# Pirating media/software



## Pikonic (Jun 28, 2014)

We got a little off topic in discussion again.
I put the three most common ideas in the poll. The title and the poll speak for themselves.

Personally I don't care for pirating media. I believe pirating music over the years has caused an increase in concert ticket sales so the artists can still make their money. I personally think if you make something I want, I should have to give you something in return, usually money.
Thoughts?


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

It's merely factual (or close to it) that pirating is not stealing. When you steal, you're taking a specific item from someone and depriving that person of _that_ _item_.

I see copyright as a benefit granted by the government, which is useful. Like corn subsidies. (Or, well, it was more useful when it was easier to enforce.)



Pikonic said:


> I personally think if you make something I want, I should have to give you something in return, usually money.
> Thoughts?


There are street performers and stuff like that. They don't act like they're entitled to money, they hope to earn some money from you. That's the big thing for me, entitlement.

Creators need to convince me I'm getting something out of my money for me to hand it over. That's why I might go to concerts, I enjoy the IRL atmosphere. But just recordings, broadcast to the masses? Eh... not really worth my money.


----------



## spaps (Jun 28, 2014)

I'm okay with pirating from big companies like Ubisoft and EA, but I feel like I get more satisfaction out of something when I actually buy it with money. Even if what I'm pirating is shit, I still want to feel like I own it, I guess.


----------



## fuzzypickles (Jun 28, 2014)

I've pirated video games in the past, and I have no qualms with it provided that the game is out of print or hard to obtain legally due to rarity, price and other factors that determine how accessible the game is. For instance, I've pirated old games that were 20-30 years old to my computer because getting the original discs or arcade cabinets would be expensive and impractical.


----------



## KatsuKitty (Jun 28, 2014)

Piracy shares much in common with speeding. I'm not saying it's right to do or it should be legal, but we've _all done it_ and the penalties range from nothing to a slap on the wrist so we're just gonna keep doing it.


----------



## José Mourinho (Jun 28, 2014)

I only pirate games from far bigger developers (who are notorious for being greedy such as EA) but I support the small companies.


----------



## Uzumaki (Jun 28, 2014)

If big companies are going to use their financial weight to buy out democracy and impose their twisted retrograde version of copyright laws on the rest of us, then, in my opinion, we cease to have a moral duty to obey those laws.

All human endeavor is built on the work of those who came before. Permanent ownership of ideas by companies is a fucking joke, it's stifling our culture, and you can shriek and shriek at me all you want but I'm never going to feel a moral imperative to obey laws that are literally hurting our collective culture for the benefit of a few Disney shareholders. Forgive me if I've become a _complete anarchist_ but that's my stance.

And you're fooling yourself if you think paying for things is helping the people who made them. The vast majority of that money is going to middle men, whose jobs are to make their jobs necessary.


----------



## A-Stump (Jun 28, 2014)

Alan Pardew said:


> I only pirate games from far bigger developers (who are notorious for being greedy such as EA) but I support the small companies.



Exactly. There's totally a difference.


----------



## guau (Jun 28, 2014)

I download music from artists at major labels who don't really need my money (eg. Beyonce) and artists I don't want to support because of their shitty attitude like They Who Must Not Be Named. But yeah, I buy from bands in small time labels as they have difficulty touring/selling merch.


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> If big companies are going to use their financial weight to buy out democracy and impose their twisted retrograde version of copyright laws on the rest of us, then, in my opinion, we cease to have a moral duty to obey those laws.
> 
> All human endeavor is built on the work of those who came before. Permanent ownership of ideas by companies is a fucking joke, it's stifling our culture, and you can shriek and shriek at me all you want but I'm never going to feel a moral imperative to obey laws that are literally hurting our collective culture for the benefit of a few Disney shareholders. Forgive me if I've become a _complete anarchist_ but that's my stance.
> 
> And you're fooling yourself if you think paying for things is helping the people who made them. The vast majority of that money is going to middle men, whose jobs are to make their jobs necessary.


You're right, but it doesn't even get to that level of seriousness for me. For me, copyright doesn't matter if you can't enforce it.

I'm reminded of prohibition. They couldn't enforce it and it fell apart. (I'm sure it was a lot more complicated than that, of course, but enforcement played a part.)

Heh, it's like a baker making delicious smelling bread (I bike regularly by a big bakery and it smells awesome) and getting cranky at bums enjoying his smells for free. He'd run out with a wooden spoon, "hey you mooches, buy my bread instead of stealing my smells! "


----------



## theobservdr (Jun 28, 2014)

Yea , I do have mixed opinions on it, on one end software is expensive, and who knows how many legit copies vs pirated copies of windows are out there.

As for movies I'll buy, my friends father works as a cinematographer, and knows David Lynch ( he did the camera work on Eraser Head), and did the bad Incredible Hulk movie my friend asked him about it, and he didn't even like it, but anyways regardless of whichever movie I buy it actually goes towards his pension, and he gets screener copies of movies before they are released for the Academy Awards, and a big release movie actually has to have someone at home to sign for it. But I watched Skyfall before it was even released on DVD. The only drawback is he gets so many movies to watch in the last few weeks that he doesn't even have time to watch them all.


----------



## Cute Anime Girl (Jun 28, 2014)

It's stupid to call pirating 'stealing'. It's the same as someone making a copy of your car and driving off with it. Nothing has changed with your car, was it really stealing?

Also movie/vidya industry makes enough money as is.


----------



## CalmMyTits (Jun 28, 2014)

I have been and still am a victim of pirating. I wrote several books and released them last year. (self-published) and I have had to file DMCA's at least a dozen times over the last year because of assholes who think they shouldn't have to pay for my books. I try to make my books reasonably priced and the electronic versions of my books are only a third of what the paperback versions cost because there is no overhead for paper, ink, shipping, etc so I tried to be fair with the prices. But assholes still think they can just rip my books and distribute for free despite my asking to please do not do so, within the copyright information in my books. So as a person who has been personally victimized by pirating, I can't say I am in favor of it, especially if you're a small-time person (author/artist/musician/etc) because I don't make anywhere near enough money off my books to quit my day job or anything lofty like that. I worked very hard on my books to make them the best they can possibly be and it really hurts me when I see my work on a free download site.


