Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Elämällä on väliä]

refurbishing old ass T-72s

Now they are cleaning T-54 and T-55.

 

[Ghostse]

Yeah, the vatniggers said the T-62's were going to be used by DPR and LPR separatist. They would only be used in the rear. It was just all cope. T-62's were found in the frontlines. There is proof of wrecked and captured T-62's. The Russians haven't had a tank in service that needed a loader for decades. Everything from the late 60's used an autoloader. I think the T-64 even had an autoloader. The Russians have to train people how to load a tanks main gun again.

I see the Vatniggers are taking Russia's 1500 tanks per year at face value and proof Russia was already on a war footing and ready to switch their economy based on sanctions. So ready they are provably deploying stock T-62s to the front.

Seriously I don't know how you can read the reports from either MOD and think it has more than passing relation to reality.

(and correct about the Autoloader)

Even if the 25mm damages a track that's still good. A tank sitting still is pretty much dead.

In the war at this stage, a mobility kill isn't a kill most times - you have exceptions like Kremmlina, but most of the action has been both forces AFVs operate inside controlled territory where you can get recovery vehicles in. In the early part of the war and during Kharkiv, the front was moving such that for Russia an immobile tank was a lost tank. But the majority of the time until you get a T-72 to do a Pringles impression, it'll probably be getting patched up and back in action in a couple weeks if not quicker.

 

[CuzinEd]

I see the Vatniggers are taking Russia's 1500 tanks per year at face value and proof Russia was already on a war footing and ready to switch their economy based on sanctions. So ready they are provably deploying stock T-62s to the front.

Seriously I don't know how you can read the reports from either MOD and think it has more than passing relation to reality.

(and correct about the Autoloader)


In the war at this stage, a mobility kill isn't a kill most times - you have exceptions like Kremmlina, but most of the action has been both forces AFVs operate inside controlled territory where you can get recovery vehicles in. In the early part of the war and during Kharkiv, the front was moving such that for Russia an immobile tank was a lost tank. But the majority of the time until you get a T-72 to do a Pringles impression, it'll probably be getting patched up and back in action in a couple weeks if not quicker.

Vatniggers take everything the Russians say as fact. Especially Russian media. When they start spamming links to stories from RT TASS Pravda and Sputnik there is some serious coping going on. The distrust of Western media is understandable. But I am not about to trust other countries media either. Especially the Russian media with this situation. The Russians have a real mess on their hands and their media is not going to tell you the truth either. Given how Russia operates and handles free speech they can't be trusted. No one was ever arrested in the US for being against the wars in in Afghanistan and Iraq and being publicly vocal about it. Can't say the same for Russia.

They patch the tank up and send it back out to get wrecked most likely. Ukraine is going to look like Afghanistan with burned out Russian tanks everywhere. It will give people who like to build tank models and do them in a wrecked state a lot of pictures to use as refence.

 

[Uranus Pink]

@Jewthulhu Regarding the M1A1s Abrams, crew survivability is paramount above all else. So as long as their crews survived the Abrams getting rekt, it have done its job.

 

[MG-34]

Vatniggers take everything the Russians say as fact. Especially Russian media. When they start spamming links to stories from RT TASS Pravda and Sputnik there is some serious coping going on. The distrust of Western media is understandable. But I am not about to trust other countries media either. Especially the Russian media with this situation. The Russians have a real mess on their hands and their media is not going to tell you the truth either. Given how Russia operates and handles free speech they can't be trusted. No one was ever arrested in the US for being against the wars in in Afghanistan and Iraq and being publicly vocal about it. Can't say the same for Russia.

They patch the tank up and send it back out to get wrecked most likely. Ukraine is going to look like Afghanistan with burned out Russian tanks everywhere. It will give people who like to build tank models and do them in a wrecked state a lot of pictures to use as refence.

It is very interesting that vantniggers and Russian wannabes think Russian media and politics are incapable of lying. 1500 new tanks annually? I'm convinced these retards would be racing to eat Medvedev's shit if he said it cures cancer.

