# Is pornography good or bad for society?



## queerape (Jul 20, 2019)

Does pornography have a positive, negative, or neutral effect on society? Are some types of porn better or worse for society?


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## Eryngium (Jul 20, 2019)

I'd say bad because of the clear impact on the motivation and drive of an individual and weakening the desire to go out and see some titties, enjoy life, and start a family, however i'll be damned if I ever let you take my 2D titties away.


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## Otis Boi (Jul 20, 2019)

Porn is fine as long as all parties are contesting even for the more edgy shit late a rape fantasy or hardcore BDSM. I think porn is just a way for people to live vicariously through the act of others. For example you might like to watch rape play but you might be a bit afraid to really try it our don't have a partner who like it. I think the only problem when it falls into addiction behavior but if you have a normal job and pay your taxes then who cares if  jerk your dick to  futa-furry porn just don't starting telling any  one you know of your depraved fantasies.


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## BoingoTango (Jul 20, 2019)

I don't think porn in itself is bad  but, the overabundance and ease of access (especially to children) is certainly a problem and a bad thing for society.


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## PsychoNerd054 (Jul 20, 2019)

Just as everyone else on here has said, it ultimately depends on the content. Just as long as it's not anything downright evil, like necrophilia, pedophilia, coprophilia, etc. there's not much for me to complain about. Besides that, I wouldn't really say it's something to be completely indulged in, especially at the level beyond that of outright addiction, to the point you outright tell people what you fap to. 

I will admit though, its acceptance these days is a bit much.


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## BoingoTango (Jul 20, 2019)

PsychoNerd054 said:


> Besides that, I wouldn't really say it's something to be completely indulged in, especially at the level beyond that of outright addiction, to the point you outright tell people what you fap to.


This is the one that gets me the most. How fucking far gone are you dude, that you are just blatantly letting everyone know. Going as far as the having full-on hentai all throughout your house and phone and all kinds of shit. It's so strange. What happened to being ashamed for being a loser fuckup. 

*#makeweebsashamedagain*


Not that the people who do the same thing with real porn are any better. It just seems to be a more common behavior among weebs. Much like with furries.


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## ToroidalBoat (Jul 20, 2019)

I think nations that permit not sick porn tend to have less rape.

fun fact: frozen Iceland is the only Western nation that bans it.


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## Grinrow (Jul 20, 2019)

There should be talks and help for young males who are going through puberty on how porn addiction can be a problem but porn shouldn't be shunned and its pretty normal for people to have a questionable fetish as long as its legal it should be okay


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## PsychoNerd054 (Jul 20, 2019)

BoingoTango said:


> This is the one that gets me the most. How fucking far gone are you dude, that you are just blatantly letting everyone know. Going as far as the having full-on hentai all throughout your house and phone and all kinds of shit. It's so strange. What happened to being ashamed for being a loser fuckup.



It might have to do with it being a part of their identity or some shit, like it's supposed to be a medal to flaunt about to feel special.


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## YourMommasBackstory (Jul 20, 2019)

As an ex-furry porn artist, i would say that porn addiction is helluva drag. You can have the most sick and niche fetish, and you still can get fap material as long as you have money.
Like, yeah, everyone watches porn, but no way you'll have normal life and normal partner if you can only get hard by a pedo furry cock vore.


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## Rice Is Ready (Jul 20, 2019)

Nobody feels good after they bust a nut to porn. It's way more satisfying to masturbate to your imagination.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Jul 20, 2019)

Where the "op is a faggot" option?!

I think it can be good in moderation kinda like booze, but can also be just as mentally damaging if you get addicted to it.


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## Irrational Exuberance (Jul 20, 2019)

What should be noted front-and-center is that the orgasm has the effect of releasing endorphins and oxytocin into the body's system, which acts as a natural pain-reliever.

So basically, be careful when you milk the two udders of that one-eyed cobra, man. I can't think of something clever for the female equivalent, sorry.


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## PsychoNerd054 (Jul 20, 2019)

Irrational Exuberance said:


> I can't think of something clever for the female equivalent, sorry.



How about massaging the pearl of that meaty clam?


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## Clop (Jul 20, 2019)

This.

Don't worry though, there have been a lot of leftie loons demanding studies that prove their point about porn turning you into a rape machine. There's still hope for an even dumber clown world.


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## Slap47 (Jul 20, 2019)

When the British first discovered Gin they had an event called the "Gin Craze". Cheap Gin flooded into London and the people went crazy. They hadn't developed a culture for the stuff so they went wild with it. People went into basements to have a dram and crazy ladies sold gin from their jackets on the street.

Seeing an actual public health crisis, the govt exploited it to the fullest to acquire more power over society and raise money. They passed licensing laws that gave a single corporation control over the industry and collected enormous tax revenues (like 20% of their entire budget).  The following decades saw the govt pass enclosure acts and create police forces to act as the morality police.  Going into the 19th century, they set up Gin Palaces for the rich and gave out gin to soldiers as part of their ration.

My point: Doesn't matter if this is a social ill or not, you should be wary of the govt stepping in as a nanny. They want power and there is a big chance that this social ill is a manufactured moral panic.

Now onto the question at hand, is porn harmful? I don't believe it to be. Its as harmful as anything that produces dopamine - AKA, anything fun. People should try to discipline themselves and whatnot but thats a personal struggle. Some people play too much golf or workout to the detriment of their health (those people that live for their muscles and live outside of gyms in a van). Some people play videogames for 80 hours straight and die of a heart attack.  I'll laugh at furries and people with an even more depraved fetish but it really isn't a problem as long as they aren't actually hurting anybody. Does it inspire bad acts? Studies on stuff like lolicon show the opposite and regardless, we really should be careful with nanny state stuff. We should treat banning stuff as the nuclear option for things that are harmful - actual c porn, zoosadism, cannibalism, snuff etc.


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## Ogg66 (Jul 20, 2019)

Don't watch porn its not my thing but I do not think as a thing it causes harm. Obviously videos of abuse like underage or a rape are harmful but legitimate porn where those involved are in of their own volition even if its some woman whipping someone till they bleed.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 20, 2019)

Y'all niggers need some libido dominandi knowledge in your lives.






It's really interesting. It's about when the Israelian army took over the city Ramallah, and they started broadcasting pornography over every tv channel that they gained control over. Why did they do that? Was it to liberate the Palestinians? Is it because pornography would be good for Palestinian society?


---


Personally I don't think porn should be banned, same as smoking or unhealthy food, but we should make it more absolutely clear how bad frequent pornography use is for you.

Just a couple of questions that I'm curious about in regards to this subject:

1. Do you think it's harmful to use pornography? Why?
2. If it is harmful, do you think there should be constraints on what pornography is available?
3. How many TB of hard drives with figging porn do you have? Is it enough or do you need more?


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## dreamworks face (Jul 20, 2019)

I don't think this transtrender fad would exist without tranny porn.


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## Gustav Schuchardt (Jul 20, 2019)

Porn is bad for you but the government shouldn't be responsible for banning it.


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## Anonymous For This (Jul 20, 2019)

PsychoNerd054 said:


> coprophilia



I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I had to look up what that was.






I'm not sure why the Pope's picture pulls up when you fancy-search "scat fetish" and I'm not quite sure I want to.


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## Foxxo (Jul 20, 2019)

Anonymous For This said:


> I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I had to look up what that was.
> 
> View attachment 850432
> 
> I'm not sure why the Pope's picture pulls up when you fancy-search "scat fetish" and I'm not quite sure I want to.


So I took the plunge and clicked one of those pics, and it turns out that Pope Francis referred to the media's "fake news" & smut obsession as "Corpophagy", the practice of eating "excrement". Basically, if you consume eyeball-driven media, you are eating shit.

He also said that the journos covering the Curia's infighting and financial scandals risked becoming corpophilies, which the journos took to mean "talk shit, eat shit".

And, of course, some right-of-center members of the Church have claimed that Frank's Mafia administration tells priests that disagree with them to "consume excrement" and leave, while others think that the Pope is trying to normalize disgusting fetishes.

So hey, thanks for reminding me of this crudshow.


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## Takodachi (Jul 20, 2019)

Probably bad, but I dont give a shit what it does to me at this point.
I know I wont live past my 30's, so why bother?


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## og_eras (Jul 20, 2019)

I think people that think porn is bad are too deep into internet circles. Most people that watch porn also have sex. Masturbating is NOT sex and I don't know how you can think one thing replaces the other one.

Yeah, if we're talking some chris chan type exceptional guy, of course, porn is detrimental to him, but that's on him for being socially retarded, not on porn. Videogames are also detrimental to him and we are not banning videogames.

For most people, porn is just what you do when you DON'T want to have sex. You want to masturbate 10 minutes and move on with your life. You want a quick one. And I'm telling you, I don't need porn for a quick one. Before porn was easily accesible people masturbated to fucking catalogues and whatever the fuck was on TV. Shit I masturbated to whatever the fuck was on TV. People masturbate on the shower. It's a thing that happens.

Most people don't have a problem with porn and porn isn't detrimental to their lives. The question is flawed on itself because nothing is bad for society because society is fucking huge. Some people will benefit and some will not, and acting as if you know which side will benefit more on an hypothetical situation is dumb. We can debate the merits of, whatever, open borders, anarchy, legalizing prostitution, and that debate is a long list of pros and cons, but this thread is just people projecting too much about not going out and trying to blame porn.

