Lolcow James Lloyd Evans / Lloyd Evans / John Cedars / The Reluctant Apostate / JWWatch / @cedarsjwsurvey - Self-appointed figurehead of ex-JWs, anti-sex abuse campaigner who spends his donations on hookers because he lacks "total mastery of his penis"

[Gig Bucking Fun]

Well there has definitely been no positive correspondence from me, but I have a feeling that someone involved in the school may be feeding them information. As for their house "visits", it was aimed at the children and much more specific than that with nothing that could be inferred from outside, but I can't explain more without revealing personal details so I'm just going to leave it at that and stop mucking up the thread. In conclusion, they creep me out, sorry.

Lol, no need to apologize. I understand the persistence of some can be overwhelming. Again, I cannot speak for others, but from personal experience, our congregation tends to leave those that react negatively alone.

 

[Glowie]

I didn't think that it was possible for a Britbong living in Croatia to threaten a lolsuit against an American. I learned something today.

Now I'm wondering how long it'll be until Lloyd has his own Take that off the god damn Internet thread.

When you're part of multi million cult that spans the globe there's no extent where cult members hound heathens for example.

Did you know Scientology of America went ahead and used ruination tactics on a cult expert from Finland, because she dared to study them as a cult and leak internal documents? When you have enough money backing you and fanatics backing you, there's nothing stopping you.

Just to recap, JWs have branches everywhere as well global watch tower publishing.

When any given cult feels threatened, ligititous actions, slander and libel campaigns. If that fails your pets will suffer spontaneous chocolate poisoning and breaks in your car stop working.

 

[BoomerSperg1922]

PL: I am a JW. AMA.

Someone mentioned JW membership numbers earlier, and as someone who's autistic hobby is demographic growth (or lack thereof) of racial and religious groups, I'm curious about JW membership and growth rates. It seems to be increasing, but the way they count it puzzles me. Apparently they call the people actively running around preaching "publishers" of which there are ~9 million, but attendance of the memorial is over twice as high - would you say memorial attendance is a much better gauge of JW membership than the amount of publishers?

Also, TFR - I know you can only speak anecdotally, but given how 'diverse' JWs are compared to other denominations (evangelicals are white, historically black protestants are... well, you can guess) would you say the average JW family has more or less children than their respective demographic groups?

Finally, retention. JW's have absolutely shit retention, but I find it isn't fair to compare them to other religious groups because something like 2/3rds of JWs are converts. Would you say (again, anecdotally) converts are more likely to leave the JWs than people born into it?

 

[Gig Bucking Fun]

Someone mentioned JW membership numbers earlier, and as someone who's autistic hobby is demographic growth (or lack thereof) of racial and religious groups, I'm curious about JW membership and growth rates. It seems to be increasing, but the way they count it puzzles me. Apparently they call the people actively running around preaching "publishers" of which there are ~9 million, but attendance of the memorial is over twice as high - would you say memorial attendance is a much better gauge of JW membership than the amount of publishers?

Also, TFR - I know you can only speak anecdotally, but given how 'diverse' JWs are compared to other denominations (evangelicals are white, historically black protestants are... well, you can guess) would you say the average JW family has more or less children than their respective demographic groups?

Finally, retention. JW's have absolutely shit retention, but I find it isn't fair to compare them to other religious groups because something like 2/3rds of JWs are converts. Would you say (again, anecdotally) converts are more likely to leave the JWs than people born into it?

1. Publisher rates are a much better way of gauging membership. Memorial attendance is always conflated with one-off visitors, or those who are only interested in attending the memorial. Publisher rates are not 100% accurate, but they are a much better gauge of true membership.

2. From what I’ve seen, people aren’t really forced or even encouraged into the traditional nuclear family structure. In fact, we’ve had various studies that focus on those who choose to remain single or married couples who choose to not have children. There isn’t much stigma surrounding those who decide not to pursue a future with a nuclear family. For this reason, we might have less children than other religions.

3. Honestly, I’ve seen more people born into the religion leave than I’ve seen converts go back. From those in my age range that I grew up with in the organization who were actually born into it, I’d say half of them have since either been excommunicated or have “gone cold turkey”. Also, I’d like to take this chance to emphasize how difficult it is to actually be excommunicated. I imagine people get the idea that the moment you slip, you’re out, but it’s honestly very hard to receive a judicial committee. The people that I know who have been excommunicated have broken severe rules for months, sometimes even years.

