- Joined
- Aug 12, 2017
Eh I dunno I look at the first versions and immediately reminded of the webcomic Jack...
Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread
- Thread starter XtrmGamr719
- Start date
-
🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
I think it's also been diluted a fair amount by the involvement of other people, often from fandoms known for same-y characters. It looks more commercial now.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2016
I'm currently working my way through this thread and HB so I will try not to repeat what has already been covered. I do have one question regarding HH, which may be covered whenever that series officially starts: what is Charlie's motivation other than "it's the right thing to do"?
Perhaps it's just me but having Satan's child, who grew up in Hell, be a good-natured person without any further character establishment just feels like Vivzie screaming, "How's that for subversion?!" When it came to Hellboy and Raven, their moral compass was based on their upbringing that wasn't tied to their demonic heritage. The reason why Adam Sandler's character in Little Nicky was not evil unlike his brothers was because his mother was an angel.
Then again, audiences have not gotten more into Charlie's reasons since the series hasn't started and all they have go on is the pilot and whatever Vivzie reveals through social media. Perhaps it will be revealed that if Charlie can get demons who were once human redeemed, maybe fallen angels, including her father, can find redemption. While that concept is not original, I won't be surprised if it's Vivzie intentions with the series.
Perhaps it's just me but having Satan's child, who grew up in Hell, be a good-natured person without any further character establishment just feels like Vivzie screaming, "How's that for subversion?!" When it came to Hellboy and Raven, their moral compass was based on their upbringing that wasn't tied to their demonic heritage. The reason why Adam Sandler's character in Little Nicky was not evil unlike his brothers was because his mother was an angel.
Then again, audiences have not gotten more into Charlie's reasons since the series hasn't started and all they have go on is the pilot and whatever Vivzie reveals through social media. Perhaps it will be revealed that if Charlie can get demons who were once human redeemed, maybe fallen angels, including her father, can find redemption. While that concept is not original, I won't be surprised if it's Vivzie intentions with the series.
Last edited:
The initial idea I got from the pilot is that Charlie as the princess of hell actually loves her citizens, but that there are so many sinners coming to hell that annual purges need to happen to keep everything under control. So her solution is to try and redeem them so they can go to a better place AKA heaven rather than having her people be senselessly purged. How she got this way would have probably been revealed in the show.
The problem is that Viv has seemingly abandoned the premise that hell was created to punish sinners and confusingly has "natural born demons" instead of everyone being sinners based on what we see in Helluva boss. Which just makes hell edgy earth instead of a place to torment sinners.
Shit has gotten very convoluted and Viv seems to have completely lost focus and as a result the coherency of her world and characters is on the verge of breaking. I reserve the right to make a final judgement until HH comes out, but all signs have decidedly pointed towards the worse the more we see and hear at this point.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
Its the simpsons effect, you becoming the very thing you mocked
Maybe its a "Its so insane I cant help but respect it" type of situations. He clearly think its a fool's errand but he wants to see it.
Its like when someone on a motorcycle says he can jump the grand canyon. Its insanity but you want to see him try, even if its just to watch the inevitable failure, since you respect his sheer determination/stupidity.
I dont think they are wrong. But I guess its a sad necessity for a more mainstream audience.
Was she meant for something more action oriented at first? I really wonder what would be the backstory of the red arm. Assuming there was one at all and she just wasnt playing around with concepts.
Twitter.is.not.therapy
Twitter is where sanity goes to die
Given her age, you would think she would have learned that by now. Its ok to show that you are human but you also gotta maintain a level of composure if you intend on being in the public eye.
I already said that it all began when H.H became stuck in developtment hell (ironically so) and H.B became the "main course" meal instead of the side dish it was suppose to be.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2016
Well, I finally caught up with this thread along with HB and, oh boy, do I have some things to say. I will forewarn that I may be repeating what others have already said.
-I'm not sure if this was intentional, but Blitzo stalking Moxxie and Millie outside of work hours, as prominently seen in the pilot, was clever foreshadowing to the finale. They have a happy and healthy personal life while his is full of loneliness and misery.
