# Did Michael Jackson Do It



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 2, 2019)

With "Leaving Neverland" on the horizon, I wanted to start a serious discussion about whether Jackson has touched children or not. Personally, it is my opinion that he did touch these children, but I believe he framed it in his own head as "I'm not doing anything wrong" or "I can do whatever I want". The spin from the Jackson family is just disgusting, they're asked point blank several interviews throughout the years whether taking boys to your bed is the wrong thing to do, and they try to frame it as "well, Michael would never do that" or "Michael was the king of pop, he's above that".  Then more recently, they claim it's about money. While I do believe it's about money, I also still believe all these boys were molested and became accustomed to living life as a kept woman?  child. Personally, though, I think the Jackson family is quite delusional and still act as if Jackson is the King of Pop. I mean, there's no reason to have children sleeping in your bed when you're not living in a country that is segregated on the basis of sex. 





Jame Safechuck and Wade Robson's stories do seem very sincere. I've met some people that have been molested, and the claimed up until a certain point of their development, they actually believed they enjoyed the abuse. It's not uncommon. Michael has even groomed children on live TV like in that interview with Martin Bachir or like when he was being inappropriate with Jordy Chandler at the World Music Awards. Both Safechuck and Robson have lied to save Michael. Who in the hell wouldn't be ashamed to let everyone know they got molested by this old faggot, who manipulated them and their families.













What I find the most disgusting is MJ's disgusting fans gaslighting and discredting these sexually abused men in the era of #MeToo and #GirlsLikeUs. Shit, MJ has been accused more times than Harvey Weinstein, and his crimes are even worse.

Twitter's Reaction


Spoiler: Twitter




















MJ even had a type, and if you look up their photos today, they are very attractive men, which means they were probably very attractive as children. I never saw a fat, ugly bucktoothed black kid every make allegations against MJ. 






Spoiler: MJ's Type
























Thoughts?


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## La Luz Extinguido (Mar 2, 2019)

The last "black kid" is actually a mulatto and not truly black, I'm offended at how racists he was while molesting children, I guess I wasn't white enough for this bigot.


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## Sperglord Dante (Mar 2, 2019)

I do believe MJ molested those children.

I also believe Joe Jackson sexually abused Michael when he was a child himself.


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## oldTireWater (Mar 2, 2019)

That "dude" was too fucked up to NOT abuse children.


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## Graffiti canvas (Mar 2, 2019)

I've always felt that Micheal did do shit that crossed the line of sexual appropriateness with boys. But did it because of how fucked up in the head he was from literally being cannibalized body, soul and mind from a young age by his family and the media. 

Micheal Jackson's personal life is a fucking train wreck and not always because of his own doing.


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## IV 445 (Mar 2, 2019)

With all the child rape in Hollywood, it’s easy to say yes, but I think Michael Jackson was just a typical head case and not a pedo


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## Quijibo69 (Mar 2, 2019)

I hope I can watch that documentary tomorrow night. Looks like a fun shit show.


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## Glad I couldn't help (Mar 2, 2019)

Graffiti canvas said:


> I've always felt that Micheal did do shit that crossed the line of sexual appropriateness with boys. But did it because of how fucked up in the head he was from literally being cannibalized body, soul and mind from a young age by his family and the media.
> 
> Micheal Jackson's personal life is a fucking train wreck and not always because of his own doing.


The whole lesson people should take away from this shitshow is *don't let children into show business*.


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## Pickle Inspector (Mar 2, 2019)

I’m not sure there was anything overtly sexual but he was definitely a weirdo who acted inappropriately which is all too easy to overlook as eccentric behaviour when they’re a highly successful beloved pop sensation.

As a fan I’m probally being biased though.


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## Thomas Bayard (Mar 2, 2019)

MJ had major boundary issues with children that should give everyone pause, but I tend to doubt the allegations of sexual misconduct. For one, MJ has been guileless over the years in describing his love of children. You'd think someone with a furtive sexual interest in children would be a bit more circumspect, but MJ was right out in the open about sharing his bed with kids and holding hands with young boys on camera. Maybe he was just shameless or thought he was untouchable, but he didn't act like someone with something to hide.

The only case that ever went to trial was an absolute shitshow for the prosecution. The Santa Barbara DA Tom Sneddon acted like an arrogant asshole in media interviews and came off as vindictive. The mother accusing MJ of molestation had a long history of running grifts and scams and exhibited bizarre behavior in the courtroom that sunk the prosecution's case. Macauley Culkin and Wade Robson both testified under oath that MJ didn't molest them.

I know that money can make a lot of potential witnesses clam up, but you'd think that after a two-year investigation the Santa Barbara DA could dig up a more credible accuser among the thousands of children who visited Neverland.

Again, there's no question that MJ's behavior with children was weird and inappropriate, but the trial and acquittal more or less convinced me that the accusations of sexual misconduct were unfounded. I haven't seen the new documentary, but it strikes me as an opportunistic cash-in on the #MeToo craze. If Robson is to be believed, he perjured himself in the 2005 trial. It's hard to take him seriously now.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 2, 2019)

Thomas Bayard said:


> If Robson is to be believed, he perjured himself in the 2005 trial. It's hard to take him seriously now.



It's not unlike abused victims, especially children, to cosign this BS. If this is true, I am sure at that time, Robson was still deep in the victim mindset of having a bond with their abuser.



Thomas Bayard said:


> Maybe he was just shameless or thought he was untouchable, but he didn't act like someone with something to hide.


You can't refute the evidence of Jackson sleeping in the same bed as Jordie for up to a month.
Also, the hallway to Jackson's bedroom was fitted with alarms, cameras, and sensors.
If this were any other black man, the moment these stories started coming out, he would be beaten and sent to jail regardless of his behavior. Since it's the King of Popping Little Boys Pop, he's somehow above this. You have the right to believe what you want, but this is the part I've never understood. He has the impeachable character and reputation Jussie Smollett wishes he had.



> I know that money can make a lot of potential witnesses clam up, but you'd think that after a two-year investigation the Santa Barbara DA could dig up a more credible accuser among the thousands of children who visited Neverland.


The DA for the Menendez brothers retrial had the same boner for their conviction. I also believe that they were molested, and I also believe they were guilty of what they were accused of doing.


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## Roy Earle (Mar 2, 2019)

I don't believe Wade Robison, He comes out after he got rejected by the Estate for choreography role on some Posthumous MJ Show and his book deal fell through. Jane probably hoped on with Wade for the Money. Unless Macaulay Culkin said MJ is guilty then I will believe


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## vanilla_pepsi_head (Mar 2, 2019)

I haven't yet seen the movie and I'm not overly familiar with all the evidence so please correct me if I'm wrong. First I heard some kids made their accusations, but some later admitted they made it up because their parents told them to. Now some of them are saying it did indeed happen but they were intimidated into recanting with threats and hush money. Have I got that right?

Either way I'm torn tbh. Spoiling random kids like that and sleeping in the same bed as them is weird and creepy as shit, and there is no doubt that at least happened. MJ was clearly an extremely disturbed individual so I don't think it's impossible that he bought these kids' friendship (for lack of a better term) because he felt like he missed out on childhood/friendship, felt the need to relive it and/or give kids what he never had: A fun childhood and loving male authority figure. Even if his intentions were 100% non-sexual it's still really inappropriate and I have a hard time understanding how any of the other adults involved were ok with this. Obviously he was extremely mentally ill, but unlike most delusional people his money allowed him to do whatever the fuck he pleased.

So did he actually rape these kids? Maybe. He managed to find a doctor scummy enough to administer propofol as a sleep aid, it's not a stretch he also found parents willing to pimp out their kids, people do that for money and drugs all the time. Victims do lie to cover up for their abuser, even when money isn't a factor they often do it out of obligation or shame. But it is equally plausible to me that people would throw around false accusations for money and attention. Some people will say or do literally anything to be on TV (look at some of the nutjobs who accused Kavanaugh for fucksake).

So I'm really not sure if I fully believe he did or not. Either way his behavior was throwing up giant red flags in the most brazen way possible and the people who allowed their kids to have slumber parties with a severely mentally ill, childless, grown-ass man should be publicly flogged.


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## Pickle Inspector (Mar 2, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> You can't refute the evidence of Jackson sleeping in the same bed as Jordie for up to a month.
> Also, the hallway to Jackson's bedroom was fitted with alarms, cameras, and sensors.
> If this were any other black man, the moment these stories started coming out, he would be beaten and sent to jail regardless of his behavior. Since it's the King of Popping Little Boys Pop, he's somehow above this. You have the right to believe what you want, but this is the part I've never understood. He has the impeachable character and reputation Jussie Smollett wishes he had.


The cameras and alarms aren’t too bad since it’s not altogether unreasonable that someone as famous as Jackson would be paranoid about his personal security, if not because of crazy fans then the paparazzi.

It’s very suspect Micheal sleeping in the same bed as children but I guess it’s up to personal opinion if it was because he thought it was innocent and for some reason everyone just went along with it or it was cover for him to molest children.

His reputation is hard to compare to anyone else because he was such a big star, the closest I can think of is Elvis or Bowie but even then neither of those were thought of as being naive and childlike, it’d be like if Chris became a billionaire megastar and started holding My Little Pony or Pokemon conventions at his mansion and having sleepovers with the guests he liked, it’d be hard to tell as an outsider how pure his intentions were.


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 2, 2019)

Probably not, but we'll never know.

I think it was all revenge against him singing "jew me sue me" and "kick me kike me don't you black and white me".


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## Some JERK (Mar 2, 2019)

I feel the same way about this as I do about the possibility of 9-11 being an inside job: If they did it, then they pretty much got away with it.


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## UtopiaGuy (Mar 2, 2019)

Graffiti canvas said:


> I've always felt that Micheal did do shit that crossed the line of sexual appropriateness with boys. But did it because of how fucked up in the head he was from literally being cannibalized body, soul and mind from a young age by his family and the media.
> 
> Micheal Jackson's personal life is a fucking train wreck and not always because of his own doing.


I think this is pretty close to the truth. Michael was a weird guy. I mean, just look at what he did to himself with all that plastic surgery and skin bleaching. He looked like a fucking shop window mannequin. He probably did cross the line, but outright child fucking? I dunno. He always seemed to see _himself_ as a child, and was all into that Peter Pan never-grow-up shit. Children don't fuck other children, they have sleepovers and play games together and shit. And the childishness combined with that high falsetto speaking voice, honestly, I thought he was just gay, maybe. He was married and sired at least one kid, so only his wives could say if he was truly hot for twat or not. I won't lie. I don't _want _to believe he was a child fucker because he was such a huge cultural icon when I was growing up in the 80's. That's childhood, man. Warm memories. No worries. Good days back when things weren't all going to shit like they are now. So, if he _did_ fuck children, and it were true... then that would take away some of that halcyon joy, and it would almost be as if he had molested _me,_ too.


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 2, 2019)

UtopiaGuy said:


> He always seemed to see _himself_ as a child, and was all into that Peter Pan never-grow-up shit.



No he wasn't experiencing a second youth or neverending youth. He was experiencing a first youth, having to deal with adult like responsibilities as a kid.

I remember reading how he and brooke shields met and they only had one talk but really connected. Two kids that didn't get to be kids when they were kids.


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## Jeanne d'Arc (Mar 2, 2019)

Whole thing is such a fucking shitshow.

Neverland in and of itself is such a despicable thing to think about- but it CAN be explained as Michael just not having any childhood and wanting to fill that gap. It's entirely possible he fucked kids there, yes. I think he thought it was normal with the abuse he allegedly endured.

The one clip that convinced me he was somewhat behind mentally: 




He calls shopping around/flying around on carts/messing around with employees and doing dumb shit in a supermarket "like _Disneyland_." He probably never had the chance to do that shit as a kid, and obviously as an adult being as famous as he was he had no chance to do that. Just the fact that he enjoyed it that much though...

I can't help but feel bad for him seeing as he probably was abused as a child, and it just fed into this cycle. Michael couldn't cope with in the slightest- the people accusing him built somewhat successful careers and seem developmentally _there_.

I don't think there's any justice anywhere in this story, which is sad.


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## UtopiaGuy (Mar 2, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> No he wasn't experiencing a second youth or neverending youth. He was experiencing a first youth, having to deal with adult like responsibilities as a kid.
> 
> I remember reading how he and brooke shields met and they only had one talk but really connected. Two kids that didn't get to be kids when they were kids.


That's kind of what he wanted, though, to have a childhood for real. That was the whole point of Neverland Ranch, really. There was a report on it (I want to say Lesley Stahl did one for 60 Minutes), where Michael himself was not there during her tour, but everything was running anyway. The rides, the popcorn machines, the calliope, etc. Childhood eternal. To be fair, in her report she said she was unsure if it was always running 24/7, or just because they knew she'd be there that day.


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## Bunny Tracks (Mar 2, 2019)

To be honest, I really don't know. I don't think something happened, but if something did, then I don't think MJ did it maliciously. I believe that if he did molest those boys, he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.


Sperglord Dante said:


> I also believe Joe Jackson sexually abused Michael when he was a child himself.


I believe this, too. He also might've chemically castrated MJ during puberty which would've only fucked him up even more.


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## Thomas Bayard (Mar 2, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> It's not unlike abused victims, especially children, to cosign this BS.


Fair enough, but Robson was 22 years old when he testified. When MJ's defense team came calling, he could have just said "no thanks, I'm busy." Instead, he walked into the courtroom of his own accord, swore an oath to tell the truth, and testified that MJ never molested him.

It strains credulity to believe that MJ would continue to maintain mental control over his victims for years after the alleged abuse occurred, to the point that they would voluntarily appear in court and perjure themselves to protect him. Not impossible, but highly unlikely in my opinion.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 2, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> No he wasn't experiencing a second youth or neverending youth. He was experiencing a first youth, having to deal with adult like responsibilities as a kid.
> 
> I remember reading how he and brooke shields met and they only had one talk but really connected. Two kids that didn't get to be kids when they were kids.
> 
> View attachment 682532


The problem is, thre's boys who are now men, who have shared more intimacy with Michael Jackson when compared to Shields. That's even if you remove the molestation element. 



Thomas Bayard said:


> It strains credulity to believe that MJ would continue to maintain mental control over his victims for years after the alleged abuse occurred, to the point that they would voluntarily appear in court and perjure themselves to protect him. Not impossible, but highly unlikely in my opinion


No, it's not. It's for the same reason that a lot of child molestations victims don't come foward or even tell their parents for that matter. These grown adult, heterosexual men even admit to being brainwashed into believing that they were in a romantic relationship with Jackson and that they were the only ones, as if that made them special. Michael convinced them that if they came forward, both parties would lose their careers and reputations. This is classic predatory behavior. I could understand if this was just one boy at some random slumber party, but you can't explain away taking children to your bed as "Oh, that's just MJ" because we are all sexual human beings. Even trannies who have been chemically castrated have been moved to female prisons, and we've heard reports of them raping biologically female inamates. 
Also, boys are a lot more likely to be molested since parents keep a close watch on girls classifying them as "fragile".


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Mar 3, 2019)

What the hell were these kid's parents doing letting them hang out with an adult in the first place?

That idea alone should sound the pedo alarms.

Also, yes. He did it.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 3, 2019)

Sword Fighter Super said:


> What the hell were these kid's parents doing letting them hang out with an adult in the first place?
> 
> That idea alone should sound the pedo alarms.
> 
> Also, yes. He did it.


The guys explained it as MJ also grooming their family. They address it in the documentary.


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## Volvo240 (Mar 3, 2019)

If he was alive it wouldn't have mattered. He would have been #metoo'd


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## Clop (Mar 3, 2019)

The very first accusation was Jordan Chandler, who got a few million dollars for the stunt and later admitted to the whole thing being false after MJ's death. Unless there was physical evidence, I'm calling every single one of the accusers a money-grabbing cunt who realized that it pays to lie. It likely still pays to go on documentaries to talk about the experience.