 

[Baloney Face]

... married couples who choose to not have children ...

... because Armageddon is so close, so why not wait until after?

They've been pulling that shtick off and on for over a century.

 

[Baloney Face]

Look what I found:

Key trope: "Branch Lloyd-vidians"

 

[Lucky Jim]

Evan Breen's "Hi I'm a Jehovah Witness" Vine predicted this

 

[Least Concern]

What is the context even of this video? Are they acting like they're being persecuted for being JWs? Are they saying it was rude to arrest this guy for X offense and they support him no matter what? I have many questions, this is hilarious.

It doesn't help that JWs are actually banned if not persecuted in some places. Here's an infographic I yoinked from this non-JW site:



Is it still a persecution complex if they really are being persecuted? Granted, the scenario shown in the video is not likely to happen anywhere in the western world, but still, it doesn't help that it's happening anywhere.

Judicial committees aren’t a very often occurrence at all. Usually, rank and file members of the congregation are given a warning at first and then censored if the problem persists. What constitutes a call for a judicial committee is pretty much at the discretion of the body of elders of said congregation. For example, I’ve heard of people that got caught smoking weed being censored, but there was another instance in a different congregation where someone who confessed to taking part in a threesome (a much more grave sin) was given the same punishment. Those that are excommunicated usually, from what I’ve seen, keep contact with immediate family (of course, this can definitely differ).

By "censored" did you mean to write "censured?" Either way, what does that entail exactly? Are they unable to do certain things?

 

[GunnlaugurSassoon]

I did a tiny bit of searching for the podcast episode I previously posted about being unable to find and found a thread on www.jehovas-witness.com that linked to it (https://archive.ph/a0hNw)

The episodes were titled "JW Podcast S05E01 Speak Out" and "S05E01 Speak Out Edited Version". There only seems to be one of the two episodes on Apple Podcasts (link: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/jw-community-podcast/id1352020805?i=1000403590038) I haven't had the time to listen, unfortunately, so I don't know if there's any interesting information (or if they're even entertaining at all). For some reason I've been completely unable to download the mp3 to archive it. I even finally gave in and downloaded iTunes for the first time in years and despite being able to listen to it through iTunes seems to not be on my computer at all. If anyone is less of an apparent boomer than me, I'd appreciate the hand archiving the episode.

The links to the episodes on podchaser which have the original descriptions but not the mp3s:
JW Podcast S05E01 Speak Out
S05E01 Speak Out Edited Version

EDIT:

Almost but not quite - British Israelism believers believe the Jews are indeed Jewish, but that the "ten lost tribes" (i.e. the descendants of the other sons of Israel that didn't become Jews and faded out of history) cruised over to Northern Europe. Brits are of Ephraim (Joseph's son), which would then extend to Americans too. Not sure if/how Manasseh fits

You've then got Nordic Israelism which emerged a little later as an add-on to the above. Finns are of Issachar (because the word for father in Finnish is Isa), Dan became the Danes and Icelanders are somehow connected to Benjamin for reasons I don't quite understand (also considering that in the bible itself the tribe of Benjamin splits from Israel with Judah to make the kingdom of Judaea, Benjaminites would have been absorbed into modern Jewry).

In the deeper theories of Black Hebrew Israelism, your tribe depends on where your ancestors were dumped as slaves in the Americas. Somehow if you originated from the same place in Africa but landed in the US vs landing in Jamaica you are two different tribes. I'm not sure how many BHI hold to this belief now. Pic 1 Pic 2

Honorable mention to the Mormon explanation of why there are native Americans - descendants of a bunch of Israelites who moved to America and turned against their God-fearing brethren. As punishment God turned their skin red from the previous "white and delightsome" (actual quote from the book of mormon that has since been revised to "pure and delightful" in the late 20th Century). Black people exist because they chose neutrality in the war between good and evil before being born on earth so that's their curse (those on team Jesus became white people. Satan's buddies became demons). Gross oversimplification, but they are now embarrassed by this theology and keep it on the down-low and show off how diverse their churches are. Here's a cute cartoon explaining it all, though I don't care to check how accurate it is.