On an unrelated note, I don't think staying home is that bad and "weakening the desire to go out and see some titties, enjoy life and start a family" sounds almost redpilly. Some people are fucking degenerates for staying inside. Some people are fucking degenerates for staying outside. Balance is a thing. Porn does not disrupt that balance.


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## Cheetahman (Jul 20, 2019)

All porn should be available because prohibition has never worked, but the only kinds of porn that should ever be promoted must be ridiculous.


Exploiting children/animals/etc has obvious consequences, but if your fetish is insane and stupid, it should be encouraged as much as possible to get those deviants sedated and kept out of the gene pool.

Also, softcore is the most degenerate kind, because Instagram and Snapchat must be abolished and their CEOs guillotined. In Minecraft.


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## AF 802 (Jul 20, 2019)

Yes. Take the Islamic standard on porn, so we avoid shit like pedophilia being taught as being the same thing as being gay.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 20, 2019)

Cheetahman said:


> All porn should be available because prohibition has never worked, but the only kinds of porn that should ever be promoted must be ridiculous.
> View attachment 850697
> 
> Exploiting children/animals/etc has obvious consequences, but if your fetish is insane and stupid, it should be encouraged as much as possible to get those deviants sedated and kept out of the gene pool.
> ...


There's always one I haven't read before.

Reminds me of Ohio fetish.


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 20, 2019)

Pornography, arguably, is bad for society.  Other things that are bad for society in the same way:
-Alcohol
-Fatty foods
-Tobacco
-Video games
-Television
-Movies
-Books
-Recreational sex

Fortunately, most people understand that human beings are not mindless automata who exist solely to optimize functions, and that behavior should only be checked when it becomes self-destructive to a serious degree.


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## Scarlett Johansson (Jul 21, 2019)

I don't like abusive directors. 

Also I hate OnlyFans.


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## Jeb-sama (Jul 21, 2019)

You're watching two or more people fuck on screen, and you're getting off to it. That's like cuckoldry-lite.

Real men use their cosmic chi energy to summon big tiddy tulpa girlfriends to fuck


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## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Jul 21, 2019)

Pornography has always existed and had a demand in society, even in events here it was prescribed there were always pioneers who would find a work around to limitations put in place. 

With that said, I don't see it as much as a social evil as a potential mental health problem for future generations of men and women and here are the reasons why. 

24/7 availability has been made possible by the advent of smartphones and reliable internet connections. 

Long gone are the yester years of either having to buy your own stuff, or in the case of most teenagers of the era swipe a mag/dvd/vhs or take the time and potential risk of discovery to get in on a computer. In this dark age, it took some prior planning to actually be able to view pornography, and in most cases depending on availability it was near to next impossible for some age groups. 

Now you can get it on your smart phone for free from any number of streaming services, and its essentially as hardcore as you want it. And this is where the problem for me lies. A lot of younger kids are being exposed earlier and earlier to pornography, and with the proliferation of kids being given their own smart phones and other consumer electronics it's going to create a perfect storm of porn addictions. 

The science is in already in terms of pornographic exposure, and it's not good. Long term pornography use creates a negative feedback loop whereby the viewer in order to get a larger hit of brain chemicals must consume harder pornography, and I think this is already pretty evident with the proliferation of ever more extreme forms of pornography become more mainstream.

It also has the detriment of reducing self control, by constantly rewarding the brain, and constantly being able to access stuff. This with the mind a of a developing child, is going to lead to sexual problems and deviancy later on in life, or unrealistic expectations about sex where porn is considered what reality should be and the act of sex is affected by this. 

Along with this you will see an uptick in depression rates as young adults, because the brains are not hard wired to receive constant bombardment of stimuli, and as a result of that it has a dampening effect that effectively can create hard wired dampening throughout. 

It also negatively effects the development of healthy relationships, as teens who should be out there in the world trying to get laid, will instead by at home not socializing and not forming meaningful relationships or learning how to socialize as adults. When they do finally get into relationships, there will be unhealthy expectations, and this in itself will lead again to more social problems. 

tldr; A slice of cake in one sitting once a week is perfectly healthy, eating a whole cake several times a day, week in week out, isn't.


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## Bum Driller (Jul 23, 2019)

If all performers are consenting adults and no-one is permanently hurt then it's all fine and dandy. Much better to allow something that people would do anyway, than to limit their freedom of expression. 

Like Lao Tze said, "Strict government breeds constituents that lie to their rulers more than a loose government". 
And like Nietzsche said, "I have never chosen to not step in to the waters of truth because they would be too dirty, but sometimes because they were too shallow".


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## Overcast (Jul 23, 2019)

Eh, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with porn. If consumed in moderation and people are reminded that it doesn't really represent real life, it's really not a big deal.

That being said, it's kinda worrying how many degenerative stuff there is out there. Stuff revolving around incest or other creepy relationships seem to be in abundance on a lot of porn sites, and the fact there's a market for it worries me.

I bet you there's at least one executive out there who probably lays awake at night wondering how his life turned into one involving profiting over videos of boys wanting to impregnate their moms.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 23, 2019)

scorptatious said:


> That being said, it's kinda worrying how many degenerative stuff there is out there. Stuff revolving around incest



Yeah, about that all that incest porn....

Here is an unpopular opinion post on reddit (that became very popular). Then there is a pornhub spokesperson who said it was an antisemetic conspiracy theory that pornhub was pushing this because the owners are jewish.

The problem is, nobody had mentioned jews up to that point.










http://archive.fo/cJqiU


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## NN 401 (Jul 23, 2019)

That spokesperson makes it seem like there _is_ a conspiracy with that bizarre response.


Other have already articulated my opinion on the porn thing.

I’m worried about the exposure younger people have to all the fucked up things out there.

People keep saying that porn has no effect on sexual relations but I can’t help but hear of how things like anal have become the thing to do regardless if the chick is into it or not.

Apparently, and this is second hand information, even into the late 90s prostitutes and escorts found requests for butt stuff to be relatively rare.


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 23, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> That spokesperson makes it seem like there _is_ a conspiracy with that bizarre response.
> 
> 
> Other have already articulated my opinion on the porn thing.
> ...


I think that trying to determine the sexual habits of the average American by the behaviors of johns with prostitutes is _extremely_ bad information gathering.
Especially given that I suspect that the wage of the average professional dominatrix/dominator has likely gone _down_ over the same window (as S&M has become less taboo to discuss with your SO and, as a result, more people are experimenting with that sort of thing at home rather than having to hire someone to do it to them).


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## NN 401 (Jul 23, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> I think that trying to determine the sexual habits of the average American by the behaviors of johns with prostitutes is _extremely_ bad information gathering.
> Especially given that I suspect that the wage of the average professional dominatrix/dominator has likely gone _down_ over the same window (as S&M has become less taboo to discuss with your SO and, as a result, more people are experimenting with that sort of thing at home rather than having to hire someone to do it to them).




I did mention it was second hand.

Giving the source some benefit of the doubt : their logic was that hookers experience the uncensored sexual male Id.

Point is that butt stuff is a great way to end up with incontinence other horrible things and it’s not as pleasurable for women as it is for men on the receiving... ahem end. 

Yet, here we are.

Idk how true any of the anecdotes in that thread are but it’s hilarious to me to see TERFS and Radfems talk about the good old days and how men were so much nicer then. 

( I do agree that the farther you go back in the decades the simpler tastes were.)

I remember people like these gals behaving like proto- SJWs in the 90s.


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 23, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> ( I do agree that the farther you go back in the decades the simpler tastes were.)


James Joyce had a fart fetish and was into buttfucking his wife.  E.H Lawrence wrote self-insert porn of himself being gang-raped by swarthy Arabs, and it was published as part of a bestselling novel (_Lawrence of Arabia_).  He also wrote one of the most scandalous novels of all time (_Lady Chatterly's Lover).  _  Mozart was sexually attracted to his cousin, and they exchanged obscene letters to each other.  Mozart also wrote an ode to analingus.  One of the degenerate popes was known for throwing a party where he had whores crawl naked on the ground for scattered chestnuts while guests masturbated on them.  Nero would dress in a lion-skin and "savage the genitals" of women in his court- often in public.
Pretending that sexual perversion somehow appeared out of thin air in the last 50 years and that people before then all just had sex with the lights off just like the Film-Authority approved movies showed is shockingly ignorant.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 23, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> James Joyce had a fart fetish and was into buttfucking his wife.  E.H Lawrence wrote self-insert porn of himself being gang-raped by swarthy Arabs, and it was published as part of a bestselling novel (_Lawrence of Arabia_).  He also wrote one of the most scandalous novels of all time (_Lady Chatterly's Lover).  _  Mozart was sexually attracted to his cousin, and they exchanged obscene letters to each other.  Mozart also wrote an ode to analingus.  One of the degenerate popes was known for throwing a party where he had whores crawl naked on the ground for scattered chestnuts while guests masturbated on them.  Nero would dress in a lion-skin and "savage the genitals" of women in his court- often in public.
> Pretending that sexual perversion somehow appeared out of thin air in the last 50 years and that people before then all just had sex with the lights off just like the Film-Authority approved movies showed is shockingly ignorant.



