General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

I wonder how long this will stay up on Youtube?

(Sorry I don't know how to archive a video.)


Now it will stay up forever. Local archive:



Protip: The open-source utility yt-dlp is your friend for archiving most non-Twitter videos. Videos on Twitter are best grabbed with SaveTweetVid.
 
Right, becasue none of you have seen a real vaginia nor have had sex.
Not only I saw it, I touched it, pushed a hard orgasm through fingering that vagina that belonged to one person I had sex with. Then with my cock.

But I'm not sure if your pedo-mind would understand how refreshing and overall good to have sex with fully grown woman.
Have any of you considered that vaginas are gross in general?
No. Why? I like vaginas since 4. Just accidentally found that "cartoons" tape my parents happen to hide in, rather, not good place to hide such things.
Yes I'm that old enouh to remember VHS tapes, oy vey!
 
I was just thinking today how wildly inconsistent these freaks are with their views on defining woman/manhood. For example, if you take a lot of estrogen, this will make you more of a woman. So, high estrogen levels make you more of a woman (and same for testosterone for men). Yet, having a penis has NOTHING to do with manhood (same with vagina and womanhood). And I do not understand how breasts are seen as a sign of "womanhood" (which is why TIMs want to grow them and why TIFs want to bind them/cut them off) yet having a fucking bleeding pussy every month is considered completely unrelated to womanhood, or even why getting pregnant is not related to womanhood. How the fuck do these freaks square that circle? How can a transman make sense of binding her tits while she has a baby inside her belly?

I would WAY more respect if they were like "yeah I have tits and a pussy and I have periods and I love getting knocked up but fuck you I'm a man" or "Yeah I have a massive cock and a full beard but fuck you I'm a woman" but no, they just have to find some *thing* about them that they find dysphoric while completely ignoring several other massive things that are very obviously dysphoric (and yes I know there are the types who are like that but they are a slim minority)
 
Men do not have vaginas. There is no surgery to extend their vaginal canal to where it should properly be, since there shouldn't be a vaginal canal there to begin with. There is no uterus to tunnel towards and restore access to. There are no ovaries, no fallopian tubes. If they are given a fake vaginal canal, it does not function the way a vagina does. It doesn't expand and contract naturally when aroused- it stays open constantly instead of a woman's vagina which only has 3 inches of depth when unaroused before expanding when aroused, it doesn't lubricate itself (unless with the anal fluid you have a fetish for, but even then, that's not self-lubricating), and by that, it doesn't clean itself out. Any bacteria must be manually washed out unless infection festers. You have to pull out hairballs covered in dead skin and whatever fluids you put into your rot pocket. There are no mucosa membranes, no vaginal linings- your partner will feel like he's sticking his penis into a belly button.

Um the neovagina does lubricate itself.
  • Dr. Gallagher, a prominent gender affirming surgeon says,
    • “The small glands in the urethra, which secrete pre-ejaculate, are left intact in trans women. Its highly variable how much is secreted (0-5ml) but that can give some lubrication on arousal.”
  • Another prominent gender affirming surgeon, Dr. Whittenberg, elaborates further:
    • “If a person pre-comes with excitation pre-operatively (this is from the existing Cowper’s glands and some additional fluids from the prostate) then that will persist post-operatively as those structures stay in place. For these women and gender non-binary individuals, there is a chance they may not need additional lube.'
For the record the male prostate is homoeologous to a woman's Skene's glands which are responsible for lubrication.

Second if it stayed open constantly, then why the need for dilation?

As for mucosal membranes:
There are two kinds of surface tissue in the human body: slimy, and scaly. (Epithelium: glandular and squamous). They both function to protect the body from harmful environments but they work quite differently.

Scaly issue, as you might expect, is particularly resistant to abrasion. It's made of flattened cells stuck together. These cells eventually fall off and become a big part of the grimy dust that collects indoors. (Ewww) The largest area of scaly tissue is skin. As you'd imagine.

Slimy tissue has glands that produce special protective slime, and cillae - very tiny hair-like projections from individual cells that move it along. This allows the tissue to do crazy specialized stuff, such as the soapy slime in lungs that allows them to expand effortlessly (like soap bubbles). Lungs have the most surface area, but slimy tissue is also found lining the intestines and stomach, urinary tract, and upper reproductive system.

Slimy tissue needs damp, physically protected locations in the body. So what about parts of the body that are damp, but subject to physical abrasion?

