War Invasion of Ukraine News Megathread - Thread is only for articles and discussion of articles, general discussion thread is still in Happenings.

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President Joe Biden on Tuesday said that the United States will impose sanctions “far beyond” the ones that the United States imposed in 2014 following the annexation of the Crimean peninsula.

“This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine,” Biden said in a White House speech, signaling a shift in his administration’s position. “We will continue to escalate sanctions if Russia escalates,” he added.

Russian elites and their family members will also soon face sanctions, Biden said, adding that “Russia will pay an even steeper price” if Moscow decides to push forward into Ukraine. Two Russian banks and Russian sovereign debt will also be sanctioned, he said.

Also in his speech, Biden said he would send more U.S. troops to the Baltic states as a defensive measure to strengthen NATO’s position in the area.

Russia shares a border with Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

A day earlier, Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered troops to go into the separatist Donetsk and Lugansk regions in eastern Ukraine after a lengthy speech in which he recognized the two regions’ independence.

Western powers decried the move and began to slap sanctions on certain Russian individuals, while Germany announced it would halt plans to go ahead with the Russia-to-Germany Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

At home, Biden is facing bipartisan pressure to take more extensive actions against Russia following Putin’s decision. However, a recent poll showed that a majority of Americans believe that sending troops to Ukraine is a “bad idea,” and a slim minority believes it’s a good one.

All 27 European Union countries unanimously agreed on an initial list of sanctions targeting Russian authorities, said French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and EU foreign affairs head Josep Borell claimed the package “will hurt Russia … a lot.”

Earlier Tuesday, Borell asserted that Russian troops have already entered the Donbas region, which comprises Donetsk and Lugansk, which are under the control of pro-Russia groups since 2014.

And on Tuesday, the Russian Parliament approved a Putin-back plan to use military force outside of Russia’s borders as Putin further said that Russia confirmed it would recognize the expanded borders of Lugansk and Donetsk.

“We recognized the states,” the Russian president said. “That means we recognized all of their fundamental documents, including the constitution, where it is written that their [borders] are the territories at the time the two regions were part of Ukraine.”

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Putin said that Ukraine is “not interested in peaceful solutions” and that “every day, they are amassing troops in the Donbas.”

Meanwhile, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Tuesday morning again downplayed the prospect of a Russian invasion and proclaimed: “There will be no war.”

“There will not be an all-out war against Ukraine, and there will not be a broad escalation from Russia. If there is, then we will put Ukraine on a war footing,” he said in a televised address.

The White House began to signal that they would shift their own position on whether it’s the start of an invasion.

“We think this is, yes, the beginning of an invasion, Russia’s latest invasion into Ukraine,” said Jon Finer, the White House deputy national security adviser in public remarks. “An invasion is an invasion and that is what is underway.”

For weeks, Western governments have been claiming Moscow would invade its neighbor after Russia gathered some 150,000 troops along the countries’ borders. They alleged that the Kremlin would attempt to come up with a pretext to attack, while some officials on Monday said Putin’s speech recognizing the two regions was just that.

But Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told reporters Tuesday that Russia’s “latest invasion” of Ukraine is threatening stability in the region, but he asserted that Putin can “still avoid a full blown, tragic war of choice.”

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What was disproven?
I believe it is this:
I don't know if you are trolling, over the 8 years most people did turn into pro-Russian biomass, but thanks to extermination of anything Ukrainian and non-stop Russian TV propaganda.

The so called "ukrainian shelling" are weak sauce fakes, because everytime they needed some outrage, they would shoot up the civs, sometimes evidenced by the locals, sometimes have TV reporters arrive a bit too early to accidentally witness the outrage, but the vast majority of those fakes have been decisively disproven as manufactured by their local FSB directed bandit groups.

Also, the reason why Ukraine back in 2014 was corrupt is because of this:
Also keep in mind that Ukraine of 2014 was not that different from Belarus now, i.e. economically depressed shithole, constantly dependent on handouts from Russia in form of gas supply. Not that different from Crimeans burning their Ukrainian passports, then asking around social networks how to restore the passport, because as a Ukrainian you had visa less entry into EU.

