Feminism and the LGBT Community with Respect to Transgenderism - A vain (and autistic) attempt to improve Tranny Sideshows

[Wyciwe]

Well if that is the case, why is your hatred on the minority here, the better part of Normie society are generally trying to push for this new movement and trying to make things better for those that feel legitimate body issues?

Theres enough hate for everyone who participates in this charade.

Is every person, the hundreds of thousands or millions that do support it or aren’t against it and just are like ‘yeah alright this is good’ and think it’s a positive step towards tolerance automatically wrong?

Positive step? Tolerance? Its a massive regression of womens and gay rights. Tolerance is not telling boys and girls that because they don't fit gender stereotypes they are literally defective on the genetic level.

Does it make all the celebs and intelligent people with years of experience who support retard because they respect trans people.

yes

If Oprah or Brian Cox or some big league scientist says ‘I support trans rights’ does that automatically make them a retard and diminish all their credibility and achievements?

Literally yes you retard

The main issue here is the way people on the farms think that they have the right opinion

Opposing transgnderism is the right opinion, its not even an opinion. If someone proposes eating babies directly out of their mother its not an opinion to be "fuck no dont do that". Mutilating gender non conforming people is evil, the surgeries are absolutely horrifying, HRT isn't even a lower evil. Do a cost benefit analysis, women are increasing their risk of heart disease multiplies times over for a wispy stache. This isn't chemotherapy where the cure can be worse than the disease because there is no disease. There is no physiological need for anything trannies demand. It can't even be compared to electroshock therapy or thalidomide where those do have non evil applications. What goddamn purpose would inverting a penis ever have? Did you seriously take the life saving meme seriously? I gave you too much credit. Furthermore who could see what is done to these people and not feel the need to end transgenderism, are you fucking mengele?

on such a complex issue

Back to my eating babies direct from the source analogy. Torture and mutilate people for no reason yes or no? Very complex and nuanced I tell you hwat.

and know what’s right for the world,when it is literally (mostly) accepted by the general population and it’s support it’s currently growing in mainstream media. Books, tv shows movies, musicians and support from LGBT groups and celebs and powerful organisations vouching for them and improving their rights on a daily basis.

How... illuminating. Its popular, everyone supports it, therefore it can't be wrong. I really did give you too much credit,

What does the opinions of only a few thousand oddities on some obscure lolcow website going to do to change all that?

This is irrelevant.

Should we undo years of progress for perhaps a million or so people

Yes, their "progress" is evil.

just because arrogant people on an already controversial website says so? Of course not that’ll never happen.

You think its just the bigoted kiwis that oppose this? Keep telling yourself that.

There are hundreds of people leaps and bounds smarter on anyone this site that support trans people and don’t think they’re all monsters

And? Appeal to authority harder and I'm sure to come around to see the moral good of mutilating people.

, they don’t need to take advice from a weird community that’s mostly right wing and don’t have that much power in the grand scheme of things.

Muh right wing I'm not even on the right, its my left ideals that ensured I would never agree with a movement that is do deeply reactionary and hateful of genuine progress.

TLR- stop playing God and acting like you are the ultimate authority on the way society should be, you don’t have to like trans people, you can even loathe them, but don’t hope that they’ll all one day just go away and stop because it won’t. It’s a movement with continued support in society and is only for owing by the day, if you don’t like it, then well too ducking bad, suck it up and move on

Oh irony "stop playing god" says the transhumanism supporter. Also you really gonna go "tee hee no one can oppose us" like a supervillain and not see what you actually are? If in fifty years the trannies win it won't change the facts. Some people supported maiming the body for a mental disorder and some people didn't.

 

[thegooddoctor]

Regardless of how you feel, the vast majority of people support it and while humankind can be phenomenally stupid I don’t think that continuing to support them is overall a bad idea. More people feel accepted and it leads to further tolerance in society and just in general pushes towards a more LGBT positive society. Nobody wants to go back to the days of gays being treated like absolute shit enduring decades of abuse, social ostracisation from friends and family, and sometimes even paying with their lives. What is happening now with Trans culture is the same thing that happened with the Gay revolution in 60s and 70s. Albeit fifty years later and people with far bigger hurdles to overcome.

You may hate them now but I tell you in another quarter century or so people will be looking back at us and shocked at how bigoted and intolerant we were to something like transgenderism in the same way we look back at gay bashing world of the 1950s and laugh at how narrow minded society was.

Thai is all just what happens in process of social change, there is huge controversy, bitching and vitriol from people like you saying it’s wrong, immoral and disgusting. But complain all you want, Thai is the push society is heading and your issues with it don’t matter a damn, the left are going to win either way.

 

[Marvin]

Regardless of how you feel, the vast majority of people support it

I don't think this is true. I think the general population doesn't really understand the issue and broadly supports it as an extension of gay rights.

As an example, I actually doubt that most normies even understand what the mantra "transwomen are women" even means. I think a not insignificant chunk of the public believes it's saying "trans identifying females are women".

