# Illegal Immigrants and you



## Chiang Kai-shek (Sep 7, 2018)

For starters, I am only talking about immigrants who came into the country without going through the proper legal channels. I'm talking illegal immigrants. But are they really that big of a problem? Some people say no, some say yes. According to what I've read, the vast majority of economists believe that illegal immigration is super beneficial to the economy. But what your opinions and some facts that support your beliefs?

*The wikipedia page is just to have a collection of pro-illegals sources in one place. They have a fuck ton of citations for their claims. For more info click here.


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## Elwood P. Dowd (Sep 7, 2018)

I'm sure Mollie Tibbets and Kate Steinle found the respective illegals who enriched ended their lives to be "super beneficial."


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## Y2K Baby (Sep 7, 2018)

PortsideDave said:


> believe that illegal immigration is super beneficial to the economy


Because it's used for slavery, lol. Regardless, the benefits of it won't last for long as massive waves perpetually flood in- also, it's absolutely shit for the country they're leaving.


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## Inklings (Sep 7, 2018)

I'd like to take a moment to ask a question in regards to this. Do illegals pay taxes? I know it sounds like a dumb question and you would think that obviously they wouldn't but is that really the case? Because I've found some surprising things that have said before that illegals do actually pay taxes either through an ITIN or a Social Security number that isn't theirs. I'm not advocating for a looser stance on immigration I'm just curious.


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## JustStopDude (Sep 7, 2018)

I say America just deports all unemployed....citizen or otherwise.


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## OhGoy (Sep 7, 2018)

Illegals are great for scummy business owners. Why spare a fraction of profits on better working conditions when you can get foreigners who you can easily manipulate?


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## Red Hood (Sep 7, 2018)

Hiring illegals basically means you can pay them less than minimum wage with no OSHA oversight, and if they get uppity you can threaten to report them. So it is, as @Y2K Baby said, pretty much akin to slavery.


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## 1864897514651 (Sep 7, 2018)

If a law says that illegal immigrants are to be deported, and such a law is not enforced, then why is the pretense there? The problem is twofold if the rule of law is not upheld. Firstly, the country itself debases its own rule of law into obscurity. And then more importantly, the citizens of said country start breaking laws until they are stopped or until no laws remain.

But the problem with this really has very little to do with illegal immigrants. The macroeconomics of the global economy has given rise to truths that are stranger than fiction. I believe that the systematic importation and exportation of immigrants is the result of an agenda larger than 'men seeking opportunity'. Whatever the truth is, the kleptocratic oligarchs that are running the governments around the world have profoundly limited critical thinking abilities, so the truth has to be extremely limited in its comprehension. I have a couple of ideas for why illegal immigration has been turned into a commodity, but all of my ideas have absolutely nothing to do with stimulating economic growth, which is what most people think of when they rationalize cheap labor from immigrants. Kleptocratic oligarchs do not think like that.


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## Unseemly and Feral (Sep 7, 2018)

Inklings said:


> I'd like to take a moment to ask a question in regards to this. Do illegals pay taxes? I know it sounds like a dumb question and you would think that obviously they wouldn't but is that really the case? Because I've found some surprising things that have said before that illegals do actually pay taxes either through an ITIN or a Social Security number that isn't theirs. I'm not advocating for a looser stance on immigration I'm just curious.


Illegals do definitely pay sales taxes. I’ve heard of payroll taxes also being deducted from their salaries. 
Part of the reason illegals are in demand from the employer side is obvious, but the low wages from the jobs illegals take deter domestic workers from competing for them, especially something like fruit picking in CA.
 On the whole, I doubt most of them cause trouble. But enforcement still has to happen because a broken system informs criminals that they can operate with impunity.


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## AnOminous (Sep 7, 2018)

The Shadow said:


> Hiring illegals basically means you can pay them less than minimum wage with no OSHA oversight, and if they get uppity you can threaten to report them. So it is, as @Y2K Baby said, pretty much akin to slavery.



They need to enforce the actual laws.  Employ illegals, go to prison.  Better yet, get thrown into general population with the very illegals now serving time themselves who used to work for you.  That should apply extra for politicians who get caught employing illegal domestic workers.


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## BeanBidan (Sep 7, 2018)

They're really annoying tbqh.
Ex. Mexicans talk and laugh way too fucking loud it's hard to sleep for work. Their music is shit too.


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## Y2K Baby (Sep 7, 2018)

BeanBidan said:


> Ex. Mexicans talk and laugh way too fucking loud it's hard to sleep for work. Their music is shit too.


THIS. Live in the south and try not be racist. You can't. These are the real issues here.


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## Chiang Kai-shek (Sep 7, 2018)

Inklings said:


> I'd like to take a moment to ask a question in regards to this. Do illegals pay taxes? I know it sounds like a dumb question and you would think that obviously they wouldn't but is that really the case? Because I've found some surprising things that have said before that illegals do actually pay taxes either through an ITIN or a Social Security number that isn't theirs. I'm not advocating for a looser stance on immigration I'm just curious.


I've seen this a lot too. I think it's mostly paying shit like sales taxes. There were some links on badeconomics that say illegals pay taxes.

Also more food for thought: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/broo...-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/
Opinions on the article?


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## Providence (Sep 7, 2018)

I think the question is irrelevant - the law provides a method for immigrating.  If an individual begins their journey by breaking our laws,  that doesn't sound conducive to integration.     


Do it legally,  or don't do it. I don't care if they all turn out to be scholars, it doesn't matter.  Follow the fuckin rules.


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## Rand /pol/ (Sep 7, 2018)

If you're a boomer farmer who wants cheap crop pickers or a suburban couple who wants there roof fixed for cheap yes.


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## Piss Clam (Sep 7, 2018)

The Shadow said:


> Hiring illegals basically means you can pay them less than minimum wage with no OSHA oversight, and if they get uppity you can threaten to report them. So it is, as @Y2K Baby said, pretty much akin to slavery.



When you boil it down the people who support open borders are supporting human trafficking.

There are people flying from Africa into Brazil who then take a long trek to cross the US border.

There is an area between Panama and Columbia that is very hard to transverse. They turn to human traffickers to cross via the ocean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darién_Gap

It is something like 90% of people trying to cross over the US border use traffickers.

When you get into the US as an illegal you are also subject to abuse by employers and criminal elements in your own community. Do you think these illegals are going to call the police?


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## IV 445 (Sep 7, 2018)

It wasn’t me but somebody on here said they were very suspicious of their neighboring apartment. They thought there might have been human trafficking going on.

