# Gender Critical Feminism



## Spinster (Apr 14, 2019)

As you can probably tell, Kiwifarms has recently become hugely popular with gender critical feminists. This is one of the only websites on the net that freely allows criticism of the trans ideology, which is very worrying. Trans people, especially trans women, are trying to make criticizing trans illegal in the UK. 

Mumsnet is one of the only UK forums that allows the discussion to take place. However, they do not allow personal attacks, so it's hard to discuss specific people. This is why many Mumsnetters are flocking over here. 

I was just wondering what people here think of the trans ideology?

Personally, I do not believe humans can change sex, and I think that gender stereotypes are very harmful. If you have XX chromosomes, you're female. If you have XY chromosomes, you're male.


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## Zersetzung (Apr 14, 2019)

It's all a mind game to keep us from discussing transhumanism, ultimately preventing nerds from having skull guns installed and/or escaping the prison of our mortal shackles.


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## RG 448 (Apr 14, 2019)

I wouldn’t presume to tell a complete stranger how they should deal with an issue I have never experienced.  Trans folk have as much of a right to feel respected and safe as anyone else.  Not more, not less.


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## SigSauer (Apr 14, 2019)

Trannies and leftists are always online, which makes them more likely to become forum moderators, which in turn enables more trannies.

Centrists/moderate liberals are too scared to put the foot down and get rid of them and it ends up destroying the forum (see: SomethingAwful, NeoGAF).

Kiwi Farms isn’t that far away from getting SomethingAwful’d or NeoGAF’d. You just wait.


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## RG 448 (Apr 14, 2019)

SigSauer said:


> Kiwi Farms isn’t that far away from getting SomethingAwful’d or NeoGAF’d.


It’s extremely far away from that.


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## Helicopter Pad (Apr 14, 2019)

Troons are dumb, feminists are dumber, either way they're both fun to laugh at.


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## SigSauer (Apr 14, 2019)

BigRuler said:


> no. unlike the crazy tranny mods at those other sites, the ones at KF are reasonable and nice people.
> also null is not a cuck like evilore or lowtax, we are in safe hands here


Leftists will win eventually. They’re known for being slick. How do you think they turned 4/pol/ into the hormone infested shit fest it is now? By infiltrating moderator positions on there. It’ll probably hit here too sometime.


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## Spinster (Apr 14, 2019)

BigRuler said:


> there's an entire subforum here dedicated to laughing at trannies ("la zorra")
> also this 180 page megathread: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/reddits-trans-community.33028/



Yes, those threads are what brought me here. However, I couldn't see a general discussion of gender critical feminism?



Testaclese Maximus said:


> I wouldn’t presume to tell a complete stranger how they should deal with an issue I have never experienced.  Trans folk have as much of a right to feel respected and safe as anyone else.  Not more, not less.



That's fair enough, and neither would I. 

However, the rights of trans people do not trump the rights of others. For example, a trans woman may want to use the women's bathroom in order to feel like a woman. However, whilst this may help the trans woman, it does not help the natal women. Many natal women will feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a man. I am female, and if a man came into a woman's bathroom, I would immediately leave. It wouldn't matter whether he was wearing a dress or not.


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## RG 448 (Apr 14, 2019)

SigSauer said:


> Leftists will win eventually. They’re known for being slick.


No, they’re the opposite of slick.  That’s why Trump is president.


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## Spinster (Apr 14, 2019)

Helicopter Pad said:


> Troons are dumb, feminists are dumber, either way they're both fun to laugh at.



Why do you think feminists are dumb?


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## guccigash (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> Yes, those threads are what brought me here. However, I couldn't see a general discussion of gender critical feminism?



terfs/gender critical feminists megathread






						TERFs / Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists / Gender Critical Feminists
					

What do you get when you mix the gender views of the rightwing and the fanatical nonsense of radical feminists? Making this thread at the suggestion of Katsu. We all know how much Christians and shit are triggered by transpeople, this is old news. There's another group that hates them just as...




					kiwifarms.net


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## Y2K Baby (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> Why do you think feminists are dumb?


Because women are dumb, duh.


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## Spinster (Apr 14, 2019)

Tard Baby said:


> Because women are dumb, duh.



You know there's no such thing as a "lady brain", right? Women are almost identical to men in terms of intelligence, and so forth.



BigRuler said:


> well this is a gossip site dedicated to making fun of exceptional individuals on the internet, not an intellectual debate club for academic feminism lol
> 
> there's a few terf-y users here,  and a dedicated TERF thread, but that's primarily for laughing at and making fun of crazy reddit terfs so you probably won't enjoy it very much
> still, most users here tend to support the terf side in the eternal terf-against-trans internet war, and will usually be sympathetic to the terf cause when trannies are acting exceptional again (which is all the time)



TBF, this board is called "Deep Thoughts"...


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## 666DEATHGAY (Apr 14, 2019)

People can do whatever weird shit they want but I don't wanna pay for it, hear about it or have a high opinion of it.

Trannys are funny though cause they are fucked up crazy people.

Radical feminists are worse than trannies though because they have so much societal influence.


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## Y2K Baby (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> You know there's no such thing as a "lady brain", right? Women are almost identical to men in terms of intelligence, and so forth.


Fake news.


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## Foxxo (Apr 14, 2019)

Since when has Kiwi Farms been TERF Central?


