The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[snailslime]

I'm not super militant on the issue, but I do find it fascinating how many logical inconsistencies there are from people on the issue.

I think most people recognize that there is a difference between the morning after pill, and aborting a fetus at 40 weeks. That means there is a line, somewhere in the middle of those two extremes, where the majority of people no longer support abortion, and another line earlier in the pregnancy where the majority of people do.

What's interesting is this also means there is not only a group of people who never support abortion (for moral reasons) AND a large group of people who are ok with abortion all the way up to day of delivery. I've always wanted to have one of those people explain how that is anything other than infanticide.

On the other side of the argument, there are people who are against abortion except in the case of rape or incest, why? If you think abortion is murder, how do you justify making these exceptions? Would you also extend that exemption to letting a mother murder her 3 year that she finds out was really the result of a rape? If not, why not? If you view a fetus as the same thing as a child, then you can't logically accept one and not the other.

In fact the only argument on either side that seems based in logic is exceptions due to risk for the mothers life.

i'm pretty sure 90% of pro-choice people don't support abortion past the 22nd week, approximately when the baby begins to develop the ability to feel pain.

a lot of pro-lifers also aren't really pro-life, they just want the government to be able to control women's bodies.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

i'm pretty sure 90% of pro-choice people don't support abortion past the 22nd week, approximately when the baby begins to develop the ability to feel pain.

You think 90% of pro-choice people support regulations on whether or not they are allowed to have an abortion? What do they mean by "my body my choice" then?

 

[Freya]

I'm not super militant on the issue, but I do find it fascinating how many logical inconsistencies there are from people on the issue.

I think most people recognize that there is a difference between the morning after pill, and aborting a fetus at 40 weeks. That means there is a line, somewhere in the middle of those two extremes, where the majority of people no longer support abortion, and another line earlier in the pregnancy where the majority of people do.

What's interesting is this also means there is not only a group of people who never support abortion (for moral reasons) BUT ALSO a large group of people who are ok with abortion all the way up to day of delivery. I've always wanted to have one of those people explain how that is anything other than infanticide. And if you support abortion in general, but not at 40 weeks, then that means by definition you support regulating abortions.

On the other side of the argument, there are people who are against abortion except in the case of rape or incest, why? If you think abortion is murder, how do you justify making these exceptions? Would you also extend that exception to letting a mother murder her 3 year old that she finds out was really the result of a rape? If not, why not? If you view a fetus as the same thing as a child, then you can't logically accept one and not the other.

In fact the only argument on either side that seems based in logic is exceptions due to risk for the mothers life.

Anti choicers love to extrapolate and distract but "when does it become" is a non issue.

The vast majority of women get them in the first trimester. There's maybe a DOZEN late term abortions performed in the US a year and those are all wanted children that had a serious issue.

A month old pregnancy isn't even vaguely in the same league of development as a newborn let alone a 3 year old and its fucking absurd to pretend otherwise.

All this comes down to is moids being pissed off women can "get away" with having sex unpunished. And putting a fucking embryo over the well being of someone that actually exists

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Anti choicers love to extrapolate and distract but "when does it become" is a non issue.

The vast majority of women get them in the first trimester. There's maybe a DOZEN late term abortions performed in the US a year and those are all wanted children that had a serious issue.

A month old pregnancy isn't even vaguely in the same league of development as a newborn let alone a 3 year old and its fucking absurd to pretend otherwise.

All this comes down to is moids being pissed off women can "get away" with having sex unpunished. And putting a fucking embryo over the well being of someone that actually exists

If this is true, then does that mean that you fully support laws then that prevent abortions from happening that late in the pregnancy, as long as there is an exception if the life of the mother or fetus are likely in jeopardy?

If yes, where would you be comfortable with that line being drawn? 24 weeks? Earlier/Later?
If not, why not?

 

[Freya]

If this is true, then does that mean that you fully support laws then that prevent abortions from happening that late in the pregnancy, as long as there is an exception if the life of the mother or fetus are likely in jeopardy?

If yes, where would you be comfortable with that line being drawn? 24 weeks? Earlier/Later?
If not, why not?

90% of abortions happen before 13 weeks
It's non issue. You're only asking this so you can whine and dispute whatever limit i give

 

[snailslime]

You think 90% of pro-choice people support regulations on whether or not they are allowed to have an abortion? What do they mean by "my body my choice" then?

i mean pro-choice is a broad term and it encompasses many different beliefs about abortion, the common one being that abortion should at least be a choice and not forbidden by a draconian government.

