# Worthless degrees



## TopCat (Aug 14, 2016)

Some university degrees such as film/media studies, advertising, philosophy and communications are often branded as being worthless and without any purpose. Media studies in particular is a subject which is often branded as 'pointless', owing to the lack of opportunities at the end of the degree and the lack of skills obtained during it.

Therefore, I would be interested to know which degrees you all think are worthless and the reasons for this.


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## LulzKiller (Aug 14, 2016)

Gender studies.


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## feedtheoctopus (Aug 14, 2016)

Mine


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## Charles Morgenstern (Aug 14, 2016)

Studio art has to be one of the most useless degrees out there. Unless there is a lucrative ceramics and sculpting market out there that I've never noticed before.


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## polonium (Aug 14, 2016)

Anything that doesn't teach you how to think critically.
If you come out of university and all you can do is scream RAPE, RAPE, BIGOT, CLIMATE DENIAR at people but not articulate why you disagree, and if disagreement makes you just want to hide in the safe space and block them on twitter, then it was definitely worthless.


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## Ebola (Aug 14, 2016)

Having a philosophy major is usually worthless in terms of leading to a job, but at least it's proof you're smarter than the majority of the population. As for other liberal arts majors, a lot are useless and some can be profitable, but just depends on you and your location.


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## AnOminous (Aug 14, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Having a philosophy major is usually worthless in terms of leading to a job, but at least it's proof you're smarter than the majority of the population. As for other liberal arts majors, a lot are useless and some can be profitable, but just depends on you and your location.



Many of these degrees are only good if you are among the few who can actually enter an academic career or go on to get some other degree afterwards.  They're only somewhat more likely to lead to a lucrative career than, I suppose, thinking you're going to go into college basketball and end up an NBA star.

Most of the people getting these degrees are being sold a bill of goods to subsidize the careers of overpaid useless professors who do nothing outside their ivory tower.


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## DZ 305 (Aug 14, 2016)

Political science. Especially in this day and age. Pundits helped hasten that deathmarch


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## polonium (Aug 15, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Having a philosophy major is usually worthless in terms of leading to a job, but at least it's proof you're smarter than the majority of the population. As for other liberal arts majors, a lot are useless and some can be profitable, but just depends on you and your location.


lol a philosophy degree is proof of no such thing


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## millais (Aug 15, 2016)

All the social sciences like psychology, sociology, and that ilk.

Also some of the "softer" hard sciences. Don't want to denigrate the biology and life sciences people too much, but if you don't go on to post-undergraduate studies or professional training, it's a relatively worthless degree compared to the engineering and info/comp sci degrees that everyone clever got. Like I have a sinking feeling that my molecular/cell biology degree is going to be pretty useless on its own when it comes down to the job market.


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## ERROR_ENTRY (Aug 15, 2016)

The only point of going to college is to get a degree that will get you a job, and no other reason. Degrees like Communications, Liberal arts etc. are worthless because the employment opportunities for them aren't very good at all, and the info you learn from them can be easily gotten from the internet, libraries and more.

Why spend tens of thousands and years on your life on something you can learn for free? Hell, a lot of universities post their reading lists online, just download their lists and get the books yourself. College is essentially a scam, you'd be shocked at how much the higher ups at these places make.


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## BatNapalm (Aug 15, 2016)

I always say to people, ask yourself two questions when considering a major:
1.) Does it teach you a specific skill (i.e. not a general one like writing or speaking or "language skills")?
2.) Are there any jobs ads within a 100+ mile radius of where you are right now that specifically require a 4-year degree in this particular major?

That alone should weed out plenty of worthless degrees.


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## Innocuous (Aug 15, 2016)

I wouldn't know, because I'm studying criminal justice like a person with a future in mind.


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## Pikimon (Aug 15, 2016)

millais said:


> All the social sciences like psychology, sociology, and that ilk.
> 
> Also some of the "softer" hard sciences. Don't want to denigrate the biology and life sciences people too much, but if you don't go on to post-undergraduate studies or professional training, it's a relatively worthless degree compared to the engineering and info/comp sci degrees that everyone clever got. Like I have a sinking feeling that my molecular/cell biology degree is going to be pretty useless on its own when it comes down to the job market.



In my University all the Psych majors are being pushed by the department into going into I/O Psych or pursue medical degrees. Everyone else is urged to use their Psych degree as a way to become Market Analysis people or people who deal with statistics.

A Psych degree is as useful as the person who earned it, sadly lots of people don't expand their opportunities and end up as standard paper-pushers.