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## Wendy Carter (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> You know there's no such thing as a "lady brain", right? Women are almost identical to men in terms of intelligence, and so forth.


As far as I know that is not true. Women's emotional parts of the brain usually take priority, while men use their logical parts more often. There are also many other various differences, including things such as a sexually dimorphic nucleus, currently believed to have a connection with sexuality in animals, including even humans.


Spinster said:


> TBF, this board is called "Deep Thoughts"...


People on KF shitpost everywhere, including Deep Thoughts, especially the more reputable ones like Y2K Baby, Testaclese Maximus and Dynastia. You can't expect people on a forum about speds to take things seriously. Don't take it personally, it doesn't mean they don't respect you or the subject matter.


Foxxo said:


> Since when has Kiwi Farms been TERF Central?


Since after the events surrounding Yaniv and his (probably) still unwaxed ladyballs.


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## Jeremy Galt (Apr 14, 2019)

First of all, let's use correct terms:

female:
of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
Male
of or denoting the sex that produces small, typically motile gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.
• In humans, a male is born if both X and Y chromosomes are present, and a female is born if both the chromosomes are X.

So, no matter how you feel about it, or how liberals feel about it, or what your friends feel about it, or what your gender studies class in college says about it, if you have X & Y you will always be a male, and just because you're a cross-dresser does not mean your sex is changed. Period.

Thanks for participating.


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## Y2K Baby (Apr 14, 2019)

Jeremy Galt said:


> First of all, let's use correct terms:
> 
> female:
> of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.
> ...


Woah, #factsandlogic


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## Eryngium (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> As you can probably tell, Kiwifarms has recently become hugely popular with gender critical feminists. This is one of the only websites on the net that freely allows criticism of the trans ideology, which is very worrying. Trans people, especially trans women, are trying to make criticizing trans illegal in the UK.
> 
> Mumsnet is one of the only UK forums that allows the discussion to take place. However, they do not allow personal attacks, so it's hard to discuss specific people. This is why many Mumsnetters are flocking over here.
> 
> ...


I have a friend who had nasty gender dysphoria until they transitioned at around 18 with hormones and shit (no sex surgery tho), I think there is a massive difference between people who genuinely have gender dysphoria to the point they shave all their hair before a school dance and then actually try to kill themselves-and these people obsessed with "trans rights" who are obsessed with dead-naming and other idiotic shit.


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## crocodilian (Apr 14, 2019)

Transexuality is a subversive means of making a country's natives weak, emotionally unstable and totally reliant on medication, thus making it easier for them to be replaced.

An overwhelming majority of them are white; virtually none of them are immigrants. Transexuals themselves have over twice the rate of mental illness as their non-trans peers, and roughly 41% of trans people end up killing themselves (and even more attempt it.) The amount of transexual children has been doubling annually, thanks in part to changes in law that allow parents to reassign their child's gender without their consent, but (as cited above) the only kids who seem to undergo this with any regularity are white. Combine this with less natives having kids and you start to see why transexuality being heavily pushed throughout the media comes off as immediately suspicious.

"But why would such a conspiracy even exist?" you probably ask. The answer is simple: debt. If you're a boomer or a millennial, you're probably debt saturated. You have no money to spend because any money you _do_ have is spent paying off said debt. You also can't take out any more loans because you can't afford it. This results in people having less money to spend on frivolous shit and, thus, a stagnant economy. 

You know who doesn't have any debt, loans or problems buying superfluous garbage? Immigrants. In fact, they make an exceptional amount of money thanks to not having to pay very much into the country's general workings. This makes them a fresh new stock of goyim to saddle with debts, loans, interest rates and petty spending. And with them breeding so much more than natives and having a lower IQ, they'll fall for the debt scheme even harder than whitey did.


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## Red Hood (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> You know there's no such thing as a "lady brain", right? Women are almost identical to men in terms of intelligence, and so forth.
> 
> 
> 
> TBF, this board is called "Deep Thoughts"...


Taking @Tard Baby completely seriously,  are you gonna have a bad time here.


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## Spinster (Apr 14, 2019)

The Shadow said:


> Taking @Tard Baby completely seriously, WOW. are you gonna have a bad time here.



I thought the same before I signed up, but actually, everyone has been really helpful and polite!


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## PowPow (Apr 14, 2019)

I share his opinion.








						Ben Shapiro DESTROYS Transgenderism And Pro-Abortion Arguments
					

From Ben Shapiro's Q and A session at Ferris State Authority Watch more at http://www.dailywire.com




					www.youtube.com


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## Крыса (Apr 14, 2019)

crocodilian said:


> [...]
> You know who doesn't have any debt, loans or problems buying superfluous garbage? Immigrants. In fact, they make an exceptional amount of money thanks to not having to pay very much into the country's general workings. This makes them a fresh new stock of goyim to saddle with debts, loans, interest rates and petty spending. And with them breeding so much more than natives and having a lower IQ, they'll fall for the debt scheme even harder than whitey did.


So let me TL;DR that, the Jews have taken all of the whites' money, but being Jews they want even more so they kill off the whites by turning them into troons so that browns can replace them as cash cows ?


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## nonvir_1984 (Apr 14, 2019)

crocodilian said:


> Transexuality is a subversive means of making a country's natives weak, emotionally unstable and totally reliant on medication, thus making it easier for them to be replaced.