His own sister LaToya tried to sell him out as a pedo for 500k (and also accused him of trying to kidnap and murder her) but obviously that didn't go fucking anywhere and the family was quite pissed.

So no, I don't particularly believe it just because ducks quack. There's plenty to gain, nothing to lose.


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 3, 2019)

The lack of credibility of many of the accusers plays a significant part why I'm doubtful. Though on the other hand famous people know like no others to cultivate an image and you might not know at all what they are like.

Just look at the posted video of Michael Jackson shopping in a supermarket. He just wanted the normal shopping experience. Which includes, apparantly, a film crew, playing your music on the system, playing frisbee, and making icecream on your head. I know no ordinary shopping experience is complete until I turn my hat into a sundae for television.

The fact that the press reported so widely on it despite being pre-metoo/cosby when it was standard procedure to hide these things as the press, casts further doubt on it. I do think it's likelier that he got those kids out of abusive situations instead. We really can't know.


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## Niggernerd (Mar 3, 2019)

I think he was just a mental case who didn't understand boundaries even with children. Give how fucked his life was and iirc the lack of getting to live his childhood it's possible his conscious had enough and basically reverted to child like mentality while still being able to function as an adult?  Basically he was probably :autistic:


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## queue-anon (Mar 3, 2019)

UtopiaGuy said:


> I think this is pretty close to the truth. Michael was a weird guy. I mean, just look at what he did to himself with all that plastic surgery and skin bleaching. He looked like a fucking shop window mannequin. He probably did cross the line, but outright child fucking? I dunno. He always seemed to see _himself_ as a child, and was all into that Peter Pan never-grow-up shit. Children don't fuck other children, they have sleepovers and play games together and shit. And the childishness combined with that high falsetto speaking voice, honestly, I thought he was just gay, maybe. He was married and sired at least one kid, so only his wives could say if he was truly hot for twat or not. I won't lie. I don't _want _to believe he was a child fucker because he was such a huge cultural icon when I was growing up in the 80's. That's childhood, man. Warm memories. No worries. Good days back when things weren't all going to shit like they are now. So, if he _did_ fuck children, and it were true... then that would take away some of that halcyon joy, and it would almost be as if he had molested _me,_ too.



MJ had vitiligo. He definitely got his skin bleached, but I think he did that at least in part to even out his skin tone.

From what I understand, Joe was responsible for the falsetto. He thought it would keep MJ from being a scary black man who would freak out white people. Joe also abused all his kids for being “ugly”, so it’s not surprising so many of them clearly had/have body dysmorphia. What’s surprising to me is that they don’t all have it.

And he had a bio kid? Both Paris and Prince Michael were fathered by someone else; rumor has it their bio dad was MJ’s lawyer.


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## Dysnomia (Mar 3, 2019)

Graffiti canvas said:


> I've always felt that Micheal did do shit that crossed the line of sexual appropriateness with boys. But did it because of how fucked up in the head he was from literally being cannibalized body, soul and mind from a young age by his family and the media.
> 
> Micheal Jackson's personal life is a fucking train wreck and not always because of his own doing.



He had zero childhood of his own. Neverland was a way for him to make up for lost time. Michael said that he would stare out the window at other children playing but he couldn't join them because he had to practice all the time.

Macauley Culkin still mains that Michael never touched him. Feldman is still absolutely obsessed to the point where he still is mini me-ing Michael. That in itself is a sad tragedy.



Pickle Inspector said:


> The cameras and alarms aren’t too bad since it’s not altogether unreasonable that someone as famous as Jackson would be paranoid about his personal security, if not because of crazy fans then the paparazzi.
> 
> It’s very suspect Micheal sleeping in the same bed as children but I guess it’s up to personal opinion if it was because he thought it was innocent and for some reason everyone just went along with it or it was cover for him to molest children.
> 
> His reputation is hard to compare to anyone else because he was such a big star, the closest I can think of is Elvis or Bowie but even then neither of those were thought of as being naive and childlike, it’d be like if Chris became a billionaire megastar and started holding My Little Pony or Pokemon conventions at his mansion and having sleepovers with the guests he liked, it’d be hard to tell as an outsider how pure his intentions were.



Some of the things I have read include that Michael's bedroom was more like a good sized apartment. Wasn't it two floors? So sleeping in his room was like staying over in another house. I thought I also read that he let children sleep in his bed while he slept elsewhere. If he shared the bed at the same time he may have truly thought it was innocent because these were the sleepovers he wasn't allowed to have as a kid.

I don't really know what to think because it is all very suspect and we will never have the full story regardless. I don't think that Jame and Wade are lying though. I do believe that weird things went on but Michael saw them as innocent. Maybe I am wrong and he was deliberatey preying on those boys. But I really think he was damaged enough to not see as clearly as we would expect. I am not excusing the behavior. I'm just saying it is more complex.

I just find it interesting that two very prominant former child stars (Culkin and Feldman) have never come forward with anything damning. One could say Feldman's crazy and deliberately fruitless pedo hunt built on his fangirls bank accounts is just a denial factory that also helps pay for his drugs and vacations. Feldman himself is a sexual predator and many former Angels have complained about him. I don't remember hearing anything similar about Culkin. But if these two were abused by Michael maybe they handled it differently.

I also heard that Emmanuel Lewis' parents were concerned about how close Michael was to him. Someone like Emmanuel Lewis must have been fascinating to Michael.

The whole Jackson family is nuts. What can you expect?


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## ObsoleteMediaFormat (Mar 3, 2019)

No, but his relationships with children weren't at all healthy, he clearly had a number of issues coming from his childhood and no parent should have ever let their kids be around him unsupervised.
Never forget this


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Mar 3, 2019)

Niggernerd said:


> Basically he was probably :autistic:



I just saw the shopping videos and realized that the way he speaks reminded me of CWC. A weird monotone voice.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 3, 2019)

queue-anon said:


> MJ had vitiligo. He definitely got his skin bleached, but I think he did that at least in part to even out his skin tone.
> 
> From what I understand, Joe was responsible for the falsetto. He thought it would keep MJ from being a scary black man who would freak out white people. Joe also abused all his kids for being “ugly”, so it’s not surprising so many of them clearly had/have body dysmorphia. What’s surprising to me is that they don’t all have it.
> 
> And he had a bio kid? Both Paris and Prince Michael were fathered by someone else; rumor has it their bio dad was MJ’s lawyer.


About the Joe Jackson abuse thing, it just proves how abuse and control can last way into adult and can be difficult to break. 


As for Culkin, Feldmand, and Lewis not being abused, it still makes sense since they were stars at the time and had more credibility than unknown boys. Michael wouldn't risk molesting them, but he would get off on being around them similar to how autogynephelics try to assimilate themselves into women's lives, but they wait till they're in private for a release while thinking about the women. Also, MJ had no bio kids, he hated being a black homo.


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## JektheDumbass (Mar 3, 2019)

MJ was a scapegoat to distract us from all the pedophile Jews in show business.


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## Chewy Suarez (Mar 3, 2019)

Honestly, I think Micheal’s behavior is just a product of his extremely abusive upbringing. He was groomed to become the next big thing like the rest of his siblings, and there was absolutely no time for childish things like sleepovers, amusement parks, ice cream and teddy bears. That’s why shit like the Neverland Ranch and the sleepovers/hangouts with child actors exists: to get back a childhood he sadly never got the chance to have. 

He’s a battered child inside the body of a mature adult who cracked immensely under the pressure of being a famous megastar a-la Princess Azula after or during the Bad! era(?). He just managed to get even more and more fucked up the more he spiraled into madness. And honestly, I really feel bad for the guy. He had no control with how he was raised and acted in a way he thought was right like a five year old, it just looked bizarre and pedophilic to outsiders looking in.

...and this will age bad when the allegations turn out to be true.


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## MAGICMAN!!! (Mar 3, 2019)

Weird question, how many siblings came before him? It's believed bisexuality/gayness in males tends to be likelier the more sex your parents have had and the more times they've had to give birth, there is a scientifically studied correlation. If he's the youngest of many brothers it at least means he's likelier to be aroused by other males than otherwise.


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## Chewy Suarez (Mar 3, 2019)

MAGICMAN!!! said:


> Weird question, how many siblings came before him? It's believed bisexuality/gayness in males tends to be likelier the more sex your parents have had and the more times they've had to give birth, there is a scientifically studied correlation. If he's the youngest of many brothers it at least means he's likelier to be aroused by other males than otherwise.



He’s third to youngest ahead of his sister Janet and bro Randy (not the American Idol one).


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## Bob's Vagene (Mar 4, 2019)

I really don't know. I always felt he was under-developed mentally and certainly had boundary issues with children, but I also have a hard time seeing him doing anything sexually to anyone. Also as someone said previously, Wade Robson has reason  to go after his image now. Although when he was alive, he always defended him. Even at his trial, and spoke at his funeral. So it's really hard to say, for me.


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## Medicated (Mar 4, 2019)

JektheDumbass said:


> MJ was a scapegoat to distract us from all the pedophile Jews in show business.



You may joke, but it may not be too far from the truth.  For example, an excerpt from a comment on the Weinstein scandal.

_"Argento didn't just pay off the 17 year old kid she raped, it's been shown on her social media that she'd been stalking him for years, was obsessed with him and had been grooming him for years. Some of her Instagram has been archived and it shows a weird obsession with CP style imagery and the occult. 

At this point it's safe to say that poundmetoo was nothing more than a cover for Hollywood pedos.

Harvey was never that big of a deal, and by the time the New Yorker piece was released he was a mid level player at best. Throwing a fat, ugly Jew who confirms to all the stereotypes of Jew creeps in Hollywood was definitely diversion. Something major league triggered it, we'll prob never know, but def pedo related.

Poundmetoo was all ready to go as soon as the media onslaught on Weinstein started. Typical by the numbers astro turfing. It immediately sucked all the oxygen out of the room, and it had anyone with a penis scared shitless they'd be next. Note poundmetoo NEVER brings up pedophilia as a problem in Hollywood even though it's endemic in the industry. Now we know that the two central figures behind the movement is a pedo and a pedo enabler. Nothing else to say, case closed._ "

Michael Jackson was a famous weirdo with a penchant for hanging around kids.  If you were a bunch of Directors, Producers, CEO's, etc who wanted to pin perception of pedophilia onto Michael Jackson, who wouldn't believe that?

Meanwhile famous people work with children for decades are still to this day considered beyond reproach.


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## Xerxes IX (Mar 4, 2019)

He was definitely mentally stunted because of abuse and lack of a childhood but any non rich and famous person who was messed up in the head like this would be told to stay away from kids for their own good since they are unable to judge what's appropriate. He got enabled to the nth degree and it wasn't good for anyone.


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 4, 2019)

Medicated said:


> Harvey was never that big of a deal, and by the time the New Yorker piece was released he was a mid level player at best. Throwing a fat, ugly Jew who confirms to all the stereotypes of Jew creeps in Hollywood was definitely diversion



I remember watching hollywood interviews in that time. They all looked fucking terrified. The jig is up, their faces seemed to say. Seth Rogan, Tom Hanks, they were very unusual interviews. Very very nervous.

Then a couple of days letter they suddenly all got on the same message. "This doesn't just happen in hollywood, this happens everywhere!"

A day or two later #metoo is coined and every roastie who has ever received a sideway glance at work chimes in (yes I'm sure more than a few had been sexually harrassed or worse) and in doing so they created the smokescreen that hollywood needed to continue the grooming and raping of kids that would put rotherham to shame and thanks to that smokescreen the interviews became relaxed and calm again.

edit: just turn the sound off and look at the body language of this video from the week that the harvey weinstein thing hit. Just look at their terrified faces.


----------



## Judge Holden (Mar 4, 2019)

Plot twist. He was actually gangraped by the little boys he invited for a sleepover and this is what finally broke his sanity


----------



## Maxliam (Mar 4, 2019)

Sperglord Dante said:


> I do believe MJ molested those children.
> 
> I also believe Joe Jackson sexually abused Michael when he was a child himself.


I think it's so common that it's basically a given. Think about it, what normal adult would want to hang around kids he's not related to, teaching in a classroom, or examining as a doctor? Add the fact that actors/actresses are going to be very attractive people, it just is paradise for a pedo.

Another thing blacks won't admit to is that sexual abuse is RAMPANT in their communities. The reason it seems like whites do it more is because it gets REPORTED more often. Blacks don't report a lot of things in their communities.



Lemmingwise said:


> No he wasn't experiencing a second youth or neverending youth. He was experiencing a first youth, having to deal with adult like responsibilities as a kid.
> 
> I remember reading how he and brooke shields met and they only had one talk but really connected. Two kids that didn't get to be kids when they were kids.
> 
> View attachment 682532


Christ the look on her face is telling. I remember reading an interview where she described her first sexual experience at the age of 22. She freaked out and the guy had to calm her down and explain that they didn't do anything wrong. I don't think it was her first sexual experience to be honest. I think it was her first _healthy_ sexual experience. Her mom had her star in Pretty Baby, Blue Lagoon, and pose naked for Gary Gross (such an apt name) for God's sake. Who the fuck takes naked pictures of a little girl and isn't thrown in prison but instead given an art gallery? Fucking Hollywood man.



Sword Fighter Super said:


> What the hell were these kid's parents doing letting them hang out with an adult in the first place?
> 
> That idea alone should sound the pedo alarms.
> 
> Also, yes. He did it.


I wager he paid them so he had access to them. He was one of the richest men on the planet and he still earns money as a dead singer.



Volvo240 said:


> If he was alive it wouldn't have mattered. He would have been #metoo'd


I think honestly it is so overdone it would just get eye rolls. Whacko Jacko was a played out joke after South Park  made jokes about it.



Chewy Suarez said:


> Honestly, I think Micheal’s behavior is just a product of his extremely abusive upbringing. He was groomed to become the next big thing like the rest of his siblings, and there was absolutely no time for childish things like sleepovers, amusement parks, ice cream and teddy bears. That’s why shit like the Neverland Ranch and the sleepovers/hangouts with child actors exists: to get back a childhood he sadly never got the chance to have.
> 
> He’s a battered child inside the body of a mature adult who cracked immensely under the pressure of being a famous megastar a-la Princess Azula after or during the Bad! era(?). He just managed to get even more and more fucked up the more he spiraled into madness. And honestly, I really feel bad for the guy. He had no control with how he was raised and acted in a way he thought was right like a five year old, it just looked bizarre and pedophilic to outsiders looking in.
> 
> ...and this will age bad when the allegations turn out to be true.


He admitted that his brothers had sex in front of him while they were on the road and he would pretend to be asleep. That alone would warp any normal person. I have no doubt his father molested him. I bet his brother's did too.



RavenCrow said:


> I really don't know. I always felt he was under-developed mentally and certainly had boundary issues with children, but I also have a hard time seeing him doing anything sexually to anyone. Also as someone said previously, Wade Robson has reason  to go after his image now. Although when he was alive, he always defended him. Even at his trial, and spoke at his funeral. So it's really hard to say, for me.


People are complex little shits. Codependent relationships and abusive ones are just crazy to normal people observing them.



Xerxes IX said:


> He was definitely mentally stunted because of abuse and lack of a childhood but any non rich and famous person who was messed up in the head like this would be told to stay away from kids for their own good since they are unable to judge what's appropriate. He got enabled to the nth degree and it wasn't good for anyone.


Well yeah, he was rich. He literally could buy his way out of any trouble. Now though....yeesh. If he were still alive, he'd be screwed.


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## Bob's Vagene (Mar 4, 2019)

Judge Holden said:


> Plot twist. He was actually gangraped by the little boys he invited for a sleepover and this is what finally broke his sanity



It's true. I was one of those little boys.