And here is the part of the quote proving your whole "Ukraine was shelling civilians" thing to be even less credible than it already is.
nice fucking try ... that's Donetsk airport area, here is an article:


that was an area of some heaviest fighting between Ukrainian and actual RF troops. This is NOT a civilian district that evil Ukrop Nazis just destroyed in spite because they were thirsty for some civilian blood.

P.S. that's a HOTEL buildings btw

You're responding to stuff I never said again. Quote where I said anything related to this if you want to keep talking about it.
You won't find it because Russia is objectively a corrupt shithole and I do not trust the Russian government either.
I believe you said this before:
Forgive me if I find it hard to trust one of the most corrupt governments in the world who currently has egg on their face from obvious lies regarding more current events. Not that I trust the "separatists" either, which of course must be said because not being explicit in this thread is grounds for a paddlin'.

And if you can't trust sources like the Daily Mail because they're "trash", and you can't trust pro-Ukrainian or pro-Western sources just because "MUH GHOST OF KIEV" and "corruption", then everything coming from the Russians would be even more suspect, since Russian corruption outpaces Ukraine's by a country mile.

That, and we've seen video evidence of Russian soldiers being treated well by Ukrainians, even letting them speak in the open:



So when Ukrainians treat captured Russians like shit, it's more than likely because said Russians were part of a unit that really caused grief for the Ukrainians, ie. artillerymen whose shots hit civilian targets.
 
Can we call this world war z at this point in time?
I'm reserving that for the actual Zombie Apocalypse

I was going to comment on the FT article about the new development of the Russian terms, but @Mr E. Grifter have pointed out what I felt wrong about it. It's just simply too good to be true, and I think both Kyiv and the West recognize that as well. And as mentioned, Zelenskiy did the smart thing by proclaiming that they will only accept treaty through referendum, it basically means a total withdrawal from the Russian first (or total Ceasefire) and the treaty would have to be something that heavily favors the Ukrainian

The problem now is how the sanctions on Russia be lifted. Sleepy Joe fucked up everything by going off script and calls for regime change in Russia. That will emboldens both Kremlin and the Pro-Putin populace, and torpedoes the unity of the West since none of them wanted that to happen. I can see now Europe probably going to lift their sanctions first before the Us once this war is over, but the damage to Russian trade will still remain
 
And? Do you have anything that hasn't been proven wrong anywhere here? Or are you just going to whine that people don't believe your side?

If you want to shill anti-Ukrainian propaganda, there's other threads for that stuff where people will believe that unconditionally.
Ah but what good is it to continue convincing people who already agree with you? You go where minds have been unchanged.
 
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I'm reserving that for the actual Zombie Apocalypse

I was going to comment on the FT article about the new development of the Russian terms, but @Mr E. Grifter have pointed out what I felt wrong about it. It's just simply too good to be true, and I think both Kyiv and the West recognize that as well. And as mentioned, Zelenskiy did the smart thing by proclaiming that they will only accept treaty through referendum, it basically means a total withdrawal from the Russian first (or total Ceasefire) and the treaty would have to be something that heavily favors the Ukrainian

The problem now is how the sanctions on Russia be lifted. Sleepy Joe fucked up everything by going off script and calls for regime change in Russia. That will emboldens both Kremlin and the Pro-Putin populace, and torpedoes the unity of the West since none of them wanted that to happen. I can see now Europe probably going to lift their sanctions first before the Us once this war is over, but the damage to Russian trade will still remain
Sure do that why not.
 
I believe it is this:

And here is the part of the quote proving your whole "Ukraine was shelling civilians" thing to be even less credible than it already is.
This is proof to you? Some guy saying what another guy (me) said is bullshit and then linking an article from the same publication for context?
I think you want it to be proof and I'll let it go but it's on par with me just saying "nuh uh" and linking another dailymail article on the topic.
Also, the reason why Ukraine back in 2014 was corrupt is because of this:
I'm saying Ukraine is corrupt now. It is and has been notoriously corrupt. Their corruption ties right into US (and others') politics. No one can reasonably argue that Ukraine is not corrupt and I don't know why you would.

