General Discussion for Virtual Youtubers / Vtubers / Chuubas - it's okay to be a simp for 2D, just don't thirstpost.

[You're an idiot]

Spoiler: blah blah blah

The underlined text shows why there is some value in criticism based on feelings, provided those feelings are shared by at least some other people.

The difficulty comes from the fact that a person's emotional response to a work of art is very complex. A person's entire life history and belief system will affect how they feel about something, with different people having very different reactions to the same work. In order to criticize something artistic in a rigorous and rational way, you can do different things. You may apply some explicit standard, in which case you have to defend the standard as being applicable, and even then people can simply reject it because hey, subjective. Or you can simply state how it makes you feel, and if other peoples' perspectives (informed by their own experiences and beliefs) are close enough to yours, then your articulation and justification of their gut emotional responses will give them some satisfaction. Of course this would only apply to people whose perspectives are similar to your own, and since it's not explicitly moored to anything objective, you have the danger of conformism and groupthink.

The only other alternative I can think of is to fully and rigorously construct a unified philosophical framework, universally applicable to all people, with reference to which all artistic decisions can, in principle, be judged. This is the approach taken by Ayn Rand in The Romantic Manifesto. Once again people can simply reject your philosophy, but while a particular standard can be summarily rejected as "arbitrary", a philosophical system that has some basis in the premises people already accept cannot be rejected as easily. However, this method is not really feasible for most people.

Spoiler: criticism stuf

Ahhh stop! I can't agree anymore than I already do!

The only thing I think I even have a different perspective on is that I don't count what's described in the very first sentence as 'criticism' even between likeminded folks, but that starts to get into semantics more than the actual point. In regards to the universal system, I personally don't care if there was to be an all encompassing objective standard to hold up against every work of art, but what I do want to see is a person who sells themselves as an actual critic hold themselves to whatever standard they deem is important and fairly judge things based on it. I just can't see how saying, "I'm going to judge/critique this music," and then coming out with, "this is cringe and tryhard," with no reasoning given makes any sense at all. I wouldn't have ever even posted any response had it not been under that initial thin veneer.

 

[RainwaterDrop]

It's not part of her official lore, but she made it happen anyways out of sheer creative boredom. She went on this video series rampage, creating more and more impressively fucked up imagery of battling her 'sister' persona for control over 'their' body. YouTube didn't appreciate her final decapitation video, and she got in trouble for that.

It's important to remember that Amelia Watson pulled the time travel thing out of her ass on the spot during her debut. Now it's part of her lore, but it wasn't initially supposed to be.

And it worked like a charm. Without that aspect, Amelia is just a normal detective dealing with otherwordly beings like the Reaper's Apprentice, an Immortal Phoenix Warrior, a Lovecraftian Horror Girl and an Atlantean Shark, all of which could dispatch her without issue if she annoyed them mildly. It's out of place for her to be the only normal human in that mix, which is why she pulled off the best creative twist she could with all the imagery around her character!

Same as Mumei, when she started she was just the forgetful owl girl, Guardian of Civilization. It gets old quick if you don't innovate, so she developed her character into the berry eating cute twisted freak she is. Kobo Kanaeru did a Haachama thing too, because simply being a Rain Shaman is too self-contained. All in all, as long as it works out for whoever is playing the character, it's good!

Lore is only as useful as how well the talent can play into it. The lore the talent and community lean in to is 100x more interesting than any corpo shit. I wish corpo was more interested in incorporating what the girls come up with rather than continue their own lore. The fact that Haachama's lore she came up with is usually ignored officially is a crime considering how much more interesting it is than "kohai gyaru".

