# Should immigrants of any kind be made to speak English?



## Iwasamwillbe (Nov 5, 2019)

I am a native-born Californian, who often takes walks around Los Angeles County, where I live.

More times than I could count during these walks, I come across people of clearly Hispanic or Latin American ethic grouping who cannot even speak English, but only Spanish.

I have also noticed that in the several areas I have been in that are Hispanic (I refer to them as "Mexicotowns"), there are at least one or two stores that fly the Mexican flag. Such stores almost certainly contain illegal immigrants, and I believe that I should have notified ICE about them. These Mexicotowns also happen to be some of the dirtiest, dumpiest, and dingiest places in the state, being just above ghettos in quality (I once saw a huge pile of dog shit that just sat in the street in a Mexicotown; it disgusted me to no end).

A memorable event happened when I asked for something in a Mexicotown, but the store's owner didn't speak English, so she had to get her daughter to be an interpreter for her. Right then and there is when it truly stuck for me how bad the problems California had with illegal immigration, because no legal immigrant comes into America long enough to open a store and yet not speak English.

I believe that the lack of a common language between these Mexicotowns and the rest of America contributes in many ways to the poor state of these areas, and all effort should be made to enforce the teaching of English in those areas.

However, there is also the problem of all the illegal immigrants in those Mexicotowns that have to be deported. ICE would have to do massive raids, and California state legislators would likely make attempts to block them.

So the question is, should we enforce English first, or should we do the mass deportations first, or should we do both simultaneously?

Either way, we should expect much caterwauling from people disproportionately sympathetic to the "plight" of illegal immigrants.


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## BingBong (Nov 5, 2019)

Yes, of course.






Integralist-chan is best.


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## Thumb Butler (Nov 5, 2019)

Do you really think the ICE doesn't already know about the ghettos with illegals? Problems is, they are too busy harassing transgender people who steal money from charities.


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## break these cuffs (Nov 5, 2019)

> So the question is, should we enforce English first, or should we do the mass deportations first, or should we do both simultaneously?


Neither of these will ever happen no matter who is president because cheap labor and a disenfranchised population who is easy to control is the name of the game.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

Yes, a country should have one language used in official business. It doesn't have to be enforced at all times, especially in private, but there shouldn't be a hodgepodge of languages making things into a clusterfuck. The language taught in schools should be that language, and anyone suggesting that we should be allowing students to take classes in a foreign language should be laughed at and ostracized, especially in regards to those Chinese funded schools and programs. I would start with teaching English first, because many of those kids are citizens, whether we like it or not.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Nov 5, 2019)

Too late now.


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## Recoil (Nov 5, 2019)

Immigrants should be speaking english, but that's not gonna happen because corporations got a hold of the issue before anyone else did and started putting "Prime numero dos para espanol" in the phone menus and "información nutricional" on the packaging, effectively pre-empting any such initiative before English even had a chance.

Of course, they were doing so to capture a market, but the point stands.


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## No Exit (Nov 5, 2019)

> So the question is, should we enforce English first, or should we do the mass deportations first, or should we do both simultaneously?


Neither one would work now but a some sneaky propaganda could work if you did both at the same time, at least for the Mexicans.

You'd want to have ICE start heavily cracking down on all immigrants, especially those that speak Spanish.  Like @Recoil brought up about having Spanish written on everything, that would have to be stopped. Speaking Spanish would have to be seen as negative by all of society so the Mexicans would want to speak English as well as possible, just to try and not stand out.  
The largest issue with this is that it basically becomes a racial divide thing, which is impossible to try and do in current year +4.


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## Rand /pol/ (Nov 5, 2019)

Everyone should speak English regardless of nationality.


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## REGENDarySumanai (Nov 5, 2019)

English is the international language of business and not learning English means that you will basically shut yourself out to huge swaths of the world's population. It also has other repercussions such as not being able to browse slightly over half of the Internet, due to the fact that 52% of the Internet's content is in English. Also, forcing people to speak English in America spits in the face of America not having an official national language.


