Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[LucasSomething]

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People forget that these shows are made by neurotic losers for petty, vindictive stunted adults who need their opinions validated by cartoons ostensibly made for children.

"You should talk through conflicts with 'fragile traditional values' - except when you shouldn't, because people who don't agree with you should be destroyed."

What the hell happened these past few years where terminally online now people pretend Steven Universe ending was good? It was universally agreed to be rushed at best and mocked for years, but now i see people call it underrated and say everyone missed the point.

Here is the big twist of Steven Universe ending, it's not about "fighting against traditional values", it's about nepotism.
Despite the memes, Steven didnt win because he's this "Talk no jutsu master" who convinced the diamonds into turning good, he won because HE IS THE ONLY PERSON who couldnt lose. If Steven was any other person or gem, war would be inevitable and the diamonds would stomp him, but instead the villains already love him and feel guilty by default of being a presumed dead family member.

Imagine you're one of the diamonds and you find out your sister FUCKING DIED. Except it was a PRANK and she KILLED HERSELF? Except that was a bigger prank and now she identifies as a boy??? Steven universe ending is about 3 sad and jaded women essentially being guilt tripped into giving up everything they built for the sake of hoping their autistic little sister wont kill herself again.

There is no point where any diamond says "Perhaps our traditions were a mistake and we should learn to listen to not only our people but other species", no sir, there is only "Pink said we should be nicer so we'll try to be cause we dont want pink to leave us again".

Even at its "best", SU fucks itself over by having Pink Diamond be portrayed as a cowardly monster instead of an abuse victim and have Steven be an unironic messiah who solves everything with little struggle. Everytime the show will say out loud Steven cant make miracles, he will proceed to literally resurrect the dead. This is why SU Future themes dont land at all, because Steven is being schizophrenic and for the sake of forced drama.

I have not watched much Owl House but didnt they spend waaay too much buildup on belos just to have him end like a shallow loser who gets stomped to death? This feels like a real thematic send off and more like the writers realized they failed hard to make him interesting and gave up, trying to make him the universal excuse to all bad things and literally everything is solved the moment he dies, the end.

 

[Mega Black]

Even at its "best", SU fucks itself over by having Pink Diamond be portrayed as a cowardly monster instead of an abuse victim and have Steven be an unironic messiah who solves everything with little struggle

Steven Universe completely fell apart when Sugar insisted on the Pink Diamond twist. It irrevocably broke the narrative, and her deciding that it couldn't be a standard sci-fi show with bad guys that needed defeated but instead hugged and 'redeemed' was the death knell. Early SU had a lot of potential.

 

[SpiderBitch]

It's baffling that a Disney show has a worse and less satisfying ending that something called centaurworld.
Also why is Luz god mode a furry? Also you know they only made her hair curly bc Twitter was complaining she wasn't afro-latina enough.

Spoiler: Spoiler

At least there the big bad being murdered at the end was a serious moment and didn't involve too much unearned fuckery, with the main villian also being more interesting and still getting killed despite being poc, as well as his actions being fueled by opression from humans and mental illness or whatever, but he didn't really learn anything, is not willing to change and doesn't consider his own actions as that wrong so the killing itself is also justified.
And it involved a sacrifice in the form of a character having to murder a past lover with her own hands ig, and nothing that major happens aside from the war being over.

Pretty aight ending even though the rest of the show sucks and all of the cool stuff is revealed in the ending itself, more engaging than Owl House at least.

Also at one point he saws his horns off out of selfhate and dysphoria which is very obviously shown to be a bad thing lol, but a bunch of youtube trannies say that it 'reminds them of gender dysphoria omggg trans vibes' with 0 self-awareness on what that actually implies about them, that chopping off your healthy body parts due to being mental is bad...
And also that this is the main villian who causes misery for everyone because he is incapable of being happy and makes his self-hate the problem of everyone else.

 

[TVB]

Disney TVA did better with the likes of Recess, Kim Possible and Phineas & Ferb because they were already liked by children, and its because they were way better with writing and character structure (and even humor). They did not do the same with shit like Star vs. or The Owl House because they are terrible shows with terrible writing, terrible dialogue, terrible animation and terrible character development. The only huge difference between the two creators is that Daron Nefcy is still getting work, even trying to get her new show for Nickelodeon (the same network that also screwed over creators) while Dana Terrance isn't gonna get any work anytime soon, being more of a female Alex Hirsch.