It's nice to know that average internet autists have surpassed Roman emperors, Popes and top of the foodchain artists of yore in levels of depravity.

I wonder what the people on top of the foodchain are into today, but I suspect I don't really want to know.

I have some suspicions, though.


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 23, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> It's nice to know that average internet autists have surpassed Roman emperors, Popes and top of the foodchain artists of yore in levels of depravity.


And, of course, you draw the wrong conclusions.  "Greatness" and sexual perversity aren't linked; it's just that we know more about great people's sex lives because no historian is going to write about the village idiot who tries to bite women on the bum.


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## NN 401 (Jul 23, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> James Joyce had a fart fetish and was into buttfucking his wife.  E.H Lawrence wrote self-insert porn of himself being gang-raped by swarthy Arabs, and it was published as part of a bestselling novel (_Lawrence of Arabia_).  He also wrote one of the most scandalous novels of all time (_Lady Chatterly's Lover).  _  Mozart was sexually attracted to his cousin, and they exchanged obscene letters to each other.  Mozart also wrote an ode to analingus.  One of the degenerate popes was known for throwing a party where he had whores crawl naked on the ground for scattered chestnuts while guests masturbated on them.  Nero would dress in a lion-skin and "savage the genitals" of women in his court- often in public.
> Pretending that sexual perversion somehow appeared out of thin air in the last 50 years and that people before then all just had sex with the lights off just like the Film-Authority approved movies showed is shockingly ignorant.



Please don’t strawman what I wrote.

And you don’t think taking the highly specific sexual proclivities of the degenerate and libertine moneyed elite and extrapolating that to the Joe Schmoes of those times to be a gross generalization???

I’m going to lay out my bias right here for everyone to see:
I’ve seen this sentiment before and in my opinion it usually comes from leftists who believe in moral relativism.
I don’t buy into that train of thought.
Btw:
I’ve read my share of De Sade and Venus in furs.

For clarity’s sake I was referring to the pre- porn on the internet boom when getting access to pornographic material was harder and niche subject matter even more so.

Being something of an afficianado of Bettie Paige, and Tempest Storm’s pinups and media my conclusions were drawn from that source material.
There is a huge difference in what was considered risqué and pornographic then versus our standards now.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 23, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> And, of course, you draw the wrong conclusions.  "Greatness" and sexual perversity aren't linked; it's just that we know more about great people's sex lives because no historian is going to write about the village idiot who tries to bite women on the bum.



You make a good point about historiography, but it isn't greatness that I'm referring to, but having the means to indulge in perversity. In that indulging, there is room to develop that perversity into more elaborateness.

And with the internet, everyone has the means to indulge in perversity, and reinforce the pathways in their brain to both reward seeking it out and plenty of supply to get ever deeper into it.


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 23, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> Please don’t strawman what I wrote.
> 
> And you don’t think taking the highly specific sexual proclivities of the degenerate and libertine moneyed elite and extrapolating that to the Joe Schmoes of those times to be a gross generalization???
> 
> ...


I wouldn't call myself a leftist, and I'm not a moral relativist either.  Maybe your issue is one of phrasing.  Perhaps you would understand my position more if I phrased it as follows: Mankind is inherently debased and sinful and, without the guiding hand of Christ, will indulge in the most extreme and grotesque perversions willingly and joyfully, as our world is that of Satan and so is our hearts.

Despite this, I still don't believe that pornography is any better or worse than, say, coveting your neighbor's new car.  Masturbation is venal, not mortal.


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## Recoil (Jul 23, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> when the Israelian army took over the city Ramallah, and they started broadcasting pornography over every tv channel that they gained control over. Why did they do that?


Ok, ok. It's obviously to destabilize islam, which is the basis of the opposition's morale. Fun story, do you know what British officers would do to Muslims when they caught their people and wanted info back in colonial days? They'd tie the poor fucker up and slaughter a pig in front of him. Then they'd gut the pig. Then they'd begin sewing up their Muslim captive _inside the corpse of the dead pig_ Skywalker style.
Then they'd start asking questions.
Very effective technique. No wonder they feel so much colonial guilt nowadays, they were absolute mad lads back in the day.
Turns out that attacking people through belief structure like this is great at getting, well... maybe not hearts, but minds. Definitely gets minds. Why mention this? Well, let's say you're in this situation but you're not a muzzie. You get sewed up in a pig. Are you gonna spill the beans all of a sudden? No, because your fighting spirit is not tied up in some hopelessly outdated revealed text taken literally. Not that it's great shakes being sewed up in a pig, mind you - but because you're not a superstitious exceptional individual from the previous millennium and as such, a piece of media cannot harm you or make you do something you don't want to.

I'm not an apologist, I'm just pointing something out. If porn can destabilize your social engine, you have a shit social engine.
Your mind is yours. Teach your children that.
Evolve to be stronger. The species will have to at some point.


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## NN 401 (Jul 23, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> I wouldn't call myself a leftist, and I'm not a moral relativist either.  Maybe your issue is one of phrasing.  Perhaps you would understand my position more if I phrased it as follows: Mankind is inherently debased and sinful and, without the guiding hand of Christ, will indulge in the most extreme and grotesque perversions willingly and joyfully, as our world is that of Satan and so is our hearts.
> 
> Despite this, I still don't believe that pornography is any better or worse than, say, coveting your neighbor's new car.  Masturbation is venal, not mortal.




Listen,
I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment of human nature and religion’s role in mitigating our baser instincts.

Being of the eastern persuasion I hazard that you and I would come to similar conclusions about humanity’s moral compass just from different angles.

And I’m not calling you a leftist, I apologize for that.

Let me rephrase that I misread your initial critique as indicating that no culture before or after us has done anything better.

Left leaning types often pick out the worst examples of any society and culture in order to degrade and dismiss whatever good they may have possessed.
Mention the greatest generation and their accomplishments and the average lefty will reeeee about homophobia, civil rights*, women in kitchens and a laundry list of other things.

I’ve seen a fellow millennial dress her boomer mother down in front of me for merely suggesting that older people had a stronger sense of commitment to each other than people do now.
The thrust of her critique being that the nuclear family doesn’t have inherent advantages over other kinds of family arrangements (*hint: it does which is why even hunter gatherers feature it).


*(And yes I’m aware that the 1950s WW2 generation were responsible for the Civil Rights.)


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 23, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> Listen,
> I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment of human nature and religion’s role in mitigating our baser instincts.
> 
> Being of the eastern persuasion I hazard that you and I would come to similar conclusions about humanity’s moral compass just from different angles.
> ...


1. And on the other hand, right-leaning types often gloss over or engage in apologia for aspects of the past which disrupt their idealized version of it.
2. Religion's role?  You talk about it as if it weren't true.  That wasn't an idle comparison: I am a devout Christian.  I honestly believe both that the world would be a much better place if everyone lived by God's command, and that if we all lived by God's command the result would not even remotely resemble any past mode of civilization.  I have a great distaste for civilization in general; society and culture inevitably becomes debased, due to the fallen nature of man.  It is in the individual, or in small groups, that you can see God's love shining through the effluvia of this world of vice.  Every civilization, including all those currently extant, fall short of the mark; but in many important aspects, I would say that the modern world is closer than most civilizations of the past.  At least today we struggle less with "Love your neighbor as yourself", although we all still struggle with "Love the Lord with all your heart."


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## Strine (Jul 23, 2019)

Pornography has existed whenever and wherever there was a medium for it, irrespective of whether the society at the time/place condemned it or not. Moral judgements about it are, in a way, pointless, since not only will it not go away, but driving it underground will both enhance its allure and open it up to truly immoral behaviour. 

I personally approve of porn wholesale, except for actual cases of exploitation and abuse (as opposed to hysterical rhetoric of the Dworkin-MacKinnon kind). Art is full of porn, of women and men - the most famous sculpture in the world, the_David _of Michelangelo, is literally softcore gay porn (of a teenager, no less) but has so much power of image that it's simply not regarded as such. Porn is simply an idealised subject for stimulation, in arguably the same way as a painting is - and like I said, porn is inseparable from a lot of great art. Everybody has erotic desires, and most porn condemnation seems to be a puritanical attempt to police other people's thoughts. Porn may have moral ambiguity, but what I regard as truly immoral is people trying to suppress or ban it - to control the experience of other, adult, people, who may feel the opposite way - because they themselves have a problem with it. 

Sexuality is an immutable part of the human experience, and can't be controlled by societies - only directed by them, into a decorum that is cast off as soon as two horny people are alone together anyway, because animal sex drive is much older and stronger than human social impulse. Basically, porn isn't going away, no matter its legality; so I think it should be produced in legitimacy with legal protections.


----------



## NN 401 (Jul 24, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> 1. And on the other hand, right-leaning types often gloss over or engage in apologia for aspects of the past which disrupt their idealized version of it.
> 2. Religion's role?  You talk about it as if it weren't true.  That wasn't an idle comparison: I am a devout Christian.  I honestly believe both that the world would be a much better place if everyone lived by God's command, and that if we all lived by God's command the result would not even remotely resemble any past mode of civilization.  I have a great distaste for civilization in general; society and culture inevitably becomes debased, due to the fallen nature of man.  It is in the individual, or in small groups, that you can see God's love shining through the effluvia of this world of vice.  Every civilization, including all those currently extant, fall short of the mark; but in many important aspects, I would say that the modern world is closer than most civilizations of the past.  At least today we struggle less with "Love your neighbor as yourself", although we all still struggle with "Love the Lord with all your heart."



