The Square Enix Griefing Thread

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Luminous was folded back into S-E within a month of the game's release, before any sort of longterm performance could be established. Its as likely that S-E hated the long dev times of it (and FF XV) as much as they hated the sales, most of which wouldn't have happened yet.

If their early projections for this game was that it was going to be successful, the studio would have survived. You don't fold a studio that makes a successful IP. Its closure alone is a signal that even the earliest sales figures weren't good, at all.

Tons of companies do, in fact, invest money in the hopes of long tail profit

Real estate companies do that, yes. Not video game companies. They expect to make most of their prophet in the opening weeks and months when sales are the strongest and the price is the highest. Games are sold as products. They aren't investments. Companies need to recoup costs immediately, and use game success to do things like payout bonuses. They aren't in this for the "long haul", they are in it for the short term buck. Now, for a live service game, this probably works different, but Forsaken was not a live service game. It was a limited single player experience. It really needed to be successful out of the gate.

 

[ShitLurker]

I guess this is the best place to bitch about it. I've been playing Triangle Strategy since I saw a lot of "it's really good" and so on and I'm always keen on stories with branching paths. I basically went with the simp route where I did everything that Frederika wanted expecting a quick death after siding with the jew stand-ins and getting an "ideals don't win wars" sort of ending. To my surprise, shit happened to sort itself out after getting the chief of the jews to actually show me leverage that even then is layer thin as a concept ("good on you for being aware of salt some place else, kill them", or "could have perfectly been stolen by the running jews from the Source").

Now I'm suddenly one of the 7 saints and have the full support of the sandnigger empire even though I'm keeping my jew farm and I'm not exactly converting to their retarded religion (which is another little point, why in the name of fuck would they give me the ministry of mining salt which sounds pretty goddamn important and how is nobody batting an eye at a fucking unbeliever being given such a role). And then it gets me wondering... and oh lo and behold, it's one of those games where choices are a farce since everything takes you to the same spot and then, the only decision that really matters happens at the end. It's digimon survive all over again, though at least the branching is earlier.

What a fucking crock of bullshit. I'm absolutely baffled that the same beats would happen if I keep the only living heir or if I give him out to the invading force or if I protect the jews as a show of defiance to the closest thing of an ally that I have in a moment of absolute weakness. I'll push on to finish my current playthrough since I'm already in chapter 13, but this shit killed any real desire to replay it for the other paths or the true ending and it's not like if the combat itself is all that engaging anyway.

I was expecting some proper branching that if it meant the game ends on chapter 7, so be it, go back and try again. And while I'm at it, I expected the votes to have more impact when it came to characters sticking with you or not, from what I understand, it's only relevant on the last vote and only means losing 1 character and all of the secondary circus troupe have 0 agency anyway.

I guess I should have done my homework earlier but I also didn't want to spoil myself. Any JRPG game that has actual proper balls to do branching with al of it's consequences? I've heard Vanguard Bandits does that.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Any JRPG game that has actual proper balls to do branching with al of it's consequences?

That's what irked me about TellTale, illusion of choice retroactively hurts the experience and annihilates replay value. Any game that makes it an integral aspect should do it right. I know it's multiplying their workload but either do it right or don't do it at all.

I'm kinda curious about which games do it right too. I can't really think of many.

 

[whatever I feel like]

That's what irked me about TellTale, illusion of choice retroactively hurts the experience and annihilates replay value. Any game that makes it an integral aspect should do it right. I know it's multiplying their workload but either do it right or don't do it at all.

I'm kinda curious about which games do it right too. I can't really think of many.

Alpha Protocol was technically a Sega game and an RPG? Yeah... I got nothing. But really, choice in a story-based game is dumb anyway.

 

[Soycast Guy]

If the average copy sold at 20 dollars then they made 120 million and thus more than broke even. But truth is the average copy was probably sold in the thirties or forties. The game had a decently long trail too, popping up in weekly and monthly top tens and twenties throughout the first half of the year. It will also continue selling, at a reduced rate and reduced price, for the rest of the generation.

So yeah, you can say it was bad, it was embaressing, it sold less than desired and even that it failed to double its dev costs and help offset S-E's other bombs. But no, if those are the numbers then it didn’t post a loss.

