I respect transpeople - Change my mind

If you're not even going to agree to use the same version of the English language everyone else is using, why are you even trying to have arguments with people? You can just win them all by saying "Actually when you said X it really means Y according to the secret language that only I speak".

I'm sorry, but I don't see any way you're going to change anyone's mind by just making up your own definitions for words.
The words which you are basing this debate on are themselves problematic. I live in the US, many people on the political right here do not accept the validity of the term "trans."

AGP and the andro equivalent exists, but I agree that transing anyone is cruel punishment (although it doesn't make me too sad to see AGP losing their euphoria)

Not everyone with gender dysphoria is "trans" and not everyone who is trans had GD.
I think there is value in having a more colloquial term to refer to TIMs and TIFs.

(Btw, the first half of my comment was a joke at the obvious bait)
Given the complexity of the issue as you are highlighting it, surely you can see how just lumping a bunch of people together under a grossly oversimplified umbrella term like "trans" is problematic.
 
The words which you are basing this debate on are themselves problematic. I live in the US, many people on the political right here do not accept the validity of the term "trans."
Maybe you should take that up with the people who write dictionaries, because in the meantime I'm going to continue to speak normal, dictionary-standard English like a normal person in society, and not just make shit up like a weirdo sociology professor who has to redefine words to suit his agenda.
 
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not just make shit up like a weirdo sociology professor who has to redefine words to suit his agenda.
ah, the unbelievable irony.
words like "phat" and "crunk" are in the dictionary. dictionaries document language, they don't impose it as immutable law.
There are tens of thousands of pre-20th century words which are now archaic and no longer in use. Language is not physics.

anyhow godspeed with this debate sir, I wish you the best of luck. you're far too up your own ass for me to continue wasting my time with, though.
 
ah, the unbelievable irony.
words like "phat" and "crunk" are in the dictionary. dictionaries document language, they don't impose it as immutable law.
There are tens of thousands of pre-20th century words which are now archaic and no longer in use. Language is not physics.
Nevertheless, people cannot communicate with you if you make up your own definitions to words, in direct contradiction to the words everybody else understands and is using.
anyhow godspeed with this debate sir, I wish you the best of luck. you're far too up your own ass for me to continue wasting my time with, though.
I don't really think "speak English" is an unreasonable condition to set, but suit yourself, champ.
 
I dislike troons for being biohazards. Post-OP individuals are actively advancing the mutation of antibiotic-resistant bacteria by constantly requiring medication to keep their mutilated orifice from turning septic and killing them.

Their contagious crotch-rot exhausts medical resources and poses an objective threat to society.
 
I dislike troons for being biohazards. Post-OP individuals are actively advancing the mutation of antibiotic-resistant bacteria by constantly requiring medication to keep their mutilated orifice from turning septic and killing them.

Their contagious crotch-rot exhausts medical resources and poses an objective threat to society.

Mental illnesses should be treated, not encouraged.
Well, I'm not a doctor or anything and I'm perfectly happy for those medical arguments to be settled by the experts and researchers and doctors who actually study them, but in the meantime, why should that get in the way of me loving and respecting people? Even if it turned out that they had questionable, or outright wrong medical opinions or were making choices that potentially lead to an increased spread of disease, is that really enough that you think I should write them off as human beings?

I mean, isn't that exactly the same thing as discriminating against the unvaccinated?
 
I agree, I don't think it's right or acceptable either. Harassing or assaulting a person who identifies as transgender is both a crime and a sin against the dignity of that person as created and loved by God. It doesn't fulfill the virtue of justice or encourage that person to repentance, it just drives them away further and likely for good. In my opinion, that is a far worse sin than the original act. We can certainly express our opinions on what they are doing, I know I do, but we need to avoid letting anger or disgust for these actions ever overcome charity.

Killing someone for identifying as transgender is nothing but murder, just like killing someone for being homosexual. Plain and simple.

However, I will never respect their pronouns because it requires me to deny the objective reality that biological sex is unchangeable and also requires me to deny our specific role in God's creation as a member of that sex. That's non-negotiable and there's nothing I can do about that because these things were set by God, not man.

If they were simply nonconforming with gender norms while still acknowledging the reality of their biological sex, that would be a different situation requiring a lot more nuance and careful judgement. Gender norms can vary significantly between cultures and may not necessarily be a good or moral thing to begin with.
 
If showing basic human decency to people is "bait", there's something wrong with the fishin' hole.

"People". I think that's where we will disagree. Troons aren't people, they're lab experiments that broke containment.
 
