# Why don't people talk about John Money on international transgender day or any disscusion about trans people?



## Rome's rightful successor (Mar 31, 2022)

John Money is a really important man in recent human history. The guy quite literally created the trans movement. Without him Trans people and even the idea of and the word gender would not exist. People would only see the difference between men and women as just biological sex without him.
Yet whenever anyone talks about trans people anything, they don't mention him at all.  It's like talking about the history of America and not talk about the Revolutionary war or the Founding Fathers.
You don't see intersectional or tans activist or Joe Biden talk about him despite being the reason why trans people exists today.
Could it be that the man was a walking skeleton in the closest for not just the trans community but for post-modernity itself?
It's not like he was a fraud and a pedophile that experimented on two young brothers that he ultimately ended up ruining their lives.
It's not like his experiments ended up being proven failures.





I find it just so weird how he is never brought up when it comes to discussion about trans people.


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## Chilson (Mar 31, 2022)

Trans people and their supporters look at a 41% suicide rate (actually its over 50% now) and they think it has everything to do with society, despite all the legitimate data showing the root cause to be a mistreated mental illness.

To provide a more illuminating comparison, Trannies insisting getting their genitals cut off is the cure (or "correction" as they like to call it, which is wrong but what else is new) to the mental illness they refuse to call a mental illness is like saying the cure to depression is to get addicted to smoking meth.

They quite literally don't live in the real world and shut out or ignore all facts and logic that would bring them back into the real world. Most are not even capable of getting back to reality due to their aforementioned mistreated mental illness. Trans supporters are simply ignorant morons who don't engage with any opponents to "the message" or uncaring ideologues who only care about getting a win over their opponents using trannies while giving less than a fuck about trannies.

In essence, they don't mention it because they are either in denial, ignorant to this information or obscenely selfish. Mainstream media has made it so you can't teach the ignorant without being face to face, and even then they will likely ostracize you for being "transphobic". While the other two groups don't care about the data/history. That is until those in denial inevitably join the 41%.


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## Red Hood (Mar 31, 2022)

I hope Satan's having fun tormenting this bastard.


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## MarvinTheParanoidAndroid (Mar 31, 2022)

Chilson said:


> despite all the legitimate data showing the root cause to be a mistreated mental illness.


I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's a mental illness, not as we know other ailments like Schizophrenia. I don't believe these people came about believing they were another gender apart from the one they're born as entirely on their own, I believe the suicidal ones were coaxed into it during adolescence by adults. The illness of transgenderism is imposed and not a natural, self-emergent occurrence.

Transgenderism used to be a thing for a select few people in society we barely heard of, now it's spontaneously exploded into its own phenomena in just ten years. Nothing natural explains that.


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## Chilson (Mar 31, 2022)

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:


> I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's a mental illness, not as we know other ailments like Schizophrenia. I don't believe these people came about believing they were another gender apart from the one they're born as entirely on their own, I believe the suicidal ones were coaxed into it during adolescence by adults. The illness of transgenderism is imposed and not a natural, self-emergent occurrence.
> 
> Transgenderism used to be a thing for a select few people in society we barely heard of, now it's spontaneously exploded into its own phenomena in just ten years. Nothing natural explains that.


Most mental illness is just biological vulnerabilities meeting a specific degree of environmental stress. Mind you we know almost nothing about these biological vulnerabilities in the brain other than they exist, but that is simply the mystery of the human brain that we will inevitably discover with time and research.

Its why PTSD occurs only in some humans and not in others despite going through the same environmental stress factors. Some were born with a lower tolerance for that type of stress, some were born with exceptionally high tolerance to it.

There is a reason so many trannies were abused, raped and or groomed into this illness, while others who went through the same scenarios came out with less extreme illnesses or none at all. Yet there are others who were simply socially pressured into becoming a tranny or crave that sort of social validation. Many depressives are people who also went through abuse, while other depressives simply want attention and enter a negative stress cycle to solicit other people's sympathy.

Just because someone has imposed this on them, doesn't not make it a mental illness. In fact its more evidence that it is a mental illness if nothing else. The only real exceptions when classifying mental illness are people born with birth defects and brain disorders, but frankly those should be classified as neurological illness rather than mental illness if I can be quite frank.

Hell in a few decades mental illness will simply be another term for neurological illness once we fully grasp the brain's mysteries and rid ourselves of the need of psychological research in exchange for neurological research, but unfortunately we are not there yet.