----------



## Dee (Jun 28, 2014)

CalmMyTits said:


> I have been and still am a victim of pirating. I wrote several books and released them last year. (self-published) and I have had to file DMCA's at least a dozen times over the last year because of assholes who think they shouldn't have to pay for my books. I try to make my books reasonably priced and the electronic versions of my books are only a third of what the paperback versions cost because there is no overhead for paper, ink, shipping, etc so I tried to be fair with the prices. But assholes still think they can just rip my books and distribute for free despite my asking to please do not do so, within the copyright information in my books. So as a person who has been personally victimized by pirating, I can't say I am in favor of it, especially if you're a small-time person (author/artist/musician/etc) because I don't make anywhere near enough money off my books to quit my day job or anything lofty like that. I worked very hard on my books to make them the best they can possibly be and it really hurts me when I see my work on a free download site.


I'm very sorry to hear about this! Pirating affects small timers more than large companies but I disagree with all forms of pirating.


----------



## CalmMyTits (Jun 28, 2014)

fuzzypickles said:


> I've pirated video games in the past, and I have no qualms with it provided that the game is out of print or hard to obtain legally due to rarity, price and other factors that determine how accessible the game is. For instance, I've pirated old games that were 20-30 years old to my computer because getting the original discs or arcade cabinets would be expensive and impractical.



I do make an exception for this though. Like Nintendo games, it's near impossible to find a working system, or working cartridges, so I personally don't see any issue with having/downloading ROMs and emulators of old-school games like Arari, NES, SNES, etc. New games like DS and stuff, no. However in 20 years or whenever DS and other current platforms become obsolete, then I would be okay with these becoming ROMs and emulators. From what I understand, Nintendo has basically abandoned its old systems and doesn't care if you have ROMS and emulators of games from that platform since they're making their money off their current ventures like Wii, DS, et al.

I'm also ok with sharing books and music by people who are already dead. Amazon has lots of free e-book versions of classics, and only charge for the paperback version (because of overhead) In this case, no one is being hurt by this because the creators are dead. Same with old movies like the Wizard of Oz or Gone with the Wind. All actors, producers, anyone involved in these movies are long dead and sharing them online doesn't cost anything, though I would be opposed to stealing an actual physical copy of said media from a brick and mortar store.


----------



## Some JERK (Jun 28, 2014)

Spoiler: Me sperging about shit I probably know nothing about.



The internet has been the biggest game changer since intellectual property rights were established.  There's simply no way to completely stop it, because you can't legislate the actions of people offshore. So even if you completely eradicated piracy that originates in one country, it's still going to happen.

I'm not saying I know what the answer is. But I do know that it isn't going to come from harsher punishments for breaking existing rules. Hell, there are almost no punishments for DCMA infractions anyway. Have you ever gotten the infamous "hey, stop stealing shit" letter from your ISP? Do you know how many of those they'll send? Six. They will send you six warnings. After the sixth and final warning, do you know what happens?

...They stop sending you warnings. that's it. (which actually makes sense, If they're not prepared or able to level a punishment of any kind, then after 6 warnings and you're still doing it, they're just wasting paper.) Some ISPs do bandwidth throttling i think, but not all of them. ISPs aren't in the law enforcement business, and they really don't give two shits what you do with your bandwidth as long as you pay for it.

All they can really do (and they are) is crack down on the sources of pirated products (torrent sites, etc.) but those are like weeds. You get rid of one, and another pops up to fill the vacuum created by its loss. One of the major problems is that bureaucracies simply can not keep pace with the internet. It takes months if not years to fight a piracy case in court, and even if you win, there will be another site just like it on the internet the very next day. That's a war of attrition that you will simply never win.


----------



## Le Bateleur (Jun 28, 2014)

I have a complex relationship with piracy, but there is one thing I categorically don't understand about the anti-piracy side's arguments. You hear claims like "piracy costs the economy £X billion every year." How? If people get music for free, they spend their money on other stuff. The total amount they spend doesn't change. Sure, the entertainment industry doesn't get £X billion, but maybe the alcohol industry gets an extra £X/4 billion, and the clothes industry gets an extra £X/2 billion, etc. In fact, in countries where a lot of music and film is imported, piracy probably actually keeps money in the country. Or have I missed something?


----------



## Thelostcup (Jun 28, 2014)

Many Indie devs / artists actually like it when people pirate their stuff.  It means they liked it enough to still want it.  Free advertising, basically.


----------



## Some JERK (Jun 28, 2014)

Thelostcup said:


> Many Indie devs / artists actually like it when people pirate their stuff.  It means they liked it enough to still want it.  Free advertising, basically.


I've gotten into bands or TV shows because I pirated their shit. I probably wouldn't have risked the $ on an unknown (to me) artist If i'd had to pay for the initial experience.


----------



## CalmMyTits (Jun 28, 2014)

Thelostcup said:


> Many Indie devs / artists actually like it when people pirate their stuff.  It means they liked it enough to still want it.  Free advertising, basically.



I can say in all honesty that I am NOT in this category of people, and I know other authors who don't buy that 'free advertising' bullshit.


----------



## Glaive (Jun 28, 2014)

I know the thread says "media", but if we extend this to cover software as well, how many of us have actually paid for things like Photoshop, Flash dev kit, Sony Vegas, or Illustrator?  

Betting not many.  Hell, sometimes even pirated versions of software end up functioning BETTER than the paid version. 
I've found cracked versions of Windows such as XP Black Edition that end up with significantly less bloatware and are already tweaked for optimal performance cutting out all the useless Microsoft processes.  

Proprietary software stipples advancement to the point where we have crackers making better game/software hotfixes and patches than the original devs themselves.  Pirate and proud.  

Also mandatory for this discussion: http://lazytorrents.ytmnd.com/


----------



## Some JERK (Jun 28, 2014)

CalmMyTits said:


> I have been and still am a victim of pirating. I wrote several books and released them last year. (self-published) and I have had to file DMCA's at least a dozen times over the last year because of assholes who think they shouldn't have to pay for my books. I try to make my books reasonably priced and the electronic versions of my books are only a third of what the paperback versions cost because there is no overhead for paper, ink, shipping, etc so I tried to be fair with the prices. But assholes still think they can just rip my books and distribute for free despite my asking to please do not do so, within the copyright information in my books. So as a person who has been personally victimized by pirating, I can't say I am in favor of it, especially if you're a small-time person (author/artist/musician/etc) because I don't make anywhere near enough money off my books to quit my day job or anything lofty like that. I worked very hard on my books to make them the best they can possibly be and it really hurts me when I see my work on a free download site.


