# Who was the worst US President?



## Rand /pol/ (Aug 19, 2018)

P̶e̶r̶s̶o̶n̶a̶l̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶F̶D̶R̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶N̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ ̶F̶i̶r̶e̶a̶r̶m̶s̶ ̶A̶c̶t̶.̶
It's obviously Drumpf.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Aug 19, 2018)

James Buchanan. He took us speeding straight into the Civil War. Possibly a fag as well.


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## Bass (Aug 19, 2018)

I think its hard to top Buchanan, Harding or any of the ones between Taylor and Mckinley in the 19th century.   

Now that I think about it most presidents sucked balls.   Maybe its part of the design.


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## MemeGray (Aug 19, 2018)

John Quincy Adams, literally followed the era of good feelings with the first case of nepotism in the presidency.


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## OhGoy (Aug 19, 2018)

william howard taft

because he's fat


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## Woke Blue Muttlema (Aug 19, 2018)

REGENDarySumanai said:


> James Buchanan. He took us speeding straight into the Civil War. Possibly a fag as well.


You won me that one. A pain in the ass he is the only Penn citizen to enter the house.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Aug 19, 2018)

Bass said:


> I think its hard to top Buchanan, Harding or any of the ones between Taylor and Mckinley in the 19th century.
> 
> Now that I think about it most presidents sucked balls.   Maybe its part of the design.


John Taylor was supposed to be sworn into the Confederate Senate, but he died before that happened. His grandchildren are still alive though.


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## Woke Blue Muttlema (Aug 19, 2018)

OhGoy said:


> william howard taft
> 
> because he's fat






How dare you speak shit about him?! You are the worst kiwi evar!1!!1


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## skiddlez (Aug 19, 2018)

DRUMPFTDT WORDST PREZ-O-DANT

RACISS



Spoiler



Buchanan.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Aug 19, 2018)

OhGoy said:


> william howard taft
> 
> because he's fat





ωσкє вℓυє мυѕℓιм qυєєη said:


> How dare you speak shit about him?!


A man so goddamn fat that he got stuck in the bath tub. He's also the only President to become a Supreme Court justice.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

Andrew Johnson was just a drunkard, lol.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Aug 19, 2018)

MemeGray said:


> John Quincy Adams, literally followed the era of good feelings with the first case of nepotism in the presidency.


He did become a representative, and then died while working in 1848.


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## Elwood P. Dowd (Aug 19, 2018)

All the presidents leading up to the US Civil War were pretty bad, but I think *Franklin Pierce* should be singled out for special mention.  As the country was tearing itself apart over slavery he damn near caused a war against Britain, France and Spain simultaneously over a half baked scheme to grab Cuba and incorporate it into the US as a slave state. He was also an alcoholic who died of cirrhosis of the liver, if Wikipedia can be believed. For whatever reason the Wikipedia article downplays the Cuban business, but a couple things I read lead me to believe it was a VERY close run thing.

The one proud alumnus of the college that bears his name I know refers to it as either Fuckin' Party U or Fischer Price U. Probably fitting. 

Depending upon how liberal or conservative I'm feeling on any particular day of the week, I oscillate between thinking *Calvin Coolidge* is either the worst president of the twentieth century,  or the best. A lot of liberal scholars now think if any one person is to be blamed for the Great Depression, Coolidge is the guy, and that Herbert Hoover was just somebody in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact a lot of what the New Deal did began under Hoover, it just didn't cool acronyms, seems to be commonly accepted scholarship these days. For better or worse.

Coolidge does have a term in biology named after him, the Coolidge Effect, concerning the re-arousal of male mammals for sex when provided with access to multiple partners.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Coolidge does have a term in biology named after him, the Coolidge Effect, concerning the re-arousal of male mammals for sex when provided with access to multiple partners.


That's pretty hot.


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## RG 448 (Aug 19, 2018)

Washington’s treachery to the crown has not been forgotten.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> Washington’s treachery to the crown has not been forgotten.


He literally soggied my tea without a loiscence.


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## BeanBidan (Aug 19, 2018)

Honest Abe cucked to slaves.


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## eldri (Aug 19, 2018)

Slightly fftopic:, but any US history books to recommend?
I am interested in this thread but forgot most of US history before 20th century


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## Dirt McGirt (Aug 19, 2018)

Andrew Jackson didn't kill enough Indians


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## Flying_with_the_Penguins (Aug 19, 2018)

Woodrow Wilson was easily the most authoritarian president in U.S history, so I'd have to go with him.


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## jebsurge (Aug 19, 2018)

Dubya


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## Rand /pol/ (Aug 19, 2018)

jebsurge said:


> Dubya


Which one


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## d12 (Aug 19, 2018)

I don't know what ya'll are going on about, Rutherfraud Hayes was clearly the worst. /sneed


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

d12 said:


> /sneed


Typo here.


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## AnOminous (Aug 19, 2018)

REGENDarySumanai said:


> James Buchanan. He took us speeding straight into the Civil War. Possibly a fag as well.



This.  Franklin Pierce would be in the same club.  

Ulysses S. Grant was also pretty terrible as a President, and so was Warren G. Harding.

It's dumb to say any President from the last 20 years or so is the best or worst because nobody knows that yet.


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## A Useless Fish (Aug 19, 2018)

James Buchanan, hands down. That fucker did literally nothing as the whole country ripped itself apart. Fuck that guy.


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## d12 (Aug 19, 2018)

Y2K Baby said:


> Typo here.



Nah, Hayes was a decent pres from what I read, I just didn't want to pass up the pun.


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## CWCissey (Aug 19, 2018)

Horace Greeley.

Nigger died before the Electoral College even met!

In all seriousness, anyone who doesn't say Buchanan is a fucking idiot.

Jackson was first Kiwi btw. Motherfucker had to be restrained from beating his would-be assassin to death.


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## Toucan (Aug 19, 2018)

Nixon was a treasonous snake who shitted up everything he touched.


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## Rand /pol/ (Aug 19, 2018)

Toucan said:


> Nixon was a treasonous snake who shitted up everything he touched.


I always kinda liked Nixon.


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## CatParty (Aug 19, 2018)

Jokes on you, they’re all just figuresheads for the real shadow government


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## Red Hood (Aug 19, 2018)

Buchanan for the win. Or loss.

Whichever is funnier.


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## Russian Civil War (Aug 19, 2018)

Flying_with_the_Penguins said:


> Woodrow Wilson was easily the most authoritarian president in U.S history, so I'd have to go with him.


Is this supposed to make us dislike him?


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## Kyria the Great (Aug 19, 2018)

James Buchanan is easily the worst president as his fuckups lead to one of the most horrible wars in American history which in today's context would lead to the deaths of 10s of millions of Americans.


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## Save the Loli (Aug 19, 2018)

Donald Drumpf of course, that one recent poll said he was the worst!

But really, probably Andrew Johnson. All sorts of corruption, helping to fuck up Reconstruction, and betray Lincoln's legacy. He was so fucking shit the only reason he wasn't impeached was because he had bribed a few senators. Buchanan was just a mediocre president who happened to be president at the absolute worst time, and had a lot less control over the outcome. Andrew Johnson was president at one of the most important times in American history, and utterly and monumentally fucked up despite having ample opportunity not to.

At the rate things are going in this country, in 50 years I wouldn't be surprised if we'll be able to argue that George W. Bush was the worst president in US history.



Elwood P. Dowd said:


> Depending upon how liberal or conservative I'm feeling on any particular day of the week, I oscillate between thinking *Calvin Coolidge* is either the worst president of the twentieth century,  or the best. A lot of liberal scholars now think if any one person is to be blamed for the Great Depression, Coolidge is the guy, and that Herbert Hoover was just somebody in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact a lot of what the New Deal did began under Hoover, it just didn't cool acronyms, seems to be commonly accepted scholarship these days. For better or worse.
> 
> Coolidge does have a term in biology named after him, the Coolidge Effect, concerning the re-arousal of male mammals for sex when provided with access to multiple partners.



Hoover was probably autistic. If he were alive today, he'd probably be posting on some engineering/science related forum. The guy's beliefs and policies were extremely rigid in their thinking.

And also for Hoover, go check out what he did during the 1927 Mississippi flood and the aftermath. He made a bunch of promises to the black community, who were a bit concerned by Southern plantation owners bringing back slavery to fix the damage from the flood, and then proceeded to break them. So in part, Hoover helped begin the destruction of a solidly Republican voting bloc and helped lead to blacks mostly voting Democrat.



Flying_with_the_Penguins said:


> Woodrow Wilson was easily the most authoritarian president in U.S history, so I'd have to go with him.



He was also a hardcore racist even by the standards of his day and segregated the federal government. He also sent over 100,000 men to die in Europe for almost no reason (Zimmerman Telegram was a false flag), in a war that gained Americans nothing, all the while throwing his political opponents in jail or censoring them. Also, Wilsonianism as foreign policy helped lead to a bunch of wars after WWI was over, and was made even worse since the US never even bothered to enforce it. In many ways, he was the prototype of George W. Bush.

The only reason Wilson wasn't actually that bad is because he actually did a lot of good during his term.


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## Flying_with_the_Penguins (Aug 19, 2018)

Russian Civil War said:


> Is this supposed to make us dislike him?



If you hate the constitution and would prefer to live in a country where you're jailed for speaking out against a pointless war, then feel free to love him as much as you want I guess.


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## Trasha Pay That A$$ (Aug 19, 2018)

Good Ol' Tippecanoe who couldn't even hack it a month in office. Pussy.


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## andr0id psycho sho(ker (Aug 19, 2018)

Trasha Pay That A$$ said:


> Good Ol' Tippecanoe who couldn't even hack it a month in office. Pussy.



Well, his incredibly long and boring speech in heavy rain was a good way to torture people so there's that.


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## Lysol (Aug 19, 2018)

Lyndon B. "I'll have those niggers voting Democrat for 100 years" Johnson, way to strangle black america in the crib you fat disgusting fuck.


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## Dragon Face (Aug 19, 2018)

Probably Nixon. I mean, Deaf community have sign for his name and it's basically in letter "N" handshape with the motion for "Lie" 

I don't think there any other president with an offensive sign name other than Trump.


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## CWCissey (Aug 19, 2018)

Dragon Face said:


> Probably Nixon. I mean, Deaf community have sign for his name and it's basically in letter "N" handshape with the motion for "Lie"
> 
> I don't think there any other president with an offensive sign name other than Trump.



The Trump one's kind of cute! (It's a swoosh over your forehead like the signature Trump barnet)


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## Florence (Aug 19, 2018)

George Sears.


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## CWCissey (Aug 19, 2018)

NotAKitty said:


> George Sears.



Eh, Philip Mead was worse.


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## AF 802 (Aug 19, 2018)

NotAKitty said:


> George Soros.



FTFY. (since he secretly runs the US, or was)


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## Hellbound Hellhound (Aug 19, 2018)

I think one of the difficulties of assessing the quality of a president's performance is the fact that you really have to consider the hand that they were dealt. A president who assumes office when times are good is going to have a much easier job than a president who assumes office in a time of crisis, and whatever confluence of factors is to blame for a crisis, people tend to blame the president for it regardless, which leads to an unfavorably skewed perception of their competency.

With all that said, I'm going to go with James Buchanan.


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## Lez (Aug 19, 2018)

Really didn't care for Abe by the last episode. More of a JFK kind of person.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

Lez said:


> Really didn't care for Abe by the last episode. More of a JFK kind of person.


I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A REFERENCE.


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## Slap47 (Aug 19, 2018)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> I think one of the difficulties of assessing the quality of a president's performance is the fact that you really have to consider the hand that they were dealt. A president who assumes office when times are good is going to have a much easier job than a president who assumes office in a time of crisis, and whatever confluence of factors is to blame for a crisis, people tend to blame the president for it regardless, which leads to an unfavorably skewed perception of their competency.
> 
> With all that said, I'm going to go with James Buchanan.



Another issue is that what is socially acceptable has changed. Do you judge a president on doing what is best for the country or doing what is right? Do you factor in hindsight or give them points for their efforts?

17th century has to be Adams but he was a damn great. His competition is Washington himself so it doesn't mean much. 

Early 19th century would have to be Madison. The war of 1812 was chaotic and ended with no gains. Jackson killed Indians but literally all presidents did that so its odd how he gets singled out for it. He had a native as one of his sons and he tried to get that son into the military. He was arguably the least racist of the bunch and the first non-aristocratic president. His "trail of tears" wasn't even his legislation, it was VanBurens.

Later 19th century is either Buchanan or Andrew Johnson. I don't think anything could have been done to prevent southern secession so I'll go with Johnson. He crippled efforts to reform the south into something non-shit but also pushed for punitive actions against the south for a good laugh or something.

The Harding administration was famously corrupt (and passed those famous depression-causing tariffs) but Wilson and Taft are probably some of the worst of the early 20th century. Taft toppled the first ever democratically elected government in Mexico and Wilson refused to acknowledge the dictator the USA had installed in his place. Together they caused an immigration crisis on the scale of the Syrian Civil War at America's doorstep and arguably the bloodiest conflict the western hemisphere has ever seen. Wilson's expansion of government power ,crackdown on civil liberties, expansion of white supremacy to the federal level and entry into ww1 were also bad policies. Pretty much every US president did imperialist stuff but McKinley's blatant war of imperialism against the Philippines killed millions for little gain ranks among one of the worst. Hard to choose.

For the later 20th century I'd say that Bush Sr. takes the cake. I like progressive legislation and dislike random wars for no reason. The Bush government deregulated, cut programs and caused chaos through foreign interventions... very suspicious foreign interventions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfVs3WaE9Y
Every president did this sort of stuff though. Eisenhower let a Banana company become a government, Kennedy installed fascist governments throughout central America, etc.

21st century is easy. Bush. You can criticize Obama but Bush started two wars that are still costing the country a fortune in $ and lives for nothing. His government deregulated everything and arguably caused a financial crisis. Trump has declared no wars. I'd call you a fool for putting him even the bottom half of a bad president list.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Aug 19, 2018)

Apoth42 said:


> Another issue is that what is socially acceptable has changed. Do you judge a president on doing what is best for the country or doing what is right? Do you factor in hindsight or give them points for their efforts?
> 
> 17th century has to be Adams but he was a damn great. His competition is Washington himself so it doesn't mean much.
> 
> ...


