Tesla Hate Thread - oh and come seethe about EVs in general with me

[Markass the Worst]

Friend of the farms Louis Rossmann goes over how Tesla employees are sharing clips of naked people around and laughing about it, and are being sued for it.

 

[Thiletonomics]

The ongoing price wars that BYD (and other Chinese auto makers) are having, in response to Tesla's price cuts, and Warren Buffet reducing his shares in BYD, appears to be hurting their revenue, to the point that they had to start doing layoffs and cutting back worker salaries:

Given that Ford's EV division isn't profitable yet, how badly are the auto makers with EV divisions that have even worse revenue than the likes of Ford?

The Tesla Cybertruck will have a really large and dumb-looking wiper. (Archived)

And Tesla's infograph about how EVs have less maintenance than ICE vehicles, is unsurprisingly, misleading. (Archived) The article also doesn't mention the much higher insurance costs for Teslas, compared to other vehicles, and the costs of the replacement parts (namely the battery and motors).

 

[Quindoll]

Hey I work in the fuel industry, and for the most part no one is worried about EVs. Maybe in 25 years of the tech becomes more viable, but there’s simply not enough lithium to replace all the cars on the road. And even then, what about the semi trucks out there? Diesel is a huge chunk of our sakes.

Even then, we make our money off of credit card fees. So if we put an EV charging station in every gas station, we’re still making money one way or the other. Probably more so since it takes hours to charge and people need to buy something to drink while they’re waiting.

This reads like an early 2000 annual report of an US coal based electricity company. Where do you get the confidence from to look 25 years into the future?

A declining share of the customer base, even a little, should be a high concern if your margins are so low that you make your money from payment fees. Especially since I rate it very optimistic that people will largely load their car at the traditional gas station and not at home, during shopping or during their work.

Well, good luck.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Given that Ford's EV division isn't profitable yet, how badly are the auto makers with EV divisions that have even worse revenue than the likes of Ford?

It's like countries forcing businesses to create new divisions out of the aether is catastrophically bad and near sighted.

And Tesla's infograph about how EVs have less maintenance than ICE vehicles, is unsurprisingly, misleading

ICE user: "A part in my car is broken, fixing it will take half a day and 200$".
EV user: "A part in my car is broken, time to buy a new car".

 

[Sam Losco]

ICE user: "A part in my car is broken, fixing it will take half a day and 200$".
EV user: "A part in my car is broken, time to buy a new car".

ICE user: "Shit, need to get gas, let me pull into this gas station, be back on the road in like 5 minutes."
EV user: "Shit, battery is almost dead, let me pull into this charger and sit there for an hour+ while I wait for it to recharge."

 

[Betonhaus]

I wish range extenders were more commonplace. Like if it was an option on Teslas, or even if you could get a little generator on a trailer or RVs with built in range extenders. But noooo it's all or nothing with these people.

 

[FiddleAFox]

I wish range extenders were more commonplace. Like if it was an option on Teslas, or even if you could get a little generator on a trailer or RVs with built in range extenders. But noooo it's all or nothing with these people.

Issue with range extenders is the fact that it'll add FAR more weight to your vehicle, therefore cause your vehicle to not get nearly as much range compared to getting an auxiliary gas tank on your pickup truck that won't weigh things down by 500lbs.

 

[Betonhaus]

Issue with range extenders is the fact that it'll add FAR more weight to your vehicle, therefore cause your vehicle to not get nearly as much range compared to getting an auxiliary gas tank on your pickup truck that won't weigh things down by 500lbs.

What if you took out 75% of the batteries on models with the range extender?

 

[God's drunkest driver]

The Tesla Cybertruck will have a really large and dumb-looking wiper. (Archived)

The entire design of the cybertruck is borderline retarded. There's a reason cars don't look like that, and it isn't that smart people haven't tried to yet.