You’re forgetting that squeenix loves to blow a bunch of money on advertising.

 

[Pissmaster]

That's what irked me about TellTale, illusion of choice retroactively hurts the experience and annihilates replay value. Any game that makes it an integral aspect should do it right. I know it's multiplying their workload but either do it right or don't do it at all.

I'm kinda curious about which games do it right too. I can't really think of many.

They're so rare because why put forth the effort on making hours upon hours worth of content for a single game, when you can put all that work into a separate game, DLC, or a sequel you can sell?

 

[ShitLurker]

That's what irked me about TellTale, illusion of choice retroactively hurts the experience and annihilates replay value. Any game that makes it an integral aspect should do it right. I know it's multiplying their workload but either do it right or don't do it at all.

I'm kinda curious about which games do it right too. I can't really think of many.

Agreed, I fucking hate this shit. Saddest part is that Triangle Strategy is right that it does change the gameplay experience while you are playing, you have different fights and scenes if you keep Roland around or if you give him away and whatever random shit the game makes up to restore the status quo at the end of that, but I'm baffled with the lack of ambition to just keep going with it. If I dump Roland, make me basically become a pawn of the northeners with each mission making it clearer how much they have me by the balls once I lost any form of leverage, if I sacrifice the jews, let the sandniggers ruin me immediately and if I do send them to the sandniggers it should also translate to me just being their bitch at that point. Don't just string me along to reset the status quo for the next point where everything coalesces.

They're so rare because why put forth the effort on making hours upon hours worth of content for a single game, when you can put all that work into a separate game, DLC, or a sequel you can sell?

Leaving aside that today's gaming scene is a joke, even thinking in older games, it is kind of rare. Only genre that really goes hard on that is visual novels, which makes sense since that's the only thing that gives them flair and I may just be overly ambitious with this sort of expectation since I can see a lot of development teams going "why should we bother to add stuff most players won't experience", but hell, I remember going through all of the decision trees in Fate Stay Night (and the absolute grand majority taking poor Shirou to an early grave) and I enjoy that sort of commitment, how sometimes a bad ending decision will fuck with you for an hour or two just to pull the rug under you and with a nudge and a wink go "try again ".

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

They're so rare because why put forth the effort on making hours upon hours worth of content for a single game, when you can put all that work into a separate game, DLC, or a sequel you can sell?

Hey man, glad as hell to see you back. That is sadly true through, especially these days where development takes longer and the industry is so risk averse.

I may just be overly ambitious with this sort of expectation since I can see a lot of development teams going "why should we bother to add stuff most players won't experience"

That probably factors into it a lot, too. It's a shame.

 

[skykiii]

Okay, question:

When this topic's title says "Griefing," did it actually mean "Grieving?"

Gonna be honest oh hey Skykiii is gonna make another "this thing was already bad long before you started hating it" post! ... but yeah Squaresoft had lost their ancient holiness (IMO) before the merger ever happened. Name one good PS2 game they did.

(A voice from the backrow shouts "Final Fantasy XII!")

.... Name two good PS2 games they did!

Enix.... I want to say they lasted a little longer, but to be honest I don't recall a lot of their output being available in North America until the merge happened. I mainly remember them for the games they did with Quintet (Actraiser, the Soul Blazer trilogy, Robotrek...) and honestly outside of Dragon Quest... what did this company even make?

These days I tend to just avoid Squeenix, as I see them as basically artsy and pretentious. Back in the day that worked because economic realities and actual competition meant they sometimes had to actually make good games, but now that they basically own a monopoly on JRPGs and have all the money, they're basically.... I was gonna say "what I imagine Hideo Kojima would be if he didn't have to answer to market forces" but that's an insult to Kojima.

 

[Pissmaster]

but now that they basically own a monopoly on JRPGs and have all the money, they're basically.... I was gonna say "what I imagine Hideo Kojima would be if he didn't have to answer to market forces" but that's an insult to Kojima.