 

[Mega Black]

Dana Terrance isn't gonna get any work anytime soon, being more of a female Alex Hirsch.

What she and Hirsch never understood was that it didn't really matter if you had a critically acclaimed show under your belt, biting the hand that feeds routinely is going to make any group, no matter how otherwise approachable, reluctant to hire you on.

The Frog Show guy expressed frustration with the network a couple of times over censorship I think, but that was it. Nefcy never really complained, and now she might get new work. Dana would never shut the fuck up about how much Disney shat on her for wanting to shove a bunch of gay shit into the show... While they simultaneously let her shove a ton of gay shit into the show. It's just bad optics. Hirsch did the same and alienated half his audience while constantly shitting on the network that made him famous and now he flounders around every deal he does manage to get off the ground until it is quietly shelved.

 

[SpiderBitch]

What she and Hirsch never understood was that it didn't really matter if you had a critically acclaimed show under your belt, biting the hand that feeds routinely is going to make any group, no matter how otherwise approachable, reluctant to hire you on.

The Frog Show guy expressed frustration with the network a couple of times over censorship I think, but that was it. Nefcy never really complained, and now she might get new work. Dana would never shut the fuck up about how much Disney shat on her for wanting to shove a bunch of gay shit into the show... While they simultaneously let her shove a ton of gay shit into the show. It's just bad optics. Hirsch did the same and alienated half his audience while constantly shitting on the network that made him famous and now he flounders around every deal he does manage to get off the ground until it is quietly shelved.

Also, did Hirch start this non-sacrifice ending trend?
Gravity Falls ended with Stan losing his memory and having it back 30 seconds later....

 

[TVB]

What she and Hirsch never understood was that it didn't really matter if you had a critically acclaimed show under your belt, biting the hand that feeds routinely is going to make any group, no matter how otherwise approachable, reluctant to hire you on.

The Frog Show guy expressed frustration with the network a couple of times over censorship I think, but that was it. Nefcy never really complained, and now she might get new work. Dana would never shut the fuck up about how much Disney shat on her for wanting to shove a bunch of gay shit into the show... While they simultaneously let her shove a ton of gay shit into the show. It's just bad optics. Hirsch did the same and alienated half his audience while constantly shitting on the network that made him famous and now he flounders around every deal he does manage to get off the ground until it is quietly shelved.

And this is why I sorta respect Nefcy over Hirsch and Dana. Even if don't like Star vs. anymore, at least Nefcy appears more chill, especially when she found out her show is cancelled by Disney. It's nice that she's working at Nick pitching her own show, but it's also worrisome because Nick also is responsible for screwing up shows, and I could go on about shit like a planned Jimmy Neutron fourth season being axed, Angry Beavers getting shitcanned over a final episode, most shows in the mid-2000s being burntout by Nick execs, and also milking every bit of dough of their own shows, especially the ones that were already cancelled.

 

[Slideshow Bill]

Owl House was set up as a quirky Isekai adventure about being a rogue witch, but very quickly becomes generic Harry Potter fanfiction when Luz joins the magic school her mentor flunked out of. Like all Disney shows produced after Gravity Falls the season hints at a larger story and lore but spends most of the runtime being bog standard episodic shenanigans.

Dana spent her entire career at Disney shitting on Disney and thus had her grand plan of a five season show cut down to two and three specials.

The story is that a white Christian guy got stuck on the boiling isles and he is bad and Luz is the specialist girl ever and beats him.

But Luz is the quirkiest, most special girl in existence, ignoring the fact that she's basically from Halloweentown. A town called Gravesfield, where stories of witches are imbedded in the culture of the town, witchhunters are seen as folklore legends, there's a museum dedicated to the supernatural and occult, but Luz doesn't fit in because she likes "spooky and weird" things? Okay. I'm sick of outcast characters written by people who were obviously never outcasts.

 

[TVB]

Halloweentown

Here's a thought in my mind here. Why is every Disney product have to have the town name Halloweentown? The Nightmare Before Christmas has a Halloween-themed universe named as such, there's a series of Disney Channel TV movies that also bares the same name, the bullshit DTVA series The Owl House was taken place there, and none of them are even connected to each other. It's just too generic.