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## A Welsh Cake (Nov 5, 2019)

English should be learned, not because it's English but because it is THE international language. If it were Chinese, Spanish, Italian or German (not French though) I would argue the same for those languages.
This is ignoring the idea of not speaking English in America. I wouldn't dream of emigrating to another country without learning the language to a somewhat competent degree; I'd be attending language classes after work.


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## LazyLizard (Nov 5, 2019)

kick out all the mexicans then invade mexico and force them to adopt english as it's official language


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## Stranger Neighbors (Nov 5, 2019)

Ideally people should speak English to the level of _some _competency, but I agree with @ConfederateIrishman s late rating because the time for that (and some other coastal places like Florida) is over, sanctuary cities Lowering any semblance of standards, it's 100% over, start investing in your Rosetta Stone Spanish now faggots 

all I have to say is:
_Muy Malos_


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## Franjevina (Nov 5, 2019)

No .

Because immigrants of any kind shouldn't be allowed in first place .


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## murgatroid (Nov 5, 2019)

In Miami it's almost a requirement you have to speak spanish for a job.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Nov 5, 2019)

At my old retail job we had a 24/7 telephone line we could call where they would be able to translate nearly any language for foreign customers.

In the 14 years I was there, I don't recall it being used once.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

REGENDarySumanai said:


> Also, forcing people to speak English in America spits in the face of America not having an official national language.


The US wouldn't be able to operate without a language that everyone speaks in the public sector. And since the founder's time, education has been consolidated in the public sphere, and curriculums are often standardized. What language do they teach in that standardized curriculum? The language the country was founded with and the Constitution was written in.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> The US wouldn't be able to operate without a language that everyone speaks in the public sector. And since the founder's time, education has been consolidated in the public sphere, and curriculums are often standardized. What language do they teach in that standardized curriculum? The language the country was founded with and the Constitution was written in.


America really should have had a national language tbh; French as a secondary language in Louisiana for its French colonial roots.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

ConfederateIrishman said:


> America really should have had a national language tbh; French as a secondary language in Louisiana for its French colonial roots.


Thirty one states, including California, have already declared English their official language. When the House tried to do it in the mid-2000s people whined and complained and nothing got done. On a related note, Louisiana is one of those states, and French is also acknowledged.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

No, America is comprised of immigrants and english isn’t even this region’s original native tongue.  Nobody should be forced to assimilate beyond obeying US law and whatever they need to learn to work and eat and shop.  Our differences are what make life interesting.


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## Lemmingwise (Nov 5, 2019)

No country should ever have such amounts of immigration that it becomes useless to learn english for the immigrants.

People only integrate if they have no other choice and they only have no other choice if immigration is rare enough that they'll have maybe one or two people from the same background in the same village or up to about 30 people from the same background in the same city. Yes I pulled these numbers out of my ass, just like my opinion. It's still roughly accurate.

Immigrants used to learn the language from local tv, but internet and satellite dishes allow people to access TV from their origin country.

There is no cleaning-up mexican towns unless you're talking about ethnic cleaning and bring them back from where they came from.


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## Stranger Neighbors (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> No, America is comprised of immigrants and english isn’t even this region’s original native tongue.  Nobody should be forced to assimilate beyond obeying US law and whatever they need to learn to work and eat and shop.  Our differences are what make life interesting.


"The orginal tongue" it never had one my friend, Indigenous people for the most part couldn't communicate because they had so many different tribes and subsects of the same tribes that couldn't even speak. I dated an indigenous chick who's father couldn't talk with his own grandmother because his father taught him a different dialect/version of the language. I know many people find it is poetic that certain Lakota languages have 20+ words for Love but that's because there are like over ten off shoots of the same language.

Now tell me I took the bait and rate me Autistic


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

Stranger Neighbors said:


> "The orginal tongue" it never had one my friend,


So it wasn’t english, like I said.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> So it wasn’t english, like I said.


Go ahead and take a look at the Constitution, my friend. Report back what language it's written in.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> Go ahead and take a look at the Constitution, my friend. Report back what language it's written in.