If I’m being cagey it’s because I didn’t know _your_ beliefs and didn’t want to derail the thread into one giant screech fest about “lol you believe in the Sky Daddy, lolololol.”

I had no idea you _weren’t _a fedora tipper.

Do you get my drift?

I believe in cultural degradation for sure. I don’t see how anyone cannot with the bones of great civilizations littered through out history for us to find.
Certain individuals posit that it’s an inherent bias in our learning institutions towards progress; that the whole of humanity is a straight arrow going up. To suggest a cyclical history at all is to question the concept of progress. Therefore, everyone before us has to be stupid.

The current zeitgeist has me appalled by its naked sadism and narcissism. I’m convinced that the push for moral relativism by the left and the watering down of religion was done in order to deprive us of certain concepts.

Specifically, the ability to name a thing as right or wrong. Instead we use substitutes  like “unethical”, and “boundaries.” Words that have less of sting per se on someone’s ego.
Taking away a person’s ability to conceptualize right and wrong, to verbalize it even, makes it easier to exploit them and it begins, IMO, with an attack (not critique) on religion.

It increasingly feels like society is being engineered by sociopaths to create victims and enablers.


----------



## Bum Driller (Jul 24, 2019)

I would add to the discussion, that while I answered to the poll that porn is neutral for the society at large, in essence I believe that it's more beneficial than detrimental to the human spiritual growth as an individual. If we don't confront and engage with all of our impulses and fantasies and thus learn to ride with them and steer where we want them to go, they will forever haunt us in the dark recesses of our minds. Trying to shut them out doesn't make them go away, it just empowers them and makes men more viable to be possessed by them and thus carry them out like mindless animals. 

Demons lurk in every heart, and if we don't aspire to become their masters and shapers, we will eternally be their henchmen.


----------



## UnclePhil (Jul 24, 2019)

Eh, all things in moderation. Using it every now and again for a ten minute wank before bed isn't going to summon an eldritch Old One. Having it lord over your life during every moment of your free alone time might not destroy the world either, but it's not good for you. Especially if you have a SO in the house, or, you know, kids you're supposed to be raising.

There is a problem with its rampant availability these days, particularly when it comes to children having private wi-fi access on every conceivable electronic tablet, phone, console, and thermos. It gets worse with kids using streaming services essentially as their sex ed because their parents are worthless. Porn isn't supposed to be sex ed. It's a glamour show for adults. Combined with the over-saturation of it and the normalization of outlying sexual practices (some of which we now call "genders"), that upsets the aforementioned balance.

Back in my day, we were just coming out of the era where leprechauns left video tapes in the woods. Getting porn was still an adventure, though, and a rare occasion. I think that helped us keep it in check. Like doing a line every now and then instead of a coke binge every weeknight.


----------



## A Wild Weeb (Jul 24, 2019)

I feel like porn should be a temeporary replacement for sex. If you start fapping for the sake of fapping it could be a possible issue.


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## nice (Jul 24, 2019)

Porn is toxic, harmful, and bad for you, and that's why I volunteer to take one for the team. Send me all your porn instead.


----------



## Ihavetinyweewee (Jul 24, 2019)

I would say porn is both good and bad.  Its good because it gives(especially the sexual frustrated)some sort of sexual outlet.

They have done studies with rape statistics, countries with lax pronography laws: had considerly fewer sexual crimes.

It 's bad because it can give people an unhealthy view of sex/sexuality.  Sex, I think, is supposed to be a fun way to express human bonding.  Not just a series of sexual fetishes for carnal pleasure.

I think, like alchohol, if pornography is consumed responsibly:  I think its perfectly fine.  If its consumed obsessivley:  It can create weird views of sex, people, and relationships.  It can lead a person to become even more lonely/isolated....

As far as the limits, in the realm of thought, written or illustration;  I think anything goes.  The most fucked up shit you can think of

It becomes a criminal and evil act when REAL people get involved...

So if pedos want to have their fucked up fantasies in artwork or writing: I guess its ok.  Its gross and disgusting, but no child is harmed.

If it starts involving real kids: no fucking way....


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jul 24, 2019)

No real opinion about pornography but everyone knows masturbation causes blindness and hairy palms.


----------



## NN 401 (Jul 24, 2019)

Bum Driller said:


> I would add to the discussion, that while I answered to the poll that porn is neutral for the society at large, in essence I believe that it's more beneficial than detrimental to the human spiritual growth as an individual. If we don't confront and engage with all of our impulses and fantasies and thus learn to ride with them and steer where we want them to go, they will forever haunt us in the dark recesses of our minds. Trying to shut them out doesn't make them go away, it just empowers them and makes men more viable to be possessed by them and thus carry them out like mindless animals.
> 
> Demons lurk in every heart, and if we don't aspire to become their masters and shapers, we will eternally be their henchmen.



That’s assuming our desires and needs aren’t being engineered and manipulated.

If images didn’t have any power to influence, as opposed to just entertain, marketing wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry.

That’s the trick, to get you to believe that your consent and decisions weren’t engineered.


----------



## UnclePhil (Jul 24, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> Mozart also wrote an ode to analingus.



Holy shit.

Today I learned Mozart of all people wrote the classical era equivalent of Lick My Love Pump.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Jul 24, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> That’s assuming our desires and needs aren’t being engineered and manipulated.
> 
> If images didn’t have any power to influence, as opposed to just entertain, marketing wouldn’t be a billion dollar industry.
> 
> That’s the trick, to get you to believe that your consent and decisions weren’t engineered.


If marketing was such a science we wouldn't have seen Hillary Clinton flop in 2016.

Marketing is a billion dollar industry because it's based on selling shitty ideas to dumb rich people who want to be more rich.  You know another billion dollar industry? Homeopathic medicine. Proven by science (or even just some basic critical thinking) NOT to work.


----------



## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Jul 24, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> Yeah, about that all that incest porn....
> 
> Here is an unpopular opinion post on reddit (that became very popular). Then there is a pornhub spokesperson who said it was an antisemetic conspiracy theory that pornhub was pushing this because the owners are jewish.
> 
> ...



There's always been a connection to Jewish pornographers and the attack on the traditional WASPs who are the biggest consumers of pornography. Again a weird aspect of general attack on cultural institutions by cultural marxism. I don't think it's expressly Jewish rather than just people profit of the industry.

As for the incest inserts, this has been a recent trend that is being pushed by Porn Geek, and it's because of the algorithms they have to observe behavior.

They put out a salacious implied incest vid, the first five minutes is that, and then it's generic porn. But people are clicking on it, (Midwest America is the biggest incest vid viewer market IRCC.)

Porn is a business and a positive feedback loop, like Youtube. They will push content and suggestions that they know people will watch again and again because of market share, eyeballs, and literal dominance of the industry. 



Senior Lexmechanic said:


> James Joyce had a fart fetish and was into buttfucking his wife.  E.H Lawrence wrote self-insert porn of himself being gang-raped by swarthy Arabs, and it was published as part of a bestselling novel (_Lawrence of Arabia_).  He also wrote one of the most scandalous novels of all time (_Lady Chatterly's Lover).  _  Mozart was sexually attracted to his cousin, and they exchanged obscene letters to each other.  Mozart also wrote an ode to analingus.  One of the degenerate popes was known for throwing a party where he had whores crawl naked on the ground for scattered chestnuts while guests masturbated on them.  Nero would dress in a lion-skin and "savage the genitals" of women in his court- often in public.
> Pretending that sexual perversion somehow appeared out of thin air in the last 50 years and that people before then all just had sex with the lights off just like the Film-Authority approved movies showed is shockingly ignorant.



You might want to check your sources, your thinking D.H. Lawrence, and T.E Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia.) Neither are the same person.

Alternatively, if you look up the works of St. Thomas Aquinas (the animal guy) He wrote some of the first treatise of psychological observation of sexual perversions in humans as a manual to be used for guidance by the Catholic lay preachers in order to prevent those perversions. The Catholic church buried the documents inside of one of the Vaticans secret libraries, because they didn't want to believe the observations were true. (It's slowly getting released over time. Aquinas was a really good doctor, and even theorized how sexual dysfunctions occur.) 

Also if you look up the work of Alfred Kinsey, his studies of sexuality in the 1940's and 1950's were ground breaking for the time, but not widely shared outside of the psychology community because it confirmed that a) humans are sexual beings b) They will find a myriad of ways to express that sexuality c) perversions like transgenderism, bi-sexuality, homosexuality, and cross dressing were more common than initial thought. (homosexuality and bi-sexuality were considered taboo for that period.)


