Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

That Katyusha seems to have the civilian plates on it, so my guess is that they are meant for a WW2 parade or something.
May 9th is only some 6 weeks away after all.
Considering how much of their shit is being used right now, it would make sense they would pad out their military parade with vintage stuff instead. Maybe wear period uniforms too, pretend it's all too plan.
 
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I know it’s the bloody Warthog Channel which is concentrated levels of Holhol autism… but are those actual fucking Studebakers? I’m actually seeing that, right? 1942 era Lend Lease gear towing artillery?
Its been pointed out that May Day & Soviet Jerking Off Stalin's Corpse Day are about a month away, so this is probably just all the parade hardware being transported. But who knows, its Clown War.

Actually you can own one with a live gun, assuming you can get the appropriate Firearms Certificate. In fact there's a place in the UK currently selling a Scorpion with a live 76mm gun. Similarly they can be licensed for road use, but in typical government fashion they make it as much of a ballache as humanly possible, however there's some out there already registered meaning it's perfectly legal to drive down to the local Tesco, assuming you have a category H license.
In the US, iirc, you don't even need a cert for the cannon but you have to have a certificate for each and every round (and $200 tax stamp per).

United States never signed any treaty regarding the expansion of NATO with the USSR. Every member of NATO joined cause they wanted to a part of it. As no nation was forced into NATO against their will.

Not really I think most people in this thread are self aware of the corruption in Ukraine, the people here are also aware that type of corruption is prevalent in most places on the globe. Nobody cares about the corruption. For me personally I support a country defending itself from an invader and wish for the Russians to stop shelling children.
It'd be different if this was something like say Canada invading Venezuela. The Canadian government is low corruption and generally functional, Venezeulans would probably be better off under Canadian governance.

But Russia is a corrupt shithole. Ukraine is also a corrupt shithole, so there is no reason they should be forced to trade their parasites in Kiev for ones in Moscow, other than the parasites in Moscow don't believe they have enough serfs to bleed.

I mean China and PLA is still a huge unknown threat and it should be taken seriously due unlike Russia they do have realistic goals(Asian theater superpower by 2030) and they are properly restructuring their military problem is that a lot of the costs are being spent on new systems and not maintaining old ones unlike US that keeps a good balance on those things. Plus they haven't been deployed anywhere aside the Indian border where they occasionally clash with Indian armed forces in Meele combat but that's it. A bit of speculation they might try their luck with deploying oversees operacion in Africa since they started to offload a lot of business operations there and local warlords are giving them shit and hell they will get a green light from the UN there to bring some law there
China currently has zero force projection. They lack transport capacity and their logistics are Russia-levels of bad. So much like Russia if you share a border, its not good.

China is supposedly using Belt and Road to not just put their boots on niggernecks but to start scaling up their external logistic capacity. I am excited to see Chink Rhodesia become a reality.


Russia needs all the shells it can get. Their current problem is shell rationing.
Russia cannot feed their tubes as much as they'd like. And the issue there for Ukraine is tha Russia can increase reserves by doing defensive, reducing expenditure, and stockpiling rounds (as long as they aren't in himars range, kek)

tl;dr I saw some wonking about the latest Bahkmut push being the result of something like a month of stockpiling shells by reducing usage in other theaters (the guy had some photo & number proof to show the firing the area before the push had slacked, but I glazed over it so might have been bogus). This is why the commanders were bitching about thier ammo getting diverted while Wagner cried on tiktok for more rounds.
Again, if Russia had functioning military command - not good, not average, just not completely pants shitting retarded - Ukraine would be pretty well boned.
 
Hear me out. What if we got Donald Trump to mention Kiwi Farms?
Can you imagine a gayops to get the US Gobmint to mention the valiant, patriotic group of people on a far right chud forum full of evil Russian-friendly weirdos that dare oppose the might of the Evil Empire. Some journo asking that black chick that made fun of Marianne Williamson if she knows about the struggle for Ukrainain sovereignty on Kiwi lands, and that there is a thread so patriotic that you get banned from if you dislike the US or NATO
 
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This morning dashcam footage started circulating on Russian & Ukrainian channels, of an ethnic woman & her child stopped by "Ukrainian fascists", unsurprisingly driving a vehicle marked with an iron cross. She is ordered to cease speaking "pig language"; various other vulgar threats are made, and one fires a bunch of rounds near the car (or into, depending on where it's posted).


