# Christanity



## bearycool (Apr 8, 2017)

*tips fedora*

I'm not going to say much besides: "lol, good luck not fucking this conversation up".

You can generalize to other religions if you want, but since this site keeps talking about the Islams (trademarked), it would be prefer to keep to the topic of Christianity. 

But here's my two cents: Islam is a lot more overt with its evil, and Christianity is a lot more insidious with its evil and hides it a lot more easily.

Tbh, it's better to convert to Kiwism in my opinion.


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## Lurkman (Apr 8, 2017)

Christianity.

God.

Jesus.

*The Saviour* - _many_

*God And Jesus Will Save You From A Life Of Pain*

_*Joi*_n us today to see who GOD is.

(sorry for broken formatting at the end had to turn off some stuff)


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## bearycool (Apr 8, 2017)

Lurkman said:


> Christianity.
> 
> God.
> 
> ...









lol fake five dollar bill tips.


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## Lorento (Apr 8, 2017)

I would praise the Catholic Church, if my mouth hadn't been utterly destroyed by Father O'Connors back in the day.


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## Elwood P. Dowd (Apr 8, 2017)

One of my favorite minor cows of all time seems to have disappeared from YouTube. Half of her videos were all about throwback pre-Vatican II Catholicism and the other half were about weird shit like making money off of commodity futures. So wanted to post some of her stuff here. This thread is clearly a sign from above that you filthy heathens need her enlightenment. But alas, while  the Lord gave her to us, YouTube seems to have taken her away. Now you're all just going to have to burn in Hell, sorry. 

For the life of me I cannot remember her name. I mentally pigeon-holed her as "Crazy Catholic Mullet Commodities Trading Lady" (she also rocked one of the most amazing she-mullets I think I've ever seen in most of her videos) and that blotted out any and all other references I had in my clearly befuddled mind.

I think in her most watched video she either set a Qu'ran on fire or drowned it. Lines like "See, this is an OFFICIAL Qu'ran, it has English on one page and Arabic on the other, and I'm gonna destroy it before this video ends, but first twenty minutes of sperging about the Council of Trent and other stuff only twelve people on the planet care about," etc. All gone now.


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## DatBepisTho (Apr 8, 2017)

That fake tip tract almost triggered me, fam.


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## bearycool (Apr 18, 2017)

DatBepisTho said:


> That fake tip tract almost triggered me, fam.



feels


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## RG 448 (Apr 18, 2017)

This is a Christian site


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## bearycool (Apr 18, 2017)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> This is a Christian site



And Null is our Lord and Savior


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## millais (Apr 18, 2017)

Testaclese Maximus said:


> This is a Christian site


papists get out

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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## Picklepower (Apr 22, 2017)

I think Westboro is my fav because they hate everyone equally, even other fundies. And they are too silly to really be offensive.


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## Ntwadumela (May 21, 2017)

Here's my two cents.

I'm 100% fine with Christians even if we Muslims disagree that Jesus was the son of God (or even God in some cases). However this applies to my opinions regarding other religious beliefs as well, as long as you aren't harming others.

I actually went to the Vatican last year during our countrywide trip in Italy and it was one of the most serene and beautiful religious centers I've been to that didn't belong to my religion. I admired the unity of the people involved and the famous examples of Renaissance paintings and old statues that were in the Sistine Chapel and St Peter's Basilica respectively. Even as a devout Muslim I was moved.

Now there are horrible people that happen to be Christians but that's a given with any religious belief.
You'll always find extremists polluting the waters for everyone involved.


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## UptownRuckus (May 22, 2017)

bearycool said:


> lol fake five dollar bill tips.



I am Christian and if I got this I would be so pissed off. Hate it when people try to preach like this


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## ExtremeZapper (May 22, 2017)

I grew up in a Christian home and went to private Christian schools all my life through Highschool. Over time I kind of slid away from it though...

It boiled down to the fact that it felt like literally _everything_ you do is wrong. Even _thinking _about doing something wrong is a sin, and _fantasizing_ about someone you like is committing lust in your heart... I began to wonder how much of this is actually true to the word, and how much of it was due to the biblical text being translated and misconstrued over and over.

Personally I came to this conclusion: Religion is an inherently personal and beautiful thing; it gives people solace and comfort, and the strength to carry on. Wether you believe it's real or not, if it means something to someone then it's a powerful force

However... People will always twist religion in their favor, or use it as a prop when it's convenient to them, especially those in power or trying to gain power. As a modern organization I feel like Religion is inherently self-serving and it's lost it's meaning.

My advice: Find a belief that's right for you, and do what _you_ feel is right by you, not what a group of people tell you.

Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass, who knows?


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## Johnny Bravo (May 23, 2017)

Christianity comes in a billion different flavors. Some of those flavors are okay.


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## Lokamayadon (May 23, 2017)

IMO Jesus was probably real but obviously he was just a cult leader (not saying he had to have been a bad person, but the whole group following him was indeed a cult by definition), not in contact with a personified creator or him in flesh or anything like that.

I have nothing against religious people even if honestly, without being mean, I don't think there is some personal meaning with believing in something that is just false for me and from my viewpoint, it's a slightly bad thing that so many people believe in something not real.
There is a lot of value about the cultures and philosophies around religions though.

I dunno, I feel like some lowkey perennialism is quite pervading, the idea that all religious paths leads to God and you are a bigot or a fedora atheist if you don't think other religions have inherent meaning or "truthness" or if you think that none have these.


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## Vocaloid Ruby (May 23, 2017)

I'm a Christian who slipped out of faith in my teens. Became a 'euphoric Atheist' for a bit and then slipped back in.  It's easy to say bad things about christians, when you don't attend a church or meet or talk to them about their faith but I learnt that most christians are good people, and mean no harm whatsoever.

