Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[Local Fed]

But there's something about this one that's sticking to me.

Maybe I'm just projecting here, but it probably sticks to you because you're watching self-inflicted destruction of something beautiful. That's how I feel about tattoos (obviously not as extreme as having your tits chopped off) a lot of the time (not so much just little ones that every basic bitch gets by their mid-twenties, but more like when they end up with it being that you can see more ink than skin.)

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

Not only social media - it might have been limited to Tumblr and the like when I was growing up, but apparently troon shit is now part of the school curriculum in many places. So if all these authority figures are telling kids "a lack of conformity to gender stereotypes and discomfort with your body means you might be trans"

This. All of this shit is happening because the adults are putting ideas in the kids heads. You go on TikTok and see hundreds of teachers preaching about transness, it's all in the open. Kids are being pressured to "announce their identity" at the most tender of ages, instead of being allowed to just exist and figure out how they feel by themselves, without adult influence.

 

[BelUwUga]

This. All of this shit is happening because the adults are putting ideas in the kids heads. You go on TikTok and see hundreds of teachers preaching about transness, it's all in the open. Kids are being pressured to "announce their identity" at the most tender of ages, instead of being allowed to just exist and figure out how they feel by themselves, without adult influence.

To think, my parents and other parents lost their shit over my middle school having a cheeky idea to have us pick a "major" at 12 just to start thinking about our futures and doing a little project on it. It was meaningless in hindsight but they were rightly losing their shit because it did make 12 year old me distressed I had to pick the "right one." I cannot imagine the mental toll shit like this pushed even younger takes.

 

[Ser Prize]

I have felt compelled to put "grey-asexual" on any online dating profiles I make simply due to the sheer amount of times that I get guys messaging me who almost immediately want to talk about sex and their fetishes. It unfortunately has carried over into RL too, where three different guys I met up with who didn't pull that shit online tried to pressure me into having sex the first day we hung out together, after just a few weeks of knowing each other online. I tried to give in to their whims since they insisted that it was "normal" to do sexual stuff the first day (I refused to go all the way tho), but despite me thinking they were cute, it was just awkward as hell and pretty much took away what little attraction I had developed for them at this stage. It killed any chances for me to develop a deeper bond/trust with them and needless to say I didn't speak with any of them again afterwards.
According to all three of them, and randos online from dating sites, the fact that I don't want to go through with sexual stuff until there's already an established deep emotional bond and trust between us (which takes at least several months for me) makes me abnormal with a low-sex drive? When the heck did "fuck on the first date" become the norm, lol?
Just recently, this dude messaged me from Tinder and at first we were having a good convo about Star Wars (he saw me playing the mmo on Discord and used it as a conversation starter) and I was thinking he might end up being a cool friend to hang out with if nothing else... and then after 30 minutes the convo devolves into him going on and on and on about his foot fetish, and asking repeatedly about my foot size, and if I'll let him tickle my feet in-person, and how he already wants to intimately cuddle 30 mins after knowing me, asking when I can hang out irl... lol. And that's pretty much the norm for the messages I get from these sites. And I'm in my mid-late twenties, and so were all these dudes, so it's not like this is just some weird teen stuff.
Admittedly, all of these guys were without a doubt on the autism spectrum, because I'm apparently a magnet for autists.

I agree that the rise of this whole label culture and major increase in troon shenanigans absolutely seems to correlate with autism. The need to organize and label things makes sense in that regard. I wonder when the rest of society will figure this correlation out so we can finally move on. Still, it's pretty fascinating (though deeply disturbing) that such an awkward subgroup of people could alter the fabric of society to this degree.

You aren't unusual in wanting to have more than "hi" before jumping into bed; don't let people say otherwise. They're the abnormal ones, not you.

That said dating apps are glorified hook up finders so you're mostly gonna get that using those.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

tried to pressure me into having sex the first day we hung out together, after just a few weeks of knowing each other online. I tried to give in to their whims since they insisted that it was "normal" to do sexual stuff the first day

THIS IS SUPER RAPEY, DON'T LET STRANGERS FUCK YOU

 

[AMHOLIO]

Seriously, @Taco Salad , what Ser Prize said. Get off dating apps unless you put "no hookups" and instantly block whoever wants a quick fuck (because horndogs don't read or try anyway). Most dating sites devolved into weird hookup culture. Go to a place like church, a hobby group or meet up, or any place where people who want to mingle and date like normies hang out and perverts are cut down on since it's harder to whip out dick pics irl. You're sticking yourself into an area full of shit people when you're not feeling great yourself, get the fuck out for your sake.

