Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Ghostse]

My guess is they are there to advise and observe on the ground, rather than doing sneaky operations against the Russians. 97 special forces dudes can do some stuff, but not much to change the course of the war. In Afghanistan there were 500 British special forces alone and that was a lower intensity conflict.

Whereas this war is a phenomenal opportunity for Western nations to learn how a near peer adversary like Russia operates and performs in a conventional war, so it's a no-brainer to send a small number of guys in to study the battlefield and see how Russian equipment and doctrine actually performs in reality.

Of course it's not good to have it confirmed in the open. It's not going to start a nuclear war, anymore than Soviet special forces operating in Vietnam did, but it will aid Kremlin propaganda about this being a war between Russia and NATO, as absurd as 97 dudes constituting a war against Russia obviously is.

I remember seeing speculation there were NATO SF as part of Zelensky's security detail.
100 guys isn't enough to do anything other than laz some targets for JDAMs.
But I know the average Zignut is going to be losing their shit about the 500,000,000 dead NATO soldiers and mercenaries in the perfectly constructed meatgrinder of Bahkmut Artemovsk.

This is going to sound a bit "uncle who works for Nintendo" but i know a guy who is in the British army who is currently stationed in Poland training Ukie soldiers to deal with IEDs and other bomb disposal stuff.

They are mostly providing training and intel but that isn't to say that a few of them don't provide more hands-on assistance in certain circumstances.

My guess would be like Military advisors in the Filipines: they go out with the troops but are not allowed to engage, and occasionally the troops assigned to babysit the SF guys rack up a huge body count.

Clashes in Chechnya last night; a quick look through Twitter suggests it's anti-Kadyrovite insurgents against Kadyrovite security forces:
View attachment 5035279
Source of video, "Armed clashes between russian forces and armed citizens in Nadterechnoye, chechnya 4-11-2023(11-4-2023).": https://teddit.net/r/CombatFootage/comments/12jbggy/armed_clashes_between_russian_forces_and_armed/

Be Putin.
After your puppet is over thrown, take over Crimea.
Eurocucks BTFO, condemn your actions but buy another 80 billion in NG from you each year
Everyone is letting you fund civil war in Ukraine, even after your stooges shoot down an Airliner, and have de facto control of Crimea as long as maps don't need to be redrawn.
Not good enough, Double Down, Invade Ukraine.
Fail so hard you lose Crimea, Donbas, and Chechnya.

Imagine if Georgia started wildin' and reclaiming its territory from the Red Menace.

Edit: Fortunately the GOP is rather inept at this since they have more experience being the going along to get along party. And Americans at worst are largely indifferent to the whole conflict as along its not them being sent to do the fighting in Ukraine.

I think its more accurate to say "Lockheed-Martin funds republican campaigns, too"

 

[Uranus Pink]

Not just LockMart, it's everybody who sells anything to Uncle Sam, U.S. allies and other approved nations. With the major caveat of everyone working in the M.I.C. make up an insignificant voting block. As compare to white women, Social Security bribed old fucks, the dindu nuffins and the dead voting blocks

 

[Random Internet Person]

China is objectively more scary than Russia. Yeah, they may have economic problems but I do think it is a controlled burn. China is very good at using leverage to their advantage, something this administration absolutely sucks at. It is in China's tactics of espionage and information gathering that should not be slept on. They use this information to manipulate deals or coerce others into obedience. I wonder if China has learned anything from the Korean Bill Hwang and how dangerous leverage can be. What leverage do they have over the USA? Everything you like to purchase anywhere in the big, glorious mall that is the United States of America is made by China.

This whole text makes no sense, China doesn't build infrastructure for free, they build it with Chinese companies via loan shark loans from the People's Bank of China which the host country inevitably defaults on, at which point China forces them to sell stuff to China at a loss or accept Chinese military presence. It's exactly what all of the edgy critics accused the US of doing in the 80's-2000's.

some info on this

It's how Xi operates: a loan shark making moves in an attempt to take over the world. The idea is to create an everlasting CCP Dynasty with Xi as the emperor as the world serves the needs of Beijing. And I guess the moves with Russia is a key step to achieving that goal.

Are there actual Russian nationalists in that thread? All their most vocal supporters seem to be native English speakers.

I've just assumed it's normal Thunderdome activity: glorifying anyone who advocates for "Total ________ Death" and anyone who gives their personal pronouns in casual conversation will be put in front of a firing squad. Along with anyone who advocates for the genocide of anyone and everyone who practices the religion of Judaism.

