# The case for a second American Civil War



## mindlessobserver (Mar 6, 2021)

A few days ago, me and a coworker got into a "conversation". We were both born and raised "country" but ended up in the city for work related reasons. We both got front row seats to the "mostly peaceful protests", and had to endure in silence the vitriol of the people around us. Two days ago I commented to him that I was planning to move out. I hated this place, and more importantly I hated the people who lived here. A rather dark assessment on my end, and rather then disagree my coworker agreed. He also hated this city, hated its people and also planned to leave. 

America, we have a problem. A very BIG problem. I can handwave away my own dislike of the people around me, the current trajectory of our culture, and even the wildly different interpretations of the "mostly peaceful protests". While the media and the political establishment, including out current Vice President heralded positive and peaceful protests for change..., I saw "violent riots and state sanctioned murder".  But that's just my opinion. An opinion also held by my coworker. But also just his. The very last straw for me, something I ranted on yesterday in chat was a 3 by 4 foot plexiglass "cough shield" suspended from the ceiling in front of my work desk, and everyone elses' work desk. So that when we interact with clients we can do so "safely". And the stupid things were suspended a foot away from the keyboard meaning in order to use my computer the damn thing has to smash against my face. Repeatedly. Over and Over again. 2020 saw "peaceful protestors" rampage through my neighborhood destroying property. It saw me forced to put masks on my face, witness businesses and cultural institutions I loved get eviscerated while big corporations like Amazon were allowed to pick up the slack. I now see even more Amazon vehicles then I do United States Post Office vehicles. Every time that plexi glass shield is smashing into my face (every day since Wednesday, March 3rd 2021 for people reading this in the future) I see the proverbial boot of the inner party stepping on the face of man. Over and Over again. It was what ultimately pushed me over the edge and led me to confide in private that I no longer just disagreed with the people of this city. I HATED them. And I found out my coworker hated them too. 

And hatred is a powerful emotion. Not one bounded by math, societal constraints, shame or any other of the myriad social controls the powers that be in America have attempted to use to brow beat the public into submission. The reason "Cancel Culture" has been successful so far is because the vast majority of Americans, myself included up until March 3rd 2021, did not hate their fellow countrymen. They still held common fidelity with them, even though they disagreed fundamentally with their politics. After all, we are still Americans. Right? Wrong. After about the 5th time that plexi glass shield smashed into my face, on March 4th, I had reached an unfortunate conclusion. We aren't still Americans anymore. I never really agreed with the mask mandates, the shut downs, the riots, the shenanigans with the election. But these were all things I could ultimately handwave. It took the physical smacking of plexiglass onto my face to really rub it in. 

Our political establishment has surrendered the hopes and dreams of hard working American Entrepreneurs to uncaring multi national corporations with no bonds of fidelity to our American Community. 

They have established a legal and political system that exists to protect this multi national economic order and murder in the cradle any threat to it. Like Parlor v. Twitter. 

They are using emotional blackmail, fear, and othering to drive a hard wedge between the various political factions in America in a naked grasping effort for power. And it had worked all too well. They have split the coasts and the cities irrevocably from the fly over states and rural counties. Severing the bonds of fidelity without a care or pause of reflection. 

They have engaged in wholesale, racial attacks on a significant racial component of the nation, one that is a majority over all but an increasing minority in their coastal and urban power bases. Not out of any desire for social justice, but for the simple naked political calculation that if they can just get their pet minorities to the fear the evil race, they will be their peons for life.

They are seeking to disarm their political rivals, in violation of their constitutional rights, so that they may be better dressed for the submission, or slaughter. Whichever comes first. 

They have surrendered our military industries, corporations, and even our very culture, to the perfidious Chinese communists, for no other reason then to aquire more wealth and power for themselves, at the expense of the American people, our legacy, and our values. 

They allow the same corporations that thank the guards of concentration camps that exist to ethnically cleanse religions and racial minorities in Xinjiang to dictate what Free Americans can think, say and see. 

They have expended the blood and treasure of our people in endless foreign conflicts that serve no benefit other then to enrich these same multi national corporations that support genocide when convenient to their profits, and vile oppression against the free people of America. 


Do I want a war? No. I had a front row seat to a civil war in Iraq and let me tell you this is the last thing any of us should want. But its coming. I am just one person out of many. I just want a peaceful and free future for my children. But if given a choice between peaceful OR free, my choice will be for Free. And the sad truth is the reason I have begun the hate the people of the city is because I have concluded they have happily accepted the chains of slavery and now they want to put them on me. And my people. The people of the fields, the mountains, and the America the bankers in New York and San Francisco "fly over".


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## The Jumping Dwarf (Mar 6, 2021)

That's a lotta words for what amounts to fedposting.


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 6, 2021)

The Jumping Dwarf said:


> That's a lotta words for what amounts to fedposting.


Fedposting is saying hello my fellow kids, who wants to blow up a federal court house? This is just my resigned recognition that we are fucked. I  am a soldier by trade, historian by training. I just don't see any effort being expended to heal the divide in America. Quite the opposite. Every effort seems to be made to exasperate the problem.


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## Sustainable War (Mar 6, 2021)

You've probably put more thought into this ambiguous seethe than figuring out how to just move your keyboard or desk position.


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## bigfuccbuck (Mar 6, 2021)

In before you all get hit by a drone strike in the middle of DC


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## AMHOLIO (Mar 6, 2021)

lol calm down


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## Meat Pickle (Mar 6, 2021)

TLDR doomer


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## WASTED (Mar 6, 2021)

hate that we cant rate posts with "dumb" or "autistic" anymore on autistic thunderdome. thanks a lot josh.


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 6, 2021)

Sustainable War said:


> You've probably put more thought into this ambiguous seethe than figuring out how to just move your keyboard or desk position.


Funny story. I put foreword numerous suggestions for avoiding the whole cough shield smashing the face issue and was told in no uncertain terms I will let the thing smash my face every day and I will like it


Meat Pickle said:


> TLDR doomer


I've been black pilled since July. I watched my home town get set on fire to the cheers of national media. Last week I listened to an NPR broadcast that called the riots that burned down my favorite bar peaceful

At a fundamental level our shared reality is broken.


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## Kujo Jotaro (Mar 6, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> A few days ago, me and a coworker got into a "conversation". We were both born and raised "country" but ended up in the city for work related reasons. We both got front row seats to the "mostly peaceful protests", and had to endure in silence the vitriol of the people around us. Two days ago I commented to him that I was planning to move out. I hated this place, and more importantly I hated the people who lived here. A rather dark assessment on my end, and rather then disagree my coworker agreed. He also hated this city, hated its people and also planned to leave.
> 
> America, we have a problem. A very BIG problem. I can handwave away my own dislike of the people around me, the current trajectory of our culture, and even the wildly different interpretations of the "mostly peaceful protests". While the media and the political establishment, including out current Vice President heralded positive and peaceful protests for change..., I saw "violent riots and state sanctioned murder".  But that's just my opinion. An opinion also held by my coworker. But also just his. The very last straw for me, something I ranted on yesterday in chat was a 3 by 4 foot plexiglass "cough shield" suspended from the ceiling in front of my work desk, and everyone elses' work desk. So that when we interact with clients we can do so "safely". And the stupid things were suspended a foot away from the keyboard meaning in order to use my computer the damn thing has to smash against my face. Repeatedly. Over and Over again. 2020 saw "peaceful protestors" rampage through my neighborhood destroying property. It saw me forced to put masks on my face, witness businesses and cultural institutions I loved get eviscerated while big corporations like Amazon were allowed to pick up the slack. I now see even more Amazon vehicles then I do United States Post Office vehicles. Every time that plexi glass shield is smashing into my face (every day since Wednesday, March 3rd 2021 for people reading this in the future) I see the proverbial boot of the inner party stepping on the face of man. Over and Over again. It was what ultimately pushed me over the edge and led me to confide in private that I no longer just disagreed with the people of this city. I HATED them. And I found out my coworker hated them too.
> 
> ...


I don't know what it is about mask spergs but they're the worst on both sides. The people who rant about masks either being the ultimate infringement on our freedom, or the only path to salvation are equally insufferable. OP you're a baby, you finally get a little taste of covid precautions at work(at the tail end no less) and you flip a tit? 

Your depiction of a clownish world is somewhat accurate, but its unrealistic in the sense that anyone would be willing to fight and die for a political cause outside of speds online. The riots were not a coherent political movement, because by their very nature riots can't be coherent. What you saw was a sample of the people you live shoulder to shoulder with. You're not wrong to want to leave, but I think you'll be disappointed if you expect to find any real support for your civil war ambitions/predictions in the country side.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 6, 2021)

I feel it in my bones that it's going to happen, it's inevitable by this point, what SJW/Woke is is a war on truth itself, they want to kill the very concept of truth dead, think about the real implications of that and you will realize that no group of human beings have had a more justified reason to fight a war in all of human history until now, they make the Nazis look like boyscouts, what better reason to fight than to preserve the very concept of truth itself? 

One of these days your submission is going to come down to a gun pointed at your face, that is inevitable, SJWs/Woke use propaganda to try to get you to submit now, but it's going to come down to brass tacks and they're going to make it clear one day "submit or we'll kill you" and why should we just let that happen?

Anyone who denies a war is needed to sort this shit out is a coward, plain and simple, I'm not saying you personally have to fight, I'm not saying I would personally fight or could even do that, but anyone that handwaves the idea that a war is needed to stop SJWs severely underestimates the magnitude of this problem, they are quite literally the worst evil the human race has ever produced and if they're not stopped one day they _will _try and kill you if you don't submit, I guarantee you this.


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## Kujo Jotaro (Mar 6, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> I feel it in my bones that it's going to happen, it's inevitable by this point, what SJW/Woke is is a war on truth itself, they want to kill the very concept of truth dead, think about the real implications of that and you will realize that no group of human beings have had a more justified reason to fight a war in all of human history until now, they make the Nazis look like boyscouts, what better reason to fight than to preserve the very concept of truth itself?
> 
> One of these days your submission is going to come down to a gun pointed at your face, that is inevitable, SJWs/Woke use propaganda to try to get you to submit now, but it's going to come down to brass tacks and they're going to make it clear one day "submit or we'll kill you" and why should we just let that happen?
> 
> Anyone who denies a war is needed to sort this shit out is a coward, plain and simple, I'm not saying you personally have to fight, I'm not saying I would personally fight or could even do that, but anyone that handwaves the idea that a war is needed to stop SJWs severely underestimates the magnitude of this problem, they are quite literally the worst evil the human race has ever produced and if they're not stopped one day they _will _try and kill you if you don't submit, I guarantee you this.


Do you see how these people tear each other apart? How their logic changes on a daily basis? I'm not typically an optimist when it comes to humans and their systems, but its only a matter of time before these people scorn so many people they can't garner any support. 

If your whole movement is built on a disgusting hierarchical system of victimhood and racial tension its only a matter of time before those who were included and empowered are excluded and disenfranchised. You're already seeing this with asians, they're being shamed in similar ways to whites in the past. Likewise you see this with gays and somewhat with lesbians now, they're no longer oppressed enough or may even be oppressors themselves. 

Wars require leaders, who are the leaders of these factions, and where are the lines drawn? We live in too complex a world, and individuals stand to lose too much in the event of a war for one to occur.

We'll see more civil unrest, hell we might see outright political violence, but you're nuts if you think war is happening anytime soon or even justified at this point.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 6, 2021)

Kujo Jotaro said:


> Do you see how these people tear each other apart? How their logic changes on a daily basis? I'm not typically an optimist when it comes to humans and their systems, but its only a matter of time before these people scorn so many people they can't garner any support.
> 
> If your whole movement is built on a disgusting hierarchical system of victimhood and racial tension its only a matter of time before those who were included and empowered are excluded and disenfranchised. You're already seeing this with asians, they're being shamed in similar ways to whites in the past. Likewise you see this with gays and somewhat with lesbians now, they're no longer oppressed enough or may even be oppressors themselves.
> 
> ...


Buddy, I sincerely hope you're right and that the problem sorts itself out without need for a war, but I'm by the day I grow more worried that that's not going to happen.


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## Dysnomia (Mar 6, 2021)

Nuke us from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


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## Kujo Jotaro (Mar 6, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Buddy, I sincerely hope you're right and that the problem sorts itself out without need for a war, but I'm by the day I grow more worried that that's not going to happen.


I don't know what your situation is, I know a lot of people whether they're working or not are still stuck at home with their only access to public discourse being the internet. While it's true that people often speak their minds more freely online how often do they actually act out what they claim to believe? 

I can tell you  as someone who has been lucky enough to get to leave their house for work since the start of the pandemic that war is not on anyones lips. The only people ik who are talking about it are those drenched in fox/cnn narratives, or my zoomer friends who spend too much time on discord.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 6, 2021)

Kujo Jotaro said:


> I don't know what your situation is, I know a lot of people whether they're working or not are still stuck at home with their only access to public discourse being the internet. While it's true that people often speak their minds more freely online how often do they actually act out what they claim to believe?
> 
> I can tell you  as someone who has been lucky enough to get to leave their house for work since the start of the pandemic that war is not on anyones lips. The only people ik who are talking about it are those drenched in fox/cnn narratives, or my zoomer friends who spend too much time on discord.


I mean sure, maybe you're right, but what makes me think you're wrong is that Woke isn't some grassroots thing, it has the backing of almost every single major corporation, there are the leaders you asked about.

Everywhere you turn now you see Woke, corporations have gone all in on it and their foot soldiers have already been plenty violent, why would that just go away? They want the submission of every last human being in this country, the longer that doesn't happen with their endless propaganda the more their going to turn to violence to get everyone to submit.

If this was just some internet bullshit I would think you were right, once upon a time it was just that and I used to think like you do, but times have changed, these people have very purposely infiltrated the corporate world and now use their power to push it even further, they know what they're doing, they know what they want and they seem to be getting it because too many people think like you do and are not making it loud and clear that we will fight for our freedom in this country.

I hope it does just flame out but all I'm saying is anyone who thinks that if push comes to shove our freedom is not worth fighting for is a coward.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> A few days ago, me and a coworker got into a "conversation". We were both born and raised "country" but ended up in the city for work related reasons. We both got front row seats to the "mostly peaceful protests", and had to endure in silence the vitriol of the people around us. Two days ago I commented to him that I was planning to move out. I hated this place, and more importantly I hated the people who lived here. A rather dark assessment on my end, and rather then disagree my coworker agreed. He also hated this city, hated its people and also planned to leave.
> 
> America, we have a problem. A very BIG problem. I can handwave away my own dislike of the people around me, the current trajectory of our culture, and even the wildly different interpretations of the "mostly peaceful protests". While the media and the political establishment, including out current Vice President heralded positive and peaceful protests for change..., I saw "violent riots and state sanctioned murder".  But that's just my opinion. An opinion also held by my coworker. But also just his. The very last straw for me, something I ranted on yesterday in chat was a 3 by 4 foot plexiglass "cough shield" suspended from the ceiling in front of my work desk, and everyone elses' work desk. So that when we interact with clients we can do so "safely". And the stupid things were suspended a foot away from the keyboard meaning in order to use my computer the damn thing has to smash against my face. Repeatedly. Over and Over again. 2020 saw "peaceful protestors" rampage through my neighborhood destroying property. It saw me forced to put masks on my face, witness businesses and cultural institutions I loved get eviscerated while big corporations like Amazon were allowed to pick up the slack. I now see even more Amazon vehicles then I do United States Post Office vehicles. Every time that plexi glass shield is smashing into my face (every day since Wednesday, March 3rd 2021 for people reading this in the future) I see the proverbial boot of the inner party stepping on the face of man. Over and Over again. It was what ultimately pushed me over the edge and led me to confide in private that I no longer just disagreed with the people of this city. I HATED them. And I found out my coworker hated them too.
> 
> ...


