# Representation in the media



## RockVolnutt (Dec 9, 2017)

Is there any reasonable thoughts behind the idea of media being changed to be more "inclusive"? Have people lost sight of what they were asking for?


I ask because I've seen it escalated to the point of seeing people use arguments of "Batman needs to a black woman or my non-existent daughter will never develop self-esteem and will likely lose all ambitious and become a stripper".  It's surreal to see people claim that someone's self-worth should come from cartoon characters sharing superficial traits with them. I would hope I'm strawmanning here.


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## RG 448 (Dec 9, 2017)

RockVolnutt said:


> I would hope I'm strawmanning here.


You’re not.  Representation means we all have to take for granted that humans with different skin colors or sexual orientations can never relate to each other on any level.


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## Diesel Boogaloo (Dec 9, 2017)

RockVolnutt said:


> I ask because I've seen it escalated to the point of seeing people use arguments of "Batman needs to a black woman or my non-existent daughter will never develop self-esteem and will likely lose all ambitious and become a stripper".


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## Dooly Tilly (Dec 9, 2017)

God, Jesus and Satan don't exist... eom.


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## MarvinTheParanoidAndroid (Dec 9, 2017)

That moment when you've realized that representation is just a rebranding of tokenism.


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## From The Uncanny Valley (Dec 9, 2017)

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:


> That moment when you've realized that representation is just a rebranding of tokenism.



But much less funny.


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## Bassomatic (Dec 10, 2017)

I find it to be a clear act of laziness as well as takes away from true and honest minorities who were or are cool in fiction. Let's take Star Trek's Uhurha, she was cool as fuck and happened to be a black woman. Compared to black spiderman, who's just people reeeeing instead of making their own superhero or asking to have one made (black pather is interesting and a fun personification of MAD at times, he was mixed up in some legit cold war shit) they just cry about it and demand it changed, then people don't like it because it's lazy and boring and then cry racism.

So really it's just a way to be lazy and bad at what you do and protect your own failing while ruining things for other people.

Also for these people who demand this stuff, you know it never pops up in books? Speakers at a Philosophy group? It's basic bitch entertainment. For example, that movie that was just out the dark tower, based on a series. A few times in the series they pretty clearly make the hero known to be white. They put a black man in the movie (who happened to do quite well and an actor I like but movie was pretty bad) but you don't see these people saying anything about the book? Why. Niggers are lazy and don't read. Honestly, that's why this happens to comics, video games and  pop culture shit.

When a Cherokee complains their just aren't enough of them show in the fencing population or lesbian rubgy teams... then maybe I'll give a fuck.


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## Fox (Dec 10, 2017)

I think it's really good to represent experiences rather than different skin colours and orientations. I hate the "White middle class kid with divorced parents" protagonist because it's overused and lazy. I want to see the world from someone else's perspective or see someone with similar circumstances to me going on an adventure.
Sadly, people's idea of "inclusivity" and "representation" is very shallow and adds nothing to the experience, it's like going through a checklist...
"This happens to me because I'm black." Check.
"I am bi I love both sexes I go on bi dates in bi relationships." Check.
"I am Muslim I pray some hate me because I pray." Check.
"I have anxiety I do this because anxiety hey look medication and appointment I do treatment." Check.
It distracts from the story and adds nothing of value to the character.
I just finished playing Hellblade recently and I think it's a good example of representation, it tells a good story and gives you something to think about even after you finish the game, helps you see the world the way a minority sees it.
I don't know, I'm rambling. I hope you got my point though. We need more representation of experiences rather than shallow portrayals of minority groups summed up in a sentence or two.


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## Assorted Nuts (Dec 10, 2017)

I think it is both shallow and narcissistic for someone to insist they "need" characters who are just like them in the most superficial ways possible.


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## El Porko Fako (Dec 10, 2017)

For some people, I really think it's a self insertion thing. People want to  more easily self insert themselves into stories as characters they enjoy, and they want to resonate more with a character than they already do. Probably the best example I can present that can support my opinion is Brianna Wu's dumb article about Samus Aran being trans. Wu always tries (and miserably fails) to present herself as this techie, science fiction nerd tough gal persona. Samus Aran is one of the most iconic female leads in video game history (and in a science fiction type title no less), so what better way for Wu to show the world and the readers of this article that she is just like Samus by writing an article about Samus being a trans woman. If someone wants to play pretend and imagine they're Batman, fine I guess, but demanding drastic changes to established characters and fiction  just because they want the character to be more like them is incredibly autistic and childish.

I personally don't care if a writer wants the protagonist of their story is a fat femme, handicapped woman of color. All I ask is to give the character some actual depth and make them engaging. The problem with most of these people who want more diverse representation in fiction is that they believe that sexuality, gender, and race are what solely make a good character, and they don't care beyond the surface of these basic traits.


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## Rand /pol/ (Dec 10, 2017)

It also sucks because it can turn good ideas into just another excuse for tokenism, an example of this would be how Marvel had a new version of the Hulk "Amadeus Cho" which had a good idea behind it but it's kind of hard to look at it anything but just another case of "turning a White character into a non white."


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## Fandom Trash (Dec 10, 2017)

Its the same shit that you see in Tumblr.  People who feel the need to add all these random mental illness and sexuality onto their ocs.

Like they tell everyone , "hey im writing a kickass story of a demisexual trans girl who also happens to have bpd, etc!!"

And you just like, why is this important? Sure its nice to have representation, but if all the characters act the same way then there really is no need to attach all these superficial traits onto them. I just dont get it.

Just write characters how you want to write them, and not because a group of sjws tell you otherwise.


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## Positron (Dec 10, 2017)

People will watch whatever shit served on their plate, find reason to complain, and come back for more.  It has been this way since movies and TV were invented.

In other words, the supposed lack of diversity would not hurt business, thus nothing needs to change.


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## Onions (Dec 10, 2017)

I've actually seen little girls start to study for STEM fields partly because they wanted to be like their favorite characters on children's shows. Children are still forming their identities, and ideas of "who is  intelligent?" "who is beautiful?" "what do people who look like me do in life?" I don't mind seeing "tokenism" if it helps children see themselves doing productive work or feel good about their appearance.

Adults forcing pandering crap into nerd media is a different issue really.


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## Kyria the Great (Dec 10, 2017)

I believe part of this "diversity" thing stems from that these people are looking for a hero or an idea that they can work towards themselves without realizing that all they need to do is look inside themselves for strength and get better. 

Though the reason why "diversity" fails in my book is because the diversity is generally character instead of a character who happens to be black, gay, asian, etc... You can have kickass characters that aren't white, but you have to actually make them folks that aren't shallow.