 

[YarrBlueballs]

In the war at this stage, a mobility kill isn't a kill most times

How many T-whatevers are being cannibalized for parts however? There's only so many times you can steal some other tank battalion's parts before there's no more parts to go around.

 

[MS Paint Gigachad]

It is very interesting that vantniggers and Russian wannabes think Russian media and politics are incapable of lying.

Applies to any "X-Enslavement Syndrome" group of people, really, these guys just happen to be "Russia-Enslavement Syndrome". And it applies to stuff other than lying, like "being motivated by profit" or "flip-flopping".

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

to be fair that one is pretty demonstrably true (just look at Saudi Arabia in general or any one of the arab Israeli wars) but it doesn't protect Russian equipment from criticism either

Arabs: Use Soviet shit against Western shit - take huge losses
Russians: Use Soviet shit against Soviet shit - take huge losses
Ukrainians: Use Soviet shit against Soviet shit - take moderately-high losses and beg the West for Western shit

@CuzinEd https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ukrai...ussian-invasion.150025/page-120#post-15674693
Yeah, the vatniggers said the T-62's were going to be used by DPR and LPR separatist. They would only be used in the rear. It was just all cope. T-62's were found in the frontlines. There is proof of wrecked and captured T-62's.

To add insult to vatnig injury, I know at least one of those T-62s was captured in the retaking of Kherson, the invincible Russian city that will never fall to Ukrainian hands

 

[CuzinEd]

It is very interesting that vantniggers and Russian wannabes think Russian media and politics are incapable of lying. 1500 new tanks annually? I'm convinced these retards would be racing to eat Medvedev's shit if he said it cures cancer.

It's because they let their dislike of modern Western society turn them into retards. They just listen to whoever and whatever is telling them what they want to hear. Kind of like other groups. If you tell them the stupid shit they want to hear they will listen. It's how people make money with circle jerk grifts online. Tell people what they want to hear and they will give you money. Stroke their mental cocks and they will give you money. The distrust of Western media has gotten to them so much it has turned them into drooling retards that think everything that isn't Western media is right. You often hear vatniggers accusing people of pushing state department narratives. There is a bit Boomer tier schizo conspiritardism in there as well.

The Russians can't afford to build anything. Even if they did some of their stuff was using Western made components and they can't get them anymore. The Russians won't be producing 1,500 of anything especially not annually. The stuff they sent into Ukraine was stuff from back when Russia was known as the Soviet Union. It was their Soviet inheritance and Putin blew it all in Ukraine. Their claims of having 10,000 tanks was always a lie. What matters is the number of tanks they have operational. It's nowhere near 10,000.

 

[Ghostse]

Vatniggers take everything the Russians say as fact. Especially Russian media. When they start spamming links to stories from RT TASS Pravda and Sputnik there is some serious coping going on. The distrust of Western media is understandable. But I am not about to trust other countries media either. Especially the Russian media with this situation. The Russians have a real mess on their hands and their media is not going to tell you the truth either. Given how Russia operates and handles free speech they can't be trusted. No one was ever arrested in the US for being against the wars in in Afghanistan and Iraq and being publicly vocal about it. Can't say the same for Russia.

They patch the tank up and send it back out to get wrecked most likely. Ukraine is going to look like Afghanistan with burned out Russian tanks everywhere. It will give people who like to build tank models and do them in a wrecked state a lot of pictures to use as refence.

My take, is that while the western Lugenpresse needs to be taken with a grain of salt, there's a kernel of truth to the lie: i.e. "100,000 DEAD RUSSIANS THIS WEEK" is click-bait headline from a drooling liberal arts graduate based off a War Office memo they didn't read all the way through that said that in the past week Russia is believed to have surpassed 100,000 casualties (wounded + dead). If you dig, you get the actual story.

Vs. The Russian mouth pieces where they publish whatever baseless lies the Russian propaganda arm tells them to, with zero critical thinking. "RUSSIA WILL MAKE 1500 TANKS THIS YEAR" and when you dig you just find Putin making some numbers up to 'pwn' the west - complete fiction.