I have never been directly affected by illegals, no, if that’s what you’re asking. But it matters a helluva lot what part of the US you’re talking about. They are almost nonexistent in some states. In other areas, they virtually run the show.


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## Disgruntled Pupper (Sep 7, 2018)

PortsideDave said:


> I've seen this a lot too. I think it's mostly paying shit like sales taxes. There were some links on badeconomics that say illegals pay taxes.
> 
> Also more food for thought: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/broo...-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/
> Opinions on the article?




I'm going to powerlevel a bit here.

I grew up in a place with a lot of illegals. I also have a family member that works in HR. She worked at a number of different companies, a lot of them construction related, some hospitality, some big box type stores. She would routinely get applications from non-illegals, and she was absolutely flooded when the recession hit. You know what nearly every company instructed her to do with those resumes? Throw them in the trash. 

Where I grew up there were a lot of jobs that were "things Americans won't do"- things like cashier workers, waitstaff, secretaries, even  things like doctor and dental assistants have slipped into that range. And yet when I travel about 200 miles north or east, suddenly Americans, mostly white, do all of these jobs. It completely boggled my mind to find out that in most parts of the country being a grocery store cashier or a Starbucks barista does not fall under that umbrella of "things Americans just won't do", and at the ease that my non-illegal peers had in getting those types of jobs in their teenage years. So what magical barrier am I crossing where one part of the country is too lazy and uninterested to do all of these things, and yet the other half is?

The only area that the "Americans don't want to do these jobs" mantra has any drop of truth is the farming industry. It's true, Americans don't want to pick fruit and operate heavy machinery and expose themselves to chemicals- for $3.50 an hour. And unfortunately just raising the pay rate will not automatically solve the issues. Americans have been pushed out of that part of the the agricultural system we have no idea what those jobs are like, or what kind of situation works for them. How is your local highschool or college kid supposed to know that he can travel to Bumfuck, Texas, share a shitty trailer with a couple other guys, work a farm for a couple months, and come back with a couple thousand saved up when it isn't advertised anywhere and when no one in his friends group or his family has ever done it?


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## Jeff Heaney (Sep 7, 2018)

BeanBidan said:


> They're really annoying tbqh.
> Ex. Mexicans talk and laugh way too fucking loud it's hard to sleep for work. Their music is shit too.



I guess that's the reason they're always exhausted


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## millais (Sep 7, 2018)

The Shadow said:


> Hiring illegals basically means you can pay them less than minimum wage with no OSHA oversight, and if they get uppity you can threaten to report them. So it is, as @Y2K Baby said, pretty much akin to slavery.


Also illegal contractors are more than happy to work on a jobsite without worker's comp insurance, so that represents a huge cost savings. For construction bids, our illegals are always able to undercut the proper contractors by as much as 40%, and a lot of that has to do with the absence of worker's comp.


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## Crunchy Leaf (Sep 7, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> They need to enforce the actual laws.  Employ illegals, go to prison.  Better yet, get thrown into general population with the very illegals now serving time themselves who used to work for you.  That should apply extra for politicians who get caught employing illegal domestic workers.


yeah deporting people won't work until there's a reason for people to stop coming. it's like arresting hookers. 

my friend's dad used to be an illegal and now he's not but he hates illegals and, that's dumb
(it's okay tho 'cause he's white)


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## oldTireWater (Sep 7, 2018)

There are a LOT of Mexicans (I don't mean Hispanic) where I live. Noticeably more than there were 25 years ago. The immigrants themselves aren't that bad, they tend not to be assholes, and they work. 

But where they have a significant population they drag everything down. The more there are they less inclined they are to learn English, to the point where you'll have people in customer service positions that don't know the language. They pull down property values bad. Fucking carnicerias everywhere. Shitty old trucks with every piece of Autozone "chrome" imaginable. Oompa-loompa music. Their culture is "primitive". 

Their children is where it starts to get genuinely bad. They don't have the immigrant work ethic.

Still, I'll take Mexican illegals over southern niggers ANY day. Any day! No comparison at all.


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## ForgedBlades (Sep 7, 2018)

I worked an internship at a quasi-agriculture related business this year and got to know a lot of Mexicans, many who were on guest worker visas. I'm sure that there were a handful of illegals as well, as it's pretty difficult to stay 100% above board no matter how hard you try. Just a few observations.


The majority were very, very suspicious of me. I'm not sure if they thought I was an undercover ICE agent, or they thought I was coming for their job, but there were quite a few who would deliberately avoid me.
They will lie and say that they don't speak English when they damn well do.
There are some jobs that white people simply won't do for minimum wage. It's easier for them to just suck Uncle Sam's teats dry. I saw probably a dozen white people doing general labor who would just simply stop showing up after a week. One guy didn't come back after lunch break on his first day. And yes, I know that they should """""simply""""" increase wages, but I really don't feel like getting into an argument about the economics of agriculture. The point is, they are reliable.
Many of the ones I talked to on guest visas hated illegals with a passion because they were ruining it for the people who came here the right way.
Jumex is delicious.


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## CWCchange (Sep 7, 2018)

It's not just illegals that are a problem. It's also those who received amnesty, hold green cards and aren't deported when committing crimes, and of course, DACAs and anchor babies.


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## wellthathappened (Sep 7, 2018)

Depends on context. If the illegals are merely filling a needed role and then going back to their country of origin then I really don't care. If the illegals are looking for a handout from the welfare state then I begin to have an issue.


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## The Great Chandler (Sep 7, 2018)

ForgedBlades said:


> Jumex is delicious.


Cheap too and comes in other flavors.

On topic though, I think we should strengthen our borders while fixing the immigration system as well. As for the illegals in the country, they should forego a test for citizenship or something of the like.


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## Zaragoza (Sep 8, 2018)

Disgruntled Pupper said:


> I'm going to powerlevel a bit here.
> 
> I grew up in a place with a lot of illegals. I also have a family member that works in HR. She worked at a number of different companies, a lot of them construction related, some hospitality, some big box type stores. She would routinely get applications from non-illegals, and she was absolutely flooded when the recession hit. You know what nearly every company instructed her to do with those resumes? Throw them in the trash.
> 
> ...


Lol, when the media was being all hyped up about the migrant caravan and the crying migrant girl, CNN did a cover piece where they actually traveled to the Mexican American border in South Texas and talked to a rancher there and he said something along the lines that migrants are killing any opportunity for a honest living working low wage jobs and how they exploit government assistance with the fake addresses and stupid shit like that, and keep in mind, the rancher himself is Mexican American like most people living near the border, the CNN reporter were expecting the people who live right across the border to lambast Trump but it was the polar opposite. You know who hates illegal immigrants more than anyone else? Other Mexican Americans.