The problem is that you can't stop it. Yes, you are totally in the right, but that doesn't change the reality. People are going to pirate your stuff if it's worth something. The only way you could reasonably curtail this is to never EVER release anything in digital format. (But then some asshole with a good OCR scanner will probably just do it for you at some point if there's a _serious_ interest in it.) Again, I'm not sure what the real answer is here, but I do know that the reason the assholes _think_ they can just rip your books and distribute them without your permission is because they actually _can._


----------



## A-№1 (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Creators need to convince me I'm getting something out of my money for me to hand it over.


I have no problem with paying creators.  It's middle men who have to convince me.  Because they are the ones who profit the most from copyright (and whine about it the most and fuck with it the most), not creators.


CalmMyTits said:


> I'm also ok with sharing books and music by people who are already dead.


That's how copyright is *supposed* to work.  But since corporations are fucking immortal and even if they do fail they sell their intellectual "property" on to other immortal corporations, they'd much rather continue to profit from the creativity of others forever and have the wherewithal to buy enough politicians to get what they want.


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

CalmMyTits said:


> I have been and still am a victim of pirating. I wrote several books and released them last year. (self-published) and I have had to file DMCA's at least a dozen times over the last year because of assholes who think they shouldn't have to pay for my books. I try to make my books reasonably priced and the electronic versions of my books are only a third of what the paperback versions cost because there is no overhead for paper, ink, shipping, etc so I tried to be fair with the prices. But assholes still think they can just rip my books and distribute for free despite my asking to please do not do so, within the copyright information in my books. So as a person who has been personally victimized by pirating, I can't say I am in favor of it, especially if you're a small-time person (author/artist/musician/etc) because I don't make anywhere near enough money off my books to quit my day job or anything lofty like that. I worked very hard on my books to make them the best they can possibly be and it really hurts me when I see my work on a free download site.


That's unfortunate, but times change. Making a living off of writing books might end up being infeasible. (Not that I think that's actually what's going to happen, but you've got to admit that's a possibility.)

Copyright is a benefit provided by the government to encourage stuff like what you're doing. The only thing that's happening now is that copyright is quickly becoming useless for those ends.



Some JERK said:


> Spoiler: Me sperging about shit I probably know nothing about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heh, actually, it's even worse than just whack-a-mole with the sites. See, the three things that make copyright _impossible_ to enforce are: fast computers, fast internet and strong encryption.

I don't even think many/most people who torrent (torrenters?) use encryption, but if people aggressively started pursuing copyright infringement all over, and going after torrent sites and stuff, everyone would just move over to encrypted protocols. Then media groups will have lost the war. Just outright lost. They'd probably do best to just take advantage of new technologies, and admit that demanding payment doesn't work anymore.



A-№1 said:


> I have no problem with paying creators.  It's middle men who have to convince me.  Because they are the ones who profit the most from copyright (and whine about it the most and fuck with it the most), not creators.


Oh, I was just pointing out that I'll buy stuff and give people money. But I've got to feel like I'm getting value for my money. Which I don't feel that's the case for most of the media I pirate. (Except trailer park boys, I totally might buy a copy of the movie, or maybe the TPB board game, which I hear is pretty rad.)


----------



## Thelostcup (Jun 28, 2014)

CalmMyTits said:


> I can say in all honesty that I am NOT in this category of people, and I know other authors who don't buy that 'free advertising' bullshit.



I know a few of self-published authors that use it as a tool to promote themselves.  They say, "I don't care if you download this without paying, but if you like it please give me a positive review on Amazon."  It seems to work for them, but everybody has their own preferences.


----------



## Himawari (Jun 28, 2014)

I'm kind of split on this.  I mean, I don't think pirating is right or should be legal, but I also think it's just kind of an inevitable, necessary evil, you know?  I do think it's incredibly shitty to pirate an indie/self-published product that would cost you maybe a few days of eating slightly cheaper meals in order to afford legally, though.

Many of the things I have come to enjoy and purchase legitimately were things I pirated first.  Sure, sometimes I pirate shit I end up not liking and would never consider playing money for.  But I have a volume of manga sitting on the coffee table right next to me that I never would have purchased or even known existed if I hadn't pirated it first, and now it's one of my absolute favorites.  Strongly considering even buying the monthly magazines it's serialized in, I love it so much.  God bless pirating.

I might change my mind a bit once I actually start creating shit professionally, but whatever.


----------



## Some JERK (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Heh, actually, it's even worse than just whack-a-mole with the sites. See, the three things that make copyright _impossible_ to enforce are: fast computers, fast internet and strong encryption.
> 
> I don't even think many/most people who torrent (torrenters?) use encryption, but if people aggressively started pursuing copyright infringement all over, and going after torrent sites and stuff, everyone would just move over to encrypted protocols. Then media groups will have lost the war. Just outright lost. They'd probably do best to just take advantage of new technologies, and admit that demanding payment doesn't work anymore.


Without question. As it sits now, end users who get "busted" are only those who don't really know much about what they're doing (which, to be fair is probably a grand-percentage). If you start actually dropping the hammer, some will stop, but most will dig in like ticks and then you're screwed.


----------



## A-№1 (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Except trailer park boys, I totally might buy a copy of the movie, or maybe the TPB board game, which I hear is pretty rad.


Absolutely, but personally I'd prefer just handing Clattenberg and the boys a wad of cash directly.  Because the owners of showcase are oligopolist dicks.

Also which movie?


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

Some JERK said:


> Without question. As it sits now, end users who get "busted" are only those who don't really know much about what they're doing (which, to be fair is probably a grand-percentage). If you start actually dropping the hammer, some will stop, but most will dig in like ticks and then you're screwed.


Oh, I don't even know how often they do bust people. Or even send out letters. Just personally, I pirate bunches of stuff, I'm a generous seeder, I don't use any peerblock or anything like that. I use public, well known torrent sites. Never had any problems.

Heh, for example, just to give you an idea of the scale of my torrenting, the average monthly network usage in my neighborhood was 17 GB. My average is 700 GB a month.



A-№1 said:


> Absolutely, but personally I'd prefer just handing Clattenberg and the boys a wad of cash directly.  Because the owners of showcase are oligopolist dicks.
> 
> Also which movie?


