Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

I’d rather not go into another long and detailed response, so I’ll just say that I found things beyond just that in both those areas, at least in my experience.

But I too wouldn’t have minded a bit more added.
 
Nigger they had 6 years and monolith even made a team dedicated to deal with the zeldafaggots so they wouldn't fuck xeno 3 and the best they could come up with was skyloft.....but no dogshit flying and an actual wasteland.....but you can't see shit
To add to this, Monolith made Xenoblade X, one of the largest open world games out there (I think still to this day) in 4 years, and then the last year of that they were already starting work on Xenoblade 2, which took around 3 years, then they remastered the first game with a complete visual overhaul and ported it to their new engine (not a small amount of work, the Xenoblade X onward engine is completely different, Xenoblade 1 used standard Nintendo tools while their HD engine is from the ground up using Criware intermediary tools), and then they finished Xenoblade 3 2 years after that, announcing it months before release even. This isn't even including doing all this while half the company outsourced work to Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, Skyward Sword AND BotW, and of course they did 25 hour expansions for both Xenoblade 2 and Xenoblade 3 in less than a year. Nintendo has no excuse when they are being BTFO by their own subsidiary. They made Torna, Xenoblade 1 remaster and Xenoblade 3 PLUS the 25 hour expansion all in the time it took for TotK to release.

Halo 2, the version we got, was made in 12 months. The reason I say the 6 years is a sign of troubled development is because it took them that long to get something that should have taken 2 or 3 years at most to come out. It's similar to Halo Infinite, except the final result isn't a broken mess. A game can be polished and rate highly and still have troubled development. I just fail to see what took them 6 years.
 
Given how even other developers are scratching their heads wondering how the game managed to have all the physics and environmental interactions work without major bugs, I’m guessing a lot of work went into that area. Especially since, if I recall correctly, the game was actually finished in 2022, with the last year being for ironing out as many glitches as they could (whether they succeeded or not depends on your experience). Xenoblade doesn’t have to worry about those sorts of mechanics, as its environments, while detailed, don’t have the same level of interactivity.

I do understand why some would be expecting more after all this time, and heck, like I said, I wouldn’t have minded that either. But as a fan of BOTW, I was satisfied with what TOTK offered.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: SSj_Ness (Yiffed)
Given how even other developers are scratching their heads wondering how the game managed to have all the physics and environmental interactions work without major bugs, I’m guessing a lot of work went into that area
It's just Havok physics, the work would just be in tweaking the forces. I could get physics stuff like that being hard a decade or two ago, but not really anymore. All the objects have pretty standard collision, and the only constraints are non-rigid, its the same sort of constraints KSP uses for rockets. At most I can see work being done to optimize collisions and stuff, but considering how fast things vanish into thin air seems like there isn't much room to work with. I also think the fact the game had a day 1 patch after the game supposedly having a year of polish is suspect. Someone else argued it was some malicious thing to punish pirates, but I don't see them doing that, and Metroid Prime Remastered was finished years ago and that didn't get any patches.

I've seen people compare the physics to Gmod when they say how it doesn't glitch out or anything, but Gmod is using an ancient version of Havok forked by Valve called vPhysics, which is two decades old at this point, the same age as the ancient version Bethesda was using for everything after Oblivion. Modern Havok is completely different and is used as the physics engine for pretty much everything AAA now. I could probably write a big long post about my observations of how the physics building stuff works, and the weapon merging system, but idk if that would interest anyone. I don't think its really as complex as people are making it out to be. But I am not an engineer, and my knowledge of physics engines is surface level. I could describe all the art stuff with high confidence though.
 
