms of life are the way we are. Do animals experience their existence, or do they simply exist as AI would? Do anecephalic humans, like Gwen Hartley, or ebola babies, have a consciousness? Sure, you could just say that consciousness is an illusion of the phaneron that exists to keeps us breeding, or something like that, but that's just as speculative as the point I'm trying to make.

For that reason, I consider the sense of self to be the most important factor in why I believe what I do. Experiencing my own existence doesn't make any fucking sense to me, and I don't know why or how a cosmic accident would be able to do a thing like that, and science has no answers for what consciousness is, and likely never will. It's the final frontier of knowledge.

Shit's fuckin weird. tl;dr god is a real cause existentialism and I should probably stop taking psychedelics one day.


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## AF 802 (Dec 19, 2018)

Religion is a joke.

Reading about all the crazy fundies who'd rather abuse those who can't help it (i.e, the braindead who're kept on life support because it's 'God's will' instead of dying peacefully) is proof enough to me that if there even is, he's a cruel, cruel man. At this point, science on the world's existence sounds better than spiritual beliefs.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 19, 2018)

ArnoldPalmer said:


> I haven't had sleep in three days, so this may come off as completely inarticulate.... I know that I could easily be wrong, but there are certain elements to what we refer to as corporeal existence, that just do not compute if you look at them with stoic rationality and logic...
> 
> I think, therefore I am, but that's only part of it. _Why_ am I? Why do I know that I am? Why am I, me? I could have been born as a sea cucumber or a moth or some shit, but instead I was born as a human being, the apex predator of intelligence on earth. Even being born a human, why do I experience my existence? For all anyone cares, every human being alive (and by extension, all life) could have just been, for lack of a better phrase, "software-driven". We could have all been on autopilot, and still react to stimuli the same as we do now, but without experiencing anything in the first-person, much like a computer with AI. AI does not feel, have a sense of self, or experience anything, it's just a dynamic means of input and output. If we were nothing more than accidental cosmic happenstance, then why and how would that generate something that can be here in both 'spirit' and mind? We can't know if other forms of life are the way we are. Do animals experience their existence, or do they simply exist as AI would? Do anecephalic humans, like Gwen Hartley, or ebola babies, have a consciousness? Sure, you could just say that consciousness is an illusion of the phaneron that exists to keeps us breeding, or something like that, but that's just as speculative as the point I'm trying to make.
> 
> ...



What makes you think "consciousness" is not simply the experience you feel when you do what you do?  Just because you feel that "you" are something more than the meat you're made of, and the decisions feel like you're choosing, rather than performing some calculation, doesn't mean those subjective feelings reflect reality.

Science does have answers for what consciousness is. We can tell from which parts of the brain are active if a person is a awake or not, or even to some degree how they're thinking about something.  True, we don't understand it well enough to actually replicate it, but we know it well enough to do some pretty interesting experiments.  Consciousness is the process that goes on in your brain when you're doing stuff.

So I'd say consciousness is inevitable for humans, regardless of where they came from. Part of being able to solve complicated problems (at least our method) seems to involve "consciousness".   Who knows what being a computer feels like to a computer? Have you ever been a computer?  Our conciousness is a feedback loop of our mind considering its own actions, as part of the larger purpose of solving some problem (Like, what do I eat).
Maybe conciousness is just a separate little piece of hardware, similar to a graphics card on a PC, so our brain can send certain complicated tasks off to be solved while it keeps the heart beating and such. 

My point isn't to say "You're wrong" but rather to say that I'm not so sure that you can say with certainty that conciousness is some unique thing that can't be understood.  It's definitely hard though, as we have to... you know... use our concious mind to think about it.  Whether conciousness is an illusion or not is hard to say, although the fact that people, on a large scale, are pretty predictable tells me it is.


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## Slap47 (Dec 19, 2018)

WorldsSmartestManRonOTool said:


> I am 100% committed, beyond any doubt,  to my personal belief that there is no god, heaven, hell etc.  That being said, I do respect people who have faith.



I don't really see how it can be respected. They believe something for no reason and use that belief to force their morality on everybody. Even the liberal religious people who have no scriptural basis do this. 

As far as I'm concerned, the apathetic religious people enable these people by allowing them more % points on the census to point at to justify their madness.


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## KiwiKritter (Dec 19, 2018)

As a agnostic, my view on it is simply I don’t know. If there is a god, he must work in some pretty strange and ambiguous ways, but perhaps my human brain can’t fathom a gods decisions. I just live my life and try to go by my own morals; AKA don’t be a dick.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 20, 2018)

Are you equally agnostic toward the existence of Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, or Baal? Or just the Judao-Christian god? Or is it more 'some vaguely divine thing, whatever that means'?