Oh yeah, same. I'm waiting for Don't Legalize It. I'm amazed that it's not on the internet yet. Not even a camrip. I would've thought some American would've just gone over the border to get a cam rip by now.

Maybe they've got people to keep americans out of the theaters. They might use shibboleths. Like they ask you what is the first grade in high school. "Uhh, it's 9th grade." "American! Guards, take him away!"


----------



## CalmMyTits (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> That's unfortunate, but times change. Making a living off of writing books might end up being infeasible. (Not that I think that's actually what's going to happen, but you've got to admit that's a possibility.)
> 
> Copyright is a benefit provided by the government to encourage stuff like what you're doing. The only thing that's happening now is that copyright is quickly becoming useless for those ends.



I'm not like Chris, thinking I'll become a billionaire off these books. I do hope that one day I might end up on the New York Times bestseller list, and I am 100 percent confident that my work is of a higher caliber than 50 Shades of Gray or Twilight. I don't profess to be as good as... I don't know, J.R.R. Tolkien or G.R.R. Martin, but I do work very hard on my stories and am currently working on my next book.

Yes, I do want to earn a income off my writing, but I think any person would want to see some compensation for the time and effort they put into their product. I enjoy writing and telling stories, and I am an avid reader of books. Books have always been a huge part of my life but it's not until last year that I actually published a book of my own. I am a practical person and while people are welcome to read my fanfiction for free (which is how I found my passion for writing) I also want to be able to make money off my writing, and have the nice feeling of security at having this additional source of income, regardless of how big that revenue stream is. Many people will never be able to quit their day jobs and pursue their passion full-time but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve fair compensation for their efforts.


----------



## Jewelsmakerguy (Jun 28, 2014)

Honestly, I've never really bothered (illegally) downloading software or games (not much of a gamer and all). I can see where the stance may be on movies and music, but if something is physically out of print and you can't find it anywhere. Then you _should_ feel obligated to get it through outside means. I also think books and unlicensed (or out of print) anime are fair game. The problem, in my eyes, is when that's all you do. Hell, I've done it plenty of times too, but I still buy movies and books (usually second hand since it's cheaper and all, but I like to own a physical copy most of the time).

Though this is coming from a Canadian, where our laws towards piracy are a little different to America. So who am I to say?


----------



## Pikonic (Jun 28, 2014)

Glaive said:


> I know the thread says "media", but if we extend this to cover software as well, how many of us have actually paid for things like Photoshop, Flash dev kit, Sony Vegas, or Illustrator?


Edited title for software.


----------



## TrippinKahlua (Jun 28, 2014)

Pirating is very much alive where I live. Music, DVDs, even Satellite cards are on the Black Market. I don't know how they get away with it, but its a way of life here. I don't support it though, because I like actual quality work and movies and content that are actually watchable. My sister acquired a pirated version of Shrek 2, and everything was horrible. The characters all looked like they were made of wood, and the audio had a lot of reverberation.

The last DVD I bought that was pirated was Seed of Chucky, and the basic atrociousness of that film surely helped contribute my decision to never buy from these street DVD vendors again.

Everything is official, factory made now.


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

CalmMyTits said:


> I'm not like Chris, thinking I'll become a billionaire off these books. I do hope that one day I might end up on the New York Times bestseller list, and I am 100 percent confident that my work is of a higher caliber than 50 Shades of Gray or Twilight. I don't profess to be as good as... I don't know, J.R.R. Tolkien or G.R.R. Martin, but I do work very hard on my stories and am currently working on my next book.
> 
> Yes, I do want to earn a income off my writing, but I think any person would want to see some compensation for the time and effort they put into their product. I enjoy writing and telling stories, and I am an avid reader of books. Books have always been a huge part of my life but it's not until last year that I actually published a book of my own. I am a practical person and while people are welcome to read my fanfiction for free (which is how I found my passion for writing) I also want to be able to make money off my writing, and have the nice feeling of security at having this additional source of income, regardless of how big that revenue stream is. Many people will never be able to quit their day jobs and pursue their passion full-time but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve fair compensation for their efforts.


Oh no, I'm sure you're being very reasonable. I'm just saying that creators are losing the ability to demand payment. They can't control their works anymore. The best they can do now is put content out and hope people like it enough to where they have dedicated fans.

Of course, people want compensation, but ultimately, it might just not be feasible for everyone to live off of their hobbies. Heh, I might have to get a job as a cashier someplace soon to pay the bills.

I'm reminded of how the other day I was on the bus, and the woman next to me was reading a romance novel entitled Life After a Balla. The author seems to be getting a fanbase.


----------



## Dr. Meme (Jun 28, 2014)

I'm personally terrified that if I pirate stuff something like this will happen to me.


----------



## Watcher (Jun 28, 2014)

Gabe Newell said:
			
		

> We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem, If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable.
> 
> Prior to entering the Russian market, we were told that Russia was a waste of time because everyone would pirate our products. Russia is now about to become [Steam's] largest market in Europe,



I've always liked digital distribution ever since I was a kid. Mostly because I remember reading in magazines when I was a kid about games that everyone seemed to play. Like "Doom" or "Half Life". But I could never find those games in stores, and wasn't old enough to buy things off Ebay. Even when I got older buying stuff on Ebay would always be a hassle since I'd have to pay for shipping and wait like a week or two since I live in a different country than the US.

With a digital distribution client like Steam. I can buy a game like Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition for 5$ and it takes 20 minutes for it to download to my PC.


----------



## Some JERK (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Oh, I don't even know how often they do bust people. Or even send out letters. Just personally, I pirate bunches of stuff, I'm a generous seeder, I don't use any peerblock or anything like that. I use public, well known torrent sites. Never had any problems.
> 
> Heh, for example, just to give you an idea of the scale of my torrenting, the average monthly network usage in my neighborhood was 17 GB. My average is 700 GB a month.


It's kinda like jury duty. I dated someone whose father was the head of the county public defender's office, and had also been a district attorney at one point. One day I asked him about it. Basically he said this: _"We send out X amount of jury duty notices. Usually about 2 or 3 times as many as we need. Of this, we expect about 25% to reply. of the 75% who don't even bother to show up, we pick out about 10% to recontact. If you ever get recontacted then don't even *think* about ignoring it again, because you're on the shitlist now, and they *will* come after you at that point. But the odds are, you could probably go your entire life throwing every jury duty notice straight into the trash, and nothing will ever happen."_ (And i've done just that my entire adult life, and not a thing has ever come of it.)