Wilson was also a TRUE and HONEST fascist.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

I have a special place in my heart for Obama for spitting in the face of state rights for jack and shit. ("Muh gay mirage")


REGENDarySumanai said:


> Wilson was also a TRUE and HONEST fascist.


He looked like a ventriloquist puppet too.


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## Slap47 (Aug 19, 2018)

Y2K Baby said:


> I have a special place in my heart for Obama for spitting in the face of state rights for jack and shit. ("Muh gay mirage")



The supreme court did that though.


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## Y2K Baby (Aug 19, 2018)

Apoth42 said:


> The supreme court did that though.


I still blame a black person.


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## Deathfromabove (Aug 19, 2018)

Lyndon B. Johnson did more damage then any president I can think of. He escalated the Vietnam war from 16,000 American soldiers in 1963 to 550,000 in early 1968 causing tens of thousands of young American men to get slaughtered and god knows how many Vietnamese killed. He took away an immigration policy we had since the 1920s which helped America become the most powerful country in the world. He _ALSO_ helped setup the welfare state that tons of minorities are still stuck in while calling black people niggers in secret even referring to one of his bills as the "nigger bill"


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## CWCissey (Aug 19, 2018)

Deathfromabove said:


> Lyndon B. Johnson did more damage then any president I can think of. He escalated the Vietnam war from 16,000 American soldiers in 1963 to 550,000 in early 1968 causing tens of thousands of young American men to get slaughtered and god knows how many Vietnamese killed. He took away an immigration policy we had since the 1920s which helped America become the most powerful country in the world. He _ALSO_ helped setup the welfare state that tons of minorities are still stuck in while calling black people niggers in secret even referring to one of his bills as the "nigger bill"



After listening to that phonecall he made ordering a pair of trousers, I legit can't get mad at LBJ.


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## CWCchange (Aug 20, 2018)

Wilson and FDR for their roles in the world disorder which will continue to haunt us for decades to come.


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## Bassomatic (Aug 20, 2018)

Since they all have been hit I'd say in this order of problems
1: Abe
2: Wilson
3: FDR
4: LBJ

Abe was a tyrant and monster period. His massive over reach of power allowed all later presidents to get away with so much more they would not have had the power for if not for his disgusting abuses of power.

With out Abe the rest would have been cucked by the other two branches as our system was made to be. To think in a different timeline Wilson and FDR would be a lame duck and laughed at like how Bernie Sanders was. While LBJ would be seen as how we see McCain and cucked out of power.


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## Replicant Sasquatch (Aug 20, 2018)

Apoth42 said:


> Early 19th century would have to be Madison. The war of 1812 was chaotic and ended with no gains. Jackson killed Indians but literally all presidents did that so its odd how he gets singled out for it. He had a native as one of his sons and he tried to get that son into the military. He was arguably the least racist of the bunch and the first non-aristocratic president. His "trail of tears" wasn't even his legislation, it was VanBurens.



War of 1812 was a net victory of America.  It was fought because Brits were crimping our sailors, and when the war ended the Brits were no longer crimping our sailors.  I don't think calling it a wash because we didn't annex Canada is a fair metric.

As for Jackson, his status as Hitler for Indians is a shame because it was more nuanced than that.  The relocation of Indians was an attempt at preventing the massive race war which was inevitable.  It was an absolutely shitty solution for an even shittier problem.  It was damage control for the much larger and much more concerning issue of the awful treatment and hostility early Americans had for redskins.  Laying all that on the shoulders of one man is disingenuous and unfair.


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## Autopsy (Aug 20, 2018)

Blatantly LBJ, but only because JFK died too fast to fuck everybody even harder. 
Imagine being so much of an absolute bastard that you get in office for less than a term, inheriting a behemoth world-power of a nation straight from the nearly divinely inspired hands of Dwight D "had a science-backed economic policy and actually delivered on it" Eisenhower himself, and_ still_ manage to redesign the entire fucking planet's geopolitical landscape into a finger-paint nuclear-shadow cartoon version of itself that no one's been able to fix ever since.
It'd be impressive if it wasn't so stupid.


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## Dreamland (Aug 21, 2018)

Woodrow Wilson and Nixon turned the dollar from a gold-backed promise into toilet paper, i think Woodrow was the worse as he literally sold a government institute to the merchants.


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## Lensherr (Aug 26, 2018)

For me, it's between Wilson (for being a wannabe despot) and Lyndon Johnson (for being the progenitor of the modern welfare state).


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## This+ (Aug 26, 2018)

Buchanan for essentially starting the civil war, A. Johnson for fucking up the aftermath. 

Wilson is pretty shit too and looks like the biggest asshole to sit in the oval office.


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## Zaryiu (Sep 4, 2018)

I can't remember their names but either the president that caused the civil war with his decisios that caused tensions to become so bad that the fighting became inevitable or the president that when he was ex-president joined the CSA during said war


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## Slap47 (Sep 4, 2018)

Zaryiu said:


> I can't remember their names but either the president that caused the civil war with his decisios that caused tensions to become so bad that the fighting became inevitable or the president that when he was ex-president joined the CSA during said war



Pretty much every president since the constitution is responsible for doing nothing but make half-baked compromises. The constitution itself counting as one such compromise.


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## Zaryiu (Sep 4, 2018)

Honestly it would be easier to make a list of which presidents weren't bad


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## Bass (Sep 4, 2018)

Zaryiu said:


> Honestly it would be easier to make a list of which presidents weren't bad


1. Washington
2. J. K. Polk (maybe)
3. Everyone else except...
4:Buchanan


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## CWCissey (Sep 4, 2018)

Bass said:


> 1. Washington
> 2. J. K. Polk (maybe)
> 3. Everyone else except...
> 4:Buchanan



No Teddy Roosevelt?

Dude was fucking awesome.


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## 1Tonka_Truck (Sep 4, 2018)

Everyone of of these fucks eroded states rights and the power of the constitution to some degree. I used to go back and forth on 1/2, but I've had to fill out so much ATF paperwork that FDR has that shit locked down.

1. FDR
2. Wilson
3. Abe
4. Buchanan
5. Obama

Honorable mention for Carter. I like my president's useless, but that man took it too far.


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## Trans-istor (Sep 10, 2018)

I mean James Buchanan literally declared war on Utah, so there's that. On the other hand, Kennedy was as much a walking nuclear war as people say Trump is, and his hand-picked successor Johnson kind of started the Vietnam war. So... kinda hard to top them.



1Tonka_Truck said:


> Everyone of of these fucks eroded states rights and the power of the constitution to some degree. I used to go back and forth on 1/2, but I've had to fill out so much ATF paperwork that FDR has that shit locked down.
> 
> 1. FDR
> 2. Wilson
> ...



I have a particular loathing for Jimmy Carter because of his anti-nuke-power policies. Thanks Jim for shuttering Clinch River. Other than that... can't really disagree with your list.


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## Regu (Sep 11, 2018)

Trans-istor said:


> I have a particular loathing for Jimmy Carter because of his anti-nuke-power policies. Thanks Jim for shuttering Clinch River. Other than that... can't really disagree with your list.


I have to agree, between his anti-nuke agenda and purposefully ignoring Rhodesia, turning the breadbasket of Africa into the casket case. It's entirely possible that he has the most blood out of all of the US presidents on his hands due to the massive starvation that the fall of Rhodesia caused.


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## TiggerNits (Sep 11, 2018)

Carter and Bush Jr are both cases of "great man, wonderful person, shit president", Carter for his hilariously short sighted and inept policies at home and abroad and Bush Jr for letting his dad's idiot friends run the dealership.

But the worst president was easily Buchanan or Coolidge

FDR almost made a KGB agent secretary of state, Truman would have honored the desire of FDR post mortem but then called the guy a feckless cocksucker when drunk and put his golfing buddy in charge instead. Seriously though, FDR's administration was lousy with Soviet spies and hangers on.


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## JustStopDude (Sep 11, 2018)

Trans-istor said:


> hand-picked successor Johnson kind of started the Vietnam war.



Kennedy laid groumd work of Vietnam War by forcing support for Ngô Đình Diệm. He then doubled down on the stupid by authorizing the CIA backed assassination of him and his family, leaving South Korea without any political leadership whatsoever.

LBJ was stuck with an absolute mess...which he then used to get his domestic policies passed.


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## Shokew (Sep 11, 2018)

I can understand hating Obozo or Trump... Actually, no I can't with Trump (at least for now.). With Obozo.. Yeah - he did screw up healthcare in ways not thought actually possible. Don't get me started on our continued crippling lack of real industry.

However, Dubya Jr. DEFINITELY deserves all the hate he gets for putting us in the mess we are today and continue to be, going forward (that Obozo quietly continued, BTW.). And I stand by that as FACT.


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## Your Weird Fetish (Sep 11, 2018)

Dreamland said:


> Woodrow Wilson and Nixon turned the dollar from a gold-backed promise into toilet paper, i think Woodrow was the worse as he literally sold a government institute to the merchants.


Wilson did that. Nixon turned it into an oil backed promise that, while sleazy, does still hold some value via the petro-dollar.

Of course that married us to the Saudis, so your mileage may vary.


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## Gus (Oct 4, 2018)

LBJ should be listed there. I don't know how that war criminal didn't cross the OP's mind but Bush Sr. and Ford did? Not even Nixon was as bad as him. Hell, most of the major war crimes under Nixon can be pinned on Kissinger, but Johnson...


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## solidus (Oct 6, 2018)

NotAKitty said:


> George Sears.



You wot, m8?


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## KiwiKritter (Oct 6, 2018)

I don’t know tbh. I think Trump is at least the worst behaving


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## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> I don’t know tbh. I think Trump is at least the worst behaving


Trump's brand of bombastic antagonism really isn't any different than how pre-war politics played out in this country.  It wasn't until JFK and Camelot when "acting Presidential" became a thing.


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## KiwiKritter (Oct 6, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> Trump's brand of bombastic antagonism really isn't any different than how pre-war politics played out in this country.  It wasn't until JFK and Camelot when "acting Presidential" became a thing.


True, but he acts as a child and also since he represents the country he should not make a ass of himself by saying dumb shit on twitter


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## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> True, but he acts as a child and also since he represents the country he should not make a ass of himself by saying dumb shit on twitter


I think people actually caring what the President says on Twitter is part of why modern times suck so much ass.  They're literally falling for his guerilla marketing campaign.


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## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> True, but he acts as a child and also since he represents the country he should not make a ass of himself by saying dumb shit on twitter


I suggest that you crack a history book and stop listening to the media. The founding fathers and most great presidents have been outspoken and unafraid to offend people who they disagree with. Donald Trump is a return to proper form for the president. Fuck anyone who claims a president needs to put on an act or else they're childish. Fuck them with a bat wrapped in barbed wire.

Adding my opinion:
The worse president was William Harrison.


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## KiwiKritter (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> I suggest that you crack a history book and stop listening to the media. The founding fathers and most great presidents have been outspoken and unafraid to offend people who they disagree with. Donald Trump is a return to proper form for the president. Fuck anyone who claims a president needs to put on an act or else they're childish. Fuck them with a bat wrapped in barbed wire.
> 
> Adding my opinion:
> The worse president was William Harrison.




If thats true, just because history has been a certain way in the past doesn’t mean it should be that way today. I don’t know, I am not suggesting all of our other presidents are perfect, but in 2018 you would expect your president not to go on twitter rants


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## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> If thats true, just because history has been a certain way in the past doesn’t mean it should be that way today. I don’t know, I am not suggesting all of our other presidents are perfect, but in 2018 you would expect your president not to go on twitter rants


I would. The man did that before he was president so everybody knew what they were getting. Do you enjoy having two-faced pieces of trash representing you? Do you vote for someone and expect them to suddenly be a completely different person once they're elected? You're retarded


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## KiwiKritter (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> I would. The man did that before he was president so everybody knew what they were getting. Do you enjoy having two-faced pieces of trash representing you? Do you vote for someone and expect them to suddenly be a completely different person once they're elected? You're exceptional


Why do you assume I voted for Trump?


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> Why do you assume I voted for Trump?


I assume you didn't, since you seem to think being two-faced is a good thing.


----------



## KiwiKritter (Oct 6, 2018)

In all honesty, I am kind of young as in below 25, so I haven’t really been involved much in picking presidents. Maybe thats the issue, is I haven’t been involved in more elections?


Big Bad Fish said:


> I assume you didn't, since you seem to think being two-faced is a good thing.


I don’t want someone that is two faced, Trump can be real and honest, but there is a difference between being honest and acting ignorant about certain things. I guess we all make mistakes, but still.

I never said Trump was the worst president or anything, I just said from what my understanding is, he acts like a kid.


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> In all honesty, I am kind of young as in below 25, so I haven’t really been involved much in picking presidents. Maybe thats the issue, is I haven’t been involved in more elections?
> 
> I don’t want someone that is two faced, Trump can be real and honest, but there is a difference between being honest and acting ignorant about certain things. I guess we all make mistakes, but still.
> 
> I never said Trump was the worst president or anything, I just said from what my understanding is, he acts like a kid.


How does the man act like a kid? Should a man be meek and submissive, only speaking out when deemed appropriate by you? Explain your bullshit.
Tell your stepdad I said hello.


----------



## KiwiKritter (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> How does the man act like a kid? Should a man be meek and submissive, only speaking out when deemed appropriate by you? Explain your bullshit.
> Tell your stepdad I said hello.


What about my stepdad? 
No but didn’t he say shit about global warning tht it wasn’t real and it was made up by china? I mean maybe it was taken out of context but I don’t know it could have.


----------



## Rand /pol/ (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> What about my stepdad?
> No but didn’t he say shit about global warning tht it wasn’t real and it was made up by china? I mean maybe it was taken out of context but I don’t know it could have.