-Again not sure if intentional, it seems the each of the imps' personalities may give an idea of what Ring of Hell they're from. Millie is from the Wrath Ring, which may explain her preference to hand-to-hand/edged weapons combat, why she goes into a blind rage when Moxxie is in danger, and why the Pain Games is a violent competition. Based on a photo that has Blitzo wearing a shirt referencing Mammon, Blitzo's father selling him to Paimon just to have his son steal valuables, Blitzo as a child having ambitions to run the greatest circus in Hell, and Blitzo wanting Stolas' Grimoire for his I.M.P business, it's safe to presume that Blitzo comes from the Greed Ring.
-Moxxie and Millie's wholesome marriage in the first season was a breath of fresh air given how heterosexual unions have been depicted in media for some time. While both characters have their flaws (more on that later), their devotion to one another in a place that encourages licentiousness, as seen in "Ozzie's", softens my jaded heart.
-Again not sure if intentional, it seems the each of the imps' personalities may give an idea of what Ring of Hell they're from. Millie is from the Wrath Ring, which may explain her preference to hand-to-hand/edged weapons combat, why she goes into a blind rage when Moxxie is in danger, and why the Pain Games is a violent competition. Based on a photo that has Blitzo wearing a shirt referencing Mammon, Blitzo's father selling him to Paimon just to have his son steal valuables, Blitzo as a child having ambitions to run the greatest circus in Hell, and Blitzo wanting Stolas' Grimoire for his I.M.P business, it's safe to presume that Blitzo comes from the Greed Ring.
-Moxxie and Millie's wholesome marriage in the first season was a breath of fresh air given how heterosexual unions have been depicted in media for some time. While both characters have their flaws (more on that later), their devotion to one another in a place that encourages licentiousness, as seen in "Ozzie's", softens my jaded heart.
-Unfortunately the one think that I absolutely in this series (M&M's marriage) may be no more if the latest episode is anything to go by. In what could barely be called a C plot, Moxxie is depicted as the typical idiot husband who purchases whatever music demo or piece of street art he came across until Millie puts her foot down. Perhaps it was just for that episode and later ones will go back to how it was in Season 1.
-Millie seems to be the only one left of the main cast that needs further character development. Yes, she is the brawn while Moxxie is the brains in their relationship but we have yet to see how they met and what Millie saw in Moxxie to be his wife.
-Moxxie as seen in the pilot is vastly different from the main series. He gets abused physically (or sexually in "Spring Broken") as a joke, admitted he lets Millie peg him because it turns him on, possible soy boy, gets swindled by the Loo Loo Land carnie, and doesn't act as the voice of reason to some Blitzo's ideas. While Moxxie is not very assertive like Blitzo, at least show some alpha energy. It seems any episode that moves his character in a positive direction (gaining some respect from Millie's parents and improving his relationship with Blitzo) is undone in the next one.
-The tonal shift when the show focused more on Blitzo and Stolas rather than focusing on what I.M.P does. And if the what the show's cast and crew have said before Season 2 premiered, it will be more serial drama than an episodic dark comedy. Whatever humor was in the three recent episodes was not very funny. The runtime has gone from an average 11 minutes to just over 20 minutes. The show may pull a RWBY and have later episodes reach an average of 30 minutes.
-Manipulating the audience to sympathize with certain characters even though they are demons despite some good qualities. Blitzo wants to a big-time Imp despite his social status and will do anything to get there (case in point, sleeping with Stolas to steal his Grimoire). Something that I haven't seen brought up is that in "Murder Family" Blitzo basically whispered to Moxxie that he would rape both Moxxie and Millie if the former screws up another assignment. It's played for laughs rather than problematic because the writing said so. While I am indifferent to Stolas' family drama, I certainly don't see him as totally innocent as the flashback episode appears to say his infatuating with Blitzo was a good thing and not a bad message to send.
-Millie seems to be the only one left of the main cast that needs further character development. Yes, she is the brawn while Moxxie is the brains in their relationship but we have yet to see how they met and what Millie saw in Moxxie to be his wife.