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## Positron (Aug 15, 2016)

Anything with "studies" in its title.
Anything that teaches postmodernism.


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## moonman1488 (Aug 15, 2016)

Bachelors in psychology. You need a doctorate to do anything in the field. Most people I've met with a bachelors worked at Target or something similarly menial.


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## clowney (Aug 15, 2016)

I forget what thread it was in but someone said you could get a bachelors in *fanfiction *now. I weep.


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## DZ 305 (Aug 15, 2016)

clowney said:


> I forget what thread it was in but someone said you could get a bachelors in *fanfiction *now. I weep.


Some universities offer courses in fucking Klingon, so I'm not that shocked.


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## Ruin (Aug 15, 2016)

Legatus Lanius said:


> Political science. Especially in this day and age. Pundits helped hasten that deathmarch



Political Science and Philosophy are really good areas of study if you want to attend law school.


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## DZ 305 (Aug 15, 2016)

Ruin said:


> Political Science and Philosophy are really good areas of study if you want to attend law school.


But the market for a lot of lawyers in America is oversaturated


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## Ruin (Aug 15, 2016)

Legatus Lanius said:


> But the market for a lot of lawyers in America is oversaturated



An extremely valid point but I'm just pointing out at least they have more practical applications as opposed to say gender studies.


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## AA 102 (Aug 15, 2016)

Women's Studies, pretty much every music degree, and English.


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## Innocuous (Aug 15, 2016)

It just depends on how a person utilizes a degree. An engineering degree is worthless if the person who earned it does nothing with it.


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## Ebola (Aug 15, 2016)

polonium said:


> lol a philosophy degree is proof of no such thing



Yes, let's just ignore the pesky fact that the more exposed to philosophy people are, the more successful they are at math, expression, creativity, logic, comprehension, empathy, debate, language, critical thinking; and the more likely they are to outperform others both in scientific careers and life in general -- not to mention they are far less prone to fall prey to manipulation, tinfoil hat theories, scams and mind-viruses like social justice. One can even go as far as to say that teaching people philosophy reduces autistic tendencies and sociopathy, and forces people realize that they are not special snowflakes who deserve everything without work.


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## BatNapalm (Aug 15, 2016)

Innocuous Banter said:


> I wouldn't know, because I'm studying criminal justice like a person with a future in mind.



A dude I went to highschool with has a criminal justice degree and last I checked, he's a security guard at a casino...


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## Ruin (Aug 15, 2016)

BatNapalm said:


> A dude I went to highschool with has a criminal justice degree and last I checked, he's a security guard at a casino...



To be the job market is horrible right now. There's an enormous labor surplus.


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## polonium (Aug 15, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Yes, let's just ignore the pesky fact that the more exposed to philosophy people are, the more successful they are at math, expression, creativity, logic, comprehension, empathy, debate, language, critical thinking; and the more likely they are to outperform others both in scientific careers and life in general -- not to mention they are far less prone to fall prey to manipulation, tinfoil hat theories, scams and mind-viruses like social justice. One can even go as far as to say that teaching people philosophy reduces autistic tendencies and sociopathy, and forces people realize that they are not special snowflakes who deserve everything without work.


At least they can reflect on WHY you want fries with that.

E: In a non-sarcastic answer that goes back to my original point about critical thinking. It's about the paucity of critical thinking skills found in other degrees and not really the inherent superiority of philosophy degrees. If you come out of a degree course thinking you're smarter than everyone else, then it was a huge failure.


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## Zeorus (Aug 15, 2016)

dannyfrickenp said:


> Women's Studies, *pretty much every music degree*, and English.



This is untrue. A lot of people with music degrees are able to find employment - it just takes hard work.


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## AA 102 (Aug 15, 2016)

Zeorus said:


> This is untrue. A lot of people with music degrees are able to find employment - it just takes hard work.



I was speaking mainly from experience. I know a few people who have music degrees, only one has stable work and the others complain about a lack of work. This goes for their friends as well.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Aug 15, 2016)

Art History
Metaphysics
Theatre
Fine Arts from anywhere, especially Sarah Lawerence.


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## Innocuous (Aug 15, 2016)

BatNapalm said:


> A dude I went to highschool with has a criminal justice degree and last I checked, he's a security guard at a casino...



There's nothing wrong with private security. It can be a good starting job for someone with that degree.


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## BatNapalm (Aug 15, 2016)

Innocuous Banter said:


> There's nothing wrong with private security. It can be a good starting job for someone with that degree.



It's a $13-14/hr job that doesn't specifically require a criminal justice degree and he has like six figures of student loan debt (and he's been there for years).  But I digress.