Can you tell you tell your stepdad I said he's a cuck


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

KiwiKritter said:


> What about my stepdad?
> No but didn’t he say shit about global warning tht it wasn’t real and it was made up by china? I mean maybe it was taken out of context but I don’t know it could have.


Global warming regulation does only serve to benefit China, yes.
I said to say hi to your stepdad because nobody ever told you it's a man's job to call out bullshit and speak their mind. Having a spine is a good thing.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 6, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> I think people actually caring what the President says on Twitter is part of why modern times suck so much ass.



I think it's pretty bad that the so-called most powerful man in the world acts like a bratty tween online.  Holy fucking shit.

Teddy Roosevelt would have kicked the shit out of this fat shit-talking pussy.


----------



## Rand /pol/ (Oct 6, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> I think it's pretty bad that the so-called most powerful man in the world acts like a bratty tween online.  Holy fucking shit.
> 
> Teddy Roosevelt would have kicked the shit out of this fat shit-talking pussy.


Didn't Teddy support women's suffrage or some other gay shit


----------



## Darwin Watterson (Oct 6, 2018)

Obama and Dubya were both pretty shit.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 6, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> I think it's pretty bad that the so-called most powerful man in the world acts like a bratty tween online.  Holy fucking shit.
> 
> Teddy Roosevelt would have kicked the shit out of this fat shit-talking pussy.


TR was a perfect presidential example of having confidence in your smack talk.


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> I think it's pretty bad that the so-called most powerful man in the world acts like a bratty tween online.  Holy fucking shit.
> 
> Teddy Roosevelt would have kicked the shit out of this fat shit-talking pussy.


Theodore Roosevelt would have shitposted on twitter even harder than Trump.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> Theodore Roosevelt would have shitposted on twitter even harder than Trump.


It would've been funny and witty shitposts though


----------



## Rand /pol/ (Oct 6, 2018)

Darwin Watterson said:


> Obama and Dubya were both pretty shit.


I hear this a lot about Dubya but in his situation he was going to be unpopular and fucked whatever he did.


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> It would've been funny and witty shitposts though


I think it'd be mostly challenges to fight. Roosevelt would be an internet tough guy who also was an IRL tough guy


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> I think it'd be mostly challenges to fight. Roosevelt would be an internet tough guy who also was an IRL tough guy


TR never really tried picking fights though.  He just finished them.


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> TR never really tried picking fights though.  He just finished them.


I don't think he'd have any shortage of challengers. If the media thinks Trump is hitler they'd think he was literally double hitler.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> I don't think he'd have any shortage of challengers. If the media thinks Trump is hitler they'd think he was literally double hitler.


Especially since he had a raging hateboner for Big Corporate and would've put Google and Amazon in his crosshairs immediately.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 6, 2018)

Big Bad Fish said:


> Theodore Roosevelt would have shitposted on twitter even harder than Trump.



It would have been good, though, not just wall to wall illiterate faggotry.


----------



## Kirito (Oct 6, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> It would have been good, though, not just wall to wall illiterate faggotry.


You don't understand the nuance and intellect it takes to talk about the constant negative press covfefe, or comment on the society we live in where only fat people drink diet coke.


----------



## escapegoat (Oct 6, 2018)

Harding.  The guy who admitted he was unfit for office. 

The only good thing he ever did was inspire one of history's greatest burns:



> His speeches left the impression of an army of pompous phrases moving over the landscape in search of an idea;  sometimes these meandering words would actually capture a straggling thought and bear it triumphantly as a prisoner in their midst, until it died of servitude and overwork.


----------



## Darwin Watterson (Oct 6, 2018)

Ron /pol/ said:


> I hear this a lot about Dubya but in his situation he was going to be unpopular and fucked whatever he did.


Fair enough. I myself am sick to death of that bullshit narrative of "Dubya destroyed the country and Obama fixed it."


----------



## Muncie Anderson (Oct 7, 2018)

Would William Henry Harrison count, or does the fact that he died just thirty-one days into his term disqualify him from "worst President ever"?


----------



## Kirito (Oct 8, 2018)

Muncie Anderson said:


> Would William Henry Harrison count, or does the fact that he died just thirty-one days into his term disqualify him from "worst President ever"?


Most people exclude him from historical rankings. I think he was objectively the worst.


----------



## Khayyam (Oct 8, 2018)

Trump.

Not because I think the democrats are any good, Bernie was the least of a cunt of all the candidates going last time and Hilary is vile but he still wasn't a good choice.

I'm more bothered by the United Nations research that finds since Trump took office, among other points.....


In the US there are 40 million people here who live in poverty, while 18.5 million live in extreme poverty and 5.3 million are in Third World conditions. That's right folks, there are more people in Thrid World conditions in the US than several African "Shitholes" as described by the God Emperor. 

Out of the OECD, the States have the highest youth poverty rates.
Citizens are sicker and live shorter lives than in other well-off democracies.
The U.S. has the highest rate of income inequality in the West.

https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/G18/125/30/PDF/G1812530.pdf?OpenElement

American Politics are fucked up, and the electorate and media appears obsessed with "The Issues" like abortion, gays, prayer in schools etc and not the shit that actually matters.  Not that these things don't have a place in the discussion elsewhere in the world, they do, but the US...Man. For the worlds self-dubbed no.1# you guys suck looking after your own. Sure there was poverty under Obama, he wasn't a messianic hero and I'm far from a fan, but things have gotten worse where it had been receeding under his tenure.

You've had plenty of shitstain leaders who u-turn on their promises and fuck the electorate silly, Trump isn't uniqiue in that aspect, but he's certainly the most destructive for a long time.

As for best...Um...Honorable mention for Washington I suppose, though I'd probably have gone for Lincoln or Roosevelt.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 8, 2018)

Khayyam said:


> In the US there are 40 million people here who live in poverty, while 18.5 million live in extreme poverty and 5.3 million are in Third World conditions. That's right folks, there are more people in Thrid World conditions in the US than several African "Shitholes" as described by the God Emperor.
> 
> Out of the OECD, the States have the highest youth poverty rates.
> Citizens are sicker and live shorter lives than in other well-off democracies.
> The U.S. has the highest rate of income inequality in the West.


None of these are things which magically happened in the past year and a half since Trump took office and none of them have gotten particularly better or worse since.  It's fucking braindead to assign blame for decades-long trends on the current President.  We'll see how things are at the end of his first (and probably second if the Dems keep being morons) term. 

As for comparing our poverty rates to Africa or some shit, fucking learn how numbers work.  There's 350 million people in the US and 5 million living in "Third World conditions" which is 1.5% of the total US population.  Compared with say, the Congo, where there's 78 million people and 78 million are living in Third World conditions.

I'm not a big fan of Trump either but if you wanna bring your Eurofag sensibilities to an American politics thread at least learn how American politics work.


----------



## Khayyam (Oct 8, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> None of these are things which magically happened in the past year and a half since Trump took office and none of them have gotten particularly better or worse since.  It's fucking braindead to assign blame for decades-long trends on the current President.  We'll see how things are at the end of his first (and probably second if the Dems keep being morons) term.



Nuking Obamacare for one. Sure, it wasn't good but it was something. He just gave the most vulnerable in your society a big fuck you after promising to help them.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/feder...s-health-housing-other-assistance-for-low-and

Trump's fantastic for the upper end of your society, but it wasn't the upper tier of society that formed the bulk of his voting block. He fucked them. Not the first politician to do so, won't be the last, but he's the most open about fucking them and making a virtue of it which is pretty sickening.



Replicant Sasquatch said:


> As for comparing our poverty rates to Africa or some shit, fucking learn how numbers work.  There's 350 million people in the US and 5 million living in "Third World conditions" which is 1.5% of the total US population.  Compared with say, the Congo, where there's 78 million people and 78 million are living in Third World conditions.


A percentage which the UN has highlighted is on a continuous rise since the rise of the Trump administration, where it had been falling. In other words, your standard of living is regressing unlike Africa where the same UN reports suggest it generally is on the rise.

For a few other comparisons where the US is far behind the rest of the developed world https://qz.com/879092/the-us-doesnt-look-like-a-developed-country/




Replicant Sasquatch said:


> I'm not a big fan of Trump either but if you wanna bring your Eurofag sensibilities to an American politics thread at least learn how American politics work.



I know enough to know you voted in someone who's doing pretty much the opposite of what he promised.

I appreciate American politics are skewed and very different from the rest of the world, but that to me is just more of a sign of how extreme and warped they've become (the fact everyone kept calling Bernie a socialist I personally find hilarious; he'd be well on the right wing pretty much anywhere else in the western world).

If the democrats are radical leftists I can't wait to see what happens if Britain implodes and Trump ends up sharing a podium with Comrade Corbyn.


----------



## Rand /pol/ (Oct 8, 2018)

Khayyam said:


> Trump.
> 
> Not because I think the democrats are any good, Bernie was the least of a cunt of all the candidates going last time and Hilary is vile but he still wasn't a good choice.
> 
> ...


The US isn't really comparable to Europe because we're both democracies. The US is not ethnically homogeneous, Europe is. European countries are often smaller and can spend less on infrastructure and roads. Most European countries border peaceful countries and have very little immigration (compared to the US, which borders a war torn narco state).


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 8, 2018)

Khayyam said:


> Nuking Obamacare for one. Sure, it wasn't good but it was something. He just gave the most vulnerable in your society a big fuck you after promising to help them.
> 
> https://www.cbpp.org/research/feder...s-health-housing-other-assistance-for-low-and
> 
> ...



I know whatever Nordic Caliphate you inhabit has the welfare state thing down pat but the United States doesn't and Trump's not to blame for that.  Our problems with government assistance come from the fact it isn't managed properly, not from lack of spending.  Trump's trimming the fat, and maybe one day someone will make it work.  I don't know if I want that to happen since for all Europe likes to jerk itself off over its government assistance that seems like it's come at the cost of pretty much every personal freedom we take for granted over here.


----------



## Mrs Paul (Oct 8, 2018)

Trump isn't Hitler.  He's Kaiser Wilhelm. 

I voted Nixon.  (Not just for Watergate, I mean the dude was so fucking paranoid he had the IRS investigating his "enemies").  

Andrew Jackson's "Fuck the Supreme Court!" and his treatment of Native Americans was pretty shitty.  

John Adams had his "Alien and Sedition Act".  Dude, you helped write the freaking Constitution and right away you go against it?


----------



## Fareal (Oct 8, 2018)

You guys are so hard on Nixon. He got you out of Vietnam, he normalised your relations with China, he put a man on the moon!

Sure he destroyed democracy in Chile, but fucking up a foreign country is practically compulsory for a modern US president. 

Cut the man a break. You’ve elected worse.


----------



## Pikonic (Oct 28, 2018)

John Adams


----------



## Crunchy Leaf (Oct 28, 2018)

C'mon...we all know it's James Buchanan. 



Fareal said:


> You guys are so hard on Nixon. He got you out of Vietnam, he normalised your relations with China, he put a man on the moon!
> 
> Sure he destroyed democracy in Chile, but fucking up a foreign country is practically compulsory for a modern US president.
> 
> Cut the man a break. You’ve elected worse.


And he's responsible for the EPA!


----------



## Pervious (Oct 29, 2018)

I'd say either Lincoln or JFK, they both said they'd serve a full term.

Seriously though I'm not an American so I have limited knowledge on the subject but it seems to me GWB was the worst in recent years. Much as I like him as a person between _Iraq 2: Electrocuted Hussienabu, _no child left behind, and his economic policy Bush was a pretty bad president. I grant you Bush held office in one of the hardest times to do so since the civil war given the dot com bust, 9/11 and the 2007 recession all happened while he was in office but his overall performance left a lot to be desired.



Big Bad Fish said:


> Global warming regulation does only serve to benefit China, yes.



It serves to benefit the entire GLOBE, hence GLOBAL warming.


----------



## Martys_not_smarty (Oct 29, 2018)

Pervious said:


> I'd say either Lincoln or JFK, they both said they'd serve a full term.
> 
> Seriously though I'm not an American so I have limited knowledge on the subject but it seems to me GWB was the worst in recent years. Much as I like him as a person between _Iraq 2: Electrocuted Hussienabu, _no child left behind, and his economic policy Bush was a pretty bad president. I grant you Bush held office in one of the hardest times to do so since the civil war given the dot com bust, 9/11 and the 2007 recession all happened while he was in office but his overall performance left a lot to be desired.


I moment I realized we were fooked with Dubya was when after talking with congress in regards to invading Iraq he was asked by a reporter if he consulted his father in regards to how to handle Saddam and he answered "No I consulted a father above him" yup he got the green light from the flying spaghetti monster to attack a sovereign nation on barely feasible pretenses.


----------



## Pervious (Oct 29, 2018)

Martys_not_smarty said:


> I moment I realized we were fooked with Dubya was when after talking with congress in regards to invading Iraq he was asked by a reporter if he consulted his father in regards to how to handle Saddam and he answered "No I consulted a father above him" yup he got the green light from the flying spaghetti monster to attack a sovereign nation on barely feasible pretenses.



I have to assume a lot of dubya was trying to make himself look like something he really wasn't, which is a self made American man. They guy when to Yale and has an IQ of around 125-130, everyone who's talked to him says he's very smart and to listen to him now that he's not a politician anymore you can tell the guy was really just acting a certain way to be disarming and also to make himself seem like he wasn't just Bush 2, that he wasn't his father. I have no doubt he brought it up at some point but simply didn't want to admit it to the world for fear of seeming like a member of the elite ruling class or a puppet of his father.

Also it's America so God is like franks red hot, put that shit on everything.


----------



## Martys_not_smarty (Oct 29, 2018)

Pretty much, he puts on the air of a rootin' tootin' cowboy but his whole lineage is nothing but a bunch of Kennebunkport carpet baggers.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 29, 2018)

Pervious said:


> I have no doubt he brought it up at some point but simply didn't want to admit it to the world for fear of seeming like a member of the elite ruling class or a puppet of his father.


Don't know why he filled his cabinet with dad's hunting buddies then.