Internet OSINT autists promptly geolocate it to an area long occupied by the Russians, with no Ukrainian presence in years.
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In the US, iirc, you don't even need a cert for the cannon but you have to have a certificate for each and every round (and $200 tax stamp per).
I think most of the Federal certs needed for a cannon in the US are regarding the Black Powder. And limits to how much you can have on hand. A friend is a State employee who manages the historic cannons. There are some needed certifications that at least someone involved needs to have. But it isn't as straightforward as "Licensed for Cannons". It's more explosives handling stuff. The Feds are okay with you owning a muzzle loading cannon. You just can't put an actual projectile in it. The cynic in me tends to assume that the ATF looks at the historic recreator groups and assume they'll probably just kill themselves with no harm to actual people. Historical Reenactors. Wannabe 19th Century Lolcows!
 
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I think most of the Federal certs needed for a cannon in the US are regarding the Black Powder. And limits to how much you can have on hand. A friend is a State employee who manages the historic cannons. There are some needed certifications that at least someone involved needs to have. But it isn't as straightforward as "Licensed for Cannons". It's more explosives handling stuff. The Feds are okay with you owning a breach loading cannon. You just can't put an actual projectile in it. The cynic in me tends to assume that the ATF looks at the historic recreator groups and assume they'll probably just kill themselves with no harm to actual people. Historical Reenactors. Wannabe 19th Century Lolcows!
makes sense that they're mostly concerned about the powder
even if you had a modern tank cannon with ammunition, you could probably still cause a lot more damage by taking apart the shells and using the propellant to make an IED instead of actually firing the cannon. the danger to civilian life and infrastructure is much greater.
 
This morning dashcam footage started circulating on Russian & Ukrainian channels, of an ethnic woman & her child stopped by "Ukrainian fascists", unsurprisingly driving a vehicle marked with an iron cross. She is ordered to cease speaking "pig language"; various other vulgar threats are made, and one fires a bunch of rounds near the car (or into, depending on where it's posted).

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Internet OSINT autists promptly geolocate it to an area long occupied by the Russians, with no Ukrainian presence in years.
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the broken Ukrainian is really interesting, its like an Indian talking in English or Russian speaking English you can hear the accent, or speech impediments whichever you prefer. it could also be the mask, either way fascinating stuff from Russian propaganda team
 
I've always wondered. What was the UKs logic in making a tank that fires a round caliber different from literally every other NATO tank?
Thinking isn't really fashionable in large sections of the British Army Officer Corps. Tank regiments in the British Army are historically cavalry ones, which makes them the most socially connected regiments in the Army. To the extend that an officers mess bill can be several thousand pounds a month (so a private income will be required).

Also the British Army is one of the few western militaries that commissions non graduates. Which most cavalry officers aren't, they do directly from a select handful of public (private) schools to the family regiment. In between they do a 9 month course at sandhurst and that's it.

The Cavalry Officers responsible for writing the specifications for the CR2 were essentially led by the nose by Vickers, who didn't want to put the Rheinmetall gun in it. Instead they actually managed to get the Cavalry (which made the MOD) to buy two separate rifled guns, the first one they had lying around because they were going to sell them to Iran, and a second one that they were developing and would later install.

I genuinely believe that most British Tank officers were unaware that HESH doesn't work against spaced armor. It doesn't even need ERA to defeat it. When the CR2 started finishing dead last in international gunnery competitions, they just stopped entering them, and whinging they weren't realistic.

