Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Spangled Drongo]

It's mind-boggling to me that we got here. Young people saying and thinking they can't escape 'prescribed' gender roles. In the West gender roles have not been prescribed for a very very long time, and even then there were exceptions. I understand young people can't think critically very well as their brains aren't fully developed, but it's like they have no eyes to look around and see other people in the real world. And it makes me so angry to hear detransitioners claim that they transitioned because of it, because it's complete bull. They're acting like they're living in some kind of rigid Muslim society while they're living in the most individualistic and free society the world has ever seen.

Social expectations can be pretty bad for teenagers specifically though - especially girls who are being forced to grow up faster than ever before. I blame influencers and other celebrities, who are telling girls it's "cool" to cake their faces in makeup and wear designer clothes. And if you're not into that, or any other fad that might be specific to where you live (in my case, I grew up surrounded by two kinds of people - complete normies, and snobby hipsters, and didn't fit in with either), then what? There's all this info out there telling kids that if they have an unconventional interest for their sex and discomfort around puberty, they need to troon out ASAP, and not enough "you can be any type of person you wish without labelling yourself" because you just know someone is going to spin that as "transphobic". Ultimately nobody else can tell you how to feel, but some really do underestimate how easily influenced by others teenagers and young adults are.

 

[The Emperor Skeksis]

Social expectations can be pretty bad for teenagers specifically though - especially girls who are being forced to grow up faster than ever before. I blame influencers and other celebrities, who are telling girls it's "cool" to cake their faces in makeup and wear designer clothes. And if you're not into that, or any other fad that might be specific to where you live (in my case, I grew up surrounded by two kinds of people - complete normies, and snobby hipsters, and didn't fit in with either), then what? There's all this info out there telling kids that if they have an unconventional interest for their sex and discomfort around puberty, they need to troon out ASAP, and not enough "you can be any type of person you wish without labelling yourself" because you just know someone is going to spin that as "transphobic". Ultimately nobody else can tell you how to feel, but some really do underestimate how easily influenced by others teenagers and young adults are.

I guess I can't relate because I never had that experience. 'You can be whoever you want to be and dress how you like' was the norm in my home and school environment growing up. And I was the weird kid who did not fit in and was only friends with other weirdos (hippies and goths, and one Jehovah's Witness), who didn't play sports, wasn't feminine and had a mad case of acne, etc. And still neither I nor my friends ever considered that we weren't girls or not feminine enough. Maybe the difference really is the omni-present media and social media of today. I try to understand where these trans youngsters are coming from, but perhaps I just don't get it at all.

 

[Spangled Drongo]

I guess I can't relate because I never had that experience. 'You can be whoever you want to be and dress how you like' was the norm in my home and school environment growing up. And I was the weird kid who did not fit in and was only friends with other weirdos (hippies and goths, and one Jehovah's Witness), who didn't play sports, wasn't feminine and had a mad case of acne, etc. And still neither I nor my friends ever considered that we weren't girls or not feminine enough. Maybe the difference really is the omni-present media and social media of today. I try to understand where these trans youngsters are coming from, but perhaps I just don't get it at all.

Not only social media - it might have been limited to Tumblr and the like when I was growing up, but apparently troon shit is now part of the school curriculum in many places. So if all these authority figures are telling kids "a lack of conformity to gender stereotypes and discomfort with your body means you might be trans" a lot of them are going to believe it, and even if they're good at critical thinking, it's pushed on them in a way that doesn't allow for dissent.

And back when I was a teen on Tumblr and went through a whole phase of questioning my gender identity it was nowhere near as widespread as it is now - the reason it was easy for me to leave the ideology and think critically about it was that there was no real benefit in telling all your peers you have a new name and pronouns, it would have made you a subject of ridicule in those days. But now it's spilled out from the internet into the real world, the response has changed to "you're so valid!" and this echo chamber mentality has made it near impossible for these kids to receive any of the pushback they need in order to realise this ideology is a load of BS and doing more harm than good.