 

[starborn427614]

Also, did Hirch start this non-sacrifice ending trend?
Gravity Falls ended with Stan losing his memory and having it back 30 seconds later....

That is the biggest stain on the ending imo. Leaving it ambiguous as to whether Stan will recover as he and Ford head off to explore the world would've been more satisfying.

 

[Oats12345]

Also, did Hirch start this non-sacrifice ending trend?
Gravity Falls ended with Stan losing his memory and having it back 30 seconds later....

That is the biggest stain on the ending imo. Leaving it ambiguous as to whether Stan will recover as he and Ford head off to explore the world would've been more satisfying.

This is why I love Regular Show's finale as sad as it is. Pops stays dead. Which really makes the finale feel like a finale.

 

[starborn427614]

This is why I love Regular Show's finale as sad as it is. Pops stays dead. Which really makes the finale feel like a finale.

I'm still wondering how RS went from a show about two losers working a shitty job to Pops dragging his evil self(?) into the sun. Maybe one day HBO will pull their fucking finger out and bring the streaming service to the UK, then I'll watch the thing.

 

[Oats12345]

I'm still wondering how RS went from a show about two losers working a shitty job to Pops dragging his evil self(?) into the sun. Maybe one day HBO will pull their fucking finger out and bring the streaming service to the UK, then I'll watch the thing.

It's a bizarre transition somewheres in season 7. But I really do enjoy the finale and to this day I am still surprised that Pops is dead.

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

People forget that these shows are made by neurotic losers for petty, vindictive stunted adults who need their opinions validated by cartoons ostensibly made for children.

I find it embarrassing that a bunch of adults need kid shows to feel validated.

This is why I love Regular Show's finale as sad as it is. Pops stays dead. Which really makes the finale feel like a finale.

Pops went out like a real champ in my opinion.

 

[Mega Black]

But Luz is the quirkiest, most special girl in existence, ignoring the fact that she's basically from Halloweentown. A town called Gravesfield, where stories of witches are imbedded in the culture of the town, witchhunters are seen as folklore legends, there's a museum dedicated to the supernatural and occult, but Luz doesn't fit in because she likes "spooky and weird" things? Okay. I'm sick of outcast characters written by people who were obviously never outcasts.

I maintain that the show's silver bullet, and why it got cancelled super hard and nobody focuses on anything but the gay shit, is it's absolutely bog standard and otherwise insufferable characters. Despite some decent designs, not a one is memorable, and a lot of them are downright nonsensical.

 

[Oats12345]

I find it embarrassing that a bunch of adults need kid shows to feel validated.



Pops went out like a real champ in my opinion.

Indeed Pops went out like a true hero unlike a lot of the more recent cartoon sacrifices where the character comes back for some reason

 

[starborn427614]

I maintain that the show's silver bullet, and why it got cancelled super hard and nobody focuses on anything but the gay shit, is it's absolutely bog standard and otherwise insufferable characters. Despite some decent designs, not a one is memorable, and a lot of them are downright nonsensical.

I will be interested in seeing how Owl House fares when it comes to sticking power.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Anyone remember this bullshit? I swear I only remember this very faintly and I love skater bro.

We could view 6Teen as a time capsule knowing now then malls isn't cool as it used to be and with the number of death malls rising...

 

[SpiderBitch]

Indeed Pops went out like a true hero unlike a lot of the more recent cartoon sacrifices where the character comes back for some reason

Even ATLA which these new shows seem to want to ape had some true sacrifices like Sokka's girlfriend turning into the moon :/

 

[madethistocomment]

I have not watched much Owl House but didnt they spend waaay too much buildup on belos just to have him end like a shallow loser who gets stomped to death? This feels less like a real thematic send off and more like the writers realized they failed hard to make him interesting and gave up, trying to make him the universal excuse to all bad things and literally everything is solved the moment he dies, the end.

@LucasSomething I can't quote you for some reason, but yeah, they really gave him a terrible sendoff in comparison to how much they built him up. They didn't even have Hunter involved in it, which was wild to me considering he's pretty much inseparably intertwined with Belos as a character and has the most personal stake in Belos' arc. Instead they have Eda, King, and Eda's insufferable pooner girlfriend do him in by stomping him to death, of all things.

I cannot get over that some kid on twitter made an infinitely better and more poignant death scene for Belos than the people actually in charge of writing the show.

Spoiler: Spoiling because it's a bit long