# The Tomboy Question(s)



## Zero Day Defense (May 21, 2021)

I've noticed what appears to be a burgeoning interest (on the internet, at least) in the tomboy subculture... but not quite from girls. At least, not as far as I can tell.

No, it appears there's a burgeoning appreciation/fetishization of tomboys by _young men_, sometimes brought up/implied as they lament the social forces that convince them to attempt to "become the boy they were meant to be" with SRS and HRT instead. Myself, I've talked about the potential usefulness of the subculture in steering girls away from something so dangerous while still providing space to explore interests not as well-aligned with female cultural norms-- perhaps with more optimism than warranted.

I found this worth considering somewhat more seriously after about the third or fourth time of seeing someone tearing their sackcloth about the tomboy genocide (okay, that's an exaggeration), and I found it worth sharing some of the prompts I came up with in my consideration:

Where did this come from, if it's indeed a burgeoning interest?
What are some of the rationales you have or have heard in justification of individual interest in women of this subculture?
Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?
How much of this would you imagine is "respecters" more likely merely having a short hair fetish and/or being primed to respond to girls in snapbacks with sexual arousal?
How much "fault" would you attribute to anime comics, video games, and animation?
Feel free to discuss beyond the questions.


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## Maurice Caine (May 21, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Where did this come from, if it's indeed a burgeoning interest?
> What are some of the rationales you have or have heard in justification of individual interest in women of this subculture?
> Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?
> How much of this would you imagine is "respecters" more likely merely having short hair fetish and/or are primed to respond to girls in snapbacks with sexual arousal?
> ...



Anime
It's a fetish
Don't know
99.9% of them
Watch Azumanga Daioh and you'll find out.


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## Kurt Eichenwald (May 21, 2021)

It's %100 fetish and it's not new but now that it's a meme the tomboy love will spread. Idk how much else there is to say because how this happened is quite simple. Some people think girls look hotter with short hair and a flannel shirt, but they don't know anyone who matches that description and also wants the eichenwood, so these people are salty as fuck at everything similar, like ftms and lesbos.


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## Geralt of Rivia (May 21, 2021)

It's the transition phase from liking girls to liking traps. Also a dead meme.


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## LurkNoMore (May 21, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Where did this come from, if it's indeed a burgeoning interest?


Tomboys. Seriously anything a woman does some man will find attractive sooner or later.



Zero Day Defense said:


> What are some of the rationales you have or have heard in justification of individual interest in women of this subculture?


Seriously, man see woman, man like woman. Why does a male warthog like a female warthog? Because he's meant to. Simple as.



Zero Day Defense said:


> Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?


Lol, all of them on countless occasions.



Zero Day Defense said:


> How much of this would you imagine is "respecters" more likely merely having short hair fetish and/or are primed to respond to girls in snapbacks with sexual arousal?


All of them. Seriously.



Zero Day Defense said:


> How much "fault" would you attribute to anime comics, video games, and animation?


None. Weather the mentioned exists or not. Men will find women no matter what, for the most part, attractive.


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## themasterlurker (May 21, 2021)

Another fantasization of a type of woman that hardly exists


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## Schway (May 21, 2021)

As for rationalizations I personally think that whether people realize it or not a large part of the attraction to tomboys is the femininity, however counterintuitive that might feel. Tomboys are portrayed as inexperienced and shy when it comes to love. That seems cute and "pure" to guys so it's attractive.  It makes them seem more genuine.

As to why it's popular, probably anime and the lack of that type of more naive femininity.


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## Vulva Gape (May 21, 2021)

It's cause your gay. Why do you like masculinity?


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## The Lawgiver (May 22, 2021)

the tomboy fetishization shit is fucking skeevy as hell and kinda gross but tomboys are fucking cool. The term is meant to be used as a referential term to females not giving a shit about whats socially acceptable for gender roles and the less people get hung up about gender bullshit the better. Stay the FUCK away from self described tomboys though as they are almost 99% of the time some fucking crazy ass basic snowflake bitch who will inevitably spiral into the genders and labels game or attempt to use you. There are exceptions but be fucking wary around those kinda people.

There's also like that whole "tomboy extinction" phenomena you sometimes hear rumblings about because kids and adults are getting their heads FILLED with current year gender bullshit and a lot of the time whenever the label IS used by someone these days it's by some thot that shows none of the actual traits of what a tomboy actually is doing the self proclaiming thing and it's treated as a fucking accessory. Then there's the people that have an unhealthy obsession with Tomboy stereotypes and end up commiting simping on some self proclaimed tomboy. It's a viscious system and it's destroying all meaning of what used to be a useful word to describe an aspect of someone else.

I'm running on an entire days no sleep so this might not be coming out too good right now lmao.


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## Taco Bell Chihuahua (May 22, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?
> 
> Feel free to discuss beyond the questions.


I can think of a reason why women gravitate towards the tomboy aesthetic.

We live in an age where the modern woman have to work more often than not.  The economy is not what it used to be and the roles of women in society have changed. Being a stay at home wife or mother is not a concept a lot of people can afford anymore. So what do women choose to do for careers? Well, they explore their interests in working fields just as any man would do.
Let’s talk about entry level blue collar and labor jobs, a primarily male dominated work force. The payout for the jobs is lucrative, with benefit packages and bonuses abound. But being a woman coming into these environments, it’s rough to say the least. I am speaking from many years of personal experience. I don’t want to say a lot of men in blue collar hate women because it frames them poorly, and there are good people and bad people.  However a majority of these men are skeptical of a woman’s role in hard labor.  There tends to be a strong boys club mentality to these jobs, and women just don’t fit their age old narratives.
So what do women do to adapt to these environments? I’ve found they embrace the tomboy label. It is extremely isolating for a woman to come into a job where they feel alone, unwelcome, and even hated.  Women in this field will often be the only woman on their team. Whether they care about that or not, the men they work with do. They are subject to harsher scrutiny than their peers. I can’t tell you how many times men, or even other women have told me that I should know my place and that I’m doing a mans job. People actively take pleasure in my failures and hate my successes, and have told me as much, because I don’t belong.
Blue collar isn’t the only field this happens in, it’s just the one I’m in and can speak on. I don’t want this to come off as seethe. I understand why this happens, and I accepted it when I accepted this as my career. Turning a wrench and mechanical work brings me joy, and that’s why I do it at the end of the day. But I do it as a woman, not a woman trying to be man. And that’s a mentality women in this line of work struggle with often.
When I first started out I found myself thinking often how I wished I was a man, not out of any desire to transition or give up my femininity, but just to gain respect. I have long since outgrown that mentality and I recommend to others in a similar situations to do the same. But I do think that’s why there’s  at a surge in tomboy culture. Women doing jobs that only men used to do.

As for it being some kind of fetish I can’t really speak on that.


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## Idiot Asshole (May 22, 2021)

While I'm sure that there are normal, well-adjusted men who find women acting boyish attractive the Internet dork variety of tomboy respecting is just a fetish, mostly borne out of being attracted to girls but not understanding and being scared to interact with them so they envisage the "perfect" woman that they can actually talk to who is basically a guy with a vagina.


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## Scolopendra Dramatica (May 22, 2021)

Cause hyper-femme is mainstream currently and this is the starts of it swinging the other way.

Used to be loads of 'tomboys' when I was younger, at least by today's standards and now they're being encouraged to troon out; men see cute women in trouble and want to be their saviour.

It's a modern take on an age old male protective instinct. Plus tomboys will likely seem less alien to men and they're the physical opposite of the tarty looking, heavily made up girls you see these days.

It's also the equivalent of fancying goth girls before the goth girls became a popular commodity


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## A Welsh Cake (May 22, 2021)

Yamato Nadeshiko is still the best anime originating cultural unrealistic expectation, fight me.


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## Billy Beer (May 22, 2021)

Eh? I don't get this. It must be something on the internet that has passed me by

One of my old gf's was a traditional 'tom boy' because she liked to work on/modify cars and would rather wild camp than stay in a pampered hotel. But, she dressed and looked like a normal woman (feminine it used to be called before the perverts and gays took the word).

So this 'fetishisation' is really strange to me. Plenty of 'tomboy' women exist out there, they just don't dress up in a big neon sign saying "IM A TOMBOY"

I thought labels and 'dress-codes' were high school shit?


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## byuu (May 22, 2021)

They're heckin cute and valid.


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## Just Another Apocalypse (May 22, 2021)

"Very well,” it is said, and the Tomboy herself says it, “the Tomboy is to become emancipated not as a Tomboy, not because she is a Tomboy, not because she possesses such an excellent, universally human principle of morality; on the contrary, the _Tomboy_ will retreat behind the _citizen_ and be a _citizen_, although she is a Tomboy and is to remain a Tomboy. That is to say, she is and remains a _Tomboy_, although she is a _citizen_ and lives in universally human conditions: her Tomboyish and restricted nature triumphs always in the end over his human and political obligations. The _prejudice_ remains in spite of being outstripped by _general_ principles. But if it remains, then, on the contrary, it outstrips everything else."

 On the Tomboy question.


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## Gaming Gamer (May 22, 2021)

You got some unresolved gay in you if you want a wig on one of your bros and want to wave the gay away with a wand. Much like the stereotype around the "hyper masculine" guys are compensating for the gay they are hiding on the inside. I feel its the same with Tomboy lovers if you want masculine features in your women you got some unresolved gay in you. I feel this issue gets super convoluted because no one can agree on what fucking makes a tomboy exactly too. So that doesn't help, just because a girl is fit doesn't make her a tomboy. Just because a girl plays sports doesn't mean she's a tomboy. Just because she got short hair doesn't make her a tomboy. Have you ever done martial arts with long hair? The point of short hair is to stay cooler than you would if you had long hair. You don't want something easy for your opponent to grab on and your hair doesn't get in your face. Theres a lot of utility in short hair. A woman can do these things and still retain her feminity. So the more activities and hobbies women are involved in, the less spaces for a "tomboy" to actually fit in. So I feel for the guys looking for such features in a woman they gotta work out the gay in them.


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## John Furrman (May 22, 2021)

Tom boys are exclusively children and people who appreciate them are exclusively pedophiles.


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## Burning Urethra (May 22, 2021)

Obligatory tomboy pasta in the box below, click right to get mad instead.  If you feel an immediate urge to call gay those men who like women with short hair / comfy or fit styles / whatever doesn't fit the long hair, shoveled on makeup, summer dress UwU girl aesthetic, it's you who is insecure, possibly because you've been a homo all along. (Did you really expect more than "no u"?)



Spoiler



Tomboys are the ultimate straight man's choice. A regular girl has tits and pussy but comes loaded with gay shit such as makeup, desire for shopping clothes and useless shit and watching boring shitty tv shows.

A gay dude is gay but he has a partner that shares his interests.

A tomboy is the best of both worlds, a female body but with enough /fit/ness to keep up with you, good interests and great personality

A trap is 200% gay. Not only are you fucking a dude, you are also putting up with the faggotry of a female



I do agree that nobody actually has an accepted  definition of the tomboy. It doesn't really matter to me in any case, I just really like short hair, not that much a fan of /fit/ girls.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (May 22, 2021)

Don't worry. Globohomo is working on a Final Solution to the Tomboy Question.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 22, 2021)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Don't worry. Globohomo is working on a Final Solution to the Tomboy Question.


You mean a "Troon Solution"


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## Gaming Gamer (May 22, 2021)

Schlong song said:


> One of my old gf's was a traditional 'tom boy' because she liked to work on/modify cars and would rather wild camp than stay in a pampered hotel. But, she dressed and looked like a normal woman (feminine it used to be called before the perverts and gays took the word).


This is exactly one of the points I was making just said differently. As society progresses and woman are accepted in more fields. These "masculine exclusive" activities are becoming less abundant. Therefore a woman can participate in said activities without being a tomboy and retain her feminity much like your gf did.



Burning Urethra said:


> I do agree that nobody actually has an accepted  definition of the tomboy. It doesn't really matter to me in any case, I just really like short hair, not that much a fan of /fit/ girls.


It matters to me not because of autism reasons. Its the internet I don't get mad over things posted on the internet. The reason it matters is why even have a discussion in the first place? If 2 people are arguing about "one" thing but have different definitions of that one thing. Then the waters get muddied and the argument will never end. Because they can't come to an agreement of what they are even arguing about in the first place.


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## Burning Urethra (May 22, 2021)

That's absolutely true, normally if common sense understandings of words fail you need to define some specialist terms, don't think many people will care enough for this since in the end it's all about what gets some people off.

Maybe we do need a workable definition for a tomboy conservation effort against the tranny menace.


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## Terrorist (May 22, 2021)

Women with masculine outlooks who are "one of the guys/not like the other girls" tend to be unbalanced in some way. It's a red flag for me - anecdotally, every "adult tomboy" (btw, doesn't that sound unnatural?) I knew cheated on her bf. Avoid the tomboid and seek out feminine women instead.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 22, 2021)

Terrorist said:


> Avoid the tomboid and seek out feminine women instead.


You mean the ones who catfish you in real life with their pounds of makeup caked to their faces?

_Those_ feminine women?


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## Blobby's Murder Knife (May 22, 2021)

Tomboys are relatively uncomplicated compared to other women. They already like some of what you like, they do not expect you to do everything for them. They may wear base level makeup and decent clothes, but are not high maintenance. Not like other girls thing is absolute catfishing bullshit. I can gladly back up my shit, but most other basic bitches that claim this, lmao.


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## FEETLOAF (May 22, 2021)

The Tomboy is an expression of healthy romance that has been largely removed from our society: The childhood friend who you one day marry. The girl you knew when you were kids, before puberty hit, before she became feminine. The girl you used to wrestle with in the park, who you watched flower into womanhood in adolescence, and who you one day married. Unfortunately modern human society has many adolescent life-disruptions that make lifelong friendships and romances like that very difficult. You finish elementary school and go to middleschool, leaving behind all your old friends and finding new ones. Then you do that again in highschool, again in college, and again when you settle down somewhere far from your home town. Very few people lay down multigenerational roots and stay in the same place with the same people their whole lives anymore. From prehistory to the late modern period a person was unlikely to move more than 100 miles from where they were born. Now a person is extremely unlikely to live in the same place for more than 10 years, constantly moving for school and job opportunities. Our social ties become transient and ephemeral, and something in our hearts knows this is wrong. We yearn for the girl next door who we haven't spoken to in 20 years and will never speak to again.


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## Wormy (May 22, 2021)

Terrorist said:


> Women with masculine outlooks who are "one of the guys/not like the other girls" tend to be unbalanced in some way. It's a red flag for me - anecdotally, every "adult tomboy" (btw, doesn't that sound unnatural?) I knew cheated on her bf. Avoid the tomboid and seek out feminine women instead.


Says you. It was the girly girls I dated who were insane in the membrane. The tomboy I did hook up with turned out to be Mrs. Right, and we've been married 15+ years now.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 22, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> The Tomboy is an expression of healthy romance that has been largely removed from our society: The childhood friend who you one day marry. The girl you knew when you were kids, before puberty hit, before she became feminine. The girl you used to wrestle with in the park, who you watched flower into womanhood in adolescence, and who you one day married. Unfortunately modern human society has many adolescent life-disruptions that make lifelong friendships and romances like that very difficult. You finish elementary school and go to middleschool, leaving behind all your old friends and finding new ones. Then you do that again in highschool, again in college, and again when you settle down somewhere far from your home town. Very few people lay down multigenerational roots and stay in the same place with the same people their whole lives anymore. From prehistory to the late modern period a person was unlikely to move more than 100 miles from where they were born. Now a person is extremely unlikely to live in the same place for more than 10 years, constantly moving for school and job opportunities. Our social ties become transient and ephemeral, and something in our hearts knows this is wrong. We yearn for the girl next door who we haven't spoken to in 20 years and will never speak to again.


That was so moving I bet you got that off the back of a candy wrapper.


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## Blobby's Murder Knife (May 22, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> That was so moving I bet you got that off the back of a candy wrapper.


Just say you like uncomplicated women, lmao.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 22, 2021)

Tomboys tend to simply come across as ironically more feminine. The average girl you see advertised (not necessarily the actual average mind you) tends to be done up and stuck up. They expect you to take care of them like a cat and are obsessed with being different while porking a dozen guys at a time. It's not actually as common as it seems but with social media it's all you see and the familiarity kills the idealization you need to build a romantic connection. Tomboys on the other hand are genuinely rare, proactive in romance and don't demand of your masculinity. In fact, they revel in sensitivity and dreaminess in men just as men enjoy their straightforwardness and strength. 
TLR: Tomboys tend to be sweet and lowkey in an era where everyone is being loud and moody.


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## FatalTater (May 22, 2021)

From what I learned watching old sitcoms, tomboys are good for bantering with and they'll fix your car if it messes up, and on the off chance there's any actual romance happening she'll put on the frilliest dress available and wear her hair down. When everyone makes fun of the couple and they break up, the tomboy goes back to cars and bantering as if nothing happened. On the off chance a tomboy gets married, the frills and lace and long hair reappear and are permanent. Does this make her a trap of sorts? No idea.

Old sitcoms are the best learning materials.


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## mr.moon1488 (May 22, 2021)

Dudes have liked tomboys for far longer than the internet.  It's normal for dudes to be attracted to chicks they can more easily relate to.  The reason you're seeing more interest in tomboys now than what you did before has a lot less to do with tomboys themselves, and more to do with the fact that normie western chicks are normally either extremely slutty, dumb as fuck, vapid, SJWs, or just have horrible personalities and no social skills.  Tomboys don't tend to be like this because they have a tendency to prefer socializing with men.  You pick up a lot more personality traits from the circles you run in than what you think.