Even the two piece ammunition isn't an advantage because it can't fire modern DU penetrators. They had to order special ones from the US which were incredibly expensive.
 
e: the rifled gun was also cheaper, because the UK had already developed it for the Chieftan. Buying in a foreign gun would have been more expensive, and at the time there was no actual compatibility between the US and other NATO members. The Chally2 had to maintain backwards compatibility with the Chally1 for supply and maintenance reasons.
Hence they swaping to smothbore 120mm in Chally3 along other goodies to upgrade their entire tank fleet also will be interesting to see how Chally2 will go agianst atcual near pear adversery due the tank was designed to fight insurgencys.
 
Thinking isn't really fashionable in large sections of the British Army Officer Corps. Tank regiments in the British Army are historically cavalry ones, which makes them the most socially connected regiments in the Army. To the extend that an officers mess bill can be several thousand pounds a month (so a private income will be required).

Also the British Army is one of the few western militaries that commissions non graduates. Which most cavalry officers aren't, they do directly from a select handful of public (private) schools to the family regiment. In between they do a 9 month course at sandhurst and that's it.

The Cavalry Officers responsible for writing the specifications for the CR2 were essentially led by the nose by Vickers, who didn't want to put the Rheinmetall gun in it. Instead they actually managed to get the Cavalry (which made the MOD) to buy two separate rifled guns, the first one they had lying around because they were going to sell them to Iran, and a second one that they were developing and would later install.

I genuinely believe that most British Tank officers were unaware that HESH doesn't work against spaced armor. It doesn't even need ERA to defeat it. When the CR2 started finishing dead last in international gunnery competitions, they just stopped entering them, and whinging they weren't realistic.

Even the two piece ammunition isn't an advantage because it can't fire modern DU penetrators. They had to order special ones from the US which were incredibly expensive.
sounds like they're handing complete garbage to ukraine
how does this squash head ammo perform against T72 tanks? does it do anything or is it worthless?
 
sounds like they're handing complete garbage to ukraine
how does this squash head ammo perform against T72 tanks? does it do anything or is it worthless?
It won't do anything against any sort of spaced Armor, maybe the export model T-72's. The Russian standard variant that has the armor cast with silicone through it, probably won't do anything. HESH will work well against bunkers, it's essentially just a big wad of Plastic explosive. However I doubt they actually have that much of it.

The one advantage of CR2 is that it's incredibly well armored, and the chassis is okay cross country for a 60 ton tank.
sounds like they're handing complete garbage to ukraine
how does this squash head ammo perform against T72 tanks? does it do anything or is it worthless?

Some variants of the Bulldog are really good. It's still just essentially a tracked APC, but with a couple of hundred they put a new engine/gearbox/steering system in it, and totally transformed it. Mobility is really good and it can take a lot of up armoring. It just depends on what variant they're being given.
 
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Recent tank deliveries in a nutshell:
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Random article that amused me
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...compensation-over-nord-stream-blasts-diplomat (archive)

Russia may demand compensation over Nord Stream blasts: Diplomat​

Dmitry Birichevsky says Moscow intends to insist on a comprehensive and open international probe.

Russia may seek compensation over damage from last year’s explosions on the Nord Stream gas pipelines.

The pipelines, which connect Russia and Germany under the Baltic Sea, were hit by unexplained blasts last September in what Moscow called an act of “international terrorism”.

“We do not rule out later the raising of the issue of compensation for damage as a result of the explosion of the Nord Stream gas pipelines,” Dmitry Birichevsky, head of Russia’s foreign ministry department for economic cooperation, said in an interview with the RIA Novosti news agency.

He added on Monday that Western countries were opposing a Russia-prepared draft UN Security Council resolution urging an independent international investigation of the Nord Stream blasts.

“Despite this, we intend to continue to insist on a comprehensive and open international investigation with the mandatory participation of Russian representatives,” Birichevsky said.

The Nord Stream pipelines were intended to bring Russian gas to Germany, though since Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine a year ago, Berlin has taken steps to reduce its reliance on Russian hydrocarbons.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia would establish who was behind the blasts before claiming any compensation.

“For now the data indicates that such a large-scale act of sabotage and a terrorist attack against critical infrastructure could not have been carried out without the participation of the state and special state services,” he said.

