# Is Suicide selfish?



## Burgers in the ass (Sep 21, 2017)

One of the more interesting debates on suicide is the issue of whether suicide is a Self-fish act or not.
So, Kiwis, Is it Selfish or no? 
I'd say some methods of suicide are pretty selfish, like suicide by cop or getting hit by a train.


----------



## Sergeant Politeness (Sep 21, 2017)

Yeah, it is. With the exception of people with terminal illnesses, your problems are not so bad that suicide is anything but fucking ridiculous. Losing someone fucking sucks, and if you're willing to let the people around you go through that just because you think you have it like shit, you're selfish.

I remember around 2011 or so, when the wave of gay teens killing themselves started with that one fruitcake who unknowingly got filmed having gay sex and people were calling it a "brave" act. It's not brave, it's fucking cowardly. It's admitting defeat and putting everyone around you through a big pit of bullshit because people were making fun of you on the internet.


----------



## DumbDosh (Sep 21, 2017)

It's selfish, but what's more selfish are the attention whores that come out in response to suicides and try to make it about them.


----------



## m0rnutz (Sep 21, 2017)

It depends. I'd elaborate on this point, but it would clock my powerlevel at above 8000.

It comes down to why you do it, who it will affect, what your motives are, and what influencing factors have lead you to this course of action. 

If you kill yourself because the stock market crashes, you're a fucking retard. If you do it because you have cancer and the pain of going through chemo isn't worth suffering the five months the doctors have estimated you will live, that's a totally different scenario, and anyone could relate to not wanting to suffer in a masochistic manner.

Scout Schultz for example is a selfish suicide. That one was an attempt to make himself a martyr for the LGBT community, which his parents also assisted in doing for anti-cop rhetoric. Hitler is another selfish suicide, because he was a pussy and afraid of the Russians buttfucking him up the ass with their rifles.

Basically any time you kill yourself because life isn't going your way, it's selfish nature. There are very rare cases where suicide is humble, and those are few and far in between. Not even depressed people have a reason to kill themselves, if all they have is that they are sad with life.


----------



## Star Wormwood (Sep 21, 2017)

m0rnutz said:


> If you do it because you have cancer and the pain of going through chemo isn't worth suffering the five months the doctors have estimated you will live, that's a totally different scenario, and anyone could relate to not wanting to suffer in a masochistic manner.


It's still selfish in that scenario, you're still taking the easy way out because you're trying to avoid suffering. It's more understandable from a logical sense (hell I can't say I wouldn't do it), but I find it hard to believe that offing yourself before your time would make things any easier for the people around you, emotionally or otherwise. I find it hard to imagine anytime where suicide is selfless outside of some crazy fringe cases, since the very thought of suicide usually comes about from a desire to run away from your problems. I'm not counting the Japanese idea of sudoku here, that shit's retarded.

The only time I can think of where suicide wasn't selfless was when that Vietnamese monk set himself on fire to protest the war. It was both an effective form of protest and a sick ass RAtM album cover.

tl;dr: Dont kill yourself kids it's a dick move, unless it'll make a rad album cover then I guess I'm fine with it.


----------



## BlueSpark (Sep 21, 2017)

I think it depends on the circumstances,


----------



## From The Uncanny Valley (Sep 21, 2017)

Guilt-tripping suicidially depressed people is fucking obnoxious, though.


----------



## Y2K Baby (Sep 21, 2017)

Not really, and even if it was, that's a completely autistic thing to say and an entirely worthless sentiment to have. It's the most virtue-signaling platitude of all time.


----------



## Morose_Obesity (Sep 21, 2017)

If you throw your ass in front of the train at rush hour and make everybody late for work, yeah, it is


----------



## Terror Rism (Sep 21, 2017)

if even 1 sane person truly cares about you and values your place in their life more than *at all*, it's incredibly selfish in any situation that isn't the aforementioned terminal illnesses. you're putting the "sad feelings that hurt so bad " over someone having to live decades with the knowledge that they lost someone close to them and couldn't do anything about it
it doesn't even help anyone understand you, or make anyone feel bad for hurting you
people that didn't give a shit before will continue to not give a shit, and people that care will be irrevocably devastated
for the half-mentally ill, suicide is a tool they try to use to feel power over others, for fully mentally ill people, they don't even understand that they're hurting other people that care (usually a nonzero number)

the only time suicide is unselfish is when you truly, logically have no one existing that would care if you live

i mean except if you're autistic then lol who cares


----------



## Cthulu (Sep 21, 2017)

Not if they fucking deserve it


----------



## m0rnutz (Sep 21, 2017)

Star Wormwood said:


> I'm not counting the Japanese idea of sudoku here, that shit's exceptional.


Seppeku you mean?


----------



## Burgers in the ass (Sep 21, 2017)

m0rnutz said:


> Seppeku you mean?


No, sudoku, as in that brain teaser with all the number, the Japanese sometimes use these brain teasers to frustrate themselves to death.


Y2K Baby said:


> Flew over your head, dumbdumb. Eat my butt.