>But they made production advances and it's going to be simple to build!
It's simple to build a Yugo too, that doesn't make it not a piece of shit.
>But it's made of cold rolled stainless steel and has vandalproof glass!
The glass failed in its demo and good luck repairing unpainted stainless steel body panels in a way that looks acceptable when they need it. No, Elon's stupid demo on stage has no bearing on its durability in a fender bender or even parking lot speed collision, those panels will bend and they won't be economical to repair since stainless steel is hard to work with and welding it in a pleasing way is a high-skill task. Stainless is even harder to weld repair than aluminum.

I wish range extenders were more commonplace. Like if it was an option on Teslas, or even if you could get a little generator on a trailer or RVs with built in range extenders. But noooo it's all or nothing with these people.

The presence of a range extender probably disqualifies a car from the extremely beneficial regulatory status of EV, and undoubtedly would require a large engineering effort since it would have to meet safety and emissions requirements.

 

[FiddleAFox]

What if you took out 75% of the batteries on models with the range extender?

You're probably better off just getting a small motorcycle ICE with a gas tank to charge up the battery, but oops, seems BMW attempted that already and that failed miserably as well.

 

[DavidS877]

Issue with range extenders is the fact that it'll add FAR more weight to your vehicle, therefore cause your vehicle to not get nearly as much range compared to getting an auxiliary gas tank on your pickup truck that won't weigh things down by 500lbs

The pickups already weigh in at astoundingly high weights. The Chevy at 9000lbs, so a 500lb generator is not likely to make the range too much worse as they're already inefficient as hell..
The Tesla model 3 is about 0.25kWh/mile. The Chevy Pickup is about 0.5kWh/mile.
Looks like a 10KW generator(probably about 400-500lbs generator+fuel+mount) could add about 120 miles on a 400 mile pickup over 6 hours driving.
I know both Ford and RAM are talking about range extenders for their pickups, but I don't know that either has any more information than speculation at this point.

 

[DeadwastePrime]

ICE user: "Shit, need to get gas, let me pull into this gas station, be back on the road in like 5 minutes."
EV user: "Shit, battery is almost dead, let me pull into this charger and sit there for an hour+ while I wait for it to recharge."

its closer to 20 or so minutes nowadays to reach about 85% due to advancements in fast charging. still a decently long amount of time but it'll likely go down in time as r&d helps advance the whole ev thing eventually

ICE user: "A part in my car is broken, fixing it will take half a day and 200$".
EV user: "A part in my car is broken, time to buy a new car".

at some point in the future, its gonna be harder and harder to repair older cars as people hold onto their old cars while the market is inevitably filled with the modern cars with less replaceable parts and stuff. plus there are modern ice cars that act exactly like the ev car market where some part is gonna cost a shit ton of money. see the infotainment systems in modern cars
not to mention there will probably be a day where ice cars arent allowed on the roads, relegated to racing and off road use and its only a matter of time before this happens

 

[FraudFrog]

This reads like an early 2000 annual report of an US coal based electricity company. Where do you get the confidence from to look 25 years into the future?

A declining share of the customer base, even a little, should be a high concern if your margins are so low that you make your money from payment fees. Especially since I rate it very optimistic that people will largely load their car at the traditional gas station and not at home, during shopping or during their work.

Well, good luck.

Literally a team of lawyers and consultants looked into this, billion dollar companies try their very best to read out as far as they can. They’re not always right, but they can see where the wind is turning. And right now, EVs aren’t a concern.

Now what you said right there “at home” majority of Americans don’t own a home. Look at any major apartment complex and most residents can’t even park in the same spot each night. How would they even consider charging their cars? Even if an apartment complex loads each spot with a charger, who’s gonna pay for that infrastructure? It’s not just dropping the chargers in place, it’s the wiring, new conduits, everything to make sure all those chargers can charge at the same time and not blow out the power to the whole block. Otherwise there’s a lot of people who won’t be able to go to work the next day.

EVs are just feel good toys for those who can afford them. I would personally consider getting a hybrid, but I don’t trust a full EV, and I think many Americans feel the same way.