Public ignorance might ordinarily be sufficient to sneak an issue by an unsuspecting public, like if the issue was largely private, like drug use or homosexuality, but transsexualism is inherently a public issue. It involves legal definitions of men and women and this touches huge chunks of society.

And the objective evidence does show that the public stops supporting trans issues when they collectively become more aware about what trans activists are actually trying to do.

A great example is the sports issue. Troon activists recently hired a public relations firm to poll the public and run focus groups to determine how best to market troons in sports to the public. Surprisingly (or perhaps unsurprisingly, if you've been keeping up on what normies think about these issues), they discovered that they had low agreement with even their test subjects who were pro trans.

This is the same for many troon issues, including bathrooms (see Loudoun County incident) and medicalizing gender nonconforming kids.

You may hate them now but I tell you in another quarter century or so people will be looking back at us and shocked at how bigoted and intolerant we were to something like transgenderism in the same way we look back at gay bashing world of the 1950s and laugh at how narrow minded society was.

Unlikely. Like I alluded to above, the public really isn't keen on tranny stuff when you actually talk to them about it.

Tranny issues are unlike other social movements in that the more informed people are about troons, the less they support them.

There's actual documentation on this, for example the IGLYO document (which is still on their website, last time I checked) sets out that their best strategy to get tranny stuff in law is to basically sneak it past the public.

This might've worked, and it sorta worked for awhile, but I think as a long term strategy it's really naive.

When you normalize gays or blacks, you realize that they're just like us. But most trannies aren't just like us. They have untreated psychological problems. They're propagandized to be incredibly entitled.

Like, look at Lia Thomas. He is beating the fuck out of women's records in a very public way. Same with those troon teenagers in Connecticut a few years ago.

Even if they pass the laws once, the vitriol trannies are stirring up with normies will lead them to repeal the laws, something that rarely happens.

Hell, personally as someone who's politically active in this area, I was betting the farm on sports being the critical thing, but I'm surprised (and pleased) at how pissed people are about the Loudoun County thing.

Trannies aren't like the gays. Gays mind their own business. Trannies push themselves into women's spaces, including prisons, sports and bathrooms. They're unable to refrain from this, even if solely as a matter of political strategy, and normies are noticing. Consider the hundreds of tranny related bills in legislatures in the US this year.

All the evidence shows that this shit is collapsing.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

Trans people are living an extreme body modification lifestyle. Thats all it is. They chose to change their bodies to suit their delusions, rather than change their minds to accept their bodies, warts and all. Oliver Lennard is no more a woman than Stalking Cat was a tigress. The arguments are the same.

 

[Syntaxion]

Regardless of how you feel, the vast majority of people support it

The vast, vast, vast majority of people on planet earth do not believe a woman can have a penis or that a man can get pregnant.

 

[thegooddoctor]

The vast, vast, vast majority of people on planet earth do not believe a woman can have a penis or that a man can get pregnant.

Maybe not the latter, but more and more for the former, transgenderism is in its infancy and more people will eventually accept them. Also if you insist that transgenderism is all a mental illness and there is no such thing as legitimately feeling like the wrong gender? What would you suggest should be done to help people who suffer from it? To my knowledge there is no ‘cure’ for gender identity issues. People cannot help being born with it and no actual pills, ronics or known medication have been confirmed to treat such an illness? What would you have people do then? Live their life feeling disgusted by themselves for being born different and never get help ever? What is your solution to the trans crisis geniuses hmm?

 

[Syntaxion]

Maybe not the latter, but more and more for the former,

Twitter trannies are not a representive of humanity

Outside of them, the best example of "trans acceptence" would be effeminate/gay men pushed to the edge of society like in Iran, Thailand and India - and even there, they're called "ladyboys" for a reason

The standard western AGP lesbian troon is not accepted anywhere but among his fellow twitter trannies.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

Maybe not the latter, but more and more for the former, transgenderism is in its infancy and more people will eventually accept them.

Transgenderism is indeed an -ism. Its a belief. It cannot be demonstrated to be materially, factually true, therefore it's a religious belief. Keep it in church.

Also if you insist that transgenderism is all a mental illness and there is no such thing as legitimately feeling like the wrong gender?

What makes the feeling legitimate. Stalking Cat felt like a tigress. How are transwomen women but Stalking Cat wasn't a tigress.

What would you suggest should be done to help people who suffer from it?

Cleave to truth, to what can be established as fact. Desperately clinging to a delusion and enforcing that delusion by force of law is certainly not the way to go.

To my knowledge there is no ‘cure’ for gender identity issues.

Death cures everything. You'll never be unwell ever again.

People cannot help being born with it and no actual pills, ronics or known medication have been confirmed to treat such an illness?

People who think they're Napoleon are treated just fine. Why not males who think they're female. Delusions can be treated.

What would you have people do then? Live their life feeling disgusted by themselves for being born different and never get help ever?

For you, "get help" for trannies means enabling. To the rest of us it means stop trying to live a lie and going to therapy. You're wrong to say we don't want to help these people. You've just defined out the kind of help we advocate, which is a pity, because it's the only real help.

What is your solution to the trans crisis geniuses hmm?