Youre a poopoo head


----------



## Burgers in the ass (Sep 21, 2017)

Y2K Baby said:


>


Don't be selfish


----------



## Sperglord Dante (Sep 21, 2017)

What's more selfish, ending your own life without caring that your beloved ones will suffer afterwards...or making your beloved ones live miserable existences just so you don't have to deal with the suffering of their deaths?


----------



## AnOminous (Sep 21, 2017)

Sergeant Politeness said:


> So if someone kills themselves and leaves their family and close friends to deal with the pain, that's not selfish? How do you figure?



Suppose you have Alzheimer's.  If you're "lucky" enough to live a few years, your family gets to see you degenerate into a gibbering vegetable that is nothing like the person they knew.  Plus any money you've saved up to be able to leave your kids an inheritance?  That all gets sucked out of you by the medical establishment, all so you can live a miserable, pathetic existence without even your mind.

How is a nice clean bullet not better than that?


----------



## Sergeant Politeness (Sep 21, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Suppose you have Alzheimer's.  If you're "lucky" enough to live a few years, your family gets to see you degenerate into a gibbering vegetable that is nothing like the person they knew.  Plus any money you've saved up to be able to leave your kids an inheritance?  That all gets sucked out of you by the medical establishment, all so you can live a miserable, pathetic existence without even your mind.
> 
> How is a nice clean bullet not better than that?


I said this in my original post.



Sergeant Politeness said:


> With the exception of people with terminal illnesses



Alzheimer's fucking scares me, and I don't blame someone for not wanting to put themselves or their loved ones through that. I mean absolute faggots who whine about their life sucking for any actually fixable reason--that's selfish.


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 21, 2017)

Sergeant Politeness said:


> Yeah, it is. With the exception of people with terminal illnesses, your problems are not so bad that suicide is anything but fucking ridiculous. Losing someone fucking sucks, and if you're willing to let the people around you go through that just because you think you have it like shit, you're selfish.



Everyone dies. It's the most natural thing in the world, and we all have to learn to deal with our loved ones dying. It's sad, and then you get over it, because that's what people do. If honestly you think people should feel obligated to suffer through a miserable life they don't want to live just so you don't have to deal with being sad for a few weeks, you're the selfish one.


----------



## Sergeant Politeness (Sep 21, 2017)

Dynastia said:


> Everyone dies. It's the most natural thing in the world, and we all have to learn to deal with our loved ones dying. It's sad, and then you get over it, because that's what people do. If honestly you think people should feel obligated to suffer through a miserable life they don't want to live just so you don't have to deal with being sad for a few weeks, you're the selfish one.


Okay, even disregarding the "few weeks" bit (people can take a lot longer to process grief, but I'll concede it), what's a good reason to kill yourself? I can't think of one. To what degree should your life suck before it becomes reasonable? Poverty? The loss of friends or loved ones? Feeling lonely or isolated? Never amounting to anything?

Yeah, death isn't the end of things. You can move on, but so can the people killing themselves. Most of the reasons people kill themselves are trivial, not permanent, or fixable. I'm not even saying easily fixable, but fixable. If there's a way out that doesn't involve doing a flip, why not do that instead? Isn't that infinitely less selfish?


----------



## KickyerArsene (Sep 21, 2017)

It's your own life. You're free to do with it as you want, is my stance.


----------



## ToroidalBoat (Sep 21, 2017)

Depends on the situation and the intent. I don't think it's _always_ selfish. There's also a big difference between taking away someone else's only shot at life, and taking one's own.

It's interesting how suicide is still such a stigma in the West, even though the influence of traditional Christianity is fading.


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 21, 2017)

Sergeant Politeness said:


> what's a good reason to kill yourself?



Not wanting to live. That's good enough.

You really are a disgustingly selfish person, you know? I'm not even saying this to try and insult you or shame, I just think you have no idea how incredibly morally bankrupt you are because you're blinded by your own selfishness. You are quite literally saying that if a person is in such crippling overwhelming misery that they're ready to take their own life, they shouldn't do it because _you_ will feel kinda sad about it, maybe even for a longish time, and they should consider your feelings first.

That's appalling. You are appalling. You are an appalling, disgusting human being. Just look at what you're saying. You're telling people with a case of the sads _so extreme that they are literally ready to die to escape it_ that they should stay alive being that miserable, indefinitely, because if they die you'll have a much smaller and manageable case of the sads. You are looking at massive, unthinkable cases of the sads and saying "No, that's not as important as whether or not I feel a little bit sad and they should accept that." This is like telling a starving man he should give you his sandwich because you're slightly hungry. Your sense of entitlement is incredible, and your myopic blindness to it utterly disgusting. You might consider yourself a good person, you might do good things, make the world around you a little better, but I want you to know that no matter what you tell yourself, you are such a fundamentally selfish person that you assume starving men should give you their sandwiches. 

You need to reevaluate your moral compass, because assuming your feelings should be the center of it makes you an appalling piece of shit, dude. Appalling.


----------



## Sergeant Politeness (Sep 21, 2017)

Dynastia said:


> You're telling people with a case of the sads _so extreme that they are literally ready to die to escape it_ that they should stay alive being that miserable, indefinitely, because if they die you'll have a much smaller and manageable case of the sads.