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## DicksOutForKiwigglers (May 22, 2021)

Let me tell you a story from my childhood. 
Mid-eighties. I'm in highschool. The boys and I pass recess and shit by racing each other down the track. One day, this gorgeous blonde with a pixie cut walks up to us and wants to race up the track. We let her, most of us take it easy on her so she can have fun. This girl was funny, sexy, and very direct. Had never met any girl like her before. It was then that I knew I had a thing for tomboys. 

Tomboys are a type. Distinctly feminine and girly but *interested  *in the hobbies and hanging out in male dominated fields. That's what the attraction to the Tomboy is. Usually no shitty make-up, athletic body, and a very open and direct personality that contrasts the usual and tedious endless beating around the bush shit that women tend to do when they can't make up their minds on something. I don't think they're like this because they "think like boys" but because they're trying to fit in with men and have to adjust to a masculine mindset. Might have changed since my day, but it's just like guys who are into goth chicks. They offer something different enough from Tiffany that they're alluring.


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## Lemmingwise (May 22, 2021)

I liked tomboys until I started dating them and realized that not a single one of them could clean.


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## Basketball Jones (May 22, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> The Tomboy is an expression of healthy romance that has been largely removed from our society: The childhood friend who you one day marry. The girl you knew when you were kids, before puberty hit, before she became feminine. The girl you used to wrestle with in the park, who you watched flower into womanhood in adolescence, and who you one day married.


I'll add to this point using clips from one of the few "chick-flicks" I genuinely enjoy, _Miss Congeniality_:  














There's a comfortable innocence to the idea of dating a tomboy. There's playful ribbing and schoolyard tier bants and you can say things to her that you would never say to any other girl in your class. It's a simple idea of a simple romance where one day you realize that it isn't gay to love your best friend because you just realized your best friend is a girl. 

In short: it's cute and endearing and people like cute things OP


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## Zero Day Defense (May 22, 2021)

Gaming Gamer said:


> This is exactly one of the points I was making just said differently. As society progresses and woman are accepted in more fields. These "masculine exclusive" activities are becoming less abundant.


Absent coercion, there's always going to be male and female-dominated fields, because men and women are more inclined to different things.


COCl₂ said:


> Just say you like uncomplicated women, lmao.


I was going to type a screed about how women being "complicated" is a myth meant to cover for the fact that we don't teach women accountability or how to properly appraise/express their actual desires, but I'm interested in what you have to say about it first-- if you have anything to say on the matter, that is.



Lemmingwise said:


> I liked tomboys until I started dating them and realized that not a single one of them could clean.


That's not a tomboy problem, that's a post-1993 woman problem.


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## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

As a tomboy I kinda wonder what the fetishists would think of an actual tomboy like me, who has no desire to fuck some random dude from the chans or pop out babies ever.

But yeah being a tomboy, especially after puberty can be a lot more difficult than people realize even before the troon craze. Unless you've personally experienced it I don't think people realize just how much pressure masculine girls and women are under to conform to gender stereotypes. Especially autistic ones.


FEETLOAF said:


> The Tomboy is an expression of healthy romance that has been largely removed from our society: The childhood friend who you one day marry. The girl you knew when you were kids, before puberty hit, before she became feminine. The girl you used to wrestle with in the park, who you watched flower into womanhood in adolescence, and who you one day married. Unfortunately modern human society has many adolescent life-disruptions that make lifelong friendships and romances like that very difficult. You finish elementary school and go to middleschool, leaving behind all your old friends and finding new ones. Then you do that again in highschool, again in college, and again when you settle down somewhere far from your home town. Very few people lay down multigenerational roots and stay in the same place with the same people their whole lives anymore. From prehistory to the late modern period a person was unlikely to move more than 100 miles from where they were born. Now a person is extremely unlikely to live in the same place for more than 10 years, constantly moving for school and job opportunities. Our social ties become transient and ephemeral, and something in our hearts knows this is wrong. We yearn for the girl next door who we haven't spoken to in 20 years and will never speak to again.


Except those girls next door are people who likely will never be interested in a romantic relationship with you. Is it really tomboys you like, or your fantasy ideal of them?

I think anyone who fancies themself a tomboy appreciator needs to ask themself the question of whether they still appreciate tomboys who have no interest in them or who continue to be masculine into adulthood. Or nerdier tomboys that aren't into sports but are more interested in anime or outdoorsy shit. Tomboys that aren't a fantasy ideal.


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## Kabuki Actor (May 23, 2021)

It's because the real gender binary is between people and _shallow retards_.


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## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

John Furrman said:


> Tom boys are exclusively children and people who appreciate them are exclusively pedophiles.


I mean I am a womanchild on the psychological level of a disgusting edgy 10 year old boy, but physically I'm an adult and have been for a while. 

Just because most tomboys get pressured into giving it up around puberty doesn't mean we all do, some of us stay tomboys our whole lives.


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## Sarcastic sockpuppet (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> Very few people lay down multigenerational roots and stay in the same place with the same people their whole lives anymore. From prehistory to the late modern period a person was unlikely to move more than 100 miles from where they were born.


People were also a lot more likely to be inbred due to the small pool of romantic options.
Stop romanticizing consanguinity just to own the libs.
If you want to pork your playground buddy you can look her up on facebook.


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## L50LasPak (May 23, 2021)

If anything this thread proves there's been some kind of shift in the attitude towards tomboys recently. For most of my life I've known it to just be a character trait or quality, not a subculture. This fetish stuff is very recent. I've known plenty of men to have a preference for tomboys, but a prefence is considerably different than and outright fetish which I have straight up never seen up until recently.

I almost wonder if the recent forced interest in the topic is some kind of gay op to get tomboys permanently marginalized as just another fetish.



John Furrman said:


> Tom boys are exclusively children and people who appreciate them are exclusively pedophiles.


I have no idea where the hell this even comes from.



Zero Day Defense said:


> Absent coercion, there's always going to be male and female-dominated fields, because men and women are more inclined to different things.


This is sort of unrelated to the topic at hand but while I agree I wanted to mention that I think things becoming pigeon-holed into stereotypically male or female can wrap around to being a kind of coercion in itself. That paradigm and people's initially good-intentioned attempts to dismantle it ultimately got us into this fucked up gender situation in the first place.



Android raptor said:


> I think anyone who fancies themself a tomboy appreciator needs to ask themself the question of whether they still appreciate tomboys who have no interest in them or who continue to be masculine into adulthood.


I suspect these people don't actually exist. One constant in the human race is that most people never think about anything a great deal, so its always suspicous when an article appears claiming that there's a subset of people (especially men) who have some complicated attachment to some mundane thing. Sure, I bet you can find a handful for a news interview, but I doubt their overall numbers are significant.



Gaming Gamer said:


> The reason it matters is why even have a discussion in the first place? If 2 people are arguing about "one" thing but have different definitions of that one thing. Then the waters get muddied and the argument will never end. Because they can't come to an agreement of what they are even arguing about in the first place.


This arguement literally applies to every single topic ever discussed by two or more people. I have some really bad news for you if this causes you discomfort.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Except those girls next door are people who likely will never be interested in a romantic relationship with you.


Hey, he's probably (possibly (maybe)) a Chad with a heart of gold that all the hunnies are sticking to-- don't diss him like that.


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## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Hey, he's probably (possibly (maybe)) a Chad with a heart of gold that all the hunnies are sticking to-- don't diss him like that.


Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights. I've seen his posts in abortion sperging. 

That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys if you ultimately just see them as something you want to stick your dick in and pop out babies for you. Sure some women, even masculine women, do want to have kids, but lots of us don't. Lots of us also aren't attracted to men. Do you still respect those tomboys? Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?


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## Stab You in the Back (May 23, 2021)

As a Tomboy Respecter, I am distressed over the idea that anyone would be so depraved as to fetishize these wonderful specimens of the female race.  



Android raptor said:


> Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights. I've seen his posts in abortion sperging.
> 
> That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys if you ultimately just see them as something you want to stick your dick in and pop out babies for you. Sure some women, even masculine women, do want to have kids, but lots of us don't. Lots of us also aren't attracted to men. Do you still respect those tomboys? Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?


You're not a tomboy, you're a dyke.  And there is something seriously wrong with your brain.  Please get help.


----------



## Schway (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?


Humanity should never have to suffer having this sentence uttered again


----------



## John Furrman (May 23, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> I have no idea where the hell this even comes from.


The Oxford definition of a tomboy exclusively says girls who do things that boys do, not women acting like men. What the people who fetishize tomboys are fetishizing is likely that youthful aspect. Perhaps they remind them of a girl they went to school with they had a crush on. Either way, it's weird and I don't like it.

However, I'll concede that it's a thing for girls past puberty on @Android raptor's word.


----------



## byuu (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?


Then you're not a tomboy - just a dyke.


----------



## Shiversblood (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights. I've seen his posts in abortion sperging.
> 
> That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys if you ultimately just see them as something you want to stick your dick in and pop out babies for you. Sure some women, even masculine women, do want to have kids, but lots of us don't. Lots of us also aren't attracted to men. Do you still respect those tomboys? Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?



You trying to say that all Tom boys are actually all bull dyke lesbians is one of the reasons why they are trying to make regular heterosexual Tom boys into transgenders! You are a part of the problem.


----------



## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I think anyone who fancies themself a tomboy appreciator needs to ask themself the question of whether they still appreciate tomboys who have no interest in them or who continue to be masculine into adulthood. Or nerdier tomboys that aren't into sports but are more interested in anime or outdoorsy shit. Tomboys that aren't a fantasy ideal.


Why would you want guys to have an interest in women with no interest in them? That's awkward at best and as for the latter, yeah I like talking to them too. They fit my vibe and like it when you introduce them to things. It's like teasing a cat.
Edit: Also, why do you have such a weird issue with an alternate beauty idea coming about in this day and age? Different "types" have always existed and come in and out of prominence. Are you just afraid that the whole butch do over might get you hit on instead of being dude repellent?


----------



## Poppavalyim Andropoff (May 23, 2021)

I married a tomboy. 
Did I buy myself a lifelong bus pass ticket to fagtown  
Much confused here ..


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> As a tomboy I kinda wonder what the fetishists would think of an actual tomboy like me, who has no desire to fuck some random dude from the chans or pop out babies ever.


You're not a tomboy, you're a lesbian. Not the same thing.


----------



## Prophetic Spirit (May 23, 2021)

> Where did this come from, if it's indeed a burgeoning interest?


Nah, even Japaneses had the same taste. They even created archetypes and putted in many 3d hentai games. Don't ask me why i know thought.


> What are some of the rationales you have or have heard in justification of individual interest in women of this subculture?


Well, i don't care about the shape or a personality in a woman in general, but i always got a weak spot in many "strong, dull" personalities but still woman in heart. Hard Sports are a real rare interest in "normies" ones too.


> Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?


Only the pre-FtM ones. I've met women who fit in the tomboy subculture very clearly but they got more a aggresive tone in general with more hobbies related to men rather than theirs. But you know, at least in USA there's a pushing agenda and probably even my personality is in danger to those fuckers.


> How much of this would you imagine is "respecters" more likely merely having a short hair fetish and/or being primed to respond to girls in snapbacks with sexual arousal?


Those are in the same spectre as the "goth thicc gf" meme. I'm sure there's a large group of real respecters and those accepted those hard, dull personalities at the start.


> How much "fault" would you attribute to anime comics, video games, and animation?


100%, no doubt.


Android raptor said:


> As a tomboy I kinda wonder what the fetishists would think of an actual tomboy like me, who has no desire to fuck some random dude from the chans or pop out babies ever.
> 
> But yeah being a tomboy, especially after puberty can be a lot more difficult than people realize even before the troon craze. Unless you've personally experienced it I don't think people realize just how much pressure masculine girls and women are under to conform to gender stereotypes. Especially autistic ones.
> 
> ...


Nah, you're actually making excuses. Probably i'm not the one to talking about but you're not a real tomboy; just had a phase in your teenage years, like everybody else... but not me.


----------



## L50LasPak (May 23, 2021)

John Furrman said:


> The Oxford definition of a tomboy exclusively says girls who do things that boys do, not women acting like men. What the people who fetishize tomboys are fetishizing is likely that youthful aspect. Perhaps they remind them of a girl they went to school with they had a crush on. Either way, it's weird and I don't like it.


Maybe its a regional thing, but I think that's archaic at the very least. I've heard it used to refer to women in general as a shorthand. I don't think that's been the common understanding of it for like 30 years.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Stab You in the Back said:


> You're not a tomboy, you're a dyke.  And there is something seriously wrong with your brain.  Please get help.


Tomboys are masculine girls and women. Dykes are masculine gay women. Dykes are a form of tomboy, dude.

I have gotten help btw, thanks for asking


Shiversblood said:


> You trying to say that all Tom boys are actually all bull dyke lesbians is one of the reasons why they are trying to make regular heterosexual Tom boys into transgenders! You are a part of the problem.


Never said straight tomboys didnt exist, just that lots of tomboys are gay. In fact most cases of gender dysphoria in kids end with the kid just growing up to be a masculine gay woman or feminine gay man.


Lemmingwise said:


> You're not a tomboy, you're a lesbian. Not the same thing.


I'm a lesbian tomboy. They aren't mutually exclusive.


Prophetic Spirit said:


> Nah, you're actually making excuses. Probably i'm not the one to talking about but you're not a real tomboy; just had a phase in your teenage years, like everybody else... but not me.


I'm in my 30s and my apartment is filled with toy dinosaurs, bugs, and spiders. I rarely wear makeup and cut my own hair in front of mirror. At least half the shit I wear to this day was bought in the mens department. Much to my mom and teachers disappointment, it was not a phase.

Damn dudes kinda proving my point


----------



## Prophetic Spirit (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I'm in my 30s and my apartment is filled with toy dinosaurs, bugs, and spiders. I rarely wear makeup and cut my own hair in front of mirror. At least half the shit I wear to this day was bought in the mens department. Much to my mom and teachers disappointment, it was not a phase.


Finally, you can explain that before and not now only to prevail your point? If you have any actually


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

I'm surprised by how hard all of you successively ran @Android raptor's wallet. That said, I always figured it a given that there's some overlap between being a dyke and being a tomboy... but now that I think about it, I wouldn't actually call a dyke a tomboy-- I'd call them a dyke because they're a dyke. My impression of tomboys is that there's a distinct boyishness that nonetheless doesn't even mostly obscure their femininity, in contrast to dykes who are actively trying to snuff out said femininity as some means of compensation-- the only place they fail is in their still having their female machinery.



Android raptor said:


> Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights.


I'm not going to participate in bringing that maelstrom over into this thread, but suffice it to say there are plenty of women who would at least mostly agree with him, especially in a society where abortion support is 60/40 and it's still common for people to want _some_ kind of restriction on it.



Android raptor said:


> That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys if you ultimately just see them as something you want to stick your dick in and pop out babies for you.


Most people don't see women as that. It's kind of hard to, in the first place, unless they let you do so.



Android raptor said:


> Sure some women, even masculine women, do want to have kids, but lots of us don't. Lots of us also aren't attracted to men. Do you still respect those tomboys? Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?


I respect the fact that you altogether show that you can have sex-deviant interests without it meaning that you must really be a guy "on the inside" and are therefore in "need" of body mutilation and drugs that increase the risk of cancer and osteoporosis.

...I dunno, I never really got the term "tomboy respecter" and I'm pretty sure that _that_, more than the increasing presence of the predilection, is a rather strange meme (along with "tomboy appreciator", to be frank). Generally, we afford some basic respect to other people barring them demonstrating unworthiness of even that, so this is a weird question to ask without an underlying assumption that the respect of tomboys discussed here is contextualized by a kind of reduction into an example of an archetype (i.e. they're stripped of individuality and thereafter evaluated and conditionally respected according to  how conformant they are with said archetype).

But I don't think you're suggesting _that_, and I have yet to get that from the people here. Even @FEETLOAF describes the allure as part of a general yearning for what amounts to simpler times in a rather expository way. also i'm not very bothered by women identifying as lesbians if they're nonetheless willing to hop on deez nuts *ahem* More seriously though, I'm far less concerned with what people say their orientation is and more concerned with what (who) they do.


----------



## CheezzyMach (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Tomboys are masculine girls and women. Dykes are masculine gay women. Dykes are a form of tomboy, dude.
> 
> I have gotten help btw, thanks for asking
> 
> ...


Got to ask but are tomboys actually a thing?

Because I've seen a lot of girls who are into shit like Star Wars,sports,video games,anime and bugs while also being interested in typical girl shit like jewelry and makeup.

Might just be a personal thing but from what I've observed simply liking guy things doesn't make one a tomboy


----------



## Fek (May 23, 2021)

Tomboy shit _seems_ fine, and maybe it actually works out long term for some guys out there to date 'em. Just..man, I'd highly advise against dating one that shares your favorite male-centric interests with you. You'll think it's cool at first until reality sets in. You're still dealing with a woman, tomboy or not, and she's gonna insist on invading what was once your happy place (regardless of doing it alone or with the guys). To her, sharing that interest means she's going to see any time spent on it as "together time" now. Congrats, you've lost your "you time" and now get to spend it with someone who will insist they can keep up with you (possibly even believing it) while almost certainly never being able to do so (ugly truth of life, ladies). It will ruin the relationship in a hurry or make you miserable for life.

I guess a greater lesson in general here is be fucking careful what interests you share with your significant other. You do not want to end up doing literally everything together.


