# What is the female power fantasy ?



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 14, 2021)

The Male Power Fantasy is something that been lambasted and mocked for the last half century, and while it's been beaten with every possible cudgel women have been raised up. The single mother has been made into a symbol of strength for some reason and it really makes me wonder what is the female power fantasy? Generally the Male Power Fantasy is active, striving to be something, but Female Power Fantasies tend to be passive like Carrie Bradshaw don't really exist to push something, they're a career woman who already has some level of power and influence generally past an age where she would really be desirable. It seems to be more to have power without responsibility, most male power fantasies do dip into revenge fantasy, but the paradigm is the rise above revenge in most of the ones that transcend entertainment in some way. 

I guess if you want to bitch about white women do that, too. It's just something I've noticed from all those Lifetime and Hallmark movies, but the Harley Quinn stuff too. They don't suffer from consequences of wrong action and a lot of them tend to horrible people if the main character-ness wears off.  I liked Superhero comics growing up and every few years I'll dip my head in to bitch about how "Back in my day!", but maybe it's the weeb in me, but the Western Female Power Fantasy is just a petty tyrant. 

Don't comment on Wonder Woman because she's just a cucks fetish about being tied up and pegg'd.


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## Sage In All Fields (Nov 14, 2021)

there is no female power fantasy, only female submission fantasies, women are not meant to have power


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## Red Hood (Nov 14, 2021)

Miranda Richardson as Queen Elizabeth in BlackAdder II.

Has basically unlimited power and uses it to be completely childish.


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## User names must be unique (Nov 14, 2021)

You never heard of a Mary Sue?


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## wtfNeedSignUp (Nov 14, 2021)

In a more civilized times it would be being a mother married to a good man. Nowadays it's basically being a massive bitch that doesn't work or socialize yet is always the biggest person in the room, which can be described as the male power fantasy only without the "improving your environment" it commonly has.


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## Agarathium1066 (Nov 14, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> In a more civilized times it would be being a mother married to a good man. Nowadays it's basically being a massive bitch that doesn't work or socialize yet is always the biggest person in the room, which can be described as the male power fantasy only without the "improving your environment" it commonly has.


So Chantal? She technically hits that definition.


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## wtfNeedSignUp (Nov 14, 2021)

Agarathium1066 said:


> So Chantal? She technically hits that definition.


I didn't mean biggest person literally.


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## libRT (Nov 14, 2021)

Tele-Wallet-Kinesis


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## Prophetic Spirit (Nov 14, 2021)

Just like Male Power Fantasy, is a butchered definition depending of the times.
At least in my case, is just reach the same level as the afromentioned shit i said earlier, because feminine traits are actually bad view by this motherfucking group which try so hard to appeal but always failing called feminists (3rd wave).


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## Lemmingwise (Nov 14, 2021)

Women don't have power fantasies. They have disempowered fantasies.

They live in the fantasy that they're oppressed because if they knife their boyfriend, and he calls the police, they take him away and leave her in his apartment.


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## Lone MacReady (Nov 14, 2021)

The hilarious thing about the current marxist age, is that the ""powerful female"" fantasy ends up being a perfect representation of "toxic masculinity". Women are being trained to be men.


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## Jarolleon (Nov 14, 2021)

wtfNeedSignUp said:


> In a more civilized times it would be being a mother married to a good man. Nowadays it's basically being a massive bitch that doesn't work or socialize yet is always the biggest person in the room, which can be described as the male power fantasy only without the "improving your environment" it commonly has.


In more civilized times it was probably Empress Livia Drusilla. Controlling the men around her and letting them suffer all the consequences, and using subtle machinations to shape the future of her society.


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## Penis Drager (Nov 14, 2021)

Male power fantasy: "I can do anything and don't need nobody to do it for me!"
Female power fantasy: "I don't have to do anything because everyone else does it for me!"


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## Idiotron (Nov 14, 2021)

Twilight.
A girl with zero personality or likable traits has all the guys fawn over her, proclaim everlasting love for her, do everything for her, give everything to her, fight wars over her etc.
Everyone likes her, even the villains know she's super special and important.
She doesn't do anything, all of this is happening just because she exists.
That's a female power fantasy.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Nov 14, 2021)

Male  power fantasy: Work hard to become attractive and accomplished, get attractive woman because you earned it.
Female power fantasy: Be plain and uninteresting, get attractive man despite not working for it.


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## Don't Tread on Me (Nov 14, 2021)

r/FemaleDatingStrategy
					

r/FemaleDatingStrategy: The only dating subreddit exclusively for women! We focus on effective dating strategies for women who want to take control …




					www.reddit.com


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## Sithis (Nov 14, 2021)

It's been my experience that men typically seek power because they want to be able to do whatever they want without other people fucking with them or hurting them, and women seek power because they want to be able to fuck with and damage anyone they want to.


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## MerriedxReldnahc (Nov 14, 2021)

To be a hot bikini-clad barbarian babe on a motorcycle in a post apocalyptic wasteland, killing orcs with a broadsword, my hair is always perfect and my boobs are 2 cup sizes bigger.


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## Save Goober (Nov 14, 2021)

I have the same power fantasies guys do. Also, a lot of these "female power fantasies" are written by guys. This is just another iteration "when men do something it's good and wholesome but when women do it, it's bad"


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## 419 (Nov 14, 2021)

see:


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## Honka Honka Burning Love (Nov 14, 2021)

Peggy Bundy.


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## Unpaid Emotional Labourer (Nov 14, 2021)

Probably a very “Galadriel feelin’ herself” moment, but I would also like to command a unit of like, Praetorian guard types. If I could direct the energies of like 10 dudes, I could really accomplish some shit.

Maybe I just really like Cate Blanchett because I am also partial to her Héla costume.

Also Miranda Priestly from Devil Wears Prada, very good 60+ yo queen vibe.


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## HullDown (Nov 14, 2021)

Male power fantasies change when people age - tweens might fantasize of being Batman or some isekai protagonist, but older guys think of what they'd do as a Bezos or a Musk. Women presumably also go from a Twilight to a Female Entrepreneur President fantasy, with who knows how many stops in between. It's all insanely bad for your mental health, anyway, so it's like discussing who has the best type of heroin addiction.


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## Lemmingwise (Nov 14, 2021)

Lone MacReady said:


> The hilarious thing about the current marxist age, is that the ""powerful female"" fantasy ends up being a perfect representation of "toxic masculinity". Women are being trained to be men.


They're not, they are trained to do things that eschew fertility. They're not trained to have honor, self-sacrifice, courage. It doesn't really matter as long as they don't become homemakers before 30. And after that it's pretty hard, so the (anti)fertility game is won.



HullDown said:


> Women presumably also go from a Twilight to a Female Entrepreneur President fantasy



And after the 95% who don't achieve joy from a high powered career wake up, they get the fantasy of finding a good guy in their thirties.


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## Penis Drager (Nov 14, 2021)

Save Goober said:


> This is just another iteration "when men do something it's good and wholesome but when women do it, it's bad"


When men act like men it's good and wholesome. When men act like women, it's bad
When women act like women it's good and wholesome. When women act like men, it's bad.

Any further questions?


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## Pampered Degenerate (Nov 14, 2021)

To be Carrie from Sex and the City.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 14, 2021)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Male  power fantasy: Work hard to become attractive and accomplished, get attractive woman because you earned it.
> Female power fantasy: Be plain and uninteresting, get attractive man despite not working for it.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Male power fantasies involve more of "being a badass" (normally by way of an innate special power) rather than "working to be a badass", with the latter being an incidental factor if it's materialized in a narrative at all. That is to say, the "training" is merely used as an explanation for how a character got from point A to point B as opposed to being used to affect the character's characterization in a notable way. It's also difficult to say that they attract attractive women on account of "earning it" in these narratives-- rather, they often do the bare minimum ("be nice") and end up with a gorillion women on their dicks.

...you're spot on with the female power fantasy as I've observed it, though. The reason I'm derisive of how men gain the favor of women in male power fantasies is because the women being attracted to them is only another manifestation of their renown-- often, the women don't receive character development, and their adoration of the protagonist isn't based in real chemistry (especially since the protagonist will often be as plain as Wonder Bread, without any particular flaws outside of maybe being dense or outright comedically autistic).

But the man _does something _to attract those women, or _does something_ that happens to attract those women, however perfunctory it is upon analysis. That "doing something" won't typically happen in a female power fantasy, as though even _proxy_ power ("I'm married to the most powerful man in the world (and can manipulate him to do my bidding persuade him to tap into the goodness of his heart)") is sufficient for female titillation. In contrast, that would be hollow for even the most desperate of young boys seeking vicarious living. 

I don't find it difficult to figure why that would be.



Sithis said:


> It's been my experience that men typically seek power because they want to be able to do whatever they want without other people fucking with them or hurting them, and women seek power because they want to be able to fuck with and damage anyone they want to.


There must be plenty of male power fantasy narratives that take the form of revenge fics (i.e. the latter category).



Save Goober said:


> Also, a lot of these "female power fantasies" are written by guys.


Putting aside that "a lot" of these are written by women all the same, what about it? They're writing stuff that resonates with, appeals to, and sells well with _women_, which is why they can be understood as being indicative of the "female power fantasy"-- the sex of whoever writes a _female_ power fantasy has nothing to do with anything.



Save Goober said:


> This is just another iteration "when men do something it's good and wholesome but when women do it, it's bad"


Where's the lie?

...more seriously speaking: just because you're supposedly doing the same thing doesn't mean that it hits the same way. It's obvious enough, for example, that male and female power fantasies are notably different, despite the both of them being power fantasies.


Lemmingwise said:


> They're not, they are trained to do things that eschew fertility. They're not trained to have honor, self-sacrifice, courage. It doesn't really matter as long as they don't become homemakers before 30. And after that it's pretty hard, so the (anti)fertility game is won.


...so they're trained to be bootleg men.


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## Alexander Thaut (Nov 14, 2021)

be children, but be waited on hand and foot like princesses.


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## JamusActimus (Nov 14, 2021)

Imo it can't just be a male power fantasy but with a woman.
Margaret Thatcher is a role model to some women but Thatcher acted more like a man than a lot of her comtemporary.


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## Lemmingwise (Nov 14, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> often, the women don't receive character development, and their adoration of the protagonist isn't based in real chemistry (especially since the protagonist will often be as plain as Wonder Bread, without any particular flaws outside of maybe being dense or outright comedically autistic).


Real chemistry? When you're talking about it in the context of fiction it's more about chemistry that people find appealing. The great romantic love stories are rarely stories you'd actually want to live in, much like many adventure stories. They just seem good, but they wouldn't really be.

Real chemistry in the context of non-fiction, is just people that manage to tickle what the other sex finds attractive. Couragous, rule- breaking, high status males and young, fertile, easy-going females.  Although in both cases good looks (genes) can override most of that.

And it's about the markers more than the reality. A guy who acts couragous and a woman who looks fertile have an edge over those who might be more so but where it isn't as apparent.

---

PS, I'll throw up one more female power fantasy in the context of sex. To be so attractive that a man can't control himself and breaks all the rules including his own in his pursuit of her.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 14, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Real chemistry? When you're talking about it in the context of fiction it's more about chemistry that people find appealing. The great romantic love stories are rarely stories you'd actually want to live in, much like many adventure stories. They just seem good, but they wouldn't really be.


Yeah, I think I got carried away in that a little-- but only a little.

Indeed, it's not about "chemistry" per se, as much as it is how they weave a story as a unit-- whether we're talking about a distinct romantic subplot or how they, as a "romantic unit", affect the general narrative. Chemistry is a part of this, but the point is ultimately "make an entertaining and/or thought-provoking story".

When I wrote "real chemistry", I was trying to communicate "tangible chemistry". As in, "I find it reasonable that these two characters are engaged in the relationship that they're engaged in, and I find their interactions entertaining, compelling and/or even a little jealousy-provoking".


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## Save Goober (Nov 14, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> There must be plenty of male power fantasy narratives that take the form of revenge fics (i.e. the latter category).


A good one is Wanted. Average Joe discovers he has a special power, does minimal training, uses his powers to get petty revenge on his ex gf, ex best friend, and boss, while landing the beautiful girl and saving the day. It really has all the worst traits of these power fantasies. Except I think technically Angelina Jolie saves the day, I don't really remember. It's just not a good movie.


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## Thomas Talus (Nov 14, 2021)

Being at the top of the social hierarchy.


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## Lord of the Large Pants (Nov 14, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Male power fantasies involve more of "being a badass" (normally by way of an innate special power) rather than "working to be a badass", with the latter being an incidental factor if it's materialized in a narrative at all. That is to say, the "training" is merely used as an explanation for how a character got from point A to point B as opposed to being used to affect the character's characterization in a notable way. It's also difficult to say that they attract attractive women on account of "earning it" in these narratives-- rather, they often do the bare minimum ("be nice") and end up with a gorillion women on their dicks.
> 
> ...you're spot on with the female power fantasy as I've observed it, though. The reason I'm derisive of how men gain the favor of women in male power fantasies is because the women being attracted to them is only another manifestation of their renown-- often, the women don't receive character development, and their adoration of the protagonist isn't based in real chemistry (especially since the protagonist will often be as plain as Wonder Bread, without any particular flaws outside of maybe being dense or outright comedically autistic).
> 
> ...


I actually have never figured out why that is. Explain further. Please be autism, I have patience.


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## FuckedOffToff (Nov 14, 2021)

Thomas Talus said:


> Being at the top of the social hierarchy.


I would say this is the closest. Men rule the country, as it were, women rule the court. Also, power behind the throne stuff, manipulate the guys into doing what you want, without them being aware of it.

Mean girls writ large.

A lot of women can't be bothered with that shite though, it's tiring, boring, and such an overwhelmingly negative way to live life. I feel a lot of girls learn that in their teens.

 The rest are on twitter or stream in some capacity, making it seem like they're everywhere.


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## Save Goober (Nov 14, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> They're writing stuff that resonates with, appeals to, and sells well with _women_, which is why they can be understood as being indicative of the "female power fantasy"-- the sex of whoever writes a _female_ power fantasy has nothing to do with anything.


Not really though. Several of the characters mentioned as embodying this I've never even heard of.

 Just look for lists of fictional women that other women admire or consider a power fantasy. It's not any of the stuff guys in the thread are saying. This thread is just guys talking about the female characters they are familiar with, concluding they're a "female power fantasy" that women love and then circle jerking about how right they are. Most threads like this have the same few examples because it's always the same few characters that guys happen to be familiar with.


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## HullDown (Nov 14, 2021)

Just to make some examples of actual crappy, degenerate books with male and female power fantasies, so we are not talking about stereotypes (and so I can flex how many bad books I read):

Male power fantasy: He Who Fights Monsters, by Shirtaloon. Unemployed, divorced Australian loser is randomly teleported to a fantasy world where a select elite of warriors fights monsters for a living, immediately gets one of the most OP power combos that natives didn't realize was amazing, and becomes an immortal Greek God with several beautiful girlfriends over the span of several years. Eventually gets back to Earth only to let his ex know how much better he is than her now. Everyone thinks he is super cool, and governments tremble before his power.

Female power fantasy: Deathbound Duke's daughter, by Terasu Seeno. A woman wakes up as an eight year old noble in the world of a game she was playing. Knowing exactly how people are going to act in the future, and to save her own skin as she is fated to die, she develops a new type of magic based on her knowledge of computers from our world, and becomes the love interest of several boys over the years as he saves their lives from various natural and supernatural threats. Everyone thinks she is amazing, and cool princes want to marry her for having saved their lives.

I honestly don't see this huge gender gap here. It's just the standard "wouldn't it be nice if life was effortless and everyone loved me" crack for people who don't have a lot to look forward to. If anything the "trapped in an otome" crap I read focuses more on the character building actual relationships, while the Isekai and westekai, Gor-inspired, stuff has a lot more of the "i have seventeen girlfriends, your argument is invalid" narratives.


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## MasterBaiter (Nov 14, 2021)

Oh god you people really need to hang around females more often. Just look at the cheap romance novels section . No matter what western women say ignore it they are to date the most stupid women i have seen on this planet if you tell them about gravity how it works they will jump out of the roof trying to prove that is not true or sexist or something. Like stop listening to them and look what sort trash literature is popular with women. Its always woman getting worshiped and fought over by multiple males or alternative one male beating the shit out of everyone for the heroine with side dish of beating the evil guy and steamy sex scenes. These themes and their variations are the foundation for multi billlion dollar industry in the form of novels, comics and books, just like the guy is the tough guy/ hero to save the day is for men .

I would submit my reading list as a proof but its fucking embarrassing.


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## MysticLord (Nov 14, 2021)

The female power fantasy is power without responsibility and authority without accountability - the ability to do whatever you want and not only to never face consequences, but to make other people suffer the consequences of your failures.

Topping from the bottom, basically. The power to seduce anyone, the change your appearance to suit the most powerful man in the room, to remain alluring and fertile forever.

Circe is a good example of a female power fantasy, as is Viviane/Nimue - a woman who seduced a powerful magician, learned his secrets, and as soon as she matched him in power locked him away. She did not destroy him because she may need him later, and in any case she knows she can seduce him again so it's not like there will be any consequences if he escapes.

Note that the goal of a woman in this power fantasy isn't necessarily to destroy everyone and be a psycho: it's to gain attention from a powerful man, to provoke him into seizing you, and to use him and your children (especially your sons) to control other people whom you can't overpower. This is due to the asymmetries in male vs female reproduction: a successful woman can have at most 20 kids; a succesful man can have tens of thousands of kids. People are animals, we have powerful reproductive drives like other animals. A woman seeks success through a man, hence her skills in manipulation and provocation.

In fiction you have 3 tropes specifically for women: seductress, mother, and hag. Arguably a fourth: child. You can of course have gender neutral characterization, but no one who is politically correct today can do it well.


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## HullDown (Nov 14, 2021)

Romance novels are by definition not a power fantasy - for both genders it tends to play out as "bland MC has incredible love interest that is Not Like the Other Girls/Boys/Werewolves". If the MC were amazing, and the focus of the series, the romance fantasy wouldn't work - you are supposed to think of how happy you would be if you were in the shoes of the protagonist, and if the protagonist deserves an amazing partner by virtue of being great themselves, your average low self esteem reader is going to check out. No one wants to be Bella, she is just a conduit for the readers to see more sexy sparkly vampires whose standards are apparently as low as the ground, and no one wants to be the male MC from Tomo-Chan wa Onnanoko or whatever other male-oriented romance series you can think of.

Power fantasies include romance, but not as a focus: only because a single loser is not something people pay money to imagine themselves as - the MC has to get girls/boys because _cool, amazing people like you, the reader, could be in this context ,would totally have amazing love interests. _If Twilight was a power fantasy, all vampires would be hunted to close extinction until Bella turns into one and starts kicking Van Helsing's ass. There's no such thing as a passive power fantasy, or a power fantasy where the MC has to ask a partner to do things he/she wouldn't be able to do. If anything, everyone surrounding the MC has to be incredibly ineffective - the protag isn't just able to solve everyone's problems, he is _needed._ Rather than Bella, think Lyra from His Dark Materials - an eleven year old girl who is the protagonist of a prophecy about multiple worlds, who is the only person capable of investigating a missing children case, and who ends up literally telling God that her moral compass is better than His. And girls loved HDM back when I was in school.

I'll close by saying that the scatological BDSM porn visual novel Euphoria is the best deconstruction of the power fantasy genre ever made, and I refuse to elaborate.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 14, 2021)

Save Goober said:


> Not really though.


Yes, really, though. The _Twilight_ and _50 Shades_ series weren't propelled to the notoriety that they were by the wallets of men.



Save Goober said:


> Several of the characters mentioned as embodying this* I've never even heard of.*


What of it? What does _you _not being familiar with something have to do with its presence? How do you end up saying this but also upvote what @MasterBaiter said about not listening to what women say they like and instead paying attention to what they actually buy which largely consists of being fawned and fought over by several men? You can just as well go to any fanfiction site and find countless projects written and primarily consumed by teenage girls that have the same fundamental features (to speak less of writing quality) as the aforementioned series.

And it makes sense for it to be this way, which brings me to answering:



Lord of the Large Pants said:


> I actually have never figured out why that is. Explain further. Please be autism, I have patience.


Women (Western women, in particular), from childhood, have been fed the fantasy of being whisked away from what amounts to strife and toil by a "knight in shining armor" or "Prince Charming". As they grow up, this often evolves into the notion of "the one", some man that's perfect for them in every single way. Because said women aren't made to sympathize with the creation of any kind of man of any level of quality or value (tangible or otherwise), many of them concoct a checklist for the kind of man that they want that can be summed up as "be Batman".

(We're not going to get into the delusions of many western men seeking intimacy, in the interest of relevance, but let it be known that women aren't the only ones with problems regarding expectations, and western men and women have common issues on top of that. And I am aware that there exceptions. Indeed, there are exceptions. I get it, you're different. You're special. You're not like all those other guys. You're not like all those other girls-- I am generalizing in the process of talking about a phenomenon that you managed to not be a part of.)

Both men and women want to be special (in a good way), because being special means more positive attention. However, men (who aren't the worst incels, at any rate) come to an understanding that their value is dictated by what they can earn and accumulate. Ergo, male power fantasies often involve the leverage of some special power(s) in order to accomplish goals that merit that notoriety (whether they're seen as an icon of good or a icon that inspires fear). In contrast, women are largely of the (accurate) understanding that what others value of them has more to do with their person than what they earn and accumulate. Female power fantasies, therefore, overwhelmingly have to do with having some special quality that isn't so much leveraged to accomplish goals that merit notoriety (they aren't the kind of quality that _can_ be) but are able to be appreciated by _powerful men_ who do powerful stuff around and *for* them, and who also fawn over them because of said quality.



