GPUs & CPUs & Enthusiast hardware: Questions, Discussion and fanboy slap-fights - Nvidia & AMD & Intel - Separe but Equal. Intel rides in the back of the bus.

[CreamyHerman’s]

The 5600g is cheaper than other 5600 variants. Does it have noticeably worse performance?

It doesn't have as many PCIe lanes for the motherboard as they're being used by the onboard graphics. Which may hamper performance down the road

 

[DNA_JACKED]

It doesn't have as many PCIe lanes for the motherboard as they're being used by the onboard graphics. Which may hamper performance down the road

And they are 3.0 only, not 4.0 like the 5600/x chips. You're getting fucked in both holes. The STD on top is the half sized L3 cache which further hinders the CPU on cache sensitive games.

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

And they are 3.0 only, not 4.0 like the 5600/x chips. You're getting fucked in both holes. The STD on top is the half sized L3 cache which further hinders the CPU on cache sensitive games.

Not necessarily, most modern high end GPUs still have PCIe 3.0 support. It's the lower end shit that is getting shitted on due to it being exclusively 4.0

 

[DNA_JACKED]

Not necessarily, most modern high end GPUs still have PCIe 3.0 support. It's the lower end shit that is getting shitted on due to it being exclusively 4.0

I wonder why low end stuff getting double fucked by 3.0 might matter to someone buying a cheap APU? Hmmmm.....

All GPUs support all PCIe revisions up to their current gen of connector. Even 8GB cards are going to start feeling the strain of 3.0 sooner rather then later, given how much VRAM requirements are going up this generation. Given the cost difference, the lack of lanes, and the crippled cache on top of all that there is no reason to buy a 5000 series APU over a 5600.

Given AM4 is EoL buying an APU now just means you're wasting money when you inevitably grab a nicer 5000 series later to upgrade, that money would be better spent on a 5600 in the first place.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

for all of you poorfags out there. i don't know why anyone would need 8 cores on a celeron or pentium considering it's gonna be bottlenecked by the eMMC storage cheap laptops usually ship with anyway.View attachment 3384824

Once stuff loads into RAM, eMMC is no longer a bottleneck. Don't get one of these with 4 GB of RAM though.

I was a little disappointed that they didn't put a Golden Cove core in Alder Lake-N, after all, wasn't the whole point of Lakefield to improve single-threaded performance in this segment? But it still sounds interesting. With the graphics improvement and increase to 8 threads, it could be better for gaming than you think, or emulation at least. I also want to see AV1 decode standard everywhere and it's not in the previous-gen Jasper Lake.

What I think you'll find is that a lot of the cheap shit with Alder Lake-N you'd actually want to buy will be cut down to 4 cores, 16-24 EUs, or something like that. Maybe they'll do a 6-core? But none of the other Alder Lake CPUs have disabled cores on the quad-core E-core clusters. So 4 and 8 cores might be the only options.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

This, these chips literally don't care. They can sit idle at these temperatures and they'd still last you a lot longer than you're ever going to use them. People are way too crazy about trying to get their electronics down to body temperatures. As long as they don't literally overheat to the point that they shut themselves off it doesn't really hurt them in a meaningful manner in regards to the average time you're going to use them before retiring them.

I absolutely agree. Having a tower cooler or a liquid one with big fans keeps the temperature low but it also reduces the amount of sound coming out of your computer. To me, as a non-crazy person, that is the primary benefit. Puny stock coolers were made for the CPU, using them won't kill it but you will really, really hear when the processor is at 100% load. Which won't kill it either.
Better cooling have other benefits, tith a tower cooler I think I go 20-30c above ambient at a 100% sustained load and it is still quiet. Turning on the kitchen fan at low and sitting in another room is more noticeable.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Okay, a bit of autism here.
I like play dwarf fortress but I want higher performance. Apparently part of the issue with DF performance is the high amount of cache miss which is the sole reason Intel and AMD haven't stopped "innovating".
How effective would it be to run an Intel E7-8894 v4 (assuming I can get parts) with 60mb cache versus a regular consumer cpu? Will I even see any benefit? Is it fools folly to buy this shit off ebay?

 

[AmpleApricots]

I absolutely agree. Having a tower cooler or a liquid one with big fans keeps the temperature low but it also reduces the amount of sound coming out of your computer. To me, as a non-crazy person, that is the primary benefit. Puny stock coolers were made for the CPU, using them won't kill it but you will really, really hear when the processor is at 100% load. Which won't kill it either.
Better cooling have other benefits, tith a tower cooler I think I go 20-30c above ambient at a 100% sustained load and it is still quiet. Turning on the kitchen fan at low and sitting in another room is more noticeable.

