# Zen Buddhism (and all other religions/belief systems)



## Sanic (Mar 4, 2015)

First of all, I'd like to start by saying by sharing this, I'm sharing a big part of myself I used to ashamed of. I would always hesitate to share my beliefs with others because I was afraid of what they'd think. The reason I'm finally starting this is because of unhappy many people here seem. I suffered with heavy depression and social anxiety for a long time now. But now I'm happy. 

And no, it is not because of the weed. = p

Let me start by saying I learned all these things while sober, I'm a Teaching Assistant for Buddhism in real life and have explained many concepts to students over the past year to hone my teaching ability. They all said they really understood it when I taught them. It made me happy. 

It's a nice feeling to be happy, taking every moment life gives you and experiencing it at it's fullest. No regrets of the past, no worrying about the future. Just right now, this moment.

I'll start by talking about Koan. A Koan is a "Question". We, ourselves, should always have a question. For Zen Buddhism, you yourself should start with a question about your life. But in a question about your life, you should have a question about your death.

That is the study of Buddhism, the study of life and death.

Now that the serious stuff is over, feel free to post your life experiences, what you think makes you truly happy in life. We can use science, philosophy, and religion in this thread as freely as possible. If you disagree with me, I'm 100% okay with it and would never hold it against you. Or if you have some questions about Zen, I'll answer them to the best of my ability. If I cannot give an answer, I'll be the first to admit I'm nothing more than a student.

Oh, and I do not think I'm Enlightened, not in the slightest. In fact, I may be farther away from it than all of you. Remember, don't always believe what I say. I could very well be wrong.


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## RobeeSonee (Mar 4, 2015)

There's a moment after a trying day where fast food doesn't just hit my hunger, but () my hugbox/feels/center. I don't have an eating disorder; I'm far too picky. Its a kind of sublime happiness, and it only lasts a few bites/sips of soda. Its not the same as being stoned, as being stoned is to be high. This is definitely a feeling of centeredness and balance, and I've never smoked for _balance_.

I guess my point is, I feel like a terrible sort of sorta-Bhuddist because I derive such tranquility from something so material a sensation. 

As a fellow stoner, how do you reconcile the need for a sensation/desire with something that you should shun to attain enlightenment? Sometimes I think "well, this is very materialistic Mister-Holier-than-Thou." And yet, isn't that kind of paradox the point of Zen? I'm asking, srsly.


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## Yawning Bulbasaur (Mar 5, 2015)

Dealing with depression and social anxiety as well right now, as well as family drama bullshit with my dad and stepmom (the latter of whom tries to look for every reason to discredit my condition even though I already received a formal diagnosis when I was still going to uni, and I definitely think she herself has narcissistic personality disorder)

At least my relationship with my mom is still much healthier and amiable, go to her house every other night to smoke weed with her

Since I'm starting to educate myself more about Buddhism in general, I always bring my Buddhism for Dummies book with me to mom's house every time, but then end up not reading it due to my already short attention span, which the weed just makes even worse


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## Sanic (Mar 5, 2015)

RobeeSonee said:


> There's a moment after a trying day where fast food doesn't just hit my hunger, but () my hugbox/feels/center. I don't have an eating disorder; I'm far too picky. Its a kind of sublime happiness, and it only lasts a few bites/sips of soda. Its not the same as being stoned, as being stoned is to be high. This is definitely a feeling of centeredness and balance, and I've never smoked for _balance_.
> 
> I guess my point is, I feel like a terrible sort of sorta-Bhuddist because I derive such tranquility from something so material a sensation.
> 
> As a fellow stoner, how do you reconcile the need for a sensation/desire with something that you should shun to attain enlightenment? Sometimes I think "well, this is very materialistic Mister-Holier-than-Thou." And yet, isn't that kind of paradox the point of Zen? I'm asking, srsly.



A very good question. I get the same feeling from Weed. It's nothing wrong, but it's something you can't rely on, so to say. The main goal of Buddhism is to end suffering. To do that, on the sheer basics level, you have to learn to embrace everything around you at the moment (weed, food, etc.) but remember it's only temporal and will go away. That's another reason why we suffer, because material things in life give us this great feeling, but they'll inevitably fade into death. Buddhism is more of accepting life as it is, being happy with just living as you are now. What you're doing isn't wrong in the slightest, but to feel content at all times, you gotta learn to let go of external happiness factors (hope that one makes sense).


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## Sanic (Mar 5, 2015)

Yawning Bulbasaur said:


> Dealing with depression and social anxiety as well right now, as well as family drama bullshit with my dad and stepmom (the latter of whom tries to look for every reason to discredit my condition even though I already received a formal diagnosis when I was still going to uni, and I definitely think she herself has narcissistic personality disorder)
> 
> At least my relationship with my mom is still much healthier and amiable, go to her house every other night to smoke weed with her
> 
> Since I'm starting to educate myself more about Buddhism in general, I always bring my Buddhism for Dummies book with me to mom's house every time, but then end up not reading it due to my already short attention span, which the weed just makes even worse



I feel ya, man. My dad used to be a complete hardass and I always hated him until a little bit ago. It's hard to learn to detach from things when they're right up in your face. Very difficult. I haven't been able to get over social anxiety completely, myself. It's a feeling that appears, but I have to try and focus elsewhere. Mind over body is another very common Buddhist teaching. Go with your mind first, focus on what you have to do and in a way, you can tune out anxiety. I've done it, never fully, but I've gotten it to a minimal before to point where I can function in public perfectly. Don't attach to the anxiety feeling. If you only have your mind focus in one area, your activity is undivided.

