# Transitioning



## Chiang Kai-shek (Dec 18, 2016)

The recent threads on Trans parenting mom and Milo Stewart got me thinking about the concept of transitioning. Is it really a good idea? While it does have the potential to cure dysphoria it comes with a very long list of downsides (many of which are likeky to permanently fuck you up) and is irreversible. So I'm asking this: is going through the process of transitioning a good idea despite the massive health risks? Should it be banned as a medical practice, allowed only under certain circumstances, or continued as is? Any other thoughts on transitioning are welcome and encouraged.


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## Lurkman (Dec 18, 2016)

It's probably not a good idea and Milo Stewart would be making a horrible mistake if she/he/it tried to change genders


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## Squealer (Dec 18, 2016)

I am transitioning to learning how to use a revolver


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## John Furrman (Dec 18, 2016)

I'm transitioning to second gear. I am trans-mission. Please donate to my patreon.


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## Electric Eye (Dec 18, 2016)

PortsideDave said:


> So I'm asking this: is going through the process of transitioning a good idea despite the massive health risks?



Hell of a question. One of the most prominent studies about this exact topic (that I'm aware of) had this to say about it:


> "325 consecutive adolescent and adult applicants for sex reassignment participated: 222 started hormone treatment, 103 did not; 188 completed and 34 dropped out of treatment. Only data of the 162 adults were used to evaluate treatment. Results between subgroups were compared to determine post-operative differences. Adults and adolescents were included to study predictors of treatment course and outcome."
> 
> "...After treatment the group was no longer gender dysphoric. The vast majority functioned quite well psychologically, socially and sexually. Two non-homosexual male-to-female transsexuals expressed regrets."
> 
> "...The results substantiate previous conclusions that sex reassignment is effective. Still, clinicians need to be alert for non-homosexual male-to-females with unfavourable psychological functioning and physical appearance and inconsistent gender dysphoria reports, as these are risk factors for dropping out and poor post-operative results. If they are considered eligible, they may require additional therapeutic guidance during or even after treatment."



I haven't read the Milo Stewart thread (or know who they are) so I can't really say anything about them.


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## sapir&worf (Dec 18, 2016)

On the whole 'trans children' debate, the hormone blocker drug they use can have some awful side effects and is really not safe. Adult women who have taken it for endometriosis have reported general permanent nastiness after taking the drug- it can wear down bone and one woman ended up with a massive bone cyst years later in her hip where the injections were given.

https://www.nwhn.org/lupron-what-does-it-do-to-womens-health/


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## Watcher (Dec 18, 2016)

Most trannies don't age well. They typically start looking like men in drag


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## John Furrman (Dec 18, 2016)

Watcher said:


> Most trannies don't age well. They typically start looking like men in drag
> 
> View attachment 163992


That looks like tranny GabeN.


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## Ntwadumela (Dec 18, 2016)

Watcher said:


> Most trannies don't age well. They typically start looking like men in drag
> 
> View attachment 163992


Most of them are men in drag, though.


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## Watcher (Dec 18, 2016)

Ntwadumela said:


> Most of them are men in drag, though.


That's trannies in a nutshell


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## drain (Dec 18, 2016)

PortsideDave said:


> allowed only under certain circumstances



Yes. I think that, if the person really, really, _really _suffer from strong gender dysphoria, they should undergo extensive psychological tests and therapy. If the dysphoria is totally legit, then the surgery is allowed.
Despite our dear troons spitting totally made out numbers, saying that almost all people are trans, the true trans people (not the transtrenders we have today) represents a very small percentage.
True transexuals are suffering because their dysphoria, and the ones that whine on social media, are violent, or show up on other people's houses to try to kill them are all troons/transtrenders that shouldn't be allowed to undergo surgery.


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## Ninja_Warrior (Dec 18, 2016)

I think transitioning is a good idea, the best way to transition is with a shotgun under your throat, just pull the magic trigger and your transition is complete!