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## AnOminous (Dec 10, 2017)

Ron /pol/ said:


> It also sucks because it can turn good ideas into just another excuse for tokenism, an example of this would be how Marvel had a new version of the Hulk "Amadeus Cho" which had a good idea behind it but it's kind of hard to look at it anything but just another case of "turning a White character into a non white."
> View attachment 331201



I don't see what's wrong with this, other than the possible argument that making the weak, pretty beta Bruce Banner an Asian male is actually perpetuating Asian stereotypes.  From the very beginning, the Hulk has been about the dichotomy between the meek, unassuming scientist and the physical manifestation of the rage he carries within him.

Imagine if, instead, a hulking crackhead gets hit by radioactivity, and when he gets angry, turns into a guy who pays child support.


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## Overcast (Dec 10, 2017)

The irony in the whole "Let's turn an established character into a *insert non-white/non-male here*"  thing is that by doing that, you're making the implication that people who aren't white men are inherently inferior and need to copy said white men in order to have any value as people. Which sorta defeats the purpose of diversity and inclusiveness.


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## SPARKLETWAT (Dec 10, 2017)

There's this show called The Good Doctor where the protag happens to be autistic. The cast is diverse, there's someone who is Hispanic, quite a few black people and some whities mixed in.

Shaun Murphy is a complex autistic character with his own internal motivations, a past and an actual personality that breaks a lot of autism stereotypes. The autistic community should be thrilled to see an autistic protag whose POV is shown on the show, right?

NOPE.

They're bitching that Shaun Murphy is a white man and Freddie Highmore is not autistic IRL. I thought he was and googled him, safe to say I was surprised. I thought "acting" meant a person pretends on camera and a good actor makes the audience believe what they see onscreen is a real person in a real situation feeling real feelings.

You can't fucking please the SJWs who scream about diversity. They move the goalposts every time. Then they get mad at you if you suggest they go take acting classes and be the representative they want to see so bad in media. There is your proof of their laziness and expecting it handed to them on a silver platter without them having to do any real work. Slactivism at its finest.


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## Crunchy Leaf (Dec 10, 2017)

scorptatious said:


> The irony in the whole "Let's turn an established character into a *insert non-white/non-male here*"  thing is that by doing that, you're making the implication that people who aren't white men are inherently inferior and need to copy said white men in order to have any value as people. Which sorta defeats the purpose of diversity and inclusiveness.


People love doing this with Disney princesses too, which is also aggravating. There are legitimate and interesting non-European fairy tales that could be adapted; don't just be lazy and make Sleeping Beauty black. 

I also dislike when they feel the need to shove every single possible type of person in when that's rarely how it actually works. Educational stuff for kids is often very heavy handed with this, you have the black kid, the Asian kid, the ginger kid, the obligatory wheelchair bound kid, but I could see how it's useful in education. But say in _Glee_, real high schools aren't like that, and it feels fake.


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## flock of doves (Dec 14, 2017)

for the most part, stupid. i don't want ~inclusivity~ and forced diversity in shows, i want cool ass characters who just happen to be non-white/non-male/non-(include majority here).


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## Rio (Dec 14, 2017)

I agree that diversity doesn't need to be sh0ehorned in exclusively for the sake of adding diversity of a cast, but a problem is that people are very quick to dismiss any character that isn't straight for instance as pandering or whatever. If you make it a central point of a character, people say it's pandering. If it's a non-vital aside to a side character, people say it's pandering. Even when it's an NPC with like 3 lines shoved in a corner of some game somewhere people will decry it as being pandering.

My point is that I agree that forced diversity tends to be pretty dumb, but people need to stop decrying every single non-straight character as being SJW pandering or tokenism. That's just as annoying.


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## Lensherr (Dec 14, 2017)

What's interesting to me is how unique cries for diversity are to white countries. Take movies for example: Bollywood films and Japanese cinema largely consist of Indian and Japanese people, the ethnic majorities of those industries respective countries. Yet I've never heard calls to make those countries' films more diverse like I have with Hollywood films, which are a product of a largely white society. 

My theory is that this ties into the larger issue of white guilt that is found in western nations: it allows demands for more diversity to dominate the conversation and shames anyone who thinks differently into silence. The people who push it believe that it will have some sort of trickle-down effect on society: since pretty much everyone consumes some form of media, if more [insert marginalized group here] are represented in it, it will improve the standing of [insert marginalized group here] by giving them more exposure to many different kinds of people that allows society as a whole to gain a more positive outlook on them that makes up for whatever past injustices were inflicted upon them, thus sating the white guilt of the people pushing for it in the first place. Of course, it's an asinine and ridiculous idea, but I don't expect logic from SJWs.


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## Audit (Dec 15, 2017)

Tbh, I wish the media would either give up on writing mentally ill characters or hand over the reins to someone that has even the faintest understanding of them. I found Monk to be an insulting caricature of OCD and the never ending insistence of portraying effective serial killers as being insane doesn't really help anything. Insane serial killers are stopped by sofas; they don't go on multi-state killing sprees and parody the seven deadly sins.


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## Deadwaste (Dec 15, 2017)

Audit_The_Autist said:


> Tbh, I wish the media would either give up on writing mentally ill characters or hand over the reins to someone that has even the faintest understanding of them. I found Monk to be an insulting caricature of OCD and the never ending insistence of portraying effective serial killers as being insane doesn't really help anything. Insane serial killers are stopped by sofas; they don't go on multi-state killing sprees and parody the seven deadly sins.


i liked monk tho


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## heymate (Dec 18, 2017)

Dooly Tilly said:


> God, Jesus and Satan don't exist... eom.


Hey!


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## Bassomatic (Dec 18, 2017)

Audit_The_Autist said:


> Tbh, I wish the media would either give up on writing mentally ill characters or hand over the reins to someone that has even the faintest understanding of them. I found Monk to be an insulting caricature of OCD and the never ending insistence of portraying effective serial killers as being insane doesn't really help anything. Insane serial killers are stopped by sofas; they don't go on multi-state killing sprees and parody the seven deadly sins.


I was with Mrs. Bassomatic the other night and nothing to do, so we tried that new show about Dr. Autism, if Monk bothered you, this will be hair tearing.

It's lazy as hell, he's a young adult, out of med school and has the rain man skills of medial info but, the plots? It's fucking Doogie Houser, they aren't wrong saying an autismo behaves like a 11 year old but holy shit I can't not see Neil  Patrick Harris when I watched it. No seriously, it's the exact damn same, really good at their field but social pressures are the struggle and main focus.