I know I say say alot things I'll regret but that's a case of posting while stupid.

Make no mistake biden and his ivy league buddies have declared war on liberty loving Americans.

They plan to consolidate power very soon. They also plan to replace liberty minded people via mass migration with a willing slave class. They want us to go the way of the nendanderthral.

The more realistic outcome is various places will break down then break off.

You see their power requires technology and infrastructure to function.

Take Texas. Sure their electric grid going be fine be but the damage via freezing pipes is irreversible. All this water damage will lead to sinkholes forming. Which will lead to further destruction of infrastructure and further destruction of their ability to control things.

Take seattle and portland. Thanks to antifa those places are the equivalent of pakistans frontier along the afghani border. Technically under their jurisdiction but not under their control.
If not now will soon will be.

Don't forget these assholes love to shred everything for profit.
They've been neglecting the infrastructure for years. Skimming off funds needed to keep vital systems matained is going bear fruit. Not in their favor.

Also wait till inflation really hits. Already I hear npcs expressing sticker shock about how their bills are ten or twenty dollars more then normal. Sure they've been sleep walking up till now but they will want blood if prices keep rising.


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## Save the Loli (Mar 6, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> I hope it does just flame out but all I'm saying is anyone who thinks that if push comes to shove our freedom is not worth fighting for is a coward.


That line is different for everyone though, and the line of "fight for freedom" has been crossed for some people. I think we'll see a lot of right-wing terrorism in the next few years since the government seems so desperate to create racists and far-right domestic terror-insurrectionists out of tens of millions of Americans. After every attack, expect your freedoms to start being chipped away at. This won't be like Sandy Hook or Parkland or whatever where all they could do was send their astroturfed minions into the streets and scream impotently, expect it to be a two-front attack from corporations and politicians involving lots of censorship and reduction of Second Amendment rights.

I'm of the opinion that we've already lost the ability to cause any real change by the ballot (2020 is confirmation of this, but it's been in the works for years although you can argue that voting was always just for show), but we don't need the bullet just yet. Presumably the courts will still _mostly_ uphold the Constitution and we can vote politicians who will keep the decay minimal and expect at least some of them to win. But I don't think the courts and other surviving institutions will last long either given that law schools are corrupted and the DNC is appointing federal judges.

Arguably this country has been fucked since 2016 when Trump won. He scared the shit out of the elite with his rhetoric and must've triggered a desire for a perverse accelerationism in them. They had to take the gloves off and pull out all the stops so Trump would be stopped and would never happen again. Notice how SJWs became far more radical and widespread after 2016? Notice how Antifa terrorism only really started after 2016? Notice how Big Tech censorship took off after 2016? Notice how after 2016 the media dropped any pretense of neutrality (liberal media treated Bush far better than Trump, and even Obama was celebrated by Fox News compared to how CNN/MSNBC received Trump) and we started to see a real push for "no such thing as being neutral, everything is political?" Turns out it wasn't really necessary since Trump was all talk and not willing to really take on the Swamp, but they sure pretended like any day now he would declare himself dictator-for-life and it worked since millions became irrationally terrified and afraid of the Big Bad Orange Man.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 6, 2021)

Save the Loli said:


> Notice how SJWs became far more radical and widespread after 2016?


I have, I've been thinking about that a lot, trying to trace back the last time things felt in any way normal and I've come to the conclusion that there was a _huge _tonal shift among the left in 2016.

If Woke had stayed at 2015 levels I could have lived with it, it was stupid bullshit even then but it was a lot more tolerable compared to now, but 2016 was completely fucking nuts, one of the many things I saw was left leaning forums either banning someone outright for conservatism or becoming more and more openly hostile and hateful, whereas in 2015 even though they would always smugly make it clear that they thought you were annoying and an idiot, SJWs would still talk to you, they would still try to debate you and convince you to come over to their side without necessarily always going for the throat with ad hominem attacks, all that ended in 2016 though, they made it loud and clear that if you were a Trump supporter they wanted you gone, there was no longer any room for debate.

World went to absolute shit in 2016 and it's literally been getting a little worse and a little worse ever since, 2017 was a little worse than 2016, 2018 was a little worse than 2017, 2019 was a little worse than 2018 and 2020 was a LOT worse than 2019, we are now on the verge of literal apocalyptic levels of things getting worse, how long is this downward spiral going to keep going?

I think 2021 is going to be the breaking point, either things are actually going to start getting better or this is when a apocalyptic scale event like a war is going to happen.

I'm telling you guys, I feel it in my gut that something's about to break and it's going to break big.


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## Snuckening (Mar 6, 2021)

Enough talk. If you retards are going to kill each-other, STFU, spare us the eloquent pre-amble and just do it, FFS.


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## The High Prophet of Truth (Mar 6, 2021)

The only way a genuine civil war could happen again in America is if the federal government tries to directly force states to listen to them, kind of like what Biden has threatened to do to Florida. If that happens, and all the red states (who tend to be the ones to tell the feds to fuck off) secede, maybe it happens if the federal government tries to send in the military to force them to rejoin the union.
I agree that America is two different nations living within one currently, but currently, at worst we're going to see militia groups from both political sides attacking each other and the government.


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## Arm Pit Cream (Mar 6, 2021)

Q Anon told me OP is a fag


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## Kujo Jotaro (Mar 6, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> I mean sure, maybe you're right, but what makes me think you're wrong is that Woke isn't some grassroots thing, it has the backing of almost every single major corporation, there are the leaders you asked about.
> 
> Everywhere you turn now you see Woke, corporations have gone all in on it and their foot soldiers have already been plenty violent, why would that just go away? They want the submission of every last human being in this country, the longer that doesn't happen with their endless propaganda the more their going to turn to violence to get everyone to submit.
> 
> ...


Dude people are not going to go out in droves to die for corporations. If anything the people you're so afraid of are the ones chomping at the bit to tear down corporations. 

You can take whatever stated message a corporation gives you about its goals and replace it with one simple motto "turn a profit". They don't care about "trans folks of color ™" they care about making money, and woke retards are often easy to play for cash. 

Alternatively even if we grant your assertion that corporations will lead each side in this war what corporation is leading the right? Is Elon musk going to lead all the keanu chungus pilled redditors in a 1000 year reich against the woketards? 

Their foot soldiers are just useful idiots acting in their perceived self interest, "sure I'll go out and protest injustice I can probably cop some new Jordan's while I'm at it". Even those who aren't out actively robbing/looting are acting in the self interest of their own egos. Instagram and twitter culture (normie culture) are all about how people perceive you. It doesn't matter who you are what you think or what you've done, rather how you present yourself to the collective. They think that protesting racism and injustice, as well as resisting the perceived system makes them look like cool, righteous people. Thing is most people I know did not go to a protest, at most they lazily posted a hashtag, or made some forced screed about their solidarity with the movement and forgot about it a week later. 

You don't build a a successful system on hatred and paranoia, especially not by excluding huge swaths of the population.


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## Feline Supremacist (Mar 6, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> I had a front row seat to a civil war in Iraq


Iraq didn't happen on its own, we made it happen by literally destroying their government and then diddling out thumbs while deciding what should replace it. External events cause Iraq's civil unrest along with a society that had been deeply fractured since its creation by the British. 

Now if you throw in an invading force, even the UN as some bonehead congressional idiots suggested, then we might have a problem. And if in addition to some foreign soldiers showing up, the US to suddenly lost the ability to feed its citizens and power itself then all bets are off.  

In short, the US has to devolve into real third world shithole levels for a certain amount of time in order for a true civil war to be possible. What happened this summer was astounding and while I agree things will get worse, it's not a sure sign the USA is doomed.

I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm saying it hasn't happened yet. If you're worried make an escape plan, stock up on weapons, ammo, food and things you can trade/sell. Quietly.


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## Pargon (Mar 6, 2021)

get fucked, babykiller


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

Snuckening said:


> Enough talk. If you retards are going to kill each-other, STFU, spare us the eloquent pre-amble and just do it, FFS.


Actually don't need to kill or destroy anything. This is a war of symbolism and perspective management.

Alot of farmers here have posted about the upcoming inflation.

How can that be exploited?

Well there this guy who has been turning dollar bills into art. So he takes a dollar bill, he draws on it then tries to use his art as a unit of barter to pay his bills. So he can turn his one dollar bill into something worth twenty, fifty or whatever he can convince he is paying what his art is worth.

It's totally legal.

So what can be done is many anti woke artists can try the same. Turn their money into art and thus into a unit of barter.

This can be done on a massive scale as form of protest.

The protest will be about how the us governments policies are devaluing the american dollar. If the feds get bitchy about this you can use their reaction as "proof" that yes they are setting policy hurting the dollar. They're over reacting cause yes something you just made is worth more then worlds currency. This will discredit the state and make them lose power. It would also make people lose more faith in the dollar devalue the dollars leads to a weaker american government. If they don't do shit? Continue making your own currency and replace the us dollar.


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 6, 2021)

Kujo Jotaro said:


> Dude people are not going to go out in droves to die for corporations. If anything the people you're so afraid of are the ones chomping at the bit to tear down corporations.
> 
> You can take whatever stated message a corporation gives you about its goals and replace it with one simple motto "turn a profit". They don't care about "trans folks of color ™" they care about making money, and woke retards are often easy to play for cash.
> 
> ...


What people on the right were slow in coming to terms with is the fact that there is very little daylight between "private business" and "the government". What we are seeing now is that there is none at all. The Government, or more specifically the ruling class that runs both the Government and these corporations be they media, tech, or the FBI, all come from the same club and all work together. The Government was still ostensibly constrained by the constitution, but the corporations were not. Because they were privately held. What has ended up happening is people in Government have subcontracted their unconstitutional powers to the private sector.

The FBI cannot spy on your phone without a warrant. But If you have a cell phone plan from AT&T and use Google applications, both AT&T and Google can spy on it for "quality assurance purposes", and then own that data. Which the FBI can then "ask" them for. No warrant required.

You have a right to speak your mind and write your books/bulletins and the Government cannot stop you from doing so. But increasingly all the distribution channels are run through a few select corporations, and once the Government has decided certain naughty opinions are not allowed they just call their buddies up in Comcast, Google or Random House and straight down the memory hole it goes. Like Doctor Seuss, which cannot even be sold second hand on eBay now.

As for whether anyone will "go out and die in droves" in support of this, lets also not forget the government and these corporations have inculcated enormous dependency in people to preserve the status quo. Everything from their retirement funds, pensions, and the welfare dole. For the same reason a police officer will carry out clearly unconstitutional dictats in arresting people for not toeing the line. He does not want to get fired, and is stuck in the prisoners dilemma. He cannot guarantee every other cop in his department will back him up if he says no. Meaning none of them say no and they will go out and fight for tyranny against freedom. And justify it however they want.



Dom Cruise said:


> I have, I've been thinking about that a lot, trying to trace back the last time things felt in any way normal and I've come to the conclusion that there was a _huge _tonal shift among the left in 2016.
> 
> If Woke had stayed at 2015 levels I could have lived with it, it was stupid bullshit even then but it was a lot more tolerable compared to now, but 2016 was completely fucking nuts, one of the many things I saw was left leaning forums either banning someone outright for conservatism or becoming more and more openly hostile and hateful, whereas in 2015 even though they would always smugly make it clear that they thought you were annoying and an idiot, SJWs would still talk to you, they would still try to debate you and convince you to come over to their side without necessarily always going for the throat with ad hominem attacks, all that ended in 2016 though, they made it loud and clear that if you were a Trump supporter they wanted you gone, there was no longer any room for debate.
> 
> ...


I think what is scaring me the most is that I think the elite class have drunk the kool aide. We have former CIA director John Brennan publicly claiming to be embarrassed for being a White Male. It is absolutely terrifying that someone so high up in America's intelligence apparatus is engaging in a Tumblr struggle session. This shit was funny in 2015. Its not funny anymore. There is increasing use of our court systems and government power to enforce this stuff through arbitrary application of criminal prosecutions, such as the wildly different outcomes for Trump Protestors at the capital vs. ANTIFA protestors at the Portland Federal Court House. The double standard is glaringly obvious to everyone and that causes a major crack in the foundation of a stable society. All political factions need to have faith that the laws are evenly applied. If this faith is broken, the whole edifice can come crashing down. And lets not even get started on what it is doing to our public education system.

I don't see it getting better. I actually see it getting worse. Mainly because nobody is in charge at the very top. If Biden was a strong President, he could tamp down on the more destructive impulses of his underlings. But he's not a strong leader. He does not even control his own Press conferences when they wheel him out for the cameras. This means that all the various apparatuses of State Power are turning without direction and this creates a much greater risk that someone, somewhere, will do something very stupid. I don't know what that thing could be, or where it will go down. But once the stupid knocks over the first domino, it will be very hard to stop it.


----------



## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> What people on the right were slow in coming to terms with is the fact that there is very little daylight between "private business" and "the government". What we are seeing now is that there is none at all. The Government, or more specifically the ruling class that runs both the Government and these corporations be they media, tech, or the FBI, all come from the same club and all work together. The Government was still ostensibly constrained by the constitution, but the corporations were not. Because they were privately held. What has ended up happening is people in Government have subcontracted their unconstitutional powers to the private sector.
> 
> The FBI cannot spy on your phone without a warrant. But If you have a cell phone plan from AT&T and use Google applications, both AT&T and Google can spy on it for "quality assurance purposes", and then own that data. Which the FBI can then "ask" them for. No warrant required.
> 
> ...


You have options. You haven't considered them.

If you really want to do something then you'll going have to troll the powers that be into doing something stupid.

Non violence is the key here. If you can trick them into being violent against a non violent action then you'll get the ball rolling in your favor. You have to get their goat by fucking with something they value. Game stop stocks is great example of this. For some reason theyre super sensitive about money. Go that route.

Or least bait them into exhausting their resources over something small. The 6/1 protest did just this. A bunch of boomers stealing a podium is an insurection? Oh please.... The d.c lockdown is costing them more then the so called riot.

You have many options you can choose to counter this.

It's a question what you're willing to do, able to do and wiling to sacrifice.

And yes there are very non glowie options you can pursue.

