George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

[Kiwisee]

Maybe if Martin got off his ass and finished Winds of Winter in a timely manner then we wouldn’t have to deal with “toxic fans and podcasts”.

House of Dragons has bad PR as is, especially with the majority of the GOT fandom just rolling their eyes at it since they know it’s taking time away from WoW.

Martin would probably gain more respect if he just admitted that he’s not really into the books anymore. It’d be honest, at the very least

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I really liked the new PoVs of Book 4. Cersei has definitely the most entertaining chapters.

The thing with Cersei is that, despite all efforts of HBO to show her as a Powerful Woman™, she's really not very popular among feminists because she's meant to be a criticism of modern feminism. Cersei hates women and hates being herself a woman and thinks people put her down for being a woman. That's one thing the show did right, Tywin telling her he didn't dismiss her for being a woman but because she's an idiot. Even though some try to defend her saying she's a victim of Westeros' sexism (like how she noticed very young that, despite she's similar to her brother in everything, they were treated differently), she was never able to grew out of that resentment and took it on innocent women like Sansa or Margaery.

In book 4, Arianne is meant to be her contrast. Arianne has power by blood and she's right to be mad if anybody wants to take that away from her; Cersei thinks she's entitled to be a Queen despite she's only the wife (and then mother) of the King. Arianne also was able to grew out of her resentment, while Cersei, having all power to do changes and even help herself into a better position, she's stuck in her own hate.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Maybe if Martin got off his ass and finished Winds of Winter in a timely manner then we wouldn’t have to deal with “toxic fans and podcasts”.

House of Dragons has bad PR as is, especially with the majority of the GOT fandom just rolling their eyes at it since they know it’s taking time away from WoW.

Martin would probably gain more respect if he just admitted that he’s not really into the books anymore. It’d be honest, at the very least

I mean, he could find another author that he thinks is up to the task and hand over the torch. Then he just needs to read the submitted manuscript and decide if it's worthy of publishing, then sit back and take a cut of the sales.

 

[AnyballLecter]

If you are interested in the most passionate GRRM novel purist, to the point of lunacy, check out

THE DRAGON DEMANDS​

... thread, created here in July 2022 on our very own Kiwi Farms.

 

[Muttnik]

Tywin was the only saving grace of the books and show, change my mind.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Want it moved to Community Watch? I'll gladly do it.

I was hoping to make a community watch, but I could see why this would be put in multimedia.

If you are interested in the most passionate GRRM novel purist, to the point of lunacy, check out

THE DRAGON DEMANDS​

... thread, created here in July 2022 on our very own Kiwi Farms.

The link didn’t work for me but I found it with search. https://kiwifarms.net/threads/rudy-...iii-the-dragon-demands-adragondemands.123354/ He’s a funny dude.

 

[augment]

The rightful bearer of the title "American Tolkien" is Robert Jordan. Change my mind.

View attachment 3510001

And not just in his writing. Jordan (real name James O. Rigney) was an absolute Chad, a Renaissance Man.

• Decorated Vietnam veteran
• Majored in physics at the Citadel (the West Point of the South)
• Worked as a nuclear engineer
• Theater and dance director
• Hunter, fisherman, poker player
• Pipe collector

Died before he could "finish" his fantasy epic, and I am being honorably optimistic when I say "finish" because it becomes clear from book 3 onwards that Eye of the World has nowhere to go but the bills need to get paid somehow. Spawned Brandon Sanderson autistic micro-realism where, at the cost of having a story, we get several hundred pages worth of explaining how your fantasy magical system works, in case you wanted to fucking know.
I'll take Cordwainer Smith, Roger Zelazny and Robert Ervin Howard any day over this fraud.

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

I was hoping to make a community watch, but I could see why this would be put in multimedia.

So, I'll take that as a "No"?

 

[Meat Target]

Died before he could "finish" his fantasy epic, and I am being honorably optimistic when I say "finish" because it becomes clear from book 3 onwards that Eye of the World has nowhere to go but the bills need to get paid somehow. Spawned Brandon Sanderson autistic micro-realism where, at the cost of having a story, we get several hundred pages worth of explaining how your fantasy magical system works, in case you wanted to fucking know.
I'll take Cordwainer Smith, Roger Zelazny and Robert Ervin Howard any day over this fraud.

How dare you insult my Mormon master of metal magic.

Gargle buckshot.

 

[nikma]

That second article was garbage.

Diversity and "rape culture " were the least of GoT's problems

 

[AnyballLecter]

The rapes were diverse and interesting.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

The rightful bearer of the title "American Tolkien" is Robert Jordan. Change my mind.

View attachment 3510001

And not just in his writing. Jordan (real name James O. Rigney) was an absolute Chad, a Renaissance Man.

• Decorated Vietnam veteran
• Majored in physics at the Citadel (the West Point of the South)
• Worked as a nuclear engineer
• Theater and dance director
• Hunter, fisherman, poker player
• Pipe collector

I remember when I first heard about and checked out ASOIAF at the end of the 00s (this was before the TV show was announced), it was always people debating whether Jordan or GRRM were the best.

I mean, he could find another author that he thinks is up to the task and hand over the torch. Then he just needs to read the submitted manuscript and decide if it's worthy of publishing, then sit back and take a cut of the sales.

Hopefully when he dies, someone will actually bother to finish it.

Tywin was the only saving grace of the books and show, change my mind.

