# Why do men have higher rates of suicide?



## ZeCommissar (Nov 30, 2016)

Most people know that men commit suicide more than women. Some people are ignorant and assume that since depression and self harm are higher in women, then they must commit more suicide as well.

This trend is seen across the entire world across almost every culture.

Why are men more likely to commit suicide? Is it because in the majority of societies want men to repress their feelings? Is it because men are more efficient at it? What are the thoughts of kiwis?


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## Null (Nov 30, 2016)

That's only half true. Women attempt suicide more than men. Men commit suicide more than women.


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## DuskEngine (Nov 30, 2016)

ZeCommissar said:


> Some people are ignorant and assume that since depression and self harm are higher in women, then they must commit more suicide as well.



The rate of _attempted_ suicide is commensurately higher among women.

Anyway, men are just globally better at violence, it seems. It stands to reason that this includes violence against themselves.


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## Kartoffel (Nov 30, 2016)

As far as I'm informed, women also prefer less painful methods (like overdosing on certain meds), while men choose more often the most effective solution (like shooting yourself in the head). So it's kinda obvious that woman have a higher attemption rate (because the dieing process itself seems tolerable) while also falling more often (because the damage can be possibly undone or prevented by other people).


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## DuckSucker (Nov 30, 2016)

Men are the disposable gender. Fodder for the front lines and fodder for factories.

It's not so black and white (obviously everybody has a different opinion) but that really simplifies it.


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## Sperglord Dante (Nov 30, 2016)

While designing a reinforced beam, an engineer must be wary about how much steel he uses. A section which has too much steel is considered an over-reinforced section, an it's undesirable because the concrete fails before the steel yields and it's a explosive, sudden failure. Nobody sees it coming until it's too late. A section which has just enough steel so it yields before the concrete core is crushed is called an under-reinforced section, and it's the standard for design because it's safer. An under-reinforced section bends and cracks before failing, giving enough time for people to notice something's terribly wrong.

What do reinforced beams have to with male suicide rates, you ask? lemme explain:


ZeCommissar said:


> Most people know that men commit suicide more than women. Some people are ignorant and assume that since depression and self harm are higher in women, then they must commit more suicide as well.





Null said:


> That's only half true. Women attempt suicide more than men. Men commit suicide more than women.


Women are under-reinforced beams. They show their cracks before falling apart .They're diagnosed with depression, they post suicide notes on social media, they try to OD on sleeping pills. That's how people notice something is wrong with them, and that's how they get help.

Men are over-reinforced beams. They just keep on piling and piling stress without showing any exterior signs, until one day they blow apart. 

Most men are taught not to show weakness in front of others since they're young. It has its merits but it also has it's obvious downfalls.


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## Some JERK (Nov 30, 2016)

Women tend to chose less painful methods that will leave their corpse presentable. 



Spoiler: Men on the other hand...


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## Jan_Hus (Nov 30, 2016)

A combination of many, many factors. Stress and no purpose in life are two things that come to my mind. id also say lack of a support structure is third on this list, while. Finally I'll put a small amount of blame on *that* part of the media and the outlets and people who scream "all men are evil scum REEEEEEE"


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## yuna (Nov 30, 2016)

Kartoffel said:


> So it's kinda obvious that woman have a higher attemption rate (because the dieing process itself seems tolerable) while also falling more often (because the damage can be possibly undone or prevented by other people).



drug overdose also fails most of the time _without _any help being sought. most people od on shit that does literally nothing lethal. even if you pick a harmful drug, you're more likely wake up in a puddle of your own vomit than you are to die. 



Sperglord Dante said:


> Women are under-reinforced beams. They show their cracks before falling apart .They're diagnosed with depression, they post suicide notes on social media, they try to OD on sleeping pills. That's how people notice something is wrong with them, and that's how they get help.
> 
> Men are over-reinforced beams. They just keep on piling and piling stress without showing any exterior signs, until one day they blow apart.



this is probably the best analogy I've heard. 

as an answer for op's question, one could argue that this difference is created by society's expectations for men.


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## Quijibo69 (Nov 30, 2016)

Some JERK said:


> Women tend to chose less painful methods that will leave their corpse presentable.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Men on the other hand...




Brendan Fraser really doesn't care anymore.


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## Anchuent Christory (Nov 30, 2016)

Men are expected to be strong, stoic and emotionless. We're supposed to just "get on with it" and bulldoze through issues that crop up in our lives. We're especially not supposed to talk to our male peers about such things, because that would make us weak and them uncomfortable. 
I don't need to tell anybody that that's a ridiculously unhealthy way to live and it's all going to come crashing down eventually. 

Unless our sports team loses, then it's totes okay to cry like babies and hug each other.


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## friedshrimp (Nov 30, 2016)

Could be something something about guns, and how men buy them more than women. Could be how some women tend to be over-medicated more often than men.

And the whole double-standards, that women are allowed to show their feelings and display their distress and frustration, while men are expected to bottle those things up and just keep working and holding together the "house". Also this sense of "chivalry" that is present in most people, that when they see a woman in peril they rush to her aid, but men are expected to "suck it up and do it yourself". It's an ages old idea regarding the genders, and it even ties into modern feminist narrative "all men are evil reeh and we must save women cause sisterhood".


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## Hyperion (Nov 30, 2016)

Because women talk too much.


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## vertexwindi (Nov 30, 2016)

Null said:


> That's only half true. Women attempt suicide more than men. Men commit suicide more than women.


Is there anything men can't do better than women?


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## ZeCommissar (Nov 30, 2016)

Also I realized that since it's natural for men to *usually *be the seekers of intimate relationships, and as we all know there is no shortage of Nice Guys and incels, or just men that aren't that successful with women. I mean hell some men that ARE sucessful with attaining partners might get left by a spouse.

 I could imagine this is a more prominent factor in countries like China and India with a huge gap in gender due to high female abortion/infantcide. This would cause more men than women, and most places have slightly more women than men. I shouldn't have to tell you what happens when almost a fourth of the male population are physically unable to find partners not because  they are retarded, but because they aren't many around.

 I will have to do more research on that though when I feel like it tho.


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## Todesfurcht (Nov 30, 2016)

*I have easily broken it down into three things:*
1. There are more men in the population
2. High expectations from peers, family, and society
3. Men choose more lethal methods


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## IV 445 (Nov 30, 2016)

I think girls attempt suicide more often out of attention. They don't really want to die, they just want to feel better, and have people rush to their side when they feel lonely.

Guys aren't "like that" when it comes to attention-seeking methods. When guys try to kill themselves, they really want to die.

I guess when guys want attention or feel lonely, they try other things, but that's where my knowledge ends.


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## Raziel (Nov 30, 2016)

All men are C.S.I. scum and don't deserve any remorse or pity, but in all seriousness, i think it really does come to being able to vent your frustrations and talking about your problems is one of the best ways of doing that, unfortunately men aren't allowed to do that cause if they do that, they'll be considered a pussy.


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## Bassomatic (Nov 30, 2016)

I think a large factor aside mentioning males pick more effective methods is the mix of society and biological ideas of honor. Medically speaking men are more disposable, any good parent would give their lives to protect their children, we've all heard horror stories of that with out a doubt it's a mix of love and biology we do so.  But if we have a partner males are the protector we hold our partner in high esteem, and fitness (in a species way) hence we are with them. If a husband and wife were crossing the street the man taking the car hit to protect the woman is much more common and reasonable.

I in no way do mean this as women are dishonorable or lesser for it it's just how we are built. I've also over the years just through casual talk found in "what ifs" of dire situations like super cancer, coma etc. The guys all seem to say pull the plug or I'll do it, girls it's a mixed bag. Ask a few guys and girls "what would make you kill yourself?" 99% of the time men will have a longer list if any at all.

I think we also have a hard time with "grey area" suicide, easiest example is historically almost all male of something like a rescue or combat. Running back into the burning building, or not leaving your bunker. Women haven't been exposed to these things as much and the cultural push is a bit more respectful for men who take their own lives even if not in a noble deed. So I can see how someone super depressed of losing a job would feel among those ranks as Leonides by not becoming a burden. 

