Off-Topic Losing people to transgenderism support thread - Support group for trans widows and other people who lost loved ones to troonism

[LonesomeDud]

I sat in on a conversation between two of my friends today discussing whether Jesus was gay or a transwoman. It's the second or third time I've heard this argument and I still don't think it holds any water. I'm tired and don't want to play.

Meanwhile, I'm dragging my trans friend to psych appointments hoping to unravel the mess in his head before he offs himself. His transition is going so great!

Spoiler: Bible sperging

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians

Per Jesus to your friend: Don't worry about it. Jesus would have no interest in gender stuff and considered worldly and crass. That's pretty clear if you read the New Testament.

Gay? Jesus both lived the Law perfectly to God's standards, but we also know he did things that the Old Testament said were sins. Revelation 19:16 tells us Jesus has a tattoo on his thigh, but per Leviticus 19:28, “You shall not make gashes in your flesh for the dead, or incise any marks on yourselves.” So the tattoo when Jesus did it wasn't a sin in the eyes of God. So it's a little more unclear if Jesus would have had homosexual feelings, certainly. I doubt Jesus had homosexual sex, but I suppose it could happen. I'm just not sure.

I have a colleague who is non-binary and six months later on testosterone she has three facial hairs, horrendous acne, and went from being quiet and hard-working to being really sloppy in her work and mean/

 

[Mrs. Addams]

At one point you just have to give up and realise that nothing can be done to fix an individual who refuses help. May he find Jesus in his life.

Yeah, I know. I've heard that there's a link between skitsophrenia and gender confusion, so I'm trying to get him on meds and see if it helps.

Spoiler: Bible sperging

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians

Per Jesus to your friend: Don't worry about it. Jesus would have no interest in gender stuff and considered worldly and crass. That's pretty clear if you read the New Testament.

Gay? Jesus both lived the Law perfectly to God's standards, but we also know he did things that the Old Testament said were sins. Revelation 19:16 tells us Jesus has a tattoo on his thigh, but per Leviticus 19:28, “You shall not make gashes in your flesh for the dead, or incise any marks on yourselves.” So the tattoo when Jesus did it wasn't a sin in the eyes of God. So it's a little more unclear if Jesus would have had homosexual feelings, certainly. I doubt Jesus had homosexual sex, but I suppose it could happen. I'm just not sure.

That's super interesting. I never thought about the tattoo thing! The argument for Jesus being gay/trans seems to center around him hanging out with a bunch of guys, being nice to people (which is feminine) and lying his head on John's chest that one time. I don't think that's enough to brand him trans... especially since the Romans had him executed for being a rabbelrouser, not a woman.

 

[Corn Flakes]

That's super interesting. I never thought about the tattoo thing! The argument for Jesus being gay/trans seems to center around him hanging out with a bunch of guys, being nice to people (which is feminine) and lying his head on John's chest that one time. I don't think that's enough to brand him trans... especially since the Romans had him executed for being a rabbelrouser, not a woman.

That's applying modern concepts of manliness to people who lived (if they lived) over two thousand years ago. The one where he hung out around men a lot is the most laughable of the lot. There were far more sex-segregated spaces back then. You weren't supposed to interact a lot with women you weren't related or married to.

It's like saying the Ancient Greeks were all flaming flamboyantly gay because they did most of their athletics in the nude, including full-contact wrestling.

Fuck this historical revisionism.

 

[LonesomeDud]

Yeah, I know. I've heard that there's a link between skitsophrenia and gender confusion, so I'm trying to get him on meds and see if it helps.

That's super interesting. I never thought about the tattoo thing! The argument for Jesus being gay/trans seems to center around him hanging out with a bunch of guys, being nice to people (which is feminine) and lying his head on John's chest that one time. I don't think that's enough to brand him trans... especially since the Romans had him executed for being a rabbelrouser, not a woman.

Jesus probably would have been completely lost with the idea of modern gender identity. Even the "trans women" mentioned in ancient Roman times weren't men who thought they were women who were born into the wrong body, but it's not even like it was common knowledge enough that some random carpenter would have even encountered one in his travels.

John was also a cousin of Jesus, and it just wasn't uncommon to express fraternal love between friends. Most guys hung out with guy friends if they were single. The rules of modern society just didn't apply. I don't know why people always try to modernize things.