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 4, 2019)

Maxliam said:


> Who the fuck takes naked pictures of a little girl and isn't thrown in prison but instead given an art gallery?


Well there's always dupont.










Think about this whenever you see another tedtalk about how the mature way to deal with pedofilia is getting them help.


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## Maxliam (Mar 4, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> Well there's always dupont.
> 
> View attachment 683669
> 
> ...


The guy just looks like a fucking kid diddler. If I saw that guy anywhere near my nieces and nephews, I'd tell him to get the fuck away before he gets shot.

I think the only treatment those pedos deserve is getting put in a guillotine. There is no cure for that shit but death.


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## drtoboggan (Mar 4, 2019)

Jackson did it. He's a homoxual pedo.


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## Fareal (Mar 4, 2019)

I want to believe Wade Robson. I really do.

But I don't. I can't specifically put words around why, but I don't know, retired professional intuition? I have seen a lot of true disclosures and the occasional false one and... I just don't buy it. I buy completely that Weird Shit went on, but actual offending, no I don't buy it.

Macauley swears blind it did not happen to him and he did not see it happen to anyone else. I believe him. Lisa Marie said it did not happen whilst she was around, and I believe Lisa Marie. She also says that like her father, he was surrounded by a lot of very dodgy people.

I will say this. I think at least some of the parents of the boys who spent time with him were hoping he would do something to the kids. I think if you don't believe there are parents who will whore their kids out, I have some people for you to meet.

I think MJ was a hugely fucked up individual and there was a lot of stuff that went on that was not appropriate. But there is a difference between being a headcase and a weirdo, and being an actual child rapist.


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## MAGICMAN!!! (Mar 4, 2019)

I genuinely think part of making our world safer is to avoid situations that make it easy for criminals to get away with things, this includes being a responsible victim and reporting asap as well as also not letting your kids go with a crazy Peter Pan syndrome prone moron. Evidence and forensics can only do so much, it honestly doesn't take much to moderate your kids till they hit puberty then tell them to report as soon as they feel assaulted. It can take responsibility to consent but takes nothing much to report.

That said he might not have done it and we don't know. That's the problem, really.


----------



## Bob's Vagene (Mar 4, 2019)

Fareal said:


> I want to believe Wade Robson. I really do.
> 
> But I don't. I can't specifically put words around why, but I don't know, retired professional intuition? I have seen a lot of true disclosures and the occasional false one and... I just don't buy it. I buy completely that Weird Shit went on, but actual offending, no I don't buy it.
> 
> ...



Cory Feldman also recently reitterated that mj never molested him and he never saw it happen to anyone else. The guy accuses almost everyone of being a pedo so that says something.


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## RumblyTumbly (Mar 4, 2019)

I don't know if Michael is guilty of molestation, but I will say that his behavior is wildly inappropriate for any adult and invited those kinds of accusations. 

No adult should be hanging out with children in their free time.


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## Quijibo69 (Mar 4, 2019)

I saw the first hour of the show last night. Those kid's parents are really stupid.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 4, 2019)

Didn't investigators find books of naked boys in Michael Jackson's home when his house was under investigation? Or am I remembering it wrong? That was a red flag for me, if that's true.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 4, 2019)

MAGICMAN!!! said:


> Weird question, how many siblings came before him? It's believed bisexuality/gayness in males tends to be likelier the more sex your parents have had and the more times they've had to give birth, there is a scientifically studied correlation. If he's the youngest of many brothers it at least means he's likelier to be aroused by other males than otherwise.


You're right, he had a lot of brothers before him. The entire family, except for maybe Janet is flipping creepy. They all try to talk like 5 year olds and blindly defend a man accused of touching 5 year olds.


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## TrippinKahlua (Mar 4, 2019)

I dunno. He became fast friends with the 1990 Child Star breakout.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 4, 2019)

Fareal said:


> Macauley swears blind it did not happen to him and he did not see it happen to anyone else. I believe him.


Pedophiles go to Asia to avoid detection. Some pedophiles molest their kid's friends, yet refuse to touch their own children. Macaulay was a child star with more credibility than some unknown kid , so I doubt MJ would be dumb enough to pull touch Macaulay.

The reasons I believe Safechuck & Robson.

The producers came to them
Their stories aren't fantastical feats of imagination like the Smollett case.
They're not trying to convince anyone, they have stated that no one will believe them. In fact, I'm sure they're getting crucified now by MJs equally disgusting fans.



Maxliam said:


> He admitted that his brothers had sex in front of him while they were on the road and he would pretend to be asleep. That alone would warp any normal person. I have no doubt his father molested him. I bet his brother's did too.


Yeah, not to mention his first regular gig was singing in a strip club in school nights.


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 4, 2019)

There was that time in 1993 when Latoya Jackson publicly called Michael a pedophile. Then she changed her tune years later and Michael forgave her.


----------



## Freddy Freaker (Mar 4, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> I think it was all revenge against him singing "jew me sue me" and "kick me kike me don't you black and white me".


Did he actually do that?


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Mar 4, 2019)

Freddy Freaker said:


> Did he actually do that?


Those are actually some of the lyrics of one of his songs. Specifically this one.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 4, 2019)

MAGICMAN!!! said:


> it honestly doesn't take much to moderate your kids till they hit puberty then tell them to report as soon as they feel assaulted. It can take responsibility to consent but takes nothing much to report.


I agree, but not every single situation is good touch bad touch. What happens when a possible bad touch in Michael's case is combined with bringing Robson and his family to the US with promises of being a megastar? What happens when you very much combine a possible bad touch, which can be spun into something else in the mind of a child with a divide and conquer scenario. What I mean by divide and conquer is Jackson pandering to the ego of each family member leaving the responsibility to continue such indulgence on a child's body. I'm sure these children wanted to keep Jackson happy, but they also wanted to keep their family members happy. It's a very complicated situation that isn't just someone's creepy, poor uncle or stranger touching their buttholes in the middle of the night. It's never that simple, which is why a lot of sex abuse victims don't come forward. As for policing children, predators always find a way around that, which is why you should never leave your children around anyone until they're at a more advanced age.


Also, the thing I never understood. Michael claimed he 'loved' his little friends, and he constantly bemoaned his lost childhood. If Michael loved his little friends, why did he intentionally introduce a ton of them to the entertainment industry like he did with Wade and Safechuck? That seems to be another element of abuse no one wants to talk about. Maybe MJ was reliving his trauma through these kids, a trauma which included molestation.

Anway, MJ could have easily told these kids and their families, "go home, and live a normal life, be a damn kid".


----------



## tehpope (Mar 4, 2019)

BTW, "They Don't Care About Us" was made after the first round of allegations. They were, along with a lot of HIStory, were made in response to MJ's state of mind after the investigation and media scrutney around his life ATT.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 4, 2019)

Just watched the first portion of the doc. All I have to say is that these allegations can't be invented out of thin air. They're that sick. MJ liked for these guys to rub his nipples. He would tongue them. He also liked for them to spread their cheeks open wide while he masturbated. Masturbation and oral sex were tamer parts of the allegations.


----------



## Hell (Mar 4, 2019)

He knew too much like Kennedy, Marilyn or Tupac. I don't have enough evidence, but my intuition tells me that MJ was innocent, and that the powerful people he angered fabricated rumors to destroy his life and get rid of him. As tinfoil as it sounds, he was pretty much the typical MK-Ultra victim. Even today the (Jewish) music industry gets rid of their own artists constantly.


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 4, 2019)

Hell said:


> He knew too much like Kennedy, Marilyn or Tupac. I don't have enough evidence, but my intuition tells me that MJ was innocent, and that the powerful people he angered fabricated rumors to destroy his life and get rid of him. As tinfoil as it sounds, he was pretty much the typical MK-Ultra victim. Even today the (Jewish) music industry gets rid of their own artists constantly.



He was going to reveal information about the music industry and Sony, wasn't he? This clip was always weird to me.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 4, 2019)

Occam's razor, people. Occam's razor.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 4, 2019)

RavenCrow said:


> Cory Feldman also recently reitterated that mj never molested him and he never saw it happen to anyone else. The guy accuses almost everyone of being a pedo so that says something.



Feldman also made up stories about Corey Haim about his abuse that has been debunked by Haim's friends and family. He's not a person to be trusted at this point when it comes to testimonies.


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## Dizzydent (Mar 4, 2019)

I watched the whole first part and some of it twice just to help myself really guage these guys body language because I'm always suspicious of metoo kind of stuff. These guys are my age and they had real honesty and they don't even seem like they have any ill feelings towards mj. That's very common because the abuse apparently started very young but it wasn't just a quick thing, it was their childhood so after rewatching it it was easy to see how they've compartmentalized it all as just something that happened and a part of life. There are also so many details that would take some sick savants to get all these entirely separate families to concoct such tales together and then the photo and audio and mail evidence is too much.

Also he is totally 100% textbook definition pedo. Most pedos don't ever feel like they were able to grow up or never had a childhood and feel vulnerable and therefore only feel comfortable in the presence of other vulnerable people and he got to live his youth vicariously through these little boys and discover his sexuality through these little boys in an environment where he didn't feel threatened not giving a fuck about the impact it was having on anyone else cause, as is so popular with lol cows, the whole "oh woah is me, you don't know my pain and so I act out" trumps everyone else's lives and feelings.


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## Pickle Inspector (Mar 4, 2019)

After watching the first part it’s pretty convincing, I didn’t realise Micheal spent that much time with the young kids, although the sexual stuff can’t be corroborated.

The testimony from the mother was weird in that she didn’t immediately see it as inappropriate Jackson wanted to sleep in the same room as her 7 year son, regularly spent hours talking with him on the phone and not even questioning things after Jackson said he wanted to take him away for a year and got mad when she said no, although I guess avarice and the desire for your child to be famous does blind some parents to the obvious.

Also reading what other people are saying if Jackson _was_ a paedo and did what was accused of then Macaulay Caulkin could just be a red herring in that he was already a child celebrity when Jackson met him so he’d know it’d be too risky to groom him and just befriended him.


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## Volvo240 (Mar 4, 2019)

Did anyone else nearly puke during the doc? Like last thing I need to hear is "Micheal Jackson+ 7 year old+ rim job"
Where's the Mr. Yuck react when you need one?


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## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> Feldman also made up stories about Corey Haim about his abuse that has been debunked by Haim's friends and family. He's not a person to be trusted at this point when it comes to testimonies.



People will believe what they want to believe.  If multiple child stars come out and say nothing happened, then he must've molested other kids because they were too high profile.  If Jackson pays off a family, it's proof of his guilt.  If an FBI investigation goes for 10 years and finds nothing concrete and Jackson is found not guilty, then he must've been too powerful. 

Basically you've already decided.  And almost nothing will convince you otherwise.


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## Nacho Man Randy Salsa (Mar 5, 2019)

Did Nick Bate do it?


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## W00K #17 (Mar 5, 2019)

> attractive as children



What fam?


----------



## CumDumpster (Mar 5, 2019)

Hollywood is famous for hiding their paedophiles.
When they attack a star as a paedophile, then it's highly likely that they're not and have/had success instead.
Let's not forget that Sony Music (the label Michael Jackson signed to) didn't defend the guy.  This, as there are lesser musicians that always get protected by their labels.

It comes down to two things.  Evan Chandler wanted fame and money, Sony wanted the Beatles and Elvis discographies for less than the price that Jackson was asking for them (There's also the fact that Jackson owned part of Sony at the time).


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 5, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> ust watched the first portion of the doc. All I have to say is that these allegations can't be invented out of thin air. They're that sick. MJ liked for these guys to rub his nipples. He would tongue them. He also liked for them to spread their cheeks open wide while he masturbated. Masturbation and oral sex were tamer parts of the allegations.



Plenty of liars have no lack of imagination. Squatcobbler.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

Medicated said:


> People will believe what they want to believe.  If multiple child stars come out and say nothing happened, then he must've molested other kids because they were too high profile.  If Jackson pays off a family, it's proof of his guilt.  If an FBI investigation goes for 10 years and finds nothing concrete and Jackson is found not guilty, then he must've been too powerful.
> 
> Basically you've already decided.  And almost nothing will convince you otherwise.



At this point I don't think he touched famous child actors but the ones who were left at his house and having sleepovers with him? It certainly looks that way.


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## BobsSpergers (Mar 5, 2019)

I watched the doc and gotdamn were they not kidding when they said it's hard to watch. I'm usually wary of this kind of stuff but I can't see any reasonable explanation for the weird shit he was constantly doing. Like that recorded 'interview' MJ had with Safechuck on the way back from Hawaii. Kid asks MJ what his favorite part of Hawaii was and MJ replies "Being with you." The only situation I can think of in which that would be a normal response is coming back from honeymoon with your fiance.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 5, 2019)

Lemmingwise said:


> Plenty of liars have no lack of imagination. Squatcobbler.


There's a reason your username has the word lemming in it.



BobsSpergers said:


> I watched the doc and gotdamn were they not kidding when they said it's hard to watch. I'm usually wary of this kind of stuff but I can't see any reasonable explanation for the weird shit he was constantly doing. Like that recorded 'interview' MJ had with Safechuck on the way back from Hawaii. Kid asks MJ what his favorite part of Hawaii was and MJ replies "Being with you." The only situation I can think of in which that would be a normal response is coming back from honeymoon with your fiance.


Safechuck seemed very fucked up from the entire experience. Can you believe, in exchange for licking his butthole, Michael only gave him jewelry and a wedding band.......WTF?


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Mar 5, 2019)

Come on, we all know he did. Is this a serious question? Yes, the obvious pedophile constantly being accused of similar acts of pedophilia by various different people is a pedophile.


----------



## GenderCop (Mar 5, 2019)

Graffiti canvas said:


> I've always felt that Micheal did do shit that crossed the line of sexual appropriateness with boys. But did it because of how fucked up in the head he was from literally being cannibalized body, soul and mind from a young age by his family and the media.
> 
> Micheal Jackson's personal life is a fucking train wreck and not always because of his own doing.


interesting Jermaine is sitting there in the video; he was the family heartthrob when they were all young.  

when the kids were on tour, Jermaine, Jackie & Tito would bring girls (plural, lots of them) into hotel rooms the 5 boys all shared.  little Marlon and Michael would... just watch.  

later, Marlon joined in.  the youngest, Michael - was left, and he _never_ joined in.  

he talked about it all his life, how he couldn't escape the noise, the nastiness of it - he said it made him feel dirty. he would be EXHAUSTED from strenuous stage-shows but still unable to sleep with all his brothers carousing & making sex-racket, since it was fairly constant.  he hated it & often said so.  one thing MJ loved when he got older & they started making serious money was he could finally get his OWN HOTEL ROOM.

Marlon never talked about it as traumatic. but Michael (so much younger) was _clearly traumatized_ by these sleeping arrangements.  

I think for the rest of his life he thought of *SEX* as some nasty, noisy, sleazy act of grownups, like his brothers in hotel rooms with women they randomly collected out of the audience.  by contrast, children are quiet, sweet, not a lot of sweating & carrying-on.  They are filled with wide-eyed wonder instead.  

in short, kids are diminutive & controllable, while those women w/Jermaine et. al. certainly were_ not._  in fact - these experiences are so different from what he had repeatedly witnessed, perhaps he didn't see perceive it as "sex" at all.  

But this is where I think his problems started.... & unfortunately, why I believe it is true.

loved the early motown records, some of the best pop music ever recorded.  the _pressure _on MJ might be compared to being an Olympic champion over a decade or more.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 5, 2019)

@GenderCop . Even in the documentary, the men talked about how he told them women are not to be trusted.


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## JULAY (Mar 5, 2019)

He definitely sodomized those children.


