Epic! 8-bitguy uses 1 weird trick to detroy rare prototypes!

[Zyklon Ben's Poison Pen]

You can make a functional retro-style machine using just a microcontroller.

Could do the whole thing on a smallish FPGA but that wasn't the point.
It might have been better to maybe back off a lil bit and move the graphics and the sounds to daughterboards and simplified the mainboard with the discrete components he could get,

 

[AmpleApricots]

I'll never get the point of building a retro machine with FPGAs. Engineering-wise you always get to the thought process of "using all these old ICs is so inefficient, it'd be better to just shove everything into the FPGA, use some micros for housekeeping etc." which eventually turns into "why am I even building this" and then it stops being fun. It also feels kinda ridiculous to have an FPGA in such a design to be honest. Especially since all of them are just reiterating old concepts of the 80s and 90s and not really doing anything new. (which frankly, could be interesting just nobody does)

Sounds like they fell for the old chinese "999999 available" shtick, which is funny considering how far they got. You gotta scrutinize such old stock a little bit more than that, especially if you want large numbers. A lot of such old IC stocks have quite the history behind them and often it's straight up recycled e-waste.

 

[Coolio55]

• The Yamaha chip they were gonna use for music is more expensive now than they planned it to be. from $2 to $11 per chip. They have an FPGA replacement but it costs the same. lol
  • Some company said they had a ton of these. turned out they didn't.

It was a really poor decision in hindsight to use vintage Yamaha chips. I mean, they knew from the beginning that using out of production materials was stupid. Why'd they still do it?!
I'd ask why they didn't just stick a modern synth chip in there but it seems to be the big bugbear for modern retro systems. I'm assuming that they're either too expensive, too complex or everyone's just moved to CPU with a DAC output.
If I were him, I'd just see if I could commission Frank to add some konami/hudson style wavetable channels to the VERA.

I'll never get the point of building a retro machine with FPGAs. Engineering-wise you always get to the thought process of "using all these old ICs is so inefficient, it'd be better to just shove everything into the FPGA, use some micros for housekeeping etc." which eventually turns into "why am I even building this" and then it stops being fun. It also feels kinda ridiculous to have an FPGA in such a design to be honest. Especially since all of them are just reiterating old concepts of the 80s and 90s and not really doing anything new. (which frankly, could be interesting just nobody does)

In my personal view, it's all about having an easily emulatable standard. Something allowing you to play games developed for it on a variety of software and hardware platforms.

 

[Pee Cola]

I'd ask why they didn't just stick a modern synth chip in there but it seems to be the big bugbear for modern retro systems. I'm assuming that they're either too expensive, too complex or everyone's just moved to CPU with a DAC output.

Yamaha still makes an FM synth chip, the YMF825. I only learned of this after reading the YT comments on that video, but then again I have no reason to search for modern FM synth chips so that's probably why I missed it.

If I were him, I'd just see if I could commission Frank to add some konami/hudson style wavetable channels to the VERA.

That would involve using a larger FPGA for the VERA. The current one is already full (again according to YT comments).

 

[Zyklon Ben's Poison Pen]

Yamaha still makes an FM synth chip, the YMF825.

That looks pretty decent, even comes in DIP SMD (SSOP24).
Ahh I think I know why they didn't want it:

- 16-voice polyphonic FM synthesizer
- 29 on-chip operator-waveforms

This things is a synth on steroids, probably goes into modern synthesizers & digital pianos. Tis too modern and hardcore.

 

[Mikoyan]

That looks pretty decent, even comes in DIP SMD (SSOP24).
Ahh I think I know why they didn't want it:

- 16-voice polyphonic FM synthesizer
- 29 on-chip operator-waveforms

This things is a synth on steroids, probably goes into modern synthesizers & digital pianos. Tis too modern and hardcore.

You could limit it to just 2 or 4-op sounds, or go whole hog. No reason not to of course, unless addressing it is way harder than an OPN or whatever they had.

 

[Zyklon Ben's Poison Pen]

unless addressing it is way harder than an OPN or whatever they had

Looks like the modern one is serially interfaced where the OPL3 is a more traditional 8 pins on the databus with chip select

 

[Mr. Duck]

Yamaha still makes an FM synth chip, the YMF825. I only learned of this after reading the YT comments on that video, but then again I have no reason to search for modern FM synth chips so that's probably why I missed it.