I suspect that DMCA penalties are a lot like that. They single out a few people out of the vast ocean of violators and go after them. But odds are you'll never even get a "Stop that" letter from your ISP.


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

Some JERK said:


> It's kinda like jury duty. I dated someone whose father was the head of the county public defender's office, and had also been a district attorney at one point. One day I asked him about it. Basically he said this: _"We send out X amount of jury duty notices. Usually about 2 or 3 times as many as we need. Of this, we expect about 25% to reply. of the 75% who don't even bother to show up, we pick out about 10% to recontact. If you ever get recontacted then don't even *think* about ignoring it again, because you're on the shitlist now, and they *will* come after you at that point. But the odds are, you could probably go your entire life throwing every jury duty notice straight into the trash, and nothing will ever happen."_ (And i've done just that my entire adult life, and not a thing has ever come of it.)
> 
> I suspect that DCMA penalties are a lot like that. They single out a few people out of the vast ocean of violators and go after them. But odds are you'll never even get a "Stop that" letter from your ISP.


Haha, speak of the devil, I just got a letter from selective service. They confirmed my address update I filed a bit ago, and I got a little wallet sized "confirmation" that I registered. Heh, like shit, where will that be useful? Am I out, getting grilled by SS officials confirming that I registered on the street? Sir, show us your papers, or you'll be taken to jail to confirm your SS registration! Haha, damn.


----------



## exball (Jun 28, 2014)

I realize if I bothered I probably would pirate stuff but torrenting sounds like it takes a lot of time and I'm fucking lazy.


----------



## Cute Anime Girl (Jun 28, 2014)

Dr. Teem said:


> I'm personally terrified that if I pirate stuff something like this will happen to me.




Nah, what you really need to worry about is DP coming after you.


----------



## Marvin (Jun 28, 2014)

exball said:


> I realize if I bothered I probably would pirate stuff but torrenting sounds like it takes a lot of time and I'm fucking lazy.


Heh, actually it's nearly instant for me. The effort part comes with when you leave the torrent open after you've finished downloading it. And I would encourage you to seed past when you've downloaded your file, but that's up to you.


----------



## Some JERK (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Heh, actually it's nearly instant for me. The effort part comes with when you leave the torrent open after you've finished downloading it. And I would encourage you to seed past when you've downloaded your file, but that's up to you.


I seed to 10 when there aren't that many seeders. If it's a file that already has thousands of seeders then I don't even bother.


----------



## Ariel (Jun 28, 2014)

I wonder how many people started pirating things like Game Of Thrones after all the publicity regarding illegal downloads? It seems like the quest to stop illegal downloads might have have the reverse effect.


----------



## A-№1 (Jun 28, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Oh yeah, same. I'm waiting for Don't Legalize It. I'm amazed that it's not on the internet yet. Not even a camrip. I would've thought some American would've just gone over the border to get a cam rip by now.


It's probably like poutine.  Sometimes you have no other option than heading north to get the good stuff.


> They might use shibboleths. Like they ask you what is the first grade in high school. "Uhh, it's 9th grade." "American! Guards, take him away!"


Lol.  Quick, name this delicious food product!







Marvin said:


> Oh no, I'm sure you're being very reasonable. I'm just saying that creators are losing the ability to demand payment. They can't control their works anymore. The best they can do now is put content out and hope people like it enough to where they have dedicated fans.


Sort of.  Creators always have the option of just not creating any more.  Even Chris worked that one out with Sonichu.

Again, it's the middle men publishers who really lose out to new technology because they have lost the ability to insert themselves as an oligopolic wedge between creators and consumers.  Just look at comic strips these days.  Comic strips are just images, and if anything images are the easiest thing on the internet to copy and distribute ("pirate" if you will).  Admittedly there were some damn fine comic strips in the past (and quite a few crappy ones), but there are more comics these days than I could ever have dreamed of back then, and their creators are doing better for themselves than they ever would have under the old school syndication racket.  Now obviously not everyone with a webcomic is doing swimmingly, but some of them are doing quite well and a hell of a lot more of them are doing better than they ever would have when the syndicates kept a stranglehold on access to the market.

tl;dr: modern copyright laws (and copyright legal fuckery) are used to screw content creators as much as consumers.


Dr. Teem said:


> I'm personally terrified that if I pirate stuff something like this will happen to me.


I would hate to be trapped in a bad high school skit as well.


Marvin said:


> Haha, speak of the devil, I just got a letter from selective service. They confirmed my address update I filed a bit ago, and I got a little wallet sized "confirmation" that I registered. Heh, like shit, where will that be useful? Am I out, getting grilled by SS officials confirming that I registered on the street? Sir, show us your papers, or you'll be taken to jail to confirm your SS registration! Haha, damn.


It's quite handy for trolling feminists and mens rights nitwits.  Also in case you ever need financial aid for college.


----------



## Stuff and Things (Jun 28, 2014)

I support small companies, and i even support big companies if i feel like it, but i don't have problems downloading music or movies or games or books, whatever. I think it all comes down to the context of the situations. For example, i am downloading music right now, and the musicians whose music i am downloading, they don't lose any money for not buying their stuff, instead, for not buying their stuff, they believe that not too many fans exist here where i live, and thus they don't come here to make live concerts.... So yeah, i've been thinking about this as well, and i think it all comes down to the context of the situations.


----------



## Takayuki Yagami (Jun 29, 2014)

Alan Pardew said:


> I only pirate games from far bigger developers (who are notorious for being greedy such as EA) but I support the small companies.


There's also the issue of DRM. I know that for a lot of people, Asassin's Creed 2 did not work for legit buyers, so they pirated it.


----------



## KatsuKitty (Jun 29, 2014)

Cute Anime Girl said:


> Nah, what you really need to worry about is DP coming after you.



MC DP?


----------



## Uzumaki (Jun 29, 2014)

CalmMyTits said:


> I can say in all honesty that I am NOT in this category of people, and I know other authors who don't buy that 'free advertising' bullshit.



I realize this is going to come off condescending, but if you're a relatively unknown author and you care more about a few online sales than gaining exposure to grow your audience, you're throwing away dollars to save pennies. The reality of how media is consumed is changing, and if you want to throw your hat in with the dinosaurs just as the meteor enters Earth's atmosphere, all I can do is wish you luck.