“You see that Western countries are taking all possible measures to cover up this issue… But Russia will do everything possible to prevent this from happening.”

Putin’s comments

In mid-March, President Vladimir Putin dismissed as “sheer nonsense” allegations that Ukrainians could be behind the explosions that crippled the Nord Stream gas pipelines, suggesting the United States may have been responsible.

The Russian leader insisted the US had a motive to carry out the attack in the Baltic Sea last year, saying it wanted to halt supplies of cheap Russian natural gas to Europe and provide the continent with more expensive liquefied natural gas.

September’s explosions that hit the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 pipelines rendered them inoperable and caused significant leaks of methane gas.

The leaks in the Baltic Sea led to what is likely the biggest single release of climate-damaging methane ever recorded, the United Nations Environment Programme said.

Western countries, including Germany, have said they believe the blasts were a deliberate act but declined to say who they think was responsible.
 
It's 120mm, same calibre as NATO. The difference is that the barrel is rifled, so the tank can fire HESH, and it uses two-part ammunition so that the propellant can be stored separately, in water-filled containers to reduce the chance of fire if the bins take a hit.

It's been recognised since that HESH isn't worth the faff.

e: the rifled gun was also cheaper, because the UK had already developed it for the Chieftan. Buying in a foreign gun would have been more expensive, and at the time there was no actual compatibility between the US and other NATO members. The Chally2 had to maintain backwards compatibility with the Chally1 for supply and maintenance reasons.
My man, NATO compatibility (simply because everyone wanted to be able to piggyback off the USA) was a thing starting in the 1950's. During said 1950's the French, British, and American 120's were all designed to use the same two-part ammo, even if in England's case it was just the projectiles since they were the only ones to use loose powder bags instead of brass cartridges. There's a reason the US 7.62mm round we created for the M14 became the standard rifle round in NATO despite Britain creating the .280 British? But no, you Bongs insisted on the 120mm gun for the Chieftain during development work when everyone was already using the Royal Ordnance L7A1 or some variant thereof that used the same ammunition. You need to resurrect whoever was running the TDO when the Centurion was created and decided upon as the standard because they're the only person with a lick of sense to ever be in charge there.

You know, I could go on a rant about how you guys haven't made a half-decent tank ever since you decided the Centurion wasn't cutting it anymore, but I'm not drunk enough to give such a fucked-up situation the attention it deserves. Maybe the homosexual slurring pig will give the British Tank Office the review it needs, assuming he ever feels like risking alcohol poisoning because Uralvagonzavod at least has the excuse of being run and staffed by Russians, which is something that can't be said for your shitty floating garbage patch that pretends its an island, or worse, a modern military power.

Yes, I do feel better after typing all that, actually. There is nothing that infuriates me so much at looking at everything the Bongs did with tanks after creating that masterpiece known as the Centurion.
I think most of the Federal certs needed for a cannon in the US are regarding the Black Powder. And limits to how much you can have on hand. A friend is a State employee who manages the historic cannons. There are some needed certifications that at least someone involved needs to have. But it isn't as straightforward as "Licensed for Cannons". It's more explosives handling stuff. The Feds are okay with you owning a muzzle loading cannon. You just can't put an actual projectile in it. The cynic in me tends to assume that the ATF looks at the historic recreator groups and assume they'll probably just kill themselves with no harm to actual people. Historical Reenactors. Wannabe 19th Century Lolcows!
That's only if you use authentic black powder, mostly because its notoriously easy to ignite. Modern substitutes get around that by adding stabilizers to reduce its volatility, allowing it to be bought, stored, and transported the same way smokeless powder is. The guns themselves are largely exempt from firearms law since they're classed as antiques under the 1934 NFA as a category legally distinct from that of a firearm. As a result, depending on state jurisdiction smoothbore cannon are 100% legal.

The ATF even has a specific page to answer that question, no doubt because of the teeth-grinding frustration they feel at people being allowed to own and operate 12-pounder field guns, just as the Founding Fathers intended.
 