----------



## Shiversblood (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> In fact most cases of gender dysphoria in kids end with the kid just growing up to be a masculine gay woman or feminine gay man.



I absolutely disagree. Sometimes they were just confused and end up straight. Stop demanding that people become homosexual.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

CheezzyMach said:


> Got to ask but are tomboys actually a thing?
> 
> Because I've seen a lot of girls who are into shit like Star Wars,sports,video games,anime and bugs while also being interested in typical girl shit like jewelry and makeup.
> 
> Might just be a personal thing but from what I've observed simply liking guy things doesn't make one a tomboy


I mean, I exist and like bugs and anime and shit and am not really into makeup or jewelry and shit. Unfortunately I feel like most boyish girls like me around me age or younger have trooned out.


Shiversblood said:


> I absolutely disagree. Sometimes they were just confused and end up straight. Stop demanding that people become homosexual.


I'm not demanding anyone become gay. Just pointing out not all tomboys are straight, and lots of boyish girls do turn out to be gay. Nothing wrong if they aren't, but not all tomboys are into dudes.


Zero Day Defense said:


> I'm surprised by how hard all of you successively ran @Android raptor's wallet. That said, I always figured it a given that there's some overlap between being a dyke and being a tomboy... but now that I think about it, I wouldn't actually call a dyke a tomboy-- I'd call them a dyke because they're a dyke. My impression of tomboys is that there's a distinct boyishness that nonetheless doesn't even mostly obscure their femininity, in contrast to dykes who are actively trying to snuff out said femininity as some means of compensation-- the only place they fail is in their still having their female machinery.


Yeah the idea that tomboys have to still be acceptably girly is bullshit and mostly peddled by horny dudes and Karens mad their daughters still arent interested in boy or makeup at 14. Tomboys are girls who are boyish. That's it.

Damn dudes always trying to tell women how categories of female identity work, be it troons or dudes here.


Fek said:


> Tomboy shit _seems_ fine, and maybe it actually works out long term for some guys out there to date 'em. Just..man, I'd highly advise against dating one that shares your favorite male-centric interests with you. You'll think it's cool at first until reality sets in. You're still dealing with a woman, tomboy or not, and she's gonna insist on invading what was once your happy place (regardless of doing it alone or with the guys). To her, sharing that interest means she's going to see any time spent on it as "together time" now. Congrats, you've lost your "you time" and now get to spend it with someone who will insist they can keep up with you (possibly even believing it) while almost certainly never being able to do so (ugly truth of life, ladies). It will ruin the relationship in a hurry or make you miserable for life.
> 
> I guess a greater lesson in general here is be fucking careful what interests you share with your significant other. You do not want to end up doing literally everything together.


I have a feeling girls being tomboys isnt the reason your relationships have failed.


----------



## CheezzyMach (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I mean, I exist and like bugs and anime and shit and am not really into makeup or jewelry and shit. Unfortunately I feel like most boyish girls like me around me age or younger have trooned out.
> 
> I'm not demanding anyone become gay. Just pointing out not all tomboys are straight, and lots of boyish girls do turn out to be gay. Nothing wrong if they aren't, but not all tomboys are into dudes.
> 
> ...


Well that's why I was asking because a lot of people seem to define tomboy as ether:

girl who has a few masculine interests but still likes girly stuff 

or

girl who has short hair and/or athletic build

And IDK it just felt iffy to me is all.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

CheezzyMach said:


> Well that's why I was asking because a lot of people seem to define tomboy as ether:
> 
> girl who has a few masculine interests but still likes girly stuff
> 
> ...


Yeah it's always felt iffy to me too, especially since I'm not girly but I'm not athletic either. I feel like trying to pigeonhole girls and micromanage what counts as a tomboy is a factor in them trooning out.

I feel like if you're overall more boyish than girly and a girl, you count as a tomboy. You don't have to like sports or a certain sexuality or whatever, it's about the overall package not specifics. Nothing wrong with being girly either (something I also had to learn because lol internalized misogyny and getting picked on by feminine girls and women).


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Yeah the idea that tomboys have to still be acceptably girly


I didn't say anything about "acceptable" levels of femininity. The concrete part of what I _did_ describe, however, was intent, which I think is a fine way of looking at matters given that dyke behavior is unilaterally a conscious and deliberate rejection of their femininity in favor of masculine affectations. There is absolutely no argument to be had here-- dykes are point A on the FtM pipeline. They actually hate being women. If you're just boyish without the desire to expel every trace of femininity and acquire a strange pseudo-masculine musk, I reckon you're not a dyke.

In contrast, my understanding of tomboys overall is just that there's a distinct impression left by their interest in things generally considered masculine and/or they behave in a way more amenable and _comradely_ to men in casual settings *but* there is no active rejection of their femininity.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I didn't say anything about "acceptable" levels of femininity. The concrete part of what I _did_ describe, however, was intent, which I think is a fine way of looking at matters given that dyke behavior is unilaterally a conscious and deliberate rejection of their femininity in favor of masculine affectations. There is absolutely no argument to be had here-- dykes are point A on the FtM pipeline. If you're just boyish without the desire to expel every trace of femininity and acquire a strange pseudo-masculine musk, I reckon you're not a dyke.
> 
> In contrast, my understanding of tomboys overall is just that there's a distinct impression left by their interest in things generally considered masculine and/or they behave in a way more amenable and _comradely_ to men in casual settings *but* there is no active rejection of their femininity.


I mean, I don't want to chop my tits off and sometimes wear sundresses (mostly because they're the most comfortable thing when the heat index is 100+ degrees and my lazy ass doesn't have to find pants). I'd say that counts as not wanting to expel every single trace of femininity.

Personally I think the reason so many dykes troon out is because they're pigeonholed and even on the left the idea that you can be a masculine woman seems to have disappeared.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Personally I think the reason so many dykes troon out is because they're pigeonholed and even on the left the idea that you can be a masculine woman seems to have disappeared.


I'm virtually certain they are actively trying to be pseudo-males to begin with. They're either still grounded enough in reality to realize they will never be real men, they're nominally comfortable in their sex, or it hasn't yet occurred to them to inflict upon themselves SRS and HRT.

I figure it's more obvious with black women. It's also possible that it takes on a different shape between communities.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I'm virtually certain they are actively trying to be pseudo-males to begin with. They're either still grounded enough in reality to realize they will never be real men, they're nominally comfortable in their sex, or it hasn't yet occurred to them to inflict upon themselves SRS and HRT.
> 
> I figure it's more obvious with black women. It's also possible that it takes on a different shape between communities.


Or they could just prefer to wear short hair and mens clothes because it's cheaper and more comfortable.

Shit, do you have any kind of deeper reasons for not wanting to wear dresses or makeup? Sometimes women just like what they like because thats who they are and theres nothing deeper to it. Women don't have this inherent, instinctual desire to put on makeup or heels or have long hair, that shit is all just down to personality and preference just like it is with men.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Or they could just prefer to wear short hair and mens clothes because it's cheaper and more comfortable.


You're talking past me. I'm not talking about donning clothes and hairstyles reminiscent of masculinity-- we're talking about active masculine affectations. This is the closest thing to the female equivalent of the AGP I can think of.

Women don't just develop pseudo-masculine musks, marginally feminine appearances, and exceedingly aggressive attitudes because they're not conforming to typical female gender norms. You have to put in effort to get to what I'm describing. You wouldn't defend an AGP acting like some bad caricature of a woman on the same grounds, because it's more obvious what the big idea is.


----------



## Scale Smerch (May 23, 2021)

The recent spike in interest is definitely fetish-driven, but it's over a specific variety of fetish. The manga/anime world these days for example classifies a tomboy as any sort of athletic girl with short hair and a love a sports. They are toned, often muscular, and almost always shy and inexperienced with love, which adds a sort of authenticity a lot of guys crave with a passion. It's pretty much become a sort fusion category that crosses over into a lot of different fetish territory so no surprise it's increased in popularity (and given a lot the wrong idea about what constitutes a tomboy).

This compares with actual tomboys which in my experience don't have a similar level of interest, largely because it can be considered an age-related concept now. Most for example, if they saw a pre-teen or teenage girl playing with the boys or enjoying distinctively male hobbies, would have no issue classifying them as tomboys - these girls are not doing girly things and bucking expectations.

While this can lead to some going dyke or trooning out, it's more or less a phase now; as you get older, get more responsibilities, and enter the real world, the distinction fades. The past 40 years or so have made it acceptable (and nigh expected) for girls to do guy things, to enter male dominated spaces, and otherwise break with typical girl behaviour. It's IMO best represented by the evolution of geekdom and its public perception, but women's role in the workplace was what really broke down the barrier and started muddying the tomboy definition. By taking away the stigma for a lot of different societal and cultural things, the term loses a lot its original meaning.

TL;DR: Tomboys are a thing, but now largely for weebs and the parents of girls.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You're talking past me. I'm not talking about donning clothes and hairstyles reminiscent of masculinity-- we're talking about active masculine affectations. This is the closest thing to the female equivalent of the AGP I can think of.
> 
> Women don't just develop pseudo-masculine musks, marginally feminine appearances, and exceedingly aggressive attitudes because they're not conforming to typical female gender norms. You have to put in effort to get to what I'm describing. You wouldn't defend an AGP acting like some bad caricature of a woman on the same grounds, because it's more obvious what the big idea is.


The fuck are you talking about? Some women also prefer masculine fragrances, big whoop. also there are highly feminine women with exceedingly agressive attitudes too, it's more a personality thing than anything else.


Scale Smerch said:


> The recent spike in interest is definitely fetish-driven, but it's over a specific variety of fetish. The manga/anime world these days for example classifies a tomboy as any sort of athletic girl with short hair and a love a sports. They are toned, often muscular, and almost always shy and inexperienced with love, which adds a sort of authenticity a lot of guys crave with a passion. It's pretty much become a sort fusion category that crosses over into a lot of different fetish territory so no surprise it's increased in popularity (and given a lot the wrong idea about what constitutes a tomboy).
> 
> This compares with actual tomboys which in my experience don't have a similar level of interest, largely because it can be considered an age-related concept now. Most for example, if they saw a pre-teen or teenage girl playing with the boys or enjoying distinctively male hobbies, would have no issue classifying them as tomboys - these girls are not doing girly things and bucking expectations.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately there is definitely still often pressure on tomboys to start conforming to gender stereotypes once they start hitting puberty, especially autistic ones. You'd be surprised at the amount of parents and teachers that might tolerate a girl liking star wars and anime at 8, but will bitch her out and say it "isn't appropriate for a girl her age" if she still likes it at 14 (especially if she's not interested in something stereotypically feminine like fashion or makeup). 

Ask me how I know.


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 23, 2021)

Sorry but why are there a couple of people that seem to think a tomboy is a girl who is basicly a female soyboy consoomer? I don't think it's playing pokemon outside or playing games that makes a girl a tomboy.

When I think of a tomboy it's the kind of girl that likes outdoorsy stuff, run around, climb trees, roughhouse. A girl that can banter a little and take a punch (though in my experience not usually much talkers in contrast to most other girls).

A girl that's into computer games, board games, and such seems more like a nerdy subtype than a tomboy to me.

--- 

I remember a couple of years back teaching classes of kids and there was maybe one tomboy every 5 classes of 20 kids. It's always been a kinda uncommon thing but it's not really gone. It's also a young people thing; the older one gets the less likely you think of a woman as a tomboy. I am not convinced tomboys are disappearing. I accepted the premise initially, but aren't we just getting older? And wouldn't tomboys be a type of girls you don't encounter much online in the first place, since even if she's gaming or whatever she's the type of girl to not have voice chat or need to say she is a girl? More of a lurker when on forums.


I dunno. But presuming that it's true that tomboys are dissappearing, I'd point to lgbtq agenda as the culprit. It's the same reason why male affection and physical contact has reduced by a lot, because the assumption of it being gay is so much more common. Women don't face quite the same scorn as men do for homosexuality, but tomboy or not they tend to be more concerned with what people think so it'll have the same effect on not wanting to signal what they're not.


----------



## Agent Abe Caprine (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Unfortunately there is definitely still often pressure on tomboys to start conforming to gender stereotypes once they start hitting puberty, especially autistic ones. You'd be surprised at the amount of parents and teachers that might tolerate a girl liking star wars and anime at 8, but will bitch her out and say it "isn't appropriate for a girl her age" if she still likes it at 14 (especially if she's not interested in something stereotypically feminine like fashion or makeup).
> 
> Ask me how I know.


In my experience, it's other girls that pressure tomboys to conform once puberty hits.


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys


Who the fuck respects women? Even women don't respect women.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Agent Abe Caprine said:


> In my experience, it's other girls that pressure tomboys to conform once puberty hits.


Girls and women , yep. Which also is a huge part of what creates internalized misogyny/NLOGs/fakebois, you associate being a typical girl with the people who are picking on you so you want to distance yourself from that.


Lemmingwise said:


> When I think of a tomboy it's the kind of girl that likes outdoorsy stuff, run around, climb trees, roughhouse. A girl that can banter a little and take a punch (though in my experience not usually much talkers in contrast to most other girls).


I like that shit too. Shocker.


FEETLOAF said:


> Who the fuck respects women? Even women don't respect women.


And this is the real reason the girl next door won't fuck you


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> And this is the real reason the girl next door won't fuck you


Stop projecting, incel.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> Stop projecting, incel.


You generally have to respect a woman in order for her to agree to be your romantic partner. Barring misogynistic shithole theocracies and cults where women don't really have a choice of course.


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> You generally have to respect a woman in order for her to agree to be your romantic partner.



Someone has never met domestic abuse victims.



Android raptor said:


> I like that shit too. Shocker.


Though women might like the same things men like, they won't be men.

Though dykes might like the same things tomboys like, they won't be tomboys.

I get bored of explaining things to autistics, but I suppose someome has to do it. Now for once in your life take a hint and accept that it's different.


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> You generally have to respect a woman in order for her to agree to be your romantic partner.


Nah.


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 23, 2021)

Agent Abe Caprine said:


> In my experience, it's other girls that pressure tomboys to conform once puberty hits.


It's true. But I also think it's the puberty itself that changes the behaviour.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Someone has never met domestic abuse victims.
> 
> 
> Though women might like the same things men like, they won't be men.
> ...


Accept someone you dislike is a tomboy. Not all tomboys are dykes, but all dykes are a form of tomboy.

Damn y'all as bad as troons with trying to tell women how they should and shouldn't identify. Acting like y'all know more about being a specific type of woman than an actual woman smh



Lemmingwise said:


> It's true. But I also think it's the puberty itself that changes the behaviour.


Then puberty sure as fuck didn't get that message with me lmao

It's pretty much all because of social pressure.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> The fuck are you talking about? Some women also prefer masculine fragrances, big whoop.


I didn't say "fragrance", I said *musk*. As in, the equivalent of a foul, post-exercise odor that indicates a man's man.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I didn't say "fragrance", I said *musk*. As in, the equivalent of a foul, post-exercise odor that indicates a man's man.


This might come as a shock, but women get B.O. as well if we work up a sweat. We aren't magic unicorns that smell like roses and sunshine in all situations.


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Damn y'all as bad as troons with trying to tell women how they should and shouldn't identify.


Yes, there are things about people that you don get to decide for yourself. You don't get to decide for yourself if you're male or female, nature does. Same with certain reputations. You or I don't get to self identify if you're a slut, loser, chad, supermodel, fuckup, tomboy, nerd, asshole etcetera. These are things other people decide for you based on how you act and look.

The fact that you have some personal headcanon that is at odds with reality is just retreating into a fantastical world where you can be whatever you want. Things don't work like that with groups of people and if you think it does, I suggest you work on it with your therapist.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Yes, there are things about people that you don get to decide for yourself. You don't get to decide for yourself if you're male or female, nature does. Same with certain reputations. You or I don't get to self identify if you're a slut, loser, chad, supermodel, fuckup, tomboy, nerd, asshole etcetera. These are things other people decide for you based on how you act and look.
> 
> The fact that you have some personal headcanon that is at odds with reality is just retreating into a fantastical world where you can be whatever you want. Things don't work like that with groups of people and if you think it does, I suggest you work on it with your therapist.


Tell me more, random man on the internet who doesn't even know what I look like, how a woman in another country has to identify. 

Btw people that know me also consider me a tomboy. So even by your retarded standard I still count. 

Damn with tards like this no wonder so many girls are trooning out lol


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (May 23, 2021)

The Jews made American women garbage. I would prefer to hang with a garbage can because a garbage can doesn't talk. From this reality young men don't want to have a relationship with an Americaine so instead they think "next best thing is a bro that I can fuck." We're seeing this particularly with live screaming and how these live streamers are making profit off of this. And also only fans whores.

The thing is, tomboys don't exist naturally. Any girl who is one has been abused 100%


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> From prehistory to the late modern period a person was unlikely to move more than 100 miles from where they were born.


not true. Medieval peasants regularly went on pilgrimages to see holy sites many miles away. Are you curious about how a pilgrimage route started? (I never) Read on its history and you will comprehend peasants going back many years on those same routes that you may find yourself marching


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> not true. Medieval peasants regularly went on pilgrimages to see holy sites many miles away. Are you curious about how a pilgrimage route started? (I never) Read on its history and you will comprehend peasants going back many years on those same routes that you may find yourself marching


I am referring specifically to moving where you live. Medieval peasants not only went on pilgrimages but would often travel quite far to sell their wares, especially on the continent.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> The thing is, tomboys don't exist naturally. Any girl who is one has been abused 100%


Nah, tomboys from perfectly healthy situations exist. Brave of you to openly admit you havent spent much time around women though.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> I am referring specifically to moving where you live. Medieval peasants not only went on pilgrimages but would often travel quite far to sell their wares, especially on the continent.