-Moxxie as seen in the pilot is vastly different from the main series. He gets abused physically (or sexually in "Spring Broken") as a joke, admitted he lets Millie peg him because it turns him on, possible soy boy, gets swindled by the Loo Loo Land carnie, and doesn't act as the voice of reason to some Blitzo's ideas. While Moxxie is not very assertive like Blitzo, at least show some alpha energy. It seems any episode that moves his character in a positive direction (gaining some respect from Millie's parents and improving his relationship with Blitzo) is undone in the next one.
-The tonal shift when the show focused more on Blitzo and Stolas rather than focusing on what I.M.P does. And if the what the show's cast and crew have said before Season 2 premiered, it will be more serial drama than an episodic dark comedy. Whatever humor was in the three recent episodes was not very funny. The runtime has gone from an average 11 minutes to just over 20 minutes. The show may pull a RWBY and have later episodes reach an average of 30 minutes.
-Manipulating the audience to sympathize with certain characters even though they are demons despite some good qualities. Blitzo wants to a big-time Imp despite his social status and will do anything to get there (case in point, sleeping with Stolas to steal his Grimoire). Something that I haven't seen brought up is that in "Murder Family" Blitzo basically whispered to Moxxie that he would rape both Moxxie and Millie if the former screws up another assignment. It's played for laughs rather than problematic because the writing said so. While I am indifferent to Stolas' family drama, I certainly don't see him as totally innocent as the flashback episode appears to say his infatuating with Blitzo was a good thing and not a bad message to send.
I want to talk about Sallie May. While Vivie and co. made a big deal out of the character being a troon Imp (and voiced by one), I asked myself, "Is it though?" Since the character has brief screentime, they had to show some indication Sallie May was born male despite having physical characteristics of a female (black hair, feminine voice, and being well-endowed). So the horns stayed the as they are for a male Imp (horizontal black and white stripes) instead of the prominently black horns with thin white stripes seen with females. Wouldn't it have been more progressive if Sallie May had all the characteristics of a female-born Imp only to reveal on social media the character is a MTF trans? Or would have that made fans uncomfortable if they fell for a trap? It just reminds of men who get breast implants, grow their hair, put on makeup, have a cock and balls, and claim they are women.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
Honestly, its just virtue signalling so prove to the woke collective you are "one of them" and thus they are less likely to cancel you (a foolish attempt in my opinion, they hate everything no matter what).
They will demand Sallie be a main character because, again, they arent satisfied.
The character was probably female but she saw an opportunity there and took it, especially since the woke has mixed feelings about her and her shows (some either love it or hate it for bizarrely similar reasons)
Its safer just not go that route and ignore these people, dont try to please them.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2022
Plus it wouldn't make sense for her to appear in the story again. Unless they visit Millie's family again, but I doubt that will happen since the direction the episodes are going show no hint of it.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2013
No episode before the new year, oh well.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2019
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2020
OK - the "Breaking Bad"/"future refused to change" ending would actually make for a pretty good story - which is why I'm 95% certain Vivienne won't do it. And they already said #3 is less likely. So that leaves #2, which ironically makes it seem more like your typical kids movie story with adult trappings - like the majority of "adult" animation. The more and more I think about the future prospects of Hazbin and HB, the less enthused I am about them. But hey, if nothing else, Vivz has done something all but a select few indie animators haven't: she actually achieved her dream without compromising her vision (even though, in this case, it would be really, really beneficial for her to do so). And that gets respect from me. A begrudging respect, but respect nonetheless.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2019
I think it was more a case of viv being up against the wall by the hate mobs at the time due to her comments about how hazbin was going to have gay, les,bi and even asexual characters, but no trans ones. Now her reason why that was the case was because viv isn't trans nor was anyone working for her (at the time anyways) so she felt she couldn't properly represent a group she had no connections with.
All the crowds heard however, was "There won't be any trans characters in my show." And that was enough to get the hoard to pounce like a pack of piranhas to a drop of blood. In order to avoid becoming the next jk Rowling she created Sallie may and said see see I'm not a term please still like me pleaseeee.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
That's almost the "teenage atheist" ending. I'm not sure I like that. Nor do I like the unqualified victory. I like the Nostradamus anon view of it being a mixed ending although that is a lazy-ass prediction: "either it will happen this way or it will happen another way and anyway no matter what happens my prediction will look smart in retrospect."