Does that make it the original language of the region?  No?  Then it isn’t relevant to my point.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> Does that make it the original language of the region? No? Then it isn’t relevant to my point.


By that logic German shouldn't be the official language of Germany despite being used on every official document in the country, and should be proto-Germanic instead. Or Sweden's official language should be one of the many Sami languages. Your argument makes no sense and you should feel bad.


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## Stranger Neighbors (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> So it wasn’t english, like I said.


Damn bro _dab 420 _
Gotem

So you agree that English was the first Unifying standard in the U.S. or the first "native tongue" was

A) no language

Or B) thousands of Dead languages

(You will not be penalized for guessing)


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## Oskar Dirlewanger (Nov 5, 2019)

English is shit, it should be eradicated with vocal cord parasites like in Metal Gear Solid, but since we don't have the technology yet, the next best thing we can hope for is "white" americans slowly dying off and Spanish becoming the dominant language of North America.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

Oskar Dirlewanger said:


> English is shit, it should be eradicated with vocal cord parasites like in Metal Gear Solid, but since we don't have the technology yet, the next best thing we can hope for is "white" americans slowly dying off and Spanish becoming the dominant language of North America.


Don't worry, kraut, German won't be far behind.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> Your argument makes no sense and you should feel bad.


My argument is 100% still standing.  Bonus points if you can show me where in the Constitution it says everyone needs to speak english.


Stranger Neighbors said:


> So you agree that English was the first Unifying standard in the U.S. or the first "native tongue" was
> 
> A) no language
> 
> Or B) thousands of Dead languages


No.  I said none of those things.  English not being the original language was a throwaway preface to everything else I said.  There are no straws to grasp there.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> My argument is 100% still standing. Bonus points if you can show me where in the Constitution it says everyone needs to speak english.


The Constitution explicitly states in Article 1 Section 8 that everything having to do with naturalization falls under the power of Congress. We didn't have national parks until 1871 either, genius.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> We didn't have national parks until 1871 either, genius.


Oh shit, if I’d argued that we had natural parks before 1871, I’d feel pretty dumb right about now.  But I didn’t, so...


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> Oh shit, if I’d argued that we had natural parks before 1871, I’d feel pretty dumb right about now.  But I didn’t, so...


I'm pointing out that your condemnation of having in "official language" makes no sense. English is the language used in every founding document of the United States, an actually defined nation, so your statement about languages before English has nothing to do with anything. English is the official language of 31 states. Article 9 doesn't restrict Congress from making an official language any more than it restricts them from making official parks, or mottoes, or anthems. Tons of what is now codified into US law wasn't in the original Constitution so saying "it's not explicitly in the Constitution" is a terrible legal argument.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> I'm pointing out that your condemnation of having in "official language" makes no sense.


I didn’t condemn having an official language.  I said we shouldn’t force immigrants to learn english.


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## Mewtwo_Rain (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> No, America is comprised of immigrants and english isn’t even this region’s original native tongue.  Nobody should be forced to assimilate beyond obeying US law and whatever they need to learn to work and eat and shop.  Our differences are what make life interesting.




The problem is what happens when EMTs and more are required to learn 200+ languages (note; This is impossible) and then someone is having a heart attack or needs to relinquish information to the EMT to save their life. 

You can get away with that argument when there are only let's say 2 languages or maybe even up to 3-4. As you keep letting in more and more people you will then create a burden on those who do not speak multiple languages, and would then direct away from their way of life.


This nonsensical and Utopian "Everyone should be able to speak every language." In a country can only lead to division, anger, and sooner or later resentment which will lead to violent conflicts and then one language will remain dominant. The simpler solution is force conformity now, or lead to bloodshed of innocents. I think the former is a better solution than the latter.

Just imagine if certain jobs require in the future when less English speakers remain to know English to you know maintain a nuclear silo, or something similar. What then?


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> I didn’t condemn having an official language.  I said we shouldn’t force immigrants to learn english.