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## AirdropShitposts (Mar 31, 2022)

I've seen troons bring up the David Reimer case as an example of what happens if you don't affirm trans kids and how "allowing" Reimer to "transition" back to male was what led him to suicide when "she" should have just been affirmed as a woman. There's a bunch of them on reddit who spam some copy-paste about it to own the TERFS who post in subreddits that aren't pro-troon enough then block the evil transphobes who dare to point out the facts don't support their narrative.


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## Zero Day Defense (Apr 1, 2022)

AirdropShitposts said:


> I've seen troons bring up the David Reimer case as an example of what happens if you don't affirm trans kids and how "allowing" Reimer to "transition" back to male was what led him to suicide when "she" should have just been affirmed as a woman.


That's what happens when you take puberty blockers before you finish puberty-- your intelligence is capped at 1 SD below average (at minimum) and talking nonsense (like the suggestion that Reimer wasn't wholly aware of his being male and was not in fact displeased with being female being forced on him after Money convinced his parents to get his testicles removed along with what was left of his penis after the botched circumcision) becomes your norm.


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## Toolbox (Apr 1, 2022)

Chilson said:


> Most mental illness is just biological vulnerabilities meeting a specific degree of environmental stress. Mind you we know almost nothing about these biological vulnerabilities in the brain other than they exist, but that is simply the mystery of the human brain that we will inevitably discover with time and research.
> 
> Its why PTSD occurs only in some humans and not in others despite going through the same environmental stress factors. Some were born with a lower tolerance for that type of stress, some were born with exceptionally high tolerance to it.
> 
> ...


You are very, very optimistic on it being a 'few decades' if it is ever truly "solved" without some government actually just using said 'treatments' for mind control and not helping anyone but themselves. I agree with most of what you have to say about how these mental illnesses generally happen or react to reality, but what diseases have we truly cured beyond the easy? Most everything requires constant medication, and none of it is perfect.


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## Bush King (Apr 1, 2022)

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:


> I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's a mental illness, not as we know other ailments like Schizophrenia. I don't believe these people came about believing they were another gender apart from the one they're born as entirely on their own, I believe the suicidal ones were coaxed into it during adolescence by adults. The illness of transgenderism is imposed and not a natural, self-emergent occurrence.
> 
> Transgenderism used to be a thing for a select few people in society we barely heard of, now it's spontaneously exploded into its own phenomena in just ten years. Nothing natural explains that.


Manic depression and anxiety used to be something that only occured to the far fringes of low-society. What we recognise as AGPTs today were simply "transvestites" until the 70s and understood that the fetish didn't leave the bedroom. Autism has exploded in recent years and the Feds were kind enough to give schizophrenics the ability to contain us in here.

Mental illness has always been part genetics, part congenital, part nature, part nurture. What we see today is merely the celebration of certain kinds of illness in the case of transgender people (most these days do not have what you could call dysphoria), likewise the hyper-stressful environment caused by being in school from 5 to 25 for a lot of people without a real break before getting thrown into the real world has resulted in something like 1 in 5 adults taking antidepressants. A lot of schizophrenics present symptoms early on and it correlates with dysfunctional home life. Autistics used to be able to obsess over otherwise normal topics like trucks and transformers, but now schools allow them to hyper-fixate on gender. Kids who used to simply have dysphoria and depression over the natural changes they experienced in puberty will now be told that this is not normal and be fast-tracked to the gender dysphoria diagnosis.

You can see this occur in online spaces. The "Other-Kin" phenomenon was essentially the same as transgenderism, it was just completely rejected on the face of it by the public as obviously insane. Considering yourself to be the opposite gender is much more acceptable in the public eye- the body and brain fuck up all the time, and they claim to want to be normal just as the opposite sex, so maybe they're right when they say they're a woman? There are communities that prey on equally mentally ill people to make them bulimic or think they're a wolf, but these are just so obviously destructive and wrong. You can white wash people who cut their balls off because it's not acceptable viewing. Great editing can hide the obvious Munchausen on TLC, but it can't make vomiting every meal glamorous.


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## Zilortha (Apr 1, 2022)

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:


> I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's a mental illness, not as we know other ailments like Schizophrenia. I don't believe these people came about believing they were another gender apart from the one they're born as entirely on their own, I believe the suicidal ones were coaxed into it during adolescence by adults. The illness of transgenderism is imposed and not a natural, self-emergent occurrence.
> 
> Transgenderism used to be a thing for a select few people in society we barely heard of, now it's spontaneously exploded into its own phenomena in just ten years. Nothing natural explains that.