The difference is British infrastructure failed because of the lazy niggers who wouldn't maintain it properly, while chinese infrastructure will fail because of the incompetent chinks who couldn't build it properly.

Still, the Chinese infrastructure will still lead to Africa having everything they could have taken away and no way to pay debt to China, outside of being forced to work for peanuts in an attempt that any debts will be paid off this century.

That said, this will definitely not look good for the mainstream Ziggers optics. They've been forced to stay silent about it since...well, how the fuck are you supposed to defend this thing?

not that this has already happened on the other side as well

View attachment 5036404

Russians caring about optics? I kind of assumed they stopped caring about those since they realized they were "the bad guys" in the conflict, so pretty much anything they did would be seen in the worst light. All that was left is to call out the West (especially the US) on their hypocrisy.

 

[mindlessobserver]

It's how Xi operates: a loan shark making moves in an attempt to take over the world. The idea is to create an everlasting CCP Dynasty with Xi as the emperor as the world serves the needs of Beijing. And I guess the moves with Russia is a key step to achieving that goal.

Chaos Ending. The USA actually prevails in the grand rivalry with Russia and the Russian Empire at last dies. Russia, desperate to preserve stability in the core around Moscow and west of the Urals, abandons the far east Colonies. Who will jump first to fill the vacuum. The USA or China.

This is something that needs to be seriously considered. The US State of Alaska, contrary to Tina Feys jokes about Sarah Palin, actually CAN see Russia from its back yard. And the US vassal Japan has outstanding claims in that area too. It's entirely possible the USA is on the cusp of another land grab on par with the Mexican American War. It's also one China wants to grab too.

As for the locals in the area, they may be wondering what their fate would be had the Tsar sold the Asian side of their Artic Colonies to America along with their North American side. Alaska has paved roads, a State Police force that responds to calls with helicopters, enormous oil wealth that is given to its people in a monthly stipend and so on. A mere 100 Kilometers away is the absolute ass end shit holes of shitholes of unorganized Russian Federation territory.

 

[siegemeister675]

Chaos Ending. The USA actually prevails in the grand rivalry with Russia and the Russian Empire at last dies. Russia, desperate to preserve stability in the core around Moscow and west of the Urals, abandons the far east Colonies. Who will jump first to fill the vacuum. The USA or China.

This is something that needs to be seriously considered. The US State of Alaska, contrary to Tina Feys jokes about Sarah Palin, actually CAN see Russia from its back yard. And the US vassal Japan has outstanding claims in that area too. It's entirely possible the USA is on the cusp of another land grab on par with the Mexican American War. It's also one China wants to grab too.

LOL the lib elite isn't going to want a bunch of white, far-right Siberian gopniks voting in US elections. Only that way would work is if the brown democrats in Washington decided they wanted to colonize whitey lol.

 

[mindlessobserver]

LOL the lib elite isn't going to want a bunch of white, far-right Siberian gopniks voting in US elections. Only that way would work is if the brown democrats in Washington decided they wanted to colonize whitey lol.

The US Federal system does not automatically conferr statehood to conquered territories. Land taken during war is organized as federally administrated territories and can only become a State by act of Congress and vote of the people within the territory. Until then, those people are American nationals, but not citizens.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

a drone by itself is just a toy. to make it dangerous you still need to do some old fashioned bomb-building, that's where the bottleneck is.
i don't think the drone is a big deal for civilian terrorism. using your homemade bomb by itself or as a car bomb will get you the same results. better actually, cause civilian drones only cary a small payload (they can't lift a lot of weight) while a car has no such restrictions (mcveigh crammed like two tons of anfo into his truck)

Except due to miniaturization & the accuracy which can be attained with an FPV (or even a standard Mavic), payloads don't need to be huge anymore; the military uses overkill because they can. But tiny (comparitively) warhead the size/power of a grenade or EFP is more than adequate for a cartel hit. And in many parts of the world outside of the US, things that go boom can be picked up like apples by those resourceful & intent enough. Combine that with doorstep or 3D printed availability of everything else & it's somewhat of a nightmare scenario.

And hell you don't even need specialized drone parts anymore; I've even seen a drone sperg build one from a hand-made frame, a cheap doorbell camera, cannibalised rotary motors & scavenged remote toy controller & batteries, then he made the FPV goggles by folding up some cardboard and taping the LCD screen from a refrigerator to it. Altogether I think he said it cost less than $20, but it had more than enough power to stunt & tote a Go-Pro around. The biggest limiting factor (3 years ago) was the range, both in battery life & transmission distance. And if some internet sperg can do it, I'd bet someone like Myanmar rebels could build the same just as easily (if they needed to).

