# Lord & Taylor going out of business



## ComeoutandJULAY (Aug 27, 2020)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/08/27/lord-taylor-liquidation-sales-closing-all-stores/5643258002/
		



			https://archive.vn/q99F4
		


*Lord & Taylor going out of business: Store closings, liquidation sales begin*

Luxury department store chain Lord & Taylor is going out of business.

The company, which was acquired in 2019 by fashion rental subscription service Le Tote, said Thursday that it would close all of its 38 stores. The retailer had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Aug. 2 in a move that analysts viewed as a likely step toward liquidation.

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full story in the link


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## MrJokerRager (Aug 27, 2020)

I am too much of a pleb to understand why is this important?.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Aug 27, 2020)

I've never even walked inside an L&T.  Our local mall has one and it just looks too snooty.


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## Jonah Hill poster (Aug 27, 2020)

I used to work at a Bloomingdales and I’m surprised to see that they’re still open since L&T is closing for good. While I hate to see people lose their jobs and try hard to search for employment, it just goes to show that forcing people out of business (whether through a pandemic or literal rioting) is never going to lead to anything good.


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## Buttigieg2020 (Aug 27, 2020)

MrJokerRager said:


> I am too much of a pleb to understand why is this important?.


Physical retail is dead, unless you like Walmart.


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## The Last Stand (Aug 27, 2020)

At least they haven't burned down.


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## XYZpdq (Aug 27, 2020)

I didn't realize they had still been in business.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Aug 27, 2020)

The Last Stand said:


> At least they haven't burned down.


It might be time though...for a fire sale.







XYZpdq said:


> I didn't realize they had still been in business.


Neither did anybody else, apparently.


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## From The Uncanny Valley (Aug 27, 2020)

Still sucks to see retail go.


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## корона-тян (Aug 27, 2020)

Sucks to see it go. It was good for formal clothes that weren't Brooks Brothers level of snoot, but still presentable for a business environment.


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## Reverend (Aug 27, 2020)

Malls are dead, shopping in person is dead.   Those places that people once went to to buy things and browse multiple stores at once are going the way of the dinosaurs.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (Aug 27, 2020)

I thought it was about the two singers.


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## UselessIdiot (Aug 27, 2020)

XYZpdq said:


> I didn't realize they had still been in business.


I always get them mixed up with Bergdorf Goodman, although neither have ever had locations in my state.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Aug 27, 2020)

Uncanny Valley said:


> Still sucks to see retail go.





корона-тян said:


> Sucks to see it go. It was good for formal clothes that weren't Brooks Brothers level of snoot, but still presentable for a business environment.





Reverend said:


> Malls are dead, shopping in person is dead.   Those places that people once went to to buy things and browse multiple stores at once are going the way of the dinosaurs.


Corona is the most effective accelerant.


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## sasazuka (Aug 27, 2020)

Buttigieg2020 said:


> Physical retail is dead, unless you like Walmart.



I've never heard of this particular chain (I don't think they have it in Canada) but I'm someone who's not comfortable buying clothes online simply because I need to see and touch it in person before I'm comfortable that I'm not buying a shoddy product (and also because I'm just autistic enough to not like the feel of certain textures).


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## From The Uncanny Valley (Aug 27, 2020)

sasazuka said:


> I've never heard of this particular chain (I don't think they have it in Canada) but I'm someone who's not comfortable buying clothes online simply because I need to see and touch it in person before I'm comfortable that I'm not buying a shoddy product (and also because I'm just autistic enough to not like the feel of certain textures).



plus I hate paying for shipping


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## The Pink Panther (Aug 27, 2020)

Every mall I've ever been too has had a Lord & Taylor. I recognize that logo from anywhere.

Tis' sucketh to see it go.


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## Fanatical Pragmatist (Aug 27, 2020)

On one hand, lol ritzy clothing store goes under who gives a fuck.

On the other hand, the people behind the lockdown deserve one bullet for every business to go under as a result of their sacrificial policies _(*in Minecraft)_


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## Standardized Profile (Aug 27, 2020)

Did Lord & Taylor go up market in the last couple of decades, or do I have a completely warped idea of "snooty" and "ritzy?" I haven't been to one in ages. When I was a kid, it was the kind of place you'd go for church clothes, maybe first day of school clothes. We were never snooty or wealthy. Sometimes we went to K-Mart, sometimes we went to Lord & Taylor.

I remember one time a security guard killed a black shoplifter in the parking lot. Jesse Jackson flew out, discovered the security guard was also black, then flew home. There might be more nuances than that, but my unnuanced memory makes for the better story.