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## Watcher (Dec 18, 2016)

DrainRedRain said:


> Yes. I think that, if the person really, really, _really _suffer from strong gender dysphoria, they should undergo extensive psychological tests and therapy. If the dysphoria is totally legit, then the surgery is allowed.
> Despite our dear troons spitting totally made out numbers, saying that almost all people are trans, the true trans people (not the transtrenders we have today) represents a very small percentage.
> True transexuals are suffering because their dysphoria, and the ones that whine on social media, are violent, or show up on other people's houses to try to kill them are all troons/transtrenders that shouldn't be allowed to undergo surgery.


The problem with this is it encourages trannies to do more crazy things to be seen as having "strong gender dysphoria". Like self mutilation. 

the fact of the matter is that it becomes a no true scottsman's fallacy to claim that there are "true" trannies. Because when you get right down to it dysphoria is just an intense insecurity about your physical appearance. And decades ago we taught children to accept your appearance and not to correct it with surgery

Honestly if we're encouraging trannies to correct their appearances with surgery we should also start mandating that all teenage girls should get breast augmentation surgery just because they feel insecure about it.


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## drain (Dec 18, 2016)

Watcher said:


> The problem with this is it encourages trannies to do more crazy things to be seen as having "strong gender dysphoria". Like self mutilation.
> 
> the fact of the matter is that it becomes a no true scottsman's fallacy to claim that there are "true" trannies. Because when you get right down to it dysphoria is just an intense insecurity about your physical appearance. And decades ago we taught children to accept your appearance and not to correct it with surgery
> 
> Honestly if we're encouraging trannies to correct their appearances with surgery we should also start mandating that all teenage girls should get breast augmentation surgery just because they feel insecure about it.



So the best thing to do is forbidding people to do these types of surgery? I'm honest curious


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## Watcher (Dec 18, 2016)

DrainRedRain said:


> So the best thing to do is forbidding people to do these types of surgery? I'm honest curious


no it shouldn't be illegal

but if you're going to get into the subject of giving government grants to people in order to get gender reassignment surgery then it's a different story entirely.


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## DatBepisTho (Dec 18, 2016)

Eh. If they're disphoric enough it causes some hardcore distress, but I'm not sure I agree with the lengths they go to _try_ to become the opposite sex. Those are wounds that aren't allowed to heal, after all, and the hormones seem to do some serious harm in the incorrect doses.

-Then again I'm sort of a fan of the old-school crossdressers who lived as the opposite sex and weren't found out until they died. That was some seriously good acting skills and poise transtrenders should fucking learn if they want to play at being trans.


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## drain (Dec 18, 2016)

Watcher said:


> but if you're going to get into the subject of giving government grants to people in order to get gender reassignment surgery then it's a different story entirely.



What's your thoughts on the matter? I want to hear different opinions about this subject, since I'm interested in what other users think about it


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## Watcher (Dec 18, 2016)

DrainRedRain said:


> What's your thoughts on the matter? I want to hear different opinions about this subject, since I'm interested in what other users think about it



Gender reassignment surgery already requires some psychological counsel in order to even get referred to a doctor who can do it. And that's if you're floating your own bill.

I don't think that the tax payer should float the bill on what is ultimately a cosmetic surgery.



DatBepisTho said:


> Eh. If they're disphoric enough it causes some hardcore distress, but I'm not sure I agree with the lengths they go to _try_ to become the opposite sex. Those are wounds that aren't allowed to heal, after all, and the hormones seem to do some serious harm in the incorrect doses.
> 
> -Then again I'm sort of a fan of the old-school crossdressers who lived as the opposite sex and weren't found out until they died. That was some seriously good acting skills and poise transtrenders should fucking learn if they want to play at being trans.


The problem I have with "hard distress" is that people can fake distress. Like people can just attempt to self mutilate and claim that's distress.

In terms of "play at being trans". Milo pointed out that transgenderism has been a meritocracy until relatively recently due to the concept of passing. It's only more recently people have started attempting to mandate into law things like anti discrimination against trans people who don't already pass. Since in the past if a trans person already looked like a chick and had a vag very few people would even notice.