Why don't we cut off some body parts just to be sure. Yeah that'll help. Maybe dose people with wrong sex hormones. That'll stabilize their mental condition, floods of hormones. Heart disease, what's that. Increased risk of stroke, what's that. Osteoporosis, what's that. Vaginal atrophy turning to sepsis and almost killing Susan "Buck" Angel, what's that. Trooning kids to validate mentally ill adults extreme body modification lifestyle, what's that. Genius. To celebrate, go have another mutilation. Why not.

 

[thegooddoctor]

I don't think this is true. I think the general population doesn't really understand the issue and broadly supports it as an extension of gay rights.

As an example, I actually doubt that most normies even understand what the mantra "transwomen are women" even means. I think a not insignificant chunk of the public believes it's saying "trans identifying females are women".

Public ignorance might ordinarily be sufficient to sneak an issue by an unsuspecting public, like if the issue was largely private, like drug use or homosexuality, but transsexualism is inherently a public issue. It involves legal definitions of men and women and this touches huge chunks of society.

And the objective evidence does show that the public stops supporting trans issues when they collectively become more aware about what trans activists are actually trying to do.

A great example is the sports issue. Troon activists recently hired a public relations firm to poll the public and run focus groups to determine how best to market troons in sports to the public. Surprisingly (or perhaps unsurprisingly, if you've been keeping up on what normies think about these issues), they discovered that they had low agreement with even their test subjects who were pro trans.

This is the same for many troon issues, including bathrooms (see Loudoun County incident) and medicalizing gender nonconforming kids.

Unlikely. Like I alluded to above, the public really isn't keen on tranny stuff when you actually talk to them about it.

Tranny issues are unlike other social movements in that the more informed people are about troons, the less they support them.

There's actual documentation on this, for example the IGLYO document (which is still on their website, last time I checked) sets out that their best strategy to get tranny stuff in law is to basically sneak it past the public.

This might've worked, and it sorta worked for awhile, but I think as a long term strategy it's really naive.

When you normalize gays or blacks, you realize that they're just like us. But most trannies aren't just like us. They have untreated psychological problems. They're propagandized to be incredibly entitled.

Like, look at Lia Thomas. He is beating the fuck out of women's records in a very public way. Same with those troon teenagers in Connecticut a few years ago.

Even if they pass the laws once, the vitriol trannies are stirring up with normies will lead them to repeal the laws, something that rarely happens.

Hell, personally as someone who's politically active in this area, I was betting the farm on sports being the critical thing, but I'm surprised (and pleased) at how pissed people are about the Loudoun County thing.

Trannies aren't like the gays. Gays mind their own business. Trannies push themselves into women's spaces, including prisons, sports and bathrooms. They're unable to refrain from this, even if solely as a matter of political strategy, and normies are noticing. Consider the hundreds of tranny related bills in legislatures in the US this year.

All the evidence shows that this shit is collapsing.

Well regardless of what a particular portion of the transgender community may act like and the deviancy that persists in large factions of it. The movement generally seems to be supported by enough people of power that it the consensus will eventually lead towards general acceptance, all the sexual deviancy, criminal behaviour by a few trannies that have been reported ar obviously not indicative of all trans people, these people obviously have other more Serious mental illnesses as to commit murder and acts of actual discrimination. Just because someone is trans or gay doesn’t mean they are immediately going to Jack off in public or shank a guy for image seeing them once. All the stuff you guys trannies for are the most deliberately misleading examples of the worst parts of the culture. These are not real transpeople rather than full on sociopathic sexual deviants, who happen to be transgender. Them doing stuff like Thai is not co-dependent on whether they are transgender or not. It’s all just blatant dishonesty here.

And to your point of saying that the general public support trans less the more they understand it, that is simply not true, rather it’s the reverse. More and more schools, scientists, people in all fields of Phychology and mental health Research are starting to implement more and more time into studying and analysing the layers of gender dysphoria and those that have it. To gain a better understanding and help develop and improve the study so it can hopefully be understood better in modern society.

Schools and colleges are starting to implement more gender neutral bathrooms and are adding gender studies and all sorts of tolerance towards transgender the community. One day on gay pride day, my University even had a whole theme decorating the uni not with just gay, but trans, bisexual and all the other non binary and different sexuality flags. It was such a pretty and knowledgeable site, I had no idea there were so many different coded flags for all the varying LGBTQ sexualities. Saying that society isn’t trying to normalise this new social movement is ludicrous.

And ultimately, even if what your saying does happen, and Incidents of criminal behaviour in the LGBT community continue because of select instances of people who just happen to be transsexual and commit acts of antisocial behaviour, crime, vandalism or an act of political aggression. Even if there is a push against allowing sex operations and opting for therapeutic actions towards men and women who exhibit gender dysphoria and expressed concerns of gender confusion. Even if there is some public backlash to a lot of the trans community. Banning it or completely repealing Trans rights or limiting sex change surgeries would be an unbelievably difficult, near impossible task that would lead to further vitriol, instability and further demoralisation of the public and LGBT communities.