I’m guessing that there was a whole lot more done in order to make even the simplest of interactions not completely break the game, given all the contraptions one can create, along with making sure things like Ascend and Rewind worked properly.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: SSj_Ness (Yiffed)
Ascend and Rewind worked properly
Ascend is super simple, just check the space above the player for room then do an animation and move upwards to the specified position, rewind is probably more complex than a lot of the physics stuff. It requires tracking and saving the position of every physics object around the player for a pretty long time, probably lots of ways to optimize that though, and I assume they batch connected objects together, would have to check, I haven't played the game since May since I just found it boring. Probably in a similar vein to how Demos in Source work, or replays in Halo
 
Maybe so for the latter, but again, the scope of game development and the like have gotten far more complex than back in the N64 days.
Those were still the early days of 3D, and the N64 was pretty limited in a few ways, primarily cartridge space. I'm no programmer but I imagine that on average more actual work went into building 3D games than today. Either way, the disparity in quality and development time simply is too big to chalk up it just being more complicated now imo.

Man, I really am the odd one out when it comes to enjoying TOTK here aren’t I?
Maybe but I don't think anyone here hates TotK, it's just such huge missed potential, that seems to be the common sentiment. Even if it's good you can admit that, just objectively. That's what really disappoints me is how it could've been a real step forward, think what LttP was to LoZ, how it took that formula and fixed every problem and then added so much new.

TotK is definitely not an evolution in that vein, it's very much the glorified DLC it began as, even if it is good for what it is.

Once again, it really depends on whether or not you like the direction these games are taking.
There's even people who like BotW here who aren't thrilled that TotK is so bare bones. This isn't even about the direction they're taking Zelda in, it's what they're doing in that direction which is underwhelming. I think you said you wouldn't care if BotW3 reused the same gameplay and another modified version of the map, but a lot of people are going to find that lazy and repetitive to the extreme if they do, which would not surprise me.

I just fail to see what took them 6 years.
The only possibility that make sense, assuming it wasn't just troubled development, is holding it back for a planned Switch Pro which was heavily rumored but might have been cancelled for whatever reasons.
 
To add to this, Monolith made Xenoblade X, one of the largest open world games out there (I think still to this day) in 4 years, and then the last year of that they were already starting work on Xenoblade 2, which took around 3 years, then they remastered the first game with a complete visual overhaul and ported it to their new engine (not a small amount of work, the Xenoblade X onward engine is completely different, Xenoblade 1 used standard Nintendo tools while their HD engine is from the ground up using Criware intermediary tools), and then they finished Xenoblade 3 2 years after that, announcing it months before release even. This isn't even including doing all this while half the company outsourced work to Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, Skyward Sword AND BotW, and of course they did 25 hour expansions for both Xenoblade 2 and Xenoblade 3 in less than a year. Nintendo has no excuse when they are being BTFO by their own subsidiary. They made Torna, Xenoblade 1 remaster and Xenoblade 3 PLUS the 25 hour expansion all in the time it took for TotK to release.

Halo 2, the version we got, was made in 12 months. The reason I say the 6 years is a sign of troubled development is because it took them that long to get something that should have taken 2 or 3 years at most to come out. It's similar to Halo Infinite, except the final result isn't a broken mess. A game can be polished and rate highly and still have troubled development. I just fail to see what took them 6 years.
Nigga, Xenoblade 2 looked like a fucking PS2 game in places. Of course, Monolith's pace is truly exceptional and to be praised. But they are the exception. Its them, Fromsoft and absolutely nobody else who puts out quality games like that. A much better comparison would be the 3D Mario team which is going to end up taking even longer to release their sequel (they did help on the Capt. Toad and SM3DW ports, as a mitigating factor.) Or, outside of Nintendo, groups like Santa Monica Studio putting out two Gods of War in 5 years or Bethesda going 7 years between Fallout 4 and Starfield, id going 4 years between Doom and Doom 2.

7 years is normal, the longer side of normal but hey, thats Covid-era Nintendo for you and the game clearly progressed along a singular path with no great "reset point" in a manner that would actually hint at troubled development.
 
Last edited:
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: SSj_Ness (Yiffed)
None of these are really "scratching their heads". You made it sound like the physics was so complicated, other developers couldn't figure out how Nintendo got it to work. Most of these people are just saying the game is polished and well-designed. I don't think there's any question that most games Nintendo puts out are fairly polished. I think most people just find it a bit unbelievable it took six years of polishing a game built on a previously existing engine and world map to get it to the point it's at.