It's entirely people who look like men in drag wanting to piss sitting down next to women that people were annoyed by.


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## Positron (Dec 18, 2016)

Destroying your healthy genitals will not cure your diseased brain.


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## Watcher (Dec 18, 2016)

Positron said:


> Destroying your healthy genitals will not cure your diseased brain.


This ties into something else

A lot of trannies blame the problems in their lives on one thing. IE: Their Dysphoria. When in reality it's usually the dysphoria is manifesting from much deeper psychological problems. Like that they're overly sensitive, care about what people think too much or are very insecure about themselves. You can also see this with how many trannies even after getting the surgery still have the exact same psychological issues and many regret doing the procedure or attempt suicide. 

You can also see it with how a very large amount of trannies are jobless and often want some system in-place so they are given gender reassignment surgery. Rather than work for it.

I've talked to a lot of trannies that describe their problems almost like they're insurmountable. I spoke to one who lived with his parents and I asked him why he didn't have a job. Well it was because he lived out in the country. I asked him why he didn't move. Well he said because he didn't know anyone else. So I asked him why he didn't get onto a government program to help him find a job and move out (since those existed in the state he lived in), and he said he would need to be driven to a government office to apply for such a thing. In this instance he was looking for ways to avoid having to do the work and actually accomplish his goals. And it's depressing that all of their problems mostly amount from a lack of ambition and a general coddling during childhood and that having an actual work ethic would fix it.


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## cappaint (Dec 19, 2016)

Watcher said:


> This ties into something else
> 
> A lot of trannies blame the problems in their lives on one thing. IE: Their Dysphoria. When in reality it's usually the dysphoria is manifesting from much deeper psychological problems. Like that they're overly sensitive, care about what people think too much or are very insecure about themselves. You can also see this with how many trannies even after getting the surgery still have the exact same psychological issues and many regret doing the procedure or attempt suicide.
> 
> ...


You have to be on an exceptional level of laziness to prefer to wallow in your own misery, mutilate your body and pump yourself full of drugs instead of going to therapy and working to deal with those problems. It shows a bizarre lack of long-term thinking.


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## Todesfurcht (Dec 19, 2016)

PortsideDave said:


> allowed only under certain circumstances



I can not stress this enough.
If I'm not mistaken, the laws used to be tougher than now. If I recall when I looked into it, the individual had to get a certain amount of therapy before being allowed to use the hormones, and then even more therapy would occur before the discussion of reassignment surgery would come up.
I'm not understanding how all these men in their 40's and children under the age of 13 are getting prescribed these hormones and surgeries so quickly. It is a life changing decision and no one under 16 should be making the decision, and no one over 30 with a family should be given the option either.

Real gender dysphoria is awful and it's not something I'd wish on anyone.
All of these lib-tards turning it into the first answer for any instance of "gender dysphoria" is trivializing any real cases. (Also making it harder to pin-point and properly diagnose)
In about 10-15 years, all of the children currently getting reassignment surgery/hormones will regret it and pull the trans-community further back than it's ever been.

It's negatively affecting everyone involved.


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## idosometimes (Dec 19, 2016)

I couldn't care less really.  It isn't my body.  Do whatever you want to yourself.  If you are a cute tranny, do it on chaturbate so I can watch.

The problem with trannies is how they see themselves as the victimest of victims.  Everything ever is some assault against them and their stupid special identity.  In watching people discuss the pronoun bullshit, these mental defectives always say how "misgendering" someone is so horrible and how normals wouldn't like it.  No, normals wouldn't give a fudgesicle about a mistake.  Their identify is not fully invested in one stupid meaningless category.   Transphobia becomes the answer for every problem.   Transitioning doesn't change anything because they end up as ugly balding guys in wigs who no one wants to sex.