I apologize for coming off too aggressive. while that is true, I can say that tomboys are evolutionarily mal-adaptive. If you think about medieval times you would need more masculine women to take care of house chores, but there is a big difference between working and socializing with men. Of course women would socialize with men, but distinctly there were the sphere of man and the sphere of women and they didn't intersect (very much). Tomboys are brainwashed by the Jewish world order to actively seek out the spaces of men which is not something a normal woman should do.


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> I apologize for coming off too aggressive. while that is true, I can say that tomboys are evolutionarily mal-adaptive. If you think about medieval times you would need more masculine women to take care of house chores, but there is a big difference between working and socializing with men. Of course women would socialize with men, but distinctly there were the sphere of man and the sphere of women and they didn't intersect (very much). Tomboys are brainwashed by the Jewish world order to actively seek out the spaces of men which is not something a normal woman should do.


Tomboys as a perpetual being are a myth. The tomboy is an expression of prepubescent femininity, before she starts wearing dresses and having boobs and not wanting to play with you in the mud anymore. If she's postpubescent that's not a tomboy it's just an ugly and maladapted girl, and you're a weirdo for wanting that. The whole point of a tomboy is that when she grows up she becomes a woman, but you still share memories of when she wasn't.
It's all about the lifetime relationship.


----------



## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Nah, tomboys from perfectly healthy situations exist. Brave of you to openly admit you havent spent much time around women though.


poisoning the well

Having tomboy traits is a defensive mechanism. It is to make oneself intentionally unappealing as possible  in order to ward of potential sexual aggressors. That's how they cope (and presumably seethe and dilate) with their abuse


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> I apologize for coming off too aggressive. while that is true, I can say that tomboys are evolutionarily mal-adaptive. If you think about medieval times you would need more masculine women to take care of house chores, but there is a big difference between working and socializing with men. Of course women would socialize with men, but distinctly there were the sphere of man and the sphere of women and they didn't intersect (very much). Tomboys are brainwashed by the Jewish world order to actively seek out the spaces of men which is not something a normal woman should do.


Medical women didn't work with men (for the most part) because they weren't allowed to, not because they were in their natural state unbrainwashed by da jooz (or whoever is /pol/s current boogeyman).


FEETLOAF said:


> Tomboys as a perpetual being are a myth. The tomboy is an expression of prepubescent femininity, before she starts wearing dresses and having boobs and not wanting to play with you in the mud anymore. If she's postpubescent that's not a tomboy it's just an ugly and maladapted girl, and you're a weirdo for wanting that. The whole point of a tomboy is that when she grows up she becomes a woman, but you still share memories of when she wasn't.
> It's all about the lifetime relationship.


"Girls have to stop being tomboys when they hit puberty because only prepubescent tomboys make my dick hard" ah yes, perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say girls are pressured to conform to gender stereotypes much more harshly once they hit puberty and why that's a huge part of them trooning out.

The point of being a tomboy is being stereotypically masculine while a girl, because that's who we happen to be as people. Tomboys don't exist for anyone but ourselves.


Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> poisoning the well
> 
> Having tomboy traits is a defensive mechanism. It is to make oneself intentionally unappealing as possible  in order to ward of potential sexual aggressors. That's how they cope (and presumably seethe and dilate) with their abuse


I thankfully never got diddled, worst I got was catcalled by creepy old dudes like all girls get once they start getting boobs and I was a tomboy long before then.

I have tomboy traits because that's just who i am and what I like. No deeper meaning.

Damn you really don't know shit about TRUE and HONEST women if you think we dilate. Conservative men posting their Ls.


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> "Girls have to stop being tomboys when they hit puberty because only prepubescent tomboys make my dick hard"


Is this what you think I said?


Android raptor said:


> perfect example of what I'm talking about when I say girls are pressured to conform to gender stereotypes much more harshly once they hit puberty and why that's a huge part of them trooning out.


You say this like asking people to conform to role models is a bad thing.


Android raptor said:


> because that's who we happen to be as people.


There is no intrinsic "who you are." You aren't special, you're just a person like anyone else. You are how you behave. If you behave like a prepubescent androgyne past puberty then you are experiencing arrested development.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> There is no intrinsic "who you are." You aren't special. You are how you behave. If you behave like a prepubescent androgyne past puberty then you are experiencing arrested development.


Maybe, but I'm also still a tomboy.

How much luck have you had turning your childhood tomboy friend into your sweetheart from the ground uplifetime relationship btw?


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Maybe, but I'm also still a tomboy.


Yeah and you're a mentally ill catlady incel on SSRIs.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> Yeah and you're a mentally ill catlady incel on SSRIs.


Roachlady, not catlady. And snakelady. And arachnidlady. Also I'm on an SNRI, not an SSRI. SSRI's are pig disgusting. Though they nuke my sex drive the same way, main reason I'm not currently drowning in pussy is because I don't really give enough of a fuck to get any most of the time. More interested in non-sexual shit like going to the park after dark to chase roaches and hopefully catch some to start a new feeder colony. 

I think you gave me a fantastic answer to my question without even acknowledging it.


----------



## FEETLOAF (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I think you gave me a fantastic answer to my question without even acknowledging it.


lol


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

FEETLOAF said:


> lol


Feel free to clarify how successful your love quest has been if I'm wrong in assuming not very


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Accept someone you dislike is a tomboy. Not all tomboys are dykes, but all dykes are a form of tomboy.


But they're distinct concepts all the same because the way the subject of either subculture approaches masculinity and femininity are different.

And _you_ are not a "dyke", as far as I can tell.


Android raptor said:


> This might come as a shock, but women get B.O. as well if we work up a sweat.


Most women, even masculine women, even masculine lesbians, are not intentionally working up a sweat so they can attain some exaggerated miasma. The point of the dyke is that they're _trying_ to attain these things as a means to create a masculine aura. Me mentioning aggression was me referring to the fact that men are on average more aggressive than women, and aggression is a typical feature of masculinity-- a feature that dykes directly seek to emulate.

At this point you're either being deliberately obtuse or you aren't familiar with the concept of dykes.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Most women, even masculine women, even masculine lesbians, are not intentionally working up a sweat so they can attain some exaggerated miasma. The point of the dyke is that they're _trying_ to attain these things as a means to create a masculine aura. Me mentioning aggression was me referring to the fact that men are on average more aggressive than women, and aggression is a typical feature of masculinity-- a feature that dykes directly seek to emulate.
> 
> At this point you're either being deliberately obtuse or you aren't familiar with the concept of dykes.


Pretty sure no one is intentionally working up a sweat solely to smells like a dude. Especially since women can smells just as nasty as men can (thanks, weeb cons). Is the idea that women who are more interested in physical activities working up a sweat solely because of that really that foreign to you? Do you really think women have some bizarre ulterior motive behind everything they do or enjoy (that has to revolve around men for some reason)?

Or maybe you just happen to exclusively run into dykes with poor hygiene for some reason. There are also plenty of extremely feminine women with poor hygiene, lord only knows how many are Beauty Parlor thread subjects.

I'm a dyke defending on how you define it. If you define it as being a woman attracted to other women, yep. Or a gay woman on the more masculine side of things. I guess I'm not like, and extreme bulldagger or dieseldyke type tho (yet).


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Pretty sure no one is intentionally working up a sweat solely to smells like a dude


"People physically and mentally castrate themselves and wear dresses because of autogynephilia? Yeah, that's plausible? Wait, _women_ who are extremely masculine work up a sweat to generate a miasma that reminds most of men? _IMPOSSIBLE.

..._but you know, some women just like wearing a masculine fragrance. Ain't no thing."

It's like you're just being contrarian.



Android raptor said:


> Is the idea that women who are more interested in physical activities working up a sweat solely because of that really that foreign to you?


We're not talking about those women.



Android raptor said:


> Do you really think women have some bizarre ulterior motive behind everything they do or enjoy (that has to revolve around men for some reason)?


_This doesn't revolve around men. _It's literally just a subculture of people who deliberately attempt to generate a masculine aura, to be distinguished from women who just enjoy traditionally masculine activities, and even women with a distinct sense of boyishness on top of that.



Android raptor said:


> If you define it as being a woman attracted to other women, yep.


That's a lesbian. If I wanted to talk about lesbians, I'd talk about lesbians.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> "People physically and mentally castrate themselves and wear dresses because of autogynephilia? Yeah, that's plausible? Wait, _women_ who are extremely masculine work up a sweat to generate a miasma that reminds most of men? _IMPOSSIBLE._


I mean, maybe some dyke out there is working up a sweat solely to smell like a musky husky because that's her weird fetish or some shit, but it's not the norm. Like any other person if a dyke has b.o. it's either an unintentional side effect from physical activity, or she has shitty hygiene. Both things that are hardly exclusive to dykes.

Why are you spending so much time around dykes with bad hygiene anyway

Btw women with autoandrophilia are chopping their tits off, putting on frilly pink lolita shit, and running around insisting they're kawaii yaoi ukes and shit. They definitely don't present or act like dykes at all, lots are actually extremely feminine (they just get squicked out by the idea of being feminine while a girl because they think feminine straight women are yucky vapid sluts while feminine gay men are super fierce and sassy just like on drag race).


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I mean, maybe some dyke out there is working up a sweat solely to smell like a musky husky because that's her weird fetish or some shit, but it's not the norm.


Considering that you have no certainty on what a "dyke" is and you didn't bother picking up the way the term was used and differentiated from "lesbian", I reckon you haven't the standing to make this statement.



Android raptor said:


> Like any other person if a dyke has b.o. it's either an unintentional side effect from physical activity, or she has shitty hygiene. Both things that are hardly exclusive to dykes.
> 
> Why are you spending so much time around dykes with bad hygiene anyway


Do you make it a mission to miss the point?


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Considering that you have no certainty on what a "dyke" is and you didn't bother picking up the way the term was used and differentiated from "lesbian", I reckon you haven't the standing to make this statement.
> 
> 
> Do you make it a mission to miss the point?


What point? That you overthink why women have body odor?


----------



## mr.moon1488 (May 23, 2021)

>As a tomboy I kinda wonder what the fetishists would think of an actual tomboy like me, who has no desire to fuck some random dude from the chans or pop out babies ever.
>I mean I am a womanchild on the psychological level of a disgusting edgy 10 year old boy, but physically I'm an adult and have been for a while.
>Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights.
>Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?
>Tomboys are masculine girls and women. Dykes are masculine gay women. Dykes are a form of tomboy, dude
>I'm in my 30s and my apartment is filled with toy dinosaurs, bugs, and spiders
>I mean, I exist and like bugs and anime and shit
>especially since I'm not girly but I'm not athletic either
>Not all tomboys are dykes, but all dykes are a form of tomboy.

@Android raptor  You're not a tomboy.  You're a lesbian feminist and most likely obese and clinically depressed with one or more comorbid mental disorders.  You're saying you're a tomboy online because you think it's somehow going to win you "they want to fuck me" points on the internet.  You've never fired a gun, you've never drunk a beer with your dad on the tailgate of a pickup truck while talking about the simple things in life, I doubt you even spent much time outdoors growing up or ever hung out with the boys because they did all the fun shit.  I seriously doubt you've ever had a platonic relationship with a dude that wasn't either gay or a male feminist.  One of the biggest commonalities I've seen with all actual tomboys is that they have healthy relationships with a strong father figure in their lives, which is likely what ultimately molded them into being tomboys in the first place.  On the contrary, your worldview implies that you've had bad experiences with men in your life, which I'm going to assume stems from an absent or abusive father figure.  Even if I'm dead wrong on the father figure side of things, you clearly fail the most basic criteria for being a tomboy, which is that you prefer to socialize with men over women.  

You will never be a real tomboy


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

mr.moon1488 said:


> You will never be a real tomboy


brb making a YWNBARW-style copypasta

at the moment i'm not really interested in arguing @Android raptor's actual tomboyishness or lack thereof i just chuckled at this line


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

mr.moon1488 said:


> >As a tomboy I kinda wonder what the fetishists would think of an actual tomboy like me, who has no desire to fuck some random dude from the chans or pop out babies ever.
> >I mean I am a womanchild on the psychological level of a disgusting edgy 10 year old boy, but physically I'm an adult and have been for a while.
> >Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights.
> >Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?
> ...


My dad died right after I turned 21, didn't exactly have much time to have beers with him.

But all the other shit yep, have done it and continue to do it. Hell, going outside playing with my dinosaurs out in the woods and creek is what got me into collecting JP toys. Most of my friends until high school were boys, something my mom and teachers hated.

I say I'm a tomboy online because i am one. I don't give a shit about dudes wanting to fuck me. I'm fucking gay. I say I'm a tomboy irl too and have long before I started using the internet.

Not obese either, damn accusing women you don't like of being fatties is some shit straight out of the girliest cow boards like PULL or lolcow farms. Like that's either hyper catty mean girl behaviour or incel shit.

Face it, a real tomboy has opinions you don't like and is an actual person instead of just a fantasy that gets your dick hard.

You will never be a real tomboy respecter until you respect real tomboys


----------



## mr.moon1488 (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Not obese either, damn accusing women you don't like of being fatties is some shit straight out of the girliest cow boards like PULL or lolcow farms. Like that's either hyper catty mean girl behaviour or incel shit.
> 
> Face it, a real tomboy has opinions you don't like and is an actual person instead of just a fantasy that gets your dick hard.


No one wants to fuck you.  You keep bringing this up because once again, you want your "they want to fuck me points" back.


----------



## The High Prophet of Truth (May 23, 2021)

There are no questions, there's just one answer and it is yes.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

mr.moon1488 said:


> No one wants to fuck you.  You keep bringing this up because once again, you want your "they want to fuck me points" back.


Unfortunately the gross dudes that won't stop cat-calling or honking at me prove otherwise.

Would be pretty cool if no one wanted to fuck me tho, at least no men

I say the answer to the tomboy question is that we exist, including those of use who continued being tomboys into adulthood, however we're full complex people instead of just the fetishistic caricature that's become popular amongst horny weeb dudes lately. The fact that the reality doesn't match the fantasy apparently upsets some dudes, as the last couple pages of this thread have shown. Including some that ironically enough ended up saying the exact same kind of bullshit that motivates girls to troon out (like the notion that being a tomboy should be a strictly prepubescent phase and girls who remain tomboys during and after puberty are gross or whatever).

The anime/chan tomboy caricature is just as much an unrealistic fantasy as yaoi boys are of gay men. If that's what your into, cool, but don't expect real tomboys to be identical to a fantasy created by and for men (just like real gay men arent like the fantasies created by and for women)


----------



## Non-Threatening Niall (May 23, 2021)

I feel like I have a bit of standing to weigh in, since I wish I could say falling for a girl only to find out she was a lesbian is something that has happened to me just once in the past.

Turbo PL incoming, but I'm too drunk and triggered to care. Let me tell you, those 120 pounds of angry, pixie-haired, lacrosse-playing, Italian cunt looked hot as fuck in my eyes since the first time I saw her operating the circular saw. After a few years, it was only a matter of weeks before she became Mrs. Niall, but life had already ruled otherwise, I reckon.

Long story short, guess what I am trying to say is, the last time I watched any sort of Japanese shit was when I was ~8 and Yu Gi Oh was a thing. So no, when it comes to weeabooism and tomboy appreciation, correlation does not imply causation.

Arrested development? You bet. Am I a faggot in denial? Draw your own conclusions, I don't give a fuck.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

friends o' niall said:


> I feel like I have a bit of standing to weigh in, since I wish I could say falling for a girl only to find out she was a lesbian is something that has happened to me just once in the past.
> 
> Turbo PL incoming, but I'm too drunk and triggered to care. Let me tell you, those 120 pounds of angry, pixie-haired, lacrosse-playing, Italian cunt looked hot as fuck in my eyes since the first time I saw her operating the circular saw. After a few years, it was only a matter of weeks before she became Mrs. Niall, but life had already ruled otherwise, I reckon.
> 
> ...


Damn sounds hot AF ngl

I normally prefer more feminine girls but petite athletic girls with pixie cuts attitudes are fine too


----------



## mr.moon1488 (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Unfortunately the gross dudes that won't stop cat-calling or honking at me prove otherwise.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

I was looking for elucidation on tomboys as well as tomboy appreciation/fetishism and instead the thread becomes an Android raptor thread.

I don't even know how that's possible. I guess it's kinda fine since it's still largely topical, but still.

Also that copypasta is harder to make than I thought.


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I was looking for elucidation on tomboys as well as tomboy appreciation/fetishism and instead the thread becomes an Android raptor thread.
> 
> I don't even know how that's possible. I guess it's kinda fine since it's still largely topical, but still.
> 
> Also that copypasta is harder to make than I thought.


To be fair I'm probably one of the more active tomboys on this humble fruit forum so me sperging in a thread about tomboys is on-topic.

Hell I'm pretty sure I'm the only tomboy that's been posting throughout most of the thread, thread seems to be quite the sausage fest otherwise.