Yeah, if they aren't into it, it's just a boring side element mostly ignored outside the realm of fanarts. I think the Haachama thing might be more out of their focus on original costumes, they had her original model comissioned for Live3D, her original costume on the Expo, and they do that for everyone, they aren't shutting her down merely by doing that. It would be a problem if they only did it for her, but it's a generalized thing, maybe a power dynamic considering the amount of leeway the talents get in playing themselves. I agree that they need to be more in touch with the talents themselves and that they pick fucking retarded fights, like being anal about Amelia's spicier jokes for example. She goes further than normal, but she never goes full VShojo, you can let her run wild most of the time and it won't be a problem for most viewers, but they might have the petulant assholes in advertisement in mind. Which fucking sucks!

A good example, again, is Kobo Kanaeru. A fucking Rain Shaman might be a traditional Indonesian thing, but outside of rural areas fucking nobody cares about rain that much. She stopped caring about the kayfabe and the fans loved it, from what I have gathered, and guess what, it means it works out. Some advertiser might bitch about it, but it's the fucking fans that bring the cash in with merchandise and other partnerships!

 

[Rratcatcher]

The fuck are you talking about?

I changed it before I saw this, but I meant Cover shutting down her Haachama/Haato lore videos.

@RainwaterDrop Yeah, moreso than her costume, I mean small things elsewhere. The website uses her old greeting and has no mention of the name Haachama, even though she has gone by that name for almost 2 years now.

 

[2DUM4U]

Fiddlebear soon. (Uruka's a wonderful musician, for the 0.001% of you who didn't already know that).

 

[NuPerezzorcjunmunospolkos]

I changed it before I saw this, but I meant Cover shutting down her Haachama/Haato lore videos.

@RainwaterDrop Yeah, moreso than her costume, I mean small things elsewhere. The website uses her old greeting and has no mention of the name Haachama, even though she has gone by that name for almost 2 years now.

They didn't shut it down. What happened is youtube made a policy change regarding depictions of self harm, so they took all her February 2021 lore stuff down then restored most of it after review. Haachama is the one who ended up moving away from it. She continued to do occasional lore streams and videos, but got bored with it and moved on. At the same time she started going to college, so she doesn't have time for the special edited stuff anymore. Those special 4-5 minute clips took up so much time that she was actively editing them during the associated lore streams.

 

[masterstocking]

And it worked like a charm. Without that aspect, Amelia is just a normal detective dealing with otherwordly beings like the Reaper's Apprentice, an Immortal Phoenix Warrior, a Lovecraftian Horror Girl and an Atlantean Shark, all of which could dispatch her without issue if she annoyed them mildly. It's out of place for her to be the only normal human in that mix, which is why she pulled off the best creative twist she could with all the imagery around her character!

Same as Mumei, when she started she was just the forgetful owl girl, Guardian of Civilization. It gets old quick if you don't innovate, so she developed her character into the berry eating cute twisted freak she is. Kobo Kanaeru did a Haachama thing too, because simply being a Rain Shaman is too self-contained. All in all, as long as it works out for whoever is playing the character, it's good!



Yeah, if they aren't into it, it's just a boring side element mostly ignored outside the realm of fanarts. I think the Haachama thing might be more out of their focus on original costumes, they had her original model comissioned for Live3D, her original costume on the Expo, and they do that for everyone, they aren't shutting her down merely by doing that. It would be a problem if they only did it for her, but it's a generalized thing, maybe a power dynamic considering the amount of leeway the talents get in playing themselves. I agree that they need to be more in touch with the talents themselves and that they pick fucking retarded fights, like being anal about Amelia's spicier jokes for example. She goes further than normal, but she never goes full VShojo, you can let her run wild most of the time and it won't be a problem for most viewers, but they might have the petulant assholes in advertisement in mind. Which fucking sucks!

A good example, again, is Kobo Kanaeru. A fucking Rain Shaman might be a traditional Indonesian thing, but outside of rural areas fucking nobody cares about rain that much. She stopped caring about the kayfabe and the fans loved it, from what I have gathered, and guess what, it means it works out. Some advertiser might bitch about it, but it's the fucking fans that bring the cash in with merchandise and other partnerships!

