RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

[Random Internet Person]

There is an awful lot of potential for episodic story telling where the characters don't stay perpetually minors. Just follow team RWBY as they grow up, turn into adults, and eventually retire.

Wasn't that the plan Monty had? And what the show is actually doing?

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

Wasn't that the plan Monty had? And what the show is actually doing?

Maybe it was the plan Monty had, but that's certainly not what they are doing.

The entire point of episodic storytelling like this is that nothing serious ever changes. Beacon is still a thing. The kingdoms don't really fall, even if they are threatened. You deliver on the promise of cool adventures within this world that isn't all doom and gloom, while still being serious in its own way.

The way Beacon fell at the end of V3 was not status quo. Then there is the whole Atlas fiasco and the way Team RWBY is fucking the world up for everyone.

Considering how RWBY was structured in the beginning, having an apocalypse as a plot point was an unmitigated mistake. When you lie to your audience the way Roosterteeth did, you get the audience pissed at you.

People were promised happiness, fluff, and puppies, and they got them. Then V3 happened, and everyone involved turned into seething balls of trauma, rage, and stupidity.

Edit: I don't really know how to explain it because I plot by feel, but there are ways of foreshadowing stuff like this. Your tone needs to really suggest that these things can happen so the audience is okay with the shift, and you need to really foreshadow the right way so the audience knows its coming, and has time to get used to the idea. The tone in particular needs to be there from the start, or the audience will feel lied to. That tone was not there from the start. Someone from the writing team fucked up.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Edit: I don't really know how to explain it because I plot by feel, but there are ways of foreshadowing stuff like this. Your tone needs to really suggest that these things can happen so the audience is okay with the shift, and you need to really foreshadow the right way so the audience knows its coming, and has time to get used to the idea. The tone in particular needs to be there from the start, or the audience will feel lied to. That tone was not there from the start. Someone from the writing team fucked up.

Well, I think I know what happened. It’s called “the captain of the ship dying and throwing everything into chaos.”

Also, CJ hasn’t seen the last few pages.

 

[The Periodic Gamer]

Well, I think I know what happened. It’s called “the captain of the ship dying and throwing everything into chaos.”

Also, CJ hasn’t seen the last few pages.
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Problem is, Oum died in the middle of season three. The season aired two months after his death. There's no way everything wasn't written before he died. This has nothing to do with Oum dying. Someone fucked up, and honestly, my moneys on Oum.

Everyone says the dude was a massive spazz who'd make fight scenes and modify the plot because he could without any input from anyone else. Stories aren't supposed to be modified like that. You can't just rewrite stuff on the fly like that. Everything is too complex if your doing it right.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Honestly I don't think the idea of giving the show a 'mastermind' villain is a bad idea on paper. She just needs to be written consistently, that's where they always fuck up with Salem. Is she a kind, motherly, woman who is very open and generally kind to her subordinates in an attempt to subvert the evil witch archetype? Is she an intimidating manipulator? Is she a big scary lady who physically dominates and tortures everyone, keeping her own lackeys in line through fear and pain? Fuck if I know, the writers sure don't. Fixing Salem would be pretty easy, and I'll take anyone as the main villain over fucking Cinder.

I agree with you that there is a place for a smart mastermind pulling the strings, but I think that villain should be Cinder and that Salem in reductive to the series as a whole by making the Grimm into their own distinct faction rather than environmental obstacles. In fact I will outright state that the only reason Cinder never got a chance to shine was specifically because she was set up as a Big Bad and then was immediately sidelined as Salem's lieutenant, Cinder had the power, the contacts, the organization, the individual strength, and two loyal and powerful lieutenants of her own, she was prime Big Bad material and given the chance to have her own agency I think she would be an excellent character. There's no need to fix Salem since she wouldn't be there and now if you want to include her stable of goons you can do so with each of them being their own distinct entity with their own distinct connections organizations and goals befitting people of their individual strength and influence without making them second rate jobbers who work for a much bigger threat.

PS: This also means that threats like Tyrian, Hazel, and Watts could be brought in as Cinder level threats if Cinder starts to get a bit stale.

Honestly, after V1, I think you could say all of Team JNPR is weighing down the show and taking shit away from Team RWBY, not just Jaune. And each volume just adds more weight.