Too many people get caught up in the money aspect of writing without realizing that you can't make money if nobody knows who you are.

Another question: do you honestly think all the people who pirate your book would have bought it legitimately? What do you think is the percentage that would have, if you're honest with yourself? Now how many of that percentage would have even heard of it if it wasn't in that torrent? People look at a torrent with 10,000 downloads and imagine 10,000 lost sales, when it's more like maybe 4-5 lost sales (if that) and 10,000 people who are now exposed to (and if it's good, emotionally connected to) the work in question.

Edit: And before you ask: yes I write and yes I've been pirated.


----------



## A-Stump (Jun 29, 2014)

WOULD YOU DOWNLOAD A CAR


----------



## Ti-99/4A (Jun 29, 2014)

A-Stump said:


> WOULD YOU DOWNLOAD A CAR


If it was possible, Of course I would! CARS ARE EXPENSIVE!


----------



## Uzumaki (Jun 29, 2014)

A-Stump said:


> WOULD YOU DOWNLOAD A CAR



In Star Trek the Vulcan technology to download cars brings about a never-ending golden age for humanity that includes the elimination of all war, poverty and the concept of statehood. Instead of having money, humans work simply for the betterment of their community and their species.

Edit: I know what you're thinking, but in Next Gen they play poker for fun just with chips (and I think for ship duties in one episode, maybe I'm misremembering) and in DS9 they use latinum only when dealing with non-humans, because those jerks don't have a glowing utopia yet like us, and human criminals. There's no federation-citizen-to-federation-citizen money.


----------



## Pikonic (Jun 29, 2014)

A-Stump said:


> WOULD YOU DOWNLOAD A CAR







Someday


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Jul 2, 2014)

While I don't think copying per se is normally theft (it's normally the opposite), there are some situations where it can cause damages when it's illegal, in my opinion.


----------



## Hróðvitnisson (Jul 4, 2014)

Let us say that I own a pen and a paper.  I go to the library and transcribe from a book.  The author has no claim upon my property, that is to say, my paper merged with my ink from my pen.

The same holds true for hard drives.


----------



## Night Terror (Jul 4, 2014)

I pirate because I'm a cheap, lazy bastard who doesn't like to part with money if I can help it.
I'm not sticking it to the man. I'm not trying to make a statement. I'm not embracing anarchy or communism. I'm just frugal and a dick.


----------



## StallChaser (Jul 6, 2014)

Pirating isn't stealing, but it's worth something.  It depends on what you'd be willing to pay if you couldn't pirate it.  If it's not available at all (old, out of print, localization BS, etc), then the original owner wouldn't be making any money from you anyways, and I wouldn't consider it immoral at all.


----------



## Dr. Mario (Jul 6, 2014)

I don't feel bad about pirating Adobe's products. They're expensive as shit and usually graphic designers don't have a lot of money to spend on software.


----------



## Foulmouth (Jul 6, 2014)

I'd might actually feel bad about piracy if most of the big game companies didn't release half finished buggy garbage as standard these days.
If the cunts don't put the effort in to finish their product why the fuck should I hand over good money for it ?


----------



## Dark Mirror Hole (Jul 7, 2014)

Foulmouth said:


> I'd might actually feel bad about piracy if most of the big game companies didn't release half finished buggy garbage as standard these days.
> If the cunts don't put the effort in to finish their product why the fuck should I hand over good money for it ?


Not to mention that everything is expensive in Australia for no good reason. Some of those games cost $100!


----------



## Aiko Heiwa (Jul 7, 2014)

My view on pirating media/software is pretty simple: I only do it if I have no other choice (like something that you can't get legally where I am) or I wanna try a game out or see if I like a movie without renting it/buying it. Otherwise, I don't pirate and never will. Nor do I care if you pirate, but don't act like I'm some sheep for buying products when I want to support the companies that make them.

Also I absolutely can't stand it when an anime gets licensed and released here in the US, but people keep pirating it, so the company stops releasing it, and then the pirates are all "Look, they cancelled the release! See this is why I pirate!"


----------



## trueandhonestfan (Jul 21, 2014)

Foulmouth said:


> I'd might actually feel bad about piracy if most of the big game companies didn't release half finished buggy garbage as standard these days.
> If the cunts don't put the effort in to finish their product why the fuck should I hand over good money for it ?


That reminds me of when I downloaded School Days HQ. The game had all of the bugs from the original release in Japan. It literally seemed like the only thing they did was replace the Japanese text with English. I might have paid $30 for it, but not $60 or $70.


----------



## bradsternum (Jul 21, 2014)

I have zero problem with it. On a list of immoral shit that I may or may not be involved in, downloading software that's too expensive to start with is a petty sin. If I can, I will pay for products put out by smaller companies.


----------



## LordCustos3 (Jul 24, 2014)

bradsternum said:


> I have zero problem with it. On a list of immoral shit that I may or may not be involved in, downloading software _*that's too expensive to start with*_ is a petty sin. If I can, I will pay for products put out by smaller companies.



This is a point that should not be overlooked.
Once something can be digitized, the _*actual cost*_ drops through a hole in the floor.
Google "post-scarcity economy".
When it comes to objects and items that can be digitized, *we already ARE* living in a post-scarcity economy.

If the RIAA/MPAA/MAFIAA can't adapt, it deserves to fade into irrelevance.

Especially considering the RIAA was formed as a union to protect the artist from predations by the record companies, but is now totally owned BY the rercord companies (a situation no different than when CultWatch was conquered and co-opted by the Church of Scientology) that the death of the RIAA is not only something to applaud but contribute to.


----------



## Konstantinos (Oct 4, 2014)

I'm more amoral than I would like to admit about piracy. Then again, I'm a college student and I'm poor as shit so I don't exactly have a lot of money to spare.

If the government doesn't really care about stopping piracy than they shouldn't make such a big deal about it.


----------



## Whatisgoingon (Oct 6, 2014)

If I want something, I will do my best to buy the product unless one of three things happen:
1. It is way too expensive (like $100+), this one doesn't happen too often.
2. It is out of print so if I am able to purchase the game/movie/show ect. the money won't actually be going to the people who made it and will most likely be overpriced compared to when it was in print.
3. A company whose practices/things they've done make it so I can't stand them acquires a series I like (although even then I might buy it with the rationale being that the company will continue the series).

