Chinese Military Operations in Taiwan

[Chongqing]

It really wasn’t a trick, I’ve known some Ukranians for years and they hate Russians because of the Soviet Union. With Taiwanese they generally don’t want to be controlled by the CCP but they don’t have the same visceral hatred that many Slavic people have of each other.

Not to get too off topic, but you'd think the Ukranians would have shown some self preservation during the last 9 years. I don't think every Ukranian hated Russians enough to have their country destroyed, but here we are.

 

[Random Internet Person]

CHINA SIZES UP TAIWAN​

Cartoon published 04/13/2023

Stolen elections have consequences. China can smell the weakness of Resident Biden, a confused, doddering old man who is being guided by marxist zealots. It’s no wonder President Xi is getting ready to make his move on Taiwan. Xi and his communist party have long set their eyes on the democratic and flourishing island. The Chicoms consider Taiwan to be part of China.

Many other countries around the world have acknowledged this condition by refusing to recognize Taiwan as an independent country. Defeated by Mao in 1949, the nationalist forces of Chiang Kai-shek retreated to Taiwan and named it “The Republic of China.” In a weird way, it could be said Taiwan is the legitimate government of China while the Chicom party remain the rebels.

Last week Beijing launched military exercises and simulated an full-scale attack on Taiwan. As Xi’s power has grown, reuniting the island with mainland China has been one of his priorities. Unification by force, that is.

China has had its eye on Taiwan’s very lucrative semiconductor industry and does not want to risk destroying the manufacturing plants. So Xi has to walk a very tenuous line when it comes to starting a war with Taiwan. Taiwan is also capable of delivering counterpunches which could risk sparking unrest in China’s already frustrated population.

Will Xi attack Taiwan? We think he most likely will. After all, Biden has been bribed by China. He allowed a Chicom spy balloon to cross America and spy on our military installations. Biden and his debilitated military are showing great weakness. Too many resources have been funneled (and wasted) in Ukraine. Our borders are wide open. It’s almost as if Biden is welcoming Xi’s attack.

We live in a very dangerous time, thanks to Joe Biden.

—GrrrTeam

 

[Fatniggo1488]

>he thinks china is ever straightforward
>he takes some video released by chinas military at face value
>he doesnt realize this in itself could be a psychological warfare feint
>"ah yes roundeye, our missires suck. no need to worry about us hehe"

The US has provably lied to me more than China. And there's no logical reason to demolish what they consider to be China, and have vital manufacturing plants. This isn't a US military action against some camel riders half a world away. This is the equivalent of the US nuking Florida.

Tbh I don't even think it meant much, or reflected any actual capabilities. It looks like it was just meant to be a cool video militaries put out hoping to look bad ass.

 

[Mukhrani]

Can you elaborate on the "many small islands owned by Taiwan" part? How is that any different than "Taiwan is an island owned by China"? All of it is just "China".

These are all part of Taiwan administratively, and are under their political control. Taking them would be a form of 'salami tactics' - we aren't going to send our navy under multiple layers of missile defenses to defend a couple of rocks, but once that line is crossed then its difficult to justify drawing a new one. Does Taiwan have territorial sovereignty, or does China own it? International consequences driven by the US would also be difficult, as we don't even ourselves officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation under the One China policy. The Chinese building bases and militarily reinforcing these rocks also wouldn't really be an outright violation of anything, since according to us they own them - it's not like Crimea, where most of the world disputed Russia's claims, or the Donbass. And once they had secured all of them, it would make a blockade pretty easy, and outside intervention even more difficult.

You can see how enemy control of Penghu would be particularly problematic for anyone trying to defend Taiwan and keep it supplied.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

as we don't even ourselves officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation under the One China policy.

This is a critical point that not many people even know.

"We do not support Taiwan independence." That is official US policy directly from the State Dept's web site:

https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/

 

[cybertoaster]

View attachment 5040157

You better not hide when the draft officers show up at your mom's house.

then why haven't they just done that already?

Semiconductors is probably the most complicated form of industrial manufacturing today, are you so dense to think you can just pick it up and move it?

Building a modern semiconductor plant can take as long (and as much) as building a nuclear reactor. That's why taiwan's government put so much money on this, because they new it would make them a vital asset.

Ukranians still stood and fought.

Because the government locked all borders and forbade all men from leaving the country.

Taiwanese men would find it hard to leave if they wanted to.

If you close the borders and airports sure, its not like they can swim to japan or whatever, tho many ukrainian men tried (and still try) to illegally cross the border to escape the meatgrinder.

and more vital to modern armies

Milspec chips are ridiculously outdated, the most advanced one in service its the IBM/BAE RAD750 which is the same chip the first iMacs used 1998. The F16 runs on a 16bit computer which is even older, why? because they don't need to render 3D anime titties games, they do far simpler stuff but unlike a game console that will shit the bed if you look at it funny these things have to be able to work in any condition, any temperature and insane levels of radioactivity.

But if this war happens it will fuck up the economy because much of it runs on the latest chips now, specially finance.