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Sep 8, 2018)

There was a clip in a video I was watching where a bunch of Latin Americans were interviewed in Florida. They all said that they support Trump and wanted illegal immigrants to be looked at more closely.

Also good luck trying to get construction work when so many companies hire illegal immigrant workers to do that work for less.


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## millais (Sep 8, 2018)

One of the bad things about hiring illegal contractors for big jobs is that you kind of just have a hole in your books when the IRS or insurance adjuster comes around asking for all of your contractors' W-9s. It's pretty easy to sweep under the rug when filing taxes, but if you ever seriously audited it might be some hot water situation. I guess you can always feign ignorance or incompetence, though.


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## Just Some Other Guy (Sep 8, 2018)

Then-fiance was denied a visitor's visa because the US was concerned she would overstay her visa on purpose. So yes, illegals make a bad name for people trying to do things legit.


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## Replicant Sasquatch (Sep 10, 2018)

I generally don't get all worked up over the presence of illegals.  Yes, they should go through the legal channels but most are just desperate people very wisely fleeing a shit hole country for something better.  I'm not cold-hearted enough to say "lol fuck em" because of autistic tribalism but at the same time I don't lose sleep over deportations.  "Don't sneak into our country" is a reasonable request.  

My main interest in border security is keeping out the drug runners and jihadists.  Juan the Field Worker is not a threat.  Tuco the Cartel Enforcer and his pal North Tower Nahim certainly are though.


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## Leadlight_ (Sep 10, 2018)

> According to what I've read, the vast majority of economists believe that illegal immigration is super beneficial to the economy.



Oh yes, because economists are _never _horribly wrong.

Brass tacks; Illegal Immigration is harmful for the country. It completely undermines legal immigration for starters, drains public funds, increases taxes, takes jobs from Americans, causes unnecessary political strife, and degrades the very principles that the United States of America has held since its inception.


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## spurger king (Sep 11, 2018)

PortsideDave said:


> illegal immigration is super beneficial to the economy



beneficial to the economy != beneficial to most average people. It's disingenuous to argue that most Americans are too weak or lazy to do manuel labor, because an American will do pretty much anything if you pay him enough. I've always found it weird how lefties and soyim are in favor of immigration policies that benefit the rich, hurt the working class, and end up importing lots of people with very traditional views on social issues.


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## Douglas Reynholm (Sep 11, 2018)

Economically speaking they can be beneficial as can't access welfare most places, pay sales tax and work under rate without employee benefits. But they take jobs, avoid other taxes and are off grid. Turning a blind eye is bad though, shouldn't be encouraged. Leads to them getting fucked like these cocklepickers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25914594


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## CWCchange (Sep 18, 2018)

oldTireWater said:


> Still, I'll take Mexican illegals over southern niggers ANY day. Any day! No comparison at all.


White Hispanics, sure. Castizos and some mestizos, maybe. Afro-Hispanics and/or indios, hell fucking no!


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## Medicated (Sep 18, 2018)

wellthathappened said:


> If the illegals are merely filling a needed role and then going back to their country of origin then I really don't care



That sentence doesn't make sense to me.  If an illegal is filling a needed role then why aren't legal immigrants or anyone else doing it?  Maybe what the company needs is illegal?


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## wellthathappened (Sep 18, 2018)

Medicated said:


> That sentence doesn't make sense to me.  If an illegal is filling a needed role then why aren't legal immigrants or anyone else doing it?  Maybe what the company needs is illegal?



Because the welfare state is providing an incentive for an American citizen to not do the job.


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## wylfım (Sep 18, 2018)

wellthathappened said:


> Because the welfare state is providing an incentive for an American citizen to not do the job.


And also keep in mind Americans are super priveleged and won't do a lot of jobs for cheap prices. Who would pick fruit or work at McDonald's for minimum wage? Add in the extremely high quality of life people expect here that you cant afford at minimum wife, and you have a bunch of illegals doing jobs that Americans wont.
That being said, I still think we should work on solutions that dont involve letting people mass-immigrate with absolutely no background check or motivation to assimilate. Letting illegals work in agriculture is like putting a bandage on a stab wound.


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## wellthathappened (Sep 18, 2018)

wylfım said:


> And also keep in mind Americans are super priveleged and won't do a lot of jobs for cheap prices. Who would pick fruit or work at McDonald's for minimum wage? Add in the extremely high quality of life people expect here that you cant afford at minimum wife, and you have a bunch of illegals doing jobs that Americans wont.
> That being said, I still think we should work on solutions that dont involve letting people mass-immigrate with absolutely no background check or motivation to assimilate. Letting illegals work in agriculture is like putting a bandage on a stab wound.



Maybe it isn't a stab wound. Maybe it is herpes, which never goes away.


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## wylfım (Sep 18, 2018)

wellthathappened said:


> Maybe it isn't a stab wound. Maybe it is herpes, which never goes away.


If you don't look for a cure, you'll never find one. Just because we don't know of a solution today doesn't mean one doesn't exist. Honestly, the majority of the problem stems from the fact that California has two very distinct classes of people— the farmers and low-educated workers, and the silicon valley tech gurus. They're so close to each other that it serves as motivation for the workers to strive for increasing their education so they, too can be rich, causing them to in turn leave for increased opportunities. Which is all fine and dandy, until _all_ of them move away and there's now no one left to tend to the multi-billion-dollar agricultural industry— hence the illegals. In somewhere like Bumfuck, West Virginia, on the other hand, people aren't really exposed to a way of life any different than their own, so they just continue on doing what they traditionally do. It's not a pretty lifestyle, but at least things are relatively stable and sustainable.


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## Medicated (Sep 19, 2018)

wellthathappened said:


> Because the welfare state is providing an incentive for an American citizen to not do the job.



I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.


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## This+ (Sep 19, 2018)

Inklings said:


> I'd like to take a moment to ask a question in regards to this. Do illegals pay taxes? I know it sounds like a dumb question and you would think that obviously they wouldn't but is that really the case? Because I've found some surprising things that have said before that illegals do actually pay taxes either through an ITIN or a Social Security number that isn't theirs. I'm not advocating for a looser stance on immigration I'm just curious.


It's a good question because I guarantee 95% of Americans don't even know the people they're so opposed to. I can't speak for every single illegal immigrant but they pay income taxes, like everyone else.  However, they can't claim a majority of benefits or what everyone in this thread boils down to "welfare." So essentially, they're paying into a system they can't benefit from, which is a net positive for Americans if you ask me. 

