Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[NerdShamer]

Possibly. I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance. I guess that's the issue for troons, too.
I've never felt gender dysphoria, or any desire to modify my body, because I don't see a reason to.

You're an tomboy, that'll be $300 bucks for this therapy session. I'll accept Visa, MasterCard, BitCoin, or your kidneys. But not NFTs, because those are fucking gay.

 

[Mrs. Addams]

This girl sounds a lot like one of my current roommates - she's nonbinary and going only by they/them, also a talented artist who even makes a little side income out of it, and while not a furry she does have some stuff around the house that suggests she might be into Wicca. She's also self-proclaimed bi, though has only been in relationships with guys to my knowledge. She mentioned that she felt she was bi just because she felt attraction to fictional female characters.
I always thought it was really odd that she identifies as a they/them NB - like your friend, she dresses very feminine, mostly wearing dresses even. In general, she just presents herself as very feminine in every way. She's into cooking, gardening, all that stuff. The only hobbies she's into that aren't outright associated with femininity are fencing and gaming (which she just got into this year). She's got a large friend group with a healthy social life, high academic achievement, and is co-captain of said fencing club. So I don't really understand her need to be a special snowflake. I know she's deep enough into the woke stuff that she flies an LGBT flag on our front window, so maybe she feels the need to push herself into being a part of that crowd rather than just being an ally/supporter, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I'll admit that I have and still dabble with the idea of identifying as NB. Though I don't give a shit about pronouns and think it's ridiculous to try and enforce others to call you by a certain set of them. But in my case, in contrast to my roommate, I've always dressed in a more masculine or neutral way outside of special occasions. In general, I have more male-oriented hobbies and interests, and my behavior/personality is more leaning-masculine or neutral. I consider myself straight, but I hate having to play the role of the female in relationships. Now, could all this be because I had a shitty, emotionally-absent mother and no decent female role models throughout my life? Possibly. I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance. I guess that's the issue for troons, too.
I've never felt gender dysphoria, or any desire to modify my body, because I don't see a reason to. I agree with the general consensus that all that shit does is reinforce prescribed gender roles and expectations. It's what makes me question the whole NB thing, too - I'm only thinking I should be considered NB because I don't fit the stereotypes of being a girl.
As absolutely stupid as all this troon shit is, I do think it raises some fascinating questions about prescribed gender roles associated with birth sex, and all that.
It raises a perhaps disturbing question about whether any natural deviation from said sex-assigned gender roles is caused only by things such as failed parenting, as in my case.

That's a whole other rabbit hole, though. Sadly, the vast majority of troons lack the basic self-awareness to even realize those questions at all, much less think about them.

From somebody who also isn't into female stuff, and would have totally transitioned when I was younger, unless you're gonna go all the way and fully pass there's no point in adopting an identity. The only people who respect your pronouns/identity are people who would have already probably been nice to you before. (LGBT people are very nice and accepting until you try to disagree with them) And the people who actually would "perpetrate women's oppression", like invading soldiers, rapists, FGM culture, cat-calling construction workers, ect, don't give a damn what you identify as because they can see that you have women's parts - which is how they define it.

I get that it's hard though... If you buy into the whole "gender is a feeling and my pronouns should correspond to that feeling" ideology, it leaves a lot of us tomboys, and effeminate dudes out in the cold.

 

[Protistology]

I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance.

It doesn't matter. You were a women since birth. You are a woman, therefore anything you do or believe is feminine. Womanhood is spectrum, not a binary.

Over 9000 hours in photoshop:

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

@Vampyroteuthis infernalis Please don't take this as hate but you should consider detransioning. It's pretty clear that you don't like yourself well beyond normal but I don't you have the right diagnosis and I doubt transitioning treatments are really helping you.

Somehow missed the part about you being FtM on my first reading but I picked up that you are female pretty easy without it. Your word choices and approach to relationships are very girly. You are mothering your friend and took shit from him in away that guys just don't. To me you do come across just as a girl with a really low self esteem.

I think you are selling yourself short and staying with people and relationships that just aren't good enough. There is always settling, compromising and bad sides to every relationship but overall relationships should be adding into your live positively. You cut contact to this guy over a long behavior pattern of being a pervy jerk, quite frankly long after you should have left him. It doesn't matter that reason for it might have autism or you showing him the world of gender bending, his behavior just isn't acceptable. You feeling sorry for him and like this partly your fault aren't good enough reasons to let him back in. Only reason to let him back in is if he has matured and self improved to the point of being a pleasant adult.

