Fallout series

Tor Lugosi said:
Yeah, degenerate furry modders not being able to do anything good with some design ideas from Van Buren shows that the people who made Planescape: Torment also wouldn't have been able to do anything worthwhile with the game.

New Vegas also uses a lot of Van Buren ideas. The Legion is an absolutely retarded idea that turned out decently due to strong writing.
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A lot of the stuff in Van Buren was also really fucking stupid.
 
Ser Prize said:
A lot of the stuff in Van Buren was also really fucking stupid.
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I remember reading a lot of the notes about Van Buren and realizing that some of it was literally just a slightly altered rewrite of Fallout 2 sans Enclave because the main villain was an NCR mad scientist who wanted to use a modified version of the New Plague to wipe out anything that wasn't human.

And the notes about Joshua Graham, man... fucking lame. Just a generic evil bad guy who causes tribals to attack you if you have him in your party. The Joshua Graham we got was vastly superior. Shit, I'd still argue he's one of the greatest religious characters in any video game, possibly in any form of media.
 
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Korpon said:
They also got a lot of the D.C. Metro area horribly wrong as well lol
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To me the biggest issue is how empty the map is. There's almost no signs of human habitation. You'd think there'd be more than a few half-intact suburbs, but nope. New Vegas on the other hand did a pretty good job of showing how built-up metropolitan areas are. There's water pumps, substations, half-intact burbs on the outskirts, industrial and tech areas... Meanwhile in FO3 you have... D.C. and Megaton, and then a few random whatevers dotted around that are just there because it seems like the developers just felt like that place needed a few burned-down houses. It says something that the fucking Nevada desert has more signs of habitation, both past and present, than the fucking D.C. area.
 
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Snekposter said:
To me the biggest issue is how empty the map is. There's almost no signs of human habitation. You'd think there'd be more than a few half-intact suburbs, but nope. New Vegas on the other hand did a pretty good job of showing how built-up metropolitan areas are. There's water pumps, substations, half-intact burbs on the outskirts, industrial and tech areas... Meanwhile in FO3 you have... D.C. and Megaton, and then a few random whatevers dotted around that are just there because it seems like the developers just felt like that place needed a few burned-down houses. It says something that the fucking Nevada desert has more signs of habitation, both past and present, than the fucking D.C. area.
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I think at least some of that might be chalked up to the fact that DC got hit a lot harder by the bombs. I mean, the white house is a massively radioactive crater, meanwhile Mr. House managed to use lasers built into the Lucky 38 and computer networks with broadcast capability to either disarm or shoot down all but 9 of the 77 nukes fired at the Vegas area, and none hit the city itself.
I doubt a gambling city like Las Vegas would be as high of a priority target as Washington DC which is the seat of our government power. The Chinese wanted that place fucking gone, and for the most part they got it.

Then you have the fact that DC is just plain nastier. There's more of everything everywhere. More raiders, more ghouls, more deathclaws, mirelurks, a huge army of marauding super mutants, etc. DC is an absolutely lawless wasteland outside of a few areas. For all New Vegas' talk about how unsafe the roads were there are really only a few places that get super dangerous, and some stretches of road with not a lot on them at all except some coyotes or easily avoided powder gangers. Fallout 3 often just threw shit at you.
Oh hey, having fun out there crawling around the broken landscape? Have a deathclaw!
Also probably hard to found a settlement when you have raiders trying to rape, kill, and rob you, slavers trying to haul you to The Pitt, and Super mutants hauling everyone off to become more muties or food.

One thing that kind of sucked about New Vegas, as realistic as it was, was how much nothing there was in it between locations. Like that dry lake near Nipton that had fuck all on it except a burned out car with a suitcase in the back and a toolbox. The only thing there at all was a few radscorpions and some ants, and a few sparse pickable plants.

Also, there were areas that could be considered inhabited, tho some are random encounters. I was constantly finding places where scavengers had holed up, usually with a dog.