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## Lemmingwise (Mar 5, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> There's a reason your username has the word lemming in it.


Squatcobbler wasn't me calling you a name, it was refference to the squatcobbler scene.


----------



## Hellbound Hellhound (Mar 5, 2019)

The biggest thing that causes me to doubt the accusations against Jackson is the fact that pretty much all of his accusers have changed their stories at least once. Some have even profited handsomely from making their accusations, so it's not like there isn't a huge incentive to fabricate such a thing. Of course, this doesn't prove that Jackson didn't molest children, but it should at the very least call into question the veracity of the claims that he did.

Personally, I am of the view that Jackson was simply an easy target for such accusations, whether they happen to have any truth to them or not. His public demeanor was that of a deeply immature and psychologically damaged man, who was in all likelihood mentally incompetent. I doubt he was mature enough to understand how his friendships with children could be perceived as inappropriate by most people, and from his perspective, they probably seemed more like childhood sleepovers than anything else. This doesn't mean that nothing sexual or inappropriate went on during the time he spent alone with the children, but without evidence, it's immensely difficult to assess the credibility of such theories.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 5, 2019)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> ersonally, I am of the view that Jackson was simply an easy target for such accusations, whether they happen to have any truth to them or not. His public demeanor was that of a deeply immature and psychologically damaged man, who was in all likelihood mentally incompetent. I doubt he was mature enough to understand how his friendships with children could be perceived as inappropriate by most people, and from his perspective, they probably seemed more like childhood sleepovers than anything else. This doesn't mean that nothing sexual or inappropriate went on during the time he spent alone with the children, but without evidence, it's immensely difficult to assess the credibility of such theories.


Although the evidence is circumstantial, it's overwhelmingly negative in Michael's direction. Michael Jackson was an adult man when all this started. I'm not relieving the culpability of the victim's parents, but there is no reason a 7-year-old child should be sleeping in the bed with an adult male to whom he has no relation. Even if he had relation to this adult male, it would still be creepy as fuck if it wasn't the child's father. Michael Jackson was not given any puberty blocking shots, you can tell by his skeleton and facial hair, which means, he had the libido of an adult male.....that should be enough to give you pause. If I wouldn't around someone like OPL, I certainly wouldn't allow them around Jackson. 
I think these guys want money, yes, but I also believe they were fucked by a kiddy fiddler, who got them addicted to an expensive, jet setting lifestyle. It would be the same as accusing a heroin addicted, drug trafficking victim of trying to exploit her captors for heroin money. Sure, she wants the heroin money, but it doesn't mean she's not telling the truth...it just means she still has a craving for the tools used to exploit her. From the documentary, I got the distinct sense that these two men were warped by the abuse the probably suffered at Jackson's hands, and as a result, a huge part of them still seems to be stuck in that age when they were molested.


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

I'm watching the show now. As for the parents being stupid, I'm starting to think so many parents were dumb and naive in the 80's and early 90's. This was around the same time or just after the famous crime where Adam Walsh was killed by a serial killer because his mother left him with a bunch of kids in a mall.

That's a reason I think parents allowed their kids to be with Michael.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> Although the evidence is circumstantial, it's overwhelmingly negative in Michael's direction.



Well it's easier now, you can defame someone whos dead and have whoever you want say whatever you want.  "I once saw Michael Jackson take it up the ass from a donkey while doing a reach around on Mr. Bubbles."  Whos gonna stop you now?  Who can verify if it ever happened? Hey I'll pay you $10k if you make some shit up about Michael Jackson and appear in my documentary.  People will just eat it up.  It's free money.  Especially if you used to work for Jackson and now have a regular job.

Apparently Michael Jackson was simultaneously a criminal mastermind who beat the FBI at every turn over a decade, and also a mentally deranged man who was still a child in his own mind who needed to be drugged to hell just to get to his own trial.

As far as I see, people start at the "Michael Jackson diddled kids" then rationalize from there, working backwards.  Where in 20 years of rumors we've have nothing but words.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 5, 2019)

Medicated said:


> Well it's easier now, you can defame someone whos dead and have whoever you want say whatever you want. "I once saw Michael Jackson take it up the ass from a donkey while doing a reach around on Mr. Bubbles." Whos gonna stop you now? Who can verify if it ever happened? Hey I'll pay you $10k if you make some shit up about Michael Jackson and appear in my documentary. People will just eat it up. It's free money. Especially if you used to work for Jackson and now have a regular job.
> 
> Apparently Michael Jackson was simultaneously a criminal mastermind who beat the FBI at every turn over a decade, and also a mentally deranged man who was still a child in his own mind who needed to be drugged to hell just to get to his own trial.
> 
> As far as I see, people start at the "Michael Jackson diddled kids" then rationalize from there, working backwards. Where in 20 years of rumors we've have nothing but words.


If you have or had any children, would you let them sleep alone with a 30 year old man in the same bed or room for days possibly months on end?.....this is something Michael admitted.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> If you have or had any children, would you let them sleep alone with a 30 year old man in the same bed or room for days possibly months on end?.....this is something Michael admitted.



If I was the sort of person who thought I could get something out of him.  And if later I didn't get what I wanted, I could exploit the situation to get money from him, sure.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 5, 2019)

Medicated said:


> If I was the sort of person who thought I could get something out of him.  And if later I didn't get what I wanted, I could exploit the situation to get money from him, sure.


I never relieved the parents of responsibility. But, don't you think it was MJ's responsibility not to lay in bed with foreign children? This isn't like putting your child through a white trash slip and fall down at the Wal-Mart. MJ is not a slippery tile floor that can't be responsible for anything.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

I think this is more of a case of the parents being naive dumbasses who allowed their kids to hang out with a famous celebrity who was seen an eccentric creeper. If Wade was a dancer as a child, Michael could easily take the role as his mentor.
Just like the parents who allowed their daughters to hang out with R Kelly.

Edit: when I was a little kid Michael Jackson wasn't seen as weird, he was seen as cool. So that explains why Wade was so drawn to him at that time.


----------



## Niggernerd (Mar 5, 2019)

Fareal said:


> I want to believe Wade Robson. I really do.
> 
> But I don't. I can't specifically put words around why, but I don't know, retired professional intuition? I have seen a lot of true disclosures and the occasional false one and... I just don't buy it. I buy completely that Weird Shit went on, but actual offending, no I don't buy it.
> 
> ...


My sister knows more about this normie shit than me and she doesn't believe Wade at all.
Apparently he dated Mj's niece, cheated on her with Brittany Spears who at the time was dating Justin Timberlake, he also had brought his wife and daughter near MJ numerous times and he went to the funeral. If he really was molested why would he do that.
Also apparently he had a grudge with someone during a MJ tour?  Apparently he wasn't invited on but instead Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman were.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> I never relieved the parents of responsibility. But, don't you think it was MJ's responsibility not to lay in bed with foreign children? This isn't like putting your child through a white trash slip and fall down at the Wal-Mart. MJ is not a slippery tile floor that can't be responsible for anything.



We've pretty much established that MJ wasn't a mentally well man.  Just because someone is mentally unwell doesn't automatically make them a pedo, otherwise most of this site are pedos pretending not to be pedos.  And MJ was faaaaar too into showing everyone how enjoyed being a kid. 

Just because Willy Wonka is an eccentric recluse that wears a purple suit and owns a chocolate factory, doesn't mean he anally raped Charlie.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

Why did Michael Jackson have a "stash of pornography as well as sexual imagery featuring children, S&M and animal torture" though. 
I mean if there's anything that's going to push me into the "he's guilty" opinion, it'd be that.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 5, 2019)

Medicated said:


> Just because Willy Wonka is an eccentric recluse that wears a purple suit and owns a chocolate factory, doesn't mean he anally raped Charlie.


Willy Wanka is a fictional character. Michael Jackson is a real man, with real testicles, who slept with boys in his bed.......?


----------



## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

Niggernerd said:


> My sister knows more about this normie shit than me and she doesn't believe Wade at all.
> Apparently he dated Mj's niece, cheated on her with Brittany Spears who at the time was dating Justin Timberlake, he also had brought his wife and daughter near MJ numerous times and he went to the funeral. If he really was molested why would he do that.
> Also apparently he had a grudge with someone during a MJ tour?  Apparently he wasn't invited on but instead Macaulay Culkin and Corey Feldman were.



Yes the media avoids mentioning that soon after that, the allegations surfaced.  It muddies the narrative.



Oscar Wildean said:


> Why did Michael Jackson have a "stash of pornography as well as sexual imagery featuring children, S&M and animal torture" though.
> I mean if there's anything that's going to push me into the "he's guilty" opinion, it'd be that.



Did you ever actually read the police reports and compare them to the books listed in the tabloids?  If they were the truth, the Jury certainly would've been swayed don't you think?


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

I read about how he used to keep weird creepy books that his fans sent him and how he had children's underwear in his dresser. The article I read wasn't a tabloid.

Didn't Johnny Cochrane represent Michael? That guy got everyone off.


----------



## Healthyboy /s (Mar 5, 2019)

wut?
This is like an election in Africa


----------



## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> I read about how he used to keep weird creepy books that his fans sent him and how he had children's underwear in his dresser. The article I read wasn't a tabloid.
> 
> Didn't Johnny Cochrane represent Michael? That guy got everyone off.



Well like I said, people have made up their minds already.  I've pretty much said my piece.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

Medicated said:


> Well like I said, people have made up their minds already.  I've pretty much said my piece.



Minds can be changed. I used to think he was innocent.


----------



## Niggernerd (Mar 5, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> Willy Wanka is a fictional character. Michael Jackson is a real man, with real testicles, who slept with boys in his bed.......?


from what I was told they'd sleep in his bed and he'd sleep somewhere else (his room was like the size of a apartment) . The parents also stayed the night.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

Does this program mention the Martin Bashir "Life With Michael Jackson" documentary that was made when he was still alive? I don't remember much of it, but Michael didn't come off so well in it.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Mar 5, 2019)

> According to (Gordon) Novel, the Jacksons believed that it was all a grand conspiracy, that the accuser’s mother was being paid by Jackson’s enemies, who wanted to take control of his major economic asset, the Sony/ATV Music catalogue, which holds publishing rights to 251 Beatles songs and works by scores of other pop artists. Jackson claimed that the main conspirators were Sony Records; its former president, Tommy Mottola; and Santa Barbara County district attorney Tom Sneddon, the prosecutor, who also investigated Jackson in 1993. The catalogue is held jointly by Jackson and Sony, and Jackson’s share is mortgaged for more than $200 million. If Jackson defaults, Sony has first chance to buy his half as early as this coming December. (A Sony spokesperson said, “We are not going to comment on any aspect of this.”)
> 
> Jackson explained to Novel that the conspirators had introduced him to Al Malnik, a wealthy Miami attorney who had once represented Meyer Lansky. Malnik later helped Jackson refinance his loans. That was not what Jackson told Novel, however. According to Novel, Jackson said he was lured to Malnik’s house in Miami Beach by film director Brett Ratner to see a house so beautiful it would make him catatonic. He said that once he was there, however, Malnik, who Jackson claimed had Mafia ties, wanted to put his fingers in the singer’s business. Jackson also said he received a call from Tommy Mottola while he was there, which aroused his suspicion, but he did not tell Novel that he later put Malnik on the board of the Sony/ATV Music partnership. (Reached by telephone, Malnik scoffed at the idea of a conspiracy or of his having any Mafia ties. He said, “It does not make any sense.” Ratner confirmed that he took Jackson to Malnik’s house and that he considers Malnik a father figure.)
> 
> ...











						Michael Jackson was Innocent.
					

I have believed in Michael's innocence from the beginning but after doing some research of my own I am continuously finding more and more ev...




					annieisntokay.blogspot.com
				




Jackson was also paranoid about Jews (Hollywood is full of Jews so might not be all Jews)


> They suck them like leeches. They start out the most popular person in the world, make a lot of money, big house, cars and everything and end up penniless. It’s a conspiracy. The Jews do it on purpose.



To the point of well

https://nypost.com/2014/08/10/michael-jacksons-ex-maids-reveal-madness-at-neverland/


> “He also kept a dartboard in the foyer of his bedroom with pictures of DreamWorks founders Steven Spielberg, David Geffen and Jeffrey Katzenberg — who he believed had stolen his idea for the studio and even its boy-on-the-moon logo.
> 
> “Any of the children he played with who hit the bull’s-eye would get extra ice cream or anything else they wanted,” said Maid No. 3, who worked from 1996 to 1999. “He hated those guys with a passion. He was surprisingly very anti-Semitic. He’d lead some of the kids in chants: ‘Kill the bastards,’ and ‘Kill the bloodsuckers.’ ”


----------



## cuddle striker (Mar 5, 2019)

yes or no...I blame Joe


----------



## Medicated (Mar 5, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> Michael Jackson was Innocent.
> 
> 
> I have believed in Michael's innocence from the beginning but after doing some research of my own I am continuously finding more and more ev...
> ...



Spielberg, Geffen, and Katzenberg are considered in the entertainment gossip circles as the kingpins of pedophilia in Hollywood btw.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 5, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> Jackson was also paranoid about Jews (Hollywood is full of Jews so might not be all Jews)
> 
> 
> To the point of well
> ...



So that's why Steven Spielberg turns into an ugly claymation monster on Moonwalker. 


What if: Macaulay Culkin defended Michael because he was in denial from the abuse from his own father?
(Not that Michael abused him, but what if Culkin was warped because of his father.) If Michael did these things a kid like that is the perfect person to seek out because of the dysfunctional family. Same with Corey Feldman.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Mar 6, 2019)

ICametoLurk said:


> Jackson was also paranoid about Jews (Hollywood is full of Jews so might not be all Jews)


It's only paranoia if they're not really out to get you.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> Minds can be changed. I used to think he was innocent.



*People v. Jackson*_ (full title: 1133603: The People of the State of California v. Michael Joe Jackson) was a 2004–2005 criminal trial held in Santa Barbara County Superior Court in which American recording artist Michael Jackson was charged with molesting Gavin Arvizo, a 13-year-old boy. Jackson was indicted for four counts of molesting a minor, four counts of intoxicating a minor to molest him, one count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive, and conspiring to commit extortion and child abduction. He pleaded not guilty to all counts. The trial spanned approximately 18 months, from Jackson's arraignment on January 16, 2004 to June 13, 2005. The jury delivered a verdict of not guilty on all charges, including four lesser misdemeanour counts. 

In 2017, the documentary series The Jury Speaks (2017) covered the trial with four members of the jury.[43] Some reported receiving anonymous threats, and one said someone had loosened the wheels on her car.[43] All said they would acquit Jackson again, even in the wake of later allegations.[43] One juror said: "It was pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives on behalf of the family ... there wasn't a shred of evidence that was able to show us or give us any doubt in voting not guilty."[36] 

In 2013, choreographer Wade Robson, who had testified in the trial that Jackson had not molested him, filed a $1.5 billion dollar civil lawsuit against Jackson's estate,[12] claiming Jackson had molested him over seven years when he was a child.[39] In May 2015, judge Mitchell Beckloff dismissed the lawsuit, saying Robson had waited too long to make it.[39]

In 2013, another man who had spent time with Jackson as a child, James Safechuck, filed suit with the same lawyer as Robson. Safechuck claimed he realized he had been abused when he heard Robson's allegations.[12] He alleged that he had been sexually abused by Jackson over 100 times in a four-year period, and had been "brainwashed" into believing the incidents were "acts of love".[53] The lawsuit was dismissed by a probate court in 2017.[12]

Robson and Safechuck's allegations are the focus of a 2019 documentary film, Leaving Neverland.__[54]_

Why did they change their stories?