So what about suicidal people who regret it right before they go through with it? The kind who suddenly go "oh shit I don't actually want to die"? They do exist; that bitch who convinced a dude to choke himself out in his car, he regretted it halfway through. She told him to go through with it anyway, and he did. People who survive it usually end up regretting it.



> Second, many suicidal crises are self-limiting. Such crises are often caused by an immediate stressor, such as the breakup of a romantic relationship, the loss of a job, or a run-in with police. As the acute phase of the crisis passes, so does the urge to attempt suicide. The temporary nature and fleeting sway of many suicidal crises is evident in the fact that more than 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt, including attempts that were expected to be lethal (such as shooting oneself in the head or jumping in front of a train), do not go on to die by suicide. Indeed, recognizing the self-limiting nature of suicidal crises, penal and psychiatric institutions restrict access to lethal means for persons identified as potentially suicidal.



What about suicidal people who do it (or threaten it) for attention, as a cry for help? They also exist. They can't figure out how to get help, so they try to elicit attention instead. You can't group all suicidal people into the same category. They all have different motives. You wouldn't want people to get help instead of ending what is in all likelihood temporary pain?

I'm just saying, death is kinda permanent. There's better solutions. If you really feel like you can't handle it, fine, do it. I'll deal. Don't pretend like it's some big moral issue that I'm minimizing the pain of the mentally ill when you're minimizing the pain of the people around them. It's not like the death of someone close to you is something you shrug off, that's bullshit. Emotions are erratic, sporadic, and lie to you. I've felt that, friends of mine have felt that. Shit has looked bleak many times and we've carried on and had brighter days. Your feels are a fucking stupid reason to kill yourself. If I'm bankrupt for that, cool.

Also, are you telling me you wouldn't make fun of this person?


----------



## Sure Thing Idiot (Sep 22, 2017)

Selfish is an abstract word when it comes to suicide. People say it is(or often cowardly), but if the question is worth discussing at all then so is the idea of what selfish even really means, say, socially and ethically. When you say someone is selfish it usually means someone is imposing or an opportunist to gain the benefit in their situation. Like if that guy over there took all the free samples, or Kelly took all the hours at work, that's selfish. If you exclude people who talk about killing themselves for attention to look at the situation instead, on a case by case basis, I don't know if it's point-blank selfish, because people do it for different reasons. Sure, there are selfish ways like suicide by cop, because you're forcing someone else to be involved. Threatening suicide because your boyfriend or girlfriend dumped you, that's selfish, again, because it's forcing someone else into your shit.

 If someone is a million dollars in debt and they're about to have everything repossessed and they lose their job, don't tell anyone, but go and kill themselves, I don't know, that's just dark because obviously that person felt there was no hope left to live any longer. Some little girl somewhere gets repeatedly raped by a family member or gets sold off to marry a man she never met five times her age, kills herself, is that selfish? Some people are just completely mentally unhinged, while others may have chronic depression they try to powerhouse through every day. Some people are suicidal but never talk about it and then snap. Some people genuinely don't want to be alive. As a blanket statement, no, I don't think it's selfish because I can't possibly put myself in the mind of a girl who had acid thrown in her face and was then ostrasized by her community, nor can I imagine being never happy at all.

The question itself also begs the question entirely. If someone has a terminal disease(or depression, extreme trauma (or whatever) wants to die, is it not also selfish to expect them to stick around simply because it would hurt you? 


Selfish is the wrong word, I think. Maybe I'm wrong. It seems like such an abstract word when you use it for suicide because suicides aren't just suicide, they're each unique and done for different reasons. Can a suicide be selfish? Yes, absolutely. Is suicide itself selfish? I don't know.


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 22, 2017)

Sergeant Politeness said:


> So what about suicidal people who regret it right before they go through with it? The kind who suddenly go "oh shit I don't actually want to die"? They do exist; that bitch who convinced a dude to choke himself out in his car, he regretted it halfway through. She told him to go through with it anyway, and he did. People who survive it usually end up regretting it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So now you're basically saying the starving man should give you his sandwich because if he works really hard he could have a roast dinner instead.

Morally bankrupt, dude.


----------



## Matthew Moulton (Sep 22, 2017)

If you want to see how "fun" this line of thinking can be, find yourself a suicide support group with at least one parent who has lost a kid to suicide... and then incessantly preach to the depressed participants about how people who commit suicide are selfish, weak, stupid, etc.  "Hilarity" will then ensue...


----------



## Kiwi Jeff (Sep 22, 2017)

What about the people who kill themselves because they're bored?


----------



## Ted_Breakfast (Sep 22, 2017)

:powerlevel:

Yes.

If you are in constant physical pain, then it's at least understandable, and I sincerely hope that no one on the boards ever finds themselves in such a position. There is a point where physical pain drives you to a point of madness, and you honestly aren't capable of caring about the feelings of others. But even in that case, it causes pain to those that care about you. A better question, I think, is, 'Is selfishness always wrong?' Sometimes, it can't be helped.