Well, it turns out that these have scaly tissue too. Mouth. Lower reproductive tract. Seriously, cis women have squamous (scaly) vaginal lining without mucus glands.

And it's possible for scaly tissue to adapt to a wet or dry environment. Lips are mouth tissue adapted to dryness. One of the things that has been really surprising in plastic surgery is how much neovaginal tissue becomes like nasal.

Since the expression of cells is controlled by hormones, over time as cells die and replaced, and change their expression, they will end up very similiar (not the same admittly but similiar) to vaginal lining.

Uterus aren't going to be an issue: https://www.futurity.org/transgender-women-uterus-transplant-2536292-2/
And really, if a woman can be a woman without a vagina, then you can't really point to that and say "not a woman without it".

The average depth of a
A woman's neovagina is a corrective surgery that puts a vagina where it should be, thus it's a simple process that does not require lifetime dilation, nor even a year of dilation. A man's neovagina is a cosmetic surgery that puts a vagina where a vagina shouldn't be, thus it's a long, complicated process involving ruining a functioning sex organ to replace it with a pocket that can never, ever be used for reproduction. It will require lifetime dilation. You will always need to dilate to make sure your rotting wound will not seal up on itself, and if it does, you need surgery again to open it back up.
For one thing the dilation is not a lifetime. Second, neovagina’s imitate what is the vulva: so you would obtain a clitoris, a clitoris hood, labia majora and minora and normal urination.
A woman is a woman. A man is a man. It doesn't matter that you want to put your dick in a necrotic wound.
I never understand why you call it a "rotting wound" since it's it's all epidermis on the inside. It's no more an open wound than the inside of your mouth, which is to say that it doesn't bleed, there are no open sores, it doesn't risk infection, etc. The lining is epithelium.

It's a graft like the ones we discussed with cis women remember? Besides you seem to want to reduce a woman to her reproductive organs despite many case of ciswomen apparently not having them.
Finally: there is no such thing, medically, as "intersexed brains"
Wrong
No. Why? I like vaginas since 4. Just accidentally found that "cartoons" tape my parents happen to hide in, rather, not good place to hide such things.
Well thanks for proving that nudity doesn't harm kids lol.
I would WAY more respect if they were like "yeah I have tits and a pussy and I have periods and I love getting knocked up but fuck you I'm a man" or "Yeah I have a massive cock and a full beard but fuck you I'm a woman" but no, they just have to find some *thing* about them that they find dysphoric while completely ignoring several other massive things that are very obviously dysphoric (and yes I know there are the types who are like that but they are a slim minority)
I was just thinking today how wildly inconsistent these freaks are with their views on defining woman/manhood. For example, if you take a lot of estrogen, this will make you more of a woman. So, high estrogen levels make you more of a woman (and same for testosterone for men). Yet, having a penis has NOTHING to do with manhood (same with vagina and womanhood). And I do not understand how breasts are seen as a sign of "womanhood" (which is why TIMs want to grow them and why TIFs want to bind them/cut them off) yet having a fucking bleeding pussy every month is considered completely unrelated to womanhood, or even why getting pregnant is not related to womanhood. How the fuck do these freaks square that circle? How can a transman make sense of binding her tits while she has a baby inside her belly?
Do you understand how passing works? Still thanks for admitting that biological sex is bs. Thanks for that.
 
That paper doesn't say that.
Well...

Transsexualism as an Intersex Condition​

For trans persons it is the brain that is intersexed in a non-apparent way.

How has the intersexuality of the transsexual brain been revealed? Early findings of sex difference were reported in the rat brain by Gorski et al. in 1978 (Gorski, Gordon, Shrayne, & Southam, 1978 ). They termed this area with the sex difference the medial preoptic nucleus (MPON). This was followed some years later by an analogous report for the human brain that the anterior commissure and massa intermedia were found sexually different. The search for sex differences in the brain became an active topic for research.

Neuroanatomical sex differences were observed in the midsagittal area of both the anterior commissure and the massa intermedia in humans. This analysis was from postmortem tissue from 100 age-matched adult males and females. While not present in all individuals, when present the anterior commissure, was an average of 12%, larger in females than in males and the massa intermedia, was an average of 53% larger in females than in males. These sex differences were found even though the brains of males were larger than those of females. Previously, these investigators had also found differences in the shape of the splenium (more bulbous) of the corpus callosum but not in the area covered (Allen & Gorski, 1991).

