# What does it mean when you're fit, but your muscles/joints feel full of lactic acid and discomfort constantly?



## Crunchy Oats (Apr 29, 2022)

I have a very fit and lean body, but for some reason, all of my muscles hurt every day no matter what I do.

The worst spot is in my leg muscles and around my knees, but generally everywhere has the same issue. I also have early-onset arthritis according to some doctors years ago. I can only resolve some of the pain/discomfort by rolling my body on a medicine wheel, or using a power massage tool to rub out what feels like a shitload of lactic acid which just comes back within the day. It never gets better, and I can never be rubbed long enough to truly feel better. I don't go to professional masseuses or chiropractors which would probably be awesome, those types of resources unfortunately aren't available to me.

The person I live with isn't athletic and doesn't feel the same way at all, and they hate to be rubbed. I'm left to think I have some condition like fibromyalgia, and none of my doctors in the past have ever been able to figure it out. It has only gotten more noticeable as I get older.

Doing intense exercises like weight lifting or riding a stationary bike with high traction every other day seems to help things a little, but it gets tiring to keep that up. Am I just missing some kind of vitamin? My blood type is A+, and I eat plenty of homemade things recommended for that blood type, so I don't really know if it's a diet issue.

I'm not sure if anyone really can help with this, but maybe KF will be better at guessing than my doctors.


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## Chocolate Wombat (Apr 29, 2022)

You might be pregnant.


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## Beresford's Whip (Apr 29, 2022)

Hydrate more.


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## Clout $ Monei (Apr 29, 2022)




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## PaulBearer (Apr 29, 2022)

It means you're a cunt.


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## Jimmy Pop (Apr 29, 2022)

Make sure you’re getting salt in your diet as well, have a pickle or a few pretzels with your next glass of water


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## Accept Only Substitutes (Apr 29, 2022)

This does sound like fibromyalgia. Have you seen a rhuematologst? They might have a better idea. If nothing else they can do the pressure point test that diagnosises fibro. Trust me, if you have it those pressure points will tell you. They barely touch you but holy crap the pain!

Treatment is antidepressants, typically Cymbalta. That somehow makes the misfiring pain signals stop, or mostly stop. Side effects vary, most common is lack of sex drive or hard to achieve orgasm. Which sucks, but it can be worked through. If you skip a day ypu'll probably regret it, because withdrawal is a fucking nightmare. But it's not as easy to go into withdrawal as other psych meds I'm on.

Drinking lots of water, exercise, and massage is also good for it. So you're already doing the right things. Get some foam rollers and learn how to use them. Stretch more. There are good books on stretching, though I don't have any names off the top of my head.

Some people claim diet helps, but I don't see a difference. My Cymbalta means I'm mostly pain free, except when the weather changes or I just have a flare.

Edit: if you haven't had through blood work done to check for nutritional deficiencies, get that done. It could be something like a magnesium deficiency (I don't know if magnesium would cause muscle aches, but you know what I mean). In the short term adding a multivitamin to your daily routine won't hurt you.


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## Just A Butt (Apr 29, 2022)

you should make a psych appointment while you're at it


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## Spl00gies (Apr 29, 2022)

*Chronic widespread pain is a common comorbidity of HIV infection* and is associated with decreased quality of life and a high rate of disability. Chronic pain in people with HIV is multifactorial and influenced by HIV-induced peripheral neuropathy, drug-induced peripheral neuropathy, and chronic inflammation.


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## Accept Only Substitutes (Apr 29, 2022)

Also, pain disorders and other chronic illnesses take forever to get diagnosed. Average time from original complaint to a doctor to a diagnosis is close to _eight years. _

Mostly because people present with vague problems that are caused by a wide number of conditions, like general fatigue or widespread paid . Plus front line doctors typically don't know much about the more uncommon diseases. Shows like House make it look like doctors bend over backwards to find the rare disease their patient comes in with, when the reality is far from that! They are trained to look for horses, not zebras when they hear hoofbeats. 

The best advice I can give you beyond what I've already said is be your own advocate. Don't go full munchie, that's just as ridiculous, but if you really feel something is wrong - and it sounds like something might be - be the squeaky wheel. Go to your doctor and insist on being referred to specialists. Like I said, I'd start with rheumatoloy. It may be a form of arthritis, since you said you had early-onset. If they can't help you, ask them who they'd recommend you see next, and so on. 

They may still not find an answer, but eventually they will probably find _something, _or at least be able to treat the symptoms. But you've got to do the work to get there.