You said you're a soldier? Then quit. Stop serving in a western military. By serving you're enabling this crap. Not only that's immoral the leaders are as trust worthy as iago from shakespeare. We know they sold out to china. They were helping is is before trump got elected. You seriously want to put your life on the line for politicians who are supporting the people will be shooting at you? I wouldn't.

As a historian you must also know about various time capsules. Such as rosseta stone or dead sea scrolls. Sometimes stashing the culture being destroyed in hopes of it being revived later is the best you can do.

When all else fails then try faith. Care for your soul. Nothing sweeter then getting closer to god. It's a drug you'll never let go.


Please note I re wrote this entire post in hopes of being more coherent


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 6, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> Get some faith. There isn't much you can do at this point beyond caring for your soul.
> 
> If you really want to do something then you'll going have to troll the powers that be into doing something stupid.
> 
> ...


Personally I believe I wont have to do anything. These people are far to arrogant and they will overstep on their own. This thread is more me seething at how stupid things have gotten. I am not saying I personally am going to go out and do something. I am saying I wont have to. The course of history is set. This is just me saying the ship is heading for an iceberg and the captain just wants to go faster towards it rather then turn. So I guess that makes me a doomer. Feels bad man.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> Personally I believe I wont have to do anything. These people are far to arrogant and they will overstep on their own. This thread is more me seething at how stupid things have gotten. I am not saying I personally am going to go out and do something. I am saying I wont have to. The course of history is set. This is just me saying the ship is heading for an iceberg and the captain just wants to go faster towards it rather then turn. So I guess that makes me a doomer. Feels bad man.


I re wrote what I posted cause I felt it was too incoherent.

What we can do on this board is do what we do best. Do research and hope to red pill the feds watching us.
Post info how the cathedral turns on it's own.

As I said earlier these people will turn on their enforcers. Illustrating that to the eyes reading this might get something going.


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## Canaan (Mar 6, 2021)

how to prepare for civil war:
1. own a gun
2. own bullets
3. have stocked food thats doesn't go bad
4. maybe learn like wrestling and boxing or something
5. chill out super hard because its probably not happening in this lifetime


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## The Real SVP (Mar 6, 2021)

War is fun.* Let's have a war!
*: Statement might not apply to civilians, non-combatants, and soldiers. Ask a warrior, if you are unsure if warfare is fun for you.


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## Whatsup bud? (Mar 6, 2021)

Even the most dissatisfied Americans aren't willing to sacrifice their comfort for anything.


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## Emperor Julian (Mar 6, 2021)

I think if you think sjw's vs poltards are going to generate a civil war you need to log of the internet and never return.


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## Unyielding Stupidity (Mar 6, 2021)

Things have to be incredibly dire for the average person to consider armed rebellion as their only reasonable option, and at the moment, that isn't really on the cards. Unless the USA goes full-blown third-world shithole, don't expect a full blown civil war. Now, some civil unrest may be on the cards, as it's undeniable that the political fringes are both growing in size and growing ever more restless, but a civil war is pretty much impossible for the forseeable future.


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## Sargon's wife's son (Mar 6, 2021)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHUFiG1YBwc
		

Get right with God that's all the advice I can give anybody


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## RussianParasite (Mar 6, 2021)

Is the coming civil war actually going to be about black people this time?


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## Penis Drager (Mar 6, 2021)

completely_wasted said:


> hate that we cant rate posts with "dumb" or "autistic" anymore on autistic thunderdome. thanks a lot josh.


Null should just set up a bot that just rates all of our posts autistic.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

Emperor Julian said:


> I think if you think sjw's vs poltards are going to generate a civil war you need to log of the internet and never return.


No this is upper class versus lower class. When someone who works at the cia declares they're ashamed of their whiteness then it's the cia I'm concerned about. Not tumbler etes


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## Dr. Dude (Mar 6, 2021)

Kujo Jotaro said:


> I don't know what it is about mask spergs but they're the worst on both sides. The people who rant about masks either being the ultimate infringement on our freedom, or the only path to salvation are equally insufferable. OP you're a baby, you finally get a little taste of covid precautions at work(at the tail end no less) and you flip a tit?


I see negs incoming for saying so, but I rather sympathize with this to a certain degree. I understand the opposition to the shutdowns since that has inflicted real material harm on people in terms of loss of income and damage to their mental health - if I'm honest, I've probably incurred some of the later - but I can't help but feel that people who are bitching about masks really need to get a grip. 

I mean OP, I have to wear a mask for 8+ hours a day at an office job too, but my productivity was getting annihilated by constantly working from home. I asked to come back on site, and that was the trade we had to make since the owners of the company don't want to be blamed if there's a covid outbreak in the office we rent in a shared building. Does it get a little uncomfortable as the day goes on? Sure, but I've honestly been asked to put up with worse in my work life before. I honestly can't grok this whole attitude that wearing a mask in indoor spaces is some affront to our liberty and freedom. And this is coming from someone who owns guns.

That being said, people who are Karens about other's mask usage are just weenies. If I encounter a stranger without a mask in a physically close setting I just remove myself from the situation (since my dad is at risk) instead of throwing a shitfit about it.  Jesus.


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## Johan Schmidt (Mar 6, 2021)

You don't think another American civil war is coming; no one in this thread does. Not really. 

If you thought it was coming, you'd be hauling arse into the woods to live as an isolationist cave man to avoid being murdered and eaten during the collapse of the worlds only hyperpower. The people who think civil war is coming live in compounds; they don't shitpost on kiwifarms.


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## LargeChoonger (Mar 6, 2021)

Any "civil war" would immediately slam the bricks when it went into rural areas. Farmers, ranchers, anyone else who profits off their property, or even people who just enjoy having their own space (aka the vast majority of property owners) will not take kindly to a BLM horde demanding they be allowed to CHAZ out on their land. I've seen what libshit militias arm themselves with; cheap .22 ARs and Chinese body armor that's not even rated for .38. This exact scenario will occur a few dozen times and then the "war" will end; joggers invade a homestead or farmland, walk around in the open thinking their body armor makes them invincible, then get vaporized by a .270 or bigger from a position they can't find


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## DuckSucker (Mar 6, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Buddy, I sincerely hope you're right and that the problem sorts itself out without need for a war, but I'm by the day I grow more worried that that's not going to happen.


Motherfucker Russia doesnt have the balls to openly revolt against the US and its 100 trillion dollar military, the US citizens certainly wont.

At best, a civil war in the US will amount to gang warfare street shit among alt-right and alt-left. Some twitch streamer will get his brains blown out live on cam whether by swatting or  a drive by when hes out eating sushi, the cam will be shut down, the shit will be shut down and people will forget and move on.

I would never say Im anything but a patriot but I know where I stand, in the big picture.

Senators are not gonna stand by their state and take their state and leave, and I come from a state that got mocked for getting btfo'd from a polar storm, I truly do believe it was a vindictive act by Bidens people to not allow them to open up the decommissioned power plants or whatever, theyve shown themselves to be carnivorous, but people place to much hope in the idea of a state as an individual in a globalist world. Texas left, and came crawling back for a reason. You cant compete with these motherfuckers, they own too much. People also hold this stupid idea of unity, when a state would leave. If Texas left today, it would split into three states, at least. The north is wildly different from the southeast gulf coast or the Rio Grande valley, each part would be gobbled up or join a different party.

The "insurrection" and the reaction to it shows you where the bread is buttered.
Alexandria was shook because some foot fetishist wanted to jack off into her shoes closet and that was the talking point over "people are fed up with the elite jerking themselves off at the expense of the working and middle class". They didnt even care if she felt raped, even she isnt important to them. Whats important is that they make a show of what you do should you question them.

America is being spanked. Theyre not gonna say it twice. Go to your room.

One thing is certain. America will spend like 500 billion years of future revenue in military spending in order to ensure they win. The ONLY thing you can do is make it as costly for them as possible.


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## Save the Loli (Mar 6, 2021)

LargeChoonger said:


> Any "civil war" would immediately slam the bricks when it went into rural areas. Farmers, ranchers, anyone else who profits off their property, or even people who just enjoy having their own space (aka the vast majority of property owners) will not take kindly to a BLM horde demanding they be allowed to CHAZ out on their land. I've seen what libshit militias arm themselves with; cheap .22 ARs and Chinese body armor that's not even rated for .38. This exact scenario will occur a few dozen times and then the "war" will end; joggers invade a homestead or farmland, walk around in the open thinking their body armor makes them invincible, then get vaporized by a .270 or bigger from a position they can't find


There's enough poz in the military that there'd be a lot more serious shit than that. The BLM and Antifa militias are just extra forces for the regime since there will be enough loyal soldiers that they can conduct operations as normal. Now granted, I don't think Lt. Col. Fatboy Vindman's Troon Regiment will be very good by military standards, but they have better weapons and equipment than most of the population and most critically have air support.

What a lot of people don't realize is that we aren't back in 2014/2015 where SJWs are just a loud voice on Tumblr/Twitter screaming about Gamergate. Those SJWs graduated college and got jobs in the HR departments and set up diversity departments where they hire even more of their friends. Every corporation and government agency has them. The Overton Window on social issues has been shifted very far to the left in just a matter of years. We have politicians putting pronouns in the bio, we have a former president demanding reparations for slavery, we have corporations screaming trans pride and Black Lives Matter to the winds and putting lots of money on diversity hires and donations to BLM.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

Save the Loli said:


> There's enough poz in the military that there'd be a lot more serious shit than that. The BLM and Antifa militias are just extra forces for the regime since there will be enough loyal soldiers that they can conduct operations as normal. Now granted, I don't think Lt. Col. Fatboy Vindman's Troon Regiment will be very good by military standards, but they have better weapons and equipment than most of the population and most critically have air support.
> 
> What a lot of people don't realize is that we aren't back in 2014/2015 where SJWs are just a loud voice on Tumblr/Twitter screaming about Gamergate. Those SJWs graduated college and got jobs in the HR departments and set up diversity departments where they hire even more of their friends. Every corporation and government agency has them. The Overton Window on social issues has been shifted very far to the left in just a matter of years. We have politicians putting pronouns in the bio, we have a former president demanding reparations for slavery, we have corporations screaming trans pride and Black Lives Matter to the winds and putting lots of money on diversity hires and donations to BLM.


Yeah one thing people here don't seem to understand is the war doesn't have to be hot to be considered one.

Just because there isn't shootouts in the streets doesn't mean there isn't an effort to eliminate competition.


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 6, 2021)

You don't want a civil war because it'll be bad for the economy. Imagine how much money will be lost by billionaires. War is bad because it reduces the efficiency of the economy. And imagine how much suffering there will be. People shouldn't suffer. They should have constant pleasure in a never ending love stream injected right into their veins. 



Kujo Jotaro said:


> I don't know what it is about mask spergs but they're the worst on both sides. The people who rant about masks either being the ultimate infringement on our freedom, or the only path to salvation are equally insufferable. OP you're a baby, you finally get a little taste of covid precautions at work(at the tail end no less) and you flip a tit?


The thing is, you don't get to be above it all. you're either on the anti-mask side or the pro mask side. The reason why there are no nigger moderate centrists in politics is because they're too smart for their own good. In politics you embrace your side whether they're right or wrong because if you don't you're working for your enemies.

also, people like you are stupid niggers who'd kill their own children if it was the "rational" thing to do


Kujo Jotaro said:


> Do you see how these people tear each other apart? How their logic changes on a daily basis? I'm not typically an optimist when it comes to humans and their systems, but its only a matter of time before these people scorn so many people they can't garner any support.


I'm waiting. everyone's been waiting for a long ass time for this to happen. 
This is kind of an autistic way to format an argument, but I'm tired of writing paragraphs all the time:
P1 people are sheeple
P2 propaganda is effective
P3 sheeple are easily convinced by good propaganda
P4 the left has a lot of good artists making good propaganda
C they won’t lose support, nigger


Kujo Jotaro said:


> Wars require leaders, who are the leaders of these factions, and where are the lines drawn? We live in too complex a world, and individuals stand to lose too much in the event of a war for one to occur.
> 
> We'll see more civil unrest, hell we might see outright political violence, but you're nuts if you think war is happening anytime soon or even justified at this point.


you're kind of right, but this whole thing is assuming that we'll live in this economy Indeffinittely. Nothing lasts forever, and sooner or later there'll be a recession or the big tsunami on the west coast will happen or yellow park will erupt or there will be an actually deadly pandemic that kills 20% of infected. Hard times give reasons for people to fight


DeadFish said:


> Also wait till inflation really hits. Already I hear npcs expressing sticker shock about how their bills are ten or twenty dollars more then normal. Sure they've been sleep walking up till now but they will want blood if prices keep rising.


please elaborate. I've heard nothing on hyper inflation and how people are getting more money than usual. I also don't live in a western country so...


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## DiscoRodeo (Mar 6, 2021)

I've discussed this with my friends a few times, and in a few other groups.

Civil war is stupid doomer shit. It's not happening, I'm not going to go into why- but if you actually think about how society tends to function in the west and how overall secure and centralized the state is, it should be pretty obvious that the concept is not on the horizon. You have both the state and military very much in tandem, no matter what people say.

Saying that, I do believe the US is slipping into a period where low-intensity conflict may become possible and from that, even common if things go awry. Think things like the Years of Lead in Italy or the Troubles in Northern Ireland. 

Are we going to see more people sperging out, militia blowing stuff up more commonly, left wing terrorism even? Honestly, I think we've been seeing more and more of that, and its likely to accelerate over the next few years as our quality of live degrades.

A civil war on a large scale though? No. Not going to happen, stop freaking out and just find a better state to live in if the one youre currently in is miserable.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> .
> please elaborate. I've heard nothing on hyper inflation and how people are getting more money than usual. I also don't live in a western country so...


Posters on the farms have been talking about upcoming inflation. Especially in the wall street bets thread. I'm shocked you don't know since you're a regular poster.

Tldr version is during 2020 shutdown has caused a severe reduction in goods and services. The stimulus packages have created an increased supply of money. This will cause inflation and I'm seeing it start in real life 

Was paying my phone and cable bill. The people who don't pay attention to shit are now getting slammed with bills 20 or 30 dollars higher. You ought hear their hi pitched shrieks when told this months cost.


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## Rusty Crab (Mar 6, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> Non violence is the key here. If you can trick them into being violent against a non violent action then you'll get the ball rolling in your favor.


Yeah that's worked very well for us so far

I believe a significant chunk of this BLM shit is genuine fear over blacks chimping out and killing CEOs of these companies. That is a very real possibility, mind you, because they're so demonstrably violent. Whites have thus far, been completely docile and well behaved in the face of being shit on. I do believe fear of crowds is the difference here.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> Yeah that's worked very well for us so far


If you can shit talk a person  into throwing the first punch....


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 6, 2021)

Kujo Jotaro said:


> Dude people are not going to go out in droves to die for corporations. If anything the people you're so afraid of are the ones chomping at the bit to tear down corporations.
> 
> You can take whatever stated message a corporation gives you about its goals and replace it with one simple motto "turn a profit". They don't care about "trans folks of color ™" they care about making money, and woke retards are often easy to play for cash.
> 
> ...


