Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

Actually, I trust Janeway to fight for my behalf. If I ended up imprisoned or otherwise at risk, Janeway is too much a maternal figure to not bring down the ceiling to get me back.

Janeway very much cares about the crew, she just doesn’t go out of her way to show it.

Sisko strikes me as only willing to do that if you’re part of the senior staff/his immediate friends and cronies. If your just a random starfleet officer on DS9 that gets wrongfully arrested by the bajorans, he isn’t going to go to bat for you. He might raise a complaint but he isn’t going to antagonize people he deems more important.

As for Kirk, he’s an action man who just accepts the losses as part of the job. I’d completely respect him, but I wouldn’t want to be a red shirt on the next planet he visits.
 
My vote goes to Phlox because I think he's the only doctor who would commit severe medical malpractise to save my life
It's a beguiling contradiction.

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Phlox is one of the Good Guys of ENT. He seems a bit of a fool, but he at least has a mind. In stark contrast to some characters.
 
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With me posting here I've decided to watch some older Trek so I am watching ST:Generations and I just thought of a way they can wrap up Picard and Discovery in one simple theft of fan theiory - Picard is never left the Nexus, he didn't rescue Kirk and He didn't stop sorren as a way to keep his fantasy alive and believable in his own mind everything after Generations is all in his brain, he got to keep on having adventures and still matterd as a old man who was given almost some form of immortality. He got to have wish fufillment in everything he did after such as toughing the Pheonix in First Contact, he got to see that he wasnt the last Picard in the form of his clone, he's also got to save all the crew that died in the crash and he's also resolved his interaction with the Borg, etc.
 
Okay, it's obvious what the finale of this season's building up to - Picard will use his experiences with his mother's depression and suicide to relate to his famous ancestor and talk her into going on the mission, both saving the future and letting Picard earn redemption for his accidental role in his mom's death.

You know what? Not being sarcastic or ironic at all, I would have applauded the producers had they gone with Picard's father as the one who suffered depression which correspondingly affected their relationship, because not only would it have added more depth to their backstory than Papa Picard just being an older and even grouchier version of Robert, but the topic of male depression is something that is far too often ignored by media. I don't doubt that they'd have found some way to fuck it up, but it would have been at least one redeeming factor in this clusterfuck of a show.

And you know what the kicker is? THEIR HALF ASSED EXPLANATION DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE HE HAS HER OLD WOMAN PICTURE IN GENERATIONS!

This has to be the worst written continuity out of anything ive ever seen before. Just..... absolutely half assed to the 9th degree.
Tbf, I actually didn't know about her photo being in Generations either, and I've seen that movie an ungodly number of times. I can forgive the producers missing little background details like that, but the fuck-ups in these new Trek shows (at least the live-action ones) go way beyond that sort of thing.

And, just to keep things fair, the first two seasons of Enterprise did give these new shows a run for their money in the continuity errors department. In the pilot episode alone we had the Federation making first contact with the Klingons about 50 years early, Qo'nos somehow being closer to Earth than Alpha Centauri, and the first contact itself being A-OK instead of a disaster that resulted in a century of hostilities between them.
 
Why even pretend to respect the IP at all when they clearly don’t?
Honestly, what is a nerdy, sciencey teen supposed to like? Science is way too much of a collaborative effort nowadays for there to really be individual heroes. Science fiction literature is shit (except China who apparently have some good stuff) now and nerd shows like Trek have been completely Disneyfied.
 
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My vote goes to Phlox because I think he's the only doctor who would commit severe medical malpractise to save my life
Would Bones grow a clone of you from a sentient organism then raise that clone to kill it to harvest its brain? I think not.
Phlox would be just as likely to not cure you of an easily treatable illness and then moralize that he's actually doing a good thing.
 
For me it increases the horror. It's like a big offshoot of personality that got wiped out as they were transformed into component drones for their ruling internet. Their history and culture is just forgotten because the cold machine deems it irrelevant. And they're going to do the same to you.