I think there could be a genuinely interesting mini documentary series on the weird assed "we're a lost tribe of Israel" groups there are out there. One of my favourites is the weird groups who believe the Japanese are one of the lost tribes. I first found out about it after coming across the website of an insane ultra-religious Christian independent book publisher out of Japan that had books about how the Japanese are a lost tribe, but also here are our books about the Nanking Massacre is a lie!

 

[Hongourable Madisha]

Lloyd has received a hate message! (archive)
The replies are the funniest part really, people saying that being called a Ricky Gervais clone is hardly hatred, and then calling him much worse, while his fans say Ricky Gervais is an evil transphobic bigot and Lloyd should be even more offended than he is.

 

[Least Concern]

For some reason I've been completely unable to download the mp3 to archive it. I even finally gave in and downloaded iTunes for the first time in years and despite being able to listen to it through iTunes seems to not be on my computer at all. If anyone is less of an apparent boomer than me, I'd appreciate the hand archiving the episode.

gotchu fam

 

[Glowie]

It doesn't help that JWs are actually banned if not persecuted in some places. Here's an infographic I yoinked from this non-JW site:

View attachment 3059953

Is it still a persecution complex if they really are being persecuted? Granted, the scenario shown in the video is not likely to happen anywhere in the western world, but still, it doesn't help that it's happening anywhere.



By "censored" did you mean to write "censured?" Either way, what does that entail exactly? Are they unable to do certain things?

Chart shows that JWs aren't banned hard enough. JWs are banned in my house anything they sell will see "product isn't what is described" You can't have two masters, money and God. You will worship one and hate the other. JWs chose the former.

Even trolling teaches 101 easiest way to get attention is playing the victim.

 

[Yaks]

It doesn't help that JWs are actually banned if not persecuted in some places. Here's an infographic I yoinked from this non-JW site:

View attachment 3059953

Is it still a persecution complex if they really are being persecuted? Granted, the scenario shown in the video is not likely to happen anywhere in the western world, but still, it doesn't help that it's happening anywhere.



By "censored" did you mean to write "censured?" Either way, what does that entail exactly? Are they unable to do certain things?

These are also the same countries that all religions outside of the accepted (pretty much islam for most of them, but other factors are also in play and a few other religions, for example the CCP in China's platform is specifically anti-religion and atheist) are also persecuted, so its disingenuous to say it's specifically JWs like they make it out to be. Also the people making these are not in those countries and are perfectly fine in their practice aside from the odd person extra aggressive over them knocking on their door. So yeah I'd consider it a persecution complex.

EDIT: Russia seems to be the only outlier (but we know how they operate in general), but their reason for considering them an extremist group is cited as their evangelism and "Russian anti-extremism laws were extended to non-violent groups in 2007 and Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in the port city of Taganrog in 2009 after a local court ruled the organization guilty of inciting religious hatred by "propagating the exclusivity and supremacy" of their religious beliefs." These laws were originally set in place in regards to Muslim extremist groups, but the JWs got slapped hard because of their excessive evangelism.

 

[HunterHearstHelmsley]

You can't have two masters, money and God. You will worship one and hate the other. JWs chose the former.

I noticed an odd attitude towards money on the part of the publishers visiting me. I can’t remember how many times they assured me “and we don’t pass out a collection plate, like the CATHOLICS but if you want to donate there is a donation box at the rear of the room”. I’ve never felt pressured to donate money at a Catholic mass, this guy brought donating money up multiple times.

He told me earnestly how proud he is to pay his taxes. The Bible says rend unto Caesar, so he doesn’t even claim any deductions. This is a guy who pays next to nothing in the first place because he works part time, so that he can walk around in his Kmart suit every second day. What a joker.

 

[Glowie]

I noticed an odd attitude towards money on the part of the publishers visiting me. I can’t remember how many times they assured me “and we don’t pass out a collection plate, like the CATHOLICS but if you want to donate there is a donation box at the rear of the room”. I’ve never felt pressured to donate money at a Catholic mass, this guy brought donating money up multiple times.

He told me earnestly how proud he is to pay his taxes. The Bible says rend unto Caesar, so he doesn’t even claim any deductions. This is a guy who pays next to nothing in the first place because he works part time, so that he can walk around in his Kmart suit every second day. What a joker.