People are cowards, and most people who have low self asteems want to be better than something/someone so it's easy to blame it on something that's so comman. Disbelieving in god is okay though, but it was hard for me to believe that christians would like me if I was an atheist or gay or whatever, so I hated them.

Christianity itself isn't what people should hate in my opinion, if you want to hate on it then hate on Organised Christianity (E.g the Catholic Church and Vitican) than christians in general.


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## Morose_Obesity (May 23, 2017)

I kinda believe I might be in purgatory right now.


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## ZeCommissar (May 23, 2017)

I can't take the bible literally, nor can I take people that tell me to take it literally seriously. We live in a modern world and you expect me to believe that a talking snake and some fruit is why we have all these problems today?

But other than that, I understand why people are Christian and religious in general. It gives them comfort when something bad happens and joy when something good happens. As long as a Christian is fine with my lack of belief I am fine with their belief.


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## Picklepower (May 23, 2017)

Alot of people use the authority of religion to score points and metaphorically wack people over the head, yet those same people probably commit sins themselves, and do not live up to what they preach. People argue, and sneer at each other, and when they die their petty bullshit doesn't ultimately mean anything. I dont mean all religious people just the vocal ones I see quite a bit online. Ive seen edgy alt righters on 4chan and twitter claim they follow Christ, and are soooo Holy cuz they have God, yet they say Nigger this and Nigger that, and fap to hentai everyday lol Christianity gets used as a prop, like a costume or something. It is advantageous to just lie and say you believe in god, at least you wont get called a neckbeard.


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## Vocaloid Ruby (May 23, 2017)

1864897514651 said:


> You are not a Christian if you do not believe in Christ's One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church—the Roman Catholic Church. You are a heretic if you despise the Church.
> 
> I encourage you to read the Holy Bible. You need to understand why Saint Peter is the rock upon which Christ built His Church. I prefer the Douay-Rheims translation.



You've read the bible? Good. You must have read that Jesus said "My fathers house has many rooms."


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## ICametoLurk (May 23, 2017)

Why did you sign up on a forum that is dedicated to making autists kill themselves, which is considered a sin in Catholic Theology.


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## Viracocha (May 23, 2017)

cuck philosophy


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## TaterBot (May 23, 2017)

Religion as such is a burden to people imo, with its adherence to rules, regulations, rituals, etc.  "Being religious" can make people behave very ugly toward other people of a different  religion.  Much of what calls itself "Christianity" is just a form of religion.  I am thankfully not a religious person.
I am however a Christian.  I believe in God,  Jesus and the Holy Spirit. 
 I think a person can have a relationship, not a religion.  There's a difference. 
It's not over till it's over.


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## Audit (May 25, 2017)

I'm going to sperg a bit. I think that what most of us would call Christianity is nothing more than a bastardized form of the original religion. I actually really like the morality of the early Christian church, mostly the focus on charity, and wish that today's Christians could drop some of the vestigial formalities picked up in the Middle Ages, such as the over reliance on the clergy to produce an orthodoxy. Most of the Christians I know today are what you would call the Christmas and Easter crowd and don't live up to the self-sacrificial values that the early martyrs of the church espoused. Also, I've never met a pastor who has impressed me whatsoever; the ones I've encountered spend so much time preaching the basics or rambling on about nothing in particular that they don't ever talk about more nuanced issues within the religion. This, in my humble opinion, has led to a religion filled with apathetic participants who are only concerned with whether or not they're getting a pleasant afterlife and, as such, abandon the role of the church in the material world. On a related note, I'm also not quite sure how Christians in the states can feel satisfied voting for either of the political parties, they both advocate policies that Christ and the apostles never would have approved of, e.g. the death penalty.


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## Camarque (May 25, 2017)

I like the Christian aesthetic, but unfortunately Christianity has always been the most pussified of the three Abrahamic religions.  If I had to choose, I'd probably prefer we went back to paganism. Islam is great also, but unfortunately its current adherents disgust me. Any religion that allows you to answer a woman's plea for equal rights with a rock to the face can't be all that bad.


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## Hat (May 25, 2017)

KF is full of spiritually autistic people who desperately need to stop fapping to gay porn and go to church.


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## millais (May 25, 2017)

Hat said:


> KF is full of spiritually autistic people who desperately need to stop fapping to gay porn and go to church.


many do not understand that traps are sinful and are satan's ploy to draw true believers astray


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## AnOminous (May 25, 2017)

Hat said:


> KF is full of spiritually autistic people who desperately need to stop fapping to gay porn and go to church.



You first!

Also you need to get back to Dwarf Fortress.


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## Morose_Obesity (May 25, 2017)

The less severe churches are a great place to meet hotties.


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## Picklepower (May 26, 2017)

My big questions are, if it was true how would you know which denomination is the one? and how would you know when god was or wasn't angry?


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## Save Goober (May 26, 2017)

In general people really need to stop reading books written by exceptional individuals thousands of years ago. I mean.  The bible is supposed to be the literal word of God and it contradicts itself in some places.  Did god just drop the ball on that or forget or something?  It's just all so exceptional.


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## Save Goober (May 26, 2017)

bearycool said:


> lol fake five dollar bill tips.


Lol, I gave someone negative feedback on ebay for including one of these


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## OtterParty (May 26, 2017)

Ezekiel 23:20-21 said:
			
		

> There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.


refined literature


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## Picklepower (May 26, 2017)

OtterParty said:


> refined literature




I would love to hear that one read out in church!


