War Don’t believe those who say ending Roe v Wade will leave society largely intact - The Guardian reeeeally needs a Xanax prescription (and so does Android Raptor)

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Now that the dust has begun to settle after the inital explosive news that the US supreme court is poised to overrule the right to abortion and that Justice Samuel Alito’s draft opinion in Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization represents what a majority of the court initially voted to do, among the most revealing ways to understand the devastation the court appears ready to wreak on America’s long march toward “liberty and justice for all” is to examine the kinds of arguments being made in the opinion’s defense.

The argument that such a ruling would simply return a divisive issue to the people had long since been widely dismantled. It certainly wouldn’t be returned to the people most profoundly affected once women were told they may have to remain pregnant despite whatever urgent reasons they might have for seeking a safe and legal abortion. It couldn’t be described as returning the abortion issue to the states, now that the possibility of a nationwide ban that the supreme court might uphold is on the horizon. And to the extent the issue is returned to the states, it would be returned to state legislatures so gerrymandered that they often represent the views of a distinct minority of the people anyway.

The argument that “only” abortion is involved because Alito’s draft assures readers that the supreme court’s opinion won’t be treated as precedent for anything that doesn’t involve killing an unborn human is both profoundly insulting and manifestly misleading. It insults every sentient person by minimizing the significance of commandeering the bodies and lives of half the population – and re-inserting government power into every family. And it misleads every reader of Alito’s words by suggesting that a court has the power to shape how future lawmakers and judges will build on its decisions and the reasoning underlying them. Alito’s hollow promise brings to mind similar assurances in notorious cases like Bush v Gore, is inconsistent with how the judicial process works, and wouldn’t offer any solace to anyone who might become pregnant or whose miscarriage might be treated as a crime scene for police to investigate.

The foolishness of the argument that there’s nothing to see here other than the future of abortion law is underscored by some of what is said in its support. We’re told not to worry about the future of decisions like Loving v Virginia, ensuring the right to marry someone of a different race than your own because, after all, Justice Clarence Thomas is in an interracial marriage. We’re told not to worry about the right to same-sex marriage because, after all, Justice Brett Kavanaugh would never vote to overturn Obergefell v Hodges, the most iconic opinion written by his proud mentor, Anthony Kennedy – the man who left the court only after he had hand-picked Kavanaugh as his successor. We’re told not to worry about contraception (despite the way quite a few people view Plan B or IUDs as forms of abortion) because even supreme court nominees like Amy Coney Barrett, who were cagey about just how “settled” a precedent they deemed Roe v Wade, said they couldn’t imagine anybody today challenging Griswold v Connecticut. All that prognostication is cold comfort to the millions of people whose lives are profoundly affected by these shaky predictions.

The most substantial argument is one that is equally fallacious but more sophisticated and in some ways more devious and dangerous: it is the argument that supreme court reversals of precedent, like the reversal of Plessy v Ferguson by Brown v Board of Education, are often to be welcomed as needed course corrections, and that this “course correction” wouldn’t be the first time the supreme court has rolled back decades-old constitutional rights. The many commentators who persisted in describing Alito’s draft in those terms – as an unprecedented retreat in the arc of ever-expanding rights – have recently been denounced as either inexcusably ignorant or deliberately duplicitous by distinguished scholars like Yale’s Akhil Amar, who says that every first-year law student learns that the very same thing happened during FDR’s second term as president, when the supreme court in 1937 in West Coast Hotel v Parrish overturned a long line of decisions that had blocked minimum wage and maximum hours and other worker-protection laws in the name of employers’ rights of “private property” and the “liberty of contract”. To be sure, Amar’s argument echoes that of the Alito draft, which cites Parrish and says, in effect, “nothing to see here, we did the same thing before” when we rolled back the liberty of contract line of decisions in 1937.