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## Johnny Salami (Apr 29, 2022)

Just A Butt said:


> View attachment 3229403
> you should make a psych appointment while you're at it


Doctors are pill pushers. They give 15 year old girls T but not me who's been stuck at below a 300 bench for years even though i could do it in high school


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## Accept Only Substitutes (Apr 29, 2022)

Johnny Salami said:


> Doctors are pill pushers. They give 15 year old girls T but not me who's been stuck at below a 300 bench for years even though i could do it in high school


Have you tried identifying as a 15 year old girl?


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## SphinxItOver (Apr 29, 2022)

From what you provided it sounds more like an inflammation issue than lactic acid. 

'Fit' doesn't equal 'healthy'. It could be cause by anything from sleep, diet, water intake, sickness, or your bodies realistic exercise and rest needs. Not all bodies are the same. Keep a dot journal for a month, two, or year. Then make sure you correct any issues that are revealed by the journal to a recommended average. Getting full 8hr of sleep, one rest day for every exercise day, recommended daily calories, protein, vitamins, and water. Work on an exclusion/inclusion method from that point.


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## Crunchy Oats (Apr 29, 2022)

I tried the antidepressants before, but like @Accept Only Substitutes said it kind of sucks and I wasn't really depressed in the first place.
I do find that the soreness is worse when I'm in a dull mood or low on sleep though.

Water is definitely something I need to drink more of, I tend to have 100% juice a lot.
My dad has Rheumatoid Arthritis, so I'm sure I have something arthritis-related going on as well.
Massages are super intense for me on certain muscles, it doesn't hurt though, it feels like my muscle is a sponge full of lactic acid being squeezed out.

Also, I don't really think it's HIV since I've only been in contact with one person and vice versa, and they don't feel any of my effects at all, and both of us were clean last time we were checked.


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## SphinxItOver (Apr 29, 2022)

Crunchy Oats said:


> My dad has Rheumatoid Arthritis, so I'm sure I have something arthritis-related going on as well.
> Massages are super intense for me on certain muscles, it doesn't hurt though, it feels like my muscle is a sponge full of lactic acid being squeezed out.



You need to read up on Inflammation because you seems to be confusing that and lactic acid despite having been told you have arthritis and it's genetic in your family.

Benadryl and Tylenol helps with my arthritis, maybe give them a try.


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## Crunchy Oats (Apr 29, 2022)

SphinxItOver said:


> You need to read up on Inflammation because you seems to be confusing that and lactic acid despite having been told you have arthritis and it's genetic in your family.
> 
> Benadryl and Tylenol helps with my arthritis, maybe give them a try.


I checked it out, but I don't seem to have redness, flu symptoms, joint movement issues, and most of the other symptoms besides muscle stiffness, all of that is usually alright. My joints and sore muscles actually feel cold to the touch even when it's warm outside, so perhaps a circulation issue?

It's a lot worse when it's cold outside or when I haven't slept much, and heat helps a lot as well. When I'm working outside, I barely feel any pain because I'm actively moving and stuff, but as soon as I've been sitting too long or not doing much, the pain slowly begins and gets worse, usually starting from my knees.

Maybe it's a mixture of inflammation, lactic acid, circulation, and arthritis? I have no idea. I'll just try to drink more water and keep exercising/rolling like I do already.


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## SphinxItOver (Apr 29, 2022)

Crunchy Oats said:


> I checked it out, but I don't seem to have redness, flu symptoms, joint movement issues, and most of the other symptoms besides muscle stiffness, all of that is usually alright. My joints and sore muscles actually feel cold to the touch even when it's warm outside, so perhaps a circulation issue?
> 
> It's a lot worse when it's cold outside or when I haven't slept much, and heat helps a lot as well.


Arthritis is affected by the cold and heat. It's normal for Rheumatoid to affect other areas than joints. BP plays a roll in 'flushing' and it's also why massaging helps for joints and muscles. If you're convinced it's not inflammation or arthritis maybe go post in the medical advice thread too?


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## thejackal (Apr 29, 2022)

SphinxItOver said:


> From what you provided it sounds more like an inflammation issue than lactic acid.
> 
> 'Fit' doesn't equal 'healthy'. It could be cause by anything from sleep, diet, water intake, sickness, or your bodies realistic exercise and rest needs. Not all bodies are the same. Keep a dot journal for a month, two, or year. Then make sure you correct any issues that are revealed by the journal to a recommended average. Getting full 8hr of sleep, one rest day for every exercise day, recommended daily calories, protein, vitamins, and water. Work on an exclusion/inclusion method from that point.


Yea I would try an anti inflamation diet and some supplements including a multi vitamin and turmeric regime. I would also go get a physical with blood work done and see if anything shows up. You never know could be something shitty like cancer and if you catch it early you'll be thankful.