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## Wraith (May 29, 2017)

Two things: 

One: - Concerning Christianity versus Islam, there is a sermon series I had the pleasure to have experience with called Race, Religion & Racism. It dealt with the very heavy topics of how the church failed and succeed in various things, what God's view of it is based on the Bible and then topped it off with a long session of dealing with a comparative analysis, a consumer's report if you will, comparing Christianity with Islam. This was before 9/11, and the pastor, Pastor Fred K. C. Price, was extremely thorough getting audio clips and in depth information about the Quran, the Hadith and so forth. There was no way after being exposed to information the general public wouldn't really get until after 9/11 that I would side with mud slimes, ever. 

Two: - The God of the Bible won my little self over because there are places in that book where He says to prove Him on stuff. There is also places where He says to remind Him of things He said, so you could plead your case with Him. For a deity, that's so ballsy I figured it was worth a shot. The relationship never let me down yet. 

To those considering it, commence throwing of vegetables and such to that wall over there. 



Spoiler



Oh wait, that's no wall, that's one of my ex gfs. Never mind....


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 30, 2017)

It makes no sense to me to claim that any one church is legitimate and all the others are false. Every denomination is based off of a book that can't be corroborated by anything and is full of nonsensical and contradictory stories; and even if your church followed all the rules like it's supposed to (and no church does) it's ultimately led by a body of fallible humans who are not qualified to educate anyone about the infinite perfection God is claimed to be anyway.


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## Real_Liberian (May 30, 2017)

Does anyone have an opinion on modern nontrinitarianism? The two major players as far as this subject is concerned seem to be Jehovah's Witnesses (who subscribe to a strictly unitarian theology), and the guys who publish _Tomorrow's World_ (I think they're called "Armstrongists", and they seem to be binitarian in that they deny the divinity of the Holy Spirit).

Obviously Jehovah's Witnesses is the far larger of these two organizations, but upon reading their literature it becomes pretty hard to tell them apart at times. They both have a massive theological focus on eschatology, and an organizational focus on multimedia production and dissemination.

Shit is dope, yo.


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## Picklepower (May 30, 2017)

Liberal Christianity makes zero sense to me, when you read the Bible it is extremely clear what god's stance on LGBT issues is. Irl I lie and say I believe in god just to avoid argument, but if I really believed in god I would be scared because I cant picture a moral god. If there is a god and say the Bible is accurate, then non hetero people are doomed. Also if there is a god then I cant help but think he favors some races over others, because if god exists then he must love the torment that the black races have had to suffer, why does he make them the Job of history (as in the character Job) while Europeans flourished? If anyone thinks this is an autistic or dumb post, instead of just leaving a rating, PLEASE tell me why I am wrong.


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## Locksnap (May 30, 2017)

Picklepower said:


> Liberal Christianity makes zero sense to me, when you read the Bible it is extremely clear what god's stance on LGBT issues is. Irl I lie and say I believe in god just to avoid argument, but if I really believed in god I would be scared because I cant picture a moral god. If there is a god and say the Bible is accurate, then non hetero people are doomed. Also if there is a god then I cant help but think he favors some races over others, because if god exists then he must love the torment that the black races have had to suffer, why does he make them the Job of history (as in the character Job) while Europeans flourished? If anyone thinks this is an autistic or dumb post, instead of just leaving a rating, PLEASE tell me why I am wrong.


The Bible is a complex book composed of many different texts with many different authors, and all of them are products of their times. If you insist on Biblical literalism and infallibility then yes, you run into the issue that you describe. But if you view the texts as creations of human authors which were written in specific contexts, then the Bible becomes a valuable tool for understanding those authors and the sincere religious convictions they felt. Through understanding them, you can learn more about yourself and what God means to you.
I'd advise looking into the theology of John Shelby Spong for a better understanding of what this entails.


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## TheProdigalStunna (May 30, 2017)

Picklepower said:


> Liberal Christianity makes zero sense to me, when you read the Bible it is extremely clear what god's stance on LGBT issues is. Irl I lie and say I believe in god just to avoid argument, but if I really believed in god I would be scared because I cant picture a moral god. If there is a god and say the Bible is accurate, then non hetero people are doomed. Also if there is a god then I cant help but think he favors some races over others, because if god exists then he must love the torment that the black races have had to suffer, why does he make them the Job of history (as in the character Job) while Europeans flourished? If anyone thinks this is an autistic or dumb post, instead of just leaving a rating, PLEASE tell me why I am wrong.


Curse of ham, bruv.  Don't laugh at your drunk dad's dick.


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## nad7155 (May 30, 2017)

TaterBot said:


> Religion as such is a burden to people



It was a way for primitive people to explain things they could not comprehend.

Now, it just results in war.

Loving "god" LOL.


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## Alec Benson Leary (May 31, 2017)

Locksnap said:


> But if you view the texts as creations of human authors


Take that far enough like I did, and you just stop believing.


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## PerishableDryGoods (Jun 2, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> It makes no sense to me to claim that any one church is legitimate and all the others are false. Every denomination is based off of a book that can't be corroborated by anything and is full of nonsensical and contradictory stories; and even if your church followed all the rules like it's supposed to (and no church does) it's ultimately led by a body of fallible humans who are not qualified to educate anyone about the infinite perfection God is claimed to be anyway.



here where i live we have more churches than businesses in alot of towns (no really i counted) originally the purpose of a church was supposed to be a community coming together every sunday but then people get tiffy here over the most minor of disputes sometimes just personal disputes not even ideological ones  and make a whole other church instead of accepting they have minor differences so now instead of there being a church of a community you have multiple communities of churches because its easier to do that than get along negating the entire point of Christianity in the first place


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## feedtheoctopus (Jun 2, 2017)

There is nothing more dangerous and stupid in a world where nukes exist than a guy who believes that when the world ends he'll be spirited away to heaven to live the rest of eternity in bliss.