Sega owns Atlus now, and Persona and Yakuza are doing very well. Final Fantasy XVI was a flop, though largely because PlayStation 5 is flopping. There's also a perpetual deluge of assorted anime JRPGs always coming out of the likes of Nippon Ichi, Idea Factory, and such. And, I don't know if you wanna count this, but Undertale did especially well with the Japanese JRPG crowd. If anything, they're losing their grip on that whole market, and they're losing it fast. Final Fantasy hasn't been something to get excited about for nearly a quarter century now. The fact that the brand still earns attention when something new comes along is a true testament to their quality, but its been such a long time since something worthwhile came out that they're just written off as a terrible company for me by now.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Name two good PS2 games they did!

Final Fantasy X and Kingdom Hearts, arguably their sequels. FFX is a contender for best FF game.

 

[skykiii]

Final Fantasy X and Kingdom Hearts, arguably their sequels. FFX is a contender for best FF game.

Insert Spoony clips here.

Honestly, its been awhile since I tried FFX myself (I remember not liking it but that was back when dinosaurs walked the Earth). Kingdom Hearts I tried again recently and eventually got bored of. My feeling was it played like Secret of Mana in 3D... if it was slow and clunky. In fact I recall Kingdom Hearts also being an example of that gameplay problem I described in the "was PS3/XB360 the last good console gen?" topic where the gameplay is boring and takes too fucking long and you do the same repetitive shit over and over and the story should really be two hours but somehow takes five million and there's tons of little things that you can do that don't seem to affect anything (is there an actual reason to customize the Gummi ship? And why the hell is it called the Gummi ship if there's no actual Gummi bears?)

Kingdom Hearts also has another issue to me... that being that the entire "Disney" half of the series feels almost arbitrary, like you could replace it all with original content and nothing would change. It feels like Square had this original story but then were forced to include Disney stuff out of obligation.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Honestly, its been awhile since I tried FFX myself (I remember not liking it but that was back when dinosaurs walked the Earth).

It's worth playing it again via the HD remaster if you wanna give it a second chance. The music is actually a huge improvement, it's the best thing about it.

Kingdom Hearts I tried again recently and eventually got bored of.

I'm sure it doesn't hold up terribly well today, KH2 seems to be the series favorite because it is much more well refined. It did play better and everything, but I appreciate the simplicity of KH1's story.

Kingdom Hearts also has another issue to me... that being that the entire "Disney" half of the series feels almost arbitrary, like you could replace it all with original content and nothing would change. It feels like Square had this original story but then were forced to include Disney stuff out of obligation.

The original characters and settings take precedence over both Disney and Final Fantasy in the series, I think the balance is really fucked up. It's like 60% OCs, 30% Disney, and some FF content to lure you in.

 

[skykiii]

The original characters and settings take precedence over both Disney and Final Fantasy in the series, I think the balance is really fucked up. It's like 60% OCs, 30% Disney, and some FF content to lure you in.

Yeah exactly, the whole reason I played KH was I liked the idea of a Final Fantasy game with Disney characters, instead I get something else entirely.

It's sort of like Sonic X, how you watch the show because its about Sonic, except actually its about Chris Thorndyke and Sonic just happens to be in it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Yeah exactly, the whole reason I played KH was I liked the idea of a Final Fantasy game with Disney characters, instead I get something else entirely.

It's sort of like Sonic X, how you watch the show because its about Sonic, except actually its about Chris Thorndyke and Sonic just happens to be in it.

Yep, and KH3 supposedly has no FF characters in it, not even cameos I guess. That made me write it off completely, seems like Disney is pushing their weight around.

 

[Gravemind]

Radiata Stories seems pretty kino.

 

[Lurker]

Final Fantasy X and Kingdom Hearts, arguably their sequels. FFX is a contender for best FF game.

THE BOUNCER, YOU UNCULTURED SWINE

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

THE BOUNCER, YOU UNCULTURED SWINE

The only good thing about it is the narrator saying the title's name, which I heard in his voice reading your post lol

 

[whatever I feel like]

I'd just like to take the time to remind you that back in the day Enix didn't make hardly anything. They commissioned lots of stuff, including DQ, that other studios then developed. I think either ASW or CH made the old DQs, for example.

Edit: No, wait, Chunsoft did.

 

[Lurker]

FFX is a contender for best FF game.