@90theguy I'll take any story or vent as long as there's a trans or troon in it, no love required, that's more for encouraging people to let out emotions they feel about loved ones and get support for it rather than the sole focus. There's the trans encounters thread in lolcow general which is always interesting if you want to give that a read.

(Often those from the developer behind that Mogekos castle game)

Isn't that a game where you can get raped to death? No wonder.

Sorry for the long text, i always wanted to vent my past experiences with these people

No apologies needed fren.
Retro video games in small niches like PS1 &2 nostalgia tend to be genderspecial haven since they're not autistic enough to be difficult to normies but just out of reach enough to appeal to nostalgic autist who also hop on bandwagons (troon or not since you can be fucking annoying either way). It's an easy place to attention whore since you're around other nerds who fall into the geek behavioral fallacies and they're easier to get to give you attention because of it. Sorry the hobby is filled with those types, hope you found new spaces to enjoy games.

I'm sure you've already been replied to by others but as a person who has had serious mental health problems and almost got sucked into that abyssal horror, please stop before you latch onto it.

You can't fuck osmosis jones but this post is great and I would have sex with it.

I hate how well the whole gender movement maps to religious practice, and how blind the euphoric atheists and the genderspecials are to that. They're accepting a meme and being used to pass it on to others in the same way they criticize from religion, using the same tactics and practices (plus the co-opting of the medical sphere).

I wish spiritual movements that didn't have the baggage of organized religion were more popular. Make a modern religion/spiritual/psychological movement that follows some gentle rules and maybe has a fantastical element here and there to attract nerds and those looking for a touch of mystery in their lives.

The problem with this is the people, sadly. You can preach kindness and stress friendliness but there will always be splinter groups and people interested in twisting the words to their own way.

For now, comparing troonism as much as you can to religion is the best way to get people to notice and talk. The more butthurt the better. And encourage people to get into self improvement circles of course.

Now, those qualities that make us each unique somehow need to be lumped into new boxes with new made up categories to erase the individual again. There is a very strange need to plug into the Borg, one with a very warped idea of perfection.

Humans love categories. It's why we always had some sort of cliques, sub cultures, class cultures, and so forth. We won't ever be able to distance ourselves fully from tribalism (as a sense of belonging and pride is not bad, it's how you handle it) but encouraging people to make their own groups of like minded people even if they don't fall into a label is key.

Humans also like labels as shortcuts to finding others like them and gaining community faster: I'll feel more akin to someone if I know they like something similar to me or had similar experiences to me. This isn't always bad, groups for hobbies and experiences have existed for ages and of course that's not something you or anyone else protests against. The problem is people adopting labels to gain immediate communities because they're afraid of being alone and jump into the first place that accepts offbeat behavior instead of slowly amassing like minded friends. Or obtaining high status from being the loudest believer like a lazy asshole of course. That's where the borg come in and assimilate others: lonely? Join the collective! It helped me, it MUST help you (or you're an enemy as I have learned from my borg peers).

Basically you're right, we got to encourage people to embrace their traits and interest so they can find others with those interest, not fall into a narrow minded hivemind. Individuality and tolerance for those who aren't exactly the same -> more communities in general and more that let like minded people hang without cattle prodding those who don't conform.

the correct reaction to this whole retardation is recognizing and accepting that there never was anything wrong with the traditional "man" and "woman" gender roles, and that trying to destroy them is what caused this whole mess in the first place.

What? I see where you're coming from, but there's got to be room for freedom of expression. ROGD detransitioners cite not being like a stereotypical man or woman as one of if not the biggest reason they transition.

We shouldn't demonize acting like your sex nor force people to act outside of what roles they want even if they're "stereotypical", but we should balance and respect the rights of those who don't want to either. The problem is the later group being a bitch to the former: it's cool to hate gender stereotypes, so people with too much bile or people who need to shit on SOMETHING to make themselves feel better are numerous and loud and are fucking with those who want to act how they like. Tl,;dr, both sides should respect each other, the people breaking norms are on top right now and need to stop acting like colossal pricks though. Balance is key.

To think, my parents and other parents lost their shit over my middle school having a cheeky idea to have us pick a "major" at 12 just to start thinking about our futures and doing a little project on it. It was meaningless in hindsight but they were rightly losing their shit because it did make 12 year old me distressed I had to pick the "right one." I cannot imagine the mental toll shit like this pushed even younger takes.

Same. Fuck schools who do either, and double fuck schools that do both.