JNPR either needs to be relegated to very minor background characters or they need to be antagonists, something like rivals to Team RWBY who the main girls can clash with on an equal footing, making them into best chums with the main cast effectively doubles your number of protagonists and is the most blatant example of the series' terrible character bloat and how it happens.

Roman is a great recurring antagonist.

Cinder is great for the final boss.

And you can't forget that Cinder has two very capable and powerful underlings in Mercury and Emerald, who themselves could serve as a middle-tier threat between Neo/Roman and Cinder herself. You could even hold off on introducing Cinder until Volume 2 or 3 if you wanted by having Roman/Neo only ever interact with Mercury and Emerald and not mention Cinder until it's time to reveal the true woman behind the curtain and pull the rugs out from under the heroes once they finally think they have the measure of their enemy's strength and capabilities by sucker punching them with the True Final Boss.

Wasn't that the plan Monty had? And what the show is actually doing?

Maybe it was the plan Monty had, but that's certainly not what they are doing.

I know I've voiced my opinion on "Monty's Plan" here before but I think it bears repeating that Monty's Plan was never really known by anyone but Monty, and that's assuming that Monty had a plan and if he did have a plan he wasn't going to just retcon it into oblivion with on the spot changes that were going to fuck the rest of the production over. He was kinda notorious for that.

Problem is, Oum died in the middle of season three. The season aired two months after his death. There's no way everything wasn't written before he died. This has nothing to do with Oum dying. Someone fucked up, and honestly, my moneys on Oum.

Everyone says the dude was a massive spazz who'd make fight scenes and modify the plot because he could without any input from anyone else. Stories aren't supposed to be modified like that. You can't just rewrite stuff on the fly like that. Everything is too complex if your doing it right.

I should have scrolled down before writing that previous response since you said exactly what I was gonna say anyways.

 

[Chilson]

Well, I think I know what happened. It’s called “the captain of the ship dying and throwing everything into chaos.”

Its more "The captain was a bad captain, but his first mate who took over after his death was worse" situation.

 

[Random Internet Person]

You could even hold off on introducing Cinder until Volume 2 or 3 if you wanted by having Roman/Neo only ever interact with Mercury and Emerald and not mention Cinder until it's time to reveal the true woman behind the curtain and pull the rugs out from under the heroes once they finally think they have the measure of their enemy's strength and capabilities by sucker punching them with the True Final Boss.

Didn't the Beacon arc...kind of already do that? Cinder only really came in and strutted her stuff in earnest with V3.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Didn't the Beacon arc...kind of already do that? Cinder only really came in and strutted her stuff in earnest with V3.

Yeah kinda, but we still knew that Cinder was the true enemy as soon as Volume 1 was over since she was in the dropship at the end of the dock fight. I'm saying keep it concealed from the audience as well by making her work purely through intermediaries.

 

[Skipjack]

Well, I think I know what happened. It’s called “the captain of the ship dying and throwing everything into chaos.”

Also, CJ hasn’t seen the last few pages.
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"Could it be that the rewrites are all written by talentless spergs? No, it's the RWBY stans who hate this."

 

[Fougaro]

I finally caught up.

@Rhymes 19 First of all thank you for sharing all of this. I never thought I would encounter someone with an unhealthier obsession with lesbians than Andrew Dobson, but here we are. What a ride indeed. I will at the next convenience include the RWBY re-write autists in the OP, most likely by re-writing the FNDM section. Though some people have the correct idea by giving Celtic Phoenix his own thread.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I finally caught up.

@Rhymes 19 First of all thank you for sharing all of this. I never thought I would encounter someone with an unhealthier obsession with lesbians than Andrew Dobson, but here we are. What a ride indeed. I will at the next convenience include the RWBY re-write autists in the OP, most likely by re-writing the FNDM section. Though some people have the correct idea by giving Celtic Phoenix his own thread.

The issue with a thread for Celtic is that the guy's pretty milquetoast on all his public channels, sure he's a shit writer and a sped but those are a dime a million on the internet, most of the shit we have on him and the rest of the Sketchy Huntsmen are run of the mill questionable Twitter posts and internet slap fights which I don't think would make for a great thread, short of a major meltdown I don't think they have enough to produce quality milk.