HullDown said:


> No one wants to be Bella, she is just a conduit for the readers to see more sexy sparkly vampires whose standards are apparently as low as the ground


The point is that Bella, like many power fantasy protagonists, isn't anything to be. She has very little in the way of actual character _precisely_ because she's meant as a blank slate for the reader to project themselves onto.



HullDown said:


> and no one wants to be the male MC from Tomo-Chan wa Onnanoko


...pretty sure the protagonist for that one is a _woman _who tomboy'd so hard as a kid that she now has to work doubly hard to get her male childhood friend that she's been crushing on to properly acknowledge her as a woman, and said male childhood friend can't grasp that because his dick is broken and he has shit taste she tomboy'd so hard since they were kids that he's always looked at her as a dude.



HullDown said:


> If Twilight was a power fantasy, all vampires would be hunted to close extinction until Bella turns into one and starts kicking Van Helsing's ass. There's no such thing as a passive power fantasy, or a power fantasy where the MC has to ask a partner to do things he/she wouldn't be able to do.


Why not? Why does being special enough that several men will lose their shit over you and move on your behalf to do whatever you want-- ergo, having power over powerful men-- not constitute a power fantasy?


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## The Lizard Queen (Nov 14, 2021)

Romance novels are not a good idea of power fantasies any more than porn is.

As mentioned earlier, a typical Mary Sue protagonist is a perfect example. They are prerfect and loved without effort, and are usually linked to the major characters through little to no effort of their own. 
But, they're also independently powerful enough on their own, by vitue of their special nature, to overcome any problems that come their way.

Basically a Mary Sue doesn't need to do anything, but if they're forced to do a thing, it's something that comes naturally to them and is trivial.


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## HullDown (Nov 14, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> pretty sure the protagonist for that one is a _woman _who tomboy'd so hard as a kid that she now has to work doubly hard to get her male childhood friend that she's been crushing on to properly acknowledge her as a woman, and said male childhood friend can't grasp that because his dick is broken and he has shit taste she tomboy'd so hard since they we


I meant the dude who ends up with her, who is the stereotypical "project yourself into him" male MC. The point is exactly that romance focuses on the partners, power fantasies focus on the protagonist.


Zero Day Defense said:


> Why not? Why does being special enough that several men will lose their shit over you and move on your behalf to do whatever you want-- ergo, having power over powerful men-- not constitute a power fantasy?


Because Bella, and the other stereotypical romance protagonists, aren't special or clever by design. Twilight justifies the trope by saying she has a special smell or something, but it's pretty clear that aside from having received the interest of sparkly vampire boy, she is a nobody - and received is the right word; she has neither seduced nor ensnared him, she will go on for pages and pages about how incapable of seduction she is. She was just born with a funky smelling armpit or something. 

The female romance MC does not have the ability to twist men around their little finger, she just happens to be surrounded by the best men ever, and there usually will be some sort of danger that allows the men to show how much they are capable of doing - with the MC usually not even understanding exactly what is going on. Seriously, romance protags do not pass the sniff test for manipulators or Littlefinger types. They barely would pass as human if the author's didn't bother describing them.


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## MysticLord (Nov 14, 2021)

HullDown said:


> I meant the dude who ends up with her, who is the stereotypical "project yourself into him" male MC. The point is exactly that romance focuses on the partners, power fantasies focus on the protagonist.
> 
> Because Bella, and the other stereotypical romance protagonists, aren't special or clever by design. Twilight justifies the trope by saying she has a special smell or something, but it's pretty clear that aside from having received the interest of sparkly vampire boy, she is a nobody - and received is the right word; she has neither seduced nor ensnared him, she will go on for pages and pages about how incapable of seduction she is. She was just born with a funky smelling armpit or something.
> 
> The female romance MC does not have the ability to twist men around their little finger, she just happens to be surrounded by the best men ever, and there usually will be some sort of danger that allows the men to show how much they are capable of doing - with the MC usually not even understanding exactly what is going on. Seriously, romance protags do not pass the sniff test for manipulators or Littlefinger types. They barely would pass as human if the author's didn't bother describing them.


There's a genderswap of the first Twilight book, where the unremarkable high school boy is being stalked by a centuries old vampire woman who wants to bang him, suck his blood, and protect him from another vampire woman who wants to rape and eat him. There's also a huge muscular werewolf woman who also wants to have sex with him and turn him into a werewolf.

I never understood the appeal of Twilight until I read about this.


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## milfcoded (Nov 14, 2021)

I feel that most power fantasies, male or female, stem more from how people react to them vs what they actually are. The joker and Dom toretto are very different characters, but they have in common the fact that people treat them as big deals. The same applies to female power fantasies.

Bella Swan is swarmed by hot men who constantly remind her that she's innately special despite being boring as fuck. Harley Quinn is "quirky", secretly super smart and treated as a cool badass who stood up to a big bad. Amy Dunne is an intelligent, charismatic woman, who isn't viewed as a good person, but is still shown to have traits that many see as impressive.

It all depends on an in-universe reaction to these characters, at least that's what I think.


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## cease and desist (Nov 14, 2021)

Harley Quinn. Being brilliant and having an education and still choosing to be a dumb bitch and commit violence every single day


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## Save Goober (Nov 14, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> What of it? What does _you _not being familiar with something have to do with its presence? How do you end up saying this but also upvote what @MasterBaiter said about not listening to what women say they like and instead paying attention to what they actually buy which largely consists of being fawned and fought over by several men? You can just as well go to any fanfiction site and find countless projects written and primarily consumed by teenage girls that have the same fundamental features (to speak less of writing quality) as the aforementioned series.


I upvoted @MasterBaiter because it's a good response, and it's relevant because I probably would have at least heard of it if it were popular


Zero Day Defense said:


> The _Twilight_ and _50 Shades_ series weren't propelled to the notoriety that they were by the wallets of men.


These books came out well over a decade ago and are no longer culturally relevant, let it go. This isn't even the first time I've argued with you about something women related and you backed it up with "what about 50 shades". I sincerely hope one day you find a nice chill lady who appreciates you and you realize that women aren't actually all about 50 Shades and Twilight because you seem like an alright dude but you get a little too hung up on stereotypes sometimes.


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## Stormy Daniel's Lawyer (Nov 14, 2021)




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## The Last Stand (Nov 14, 2021)

To me: this is my female power fantasy:






When the going gets tough, you respond in kind. Great, relatable character development and mild sex appeal.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 15, 2021)

HullDown said:


> Because Bella, and the other stereotypical romance protagonists, aren't special or clever by design. Twilight justifies the trope by saying she has a special smell or something, but it's pretty clear that aside from having received the interest of sparkly vampire boy, she is a nobody - and received is the right word; she has neither seduced nor ensnared him, she will go on for pages and pages about how incapable of seduction she is. She was just born with a funky smelling armpit or something.


At some point in the series, it's revealed that she has the special power to negate the abilities of other vampires. When she gets vamp'd, she's furthermore able to create fields of vampire power negation.

But-- ironically!-- that's not very much here or there.

That said, this doesn't make the case for why _Twilight_ doesn't constitute a power fantasy. If I may be so bold, it would appear that you actually reject the concept of men and women having different ways of fantasizing about having power in the first place, such that a "power fantasy" for you can only be what someone like me would recognize as a _male_ power fantasy. Yes, I know you made a comment delineating an example of a male power fantasy and a female power fantasy in order to make a point about them being strikingly similar-- I'm asserting that this is your thought process appears to work out to despite that post.



Save Goober said:


> I upvoted @MasterBaiter because it's a good response, and it's relevant because I probably would have at least heard of it if it were popular


I have no idea about the gamut of your exposure or the extent of your awareness. For all I know, you're as culturally deaf as a naked mole rat living under a rock. You haven't provided a reason as to why your specific experience is particularly evidence of anything (and it _could _be, if you explained why), whereas the general understanding of female written fanfiction to those who are familiar with it and (in particular) known cultural phenomena involving _bestselling book series_ _and high-performing derivative movie franchises_ are stronger evidences of my claim.



Save Goober said:


> These books came out well over a decade ago


Did women go through some Copernican revolution in the past decade that I'm wholly unaware of that makes the popularity of these books completely irrelevant? Both of them have had immensely successful movie franchises; the _50 Shades_ movie trilogy in particular, whose first movie came out in 2015, is only less successful than those of _The Matrix, The Hangover_, and _Alien. _Are there franchises that have managed stronger cultural phenomena whose appeals are demonstrably different-- if not contradictory-- to those of said two oft-cited franchises?



Save Goober said:


> This isn't even the first time I've argued with you about something women related and you backed it up with "what about 50 shades".


This is most certainly the first time we've had a conversation wherein _50 Shades_ was brought up. This might be the first time we've had a serious discussion at all.



Save Goober said:


> I sincerely hope one day you find a nice chill lady who appreciates you and you realize *that women aren't actually all about 50 Shades and Twilight*


This was never claimed. It was never even described. Asserting that female power fantasies generally have a specific focus that can be contrasted with that of male power fantasies is nowhere in the same league as saying that all women are interested in that genre or that subtype of genre, and the only time I should have to point out that there are exceptions is when I'm actively mocking the expectation to state the obvious.

You've gone from "the people who write these so-called female power fantasies are largely men" (not true, not relevant) to "i've never heard of any of these characters so their popularity can't be used as demonstration of anything" (not relevant, not useful) to "YA/adult lit juggernauts are slightly old and are therefore no longer relevant" (not true).


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## Save Goober (Nov 15, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Words


I ain't reading all that dude. Another piece of advice I'd like to give you is to check out the book H_ow to Win Friends and Influence People_ by Dale Carnegie. There is nothing wrong with arguing with people autistically online but I'm not sure you're getting out of it what you think you are. You continually hone in on really minute details like liking somebody else's comment and miss the bigger picture because it gives you a better chance of "winning" the internet argument.


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## The Last Stand (Nov 15, 2021)

Save Goober said:


> I ain't reading all that dude. Another piece of advice I'd like to give you is to check out the book H_ow to Win Friends and Influence People_ by Dale Carnegie. There is nothing wrong with arguing with people autistically online but I'm not sure you're getting out of it what you think you are. You continually hone in on really minute details like liking somebody else's comment and miss the bigger picture because it gives you a better chance of "winning" the internet argument.


He said something about Twilight and vampires.






I got lost at the second paragraph.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 15, 2021)

Save Goober said:


> I ain't reading all that dude.


I could have (_should_ have, I'm becoming increasingly convinced) instead told you to fuck off for, as part of an embarrassingly timid snipe, deciding to inexplicably address a love life you know nothing about that was never made relevant to this discussion-- all while your argument becomes increasingly more amorphous (which makes your inclination to "give advice" even more baffling).



Save Goober said:


> You continually hone in on really minute details like liking somebody else's comment


You didn't even read the first sentence of what was directly addressed to you.


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## SouthernBitchBob (Nov 15, 2021)

I read something years ago that made total sense to me. I'm going to butcher/paraphrase it from memory.

The "male power fantasy" is pretty well known. Batman. Superman. Indiana Jones. James Bond. You're suave, cool, sexy. You've got skills and use them to save people. You beat your enemies and protect your loved ones. You struggle and eventually triumph. You save the village and are called a hero. We now have a glut of movies, books, TV shows, etc with female protagonists. We know which ones are popular. At this point, we should be able to piece together what the female power fantasy is. 

So what do a lot of these movies have in common? See if you can distill these plots down to their most basic story beats, ignore the useless details. Woman is down on her luck. She has terrible things happen to her; maybe it's a breakup, maybe it's a bad work environment, maybe it's birds shitting on her head. She goes to her friends and family for help, but they're not as sympathetic as they could be. Woman eventually can't take it anymore and starts yelling at her [group of aforementioned people], bitching them out for failing her. Sometimes the bitchout isn't necessary, sometimes they come around just from seeing how upset she is. The people are suitably chastened. They feel bad, and want to make it up to her. Woman is vindicated. Everyone tells her how sorry they were for not noticing her, or not helping her, or not being nice to her, or whatever. These previous steps are the same whether the woman actually ends up doing well on her own, or actually needing the help. It doesn't matter; the important part is the last act where everyone hangs their head and apologizes for not believing in her. Does this sound a lot like Bridesmaids? Bridget Jones? 10 things I hate about you? Danerys? 50 Shades?

It's looking kind of like the female power fantasy isn't so much about being a hero or rescuing people. It's more about the ability to be a huge bitch to your friends and feeling satisfied when reality takes your side.

The male power fantasy is being a celebrated hero. The female power fantasy is being a successful villain.


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## glad vlad (Nov 15, 2021)

Unpaid Emotional Labourer said:


> Probably a very “Galadriel feelin’ herself” moment, but I would also like to command a unit of like, Praetorian guard types. If I could direct the energies of like 10 dudes, I could really accomplish some shit.
> 
> Maybe I just really like Cate Blanchett because I am also partial to her Héla costume.
> 
> Also Miranda Priestly from Devil Wears Prada, very good 60+ yo queen vibe.



100%. Obviously the female power fantasy is to be an icy virgin queen with an elite guard at her command. OR, alternatively, being the witch priestess of the one true king. Something like that red haired lady from Game of Thrones is about right.


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## The Last Stand (Nov 15, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Women (Western women, in particular), from childhood, have been fed the fantasy of being whisked away from what amounts to strife and toil by a "knight in shining armor" or "Prince Charming". As they grow up, this often evolves into the notion of "the one", some man that's perfect for them in every single way.


Doesn't that derivate from a male power fantasy? Be a hero, save the girl, the world? Hell, Mario has been doing that since its inception. Damsel in distress is outdated for a reason.


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## Bonesjones (Nov 15, 2021)

Anime and Manga have really nailed down what the sexes find appealing. Shonen anime is about guys being rewarded for their struggles. 

Women's anime is about the power to turn men gay for your amusement.


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## Haramburger (Nov 15, 2021)

MasterBaiter said:


> Oh god you people really need to hang around females more often. Just look at the cheap romance novels section . No matter what western women say ignore it they are to date the most stupid women i have seen on this planet if you tell them about gravity how it works they will jump out of the roof trying to prove that is not true or sexist or something. Like stop listening to them and look what sort trash literature is popular with women. Its always woman getting worshiped and fought over by multiple males or alternative one male beating the shit out of everyone for the heroine with side dish of beating the evil guy and steamy sex scenes. These themes and their variations are the foundation for multi billlion dollar industry in the form of novels, comics and books, just like the guy is the tough guy/ hero to save the day is for men .
> 
> I would submit my reading list as a proof but its fucking embarrassing.


The Witchblade was probably the last healthy female power fantasy in capeshit:
 

Woman protagonist is a female cop
Gets magical MacGuffin that behaves like Carnage without any of the extra personality or evil
It explodes her clothes off sometimes and shows a hot bod, other times it's full-body armor
Other people want to steal it or make her be their pawn, she always gets it back and retains autonomy
She has both heroic and villainous love interests, and she gets to waffle between them
Because it's a MacGuffin, other women have had it going back through history and the alternate stories/settings and sisterhood is appealing to women
Random magic shit when the storyline gets stale


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## kūhaku (Nov 15, 2021)

Lord of the Large Pants said:


> Male  power fantasy: Work hard to become attractive and accomplished, get attractive woman because you earned it.
> Female power fantasy: Be plain and uninteresting, get attractive man despite not working for it.


There’s a basis in nature for this. In the wild, most male animals have to impress females, not the other way around. Therefore males are programmed to want to be the most fit mate and be successful, while this same drive is evolutionarily unnecessary for females


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## HullDown (Nov 15, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If I may be so bold, it would appear that you actually reject the concept of men and women having different ways of fantasizing about having power in the first place, such that a "power fantasy" for you can only be what someone like me would recognize as a _male_ power fantasy.


Late, so feed me clocks at your leisure, but I just want to make the point: I have absolutely zero problem with the idea that men and women are different, including in things as crucial to social life as shitty fanfiction and kindle-only romance novels. But I think it's only fair to compare similar with similar - crappy harem anime for boys vs. otome games for girls is a fair way to try and find out how creepy people of either sex fantasize about not being incels, but comparing Batman to Bella makes no sense. It's like trying to argue that men are creepier than women by comparing tentacle porn and Totally Spies, and noting that one has a lot more anal rape than the other.

 It's not like there's no capeshit equivalent for tween girls, take Sailor Moon and you have a much more natural comparison.


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## Meriasek (Nov 15, 2021)

The female power fantasy is basically summed up by teenage girl horse movies. It's that her existence and inherent awesomeness, and nothing else, have a lasting and transformative positive impact on a (sexy) man who submits to her will. 
Teenage girl horse movies/novels are blatant examples of that. It's always about a wild horse, often black, strong, and uber alpha, that is uncontrollable by anyone. Main character teen girl, preferably angsty and totally not like the others, arrives on the scene, and over time manages to befriend the dangerous stallion by her awesomeness.
Many female power fantasies are variations on that concept, "only the main chick can tame the wild man".


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## DumbDude42 (Nov 15, 2021)

look at womens media to find your answer

and i dont mean manchild nerd shit like comic books that are supposedly "for women" now because some jew writer makes wonder womyn spout annoying feminist lines now lmao, that is all artificial nonsense. i mean look at stories that women themselves actually seek out and read/watch on their own. romcom movies, romance novels, written erotica, all that.


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## JamusActimus (Nov 15, 2021)

Meriasek said:


> The female power fantasy is basically summed up by teenage girl horse movies. It's that her existence and inherent awesomeness, and nothing else, have a lasting and transformative positive impact on a (sexy) man who submits to her will.
> Teenage girl horse movies/novels are blatant examples of that. It's always about a wild horse, often black, strong, and uber alpha, that is uncontrollable by anyone. Main character teen girl, preferably angsty and totally not like the others, arrives on the scene, and over time manages to befriend the dangerous stallion by her awesomeness.
> Many female power fantasies are variations on that concept, "only the main chick can tame the wild man".


Now that I think about it _The Shape of Water _ is actually a girl horse movie


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## OrionBalls (Nov 15, 2021)

Mine is to buy up the empty bar/hotel in my one intersection town run a smokehouse out of it.


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## Scolopendra Dramatica (Nov 15, 2021)

I own my own home and everyone leaves me the fuck alone. 

There's a female power fantasy for you.


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## TerribleIdeas™ (Nov 15, 2021)

FuckedOffToff said:


> I would say this is the closest. Men rule the country, as it were, women rule the court. Also, power behind the throne stuff, manipulate the guys into doing what you want, without them being aware of it.
> 
> Mean girls writ large.
> 
> ...


It's usually called "power-by-proxy."


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## Ser Prize (Nov 15, 2021)

MasterBaiter said:


> Oh god you people really need to hang around females more often. Just look at the cheap romance novels section . No matter what western women say ignore it they are to date the most stupid women i have seen on this planet if you tell them about gravity how it works they will jump out of the roof trying to prove that is not true or sexist or something. Like stop listening to them and look what sort trash literature is popular with women. Its always woman getting worshiped and fought over by multiple males or alternative one male beating the shit out of everyone for the heroine with side dish of beating the evil guy and steamy sex scenes. These themes and their variations are the foundation for multi billlion dollar industry in the form of novels, comics and books, just like the guy is the tough guy/ hero to save the day is for men .
> 
> I would submit my reading list as a proof but its fucking embarrassing.


I once had someone recommend me Anity Blake. I had a good long laugh.


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## Ughubughughughughughghlug (Nov 15, 2021)

Being so pretty everybody gives you what you want because they’re thirsty.


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## Kickster (Nov 15, 2021)

The copium in this thread is so thick it has a of account


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## Bloitzhole (Nov 15, 2021)

ITT:
Single men who believe they have a perfect understanding of the female "mind"


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## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 15, 2021)

Man, this thread turned out great. Angry incels and bitter femcels coping. Probably a tranny lurking somewhere to boot.


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## Key the Metal Shitposter (Nov 15, 2021)

A good gauge for what consists of a "female power fantasy" is probably shoujo manga. If male power fantasy is being the strongest coolest guy who gets the girl, then the female power fantasy is being the prettiest and most interesting girl that every good man fights eachother over.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 15, 2021)

SouthernBitchBob said:


> It's looking kind of like the female power fantasy isn't so much about being a hero or rescuing people. It's more about the ability to be a huge bitch to your friends and feeling satisfied when reality takes your side.
> 
> The male power fantasy is being a celebrated hero. The female power fantasy is being a successful villain.


I'm skeptical about this explanation. On one hand, some of it sounds familiar-- the woman's frustration with not being "heard" (in contrast with the more concrete understanding of being heard and having action taken upon said being heard). But that's where my bridge ends, and it's still a shaky one to start.

Supposing this is the case, _why_ would it be? The assertion that the female power fantasy is one where a woman controls powerful men through their enamourment with her can make sense because we understand that woman are generally desired for "who they are", and that they in fact desire to be desired for "who they are". We also understand that women are generally comfortable with vicarious attaining of power and status by allying with powerful men (whereas men would be more wont to find this shameful).



The Last Stand said:


> Doesn't that derivate from a male power fantasy? Be a hero, save the girl, the world? Hell, Mario has been doing that since its inception. Damsel in distress is outdated for a reason.


Interesting question. I'd argue that it's ultimately irrelevant for two reasons:

Firstly, the fantasy of being rescued by said hero is easily able to be decoupled from the fantasy of _being _said hero.

Secondly, the focuses are different. The plotline of a Mario game is an excuse for you to do things, which is why Princess Peach isn't characterized at all and the prospect of being rescued from a biped turtle by a plumber isn't made attractive. Mario doesn't even work as a power fantasy because the extent of his innate strength is "jump good". In general, though, where the focus lies (whether it's with what the woman experiences or what the man experiences), is indicative of whose power fantasy it's at least meant to be.