Now, what does weed do? I'll admit, it has one great quality that helps beginners with meditation. It can get you single minded and hyper focused. I used to only meditate while high, but gradually have fazed it out. Used to need 2 bowls, now I can do it without (harder though, no doubt). Meditation doesn't have to be sitting in a position either. One school of Buddhism has a moving meditation, where they hustle outside in the cold. 

Now, what does getting hyper focused and single minded do in meditation? It helps you experience the object of your thought to the fullest. Whether your focus is an apple, a story, your life, God, etc. Being singularly focused on something can lead to a deeper understanding. At least this is so with my personal experience.


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## Sanic (Mar 5, 2015)

Now, I'll add one more post for now. When he was Enlightened, the historical Buddha said he had found the Middle Way. He talked about it at the end of his first sermon. What is the Middle Way? It's everything Buddhism is in two words. It means to not attach to either extreme. Always take the middle path in your life at every moment. Don't attach to your life, don't attach to your death. Don't attach to the past, don't attach to the future. There is only right now to live and to realize cessation from suffering, you can't worry about such things. It will only cause pain eventually. This does not mean be adverse to change. You have to embrace change, realize everything is temporal in this world, but enjoy yourself in the moment. Once the fun goes away, you won't care, because you're detached from it and only remember the past as a great time, with no longing for such an experience in the future. This is the Middle Way, avoiding two extremes.


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## RobeeSonee (Mar 6, 2015)

Sanic said:


> A very good question. I get the same feeling from Weed. It's nothing wrong, but it's something you can't rely on, so to say. The main goal of Buddhism is to end suffering. To do that, on the sheer basics level, you have to learn to embrace everything around you at the moment (weed, food, etc.) but remember it's only temporal and will go away. That's another reason why we suffer, because material things in life give us this great feeling, but they'll inevitably fade into death. Buddhism is more of accepting life as it is, being happy with just living as you are now. What you're doing isn't wrong in the slightest, but to feel content at all times, you gotta learn to let go of external happiness factors (hope that one makes sense).





Sanic said:


> Now, I'll add one more post for now. When he was Enlightened, the historical Buddha said he had found the Middle Way. He talked about it at the end of his first sermon. What is the Middle Way? It's everything Buddhism is in two words. It means to not attach to either extreme. Always take the middle path in your life at every moment. Don't attach to your life, don't attach to your death. Don't attach to the past, don't attach to the future. There is only right now to live and to realize cessation from suffering, you can't worry about such things. It will only cause pain eventually. This does not mean be adverse to change. You have to embrace change, realize everything is temporal in this world, but enjoy yourself in the moment. Once the fun goes away, you won't care, because you're detached from it and only remember the past as a great time, with no longing for such an experience in the future. This is the Middle Way, avoiding two extremes.



Then it seems to me that either in this day and age, or at this point in my life, enlightenment is unattainable. Or perhaps, enlightenment is simply an ideal to strive towards rather than an end state. But I suppose the Middle Way sums that up perfectly.


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## Sanic (Mar 6, 2015)

RobeeSonee said:


> Then it seems to me that either in this day and age, or at this point in my life, enlightenment is unattainable. Or perhaps, enlightenment is simply an ideal to strive towards rather than an end state. But I suppose the Middle Way sums that up perfectly.



Very good. You always strive for Enlightenment. What you're wrong about though is that Enlightenment is unattainable. It most certainly is. 

"You're already an Enlightened Buddha and do not even realize it."

This idea is very apparent in the many schools of Mahayana Buddhism, counting the Zen school. Enlightened means "Awakened" in Sanskrit. We all have Buddha Nature, every one of us (a rock, a tree, a dog, people, etc.). The only difference between the historical Buddha and us is that he was, "Awakened", he had become aware. We're all Buddha, we just don't actualize it. That's mankind's problem. A perfect Buddha is a dog. Why? A dog does what a dog does best. By being true to it's nature, the dog is Buddha. We, as men, have much more trouble finding our true nature. Buddhism is about uncovering the nature of man.


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## ToroidalBoat (Mar 6, 2015)

Sanic, have you heard of Pure Land Buddhism? It's popular in eastern Asia.


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## Sanic (Mar 6, 2015)

ToroidalBoat said:


> Sanic, have you heard of Pure Land Buddhism? It's popular in eastern Asia.



Yes, I've studied it alongside Zen. Master Dogen and Shinran lived very close to the same time period. The beauty of Pureland Buddhism is only equal to that from Christianity, in my opinion. To give yourself up to a higher power. It's a very powerful devotion people can have. I'm not talking about idiot Christians, btw, I mean at the religious core of the texts.