That would involve using a larger FPGA for the VERA. The current one is already full (again according to YT comments).

That chip would have been a good choice, since it can sound exactly like an old OPL3 chip.

But instead they had to go with the discontinued Yamaha chip for "retro credibility" or some autistic excuse like that.

 

[Mikoyan]

View attachment 4971313
Looks like the modern one is serially interfaced where the OPL3 is a more traditional 8 pins on the databus with chip select

Good catch. But it looks like it's just SPI, which is pretty easy to implement on a simple system.

 

[Zyklon Ben's Poison Pen]

Good catch. But it looks like it's just SPI, which is pretty easy to implement on a simple system.

The X16 is basically a C64 rip off so I think they'll avoid anything modern like SPI. Everything looks like its addressable on the CPU address bus and they are sticking to that philosophy.

 

[TheBigZee]

You can make a functional retro-style machine using just a microcontroller.

You can emulate the original IBM PC/vic20 on an esp32.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I1U2nEoxIQ

I'll never get the point of building a retro machine with FPGAs. Engineering-wise you always get to the thought process of "using all these old ICs is so inefficient, it'd be better to just shove everything into the FPGA, use some micros for housekeeping etc." which eventually turns into "why am I even building this" and then it stops being fun. It also feels kinda ridiculous to have an FPGA in such a design to be honest. Especially since all of them are just reiterating old concepts of the 80s and 90s and not really doing anything new. (which frankly, could be interesting just nobody does)

Making something like the x16 wasn't a good idea - if he wanted to make a commercial nostalgia project, he could have just built a hardware bus interface for VICE running on an arm SoC (like the c64 maxi but with real IO ports and a cartridge interface). Most of the motherboard/vera might as well be on a single chip as far as end users are concerned.

You fall into some hardcore allegory of the cave/ship of Theseus shit pretty quickly with all of retro-homebrew. The x16 fills the same niche as the zx spectrum next, and the problems 8 bit guy is having are because he couldn't resolve his own feelings about how much of the c64 needed to be preserved in order for the machine to have a soul.

 

[Pee Cola]

The x16 fills the same niche as the zx spectrum next, and the problems 8 bit guy is having are because he couldn't resolve his own feelings about how much of the c64 needed to be preserved in order for the machine to have a soul.

The Commander X16's most obvious competitor is probably the MEGA65. Just like the ZX Spectrum Next, it's FPGA-based. It has a wedge form factor modelled on the aborted Commodore C65, a mechanical keyboard, a built in floppy drive and it has a C64 compatibility mode. It's a bit more expensive than the X16 Dev Board, but at least the MEGA65 is available to order now.

 

[TheBigZee]

The Commander X16's most obvious competitor is probably the MEGA65. Just like the ZX Spectrum Next, it's FPGA-based. It has a wedge form factor modelled on the aborted Commodore C65, a mechanical keyboard, a built in floppy drive and it has a C64 compatibility mode. It's a bit more expensive than the X16 Dev Board, but at least the MEGA65 is available to order now.

I wonder what most people do with them after they buy them. You take your $1,200 toy out of the box, run some programs, dick around writing some assembly and...

 

[Coolio55]

I wonder what most people do with them after they buy them. You take your $1,200 toy out of the box, run some programs, dick around writing some assembly and...

Isn't that kinds the point though? I assumed you were gonna make fun of people for just posting theirs on social media...

 

[Never Scored]

I'm kind of scratching my head at the existence of the console version. If I'm not specifically interested in dicking around with the full blown computer version, I fail to see the appeal over something like, say, an Evercade Vs which is cheaper with a better library.

 

[SNEED.EXE]

 

[Raging Capybara]

And on top of that, he's fluent in German but still doesn't brag about that.

And when he was a kid he was a phreaker. Literally thug life.

 

[Robust User]

The X16 is basically a C64 rip off so I think they'll avoid anything modern like SPI. Everything looks like its addressable on the CPU address bus and they are sticking to that philosophy.

Will it be able to run TempleOS?

 

[Pee Cola]

Will it be able to run TempleOS?

I think Terry would be more impressed with the Agon Light than the Commander X16, even though the former uses a Z80 instead of a 6502. It's way cheaper and much simpler than the X16. After all, a genius admires simplicity and an idiot admires complexity.

 

[Coolio55]

I find it kinda humorous that David is making a Commodore successor but ended up making an Atari mistake (ST joke ST joke).