He was as much of a dick as everyone else and since his entire cause was propping up an inbred asshole as king, his death was karmatic justice.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I was hoping to make a community watch, but I could see why this would be put in multimedia.

The link didn’t work for me but I found it with search. https://kiwifarms.net/threads/rudy-...iii-the-dragon-demands-adragondemands.123354/ He’s a funny dude.

I remember the guy from my days of being around the ASOIAF fandom. He's a very entitled cunt who thinks he's the fandom authority over people who's been around for more than a decade.

 

[RandallBoggs]

snip

Granted it's been ages since I read the books but off the top of my head, she's very VERY different.

For starters she's like 14 years old in the latest book, not in her early 20s. So you're talking about a literal child making stupid mistakes you'd expect from a naïve child. Her whole B plot in Essos is massive compared to the show, her conquering that city I can't remember the name of and fighting to abolish slavery resulted in a whole goddamn war that's still going on at least for the next book. We see through multiple different POV characters the impact this war has, but who knows maybe it will actually end in a similar way to the show with Dany just straight up going "lol k bye fix this mess I made I'm out" and Essos being completely forgotten.
I don't doubt her fate might end up being the same as it was in the show (ie she goes mad like her other relatives and has to be killed) but at the very least it will probably build up in a more believable manner instead of her character just going from 0 to 100 in the span of one episode.

snip

All of my gripes with Dothraki portrayal are summed up with that one scene where Jorah tells Daenerys "there's no word for 'thank you' in Dothraki"
Fuck off with that edgy gay shit, good lord

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

All of my gripes with Dothraki portrayal are summed up with that one scene where Jorah tells Daenerys "there's no word for 'thank you' in Dothraki"
Fuck off with that edgy gay shit, good lord

The Dothraki shit really sounds like some closet/cuck porn, that finds a bizarre need to talk on how "super manly" and "hardcore" those riders are.

 

[Tasty Tatty]

Why people think Dany's the one who's turning mad at the end and not Jon when he's also a Targaryan? Aerys the Mad King was normal when he was young. Show Dany isn't book Dany: Book Dany is more contemplative and more able to self-reflection. She also has more emotions than Boss Bitch™ as in the show, where she never smiled or laughed. For all the shit she's gone through, she's still able to show compassion and enjoy simple things. The only moment when she's been ruthless is when the slavers crucified children to spit her, so she crucified them and it was very justified. Jon, otoh, has had a couple moments of rage and violence and he has a tendency to brood like his father. Yet, nobody says "oh, he will go mad like his grandfather!"

The whole "Targaryens are mad!" idea is very exaggerated, imo. They're eccentric for being royals and very entitled because they considered themselves almost gods, but that's not the same as being insane. Then most of our current politicians would be also considered schizophrenic.

 

[AnyballLecter]

Jon Snow's mother is a Stark. Some Targs go loopy due possibly to inbreeding and dragon dreams (visions) or some other thing that makes them magical and connected to dragons.

Why instead of all the strawmen arguments against GRRM, people aren't more weirded out by the incest?​

- Targ family tree doesn't branch.
- Jaime + Cersei (which given it started when they were kids, is extra fucked up). Show almost had a 'stop incest shaming' message at the end, with other characters seeming sympathetic, but that may not have been GRRM behind that.
- Craster and his daughters is ghoulish.
- Original book pitch had a love triangle plot including Arya and Jon. They are actually only cousins, but they grew up like siblings.

 

[Halmaz]

Granted it's been ages since I read the books but off the top of my head, she's very VERY different.

Thank you for the clarification. I am glad at least in the book, her rampage through Essos has notable consequences, plus her young age explains her missteps. Obviously, the TV adaptation had to make her older, but I believe they should have adjusted her personality to better match her age. The only time, when I was somewhat invested in her story arc in the show, when she liberated the Unsullied. I thought she was finally going to do something interesting, other than fumbling around, but no. She had to settle down, tried to rule, royally fucked it up, promptly decided she is ready to take on Westeros and left Essos behind, in a mess, as you said. I also hated how Tyrion, blindly supported her throughout this, because he "believed in her". It was completely out of character based on earlier seasons.

 

[Kiwisee]

Jon Snow's mother is a Stark. Some Targs go loopy due possibly to inbreeding and dragon dreams (visions) or some other thing that makes them magical and connected to dragons.

Why instead of all the strawmen arguments against GRRM, people aren't more weirded out by the incest?​

- Targ family tree doesn't branch.
- Jaime + Cersei (which given it started when they were kids, is extra fucked up). Show almost had a 'stop incest shaming' message at the end, with other characters seeming sympathetic, but that may not have been GRRM behind that.
- Craster and his daughters is ghoulish.
- Original book pitch had a love triangle plot including Arya and Jon. They are actually only cousins, but they grew up like siblings.

To be honest, I just thought it was an attempt at shock value from GRRM’s part and didn’t really acknowledge it in my previous post; but you’re right!

I have to wonder if it’s a fetish of his or if he’s trying way too hard to shock the audience with as much degeneracy as he can shove into the books.

 

[AnyballLecter]

I have to wonder if it’s a fetish of his or if he’s trying way too hard to shock the audience with as much degeneracy as he can shove into the books.

My most generous interpretation is he just took a warped aspect of historical monarchies (Europe, Pharoahs) and turned it up to 11 for his fantasy society. But yeah ...