If you kill yourself because you're depressed and can't find a girl/boyfriend that understands you or can't maintain your current standard of living after a shakeup at work, then fuck you hard. Everyone that cares about you is going to fall asleep a couple of times a week trying to push your death out of their minds, wondering what they could've done differently. It's going to last the rest of their lives and it'll probably cause them to fail in the exact same way you did, you loathsome piece of shit. Hopefully they'll be stronger than you, but probably not.

:islamic::powerlevel::islamic:


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 22, 2017)

Ted_Breakfast said:


> Everyone that cares about you is going to fall asleep a couple of times a week trying to push your death out of their minds, wondering what they could've done differently. It's going to last the rest of their lives and it'll probably cause them to fail in the exact same way you did, you loathsome piece of shit.



lol no it's not, holy shit. What kind of weak shit is this? People die. Most of the people you love are likely to die before you. You get over it. It's not life-shattering, it's not unsurmountable, it's _normal_. That's what literally everyone who has ever lived does, and has been doing since people have been around. If you're so weak that you can't even cope with the basic fundamental reality of life and death that all of us are expected to live our lives around, then you should just kill yourself. Nobody would blame you (except entitled little pissbabies like you, I guess)


----------



## sbm1990 (Sep 22, 2017)

It really depends on if people give a fuck about you or not. If nobody gives a fuck about you, then I wouldn't really consider it selfish, tbh.


----------



## Ted_Breakfast (Sep 22, 2017)

Dynastia said:


> lol no it's not, holy shit. What kind of weak shit is this? People die. Most of the people you love are likely to die before you. You get over it. It's not life-shattering, it's not unsurmountable, it's _normal_. That's what literally everyone who has ever lived does, and has been doing since people have been around. If you're so weak that you can't even cope with the basic fundamental reality of life and death that all of us are expected to live our lives around, then you should just kill yourself. Nobody would blame you (except entitled little pissbabies like you, I guess)



lol That's sociopathic. 

Yeah, death happens. If you choose to inflict the grim realties of death on someone, you are either insane or a piece of shit lol.

I feel sorry for your loved ones, and hope you never put your sociopathy into practice lol.


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 22, 2017)

Ted_Breakfast said:


> lol That's sociopathic.
> 
> Yeah, death happens. If you choose to inflict the grim realties of death on someone, you are either insane or a piece of shit lol.
> 
> I feel sorry for your loved ones, and hope you never put your sociopathy into practice lol.



So you think people should suffer through long miserable lives they don't want to live just so other people don't get bummed out for a while that they're no longer around being miserable? That's sociopathic.


----------



## cuddle striker (Sep 22, 2017)

if you're fucked up or in pain that can't get fixed it's selfish for people to want you to stay alive and suffer just to spare their feelings.

if you're after attention and wanna hurt people it's selfish to kill yourself for that. just key their fucking cars or something.

oh and for fuck sake, please, don't leave a goddamn mess. leave a clear note for the first responders. use pills/gas in a bag/something contained. be in the bathtub, in a tarp. none of this melodramatic messy shit that I'll have to scrub up. don't leave it unclear. "I was in intractable pain and wanted to escape it so I took (whatever pills)." that's all your note needs to say. don't waste money and time to make other people investigate and clean up your shit. 

in other words if you gotta you gotta, but you don't have to be a dick about it.


----------



## Mysterious Capitalist (Sep 22, 2017)

The cases where suicide is objectively justified are very rare, I believe, but everyone is free to do whatever they want with their lives, even throw them away. To say that they shouldn't do it for the sake of those around them is like saying that the mother should not abort for the sake of the life in her womb or for the sake of the father that really wanted the child: "her body, her choice", remember?

If you want to kill yourself, seek help. You're probably just throwing a massive tantrum that's easily solvable with medicine because your brain refuse to produce (or produces too much) of some stupid chemical. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, I personally believe that, outside from the cited rare instances of objectively justified suicide (like the chemo example someone made in the thread), you are weak and retroactively deserved to die anyway. Life is for the living, for those that are willing and able to take it and ride it to the bitter end. Everyone else is just a waste of resources.

But at the end of the day: is it selfish? It is as selfish as wanting to have control of your body regardless of what other people think, I believe. So I'll vote no.


----------



## Ted_Breakfast (Sep 22, 2017)

Dynastia said:


> So you think people should suffer through long miserable lives they don't want to live just so other people don't get bummed out for a while that they're no longer around being miserable? That's sociopathic.



Yes. Life is miserable for most humans. Life sucks and it doesn't stop sucking until you die, but that doesn't give anyone the moral right to make it worse for others. Does suicide make sense sometimes?* It totally does*. I could (and probably will) wind up consumed by bone cancer, and beg for death. But to suggest such a request won't have long-lasting, detrimental effects on people I care about more than myself is either nice or, well, sociopathic. 

I genuinely hope you won't throw in the towel the first time you need a bedpan. Your loved ones (and you) deserve better.


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 22, 2017)

Ted_Breakfast said:


> Life sucks and it doesn't stop sucking until you die, but that doesn't give anyone the moral right to make it worse for others.