 

[siegemeister675]

The US Federal system does not automatically conferr statehood to conquered territories. Land taken during war is organized as federally administrated territories and can only become a State by act of Congress and vote of the people within the territory. Until then, those people are American nationals, but not citizens.

So colonizing whitey lol they are gonna love that. They would still flood into Alaska and the continental US by the 10's if not 100's of thousands and vote overwhelmingly Republican.

 

[jalopy]

LOL the lib elite isn't going to want a bunch of white, far-right Siberian gopniks voting in US elections.

Maybe they'll see the communist party's vote share in Siberia. And this is with glorious United Russia fortification!

I had also completely forgotten Shoygu was also the head of United Russia.

 

[DumbDude43]

Except due to miniaturization & the accuracy which can be attained with an FPV (or even a standard Mavic), payloads don't need to be huge anymore; the military uses overkill because they can. But tiny (comparitively) warhead the size/power of a grenade or EFP is more than adequate for a cartel hit. And in many parts of the world outside of the US, things that go boom can be picked up like apples by those resourceful & intent enough. Combine that with doorstep or 3D printed availability of everything else & it's somewhat of a nightmare scenario.

And hell you don't even need specialized drone parts anymore; I've even seen a drone sperg build one from a hand-made frame, a cheap doorbell camera, cannibalised rotary motors & scavenged remote toy controller & batteries, then he made the FPV goggles by folding up some cardboard and taping the LCD screen from a refrigerator to it. Altogether I think he said it cost less than $20, but it had more than enough power to stunt & tote a Go-Pro around. The biggest limiting factor (3 years ago) was the range, both in battery life & transmission distance. And if some internet sperg can do it, I'd bet someone like Myanmar rebels could build the same just as easily (if they needed to).

cartels dont need to bother with any of this shit, they can (and regularly do) simply send a handful of violent dudes to murder whoever they want dead

but youre right, drones could potentially be a big deal for targeted assassinations against high profile targets (it's probably easier to fly a drone into the presidents bedroom through the window rather than break into his house and shoot him yourself)
but we're not seeing a lot of those sadly, barely any at all

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

Chaos Ending. The USA actually prevails in the grand rivalry with Russia and the Russian Empire at last dies. Russia, desperate to preserve stability in the core around Moscow and west of the Urals, abandons the far east Colonies. Who will jump first to fill the vacuum. The USA or China.

China. They will fool the remaining elderly remnants that the USSR is back.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Except due to miniaturization & the accuracy which can be attained with an FPV (or even a standard Mavic), payloads don't need to be huge anymore; the military uses overkill because they can. But tiny (comparitively) warhead the size/power of a grenade or EFP is more than adequate for a cartel hit. And in many parts of the world outside of the US, things that go boom can be picked up like apples by those resourceful & intent enough. Combine that with doorstep or 3D printed availability of everything else & it's somewhat of a nightmare scenario.

And hell you don't even need specialized drone parts anymore; I've even seen a drone sperg build one from a hand-made frame, a cheap doorbell camera, cannibalised rotary motors & scavenged remote toy controller & batteries, then he made the FPV goggles by folding up some cardboard and taping the LCD screen from a refrigerator to it. Altogether I think he said it cost less than $20, but it had more than enough power to stunt & tote a Go-Pro around. The biggest limiting factor (3 years ago) was the range, both in battery life & transmission distance. And if some internet sperg can do it, I'd bet someone like Myanmar rebels could build the same just as easily (if they needed to).

American Samoa. The Samoan people are a subject nation of the USA. But one that cannot immigrate. And they cannot vote. The only way for a Samoan to become a US citizen is complete a term of service in the US military. Consequently, Samoa has the highest per capita rate of military service of any sovereignty subject to the laws of the USA.

The fun part about being a federally administrated territory is the US Federal government gets to set the terms. And Samoa being one of the more recent acquisitions gets to be a literal bitch.

Bet nobody here knew how fucking horrific the USA treated the American Nationals on one of its Pacific Conquests. In my humble opinion the number of sons Samoa has sent to die in service of our bullshit wars is proof enough of their worth for Statehood, or to at least be added to Hawaii.

But alas they remain a useful satrapy, and the liberal order thanks them for it. They got a Disney Movie where their founding God was a loveable goof helping the strong female character.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Spoiler: this war is autistic

 

[Standardized Profile]

American Samoa. The Samoan people are a subject nation of the USA. But one that cannot immigrate. And they cannot vote. The only way for a Samoan to become a US citizen is complete a term of service in the US military.