 

[Freya]

This is clearly an individual that cares deeply about human life

I would say the world is a better place now with this piece of utter human trash dead, but unfortunately they're reproducing at a greater rate than they're dying.

 

[Isaac]

On the other side of the argument, there are people who are against abortion except in the case of rape or incest, why? If you think abortion is murder, how do you justify making these exceptions? Would you also extend that exception to letting a mother murder her 3 year old that she finds out was really the result of a rape? If not, why not? If you view a fetus as the same thing as a child, then you can't logically accept one and not the other.

I don't know whether it is moral to abort children that are begotten due rape/incest. None of us have been raped, or begotten children that were fathered by a rapist.
If we lived in a Christian society, these tragedies be solved in accordance to the will of God. As we live in a secular society, the matter must be solved by public servant

I cannot, in good faith subject a woman to such misery for the sake of moral absolutism. As it stands, abortions in the case of rape/incest should be legal. Not because
it is always moral to abort a child in such circumstances, but because it may be immoral to prevent an abortion from taking place in such a situation.

All this comes down to is moids being pissed off women can "get away" with having sex unpunished. And putting a fucking embryo over the well being of someone that actually exists

As for the first part, some do think that. And that's wrong for them to think as such. Children are a gift from God,
and it is both a blessing to give life and to have life given to you. It is wrong to imply that children are mere burdens. It's blasphemy, truly.
My mother has sacrificed greatly for myself to have been born. She didn't kill me for the sake of her career, or her supposed freedom or her
finances or for fleeting satisfaction. Christ gives the hardest battles to his strongest soldiers, as they say.

I'm sorry that the opposite sex has treated you badly. We exist in a singular flock, and we ought to act as such. Do you think it is of
much use to regard the male sex as wimpy 'moids'? Aren't we all siblings in Christ? These are mostly trivial matters, and nothing is gained
from our fighting. We cannot change the laws regarding abortion beyond our voices and our votes.

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

90% of abortions happen before 13 weeks
It's non issue.

So would it be a problem to place the limit for legal abortions at 13 weeks? If not, why not?

the common one being that abortion should at least be a choice and not forbidden by a draconian government.

Again, I think most arguments (not all) come down to when an abortion should/shouldn't be a choice. So for instance, should a woman have the choice to get a morning after pill? Should a woman be allowed to get an abortion at 40 weeks? Or do you draw the line somewhere in between?

If you're 100% pro-choice, then why wouldn't you support an abortion at 40 weeks?

This is clearly an individual that cares deeply about human life

oooh scary, my post history. I mean, I can save you time and list off a whole bunch of people I would be happy to see dead, if you think it's somehow relevant. I'm not some holy roller wading my way into the debate, I'm agnostic. I'm just here pointing out that you and a few others do not have a consistently logical basis to your positions. And it seems to frustrate you when you get called out, so rather than craft your positions through debate, you do...well whatever it is you think you're doing.

 

[snailslime]

Again, I think most arguments (not all) come down to when an abortion should/shouldn't be a choice. So for instance, should a woman have the choice to get a morning after a pill? Should a woman be allowed to get an abortion at 40 weeks? Or do you draw the line somewhere in between?

If you're 100% pro-choice, then why wouldn't you support an abortion at 40 weeks?

i draw the line somewhere in-between, i said that 22 weeks made sense as the cutoff. i am 100% pro-choice because i believe abortion should be a choice and allowed by the law. it's really simple.

oooh scary, my post history. I mean, I can save you time and list off a whole bunch of people I would be happy to see dead, if you think it's somehow relevant. I'm not some holy roller wading my way into the debate, I'm agnostic. I'm just here pointing out that you and a few others do not have a consistently logical basis to your positions. And it seems to frustrate you when you get called out, so rather than craft your positions through debate, you do...well whatever it is you think you're doing.

are you 100% pro-life? if so, why do you celebrate the deaths of people who you don't like for petty reasons?

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

i draw the line somewhere in-between, i said that 22 weeks made sense as the cutoff. i am 100% pro-choice because i believe abortion should be a choice and allowed by the law. it's really simple.

If you're 100% pro-choice, then why wouldn't you allow a woman to get a abortion at 26 weeks? Or 30 weeks? That doesn't sound like you're 100% pro-choice, that just sounds like you support restrictions on when a woman can get an abortion. Can you clarify?

are you 100% pro-life? if so, why do you celebrate the deaths of people who you don't like for petty reasons?