I'm sorry, dude, but learning and knowing English is part of the naturalization requirements. Has been for ages. The USCIS very fairly gives exemptions for permanent residents over 50. Most education systems don't have the money to accommodate for even two languages, and they shouldn't have to, so the students learn English. All of this is basic civics.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> I'm sorry, dude, but learning and knowing English is part of the naturalization requirements.


Then what’s the point of this thread?


Mewtwo_Rain said:


> The problem is what happens when EMTs and more are required to learn 200+ languages


don’t require them to.  People deserve the freedom to keep their own language and any risks that come with it.  If they want to communicate with an EMT, they should have to learn how.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Nov 5, 2019)

ConfederateIrishman said:


> America really should have had a national language tbh; French as a secondary language in Louisiana for its French colonial roots.



But also Spanish in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California; maybe Colorado too.


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## Mewtwo_Rain (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> Then what’s the point of this thread?
> 
> don’t require them to.  People deserve the freedom to keep their own language and any risks that come with it.  If they want to communicate with an EMT, they should have to learn how.


I understand your argument, but isn't that being naive, what happens when they sue the EMT companies for not knowing the language, and then the government forces EMTs to learn that language? You just think that these groups are going to shoulder the blame for their own actions or inactions?

The Black and Hispanic community alone disprove this notion. In this regard it's a literal slippery slope. That's not to say people can't use their own language, but they should have incentive's to use the universal (adopted) language that is the major.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> Then what’s the point of this thread?


Illegal immigrants are skipping the naturalization process and not learning English, dumbass.



Ughubughughughughughghlug said:


> But also Spanish in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California; maybe Colorado too.


See, that's completely fair.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> what happens when they sue the EMT companies for not knowing the language,


In my hypothetical scenario, they lose.


HeyYou said:


> Illegal immigrants are skipping the naturalization process and not learning English


we should be deporting people who are here illegally


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> we should be deporting people who are here illegally


Well, there you go. That's what the thread was asking. I actually gave a nicer answer and said we should teach them and especially their citizen children English and maybe help a few of them out in the naturalization process.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> Well, there you go. That's what the thread was asking. I actually gave a nicer answer and said we should teach them English and maybe help a few of them out in the naturalization process.


Fuck that, they can get in line like everyone else.  That said, the process for entering legally should be streamlined for people coming from dangerous areas (like Mexico) and nobody should be forced to learn english, or be forced to accommodate those who refuse to learn it.


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## Mewtwo_Rain (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> In my hypothetical scenario, they lose.
> 
> we should be deporting people who are here illegally



I understand, in the hypothetical you create that happens, but we're already seeing Spanish is required to be an EMT in many states. Which means the slippery slope I mentioned is already occurring. More or less my argument is, if this slippery slope has already started as I've argued then what stops it from expanding with more languages? Let alone it's showing the Spanish speaking community are forcing their language in the states.


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## HeyYou (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> Fuck that, they can get in line like everyone else. That said, the process for entering legally should be streamlined for people coming from dangerous areas and nobody should be forced to learn english, or be forced to accommodate thosewjo refuse to learn it. Your solution makes no sense and helps neither side. At least forcing immigrants to learn English or teaching public sector workers some Spanish are both solutions that can be argued for.


Yeah, and they shouldn't have to learn about American history, either. Just let everyone in! I'm seriously wondering if you know how any immigration process that currently exists works. European countries require the same thing. Once again, it is literally basic civics.



Mewtwo_Rain said:


> but we're already seeing Spanish is required to be an EMT in many states


Really? I thought they only needed to know a few phrases.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> More or less my argument is, if this slippery slope has already started as I've argued then what stops it from expanding with more languages?


More languages should be added until it’s so overwhelming that it’s dropped entirely.  This country always needs to take things to ridiculous extremes before it learns its lesson.  We saw it with ANTIFA, with SJWs, and with the entertainment industry tailoring American art to appeal to China.  We need to get as ridiculous and blatant with it as possible, then the problem will fix itself.


HeyYou said:


> I'm seriously wondering if you know how any immigration process that currently exists works.


If it’s more complicated than hopping a fence or digging a tunnel, I haven’t done it yet.