Then there were Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, Rivet City, Arefu, Girdershade (which was just 2 people, to be fair), the subway inhabited by The Family, Reilly's Rangers compound in the DC ruins, Canterbury Commons, the Citadel, Big Town, Little Lamplight, Paradise Falls, Oasis, the Temple of the Union, Underworld, Greyditch (though its been destroyed by the time you get there), Vault 101, and of course all the fucking Raider and Talon Company camps goddamn everywhere like Evergreen Mills. Place gets even more inhabited once the Enclave shows up and starts setting up outposts.

I honestly never felt like the place lacked human inhabitants, just that they were very spread out.
 
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Exceptionally Exceptional said:
I think at least some of that might be chalked up to the fact that DC got hit a lot harder by the bombs. I mean, the white house is a massively radioactive crater, meanwhile Mr. House managed to use lasers built into the Lucky 38 and computer networks with broadcast capability to either disarm or shoot down all but 9 of the 77 nukes fired at the Vegas area, and none hit the city itself.
I doubt a gambling city like Las Vegas would be as high of a priority target as Washington DC which is the seat of our government power. The Chinese wanted that place fucking gone, and for the most part they got it.

Then you have the fact that DC is just plain nastier. There's more of everything everywhere. More raiders, more ghouls, more deathclaws, mirelurks, a huge army of marauding super mutants, etc. DC is an absolutely lawless wasteland outside of a few areas. For all New Vegas' talk about how unsafe the roads were there are really only a few places that get super dangerous, and some stretches of road with not a lot on them at all except some coyotes or easily avoided powder gangers. Fallout 3 often just threw shit at you.
Oh hey, having fun out there crawling around the broken landscape? Have a deathclaw!
Also probably hard to found a settlement when you have raiders trying to rape, kill, and rob you, slavers trying to haul you to The Pitt, and Super mutants hauling everyone off to become more muties or food.

One thing that kind of sucked about New Vegas, as realistic as it was, was how much nothing there was in it between locations. Like that dry lake near Nipton that had fuck all on it except a burned out car with a suitcase in the back and a toolbox. The only thing there at all was a few radscorpions and some ants, and a few sparse pickable plants.

Also, there were areas that could be considered inhabited, tho some are random encounters. I was constantly finding places where scavengers had holed up, usually with a dog.

Then there were Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, Rivet City, Arefu, Girdershade (which was just 2 people, to be fair), the subway inhabited by The Family, Reilly's Rangers compound in the DC ruins, Canterbury Commons, the Citadel, Big Town, Little Lamplight, Paradise Falls, Oasis, the Temple of the Union, Underworld, Little Lamplight, Greyditch (though its been destroyed by the time you get there), Vault 101, and of course all the fucking Raider and Talon Company camps goddamn everywhere like Evergreen Mills. Place gets even more inhabited once the Enclave shows up and starts setting up outposts.

I honestly never felt like the place lacked human inhabitants, just that they were very spread out.
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I think the issue with F3 is that it felt like the bombs had fallen maybe twenty years ago, rather than two centuries ago.
 
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My shitty two cents about immersion: with 3D titles one has to be in a great disbelief about the distances inbetween locations, as you can walk just few minutes to an another settlement, which creates an absurd scale of things where the distance inbetween two rivals can be so short they might as well just yell at each other, and imply that those 'few minutes' might have been tens or hundreds of miles, which is easier for 2D Fallouts since it has greater wiggle room for 'long travels' (the time on world map flies practically) and allows easy filler.

Same thing goes for the actual environments, for instances in NV like Legion's great camp being about 10 tents - or the Strip being a size of a mini-mall, while 2D has more leeway once again - just display that you're visiting just a part of a bigger city (good example here would be NEO Scavenger with its portrayal of futuristic Detroit in my opinion).

Even if I'm not looking through the protagonist eyes, sometimes its more easily be immersed in a world that has been carefully shaped to the player's experience albeit with some limitations rather than letting them run and jump everywhere and witness how the freedom really is just an illusion and a stinky one at that.

Maybe for fantasy settings, the city/town/village size isn't that bad because it's believable those weren't designed for hundreds/milions of people to live in, but for post-apocalypse setting seeing a city made out of three blocks is depressing in a sort of a way that was not intended by the writer. And that's mostly about FO3/NV cities, not to mention FO4's theme-park sized "cities" and tool-shed settlements.
 