----------



## KimCoppolaAficionado (Jul 24, 2019)

Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> You might want to check your sources, your thinking D.H. Lawrence, and T.E Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia.) Neither are the same person.
> 
> Alternatively, if you look up the works of St. Thomas Aquinas (the animal guy) He wrote some of the first treatise of psychological observation of sexual perversions in humans as a manual to be used for guidance by the Catholic lay preachers in order to prevent those perversions. The Catholic church buried the documents inside of one of the Vaticans secret libraries, because they want to believe the observations were true.
> 
> Also if you look up the work of Alfred Kinsey, his studies of sexuality in the 1940's and 1950's were ground breaking for the time, but not widely shared outside of the psychology community because it confirmed that a) humans are sexual beings b) They will find a myriad of ways to express that sexuality c) perversions like transgenderism, bi-sexuality, homosexuality, and cross dressing were more common than initial thought. (homosexuality and bi-sexuality were considered taboo for that period.)


Thank you for the fact-check; the names are similar.  Also, thank you for the additional supporting documents!


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## NN 401 (Jul 24, 2019)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> If marketing was such a science we wouldn't have seen Hillary Clinton flop in 2016.
> 
> Marketing is a billion dollar industry because it's based on selling shitty ideas to dumb rich people who want to be more rich.  You know another billion dollar industry? Homeopathic medicine. Proven by science (or even just some basic critical thinking) NOT to work.




And?

Nothing you said disproves what I said.
Homeopathic medicine is a billion dollar industry. As is fair trade and organic because despite being full of bullshit.

That’s due to marketing.

And what is marketing but the leveraging of specific kinds of imagery and values with various kinds of products.


Freud to Anna Freud to Edward Bernays to corporate propaganda to public relations.

And I would point out to the devout Christian who rated me autistic that the image and story of the Christ figure is one of the most powerful mimetic narratives to have ever existed.

If people hadn’t wanted to emulate Jesus and embody his values we’d be living in a far different world. I mean, do you honestly believe that there aren’t people leveraging the worst impulses of humanity in order to make a buck.


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## MrTickles (Jul 24, 2019)

It's like sugar or potassium. Too much is bad. Moderate amounts won't harm.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 25, 2019)

Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> Also if you look up the work of Alfred Kinsey, his studies of sexuality in the 1940's and 1950's were ground breaking for the time, but not widely shared outside of the psychology community because it confirmed that a) humans are sexual beings b) They will find a myriad of ways to express that sexuality c) perversions like transgenderism, bi-sexuality, homosexuality, and cross dressing were more common than initial thought. (homosexuality and bi-sexuality were considered taboo for that period.)



It was also very shoddy research, recording prostitutes living with pimps as "married", using prison population to represent "less than college educated" stats to claim that 10-37% of men engage in homosexual activity.

Being held down against your will and jerked off until orgasm counts as homosexual activity, in his stats.

In general he took poor samples which makes it impossible to clean up his data and extract much useful.

He also only used volunteers for his data. A later Stanford study showed that volunteers for sex studies are about 3 times more promiscuous than more random samples, for example.

He oversampled prison population, prostitutes, sexual abuse victims and volunteered homosexuals and then passed that data of as a representative sample of americans. Of course people were shocked by the data, it was false.

A lot of false modern myths about sexuality come from Kinsey's poor research, such as the idea that women peak sexually in their 30s or that 10-37% of men are gay (recents samples show it's about 2%).

One of his myths that didn't stick is that not a single woman was ever harmed by rape.

Kinsey also paid fathers to rape their children and record orgasm times. Here is an interview with such a victim.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/kinsey-victim-speaks-out-my-father-was-paid-to-rape-me

Besides his poor data, he was obsessed with Aleistar Crowley and funded by the Rockefellers. The Kinsey institute is funded by Rockefellers up to this day. Aleistar Crowley taught among other things that magic derived from sodomizing young boys.


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## ApatheticViewer (Jul 26, 2019)

There's nothing wrong with it but for the glory of the state sexual desire must be state controlled.


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## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Jul 26, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> It was also very shoddy research, recording prostitutes living with pimps as "married", using prison population to represent "less than college educated" stats to claim that 10-37% of men engage in homosexual activity.
> 
> Being held down against your will and jerked off until orgasm counts as homosexual activity, in his stats.
> 
> ...



Fair points, I always found the works of Havelock Ellis more interesting and in-depth than Kinsey, the difference is, is that Kinsey is more in the American domain of sexual psychology. Ellis is more in depth on the general subject though, as well as dysfunctions, but with eight volumes IRCC, but is not as celebrated as individuals like Kinsey because of his open support for eugenics, and the fact most of his academic works preceded Kinsey's.

I didn't know Kinsey fudged his info so badly. Historically he had admitted to using only very small samples numbers of people, per the actual demographics of the US. And used phone interviews to gain a basis for the research so it was known to be skewed because it wasn't a one on one in person interviews and they used the test subjects for repeated sampling, as well as also not being able to get anonymous people to admit to things on the phone and therefore being under represented in some fetishes. (bestiality, transvestites, homosexuality, etc.)

Probably why he needed to cook the numbers in some place.

It's horrifying he paid people to rape their children.  Why would anyone ever do that, even for pedantic research information. 

Weird fact though, he was well known for his party trick of being able to stick a whole pencil inside his urethra. Sure it made for some interesting dinner conversation.


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## JosephStalin (Jul 26, 2019)

Bum Driller said:


> If all performers are consenting adults and no-one is permanently hurt then it's all fine and dandy. Much better to allow something that people would do anyway, than to limit their freedom of expression.
> 
> Like Lao Tze said, "Strict government breeds constituents that lie to their rulers more than a loose government".
> And like Nietzsche said, "I have never chosen to not step in to the waters of truth because they would be too dirty, but sometimes because they were too shallow".



This, pretty much.   Agree all performers need to be consenting adults and nobody is permanently injured.  Far as the latter goes, the Kink guidelines for the scenes they produce or purchase is rather comprehensive for all concerned, cast and crew.  Allows the viewer of such scenes to feel comfortable that the work was done professionally, without permanent injury to any member of the cast.  Have posted guidelines before.  Just found a site with Kink's guidelines and checklists for performers.






						Kink Open Resources
					

Kink.com is the original home of bondage, BDSM, and hardcore fetish porn online. Real, kinky, sex positive porn for all genders & sexual preferences.




					www.kink.com
				




There's been porn as long as there have been people capable of drawing pictures or writing words.  It's just that advances in communications and technology allow 24/7/365 access to porn.  No need any more to send off for books/tapes in brown paper wrappers.   So we're going to have porn, no matter what.



BlastDoors41 said:


> That spokesperson makes it seem like there _is_ a conspiracy with that bizarre response.
> 
> 
> Other have already articulated my opinion on the porn thing.
> ...



Far as porn goes, like a lot of things, there's nothing new under the sun.  We just have better materials and technology to produce whatever we write, draw, take pictures of, make videos of, etc.  But I agree that it's a shame younger people have access to so much porn, and all different kinds of porn, some definitely not good.


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## The Saltening (Jul 26, 2019)

I am torn. On one hand, I can't say it should be banned outright because I think that would infringe on freedom, but the impact on society has been terrible. Like many things, it is addictive and can destroy your life, but since I am not advocating for cigarettes and alcohol to be banned, I won't advocate for a porn ban.

I might believe it is wrong, but I don't have the right to force people to agree with me. As porn progresses with weirder and weirder fetishes, and as more and more people fuck up their lives over porn addiction, I think more people will start rejecting it. 

More and more people these days just use each other for pleasure, rampant sex with no commitment. This has made finding a nice "innocent" girl much harder than I think it used to be. I personally want to get married young and have lots of kids. Just like my parents did. But with the way things are looking, I am not sure that is even possible these days, and I personally believe porn has played a role in it.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 27, 2019)

Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> It's horrifying he paid people to rape their children.  Why would anyone ever do that, even for pedantic research information.



Yeah. He catalogued the responses that kids gave under 6 types. Fainting, convulsing, screaming, writhing in pain, striking.... I forget the last type. Despite this, the conclusion was that the kids definitely enjoyed it.

Wouldn't have known about it without Judith Reisman.

She also said that playboy had an extensive history of child pornography. They sued her for slander and they lost, as there were in the end _989 _ instances of sexual pictures with children and generally a depiction of children benignly affected or unharmed by sexual activity with adults.


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## Hambubger (Jul 27, 2019)

Whether it's good or bad its has taking a life by its own because porn follows right behind innovations


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## Hellbound Hellhound (Jul 27, 2019)

I think it is potentially both good and bad. On a positive level, I would argue that it encourages us to be more open about sex, and offers a safe outlet to those who's frustrations might otherwise pose a nuisance or danger to society. On a negative level, however, it arguably distills sex down to it's most lurid qualities, and possibly conditions us to dehumanize potential sexual partners as a result.

There is also the tricky issue of whether watching pornography ameliorates unhealthy fixations or exacerbates them, and the correct answer to this question might be both, depending upon how much pornography the person is consuming, what type of pornography it is, and what kind of person they are, etc.

Overall, I would say that it is probably a good thing. Barring some concerns I have about the ease at which children can access adult content nowadays, I think that overall, a society where attitudes towards sexuality are open, tolerant, and creative, is preferable to a society where attitudes are closed, dull, and repressed.