Also, what is the consensus on film studies degrees that aren't from a film school? Or film schools in general? It seems like now, in the era of youtube, it'd be almost better to study film on your own and just make random shitty movies and learn that way, rather than pay out the ass for film school tuition in the hopes that you _might _make industry connections but I guess it's not for me to say.


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## Wallace (Aug 15, 2016)

millais said:


> Also some of the "softer" hard sciences. Don't want to denigrate the biology and life sciences people too much, but if you don't go on to post-undergraduate studies or professional training, it's a relatively worthless degree compared to the engineering and info/comp sci degrees that everyone clever got. Like I have a sinking feeling that my molecular/cell biology degree is going to be pretty useless on its own when it comes down to the job market.



Funny you should mention that. I was talking to a recruiter today, with a PhD in biology. After a year unemployed to take care of his triplets, no one in biotech would hire him again. Even with the advanced degree and experience, he was deemed "too stale" after just a year out of work. He spent three years bagging groceries to make ends meet. Turns out the doctorate makes you less employable, not more.



Pikimon said:


> A Psych degree is as useful as the person who earned it, sadly lots of people don't expand their opportunities and end up as standard paper-pushers.



There's my sister's degree. She's a caterer.


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## Innocuous (Aug 15, 2016)

BatNapalm said:


> It's a $13-14/hr job that doesn't specifically require a criminal justice degree and he has like six figures of student loan debt (and he's been there for years).  But I digress.
> 
> Also, what is the consensus on film studies degrees that aren't from a film school? Or film schools in general? It seems like now, in the era of youtube, it'd be almost better to study film on your own and just make random shitty movies and learn that way, rather than pay out the ass for film school tuition in the hopes that you _might _make industry connections but I guess it's not for me to say.



Don't bash private security or criminal justice just cause your friend's retarded, lol

I knew this idiot that went to film school and now regrets the entire thing, and he's depressed and shit. He showed what he made to me and it was terrible. He had bad taste in film as well.


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## ObeseScreamingBlackMan (Aug 15, 2016)

Ruin said:


> To be the job market is horrible right now. There's an enormous labor surplus.



Meanwhile the skilled trades are fucking desperate for people.  The combination of all the old trades guys/journeymen retiring and every kid going to college after being told by everyone that a 4-year degree from SixPack State U would propel them right into the ivory towers and that trade jobs are for the plebs.

But I need to buy coffee regularly so I'm glad this country churns out so many college-educated Starbucks employees.


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## The Giver (Aug 16, 2016)

Huh, this is quite the honeypot.

Only thing I'll say is that some degrees in undergrad are worth a lot more/less depending on what you plan to do post undergrad. For instance, let's say we have two students, A and B. Student A majors in Physics, while Student B majors in Philosophy. Conventional wisdom says that Student A made a better choice and that Student B got a worthless degree.

However, lets suppose Student A goes into theoretical research in grad school -- String Theory, Loop Quantum Gravity, that sort of thing. And, lets further suppose Student B goes to law school. Now, suddenly, the philosophy student looks to have a much better job outlook than the physics student, since the physics student has firmly committed to working in education/academia.  I guess the upshot I am going for here is that pretty much any degree _can_ be a good choice depending on your goals and how smartly you use that degree.

Except Gender Studies. You are literally always going to be better off doing Literature, Philosophy, or Sociology (etc.) and just writing your thesis on some gender bullshit.


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## BatNapalm (Aug 16, 2016)

Legatus Lanius said:


> But the market for a lot of lawyers in America is oversaturated



I do think it's largely because everyone who graduated with a worthless degree went "OOOPS BACKUP PLAN!" when they couldn't find a halfway decent job and hastily decided that law school was their backup plan. Hence, a glut of people with law degrees.


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## Ebola (Aug 16, 2016)

polonium said:


> At least they can reflect on WHY you want fries with that.
> 
> E: In a non-sarcastic answer that goes back to my original point about critical thinking. It's about the paucity of critical thinking skills found in other degrees and not really the inherent superiority of philosophy degrees. If you come out of a degree course thinking you're smarter than everyone else, then it was a huge failure.



We are already inching towards a society where everything from burger flipping jobs to scientists and psychologist and doctors will be replaced by machines. Like I admitted, philosophy alone doesn't do you much in terms of finding work, but philosophy in combination with other studies or jobs, whatever they may be, enhances educational and occupational success, meaning  also having a degree in philosophy is much more likely to attract the attention of a worthy employer than one in Africkan studies. As for people with experience in philosophy being smarter than the general public, that's just my opinion, but there is evidence is suggesting it does give people a lot of edges in various environments.