----------



## DangerousGas (Oct 29, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> ... every personal freedom we take for granted over here.


Slightly off topic, I know, butI  keep seeing arguments like this in the grand US vs Everyone Else debate that powers the Internet, and aside from gun ownership and hate speech, I legitimately don't know what freedoms it is you're referring to. Would you care to enlighten me?


----------



## RadicalCentrist (Oct 29, 2018)

Lmao at the Nixon option.  What was the worst thing he did?  Spy on his enemies?  The last three presidents have spied on the entire damn country.  Is that what Nixon's problem was?  He didn't spy equally?

The dude is probably spinning in his grave jowls a gobbling reeing 'You motherfuckers impeached ME for this and now you do NOTHING'


----------



## Save the Loli (Oct 29, 2018)

Pervious said:


> I'd say either Lincoln or JFK, they both said they'd serve a full term.
> 
> Seriously though I'm not an American so I have limited knowledge on the subject but it seems to me GWB was the worst in recent years. Much as I like him as a person between _Iraq 2: Electrocuted Hussienabu, _no child left behind, and his economic policy Bush was a pretty bad president. I grant you Bush held office in one of the hardest times to do so since the civil war given the dot com bust, 9/11 and the 2007 recession all happened while he was in office but his overall performance left a lot to be desired.



That's exactly how you tell a great leader from a shit one. A great leader rises up to those challenges and conquers them, leaving things on the way to being better than before. A shit leader does the opposite. Bush was a textbook definition of a shit leader, and if there's a Civil War II or the downfall of the US in the next fifty years Bush will be the man blamed for leading the country down the path. And he's pretty shit for that guy really but at least he's memorable unlike Millard Fillmore or Franklin Pierce (both of whom were shit and should be glad are remembered only for being forgotten).


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Oct 29, 2018)

DangerousGas said:


> Slightly off topic, I know, butI  keep seeing arguments like this in the grand US vs Everyone Else debate that powers the Internet, and aside from gun ownership and hate speech, I legitimately don't know what freedoms it is you're referring to. Would you care to enlighten me?


Oh. Well gun ownership and "Hate speech" are really big ones.  We have the freedom (for now at least) from some foreign bureaucrat who just happens to get large donations from french billionaires declaring our honest opinions hate speech, and having our government enforce said foreign bureaucrat's ban on our honest opinions.  
The gun ownership helps with the other part, at least theoretically.  The idea being, if one of our officials starts putting the foreign bureaucrat's interests ahead of ours, and attempts to enforce them, a small number of armed government forces can't force a large number of armed citizens to just go along with it.

So, for example, in my country, at the moment, even if some dude in Brussels doesn't think I should be able to say anything bad about Soros, because if I do I might say something antisemetic, I still can.  I can say George Soros has undue influence over the politics in my country, and no matter how mad it makes that dude in brussels, I'm not gonna get arrested for it.  Even if some people say that statement is really a dogwhistle to antisemite nazis.  Hell, even if I fully intended it to be so, and stated it outright, the government still can't do shit to me about it.

Now, you might wonder, what value is there to being allowed to say antisemitic stuff, or racist stuff.  My answer is that it's really easy to label anything the people you don't like say as "Racist", especially where even straightforward dictionary definitions currently count as bigoted.

And every other country in the world is utterly dependent on the US, and its horrible, horrible freedoms.  That hateful speech overthrew monarchy in the first world, and established democracy, along with those evil guns.  Those evil guns continue to allow the rest of the free world to spend their resources keeping their people alive and devising stupider and stupider purity tests to administer to their citizens, instead of militaries running those countries.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 29, 2018)

DangerousGas said:


> Slightly off topic, I know, butI  keep seeing arguments like this in the grand US vs Everyone Else debate that powers the Internet, and aside from gun ownership and hate speech, I legitimately don't know what freedoms it is you're referring to. Would you care to enlighten me?



By "hate speech" I assume you mean anything that the current government doesn't like, because it is all considered hate speech.

And yes, that freedom is a pretty big one.


----------



## DangerousGas (Oct 29, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> By "hate speech" I assume you mean anything that the current government doesn't like, because it is all considered hate speech.
> 
> And yes, that freedom is a pretty big one.


TBH, in England it's only really been applied when someone's trying to incite violence. Scotland's the one that went full retard WRT Dankula.

:edit: @Corbin Dallas Multipass - don't assume that I've got a problem with guns, because I don't. I have a problem with idiots misusing guns, but I imagine that your opinions and mine would largely align in that regard - it's not the tool being held, but the tool doing the holding that's the problem there. As for the government oppressing the people, well - we had our last civil war a century prior to the USA's formation, so it's safe to say that as a nation we're either too entrenched or too complacent to bother with another one. It's not impossible to acquire firearms over here, it was just never anywhere near as popular, so there wasn't a huge ruckus when most of the guns were destroyed/impounded post-Dunblane.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 29, 2018)

DangerousGas said:


> TBH, in England it's only really been applied when someone's trying to incite violence.





You gotta be shittin me.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Oct 29, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> You gotta be shittin me.


Citizen: I don't think there's more than two genders
London Police: REEEEEEEEE you're inciting violence against transpeople now you go to jail!


----------



## Terrorist (Oct 30, 2018)

OBEME because nigger


----------



## DangerousGas (Oct 30, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> You gotta be shittin me.


Well, gag orders and superinjunctions have proven to be largely ineffectual, so I don't really count those as limitations that are worth a damn. They're also primarily designed to try and curb the UK's borderline rabid tabloid press, not the guy on the street.

If you're going to cite the Yaxley-Lennon thing, he knew full well what he was doing directly contravened the terms of his suspended sentence, and also that his attempt at 'reportage' would affect the outcome of a high profile trial.

Hate speech is a weird one: it's largely down to the arresting copper's discretion, because the legal wording is vague at best.

I'm extremely unlikely to get arrested for saying what I think to a crowd in a public place, unless it specifically involves inciting said crowd to inflict harm on a group of people or person - it's not the totalitarian level of social repression that you seem to think it is. If anything, it's more likely that I'd get told something along the lines of "wind it in, mate" by a copper than get cuffed by him.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 30, 2018)

DangerousGas said:


> Well, gag orders and superinjunctions have proven to be largely ineffectual, so I don't really count those as limitations that are worth a damn. They're also primarily designed to try and curb the UK's borderline rabid tabloid press, not the guy on the street.
> 
> If you're going to cite the Yaxley-Lennon thing, he knew full well what he was doing directly contravened the terms of his suspended sentence, and also that his attempt at 'reportage' would affect the outcome of a high profile trial.
> 
> ...



A few years back the cops in London threatened to arrest some guy for saying Scientology is a cult.


----------



## DangerousGas (Oct 30, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> A few years back the cops in London threatened to arrest some guy for saying Scientology is a cult.


If he wasn't actually arrested at the end of the interaction, then all it amounted to was words, so it's a bit of a moot comparison. Either way - even if he had been arrested, what would the charge have been? It certainly wouldn't have been hate speech, since he wasn't calling for all scientologists to be strung up.


----------



## GethN7 (Oct 30, 2018)

Just to toss out some redeeming characteristics for some of the usual assumed crappy presidents before I get to my pick for the worst:


Harding: He was a fuckup in the sense he had a shitty judgment of character when it came to his subordinates. His actual record aside from his terrible judgment in friends is actually decent if not outstanding, given he did a good job trying to fix the domestic economic pit Wilson left the US in due to WWI. He was one of the few pre-Great Depression Presidents to try and make the farming sector not suck so much, and while he didn't live long enough to do much about it, he denounced racism pretty hard.


Ford: Pardoning Nixon was a good move, Nixon's acceptance confirmed he was guilty as shit without dragging on hearings for years. His attempts to fix the economy weren't all that great, but at least he tried.


Carter: His foreign policy was highminded, but honestly, imploded on itself most of the time. Trying deal with countries on a moral basis when that just makes them think you are weak backfired hard, and Castro trolled him hard by dumping his lunatics and criminals on us. Have to give him credit for at least coming much farther than anyone else to getting peace for Israel implemented, not exactly his fault everyone else involved didn't want to play ball.


Wilson: He was a massive bigot, an authoritarian douchecanoe, and the League of Nations bullshit was the most autistic shit ever. On the positive side of the ledger, at least during his first term he did shore up the domestic front pretty decently, and he was fairly competent in his handling of World War I, he just sucked absolute ass in the aftermath.

@Save the Loli - Zimmerman telegram was actually real, but it's importance was pretty overstated, Mexico told the Germans to shove it, but Wilson used it as part of his excuse along with the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare to get Congress to declare war. I consider WWI a net positive economically for the U.S, it completely negated any credit deficit with Europe for quite some time.


Nixon: When you remove Watergate from the equation, he did a decent job trying to keep the economy from falling in on itself for awhile and his foreign policy based on realpolitik was pretty effective.


Grant: Yes, he proved far less competent than everyone thought, even if you liked him as a human being. On the good side, he fought tooth and nail to keep the era of Jim Crow at bay while he was in office. And while a lot of corrupt shit happened during his presidency, he was never personally involved, he just had Harding's problem of judging friends poorly and some crap, like the Credit Mobilier affair, had nothing to do with him, he got the blame anyway.


L.B. Johnson: Vietnam was a shitshow, no question. The Great Society program was certainly overambitious and the welfare state he helped set up was dumbass in hindsight, though some good laws like road safety regulations were born of that period at least.



Now that I covered them, I'd say both Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan share the "worst president crown".

In Buchanan's defense, he was handed an absolutely terrible situation, but he proceeded to handle it in the most stupid manner possible, to the point his last few months in office he proved so inept he was practically helping the proto-Confederancy.

Andrew Johnson is his post-war counterpart, promptly running any attempt at fixing shit into the ground just so he could slake his own ego, to the point that jackass set about inflaming tensions Lincoln knew he'd have to settle down after the war if he wanted the South to play ball again, which resulted in the absolute shitshow Reconstruction was.


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 30, 2018)

DangerousGas said:


> If he wasn't actually arrested at the end of the interaction, then all it amounted to was words, so it's a bit of a moot comparison. Either way - even if he had been arrested, what would the charge have been? It certainly wouldn't have been hate speech, since he wasn't calling for all scientologists to be strung up.



Only because he stopped doing what they threatened him over, and they only decided not to prosecute after it became international news.

So, yeah, if they say "quit speaking or we'll arrest you and prosecute you" and you stop, they might not.  Sometimes.  At least if they get embarrassing news coverage for shielding a notoriously criminal organization.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Oct 30, 2018)

Save the Loli said:


> Bush was a textbook definition of a shit leader, and if there's a Civil War II or the downfall of the US in the next fifty years Bush will be the man blamed for leading the country down the path.


The roots of the Far-Right and the Far-Left in the USA were caused from him.


----------



## Your Weird Fetish (Oct 31, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> Don't know why he filled his cabinet with dad's hunting buddies then.


That's how dynasty politics work. Just be glad that we got over the main warlord dying in a "hunting accident" like back when this kind of thing was first popularized in the west.



ICametoLurk said:


> The roots of the Far-Right and the Far-Left in the USA were caused from him.


I'm sure it looks that way if you're too young to actually be allowed to post on this site but ideologies are a lot older than the moment you became aware they existed and decided you understood them perfectly.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Oct 31, 2018)

The only thing you could maybe say Bush 2 started was the religious right as a political force, at least this latest time.  The far right and far left have existed long, long before he was born.


----------



## Save the Loli (Nov 1, 2018)

ICametoLurk said:


> The roots of the Far-Right and the Far-Left in the USA were caused from him.



That we see today in the US you mean, with the constant tard battles between antifa and the Proud Boys/Kekistanis/Oathkeepers right?

Personally I'd go back to Clinton somewhat too since you can trace a line from some elements of the modern American far-right back through some elements of the Tea Party and from there to the militia movement. Actual neo-Nazis and classic white nationalists and other racist types who mostly have their roots in opposing the civil rights movement joined in soon. But most of the alleged far-right are just internet trolls not actually involved in anything except pissing people off.

The far-left, at least today's, seems to have started with Occupy Wall Street once it turned into pot-fueled hippie drum circles, progressive stacks, and hobos shooting up drugs. It then cannibalized what was left of the Bush opposition, from your anti-war types to your new atheists/anti-religious right people (killing that community for good with Atheism+ and Islamophilia) to your environmentalist types to your feminists to gay rights activists. Antifa started in the punk scene but mostly did nothing more political than beat up racist punks or get involved in crime like antifa gang FSU, although they were always there and notably started a riot at the WTO protests in 2000. What unites them is a current of far-left college professors going back to the 60s anti-Vietnam War movement. They've coopted older leftist groups like the SPUSA and IWW but that's just simple entryism into almost dead groups.

But the cultural and economic conditions since Bush are definitely the main reason why there's been such a resurgence of both of them.



Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> The only thing you could maybe say Bush 2 started was the religious right as a political force, at least this latest time.  The far right and far left have existed long, long before he was born.



Bush 2 was their dying gasp, after Obama won they mostly folded into the Tea Party and other conservative groups.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 1, 2018)

Save the Loli said:


> Bush 2 was their dying gasp, after Obama won they mostly folded into the Tea Party and other conservative groups.


Fair enough, maybe I'm just showing my age here.


----------



## Mrs Paul (Nov 2, 2018)

Can we at least agree that Trump is the worst _dressed_ president?  I mean the guy puts scotch tape on his ties.  All that money and he can't even afford a decent tie pin?


----------



## AnOminous (Nov 2, 2018)

Mrs Paul said:


> Can we at least agree that Trump is the worst _dressed_ president?  I mean the guy puts scotch tape on his ties.  All that money and he can't even afford a decent tie pin?



William Henry Harrison for literally dying from how badly he was dressed.


----------



## Boji (Nov 4, 2018)

Truman. Utterly despicable person. Had the lowest approval rating ever recorded.


----------



## Zaryiu (Nov 5, 2018)

Replicant Sasquatch said:


> TR was a perfect presidential example of having confidence in your smack talk.