I said this in a different thread but try getting an illegal qualified for SNAP or Medicare, see what happens.


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## wellthathappened (Sep 19, 2018)

Medicated said:


> I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.



Fake news.


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## CWCchange (Sep 19, 2018)

wylfım said:


> And also keep in mind Americans are super priveleged and won't do a lot of jobs for cheap prices. Who would pick fruit or work at McDonald's for minimum wage? Add in the extremely high quality of life people expect here that you cant afford at minimum wife, and you have a bunch of illegals doing jobs that Americans wont.


The issue is such employers developed the assumption any native white or black willing to do a job like picking fruit would want better wages, even though those jobs could be done by young adults and would build character. It changed after the Great Depression and into WWII with the Bracero program which regulated contract migrant labor, and anyone who tried to illegally stay in the country were deported. It continued to 1964, but after Hart-Celler a year later, which was never even enforced properly, as well as Simpson–Mazzoli in 1986, you can see why we're in this shit.



Medicated said:


> I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.


Yes, but combining smaller welfare payments with McJob wages makes it sort of comparable. In a way, companies like Walmart are subsidized by the government to pay employees. Hell, Walmart also admitted a chunk of its profit comes from EBT.



This+ said:


> It's a good question because I guarantee 95% of Americans don't even know the people they're so opposed to. I can't speak for every single illegal immigrant but they pay income taxes, like everyone else. However, they can't claim a majority of benefits or what everyone in this thread boils down to "welfare." So essentially, they're paying into a system they can't benefit from, which is a net positive for Americans if you ask me.


Except where does the tax revenue go? Down the toilet, from lining the pockets of politicians who support such bullshit, to "educating" anchor babies in our overcrowded public schools. The argument illegals are a net positive because they might pay taxes is as retarded as claiming thieves are good for the economy because they buy stuff with stolen money.


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## Medicated (Sep 19, 2018)

CWCchange said:


> Yes, but combining smaller welfare payments with McJob wages makes it sort of comparable. In a way, companies like Walmart are subsidized by the government to pay employees. Hell, Walmart also admitted a chunk of its profit comes from EBT.



Even so, I thought other countries had much cushier systems, especially if you were completely unemployed.


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## This+ (Sep 19, 2018)

CWCchange said:


> Except where does the tax revenue go? Down the toilet, from lining the pockets of politicians who support such bullshit, to "educating" anchor babies in our overcrowded public schools. The argument illegals are a net positive because they might pay taxes is as exceptional as claiming thieves are good for the economy because they buy stuff with stolen money.



So how is medicare funded? How is the gigantic defense budget funded? George Soros can't possibly have all that cash to continue doing this forever! Arguing that tax money going to corrupt/ineffective policies as reason to dismiss the net positive of illegals paying income tax (again, without getting anything in return) is as retarded as sticking your nose in a pine tree trunk and saying you can't see the forest. 

I hope you also realize that IRS doesn't give a shit about whether or not taxes are paid by upstanding citizens, crooks, and/or illegal immigrants. They just care about whether or not they get their sweet, sweet tax money that needs to get paid. So no, it's not a "might," but a definite.


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## CaptainuWu (Sep 19, 2018)

I personally have nothing against illegal immigrants, but I think that leniency over the matter is a huge security threat. Undocumented people are -to an extent- invisible to the government. Many probably use falsified information. Just imagine getting into a car accident with an illegal immigrant who has no car insurance; it'd be a nightmare.


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## wylfım (Sep 20, 2018)

This+ said:


> I hope you also realize that IRS doesn't give a shit about whether or not taxes are paid by upstanding citizens, crooks, and/or illegal immigrants. They just care about whether or not they get their sweet, sweet tax money that needs to get paid. So no, it's not a "might," but a definite.


Here's the thing, its hard to get someone to pay taxes if you have no idea they exist. Yes they pay sales tax, but that's not as significant as things like income tax and social security. And keep in mind that they tend to live with a lower quality of life, hence they buy less things and pay less sales tax. Sure they might not be able to claim benefits from the system, but if anything that's a moral argument against illegals, since they're being forced to remain at a sub-par standard of living.


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## CWCchange (Sep 20, 2018)

This+ said:


> So how is medicare funded? How is the gigantic defense budget funded? George Soros can't possibly have all that cash to continue doing this forever! Arguing that tax money going to corrupt/ineffective policies as reason to dismiss the net positive of illegals paying income tax (again, without getting anything in return) is as exceptional as sticking your nose in a pine tree trunk and saying you can't see the forest.


THEY'LL PAY OUR PENSIONS! Where else did I hear that argument?


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## Just Some Other Guy (Sep 20, 2018)

They also send to send a lot of money back to Mexico, which I've always viewed as money leeched away from being spent/ invested here in our economy. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


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## Commander Keen (Sep 20, 2018)

I’ve seen too many Mexican nationals (read: illegals) raping and murdering to say illegal immigration isn’t a problem with any amount of intellectual honesty. 

So it should be shut down. Because it will save lives. Sorry, they’re on another team and I don’t have to help them out especially since I would get shit on in Mexico if I pulled the same crap and they wouldn’t just deport me. I’d be in the federales’ prison playing hide the beaner burrito or worse.


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## This+ (Sep 20, 2018)

CWCchange said:


> I have no actual rebuttals, here is a shitty meme of something that's completely different from the illegal immigrant situation an entire Atlantic Ocean away.



Thanks, I guess.


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## wylfım (Sep 20, 2018)

This+ said:


> Thanks, I guess.


Both involve an influx of 3rd world migrants who don't assimilate well, and only move to the country because money.
No, it seems pretty similar to me.


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## Your Weird Fetish (Sep 20, 2018)

Medicated said:


> I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.


Health and human services plus social security are the biggest parts of the US government's expenditures. So while that may be true, it's still not saying a lot. All the western world has a gigantic welfare safety net.


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## White bubblegum (Sep 28, 2018)

I'm not gonna write a long paragraph because tl;dr illegal immigration is bad for everyone involved, but what do some of you guys have against mexican music? I get the whole "having loud parties at 1 am" thing but the music itself is fine. I'd take it over most American music any day.


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## Hui (Sep 28, 2018)

No

fucking

Guatemalans


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## Erwin Rotten (Sep 28, 2018)

Being illegal is a crime and anyone who defends them should be considered as an accomplice to a crime. No matter what country, what race, what religion, anyone who stays in another country illegally is lazy as hell and heavily privileged.

Now time to shift through the fake news:
- Illegals don't pay as much in taxes as they take. They are a liability in any country. Holding a fake SSN is a minority occurrence(not to mention identity theft).