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## Sanic (Mar 6, 2015)

Since I'm here, I'll link a video to reflect on. It's not just the words, it is the way the man says it. This quote is from the Indian Sanskrit text called, "Bhagavad Gita". It is an epic written during India's medieval period. Though it is not Zen Buddhism, the text connects with Zen at a very unexpected level. This video is of J. Robert Oppenheimer, who worked on the Manhattan Project. It's only 53 seconds long and in my opinion, life changing. Please give it a watch.


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## wheat pasta (Mar 6, 2015)

I like this thread, thank you for creating it. I've been interested in Buddhism and Zen concepts for quite some time, but I don't think I would be very good at practicing it because I can tend to be a bit of a materialist and I get frustrated with people easily. Do you have any advice for me on how to improve those aspects of myself or at least find balance with them?


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## Sanic (Mar 6, 2015)

wheat pasta said:


> I like this thread, thank you for creating it. I've been interested in Buddhism and Zen concepts for quite some time, but I don't think I would be very good at practicing it because I can tend to be a bit of a materialist and I get frustrated with people easily. Do you have any advice for me on how to improve those aspects of myself or at least find balance with them?



The only real way to understand Buddhism is practice (constantly, at every moment of your life). What I always do is say, "What is the best choice I can make to benefit other people?". For example, a friend of my mother's died and now his wife is a widow. Today, I decided to be late for class to shovel her driveway out for her. My grade may be lower, but it was the right thing to do.

Of course, there are much more fun things to do than going out of the way to help people. Play video games, post on the Kiwi all day, etc. We all love to do these things (or something of the equivalent). But, what made me find inner peace finally was letting go of attachments, living in the moment (this is undivided activity). Living with each moment birthing and dying in an instant, but only focusing on the current moment of our experience.We die every moment, we're born every moment. The old us comes crashing down when our world changes. We're reborn a new. The moment my grandmother died was a death for myself; my world. It was changed. I no longer had a world where my grandmother was living with me.

Change is a constant. We must learn to embrace it and forsake attaching to temporal things. This does not mean don't remember the past or plan ahead for your future, but not to hold onto such thoughts so tightly that it causes pain.

The only thing that is different from the historical Buddha and us is that his world was changed and he achieved human nature at it's core.

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Next I'll probably talk about two sermons the Buddha gave that may help everyone out. Also, there are some passages from the Bhagavad Gita I want to share with any interested.


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## Sanic (Mar 8, 2015)

Time for another Buddhist thingy.

After the historical Buddha was Enlightened (Awakened), he was approached by 5 of his friends. They asked Buddha what he had gotten from Enlightenment. 

Buddha hesitated to speak.

Why did he hesitate about sharing his Enlightenment experience? I think the answer can be found in a poem Buddha wrote while on his deathbed. Buddha felt he had said so much in his 49 years of teaching, yet he could never truly explain what he wanted to say.


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## Eldritch (Mar 8, 2015)

I became buddhist not too long ago. I was just atheist after being sort of disillusioned with christianity. I've gone to the Tibetan monastery in Bloomington, IN a few times for meditation sessions, but I've never really been to a teaching.
My use of this website pretty much verifies I'm not very enlightened, though.


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## Yog-Spergoth (Mar 8, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Time for another Buddhist thingy.
> 
> After the historical Buddha was Enlightened (Awakened), he was approached by 5 of his friends. They asked Buddha what he had gotten from Enlightenment.
> 
> ...



Before enlightenment, fetch wood, carry water. 
After enlightenment, fetch wood, carry water.


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## Sanic (Mar 12, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Time for another Buddhist thingy.
> 
> After the historical Buddha was Enlightened (Awakened), he was approached by 5 of his friends. They asked Buddha what he had gotten from Enlightenment.
> 
> ...



The answer I have for this that Buddha and his disciples were both from different worlds. The Buddha in a world of silence, the world of God, rocks, trees, rivers. His disciples in a world of oral language and the written word. Buddha was in Non-dualism, internally. His disciples were in dualism. 

Eastern thought is very non-dualistic, hence the best way to approach Buddhism, as it was philosophically centered in non-dualism to begin with.

Next post I'll decribe Essence and Function. Ti Yung. This is non-dualistic philosophy at it's core.


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## Alex Krycek (Mar 13, 2015)

I've studied Zen a little due to my interest in Taoism, but I regularly attend a Theravada meditation center (Monks are there on Saturday) for my own enjoyment. I like Theravada and feel like I could potentially convert.


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## Sanic (Mar 15, 2015)

I know I said I would post something about Essence and Function next, but things change. That's one truth about life; impermanence. 

Once you have fully accepted and believe that life is suffering and impermanent, you're free from it. Cessation from suffering is actualization of these truths. These are the Four Noble Truths.

1. Suffering (Dukkha)
2. Suffering is caused by attachment/desire to impermanent things.
3. We must liberate ourselves from suffering.
4. Here is how to do so (The Eightfold Path).

One story of the historical Buddha tells of his disciple telling him that the 2nd Truth and 3rd Truth were the same. The Buddha declared him Enlightened ("Awakened").