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## Slap47 (Jul 27, 2019)

Surf and TERF said:


> A friend’s ex bf has no idea how to pleasure a woman because he just tries to act out the porn he watches, which glosses over consent and tries to make a woman’s discomfort sexy. (Both people are supposed to feel aroused before you get started. Don’t act like a jackhammer. She’s not ‘supposed’ to feel pain. Don’t assume that you know what she wants more than she does just because you’ve watched more porn.)
> 
> I think this is a problem. I wouldn’t argue for a blanket ban on porn, but I do think the viewers (especially the naive ones) need to be given some kind of distinction between what is and isn’t realistic sex. Communication is treated like a taboo in a lot of these videos when it’s actually a fundamental thing.



Dunno, didn't this mindset exist before pornography? 

It sure as hell exists in places like the Islamic world where pornography is punishable via amputation.


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 27, 2019)

Sex in relationships is MUCH different than porn and weak men who need a fix get addicted.  Its bad all round.


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## queerape (Jul 28, 2019)

DocHoliday1977 said:


> Sex in relationships is MUCH different than porn and weak men who need a fix get addicted.  Its bad all round.


The inexperienced, low self esteem men are the ones that tend to get addicted since they are often too shy to actually talk to women, then the porn gets them unhealthy expectations, worsening their lack of success with women which they turn to more porn to alleiviate, it becomes positive feedback.


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

queerape said:


> The inexperienced, low self esteem men are the ones that tend to get addicted since they are often too shy to actually talk to women, then the porn gets them unhealthy expectations, worsening their lack of success with women which they turn to more porn to alleiviate, it becomes positive feedback.




There's a connection with masturbatory sexual impulses coinciding with low cognitive and low analytical mental functioning.  Its the same with extreme fetish and deviance, the mental activity and acuity degenerates.

With a wife and a partner comes an emotional bond with the wife attempting to provide emotional support for the husband not just only sexual desires and this is why men live longer. The woman 'cares' about the husband's health.
Flip side too with husband to wife. They are a team.

Its really sad to see men incapable of communicating with the opposite sex.


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## Dom Cruise (Jul 28, 2019)

DocHoliday1977 said:


> Its really sad to see men incapable of communicating with the opposite sex.



I struggle with that I confess.


As for porn, if I want to watch porn as in a video of people fucking, I like the stuff that presents real couples doing it, as opposed to paid performers, basically I think the more "reality" there is in porn the healthier it is to consume, the more it presents real passion, the more you see women having real orgasms with no "acting" involved and so on, the better is as opposed to carefully constructed artifice.

I also personally simply find that sexier and more of a turn on.

EDIT: For example I have this.... documentary from 2004 called "Orgasm: The Faces of Ecstasy" which is simply close ups of people's faces as they have real orgasms.

There's this one segment of this middle aged lady, not unattractive but definitely older, far from "porn star" material and it just shows her as her husband does... something to her (not sure what exactly, since it's not shown) and she just totally loses it as she cums.

_That _is way sexier to me than any number of "Brazzers" or whatever type crap.


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

Dom Cruise said:


> I struggle with that I confess.
> 
> 
> As for porn, if I want to watch porn as in a video of people fucking, I like the stuff that presents real couples doing it, as opposed to paid performers, basically I think the more "reality" there is in porn the healthier it is to consume, the more it presents real passion, the more you see women having real orgasms with no "acting" involved and so on, the better is as opposed to carefully constructed artifice.
> ...




Well its important to be trustworthy to a woman and actually give a damn about satisfying her, not just getting your own satisfaction. 

Women orgasm easier than men so really there's no excuse for a gal faking it.


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 28, 2019)

DocHoliday1977 said:


> Women orgasm easier than men


----------



## Sīn the Moon Daddy (Jul 28, 2019)

DocHoliday1977 said:


> Lord help, read a book.
> 
> *side note
> 
> ...



Lewd


----------



## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

Sīn the Moon Daddy said:


> Lewd




Truth. But there’s always tomorrow.

Here’s a man in love with his wife and has a family and is normal.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Jul 28, 2019)

DocHoliday1977 said:


> Lord help, read a book.
> 
> *side note
> 
> ...



If you're trans, it still counts as male.


----------



## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> If you're trans, it still counts as male.








I’m a woman born with female parts.


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## BW 182 (Jul 28, 2019)

Dom Cruise said:


> I struggle with that I confess.
> 
> 
> As for porn, if I want to watch porn as in a video of people fucking, I like the stuff that presents real couples doing it, as opposed to paid performers, basically I think the more "reality" there is in porn the healthier it is to consume, the more it presents real passion, the more you see women having real orgasms with no "acting" involved and so on, the better is as opposed to carefully constructed artifice.
> ...


In the same boat, and I think the bridge between the sexes and communication is growing larger.

I feel like the Brazzers type of stuff is made to be easier to jack off to, while the amateur stuff is better for analyzing. With amateur, it's more intimate, arousing, and interesting, but it's long. Brazzers type of stuff is 4K HD VR trailers where you can quickly get your nut and go (unless you want the whole film)


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## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Jul 28, 2019)

If you think availability and addiction are bad now, just wait until virtual reality becomes more mainstream and the technology becomes more advanced. 

You are going to see a massive increase in sexual dysfunction by mere virtue of the fact that once people are able to live out their fantasies in virtual reality it's going to reinforce those fetishes and they will become the normal. 

It won't just be a bunch of fur fags screwing each other on second life at that point, and God knows someone will make stuff about underage children, loli's, etc. 

We've literally as a society opened up pandora's box, and it's going to have some major repercussions, in the same way that TV and then PC's have. (Different subject, but food availability, sedentary lifestyles, and increasing social isolation are causing massive issues with weight and mental health problems.)


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## Star Stuff (Jul 28, 2019)

About as bad as alcohol and I don't think we should ban either. The weird focus on it really hinges on moralfagging as you have to ignore all the actual, literal deaths directly tied to other vices on the same level. Naturally, I'm not so dense as to say we can only work on one thing at a time, but I struggle with the ardent belief that porn is evil when there's so much more we refuse to address.

Truly and really: Anything can be evil if our standard is addiction. There are people addicted to stamp collecting of all things. There is a point where personal responsibility should take the wheel and porn, in my opinion, is one of those points. Regardless of it's effects on this nebulous "society". The question itself is flawed, if you ask me, so no real answer can be reached.


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## NeoGAF Lurker (Jul 28, 2019)

I suspect it’s a net negative for society but we have more pressing concerns to tackle, such as open borders and forced diversity initiatives that are designed to humiliate and oppress the population.


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## Scarlett Johansson (Jul 28, 2019)

I thought Lawrence actually was raped irl? Or was it fictional?


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 28, 2019)

Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> If you think availability and addiction are bad now, just wait until virtual reality becomes more mainstream and the technology becomes more advanced.
> 
> You are going to see a massive increase in sexual dysfunction by mere virtue of the fact that once people are able to live out their fantasies in virtual reality it's going to reinforce those fetishes and they will become the normal.
> 
> ...



It's going to be pretty crazy when virtual reality crosses that market penetration border. There is part of me that believes it simply won't happen, that like google-glass it's too inhuman to receive broad acceptance. Then there's another part of me that thinks everybody will be forced into it one way or another until we're desensitized to it.







(ps that's an amalgation of all real products and patents)


You know what? Maybe the increase in erectile dysfunction is more than just overstimulation. I definitely think it's part of it, but I think there are other factors causing the increase too. Sperm counts are going down for decades. Because of the ubiquity of xeno-estrogens? More sedentary lifestyles? Obesity? Soy in drinks? A little of all of the above?


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> It's going to be pretty crazy when virtual reality crosses that market penetration border. There is part of me that believes it simply won't happen, that like google-glass it's too inhuman to receive broad acceptance. Then there's another part of me that thinks everybody will be forced into it one way or another until we're desensitized to it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 863124
> ...


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## Lemmingwise (Jul 28, 2019)

They took 25 years to copy a scene from Barbarella.


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

I'd like to make a distinction here - Porn is fake encounters, deviance, and crap. People taping themselves having sex is voyeurism.


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## JosephStalin (Jul 28, 2019)

The Saltening said:


> More and more people these days just use each other for pleasure, rampant sex with no commitment. This has made finding a nice "innocent" girl much harder than I think it used to be. I personally want to get married young and have lots of kids. Just like my parents did. But with the way things are looking, I am not sure that is even possible these days, and I personally believe porn has played a role in it.



Believe it's still possible to find the lady you want, will just take more effort.

Reaching back to my high school days, fifty years ago, there were definitely some girls who were "easy".   You also had a huge number of girls get married right after graduation.  They got married and had kids.  Don't know if they had premarital sex.  

One thing that can militate against marrying young and having a lot of kids isn't porn.  It's economics.  When I graduated from high school in 1972 it was possible to get a job right out of high school that would support a family on one salary.  In the rural area where I lived, many of the people who got married right after high school lived on farms, so usually the bride moved to the husband's house and they'd live there until they could get their own place.  The husband worked with his dad/brothers on the farm, which provided the livelihood for all.  The bride would work with her mother-in-law, cooking, cleaning, working in the garden, canning, sometimes driving a tractor/truck, sometimes other farm chores, on top of having the kids.  Brides would also work off the farm, ensuring a source of income independent of the farm.