 

[Ser Prize]

This girl sounds a lot like one of my current roommates - she's nonbinary and going only by they/them, also a talented artist who even makes a little side income out of it, and while not a furry she does have some stuff around the house that suggests she might be into Wicca. She's also self-proclaimed bi, though has only been in relationships with guys to my knowledge. She mentioned that she felt she was bi just because she felt attraction to fictional female characters.
I always thought it was really odd that she identifies as a they/them NB - like your friend, she dresses very feminine, mostly wearing dresses even. In general, she just presents herself as very feminine in every way. She's into cooking, gardening, all that stuff. The only hobbies she's into that aren't outright associated with femininity are fencing and gaming (which she just got into this year). She's got a large friend group with a healthy social life, high academic achievement, and is co-captain of said fencing club. So I don't really understand her need to be a special snowflake. I know she's deep enough into the woke stuff that she flies an LGBT flag on our front window, so maybe she feels the need to push herself into being a part of that crowd rather than just being an ally/supporter, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I'll admit that I have and still dabble with the idea of identifying as NB. Though I don't give a shit about pronouns and think it's ridiculous to try and enforce others to call you by a certain set of them. But in my case, in contrast to my roommate, I've always dressed in a more masculine or neutral way outside of special occasions. In general, I have more male-oriented hobbies and interests, and my behavior/personality is more leaning-masculine or neutral. I consider myself straight, but I hate having to play the role of the female in relationships. Now, could all this be because I had a shitty, emotionally-absent mother and no decent female role models throughout my life? Possibly. I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance. I guess that's the issue for troons, too.
I've never felt gender dysphoria, or any desire to modify my body, because I don't see a reason to. I agree with the general consensus that all that shit does is reinforce prescribed gender roles and expectations. It's what makes me question the whole NB thing, too - I'm only thinking I should be considered NB because I don't fit the stereotypes of being a girl.
For me, calling myself NB has nothing to do with wanting to be a snowflake - I couldn't care less about winning approval points from the often-misguided LGBT community - and more of the idea that NB is a "warning label" telling people not to expect me to act in ways that align with my birth sex.
As absolutely stupid as all this troon shit is, I do think it raises some fascinating questions about prescribed gender roles associated with birth sex, and all that.
It raises a perhaps disturbing question about whether any natural deviation from said sex-assigned gender roles is caused only by things such as failed parenting, as in my case.

That's a whole other rabbit hole, though. Sadly, the vast majority of troons lack the basic self-awareness to even realize those questions at all, much less think about them.

You can just be a tomboy, man. None of this "non-binary" bullshit need apply.

 

[Spangled Drongo]

This girl sounds a lot like one of my current roommates - she's nonbinary and going only by they/them, also a talented artist who even makes a little side income out of it, and while not a furry she does have some stuff around the house that suggests she might be into Wicca. She's also self-proclaimed bi, though has only been in relationships with guys to my knowledge. She mentioned that she felt she was bi just because she felt attraction to fictional female characters.
I always thought it was really odd that she identifies as a they/them NB - like your friend, she dresses very feminine, mostly wearing dresses even. In general, she just presents herself as very feminine in every way. She's into cooking, gardening, all that stuff. The only hobbies she's into that aren't outright associated with femininity are fencing and gaming (which she just got into this year). She's got a large friend group with a healthy social life, high academic achievement, and is co-captain of said fencing club. So I don't really understand her need to be a special snowflake. I know she's deep enough into the woke stuff that she flies an LGBT flag on our front window, so maybe she feels the need to push herself into being a part of that crowd rather than just being an ally/supporter, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I'll admit that I have and still dabble with the idea of identifying as NB. Though I don't give a shit about pronouns and think it's ridiculous to try and enforce others to call you by a certain set of them. But in my case, in contrast to my roommate, I've always dressed in a more masculine or neutral way outside of special occasions. In general, I have more male-oriented hobbies and interests, and my behavior/personality is more leaning-masculine or neutral. I consider myself straight, but I hate having to play the role of the female in relationships. Now, could all this be because I had a shitty, emotionally-absent mother and no decent female role models throughout my life? Possibly. I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance. I guess that's the issue for troons, too.
I've never felt gender dysphoria, or any desire to modify my body, because I don't see a reason to. I agree with the general consensus that all that shit does is reinforce prescribed gender roles and expectations. It's what makes me question the whole NB thing, too - I'm only thinking I should be considered NB because I don't fit the stereotypes of being a girl.
For me, calling myself NB has nothing to do with wanting to be a snowflake - I couldn't care less about winning approval points from the often-misguided LGBT community - and more of the idea that NB is a "warning label" telling people not to expect me to act in ways that align with my birth sex.
As absolutely stupid as all this troon shit is, I do think it raises some fascinating questions about prescribed gender roles associated with birth sex, and all that.
It raises a perhaps disturbing question about whether any natural deviation from said sex-assigned gender roles is caused only by things such as failed parenting, as in my case.