Although I very rarely pirate, I don't really give a crap if anyone else pirates. In my opinion, the effect that piracy causes is very minimal, because usually if someone is pirating something, they either can't buy it legally or weren't going to buy it legally anyways.


----------



## RV 229 (Oct 9, 2014)

Since somebody somewhere must be losing money from it, I can't say it's the right. But I do it anyways.


----------



## niggers (Oct 14, 2014)

nobody steals if they can buy it, at least generally (some folk break the law just so they can)

if i could buy what i pirate, i would. i can't, so i don't.

the best way to circumvent it is to offer some kind of bonus for paying users (exclusive content, online connectivity, etc) or make what you're selling cheaper. you can't do this for every album, game or piece of software but it's pretty effective when you can. just look at steam. want a game? wait for a sale, and get all the updates/cards/emoticons/access to multiplayer servers. 

sales go up, pirates still get what they want, the consumer gets perks.


----------



## Tragi-Chan (Oct 17, 2014)

I've had a lot of stuff that I published online pirated. For instance, I had several paragraphs of a blog entry I wrote that showed up, almost word-for-word, in a _Daily Mail_ article with no attribution. That really pissed me off, not so much because of the theft (I wouldn't have made money out of that entry), but because someone else _was_ making money for my work. I've seen lots of things I've written republished elsewhere online, but I tend to view it as an occupational hazard - in some cases, it's work that's so shit I'm happy for someone else to take credit.



Spoiler



While I would ultimately like to make money off my work, I tend to think of it as more of an issue of respect, in the case of the stuff I do. For instance, last year I wrote a play that was performed and fairly well received. It's not been published, because it's a one-act play and publishers aren't interested in those. A couple of months ago I got wind that one of the cast was mounting his own production of that play at uni. I was pretty livid. It wasn't a question of money, I would have let him perform it for free, because he was a friend and because the publicity I'd get would also be valuable - _but he didn't ask_. I did come down on the production like the metaphorical ton of bricks and it got pulled, and there was a lot of bad feeling all round, but fuck 'em if they're going to use my work without meeting my terms.


 
All this being said, I'm probably a bit of a hypocrite, because there is stuff I've watched online that wasn't entirely legal. In most cases, though, it's either something I watch to get a feel for a series prior to buying it legit or something that you can't buy legit.



Spoiler



A specific case of the latter was a series called _Tugs_ that I used to watch as a kid. When I was about six, it was my absolute favourite show bar none. However, only one season was made before the distributors went bust. I discovered a small but active fandom online, who were campaigning to get it released on DVD, but the problem was that no one knew who owned the copyright now - it seemed to have been chopped up between a number of different companies. The fans got in contact with several different people who had been involved with the series, but got nowhere. One of the stranger episodes was when they managed to get hold of one of the creators of the series, who was quite adamant that he could help and was willing to endorse the project, only to deny all knowledge later on. Then he died, which was a bit of a bummer. The general consensus is that no one knows, and the series wasn't popular enough to make it worth any distributor's while to get it all sorted. I'd absolutely buy it on DVD if I could, but I can't, so I watch it on YouTube.


----------



## Cheeseburger Picnic (Oct 27, 2014)

My stance is simple; I buy something if I like it and keep it. I downloaded The Sims 4 the other day and thank fucking god because I don't have an extra 60 bucks to spend on three hours of mediocrity.


----------



## TheRedRanger (Nov 12, 2014)

An interesting thought from something I did a while ago.

I live in the UK, so release dates are sometimes delayed. A while ago, I was looking forward to the release of the Enemy within expansion for X-Com, I was fucking stoked!
I'd pre-ordered it on Steam, paid the £19.99 for it, and was going nuts with anticipation. So when it came out in the US, I pirated it from an American site. Was this wrong of me? Pirating something I'd already paid for? After all, the publishers hadn't lost out, and I got what I'd paid for, albeit not through the means I'd paid for. I didn't do anything wrong, right?
Any other thoughts on this?


----------



## Sanic (Nov 12, 2014)

Don't mind buying FNAF or the sequel; as well as Serious Sam and other indie games. I could care less about many others, though (especially EA).


----------



## Marvin (Nov 13, 2014)

TheRedRanger said:


> An interesting thought from something I did a while ago.
> 
> I live in the UK, so release dates are sometimes delayed. A while ago, I was looking forward to the release of the Enemy within expansion for X-Com, I was fucking stoked!
> I'd pre-ordered it on Steam, paid the £19.99 for it, and was going nuts with anticipation. So when it came out in the US, I pirated it from an American site. Was this wrong of me? Pirating something I'd already paid for? After all, the publishers hadn't lost out, and I got what I'd paid for, albeit not through the means I'd paid for. I didn't do anything wrong, right?
> Any other thoughts on this?


The only people who'd give a shit about this are trying to make a bunch of noise to get on the news. Also they have sand in their vaginas.


----------



## exball (Nov 16, 2014)

A little off-topic but Far Cry 4 has already been leaked and pirated.


----------



## Segue (Nov 16, 2014)

As much as I hate to admit it, I pirate music. I wish I didn't HAVE to pirate music but reasons like money and feeling like I may not get my precious money's worth but I'm just stingy like that. However sometimes I feel like it is justified, like an album being overpriced or certain albums having bonus tracks that you can only get through specific means. Bonus tracks are goddamn asinine and its just an incentive to pirate an album rather than paying 10 bucks for an incomplete one.


----------



## Holdek (Nov 25, 2014)

9/10 piracy is essentially stealing but people will come up with as many justifications as necessary to keep doing it.  They download anonymously and in the relative privacy of their own homes, unlike shoplifting, so they don't risk any social judgement.  And, like all stealing, the main bonus is that it turns stuff that costs money into free stuff.


----------



## Mister Lister (Nov 25, 2014)

I have a friend who is a weird mix of programming genius and star-child, flowers-in-his-rank-unwashed-dreadlocks, hippy. He created a game a few years back called 'Wheelz' which is basically a clone of the old BMX Trials flash game.

He released it for free on Android and iPhone, with adverts, and a paid version for a couple of bucks with no adverts. He actually ended up making more money through the _free_ version, even with the tiny revenue the adverts produced, and I will point out over 10,000 people downloaded his paid version last time I checked. So we aren't talking just a little bit of cash here.