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## Tragi-Chan (Dec 20, 2016)

I think there's a chicken-and-egg situation. Literally every transperson I've encountered online or IRL had a raft of other issues. Is that because they've been fucked up by their gender issues or are the gender issues just another symptom of a larger problem? If it's the latter, then transitioning's not going to help. In fact, it'll likely create more issues in the long run.

I think the rush to transition is going to be the early 21st century equivalent of castrating gay men, sterilising hysterical women or giving lobotomies to kids with ADHD. Seemed like a good idea at the time, very regrettable in the long run. I think really a solution needs to be sought where people who consider themselves trans come to terms with the bodies they have rather than aiming to turn their body into a crude facsimile of what they want to be.


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## Positron (Dec 21, 2016)

Tragi-Chan said:


> I think the rush to transition is going to be the early 21st century equivalent of castrating gay men, sterilising hysterical women or giving lobotomies to kids with ADHD. Seemed like a good idea at the time, very regrettable in the long run. I think really a solution needs to be sought where people who consider themselves trans come to terms with the bodies they have rather than aiming to turn their body into a crude facsimile of what they want to be.



I think it is even worse than these.  Doctors perform psychosurgeries like frontal lobotomy on, say, depressives and schizophrenics because they did not know better back then, and they didn't have so many types of medication and treatment options as we do now.  The situation with the horribly misnamed "gender reassignment surgery" is different:  the medical circle  condone it, knowing full well it is a false promise because we cannot change a person's sex and gender through surgery (we also know full well that gender cannot be 'assigned', much less 'reassigned').  We ignore the glaringly obvious fact that what is called "gender dysphoria" is a form of psychosis and should be treated as such, because political correctness trumps medical ethics and common sense.  The whole tranny industry has to be one of the biggest black marks of 20th and 21st century medicine.


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## purrings (Dec 22, 2016)

If I'm being serious: for adults, _sure _they're adults they can make whatever choices they want. I'm not going advocate for the outlawing of certain surgeries. 

Now does surgical transition actually improve a dysphoric persons quality of life? That's a more jumbled answer. They will self report that it greatly reduces dysphoria, but we also know their life expectancy just dropped by few years and their likelihood of attempting suicide just increased.


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## Pigeon On A Stick (Dec 22, 2016)

If George Washington was told his citizens' descendants would want to cut apart their genitalia and brag about it to crowds of people they aren't familiar with, he would be disgusted, to put it that way.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Dec 23, 2016)

Who the fuck is Milo Stewart?


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## CaptainKidd (Dec 24, 2016)

If you have an actual diagonises of body-dysmorphia then you shouldn't go through transitioning. If you dont, then hell, it's no different than any other drastic plastic surgery.

( cont. ) I wouldn't recommend someone who suffers from bulimia from having liposuction


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## ICametoLurk (Dec 24, 2016)

CaptainKidd said:


> ( cont. ) I wouldn't recommend someone who suffers from bulimia from having liposuction


Tell us more about your liposuction surgery, fatty.


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## CaptainKidd (Dec 24, 2016)

Never had one. But people who suffer from eating disorders such as bulimia or anorexia see themselves as fat no matter how skinny they may be. The point I was getting at was that surgery isn't a good treatment for mental illness.


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## sourrascal (Dec 28, 2016)

I think transitioning can help people. Unfortunately suggesting less invasive treatments for dysphoria is taboo these days.

I don't really understand how surgery can help people. It doesn't seem like the results are very good to me. 

I'm concerned about how transitioning is bandied about these days. 20-30 years ago, maybe 1/1000 or 1/500 people transitioned. With people in their 20s it's now 1/200 or even 1/150. These just make me question who really "needs" to transition. 

As long as transitioning makes people actually feel better when other methods don't, then I think it can be ok. However, I don't really like the idea that people need to transition because they are "actually" a man or woman on the "inside". 

Someone bought up on this forum how dysphoria could be seen as a culture bound syndrome:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome


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## Vitriol (Jan 7, 2017)

ICametoLurk said:


> Tell us more about your liposuction surgery, fatty.


Keep it civil


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## Cheap Sandals (Jan 9, 2017)

I'm unconvinced.