That's a whole other rabbit hole, though. Sadly, the vast majority of troons lack the basic self-awareness to even realize those questions at all, much less think about them.

Nah, I see where you're coming from - as a fairly nerdy woman myself who's not keen on beauty, fashion or that whole culture of vanity that's being pushed more and more by online influencers these days, I almost got sucked in by the NB movement myself when I was younger and there was also an element of shame towards having a female body in my case. What ultimately snapped me out of it was having a "mind over matter" sort of attitude, and ultimately realising labels like non binary aren't necessary to justify being yourself.

In the case of this girl I was friends with, I can believe she was bisexual as she did have a relationship with another girl at one point (and gave me a graphic description of what it was like having lesbian sex for the first time), and had dated boys too, but it's her sudden identification as asexual that came as the real shock to me as she had drawn a fair bit of rule 34 art and thirsted over quite a few celebrities. The Wiccan part was a surprise too as she was a hardcore atheist when I knew her, I don't think her parents were religious, but they were a bit conservative from what I can recall, so there's possibly an element of rebellion there.

 

[AMHOLIO]

FGM culture

Can't wait for troons to try and start appropriating this. The SRS thread will reach new heights of terror with it.

The Wiccan part was a surprise too as she was a hardcore atheist when I knew her, I don't think her parents were religious, but they were a bit conservative from what I can recall, so there's possibly an element of rebellion there.

Sometimes people just need to find a community. Religion helps the world make more sense, gives people daily rituals and reassurance that they can control things in their life, and gives community.

but it's her sudden identification as asexual that came as the real shock to me as she had drawn a fair bit of rule 34 art and thirsted over quite a few celebrities.

It's my favorite contradiction. Love it when half of all asexuals aren't actually sex repulsed, love my words not having meanings.


My 4 cent garbage opinion on NB and woman: I always felt that woman is what my biology is, but isn't my entirety. It's a category I can't change since it's how I was born, much like your ethnic background or sexuality. Having something unchangeable define your life is stupid: there's so many female scientist and pioneers as well as lolcows and fuck ups that "woman" is a part rather than the whole of the person. There's stuff I'll be more prone to by being a woman since biology and socialization is like that, but biology doesn't make all jews money grubbing bankers who poison the water or whatever.

Categories do determine things, but ultimately our actions and thoughts define us as a person. There's no need to give a warning label of "nonbinary", the rest of the world can figure out how to categorize us if we don't fit their image of "woman". It's not like my uterus stops existing when I'm thought of otherwise, and it's not like I have to work to keep my personality up to "woman" standards.

 

[Bob jensen]

Meanwhile, I'll admit that I have and still dabble with the idea of identifying as NB. Though I don't give a shit about pronouns and think it's ridiculous to try and enforce others to call you by a certain set of them. But in my case, in contrast to my roommate, I've always dressed in a more masculine or neutral way outside of special occasions. In general, I have more male-oriented hobbies and interests, and my behavior/personality is more leaning-masculine or neutral

I think some circles are placing far too much weight on gender roles, causing others to question if they belong IN that narrative.

It's bullshit though. Tomboys and effeminate men have existed forever without needing a new identifier.

It's the woke crowd claiming labels shouldn't exist while simultaneously needing to invent new terms and give everyone a label.

Nonbinary my ass. I'm a female who has spent my entire life in male industries, getting my jimmies rustled over haul trucks and MLRs, I love guns and I hate baking. I've been called sir more times than I noticed (although yelling "it's ma'am" now gives me glee). I have no need to find some special identity to describe me.