Ngl it's pretty gay yall turned a thread about tomboys into a sausagefest


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 23, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Hell I'm pretty sure I'm the only tomboy that's been posting throughout most of the thread, thread seems to be quite the sausage fest otherwise.


this thread is only six pages long how did you miss the other self-avowed tomboys/tomboy adjacents/women with male interests


----------



## Android raptor (May 23, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> this thread is only six pages long how did you miss the other self-avowed tomboys/tomboy adjacents/women with male interests


I said most of the thread, not all of it. Last couple pages have been me sperging and yall sperging back/butthurt a tomboy says stuff you don't agree with


----------



## Schway (May 24, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I was looking for elucidation on tomboys as well as tomboy appreciation/fetishism and instead the thread becomes an Android raptor thread.



Are those a thing? Because I was wondering why this thread was beginning to morph to look more and more like the Abortion thread. Same people as well.


----------



## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Schway said:


> Are those a thing? Because I was wondering why this thread was beginning to morph to look more and more like the Abortion thread. Same people as well.


Idk but it seems like half the time I post in the Thunderdome the thread gets hijacked because people got booty-blasted over something I said (and ironically enough often end up proving the points I was trying to make, in this case the fact that lots of dudes arent actually interested in real tomboys and that real tomboys differ from their idealized fantasy).

At least this time i have the excuse that I'm a tomboy and thus should have a right to post in a tomboy thread.

Anyway any other tomboy Kiwis out there? Or former tomboy Kiwis?

I think I speak for lots of tomboys when I say part of the reason it's worrying seeing so many girls troon out is because we know we probably would've been trooned out had we been kids within the last decade. I could easily see teen me getting sucked into that shit for a host of reasons (though all the crap I was getting for refusing to conform to gender stereotypes after puberty started and thinking if I was a boy I wouldn't have been getting that crap is a big one).


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I think I speak for lots of tomboys





Android raptor said:


> At least this time i have the excuse that I'm a tomboy and thus should have a right to post in a tomboy thread.


You don't speak for anyone besides yourself. You're in your thirties, you're a dyke. You're not a tomboy.

The only thing that makes you mimic being a tomboy is that you're so autistic and autism is a male trait and makes someone act like the worst type of men. Not taking social cues or hints unless they're spelled out and even then being kinda oblivious about them.

But you're obviously a woman, because tomboys or men are usually not insufferable in the way that they make everything about themselves and soapboxing in a way like they're running for office or a neighborhood committee.  Men may be insufferable, but they are in a different way when they are.

Tomboys instead are kinda like one of the guys. They can take a joke. They can act like a rank and file member and take a step back when people are being annoyed with them.

You're the other type of woman when it comes to male groups, the kind that infiltrates, that half the group loathes and wants to kick out but can't because the other half is blinded by the fact that it's a woman and their hormones do the thinking.



Poppavalyim Andropoff said:


> I married a tomboy.
> Did I buy myself a lifelong bus pass ticket to fagtown
> Much confused here ..


Nah, you're fine. Lgbtq just tries to ruin everything.



Zero Day Defense said:


> My impression of tomboys is that there's a distinct boyishness that nonetheless doesn't even mostly obscure their femininity, in contrast to dykes who are actively trying to snuff out said femininity as some means of compensation-- the only place they fail is in their still having their female machinery.


This is really accurate and insightful.



Fek said:


> Tomboy shit _seems_ fine, and maybe it actually works out long term for some guys out there to date 'em. Just..man, I'd highly advise against dating one that shares your favorite male-centric interests with you. You'll think it's cool at first until reality sets in. You're still dealing with a woman, tomboy or not, and she's gonna insist on invading what was once your happy place (regardless of doing it alone or with the guys). To her, sharing that interest means she's going to see any time spent on it as "together time" now. Congrats, you've lost your "you time" and now get to spend it with someone who will insist they can keep up with you (possibly even believing it) while almost certainly never being able to do so (ugly truth of life, ladies). It will ruin the relationship in a hurry or make you miserable for life.
> 
> I guess a greater lesson in general here is be fucking careful what interests you share with your significant other. You do not want to end up doing literally everything together.


Huh... so that's why I've always ended up avoiding women in that shared the same passions.

Though I've never personally had the problem of her wanting to invade my time in any way, because if it starts to bother me, I just don't let her. Maybe I protect my borders early and vigilantly enough?

I think it's hypothetically possible of doing a lot of stuff together, but I admit I haven't seen it in practice. I've dated one woman where we really did genuinely share the same taste in almost everything. The only issue is that it could get weirdly competitive from time to time.

What you describe sounds almost like someone who regrets turning their hobby into a job.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Idk but it seems like half the time I post in the Thunderdome the thread gets hijacked because people got booty-blasted over something I said


Ah... you post in a thread, and then the thread ends up _hijacked_. 

Who's doing the hijacking? 

Hell if I know, but people that already posted in the thread end up "being booty-blasted"... over something you said.

This is like when women talk about themselves being a "storm" that "drama" always seems to happen around, or something similar. More likely than actually being that ignorant, they're actively unwilling to admit that they're active agents or assess what exactly it is they do because that would involve taking responsibility and/or being introspective.



Android raptor said:


> (and ironically enough often end up proving the points I was trying to make, in this case the fact that lots of dudes arent actually interested in real tomboys and that real tomboys differ from their idealized fantasy).


A slew of commenters outright rejected the premise that you're a tomboy, and took to labeling you a dyke. You assert that "dyke" is a subset of "tomboy", but they're obviously distinct terms and in practice they're motivated by and manifest as different things (hell, even the manifestation of the masculine traits is remarkably different)-- a fact with which you're unfamiliar and seem to deliberately dance around with dismissals that don't even wholly dismiss ("some women do X just because" doesn't detract from the fact that some other women do X for a specific purpose that can be inferred by the effect of the action, e.g. imparting a masculine aura, in combination with other mannerisms that impart the same). 

(And may I say, this argument is severely loathsome. It suggests that there are people who do things for _zero reason_, as though they operate without intent-- but worse, the person making this argument only makes it in order to dismiss the specific assertion of their interlocutor, and you see this because _they themselves start theorizing other explanations for the action in question_ (e.g. "some women just like to wear a masculine fragrance", "some women just find those clothes comfortable", "some women just have bad hygiene")_._)

You complain about rotten men telling women about how categories of female identity work, only for you to admit that you have no certainty about what the term "dyke" refers to, after repeatedly demonstrating that you don't.

And let's not pretend that a lack of interest in _you_ or your kind of person is indicative of a lack of interest in "real tomboys"-- that's absurd.

Anyways, I'm gonna backtrack a bit (this has actually been a very thought-provoking exchange of ideas through and through):



Lemmingwise said:


> I am not convinced tomboys are disappearing. I accepted the premise initially, but aren't we just getting older?


That's something worth considering in broad strokes, but when people discuss tomboys "disappearing", they're generally referring to a rise in girls (within the burgeoning generation, actually) identifying as FtM or something very adjacent when the given rationales for that identification have a lot more in common with the "tomboy" or "boyish girl" designation, all of this happening in a culture that gives more positive social feedback for identifying as transgender and a venue-- the internet, in particular places like Tumblr or deviantArt-- where girls can easily be groomed or otherwise aggressively influenced into believing that identifying as transgender is completely rational given their known general disposition and further encouraged by the positive attention those identifications are demonstrated to attract in those circles.


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 24, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> That's something worth considering in broad strokes, but when people discuss tomboys "disappearing", they're generally referring to a rise in girls (within the burgeoning generation, actually) identifying as FtM or something very adjacent when the given rationales for that identification have a lot more in common with the "tomboy" or "boyish girl" designation, all of this happening in a culture that gives more positive social feedback for identifying as transgender and a venue-- the internet, in particular places like Tumblr or deviantArt-- where girls can easily be groomed or otherwise aggressively influenced into believing that identifying as transgender is completely rational given their known general disposition and further encouraged by the positive attention those identifications are demonstrated to attract in those circles.


I just don't think they're made from the same soup. Isn't tumblr mostly extinct by now, anyways?

But these are from the groups of girls that might have been goths, art girls and nerdy girls, they're into subcultures. The lgbtq thing is just a new subculture in some sense.

I don't think tomboys are really a subculture in the same way, nor made from the same type of person. There's just something a little more aloof and grounded about them.

The lgbtq types are rather made from the same dna as the overbearing churchladies of yesteryear; oversocialised.

I mean I'm saying this to test my view against that of others and hoping people either vocally agree or disagree.

What really is a tomboy anyways?


----------



## annoyingfuck (May 24, 2021)

DicksOutForChauvin said:


> Let me tell you a story from my childhood.
> Mid-eighties. I'm in highschool. The boys and I pass recess and shit by racing each other down the track. One day, this gorgeous blonde with a pixie cut walks up to us and wants to race up the track. We let her, most of us take it easy on her so she can have fun. This girl was funny, sexy, and very direct. Had never met any girl like her before. It was then that I knew I had a thing for tomboys.
> 
> Tomboys are a type. Distinctly feminine and girly but *interested  *in the hobbies and hanging out in male dominated fields. That's what the attraction to the Tomboy is. Usually no shitty make-up, athletic body, and a very open and direct personality that contrasts the usual and tedious endless beating around the bush shit that women tend to do when they can't make up their minds on something. I don't think they're like this because they "think like boys" but because they're trying to fit in with men and have to adjust to a masculine mindset. Might have changed since my day, but it's just like guys who are into goth chicks. They offer something different enough from Tiffany that they're alluring.


This is spot on (majority of 'old style' tomboys, are *highly* recognisable as female, they know they are female, a lot have long hair, and they don't want to be anything else. They don't wear 'guys clothes' because they want to hide anything, they wear them because they are comfortable, and suited to the activities they love to do), until the 'trying to fit in with men'.

It's not that they are 'trying to', they already do fit in with men, precisely due to the open and direct, no bullshit personality. They aren't interested in mind games, and can turn their hands and heads to pretty much anything.

Often it's the men that have to adjust to having a tomboy around, that they aren't there so the men can get in her pants, they are there because the men offer a way of life that suits the tomboy. The tomboy doesn't have to watch their mouths, doesn't have to second guess everything they say, waiting for the one _precious_ that always finds some way, to be offended by what the tomboy says.

Todays _appropriated _tomboy, is far from what a tomboy actually is. Like everything else in clown world, a tomboy is now someone that has been forced/coerced/confused to take on a persona due to a perceived tomboy trait, like short hair, or not liking pink, despite not having any of the innate tomboy traits.

The actual tomboys are now told they aren't female, they are male, hence they are 'trans' and should get their tits cut off as soon as possible.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (May 24, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> But these are from the groups of girls that might have been goths, art girls and nerdy girls, they're into subcultures. The lgbtq thing is just a new subculture in some sense.
> 
> I don't think tomboys are really a subculture in the same way, nor made from the same type of person. There's just something a little more aloof and grounded about them.


I may have been imprecise in delineating the tomboy phenomenon as an actual subculture as opposed to a loose collection of people who fit a stereotype-- at the time, it was the best way I could convey the idea for context's sake.

With that said, you may be unnecessarily idealizing the archetype in distinguishing the kind of person who "becomes" a tomboy from the kind of person who becomes a goth, or nerd, or art girl. There are inherent differences, and those who become the latter are making a deliberate decision (versus the tomboy who just operates according to what she gravitates towards, which, typing that out really contextualizes what you meant by the idea that the tomboy phenomenon isn't really a subculture in the same way the other examples you listed are). At the end of it all, they're all women, and women are women-- even if the tomboy lacks to some extent the typical mannerisms of a woman. 

Additionally, it'd be rare for a girl to be a permanent maverick. Even if they're not initially the kind of person to insert themselves into subcultures, they can very well become that kind of person by way of peer pressure, natural internal shift, or some combination of the two. If it's just that they end up in orbit of a subculture without divesting most of their prior personality, and they suffer in some way for this, I think that's one avenue for them to be influenced into believing that SRS/HRT is a panacea.



Lemmingwise said:


> The lgbtq types are rather made from the same dna as the overbearing churchladies of yesteryear; oversocialised.


"Oversocialized"... now that's a concept I haven't considered.



annoyingfuck said:


> It's not that they are 'trying to', they already do fit in with men,





annoyingfuck said:


> Often it's the men that have to adjust to having a tomboy around,


So, they often don't fit in with men?

I think you're being imprecise-- rather than "already fitting in with men", tomboys are _more capable_ of fitting in with men because of their mannerisms. On the other hand, the fact that they're women and the men they seek to fit in with are, well, presumably straight men, is a hurdle of substance. This hurdle is much smaller if we're talking about prepubescent children, of course.


----------



## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> You don't speak for anyone besides yourself. You're in your thirties, you're a dyke. You're not a tomboy.
> 
> The only thing that makes you mimic being a tomboy is that you're so autistic and autism is a male trait and makes someone act like the worst type of men. Not taking social cues or hints unless they're spelled out and even then being kinda oblivious about them.
> 
> ...


But zero day defense said im not a dyke 

Sounds like your personal definition/fantasy of a tomboy is a woman who is still quiet and never says anything you don't like. Which yeah nah, ain't how it is in reality. 

Real tomboys like myself don't live up to the neckbeard fantasy, neckbeards REEEEEEE, just another day in the Autism Thunderdome


----------



## Lemmingwise (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Sounds like your personal definition/fantasy of a tomboy is a woman who is still quiet and never says anything you don't like. Which yeah nah, ain't how it is in reality.


No, but if they give a putdown it's actually something that is either funny or something that stings instead of the entitled whining that you do.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> No, but if they give a putdown it's actually something that is either funny or something that stings instead of the entitled whining that you do.


Your giant seething text walls seem to indicate that i stung something.

Anyway I'm a tomboy


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## Zero Day Defense (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Sounds like your personal definition/fantasy of a tomboy is a woman who is still quiet and never says anything you don't like.


If female behavior really is a binary of "ineffective counselor" and "social circle hijacking attention whore" (the antithesis of what Lemmingwise actually said tomboys aren't) I may as well give up seeking intimacy with women. Or anything, for that matter.

And your actual tomboyishness aside, you're still a peculiar case because of the gestalt of your person.


----------



## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If female behavior really is a binary of "ineffective counselor" and "social circle hijacking attention whore" (the antithesis of what Lemmingwise actually said tomboys aren't) I may as well give up seeking intimacy with women. Or anything, for that matter.


I mean I think you might as well give up getting sex from women, but not because of any bullshit about "female behavior" or whatever.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I mean I think you might as well give up getting sex from women, but not because of any bullshit about "female behavior" or whatever.


I don't think that people who automatically think I was talking about sex unmoored from the general idea of intimacy are in a position to give any such suggestions-- not that that's your only disqualifier.


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## KateHikes14 (May 24, 2021)

Taco Bell Chihuahua said:


> I can think of a reason why women gravitate towards the tomboy aesthetic.
> 
> We live in an age where the modern woman have to work more often than not.  The economy is not what it used to be and the roles of women in society have changed. Being a stay at home wife or mother is not a concept a lot of people can afford anymore. So what do women choose to do for careers? Well, they explore their interests in working fields just as any man would do.
> Let’s talk about entry level blue collar and labor jobs, a primarily male dominated work force. The payout for the jobs is lucrative, with benefit packages and bonuses abound. But being a woman coming into these environments, it’s rough to say the least. I am speaking from many years of personal experience. I don’t want to say a lot of men in blue collar hate women because it frames them poorly, and there are good people and bad people.  However a majority of these men are skeptical of a woman’s role in hard labor.  There tends to be a strong boys club mentality to these jobs, and women just don’t fit their age old narratives.
> ...


Part of that is the knowledge that if you can't hack it, your coworkers will have to pick up your slack. If you can, ok? You accomplished the minimum. It's a prejudice sure, and while it may not be fair to the competent it sure does save time, effort, and hope spent on the incompetent. It already is shitty odds with hiring a male, hiring a woman? Even worse odds.

If someone told me "X is a tomboy" and they liked women, I'd say "oh a dyke?" Where I am and the places I've been, tomboy implies heterosexuality in adult women. Maybe tomboy being sexuality neutral is like a "pronouns in the bio" thing.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't think that people who automatically think I was talking about sex unmoored from the general idea of intimacy are in a position to give any such suggestions-- not that that's your only disqualifier.


You ain't getting any "intimacy" from women either


KateHikes14 said:


> If someone told me "X is a tomboy" and they liked women, I'd say "oh a dyke?" Where I am and the places I've been, tomboy implies heterosexuality in adult women. Maybe tomboy being sexuality neutral is like a "pronouns in the bio" thing.


Yeah nah this thread is the first I've heard anyone say they associate being a tomboy with any specific sexual orientation. 

For me tomboy really is the identity I've always felt describes me best. Idk man, I'm like what would happen if a gross edgy 12 year old boy got his dying wish to be reincarnated in the body of a woman with great tits. I'm basically living the dream with my dinosaurs and bugs near a bunch of creeks and patches of woods to play around in. 

Sticking it out and remaining true to myself and never giving up my interests even with all the bullshit social pressure and bullying in adolescence was worth it. For adolescent tomboys it might feel like your only options are either conforming to gender stereotypes and remain a girl or Troon out so you can keep being who you are (because if you aren't a girl you won't get pressured to conform to gender stereotypes associated with being a girl), but that's bullshit. A post on the other farms suggested there needs to be an "it gets better" type project for tomboys and other gender non-conforming girls and woman and I don't exactly disagree (though Lord only knows how many death and rape threats the organizers of a project like that would get from troons). 

It really does get better, and if you remain true to yourself and remain a tomboy into adulthood the payoff is worth it even if it's not an easy road. I've made some of my 10 year old self's wildest dreams come true and the satisfaction of knowing that is worth all the hell I got as a teen.