						What You Should Know About the New Michael Jackson Documentary
					

Recent allegations against the pop icon are disturbing. But do they hold up to scrutiny?




					www.forbes.com


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 6, 2019)

Medicated said:


> Well like I said, people have made up their minds already.  I've pretty much said my piece.


What does it matter? It's just a discussion.


----------



## Pickle Inspector (Mar 6, 2019)

From reading into it a bit the one woman who’d know the truth is Norma Staikos, she ran everything for Micheal and did everything in her power to keep him happy, those who accuse Michael say she helped procure children and made sure the staff stayed in line, keeping strict rules and procols for staff and guests - https://www.mjfacts.com/the-dark-dark-world-of-norma-staikos/

For example in the documentary she was the one who arranged the meetings between Michael and the kids as well as arranging the first class flights, hotel and limo rides for them and their parents.



Medicated said:


> *People v. Jackson*_ (full title: 1133603: The People of the State of California v. Michael Joe Jackson) was a 2004–2005 criminal trial held in Santa Barbara County Superior Court in which American recording artist Michael Jackson was charged with molesting Gavin Arvizo, a 13-year-old boy. Jackson was indicted for four counts of molesting a minor, four counts of intoxicating a minor to molest him, one count of attempted child molestation, one count of conspiring to hold the boy and his family captive, and conspiring to commit extortion and child abduction. He pleaded not guilty to all counts. The trial spanned approximately 18 months, from Jackson's arraignment on January 16, 2004 to June 13, 2005. The jury delivered a verdict of not guilty on all charges, including four lesser misdemeanour counts.
> 
> In 2017, the documentary series The Jury Speaks (2017) covered the trial with four members of the jury.[43] Some reported receiving anonymous threats, and one said someone had loosened the wheels on her car.[43] All said they would acquit Jackson again, even in the wake of later allegations.[43] One juror said: "It was pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives on behalf of the family ... there wasn't a shred of evidence that was able to show us or give us any doubt in voting not guilty."[36]
> 
> ...


In the documentary Wade says he was keeping it a secret as he believed he and Michael were in love and had a genuine relationship and the thing that changed his mind and was when he had his first child it made him realise how naive and innocent children are and that he was taken advantage of by an adult and basically had a mental breakdown.

There were also motives for him to keep quiet, such as his career of being the choreographer for top pop acts like N-Sync and Britney Spears which would have probally affected but that isn’t mentioned in the documentary.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 6, 2019)

Pickle Inspector said:


> In the documentary Wade says he was keeping it a secret as he believed he and Michael were in love and had a genuine relationship and the thing that changed his mind and was when he had his first child it made him realise how naive and innocent children are and that he was taken advantage of by an adult and basically had a mental breakdown.
> 
> There were also motives for him to keep quiet, such as his career of being the choreographer for top pop acts like N-Sync and Britney Spears which would have probally affected but that isn’t mentioned in the documentary.



So once again it comes back to allegations that have already been thrown out of court.  With a case that was found not guilty.  So basically, there's no convincing people is there, and there never will.  They want to believe Jackson is a pedophile, it's as simple as that.

Even if today those two accusers recanted, there would still be people saying they were paid off.  It's a futile discussion.


----------



## CervixHammer (Mar 6, 2019)

?


----------



## Homer J. Fong (Mar 6, 2019)

No healthy grown ass man wants to hang around little kids that aren't their own children. Little kids are disgusting.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

They probably changed their stories because they were having issues at the time or didn't want to deal with it. That's pretty common with victims and doesn't prove anything. Or they didn't want their families to know about it. One of them actually mentions this in the documentary. Or because Michael Jackson groomed them and they still loved him, which was also said in the show.

That's what happens when a grown person grooms a person. They still feel loyal. As for "he got off in court." So did Casey Anthony and OJ and everyone knows they're guilty.


----------



## Polyboros2 (Mar 6, 2019)

I'm in the camp that believes that MJ definitely crossed some boundaries, and did creepy things with kids that would make me not want to have mine around him, but he didn't sexually assault them.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> They probably changed their stories because they were having issues at the time or didn't want to deal with it. That's pretty common with victims and doesn't prove anything. Or they didn't want their families to know about it. One of them actually mentions this in the documentary. Or because Michael Jackson groomed them and they still loved him, which was also said in the show.
> 
> That's what happens when a grown person grooms a person. They still feel loyal. As for "he got off in court." So did Casey Anthony and OJ and everyone knows they're guilty.


Yes, and given that they're straight men, who admittatly thought they were in a romantic relationship with a male, pop icon. I believe them.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> Yes, and given that they're straight men, who admittatly thought they were in a romantic relationship with a male, pop icon. I believe them.



I believe people are out of touch with what goes on with CSA victims psychologically. This is all classic CSA behavior and how young people act when they get groomed. Example: facts being given to disprove claims that were made by the victims. Except there's one thing. CSA victims don't think logically because they're mentally messed up and won't react with logic in their behavior. They'll do weird things.


----------



## byuu (Mar 6, 2019)

He was a smooth criminal.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> I believe people are out of touch with what goes on with CSA victims psychologically. This is all classic CSA behavior and how young people act when they get groomed. Example: facts being given to disprove claims that were made by the victims. Except there's one thing. CSA victims don't think logically because they're mentally messed up and won't react with logic in their behavior. They'll do weird things.


Agree, I think that most people believe that child sex abuse is like a Lifetime original film where there's a clear boundary being violated. It's never as simple as someone's creepy uncle touching someone's penis or anus. I just don't understand how people can label these two guys as liars, when they don't have established history of lying like Corey Feldman. They did lie to protect someone they loved and someone who they thought loved them, but it was only that one time. It's not uncommon for a lot of victims to lie for their abusers. Some victims even think they enjoy being molested up until a certain point in their development. Just watch Mysterious Skin to get a more accurate portrayal of what child sex abuse looks like. I think the bigger problem is, people have no empathy until something like this hits closer to home.


----------



## Travoltron (Mar 6, 2019)

Like anyone that grew up in the '80s, I loved the Thriller album. Off the Wall and Bad were pretty great too. I would really wish it to be true that Michael was just this innocent childlike soul like his hype would like you to believe.

But I'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb to believe that. His behavior was so much like Jerry Sandusky, Jared Fogle, and that Jimmy Saville nonce... The way they each created these childrens' charities, surrounded themselves with kids to camouflage themselves as some sort of unassailable philanthropists... The same way pedophiles become priests or teachers.

Even after he got caught with that Jordan Chandler kid (and NO, Chandler _never_ retracted his statements about Michael molesting him), Michael still couldn't keep away from little boys, his desire was _that _strong and he got caught that second time.
I just pray that Michael croaked before he could lay his hands on those two boys he adopted. Because you just know they were designed to be his next playthings.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> Agree, I think that most people believe that child sex abuse is like a Lifetime original film where there's a clear boundary being violated. It's never as simple as someone's creepy uncle touching someone's penis or anus. I just don't understand how people can label these two guys as liars, when they don't have established history of lying like Corey Feldman. They did lie to protect someone they loved and someone who they thought loved them, but it was only that one time. It's not uncommon for a lot of victims to lie for their abusers. Some victims even think they enjoy being molested up until a certain point in their development. Just watch Mysterious Skin to get a more accurate portrayal of what child sex abuse looks like. I think the bigger problem is, people have no empathy until something like this hits closer to home.



I agree. And the reason they lied for Michael Jackson is because he hounded them to get them to testify for him. Those phone calls they have from Michael Jackson prove that he was way too close in these people's lives. If this was some nobody instead of a pop star who was doing this they'd get called out so fast.


----------



## Bob's Vagene (Mar 6, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> There's a reason your username has the word lemming in it.
> 
> 
> Safechuck seemed very fucked up from the entire experience. Can you believe, in exchange for licking his butthole, Michael only gave him jewelry and a wedding band.......WTF?



Ew. Can you imagine licking Michael Jackson's butthole?

That said, I've always thought he was a weirdo, but it's always been hard for me to picture him having sex. Like ever.  He seemed so immature and kid-like. But at this point the evidence really seems to be mounting (like he apparently mounted kids.. ?) .. and my opinion is unfortunately changing. I don't know if I believe everything, and I'm skeptical of Robson, but at this point it seems unlikely that he never did anything sexual with a child.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

The conservatives on Twitter are being funny over this. They openly call out Bryan Singer and every person who was exposed in An Open Secret and support other victims who have told "graphic stories" about a celebrity predator.
But with these guys they're in denial and they go on about how it's not enough and they try discredit the victims and they're going on about how Michael dindu nuffin.

They have to get off Michael's dick.

Wade Robson- I was skeptical too until the end when he was obviously visibly upset by the entire thing. It didn't feel like acting to me.


----------



## Travoltron (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> The conservatives on Twitter are being funny over this. They openly call out Bryan Singer and every person who was exposed in An Open Secret and support other victims who have told "graphic stories" about a celebrity predator.
> But with these guys they're in denial and they go on about how it's not enough and they try discredit the victims and they're going on about how Michael dindu nuffin.
> 
> They have to get off Michael's dick.


Can you show me some of these Tweets? This is hard for me to wrap my head around. Because I believe Singer's victims and I believe Jackson's. I don't understand why someone would believe one and not the other.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

Travoltron said:


> Can you show me some of these Tweets? This is hard for me to wrap my head around. Because I believe Singer's victims and I believe Jackson's. I don't understand why someone would believe one and not the other.



I mentioned Singer because these are the same conservatives who have talked about An Open Secret and Bryan Singer.
This guy:


			https://twitter.com/Zigmanfreud/status/1103110282216239105
		


This hardcore fan actually asking how a victim who was groomed by Michael Jackson would be in love with Brandi while also being in love with Michael. Also showing they have no idea how grooming works on victims. (They're not a conservative, but this tweet was so stupid I felt like including it.)


			https://twitter.com/youhavetorubit1/status/1103410575785295872
		


I don't think this one even watched the documentary. They mentioned why they defended Michael in the past.


			https://twitter.com/JoeDignan/status/1103421499501920258
		


Piers Morgan:


			https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1103203591286861824
		


Every Jackson defender this person has been retweeting and favoriting since the documentary aired.


			https://twitter.com/FroggyintheUK
		


I have to include this person who thinks that every CSA victim acts the same way when they describe what they've been through. 


			https://twitter.com/orourke_nicola/status/1103418880217747461
		


There's some conservatives mixed in there. I'm seeing a lot of "he was nice to me as a kid so he couldn't have been an abuser to those ones."

Yeah, other famous predators have done that too.


----------



## Bob's Vagene (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> I mentioned Singer because these are the same conservatives who have talked about An Open Secret and Bryan Singer.
> This guy:
> 
> 
> ...



That first tweet is really gross. Whoever that is obviously doesn't understand how child molesters work or is a child molester themselves (or just an idiot). I wouldn't even call it "in love with". It's more like being taken advantage of by an adult man and not being old enough to fully understand what's going on. 

The stupidity burns.. but then again some "fanboys" will go to ridiculous lengths to defend whoever they're obsessed with.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> The conservatives on Twitter are being funny over this. They openly call out Bryan Singer and every person who was exposed in An Open Secret and support other victims who have told "graphic stories" about a celebrity predator.
> But with these guys they're in denial and they go on about how it's not enough and they try discredit the victims and they're going on about how Michael dindu nuffin.



When people have to resort to personal attacks about someones motive for defending someone, then they've run out of arguments.

We have photos of Bryan Singer, at various gay themed parties, we have photographic evidence of him with teen boys(some underage) in provocative poses.





While the most provocative evidence the police were able to find with Michael was the paid for photoshoot for the 3T album cover.  No gay porn magazines, only porn magazines and pictures from websites of straight porn. Everything else is allegations.  The court wasn't able to find sufficient evidence over 18 months. Essentially you are saying you are better than a prosecution team that spent money to get anyone from anywhere to testify, did 2 unnaounced raids on the ranch.  The FBI has a huge report on Jackson. Which concluded there was nothing tangible. 








						Michael Jackson
					

Michael Jackson (1958-2009) was a famous singer and entertainer. Between 1993 and 1994 and separately between 2004 and 2005, Jackson was investigated by California law enforcement agencies for possible child molestation. He was acquitted of all such charges. The FBI provided technical and...




					vault.fbi.gov


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

I didn't make any personal attacks. I said they're being funny about because they are. I've seen these people call out Bryan Singer and Kevin Spacey and everyone An Open Secret on Twitter has called out. But they make mad defenses on Jackson. The only one I can think of is "this tweet is stupid" because it's making me think these people haven't talked to CSA victims. "Get off his dick" isn't personal either. They're coming off as fanboys now.

TBH there's creepy photographs with Michael with kids too.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 6, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> I didn't make any personal attacks. I said they're being funny about because they are. I've seen these people call out Bryan Singer and Kevin Spacey and everyone An Open Secret on Twitter has called out. But they make mad defenses on Jackson. The only one I can think of is "this tweet is stupid" because it's making me think these people haven't talked to CSA victims. "Get off his dick" isn't personal either. They're coming off as fanboys now.
> 
> TBH there's creepy photographs with Michael with kids too.



Let me put it this way.  People make comparisons to Jimmy Saville and Michael Jackson often.  Except for one minor detail.  Jimmy Saville was never charged with anything, he never went to court, he never had any settlements.  It's only after he died the truth came out.  His own family requested his Gravestone be smashed to bits.

I think in time Jackson will be exonerated, because people who are considered beloved around the world, who have never been suspected, never investigated, never charged, will die.  And then you'll find out where the real predators in Hollywood are.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 6, 2019)

We're going to have to agree to disagree at this point because we both have different opinions on this.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 6, 2019)

Medicated said:


> When people have to resort to personal attacks about someones motive for defending someone, then they've run out of arguments.
> 
> We have photos of Bryan Singer, at various gay themed parties, we have photographic evidence of him with teen boys(some underage) in provocative poses.
> View attachment 686765
> ...



Once again, Willy Wank and Bryan Singer weren't household names. They don't have defined images to protect. MJ was billed as a lady killer, so visiting gay clubs and hanging out with GAY jailbait would most likely tank his career. Doing something like this would have 1. Got him crucified by his own family 2. Crucified by his fanbase, which is largely homophobic. It's like comparing apples to oranges.....or apples to bleached oranges.
There was too much invested in MJ to have him photographed in an LGBT lifestyle, and even if he wanted to, I doubt he would publicize himself in such a way because the self-hatred instilled in him by his own father.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 6, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> Once again, Willy Wank and Bryan Singer weren't household names. They don't have defined images to protect. MJ was billed as a lady killer, so visiting gay clubs and hanging out with GAY jailbait would most likely tank his career. Doing something like this would have 1. Got him crucified by his own family 2. Crucified by his fanbase, which is largely homophobic. It's like comparing apples to oranges.....or apples to bleached oranges.
> There was too much invested in MJ to have him photographed in an LGBT lifestyle, and even if he wanted to, I doubt he would publicize himself in such a way because the self-hatred instilled in him by his own father.



MJ is probably the most investigated and critiqued celebrity of all time.  If 10 years after his death, all you have is a documentary with the allegations of two guys who tried to get several billion out of his estate after the fact.  And a Court by Jury acquitting him of all charges, AND the jurors saying in an interview they would still acquit MJ after those two men tried to sue.  Then I really have nothing more to say.  No matter what evidence comes to light exonerating him, you will believe he is a pedophile.

That's why I think the discussion is a futile one.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 6, 2019)

Medicated said:


> ll you have is a documentary with the allegations of two guys who tried to get several billion out of his estate after the fact.


LOL, he was worth 385 million at most at his death....now his estate is barely worth 500 million. Now who's doing their research?
R. Kelly was also found not guilty...does that mean he's innocent? The same thing with OJ. I think the biggest problem is some people can't accept they were taken by a pervert, who climbed trees and had a prosthetic nose.