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## TaterBot (Jun 3, 2017)

feedtheoctopus said:


> There is nothing more dangerous and stupid in a world where nukes exist than a guy who believes that when the world ends he'll be spirited away to heaven to live the rest of eternity in bliss.


...with 42 virgins.


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## Florence (Jun 6, 2017)

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...riest-blessu-2-germany-reformation-exhibition
Somebody's been watching too much Futurama.


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## More Spicey Than Coolwhip (Jun 6, 2017)

God hates fags and if you aren't baptized you're going straight to Hell.


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## Alec Benson Leary (Jun 7, 2017)

More Spicey Than Coolwhip said:


> God hates fags and if you aren't baptized you're going straight to Hell.


Not buying it. What if the priest what baptized you is a nobgoblin?


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## More Spicey Than Coolwhip (Jun 7, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> Not buying it. What if the priest what baptized you is a nobgoblin?



I have no idea what you're talking about. Father Randy is a completely abstinent god-fearing christian with a lisp who just really likes the bachelor.


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## Joan Nyan (Jun 8, 2017)

Picklepower said:


> Liberal Christianity makes zero sense to me, when you read the Bible it is extremely clear what god's stance on LGBT issues is. Irl I lie and say I believe in god just to avoid argument, but if I really believed in god I would be scared because I cant picture a moral god. If there is a god and say the Bible is accurate, then non hetero people are doomed. Also if there is a god then I cant help but think he favors some races over others, because if god exists then he must love the torment that the black races have had to suffer, why does he make them the Job of history (as in the character Job) while Europeans flourished? If anyone thinks this is an autistic or dumb post, instead of just leaving a rating, PLEASE tell me why I am wrong.


I have the opposite problem I can't be a Christian because Christianity is too liberal. Jesus was basically a socialist.


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## DatBepisTho (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm hella skeptical about it, to the point it seems like mass Stockholm Syndrome.

 You're a terrible piece of shit, but God loves and won't smite you if you follow his rules which are often debated because someone flubbed translation somewhere down the line.

Edit: And somehow you end up loving God for it.


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## TrannyBO (Jun 8, 2017)

NotAKitty said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/technol...riest-blessu-2-germany-reformation-exhibition
> Somebody's been watching too much Futurama.


Late stage Protestantism.


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## Fareal (Jun 8, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> Not buying it. What if the priest what baptized you is a nobgoblin?



The Sacrament itself is perfect as it is the grace of the Holy Spirit, even if the human vessel performing it is imperfect.

We Catholics think of everything


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## ICametoLurk (Jun 8, 2017)

Jon-Kacho said:


> I have the opposite problem I can't be a Christian because Christianity is too liberal. Jesus was basically a socialist.


He was also a Cultural Marxist



> There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


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## SregginKcuf (Dec 11, 2017)

There is only one way not going to hell. Being baptized with the Holy Spirit.


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## Jack Haywood (Dec 12, 2017)

I'm just going to add a noteworthy fact here.

All the stuff about heaven and hell in modern Christianity was inspired by Zoroastrianism, which is the old religion of the Persians afaik. There's an ultimate good being and ultimate bad being in it, which influenced the opposition of God and Satan in Christianity and Allah and Iblis in Islam.


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## AF 802 (Dec 12, 2017)

I'm a Christian.

I don't subscribe to being too overzealous about it like many are. People are free to go their own ways, I'm not going to tell you otherwise.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Dec 12, 2017)

Threads like this remind me that the Catholic Church was right about everything. Thank God.

That said, I will add my two cents and point out that most sincere practitioners don't believe in Christianity because it comforts them, helps them explain the world, alleviates their pain or loneliness, etc. That's just atheists projecting. Because the idea that other people believe in a faith because they came to the independent, logical, conclusion it was true terrifies them.

Most disciples of Christ simply believe the religion to be true- and would have no choice but to believe it even if they hated it. That's the thing. The idea that you can choose what to believe is a myth. You can't force yourself not to believe something you know deep down to be true. You couldn't force yourself not to believe in gravity- you could pretend, but it would always be an illusion. You would have to be _convinced _utterly for it work. So if you're "choosing" to believe in Christianity for one of the aforementioned reasons, as an example, you never really believed. You're living a lie. You're unconvinced. And you should stop. It's unhealthy.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Dec 17, 2017)

1864897514651 said:


> How did you come across the Roman Catholic Church?



I converted when I was fourteen of my own free will, without the approval of my family. One of our family branches was Catholic, but mine was High Anglican.


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## UnsufficentBoobage (Dec 17, 2017)

I am Orthodox christian, people online kinda tend to forget we even exist. Good for us)


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## PuToTyra (Dec 17, 2017)

Most Christians don't even read the Bible, much less follow it. For them Christianity, the religion, is just an extension of tradition, nationalism and conservative values. 

And if they do read the Bible, it's always selective. They quote and sperg over the parts that are conveneint to them, ignoring everything that isn't as "outdated in modern times". 
The Bible says homosexuality is sodomy and should be punished? 
"Yeee!"
 The Bible says that pre-martial sex and oral sex are the same sort of sodomy and also should be punished?
" Naaah m8 we live in 21st century m8"


The Christians who are theologically aware and with whom you can have intellectual and valuable discussion about such topics are a radical minority even among the clergy.
"Gott ist tott", "and we have killed him" is what Nietzsche said after he witnessed how superficial, polytheistic and empty the religion of Catholics in Bavaria is. This was true in 19th century, it's even more true now.


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## Mrs Paul (Dec 17, 2017)

Yeah, and then Nietzsche kinda went schizo and had to be put in the nuthouse.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Dec 17, 2017)

UnsufficentBoobage said:


> I am Orthodox christian, people online kinda tend to forget we even exist. Good for us)



Y'all have it the best in some ways, to be honest. Nothing is more tedious than listening to the uneducated drone on about one of the most complex and important forces of Good in human history, as if they, the unbelievers know anything about it truly. The Orthodox are almost never the targets of these ill-informed rants.