Corporations absolutely will use violence to preserve their profit margins, Coca Cola hired death squads in Colombia.

If a politician comes along, like a Trump, that pushes nationalism as opposed to globalism, as Trump did and that threatens your profit margins if you're a global company, then they will do anything to stop them, this time they won the war with propaganda, but if that doesn't work they absolutely would give every last Antifa and BLM thug an AK-47 and point them in the direction of the enemy and the foot soldiers wouldn't even realize what was really happening, they're idiots, they wouldn't care or know that they were fighting for corporations, they would think they're fighting the "Nazis" and that's all the reason they would need.

Of course if it a war happened the left would lose and they would lose hard, many of them are cowards and if push came to shove would surrender without even firing the first shot, but they're idiotic enough to try if they were told that's just what they have to do to "own the Nazis"

Of course if that happened and the left lost, then the corporations would start looking into methods like sending UN forces into the US, but I digress.



mindlessobserver said:


> What people on the right were slow in coming to terms with is the fact that there is very little daylight between "private business" and "the government". What we are seeing now is that there is none at all. The Government, or more specifically the ruling class that runs both the Government and these corporations be they media, tech, or the FBI, all come from the same club and all work together. The Government was still ostensibly constrained by the constitution, but the corporations were not. Because they were privately held. What has ended up happening is people in Government have subcontracted their unconstitutional powers to the private sector.
> 
> The FBI cannot spy on your phone without a warrant. But If you have a cell phone plan from AT&T and use Google applications, both AT&T and Google can spy on it for "quality assurance purposes", and then own that data. Which the FBI can then "ask" them for. No warrant required.
> 
> ...


This is precisely what worries me the most, Woke has gone from internet bullshit to infecting the business world, the government, the justice system and the education system more and more, it's not just a grassroots movement anymore.

In the grand scheme of things there is an impasse in American society and the world as a whole, it's freedom versus utopianism, the left wants an absolute utopia where there is never a single murder, crime, hateful word said or prejudiced opinion acted upon, they want perfection and freedom is a hinderance to their perfection, because freedom has a price you pay, in that sometimes people are sadly going to abuse their freedom, but you pay that price because freedom as a whole is more important, it's important that human beings remain free and able to think for themselves, the only way the left could achieve their utopia is if they can control every single thought in a human's mind, if you make a human being cease to be really human, ala Brave New World.

It's just the question, do you give up your humanity in exchange for "perfection" or do you want to keep your humanity despite it's flaws? It may not happen tomorrow, it may not happen this year, but at some point in human history I do think these two forces that want to rule the world are going to have to fight it out.


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## Save the Loli (Mar 6, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> I believe a significant chunk of this BLM shit is genuine fear over blacks chimping out and killing CEOs of these companies. That is a very real possibility, mind you, because they're so demonstrably violent. Whites have thus far, been completely docile and well behaved in the face of being shit on. I do believe fear of crowds is the difference here.


That's more local businesses because those are the ones actually at risk of being the victims of burning, looting, and murdering. The CEOs and major corporations are not, they have plenty of insurance and losing a store or two doesn't hurt. It's a nefarious virtue signal and likely one demanded both from within (HR departments) and from outside. "Outside" is the seriously sketchy shit which a lot of major business and political figures have links to. Think World Economic Forum, Atlantic Council, etc. Those are the sorts of groups who are behind this and help fund Black Lives Matter.

Now you are right that BLM and Antifa get their way in part because they're violent and aggressive. It's just like how we have to respect Islam and not Christianity because unlike Christians, if we make fun of Islam then Muslims will start beheading people in the streets.

As I said, I think there is some real accelerationism by the global elite. They're pulling off the mask and not even pretending like we have any place in the system because then we might elect politicians who stand in their way or simply make them feel scared like Trump did. With Trump gone and the world locked down, it's time for another consolidation of power.

My guess is they want to convert the United States into the centerpiece of their system of global serfdom, exporting degeneracy to the rest of the world while importing lots of immigrants to keep local wages down. The immediate focus probably is provoking a right-wing backlash to pass all sorts of laws and corporate decrees that to quote one Kiwi "make the Patriot Act look like the Bill of Rights." This is where we'll see the social credit system emerge, probably as a corporate measure, including reeducation camps where you can have some struggle sessions to improve your social credit if it drops too low. Low social credit score will likely include confiscation of your guns so by this means they will slowly disarm America even if they suffer some dead cops (note that police will be nationalized and not local anymore) along the way." This is the "civil war" they want, just a couple of localized uprisings.

I strongly believe they would rather destroy the United States than let it not become their mouthpiece, in which case they'll fight to the bitter end in a civil war and almost certainly use nuclear weapons. It will be very difficult to evict them from their coastal cities especially since these people would invite in foreign forces to help them. Still, a destroyed or fragmented United States benefits them too since it removes a major potential threat. The fact the US could play a huge role in dismantling the system of evil these globalists have set up is precisely why a civil war would be a very bad thing.


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## ConfederateIrishman (Mar 6, 2021)

Snuckening said:


> Enough talk. If you retards are going to kill each-other, STFU, spare us the eloquent pre-amble and just do it, FFS.


They're not going to do it. This is an advanced form of coping (s-surely things will not just get worse, right?! S-surely fellow Americans will defend liberty with me!)

It is just venting on a website ultimately.

Edit: If you're actually worried about the direction of this country there are two realistic things you can do:
You can disconnect into the countryside, or you can make plans to immigrate to a country with better economic long term prospects.


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## Rusty Crab (Mar 6, 2021)

Save the Loli said:


> That's more local businesses because those are the ones actually at risk of being the victims of burning, looting, and murdering. The CEOs and major corporations are not, they have plenty of insurance and losing a store or two doesn't hurt. It's a nefarious virtue signal and likely one demanded both from within (HR departments) and from outside. "Outside" is the seriously sketchy shit which a lot of major business and political figures have links to. Think World Economic Forum, Atlantic Council, etc. Those are the sorts of groups who are behind this and help fund Black Lives Matter.
> 
> Now you are right that BLM and Antifa get their way in part because they're violent and aggressive. It's just like how we have to respect Islam and not Christianity because unlike Christians, if we make fun of Islam then Muslims will start beheading people in the streets.
> 
> ...


This entire thing is why I'm unironically pro-China. The whole point seems to be to reduce the entire world to drooling 'gibsmedat' zombies except for a chosen few. Asians are smart and self-defensive enough to keep the world from going into a total dark age.

Yeah, they are authoritarian as shit, but they at least seem to want to do right by their people. Where has our "LET FREEDOM RING" attitude gotten us?


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## Saint Alphonsus (Mar 6, 2021)

The "war" began in earnest when the US Government and Big Business colluded to deny Americans the most basic human rights over a chest cold.

"War" is in scare quotes because one side has the UN/NGO's/Big Business/Big Pharma/Government on its side and the other side keeps telling themselves "stop fedposting."

But consider the s___show happening data point #564,896,123 on Enlightenment liberalism has been a complete and utter failure.


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 6, 2021)

This video is very relevant.


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## DeadFish (Mar 6, 2021)

ConfederateIrishman said:


> They're not going to do it. This is an advanced form of coping (s-surely things will not just get worse, right?! S-surely fellow Americans will defend liberty with me!)
> 
> It is just venting on a website ultimately.
> 
> ...


It is indeed a cope. You see my neighbors dog just shat on my front lawn. I now want the nuclear apocalypse to happen because of it.


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## Save the Loli (Mar 7, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> This entire thing is why I'm unironically pro-China. The whole point seems to be to reduce the entire world to drooling 'gibsmedat' zombies except for a chosen few. Asians are smart and self-defensive enough to keep the world from going into a total dark age.
> 
> Yeah, they are authoritarian as shit, but they at least seem to want to do right by their people. Where has our "LET FREEDOM RING" attitude gotten us?


I think their plan for China is to subvert them from within by introducing Western culture but it clearly isn't working since the Chinese (or at least their government) have become even more authoritarian and nationalistic as of recent. Their China worship is playing with fire, considering the Chinese government can BTFO them once they've outlived their usefulness (i.e. China has taken all the tech and money from them), but right now most of these megacorporations are being useful idiots for the CCP in exchange for making billions in China.


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## Kujo Jotaro (Mar 7, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> What people on the right were slow in coming to terms with is the fact that there is very little daylight between "private business" and "the government". What we are seeing now is that there is none at all. The Government, or more specifically the ruling class that runs both the Government and these corporations be they media, tech, or the FBI, all come from the same club and all work together. The Government was still ostensibly constrained by the constitution, but the corporations were not. Because they were privately held. What has ended up happening is people in Government have subcontracted their unconstitutional powers to the private sector.
> 
> The FBI cannot spy on your phone without a warrant. But If you have a cell phone plan from AT&T and use Google applications, both AT&T and Google can spy on it for "quality assurance purposes", and then own that data. Which the FBI can then "ask" them for. No warrant required.
> 
> ...


Are you familiar with Curtis Yarvin and his concept of "the cathedral"? Because what you described in your first paragraph is very similar.

It's not the government dishing out demands to the private sector about what can and can't be said, it's the private sector that is shaping the Overton window. Congress didn't issue a decree that Trump be banned on twitter they took the initiative themselves. If anything it would be more understandable if it was the other way around.

I think people forget that there was a time before the internet, and that there are other ways of expressing yourself outside of posting online. Even in the most repressive regimes ideas were shared and discussed that the government didn't condone. Today tons of people have their own printers, and people are literate at such a high percentage that all it might take to subvert the government's censorship is a couple of ink cartridges and stacks of paper. Microsoft Word doesn't require the internet, and neither does word of mouth. All is not lost if online distribution channels are shut down, far from it I would think it would probably incense people to talk more about whatever topics were banned.

No ones going to murder you to keep their pension safe, and if that is the case its probably a safe bet that their pension is doomed either way. Those on social security almost certainly couldn't put up a genuine fight, and those on welfare(actual welfare not covid welfare) are either legitimately destitute or such lazy pieces of shit that the notion of fighting for anything even their tugboat wouldn't even cross their minds. The constitution is a joke at this point and a tired one at that. If it actually mattered to how the country was run we wouldn't be where we are now, so yes a cop probably has no problem with unconstitutional action if its sanctioned by the higher ups. Not saying its right just saying that's the reality of the situation. 


Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> You don't want a civil war because it'll be bad for the economy. Imagine how much money will be lost by billionaires. War is bad because it reduces the efficiency of the economy. And imagine how much suffering there will be. People shouldn't suffer. They should have constant pleasure in a never ending love stream injected right into their veins.
> 
> 
> The thing is, you don't get to be above it all. you're either on the anti-mask side or the pro mask side. The reason why there are no nigger moderate centrists in politics is because they're too smart for their own good. In politics you embrace your side whether they're right or wrong because if you don't you're working for your enemies.
> ...


Politics is fake and gay, and you seem like the type to get purged from your political cult of choice if society did collapse. Cool username though.


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## Arm Pit Cream (Mar 7, 2021)

NRX is gay and if you need to explain outdated ideas like "the cathedral", you've already lost.


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## Kujo Jotaro (Mar 7, 2021)

Arm Pit Cream said:


> NRX is gay and if you need to explain outdated ideas like "the cathedral", you've already lost.


Losing implies the game ends, the games not over until everyone is dead


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## Oglooger (Mar 7, 2021)

Blackpills are fake and gay shit made by bourgeois who can't into self reflection and improvement.


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## Sopressata (Mar 7, 2021)

I don’t know about a Civil War, I think we are already in one, it’s a cultural war,  but you sound like a lot of people are feeling right now.

I know for me I will forever be terrified of the government, I was already skeptical but I don’t think I will ever be able to return to a life where I don’t expect some random bureaucrat to decide one day to cancel everything that makes my life worth living, forbid me to leave my home and see friends and family, take my job for no fucking reason and ban me from traveling. This has fucked me up so badly I think about moving to a rural area constantly like you. I lived in a rural area growing up so I know what it’s like and I could do it again easily. I live in a large city right now

As far as hating people I am on board there. I always gave people the benefit of the doubt previously. But now I just assume that most people I pass on the street would gleefully weld me inside my home if the media told them to do it. I will never assume good in strangers ever again. We are very divided . There are well adjusted sane people and neurotic doomers who believe everything “medical experts” say and they will probably wear masks forever. These are the same people who scream about racism and cancel anyone or anything they can as a hobby. These two groups hate one another. One group is viewed as selfish murderers for wanting to go for a haircut and go to work and the other is convinced they are saving lives by trashing the economy and increasing the suicide rates all over the world.

I was a naïve trusting a retard before all of this, I never gave politics and government that much thought on a daily basis like I do now.  I never thought about places being red or blue as far as population because people seemed to pretty much coexist until now. Now I want as far away from blue as possible because I feel strong hatred for the people who are prolonging this hell and judging everyone for literally breathing fresh air.

I think it will get worse , there already is a war of sorts. Last summer there were three channels. Trump/election, racism and COVID, now that Trump is out of the picture we are back to nonstop COVID, as more places start reopening and restrictions loosen we are going to switch the channel again. I have a strong feeling this summer will be non stop racial strife again and  this may sound crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens with the power grid so it won’t matter where you are. It feels like we are being deliberately demoralized and kept anxious and stressed and fearful. More to come with this. The cultural war is already underway.


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

As a younger person I'm forced to ask why you stupid fucking people trusted these bastards in the first place.

You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic. 

Boomers were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.


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## LMFAOForgotPw (Mar 7, 2021)

People always talk about civil war, but what worries me is I don’t hear plans for after. Every civil war or regime change in the past 50+ years has led to the same small group of people having power essentially. Haven’t really seen examples of “great regime change” That seems to be the real source of the woes of the world and I personally think time/energy spent towards doom posting could be better spent on how to change that from being a possibility.

 Not saying one isn’t possible, but only if states start telling the feds to fuck off aside from just drugs. Thing is that would probably be used to end up with an even worse government than we have. Idk, I’m optimistic for change from within because it’s the only option I see that long term makes things better.


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## Arm Pit Cream (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.


 I voted libertarian the Republic is now saved, I am morally superior according to you since you don't vote, Mr.Pessimist


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

LMFAOForgotPw said:


> People always talk about civil war, but what worries me is I don’t hear plans for after. Every civil war or regime change in the past 50+ years has led to the same small group of people having power essentially. Haven’t really seen examples of “great regime change” That seems to be the real source of the woes of the world and I personally think time/energy spent towards doom posting could be better spent on how to change that from being a possibility.
> 
> Not saying one isn’t possible, but only if states start telling the feds to fuck off aside from just drugs. Thing is that would probably be used to end up with an even worse government than we have. Idk, I’m optimistic for change from within because it’s the only option I see that long term makes things better.


There is no vision of what comes after. It's going be a slap fight until both sides can't control the other any more. It's going be an era of disintegration.