While not true for everyone, generally speaking in this century, people generally try not push against something they don’t automatically like or don’t agree with because they find it alienating or it compromises their own core beliefs. Humans in western society I believe have gradually since about the mid 20th century, tried to push towards acceptance of minorities I.e Blacks, Gays, Women and the mentally and physically disabled. Groups who have historically been the recipient of centuries of discrimination at the hands of wealthy white men and whom society wants to apologise and accept as a way of easing the horrific guilt felt by so much of the western world for the centuries of hell these groups must have experienced.

What I’m ultimately saying that even if you were to repeal the rights of Transgenderism, a group with a large power and a relatively young new social movement that a large enough portion of society accept and want to see discrimination cease against. You would just be creating far more damage and setbacks towards acceptance and the view of government in society. It invoke more fury than ever in the LGBT communities and would make many people who are already suffering from discrimination and mental issues, feel even more stressed and alienated from their friends and modern society.


Generally speaking people don’t like having new social laws that deal in tolerating those that have historically been discriminated and treated like shit for decades revoked. This would feel like their progress is being stifled and be a huge blow in the face of society and rights for minors everywhere. Regardless of how you feel towards trans people and how long this movement will last, there will always be some kind of push for it no matter how bad things get and getting rid of any rights would be profoundly counter intuitive to everyone in that and society as a whole.

TLR: Even if you are true and you get what you want, an end to the appeal of transgenderism as an idea and to have society stop having support to their interests and goals, that won’t necessarily spell good news for everyone and could make things much, much worse. Your needs and wishes to not represent the main wishes of society as a whole. Stop playing God and acting like you know what’s right for everyone. That is all.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

LGB are not T.
T is on its own. We're kicking T out.
Q is a slur, which you can't have either. We'll be taking it with us.

What you perceive as powerful allies are actually those who desire to profit from selling you surgeries and hormones. They're not protecting you. They're protecting the profit they stand to make off your delusions.

T is on its own. There is no LGBT anymore, because T is on its own.

 

[Full Body Terfgasm]

The sexual revolution of the 60s was a mistake

AIDS should have been allowed to run its course.

 

[Marvin]

And to your point of saying that the general public support trans less the more they understand it, that is simply not true, rather it’s the reverse. More and more schools, scientists, people in all fields of Phychology and mental health Research are starting to implement more and more time into studying and analysing the layers of gender dysphoria and those that have it. To gain a better understanding and help develop and improve the study so it can hopefully be understood better in modern society.

You should look into the medical situation a bit more closely.

So to start with, psychological study into the cause of and best course of treatment for gender dysphoria is informally banned in anglo countries. "Affirmation only" (ie if a kid says they're trans, they're trans, end of story) is the standard for entirely political reasons. Ethics boards in anglo countries generally won't approve publishing new studies that point out its flaws.

Again, these aren't powerless lolcows, this is the actual medical establishment.

The thing is, when studies do manage to get published on these issues, they show some serious flaws in the affirmation only approach. So, for example, there's data that shows that the vast majority of gender dysphoric youths recover from GD just by growing up through their natural puberty. Other ones show that these kids often have confounding issues that are never addressed (autism spectrum disorders, histories of sexual abuse, etc) before hamfistedly pumping them full of drugs.

On the surface, it seems like all the big medical organizations are in support of this, like the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, American College of Pediatrics, etc, but if you look closely, you'll see they all have something in common: none of them make any recommendations themselves, but actually they all defer to an organization called WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health).

WPATH is supposed to be a specialist medical organization, which makes sense. Like they would also defer to an ostopathic org if bone issues came up. But what's different about WPATH is that it's not actually a medical organization, it's a lobbying group for trans activists. It has doctors as members, but also lawyers, activists, even estheticians, all with full voting rights.

General practitioners dodge professional liability by saying "oh, ask WPATH, I'm not a tranny doc", except WPATH is not a doctor's org.

Thing is, the actual experts on the subject themselves are starting to get nervous. This is a big, horrible, failed experiment.

So, to start off, I have to admire Scandinavia at least a little with this. They started a lot of the pioneering science with hormone blockers, which was pretty awful, but they're realizing it has been a huge mistake. So they've rolled everything back and admitted it has been a huge mistake. They have banned puberty blockers and cross sex hormones for young minors. There hasn't been a huge outcry about this (perhaps a small one, but not a huge one). They recognize the science, they fucked up, and they're fixing it. Fair enough. (Although it was easier for them because they didn't go whole hog with it like we did, so idk)

But even beyond Scandinavia, trans doctors in the US and the UK are starting to roll things back as well. This is shocking because they'll absolutely be crucified by the tranny lobby for it.

Like Marci Bowers, the trans surgeon for Jazz Jennings, is coming out against puberty blockers and other early interventions.

Or in the UK, doctors working with trans kids are dropping like flies.

You know what this is? This is rats fleeing a sinking ship.

They know the evidence doesn't support the claims. They know they've been horribly medically negligent to some sexually confused kids, who really just needed some talk therapy. They're trying to get ahead of the wave before the lawsuits start.