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Vault Boy said:
Go for it. Automatron & Nuka World are good times, and Far Harbor might just be the best expansion Bethesda has made since Oblivion's Shivering Isles. The workshop DLCs are so-so, but some value can be found if you're into building settlements, and the Vault one has a solid dungeon to explore in addition to building.
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Talking about FO4, any suggestion of MODs? What are the "must have"?
 
Haunted Dishwasher said:
My shitty two cents about immersion: with 3D titles one has to be in a great disbelief about the distances inbetween locations, as you can walk just few minutes to an another settlement, which creates an absurd scale of things where the distance inbetween two rivals can be so short they might as well just yell at each other, and imply that those 'few minutes' might have been tens or hundreds of miles, which is easier for 2D Fallouts since it has greater wiggle room for 'long travels' (the time on world map flies practically) and allows easy filler.

Same thing goes for the actual environments, for instances in NV like Legion's great camp being about 10 tents - or the Strip being a size of a mini-mall, while 2D has more leeway once again - just display that you're visiting just a part of a bigger city (good example here would be NEO Scavenger with its portrayal of futuristic Detroit in my opinion).

Even if I'm not looking through the protagonist eyes, sometimes its more easily be immersed in a world that has been carefully shaped to the player's experience albeit with some limitations rather than letting them run and jump everywhere and witness how the freedom really is just an illusion and a stinky one at that.

Maybe for fantasy settings, the city/town/village size isn't that bad because it's believable those weren't designed for hundreds/milions of people to live in, but for post-apocalypse setting seeing a city made out of three blocks is depressing in a sort of a way that was not intended by the writer. And that's mostly about FO3/NV cities, not to mention FO4's theme-park sized "cities" and tool-shed settlements.
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I think the scale was more for the benefit of the players. While spending several hours or days to walk to the next settlement might be realistic, from a gameplay perspective it would also be fucking boring as all hell.
Not to mention that the player generally travels faster than most NPCs for longer. Most NPCs are seen walking, while the player runs. Imagine hitting capslock and slowly walking everywhere. It would suddenly take you an hour or more to get from Megaton to Greyditch. Most people don't travel by running simply because it's exhausting, but Fallout protagonists are inexhaustible fucking beasts.
 
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Overcast said:
Decided to revisit NexusMods for NV mods. I love how there’s a mod that has the Gay Pride flag inserted into the UI that only has about thirty downloads and on the same page I saw it there’s a feminine walking mod for female characters that has six thousand.

Sex. Sex never changes.
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Waifu mods are eternal.

Now if only someone made a mod to let me impregnate NPCs...
 
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Overcast said:
Decided to revisit NexusMods for NV mods. I love how there’s a mod that has the Gay Pride flag inserted into the UI that only has about thirty downloads and on the same page I saw it there’s a feminine walking mod for female characters that has six thousand.

Sex. Sex never changes.
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It's not all bad. Some dude is remastering all of Someguy's mods with higher res textures and fixing visual and audio glitches. I think Bounties I, bad mothafucka, and King Of The Ring are currently done.
 
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Exceptionally Exceptional said:
I think at least some of that might be chalked up to the fact that DC got hit a lot harder by the bombs. I mean, the white house is a massively radioactive crater, meanwhile Mr. House managed to use lasers built into the Lucky 38 and computer networks with broadcast capability to either disarm or shoot down all but 9 of the 77 nukes fired at the Vegas area, and none hit the city itself.
I doubt a gambling city like Las Vegas would be as high of a priority target as Washington DC which is the seat of our government power. The Chinese wanted that place fucking gone, and for the most part they got it.

Then you have the fact that DC is just plain nastier. There's more of everything everywhere. More raiders, more ghouls, more deathclaws, mirelurks, a huge army of marauding super mutants, etc. DC is an absolutely lawless wasteland outside of a few areas. For all New Vegas' talk about how unsafe the roads were there are really only a few places that get super dangerous, and some stretches of road with not a lot on them at all except some coyotes or easily avoided powder gangers. Fallout 3 often just threw shit at you.
Oh hey, having fun out there crawling around the broken landscape? Have a deathclaw!
Also probably hard to found a settlement when you have raiders trying to rape, kill, and rob you, slavers trying to haul you to The Pitt, and Super mutants hauling everyone off to become more muties or food.