I ask because I find the "who am I to say there's no god" people don't usually have the same reservations about whoever the druids worshipped, or the aztecs.  They'll laugh at the idea of those gods, but they aren't willing to dismiss the other god.


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## diophantines (Dec 20, 2018)

God, if it exists, will continue to exist or not exist whether or not I believe in it. My belief changes nothing. Therefore, the concept of God is irrelevant to me.


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## ES 148 (Dec 20, 2018)

ITT euphorics are euphoric and the religious are religious over a question that's been asked for millenia


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## assphault (Dec 20, 2018)

There is a God and she's a WHAMAN


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## Iwasamwillbe (Dec 26, 2018)

Just gonna leave this here

https://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/multiverse-cr.htm


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 27, 2018)

diophantines said:


> God, if it exists, will continue to exist or not exist whether or not I believe in it. My belief changes nothing. Therefore, the concept of God is irrelevant to me.


Except if it's the christian god who very much is affected by whether or not you believe in him.  He might fucking smite you for not believing in him.

I've been not believing in him for a long time, and have yet to be smitten, but you nev


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## White bubblegum (Dec 28, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Except if it's the christian god who very much is affected by whether or not you believe in him.  He might fucking smite you for not believing in him.
> 
> I've been not believing in him for a long time, and have yet to be smitten, but you nev


The smiting comes after death when you go to hell for not believing.

Either give up soveriegnity of yourself to the blind worship of a tyrant or burn for eternity for daring to use the free will and sapience you were given. You can't win.


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## diophantines (Dec 28, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Except if it's the christian god who very much is affected by whether or not you believe in him.  He might fucking smite you for not believing in him.
> 
> I've been not believing in him for a long time, and have yet to be smitten, but you nev


 Who got you: press 1 for candlejack, 2 for g


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Dec 28, 2018)

LofaSofa said:


> God is real and he lives under my bed.



That's just your uncle Steve the rapist


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## KiwiKritter (Jan 1, 2019)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Are you equally agnostic toward the existence of Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, or Baal? Or just the Judao-Christian god? Or is it more 'some vaguely divine thing, whatever that means'?
> 
> I ask because I find the "who am I to say there's no god" people don't usually have the same reservations about whoever the druids worshipped, or the aztecs.  They'll laugh at the idea of those gods, but they aren't willing to dismiss the other god.



Actually when I think about it, I really don’t know about those gods either. I mean maybe Ancient civilizations were on to something, some had better ways of doing things than we do now. Any god could exist, just like any of them can be false.


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## AnOminous (Jan 1, 2019)

I have less trouble buying the Aztec idea of bloodthirsty, malignant gods because it does a better job explaining the world that actually exists.


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## Lysol (Jan 3, 2019)

I don't know if god is real or not, but I do have a tendency to get pretty religious if there's a tornado warning in my area so who am I to say.

I think that if he/she/it does exist though, it'll most likely be one of the outcomes of the old  problem of evil thought experiment.


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jan 8, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> I have less trouble buying the Aztec idea of bloodthirsty, malignant gods because it does a better job explaining the world that actually exists.


I've always figured the Ra worshippers were onto something.  Our life does depend on the sun, the sun is something you can see like every day. That already puts them WAY ahead of many other religions.

Or, the early old testament version of god where he's in competition with various other gods (Baal is mentioned quite a bit).  There, god is less omnipotent all controlling diety and more tantrumming jealous weirdo who is bad at communicating and prone to fits of insane rage he later regrets.  That one fits our world better than the reimagined more detatched new testament god.


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## JustFuckinaDude (Jan 12, 2019)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Or, the early old testament version of god where he's in competition with various other gods (Baal is mentioned quite a bit).  There, god is less omnipotent all controlling diety and more tantrumming jealous weirdo who is bad at communicating and prone to fits of insane rage he later regrets.  That one fits our world better than the reimagined more detatched new testament god.


I read a book about this not too long ago, called "The Unseen Realm" by Michael Heiser. It certainly makes a lot more sense than having a singular deity; Yahweh being the President/CEO/whatever and having a board of advisors/subordinate managers and so on.

I know I'm a bit late to this thread's party, but I believe there's a "supreme" God, probably pretty close to the loving one of the New Testament (unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with other religions to make a statement about them). A bit of powerleveling, I have a daughter, and I like to think my feelings for her are the closest I'll ever get to knowing how God would look at us; sometimes having to let us make our own mistakes, letting us get hurt to learn a lesson, but still loving us and being too eager to help if asked.