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## UnsufficentBoobage (Dec 18, 2017)

We have smartass atheists on the russian-speaking net, too, and they are just as insufferable. So I feel you.


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## PuToTyra (Dec 19, 2017)

UnsufficentBoobage said:


> We have smartass atheists on the russian-speaking net, too, and they are just as insufferable. So I feel you.



You also have compulsory religious education and it's forbidden by law to offended the fee fees of orthodox person irl. I think your country is far more insufferable for internet atheists than atheists are for you.


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## c-no (Dec 19, 2017)

Been a Christian since a wee little sperg but I didn't actually bother following it until my teen years. Much as a I mellowed out of it, I find it interesting it has an impact in philosophy.



Gym Leader Elesa said:


> Y'all have it the best in some ways, to be honest. Nothing is more tedious than listening to the uneducated drone on about one of the most complex and important forces of Good in human history, as if they, the unbelievers know anything about it truly. The Orthodox are almost never the targets of these ill-informed rants.


One would only wonder how one could rant about Orthodoxy. While the Russian Orthodox church may be a good target, they're more of an arm of Russia iirc.


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## PuToTyra (Dec 19, 2017)

Yes, you could rant about polytheism, about the escapist nature of monasticism, about how orthodox church has always been subservant to secular power,  about how doctrine of trinity was made up for political reasons, how the teachings of their church are some of the most socially backwards on the Earth(right after Sunni Islam) and many other things

Edit: oh and also how Orthodox church makes facebook groups which are supposedly a "defence of all Christendom" but in reality contain thinly-veiled orthodox anti-catholic and anti-protestant propaganda.

I was banned from one such a group for saying that if Catholics are servants of pope(as one of the posts stated), then orthodox are servants of Putin.


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## Joan Nyan (Dec 19, 2017)

It's a good thing Christians only bother to read the gospels and not the Old Testament, otherwise they'd realize Jesus didn't fulfill any of the prophecies of the messiah and that they're worshiping a false idol.


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## UnsufficentBoobage (Dec 19, 2017)

PuToTyra
I agree that modern state of our church is disastorous, tbh. 
But internet atheists are still bothersome, mostly cause lots of them are hypocritical (often believe in ancient aliens and we-live-in-computer-simulation stuff, while making fun of christians for believing in "fairy tales") or not even atheist, but annoying neo-pagans, who in Russia are often fascist to boot.
I have no problem with ones who are just people who don't hold faith, instead of hypocritical edgy cunts.


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## bearycool (Dec 19, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> Threads like this remind me that the Catholic Church was right about everything. Thank God.
> 
> That said, I will add my two cents and point out that most sincere practitioners don't believe in Christianity because it comforts them, helps them explain the world, alleviates their pain or loneliness, etc. That's just atheists projecting. Because the idea that other people believe in a faith because they came to the independent, logical, conclusion it was true terrifies them.
> 
> Most disciples of Christ simply believe the religion to be true- and would have no choice but to believe it even if they hated it. That's the thing. The idea that you can choose what to believe is a myth. You can't force yourself not to believe something you know deep down to be true. You couldn't force yourself not to believe in gravity- you could pretend, but it would always be an illusion. You would have to be _convinced _utterly for it work. So if you're "choosing" to believe in Christianity for one of the aforementioned reasons, as an example, you never really believed. You're living a lie. You're unconvinced. And you should stop. It's unhealthy.



As an agnostic/someone-who-believes-in-reincarnation-but-no-specific-god-yet/psychologist, that is the idea of a "belief": it is something you hold to your deepest core and becomes part of your identity. It defines your existence, and thus your perception is altered to fit that paradigm of faith-- this happens for Atheists as well, who have a wrapped perception of "faith". It's also why I chose agnoisticism, as I can never really truly no, and it's probably the most empirical "belief" at the moment-- as we can neither prove or disprove God fully. We can give some running mathematical logic of infinity and go into philosophy, but for the sake of this post we're going to just summarize some shit on my own personal level and perception.

Do I hold a belief that Christianity wrong? Yes, but not in everything-- for one, the golden rule "love your neighbor as yourself" still holds "true" to me as is part of my core beliefs. I believe that every religion has parts that they have gotten right with existence and being a "good" person, and, hell, even some ideas on what "God" actually is, and what that means for the universe at large. The most spiritual thing that I have taken and still hold "true" is the idea of reincarnation-- even with the idea of "well, you don't have memories from before, soooo, how could you have existed before?"

Well, if there exists an absolute, infinite being, it wouldn't be that hard for it to let a "soul" to exist for a very long time, but have their "physical" (but not spiritual) memory wiped. This makes since psychologically, as I believe an individual human can really only hold the information of a single life without huge psychological issues developing, as we see with special cases of individual who remember literally every second of their life since birth: they literally are autistic and have problems with sleeping and being able to function in the normal world. Sooooo, adding more than one life in its fullest is going to fuck you up-- hell, you may even develop actual distinctive identity disorder in theory, as that would be two different "selves" even if they held the same essence deep within them.

The rest of the other life times and their information is stored in a much bigger storage unit that one may be quick to say is our "higher self" or our "bigger soul, outside of the individual mind", or some place where experiences are placed, much like a library of different lifetimes. Our brain does store the individual lifetime we are living, and we can empirically see this by the fact that we only really pick up on the current life time we are living, and the rest is used in a way that we cannot see yet. However, it's not proven, and just a nice little "belief" I have.