I think you have just articulated another threat to Western civilization: "The Great Transformation Theory".
I'm not saying I don't believe it,  because I think there is way too much psycho medication prescribed - and way too many people who think they are no longer male or female or whatever.


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## HoTTaKe (Apr 14, 2019)

Nothing really important to add except that trannies get comprehensively ass-holocausted if you use a username like "FtMTeRF" in their communities.


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## crocodilian (Apr 14, 2019)

Крыса said:


> So let me TL;DR that, the Jews have taken all of the whites' money, but being Jews they want even more so they kill off the whites by turning them into troons so that browns can replace them as cash cows ?



It's either a big supervillain-esque plan put into motion, or they've completely fucked the mental health industry and societal norms so they've decided to capitalize on it. Both are equally as plausible and, really, it doesn't matter whether it's one or the other.


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## nonvir_1984 (Apr 14, 2019)

Spinster said:


> As you can probably tell, Kiwifarms has recently become hugely popular with gender critical feminists. This is one of the only websites on the net that freely allows criticism of the trans ideology, which is very worrying. Trans people, especially trans women, are trying to make criticizing trans illegal in the UK.
> 
> Mumsnet is one of the only UK forums that allows the discussion to take place. However, they do not allow personal attacks, so it's hard to discuss specific people. This is why many Mumsnetters are flocking over here.
> 
> ...


IMHO, a good topic.
I agree - people can't change their biological composition. Psychological - well, folks believe strange stuff all the time, so thinking you are female when you were born male, or vice versa is just part of that.. Some people think they are sane and rational, but the evidence is to the contrary. I don't really care. 
And I'll call them what they want. I just don't want someone telling me what to call them; or saying I'm a bigot when I trannies don't turn me on. 
I'm not sure there is a trans ideology as such, just as there is no incel ideology. From what I've seen, life is hell for trannies, but it is for lots of folks who are not in the mainstream. And I feel sorry for them, for that reason. 
My beef is with people who want to tell people what to think, or what to read, or what to watch (except kiddie fiddlers who should locked up for good or worse). I don't give a fuck about trannies opinions or anyone elses for that matter; I can barely give a fuck about my own.


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## Kalishnakov (Apr 14, 2019)

SigSauer said:


> Trannies and leftists are always online, which makes them more likely to become forum moderators, which in turn enables more trannies.
> 
> Centrists/moderate liberals are too scared to put the foot down and get rid of them and it ends up destroying the forum (see: SomethingAwful, NeoGAF).
> 
> Kiwi Farms isn’t that far away from getting SomethingAwful’d or NeoGAF’d. You just wait.


You noticed that as well. 
Kiwifarms has been 'infiltrated' already. Same clusterfuck that posts as a little group elsewhere.


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## ProgKing of the North (Apr 14, 2019)

Kalishnakov said:


> You noticed that as well.
> Kiwifarms has been 'infiltrated' already. Same clusterfuck that posts as a little group elsewhere.


The fact that people post opinions you disagree with does not mean anybody's "infiltrating" anywhere


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## Kalishnakov (Apr 14, 2019)

ProgKing of the North said:


> The fact that people post opinions you disagree with does not mean anybody's "infiltrating" anywhere


Really?  I will disagree, as it is quite obvious.
Same clusterfuck and same MO.


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## The Pink Panther (Apr 15, 2019)

Simple and to the point:

2 genders. If you have multiple X and Y's, those aren't other genders, they are mutations.

If you wanna be a tranny, that's fine if it helps you cope with your dysphoria, but I don't agree with it as an outlet of "expressing your true self", even though that's totally fine within itself, but it's fucking weird.

Also, don't chop your dick off. Franken-vaginas are gross as shit and anyone who gets one is a fucking retard


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## Kalishnakov (Apr 15, 2019)

The Pink Panther said:


> Simple and to the point:
> 
> 2 genders. If you have multiple X and Y's, those aren't other genders, they are mutations.
> 
> ...


B-b-but if you don't applaud the bizarre, you are labeled a 'transphobe."





And now, schools are "teaching" trans studies, as though it was not clearly a mental illness and science and genetics are not real.
According to trans professors, there is no such thing as biological sex/ gender. ( WTF? )
Pubescent girls have menses, and boys do not, because one has a uterus and the other does not.


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## The Pink Panther (Apr 15, 2019)

Kalishnakov said:


> B-b-but if you don't applaud the bizarre, you are labeled a 'transphobe."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm in high school right now. My school is doing a 3-part gender acceptance program in our counseling class.


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## cuddle striker (Apr 15, 2019)

I know trans people who just want to live their damn lives in peace as the gender they feel they were. they usually go through medical hell to get there, attend many therapy sessions, and deal with a crap ton of shit, for no reason. They pass the medical gates. Their gender and their sex do not match and we can do some things to assist them in dealing with that (there's more options than just surgery and hormones, but those are definitely options)

 people that aren't even trans, just dramatic fetishists who've co-opted the real difficulty of dysmorphia and stolen that language and that little bit of progress in order to: invade safe spaces for cis women, compete in sport with full testosterone against cis women, use resources and funds meant for cis women, and to throw dramatic fits continually while expecting the world to both
.
a. recognize that they are totally special and different from cis men/women
yet also
b. pretend they are the gender they're fixated on, regardless of their efforts towards that end

are horrible.

yes, I'm truscum basically. I support and care about those who have gone through the gates. 
Most medical workers do, and have similar opinions. You can plainly see the difference between someone who is relieved to live simply as a boring, everyday person once their medical issue is as best fixed as we can do, and someone who troons out for asspats and attention. 