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## whatever I feel like (Aug 27, 2020)

Oh no, now what will I do when forced to not buy things for 8+ times their build cost.


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## hotcheetospuffs (Aug 27, 2020)

The Last Stand said:


> At least they haven't burned down.


They were looted and had fires during the recent Chicago riots.


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## Celebrate Nite (Aug 27, 2020)

Reverend said:


> Malls are dead, shopping in person is dead.


Depends on your location.  Majority of Long Island is nothing but shopping centers and malls, and as far as I know, the more well known malls are still kicking and have stuff in it to do.  In fact last time I was at the mall was last week and the only thing that was a ghost town was the food court.  All the tables and chairs were stored away and certain areas were wrapped up with that shit you wrap up packages to get mailed (no not bubble wrap, unfortunately.. it was green and see-through)


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## No. 7 cat (Aug 27, 2020)

Never heard of it. I imagine any premises retailer just has to be innovative, give people a reason to go there.


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## MalWart (Aug 27, 2020)

They've been struggling for decades. My mother worked for them in the early 90s, and they were already closing tons of stores back then before pulling out off the area completely in the early-mid 2000s. They actually attempted a comeback a few years ago, but that's all a pipe dream now that they've thrown in towel.


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## UselessIdiot (Aug 27, 2020)

Reverend said:


> Malls are dead, shopping in person is dead.   Those places that people once went to to buy things and browse multiple stores at once are going the way of the dinosaurs.


The upscale malls in my metro area do very well and have few vacancies, and they have cinemas and an array of restaurants to help attract people further. Most lower-end and mid-scale ones are struggling or have closed. Too many malls were built to begin with because of certain financial kickbacks in the past to just build them all over.


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## mindlessobserver (Sep 5, 2020)

Reverend said:


> Malls are dead, shopping in person is dead.   Those places that people once went to to buy things and browse multiple stores at once are going the way of the dinosaurs.



Not true. The trick is to have a reason to go besides just that one anchor store.  Also to build beautifully and make the place more of a park then a claustrophobic prison. The mall near where I live is completely open air, with water fountains and so on. Rather then rely on a big box retailer, its entry anchors are restaurants and breweries. The place is always busy, even during COVID. The fact that it's not enclosed probably helped them on that front.


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## Dysnomia (Sep 5, 2020)

I didn't even know they were still around. I don’t think I've seen one in about 20 years. Ours became a Macy's. Before thet it was Strawbridge's and before that John Wanamaker's. Those last two have been dead for ages.


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## DuckSucker (Sep 5, 2020)

Buttigieg2020 said:


> Physical retail is dead, unless you like Walmart.


Or live in a hipster city.

Malls are dying all over America and malls in my hometown, after 2008, started booming. One even expanded and acquired more land (it was an "open air mall" aimed at being one of those "live above the shops in apartments" "city-imitating" malls) and attracted Amazon and is now central/north-central of my city. Now that I think about it theres another place in my city called The Arboretum and its mostly a beautiful park first (yeah its a parking lot but its kinda beautiful for a parking lot, lots of oaks and overhanging trees and grass) and they have shops in it, they actually have a huge Barnes and Nobles that managed to hang on through all the e-book shit because it's in there.

There are lot of boutiques and small niche shops but I dont know how theyre faring with Corona.

It seems like like Mindlessobserver posted, open air malls with attractions like restaurants and parks and shit like that over just big box retailers and chain stores are the way to go.

I saw a YT once where someone mentioned one of Subways big faults was that its rapid expansion to outgrow Quiznos was that it had so many chains they were eating each other. Thats the kind of late stage capitalism youre kinda seeing with these chains and shit and the malls, and why its good to have competition and local shit and small businesses.


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## L50LasPak (Sep 5, 2020)

At the end of the day I don't think I can cry over any retail chain going out of business. They mostly remind me of being a little kid and getting dragged around from place to place for hours, even long after I had visited the stores I actually wanted to check out or spent my pocket change on the arcade games in the movie theater lobby. 

I say that as a very strong materialist too.


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## Celebrate Nite (Sep 5, 2020)

L50LasPak said:


> They mostly remind me of being a little kid and getting dragged around from place to place for hours


What kid DIDN'T go through that?  That's like saying "I hate amusement parks because I had a traumatic experience with the roller coasters" when all they can do is simply not go on roller coasters and enjoy the rest of the amusement park.