I think it's essentially a case of mass psychogenic illness - ie. mass hysteria, but adapted to a digital society. You could argue that they aren't actually delusional... But I'm not so sure. It's not a simple thing. Natural or not, it certainly presents like a delusional identity disorder, and even if they know that it's all bullshit they really do take it seriously. Some, seriously enough to mutilate themselves and self-sterilize. I'd argue you'd have to be delusional/mentally ill to go that far.

I do think you're right about it not being natural. I don't wanna go full conspiracy theorist, but I certainly think our society has been manipulated into manifesting and legitimizing transgenderism. But I don't know how relevant that is when it comes to whether it's a real mental illness or not.


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## male pattern malding (Apr 1, 2022)

IIRC while Money was the first to formulate the idea of gender identity as separate from biological sex, he also believed that gender was entirely malleable and socially conditioned, ie. any child could come to identify as either a boy or a girl if raised as such from an early age. Modern troon ideology does of course also believe in gender identity, but where they differ from Money is that they think it is innate and immutable and being raised as the 'wrong' gender is in fact extremely damaging.

This ideological shift probably came about partly because Money's ideas were thoroughly discredited by the tragic results of the Reimer brothers experiment, but also because the latter version of gender identity "theory" actually allows for easier trooning of kids. Think about it - if anyone can be raised to identify as either a boy or a girl, then what reason is there to not raise a healthy child in accordance with their biological sex? It would basically mean giving a child body dysmorphia for no good reason. Hence why Money had to test his theory on someone whose genitals had been mangled accidentally.

The position that a child's non-sex-stereotypical behaviour is evidence of their innate 'true gender' being different to their biological sex is what gives an avenue for any munchie mom to claim that her son wanting to wear a pink tutu means he _must_ be put on puberty blockers and castrated or he will inevitably 41%. It frames gender identity not as something chosen for a child by their parents, but as something that must be affirmed for the child's own good, and hence allows dismissing anyone critical of it as an evil bigot who just wants to hurt 'trans kids'.

tl;dr: troons disowned Money not because he abused kids, but because his theory wasn't sufficiently permissive of abusing kids


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## Rome's rightful successor (Apr 1, 2022)

AirdropShitposts said:


> I've seen troons bring up the David Reimer case as an example of what happens if you don't affirm trans kids and how "allowing" Reimer to "transition" back to male was what led him to suicide when "she" should have just been affirmed as a woman. There's a bunch of them on reddit who spam some copy-paste about it to own the TERFS who post in subreddits that aren't pro-troon enough then block the evil transphobes who dare to point out the facts don't support their narrative.


I really wish we could have a Lunacy or a Horrifying button here for this one.  David Reimer did not want to be a women because he was a man.


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## Dandelion Eyes (Apr 1, 2022)

A response I heard was something along the lines of


> Yes, John Money's experiment was horrifying, but it did prove that gender identity is inside your head.


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## Toolbox (Apr 1, 2022)

Dandelion Eyes said:


> A response I heard was something along the lines of


Despite the fact it did nothing but prove someone who was born male, had the mind of a male, would do nothing but reject a forced female identity. I don't see how any part of the experiment supported someone of one sex subconsciously having the identity of the opposite.


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## Sweetpeaa (Apr 1, 2022)

Chilson said:


> Trans people and their supporters look at a 41% suicide rate (actually its over 50% now) and they think it has everything to do with society, despite all the legitimate data showing the root cause to be a mistreated mental illness.
> 
> To provide a more illuminating comparison, Trannies insisting getting their genitals cut off is the cure (or "correction" as they like to call it, which is wrong but what else is new) to the mental illness they refuse to call a mental illness is like saying the cure to depression is to get addicted to smoking meth.
> 
> ...



I think most trans people are self loathing and have the ''grass is greener'' mentality in thinking they'd suffer less in life if they were born a woman. But they still suffer and they suffer even more when they transition. You won't meet many happy trans people. All of them are literally the most miserable people you could meet in your life. Most fall under ''cluster b traits'' but now even Psychiatrists won't even dare open that up. This is unfortunate because some of these people could actually be helped. I say some.