No, I am not. I celebrate the deaths of people who are worthy of death.

 

[snailslime]

If you're 100% pro-choice, then why wouldn't you allow a woman to get a abortion at 26 weeks? Or 30 weeks? That doesn't sound like you're 100% pro-choice, that just sounds like you support restrictions on when a woman can get an abortion. Can you clarify?

i don't support abortion at 26 weeks because at that point, the baby isn't a clump of cells anymore/is sentient enough to feel pain, and 26 weeks is a long time to wait to abort.

No, I am not. I celebrate the deaths of people who are worthy of death.

wouldn't you have supported the abortion of said people?

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

i don't support abortion at 26 weeks because at that point, the baby isn't a clump of cells anymore/is sentient enough to feel pain, and 26 weeks is a long time to wait to abort.

OK, but do you support legislation to prevent abortions after 26 weeks then?

If yes, does this still make you pro-choice?
If no, why not?

 

[Freya]

So would it be a problem to place the limit for legal abortions at 13 weeks? If not, why not?



Again, I think most arguments (not all) come down to when an abortion should/shouldn't be a choice. So for instance, should a woman have the choice to get a morning after pill? Should a woman be allowed to get an abortion at 40 weeks? Or do you draw the line somewhere in between?

The morning after pill doesn't cause abortions

 

[snailslime]

OK, but do you support legislation to prevent abortions after 26 weeks then?

no because there are exceptions, and politicians would abuse those legislations.

If yes, does this still make you pro-choice?
If no, why not?

why not what?

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

The morning after pill doesn't cause abortions

Should a woman have the choice to get an abortion at 2/3/4 weeks pregnant? What about at 38/39/40 weeks pregnant? Or do you draw the line somewhere in between?

why not what?

Well, you said at 26 weeks "the baby isn't a clump of cells anymore/is sentient enough to feel pain, and 26 weeks is a long time to wait to abort. But you said you don't support legislation to enforce that. So then, why wouldn't a woman be able to get an abortion at 40 weeks if she wants? If there is no legislation to stop it, then it's unenforceable. And if you truly believe a 40 week old fetus (or 26 weeks, or 35 weeks) is no longer a clump of cells then how do you justify in your mind not thinking it deserves protection at that point?

 

[Freya]

Should a woman have the choice to get an abortion at 2/3/4 weeks pregnant? What about at 38/39/40 weeks pregnant? Or do you draw the line somewhere in between?



Well, you said at 26 weeks "the baby isn't a clump of cells anymore/is sentient enough to feel pain, and 26 weeks is a long time to wait to abort. But you said you don't support legislation to enforce that. So then, why wouldn't a woman be able to get an abortion at 40 weeks if she wants? If there is no legislation to stop it, then it's unenforceable. And if you truly believe a 40 week old fetus (or 26 weeks, or 35 weeks) is no longer a clump of cells then how do you justify in your mind not thinking it deserves protection at that point?

Doctors aren't going to abort a fetus that's weeks away from being delivered.
And she said why she wouldn't support a law for that. You just ignored the answer

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Doctors aren't going to abort a fetus that's weeks away from being delivered.

Well we know that's not true. And that guy was killing some of them after being born, so there is no reason to think you can't find a doctor who would be willing to a 36 week abortion for the right price.

But the important thing is, if you think an abortion that late in the term is so bad that no doctor would want to perform it, then why not make it illegal? After all, I don't think anybody would ever kill their own children, but it does happen and so it's good that it is illegal.

So what is the logical argument against putting a line at some point in a pregnancy where an abortion is not allowed unless the life of the mother is in danger?

 

[Freya]

Well we know that's not true. And that guy was killing them after being born, so there is no reason to think you can't find a doctor who would be willing to a 36 week abortion for the right price.

But the important thing is, if you think an abortion that late in the term is so bad that no doctor would want to perform it, then why not make it illegal? After all, I don't think anybody would ever kill their own children, but it does happen and so it's good that it is illegal.

So what is the logical argument against putting a line at some point in a pregnancy where an abortion is not allowed unless the life of the mother is in danger?

Because it's not your body

 

[Unarmed Gunman]

Because it's not your body

OK. So then what is the argument against letting women get abortions at 40 weeks? Why limit them at all?

What is the difference between aborting a 38 week fetus and killing a 2 week old baby? What magical thing happens in a birth canal that conveys sentience?