Look, I really hate resorting to personal examples like these, but the school I went to was mostly composed of middle to upper-class whites in an area where most people were white with a high rate of employment and a lot of  high-paying jobs. My first philosophy class had a similar composition. Despite this, 80-90% of the students consistently failed to grasp basic concepts such as the difference between "is" and "ought," and "should" and "ought to," and how it related to communication/meaning, or  LITERALLY thought the professor was trying to convince the class we were all brains in vats. *If this is the best we can do, it's no wonder why the Western world is infested with carcinogenic parasites!*


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## Zeorus (Aug 16, 2016)

The Giver said:


> Except Gender Studies. You are literally always going to be better off doing Literature, Philosophy, or Sociology (etc.) and just writing your thesis on some gender bullshit.



I'd agree with this on the basis that while gender studies does have a certain degree of usefulness for those of us in academia (especially in interdisciplinary fields like cultural history, musicology or other humanities), it isn't by itself particularly useful. It's something that a lot of humanities scholars will dabble in but until recently it was relatively rare for somebody to make it their primary area of research.


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## moonman1488 (Aug 16, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Yes, let's just ignore the pesky fact that the more exposed to philosophy people are, the more successful they are at math, expression, creativity, logic, comprehension, empathy, debate, language, critical thinking; and the more likely they are to outperform others both in scientific careers and life in general -- not to mention they are far less prone to fall prey to manipulation, tinfoil hat theories, scams and mind-viruses like social justice. One can even go as far as to say that teaching people philosophy reduces autistic tendencies and sociopathy, and forces people realize that they are not special snowflakes who deserve everything without work.



I dunno my philosophy professor was a fucking vindictive idiot.


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## The Giver (Aug 16, 2016)

Zeorus said:


> I'd agree with this on the basis that while gender studies does have a certain degree of usefulness for those of us in academia (especially in interdisciplinary fields like cultural history, musicology or other humanities), it isn't by itself particularly useful. It's something that a lot of humanities scholars will dabble in but until recently it was relatively rare for somebody to make it their primary area of research.


Yeah, I think it is totally legitimate for an academic to focus on gender issues; lord knows that stuff is publishable.

My issue with Gender Studies, as a stand alone discipline, is that it ironically enough doesn't add anything to the scholarly discussion of gender. There are lots of very intelligent folks in fields as diverse as biology, ethics, sociology, literature, cultural history, anthropology, epistemology, neuroscience, and psychology all doing work on gender issues. And all of these folks in all these fields have their own specialization -- some unique, useful contribution to add -- while still being able to keep an eye on the broader discussion. Which, at the end of the day, is what good scholarship is all about.

Gender studies, by contrast, amounts to selectively reading a narrow slice of the literature in all these fields, mastering none of those fields, and thus not having the necessary expertise to contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way. I suppose the argument is that they study the "big picture" of gender, but I would hazard a guess that a cultural historian, or a philosopher, or a scientist who spends years of their life working on gender can see the big picture too. Which makes Gender Studies not just shitty from a pragmatic job-focused perspective, but also shitty from a purely academic one.


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## John Titor (Aug 16, 2016)

Anything in art but in the sense that they are not magical tickets to success. Visual art is very lucrative but most employers would rather see your portfolio.


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## RepQuest (Aug 16, 2016)

Too many people are getting undergraduate degrees and beyond for jobs that shouldn't even require a high school diploma.


ObeseScreamingBlackMan said:


> Meanwhile the skilled trades are fucking desperate for people.  The combination of all the old trades guys/journeymen retiring and every kid going to college after being told by everyone that a 4-year degree from SixPack State U would propel them right into the ivory towers and that trade jobs are for the plebs.
> 
> But I need to buy coffee regularly so I'm glad this country churns out so many college-educated Starbucks employees.


Many industries are desperate for machinists and tool & die makers, and those jobs pay quite handsomely in part due to little supply and high demand. But of course, people just want to go to a clean office and get paid while browsing the Internet for half of their time on the clock.


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## Joan Nyan (Aug 16, 2016)

All of them. There's nothing you can learn in college that you can't learn elsewhere. I interned at a bank over this summer and had no trouble learning to do the same work as people with college degrees in business and finance, and I only just finished high school. Getting a degree is 4 years that would be much better spent getting job experience if it weren't for the fact that employers won't hire you without a degree.


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## polonium (Aug 16, 2016)

hemolyzer said:


> I dunno my philosophy professor was a fucking vindictive idiot.