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## Mewtwo_Rain (Nov 5, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> Yeah, and they shouldn't have to learn about American history, either. Just let everyone in! I'm seriously wondering if you know how any immigration process that currently exists works. European countries require the same thing. Once again, it is literally basic civics.
> 
> 
> Really? I thought they only needed to know a few phrases.


From what I recall hearing California  was enforcing it. Texas IIRC was only reinforcing they learn a few phrases, but again you're still requiring them to learn parts of the language. A few other states I've heard a mix in regards to it. Here, in my state they don't have it yet, but considering we're a sanctuary state won't be surprised if they enforce it soon too.


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## Mewtwo_Rain (Nov 5, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> More languages should be added until it’s so overwhelming that it’s dropped entirely.  This country always needs to take things to ridiculous extremes before it learns its lesson.  We saw it with ANTIFA, with SJWs, and with the entertainment industry tailoring American art to appeal to China.  We need to get as ridiculous and blatant with it as possible, then the problem will fix itself.
> 
> If it’s more complicated than hopping a fence or digging a tunnel, I haven’t done it yet.


Ah, well if by what you say you're implying accelerationism I don't agree with doing that, but I can't fault your argument because you are correct in that regard. It won't be a good fix, but I guess we will have to all learn a lesson in that regard.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 5, 2019)

Mewtwo_Rain said:


> Ah, well if by what you say you're implying accelerationism I don't agree with doing that, but I can't fault your argument because you are correct in that regard. It won't be a good fix, but I guess we will have to all learn a lesson in that regard.


our government lacks common sense so it compensates by learning everything the hard way.  One day someone who only speaks ancient Hebrew will have a heart attack and then the problem will be solved shortly after.


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## millais (Nov 5, 2019)

We should give Google 100 billion dollars to make a universal translator kit for the smartphone, so we can understand the Mexicans without having to learn their language.


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## AnimeGirlConnoisseur (Nov 5, 2019)

Recoil said:


> Immigrants should be speaking english, but that's not gonna happen because corporations got a hold of the issue before anyone else did and started putting "Prime numero dos para espanol" in the phone menus and "información nutricional" on the packaging, effectively pre-empting any such initiative before English even had a chance.
> 
> Of course, they were doing so to capture a market, but the point stands.





Lemmingwise said:


> No country should ever have such amounts of immigration that it becomes useless to learn english for the immigrants.
> 
> People only integrate if they have no other choice and they only have no other choice if immigration is rare enough that they'll have maybe one or two people from the same background in the same village or up to about 30 people from the same background in the same city. Yes I pulled these numbers out of my ass, just like my opinion. It's still roughly accurate.
> 
> ...


Gee, it's almost like large, often multi-national corporations and the people that control them aren't interested in furthering the interests of the nations they came from. It's almost like these people will always end up serving the globo-homo agenda.


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## millais (Nov 5, 2019)

AnimeGirlConnoisseur said:


> Gee, it's almost like large, often multi-national corporations and the people that control them aren't interested in furthering the interests of the nations they came from. It's almost like these people will always end up serving the globo-homo agenda.


The labor costs can drop even further if society can be restructured so that English language competency is no longer a barrier to Spics from entering the workforce or consumer market.


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## AnimeGirlConnoisseur (Nov 5, 2019)

millais said:


> The labor costs can drop even further if society can be restructured so that English language competency is no longer a barrier to Spics from entering the workforce or consumer market.


Why should either of those things happen? Ideally, spics would be in Mexico and central America where they could contribute to the economy without worrying about English and America would leave them alone. If America has shortages in its labor pool then those shortages should be solved by migrant laborers who are expected to return to their homelands, automation, a small number of legal immigrants, and laws that incentivize natives to have more children.


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## Damn Near (Nov 5, 2019)

I'll donate $5000 to anyone who can teach puerto ricans to speak english without having them sound like whiny re.tards after it's all done with


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## Iwasamwillbe (Nov 6, 2019)

@Senior Lexmechanic do you have any suggestions you would like to add?