HullDown said:


> But I think it's only fair to compare similar with similar - crappy harem anime for boys vs. otome games for girls is a fair way to try and find out how creepy people of either sex fantasize about not being incels, but comparing Batman to Bella makes no sense.


I argue that it _does_ make sense inasmuch as we're comparing manifestations of "power". It wouldn't make sense if Bella didn't have power worth comparing, but she functionally does because she has a harem of men at her beck and call to do the heavy lifting/fighting and who don't call her out for-- despite having zero personality-- still managing to be incredibly indecisive and selfish.

More importantly, the observation doesn't start or end with itself-- the reason why it sticks out as an example of a "female" power fantasy is because it's arguably consonant with how women generally vie for power and/or status in real life. This is what I grill @SouthernBitchBob about-- it's one thing to say "women want X", but the hypotheses only start making real sense when you can provide some kind of explanation for them.

There may be value in comparing similar material, but I also think that when you seek out facially similar material for comparison, you risk running into an issue where you're not comparing the same genre of fantasy as had by the two sexes, but instead you're comparing the same type of fantasy (whether male _*or*_ female) that just happens to have a protagonist of whichever sex.


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## Sailor (Nov 15, 2021)

Personally mine would be patrolling my farm with a my AK 47 that I live on with my hot husband and our ten beautiful aryan children 

I guess for Tiktok thots they want to be Cardi B and make money from shaking their ass and calling themselves Qweens as they buy expensive shit they don't need I suppose.


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## Leave_Fargut (Nov 15, 2021)

Sex And The City always struck me as the female power fantasy, at least in premise


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 15, 2021)

Leave_Fargut said:


> Sex And The City always struck me as the female power fantasy, at least in premise


Where would the "power" be?


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## Leave_Fargut (Nov 15, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Where would the "power" be?


Agency, both sexually and professionally, and emancipation from the traditional expectations about female behaviour/lifestyle choices


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 15, 2021)

Leave_Fargut said:


> Agency, both sexually and professionally, and emancipation from the traditional expectations about female behaviour/lifestyle choices


That's certainly a form of power that I had yet to consider.


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## Drain Todger (Nov 15, 2021)

Women in general trend more collectivist and men are more individualist, though there is quite a bit of variation between individuals. 

The male power fantasy usually envisages a man who is capable of breaking away from society and surpassing its demands, becoming totally self-sufficient, basically a nation-unto-himself. This is the classic Doc Savage archetype; he's a polymath, he knows everything, and he needs no one. 

The female power fantasy, on the other hand, usually entails the exact opposite; growing closer to society, meeting its requirements, living up to the expectations of other people, et cetera. Again, this is not universal, though. There are plenty of tomboy action heroines who resemble the former more than the latter.


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## Cool Dog (Nov 15, 2021)

If dating apps are any indication: millions of followers on social media, then marrying a billionaire to divorce-rape him+alimony until he dies


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## Help Me Move This Table (Nov 15, 2021)

Ironic fratricide via Nobel Peace Prize


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 15, 2021)

Meriasek said:


> The female power fantasy is basically summed up by teenage girl horse movies. It's that her existence and inherent awesomeness, and nothing else, have a lasting and transformative positive impact on a (sexy) man who submits to her will.
> Teenage girl horse movies/novels are blatant examples of that. It's always about a wild horse, often black, strong, and uber alpha, that is uncontrollable by anyone. Main character teen girl, preferably angsty and totally not like the others, arrives on the scene, and over time manages to befriend the dangerous stallion by her awesomeness.
> Many female power fantasies are variations on that concept, "only the main chick can tame the wild man".


Women like horses for the reasons you mentioned, but also because the presence of a large dangerous beast nearby enhances their vulnerability and therefore their attractiveness. It's like those Russian wedding and pregnancy photos with the bear that are a big thing over there.

If it were a guy (and he's not riding the horse or bear into battle) then it doesn't enhance his attractiveness because no one cares if a guy is vulnerable.


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## wyzardlizard (Nov 15, 2021)

Although most of them are pretty predictive and bland (you've read a few of them, you've read them all), I'd say modern webcomics written and geared towards the female audience actually portray pretty good examples of the female fantasy. 

A lot of male power fantasy stories I've come across usually involve the male lead getting humiliated at the beginning of the story, only to later gain enough power to beat the people who humiliated him, become the "hero", and getting all the ladies (and lolis).

Female-centric stories have a very similar dynamic, only, rather than physical or fighting prowess, the female lead gains political power and social standing to stand over her enemies, often using her wits to achieve this. Some stories (I'm partial to "I shall master this family!") build on this aspect relatively well, while others go no further than having her marry that one hot rich dude.

And yes, the romance. Rather than having a harem, I have found stories with one single male lead that starts out cold, but later becomes devoted to the female protagonist are a lot more popular than those who play around with love triangles and the such.

TL;DR: Social and political standing; monogamous relationship with a rich, hot, intelligent guy who is totally into you.


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## pursuitsnail (Nov 15, 2021)

Maybe that would be where instead of being a set piece for a man or a supporting character for him on his heroic journey, a fantasy where the women is treated as fully human and a character in her own right.  Her primary qualities in this story aren't attractiveness (to men), or vulnerability (why would a female power fantasy be about making men want to protect her?) because her existence isn't about orbiting men since this is supposed to be aimed at women.  Instead, it might focus on her agency, independence, intelligence, competence, quick thinking and planning, clever use of resources and social connections, not being bound by social norms or achieving her goals in spite of them.  

Essentially, a lot of the same stuff male power fantasies are made out of, but the woman is the main character and she doesn't exist for a male character's fulfillment.  If all the power fantasy is is 'teen' girl becomes a hot dude's wife/girl friend, then it's just the eqivalent of horny teen boy gets the girl stories.. which is just kind of.. small?  I mean, is Twilight really a female power fantasy instead of weird-ass Mormon horny chaste vampire WTF?


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## MysticLord (Nov 15, 2021)

pursuitsnail said:


> Maybe that would be where instead of being a set piece for a man or a supporting character for him on his heroic journey, a fantasy where the women is treated as fully human and a character in her own right.  Her primary qualities in this story aren't attractiveness (to men), or vulnerability (why would a female power fantasy be about making men want to protect her?) because her existence isn't about orbiting men since this is supposed to be aimed at women.  Instead, it might focus on her agency, independence, intelligence, competence, quick thinking and planning, clever use of resources and social connections, not being bound by social norms or achieving her goals in spite of them.


I remember when I thought like this, and then after having my heart broken and being socially humiliated I learned the hard way that men are not like women.

Realizing this evaporated my resentment of them. If you realize that someone isn't like you and can't be like you, then you hold them to a different (not necessarily lower) standard than yourself and other members of your group. In this case, the group is gender.

It's either realize that we're not all the same and have different systems for dealing with one another that are mutually beneficial, or try to hammer everyone into a one size fits all ruleset and make everyone miserable. I'm too old to be miserable, so I'll take the former. You're welcome to set up your own separate society where you strive for Real Equality This Time, For Real; I'll focus on actually having a life.


pursuitsnail said:


> Essentially, a lot of the same stuff male power fantasies are made out of, but the woman is the main character and she doesn't exist for a male character's fulfillment.  If all the power fantasy is is 'teen' girl becomes a hot dude's wife/girl friend, then it's just the eqivalent of horny teen boy gets the girl stories.. which is just kind of.. small?  I mean, is Twilight really a female power fantasy instead of weird-ass Mormon horny chaste vampire WTF?


Given that vampires and werewolves in Twilight are unstoppable killing machines: yes.


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## pursuitsnail (Nov 15, 2021)

Less "real equality this time" and more directing the story towards women and putting them in the center.  It's not the dude's heroic journey, it's supposed to be hers.  So the goal is to make it her story, her accomplishments, her actions that move the plot.

The vampires and werewolves in Twilight were sad things that had no existence other than to lust over Bella and be unintentionally creepy.   There's clearly something appealing in it because that shit was popular, but damned if I didn't see anything other than boring and bad.  I just don't think low quality urban fantasy romance is much of a power fantasy.  At least not any more so than a harem anime where a mediocre nothing of a guy is surrounded by hot women and girls for no conceivable reason.  Which I guess may be a question: is sex fantasy getting mixed up with power fantasy?


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 15, 2021)

pursuitsnail said:


> Maybe that would be where instead of being a set piece for a man or a supporting character for him on his heroic journey, a fantasy where the women is treated as fully human and a character in her own right.


Either you're misunderstanding the point of "power fantasy" or you're suggesting that women in reality are not treated as fully human.

I reckon it's the former. The point of "power fantasy" isn't to create compelling characters. It's to create entertaining stories that the reader can vicariously experience.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Nov 16, 2021)

The Male Power Fantasy is a brute who becomes a 'man of action' and then either returns or makes a home to educate his young with a woman he found along the way.  Men measure themselves based on nature, and our inner dreams reflect that.  "I will change the world, and be remembered for it"

​
The Female Power Fantasy is to be a curious thing of a child that one day starts questioning everything or acting like a vivacious/mischievous little shit until she either destroys Truth in order to get her way and really hurts someone only to then devote herself to never again letting truth be pulled down and letting people be hurt, or hopefully meeting a man along the way without causing too much shit and in the child-rearing which follows as well as the adventures she's stumbled into she becomes wise.  Women measure themselves based on society, and their inner dreams reflect that.  "I will make you love me even if you know you shouldn't and it hurts you"







However modernity has ruined and distorted both into cape-shit and social-shame. As well women are just plain shit when it comes to discussing their inner feelings compared to male boisterousness because we continue to think we're awesome even if other people are too stuck up to notice while in contrast women wilt at mass shaming in the same way men become downtrodden by failure after failure.  Good men and women don't, but most do.  So women have not really put much information out for their daughters and granddaughters to build on and seem lesser socially for it.  Hopefully one civilization at some point comes up with short-hand for a woman's inner dreams like Brute, Hero, Man of action, Leader, and Spiritual Guide do for men.


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## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

pursuitsnail said:


> Less "real equality this time" and more directing the story towards women and putting them in the center.  It's not the dude's heroic journey, it's supposed to be hers.  So the goal is to make it her story, her accomplishments, her actions that move the plot.
> 
> The vampires and werewolves in Twilight were sad things that had no existence other than to lust over Bella and be unintentionally creepy.   There's clearly something appealing in it because that shit was popular, but damned if I didn't see anything other than boring and bad.  I just don't think low quality urban fantasy romance is much of a power fantasy.  At least not any more so than a harem anime where a mediocre nothing of a guy is surrounded by hot women and girls for no conceivable reason.  Which I guess may be a question: is sex fantasy getting mixed up with power fantasy?


If you don't mind me asking, are you a woman? Do you have any real life experience in sexual relationships with women? Please note that by "woman" and "women" I mean the old legacy models, not our brave and stunning new trans nu-women.


----------



## madethistocomment (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Women like horses for the reasons you mentioned, but also because the presence of a large dangerous beast nearby enhances their vulnerability and therefore their attractiveness. It's like those Russian wedding and pregnancy photos with the bear that are a big thing over there.
> 
> If it were a guy (and he's not riding the horse or bear into battle) then it doesn't enhance his attractiveness because no one cares if a guy is vulnerable.


I like horses because they're cool, fast, and have personalities like overgrown, weird looking dogs. Not because they make me look ~weak and vulnerable~ and therefore attractive, lmfao. There is an element of "taming the beast" in it, in that I can get a skittish but powerful creature to trust me and see me as a friend. It's a sense of accomplishment more than anything, and the excitement that comes with bonding with another creature. 

Being on one is a freeing feeling because I am now taller than everyone around me (who isn't also on a horse) and I have a lot more freedom of movement with the added speed. Being taller and faster than everyone around you is something that everyone enjoys, especially when you look cool as fuck while riding a beautiful horse. 

I beg of you, _actually talk _to real women instead of coming up with a caricature in your head and being convinced that that's exactly what all of us are like.


----------



## scallion (Nov 16, 2021)

She must be loved and adored by all of her peers, yet also unique and different; nobody can have negative thoughts about her, and if they do it's because they are evil and are actually just jealous.


----------



## Johan Schmidt (Nov 16, 2021)

Being my wife, _obviously_.


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

Speaking as a woman, the ultimate female power fantasy from my perspective is Bayonetta. Confident, kicks ass, woman of action, femdom as fuck, god-like powers, beats up monsters over 10x her size like they're made of paper and looks good while doing it.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

madethistocomment said:


> I like horses because they're cool, fast, and have personalities like overgrown, weird looking dogs. Not because they make me look ~weak and vulnerable~ and therefore attractive, lmfao. There is an element of "taming the beast" in it, in that I can get a skittish but powerful creature to trust me and see me as a friend. It's a sense of accomplishment more than anything, and the excitement that comes with bonding with another creature.
> 
> Being on one is a freeing feeling because I am now taller than everyone around me (who isn't also on a horse) and I have a lot more freedom of movement with the added speed. Being taller and faster than everyone around you is something that everyone enjoys, especially when you look cool as fuck while riding a beautiful horse.
> 
> I beg of you, _actually talk _to real women instead of coming up with a caricature in your head and being convinced that that's exactly what all of us are like.


I'm sure that the demographic whose survival for thousands of years was enhanced and in some cases solely determined by how attractive they were, and which spends a good percentage of their income on beauty products, clothing, and (when they can) surgery to enhance their attractiveness can be relied on to be objective in this matter.


----------



## madethistocomment (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> I'm sure that the demographic whose survival for thousands of years was enhanced and in some cases solely determined by how attractive they were, and which spends a good percentage of their income on beauty products, clothing, and (when they can) surgery to enhance their attractiveness can be relied on to be objective in this matter.


Just as I am sure that a man who is clearly basing his preconceptions off of stereotypes of women instead of getting their actual thoughts and feelings on the matter is also being objective and truthful in all regards.

Seriously. I have never once heard "It makes me looks weak and vulnerable and sexy teehee~" as a reason from other women as to why they got into horses. It's always something along the lines of "hee hee big weird dog go neigh", "Horses are cool as fuck", "Riding is relaxing and clears my head", "They're loyal friends", or "Gotta go fast". Your reasoning is the most stereotypical "Men writing women" answer possible, dude.


----------



## Sarcastic sockpuppet (Nov 16, 2021)

You are too restrictive in what you consider a power fantasy. Power fantasies are not just being Batman: tall dark, handsome, rich, ass-kicking and moppey.

Harry Potter is a power fantasy: you are a scrawny orphan who's life suck for about 10 pages and then you enter a magical elite, discover you are super rich and special, become a genius at wizard-football and kick the bad guy's ass every June for 7 years.

 Being the dweeby, geeky male lead of a harem manga is a power fantasy: you are not the most talented or manly guy around but tones of hot babes can't help falling for you and usually you find something you are good at and people end up relying on you.

Sailor Moon and magical girls stories are power fantasies for girls: magical powers. Cool mission. World-saving.
The Girl with the Dragon tattoo is a power fantasy for women and men: you can be the badass hacker chick who gets revenge on her rapist/various others or the smooth reporter who has integrity, gets revenge on his ennemy as well and ends up fucking the badass hacker chick as well as several others women. Or you can identify with both.
All mainstream video-games : Zelda, Tomb Raider, God of War, The Sims (you litteraly control those sims's life), whatever: power fantasies.

In short: There isn't One "female power fantasy" and One "male power fantasy". There is many different powers fantasies that appeal to all genders. Some appeal more to men, some to women, some more to hetero people, some to gay people.

And i am not starting with racial-based power fantasies but there's probably a lot to say about that. There's the "white saviors" kind of stories, but also the mirror to then, whch you can expect to see more of: the start of Crazy Rich Asians, when Michelle Yeoh gets back at the racist employees of the hotel by buying the whole thing and becoming their new boss, is a power fantasies for non-whites (and it's cringy as fuck, IMO but hey, so are many power fantasises)


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

Autism Supreme said:


> You are too restrictive in what you consider a power fantasy. Power fantasies are not just being Batman: tall dark, handsome, rich, ass-kicking and moppey.
> 
> Harry Potter is a power fantasy: you are a scrawny orphan who's life suck for about 10 pages and then you enter a magical elite, discover you are super rich and special, become a genius at wizard-football and kick the bad guy's ass every June for 7 years.
> 
> ...


Ultimately, the power fantasy boils down to one thing regardless of male/female/black/white/asian/cat-dog alien hybrid/etc...: POWER. Which is the ability to be powerful in some kind of form, usually in the form of getting revenge on those that wronged you/wronged loved ones/innocent people or to wield power in some other way. Doom Slayer (despite his horrific PTSD as seen in a flashback from Doom: Eternal) is a power fantasy, he's a 6'0+ tall alpha gigachad that's built like a stone wall who can singlehandedly defeat waves upon waves of demonic armies for centuries and the only person whom demons fear. If that isn't a power fantasy, then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

madethistocomment said:


> Just as I am sure that a man who is clearly basing his preconceptions off of stereotypes of women instead of getting their actual thoughts and feelings on the matter is also being objective and truthful in all regards.
> 
> Seriously. I have never once heard "It makes me looks weak and vulnerable and sexy teehee~" as a reason from other women as to why they got into horses. It's always something along the lines of "hee hee big weird dog go neigh", "Horses are cool as fuck", "Riding is relaxing and clears my head", "They're loyal friends", or "Gotta go fast". Your reasoning is the most stereotypical "Men writing women" answer possible, dude.


Thoughts and feelings have nothing on instincts, drives, and biological incentives. The latter are hardwired into us at the genetic level and can't be changed.

If you believe that your thoughts and feelings as a human being override your biology as a woman, then you should also believe that a troons thoughts and feelings override his biology; the logic is the same. You can't have transfeminism without first having feminism. They differ only in degree.


----------



## Sweetpeaa (Nov 16, 2021)

And this time only men pay the poll tax


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Thoughts and feelings have nothing on instincts, drives, and biological incentives. The latter are hardwired into us at the genetic level and can't be changed.
> 
> If you believe that your thoughts and feelings as a human being override your biology as a woman, then you should also believe that a troons thoughts and feelings override his biology; the logic is the same. You can't have transfeminism without first having feminism. They differ only in degree.


Ones a man that wants to creep into lady's bathrooms in a cheap wig and dress, the other's a woman. Two, according to that logic, troons wouldn't be troons because their biological incentives are stronger than their thoughts and feelings.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 16, 2021)

madethistocomment said:


> I beg of you, _actually talk _to real women instead of coming up with a caricature in your head and being convinced that that's exactly what all of us are like.


(in response to obvious generalizing) "Women aren't like that! _I'm_ not like that!"

I would actually like to be wrong about this being a common fixture in woman's reasoning despite how seemingly often I see it from them, because I haven't a basis for why it would be common vis-a-vis men. Shoot, a chunk of the women (nearly all of them?) that have answered here haven't been answering the prompt-- they've been answering "what is _your_ female power fantasy" without even acknowledging that the prompt is asking for a proposed generalization.

You being an exception to a generalization isn't an argument against its veracity. "I haven't heard anything about that!" is, in and of itself, only a testament to ignorance-- whether that ignorance has to do with such a thing not existing or your lack of experience is a separate matter. Not only that, but we're having a discussion that constantly dips into the fundamental and outright primal inclinations of men and women. Inclinations that aren't often spoken, or even fully understood at a glance. "I've heard nobody say this!" isn't a proper refutation, versus "there's nothing about the demonstrably common inclinations of women, even at their most atomized, that could yield that kind of yearning".


----------



## Save Goober (Nov 16, 2021)

madethistocomment said:


> Just as I am sure that a man who is clearly basing his preconceptions off of stereotypes of women instead of getting their actual thoughts and feelings on the matter is also being objective and truthful in all regards.
> 
> Seriously. I have never once heard "It makes me looks weak and vulnerable and sexy teehee~" as a reason from other women as to why they got into horses. It's always something along the lines of "hee hee big weird dog go neigh", "Horses are cool as fuck", "Riding is relaxing and clears my head", "They're loyal friends", or "Gotta go fast". Your reasoning is the most stereotypical "Men writing women" answer possible, dude.


The horse stuff also starts with really young girls - like third and fourth grade. Is this guy really suggesting _little girls_ love horses because it makes them look more sexually attractive to men?


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

THOTHunterAlice said:


> Ones a man that wants to creep into lady's bathrooms in a cheap wig and dress, the other's a woman. Two, according to that logic, troons wouldn't be troons because their biological incentives are stronger than their thoughts and feelings.


She's doing the "I'm not like other girls" thing and demanding that everyone in society play along with her power fantasy of being a stronk womyn who don't need no man. Both are the results of a sort of gnostic philosophy that denies the reality of biology, or perhaps it's simpler and they're just immune to dialectic by virtue of being female brained. If it's the latter, arguing with them is futile except as a means with which to hassle women when one is bored.



Zero Day Defense said:


> (in response to obvious generalizing) "Women aren't like that! _I'm_ not like that!"
> 
> I would actually like to be wrong about this being a common fixture in woman's reasoning despite how seemingly often I see it from them, because I haven't a basis for why it would be common vis-a-vis men. Shoot, a chunk of the women (nearly all of them?) that have answered here haven't been answering the prompt-- they've been answering "what is _your_ female power fantasy" without even acknowledging that the prompt is asking for a proposed generalization.
> 
> You being an exception to a generalization isn't an argument against its veracity. "I haven't heard anything about that!" is, in and of itself, only a testament to ignorance-- whether that ignorance has to do with such a thing not existing or your lack of experience is a separate matter. Not only that, but we're having a discussion that constantly dips into the fundamental and outright primal inclinations of men and women. Inclinations that aren't often spoken, or even fully understood at a glance. "I've heard nobody say this!" isn't a proper refutation, versus "there's nothing about the demonstrably common inclinations of women, even at their most atomized, that could yield that kind of yearning".