This same laboratory team identified other sexually dimorphic cell groups in the preoptic area of the human hypothalamus (PO-AHA) and collectively termed them the Interstitial Nucleus of the Hypothalamus with four subregions named INAH 1, 2, 3 and 4 (Allen, Hines, Shryne, & Gorski, 1989). Of these, the volume of INAH-3 was found almost three times (2.8x) as large in men as in women, and contained more than twice as many cells. Between the ages of 10 and 93 years, the nucleus decreases greatly in volume and in cell number. It had been suggested that this region was related to sexual orientation (LeVay, 1991). It is located within an area that is essential for gonadotropin release and sexual behavior in mammals. Another cell group (INAH-2) was twice as large in the male brain, but also appeared to be related in women to circulating steroid hormone levels. Since the preoptic-anterior hypothalamic area influences gonadotropin secretion, maternal behavior, and sexual behavior in several mammalian species, these results suggest that functional sex differences in the hypothalamus are related to significant sex differences in neural structure (Allen et al., 1989).

As with the Allen et al. 1989 findings, Hofman and Swaab also researched the comparable area in the human. They reported the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic anterior region of the hypothalamus (SDN-POA) in the human was markedly sexually dimorphic in volume, number of cells contained and in its structural organization. They reported finding that the volume of a putative homologue of the area originally reported for the rat brain by Gorski et al. as sexually dimorphic, was also sexually dimorphic in the adult human hypothalamus. It was more than twice as large in men as in women and contained about twice as many cells (Hofman & Swaab, 1989). Among the most significant brain differences found were those of Zhou and colleagues (Zhou, Hofman, Gooren, & Swaab, 1995). They reported finding that in males the central division of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) was significantly larger than in females.

Now consider neuroanatomical features found in the brains of transsexual peoples. In 1995 Zhou et al. were the first to report finding a female brain structure in genetically male trans persons. They hypothesized these findings supported the theory that gender identity develops as a result of a normal interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones (Zhou, M. A. Hofman, Gooren, & Swaab, 1995). The area implicated was the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) of the hypothalamus that is sexually dimorphic in size and number of cells contained. Kruijver et al. subsequently expanded upon this finding. They found the number of neurons in the BSTc of trans women was similar to that of the females among cisgender women. In contrast, the neuron number of a FtM transsexual was found to be in the male range (Kruijver et al., 2000). This work supports the paradigm that, for transsexual persons, sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go in opposite directions and points to a neurobiological basis of transsexualism and the accompanying gender dysphoria.

Subsequent studies continued to substantiate these findings. Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab in 2008, using three different staining techniques, reported finding that INAH3 volume and number of neurons in the brains of those who went male-to-female (trans women) is similar to that of control females (Garcia-Falguera & Swaab, 2008). They proposed that the sex reversal of the INAH3 in trans persons is at least partly a marker of an early atypical sexual differentiation of the brain and that the changes in INAH3 and the BSTc may belong to a complex network that may structurally and functionally be related to gender identity.
 
@ryu289 you dumb faggot. What does "passing" have to do with rationalizing that some biological shit is inherently "man" and "woman" to these subhumans yet other things have absolutely NOTHING to do with gender/sex? They're just making it up as they go along for sake of convenience. As in, it's easy to acquire estrogen/testosterone, therefore, it's easy to assign these things to one gender vs the other, whereas finding a surgeon who will turn your MAN cock into a beautiful WOMAN vagina actually takes thousands and thousands of dollars, therefore there's no such thing as a MAN cock, the cock is completely asexual/agenderal! PS you're a faggot
 
@ryu289 you dumb faggot. What does "passing" have to do with rationalizing that some biological shit is inherently "man" and "woman" to these subhumans yet other things have absolutely NOTHING to do with gender/sex? They're just making it up as they go along for sake of convenience. As in, it's easy to acquire estrogen/testosterone, therefore, it's easy to assign these things to one gender vs the other, whereas finding a surgeon who will turn your MAN cock into a beautiful WOMAN vagina actually takes thousands and thousands of dollars, therefore there's no such thing as a MAN cock, the cock is completely asexual/agenderal! PS you're a faggot
The dude your debating has admited to having a fetish for transgender transformations so you are quite right in your assessment of him. Particularly the purchase of such matieral of an eight/nine year old anime girl. He has his own thread in animal control and seems to have a goal of just shitting up and derailing threads.
 