Guys but they have the Next Generation fighter just like Russia has its next Generation fighter which has not been seen in the entire Ukrainian conflict

You keep doing retarded takes, the J20 is nothing like the Su57 which is not even operational and has but a handful of units. The J20 is actually in service and they got between 150 and 200 in service, which is as much if not more than how many F22 we have.

Weapons? They've exported a shit ton.

Yeah, the cheap stuff like the one you posted, I was talking the high-end like their planes.

Tbh I don't even think it meant much, or reflected any actual capabilities. It looks like it was just meant to be a cool video militaries put out hoping to look bad ass.

That video was cringe years ago and its still cringe now.

 

[Susanna]

Milspec chips are ridiculously outdated, the most advanced one in service its the IBM/BAE RAD750 which is the same chip the first iMacs used 1998. The F16 runs on a 16bit computer which is even older, why? because they don't need to render 3D anime titties games, they do far simpler stuff but unlike a game console that will shit the bed if you look at it funny these things have to be able to work in any condition, any temperature and insane levels of radioactivity.

I don’t mean the chips that go into the actual war equipment, I meant the chips behind the front lines. The computer the officer in the field uses is a hardened thing comparable to what was in use about two decades ago, as are the electronics in the night vision goggles etc, but behind the lines you’ll find essentially consumer-grade 14nm. Intel Core 6th gen etc. They’re basically just standard business laptops. Every single back door the CIA built into them wide open. Guess why China and Russia are so desperate to get government offices off of western-designed x86 that even crummy domestic VLIW is considered a preferable option. I can’t imagine the western militaries are much more confident in the silicon than we are, and the US steadfast continues not giving them any reason to trust them.

 

[Crex Crex]

Shit like this has convinced me that we really do need a Nanking rape 2.0, except this time it should be extended to every single place where chingchongs live.

 

[SIMIΔN]

These are all part of Taiwan administratively, and are under their political control. Taking them would be a form of 'salami tactics' - we aren't going to send our navy under multiple layers of missile defenses to defend a couple of rocks, but once that line is crossed then its difficult to justify drawing a new one. Does Taiwan have territorial sovereignty, or does China own it? International consequences driven by the US would also be difficult, as we don't even ourselves officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation under the One China policy. The Chinese building bases and militarily reinforcing these rocks also wouldn't really be an outright violation of anything, since according to us they own them - it's not like Crimea, where most of the world disputed Russia's claims, or the Donbass. And once they had secured all of them, it would make a blockade pretty easy, and outside intervention even more difficult.

View attachment 5046446

You can see how enemy control of Penghu would be particularly problematic for anyone trying to defend Taiwan and keep it supplied.

Those outlying islands have hundreds of thousands of residents, it's not quite Crimea, correct, but no one wants of repeat of that precedent.

 

[Coffee Mugshot]

This is a critical point that not many people even know.

"We do not support Taiwan independence." That is official US policy directly from the State Dept's web site:

https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-taiwan/

The US 'One China' policy is more accurately stated as 'no unilateral changes by either side'. That means if China invades, the US gets involved. If Taiwan suddenly declares independence without US backing, Taiwan is on its own.

Larger section of your quote:

We oppose any unilateral changes to the status quo from either side; we do not support Taiwan independence; and we expect cross-Strait differences to be resolved by peaceful means. We continue to have an abiding interest in peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait. Consistent with the Taiwan Relations Act, the United States makes available defense articles and services as necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capability -– and maintains our capacity to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of Taiwan.

If mainland China wants Taiwan back, all they have to do is make the union appealing enough that Taiwanese vote for it and America will fuck off. At the moment Taiwanese prefer the status quo.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

The US 'One China' policy is more accurately stated as 'no unilateral changes by either side'. That means if China invades, the US gets involved. If Taiwan suddenly declares independence without US backing, Taiwan is on its own.

Larger section of your quote:


If mainland China wants Taiwan back, all they have to do is make the union appealing enough that Taiwanese vote for it and America will fuck off. At the moment Taiwanese prefer the status quo.

Six words. Not hard.

"We do not support Taiwan independence."

There is nothing to "invade". There is no "wanting Taiwan back." Taiwan is already China, that's official US policy. If US policy was any of what you just typed then why don't they say that instead?

 

[Coffee Mugshot]

If US policy was any of what you just typed then why don't they say that instead?

Because glass-hearted ultranationalist mainlanders would piss and shit themselves if the glaringly obvious were stated in un-diplomatic terms. Being antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic is how mainlaind Chinese diplomats operate, not how US diplomats (typically) operate.

 

[SaidNoOneEver]

Because glass-hearted ultranationalist mainlanders would piss and shit themselves if the glaringly obvious were stated in un-diplomatic terms. Being antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic is how mainlaind Chinese diplomats operate, not how US diplomats (typically) operate.

So we're the Good Guys and our official stated policy is just a bunch of lies (again). Because that's how the Good Guys roll, or something. You don't think China and the rest of the world don't know that by now? That's why the rest of the emerging world is running away from us as fast as they can.