Regarding margins, it’s complex, there’s a lot that goes into the business, but payment fees are a part of it and increase our margins. Say in 10 years 25% of cars on the road are EVs, we will just adjust and continue to be profitable. Whether that’s adjusting fees, increasing fuel volumes in other ways like concentrating more on diesel, or hey installing chargers at stations. And as it is, it’s a rare site to see a charger at a station, but I see rows and rows of empty ones at the mall.

But right now, 25% in even 25 years seems like a pipe dream.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Polestar decided to not even include a rear glass on it's upcoming Polestar 4 model:



Never have I thought that a car company would cost cut in this manner.

 

[Betonhaus]

EVs are just feel good toys for those who can afford them. I would personally consider getting a hybrid, but I don’t trust a full EV, and I think many Americans feel the same way.

I thought the Ford Maverick hybrid was sweet, but I'm not in a position to justify a new vehicle.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

at some point in the future, its gonna be harder and harder to repair older cars as people hold onto their old cars while the market is inevitably filled with the modern cars with less replaceable parts and stuff. plus there are modern ice cars that act exactly like the ev car market where some part is gonna cost a shit ton of money. see the infotainment systems in modern cars
not to mention there will probably be a day where ice cars arent allowed on the roads, relegated to racing and off road use and its only a matter of time before this happens

You are correct, but only because it's a manufactured crisis. The eu/usa can just force companies to publish 3d printing of replacement parts for cars they stop supporting, but god forbid we do anything to actually help the environment. Though with ICE cars you can probably find parts close enough for anything that isn't electrical.

But like others are saying, unless the world start electrifying every in-city road like it's the video game Quarantine, either EV hype dies out, or we're going straight into the middle age with the freedom of movement.

 

[Higgs Bonbon]

Trying to run any large vehice off electricity without an utra high density energy storage medium is fucking retarded. Grifters couldn't even wait until sodium batteries are sorted out before pushing their overpriced and overengineered tat on people.

 

[FiddleAFox]

not to mention there will probably be a day where ice cars arent allowed on the roads, relegated to racing and off road use and its only a matter of time before this happens

This is why losers with garbage takes like this everywhere makes it seem like there's really nothing you can do to change anything, when the reality is that you can change things if you try hard enough.

 

[Zyklon Ben's Poison Pen]

its closer to 20 or so minutes nowadays to reach about 85% due to advancements in fast charging. still a decently long amount of time but it'll likely go down in time as r&d helps advance the whole ev thing eventually

Right so, no. Fast charging murders the battery, its not going to get much better and you are shortening the life of your battery every time you do this.

at some point in the future, its gonna be harder and harder to repair older cars as people hold onto their old cars while the market is inevitably filled with the modern cars with less replaceable parts and stuff. plus there are modern ice cars that act exactly like the ev car market where some part is gonna cost a shit ton of money. see the infotainment systems in modern cars

Yep, personally I think we are already here. We'll see if there is pushback in the market to level this off or not.

not to mention there will probably be a day where ice cars arent allowed on the roads, relegated to racing and off road use and its only a matter of time before this happens

lol no, there are massive logistical and material constraints that will kill this stupid pipe dream dead. Given that EV's can't and will never be able to tow for shit kills this off even more.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

Never have I thought that a car company would cost cut in this manner.

I don't think this is a cost cutting decision, this stupid class of vehicles "coupe SUVs" has basically zero rearward visibility as a design consequence. The rear window is at a very shallow angle, it's high above the ground, and it's flanked by a kammback.

Unless you put glass in the rear hatch like a first gen insight, you aren't going to see much out of the rear end of a car designed this way, the SUV's seats are in the way of that being a useful option, you basically won't be able to see anything but sky or a big truck out of the rear window of the "coupe SUV". Excessive camera use is an unavoidable consequence of modern automotive design, where visibility seems to not even be a design consideration.