Banning it or completely repealing Trans rights or limiting sex change surgeries would be an unbelievably difficult, near impossible task that would lead to further vitriol, instability and further demoralisation of the public and LGBT communities.

You should look into the detrans community.

They're a lot of people who've been permitted to undergo trans surgeries without proper therapy. They have their genitals chopped up, their bodies permanently altered by drugs, without so much as a conversation about the origin of their gender identity issues.

Gay bashing people from a 90's era lifetime movie are a red herring. People who watch too much tv think that's where the opposition comes from.

The real force pushing for better regulation on trans surgeries will come from people and their families who've been horribly harmed by irresponsible doctors and the medical establishment.

Again, it's the lobotomy of this generation.

 

[thegooddoctor]

@Marvin I agree with some of your points legitimately, I do know and acknowledge their are big problems with these people, the community suffers from a huge amount of social problems, sexual deviancy and hate crimes, the Transgender community is far from perfect, I get it. They are nowhere near as Left leaning and accepting as they claim to be, and many of them are indeed sexual deviants, narcissists and sometimes flat out Psychopaths . Many of them are programmed to be extremely entitled and do push their gay into everyone’s faces and make life difficult for straight people.

But even then, there are still many not like this, genuinely gender confused children or teens who just feel they were born into the wrong body and want to do something to change their situation, they didn’t ask for this, they didn’t mean to be born this way. They were just unlucky in the genetic lottery, they don’t want to shove their sexuality into peoples faces and be entitled cunts who make transgenderism an excuse to do whatever they want without anyone saying no to their wishes as they step on societies toes. No, they are just misunderstood decent people and are trying to live their lives as best they can and hope society will accept them for who they are inside. I know that sounds incredibly corny and cliche, but it really is as simple as that.

The main issue I have with limiting transgender rights and general laws on transitioning is because where does it go from there? If we are to revoke laws that have made it possible for many people who feel genuinely uncomfortable being born as the sex they are, what does that mean for the rest of The Gay community? If we repeal laws for trans than this may inspire the government to limit further laws extending not just to trans but Gays and the entire LGBT community as a whole. People might start to show animosity to gays again even further, limiting gays to show less public affection and even the removal of Gay marriage rights in the US and possibly worse.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t necessarily limit or set up any rules regarding gender reassignment surgeries, I too do think there are too many non- binary teens who are too eager to bounce on the trans train and make life altering decisions that they may later regret immensely later on. But removal of any and all support for people who feel like they experience gender Dysphoria and banning sex change surgeries outright would be a ludicrous and impossible task that would never be allowed anyway, so arguing against its existence is a fruitless task anyway.

Anyway the overall point I want to make is that I just don’t agree with how people here seem to want to hate and mock the very concept of transgenderism itself. Making fun of sexual deviants and egotistical freaks in the LGBT community who use their status to be profoundly stupid and ruin things for everybody around them I get it, these people are clearly just attention seeking douches who should be rightly mocked. But I don’t like the rhetoric insisted here that just because the vast majority of cases taht kiwis here seem to see are like that, seems to somehow imply that all Trans people are degenerates like this. It’s so stupid and seemingly ignorant of the fact that all parts of the LGBT communities, including gays, bisexuals, non binary and polysexuals can all be just as bad if not worse in their deviant ways.

Ultimately I do get what the point of this site is, mocking lolcows and stupid degenerate communities is fun and rightly enforced most of the time, we are mocking people who are egotistical, stupid, selfish, and those that wrap themselves up in an of self-righteousness. That I can understand, because the internet is a cynical and mean place and all humour is mainly derived from deflating egotism from those with a misplaced faith in there own intelligence, image and abilities.

But mocking someone for a condition that they didn’t CHOOSE like transgenderism. Just because it feels alien to you and a large portion of people have sullied your opinion of them due to a few acts of stupidity, egotism and degenerate behaviour is just honestly stupid and cruel. You are welcome to mock people if they willingly choose to be narcissistic selfish sexual deviants who make transgenderism their only focus in life as they force their beliefs into others with little regard for peoples interests or happiness. But when you start branding the very concept of Transpeople itself as inherently wrong or sinful because of them, and not even entertaining the notion that there are indeed ‘good’ normal transgender people in society who just want to fit in and don’t want to force others to worship them. That in itself is stupid, wrong and just plain cruel.

What you are doing mocking people for a condition that they had no choice in, is really no different from the freak shows of the Late Victorian era, putting people like Joseph Merrick in cages and mocking them, making there lives a living hell just because they were born differently than us. Make fun of the stupid and self righteous all you want, but don’t automatically hate or discredit the very concept of trans because of a few very bad examples that have ruined them as a whole. Your views are not everyone else’s thank you.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

The main issue I have with limiting transgender rights and general laws on transitioning is because where does it go from there?

Slippery slope fallacy.

If we are to revoke laws that have made it possible for many people who feel genuinely uncomfortable being born as the sex they are, what does that mean for the rest of The Gay community?

Gay means homosexuals. Trannies are not in the "gay community." They're their own thing: the tranny community.