Cool so if you're in a shit marriage you should stay in it because your husband will be sad for a while that you divorced him?

It's your life. Nobody elses. Nobody else has the moral authority to tell you it's wrong to opt out.


----------



## trueandhonestfan (Sep 22, 2017)

No, I don't think it is. Killing yourself for a stupid reason like some people on the internet is stupid, but I don't think people who kill themselves because they're actually depressed are being selfish.

I really hate seeing that fucking line about how suicide is just a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Fuck off, you don't know the person's situation so you have no right to criticize them. I imagine these people are the kind of really happy people who think that depression is the same as being sad because you had a fight with your friend. Or they're really immature and live in their own little world where other people's troubles are non-existent because it's unrelated to them.


----------



## Daughter of Cernunnos (Sep 22, 2017)

I don't think it's selfish. It's just mental illness. Not everyone gets the help they need. It's a very sad thing but it doesn't help the survivors of people who died by suicide to call them selfish for what they did.


----------



## hotcheetospuffs (Sep 22, 2017)

just don't leave behind a mess, or make it someone else's problem. 

What's that movie where they have suicide booths? Those would be a good idea...


----------



## RG 448 (Sep 22, 2017)

It's selfish to hold someone's severe mental illness against them because it inconveniences you.


----------



## GS 281 (Sep 22, 2017)

I feel it is responsible for a person who is considering suicide to seek some form of counseling before doing it. Not everyone will benefit from therapy, but therapy has helped many people change their perspective. 

That isn't the question, though. The question is whether the act of suicide is selfish, and I feel to a degree it is, but most things we do are selfish. Most people have at least one person dependent on them in some way or another. We may be an important part of a small business, the mother or father for a young child, etc. and there are people whose lives will be altered if we make the choice to end our lives. 

I feel that the problem with this question is the connotation that selfishness is bad or that it makes someone a bad person to do something that concludes with an outcome that is beneficial to themselves, but not others around them. We cannot expect that people will choose inaction over an action that will end their pain if that action will also cause us pain. It is wrong to expect the altruistic act of someone choosing to live in intense physical or mental pain because if they were to end it we would feel pain. Even if someone is not in pain and they feel no purpose, it would be just as wrong to want them to stay in this life as it would be to want someone to stay in a loveless relationship. Even more so actually.

It would be nice if science developed solutions to everyone's physical and psychological pain, but we aren't there yet and if we do get there it won't be in our lifetimes. But yes, suicide is, to some degree selfish, but at the same time, if a person does commit the act, they are not bad or necessarily wrong. It is their life and they should feel free to do what they want with it.


----------



## Matthew Moulton (Sep 22, 2017)

There are a number of major driving factors behind suicide, including various forms of brain damage, psychosis, stress, depression, frustration, pain, fear, feeling a lack of control, infuriation, confusion, myopic mental processes (unable to see beyond the "here and now", common in kids/teens) and of course psychosocial factors.

Those last ones being the real nasty bitch of it all.  Our society has reached a point of effectively glamorizing suicide as a convenient means of "getting back" at people you don't like, or people you feel have slighted you.  This is especially prevalent in trannies and teen suicides, where everyone and everything is always pitted with blame and ridden with guilt.  People learn, on a social level, that killing yourself becomes a viable weapon for cowards to eternally lash out at those around them.

In my opinion, those who kill themselves in such a fashion are the effective equivalent of emotional suicide bombers or emotional terrorists.

Now while it is true that bullying has the POTENTIAL to inflict stress and depression that driving force is fueled entirely by personal perceptions. Whether YOU CHOOSE to be a "victim". There's a saying... "the only one who can hurt you with words, is you". That is to say, you are always in direct control of your emotional state. You can CHOOSE to NOT be a "victim", you can CHOOSE to ignore and disregard negative opinions of others.

You have that choice... every person does. And, yes, at the present point in time, in many 1st world nations like the US, it is certainly POPULAR to play the role of "victim", however that is entirely a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.

But, keep in mind, it's not one that can be easily dismantled.  I know, I tried, hence that fun image I posted earlier.  Best of intentions... did not go over well.  Wound up turning a parent who lost a kid to suicide into becoming PRO-suicide and then she went around desperately trying to convince depressed people to kill themselves... it was really bad!

There is also some measure of possibility that some suicides are a result of a kind of genetic fail safe... basically it might be possible that, on a genetic level, your body inherently realizes its an evolutionary dead end and, as such, may trigger massive depression and suicidal states, especially in adolescence, in an effort to prevent you from breeding and passing on inferior traits.

Pain is probably the worst thing, especially right now because they've started a witch hunt against pain meds as a means of trying to keep their over the counter non-prescription sleep aids from being exposed.  Upwards of SIXTY PERCENT of all inadvertent opiate analgesic overdose deaths are a result of CROSS COMBINATIONS of drugs... the most prolific being those stupid ass over the counter non-prescription sleep aids... but those drugs are a multi-BILLION dollar a year powerhouse industry for Failing Pharma, so they've chosen to fuck over a significant chunk of the population to keep their profits up.

Most pain charts only go up to 10 (the point at which your tear ducts start reacting autonomically), but I have my own pain chart that goes up to 15...