I think very much we as a society need to rethink how we feel and approach those who are at risk and understand what I consider the "real" number of suicides to be incredibly higher than what is listed. A guy who's upset and sees no reason to change his chain smoking, drug use, poor eating etc but holds a job when his liver fails it's cancer who got him, not he was black out drunk 7 days a week for 20 years.  If someone got some kind of push to sort himself out early or if he literally felt unfixable and didn't feel pressured out of eating a .45 sundae forcing him to take a harsh slow road, but I don't want to swap topics to if suicide is ok or should be seen as such.

Over all I think it's a mix of biology and culture and even in a system of perfect medical and mental health care, men still would more often.

Little personal evidence, friends I have whom are married, both signed over power for that to me because neither agree, one wants plug pulled other not, both disagree with each other and don't trust families. Guess who's who.


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## Beaniebon (Dec 1, 2016)

vertexwindi said:


> Is there anything men can't do better than women?


Live


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## DuskEngine (Dec 1, 2016)

Todesfurcht said:


> 1. There are more men in the population



No there aren't.


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## DuckSucker (Dec 1, 2016)

Hortator said:


> I think girls attempt suicide more often out of attention. They don't really want to die, they just want to feel better, and have people rush to their side when they feel lonely.
> 
> Guys aren't "like that" when it comes to attention-seeking methods. When guys try to kill themselves, they really want to die.



The "traditional masculinity" bullshit (for better and for worse) --the way men have to be, the stigma around being a man, I posted earlier in this thread and that sort of issue is what I was trying to hint at.

Even though this thread is inherently "about gender" I dont really want to seem like I'm sperging about "who has it worse", and I dont think people often ACTUALLY attempt suicide for attention but when a woman "cries out" over any issue, there is going to be someone there. If a woman has a mark on her body, a bruise, a scar, self-harm wounds, people identify that and immediately say "Oh what's wrong? What happened? Are you okay?" If a man has a mark on his body, a scar, a burn mark, it's manly, tough and cool (I'm guilty of this). If a man has, self harm wounds, the initial reaction is not "Oh what's wrong? Are you okay?" The reaction is more tempered and ranges from "oh, whatever" to "what's this dude's problem? Hes fucking insane." It may not even be anything, and this person just got a mark in their day-to-day life, but it's about interpretation.

I think you could equally ask the question, "Why do women ATTEMPT suicide more often than men?" It's just as much of an issue; nobody attempts suicide just for attention, they always really do want to die for one reason or another. But I think a part of it is just that: when a woman attempts suicide, people pick up on what's going on, they interpret the signs more clearly, they care and are aware. A man's (subconscious) attempt at suicide can be just as easily chalked up to "dumb men", "boys will be boys", recklessness, poor decisions, picking fights, irrationality, any number of other things. When women drink to excess it's because theyre vulnerable and masking a problem. When men drink to excess, it's lazy losers who do it because they're alcoholics and think that's just super fun. That's the type of different interpretation Im talking about, although people generally  do try and make each judgement call in its own context. We help them both, but there is a bit more shame cast on one group than the other ("You did this to yourself. You deserve this."). There are more failed men than failed women.

It's a scarlet letter. In particular, since this is a thread about suicide, I'll say all self harm wounds are a red flag, and a warning sign. But when a man has those signs, the red flag isn't interpreted as a signal for help or attention, or whatever, it's interpreted as a huge warning signal to stay hands off of the dude. Is he going to lash out, is he mentally sane, can the dude cope? Is he going to rape someone, murder someone? Does the dude start fights? Did this man deserve these marks? It's always the quiet ones who snap, is there any reason to bother with this dude? Sorts of issues like that. On top of that, there is the stigma of being a "weak man". Nobody wants to bring it up, it's awkward to bring it up, you dont really know how to fix it; it might not even be anything, the dude might not want you to get involved, and you might not even pick up on it being anything different.

A lot of times, it isn't anything, but my point is that it's not necessarily down to expectations, it's not necessarily that people expect women to be more fragile and vulnerable while men should be stoic and emotionless, it's that people genuinely care. The signs are interpreted differently, in a subtle way, and I do think people care more about women (and that concern carries plenty of negative issues with it), which isn't wrong, I don't want to change that, I just state it as something you subconsciously notice. I'll stand by the disposable men thing because it's true--even biologically so.



DuskEngine said:


> No there aren't.


Men are born at a way higher rate, like 2 to 1, but women live longer. So statistically it evens out and slightly leans towards more women being alive if you look at overall population, but up until the 50-60 age group, there are a lot more men than women in most age groups.


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## Sailor_Jupiter (Dec 1, 2016)

Because more is expected of them.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Dec 1, 2016)

ZeCommissar said:


> Most people know that men commit suicide more than women. Some people are ignorant and assume that since depression and self harm are higher in women, then they must commit more suicide as well.
> 
> This trend is seen across the entire world across almost every culture.
> 
> Why are men more likely to commit suicide? Is it because in the majority of societies want men to repress their feelings? Is it because men are more efficient at it? What are the thoughts of kiwis?


Men are more likely to commit violent acts of suicide while women are more likely to commit reversible and non-violent acts of suicide. Men are more likely to shoot themselves in the mouth women take a pill...see the difference. Men that commit suicide actually want to kill themselves.


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## Brandobaris (Dec 1, 2016)

Sperglord Dante said:


> Most men are taught not to show weakness in front of others since they're young. It has its merits but it also has it's obvious downfalls.



I'm interested in this theory.  Because I don't believe that the "don't show weakness" behaviour is an entirely learned behaviour.  Similar to the story about the Teacher that gave Candy to the children to share, first the girls, and then the boys.

The girls doled out the Candy to their "favored" boys in the class, while the rest of the boys got nothing, so about 20% of the boys ended up with almost half the Candy.

When the Boys had control of the Candy, they distributed it amongst all the girls, even the ones that weren't liked in class.  So it seems at a young age, Boys tend to think in terms of whats best for the group as a whole, rather than what will benefit them personally.


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## TsumTsum (Dec 1, 2016)

I legit just did a paper on suicide and women are 3 times as likely to attempt suicide while men are 4 times as likely to succeed. This is due to women opting into less messy suicide methods such as pills/slitting wrists to preserve their body and reduce percieved clean up stress for those that find them. While men just don't give a fuck and often shoot/hang themselves. 

People tend to reach out more to women when they are suffering and not men because men are expected to "suck it up". In addition, in general women show more emotion than men so it's easier to spot the woman who is gonna pop off. People get scared of visibily upset men while feel sympathy for a visibly upset woman.

tl;dr female priviledge


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## Mariposa Electrique (Dec 1, 2016)

TsumTsum said:


> I legit just did a paper on suicide and women are 3 times as likely to attempt suicide while men are 4 times as likely to succeed. This is due to women opting into less messy suicide methods such as pills/slitting wrists to preserve their body and reduce percieved clean up stress for those that find them. While men just don't give a fuck and often shoot/hang themselves.
> 
> People tend to reach out more to women when they are suffering and not men because men are expected to "suck it up". In addition, in general women show more emotion than men so it's easier to spot the woman who is gonna pop off. People get scared of visibily upset men while feel sympathy for a visibly upset woman.
> 
> tl;dr female priviledge


I think that the ratio of "suicide" is still the same between genders, but a lot of women tend try to commit suicide as a cry for help after feeling cornered.


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## Beaniebon (Dec 1, 2016)

Men tend to be told to suck it up when they reach out for help. Depression and suicidal thoughts are seen as weak and unmanly. It's pretty fucked up honestly. 

That and as others have said about how men and women go about suicide (pills vs shooting and shit).


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## ICametoLurk (Dec 1, 2016)

Null said:


> That's only half true. Women attempt suicide more than men. Men commit suicide more than women.


I guess you can say that men have the _balls_ to kill themselves.


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## DNJACK (Dec 1, 2016)

women kill themselves less, so men have to kill more women than women kill men to compensate.

Killing is a man's job.