Well, I'm not a doctor or anything and I'm perfectly happy for those medical arguments to be settled by the experts and researchers and doctors who actually study them, but in the meantime, why should that get in the way of me loving and respecting people? Even if it turned out that they had questionable, or outright wrong medical opinions or were making choices that potentially lead to an increased spread of disease, is that really enough that you think I should write them off as human beings?

I mean, isn't that exactly the same thing as discriminating against the unvaccinated?
I respect you for leveling up your ability to play devils advocate by defending troons. Couldn't do it. I don't have the stomach for it.

Would you be up for an even bigger challenge and try the same with pedos?
 
They should live the lives they want but not cry every time somebody insults them and spill their rainbow shit everywhere. I'd have a normal conversation with a troon if he/she is a decent person able to do smalltalk and has other subjects to talk about without telling me every detail about troon lifestyle and how great it is. Just not act like a fucking creep or a total snowflake it's not that hard.
 
However, I will never respect their pronouns because it requires me to deny the objective reality that biological sex is unchangeable and also requires me to deny our specific role in God's creation as a member of that sex. That's non-negotiable and there's nothing I can do about that because these things were set by God, not man.
Based Christian take in general and Jesus would approve, but as far as the pronoun thing specifically, I just see it as a matter of civility, and not a proclamation of my viewpoints, which makes things pretty easy for me. I really do respect your principled stance on it but I certainly don't envy you the task of explaining that to people you might come across in life who feel deliberately disrespected. Some of them will get it, some won't. It's just good to see people standing by their principles even when their principles aren't always convenient or easy.
Would you be up for an even bigger challenge and try the same with pedos?
Hell no, pedos want to molest children. I won't defend war criminals or serial rapists or cartel enforcers either. I'll happily defend transgendered folx though, because they just want to express a different gender identity than the one they were born into, and I think that's nobody else's business and not at all comparable to raping and shooting people.
 
I respect trannies so much I want to respectfully institutionalize them in the psychiatric containment ward, somewhere at the margins of society
Most people would simply ack them, so I consider myself merciful and compassionate.
 
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Based Christian take in general and Jesus would approve, but as far as the pronoun thing specifically, I just see it as a matter of civility, and not a proclamation of my viewpoints, which makes things pretty easy for me. I really do respect your principled stance on it but I certainly don't envy you the task of explaining that to people you might come across in life who feel deliberately disrespected. Some of them will get it, some won't. It's just good to see people standing by their principles even when their principles aren't always convenient or easy.
Agreed, it's a judgement call in those situations. You have to draw a fine line between condoning someone's sinful behavior and meeting them where they are at on the road to conversion; too harsh and you alienate them completely, too soft and you end up encouraging their behavior. I think gender-neutral pronouns like they/them are a fair compromise if you don't accept their identity but also don't want to completely offend them.

I definitely say some off-color and offensive things about them here, I won't lie and pretend I don't. I think it's a sin I need to work on but there's also an element of venting to it that makes it hard to overcome - I would never say this to someone struggling with gender identity issues in person, nor do I have hatred towards them in any way. Similarly, going off ranting and raving about how God Hates Fags or calling an active homosexual a Sodomite isn't going to convert people (not to mention it's not quite correct and very uncharitable anyways). It's best to just call them gay or homosexual depending on the context.

As people who struggle with these sins move towards conversion and repentance we can start bringing them out of that false identity, or to come to terms with the very difficult life their sexuality will require in a Christian context (chaste celibacy) but gently and always with their greatest good in mind.
 
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I respect them as much as I respect a skeletonized anorexic, or those hyper-munchie voluntary amputees. Interesting renovations, impressive dedication, but I can't help but notice nothing's been done about the cracks in the temple's foundation.
 
I'm not a doctor
You don't need to be a doctor to be able to deem someone with an obvious mental illness as mentally ill any more than you do to deem a guy with a bullet in his gut wounded.

why should that get in the way of me loving and respecting people?
It shouldn't, but neither should your love and respect blind you to the facts.

Even if it turned out that they had questionable, or outright wrong medical opinions or were making choices that potentially lead to an increased spread of disease, is that really enough that you think I should write them off as human beings?

I mean, isn't that exactly the same thing as discriminating against the unvaccinated?
The unvaccinated don't have any effect on individuals nor society. Gender ideology is a harmful pseudoreligion which has an observable negative effect on both individuals and on society. They are incomparable in terms of both scope and consequence.

I respect you for leveling up your ability to play devils advocate by defending troons. Couldn't do it. I don't have the stomach for it.

Would you be up for an even bigger challenge and try the same with pedos?
Same thing,
 
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