Mrs. Bass got sick of me saying, how I wanted to bully him and changed to boxing reruns. So in the end it worked out.


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## A Beached Whale (Dec 19, 2017)

It's a lose lose situation. When media DOES introduce well thought out, diverse characters, Tumblrites REEEEE endlessly that it's not good enough or flat out offensive. Case in point, I saw bitching about Finn and Rose in The Last Jedi being relegated to a comedic side plot, which...it wasn't really at all. And apparently a biracial couple doesn't matter cause, "NOT MAKIN FINN AND POE BOYFRIENDZ IZ HOMOPHOBIAAA!!//!"


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## Alec Benson Leary (Dec 28, 2017)

Onions said:


> I've actually seen little girls start to study for STEM fields partly because they wanted to be like their favorite characters on children's shows. Children are still forming their identities, and ideas of "who is  intelligent?" "who is beautiful?" "what do people who look like me do in life?" I don't mind seeing "tokenism" if it helps children see themselves doing productive work or feel good about their appearance.
> 
> Adults forcing pandering crap into nerd media is a different issue really.


This kind of tokenism is absolutely valuable in media aimed at toddlers because they cannot understand more complex nuances and as you say, their minds are still being shaped by black-and-white messages. We all already know why SJWs want toddler-level messaging aimed at (supposedly) grown adults. 



SPARKLETWAT said:


> You can't fucking please the SJWs who scream about diversity. They move the goalposts every time. Then they get mad at you if you suggest they go take acting classes and be the representative they want to see so bad in media. There is your proof of their laziness and expecting it handed to them on a silver platter without them having to do any real work. Slactivism at its finest.


Never, ever try to give SJWs what they say they want because it is invariably a lie and they will punish you twice as hard for making them do any amount of effort required to cover it up after your olive branch accidentally shines light on it.


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## Feline Darkmage (Jan 5, 2018)

Audit_The_Autist said:


> Insane serial killers are stopped by sofas; they don't go on multi-state killing sprees and parody the seven deadly sins



Insanity isn't necessarily the same as being retarded, Retarded serial killers get stopped by sofas.


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## HG 400 (Jan 5, 2018)

Audit_The_Autist said:


> Tbh, I wish the media would either give up on writing mentally ill characters.



I wish society would give up on tolerating them.


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## Pickle Inspector (Jan 5, 2018)

SPARKLETWAT said:


> You can't fucking please the SJWs who scream about diversity. They move the goalposts every time. Then they get mad at you if you suggest they go take acting classes and be the representative they want to see so bad in media. There is your proof of their laziness and expecting it handed to them on a silver platter without them having to do any real work. Slactivism at its finest.


Marvel comics is a good example of what happens when you let SJW's do what they want, first then they need to have minority characters who are very 'woke' and are generally really boring and don't have much personality other than 'I'm Gay', 'I'm a strong black woman' or 'I'm Trans' (Often replacing the poplular white male versions with 'diverse' alternatives) then they need minorities to WRITE minorty characters (Christopher Priest who was one of the first popular black comic writers actually stopped writing because he was sick of getting asked to only write black characters after writing successful for Spiderman and Batman comics in the 80s and 90s) and with people getting hired on tokenism instead of talent (Who for some reason constantly insult and block the customers on social media and generally treat their job as a hobby) coupled with SJW's not actually buying comics that are tailor made for them the sales drop so they call the customers bigots before moving on to call comic stores bigots because they're upset they are going out of business with low sales and finally they call Marvel bigots for daring to cancel series by minority comic writers because they are losing money and have sales figures for some series in the low thousands.


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## weirdMcGee (Jan 6, 2018)

Like everyone else, representation should allow for more characters with depth then just the black kid or the gay gal. I have this talk with myself a lot especially when it came as being a writer.

Personally, I just think of a character idea then think of the trivial ideas afterwards. A person's race is rarely the main highlight of the character as well as their gender and sexuality. If that's all furnace then they're boring at best to outright offensive at worst.

As an example, I have character named john, he's the town's delivery boy who does delivery as means to support his family (who's just his dad). He's more interested in insects than he is people and tends to be extremely anti-social. One of the main conflicts he deal with his stepping out of his role of being an introvert and more willing to work with people, especially now that he's the assigned team leader of a group of elemental guardians (Basically power rangers).

Notice how I barely mentioned his race because it doesn't matter. Now, sometimes there's nothing wrong with bringing up a person's culture and differences but if the story doesn't call for it, don't do it.


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## RockVolnutt (Jan 31, 2018)

Reposting from the MovieBob thread. I don't understand why people have this much of a hard on for this stuff.


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## Old Wizard (Jan 31, 2018)

Forced diversity feels forced, _especially_ if you are part of the demographic represented.  It's not flattering.  I don't appreciate it.  The only things more annoying than characters that exist solely for diversity are probably the smug authors patting themselves on the back.  It's bad writing and it shows.

See also: Tumblr diversifying characters by making them similar to racist WWII propaganda


Spoiler: Like so


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## AnOminous (Jan 31, 2018)

So because they're Americans, they have to turn Japanese people into fat, disgusting pigs even though that's an American thing.


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## RockVolnutt (Jan 31, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> So because they're Americans, they have to turn Japanese people into fat, disgusting pigs even though that's an American thing.


Usually they argue that because Japanese artists like big eyes that it's "easy to see them as white". So their idea is to "make them more Japanese" or raceswap.


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## Salt Water Taffy (Jan 31, 2018)

A little :powerlevel: but I'm Italian-American. Most people (especially SJW's) say that counts as white but that's actually incredibly recent a phenomenon. Fifty years ago I wouldn't have been considered "white", I'd have been considered "Italian". 

I'm pretty sure that even today there's no Italian-American characters in any media that isn't either a classic pasta-slinging thick-accented fresh-off-the-boat-from-Italy ethnic stereotype a la Mario, or a member of the mafia, you know, a_ criminal_. 

And I turned out all right.


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## Henry Bemis (Jan 31, 2018)

There are certainly strong reasons for representation. As for what we tend to pick apart...

It's almost like how the Internet has become both the greatest blessing and the most wicked curse. We have never lived in a time that has had as much information at our disposal, nor when the means of media production have been so affordable, and with such immediate results. However, that hasn't necessarily led to greater understanding and self-representative art; it's created a sense of daunting overload.


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## George Oscar Bluth Jr (Jan 31, 2018)

RockVolnutt said:


> Reposting from the MovieBob thread. I don't understand why people have this much of a hard on for this stuff.