I support real trans people and I really hate anyone that threatens the progress they've made to be accepted. AGPs are garbage.

edited for grammar and clarity.




Kalishnakov said:


> Really?  I will disagree, as it is quite obvious.
> Same clusterfuck and same MO.


oh you. you and your join date.


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## A Welsh Cake (Apr 15, 2019)

Spinster said:


> This is why many Mumsnetters are flocking over here.


If any single mums in my area want to give their child a sibling hmu. Or single dads too, I don't judge.


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## Крыса (Apr 15, 2019)

Jews created troons and kommie kommandos are infiltrating Kiwi Farms.
I like where this thread is going.


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## ProgKing of the North (Apr 15, 2019)

Kalishnakov said:


> Really?  I will disagree, as it is quite obvious.
> Same clusterfuck and same MO.


Show proof


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## Kalishnakov (Apr 15, 2019)

I don't have to.
 Just the spew fest of the same old same old from the same clusterfuck tends to show itself despite itself. 
Same MO


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## cuddle striker (Apr 15, 2019)

Kalishnakov said:


> Really?  I will disagree, as it is quite obvious.
> Same clusterfuck and same MO.





Kalishnakov said:


> I don't have to.
> Just the spew fest of the same old same old from the same clusterfuck tends to show itself despite itself.
> Same MO


go back to mom net and stop invading the forums, Kathy. we know it's you. 


so I've never heard of this site before this thread. is there any recommended link to a good chimpout or drama I can bide the wee hours with?


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## Nykysnottrans (Apr 15, 2019)

I would happily offer my unfiltered thoughts about gender critical feminists, TERFs, whatever you wanna call them, if it wasn't for all the TERFs already on this forum who brigade and downvote anyone who does criticize GCFs virtually anywhere on this forum. This kind of dogpiling behaviour is the very reason GCFs started getting banned on Twitter, but anyone who brings up this simple fact (which GCFs are in denial about) is immediately targeted by them. It's because of this kind of targeted downvoting that I stopped posting on the TERFs thread, I should have heeded the "plagued" warning. I have placed most of these TERFs on my ignore list, but they are absolutely patroling threads here on the forum to make sure that any comment criticizing GCFs is downvoted. I wish more people who have experienced this targeting from TERFs on the forum would speak out about it. SJW troons have an attitude of "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists", but so do TERFs. The horseshoe theory is definitely at work here. I would also appreciate it if GCFs would stop lying about troons being the only ones who post violent threats in the social media. Just the other day I found this tweet from a Canadian TERF: 






You know what would have happened if a troon posted a tweet saying: "I am more and more likely to kick a TERF in the face with each violation of our rights". It's the horseshoe theory at work.


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## Bum Driller (Apr 15, 2019)

Nykysnottrans said:


> I would happily offer my unfiltered thoughts about gender critical feminists, TERFs, whatever you wanna call them, if it wasn't for all the TERFs already on this forum who brigade and downvote anyone who does criticize GCFs virtually anywhere on this forum. This kind of dogpiling behaviour is the very reason GCFs started getting banned on Twitter, but anyone who brings up this simple fact (which GCFs are in denial about) is immediately targeted by them. It's because of this kind of targeted downvoting that I stopped posting on the TERFs thread, I should have heeded the "plagued" warning. I have placed most of these TERFs on my ignore list, but they are absolutely patroling threads here on the forum to make sure that any comment criticizing GCFs is downvoted. I wish more people who have experienced this targeting from TERFs on the forum would speak out about it. SJW troons have an attitude of "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists", but so do TERFs. The horseshoe theory is definitely at work here. I would also appreciate it if GCFs would stop lying about troons being the only ones who post violent threats in the social media. Just the other day I found this tweet from a Canadian TERF:
> 
> View attachment 726544
> 
> You know what would have happened if a troon posted a tweet saying: "I am more and more likely to kick a TERF in the face with each violation of our rights". It's the horseshoe theory at work.




Dude, what the living fuck are you going on?


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## Logic (Apr 15, 2019)

I'm not sure if I can really contribute much more to this discussion but the way I see it, trans individuals have as much right to express their ideology as anyone else. However the inability to accept any kind of criticism prevents the ideology from evolving in a healthy way. If the ideology can't adapt, it can not grow/survive.


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## MarvinTheParanoidAndroid (Apr 15, 2019)

I'm of the opinion that there are two camps to gender dysphoria: real OG transgender people and trendsgender people. Anyone with Tumblr experience will know that there is a huge schism between the two and the latter will call the former 'truscum' for suggesting that gender dysphoria is not only real but can be proven with brain scans and such. Not every tranny is a sociopath looking to feed off of society like a vampire, take IronLiz for instance, former TGWTG alumni and one of the few to not have a thread, and fully transitioned and got a job as a police officer to boot.


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## Tasty Tatty (Apr 15, 2019)

Spinster said:


> I was just wondering what people here think of the trans ideology?



Precisely that. That it's an ideology: something people like to believe in. It has zero scientific support and, to their sorrow, every single biological fact about gender contradicts their doctrines. 

So... there. If you're a John and want to be called a Jane, fine: I'll call you Jane. But you aint' a woman and you never will.