On that same track, we probably can't understand why He has us go through things in the same way that my halfling can't understand why I make her go to bed or eat healthy. Makes sense to me, anyway.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jan 14, 2019)

I personally think no. But if there is one, it certainly cannot be like the anthromorphized ones like Yahweh and Allah. I mean, for the most basic of breakdowns...

>Let's say God, specifically the Abrahamic one who people usually mean,  exists.
>He's omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient.
   -An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
   -An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
   -An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence, and knows every way in which those evils could be.
>A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would being all good be compelled by his own nature to prevent the existence of that evil.
>If there exists an omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient God, then no evil exists.
>Evil exists tho.

If there is a God, he (or she) is by necessecity either malevolent, impotent, capable of making irreparable mistakes or some combination of the three. And just like the Hellenic Gods of old who match that description, is there much reason to call a creature like that God outside of fear or trying to win favours from it?


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jan 15, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> I personally think no. But if there is one, it certainly cannot be like the anthromorphized ones like Yahweh and Allah. I mean, for the most basic of breakdowns...
> 
> >Let's say God, specifically the Abrahamic one who people usually mean,  exists.
> >He's omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient.
> ...



Probably not outside of fear, but if he can smite your ass, that's a good enough reason.


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## Godless9 (Jan 17, 2019)

Why would a god exist?


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jan 17, 2019)

Godless9 said:


> Why would a god exist?


Because people post in weird colored fonts on websites, and if there's any justice at all in the universe someone's gotta punish them for that eventually.


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## AnOminous (Jan 17, 2019)

Godless9 said:


> Why would a god exist?



To fuck your mother in the ass.


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## Queen Elizabeth II (Jan 17, 2019)

Godless9 said:


> Why would a god exist?



Why wouldn't a God exist?







All hail Sheela Na Gigs, Goddess of raping men.

(I wish I was joking, Sheela used to divinley appoint kings by trying to foist herself upon them as an old hag who got sexier mid intercourse)


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Jan 18, 2019)

At this point I can't say that I don't believe in a god. I'm not religious anymore, but I still pray every night. At this point I guess I could say that I pray in case there is a god or because it relieves my worries when I do it. Maybe I'm praying to a god, maybe I'm praying to nothing to make myself feel better.


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## Solo Wing Pixy (May 4, 2019)

The way I see it God existing makes more sense to me then our universe coming into being as a result of some extremely random and unlikely event like the big bang.


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## Sprig of Parsley (May 4, 2019)

no lol
god don't real

Right, ok, let's turn this into an effortpost.  I do not believe that God as envisioned by the Abrahamic faiths exists.  There might be some higher power, but he does not fall into the triumvirate of omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence, because I have actually seriously thought about this and the world as it has existed for recorded history doesn't look like it's seen the guiding hand of a loving, knowing and powerful god.  Ever.


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## Basil II (May 13, 2019)

Yes, and he exists inside but is not bound by the "Universe"'s laws, is simulataneously Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omnibelovent, and well beyond any human understanding, part of my faith comes from how wacky stuff gets when you look too deep into Physics, already mentioned before in the thread but stuff like the golden ratio shows some stucture to the universe, not to mention the clusterfuck that is "Conciousness" and how little we know about how it works scientifically. (See also, the Fermi Paradox)

 I'd like to consider myself a Christian though I'm not baptized, very attracted to Eastern Orthodoxy (see my avatar) and it's Mysticism and how it doesn't pretend to have all the answers like Catholicsm and Protestantism,
I used to be a  when I was younger so I'm already familiar with their arguments (anyone who disregards Christianity by taking the Bible literally knows nothing about Theology) tbh I think most people's issues with Christianity comes from dealing with Theologically illiterate Protestants who judge others despite being ignorant themselves.


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## ProgKing of the North (May 13, 2019)

I have no idea if one exists or not but I believe that regardless it doesn’t give a shit about us


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## PT 522 (May 13, 2019)

I expected this thread to be a lot more euphoric than it actually is


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## Sprig of Parsley (May 13, 2019)

Fat Pikachu said:


> I expected this thread to be a lot more euphoric than it actually is


It's possible to crack jokes about the subject and wax opinionated without sounding like a total arrogant dumbshit.  It's also possible to honestly believe that there's not likely to be a God as laid out by any belief system thus far without completely discounting the possibility that you may be wrong.

I may lean heavily agnostic-to-atheist but don't get me wrong I WISH there were some presiding authority of whom I could ask questions like "What exactly the fuck were you thinking when you created this?"