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Nov 6, 2019)

Iwasamwillbe said:


> @Senior Lexmechanic do you have any suggestions you would like to add?


No one should be "forced" to speak English (like, how would that even work?) but moving to a country without learning the language is a bad idea.
Also trying to bait one of the site's libs into an argument so your thread stays bumped is weak.


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## SilkGnut (Nov 6, 2019)

It all depends what the goal is. Having a second language in a country is absolutely wonderful when it comes to being able to use targeted messaging that would otherwise piss people off if they understood it. 

For a country divided it is best to keep citizens from communicating in as many ways as possible.


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## HeyYou (Nov 6, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> No one should be "forced" to speak English (like, how would that even work?) but moving to a country without learning the language is a bad idea.


There's an English section in the naturalization tests, if you don't know English and aren't over 50 you're not going to do so well.


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 6, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> Also trying to bait one of the site's libs into an argument so your thread stays bumped is weak.


Is not!


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## Iwasamwillbe (Nov 6, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> No one should be "forced" to speak English (like, how would that even work?)


Have you ever heard of "citizen, speak Turkish"?



Senior Lexmechanic said:


> Also trying to bait one of the site's libs into an argument so your thread stays bumped is weak.


And yet you still responded to what you saw as obvious bait.


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Nov 6, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> There's an English section in the naturalization tests, if you don't know English and aren't over 50 you're not going to do so well.





Iwasamwillbe said:


> Have you ever heard of "citizen, speak Turkish"?


The first one isn't forcing anyone to do anything, and the second would be a gross violation of First Amendment rights in the US.


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## HeyYou (Nov 6, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> The first one isn't forcing anyone to do anything, and the second would be a gross violation of First Amendment rights in the US.


How is that not forcing immigrants to learn English when you have to pass an English portion of a naturalization test to even become a citizen?


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## KimCoppolaAficionado (Nov 7, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> How is that not forcing immigrants to learn English when you have to pass an English portion of a naturalization test to even become a citizen?


Not "learn".  "Speak".  There's a difference between a citizenship test requiring you to know the _lingua franca_ of the country and having patrols going around harassing you if you're speaking another language in public.


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## HeyYou (Nov 7, 2019)

Senior Lexmechanic said:


> Not "learn". "Speak". There's a difference between a citizenship test requiring you to know the _lingua franca_ of the country and having patrols going around harassing you if you're speaking another language in public.


The OP is about illegal immigrants who don't know English _at all_ and should be learning it. It explicitly asks what we should do about teaching it, since "speak" is also colloquially known to mean "be fluent in the language".


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## heyilikeyourmom (Nov 7, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> when you have to pass an English portion of a naturalization test to even become a citizen?


That part should be removed.


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## HeyYou (Nov 7, 2019)

heyilikeyourmom said:


> That part should be removed.


Didn't you say accommodation for an insane amount of languages shouldn't be done? How many translators and rewriters do you need to hire to do this? If you want to be a full citizen, you need to go the extra mile and know English. Otherwise, you can stay a permanent resident and have citizen children.


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## Atatata (Nov 9, 2019)

Having to learn english for a test you only need to take once is not learning the language, and Ive known many who immediately forgot it as soon as it was completed.

That being said, calling ICE  won't do shit, the majority are natural born citizens, their parents just teach them only Spanish because they find english both hard and unappealing. They figure that the school system will teach them english just fine, which is why you have this sort of shit happening.


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## The best and greatest (Nov 12, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> Illegal immigrants are skipping the naturalization process and not learning English, dumbass.


In my experience immigrants often DO learn English...But unless you're a child when you come here, you'll probably never speak it fluently without years and years of practice. Older immigrants do the best they can to get by and simply prefer their mother-tongue as a matter of convenience, but when they have children, those children usually grow up to be Bilingual, with more and more foreign-tongue being lost to time as the generations progress.

Its strange to see this become such an issue in the political sphere over the years because outside of protester busy-bodies I've never really experienced or witnessed this large-scale resistance to the English language.