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## Webby's Boyfriend (Apr 16, 2019)

What is "gender critical"? Feminists are pro-female and female is a gender. It has nothing to do with "identifying" and such. Gender and sex used to be synonymes.

Originally, sex was the only word for reproductive differences, and it meant only that. Gender meant something else. In the science of biology it means a category above species and races, how animals, plants etc. are classificated, something like "kindred". In linguistics, it meant noun genders aka grammatical genders, which are like calling unanimate objects he and she, what most European languages do. Then, "sex" got a second meaning, the act of procreating, so it became a dirty word that could lead to embarrassing misunderstandings and this was why schools, administration, the Church etc. then started to use the word "gender" instead. Since then gender and sex were synonymes, until in the 1970s when some "scientists" started to claim they were not. Up until the current decade they continued to be used as synonymes, both in scientific texts about them and informal everyday speech.

In my country we have only one native word for that and of course it has to do with something biological. Now, a lot of SJWs start using the English term "gender" instead, but they re-interpretate that again so every postmodern feminist can create his own definition of that word.


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## Tragi-Chan (Apr 16, 2019)

My views on the trans thing are complicated. I guess "truscum" is probably the closest. In theory, I take the view that if a person is or thinks they are trans, that's no skin off my nose, and I'll respect their name and pronouns. It doesn't really harm me.


Spoiler: Long-ass "however"



However, what I object to is this strongly anti-intellectual have-your-cake-and-eat-it tendency of the trans movement, which demands total uncritical acceptance of anyone who claims they're trans, but is violently against anything that might lead a person to conclude that they are _not_ trans. Any research into the trans condition, or at least anything that might not come out positively, is denounced as transphobic. Anyone who detransitions is shunned. Anyone who doesn't absolutely go along with the ideology is called a Nazi. In the current political climate, where a single wrong comment can cost a person their career, this is a serious issue.

This anti-intellectual anti-critical approach is a problem for two reasons. Firstly, there's the fact that an awful lot of people who are trans seem to have other issues. Autism seems to be incredibly common, as are mental illnesses and personality disorders. We see a lot of fetishists. Just about all of the troons with threads here are unsuccessful in relationships and professionally. Clearly "becoming the person they've always been" hasn't made them happy. All transitioning has given them is an excuse for failure. The notion that maybe gender dysphoria is not the issue is simply not allowed.  More research is needed, but the trans movement rejects this in favour of a failed solution.

Secondly, transitioning is not something that should ever be undertaken lightly. Unlike most lifestyle choices, it has potentially irreversible health consequences, and the absolute best case scenario is that you'll _look_ like your preferred gender. People shouldn't go down that path unless it is absolutely certain that this, and only this, will make them happy and functional. Based on the number of post-transition trans women who have threads here, I think it's safe to say that many of them don't do that.

I don't believe children should ever be transitioned until they're old enough to consent for themselves, and then I'd want to see some really rigorous psychological examination to rule out abuse or grooming.

And as for all that genderspecial stuff like agender, genderfluid or non-binary, that's a lifestyle choice and is not entitled to any special respect. Anyone who claims they got PTSD because someone didn't refer to them as "ze" is bullshitting.


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## Sweetpeaa (May 12, 2020)

What's interesting is you don't really hear about the female to male transgenders at all. They don't act up like the other version. What's obviously irking some women is the male to female transgenders keep trying to convince them they don't really exist as a biological sex. ''Anyone can be a woman''. It is ridiculous. 

Onto ''feminism''. Contrary to popular belief feminism was much more radical in the 1970's than today. There are very few women into the feminist movement outside of social media. You could argue the status of women in some western countries has actually begun to slip back a bit.


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## Lemmingwise (May 12, 2020)

Eryngium said:


> I have a friend who had nasty gender dysphoria until they transitioned at around 18 with hormones and shit (no sex surgery tho), I think there is a massive difference between people who genuinely have gender dysphoria to the point they shave all their hair before a school dance and then actually try to kill themselves-and these people obsessed with "trans rights" who are obsessed with dead-naming and other idiotic shit



Yeah it's the same difference between someone that is bipolar and in denial and someone that is deeply bipolar and in denial. They have the same mental problem but different magnitude and the former may deal with it in slightly less destructive ways.



Sweetpeaa said:


> What's interesting is you don't really hear about the female to male transgenders at all. They don't act up like the other version. What's obviously irking some women is the male to female transgenders keep trying to convince them they don't really exist as a biological sex. ''Anyone can be a woman''. It is ridiculous.



Nobody gives a shit when you try a harder difficulty mode in life. There are no women breaking records anywhere now that they get to pretend they are men.


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## Y2K Baby (May 12, 2020)

Sweetpeaa said:


> . They don't act up like the other version


Wrong and autistic.


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## Sweetpeaa (May 12, 2020)

Y2K Baby said:


> Wrong and autistic.



Apart from Chaz Bono have you ever heard about any prominent female to male trans people in the media?


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## Y2K Baby (May 12, 2020)

Sweetpeaa said:


> Apart from Chaz Bono have you ever heard about any prominent female to male trans people in the media?


How many prominent transwomen are in media, idiot


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## Stoneheart (May 12, 2020)

SigSauer said:


> Kiwi Farms isn’t that far away from getting SomethingAwful’d or NeoGAF’d. You just wait.


STFU we have @Null and autism, we will never fall!