----------



## Medicated (Mar 6, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> LOL, he was worth 385 million at most at his death....now his estate is barely worth 500 million. Now who's doing their research?


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 6, 2019)

Medicated said:


> View attachment 687205


That's not "billions" of dollars, and anyway, his shitty estate isn't worth over a billion dollars.
Either way, can you really put a price tag on your bleeding butthole. What amount makes it okay?
Just because they want money doesn't make them any less credible.


----------



## CervixHammer (Mar 7, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> TBH there's creepy photographs with Michael with kids too.


yeah, that photoshoot with James Safechuck (who would've been about 10 at the time) was one of the most unsettling visuals in the documentary.   and how cartoonishly evil Jacko was looking in this one:


Spoiler: not enough horrifying and islamic content ratings in the world


----------



## tehpope (Mar 7, 2019)

That birthday video for Jimmy was uncanny valley. The looks on MJ's face.


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 7, 2019)

CervixHammer said:


> yeah, that photoshoot with James Safechuck (who would've been about 10 at the time) was one of the most unsettling visuals in the documentary.   and how cartoonishly evil Jacko was looking in this one:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: not enough horrifying and islamic content ratings in the world
> ...



I felt so creeped out when that photo showed up. It looks so sinister. It looks like an ad for NAMBLA.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Mar 7, 2019)

Medicated said:


> That's why I think the discussion is a futile one.


Typically the response to this thought is to stop repeating yourself in the futile conversation, but endlessly repeating it isn't unheard of...

Yes, it is futile. You've said you're already convinced and no matter what, nothing will convince you otherwise.  Why are you trying to shut down the discussion? Just step out if you're done with it, everyone else is allowed to continue the conversation, even if you disagree.


----------



## vanilla_pepsi_head (Mar 7, 2019)

Hoo boy. I just spent most of my day off reading about the evidence that was brought up at the child molestation trials here, and I am now thinking he almost definitely did it. I still haven't watched the documentary and haven't read all the graphic details of what the guys said happened, but what changed my mind is all the porn and nudist mags they found in his house. The porn (some of it was kinda gross but mostly just Penthouse and shit) all had hundreds of fingerprints on it, but only the nudist mags were covered in semen. He was smart enough not to have anything technically illegal but he did have some books of "artful nudes" of young boys locked in his filing cabinet that were dodgy as fuck. So he would leave the regular porn around to get the kids curious about sex but the vintage nudist mags were his private fap material. Both giant flaming red flags that scream pedo.

Another page (it's the same blog but can't find it now) laid out how the accusers who were with him for longer amounts of time (i.e. groomed better) detailed more intimate sex acts than the ones he didn't spend as much time with - This perfectly fits the pattern of a molester going farther each time, and if they were all making it up that is an incredibly specific detail. Seems minor but that kinda clinched it for me.

It's already confirmed he had inappropriately close relationships with kids but whether there was a sexual component to it was the question, this shit pretty much confirmed it in my opinion. There's still a small degree of reasonable doubt (i.e. at the end of the day it's his word against theirs no matter how bad it looks) so I get why he wasn't convicted, but even most of the jurors interviewed were pretty sure he did it.


----------



## TrippinKahlua (Mar 7, 2019)

Has anyone asked Blanket if his dad did anything to him besides hanging him off a balcony?


----------



## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 7, 2019)

I agree that if the conversation is futile in your opinion, then I don't get why you keep arguing over it. Your point was made and maybe you should allow the rest to discuss it since you see it not ending well. 

Anyhow- I read that Emmanuel's mother stopped allowing Emmanuel to hang out with Michael after she saw Emmanuel  leaving Michael Jackson's hotel room. There's another thing I read about how Michael Jackson used to invite kids to hang out at his home and bring their family members. That's actually a common tactic that child predators do. Invite the kid and the parents so they'll agree to have the kid show up so they can get more access to the victim.


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## Unregistered sex offender (Mar 8, 2019)

I think he was a kid diddler, but probably didn't do shit with Macaulay Culkin because they both had the same type of stressful childhood due to their parents


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## Quijibo69 (Mar 8, 2019)

Kikestomper said:


> I think he was a kid diddler, but probably didn't do shit with Macaulay Culkin because they both had the same type of stressful childhood due to their parents



He probably did but Hollywood is a fucking creep show so Culkin wouldn't tell anyone about it.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 8, 2019)

At this points, kids shouldn't be involved with Hollywood, they should just CGI them into films and TV to avoid this crap. BTW, The Simpsons is pulling the MJ episode, and radio stations are pulling MJ's music. Too bad for the freeloading Jacksons. They should have put their money into Janet.


----------



## GloriousScarf (Mar 8, 2019)

All I know is Neverland is the exact type of place a rich nonce would live in.


----------



## Fareal (Mar 9, 2019)

I rewatched Leaving Neverland a couple of times after I last posted in this thread.

I think Safechuck is a victim. I think the part of his victimisation that has damaged him the _most_, long term, was the strength of the emotional bond he was encouraged to form with MJ at a formative time in his life. 

He loved MJ, then MJ dumped him to spend time with someone younger. That is... a loss that I don't think he has processed yet and in these circumstances, he may never be able to process.

My heart bleeds for the dude. That is real pain, there.


----------



## Bum Driller (Mar 9, 2019)

I, for one, don't believe that Michael Jackson's child-like demeanor was all that sincere. I don't live in the USA, but everything I've learned of your beautiful country makes me believe that no-one who is really as delusional as Michael Jackson presented himself to be, would even survive for long, or prosper in such environment. Insane people aren't always delusional and disconnected from reality - sometimes they are just inhuman and alien.


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## Deadwaste (Mar 9, 2019)

im not saying he did it. all im saying is


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## Joan Nyan (Mar 9, 2019)

Some kids say he molested them, some say he didn't. I don't believe that they could all be telling the truth-- their stories are all the same except for whether or not he touched them, and I don't believe he'd treat all the kids the same except in that one way. I don't believe he was smart, conniving, devious enough to think "well this kid I can get away with raping, but Macaulay's a different story". I think it has to be all or nothing, but I don't know which.


----------



## Plunkie (Mar 9, 2019)

He could've molested zero or a thousand kids for all I know

but that neverland documentary was some emotion-baiting faggotry that went over absolutely zero new findings


----------



## Terrorist (Mar 9, 2019)

He most likely did.

For the longest time I thought he was just kind of a damaged manchild who hung around kids bc genuinely saw himself as a kid, and couldn't have molested anybody bc he wasn't capable of adult sexuality. Then they found all the CP...


----------



## Super-Chevy454 (Mar 10, 2019)

The guys of Encyclopedia Dramatica have some good sense of humor with a photo of Michael Jackson. https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/File:Momo_jackson.png

Btw, I wonder if that video posted 10 years ago titled "Fuck Michael Jackson" will regain some popularity?


----------



## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Mar 10, 2019)

A short play as my reply to the question. 

Angel Interviewer: "Michael now your dead and beyond prosecution, did you actually touch those kids?"

Jackson's Ghost: "AHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEEHHHHEEEEEEE!!! CMON SHA!" (Grabs crotch aggressively)


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 10, 2019)

Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost said:


> A short play as my reply to the question.
> 
> Angel Interviewer: "Michael now your dead and beyond prosecution, did you actually touch those kids?"
> 
> Jackson's Ghost: "AHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEEHHHHEEEEEEE!!! CMON SHA!" (Grabs crotch aggressively)


Can you imagine hearing hee-hee under your bed and waking up with clown make-up around your butthole?


----------



## Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost (Mar 10, 2019)

Mariposa Electrique said:


> Can you imagine hearing hee-hee under your bed and waking up with clown make-up around your butthole?



That's like a regular friday night for me.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 10, 2019)

If anyone wants to watch Oprah's After Leaving Neverland Documentary. Here it is, if someone wants to archive it, please do. I can't. 



As well, there was an actor on the show who admitted he lied to his mother about sexual abuse to protect his abuser.
Also, I read up a bit about the Arvizio boy, and I'm kind of on the fence about his story, unless his parents knew what was going to happen.


----------



## Bob's Vagene (Mar 11, 2019)

Fareal said:


> I rewatched Leaving Neverland a couple of times after I last posted in this thread.
> 
> I think Safechuck is a victim. I think the part of his victimisation that has damaged him the _most_, long term, was the strength of the emotional bond he was encouraged to form with MJ at a formative time in his life.
> 
> ...



That's interesting because that's essentially what Corey Feldman has said about his own experience. He claims he was never molested, but the most traumatic thing was forming this strong bond with someone, and then that person basically ditches them for someone else. So even if he didn't molest anyone, which is doubtful, he at least fucked with kids mentally by taking them on as a friend, and then being done with them when he found someone new.

*note, I realize corey is also a nutjob and probably can't be trusted.. but it fits the story.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Mar 11, 2019)

I dunno if he dunnit, all I know is I wanna see a show have an MJ impersonator with a white man in blackface with whiteface over it. This would make me very happy.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 12, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> I dunno if he dunnit, all I know is I wanna see a show have an MJ impersonator with a white man in blackface with whiteface over it. This would make me very happy.









This will have to do.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Mar 13, 2019)

meh, C+ at best


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 15, 2019)

MJ Taking Safechuck Shopping For Jewelry

New video has surfaced validating Safechuck's story. In this video, MJ can be seen taking him shopping for jewelry.


----------



## Indrid Cold (Mar 15, 2019)

I'm amazed the poll is so split!

   Honestly, MJ was a child molester. Bombshell I know, but living south of L.A. put me in contact with some interesting people. One of the more interesting people (in regards to MJ) was a young lady who worked for an upscale Hotel chain and managed multiple sites around the So-Cal area. She happened to be working a more _chill_ remote site, when one of the upscale suites began calling for assistance.

   She and a male co-worker went up to the suite to be greeted by a massive body-guard who demands to know where the private elevators are located. She acknowledged there was a limited-access elevator that lead to the basement garage, but would need to know what was going on first and if someone was injured, then she needed to call 911. Upon hearing "_911_" the body-guard freaks and tells them it's a "_private medical situation_" not a fight. After a minute of arguing with my friend, the guard enters the room shutting the door behind himself, a discussion is heard and the body-guard returns with a small person hooded in a hotel blanket.

   "_I'm ok, but I need to see my private doctor and I can't ride in an ambulance_, _sorry_." (or something to that effect) is all the person says then goes back into the room. They're summoned into the suite and she sees droplets of blood from the bedroom, across the floor, to the kitchen where a drawer of towels was open. She enters the bedroom and there's a few small puddles of blood on a stripped mattress with the bedding wadded in the corner. The water is running in the restroom behind a locked door and after knocking a bit a voice says "_I'm fine_".

   She returns to the main room of the suite where the blanket-wrapped person, bundles in a chair and shamefully hides their face. "_Is that your blood_" my friend asks the hooded figure. "_Yes sorry. It's medical. I'm sorry_." My friend, not seeing any obvious victims and overwhelmed by everything tells them to pack and be ready to leave in ten-minutes.

   She leaves, finds co-workers to watch the main desk and returns to a packed and suspiciously overdressed trio waiting in the hall. The blanketed figure is now in a giant hoodie hiding his face and the mysterious bathroom person is a man wearing a hooded-sweatshirt as well but with some goofy looking large brimmed hat (I found this part most hilarious). After assisting with luggage, riding in an elevator with them, and waiting in a basement for 20min watching them, my friend was able to determine the large-hatted person was MJ and his little _bleeder_ friend was an adolescent boy.

   Two cars arrived, the first loaded the kid and a few bits of luggage and the other, everything else plus guard and MJ. Upon returning to the suite she found the mattress was only stained by what soaked through the sheets and the discarded sheets were completely destroyed with blood smears and droplets everywhere. The blanket was still draped over the chair in the suite where she had questioned the boy and there was blood on it where he sat.



Anecdotal, I realize, but my friend seems the adjusted sort. She was pretty factual when recounting the story to me and hearing her tell it a few times it was always consistent. Creepy shit fer sher.


----------



## John Titor (Mar 15, 2019)

I would like the universe to throw me a goddamn bone and believe he didn't.


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## tasty humane burger (Mar 15, 2019)

_Preface: I was a kid during the MJ trial in the 00's, the playground jokes and banter were already around MJ being a 'pedo' and ridic stories about how he had sex with bubbles so my opinion may be a little bias due to the media I grew up around. I've always been on the fence about if he 'did it' but in all honesty, I think he did._

Here's my thoughts on the whole thing. Sorry it's a bit of a shambles, I am too lazy to go through this and make it sound clever -

1. Although MJ was deeply disturbed and obviously abused as a child, I don't think that should be a get out of jail free card for him. It seems in a lot of popular discussion the fact he was a 'child in a mans body' is the justification for a lot of his actions, regardless of if he did molest children or not. It's still not right that he spend an abnormal amount of time with children and this was mostly just shrugged off because he was famous. As others have said in this thread, if he was just a regular guy, him being strange with children and acting the way he did would have him on some sort of register.  He clearly had some sort of mental disability but again, that does not acquit him from being guilty. There has been so many cases of people with mental health issues, autism and other special needs raping people. Being 'special' does not diminish your capacity to be able to rape. There was a case I read recently where a guy raped a woman and she accused him of rape via text and he told the court he didn't realise she accused him of rape because he couldn't read or write properly. He was found guilty.

2. I seen discussion points in this thread implying it's an oxymoron to assume MJ was slow but had the capacity to conceal this stuff. The people MJ abused loved and respected him and would take Jackson's (probably genuinely terrified) word about keeping their relationships a secret. Almost anyone can be abusive, although he was slow he was not braindead. People have already commented on how victims of abuse react to it so that goes without me repeating it. What I will add is Jackson was a powerful man. His family, reputation in the entertainment industry and on top of it all, his world class legal team would frighten anyone into denying sexual abuse allegations.

3. I'm unsure where I stand on if he sexually abused Macaulay Culkin/Core Feldman/other child stars. I am compelled to think he probably did abuse them but because the backlash from Hollywood and Jackson's lawyers hit them worse than Robson and Safechuck as they were more successful. Feldman and Culkin are both deeply disturbed adults - they may either be in the same kindof denial about the abuse in the same way as Robson and Safechuck were. Although Feldman speaks openly about the abuse of child stars, although admittedly I know little about what his accusations are, the abuse MJ would have given him would have probably appeared as 'love' as opposed to anything nasty. Although I can see the other side too, if MJ was a child molester staying clear of touching his big celebrity friends would be a clever idea. As disgusting as it sounds, I bet paedophiles aren't attracted to every child they see.

4. THE PARENTS. OH my GOD the parents. I agree they were also emotionally abused by MJ, regardless of if he was a molester or not. B U T I can't believe in the early stages that they were just so happy to let their kids fuck off with him. After they knew him a while, yeah, I can see that because by then he had their trust and knew them personally. I think I just have a weird thing about 'stage moms' and pushy parents, it never seems to be for the kids but for the pride of the mothers. It makes me feel very ill to think parents put $$$ over their kids health and wellbeing. Robson's mother gave me chills right at the very start when she actively searched for a number for MJ when she knew they'd be going to America. IIRC, they family were going over because her Wade and his sister were doing some weird dance thing at Disney, which I think just shows what type of person she was as a mother. Nobody but the accused should be blamed for abuse but it's scary to think if the family were a bit less naive that things could be so different.

On a slightly related but funny note I have a great story about a family's interaction with MJ -


Spoiler



In the early 90's, before I was born a family member was security at an MJ gig in the UK. I don't know the ins and outs but said family member managed to score my parents in because it was the 90's and security wasn't as tight at these types of things.

The family member on security got to guard his room. I don't think he met him but he did see MJ. Apparently MJ was a complete neat freak and they had instructions not to touch anything in his room. Almost everything was covered in cling film.