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## Club Sandwich (Dec 2, 2016)

i've had to deal with 9 different suicides during my life so far. for the men involved, it was a long desperate struggle that they saw no other solution to. out reaches for help were either not attempted (to preserve some measure of pride) or completely ignored (by their friends and family because it was out of character or inappropriate for a man to ask for help with depression or anxiety or fear).

for the women, all of them had long bouts of depression and episodes of "mania" where they deeply regret their actions and their outreach was entertained for a while but eventually a combination of lack of access to resources (time/money to get therapy for example while working poor and full time) and lack of a social network to rely on (some gave into drugs and sex, others pushed away their friends by relying on them "too much") pushed them over the edge seemingly.

the outcomes of all nine were the same: self inflicted death. most of the men chose very violent methods nearly guaranteeing death (jumping off a bridge onto rocks, hanging by belt, hand grenade under the chin) while the women with one exception, chose more peaceful methods, usually painkillers and alcohol. one woman opted to kill her children and husband prior to killing herself. 

most of the women tended to leave more of a "papertrail" with posts on facebook or myspace, a diary, a file on a computer, a letter sent to someone or left near the body. men all left no such thing and often their possessions were either sold off or given away.

i'm not fit to comment one way or the other, but in my small sample, it's a combination of factors and the lack for judgement-free trustworthy social support that left them with little other option in their mind of what could be done to end their suffering.


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## Unseemly and Feral (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm sure this goes without saying but I think this is the most depressing thread here I've ever seen. 
I personally think men resort to suicide more because it's so hard to ask for help. Saying to somebody "I'm not strong right now, I'm weak and I need somebody else to help me" are 16 words that contradict everything we strive to be and appear as in front of people. When I ended up dropping an algebra course in college about halfway through I couldn't even bring myself to admit I needed a tutor.


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## waffle (Dec 4, 2016)

[QUOTE="ZeCommissar, post: 1910764, member: 10492" Is it because in the majority of societies want men to repress their feelings? Is it because men are more efficient at it? [/QUOTE]
Those are two of the big ones, but I think other important factors are that men are supposed to be providers and failure is not tolerated as a man.


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## OGRE (Dec 4, 2016)

Def. lack of support. Same with domestic abuse hotlines focusing towards women. 


Null said:


> That's only half true. Women attempt suicide more than men. Men commit suicide more than women.


Women may "attempt" "suicide" for attention purposes, men do it to kill themselves.


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## Dumpsterfire (Dec 4, 2016)

Women seem to be easier to get into the ER for psych if they're suicidal, their admissions tend to be "voluntary" (meaning they said okay instead of fighting with the doctor to just let them die) A lot of men won't even go to to ER for  psych unless  they're dragged there by police.  (saying that as someone who worked admissions for a hospital with an emergency psych ward)

Another thing is that there is a lot less stigma for women to be seeing a therapist and on antidepressants. A lot of women see it as normal and almost every female I know has been on an antidepressant at least once. Comparitively, I know very few men who have despite people and medical professionals telling  them they should. There's a lot of unfair bullshit around men asking for or accepting any kind of help and it's killing people. 

Another issue is medication compliance. Men don't seem to take their medication as regularly and sometimes just quit taking it because of that stigma I mentioned earlier. (also because men aren't used to daily medication taking like most women on birth control pills) 


tl;dr men aren't as compliant with medical professionals and sometimes won't get help because people suck.


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## ZeCommissar (Dec 4, 2016)

Unseemly and Feral said:


> I'm sure this goes without saying but I think this is the most depressing thread here I've ever seen.


Oh man are you in for a treat!


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## Damocles_Sword (Dec 5, 2016)

It's because men actually have to face reality. Men attempt suicide because because everything's been stripped from them, or they've been made to do some terrible shit, there's no support network, and are conditioned not to seek help even on the rare occasion when it's available, and even when a man does go in for psych help, the entire system is designed to treat women and so isn't very effective at treating men.


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## ZeCommissar (Dec 6, 2016)

So if we revised the system, started trying to change society to where we say to younger boys "It's okay to seek help it's not un-manly", and change the pysch system to where it helps men.

Do you think the suicide rate would lower? Would it be substantial? IS there a way to help lower it?


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## DNJACK (Dec 6, 2016)

you can just imagine you can change a culture like that. people trying to force young men to think its ok to seek help will divide men into pussies and hardcore men. guess how it will end...
yep,one part bullied people and another part people even more afraid to seek help.


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## Bassomatic (Dec 6, 2016)

DNJACK said:


> you can just imagine you can change a culture like that. people trying to force young men to think its ok to seek help will divide men into pussies and hardcore men. guess how it will end...
> yep,one part bullied people and another part people even more afraid to seek help.


This is already happening, and I think another hold up we have is one of the many issues with our health care and mental health is issues you run into if you get help. 

Sure it's illegal to fire people because of it, but it happens, I've seen it. Guy who was part of my old team at a very profitable well paying bank job (at a bank that anyone US based will know so no fly by night corp) got cut for no reason... around water cooler we all know his daughter had medical issues.

Start going to a shrink your employer will find out, again it's not legal but .... these things happen, and had I not seen it first hand I wouldn't buy it myself so, I don't at all get upset if someone feels my story was far fetched.

The other issue is if you are on the brink and get committed, lots of stuff haunts you. If I'm really upset and on the edge of a bridge and know stepping down I'll lose my career, guns, maybe vote etc... what's really saying step back down? 

With out being sexist just a simple statistic, men have more important jobs over all, so the risk of loss of earnings is a lot more. I've never done the research, but there are some loop holes where those whom take their life can have people collect. This gets into a grey area, morally but if you take the saving lives is most important. Someone who's gonna lose the house ashamed and knows he can't provide, won't feel the urge to get a check out of his ending.


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## Mariposa Electrique (Dec 7, 2016)

DNJACK said:


> you can just imagine you can change a culture like that. people trying to force young men to think its ok to seek help will divide men into pussies and hardcore men. guess how it will end...
> yep,one part bullied people and another part people even more afraid to seek help.


The other part dying to put on a skirt (and no, I am not being sarcastic)


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## DNJACK (Dec 7, 2016)

*kilt, and its manly as fuck


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## MW 002 (Dec 25, 2016)

Men tend to go with more lethal methods (firearms, jumping in front of a train, jumping off tall buildings) while women on the other hand usually go for methods perceived as "painless" such as drug overdose (even though dying from an overdose is actually a rather agonizing way to die- you're more likely to drown in your own vomit than to simply doze off).


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## Brandobaris (Dec 26, 2016)

ZeCommissar said:


> Do you think the suicide rate would lower? Would it be substantial? IS there a way to help lower it?



I don't see how, despite what the media likes to push, it's becoming more of a womans world all the time (At least in the Western World).  Education is tailored to their needs, they are the bigger consumers, so the market has adjusted to cater to them more.  Modern Social Media and the iPhone has now made networking a snap, something they are generally more inclined to.

I've heard stories of workplaces completely turned upside down, simply because a man was being autistic around a woman and she went to HR to tell them to just have a quiet talk with him.  HR decided the best idea would be to shut the whole place down and got investigators out and combed chat logs for weeks and got interviews.  The place turned from a happy workplace to the gulag in the span of a few weeks.

Men are in this difficult position, according to studies women still generally want a man more successful than them, and yet women are earning more and getting more prominent positions all the time.  Men are told they should be more emotional and open with their feelings, and then mocked for it, or seen as weak.  They are told they should be a stay at home Dad, and yet people smirk and roll their eyes at the Dad with a Pram and a baby harness walking around.

What is the role model for men?  Who do men have to look up to for the ideal?  All the old ideals are considered dead or offensive.  It's like a societal limbo.


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## HG 400 (Dec 27, 2016)

Brandobaris said:


> I don't see how, despite what the media likes to push, it's becoming more of a womans world all the time (At least in the Western World).  Education is tailored to their needs, they are the bigger consumers, so the market has adjusted to cater to them more.  Modern Social Media and the iPhone has now made networking a snap, something they are generally more inclined to.
> 
> I've heard stories of workplaces completely turned upside down, simply because a man was being autistic around a woman and she went to HR to tell them to just have a quiet talk with him.  HR decided the best idea would be to shut the whole place down and got investigators out and combed chat logs for weeks and got interviews.  The place turned from a happy workplace to the gulag in the span of a few weeks.
> 
> ...



Why did this post get so many negative ratings???


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## DNJACK (Dec 27, 2016)

Clinton 2016


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## WW 635 (Dec 27, 2016)

Brandobaris said:


> What is the role model for men?  Who do men have to look up to for the ideal?


Donald Trump is the epitome of manliness.


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## ZeCommissar (Jan 3, 2017)

Alright lets shift the topic a bit and see what some other reasons are.