 

[DumbDude42]

I think some circles are placing far too much weight on gender roles, causing others to question if they belong IN that narrative.

also keep in mind that the gender roles promoted by modern (pop) culture are twisted and dysfunctional to the extreme, they basically boil down to "loud mouthed antisocial wannabe alpha" for boys and "bitchy narcissist turboslut" for girls

 

[Osmosis Jones]

This girl sounds a lot like one of my current roommates - she's nonbinary and going only by they/them, also a talented artist who even makes a little side income out of it, and while not a furry she does have some stuff around the house that suggests she might be into Wicca. She's also self-proclaimed bi, though has only been in relationships with guys to my knowledge. She mentioned that she felt she was bi just because she felt attraction to fictional female characters.
I always thought it was really odd that she identifies as a they/them NB - like your friend, she dresses very feminine, mostly wearing dresses even. In general, she just presents herself as very feminine in every way. She's into cooking, gardening, all that stuff. The only hobbies she's into that aren't outright associated with femininity are fencing and gaming (which she just got into this year). She's got a large friend group with a healthy social life, high academic achievement, and is co-captain of said fencing club. So I don't really understand her need to be a special snowflake. I know she's deep enough into the woke stuff that she flies an LGBT flag on our front window, so maybe she feels the need to push herself into being a part of that crowd rather than just being an ally/supporter, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I'll admit that I have and still dabble with the idea of identifying as NB. Though I don't give a shit about pronouns and think it's ridiculous to try and enforce others to call you by a certain set of them. But in my case, in contrast to my roommate, I've always dressed in a more masculine or neutral way outside of special occasions. In general, I have more male-oriented hobbies and interests, and my behavior/personality is more leaning-masculine or neutral. I consider myself straight, but I hate having to play the role of the female in relationships. Now, could all this be because I had a shitty, emotionally-absent mother and no decent female role models throughout my life? Possibly. I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance. I guess that's the issue for troons, too.
I've never felt gender dysphoria, or any desire to modify my body, because I don't see a reason to. I agree with the general consensus that all that shit does is reinforce prescribed gender roles and expectations. It's what makes me question the whole NB thing, too - I'm only thinking I should be considered NB because I don't fit the stereotypes of being a girl.
For me, calling myself NB has nothing to do with wanting to be a snowflake - I couldn't care less about winning approval points from the often-misguided LGBT community - and more of the idea that NB is a "warning label" telling people not to expect me to act in ways that align with my birth sex.
As absolutely stupid as all this troon shit is, I do think it raises some fascinating questions about prescribed gender roles associated with birth sex, and all that.
It raises a perhaps disturbing question about whether any natural deviation from said sex-assigned gender roles is caused only by things such as failed parenting, as in my case.

That's a whole other rabbit hole, though. Sadly, the vast majority of troons lack the basic self-awareness to even realize those questions at all, much less think about them.

Stop.

I've been down that rabbit hole. Mental health is a bitch. The Troon movement is a cognitive salad that asks to be arranged neatly. You can't do it. The fact that you're having these sort of considerations at all points to a larger issue in your personality or wellbeing. The entire idea is purposefully open-ended and has no real solution because it continues to confuse people with cognitive issues, especially related to emotional health and maturity and sexual maturity.

Gender never fucking mattered before this movement. You didn't consider it before and you shouldn't consider it now. This isn't part of some modern-rationalism that makes us a better species or society, it's a disease of the mind that we can't understand. There have been many, many cases of mass hysteria in history and this will go down as one of them.

I'm sure you've already been replied to by others but as a person who has had serious mental health problems and almost got sucked into that abyssal horror, please stop before you latch onto it.

 

[Aunt Carol]

Not only social media - it might have been limited to Tumblr and the like when I was growing up, but apparently troon shit is now part of the school curriculum in many places. So if all these authority figures are telling kids "a lack of conformity to gender stereotypes and discomfort with your body means you might be trans" a lot of them are going to believe it, and even if they're good at critical thinking, it's pushed on them in a way that doesn't allow for dissent.

[...] the response has changed to "you're so valid!" and this echo chamber mentality has made it near impossible for these kids to receive any of the pushback they need in order to realise this ideology is a load of BS and doing more harm than good.

Having a class about it, especially encouraging kids to pick a neo-gender, is a lot like the altar call in the frenzy of a church service. Friends around you standing up, proclaiming that they're saved; maybe it's time to reexamine your soul again and look for a little hint of the spirit?

I mean "gender," not "soul;" sorry.