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## Dustlord (May 12, 2020)

I'm not a feminist by any metric, but I do think these "gender critical feminists" are more ideologically consistent than your average feminist. You can't claim to care about women or women's rights while ignoring situations where women are being harmed by men, even if those men put on a dress.


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## Sweetpeaa (May 12, 2020)

Y2K Baby said:


> How many prominent transwomen are in media, idiot



There has been reality shows on trans-women (I am jazz, I am Cait), trans-female athletes. Endless articles written about them, movies and television shows featuring them. They have influenced public policy, many countries have enacted all gender bathrooms to accommodate them. 

They are indeed overexposed in comparison to the female to males which the media doesn't really have any interest in.



Dustlord said:


> I'm not a feminist by any metric, but I do think these "gender critical feminists" are more ideologically consistent than your average feminist. You can't claim to care about women or women's rights while ignoring situations where women are being harmed by men, even if those men put on a dress.



Transgenders telling  biological females their  gender is meaningless or doesn't really exist is actually a way to demean them. They are now able to access female spaces like public washrooms, change rooms and showers and in some countries moved into female prisons.


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## Ivan Shatov (May 12, 2020)

Here's my take: I know 3 people from very different walks of life who have de-transitioned - M - F - M. Their experience was dreadful, they were afraid to leave the house while transitioned and spent a lot of time staring at themselves in mirrors to see if they look like their perfect selves. They are incredibly self-conscious, constantly worry about everything with an awkward intensity, and have very little to offer socially. I can hurt their feelings by not being happy enough when I say hello or by not calling frequently enough for them to know someone cares.

I have listened to their transitioning stories and retained nothing past the fact they felt absolutely pressured to do this by all sides. They spent a lot of time talking with groups of supporters who made them feel like this was the right decision, and they have been ostracized since they decided this was a mistake. I feel defensive on their behalf, they don't know how to stand up for themselves. My sense is they never had much of a chance for their personalities to develop, the hormones they took left them not knowing how to feel about anything, and they look at themselves as subjects of an experiment more than real people. 

One of them has attempted suicide more than once and can't get other necessary medical treatments because of the risk it will happen again. There's a good chance he will die from preventable causes before he's 40.

One of them lives in poverty and has had so many surgeries he looks like he was carved up by a butcher, the scars left his chest looking like ground beef. He sometimes bleeds randomly, he stuffs his shirt with dirty towels like maxi-pads.

One of them burned through a trust fund exploring his identity and ran several family businesses into the ground trying to create ethical / sustainable enterprises that were never going to work. He was strongly encouraged by the tranny mafia to break all relationships with his family and did so in the worst ways, getting his parents sued and his brother accused of criminal activities that ruined his career. This guy now lives like a pariah and it's not because he had implants.

I'd be a lot more accepting of trans-people were it not for the fact so many people want to pathologize criticism of the culture. I keep thinking about the Mark Twain quote on censorship, it's like being told you can't have a steak because a baby can't handle it. Honest and open discussion about the train wrecks needs to happen. If someone transitions and can't leave the house because the social anxiety is consuming them, that's not success. More importantly - it's not society's fault, it's the community of zealots that surround them. Too many fuckwits pretending to be victims so no one will acknowledge the downsides.


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## Y2K Baby (May 12, 2020)

Sweetpeaa said:


> There has been reality shows on trans-women (I am jazz, I am Cait), trans-female athletes. Endless articles written about them, movies and television shows featuring them. They have influenced public policy, many countries have enacted all gender bathrooms to accommodate them.
> 
> They are indeed overexposed in comparison to the female to males which the media doesn't really have any interest in.


There's way more, stupid. It's not "overexposure" if it's proportionate.

 FTM's are crazy too is the point.


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## Dustlord (May 12, 2020)

Sweetpeaa said:


> Transgenders telling  biological females their  gender is meaningless or doesn't really exist is actually a way to demean them. They are now able to access female spaces like public washrooms, change rooms and showers and in some countries moved into female prisons.


I think we are in agreement there. Generally speaking these places are gender segregated for a good reason, and I'm not of the opinion that simply identifying as something makes you that thing.


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## Slap47 (May 13, 2020)

Dustlord said:


> I think we are in agreement there. Generally speaking these places are gender segregated for a good reason, and I'm not of the opinion that simply identifying as something makes you that thing.



This "separate but equal" doctrine for genders will likely become a Supreme Court issue in the coming decades.



Sweetpeaa said:


> What's interesting is you don't really hear about the female to male transgenders at all. They don't act up like the other version. What's obviously irking some women is the male to female transgenders keep trying to convince them they don't really exist as a biological sex. ''Anyone can be a woman''. It is ridiculous.
> 
> Onto ''feminism''. Contrary to popular belief feminism was much more radical in the 1970's than today. There are very few women into the feminist movement outside of social media. You could argue the status of women in some western countries has actually begun to slip back a bit.



Alot of this could due to how society idealizes the genders. The ideal man is kind, stoic and hard working. The ideal woman revels in drama and is the center of attention. She is comically empowered and in your face about it. 

This "become a woman" stuff was created to combat gender roles. Now those old school feminists are eating their words.

Gender being a social construct that is separate from sex somehow lead to sex changes being justified...  I just don't get it.