11 - Paralyzing Pain - Pain so bad that it prevents you from even moving.

12 - Suicidal Ideations - Endless, unending pain so bad suicide starts looking like a viable option.

13 - Rampage - Endless pain so bad that you lose your sense of self and become insane/deranged as a result... potentially temporary. This often manifests in the form of causing physical injury to yourself to try and stop the pain, whether stabbing yourself with a knife, smashing your head into a wall, inadvertantly overdosing on Tylenol, etc.

14 - Blacking Out - Intense/sudden pain so bad you lose consciousness. I've only had this happen once with pain, although I've had it happen a couple times with panic attacks.

15 - Torture. Using chemical agents like Modafinil to keep the person from blacking out.

On the torture side you can also use drugs like Bradykinin to over-stimulate the nervous system to enhance pain to its fullest extent.

...although I don't recommend trying that.  You'd have to inject the Bradykinin directly into the brain and/or nervous system to achieve maximum results.  Insanely enough, they've actually done some limited testing on this (although they gave them morphine afterwards)...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC223509/

If you do want to kill yourself though, I recommend HELIUM.  It's the most painless and arguably the cheapest way to die at this point.  Basically it's suffocation without actually feeling like you're suffocating.  You just get giggly and light headed and then peacefully pass out and die.  I honestly don't understand why they don't use it for the death penalty, especially amidst all the current chemical controversy/cost and shit... although I guess they don't want death row inmates to die in the most peaceful way possible.


----------



## CatParty (Sep 22, 2017)

Matthew Moulton said:


> There are a number of major driving factors behind suicide, including various forms of brain damage, psychosis, stress, depression, frustration, pain, fear, feeling a lack of control, infuriation, confusion, myopic mental processes (unable to see beyond the "here and now", common in kids/teens) and of course psychosocial factors.
> 
> Those last ones being the real nasty bitch of it all.  Our society has reached a point of effectively glamorizing suicide as a convenient means of "getting back" at people you don't like, or people you feel have slighted you.  This is especially prevalent in trannies and teen suicides, where everyone and everything is always pitted with blame and ridden with guilt.  People learn, on a social level, that killing yourself becomes a viable weapon for cowards to eternally lash out at those around them.
> 
> ...




you should suicide


----------



## Syaoran Li (Sep 22, 2017)

Without power-leveling too much, I have lost loved ones to suicide and it does hurt deeply. In fact, it's sort of a recurring trend in my family history, but as to the question of whether or not suicide is selfish, in all honesty, it depends on the context.

In most cases, I would say yes. But there are certain exceptions, most notably terminal illnesses. So, I honestly do not know what to say on this beyond that.


----------



## Hui (Sep 22, 2017)

Do it.


----------



## AnOminous (Sep 22, 2017)

Mysterious Capitalist said:


> If you want to kill yourself, seek help. You're probably just throwing a massive tantrum that's easily solvable with medicine because your brain refuse to produce (or produces too much) of some stupid chemical. Nothing more, nothing less.



It's kind of beside the point to describe most people who kill themselves in that situation, because of untreated mental illness, as "selfish," because their suicidal ideation is actually part of the illness, and the refusal or discontinuation of treatment is itself also part of the illness.  Severe depression isn't just a mood disorder.  It often hits cognitive abilities as well, so people who commit suicide in that state just aren't thinking straight, making good decisions, or even having a full grasp on what's even going on.


----------



## sbm1990 (Sep 22, 2017)

Matthew Moulton said:


> If you do want to kill yourself though, I recommend HELIUM. It's the most painless and arguably the cheapest way to die at this point. Basically it's suffocation without actually feeling like you're suffocating. You just get giggly and light headed and then peacefully pass out and die. I honestly don't understand why they don't use it for the death penalty, especially amidst all the current chemical controversy/cost and shit... although I guess they don't want death row inmates to die in the most peaceful way possible.



I agree it is, the only problem though is that alot of helium providers don't fill their tanks with pure helium, as most of them are filled with a mix of both helium and oxygen. I suppose alot of these helium companies have caught on to the fact that some people will deliberately use helium to commit suicide, and thus started watering their tanks down, so to speak, in an effort to prevent people from using their tanks to off themselves. I suppose if one wants to use a helium tank/exit bag, they should inquire and confirm that the tank they plan on purchasing is infact pure helium.


----------



## AnOminous (Sep 22, 2017)

CanofSoda said:


> I agree it is, the only problem though is that alot of helium providers don't fill their tanks with pure helium, as most of them are filled with a mix of both helium and oxygen. I suppose alot of these helium companies have caught on to the fact that some people will deliberately use helium to commit suicide, and thus started watering their tanks down, so to speak, in an effort to prevent people from using their tanks to off themselves. I suppose if one wants to use a helium tank/exit bag, they should inquire and confirm that the tank they plan on purchasing is infact pure helium.



I don't think that's a terribly good idea.  It will drive people to use carbon monoxide instead, which unlike helium, presents a significant risk to bystanders/first responders.