Justice Alito and Professor Amar are simply wrong: profoundly so. That so-called (and quite misleadingly labeled) “switch in time that saved the nine” was nothing like the switch that Dobbs would represent. The 1937 “switch” was no sudden politically driven turnabout but was in fact the culmination of long-simmering movements in legal and economic thought – movements that were reflected both in scholarship and in judicial opinions from the earliest days of the 20th century in places like Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’ dissent in Lochner v New York insisting that “the 14th amendment does not enact Mr Herbert Spencer’s social statics,” movements that represented the growing conviction that the “freedom” to work at low wages and in miserable conditions was an illusion lacking both moral and legal foundations and one that simply helped perpetuate economic inequality and the exploitation of relatively powerless, not-yet-unionized workers by wealthy and powerful corporations.

Indeed, it is noteworthy that West Coast Hotel v Parrishthe 29 March 1937 decision that is usually marked as the pivot point in the great constitutional upheaval – was handed down by precisely the same set of nine justices as the nine who had rendered a decision pointing in the opposite direction less than a year earlier, on 1 June 1936, in Morehead v New York ex rel Tipaldo. One justice of the nine, a moderate Republican named Owen J Roberts, who had been rethinking his position on the underlying legal theories, had foreshadowed his shifting views by writing a landmark opinion upholding milk price regulation, Nebbia v New York, by a 5-4 vote in 1934 – less than two months after the court had upheld a state mortgage moratorium law by a 5-4 vote in Home Building & Loan Ass’n v Blaisdell, a decision clearly foreshadowing the 1937 repudiation of Lochner’s legacy by reconceiving the meaning of the constitution’s clause forbidding all state impairments of the obligation of contracts.

That history is important to keep in mind if one is to understand the depth of the error made by those who seek to compare the 2022 tsunami that Dobbs would represent with the gradual shift in current represented by the 1937 movement away from liberty of contract to protection of workers and consumers. The head-spinning and altogether untimely switch in the supreme court’s abortion jurisprudence that Dobbs would represent – if the decision the court announces late this June or early July is in substance what the leaked Alito draft indicated it would be – will reflect not the steady maturation of a long-developing jurisprudential movement but the crude payoff to a partisan political program to take over the federal judiciary, one beginning with Ronald Reagan’s presidency and the rise of the Federalist Society, and advancing with supreme court appointments made by Republican presidents all of whom lost the popular vote (George W Bush, appointing Justice Alito and Chief Justice John Roberts; Donald J Trump, appointing Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett), and made in circumstances of dubious legitimacy.

Professor Amar treats as laughably naïve the observation by ACLU national legal director and Georgetown law professor David Cole that, although “Parrish took away some rights of business owners … its real effect was to expand rights protections for millions of Americans subject to exploitation by powerful corporations.” Amar’s rebuttal? He says, and I’m serious here, that it’d be equally legitimate to say that “Dobbs’ real effect would be to expand rights protection for millions of innocent, unborn Americans … unborn humans, subject to extermination by society.”
It’s hard to know where to begin in unraveling that alleged parallel. Suffice it to note that the status as rights-bearing persons of embryos and fetuses remains a matter of profound sectarian controversy in America and throughout the world while no such controversy attends the status as rights-bearing persons of the array of workers whose rights, at least under laws designed to limit economic exploitation if not directly under the constitution itself, were indisputably expanded by virtue of the Parrish decision and the overturning of the Lochner line of cases.

Perhaps no less important is the indisputable fact that, although there remain a few commentators who continue to think that Lochner was rightly decided and Parrish was wrong, there is a nearly universal consensus, certainly covering the ideological spectrum on the current supreme court, that the “rights” protected by Lochner and the other decisions that Parrish tossed into the dustbin of history were not constitutionally sacrosanct, and that inequalities of bargaining power prevented the common-law baseline that Lochner treated as immune to legislative modification from having any special constitutional status. At the same time, the notions of personal autonomy and bodily integrity that provide the constitutional foundation for the substantive “liberty” at stake in cases like Roe and Casey are almost universally accepted as real, although deep disagreements remain about whether, to what degree, and from what point in fetal development the protection of the unborn fetus can properly trump that liberty.