Oh yes, good quality fans and heatsinks are still a must. There's no good reason to suffer "computer noise" these days.

When I got the Node 202 case I was a bit worried whetever the NH9a cooler I have would be enough without any additional airflow, but it's fine. My fan profile is set up to be basically idling at very low RPM and ramp up progressively more aggressive starting at around ~75C to stop the APU from overheating. In real usage this almost never happens and the computer is entirely silent. While researching such small cases, I got the impression the noise problems a lot of people experience is the fans being too close to the case exhausts causing wind turbulence, no matter how loud the fan itself is, especially since most exhausts aren't exactly aerodynamic.

That said, I am sure the cooler in it's current configuration probably pulls the hot air it just exhausted in again, which won't cool as well as it could, as there's no air flow in the case. A vent like construction to the exhaust only allowing to pull in air from the outside I'm willing to bet would add a lot of the cooling without really adding any additional "cost". I might try that for shits and giggles.

There's also bigger heatsinks that would fit the case like the AXP90-x53 and usually when in doubt, it's always best to get the biggest heatsink possible but I kind of don't want to spend the money and also the fan would then sit very close to the exhaust which again, probably would cause noise. Then that heatsink would be bigger but in the end, also not so big that it'd just eat the heat coming from the APU and all that would really change in the end is probably that fan spinning up a bit later which isn't worth the fifty bucks. In engineering the magic is to find the "good enough" solution, not the "perfect" solution that fits all possible imagined scenarios, since that one usually is considerably more costly and impractical.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

Okay, a bit of autism here.
I like play dwarf fortress but I want higher performance. Apparently part of the issue with DF performance is the high amount of cache miss which is the sole reason Intel and AMD haven't stopped "innovating".
How effective would it be to run an Intel E7-8894 v4 (assuming I can get parts) with 60mb cache versus a regular consumer cpu? Will I even see any benefit? Is it fools folly to buy this shit off ebay?

5800X3D will specifically benefit Dwarf Fortress in world generation. I don't play the game but I took note of this because it's an extreme example of the benefits of a large cache (DF portion starts at 7:27):

The IPC difference alone between a 5800X3D and Broadwell Xeon should work in favor of the consoomer part, and then it has a larger L3 cache. Each of those 8 cores can access the entire 96 MB of cache, but I'm not sure if each Xeon core can use the entire 60 MB. If there's some benefit to 24 cores vs. 8, I don't know about it.

The video also covers Factorio. Clearly, the 5800X3D is the choice for autists. But I'm guessing the E7-8894 v4 is much cheaper than its $9000 launch price.

 

[WULULULULU]

5800X3D will specifically benefit Dwarf Fortress in world generation. I don't play the game but I took note of this because it's an extreme example of the benefits of a large cache (DF portion starts at 7:27):

The IPC difference alone between a 5800X3D and Broadwell Xeon should work in favor of the consoomer part, and then it has a larger L3 cache. Each of those 8 cores can access the entire 96 MB of cache, but I'm not sure if each Xeon core can use the entire 60 MB. If there's some benefit to 24 cores vs. 8, I don't know about it.

The video also covers Factorio. Clearly, the 5800X3D is the choice for autists. But I'm guessing the E7-8894 v4 is much cheaper than its $9000 launch price.

Man I keep hearing from other people that the 5800X3D is a waste of money since the new generation CPUs are coming on AMD's side but out of curiosity from the Kiwis here, do you think it is? Performance-wise it beats the latest version of Intel's CPUs (provided it is not something like Autocad or game engine creation) but what about from a economic and a durability (i.e will it be obsolete later down the line) sense? Is it worth because between a regular 5800X and this other one, I'm considering options. This is also for helpful advice regarding a noob since I do plan on making my own gaming PC for the foreseeable future.

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

Man I keep hearing from other people that the 5800X3D is a waste of money since the new generation CPUs are coming on AMD's side but out of curiosity from the Kiwis here, do you think it is?