----------



## AlephOne2Many (Sep 22, 2017)

Suicide isn't a matter of 'good' or 'bad', putting a moral compass on it just complicates things, like trying to rationalize the criminally insane. Crazy isn't why, crazy just is. Suicide is just another aspect of death we're suffering in an attempt to understand.

If we were to simplify things, suicide would be the humane solution to constant agony, in all forms.

Again, simplifying things.


----------



## LofaSofa (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm surprised such a large majority of people are divided on this. Very good deep thoughts op 10/10 burgers in the ass.


----------



## AnOminous (Sep 22, 2017)

There's been too little shitposting in this thread.


----------



## ForgedBlades (Sep 22, 2017)

Spoiler



Go ahead and slap powerlevel ratings on this shit, I don't care.



My younger brother shot himself dead eight years ago at 18 years old. And a close friend of mine purposely drove himself into a telephone pole when we were sophomores in high school.

I have experience in this field.

I guess the way I cope with it is by telling myself that suicide is not a black and white issue. You can't slap simple labels on it. It's complex, and difficult to wrap your head around.

You can go crazy trying to parse it down into a simple answer. And the survivor's guilt can eat you alive. It did to my mom.

And that's the difference between this and every other form of death. You ask yourself why you didn't stop it. Why the gun wasn't locked up. You play every second preceding the act back, wondering why you didn't notice something was wrong. And it can literally drive you insane. 

The way I look at it, the way that I HAVE to look at it is, he died as a result of an illness. Just like people with cancer sometimes die. He had an illness and it killed him. Period.

He wasn't a coward, he wasn't selfish. People with cancer aren't selfish cowards. He just lost a battle to an illness.


----------



## AnOminous (Sep 22, 2017)

You can trust Carlin to be hilarious about suicide.

If you just have a minute, you can skip to the end for the best suicide note ever.


----------



## HG 400 (Sep 23, 2017)

ForgedBlades said:


> I have experience in this field.



Pretty much everyone has experience in this field. Suicides aren't rare. I would honestly be surprised to meet anybody over the age of 25 or so who has never had a loved one commit suicide.

In the end though, people fall into two camps when dealing with it. Some people are reasonable, compassionate, understanding human beings who accept reality and move on with their lives. And some people are screeching crying selfish babies who want to yell at a corpse for inconveniencing them.


----------



## admiral (Sep 23, 2017)

Making some cop shoot you because you're too much of a pusscake to do it yourself is selfish. If you're going to ake yourself and everyone around you miserable because of your illness, mental or otherwise, I think suicide is the kinder option. When you're depressed/anorexic/brain damaged/whatever, those closest to you are suffering with you.


----------



## Ruminous (Sep 23, 2017)

Burgers in the ass said:


> Is it Selfish or no?



It depends entirely on the circumstances. In most cases where it's driven by depression I would say yes, it is primarily an act of self-fulfillment at the expense of your friends and family. A selfless person would put on a mask and play the part of a happy individual for the sake of others.

Where my parents grew up there was an incredibly high rate of suicide among farmers. The reason was because crops would fail and the head of household would be faced with a choice- let the family farm go under and get repossessed by the bank, or kill themselves, letting their sons inherit the land and collect the life insurance. In these circumstances suicide was not a selfish act.


----------



## Unheard Bird (Sep 23, 2017)

No. Genuine mental illness can cloud rational thought and make people feel as though it's their only option.


----------



## Syaoran Li (Sep 24, 2017)

In all honesty, I believe suicide is not selfish intentionally, as it is often a result of debilitating mental illness such as severe depression. It is only selfish through consequence, with the effect it has on the victim's loved ones. 

So, I don't think suicidal people are deliberately selfish. It's just that their actions have consequences that seem selfish to the survivors. 

And then you've got the terminally ill who are completely blameless for wanting to die on their own terms.


----------



## MG 192 (Sep 24, 2017)

No, at least not inherently.

We should legalize euthanasia or assisted suicide nationwide. Terminally ill patience with an untreatable disease should not be forced to live because "muh morals".

Now most reasons for suicides are selfish, but reasons such as being terminally ill are not and in those cases, justify death if the person is ready to end what will inevitably be a quick death.


----------



## Zarkov (Sep 25, 2017)

No, do it faggot.


----------



## ForumsAreForAutists (Sep 25, 2017)

Yes. But many things people do are selfish acts when you really break it down. Complete selflessness is rare... Living through intense pain just so a few others aren't upset isn't something most people actually in that situation are willing to do.

And what about suicide to escape pain from, say, terminal illness?

There are quite a few people on Earth who would be better off dead.


----------



## Johnny Bravo (Sep 26, 2017)

Depends on your situation.


----------



## Hui (Sep 26, 2017)

Is it not selfish to ask others to live so that you may be happy they are "around"? Your life is yours at the end of the day but at least pay off your funeral first ok. Or cremation.


----------



## Joan Nyan (Sep 28, 2017)

Probably, but once you've done it you're not around to hear people call you selfish, so idk why it should bother you. It's not like you'll have to live with the shame or regret of having killed yourself. Just do it faggot.


----------



## AnOminous (Sep 28, 2017)

ForumsAreForAutists said:


> There are quite a few people on Earth who would be better off dead.