I don't fully trust either, but its the difference between saying you didn't do your homework because someone stole your backpack and saying you didn't do your homework because Aliens abducted you and raped you with a butter knife.

@Jewthulhu Regarding the M1A1s Abrams, crew survivability is paramount above all else. So as long as their crews survived the Abrams getting rekt, it have done its job.

I think I mentioned this before but I'll mention it again: Crew survivability cannot be overstated.

In the early part of the Pacific Theater in WWII, the US airwings were getting wrecked by the japanese. The F6F Hellcat was pretty well outclassed by the Zero and Japanese aircrews were veterans with lots of experience in China. But as the war went on, the Hellcat ratio starts climbing. And a good part of that reason was Hellcats & other US fighters had armored cockpits - this meant losing a dogfight didn't mean the end of your service. The Zero, on the other hand, tended to explode when hit due to the fueltanks not being self-sealing, meaning that after two years, Japan's pilot base had been devastated and most of their experienced pilots killed while American fighters were manned by vets who were passing their experience along to new pilots.

How many T-whatevers are being cannibalized for parts however? There's only so many times you can steal some other tank battalion's parts before there's no more parts to go around.

I'm not familiar enough with tanks salvage (in general) to know how much you can expect to get from a hull, but I would presume that even a Pringles'd T-72 would have some useable parts you could pull from the engine.
Also remember that has been pointed out, there hasn't been a lot of engine development since what they were given by the US in WWII. You can probably grab a boneyard T-62 and get most of the engine parts your T-90M will need - even the ones that won't start can probably be raided for parts for other tanks.

But unless a Bradley is very lucky with the 25mm and hits the ammo storage (much easier done to the T-55 & T-62) it'll frag the crew but you just need to weld a patch over the speed holes, hose out the old crew, and tank is back in business.
Or hell, don't weld in patches.
"See comrade? This is T-55C. It is called C because of all the extra observation holes that have been installed in the turret. You have improved visibility, now go crush american pigdogs."

Its also easier for Russia to make & ship parts (as long as there is nothing electronic). I'll believe that Russia can keep their tank fleet operational with their manufacturing capacity. It hink the bigger problem is that eventually those engines will need overhauls, and you need trained mechanics + special facilities to do that.

During the Yom Kippur war, Israel was hosing out shermans and centurions and sending them right back out. In Vietnam, M60 crews got concussions from the constant RPG fire they took in Hue, but the tanks were barely scratched.

 

[Racist Trash]

bolts ERA bracket to T-62, doesn't attach ERA, "Tank Production increased comrade!"

Russia clearly works off warthunder logic where stupid little nubbly bits can deflect whole rounds so those bolts probably add like 10km of armor.

 

[SBG]

It is very interesting that vantniggers and Russian wannabes think Russian media and politics are incapable of lying. 1500 new tanks annually? I'm convinced these retards would be racing to eat Medvedev's shit if he said it cures cancer.

I find it goofy how they'll exaggerate Russia's ability to make weapons while pretending the US doesn't have insane weapons production capabilities due to how much the US has spent on defense for decades. There are people imagining the US is outmatched in weapons of all things.

 

[tulskij_tochnyj]

If Russia is indeed preparing to put T-55s into combat, it strongly suggests they think the hohols are gonna be attacking

T-55s out in the open on the move would get slaughtered, they'd do better in prepared positions they can move in cover from one position to another as needed

T-55s share a lot of parts (tracks, transmission and engine parts) with 62s and can be used for repairs. New parts for these tanks aren't produced anymore. Rubber/plastic parts, interestingly, are 3d-printed. Storage facilities do not have means to disassemble tanks, so they should be transported to repair factories first.
From the schizo perspective, 55s and 62s are the only tanks still carrying neutron protection. NUKES WHEN?

Ryan McBeth put out his speculation and he thinks they're likely going to use the T-55s as mobile artillery. He believes they'll be used to fill in for regular Russian arty while the real stuff gets sent back to have their barrels replaced.

