Diseased Sanctioned Suicide - "Kill yourself" but unironically with sodium nitrite. Higher death count than the Farms. Targeted by parents, legislators, and journalists looking to alter Section 230.

[HRT Heisenberg]

This is a great thread, I have been aware of this site but never had all the details so it's good to finally see something off the site talking about it with actual primary sources. I'm surprised it didn't have a thread sooner tbh.

Might be a little bit of an unpopular opinion but if either Kiwifarms or Sanctioned Suicide had to go I would say you might be able to make an argument that isn't completely retarded for SS being the one to go of the two (but still retarded to take down anything through the methods these autists use). That said the only real shitty thing I think the site does is with joyless fucks like FuneralCry spreading their retarded gospel to anyone who may be unsure about life on the forum. I've been stuck with people like that irl who I couldn't simply cut ties with straight away and it's enough to fuck with anyone's state of mind given enough time. But that is just one user and it seems that there are a lot of people that see real value in the site especially when everyone in their life and their country's medical system fails them completely and it's not like censoring the site will stop people really motivated to find suicide methods.

Funnily enough Tentacrul's video ended up in my subscription feed despite me not remembering who he was and when I first watched it I thought there could be some value in changing laws a bit to lessen the extreme edge cases a bit. But nope this thread changed my mind, thank you @Markass the Worst for your excellent breakdown as to how every bit of evidence he used was effectively fabricated to prove his desired points. Seeing these questions being brought up about SS instead of Kiwifarms has really solidified my opinion on these kinds of moral panics.

Unless an online community is literally centered around shit like terrorism or torture (thanks Cloudflare) the answer is to never just to shut down a community, instead publicly criticize the aspects that are objectively bad and in the most extreme case if something such as posting a very specific type of material is proven to be actually harmful but currently legal, look at avenues to set up new systems in place that makes these aspects better and work with the communities in good faith. Of course this will never happen and as others have said if we start removing stuff like 230 to make it easier just to remove things that a vocal minority don't like the entire Internet will collapse and turn into an internet run just by companies unlimited money to endlessly defend themselves in court. Then all of this stuff will be on the deep web and the only option for outsiders to change these sites will be to shut down the hidden service like it was the Silk Road. I know the direction these things are going and it's not good, so even if I personally don't like a site such as SS I will advocate for its survival the same way I would KF.

 

[Rent Tin]

This is a really great OP. If only journalists would actually spend the time to do this much research.

 

[August Levasseur]

Pushing mentally ill people to go to greater extremes to simply sate their curiosity and a desire for information will only have disastrous results. You will take a person who is in a crisis and give them reasons to be paranoid. A paranoid person in a crisis can be pushed to do far worse things than simply ending their own life.

But yes, go ahead. Let's push suicidal people towards the darknet.

The suicide forums won't disappear if they're banned. They'll simply move deeper. People will find a new place to congregate and will be hiding their identity and their activity in the process.

But sure, fuck it. Ban it all and watch how well that works out. It will get worse.

This is a retarded line. Nobody cares about the people with 15k posts moaning about how awful their lives are, they care about the people like the woman mentioned in the OP who are going through a dark time in their lives, stumble across the forum, make 10 posts and then end it all. Pushing the forum more underground is exactly the point, so that people are less likely to stumble across it and have the means to make a spontaneous and irreversible decision.

 

[InFO Digger]

This is a retarded line. Nobody cares about the people with 15k posts moaning about how awful their lives are, they care about the people like the woman mentioned in the OP who are going through a dark time in their lives, stumble across the forum, make 10 posts and then end it all. Pushing the forum more underground is exactly the point, so that people are less likely to stumble across it and have the means to make a spontaneous and irreversible decision.

If you genuinely think anyone desperately suicidal, no matter the age cannot figure out a method to try and kill themselves with whatever is available then you're the retarded one

 

[OrangeJuliusEvola]

I've known people like that FuneralCry user in real life. They'll live to 92, spreading misery and despair with every word and step they take. People will duck down alleyways and into shops to avoid them when they see them coming.
Have no doubt, they'll never off themselves, they conversely find joy in being like this.