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
A problem with taking too long to start a show is that your audience will fucking grow up and move on to other things. By the time H.H comes out, people will be like "Oh yeah, that H.B spin off, right? I dont really care outside of dirty fanart of the spider"
And like always, its never enough. Dont try to please the chronically unhappy because they will make you just as miserable as they are because it loves company.
These people dont build and hate the act of creation, why you think they love to destroy traditions, statues and even unborn lives? They even hate their own creation but they fear death far too much to destroy themselves yet so they will take down what they can until they die.
And like always, its never enough. Dont try to please the chronically unhappy because they will make you just as miserable as they are because it loves company.
These people dont build and hate the act of creation, why you think they love to destroy traditions, statues and even unborn lives? They even hate their own creation but they fear death far too much to destroy themselves yet so they will take down what they can until they die.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2016
The second conclusion looks to be the most likely one. I'll also add that Charlie's approach to rehabilitating sinners leads to Heaven starting the Apocalypse. Only this time, Hell doesn't lose (as Al Pacino said in The Devil's Advocate, "But consider the source, son.") in a battle scene just like Avengers: Endgame and maybe the Helluva cast will be included.
Echoing @Chilson, the worldbuilding has gotten so convoluted that this "Hellaverse" looks like it will run into the same problems the MCU is now having with a shared universe. If the wiki is to be a reliable source then the Hazbin Hotel and the I.M.P building reside in the top-most level of Hell, the Pride Ring, and sinners are confined there. Yet Helluva Boss has currently not acknowledged the annual culling or that demons born in Hell, like Imps or Hellhounds, could also be at risk. Also, how is the political system in Hell laid out? Demons such as Alastor and Sir Pentious fight for control of Pentagram City yet Lucifer is Hell's king and Charlie is his sole heir. So do the royals like Lucifer, Charlie, and Stolas have no real power (like the current monarchies of England and Japan) and are just stand-ins for the elite that are either snobbish to the lower demon class (as seen with Stolas in "The Harvest Moon Festival) or show downright contempt (Paimon and Stella)? Another big question who's next in line after Charlie? Is Paimon or another demon royal that hasn't debuted? Octavia was revealed to be "precautionary heir", which possibly means Stolas was not Paimon's firstborn offspring. I know, I know, I am overanalyzing a series that is animated dark comedy musical about the residents of Hell.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
Helluva Boss is pretty good, it is a fit of irony that when Hazbin actually comes out it will be seen as a spinoff itself.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2021
Troons would've claimed she was transphobic either way, similar to how Hazbin was accused of being homophobic for having gay characters *gasp* in Hell. Canonically trans characters or not, they continually bastardize creator's works by claiming XYZ character is actually a troon.
Why bother appealing to a perpetually unpleasable group of people that aren't even the target audience of your show?
Weppers
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2018
Because she has been converted to the critical theory dogma and is compelled to offer acts of worship to it. Those people planting their flag on an existing character and declaring them trans is one such act of worship. Tear down anything that seems too normal and make it more transgressive or else you must be an evil person and we’ll all tear down you.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2019
You are putting more thought into this than Vizzie ever did. She just wanted a funny dark series about people that live in Hell and all this world building was very likely all secondary and probably being written on the fly.
Its so funny how these "religion is evil/fake" are the most likely to act like religious fanatics for their own contrarian beliefs that they treat as a religion in everything but name.
I recall a classic line from that Matt Mundane exposure stream where one of the participants told Matt that he wants to belong to a group of influential famous people who will never accept him anyways so he shouldnt bother trying to please them and play by their rules because it wont work.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2022
I swear if this is another episode where Moxxie learns the exact same lesson he did the last FUCKING three times...I won't be mad. Won't even be disappointed. Just meh.
Oh well...hopefully it will at least be funny. That was the whole reason why I wanted to watch this show in the first place.
Edit: Oh who am I kidding...with the way the last three episodes went, it probably won't be.