I hate how well the whole gender movement maps to religious practice, and how blind the euphoric atheists and the genderspecials are to that. They're accepting a meme and being used to pass it on to others in the same way they criticize from religion, using the same tactics and practices (plus the co-opting of the medical sphere).

 

[NerdShamer]

The entire idea is purposefully open-ended and has no real solution because it continues to confuse people with cognitive issues, especially related to emotional health and maturity and sexual maturity.

Behold! Exhibit A on what happens when you let the Internet babysit your children!

The Troon movement is a cognitive salad that asks to be arranged neatly.

It never asked to be categorized, there's an deliberate push to obfuscate what an woman actually is.

 

[Gender: Xenomorph]

I hate how well the whole gender movement maps to religious practice, and how blind the euphoric atheists and the genderspecials are to that. They're accepting a meme and being used to pass it on to others in the same way they criticize from religion, using the same tactics and practices (plus the co-opting of the medical sphere).

I'm genuinely sorry for people who actually believe this. They actually believe that the gender matters, that sex can be changed and, worst of all, that the whole process, or at the end of the whole process, their whole life will be better, only to find out that no, no and they've irreversibly damaged their body and cannot change back.

Getting flashbacks from the creationism era. Remember when creationists pushed their BS into schools and we had historical and archeological 'experts' with proof that the bible happened, pieces of noah's ark actually existed, etcetera.

 

[Wallace]

Getting flashbacks from the creationism era. Remember when creationists pushed their BS into schools and we had historical and archeological 'experts' with proof that the bible happened, pieces of noah's ark actually existed, etcetera.

Or when psychologists convinced people that they really did witness heinous acts of rape, murder, and even cannibalism of children via recovered-memory therapy.

It's mind-boggling to me that we got here. Young people saying and thinking they can't escape 'prescribed' gender roles. In the West gender roles have not been prescribed for a very very long time, and even then there were exceptions. I understand young people can't think critically very well as their brains aren't fully developed, but it's like they have no eyes to look around and see other people in the real world. And it makes me so angry to hear detransitioners claim that they transitioned because of it, because it's complete bull. They're acting like they're living in some kind of rigid Muslim society while they're living in the most individualistic and free society the world has ever seen.

Broke: Changing your gendered behavior to match your physiological sex.
Woke: Changing your physiological sex to match your gendered behavior.

 

[Jimmy Olsen]

Basically in an attempt to stop labeling people and break out of gender roles they've created new labels and more genders each with specific roles that must be followed.

The solution to stop putting people in boxes isn't to make more boxes, dammnit!

 

[Taco Salad]

Then there's people who completely misunderstand the term and think it means "am not attracted and willing to bone people on the spot" instead of natural over time attraction being much more normal than they realize.
Sex drive shouldn't equal sexuality imo. A low sex drive heterosexual is not a low sex drive homosexual and will face similar and different challenges. It only counts if sex AND romance don't do anything for you, period, since then you're out of the game.

I have felt compelled to put "grey-asexual" on any online dating profiles I make simply due to the sheer amount of times that I get guys messaging me who almost immediately want to talk about sex and their fetishes. It unfortunately has carried over into RL too, where three different guys I met up with who didn't pull that shit online tried to pressure me into having sex the first day we hung out together, after just a few weeks of knowing each other online. I tried to give in to their whims since they insisted that it was "normal" to do sexual stuff the first day (I refused to go all the way tho), but despite me thinking they were cute, it was just awkward as hell and pretty much took away what little attraction I had developed for them at this stage. It killed any chances for me to develop a deeper bond/trust with them and needless to say I didn't speak with any of them again afterwards.
According to all three of them, and randos online from dating sites, the fact that I don't want to go through with sexual stuff until there's already an established deep emotional bond and trust between us (which takes at least several months for me) makes me abnormal with a low-sex drive? When the heck did "fuck on the first date" become the norm, lol?
Just recently, this dude messaged me from Tinder and at first we were having a good convo about Star Wars (he saw me playing the mmo on Discord and used it as a conversation starter) and I was thinking he might end up being a cool friend to hang out with if nothing else... and then after 30 minutes the convo devolves into him going on and on and on about his foot fetish, and asking repeatedly about my foot size, and if I'll let him tickle my feet in-person, and how he already wants to intimately cuddle 30 mins after knowing me, asking when I can hang out irl... lol. And that's pretty much the norm for the messages I get from these sites. And I'm in my mid-late twenties, and so were all these dudes, so it's not like this is just some weird teen stuff.
Admittedly, all of these guys were without a doubt on the autism spectrum, because I'm apparently a magnet for autists.