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## ToroidalBoat (Apr 2, 2022)

ToroidalBoat said:


> I use the word "sex" instead of "gender" because the latter was a prudish alternative, and was then made popular by John Money.
> 
> Money was supposedly a sick freak who proposed sex change as a "treatment" for a child with an injured penis, and he made the poor boy -- who later killed himself -- and his brother do some sick stuff. It seems Money was the one who popularized the word "gender" and also launched the Current Year "transgender" craze.
> 
> So yeah, I use "sex" instead of "gender."


Also "John Money" sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon bad guy name.


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## Mrs Paul (Apr 9, 2022)

AirdropShitposts said:


> I've seen troons bring up the David Reimer case as an example of what happens if you don't affirm trans kids and how "allowing" Reimer to "transition" back to male was what led him to suicide when "she" should have just been affirmed as a woman. There's a bunch of them on reddit who spam some copy-paste about it to own the TERFS who post in subreddits that aren't pro-troon enough then block the evil transphobes who dare to point out the facts don't support their narrative.




I've never read that.  Honestly, if anyone has exploited the whole story, it's been the Intactivists. (And we all know how rational THEY are)  Or to a lesser degree, the idea that intersex infants shouldn't be operated on until until they're much older (that makes sense).

Most of the articles I've read about Money and/or Reimer from a trans point of view usually has the same message: that the reason David ended up suicidal, that why the experiment failed, is because he wasn't trans, that it was an "experiment", something done to correct a horrible accident, rather than the kid actually expressing any thoughts of wanting to be a girl.  That from the start, David _knew_ something wasn't right, even though he wasn't told until much much later -- gender is in our brains.  Not our bodies, per se.  Had he really been trans, it probably wouldn't have effected him so much.  You can't force someone to be trans -- transgenderism isn't just "chopping up your body".  It's more complex. 

I think that's why it tends to be so controversial.  It's an odd situation to wrap one's mind around. 


(I know I'm in the minority here.  But I'll stick with first hand accounts and what I've actually been told, not just stupid internet ramblings on tumblr and/or reddit, and opinion blogs.  No offense.  If anything, and I've said before, I think some of it is due to confirmation bias, because this is a forum about weirdos, so the trans people we talk about here are basically included in those.  What's the point of talking about the boring trans people?)


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## Lemmingwise (Apr 10, 2022)

As much as people's conception of john money is filled with half truths, I think it's a step in the right direction towards truth that he is being mentioned more and more online.

Just a couple of reminders:

1. John Money did not innovate the use of the word gender as different from sex, he innovated the use of the terms "gender role" and "gender identity".
2. John Money did not start the trans movement wholesale, as this was already a thing in pre-ww2 germany for example, where a man tried to receive a womb transplant (and died).
3. John Money did create a scientific basis and legitimization for the transgender movement by lying about the Reimer case and false reporting on it.
4. John Money advocated to seperate "affectional pedofilia" from "sadistic pedopofilia" and that affectional pedofilia was a result of an overabundance of parental love and not wrong.
5. He claimed negative responses to his various "research" were due to "right wing media bias".
6. John Money has received numerous awards and was a respected academic throughout his life. A recent one is notable for its historic link, the 2002 Magnus Hirschfeld medal.


Magnus Hirschfeld oversaw the earlier mentioned womb transplant of Lili Elbe, the Danish man who lived as a woman.


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## Ingmar Aspergman (Apr 16, 2022)

AirdropShitposts said:


> I've seen troons bring up the David Reimer case as an example of what happens if you don't affirm trans kids and how "allowing" Reimer to "transition" back to male was what led him to suicide when "she" should have just been affirmed as a woman. There's a bunch of them on reddit who spam some copy-paste about it to own the TERFS who post in subreddits that aren't pro-troon enough then block the evil transphobes who dare to point out the facts don't support their narrative.


Jesus that makes me sick


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## Lemmingwise (Apr 16, 2022)

Mrs Paul said:


> gender is in our brains. Not our bodies, per se.


I understand the distinction you're trying to make, but our brain is in our bodies and our self perception of gender is informed by said body to some degree.



Mrs Paul said:


> Had he really been trans


I still regard it as an assumption, not something proven, that anyone could be "really trans". What evidence do we have, really?


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## Aero the Alcoholic Bat (Apr 17, 2022)

If you REALLY studied LGBTQ history, your sympathy for the modern LGBTQ movement will evaporate in a heartbeat.