With the amount of incels/Nice Guys that seem to be everywhere (or at least more prominent with the internet) do you think that has a factor in it?

Actually lets get away from cancer, there are men I have interacted with, and known that are horrible with women while not holding bitter/resentful views towards women. Many people hate the thought of dying alone/unloved, which if someone is cornered into the belief that is going to happen to them, why not end it now?

I read recently that divorces cause more severe affects to men than women, the whole "loss of masculinity" thing, and women file for divorce more often than men.

Also what about nations like China with a huge disparity where there are more younger men than women? (It should be obvious why China has this phenomenon). What is going to happen to the next Chinese generation?


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## Holdek (Jan 3, 2017)

Brandobaris said:


> I've heard stories of workplaces completely turned upside down, simply because a man was being autistic around a woman and she went to HR to tell them to just have a quiet talk with him. HR decided the best idea would be to shut the whole place down and got investigators out and combed chat logs for weeks and got interviews. The place turned from a happy workplace to the gulag in the span of a few weeks.


You've "heard stories?"


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## Bassomatic (Jan 3, 2017)

ZeCommissar said:


> Alright lets shift the topic a bit and see what some other reasons are.
> 
> With the amount of incels/Nice Guys that seem to be everywhere (or at least more prominent with the internet) do you think that has a factor in it?
> 
> ...


Well the incel thing is kinda a mis understood group, it's always been a thing always will be, the net let these people group up and the loudest (most insane) voices took over. So we now have a skewed image of the single people in the west world, in fact going to when I was in high school, incel men were not viewed as a problem, society and my peers all feared the girls. 

It's scientifically proven losing a loved one via split up, death etc, is harder than being single as well as can cause more long term damage and depression. So ya it's better to not have loved than loved and lost, medically speaking. These guys are more at risk. With my strange hobby of following incels, I've found they all share an trait of being incredibly selfish. Past an ego, just a me me me mind set. They are owed that perfect 10 virgin woman fuck mommy. They are too good to off themselves. 

In regards to normal people whom fear death alone, the reason not ending it is two fold, hope and not becoming a self fulling promise. If you said I have no shot at a family when really it's a lottery winners chance, you can keep playing the lotto till nature does it's thing, as we all do die. Or, you can embrace the fear by self destruction. If you were not wanting to die alone, why would you die alone sooner? When you might not later?

Now, with places like China... that's where it gets scary, there's one thing that happens through out history with a big gap like that, and I'll tell you it's next door countries won't like to hear it. It's war. 20+ million men who couldn't get a family? Going back to Greek times, that means draft. I hope somehow this doesn't pan out.


----------



## ZeCommissar (Jan 4, 2017)

Bassomatic said:


> Now, with places like China... that's where it gets scary, there's one thing that happens through out history with a big gap like that, and I'll tell you it's next door countries won't like to hear it. It's war. 20+ million men who couldn't get a family? Going back to Greek times, that means draft. I hope somehow this doesn't pan out.



Would a higher rate of suicide happen in China due to the gender gap? It's one thing to be a lonely fuck because you are toxic or unlucky, compared to being a lonely fuck because your country literally aborted too many girls and you either have to move to a different country, or have a woman immigrate. Prostitution is already rising, and I expect this to cause a rise in rapes as well in China.

So are men just naturally inclined to feel a heavier burden of failure, therefore taking their own life? Do women have it better and the MRAs are right? While I have my own opinions on the matter I wonder if this a natural or societal phenomenon.....or both?

I believe a large exodus of Chinese men will happen at around 2025-2030.


----------



## Male (Jan 4, 2017)

Because men are strong enough to get the cap off


----------



## Jason Genova (Jan 5, 2017)

Brandobaris said:


> What is the role model for men?  Who do men have to look up to for the ideal?



they're everywhere bro you're just not looking worth a fuck



























Spoiler













Spoiler


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## ULTIMATEPRIMETIME (Jan 5, 2017)

because if men fuck up there's nowhere for them to go. if a woman fucks up she just marrys a guy and uses his money, which may have worked 60 yrs ago but now that women are saturating the job market and jobs are being moved overseas, one income cant support an entire household anymore unless u work in oil or IT.


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## fried_kooch (Jan 5, 2017)

it's because most men are beta males


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## keksz (Jan 5, 2017)

Just think about it: if a woman wants to feel better about herself she just puts on a slutty dress, walks to the nearest bar and makes it easy on some guy. If she likes him she keeps him, if she doesn't he's out of his life first thing in the morning. Or she makes a booty call to an ex or fuck buddy. What does a man do when he wants to feel good about himself? If you're saying "well he does the same thing" then chances are you're either very lucky in life or :autism:

I've chosen an in-your-face example and some ladies will say they wouldn't feel good by fucking the first guy they meet. The reasoning though, is that they can, no matter how ugly or depressed there will always be a Nice Guy willing to sacrifice everything to be in the good graces of a being with a natural pair of tits. This example easily translates to other parts of life: a woman can easily post a boo-hoo status on Facebook and get a thousand of asspatters and girlfriends to stand up for her no matter how much of a dipshit she is or isn't. I see it almost every time I log in to Facebook and I'm not even joking: "I was feeling bad but then I ate and I'm feeling better". If you think a man can just do the same without being judged as feminine, weak or emo then you're either very lucky in your circle of friendships or :autism:


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## Vitriol (Jan 5, 2017)

fried_kooch said:


> it's because most men are beta males



Im assuming this is irony. Try and keep the shitposting to ic.



keksz said:


> Just think about it: if a woman wants to feel better about herself she just puts on a slutty dress, walks to the nearest bar and makes it easy on some guy. If she likes him she keeps him, if she doesn't he's out of his life first thing in the morning. Or she makes a booty call to an ex or fuck buddy. What does a man do when he wants to feel good about himself? If you're saying "well he does the same thing" then chances are you're either very lucky in life or :autism:
> 
> I've chosen an in-your-face example and some ladies will say they wouldn't feel good by fucking the first guy they meet. The reasoning though, is that they can, no matter how ugly or depressed there will always be a Nice Guy willing to sacrifice everything to be in the good graces of a being with a natural pair of tits. This example easily translates to other parts of life: a woman can easily post a boo-hoo status on Facebook and get a thousand of asspatters and girlfriends to stand up for her no matter how much of a dipshit she is or isn't. I see it almost every time I log in to Facebook and I'm not even joking: "I was feeling bad but then I ate and I'm feeling better". If you think a man can just do the same without being judged as feminine, weak or emo then you're either very lucky in your circle of friendships or :autism:


This is straight out of the old sluthate boards. Is it a pasta?


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## keksz (Jan 5, 2017)

No, did you take offense to that? I'm not saying women can't or shouldn't slut themselves, you're reading into it. I'm just saying that if someone is feeling down and lonely it's 50x easier to get a good fuck or asspats as a woman than a man - and I'm not making any judgment of valor on top of it so lol calm down.


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## Vitriol (Jan 6, 2017)

keksz said:


> No, did you take offense to that? I'm not saying women can't or shouldn't slut themselves, you're reading into it. I'm just saying that if someone is feeling down and lonely it's 50x easier to get a good fuck or asspats as a woman than a man - and I'm not making any judgment of valor on top of it so lol calm down.


Offence? No, i genuinely thought it was a loveshy pasta. You express yourself very poorly.

You are also dead wrong when someone hits 30 it definately reverses. What you are talking about is true only of young attractive 20 somethings imo. Thats why your post reads like loveshy whining.

Also if you dont quote my post i dont get any notification you posted.


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## Twinkle2017 (Jan 6, 2017)

Sorry for being autistic but what's the meaning of PineTar?


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## Vitriol (Jan 6, 2017)

Twinkle2017 said:


> Sorry for being autistic but what's the meaning of PineTar?


Wordfilter for rape- he was a creepy former user.


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## Twinkle2017 (Jan 6, 2017)

Vitriol said:


> Wordfilter for rape- he was a creepy former user.



Oh I see. Thanks!


----------



## Darndirty (Jan 6, 2017)

Men have much more social pressure to live up to standards and to be successful. Your manhood is doubted if you aren't, rich enough, tough enough to get ahead. Men are also more prone to violence, even if said violence is to themselves. Just my quick two cents.