Probably because he was labouring under the misapprehension that he was smarter than everyone else around


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## Pikimon (Aug 16, 2016)

Jon-Kacho said:


> All of them. There's nothing you can learn in college that you can't learn elsewhere. I interned at a bank over this summer and had no trouble learning to do the same work as people with college degrees in business and finance, and I only just finished high school. Getting a degree is 4 years that would be much better spent getting job experience if it weren't for the fact that employers won't hire you without a degree.



brb gonna go get experience in neurosurgery lol


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## Oh Long Johnson (Aug 16, 2016)

RepQuest said:


> Too many people are getting undergraduate degrees and beyond for jobs that shouldn't even require a high school diploma.
> Many industries are desperate for machinists and tool & die makers, and those jobs pay quite handsomely in part due to little supply and high demand. But of course, people just want to go to a clean office and get paid while browsing the Internet for half of their time on the clock.


I know a guy who used to be a machinist. Worked in a basement cave below a bar that reached about 110 degrees in the summer. Came home every day covered in coolant. 

I don't think a day goes by without him reflecting with joy on his MCSE freeing him from that plantation.


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## Ravelord (Aug 16, 2016)

dannyfrickenp said:


> [...] pretty much every music degree [...]



Not really, you could end up working as a studio musician (for recording tracks, basically) or a sound technician maybe. But that's if you're willing to put some effort into it. So yeah, if you're lazy it's nearly useless (you could be a teacher at least). If you work your way up, it can be decent.


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## Ruin (Aug 16, 2016)

> Too many people are getting undergraduate degrees and beyond for jobs that shouldn't even require a high school diploma.



They're not just getting them for the hell of it. Most entry level white collar jobs require at least a BA now to even be considered for a position.


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## Vorhtbame (Aug 16, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Yes, let's just ignore the pesky fact that the more exposed to philosophy people are, the more successful they are at math, expression, creativity, logic, comprehension, empathy, debate, language, critical thinking; and the more likely they are to outperform others both in scientific careers and life in general -- not to mention they are far less prone to fall prey to manipulation, tinfoil hat theories, scams and mind-viruses like social justice. One can even go as far as to say that teaching people philosophy reduces autistic tendencies and sociopathy, and forces people realize that they are not special snowflakes who deserve everything without work.



Oddly, most of the philosophy majors I know were and still are flaming SJWs and entitled snowflakes who believe they are smarter than everyone because they have a degree in philosophy.  They also have some of the most crackpot beliefs that are impenetrable to logic because "I have a philosophy degree; I know what I'm talking about."


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## Ebola (Aug 16, 2016)

Vorhtbame said:


> Oddly, most of the philosophy majors I know were and still are flaming SJWs and entitled snowflakes who believe they are smarter than everyone because they have a degree in philosophy.  They also have some of the most crackpot beliefs that are impenetrable to logic because "I have a philosophy degree; I know what I'm talking about."



Can anyone really name a field the snowflakes have not yet infested?

And don't say something like "physics" because there's a physics professor cow on this fucking website that will nullify your response.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Aug 16, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Can anyone really name a field the snowflakes have not yet infested?
> 
> And don't say something like "physics" because there's a physics professor cow on this fucking website that will nullify your response.



I have yet to hear of a single special snowflake engineer and I have never encountered any ROTC candidates with it that weren't weeded out (not that they aren't trying to destroy the military from the outside).


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## Vorhtbame (Aug 16, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Can anyone really name a field the snowflakes have not yet infested?
> 
> And don't say something like "physics" because there's a physics professor cow on this fucking website that will nullify your response.



Say, philosopher, isn't there some logical fallacy that happens when you answer an accusation with another accusation of other people doing it too?  I'm trying to remember, but I don't have a degree in philosophy to help me.


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## feedtheoctopus (Aug 16, 2016)

Vorhtbame said:


> Oddly, most of the philosophy majors I know were and still are flaming SJWs and entitled snowflakes who believe they are smarter than everyone because they have a degree in philosophy.  They also have some of the most crackpot beliefs that are impenetrable to logic because "I have a philosophy degree; I know what I'm talking about."



Of course there is the possibility they just know more than you do, and you're actually the one who's full of shit. 

That being said arrogance is to college students what water is to fish. So realistically you're _both_ full of shit.


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## Ebola (Aug 16, 2016)

Vorhtbame said:


> Say, philosopher, isn't there some logical fallacy that happens when you answer an accusation with another accusation of other people doing it too?  I'm trying to remember, but I don't have a degree in philosophy to help me.