-Illegal adults do not get welfare checks, but their children do. These are births(anchor babies) that exist in a country and are citizens of a country their parents did not earn the right to be in. This is extra money the tax payers have to support, but shouldn't. The money is given to the children is meant for the children, but is given to the parents, who are to be trusted to take care of their children without knowing English and being under 18 in a large amount of cases.

-Welfare rewards someone with more children. This is a problem with illegal immigration where people can literally fuck their way into 5 figure income, especially when welfare pays more than minimum wage.

-Mexicans alone are sending to Mexico over $69 billion dollars a year. A majority of this is done by illegals, naturally. This is $69 billion dollars the US will never see again. It actually effects the value of the dollar, since there's less dollars and more pesos being used. This further effects the FOREX market, which is already difficult for US citizens to enter. In other words, it harms investors in a way that shouldn't be happening. NAFTA only adds insult to injury with how it makes US companies give Mexicans money directly.

-Illegals get free healthcare because they don't have an identity on file and can enter the emergency room, and cannot be denied. This means thousands of unpaid dollars per visit, with other patients and insurance companies footing the bill. Communism at work.

-Illegals are NOT doing the jobs people don't want to do. When unemployment is above 0%, there's people who want any job. The fact of the matter is that an employer has to pay taxes when they employ someone(half of the tax, which is why most pay checks around the minimum have about a 7% tax deduction, instead of around 12% - 15%). The employer also doesn't have to pay overtime, nor does it have to admit that it has over 50 employees, so it avoids paying medical and other regulations. Most illegal farm workers and construction workers make more than the average legal one. I'd love to do construction or farm work for the pay they are getting.

-Illegals are not being scouted out for no reason. Every time a raid is done, ICE has to do research and finds out illegals are using welfare, using fake SSN, or a business holds more employees than what they legally registered in their tax forms. All they need is one lead to find a suspicious spot. It's no different than a drug raid. If illegals don't want to be found in a raid, they shouldn't be breaking further laws, and somehow they think they are oppressed when they don't even do any jail time. It's a trip to the border, and they just go back for round 2.

-Splitting up families is the fault of the one who came illegally. The government doesn't go to another country to split up a family for fun. People know what they're doing. Also, a lot of cartel members are taking children from their relatives, pretending they have a child, and when they reach a major city, they sell that child into sex trade. I've seen actual mothers do that, who have sold their children to pedos in their neighborhood, just for that quick buck. It doesn't help that California has laws that prevent the pimps of children prostitutes from being detained by police.

-The number of illegals in the US has been said to be 11 million for years, but recent research from Yale has said it's more like 30 million, while Anne Coulter says it's like 40 million. Either way, it's around 1 out of 10 people who are illegal. This means 10% of people in the US are instantly criminals and like 5% of them are in or around LA. This is AFTER Trump's rise in deportation.

-An illegal can do any crime they want, and as long as they don't leave any direct evidence like the address of their hideout or directly get caught doing a crime, they are able to escape scott free. Just imagine being a citizen, and magically your finger prints and blood samples are erased. How can the police stop you? How can you be related to a crime scene? This fact is the reason why most illegals are found only after drunk driving or being caught right at the border or during a raid. Anything else might as well have happened during the medieval era with how primitive the available evidence is.

-Illegals don't merge with the culture of the US. No matter what country they come from, they bring their culture and keep it. Some lose it, some leave it because they hate it, but then they stay in families and neighborhoods who keep it. Mexican music is basically country music, it's meant to be played by the average bean for their parties after they survive the winter. These people don't come from major cities or modernized areas. They come from villages where they shit in the same river they drink from and their houses are made of clay that was dried in the sun because they were too lazy to use a fire. Not to mention, the amount of witchcraft in the Mexican community is like it's straight out of an episode of Salem. I know a lady who actually paid a witch (bruha) to curse someone she hated. She paid like a thousand dollars. This is what they spend their money on.

-Pedophilia is incredibly high in the illegal communities because of garbage cultures. It doesn't help that the children are told to be quiet, in fear of having their rapist relatives deported or they are threatened with cartel relations. This makes it worse when you realize a large amount of farm work in Texas is done by anchor baby children, and they work on farms in order to keep their pedo-defending parents in the country while they wait for a green card.

I'm sure there's a lot more to say but tl;dr Illegal immigration is a bad thing and it's better to just wait for a visa in your own country. Do things the right way. If anyone wants a part 2, I'll be more than happy to explain why most excuses illegals have for being illegal is bullshit.


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## Just Some Other Guy (Sep 28, 2018)

Eh, sure. Feel free to post a part 2. Had a gut feeling about most of these points anyways, but it's nice to see someone put it out there.


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## Zaragoza (Sep 29, 2018)

Erwin Rotten said:


> Being illegal is a crime and anyone who defends them should be considered as an accomplice to a crime. No matter what country, what race, what religion, anyone who stays in another country illegally is lazy as hell and heavily privileged.
> 
> Now time to shift through the fake news:
> - Illegals don't pay as much in taxes as they take. They are a liability in any country. Holding a fake SSN is a minority occurrence(not to mention identity theft).
> ...


Stories involving illegal immigrants would be cool.


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## Meat Poultry Veg (Sep 29, 2018)

Medicated said:


> I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.


It's better than Mexico's, which is "Go about your daily life and get beheaded by a cartel enforcer."

A nurse complained to me once that illegals can't be denied emergency medical treatment and of course, get it for free.


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## mindlessobserver (Sep 29, 2018)

Medicated said:


> I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.



Actually, America has one of the best welfare systems on the planet, if you are dirt poor. Below a certain income threshold, you get free healthcare, free food, and free housing with all electric/water included. Admittedly, the housing is a bit shit and the food is limited in options, but you can live your entire life and not have to work on it. In my city, there are a few government run housing blocks, and every family in them has a flat screen TV and other amenities since whatever cash they do make can be spent entirely on luxuries. There is a work requirement for staying in these programs, but there is no real standard set for what it should be, so many just do a contractor job once a week for a few hours filling in pot holes, or painting a wall or something, just to get a paystub to show they are gainfully employed. All the moaning about malnourished children in America is not the fault of the Government. The drug addicted parents traded all there welfare bucks for drugs. The drug dealers make a killing too, as the street exchange rate of food vouchers for money is extortion to the max.

That issue aside, there is no incentive to do more, because if they start making more money they will no longer qualify for the free healthcare, free food, and free housing. This has created a huge incentive problem. An economy NEEDS an underclass. Someone has to clean the ditches after all, and those danger haired freaks coming out of university with womens studies degrees are certainly not going to do it. Problem is our underclass has a cradle to grave welfare system firmly in place. So nobody legal is going to clean the ditches or pick the cotton. Illegal immigrants on the other can't get access to our welfare system (they are illegal). So they HAVE to work to live.