You should read up about his post-presidential when he lost the plot


----------



## GethN7 (Nov 5, 2018)

Zaryiu said:


> You should read up about his post-presidential when he lost the plot



He learned from that, in his defense. By the 1916 election, he decided not to run again because he didn't want to screw things up again.


----------



## Bass (Nov 6, 2018)

Mrs Paul said:


> Can we at least agree that Trump is the worst _dressed_ president?  I mean the guy puts scotch tape on his ties.  All that money and he can't even afford a decent tie pin?


James Monroe kept on dressing like it was 1776 in 1824.


----------



## lowkey (Nov 10, 2018)

Wilson.

Private federal reserve.


----------



## Guts Gets Some (Nov 10, 2018)

I definitely voted Reagan.

It's almost comical how warped both sides' perspectives of him actually is. He's either the savior or the worst ever. Even out trumps Trump in being so polarizing.


----------



## lowkey (Nov 10, 2018)

Ron /pol/ said:


> The US isn't really comparable to Europe because we're both democracies. The US is not ethnically homogeneous, Europe is. European countries are often smaller and can spend less on infrastructure and roads. Most European countries border peaceful countries and have very little immigration (compared to the US, which borders a war torn narco state).



Ha, wait until you learn about the Schengen zone or take your first visit to london, paris, berlin, rome or any other significant west european city.

We may not be at say california levels, but you doubt you would write what you did if you were better informed about europe.


----------



## Floating in Ether (Nov 10, 2018)

Lincoln. He turned a working constitutional republic into a federally dominated garbage state, whilst encouraging the death of hundreds of thousands and the utter rape-murdering and theft of half the country.


----------



## Replicant Sasquatch (Nov 10, 2018)

Floating in Ether said:


> Lincoln. He turned a working constitutional republic into a federally dominated garbage state, whilst encouraging the death of hundreds of thousands and the utter rape-murdering and theft of half the country.


That check was signed when the Southern spergery over owning human beings reached the point they actually attacked other Americans.


----------



## 1Tonka_Truck (Nov 10, 2018)

Multi-quote is your friend, Mr Squatch.


----------



## REGENDarySumanai (Nov 10, 2018)

GethN7 said:


> He learned from that, in his defense. By the 1916 election, he decided not to run again because he didn't want to screw things up again.


Then he died three years later. Bummer. At least we got the teddy bear from him though.


----------



## Übertroon (Nov 18, 2018)

Of the post war presidents? Carter's presidency is certainly one big long oof


----------



## Vyxenn (Nov 25, 2018)

William Henry Harrison. Too stupid to dress properly.

In all seriousness though, James Buchanan. He didn't do shit about the nearly-imploded country.


----------



## Bassomatic (Nov 25, 2018)

Übertroon said:


> Of the post war presidents? Carter's presidency is certainly one big long oof


He was an ineffective pres and messed up a lot. I didn't put him on worst list for two reasons one he tried and was just ham fisted, not evil Second he's done a fuck ton post presidency to help the world and is an all around good guy, probably why such a bad pres.

I'd gladly shake the mans hand and be honored to do so, but be thankful I never had him as my POTUS.


----------



## AnOminous (Nov 25, 2018)

Vyxenn said:


> William Henry Harrison. Too stupid to dress properly.
> 
> In all seriousness though, James Buchanan. He didn't do shit about the nearly-imploded country.



Anyone who wants to seize the title of worst President has a lot of work trying to beat Buchanan.

Plus he was a butt pirate.


----------



## IV 445 (Nov 25, 2018)

Martin Van Buren? More like Martin Van RUIN







Edit: what, too soon?


----------



## DarthBrooks (Dec 2, 2018)

Taft. I am suprised noone has mentioned him yet.


----------



## juliannice (Dec 11, 2018)

obama , he was black


----------



## Shadfan666xxx000 (Dec 12, 2018)

Aln


eldri said:


> Slightly fftopic:, but any US history books to recommend?
> I am interested in this thread but forgot most of US history before 20th century


Albions seed for colonial history and battlecry for freedom for the lead up to and events of the civil war.


----------



## Vlad the Inhaler (Dec 18, 2018)

Two way tie. Millard Fillmore and Rutherford B. Hayes. The fact that most of you probably can't even pick what century these two beauties were elected in is no discredit upon you. But it speaks volumes as to how utterly execrable and excised from our history these two losers deserve to be.


----------



## Slap47 (Dec 19, 2018)

Floating in Ether said:


> Lincoln. He turned a working constitutional republic into a federally dominated garbage state, whilst encouraging the death of hundreds of thousands and the utter rape-murdering and theft of half the country.



The South seceded before he took office. The only real criticism I have is suspension of habeous corpus. 



DarthBrooks said:


> Taft. I am suprised noone has mentioned him yet.



Taft was a horrible president. He meddled in Mexico and basically created a Syrian Civil War tier refugee crisis right on America's doorstep. 

He was also corrupt and got in the way of Teddy, one of America's best presidents. 



Vyxenn said:


> William Henry Harrison. Too stupid to dress properly.
> 
> In all seriousness though, James Buchanan. He didn't do shit about the nearly-imploded country.



You can basically say that about every president since Washington though. They all tried to maintain the slave-free balance by doing retarded nonsense. 



Bojangles Unchained said:


> Truman. Utterly despicable person. Had the lowest approval rating ever recorded.



A progressive champion that resigned poor because he didn't want to whore out the presidency? 



AnOminous said:


> William Henry Harrison for literally dying from how badly he was dressed.



To be fair, all those early 19th century presidents were drinking cholera water and died pretty early.


----------



## Picklechu (Dec 19, 2018)

I fucking hate Andrew Jackson, James Buchanan, Woodrow Wilson, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, and Barack Obama, although Buchanan is easily the worst. I also strongly dislike Franklin Pierce, Andrew Johnson, and Franklin Roosevelt. Trump isn't great so far - I wish he wouldn't seek reelection - but I can't really judge him in a historical sense while he's in office.


----------



## vhstape (Dec 20, 2018)

Reagan's due to his relationship with wall street, number of deregulations and reaganomics, One of the few good things Nixon did was the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency and he  did everything he could to fuck them over. Reagan was really the start of many of bad policies which those that succeeded him made even worse.
George W. Bush and Obama are close with the global surveillance which makes Nixon  look like a good guy with watergate.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 20, 2018)

vhstape said:


> Reagan's due to his relationship with wall street, number of deregulations and reaganomics, One of the few good things Nixon did was the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency and he  did everything he could to fuck them over. Reagan was really the start of many of bad policies which those that succeeded him made even worse.
> George W. Bush and Obama are close with the global surveillance which makes Nixon  look like a good guy with watergate.


Reaganomics worked splendidly to stop skyrocketing inflation, at the cost of a temporary spike in unemployment. Once the disastrous inflation was taken care of, unemployment went down and the economy was doing fucking excellent.
Just like now. Thanks to Reaganomics, or supply side economics, or actually thinking about economics as opposed to tax tax tax tax.

This is another leftist revision of history.  Reaganomics work.


----------



## Hellbound Hellhound (Dec 20, 2018)

Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Reaganomics worked splendidly to stop skyrocketing inflation, at the cost of a temporary spike in unemployment. Once the disastrous inflation was taken care of, unemployment went down and the economy was doing fucking excellent.
> Just like now. Thanks to Reaganomics, or supply side economics, or actually thinking about economics as opposed to tax tax tax tax.
> 
> This is another leftist revision of history.  Reaganomics work.



The only thing Reaganomics succeeded in doing was running up huge deficits, gutting the middle class, and lining the pockets of the same people who would eventually outsource American jobs to China.


----------



## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Dec 20, 2018)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> The only thing Reaganomics succeeded in doing was running up huge deficits, gutting the middle class, and lining the pockets of the same people who would eventually outsource American jobs to China.



Yeah. That must be the explanation behind the horrible economic slump the US is currently in.


----------



## c-no (Dec 20, 2018)

Andrew Johnson. @Save the Loli summed it up:


Save the Loli said:


> Donald Drumpf of course, that one recent poll said he was the worst!
> 
> But really, probably Andrew Johnson. All sorts of corruption, helping to fuck up Reconstruction, and betray Lincoln's legacy. He was so fucking shit the only reason he wasn't impeached was because he had bribed a few senators. Buchanan was just a mediocre president who happened to be president at the absolute worst time, and had a lot less control over the outcome. Andrew Johnson was president at one of the most important times in American history, and utterly and monumentally fucked up despite having ample opportunity not to.


----------



## AnOminous (Dec 20, 2018)

c-no said:


> Andrew Johnson. @Save the Loli summed it up:



Except Andrew Johnson actually was impeached.


----------



## c-no (Dec 20, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> Except Andrew Johnson actually was impeached.


Overlooked that part and one thing I'm a bit hazy on was the bribery part. IIRC there was only one guy that accepted his bribe only to regret it soon after.


----------



## AnOminous (Dec 20, 2018)

c-no said:


> Overlooked that part and one thing I'm a bit hazy on was the bribery part. IIRC there was only one guy that accepted his bribe only to regret it soon after.



It would have been a catastrophe for him to be convicted of violating a flagrantly unconstitutional law (the Tenure of Office Act) and doing what was within the constitutional powers of a President.


----------



## Save the Loli (Dec 21, 2018)

It's believed that Johnson would never have been impeached because he had bribed numerous senators. While he was acquitted by one vote, his crew had several senators in his pocket who would have provided that "one vote". I don't think it's possible for Johnson to have been impeached since the Republicans were too corrupt themselves (ever hear of the U.S. Grant administration?).



Corbin Dallas Multipass said:


> Reaganomics worked splendidly to stop skyrocketing inflation, at the cost of a temporary spike in unemployment. Once the disastrous inflation was taken care of, unemployment went down and the economy was doing fucking excellent.
> Just like now. Thanks to Reaganomics, or supply side economics, or actually thinking about economics as opposed to tax tax tax tax.
> 
> This is another leftist revision of history.  Reaganomics work.



He threw out the baby with the bathwater and helped put America on the shitty neoliberal path which set us up for the shit we deal with today. Same with his crony Thatcher. All either of them did was present a charismatic figure (not so much with Thatcher, but for a female politician she was pretty respectable even if you hated her) to rally behind. I'll give Reagan credit for beating the USSR with his huge military spending and aggressive foreign policy, but domestically he set America down a horrible path.

Last good Republican president was Nixon. Kept us away from the excesses of the 60s counterculture, and kept us away from McGovern's shit, although IMO either Hubert Humphrey, Gene McCarthy, or Edmund Muskie might have done better. He might've been an asshole in some ways, but at least he did plenty of good at the same time and didn't go all out for random corporate bastards or retarded foreign politics.



Hellbound Hellhound said:


> The only thing Reaganomics succeeded in doing was running up huge deficits, gutting the middle class, and lining the pockets of the same people who would eventually outsource American jobs to China.



Recently deceased Deep State leader George H.W. Bush would've been better. He seemed to have a bit more of a solid goal, and if that Jodie Foster fanboy had killed Reagan, he would've been a good president. Of course the opposition was shit, since Mondale was pretty dumb, Dukakis a prototype of the modern Democrat, Carter was mediocre as president (but IMO not as bad as he's accused of being) and better as a diplomat, etc., morons like Jerry Brown and Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson were prominent. The 80s were as bad for the Democrats as today's Democrats are, and it led to the rise of the Clintons. Al Gore in 1988 might've been good though, since he was still connected to the people, not as connected to the Clintons at that point, and had a great vision. Sadly, his years as vice president corrupted him and he lost his home state (and thus the election) because he had grown too detatched from his local allies.


----------



## Boji (Dec 22, 2018)

Apoth42 said:


> A progressive champion



Right, like I said, an utterly despicable person. Which is why he is today considered one of the greats among academics despite the fact that he was hated by the public more than any other president.


----------



## Kate Farms Shill (Dec 22, 2018)

James Buchanan.


Shadfan666xxx000 said:


> Aln
> Albions seed for colonial history and battlecry for freedom for the lead up to and events of the civil war.



I second Battlecry, McPherson is kind of a jackass but this book is incredible. The previous one in this series, What Hath God Wrought by Daniel Walker Howe is pretty worth the read too. It's long as hell and definitely has an agenda (reforming the image of John Quincy Adams in American memory) but it's a good overview of Early Republic history when we still were high on independence and trying to figure out how to nation.


----------



## Deadwaste (Dec 26, 2018)

andrew jackson is pretty high up on that list


----------



## Slap47 (Dec 26, 2018)

Deadwaste said:


> andrew jackson is pretty high up on that list



Andrew Jackson was an excellent president. It's odd how only the populist president that took on the banks is slandered as an Indian killer when they all did it.


----------



## Orkeosaurus (Dec 27, 2018)

William Henry Harrison. It might have rained at Trump's inauguration but at least it didn't kill him.

Although he had a great campaign slogan.


----------



## Freddy Freaker (Jan 6, 2019)

Woodrow Wilson for giving us the Federal Reserve. All that needs to be said


----------



## Son of Odin (Jun 5, 2019)

FDR because of all of the unconstitutional shit he pulled in his four terms: the NFA (National Firearms Act) of 1934, the ban on private ownership of gold, Japanese-American internment, the peacetime draft enacted in 1940, etc...


----------



## Rand /pol/ (Jun 5, 2019)

Son of Odin said:


> FDR because of all of the unconstitutional shit he pulled in his four terms: the NFA (National Firearms Act) of 1934, the ban on private ownership of gold, Japanese-American internment, the peacetime draft enacted in 1940, etc...


Ignore what a said in the OP, that was mostly bait, but there's nothing wrong with any of those except for maybe the internment camps. Your average hick shouldn't be allowed to own a machine gun, you don't need gold, and had the draft not been enacted at that time the US military would've been even worse against Japan.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Jun 5, 2019)

Buchanan's the only one who basically guaranteed a Civil War would happen, so he gets the slot until further notice


----------



## GethN7 (Jun 5, 2019)

He isn't at the absolute bottom of the pit, but he's pretty close, so I'm going with Grover Cleveland.