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## KateHikes14 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Yeah nah this thread is the first I've heard anyone say they associate being a tomboy with any specific sexual orientation.
> 
> For me tomboy really is the identity I've always felt describes me best. Idk man, I'm like what would happen if a gross edgy 12 year old boy got his dying wish to be reincarnated in the body of a woman with great tits. I'm basically living the dream with my dinosaurs and bugs near a bunch of creeks and patches of woods to play around in. Sticking it out and remain


To be fair calling adult women tom-boys is relatively new, but it seems superflous to specify a lesbian as being more masculine.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

KateHikes14 said:


> To be fair calling adult women tom-boys is relatively new, but it seems superflous to specify a lesbian as being more masculine.


There are some extremely feminine lesbians out there. The term lesbian only implies being a woman exclusively attracted to women. Lipstick lesbians are definitely a thing.


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## KateHikes14 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> There are some extremely feminine lesbians out there. The term lesbian only implies being a woman exclusively attracted to women. Lipstick lesbians are definitely a thing.


What's "out there" and what people experience are two different things, but they're certainly not a tomboy at that point.


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## All Cops Are Based (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> For me tomboy really is the identity I've always felt describes me best. Idk man, I'm like what would happen if a gross edgy 12 year old boy got his dying wish to be reincarnated in the body of a woman with great tits. I'm basically living the dream with my dinosaurs and bugs near a bunch of creeks and patches of woods (words words words words)



another thread ruined because this r/femaledatingstrategy reject had to turn it into her cringey blog


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

KateHikes14 said:


> What's "out there" and what people experience are two different things, but they're certainly not a tomboy at that point.


I mean yeah, lipstick lesbians aren't tomboys because being a tomboy means you're on the more boyish side of things.


All Cops Are Based said:


> another thread ruined because this r/femaledatingstrategy reject had to turn it into her cringey blog


It's Thunderdome. The idea of a Thunderdome thread being ruined is like pissing in an ocean made of piss


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## Agent Abe Caprine (May 24, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> What really is a tomboy anyways?


A miserable little pile of secrets.


----------



## Some Badger (May 24, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> That's something worth considering in broad strokes, but when people discuss tomboys "disappearing", they're generally referring to a rise in girls (within the burgeoning generation, actually) identifying as FtM or something very adjacent when the given rationales for that identification have a lot more in common with the "tomboy" or "boyish girl" designation, all of this happening in a culture that gives more positive social feedback for identifying as transgender and a venue-- the internet, in particular places like Tumblr or deviantArt-- where girls can easily be groomed or otherwise aggressively influenced into believing that identifying as transgender is completely rational given their known general disposition and further encouraged by the positive attention those identifications are demonstrated to attract in those circles.


I suspect this situation is one of the bigger contributing factors as to why tomboys have become more of a meme as of late. The growing trend of girls who aren't/don't feel traditionally feminine end up trooning out or coming to the conclusion they're lesbians makes heterosexual tomboys seem like rarer finds by comparison, both online and irl. Coupled with the fact that a lot of young men today are starved for intimacy, it only makes sense for them to view tomboys as an astronomically rare type of woman.

Minor PL but my brother has been simping for the same chick from college for like 6 years. I think he believes he's lucked out because she's also into guns and fishing and works an engineering job like him while also being interested in men. Tomboy scarcity feels like a palpable reality when every supposed "not like the other girls" chick online goes FtM in like a couple years.


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## Wuornos (May 24, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You mean the ones who catfish you in real life with their pounds of makeup caked to their faces?
> 
> _Those_ feminine women?


You do realise not all feminine women wear heavy make-up, right?


----------



## rotpocket (May 24, 2021)

Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?

Personally speaking, as something of a tomboy myself, it was never a direct decision. I grew up doing 'men's work' and wasn't much different than the boys except that I was a girl, and thus one day the boys started asking me out and it got awkward. Obviously I liked standard girly things, it was just my biggest interests didn't fit the mold. 


Android raptor said:


> Sticking it out and remaining true to myself and never giving up my interests even with all the bullshit social pressure and bullying in adolescence was worth it. For adolescent tomboys it might feel like your only options are either conforming to gender stereotypes and remain a girl or Troon out so you can keep being who you are (because if you aren't a girl you won't get pressured to conform to gender stereotypes associated with being a girl), but that's bullshit. A post on the other farms suggested there needs to be an "it gets better" type project for tomboys and other gender non-conforming girls and woman and I don't exactly disagree (though Lord only knows how many death and rape threats the organizers of a project like that would get from troons).


How Android's here worded it is a good summary; it's just who you ARE versus something you choose. There's a lot of pressure on young girls to like pink, princesses, unicorns, makeup, dresses, ribbons, to want to stay inside and play with dolls and do their hair versus.. anything else, really. If you had outside interests, you weren't considered 'girly' enough to fit in with other girls; stuff like enjoying video games, farm work (not gardening), dinosaurs, cars, wanting to wear just a plain cotton t-shirt with a pair of old jeans and beat up shoes, bicycles, outdoor activities, etc. the list goes on. As you get older, and you don't start becoming more feminine with long pretty hair and makeup and cute, fashionable outfits you get called a lesbian, a dyke, similar insults/teasing, you get told you're more like a dude and that's gross. It makes you stand out from other girls, and it can be alienating; I think that's why a lot of 'tomboys' grew into alt. fashion styles like goth, emo, skater (is this still a thing?), etc., joined communities where you can be yourself without being ashamed/different (LGBT for example, big emphasis on tear down gender stereotypes there), or a few became more basic, standard "girly-girls" to fit in. 

I wouldn't even say tomboys/masculine girls think "I wish I was a born a boy", it's much more of a "I wish I could enjoy these things without being called a tranny dyke." I think many of the nonbinary types today are tomboys who wanted to keep their femininity, but be accepted for their more stereotypically masculine interests; that, and they're being told because they have masculine interests they MUST be trans or nonbinary. 

This kind of ideology applies to men as well, effeminate men are typically called gay; it's with both sexes, the pressure to conform to a certain role. Not necessarily a bad thing, I don't think, but for those who don't easily fit in they get made fun of/set apart as different. 


Now with the recent rise of tomboy fetishism? Just another meme trend of what girl's hot. A few months ago it was mommies. Just a trend, typically spread through anime and cartoon characters. Sometimes certain women just get paraded as being the best, and you'll see it come and go. I don't think there's much more to it than a brief interest in tomboys; in a few months it'll be something new.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 24, 2021)

Moloko said:


> You do realise not all feminine women wear heavy make-up, right?


Enough do to keep the makeup industry more than afloat and normalize the concept.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

seckdeck said:


> Are there any recurring psychologies within the subculture more complex than "I gravitate towards boyish things" (e.g. "I wish I was born a boy")?
> 
> Personally speaking, as something of a tomboy myself, it was never a direct decision. I grew up doing 'men's work' and wasn't much different than the boys except that I was a girl, and thus one day the boys started asking me out and it got awkward. Obviously I liked standard girly things, it was just my biggest interests didn't fit the mold.
> 
> ...


Pretty much, when I wanted to be a boy it was more about wanting to be who I am and like the shit I like with getting haggled for it (as well as not get catcalled by creepy adult men). It wasn't so much actual gender dysphoria as it was a view that if I was born with a dick maybe people would give me less shit. 

Up until high school i had a pretty hard time fitting in with other girls because they weren't really interested in the shit I was. I got shoved in Girl Scouts and all it really did was show me 1. Girl Scouts is lame af 2. being around average normie girls was alienating to kid me. 

At the same time in 4th grade I got put in a BD class where I was the only girl and I made friend pretty easily there and finally felt like I was with kids I got along with who liked the same shit I did. My mom and teachers acted like it was this big crisis I didnt have any friends who were girls, which I thought was retarded because I didn't give a fuck what gender my friends were as long as they liked the same shit i did. 

I've mentioned before but i feel like autistic girls especially are under extreme pressure to conform to social norms (including gender stereotypes). Non-autistic "autism specialists" tend to have this mentality that autistic kids must be forced to conform to social norms as rigidly as possible, and that includes bitching out autistic girls for having interests that are "inappropriate" for their age/gender. Meanwhile non-autistic kids already know all the social rules so they can bend or break them about, but us poor subhuman autists don't understand anything at all so of course we have to be held to the most rigid standards. At least that's the impression I always got from them.

In reality it's not that autistic girls don't understand gender stereotypes, we're just more likely to see them as the dumb arbitrary bullshit they are and reject them accordingly. That combined with "autism specialists" putting them under massive pressure to conform to them is the main reason I think so many girls who troon out are autistic. 

Tl;dr, being able to continue being a tomboy into adolescence is an uphill battle especially for autistic girls, and I think so many are saying "fuck it, then I'm a boy/nonbinary whatever" as a way to continue being who they are and get people off their back.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Pretty much, when I wanted to be a boy it was more about wanting to be who I am and like the shit I like with getting haggled for it (as well as not get catcalled by creepy adult men). It wasn't so much actual gender dysphoria as it was a view that if I was born with a dick maybe people would give me less shit.
> 
> Up until high school i had a pretty hard time fitting in with other girls because they weren't really interested in the shit I was. I got shoved in Girl Scouts and all it really did was show me 1. Girl Scouts is lame af 2. being around average normie girls was alienating to kid me.
> 
> ...


Bitch, we're talking about a trend of the week for beauty standards with straight dudes. Why did you make it into a blogpost about Autism and Troons?


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Bitch, we're talking about a trend of the week for beauty standards with straight dudes. Why did you make it into a blogpost about Autism and Troons?


I thought this thread was just about tomboys in general, and iirc even the OP mentioned the phenomenon of them trooning out. 

If you wanna talk about tomboys don't be surprised when a few tomboys pop into the convo


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> I thought this thread was just about tomboys in general, and iirc even the OP mentioned the phenomenon of them trooning out.
> 
> If you wanna talk about tomboys don't be surprised when a few tomboys pop into the convo


And up to a point it was helpful. One of the big issues was surrounding the question is the prevalence of gender stereotypes. But it falls apart on two principles
1. You started your involvement in the thread by trying to define Tomboy exclusively along your own terms which just so happens encapsulate yourself when nobody really entirely agreed on it
2. The other large driving premise is why young men are holding up the ideal for _straight or bi_ women. Your perspective on the issue was helpful from the point of view of femininity and the way its processed to an extent but being a lesbian does limit you in regards to the gender relations aspect by how it changes the sexual and romantic dynamics we can draw from. No man would go for an explicit butch lesbian except out of delusion.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> And up to a point it was helpful. One of the big issues was surrounding the question is the prevalence of gender stereotypes. But it falls apart on two principles
> 1. You started your involvement in the thread by trying to define Tomboy exclusively along your own terms which just so happens encapsulate yourself when nobody really entirely agreed on it
> 2. The other large driving premise is why young men are holding up the ideal for _straight or bi_ women. Your perspective on the issue was helpful from the point of view of femininity and the way its processed to an extent but being a lesbian does limit you in regards to the gender relations aspect by how it changes the sexual and romantic dynamics we can draw from. No man would go for an explicit butch lesbian except out of delusion.


Lotta delusional dudes honking at me then and shit, it's fukkin annoying 

Seriously why do guys catcall, it's annoying AF and I've never heard of any woman liking it.


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Lotta delusional dudes honking at me then and shit, it's fukkin annoying
> 
> Seriously why do guys catcall, it's annoying AF and I've never heard of any woman liking it.


Bored


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Bored


If your bored go poke around nearby woods or look under logs and rocks to see if theres anything neat, no excuse to harass random women just minding their business walking around outside


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> If your bored go poke around nearby woods or look under logs and rocks to see if theres anything neat, no excuse to harass random women just minding their business walking around outside


Thanks for the PSA and assuming I randomly catcall butch lesbians.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Thanks for the PSA and assuming I randomly catcall butch lesbians.


Not you, I meant like in general, like why don't dudes who catcall just look for cool stuff under rocks if they're bored 

Theres cool stuff under rocks like millipedes, centipedes, and if you're really lucky you might find a salamander


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## Shadfan666xxx000 (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Not you, I meant like in general, like why don't dudes who catcall just look for cool stuff under rocks if they're bored
> 
> Theres cool stuff under rocks like millipedes, centipedes, and if you're really lucky you might find a salamander


Because most men don't think of bugs as anything but stuff that should stay off your skin and house. Plus, a woman who is obviously trying to be well dressed for an occasion might like a good compliment. Keyword being good.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Because most men don't think of bugs as anything but stuff that should stay off your skin and house. Plus, a woman who is obviously trying to be well dressed for an occasion might like a good compliment. Keyword being good.


Theres a difference between a good complement and catcalling tho. And I'm pretty much never well dressed

Most people in general think that way about bugs. It seems to be mostly kids that think otherwise, stereotypically boys.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (May 24, 2021)

Android raptor said:
			
		

> I'm Not Like Other Girls™


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## Gaming Gamer (May 24, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> This arguement literally applies to every single topic ever discussed by two or more people. I have some really bad news for you if this causes you discomfort.


I'm late, but this is shit bait and not even worth calling you an autist over it. You literally omitted the first sentence of my quote and yes it is highly applicable to the rest of the quote. Why? The shit show that has become this thread is exactly what I was warning about in my quote. I say "hey let's have music discussion" people know what to discuss because it has been defined properly. But I say "hey let's have a tomboy discussion" its going to be a shit show. This thread is a shining example of that. No one has the same definition as to what makes a tomboy.



CheezzyMach said:


> Got to ask but are tomboys actually a thing?
> 
> Because I've seen a lot of girls who are into shit like Star Wars,sports,video games,anime and bugs while also being interested in typical girl shit like jewelry and makeup.
> 
> Might just be a personal thing but from what I've observed simply liking guy things doesn't make one a tomboy


This is one of the points I was making. Not to sound like a male feminist or anything but I feel labeling women as a tomboy so quickly takes away from their achievements in that particular field. As society progresses women are being included in more & more activities so much so very little is a "guy exclusive thing" these days. All those things you listed are no longer guy exclusive and labeling them a tomboy thing is narrow minded because the real question should be "what else are they into?" Just because a woman does something that is male dominated she's now a tomboy? People in general would be hard pressed to find a common activity that isn't already male dominated. But just because it is doesn't mean a woman participating is a "tomboy".



Scale Smerch said:


> The recent spike in interest is definitely fetish-driven, but it's over a specific variety of fetish. The manga/anime world these days for example classifies a tomboy as any sort of athletic girl with short hair and a love a sports. They are toned, often muscular, and almost always shy and inexperienced with love, which adds a sort of authenticity a lot of guys crave with a passion. It's pretty much become a sort fusion category that crosses over into a lot of different fetish territory so no surprise it's increased in popularity (and given a lot the wrong idea about what constitutes a tomboy).


This is a super important point waaaaay more important than anything else in this thread. People throwing in cultural differences into this discussion and no one knows what the fuck they are talking about anymore. "Culturally Japan sees women this way, therefore I love tomboys." Meanwhile compare that to a more progressive society the idea of a tomboy has mostly fallen out of relevancy and one has to really reach just to find a tomboy these days. There was a guy in this thread talking about his tomboy experience in the 80s and all I could think about is 40 years has passed since then. Things are (vastly) different now.



Android raptor said:


> To be fair I'm probably one of the more active tomboys on this humble fruit forum so me sperging in a thread about tomboys is on-topic.
> 
> Hell I'm pretty sure I'm the only tomboy that's been posting throughout most of the thread, thread seems to be quite the sausage fest otherwise.
> 
> Ngl it's pretty gay yall turned a thread about tomboys into a sausagefest


As a guy I agree with a lot of the things you are saying. Nuance gets thrown out over time and things are getting oversimplified to such a degree that people are now conflating the lesbian look with heterosexuality. I as a straight guy am not attracted to the lesbian look because that's not for me, thats for lesbians. Even with someone that looks like Strange Æons with the short hair also not for me. Why? Because its not meant for me as a straight guy. Typically though "her look" is the kinda look I like in women. Short hair to that degree is where it becomes unappealing to me.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 24, 2021)

Gaming Gamer said:


> Not to sound like a male feminist or anything but I feel labeling women as a tomboy so quickly takes away from their achievements in that particular field.


The concept has nothing to do with achievement.



Gaming Gamer said:


> All those things you listed are no longer guy exclusive and labeling them a tomboy thing is narrow minded because the real question should be "what else are they into?"


I don't think anybody so far as labeled those things as common interests of the tomboy, though-- at least, not ones to be considered. I believe that idea was even repudiated as supposing that a tomboy is just a "female soyboy consoomer", an assessment I find convincing.

There are things that are male dominated because of some fluke, and things that are male dominated because they speak to masculinity. I'd consider something like Star Wars an example of the former, and mechanics and other hard labor activities that demand masculine physical advantages to be an example of the latter. What about Star Wars is specifically geared towards men? What masculine qualities does it seize upon?

On the other end of things, there are plenty of fields once male-dominated that are now receiving more female attention and involvement, yet we know that there are fields (such as nursing) that will continue to be female-dominant principally because innate female qualities lead to a gravitation to that field in a way that innate male qualities do not.

Also operative is the _reason_ why interest is had, which speaks to the thought process of the subject. Intuitively, if a woman were to take interest in starkly masculine interests for reasons rather similar to those that men have, I'll be inclined to find them "tomboyish".

That said, I think I made an error in not considering the question of "what constitutes a tomboy" before anything else. That, in itself, is a valuable discussion.