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The dude your debating has admited to having a fetish for transgender transformations so you are quite right in your assessment of him. Particularly the purchase of such matieral of an eight/nine year old anime girl. He has his own thread in animal control and seems to have a goal of just shitting up and derailing threads.
Undoubtedly part of his fetish is being called a deranged faggot for his awful opinions, so I'm just feeding into it. My fault really
 
Do you know what a euphemism is? The author is being euphemistic.
And do you know what special pleading is? Because that's what you are doing.
Particularly the purchase of such matieral of an eight/nine year old anime girl
Wow, it wasn't an anime girl for one thing.
What does "passing" have to do with rationalizing that some biological shit is inherently "man" and "woman" to these subhumans yet other things have absolutely NOTHING to do with gender/sex?
This naïve model of gender perception treats gender as a property emitted from an individual, with all others as passive receivers who simply accept this expression at face value. Yet this is precisely backwards – expressions of gender are not objective and singular; they are subjective, interpretative, and multiple. The same trans person, on the same day, with exactly the same appearance, can still have their gender read entirely differently depending on who’s looking at them. Why does this happen?

At least in part, it’s because many of the variables involved here aren’t located within the one person being observed, but rather the multiple people observing them. Research on gender perception has provided extensive evidence that there is a wide array of factors which can influence how each person will see and interpret someone’s gender or the gendered features of their appearance.

(Nelson, Biernat, & Manis, 1990)
(Nelson, Biernat, & Manis, 1990)
In one study, viewers looked at images of men and women of the same height, and consistently perceived the men as taller than their actual height and the women as shorter (Nelson, Biernat, & Manis, 1990). This effect persisted regardless of whether the images depicted men and women who were standing or seated. A similar trend has been found among parents of infants, who consistently estimate newborns of the same size as being larger if a boy, and smaller if a girl (Ruben, Provenzano, & Luria, 1974). Whether a person sees someone as male or female has a direct influence on the perception of their height and size. Considering a trans woman to be a “man” could mean seeing her as taller or larger than she really is.

(Debruine et al., 2010)

(DeBruine et al., 2010)
(DeBruine et al., 2010)
(DeBruine et al., 2010)

There’s also evidence that a person’s own imagination can skew whether they view a face as more masculine or feminine. In one experiment, after subjects had either been asked to imagine a feminine face or a masculine face, each group was then shown the same androgynous-appearing face. Those who had imagined a feminine face also saw the image as more feminine, while those who imagined a masculine face saw it as less feminine (D’Ascenzo, Tommasi, & Laeng, 2014; DeBruine, Welling, Jones, & Little, 2010). A person who imagines that trans women appear stereotypically “manly” may perceive a trans woman as more masculine than she really is upon learning that she’s
really is upon learning that she’s trans.

Skewed perceptions of our gendered appearance can be based on unseen features as well. In their 1978 book Gender: An Ethnomethodological Approach, Kessler and McKenna reported on the results of an experiment where participants were asked to determine the gender of a series of drawn figures with various combinations of gendered features. They found that even when the genitals of a figure were concealed, once subjects decided which genitals they believed it to have, this belief then influenced their interpretation of its other attributes (Kessler & McKenna, 1978). Those who decided a figure had a penis would more often view that figure’s long hair as still being within the range of an acceptable “male hair length”. They were more likely to disregard such a figure’s wide hips or even judge them as being narrow, and tended to consider its face to be masculine – even though the same androgynous face was used for every figure. For someone who’s preoccupied with thinking about the genitals they imagine a trans person to have, this could influence how they evaluate that person’s masculinity or femininity.

Another study found that subjects were more likely to rate a walking human figure of ambiguous sex as being male when they were exposed to the scent of male sweat (Hacker, Brooks, & van der Zwan, 2013). This effect was observed even though they were not consciously aware that the scent was present.

Straight men who score highly on a rating of insecurity about their masculinity have also been shown to direct greater attention toward more accurately recognizing faces with a gender-atypical appearance (Lick, Johnson, & Riskind, 2015). Researchers have theorized that this occurs because these men perceive gender-atypical people as a threat to their own identity. A person who doesn’t feel secure in their masculinity might be more likely to look for trans people and notice that someone is trans.