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## Barrister (May 13, 2019)

I feel like it really could go either way. On one hand, the existence of a tangible deity would be difficult to reconcile with our ever-expanding observation and understanding of the universe (not to mention the whole "if God exists why do bad things happen" issue). Then again, if a deity did indeed exist, it would most likely have the capacity to exist outside of the laws of physics, or perhaps even outside of the observable universe entirely. I'd like to think that we as a species will someday know for sure whether a God exists, but for now I'm content with having to wait until I pass on to find out.


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## Sīn the Moon Daddy (May 13, 2019)

None of the strange and occasionally frightening things that I've seen in my life need a god to explain them. I don't know what exactly is going on though.

Does that make me an agnostic? Or maybe I'm just a confused heathen, misremembering school lessons and bible verses.


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## Sprig of Parsley (May 13, 2019)

I've seriously tried reading through Bible verses and deciding what the lessons were and after enough cases of me opining on them and being told "NO YOU'RE WRONG" and going back to them and puzzling it out and being told by another person who apparently knew better than me again "NO YOU'RE WRONG" I just said "fuck this, I've seen this game often enough before, shove your fucking book up your ass".

If there's a God in the Christian fashion and he cares to grant me a revelation I won't mistake for anything else, I welcome him to do so.  He would know exactly how to do it, after all.  His fanclub kind of fucking sucks, though.


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## *extremely mom voice* (May 13, 2019)

Fagatron said:


> (I wish I was joking, Sheela used to divinley appoint kings by trying to foist herself upon them as an old hag who got sexier mid intercourse)



This was known as the the sheela na gig economy

I don't have any reason to believe in God or any gods as such. But as the Euphoric Atheists thread shows, if someone's entire response to religion is "haha god isn't real, fuck to religion and all its works" then there's a good chance that person is a sped. Like congrats on feeling superior to millenia of human history and culture, your descendants definitely aren't going to be laughing at any of your dumbass beliefs.

I think there are things in our culture that fill the emotional space that religion used to occupy. I'm specifically picturing the shrine of funko pop dolls in the background of every picture of a NEET den. And a celibate priesthood is not longer an option for incel atheists in these enlightened times, so instead they practice monastic devotion to a (*Depeche Mode plays*) personal Venus, aka a waifu. Otherkin shit is a spiritual practice, and a lot of furries talk about how they want to be like their fursonas, going so far as to commission votive art to show their devotion and feel closer to their favorite characters.

idk man just






Edit: also, Sheela na Gig is medieval Goatse.


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## Sīn the Moon Daddy (May 13, 2019)

Sprig of Parsley said:


> I've seriously tried reading through Bible verses and deciding what the lessons were and after enough cases of me opining on them and being told "NO YOU'RE WRONG" and going back to them and puzzling it out and being told by another person who apparently knew better than me again "NO YOU'RE WRONG" I just said "fuck this, I've seen this game often enough before, shove your fucking book up your ass".
> 
> If there's a God in the Christian fashion and he cares to grant me a revelation I won't mistake for anything else, I welcome him to do so.  He would know exactly how to do it, after all.  His fanclub kind of fucking sucks, though.


The revelation that I was given included an explanation of the creatures giving it
They were not divine and the entire purpose of disclosing their biological nature was to deny divinity


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## Sinner's Sandwich (May 14, 2019)

Sīn the Moon Daddy said:


> The revelation that I was given included an explanation of the creatures giving it
> They were not divine and the entire purpose of disclosing their biological nature was to deny divinity



LOL sure.


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## ChickenGoesBawk (May 14, 2019)

*Yes. *

I guess you can say that I'm a witness of His works.  That's all I'm going to say on this website.


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## ConfederateIrishman (May 15, 2019)

The fact I exist makes me think that something is going on above my perception, and I take comfort in believing that thing is the Christian God I was raised with.


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## cuddle striker (May 15, 2019)

I don't believe in anything supernatural at all, but I'm superstitious. The fuck, brain?


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## Sprig of Parsley (May 15, 2019)

cuddle striker said:


> I don't believe in anything supernatural at all, but I'm superstitious. The fuck, brain?


Actually mildly triskadekaphobic myself for no reason I can fathom.  I just don't like leaving things at "13".  Also I do the salt thing and basically never open umbrellas until I'm fully clear of whatever building.


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## Incompetent (May 15, 2019)

you would have to be dumb not to think so lmao


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## Antipathy (May 15, 2019)




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## Exigent Circumcisions (May 28, 2019)

Yes, and that's equally terrifying and wondrous.



Sprig of Parsley said:


> "What exactly the fuck were you thinking when you created this?"



Please read Job.


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