I believe you said this before:
Adian 2022-
Forgive me if I find it hard to trust one of the most corrupt governments in the world who currently has egg on their face from obvious lies regarding more current events. Not that I trust the "separatists" either, which of course must be said because not being explicit in this thread is grounds for a paddlin'.
Yes and this has nothing to do with Russia or its corruption. I even said I don't trust the separatists which I think implies I don't trust their backers, the Russian government or as I like to call him, Vladimir Putin.


And if you can't trust sources like the Daily Mail because they're "trash", and you can't trust pro-Ukrainian or pro-Western sources just because "MUH GHOST OF KIEV" and "corruption", then everything coming from the Russians would be even more suspect, since Russian corruption outpaces Ukraine's by a country mile.

That, and we've seen video evidence of Russian soldiers being treated well by Ukrainians, even letting them speak in the open:



So when Ukrainians treat captured Russians like shit, it's more than likely because said Russian was part of a unit that really caused grief for the Ukrainians, ie. artillerymen whose shots hit civilian targets.
Dailymail is trash but I called it that because one of your buddies who you agree with 100% on insulted my use of it. Since I need to break everything down very, very clearly, he was calling Dailymail trash as well. At this point I don't think you actually read everything you reply and react to.

The rest is just more stuff I didn't say or deny. You really have it in your head that me calling Ukraine corrupt means I think Russia is not corrupt, there's no reason continuing this cycle.
 
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Ok but what exactly is disproven?
The exchange so far is basically
  • What was disproven?
  • Yes
  • What was disproven?
  • This quote disproved what you said
  • That quote doesn't prove or disprove anything
  • It does
Digging through replies the thing disproven seems to be this bit:
Not going to reply bit by bit due to time but again, point=missed.
Both sides said the other side did a lot of stuff and unsurprisingly this continues into the full on war. I grabbed one of the first images of Donetsk just as an example of Ukrainian arty results. The article I linked even says what the image is when it's just the hotel. "Ruins: A heavily damaged hotel stands in ruins near to Donetsk airport in Donetsk, Ukraine"
There are images of homes and apartments having been shelled and as far as I know, in all cases both sides blamed the other. I know that won't appease you but oh well.
But it isn't exactly disproven as it was reframed by @дядя Боря by giving context for what we were actually looking at with some of the photos and what the stories of what was occurring. Aidan was saying this was a civilian area, Dyadya Borya was pointing out it wasn't.

Also regarding misinformation from Ukraine, a lot of it is English based so what's more likely, that Ukrainians are coming up with various lies on their own or that people in the English speaking world are interpreting things how they want (or possibly even making up shit like when we see video game footage proclaimed to be super real footage from Ukraine)? Like with the Snake Island stuff it seemed like no one knew what exactly happened for a while, was thinking they fought to the death because we only got silence from them a lie or a misinterpretation? I'm tempted to be charitable to Ukraine on stuff like that because people are going to be wildly fucking biased when coming up with these interpretations which I do not equate with lying.
 
Digging through replies the thing disproven seems to be this bit:

But it isn't exactly disproven as it was reframed by @дядя Боря by giving context for what we were actually looking at with some of the photos and what the stories of what was occurring. Aidan was saying this was a civilian area, Dyadya Borya was pointing out it wasn't.

Also regarding misinformation from Ukraine, a lot of it is English based so what's more likely, that Ukrainians are coming up with various lies on their own or that people in the English speaking world are interpreting things how they want (or possibly even making up shit like when we see video game footage proclaimed to be super real footage from Ukraine)? Like with the Snake Island stuff it seemed like no one knew what exactly happened for a while, was thinking they fought to the death because we only got silence from them a lie or a misinterpretation? I'm tempted to be charitable to Ukraine on stuff like that because people are going to be wildly fucking biased when coming up with these interpretations which I do not equate with lying.
After @дядя Боря 's post I tried to find a better source but as you say everything is either one way or another depending on who reports it. I found a reuters article that was ok but it just said "lol nobody knows the truth" basically and that both sides claim X, Y and Z throughout the conflict with some relevant quotes.