When economists say illegal immigrants are necessary for our economy they are not wrong per se, but they are lying by omission.


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## Medicated (Sep 29, 2018)

mindlessobserver said:


> Below a certain income threshold, you get free healthcare, free food, and free housing with all electric/water included.



I went to read up about it.

_*TANF* is the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program. Most people refer to this program as welfare. On average, TANF provided income to 2.5 million recipients in 2017. Of these, 1.9 million were children.

In 2016, TANF assisted only 23 percent of the families living in poverty. On average, a three-person family received $447 a month. Despite this help, they still live below the poverty line.

Families who receive TANF must get a job within two years. They might not get more money if they have another child. They can own no more than $2,000 in total assets. They can only receive TANF for five years or less in some states.
_
Apparently the free housing wait line is very long or closed due to the number of applications.  So I don't think things are very easy to get into.

I'd say the largest expenditure in social security happens here:

_*Medicaid *paid for health care for 64.9 million low-income adults in 2014. The largest share, which was 50 percent, went to 29.5 million children. Next, it covered 19.2 million adults, mostly parents of these children. It pays for 40 percent of all U.S. births._

_Medicaid also paid health expenses for 9.8 million blind and disabled people. The smallest category was 5.4 million low-income seniors. It paid for any health costs that Medicare didn't cover._

_The Affordable Care Act increased Medicaid coverage by 28 percent. It raised the income level and allowed single adults to qualify._

_*Child's Health Insurance Program*. In addition to Medicaid, 6 million children received additional benefits from CHIP. It covers hospital care, medical supplies, and tests. It also provides preventive care, such as eye exams, dental care, and regular check-ups._


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## mindlessobserver (Sep 29, 2018)

There is also the food assistance program, section 8 housing assistance, WIC etc


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## Erwin Rotten (Sep 29, 2018)

Meat Poultry Veg said:


> It's better than Mexico's, which is "Go about your daily life and get beheaded by a cartel enforcer."
> 
> A nurse complained to me once that illegals can't be denied emergency medical treatment and of course, get it for free.



Mexico surprisingly has a welfare system, that they call Prospera, and it isn't that good since you have to put money in to get money out, and what you get is like $200 a month average. It's mostly just to put children in school because of the incredibly high illiteracy in Mexico, as well as the fact that school isn't public everywhere and only people in a city need to pass high school.

What truly sucks about Mexico is that if you're on welfare or in a big city, the government can turn off your water or cut your electricity whenever they want. You're their bitch, especially if it's something political. So it's either put up with police that bother you for $10 or live in the village where nobody can read or write.



Medicated said:


> I thought America had one of the least welfare states in the western world.



The US is not at all the least welfare states in the western world. To start, it's the biggest one in the Americas, both in amount of people who use a welfare program and cost of its use. 80 million citizens are on welfare. The US gets over 10 million legal immigrants every year, with half going on welfare (5 million). To put it in perspective, the amount of people on welfare in the US is larger than the entire population of Germany, and it costs more per person than welfare recipients in Germany because of the lower living cost in Germany.

The US spends about $1 trillion in welfare, while Canada spends $276.8 billion, Germany and France about $800 billion. However, this doesn't include social security for the US, which is so much it has to take from other tax sources in order to fund itself (identity theft by illegals doesn't help).


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## Meat Poultry Veg (Sep 29, 2018)

Erwin Rotten said:


> Mexico surprisingly has a welfare system, that they call Prospera, and it isn't that good since you have to put money in to get money out, and what you get is like $200 a month average. It's mostly just to put children in school because of the incredibly high illiteracy in Mexico, as well as the fact that school isn't public everywhere and only people in a city need to pass high school.


I was being facetious of course, but you helped refine my point.


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## Trans-istor (Sep 30, 2018)

The illegal immigration problem really betrays Mexico's corruption. The politicians are doing everything they can to ship off the lower echelons of Mexican society (which at this point really is about 99% of people) to el norte and hope that stems revolutionary sentiment. And it's _working_. And while that's going on it's costing us $4 billion to educate their kids alone, let alone all the other things we do while 'Nam vets die homeless in the streets.

Instead of focusing on our own people, we're shipping in new ones because... reasons. I guess it's better to let 100,000 white men starve than one brown one. Even if that brown one starving one day kicks off a chain of events that leads to that problem being solved. $4 billion goes to our schools and straight into the hands of the children of people who legally shouldn't even get that benefit.

Where I diverge in the general thinking on this topic is what rights the kids have. Personally, I believe the children should be let back in if they wish to do so legally. I have this position because I know exactly how it feels to be chained to someone living in a foreign place you'd rather not; I haven't stepped foot in Tennessee in a couple of years and even now I wish I could go back. Similarly, these kids have 0 say in where they live. Being born at the wrong time isn't a crime, dipshit, I'm sorry you think the law is so anal that legal minors who can barely say the A-B-Cs (whether or not that means they're 3) can become felons.

TL;DR ship them back and use American resources for Americans. We can Make Mexico Great Again by forcing Mexicans to face revolutionary sentiment and actually act upon it, in this case, by not having any alternative. It's not like international politics does a lot when you're in the back pocket of drug cartels so powerful they can murder mayors in essentially broad daylight and get away scot-free.


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## Meat Poultry Veg (Sep 30, 2018)

In any other era of history, what Mexico is doing would constitute a causus belli and USA would rightly declare them an enemy.

We're basically fighting Mexican American War 2.0, only the aggressor is Mexico this time.


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## Your Weird Fetish (Sep 30, 2018)

mindlessobserver said:


> There is also the food assistance program, section 8 housing assistance, WIC etc


But this shit is hard to get into, @Medicated is right. What you end up with is a class of people whose job is getting into welfare programs. They probably expend as much if not more effort working through the bureaucratic mire and getting loopholes and favors as a danger haired Starbucks barista expends making cis white women morbidly obese.



Meat Poultry Veg said:


> In any other era of history, what Mexico is doing would constitute a causus belli and USA would rightly declare them an enemy.
> 
> We're basically fighting Mexican American War 2.0, only the aggressor is Mexico this time.


They were the aggressor last time too. I mean yeah, we baited them into it hard. But they still took the bait. It was the 19th century, it's just how things were then. Hate the game, not the player.