Cleveland was one of those guys who, if you consider the predecessors they had, you can see where he screwed up hard.

His first term took the relatively chill and laidback period he inherited from Chester Arthur (who at least made no major mistakes) and decided that was a great time to be a penny pincher when Arthur realized not throttling the economy was a good idea. His "sound money" stance also pissed off the farmers and Midwest when gold and silver were fighting words economically.

By the time Benjamin Harrison took over, he spent his term basically trying to undo the damage Cleveland did, trying to chart a middle course to calm down the gold and silver factions and tried to straighten out foreign trade with a levelheaded approach to tariffs.

By Cleveland's second term, his insistence on resuming where he first left off torpedoed all that economic groundwork Harrison put in place and caused a recession, not helped by alienating those gold and silver factions Harrison worked hard to keep from clawing each other's faces off, and McKinley had to spend most of his first term resuming where Harrison left off to fix things.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 5, 2019)

Ron /pol/ said:


> Ignore what a said in the OP, that was mostly bait, but there's nothing wrong with any of those except for maybe the internment camps. Your average hick shouldn't be allowed to own a machine gun, you don't need gold, and had the draft not been enacted at that time the US military would've been even worse against Japan.


Shut up, r.etard.


----------



## The best and greatest (Jun 5, 2019)

Flying_with_the_Penguins said:


> Woodrow Wilson was easily the most authoritarian president in U.S history, so I'd have to go with him.


More authoritarian than "Now let them enforce it" Jackson?



Save the Loli said:


> Donald Drumpf of course, that one recent poll said he was the worst!
> 
> But really, probably Andrew Johnson. All sorts of corruption, helping to fuck up Reconstruction, and betray Lincoln's legacy. He was so fucking shit the only reason he wasn't impeached was because he had bribed a few senators. Buchanan was just a mediocre president who happened to be president at the absolute worst time, and had a lot less control over the outcome. Andrew Johnson was president at one of the most important times in American history, and utterly and monumentally fucked up despite having ample opportunity not to.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say we got NOTHING out of WW1. Vested interests made a mint selling weapons and supplies to the belligerents helping spur on what would eventually become known as the roaring twenties. It also set the stage for WW2 which would eventually solidify American power over Europe and the world at large. That this was unintentional and/or almost immediately pissed away by the following generations in both cases is beside the point!


----------



## Rand /pol/ (Jun 5, 2019)

Y2KKK Baby said:


> Shut up, r.etard.


no, u, conservatard


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 5, 2019)

Flying_with_the_Penguins said:


> Woodrow Wilson was easily the most authoritarian president in U.S history, so I'd have to go with him.


Also, that's a stupid and uneducated opinion. Really? Not either Roosevelt, Jackson, Bush Jr., McKinely, etc? Mr. "Voluntary Involvement man" is?


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 5, 2019)

Lincoln.  Someone should have shot his ass sooner.


----------



## Deadwaste (Jun 5, 2019)

Sprig of Parsley said:


> Lincoln.  Someone should have shot his ass sooner.


confederacy 2 when?


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 5, 2019)

Deadwaste said:


> confederacy 2 when?


Probably balkanization first anyway.

I was seriously considering putting Alexander Hamilton down instead despite him not being a president, because that piece of shit is why the Supremacy Clause even exists.


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jun 5, 2019)

I despise Carter, though he's definitely not the worst. Just a real mediocrity. Gutless moron who wouldn't stand up to foreign powers who let the Iran hostages twist in the wind, fucked over Rhodesia by trusting the ZANU/ZAPU, gave the Canal back to Panama, worsened the staglation/OPEC oil crisis through his incompetence, and has dedicated the rest of his life to buddying up with as many foreign dictators as he can.

I had the "privilege" of going to his church for a Sunday school lesson as part of a church group. His Sunday school lesson consisted of him rambling about politics, particularly blaming all of his failures on other Presidents, blaming all of North Korea's failures on the US, and rambling about Trump. Even the Democrat teacher who took us, who loves Carter, admitted that he was full of shit. 

A disgustingly and completely undeservedly arrogant weasel of a man. The fact that the poll rates him no worse than Reagan is mind-boggling.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Jun 5, 2019)

Sprig of Parsley said:


> Probably balkanization first anyway.
> 
> I was seriously considering putting Alexander Hamilton down instead despite him not being a president, because that piece of shit is why the Supremacy Clause even exists.


How is the Supremacy Clause a bad thing for average people? Not letting states come up with a bunch of restrictive shit that would be blatantly unconstitutional but getting away with it because they're the STATE instead of the FEDERAL government seems like a good thing to me.


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 5, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> How is the Supremacy Clause a bad thing for average people? Not letting states come up with a bunch of restrictive shit that would be blatantly unconstitutional but getting away with it because they're the STATE instead of the FEDERAL government seems like a good thing to me.


Because the Fed can choke to death on a bag of fucking dicks, its job should have been mustering an army and not a god-damned thing more.  As it turns out the Fed is far more eager to fuck with the Constitution and Bill of Rights than anyone else, and small fucking wonder.


----------



## CheezzyMach (Jun 5, 2019)

Sprig of Parsley said:


> Lincoln.  Someone should have shot his ass sooner.


And what did Lincoln do to earn this level of hate?


----------



## kadoink (Jun 5, 2019)

CheezzyMach said:


> And what did Lincoln do to earn this level of hate?


Remember the party when he freed the slaves? He didn't free the slaves all over the world, so modern slavery is all his fault.


----------



## Sprig of Parsley (Jun 5, 2019)

kadoink said:


> Remember the party when he freed the slaves? He didn't free the slaves all over the world, so modern slavery is all his fault.


He didn't even free the slaves within his own damn nation.  There were slaveholding states in the North and they got a free fucking pass.  He did the whole emancipation thing to fuck the shit out of the South for having the temerity to say "No, FUCK YOU" when they revolted for the same damn reason the American Revolution happened.

People have this weird fucking modern notion that the North was full of enlightened individuals who all thought slavery was shit.  Newsflash, dipshits, the abolitionists were fucking fringe in the North until they became a weapon of political expedience against those uppity fucking Rebs the North had been busy screwing bloody with taxes.  Lincoln is quoted as basically saying he would do whatever it took to smash the South's rebellion, and he didn't particularly care whether abolishing slavery was the Right Thing to do or not - only that it would crush the South and win him his gigantic pissing match.


----------



## kadoink (Jun 5, 2019)

Sprig of Parsley said:


> He didn't even free the slaves within his own damn nation.  There were slaveholding states in the North and they got a free fucking pass.  He did the whole emancipation thing to fuck the shit out of the South for having the temerity to say "No, FUCK YOU" when they revolted for the same damn reason the American Revolution happened.


I know that, you know that. Anyone who takes the time to read a book knows that, you know who doesn't know that? Reddit, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna be reduced to reddit!


----------



## CheezzyMach (Jun 7, 2019)

Anyway for me the worst Presidents are Bush and Obama.

I'm pretty sure that in the annuals of history there's been worse but I wasn't alive when those people were in office so they have no effect on my life.

Bush though is the one who started the slow chipping away at the Constitution for the sake of "national safety" with shit like the Patriot Act and I personally feel his administration's witch hunting of "terrorist sympathizers" and how militant the Religious Right was under his tenure is directly responsible for  the current SJW zeitgeist's islamophilia and euphoric hatred of Christianity.

Obama I blame for the current PC zeitgeist's coddling of minorities since the media loved to paint anyone critical of him as racists and he did nothing to discourage this and now the DNC and Far Left have weaponized it against anyone critical of the Party and I will never forgive him for the farce of Obamacare and his "Dear Colleague" letter causing Title IX inquisitions to ramp up.


----------



## Eugene Drizzledick (Jun 7, 2019)

Bush 2 or Lincoln. They were responsible for the most murder. I hate Wilson the most, though.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 7, 2019)

CheezzyMach said:


> Obama I blame for the current PC zeitgeist's coddling of minorities since the media loved to paint anyone critical of him as racists and he did nothing to discourage this and now the DNC and Far Left have weaponized it against anyone critical of the Party and I will never forgive him for the farce of Obamacare and his "Dear Colleague" letter causing Title IX inquisitions to ramp up.


Truly, deserving of the "worst president" title.


----------



## NehrimAtFucksGiven (Jun 7, 2019)

Drumpf and Fagbama.


----------



## Varisi na Vienea Cadence (Jun 7, 2019)

Andrew Jackson was the closest thing Americans had to a tyrant


----------



## Jace E. Denton (Jun 7, 2019)

my mom


----------



## kadoink (Jun 7, 2019)

Obama.  Bush jr was bad, but Obama was just Bush Jr with more a positive media presence.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 7, 2019)

Varisi na Vienea Cadence said:


> Andrew Jackson was the closest thing Americans had to a tyrant


Not FDR, you utter moron?


----------



## Varisi na Vienea Cadence (Jun 7, 2019)

I don't recall FDR marching the army down to the South and threating to hang them all if they didn't comply wth the Reconstruction. FDR's saving grace was the fact he lead us through war time, so re hardly speak of him in a bad light despite the things he did like imprisoning fellow Americans all because they looked like enemy.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 7, 2019)

Varisi na Vienea Cadence said:


> I don't recall FDR marching the army down to the South and threating to hang them all if they didn't comply wth the Reconstruction. FDR's saving grace was the fact he lead us through war time, so re hardly speak of him in a bad light despite the things he did like imprisoning fellow Americans all because they looked like enemy.


Reconstruction? As in Johnson? Not Jackson.


----------



## Coach Kreeton Of All That (Jun 8, 2019)

Freddy Freaker said:


> Woodrow Wilson for giving us the Federal Reserve. All that needs to be said



He also made the proto-fail version of the U.N. Though to be fair, the U.N. remains full of fail still.


----------



## Bob's Ghost (Jun 8, 2019)

James Garfield, he just laid around his entire term.


----------



## Gordon Cole (Jun 8, 2019)

Buchanan, no question. Despite how each president is now the "worst president ever" depending on you p.o.v, it's really hard to top being the one who led the way for America's first and only civil war.

Wilson, Coolidge and a lot of the presidents before Buchanan are close runner-ups.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Jun 8, 2019)

Sexy Times Hitler said:


> Wilson, Coolidge and a lot of the presidents before Buchanan are close runner-ups.


Bad opinions. Hating Wilson seems to be a meme here.


----------



## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Jun 9, 2019)

Hellbound Hellhound said:


> The only thing Reaganomics succeeded in doing was running up huge deficits, gutting the middle class, and lining the pockets of the same people who would eventually outsource American jobs to China.



That line is bullshit, albeit bullshit that gets parroted a lot.

When economists have looked at social mobility, they've found that there's more movement from the middle class to the upper class than there is from the middle class to the lower class.

The middle class is shrinking because it's getting richer (on net), not poorer.


----------



## Slap47 (Jun 9, 2019)

Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> That line is bullshit, albeit bullshit that gets parroted a lot.
> 
> When economists have looked at social mobility, they've found that there's more movement from the middle class to the upper class than there is from the middle class to the lower class.
> 
> The middle class is shrinking because it's getting richer (on net), not poorer.



Poor ass people are calling themselves lower middle class and some define the middleclass as making 500k a year. 

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.  All those standard Bernie talking points are correct and Reagan/Bush era policies are to blame.


----------



## V0dka (Jun 9, 2019)

kadoink said:


> Obama.  Bush jr was bad, but Obama was just Bush Jr with more a positive media presence.



At least Bush Jr was honest.

"I earned capital in this campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it," Bush told reporters. "It is my style."

"When you win, there is ... a feeling that the people have spoken and embraced your point of view," Bush said. "And that's what I intend to tell Congress, that I made it clear what I intend to do as the president; now let's work." 

"I really didn't come here to hold the office, just to say 'Gosh, it was fun to serve,' " Bush said. "I came here to get some things done." 

"My goal is to work on the ideal, and to reach out and to continue to work and find common ground," Bush said. "On the other hand, I've been wisened to the ways of Washington."

"I'm not blaming one party or the other, it's just the reality of Washington, D.C.," he said.


----------



## Sanshain (Jun 9, 2019)

*WILLLLSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!*


----------



## Pol Pots Pooter (Jun 10, 2019)

Harding, with Hayes a very close second.

Look, if you sincerely think any President in the past 70 years was the "the worst", you really need to turn off the talking heads and look into the shit that got pulled in the Gilded Age and inter-war period. Full stop.


----------



## Truthspeaker (Jun 13, 2019)

While it remains to be seen whether or not he'll cause or enable the most damage of any US POTUS, Donald Trump is certainly the dumbest and least-qualified POTUS, as well as the worst person ever to be POTUS on account of raping his wife after his scalp reduction by her recommended plastic surgeon went awry and pimping out his sons to a celebrity child molester alone.

If he can manage Operation Persian Freedom, he'll really live up to his potential for damage, and @Joshua Conner Moon can safely put all the blame on John Bolton like a ChiCom partisan blaming the Cultural Revolution on the Gang of Four while ignoring Mao.


----------



## AnOminous (Jun 13, 2019)

Truthspeaker said:


> If he can manage Operation Persian Freedom, he'll really live up to his potential for damage, and @Joshua Conner Moon can safely put all the blame on John Bolton like a ChiCom partisan blaming the Cultural Revolution on the Gang of Four while ignoring Mao.



So far just not starting any completely pointless wars has him ahead of even Dubya and not in the running.  Having that walrus mustached neocon nutjob Bolton aboard does make that little win streak precarious, though.


----------



## mindlessobserver (Jun 13, 2019)

Unless some other president leads us into a civil war it will always be Buchanon in the number 1 spot. The argument for second worst president is more complicated since there are many contenders for that


----------



## AF 802 (Jun 13, 2019)

Obama.

His refugee thing was what put us on the road for humor and free speech to become "morally criminal".


----------



## REGENDarySumanai (Jun 13, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> Unless some other president leads us into a civil war it will always be Buchanon in the number 1 spot. The argument for second worst president is more complicated since there are many contenders for that


I always have Buchanan last and Harding second to last.