I can't wait until Disney is dismantled and equally distributed to the masses. I hope I get a piece of Splash Mountain and the copyright to that rooster from The Three Caballeros.


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## BountifulFeast (Feb 1, 2018)

I hate how "diverse" characters are often so flat and boring. I like diversity in stories because it allows me to see how different kinds of people are affected by the plot. It can be turn a mundane situation into a very interesting one.

People are so scared of the stereotype boogeyman that minority characters aren't allowed to have character anymore. If I'm reading a story about a gay guy, I'm expecting that to at least partially affect his character interactions. I don't want him to be just another character except rainbow. And I'm sick and tired of mentally ill characters being either perfect little angels or theatrical mass murderers. If you want an interesting and memorable autistic character, I'd say take inspiration from one of the dozens of clowns featured on this site. I'd read that.


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## 8777BB5 (Feb 1, 2018)

My issue with the diversity police is that they want to have it both ways. They want diversity, yet they don't want the diverse people to be portrayed in a negative light. When I was a kid one of the book series that I was forced to read were the open court books. The Open Court Books tried to have it both ways: They wanted to be diverse but at the same time they wanted to be PC. So you get black kids who wear suits and ties to school and don't do anything fun because having fun is racist, all the Asian characters are Pajama wearing Chinese people who believe in fairy tales,  all the white people are stereotypical 1950s racists who live in ghettos, and all the Hispanic characters enjoying living in third world shitholes and practicing fairy tale medicine.


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## Ponderous Pillock (Feb 1, 2018)

The one thing which has always opened my eyes was Idris Elba's own discussion on casting versus the hackneyed attempts of diversity we see in most media.

The simple fact is that the problems in casting is that writers are hilariously bad and racist, even the "woke" ones. The same with those who make the casting decisions. Far _far_ worse than in the general wider world where nobody generally gives a fuck about your skin colour, religion or sexuality unless you're a cunt about one of those facets. Usually it's down to how good you are at your job.

Elba noticed this as whenever he went into a role, he'd be given a character description that would almost invariably include pointing out the skin colour, and they'd almost always been some sort of criminal (his most famous role internationally is as Russel "Stringer" Bell in The Wire) etc.

The main characters and _their_ descriptions, however, would almost be randomly descriptive about certain aspects of the character. "A cheeky smile, and sparkling eyes." with no such mention of skin colour.

Elba, as a classically trained actor asked his agent why he wasn't allowed to go for those roles and was glibly replied to with "It's just the way things are."

This _bizarre_ attitude among the crowd who drape themselves in the thin veneer of being representative, woke, or whatever stupid name progressivism tries to adopt is not only hilariously backwards, but flat out racist. All we're seeing now is a downright hilarious pandering attempt by these hacks to "correct" themselves despite every attempt at putting in said diverse people as flat out shitty tokenism.

This is why Elba would later go on to help star in, and produce the critically acclaimed (and I personally think brilliant) _Luther_. While hailed as the "first black lead BBC drama" it is genuinely well written and the characters could be interchangeable which is what Elba wanted to drive at.


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## Benine Bovine (Feb 1, 2018)

I think that since the world is a very diverse place, having a diverse cast in many stories seem very natural, but i hate how its been made a Thing. It feels a bit othering that in marketing,  plot is being pushed aside for the fact that you have diverse people in your story. Half the world is women, there are hundreds if not thousands of ethic groups, you dont need to pat yourself in the back for aknowledging that there is more to the world than just white straight men. Its literally just reflecting reality to write a variety of characters.

And also i feel like a lot of it is very trend and surface based, like revisioned tokenism. You want a middle eastern character but cant tell the difference between Syria and Tunisia, you want a trans character but you dont even do enough research to not draw them in ace bandage, you want a mentally ill character but you never actually show the grit and struggle of being sick because “it may portray them in a bad light” 

You also need to draw the line between “incorperating their identity into the narrative while also making them an equally fleshed out, non stereotypical character” which can be hard to pull off, but the basis of doing that is just to start with a personality and build on that. I see so many flat characters that seem to have no identity outside or what you can cross out on a paper and its not very good. People with less represented identities should be able to have characters that are shaped by their experience, but far from defined by them, who have all types of human emotions, flaws and motivations. Not just cardboard cutouts like the tokenism that has been going on forever. 

Oh and also for the love of god you can make a minority character morally grey and not have all people that aren’t white or cis be angles, just make sure to avoid stereotypes and common pitfalls, but please its ok to have your character act selfish or lie or have problems, it drives the narrative. And also makes them seem like actual people. 

So basically i welcome and actually appreciate all types of narratives and people in media, but i think it should come from a place of love and genuine interest, rather than quick bucks and a desire to seem progressive 

and that if you aren’t a part of that demographic, you should take your time to study both common experiences and common stereotypical portrayals, but not be paralyzed with fear and revert back to sterilizing their character arch and  making them all perfect people who are always right. Cause thats bad writing.


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## Tlazolli (Feb 1, 2018)

I don’t exactly understand the excessive need for characters of your race, specially if they’re written by sheltered Americans. 

Sure, I see Mexican characters and smile but I don’t feel like this is a requirement. Though I have to admit it would really nice if more Mexican/Latino characters weren’t drug traffickers.

I get the feeling the people demanding representation so adamantly have serious self esteem issues and don’t love themselves.


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## Nuthatch (Feb 1, 2018)

If representation is so important for children to be accepted then why are the most loved TV shows and children's books filled with characters that are animals?  Most children identify with Peppa pig, bunny rabbits, Winnie the Pooh etc.  

But apparently it's too difficult for adults to do.


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## Tlazolli (Feb 1, 2018)

Nuthatch said:


> If representation is so important for children to be accepted then why are the most loved TV shows and children's books filled with characters that are animals?  Most children identify with Peppa pig, bunny rabbits, Winnie the Pooh etc.
> 
> But apparently it's too difficult for adults to do.


:autism: 
They can’t relate unless it’s obviously similar to them physically because they can’t read emotions let alone understand them.


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## Deadwaste (Feb 1, 2018)

8777BB5 said:


> When I was a kid one of the book series that I was forced to read were the open court books. The Open Court Books tried to have it both ways: They wanted to be diverse but at the same time they wanted to be PC. So you get black kids who wear suits and ties to school and don't do anything fun because having fun is racist, all the Asian characters are Pajama wearing Chinese people who believe in fairy tales, all the white people are stereotypical 1950s racists who live in ghettos, and all the Hispanic characters enjoying living in third world shitholes and practicing fairy tale medicine.


and yet it was probably still considered racist in the end


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## Audit (Feb 1, 2018)

Nuthatch said:


> If representation is so important for children to be accepted then why are the most loved TV shows and children's books filled with characters that are animals?  Most children identify with Peppa pig, bunny rabbits, Winnie the Pooh etc.
> 
> But apparently it's too difficult for adults to do.