The 5800X3D is essentially a halo product for those that are still the Ryzen 1000/2000 CPU's and are willing to use that CPU for just as long as they used those. If you're on 3000+ or above and on 6 cores, might be worth looking at

 

[Just Some Other Guy]

The 5800X3D is really, really task dependent. I've heard of some amazing gains if what you're doing really loves cache.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

The 5800X3D is really, really task dependent. I've heard of some amazing gains if what you're doing really loves cache.

It would be interesting to benchmark bloated piece of shit garbage code on that one and a regular 5800.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

It would be interesting to benchmark bloated piece of shit garbage code on that one and a regular 5800.

??? What code? Are you saying they made the microcode even more shit?

 

[CreamyHerman’s]

??? What code? Are you saying they made the microcode even more shit?

I think he's talking about software, not the microcode

 

[AmpleApricots]

df is a poorly written game. If it doesn't run absolutely terrible on your current system buying an expensive CPU extra for it will only lead to disappointment. People were already doing this for df when the Pentium 4 was still pretty farspread and the Core2Duo became the standard and nobody ever ended up happy.

I haven't followed df's development in years but I'll blindly guess that it's still singlethreaded, so it doesn't even take advantage of more than one CPU core even though it does a lot of things that could be parallelized to a certain degree and would hugely benefit from additional threads. (e.g. pathfinding) Toady is self-admittedly not really a programmer and barely knows anything about computers. (This excuse of his has become kinda lame at this point since he's been working on df so long that he was already working as programmer when many actual programmers in the industry were still children) Don't go down the road trying to build a computer for games like this or e.g. rimworld. CPUs that run them well haven't been made yet and the problems lie elsewhere.

EDIT: Visited the bay12games forums for the first time in many years and it still looks the same and the report thread begged for money while he still rakes in about 10k in cash each month. Getting very Lowtaxian/SA vibes. Well at least toady was never a dick. (that I know of)

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

I think he's talking about software, not the microcode

Yes, exactly. I'm curious about how dumb and unoptimized code can be on the X3D while still running better than on a regular 5800X. I don't read the Yandere Sim thread but that game is infamously slow and developed by a moron, will a huge cache help with whatever is going on in his code?

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

df is a poorly written game. If it doesn't run absolutely terrible on your current system buying an expensive CPU extra for it will only lead to disappointment. People were already doing this for df when the Pentium 4 was still pretty farspread and the Core2Duo became the standard and nobody ever ended up happy.

I haven't followed df's development in years but I'll blindly guess that it's still singlethreaded, so it doesn't even take advantage of more than one CPU core even though it does a lot of things that could be parallelized to a certain degree and would hugely benefit from additional threads. (e.g. pathfinding) Toady is self-admittedly not really a programmer and barely knows anything about computers. (This excuse of his has become kinda lame at this point since he's been working on df so long that he was already working as programmer when many actual programmers in the industry were still children) Don't go down the road trying to build a computer for games like this or e.g. rimworld. CPUs that run them well haven't been made yet and the problems lie elsewhere.

EDIT: Visited the bay12games forums for the first time in many years and it still looks the same and the report thread begged for money while he still rakes in about 10k in cash each month. Getting very Lowtaxian/SA vibes. Well at least toady was never a dick. (that I know of)

He nuked the Oblock Meatgod dude but he was a pedo (Dude made a story of raping kids) so nothing of value was lost.
Also kicked off baystation group from SS13 since he didn't like them iirc.

 

[The Mass Shooter Ron Soye]

df is a poorly written game. If it doesn't run absolutely terrible on your current system buying an expensive CPU extra for it will only lead to disappointment. People were already doing this for df when the Pentium 4 was still pretty farspread and the Core2Duo became the standard and nobody ever ended up happy.

The 5800X3D is a niche CPU to recommend and $450 continues to be a bad price point for an 8-core, but OTOH it's one of the final upgrade paths for AM4 and you'll get stupidly high performance in certain games. We'll have to see how well it ages.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

Question.
Alongside the PSU issue, I am getting repeated "Soft locks" with no error code. I will not be able to open any new files or use explorer, and eventually everything will soft lock forcing a hard reset via the boot button. Upon running checkdisk at stage 5 it notes "an unspecified error has occurred" but it is not logged.


I thought it was a GPU issue (Aside from windows itself...) but I am beginning to think it is some sort of issue with the MB or NVME.
Have swapped out the RAM, storage, and tested different model GPU. No change and issue still persists. Bios corruption was an issue until I flashed it to an older version.
Any ideas would be helpful. my bet is on GPU or NVME drive shitting the bed.