The upshot is that the radical change in law and society that Dobbs would represent truly has no parallel in the history of the supreme court or in the history of the United States. As David Cole writes, the “proper analogy is not Brown overruling Plessy, but a decision reviving Plessy, reversing Brown, and relegating Black people to enforced segregation after nearly 70 years of equal protection.” For, as Jamelle Bouie rightly observed, “equal standing is undermined and eroded when the state can effectively seize your person for its own ends – that is, when it can force you to give birth.” Whether or not one compares that compulsion and forced labor to literal enslavement, as I did in my 1973 article on Roe v Wade, attempts to minimize the huge retrogression this would represent must be dismissed as little more than shameful efforts to camouflage the carnage the supreme court of the United States is about to unleash both on its own legitimacy and, even more important, on the people in whose name it wields the power of judicial review.
  • Laurence H Tribe is the Carl M Loeb University Professor of Constitutional Law Emeritus at Harvard University, the author of numerous books and articles, a distinguished supreme court advocate, and holder of 11 honorary degrees

Literally half this article has nothing to do with Dobbs or Roe.

"If the law's on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If neither are on your side, throw an autistic shitfit".
 
Fetuses get no rights because fetuses aren't people. If you think they are, go harass an IVF clinic since they kill way more than abortions do.
Your self-loathing and attempts to feel empowered by dehumanizing anyone or anything powerless are duly noted, thank you.
 
Your self-loathing and attempts to feel empowered by dehumanizing anyone or anything powerless are duly noted, thank you.
OK but why is it that prolifers aren't going after IVF clinics first and foremost and treat them as an afterthought at best? If you think embryos are people IVF clinics should be public enemy no. 1 since they kill thousands daily.
 
OK but why is it that prolifers aren't going after IVF clinics first and foremost and treat them as an afterthought at best? If you think embryos are people IVF clinics should be public enemy no. 1 since they kill thousands daily.
IVF clinics are also bad yes. Is that your argument? Yes, they're bad. But here's the rub, most normal people find the concept of a kike sticking a hoover up their gooch to be disgusting, disquieting and unpleasant. The reason Roe Vs Wade is going to be repealed, and why no one outside of twitter cares that it will, is because abortions are not nice. No one likes them. IVF clinics don't involve human women typically, and when they do any dead babies are due to miscarriage rather than deliberate action.

Going 'muh IVF!' doesn't make abortion any less reprehensible, it just means that IVF clinics are also bad. Also to side tangent: IVF is fucking alchemy, it's a very hit and miss practice and it infuriates me that it's being sold to women as the 'have it both ways!' solution when it barely works, typically selects for substandard eggs and sperm, and often times damages the mother. IVF is bad for a variety of reasons.
 
That's nice but it's not going to make public transit any less non-existent in most of the South. Come down here and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
How are these whores getting knocked up without a car or public transportation and without bc? Do they just stand on the road and fuck the first thing with a dong they see?
And I'm an autist with limited ability to work thanks to sensory issues who can't afford a car, since cars are a expensive af. Even when I had one I couldn't really afford it, I had a job then but was probably putting just about all my paycheck into gas and other car expenses.

Maybe the south should stop making excuses for not having public transit or treating women as people.
Maybe put that autism to work and learn how they work so you can fix a beater to get you to a job and then you can work to get a better car. Maybe you should stop acting like women are helpless things that can't do shit.
 
More dead babies too probably, both from the old fashioned wet-cloth-to-the-face-of-a-newborn method of dealing with unwanted pregnancies, and from shit like shaken baby syndrome and other ways people who should have never had kids tend to kill them (or get them taken away by CPS at least).
Either your not from the US or you are just incompetent. Regardless, I hope you do not fuck and are faced with a pregnancy.

Now, let me be clear. I am very slightly pro-abortion in the first trimester. But the idea of infanticide as a solution to an unwanted pregnancy is morbid.

First, newborns are extremely in demand by couples that want to adopt. If a pregnant woman were to seek help from organizations they would be able to find parents that would pay for a ton of the costs associated with child birth.

Second and most importantly, in the United States we have a safe haven law in all 50 states. We even have heated / temperature controlled boxes in certain regions of the country. With these alternatives in place, infanticide should never be a consideration and those who commit it should face the most severe criminal penalties.