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

Arm Pit Cream said:


> I voted libertarian the Republic is now saved, I am morally superior according to you since you don't vote, Mr.Pessimist


Letting the average retard select who gets to run the country got us into this mess in the first place.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> Letting the average retard select who gets to run the country got us into this mess in the first place.


That's why I'm for tribal sized government. If you can't get at least 150 to follow you then you shouldn't be in power. It's a  simple system really


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

I would like to clarify that despite my previous comments I am all in favor of a Second Civil War. The way I see it, a bunch of people I absolutely despise will fucking die on both sides while my irrelevant neck of the woods will more than likely see no action at all.

I've actually had a frequent daydream about just this sort of thing. I call it The American Reckoning, less a civil conflict in the conventional sense and more one large and chaotic historical episode with the potential to last three or four generations. An era where all of the shortcuts and oversights we've arrogantly allowed to exist on our watch come back to haunt us with a vengeance. Common culture being overtaken by two caricatures of liberal and conservative, each representing their worst aspects, made more and more extreme by the media. The same way one would has to slowly and carefully enrich the precious Uranium 235 and Plutonium 239 materials you would eventually place into the casket of a nuclear warhead.

And much like nuclear fission when these two forces annhilate each other the bang will be incredible. Completely uncontrollable, so powerful that the country won't really break up so much as it will fly apart. I'm not talking like Day of the Rope or that other nonsense, I mean like bodies being burned in the streets just to prevent the spread of cholera and people killing each other over bread lines. There'll be no sides after a few short years of fighting, just people struggling to survive as things steadily get worse and worse. Americans don't know how to deal with a societal collapse, they'll be completely unprepared and starve by the millions, to say nothing of things like what the loss of easy medical care and basic infrastructure will cause.

The whole world will go with us too. Europe will fall apart, the Middle East will pretty much instantly dissolve and Africa will go back to its natural state. Even China and Russia, who both believe they are prepared for the United States to collapse, will suffer greatly as they have surely underestimated just how disruptive the loss of the American economy will be to the rest of the world. China will probably experience its own conflict that will make the Cultural Revolution look like a joke.

I'm disgusted enough with the world to eagerly await this. You should stop and think about it though, whoever you are, wherever you are. Do you want this too? Because that's what you're going to get. The first and foremost fallacy any of the belligerents have in a civil war is the belief that they will have control of the situation once chaos starts to set in.

But no bro, you've got this. I'm just a pessimist after all. We're never right about anything.


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## Drag-on Knight 91873 (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> As a younger person I'm forced to ask why you stupid fucking people trusted these bastards in the first place.
> 
> You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.
> 
> Boomers were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.


You really asked a mouthful there. I could just say "See Yuri Bezmenov," but I think blaming communism for everything is an oversimplification and implies more intent on ideological subversion than what is warranted.

The problem is an intergenerational one that started IMO with the hippies and subsequent gaslighting of them as noble pacifists. They were not. They were directionless teenagers that didn't like the iron fist leadership of the Silent generation. Unfortunately, these young boomers were willing to listen to any charismatic or artistic leader most notably Charles Manson who convinced his harem of women to murder a rising actress. Extreme example, but the mindset of the hippies was to follow the most ostentatious counter-culture artists of that time. Boomers, like Mayor Durkan refer to the Summer of Love to get normies to think of Woodstock. To which the counter to that overrated concert is Altamont. These hippies had two choices: sell out and become productive yuppies or become adjunct professors. These people were definitely subverted based on how the myth of the noble hippie comes from them.

The culture of the Young Boomers set the cultural archetype for later generations. Gen X effectively doubled down on everything the hippies started. Part of it was due to the rising permissiveness of divorce which led to them becoming the first latchkey generation, which created the basis to hold Silent generation values like the nuclear family into doubt. The other part is Gen X culture was heavily invested in literary deconstruction, where the goal of the art critic is to break down long-standing archetypes to expose the hypocrisy. The target for this generation was often the Silent generation. Married with Children, as much as I love the show, is a deconstructionist take on 50s-60s sitcoms and the nuclear family. Academic Agent also cites Daria as an example of the attitude of the Gen Xer and from her, you can see how the Atheist thought leaders were created. This generation, I don't think anyways, was subverted like the hippies were, but their persistent cynicism did make them numb to the world around them and let's be honest, Kiwi Farms is a site that indulges in this attitude.

Now we're on to the Millenials which I would describe as a massive trainwreck. Heinlein in Starship Troopers was completely right about how the social scientists and child psychologists fucked up. All those hippies mentioned earlier have now effected public school policy by using their knowledge in psychology and child development to create a bizarre parallel society where socialization is the only valuable activity for a student to study. The attitude of "who you know, not what you know," is the defining characteristic of this generation. Aside from the obvious avoidance of ugly, talented people, we can now see why Cancel culture looks the way it does. Unlike previous generations where talent and persistence were alternate ways to gain status, group acceptance was the sole means of gaining status and for many, bragging was a necessary tool to do so, which led to this generation's narcissism. Tim Pool is peak Millenial; not that bright, wise, or even all that nice, but whatever achievements he's created, he brags about it to such a degree that his fans think he's an amazing journalist. It's no coincidence that lolcows are typically in this generation. Yes, some are subverted such as AOC and the Justice Democrats, but in general, it doesn't matter that much because the rest of them are clout chasers anyways.


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## JimmyNugget (Mar 7, 2021)

Please southies, revolt again. Give the Libs every justification to finish what Sherman started. We can turn the uneducated south into a burning and ruined uneducated south.


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

Drag-on Knight 91873 said:


> They were directionless teenagers that didn't like the iron fist leadership of the Silent Generation.


I could comment on a lot of your post at various points but I think I can sum up my opinion readily by saying that I completely understand why the generation before the Silent were so harsh on their kids. Spare the rod spoil the child, evidently. I guess my grandfather got horsewhipped when he misbehaved for a reason. For all the talk Boomers have about Millenials lacking discipline they were surely raised with none of it themselves.

However I don't think narrowing the blame down to a cultural movement really lowers the yield of what I said at all. Boomers themselves are to blame for being so gullible. Misleading cultural institutions do not gain power unless the complacent masses allow them to do so, and in a democracy especially this makes every person registered to vote guilty of all of the crimes and mistakes of their country. I also think there were more than the Hippies to blame for our current situation, but I do agree they were a huge part of it.

I also think Yuri Bezemov is a fraud. He's the living embodiment of that joke where Russians claim to have invented everything and written every story. I think had there been no Soviet interference at all the conditions would still have been ripe for the culture of complacency and gullibility that is set to devour us all.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 7, 2021)

Sopressata said:


> I think it will get worse , there already is a war of sorts. Last summer there were three channels. Trump/election, racism and COVID, now that Trump is out of the picture we are back to nonstop COVID, as more places start reopening and restrictions loosen we are going to switch the channel again. I have a strong feeling this summer will be non stop racial strife again and  this may sound crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens with the power grid so it won’t matter where you are. It feels like we are being deliberately demoralized and kept anxious and stressed and fearful. More to come with this. The cultural war is already underway.


I don't even want to think about another summer like summer of 2020, I felt fear seeing people burn shit down that I didn't even feel when I watched the twin towers disintegrate, because that was at least an attack by outsiders, this was my fellow Americans losing their minds and we didn't know how far it was going to go in the early days. 




DeadFish said:


> There is no vision of what comes after. It's going be a slap fight until both sides can't control the other any more. It's going be an era of disintegration.


It's true, a second Civil War isn't going to actually solve anything, it's going to disintegrate everything, but the question is whether that's preferable to a world of absolute tyranny which is what the Woke are trying to build, I guess that's debatable.

But disintegrating is what the human race seems to be doing in the 21st century, we seem to be at our wit's end as a species, we've been getting by with the idea that we leave the world a little better for the next generation than what we had and so on, but now we seem to have progressed to a point that we're realizing that some problems are simply impossible to solve, their insurmountable for us as a species.

Everything we choose to try doesn't seem to work, I think the last big hurrah for the optimistic hope for the future was the election of Obama and the first few years after, we felt like we made the right choice and that was going to lead to things starting to get better, but it was a lie, instead everything only got worse, to such a degree that it feels like a sick joke.

I definitely have a pretty "fuck it" attitude because of that, I was a big believer in the Obama movement but I got burned very badly by that and what else can we really do now? We tried doing the opposite of Obama with Trump and that didn't work either, what more can we really do now?



L50LasPak said:


> I would like to clarify that despite my previous comments I am all in favor of a Second Civil War. The way I see it, a bunch of people I absolutely despise will fucking die on both sides while my irrelevant neck of the woods will more than likely see no action at all.
> 
> I've actually had a frequent daydream about just this sort of thing. I call the The American Reckoning, less a civil conflict in the conventional sense and more one large and chaotic historical episode with the potential to last three or four generations. An era where all of the shortcuts and oversights we've arrogantly allowed to exist on our watch come back to haunt us with a vengeance. Common culture being overtaken by two caricatures of liberal and conservative, each representing their worst aspects, made more and more extreme by the media. The same way one would has to slowly and carefully enrich the precious Uranium 235 and Plutonium 239 materials you would eventually place into the casket of a nuclear warhead.
> 
> ...


Well ain't you just Mr Sunshine? You're not wrong though.

People accuse me of being a Doomer but you put me to shame, again, you're not wrong though.




Drag-on Knight 91873 said:


> You really asked a mouthful there. I could just say "See Yuri Bezmenov," but I think blaming communism for everything is an oversimplification and implies more intent on ideological subversion than what is warranted.
> 
> The problem is an intergenerational one that started IMO with the hippies and subsequent gaslighting of them as noble pacifists. They were not. They were directionless teenagers that didn't like the iron fist leadership of the Silent generation. Unfortunately, these young boomers were willing to listen to any charismatic or artistic leader most notably Charles Manson who convinced his harem of women to murder a rising actress. Extreme example, but the mindset of the hippies was to follow the most ostentatious counter-culture artists of that time. Boomers, like Mayor Durkan refer to the Summer of Love to get normies to think of Woodstock. To which the counter to that overrated concert is Altamont. These hippies had two choices: sell out and become productive yuppies or become adjunct professors. These people were definitely subverted based on how the myth of the noble hippie comes from them.
> 
> ...


You mention literary deconstruction, that eventually started to bleed into the rest of culture too, I noticed there was a huge wave of deconstructionist media in the year 2012, the early days of Woke, movies like The Cabin In The Woods, Seven Psychopaths and video games like Spec Ops: The Line (and Bioshock Infinite from the following year)

That kind of stuff felt exciting and fresh at the time, but it set a bad tone, eventually resulting in deconstructionism or as they like to call it: "subverting your expectations" basically being the default mode for pop culture now, culminating in The Last Jedi.

The trouble with that is it's like a magician giving away the secret to his tricks, it takes all the "magic" out of it.

Art matters, culture matters, if all we're doing at the moment is basically destroying art and culture, setting fire to it all, carving a path of destruction through it, what does that say about society as a whole if our culture is just reflective of our society?


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> It's true, a second Civil War isn't going to actually solve anything, it's going to disintegrate everything, but the question is whether that's preferable to a world of absolute tyranny which is what the Woke are trying to build, I guess that's debatable.
> 
> But disintegrating is what the human race seems to be doing in the 21st century, we seem to be at our wit's end as a species, we've been getting by with the idea that we leave the world a little better for the next generation than what we had and so on, but now we seem to have progressed to a point that we're realizing that some problems are simply impossible to solve, their insurmountable for us as a species.


Who said dissentgration will be a result of a civil war?

Take Texas and the recent snow storm. The grid will be fine. Everything else related to water won't. All those pipes bursting? Lots of water damage. A lot of buildings are going have weak points. That's going lead to many collapsing eventually. Pipes under ground? That's start of many a sink hole. Eventually those sink holes will grow. That will destroy infrastructure such as roads and buildings. Ruining of infrastructure means destruction of the technology and systems used to ensure control and conformity. So from this re primitivization you'll see micro polities form then try to break off.

Kinda how rome evolved as a splinter here and a splinter there broke off.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 7, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> Who said dissentgration will be a result of a civil war?
> 
> Take Texas and the recent snow storm. The grid will be fine. Everything else related to water won't. All those pipes bursting? Lots of water damage. A lot of buildings are going have weak points. That's going lead to many collapsing eventually. Pipes under ground? That's start of many a sink hole. Eventually those sink holes will grow. That will destroy infrastructure such as roads and buildings. Ruining of infrastructure means destruction of the technology and systems used to ensure control and conformity. So from this re primitivization you'll see micro polities form then try to break off.
> 
> Kinda how rome evolved as a splinter here and a splinter there broke off.


That was my point, we seem to be doing a lot of disintegrating in the 21st century, civil war or not.


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> Well ain't you just Mr Sunshine? You're not wrong though.
> 
> People accuse me of being a Doomer but you put me to shame, again, you're not wrong though.


Its worth noting that I don't voice my negative opinions for the smug satisfaction of being correct when the world burns down around me. The reality is that its either voice them, or stare at the wall all day and still feel the same way.

Even if I'm incorrect about the scale of the devastion, it should still remind people that destruction, disease, famine, rape, torture and other senseless suffering is what war is all about. And that those things are inevitable if war occurs. I don't think people are aware of what they stand to lose in the event that a war does occur. I'm fine with it because I'm resigned to the idea. Other people, not so much I wager. 

After all, don't go to war if you aren't willing to do everything it takes to win. This whole thread starts with a man lamenting senseless destruction on a relatively small scale; I'd be interested to see how much of it he'd be willing to see on a large scale before he might get second thoughts about it.


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## OrionBalls (Mar 7, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> Actually don't need to kill or destroy anything. This is a war of symbolism and perspective management.
> 
> Alot of farmers here have posted about the upcoming inflation.
> 
> ...


That sort of thing already exists in places where people work the land. A dozen brown eggs gets you a gallon of fresh milk. An old junker can be traded to the scrap man for a plow attachment.


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> Its worth noting that I don't voice my negative opinions for the smug satisfaction of being correct when the world burns down around me. The reality is that its either voice them, or stare at the wall all day and still feel the same way.
> 
> Even if I'm incorrect about the scale of the devastion, it should still remind people that destruction, disease, famine, rape, torture and other senseless suffering is what war is all about. And that those things are inevitable if war occurs. I don't think people are aware of what they stand to lose in the event that a war does occur. I'm fine with it because I'm resigned to the idea. Other people, not so much I wager.
> 
> After all, don't go to war if you aren't willing to do everything it takes to win. This whole thread starts with a man lamenting senseless destruction on a relatively small scale; I'd be interested to see how much of it he'd be willing to see on a large scale before he might get second thoughts about it.


We have the saying "war is Hell" for a reason.