Gender attribution is also known to be affected by a persistent bias toward categorizing individuals as male. Kessler and McKenna found that masculine-coded and feminine-coded cues are not weighed equally when evaluating someone’s gender; instead, multiple feminine cues were needed to counteract even a single masculine cue and ensure that a figure would be perceived as female (Kessler & McKenna, 1978). Over the years, this “male bias” has been repeatedly observed in many studies. The size of a person’s hands is often used as an indicator of their gender, and when a hand is of an ambiguous size, it will be interpreted as male more frequently than female (Gaetano, van der Zwan, Blair, & Brooks, 2014). The same skew towards categorization of individuals as male has been observed in the interpretation of waist-to-hip ratio as well as overall body shape (Johnson, Iida, & Tassinary, 2012).

(Johnson et al., 2012)

(Johnson et al., 2012)

Studies of gender attribution have described people as generally “conservative in their judgements of targets as female but liberal in their judgements of targets as male” (Gaetano et al., 2014). This may partially explain the widespread perception that trans men are able to achieve a clearly male appearance more easily than trans women can achieve a clearly female appearance. It may not be the case that they are actually expressing more clearly visible gender cues than trans women – instead, this apparent ease could be an artifact of the general tendency to require very few masculine cues before viewing a person as male.

Increasingly, even many cis women are being harassed in women’s restrooms by self-styled vigilantes who felt that they were insufficiently feminine and judged them to be men. Male bias has a more pronounced effect as gender cues become more ambiguous: getting an uncertain or unclear look at a person’s face is associated with a greater likelihood of perceiving them as masculine (Watson, Otsuka, & Clifford, 2016). This may have an outsized impact on trans people and how their appearances are evaluated, as their physical sex characteristics are sometimes seen as at least temporarily occupying an intermediate or mixed state.
They're just making it up as they go along for sake of convenience. As in, it's easy to acquire estrogen/testosterone, therefore, it's easy to assign these things to one gender vs the other, whereas finding a surgeon who will turn your MAN cock into a beautiful WOMAN vagina actually takes thousands and thousands of dollars, therefore there's no such thing as a MAN cock, the cock is completely asexual/agenderal!
Both "sexes" have both testosterone and estrogen in varying amounts to begin with so no, they are not inherently gendered. I doubt you would find any trans persons who believes in your strawman literally.
Again, my phrasing is deliberate.
That's also called "making a strawman".
 
Is Zinnia Jones a trans woman? That would explain Ryu's entire schtick for wanting to fuck trans women in particular.
also @ryu289 since I can't reply: I hope the troon you simp for the most reads this.
 
And do you know what special pleading is? Because that's what you are doing.
Special pleading is arguing that one set of circumstances be treated differently than a similar set of circumstances without explaining what makes them different.

I emphasized "medically intersex" and contrasted that with the author of the paper using intersex euphemistically.

For people who know what a euphemism is, that's a perfectly clear explanation. Do you know what a euphemism is? Or what about a metaphor? Perhaps that would be a better way to describe it: the author was using "intersex" metaphorically.

Understand?

Also this isn't a game of pokemon you nerd, you don't win by throwing down fallacy cards. Explain what you mean or explain what you disagree with; argue your point with your words, like a grown ass adult.
That's also called "making a strawman".
That doesn't even make sense, whose argument was I strawmanning?
 
Also ryu should get with the times, trans people start screaming bloody murder when anyone tries to make the case for any directly measurable signs (in the brain or otherwise) of transsexualism. It's all about self-reports and informed consent these days.

What a "truscum;" for shame.
 
It was really hard to figure out where exactly to put this, but fuck it, here is as good a place as any:


Very interesting interview with 3 dads whose kids have all suddenly come out as trans. In the case of two of them it was their sons, with all the telltale AGP signs mentioned - anime, furry porn, wanting to have a female body but maintaining male personality traits, desire to keep their junk, and most notably, Breadtube - specifically Hbomberguy's infamous Mermaids charity stream.
 
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Special pleading is arguing that one set of circumstances be treated differently than a similar set of circumstances without explaining what makes them different.

I emphasized "medically intersex" and contrasted that with the author of the paper using intersex euphemistically.
And you using "medically" intersex is the strawman here. Tell me, what does "mecialy intersex" even mean?
Or what about a metaphor? Perhaps that would be a better way to describe it: the author was using "intersex" metaphorically.
How was it a metaphor to you then? Let's see:
These brain differences are sufficient enough to conclude that persons with a transsexual condition are intersexed. Simultaneously it is recognized that many intersexed persons will switch from their assigned gender, yet many will not.
How is this a "metaphor"?
 
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