5f6cd982325fd.jpg
 
How are these whores getting knocked up without a car or public transportation and without bc? Do they just stand on the road and fuck the first thing with a dong they see?
This might come as a shock, but you don't need a car to bang someone that lives within walking distance in the same trailer park, or get molested by your dad, or any number of ways women and girls get pregnant

What I'm wondering is how prolifers in Thunderdome are so sure every women who gets an abortion is a yucky slut having unprotected sex with every dude (except them), when they have little to no contact or interaction with women?
 
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And I'm an autist with limited ability to work thanks to sensory issues who can't afford a car, since cars are a expensive af. Even when I had one I couldn't really afford it, I had a job then but was probably putting just about all my paycheck into gas and other car expenses.

Maybe the south should stop making excuses for not having public transit or treating women as people.
Limited ability? LIMITED ABILITY? Be grateful you’re even breathing from your mouth. You know what a some fresh out of college guy said to my mother. “Terminate immediately, lung problems”. Even in the womb I felt that smugness off that doctor when my mom refused. I was on the incubator, bad lung capacity, I was always on the chance that I wouldn’t make it. You’d probably post in tard babies saying how much of an idiot mother I had if I died. But guess what, I survived, I live, and now I thrive. I met that doctor again a few years later you know, I really enjoyed when I took a deep, long, fresh breath of air and punched his face into a wall. So what excuse do you have because of “motor abilities”. So here’s a deal, fuck off about your autism when you thrive only when you make fun of tard babies who had a chance to live and then cry a sorrow song when women don’t get abortions. Damn I’m fucking MATI today.
 
I personally think *very* late term post birth abortions of males should be mandatory.

If men can bury baby girls alive and murder mothers for giving birth to baby girls then I see no reason why men shouldn't be culled given that you are the definition of parasites and a plague on this world.
 
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I personally think *very* late term post birth abortions of males should be mandatory.

If men can bury baby girls alive and murder mothers for giving birth to baby girls then I see no reason why men shouldn't be culled given that you are the definition of parasites and a plague on this world.
yes dear that's nice

is dinner ready yet
 
I personally think *very* late term post birth abortions of males should be mandatory.

If men can bury baby girls alive and murder mothers for giving birth to baby girls then I see no reason why men shouldn't be culled given that you are the definition of parasites and a plague on this world.
Damn, a gimmick account from 2019. Wild.
 
IVF clinics are also bad yes. Is that your argument? Yes, they're bad. But here's the rub, most normal people find the concept of a kike sticking a hoover up their gooch to be disgusting, disquieting and unpleasant. The reason Roe Vs Wade is going to be repealed, and why no one outside of twitter cares that it will, is because abortions are not nice. No one likes them. IVF clinics don't involve human women typically, and when they do any dead babies are due to miscarriage rather than deliberate action.
Homie you do know what IVF clinics ultimately do with unused embryos, right? Also abortions are unpleasant but significantly less so than giving birth.
 
I personally think *very* late term post birth abortions of males should be mandatory.

If men can bury baby girls alive and murder mothers for giving birth to baby girls then I see no reason why men shouldn't be culled given that you are the definition of parasites and a plague on this world.
Yes, yes, that's nice.

Pn0zZho.jpg

Also abortions are unpleasant but significantly less so than giving birth.
Which is why the human race went extinct, because women are physically incapable of giving birth, and so the human race never existed.
 
This might come as a shock, but you don't need a car to bang someone that lives within walking distance in the same trailer park, or get molested by your dad, or any number of ways women and girls get pregnant
As far as trailer park whores go, same advice as before: either use bc, use hand/mouth/ass or keep the legs closed, and there are exceptions for rape/health of the mother written into even the most restrictive laws. There is no excuse for unwanted pregnancy in the 21st century unless your are vegetable levels of retarded, in which case you should be institutionalized.
 
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I personally think *very* late term post birth abortions of males should be mandatory.

If men can bury baby girls alive and murder mothers for giving birth to baby girls then I see no reason why men shouldn't be culled given that you are the definition of parasites and a plague on this world.
I too agree that the shit that happens in China, India, and parts of Africa is reprehensible and should be met with harsh and swift punishment.
 