Pick any influential LGBTQ figure in the 20th century, chances are they're some kind of pedophile, not just John Money.  Alfred Kinsey.  Simone de Beauvoir.  Harvey Milk.  Helmut Kentler, Alan Ginsberg, Harry Hay.

Before then, homosexuality (at least male homosexuality) was strongly associated with pederasty and grooming/enslavement of young boys.  And those who engaged in any form of cross dressing or gender-bending were oftentimes the worst kinds of people you can imagine.

The Roman Empire was particularly depraved.



Lemmingwise said:


> I understand the distinction you're trying to make, but our brain is in our bodies and our self perception of gender is informed by said body to some degree.


Why the hell make the distinction at all?  Until recently, normies used the term "gender" as a more polite way to refer to "biological sex."  It's an idiotic word game, and even trannies themselves will stop making the distinction when they demand to be treated like actual members of the opposite sex.

I have a blog post on it here.


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## Lemmingwise (Apr 17, 2022)

Aero the Alcoholic Bat said:


> Why the hell make the distinction at all?  Until recently, normies used the term "gender" as a more polite way to refer to "biological sex."  It's an idiotic word game, and even trannies themselves will stop making the distinction when they demand to be treated like actual members of the opposite sex.


They needed an in between step to get people over the bridge. And you need the in between step to get people back over the bridge. To have a conversation you need to be able to look at things from their perspective. Otherwise you're just shouting at each other.

--

Also your blog post read like slightly longer anonymous shitposts. If you're going to have a blog, why not dive in depth?


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## Aero the Alcoholic Bat (Apr 17, 2022)

Lemmingwise said:


> They needed an in between step to get people over the bridge. And you need the in between step to get people back over the bridge. To have a conversation you need to be able to look at things from their perspective. Otherwise you're just shouting at each other.



I guess it's situational then, but I personally prefer not to whenever possible.


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## axeltrite (Jul 12, 2022)

Aero the Alcoholic Bat said:


> Pick any influential LGBTQ figure in the 20th century, chances are they're some kind of pedophile, not just John Money.  Alfred Kinsey.  Simone de Beauvoir.  Harvey Milk.  Helmut Kentler, Alan Ginsberg, Harry Hay.





Aero the Alcoholic Bat said:


> I have a blog post on it here.


Necroing this to point out that the blog post has been deleted, but I'm interested in the history behind this. Can you repost it here if you still have a backup?


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## Aero the Alcoholic Bat (Jul 12, 2022)

axeltrite said:


> Necroing this to point out that the blog post has been deleted, but I'm interested in the history behind this. Can you repost it here if you still have a backup?



Yes, I do.

However, this thread is better, in my opinion.


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## axeltrite (Jul 12, 2022)

Aero the Alcoholic Bat said:


> Yes, I do.
> 
> However, this thread is better, in my opinion.


Thanks for the quick response! I'll check these out.


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## Vril-Dame vom Aldebaran (Jul 12, 2022)

Aero the Alcoholic Bat said:


> The Roman Empire was particularly depraved.



Only in its late stages, and the main reason we know about it is because plenty of Roman authors found it distasteful. That's why they wrote it down. Kinda like how we catalog the exploits of lolcows to laugh or rage about them. 

Traditional Roman society looked down upon homosexuality. Although for context, you only were considered homosexual if you were a bottom - the man doing the penetrating isn't gay. It was all about power and social roles. Men penetrate, women get penetrated. Switching those roles up is socially deviant.

Romans really did not like gays, overall. They considered the pederasty practiced in some Greek poleis to be decadent and degenerate. Roman society leaned heavily toward what we would call conservative, especially the upper strata of society. Men were men, women were women, both served the Res Publica as best they could, and the ideal relationship was a stable marriage with children. 

The later Empire got more decadent, as a society tends to when it's too prosperous and its people have no real problems. But the historians, who usually hailed from the senatorial class, wrote negatively about that decadence. Tacitus, who wrote a famous book about the Germanic peoples, admired them for their traditional way of life and staunch social mores. They threw gay people into bogs. He considered that a good thing. 

While some Roman emperors had male lovers (Hadrian, famously), they kept their love life personal and didn't do anything degenerate in public. With a few exceptions: Heliogabalus was an infamous teenage emperor who might be considered the world's first transgender. A completely decadent young man who offered a million sesterces to any doctor able to give him a vagina. That boy would have loved the 21st century. He was universally despised, the entire city of Rome laughed about him, and he finally got murdered by his own guards. 

