Sony hate thread

I lost all interest in sony when they released the PS4. A total lack of any interesting first party titles compared to the PS2 and PS3 made the system utterly useless when I already had a PC, and Soyny jumping on the California woke train was the final nail in the coffin.

Looks like this will be another PS3 generation, where it's really only worth buying the console once the slim versions come out near the end of its lifespan, although given the direction of GT7 and how games are getting PC releases now even that's being called into question.
That's what annoyed me the most about the PS3. It's like they were schizophrenic and couldn't stick to just ONE model, but had to make like 15 bajillion different version of the fucker, the later ones REALLY trying to push that Blu-Ray shit like it was the greatest technology ever made.

The first PS3 that could play both PS1 and PS2 games was fucking perfect. All they had to do was stick to that stucture and make it "the ultimate playstation system" while allowing for manual hardware upgrades (specifically a better HDD), and they would have been making fucking BANK. Hardcores could customize it however they wanted while the casuals had a fuck-ton of games, specifically back-catalog of stuff, they could play from if they didn't want to venture into the new shit.

But IMO this was the time where Sony lost their way and started doing stupid shit that lead them to the position they are in now.
That was because Sony was desperate to reduce costs.


Every 60 GB $600 PS3 was selling at a $240 loss, allegedly. On gaming forums that are long dead and buried, there was speculation that the true loss per console was closer to $400. Two years later, it led to sony losing $3 BILLION on console sales


And EVEN THEN, with two process node die shrinks and mass simplifcation of the console, the final PS3 slim model selling at $300 was still losing roughly $18 per console.


Sony finally managed to make the PS3 break even by introducing the super slim PS3, which in addition to much cheaper materials also used cheaper sizaxis hardware in its controller.

Fun fact: the reason the PS#3 lost backwards compatibility is due to the emotion engine. The PS2 was so autistically complicated that they simply had to build and entire PS2 EE onto the OG PS3 motherboard. It was also used for blu ray access. The PS1 controller was used for controller input and is used for PS1 games.

In case you ever wondered why the PS3 with 3 total game consoles in it lost money at $600.....
Maybe the Emotion Engine chip produced too much heat and Sony couldn't figure out how to remedy it quickly. PS3s and 360s were horrible with cooling themselves until much later.
It wasnt the emotion engine chip. Remember the super slim PS2, the one the size of an address book? Same chip, on a larger process node. The EE only pulled 15-20 watts during operation.

The CELL engine, OTOH, was a disaster. To keep it short, the original PS3 CPU was built on the same process node as the apple G5. and both shared some of IBM's PowerPC 970FX tech. The G5, if you remember, was so hot apple had to use GM dexcool radiators in the damn thing. The Cell was larger and far more complex (and power hungry) then the G5 was. High CELL usage + GPU usage could push 400 watts and frankly the cooling tech of 2005 was NOTHING like what we have today. (and 400w of power draw on 2005 process nodes is NOTHING like 400w on modern 7nm nodes for many physics related reasons).

Also, frankly, the YLOD problem on the PS3 was nowhere near as widespread. It's still easy to find functioning 60 GB PS3s from 2006 out there, but launch 360s that function properly are rare as hens teeth.

The Xbox CPU, the Xenox, was also built on the same process and used the Cell tech, but only used the main PPE and none of the SSEs, instead using three PPEs as a traditional tri-core CPU. While less complex, it was obnoxiously power hungry.
 
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Fun fact: the reason the PS#3 lost backwards compatibility is due to the emotion engine. The PS2 was so autistically complicated that they simply had to build and entire PS2 EE onto the OG PS3 motherboard. It was also used for blu ray access. The PS1 controller was used for controller input and is used for PS1 games.
As I remember it PS2 compatibility wasn't gone after removing the physical EE(it was replaced by emulation), it was after removing the GS. The GS had more bandwidth with its embedded DRAM than anything on the PS3(not counting caches), which Yamauchi lamented when making Gran Turismo 4, so emulating it would be a tall order.
 