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## Twinkle2017 (Jan 6, 2017)

Also, I notice this to be more prevalent among autistic males. Autistic people are very sensitive - to sound, light and touch. It makes it harder for them to search for relationships - like I have met someone who would not even want to hug his future romantic partner.  There is this psychology today  article which explains it. 

Maybe his parents will tolerate it, but I don't think most NT girls will tolerate having such boyfriend who is sensitive to even a hug.


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## BT 075 (Jan 6, 2017)

More men tend to leave their families the
n women, too. But for a mother to walk out on her responsibilities entirely, is comparatively less common. So I would say, a lot of the women who _attempt_ suicide, don't _really_ wanna die. They don't really want to leave their families behind. I know I'm generalizing here, but the whole "fuck it, I'm out" attitude is something I see less in women. They might talk more, analyze more, think about the effects more, and decide not to go through with it even when depressed. Depression would result by self-neglect, self-abuse, but not by something drastic and impulsive like blowing your brains out.

There are more men who blow their brains out or jump in front of a train, and more women who overdose on painkillers or cut themselves. It seems like a lack of decisiveness, because I can't bring myself to blame it on them being pussies, seeing as though they birth babies and shit which is pretty brutal. Maybe men want to die, and women want to be noticed. The whole "cry for help" thing is more feminine... it's a gender role\perception thing; a man does not cry for help, he wants you to cry when help is no longer an option and feel like shit for not offering any.


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## TiggerNits (Jan 7, 2017)

Null said:


> That's only half true. Women attempt suicide more than men. Men commit suicide more than women.




So essentially, men just do it right the first time


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## DuckSucker (Jan 7, 2017)

Vitriol said:


> Offence? No, i genuinely thought it was a loveshy pasta. You express yourself very poorly.
> 
> You are also dead wrong when someone hits 30 it definately reverses. What you are talking about is true only of young attractive 20 somethings imo. Thats why your post reads like loveshy whining.
> 
> Also if you dont quote my post i dont get any notification you posted.



I dont understand why this thread exists because it's really only going to facilitate this type of MRA "No way my gender totally has it worse!" discussion, but the whole "once they hit 30!" is a bunch of Red Pill "The Wall" bullshit, which is about as bad as the whiny loveshy MRA garbage.

I stand by my old bullshit post earlier that I think as close as you can get to it is that men are the "disposable" gender and that's not really in the sense of MRA or red pill or love shy bullshit, it's biological. Theyre born at like a 1.5 rate compared to women, even biologically more men were born because they had a higher mortality, right? And women carry children to term for 9 months so biologically theyre more important.


----------



## Vitriol (Jan 7, 2017)

DuckSucker said:


> I dont understand why this thread exists because it's really only going to facilitate this type of MRA "No way my gender totally has it worse!" discussion, but the whole "once they hit 30!" is a bunch of Red Pill "The Wall" bullshit, which is about as bad as the whiny loveshy MRA garbage.
> 
> I stand by my old bullshit post earlier that I think as close as you can get to it is that men are the "disposable" gender and that's not really in the sense of MRA or red pill or love shy bullshit, it's biological. Theyre born at like a 1.5 rate compared to women, even biologically more men were born because they had a higher mortality, right? And women carry children to term for 9 months so biologically theyre more important.


Sex ratio to humans at birth is essentially 1:1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

Im not saying that women cant walk into a bar and pick up men past thirty, just that i think its easier for men of the same age to do it.  By 30 most guys have a stable life and steady work and most women who want to settle down and have children will be aware they only really have roughly  a decade left, which isnt all that long. 

Men have a markedly higher suicide rate than women, i am not understanding why you dont think this is worth commenting on.


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## DuckSucker (Jan 7, 2017)

Vitriol said:


> Sex ratio to humans at birth is essentially 1:1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio
> 
> Im not saying that women cant walk into a bar and pick up men past thirty, just that i think its easier for men of the same age to do it.  By 30 most guys have a stable life and steady work and most women who want to settle down and have children will be aware they only really have roughly  a decade left, which isnt all that long.
> 
> Men have a markedly higher suicide rate than women, i am not understanding why you dont think this is worth commenting on.



In my head every successful suicide is a suicide attempt taken to completion. For example out of 100 men and 100 women you have 37 women attempt suicide and 17 succeed and then 25 men attempt suicide and 20 of them succeed the statistics would say something like, "men have a markedly higher rate of suicide!" 

If you want to talk about why so and so has a higher rate of suicide then the answer is as simple as "x group chooses a more lethal method". But if one group is ATTEMPTING suicide more often, not necessarily to completion, then you absolutely kind of have to break it down into a "who has it worse" argument, what's really going on? If you want to avoid that discussion, then the discussion basically will end at the simple answer that one group is just statistically more impulsive and less inclined towards self preservation, which is shown in men especially those who grow up looking at role models where the greatest thing you can be is a hero and the greatest thing you can do is stoically sacrifice your life, or something of yourself, so that others can live a better life.

Basically Im trying to say that it's not necessarily not worth commenting on, but that as a discussion, it's naturally going to slide towards whiny MRA, meninist style posting about "which gender has it worse".


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## punks is hippies (Jan 7, 2017)

I think part of it is that there's more variation in men by design. Males are where nature plays around to see what works; men are much more likely to be geniuses, but also much more likely to be crazy or completely nonfunctioning. Women are the "predictable" gender--less geniuses, and also less tards. Neither one is "better," that's just how it is.


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## Windows10 (Jan 10, 2017)

Sometimes I think it has to do with men being told to bottle everything up or they're "useless" or "too emotionally unstable".
It's hard enough to get help for depression and suicidal thoughts without a bunch of people ridiculing you for seeking help, or when you do seek help, to not be taken seriously.


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## Batman VS Tony Danza (Jan 10, 2017)

It's one thing to want to die but it's another to try to go through with it. Anger is often the thing that will link the two together. Men are more in touch with anger and aggression and how to use it. We use it to overcome fear all the time so it makes sense that a guy would be more likely to get himself worked up enough to pull the trigger.


----------



## Zorin (ASK ME ABOUT CHILD RAPE) (Jan 12, 2017)

ZeCommissar said:


> Most people know that men commit suicide more than women. Some people are ignorant and assume that since depression and self harm are higher in women, then they must commit more suicide as well.
> 
> This trend is seen across the entire world across almost every culture.
> 
> Why are men more likely to commit suicide? Is it because in the majority of societies want men to repress their feelings? Is it because men are more efficient at it? What are the thoughts of kiwis?


Hard to say, but I believe that men by biology tend to generally be bigger 'risk takers' than women in general, which is probably the same reason that more men likely die in bar-room brawls than women. If you want a purely biological explanation, testosterone and estrogen rates likely play a role.

From a more evolutionary perspective, this seems to be a consistent theme not just in humans but animals as well; seems that men are more biologically hardwired to be 'protectors' against external threats to the 'tribe', while women are more hardwired to 'govern' the tribe and maintain the internal 'order'.

In lions for example, the female lions do most of the hunting and providing food for the lion pride, while the males are generally the ones who fight and defend the pride from attacking animals.



Vitriol said:


> Sex ratio to humans at birth is essentially 1:1.
> Im not saying that women cant walk into a bar and pick up men past thirty, just that i think its easier for men of the same age to do it.  By 30 most guys have a stable life and steady work and most women who want to settle down and have children will be aware they only really have roughly  a decade left, which isnt all that long.


How myopic. Generally men who are natural with women aren't that way because of 'stable life or work', it's usually more about them having a sense of independence and a 'mission in life' rather than just being a boring drone.

This is why the lead singer of a local rock band living out of a studio apartment can aquire more 'poon' than a boring banker or programmer making $80,000 a year, who often merely has to settle for a trophy wife who fantasizes about Usher when making love to him.



> Men have a markedly higher suicide rate than women, i am not understanding why you dont think this is worth commenting on.


Could be perhaps that if a man is weak enough to take his life then he deserves a bit of scorn.

That and from a purely biological perspective, men are the more expendable sex - let's say a tribe of 20 men and 20 women was at war with another tribe; if 19 men were killed, the remaining man could still repopulate with the 20 women, but if 19 women were killed, the remaining men couldn't all repopulate as quickly with the same woman.