Does it even matter when the accusation was anecdotal in the first place?

I did use an anecdotal story in an earlier post, but I intentionally pointed out it was anecdotal.


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## Vorhtbame (Aug 16, 2016)

Ebola said:


> Does it even matter when the accusation was anecdotal in the first place?
> 
> I did use an anecdotal story in an earlier post, but I intentionally pointed out it was anecdotal.



On the other hand, bare assertions that philosophy majors are probably better at math, art, science, and logic than everyone else...

Well, evidence is for people who don't have philosophy degrees!


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## RepQuest (Aug 16, 2016)

Ruin said:


> They're not just getting them for the hell of it. Most entry level white collar jobs require at least a BA now to even be considered for a position.


That became a problem _because_ so many people were getting college degrees, so it just became expected of all applicants to have a degree.


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## SU 390 (Aug 16, 2016)

Pretty much any degree that isn't STEM related is practically worthless minus Education. I will say if you plan on majoring in the Humanities or the (fill in the blank) Studies you're better off being a teacher or college/university professor.


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## feedtheoctopus (Aug 16, 2016)

WanderingVagabond said:


> Pretty much any degree that isn't STEM related is practically worthless minus Education. I will say if you plan on majoring in the Humanities or the (fill in the blank) Studies you're better off being a teacher or college/university professor.


Even STEM fields are by and large worthless. If you ask any high school guidance councilor what you should go to college for they'll tell you engineering or something more often than not. So people do that, graduate, and find out there's a massive surplus of engineers and most entry level jobs are hard to get and shitty to begin with. 

Basic reality is our economy is built around the assumption that most of the population is uneducated and content with menial, low paying, bullshit. We don't know how to adapt to a society where it's almost expected that you have a degree. Not only that we're increasingly a service economy, not an intellectual or industrial one. 

So have fun flipping burgers. On the plus side with that fancy physics degree you'll be able to do it more efficiently and with greater precision than anybody else.


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## SU 390 (Aug 16, 2016)

feedtheoctopus said:


> Even STEM fields are by and large worthless. If you ask any high school guidance councilor what you should go to college for they'll tell you engineering or something more often than not. So people do that, graduate, and find out there's a massive surplus of engineers and most entry level jobs are hard to get and shitty to begin with.
> 
> Basic reality is our economy is built around the assumption that most of the population is uneducated and content with menial, low paying, bullshit. We don't know how to adapt to a society where it's almost expected that you have a degree. Not only that we're increasingly a service economy, not an intellectual or industrial one.
> 
> So have fun flipping burgers. On the plus side with that fancy physics degree you'll be able to do it more efficiently and with greater precision than anybody else.



It makes me wonder where the fuck America has gone wrong with this? I understand for the most part outsourcing is a major reason but it can't last forever. It's bad enough I hate working retail. I just feel and fear for people, myself included that want to do more in life than flipping burger or ringing out ungrateful jackasses but can't because the standards of the workforce makes it harder for people to have some improvement in life.

Humans are meant for progress, not stagnation.


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## Ruin (Aug 16, 2016)

WanderingVagabond said:


> It makes me wonder where the fuck America has gone wrong with this? I understand for the most part outsourcing is a major reason but it can't last forever. It's bad enough I hate working retail. I just feel and fear for people, myself included that want to do more in life than flipping burger or ringing out ungrateful jackasses but can't because the standards of the workforce makes it harder for people to have some improvement in life.
> 
> Humans are meant for progress, not stagnation.



Years of electing politicians from both parties that stand to make a lot of money outsourcing jobs and shutting down rival firms.


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## SU 390 (Aug 16, 2016)

Ruin said:


> Years of electing politicians from both parties that stand to make a lot of money outsourcing jobs and shutting down rival firms.



Like always, politicians are to blame. Real change won't ever happen in the lifetime.


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## Picklechu (Aug 16, 2016)

ObeseScreamingBlackMan said:


> Meanwhile the skilled trades are fucking desperate for people.  The combination of all the old trades guys/journeymen retiring and every kid going to college after being told by everyone that a 4-year degree from SixPack State U would propel them right into the ivory towers and that trade jobs are for the plebs.
> 
> But I need to buy coffee regularly so I'm glad this country churns out so many college-educated Starbucks employees.





RepQuest said:


> Too many people are getting undergraduate degrees and beyond for jobs that shouldn't even require a high school diploma.
> Many industries are desperate for machinists and tool & die makers, and those jobs pay quite handsomely in part due to little supply and high demand. But of course, people just want to go to a clean office and get paid while browsing the Internet for half of their time on the clock.