Boredom is a great motivator, especially for fidgety creative types like Ame and Haachama.

"Trazyn liked great works. Indeed, he had been awake far longer than even the handful of his early-risen kin – and had learned quickly that lofty pursuits were an essential component to immortality. A necron overlord’s greatest enemy was not the savage orks, the grasping humans or the cunning aeldari. Boredom was the greatest foe, one that must be continually battled lest madness or despondency set in."

Robert Rath, The Infinite and The Divine




Here's a handy graph for absolutely no reason

 

[SmugPeko]

I changed it before I saw this, but I meant Cover shutting down her Haachama/Haato lore videos.

@RainwaterDrop Yeah, moreso than her costume, I mean small things elsewhere. The website uses her old greeting and has no mention of the name Haachama, even though she has gone by that name for almost 2 years now.

Its because of youtube guidelines no? For the most part they let her do whatever she wants with her content.

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

Thought experiment: Let's redact lore from existing characters and see what happens.

Gawr Gura is a girl in a shark hoodie. She looks kind of young, she sounds high-pitched, I guess she is really young. Even though she has a bunch of different outfits, the tail seems to remain. I guess it's a part of her? Funny design choice.

Mori Calliope is a woman with a scythe. Her clothing is also really dark and gloomy. Her other outfits are also kind of dark-coloured, with a general cool/edgy theme. She raps quite a lot, it's unusual for a VTuber I guess. Her lyrics are mostly about herself and about creating music.

In other words: Boring.

Lore goes beyond what we'd consider a gimmick. It can skew our entire perception of a streamer, provide basis for multiple pieces of content, influences fanworks heavily, etc etc. It's comparable to the VTuber model itself, in terms of how we see them. Sure, the person is ultimately what's important, but you can't deny that the kayfabe influences everything.

 

[2DUM4U]

Here's a handy graph for absolutely no reason

You have to take care when handling the more unstable elements. Too much of the psychological weak force and a lack of strong force can lead to an exponential loss of positivity, in what is known as "menhara radiation". This is, e.g., how Rushium decays into Mikonekum.

 

[I am not here]

I interrupt your discussion to bring you a Aqua clip. Good to see the introvert is still a goofball

 

[Coptakhenaten]

I assume they make sure a talent is as compatible with the lore as possible. If a character isn't very compatible with the actress, it would lead to issues down the line. If a person is very talented but really can't work with any of the characters' designs or lore, they probably don't choose them. Biggest example in EN for me is Fauna. She is perfect for the role, being vegan and soft-spoken and everything. There might have been other applicants who were just as talented as her but didn't fulfill a role as well as she did.

 

[Azchan]

Liora is doing a Rerun of her Karaoke from yesterday. I tried to save it but i couldn't cuz shit bugged.

Alphaomega fucking sucks and I still to this day don't know what they were even going for with it. They'll probably come back in for StarsEN / EN3 like it was all part of the plan but I honestly think they wanted to do more lore stuff and dropped it because everyone thinks Council lore is gay.

This was a whole lot of nothing although it is possible that they are working behind the scenes but unlike A-chan they just dont like being on camera. I guess its good for them to have something set up in case they need it in the future.

Whenever Connor makes a one-off sexual joke now and again, his female Vtuber "friends" always comment on his sexual performance,
Imagine if Connor commented on their sexual performance every time they made a sexual joke,
he would be #Metoo into the ground and called a weirdo.
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I partially disagree. No one except the most autistic fans of those vtubers would get angry and I feel like at any sort of outrage the talents themselves would wrangle their stupid audience.

Pippa should make another video about Ethan. I want to see his reaction.

Management won't allow it especially if it could compromise their talent's channel. I believe Pippa also mentioned that management told her to avoid making streams about specific individuals as they can also claim harassment/bullying to give her channel a strike.