I really truly believe the issue is people not living to love and loving to live as themselves.

My name is Bobby Jane, by today's Twitter standards that translates to MtF nonbinary asexual noncisheterative bullshit.

 

[NerdShamer]

It's bullshit though. Tomboys and effeminate men have existed forever without needing a new identifier.

It's the woke crowd claiming labels shouldn't exist while simultaneously needing to invent new terms and give everyone a label.

As far as I can tell, it's combination of people seeking for attention and an certain demographic trying to categorize something nebulous. Just look at how many flavors of asexuality there is.

 

[Bob jensen]

As far as I can tell, it's combination of people seeking for attention and an certain demographic trying to categorize something nebulous. Just look at how many flavors of asexuality there is.

I don't get it. Asexual = not at all sexual, right? How are there variations on that? Seems to me like a "no I don't ever want sex ever and there is zero pleasure in anything relating to arousal"

Am I not understanding the term?

 

[NerdShamer]

I don't get it. Asexual = not at all sexual, right? How are there variations on that? Seems to me like a "no I don't ever want sex ever and there is zero pleasure in anything relating to arousal"

Am I not understanding the term?

There's what you said; plus an few combinations on not wanting sex, but enjoying romance & vice versa. Along with the throwing in homosexual or experiencing an attraction to the subject of this thread... Without having sex with it, of course.

It's almost like trying to brute force your way on in on creating an character for an D&D campaign or something like that. Personally, I think that it's excuse to avoid being called an hypocrite for enjoying casual sex with those drag queens in an back alley.

And the best part is that people complain about having an "identity crisis" because they can't crack this relatively simple code.

 

[AMHOLIO]

As far as I can tell, it's combination of people seeking for attention and an certain demographic trying to categorize something nebulous. Just look at how many flavors of asexuality there is.

When you think about it, most genderspecial and sexuality terms outside of the main ones are created by anxious teens trying to find themselves, likely having autism, depression, or other mental health issue. Teens and young adults categorizing themselves into subcultures and creating new ones shouldn't be this big of a deal, nor should autistic overcategorization, yet here we are.

I don't get it. Asexual = not at all sexual, right? How are there variations on that? Seems to me like a "no I don't ever want sex ever and there is zero pleasure in anything relating to arousal"

Am I not understanding the term?

True and honest asexuals are that, yes. But there are people who call themselves "ace" before puberty kicks in then have to amend that they're still asexual, but that doesn't mean sex repulsed. Then there are "ace" people who have a low sex drive or are a late bloomer so they don't consider themselves sexual most of the time. Then there's people who completely misunderstand the term and think it means "am not attracted and willing to bone people on the spot" instead of natural over time attraction being much more normal than they realize. And THEN there's people who are "ace" but it's due to a sever error in sexual attraction: for example, someone who only wants to fuck cars because puberty or their brain fucked up. Those people are still sexual, but are so far removed from what people call sexy that they hide it as ace.

Sex drive shouldn't equal sexuality imo. A low sex drive heterosexual is not a low sex drive homosexual and will face similar and different challenges. It only counts if sex AND romance don't do anything for you, period, since then you're out of the game.

 

[NerdShamer]

When you think about it, most genderspecial and sexuality terms outside of the main ones are created by anxious teens trying to find themselves, likely having autism, depression, or other mental health issue.

There's actually an fair bit of overlap with being LGBT and autistic or ADHD. But it's kind of hard to determine if this stuff happens naturally or it's an "monkey see, monkey do" kind of thing.

 

[Bob jensen]

When you think about it, most genderspecial and sexuality terms outside of the main ones are created by anxious teens trying to find themselves, likely having autism, depression, or other mental health issue. Teens and young adults categorizing themselves into subcultures and creating new ones shouldn't be this big of a deal, nor should autistic overcategorization, yet here we are.

True and honest asexuals are that, yes. But there are people who call themselves "ace" before puberty kicks in then have to amend that they're still asexual, but that doesn't mean sex repulsed. Then there are "ace" people who have a low sex drive or are a late bloomer so they don't consider themselves sexual most of the time. Then there's people who completely misunderstand the term and think it means "am not attracted and willing to bone people on the spot" instead of natural over time attraction being much more normal than they realize. And THEN there's people who are "ace" but it's due to a sever error in sexual attraction: for example, someone who only wants to fuck cars because puberty or their brain fucked up. Those people are still sexual, but are so far removed from what people call sexy that they hide it as ace.