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## WW 635 (Sep 30, 2018)

Any time we catch am illegal immigrant, usually when they try to take advantage of the welfare system, we just deport them back to the United States


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## John Titor (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm generally sympathetic to anyone who wants to start a new life here in the US. That Penn and Teller episode about immigration somewhat reflects what I think. However, there's the reality that can't be ignored: we can barely take care of our own, it's not fair for people who came here the legal way and there are some people who cross borders are not looking for the American Dream (read: cartels hoping to sell their wares [also read: drugs]).


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## Joan Nyan (Oct 2, 2018)

Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.


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## ES 148 (Oct 2, 2018)

Immigrants are a Jewish myth


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## S'tasaulk (Oct 2, 2018)

Jon-Kacho said:


> Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.




Typically for legal immigration they cannot be on government assistance for at least a year. Granted this was in 1989 and the person also had to be sponsored for the first year and that they didn't have HIV/AIDS, TB, and other had other bloodwork done. Tis more of an interrogation than interview as well.


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## Rand /pol/ (Oct 2, 2018)

Jon-Kacho said:


> Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.


What about people who don't speak English, or have a different religion.


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## Joan Nyan (Oct 2, 2018)

Ron /pol/ said:


> What about people who don't speak English


Good point, they need to know enough English to know what the laws are and how not to break them. 


Ron /pol/ said:


> or have a different religion.


Different than what? America doesn't have a state religion.


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## dopy (Oct 12, 2018)

just reported some for looking at me funny at the grocery store


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## queerape (Oct 14, 2018)

Jon-Kacho said:


> Our legal immigration system should in practically everyone who a. isn't a member of a terror group or cartel, b. doesn't have TB, and c. isn't going to be on welfare. But anyone who tries to sneak in and bypass our system is a hostile invader.


Do you think then the problem may be it's too hard to get in legally/ there is not enough ways to get in legally? How do you feel about the current selectivity of the system?


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## Corbin Dallas Multipass (Nov 1, 2018)

BigRuler said:


> for the people all the criminals are obviously a major catastrophe, but the economy does not even register them.


Not entirely true, but in reverse of what you'd think.
In might not be the case in the US, but the way GDP (Gross Domestic Product, probably one of the main indicators of economic wellness) is calculated is not standardized.  Some countries count criminal enterprises toward their GDP.
So it may be the case that those 99 criminals "Help the economy" more than the one who's working, since criminal enterprise tends to involve bigger dollar amounts.

However, like I said, I don't know if the US includes criminal money toward its GDP. Italy does, if it didn't they'd have half the GDP for instance.


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## Manah (Nov 1, 2018)

It's pretty bad for everyone involved. It's a shame that the immigration process for a lot of countries is so slow, though.


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## Mrs Paul (Nov 2, 2018)

It's an issue, but not nearly to the point Trump seems to be making it out to be.  I think the dude is getting seriously paranoid.  If only because we have a lot more pressing issues to deal with.
Some of the real victims are the kids who get dragged here, and then they get punished for what their parents do.  That doesn't sit right with me.  Maybe I'm too much of a softy.  

And I'm not trying to be one of those "AMERIKKKA SUX!!!" but we're partly to blame, at least for the conditions in Latin America.  You can't support dictators and exploit the people for generations, and then just turn around and say, "Okay, sorry about that -- no hard feelings, right?"  
(In some places, things only started to improve after the end of the Cold War.)   History has a ripple effect.*

That being said, it's not something that can just be solved by saying, "okay, c'mon in, ,we'll take care of you!"  We can barely take care of some of our own.  I feel bad for a lot of these people, but we can't be the saviors of the world.  It's one of those problems that's not easily solved, but it's not necessarily soly our duty, either.  



queerape said:


> Do you think then the problem may be it's too hard to get in legally/ there is not enough ways to get in legally? How do you feel about the current selectivity of the system?



I think that might be an issue.  I don't think open borders are the answer, but make the immigration process too hard and you only encourage people to try bypass it.  




*I took a couple of courses in Latin American history in college and one of my professors was involved in Central American issues.  He and his wife were friends with an American missionary who was killed by  paramilitaries in Guatemala.


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## Just Some Other Guy (Nov 3, 2018)

Sorry, but illegal immigrants just make the government more suspicious of those legally immigrating. It's really not our duty at all to take care of these people. Sure, you can blame US policy in the region for a lot of things. Just like slavery though, that excuse is going to wear out and giving these countries a pressure relief valve ensures it will never be fixed.

We take in tons of legal immigrants already, but for these people it will never be enough. They have nothing to offer us. We already brain drain these countries like crazy. If they were allowed in legally, they would be competing for low end jobs that people already do.


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## Mrs Paul (Nov 3, 2018)

I didn't say it was our duty, necessarily.  Just that some of this shit is an effect of supporting so many dictators, unfortunately.  And I do think the problem IS exaggerated to an extent.

But we can barely handle the needy people we have right here in this country.


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## Just Some Other Guy (Nov 3, 2018)

What parts of it are exaggerated if I might ask? I'm sorry if I come off as a bit harsh, side effect of seeing way too many "Won't someone please think or the poor illegals!" headlines.


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## AF 802 (Nov 3, 2018)

Gas the Mexicans.

That's all I have to say.


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## Mrs Paul (Nov 4, 2018)

Just Some Other Guy said:


> What parts of it are exaggerated if I might ask? I'm sorry if I come off as a bit harsh, side effect of seeing way too many "Won't someone please think or the poor illegals!" headlines.



I don't think you're being harsh.  
I just generally don't believe that it's the most pressing issue facing our country at this time, nor do I believe most illegals are criminals.  (Well, other than being here illegally).  Most of them are just people trying to find a better life.  Unfortunately, we don't have all the resources to be Santa Claus to the rest of the world.  

To the point that the president is seriously considering issuing an EO order that would change something that's outlined in the Constitution -- that's a pretty big deal.  (Granted, there's no way he'll ever be able to get away with it) Yeah, it's probably just to rile up his base, we all know Trump mostly just likes to rant and rave.  Some people seem to think all these "ferriners" are coming here to over run the place and destroy our way of life.  I doubt it.  Too much paranoia.  It's a problem, but I'd say healthcare, the environment, issues with education, a lot of the recent racial attacks.  I think that's a bit more important.

Then again, that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.  




(I also don't think that saying, "hey, it's a bad idea to support dictators because of $$$$$$" is an excuse, just an explanation.  Nor is it one of the only reason for many of the problems going on down there.   It's just a very complex, ugly history.)


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## ICametoLurk (Nov 4, 2018)

If they are illegal then no one is gonna go looking for them.

Just saying.