If we repeal laws for trans than this may inspire the government to limit further laws extending not just to trans but Gays and the entire LGBT community as a whole.

We kicked T out. There isn't an LGBT. Stop using LGB to shield T. We're not your shield.

People might start to show animosity to gays again even further, limiting gays to show less public affection and even the removal of Gay marriage rights in the US and possibly worse.

Gays and lesbians are not your shield. Make your argument without us. We can stand without T, so T needs to stand on its own.

But mocking someone for a condition that they didn’t CHOOSE like transgenderism.

They are however choosing to have surgeries and hormones, and choosing to live a lie that they're the opposite sex. People don't choose to think they're Napoleon, but they might choose to dress, act and have surgeries and hrt done to bring them closer to the Napoleonic ideal that's in their head. This isn't even a strawman, because it's happening with Oli London.

What you are doing mocking people for a condition that they had no choice in

A bald man doesn't have much choice about his hair. He can make choices to get fitter and dress better, to make the most of what he has. Or he could remain upset and bitter, and choose to transition to a man in a dress and a wig and call everyone who made fun of his hairpiece bigots.

Make fun of the stupid and self righteous all you want, but don’t automatically hate or discredit the very concept of trans because of a few very bad examples that have ruined them as a whole.

Blaire White is one of the 'good ones' and he's still a man. We hate the concept of trans because trans is discredited. It's the lobotomy of our time. You can't make a woman by starting with a man and making changes. You can't make a man by starting with a woman and making changes. Transwomen are just cut up men. Transmen are just cut up women.

Your views are not everyone else’s thank you.

That's a two way street.

 

[thegooddoctor]

Slippery slope fallacy.

Gay means homosexuals. Trannies are not in the "gay community." They're their own thing: the tranny community.

We kicked T out. There isn't an LGBT. Stop using LGB to shield T. We're not your shield.

Gays and lesbians are not your shield. Make your argument without us. We can stand without T, so T needs to stand on its own.

They are however choosing to have surgeries and hormones, and choosing to live a lie that they're the opposite sex. People don't choose to think they're Napoleon, but they might choose to dress, act and have surgeries and hrt done to bring them closer to the Napoleonic ideal that's in their head. This isn't even a strawman, because it's happening with Oli London.

A bald man doesn't have much choice about his hair. He can make choices to get fitter and dress better, to make the most of what he has. Or he could remain upset and bitter, and choose to transition to a man in a dress and a wig and call everyone who made fun of his hairpiece bigots.

Blaire White is one of the 'good ones' and he's still a man. We hate the concept of trans because trans is discredited. It's the lobotomy of our time. You can't make a woman by starting with a man and making changes. You can't make a man by starting with a woman and making changes. Transwomen are just cut up men. Transmen are just cut up women.

That's a two way street.

Irregardless of all of This, we cannot and never will be able to control peoples natural thoughts and feeling towards a particular field or idea. Transgenderism that proves to be a legitimate phycological problem for some could be treated in more extreme cases. Sex therapy and counselling by professional intervention could lead to a person feeling happier and more acceptance of the gender they are, but even then it is just a management of the issue. Not a ‘cure’ as you seem to wish there was.

There will always be people born who feel they are outsiders to their own gender, those who don’t fit in, those who feel uncomfortable in their genders, body issues and a reluctance to confirm to their societies views of gendered or ‘normal’ behaviour for someone of their sex. It’s only natural, the fact that you think that this can one day be cured, through endless anti-transgender crusades or discouraging laws that allow trans rights or attempts to medicate and use therapies to ‘wash out’ any gender issue’s people may ever feel. Is completely ludicrous and will do nothing to stop more trans people from being born even if you indoctrinated the entire Trans community.

Also stop using that LGB expression like it’ll ever be a thing, LGBTQ is what it’s been for years and your insistence on its removal is childish and stupid. Cut it out and stop acting like it means a damn thing.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

Irregardless of all of This, we cannot and never will be able to control peoples natural thoughts and feeling towards a particular field or idea. Transgenderism that proves to be a legitimate phycological problem for some could be treated in more extreme cases. Sex therapy and counselling by professional intervention could lead to a person feeling happier and more acceptance of the gender they are, but even then it is just a management of the issue. Not a ‘cure’ as you seem to wish there was.

I don't care about any cure. I'm saying trannies don't get to make societal changes for everyone else, like males entering female single sex spaces, or heterosexual males who mutilate themselves and go around saying they're lesbian.

There will always be people born who feel they are outsiders to their own gender, those who don’t fit in, those who feel uncomfortable in their genders, body issues and a reluctance to confirm to their societies views of gendered or ‘normal’ behaviour for someone of their sex. It’s only natural, the fact that you think that this can one day be cured, through endless anti-transgender crusades or discouraging laws that allow trans rights or attempts to medicate and use therapies to ‘wash out’ any gender issue’s people may ever feel. Is completely ludicrous and will do nothing to stop more trans people from being born even if you indoctrinated the entire Trans community.

Trans people are not born. Trans is an extreme body modification lifestyle. Transmen are no more men than Stalking Cat was a tigress. People "uncomfortable with their gender" are not entitled to mutilate themselves and impose their delusion onto others.