I think the reality is there won't be proofs for awhile, if ever, at this rate. Not like Russia would let it slip that their guys shelled their own people for PR or whatever.
 
The problem now is how the sanctions on Russia be lifted. Sleepy Joe fucked up everything by going off script and calls for regime change in Russia. That will emboldens both Kremlin and the Pro-Putin populace, and torpedoes the unity of the West since none of them wanted that to happen. I can see now Europe probably going to lift their sanctions first before the Us once this war is over, but the damage to Russian trade will still remain

lol no. I'm normally pretty neutral towards Biden but I thought he did the right thing by mocking Putin and calling him a butcher. I'm tired of appeasing this faggot. Appeasing Putin will never work because he views it as weakness and it tells him that he can do whatever he wants with no international pushback. I barely consider him better than Hitler in that regard. Bowing down to the will of dictators is what got us dragged into WW2

There shouldn't be any apprehension letting Putin know that he's human pondscum and that the world is better off without him. In a bout of autistic frustration he threatened the entire world at nuke point. I hope our politicians slap him around like a filthy dishrag. He won't do shit

I agree with the rest of your post though
 
After @дядя Боря 's post I tried to find a better source but as you say everything is either one way or another depending on who reports it. I found a reuters article that was ok but it just said "lol nobody knows the truth" basically and that both sides claim X, Y and Z throughout the conflict with some relevant quotes.

I think the reality is there won't be proofs for awhile, if ever, at this rate. Not like Russia would let it slip that their guys shelled their own people for PR or whatever.
It's annoying, but we do have that whole fog of war thing going on so a lot of the history of what's happened will stay uncertain for a while. I am finding Dyadya's framing pretty believable though since it does seem like Russia was trying to pay people off in Ukraine to surrender immediately, to create conflicts like in Eastern Ukraine, and then doing weird shit like bringing the Nazi uniforms in. But then again, maybe it's my own biases blinding me on this.

In the end, the important thing is to be understanding about these differences of opinion and everyone to be polite towards each other here if we can, because most of us are of course hoping for the best for all involved.❤️
Edit: Thinking about it I feel my comments may sound like I'm directing them just Aidan, I think a lot of people here are getting sassier with each other than is nice. So I hope everyone can chill out a bit.
 
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Mayor of Mariupol reports city has fallen, and is now fully in Russian hands. Orders "complete evacuation". "We are in the hands of the occupiers", says Mayor Vadym Boichenko.

Other sources use softer language, so I suspect it's not quite official yet and the Mayor is just doing his best in a difficult situation to set expectations for those remaining.

Assuming this is the case, those Russian resources will now be redirected elsewhere vastly accelerating things. They have been bogged down in Mariupol for weeks, and now all of those resources are freed up. Do they head to Odessa? Or do they use it as leverage to end this mess? Putin has to know he can't occupy all of Ukraine, so you would think he would use this as a way to secure the Donbass region and landbridge to Crimea, then offer up a ceasefire.

I would expect the entire conversation about the war to change in the next few days.
Those resources aren't free. All the soldiers fighting there are going to be worn out, fatigued, and with no supplies of their own. They're going to be combat-ineffective for about a week, minimum until they get rest, resupply, and reinforcements. And if Russia is having issues with anything right now... its resupply and reinforcement, and there's little rest to be had in the ruins of a bombed-out city where you're at risk of getting beaten to death in your sleep by an angry babushka and her rolling pin.
With Venezuela I think they got by trading their oil for gold or some goofy shit like that, whereas with Iran many countries in Europe didn't care to join in with the US on it at all. Instead many countries worked around the sanctions to continue doing business as they pleased, which does make the Russia sanctions unique since it got assholes in Europe to actually do something for once.