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## Just Some Other Guy (Nov 4, 2018)

I mean, I get what you're saying. On the other hand though it can be argued that they ARE attempting to change our way of life when you have states like CA that push for policies that allow illegals (and convicts) to vote. As for being criminals, I mean that's open and shut. Especially all of the ones that do commit crimes here and wind up finding their way right back in due to our porous border. Trying to find a better life...idk, plenty of people do that legally. 

Another argument could be made that since many illegals siphon money earned away to Mexico, it's a large leech on our economy. It's really no better than when people bitch about the rich storing money offshore, yet nobody likes to bring up the sheer volume of cash that flows south.

I guess we just have different base mindsets because *p/l* after going though the process (for someone else, not personally), and paying the couple g's and waiting the year or so I lose sympathy to people trying to skirt around it. Now you have people trying to abuse the asylum system to get in.


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## Homer J. Fong (Nov 4, 2018)

Illegals hurt the working class American. I know this because I have an aunt that works in a poor school of the Los Angeles School District. Half her class are kids whose parents are illegals, they treat elementary school (a pivotal time in a child's learning) as a daycare. They'll take the kids out of school for weeks at a time. It's absolutely exhausting for her and emotionally draining, she tells everyone she meets don't work for Public Schools. What's really upsetting for her is that her pay is tied to the performance of these kids too.

The other half of her class could be receving her attention and help, instead she has to focus on the kids who are unruly and ultimately will unlearn what they're taught. A most heartbreaking story I remember was that one child told her that she couldn't finish her homework because her father was mocking her for "wasting her time" and encouraged her to instead watch TV with him.

Illegals are simply the Indentured Servants of the modern era. And it's so disgusting to see "Liberals" celebrate it. I truly believe that history will look at them the same way we look at the Jim Crow South. I'll leave you with this video by Cesar Chavez.


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## MW 002 (Nov 4, 2018)

I hate to say it, but the most frustrating ones to deal with are the ones who refuse to learn/speak English- especially when they’re in the workplace (after somehow managing to get by the hiring and interview process). 

There’s a couple of Arabs at work who don’t speak English at all and need one of my coworkers to translate basic instructions for them- keep in mind one of them DRIVES ffs, so I have no idea how that works. It’s gotten to the point where they’re put on the least hazardous jobs because explaining basic safety protocol is a huge pain in the ass.

I know they’re only hired on because they don’t understand enough English to be able to read labor laws, nor would they be able to complain unless they had a translator. To me, that’s an ethical issue all on its own.


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## User names must be unique (Nov 4, 2018)

Cardenio said:


> Illegals are simply the Indentured Servants of the modern era. And it's so disgusting to see "Liberals" celebrate it. I truly believe that history will look at them the same way we look at the Jim Crow South.



Yep rather than having businesses invest in technologies to make menial jobs automated or less labour intensive, creating higher paying design, engineering and manufacturing jobs. hire an army of foreign peasants to do the work instead. Throw out your washing machine and hire a somali serf for 25 cents an hour to hand wash your clothes it's the progressive thing to do!


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## UE 558 (Nov 5, 2018)

Here's an interesting question: how many of us come from illegals and either don't fucking realize it or barely aknowledge it? Was grandpa sergei really doing the lawful thing by intentionally using his student visa for green card elligabilty just because he decided to become a productive member of society instead of a leech who relies on the government?


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## Malagor the dank omen (Nov 8, 2018)

User names must be unique said:


> Yep rather than having businesses invest in technologies to make menial jobs automated or less labour intensive, creating higher paying design, engineering and manufacturing jobs. hire an army of foreign peasants to do the work instead. Throw out your washing machine and hire a somali serf for 25 cents an hour to hand wash your clothes it's the progressive thing to do!



This so much. The rich and businessmen see illegal inmigrants as their long awaited serfs that will do a thousand hours of work for chump change, and they can do this for several reasons: under the table payment, applying for unemployment benefits (without a contract you can claim you have no job nor income) and all sort of social programs in order to help them. They have become the new slaves, endorsed by the rich and powerful who want to fight oppression and inequality.

For example, here in southern Europe illegals are usually seen as the bane of all wages, because if you are an unqualified worker, you are going to be working in the same conditions they do for the same shit money, but you will not be able to apply for those benefits that keep them afloat because you are going to be hired and have an insurance, thing the illegals don't have. This has made uqualified labor something no one in their sane mind would ever want to work due to how illegals have tanked the wages. That's why most of our young go north, where they can do the same work and be paid a decent wage.


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## VinRhe0 (Nov 10, 2018)

Malagor the dank omen said:


> This so much. The rich and businessmen see illegal inmigrants as their long awaited serfs that will do a thousand hours of work for chump change, and they can do this for several reasons: under the table payment, applying for unemployment benefits (without a contract you can claim you have no job nor income) and all sort of social programs in order to help them. They have become the new slaves, endorsed by the rich and powerful who want to fight oppression and inequality.



The entire agriculture and farming industry depends on illegal immigrants for discounted labor.  Farms don't have to pay any sort of extras or benefits for them.  The moment their labor source is threatened they'll either lobby the fuck out of Congress to stall it or invest in automation since literally no legal American citizens are rushing to do the hard manual labor except for the immigrants.  

The majority of people who are illegal in this country are those who overstay their visa.  Its such a huge number that it overwhelms the State Department so of course its a massive shitshow.  The whole system needs to be reworked and a better way to track people with expired or soon to be expired visas is desperately needed.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Nov 11, 2018)

VinRhe0 said:


> The entire agriculture and farming industry depends on illegal immigrants for discounted labor.  Farms don't have to pay any sort of extras or benefits for them.  The moment their labor source is threatened they'll either lobby the fuck out of Congress to stall it or invest in automation since literally no legal American citizens are rushing to do the hard manual labor except for the immigrants.
> 
> The majority of people who are illegal in this country are those who overstay their visa.  Its such a huge number that it overwhelms the State Department so of course its a massive shitshow.  The whole system needs to be reworked and a better way to track people with expired or soon to be expired visas is desperately needed.



But here in Southern Europe farm work is the livelyhood of many people and industrial farming is slowly strangling those small farms with non illegals that try to make a profit but found themselves unable to compete with the big farming industry and the selling intermideates, who pay them almost nothing for their produce (prices plummet when you pay chump change to your employees). So in the end they hit both the prices of the products which also hit the wages of those farmers who collect the harvest or work at farms. 

But lately farmers here are banding together and selling their produce directly to the people, which is far more profitable than selling it to a supermarket chain, allowing them to make a huge benefit by selling their products slightly cheaper than the supermarket does.


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