Protip recite Matthew 6:24 on faces of these people, point out the money goes to watch tower and JW upper hierarchy and say they worship mammon instead of god.

Enjoy the shit show in front of you, works on comment sections too where these losers gaslight you to do donate to get "free reading material"

I'm not a very good church goer, JW cultist or a charitable type when it comes to filling church coffers. I'd rather escort that smelly hobo around the corner for a hot coffee and buy him new shoes
Homeless > JW merchants
Support your fellow man, not MSM grifters, kids

 

[Yaks]

I noticed an odd attitude towards money on the part of the publishers visiting me. I can’t remember how many times they assured me “and we don’t pass out a collection plate, like the CATHOLICS but if you want to donate there is a donation box at the rear of the room”. I’ve never felt pressured to donate money at a Catholic mass, this guy brought donating money up multiple times.

He told me earnestly how proud he is to pay his taxes. The Bible says rend unto Caesar, so he doesn’t even claim any deductions. This is a guy who pays next to nothing in the first place because he works part time, so that he can walk around in his Kmart suit every second day. What a joker.

This is a pretty common talking point against Catholics amongst protestants. I wouldn't really consider it a JW exclusive.

 

[Hongourable Madisha]

Lloyd's blocked and unsubscribed from fellow British ex-JW YouTuber Harrison Cother (The Truth Hurts, decent channel, he seems like a nice kid, he has a bit of a stilted delivery from doing talks from the podium, but he's fun and informative). Lloyd had him on his channel before and used to donate to his Patreon but now he's cut him off.



Not the only one either. I liked this reply too.


Another disavowal from Sarah Davies, a CSA victim and campaigner who's also been on JW Watch.





Wonder what she meant by "more evidence to come out". Maybe the stuff from "Marko" or maybe something else?

ETA: Not sure if this has been posted yet, some more information about Lloyd's behaviour back when he was in England, before he moved to Croatia.

The Lloyd Evans Scandal: The missing years: Wilmslow & Bramhall​

There is few things to add to this story as have not been explained by anyone so far and this is the missing years from 2007 up to when John Cedars moved to Croatia, this account has come to my possession by someone who lives in the United Kingdom and knows well the people involved.

WHAT HAPPENED IN BRAMHALL:

The story begins in Wilmslow an affluent area in Cheshire, United Kingdom where John Cedars grew up.As a ministerial servant he showed no obvious potential to be qualified for an elders position but graduating from the MTS school and being a son of an elder earned him a quick appointment when he moved with his wife to Bramhall congregation. His initial interest to the young ones and especially young girls of the congregation was seen in a positive light at first but that didn't last .At the same time he was spending time online in chat rooms where he was looking to hook up with teenage girls for sex.It goes without saying how easy it is to expose young ones in any congregation to dangerous men like him and it clearly shows how flawed the Watchtower's policies are that are meant to protect its vulnerable members.

When the matter was exposed to the elders by his own wife a judicial Committee was formed.I don't know what happened in that committee but all I know is that on the aftermath 3 elders where stepped down in Bramhall.One can only assume that these elders refused to play ball with the Bethel's service department, more on Bethel's service department later.They wanted to take the matter further but the branch blackmailed them and when they refused to tow the line they were unceremoniously stepped down.There is more to say on that but there are others involved in that story that have since have moved on with their lives and it would be unfair to drag them into this drama, that is unless the police does this soon.So I would say the elders in Bramhall reacted as any parent would have, quick to protect their families and their young girls and not like company men for the Watchtower.The problem was that John Cedars father has been an elder for a long time and knows all the tricks in the book (*Shepherding thr Flock book that is) and how to play the game as you shall see.

WHAT HAPPENED IN WILMSLOW:

Without much of an explanation the judicial proceedings where transfered over to Wilmslow his hometown. John Cedars escaped to Wilmslow having first been stepped down in Bramhall. By delaying his statement to the elders he effectively prolonged the judicial process and gave himself valuable time to save himself. The judicial Committee was resumed in Wilmslow but with far more favourable panel of elders. First his father ,one of the most corrupt and disliked elders not only in the congregation but aso in the area , that has driven away many from the congregation over the years Then the other 2 most influential elders which are John Cedars' age.Both see John Cedars father as a father figure and totally controlled and manipulated by him.The co ordinator is John Cedars childhood friend and they literally grew up in each other's homes.Finally the hidden hand and the most influential player in this drama,Rick Fenton,a prominent elder at the service department at the UK Bethel and also John Cedars childhood friend.