Why am I posting all this autism about ancient history? Because the LGBT agenda pushers often refer to ancient history and how "tolerant" it was, while only having rudimentary knowledge of the primary sources. Yes, homosexuality and other forms of degeracy existed in the ancient world. But it wasn't as widely accepted as the rainbow brigade would like you to think. Most people looked down on it, and society as a whole discouraged it. And the people who wrote about it did so because they wanted to use it as an example of how society can turn bad when it becomes too decadent. They never glorified it.


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## Aero the Alcoholic Bat (Jul 12, 2022)

Vril-Dame vom Aldebaran said:


> Why am I posting all this autism about ancient history? Because the LGBT agenda pushers often refer to ancient history and how "tolerant" it was, while only having rudimentary knowledge of the primary sources. Yes, homosexuality and other forms of degeracy existed in the ancient world. But it wasn't as widely accepted as the rainbow brigade would like you to think. Most people looked down on it, and society as a whole discouraged it. And the people who wrote about it did so because they wanted to use it as an example of how society can turn bad when it becomes too decadent. They never glorified it.



What's more, they mistakenly think that only cultures dominated by Abrahamic religions ever punished or looked down upon homosexuality.

There are plenty of reasons why homosexuality is disordered/disgusting, and why LGBTQ culture is even more depraved, and you don't need to be a Christian fundamentalist to see it.


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## Uberpenguin (Jul 12, 2022)

I'm going to be honest, I've never understood why anti-trans people bring it up so often either.

If this guy chopped off some kid's dick, encouraged their parents to raise them as a girl from birth, and they resisted it to the end and eventually killed themselves over it, does that not prove sex is, in fact, a biologically static concept, which means a person could be biologically transgender and that reassignment surgery would be imperative from a young age?

Yeah, exactly bigot, if you force a child to be raised against their biological gender it will lead to suicide. I was born biologically female but with the wrong genitals, and therefore if you do not give me gender affirming surgery it will be a constant struggle not to kill myself.

Not to mention that Money mainly advocated for non-consensual genital reassignment in the case of children with genital deformities, it had nothing to do with not "feeling" like the correct gender. The trannies would say that's completely different, since their version is based almost exclusively on personal reporting. They'll coach kids to say they want it before they do it.

Further, Reimer's twin brother _also_ killed himself, two years earlier than Reimer (who did get married, to a woman) did, meaning a lot of the fucked up sexual shit that happened to them could've been the cause of his mental distress, along with his brother's suicide and his divorce (he killed himself 2 days after his wife told him) that did him in. It makes the whole thing way too messy to draw any conclusions from.

I can't even argue for or against what anyone says about this guy because nobody ever states what implications any of this has for transgenderism, they just go "Hey look, John Money gender pedophile kid kill themselves!" and that's it. What does any of this have to do with transgenderism aside from the guy espousing some similar concepts to those used by the modern transgender movement? My guess is that's why they don't bring it up, because the guy isn't especially good ammo for either side.



Chilson said:


> Trans people and their supporters look at a 41% suicide rate


_There is no 41% trans suicide rate_. That is not a real thing.

That is how many trans people have SELF REPORTED to have previously ATTEMPTED suicide at any point. Look, here's a terf talking about, I've linked this before but I'll do so again








						The 41% trans suicide attempt rate:  A tale of flawed data and lazy journalists
					

If there is one constant in reports about transgender people, it’s the prevalence of suicidal intent.  Nearly all media accounts cite an average 41% suicide attempt rate. A Google keyword search fo…



					4thwavenow.com
				




That's not a real number. Trannies are narcissists, and they don't take it out on themselves. If they did I'd probably respect them more, but they don't, they just wait for someone else to be the sacrificial lamb (even a fake suicide like Byuu will do) to capitalize on it.

People really need to stop helping them push their bullshit.


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## Free_Palestine (Jul 13, 2022)

Lemmingwise said:


> 6. John Money has received numerous awards and was a respected academic throughout his life. A recent one is notable for its historic link, the 2002 Magnus Hirschfeld medal.
> View attachment 3164246
> 
> Magnus Hirschfeld oversaw the earlier mentioned womb transplant of Lili Elbe, the Danish man who lived as a woman.