It's much more expensive to raise a family properly these days, and it's a hell of a lot harder to find a job straight out of high school that will support a family on just the one salary.  Very often both the husband and wife need to work.  Life's just more complex than in 1972.  A personal opinion....I consider it criminal to have more kids than you can afford to provide for at least adequately.   Better to raise one or two well than to raise four or five in hardship.  That's what I did, and made sure my production facilities were shut down at the appropriate time.   Am not advocating I haven't done myself.


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## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Jul 28, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> It's going to be pretty crazy when virtual reality crosses that market penetration border. There is part of me that believes it simply won't happen, that like google-glass it's too inhuman to receive broad acceptance. Then there's another part of me that thinks everybody will be forced into it one way or another until we're desensitized to it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 863124
> ...



I seriously know a few people who has said if they could plug themselves in and check out they would. That sort of shit horrifies me, but I can see some people doing it. Porn or gaming and likely both are going to lead the way on this, and at some point it's going to have net negative effects, though hopefully there will be that salty portion of the population like me who think of this stuff as urban voodoo and eager adopters as lemmings. 

I think the drop in male sperm counts realistically comes more from sedentary lifestyles than any other environmental factor. Sure xeno-estrogen in the water, and plastics aren't good for their second hand effects. 

But if we look at the 1940's male generation where testosterone numbers peaked, and then started to actively shift down. There is a correlation that begins with television viewership, alongside a change in work life (office work) that contributes to its decline over time. And this is the generation that had smoking for your health, lead in household paints, that sort of thing.  

Obesity is also a side effect of sedentary lifestyles, more than anything else, even poor dietary choices. Of course, the dietary choices helps, but the body is incredibly efficient when there is enough activity to burn off calories, we as a society don't partake in enough conscientious exercise/sport which is why the numbers have crept up steadily. 

I also personally think that there is a correlation with people having less sex and the fact that we've got so much choice when it comes to entertainment, society at this point can effectively distract itself with other things that weren't available to any of the population even fifty years ago.


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## Marco Fucko (Jul 28, 2019)

Porn is weak pussy shit set up by faggots because some moralfags (probably women and/or priests) wanted to ban brothels. 
Think of the simplicity and efficiency of just dropping by a whorehouse and busting a nut. Especially with modern tools like birth control and STD prevention pills.


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## Otterly (Jul 28, 2019)

I don’t really have an issue with consenting adults getting off to anything

Where porn is a problem is where it affects real life negatively. I can think of a few main ways:

1. GPs see a LOT of young men who can’t get it up without porn, and it’s affecting their relationships in real life. Twenty something men who can’t get an erection without porn is kinda sad. 

2. Kids seeing it too young on phones. I think that sets up weird expectations for them and isn’t gerribly healthy. Friends with teen girls tell me they’re under pressure to do quite extreme stuff early on. That shit is for adults who’ve been around the block a few times, not teens.

3. There have been a few cases recently in the Uk where women have been killed and the defence was ‘sex gone wrong, she liked it rough m’lud.’ I can’t see how a jury twenty years ago would have accepted that as a defence but now I see it a lot, and I think that’s because of how the window of what’s normal and acceptable has shifted. There was a really awful case in the uk (Natalie Donnelly) where she had horrendous injuries and the jury accepted it was just rough sex gone wrong and the bloke got a year or two in jail. 

I dunno, it’s a difficult one. I don’t really care about what people get off on, but I do think there are issues with stuff spilling over into real life and with kids and phones.


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## UntimelyDhelmise (Jul 28, 2019)

I've seen it stated here multiple times that porn provides a "safe avenue" for deviants to vent their sexual frustrations and keep themselves away from doing the real thing, but the current environment is clearly stating otherwise with the explosion of pedophiles and furries running amok.

In theory just using porn should work as it satisfies the desire in the moment and then you can go on your merry way afterwards, and indeed that's how it does work for some people. But in many cases it doesn't work like that. It gives you the taste of forbidden fruit and leaves you wanting more. More frequent, more intense, more real, like a mental version of a regular drug.

What's worse, the internet not only provides instant easy access to whatever these deviants attach themselves to, but they also can network with others of the same ilk to both reinforce their twisted fetishes as normal in their minds ("If all these other people are into this it must be okay right?") and further influence others on the fringes to join their ranks and spread their presence everywhere.


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## LazarusOwenhart (Jul 28, 2019)

The existence of porn is fine but I do think it can give some people, particularly those who are already kinda stupid, an unreasonable image of sex. I've known people sabotage decent relationships because the woman isn't prepared to be smothered in baby oil, tied up and mouthfucked until she gags as _standard_. (Anyone replying with a 'huur durr women are things' comment is literally proving me right)


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 28, 2019)

LazarusOwenhart said:


> The existence of porn is fine but I do think it can give some people, particularly those who are already kinda stupid, an unreasonable image of sex. I've known people sabotage decent relationships because the woman isn't prepared to be smothered in baby oil, tied up and mouthfucked until she gags as _standard_. (Anyone replying with a 'huur durr women are things' comment is literally proving me right)





THANK YOU!


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## ES 195 (Jul 28, 2019)

I don't think pornography by itself is bad but in modern day I would say it's almost a plague on society. I believe this is due to the ever growing divide of people in our society and how more and more people are becoming isolated and unsocialized. Porn and masturbation is more like a temporary fix to a real 'problem' that people have; being horny and having a strong desire for sexual companionship. The more people watch porn and masturbate the more disconnected  they become with the opposite sex and proper ways to interact. 
I believe this is one reason the incel and other wacko communities only think about people, usually women, in purely physical form. It just becomes a mental shortcut they don't even realizing they're executing when they start talking. 
There's also growing evidence that marriages and relationships are being destroyed by porn since it's so easy and there's something for every fetish and situation.  So while I do don't believe porn is bad in itself it's just become another thing for our overindulgent and low attention span society to become addicted too like booze and sugar.


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## cawk mcnibbler69^% (Jul 28, 2019)

I mean Neutral Tard Cum Hotel is against it, so...


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## NN 401 (Jul 29, 2019)

JosephStalin said:


> Believe it's still possible to find the lady you want, will just take more effort.
> 
> Reaching back to my high school days, fifty years ago, there were definitely some girls who were "easy".   You also had a huge number of girls get married right after graduation.  They got married and had kids.  Don't know if they had premarital sex.
> 
> ...





One of the major things holding people back from going all “Salt of the earth” and all that is that many of us don’t have the skill set to do so.

We can’t farm, do animal husbandry, sew or build and repair anything. 

Even more erudite professions like art have been hollowed out. Being able to draw and draft concepts and designs is a fucking skill first and not a talent.

Now look at it... piss crosses and dung Madonnas every where.


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## DocHoliday1977 (Jul 29, 2019)

BlastDoors41 said:


> One of the major things holding people back from going all “Salt of the earth” and all that is that many of us don’t have the skill set to do so.
> 
> We can’t farm, do animal husbandry, sew or build and repair anything.
> 
> ...




I can sew and make clothes, manage a farm, grow things. But I was raised down south. I know how to can too.

I don’t know, people don’t have experience with the land.


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## Zero Kelvin Cool (Jul 30, 2019)

I've worked closely with this industry for many years and have met everyone from performers, to agents, to execs from different parts of the world. Hopefully I can provide a unique view on this matter. It's kind of a mix of how the industry functions, the different views coming from various sides of the industry, and then my personal views at the end. 

The truth is, porn industry is extremely divided. The execs act nothing like the performers, the performers act nothing like the directors, &c. There are many levels when it comes to moral views in this industry. The most conservative views are often found at the exec level and the lowest morale at the director level, with performers floating somewhere in the middle. The ones at the top of the industry tend to be extremely wealthy ($10-$50+ million), economics degrees, often holding a very neutral personal view of the industry but behave very conservatively among their peers, often lying to them about their work. In other words, *the execs don't even believe in their own industry enough to support it*. 

Moving down to the bottom...The directors are on the opposite spectrum, often promoting hedonism and using it to excuse their questionable behavior. Many of them are okay with rape, pedophilia, racism, etc. in their personal lives. The only issue for directors is legality, not morality. Aside from outright saying it in private gatherings, you can see it among agencies, who already have eyes locked onto girls ages 15-17 (sometimes younger), cutting deals with them long before they even enter the industry. They lack almost all respect and compassion for performers because they know there is always new talent coming in. On average, most performers don't last beyond 5 months because work either runs dry or they don't find the value in continuing. Directors are also the ones that push content on its viewers, despite the content being unpopular. Given their highly centralized nature, this is one industry where popularity can truly be and is forced. This is also a big part of what reflects the negative view of the industry. For example, most people didn't start watching "Teen Porn" because that's what they always liked. It gets embedded into viewers with time - an ad here, a recommendation there, or blasting them on the front pages of every porn/tube site owned by the same company, MindGeek. The same went for the "Ass" category and the more recent "TS" category. You may or may not realize this already, but you don't actually control what porn you like, MindGeek does. Other categories that are enormously popular and grew to that popularity organically, such as "Asian", are mostly ignored by directors and Mindgeek because it doesn't fit their own agenda, which is *to continue to push new content and to do so as close to the legal boundaries as possible*. There was a movie made on this called, "A Serbian Film" which basically sums this up in a way you'll never forget. This is not fiction, but is exactly the direction we are going and it isn't the pornstars that are agreeing to do it, but directors starting to take matters into their own hands via hate porn, filmed rape, etc. This is all cushioned up with complementary "staged" rape and "staged" incest, etc. This isn't some conspiracy or anything like that, it's how the industry works and always has worked (since the 70s, at least). It didn't always work, however. As was witnessed with "BBC", which repeatedly failed to kick off for 3 decades, then a bit of a success in the early 2000s, and now finally it's here, thanks to talents like Greg Lansky who used solid directing to achieve it. P.S. Greg Lansky (Blacked, Vixen) may not appear like it, but he is one of the most professional figures in the industry, compared to everyone else. There is no one else like him. Performers who leave the industry will come back just to shoot for his companies. This industry needs more people like him. 