There are way more people the world would be better without.  Unfortunately, those never do it.


----------



## bbpoison (Oct 1, 2017)

I don't even understand what the question means anymore.


----------



## Bassomatic (Oct 1, 2017)

Depends on a lot of factors. I don't like questions like this as it broad strokes a case by case. There are families who'd drop a person for a nickel and others who'd sell the shirt off back for another hour of someone even if doped up and comatose.

I think the end of life needs to be talked about to those you love and everyone should have right to end it regardless who and how people feel, because it's your life end of the day. But selfish, I don't think can ever put a line to where it is selfish or not. Case by case only, so something we can't regulate,  so by default not


----------



## Thiletonomics (Oct 1, 2017)

For me, in addition to people committing suicide to get away from their commitments, i.e. to a family or job, the most selfish form of suicide is when that person's suicide act actually affects other people, the most extreme example being "suicide by pilot" incidents, where a pilot decides to off him or herself by crashing a plane on purpose, killing all or most of the passengers as well, as well as killing people not in the aircraft in the crash.

I also find it selfish when someone makes a big deal that they're going to kill themselves, just for attention seeking, and not in the cases where it's a legitimate cry for help.


----------



## Bassomatic (Oct 1, 2017)

Nothing personal as odd as it sounds KF is a place to  debate like adults. I think a forced or group suicide is wrong like what you mentioned or the "popular" suicide by cop.

If ending your life is your choice, it's  gross to add others in. There's so much debate to it solo let alone putting or hurting others at risk.


----------



## Pikimon (Oct 1, 2017)

If someone useless and dumb commits suicide then I don't see the harm


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 1, 2017)

Pikimon said:


> If someone useless and dumb commits suicide then I don't see the harm



Thing is nobody who really should kill themselves ever does.


----------



## Pikimon (Oct 2, 2017)

AnOminous said:


> Thing is nobody who really should kill themselves ever does.



@Michel


----------



## Hui (Oct 2, 2017)

He can't even use chat with us anymore.  Don't be mean.


----------



## Calamity Jane (Oct 2, 2017)

To me, this can never be as straightforward as a yes or no question. 
Somebody taking their own life is just such a... Complex and tragic occurrence. 

Although I am of the belief that doctor-assisted suicide for the terminally ill and suffering is justifiable under the right circumstances, and that those people just need to be put to rest should they want it; If it's inhumane to let a pet or livestock suffer, how is it morally right to let a terminally ill, dying, and suffering human who _wants to die_ live?  

 I believe that all if not most suicides are preventable.


----------



## bbpoison (Oct 2, 2017)

SomeBODY once told me...it's all suicide.


----------



## Michel (Oct 3, 2017)

Pikimon said:


> @Michel


I didn't kill myself, it was murder.


----------



## OtterParty (Oct 3, 2017)




----------



## Zebedee (Oct 3, 2017)

Sergeant Politeness said:


> Okay, even disregarding the "few weeks" bit (people can take a lot longer to process grief, but I'll concede it), what's a good reason to kill yourself? I can't think of one. To what degree should your life suck before it becomes reasonable? Poverty? The loss of friends or loved ones? Feeling lonely or isolated? Never amounting to anything?
> 
> Yeah, death isn't the end of things. You can move on, but so can the people killing themselves. Most of the reasons people kill themselves are trivial, not permanent, or fixable. I'm not even saying easily fixable, but fixable. If there's a way out that doesn't involve doing a flip, why not do that instead? Isn't that infinitely less selfish?



Nihilists believe everything is pointless, so it wouldn't matter from their point of view. Many nihilists would believe that their deaths would have no impact at all and so in their case why not? You can't fix a viewpoint easily.


----------



## Pikimon (Oct 3, 2017)

Michel said:


> I didn't kill myself, it was murder.



I change my mind I want @Oglooger to kill himself instead


----------



## AnOminous (Oct 3, 2017)

OtterParty said:


>



If that guy killed himself, it would be an act of generosity.


----------



## Audit (Oct 3, 2017)

Short answer: No, a person's life belongs only to themself. It is a bit perverse to assume that a person should exist merely as a convenience for others.

Long answer: Suicide and its ideations are a difficult to approach topic. A suicidal person is almost never of a sound mind and thus should never be presumed to have the intellectual capability to decide if they wish to end their life. Instead of asking if suicide is "selfish", as if wanting to end an existence of endless suffering was a bad thing, it would be wiser to ask if a person should given medical help against their will. The underlying problem with declaring suicide as a selfish act is that it creates a social stigma without offering a solution, and creates a debate around whether or not it is ever socially acceptable to kill oneself, instead of, as I would prefer, a debate around how best to prevent suicide.


----------



## Tennis Monkey (Oct 3, 2017)

I'm in the "Yes, but so are most things you do in your life" camp. Humans tend to be self-centred by nature, so if you're looking for reasons to morally condemn something, "it's selfish" isn't a great one. Even most altruistic actions confer some kind of benefit for the person carrying it out, even if it's indirect like "This will make society a better place to live in."


----------