I bet that fucker isn't even suicidal. They strike me as a tourist, coming to gawk at people who have the balls to do what they don't have in themselves to even fake doing. If anything, by being such a prolific poster yet unbearable faggot, they're probably turning people off killing themselves. "Jesus Christ, do I come off like this dude to people around me? Maybe I should live, just to spite his annoying ass."

Honestly, the best tonic for keeping the black dog at bay isn't the love of family and friends, beautiful sunsets, or threats of some theological consequence it's "Fuck it, we'll just see where this bullshit goes."

 

[Space Police]

I, like many others in this thread, have mixed feelings about this website and the people involved. The OP says that the anti-SS parents are "MATI", but I believe their reactions are absolutely justified given the tragedy they've all had to face. I think calling them MATI / A-Logs is pretty tasteless -- they aren't comparing a fat, Sonic-obsessed manchild to a war criminal; they've experienced a true tragedy that may not have occurred had SS not existed. You also can't compare these parents to Keffals, Dong-Gone, and co. because they aren't looking to torch evidence of their consent accidents, troonshining operations, and grooming Discords -- they're grieving and they want to prevent this tragedy from happening to other parents. Honestly, if I were in these parents' position, I'd be advocating for a squeaky-clean, highly-censored corporate internet and the repeal of Section 230 too if I thought that it would bring justice to a site that had a hand in taking away my child.

I do think sites like SS should be taken down because arguably they're imminent threats to human life (proudly protected by Cloudflare!), but repealing Section 230 isn't the way to do it, as others have said in the thread. That will be incredibly disastrous for the free internet and the state of public discourse. I think that we need to further examine the suicides that are connected to SS and see how many are directly connected to the website and how much content on that site is actually illegal, and the case shouldn't be touched by woke activists, lying journoscum, and trannies who will do anything to take away free speech or have a #DropKiwiFarms-style campaign like the one that mother has against Section 230.

 

[GenociderSyo]

Gonna see if I can track it down there was a documentary some years ago where this site was mentioned on assisted suicide and how much people on the site could help before it broke the law on assisting suicide.

 

[Apochrypha]

Glad I didn't know this existed when I was at my lowest, but honestly I don't think it should go away. If anything it should be used as an argument against suicide. Although I don't blame people for wanting it down.

 

[GenociderSyo]

Well the documentary is no longer on youtube it was Louis Theroux's Choosing Death.

 

[AnOminous]

I do think sites like SS should be taken down because arguably they're imminent threats to human life (proudly protected by Cloudflare!), but repealing Section 230 isn't the way to do it, as others have said in the thread.

I don't. I think the very few people there who actively try to induce suicide should be prosecuted if they actually break a constitutional law. As it is, what they're doing is largely entirely legal. It is not illegal to abstractly advocate suicide. It is not illegal to discuss suicide methods. It is not illegal to discuss suicidal feelings with others.

Sites that are not doing anything illegal shouldn't be shut down because people don't like them based on vague bullshit like "imminent threat to human life" when there is no such thing. Clownflare claimed we posed an "imminent thread to human life" because some asshole in Ireland who has absolutely nothing to do with us made threats against some lying ass child molesting troon.

 

[Humbert Humbert]

Excellent work, @Markass the Worst! This thread encompasses many topics that I look forward to reading about.

 

[Cyberpunk Panatela]

There is a USENET group called alt.suicide.methods which has existed since the 1980s (alt.suicide.holiday was a similar group - some ISPs blocked a.s.m. from their USENET feed so that one was created for ban evasion).

The owners of Sanctioned Suicide just turned that concept into a website. The kind of activity there is very similar as well.

There were a couple of moral panics about those two newsgroups, often when someone got it right and the mass media wankers all pretended to be "shocked" that you could just put that sort of information into the public domain.

Killing yourself is not nuclear physics. Any dumbass can work out how to do it - but if he screws up and suffers permanent injury he will be a burden on society for the rest of his life. Better he educates himself so as not to fail.

If there were no demand for this kind of "service", there would be no traffic to such a site.

Anyone who argues against Section 230 safe harbor on Twitter or Facebook is either a special kind of retarded (or a government agent trying to drum up support for censorship). Any kind of social media's very existence is completely dependent on safe harbor.

Journalists should rather do something more useful and field test the various methods discussed on Sanctioned Suicide so that concrete data on efficacy can be collected.