Did you ever see the Joe Dante directed episode of the TV series Masters of Horror, Homecoming? Which to some degree was about the deep divide that exists in American culture as far back as the year 2005, it ends with the quote "you will see you the true face of war, the face of Hell"


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 7, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> We have the saying "war is Hell" for a reason.
> 
> Did you ever see the Joe Dante directed episode of the TV series Masters of Horror, Homecoming? Which to some degree was about the deep divide that exists in American culture as far back as the year 2005, it ends with the quote "you will see you the true face of war, the face of Hell"


war isn't hell dummy. that phrase comes from modern war. back in the day things were different. people died all the time so volunteering for the military was no big deal, and was even welcomed change for many people who wanted to travel the world. 

modern war is different. you can't just say "war is hell" when wars were different. you're comparing apples to oranges


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 7, 2021)

I expect we are entering a period of history very similar to that of the early renaissance. When you want to talk about the most deadly inventions ever crafted by the hand of man, nothing and I mean nothing humans have created has killed more people then the printing press. It took over a century for Germany to recover to its pre-30 years war population. The American and French Revolutions would have been impossible without it. The Printing Press didn't just upset the standing social order in the West, it DESTROYED it. And millions of lives along the way.

But it also gave us the scientific method, the birth of liberalism and representative republics. Which in turn allowed the West to essentially conquer the world in the 19th century. It only took two centuries of murder and mayhem to sort out. Increasingly I have concluded the Internet and Mass Media is an invention on the same scale to this. Possibly even more dangerous then the Printing Press, because the proliferation of information has made the "economy of thought" cheap. In a market of infinite choice, you will go for what confirms your own biases. I find myself guilty of this repeatedly. Go over to A&N and tell them Biden is doing a good job and just watch the meltdown and neg ratings. I fear the long term psychological consequences of this, especially since the only way for any information to rise above the infinite sea of it is if it is somehow "engaging". Meaning "Fear and Rage are the order the of the day rather then "Logic and Reason". Millions of people siloed into their own little corners, only engaging with information that confirms what they think they already know, and from that information selecting ONLY the sources that stoke their worst impulses. I don't need a degree in psychology to know where that can lead.

As for how we can get out of this mess? I have no idea. People need to chill the fuck out but they are not. The leadership class are engaging in the same psychologically destructive behaviors as the masses they so disdain. I doubt there is any grand conspiracy. Its a Stand Alone Complex of enormous scale pushing history to its ultimate conclusion in the same way Asimov's Foundation series theorized could be done given sufficient knowledge of statistics and human group behavior. That is what truly terrifies me. The people who are so confident they are in charge of the ship have not realized the currents of history have seized them. They think they are in control of the ship, but will soon realize their arrogance once they try and turn the rudder or roll up the sails. The Ship will keep on going on its course no matter what they do or try.

I have some modicum of hope though. Heinlein believed that after the Social Scientists, Technocratic "Experts", and their misbegotten youth had driven society into the ground, a new order would rise, as it inevitably does to reassert control. It would be based around liberal principles and protect basic rights, but the only way you could vote or participate in civil government would be after engaging with civil responsibility first. The best quote from the book is "Intelligence is not an accurate measure of Civic Virtue". More people should read Starship Troopers honestly.


----------



## IAmNotAlpharius (Mar 7, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> war isn't hell dummy. that phrase comes from modern war. back in the day things were different. people died all the time so volunteering for the military was no big deal, and was even welcomed change for many people who wanted to travel the world.
> 
> modern war is different. you can't just say "war is hell" when wars were different. you're comparing apples to oranges


Melee combat probably screwed with people more psychologically because it was up close and personal. It’s not like the movies where someone gets hit once and they just fall over lifeless. There’s benefits then and now in terms of social mobility too.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> Its worth noting that I don't voice my negative opinions for the smug satisfaction of being correct when the world burns down around me. The reality is that its either voice them, or stare at the wall all day and still feel the same way.
> 
> Even if I'm incorrect about the scale of the devastion, it should still remind people that destruction, disease, famine, rape, torture and other senseless suffering is what war is all about. And that those things are inevitable if war occurs. I don't think people are aware of what they stand to lose in the event that a war does occur. I'm fine with it because I'm resigned to the idea. Other people, not so much I wager.
> 
> After all, don't go to war if you aren't willing to do everything it takes to win. This whole thread starts with a man lamenting senseless destruction on a relatively small scale; I'd be interested to see how much of it he'd be willing to see on a large scale before he might get second thoughts about it.


Bad things happen. For most of human existence that level of suffering was the norm.

Also for most of humanity s existence the question was how to weather such things. Modern man's mistake was asking how to stop and control such things.


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## NeoGAF Lurker (Mar 7, 2021)

ConfederateIrishman said:


> They're not going to do it. This is an advanced form of coping (s-surely things will not just get worse, right?! S-surely fellow Americans will defend liberty with me!)
> 
> It is just venting on a website ultimately.
> 
> ...


This is “conservatism” in a nutshell in 2021: a series of copes while clinging tighter to failed concepts like get woke go broke, horseshoe theory, and deus ex machinas that will save them.

I’d say going to the countryside was a valid option but now that every shitlord gets the SWAT treatment, they are banking hard on Ruby Ridge part deux but this time leveraging the left’s total control of institutions to use it for pushing more anti-white laws.

At this time I think the only real viable option if you want to escape is going elsewhere to ascendant nations who actually will prize your skill sets and talents rather than discard you for not loving nigger tranny faggots enough.

Although I reserve the right to laugh at people who think baste minorities are finally going to emerge or think voting for fake and gay clowns like Ron DeSantis is going to do anything. The real solution is either go where you are valued or stand up for yourselves and that’s not voting for Cruz or Hawley.


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## DuckSucker (Mar 7, 2021)

Rusty Crab said:


> Yeah that's worked very well for us so far
> 
> I believe a significant chunk of this BLM shit is genuine fear over blacks chimping out and killing CEOs of these companies. That is a very real possibility, mind you, because they're so demonstrably violent. Whites have thus far, been completely docile and well behaved in the face of being shit on. I do believe fear of crowds is the difference here.


Dude BLM has been like 90% rich middle-upper class white kids. Remember that girl who posed naked in front of cops in Portland, they called her 'Athena'?

This is where everyone is getting it wrong. Im pulling numbers out of my ass but like at least half of it is OWS holdovers and the other half are just fucking bored.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

NeoGAF Lurker said:


> This is “conservatism” in a nutshell in 2021: a series of copes while clinging tighter to failed concepts like get woke go broke, horseshoe theory, and deus ex machinas that will save them.
> 
> I’d say going to the countryside was a valid option but now that every shitlord gets the SWAT treatment, they are banking hard on Ruby Ridge part deux but this time leveraging the left’s total control of institutions to use it for pushing more anti-white laws.
> 
> ...


Conservatives needs a new identity or world view.  I would suggest tribal nationalism. I think I've explained my platform already.

If you want me to go
into further details into the ideas then fine I guess? Folks sure could use a laugh. As spergy my views may get at least I'm offering an alternative to the current dictomony


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> Generation X were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.



Fixed that for you


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

Syaoran Li said:


> Fixed that for you


They're guilty of a great deal but they never really achieved the level of power and influence the baby boomers did.


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## Arm Pit Cream (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> As a younger person I'm forced to ask why you stupid fucking people trusted these bastards in the first place.
> 
> You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.
> 
> Boomers were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.





L50LasPak said:


> I would like to clarify that despite my previous comments I am all in favor of a Second Civil War. The way I see it, a bunch of people I absolutely despise will fucking die on both sides while my irrelevant neck of the woods will more than likely see no action at all.
> 
> I've actually had a frequent daydream about just this sort of thing. I call it The American Reckoning, less a civil conflict in the conventional sense and more one large and chaotic historical episode with the potential to last three or four generations. An era where all of the shortcuts and oversights we've arrogantly allowed to exist on our watch come back to haunt us with a vengeance. Common culture being overtaken by two caricatures of liberal and conservative, each representing their worst aspects, made more and more extreme by the media. The same way one would has to slowly and carefully enrich the precious Uranium 235 and Plutonium 239 materials you would eventually place into the casket of a nuclear warhead.
> 
> ...


I like how you complained that people like you don't have any power, then proved as to why people such as yourself shouldn't have any power.


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> They're guilty of a great deal but they never really achieved the level of power and influence the baby boomers did.



Nah, the Boomers are largely used as a scapegoat by Millennials and Zoomers, a trend that was spearheaded by Generation X (who not only hate the Boomers but benefit from the generational A-Logging of them)

Most of the corporate bigwigs that actually run this country and their lackeys in academia and media are Generation X'ers. Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg are X'ers, Jeff Bezos is an older X'er but he's still firmly with Gen X. Bill Gates is a younger Boomer but is the kind of Late Boomer who has more in common with the Gen X mindset than your typical Boomer.

The Boomers in politics are merely a tool for the corporations to wield their power more efficiently.

Fuck Gen X. They're the real cause of the problems and they let the Boomers take most of the blame.

I unironically deeply admire the Baby Boomers. I have nothing but raw searing hatred and contempt for Generation X and Millennials, and I say that as a Late Millennial myself (in4 "le wrong generation" bullshit)

I pity the Zoomers more than anything. The X'ers and their woke Millennial lapdogs ruined everything before they could even have a chance.

God Bless The Boomers and God Damn The Millennials and X'ers.

Also, why would you want a nuclear apocalypse? Like seriously, you do realize Fallout was just a video game, right?


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## Samson Pumpkin Jr. (Mar 7, 2021)

Stuff breaks people die. if lots of people die who cares?


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 7, 2021)

Austrian Conscript 1915 said:


> Stuff breaks people die. if lots of people die who cares?



Posts like this is why we need the trash can and puzzle piece stickers back on this sub-forum.


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

Arm Pit Cream said:


> I like how you complained that people like you don't have any power, then proved as to why people such as yourself shouldn't have any power.


You assume I'm the only one of my kind though. There are lots of people like me who do have power and people like you are quite poorly equipped when it comes to noticing them. You just see me because I'm disaffected and defective. 



Syaoran Li said:


> Also, why would you want a nuclear apocalypse? Like seriously, you do realize Fallout was just a video game, right?


Despite all of my cynicism I still have a warped and beaten but deeply unsatisfied sense of justice. It would bring me a great deal of comfort to know that generations of arrogance and rampant, unmitigated stupidity will be rewarded with at least utter destruction. I obviously have no interest surviving in the aftermath of such a scenario and would quickly dispose of myself once the reality of the situation set. Something I think that a lot of people aren't actually prepared to do.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> You assume I'm the only one of my kind though. There are lots of people like me who do have power and people like you are quite poorly equipped when it comes to noticing them. You just see me because I'm disaffected and defective.


I don't. I realize both sides are undergoing a form of collective ideation. The only difference is the left is unware of these impulses while the right is aware of such feelings. We as a collective want to die as a culture and turn everything associated with it into ash.


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## mindlessobserver (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> You assume I'm the only one of my kind though. There are lots of people like me who do have power and people like you are quite poorly equipped when it comes to noticing them. You just see me because I'm disaffected and defective.
> 
> 
> Despite all of my cynicism I still have a warped and beaten but deeply unsatisfied sense of justice. It would bring me a great deal of comfort to know that generations of arrogance and rampant, unmitigated stupidity will be rewarded with at least utter destruction. I obviously have no interest surviving in the aftermath of such a scenario and would quickly dispose of myself once the reality of the situation set. Something I think that a lot of people aren't actually prepared to do.


Wow and I thought I was a blackpilled.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> Wow and I thought I was a blackpilled.





			https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIIEd8M0es
		


Destroying is conquering. It's true. I looked it up




Syaoran Li said:


> .
> 
> Also, why would you want a nuclear apocalypse? Like seriously, you do realize Fallout was just a video game, right?


Because anything worth doing isn't worth doing half assed.


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## Maurice Caine (Mar 7, 2021)

I ain't American and frankly, it's an entirely different reality than what's around me but something that strikes me as odd is that in random youtube videos you get comments like this:




The video in question is this one, now you can tell me whatever you like but this isn't exactly normal, is it?


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> I don't. I realize both sides are undergoing a form of collective ideation. The only difference is the left is unware of these impulses while the right is aware of such feelings. We as a collective want to die as a culture and turn everything associated with it into ash.


It seems self evident to me that both sides are incapable of seeing what you're talking about. Believe it or not, the left wing is quite willing to acknowledge what they precieve as flaws in their movement, the same as the right is. Of course, when both sides do that, all of their flaws boil down to "WHY AREN'T WE WINNING HARDER? _WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?_" and that introspection is clearly self-serving and directed at making the movement more effective. Just a means to an end, nothing more.

The reality is much worse than either party is willing to acknowledge. They're both cut from the same cloth and subject to the same societal and economic forces, the product of the exact same set of deep seated human instincts that people have become so used to ignoring. This is why its impossible to make peace between these two factions. In a complicated way they aren't even factions at all, but reactions to a set of circumstances that were really out of everyone's hands in the beginning.

This isn't to absolve anyone of the guilt they undoubtedly have for continuing to participate; the actions taken by commoners were and are just as self-serving and short sighted as the actions taken by our leadership and the powers that be. We'll all surely hang together on this one.


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## FAQnews Correspondent (Mar 7, 2021)

Maurice Caine said:


> I ain't American and frankly, it's an entirely different reality than what's around me but something that strikes me as odd is that in random youtube videos you get comments like this:
> View attachment 1976726
> The video in question is this one, now you can tell me whatever you like but this isn't exactly normal, is it?


Any piece of media from years ago is naturally going to have comments like that. It's a time capsule of a time when everything was much more affordable, people were happier, and there was hope for that things would at worst, not get worse. People look back at a time where it wasn't despair, and they will inevitably compare it to how they live today.

Here's another comment chain from the same video.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> It seems self evident to me that both sides are incapable of seeing what you're talking about. Believe it or not, the left wing is quite willing to acknowledge what they precieve as flaws in their movement, the same as the right is. Of course, when both sides do that, all of their flaws boil down to "WHY AREN'T WE WINNING HARDER? _WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?_" and that introspection is clearly self-serving and directed at making the movement more effective. Just a means to an end, nothing more.
> 
> The reality is much worse than either party is willing to acknowledge. They're both cut from the same cloth and subject to the same societal and economic forces, the product of the exact same set of deep seated human instincts that people have become so used to ignoring. This is why its impossible to make peace between these two factions. In a complicated way they aren't even factions at all, but reactions to a set of circumstances that were really out of everyone's hands in the beginning.
> 
> This isn't to absolve anyone of the guilt they undoubtedly have for continuing to participate; the actions taken by commoners were and are just as self-serving and short sighted as the actions taken by our leadership and the powers that be. We'll all surely hang together on this one.


I'm a practitioner what's call paradigm shifting. It's where you make your self buy in completely into one world view for a set amount of time then buy into what's considered the opposite of that world view for another period of time.

For example be a hard core raging atheist for three months. Then after three months go hard core muslim. Switch back and forth until both seem like the same.

Why am I saying this? Because I don't buy into both sides bs. What I see is two groups with exact same desires just expressed in a different way.

As many mentioned here these woke people may not be atheists but sure as hell treat their idealogy in the same way their christian fundie parents treated the st james bible.

A guitar plucked by a bluesman or a jazzman make no difference that it was plucked.