That's because children aren't looking to cinema and television for self-validation. Most people go to the movies to watch the latest flick and enjoy the film, but the people who constantly whine about representation are going to the movies to experience a particular fantasy. They have to see that mean white man get beaten up by the noble transgender PoC with half a dozen mental illnesses because it's what they want in real life. The problem with this is that they'll never come out and admit that this is what they want in a movie, so they'll write essays on why there should be more Asians, Mexicans, or 1 legged beavers with autism in a feeble attempt to get the film industry to cater to them. The film industry occasionally does follow their demands but only in a watered-down fashion with anything offensive removed, see Star Wars: VIII, but the movies never sell the way they think it should, resulting in the production companies playing it even safer in future films and cutting out anything that may be considered controversial.


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## Ponderous Pillock (Feb 4, 2018)

Tlazolli said:


> I don’t exactly understand the excessive need for characters of your race, specially if they’re written by sheltered Americans.
> 
> Sure, I see Mexican characters and smile but I don’t feel like this is a requirement. Though I have to admit it would really nice if more Mexican/Latino characters weren’t drug traffickers.
> 
> I get the feeling the people demanding representation so adamantly have serious self esteem issues and don’t love themselves.



It's mostly because of the fact the cartels and associated latin gangs are so prevalent on the West Coast and South West where the majority of media output comes from. They've really taken the top spot from the black gangs.

They fade away to near-nothing when it's East Coast productions.

It does fucking say something though that the first "real" Mexican character that's supposed to be a joking stereotype that isn't a drug runner that came to my mind was Ernesto Gonzalez from fricken _Bordertown_. Which was taking the piss out of as many stereotypes as possible. Gonzalez runs a gardening firm and tries to support his large family and is a devout catholic. Legit stereotype territory.

I mean it can't be that hard to have it even vaguely shoehorned in. Have the Mexican character own a local bar where he does the whole "fusion" thing to serve both customer bases well. Murrican flags everywhere for 4th of July, Mexican flags everywhere for Cinco De Mayo etc. Have your "dumb ole whitey" character express surprise when a Mexican holiday "sneaks up" on them when they go to their watering hole, then have him join in with a mangled bit of spanish, Joe Kennedy Style.

===================================

There's always a thousand ways to "do diversity" in a far better, far lighter manner than the screaming tards on twitter who're the self-declared guardians of Diversity often profess and demand _and we often see_. This is one of the few times where diversity in writing becomes an issue. 

It _is _overwhelmingly white, middle class idiots living with other white, middle class idiots all pretending they're not racist when in reality they simply haven't had any experience with ordinary, every day people. 

They're also way too prideful to go out there and go "hey, I need help writing this shit, consult with me" which is something GTA V actually did. They actually hired in ex-gang members and black people from the LA area to get the wording, attitudes and behaviour down right. 

People still complained about how racist the portrayal was, because of course they did.

Casting isn't really an issue, there's plenty of people ready to go in front of a camera and you can soon find more. What you need is writers from different backgrounds.

Just throwing black/mexican/whatever writers at it doesn't work either, it needs actual wider ranging people from a wider background _economically_ and this is the major issue at present and the real need for "diversity". You could hire a thousand minority writers tomorrow and it won't make a fucking lick of difference because they're all likely to be middle class or above and thus the problem continues.

Now, saying that, there seems to be _some_ good new talent coming up that might not have gotten the same prominence without these calls for Diversity. 

Dee Rees is one such noted talent tackling _numerous_ thorny issues and doing it well, having heard her in interviews and seen Mudbound she tackles these issues _very well_ and it shows in her audience ratings over on Rotten Tomatoes (the more "real" measure of a film).

So there's _some_ good news, but it's going to be drowned out for a while still yet by the "woke" crowds.


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## Slap47 (Feb 5, 2018)

Tlazolli said:


> I don’t exactly understand the excessive need for characters of your race, specially if they’re written by sheltered Americans.
> 
> Sure, I see Mexican characters and smile but I don’t feel like this is a requirement. Though I have to admit it would really nice if more Mexican/Latino characters weren’t drug traffickers.
> 
> I get the feeling the people demanding representation so adamantly have serious self esteem issues and don’t love themselves.



I think they're just racists. The basis for alot of this has been the idea that people can't relate to people of different ethnicities and so we need diversity.


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## Rabbit without a hat (Feb 5, 2018)

You know how literature/English classes when it comes to you essay exams you have to write down a bunch of bullshit the author probably never intended?

It's the same with media studies, basically you say the directors/producers meant a bunch of shit they probably didn't because it gets you marks.  So like, this film represents old people as weak because an old guy stumbles for a half second during a chase sequence or something like that.

The people wanting to shoehorn in diversity (as in wanting it for political reasons or for wish fulfillment and no other reason) are like the people who read back their literature exam and thought "yeah, Dickens did mean all this when he said a coat was red,".


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## carltondanks (Feb 5, 2018)

PurpleDude said:


> I think it is both shallow and narcissistic for someone to insist they "need" characters who are just like them in the most superficial ways possible.


i don't know. i think a gay irish man who sticks bombs in every car he sees would be genuinely hilarious to watch


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## Ponderous Pillock (Feb 6, 2018)

carltondanks said:


> i don't know. i think a gay irish man who sticks bombs in every car he sees would be genuinely hilarious to watch



"Oi blow men in all sortsa ways, begorah."


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## Lensherr (Mar 8, 2018)

I’ve been thinking a lot about how SJWs talk a big game about how diversity in entertainment needs to happen, but what I never see is actual data that indicates it would lead to minorities having a better footing in society (which seems to be the end that they have in mind to justify the means). Have there ever been any studies done on this, and if so what were their results?


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## RockVolnutt (Mar 8, 2018)

Lensherr said:


> I’ve been thinking a lot about how SJWs talk a big game about how diversity in entertainment needs to happen, but what I never see is actual data that indicates it would lead to minorities having a better footing in society (which seems to be the end that they have in mind to justify the means). Have there ever been any studies done on this, and if so what were their results?


I don't know, how would you even test that hypothesis? There's so many variables in someone's success in life that I don't see how you can design an experiment that ties it back to "they saw a black guy in a Spider-Man costume when they were 5".