 

[Spangled Drongo]

@Taco Salad , I do understand where you're coming from with the desire to label yourself - I've been there - but all I can say is, don't. Rather than capitulating to the woke demands of using extremely specific terms to categorise yourself that didn't exist until very recently, be the example you want to see - someone who simply exists as an individual with a personality and no need for all these batshit microlabels. If more people rejected this non binary nonsense, we'd be back to how things were in the 2000s and early 2010s, when there was this understanding that one can have any combination of interests and personality traits but that doesn't need to be justified by making up words.

This. All of this shit is happening because the adults are putting ideas in the kids heads. You go on TikTok and see hundreds of teachers preaching about transness, it's all in the open. Kids are being pressured to "announce their identity" at the most tender of ages, instead of being allowed to just exist and figure out how they feel by themselves, without adult influence.

The whole trend of teachers + other school staff encouraging kids to keep secrets from their parents, as well, is worrying. I'm not old at all, but I remember it always used to be stressed that teachers aren't there to be your friend, but to simply do their job and encourage you to grow into at least a somewhat decent human being. It's something that's come up a lot in this whole discussion - kids changing genders and pronouns at school, some even getting free hormones from the nurse's office, but parents being left in the dark and only finding out what their kid is doing through word of mouth, or that case in Canada where the dad was arrested for refusing to go along with his daughter's troon identity which he only found out about when her yearbook came home with a male name under her photo. Obviously mental health is important, and it's good for these kids to have someone they can turn to for support outside of their home, but it's also insane that this shit is being snuck in under "anti-bullying". It was already starting to be taught when I was in high school, trans shit hadn't quite become so popular then, but it was an entire fucking class on how not to be homophobic, with no mention of anything else.

 

[Ser Prize]

@Taco Salad , I do understand where you're coming from with the desire to label yourself - I've been there - but all I can say is, don't. Rather than capitulating to the woke demands of using extremely specific terms to categorise yourself that didn't exist until very recently, be the example you want to see - someone who simply exists as an individual with a personality and no need for all these batshit microlabels. If more people rejected this non binary nonsense, we'd be back to how things were in the 2000s and early 2010s, when there was this understanding that one can have any combination of interests and personality traits but that doesn't need to be justified by making up words.


The whole trend of teachers + other school staff encouraging kids to keep secrets from their parents, as well, is worrying. I'm not old at all, but I remember it always used to be stressed that teachers aren't there to be your friend, but to simply do their job and encourage you to grow into at least a somewhat decent human being. It's something that's come up a lot in this whole discussion - kids changing genders and pronouns at school, some even getting free hormones from the nurse's office, but parents being left in the dark and only finding out what their kid is doing through word of mouth, or that case in Canada where the dad was arrested for refusing to go along with his daughter's troon identity which he only found out about when her yearbook came home with a male name under her photo. Obviously mental health is important, and it's good for these kids to have someone they can turn to for support outside of their home, but it's also insane that this shit is being snuck in under "anti-bullying". It was already starting to be taught when I was in high school, trans shit hadn't quite become so popular then, but it was an entire fucking class on how not to be homophobic, with no mention of anything else.

It's because the whole "student secretly gay/trans/whatever but has to hide from BIGOT PARENTS" is a big fucking romanticized cliche. Every activist teacher and staff member wants to be the personal enabler, not understanding that these are kids being sucked up in an awful trend and that they're doing them harm, not good.

That's all this shit is at the end of the day: a trend. Like goth or hippies. A trend where healthy young men and women cut their pieces off and shoot hormones that wrecks their bodies. A trend push by media, by sappy fag-obsessed moms and wine aunts. A trend that's gonna pass and you'll be left with these poor fucks left behind, with no recourse or ability to reclaim what they've given up.

I don't know if it was the same for goth and hippies but the more I see this trend the more I see a religion. A cult. It's fucking deranged. And David Reimer died trying to warn people.

 

[Jimmy Olsen]

I apologize for derailing the thread, but reading the last few posts I couldn't help but be reminded of this.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I don't know if it was the same for goth and hippies but the more I see this trend the more I see a religion. A cult. It's fucking deranged. And David Reimer died trying to warn people.

Come out as goth: you wear black clothes, like the Cure, write shitty poetry, and maybe do drugs behind the gym shed. So you were likely to be ignored in general or reported for the later. You likely were unable to hide it anyway since part ofnit was rebellion and you had to do your own laundry. Parents usually left rolling their eyes, most understood it was a phase.

Come out as a hippie: depends on the hippie type. Were you like the goths who dressed funny, enjoyed music, and maybe did drugs behind the bleachers, or were you actively swept up in the political subculture? If the later, there's a change your high school teacher or college professor help radicalized you in the first place. You drop out of school to join a community of weirdos? You spend your spare time protesting radical causes and doing proto antifa things? That shit is cult behavior or primes you for one (see the Children of God, where a good portion of the first converts were made of people burned out by the hippie lifestyle). History occasionally repeats, man.