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@Android raptor
View attachment 3314651
Dawg you keep putting out these excuses that just make you sound lazy and irresponsible, then when someone offers solutions for your hypotheticals you just keep passing the buck to whatever inconvenience you can blame it on. Relative of mine used to walk miles while pregnant to pay the gas bill, if you can't do that to save your life from a potentially life threatening situation then that's on you
People are gonna fuck, no matter how much it upsets you puritanical boomers. You trying to control women's bodies isn't gonna change it.

Roe v Wade being overturned means the government is going to be able to control your body. Congrats, you puritanical boomers have just made it so the government can force you to get the jab you are so terrified of
 
People are gonna fuck, no matter how much it upsets you puritanical boomers. You trying to control women's bodies isn't gonna change it.

Roe v Wade being overturned means the government is going to be able to control your body. Congrats, you puritanical boomers have just made it so the government can force you to get the jab you are so terrified of
OK, Groomer.
 
OK, Groomer.
Lol, right, anyone who isn't a religious fundie Republican boomer is a pedo. Poor little QTard is upset that I am pro-choice. Maybe you should go back to /pol/ to wait for the next Q drop

It'll be a society with a whole lot more dead women and girls and an equal (or higher) number of dead fetuses.

More dead babies too probably, both from the old fashioned wet-cloth-to-the-face-of-a-newborn method of dealing with unwanted pregnancies, and from shit like shaken baby syndrome and other ways people who should have never had kids tend to kill them (or get them taken away by CPS at least).
It's basically like this:
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Homie you do know what IVF clinics ultimately do with unused embryos, right?
Yes. Can you read?
But here's the rub, most normal people find the concept of a kike sticking a hoover up their gooch to be disgusting, disquieting and unpleasant.... IVF clinics don't involve human women typically, and when they do any dead babies are due to miscarriage rather than deliberate action.
Humans are not rational. The clinical nature of the IVF selection process and breakage means that it's inherently less objectionable to most people on the face of it. I would also close those clinics down as well. In fact to head off some other retarded arguments
Fathers would have to care for their kids! Yes. Good, they fucking should!
Bad mothers! Imprison the mother, kid goes to adoption
Childhood sexual abuse! Shoot the abuser. Kid goes to adoption!
I will personally kill my child if I ever had one! You're an insane dyke that gets off on killing children. Shoot the abuser, kid goes up for adoption/burial.

Also abortions are unpleasant but significantly less so than giving birth.
Yes yes, you're terrified of your own body, yes yes, you were raped/molested/catcalled/looked at. Change the fucking record love. Normal women give birth every day, and have done since we split from Chimps. They all go through it. They're going to keep going through it. It's a perfectly normal part of being a woman. The only people that are horrified by it are broken women that should be in a convent, an institution, or the ground.
 
Yes. Can you read?

Humans are not rational. The clinical nature of the IVF selection process and breakage means that it's inherently less objectionable to most people on the face of it. I would also close those clinics down as well. In fact to head off some other retarded arguments
Fathers would have to care for their kids! Yes. Good, they fucking should!
Bad mothers! Imprison the mother, kid goes to adoption
Childhood sexual abuse! Shoot the abuser. Kid goes to adoption!
I will personally kill my child if I ever had one! You're an insane dyke that gets off on killing children. Shoot the abuser, kid goes up for adoption/burial.


Yes yes, you're terrified of your own body, yes yes, you were raped/molested/catcalled/looked at. Change the fucking record love. Normal women give birth every day, and have done since we split from Chimps. They all go through it. They're going to keep going through it. It's a perfectly normal part of being a woman. The only people that are horrified by it are broken women that should be in a convent, an institution, or the ground.
Birth control can fail. Some women and men can't afford to raise a child. If you somehow had sex (I know, not happening since you're an autist with the mindset of a puritanical boomer), you'd be in deep shit since you are a NEET that lives in your parent's basement.

There's also women that are high risk for death if they give birth. But those women's lives don't matter to you religious zealots

Since you love life and hate bodily autonomy so much, do you also think the government should be able to force people to get vaccinated? If not, congrats, you're a hypocrite. Then again, you're a Republican boomer so you being a hypocrite is a given
 
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