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## Dustlord (May 13, 2020)

Slap47 said:


> This "separate but equal" doctrine for genders will likely become a Supreme Court issue in the coming decades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only people that seriously care about segregated bathrooms or whatever are transgenders...and they're maybe 1% of the population? Normal people are comfortable using the appropriate spaces for their gender.


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## Tismguide (May 18, 2020)

The Pink Panther said:


> I'm in high school right now. My school is doing a 3-part gender acceptance program in our counseling class.


What's it like? How are you and your fellow kids taking it? I always alternate between worrying about ideologues indoctrinating The Kids and remembering D.A.R.E. etc and the important role it played in me realizing how full of shit the war on drugs was, how adults are just incoherent on certain topics,  and thinking The Kids will be alright.


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## The Pink Panther (May 19, 2020)

Tismguide said:


> What's it like? How are you and your fellow kids taking it? I always alternate between worrying about ideologues indoctrinating The Kids and remembering D.A.R.E. etc and the important role it played in me realizing how full of shit the war on drugs was, how adults are just incoherent on certain topics,  and thinking The Kids will be alright.


Sheit. This was a fucking year ago. My last year of hs, lol. Basically, they showed us pamphlets and guides to all the LGBTQ+ terms or whatever. It didn't go that far, but it went far enough around the AIIP point which is kinda shit. The thing that they forced down most was the whole "personal pronouns" shit which I don't like.

From what I remember, most of the other kids didn't care about it. I didn't care about it much either, but I kind of tried to argue back at my counselor, but meh, I ceased. At the end of the day, I'm a minority (figuratively and literally) and I don't think students trust the authority of another student, so I kept my guard down.


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## HonestJohn2376 (May 19, 2020)

We already have gender neutral safe space bathrooms.





Slap47 said:


> This "separate but equal" doctrine for genders will likely become a Supreme Court issue in the coming decades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would say gender is a social category that often but does not always overlap with sex. Sex is a biological category that is based on chromosomes, gonads, and secondary sexual characteristics. Gender is a category a society puts you in depending on how that society perceives your sex. I say "a society", because while most societies share similar broad strokes about the man and woman genders, there are differences in minutia. One example is if a society recognizes other genders as a possibility.

For most people, sex and gender easily go together like they are the same thing. But not always. There are people with XY chromosomes but have bodies that do not react to testosterone to produce male gonads and other characteristics. These people look like women and act like women in almost every way. So while you could say these people are of the male sex (if you strictly look only at chromosomes at least), it would be absurd to put them into the man gender category. They have XY chromosomes but are women.  

As for the "separate but equal" issue, I personally think it best if mainstream society officially recognizes three genders: man, woman, and other. There is no need to eat alphabet soup in accounting for 72 genders. People should just recognize that an "other" category exists and accommodate for it if necessary. Many small businesses already have unisex bathrooms anyway. I do not see how huge enterprises building an extra bathroom (or just building unisex bathrooms in the first place) should be a problem.



MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:


> I'm of the opinion that there are two camps to gender dysphoria: real OG transgender people and trendsgender people. Anyone with Tumblr experience will know that there is a huge schism between the two and the latter will call the former 'truscum' for suggesting that gender dysphoria is not only real but can be proven with brain scans and such. Not every tranny is a sociopath looking to feed off of society like a vampire, take IronLiz for instance, former TGWTG alumni and one of the few to not have a thread, and fully transitioned and got a job as a police officer to boot.



I agree. Gender dysphoria is a serious medical condition, and transitioning is medical treatment meant to treat a condition. Transitioning is a very serious decision that has lasting effects on the body, so it should never be done lightly. Transitioning should not be an ideological prop for transtrenders and other LARPing dipshits.  

Also, congratulations to IronLiz.


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## TaimuRadiu (May 19, 2020)

"Gender critical" has done its job to break down the gender barriers between sexes. What happened wasn't something to benefit women; what happened was something that benefitted largely mentally ill people (and the handful of actual transsexuals out there, who before all this probably would have been just happy being gay).


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## Slap47 (May 19, 2020)

Dustlord said:


> The only people that seriously care about segregated bathrooms or whatever are transgenders...and they're maybe 1% of the population? Normal people are comfortable using the appropriate spaces for their gender.



And transgender people have alot of influence.  People want to support policies that are best for them and will fight for whatever they want. 

Hell, they even defended Yaniv when she attacked ethnic minorities for quite a while.


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## SigSauer (May 19, 2020)

Feminism is cultural marxism. I hate it in western countries. But I think it can be of use in destabilizing our enemies, namely those filthy Russians and the middle east. For example, here's some based Egyptian feminists shitting and smearing period blood on the (((ISIS))) flag, meanwhile in America and Europe, feminists are shouting Allahu Akbar and supporting ISIS. So it really is a double-edged sword, I'd say.



Spoiler


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## Lonely Grave (May 19, 2020)

If gender pronouns and states of gender outside of male or female assist in helping the mentally challenged and/or deranged cope with the world, I will oblige. But if they dare force and enshrine it as official social policy, then I will resist it with all my strength. Such trivial divisions are distracting to the real problems in the world.


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## Dustlord (May 21, 2020)

Slap47 said:


> And transgender people have alot of influence.  People want to support policies that are best for them and will fight for whatever they want.
> 
> Hell, they even defended Yaniv when she attacked ethnic minorities for quite a while.