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Absolute no one is confessing love to someone who hasn't really streamed or done much of anything, but the twitter interactions basically gave them some follows/potential donations and a new hugbox. Best practice is just sit back and let things play out. So I would hope this was a copypasta that people do, but with the EN Vtubing sphere, you never know, so as said I definitely get the "how do you know if this is true" vibe. It also wouldn't benefit the western viewers who rarely watch/support CN/KR Vtubers to begin with, so as a publicity stunt, it wouldn't have much impact, especially with new chinese rules on limiting how much money you can shell out to content creators.

Who the fuck is even this? This is fake as fuck.

BASED Brad is suffering through Mori Calliope discography atm

sadly he seems to be in a bit of menhera mode
Edit: he's crying

So why do we care about this faggot?

Fish be fishin'. I have no idea what Sakana sounds like, it'll be interesting to see what he has to say.
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EDIT: More details.
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Sent about 10 questions yesterday. Some of them meme-ish others quite legit. If you want to listen to sakana just watch him at night playing

On another note, did anyone see that Brad and his fans were legitimately offended by, of all songs, this:

https://genius.com/Demondice-sick-outta-fashion-lyrics

Who is this faggot? Why is he relevant? Why are we giving him views?

 

[sashimi]

Why are we giving him views?

I'm not, and hopefully no one else here is.

 

[EliteDoragon]

They didn't shut it down. What happened is youtube made a policy change regarding depictions of self harm, so they took all her February 2021 lore stuff down then restored most of it after review. Haachama is the one who ended up moving away from it. She continued to do occasional lore streams and videos, but got bored with it and moved on. At the same time she started going to college, so she doesn't have time for the special edited stuff anymore. Those special 4-5 minute clips took up so much time that she was actively editing them during the associated lore streams.

Gotta keep in mind that a lot of the artwork and stuff she used was not self made or even requested. Her entire schizo lore arc was an iterative feedback loop between Haachama and the haatons.

She started doing "cursed" things, which inspired the schizo art work, which she enjoyed and she started incorporating it into her streams, which inspired even more schizo art work. She didn't really start "crazy", she was just eating tarantulas and doing filthy frank cooking videos.

Even the "end" of her heavy lore stuff was sort of something haatons were pushing for. They really wanted "coexist" so now Haachama embraces that and has two(4 if you count Red-kun and lolichaama) personas to entertain stream with depending on what she wants to do.

 

[masterstocking]

Its because of youtube guidelines no? For the most part they let her do whatever she wants with her content.

Akai Haato got demonetized due to her way-too-sexy-for-TV ASMR streams. If I recall correctly, she went for an entire year without monetization on her channel because of that. The discontinuation of her ultra-violent 'kill her sister and take over' storyline was to prevent her from losing the channel (Cover wimped out because of Susan's new anti-self-harm guidelines, in other words). But she was already on YouTube's radar at that point.



I guess we could just...blame her manager?

Who is this faggot? Why is he relevant? Why are we giving him views?

I ignored him after just looking at his channel. He looks like a typical meth head

 

[ChefKiss]

Music critics are the same level of subhuman bottom feeders as game journalists. Nobody should give a fuck about their opinions on anything

Chuuni lore dumps at debut are terrible, especially if it's something written by the company and not the talent themselves. The best lore is really just working in roommate stuff so they can feel more natural and at ease anyway
Is lore important? Is singing important? is being good at games important? It all depends on the streamers skills and what they want to lean into, We can all name at least a few who arent great at singing but are very talented in other things
I couldn't even tell you what Nene's lore is supposed to be at this point, she's just Nene

 

[2DUM4U]

Chuuni lore dumps at debut are terrible, especially if it's something written by the company and not the talent themselves.

I thought it was funny when HoloX premiered all of a sudden with almost zero lore buildup. I remember thinking they must have learned from Council.

 

[Rezza]

Clip tax

 

[BibiLivesMatter]

View attachment 3313172
im so sorry

 

[masterstocking]

View attachment 3313172
im so sorry

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Only one thing left to do now...