 

[LinkinParkxNaruto[AMV]]

That's applying modern concepts of manliness to people who lived (if they lived) over two thousand years ago. The one where he hung out around men a lot is the most laughable of the lot. There were far more sex-segregated spaces back then. You weren't supposed to interact a lot with women you weren't related or married to.

It's like saying the Ancient Greeks were all flaming flamboyantly gay because they did most of their athletics in the nude, including full-contact wrestling.

Fuck this historical revisionism.

There are african countries were is accepted for male friends to walk around holding hands and in the same countries they'd still stone you to death for being a fag. Some people need to understand you can't simply project 2022's American culture and morals to all places and ages because it doesn't work like that.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

Well how about that, a perfect place to lay a friendship to rest:

Real name: Bongo79, aka John Thorton
Fake name: Jeanne Thorton
emails: bongo79@aol.com (dead), jwthornton@gmail.com
Born on Groundhog Day, 1983.

John wrote the "Rhygar" trilogy of ZZT games that was one of the crown jewels of the fandom even if it was never totally finished. Besides making half-decent artwork of the main characters on his now-defunct blog, John even managed to write a decent short story, "Gatherwatch".

I'll pause here to mention that an illustrated trilogy with its own fanfic, none of which were objectively bad, was absolutely unheard of even in the heyday of the ZZT community.

All of these links were dug up by a truly dedicated autist trying to get the band back together at zzt.org - only to find that an amazing author was now mentally ill and cranking out literature that should be burned. Shitty self-made website and horrible webcomic if you feel like LOL'ing at the garbage he turns out now.

Dozens of bounced emails, dead links and good folks vanished into the ether...and one of the very few we DID get ahold of is a tranny freak. F.M.L. Growing up blows.

 

[One Quick Post]

Well how about that, a perfect place to lay a friendship to rest:

Real name: Bongo79, aka John Thorton
Fake name: Jeanne Thorton
emails: bongo79@aol.com (dead), jwthornton@gmail.com
Born on Groundhog Day, 1983.

John wrote the "Rhygar" trilogy of ZZT games that was one of the crown jewels of the fandom even if it was never totally finished. Besides making half-decent artwork of the main characters on his now-defunct blog, John even managed to write a decent short story, "Gatherwatch".

I'll pause here to mention that an illustrated trilogy with its own fanfic, none of which were objectively bad, was absolutely unheard of even in the heyday of the ZZT community.

All of these links were dug up by a truly dedicated autist trying to get the band back together at zzt.org - only to find that an amazing author was now mentally ill and cranking out literature that should be burned. Shitty self-made website and horrible webcomic if you feel like LOL'ing at the garbage he turns out now.

Dozens of bounced emails, dead links and good folks vanished into the ether...and one of the very few we DID get ahold of is a tranny freak. F.M.L. Growing up blows.

This is not really on-topic but this is the only time this will ever be relevant. The creator of the ZZT spinoff GCS MegaZeux, Gregory Janson, also trooned out. Goes by Alexis now, went on to join Wizards of the Coast where they were eventually lead designer for one MTG set, Dragon's Maze, which apparently sucked but I don't know anything about the game.

There's something attractive about transgenderism to this kind of person. He trooned out in the mid-2000s though, so it was well before it was cool and in-fashion. He is also an amazing example of the difference between a candid photo of a trans person, and a photo with filters and makeup.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

Seeing my sister trying to LARP as a doughly manlet makes me want to snicker whenever I see it. I'm past pity at this point.

I am unable to take the clown world approach when it comes to my own sister. Maybe because I have lost most of my family already and she's still alive but will never be the person I grew up with again.

That's applying modern concepts of manliness to people who lived (if they lived) over two thousand years ago. The one where he hung out around men a lot is the most laughable of the lot. There were far more sex-segregated spaces back then. You weren't supposed to interact a lot with women you weren't related or married to.

It's like saying the Ancient Greeks were all flaming flamboyantly gay because they did most of their athletics in the nude, including full-contact wrestling.

Fuck this historical revisionism.

This. I'm sick of fags self-inserting into history and religion because some small details of history or religious texts kind of reminds them of modern nutjob behavior. Postmodernist interpretations of the past are bankrupt, you cannot analyze history through the lens of today or you wind up a hysteric like the 1619 assholes and "living document" retards.

