YABookgate

The fact that there’s a “Book Tok” section at the local bookstore, paired with the most hideous AI looking covered books, has caused my faith in modern literature to dwindle even lower than it already has.

Speaking of bookstores, finding literature on World War One is starting to get harder where I’m from. I had to wait three weeks for a copy of All Quiet on the Western Front because they simply stopped carrying them after it was removed from the high school’s required reading back in 2014 (it was replaced with some memoir written by a black woman in 1960s, according to my niece).

Anyone else here experiencing this?
In my part of the world thankfully classics are still incredibly popular and I am grateful for that. I've sometimes jokingly wondered if all the young women I see buying Jane Austen and such have been burnt by modern shitty romance books and want something that actually has something of worth to say that normal people can get behind (+ y'know, good writing). I have noticed an increase of terrible looking "message" books - your usual shit about how being a black woman in the western world is totes hard (ditto for gay people) and the eternal plague of booktok. It's funny, but I saw a tiktok earlier of people sharing their "worst-of-2022" books and they were ALL popular booktok regulars. It makes you think.

I will say, it's grim hearing about your experience getting All Quiet on the Western Front. It's pretty much always available here and people ask for Remarque fairly often, but to not have such an influencial piece of anti-war fiction at the forefront is concerning.
 
Speaking of bookstores, finding literature on World War One is starting to get harder where I’m from. I had to wait three weeks for a copy of All Quiet on the Western Front because they simply stopped carrying them after it was removed from the high school’s required reading back in 2014 (it was replaced with some memoir written by a black woman in 1960s, according to my niece).
Well, that isn't the "popular" war to write about. Probably used bookstores are your best bet, especially for non-fiction. I inherited a fuckton of history books about WWII from my dad, and I have no idea what to do with them. Most have been out of print for decades.
Where's the lie that Wattpad sucks? Self-published authors sucking is a 50/50 chance (maybe more like 90/10), but there's nothing good about Wattpad. How is that controversial outside of the Zoomer circles?
I clicked through Wattpad... it made FF.net seem upperclass. And for all the shit various people here give AO3, their tag search is amazing for finding stuff. Makes wading through stuff elsewhere seem even more like slog.
 
The biggest difficulty with online publishing is that every platform, be it Kindle, Wattpad, Vella, or any of the dozens of other sites or apps, is flooded with garbage. The other issue is that the audience for online fiction is biased overwhelmingly towards the genres of romance, litrpg or gamelit, badly-translated cultivation stories, and twee slice-of-life dreck like that fantasy coffee shop book that I can't remember the name of. Because that's what modern fantasy is these days.

That said, it can make a fair bit of money if you write to the algorithm and specific audience. Some online fiction writers make mega bank on Patreon for writing that'd probably get you thrown out of freshman English class. I think if publishing paid more attention to this trend, they'd decide that there was space in the market to give promising-but-rough debut writers a spot under their banner. Maybe start with a simple ebook run, a limited print run based on sales, and proceed like that - a similar path to how the Japanese manga industry works.

I don't think the industry has money to spare on that, however. And I especially don't think they'd want to have something that was just sales-focused as we know that the books that tend to get traditionally published for their artistic importance or checkbox ticks don't tend to sell well.

It wouldn't surprise me one day if some publishers start up hybrid imprints, honestly. Hybrid publishing is pretty much the new vanity publishing: you pay them money (a few thousand dollars from the contracts I've seen), they publish your book, but with the idea that it'll get editorial support, a cover designed, and space in online and offline stores. The idea is that more people can be published if the author agrees to off-set some of the costs (hence the term hybrid.) As you can imagine, however, there are way more cautionary tales than positive ones. But there are some cases where the model works.

But I think there are a lot of authors who'd be happy to pay a reputable publisher for a spot in their catalogue. But something like this would require the industry to modernize and I really don't think that's going to happen until the suits are dragged to it, kicking and screaming. There are some gems in the online and self-published markets, but they're so hard to find and I think the first platform to sort the wheat from the chaff will do well for themselves.
 
It wouldn't surprise me one day if some publishers start up hybrid imprints, honestly. Hybrid publishing is pretty much the new vanity publishing: you pay them money (a few thousand dollars from the contracts I've seen), they publish your book, but with the idea that it'll get editorial support, a cover designed, and space in online and offline stores.
I suspect the sneaky way of doing this with some of the Big 5 is the "no advance" contract. If the book lands, great, but if it doesn't there's no expectation to throw marketing money at it to make the title earn out!
 
The other issue is that the audience for online fiction is biased overwhelmingly towards the genres of romance, litrpg or gamelit, badly-translated cultivation stories, and twee slice-of-life dreck like that fantasy coffee shop book that I can't remember the name of. Because that's what modern fantasy is these days.
Romance I can understand, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the appeal of gamelit. The entire genre seems like it caters to autists who can't think of anything not involving vidya mechanics- is that who reads it? Or am I missing some crucial detail here?
 