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## L50LasPak (Sep 5, 2020)

SSF2T Old User said:


> What kid DIDN'T go through that?  That's like saying "I hate amusement parks because I had a traumatic experience with the roller coasters" when all they can do is simply not go on roller coasters and enjoy the rest of the amusement park.



Eh I meant it as more like a meditation on consumer culture. I like to shop too, but generally I think there was a time period in the 1990s where people were overwhelmingly doing too much of it. Malls are very much a symbol of that for me. Even at the time the spendspendspend culture didn't seem sustainable to me. Its also not like I'm the first person to think that way either, its all over pop culture from the era.

Its actually kind of interesting to think about because the original idea of a shopping mall wasn't designed to make you waste your whole day shopping, it was just a convienient way to visit multiple stores in the same trip with a pleasant atmosphere in between. I'm no expert, but the theory goes that it mutated somewhere along the lines. I might look that up later.


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## UselessIdiot (Sep 5, 2020)

The 90s and early 2000s were when the market was at its biggest for frivolous items, and malls had an array of cool novelty stores. I definitely don't like going out shopping as much as I used to. I used to love always going various malls, but now I just stick to going the upscale ones every so often.

Online shopping is much more appealing to me now, but I try to be much more frugal than back in the 2000s. The Great Recession has had a permanent effect on how I view the economy and living, but that's a good thing overall.


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## IAmNotAlpharius (Sep 30, 2020)

NOT Sword Fighter Super said:


> I've never even walked inside an L&T.  Our local mall has one and it just looks too snooty.



The store was for people who wanted to feel rich. It was incredibly inept and got what it deserved.


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## IAmNotAlpharius (Sep 30, 2020)

I like observing failing businesses for the same reason I like following lolcows. I find it interesting and you can learn a lot from their failures. I’ve followed Lord & Taylor for a few years out of morbid curiosity and also out of spite (I won’t delve into details but I dislike the company a lot, lol). I also follow a few other companies like Blockbuster but I only really dislike L&T personally.

In regards to Lord & Taylor there were several key flaws, arguably decisions made years ago that doomed the organization. The biggest issue is that they had almost no brand recognition with shoppers below 50. Their customer base is literally dying off. They really catered to nostalgia and failed to expand to the next generation.

The second was that they had serious opposition to change at multiple levels of the organization and they were very slow to adapt. In many ways this ties to the first issue because above all they wanted to placate nostalgia. In particular their web store was faulty, did not list actual correct prices, frequently had the wrong phone numbers (some store numbers were private cell phones) and any attempt at change, even just updating correct information to the site, was met with extreme opposition.

The third is that they were very fake. L&T target customer base is not actual rich people but people who want to feel rich. This isn’t bad per say and it’s not the only luxury brand that does this but the issue with this is that they set high expectations and were not willing or capable of meeting them. The issue was endemic throughout the whole organization from the top to the bottom, from customer service to their supply chain. The company would repeatedly fail customers along the way and they were able to get away with it because of the nostalgic veneer which they have been slowly losing. This also applies to their products, I can’t say how often it occurs but I can personally state for a fact that _some_ of their merchandise is actually fake but they’re selling it as if it’s legitimate. They don’t particularly care that they are getting and selling fake merchandise, at least some of the time, because it meant higher profit margins and they know the company was going to die anyways. They also failed to invest in their employees to provide the level of service that their customers expected.

Lastly, the C-level executives all knew it was a lost cause and were milking it for as long as possible before moving on. They didn’t have the will to keep fighting on and could read the writing on the wall. I don’t blame them per say since it’d take a miracle worker to save the company, but they didn’t really care, they just did the bare minimum to make it look like they were going to right the ship.

TLDR: company only appealed to literal nostalgic boomers and was constantly ticking them off. Their death was inevitable.


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## Save Goober (Sep 30, 2020)

IAmNotAlpharius said:


> like observing failing businesses for the same reason I like following lolcows. I find it interesting and you can learn a lot from their failures. I’ve followed Lord & Taylor for a few years out of morbid curiosity and also out of spite (I won’t delve into details but I dislike the company a lot, lol). I also follow a few other companies like Blockbuster but I only really dislike L&T personally.


I'm also a fan of following failing businesses, I suppose it's a combination of interest in business and lolcow watching. One of my favorite old livejournal communities was the Borders community around the time Borders was failing, and all the employees would vent about everything stupid thing the company tried.
Do you have any book/blog/other recommendations for business lolcow watching? I enjoyed reading _Bad Blood, _and Company Man on YouTube has some pretty good videos. Thanks for the write up by the way, it's very illuminating.