 

[AnOminous]

There is a USENET group called alt.suicide.methods which has existed since the 1980s (alt.suicide.holiday was a similar group - some ISPs blocked a.s.m. from their USENET feed so that one was created for ban evasion).

It was actually created to discuss suicide around the holidays but since there was not really much to say about that (and it is not actually true), it was taken over by refugees from the other group and became the primary suicide advocacy forum on the Internet. You can still find the ASH methods file floating around here and there, and it's been available since the '90s, for instance here's one. I wouldn't recommend it as a reliable source although it has a bibliography of better sources.

ASH is also, I believe, the source of the "catch the bus" meme that SS still uses, though that might go all the way back to ASM.

While it had a stronger ethic of not actively encouraging suicide than I see on SS, it too had its own controversies, like the case of Suzy Gonzales.

 

[Mortin Shart]

I didn't even have to check, I knew a tranny was the site admin. Can I get peep at that early life?

 

[Mr Bubbless]

Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if social tensions weren't so high and life wasn't so shitty. The new generation are all depressed and suicidal because it's impossible to survive in today's world, prices are skyrocketing, there's no sense of community, no religion or purpose. This is what happens when nihilism takes over instead of religion or something that gives people purpose to live. I don't blame people for not wanting to live in the modern world.

 

[Markass the Worst]

I think that we need to further examine the suicides that are connected to SS and see how many are directly connected to the website and how much content on that site is actually illegal, and the case shouldn't be touched by woke activists, lying journoscum, and trannies who will do anything to take away free speech or have a #DropKiwiFarms-style campaign like the one that mother has against Section 230.

In that case, there's really only two cases that can be corroborated independently of journalists (and activists and trannies, but they say the same thing as journos): Kakabushi / Shawn Shatto and System64 / Matteo.

Shawn at the very least has been claimed to have been helped by the forum users through the 3-day regimen, but I didn't spend much effort in tracking down the thread this took place in. (Apparently she messed up one part but someone told her it didn't matter much.)

Matteo seemed to have been more of a drive-by poster, with less than 10 posts, only a few of which was planning, several months before he did it. A poster claimed he posted that he was suicidal since he was 10 years old (and wanted either train, electrocution, or drowning IIRC). I don't have archives of this at the moment, but given that this means he was suicidal for over 7 years, his problems sound extremely deep-rooted and I'm not sure what the site could have done to help. Also, given that his method was extremely simple and required basically no assistance from anyone (train decapitation), I'm not sure the site was culpable in any way besides inaction.

I can see the site banning actively assisting someone in killing themselves, but I'm not sure about non-interactive, passive instructions (after all, other sites like Lost All Hope exist that provide instructions). And then there's cases like Matteo's which require no assistance and no instructions. I can believe that without SS, Shawn would probably be alive today (or at least have lived longer), but Matteo would have just done it on his own. Then you get disingenuous microcelebrities like Tantacrul who allege they encouraged him to do it (they did not; encouragement on SS is like cowtipping on KF, not the point of the site and explicitly prohibited).

Really though, the main problem at the end of the day is that we just simply don't know what their problems were. It could've been anything from loss of a job, marriage, pet, family member or hell it could've been as bad as Clayton Schwartz. Hell we don't even know what Byuu's deal was (besides guesses about being isolated in a foreign country and doing DIY HRT) and he didn't even kill himself. And it's not like anyone can force them to open up if they don't want to,

It occurs to me that a lot of the reasons people kill themselves are just general societal problems and assuming that everyone who seriously contemplates suicide is simply mistaken or in a moment of psychosis is just wrong. Probably the best way to reduce the suicide rate is to not have, say, pandemic lockdowns, or destruction of family structures, or trooning out, or tons of other things wrong with society at the moment.

Maybe this wouldn't be an issue if social tensions weren't so high and life wasn't so shitty. The new generation are all depressed and suicidal because it's impossible to survive in today's world, prices are skyrocketing, there's no sense of community, no religion or purpose. This is what happens when nihilism takes over instead of religion or something that gives people purpose to live.

I just came to the same conclusion as you did while writing my post.