What I'm seeing collectively (despite idealogy) if seen in an individual would be considered a sign of being suicidal.

Both sides are feeling this last resort papa roach Fuck you dad rage. It's that both groups  don't share the same means of processing, expressing and handling said rage.

And yes the right very capable of seeing what I'm talking about. Talk politics long enough  to one long enough and they will say
This whole shin dig needs to burn. They will also say they'll be too happy light match to get it going. I guess the right is more self aware then the left.

Where the left is setting things on fire but refusing to acknowledge same feelings. They LL just claim they're fighting facism or something.


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## Odnovo (Mar 7, 2021)

The only thing that I'm sure about is economic collapse.


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## Michael Jacks0n (Mar 7, 2021)

Maurice Caine said:


> I ain't American and frankly, it's an entirely different reality than what's around me but something that strikes me as odd is that in random youtube videos you get comments like this:
> View attachment 1976726
> The video in question is this one, now you can tell me whatever you like but this isn't exactly normal, is it?


What's funny is that a few years ago I distinctly remembering watching another Blues Brothers clip on YouTube [the scene where the Nazis have an outdoor rally in Chicago], and the top comments with the most likes were people saying it looks like a Trump or GOP rally. This was around 2016.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

Odnovo said:


> The only thing that I'm sure about is economic collapse.


So you're saying we'll get some affordable toilet paper?


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> And yes the right very capable of seeing what I'm talking about. Talk politics long enough to one long enough and they will say
> This whole shin dig needs to burn. They will also say they'll be too happy light match to get it going. I guess the right is more self aware then the left.


Yes people like to think that don't they. If either side had the level of self-awareness they claimed to we wouldn't be in this situation though. Personally I've found that self-awareness can be misleading. I've met some quite delusional people who are very self-aware on a wide range of subjects but show none at all when it comes to their personal flaws. I suppose we're all that way, inevitably.

I do agree that both of these "sides" are infact one and the same, and just different expressions though. I find it somewhat difficult to sum up properly though.


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## Maurice Caine (Mar 7, 2021)

Michael Jacks0n said:


> What's funny is that a few years ago I distinctly remembering watching another Blues Brothers clip on YouTube [the scene where the Nazis have an outdoor rally in Chicago], and the top comments with the most likes were people saying it looks like a Trump or GOP rally. This was around 2016.


Meh, these guys probably didn't even watch the damn movie.


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## l00n3ytr00nz (Mar 7, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> I feel it in my bones that it's going to happen, it's inevitable by this point, what SJW/Woke is is a war on truth itself, they want to kill the very concept of truth dead, think about the real implications of that and you will realize that no group of human beings have had a more justified reason to fight a war in all of human history until now, they make the Nazis look like boyscouts, what better reason to fight than to preserve the very concept of truth itself?
> 
> One of these days your submission is going to come down to a gun pointed at your face, that is inevitable, SJWs/Woke use propaganda to try to get you to submit now, but it's going to come down to brass tacks and they're going to make it clear one day "submit or we'll kill you" and why should we just let that happen?
> 
> Anyone who denies a war is needed to sort this shit out is a coward, plain and simple, I'm not saying you personally have to fight, I'm not saying I would personally fight or could even do that, but anyone that handwaves the idea that a war is needed to stop SJWs severely underestimates the magnitude of this problem, they are quite literally the worst evil the human race has ever produced and if they're not stopped one day they _will _try and kill you if you don't submit, I guarantee you this.



Franco did nothing wrong.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> Yes people like to think that don't they. If either side had the level of self-awareness they claimed to we wouldn't be in this situation though. Personally I've found that self-awareness can be misleading. I've met some quite delusional people who are very self-aware on a wide range of subjects but show none at all when it comes to their personal flaws. I suppose we're all that way, inevitably.
> 
> I do agree that both of these "sides" are infact one and the same, and just different expressions though. I find it somewhat difficult to sum up properly though.


Learn a new language to get out of your current expression limits? I suggest sanskrit.


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## L50LasPak (Mar 7, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> Learn a new language to get out of your current expression limits? I suggest sanskrit.


That would be overkill for my purposes.


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## DeadFish (Mar 7, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> That would be overkill for my purposes.


No such thing as over kill when trying to over come ones blind spots.

Delving into a culture that is extreme alien and foreign to yours is a sure way to do that.


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## BarebackTop-TakeMyLoad (Mar 7, 2021)

Emperor Julian said:


> I think if you think sjw's vs poltards are going to generate a civil war you need to log of the internet and never return.


exactly. 90% of the population doesn't think like Twitter or parlour.

Employed well adjusted people don't think like that. It's easy to get on all this culture war bs when you just sit on the internet all day and read your echo chambers. If you've got hobbies, a job and family you're not worrying about "terfs" or even probably know what those are.


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## Mother puss bucket (Mar 8, 2021)

Kujo Jotaro said:


> I don't know what it is about mask spergs but they're the worst on both sides. The people who rant about masks either being the ultimate infringement on our freedom, or the only path to salvation are equally insufferable. OP you're a baby, you finally get a little taste of covid precautions at work(at the tail end no less) and you flip a tit?
> 
> Your depiction of a clownish world is somewhat accurate, but its unrealistic in the sense that anyone would be willing to fight and die for a political cause outside of speds online. The riots were not a coherent political movement, because by their very nature riots can't be coherent. What you saw was a sample of the people you live shoulder to shoulder with. You're not wrong to want to leave, but I think you'll be disappointed if you expect to find any real support for your civil war ambitions/predictions in the country side.


Riots not being a coherent political movement should be more worrying. It means there are very large numbers of people willing to murder and burn on a whim. You can say what you want about blacks racial traits on the matter but that's irrelevant. If they decide to start an ethnic cleanse on a whim the people targeted won't be protected by the police. It might not be on a mass scale but it doesn't have to be if enough of them decide to do it and egg each other on.

OP, you write an interesting story. There is obviously a massive divide in people and ideological warfare. Civil war does seem likely but the outcome won't be very good for any one. The soviet union lasted for decades after the revolution took over. We like to think the good guys will always win out and our side will win the big wars but what is the reality of that? You hate those people, you hate the Amazon vans and the big corps who enslave you as you put it. But those same groups are going to be able to out gun you, out man you with mercenaries and have technology to kill you from ranges you can't even see. As a soldier you know what war looks like for the guy in a cave with an AK. Do you think a civil war would end in the conservatives favour?


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## HOMO FOR LIFE (Mar 8, 2021)

lol no smart rebel is going to use a public forum like this and discuss their plans so openly. Hell they are going to use internet to discuss everything but rebellion lol.


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## DeadFish (Mar 8, 2021)

HOMO FOR LIFE said:


> lol no smart rebel is going to use a public forum like this and discuss their plans so openly. Hell they are going to use internet to discuss everything but rebellion lol.


They've would've gotten started at least a decade ago, would've gotten some results by now and won't need kiwfarms for they would be already working with an established group.


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## ResurrectedFerret (Mar 13, 2021)

L50LasPak said:


> I obviously have no interest surviving in the aftermath of such a scenario and would quickly dispose of myself once the reality of the situation set. Something I think that a lot of people aren't actually prepared to do.


Damn, dude! You're so cool!


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## Soulless4510 (Mar 14, 2021)

A lot of the issues that plague the Western world started back in the 1920s by a man called Edward Bernays thanks to his use of Psychoanalysis and working with big business he made sure that the masses unconscious desires are in charge and a responsible elite will be the ones doing all of the hard decisions.

Watch The Century of the Self and see that it wasn't Gen-x or the Boomers who fucked things up it was Big Business and Edward Bernays







​


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## ZeCommissar (Mar 14, 2021)

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
SKULLS FOR THE SKULLS THRONE!
LET THE UNITED STATES BURN!


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 15, 2021)

Mother puss bucket said:


> Riots not being a coherent political movement should be more worrying. It means there are very large numbers of people willing to murder and burn on a whim. You can say what you want about blacks racial traits on the matter but that's irrelevant. If they decide to start an ethnic cleanse on a whim the people targeted won't be protected by the police. It might not be on a mass scale but it doesn't have to be if enough of them decide to do it and egg each other on.
> 
> OP, you write an interesting story. There is obviously a massive divide in people and ideological warfare. Civil war does seem likely but the outcome won't be very good for any one. The soviet union lasted for decades after the revolution took over. We like to think the good guys will always win out and our side will win the big wars but what is the reality of that? You hate those people, you hate the Amazon vans and the big corps who enslave you as you put it. But those same groups are going to be able to out gun you, out man you with mercenaries and have technology to kill you from ranges you can't even see. As a soldier you know what war looks like for the guy in a cave with an AK. Do you think a civil war would end in the conservatives favour?


I think this is one thing that people forget, a second American Civil War would snowball by a lot, multinational corporations are not going to lose their hegemony without a big fight, if they couldn't control the US military they'd send in UN forces, Chinese forces, whatever military forces they could muster for a land invasion of the US.

It's unlikely a war like that would do anything but make the world that much worse a place, going out of the proverbial frying pan and into the literal fire, to where even if the "good guys" won there's no telling how much it could potentially wreck the world.

This is why that's something we should work on avoiding and the pen is mightier than the sword as they say anyway.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Mar 15, 2021)

mindlessobserver said:


> America, we have a problem. A very BIG problem. I can handwave away my own dislike of the people around me, the current trajectory of our culture, and even the wildly different interpretations of the "mostly peaceful protests". While the media and the political establishment, including out current Vice President heralded positive and peaceful protests for change..., I saw "violent riots and state sanctioned murder". But that's just my opinion. An opinion also held by my coworker. But also just his. The very last straw for me, something I ranted on yesterday in chat was a 3 by 4 foot plexiglass "cough shield" suspended from the ceiling in front of my work desk, and everyone elses' work desk. So that when we interact with clients we can do so "safely". And the stupid things were suspended a foot away from the keyboard meaning in order to use my computer the damn thing has to smash against my face. Repeatedly. Over and Over again. 2020 saw "peaceful protestors" rampage through my neighborhood destroying property. It saw me forced to put masks on my face, witness businesses and cultural institutions I loved get eviscerated while big corporations like Amazon were allowed to pick up the slack. I now see even more Amazon vehicles then I do United States Post Office vehicles. Every time that plexi glass shield is smashing into my face (every day since Wednesday, March 3rd 2021 for people reading this in the future) I see the proverbial boot of the inner party stepping on the face of man. Over and Over again. It was what ultimately pushed me over the edge and led me to confide in private that I no longer just disagreed with the people of this city. I HATED them. And I found out my coworker hated them too.


This will never lead to a civil war on its own.  War is like a Flame; there must be a flammability, spark and oxygen.  You have the oxygen of SJWs pushing you and pushing you.  You have the flammability potential in that you can see yourself potentially reacting to the SJWs in quite the explosive or flammable way.  However there must still be a spark, which is not an individual person's events but a universal division where a people must all act such as pushing the vaccine too hard, a hard/fast federal gun grab resulting in enough shootouts that state governors deploy state assets to stop it, or making sane people somehow romantically act with a transgender.  The mass defection must be a spark in a powderkeg (which I think is here now, but the Stamp Act of 1765 was eleven years before the spark in 1776 commenced)



Dom Cruise said:


> I feel it in my bones that it's going to happen, it's inevitable by this point, what SJW/Woke is is a war on truth itself, they want to kill the very concept of truth dead, think about the real implications of that and you will realize that no group of human beings have had a more justified reason to fight a war in all of human history until now, they make the Nazis look like boyscouts, what better reason to fight than to preserve the very concept of truth itself?
> 
> One of these days your submission is going to come down to a gun pointed at your face, that is inevitable, SJWs/Woke use propaganda to try to get you to submit now, but it's going to come down to brass tacks and they're going to make it clear one day "submit or we'll kill you" and why should we just let that happen?
> 
> Anyone who denies a war is needed to sort this shit out is a coward, plain and simple, I'm not saying you personally have to fight, I'm not saying I would personally fight or could even do that, but anyone that handwaves the idea that a war is needed to stop SJWs severely underestimates the magnitude of this problem, they are quite literally the worst evil the human race has ever produced and if they're not stopped one day they _will _try and kill you if you don't submit, I guarantee you this.


Everyone submits to evil in the history books when they are not led by righteous men, civil wars happen because two rival power bases fight.  Those are the two hard truths of politics.  War is only ever a continuation of politics by other means.  If there are no aggrieved founding fathers forming together, if there is, in other words, no hierarchy of power (democratic or otherwise), then there is no war.  Gamergate could have led to a war if a genuine hard power force like the police or the military truly wanted to solve EA or whoever's Social Justice initiatives with horror and blood.  Ridiculous scenario sure, but if you can hand-wave a general that nuts then the rest follows because actual power is acting out.  Who are the angry dukes, sullen businessmen, or existing military men in the civil war to come?  The founding fathers did not differ dramatically from the Loyalists, except they were generally younger and less senior in their wide range of high and middle-status occupations.  When you can name them, when you can actually state the leadership of your side with a certainty that everyone else on your side would say the same names if not the whole list, then count the number of years until war at a max of 5 and likely crazily faster.



Dom Cruise said:


> I think 2021 is going to be the breaking point, either things are actually going to start getting better or this is when a apocalyptic scale event like a war is going to happen.
> 
> I'm telling you guys, I feel it in my gut that something's about to break and it's going to break big.


Things will break yes, trust in the federal government will shatter and I believe we will see a military without a right-leaning soldiery sustain huge casualties in what will then be called a victory anyway.  Maybe Venezuela or Iran perhaps?  But so long as the flag attracts legions of stupid kids who assume patriotism and jingoism are synonymous, then the federal government will stick around, just with more and more of a fortified high-security district in central Washington, DC.  The fact that you can lay out the _"1/6 was an attempted self-coup stopped only by the Vice President"_ talking point on CNN and the nation doesn't really react shows the situation is dire.  The sides are that far apart and the left doesn't care to stop progressing their attempts at furthering the divide still more.  They think they are invincible because they won the Hollywood, Academia, Journalistic side of the fight decades ago.



mindlessobserver said:


> The FBI cannot spy on your phone without a warrant. But If you have a cell phone plan from AT&T and use Google applications, both AT&T and Google can spy on it for "quality assurance purposes", and then own that data. Which the FBI can then "ask" them for. No warrant required.


This could be a source of legitimacy for a new power to rise in America, if a "Patriotic People's Party" ran on Snowden being a hero and corporations being the great evil for selfish reasons then the left would have a hard time arguing for the Democratic Party and the Republican Party would probably adopt their platform in 5 years if they continue shifting as they are.  Sarah Palin came out for Julian Assange to be pardoned for God's sake.  That party or movement, would be a spark leading to great escalations and potential war if the two sides don't deescalate and compromise away the current divide.



DeadFish said:


> Non violence is the key here. If you can trick them into being violent against a non violent action then you'll get the ball rolling in your favor. You have to get their goat by fucking with something they value. Game stop stocks is great example of this. For some reason theyre super sensitive about money. Go that route.
> 
> Or least bait them into exhausting their resources over something small. The 6/1 protest did just this. A bunch of boomers stealing a podium is an insurection? Oh please.... The d.c lockdown is costing them more then the so called riot.