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## WeedFaggot024 (Mar 19, 2015)

I can't add much, Mainly because i'm just reading. But they're very insightful to someone who never really thought Meditation was real (iknorite)


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## Holdek (Mar 24, 2015)

Sanic I'm interested in the theological differences between Southern, Tibetan, and Zen Buddhism and why they arose as they did.  (I know they have non-English terms but I always get them mixed up .)


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## Sanic (Mar 24, 2015)

Holdek said:


> Sanic I'm interested in the theological differences between Southern, Tibetan, and Zen Buddhism and why they arose as they did.  (I know they have non-English terms but I always get them mixed up .)



My primary experience is in the Mahayana schools of Buddhism. Mahayana Buddhists thought the Hinayana Buddhists were too attached to the 84,000 scriptures written about Buddha. 

Zen Buddhists took it as far as to gather all the scriptures and burn them. They felt the words of Buddha caused attachment to his scriptures. With that, no one could ever get liberated. 

Ex: Think about it as Sluthate.com. They are attached to their red pill, blue pill, manlet, and other wacky terms. That's their whole life. Wouldn't it be best to burn those ridiculous attachments away?


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## Sanic (Mar 24, 2015)

Sanic said:


> My primary experience is in the Mahayana schools of Buddhism. Mahayana Buddhists thought the Hinayana Buddhists were too attached to the 84,000 scriptures written about Buddha.
> 
> Zen Buddhists took it as far as to gather all the scriptures and burn them. They felt the words of Buddha caused attachment to his scriptures. With that, no one could ever get liberated.
> 
> Ex: Think about it as Sluthate.com. They are attached to their red pill, blue pill, manlet, and other wacky terms. That's their whole life. Wouldn't it be best to burn those ridiculous attachments away?



Of course, this by no means means that the other schools of thought don't lead to liberation. I'm just not experienced in those particular areas.


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## Sanic (Mar 24, 2015)

3 Dharma Signs:

1. Anatman (No-Self)
2. Anitya (Impermanence)
3. Dukkha (Suffering)/Nirvana

1. Once you realize your "self" (ego) is clouding your true human nature (being  "Awakened"), you can detach from it so true human nature shines through. Once your ego is crushed, you can start not thinking about yourself and only have compassion for the people around you.

2. Once you realize that the world is ever changing, at every moment we live in, you've accepted that all things change. To detach from Impermanence, you must embrace change. Don't hesitate, don't show fear, you should think deeply about things that hurt you and reflect. Even if you cry hysterically, keep pushing.

3. Once you realize Suffering (dukkha), the first Noble Truth, is Nirvana, you can embrace suffering. It'll hurt, but it has to be overcome. Face your suffering and overcome it.

Next I'll post about the No-Thought Sutra.


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## c-no (Mar 25, 2015)

I studied a bit of Buddhism for a couple weeks in religious studies. All I can say is that it interest me since, as my professor pointed out, how it does have some similarities with Christianity (in terms of the figures, Buddha and Jesus did question the religious authority though for Buddha it was asking why need a priest to attain enlightenment while Jesus questioned the Pharisees regarding the laws and God. Another example was how their teachings spreaded out in the world, being more widely accepted outside than domestically). Another thing I found interesting were the schools (which @Sanic mentioned) such as Mahayana and Hinayana and how there were different beliefs (one saw Buddha as a monk to follow, the other sort of saw him as like a sort of "savior" figure).


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## Sanic (Mar 26, 2015)

The No-Thought Sutra was created because people all over China were fighting about which school of Buddhism was correct. Angry arguments (no violence, though). One man was tired of it and made the No-Thought Sutra. It can be summed up like this:

"Don't think, Do".

Essentially, do not attach to Buddha's teachings, but do as they say.

EDIT: Lately, I've been trying to live my life this way and have had a huge boost in self-confidence.


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## c-no (Mar 26, 2015)

Sanic said:


> The No-Thought Sutra was created because people all over China were fighting about which school of Buddhism was correct. Angry arguments (no violence, though). One man was tired of it and made the No-Thought Sutra. It can be summed up like this:
> 
> "Don't think, Do".
> 
> ...


So kinda like wu wei in having no action and by that, I mean just doing something in the flow without planing it ahead? In other words, being in harmony like all the gears in a clock?


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## Sanic (Mar 26, 2015)

c-no said:


> So kinda like wu wei in having no action and by that, I mean just doing something in the flow without planing it ahead? In other words, being in harmony like all the gears in a clock?



Exactly!


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## Sanic (Mar 27, 2015)

From my experience, and what I've learned through other sources, No-Self (ego) is compassion towards all people, no matter who they are (even Sluthate users, yes). When there's no more selfish desire, only other people remain.


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## Holdek (Mar 27, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Living with each moment birthing and dying in an instant, but only focusing on the current moment of our experience.We die every moment, we're born every moment. The old us comes crashing down when our world changes. We're reborn a new.



I guess the Middle Path applies to time as well.  Like, don't forget your past, it's made you who you are, but also don't become attached to it, as time is ephemeral and begins anew each moment.