 

[Professor G. Raff]

This is the most heavy thread on the farms. Whenever I come and read the accumulated posts I am always filled with sadness and a lingering feeling I shouldn't come back for my own mental health and that is just as an outsider looking in at situations that seem unbearable for those effected. At the same time, it's full of genuine heart-warming support that makes it feel like there is still some warmth in the world. My biggest take-away is the shocking amount of abuse and manipulation of women forced into adjacency of the tranny-sphere by MtFs... those stories are always so visceral and just show how often it's nothing but a ploy for control and fetish fulfillment. It really makes me appreciate the farms for giving them a place to vent about it as I would bet anything trans-widows would probably be one of the most savagery attacked groups on the normie internet.

 

[Aunt Carol]

My biggest take-away is the shocking amount of abuse and manipulation of women forced into adjacency of the tranny-sphere by MtFs... those stories are always so visceral and just show how often it's nothing but a ploy for control and fetish fulfillment. It really makes me appreciate the farms for giving them a place to vent about it as I would bet anything trans-widows would probably be one of the most savagery attacked groups on the normie internet.

When a mainstream women's magazine says something about not having to stick with yo' man even though he's become your woman and thus oppressed, we will know that the tide is slowly turning. It'll be gentle and couched in woke language, but just the idea that you can decline to coddle a troon will be like a coded transmission to a thousand sleeper agents.

 

[Rich Evans Ayypologist]

Wizards of the Coast where they were eventually lead designer for one MTG set, Dragon's Maze, which apparently sucked but I don't know anything about the game.

Literally the worst set, or at the very least the bottom three, of the entire game's existence

 

[King Dead]

I'm grateful that, as of yet at least, no one in my family and none of my real life friends have trooned out. But it hurts to have seen multiple online friends fall into the troon web over the years, often with no prelude. One day they're as normal as ever, and then the next it feels like a switch has flipped and they go whole-hog into troonery.

Spoiler: troon stories

One of them mentioned to me a few years ago that he thought he was trans. I tried to get him to understand he was making a mistake, or at least to think things over before doing anything rash, but he wouldn't listen to me. I don't know enough about his situation to know whether he's made any changes IRL, and it would be awkward to ask, but he still lists she/her pronouns on his Twitter bio. He came from a really shitty home and barely managed to get away from it, and we still keep in touch a bit, just not as much as we used to.

Another came as an absolute shock to me, considering how he'd told me he was asexual in the past and didn't really show any coombrain tendencies at all. We'd dropped off in contact over the years, and by the time I decided to try and reach out again, I'd found out he'd gone full troon, and everyone else was just accepting that as normal. A guy I'd known for over a decade, bam, trooned out. At this point, I don't even know how to approach him; I can't bring myself to call him by the name he goes by now, but I don't want to feed into his delusions either.

The latest is possibly the most painful. A regular in my friends group, he's been a pretty bad alcoholic for most of his life (and he's not that old), to the point that many of us worried about how much he was putting away on a weekly basis. I guess he's used that as a coping measure for something, because he'd mentioned being in therapy for a long time, though not for what. Then one day, out of the blue, he just announces to the group that he's a troon now, and he's gone wholeheartedly into the stereotype. Hates his voice, electrolysis for body hair, popping titty skittles, you name it. Can't even make jokes about troons without him getting buttmad. Just like the others, no build-up or anything, just a complete 180 from normalcy into troonery.

That last one is probably the most baffling considering we already had a troon in the group beforehand. Never in the best state of mind, he's mentioned childhood sexual trauma in his past and how that factored into his decision to troon out, an attempt to make himself undesirable to his abuser. He's never happy, always in some state of depression or anxiety, clearly not learning any healthy ways to cope with his trauma, though with his generally shitty home life, I honestly can't blame him. But one would think that, seeing how trooning out clearly did not help with his mental state, the other friend would think twice about going down that road. Alas, that isn't the case.

The worst part of all this is that I honestly have no idea how to get through the troon messaging. They're constantly being bombarded with affirmations by the troon cult, being told how stunning and brave they are, that they make excellent women and aren't making a huge mistake. But if I, someone who actually cares about their health and well-being, attempt to tell them the truth, even as gently as I can, I could end up completely blocked off and unable to talk to them again. And if they off themselves down the road, I'd be forced to wonder if there was something more I could have done.