One thing that kind of sucked about New Vegas, as realistic as it was, was how much nothing there was in it between locations. Like that dry lake near Nipton that had fuck all on it except a burned out car with a suitcase in the back and a toolbox. The only thing there at all was a few radscorpions and some ants, and a few sparse pickable plants.

Also, there were areas that could be considered inhabited, tho some are random encounters. I was constantly finding places where scavengers had holed up, usually with a dog.

Then there were Megaton, Tenpenny Tower, Rivet City, Arefu, Girdershade (which was just 2 people, to be fair), the subway inhabited by The Family, Reilly's Rangers compound in the DC ruins, Canterbury Commons, the Citadel, Big Town, Little Lamplight, Paradise Falls, Oasis, the Temple of the Union, Underworld, Greyditch (though its been destroyed by the time you get there), Vault 101, and of course all the fucking Raider and Talon Company camps goddamn everywhere like Evergreen Mills. Place gets even more inhabited once the Enclave shows up and starts setting up outposts.

I honestly never felt like the place lacked human inhabitants, just that they were very spread out.
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A big chunk of the places you mentioned are either in D.C. or directly adjacent to it. Underworld, the Temple of the Union, the Citadel, the Rangers... you also forgot to mention the Republic of Dave all the way out there in the Northeast. But again, take a look outside the D.C. area. Cliffs, random raider camps, a few burned houses... you'd think there'd be more left intact outside D.C. itself as opposed to inside. The White House is a crater, but half the places around it are mysteriously intact despite the city being nuked into oblivion as you say it was, especially when you add in Super Mutant shenanigans, feral ghouls left and right inside the metro... For a place that was on fire for potentially months (according to Carol the pre-war Ghoul) its shockingly intact.

I mean, my point is as you said, shit's sparse and spread out once you get past D.C. for no real reason. There should be plenty of semi-intact suburbs all over half the map to rifle through, constantly looking over our shoulders for raiders and cannibals who prey on each other just as much as the innocent. But there's no congruence to it.
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Look, its a couple gas pumps, a metro station, and a grocer and an electronics shop. Nothing else. That's the sort of thing you'd expect from the boonies, not D.C-adjacent Maryland. There's a near total lack of infrastructure aside from dedicated set-pieces. None of it feels the least bit organic.
 
Snekposter said:
A big chunk of the places you mentioned are either in D.C. or directly adjacent to it. Underworld, the Temple of the Union, the Citadel, the Rangers... you also forgot to mention the Republic of Dave all the way out there in the Northeast. But again, take a look outside the D.C. area. Cliffs, random raider camps, a few burned houses... you'd think there'd be more left intact outside D.C. itself as opposed to inside. The White House is a crater, but half the places around it are mysteriously intact despite the city being nuked into oblivion as you say it was, especially when you add in Super Mutant shenanigans, feral ghouls left and right inside the metro... For a place that was on fire for potentially months (according to Carol the pre-war Ghoul) its shockingly intact.

I mean, my point is as you said, shit's sparse and spread out once you get past D.C. for no real reason. There should be plenty of semi-intact suburbs all over half the map to rifle through, constantly looking over our shoulders for raiders and cannibals who prey on each other just as much as the innocent. But there's no congruence to it.
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Look, its a couple gas pumps, a metro station, and a grocer and an electronics shop. Nothing else. That's the sort of thing you'd expect from the boonies, not D.C-adjacent Maryland. There's a near total lack of infrastructure aside from dedicated set-pieces. None of it feels the least bit organic.
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It's even worse when you remember that Bethesda themselves are in Bethesda Maryland and for some reason included their own bombed out headquarters in the game
 
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Playing FO4, no MODs (for now), and enjoying it...
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Until this fucker showed up. I just want murder thing with my dog and killer robot butler, fix my power armor and found my kid. Now i have to build a community or something.
 
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Hikaru86 said:
Playing FO4, no MODs (for now), and enjoying it...
View attachment 3437107
Until this fucker showed up. I just want murder thing with my dog and killer robot butler, fix my power armor and found my kid. Now i have to build a community or something.
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Did Bethesda ever have any sort of patch that made him pester the player less often or anything like that?
 
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