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## TopCat (Sep 30, 2020)

Another one bites the bust...


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## UselessIdiot (Sep 30, 2020)

melty said:


> I'm also a fan of following failing businesses, I suppose it's a combination of interest in business and lolcow watching. One of my favorite old livejournal communities was the Borders community around the time Borders was failing, and all the employees would vent about everything stupid thing the company tried.
> Do you have any book/blog/other recommendations for business lolcow watching? I enjoyed reading _Bad Blood, _and Company Man on YouTube has some pretty good videos. Thanks for the write up by the way, it's very illuminating.


What stupid things did Borders do?

I loved that store, and I really miss them. I think I liked their stores better than Barnes & Noble.


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## Save Goober (Sep 30, 2020)

UselessIdiot said:


> What stupid things did Borders do?
> 
> I loved that store, and I really miss them. I think I liked their stores better than Barnes & Noble.


It's hard to remember, and a lot of it was just normal employee venting about how their job used to be fun and now wasn't which I can't really comment on. But a couple of things I remember were a poorly conceived e-reader to compete with Kindle and Nook, and stocking the stores with tons of toys and other shit completely unrelated to books instead of things customers were actually looking for.

Since then I've noticed that stocking toys and unrelated pop culture novelties is sort of a hail mary slash death knell for businesses, think stores with walls of funko pops. I guess Barnes & Noble does this to some extent and they're still around, but it's definitely a bad sign.

The community is here: https://iworkatborders.livejournal.com/


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## UselessIdiot (Sep 30, 2020)

melty said:


> It's hard to remember, and a lot of it was just normal employee venting about how their job used to be fun and now wasn't which I can't really comment on. But a couple of things I remember were a poorly conceived e-reader to compete with Kindle and Nook, and stocking the stores with tons of toys and other shit completely unrelated to books instead of things customers were actually looking for.
> 
> Since then I've noticed that stocking toys and unrelated pop culture novelties is sort of a hail mary slash death knell for businesses, think stores with walls of funko pops. I guess Barnes & Noble does this to some extent and they're still around, but it's definitely a bad sign.
> 
> The community is here: https://iworkatborders.livejournal.com/


Yeah, Barnes & Noble has a ton of Funko Pops now. I know this one chain named FYE also switched from selling mainly CDs and DVDs to pop culture junk. It just seems like a very unsustainable business model.


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## IAmNotAlpharius (Sep 30, 2020)

melty said:


> I'm also a fan of following failing businesses, I suppose it's a combination of interest in business and lolcow watching. One of my favorite old livejournal communities was the Borders community around the time Borders was failing, and all the employees would vent about everything stupid thing the company tried.
> Do you have any book/blog/other recommendations for business lolcow watching? I enjoyed reading _Bad Blood, _and Company Man on YouTube has some pretty good videos. Thanks for the write up by the way, it's very illuminating.



I was going to recommend Company Man. I don’t follow any blogs but in general I’m interested in failing companies so I just find YouTube videos and follow them in the news. It’s how I found Company Man to begin with. I can share some videos I previously watched but the only channel I consistently follow is Company Man. Are there any you would recommend?



			https://youtu.be/__Ki5pVrTFM
		




			https://youtu.be/p2LDREHT4eg
		




			https://youtu.be/4vU7nH_ggG4
		


I followed Blockbuster a lot in the past and I’m currently following a lot of Disney, GameStop, and Sears. I’ve also kept tabs on Toys R Us for a while. L&T is one of the companies I’ve followed the closest because it’s very dysfunctional and the one I happen to have the most incidental knowledge of.

I generally follow two different sources: 1. bitter and slightly nutty ex-employees. 2. Boring news articles and serious analytical videos. The former sometimes are eccentric, and it makes it more enjoyable for cathartic reasons. Sometimes I get a kick out of reading glass door and customer service reviews.

Edit
I haven’t read _Bad Blood_ but I might pick it up. Theranos was an interesting company and I have definitely read a few articles and watched a few YouTube videos on it.


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## murdered meat bag (Sep 30, 2020)

melty said:


> It's hard to remember, and a lot of it was just normal employee venting about how their job used to be fun and now wasn't which I can't really comment on. But a couple of things I remember were a poorly conceived e-reader to compete with Kindle and Nook, and stocking the stores with tons of toys and other shit completely unrelated to books instead of things customers were actually looking for.
> 
> Since then I've noticed that stocking toys and unrelated pop culture novelties is sort of a hail mary slash death knell for businesses, think stores with walls of funko pops. I guess Barnes & Noble does this to some extent and they're still around, but it's definitely a bad sign.
> 
> The community is here: https://iworkatborders.livejournal.com/


borders was one of amazon's first casualties.  i remember during middle and high school that you could go to borders for manga and b film dvds. but in college, it was cheaper to get them from amazon. at that point dvds were hitting 29.99 for new releases, cds were like 25-30  and bfilms that used to be 19.99 go for 32.