Sanctions from the US have typically been a joke since other countries refused to follow America's lead. Even now with Russia there's suggestions Germany will cave in regarding paying for resources from Russia, because Germany isn't used to the idea of having to throw their economic weight around. Also doesn't help that much of Europe seemed to treat the idea of helping defend itself or its neighbors as a joke, going so far as to treat the US as behaving as the World Police if they ever tried intervening anywhere. Now they have a conflict in their backyard and everyone will deal with the repercussions of their decisions.
I believe the last time US sanctions had any significant effect is when we browbeat Latin America into going along with our embargos on Japan when they went after China.
 
One thing that's struck me in this war is one thing - the historical lack of Fixed warfair.

In the majority of the western world, Armies have always had to fight walled or enforced communities this has lead to an awareness of certain techniques even if antiquated that can get dusted off and tweaked and put back into use.
Very short answer is the use of fixed fortifications went away with advent of aircraft and more importantly PGMs whether they're air or surface launched.
 
lol no. I'm normally pretty neutral towards Biden but I thought he did the right thing by mocking Putin and calling him a butcher. I'm tired of appeasing this faggot. Appeasing Putin will never work because he views it as weakness and it tells him that he can do whatever he wants with no international pushback. I barely consider him better than Hitler in that regard. Bowing down to the will of dictators is what got us dragged into WW2

There shouldn't be any apprehension letting Putin know that he's human pondscum and that the world is better off without him. In a bout of autistic frustration he threatened the entire world at nuke point. I hope our politicians slap him around like a filthy dishrag. He won't do shit

I agree with the rest of your post though
As much as I want Putin gone for starting this mess, I disagree that's the right way to do it. But let's wait and find out how the developments go. Things are going to be spicy from now on, for better or worse
 
Very short answer is the use of fixed fortifications went away with advent of aircraft and more importantly PGMs whether they're air or surface launched.
Hmm... what a shame Russia appears to be quite short on PGM's and their aircraft keep getting shot down. Looks like trench warfare's back on the menu, boys!
 
As much as I want Putin gone for starting this mess, I disagree that's the right way to do it. But let's wait and find out how the developments go. Things are going to be spicy from now on, for better or worse
I understand where you're coming from but I think we need to stop handling Putin with kid gloves. Biden, Macron, and others have tried for MONTHS to get him to see reason but it should be clear to everyone at this point that he never respected international law.

He doesn't respect principles, he respects strength and the only way we're going to win this for the Ukrainians is by making this the mother of all proxy wars and communicating crystal clear to Putin and his thugs that we're a nuclear alliance too and they'll cease to exist the nanosecond they escalate this war beyond Ukraine itself

For what it's worth I don't see this lasting much longer. Maybe a couple more months but I really can't see this going beyond 2022. We're now a little over a month into the three day "special military operation" and Russia has been thoroughly thrashed. I think the best estimates I've seen put their economy shrinking by ten percent this year. They've already backtracked on a lot of their demands. They're on borrowed time and they know it'll only get worse the longer this continues.
 
I understand where you're coming from but I think we need to stop handling Putin with kid gloves. Biden, Macron, and others have tried for MONTHS to get him to see reason but it should be clear to everyone at this point that he never respected international law.

He doesn't respect principles, he respects strength and the only way we're going to win this for the Ukrainians is by making this the mother of all proxy wars and communicating crystal clear to Putin and his thugs that we're a nuclear alliance too and they'll cease to exist the nanosecond they escalate this war beyond Ukraine itself

For what it's worth I don't see this lasting much longer. Maybe a couple more months but I really can't see this going beyond 2022. We're now a little over a month into the three day "special military operation" and Russia has been thoroughly thrashed. I think the best estimates I've seen put their economy shrinking by ten percent this year. They've already backtracked on a lot of their demands. They're on borrowed time and they know it'll only get worse the longer this continues.
I'm not saying they're treating him with kid gloves. I'm saying that Putin is a dangerous man whose mind is now bordering on delusional paranoia. That remark from Biden basically just confirmed his greatest fear, and now he can justify even more tougher and dangerous measures to his people as a retaliation to "The West is plotting against me and Russia"