I turn the page and find you making my argument for me!

If I were more deranged than tired of women I would make a video compilation of women saying they're not like other girls, while they pout and posture for male attention.



Save Goober said:


> The horse stuff also starts with really young girls - like third and fourth grade. Is this guy really suggesting _little girls_ love horses because it makes them look more sexually attractive to men?


You can tell a woman is getting emotional because she starts suggesting you're a pedophile.

Little girls like Frozen because they all want to be the pretty pale blonde princess. It's a self insert, just like He-Man and Power Rangers were self-inserts for 6 year old MysticLord (which frustrated my parents to no end, as they had to deal with me "HI-YAAH!"-ing teddy bears, inanimate objects, and neighbor kids until I faceplanted off a wheeled footstool and broke my nose). Besides, the image of horses that little girls are fed and the reality of a large dangerous animal that smells like manure and will kick your face in if you approach it from the wrong direction or it just feels like it that day is very different.

Here are the Russian wedding/pregnancy photos featuring a bear I think I mentioned earlier.


Spoiler











Does it seem like these women just really like bears and are interested in them as living creatures? Or do they see them as fashion accessories?

I'm not saying that a woman can't like a horse as a horse, or value it as a companion and friend (to the degree that you can be a friend with something that is totally dependent on you to survive). Instead I'm saying that the element of "this dangerous thing makes me look more girly" is a factor.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

for men to stop making dumb threads like these tbh


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> She's doing the "I'm not like other girls" thing and demanding that everyone in society play along with her power fantasy of being a stronk womyn who don't need no man. Both are the results of a sort of gnostic philosophy that denies the reality of biology, or perhaps it's simpler and they're just immune to dialectic by virtue of being female brained. If it's the latter, arguing with them is futile except as a means with which to hassle women when one is bored.
> 
> 
> I turn the page and find you making my argument for me!
> ...


Nigga, have you even interacted with a woman face-to-face? By saying that a woman who doesn't want to be a vulnerable sit on her ass being taken care of by a white knight is being "not like the other girls" is sexist as shit because guess fucking what? women are more than biologically driven machines, you incel.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

THOTHunterAlice said:


> Nigga, have you even interacted with a woman face-to-face? By saying that a woman _*who doesn't want to be a vulnerable sit on her ass being taken care of by a white knight is being "not like the other girls"*_ is sexist as shit because guess fucking what? women are more than biologically driven machines, you incel.


I literally cannot understand what the bolded and italicized portion means.

I never said that women are just biologically driven machines, only that biological drives are a factor in our decisions and often a big one.

I'm sure that chimping out and calling me names is a sure sign that you're not getting emotional, woman.


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> *retard blabbering*


Here's an idea: talk to a woman face-to-face and you'll be shocked how many don't want to be a lazy bimbo!


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

THOTHunterAlice said:


> Here's an idea: talk to a woman face-to-face and you'll be shocked how many don't want to be a lazy bimbo!


I hope not, I need my tendies!


----------



## Save Goober (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> for men to stop making dumb threads like these tbh


I miss the incel forum. We used to laugh at this sort of thing. The horse/bear shit is gold


----------



## JaneThough (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Thoughts and feelings have nothing on instincts, drives, and biological incentives. The latter are hardwired into us at the genetic level and can't be changed.
> 
> If you believe that your thoughts and feelings as a human being override your biology as a woman, then you should also believe that a troons thoughts and feelings override his biology; the logic is the same. You can't have transfeminism without first having feminism. They differ only in degree.


JFC what the fuck are you that your instinct leads you to be such an insufferable cunt? I would implore you to actually spend time with a woman, but I don't hate any woman enough to inflict you on her.


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

JaneThough said:


> JFC what the fuck are you that your instinct leads you to be such an insufferable cunt? I would implore you to actually spend time with a woman, but I don't hate any woman enough to inflict you on her.


Mommy issues. It's always mommy/sister/female authority issues.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

If it weren't so easy and funny to make women angry then I wouldn't do it. Maybe you should remember you're on the Deep Thoughts board, in a section literally named "Autistic Thunderdome" before you make emotional posts. I know how hard it is to deal with ideas that challenge your worldview when everything you see is subjective, but do at least try!


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## Bunny Tracks (Nov 16, 2021)

*Woman: *We just like horses because they're neat.

*Man:* *giant autistic post about why that opinion doesn't matter because it doesn't represent all women, and yet how theirs, a man's, somehow does*


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> If it weren't so easy and funny to make women angry then I wouldn't do it. Maybe you should remember you're on the Deep Thoughts board, in a section literally named "Autistic Thunderdome" before you make emotional posts. I know how hard it is to deal with ideas that challenge your worldview when everything you see is subjective, but do at least try!


This whole post and by extension, you, reeks of this.





seethe harder, faggot, it's been a while since i've been entertained.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> *Woman: *We just like horses because they're neat.
> 
> *Man:* *giant autistic post about why that opinion doesn't matter because they don't represent all women, and yet how theirs, a man's, somehow does*


You say this as if there aren't tens of thousands of books written by feminists about why everything men do is because men are envious of women, men are inferior to women, and so on.



THOTHunterAlice said:


> This whole post and by extension, you, reeks of this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sure that's how you feel I am reacting, and therefore it is totally real to you.


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> *more autistic screeching*


cope harder faggot. stacey still isn't gonna touch your withered micro-dick.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> *Woman: *We just like horses because they're neat.
> 
> *Man:* *giant autistic post about why that opinion doesn't matter because they don't represent all women, and yet how theirs, a man's, somehow does*


Most girls I knew in Middle School who rode horses either because they were sponsored by a 4H club or were rich generally did it when they started getting breasts at like 11, it's odd to say, but I really liked a girl who was big into horses. I have the summer diary of my childhood, and god my mom roasted when I dug that up during Covid. Later on, she had a FaceBook post about her first orgasm was riding a horse in Middle School. I assumed it was just a really expensive sextoy to dab on the other chicks who had to use the sharp corners of desks or the musty smelling Ken Doll. Most guys I knew who rode horses complained about not getting the right saddle and their ass and thighs hurting, except for one and he literally died choking on cock.

So from what I've gleaned in the thread, horses are like big dogs. If horse equals dog, then white woman fucks horses.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 16, 2021)

THOTHunterAlice said:


> cope harder faggot. stacey still isn't gonna touch your withered micro-dick.


Nobody cares that you don't value men that aren't sexually validated by other women. It has nothing to do with anything here, and is literally the bottom of the barrel of insults.

Like, you can't play "u mad" and then say _that._

it's not even inventive...


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> Most girls I knew in Middle School who rode horses either because they were sponsored by a 4H club or were rich generally did it when they started getting breasts at like 11, it's odd to say, but I really liked a girl who was big into horses. I have the summer diary of my childhood, and god my mom roasted when I dug that up during Covid. Later on, she had a FaceBook post about her first orgasm was riding a horse in Middle School. I assumed it was just a really expensive sextoy to dab on the other chicks who had to use the sharp corners of desks or the musty smelling Ken Doll. Most guys I knew who rode horses complained about not getting the right saddle and their ass and thighs hurting, except for one and he literally died choking on cock.
> 
> So from what I've gleaned in the thread, horses are like big dogs. If horse equals dog, then white woman fucks horses.


Well, there's something I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing.

I dated a horse/farm girl when I was in college, and she was my first experience with women who are into bondage and sadism. She had to explain to me that what she wanted me to do, which took a solid 15 minutes for me to understand. I'm not sure I wanna keep discussing this lol.

She works as a veterinarians assistant and pharmacist now, and she's engaged to a veterinarian.


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## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> Most girls I knew in Middle School who rode horses either because they were sponsored by a 4H club or were rich generally did it when they started getting breasts at like 11, it's odd to say, but I really liked a girl who was big into horses. I have the summer diary of my childhood, and god my mom roasted when I dug that up during Covid. Later on, she had a FaceBook post about her first orgasm was riding a horse in Middle School. I assumed it was just a really expensive sextoy to dab on the other chicks who had to use the sharp corners of desks or the musty smelling Ken Doll. Most guys I knew who rode horses complained about not getting the right saddle and their ass and thighs hurting, except for one and he literally died choking on cock.
> 
> So from what I've gleaned in the thread, horses are like big dogs. If horse equals dog, then white woman fucks horses.


Where's the islamic content rating when you need it the most?


----------



## Mal0 (Nov 16, 2021)

> Let me tell women what they actually like then get assmad when they disagree


shiggy


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## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

Mal0 said:


> shiggy


How is a man to find a boyfriend-free girl if he doesn't even know what they like?! They seem to like rape so maybe Barb liked it.


----------



## The Husbando Collector (Nov 16, 2021)

Mal0 said:


> shiggy


It's almost as if they can't believe that someone from a group is speaking from being part of that group!

ETA: and where's the deviant rating when you need it?


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Nobody cares that you don't value men that aren't sexually validated by other women. It has nothing to do with anything here, and is literally the bottom of the barrel of insults.
> 
> Like, you can't play "u mad" and then say _that._
> 
> it's not even inventive...


if that were true then incels wouldn't be such whiny bitches.


MysticLord said:


> You say this as if there aren't tens of thousands of books written by feminists about why everything men do is because men are envious of women, men are inferior to women, and so on.


i can show you thousands of written works by men who blame women for every societal ill ever.


----------



## Mal0 (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> i can show you thousands of written works by men who blame women for every societal ill ever.


Start with the bible, that one is my favorite!


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> if that were true then incels wouldn't be such whiny bitches.


Incel is the go-to insult for women that believe they have nothing to offer men except sex.


snailslime said:


> i can show you thousands of written works by men who blame women for every societal ill ever.


It takes two to tango.


Mal0 said:


> Start with the bible, that one is my favorite!


Wrong. Adam is to blame for the Fall because he listened to a woman instead of God.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> i can show you thousands of written works by men who blame women for every societal ill ever.


Assemblywomen isn't wrong at all. You think uggos and fatties wouldn't want to have communal sloppy seconds if it meant they could milk Chad for his seed?


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Incel is the go-to insult for women that believe they have nothing to offer men except sex.


you can try to deny the fact that a lot of men who say what you say are incels, but it's still true.



MysticLord said:


> It takes two to tango.


elaborate? 



MysticLord said:


> Wrong. Adam is to blame for the Fall because he listened to a woman instead of God.


you probably don't even read the Bible lol.




BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> Assemblywomen isn't wrong at all. You think uggos and fatties wouldn't want to have communal sloppy seconds if it meant they could milk Chad for his seed?


this has nothing to do with what i said. congrats on showing your inceldom, virgin.


----------



## Dyn (Nov 16, 2021)

Women like horses because horses are fucking cool how is this even a discussion?



Penis Drager said:


> Male power fantasy: "I can do anything and don't need nobody to do it for me!"
> Female power fantasy: "I don't have to do anything because everyone else does it for me!"


Thread should have ended here, tbh. The male power fantasy does whatever he wants to whoever he wants, the female power fantasy has the rest of the world fawn over how amazing she is for no reason. That's the only real difference.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

Dyn said:


> Women like horses because horses are fucking cool how is this even a discussion?


I'm just throwing water on an oil fire. Women tend to overact when pressured.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 16, 2021)

I would find it pretty cool if a woman here could propose a foundation of the female power fantasy and/or common themes therein, in the same way men have been freely doing so for male and female power fantasies alike. Surely, conversations predicated on such would be more fruitful, as opposed to inadequate refutations of such propositions with "*I've* never heard any woman say that! *I* don't have those inclinations! This is *MY *power fantasy!" followed by a showing of their asses and a devolution into "lol incel" apropos of nothing because of an unnecessary sex fixation.



snailslime said:


> words


Stick to giving out trash cans, instead of making trash can worthy comments.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

i'm just going to leave these crime statistics here because i know thunderdomers love them


----------



## Dyn (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I would find it pretty cool if a woman here could propose a foundation of the female power fantasy and/or common themes therein, in the same way men have been freely doing so for male and female power fantasies alike.


Why? It's already an established trope called "Mary Sue".


----------



## Troonologist PhD (Nov 16, 2021)

The only _good_ female power fantasy I've ever seen or read is _Aliens_. _Tomb Raider _was good but aside from Lara the MC it's identical to a male power fantasy.

Idk about most female _power_ fantasies but the signature womanchild escapist fantasy is Sex in the City. It highlights everything wrong with modern women and everything modern feminists want and paints it as a positive. Sex and the City and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I would find it pretty cool if a woman here could propose a foundation of the female power fantasy and/or common themes therein, in the same way men have been freely doing so for male and female power fantasies alike. Surely, conversations predicated on such would be more fruitful, as opposed to inadequate refutations of such propositions with "*I've* never heard any woman say that! *I* don't have those inclinations! This is *MY *power fantasy!" followed by a showing of their asses and a devolution into "lol incel" apropos of nothing because of an unnecessary sex fixation.
> 
> 
> Stick to giving out trash cans, instead of making trash can worthy comments.


Why do you always write like you just ate a thesaurus?


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> you can try to deny the fact that a lot of men who say what you say are incels, but it's still true.


Incels say a dumbed down version of what I say because they're frustrated and unclear, and it's usually said in a very bitter manner because they loathe women. I say it because it's the truth and the way in which I say it is somewhat neutral as these things go.

I don't think it's a bad thing that women are the way they are, because if they were more like men then they would be terrible mothers and unmarriageable hags. I love them how they are, warts and all, and sometimes I express that by directing my male-minded thinking at them and watching them freak out.


snailslime said:


> elaborate?


I believe that men are more to blame for our current societal ills because men have more agency than women in things outside of the family, socializing, and child-rearing. If we weren't manipulated into, say, WW1 by drunken and dissolute bureaucrats then several tens of million of patriotic, masculine, and competent men would have led our nations through the 20th century, and all the societal-wide betrayal of social obligations among all groups would not have occurred.

Blaming women for our problems ignores that they treat you like shit as a test, and that being continually treated like shit by women is a sign of either weakness on your part of steadily increasing danger and uncertainty throughout society. She tests you because she wants a strong man to protect her, and if you fail it's because you're weak or society is getting worse and she can't tolerate it.

Unruly women are easily tamed if men collectively are not weak, and weak men can only reproduce in a society with hyper-feminine women (see: Asia). The blame ultimately falls on men for all these problems because women just aren't made to deal with the things they have to tolerate these days, and no one but men can fix this.

The solution to inceldom is to become powerful.


snailslime said:


> you probably don't even read the Bible lol.


I don't read as much as I should, for sure. But my favorite books is Proverbs.


snailslime said:


> this has nothing to do with what i said. congrats on showing your inceldom, virgin.


He could have worded it better.


----------



## Dyn (Nov 16, 2021)

Troonologist PhD said:


> The only _good_ female power fantasy I've ever seen or read is _Aliens_. _Tomb Raider _was good but aside from Lara the MC it's identical to a male power fantasy.


I don't think Aliens is a power fantasy, the whole Tigress and Her Cubs shit is more of a virtuous archetype. Women might want to think they'd behave like that but nobody really wants to think about being put in that position. Ripley's just a regular action hero, and Lara Croft is a female power fantasy written by men. 

Power fantasies in general though are cringe as fuck unless you're sucked into fantasising with them, regardless of gender.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I would find it pretty cool if a woman here could propose a foundation of the female power fantasy and/or common themes therein, in the same way men have been freely doing so for male and female power fantasies alike. Surely, conversations predicated on such would be more fruitful, as opposed to inadequate refutations of such propositions with "*I've* never heard any woman say that! *I* don't have those inclinations! This is *MY *power fantasy!" followed by a showing of their asses and a devolution into "lol incel" apropos of nothing because of an unnecessary sex fixation.
> 
> 
> Stick to giving out trash cans, instead of making trash can worthy comments.


normal people don't have a weird fixation with gendered "power fantasies"


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> i'm just going to leave these crime statistics here because i know thunderdomers love them
> View attachment 2724228


women aren't even good at committing crime or getting convicted, smdh



Dyn said:


> Why? It's already an established trope called "Mary Sue".


Funny you mention that.

I've argued for a long time that the "Mary Sue" accusation is commonly misapplied because said accusations get hung up on context-specific details, and aren't able to answer for why what allegedly makes one character a Mary Sue wouldn't make another character such.

The "Mary Sue" phenomenon is fundamentally one of the protagonist failing to generate conflict _at all_. It's from this failure to generate conflict that you get the oft-cited symptoms: everyone likes them, new skills necessary for plot advancement come easy to them, anyone who disagrees with them is incorrigibly evil, etc. It _is_ possible to have conflict in a power fantasy, because the only major criteria for one is that is the protagonist is particularly "powerful" and the plot showcases said power.

tl;dr "all Mary Sue fics are power fantasies, but not all power fantasies are Mary Sue fics".



Bunny Tracks said:


> Why do you always write like you just ate a thesaurus?


Because I know it gets under your skin, specifically.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> women aren't even good at committing crime or getting convicted, smdh
> 
> 
> Funny you mention that.
> ...


so, have you ever had a girlfriend

& how did she dump you?


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

Dyn said:


> I don't think Aliens is a power fantasy, the whole Tigress and Her Cubs shit is more of a virtuous archetype. Women might want to think they'd behave like that but nobody really wants to think about being put in that position. Ripley's just a regular action hero, and Lara Croft is a female power fantasy written by men.
> 
> Power fantasies in general though are cringe as fuck unless you're sucked into fantasising with them, regardless of gender.


I agree on Ripley, but I think power fantasies, if they are played straight are fine or if you actually create stipulations and conflict from 'If you actually had this power, ability, intelligence, wealth where would your ethos be'. 

Bayonetta is literally some Jap woman making her ideal self when told by the director to go wild. Sexy and confident, it's not trying to be anything else than an action game character. Guys can jerk off to Bayonetta and some women will probably self-insert a bit. 

I guess on the opposite side, the chick from Gone Girl? She's a dark power fantasy I guess, I didn't find the chick who played the Gone Girl hot so I watched a John Carpenter Movie instead.


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> so, have you ever had a girlfriend
> 
> & how did she dump you?


He mentioned having one at one point, but that they broke up. 

Can't imagine why.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> I agree on Ripley, but I think power fantasies, if they are played straight are fine or if you actually create stipulations and conflict from 'If you actually had this power, ability, intelligence, wealth where would your ethos be'.
> 
> Bayonetta is literally some Jap woman making her ideal self when told by the director to go wild. Sexy and confident, it's not trying to be anything else than an action game character. Guys can jerk off to Bayonetta and some women will probably self-insert a bit.
> 
> I guess on the opposite side, the chick from Gone Girl? She's a dark power fantasy I guess, I didn't find the chick who played the Gone Girl hot so I watched a John Carpenter Movie instead.


Categorizing female protagonists based on their role in a story and comparing/contrasting them with males in similar roles might make for an interesting film analysis spergout thread.

The Alien in the first movie is unique in that it's an androgynous antagonist - it has characteristics of male and female. That and the rape anxiety it directs towards men make it a particularly loathsome and compelling enemy. I think women feel the same way about troons that men feel about the xenomorph. I've wondered if the choice of a female protagonist was made because the creature isn't male or female?


----------



## Dyn (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> I've wondered if the choice of a female protagonist was made because the creature isn't male or female?


It was a horror movie staple then to have a 'last girl' survive at the end.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Categorizing female protagonists based on their role in a story and comparing/contrasting them with males in similar roles might make for an interesting film analysis spergout thread.
> 
> The Alien in the first movie is unique in that it's an androgynous antagonist - it has characteristics of male and female. That and the rape anxiety it directs towards men make it a particularly loathsome and compelling enemy. I think women feel the same way about troons that men feel about the xenomorph. I've wondered if the choice of a female protagonist was made because the creature isn't male or female?


I mean this is more literature or any media. Movies and film are the most widespread. I can't really say Tankgirl is a woman's power fantasy. 

Also Alien had the first troon character, too.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 16, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> I mean this is more literature or any media. Movies and film are the most widespread. I can't really say Tankgirl is a woman's power fantasy.
> 
> Also Alien had the first troon character, too.


There was a troon in Alien? The android?


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 16, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> He mentioned having one at one point, but that they broke up.
> 
> Can't imagine why.


You have a perverse fixation with my sex and love life. Well beyond the point of insult fodder.

Irrelevance aside, a normal person would let this kind of question be answered by the one to whom it was posed, especially since they'd be able to properly answer it.

They certainly wouldn't step up to answer these kinds of questions on multiple occasions.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> There was a troon in Alien? The android?


The other chick on the ship. Ridley Scott added it at the start of Alien 2, it turns out she was a MtF at the beginning when it goes over the crew deaths. It's not like a ' Samus is Trans' thing, it's official.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You have a perverse fixation with my sex and love life. Well beyond the point of insult fodder.
> 
> Irrelevance aside, a normal person would let this kind of question be answered by the one to whom it was posed, especially since they'd be able to properly answer it.


answer my question then. lol


----------



## Pokemonquistador2 (Nov 16, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> There was a troon in Alien? The android?


It was Lambert- she was born a male, but then the Company trooned her without her or her parent's consent.  It's info in her dossier file that appears briefly in _Aliens._

One of the more iconic female power fantasies is Scarlett from _Gone With the Wind_. She starts out rich and widely admired, gets the attention of Alpha Male Rhett Butler, manages to pull herself out of post-war poverty due to her own ruthlessness and determination, and then marries the Alpha Male on equal terms. Of course, GWTW's author (Margaret Mitchell,) meant for Scarlett to be a deconstruction of sorts - to show how destructive a woman with great power but little in the way of a conscience could be. Many female fans of the book/movie tend to ignore this and like to imagine themselves as Belle of the Ball types, beloved by many, despite being a Mean Girl Rich Bitch stereotype. 