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## Manwithn0n0men (Nov 12, 2019)

The best and greatest said:


> In my experience immigrants often DO learn English...But unless you're a child when you come here, you'll probably never speak it fluently without years and years of practice. Older immigrants do the best they can to get by and simply prefer their mother-tongue as a matter of convenience, but when they have children, those children usually grow up to be Bilingual, with more and more foreign-tongue being lost to time as the generations progress.
> 
> Its strange to see this become such an issue in the political sphere over the years because outside of protester busy-bodies I've never really experienced or witnessed this large-scale resistance to the English language.



Also they speak english very well but choose not to [as a rule] because they can get away with more stuff when people think they are ignorant


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## murdered meat bag (Nov 12, 2019)

HeyYou said:


> Didn't you say accommodation for an insane amount of languages shouldn't be done? How many translators and rewriters do you need to hire to do this? If you want to be a full citizen, you need to go the extra mile and know English. Otherwise, you can stay a permanent resident and have citizen children.



you can bring your own translator to naturalization tests. they can feed you the answers.


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## Chamulum (Nov 12, 2019)

If Trump makes English the official US language I'm voting for him in 2020.


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## オウム 2 (Nov 12, 2019)

The best and greatest said:


> In my experience immigrants often DO learn English...But unless you're a child when you come here, you'll probably never speak it fluently without years and years of practice. Older immigrants do the best they can to get by and simply prefer their mother-tongue as a matter of convenience, but when they have children, those children usually grow up to be Bilingual, with more and more foreign-tongue being lost to time as the generations progress.
> 
> Its strange to see this become such an issue in the political sphere over the years because outside of protester busy-bodies I've never really experienced or witnessed this large-scale resistance to the English language.


Of course many speak English but I still see cases where the parents use their kids as a translator. Had a job in highschool at a factory, majority of the workers were Mexican, and the overseer was bilingual Mexican-American so they didn't need English at work and spoke Spanish all day, pretty sure most of them were the same people who have their kid translate any important documents they receive in the mail, translate for them when buying a bus ticket, at the grocery counter etc. I don't expect anyone to speak perfect English but having your kid do all the work is kind of shitty.


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## The best and greatest (Nov 12, 2019)

オウム 2 said:


> Of course many speak English but I still see cases where the parents use their kids as a translator. Had a job in highschool at a factory, majority of the workers were Mexican, and the overseer was bilingual Mexican-American so they didn't need English at work and spoke Spanish all day, pretty sure most of them were the same people who have their kid translate any important documents they receive in the mail, translate for them when buying a bus ticket, at the grocery counter etc. I don't expect anyone to speak perfect English but having your kid do all the work is kind of shitty.


I dunno, comming from Latin-America with questionable education and limited marketable skills probably explains a lot of that. I don't want to make excuses for people not willing to put the work in to learn to read and write English since I think being able to do those two things specifically should be the bare minimum but to a certain extent I do think this is kinda like telling a fired coal miner to just learn to code. 

Sometimes you really can't teach an old dog new tricks because some new tricks take years of dedicated learning and practice to master, especially if your education is dubious or non-existent to begin with, which might explain why immigrants from across the ocean who are more usually middle-class/affluent don't have the same problem picking up the language within a single generation since they come from more well educated backgrounds than people from south of the border and may in fact already be familiar with it before they come here. An immigrant from Hong Kong probably speaks English already because HK was historically a British port.


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## Marco Fucko (Nov 12, 2019)

Immigrants should be deported for being any combination of brown and socialist.


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## Spastic Colon (Nov 12, 2019)

In my kid's school district, the back to school night for parents is also conducted separately in both Spanish and Arabic because of the number of immigrant kids that go there.  I think it is nice that they offer this, but that's an additional expense to communicate with the parents.  That also means that teachers need an interpreter if they need to speak with some parents who aren't fluent in English. And you can't always rely on your kid to translate if the teacher is telling you about a problem with your kid.