My family member, being the disgusting working class British bloke that he was apparently did a shit in his toilet and _didn't_ flush it.


----------



## Rabidcolombian (Mar 15, 2019)

I can't believe the amount of people on this thread who think it's true simply because Michael was a weird guy..

And _yes_, Michael was weird. Yes, its creepy. But none of you are bringing actual evidence, logic, reason or facts to this. Just your gut and the account of people whose stories don't add the fuck up. Someone is not guilty of something just because he looks the damn part to you. Read into the damn case instead of saying, "I think he did it because he slept in bed with kids." 

I used to seriously think he was guilty too, but then actually researched the damn case for days, listening to hour long podcasts about the case. Do yourself a favor and just EDUCATE yourself on it. I'll link the best videos that give facts. And one poster said they found CP at his ranch? Not true. They found NOTHING. Please, educate your damn selves. And dont give me that_ I knew someone I LA who can confirm it!  _Give me a break.


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## Indrid Cold (Mar 16, 2019)

Rabidcolombian said:


> Please, educate your damn selves. And dont give me that_ I knew someone I LA who can confirm it!  _Give me a break.


Admittedly _anecdotal_, but whatevs. Well, don't tear your MJ poster off the wall just yet, but maybe you should read on...



John Titor said:


> I would like the universe to throw me a goddamn bone and believe he didn't.



Here's your bone:
michael-jackson-photos-naked-children-pornography-neverland-ranch-police-records-leak

items-discovered-police-michael-jackson

This part seemed oddly familiar:

"*Evidence Item #510*_. Disneyland plastic bag containing underclothes and bloodied bed linens._"



Rabidcolombian said:


> "_They found NOTHING._"


 ...


----------



## Pickle Inspector (Mar 16, 2019)

People have found old news footage of Michael buying rings with a young boy:


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## Recoil (Mar 16, 2019)

Did he do it?
I have always felt the answer was no, but think I'm biased because his music's been important to me since childhood. How can I judge a person who's been a personal hero so long? I don't know if I could claim impartiality towards any creator who'd made something I'd found so special.


----------



## Bob's Vagene (Mar 16, 2019)

Recon said:


> Did he do it?
> I have always felt the answer was no, but think I'm biased because his music's been important to me since childhood. How can I judge a person who's been a personal hero so long? I don't know if I could claim impartiality towards any creator who'd made something I'd found so special.



My problem too. Also, in interviews, he seemed so nice. So nice that you WANT to believe that he's this pure, genuine, caring guy who just wants to help everybody. If that were true, that'd be awesome... because it's almost like no one like that really exists...

So when you hear he's doing one of the worst things ever, you don't want to believe it. At least that's how I felt back in the day.

Also he touched my butthole.


----------



## Sinner's Sandwich (Mar 16, 2019)

I also have a story about how I met Michael Jackson:

I saw Jackson with a little boy at a store in Los Angeles in 2000. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.

He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”

I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “hee! hee! hee!” and closing his gloved hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him grab his crotch as I walked off.

When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to moonwalk out the doors with like fifty packs of condoms in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.

When she took one of the packs and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each pack and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by heeheeing really loudly.


----------



## The tired cat (Mar 16, 2019)

Honestly, I mostly even wonder what's the point of this documentary, I cannot shake the feeling only reason this was even made is because of that Fyre Festival documentary on Netflix doing good. The dude has been dead for nearly a decade now, his reputation (outside of music) hasn't always been stellar to begin with and now we suddenly get these two dicksnots popping out with their "allegedly" stuff, with the word itself becoming a bigger buzzword than "Nazi". Quiet frankly, it seems they wanna pull their own idea of "Me too" horseshit and rake in some cash while at it. If they are being honest and it happened, well move the fuck on you twats, to repeat myself: the dude is dead and worm food by this point. Unless he somehow rises from the underworld as Spawn or Ghost Rider, I'm pretty sure he cannot harm anyone.


----------



## You're Next (Mar 16, 2019)

Involving yourself with other peoples' children as mentor ought not cast aspersions.

Having a sleepover with others' children ought prompt investigation into shady parental behavior.

Receiving money for allowing a man-child to host your children for the night without your presence reeks of prostitution.

The homosexual inclination to pederasty is well known.

MJ behavior is at best problematic.


----------



## Rabidcolombian (Mar 16, 2019)

Indrid Cold said:


> Admittedly _anecdotal_, but whatevs. Well, don't tear your MJ poster off the wall just yet, but maybe you should read on...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Um, yeah, except that police report you linked? That report was found to be utter bullshit

https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...state-blasts-false-pornography-report-180936/

And we know it's fake because that same police report on a website lists Radar Online as the leaked source.

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

Curiously if you try to go to the original link, it's broken. Why is that I wonder?

 Same website now admits it was a fuck up

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/09/06/radar-online-pulls-mj-articles/

Better luck next time


----------



## Truthspeaker (Mar 16, 2019)

TrippinKahlua said:


> Has anyone asked Blanket if his dad did anything to him besides hanging him off a balcony?


Now that's a lie.

Michael Jackson wasn't Blanket's dad. Some white guy was. Just like his other "kids".

For all we know, Blanket's real father might never've even been accused of a felony.



The tired cat said:


> Honestly, I mostly even wonder what's the point of this documentary, I cannot shake the feeling only reason this was even made is because of that Fyre Festival documentary on Netflix doing good. The dude has been dead for nearly a decade now, his reputation (outside of music) hasn't always been stellar to begin with and now we suddenly get these two dicksnots popping out with their "allegedly" stuff, with the word itself becoming a bigger buzzword than "Nazi". Quiet frankly, it seems they wanna pull their own idea of "Me too" horseshit and rake in some cash while at it. If they are being honest and it happened, well move the fuck on you twats, to repeat myself: the dude is dead and worm food by this point. Unless he somehow rises from the underworld as Spawn or Ghost Rider, I'm pretty sure he cannot harm anyone.


Jacko's reputation has improved more in death than Mao Zedong's. No one in the MSM talked about him being a pedo since he died and went to Hell, until now.

And while there's other dead pedos who aren't getting raked over the coals; such as gospel-music legend Reverend Dr. James Clevaland, who was sued for infecting an underage concubine with HIV; the Clevealand Estate isn't one of the most profitable dead-celebrity institutions of all time.

And that money -- as myself, @MirnaMinkoff, and many others have pointed out -- is going to most of the same people who covered for Jacko's many, many rapes.



Rabidcolombian said:


> Um, yeah, except that police report you linked? That report was found to be utter bullshit
> 
> https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...state-blasts-false-pornography-report-180936/


Except the Estate isn't blasting the Santa Barbara County Police. They're blasting _Radar Online_.

_Radar Online_ weren't the ones who discovered bloody underwear; a several-hundred dollar Larry Stevens gay sex manual named _Man: A Sexual History of Man_ that isn't available for viewing on the Internet, nor for purchase on Amazon; legal naturist magazines filled with naked boys that only exist for the same reason magazines like Jaybird existed before the '70s; straight pornography designed to arouse curiosity and eventually horrify the discoverers, from _Playboys_ to the brown showers tape found in Jacko's bedroom; and, assuming you clicked on the last link, the most damning of all, Jacko's semen was found only on the naturist magazines featuring little boys.

But you didn't do that, because you don't care about the truth.



Rabidcolombian said:


> And we know it's fake because that same police report on a website lists Radar Online as the leaked source.
> 
> https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/


But the Estate isn't taking action against the SBCP, they're taking action against _Radar Online_.

If any of the things I listed were planted by the cops who actually did the raid, the SBCP would be fucked harder than Eric Trump's mouth at age eleven.


----------



## Mariposa Electrique (Mar 16, 2019)

Rabidcolombian said:


> I can't believe the amount of people on this thread who think it's true simply because Michael was a weird guy..
> 
> And _yes_, Michael was weird. Yes, its creepy. But none of you are bringing actual evidence, logic, reason or facts to this. Just your gut and the account of people whose stories don't add the fuck up. Someone is not guilty of something just because he looks the damn part to you. Read into the damn case instead of saying, "I think he did it because he slept in bed with kids."
> 
> I used to seriously think he was guilty too, but then actually researched the damn case for days, listening to hour long podcasts about the case. Do yourself a favor and just EDUCATE yourself on it. I'll link the best videos that give facts. And one poster said they found CP at his ranch? Not true. They found NOTHING. Please, educate your damn selves. And dont give me that_ I knew someone I LA who can confirm it!  _Give me a break.


MJ fans are the worst. 

Here's the reasons he didn't do it, according to them.


He's black
He's God
He's a child himself
He liked women
He was too talented
He was too slow
He could moon walk


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## Raging Capybara (Mar 16, 2019)

> Truthspeaker is in the room


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## Truthspeaker (Mar 16, 2019)

Raging Capybara said:


>


Make fun of me all you like.

I may be a sperg. But one day, I'll be dead, and Michael Jackson'll still've been a chomo (or "nonce", as they prefer on the other side of the Atlantic).


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## Vega (Mar 16, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> Make fun of me all you like.
> 
> I may be a sperg. But one day, I'll be dead, and Michael Jackson'll still've been a chomo (or "nonce", as they prefer on the other side of the Atlantic).



Someone seems a tad obsessed. At least Michael Jackson fans are obsessive because they like Thriller or whatever.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Mar 16, 2019)

So I watched the whole thing. It's pretty damning. I have no doubt that MJ did it.

But I also shaking my head because how stupid his victims are. They had tons of opportunities to come forward. But they did it when it was already to late. Fucking idiots.


----------



## iRON-mAn (Mar 16, 2019)

Sinners Sandwich said:


> But I also shaking my head because how stupid his victims are. They had tons of opportunities to come forward. But they did it when it was already to late. Fucking idiots.



This is literally why Robson's case got thrown out. He missed the deadline.


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## Truthspeaker (Mar 16, 2019)

Sinners Sandwich said:


> So I watched the whole thing. It's pretty damning. I have no doubt that MJ did it.
> 
> But I also shaking my head because how stupid his victims are. They had tons of opportunities to come forward. But they did it when it was already to late. Fucking idiots.


Four of them didn't wait 'til it was too late, though Terry George's accusation was nowhere near as serious as the other three who sa ccused while Jacko was alive.

That's not the worst it could be. No one's stepped forward to accuse Dan Schneider of anything, even though one of his rumored victims allegedly had his baby. No one's stepped forward to accuse Ryan Murphy of inappropriate behavior even after two _Glee_ castmembers committed suicide. No one's stepped forward to accuse Onision of anything even after all the women in his life are turned into anemic pregnancy-fetish targets, and that one time he admitted to killing and eating his pet.

But Jacko had four accusers during his lifetime, three of whom alleged rape. That should never be glossed over, but for ten years it was.


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## Medicated (Mar 16, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> That's not the worst it could be. No one's stepped forward to accuse Dan Schneider of anything,



According to the "there are so many accusers" school of thought, then Schneider should be innocent, no ones accused him of anything.  That's why trial by mob doesn't work.


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## Rabidcolombian (Mar 16, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> Now that's a lie.
> 
> Michael Jackson wasn't Blanket's dad. Some white guy was. Just like his other "kids".
> 
> ...



Did you even read my freaking links? No shit the estate isn't suing the SBCP because the SBCP also acknowledged the damn report was fucking fake. Read the damn thing again - or better yet, I'll put the best part here for you:

_"Some of the documents appear to be copies of reports that were authored by Sheriff's Office personnel as well as evidentiary photographs taken by Sheriff's Office personnel interspersed with content that appears to be obtained off the internet or through unknown sources," a representative of the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department said in an email to Billboard. "The Sheriff's Office did not release any of the documents and/or photographs to the media. The Sheriff's Office released all of its reports and the photographs as part of the required discovery process to the prosecution and the defense." The rep continued: "The documents with a header titled Sheriff's Department that contain a case number appear to be Sheriff's Office documents. The photos that are interspersed appear to be some evidentiary photos taken by Sheriff's investigators and others are clearly obtained from the Internet."

https://www.billboard.com/articles/...ichael-jackson-alleged-pornography-collection_

Not to mention the blog you linked me (a fucking blog??? Really?) that talks about the endless child porn found in MJ's house cites the police report I JUST proved was fucking false.

And I don't care about the truth? What the fuck gives you that idea? Because I'm defending MJ? I don't even give a shit about him. Sure, I like his music, but if you think I'm defending him because I'm a rabid MJ fan, you're incredibly mistaken.  This could've been ANYONE else and I'd still have the same damn opinion.  The only reason I'm passionate about it is because I've been fucking lied to by the MSM by what really happened and stupid idiots on this thread keep sayjng, "I believe the victims are telling the truth." That's practically ALL anyone here is going by. Their gut and fucking stories we HAVE to rely on to be true

The Leaving Neverland movie gave us nothing but stories from people and omitted any facts or evidence. People were pissed off as shit during the Kavanugh hearing because it was obvious Ford was lying by the facts and evidence presented, But in this same situation, people are just believing the victims with the same listen and believe bullshit. Why? Why is this case different? Because he was a weirdo? Well, you're right. He IS a weirdo. And he might've been an ass for all I know. But you can't accuse someone guilty of a crime because of it. The same principles MUST apply.

If tomorrow another victim came out and said MJ touched him and gave solid proof and evidence to prove it happened without a shadow of a doubt, of course I would believe him. But all of the "victims" who ever accused MJ DON'T have that. ALL of their stories are sketchy as shit and too many people like you believe tabloid headlines that lie in order to get clicks.

Give me a damn break.


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## Truthspeaker (Mar 16, 2019)

Medicated said:


> According to the "there are so many accusers" school of thought, then Schneider should be innocent, no ones accused him of anything.  That's why trial by mob doesn't work.


Innocent doesn't mean "didn't do it". OJ Simpson, legally, is innocent of those two homicides that had his DNA over it. Lizzie Borden, legally, was innocent of murdering her parents; even though there were never any other serious suspects, and she had more motive snd better oppurtunity to do it than anyone, and she did a whole bunch of shit at the time that resembled evidence disposal.

Likewise, Dan Schneider, at this point, is hearsay. But there's no reason to think a guy whose protégés all ended up going insane, dropping out of showbusiness, or both; whose material has always been loaded with hot teen-and-tween girls doing fetish jokes; and who once asked thousands of fans of _Sam and Cat_, most of whom are underage girls, to send him pictures of their feet; should not be investigated by the proper authorities, nor assumed to be above board by the general population.

And for the record, I don't believe in the "so many accusers" school of thought. I believe in actual investigation, from rals sources, not PR teams.



Rabidcolombian said:


> Did you even read my freaking links? No shit the estate isn't suing the SBCP because the SBCP also acknowledged the damn report was fucking fake. Read the damn thing again - or better yet, I'll put the best part here for you:
> 
> _"Some of the documents appear to be copies of reports that were authored by Sheriff's Office personnel as well as evidentiary photographs taken by Sheriff's Office personnel interspersed with content that appears to be obtained off the internet or through unknown sources," a representative of the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department said in an email to Billboard. "The Sheriff's Office did not release any of the documents and/or photographs to the media. The Sheriff's Office released all of its reports and the photographs as part of the required discovery process to the prosecution and the defense." The rep continued: "The documents with a header titled Sheriff's Department that contain a case number appear to be Sheriff's Office documents. The photos that are interspersed appear to be some evidentiary photos taken by Sheriff's investigators and others are clearly obtained from the Internet."
> 
> ...


The SBCP just said "the photos intersperced", not "the porography and erotica found in MJ's home that we catalogued didn't exist".