Gaming Gamer said:


> People throwing in cultural differences into this discussion and no one knows what the fuck they are talking about anymore. "Culturally Japan sees women this way, therefore I love tomboys." Meanwhile compare that to a more progressive society the idea of a tomboy has mostly fallen out of relevancy and one has to really reach just to find a tomboy these days. There was a guy in this thread talking about his tomboy experience in the 80s and all I could think about is 40 years has passed since then. Things are (vastly) different now.


The one you cite still seems to assert that the concept of "tomboy" indeed has a definition, but what is presently considered "tomboy" is substantially influenced by Japanese pop culture/fetishism and accordingly deviates greatly from real life.

In contrast, your argument is that there's no agreed upon definition of the term to the point that any conversation about tomboys is meaningless, between individual and cultural perspective differences.


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## CheezzyMach (May 24, 2021)

All Cops Are Based said:


> another thread ruined because this r/femaledatingstrategy reject had to turn it into her cringey blog


Lol this entire subforum is just the backed up outhouse toilet of KF.

Or as I like to call it Rightwing Tumbler.


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## Android raptor (May 24, 2021)

CheezzyMach said:


> Lol this entire subforum is just the backed up outhouse toilet of KF.
> 
> Or as I like to call it Rightwing Tumbler.


Conservative men posting their Ls is a good description too


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## Maurice Caine (May 25, 2021)

All Cops Are Based said:


> another thread ruined because this r/femaledatingstrategy reject had to turn it into her cringey blog


What hypocrites, back in the day these 'women' wouldn't even consider venturing anything past MySpace or cringe Fotologs. Now they claim our stuff and take over. Many such cases!


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## Android raptor (May 25, 2021)

Maurice Caine said:


> What hypocrites, back in the day these 'women' wouldn't even consider venturing anything past MySpace or cringe Fotologs. Now they claim our stuff and take over. Many such cases!


Back in the day I thought I was cool and Not Like Other Girls because I was on the chans unlike those yucky sluts that used MySpace. 

The awkward nerdy tomboy--->self loathing NLOG--->ftm/genderspecial pipeline girls get sucked into in Current Year is sad and horrifying


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## Fek (May 25, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> In contrast, your argument is that there's no agreed upon definition of the term to the point that any conversation about tomboys is meaningless, between individual and cultural perspective differences.


Every single "deep thots" convo ever can be boiled down to this sort of crap at its terminus. Sooner or later, people wanna start splitting the already split hairs. It's why I've never been big on navel-gazing philosophical discussion. More just thinking out loud than accusing you of anything, you understand.

Is it more important to argue over the term, or gain the perspective of those who will read it and give you feedback in their own way? I'm sure you'll know when someone clearly didn't get it (as evident by the sheer number of replies to the attention whore feeding off your wasted efforts in this thread).


Spoiler: Re: A post from pages ago






Lemmingwise said:


> Though I've never personally had the problem of her wanting to invade my time in any way, because if it starts to bother me, I just don't let her. Maybe I protect my borders early and vigilantly enough?


In my previously referenced scenario, it was definitely a boundaries issue (and it was most certainly a matter of being young and stupid). A sort of "we share <x> and <y> interests holy shit I've never had this happen before this will be gr- wait, where did all my personal time go? fffFFFF-" situation. The folly of youth.


Lemmingwise said:


> The only issue is that it could get weirdly competitive from time to time.


I'm quite convinced that men and women are not supposed to compete directly with one another in general in any serious fashion.


Lemmingwise said:


> What you describe sounds almost like someone who regrets turning their hobby into a job.


Regret? No..all perspective gained is good perspective. That uh..that being said - I would not do it again, lmao.


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## Zero Day Defense (May 25, 2021)

Maurice Caine said:


> What hypocrites, back in the day these 'women' wouldn't even consider venturing anything past MySpace or cringe Fotologs. Now they claim our stuff and take over. Many such cases!


well it's not like we haven't been fighting back if 'ya know what i'm saying


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## Android raptor (May 25, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> well it's not like we haven't been fighting back if 'ya know what i'm saying


I've been on kf like 4+ years longer than either of you have lol


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## Solid Snek (May 25, 2021)

This is a very good thread, and I wish we had more Deep Thoughts like this.


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## Gaming Gamer (May 25, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> The concept has nothing to do with achievement.


This is not an underhanded dig at you. So for the record, this is the internet I don't get mad at shit over the internet. I believe I mentioned something about nuance in one of my previous posts. My statements tend to come fully loaded with nuance. This is one of those times. I'll explain what I meant in a different manner. Think of the whole Asian stereotype of being good at math. Lets say an Asian passes a math test then I say "of course he passed it he's Asian" as a joke that's whatever but as an unironic statement that devalues the accomplishment of passing said test. How that relates to Tomboys is it leaves the door open for such comments. "Oh she did that because she's a tomboy or oh she only won because she's a tomboy." With this recent infatuation with tomboys I see these being used as excuses.



Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't think anybody so far as labeled those things as common interests of the tomboy, though-- at least, not ones to be considered. I believe that idea was even repudiated as supposing that a tomboy is just a "female soyboy consoomer", an assessment I find convincing.
> 
> There are things that are male dominated because of some fluke, and things that are male dominated because they speak to masculinity. I'd consider something like Star Wars an example of the former, and mechanics and other hard labor activities that demand masculine physical advantages to be an example of the latter. What about Star Wars is specifically geared towards men? What masculine qualities does it seize upon?
> 
> ...


I don't know how familiar you are with Japanese culture but it is archaic as fuck. Activities in the west that are seen as normal for both genders to participate in. May still be male dominated in Japan and seen as (masculine) still. I literally had a friend show me a random 2D girl that had abs and had it in a "tomboy" folder. Fit women are not Tomboys. Just a general rule to follow and overall good to remember. "Just because you haven't heard it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist." 

The examples I used have all been examples I've heard previously. If we're talking anime its well understood that it will be about animation from Japan specifically. Going back to the music example if we're talking music its well understood what that entails cultural differences or not. If we're talking tomboys the conversation is up in the air. Unfortunately there is no council of internet users to come up with an agreed upon definition of "tomboys".



Zero Day Defense said:


> The one you cite still seems to assert that the concept of "tomboy" indeed has a definition, but what is presently considered "tomboy" is substantially influenced by Japanese pop culture/fetishism and accordingly deviates greatly from real life.
> 
> In contrast, your argument is that there's no agreed upon definition of the term to the point that any conversation about tomboys is meaningless, between individual and cultural perspective differences.


Since the definition of tomboys changes culturally. Yes, it needs to be established what cultural definition of tomboys we are discussing. Then once a working definition has been agreed upon from the perspective of "X" culture. Then yes a meaningful ironic discussion of "is it gay or not" can be had. Until then these discussions can reduced to a bunch of "no u" arguments. I don't call others gay lightly. Technically I do,  but only in the context of shitposting. So when I say "Tomboy lovers are closeted gays." There's a fuck ton of nuance in that statement. I'm not saying to simply "bait or shitpost." It is what it is.


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## Android raptor (May 25, 2021)

Anime, especially moe-blob shit, is also going to portray an idealized fantasy that appeals to horny nerds instead of be a realistic portrayal of even Japanese tomboys. See also yaoi characters vs. actual feminine gay men. I think a lot of the people ITT have made it clear they arent so much interested in real tomboys as they are idealized cartoon characters.


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## Lemmingwise (May 25, 2021)

Gaming Gamer said:


> Since the definition of tomboys changes culturally. Yes, it needs to be established what cultural definition of tomboys we are discussing. Then once a working definition has been agreed upon from the perspective of "X" culture.


I don't know why people think that definition rules lawyering is going to provide clarity, especially while not even discussing how they think it is defined.

It's an odd type of conversation criticism that doesn't move anything forward.

They are a kind of cultural concept that is never going to have a 100% accurate definition anyways. It's something that everyone brings some baggage to.

Honestly the dictionary definitions are accurate enough.







Gaming Gamer said:


> Think of the whole Asian stereotype of being good at math. Lets say an Asian passes a math test then I say "of course he passed it he's Asian" as a joke that's whatever but as an unironic statement that devalues the accomplishment of passing said test.


Why is this important? Anything and everyone can be devalued with a choice comment. You don't even need stereotypes for that.



Gaming Gamer said:


> My statements tend to come fully loaded with nuance


I think what you're describing is more like personal meaning. Nuance would mean it's contextually deducable (even if very subtle) what you mean. 

It's something I'm guilty of myself from time to time. But I don't think anyone could deduce that your statement of "Tomboy lovers are closeted gays" being some kind of meta criticism of not defining the terms beyond reproach.

That's not subtlety, that's headcanon.


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (May 26, 2021)

Gaming Gamer said:


> Unfortunately there is no council of internet users to come up with an agreed upon definition of "tomboys".


that's gay because all of us are western so even if there isn't a solid and generally accepted definition we still all have the collective consciousness of what a tomboy is, otherwise we literally couldn't talk to each other without getting confused immediately. I don't think any Japanese are in this thread, but if they were that'd be pretty cool


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## OrionBalls (Sep 9, 2021)

Long hair is hot and takes too long to maintain. Flannel is comfortable and takes to most weather. Boots are made for walking. Sports are a great social event that help keep your mond and body healthy. Why the fuck is "a woman being comfortable" a fetish?


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## Zero Day Defense (Sep 9, 2021)

OrionBalls said:


> Long hair is hot and takes too long to maintain. Flannel is comfortable and takes to most weather. Boots are made for walking. Sports are a great social event that help keep your mond and body healthy. Why the fuck is "a woman being comfortable" a fetish?


You forgot about the implied above-average aptitude in socializing with males. Perhaps the other part of the attraction is in the lack of pretentiousness underlying the the stuff you listed.


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## Bunny Tracks (Sep 9, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You forgot about the implied above-average aptitude in socializing with males. Perhaps the other part of the attraction is in the lack of pretentiousness underlying the the stuff you listed.


What's so pretentious about a woman liking girly things? You do know that not every woman who wears make-up is a stuck-up bitch, right?


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## Zero Day Defense (Sep 9, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> What's so pretentious about a woman liking girly things?


Neither of us mentioned "girly things" in the first place, and I was specifically addressing what was brought up. A focus on practicality, however (and I'm viewing the listed as _practical_ choices rather than those of comfort, as related as the ideas may be), is inherently non-pretentious. Ergo, those who are more concerned with practicality (e.g. short hair _because long hair is hard to maintain, _sports _to keep the mind and body healthy_) would be likely to be non-pretentious as a whole. 



Bunny Tracks said:


> You do know that not every woman who wears make-up is a stuck-up bitch, right?


Nobody brought up make-up, not even by negation. 

That said, you should know that I'm using the term "pretentious" in its most literal sense, not as a euphemism for "bitchy".


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## Bunny Tracks (Sep 9, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Neither of us mentioned "girly things" in the first place, and I was specifically addressing what was brought up. A focus on practicality, however, is inherently non-pretentious. Ergo, those who are more concerned with practicality (e.g. short hair _because long hair is hard to maintain, _sports _to keep the mind and body healthy_) would be likely to be non-pretentious as a whole.
> 
> Nobody brought up make-up, not even by negation.


Sorry, but the fact that you brought up pretentiousness out of nowhere in response to what the other person was saying led me to think that was what you were implying. No need to get so defensive about it.


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## Zero Day Defense (Sep 9, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Sorry, but the fact that you brought up pretentiousness out of nowhere in response to what the other person was saying led me to think that was what you were implying. *No need to get so defensive about it.*


You constructed an uncharitable argument to respond to based off of things that weren't ever said despite what _was _specified. Dryly pointing that out, and then elaborating on what I previously said for clarity, is in no way "defensive".


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## Syaoran Li (Sep 9, 2021)

OP is a faggot


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## OrionBalls (Sep 9, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You forgot about the implied above-average aptitude in socializing with males. Perhaps the other part of the attraction is in the lack of pretentiousness underlying the the stuff you listed.


Males make up about 50% of the population, give or take. Why shouldn't we learn how to socialize with each other? Besides, from what I remember of Elementary School, when these sorts of stereotypes become ingrained, playing kickball is way more fun than doing hair and talking about NKOTB on the swings. Sorry, I'm MOTI. Got called Leslie for years. So much so, that when I took the summer off (from a school year job) to get married because I wanted no burn scars on my arms, and an actual nail length to paint, I got called out for it. "Oh, I thought that was an excuse. Aren't you into chicks? You actually got married to a guy?" Fuck that shit. And fuck the fetish that goes with it.


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## Rich Evans Ayypologist (Sep 9, 2021)

women? tomboys? what?
I much prefer the company of upvotes and video essays made by unemployed people, and I recommend all men of sound mind to seek the same


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## Cow Poly (Sep 9, 2021)

So I had this GF in my late 20s. Hot white mommy GF, great curves, fake boobs, tight waist. We were friends for a year before we hooked up. She wore boys clothes (Dickies Shorts/Pants, Doc Martens, wife-beaters and/or white T-shirts) and kept her hair pretty short. Common interests etc… when we finally hooked up it was super hot. We even separated on good terms. If I saw her again we’d hang out as friends and (hopefully) smash too for old times sake. 
She actually dressed down “like a boy” as she used to say, to avoid unwanted attention on the street.
So yes, for me? This is a fetish now. Goood shit!


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## Don't Tread on Me (Sep 9, 2021)

I am guessing this has a lot to do with anime and it's probably just because most Asian women have pretty flat chests so the tomboy "look" is probably more prevalent over there, since it's just women with short hair.

Tomboys in the US do not look like the anime depictions of them. For one thing, they are usually pretty tall, and since women in the US play basketball or soccer instead of softball like they do in Japan, tomboys in the US can get pretty muscular. 

Muscular women is a whole other fetish. Like the guy on page one said, tomboys are exclusively children and the people attracted to them are exclusively pedophiles. Being a tomboy is something you are expected to grow out of.


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## Zero Day Defense (Sep 10, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Tomboys in the US do not look like the anime depictions of them. For one thing, they are usually pretty tall, and since women in the US play basketball or soccer instead of softball like they do in Japan, tomboys in the US can get pretty muscular.


Eh? I recall the girls who played basketball or soccer in high school, and none were particularly muscular. Definitely fit, but not "pretty muscular".



Don't Tread on Me said:


> Muscular women is a whole other fetish.


I don't think so. Muscularity is a masculine feature, so I reckon those who are into that also expect at least tints of masculinity from said women-- meaning, I expect some overlap given my understanding (see below) of how said fetishists/"appreciators" define the term.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> Like the guy on page one said, tomboys are exclusively children and the people attracted to them are exclusively pedophiles.


I don't think most (if any) of these fetishists/"appreciators" are pedophiles, but they have a modified understanding of what constitutes a "tomboy" that allows them to recognize sexually mature women as such, as well. You watch them, and they aren't expecting their tomboy waifu or whatever to be muscular, but rather just to be kind of androgynous, rough-spoken, into boy stuff, et cetera-- muscularity is another archetypal feature, but it isn't required.



Don't Tread on Me said:


> Being a tomboy is something you are expected to grow out of.


I'm starting to get that vibe, yes. Even in fiction, it seems the archetype is often the point A of a "I'm glad I was born a woman" character arc, and is itself framed as an ignorance or explicit rejection of femininity.


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## ReturnedHermit (Sep 10, 2021)

Tomboys are pretty well understood at this point. The primary source of attraction is always the lack of pageantry and social grace. All other features, from fitness to hair length to entertainment preferences are secondary. 
The tomboy is the female equivalent of the manchild. Whether or not you can push further and claim they are predominantly cases of masking autistism (or the disorder formerly known as Asperger's) is not entirely clear. 
Men read into the tomboy too much. You may see a woman without makeup, without a "fake" personality or flock of female friends and think "Wow, she's attainable and authentic." This observation is not to be trusted for a number of reasons. The 'Women are Wonderful' effect can do a number on your brain, leading you to believe that the reason for a tomboy to act the way she does is out of some rebellion against the norm. You may believe in some way that your scouter is picking up a powerlevel due to her occasional criticism of modern women. What you are really picking up on is the shift that occurs in between childhood and adulthood where most men become losers or merely invisible drones, while most women are thriving. There are many reasons for this across many disciplines, but the end result is a great filtering process. This explains the relative scarcity of tomboys as well. They are simply part of the relatively small group of women who did not rise to the expected level of maturity and conformity at the prescribed time. Putting any hopes or dreams on the tomboy is courting disaster. Expecting some sophisticated, rebellious spirit is equally wrong. Instead, what you get is a stunted person with little to be passionate about other than the past. 

Trust me.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Sep 10, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:
			
		

> they have a modified understanding of what constitutes a "tomboy" that allows them to recognize sexually mature women as such....expecting their tomboy waifu to be kind of androgynous


Sexually mature women are not androgynous. They have tits. Even B cups mark you as very clearly not male, and lots of American women have C-cups or larger.


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## emptyblu (Sep 14, 2021)

I like girls with short hair. That’s it, that’s all I have to say.


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## Demislob (Sep 14, 2021)

emptyblu said:


> I like girls with short hair. That’s it, that’s all I have to say.


Dude. Nice.


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## Soulless4510 (Sep 15, 2021)

Well according to Youtuber Tradlarper Academic Agent tomboys and muscular women, in general, are part of the downfall of western civilization


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## Zero Day Defense (Sep 15, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Sexually mature women are not androgynous. They have tits. Even B cups mark you as very clearly not male, and lots of American women have C-cups or larger.


I said _"kind of_ androgynous", and I meant as a matter of style rather than natural body type.



ReturnedHermit said:


> Trust me.


Sounds like there's a story behind the genesis of this observation.