There's a _huge _stigma against trades, trade schools, and the like. I actually put together a research proposal a few years ago on the subject (it didn't get the grant, so I didn't go further with it). It's interesting from a policy perspective, especially because a lot of school systems will make it difficult for "smart" kids to learn a trade, assuming their district has access to such resources in the first place. This is one of the reasons I firmly believe we're going to see the student debt bubble burst within the next 15 years.

That being said, a lot of people don't want to do physical work, which I absolutely can sympathize with. However, the laws of supply and demand don't care what a person's dream job is.


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## SU 390 (Aug 16, 2016)

Picklechu said:


> There's a _huge _stigma against trades, trade schools, and the like. I actually put together a research proposal a few years ago on the subject (it didn't get the grant, so I didn't go further with it). It's interesting from a policy perspective, especially because a lot of school systems will make it difficult for "smart" kids to learn a trade, assuming their district has access to such resources in the first place. This is one of the reasons I firmly believe we're going to see the student debt bubble burst within the next 15 years.
> 
> That being said, a lot of people don't want to do physical work, which I absolutely can sympathize with. However, the laws of supply and demand don't care what a person's dream job is.



It's kind of sad really. I find working with my hands much more satisfying than dealing with the public. From what I read from some forums trades are in trouble theirselves, not because of shortage of people wanting the jobs/careers it's the economy altogether. I expected the student loan bubble to burst in a few years but 15 years seems optimistic.


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## Ebola (Aug 16, 2016)

Vorhtbame said:


> On the other hand, bare assertions that philosophy majors are probably better at math, art, science, and logic than everyone else...
> 
> Well, evidence is for people who don't have philosophy degrees!


I did say they were smarter than people in general, yes. I never claimed they were smarter in specific fields. However, I am implying they would be superior in interdisciplinary fields. In addition, kids taught philosophy early (grade school to high school) perform better in math and reading/writing, and are more likely to be successful in STEM fields.


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## Sanshain (Aug 16, 2016)

I find it quite odd that 'health professions' are so low on the list. Does that include future surgeons or just nursing and so forth?


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## SU 390 (Aug 16, 2016)

Ebola said:


> I did say they were smarter than people in general, yes. I never claimed they were smarter in specific fields. However, I am implying they would be superior in interdisciplinary fields. In addition, kids taught philosophy early (grade school to high school) perform better in math and reading/writing, and are more likely to be successful in STEM fields.
> 
> View attachment 125041 View attachment 125040 View attachment 125039



According the first chart, IQs 120 and above shows the number of people majoring in STEM. Am I correct on this?


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## The Giver (Aug 16, 2016)

Forever Sunrise said:


> I find it quite odd that 'health professions' are so low on the list. Does that include future surgeons or just nursing and so forth?


"Health professions" is a massive catch all that is going to catch everyone from those who want to be brain surgeons all the way down to the people who want to do the more menial/mechanical work of the healthcare industry. So basically a lot of different majors that all funnel into the healthcare industry in some way. For instance, my undergrad had a program just for people who wanted to be radiologists -- it was more akin to learning a trade than an academic program. There is nothing wrong with that obviously, but I'd imagine if you limited it to those in legit RN programs the results would be far different.

It is also worth noting that this will catch all the "pre-med" people who on average don't do as well as those in other majors on things like the MCAT. So it seems quite likely that (1) the category average is being brought down by folks in majors far less rigorous than an RN program and (2) your brain surgeon probably got a degree in something (biology, physics, etc.) that wouldn't be classified as a "health professionals" major


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## Positron (Aug 16, 2016)

Vorhtbame said:


> Oddly, most of the philosophy majors I know were and still are flaming SJWs and entitled snowflakes who believe they are smarter than everyone because they have a degree in philosophy.  They also have some of the most crackpot beliefs that are impenetrable to logic because "I have a philosophy degree; I know what I'm talking about."



Philosophy is one of the strongholds of postmodernism. 20th century philosophy is so focused on all sorts of funny language games that it should really be called "sophisty".


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## The Giver (Aug 17, 2016)

Positron said:


> Philosophy is one of the strongholds of postmodernism. 20th century philosophy is so focused on all sorts of funny language games that it should really be called "sophisty".


You have a point, especially as regards a lot of stuff in analytic metaphysics. And basically everything in continental philosophy.