As an armament for assault SPGs, 100mm rifled cannon is unironically better than 115mm smoothbore that T-62 has.

 

[MG-34]

I find it goofy how they'll exaggerate Russia's ability to make weapons while pretending the US doesn't have insane weapons production capabilities due to how much the US has spent on defense for decades. There are people imagining the US is outmatched in weapons of all things.

It's pretty funny. Companies like Airtronic even make slavshit like the RPG-7 domestically and have been getting shipped hand over fist to Ukraine. Our MIC is so efficient we can even produce Russian weapons reliably. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the larger companies like General Dynamics or Lake City are tooling up to make simple5.45 ammo and Grad rockets.

 

[Random Internet Person]

@Jewthulhu Regarding the M1A1s Abrams, crew survivability is paramount above all else. So as long as their crews survived the Abrams getting rekt, it have done its job.

Just hope they have a good bailout plan.

 

[Uranus Pink]

@Ghostse You got the wrong fighter as the Hellcat like the F4U Corsair was outright better than the Zero. Only at the time current US Navy fighter the Zero was better than was the Brewster Buffalo. And even it could out fight the Zeros once USN pilots stopped trying to dogfight to the Japanese strengths and adopted the Thatch Weave amongst other tactics.

M2 Bradley are armed with 25mm cannons not 20mm cannons as they been becoming increasingly obsolescent.

 

[Useful_Mistake]

All possible perspectives on the recent allegations.

U.S. veteran who shared his Ukraine experience accused of being fraud

James Vasquez was known for sharing footage from the frontline in Ukraine with his large social media following.

www.newsweek.com

U.S. Veteran Who Shared His Ukraine Experience Accused of Being Fraud | Ghostarchive

ghostarchive.org

US veteran fighting in Ukraine 'exposed as fraud' over claims he joined ZSU army

Former US Army staff sergeant James Vasquez, 47, went to Ukraine on two separate occasions to fight against Vladimir Putin's forces after "collecting donations from liberal wine moms"

www.dailystar.co.uk

US veteran fighting in Ukraine 'exposed as fraud' over claims he join…

archived 24 Mar 2023 01:26:11 UTC

archive.ph

STOLEN VALOR: Top Ukraine ‘volunteer’ soldier revealed to be fraud, heavily promoted by Adam Kinzinger, Malcolm Nance

The story of Vasquez joining the Ukrainian Army turned out to be fake.

thepostmillennial.com

STOLEN VALOR: Top Ukraine 'volunteer' soldier revealed to be fraud, h…

archived 23 Mar 2023 06:37:30 UTC

archive.md

 

[tulskij_tochnyj]

"In her post, she shared a receipt that she claimed was "photo of the hotel receipt where he stayed in Lviv at the nicest hotel while his 'best friend' was fighting for his country and ultimately lost his life."

Virgin war casualty vs. Chad war profiteer.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

I can actually do better, this tweet was from Zoka, a Pro-Russian.
View attachment 4864977
One of the railcars are from 2022, specifically made on October 14th 2022. So "The video is old!" argument is DOA.

EDIT: Also I found the specific railcar in the picture. It's one that's passing exactly 10 seconds in the first video.

Counter-deboonked successfully, ziggers back to huffing copium.

 

[DumbDude43]

I can actually do better, this tweet was from Zoka, a Pro-Russian.
View attachment 4864977
One of the railcars are from 2022, specifically made on October 14th 2022. So "The video is old!" argument is DOA.

EDIT: Also I found the specific railcar in the picture. It's one that's passing exactly 10 seconds in the first video.

next stage of cope is "they're being transported for export, not for use in war"
which might be true, might be false. it's certainly possible that some smaller country overseas is interested in purchasing old tanks like that for cheap, but it's impossible to prove or disprove because details about international arms deals like that are probably kept secret by the nations involved.

we'll only know for sure once they get spotted again - either on the battlefield in ukraine, or being unloaded at a port in venezuela or uganda.