----------



## GethN7 (Jun 13, 2019)

mindlessobserver said:


> Unless some other president leads us into a civil war it will always be Buchanon in the number 1 spot. The argument for second worst president is more complicated since there are many contenders for that



Martin Van Buren wasn't as BAD as Buchanan, but a lot of the shit he pulled was like a dry run of Buchanan, let's cover some highlights.

1. Panic of 1837 was basically the Panic of 1857 1.0, and both Van Buren and Buchanan had the same reaction: Do as little as possible save restrict the money supply, even though it only made things worse.

2. The Amistad Case was Dred Scot 1.0. Van Buren took the same position as Buchanan, which was that blacks had no rights if they were called slaves. Former President John Quincy Adams argued successfully in their defense because the circumstances behind the whole affair were pretty bullshit. Van Buren continued to maintain his former position, basically only further putting off the racial tensions that exploded in Buchanan's face, but Van Buren was one of the guys whose attempt to pass the buck just caused the problem to fester.

3. Van Buren's key economic idea was to take federal money and put it in government vaults to remove it from being a political issue, to prevent it from becoming a problem like it was in Jackson's tenure. It achieved fuck all, only made the problems in the first point worse, and the original legislation was of dubious legality to begin with.

Buchanan, then still in Congress, was all for it.

4. He held off on accepting an annexation of Texas for one reason alone: He was trying to put off having to deal with a shitshow over the whole slaves states versus free states question, but he otherwise would have been happy to do so. He essentially just postponed the crap that required the Compromise of 1850 to fix by a few years and made it so when James K. Polk finally did annex Texas, the racial tensions had grown to the point the slave state versus free state tard rage was even worse, and that just led to Buchanan making a further hash of things later.

5. Jackson gets the blame for the Indian Removal Act, but Van Buren merely finished what Jackson started and just dug more scar tissue into the issue between Indians and Americans.

Buchanan would make a similar mistake with the handling of the Kansas Territory, making a bad situation worse.


----------



## AnOminous (Jun 13, 2019)

I never realized Martin van Buren actually was that bad because most people have not even thought of Martin van Buren at all in years.  I've read most of those things before and just glazed over and half-forgotten them.

He was really bad though, wasn't he?


----------



## Damn Near (Jun 13, 2019)

Grant, the drunk idiot


----------



## GethN7 (Jun 13, 2019)

Damn Near said:


> Grant, the drunk idiot



Grant was half naive, half out of his depth to be honest.

The naivety came from trusting a lot of people he shouldn't have,and while he was personally honest, he trusted some real assholes because they were personally congenial to him.

Warren Harding made the same mistake, and most of Harding's bad reputation is unfairly given him like Grant got his, as they were personally honest, it's just some of their friends were shitheels and they discovered that too late.

The other half is all on him though.

His foreign policy was pretty bullheaded, including an abortive attempt to acquire Cuba he had a problem letting die even though Congress was never gonna go for it. He also had a serious feud with Charles Sumner, who Grant considered a crank, and while Sumner was a hardheaded jackass, Grant's responses were little better, and given Sumner's foreign relations clout, this just made foreign diplomacy harder.

Grant also was a political virgin, and while he admitted he was new to politics, he did a poor job making up for that until long into his second term, and by then he was pretty soured on the idea of a third.

His domestic policy was somewhat better, though Reconstruction was a political zombie he only kept alive because, to his credit, he was fighting hard to prevent the era of Jim Crow that arose after it ended. His economic policies were uneven, and while he was wise enough not to screw up the money supply too badly, he handled the Panic of 1873 rather poorly and it was thanks to his being asleep at the wheel the federal gold supply used to decide the value of currency went out of whack and became the harbinger of gold and silver battles later in the century.


----------



## AnOminous (Jun 13, 2019)

GethN7 said:


> Grant also was a political virgin, and while he admitted he was new to politics, he did a poor job making up for that until long into his second term, and by then he was pretty soured on the idea of a third.



If he had done a third he would have been the cause of that amendment limiting it to two instead of FDR.

Which might have been a good thing.


----------



## ProgKing of the North (Jun 13, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> I never realized Martin van Buren actually was that bad because most people have not even thought of Martin van Buren at all in years.  I've read most of those things before and just glazed over and half-forgotten them.
> 
> He was really bad though, wasn't he?


Only President not to be in any way descended from Brits. What does that tell us? 

I mean, other than the fact that I'm an autist who enjoys useless presidential trivia


----------



## AnOminous (Jun 13, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> Only President not to be in any way descended from Brits. What does that tell us?
> 
> I mean, other than the fact that I'm an autist who enjoys useless presidential trivia



I always just interpreted it as if a President has a weird middle name, and it isn't really a name, but it for some reason isn't capitalized, that motherfucker can't be trusted.

Is there no way to make a sed script or something to filter out potential bad Presidents?


----------



## Rip_In_Pepperino (Jun 14, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> Only President not to be in any way descended from Brits. What does that tell us?
> 
> I mean, other than the fact that I'm an autist who enjoys useless presidential trivia


not part of the #YangGang I see


----------



## Truthspeaker (Jun 15, 2019)

AnOminous said:


> So far just not starting any completely pointless wars has him ahead of even Dubya and not in the running.  Having that walrus mustached neocon nutjob Bolton aboard does make that little win streak precarious, though.


As if nothing of his own personality contributes whatsoever?

The only counter to The Dipshit's instictive love of thuggery is the constant dysfunction of himself and everything around him. But he'll do whatever he thinks'll get his campaign real money from Sheldon Adelson, and there's still well over a year for him to do it.


----------



## Notgoodwithusernames (Jun 25, 2019)

William Henry Harrison... the only thing worse than doing something is nothing


----------



## kadoink (Jun 25, 2019)

Notgoodwithusernames said:


> William Henry Harrison... the only thing worse than doing something is nothing



He died in 30 days!


----------



## PL 001 (Jun 25, 2019)

Le DRUMPF!!!! Occupy Democrats on Facebook said so, and they wouldn't lie to me! Plus he's orange! Like a Cheeto! Only basement dwellers like Cheetos! Coincidence? I think nawt! 

Seriously though, Herbert Hoover.


----------



## GethN7 (Jun 25, 2019)

WinterMoonsLight said:


> Le DRUMPF!!!! Occupy Democrats on Facebook said so, and they wouldn't lie to me! Plus he's orange! Like a Cheeto! Only basement dwellers like Cheetos! Coincidence? I think nawt!
> 
> Seriously though, Herbert Hoover.



I think Hoover gets a partially bad rap, but only partially, a lot of his screwups are his own.


Where Hoover gets shit on unfairly is how he tried to deal with the market crash. Prior presidents went through financial crashes, and to his credit he simply tried to do what they did to ride it out, and eventually, the former panics sorted themselves due to economic dust settling, or so the established theory went.

What Hoover did not realize is that the economy wasn't just bad because stocks fell and banks collapsed, it had all sorts of issues that had been gestating since the end of WWI that his predecessors had been holding off or patching up the worst parts (the farming sector was patched up temporarily by Harding, but it was a patch, not a fix for their outstanding ills), and Coolidge had, on the advice of Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon, kept the reins on business loose, allowing them to cover up their over-extension of loans with more loans, which worked short-term but meant Hoover had to deal with the fallout when the bubble burst.

The international side also made things worse. The US had become a major creditor nation since WWI, and when other nations had economic issues, they cut off payments to the US for WWI debts, which had been keeping many of the worst flaws of the credit system tamped down due to the money they infused into the economy. Worse, some idiots in Congress approved HIGHER tariffs during this period, which scared away even more foreign money.

Hoover also, to his credit, told Mellon fuck off with his advice to liquidate all the failing economy and start over, that would have left less economic structure to repair and rebuild, and even Hoover was wise enough to realize he needed something to fix instead of trying to wish the problem away.


The rest of Hoover's problems, though, that's on him.

Even though it became quickly apparent riding out the problems wasn't working, Hoover was afraid of experimenting with government relief and jobs programs partially because it was an unprecedented idea (until FDR made it popular), and dumping money into a failing economy was again unprecedented due to potential for inflation, which was not understood until FDR tried it to be less bad than a terminally ill economic base.

The other half is that Hoover was of the "you need to help yourself" school of thought, he thought government assistance would degrade the nation into a nation of beggars depending on government handouts.

It was thanks to not budging on either these issues his problems cascaded until he lost to FDR in 1932.


----------



## BrunoMattei (Jun 25, 2019)

Nixon. It's fucking Nixon.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Jun 25, 2019)

As a history sperg, I have several answers to this question.

We've had a lot of bad presidents in our history, but the worst ones are defined by how they impacted their era and how it affected the next era. For simplicity's sake, I'm going to use major wars and conflicts as benchmarks for each era.

Antebellum Era: James Buchanan, with Martin Van Buren in a very close second

Post-Civil War: Andrew Johnson

Post-World War I: Woodrow Wilson for foreign policies, Warren G. Harding for domestic policies

Post-World War II: Jimmy Carter, simply because of how ineffective he was, although he at least tried his best

Post-Cold War: George W. Bush, with Barack Obama in a very close second.


Obama's main issues in terms of hard policy was that he was mostly a direct continuation of the same Bush policies but with a thin progressive veneer that only served to divide the country. 

He expanded the post-9/11 surveillance state, greatly exacerbated The War On Terror, continued the bailouts of Bush, and was in many ways, the ultimate false hope. 

I still think Bush was objectively worse in terms of actual policies and events in his presidency, but Obama did nothing to solve the issues of Bush and didn't even deliver on the promises he actually made like closing down Gitmo. 

Because Obama continued the same policies of Bush while also spouting progressive rhetoric that only seemed to divide the country further, particularly in his second term, it was honestly a toss-up between Bush and Obama for the worst of the post-Cold War presidents. 

I went with Bush because Obama probably would not have fucked up as bad he did had it not been for Bush setting the stage. 

As much as 2000's leftists loved to compare Bush to Hitler, Bush actually was a pretty shitty leader and the only reason why Bush Derangement Syndrome never got as bad as TDS is because 9/11 happened early in his first term and it cast a long shadow over criticism of the administration.

I'm not going to comment on Trump as a president until he's no longer in office, whether that be in 2021 or 2025, but so far most of our post-Cold War presidencies were awful. Bill Clinton is the best of the lot, and that says it all right there.

Clinton was shifty and corrupt in his own ways, and he made some major mistakes such as NAFTA and repealing the Glass-Steagall legislation. But Clinton had charisma and oversaw the largest economic boom post-WWII and didn't get America into any military quagmires like Bush nor ignite culture war bullshit like Obama.


----------



## Poiseon (Jun 27, 2019)

Woodrow Wilson. His cancerous bullshit ranging from his racial stances (Which led to the racial segregation of the federal government, and garnered support for Jim Crow.) to his purposeful revision of history regarding the Civil War, and his absolutely evil foreign policy. Wilsonian interventionism is the most damaging ideology in US history, and is responsible for all the dumb proxy wars we've been in. He also delayed our entry into World War 1, which some historians believe may have led directly to the total economic collapse of Europe, and the second World War.

He also invaded Russia, by the way. Not many know this, I wasn't taught it in school, only found out last year. Americans have died fighting on Russian soil, It was a total failure and didn't stop the rise of the Red Army. Wilson is a total fuck up in every regard.


----------



## Shadfan666xxx000 (Jun 27, 2019)

Poiseon said:


> Woodrow Wilson. His cancerous bullshit ranging from his racial stances (Which led to the racial segregation of the federal government, and garnered support for Jim Crow.) to his purposeful revision of history regarding the Civil War, and his absolutely evil foreign policy. Wilsonian interventionism is the most damaging ideology in US history, and is responsible for all the dumb proxy wars we've been in. He also delayed our entry into World War 1, which some historians believe may have led directly to the total economic collapse of Europe, and the second World War.
> 
> He also invaded Russia, by the way. Not many know this, I wasn't taught it in school, only found out last year. Americans have died fighting on Russian soil, It was a total failure and didn't stop the rise of the Red Army. Wilson is a total fuck up in every regard.


Tbh, a lot of guys were complete fuckups in that generation of statecraft and there were something like all the other entente nations involved in Russia back then, not just the USA.


----------



## GethN7 (Jun 27, 2019)

Poiseon said:


> Woodrow Wilson. His cancerous bullshit ranging from his racial stances (Which led to the racial segregation of the federal government, and garnered support for Jim Crow.) to his purposeful revision of history regarding the Civil War, and his absolutely evil foreign policy. Wilsonian interventionism is the most damaging ideology in US history, and is responsible for all the dumb proxy wars we've been in. He also delayed our entry into World War 1, which some historians believe may have led directly to the total economic collapse of Europe, and the second World War.
> 
> He also invaded Russia, by the way. Not many know this, I wasn't taught it in school, only found out last year. Americans have died fighting on Russian soil, It was a total failure and didn't stop the rise of the Red Army. Wilson is a total fuck up in every regard.



Wilson was a case of bad outweighing good.

While he did, to his credit, have some good ideas for improving labor and industry, like his anti-trust legislation (the Federal Trade Commission was his brainchild), and he created the Federal Reserve (generally a sane idea, though YMMV on the long-term implications). He even forced through an eight-hour workday for certain high-risk industries, which finally put an end to many strikes that had paralyzed the railroad industry.

The rest was just bad.

While rejecting Taft's foreign policy involving supporting foreign countries to prop up US business holdings there, he tried to be the Jimmy Carter of his day, only he was more arrogant and less naive about, which led to bumbling clusterfuck in South America and Mexico.

In partial fairness to Wilson, he could NOT have gotten a declaration of war against Germany until he did, the US was strongly against intervening unless he had naked proof of aggression against the US, and it was the Zimmerman telegram that British intelligence decoded and presented him as proof Germany was trying to convince Mexico to shank the US in the back that finally did the trick. Prior, Wilson did have the good sense to build up US army and naval forces as much as possible so entry into WWI was rather painless by comparison.