Romance I can understand, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the appeal of gamelit. The entire genre seems like it caters to autists who can't think of anything not involving vidya mechanics- is that who reads it? Or am I missing some crucial detail here?
It overlaps with the portal fantasy genre, which weebs call isekai, which I think is a big part of the appeal. Otherwise, I think you're correct: the audience is people who've played so many video games that it's the only way they can conceive of plotting and conflict. What if you ended up in your favorite video game and you were a total badass and the hot elf princesses were down to bone? That kind of thing. It's also big in south-east Asia and the "it's not cartoons, mom, it's anime" effect can't be understated either.
 
It wouldn't surprise me one day if some publishers start up hybrid imprints, honestly. Hybrid publishing is pretty much the new vanity publishing: you pay them money (a few thousand dollars from the contracts I've seen), they publish your book, but with the idea that it'll get editorial support, a cover designed, and space in online and offline stores. The idea is that more people can be published if the author agrees to off-set some of the costs (hence the term hybrid.) As you can imagine, however, there are way more cautionary tales than positive ones. But there are some cases where the model works.
Probably won't happen, even if it turned out to be beneficial to both parties. It would be called racist or transphobic or more likely both and that would be that. (Funny how calling something "sexist" is almost an anachronism at this point.)

The other issue, I guess, is that some authors do apparently make decent money on Kindle Unlimited/being otherwise Amazon only. I don't see how any publisher would or maybe even could ever offer a 70% payout like Amazon does, within their pricing rules. Weird how Amazon is generous with ebook royalties and such scrooges about audiobooks.


On a completely different note, hadn't realized HarperCollins was still on strike. I'm a little surprised they didn't cave immediately and am very surprised management has dug in their heels for coming up on fifty days. I assume they've got five hundred resumes from candidates who can do the job better and cheaper they're waiting on firing up. Or maybe the publishing business is so bad they simply can't meet the striker demands.




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This article in Slate is hilarious. Novel Problems / https://archive.ph/5Uhsi The tl;dr - I support the strikers, you should too, but I'm doing and changing literally nothing and you shouldn't judge me.
 
Their demands are not outlandish and reflect the issues facing junior employees across publishing: They want the company’s minimum starting salary increased from $45,000 to $50,000. They want the publisher to address diversity issues at the company. They also want to ensure all eligible employees are in the union.

So the demands are
1) 5,000 dollar pay raise
2) Diversity Issues
3) Mass Unionization

Or maybe the publishing business is so bad they simply can't meet the striker demands.

Anti-white racism and forced association have to have a limit even for progressive types at some point. Only so many disabled black queer editors and assistant editors to go around. Only so many times can the average person endure a struggle session before they lose it.

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Perhaps we will see some hilarity tomorrow. Fifty days is quite sometime to not have a paycheck.
 
I published sequentially on Wattpad once. I got maybe 1 view per chapter. Compared to AO3 where per chapter I break 1k views easy.

I also tried out Kindle Vella, Amazon's Wattpad competitor to pretty much the same result. No visibility.

Wattpad is legitimately worse than the OG of fanfictions, ff.net, and that is REALLY saying something.
 
meaning... authors? but they say authors in their next insane rant post. so what do they mean by this?

So Twitter-fu provided context on this one: apparently by creators they meant "Booktok Creators" - Authors of Booktok popular-books were invited for an Author panel but not the people who technically made them famous.

Long time readers of this thread will know how most publisher "marketing" in now directed towards Instagram and TikTok creators - people with big follower lists, and who will market a book literally for the price of a hardback and a bar of soap. These people came sometimes have a bigger and more engaged audience reach than running a TV commercial these days, and literally cost pennies to the dollar.

It's beginning to dawn on social media reviewers that they are being used as "free labor", so we will certainly see more of this.


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The mad lads at Baen actually pulled off something brilliant.

They just snagged Christopher Ruocchio and the Sun Eater series from the flaming wreckage that used to be DAW.

Baen has been on a roll snapping up the best names from the rapid collapse of St. Martin's and DAW, but Christopher Ruocchio?

One of the most brilliant, based young authors now under a publisher that knows the man will be a rock star.

This is the publishing equivalent of the Hershel Walker trade.

Good on Baen (although they were probably had an advantage as it looks like CR published with them back in '21 and did some editorial work - it's all about relationships in the end)

It's a shame about DAW, despite what one feels about publishers, you do want them to succeed enough that they remain viable. Every loss hurts everyone.

DAW's looming demise probably precipitated that rant Patrick Rothfuss' editor had about 18 months ago in relation to him not finishing the Kingkiller series. The cash injection of Doors of Stone would have saved the publisher twice over, and she was probably already under the pump at the time.