They have more influence right now because people still buy into the "THEYRE JUST LIKE YOU AND ME" stuff, and as they get more public exposure, people are going to see that this largely isn't true. I've noticed "gender critical feminism" or terf becoming more popular in recent years than 5 or 10 years ago, so that would signal a shift even among the leftists. The right wing has always been REEEing about them.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (May 21, 2020)

Lonely Grave said:


> If gender pronouns and states of gender outside of male or female assist in helping the mentally challenged and/or deranged cope with the world, I will oblige. But if they dare force and enshrine it as official social policy, then I will resist it with all my strength. Such trivial divisions are distracting to the real problems in the world.



It's ironic because the "i am a special genderkin" shit only hurts their cause. If it's just a tranny, whatever, I will do my best to respect your pronouns if I feel like it. But if you have a beard and put forth no effort to pass, I ain't calling you a woman. And I ain't calling you anything but her/he/they


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## Null (May 28, 2021)

Moving this to the Beauty Parlor's Off-Topic per a community request.


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## Tranimal Farm (Jun 6, 2021)

As much as I love seeing milkworthy troons I mostly just feel sorry for the trans people who seem to mostly have their heads on straight. Particularly the old school transexuals who were getting on relatively fine before the whole gender mania happened and who seem to largely resent TRA's (trans radical activists) for bringing them unwanted attention or for turning them into political props that they can use as a token minority to further their own ends.


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## Wodwosio (Oct 12, 2021)

How exactly does one even define 'radical feminism' anymore? I can't seem to get a real definition on what this entails except that they're women who don't like gender stereotypes being wielded as a cudgel by bathroom-stalking perverts; Any sort of paeons to Second Wave Feminism seem to be retroactive.


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## Wodwosio (Oct 12, 2021)

Eryngium said:


> I have a friend who had nasty gender dysphoria until they transitioned at around 18 with hormones and shit (no sex surgery tho), I think there is a massive difference between people who genuinely have gender dysphoria to the point they shave all their hair before a school dance and then actually try to kill themselves-and these people obsessed with "trans rights" who are obsessed with dead-naming and other idiotic shit.



Congratulations to your friend for successfully transitioning from a man into a weirdo


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## AMHOLIO (Oct 12, 2021)

Back in the day Radfems were women super fucking angry at men to rhe point where they want to become _greater_ than men in social standing.  The TERF thread and the TERF reddit still show these types of women.  There's a good chance that if the Radfem subreddit in general is supportive of trans women that several beta males and those hurt by other males in their life have flocked there to one up their old gender.

However, most "radfems" on the internet are.... just called that since TERF is so easy to type and marks you as a sinner easier than transphobe.  Make no mistake, "TERF" radfems and radical femminist are still two separate things as most accused of being a "TERF" just want equal footing and respect from the opposite sex.  I'll be a fake Terf if it means I can express my thoughts and opinons on gender clearly without being attacked, just debated and questioned respectfully.


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## Kiwi & Cow (Oct 12, 2021)

TBFH Radical Feminists are already misandrists, so then that also makes TERFs misandrists, except they consider troons to be the gender they were given at birth unlike radfems who tend to lean toward the progressive outlook on any issue and thus they gobble the "transwomen are women" narrative. 
I'm far from being a fan of those people.


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## Hoi Polloi (Oct 14, 2021)

I believe gender dysphoria is a real mental illness that people suffer from, and it's possible that some who don't respond to treatment with therapy and medication might benefit from going through the whole rigamarole of hormones and surgery, but the number of those people is very small. The majority of trannies you see on the internet are either fetishists or people with non-dysphoria mental illnesses who've been convinced that trooning out will solve their problems and it never does. "Trans children" are victims of grooming and sexual abuse 100% of the time, and pronoun politics is mind games.


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## catmasterj (Oct 14, 2021)

My take on this is I don't give a Fuck. 

If me calling you him or her makes you feel at ease than I'm happy to help. 

But I'm sure most of these who say they're  trans aren't. Just a bunch of attention seekers. 

If you look like a guy and refer to you as one I am not going to apologise.


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## Super Guido (Oct 16, 2021)

Kiwi & Cow said:


> TBFH Radical Feminists are already misandrists, so then that also makes TERFs misandrists, except they consider troons to be the gender they were given at birth unlike radfems who tend to lean toward the progressive outlook on any issue and thus they gobble the "transwomen are women" narrative.
> I'm far from being a fan of those people.


What? Radfems don't think trans women are women - they think trans-identified males are just autogynephiliacs who often want to force lesbians to have sex with them. On tumblr at least, there are a lot of trans advocates who use 'terf' in place of 'lesbian' because, in the view of pornsick men, those goddamned dykes won't get over their "genital preference".


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## BigStix (Oct 24, 2021)

crocodilian said:


> Transexuality is a subversive means of making a country's natives weak, emotionally unstable and totally reliant on medication, thus making it easier for them to be replaced.
> 
> An overwhelming majority of them are white; virtually none of them are immigrants. Transexuals themselves have over twice the rate of mental illness as their non-trans peers, and roughly 41% of trans people end up killing themselves (and even more attempt it.) The amount of transexual children has been doubling annually, thanks in part to changes in law that allow parents to reassign their child's gender without their consent, but (as cited above) the only kids who seem to undergo this with any regularity are white. Combine this with less natives having kids and you start to see why transexuality being heavily pushed throughout the media comes off as immediately suspicious.
> 
> ...


Lol. Take your meds, Mark.


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