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## The Knife's Husbando (Mar 27, 2015)

I'm very interested in the application of Zen concepts in martial arts. I'm self-taught in a few fields, and by no means an expert in anything. One thing that I've never forgotten is what the Sensei that ran a  Kenpō  dojo that I had a few classes at told me: "Fear breeds indecision. Indecision breeds hesitation. hesitation breeds inaction. And inaction will get you killed."


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## Sanic (Mar 28, 2015)

Holdek said:


> I guess the Middle Path applies to time as well.  Like, don't forget your past, it's made you who you are, but also don't become attached to it, as time is ephemeral and begins anew each moment.



Exactly, you are birthed and you die each moment. The past experiences we have guide us throughout life, but attaching/dwelling on it can cause pain.



The Knife's Husbando said:


> I'm very interested in the application of Zen concepts in martial arts. I'm self-taught in a few fields, and by no means an expert in anything. One thing that I've never forgotten is what the Sensei that ran a  Kenpō dojo that I had a few classes at told me: "Fear breeds indecision. Indecision breeds hesitation. hesitation breeds inaction. And inaction will get you killed."



You nailed it.

Samurai used to be taught be a Zen master after their combat training (to my knowledge). Basically, the Zen master teaches the samurai to let go of his "self" and only focus on defeating his opponent. Without fear, there's nothing holding a warrior back.


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## The Knife's Husbando (Mar 28, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Exactly, you are birthed and you die each moment. The past experiences we have guie us throughout life, but attaching/dwelling on it can cause pain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the concept of _Mu, _or nothingness.  To exist solely in the moment between life and death, disregarding everything but your goal. Become nothing to become real.


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## Sanic (Mar 28, 2015)

The Knife's Husbando said:


> It's the concept of _Mu, _or nothingness.  To exist solely in the moment between life and death, disregarding everything but your goal. Become nothing to become real.



And that is the Middle Way summed up. Well done.


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## The Knife's Husbando (Mar 28, 2015)

May be a bit off topic, but I wanted to share a story. It's from Discordianism, which is basically Buddhism's weird little sister.

The Warrior and the Peasant:



Spoiler



Long ago, in the land of Nippon- the Land of the Rising Sun- a great samurai was troubled in his heart. Although he was strong in the arts of war: the bow, the horse, and the blade- and thus enjoyed the accolades of his peers, and the honor of serving the Shogun as a personal bodyguard- uneasiness constantly accompanied him. It ate into his enjoyment of the littlest thing, from the play of light in the eyes of the geisha, to the enjoyment of the falling cherry blossoms, the sound of a flute in the moonlight, to the taste of rice in his mouth. Powerful as he was, all seemed to be ash in his mouth, and the darkness of his soul darkened his actions- sometimes making him cruel.

One day, in the aftermath of yet another battle on the plains, he happened across a wandering monk. Striking up a civil conversation, for some reason the great warrior told the monk of the uneasiness of his heart- that all in the world seemed without pattern, and for all his reliance and adherence to bushidō, nothing in the wide world seemed to make sense. The monk listened politely, and then gave his advice: The warrior must undertake a great journey- into the mountains of Nepal, far, far away- and upon finding a village at the peak of the pass into the mountains of mist, he must stay at a hovel in the east-most point of the village and meditate in the easternmost corner. As to when this should occur, only the Gods could tell. Puzzled at the odd advice, the warrior gave his thanks, and they went their separate ways.

As this was a period of strife, the Shogun had not firmly established his rule. It was a period of political upheavals, intrigue, and assassination, and those with a lust for power reached for it. One fateful day, his master Yoritomo fell on the field of battle, and the warrior realized that he had entered the saddest part of a samurai’s life. After spending three days surviving on roots, grubs and rainwater on the Adachigahara plains as the Hikiji clan hunted for stragglers from the battle….he was now a Ronin- a warrior of the waves- floating about on the seas of changes that were happening in his homeland. What was left for him? Naught but travel, the time the monk had predicted had come home.

As our time is short, we must gloss over the warriors’ travels. We must wait to another time to tell of his battles with the kappa and goblins in the Aokigahara forest at the base of sacred mount Fugi, or his skirmishes that finally united the citizens of Edo against marauding bandits, or his triumph over the junk-riding Chinese pirates that plagued the eastern coast, and his eventual crossing and journey into India through China. Years and years did the warrior  travel amongst the roving, gathering and separating millions of India, and eventually he adopted the ocher-colored dress of one of the Sannyasi, a wandering holy man dependent on his neighbor for his daily bread- and as long as there is a morsel to divide in the great land of India- neither priest or beggar starves. He had, as the old laws recommend: twenty years a youth, twenty years a warrior, and twenty years a head of a household, and thus he concealed his finely made Daisho, forged by the legendary Koetsu, and continued his travels to try to ease the burden of his heart.