Interestingly when John Cedars did a video about him 7 years ago he lied saying that Rick Fenton was in the public information office when in fact he was at the service department that deals with judicial committees and records .

As you can see with so many friends in all the right places the whole thing was quickly swept under the carpet in Wilmslow and John Cedars was advised to escape to Croatia to avoid the ongoing investigation in Bramhall and potential police investigation and criminal charges brought upon him while in the UK.

In other words the elders in Wilmslow covered the whole thing up while at the same time putting at risk all the young boys and girls in their own congregation for the shake of the Evans family.

If they had done the right thing and disfellowshiped him back then we wouldn't be here still talking about it 15 years later.

Who would have thought that the typical example of Watchtower's covering up sexual improprieties would end up being the no 1 advocate against these coverups, John Cedars.

Even better than a twist plot of a Hollywood movie .

 

[exjwaussie]

Lloyd's blocked and unsubscribed from fellow British ex-JW YouTuber Harrison Cother (The Truth Hurts, decent channel, he seems like a nice kid, he has a bit of a stilted delivery from doing talks from the podium, but he's fun and informative). Lloyd had him on his channel before and used to donate to his Patreon but now he's cut him off.

Wonder what she meant by "more evidence to come out". Maybe the stuff from "Marko" or maybe something else?

Some things haven't been picked up on. Just lurking and can fill in some gaps to the story. Some details have been confirmed by Kim in Cappytan's video. Others are what's going around.

The punter Lloyd was caught while at an atheist convention in Austin Tx. He was taking pictures with some random sheilas and uploading them to his cloud account. Being the horny boner he is, he didn't realize his iPad at home his wife uses was connected. She then found the pics and confronted him. He admitted to sleazing around on her and using prozzys in the past and in Tx (allegedly). So he demanded an open relationship from her. She first said yes, then got wise and decided against it. So of course he handled this with care and grace like a loving husband who was sorry would....

Nope, he instead blew a gasket and decided he needed to leave her and make her suffer in order to get what he wanted. So he claimed to his audience that he needed a "mental health" break and he fucked off to Thailand to party leaving his poor wife and kids at home. Rumor is he then bragged to a friend about seeing prozzys there and took a picture with the prozzy and shared it (could be wrong about the pic).

Once Kim came out with what she did, he panicked got drunk and live-streamed his career into the shitcan. There are also rumors there's evidence he has been verbally and emotionally abusive to his wife and gaslighting her over the last couple of years.

That's the rumor mill in the exJW circles.

 

[Yaks]

It won't let me quote you, but that's a pretty good explanation for why he ended up in Croatia and seems to link some things he admitted himself together. As for the "more evidence to come out", I think she might just be speculating that people are holding on to evidence of certain claims, not that she actually knows of said hidden evidence. I could be wrong though.

I feel bad for his wife. She seems the "stick with it for the family" sort of lady, which ultimately means everything he does she'll end up going down with him socially and economically.

 

[Echo_Ender]

While I cannot speak for every congregation, it is customary to receive tracts in the mail after the receiver has reacted positively to the idea of opening a correspondence. I’ve personally never seen an occurrence where tracts have been sent out before receiving some sort of approval.

As for the witnesses showing up to your home with tracts aimed at you, when we went IRL witnessing we’d carry a variety of tracts that cover a range of topics to relate to the homeowner. For example, toys outside of the house will signal that you have a family, so they’ll pull out whatever tract they have that talks about family.

They like to also bring kids along so they can pull the "Go play with little Timmy while mommy talks to the nice lady" thing. And the kids will start trying to Jehova-talk to the kids without the parents listening in.

I must've seen these sorts of tactics a few dozen times when I lived in a less rural area. Hell, they even produce their own Children's Shows for the kiddie-brainwashing. Look up Caleb and Sophia.

They're second only to Mormons in my "Insidious brainwashing cults" book.