I think every immigrant should learn to speak English so that they can communicate when needed in English.  I don't care if 99% of the time they choose to speak their mother tongue, but you should learn the language well enough to communicate basic information if you plan on living here.  If I moved to another country, I would not expect everyone to accommodate me with English (though I'm lucky English is spoken in many different countries).  I would expect that I need to study it until I am fluent in the basics needed for every day communication.  I should be able to shop, navigate, fill out forms, etc.  I consider it disrespectful to move to a country and not try to assimilate as best you can.  You don't have to give up your traditions or culture, but you need to find a way merge the two.


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## Nonconsentual Pronouns (Nov 12, 2019)

Both, but easily the most important part would be to clean out the invaders. I don't see either thing happening based on some things said in previous posts, unfortunately. My condolences for basically being made to live in Mexico within your own country. They should be made to move in order to fix your situation, not you.


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## Mrs Paul (Nov 12, 2019)

Forced, no.  _Encouraged_ -- yes.     At least to _learn_ English.  If people want to speak their native language amongst themselves, I really don't give a shit.
Forcing people to learn something never really works out well.  I hate to do that whole, "positive thinking", but you know, you catch more flies with honey.


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## millais (Nov 12, 2019)

Mrs Paul said:


> Forced, no.  _Encouraged_ -- yes.     At least to _learn_ English.  If people want to speak their native language amongst themselves, I really don't give a shit.
> Forcing people to learn something never really works out well.  I hate to do that whole, "positive thinking", but you know, you catch more flies with honey.


We should definitely force literacy on them. We can't expect these Third World Guatemalans and Nicaraguans to learn English if they can't even read and write their native Spanish to begin with. It's too big of a jump to expect illiterate Hispanophone illegals to fill out job applications and shit in English, they have to start with the Spanish first.

I heard some very convincing arguments that the bilingual education method is a good one for assimilating the first generation illegals. Start off teaching them the basics of reading and writing in their native Spanish, then when they have a functional grasp of literacy, you can start to spring the English language education on them and slowly wean them off the Spanish for the remainder of their education. If you drop them right off into the deep end on day one, they're fucked and you've wasted their formative years of schooling.


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## Jester69 (Nov 12, 2019)

If they don't learn the language the chance they will intermix will be lower. If you don't want your grandchildren to look like brown sludge, I'd say you should be happy they do not speak English.


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## Dwight Frye (Nov 12, 2019)

Force them to? No. But we shouldn't bend over backwards either if they make the choice not to adapt to the country they're immigrating to. If I were visiting or immigrating to Mexico, I'd make an effort to learn Spanish because that's what the majority of them speak, I'm coming to their country and I'd like to try and fit in rather than be seen as that lazy gringo who refuses to assimilate into my new culture. I wouldn't speak as proficiently as a native, but I'd still learn the language and do my best. 

It kinda annoys me when I see immigrants using their grade school children as translators because they're too lazy/stubborn to learn the language that the majority of Americans speak. It annoys me seeing people who can barely speak more than one or two English sentences put into positions where they deal with a wide variety of people, and their refusal to learn the language or grow more fluent leads to misinformation being given, incredibly slow wait times ect...


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## Slap47 (Nov 16, 2019)

Language laws are a dangerous precedent that America should avoid. You'll get communities voting to speak Spanish and Chinese instead of just doing it in private schools. 



The best and greatest said:


> In my experience immigrants often DO learn English...But unless you're a child when you come here, you'll probably never speak it fluently without years and years of practice. Older immigrants do the best they can to get by and simply prefer their mother-tongue as a matter of convenience, but when they have children, those children usually grow up to be Bilingual, with more and more foreign-tongue being lost to time as the generations progress.
> 
> Its strange to see this become such an issue in the political sphere over the years because outside of protester busy-bodies I've never really experienced or witnessed this large-scale resistance to the English language.



Talk about forcing people to do something and they make it a political statement and do it even mor. 

This is a story as old as time.


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## Terrorist (Nov 17, 2019)

Yeah I guess but lol if you think language is the issue with mass immigration. If every one of them spoke perfect english they'd still be impossible to assimilate. Lots of blacks from like Nigeria and shit are native english speakers, would you want them here?


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