And one day, while wandering- his eyes on the road, and his mind in the clouds- he crested the top of the latest pass. His longest climb yet, a weary three day uphill trudge, he saw the image that had been burned in his mind by the monk all those years ago. The village in the mountains of mists, just on the horizon, and thus the warrior set out, his spirit renewed. Upon arriving at the village, he found the easternmost hovel- and after setting down on the rubble in the easternmost corner- began to meditate on his life, his adventures, and his place in the world- striving to think his way back to where his soul had came. During his meditations, he was occasional interrupted by filth and ordure falling from a broken pipe above him, directly onto his head. Viewing this as yet another trial in a lifetime of trials, he bore it with patience and continued his meditations. He pondered all the actions of his long life: his scars, his loves, his memories. Later that day, two wandering peasants entered the hovel, and one remarked to the other- “Who is that that sits on the rubble in such a regal pose, yet covered in common filth?” The second responded- “Some say he is a Holy man, others say he is a shit-head.”

Upon hearing this, the warrior was enlightened.


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## DuskEngine (Mar 28, 2015)

I visited Bhutan a few months ago. I believe they're Mahayana. Beautiful place. 
It's interesting how Buddhism and Nietzsche came to so many of the same conclusions, but Nietzsche categorically rejected Buddhism.


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## Sanic (Mar 28, 2015)

The Knife's Husbando said:


> May be a bit off topic, but I wanted to share a story. It's from Discordianism, which is basically Buddhism's weird little sister.
> 
> The Warrior and the Peasant:
> 
> ...



He is both a holy man and a shithead then, is what I got from it. Two extremes being embraced as one. Essentially, in non-dualistic philosophy, the holy man is a shithead, a shithead is a holy man. I could be quite wrong, that's just what struck me first due to my past experiences.


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## Holdek (Mar 29, 2015)

DawnMachine said:


> I visited Bhutan a few months ago. I believe they're Mahayana. Beautiful place.


Interesting.  IIRC Bhutan can be really hard to get into.



Sanic said:


> He is both a holy man and a shithead then, is what I got from it. Two extremes being embraced as one. Essentially, in non-dualistic philosophy, the holy man is a shithead, a shithead is a holy man. I could be quite wrong, that's just what struck me first due to my past experiences.





			
				Lin Chi said:
			
		

> Those who have fulfilled the ten stages of bodhisattva practice are no better than hired field hands; those who have attained the enlightenment of the fifty-first and fifty-second stages are prisoners shackled and bound; arhats and _pratyekabuddha_s are so much filth in the latrine; _bodhi_ and nirvana are hitching posts for donkeys.


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## DuskEngine (Mar 29, 2015)

Holdek said:


> Interesting.  IIRC Bhutan can be really hard to get into.


I'm Indian, and Bhutan is still basically a de facto Indian protectorate, so we don't need a visa or anything.


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## Sanic (Mar 29, 2015)

The Bhagavad Gita is part of the Mahabharata an Indian epic the equivalent to the western Greek's Iliad. There is a famous verse in there; one Ghandi said summed up the whole text. Verse 2.47.

1) Your right is to action alone;
2) Never to its fruits at any time.
     Never should the fruits of action be
     your motive;
3) Never let there be attachment
     to inaction in you.

1) This means, your duty belongs to action. This is truth and your karmic duty.

2) But in acting, never attach to the fruits of those actions. Your intention should be to always do what is right, never for what you could get from it. Personal benefit is wrong, you only do so because it is the right thing to do.

For example: Do I help my parents with shoveling snow, or do I continue to play Halo for fun. We all know the inherent right thing to do is to help other people. It's what human nature is.

3) The last line refers to hesitation, fear, sloth, self-doubt, etc. Essentially anything that prevents you from fulfilling your duty.

For example: I see a child about to get run over. Do I hesitate and think for a moment or do I not think and run in to help. Attaching to inaction stops us from helping others and be true to other human nature.

EDIT: Remember, there are multiple interpretations of all the greatest texts in human history. That's what makes them so beautiful. Many interpretations are true, not just one.


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## Sanic (Mar 29, 2015)

Gita: 2.47

Your right is to action alone;
Never to its fruits at any time.
Never should the fruits of action be
your motive;
Never let there be attachment
to inaction in you.

My question to anyone who cares is what does this verse mean to you?


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## The Knife's Husbando (Mar 29, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Gita: 2.47
> 
> Your right is to action alone;
> Never to its fruits at any time.
> ...



Taking charity & selflessness to an instinctual level, and divorcing the concepts of greed, apathy and envy from your mind. 

(second thought to avoid a double post)

I seriously don't understand Buddhists being vegetarians. Not even counting in the good third of life on this planet that is carnivorous/omnivorous, even plants and fungi basically live off dead biomass.  Nature kills. That's sort of the point. Old life is fuel for the new.


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## DuskEngine (Mar 30, 2015)

The Knife's Husbando said:


> I seriously don't understand Buddhists being vegetarians. Not even counting in the good third of life on this planet that is carnivorous/omnivorous, even plants and fungi basically live off dead biomass.  Nature kills. That's sort of the point. Old life is fuel for the new.



There's a difference between eating meat that exists, eating something that eats meat, and killing the animal directly. They way I see it, the point is that if you can exist without inflicting suffering, that's something to strive for.


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## c-no (Mar 30, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Gita: 2.47
> 
> Your right is to action alone;
> Never to its fruits at any time.
> ...