It puts me in mind of degenerative neural conditions like Alzheimers, but applied to an entire species. What makes you, you, an individual, is lost.
Foreboding isn't it.
Yeah, but that's kind of the problem. Any race can invent technology that eats your soul. The Borg are supposed to be something special, since they're far older and much more advanced than just about anything else.

Also specific to Star Trek is the problem that, if cybernetics eat your soul, why is it that only the Borg ended up the way they did? Shouldn't there be other cyberhivemind races that fell into the same trap? Star Trek has lots of races that fell to plagues, nuclear war, alien invasion, subspace assholes, or ruled over by insane AI, etc, but the closest we see to the Borg from anyone else are Bynars from that TNG episode where they rip off Star Trek 3. Obviously the out of universe explanation for this is that its a blind spot the writers couldn't really see back in the day since technology hadn't reduced society to a howling dystopian nightmare yet, but in universe it suggests there's something specific to the Borg that made them fall to it.

There's also the perennial joke explanation that the Borg were a civilization that fell prey to a Paperclip Maximizer AI, but that kind of goes back to the same problem I just said above.
 
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I’m gonna go with the EMH. I find him entertaining, and if I’m getting annoyed with him or feel like he’s being too smarmy at me, I can just annoy him back by requesting the computer turn the EMH off and on again.
 
I'm going to pick Spock as Captain by the way. Being a trainee under him on the Enterprise looks like it would have been a blast, other than the whole getting blown up by Khan thing which was Kirk's fault anyway. Also, once Kirk gets taken hostage by the Klingons, Spock pulls an entire rescue operation out of his ass and successfully infiltrates Klingon space with zero casualties. He's also less uptight in the movies than he was in the show.

Doctors is a hard one. I'm inclined to go with Bones since he's the most dedicated, and he's almost never taken out of action even when the ship is falling apart around him. The EMH would be my runner up. He's always on call, hyper competent, and because its Voyager he has more ridiculous technobabble solutions at his disposal.
 
Sisco's a war criminal. Fuck him.
If Captain Sisko ordered me to launch two quantum torpedoes (each strapped to a cargo pod filled with 200 kilograms of trilithium resin) at your planet, I would happily press the button.

launch em.png


Minor annoyance unrelated to things: in order to make this joke post I wanted to double-check some details so I typed in "for the uniform memory alpha" into Bing. Fucking Bing hurls all kinds of results at me for random Trek-related shit, up to and including a "for the uniform" entry on Memory Beta. But the Memory Alpha entry for the episode I am looking for is nowhere to be seen. How the fuck has their search engine become so shitty? I can only imagine how many other routines and bullshit algorithms are running under the hood doing everything except finding the webpage that I handed to it on a silver platter. In the end I just went into my archive, found the episode and jumped to the timestamp. FUCK.
 
You get the feeling that the DS9 sets where Alien, like a species we can understand and share an environment with but has a few small preferential differences like Heat and Light levels and a differing cultural aesthetic so it wasn't too alien but it was close enough to give you a sense of uniqueness.

The "Moody Dark" we see on today's Ttek is just a really bad choice when it comes to art direction, in TOS they chose to wisper at some points in battle because it was to remind people of the Submarine Warfair films and TV they got for a while after WW2 and sell it as Ship to Ship Battle.

Today they chose Dark as they think it sets the tone, and it can but not in the way they do it the way they do make me think Starfleet has forgotten to change the bulb after the last ship station exploded.
They made a conscious choice to move away from the recognizable Starfleet look for the station while retaining a Trek feel, and it still comes off as kind of cozy and homey (once they clean up the mess of the occupation left over). It gives the feeling that they recognize the station should be on some level be built for humanoid aliens to live and work in, not just put together a stage front that looks dark and cool. Even the movie sets that try to keep the shiny Starfleet ship look instead feel too sterile and not enough like they're designed to be lived in. (Granted, Klingon ships were always pretty weird and like 'how do you live in this' but we rarely if ever saw what a space station looked like, where Klingons would be expected to live long term)
Actually, I trust Janeway to fight for my behalf. If I ended up imprisoned or otherwise at risk, Janeway is too much a maternal figure to not bring down the ceiling to get me back.