Personally I am not a game designer, but I have played a lot of games over the years, and I would disagree with how well designed the game is. My issues with the game are not bugs, per say. It feels like a lot of the mechanics have been made needlessly complicated through poor design choices, such as the arrow fusion mechanic having a needlessly cumbersome menu. Remember how everyone hated the Water Temple in Zelda 64 because of how needlessly complicated it was to take the iron boots on and off? TOTK feels like a whole game of that when I play it.

I also fundamentally don't find it that fun to stick a sail onto some logs to make a little sailboat, or stick logs together to make a little bridge. Stopping to do that disrupts the flow of the action, and I think it's be more fun if you just obtain an item through combat or puzzle solving or exploration that allows you to clear that gap. I much prefer the way BOTW handles a similar situation where there is a high ledge that gives you just enough high to glide across the gap, or a leaf nearby that generates wind to push a premade sailboat across the lake. I've just never enjoyed the Minecraft style experience where you build shit, and this game is no exception. I have a lot more fun killing a bunch of dudes and finding a cool weapon in a chest they were guarding than trying to build a cool weapon. This is entirely subjective, but affects my personal enjoyment of TOTK nonetheless.
 
Last edited:
I got through the fourth dungeon last night and also the subsequent mission to Hyrule Castle and it was pretty cool. The weird story nonsense is what it is but I liked Death Mountain and now I am starting to get more bold about exploring underground.

The next dungeon segment looks pretty cool, too. I love that they are using all of these landmarks I had questions about in Breath of the Wild. I like the way they section off areas underground, it makes me want to explore more in those directions which had paid off a couple times. It paid off a lot when I finally got into the Lost Woods.

Now that I am firmly in the mid-game I am going to go out and explore again and gather stuff.
 
First one is the only actual programmer in there, second one is a cinematic animator and writer, not an actual dev, third and fourth are a bunch of indies
 
  • Informative
Reactions: SSj_Ness (Yiffed)
What QOL additions besides that did you find missing?
The UI is so much worse. I hate the new wheel of powers when BOTW was handled the same as quick select weapons. It reeks of poor design.

The handling of the bow fusion was awfully implemented as only a few objects will ever be useful to put on the bow, yet your entire inventory is stacked, making you scroll to the thing you need. Bombs, fire fruit, electric fruit, ice fruit and bloom seeds should be placed together at the beginning of the menu if they want all objects usable, otherwise remove all the useless shit.

Sage powers are self explainatory. The sages just run off or don't appear (some caves such as Hyrule castle remove them) when you need them and Yunobo in particular is a detriment as any flying vehicle jolts downwards as he slams into it.

The removal of Revali's gale was also pretty shitty as Ascension does not work outside specific contexts. If you want an easy way to climb a mountain or some weirder objects, you are shit out of luck as ascension only functions in caves and very specific flat top surfaces.

Weapon durability is worse than BOTW and so is attack strength of enemies. I also feel like combat/dodging got worse

Korok puzzles got even more time consuming and they seem to appear less frequently than BOTW which is odd as there is 100 more and none are in the Depths.

You cannot put the hood down unless you complete the Hateno side quest and talk to the fashion woman, even though all artwork and promotional material has Link with the hood down. You also cannot put it back up without her.

Restrictions on clothing colors and leveling remain the same as BOTW, which is really stupid. Why can't I have a blue,yellow, red, purple, or pink version of classic Link.

Still no counter of objectives per region (at least give it for endgame or after a quest line) or even an outline remaining on the region after going to the tower.
 
All the weapons are rusted as an incentive to push you to fuse and grab non-rusted ones from the depths. There are no good weapons on the surface as all break very quickly even when fused, so have fun exploring the BOTW sized map you can't actually see.
Exploring the depths actually was very fun, a great part of the game.
 
Exploring the depths actually was very fun, a great part of the game.
Personally never got it. The Depths are annoying to explore to me due to the darkness. Even without that element it is one layout with nothing but enemy camps and the occasional Yiga stronghold or Zelda outfit. There just isn't much worthwhile content down there. I can understand enjoying the navigation through the dark, but it was just annoying to me.
 
Back