I agree that the rise of this whole label culture and major increase in troon shenanigans absolutely seems to correlate with autism. The need to organize and label things makes sense in that regard. I wonder when the rest of society will figure this correlation out so we can finally move on. Still, it's pretty fascinating (though deeply disturbing) that such an awkward subgroup of people could alter the fabric of society to this degree.

 

[Bob jensen]

The different likes and dislikes, modes of dress, hair styles, hobbies, behaviors, whatever are what make us individuals, regardless of gender. That's something we should each be proud of and express freely however we choose, without being degenerates of course. Now, those qualities that make us each unique somehow need to be lumped into new boxes with new made up categories to erase the individual again. There is a very strange need to plug into the Borg, one with a very warped idea of perfection.

 

[AfghanBlue]

This girl sounds a lot like one of my current roommates - she's nonbinary and going only by they/them, also a talented artist who even makes a little side income out of it, and while not a furry she does have some stuff around the house that suggests she might be into Wicca. She's also self-proclaimed bi, though has only been in relationships with guys to my knowledge. She mentioned that she felt she was bi just because she felt attraction to fictional female characters.
I always thought it was really odd that she identifies as a they/them NB - like your friend, she dresses very feminine, mostly wearing dresses even. In general, she just presents herself as very feminine in every way. She's into cooking, gardening, all that stuff. The only hobbies she's into that aren't outright associated with femininity are fencing and gaming (which she just got into this year). She's got a large friend group with a healthy social life, high academic achievement, and is co-captain of said fencing club. So I don't really understand her need to be a special snowflake. I know she's deep enough into the woke stuff that she flies an LGBT flag on our front window, so maybe she feels the need to push herself into being a part of that crowd rather than just being an ally/supporter, I dunno.

Meanwhile, I'll admit that I have and still dabble with the idea of identifying as NB. Though I don't give a shit about pronouns and think it's ridiculous to try and enforce others to call you by a certain set of them. But in my case, in contrast to my roommate, I've always dressed in a more masculine or neutral way outside of special occasions. In general, I have more male-oriented hobbies and interests, and my behavior/personality is more leaning-masculine or neutral. I consider myself straight, but I hate having to play the role of the female in relationships. Now, could all this be because I had a shitty, emotionally-absent mother and no decent female role models throughout my life? Possibly. I don't know if my masculine-leaning personality & demeanor is truly me, or just the pure product of circumstance. I guess that's the issue for troons, too.
I've never felt gender dysphoria, or any desire to modify my body, because I don't see a reason to. I agree with the general consensus that all that shit does is reinforce prescribed gender roles and expectations. It's what makes me question the whole NB thing, too - I'm only thinking I should be considered NB because I don't fit the stereotypes of being a girl.
For me, calling myself NB has nothing to do with wanting to be a snowflake - I couldn't care less about winning approval points from the often-misguided LGBT community - and more of the idea that NB is a "warning label" telling people not to expect me to act in ways that align with my birth sex.
As absolutely stupid as all this troon shit is, I do think it raises some fascinating questions about prescribed gender roles associated with birth sex, and all that.
It raises a perhaps disturbing question about whether any natural deviation from said sex-assigned gender roles is caused only by things such as failed parenting, as in my case.

That's a whole other rabbit hole, though. Sadly, the vast majority of troons lack the basic self-awareness to even realize those questions at all, much less think about them.

Bruh why call yourself non binary/ why not be a good example of the fact that “woman” doesn’t have to mean anything other than what body you chanced to be born into a a couple of things that effects.

By using that label you are only helping along that poisonous ideology by example
- ditto “grey sexual” : you shouldn’t have to perform some sexualityspecial label in order to get thru to bone heads who won’t take it in anyway, that sending dick pics and talking lewd instantly isn’t the way to act/
Once again, just being a normal person instead of some dumb category is a much better example of behaviour

 

[Bob jensen]

When the heck did "fuck on the first date" become the norm, lol?