Hirschfeld also gets short shrift like Money. Part of it probably being because they want to treat their ideology like it's something natural and normal rather than something perverted that came from the dark recesses of jewish and gay pedophile minds.

and they probably still have some sense of how Money and Hirschfeld play to normies so that's why you only see right wingers bring them up despite them being two of the most influential left wing thinkers, never mentioning whose books the Nazis were burning is very intentional.


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## Bonesjones (Jul 14, 2022)

Uberpenguin said:


> I can't even argue for or against what anyone says about this guy because nobody ever states what implications any of this has for transgenderism, they just go "Hey look, John Money gender pedophile kid kill themselves!" and that's it. What does any of this have to do with transgenderism aside from the guy espousing some similar concepts to those used by the modern transgender movement? My guess is that's why they don't bring it up, because the guy isn't especially good ammo for either side.


He literally invented the idea of gender. That's a pretty key point to bring up when they talk about the concept of gender. There's a reason they changed it from transsexual to transgender. One is an innately stupid concept and the other is a more maliable and impressionable one. This isn't by accident. There's a lot of smart evil people pushing this, just look at the two "scientists" who  were obsessed with child eunuchs were the driving force behind changing the DSM to be more open to transgender shit.


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## Sparkletor 2.0 (Jul 14, 2022)

Classic case of the grass is always greener on the other side.

Be a man. Boy, girls have it so easy. They get anything they want just because they are a girl. If I was a girl I could get everything I want too! Chop off dick. Don't get treated like a girl because you're just a dude who chopped his dick off.

Be a woman. Boy, guys have it so easy. They get anything they want just because they are guys. If I was a guy I could get everything I want too! Chop off tits. Don't get treated like a guy because you're just a chick who has no tits.


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## Aves (Sep 30, 2022)

Bonesjones said:


> He literally invented the idea of gender. That's a pretty key point to bring up when they talk about the concept of gender. There's a reason they changed it from transsexual to transgender. One is an innately stupid concept and the other is a more maliable and impressionable one. This isn't by accident. There's a lot of smart evil people pushing this, just look at the two "scientists" who  were obsessed with child eunuchs were the driving force behind changing the DSM to be more open to transgender shit.


That’s like saying we need to talk about Thomas Edison being a jerk every time a new lightbulb design comes out.

Modern day trannies use the fact that men and woman are very different to justify their transition. They say “I’m a dude in a girls body, let me transition!”

Johns moneys experiment wasn’t consensual, it was completely forced. This is not the case for todays trans people. It’s useless to mention him.


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## Akumaten (Sep 30, 2022)

Aero the Alcoholic Bat said:


> If you REALLY studied LGBTQ history, your sympathy for the modern LGBTQ movement will evaporate in a heartbeat.


I know about their 1970s ghei charter and the fist statement is "removal of age of consent " laws.


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## Toolbox (Sep 30, 2022)

Aves said:


> Johns moneys experiment wasn’t consensual, it was completely forced. This is not the case for todays trans people. It’s useless to mention him.


Doubt. Ignoring the push to 'allow' kids to transition, a whole lot of trannies are trannies because they were groomed into it. Yeah sure if they're an adult and they chose to do it it's 'consent' but that's like letting someone with limb dysmorphia cut off their legs so they can fulfill their dream of being in a wheelchair.


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## DiscoRodeo (Sep 30, 2022)

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:


> I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's a mental illness, not as we know other ailments like Schizophrenia. I don't believe these people came about believing they were another gender apart from the one they're born as entirely on their own, I believe the suicidal ones were coaxed into it during adolescence by adults. The illness of transgenderism is imposed and not a natural, self-emergent occurrence.
> 
> Transgenderism used to be a thing for a select few people in society we barely heard of, now it's spontaneously exploded into its own phenomena in just ten years. Nothing natural explains that.


Id use the term "social contagion" to describe it, as opposed to mental illness.

It does fit the bill for a mental illness, but one that has aspects that are far more social than anything else, such as anorexia, cutting, or suicidal ideation.

To be sure, there are people with "genuine" dysphoria, but Id wager that sans the social contagion aspect, they'd be as common as they were 20 or 30 years ago (maybe with a small percentile more due to acceptance), which is basically nil. The same way people who want to cut off a body part like their arm or leg is ultra uncommon, this likely should be as well.


Chilson said:


> Trans people and their supporters look at a 41% suicide rate (actually its over 50% now) and they think it has everything to do with society, despite all the legitimate data showing the root cause to be a mistreated mental illness.