Janeway very much cares about the crew, she just doesn’t go out of her way to show it.

Sisko strikes me as only willing to do that if you’re part of the senior staff/his immediate friends and cronies. If your just a random starfleet officer on DS9 that gets wrongfully arrested by the bajorans, he isn’t going to go to bat for you. He might raise a complaint but he isn’t going to antagonize people he deems more important.

As for Kirk, he’s an action man who just accepts the losses as part of the job. I’d completely respect him, but I wouldn’t want to be a red shirt on the next planet he visits.
Janeway will protect you from enemies because nobody gets to kill you but her. You're not safe at all if it comes down to a risk she's taking, though. Nor can you trust her to act in your best interests. If it means stepping a toe out of Starfleet's regulations, it's a hard pass, even if it's to protect you.

I don't remember any time where Sisko failed his officers or the people in the station, though. He's basically a fierce papa bear to them all. Starfleet might dismiss an officer arrested by Bajorans because they want the wormhole, but Sisko seems like the captain most likely to fight back against that or give them the finger and do something himself. (Kirk might be the one most likely to give Starfleet the finger over someone he cares about, but he abandons and loses random nobodies on his crew like dropping crumbs on a table.) Picard is absolutely the one who will be of least use to you if you've been wrongfully arrested and Starfleet tells him not to intervene, though. He has the diplomatic chops to intervene, but he's most likely to give up if Starfleet says no.

I'm going to pick Spock as Captain by the way. Being a trainee under him on the Enterprise looks like it would have been a blast, other than the whole getting blown up by Khan thing which was Kirk's fault anyway. Also, once Kirk gets taken hostage by the Klingons, Spock pulls an entire rescue operation out of his ass and successfully infiltrates Klingon space with zero casualties. He's also less uptight in the movies than he was in the show.

Doctors is a hard one. I'm inclined to go with Bones since he's the most dedicated, and he's almost never taken out of action even when the ship is falling apart around him. The EMH would be my runner up. He's always on call, hyper competent, and because its Voyager he has more ridiculous technobabble solutions at his disposal.
Spock is a reasonably good leader. There's that whole episode where they're stranded on a planet without resources, a bunch of red shirts, and hostile enemies all around them. Despite the flagrant racist disrespect the redshirts showed, not only did he manage to get almost everyone out alive against all odds, but he came very close to sacrificing himself on the planet alone to ensure that his crew survived. The only problem is that he will absolutely cut his losses when it's time to cut losses. If you're a nobody and saving you would risk the rest of the crew, you're just dead.

The problem I have with Bones is that while he has the buff of being TOS crew and therefore has some of the most staggering feats, I believe he's also the doctor who most often fails to save his patients. People die on his watch all the time, and not just in a 'we have a full infirmary and people are dying off all around us' kind of situation. The EMH technically also has all of Bones' skills and teachings pre-programmed into him, so he's close to a strict improvement.
I like Jeri. It's a shame she and Seven have been so butchered beyond recognition in Picard. I constantly forget that I'm looking at Seven of Nine and not 'healthy looking middle-aged blonde action woman'. It's like the writers lost all of Seven's actual personality and thought it was wholly 'hot woman' so filled the blanks with 'haggard cynical action woman with a temper and a connection to the Borg'. Has she ever had an analytical moment in Picard s1 or 2? I can't think of one. Her style of 'stoic' is entirely the wrong type in Picard, as well. I don't even remember her being 'ruthlessly efficient' unless you count 'murdering a dude by stabbing him in the face' as that. The closest I can remember to her being recognizably Seven is the flashback where she kills Icheb, just because she's sad over Icheb. Even then, it doesn't make sense why she'd jump to murder instead of trying to get him help even if it was unlikely to succeed.