Sex drive shouldn't equal sexuality imo. A low sex drive heterosexual is not a low sex drive homosexual and will face similar and different challenges. It only counts if sex AND romance don't do anything for you, period, since then you're out of the game.

Jesus Christ why is this a thing

 

[NerdShamer]

Jesus Christ why is this a thing

It's from people being terminally online.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Jesus Christ why is this a thing

I'm sorry friend, this is truly a power of autisim (and what nerd shamer said).

Human sexuality and psychology is a complex thing, but some people make it even more complex than it needs to be.

 

[Kung Pow Cream]

Jesus Christ why is this a thing

Because being normal or slightly different is now bad so they have to make excuses as to why they're normal or slightly different and then it becomes their entire identity because they found a group that doesn't find them gross and annoying so they're going to stay with that group until they die or become sane.

I don't want to have sex immediately when meeting someone? That's not right. That's not normal. I must label myself as something.

I don't actually care about gender at all? That doesn't make sense. I have to give myself a label.

There's actually an fair bit of overlap with being LGBT and autistic or ADHD. But it's kind of hard to determine if this stuff happens naturally or it's an "monkey see, monkey do" kind of thing.

There's been studies where people have found that a significant portion of asexual people are autistic.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

I think some circles are placing far too much weight on gender roles, causing others to question if they belong IN that narrative.
It's bullshit though. Tomboys and effeminate men have existed forever without needing a new identifier.

This cannot be stated enough. I've been watching some de-trans testimonies and a reoccurring theme amongst them is that they felt they could not behave like the opposite sex (e.g., women wearing suits or playing sports) without transitioning medically, it's actually insane because they were absolutely groomed into thinking that because of gender roles. NOT because of a genuine and persistent desire to have been born as the opposite sex.

People need to be told again that it's perfectly okay to not fit into a gender role WITHOUT needing to actually engage in medical or surgical changes to "modify" their sex. The 1980's really had a good thing going with androgynous celebrities and singers. They just looked cool but weren't completely mental about lopping off their dicks or tits. Nowadays kids are being recommended these surgeries, and frankly a lot of adult trans-identified people refuse to get GRS because they know it's fucking irreversible and hurts.

 

[The Emperor Skeksis]

This cannot be stated enough. I've been watching some de-trans testimonies and a reoccurring theme amongst them is that they felt they could not behave like the opposite sex (e.g., women wearing suits or playing sports) without transitioning medically, it's actually insane because they were absolutely groomed into thinking that because of gender roles. NOT because of a genuine and persistent desire to have been born as the opposite sex.

It's mind-boggling to me that we got here. Young people saying and thinking they can't escape 'prescribed' gender roles. In the West gender roles have not been prescribed for a very very long time, and even then there were exceptions. I understand young people can't think critically very well as their brains aren't fully developed, but it's like they have no eyes to look around and see other people in the real world. And it makes me so angry to hear detransitioners claim that they transitioned because of it, because it's complete bull. They're acting like they're living in some kind of rigid Muslim society while they're living in the most individualistic and free society the world has ever seen.

 

[AMHOLIO]

They're acting like they're living in some kind of rigid Muslim society while they're living in the most individualistic and free society the world

I always guess 4 things when this happens:

1. Autism and other disorders - some people cannot escape categories because their brain won't let them.
2. How they were raised - most of the west is for doig your own thing, but there are still holdouts who emphasize how the genders should act, particularly if you're in a more conservative area. Without unconditioning themselves, they might not ever change.
3. Abuse and/or Sexual Violence - these things can mess a motherfucker up, especially if they had less healthy tendencies and coping mechanisms in the first place. Paranoia sucks.
4. Effort - depending on the detransitioner, they might get more questions if they detransitioned than not. How do you explain your voice, your stubble, or even missing arm skin if you're FtM without being reminded that you fucked up? Transitioning doesn't attract the mentally strongest in the first place and it sucks, but I sort of understand not doing it if the damage has been too much.

I don't know if there are more reasons or if I'm wrong but this is what I observed.