When dating sites became the norm... Not discounting they've worked for many people, but for the most part that's what they've devolved into.

 

[Wallace]

When dating sites became the norm... Not discounting they've worked for many people, but for the most part that's what they've devolved into.

Also when sex became a status symbol. Teen culture in years past was very heavily sexualized.

 

[Bob jensen]

Also when sex became a status symbol. Teen culture in years past was very heavily sexualized.

True, and it's only going to get worse with schools wanting to talk about it in classrooms of very young children.

What is the end goal?

 

[DumbDude42]

Basically in an attempt to stop labeling people and break out of gender roles they've created new labels and more genders each with specific roles that must be followed.

The solution to stop putting people in boxes isn't to make more boxes, dammnit!

categorizing people into groups based on common traits is human nature. trying to socially engineer people into not doing it is a fool's errand.
the correct reaction to this whole retardation is recognizing and accepting that there never was anything wrong with the traditional "man" and "woman" gender roles, and that trying to destroy them is what caused this whole mess in the first place.

 

[Nointey]

I am aware that this is for "loved ones", but i am not sure where to put this as i wanted to record my experiences with these fuckers, so i decided to put it here. If its not allowed then i will delete it

Spoiler: Very Very long

I did make a post on here but it was short, so i might as well make a long text about my experiences with trannies and how i grew to dislike them over the years

In my actual life i have yet to meet one thankfully (as most of them are likely in california or some shit), but i have met some on the internet obviously and have seen their behaviour over the years. Many of the ones i met all were often involved with "Retro Revivals", a term i made up to describe basically any revival of either shut down or old versions of games or websites in general. Many of the troons often held fairly high positions of power in these revivals, some of them even being Youtubers that promoted the retro shit. My first experience with one was an Admin of an old Roblox clone, who had his own little server of friends where they would often talk about video games (Often those from the developer behind that Mogekos castle game) or just have VC autism sessions where they would talk about random shit.

For a decent amount of the time he was active, he would often have an emotional freakout in which he would threaten suicide and push anybody around them away when they were trying to calm him the fuck down. These would go on for about an hour before he eventually just stopped on his own and went offline. These freakouts would often either happen on their own or be instigated by someone, one of these examples would be when he sperged because some dude mocked him due to pinging everyone.

And don't think that guy was the only one out of the bunch, he also had some type of "side bitch" troon who was some Texan that larped as a commie. It was the most pathetic shit ever and i'm willing to bet he has either dropped it or has become the same depressed hunk of meat the other guy was. After a while the Admin dude started to believe he was an actual schizophrenic (which was pretty fucking obvious) and would eventually leave the the community completely sometime after i left the "retro scene" behind (for clarity I left it all sometime in November- December 2020, he would leave at some point in 2021 to my knowledge, sometime before the "retro clone" got taken down by the game devs of the original lmao)

Another group of them i experienced was in a server dedicated to a former mutual i used to know who went by "Perry" at the time, i say "mutual" because i actually knew her (yes it was an actual woman and not a troon) from an Youtube clone with the old layout, and she was actually pretty nice when i first met her back then.

Her server was filled with Nintenfags often related to the retro scene or Twitter "Coders" who ranged from "alright i guess" to absolute assholes, some of the massive asshats often went into full blown outbursts over being called out for being a dumbass. An obvious side effect from having all of those types merged into one was obviously the troons, to which there was at 5 of them, but i only ever saw the actions of the two that i will talk about right now.

The First Troon was the son of some dude in the army, and would often move around the states a decent amount of the time. He would often host some autist paradise server in minecraft in which he would invite people to, often from either the retro servers i was on or my former mutuals server. He was a massive dipshit, often acting like an obnoxious motherfucker who sperged out about politics (he was a leftist of course), especially during the lead up to the 2020 election to the point he claimed that he fucking sung the US anthem after Joj Bidet won Georgia.

The Second Troon often orbited between some odd form of edginess (which is larper girl shit that is usual for a tranny mixed with old shooter games) or being a suicidal wreck that was on par with the Admin guy i talked about earlier, which often resulted in the same outcome of him eventually getting exhausted and fucking off to bed. Unlike with the first two, this troon was actually disliked by a decent amount of the community, to the point they would shit on him behind his back in alternate servers that were made for reasons i'll get into right now.