I really wish I knew what to do. I'm so sick of seeing this happen over and over again.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I'm grateful that, as of yet at least, no one in my family and none of my real life friends have trooned out. But it hurts to have seen multiple online friends fall into the troon web over the years, often with no prelude. One day they're as normal as ever, and then the next it feels like a switch has flipped and they go whole-hog into troonery.

Spoiler: troon stories

One of them mentioned to me a few years ago that he thought he was trans. I tried to get him to understand he was making a mistake, or at least to think things over before doing anything rash, but he wouldn't listen to me. I don't know enough about his situation to know whether he's made any changes IRL, and it would be awkward to ask, but he still lists she/her pronouns on his Twitter bio. He came from a really shitty home and barely managed to get away from it, and we still keep in touch a bit, just not as much as we used to.

Another came as an absolute shock to me, considering how he'd told me he was asexual in the past and didn't really show any coombrain tendencies at all. We'd dropped off in contact over the years, and by the time I decided to try and reach out again, I'd found out he'd gone full troon, and everyone else was just accepting that as normal. A guy I'd known for over a decade, bam, trooned out. At this point, I don't even know how to approach him; I can't bring myself to call him by the name he goes by now, but I don't want to feed into his delusions either.

The latest is possibly the most painful. A regular in my friends group, he's been a pretty bad alcoholic for most of his life (and he's not that old), to the point that many of us worried about how much he was putting away on a weekly basis. I guess he's used that as a coping measure for something, because he'd mentioned being in therapy for a long time, though not for what. Then one day, out of the blue, he just announces to the group that he's a troon now, and he's gone wholeheartedly into the stereotype. Hates his voice, electrolysis for body hair, popping titty skittles, you name it. Can't even make jokes about troons without him getting buttmad. Just like the others, no build-up or anything, just a complete 180 from normalcy into troonery.

That last one is probably the most baffling considering we already had a troon in the group beforehand. Never in the best state of mind, he's mentioned childhood sexual trauma in his past and how that factored into his decision to troon out, an attempt to make himself undesirable to his abuser. He's never happy, always in some state of depression or anxiety, clearly not learning any healthy ways to cope with his trauma, though with his generally shitty home life, I honestly can't blame him. But one would think that, seeing how trooning out clearly did not help with his mental state, the other friend would think twice about going down that road. Alas, that isn't the case.

The worst part of all this is that I honestly have no idea how to get through the troon messaging. They're constantly being bombarded with affirmations by the troon cult, being told how stunning and brave they are, that they make excellent women and aren't making a huge mistake. But if I, someone who actually cares about their health and well-being, attempt to tell them the truth, even as gently as I can, I could end up completely blocked off and unable to talk to them again. And if they off themselves down the road, I'd be forced to wonder if there was something more I could have done.

I really wish I knew what to do. I'm so sick of seeing this happen over and over again.

Like with every other cult situation, all you can do is talk to them and ask if they're sure. Don't say they're making a mistake, ask them if they're sure, or if there's no chance they're making a mistake, or that they're succumbing to peer pressure, stuff like that. A favorite I've seen is "how many of your transgender friends are happy?", followed by "how many of them complain about being miserable?". Field the questions and let them answer. If they're so deep into it asking a bunch of leading questions won't get them there, you've done your best and hopefully they'll remember you if it ever comes time for them to leave the gendercult.

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

A dear family friend's thirteen year old (diagnosed spectrum, probably gay) daughter is "socially transitioning." Had dinner with them recently. The daughter looked miserable, pretty sure she was chest binding. The mother is clearly confused and overwhelmed, not a munchie type. It's just what people tell her she needs to do.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

This is not really on-topic but this is the only time this will ever be relevant. The creator of the ZZT spinoff GCS MegaZeux, Gregory Janson, also trooned out. Goes by Alexis now, went on to join Wizards of the Coast where they were eventually lead designer for one MTG set, Dragon's Maze, which apparently sucked but I don't know anything about the game.

GODDAMN IT!!!! Him too?!?! Fucking normalized mental illness bullshit!!!

No fucking wonder our community is, except for the valient Dr. Dos, essentially dead.

 

[Yezidi Fan Club]

A dear family friend's thirteen year old (diagnosed spectrum, probably gay) daughter is "socially transitioning." Had dinner with them recently. The daughter looked miserable, pretty sure she was chest binding. The mother is clearly confused and overwhelmed, not a munchie type. It's just what people tell her she needs to do.