---

As far as 'male suicide', I suppose I can't be bothered to care too much about some emo kid taking his life because he can't get a girlfriend in HS when there are men who survived and escaped North Korean gulags who never took their life.

If anything this is just an example of "men's rights" or whatever morphing into the equivalent of 3rd wave feminism, where instead of discussing legitimate issues like genital mutilation in the 3rd world, they have nothing better to talk about than 'internet trolls on Twitter'.


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## Vitriol (Jan 13, 2017)

Zorin said:


> Generally men who are natural with women aren't that way because of 'stable life or work', it's usually more about them having a sense of independence and a 'mission in life' rather than just being a boring drone.


my point was more generally that if one has a stable life with a reasonable living standard it is easier to attract a partner. And that in one's early twenties that is quite rare, in one's thirties it is more common.



Zorin said:


> This is why the lead singer of a local rock band living out of a studio apartment can aquire more 'poon' than a boring banker or programmer making $80,000 a year, *who often merely has to settle for a trophy wife who fantasizes about Usher when making love to him*.


Compare the two in their thirties when the banker or whatever is likely to have that salary and the 'singer' has aged and washed up and i guarantee the banker or whatever will have an easier time dating, which was my initial point.


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## Zorin (ASK ME ABOUT CHILD RAPE) (Jan 13, 2017)

Vitriol said:


> my point was more generally that if one has a stable life with a reasonable living standard it is easier to attract a partner. And that in one's early twenties that is quite rare, in one's thirties it is more common.
> 
> 
> Compare the two in their thirties when the banker or whatever is likely to have that salary and the 'singer' has aged and washed up and i guarantee the banker or whatever will have an easier time dating, which was my initial point.


True, but there's a difference between being a "sugar daddy" and being a 'natural', the motives behind the dating partnership are quite different anyway. One's based more on real attraction; the other more on pure pragmatics.


----------



## Pandinus Imperator (Jan 15, 2017)

punks is hippies said:


> I think part of it is that there's more variation in men by design. Males are where nature plays around to see what works; men are much more likely to be geniuses, but also much more likely to be crazy or completely nonfunctioning. Women are the "predictable" gender--less geniuses, and also less tards. Neither one is "better," that's just how it is.


Females indeed tend to be the more stable sex in nature. And indeed our outliers on both extremes are more rare.

I think it's a simple matter of biology that having higher testosterone levels has the side effect of making males more prone to acting foolishly and impulsively. After all, "PMSing" is actually caused by a short-lived spike in testosterone that occurs during the menstrual cycle. With that in mind, it's_ rather concerning _to think that the other sex has higher levels of testosterone than that at all times.

With that being said, the same hormone differences that make males more likely to commit crimes probably is what makes them more likely to give into the impulse of offing themselves.


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## Medicated (Feb 6, 2018)

Sperglord Dante said:


> Women are under-reinforced beams. They show their cracks before falling apart .They're diagnosed with depression, they post suicide notes on social media, they try to OD on sleeping pills. That's how people notice something is wrong with them, and that's how they get help.
> 
> Men are over-reinforced beams. They just keep on piling and piling stress without showing any exterior signs, until one day they blow apart.
> 
> Most men are taught not to show weakness in front of others since they're young. It has its merits but it also has it's obvious downfalls.



I agree with most of this. But, I knew a guy who was raised in an all-girl household, the dad wasn't around so he acted very feminine, talked about his feelings and such.  And despite all that, he told me he felt it was his responsibility to take care of his mother and sisters over himself.  If he saw his mom or sisters visibly upset it made him want to try harder to help them. He said he didn't know why, he just felt like it was the right thing to do.

So perhaps society and biology plays a role?  Since in nature, if a small population was to lose males it's not a big deal, but if they lose the women, it could doom them.


----------



## ICametoLurk (Feb 6, 2018)

It's gonna be a lot higher when trannies get older.


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## Medicated (Feb 6, 2018)

ICametoLurk said:


> It's gonna be a lot higher when trannies get older.



_Men have a shockingly high rate of death by suicide compared with women. Across all countries reporting these data (except China and India) males show a suicide rate that is 3.0 to 7.5 times that of women.[10] In Canada, the male suicide rate is about three times that of women.[11]_

_The silence surrounding suicide among men is also striking and warrants comment. First, there appears to be an overall lack of public awareness regarding the high rates of suicide among men, especially relative to other more highly publicized threats to men’s health, such as HIV/AIDS, that account for far fewer premature deaths among males each year (e.g., in 2005 45 male deaths were attributed to AIDS in Canada in contrast to 2857 male deaths from suicide).[4,5]

Second, while accumulating empirical evidence confirms that men in Western nations consistently die by suicide at higher rates than women[6,7] (with the pattern reversed for nonfatal suicidal behaviors), surprisingly few explanatory frameworks have been developed to account for this persistent pattern.

Third, few preventive efforts or policies specifically targeting male suicide have been developed or evaluated, which further contributes to its lack of visibility as a major public health problem. When gender is addressed it is often treated as a static demographic variable as opposed to a culturally mediated social construction that intersects with other diversity markers such as race, sexual orientation, and age in highly complex ways.[8,9]_

_One line of investigation has focused on suicide methods.[6] A well-established finding is that men are more likely to use suicide methods of high lethality, methods with increased risk of death. For example, a recent pan-European study found that the highly lethal methods of hanging and firearms were more likely to be used by men. Sixty-two percent of males, versus 40% of females, used hanging or firearms in their suicidal actions.[19]

Other investigators have confirmed that compared with suicidal women who use firearms to shoot themselves in the body, men are more apt to shoot themselves in the head, increasing the likelihood of death.[20]

A study of suicide attempts in older men and women showed that men were more intent upon dying and moved more quickly and decisively from considering suicide to acting upon the suicidal ideation. The study noted, “Our findings suggest that factors responsible for the increased suicide rate in older men operate largely during the suicidal crisis itself: once a depressed older man develops serious suicidal intent, he tends to realize it with little hesitation.”[26] The reasons men move in this unhesitating way to suicidal behavior remain to be determined.

Another line of research would examine the precipitating and predisposing factors that distinguish male suicide and account for the substantial gender disparity in suicide mortality.[38] Why do men use more lethal methods, why do they move with less hesitation from thinking about suicide to implementing it, and why are they more reluctant to seek help in dealing with the stressors that contribute to suicide?

http://www.bcmj.org/articles/silent-epidemic-male-suicide_


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## DNJACK (Feb 6, 2018)

Medicated said:


> I agree with most of this. But, I knew a guy who was raised in an all-girl household, the dad wasn't around so he acted very feminine, talked about his feelings and such.  And despite all that, he told me he felt it was his responsibility to take care of his mother and sisters over himself.  If he saw his mom or sisters visibly upset it made him want to try harder to help them. He said he didn't know why, he just felt like it was the right thing to do.
> 
> So perhaps society and biology plays a role?  Since in nature, if a small population was to lose males it's not a big deal, but if they lose the women, it could doom them.


but without men who is going to take the trash out?


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## carltondanks (Feb 6, 2018)

vertexwindi said:


> Is there anything men can't do better than women?


prostitution


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## Erwin Blackthorn (Feb 6, 2018)

To take the words from the late Patrice O' Neal "It's the power of pussy, baby."

Imagine being a useless human being with no goals, no money, no means of effort, and no reason to live. Now imagine you're that but you're an attractive woman. I think it's hard for a woman to commit suicide when their hands busy in a man's wallet, don't you?


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## vertexwindi (Feb 7, 2018)

carltondanks said:


> prostitution


Then why most prostitutes need a pimp? Explain that, wise guy.


----------



## carltondanks (Feb 7, 2018)

vertexwindi said:


> Then why most prostitutes need a pimp? Explain that, wise guy.


the pimp hand hits their reset button and they make more money from doing more work


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## WW 635 (Feb 7, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> but without men who is going to take the trash out?


And fix stuff sobs the house, lift heavy boxes, reach the top shelf...


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## Sylvie Paula Paula (Feb 7, 2018)

Something something "toxic masculinity" "male socialization". Men are taught at a very young age that it's MANLY not to talk about your feelings, and just let them build up. It's "womanly" to have an emotion such as sadness or fear; the only negative emotion you can have is anger. Of course, some men cannot really control their emotions, and get reprimanded for it their whole lives. If a guy has experienced trauma of any kind, it's considered unrealistic unless he was a cop or was in the army. 