Looking at the verse despite not really reading the Giya, I think it says we should be able to do, to go out and do something but never do it simply for some end result that glorifies the self but rather just do it because why not? You do have people out there that need help and feeling good be damned ( I guess one example of doing something because it's right was pointing out that a exam I got was actually an F rather than a D. Though my honesty did bump it up to a D, I did feel like doing the right thing for the sake of it was better *I think I got some sort of feeling in just doing the right thing* than trying to hope for something better or not mentioning at all). The last verse, I think it means we shouldn't be inactive and let things fly by. We are in this world and we should try to do our duty, whether you are a Christian, a Buddhist, atheist, American, Russian, or whatever other label there is, we should do our right in doing something in this lifetime we all have.


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## wheat pasta (Mar 30, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Gita: 2.47
> 
> Your right is to action alone;
> Never to its fruits at any time.
> ...



Be humble, selfless and free of greed, strive to do good in the world rather than to obtain material possessions. Do not allow yourself to stagnate in life, but rather flow with time and exist in each moment as it comes. 
I dunno, I'm still learning this whole Buddhism thing...


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## Holdek (Mar 30, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Gita: 2.47
> 
> Your right is to action alone;
> Never to its fruits at any time.
> ...



I think it means do not hesitate with taking what you know is the right action due to a fear of failure.


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## Sanic (Mar 30, 2015)

If you notice, we all come to the same conclusion by our different life perspectives. Why is this? I would say it has to do with true human nature; the reason why most people in the world follow laws like not killing, stealing, lying, etc. Instead, as people, we prefer to be treated with mercy, compassion, and love. We also love to give compassion towards others. That's human nature.

We live in a very utilitarian dualistic culture nowadays. There's always the concept of "me" and "others", "friend" and "enemy", etc. . Differentiation is dualism. I'm personally a believer in non-dualism ("Not Two"). Though it sounds generic and stupid to say "everything is one", I do personally believe so, fully.

Example of Non-Dualistic Thought: "A master teaches his student, a student teaches his master." 

Basically, there is a Master and Student within all of us. At times we are the Master, at times we are the Students, in life. I'm the Teacher when I'm posting and you're the Students. When you are posting, you're the Master and I'm the Student.


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## Sanic (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm going to talk about Dukkha; suffering. As mentioned earlier in the 3 Dharma Signs, the way to get liberated from suffering is realizing we must embrace suffering. That is the living embodiment of Nirvana. But how can suffering be Nirvana? We want to eliminate suffering, don't we? 

This concept may be hard for people to accept, but it's full out true. We have problems, we face them. We embrace the suffering. If we don't face our fears, our weaknesses, we can never gain strength as true human beings. Inner struggles must be meditated on (there are many forms of this, of course) and overcome. They require us to take the right action, as the Gita says. But if we stay in inaction, we'll do nothing and continue to wallow in suffering, shame, regret, etc.


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## The Knife's Husbando (Apr 1, 2015)

Serious question: Do animals follow the middle path? 

A hawk flies because that's what he's made to do. A wolf kills not because of any desire to inflict suffering on another creature, but because that's what he is.


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## Sanic (Apr 1, 2015)

Faceist Analchest said:


> This basically describes intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation.
> 
> Acting based on intrinsic goals is, somewhat paradoxically, the only thing that's ultimately satisfying. And if you eliminate desire, that's all that's really left to do. I think it's easy for people to get confused and interpret elimination of attachment as complete passivity and inaction, but it's really a recognition that pursuit of goals for extrinsic reasons (i.e. "what you could get from it") doesn't get you what you think it will.
> 
> Edit: sorry if this isn't clear; I have a nasty cold and it's the best I can do right now.



Yep, many Buddhists were criticized during the early years for being too tranquil and passive, especially in the Gita. Some Buddhists today even believe passivity and inaction is the way. Personally, I agree with your view.


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## Sanic (Apr 1, 2015)

The Knife's Husbando said:


> Serious question: Do animals follow the middle path?
> 
> A hawk flies because that's what he's made to do. A wolf kills not because of any desire to inflict suffering on another creature, but because that's what he is.



Yes, I would say many Buddhists (including Zen) would say animals are following the Middle Way. Animals, like everything else in existence, have Buddha Nature.They go on instinct, with no attachment. Though I always personally wondered about domesticated animals. They can attach very strongly to their masters.

Humans are considered special. We have the ability to become "awakened"/Enlightened, to become aware. This includes self-awareness and the awareness of understanding other people's viewpoints and experiences.


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## Sanic (Apr 1, 2015)

One thing I've learned studing religion over the years:

If you look at religion through a more Zen mindset, you see the truth of them all becomes much clearer. Some say I trap myself in a box by using non-dualistic thought as my primary analyzing method, but I love the more causal, western philosophy of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, as well. It's about taking the Middle Way, even with Non-dualism. This may also seem paradoxical, but that's because we can only express our thoughts and inner feelings through a limited linguistic system (writing, speaking, etc.). It can be a prison at times. Buddhism is about breaking free of that linguistic prison. Understanding the silent world around us. The world of trees, rocks, wind. The world of God. Nirvana.