Sometime during Mid-2020, the behaviour of my former mutual slowly developed into that of an average Twitter "stan". At first it was some differences in personality, but would become far more noticeable when she started to display the mannerisms of a stan, especially when she started mentioning Kpop bullshit. It was akin to seeing a movie scene where some character turns into a zombie, albeit instead of being instant it was more slow and depressing for me to see as she was actually a nice person before she changed. This was also likely noticed by others in that server, as overtime dislike to her started to grow, with even her closest high ranked mod fuckbuddies noticing her massive change in attitude. This lead to a few "alternate" servers being created, which never really lasted long before either going inactive or shutting down. However, this would all ultimately climax with my former mutual getting "exposed" for something i can't remember (likely some bogus reason just to get rid of her as she was that annoying at that point), which would lead to the whole server going into "lockdown". Although the server remained for the few that joined before it was locked off to the public, i would delete my account not long after. This would be the last time i came into contact with an internet troon in a "non-aggressive" way, as i finally realized just how fucked up and sick these people really are

In Retrospect, i've come to realize just how similar all these trannies really are, for example:
>All of them had a shitty home life
>All of them were either spoiled or mentally ill (maybe both in some cases)
>All of them would suicide bait, likely as a way to either garner attention or "woe is me" points

Now that i think about it 2 - 3 years later, all of them likely used their troonism as a way to gain attention or as a "cry for help". It wouldn't honestly surprise me if i went into an alternate timeline where they were born earlier and they developed into Emo Myspace artists from the 2000s In general, its an absolute shame that these peoples obvious mental illnesses went unchecked because "THEY'RE HAPPY THE WAY THEY ARE!" when that obviously isn't the case as most of them were still depressed attention-seeking meatsacs.

What i regret the most is that i didn't rip off their troon tinted glasses at the time as i was still under the belief that perhaps "it wasn't JUST because of their troonism", but in reality it very damn well was. These people have issues, and they larp on as women because they think they're going to "Get better" if they do so, but in reality they're merely putting salt on an obvious deeper issue that they haven't sorted out yet. Its honestly fucking disgusting that the media fucking encourages Troonism to people like this as some type of "cure".

Sorry for the long text, i always wanted to vent my past experiences with these people

 

[Jimmy Olsen]

categorizing people into groups based on common traits is human nature. trying to socially engineer people into not doing it is a fool's errand.
the correct reaction to this whole retardation is recognizing and accepting that there never was anything wrong with the traditional "man" and "woman" gender roles, and that trying to destroy them is what caused this whole mess in the first place.

I wasn't saying everything about traditional gender roles is wrong or that categorization is always a bad thing.Men and women should be seen as different because they are, and I'm fine with traditional gender roles. All I'm saying is people who don't perfectly fit into them should still be seen as and be comfortable in their birth gender and don't need to invent a new one just because they're a little more sensitive or like cars.

But I am a bit more lefty in that I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with not perfectly fitting into those roles just so long as you still have a connection to reality and don't take it to extreme levels. Basically, the difference between a guy who likes knitting his own gloves and being his children's primary caregiver vs a guy who runs around town in nail polish a schoolgirl outfit.

I don't mind you or anyone else disagreeing though. It's more interesting to read something that one disagrees with but is well-though out and not in crazy-town rather than someone who agrees with everything.

 

[Wally Gator]

I've got a friend at work who's a non-binary dude. Full beard, fucks women, is ok with being "misgendered" in public. Generally a chill dude, but just doesn't really feel fully male for what ever that means. One of the good ones as far as the whole NB thing goes I reckon.

He's dating this adorable girl. She's bubbly, funny, cute, and as far as I know goes by she/her (at least I've never been corrected for calling her that). Just positive, feminine energy radiating from this chick. We're working today and my friend casually drops that she's getting top surgery next month. It really fucking stung me. She's so blatantly a woman. A straight woman at that. I just can't fathom having a double mastectomy for funsies. Just cause you've got short hair. How many women are gonna wake up in ten years, look at their scars and weep? I'm usually ok with people doing whatever the fuck they want. It's your body, have at it. But there's something about this one that's sticking to me.