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Sep 15, 2021)

From what I've seen, most guys that genuinely want a tomboy gf fall into one of two catagories. They're either guys that are extremely athletic and want a woman with the same passion, or weaker men who want a dominant female partner and see tomboys as a way to achieve that.

Well, either that or they're coomers that just have a thing for women with short hair or big muscles (and usually dark skin for some reason), presumably because their mother either didn't love them or loved them too much.


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## greenvector36 (Sep 16, 2021)

emptyblu said:


> I like girls with short hair. That’s it, that’s all I have to say.





CERTIFIEDGHOUL said:


> Dude. Nice.


*


*


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## FoolhardStar (Sep 17, 2021)

My two quid:
Tomboys are going through a similar thing that goth and other niche subcultures have gone through. People that fall in line with it but don't center their entire existence around it tend to be perfectly fine, even great people. I've known and met people that fall into goth archetypes, but it's just an aspect of themselves and not their entire _being_ or a fetish, if that makes sense. Every single obnoxiously vocal goth, or punk, or just any alternative person I've met that acts like that part of themselves makes them superior has been a powder keg waiting to explode, or just a complete passive aggressive cunt.  Most people I know that used to have a "big titty goth gf" fetish shut the fuck up instantly when they actually found out what goths that won't shut up about being goth are like. People that're into tomboys range from just liking short hair and more toned and fit women, to men that practically worship the concept as a religion and want a tomboy equivalent to Ramona Flowers.

Here's an easy way to figure out whether or not you should run the fuck away: If she's just a more masculine chick and feels no need to call it out or talk about just how awesome it makes her compared to everyone else, you're likely gold. If she won't shut up about "I'm not like other girls" and prides herself on not being very girly *constantly*, you might need to have a talk. It's by no means exclusive to women, it's just that "I'm not like other guys, I'm special" and the types of men that usually say that get shamed enough.


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## not william stenchever (Sep 17, 2021)

I know a lady who would be peak tomboy waifu but she has a surprisingly wholesome thing going with another woman and together they are raising the latter's autistic son. Their chickens are pretty cool.


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## Merried Senior Comic (Sep 17, 2021)

Anything men like = bad.


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## Niggerman (Sep 17, 2021)

Tomboys are cancer. They talk big until shit hits fan(or a man in a dress joins their sports league) then they run ,hide and cry like all other women. At least feminine women are more honest about themselves


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## Fougaro (Sep 17, 2021)

Soulless4510 said:


> Well according to Youtuber Tradlarper Academic Agent tomboys and muscular women, in general, are part of the downfall of western civilization


He hates women that try to get themselves in shape and unironically believes in the anime-tranny pipeline meme. Maybe some of Null's recent bizarre takes come from him watching tarditional conspergative schizoposters a bit too much.

One of the comments on this video did in my opinion a decent job explaining the tomboy phenomenon.


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## SneedEyeMitch (Sep 17, 2021)

Unyielding Stupidity said:


> From what I've seen, most guys that genuinely want a tomboy gf fall into one of two catagories. They're either guys that are extremely athletic and want a woman with the same passion, or weaker men who want a dominant female partner and see tomboys as a way to achieve that.
> 
> Well, either that or they're coomers that just have a thing for women with short hair or big muscles (and usually dark skin for some reason), presumably because their mother either didn't love them or loved them too much.


Third option I see their wanting to be dominat as a challenge and being hard to get, and it's a really fun challenge.


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## biozeminadae1 (Oct 2, 2021)

Android raptor said:


> Doubt it, girls generally like sticking to people who agree with them having basic human rights. I've seen his posts in abortion sperging.
> 
> That's another thing, you really don't respect tomboys if you ultimately just see them as something you want to stick your dick in and pop out babies for you. Sure some women, even masculine women, do want to have kids, but lots of us don't. Lots of us also aren't attracted to men. Do you still respect those tomboys? Us lesbian, childfree tomboys that will never see you as anything more than a friend if you're a dude?


No.


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## biozeminadae1 (Oct 2, 2021)

Double post, but this is how a real tomboy, Jarmila Kratochvilova, looks like:





Hair from the chest all the way to the balls.


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## mr.moon1488 (Oct 2, 2021)

Soulless4510 said:


> Well according to Youtuber Tradlarper Academic Agent tomboys and muscular women, in general, are part of the downfall of western civilization


This nigger is retarded.  He's assuming that the reason why twatter fags like tomboys is the same reason why dudes on the internet in general like tomboys.  It would be akin to assuming that the reason I hate Israel is the same reason AOC hates Israel.  He's also, ironically, fallen for the same shit the twatter fags have which is that tomboys = bull dikes, and troons.  

Side note:
Looked at some of his other shit, and he doesn't seem all that bad, but this was a pretty retarded take.


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## biozeminadae1 (Oct 3, 2021)

This surge in popularity for tomboys is an Internet fad, and just like the Big Titty Goth gf before (actual goths are just fat), and the Mommy Milkers shit, it will go away. Tomboys are not what's depicted in anime and manga.


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## Grand Wizard Wakka (Oct 3, 2021)

Fougaro said:


> One of the comments on this video did in my opinion a decent job explaining the tomboy phenomenon.
> View attachment 2546596


"superifically strong"

I just wanna agree and expand on that, cause I think its important. Modern feminism has a twisted idea of "strong". They think strength is winning, even if its winning easily or with advantage. The reality is admirable strength is the strength to try even if you'll likely lose, or to keep getting up and trying even when you lose.

Thats why modern feminism's attempts at pushing heroes dont resonate, like Captain Marvel who's just invincible and perfect, but there have been actual female heroes in the past admired by people who are now called misogynists. Ripley wasn't effortlessly owning Aliens left and right with her bare hands (until Ressurection which everyone thinks is bad). She was vulnerable, but brave and competent in the face of situations most would break under.

Modern feminism doesn't teach or raise girls to endure, but to step on ants when they have advantage and run and cry sexism when they have disadvantage.

Women of the past in "meek" roles had a lot more endurance, worked harder, and had more inner strength. Imagine doing laundry by hand without a washing machine, and all sorts of other chores that were so much more demanding physically and with time commitment than anyone today can imagine, and it being 100% OK for the shit to be beaten out of you if you tried saying "NO BUT I CANT ADULT TODAY". Imagine not having birth control and modern health, and needing to actually be cautious and make good choices. Women of the past couldn't sidestep responsibilities, and they had to endure. A lot of women now break down from "harassment" if someone dares to criticize them or doesn't help them enough.

Men are weaker too. I think thats why so many troon out, because they think they can finally be a stereotypical female role and just cry and be weak and not be expected to "man up" when someone is mean to them or they have to endure through hardship.

---

As far as the actual topic of tomboys, I think people overthink it, like they're some sort of mutation or another species entirely. Some girls have long hair, some girls have short hair. Some girls can appreciate cool shit, and some girls are boring basic bitches who's only interest is watching The Kardashians. Liking tomboys is just a taste like butts vs boobs or longhair vs shorthair, etc. And tomboys aren't a monolith. It umbrellas everything from some pixie girl who just likes "nerdy boy stuff" like Skyrim to ripped athlete fem-jocks, which are very different and someone who's into one likely isn't into the other.

Also, people need to stop bullying tomboys into trooning just because a girl isn't some stereotypical Barbie doll.


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## Equivocal_Iki (Oct 3, 2021)

Tomboy is such a diluted term it might as well just mean "girl I like". It seems more like someone will use any excuse to call a girl they like a tomboy. I remember using a wordfilter to filter "tomboy" to "girl" just to see how it would go and the 4chan thread read exactly the same.


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## Zero Day Defense (Oct 3, 2021)

biozeminadae1 said:


> Double post, but this is how a real tomboy, Jarmila Kratochvilova, looks like:
> 
> View attachment 2590931
> 
> Hair from the chest all the way to the balls.


The first words that came out of my mouth were "that is a nigga".

By the way, that is a nigga.



Equivocal_Iki said:


> Tomboy is such a diluted term it might as well just mean "girl I like". It seems more like someone will use any excuse to call a girl they like a tomboy.


Granted, I don't circle around 4chan, but I've never seen this in action. I've found it more likely that the concept ends up boiled down to some vague sense or a couple of attributes, but never that it's watered down to literal nothing on par with "semen demon".


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## Equivocal_Iki (Oct 3, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Granted, I don't circle around 4chan, but I've never seen this in action. I've found it more likely that the concept ends up boiled down to some vague sense or a couple of attributes, but never that it's watered down to literal nothing on par with "semen demon".


4chan's video game board probably shouldn't be my only view on culture. Though for fun, this image from there sums up how broad the discussion has gotten.






Though after thinking about it, if you're a female character in a video game you're likely going to end up doing something tomboyish just to be useful. So the term is going to feel diluted on a video game board.


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## BLTAnnihilator (Oct 30, 2021)

I dunno about why others like Tomboys, so I'll just share my own thoughts of why I like 'em.

I always thought tomboy was more Lara Croft from Tomb Raider, Riza Hawkeye from FMA: Brotherhood or Claire Redfield from RE: Code Veronica than whatever people say it is nowadays. It's not "Girl is being a guy" or the inverse of Trap, it's basically just a girl who recognizes that male clothes are pretty much objectively better across the whole damn board in just about every conceivable way compared to female equivalents.

I like tomboys mainly because if you take any typically-male outfit and put it on a chick, she's gonna get instantly cuter, maybe it's because of the whole trope of "girl you just slept with accidentally went home more or less just wearing your clothes" is something I vibe with, but it's also just plain adorable.

Imo Tomboys also tend to not so much be dominant, they just have a more can-do attitude, for lack of a better term. I just like gals with some fire in their heart, they typically have that in some form or another.
I'm unsure how I'd actually define my reasons for it to make a concise definition. It's not so much a fetish like it is for others, the attitude part itself is just part of what I look for in a woman, the rest is just an aesthetic bonus.


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## Smolrolls (Oct 30, 2021)

I've heard, rather read & seen, you get attracted to your girlfriend more if you see them wear your clothes.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Nov 1, 2021)

Dear Leader has weighed in on the tomboy question in the past. It starts around 17:00 and continues for like ten minutes.


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## Glowie Hunter Art Bell (Nov 1, 2021)

themasterlurker said:


> Another fantasization of a type of woman that hardly exists


The tomboys in the memes are always big tiddy, fat ass, flat stomached short haired babes. Tom girls IRL are usually mildly overweight girls with mental issues that haven't admitted they're fuckin dykes yet. 

Its an internet thing


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## DerKryptid (Nov 1, 2021)

There is no solution to the tomboy question


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## Ingmar Aspergman (Nov 1, 2021)

Women keep emulating dumb shit online but not this fml


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 1, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> Dear Leader has weighed in on the tomboy question in the past. It starts around 17:00 and continues for like ten minutes.


>if you wanna have sex with a girl that acts like a guy and you're a guy then you're gay
>if you wanna have sex with a girl that acts like a guy and you're a girl then you're still gay

So there's no escape from being gay, here?

That aside, though (I did find that logic funny, and I won't begrudge it), I find both his description of tomboy and especially his explanation for why a man would be attracted to that lacking in rationale. A man attracted to a woman he finds "tomboyish" most likely wouldn't be gay because he's more than likely attracted to the personality traits and interests _as manifest in a woman_, who they're sexually interested in-- there's not much in function to suggest that such a man is latently homosexual in this.

I also don't get why he alternatively thinks that such a man would have social issues re: women, because he doesn't describe anything inherent to a non-tomboyish woman that a theoretical tomboyish woman (I assume he's has "woman with mannish mannerisms and interests" in mind) doesn't have that a man should be attracted to or otherwise be able to bear. I can see it if-- as he pointed out-- someone attracted to the tomboy archetype denigrated all non-tomboyish women, or was generally misogynistic, but I can't get behind that idea otherwise.

It _is_ in the context of a playthrough stream, so I think some of it was taking the piss as the chat became more agitated about him not being down with boyish girls.



DerShqiptid said:


> There is no solution to the tomboy question


The "solution" is globohomo.



Ford4.7 said:


> Tom girls IRL are usually mildly overweight girls with mental issues that haven't admitted they're fuckin dykes yet.


Tom_girls _IRL are fat boys.


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## Black Light Red Panic (Nov 1, 2021)

I only respect Strength and I only love Submission so a Tomboy who I will dominate and force her to wear a dress ( she keeps short hair, abs but I force her to be comfortable with her feminine nature and this a whole person reunification of anime and Animus )  I will only love and respect.

She will also casually were my clothes like relaxing the flags and banners on. Conquered fortress. Tomboy is the hardest fortress with the best defense.

What is best in life ?


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## Serbian Peacekeepers (Nov 3, 2021)

My 2 cents are that in current year +8 , most men online feel like outcasts and like they aren't normal , and so latch on to things that make them feel comfortable in being different from the perceived norm , a tomboy , by definition , is going against the norm  (a female having traits and hobbies traditionally male) and latch on to it , of course this also intersects with the popularity of anime and hentai online , forming into the current idea of a tomboy and the modern fetish for them. Some also project their own interests onto this ideal partner , and pretty much make a female version of their ideal self which is another reason why i think they are so popular.


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## Idiotron (Nov 3, 2021)

A lot of guys like athletic women who don't wear dresses, heels, jewelry or make up.
Who knew?


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## Ser Prize (Nov 3, 2021)

The dream is a woman whose too much of a bro to put you through gay woman shit like shit testing.


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## Kamikirimushi (Nov 30, 2021)

Here's my two cents: Tomboys make the ultimate female friends and at the end of the day, that's a great trait to have in a wife/girlfriend. Men typically put a lot of emotion into the shit they do. Just look at any war flick or any classic EVO match and you can see that on display. It creates bonds that last for a man's life and tell you a lot about him. It also let's you know who a man's closest friends are, which are his brothers in arms. Women typically don't think that way (not throwing shade but that's true), but why I value girls that are tomboys (girls with some interests considered masculine and not the anime type of tomboy (who are cute but that's another story) or the type of tomboy that is purely fashion based) is that they are women that can understand the hearts of the men in that community and even if they don't associate emotion in the same way, they have a level of understanding of this community most people just don't in the case of something like a nerdy hobby or something like that. It makes them unique among women in my eyes and like a diamond in the rough, even if they aren't all that rare. Being a bit of a weeb and fighting game/computer nerd for most of my life, it really explains why the only women I tend to talk to about personal shit outside of my mother and sisters are girls like that: even if they don't get you 100%, they still understand you. And ultimately that's what every person wants in a friend. For the fetish, anime and video games, specifically Street Fighter with Makoto and Sakura, RE with Rebecca Chambers and Jill Valentine and Persona 4 with Chie. As  for me, I always liked the musical types like Edie Brickell and Kaori Kawamura. They seem like they're pretty chill and have great personalities, they're cute and they make great music.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Aug 18, 2022)

Is there a subculture of women that have tomboy personalities but wear feminine dresses and keep feminine hairstyles?


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## Terrorist (Aug 18, 2022)

In real life, a tomboy is a young girl who likes young boy things. That’s all there is to it. The label is really quite shallow and has no philosophical implications. A woman identifying as a “tomboy” past high school age is kind of ridiculous, like a grown man identifying as class clown or spelling bee champ.

The “tomboy” discussed on the internet is just some meme fetish archetype with little relation to reality. Your femboy tomboy moth girl dommy mommy gf will never exist, so quit dwelling on it.


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## Zero Day Defense (Sep 2, 2022)

Terrorist said:


> In real life, a tomboy is a young girl who likes young boy things. That’s all there is to it. The label is really quite shallow and has no philosophical implications. A woman identifying as a “tomboy” past high school age is kind of ridiculous, like a grown man identifying as class clown or spelling bee champ.
> 
> The “tomboy” discussed on the internet is just some meme fetish archetype with little relation to reality. Your femboy tomboy moth girl dommy mommy gf will never exist, so quit dwelling on it.


I tend to be slightly put off by non-past self-identification as a tomboy, mainly because I'm not used to it employed that way. Even more, even if the tendency associated with the term is pointed out, I still hardly hear the term-- much less as self-identification.

However, I was (and still am) all but convinced that it would be helpful to deduce a definition of a tomboy that was as modular as possible, in part because-- as it came up in this thread-- "what young boys like" has layers of variance depending on culture, and having some interests that may be seen as principally in a boy's domain (e.g. sports) wouldn't readily lead to one thinking of someone else, "what a boy-girl". There's certainly a "spirit" associated with the archetype that transcends the interests themselves; even if you wanted to say it was a mere matter of interests, what one takes to isn't something that occurs in a vacuum.

In fact, because of this thread and some related conversations, I currently figure that what people recognize as "tomboyish" is the quasi-masculine spirit resultant from a girl willingly pursuing interests with no regard to-- and sometimes in opposition-- to their naturally associated sex-based norms and obligations (whereas women *tend *to conform to such things), and the reality of there only being two sexes means that these interests are almost certainly male.

Speaking of spirit, I mostly agree with the spirit of your latter statement. Rather than an appreciation for a certain kind of woman, what ends up (often) discussed on the internet is a collection of symbols and patterns to which many of these people have conditioned themselves to be aroused upon their identification. There's also an element of escapism: they consider tomboys much more relatable than other kinds of women because they figure their boyish airs mean that they're bound to be much more relatable. And there's some truth to it, but outside of the occasionally associated fantasy of making them glad to have been born a woman, they neglect the reality that-- in the ideal case-- they can only expect _less _of what they fear/resent in a typical woman because tomboys are still fundamentally women.


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