Also stop using that LGB expression like it’ll ever be a thing, LGBTQ is what it’s been for years and your insistence on its removal is childish and stupid. Cut it out and stop acting like it means a damn thing.

LGB were before T, and Q was always ours, because it was always thrown at us. T is on its own. And if you're a "transbian" you're a heterosexual male. That means you're not even in LGB, just T. You'll have to stand for your own rights. You're cut off.

 

[UtadaWasabi2]

I have the feeling that these posts should belong to general transgender discussion thread.

 

[Marvin]

But even then, there are still many not like this, genuinely gender confused children or teens who just feel they were born into the wrong body and want to do something to change their situation, they didn’t ask for this, they didn’t mean to be born this way. They were just unlucky in the genetic lottery, they don’t want to shove their sexuality into peoples faces and be entitled cunts who make transgenderism an excuse to do whatever they want without anyone saying no to their wishes as they step on societies toes. No, they are just misunderstood decent people and are trying to live their lives as best they can and hope society will accept them for who they are inside. I know that sounds incredibly corny and cliche, but it really is as simple as that.

Anyway the overall point I want to make is that I just don’t agree with how people here seem to want to hate and mock the very concept of transgenderism itself.

But mocking someone for a condition that they didn’t CHOOSE like transgenderism.

I'm not approaching this from an interpersonal perspective. I'm approaching this from a medical perspective.

You're treating the legitimacy of transgenderism as a foregone conclusion. But as a concept, medically, it's way more controversial than you give it credit for.

We should get our definitions clear:

• sex - one of two reproductive roles that many species develop around. In most species, including all mammals (so humans, but also horses, dogs, cats, etc), the sexes are male and female. Sex is fixed and strictly binary, not bimodal.
• sex based characteristics - various bodily characteristics that are, in whole or in part, influenced by sex. It should be noted that sex characteristics (like the presence of a penis) flows downhill from sex, not vice versa.
• gender - social roles influenced by sex. In English speaking countries, man (or boy) and woman (or girl).
• gender dysphoria - a psychological discomfort with one's gender role in society
• sexual orientation - an individual is sexually attracted at least to one or both sexes. Most people are naturally sexually attracted to the opposite sex, but homosexuality (males attracted to males; females to females) and bisexuality have been fairly persistent, but stable minorities in humans for a long time, across all cultures.
• transgenderism - a more political belief that gender is strongly innate, caused by something other than social roles

Now, gender dysphoria is almost certainly a real thing. However, there's no good evidence it's innate to humans or caused by biological things.

There's good evidence it's entirely psychological. So like childhood trauma and things like that.

Or also, there's a strong correlation between ordinary homosexuality, and gender dysphoria. People feel uncomfortable being gay and feel better coopting gender roles of the opposite sex.

All of this up to this point is pretty well supported and understood.

What's debatable is transgenderism. In transgenderism, gender is more than just a superficial social construct. It's more like sex, with serious biological causes that we can't easily change. Like sex, but next to it.

Here's the important part: there's no scientific evidence for that claim.

It's pseudoscience. And it's incredibly dangerous pseudoscience. Like anti-vaxxer tier pseudoscience.

I'm dead serious about this. Every time a trans person brings up a new study, I legitimately try to understand it. If there were some psychological difference that justifies transgenderism, that would really be interesting. I'm genuinely interested in this topic. But the devil's in the details. There's always little fuckups, glossed over by a lot of political power.

So for example, for awhile trans activists pushed this brain scan study that showed (in some minor areas, but whatever) that some transwomen's brains were a little more towards the middle of the brain sex spectrum (brains differ a lot more between different ethnic groups than between the sexes, and with such a small sample, it was a bullshit study to begin with, but whatever...), but one critical thing they failed to control for was the sexuality of the participants.

All of the transwomen in the study were homosexual males. In fact, cis identifying homosexual males (so, gay men who say they're men) have the same patterns.

EVERY bit of tranny evidence is like this. They all fall apart with a bit of scrutiny.

It is unethical for the medical system to endorse transgenderism until they can incorporate it into the wider body of evidence based medicine.

Until then, gender dysphoria is just another condition like other types of body dysmorphia, like anorexia or BIID. None of which we treat with physical interventions. No one's giving liposuction to anorexics.

Medically, evidence wise, all three (BIID, gender dysphoria and anorexia) have the same level of legitimacy and same proposed treatments.

And like I mentioned above, other medical groups are coming to these same conclusions. Lefty, SJW-ey Scandinavia is looking into these issues as well. And they've massively scaled back their gender clinics, explicitly because the evidence base simply doesn't exist.

They have a different culture than we do when it comes to these things, so they don't have the absurd social media outcry and suppression of the science that we do. So it's gone fairly quietly there; the (lack of) evidence there speaks for itself.

This isn't the first time science has been coopted by politics / hysteria either. In the US in the 80's and 90's, there was a huge panic about recovered memories. Shrinks (mostly unintentionally) implanted all sorts of absurd, false memories in patients. People went to jail because kids remembered molestation that provably never happened.