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## Iron Hamster (Apr 29, 2022)

Crunchy Oats said:


> I can never be rubbed long enough to truly feel better.



random_text material right there


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## Crunchy Oats (Apr 30, 2022)

Iron Hamster said:


> random_text material right there


The best part is that it's still true even out of context


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## EnemyStand (May 2, 2022)

Crunchy Oats said:


> Water is definitely something I need to drink more of, I tend to have 100% juice a lot.


Bruh.

Seriously though, switch out all your juice for water. It helps a lot. Chronic pain sufferers report lower amounts of pain when they drink their 8 glasses a day.

Also your problem is gout. Stop eating so much iron. No I'm not a doctor, but that's why I'm correct.


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## Crunchy Oats (Jun 6, 2022)

EnemyStand said:


> Bruh.
> 
> Seriously though, switch out all your juice for water. It helps a lot. Chronic pain sufferers report lower amounts of pain when they drink their 8 glasses a day.
> 
> Also your problem is gout. Stop eating so much iron. No I'm not a doctor, but that's why I'm correct.


Interesting, my well water has too much iron in it because I'm on an iron band.. hmmm


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## Mr. Brown (Jun 16, 2022)

Get a blood test done, you will have a shortage of something. Possibly magnesium.


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## NoReturn (Jun 17, 2022)

Crunchy Oats said:


> I tried the antidepressants before, but like @Accept Only Substitutes said it kind of sucks and I wasn't really depressed in the first place.
> I do find that the soreness is worse when I'm in a dull mood or low on sleep though.


Buy or pirate a copy of _Why We Sleep _by Matthew Walker. It's an easy read and will give you some useful info to test on yourself.



Crunchy Oats said:


> Water is definitely something I need to drink more of, I tend to have 100% juice a lot.


That is a huge problem. Drink more water-water. The juice is adding sugar into your system, which means you've added it onto the "conveyer belt" of shit your liver is processing. If the issues you're having are from other crap building up in your bloodstream and lymphatic system, then by drinking juice you've just given the liver more to do instead of focusing just on clearing out the existing shit.



Crunchy Oats said:


> Massages are super intense for me on certain muscles, it doesn't hurt though, it feels like my muscle is a sponge full of lactic acid being squeezed out.


It might not be lactic acid, then, it might be that you just have a lot of crap everywhere that isn't being processed. How often do you stretch?


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## Crunchy Oats (Jun 18, 2022)

NoReturn said:


> Buy or pirate a copy of _Why We Sleep _by Matthew Walker. It's an easy read and will give you some useful info to test on yourself.


I'll try that out, thank you - I do think it has something to do with not getting enough sleep, since I feel a lot better when I sleep in for a few days.



NoReturn said:


> That is a huge problem. Drink more water-water. The juice is adding sugar into your system, which means you've added it onto the "conveyer belt" of shit your liver is processing. If the issues you're having are from other crap building up in your bloodstream and lymphatic system, then by drinking juice you've just given the liver more to do instead of focusing just on clearing out the existing shit.


I've been drinking a ton of water recently, and things have been better - I still feel the need to get the "acid" out by squeezing or massaging my muscles (mostly in my legs) - but it's a lot better now at least. I appreciate your perspective on how the liver is processing, it's a good way to imagine how things are working in your body.



NoReturn said:


> It might not be lactic acid, then, it might be that you just have a lot of crap everywhere that isn't being processed. How often do you stretch?


I stretch very often, and also use a hard massage wheel (padded cylinder thing) - I feel much better after massaging it out, but it just comes back. I think you're right about the sleep/water/liver issues.



Mr. Brown said:


> Get a blood test done, you will have a shortage of something. Possibly magnesium.


I recently got a testosterone test, but it wasn't the issue. I'll try to get just a regular screening soon, I just haven't had the time to go to the doctor yet.

Thank you to everyone who attempted to throw some advice my way, I've definitely been thinking about it this entire time.


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## NoReturn (Jun 18, 2022)

Crunchy Oats said:


> I've been drinking a ton of water recently, and things have been better - I still feel the need to get the "acid" out by squeezing or massaging my muscles (mostly in my legs) - but it's a lot better now at least. I appreciate your perspective on how the liver is processing, it's a good way to imagine how things are working in your body.


The massage thing actually gives us another clue!
You have two major "plumbing" systems in your body, your circulatory system, and your lymphatic system.






Thing is, while our circulatory system has the heart to pump and regulate the flow of blood, we have no analogous organ for our lymphatic system. You have to physically move your body to get the liquid to move through it. That might be why the massage is helping. You're physically moving things enough to get the crap out.