Lost several people their employment during a pandemic, good job, Pat, good job. He could have fucking hired any writer to finish off the series for him (Hell, I'd do it for $100K).

I've noticed some publishers (including mine) have been very cagey about including "series" information on books now, launching them almost as standalones without "first in a trilogy". I finished mine because I'm not a lazy oversensitive retard, but the author who debuted the same time as me for 20X more money, never finished their series even though Publisher X pushed the everloving fuck out of it, and the author themselves. that's gotta hurt. (There's more I can say but the powerlevel is off the charts at the moment)

At the time I was annoyed that my book wasn't being advertised as a series from the beginning but now all their books are marketed like standalones, even though I know they are series books.

Anyway, they suck and I wouldn't have sex with them.
 
I know this isn't YA, but I had to express my annoyance somewhere about yet another coming turdblossom of a media adaptation or start drinking far too early in the day.

Stephen Colbert Boards Series Adaptation Of Roger Zelanzny’s Sci-Fi Novels ‘The Chronicles Of Amber’

The odd parts being:

  • IIRC the main characters were basically 1960s playas in a Fantasy setting. No fucking way can that translate to the Hollywood of today
  • Who is even familiar with the books at this point? As best I recall I only read the first five or so.
  • How in wide, wide world of sports is Stephen Colbert a fan of them?
  • Is it a Soros tier Bond villain's plan to run through every title in Appendix N and do a shitty media adaptation of it?
Now watch this by some miracle not completely suck. Unlikely but possible. Can't wait to see Corwin the tranny. 🙄

Edit: Stumbled across this gem of a Tweet. 🤮
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It's a shame about DAW, despite what one feels about publishers, you do want them to succeed enough that they remain viable. Every loss hurts everyone.

DAW's looming demise probably precipitated that rant Patrick Rothfuss' editor had about 18 months ago in relation to him not finishing the Kingkiller series. The cash injection of Doors of Stone would have saved the publisher twice over, and she was probably already under the pump at the time.
Is it confirmed DAW is going away? I know they were acquired, but are the new owners shutting it down? If so,it's a real shame. They published a lot of good books over the decades.
I know this isn't YA, but I had to express my annoyance somewhere about yet another coming turdblossom of a media adaptation or start drinking far too early in the day.

Stephen Colbert Boards Series Adaptation Of Roger Zelanzny’s Sci-Fi Novels ‘The Chronicles Of Amber’

The odd parts being:

  • IIRC the main characters were basically 1960s playas in a Fantasy setting. No fucking way can that translate to the Hollywood of today
  • Who is even familiar with the books at this point? As best I recall I only read the first five or so.
  • How in wide, wide world of sports is Stephen Colbert a fan of them?
  • Is it a Soros tier Bond villain's plan to run through every title in Appendix N and do a shitty media adaptation of it?
Now watch this by some miracle not completely suck. Unlikely but possible. Can't wait to see Corwin the tranny. 🙄
Colbert's a Tolkien fan so it's not unreasonable that he knows about Zelazny. He would have been the right age when the books were being published. He's still probably going to screw it up though.

Zelazny's family is bringing his backlist back to print, and George R.R Martin is producing a HBO series adaptation on his novel Roadmarks. I know Hollywood is looking for science fiction and fantasy series to adapt to recreate the Game if Thrones rating bonanza, so I guess Amber's as good a place to start as any.
 
The mad lads at Baen actually pulled off something brilliant.

They just snagged Christopher Ruocchio and the Sun Eater series from the flaming wreckage that used to be DAW.

Baen has been on a roll snapping up the best names from the rapid collapse of St. Martin's and DAW, but Christopher Ruocchio?

One of the most brilliant, based young authors now under a publisher that knows the man will be a rock star.

This is the publishing equivalent of the Hershel Walker trade.

Can someone with a little more expertise in the publishing world explain how this works? Wouldn't Mr. Ruocchio already have a contract with DAW. Thus being unable to transfer his Sun Eater series to another publisher and an obvious competitor at that? Or are DAW simply washing their hands of a money maker. (Lord knows I've spent too much money on Ruocchio already, myself.)
 
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Can someone with a little more expertise in the publishing world explain how this works? Wouldn't Mr. Ruocchio already have a contract with DAW. Thus being unable to transfer his Sun Eater series to another publisher and an obvious competitor at that? Or are DAW simply washing their hands of a money maker. (Lord knows I've spent too much money on Ruocchio already, myself.)
He had a contract for five books. Now that he's done five books for DAW, he's jumping ship from that fiasco and finishing the series with Baen. DAW will still have the rights to the first five books though.
 