I would argue that one of the most popular _male_ power fantasies in the Current Year is to be a powerful kick-ass girl like Korra from the _Legend of Korra_. Pretty, intelligent, and having superpowers/good fighting skill, but also having a bad attitude and protagonist-centered morality. This, she gets a pass for, because she's the hero AND a woman (who deserves to have Mary Sue powers because of oppresshun.) Men like to write these characters a lot, not just because they want to appeal to the women around them, but because they secretly wish they could have the admiration and moral authority that comes with being high on the Oppressive Stack.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 16, 2021)

snailslime said:


> answer my question then. lol


Sure.

First, though: what does it have to do with what you responded to? That would help me answer your question the best I can.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 16, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Sure.
> 
> First, though: what does it have to do with what you responded to? That would help me answer your question the best I can.


because i have a perverse fixation with your sex life

now please tell me


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 17, 2021)

Pokemonquistador2 said:


> It was Lambert- she was born a male, but then the Company trooned her without her or her parent's consent.  It's info in her dossier file that appears briefly in _Aliens._


I never know that. Impressive work, though I wonder how Weyland-Yutani learned how to do that.


Pokemonquistador2 said:


> I would argue that one of the most popular _male_ power fantasies in the Current Year is to be a powerful kick-ass girl like Korra from the _Legend of Korra_. Pretty, intelligent, and having superpowers/good fighting skill, but also having a bad attitude and protagonist-centered morality. This, she gets a pass for, because she's the hero AND a woman (who deserves to have Mary Sue powers because of oppresshun.) Men like to write these characters a lot, not just because they want to appeal to the women around them, but because they secretly wish they could have the admiration and moral authority that comes with being high on the Oppressive Stack.


Power Girls are usually written by male nerds as their fantasy of what they would do if they were women. I've never seen one that actually appeals to women. They're dudes with tits attached and a vagina drilled in - most of the time the artwork is either fetish-bait or literally a dude with tits (male jawline, wide shoulders, abs).

I'm not a fan of LOTR, but Galadriel when she is tripping thinking about the One Ring is a good example of the darker end of female power fantasies.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 17, 2021)

snailslime said:


> because i have a perverse fixation with your sex life


I liked the you that didn't speak and just threw trash cans and hats around like it was nobody's business. It was a special, stand-out way of contributing.

This conversation feels like a deflated balloon. You can go look around for accounts of some of the relationships I've had if you're that interested-- I'm not that secretive about them because they're not particularly embarrassing for me. I find conversations where people try to leverage what I share of my personal life against me, apropos of nothing, to be really boring.

You've become really boring.


Pokemonquistador2 said:


> I would argue that one of the most popular _male_ power fantasies in the Current Year is to be a powerful kick-ass girl like Korra from the _Legend of Korra_. Pretty, intelligent, and having superpowers/good fighting skill, but also having a bad attitude and protagonist-centered morality. This, she gets a pass for, because she's the hero AND a woman (who deserves to have Mary Sue powers because of oppresshun.) Men like to write these characters a lot, not just because they want to appeal to the women around them, but because they secretly wish they could have the admiration and moral authority that comes with being high on the Oppressive Stack.


You and @MysticLord bring up an interesting point that I'm not sure I articulated here even though I thought it: you can have a male power fantasy involving a female (and perhaps it works vice versa, I haven't thought too much about that). That said, I'm not sure if Korra is a great example of this. I take a male power fantasy with a female protagonist to not differ in any regard from a standard male power fantasy; this is to the extent that, for example, even the woman's relationships would have to be sapphic-- and that's if there's any intimate relationship focus to begin with. In contrast, Korra's relationships and conflicts are markedly feminine when they remind of sex at all. She's capable of very feminine reactions and interactions, and her infatuations are also carried out in a feminine way.

I can't imagine men trying to live vicariously through that, unless they're already on the simp-to-troon pipeline and they're under the delusion that they can become the femboy tomboy gf dammit i puked a little typing that.


----------



## Cool Dog (Nov 17, 2021)

Pokemonquistador2 said:


> It was Lambert- she was born a male, but then the Company trooned her without her or her parent's consent.  It's info in her dossier file that appears briefly in _Aliens._


In the 80s the idea of being a troon was so horrible only a future soulless megacorporation was able to do it


Pokemonquistador2 said:


> I would argue that one of the most popular _male_ power fantasies in the Current Year is to be a powerful kick-ass girl like Korra from the _Legend of Korra_.


I only know korra existed because of the insane amounts of porn of her. Avatar was always a shit gayass knockoff anime anyway


Pokemonquistador2 said:


> Men like to write these characters a lot, not just because they want to appeal to the women around them, but because they secretly wish they could have the admiration and moral authority that comes with being high on the Oppressive Stack.


Agreed, same reason they want to write black characters, they secretely hate living under the opression they themselves created and still support


----------



## snailslime (Nov 17, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I liked the you that didn't speak and just threw trash cans and hats around like it was nobody's business. It was a special, stand-out way of contributing.
> 
> This conversation feels like a deflated balloon. You can go look around for accounts of some of the relationships I've had if you're that interested-- I'm not that secretive about them because they're not particularly embarrassing for me. I find conversations where people try to leverage what I share of my personal life against me, apropos of nothing, to be really boring.
> 
> ...


stickers were taken away because your a&h kin could not stop bitching about them


----------



## Bloitzhole (Nov 17, 2021)

Does thread think Mulan is a male or a female power fantasy in its original incarnation (the ballad) ?

The daughter takes up the sword for the sake of her frail father, distinguishes herself among soldiers for her cunning and bravery in battle, returns to her homestead after the emperor offers her any high office or price. Instead of grabbing power when it is offered, she only asks for a well trained horse so that her return home might be swift, electing to live among and raise a family in obscurity, shirking boons, grandeur and glory - only years later do the veterans visit her homestead and find, to their surprise, that her comrade-in-arms was a female all along.


----------



## Dyn (Nov 17, 2021)

Bloitzhole said:


> Does thread think Mulan is a male or a female power fantasy in its original incarnation (the ballad) ?


Not every story about a badass hero is a power fantasy. Legendary stories like Mulan are usually more morality play or a declaration of a culture's values. A power fantasy is something you can dumbly watch while pawing at your genitals and gawping out "HURRR, THAT'D BE ME IF I WAS THERE HURRRR". 

As to Mulan specifically, her people had nomad ancestry and their enemies didn't. Venerating a probably fictional warrior-woman is a way of empowering yourself and showing you're not ashamed of the heritage your enemies are calling barbaric and uncivilised. Almost all legendary heroes address a cultural insecurity in one way or another.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 17, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You and @MysticLord bring up an interesting point that I'm not sure I articulated here even though I thought it: you can have a male power fantasy involving a female (and perhaps it works vice versa, I haven't thought too much about that). That said, I'm not sure if Korra is a great example of this. I take a male power fantasy with a female protagonist to not differ in any regard from a standard male power fantasy; this is to the extent that, for example, even the woman's relationships would have to be sapphic-- and that's if there's any intimate relationship focus to begin with. In contrast, Korra's relationships and conflicts are markedly feminine when they remind of sex at all. She's capable of very feminine reactions and interactions, and her infatuations are also carried out in a feminine way.
> 
> I can't imagine men trying to live vicariously through that, unless they're already on the simp-to-troon pipeline and they're under the delusion that they can become the femboy tomboy gf dammit i puked a little typing that.


The Power Girl (I forget the actual derisive term someone used) thing isn't just a way for male nerds to get off and self-insert as how they think women are (male brained super heroes with bolt-on tits and a vag), but they always do it as a way to assert moral superiority and fantasize about taking out their male sexual competition.

A Power Girl doesn't just kick ass; she kicks chud ass and she sexually humilates them while frothing with masculine nerd rage. It's not like female rage, which simmers and is colored by anxiety and suffuses their entire being because women rarely compartmentalize as deeply as men. Male nerd rage is vast and unending, and endless litany of ranting and insecurity.

When a Power Girl kills you, there can't be any moral ambiguity because she is both the perfect pure princess on a pedastal that male nerds imagine all women to be, and because they believe that they are unjustly persecuted by their sexual competition (normal guys). They can't bring themselves to see that women are sexual creatures, or just as capable of shitty behavior as men. They don't think women are capable of evil. They don't see women as fully human, which is why they white knight for random women they barely know.

There's a guy that has a thread here, he draws comics featuring a cartoon bear wearing a fedora. Don't remember his name. He had this one comic where he's white knighting some cosplay chick who's flirting with a dude, trying to get laid. In the comic he's bear self-insert jumps over a table with a baseball bat and attacks the dude she's flirting with, and then walks off into the sunset having saved m'lady. That's who I think of when I say male nerds who write Power Girls.



Bloitzhole said:


> Does thread think Mulan is a male or a female power fantasy in its original incarnation (the ballad) ?
> 
> The daughter takes up the sword for the sake of her frail father, distinguishes herself among soldiers for her cunning and bravery in battle, returns to her homestead after the emperor offers her any high office or price. Instead of grabbing power when it is offered, she only asks for a well trained horse so that her return home might be swift, electing to live among and raise a family in obscurity, shirking boons, grandeur and glory - only years later do the veterans visit her homestead and find, to their surprise, that her comrade-in-arms was a female all along.


I think it's a Confucian morality tale. Pretty sensible one too, given what went on in Chinese Imperial courts in those days.



Dyn said:


> Not every story about a badass hero is a power fantasy. Legendary stories like Mulan are usually more morality play or a declaration of a culture's values. A power fantasy is something you can dumbly watch while pawing at your genitals and gawping out "HURRR, THAT'D BE ME IF I WAS THERE HURRRR".
> 
> As to Mulan specifically, her people had nomad ancestry and their enemies didn't. Venerating a probably fictional warrior-woman is a way of empowering yourself and showing you're not ashamed of the heritage your enemies are calling barbaric and uncivilised. Almost all legendary heroes address a cultural insecurity in one way or another.


If she was a nomad, then she was probably a foot taller than the other peasants in the army. Nomads lived on dairy and meat, while peasants ate grain gruel. Not only would she be bigger, taller, and stronger than them, but if you eat meat and dairy then you can go a few days without food with no problem, your food is dried, smoked, or fermented (doesn't need cooking fires, so no one knows where you are camped), and you are hardened by riding, walking, and hunting every day.


----------



## Left Ass Cheek (Nov 17, 2021)

I had a fantasy of a female that was powerful enough to ruin my bedsheets.


----------



## Lemmingwise (Nov 17, 2021)

Troonologist PhD said:


> Idk about most female _power_ fantasies but the signature womanchild escapist fantasy is Sex in the City. It highlights everything wrong with modern women and everything modern feminists want and paints it as a positive. Sex and the City and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.


That's pretty good. Don't they all end up married in their late forties as well in the canon?



MysticLord said:


> I remember when I thought like this, and then after having my heart broken and being socially humiliated I learned the hard way that men are not like women.
> 
> Realizing this evaporated my resentment of them. If you realize that someone isn't like you and can't be like you, then you hold them to a different (not necessarily lower) standard than yourself and other members of your group. In this case, the group is gender.
> 
> ...


Yet you're still logically addressing them like they're male and unsurprisingly, they're not responding as if they are.

This is honestly a very honest, vulnerable and realistic post.

You're like tupac mid transformation between:






And:






Time to come across the river instead of staying inside it.


----------



## Agent Abe Caprine (Nov 17, 2021)

Bayonetta is unironically my power fantasy. Be a badass witch that kills angels and mockingly talk to them like crazy exes. I'd swap the poppy music with Kreator, though.


----------



## Schway (Nov 17, 2021)

Being conquered by a man they find attractive


----------



## LurkNoMore (Nov 17, 2021)

snailslime said:


> i'm just going to leave these crime statistics here because i know thunderdomers love them
> View attachment 2724228


Are these britbong numbers? Fucking eurotrash.


----------



## TheTrumanShow (Nov 17, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> The female power fantasy is power without responsibility and authority without accountability - the ability to do whatever you want and not only to never face consequences, but to make other people suffer the consequences of your failures.
> 
> Topping from the bottom, basically. The power to seduce anyone, the change your appearance to suit the most powerful man in the room, to remain alluring and fertile forever.
> 
> ...




Very good analysis except that last sentence screams of incel-vibes. Most normies might say it's the rest of the post, but it isn't. That stuff is pretty solid.

There are of course many other tropes for women though. For example the muse, the shieldmaiden (arguably more in art) and the innocent/virgin.

There are these other because every woman, obviously, is not obsessed with power fantasies, a sociopath, a projecting or overbearing parent/relative or a silly dunce.  And I doubt you picked mother as an example of a loving one here, considering the rest of the choices and the context of the post.



Lemmingwise said:


> Yet you're still logically addressing them like they're male and unsurprisingly, they're not responding as if they are.
> 
> This is honestly a very honest, vulnerable and realistic post.
> 
> ...




 Bloody excellent post with the the addition  of that you should be mindful of Tupacs full statement there "(not)... ....if youre with a cool female BUT if you're with a bitch".


I'd say this is why sexual submissiveness is relatively common among feminists and a constant topic in various circles. Their "id" gets to shine through their ego/super-ego persona in these intimate places.

But it's also a bad. mad idea to have anything to do with (some) of these "bitches", because you could end up like Julian Assange.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 17, 2021)

LurkNoMore said:


> Are these britbong numbers? Fucking eurotrash.


i'm sure theirs are even worse


----------



## slimes (Nov 17, 2021)

I expected this thread to be like ‘lol idk wearing poison lipstick and killing men ala Poison Ivy’ and it’s instead full of incels talking about how they Totally Understand Women even better than they understand themselves.

What the fuck is up with the horses? Biological imperatives? Y’all all sound autistic as fuck please go outside and speak to people in the real world. Power fantasies tend to be shaped by the media we consume, our surroundings/community, and can shift depending on trends. There are horse girls, dragon girls, wolf girls, makeup girls, romance novel girls. It would be difficult to actually examine what on the whole would be a universal power fantasy because during formative years the entire world likes to shit on everything teenage girls get into so they all end up spending those years hiding a lot of shit and it carries over into their adult lives.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 17, 2021)

Lemmingwise said:


> Yet you're still logically addressing them like they're male and unsurprisingly, they're not responding as if they are.
> 
> This is honestly a very honest, vulnerable and realistic post.
> 
> ...


I'm just hassling them, they'll get over it. There's nothing stopping them from waltzing into a men's discussion thread, calling us all incels, and walking away, and to be honest the attention is flattering when they do so.

You never poked a wasp's nest and ran away when you were a kid?



TheTrumanShow said:


> Very good analysis except that last sentence screams of incel-vibes. Most normies might say it's the rest of the post, but it isn't. That stuff is pretty solid.
> 
> There are of course many other tropes for women though. For example the muse, the shieldmaiden (arguably more in art) and the innocent/virgin.
> 
> There are these other because every woman, obviously, is not obsessed with power fantasies, a sociopath, a projecting or overbearing parent/relative or a silly dunce.  And I doubt you picked mother as an example of a loving one here, considering the rest of the choices and the context of the post.


I'm in a relationship so I really don't care about optics with people whom I don't have an IRL relationship and never will. It's not like there's anywhere else I can go on the internet to blow off steam.

Mother, Maiden, and Crone has roots in pre-Christian religion. Hardly incel-ish to comment on that. It's not like there's a huge variety of male tropes either, you have warrior, leader, scholar, trickster, or builder - pre-modern social and economic classes, in short. Everything not there is a mix of two or more of them.

The muse is usually a mix of all three: the beauty and capriciousness of the seductress/maiden, motherly care, and the hag/crone's wisdom and insight. I doubt that shieldmaidens (as in women who fought in battle) ever existed, and if they did they probably didn't survive contact with a patriarchal culture. Ingenue is maiden again.

How do power fantasies differ from normal childhood "adult role assumption" fantasies? Lack of realism? Is the lack of realism due to a lack of experience with which you can form a reliable and accurate model of the world and your place in it?

When does fantasy become pathological?


----------



## TheTrumanShow (Nov 17, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> I'm just hassling them, they'll get over it. There's nothing stopping them from waltzing into a men's discussion thread, calling us all incels, and walking away, and to be honest the attention is flattering when they do so.
> 
> You never poked a wasp's nest and ran away when you were a kid?
> 
> ...


I'm wondering if its worth continuing this discussion on the basis that you spent several paragraphs slowly diluting your seductress into maiden instead of either just adding maiden to your list of tropes or admitting you're at least partly wrong. 

Cause if anything ( and Im not conceding it) seductress is a variation of maiden, never the other way around.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 17, 2021)

TheTrumanShow said:


> I'm wondering if its worth continuing this discussion on the basis that you spent several paragraphs slowly diluting your seductress into maiden instead of either just adding maiden to your list of tropes or admitting you're at least partly wrong.
> 
> Cause if anything ( and Im not conceding it) seductress is a variation of maiden, never the other way around.


Well if you want to go full autism, a seductress (Circe being the ur-example) is a maiden with the wisdom and insight of a crone and some power (probably inherited) from a divine source.


----------



## TheTrumanShow (Nov 17, 2021)

What the fuck are you talking about?


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 17, 2021)

Never heard of the Illiad?


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 17, 2021)

slimes said:


> It would be difficult to actually examine what on the whole would be a universal power fantasy


Doesn't mean it's in no way worth it to attempt to ascertain whether such a thing exists (for men or women), thus the actually valuable parts of this thread.


----------



## Dyn (Nov 17, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> If she was a nomad, then she was probably a foot taller than the other peasants in the army. Nomads lived on dairy and meat, while peasants ate grain gruel. Not only would she be bigger, taller, and stronger than them, but if you eat meat and dairy then you can go a few days without food with no problem, your food is dried, smoked, or fermented (doesn't need cooking fires, so no one knows where you are camped), and you are hardened by riding, walking, and hunting every day.


She wasn't a nomad, her people were pretty thoroughly sinofied by then, but yes, those are all the reasons a legend about a badass military woman would appeal to the cultural insecurity of 'civilised' people who still got insulted for being descended from nomads.



slimes said:


> What the fuck is up with the horses? Biological imperatives?


Cowboys just wanted to be tiny vulnerable kawaii uwu girls I guess.


----------



## Protistology (Nov 17, 2021)

Troonologist PhD said:


> _Tomb Raider _was good but aside from Lara the MC it's identical to a male power fantasy.


I played Lara Croft Legends for the first time recently. And it occurred to me how she is a gender-swapped James Bond. She's a rich British person, who travels around the world getting into adventures, using various gadgets. She also is overtly sexual.


----------



## TheTrumanShow (Nov 17, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Never heard of the Illiad?


I said what theh fuck are you talking about not who are you talking about.

Meaning what does your new off-tanget have to do with anything. You literally confirmed what I said, that Circe is a seductress who is a maiden. Meaning that the trope is the maiden then and not the seductress. I.e. the first can be a variation of the later but never the other way around.


----------



## Leaf-eon (Nov 18, 2021)

Well sinces I'm a woman I might as well chime in here.
My power fantasy is being able to kick ass and looking good well doing it, kind of like Bayonetta.

And as filthy horse girl I'll answer the horse question for you guys.
Horses are cool and its fun to ride them. Simple as that.


----------



## Lord Neeba (Nov 18, 2021)

There are plenty of character created by women as female power fantasies. The Sailor Scouts from Sailor Moon, for example. This isn't that difficult to do research on and find out.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Leaf-eon said:


> Well sinces I'm a woman I might as well chime in here.
> _My _power fantasy


Emphasis mine. I find it curious how most of the men here sought to propose and justify generalizations for both male and female power fantasies (following the OP's curiosity for such), but most of the women who contributed anything have been talking about specifically their own.

I'm supposing the assumption among the women is that they don't find themselves qualified to make such generalizations?



Lord Neeba said:


> There are plenty of character created by women as female power fantasies. The Sailor Scouts from Sailor Moon, for example.


Which parts of _Sailor Moon_ are the female power fantasy, though? It's not as if the fact that they have power at all and beat up bad guys automatically makes them wholly such, especially as the plot develops and the antagonism becomes more complex.


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 18, 2021)

TheTrumanShow said:


> I said what theh fuck are you talking about not who are you talking about.


Oh , he talks like a hardass, clearly he's very masculine - but also sensitive because he stands up for the defenseless maidens of Kiwi Farms.

Why do you people believe that being inarticulate is a virtue?

It's clear that you're intent on patrolling the discourse for people who disagree with orthodoxy, and then using social shaming to corral dissenters back into the herd. Why don't you do us all a favor and buzz off back to reddit with the rest of your hive?


TheTrumanShow said:


> Meaning what does your new off-tanget have to do with anything. You literally confirmed what I said, that Circe is a seductress who is a maiden. Meaning that the trope is the maiden then and not the seductress. I.e. the first can be a variation of the later but never the other way around.


"Mix of several tropes" vs "variant of one trope, possibly with elements of others" = splitting hairs.



Leaf-eon said:


> Well sinces I'm a woman I might as well chime in here.
> My power fantasy is being able to kick ass and looking good well doing it, kind of like Bayonetta.
> 
> And as filthy horse girl I'll answer the horse question for you guys.
> Horses are cool and its fun to ride them. Simple as that.


To be fair both times I "rode" a horse I felt like I was going to die, and everyone seems to agree on that point, so I'll concede it.


----------



## Save Goober (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Why are women replying how they want to, and not how I think they should?


I don't know, you're the expert. Also women did post stuff like you keep asking for, you just ignored it because it's not what you want to hear either.


----------



## Übertroon (Nov 18, 2021)

You seen the ridiculous bimbo avatars women use in Second Life? That's their power fantasy


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 18, 2021)

Übertroon said:


> You seen the ridiculous bimbo avatars women use in Second Life? That's their power fantasy


Any time I see a ridiculous bimbo I automatically assume that's a man.