I used to believe the line about True and Honest Trans Women being True and Honest women. Now I think they're autogynophiles and I'm unsure if the entirety of society should be changed to accommodate the actual Born in the Wrong Body, True Transgender people who constitute the extreme minority. I honestly doubt they exist at this point.

At some point you just think, "It's not normal." Gay people are normal. They just want to fuck. Everyone can understand that. But altering yourself with hormones (takes decades off your life) and taking an axe to oneself? ... Well, I don't buy the concept that self-alteration leads to long lasting happiness or a satisfied mind. The infamous Swedish Study shows that surgery is only somewhat effective, and then only in specific cases.

There's no way to surgically stop "I hate myself and I'm dissatisfied with society". There never will be.


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## Honeybunny (Jan 9, 2017)

It's their personal decision but anyone who goes through with it without researching the topic at length beforehand is their own worst enemy


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## AnOminous (Jan 9, 2017)

Honeybunny said:


> It's their personal decision but anyone who goes through with it without researching the topic at length beforehand is their own worst enemy



Anyone who gets shit like this done against medical advice, or after deliberately seeking out some transtrender-pandering quack, pretty much gets what they deserve.


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## Anime Dad (Jan 10, 2017)

I should start collecting caps and receipts on the topic of transitioning and the societal shock / dysphoria I've begun to notice occurring more frequently as of late, especially with FTM transmen. Right now it's all observational blathering on my part from some personal conversations both IRL an via social media, but many of these Quick Fixers who have actually made the leap to HRT via informed consent clinics (aka you sign a paper and they give you testosterone in 3 visits or less) are now going through rather major identity crisis over being seen as and treated like *cis men* in their everyday lives by society. It's astounding how unprepared these people were to *actually be treated as men *and all that entails.

When their voices deepen, their body fat redistributes, and they grow facial hair? Guess what---now they are being gendered as male by randos on the street.....and it's bothering them. Some of them even out / invalidate themselves in order to combat the Evil Cismale Stigma that is now ascribed to them; making Absolutely Certain to skirt the 'NOT ALL MEN!" argument by insisting "BUT I'M TRANS SO NOT ME!"

Obviously doesn't apply to everyone; but absolutely happening way way more these days in the 'Trender side of trans.

Therapy and mental health care / support is an important part of transitioning; and more and more it seems it's seen as Evil Gatekeeping that should be bypassed on a whim because fuck the cis scum dictating my gender! Honestly, these people petitioning this deserve all the harm that comes to them, but I hate that they actually make headway at times and open up short cuts to impressionable dang teens on the tumblr.


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## Mars Attacks! (Jan 11, 2017)

I'm conflicted about it honestly.  If we're talking about adults, it seems unethical to dictate what someone can/can't do with their body and their life.  But it seems like gender confusion often ties into other mental issues and it can be difficult to tell if transitioning will actually help until you're already doing it, which by that point it's kind of too late to go back.  I don't think children or teenagers should transition because their brains are still developing and younger people tend to have a more simplified view of gender, i.e. "I must actually be a man inside because I don't like to wear dresses and I want to be strong and tough."  I'm a little concerned for the future of these people, especially now that you can get hormones without going through any therapy if you go to an informed consent clinic.

I know several people who have detransitioned and they weren't trenders adopting a new radikewl identity for fun.  Most of them actually fit the diagnostic criteria of gender dysphoria perfectly, but they realized after months or years in transition that it wasn't helping them.  There's really no reliable way to tell if someone will be satisfied with transition or not.


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## Zorin (ASK ME ABOUT CHILD RAPE) (Jan 13, 2017)

I think it's about as good an idea as a black person bleaching their skin like Michael Jackson because they 'feel like a white person' since they like baseball more than basketball and don't listen to rap music.

And that's just being generous, personally I think it's right up there with Nazi human experimentation and should be completely banned, and that parents 'raising' children to be transgender should be in prison for felony child abuse and never allowed contact with children again.


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