I'm not a parent so anything I say is of dubious value.

I imagine that while someone is working hard to maintain a household, relationship with S/O, etc, it's hard to not only find the right approach, but to have spare energy to do so. If your friend is anything like my mother, she finds herself wondering in the back of her head whether or not she should intervene, lest she risk preventing her kid from becoming the person she wants to be or worry that it'll just create more enmity if the wrong approach is used.

I imagine the goal is to create a home life that is not only stable and supportive but is uplifting so that when a choice arises between a good, loving hearth and working to secure a better future and the siren song of psychotic, hedonistic stygians that her loyalty lies with the former.

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

Put it this way, the mother still refers to her daughter by her birth name and as a girl in private.

 

[Yezidi Fan Club]

Put it this way, the mother still refers to her daughter by her birth name and as a girl in private.

eh I say this with love, but please don't share specifics with me.

 

[RowboatGirlyman]

I looked that up and it doesn't even translate to anything.

It's a butchered version of ἡ ἀδελφή (he adelphe) or sister in Greek to make it sound French.

I'm grateful that, as of yet at least, no one in my family and none of my real life friends have trooned out. But it hurts to have seen multiple online friends fall into the troon web over the years, often with no prelude. One day they're as normal as ever, and then the next it feels like a switch has flipped and they go whole-hog into troonery.

Spoiler: troon stories

One of them mentioned to me a few years ago that he thought he was trans. I tried to get him to understand he was making a mistake, or at least to think things over before doing anything rash, but he wouldn't listen to me. I don't know enough about his situation to know whether he's made any changes IRL, and it would be awkward to ask, but he still lists she/her pronouns on his Twitter bio. He came from a really shitty home and barely managed to get away from it, and we still keep in touch a bit, just not as much as we used to.

Another came as an absolute shock to me, considering how he'd told me he was asexual in the past and didn't really show any coombrain tendencies at all. We'd dropped off in contact over the years, and by the time I decided to try and reach out again, I'd found out he'd gone full troon, and everyone else was just accepting that as normal. A guy I'd known for over a decade, bam, trooned out. At this point, I don't even know how to approach him; I can't bring myself to call him by the name he goes by now, but I don't want to feed into his delusions either.

The latest is possibly the most painful. A regular in my friends group, he's been a pretty bad alcoholic for most of his life (and he's not that old), to the point that many of us worried about how much he was putting away on a weekly basis. I guess he's used that as a coping measure for something, because he'd mentioned being in therapy for a long time, though not for what. Then one day, out of the blue, he just announces to the group that he's a troon now, and he's gone wholeheartedly into the stereotype. Hates his voice, electrolysis for body hair, popping titty skittles, you name it. Can't even make jokes about troons without him getting buttmad. Just like the others, no build-up or anything, just a complete 180 from normalcy into troonery.

That last one is probably the most baffling considering we already had a troon in the group beforehand. Never in the best state of mind, he's mentioned childhood sexual trauma in his past and how that factored into his decision to troon out, an attempt to make himself undesirable to his abuser. He's never happy, always in some state of depression or anxiety, clearly not learning any healthy ways to cope with his trauma, though with his generally shitty home life, I honestly can't blame him. But one would think that, seeing how trooning out clearly did not help with his mental state, the other friend would think twice about going down that road. Alas, that isn't the case.

The worst part of all this is that I honestly have no idea how to get through the troon messaging. They're constantly being bombarded with affirmations by the troon cult, being told how stunning and brave they are, that they make excellent women and aren't making a huge mistake. But if I, someone who actually cares about their health and well-being, attempt to tell them the truth, even as gently as I can, I could end up completely blocked off and unable to talk to them again. And if they off themselves down the road, I'd be forced to wonder if there was something more I could have done.

I really wish I knew what to do. I'm so sick of seeing this happen over and over again.

I'll second the others by cautioning against being direct and pressing with your view on things. Start out by asking questions like if he's sure that actually changing his body would help him, maybe point out how actually transitioning is generally pretty ineffective (Archive). You could also pretend to know very little about troonism and enter the conversation that way (if that's still feasible). Of course, someone truly indoctrinated may be well and truly lost so don't beat yourself up if you fail in the end.

 

[White-Kettle Shufflepunk]

eh I say this with love, but please don't share specifics with me.

My bad.