----------



## Übertroon (Nov 18, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Any time I see a ridiculous bimbo I automatically assume that's a man.


Well half of them will be men, but I'm fucking shocked how often it's women as well. Without exception, if you give women the opportunity to go full bimbo slut they will always take it. Been playing FF14 the last year, and the women consistently go for fetish outfits


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Save Goober said:


> Also women...





Zero Day Defense said:


> I find it curious how *most of *the men here sought to propose and justify generalizations for both male and female power fantasies (following the OP's curiosity for such), but* most of* the women who contributed anything have been talking about specifically their own.


In case you missed it. And in case you still don't get it: "not all women".

Yes, I _did _check.

My point was that I was seeing a trend in how men and women were responding, where men almost always attempted to make detached observations (whether of women, or both men and women as part of a comparison) whereas women would almost always relay self-observations-- if they weren't chastising men for their approach.


Save Goober said:


> you just ignored it because it's not what you want to hear either.


I was asking about an interesting pattern because I was genuinely curious about it. Observe:


Zero Day Defense said:


> I'm supposing the assumption among the women is that they don't find themselves qualified to make such generalizations?


So, spare me your passive aggression, and stop imputing moral value to power fantasies. They both generally make for low quality and largely uninteresting stories that people only read to indulge themselves in a fiction where their desires can directly control the trajectory of their lives. The value of talking about them is in-- perhaps-- coming to a better understanding of the fundamental desires of men and women.

Shit, feel free to leverage _your_ understanding of men in order to give your theory on what men look for in their power fantasies and why. The "worst" that could happen is that you might be contradicted, but nobody's gonna call you a femcel or imply you're a pedophile for trying.

inb4 tl;dr, again


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 18, 2021)

Übertroon said:


> Well half of them will be men, but I'm fucking shocked how often it's women as well. Without exception, if you give women the opportunity to go full bimbo slut they will always take it. Been playing FF14 the last year, and the women consistently go for fetish outfits


Don't criticize them, I don't want them to stop.


----------



## Übertroon (Nov 18, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> Don't criticize them, I don't want them to stop.


It's not criticism, in fact I'm baffled that western creators think they're catering to women by making everything as non sexual as possible


----------



## Agarathium1066 (Nov 18, 2021)

MysticLord said:


> To be fair both times I "rode" a horse I felt like I was going to die, and everyone seems to agree on that point, so I'll concede it.


That's what I've always found so great about horses, they're massive beasts that are beautiful in a way. You can guide them, teach them, and work with them. You can quickly go from feeling in control to holding on tight for your life if you aren't smart about it.

..Though also they're gross as hell to maintain, stupid, and ornery. Also extremely expensive.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Emphasis mine. I find it curious how most of the men here sought to propose and justify generalizations for both male and female power fantasies (following the OP's curiosity for such), but most of the women who contributed anything have been talking about specifically their own.


maybe it's because this thread isn't about the male power fantasy but about the female one. no need to write a huge wall of spergery


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 18, 2021)

Übertroon said:


> It's not criticism, in fact I'm baffled that western creators think they're catering to women by making everything as non sexual as possible


That's more extremely ugly/insecure creators or middle(wo)men trying to make everything that diverts male attention from them uglier than they are. Actual emotionally secure women love showing off.



Agarathium1066 said:


> That's what I've always found so great about horses, they're massive beasts that are beautiful in a way. You can guide them, teach them, and work with them. You can quickly go from feeling in control to holding on tight for your life if you aren't smart about it.
> 
> ..Though also they're gross as hell to maintain, stupid, and ornery. Also extremely expensive.


Another point I just thought of in the womyn's favor: it's something that requires skill and animal empathy to do well. Strength and size may be useful but they probably aren't necessary. So maybe it's like gymnastics and women are just better at it than men.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

snailslime said:


> maybe it's because this thread isn't about the male power fantasy but about the female one.


Yes, the _female_ power fantasy. Not _an individual woman's_ power fantasy per se, but what's seemingly popular among women at large, how, and why.

The point of bringing up male power fantasies was, consistently, to juxtapose it with a proposed theory for female power fantasies. That pattern is in line with the opening post.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Yes, the _female_ power fantasy. Not _an individual woman's_ power fantasy per se, but what's seemingly popular among women at large, how, and why.
> 
> The point of bringing up male power fantasies was, consistently, to juxtapose it with the proposed theory for female power fantasies. That pattern is also in line with the opening post.


then why don't you listen to what actual women have to say about this lmao


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

snailslime said:


> then why don't you listen to what actual women have to say about this lmao


Why don't you read how this tangent started and make a relevant comment?


----------



## snailslime (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Why don't you read how this tangent started and make a relevant comment?


because you use a whole lot of words to say literally nothing.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

snailslime said:


> because you use a whole lot of words to say literally nothing.


If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to make any kind of response-- relevant or otherwise.

Exchanges like these are why I firmly believe you were better off lurking and posting trash cans, like you used to.

And yes, I know, the trash cans were taken away. That's not my problem.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to make any kind of response-- relevant or otherwise.
> 
> Exchanges like these are why I firmly believe you were better off lurking and posting trash cans, like you used to.
> 
> And yes, I know, the trash cans were taken away. That's not my problem.


i think you just like to see yourself type


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

snailslime said:


> i think you just like to see yourself type


Reads like I hit a nerve. You can't be _that _dull if you caught on to what I was implying.


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to make any kind of response-- relevant or otherwise.
> 
> Exchanges like these are why I firmly believe you were better off lurking and posting trash cans, like you used to.
> 
> And yes, I know, the trash cans were taken away. That's not my problem.


What are you trying to argue again?


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Women like horses.

@MysticLord & @Zero Day Defense: let me write up an obscure essay and thesis on why and how women and horses relate to an absurd power fantasy from the school of /pol/.


Zero Day Defense said:


> In case you missed it. And in case you still don't get it: "not all women".
> 
> Yes, I _did _check.


You're sounding like a pervert.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

What the shit said:


> What are you trying to argue again?


I started this tangent making an observation about the way men and women so far have been tending to contribute (men seem more bird's-eye in examining and contrasting both types of power fantasies, women are more self-referential).

I've expressed curiosity as to why that is, then I pointed out that women can do what the men have largely done without being condemned for doing so. 



The Last Stand said:


> Women like horses.
> 
> @MysticLord & @Zero Day Defense: let me write up an obscure essay and thesis on why and how women and horses relate to an absurd power fantasy from the school of /pol/.


I haven't said a damn thing about horses. 



The Last Stand said:


> You're sounding like a pervert.


...for pointing out that I checked to make sure that what I was saying could even conceivably be an accurate representation of reality?

Or for not saying a single thing about horses?


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to make any kind of response-- relevant or otherwise.
> 
> Exchanges like these are why I firmly believe you were better off lurking and posting trash cans, like you used to.
> 
> And yes, I know, the trash cans were taken away. That's not my problem.


My female fantasy would be putting you in a choke hold.


----------



## Save Goober (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Why don't you read how this tangent started and make a relevant comment?


Maybe people don't want another five page argument over the definition of a dad bod


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I started this tangent making an observation about the way men and women so far have been tending to contribute (men seem more bird's-eye in examining and contrasting both types of power fantasies, women are more self-referential).
> 
> I've expressed curiosity as to why that is, then I pointed out that women can do what the men have largely done without being condemned for doing so.
> 
> ...









There's MY female fantasy to you.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Save Goober said:


> Maybe people don't want another five page argument over the definition of a dad bod


If they don't want that, maybe they shouldn't participate in a five page argument over the definition of a dad bod-- much less when they've hardly seen their own.

I haven't a clue as to what has to do with what I said.


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If they don't want that, maybe they shouldn't participate in a five page argument over the definition of a dad bod-- much less when they've hardly seen their own.
> 
> I haven't a clue as to what has to do with what I said.


Are you married?


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> Are you married?


Have you met your father?


----------



## IAmNotAlpharius (Nov 18, 2021)

A bit off topic but something I find fascinating is the difference between men and women when it comes to what’s considered the “ideal” male body. It was a small sample size and informal but something we discussed in one of the classes I took way back when. There were similarities, namely they were tall and in shape, but guys tended to think brawlers were ideal. I always thought a broader and more refined study would be interesting to see because I don’t know if it holds water… it was just a single class that was polled.

We also had the opposite discussion as well but it wasn’t as pronounced of a difference. So I find that less interesting.


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Have you met your father?


Nice deflection.


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Nov 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> Are you married?


Imagine being married to him.

"Honey, what do you want for dinner?"

_*nonsensical autistic rambling*_


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Imagine being married to him.
> 
> "Honey, what do you want for dinner?"
> 
> _*nonsensical autistic rambling*_


Then he'll go on some long explanation on female norms of being a stay-at-home wife and preparing dinner.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> Nice deflection.


You asked a question you certainly know the answer to, and-- it would now appear-- has nothing to do with any conversational tangent here, except maybe targeting a supposed insecurity.

Not picking up on that was foolish of me. I thought we were still talking about dad bods. Should have cut that conversation, too.



Bunny Tracks said:


> Imagine being married to him.
> 
> "Honey, what do you want for dinner?"
> 
> _*nonsensical autistic rambling*_


Imagine going out with you.

After you have fights with your boyfriend where you weaponize what you believe to be his insecurities, and self-justify electing to be a fetid cunt by alleging that you're only embracing a villainy supposedly imputed onto you, you storyboard with your friends fiction where he's emasculated in various ways to work out the steam.



The Last Stand said:


> Then he'll go on some long explanation on female norms of being a stay-at-home wife and preparing dinner.


what the fuck are you going on about


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> what the fuck are you going on about


What are YOU on about? The thread was about a "female power fantasy," you come in and try to tell OTHER women that their perceived fantasy is incorrect.


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> If they don't want that, maybe they shouldn't participate in a five page argument over the definition of a dad bod-- much less when they've hardly seen their own.
> 
> I haven't a clue as to what has to do with what I said.


“But he pushed me first!”


----------



## Bunny Tracks (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You asked a question you certainly know the answer to, and-- it would now appear-- has nothing to do with any conversational tangent here, except maybe targeting a supposed insecurity.
> 
> Not picking up on that was foolish of me. I thought we were still talking about dad bods. Should have cut that conversation, too.
> 
> ...


*has spent the entire thread writing autistic flowery freudian essays*

"what the fuck are you going on about"


----------



## snailslime (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You asked a question you certainly know the answer to, and-- it would now appear-- has nothing to do with any conversational tangent here, except maybe targeting a supposed insecurity.
> 
> Not picking up on that was foolish of me. I thought we were still talking about dad bods. Should have cut that conversation, too.
> 
> ...


you never told me - how did your girlfriend break up with you? what did you do to set her off? i am genuinely curious lol


----------



## LurkNoMore (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I find it curious how most of the men here sought to propose and justify generalizations for both male and female power fantasies (following the OP's curiosity for such), but most of the women who contributed anything have been talking about specifically their own.


Women are more collective then men. One woman's assumption of what they like and how they act gets applied to all other women. I've noticed this especially when it comes to immoral behavior. As in "No woman would ever do that". 

Of course they talk about their verison of a power fantasy, because they find it awesome and therefore other women will as well.


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

LurkNoMore said:


> Of course they talk about their verison of a power fantasy, because they find it awesome and therefore other women will as well.


That's the problem. A "fantasy" is that, a personal fantasy. Your fantasy may differ from another. When you make a mass product, you have to generalize for a general audience.


----------



## Cilleystring (Nov 18, 2021)

Everyone in this thread is stupid. The female power fantasy is obviously pegging.


----------



## Rotollo 2 (Nov 18, 2021)

The sims or animal crossing, unironically


----------



## slimes (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Doesn't mean it's in no way worth it to attempt to ascertain whether such a thing exists (for men or women), thus the actually valuable parts of this thread.



The issue is the way you’re going about this. You (and others in this thread) are basically rambling about things that could _conceivably_ be a power fantasy but your rhetoric is condescending and overbearing. You also don’t seem to understand that there are women in this thread telling you that isn’t how they feel and you’re brushing that off as individualism. A better solution for you would be to look into what these women are saying and find the things similar or different about them and extrapolate from there what could be driving those decisions. I’m not trying to be a dick here, I really think you’re trying. I just don’t think you’re taking from the conversation what you need for a valid argument in your favor.


----------



## The Ugly One (Nov 18, 2021)

Übertroon said:


> Well half of them will be men, but I'm fucking shocked how often it's women as well. Without exception, if you give women the opportunity to go full bimbo slut they will always take it. Been playing FF14 the last year, and the women consistently go for fetish outfits



There's a reason both men's and women's magazines have hot babes on the front. I mean, back when people still bought magazines. Now they just put troons on the cover.


----------



## Left Ass Cheek (Nov 18, 2021)

The Ugly One said:


> There's a reason both men's and women's magazines have hot babes on the front. I mean, back when people still bought magazines. Now they just put troons on the cover.


What's the troon power fantasy? Don't say being a Discord janny. That's very much a reality.


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> You asked a question you certainly know the answer to, and-- it would now appear-- has nothing to do with any conversational tangent here, except maybe targeting a supposed insecurity.
> 
> Not picking up on that was foolish of me. I thought we were still talking about dad bods. Should have cut that conversation, too.
> 
> ...


My girlfriend gave me permission to call you a dumb nigger


----------



## The Ugly One (Nov 18, 2021)

Left Ass Cheek said:


> What's the troon power fantasy? Don't say being a Discord janny. That's very much a reality.


Being able to force themselves to accept that they're actually women.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Nov 18, 2021)

Reading this thread makes me want to go make some popcorn.



slimes said:


> The issue is the way you’re going about this. You (and others in this thread) are basically rambling about things that could _conceivably_ be a power fantasy but your rhetoric is condescending and overbearing. You also don’t seem to understand that there are women in this thread telling you that isn’t how they feel and you’re brushing that off as individualism. A better solution for you would be to look into what these women are saying and find the things similar or different about them and extrapolate from there what could be driving those decisions. I’m not trying to be a dick here, I really think you’re trying. I just don’t think you’re taking from the conversation what you need for a valid argument in your favor.




I really hope Zero Day Defense actually reads this thread and takes it to heart instead of just going on another tirade.



Left Ass Cheek said:


> What's the troon power fantasy? Don't say being a Discord janny. That's very much a reality.



The troon power fantasy is pretty much the textbook definition of autogynephilia


----------



## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> In case you missed it. And in case you still don't get it: "not all women".
> 
> Yes, I _did _check.
> 
> ...


If someone understands women, it's definitely the incel


----------



## Cilleystring (Nov 18, 2021)

Hollywood Hulk Hogan said:


> If someone understands women, it's definitely the incel


I could see incels making the argument that they provide an outside perspective and unbiased account on how women truly think and behave. I'm sure that's been said many times on those forums.


----------



## The Ugly One (Nov 18, 2021)

Re: thread topic

I asked a woman about this once. She said, "Oh, that's easy. Everyone adoring my radiant smile and long, flowing hair."


----------



## Tour of Italy (Nov 18, 2021)

At this point I'm pretty sure the female power fantasy is making 11 other jurors put up with your bullshit for four days while you try to whine your way into a conviction.


----------



## Pee Cola (Nov 18, 2021)

Here I was, thinking that the female power fantasy question was answered in 1997.


----------



## IAmNotAlpharius (Nov 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> There's MY female fantasy to you.


What if I like to be slapped?


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> What are YOU on about? The thread was about a "female power fantasy," you come in and try to tell OTHER women that their perceived fantasy is incorrect.


_When did I say that? _


What the shit said:


> “But he pushed me first!”


More like "it takes two to tango".


Bunny Tracks said:


> *has spent the entire thread writing autistic flowery freudian essays*
> 
> "what the fuck are you going on about"


..I _did_ say that, yes. It's a comment that has nothing to do with anything or anyone that exists here.



slimes said:


> You (and others in this thread) are basically rambling about things that could _conceivably_ be a power fantasy but your rhetoric is condescending and overbearing.


Coerce the argument into mutual level-headedness as you give your contribution, don't participate in/withdraw from the conversation, or expect the breakdown that will almost inevitably follow in lobbing meaningless insults. I can't control anybody else, and nobody can control the tonal impressions anyone gets from anyone else.

Tone policing is bullshit, especially in totally opt-in and opt-out conversations.


slimes said:


> You also don’t seem to understand that there are women in this thread telling you that isn’t how they feel and you’re brushing that off as individualism.


At a more productive point in this thread, the conversations I had on this front roughly resembled:

"I reckon women overall have strong interest in fiction such as X (as supported by its sales and enduring cultural presence) because it appeals to some set A, B, and C of seemingly common female traits and desires."

"Not all women are like that. I'm not like that. I've never heard any woman claim that."

"I didn't claim _all _women were like that, I was making a generalization based on what I made it on. _Is there a reason why I should take you and your personal experiences as even vaguely generally representative?_"

We're an abnormal population sample and I know close to nothing about most of you-- that italicized question is especially pertinent. Yet I _think _I was expected to just accept the argument because the person saying it said she was a woman, and not because she was in a special position that lent gravity to her observation (no, being an individual woman, by itself, doesn't lend that).

You claim:


slimes said:


> A better solution for you would be to look into what these women are saying and find the things similar or different about them and extrapolate from there what could be driving those decisions.


but _why _would that be a better solution?

You're asking that I attempt to grok the motivations of a small, completely opt-in, naturally abnormal sample size, in pursuit of an effective generalization for a global subculture. This is despite the fact that nearly all the people in said group only ever talked about _their_ power fantasy, without trying to contrast it with any other proposed group _or _contradict any generalized theory given.

Why should I do that, when their perspectives are framed as "speaking-for-myself"? And are you claiming I should do so in place of considering other groups that are much larger and broader? If not, why are the statements of ~13 people (I'm spitballing, here) making inherently individual statements a sufficient contradiction _or _elucidation of millions of people making directed time and money investments? Why would they provide any strong insight to their comparatively extremely large subculture, by themselves?

Even saying there's _no _such thing as a "proper generalization" would be a more relevant argument, because the validity of such an argument preempts the entire conversation by attacking the assumption that a generalization _can_ be made.



Zelos Wilder said:


> My girlfriend gave me permission to call you a dumb nigger


But did _Tyrone _consent?


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Tone policing is bullshit, especially in totally opt-in and opt-out conversations.


It's not bullshit though if you're trying to have a reasonable conversation. Having a shitty tone won't lend well to anything you're trying to argue.


----------



## Mal0 (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> But did _Tyrone _consent?


No worries lil' nigga, I told him he could. Just meant no new funko pops this week


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

What the shit said:


> It's not bullshit though if you're trying to have a reasonable conversation.


Which is why I say:


Zero Day Defense said:


> Coerce the argument into mutual level-headedness as you give your contribution, don't participate in/withdraw from the conversation, or expect the breakdown that will almost inevitably follow in lobbing meaningless insults.


Saying "you're being mean" isn't a valuable statement. Is the other person going to _stop_ being mean in response? You only know for sure that _you _want to have the conversation.



Mal0 said:


> No worries lil' nigga, I told him he could. Just meant no new funko pops this week


Truly, you're a merciful bull. My understanding is that the penalty is a reverse buck breaking.


----------



## Knight of the Rope (Nov 18, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> I guess if you want to bitch about white women do that, too.


You sly motherfucker, you knew exactly what you were doing.

(And your honeypot was a hilarious success. My hat is off to you, sir.)


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Which is why I say:


But she obviously has no ill-will towards you in any way. She was clear, concise, and polite about making a claim about you.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

What the shit said:


> But she obviously has no ill-will towards you in any way.


Which is why I don't address her with poor temper in my response. Which is why I take the time to be as cogent _and_ concise as I can.

That doesn't mean that I'm not going to call tone policing, in completely optional conversations, bullshit. 

Because it is.


----------



## HullDown (Nov 18, 2021)

Just to try and salvage the OP, can actual flesh-and-blood females (_tips Trilby)  _point to an actual book, tv series, movie or game that has a 1) mainly female audience and 2) whose appeal is mostly in being a power fantasy for their audience? Maybe talk about the media and how they experience it a bit? I can understand how having only men talk about women's media and the tropes in it can be tiring, but having men talk about media and women commenting about the men talking about media and men talking about the women talking about the men talking about media... I am afraid the thread is going full recursive


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Which is why I don't address her with poor temper in my response. Which is why I take the time to be as cogent _and_ concise as I can.
> 
> That doesn't mean that I'm not going to call tone policing, in completely optional conversations, bullshit.
> 
> Because it is.


So Mr ZDD, what is the main thing you are trying to argue?


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> _When did I say that? _
> 
> More like "it takes two to tango".
> 
> ...


I'm not reading all that.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

What the shit said:


> what is the main thing you are trying to argue?


I'd really like to see what women think of the general underlying appeal of female power fantasies-- and even that of male power fantasies if they care to theorize about that. It would be more interesting than just saying "this is _my_ female power fantasy", since that's not able to be extrapolated and-- frankly-- obviously isn't meant to be.


Zelos Wilder said:


> I'm not reading all that.


How much of a koala are you that four words is too much to read?


----------



## Mal0 (Nov 18, 2021)

Guys, just woke my girlfriend up to ask her what the female power fantasy was. She said "to not be asked retarded questions".

We have our answer now, jannies close thread pls


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I'd really like to see what women think of the general underlying appeal of female power fantasies-- and even that of male power fantasies if they care to theorize about that. It would be more interesting than just saying "this is _my_ female power fantasy", since that's not able to be extrapolated and-- frankly-- obviously isn't meant to be.
> 
> How much of a koala are you that four words is too much to read?


Nothing you write would be of any worth reading. You're the kiwi farms equivalent of Buzzfeed articles.