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## XYZpdq (Mar 8, 2018)

As much as I'll poo-poo the concept I admit I totally mark out when there's a westerner in stupid Japanese capeshit shows like Japanese Power Rangers.

I love Evil Americans in non-USA wrestling promotions, too, though.

I think it's more the novelty of it than necessarily "representation" but it does catch my eye.


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## Benine Bovine (Mar 8, 2018)

I think it may be useful in shaping social norms, too a degree. One example would be maybe a religious, kinda sheltered person seeing a gay couple represented as normal everyday folk and then kind of internalizing that gay people are just people too, or a young kid seeing themselves in their hero and being able to mentally pinpoint a specific person, though fictional, to look up to as an idol like kids sometimes do. 

Eh i dont know, sometimes its just nice for someone to be able to look at media and see someone they can relate to in specific ways and who they can look at and think could actually be them, and i can see how constantly seeing movies etc where people who look or act like you just dont exist can feel a bit alienating, but as for long lasting impact i think that would have to do more with kids, given that they are very impressionable and more likely to internalize the messages put on the screen than (most) adults. 

That being said there is a difference between a slow social shift in cinema and an indie developer promising that their kickstarter funded game will totally change the world by portraying ambigiously brown people and someone in an undercut with bright clothes


XYZpdq said:


> As much as I'll poo-poo the concept I admit I totally mark out when there's a westerner in stupid Japanese capeshit shows like Japanese Power Rangers.
> 
> I love Evil Americans in non-USA wrestling promotions, too, though.
> 
> I think it's more the novelty of it than necessarily "representation" but it does catch my eye.


:powerleveln the other coin i fucking love when americans try to represent my country and it becomes a mishmash of broken sentences and stereotypes that are only ever relevant about 200 years ago. Bless. 

I dont care if its not accurate or vaugely offensive its great


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## XYZpdq (Mar 8, 2018)

Benine Bovine said:


> I dont care if its not accurate or vaugely offensive its great



Yeah it's the fun of seeing other people make fun of the stereotypes. 

I think it goes back to basically being able to laugh at yourself and your brethren.


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## 💗Freddie Freaker💗 (Aug 29, 2020)

SJWs keep posting things like this:





But does anyone actually care about seeing people who look like them in media?  Diversity is fun and all, but my favorite characters have always been either girls who look nothing like me or males. Aladdin was a big hit and I'm pretty sure it was consumed mainly by white kids, not arabs. Same with the Lion King, lions were not the primary audience.


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## some Sketchy dude (Aug 29, 2020)

No, I'm white and I don't feel any connection except loathing to all those celebrities, wealthy business executives, and child molesters.


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## Massa's Little Buckie (Aug 29, 2020)

No.


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## [Redacted]-san (Aug 29, 2020)

I'm black and I only want a story/film with good characters, I could care less about the color of their skin, only their personally and actions they make in the story. That's it.


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## Saklas (Aug 29, 2020)

The only thing Hollywood will ever represent to me is humanity in its lowest form. I don’t care about anything else beyond that. I guess if Hollywood teaches us anything it’s that scum bags come in all forms.


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## The Sauce Boss (Aug 29, 2020)

A lot of consoomers care, but especially young people.

As a kid, you look for people 'like you' in everything, and considering that America has been, for most of its history, a majority white nation, a lot of what most kids grew up watching until the past 40-50 years was white people. There was a certain point, and sometimes still is, a point where people, especially kids, can benefit from seeing figures that are 'like them'. I can say with conviction that the few pieces of media I consumed that had positive queer rep when I was growing up made me happy as a clam. 

As I got older, I stopped caring as much. If I see a gay or bi man who isn't a caricature, I kinda point and say 'eyyy, nice,' but that's about it. The almost childlike bent of most young adults nowadays tends to manifest this more, as we're moving slowly to a point where 25 is the new 18 in the public consciousness, where you don't really need to 'have your life together' and 'be an adult' until you're staring down the barrel of middle age. I think that's why we're seeing more screeching about 'representation matters'- because it really, genuinely does, in their heart, whether it's actually good representation or just blatant pandering.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Aug 29, 2020)

Nothing is more important than being constantly marketed toward.

How else am I supposed to know I'm valuable to society!?


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## muh_moobs (Aug 29, 2020)

Lol no.

And why did this loser on Twitter forget the greatest Black Superhero of all time; Blank Man?


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## SmugAutist (Aug 29, 2020)

Of course it matters, it's only that when you hear people think about "representation" or "diversity" it's only in the most basic level imaginable, that being, race or gender.

When you think about a real diversity in your audience you're thinking about more than just those superficial things. You're thinking of a character's background, story, evolution, etc. Same with diversity in business. You target income levels, geographical areas, social upbringing, language, etc. These are things that can be a little complicated and are too much for the average pea-brained Hollywood writer or Twitter user to understand, so they just have diversity be what you can see with your eyes.

I'll admit that I, for example, tend to gravitate to more male oriented things. Sci-fi, fantasy, superhero stuff, thriller, pulps, etc. in terms of my guilty pleasure consooming, yet the protagonist doesn't exactly have to be a 1/4th Hispanic white guy like me, so long as the character touches on the themes I tend to like, then I'm game, be it a pasty whitey or a darky, or a chink. Most of these "diverse" characters that are peddled by the media and Hollywood are not really diverse in their attitudes and actions once you peel away the fact that it's a 300 pound black lesbian. They all talk the same, act the same, and have either the same paper thin progression or don't even bother to have one at all.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Aug 29, 2020)

SmugAutist said:


> When you think about a real diversity in your audience you're thinking about more than just those superficial things. You're thinking of a character's background, story, evolution, etc. Same with diversity in business. You target income levels, geographical areas, social upbringing, language, etc. These are things that can be a little complicated and are too much for the average pea-brained Hollywood writer or Twitter user to understand, so they just have diversity be what you can see with your eyes.


This. This is the diversity that matters.

Everything else is for people to feel important about themselves by proxy. They just want to be able to say "I'm X like this easily recognizable character in popular media that both you and i consume. I'm awesome because of that!" These people are devoid of any kind of characteristic and thus they cry the hardest about representation


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## ⋖ cørdion ⋗ (Aug 29, 2020)

2005 gaming: I must escape my real life in which I am severely crippled!

2020 gaming: No, Jimmy! You must be represented! Embrace being broken for life!


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## Dick Justice (Aug 29, 2020)

Yes but no. Representation is important for shit that actually matters, like socioeconomic class, profession, and hobbies. It's important that hockey fans, physicists, and the rural poor can find stories that resonate with them in the media. But in current year representation is just identity politics and identity politics mean less than nothing.