You're deluded if you think this has anything to do with our love for democracy or the wonderful people of Taiwan. We overthrow democracies and kill wonderful people every day. This has everything to do with a bunch of very rich people who might take a hit on their portfolio and I don't think its worth WWIII to preserve their status.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Yeah, the cheap stuff like the one you posted, I was talking the high-end like their planes.

How about full on frigates? They do infact export weapons. Don't get me started on anti ship missiles, Iraq shot plenty at us in the Gulf War.

 

[Rei is Shit.]

LOL tell me again how attack helicopters are doing in Ukraine?

What does that have to do with that guy severely underestimating the size of Chinas helicopter force?

The J20 is actually in service and they got between 150 and 200 in service, which is as much if not more than how many F22 we have.

There are ~130 F-22s in actual combat units and the rest are dedicated to training. If that sounds like too many, don't worry, the Air Force is considering scrapping ~20 F-22s because the upgrade costs are too high.

So we're the Good Guys and our official stated policy is just a bunch of lies (again). Because that's how the Good Guys roll, or something. You don't think China and the rest of the world don't know that by now? That's why the rest of the emerging world is running away from us as fast as they can.

You're deluded if you think this has anything to do with our love for democracy or the wonderful people of Taiwan. We overthrow democracies and kill wonderful people every day. This has everything to do with a bunch of very rich people who might take a hit on their portfolio and I don't think its worth WWIII to preserve their status.

Taiwan was literally a military dictatorship for decades complete with disappearing political dissidents in the night. It didn't stop the US from supporting them. The #1 priority of the US is "does this country do what we tell them to?"

 

[Coffee Mugshot]

So we're the Good Guys and our official stated policy is just a bunch of lies (again). Because that's how the Good Guys roll, or something. You don't think China and the rest of the world don't know that by now? That's why the rest of the emerging world is running away from us as fast as they can.

You're deluded if you think this has anything to do with our love for democracy or the wonderful people of Taiwan. We overthrow democracies and kill wonderful people every day. This has everything to do with a bunch of very rich people who might take a hit on their portfolio and I don't think its worth WWIII to preserve their status.

The Taiwanese set up a nice white enclave in a black neighborhood and now the mainland blacks are looking at the nice shit their white neighbors have built up over the decades and are saying 'gibs me dat'. The Taiwanese have every right to refuse letting those people into their neighborhood until they learn to behave better. The US isn't controlling how the Taiwanese vote. They can choose to give up their wealth, safety, and independence whenever they want.

 

[Betonhaus]

I did create a safe space thread when I created this one, it may be time to start using it. Except it seems to have been deleted.

 

[Male Idiot]

I hope China marches in and cucks Biden, mutt seething is always delicious.

Communism is better than US fagmunism.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

The Taiwanese set up a nice white enclave in a black neighborhood and now the mainland blacks are looking at the nice shit their white neighbors have built up over the decades and are saying 'gibs me dat'. The Taiwanese have every right to refuse letting those people into their neighborhood until they learn to behave better. The US isn't controlling how the Taiwanese vote. They can choose to give up their wealth, safety, and independence whenever they want.

You forgot the part where USAID basically paid to build that enclave and how they're just as black as the mainlanders, except the US has been pissing in their ears that they're not.

 

[RodgerDodger]

people have some pretty major misunderstandings about how amphibious landings work. Once a beach head has been established, that's the end of the amphibious operations, and from that point on, pretty much any ship can be used to bring in more forces and equipment.

Dear Lord. So much fucking wrong in your post. In order for things to work as you say the agressor must first establish 100% air and sea superiority. This in particular is the thing that has paniced the Chinese Military after watching Ukraine. The Russians have yet to establish air supperiority over a small poorly equipped air force and air defense network. Taiwan has one of the worlds best air forces and an air defense network second to none.

If you don't control the air and sea your ships vulnerability remains. It doesn't end when you establish a beachead. Further modern precision strike artillery systems makes establishing and holding ghat beachhead much more difficult. Traditionally if you can clear the artillery from a few miles around your beachhead you can dig in and start major operations. But no more with shit like HIMARS raining down on you.

And Taiwan is a difficult target to land on. (And one that the US extensively studied for years). There are really only 3 or 4 viable landing points. Everything else is untenable. Leading into marshland or impassable terrain. So Taiwan knows where China has to land. They don't have to spread forces on every mile of beach.

Furgher the Straights of Taiwan become the happy hunting ground for Submarines. An invasion of Taiwan is likely to draw a coalition response. Apart from Taiwans own Navy you could and would see US, Japanese Korean and Australian subs. China's Navy has gotten good. But not that good. This makes crossing the Taiwan Straight not simply a military but a political challenge. And betting wrong on the neighbors response would have horrifying consequences for the PLA/PLN.

As for using regular ships. Yes and no. Most still need some form of harbor or dock facility. China did some drills with this a year or two ago. It's possible but not really ready for prime time. And falls apart without air and sea superiority.

TLDR. Watching the Russian's shit the bed is causing the PLA to panic rethink all their assumptions about crossing the Taiwan Straight.