EDIT: Most of the shit we have on the Sketchy Huntsmen and Celtic that aren't from private Discords and DMs are run of the mill Twitter and internet drama shit which isn't all that interesting on it's own, we'd effectively need a mole to keep that thread going and that's gonna be unreliable.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

So did the show ever become good?

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

So did the show ever become good?

no

 

[Fougaro]

So did the show ever become good?

It became a good cautionary tale.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

So did the show ever become good?

It became a good cautionary tale.

I had a bunch of friends who were like HYPER into the show and I was like "this looks very bad" and I walked away

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

no

I heard they made a side spin off show that almost became good on accident

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I heard they made a side spin off show that almost became good on accident

They made two that I'm aware of, RWBY Chibi was alright but it was a skit show composed of bite sized sub-minute long skits ala Robot Chicken but less vulgar. It was alright. And then they made one called RWBY Legends or RWBY Fairytales or some shit like that, I have not seen anyone say a single good thing about it.

 

[Rhymes 19]

I finally caught up.

@Rhymes 19 First of all thank you for sharing all of this. I never thought I would encounter someone with an unhealthier obsession with lesbians than Andrew Dobson, but here we are. What a ride indeed. I will at the next convenience include the RWBY re-write autists in the OP, most likely by re-writing the FNDM section. Though some people have the correct idea by giving Celtic Phoenix his own thread.

Thank you for giving me the platform to share. I really needed somewhere to share my experience that wasn't going to blow up. This has been very vindicating and feels like a weight off my chest.

In regards to your last sentence, you'd be more likely to find consistent content if you looked at the rewriters/critics as a whole. Sleazy is right that we'd need a mole to keep things going for just Celtic, which for FRWBY would require someone to be willing to draw a ton of stuff for free, or befriending someone who's already in the project. But between him, Fatman, Dashie Li, Freeman, the Remnants project, etc, you'd probably find some good stuff.

EDIT: For example, that CJ guy:

RWBY Critics tend to... be these types, I've noticed.

 

[Mega Black]

Congratulations, you just described Volumes 1 and 2. Or at least what was attempted back then.

Yeah, and that's my point. It should have stayed that way.

Salem puts you into territory where you are no longer dealing with the small scale. Fate of the world is a really shitty stake because you can't get the audience attached to it even if they agree with it in a general sense. Then you add in the whole "the grim don't need to have a master" thing, and your looking at redoing her appearance, backstory, and characterization at the bare minimum.

I can see your point but, honestly, I don't necessarily agree. You could change Salem's overall goal and wouldn't have to nix her entirely. Keeping up with the earlier Teen Titans comparisons, that show was able to have Slade work in the background of much of the show as a consistent, shadowy, threat and have it work -- even with it being a mostly episodic format. At this point we'd just be arguing hypotheticals for directions a rewrite COULD go, and then we wouldn't be any better than the autismos making rewrites.

The issue with a thread for Celtic is that the guy's pretty milquetoast on all his public channels, sure he's a shit writer and a sped but those are a dime a million on the internet

Yeah, fun as it is to shit on the guy there's not much to really expose or keep a thread on. Even the anti-rwby spergs have kind of fallen off along with the show's popularity. If Celtic was producing more than the rewrites we could at least have fun shitting on his writing, but that won't happen anytime soon after he got put on blast for repackaging his lesbian loli fanfiction and selling it on Amazon.

but I think that villain should be Cinder and that Salem in reductive to the series as a whole by making the Grimm into their own distinct faction rather than environmental obstacles. In fact I will outright state that the only reason Cinder never got a chance to shine was specifically because she was set up as a Big Bad and then was immediately sidelined as Salem's lieutenant,

Can I be entirely honest and just say that I hate Cinder because her VA is shit? That's probably why I'm stuck on keeping anyone other than her as the 'main' villain. The less I have to hear her speak, the better. It's petty and shallow, I admit, but that's the truth of it.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Can I be entirely honest and just say that I hate Cinder because her VA is shit? That's probably why I'm stuck on keeping anyone other than her as the 'main' villain. The less I have to hear her speak, the better. It's petty and shallow, I admit, but that's the truth of it.

One of the biggest reasons that Neo is my favorite character is specifically because she has the best voice acting in the show, so I understand you perfectly.