Even the two piece ammunition isn't an advantage because it can't fire modern DU penetrators. They had to order special ones from the US which were incredibly expensive.
Which utterly defeats one of the advantage of DU penetrators: their cost.
DU is fractions the price of Tungsten, so having to order the more expensive custom-made special rounds is fucking exceptional
:stress:

sounds like they're handing complete garbage to ukraine
how does this squash head ammo perform against T72 tanks? does it do anything or is it worthless?
Against another tank the Chally is (ideally) going to be shooting L27 penetrators.
Rifled guns aren't as effective as smoothbores at shooting kinetic penetrators, but they can still fire them and would still cause more damage to an enemy tank than a HESH.
(now the Wagnerites & Mobiks hunkered down in a pillbox or behind a concrete barricade on the other hand, might seriously need to worry about HESH)
 
One of the many things that I found amusing about this whole war was when it was initiated the Z crowd were supper annoyed that Ukraine had the audacity to want to fight back and defend themselves. The argument was they are just senselessly killing themselves. I do not know about you but If someone invaded my country I would hit back too. Judging by how well the Ukrainan forces are defending and dishing it out seems like the concern was all bullshit.
 
One of the many things that I found amusing about this whole war was when it was initiated the Z crowd were supper annoyed that Ukraine had the audacity to want to fight back and defend themselves. The argument was they are just senselessly killing themselves. I do not know about you but If someone invaded my country I would hit back too. Judging by how well the Ukrainan forces are defending and dishing it out seems like the concern was all bullshit.
The biggest issue with this comment is your use of the past tense.

Ziggers still use this argument to this very day. They still think that the Ukrainians are just dying en-masse towards an inevitable defeat in a war that Ukraine can't win.
 
One of the many things that I found amusing about this whole war was when it was initiated the Z crowd were supper annoyed that Ukraine had the audacity to want to fight back and defend themselves. The argument was they are just senselessly killing themselves. I do not know about you but If someone invaded my country I would hit back too. Judging by how well the Ukrainan forces are defending and dishing it out seems like the concern was all bullshit.
It's more then that if you ask any if western Russia supporter a hypothetical question say for example you minding your own business and suddenly a neighbor knocks down your fence and says now your yard is his. What do you think his reaction is to kick that guys ass and call the cops or just accept it due he's more powerful then me.
 
Yeah I do not use Youtube channels to get my sitrep from because its obvious people who are talking out of their ass are just grifting which ever side they pander to for views. I find the Institute for the Study of War to be reasonable and some Ukranian outlets usually the ones that tend to mirror the more reputable Official Russian ones the data sets are all within a reasonable margin of error.
Only youtuber I usually go-to is Perun, though a lot of that is because I actually find dry shit like geostrategy and military procurement/logistics interesting. He also tends to be fairly balanced all things considered.

As for publications:
ISW is pretty good for daily updates. Their shit is cited and it's comprised of people who know what they're talking about.
I generally like shit from think tanks, as I like learning about ideas and consequences more than I do daily updates of what street was taken/lost in Bakhmut today. In that sense, my go-tos have been CSIS and RAND Corporation. Also War on the Rocks, which isn't quite a think tank but generally puts out scholarly-type articles written by experts.

I'm sure retards totally reasonable people will bitch that they're all lies and propaganda and jews and you can't trust anything they say blah blah blah. Maybe it's just my bias from my current career path, but I tend to put weight behind cited, reviewed works written to further the study of a field by people who are involved in said field. They might not be right 100% of the time, they might have some opinions I disagree with, but even if they're wrong and I don't agree with their premise it gives me something to think about that actually enhances my knowledge base. And they sure as hell present shit with way more nuance and understanding of the subject than literal anime avatars who's main source and experience is "trust me bro I played HoI once" or retard culture warriors.
Also lol historylegends.

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HistoryLegends and Task & Purpose are basically the same youtubers with the same fundamental problems (overexaggerating, being outright wrong, being annoying) just on different sides of the issue. I think they should fight to the death for my amusement (and so I don't have to see another of their annoying-ass thumbnails again).
 
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