 

[F13 Key]

Informative OP. Mixed feelings about Sanctioned Suicide, because I know a couple of people who could be vulnerable to it (and even more when they were teens) but I think it's just a symptom of society failing its members. I don't necessarily think it should be taken down, nor that Section 230 should be scrapped for one (legal) website. No one said free speech would be all rainbows and lollipops.

Some of the users on there are pretty ghoulish. FuneralCry seems like a suicide-baiting self-absorbed LiveJournal user with their 17,751 overly-long flowery posts about the meaninglessness of life and how they want to be dead. FC registered in September 2020. They've averaged more than 20 posts a day there. Still alive though. Here's FC saying that anyone with access to N (nitrogen?) who chooses not to unalive themselves is insane and that there are no disadvantages to being dead.

View attachment 4319350
Archive.

People like this get off on feeling like they have some form of involvement in other people's lives and suffering. I don't really have a strong opinion on the site's content and purpose either way, I can see how family of people who necked themselves would be angry about it, but people like this are truly nauseating to me. 17k posts in two years tells me this isn't someone looking for support or just being helpful, their online existence surrounds this place and it's giving them some sort of personal satisfaction feeling like they have influence over whether others there live or die.

I think if you call a suicide hotline, you're someone who on some level wants to be talked out of it, and that's what a suicide hotline is for. People who truly want to off themselves often just go and do it without giving people any warning aside from some of them having been depressed or distraught for a while beforehand.

But there's a taboo grey area between just going and killing yourself, and seeking to be talked out of it. It's an area that almost nobody is usually willing to tread into, because if you're there, most people will view you as encouraging someone to go through with it if you're not trying to talk them out of it. I think some people aren't right at that point where they want to do it, but don't want to be talked out of it either, they just want to be able to freely talk about their feelings on it or plans surrounding it without being judged or patronized. Maybe it's comforting to have people willing to listen to you and discuss it with you. Whether that comfort makes it easier to go through with CTB or easier to be talked out of it is probably where the debate over it would have to be.

But either way that ethical debate is separate from the importance of Section 230. Laws aren't about emotion, they exist as an antithesis to emotion guiding societal outcomes. 230 prevents people who are angry about content posted online from being who decides what gets to be online and not, especially in a case like this where it's a site that elicits such an emotional response from people. You have to support the existence of a site like this if you support 230, no matter how much you might find its content upsetting.

 

[HRT Heisenberg]

17k posts in two years tells me this isn't someone looking for support or just being helpful, their online existence surrounds this place and it's giving them some sort of personal satisfaction feeling like they have influence over whether others there live or die.

I know I touched on this before but this is really weird to me and the only part where I think there was some truth as to what Tantacrul said about this person. Who goes onto a website about suicide to make 17k posts in the span of two years without CTB'ing themselves so to speak. My only guess is someone who as you said gets some sort of kick out of it and/or someone who is lolcow levels of deranged. Either way I wouldn't trust this person if I wanted to be talked out of suicide and I think it'd be a good idea if we keep this person in mind going forward in this thread.

 

[Dumb Bitch Smoothie]

This is a retarded line. Nobody cares about the people with 15k posts moaning about how awful their lives are, they care about the people like the woman mentioned in the OP who are going through a dark time in their lives, stumble across the forum, make 10 posts and then end it all. Pushing the forum more underground is exactly the point, so that people are less likely to stumble across it and have the means to make a spontaneous and irreversible decision.

If a person only takes 10 posts to an hero, they would've done it anyway. The forum access expedited the process. People like that are looking for an out and they will dig as deep as necessary to find it. But if they're already digging deep in a state of wanting to give up, they will inevitably stumble across other things in the process. Sending them to a place that isn't regulated means they can go find all the edgelord "darknet" sites that make our dear Kiwifarms look like Sesame Street in comparison to the shit they discuss.

Try it for yourself, pop open TOR and see what you can find using a search engine of choice and typing in queries regarding death and suicide.

You really wanna send people who are already in distress to that?

 

[GET!]

I've known people like that FuneralCry user in real life. They'll live to 92, spreading misery and despair with every word and step they take. People will duck down alleyways and into shops to avoid them when they see them coming.
Have no doubt, they'll never off themselves, they conversely find joy in being like this.

I gave my life to my children on a silver platter!