As I remember it PS2 compatibility wasn't gone after removing the physical EE(it was replaced by emulation), it was after removing the GS. The GS had more bandwidth with its embedded DRAM than anything on the PS3(not counting caches), which Yamauchi lamented when making Gran Turismo 4, so emulating it would be a tall order.
Well kinda, it DOES work, but only about 70% of the games work correctly. Some others dont work at all, graphical issues are common.


Emulation isnt easy, even today the PCSX2, while having 60GB PS3 tier compatibility, still struggles with things like the flames in the dark alliance games.

Also I omitting something from last nights post. The true cause of console failures was not just the excessive thermal cycling from the consoles running at near TJMAX, it was compounded by the rosin core solder that was used in place of lead solder that was being banned in consumer electronics at the time. Rosin core at the time was new, and couldnt take the same thermal cycling that lead could.

Multiple thermal cycles would result in cracks forming inside solder joints, and the resulting RROD/YLOD. Newer consoles fixed this with transistor node shrinks that reduced power draw, and thus temperature reached during operation, but the issue was not truly resolved until the redesigned ps3 slim/xbox 360 s cooling systems were introduced that kept the processors far cooler combined with newer solder formulations that were resistant to cracking.
 
Multiple thermal cycles would result in cracks forming inside solder joints, and the resulting RROD/YLOD. Newer consoles fixed this with transistor node shrinks that reduced power draw, and thus temperature reached during operation, but the issue was not truly resolved until the redesigned ps3 slim/xbox 360 s cooling systems were introduced that kept the processors far cooler combined with newer solder formulations that were resistant to cracking.
Did Sony/Microsoft just not give a shit or listen to their QA department back then? Between this and Microsoft compacting everything in that small space with the OG 360, how was "cooling the system so it doesn't explode/melt/malfunction" not top priority?
 
Did Sony/Microsoft just not give a shit or listen to their QA department back then? Between this and Microsoft compacting everything in that small space with the OG 360, how was "cooling the system so it doesn't explode/melt/malfunction" not top priority?
Gaming Historian did a pretty good job explaining what exactly happened:
tl;dw:
  • Xbox 360 was massively rushed to get it out the door for Christmas 2005
  • In August '05, an engineer outright asked Peter Moore (king of Xbox at the time) to shut down production due to the myriad of issues, only for him to say no
  • As a result, only 32% of all Xbox 360 consoles manufactured actually worked, with the other 68% being tossed into a "bone pile".
    • This cartoonishly abysmal failure rate led to launch shortages, too
  • Just about every Xbox 360, including working ones, would eventually break down in customer's hands anyway due to the Red Ring of Death, which was when three quadrants around your 360's power button lit up red lights on boot, indicating a general hardware failure.
  • By the top of 2007, sales were plummeting, and Microsoft temporarily shut down production altogether to get down to brass tacks and figure out what went wrong
  • By Summer 2007, Microsoft engineers figgered out what went wrong
  • Overall, repairs would cost a total of $1,150,000,000 and also $200,000,000 would go to shipping costs alone, for everyone to get their consoles exchanged
  • By 2008, Microsoft got 360 production down to only an 8% failure rate
  • In December 2021, Microsoft confirmed exactly what was killing so many systems, and it was what the internet rumor mill had been saying for years: bad solder.
    • Specifically, what was happening was the heating/cooling cycle was causing the solder to flex, and eventually break. The video shows a diagram of a GPU connected to its interposer with solder balls.
      • This also explains why some people had some success with sticking their 360 in an oven for a little while, to sort of reheat the entire console and get another few hours out of it
 
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Speaking of slightly refurbished movie games, why are the Uncharted PC ports still missing in action, with other ports announced afterwards having come out already? The PS5 version and the literal movie came out quite a while ago at this point.