Even the Razorfist videos where he says the items were only vaguely pedophilic doesn't involve actually looking at the books which were found in MJ's home. Here's one of 'em: its existence was discovered in the raid, reconfirmed in the trial, and you can buy it yourself if you have $400 to fork over. But before you do, ask yourself this:


Why is the book so out of print that it's selling for $400?
Why aren't photos from this book easily available to view online?
Why hasn't the book been reprinted?
Why does this book only have a first edition?
Why do the photos Lloyd R. Stevenson displayed as excrepts in his Amazon review (please don't click on this if you live in Canada, or a country with similar laws) of the book look like the kind of photos seen in naturist magazines of adults before legalized porn killed the market in the US?
Why would a fan give Michael Jackson a several-hundred dollar out-of-print book filled with pictures of naked boys?
Why did Michael Jackson own several other out-of-print, quite-expensive books filled with pictures of naked boys?
And most important: Do you live in a place where it's legal to own this book? (You'd definitely get in trouble in Canada for owning _The Boy: A Photographic Essay_)
As for the other books I've cited: while I advise against doing this, since the SBCP have much more serious issues to deal with than Internet slapfights, you can call them Mon-Fri, 8:00-5:00 California Time, to ask them more about the porno and drugs that were seized in the '03 raid. They're not the Skull and Bones Society.


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## Medicated (Mar 16, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> And for the record, I don't believe in the "so many accusers" school of thought. I believe in actual investigation, from rals sources, not PR teams.



And there was, 10 years of investigation, 2 raids, an FBI report, and an 18 month trial.  He's the most investigated man on the planet.  So, how did he get away with it?  How did he fool everyone?


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Mar 16, 2019)

I can't believe this thread is still going on.


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## Truthspeaker (Mar 16, 2019)

Medicated said:


> And there was, 10 years of investigation, 2 raids, an FBI report, and an 18 month trial.  He's the most investigated man on the planet.  So, how did he get away with it?  How did he fool everyone?


He didn't fool everyone. Most people have thought he was guilty since '93, and he bought himself outta trouble for $20 mill, in a case that didn't even involve a celebrity accuser. Most people just stopped talking about it after he died, kinda like what happened in Russia after the 9/'99 bombings even after a literal Kremlin Commie accidentally outed the whole thing as the work of the FSB before the bombings were even finished.

Bill Cosby never settled for anything resembling that sum, and he was convicted. Jimmy Saville never settled for anything resembling that sum, and fewer people pretend he's innocent than they pretend with Cosby, even though he died never even going to court.

OJ Simpson is the only American, or even Anglosphere, celebrity I can think of who went through something similar to Jackson. Except that was 'cause OJ lost the civil trial, after being found innocent. MJ coughing up what OJ had to pay for losing his civil trial, when he had less evidence against his guilt than Jacko, doesn't make sense unless his lawyers told him he couldn't something that'd be worse than what the jury'd give 'im. How many things can you think of worse than losing $20 million dollars? That's private-island money to everyone who isn't a billionaire nowadays, let alone '91, and Jacko was neither a billionaire, nor did he lead a frugal lifestyle.


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## iRON-mAn (Mar 16, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> How many things can you think of worse than losing $20 million dollars? That's private-island money to everyone who isn't a billionaire nowadays, let alone '91, and Jacko was neither a billionaire, nor did he lead a frugal lifestyle.



Forbes has consistently rated Jackson as the highest earning dead celebrity in both 2016 and 2018. $20 mill is chump change.


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## Truthspeaker (Mar 16, 2019)

iRON-mAn said:


> Forbes has consistently rated Jackson as the highest earning dead celebrity in both 2016 and 2018. $20 mill is chump change.



Michael Jackson was half-a-billion dollars in debt before he died.

Grooming and bribing underage boys isn't cheap. Especially when you've ruined your health with plastic sugery, an obvious eating disorder, and a shitton of powerful drugs; and thus start no showing important gigs more often than you arrive, not to mention repeadedly ruining your reputation by continuing to hold sleepovers with boys between eight and sixteen.

The Estate only turned it around because Jackson was no longer alive to hang out with Justin Bieber and Chris Colfer and anyone else whose parents would be stupid enoigh to hang out with Michael Jackson.


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## iRON-mAn (Mar 16, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> Michael Jackson was half-a-billion dollars in debt before he died.



This is kind of misleading, since it's not like Jackson wasn't still making money, he was just overspending. He routinely spent $15-30 mill on jewellery and artwork and whatever else took his fancy. He also refused to sell Neverland, even after he was no longer living there and it had gone into foreclosure. That alone should tell you that $20 mill wasn't something Jackson considered a lot of money, even if he should have. But to put it even more in perspective, the 'Ghosts' short film made for the music video, written by Stephen King, had a budget of $15 mill, all of which came straight from Jackson's pocket, and the real figure is probably much higher, considering marketing and promotion.  And 'Ghosts' made zero profit. The fact is Jackson just wasn't that smart with money and probably wouldn't have had a second thought about losing $20 mill.


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## TrippinKahlua (Mar 16, 2019)

_Michael Jackson still was black._


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## Rabidcolombian (Mar 17, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> The SBCP just said "the photos intersperced", not "the porography and erotica found in MJ's home that we catalogued didn't exist".



....
Can you read? I'll put this here again.

_Some of the documents *appear *to be copies of reports that were authored by Sheriff’s Office personnel as well as evidentiary photographs taken by Sheriff’s Office personnel interspersed with content that appears to be obtained off the Internet or through unknown sources.* The Sheriff’s Office did not release any of the documents and/or photographs to the media. The Sheriff’s Office released all of its reports and the photographs as part of the required discovery process to the prosecution and the defense.*_

The SBCP did find the books you listed, but the report you cited is NOT where that offical info is from.



> Even the Razorfist videos where he says the items were only vaguely pedophilic doesn't involve actually looking at the books which were found in MJ's home. Here's one of 'em: its existence was discovered in the raid, reconfirmed in the trial, and you can buy it yourself if you have $400 to fork over. But before you do, ask yourself this:
> 
> 
> Why is the book so out of print that it's selling for $400?
> ...




All the questions you're alluding to here is basically why is this book so difficult to find? _Obviously because it's CP!!! _

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it's not. Plain and fucking simple. If it were, why the hell would this be allowed on Amazon.com? Is CP this easy to get? Fact of the matter is, whether it makes you uncomfortable or not, the book still doesn't fit the legal criteria for CP by American law which is why it was disregarded in the trial.

_"Former Santa Barbara Senior Assistant District Attorney Ron Zonen, who helped prosecute Jackson and recalls viewing the actual documents tied to the case, tells PEOPLE that law enforcement did discover adult pornographic magazines and videos, though nothing constituting child pornography. There were all kinds of conventional porn magazines,” says Zonen. “Things like Playboy, Penthouse. There was one called Barely Legal. It was a publication that featured young women presumably over the age of 18 but selected because they look much younger.” Law enforcement also discovered a book of “masochistic” type drawings. When it comes to items relating to children, “There were photos of nude children but they weren’t sexually graphic,” he says. “They weren’t children engaged in sexual activity and there was no child pornography. There were no videos involving children. There were videos that were seized but they were conventional adult sexually graphic material. No children involved.” Specifically, the nude images of children he says, showed children “playing in the stream, climbing trees, nature photographs, nudist colonies, things like that,” he said. “They came from professional publications. Were they designed for pedophiles or designed as artistic photographic books I can’t comment on that.”

https://people.com/crime/michael-jacksons-estate-blasts-new-pornography-reports/_

And there a thousands of books that have never been reprinted, only have first editions, don't have any of its pictures online, and sell for $400 or more dollars. That in no way means those books also have some great CP conspiracy surrounding it. And I do say conspiracy because these publications are still considered art books. Yes, you can try as hard as you can to make them about CP and possibly make headway, but it still doesn't prove without a reasonable doubt that MJ molested those kids if there's no other evidence against him.

And you're telling me a FAN gave MJ that book anyways? He didn't even buy the damn thing himself? Wow, every MJ fan must know about his secret CP desires ?

And also, if you're going to keep bringing up the same damn books to prove Michael is guilty, be fucking fair. There were LOADS of other porn involving women in his damn house. FAR MORE than those books. Not to mention when the police raided his home and searched his computer they found NO CP on it. Funny thing is, they were STILL able to find the adult porn websites he went to.

https://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/michael-jacksons-porn/



> As for the other books I've cited: while I advise against doing this, since the SBCP have much more serious issues to deal with than Internet slapfights, you can call them Mon-Fri, 8:00-5:00 California Time, to ask them more about the porno and drugs that were seized in the '03 raid. They're not the Skull and Bones Society.



You want me to call the SBCP because you're too damn lazy to prove your own argument yourself? And you linked the damn contact page? What kind of autism do you have?

It seems all you have to prove your argument are these fucking books that
even the police say can't be entirely be labeled as CP. You never bring up the facts of ANY of these damn cases. Well, you questioned me, so how about I question you:


How did Jordan Chandler's description of MJ's genitals he gave to the police not match up with the real thing?
Why did Jordan Chandler change his story between his mother and father?
Why did Jordan Chandler's father say,_ "If I go through with this, I win big time. I will get everything I want." _on that leaked tape? What did he mean and WHY did he constantly say I?
Why is it the Chandlers wanted so desperately to have a civil case?
Why is it Michael wanted so desperately to have a criminal case?
Why would the parents of a molested child be perfectly okay with _money_ over justice?
Why did Jordan get emancipation from his parents?
Why did Jordan not show up to testify in 2005 against MJ?
Why did Jordan's mother say they never spoke to each other for eleven years after?
Why did Jordan's father commit suicide months after MJ's death?
Why is it when the makers of Leaving Neverland reached out to Jordan Chandler to tell his story, he never responded???
Why has Jordan Chandler since left the country?
And these questions ONLY pertain to the 1993 CASE! We haven't even BEGUN to dissect the shit storm that is everything after that!


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## TrippinKahlua (Mar 17, 2019)

Michael Jackson is kinda like Mickey Mouse.

They both have high pitched voices, they both wear gloves, they both like little kids, they both have an amusement park in their back yard, and they are both black with white faces.


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## ObsoleteMediaFormat (Mar 17, 2019)

Poll lacks the he was a virgin option


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## Truthspeaker (Mar 17, 2019)

Most of what @Rabidcolombian posted is redundant as fuck, but he kneecapped himself so thoroughly near the end, I'll spoiler-tag the rest, just to get to the good stuff right away:



Spoiler






Rabidcolombian said:


> All the questions you're alluding to here is basically why is this book so difficult to find? _Obviously because it's CP!!! _
> 
> Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it's not. Plain and fucking simple. If it were, why the hell would this be allowed on Amazon.com? Is CP this easy to get? Fact of the matter is, whether it makes you uncomfortable or not, the book still doesn't fit the legal criteria for CP by American law which is why it was disregarded in the trial.


I'm not saying The Boy: A Photographic Essay, nor Bruce Weber's Chop Suey Club, nor Boys Will Be Boys fit the American legal definition of child pornography.

I'm saying that the only reason books like these were made are because actual child pornography is still illegal in the United States, and pedophiles can spank it to these works without risking trouble.

Pornography of any kind was, until recent times, illegal in the United States, under the stricter interpretation of the laws against obscenity snd prostitution. Porno actors, actresses, directors, and producers, 'til the late '80s and _People v. Freeman_, were regularly raided and arrested for violating laws against hooking and pimping. Nowadays, the only times (in America, which is what really matters in this case), that a work is considered child pornography is if a child performer does something in the work that's also illegal for them to do off camera.

Which is ultimately for the best. No society can control what people masturbate to. But, that has never meant that there haven't always been legal material for spanking the monkey available. And most of it, unlike _Lolita_ or _American Psycho_ or the _NatGeo_ mags which had topless African girls that were the favorite of every male Baby Boomer middle-schooler, was made for no reason other than to provide jerk-off assistance.

Michael Jackson had those (legal) underage-boy books because he wanted to masturbate to their contents. The law, ultimately for the best, can't prosecute the owner of any legal work just because they want to masturbate to it. But nobody repeatedly finds themself in the possession of thousands of dollars of gay erotica, mostly focused on underage boys, for any reason other than their wanting to masturbate to it.



Rabidcolombian said:


> And there a thousands of books that have never been reprinted, only have first editions, don't have any of its pictures online, and sell for $400 or more dollars. That in no way means those books also have some great CP conspiracy surrounding it. And I do say conspiracy because these publications are still considered art books. Yes, you can try as hard as you can to make them about CP and possibly make headway, but it still doesn't prove without a reasonable doubt that MJ molested those kids if there's no other evidence against him.


Name one.

And there's far more evidence, which I've posted repeatedly: his loveless marriages; his bearding with Brooke Shields (even most gay dudes would've had sex with her back in the '80s); his consistent awkwardness around women that makes Tom Cruise look natural in comparison; and, most damning and least contested, his preference for friendships with young boys above all other company.



Rabidcolombian said:


> And you're telling me a FAN gave MJ that book anyways? He didn't even buy the damn thing himself? Wow, every MJ fan must know about his secret CP desires ?


I don't buy the "fan gift" story for a second. I'd believe he got those books from Santa Claus before I'd believe they were fan gifts.

But even if they were gifts from fans, Jacko wouldn't've kept the books unless he wanted to masturbate to 'em. It's not like any celeb on his level even checks their own mail anyway. Either he was ordering his help to keep works like Larry Stevens books, or his help assumed he wanted gay erotica.





Rabidcolombian said:


> And also, if you're going to keep bringing up the same damn books to prove Michael is guilty, be fucking fair. There were LOADS of other porn involving women in his damn house. FAR MORE than those books. Not to mention when the police raided his home and searched his computer they found NO CP on it. Funny thing is, they were STILL able to find the adult porn websites he went to.
> 
> https://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/michael-jacksons-porn/


*This is the same list the guys at MJFacts went over*, because it's the list from the SBCP raid, complete with Michael Ryan's Believe It or Not, which is the brown showers tape found in his bedroom.

I knew you were braindead, but actually linking to the same list I've posted repeatedly, earlier, that you said wasn't worth looking at, where the very same highly suspicious tapes from the '03 raid are contained (complete with Chop Suey and Man: A Sexual Study of Man, both of which are extremely expensive gay erotica focusing on pederastic themes) shows a breathtaking lack of intelligence even for you.

The only difference between your page and mine is that the MJFacts people actually looked at the contents of what was in Jacko's pornography colkection, and yours didn't, because there's no way to defend it once you know that Jacko had a brown showers tape in the same bedroom he held sleepovers with little boys in.

Owning gay and straight pornography on its own'd be fine if Jackson had shown any believable interest in women. Ownibg gay and straight pornography, espevially in such vast quantities, when your prefered company is boys between eight and sixteen, means you own it for the same reason Birdman watched Li'l Wayne have sex with a fourteen-year-old girl when Weezy was eleven.



Rabidcolombian said:


> You want me to call the SBCP because you're too damn lazy to prove your own argument yourself? And you linked the damn contact page? What kind of autism do you have?


I don't know, but at least I don't have the kind that leads me to white knight a celebrity pedophile with slightly more fury than a Spanish inquisitor. That'd be really embarrassing.

And given that *you already linked the very same list of pornography I posted*, you don't need to. Given that I discouraged you fron calling them anyway before you linked the very same list of porn you doubted the veracity of when I posted it, but support *when you post the same fucking list*, you doubly don't need to.

What you do need to do is actually look at the contents of the porn that was found. Or, if you don't want to actually buy a brown showers tape yourself, you can read this article, which did the hard part for you.

This post has already gone on too long, so I'll address the Jordie Chandler part later. Not for your sake, but for the sake of anyone else here reading the posts who has any doubt about the creepy old man who held private sleepovers with little boys, who kept shelves of pornography easily accessible to said little boys at said sleepovers, was a chomo.


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## GS 281 (Mar 17, 2019)

Oscar Wildean said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going on.


Same.

This has devolved more into weird conspiracy theories than "did MJ do it?" Locking.


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