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## Flavius Claudius Julianus (Jun 18, 2022)

Fibromyalgia isn't real.

I've known quite a few people who worked physical jobs/did physical activity recreationally, but didn't have a diet which supported their activity. Essentially what happens over time is their body isn't recovering, and everything hurts. The modern soy/artificial shit diet is sufficient for people who do zero physical activity. But if you're remotely active (especially in the resistance training way) then you NEED to be eating a diet commensurate with that mode of living. 

Experienced it myself.


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## Crunchy Oats (Jun 19, 2022)

NoReturn said:


> The massage thing actually gives us another clue!
> You have two major "plumbing" systems in your body, your circulatory system, and your lymphatic system.
> View attachment 3401081
> 
> ...


That's interesting, I never thought of the lymphatic system, I'll look into that more. I'd say it does move the crap out when massaging, and it's often back again by the next day. Do you know what the 'crap' is? I've heard of it referred to as 'toxins' but that never really gave me much of a mental image for what is actually going on inside of the body. I'm guessing it's mostly in my legs because of gravity in some way, and because I sit at the computer a lot when I'm not working hard outside, so it probably cuts off some circulation when I'm sitting. Everything feels good when moving in general.



Flavius Claudius Julianus said:


> Fibromyalgia isn't real.
> 
> I've known quite a few people who worked physical jobs/did physical activity recreationally, but didn't have a diet which supported their activity. Essentially what happens over time is their body isn't recovering, and everything hurts. The modern soy/artificial shit diet is sufficient for people who do zero physical activity. But if you're remotely active (especially in the resistance training way) then you NEED to be eating a diet commensurate with that mode of living.
> 
> Experienced it myself.


I believe it, someone I live with doesn't do a lot of resistance training in any way, and they never feel muscle soreness and actually hate massages, they say it feels like squeezing healthy muscle when they get massaged. They're also a woman, not sure if that matters lol.

Meanwhile I am constantly running/lifting/challenging myself with more, which probably is adding to that 'unable to repair quick enough' thing. I've been feeling the lack of a good diet recently because I've been working a lot harder than usual. Most of the time, I try to down a few eggs in the morning (either scrambled or raw mixed with milk/vanilla extract) which gets me going, but I haven't sustained eating a protein rich diet during the day/night. I found myself craving tuna, but didn't have any - I eat that stuff raw.


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## NoReturn (Jun 19, 2022)

Flavius Claudius Julianus said:


> Fibromyalgia isn't real.
> 
> I've known quite a few people who worked physical jobs/did physical activity recreationally, but didn't have a diet which supported their activity. Essentially what happens over time is their body isn't recovering, and everything hurts. The modern soy/artificial shit diet is sufficient for people who do zero physical activity. But if you're remotely active (especially in the resistance training way) then you NEED to be eating a diet commensurate with that mode of living.
> 
> Experienced it myself.


Please do go on.



Crunchy Oats said:


> That's interesting, I never thought of the lymphatic system, I'll look into that more. I'd say it does move the crap out when massaging, and it's often back again by the next day. Do you know what the 'crap' is? I've heard of it referred to as 'toxins' but that never really gave me much of a mental image for what is actually going on inside of the body.


You're right that "toxins" is kind of a useless word, especially since hippy-types use it without defining what they're talking about. In this case the toxins in question are waste products from things like fighting off infections and even just normal metabolic activity. As an example, let's look at the immune system component.
Here's a video of a white blood cell chasing down bacteria:




and here are some fighting a fungus




When our immune system wins, those bacteria and fungi corpses don't get erased from existence. We need to clean up the leftovers, so the white blood cells carry things to the lymph nodes to be cleaned up.
A really good comparison I've seen is to greaywater systems in buildings. If things aren't flowing properly, then you get pools of gross, stale water sitting around; but if they are working properly, that stuff gets washed out.



Crunchy Oats said:


> I'm guessing it's mostly in my legs because of gravity in some way, and because I sit at the computer a lot when I'm not working hard outside, so it probably cuts off some circulation when I'm sitting. Everything feels good when moving in general.



There are a lot of lymph noes in your groin and hips, so if you sit a lot (or sit in a chair that's kind of weird) then yeah, stuff can build up there.


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## ExsanguinateHorizon (Jun 21, 2022)

It sounds woowoo but you might want to look into turmeric+curcumin supplements. They've helped a couple people I know with inflammatory pain and even if it's a placebo effect the relief from the constant pain is worth it for them. They're not too expensive and I think it's worth trying to find some kind of relief for your chronic pain without having to turn to opioids or surgery.


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