So why did I say all this shit? Well, to prove a point that both Gym and I are saying: that "truth" equals "belief" on a subjective level, and given a moment, people can come up with very valid, very logical conclusions using different paradigms, either physical and empirical, or metaphysical and philosophical-- both work in a sense, especially on something as hard to prove as "God", especially one that is infinite and all powerful. To tackle the ideas of existence and "who we are" is difficult-- and being in a strict religious paradigm is going to drastically alter your perception of reality. 

Hell, that's a dimension of how cults work-- via brain washing. The same concept applies: what you deep down believe as a "truth" is going to alter your perception and how you logically approach issues.


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## bearycool (Dec 19, 2017)

> you can't force yourself not to believe something you know deep down to be true. You couldn't force yourself not to believe in gravity- you could pretend, but it would always be an illusion. You would have to be _convinced _utterly for it (not) to work.



The one thing that broke my "truth" of Christianity was the idea of homosexuality, and being homosexual myself. It was the one thing that I could not work around, no matter how hard I tried to work against it. It was the one singular thing that told me empirically "bro, you didn't choose to be gay; this is something that has been within you all this time. the Christians were WRONG to call it a sin, as you cannot choose this. And hell, even if you could choose it-- what is ACTUALLY wrong with loving someone romantically and sexually of the same gender? The bible keeps saying stuff about 'love', so why is this 'love' considered a sin? That seems like a contradiction."

That's why christianity doesn't work for me-- not only does it call a fundamental part of me "sinful", it also contradicts itself on the principal it says to profess, which is "love". After all these years, I still haven't found a valid argument why loving the same sex is a "sin" and not "love", both personally as a homosexual, and by logical argument.

It's only when your belief starts hitting your core understand and perception of the world in a wrong way does your perception start changing and you see the "truth" in a different life. Do I still hold certain christian values? Yes, of course. Am I Christian? No, not anymore (emphasis on not anymore-- I truly believe I used to be one),  and that's because I found out it was wrong on a very fundamental thing.


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## Joan Nyan (Dec 19, 2017)

bearycool said:


> After all these years, I still haven't found a valid argument why loving the same sex is a "sin" and not "love", both personally as a homosexual, and by logical argument.


I'll try. 

Disconnect the word "sin" from the idea of evil. Good and evil are arbitrary and imprecise human concepts. God doesn't judge things in the human categories of "good" and "evil", but by Aristotelian "good", as in fulfilling its purpose. When God saw light and said it was "good", he didn't mean it was morally righteous, but that it was good at illuminating things. 

The purpose of sexual desire is to have children. If your sexual orientation doesn't lead to you having children, it isn't good.


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## bearycool (Dec 19, 2017)

Jon-Kacho said:


> I'll try.
> 
> Disconnect the word "sin" from the idea of evil. Good and evil are arbitrary and imprecise human concepts. God doesn't judge things in the human categories of "good" and "evil", but by Aristotelian "good", as in fulfilling its purpose. When God saw light and said it was "good", he didn't mean it was morally righteous, but that it was good at illuminating things.
> 
> The purpose of sexual desire is to have children. If your sexual orientation doesn't lead to you having children, it isn't good.



Okay, I get the original meaning is "to stray from the mark" -- like literally an arrow not hitting the target on point. But then... what's straying from the mark besides it's not doing the original function of reproduction? I also get the concept that sex is first a reproductive act before all things. But then the question becomes: is that all it can be used for? Like seriously, using sex for just having reproduction is absolutely stupid, as most of the times it feels fucking good and that's the main reason why people do it. If God made sex pleasurable, the only time he would be calling it a sin is overtly abusing it-- and the definition of "abusing sex" is left for mankind to interpret, because that is complicated stuff based on your ethics and "morality". However, I think the more people realize that sex is just sex and nothing more, the more they'll realize that that is probably how "God" sees it; just a form of pleasure that, when not ABUSED, leads to some good times.

I mean, I think Oscar Wilde said it best: "*Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.” *is a good quote to run by for a second. Sex is powerful, but fun; just use it wisely. 

Tl;dr the purpose of sex just to have children is just too narrow and is not absolutely correct, as sex feels good and getting a child out of your vagina is not so much.


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## bearycool (Dec 19, 2017)

1864897514651 said:


> Let me explain something to you. You say that you believe God cannot be known, but you reject the very notion of sacrifice. Nobody has ever become stronger by falling into vice and sin, and I reckon you already understand this by the temptations of your sexual perversion. Because of our sins, we are in debt our entire lives. Debt necessitates a balance, and that is why men of good-will labor for justice—"Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Notice the wording; blessed are they that suffer. It is directly stated in this excerpt from the Holy Bible that we must sacrifice our lives for the sake of repaying the debt of sin. This would mean, for you, exercising your God-given free will to abstain from the temptations of your sexual perversion—and perhaps what ever other sins you may have to bear. That is your cross to bear, and it is many others' cross to bear, as well.
> 
> Our Lord condescended in the form of His Perfect Son, Jesus the Christ, in order to provide men with a Perfect Sacrifice that would be made for the propitiation of our sins and the release of death. If you do not believe in the sacrificial nature of God, then it only makes sense that you would rather make yourself out to be your own god. But should you understand sacrifice—and more importantly, the Perfect Sacrifice of our God—then you should take solace in knowing that our Lord fell three times when bearing His cross.
> 
> ...



Okay after reading this, I have this to say: I get it, but I still feel like this is wrong.

Like I can't relate to how God would have a logical thing to dislike gays besides enjoying a regular pleasure that everyone haves. This whole "suffering" thing is kind of stupid, as everyone suffers pretty fucking greatly on average in the world-- so I don't see why we need to get specific on what type of suffering you must incur on yourself??? I think simply living on this earth and having to deal with existing and other humans is more than enough suffering for all of us.