Long time readers of this thread will know how most publisher "marketing" in now directed towards Instagram and TikTok creators - people with big follower lists, and who will market a book literally for the price of a hardback and a bar of soap.
Did they learn nothing from lindsay ellis (or that billy eyelash fat music girl) even though it resulted in a publishing executive literally crying to the nyt about social media followers meaning nothing for book sales?
 
Good on Baen (although they were probably had an advantage as it looks like CR published with them back in '21 and did some editorial work - it's all about relationships in the end)

It's a shame about DAW, despite what one feels about publishers, you do want them to succeed enough that they remain viable. Every loss hurts everyone.

DAW's looming demise probably precipitated that rant Patrick Rothfuss' editor had about 18 months ago in relation to him not finishing the Kingkiller series. The cash injection of Doors of Stone would have saved the publisher twice over, and she was probably already under the pump at the time.

Lost several people their employment during a pandemic, good job, Pat, good job. He could have fucking hired any writer to finish off the series for him (Hell, I'd do it for $100K).

I've noticed some publishers (including mine) have been very cagey about including "series" information on books now, launching them almost as standalones without "first in a trilogy". I finished mine because I'm not a lazy oversensitive retard, but the author who debuted the same time as me for 20X more money, never finished their series even though Publisher X pushed the everloving fuck out of it, and the author themselves. that's gotta hurt. (There's more I can say but the powerlevel is off the charts at the moment)

At the time I was annoyed that my book wasn't being advertised as a series from the beginning but now all their books are marketed like standalones, even though I know they are series books.

Anyway, they suck and I wouldn't have sex with them.

Ruocchio has that connection, but as a whole, Baen has been incredibly smart about picking up the cream of the crop from the collapsing DAW and St. Martins.

For example, they got Howard Andrew Jones and Scott Oden from St. Martins, and they are two of the best authors of sword and sorcery on the planet - and Baen's already done more to pump up Jones' upcoming Hanuvar series than St. Martins gave him in a decade.

Honestly, as much talent as the other publishers are throwing away, Baen's biggest issue is they aren't big enough to snap up all of them.

As for DAW, Rothfuss absolutely had a hand in screwing them. Not just for the book he owed them, but for the second trilogy they paid a massive advance for.

He cost them millions. To say nothing of overpaying for the likes of Seanan McGuire and Nnedimma Okorafor who, for all thier press and fashionability, don't sell terribly well.

Now the Chinese own them lock stock and barrel, and damn near every author is being cut once thier contracts expire.

So falls the house Donald A. Wollheim built.

Can someone with a little more expertise in the publishing world explain how this works? Wouldn't Mr. Ruocchio already have a contract with DAW. Thus being unable to transfer his Sun Eater series to another publisher and an obvious competitor at that? Or are DAW simply washing their hands of a money maker. (Lord knows I've spent too much money on Ruocchio already, myself.)
He had a contract for five books. Now that he's done five books for DAW, he's jumping ship from that fiasco and finishing the series with Baen. DAW will still have the rights to the first five books though.

The Baen press release and Ruocchio’s announcement video are actually pretty open about that.

DAW had a five book contract with Ruocchio, which with the publication of ASHES OF MAN in December was fufilled. I'm sure there were some negotiations and horse trading, though given even the Baen release mentions turmoil at DAW, I would put money on DAW cut him. Which, is insane, for reasons I will get into in a bit.

I would also notice that Baen signed him damn near to the minute after his contract with DAW was fulfilled. Which means they probably had been scouting him for a while.

As they should. As iffy as a publisher continuing a series can be, Ruocchio is damn near a perfect prospect for a publisher - he can consistently put out absolute doorstopers, knows how to promote himself, has a growing fanbase, gets rock solid reviews, and an absolutely insane sell through rate on his books - the hardcover for his first actually sold out entirely, which simply doesn't happen.

All that in spite of DAW's steadfast refusal to print second editions of his books despite brisk sales, and largely not doing any actual promotion of Ruocchio themselves.

He's the perfect package - toss in that he's not even 30 years old, and could potentially be putting out books for decades, and its absolutely insane that DAW didn't try to keep him... and why I suspect he will immediately become one of Baen's top tier authors.

He's essentially an Italian-American Roman Catholic Brandon Sanderson - he just needs to have his Wheel of Time moment that blows him up to the big leagues.

I hope he gets it. Both because I can only imagine what Ruocchio or Baen would do with that kind of windfall, and because he's proof positive that other publishers (mine included) obsession with desperately trying to make whatever diverse female LGBTQ flavor of the month be a thing will still get its teeth kicked in by the first stright white guy with some actual talent.

Did they learn nothing from lindsay ellis (or that billy eyelash fat music girl) even though it resulted in a publishing executive literally crying to the nyt about social media followers meaning nothing for book sales?

Ah, that's the difference.

Having influencers push books is cheap marketing that's occasionally effective.

Publishing books BY influencers is setting money on fire.
 
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