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

Mal0 said:


> We have our answer now, jannies close thread pls


NO. We need ZDD to agree on something before jannies close the thread.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Zelos Wilder said:


> You're the kiwi farms equivalent of Buzzfeed articles.


On the contrary, you're the Kiwi Farms equivalent of _The Root._


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> On the contrary, you're the Kiwi Farms equivalent of _The Root._


Did you really just hit me with a "no u" 
Just fuck off already. It's past your bedtime and a school night. You don't want to be cranky for History in the morning.


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

I wish Jean Harlow was alive. 




 


Zero Day Defense said:


> On the contrary, you're the Kiwi Farms equivalent of _The Root._


Explain how.


----------



## Pee Cola (Nov 18, 2021)

HullDown said:


> Just to try and salvage the OP, can actual flesh-and-blood females (_tips Trilby)  _point to an actual book, tv series, movie or game that has a 1) mainly female audience and 2) whose appeal is mostly in being a power fantasy for their audience?


Sex And The City.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Zelos Wilder said:


> Just fuck off already. It's past your bedtime and a school night. You don't want to be cranky for History in the morning.


Don't take out your Funko Pop withdrawal out on me.


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Don't take out your Funko Pop withdrawal out on me.


God you don't have an actual argument, so you go with reddit tier insults. 
Get something good or shut the fuck up.


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Don't take out your Funko Pop withdrawal out on me.


What's YOUR female power fantasy?


----------



## MysticLord (Nov 18, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> What's YOUR female power fantasy?


----------



## Lichen Bark (Nov 18, 2021)

You guys have it all wrong! The female power fantasy is on where she frees Etheria from the evil forces of Hordak, everyone knows this!


----------



## Agent Abe Caprine (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Have you met your father?


Did you just come out of the closet?


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Zelos Wilder said:


> God you don't have an actual argument, so you go with reddit tier insults.


That wasn't an insult. That was a plea. 

Everyone knows about your punishment.


The Last Stand said:


> What's YOUR female power fantasy?


I don't have a single X chromosome. Why would you ask me this?


Lichen Bark said:


> You guys have it all wrong! The female power fantasy is on where she frees Etheria from the evil forces of Hordak, everyone knows this!


Homie, that's just a male power fantasy with tits!


Agent Abe Caprine said:


> Did you just come out of the closet?


I don't get it.


----------



## Pee Cola (Nov 18, 2021)

I wonder how many true and honest females ITT are currently having a power fantasy about pegging @Zero Day Defense?


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> That wasn't an insult. That was a plea.
> 
> Everyone knows about your punishment.
> 
> ...


You're wasting everyone's time with your stupid incel bullshit. 

Fuck off.


----------



## Spedestrian (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't have a single X chromosome. Why would you ask me this?


Ah, it all makes sense now. I'd hate women too if I was a man with two X chromosomes and my testicles had been withered by Klinefelter Syndrome.


----------



## What the shit (Nov 18, 2021)

This is unbelievable gay now.


----------



## TV's Adam West (Nov 18, 2021)

@Zero Day Defense That's it. I am sick of you. You want to fight or something? What is your deal? Come to my house. Fuck around and find out. I am a professional bodybuilder/MMA fighter. Come at me bro. My address: 25 SW 8th Cy, Delray Beach, FL USA.

Let me know when you get close. I will go outside. Let's sort it out like men.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't have a single X chromosome. Why would you ask me this?



You do realize guys also have an X chromosome, right?


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 18, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> You do realize guys also have an X chromosome, right?


You sound like an SJW. Now let him explain to you in paragraphs why you're stupid.


----------



## slimes (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> _When did I say that? _
> 
> More like "it takes two to tango".
> 
> ...



Alright. I'll bite.

I don't know about horses or wolves or dragons, but I can do a little media sperging for you.



Spoiler: I got off my phone for this. Appreciate me.



Your first issue is equating it to what a male "power fantasy" is in the scope of media consumption. Looking at media with a sweeping generalization would find that due to many factors over the last few decades there has been a consensus by those who greenlight projects on what a male power fantasy is. Does this fantasy appeal to all men? No, not particularly, but it does appeal to enough of them en masse that context can be drawn and said generalizations can be made. 

The problem with attempting to turn this exact lens into a female power fantasy is that the lens was constructed for men. It's male gaze vs female gaze in the most academic sense, which encompasses more than aesthetics, but it doesn't exactly translate when a decidedly large chunk of culture shaping media (especially in the last forty years or so) aims for that ever lucrative 18-35 male demographic. This _is_ changing, but by half measures and not in areas that are more niche and thus dependent on the sales the 18-35 male group have shown more consistent returns on. 

So to look at things that appeal to women on a broader spectrum makes sense, but rather than looking at sales or only shows that have proven female audiences one would need to also speak to women in those groups and you'd still find many dissenting opinions as to whether it's something idealized or simply something that they enjoyed for being different from most media they consume. 

The easy answer to conclude right there is that women don't have a power fantasy in the strictest sense. That's not the answer you're looking for. So you'd need to change your approach. These characters, in often male gaze laden media, are still considered to be female "power fantasy" characters:

Bayonetta - woman observed through almost strictly male gaze who doesn't give a shit and does what she wants anyway
Lara Croft - once a strong willed witty character now bogged down in the grime of gritty realism thus losing most general appeal to both sexes (but with very fond memories attached)
Katniss - supported her family by taking a supposed death sentence instead of her sister and coming out on top
Mystique - true meaning of femme fatale who fights for her rights with cold blooded iron will
Buffy - kicking vampire/demon ass with one hand and handle her social circle with the other
Xena - warrior princess who took on the gods before Kratos 
The Bride - out to kill her former lover and take back her child
Nancy Botwin - Breaking Bad, but for the suburban mom

Most of these examples have one thing in common - the ability to control what happens to themselves beyond the scope of the every day. This is the same once you boil it down as a male power fantasy. If you take out what the characters look like, both in male and female power fantasy stories, the entire thing becomes 'control' on either side. So what do women want control over? We have to step back into reality for a bit and that's where this breakdown starts getting iffy. 

We make jokes about sexism and glass ceilings and what have you all the time on this site, but if you asked the average woman what they say they want control over it doesn't tend to be monetary power on a large scale or exacting absolute power in her workplace. It's softer things. Control over her body and how others view it, To be seen the way she perceives herself in her heart. A stable environment where she can do as she pleases with her time. If she has children, control over a future where they can be happy and flourish. Freedom to find love and/or a healthy relationship that is fulfilling and lasts. Revenge on those who harm her. Take those ideas and throw the filter of media grandiose spectacle on top and you find that list of characters I placed earlier. This is, again, a generalization, but a decently informed one. 

All of this is without getting into the cesspit that would be a more woke breakdown involving character body types and attire. That's nothing I'm touching with a ten foot pole and I don't suggest you do either. Go play in the Bikini Battle Armor Damage thread if that gives you a giggle.

So what, definitively, is a female power fantasy? I don't have a conclusive answer to that, but I don't think it has to do with getting off while riding a horse or whatever else it is incels seem to think.



There ya go. I've contributed in a meaningful way. Enjoy.


----------



## Uncle Warren (Nov 18, 2021)

Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Hollywood Hulk Hogan (Nov 18, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't have a single X chromosome. Why would you ask me this?





			Double Y syndrome - Conditions - GTR - NCBI
		




> 47,XYY syndrome is characterized by an extra copy of the Y chromosome in each of a male's cells. Although many males with this condition are taller than average, the chromosomal change sometimes causes no unusual physical features. Most males with 47,XYY syndrome have normal production of the male sex hormone testosterone and normal sexual development, and they are usually able to father children.\n\n47,X*YY syndrome is associated with an increased risk of learning disabilities and delayed development of speech and language skills. Affected boys can have delayed development of motor skills (such as sitting and walking) or weak muscle tone (hypotonia). Other signs and symptoms of this condition include hand tremors or other involuntary movements (motor tics), seizures, and asthma. Males with 47,XYY syndrome have an increased risk of behavioral, social, and emotional difficulties compared with their unaffected peers. These problems include attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD); depression; anxiety; and autism spectrum disorder, which is a group of developmental conditions that affect communication and social interaction.*\n\nPhysical features related to 47,XYY syndrome can include increased belly fat, a large head (macrocephaly), unusually large teeth (macrodontia), flat feet (pes planus), fifth fingers that curve inward (clinodactyly), widely spaced eyes (ocular hypertelorism), and abnormal side-to-side curvature of the spine (scoliosis). These characteristics vary widely among affected boys and men


----------



## Trombonista (Nov 18, 2021)

Pee Cola said:


> I wonder how many true and honest females ITT are currently having a power fantasy about pegging @Zero Day Defense?


Not worth it.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 18, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> You do realize guys also have an X chromosome, right?


Evidently. _Every other guy_ also has an X chromosome.

Except for me, because I'm more guy than any other guy.

I'm double guy.



Spoiler: You're appreciated greatly.






slimes said:


> Your first issue is equating it to what a male "power fantasy" is in the scope of media consumption. Looking at media with a sweeping generalization would find that due to many factors over the last few decades there has been a consensus by those who greenlight projects on what a male power fantasy is. Does this fantasy appeal to all men? No, not particularly, but it does appeal to enough of them en masse that context can be drawn and said generalizations can be made.
> 
> The problem with attempting to turn this exact lens into a female power fantasy is that the lens was constructed for men. It's male gaze vs female gaze in the most academic sense, which encompasses more than aesthetics, but it doesn't exactly translate when a decidedly large chunk of culture shaping media (especially in the last forty years or so) aims for that ever lucrative 18-35 male demographic. This _is_ changing, but by half measures and not in areas that are more niche and thus dependent on the sales the 18-35 male group have shown more consistent returns on.



It reads as though you're alleging that the way that we measure what power fantasies appeal to men (follow the productions, follow the money) can't be applied to how we measure what appeals to women because the entertainment is primarily shaped by males, and therefore even entertainment created principally for women is affected in such a way that their media will be less representative of their desires.

If that's the case, I don't think that's a good argument. Unless we want to argue that there's no such thing as fundamental or primal inclinations, just the fact that the entertainment industry (and therefore, whatever is produced for women) is principally male-constructed doesn't change the fact that women are responding well, with their time (especially when evidenced in persistent cultural phenomena) and money, to products with certain qualities. They're doing so out of their free will and without effective social pressure, so any abundance or lack of women-oriented media is irrelevant absent a demonstration of a substantial alternate reason why they could consume such media (e.g. they're consuming it with their boyfriends/husbands). The closest implication is that this industry occasionally appeals to women effectively, and we can observe the qualities of those cases and get a rough idea of what they found appealing, then cross-reference, induce, and deduce with whatever else we know about female subculture to get some sense of underlying reasons of various depths.

You're likely fundamentally right in the sense that the_ predominantly male_ entertainment industry naturally has a worse grasp on female appeal than it does male, but you already acknowledge that what the entertainment industry pumps out for _men _as a power fantasy doesn't necessarily appeal to all men.

My questions would, then, be as follows:

1) Precisely how worse could it be for women, such that measures of their time and money investments are painting a picture less accurate than they do for men, when there exists in both cases the same fundamental issue of "sometimes what they produce doesn't appeal to a lot of people of a certain demographic en masse".

2) Why would it be _more _important to interrogate women about what appealed to them in the media they elected to consume in the first place (and in particular, why is it women in particular that we have to ask about whether they consumed something only because it was "different" than what they're used to)?



slimes said:


> The easy answer to conclude right there is that women don't have a power fantasy in the strictest sense. That's not the answer you're looking for.



You then go on to attempt to distill various fantasies in order to isolate for demonstration a spectrum of a woman's desires, and I regret for the second time in this response that the AT lacks the Thunk-Provoking rating.

I don't have anything to add to what you said, or any point to contradict, but I will say further that it's already been demonstrated-- and perhaps outright acknowledged-- that there isn't a concrete sense of a particular power fantasy for _men_. From what I recall, most weren't offering a specific narrative that they claimed men were into when they wanted to vicariously live out power fantasies, but rather they sought to describe various disjoint things or certain trends that men would appreciate more than others when fantasizing about power.

On the horse thing, though: I didn't really put much stock into it as originally relayed (I didn't really think much of it), but I am recalling that a woman described something that sounded about right and was already consonant with something I had said prior-- rather than an idea of juxtaposing the the vulnerable with the strong in order to enhance the sense of the former, it has to do with being able to tame and befriend a strong animal, and I figured that this wasn't fundamentally unlike "taming" a powerful man that normally doesn't need anything material from you but regardless wants you because he enjoys you and your presence.

I might have missed it, or I don't remember it, but I feel as though the opportunity was missed to point out that the reason why the juxtaposition theory doesn't work is because its value has nothing to do with providing a power fantasy and _everything _to do with demonstrating attractiveness for those that are into female vulnerability. It would seem that rather than being a female power fantasy, it's a male fetish cast as a female power fantasy.



slimes said:


> I got off my phone for this. Appreciate me.





slimes said:


> There ya go. I've contributed in a meaningful way. Enjoy.



Regardless of my disagreements, I thank you sincerely for giving me something thoughtful and enjoyable to read.





Trombonista said:


> Not worth it.


>implying you at least tried having one

Gross. KF women really are built different.

It's also really weird how this isn't the first time someone's indicated that they've fantasized in any capacity about pegging me


----------



## Trombonista (Nov 18, 2021)

> >implying you at least tried having one
> 
> Gross. KF women really are built different.



Lol you even think you know what women are thinking when they post. Just take the L and accept that maybe you don't know everything about women.


----------



## Left Ass Cheek (Nov 18, 2021)

If I had to guess, the female power fantasy is as multifaceted as the male power fantasy. It's true that the archetypical badass or super savant fits that male power fantasy mold, but so to do characters that can't really be described like that without the caveat that their actions may be cool, but they still aren't meant to be seen as conventionally cool irregardless of their actions. Peter Parker is characterized as a dorky nerd even after he gets his powers and bags the hot red head, for example. We know Peter is cool, but he isn't James Bond cool, but he still counts. I'd pick Sarah Connor in Terminator and T2 as an example of a power fantasy not because she becomes a badass, but because she's so important that the entire future hinges on her survival.

Idk about horses but you can't name a more iconic duo than white girls and dogs, anyways.


----------



## Leslie Nielsen (Nov 18, 2021)

This thread sure went to shit fast.


----------



## atleast3letterslong (Nov 18, 2021)

Zelos Wilder said:


> @Zero Day Defense That's it. I am sick of you. You want to fight or something? What is your deal? Come to my house. Fuck around and find out. I am a professional bodybuilder/MMA fighter. Come at me bro. My address: 25 SW 8th Cy, Delray Beach, FL USA.
> 
> Let me know when you get close. I will go outside. Let's sort it out like men.


Care to put your money where your mouth is, faggot?
2200 EST, 05/28/2020, 4210 Wolfetown Rd, Cherokee, NC 28719
Bring as many of your cowardly friends as you want; I'll go to prison, but all of you will go to the morgue.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 18, 2021)

Leslie Nielsen said:


> This thread sure went to shit fast.


it was never good


----------



## Prophetic Spirit (Nov 18, 2021)

I can't believe how a question without a proper answer (see the first pages to see that) spawns this shitshow involving a true incel.
Well, time to me to go.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 19, 2021)

Prophetic Spirit said:


> I can't believe how a question without a proper answer (see the first pages to see that) spawns this shitshow involving a true incel.
> Well, time to me to go.


I mean Zero Day did bring up how a lot of people were just saying what their power fantasy was, rather than what is the common view of a female power fantasy. I don't think having a dick precludes you from having a take on this, I think having a Neo-vagina does, however. Zero Day was being a major autist to concede, though. Bringing up anything about women will cause a great shitshow, that's half the fun.

My own view could be warped, but I wanted a broader consensus. Ms. Congeniality could be seen as a power fantasy and someone could effort post about that if they wanted. I haven't watched it in a while, but a big part of that is contrasting the FBI(?) agent with some of the contestants, who are despite every stereotype you have, are in some cases quite intelligent. Other cases like Twilight it's some NorthWestern Girl finally marrying Sasuke. I hate Wonder Woman mainly because the writers don't get greek myth and usually slide Christian morals onto certain characters where they don't belong, i.e. Hades. I view Wonder Woman as a guys sexual fantasies more than anything because he literally was a cuck for two lesbians.


----------



## glad vlad (Nov 19, 2021)

Not to interrupt the street fight, but I watched a Joan Crawford movie recently that had strong female power fantasy energy.

Johnny Guitar:

“On the outskirts of a wind-swept Arizona cattle town, an aggressive and strong-willed saloonkeeper named Vienna maintains a volatile relationship with the local cattlemen and townsfolk.”

I think calling her “aggressive” isn’t right. Crawford has strong trad female power in this movie, she isn’t aggressive, she’s always standing around on stairs
 smoldering at her enemies.

The movie has a female rival, a posse, a roving musician, and Vienna shoots someone in the head. It has everything. Very exciting woman, Joan Crawford.

To the extent that modern people are confused about the female power fantasy, I think one ought to consider that modern popular culture in general is terrible, a sterile wasteland. Modern popular culture is garbage and so the power fantasies you can see within it are also garbage.


----------



## Dyn (Nov 19, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't have a single X chromosome. Why would you ask me this?


Y is a decayed chromosome with only one crucial gene stored in it. Everything else is in X. Human beings are pretty much incapable of living without at least one X chromosome.


----------



## Idiot Asshole (Nov 19, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> It's also really weird how this isn't the first time someone's indicated that they've fantasized in any capacity about pegging me


It's because they're jokingly saying that they'd tolerate fucking you if it meant you shut the fuck up, you fucking autist


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 19, 2021)

Trombonista said:


> Lol you even think you know what women are thinking when they post.


More like, "that's what you said".


Trombonista said:


> Just take the L and accept that maybe you don't know everything about women.


What horseshit.

Actually state where and how I'm mistaken, whenever I'm mistaken-- I already invited female insight multiple times. You crow about how people "know nothing about women" but never actually contradict any claims made, even when the possibility for contradiction is invited.

You simultaneously revel in supposedly being poorly understood and crap on people when they allegedly misunderstand you.


----------



## Ser Prize (Nov 19, 2021)

The ultimate female power fantasy is a girl who does nothing and gets everything she wants anyways. It's also one where all her petty whims are totally justified.


----------



## mindlessobserver (Nov 19, 2021)

All the penny dreadfuls are female power fantasies. 

Girl meets man who is dangerous*

*Assassin, mercenary, soldier, billionaire ceo, warlord, barbarian, pirate, criminal mastermind

The man is super handsome but cold because**

**prior heart-break, traumatic experience, soul crushing responsibilities

Yet the protagonist is somehow able to Pierce his shell and as consequence gets caught up in his drama that threatens their growing love***

***prior relationship returns and try to take the man back, man's enemies get involved and use protagonist to get at man, something happens to make man try and ignore protagonist

But our protagonist is smart and courageous and perseveres through the obstacles to get her man and change him for the better and they live happily ever after!

Mix various formats together ad finitum.


----------



## MelloYello (Nov 19, 2021)

Peak female power fantasy: Fucking the bad boy who killed your abusive boyfriend.


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 19, 2021)

MelloYello said:


> View attachment 2730999
> 
> Peak female power fantasy: Fucking the bad boy who killed your abusive boyfriend.


That's just the cycle of abuse ending. Men and women will chronically return to abusers.


----------



## The Last Stand (Nov 19, 2021)

glad vlad said:


> Not to interrupt the street fight, but I watched a Joan Crawford movie recently that had strong female power fantasy energy.
> 
> Johnny Guitar:
> 
> ...


You're correct, but I don't like cowboy movies so I'm biased. That said, I'll give it a look because it's Joan Crawford.


----------



## madethistocomment (Nov 19, 2021)

I can't beleive I caused the derailment of a thread by talking about horses of all fucking things.


----------



## Agent Abe Caprine (Nov 19, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> All the penny dreadfuls are female power fantasies.
> 
> Girl meets man who is dangerous*
> 
> ...


TFW you can't find a man as good as Varny the Vampire. Why even bother living?


----------



## Lemmingwise (Nov 19, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> All the penny dreadfuls are female power fantasies.
> 
> Girl meets man who is dangerous*
> 
> ...


I think these are sexual / romantic fantasies more so than power fantasies.



Save Goober said:


> I have the same power fantasies guys do. Also, a lot of these "female power fantasies" are written by guys. This is just another iteration "when men do something it's good and wholesome but when women do it, it's bad"


This, but unironically.



Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't have a single X chromosome. Why would you ask me this?



Guaranteed replies.


----------



## snailslime (Nov 19, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> More like, "that's what you said".
> 
> What horseshit.
> 
> ...


you're not listening to anything the women are saying


----------



## The Spice boi (Nov 19, 2021)

snailslime said:


> you're not listening to anything the women are saying


Everybody knows women don't know what they want and need men to tell them what they like


----------



## Unflushable Turd (Nov 19, 2021)

I think the closest thing to a 'female power fantasy' is revenge.

I've always felt really invested and energized by movies/books where the female character has some crime committed against her/her family, she suffers for the majority of the story but then gets back at her enemies in the most ruthless way.

- Lumen in "Dexter" hunts down her rapists one by one, kills them and then moves on with her life with no more 'darkness'
- Shosanna in "Inglourious Basterds" gathers all the Nazis in her movie theater, lights a match and burns the fuck out of them
- Grace in "Ready of Not" wins the horrific game of hide and seek and explodes her devil-worshipping in-laws

(these are probably not the best examples but what comes to mind)

It's so cathartic to see these women get righteously angry and then come out on top of a fucked up situation. Especially if you've experienced sexual violence and you never had the ability to report it, or you've been called hysterical or ignored, it just feels nice to live vicariously through these fictional women who gave these motherfuckers what they deserved


----------



## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 19, 2021)

madethistocomment said:


> I can't beleive I caused the derailment of a thread by talking about horses of all fucking things.