Druckmann is probably throwing a huge fit behind the scenes; Sony had to shove off this port to Iron Galaxy instead of doing it in-house, which all the others have been.
 
Gaming Historian did a pretty good job explaining what exactly happened:
tl;dw:
  • Xbox 360 was massively rushed to get it out the door for Christmas 2005
  • In August '05, an engineer outright asked Peter Moore (king of Xbox at the time) to shut down production due to the myriad of issues, only for him to say no
  • As a result, only 32% of all Xbox 360 consoles manufactured actually worked, with the other 68% being tossed into a "bone pile".
    • This cartoonishly abysmal failure rate led to launch shortages, too
  • Just about every Xbox 360, including working ones, would eventually break down in customer's hands anyway due to the Red Ring of Death, which was when three quadrants around your 360's power button lit up red lights on boot, indicating a general hardware failure.
  • By the top of 2007, sales were plummeting, and Microsoft temporarily shut down production altogether to get down to brass tacks and figure out what went wrong
  • By Summer 2007, Microsoft engineers figgered out what went wrong
  • Overall, repairs would cost a total of $1,150,000,000 and also $200,000,000 would go to shipping costs alone, for everyone to get their consoles exchanged
  • By 2008, Microsoft got 360 production down to only an 8% failure rate
  • In December 2021, Microsoft confirmed exactly what was killing so many systems, and it was what the internet rumor mill had been saying for years: bad solder.
    • Specifically, what was happening was the heating/cooling cycle was causing the solder to flex, and eventually break. The video shows a diagram of a GPU connected to its interposer with solder balls.
      • This also explains why some people had some success with sticking their 360 in an oven for a little while, to sort of reheat the entire console and get another few hours out of it
From what I understand from talking to people about it years ago is that Microsoft used the lead-free solder which has a lower melting point. The heat from 360 hardware was causing the solder to heat up and reflow. This would cause the parts to get lose and lose connections with the board.
 
From what I understand from talking to people about it years ago is that Microsoft used the lead-free solder which has a lower melting point. The heat from 360 hardware was causing the solder to heat up and reflow. This would cause the parts to get lose and lose connections with the board.
They didn't choose lead-free solder, they had to use it because of new EU regulations iirc. Sony probably benefited greatly from having a more mature manufacturing process when the PS3 was released and I really think that If both consoles had launched in 2005 both of them would have had that problem.
 
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Druckmann is probably throwing a huge fit behind the scenes; Sony had to shove off this port to Iron Galaxy instead of doing it in-house, which all the others have been.
Actually it probably had to do with speed, they had no first party games last quarter. Horizon Forbidden West and GT7 came out the prior quarter. And they needed something just out the door.

They're spending a ton of money on studio acquisitions for long term prospects and hired more legal people for positions which means something large is in the works. They're playing very long games with everything, but if stuff like the Square Enix buyout turns out to be true then they're now in charge of the current largest MMO and a slew of valuable IPs which goes in line with their dozen+ live service games that they want. So having a remake or remaster out for a quick buck to subsidize their actions makes at least some sense until all the deals are finalized and they can start generating revenue streams from those new deals.
 
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Actually it probably had to do with speed, they had no first party games last quarter. Horizon Forbidden West and GT7 came out the prior quarter. And they needed something just out the door.

They're spending a ton of money on studio acquisitions for long term prospects and hired more legal people for positions which means something large is in the works. They're playing very long games with everything, but if stuff like the Square Enix buyout turns out to be true then they're now in charge of the current largest MMO and a slew of valuable IPs which goes in line with their dozen+ live service games that they want. So having a remake or remaster out for a quick buck to subsidize their actions makes at least some sense until all the deals are finalized and they can start generating revenue streams from those new deals.

Fucking SPEED? This half-assed port job is almost a year out from announcement with no release date yet, and all the others were about 3 months from reveal to out the door.
 
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