We are living in the Boston Tea Party era of the current troubles.  Three years before the touchoff of hostiles, one year before the First Continental Congress which made a petition for redress.  However unless there is more escalations on both sides, and organizers becoming known on the out-of-power side then this will stop ineffectually and while there will still be a cold civil war or a culture war things will solidify and normalize.  The New Normal will become known not as a mass implementation of neoliberal policies, but the permanent-seeming problems and faults within America being thought unsolvable or denied so the resulting bad conditions from these open wounds in American going unfixed will be normalized.



Canaan said:


> 5. chill out super hard because its probably not happening in this lifetime


Depends if 2060 is 'this lifetime'.  I think the problems aren't going to be fixed and there will come a political party or social group that empowers itself from these problems.  From there, once there are people trusted who benefit from others fighting their civil war?  Its not so silly an idea.  But Civil war is always started by a power base who cannot be adopted into the existing power base.  Be they slavers, generals, or an extremely militarily trained sewing circle.  Two-headed nations always wind up fighting. But the common man will never themselves start a civil war without an organization.



Drag-on Knight 91873 said:


> The culture of the Young Boomers set the cultural archetype for later generations. Gen X effectively doubled down on everything the hippies started. Part of it was due to the rising permissiveness of divorce which led to them becoming the first latchkey generation, which created the basis to hold Silent generation values like the nuclear family into doubt. The other part is Gen X culture was heavily invested in literary deconstruction, where the goal of the art critic is to break down long-standing archetypes to expose the hypocrisy. The target for this generation was often the Silent generation. Married with Children, as much as I love the show, is a deconstructionist take on 50s-60s sitcoms and the nuclear family. Academic Agent also cites Daria as an example of the attitude of the Gen Xer and from her, you can see how the Atheist thought leaders were created. This generation, I don't think anyways, was subverted like the hippies were, but their persistent cynicism did make them numb to the world around them and let's be honest, Kiwi Farms is a site that indulges in this attitude.


Yes, the deconstructions are so powerful that nobody can care about non-materialistic things without seemingly always being sarcastic or cynical about it.  Its so gross seeing people pretend not to like a thing they are clearly draw to.



mindlessobserver said:


> I expect we are entering a period of history very similar to that of the early renaissance. When you want to talk about the most deadly inventions ever crafted by the hand of man, nothing and I mean nothing humans have created has killed more people then the printing press. It took over a century for Germany to recover to its pre-30 years war population. The American and French Revolutions would have been impossible without it. The Printing Press didn't just upset the standing social order in the West, it DESTROYED it. And millions of lives along the way.


I fear a second civil war would precisely be a thirty years war.  Both sides think the other's morality itself is the problem.  Both sides delegitimize all power they do not currently control for fear of it being used against them arbitrarily rather than being used by principle.  Both sides have theories unconsciously about the other: which side prefers rapists to racists and which side prefers racists to rapists?  Third parties will likely try to establish peace zones, and insurgents will likely try to logistically steal and destroy their ability to secure them long term.  I even think large-armies of mercenaries will become substitute forces after a period, and be ceased to be paid while still out in the field leading to the same roving gangs of trained army men.



mindlessobserver said:


> Its a Stand Alone Complex of enormous scale pushing history to its ultimate conclusion in the same way Asimov's Foundation series theorized could be done given sufficient knowledge of statistics and human group behavior. That is what truly terrifies me. The people who are so confident they are in charge of the ship have not realized the currents of history have seized them. They think they are in control of the ship, but will soon realize their arrogance once they try and turn the rudder or roll up the sails. The Ship will keep on going on its course no matter what they do or try.


Their artificial real-or-false pushing of political stances will become a riptide pull of actual policies, like the police defunding.  Most political power revolves around there being a High/Middle/Low Class conflict where, far from the Middle and the Upper getting along, the Middle is the natural competitor of the High.  As such most power bases for the Rich in fact are normally the poor, or High/Low vs Middle power bases.  Revolutions on the other hand occur when the Middle convinces the Low that they can rule better, the American and French Revolutions fit this model but then the new Democratic Elite need to split the Low into new Middle/Low distinctions and fight for the new Low against the new Middle Classes.  Kulaks, American Whites, and the hysterical guillotine usage after they ran out of royals in France.  Even Napoleon used the Republic itself as the enemy of the people and crowned himself in their name.



mindlessobserver said:


> I have some modicum of hope though. Heinlein believed that after the Social Scientists, Technocratic "Experts", and their misbegotten youth had driven society into the ground, a new order would rise, as it inevitably does to reassert control. It would be based around liberal principles and protect basic rights, but the only way you could vote or participate in civil government would be after engaging with civil responsibility first. The best quote from the book is "Intelligence is not an accurate measure of Civic Virtue". More people should read Starship Troopers honestly.


This is a wiser book than the comedy of a movie.  So long as the Youth(Low) can be made to be loyal citizens to the military elite(High) against the civilians(Middle) then the resulting power structure will be far more stable than most modern political philosophers would believe.


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## DeadFish (Mar 15, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> This will never lead to a civil war on its own.  War is like a Flame; there must be a flammability, spark and oxygen.  You have the oxygen of SJWs pushing you and pushing you.  You have the flammability potential in that you can see yourself potentially reacting to the SJWs in quite the explosive or flammable way.  However there must still be a spark, which is not an individual person's events but a universal division where a people must all act such as pushing the vaccine too hard, a hard/fast federal gun grab resulting in enough shootouts that state governors deploy state assets to stop it, or making sane people somehow romantically act with a transgender.  The mass defection must be a spark in a powderkeg (which I think is here now, but the Stamp Act of 1765 was eleven years before the spark in 1776 commenced)
> 
> 
> Everyone submits to evil in the history books when they are not led by righteous men, civil wars happen because two rival power bases fight.  Those are the two hard truths of politics.  War is only ever a continuation of politics by other means.  If there are no aggrieved founding fathers forming together, if there is, in other words, no hierarchy of power (democratic or otherwise), then there is no war.  Gamergate could have led to a war if a genuine hard power force like the police or the military truly wanted to solve EA or whoever's Social Justice initiatives with horror and blood.  Ridiculous scenario sure, but if you can hand-wave a general that nuts then the rest follows because actual power is acting out.  Who are the angry dukes, sullen businessmen, or existing military men in the civil war to come?  The founding fathers did not differ dramatically from the Loyalists, except they were generally younger and less senior in their wide range of high and middle-status occupations.  When you can name them, when you can actually state the leadership of your side with a certainty that everyone else on your side would say the same names if not the whole list, then count the number of years until war at a max of 5 and likely crazily faster.
> ...


When say peaceful I don't mean protest. I mean figuring out non violent ways to destroy everything to avoid backlash.

I also in hitler watch made a list of where the leaders of the next reactionary movement will come from. One would be doomsday cults


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## Cool Dog (Mar 15, 2021)

There wont be a civil war, everybody now has their own portable distraction devices aka: smartphones, to keep them dumb and sedated. Shit getting ugly around you? look at memes in your phone

Dont think about it
Dont think about it
Dont think about it

What you're going through now is a cultural revolution, soon enough public shaming will be made legal, the videos I saw of blm fuckers breaking into restaurants and lecturing people there were not that different from the pics of chinese youths in the 60s. The statue toppling is erasure of history just like those chinese do, soon enough blms and wokies will start burning books for wrongthink just like the chinese did and again nobody will stop them. Then the killings will begin

You know why the chinese are so fucking uncultured and rude? because the cultural revolution basically erased chinese culture and turned every boomer-gen chinese into an troglodyte. These days if you want to see real chinese culture you have to go to HK or taiwan, and those chinese are more well mannered than most westerners

The /pol/ civil war is a larp, they might be able to pull some of their fedposting like fucking with the electrical grid and telecoms. There wont be another oklahoma bombing and you would need hundreds of those to do any actual damage. We had a civil war here in Argentina during the 70s, you had bombing raids, kidnappings, paramilitaries both from the left (montoneros, ERP) and the right (Triple-A) killing each other and whoever was caught in the crossfire. That shit isnt happening in your country and wont happen, the right-wing sucks cop dick and even a prelude to a civil war would mean a lot of cops getting killed, followed with attacks on the military to steal supplies. The left-wing has no reason to do it, they are on top now, the cops work for them so they lick the boot now but at least they have a reason to do it while the right does it FOR FREE

Even if the economy goes worse you will just cope, by the numbers you guys been coping with it since the 70s, same as we did. When shit gets real people dont organize a revolutionary army, they go into survival mode and only think about themselves and for good reason: nobody wants to starve

Nothing will happen, accelerationists wont get their breaking point, the frog is already dead and now its simply being cooked


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 15, 2021)

Haim Arlosoroff said:


> This is a wiser book than the comedy of a movie.  So long as the Youth(Low) can be made to be loyal citizens to the military elite(High) against the civilians(Middle) then the resulting power structure will be far more stable than most modern political philosophers would believe.


The movie is entertaining, but I always thought it was weird when I learned the book was being sincere and the movie was satire, I think it's very reflective of the 1990s, no one could take themes like militarism seriously because hey, it's the 90s and that kind of thing is on it's way out, isn't it? It's the same reason why almost every superhero movie from the 90s is absurd ala Batman and Robin, nobody could take heroism seriously either.

I liked the scene where everyone was naked though.


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## Haim Arlosoroff (Mar 15, 2021)

DeadFish said:


> I also in hitler watch made a list of where the leaders of the next reactionary movement will come from. One would be doomsday cults


Do you have a link, I would be interested to read the list.  I want to know to what extent they even all are aware of the others.


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## DeadFish (Mar 15, 2021)

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/hitlerpool.85810/page-5
		



You're not going get one guy. Nor one large group. A lot of little groups, who will (on their own) will form similar ideals and leaders with similar personalities.

convergent evolution is what's it going be called

The reason for this is cause america falling apart, nature of the new right and military strategy


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## knobslobbin (Mar 15, 2021)

The right will withdraw from troon society and attempt to nullify federal laws at first, and when that fails try and secede. It will be the left that attacks first. I hope the good guys win.

But in the meantime why the FUCK is it so hard to buy a goddamn wankstation 5? Someone whip those goddamn lazy chinks into producing playstations faster!   (I'm just assuming that even Japanese hardware is made in China now)


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## Syaoran Li (Mar 16, 2021)

Dom Cruise said:


> The movie is entertaining, but I always thought it was weird when I learned the book was being sincere and the movie was satire, I think it's very reflective of the 1990s, no one could take themes like militarism seriously because hey, it's the 90s and that kind of thing is on it's way out, isn't it? It's the same reason why almost every superhero movie from the 90s is absurd ala Batman and Robin, nobody could take heroism seriously either.
> 
> I liked the scene where everyone was naked though.



Honestly, I do think the Starship Troopers movie from the 90's was a satire not just because of the typical Gen X pseudo-intellectual cynicism that eventually metastasized and dominates our current cultural hellscape, but also because of the time it came out in.

The Cold War was over and ended peaceably, the last major war up to that point was the Gulf War, which was a curb-stomp victory for the USA that pretty much ended within a week and aside from the clusterfuck in Somalia, the only other wars the USA was involved in were small skirmishes and airstrikes in the Balkans.

The militarism of WWII and the Cold War that informed the novel all seemed silly and antiquated at the time to the average American in the 90's.



Spoiler: Semi-Related Side Sperging



The late 90's was when the West truly believed in Fukuyama's "End of History" theory that neoliberal corporate democracy was the way of the future and had "won" the game of history. While the wealthy elite still kind of believe it (or at least pay lip service to it), in the late 90's, most middle-class and even working-class Americans thought it was at least somewhat credible.

The economy was booming between 1995 and 2001, the Cold War ended peaceably in 1991 and while Russia and Eastern Europe were a total clusterfuck, everyone just assumed they'd eventually work themselves out and stuff like Chechnya or the Yugoslav Wars were just severe growing pains. 

Hell, part of the reason why Clinton and both Bushes were so gung-ho about outsourcing industrial jobs to China and boosting their economy was out of this misguided sense that Western luxuries combined with Deng Xiaoping's reforms would eventually end the CCP regime peaceably, just like what happened to the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact.

It wasn't until 9/11 followed by the clusterfuck that was the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in the early 2000's did the public really start to question things and the bigwigs in the West shifted from "The End of History" to "managed decline"


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## Dom Cruise (Mar 16, 2021)

knobslobbin said:


> The right will withdraw from troon society and attempt to nullify federal laws at first, and when that fails try and secede. It will be the left that attacks first. I hope the good guys win.
> 
> But in the meantime why the FUCK is it so hard to buy a goddamn wankstation 5? Someone whip those goddamn lazy chinks into producing playstations faster!   (I'm just assuming that even Japanese hardware is made in China now)


It's crazy how scalpers are bleeding the entire hobby of video games dry, nobody can get their hands on a new console or graphics card anymore without paying out the ass.

Maybe it's because of corona that it's gotten this bad but it also doesn't seem like people are simply going to stop scalping like this even without corona unless someway is figured out to force them to stop.




Syaoran Li said:


> Honestly, I do think the Starship Troopers movie from the 90's was a satire not just because of the typical Gen X pseudo-intellectual cynicism that eventually metastasized and dominates our current cultural hellscape, but also because of the time it came out in.
> 
> The Cold War was over and ended peaceably, the last major war up to that point was the Gulf War, which was a curb-stomp victory for the USA that pretty much ended within a week and aside from the clusterfuck in Somalia, the only other wars the USA was involved in were small skirmishes and airstrikes in the Balkans.
> 
> ...


"The End of History" is exactly the mentality of what I was talking about, I do remember the vibe among some was that the Gulf War was the last major war the US would ever fight and any future conflicts would be over and done with quicker if they even happened at all.

Remember that Michael Moore movie Canadian Bacon was about this, how war had so dried up that the US government would purposely start wars on false pretenses just as an excuse to keep making money with the military industrial complex which what's funny is that anticipated the actual conspiracy theories about 9/11 and the post 9/11 era.

The movie Wag The Dog was about similar themes, it's just crazy that people really did seem to think American wars would be a thing of the past in the 1990s, I wish I could see the look on someone's face if you went back in time and told them that in reality America would still be fighting a war after 20 years. 

The 1990s was an incredibly naive time, for another example of that you saw it with the Richard Jewell controversy where people, even the fucking FBI itself, thought it was more likely that someone would do a terrorist attack just to get the fame of "stopping" it even though this was after the 1993 WTC bombing and only 1 year after the OKC bombing, but somehow people were still insanely naive about terrorism.

That "ignorance is bliss" mentality was fun while it lasted but good grief was it proven wrong and do you just kind of cringe when you really think about it today.


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## The best and greatest (Mar 16, 2021)

I want a civil war just so all the people pining after a civil war can  go off and die and leave the earth to me and mine.


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