He also released it on Demonoid for people to pirate for free. That's right, _he pirated his own game to other people_. If people emailed him about the game, saying they loved the free version, often he would email them back telling them where to download the full version for free. Building that kind of relationship with your customers is what makes the difference between piracy hurting a company, and it strangely making you a success.

I know when it comes to a company such as Valve, I will happily pay for their products, because I genuinely WANT them to have my money. I love their products, and I love how they treat their customers. I think Gabe himself once said something along the lines of "Piracy is not a pricing problem. It is a service problem." and I would fully agree.


----------



## Sanic (Dec 3, 2014)

Stealing is wrong, but I won't lie, I pirate the shit out of music. Sometimes games too, especially older ones that can't be found anymore.


----------



## Henry Bemis (Dec 4, 2014)

Re: music. Two words: Interlibrary loans.


----------



## Uzumaki (Dec 4, 2014)

Holdek said:


> 9/10 piracy is essentially stealing but people will come up with as many justifications as necessary to keep doing it.  They download anonymously and in the relative privacy of their own homes, unlike shoplifting, so they don't risk any social judgement.  And, like all stealing, the main bonus is that it turns stuff that costs money into free stuff.



Conflating piracy with theft is childish nonsense. It's copyright infringement, there's not reason to get hysterical about it.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 4, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> Conflating piracy with theft is childish nonsense. It's copyright infringement, there's not reason to get hysterical about it.


Who's getting hysterical?  Just calling a spade a spade.


----------



## Uzumaki (Dec 4, 2014)

Holdek said:


> Who's getting hysterical?  Just calling a spade a spade.



You're calling a spade a club.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 4, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> You're calling a spade a club.


Nah.  If someone wants to sell you something that they own, and you take it for free without permission instead, that's more or less theft.


----------



## Uzumaki (Dec 4, 2014)

Holdek said:


> Nah.  If someone wants to sell you something that they own, and you take it for free without permission instead, that's more or less theft.



There's a difference between taking something and copying something and you know there is. It's just easier to make your argument if you can say it's theft so you're being deliberately disingenuous.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 4, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> There's a difference between taking something and copying something



But the important _similarity_ is that you don't pay for it.


----------



## Uzumaki (Dec 4, 2014)

Holdek said:


> But the important _similarity_ is that you don't pay for it.



Is trespassing theft too then? There's a reason we have different words for different situations. Words mean things.


----------



## exball (Dec 4, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> Is trespassing theft too then? There's a reason we have different words for different situations. Words mean things.


How does trespassing have anything to do with not paying for something you're supposed to buy?


----------



## Uzumaki (Dec 4, 2014)

exball said:


> How does trespassing have anything to do with not paying for something you're supposed to buy?



It's "theft" of enjoyment of property you don't own.

Edit: If I camp at a camp site by sneaking in and not paying I'm trespassing. I'm not stealing camping. I'm also not stealing the land because I'm not depriving the owner of it. _Stealing_ the land would mean something else so we have a different word. Trying to take all the nuance out of language because the grey areas help your ideological opponents is dumb bullshit.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 5, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> Words mean things.



  Then so was Blackbeard not a "thief," just a "pirate?"  Words just mean what we use them for.  Many are euphemistic or otherwise culturally influenced for a variety of purposes.



Uzumaki said:


> Edit: If I camp at a camp site by sneaking in and not paying I'm trespassing.  I'm not stealing camping.



That situation would be essentially theft, yes.  Not sure what's so hard to grasp about it.

It's like if someone "copies" your identification and uses it without your permission.  You could call it "identity piracy" if you wanted, but it's also identity _theft_.

Stealing is stealing.


----------



## Uzumaki (Dec 5, 2014)

Holdek said:


> Then so was Blackbeard not a "thief," just a "pirate?"  Words just mean what we use them for.  Many are euphemistic or otherwise culturally influenced for a variety of purposes.



Words mean what _we_ use them for. We, as in the entire English speaking populace, not one lone wolf who has decided to change the meaning of a word to suit his ideological goals when there already exists a word with that meaning.

Whatever though, this is a stupid circular argument that I'm finished having.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 5, 2014)

Uzumaki said:


> Words mean what _we_ use them for. We, as in the entire English speaking populace, not one lone wolf who has decided to change the meaning of a word to suit his ideological goals when there already exists a word with that meaning.
> 
> Whatever though, this is a stupid circular argument that I'm finished having.



Okay, but I think most of the English-speaking populace would consider piracy stealing.


----------



## Marvin (Dec 7, 2014)

Piracy is stealing in the same way that opening up a competing business across the street from another business is stealing their business idea.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 14, 2014)

Marvin said:


> Piracy is stealing in the same way that opening up a competing business across the street from another business is stealing their business idea.


Ideas aren't copyrighted though.


----------



## Marvin (Dec 14, 2014)

Holdek said:


> Ideas aren't copyrighted though.


I'm saying that violating a copyright is stealing in the same way that "stealing" an idea is stealing. It's rhetorical.


----------



## Holdek (Dec 14, 2014)

Marvin said:


> I'm saying that violating a copyright is stealing in the same way that "stealing" an idea is stealing. It's rhetorical.


I actually think it's the exact opposite, that violating copyright is_ rhetorically not_ stealing, but is _de facto_ stealing.  

Do you believe that "intellectual property" is a legitimate concept?


----------



## Marvin (Dec 14, 2014)

Holdek said:


> Do you believe that "intellectual property" is a legitimate concept?


No. The property analogy doesn't work on intangible things.


----------



## Ification (Dec 15, 2014)

Online media piracy is more like if you walked into a grocery store, took an apple, cloned it into two apples, and then left with one of the cloned apples. The company technically doesn't lose the product, but they still lost the potential money they could have gotten if you paid for the apple normally. Of course, piracy is a bit more complicated than that, what with the people who eventually buy the game after pirating it, and the people who never would have gotten the game if they didn't pirate it. As such, I personally think of media piracy is a unique form of theft, one that can't be compared to shoplifting, plagiarism, and other forms of stealing.


----------



## Van Darkholme (Jan 2, 2015)

I used to pirate a lot more back in the day when I didn't have money. Nowadays its mostly stuff you can't get that easily like certain doujin music or VN's. If there's actually an album I like (which is rare) I try to get it on vinyl. Very rarely I watch movies via some streaming site as I prefer watching them on blu ray instead. Also porn.

I try to avoid buying anything from EA or Ubishit, most of their games suck anyway.


----------