There's also the fact that if a man is raped, he's more likely to either a) not be believed or b) be congratulated (if it's female-on-male rape); even if it's something like CSA. I think of all the cases where middle schoolers are coerced into sex by their older teachers, teacher gets pregnant, shit hits the fan, and now the kid's considered a fucking Chad by both his peers and adult men who are virgins well into their 40s. There's also the slim possibility of someone accusing you of rape, like what Mattress Girl did. She was able to ruin that young man's life for political clout, and even when it was proven to be fake she was still hailed as a hero. While a normal person would go "hey, that's fucked up", modern feminists took it and ran with it.


----------



## heathercho (Feb 7, 2018)

Erwin Blackthorn said:


> To take the words from the late Patrice O' Neal "It's the power of pussy, baby."
> 
> Imagine being a useless human being with no goals, no money, no means of effort, and no reason to live. Now imagine you're that but you're an attractive woman. I think it's hard for a woman to commit suicide when their hands busy in a man's wallet, don't you?



Men need to find the joy in shopping. 
But I feel sad for you if the only women who want you are ones that want your money.


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## DNJACK (Feb 7, 2018)

Sylvie Paula Paula said:


> Something something "toxic masculinity" "male socialization". Men are taught at a very young age that it's MANLY not to talk about your feelings, and just let them build up. It's "womanly" to have an emotion such as sadness or fear; the only negative emotion you can have is anger. Of course, some men cannot really control their emotions, and get reprimanded for it their whole lives. If a guy has experienced trauma of any kind, it's considered unrealistic unless he was a cop or was in the army.
> 
> There's also the fact that if a man is raped, he's more likely to either a) not be believed or b) be congratulated (if it's female-on-male rape); even if it's something like CSA. I think of all the cases where middle schoolers are coerced into sex by their older teachers, teacher gets pregnant, shit hits the fan, and now the kid's considered a fucking Chad by both his peers and adult men who are virgins well into their 40s. There's also the slim possibility of someone accusing you of rape, like what Mattress Girl did. She was able to ruin that young man's life for political clout, and even when it was proven to be fake she was still hailed as a hero. While a normal person would go "hey, that's fucked up", modern feminists took it and ran with it.


I dont allow my women to be sad or afraid either.


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## Slowboat to China (Feb 7, 2018)

Don't men still make up a majority of the armed forces? Military service, especially in some of the wars we've had in the 20th and early 21st centuries, can really fuck you up. And they're less likely to elicit sympathy from others who see them suffering; a crying woman is pitiable, a crying man is weak. (Or a soyboy, but that's another discussion entirely.)


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## WW 635 (Feb 7, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> I dont allow my women to be sad or afraid either.


Women? Plural?


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## DNJACK (Feb 7, 2018)

Cricket said:


> Women? Plural?


I'm including our thai ladybois


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## WW 635 (Feb 7, 2018)

DNJACK said:


> I'm including our thai ladybois


I love those ladybois


----------



## Secret Asshole (Feb 8, 2018)

I know you are going to hate me but gender roles. Men typically take on harder, higher stress occupations. Despite 'advances' in the feminist movement, gender roles still hold that men be the provider. Every time unemployment increases, you have a statistically significant increase in suicides and deaths.

Men are also not cottled, treated more harshly than their female colleagues. Men have also been traditionally less likely to seek psychological help for depression. As others have said, men aren't afraid of making a mess so they choose more lethal methods than women.

Men also typically occupy more high stress positions than women, which can lead to overwhelming anxiety and depression as theu are just expected to deal with it.

There's also the issue of poor mental health services and a lack of insurance for decent therapy and psychiatrists. As others have said as well, there's this idea among proud men of 'being a man', sucessful, strong, etc. When they fail to live up to these high expectations it can result in depression. And they you get made fun of for it. As a result most men just don't get help.

Same with men who are stuck in a rut and feel completely powerless over their lives and suicide is one way to take control. A lot of NEETs do this.

There's also massive substance abuse as self medicating, especially in poor areas where there are no jobs.

Then there are abusive relationships, emotional and otherwise. My mom used to work for a company in the 1970s (Also she actually experienced a pay gap because she was flat out told she was making less for the same job because she was a woman) and this guy would come in with bruises because his wife beat him with a pan and he didn't hit women. He later killed himself. 

It's the same thing that men have almost identical rates of eating disorders as women but nobody talks about it because that's  it something men do. 

So basically, it is actually because of gender roles.


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## Dolphin Lundgren (Feb 8, 2018)

Women have a bigger support for their issues. Men however are silenced and told to shut up. Men have more stress in situations, especially if they're the main bread winners but aren't encouraged to talk about their problems. 

That's how it seems to me.


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## Slap47 (Feb 8, 2018)

Men are told they need to have a purpose and when you strip that away they start killing themselves. Part of why soldiers kill themselves. They're told that they're soldiers and that they have a duty to protect. Their identity and purpose is linked to their job and when they lose that job they've sometimes lost everything. Not to downplay the brutality of war and stress of killing though. It's the same case with most professions.


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## Erwin Blackthorn (Feb 13, 2018)

Apoth42 said:


> Men are told they need to have a purpose and when you strip that away they start killing themselves. Part of why soldiers kill themselves. They're told that they're soldiers and that they have a duty to protect. Their identity and purpose is linked to their job and when they lose that job they've sometimes lost everything. Not to downplay the brutality of war and stress of killing though. It's the same case with most professions.



That's actually a very interesting take on military suicides. Usually it's the idea that they have guilt or their PTSD gets them to the point of ending it all, and I haven't really thought of the idea of purpose. But it makes sense.

People who get comfortable and used to a certain way of living, forced into a sudden change of environment, and expected to handle their drop from the "high life". Very similar to if a celebrity suddenly became a McDonald's worker over night and nobody knew who they were.

I did find an interesting thing though. So it seems military personnel are less likely to get divorced than the civilian population (US statistics), while being 2x more likely to commit suicide. 

Could it be that they have the option to get shot at, away from the wife, and take it; then when they return, and get nagged at by the wife, they shoot themselves with all of that practice?


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## carltondanks (Feb 15, 2018)

while you're all discussing this seriously, i'm here pissing myself laughing thinking about how storm troopers can't commit suicide because they always miss


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## Sovietmongler (Feb 16, 2018)

For the TL;DR version of this thread.

Toxic Masculinity. 

Done and brushed.


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## carltondanks (Feb 17, 2018)

Sovietmongler said:


> For the TL;DR version of this thread.
> 
> Toxic Masculinity.
> 
> Done and brushed.


i feel like there's some truth to this


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## AnOminous (Feb 17, 2018)

Women are so dumb they can't even kill themselves.


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## Orkeosaurus (Feb 28, 2018)

Men are more firm in their thinking. If they're in such a downward spiral they might consider suicide. They identify whatever they think is important in life like money, work or family with their existence. Women are more capable of bouncing back from a situation in almost every way. Women are quite often mentally ill, it's just not usually in a violent way.


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## Medicated (Feb 28, 2018)

Apoth42 said:


> Men are told they need to have a purpose and when you strip that away they start killing themselves. Part of why soldiers kill themselves. They're told that they're soldiers and that they have a duty to protect. Their identity and purpose is linked to their job and when they lose that job they've sometimes lost everything. Not to downplay the brutality of war and stress of killing though. It's the same case with most professions.



A lot of people talk about "societal roles" and "learned behaviour" but I don't think it's all that.  A woman has been valued by society all the way back to the beginning.  Even today a businessman will hire a high priced escort, not even to have sex with, but sit in a hotel room and tell them their problems.  When they could be paying for a psyche. Men will throw money at women they just watch play videogames.  Most men I'm sure would instinctively jump to protect a woman or child if they face imminent danger.  I think trying to force this sort of "gender equality" as if everyone is a worker ant is the wrong idea.  Women will always have an inherent value. It's like it's hardwired into peoples brains.

I've been thinking that in relation to suicide, men have no inherent value until they either achieve it themselves, or have it passed to them through some inheritance.  It's why you see so many men die when they lose their job or their family.  Without them, they are virtually considered useless to society.  And I don't think it's simply a societal pressure, but also an internal one.  Even if a man goes to a therapist, is he going to believe a line like "Okay, you lost everything that made you a successful man, being a breadwinner, being a father, and you've become a monetary drain on society, but you are still important as a human". 