Moving to the performers. For some, the stereotypes are true. However, there are many performers who actually are intelligent and their work has enabled them to hold an uncanny view on adult work that most average people cannot begin to comprehend. These are also the performers that do the _worst _in the industry, as directors always hate hiring them. Directors like the girls that look dumb and drugged up. They prefer girls who are dumb and don't talk, unless it's about cock in their mouth. A recent example is Lana Rhodes, a total idiot who became a heroine addict because of this industry, but managed to break free and escape from their grip before she ended up killing herself. This is where you and many others get their stereotyping from. You only know of the airheads, you don't know and don't care about the intellectuals, just as you've been coded not to. Again, you may think you're smart, but you've been eating out of someone else's hand, being fed what they want you to eat because it's what makes them money. Something so simple has corrupted your ability to question your own view of the world - a forced philosophy, if you will. They do this to their performers and their viewers. There are some things far beyond their control though, such as economics - specifically, capitalism. When it comes to performers, in general, *the performers are gradually giving up on "traditional" porn and opting to cam or produce their own indie content, where they don't get treated like shit and shortchanged. *More are starting to realize that this is what they should have done from the start. MindGeek knows this and has gone as far as attempting to lure them back by creating a platform for them on Pornhub. Imagine the idiot you have to be to give up your content to a free porn site....surprisingly, there are many. Once again, they manage to put the ball back into their park. MindGeek, they are fucking brilliant mind rapists.

This industry is extremely centralized and MindGeek has a monopoly on it. There are few directors and few agents that all work very closely together, a.k.a. Spiegler, OC Modeling, and Jules Jordan. Government doesn't care because...you know...it's the adult industry. Why the fuck should you care about what other humans are doing? Society has no compassion for the adult sector. I don't have a direct link and I'm too lazy to find it because I've been busy writing this fucking essay, but you can read an old article about a MindGeek exec bragging about it. The adult industry is in its own bubble that is pretty much rotting from within, regardless of you trying to ban it or not. Capitalism is taking care of it at this point, as no one else would - with earnings depleting, work slowing down, suicide rates going up, HIV cases popping up again, falsified tests, expensive testing and companies forcing "no-condom" while refusing to pay for performer's tests, and as I mentioned there are much better opportunities for the performers to shoot their own content, now that cameras are really good and easy to operate. Does that make porn bad? No. It makes porn _badly managed. _There is just so much division among all the gears that keep it running.

The act of sex on display is perfectly fine, in my opinion. This is not what leads to the many so called "issues" associated with it. The concept of "good" and "bad" have nothing to do with anything, as they are not quantifiable and possess no logical value. You don't need to look far back to find porn that was once considered to be "hardcore" but is completely normal today. That's because there is no logical progression, it's just repeated guessing and society's definition of "good" and "bad" changes as a result of this guessing and altering views of life itself. Good and bad is governed by your philosophy, not by reason. If all of the sudden everyone takes on Existential Nihilism as the leading view of life, then you'll quickly find very little of the "good" and "bad" you find today to apply to them. This guessing occurs whenever society is presented with something new to question, which is the responsibility of directors - to push new content, to make society guess, to change their views. It's pretty easy to change beliefs, especially when you are completely unaware of your own beliefs to any substantial extend, and it's really hard to change facts. Anyways, an interesting side note: this whole thing actually goes beyond porn and has its roots in fashion, where women were told what they could and couldn't wear, and even engineering was sometimes guided by it, such as the case with the "female bicycle" which has its shape to prevent females from lifting their legs too high up when getting on. Since then it's all been about more, more, more...I believe that the sooner we all become comfortable with nudity and sex, the sooner the "problems" will go away on their own. We need to be bored of sex, bored of nudity. After all, sex was just a victim of recessive ideologies. This is what happens when you push monogamy, make up sins and "rules" about what you can and cannot wear, show or not show, or making it seem like marriage has more meaning than it really does. Just like when we mistakenly put ourselves at the center of the universe, we mistakenly put our bodies at the center or morale. The pornstars are all just the naked modern-day Giordano Bruno. Porn is a major philosophical challenge for humanity, because it really forces you into questionable territories and like all such territories, no one is rushing to get through them.


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## NN 401 (Jul 30, 2019)

Your insight into the industry is fascinating, even though I wholeheartedly disagree with your take on the concepts of good and evil at end. It’s a bit ironic since you’ve detailed out the mass corruption, social engineering and harm that’s rampant in the industry in the first half. 
A man is known by his works, don’t you think? And industries aren’t above this rule?

Anyways, thanks for the taking the time to write this up.


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 1, 2019)

Zero Kelvin Cool said:


> We need to be bored of sex, bored of nudity. After all, sex was just a victim of recessive ideologies. This is what happens when you push monogamy, make up sins and "rules" about what you can and cannot wear, show or not show, or making it seem like marriage has more meaning than it really does.



People didn't make up sins for shit and giggles. People pushed monogamy because it was considered the healthiest model and it still seems to be the healthiest family model. It was propagated through religion because it was considered a good way to organize society. Tell me if there's a model that's better for children than monogamous marriage. I can see the arguments for divorce as a substitute for daily fighting, but in the end it's very expensive to pay for two living spaces instead of one, so you're sacrificing resources that otherwise could have gone into children's education.

Or children's food, depending how far you go back in history.


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## Dom Cruise (Aug 1, 2019)

Marco Fucko said:


> Porn is weak pussy shit set up by faggots because some moralfags (probably women and/or priests) wanted to ban brothels.
> Think of the simplicity and efficiency of just dropping by a whorehouse and busting a nut. Especially with modern tools like birth control and STD prevention pills.



It would be so nice....



LazarusOwenhart said:


> The existence of porn is fine but I do think it can give some people, particularly those who are already kinda stupid, an unreasonable image of sex. I've known people sabotage decent relationships because the woman isn't prepared to be smothered in baby oil, tied up and mouthfucked until she gags as _standard_. (Anyone replying with a 'huur durr women are things' comment is literally proving me right)



Man, I couldn't imagine expecting stuff like that as a _standard_.

Just let me stick my thingamajig in and I'd be happy.



cawk mcnibbler69^% said:


> I mean Neutral Tard Cum Hotel is against it, so...



Semen stains the mountaintops, semen stains the mountaintops....


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 2, 2019)

Zero Kelvin Cool said:


> The truth is, porn industry is extremely divided. The execs act nothing like the performers, the performers act nothing like the directors, &c. There are many levels when it comes to moral views in this industry. The most conservative views are often found at the exec level and the lowest morale at the director level, with performers floating somewhere in the middle. The ones at the top of the industry tend to be extremely wealthy ($10-$50+ million), economics degrees, often holding a very neutral personal view of the industry but behave very conservatively among their peers, often lying to them about their work. In other words, *the execs don't even believe in their own industry enough to support it*.



It's hard to believe they have a genuinely neutral view on this. You say that the reason for pushing the envelope of pornography is because of the hedonist directors, but you've also established that pornography is mostly a mindgeek monopoly, which means that directors are as much dependant as the performers are, even if they have a longer shelf life.

As you say, the execs brag about having their own little playing field.

It seems you're somewhat letting them off the hook, imho, but that may be how I'm reading into it.



Zero Kelvin Cool said:


> The concept of "good" and "bad" have nothing to do with anything, as they are not quantifiable and possess no logical value.



There is logical value to morality, though. The simplest example is that the concept of a "promise" has no meaning unless there is actual effort to keep a promise. Absent of other information, a it's good to keep a promise and it's bad to break a promise.

And since you can discuss the effects of pornography you can discuss whether it's good or bad too. There may be parts that we don't know and parts where cause and effect are not clear at all, but that doesn't mean we're completely clueless either.


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## LyapunovCriterion (Aug 2, 2019)

In practical terms, pornography is a drug. Addicts are junkies and, therefore, trash. Banning it is useless, though, instead we should investigate why junkies seek it for comfort or escapism.


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## Lemmingwise (Aug 2, 2019)

LyapunovCriterion said:


> instead we should investigate why junkies seek it for comfort or escapism.



It's not a mystery.

Because it feels good in the short term.


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## Niggernerd (Aug 2, 2019)

It's good for when my gf goes to cons and I don't feel like spending money to be around fat smelly weebs. She's a trooper for going.


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## cawk mcnibbler69^% (Aug 2, 2019)

Dom Cruise said:


> It would be so nice....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Neutral Malk Incel then?


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