Always remember to be open-minded with religious texts, like you're viewing them for the first time. Many don't do this because they fear indoctrination. I can very honestly say, as long as you keep a clear mind, you'll find what you're looking for in the end.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: All you need is faith in yourself, that you have the wisdom of the perfectly Enlightened Buddha in you. It's not something you obtain, it's something You "dis"cover. You're all already Enlightened and just don't even realize it yet.

You need this wisdom and self-awareness that You know to make the right, selfless decision. Enlightenment is Sudden, not gradual. Still, we gradually gain enlightenments/revelations throughout our lives from our own minds/consciousness. We are currently living in the world of God right now. Nirvana, the Pureland, whatever you wish to call it. We're all from one source, just rivers flowing back to the singular ocean.

To sum up this post. You are within God (macrocosm). God is within You (microcosm). The only one holding you back from cessation from suffering is You.


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## wheat pasta (Apr 1, 2015)

I recently started a garden and I've noticed that when I make myself busy tending to it, I'm far more relaxed. I even find myself drawn there to spend time aimlessly now, it seems to calm my anxiety like nothing else. I could sit out there for hours, sharing in the day with those small, tender green shoots.
I started this garden from seeds and it has taught me patience. I feel like the experience so far has helped me to understand the concept of 'zen' a lot better than to simply discuss it. 
Just wanted to share this for anyone who cares to read. This thread is always enjoyable for me and I wanted to contribute something.


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## Sanic (Apr 1, 2015)

wheat pasta said:


> I recently started a garden and I've noticed that when I make myself busy tending to it, I'm far more relaxed. I even find myself drawn there to spend time aimlessly now, it seems to calm my anxiety like nothing else. I could sit out there for hours, sharing in the day with those small, tender green shoots.
> I started this garden from seeds and it has taught me patience. I feel like the experience so far has helped me to understand the concept of 'zen' a lot better than to simply discuss it.
> Just wanted to share this for anyone who cares to read. This thread is always enjoyable for me and I wanted to contribute something.



Experience (gardening) over knowledge (reading this thread). You're practicing Zen Meditation very well by tending that garden. But you would know better than any.


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## Sanic (Apr 3, 2015)

Birth and Death
Shoji

Verse 1:

"Because a Buddha is in birth and death, there is no birth and death."
It is also said, "Because a buddha is not in birth and death, a buddha is not deluded by birth and death."
These statements are the essence of the words of the two Zen masters, Jiashan and Dingshan.
You should certainly not neglect them, because they are the words of those who attained the way. - Dogen, Zen Master

---------------------------------------------------------

When you're in the moment, living in the NOW, right now, there is no more death of the past and birth of the future. Being in birth and death is being one with Nirvana, your perfect human nature. 
Buddhas are not in birth and death, because they escaped the cycle of Samsara, death and rebirth, because they live NOW, in the moment. They are not deluded by the non-enlightened concepts of birth and death. They are in Nirvana, which is truth.


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## Sanic (Apr 6, 2015)

Anyone have any questions, comments, etc.? Just wondering from anyone interested.


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## The Knife's Husbando (Apr 6, 2015)

I do, but give me a bit. This is honestly more thought-provoking and informative than I realized.


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## c-no (Apr 7, 2015)

One comment I have: To see mention of Samsara can remind one the origins of Buddhism, how it shares some similar things Hinduism has such as reincarnation and samsara, a wheel of birth and death that repeats for many until they manage to obtain a sort of moksha or enlightenment where they then are no longer part of that wheel. I also see a sort of similarity with Christianity and Buddhism. Not only are their key figure's (Jesus and Buddha) are given a sort of reverence, the idea's they had also move out through the world, becoming more popular in other countries than in their own (Israel, Nepal). Kinda makes me wonder if Saint Young Men might actually touch upon that, especially since the two are room-mates in Japan.


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## DuskEngine (Apr 14, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Some say I trap myself in a box by using non-dualistic thought as my primary analyzing method, but I love the more causal, western philosophy of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, as well. It's about taking the Middle Way, even with Non-dualism.



That reminds me of Dialectics, actually. Refusing to view two given things as solid and discrete when they more than likely influence and act upon each other in subtle ways, while at the same time rejecting the monist trap of regarding everything as unchanging or immobile.


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## Konstantinos (Apr 21, 2015)

We all know that the realest and the dankest Dharmic religion is Jainism, obviously.







Nah, I'm joshing. I think they're all interesting. Sanic, going by what you've said here, I'm guessing you're predisposed to find Buddhism appealing. But I'm curious, what do you think of the other Dharmic religions? What aspects of them do you find appealing?

They all encourage compassion to some extent and are all about achieving enlightenment and breaking the cycle of rebirth. But Jainism is more adamant about non-violence for one thing.


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## Conrix (May 7, 2015)

Sanic said:


> Gita: 2.47
> 
> Your right is to action alone;
> Never to its fruits at any time.
> ...


A lesson Connor could learn from. But seriously I think they're saying that your rewards for labor shouldn't be your focus (asspats, money, etc.), but the labor itself should be, and also sitting on your ass and doing nothing isn't even a functional way to sort your problems out. The "fruits" are really just bonus points.


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