Like bruh, I already go through shit; and being told that your existence and the way your brain works is a "sin" is very, very disrespectful to an already exhausted human. I simply cannot follow your logic even though I understand it.


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## Joan Nyan (Dec 19, 2017)

bearycool said:


> If God made sex pleasurable, the only time he would be calling it a sin is overtly abusing it





bearycool said:


> Tl;dr the purpose of sex just to have children is just too narrow and is not absolutely correct, as sex feels good and getting a child out of your vagina is not so much.



This only follows if you think the purpose of human beings is to feel the most pleasure, which the Bible doesn't agree with at all. In fact the entire idea of pleasure being good and pain being bad is a product of our corrupted system of human morality.


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## bearycool (Dec 19, 2017)

Jon-Kacho said:


> This only follows if you think the purpose of human beings is to feel the most pleasure, which the Bible doesn't agree with at all. In fact the entire idea of pleasure being good and pain being bad is a product of our corrupted system of human morality.



Erm, pain and pleasure are just two sides of the same coin. I don't operate solely on the bible; that's too narrow. You can't have one without the other, and enjoying a balanced life is the healthier way of doing things.

So no, I don't believe in hedonism; you need a balance.

Like my God, experiencing just pain sounds stupid; you need pleasure too. Experiencing just pleasure means you can't apperciate what you have, so you need pain too.

They compliment each other.


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## PuToTyra (Dec 19, 2017)

Jon-Kacho said:


> It's a good thing Christians only bother to read the gospels and not the Old Testament, otherwise they'd realize Jesus didn't fulfill any of the prophecies of the messiah and that they're worshiping a false idol.



Yes, and the funniest thing is, Jesus never even said that Old Testament isn't relevant, he just rejected a single law of burned sacrifice. 

Jesus also always called himself a son of man, the son of God belief came much later, and was incorporated into offical Christian doctrine of Trinity during the council of Nicaea for political reasons as an attempt to marry different cults that Christianity was divided among at the time(including Jesus-god worshipping Arianism)


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## Joan Nyan (Dec 19, 2017)

bearycool said:


> I don't operate solely on the bible; that's too narrow.


Of course not but this is a thread about Christianity and the Bible is what we're talking about here. I'm not trying to make a case that makes sense, or is moral, or is correct, I'm trying to make one based on the Bible which is none of those things.


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## Captain_Asshole (Dec 20, 2017)

> But here's my two cents: Islam is a lot more overt with its evil, and Christianity is a lot more insidious with its evil and hides it a lot more easily.



Can't agree anymore with that. I witness it almost every damn day.

Now, on to the point. I am an atheist, I do not mind anyone holding any kind of  belief and that includes christianity as well, as long it does not influence their judgement and train of thought.  Apart from that, things that grind my gears and happen to personally encounter quite often when it comes to religion is when faithful people hold elitist views towards people of a different viewpoint, be that atheism or another religion. That can include the (absurdly stupid) belief that having faith automatically gives you a monopoly on morals and ''goodness'' over the ''faithless'', the ridiculously stupid and pretentious claim that one simply _is _faithful to something without having to get to know it or comprehend it or otherwise they are fake believers. Lastly, the belief that there is one and only *one* way to interpret the teachings of a particular faith which very often comes with the added effect of blindly believing in the infallibility of said faith's church, forgetting that a church is but a man-made system of institutions that can do mistakes, both logical and moral. Of course, it is perfectly possible to hold faith to something, whatever that may be, and still be a functional and unbiased human being. I do happen to have met few people that fit this description both christian and of other faiths.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Dec 21, 2017)

Captain_Asshole said:


> as long it does not influence their judgement and train of thought.



I hate to lead a man to hate the Holy Church, but that's just not possible. My religion, and the faith of anyone who actually has faith (of any religion), is going to be profoundly affected by it. I consider my religion when doing literally anything. It affects how I eat, sleep, live, my marriage, everything I could ever do. I consider it when I am posting on KF (it's what makes me a bad member of my religion...) But it never leaves me. Not for one moment. And I would argue for most. You have never met someone who truly believes in a religion like Islam who hasn't judged you and their own lives by it. I assure you. 

I weighed the morality of correcting this belief when I made this very post- was it better to let you believe this, so as to not dislike the faithful more, or was it better to correct you and lead you to hate the Church further?


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## Joan Nyan (Dec 21, 2017)

1864897514651 said:


> If the Church was man-made, then it comes to suppose that Jesus was not God, the death of Jesus on the cross did not save us, and Jesus never had the Church as His Bride. Thus, every man then becomes his own god, and we are as if we were nothing. Life becomes worthless.


There are other religions besides Christianity and nihilism you know. Were the Jews, before Jesus was born, living worthless lives and being their own gods?


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## escapegoat (Dec 21, 2017)

I can see how posting here probably doesn't mesh well with scrupulosity.


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## Gym Leader Elesa (Dec 21, 2017)

escapegoat said:


> I can see how posting here probably doesn't mesh well with scrupulosity.



I am going to Hell. No doubt.


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## ES 148 (Dec 21, 2017)

bearycool said:


> Like bruh, I already go through shit; and being told that your existence and the way your brain works is a "sin" is very, very disrespectful to an already exhausted human. I simply cannot follow your logic even though I understand it.



Even if someone wasn't gay it wouldn't matter as all have sinned and all sin is equal in the eyes of God. Everybody's existence and the way their brain works is sinful.

Also, 'disrespectful' isn't even a thing humanity should consider calling God as he is objectively correct all the time. Personally I disagree with God's views on homosexuality but he's right so I just don't bring it up much. Logic in the human sense doesn't work when dealing with Christianity and that's just something I have to deal with.