I apologize for derailing the thread, but reading the last few posts I couldn't help but be reminded of this.

Thanks, this is perfect.

 

[SaltyFanta]

Just found an old acquaintance's Twitter account, full of the classic whining about JK Rowling and Terfs, they don't seem to be doing as well as they used to. They've also got a weird Garfield obsession going on. Man I wonder what happened to that guy

 

[Vingle]

They've also got a weird Garfield obsession going on

So he eat a lot of lasagna?

 

[Lord Edge of Leetworth]

This thread is so fatalistic. Chances are if you've lost people to this fad you weren't close to them to begin with.

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

They've also got a weird Garfield obsession going on

Oh no, he catched the Quinton. he needs to be put down before it it metastasizes,

Spoiler

The Garfield stuff is a post ironic fashion meme thing among tumblrinas, like wearing black metal shirts when all they truly listen is Grimes and Kesha. its part of an aesthetic. Garfield has also taken a weird life on its own in some parts of the internet, it became very popular among tumblr artists to do weird fan art of it, including rule 34 and creepypasta. That specific wave of Garfield repurposing functions as its own fandom too, similar to what happened with the simpons getting mixed with vaporware

 

[Jimmy Olsen]

This thread is so fatalistic.

That's kind of the nature of a vent thread.

 

[Bob jensen]

This thread is so fatalistic. Chances are if you've lost people to this fad you weren't close to them to begin with.

Fuck off.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

Chances are if you've lost people to this fad you weren't close to them to begin with.

What does that even mean? You can't care about your past relationship with someone anymore if you don't agree with them being sexually groomed by Discord furries and Reddit jannies?

 

[Bob jensen]

Okay, since this is supposed to be a support thread, I'm asking for support/advice.

I've previously explained my position.

My trans daughter won't DO anything. Moved to another country for college, but had to return home almost exactly 2 yrs from today for COVID. Since then has stagnated into "muh disabilities"...

Suicidal ideation, self harm. Check all boxes.

She comes by it honestly I think (except for the trans part).

Is now undergoing DBT weekly.

WONT GET A JOB. volunteers at shelters because I threw her out several months ago and said she'd have to get a job, and while looking for a job, volunteer and do housework.

What next?

This is my child. My parents say send her to an abused women's shelter. I can't do that.

This is my child.

I haven't a clue what to do at this point.

 

[Bad Take Crucifier]

I haven't a clue what to do at this point.

I suspect one of the reasons your daughter doesn't want a real job or obligations is to have more time online in tranny groups/general fucking off, and also to avoid being around people who might question her. Volunteering may be an excuse to meet up with certain people because volunteer work is not a serious and easily confirmed obligation at all.

When you talk, there is going to be a lot of temptation to argue and point out what is obviously wrong to you, but most likely she's already been heavily soaked in counter-arguments to that stuff, from propaganda and shit online. The best move right now is to side step those conversations if you can, and focus on getting her away from the Internet on a daily basis. Whoever is enabling her behavior is the real enemy. In theory, if you can get her off whatever bullshit group she is in and into a healthy routine, she will forget a lot of this drama and start to focus on more productive and healthy goals. people are most likely putting ideas in her head or just telling her what she wants to hear.

When you're in a tough situation with a person who is stubborn and mentally unstable, sometimes a good way to build a bridge is to ask them why they are doing something, and ask what they think they need to get over it, in a non-hostile way. Try to figure out with them what the perceived road block is. And just listen. You're going to hear a lot of bullshit and excuses, but valuable information as well that may clue you in to some of what's going on. Less talk, more listening is key, let her blab.

It's also very important to "force" her to simply hear herself talk and justify it or explain what she thinks reality is. (Or at least hear what she want you to believe, because she won't always tell the truth.) She will argue with herself in real time. You may catch her in a lie but you don't want to call it out every time it happens. At the very least it gets her talking to you, and, hopefully, can reduce her perception of any hostility from you.

It may also make sense to ask questions like "What are your plans, what do you see yourself doing, who do you see yourself with in the future" etc. Long term planning questions. Because it's very likely she does not think about it or, if she does, her plans are delusional. She may admit her plans are even impossible because other people won't do what she wants to treat her like a "real man".