To be fair though, a lot of those "playing with language" type problems only get taught and talked about in lower level undergrad classes (especially Intro). They are really easy to explain, an 18 year old freshman who didn't do the reading can see what is going on, and they let you focus on teaching the underlying critical thinking process without having to worry too much about teaching philosophical concepts. You could try and teach more serious material (history of thought, ethics, Bayesianism, etc, etc), but in doing so you'd be detracting from teaching the basics, which is all a lower level class should really be doing. So it just ends up being more efficient to get people arguing about when something is/isn't a "heap" and focus on how the convincing arguments are constructed and attacked, etc.


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## AnimuGinger (Aug 17, 2016)

Forever Sunrise said:


> I find it quite odd that 'health professions' are so low on the list. Does that include future surgeons or just nursing and so forth?


Health professions encompasses nursing, radiology tech, etc. Pre-med isn't classified in it, given Pre-med isn't a real major.

Someone with a doctoral degree in medicine tends to have majored in a natural science of some kind, but that's slowly changing, so it's hard to classify them on here. A surgeon could have an undergrad degree in anything under the sun.


The Giver said:


> There is nothing wrong with that obviously, but I'd imagine if you limited it to those in legit RN programs the results would be far different.


Probably not. It's surprisingly easy to get into an RN program, especially given you can get into it with just a diploma or an associate's. Nursing isn't all that mentally challenging.


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## feedtheoctopus (Aug 17, 2016)

Positron said:


> Philosophy is one of the strongholds of postmodernism. 20th century philosophy is so focused on all sorts of funny language games that it should really be called "sophisty".



I've found most of the people who say this sort of thing have no idea what postmodernism is.


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## The Giver (Aug 17, 2016)

Jackass RN said:


> Health professions encompasses nursing, radiology tech, etc. Pre-med isn't classified in it, given Pre-med isn't a real major.
> 
> Someone with a doctoral degree in medicine tends to have majored in a natural science of some kind, but that's slowly changing, so it's hard to classify them on here. A surgeon could have an undergrad degree in anything under the sun.
> 
> Probably not. It's surprisingly easy to get into an RN program, especially given you can get into it with just a diploma or an associate's. Nursing isn't all that mentally challenging.


Ah ok.

The Nursing program at my undergrad was notoriously difficult to get into. They only let in 50 people a year out of hundreds who tried (they had some arrangement with one of the local hospitals or something, so it was a hard and fast cap). I guess we were the exception


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## AnimuGinger (Aug 17, 2016)

The Giver said:


> Ah ok.
> 
> The Nursing program at my undergrad was notoriously difficult to get into. They only let in 50 people a year out of hundreds who tried (they had some arrangement with one of the local hospitals or something, so it was a hard and fast cap). I guess we were the exception


A good BSN program is hard to get into. But for every good BSN program, there's an associates. If we were to split the nursing programs apart and look at IQs for each, that would probably be more accurate.


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## Positron (Aug 17, 2016)

feedtheoctopus said:


> I've found most of the people who say this sort of thing have no idea what postmodernism is.


Who has?


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## DatBepisTho (Aug 17, 2016)

dannyfrickenp said:


> Women's Studies, pretty much every music degree, and _English_.


O-Oh yeah?!
....It true tho. 

The thing about the education-oriented degrees here is they're being cut, at least the college I went to had dropped one or two of the ed courses by the time I took the publishing/editing route. Can't say much for other regions with higher rates of literacy, but in BFE being a tutor or educator is like having one foot in the dumpster behind MacDonald's.


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## Pikimon (Aug 17, 2016)

student debt


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## TopCat (Aug 18, 2016)

So I'm guessing we all agree that a degree in Politics is worthless?


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## Positron (Aug 18, 2016)

TopCat said:


> So I'm guessing we all agree that a degree in Politics is worthless?


It depends on what you want to do with this degree.  One of my friends majored in Political Science and wrote her dissertation on the political repercussion of the Euro.  She is now doing pretty well as a financial planner.

One of the bonus of studying Politics is that you have a chance to meet 1) political bigshots, 2) people who aspire to be political bigshots and perhaps 3)children of political bigshots.  If you're smart and ambitious you can make very useful connections.


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## Wallace (Aug 18, 2016)

Positron said:


> One of the bonus of studying Politics is that you have a chance to meet 1) political bigshots, 2) people who aspire to be political bigshots and perhaps 3)children of political bigshots.  If you're smart and ambitious you can make very useful connections.



This is actually a pretty good reason to go to college, meeting people who will give you cushy jobs afterwards.


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## LagoonaBlue (Aug 18, 2016)

http://www.hope.ac.uk/postgraduate/postgraduatecourses/thebeatlespopularmusicandsocietyma/

For just £4,500 you can get a degree in _The Beatles_.


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