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## GHTD (Oct 2, 2020)

melty said:


> I guess Barnes & Noble does this to some extent and they're still around, but it's definitely a bad sign.



B&N isn't doing all that great either. They just got bought by a hedge fund and taken private, which usually isn't a great sign.



			https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/elliott-management-to-acquire-barnes-noble-for-683-million.html


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## moocow (Oct 5, 2020)

GHTD said:


> B&N isn't doing all that great either. They just got bought by a hedge fund and taken private, which usually isn't a great sign.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/elliott-management-to-acquire-barnes-noble-for-683-million.html


I'm still grumpy with them for their shenanigans with the Nook. The first-gen Nook had an e-ink screen and a little strip of a touchscreen LED display at the bottom, and was pretty nice overall. It was also rootable and could run basically any Android APK via sideloading. Great little reader and a fine competitor to the Kindle.

That apparently pissed B&N off something fierce, so they locked down the first proper Nook Tablet hard with an encrypted bootloader, sideloading disabled, dev mode disabled, everything. That sucked, because at the time it was one of the highest-spec'd tablets you could buy, but it was stuck only running B&N-approved apps from their gimpy app store. As far as I know it was never (publicly) cracked or even rooted. Someone on XDA teased that they'd managed to break the bootloader open, but claimed they didn't want to release it because they didn't want B&N to patch it out in later Nook releases. I don't think the crack ever got released.


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## MalWart (Oct 5, 2020)

GHTD said:


> B&N isn't doing all that great either. They just got bought by a hedge fund and taken private, which usually isn't a great sign.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/elliott-management-to-acquire-barnes-noble-for-683-million.html


Hey now, I'm partly responsible for keeping B&N in business. Although I haven't actually purchased a book in years, I'll stop by their cafe and grab a couple of their triple chocolate chip cookies since those fuckers are delicious.


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## Save Goober (Oct 6, 2020)

IAmNotAlpharius said:


> I was going to recommend Company Man. I don’t follow any blogs but in general I’m interested in failing companies so I just find YouTube videos and follow them in the news. It’s how I found Company Man to begin with. I can share some videos I previously watched but the only channel I consistently follow is Company Man. Are there any you would recommend?


I don't really have any other sources besides Company Man either. Maybe there's potential for a lolcow companies thread, or maybe it's too niche and too hard to find entertaining information. I think my favorite Company Man video is Enron if you haven't already seen it:


			https://youtu.be/hwollZoVmUc
		


Thanks for sharing those videos, I'll check them out. Billion Dollar Lessons is a book about how different companies failed, and some of the anecdotes are amusing but it approaches it from a business lesson perspective so it's overall pretty dry.  I'd love to find more books like _Bad Blood_ which is much more entertaining_._ There's a book about Uber that looks promising. Theranos was definitely a lolcow company, it's insane all the stuff they did.


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## IAmNotAlpharius (Oct 6, 2020)

melty said:


> I don't really have any other sources besides Company Man either. Maybe there's potential for a lolcow companies thread, or maybe it's too niche and too hard to find entertaining information. I think my favorite Company Man video is Enron if you haven't already seen it:
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/hwollZoVmUc
> ...


A general thread would be interesting. The problem is it’s kinda slow moving and a lot of the information is dry. I can see it being an issue too if someone breaks an NDA or something. So I’m not sure how well it’d go. I might take a whack at it later.

Theranos is pretty crazy and it was definitely one of the biggest lolcow companies ever. I’ve heard whispering about Uber and Zoom but I’m not too familiar with either.


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## GHTD (Oct 7, 2020)

MalWart said:


> Hey now, I'm partly responsible for keeping B&N in business. Although I haven't actually purchased a book in years, I'll stop by their cafe and grab a couple of their triple chocolate chip cookies since those fuckers are delicious.



There was a place I worked at a while back which was next to a B&N. Occasionally on my break I'd go over there to get something, so fuck yeah.


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## Kosher Dill (Oct 7, 2020)

About "corporate lolcows", I'd nominate Zappos and their "holacracy" experiment. Unfortunately it's a bit hard to find information about it that's not PR shilling.


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