The key thing is NOT picking apart what she is saying, but rather leading her down a path where she has to explain herself and think it through. You will probably come up against a lot of frustration somewhere in this, and hear "I don't know what I'm going to do" and such. She may have some breakdowns as she realizes that she has no idea what she's doing. Which may lead to more opportunities to ask questions like "why do you want to do this/what do you think will happen/how can we fix this?" so on. Getting to the point she can honestly admit that she may be forever alone as a trans man is not gonna be easy. Just approach it from the side as much as possible, calling it out directly will most likely lead to screaming.

it really is hard. But when you're trying to bring a person down from a dangerous spot, it's very crucial to not "impose" on them directly what you want done, you will want to rush but don't, you will want to say she is killing herself but this will scare her if it is not the right time to say so. You have to very carefully approach it from the side and take small gains in trust where you can get them.

Right now the most important thing is not even really getting her to admit transition will be harmful or anything, the MOST important thing should be distracting her from whatever is feeding this addiction.

Get her to focus on any activity during the day that breaks up whatever toxic routine she may have with whoever is grooming her, this also gives her less of an excuse to run away from home again.

Getting new hobbies, making art, getting a small pet, going out for activities, watching movies, anything to take up time and hopefully also encourage her to get an actual job and off of the Internet. It will probably not be easy if you are trying to get her to spend more time with you at first, she may suspect you, but the important thing is just doing stuff for the sake of doing anything that's not online or with strangers.

 

[Bob jensen]

I suspect one of the reasons your daughter doesn't want a real job or obligations is to have more time online in tranny groups/general fucking off, and also to avoid being around people who might question her. Volunteering may be an excuse to meet up with certain people because volunteer work is not a serious and easily confirmed obligation at all.

When you talk, there is going to be a lot of temptation to argue and point out what is obviously wrong to you, but most likely she's already been heavily soaked in counter-arguments to that stuff, from propaganda and shit online. The best move right now is to side step those conversations if you can, and focus on getting her away from the Internet on a daily basis. Whoever is enabling her behavior is the real enemy. In theory, if you can get her off whatever bullshit group she is in and into a healthy routine, she will forget a lot of this drama and start to focus on more productive and healthy goals. people are most likely putting ideas in her head or just telling her what she wants to hear.

When you're in a tough situation with a person who is stubborn and mentally unstable, sometimes a good way to build a bridge is to ask them why they are doing something, and ask what they think they need to get over it, in a non-hostile way. Try to figure out with them what the perceived road block is. And just listen. You're going to hear a lot of bullshit and excuses, but valuable information as well that may clue you in to some of what's going on. Less talk, more listening is key, let her blab.

It's also very important to "force" her to simply hear herself talk and justify it or explain what she thinks reality is. (Or at least hear what she want you to believe, because she won't always tell the truth.) She will argue with herself in real time. You may catch her in a lie but you don't want to call it out every time it happens. At the very least it gets her talking to you, and, hopefully, can reduce her perception of any hostility from you.

It may also make sense to ask questions like "What are your plans, what do you see yourself doing, who do you see yourself with in the future" etc. Long term planning questions. Because it's very likely she does not think about it or, if she does, her plans are delusional. She may admit her plans are even impossible because other people won't do what she wants to treat her like a "real man".

The key thing is NOT picking apart what she is saying, but rather leading her down a path where she has to explain herself and think it through. You will probably come up against a lot of frustration somewhere in this, and hear "I don't know what I'm going to do" and such. She may have some breakdowns as she realizes that she has no idea what she's doing. Which may lead to more opportunities to ask questions like "why do you want to do this/what do you think will happen/how can we fix this?" so on. Getting to the point she can honestly admit that she may be forever alone as a trans man is not gonna be easy. Just approach it from the side as much as possible, calling it out directly will most likely lead to screaming.

it really is hard. But when you're trying to bring a person down from a dangerous spot, it's very crucial to not "impose" on them directly what you want done, you will want to rush but don't, you will want to say she is killing herself but this will scare her if it is not the right time to say so. You have to very carefully approach it from the side and take small gains in trust where you can get them.

Right now the most important thing is not even really getting her to admit transition will be harmful or anything, the MOST important thing should be distracting her from whatever is feeding this addiction.

Get her to focus on any activity during the day that breaks up whatever toxic routine she may have with whoever is grooming her, this also gives her less of an excuse to run away from home again.

Getting new hobbies, making art, getting a small pet, going out for activities, watching movies, anything to take up time and hopefully also encourage her to get an actual job and off of the Internet. It will probably not be easy if you are trying to get her to spend more time with you at first, she may suspect you, but the important thing is just doing stuff for the sake of doing anything that's not online or with strangers.

Do I block the router from sites? And how? I used to be well versed in this, but that was many moons ago. And with phones she can go around anything I block on wifi