(Now, I'm not making a 1:1 comparison, claiming that trans people are lying or that shrinks are falsifying their claims. Just making a vague comparison about the malleability of human minds and the need for actual evidence.)

I think that, out of the millions of people claiming a transgender identity in the United States right now, there are probably a few dozen thousand that have cases that cannot be actually cured with ordinary psychotherapy. Those are probably very interesting cases.

But we do not have the evidence base to suspend normal medical procedures for everyone else for those few thousand. This cannot continue. (And, in fact, will not continue, as the many legislatures in the US now passing bills to rein this shit in.)

But I don’t like the rhetoric insisted here that just because the vast majority of cases taht kiwis here seem to see are like that, seems to somehow imply that all Trans people are degenerates like this. It’s so stupid and seemingly ignorant of the fact that all parts of the LGBT communities, including gays, bisexuals, non binary and polysexuals can all be just as bad if not worse in their deviant ways.

I do think that terfs can go a bit far in demonizing trans people. In particular, they can be too generous to transmen and too hard on transwomen.

I think that there are real psychological issues at play, even with transwomen. I think autogynephilia is real, and while it's a funny joke sometimes (a man in a dress is almost always funny), some people really do suffer from it. It can fuck their lives up.

But still, a non-passing transwoman going into a women's bathroom is still a shithead. And there's plenty of such shitheads out there. In fact, I would say that the community's failure to police the shitheads for their negative behavior, while still exploiting them for their positive successes in activism, is something the whole trans community is responsible for.

But for all the non-shitheads (they do exist), those transwomen are quietly suffering with their issues (whether they're paraphilic or just more general gender dysphoria) regardless. I think there can be more sympathy for these people with their psychological issues.

 

[Wyciwe]

Nobody wants to go back to the days of gays being treated like absolute shit enduring decades of abuse, social ostracisation from friends and family, and sometimes even paying with their lives.

You retarded retard, the only people more homophobic than trannies are the people pushing for that. No one but trannies and "typical" homophobes have a problem with gay men being gay and lesbians being lesbian. You rally behind a cause you don't know the basic tenets of. I know your retarded response will be "well not all trannies are homophobic assholes!!!" who gives a fuck. These freaks have brought back the idea that gay people are just pointlessly picky about who we want to date.

What is happening now with Trans culture is the same thing that happened with the Gay revolution in 60s and 70s.

The fuck it is. Gay people didn't, and don't, require any outside validation to be gay. The issue was outside factors making our lives difficult or dangerous. People can say they disagree with homosexuality but, like you, that's retarded. Hating same sex activity isn't gonna stop it from being phycially possible. I can touch dongs with another dude, neither of us is ever gonna be a woman.

Albeit fifty years later and people with far bigger hurdles to overcome.

Bigger hurdles like their desires being unreachable.. No matter how much a tranny is supported or hated they will never actually be the opposite sex.

You may hate them now but I tell you in another quarter century or so people will be looking back at us and shocked at how bigoted and intolerant we were to something like transgenderism

Again with the "muh right side of history". No one who supported electroshocking gay men and lesbians lived to see their comeuppance. They were reduced to a footnote in how vile history could be, like you will be.

in the same way we look back at gay bashing world of the 1950s and laugh at how narrow minded society was.

"Gay men are degenerate penis obsessed faggots who should be killed"

Who said it tranny or southern pastor? Add cis to make it even more authentic.

Thai is all just what happens in process of social change, there is huge controversy, bitching and vitriol from people like you saying it’s wrong, immoral and disgusting.

You don't have the capability to consider if what you support is the right idea eh? The only thing is someone old you its "right"

But complain all you want,

Can do

Thai is the push society is heading and your issues with it don’t matter a damn, the left are going to win either way.

Lol k

there will always be people born who feel they are outsiders to their own gender, those who don’t fit in,

Wow its almost like changing how society deals with gender non conformity would be the solution. Wow its almost like chopping people apart for societal based problems is what monsters do?

Also stop using that LGB expression like it’ll ever be a thing, LGBTQ is what it’s been for years and your insistence on its removal is childish and stupid. Cut it out and stop acting like it means a damn thing.

Cry about it, trannies are getting the boot. They're either so internally homophobic that mutilating themselves to pretend they're the opposite sex is more palatable to them than just being gay and therefore pathetic and vile, or they're perverts, and therefore pathetic and vile.

Anywho Marvin already told you why your stances are tarded, will you internalize that and stop? Probably not, but at the least you should pull your head from you hole and get over the fact that people on the left hate trannies for leftists ideals, such as its ok to be gay (genital preferences amirite?) and woman are people (not sissy sluts who crave subjugation).

 

[Isaac]

Nobody wants to go back to the days of gays being treated like absolute shit enduring decades of abuse, social ostracisation from friends and family, and sometimes even paying with their lives.

I mean, I do?

As for how to improve the health of transgender people; reclassify it as a mental illness, ban hormone pills, mutilation surgeries and fund gender acceptance therapy.