Rule of thumb: could you replace a character of demographic X with a character from demographic Y without having to rewrite the story? If yes it's identity politics bullshit.


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## JambledUpWords (Aug 29, 2020)

Good story and characters > representation 
If it’s a genuinely good story and the characters are well written, I’m able to empathize more, regardless of race, creed, gender, etc. If it’s just representation for representation’s sake, I’ll pass (unless it’s hilariously bad). Finally, you have to be a huge narcissist if you are only able to empathize with people that look and act the exact way you do.


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## Ghost of Wesley Willis (Aug 29, 2020)

Representation is usually forced 9/10 times and absolutely fucks with the creative process.


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## Casca Enjoyed It (Aug 29, 2020)

Qajinima022 said:


> I'm black and I only want a story/film with good characters, I could care less about the color of their skin, only their personally and actions they make in the story. That's it.


Same here. This forced diversity stuff is very annoying and patronizing to me and it doesn't feel genuine in the slightest.
They need to start focusing on telling a good story with good characters that are also diverse in personalities, motivations, and traits instead of unnecessary identity politics and bland shoehorned "representation." I could care less about how many black people there are in a story.


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## Lunete (Aug 29, 2020)

Everyone wants to see racially diverse heros but nobody wants to see a well written diverse range of bad guys. Where's the love for my villains of color?


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## c-no (Aug 29, 2020)

littlearmalite said:


> As I got older, I stopped caring as much. If I see a gay or bi man who isn't a caricature, I kinda point and say 'eyyy, nice,' but that's about it. The almost childlike bent of most young adults nowadays tends to manifest this more, as we're moving slowly to a point where 25 is the new 18 in the public consciousness, where you don't really need to 'have your life together' and 'be an adult' until you're staring down the barrel of middle age. I think that's why we're seeing more screeching about 'representation matters'- because it really, genuinely does, in their heart, whether it's actually good representation or just blatant pandering.


Same. I'm not really one to care much about representation since I'm just here to consume a product. If there's a character that's gay or black or Canadian or whatever and they aren't a caricature, I can see that as a nice thing at least if they aren't written badly or just shoved in there to try and make shit look like they cared about more than money. That said, I'll admit, I do give a small smile seeing my ethnicity appear in media but that's pretty much akin to "eyyy, nice."



Lunete said:


> Everyone wants to see racially diverse heros but nobody wants to see a well written diverse range of bad guys. Where's the love for my villains of color?


Honestly who wouldn't want to see a villain of color that manages to do shit like an ambitious person that wants world domination or a scientist willing to go beyond most scientist and their ethics for the greater good of humanity and the like. At least from that, we can get pocs to have roles that can cover more than just "protagonist" and "stereotype" and "side character" and the like.


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## Chicken Picnic (Aug 29, 2020)

I couldn't care less. Film and television isn't real life and doesn't need to represent real life. There's tons of black cinema out there in other countries, just like there's Bollywood for the Asians out there. No one should feel compelled to represent any specific culture if they don't want to


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## Adolf Hitler (Aug 29, 2020)

Only in crime statistics.


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## CivilianOfTheFandomWars (Aug 29, 2020)

Does anything matter, really?


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## Kane Lives (Aug 29, 2020)

Hollywood films being 90% white prior to 1990 didn't stop me from enjoying them then, or now.

Almost like some things are universally enjoyable and can transcend culture... 

(And I wanted to see a local production, I'll do it. When I watch American shows I watch it for America, not for some bastardized version of what some ivory tower liberal think diversity should look like.)


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## Legoshi (Aug 29, 2020)

Lunete said:


> Everyone wants to see racially diverse heros but nobody wants to see a well written diverse range of bad guys. Where's the love for my villains of color?


Depends, like when Hollywood wasn't allowed to portray any Chinese character as a villain because they were sucking up to the CCP for money and they cut off scenes of Hong Kong in movies to actors/actresses from Mainland China.


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## DtoDab (Aug 29, 2020)

I don't mind when a show has racial or sexual diversity because of course the world is made of different people, the most fragile minority being the individual and all that.

But it bothers me when the "diverse" cast just acts as complete stereotypes which people somehow applaud as if it was a virtue, looking solely at the most superficial aspects of diversity.

Some people still do suffer actual discrimination, so positive portraits and role models can help normalizing these people as just normal part of  society, that is a positive thing in my opinion.

For ideological reasons I don't think media representation is THE most pressing social issue or something I think should be "fough" for, Hollywood does what gives them money, they don't actually give a shit about being good for people.

Diversity itself is not a strength, but rather just an attribute, it can be positive but it also can be annoying and out of touch, when you take a group of people and make a token out of them to parade your own self perceived virtue for example.


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## Zeke Von Genbu (Aug 29, 2020)

A honest take of what it is like being X minority and trying to explain your real and honest experiences can provide insight, especially if it is an uplifting tale of how they broke out of their situation can be something nice for people within those groups to see especially younger people. I think it is fair to say that everyone's life has its own varying set of challenges and sometimes those challenges are directly related to something uncontrollable like being black, being gay, etc. You can argue that those stories are worth exploring in some way through media, and how someone outside of that minority can't properly convey everything as well as someone within that minority. The challenge is to convey those experiences without it becoming effectively fan fiction of your life where your self insert MC is an underdog hero hated by everyone and has to fight back against *THE MAN*.

I think those types of things can have value and are worth exploring if they can be interesting to an audience, but solely a character being X or Y with some throwaway reason why they're X and Y is really boring and feels pandering and from the interactions I've had with woke people that seems to be "good enough" apparently.

I find forced pandering insulting because it feels like corporations are just using terms and words for pure profit without any form of artistic merit or value. They're effectively trying to subtly exploit people within those minorities as a cheap marketing trick. I don't see "representation" in that, I see "gimmicks" and/or "pointless lip service". Like you could just change someone's sexual orientation and nothing else and that'd be good enough for some people, and I just can't fathom that thought process whatsoever.


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## Sage In All Fields (Aug 29, 2020)

The question is what is 'representation', I'm Muslim, I like seeing Muslims making shows about Muslim things, I think it makes sense to want to have your views represented. What I don't like is random kufs & 'liberal Muslims' sticking Muslims in things for woke points and making us suit their view of what Islam should be. As for race representation I think people caring that much about race is a disease.