WWI itself was mostly Wilson fucking up the end than making a hash of the war itself, and the League of Nations that Wilson tried to crowbar through Congress and his spending way too much time away from his job screwed up his health and rendered him invalid of a stroke, to the point it's still arguable he was unable to discharge his duties during the last six months of his presidency. The actual ideas were naive as hell and ignored contemporary reality, but Wilson had huffed far too many of his own farts by that point to be told no.

His bigotry was just the cherry on top of the bad.


----------



## OB 946 (Jul 1, 2019)

Varisi na Vienea Cadence said:


> Andrew Jackson was the closest thing Americans had to a tyrant


Wrong, dipshit. John Q Adams with his Alien and Sedition Acts. 

Literally making wrong opinions illegal.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Jul 1, 2019)

All after the Articles of Confederation was abolished.


----------



## GethN7 (Jul 1, 2019)

Crippled Eagle said:


> Wrong, dipshit. John Q Adams with his Alien and Sedition Acts.
> 
> Literally making wrong opinions illegal.



Bit of irony in that.

The idea gestated under George Washington, but only matured to being signed into law under Adams.

Ironically, Abigal Adams was more for it than her husband, and while he signed it, he was pretty unenthusiastic about its enforcement. Not one person was ever actually deported for subversive activities (warrants were signed for a few but never acted on).

The laws themselves died by the time Jefferson took office due to lack of enthusiasm for renewing their enforcement, and honestly, Jefferson planted the seeds for something far more dangerous than a prototype Patriot Act.

He was the original "states have the right to nullify federal laws they disagreed with" man.

He's the idiot who gave birth to what kicked off the Civil War.

The Alien and Sedition Acts were repressive for sure, but they did far less long term damage and died of legal apathy, while that crap Jefferson invented (ironically to oppose the former) turned into a ticking time bomb only four years of civil war put to bed.


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## OB 946 (Jul 1, 2019)

GethN7 said:


> Bit of irony in that.
> 
> The idea gestated under George Washington, but only matured to being signed into law under Adams.
> 
> ...



States should absolutely be allowed to nullify retarded laws.


----------



## GethN7 (Jul 1, 2019)

Crippled Eagle said:


> States should absolutely be allowed to nullify exceptional laws.



Abe Lincoln addressed that one when he pointed out the states willfully ceded their authority of laws affecting all states to the federal government. If they did not do so, there was no point to the federal government, and since they all agreed to it not once but twice, with the Articles replaced by the Constitution to form a MORE perfect union, and even under the Articles federal authority trumped the States (in theory at least) in a matter of common consensus over federal jurisdiction, like the defense of all states against a common foe.

And the Civil War put an end to the debate on whether states could decide to up and leave without the consent of Congress, or even if they could ignore federal laws they didn't like.

The answer was, and remains, lol no. You don't like a federal law, then there are lawful ways to overturn it, but arbitrary defiance is not one of them.


----------



## OB 946 (Jul 1, 2019)

GethN7 said:


> Abe Lincoln addressed that one when he pointed out the states willfully ceded their authority of laws affecting all states to the federal government. If they did not do so, there was no point to the federal government, and since they all agreed to it not once but twice, with the Articles replaced by the Constitution to form a MORE perfect union, and even under the Articles federal authority trumped the States (in theory at least) in a matter of common consensus over federal jurisdiction, like the defense of all states against a common foe.
> 
> And the Civil War put an end to the debate on whether states could decide to up and leave without the consent of Congress, or even if they could ignore federal laws they didn't like.
> 
> The answer was, and remains, lol no. You don't like a federal law, then there are lawful ways to overturn it, but arbitrary defiance is not one of them.



See, you are arguing law. I'm not. We are on the verge of having people running the country that don't believe in the first or second amendments. Republicanism is okay for a while. Rome did it okay for a while, so did we. We had a good run, but we need to do something else. 

Benevolent dictatorship is obviously the best form of government, but since we have yet to perfect a way to insure that the successors to the benevolent dictator are also benevolent, and we haven't cloned Mattis so he can rule in perpetuity, we should go with the second best option, which is the total destruction of the current system and replacing it with free association between people.


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## Cedric_Eff (Jul 2, 2019)

By none, Gerald R. Ford was the worst president:


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## Exigent Circumcisions (Jul 2, 2019)

Hillary Clinton. 

It was her turn, damn it!


----------



## Syaoran Li (Jul 2, 2019)

Cedric_Eff said:


> By none, Gerald R. Ford was the worst president:




I dunno, Ford was sort of lousy but we've had a LOT of bad presidents in our history.

Guys like Martin Van Buren, John Tyler, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Warren G. Harding, George W, Bush, and Barack Obama just to name a few.

I mean, when you have guys like Dubya and Andrew Johnson on the roster, even a guy like Gerald Ford looks semi-decent by comparison.


----------



## Cedric_Eff (Jul 2, 2019)

Syaoran Li said:


> I dunno, Ford was sort of lousy but we've had a LOT of bad presidents in our history.
> 
> Guys like Martin Van Buren, John Tyler, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Warren G. Harding, George W, Bush, and Barack Obama just to name a few.
> 
> I mean, when you have guys like Dubya and Andrew Johnson on the roster, even a guy like Gerald Ford looks decent by comparison.


East Timor.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Jul 2, 2019)

Cedric_Eff said:


> East Timor.



I'll admit, Ford fucked up big time on that one. I forgot about that one. So yeah, he's probably tied with Carter for worst president of the post-World War II era. 

If anything, he probably was worse than Carter since Carter was well-intentioned but way in over his head.


----------



## Feline Supremacist (Jul 2, 2019)

Crippled Eagle said:


> States should absolutely be allowed to nullify exceptional laws.


I wholeheartedly agree in theory and principle but actual implementation would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Right now in NYS and Cali there are several laws that outright deprive law-abiding citizens of their 2A rights because Democrats say guns are bad-and they get away with it for now. Imagine what it would be like if El Jefe Newsom declared the Bill of Rights null and void in California and Commissar Cuomo sent his vanguard of the proletariat to confiscate weapons in upstate NY (not that they would hesitate if they could get away with it mind you).


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## ProgKing of the North (Jul 2, 2019)

States should be allowed to legalize what’s illegal federally but not illegalize what’s legal federally


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## Marco Fucko (Jul 2, 2019)

Washington was the worst President because he turned down an opportunity to be king and give us a dynasty of chads.


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## GethN7 (Jul 2, 2019)

Marco Fucko said:


> Washington was the worst President because he turned down an opportunity to be king and give us a dynasty of chads.



He was smart, actually. He had no heirs, and there were multiple times people asked him to even consider the idea and he told them in no uncertain terms to fuck off. He fought a war because he was incensed at one telling him to do stupid shit, he did not want to become what he fought.

Seriously, it cannot be stated enough the idea of being king pissed him off royally, pardon the pun.

When George III heard that Washington VOLUNTARILY stepped down after only two terms as president, even he saluted the man for sticking by his guns on relinquishing power of his own will when he could run for a third time and won easily.

In fact, he's the ONLY reason no one seriously opposed him for both his terms. Even at his most incompetent, they knew he would never want to be a king and would immediately feel guilty for trying to act like one if he was ever called on it. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson both were loyal to him despite their polar opposite political views because they knew Washington's refusal to be king was that ironclad. He even stated that the Constitution would have to be the official line of his conduct, and every time he was remotely scared of doing something beyond it's power, he immediately asked if he had the right he was seeking, even if it was something minor like moving Congress to meet elsewhere than their normal building in the event of natural disaster or disease outbreak.

George did some dumb shit at times, but refusal to be a king was one reason why his presidency was the least fucked up legacy in that role as compared to basically all his successors.


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## Vitoze (Jul 2, 2019)

All of em because voting is rad fucking gay.

I only vote because I'm religiously obligated.  I'd rather die of aids.


----------



## 5t3n0g0ph3r (Jul 4, 2019)

James Buchanan.
Why?
*"Sir, if you are as happy in entering the White House as I shall feel on returning to Wheatland, you are a happy man indeed."*
He said this to Abraham  Lincoln on Lincoln's inauguration.
Translation:
"I am happy to leave you this mess that happened under my watch. Have fun!"
What an ass!


----------



## TrippinKahlua (Jul 4, 2019)

Overall, the worst was probably Franklin Pierce.


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## GethN7 (Jul 8, 2019)

Interestingly, while John Adams got shat on pretty hard during his day for doing a mediocre job, and while even some later historians concurred he was below average at best, I would argue he was at least decent if nothing else, but an examination of his major presidential decisions should explain why history has taken such a gigantic shit on him:

1. Adams was a strongly moralistic man who despised political patronage as something he didn't like to deal with, and while George Washington got away with doing so largely because no one was gonna give George any serious bitching about his choices (most of them were both friends to him and competent at their jobs, which muted a lot of the potential complaints), Adams was very unsubtle about such dislike (while George at least had the tact to not be an ass about), which dripped poison on the rest of his presidency since day one.

2. The XYZ affair (where France tried to extort the US) briefly made him look good because he showed strong offense to the French extortion, but the fact he tried to avoid war made him pretty unpopular even though he had the brains to realize the US was still not ready for one, and his efforts to keep peace even after the diplomaic insult got shit on as a result.

3. The Alien and Sedition Acts were and remain the biggest black mark of his career, but some things go unsaid that should make it less terrible. It had originated under Washington's tenure (and Washington had actually supported the initial draftings), all Adams did was sign the final version, especially since he knew a veto would be defeated if he tried, He also took no special pains to enforce the acts and even avoided doing so because even he regarded them as politically extreme.

4. The Quasi-War, an undeclared naval war between American and French ships that was a spinoff of the XYZ affair, it's this that Adams gets sold short on. He got his legs cut out from under him by the Federalists from day one because he wanted bipartisan support and the Federalists were a bunch of war happy faggots even he was annoyed with, and he went out of his way to stymie their efforts to turn the Quasi-War into a real one, and they hated his ass for it.

As a result, when it flamed out pretty fast after starting and France was willing to play nice again (partially because he decided to beef up the American naval forces, an idea he gets little credit for), he got all sorts of shit for trying to settle things with France as quickly and painlessly as possible, and Alexander Hamilton especially went out of his way to be an asshat because Adams told him to chill and quit trying to start a war anyway.

5. The Fries Rebellion: In a smaller replay of the Whiskey Rebellion, a German farmer named John Fries started some shit over a property tax Adams instituted, and even though Fries surrendered peacefully when Hamilton led a military force to quell the disturbance, Federalists wanted Adams to hang the man, even though Fries had legally not been half as batshit as they claimed he was, and Adams chose to follow his conscience and pardon the man.

It was a good idea, actually, but this just finalized efforts to screw over his re-election attempts, and Hamilton just made sure Adams would lose by allying with his ideological rival Jefferson to ensure it.

tl;dr: Adams was, at worst, competent, but his own party hated him and worked to fuck him over at every turn, so he got treated like shit even when he did a decent job.


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## Chichan (Jul 8, 2019)

REGENDarySumanai said:


> A man so goddamn fat that he got stuck in the bath tub. He's also the only President to become a Supreme Court justice.


They made him a special bathtub.


Honestly I would totally use that although I would be afraid I would get trapped because of my small stature.
Worst president William Henry Harrison because he died in office within 31 days to be exact.
Also the republican's darling Regan if he hadn't given the mexicans amnesty we would not have some of the problems we have now. Nigger should of built a wall.


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## Scarlett Johansson (Jul 8, 2019)

Buchanan. 

Lincoln wasn't bad because he could probably pick you up and throw you over to the next county. 

Who was the one who had the toilet cabinet meetings?


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## Syaoran Li (Jul 8, 2019)

jellycar said:


> Buchanan.
> 
> Lincoln wasn't bad because he could probably pick you up and throw you over to the next county.
> 
> Who was the one who had the toilet cabinet meetings?



Lyndon Johnson had toilet cabinet meetings.

LBJ is the definition of a mixed bag.

His domestic policies were actually good and were very well-intended and he was the one who ended Jim Crow on a federal level. But his foreign policies and the way he handled Vietnam was downright awful.

Nixon is another mixed bag president who often gets portrayed as a bad president solely because of Watergate.

Nixon did have good policies such as the EPA, the Clean Air and Clean Water Act, his reforms for Native American communities (to the point that Nixon is actually beloved on the Rez) and he was a master of foreign policy who probably did more than any other president to actually win the Cold War by getting China to join our side, capitalizing on factors like the Sino-Soviet split and Mao's declining health and influence.

Nixon's detente policies also helped the Cold War end peacefully and on our side, even if the detente was pretty much over by the time Reagan got into the picture.

However, there were also downsides to the Nixon Administration aside from Watergate. He created the DEA and started the War on Drugs.

Granted, during the 70's, the War on Drugs was a "cold war" and Reagan turned it into a "hot war" which is when it all started falling apart.

Richard Nixon may have been a horrible human being, but he was one of our better presidents in terms of hard policy


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## GethN7 (Jul 9, 2019)

A curious note that should be discussed concerning two presidents, one of which (Andrew Jackson) is usually considered to be the worst President by some.

One thing that always served as a black mark for elected officials even in the South was a background as a slave trader. While holding and owning slaves was not terribly unusual, slave trading was consider disreputable because while the slave owners could whitewash a lot of the more disagreeable aspects of that end of slave culture, slave trading is exactly what it sounds like, trafficking in human flesh.

Only Andrew Jackson and Zachary Taylor were ever seriously implicated with this politically, but both escaped the negative press in different ways.

Jackson's military and political acumen prior to becoming President pretty much buried most of the controversy, even though he did at one point engage in being a professional merchant, and his stock of goods included slaves (he was a generalized merchant, he sold a bit of everything). Taylor was a major slave owner and thus engaged in heavy slave trading as a consequence, but his lack of enthusiasm for expanding the plantation economy in the Midwest (for reasons of economic practicality) and distaste for secession muted the hackles he otherwise would have gotten had he been more in favor of those positions prior to being elected.

Basically, he escaped controversy by being, by the standards of the day, a political moderate. Jackson was also rather moderate by the standards of his day, but that was because slavery was not as much of a hot button topic at the time of his election, so this was a non-factor for him.


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