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## jewelry investor (Dec 21, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> I am going to Hell. No doubt.


Just repent fam. You can avoid infinity years of getting molten brass getting force fed down your throat, without break, no numbing, body regenerates.


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## Really Makes You Think (Dec 22, 2017)

Catholic to Fedora Tipper to Catholic to Greek Orthodox here. 

Fuck Papist Francis, he's the anti christ. Amen


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## Captain_Asshole (Dec 22, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> I hate to lead a man to hate the Holy Church, but that's just not possible. My religion, and the faith of anyone who actually has faith (of any religion), is going to be profoundly affected by it. I consider my religion when doing literally anything. It affects how I eat, sleep, live, my marriage, everything I could ever do. I consider it when I am posting on KF (it's what makes me a bad member of my religion...) But it never leaves me. Not for one moment. And I would argue for most. You have never met someone who truly believes in a religion like Islam who hasn't judged you and their own lives by it. I assure you.
> 
> I weighed the morality of correcting this belief when I made this very post- was it better to let you believe this, so as to not dislike the faithful more, or was it better to correct you and lead you to hate the Church further?



Neither, my disposition remains pretty much the same. Nice to witness your moral concern for it though.


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## Captain_Asshole (Dec 22, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> I am going to Hell. No doubt.





escapegoat said:


> I can see how posting here probably doesn't mesh well with scrupulosity.



Schyea, shitposting on KF will ultimately erode one's  soul, of all things.


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## Alec Benson Leary (Dec 28, 2017)

Gym Leader Elesa said:


> That said, I will add my two cents and point out that most sincere practitioners don't believe in Christianity because it comforts them, helps them explain the world, alleviates their pain or loneliness, etc. That's just atheists projecting. Because the idea that other people believe in a faith because they came to the independent, logical, conclusion it was true terrifies them.


I'm going to disagree with you a little on this. Undoubtedly there are atheists who are condescending and dismissive of anyone with faith (we have many threads on such individuals and groups!). But I don't believe that the majority of any faith have truly and legitimately reasoned it out for themselves. Many have maybe. But many are just being as dismissive of alternative views as those shitty atheists and only sticking with it because the familiar is always comfortable. I've known plenty of those types and I can't believe you haven't. 

I'm an atheist, but I don't doubt you when you say you've reasoned your way into a legitimate, intellectually honest faith in your religion. I also am not terrified or in denial that you are right and I am wrong. Why would any atheist take the path they do if they were so confident it was the wrong one? I've done a lot of soul-searching on my place in the universe and if it had led me to believe the Christian god was undoubtedle and the bible absolutely correct, why wouldn't I follow it?

I don't think reason can without a doubt lead a person to the one objective truth of reality, at least not in the short time any one person has to live. I've come to the conclusion that we are not capable of reasoning that efficiently, and that to believe we are may be insulting to that god if he is real. (So if anything I'm more akin to those Christians who say "I don't know and can't prove, but my faith leads me to believe taking a chance on this higher thing is the best choice").



bearycool said:


> Okay, I get the original meaning is "to stray from the mark" -- like literally an arrow not hitting the target on point. But then... what's straying from the mark besides it's not doing the original function of reproduction? I also get the concept that sex is first a reproductive act before all things. But then the question becomes: is that all it can be used for? Like seriously, using sex for just having reproduction is absolutely stupid, as most of the times it feels fucking good and that's the main reason why people do it. If God made sex pleasurable, the only time he would be calling it a sin is overtly abusing it-- and the definition of "abusing sex" is left for mankind to interpret, because that is complicated stuff based on your ethics and "morality". However, I think the more people realize that sex is just sex and nothing more, the more they'll realize that that is probably how "God" sees it; just a form of pleasure that, when not ABUSED, leads to some good times.
> 
> I mean, I think Oscar Wilde said it best: "*Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.” *is a good quote to run by for a second. Sex is powerful, but fun; just use it wisely.
> 
> Tl;dr the purpose of sex just to have children is just too narrow and is not absolutely correct, as sex feels good and getting a child out of your vagina is not so much.


I really have a problem with the idea that sex is only for procreation because it is observably not true. The majority of animal species on earth do mate only to reproduce, but there are many who practice mating behavior for another reason - social bonding/pair-bonding. Many of those animals include the other apes/primates with whom we share so many other characteristics.

If you boil down any practice to one obvious core purpose, then why not the rest? If sex outside of procreative purposes is wrong then how about hugging or kissing? You shouldn't hug a person unless it's within the bounds of matrimony and as a direct overture to begin producing a child. How about food? Food's only purpose is to nourish you, so if you ever enjoy the taste or eat any other time than you prevent an immediate health concern or starvation you're doing it wrong. Why do anything that feels pleasurable if you can make an arbitrary argument that a more mechanical purpose to that act takes precedence?

Which leads to another question that you can ask about an omnipotent god regarding any subject really - if sex outside of reproduction is wrong, why did god give us the drive for it? We already know that chemical imbalances, medical problems, emotional difficulty, etc. can kill a human's sex drive. We also know a lot of those animals I mentioned don't have their sex drives running all the time. So why did god set ours to always run if it's such a bad thing?


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## Joan Nyan (Dec 28, 2017)

Alec Benson Leary said:


> Which leads to another question that you can ask about an omnipotent god regarding any subject really - if sex outside of reproduction is wrong, why did god give us the drive for it? We already know that chemical imbalances, medical problems, emotional difficulty, etc. can kill a human's sex drive. We also know a lot of those animals I mentioned don't have their sex drives running all the time. So why did god set ours to always run if it's such a bad thing?


Punishment for the Garden of Eden, or something.


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## SregginKcuf (Jan 22, 2018)

I am going to heaven, according to John 3:18.


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