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## JektheDumbass (Aug 29, 2020)

If done correctly, diversity is great.  I love reading and watching stories from places very different from my own.  But it can't be lazy.  For example, a short story written from the point of view of a woman who lives in a country with strict Shariah law might be interesting.  Reading a story about a nonbinary genderqueer pansexual muslim written by an upper-class white person who has only seen actual muslims on TV is not going to be worth my time.


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## Saffronette (Aug 29, 2020)

Personally, I didn't find myself relating to a lot of black characters on TV shows when I was younger. I found myself identifying with characters that were non-human most of the time because they were often better written. I think representation in media can be done well if there's proper time and thought put into it. However...




What people essentially want in modern shows is tokenism disguised as diversity. Which often leads to forgettable characters and blatant stereotypes.


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## Malagor the dank omen (Aug 29, 2020)

SageInAllFields said:


> The question is what is 'representation', I'm Muslim, I like seeing Muslims making shows about Muslim things, I think it makes sense to want to have your views represented. What I don't like is random kufs & 'liberal Muslims' sticking Muslims in things for woke points and making us suit their view of what Islam should be.





JektheDumbass said:


> For example, a short story written from the point of view of a woman who lives in a country with strict Shariah law might be interesting


This is one of the reasons i came to love Iranian films. They are hard to find but they are absolutely amazing in the terms of plot and characters, as well as seeing a culture that differs from your own but you can relate because the characters are still human and you see them as being people that you can relate to in a much different setting. A movie i particularly liked was "Until the end of Time", which hit really close to me and i always recommend for the feels.


Zeke Von Genbu said:


> A honest take of what it is like being X minority and trying to explain your real and honest experiences can provide insight, especially if it is an uplifting tale of how they broke out of their situation can be something nice for people within those groups to see especially younger people. I think it is fair to say that everyone's life has its own varying set of challenges and sometimes those challenges are directly related to something uncontrollable like being black, being gay, etc. You can argue that those stories are worth exploring in some way through media, and how someone outside of that minority can't properly convey everything as well as someone within that minority. The challenge is to convey those experiences without it becoming effectively fan fiction of your life where your self insert MC is an underdog hero hated by everyone and has to fight back against *THE MAN*.


Inevitably, there will always be a little bit of the author in his works and his characters no matter what. The problem is how much of the author is in the character. Self inserts usually come from novel writers who are inexperienced at creating characters or people who cannot put themselves in other's people shoes, like many SJWs today are. They are self centered in almost every facet of their lives and that extends also to their creative process, creating characters that are nothing but a carbon copy of the author since the author just wants to live a power fantasy.

But for me the problem is that self inserts are usually the Mary Sue/Gary Stu type of character: flawless in every sense, extremely apt at everything, liked by the good guys and only hated by the bad guys. And it's just a proxy for the author fantasy, which it's the lamest thing ever to do (which i will admit i did in my past). A character must have flaws to overcome, lessons to learn, tribulations to get over with. The tale must be one of adventure as well as personal growth.


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## TitanWest (Aug 29, 2020)

It's not about making an enjoyable product. 

Anti-whites have a strong antipathy towards white people so they want them removed from positions of power and from mainstream culture. A few whites who submit and support things like BLM will be spared for now. Anti-whites also want white people ethnically replaced in all Western countries which is why they love Open Borders (But mostly just for The West).



Spoiler: Redpills


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## Fandom Trash (Aug 29, 2020)

Lately I have been dabbling a bit in writing original stories for fun, and I have been checking out writing forums and reddit (yes, I know) for tips on ideas on how to plot my stories and noticing an increase of writers who are now very, very concern about adding diversity into their stories. 

Which I understand, but a lot of new writers seem pretty scared of branching into such unknown territories, often asking how to write female characters properly or if their black character is an HONEST and TRUE person, and I'm like, "Who cares?"

So long as you make their personalities your number one priority, then the rest (race, sexuality, age, etc) will quickly follow. But I don't blame writers from being scared. It seems like everyday another writer is dragged through the dirt for not producing enough diversity in their story or didn't properly consult a REAL black, asian, muslim, etc person on how their characters should act. Its annoying and a scary thing to witness for anyone who just wants to write a fun, awesome story for people to enjoy. 

Then you have writers (cough, J.K, cough, Riordan) who add diversity for the sake of it and not because they find it particularly interesting.

Its a fine balance every writer ends up threading, and I just hope that eventually there will be time where a kid could go into a bookstore and find a wide range of interesting books to read and some of them just so happens to have some characters that look just like them and are cool, fun people to read about.


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## Buffy the SJW slayer (Sep 4, 2020)

I have no issues with media being more inclusive globally. I think it's important for people to be represented in forms of media. HOWEVER, this only seems to be pushed in the West. Okay, the West is more multicultural, but no-one is asking KPop bands to add in a gay black dwarf or Bollywood to feature an autistic aboriginal woman. I also think there's the real risk that when you add diversity for diversity's sake you end up diluting your purpose and alienating everyone. 

Moonlight was an example of a diverse film in that it was a black American story. I'm sure someone would still watch it and complain that it didn't feature an Indian, or an obese person or someone in a wheelchair. Then it just becomes an exercise in adding in as many types of people as you can in a soup that makes no sense. Some worlds/works of fiction suit this better, for example fantasy, sci-fi, but in other storytelling it rings false and takes you out of the story.


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## TitanWest (Sep 16, 2020)

Buffy the SJW slayer said:


> I have no issues with media being more inclusive globally. I think it's important for people to be represented in forms of media. HOWEVER, this only seems to be pushed in the West. Okay, the West is more multicultural, but no-one is asking KPop bands to add in a gay black dwarf or Bollywood to feature an autistic aboriginal woman. I also think there's the real risk that when you add diversity for diversity's sake you end up diluting your purpose and alienating everyone.



It's not about including everyone. It's about excluding people like you. They're not pro-black as much as they're anti-white. They WANT to make white people feel alienated because they hate white people. That's why they always put a spotlight on white people being "racist" and ignore others or give them a slap on the wrist. That's why they portray white characters as bad and nonwhite characters as good more often than not.



Buffy the SJW slayer said:


> Moonlight was an example of a diverse film in that it was a black American story. I'm sure someone would still watch it and complain that it didn't feature an Indian, or an obese person or someone in a wheelchair. Then it just becomes an exercise in adding in as many types of people as you can in a soup that makes no sense. Some worlds/works of fiction suit this better, for example fantasy, sci-fi, but in other storytelling it rings false and takes you out of the story.



No one complained about Moonlight because it didn't have white people in it. Diversity is about anti-whiteness. White women and white LGBT are only lumped in to pit them against the "straight white males".


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