I mean that's partially by design. This can never be an honest conversation.


----------



## A Welsh Cake (Nov 19, 2021)

Dating me.


----------



## Zero Day Defense (Nov 19, 2021)

snailslime said:


> you're not listening to anything the women are saying


Demonstrably false, unless we're talking about that vague sense of "being heard".


----------



## Rapechu (Nov 20, 2021)

MelloYello said:


> Peak female power fantasy: Fucking the bad boy who killed your abusive boyfriend.


Peak female power fantasy: using makeups and filters to hide your ugly appearance


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## Dyn (Nov 20, 2021)

Unflushable Turd said:


> I think the closest thing to a 'female power fantasy' is revenge.


Revenge porn is it's own genre and isn't really gendered, for every "I spit on your grave" there's at least a "Death wish" or two.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 20, 2021)

Dyn said:


> Revenge porn is it's own genre and isn't really gendered, for every "I spit on your grave" there's at least a "Death wish" or two.


How significant would you say it is that the former example you gave involves one seeking revenge for a wrong committed against them, whereas the latter involves one seeking revenge for a wrong committed against their loved ones? Or that the latter example (from what I understand) seems to bring the man to a point where he becomes a monster himself, whereas the former example doesn't?

I recall the premise of _Kill Bill_ being that the woman is seeking revenge not only for herself but for the attempt they made on her and her unborn child's lives, but I'm not sure if that counts as revenge porn _per se._


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## Dyn (Nov 20, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> How significant would you say it is that the former example you gave involves one seeking revenge for a wrong committed against them, whereas the latter involves one seeking revenge for a wrong committed against their loved ones?


That's usually how it goes because people are uncomfortable sympathizing with male rape victims and there's not really much else that can be done to setup a revenge movie that leaves a dude alive.

The only male protagonist I can think of in a revenge movie that isn't all about his wife or kids getting got is Payback, and that's because the Parker character is a psychopath with completely antisocial motivations that we're not supposed to sympathise with.


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## mindlessobserver (Nov 20, 2021)

Dyn said:


> That's usually how it goes because people are uncomfortable sympathizing with male rape victims and there's not really much else that can be done to setup a revenge movie that leaves a dude alive.
> 
> The only male protagonist I can think of in a revenge movie that isn't all about his wife or kids getting got is Payback, and that's because the Parker character is a psychopath with completely antisocial motivations that we're not supposed to sympathise with.


What about John Wick? He wanted revenge for his doggo


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 20, 2021)

Dyn said:


> That's usually how it goes because people are uncomfortable sympathizing with male rape victims


They're _uncomfortable _with that_?_ I just thought people at large either didn't care much on a superficial level (generally when the rapist is another man) or consider the man some kind of "lucky" (if the rapist is a woman).

But, aside from what @mindlessobserver said, there's plenty of things that you can do to a man himself to prompt revenge that leaves him alive-- you can even just _nearly_ kill him.


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## Deodar (Nov 30, 2021)

I apologize in advance for the necro but binging through this thread I earnestly think it should be retitled "Watch ZeroDayDefense & Mysticlord sperg about being cucked by horses or something" or maybe even "debate zerodaydefnese about his female power fantasy theories" would be a more accurate title for this thread.  Watching these two insist on that "the universal female power fantasy is to be a hole for hot guys/horses/bears and all contrary opinions are a cope" has been fantastic.  
As an aside, there are plenty of women in the farms. Could have been easier to just make a thread asking directly, but then the tread wouldn't be half as interesting, I guess.


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## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 30, 2021)

Deodar said:


> I apologize in advance for the necro but binging through this thread I earnestly think it should be retitled "Watch ZeroDayDefense & Mysticlord sperg about being cucked by horses or something" or maybe even "debate zerodaydefnese about his female power fantasy theories" would be a more accurate title for this thread.  Watching these two insist on that "the universal female power fantasy is to be a hole for hot guys/horses/bears and all contrary opinions are a cope" has been fantastic.
> As an aside, there are plenty of women in the farms. Could have been easier to just make a thread asking directly, but then the tread wouldn't be half as interesting, I guess.


Again, half the fun of asking loaded question is watching people sperg out. I usually do it on Reddit because then you'll get troons answering questions like they are women. 

Side note, what is the gender disparity on the farms? This is partially a gossip forum so I assume maybe like a quarter of users max and a minimum of ten percent are women.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 30, 2021)

Deodar said:


> Watching these two insist on that "the universal female power fantasy is to be a hole for hot guys/horses/bears and all contrary opinions are a cope" has been fantastic.


Bath salt trips definitely sound "fantastic". Unfortunately, like at least half your description, none of what you're seeing in them is happening in real life.



BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> Side note, what is the gender disparity on the farms? This is *partially *a gossip forum


There are no girls on the internet You largely answered your question, already. This is _partially_ a gossip forum. Putting that aside, it's not tailored towards women like, say, PULL was. Most subjects here presumably aren't that interesting to women at large, or they don't circulate in "zones" wherein women take particular interest.


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## BeepBoopBeepBoop (Nov 30, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> There are no girls on the internet You largely answered your question, already. This is _partially_ a gossip forum. Putting that aside, it's not tailored towards women like, say, PULL was. Most subjects here presumably aren't that interesting to women at large, or they don't circulate in "zones" wherein women take particular interest.


I find it hilarious that you think women don't want to come to the farms for gossip. Women and teenage girls want the down and dirty on ecelebs more than actual celebs from what I've seen. Hollywood can manufacture stars all they want, but you can't lead a horse to water on every Jewish guy like you used to.


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## Bunny Tracks (Nov 30, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Bath salt trips definitely sound "fantastic". Unfortunately, like at least half your description, none of what you're seeing in them is happening in real life.


So, half the pages in this thread aren't you, and that other fag rambling about how women secretly want to be railed by animals?


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 30, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> I find it hilarious that you think women don't want to come to the farms for gossip.


I don't think that they don't want to come to Kiwi Farms for _gossip._

I think they don't want to come to _Kiwi Farms_ for gossip.

Firstly, it's Kiwi Farms. Secondly, there are plenty other places both on- and off-line they could and would talk gossip for anything, and the fact that KF has an inherently masculine "color" reinforces the orientation of its culture towards the masculine rather than the feminine-- versus other places that have an inherently feminine "color" that do the same but for femininity (again, like PULL when it was online).


Bunny Tracks said:


> So, half the pages in this thread aren't you, and that other fag rambling about how women want to railed by animals?


Inasmuch as you're talking about me? Yes.

I feel as if I need to quote myself to demonstrate that, but it'd be wasteful to do that with someone who doesn't care about properly representing others, and I wouldn't have to do it with someone who _does._


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## slimes (Nov 30, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't think that they don't want to come to Kiwi Farms for _gossip._
> 
> I think they don't want to come to _Kiwi Farms_ for gossip.
> 
> ...



Zero you sound retarded right here dude. The Kawaii forum theme is fuckin purple and most of the denizens of Beauty Parlor are women. If you aren’t using dark mode you’re a faggot and the forum doesn’t look masculine OR feminine it looks inherently neutral. You’re projecting masculine properties where they don’t exist.

There is most likely a greater number of men on the forum, but the color of the fuckin thing ain’t why.


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## Zero Day Defense (Nov 30, 2021)

slimes said:


> Zero you sound retarded right here dude. The Kawaii forum theme is fuckin purple and most of the denizens of Beauty Parlor are women


1) The person I'm responding to asked about a _gender disparity._ In my response, at no point do I (seriously) suggest that there *no *women here. However, I explain why there would be more men here versus women-- the subjects largely appeal more to men. Simple.

2) I am not referring to literal color schemes, or else I wouldn't have put "color" in quotation marks. I'm referring to the style of interactions had here.

I don't deny that how I worded that was ambiguous, but then fucking _ask _why I put "color" in quotes (I would sound like a caviar-eater if I wasn't trying to drive at something else) if you thought I was talking about the theme, don't assume I don't know anything about theme selection, and pay attention to me not denying that there are women on this site while saying elsewhere that _most_ subjects here wouldn't appeal to women.


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## Suburban Bastard (Nov 30, 2021)

Sage In All Fields said:


> there is no female power fantasy, only female submission fantasies, women are not meant to have power





wtfNeedSignUp said:


> In a more civilized times it would be being a mother married to a good man. Nowadays it's basically being a massive bitch that doesn't work or socialize yet is always the biggest person in the room, which can be described as the male power fantasy only without the "improving your environment" it commonly has.


wizchan bot was a nice addition to the site


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## slimes (Nov 30, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> 1) The person I'm responding to asked about a _gender disparity._ In my response, at no point do I (seriously) suggest that there *no *women here. However, I explain why there would be more men here versus women-- the subjects largely appeal more to men. Simple.
> 
> 2) I am not referring to literal color schemes, or else I wouldn't have put "color" in quotation marks. I'm referring to the style of interactions had here.
> 
> I don't deny that how I worded that was ambiguous, but then fucking _ask _why I put "color" in quotes (I would sound like a caviar-eater if I wasn't trying to drive at something else) if you thought I was talking about the theme, don't assume I don't know anything about theme selection, and pay attention to me not denying that there are women on this site while saying elsewhere that _most_ subjects here wouldn't appeal to women.



If you wanted to be clear you would have been. You demand that people ask you to clarify points, possibly in order to attempt to force them into a debate with you, rather than explaining in a way that is easy to understand in the first place. 

It's absolutely easy to have misunderstood what you said because places like PULL are legitimately designed to look more appealing to their female userbase with the hearts and such that they employ in the themes. 

'ask me' 'pay attention to me' 'don't assume things' 

Then stop obfuscating your language and coming off like the human embodiment of fedora energy.


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## awoo (Nov 30, 2021)

Don't Tread on Me said:


> r/FemaleDatingStrategy
> 
> 
> r/FemaleDatingStrategy: The only dating subreddit exclusively for women! We focus on effective dating strategies for women who want to take control …
> ...


Is this sub just bitter undateable women like femcels?


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## Deodar (Dec 1, 2021)

You guys should just kiss already. Quit blueballing the people and give us what we want!


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## Don't Tread on Me (Dec 1, 2021)

awoo said:


> Is this sub just bitter undateable women like femcels?


Bitter undateable women that think they're god's gift to men.


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## Zero Day Defense (Dec 1, 2021)

slimes said:


> You demand that people ask you to clarify points, possibly in order to attempt to force them into a debate with you,


Aye, you got me. Me using weak wording wasn't me having a lack of better word or phrase for what I was trying to drive at, at the time. It was _actually _me deliberately muddying my language in a bid to force you or anyone else into a (completely and invariably) optional debate about color schemes... _just so I could tell you that I was *actually *referring to the way people interact with each other here and how it attracts men more._.. after being challenged about an assertion I made about what gossip subject interests that women would gravitate towards not readily being found here.

Talking about color schemes apropos of nothing, without even mentioning specific colors_,_ certainly sounds like something I would waste time on. That's why you never addressed what colors I was saying a certain sex was more attracted to, and not because I didn't mention any.

And it's certainly not like _I_ do what I'm asking of you with you or anyone else-- after all, I'm _so very interested_ in wasting time responding to complete misrepresentations of arguments.


slimes said:


> 'don't assume things'


Yes. Don't simultaneously assume I know about changing color schemes but _don't_ know about a specific color scheme in plain view in the selection table. Or that I think the color purple is feminine when it's historically been used by royalty, clergy, and pimps.



slimes said:


> Then stop obfuscating your language


Your inability to follow a conversation (that you weren't originally a part of-- not that there's a problem in you joining, in and of itself) because you were preoccupied with an easy chance to call me retarded isn't me being obfuscatory. Or should I understand this advice as "English, please?!" The rest of the sentence made me think you meant that, at first.


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## Dumb Bitch Smoothie (Dec 1, 2021)

As a woman my female power fantasy is going to sleep at a reasonable hour.

Anyway continue sperging bye


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## Firetruck9000 (Dec 1, 2021)

In order to answer this question I compiled answers from TRUE and HONEST women in this thread:

Bayonetta: 3
Same as men: 1
Some old 50s movie actor: 1
Owning their own home and everyone leaving them the fuck alone: 1
Patrolling their own farm with their hot aryan husband: 1
For men to stop making dumb threads: 1
To not be asked retarded questions: 1
Everyone adoring her appearance: 1
Sleeping at a reasonable hour: 1

The science is settled folks.


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## HullDown (Dec 1, 2021)

Firetruck9000 said:


> In order to answer this question I compiled answers from TRUE and HONEST women in this thread:
> 
> Bayonetta: 3
> Same as men: 1
> ...



Once you put them all together, a question comes to mind:* Is Sarah Palin the ultimate female power fantasy?* Inspiration for Bayonetta, powerful politician (a typically male career), has a retro aesthetic for her clothes and hair, owns her home and rural land, had a fairly good looking white husband who never made stupid statements to the press or asked dumb questions, she was appreciated for her looks enough that pornstars started imitating her, and she seems like she gets 8 hours to sleep every night.


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## snailslime (Dec 1, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Aye, you got me. Me using weak wording wasn't me having a lack of better word or phrase for what I was trying to drive at, at the time. It was _actually _me deliberately muddying my language in a bid to force you or anyone else into a (completely and invariably) optional debate about color schemes... _just so I could tell you that I was *actually *referring to the way people interact with each other here and how it attracts men more._.. after being challenged about an assertion I made about what gossip subject interests that women would gravitate towards not readily being found here.
> 
> Talking about color schemes apropos of nothing, without even mentioning specific colors_,_ certainly sounds like something I would waste time on. That's why you never addressed what colors I was saying a certain sex was more attracted to, and not because I didn't mention any.
> 
> ...


you need help


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## The Last Stand (Dec 1, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I don't deny that how I worded that was ambiguous, but then fucking _ask _why I put "color" in quotes (I would sound like a caviar-eater if I wasn't trying to drive at something else) if you thought I was talking about the theme, don't assume I don't know anything about theme selection, and pay attention to me not denying that there are women on this site while saying elsewhere that _most_ subjects here wouldn't appeal to women.


There's a literal section on here ABOUT women. The Beauty Parlor. Even so, this site's main purpose is to laugh at exceptionalism on the Internet. (At least, I hope that's still the case even with A&N.) Females like to laugh as well as males.


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## Zero Day Defense (Dec 1, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> There's a literal section on here ABOUT women.


I wasn't aware that the Beauty Parlor housed most of the site's lolcows.


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## The Last Stand (Dec 1, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> I wasn't aware that the Beauty Parlor housed most of the site's lolcows.


Not all of them. There's a description of which lolcow would be suitable for Beauty Parlor. It's literally there for you to find out for yourself.


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## Niggernerd (Dec 1, 2021)

According to the bestest candidate for president, mr.boinie sandahs its rape because empowerment or something


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## DiggieSmalls (Dec 1, 2021)

Being able to fist yourself is a female power play they pull all the time. Women always brag about fisting themselves.


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## Zero Day Defense (Dec 1, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> Not all of them.


Not _most _of them.


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## The Husbando Collector (Dec 1, 2021)

Niggernerd said:


> According to the bestest candidate for president, mr.boinie sandahs its rape because empowerment or something


Leave it to an out of touch old man who's also a dirty socialist to say that the ultimate way of humiliation and taking someone's bodily autonomy is actually empowering.


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## Fougaro (Dec 1, 2021)

BeepBoopBeepBoop said:


> Side note, what is the gender disparity on the farms?


Half of the users here are dudes, the other half are G.I.R.L.s and stunning and brave True and Honest women.


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## Mr Snek (Dec 1, 2021)

A womans power fantasy is to be the center of attention in any situation.


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## Bunny Tracks (Dec 1, 2021)

Zero Day Defense said:


> Not _most _of them.


Who cares? Why are you so obsessed with absolutes?

Christ, you have some of the worst black-and-white thinking I've ever seen.


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## Zero Day Defense (Dec 1, 2021)

Bunny Tracks said:


> Why are you so obsessed with absolutes?


>make clear that there are exceptions through use of qualifiers
>"yo why are you so obsessed with absolutes?"

Fuck off.


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## Dyn (Dec 2, 2021)

The Last Stand said:


> Even so, this site's main purpose is to laugh at exceptionalism on the Internet. (At least, I hope that's still the case even with A&N.)


A&N's main purpose is to give us exceptionalism to laugh at.


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## AMHOLIO (Dec 2, 2021)

Women's power fantasy is like doom eternal but the doom slayer is a chick and after the end we have a management sim for rebuilding earth, like stardew valley crossed with sim city.   We can't get enough of that shit.  

Chicks like kicking ass but we also like making sure everyone of our social group is doing alright along with money to do whatever dumb shit we want with.  It isn't too different than guys aside from more customizing and lame romance scenes, so basically men but gayer.


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## cybertoaster (Dec 2, 2021)

AMHOLIO said:


> Chicks like kicking ass but we also like making sure everyone of our social group is doing alright


Never seen that, every chick I knew had some grudge with another chick and if said chick was going through a rough time the other would be literally glowing from the schadenfreude.


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## AMHOLIO (Dec 2, 2021)

cybertoaster said:


> Never seen that, every chick I knew had some grudge with another chick and if said chick was going through a rough time the other would be literally glowing from the schadenfreude.


There's definitely chicks like that, but more of us have lady friends and lady family we like, along with male friends and male family we like.  It depends on who you hang out with and how the chick is raised.

And tbf, this entire forum is based on schadenfreude.  I have not seen a kiwi who hasn't laughed at someone of their fellow gender getting tossed under the bus (or not of their gender).  Men get their spite out differently than women sometimes, but this forum is proof we all have that bitch  we hate.  Just look at the sausage fest of the Darksydephil forum.

I think irl men can settle their differences more directly since chicks are expected to settle conflict indirectly or bear it, not all the time but most woman fear becoming social pariahs.  Idk how much men fear it as compared to women, but women will use it on other women more.  Women might have more built up anger because it looks worse than men when we scream or insult other people, like no one wants to be the crazy chick (aside from attention whores).  So some of us take it out passively.   Even then, a lot of us have other women friends and family we genuinely like, love, and talk to, and even if we focus all our energy on this bitch:tm: the people we like we like to help.  Probably something similar for men.


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## Law (Dec 2, 2021)

Humans figure out how to reproduce via parthenogenesis, and there are no men anywhere.


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## AMHOLIO (Dec 2, 2021)

Law said:


> Humans figure out how to reproduce via parthenogenesis, and there are no men anywhere.


SHHH DON'T REVEAL OUR PLANS

This is the future troons want tbh, except they still can breed with the femoids with their cocks and amholes and all other males are dead or converted.


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## Temporarybeing (Dec 3, 2021)

All the attention and stuff and adoration yet also be considered bad ass and strong


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## biozeminadae1 (Feb 20, 2022)

Complete social, economic and sexual dominance over all males regardless of class, intelligence, happiness. That's the ultimate power fantasy for women - subjugation of all male desires.

Men not having rights, which makes them inhuman or sub-human, and women are unique for being human and for being women.

Even founding myths or cultural/natural heroes in patriarchal societies share their power with women, by making them their brides or partners. There is no equivalent for the opposite in any culture that I've read about.



Law said:


> Humans figure out how to reproduce via parthenogenesis, and there are no men anywhere.


Absolutely, lesbians love this shit.


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## TheBigZee (Feb 24, 2022)

Talked to a bunch of women about this because it was interesting. Their version of power fantasy is almost the same as the male power fantasy. Ultimately you address an unfairness or wrong. The difference is the means - None of the women I talked to fantasized about violence. They wanted everyone to listen and go along with them because they were popular, persuasive, confident, and smart. People might wind up ostracized in the female power fantasy, but they're less likely to wind up seriously injured or dead than in my imagining a similar situation in a way that feels most just.


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## Crystal Coomer (Feb 25, 2022)

A woman's power fantasy will involve safety from hazards, wisdom to achieve results efficiently and quickly, and bodily health to live a long life. 

I don't associate social aspects with power fantasy because not everyone wants to be social. Sometimes power fantasy is overcoming your own insecurities and nature's obstacles or restrictions.


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## Akumaten (Feb 25, 2022)

Giant Robots.

Chicks dig Giant Robots.


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## Jimmy Olsen (Mar 3, 2022)

I want to be stronger than men while never having to work out or watch my diet and get pussy 24/7 with zero effort.


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## Skitarii (Aug 2, 2022)

GOTIS


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## Flan Handler (Aug 3, 2022)

Like Twilight, most female-targeted YA fiction (BIRM) is kind of like this:

Female is just amazing enough (defined vaguely so the reader can identify with the protagonist) to attract the attention of at least two incredibly attractive men. She then spends the rest of the series trying to decide between sexy cad and boring, completely devoted potential mate. 

Resolution comes when her amazingness tames the cad into an obedient provider, and somehow the group saves the world kind of to the side of this drama.


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## Amphotericin B (Aug 3, 2022)

Most women don’t have power fantasies. They have fantasies about being financially comfortable and at peace, and about being independent but desired. They don’t usually want to have power over others the way men do. 

Women and men are meant to compliment each other, not compete, so it’s not a bad thing that women are less ambitious in that respect.


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## Penrowe (Aug 3, 2022)

Flan Handler said:


> Like Twilight, most female-targeted YA fiction (BIRM) is kind of like this:
> 
> Female is just amazing enough (defined vaguely so the reader can identify with the protagonist) to attract the attention of at least two incredibly attractive men. She then spends the rest of the series trying to decide between sexy cad and boring, completely devoted potential mate.
> 
> Resolution comes when her amazingness tames the cad into an obedient provider, and somehow the group saves the world kind of to the side of this drama.


Precisely this. Women crave being dominated physically while holding ultimate power through their ability to control men's emotions.


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