I know nukes can only be used after clearance of many people, but we don't know how the actual situation in Moscow actually are now regarding nukes. Pushing Putin more than we should could forced him to use it as a last resort

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Ah, shit, apparently Biden is defending his remark now? Either he's going off script again, or White House managed to find solutions to that problem....or perhaps even Washington planned it since the very beginning? I'm fucking confused now. Things are going to be very spicy indeed
 
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I'm not saying they're treating him with kid gloves. I'm saying that Putin is a dangerous man whose mind is now bordering on delusional paranoia. That remark from Biden basically just confirmed his greatest fear, and now he can justify even more tougher and dangerous measures to his people as a retaliation to "The West is plotting against me and Russia"

I know nukes can only be used after clearance of many people, but we don't know how the actual situation in Moscow actually are now regarding nukes. Pushing Putin more than we should could forced him to use it as a last resort

Edit:
Ah, shit, apparently Biden is defending his remark now? Either he's going off script again, or White House managed to find solutions to that problem....or perhaps even Washington planned it since the very beginning? I'm fucking confused now. Things are going to be very spicy indeed
This. "Regime change" was an astonishingly stupid phrase to use because not only does it allow Russian propaganda to further validate Russian people's fears ("they want to break us apart") but it's making even US "allies" recoil because now they are wondering what will happen to them if they step out of line (I'm looking at the likes of Hungary, India, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, maybe even Poland here). For the record I do think that Russia breaking apart is inevitable but you should just let fate take its course on that point.
 
Nun who gave up the faith to become drug dealer & pro-Russian sniper.
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Irina Starikova, code name Baghera, has been captured in by Ukrainian forces after her Russian comrades 'left her for dead'. It is reported she abandoned her faith to become a drug dealer then a feared killer.
An infamous sniper fighting for the Russian invasion force has been captured by Ukrainian troops after being left for dead by her comrades.
Irina Starikova, code name Baghera, achieved infamy and a reported kill count of 40, including Ukrainian civilians - but her true identity remains unclear and is shrouded in mystery.
Believed to have originally been born in Serbia, she is according to some reports she a former professional handball player named Daniela Lazovic.
It is reported that she was once a nun who became a drug trafficker, before covering to Islam.
 
It's annoying, but we do have that whole fog of war thing going on so a lot of the history of what's happened will stay uncertain for a while. I am finding Dyadya's framing pretty believable though since it does seem like Russia was trying to pay people off in Ukraine to surrender immediately, to create conflicts like in Eastern Ukraine, and then doing weird shit like bringing the Nazi uniforms in. But then again, maybe it's my own biases blinding me on this.
Smuggling Nazi uniforms into Ukraine to frame them as Neo-Nazis is such a dirty cop move, planting drugs on a law abiding citizen to have an excuse to throw them into the clink. It almost makes me think that all the Nazi hysteria from Anti-Fag these passed ten years came straight outta Moscow. Poisoning public education is a total USSR move, after all, and what do we know Putin is nostalgic for?
This is the most anime thing I've ever heard of happening in real life.
 
Smuggling Nazi uniforms into Ukraine to frame them as Neo-Nazis is such a dirty cop move, planting drugs on a law abiding citizen to have an excuse to throw them into the clink. It almost makes me think that all the Nazi hysteria from Anti-Fag these passed ten years came straight outta Moscow. Poisoning public education is a total USSR move, after all, and what do we know Putin is nostalgic for?

This is the most anime thing I've ever heard of happening in real life.
One of the most ignored part of Intelligence is how countries infiltrate academics and influencers to create a narrative they wanted to push. And who made this narrative about the Nazi hysteria all this time? Academics and influencers

It's standard Cold War shit, really, both US and USSR did it workdwide all the time. But the problem is, US scales back on operations like this because the administrations (on both sides of the political spectrum, mind you), opted instead for more subtle approach like Soft Power. This led to an opening that both Russia and China exploited
 
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