Here's something that irks and amuses me.

Society has arguably never been more accepting of troons, troon suicides are up- but the 2 & 2 still doesn't seem to add up to them, and its always "society isnt accepting enough!!".


Zilortha said:


> I think it's essentially a case of mass psychogenic illness - ie. mass hysteria, but adapted to a digital society. You could argue that they aren't actually delusional... But I'm not so sure. It's not a simple thing.


I think it should be called a mental illness for two main reasons.

A) Its an abnormality that impacts the way that people function, in a negative way. I don't mean that cross dressing is bad in and of itself. I mean that, regardless of people's views on what should or shouldn't be in vogue, is or isn't moral, these people seem to have a really bad way at functioning, are obsessed with their appearances and peoples perceptions of them, have major sexual dysfunctions, etc. They also want a cure for this and think that transitioning is said cure.

No matter how you slice it, problem + cure = disease. Gender dysphoria is that problem, hence its a disease. 

B) A normal person doesn't threaten suicide at the slightest thing. If you are suicidal, you should be treated like a mentally ill person. If being transgender and not being affirmed will throw you into fits of suicidal ideation, you are not healthy, that is not normal behavior, and ironically troons constantly try to push the suicide narrative and also "we're perfectly normal" at the same time.



Zilortha said:


> I don't wanna go full conspiracy theorist, but I certainly think our society has been manipulated into manifesting and legitimizing transgenderism. But I don't know how relevant that is when it comes to whether it's a real mental illness or not.


Id go as far as to say that, whether its organic or not, its not like the people in power had to have caused it, but it certainly is a good culture war issue to distract people from the fact that the economic party in the West has burst over the past few years and I'm sure that if there were forces pushing culture in one way or another, it'd find its use there.


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## Aves (Sep 30, 2022)

Toolbox said:


> Doubt. Ignoring the push to 'allow' kids to transition, a whole lot of trannies are trannies because they were groomed into it. Yeah sure if they're an adult and they chose to do it it's 'consent' but that's like letting someone with limb dysmorphia cut off their legs so they can fulfill their dream of being in a wheelchair.


Once again, the grooming cases are still not very common. There just aren’t tons of cases where angry kids were convinced to be trans. Seriously, a ton of trans people genuinely think they are trans without any grooming necessary.


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## Watcher (Oct 3, 2022)

Because he makes them look bad

He still gets cited and his work is still generally speaking looked on with reverence by doctors in the space but if you attempt to praise Money people will bring up things like how he was okay with pedophiles and thought children could consent to sex. So they mostly just publicly ignore his legacy. If you try and bring up John Money to most transgender activists they either ignore it or attempt to claim that he doesn't represent current views of transgender people even though he said statements that almost all of them would agree with.


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## Biden's Chosen (Oct 5, 2022)

Aves said:


> That’s like saying we need to talk about Thomas Edison being a jerk every time a new lightbulb design comes out.


Could have fooled me, because people seem to try and shit on this great man at every opportunity.

Just try and name two facts that would make him a jerk. People always get them wrong.


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## Aves (Oct 5, 2022)

Biden's Chosen said:


> Could have fooled me, because people seem to try and shit on this great man at every opportunity.
> 
> Just try and name two facts that would make him a jerk. People always get them wrong.


I know he did some shit with Tesla, but even if that analogy doesn’t work my point is still the same. 

We can use, I don’t know, the father of gynecology for example. He did some pretty terrible shit to woman, but that doesn’t mean the entire field is btfo’ed.


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## Biden's Chosen (Oct 5, 2022)

Aves said:


> I know he did some shit with Tesla, but even if that analogy doesn’t work my point is still the same.
> 
> We can use, I don’t know, the father of gynecology for example. He did some pretty terrible shit to woman, but that doesn’t mean the entire field is btfo’ed.


As an analogy, sure.

But his beef with Tesla is an internetmeme. He even bought Tesla a new lab after Tesla blew up his old one, which was after their supposed rivalry had begun.


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## Aves (Oct 5, 2022)

Biden's Chosen said:


> As an analogy, sure.
> 
> But his beef with Tesla is an internetmeme. He even bought Tesla a new lab after Tesla blew up his old one, which was after their supposed rivalry had begun.


Interesting, I’ll keep that in mind.


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## PipTheAlchemist (Oct 19, 2022)

Because International Transgender Day is not the time for you to be spouting your phony get-rich-quick schemes


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