I know Seven might be the type to determine that there was no hope and so the best choice would be to put him out of his misery, but you can't combine that with her acting in an extremely emotional way, because then she's clearly not accessing her Borg side.

Also- it's a classic failure to separate yourself from your creation, and a sign of a poor or inexperienced writer, that Patrick would not only see himself as Picard (when they are very different people) but openly admit to it.
 
Captain Jellico is best captain.

  • Troi in proper Starfleet uniform
  • Riker BTFO
  • Four-shift rotation

View attachment 3235081
And built one kickass robot.

Ok, we got 3 solid choices now.
On the negative side: he tried to take control of the Stargate program.

Phlox would be just as likely to not cure you of an easily treatable illness and then moralize that he's actually doing a good thing.
"That means it's working!"
*big smile as he loads the hypospray for a third booster shot*
 
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I like Jeri. It's a shame she and Seven have been so butchered beyond recognition in Picard. I constantly forget that I'm looking at Seven of Nine and not 'healthy looking middle-aged blonde action woman'. It's like the writers lost all of Seven's actual personality and thought it was wholly 'hot woman' so filled the blanks with 'haggard cynical action woman with a temper and a connection to the Borg'. Has she ever had an analytical moment in Picard s1 or 2? I can't think of one. Her style of 'stoic' is entirely the wrong type in Picard, as well. I don't even remember her being 'ruthlessly efficient' unless you count 'murdering a dude by stabbing him in the face' as that. The closest I can remember to her being recognizably Seven is the flashback where she kills Icheb, just because she's sad over Icheb. Even then, it doesn't make sense why she'd jump to murder instead of trying to get him help even if it was unlikely to succeed.
While the Picard writers are guilty of making Seven barely resemble the character that she was in Voyager, I do think Voyager itself was guilty of not letting her evolve beyond her "Vulcan with the social mannerisms of Amy Farrah Fowler" personality until the very end of the show's run. Letting Jeri Ryan show her range a bit more was a good idea on paper, but the way they went about it was far too jarring.

Also- it's a classic failure to separate yourself from your creation, and a sign of a poor or inexperienced writer, that Patrick would not only see himself as Picard (when they are very different people) but openly admit to it.
He's been doing it even since the relatively early days of TNG's run - the first Risa episode for instance was partly the result of Ira Steven Behr trying to salvage something from a script that Roddenberry had rejected, and partly the result of Stewart wanting Picard to have more episodes where he got to take part in action sequences and hang around hot chicks.
 
While the Picard writers are guilty of making Seven barely resemble the character that she was in Voyager, I do think Voyager itself was guilty of not letting her evolve beyond her "Vulcan with the social mannerisms of Amy Farrah Fowler" personality until the very end of the show's run. Letting Jeri Ryan show her range a bit more was a good idea on paper, but the way they went about it was far too jarring.


He's been doing it even since the relatively early days of TNG's run - the first Risa episode for instance was partly the result of Ira Steven Behr trying to salvage something from a script that Roddenberry had rejected, and partly the result of Stewart wanting Picard to have more episodes where he got to take part in action sequences and hang around hot chicks.
I mean, she did expand somewhat, but they usually pulled her back in. I think Picard shows why that is. It's very hard to expand Seven into Annika and retain the feeling of 'Seven'. But that's especially so when she has no one to bounce off of. Trying to expand Seven into a more human and less borg-y person and have her interact exclusively with new people unaffiliated with the Voyager crew was terrible. Not killing Icheb and having him as her sidekick following her around everywhere would probably have helped keep her more Seven-ish, even.

I appreciate Patrick wanting his character to do cool things or for he himself to be able to do cool things - that's fairly normal for an actor who is in any way connected to their character or has any influence on the writer's room. Many a character choice has been made because the actor or actress wanted the character to go in a certain way, or they wanted to do some other thing because they were bored or whatnot. That's different from Patrick Stewart's current view, where Picard is him, so the character cannot have opinions he doesn't hold, and if he has certain experiences the character should have them too.
 
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