They have to live in a state, DC, or any other territory for three months and they're eligible. No military service required, just have to get on a plane, sign a short lease, pay fees, know English, and pass a simple test. It's a bit onerous, but it's also pretty useless for most American Samoans since it doesn't offer much of a benefit over American nationality.

 

[mindlessobserver]

They have to live in a state, DC, or any other territory for three months and they're eligible. No military service required, just have to get on a plane, sign a short lease, pay fees, know English, and pass a simple test. It's a bit onerous, but it's also pretty useless for most American Samoans since it doesn't offer much of a benefit over American nationality.

Samoans are barred by law from immigrating to the USA.

Pursuant to Title 8, U.S.C, American Samoans are resident Aliens of the USA living on the Federally Administrated territory of American Samoa. They can hold US visas for the purposes of international travel but are denied US Passports. They cannot move to the continental USA or establish residency on any US State without a green card.

Consider Nevadas dispute with the Beureau of Land Management, multiply it by 1,000, and you have American Samoa. But remember! Their creator God was the loveable goof in a Disney Movie, and they can play in the NFL!

 

[draggs]

Normie News has caught up with us.

lol even peskov was like dass fukt up yo

before autistically screeching IT'S NAWT TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[Snekposter]

Imagine if Georgia started wildin' and reclaiming its territory from the Red Menace.

There's a non-zero chance some of the aid gets diverted to Georgia, either by Ukraine deciding they can spare it or by glowies. I mean, would be a real shame if the Georgians decided that since Russia is distracted with Ukraine to settle the Ossetian question in their favor. Before anyone asks about shipment, it shares a land border with Turkey, and wouldn't you know it but Turkey and Russia have some outstanding beefs of their own...

Turkey is also a NATO member, and its not exactly inconceivable that given their problems with Sweden the USA offers a bribe of military aid to convince Erdogan to accept them in, and everyone knows how corrupt the Second World is.

 

[The Fountainhead]

Russian police detained Darya Trepova, suspected in bringing a statue with explosives that killed Russian propagandist Vladlen Tatarsky.

 

[LeChampion1992]

a drone by itself is just a toy. to make it dangerous you still need to do some old fashioned bomb-building, that's where the bottleneck is.
i don't think the drone is a big deal for civilian terrorism. using your homemade bomb by itself or as a car bomb will get you the same results. better actually, cause civilian drones only cary a small payload (they can't lift a lot of weight) while a car has no such restrictions (mcveigh crammed like two tons of anfo into his truck)

The reason why drones will be used more in the future is because they're cheap and can easily handle a few pounds of C4 and shrapnel and become far more destructive especially to crowds of people.
It's horrific to say but one should put themselves in the mindset of a terrorist and mass shooter and think about potential threats if you want to have a good idea what the next weapons and terror attacks will be like.
I also use this mindset to think of escape routes and think about cover, concealment and etc.... Because in America while most of us will be lucky and probably never be in that situation, it never hurts to think about these situations without losing your mind.

 

[Ghostse]

There's a non-zero chance some of the aid gets diverted to Georgia, either by Ukraine deciding they can spare it or by glowies. I mean, would be a real shame if the Georgians decided that since Russia is distracted with Ukraine to settle the Ossetian question in their favor. Before anyone asks about shipment, it shares a land border with Turkey, and wouldn't you know it but Turkey and Russia have some outstanding beefs of their own...

Turkey is also a NATO member, and its not exactly inconceivable that given their problems with Sweden the USA offers a bribe of military aid to convince Erdogan to accept them in, and everyone knows how corrupt the Second World is.

I don't remember how Georgia/Turkey relations are, but Turkey while they know what side their bread is buttered, the Turkroaches are definitely all about playing both sides. While they are locking down the Bosporus, they are also letting a lot of shit ship over the boarder to the Ruskies and providing a much-needed life line to their economy.

I guess the other thing is even if Georgia gave a final solution to the Ossetian question, they would have to know its only a matter of time till Russia comes back - so they'd need to go full NATO to hold it. Which would be some serious, serious Whew Lad.

I'm also not up on my Georgia politics, I just know there were member of the Coalition of the Willing and pretty solid guys until they suddenly needed to up and run home cause Ivan was going on a tear. Given they'd been there for a few years if they were going to NATO I would have figured they'd have done so then. And I believe someone had told me politics post-invasion went to a decidely more "Russia Appeasement" bent.