Why would they believe that when everything around them, everything they know, tells them thats bullshit?  No one pays a man to play videogames like shit, no one pays a man to listen to their problems when its not their job position.  Even outside of suicide, how many men do you hear about suddenly dying of heart attacks after retiring.


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## NOT Sword Fighter Super (Feb 28, 2018)

ZeCommissar said:


> Most people know that men commit suicide more than women. Some people are ignorant and assume that since depression and self harm are higher in women, then they must commit more suicide as well.
> 
> This trend is seen across the entire world across almost every culture.
> 
> Why are men more likely to commit suicide? Is it because in the majority of societies want men to repress their feelings? Is it because men are more efficient at it? What are the thoughts of kiwis?



For the same reason men are more likely to commit a violent crime against another.  It's that testosterone.  Testosterone isn't looking for sympathy or trying to get attention.  Testosterone means business.

Testosterone isn't going to swallow a bunch of pills and wait for somebody to do something about it.  Testosterone is going to take that lead pill right to the dome.


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## yukujiab (Mar 3, 2018)

I think its because men are more aggressive in their thoughts and behaviour.  Somewhere I read that the ATTEMPTS of suicide is the same, but men are 75% more likely to go through with it. They generally are quicker at making decisions than women. When men go shopping, 99% of the time they know what they want and they will walk out in 10-15 minutes max. If a man makes a decision to kill himself, he is more likely to be successful than a woman because he will have the guts to see it through. 

Teaching men not to be aggressive or instinctive isnt going to help. We need to help men CHANNEL that aggression into something productive.  Sports for example. We need to give them goals and aspirations. A lot of these suicides and school shootings are done by men who have no goals ambitions or purpose in life. Completely disorientated


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## AnOminous (Mar 3, 2018)

Men are a lot better at violence, so when we decide to kill ourselves, we choose methods, like blowing our own heads off with a shotgun, that are much more successful at ending our lives than the bullshit methods women choose, which often involve swallowing a bunch of pills that wouldn't kill a hamster.


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## Wesley Willis (Mar 3, 2018)

Todesfurcht said:


> *I have easily broken it down into three things:*
> 1. There are more men in the population




The population is 51% female.


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## Daughter of Cernunnos (Mar 3, 2018)

Because most men do not have the privilege of having gorgeous tradthots with ladycock run their household.


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## vertexwindi (Mar 4, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> Men are a lot better at violence, so when we decide to kill ourselves, we choose methods, like blowing our own heads off with a shotgun, that are much more successful at ending our lives than the bullshit methods women choose, which often involve swallowing a bunch of pills that wouldn't kill a hamster.


Men are just better at everything, even female sports. A man even won "woman of the year" once!


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## ES 148 (Mar 4, 2018)

vertexwindi said:


> Men are just better at everything, even female sports. A man even won "woman of the year" once!


They're not better at not committing suicide under pressure, I guess 


Basically in part it's because men have this whole bullshit honor thing going on in a lot of societies. It's often thought of as being better to kill yourself than be worthless or whatever, because that's the manly thing to do instead of the stupid thing to do.


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## Sloan Ward (Mar 6, 2018)

DuskEngine said:


> The rate of _attempted_ suicide is commensurately higher among women.
> 
> Anyway, men are just globally better at violence, it seems. It stands to reason that this includes violence against themselves.



That doesn't follow logically. If women "attempt" suicide more, they should be showing up more as suicide victims. 



Hyperion said:


> Because women talk too much.



That's because women _unwind _by talking, as opposed to men who unwind by getting the hell away from everything and relaxing. 








vertexwindi said:


> Is there anything men can't do better than women?



Filling the population with assholes.



ZeCommissar said:


> I will have to do more research on that though when I feel like it tho.



Story of my _life.



Todesfurcht said:



			1. There are more men in the population
2. High expectations from peers, family, and society
3. Men choose more lethal methods
		
Click to expand...

_
1. The population's about even actually.
2. Higher than women's, certainly. Doesn't explain why our natural ruggedness fails to keep us from pussying out of life.
3. Because we want it to be quick. Women want to suffer during suicide and they want someone to _know _they suffered.

---------

My opinion is this: men exist in a world that looks at them as disposable units; how could you _not _wanna kill yourself deep down? I don't care _who _you are.


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## Slap47 (Mar 6, 2018)

AnOminous said:


> Men are a lot better at violence, so when we decide to kill ourselves, we choose methods, like blowing our own heads off with a shotgun, that are much more successful at ending our lives than the bullshit methods women choose, which often involve swallowing a bunch of pills that wouldn't kill a hamster.



Men tend to use guns and bridges instead of pills and ropes so that makes sense.


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## GreenJacket (Mar 7, 2018)

We live in a world where we are supposed to 'be a man' but at the same time we are not allowed to 'be a man.'


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## Sure Thing Idiot (Mar 7, 2018)

Men have heavier pressure put on them by society than women do. Women can have a bad day and people care. They might not really _care _but they're more likely to adopt the illusion of caring, self-imposed or put on by others, the media, so on, when that woman says "I'm having a really, really bad day."

I'm not suggesting that's the reason more men kill themselves but it's something I've observed, that there could be a gaping, missing portion of the mental health bridge when it comes to men. Both sexes are guilty of it. Men expect other men to be able to hold it together in dire times and women expect men to be emotionally strong. What happens when a man can't handle it or isn't emotionally strong, or breaks? He might become viewed as inferior or weak. If he feels inferior and weak is he likely to reach out for help? No. He's a man. He shouldn't need help. He should be a man and act like one. 

I've worked jobs with a large number of staff before and I have seen people say stuff like "hey don't be rude... she's having a rough day" but I've never heard that said about any male employees who openly admitted to being depressed or down. You're having a bad day? Toughen up. Get over it. Oh you're sad? Life is hard. Deal with it.

Men don't get much leeway when it comes to male emotion possibly teetering on the brink of fragility. I personally think, that combined with whatever the fuck they're going through, that pushes a lot of guys over the edge. Why continue on if nobody cares about your general wellbeing?

That's just my theory.


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## Tookie (Mar 7, 2018)

There are a lot less safety nets for men. If everything goes to absolute shit for a woman there are plenty of charities, non-profits, government programs, etc. aimed at helping them. If it happens to a man, it's pretty much "go fuck yourself" and become a bum (%70-%85 of homeless are male depending on the source) or KYS.


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## Pikimon (Mar 7, 2018)

Probably because for a lot of men its seen as a sign of weakness to "get help" (including but not limited to, talking about it, going to therapy etc.) when shit gets hard.


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## Sinner's Sandwich (Mar 7, 2018)

and nothing of value was lost


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## aqua sama (Mar 8, 2018)

sometimes I get the feeling that men, get shit on a bit too much in this day and age.
It doesnt surprise me that they kill themselves more often. today it's all about helping women, striving for equality, but most of the time, men end up getting the short end of the stick, in the process.


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## Medicated (Mar 17, 2018)

Sure Thing Idiot said:


> Men have heavier pressure put on them by society than women do. Women can have a bad day and people care. They might not really _care _but they're more likely to adopt the illusion of caring, self-imposed or put on by others, the media, so on, when that woman says "I'm having a really, really bad day."
> 
> I'm not suggesting that's the reason more men kill themselves but it's something I've observed, that there could be a gaping, missing portion of the mental health bridge when it comes to men. Both sexes are guilty of it. Men expect other men to be able to hold it together in dire times and women expect men to be emotionally strong. What happens when a man can't handle it or isn't emotionally strong, or breaks? He might become viewed as inferior or weak. If he feels inferior and weak is he likely to reach out for help? No. He's a man. He shouldn't need help. He should be a man and act like one.
> 
> ...



It's funny because a lot of feminists bring up that women "were treated like livestock" in past human history, and while they aren't wrong, men in general have rarely if ever been considered so valuable that a random unskilled guy would have any market value.   I think it's just a biological brain wiring.  Women are important to the survival of the tribe, one man can easily do the job of ten.  If you aren't up to the job, then theres plenty of others.

And I think that general mindset continues and will always continue.


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